Speaker 1: Hey there, I'm Dani Schwartz. This is Popcorn Book Club
Speaker 1: and this week we are continuing our discussion of Angie
Speaker 1: Thomas's novel The Hate You Give. As always, I'm joined
Speaker 1: by Jennifer Wright, Cromadanqua, Tian Tran, and Melissa Hunter. This
Speaker 1: is part two of our discussion, but just to catch
Speaker 1: you up super quick, the book follows sixteen year old
Speaker 1: Star Carter, a young black woman who sees her best
Speaker 1: friend shot and killed by police in front of her
Speaker 1: during a routine traffic stop. Now, we recorded this discussion
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, and I want to say that
Speaker 1: it's heartbreaking that this work of fiction fromen is so
Speaker 1: immediately relevant in our world, and that it's so relevant
Speaker 1: again right now this week, and it shouldn't be. But
Speaker 1: as long as this I am proud to be having
Speaker 1: this discussion alongside these amazing women. And just to make
Speaker 1: it very clear, Popcorn Book Club says black lives matter.
Speaker 1: So last week, Starr had just gone to the police
Speaker 1: station to give her testimony on what had happened, and
Speaker 1: Karama picks it up from there. She goes to Khalil's funeral,
Speaker 1: where she is reminded of the funeral for Natasha and
Speaker 1: how they both seem like mannekins and their coffins and
Speaker 1: they don't have the life in them that they had
Speaker 1: in life. And there's a lot of talk about Khalil's
Speaker 1: dimples and how in that coffin he doesn't have those. Uh.
Speaker 1: And at the funeral, uh, the king lords come, led
Speaker 1: by King and they leave a gray bandana on his body,
Speaker 1: which is a sign that you are a member of
Speaker 1: the king Lords, because gray is one of the king
Speaker 1: lord colors and uh. Ms Rosalie, who is Kail's grandma,
Speaker 1: freaks out understandably, so grabs the bandana, throws it at
Speaker 1: King and tells them to get out. And Ayisha Uh.
Speaker 1: Then Ayisha, who is Seven's mom and uh and Kenya's
Speaker 1: mom then says, oh, like, why are you being such
Speaker 1: a bit basically and we offered to pay for this funeral,
Speaker 1: and then Mrs Rosalie calls her a whore, which is
Speaker 1: not gracious, But no one in this instance is being gracious,
Speaker 1: and I think Ms. Rosalie has the most reason not
Speaker 1: to be at this point. Uh. And then that's when
Speaker 1: we sort of find out a little bit more about
Speaker 1: Aisha and Mav and find out that Maverick, who is
Speaker 1: both seven and stars father, did hire her as a
Speaker 1: sex worker and that is how seven was conceived. So
Speaker 1: and it was after a night that he fought with Lisa,
Speaker 1: So he was with Lisa first and then he ends
Speaker 1: up involved with Aisha for one night and then we
Speaker 1: get seven. So it's really interesting we find out more
Speaker 1: about this sort of I use the term blended family
Speaker 1: because I feel like people don't use that term for
Speaker 1: black people very often, and I think that when similar
Speaker 1: instances happen to non black families, people are like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're a blended family. We're all sorts of like click dick,
Speaker 1: And it's not something that is ideal and nobody had
Speaker 1: planned it, but they are a family and they do
Speaker 1: love each other a lot, and seven is treated like
Speaker 1: a biological son by Lisa, and later in the book
Speaker 1: we find out that he tells people that she's his
Speaker 1: mom at school in particular, and some of that is
Speaker 1: from shame, some of that is from a love of her,
Speaker 1: shame of his actual mother but or not actual biological mother.
Speaker 1: And uh so then we have this funeral, and I
Speaker 1: think right before the funeral, there is an incident with
Speaker 1: a basketball game. They're playing a pickup basketball game and
Speaker 1: it's Maya and Haley and Star and they're playing against
Speaker 1: three boys, including Chris, And when Chris steals the ball
Speaker 1: from Star, Haley makes a snide comment and says, why
Speaker 1: don't you just treat the ball like gets fried chicken?
Speaker 1: And then Star gets reasonably and understandably upset, and Haley
Speaker 1: gets upset also that she is being accused of being
Speaker 1: a racist fucking Haley. Yeah, I think we should talk
Speaker 1: about Haley and Maya here. Haley. Obviously, as we go on,
Speaker 1: the dynamics there become more complicated. But um, I think
Speaker 1: that this is the first real instance where we see like,
Speaker 1: oh ships off with Haley a little bit. Uh, we
Speaker 1: did see it a little bit earlier in the very beginning,
Speaker 1: because the party happens at the end of spring break.
Speaker 1: It's the Saturday at the end of spring break, and
Speaker 1: then when they get back to school on Monday. Uh,
Speaker 1: there is a line where Maya says, oh, Haley has
Speaker 1: been texting me all spring break, and Stars like the funk,
Speaker 1: why hasn't Haley texted me once all spring break? So
Speaker 1: there's definitely some tension there, and uh, do you all
Speaker 1: want to talk about follow her on Tumblr. It truly
Speaker 1: is a bit and like a dirty unfollowed. It's not
Speaker 1: like she explicitly said I'm gonna follow you because I
Speaker 1: have difficulty with the content you're posting, and there was
Speaker 1: no communication about it. It It was just like I'm gonna unfollow. No,
Speaker 1: it's like a cowardly unfollowed, super cowardly, very teenage mean
Speaker 1: girl I follow. It also feels like it treats the
Speaker 1: content that she's posting in such an incredibly dismissive way
Speaker 1: to a picture of that Till being murdered, as though,
Speaker 1: like why did you post garbage on your tuggeler? I
Speaker 1: don't like seeing that, That's what I don't want to
Speaker 1: look at that. And it's like no one wanted to
Speaker 1: look at that, And that's why Emmett Till's mother did that.
Speaker 1: She specifically had an open casket funeral because she said,
Speaker 1: I want them to see what they did to my
Speaker 1: little boy. He was fourteen years old when he died,
Speaker 1: and he was accused of of inappropriate touching with a
Speaker 1: white woman who was twenty one and working in a store,
Speaker 1: Like that doesn't make any sense, and that white woman
Speaker 1: admitted later that she lied about what happened. It was
Speaker 1: discovered in Like Why seventeen, the year that this book
Speaker 1: came out, that Caroline Bryant, the woman who was the
Speaker 1: alleged victim in the case, that not in the case,
Speaker 1: but that lad people to murder Emmett Till, lied about it.
