Speaker 1: When you're ready to ride Metro, we want you to
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Speaker 1: doing our part to keep writers safe. We're cleaning before
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Speaker 1: no Metro need one. We have a few extras at Metro.
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Speaker 1: Find out more at well Notta dot com slash doing
Speaker 1: our part. My judgment, the economic consequences are so small,
Speaker 1: but the possible improvement in trade and exports and open
Speaker 1: markets from the United States, this is worthwhile doing. That's
Speaker 1: the gamble. That's the gamble to me. The biggest differences
Speaker 1: uh In the United States we have an electure for
Speaker 1: a couple of years and politicians are answerable immediately to
Speaker 1: the voters, whereas in China they can wait a long time,
Speaker 1: and you don't have a media intentionally whipping up fear
Speaker 1: and angst, some of which may be justified, was certainly
Speaker 1: not all. Gordon Chang joins this. Gordon is an author
Speaker 1: and calumnist, an authority on Asian affairs, and a realist.
Speaker 1: You can find him at Gordon g Chang, and he's
Speaker 1: also calumnist at The Daily Beast. Gordon welcome, How are you, sir?
Speaker 1: I'm fine, thank you, and thank you so much. It's
Speaker 1: our pleasure. Why is the Trump administration willing to endure
Speaker 1: the pain of tariffs, the controversy, etcetera. What is the goal? Well,
Speaker 1: there are a number of goals. You know, President Trump
Speaker 1: talks about evening out the trade deficit, but also I've
Speaker 1: got to remember that the tariffs and question are imposed
Speaker 1: under Section three or one of the Trade Act of
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four. These are remedies for the theft of
Speaker 1: US intellectual property, and China each year steals somewhere between
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty to six hundred billion dollars of
Speaker 1: US i P, probably in the speed of four hundred
Speaker 1: billion dollar range. This is a grievous moon to the
Speaker 1: American economy and we've got to stop it. So Um,
Speaker 1: that's why we have what people call a trade war.
Speaker 1: And by the way, the Chinese have been waging this
Speaker 1: trade war against the US for decades. We've been oblivious, um,
Speaker 1: and fortunately we have a president who is now willing
Speaker 1: to take the Chinese. On previous presidents have not been. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it reminds me it's at the economic version of when
Speaker 1: we were attacked by al Qaeda and hey, look, they've
Speaker 1: been at war with us for decades. We just ignored
Speaker 1: the fact that they were at war with us. Same
Speaker 1: thing with this trade war. China has been in a
Speaker 1: trade war and and and kicking our ass for years
Speaker 1: and now we're finally responding. Yes, So that's that's absolutely
Speaker 1: true when you look at the persistent theft of US
Speaker 1: intellectual property, also just violations of China's World Trade Organization
Speaker 1: obligations to the United States under sees and paying the
Speaker 1: current ruler um. Both ip theft and trade violations have
Speaker 1: gotten worse, and obviously something has to be done about it.
Speaker 1: And we can't think that we can get out of
Speaker 1: decades of miss guy to trade policy without costs. This
Speaker 1: will cost the American people, but it's a cost that
Speaker 1: we will have to bear. If we don't bear this cost,
Speaker 1: we're not going to have an economy of the future.
Speaker 1: We're not going to have a society of the future.
Speaker 1: We're gonna end up exporting primary products in China and
Speaker 1: buying back manufactured goods. And by the way, some people
Speaker 1: say that that's a badge of colonialism. So I don't
Speaker 1: want to be a colony of China, Gordon. Chang is
Speaker 1: on the line, Gordon. The Chinese economy has has relied
Speaker 1: substantially on stealing technology, very strong arm tactics, tariffs, that
Speaker 1: sort of thing for a long time. How far do
Speaker 1: you think that Trump administration can push them? Um? How
Speaker 1: how far can she go without causing such a shock
Speaker 1: to his entire system that, you know, the Communist Party collapses.
Speaker 1: I think China is in a very difficult position. Um.