Speaker 1: And she has faced no repercussions, no consequences, and she
Speaker 1: is still alive. She's still walking this earth, probably feeling
Speaker 1: at least moderately guilty, I hope. But just like that
Speaker 1: is a love of the oddest things about all the
Speaker 1: pictures from that time. They're all black and white, and
Speaker 1: I think, at least for me it it allows me
Speaker 1: to live in this kind of comfortable idea that all
Speaker 1: this happened a long time ago. And then you realize,
Speaker 1: like all those people are still voting, those people are
Speaker 1: like seven right now. Those people screaming as the school's
Speaker 1: segregate and holding up just horrible signs, when people trying
Speaker 1: to set the lunch counters, they're all still around. That
Speaker 1: was those were people, her grandparents, was no one. It
Speaker 1: was like a thing that I realized that I read
Speaker 1: that the Mala Hockey police officer who dismissed that Jeffrey Dahmer,
Speaker 1: basically a teenage a fourteen year old from Laos escaped
Speaker 1: from Jeffrey Dahmer naked and drugged, and a black girl
Speaker 1: like a teenager called the cops to be like clearly
Speaker 1: the situation, and her mother, grandmother, I'm not there, corroborated
Speaker 1: the story. But Jeffrey Dahmer, the only white man in
Speaker 1: this situation, was like, ha ha, no, it's just a misunderstanding.
Speaker 1: He's my boyfriend. He's a little drunk, and completely dismissed
Speaker 1: the multiple people of color who are like, no, there
Speaker 1: is a fucked up situation happening. They let that boy
Speaker 1: go back into his room and he was murdered, and
Speaker 1: then the ten more people were murdered by Jeffrey Dahmer,
Speaker 1: and that police officer who didn't respond, who like even
Speaker 1: noted that Jeffrey Dahmer's apartment smelled like flesh like like
Speaker 1: like weird smell. He became the head of the police
Speaker 1: union and he retired like with a thumbs up, like
Speaker 1: these people are just like okay, whatever, how do you
Speaker 1: live with yourself? That's it? If you found out that
Speaker 1: that that that case, that that kid was then murdered
Speaker 1: and and and cannibalized, and then multiple more people were murdered.
Speaker 1: How do you then go another few decades as a
Speaker 1: police I couldn't do it. I mean I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: been a police officer in the first place. I just
Speaker 1: don't have the constitution. I'm very jumpy um and some
Speaker 1: people I just don't know. I don't have the constitution.
Speaker 1: And I think that we need to look at some
Speaker 1: of the things that are happening, because it's like we
Speaker 1: had mentioned earlier, he was so trigger happy when fifteen
Speaker 1: when this happened, And it's like, if you are so
Speaker 1: afraid of somebody leaning into a vehicle and your first
Speaker 1: instinct isn't to de escalate the situation, to ask somebody
Speaker 1: to step back from the vehicle, any of that. Like, yes,
Speaker 1: you told him not to move already, I understand that.
Speaker 1: But I work with young people. They need things several times.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you need to tell them multiple times, like I
Speaker 1: said this, I said that, And that's the thing. He
Speaker 1: is a young person. And if you're that trigger nappy
Speaker 1: and you're that jumpy, you need another job. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: certainly seems like a starr was able to remember all
Speaker 1: of her track thing as and someone who got a
Speaker 1: speech one time from her dad. Uh. It seems like
Speaker 1: one fifteen was not able to remember any training that
Speaker 1: he presumably should have. Well, I think the problem and
Speaker 1: they're not getting training to to de escalate situations. That's
Speaker 1: part of it. But let's talk about friends. I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: the one it ties back in really well because she's
Speaker 1: at Haley's. I might be skipping ahead of story, but
Speaker 1: thematically it fits in. She's at Haley's when we're watching
Speaker 1: an interview about Maya. Sorry, Maya's with Haley next to her,
Speaker 1: like this is sort of the first time they've hung
Speaker 1: out in a long time. Uh, And they are channel
Speaker 1: stiffing and they come across an interview and I think
Speaker 1: this is the interview where one fifteen dad he's a
Speaker 1: good boy and he was just trying his best, like
Speaker 1: the most, like humanizing, like, good old boy, don't ruin
Speaker 1: this sweet, non racist boy's life. The dad is trying
Speaker 1: to say and and he says he can't even go
Speaker 1: to the store for a gallon of milk, which reminded
Speaker 1: me very much a brock Turner's case where his dad
Speaker 1: was like, he can't eat a steak and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: but you've traumatize someone for life. He can't enjoy his
Speaker 1: favorite food. Haley used to indicate that his happiness is
Speaker 1: as important as this other man's life, which is And
Speaker 1: Haley's response is like, Oh, that's so sad for that
Speaker 1: she at that moment, she truly did matter at that moment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's so like interesting, and Angie's just the
Speaker 1: best to make Hayley, you know, this white woman who's
Speaker 1: his friend, this white this white teenager who's this friend. Uh,
Speaker 1: And to show that like friendship is not enough, Like
Speaker 1: I think we're having so many conversations about ally ship
Speaker 1: and what friendship is and what like being actually anti
Speaker 1: racist is. And to have Ali or Haley as this
Speaker 1: proxy for what I think a lot of non black
Speaker 1: folks and white folks can sometimes fall into the trap
Speaker 1: of of like saying a thing and not thinking that
Speaker 1: it's offensive or that it like puts that it's something racist.
Speaker 1: And I also think it's interesting that Maya is Asian
Speaker 1: American because her growth in this story is important and
Speaker 1: interesting too, because in so many ways there's a lot
Speaker 1: of anti blackness in the Asian American community, and she's
Speaker 1: complicit at the beginning of this. And so she's absolutely
Speaker 1: complicit in the beginning of this and doesn't stand up
Speaker 1: to Haley and is happy following. And so that is
Speaker 1: also a very interesting growth in their friendship as well,
Speaker 1: to have the three of them kind of navigating this together.
Speaker 1: I actually have a quote that I highlighted in uh
Speaker 1: the kindle version of the book. I have both the
Speaker 1: kindle version and the physical version, and it's from that
Speaker 1: scene because after Haley storms out after they get into
Speaker 1: an argument about how she Blue loves matters this moment.
Speaker 1: Maya admits that there was a moment a couple of
Speaker 1: years prior when they were like freshman in high school,
Speaker 1: when Haley said something racist to her and she asked her.
Speaker 1: It was after Thanksgiving and she said, oh, my grandma
Speaker 1: came from China, And Haley asked, did you guys eat
Speaker 1: a cat? Because they're Chinese, which, first of all, I
Speaker 1: don't even think is the correct animal stereotype, Like I
Speaker 1: just don't um. And then she's a dumb rasist, so
Speaker 1: she's an inaccurate like that just really gets if you're
Speaker 1: gonna be hateful, do it right. But do your research
Speaker 1: read Racist Weekly. Well, and then Star it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't really remember this, And Maya says, well, you
Speaker 1: were there, and Starr says, what did I say? Maya responds, nothing,
Speaker 1: You had this look on your face like you couldn't
Speaker 1: believe she said that. She claimed it was a joke
Speaker 1: and laughed. I laughed, and then you laughed, and then
Speaker 1: I wrote there's a complicity that happens when you try
Speaker 1: to belong in a world that's not your own, instead
Speaker 1: of realizing that standing out is your greatest strength. Because
Speaker 1: they're all trying to make it at Williamson and they're like,
Speaker 1: if we just make the white people feel like we'd cool,
Speaker 1: then will be okay. And who is that serving at
Speaker 1: the end of the day. Not you. It's serving people
Speaker 1: who are contributing to a system that's going to then
Speaker 1: affect people later when they're applying for jobs and when
Speaker 1: the things actually mad, or when they're the cops and
Speaker 1: they see somebody and they're like, oh, they were these
Speaker 1: kind of sneakers, they were this kind of clothes, They're
Speaker 1: a threat. Yeah. I loved the journey of the two
Speaker 1: of them together, of Maya and Star and Maya's growth
Speaker 1: in it, and I saw Haley represents I mean the
Speaker 1: ultimate like high school mean girl and two that I
Speaker 1: have experienced a lot in high school, but not you know,
Speaker 1: it was not an attack on my race because I
Speaker 1: am a white person. They're just like mean girls everywhere.
Speaker 1: But I do think the what I loved about the
Speaker 1: Haley character, I think, as you were saying, Tianna, is
Speaker 1: that like it does feel so representative of a type
Speaker 1: of white person that is trying to trying to be
Speaker 1: an ally or maybe isn't. And what's the worst thing
Speaker 1: that you can do? Like if you're if you're racist,
Speaker 1: it's equally bad to be called a racist that she
Speaker 1: is demanding in that moment when Starr says that's racist
Speaker 1: what you said? She's like, how dare you call me
Speaker 1: a race? Like you need to apologize for calling me racist?
Speaker 1: And that's like we both need to apologize. I'll apologize
Speaker 1: for this if you've apologize for calling me racist. And
Speaker 1: I feel like it was I loved how when star
Speaker 1: Let's Hayley go, it just felt like the last burden
Speaker 1: of of that she's letting go of this um version
Speaker 1: of star that was allowing people like that into her life.
Speaker 1: I think that doesn't have much, but she doesn't have
Speaker 1: the audacity, like how yes someone if they say you
Speaker 1: said a racist thing to me, it's like, well, you
Speaker 1: apologize first, and then I'll do it. And then even
Speaker 1: later she also goes you apology, goes you apologize first,
Speaker 1: and my mom died too, so she does mention that
Speaker 1: her mom said. She's like, are you upset because your
Speaker 1: friend got shot? And like it's that time of year,
Speaker 1: And even when she does I'm putting air quotes around
Speaker 1: this again, apology drives. Later she's like, I'm sorry that
Speaker 1: I if I hurt you. Yeah, I'm sorry that your
Speaker 1: feelings got hurt? How did your feelings get hurt? And
Speaker 1: she's like, I'm sorry you reacted this way. Can you
Speaker 1: see Haley? Haley is like a tiny Karen in training,
Speaker 1: Like I don't mean, but she is, and you can
Speaker 1: like the video she would be in a viral video,
Speaker 1: Haley is not wearing a mask right now, and she's
Speaker 1: an anti fax er and she's yelling at grocery stork
Speaker 1: clerks anyway, and she's the one who names her daughter
Speaker 1: like Mikhaela with like an e and an eye and
Speaker 1: a g N and why in an age? And then
Speaker 1: it's like why are black names weird? Which is the
Speaker 1: thing that Chris well. But it wasn't just Haley, it
Speaker 1: was the whole school, right Yeah. I mean I think
Speaker 1: Haley really stands out as an example of someone who
Speaker 1: is entirely out of earth their privilege and um, just
Speaker 1: wildly racist at every turn. But after um the protests
Speaker 1: started erupting and the school decides that they're going to
Speaker 1: do a walkout to protest his death. I had this
Speaker 1: moment where I was like, Oh, that's that's so good.