Speaker 1: We've got to remember that last year, China's merchandise trade
Speaker 1: surplus with the US accounted for our hundred and nine
Speaker 1: point six percent of its overall merchandise surplus. That shows
Speaker 1: amazing dependence on us. Also, we've got the bigger economy,
Speaker 1: We've got economy that in reality is growing faster, and
Speaker 1: we're just not dependent on selling things to China, as
Speaker 1: the trade statistics show. Um. Siege and Pain doesn't face
Speaker 1: elections every um four years, but he in effect pass
Speaker 1: on election every day because he's held responsible for this
Speaker 1: trade war. He's held responsible for who lost America. And
Speaker 1: the reason why I think he withdrew the commitments that
Speaker 1: he had previously made to the United States for trade
Speaker 1: was essentially because he realized that he does not have
Speaker 1: the power to exert his will on other people in
Speaker 1: the Chinese political system. I think China is in real
Speaker 1: trouble right now, especially because you know, trade surplus countries
Speaker 1: just generally don't win trade wars. China is a surplus
Speaker 1: country where the deficit country we hold almost all the
Speaker 1: high cards. Interesting. Yeah, so back to my question, you know,
Speaker 1: will will they put up with being made to fundamentally
Speaker 1: change the way they deal with foreign investment and foreign
Speaker 1: trade or do we just get, you know, an incremental
Speaker 1: victory and say, well it's better. Well, I think that
Speaker 1: right now, Sieging paying is pursuing this nationalist narrative going
Speaker 1: back to the Opium War, you know, basically nineteenth century
Speaker 1: humiliation of China, and that makes us it very hard
Speaker 1: for him to adjust. UM. So I don't know if
Speaker 1: he can actually come to a trade deal. I think
Speaker 1: we're going to see a long term struggle with China UM,
Speaker 1: which will be obvious with increased tariffs and were Eventually
Speaker 1: we're going to see the two economies disengaged from each other.
Speaker 1: And I think actually that's quite a good thing for us,
Speaker 1: because long term UM disengagement is the only policy that
Speaker 1: has not failed. So UM China is going to be
Speaker 1: is going to go through. You know, you very well
Speaker 1: may not survive. The Communist Party may not survive this UM,
Speaker 1: but you know, we don't have a choice. We've got
Speaker 1: to defend ourselves, whatever the consequences are for Beijing. Gordon
Speaker 1: g Chang is the author of Losing South Korea, booklet
Speaker 1: released by Encounter Books in March of this year. Author
Speaker 1: and columnist at Gordon g Chang and at The Daily
Speaker 1: Beast Gordon, it's always enlightening. Thanks very much. Oh, thank
Speaker 1: you so much. I really appreciate being on your air.
Speaker 1: Good to talk to you. Thanks. Oh yeah, yeah, he's
Speaker 1: he's a nice saw mom does mean he likes being
Speaker 1: on our show. There's a lot of nice people out
Speaker 1: there that don't want to be on our show, granted
Speaker 1: most of them. So you got you got, Gordon. They're
Speaker 1: saying that, indeed, if we take it to the wall
Speaker 1: and hold our ground, this could be crippling for g
Speaker 1: and the Chinese Party. Did everybody follow that whole trade surplus,
Speaker 1: trade deficit, thing they need to sell to the United States.
Speaker 1: We're their biggest, you know, customer. We stopped showing up
Speaker 1: to their soda shops. Soda shop, what is this nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty Uh? What do you color? Where you get the
Speaker 1: like the jamba juice, that's a smoothie. We stopped showing
Speaker 1: up and valuing the vape pens because we buy a
Speaker 1: hell of a lot of ape pens. They go out
Speaker 1: of business. On the other hand, we run the smoothie shop.
Speaker 1: They only stopped by once a month. That's fine, they
Speaker 1: stopped coming. We'll be disappointed. We'll lose a little business.
Speaker 1: But so that's the relationship. But I tell it, he
Speaker 1: was very bold about how weak they are. I mostly
Speaker 1: agree with them, but we'll have to see. I'm still
Speaker 1: quite optimistic that we reach a good deal. But man,
Speaker 1: asking a totalitarian communist regime to stop commying on foreign
Speaker 1: companies and investors, that's that's a big gask. We shall
Speaker 1: see when you're ready to ride Metro, we want you
Speaker 1: to know we're ready for you. Here are just a
Speaker 1: few of the people at Metro to tell you how
Speaker 1: we're doing our part to keep writers safe. Were cleaning
Speaker 1: like never before. Half to the great clean you've found
Speaker 1: hand sound of sounds of statis all over the Metro.
Speaker 1: No mask, no Metro need one. We have a few
Speaker 1: extras at Metro. We're doing our part to keep the
Speaker 1: DC area moving. Find out more at well mata dot
Speaker 1: com slash doing our part.