Speaker 1: There there's such a tiny activists and then UM start
Speaker 1: immediately started getting other texts being like good we get
Speaker 1: a free day off, Like great, we're not going to
Speaker 1: school today. I love to skip class. Um, do you
Speaker 1: all remember who started the walkout? And so this is
Speaker 1: a this is a household issue. I do want to
Speaker 1: talk for a second about the film and casting because
Speaker 1: something I found really interesting. UM, for those of you
Speaker 1: who are unfamiliar with the term colorism, it is a
Speaker 1: sort of horizontal prejudice that happens in communities of color,
Speaker 1: where people who are considered more I have, who have
Speaker 1: more proximity to whiteness have more privilege, and so I
Speaker 1: think it's really important to talk about the fact that
Speaker 1: a man less Stundberg is half white. They are a
Speaker 1: person of color and visibly coded as black, but they
Speaker 1: are very light skinned, and I thought it was really
Speaker 1: interesting how they were the most light skinned person in
Speaker 1: the in the cast who was black. But I also
Speaker 1: thought it was interesting that Mav was very dark skinned
Speaker 1: and Carlos, played by Academy Award winner Common, was also
Speaker 1: very light skinned, and I wonder if that had anything
Speaker 1: to do with the tension between Mav and Carlos. Also um,
Speaker 1: and then I think it's also important to talk about
Speaker 1: the fact that, uh, the woman who plays Maya whose
Speaker 1: name I wrote down, Megan Lawless, Yes, Megan Lawless, is
Speaker 1: also uh she's a mixed race person. And kJ Appa,
Speaker 1: who plays Archie on Riverdale, a show that we've mentioned
Speaker 1: on this podcast previously and plays Chris in the in
Speaker 1: the show, is also a mixed race person, which a
Speaker 1: lot of people I think don't know. Um. He is
Speaker 1: a quarter Maori and his dad is a chief in
Speaker 1: the Maori tradition, which um. I think it's interesting how
Speaker 1: all of these people are mixed race but are coded
Speaker 1: in different ways. So we look at Chris, we're supposed
Speaker 1: to say Chris is white, but also he has this
Speaker 1: indigenous community that he is a part of, and he
Speaker 1: and kJ Appa has never distanced himself from this community
Speaker 1: and is very open about it and has been since
Speaker 1: the beginning of his career in New Zealand. UM And
Speaker 1: obviously Amana Stenberg is very open about fighting for black rights,
Speaker 1: and they're very open about black power and fighting for
Speaker 1: equality for black people. And uh, Megan Lawless, I don't
Speaker 1: know as much, but I know that in an interview
Speaker 1: she said that she's felt that she's had to hide
Speaker 1: her Chinese side at times and had to hide her
Speaker 1: white side at times, and I did feel like having
Speaker 1: her be mixed race kind of took some of the
Speaker 1: air out of the sales of the Maya Story, and
Speaker 1: they didn't explore that more, and she wasn't really They
Speaker 1: never mentioned her last name, they never mentioned anything about
Speaker 1: her family. I think if you didn't didn't read the book,
Speaker 1: I mean visually, that you might not have been able
Speaker 1: to gauge that. Yeah, if you didn't read the book,
Speaker 1: you'd be like, Wow, it's cool that they gave her
Speaker 1: a diverse friend and I'm like, no, that's intentional. It's
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be a big part of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was interesting that they cut that out because you
Speaker 1: only see Maya not getting it, and then you see
Speaker 1: her at the end with Chris and Star when everything
Speaker 1: is like all pals ready to go um, and I
Speaker 1: was like, no, movie, don't. Yeah, it's like we missed
Speaker 1: every second of growth in may We missed their packed
Speaker 1: to stick together, which I thought was super important. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think that we do have those moments as
Speaker 1: people of color, and I mean it's real, and even
Speaker 1: if you were not of the same color, of the
Speaker 1: same community, within your color, it's like when we are
Speaker 1: in primarily white spaces where like I got you, I
Speaker 1: see you, I'm here to stick up for you. I
Speaker 1: went to Cachella with a large group of people one
Speaker 1: time and only one other person was a person of color,
Speaker 1: and I felt super left out of everything that was
Speaker 1: happening with my group and they were exceedingly rude to
Speaker 1: me in a lot of instances, and the only other
Speaker 1: person of color in the group was the one who
Speaker 1: was like there for me at every turn. And I
Speaker 1: saw that and I recognized that, and it was very
Speaker 1: if there was a kinship there where he was like, no,
Speaker 1: I see you, and I see what they're doing to you.
Speaker 1: And neither of us wanted to be like, hey, you
Speaker 1: guys are fucked up. And there wasn't anything we could
Speaker 1: point to specifically that was like, ah, you called Karama
Speaker 1: the N word. But there was something there and he
Speaker 1: saw it. He made sure I was included at every
Speaker 1: turn when everyone was trying you know, Yeahma, we gotta go.
Speaker 1: Then this book club is going to Coachello when things
Speaker 1: can happen again. Absolutely, it's very hot there though I
Speaker 1: don't know if you don't want to know, it sounds terrible,
Speaker 1: but I've got a lot of Palusa and stay at
Speaker 1: my parents house. Great, okay, awesome. You promised me that
Speaker 1: I could come and visit your parents, So I'm taking
Speaker 1: you up my mom and dad. They I mean, my
Speaker 1: parents say they listened to this podcast. Let's call their
Speaker 1: bluff if you listen to this. Uh. I hope, I
Speaker 1: hope Karama's coming and everyone's coming to come to l
Speaker 1: of Palusa. I can't wait. Put us up for free.
Speaker 1: Schwartz is this is popcorn book Club we'll be right
Speaker 1: back after this quick break. Okay, we're back with Popcorn
Speaker 1: Book Club a moment before we move on. Um. I
Speaker 1: love in this part that Star lies about period cramps
Speaker 1: to get picked up by uncle, because I'm just like, again,
Speaker 1: you are reminded that these are teenagers. They're like so young,
Speaker 1: and like, how many of us have lied about period cramps?
Speaker 1: I have lied about about what? Oh, I certainly did.
Speaker 1: I also do what I felt like. Another sweet detail
Speaker 1: about that to me was you could see how Carlos
Speaker 1: is this father figure, Like if it was not a
Speaker 1: father figure, Like, could you imagine at sixteen telling anyone
Speaker 1: but your mom and dad even that you have period
Speaker 1: cramps or like you know, or any man, any other
Speaker 1: man besides your father. So I felt like there was
Speaker 1: that sweet intimacy. And obviously Carlos knows that she's like
Speaker 1: full of it, but I like that detail. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: will say I did tell my technical theater and action
Speaker 1: teacher in college that I had period cramps because I
Speaker 1: did not want to go to class. I was not lying,
Speaker 1: but I was like, I can't operate a saw. I
Speaker 1: just don't think that you should trust me with the saw.
Speaker 1: And he was like stay home, never talked to me
Speaker 1: about I think. Sorry, back to the relationship with Carlos,
Speaker 1: I love that DeVante subplot when he was staying with
Speaker 1: Carlos because we did sort of see we we got
Speaker 1: Carlos reconciling and growing with this idea of what it
Speaker 1: meant to leave the community, but what it meant to
Speaker 1: them help and contribute. And I liked him feeling like
Speaker 1: he's responsible for Davante and and helping him along and
Speaker 1: and really, yeah, it is a nuanced and complicated issue
Speaker 1: about like whether you leave or whether you stay, and
Speaker 1: I think it's one that doesn't have a single answer.
Speaker 1: As as seen by in the movie, they stay in
Speaker 1: the community, and in the book they moved to a
Speaker 1: place that sort of a compromise is between uh, the
Speaker 1: gated community that Carlos lives in and and Garden Heights.
Speaker 1: They sort of just end up living in a a
Speaker 1: more diverse neighborhood. It's a little bit out of town. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we should talk about the Vante plot as well, because yes,
Speaker 1: I want to say something about DeVante really quickly. I
Speaker 1: missed that he was kind of the only character that
Speaker 1: really called Chris out on anything. Um and I feel
Speaker 1: like there is no addressing of the fact that Chris
Speaker 1: is to use a term that Davante used a wigger
Speaker 1: like he very much, a term that I feel like
Speaker 1: should come back in vogue. I feel like I'm going
Speaker 1: to say that that very That's not a word I'm
Speaker 1: comfortable using. It's a different letter word. I am not
Speaker 1: at all trying to trick you. I've never tried to
Speaker 1: trick you into saying the N word before, and I
Speaker 1: won't do it today. I don't want you to say it,
Speaker 1: which you don't. I think it's very clear. I can
Speaker 1: say now here and now Dani Schwartz does not say
Speaker 1: the N word. Your face is hilarious. But I think
Speaker 1: that there are moments that he has in the book
Speaker 1: where he like asks, He's like, Okay, so wait, you
Speaker 1: guys were just like saying stuff about white people. So
Speaker 1: can I ask why you guys have like weird names?
Speaker 1: Which is a huge trigger for me, as I have
Speaker 1: an atypical for American society name, and I'm just like,
Speaker 1: why would you ask that? And most people don't know
Speaker 1: what their names mean, and I just think it's really
Speaker 1: interesting that people who have names that aren't Susan or
Speaker 1: Sarah or Rebecca or any number of like quote unquote
Speaker 1: regular names that have been very normalized in American society
Speaker 1: are expected to be able to answer questions about their
Speaker 1: names all the time. And they do have very intentional
Speaker 1: names in terms of Maverick gave them intentional names, and
Speaker 1: I think that Andrew Thomas does a really great job
Speaker 1: of choosing intentional names. Like the name Maverick is I think,
Speaker 1: very on purpose. But like, do all of you know
Speaker 1: what your name is? My parents just chose it because
Speaker 1: they liked it. Well. Fun fact, your name means arbiter, Dana, yeah,
Speaker 1: or God is my judge? Oh my god? Did you
Speaker 1: look at all our names? I did. I was prepared
Speaker 1: for this conversation. Melissa, your name means bumblebee. It's also
Speaker 1: the Greek nymph that taught man the use of honey
Speaker 1: because it's very also my grandma's room. But that's my things.
Speaker 1: Like people get named after people, I was named after someone.
Speaker 1: I was named after my dad's aunt. That's why my
Speaker 1: name is what it is. Jennifer, your name means white,
Speaker 1: So I'm sorry your name is white, right it was
Speaker 1: supposed to be. And then my parents changed it, which
Speaker 1: also means about two days before I was born because
Speaker 1: they thought it would be too weird. So that's the
Speaker 1: story behind my name. And Tian. I believe your name
Speaker 1: means fairy, but it was from a website that was
Speaker 1: not explicitly Vietnamese, so I only trust them as far
Speaker 1: as I can throw them. So my my full Vietnamese
Speaker 1: name is actually hunt Ian and it's it's it together
Speaker 1: means happy fairy, which is very appropriate for this. The
Speaker 1: dance that the listeners are missing is crucial. I think
Speaker 1: it is so important culturally. That also, so many, like
Speaker 1: white names are just made up. Like Shakespeare just made
Speaker 1: up the name Jessica, by the way, he just made
Speaker 1: up a sound, and so like people, Yeah, that is
Speaker 1: what that is, crazy, like name, you know, like every
Speaker 1: name is just an arbitrary sound. Every name is made up.
Speaker 1: People ask me regularly is your name made up? Which
Speaker 1: I just think the rudest question, incredibly rude. Karama. I
Speaker 1: feel safe. I feel safe asking this since we've all
Speaker 1: talked about our names. So what can you tell us
Speaker 1: about your name? Well, I was named after my dad's aunt,
Speaker 1: who took care of him after his mom died. When
Speaker 1: he was seventeen. So in essence, I'm like named after
Speaker 1: my grand grandma, but it doesn't mean anything in the
Speaker 1: culture where I come from. It's just a family name.
Speaker 1: The time that I felt the most scene in my
Speaker 1: life was when I was living in Ghana and I
Speaker 1: had a teacher who was like, oh, your name's Karama.
Speaker 1: You're a Chim which is the ethnic group that I
Speaker 1: come from there. And I was like, you see me,
Speaker 1: you know me. It's not a common name in Ghana either.
Speaker 1: That's why I was like, oh, man, even here, I'm
Speaker 1: a weirdo. Um. But in Arabic, apparently people have told
Speaker 1: me this, it means dignity and generosity. If you are
Speaker 1: a listener who speaks Arabic and I am wrong, please
Speaker 1: feel free to at me on Twitter and on me.
Speaker 1: All right, So back to the book. Um, we were
Speaker 1: going to talk about the Davante subplot, because I do
Speaker 1: think that's important and if we talk about nothing else,
Speaker 1: we should talk about Davante's character and how he advances
Speaker 1: the book. Jen do you want to take So Davante
Speaker 1: is working for King, and King wants him to I
Speaker 1: think execute the first thing who shot his brother at
Speaker 1: the party and Davante really does not want to do that,
Speaker 1: and it becomes very clear when Star and Mavericks see
Speaker 1: him just lingering in Maverick's corner store a little bit
Speaker 1: too long, um, and it becomes very clear that he's
Speaker 1: hiding from King and the king Lords. And he starts
Speaker 1: talking to Maverick about the situation he's in. How he
Speaker 1: wants to know how Maverick got o would of being
Speaker 1: in the king Lords, and Bathicks says, well, I went
Speaker 1: to jail for them, so that's how I got out,
Speaker 1: and it does not want to go to jail very
Speaker 1: very understandably, so he but he's clearly trying to get
Speaker 1: out of life in the king Lords. And for a
Speaker 1: little while he works in maverick shop. Um, he's working
Speaker 1: pretty hard. Um. Maverick asked what kind of grades he makes.
Speaker 1: He says he makes A S and B S at school.
Speaker 1: He's not dumb. Um. He has a little bit of
Speaker 1: a flirtatious chemistry with Star, and eventually it becomes very
Speaker 1: clear that King is looking for him and is going
Speaker 1: to find him and do something ambiguously horrible to him.
Speaker 1: So they send Avante off to live with Uncle Carlos,
Speaker 1: and that means that he is also living down the
Speaker 1: street from Chris uh Star's boyfriend, and it brings those
Speaker 1: two people into contact with each other, so we can
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that. They sort of have
Speaker 1: this then, like a horrible cute little friendship playing video
Speaker 1: games together. And I think it helps Chris, who sort
Speaker 1: of I think a better well developed character in the
Speaker 1: book because I think we get more of him than
Speaker 1: he and he is in the movie. But we do
Speaker 1: see Chris actively trying to understand where Star comes from,
Speaker 1: and I think that hanging out with Davante then helps
Speaker 1: him in that world. And then the Davante subplot is
Speaker 1: what gets Start back to the neighborhood the night of
Speaker 1: the riots and protests. First, Davante leaves and they don't
Speaker 1: know what happened to him, and it turned out he
Speaker 1: went back to the neighborhood and he got jumped by
Speaker 1: the king lords. Um. I think it's important to say
Speaker 1: he went back to the neighborhood because he wanted to
Speaker 1: go to his sorry to be with his brother's grave,
Speaker 1: but gets jumped and they go back into Garden Heights,
Speaker 1: which is, for the record, a fictional community, and they
Speaker 1: never say what state it's in, which I also thought
Speaker 1: was really important because I think there's a lot of
Speaker 1: there's a lot of an erroneous belief that stuff like
Speaker 1: this only happens in the South, and that's not true
Speaker 1: at all, And by not giving it an actual state,
Speaker 1: it could be in any state, it could be in
Speaker 1: your state. Listener, So these things do happen in your
Speaker 1: state unless you live in insert state here. I'm kidding
Speaker 1: that happens. I'm gonna go super fast over this just
Speaker 1: to to wrap it up, so I might miss one
Speaker 1: or two things. But they go and they find uh Davante,
Speaker 1: who's basically bleeding out on the second floor of of
Speaker 1: King's house, and they were able to get in because
Speaker 1: of Seven, who's also King's stepson sort of you know,
Speaker 1: by his mother, and Kenya, who's King's daughter, and they
Speaker 1: they help basically rescue h DeVante with the help of Ayisha,
Speaker 1: who Seven had been so embarrassed by and sort of
Speaker 1: ashamed by and thinks of as a as you know,
Speaker 1: a woman who over indulges King in a way that
Speaker 1: he finds really um troubling. And then he doesn't even
Speaker 1: realize stars the one who realizes, like, no, he just
Speaker 1: she just saved you. Like she went back to distract
Speaker 1: King and said, take your sister, both of your sisters.
Speaker 1: Not because she was tired, but not because like, oh
Speaker 1: just get rid of your sisters because I'm tired of them,
Speaker 1: but because she was actively protecting them. Because when King
Speaker 1: saw Davante was going to be gone, he was going
Speaker 1: to beat someone. She essentially, I mean she didn't die,
Speaker 1: but she essentially sacrificed herself. She sacrificed her health. She
Speaker 1: put herself in danger in order to protect and save
Speaker 1: her children because because knowing that she would um get
Speaker 1: beaten once he discovers what hap. I think there's a
Speaker 1: constant theme throughout this book of people being willing to
Speaker 1: put themselves in positions of tremendous danger to defend people
Speaker 1: that they love. Khalil Um at the beginning, they talked
Speaker 1: about how he wanted to make money because he wanted
Speaker 1: to help his mom. He was still trying to his mother.
Speaker 1: His last words were asking if Starr was okay speaking
Speaker 1: of sacrifice and putting yourself in danger. You know, after
Speaker 1: the protests and the riots and they almost die in
Speaker 1: maps shop because King King's guys throw in a what's
Speaker 1: it called tail and they almost die and it's this
Speaker 1: very scary scene and they're rescued. And then when everyone
Speaker 1: snitches on King and they realized that King will will
Speaker 1: be out by the end of the week. Um, Davante
Speaker 1: says that he will. Um, he will be an informant
Speaker 1: and tell them where the drugs are so that they
Speaker 1: will that he will stay in prison and that is
Speaker 1: his his sacrifice, you know. Um at the end of
Speaker 1: the book, which also speaks to mandatory minimums and how
Speaker 1: drug charges have much longer sentences murder. Yeah, the book,
Speaker 1: which the film doesn't get into, but is I am
Speaker 1: really excellent well and the end of the film is
Speaker 1: very different with Sakani having the gun, and I understand
Speaker 1: that it needed something stronger visually. Uh, and it was
Speaker 1: definitely very strong. I was like, oh no, my sweet baby,
Speaker 1: because I love Sakani, He's my favorite. I love that.
Speaker 1: The first scene we see him in the movie is
Speaker 1: him peeing wrong. He's just missing, he's just missing the toilet. Um.
Speaker 1: They don't get into. Yeah, his name means joy since
Speaker 1: we're on name meanings. UM. I think that it's important,
Speaker 1: I guess for the plot development to have it wrap
Speaker 1: up with the hate you give little infants and show
Speaker 1: this is it. This is the visual manifestation at This
Speaker 1: is Sakani holding a gun at Kang saying leave my
Speaker 1: daddy alone. And it fox everyone because if the police,
Speaker 1: I was surprised the police didn't arrest him. But the
Speaker 1: police show up point guns. It succoming and I think
Speaker 1: part of it if he had been a white kid
Speaker 1: with a gun, it would have maybe been a slightly
Speaker 1: different situation, especially because he didn't have his gun pointed
Speaker 1: at anybody else. Another I mean important moment in the
Speaker 1: in the book sort of a climax is during the protest, uh,
Speaker 1: Star gets the courage to climb on a car and
Speaker 1: grab a megaphone and use it to to talk about
Speaker 1: her experience publicly about being the witness. And that was
Speaker 1: that's her I think, you know, big moment to her
Speaker 1: act of courage, just being able to publicly speak out
Speaker 1: about this and and hold the weapon of the megaphone.
Speaker 1: I thought one motif that I thought was really beautiful
Speaker 1: was the literal ways in which Star finds her voice
Speaker 1: throughout the story that it starts with her. You know,
Speaker 1: she doesn't tell her friends at school, she doesn't tell
Speaker 1: Chris she has to go to the police, like or
Speaker 1: she decides she wants to, but she tries to back
Speaker 1: out at a certain point. And then after that experience,
Speaker 1: you know, she talks to the grand jury and then
Speaker 1: she does the interview, but the interview is still anonymous
Speaker 1: and so and then that final moment was so I mean,
Speaker 1: it felt so emotional of her getting on that cop
Speaker 1: car and it was that true moment of her finding
Speaker 1: her voice with a literal bullhorn. And I just loved
Speaker 1: that arc. And now we can go back to the
Speaker 1: grand jury. But I just thought the way Angie wrote
Speaker 1: those and sort of but and talking to Chris at
Speaker 1: prom about it too, was like it was each like
Speaker 1: unfolding of it and opening up and speaking her truth.
Speaker 1: I just thought it was so beautiful. You're listening to
Speaker 1: Popcorn Book Club for My Heart Radio and we'll be
Speaker 1: back right after the break. So we're back with Popcorn
Speaker 1: Book Club for My Heart Radio. I know that, um,
Speaker 1: for queer people, you have to come out multiple times.
Speaker 1: Like everybody's like, oh, you came out, and it's like, no,
Speaker 1: I have to come out all the time. If I
Speaker 1: ever have a partner that is like I personally am bisexual,
Speaker 1: So if I have a partner who is of a
Speaker 1: similar gender to me than I have to be like, yes,
Speaker 1: this is a thing, and like, particularly because I have
Speaker 1: dated people who were not of similar genders to me,
Speaker 1: then I have to come out again. And I think
Speaker 1: that being black and having intimate relationships with white people,
Speaker 1: whether it's friendship, whether it's family in some people's cases,
Speaker 1: or whether it is a relationship, you have to in
Speaker 1: a way sort of come out over and over again
Speaker 1: and show them aspects of your blackness over and over again,
Speaker 1: and like they're just things that you don't talk about.
Speaker 1: Like I have a friend and who's going to be
Speaker 1: in prison until and I don't talk about that a lot.
Speaker 1: And when I do talk about it, I feel bad
Speaker 1: because I'm like, I just dumped a whole bunch of
Speaker 1: stuff on you, and my friends are like, well, now
Speaker 1: I understand a lot more about you and why certain
Speaker 1: things maybe get under your skin. And like, I think
Speaker 1: that people should be able to vote after they've served
Speaker 1: their time. That's not it's ridiculous um for parties. It's
Speaker 1: saying that that doesn't happen. I also believe that people
Speaker 1: should be able to vote while they're in prison. I
Speaker 1: know that's a little bit more controversial. It does exist
Speaker 1: in some states, but I think at the very least,
Speaker 1: the bare minimum is that if you've served your time,
Speaker 1: you've done your debt to society. We can argue about
Speaker 1: whether prison should even be the punishment because residivism is
Speaker 1: out of control, um and it makes it harder to
Speaker 1: get a job after you've been in prison. Like, being
Speaker 1: in prison truly ruins people's lives. But I think that
Speaker 1: knowing that about me did gives people insight in a
Speaker 1: different way. But it's also a thing that you can't
Speaker 1: just whip out at parties, Like I mean, Dana has
Speaker 1: known me for years and years and she just found
Speaker 1: that out right now as we're recording a podcast. And
Speaker 1: I've known this friend, my friend who is incarcerated currently,
Speaker 1: since I was four years old, and he's like my brother.
Speaker 1: He's basically my Davante, And I'm so grateful that he
Speaker 1: is alive and that when he was arrested he survived that.
Speaker 1: But it's also like at what costs, Like what life
Speaker 1: is he going to have if he gets out right.
Speaker 1: To bring it back to the hate you give, is
Speaker 1: I do feel like it's all part of the same problem,
Speaker 1: where the system of law enforcement is one in which
Speaker 1: someone like one fifteen gets to determine Khalil's entire life
Speaker 1: and death. Where you know, in a different universe, Khalil
Speaker 1: might have been arrested for for drug dealing, you know,
Speaker 1: and that would have been better than murdered, but it's
Speaker 1: still a systemic act of violence against against his body
Speaker 1: where he just can't live as a person in the
Speaker 1: world because the entire system is rigged against him. In
Speaker 1: a different reality, he might have been stopped in frist
Speaker 1: and a lot of stopping frisk does h end up
Speaker 1: as effectively sort of sexual assault where they are violated
Speaker 1: in the people who are stopped and fristed are violated
Speaker 1: by these police officers and there's nothing you can do
Speaker 1: about it. I mean, and you can get raped by
Speaker 1: a police officer legally in like twenty States or something like.
Speaker 1: It'sas which we do not hold police accountable, as what
Speaker 1: why are we letting that happen? Also, in a in
Speaker 1: a very different world, he wouldn't have needed to drug
Speaker 1: deal to pay for his grandmother's cancer treatments because medical
Speaker 1: care would be affordable a marriage is not a good place.
Speaker 1: I mean, there are a good part, and that's the
Speaker 1: thing we are. We're all responsible as people in this
Speaker 1: country for trying to make the good parts outweigh the
Speaker 1: bad parts. And some of the good parts are some
Speaker 1: of the freedoms that we hold, like freedom of speech.
Speaker 1: We get to say all this stuff because of the
Speaker 1: First Amendment in the Constitution. But I think people forget
Speaker 1: that the Constitution is supposed to be a living, breathing document,
Speaker 1: and a lot of people forget that we're saying the
Speaker 1: First Amendment. It wasn't in the Constitution that we got
Speaker 1: freedom of speech. We amended it because we were like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's the thing people should have. And we amended the
Speaker 1: Constitution to abolished slavery. Accept I think that except is
Speaker 1: a big word in the thirteenth Amendment, but we keep
Speaker 1: making changes. We amended the Constitution to prohibit alcohol, and
Speaker 1: then we amended it back because we were like, remember,
Speaker 1: this is the problem. The problem with American exceptionalism when
Speaker 1: people assume that this is the only way. So it's like,
Speaker 1: I think America is exceptional in some ways. It's like, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: great that in theory we have communication and freedoms and changing.
Speaker 1: But that then that idea that America is the best
Speaker 1: bite us in the ass, because then it prevents us
Speaker 1: from making it better. Um. I think it's also a
Speaker 1: culture that actively disparages learning about other cultures. It's one
Speaker 1: of the only My family is Canadian. Um, I was
Speaker 1: born here. I'm a dual citizen. But everybody in my
Speaker 1: family because they're run away. Oh my god, why are
Speaker 1: you still here? Um? It's a really good question, you know.
Speaker 1: I think in the same way, the people in this book,
Speaker 1: to bring it back to the book, can want to
Speaker 1: stay in Garden Heights because you think that if you
Speaker 1: use your voice and you try to be a good person,
Speaker 1: you can make things a little bit better. Maybe that's
Speaker 1: what we're all trying to do with America right now.
Speaker 1: I hope. Um. But yeah, but it's a culture where
Speaker 1: the entire rest of my family speaks French and English.
Speaker 1: Because you learn French in the schools, you also learn English. UM,
Speaker 1: I don't France, never mind. Could I also just say
Speaker 1: on the record, Jennifer, you are the fanciest witch I know. Oh,
Speaker 1: thank you. That's nice of you. Wow, wow shots fires Well,
Speaker 1: thanks thanks Melissa. I think you are fancy, and I
Speaker 1: think you Sorry. You guys have one day invite me
Speaker 1: to a party where the alcohol served is exclusively champagne,
Speaker 1: and then you will also compete for the Fanciest Bitch
Speaker 1: I know award. Um, I will also saying that I
Speaker 1: will ever say. Growing up, I was told never to
Speaker 1: use the word fancy because it's vulgar. See, I'm not
Speaker 1: a fancy fanciest shit I've ever heard. Yeah, that's super Guenevere.
Speaker 1: When you're fancy, We're gonna call you Guenevere from now.
Speaker 1: But I do think actually just to bring the we
Speaker 1: should bring me the pace. Well, in the very first
Speaker 1: scene in the book, I think it's actually the very
Speaker 1: first line in the book, Star says I don't belong here.
Speaker 1: And she's at this party and she's like, I don't
Speaker 1: belong here, and then she says and that's not on
Speaker 1: some bougie ship, which um, I thought was really interesting
Speaker 1: because there is the immediate thing like, well, I'm not bougie.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to think that I'm better than anybody.
Speaker 1: And I think that there's a lot of defense of
Speaker 1: that that has to happen for Star because she goes
Speaker 1: to this school, and I know that for me when
Speaker 1: I was younger, when I even younger than Star, when
Speaker 1: I was like eleven and twelve, I got called an
Speaker 1: oreo a lot because I liked school. And do you
Speaker 1: guys know that term? Ya? I mean obviously not the cookie,
Speaker 1: but um so for listeners who might not oreo as
Speaker 1: a person who is black on the outside and white
Speaker 1: on the inside. So I got called I got told
Speaker 1: I act white. I got told that I was an oreo.
Speaker 1: And I think, thankfully, because there is less of a
Speaker 1: larger cultural belief, not just in black cultures but in
Speaker 1: American culture, that there is this monolith of blackness, black
Speaker 1: people feel less like they have to hold everybody to
Speaker 1: the standard of this monolith of blackness. And I think
Speaker 1: that one of the reasons that people do that is
Speaker 1: because or not do that, but did that to me
Speaker 1: is because if I am seeing as different from them,
Speaker 1: and I think that I'm better than them, then they
Speaker 1: are worse and they are the people who are getting
Speaker 1: stopped by the police, Like I drive a Prius with
Speaker 1: a brown university sticker on the back, and I think
Speaker 1: that's probably a large part of why I very rarely
Speaker 1: get pulled over by cops. I can count on one
Speaker 1: hand how many times I've been pulled over, and both
Speaker 1: times I was deeply afraid. I was lucky I didn't
Speaker 1: get a ticket either time, But the second time I
Speaker 1: know that it was probably belie the fact that I
Speaker 1: had somebody who was not black in the car with
Speaker 1: me that made it not an altercation of any sort.
Speaker 1: And I think that Star's mom says that you can
Speaker 1: do everything right and things can still go wrong, but
Speaker 1: the important thing is to keep doing right. And she
Speaker 1: said that more in terms of speaking out and speaking up.
Speaker 1: But I feel like Khalil was frustrated because he did
Speaker 1: everything right and he was still getting pulled over. And
Speaker 1: the thing is, you have to keep doing everything right.
Speaker 1: You just still have to keep doing it. It sort
Speaker 1: of reminded me also of when it's so horrible that
Speaker 1: there are so many people that I'm like, do you
Speaker 1: remember when Michael Brown died and it was the phrase
Speaker 1: they I think they used the phrase like he was
Speaker 1: no angel to describe him. Oh yeah, the news, which
Speaker 1: I think making Khalil a drug dealer for like reasons
Speaker 1: justifiable or not, Like he was just like a young
Speaker 1: kid caught up in this community is really important in
Speaker 1: this book because it doesn't make his life any less
Speaker 1: meaning full or valuable. You don't have to be a
Speaker 1: good person. You don't have to be a sweet person
Speaker 1: or a good person or a nice person to not
Speaker 1: to have it be bad that cops indiscriminately murder you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't live in the wild West. Even if you
Speaker 1: are objectively a very bad fully murderous person, Cops shouldn't
Speaker 1: be allowed to just shoot you in the streets when
Speaker 1: you're eating side and they And I think the other
Speaker 1: side of that too, is for Star she's learns in
Speaker 1: that same conversation Karma that you brought up where her
Speaker 1: mom talks to her. Oh, I think. I think they
Speaker 1: go through a blockade to get back into the neighborhood
Speaker 1: as protests are happening, and she's still she has PTSD
Speaker 1: and she's worried about the cops because she also could
Speaker 1: have been killed in that the cop point of the
Speaker 1: gun at her. So like, I think the conversation that
Speaker 1: is that needs to be a part of it too,
Speaker 1: is that there's no amount of respectability that black folks
Speaker 1: can move about in this world without being police to
Speaker 1: buy a violent state in a racist society, and that
Speaker 1: like someone like Star who did everything right, who goes
Speaker 1: to a private school, who is a good kid, could
Speaker 1: also fall victim to stay violence. That's our show for
Speaker 1: the week. Thank you so much for listening. I'm Danis
Speaker 1: Schwartz and you can find me on Twitter at Danish
Speaker 1: Schwartz with three z's. You can follow Jennifer Wright at
Speaker 1: jen Ashley Wright Karama, Donqua is at Karama Drama, Melissa
Speaker 1: Hunter is at Melissa f t W and Tan Tran
Speaker 1: is smart enough to have gotten off Twitter, but she
Speaker 1: is on Insta at Hank Tina. Our executive producer is
Speaker 1: Christopher Hessiotes were produced and edited by Mike Johns. Special
Speaker 1: thanks to David Wasserman. Next week, I am so excited
Speaker 1: to say we sit down with author Angie Thomas to
Speaker 1: talk about the hate you give. I am so excited
Speaker 1: about this conversation. I cannot wait for you all to
Speaker 1: hear it. Popcorn Book Club is a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. See you next week, m HM.