WEBVTT - The Hate U Give (Part 2) 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:09.240 Hey there, I'm Dani Schwartz. This is Popcorn Book Club 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:12.480 and this week we are continuing our discussion of Angie 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:15.960 Thomas's novel The Hate You Give. As always, I'm joined 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:19.960 by Jennifer Wright, Cromadanqua, Tian Tran, and Melissa Hunter. This 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:22.599 is part two of our discussion, but just to catch 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:25.439 you up super quick, the book follows sixteen year old 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:28.240 Star Carter, a young black woman who sees her best 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:30.800 friend shot and killed by police in front of her 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:35.040 during a routine traffic stop. Now, we recorded this discussion 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:37.040 a few weeks ago, and I want to say that 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:42.199 it's heartbreaking that this work of fiction fromen is so 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:46.560 immediately relevant in our world, and that it's so relevant 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:50.879 again right now this week, and it shouldn't be. But 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.280 as long as this I am proud to be having 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:57.360 this discussion alongside these amazing women. And just to make 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:00.400 it very clear, Popcorn Book Club says black lives matter. 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:03.680 So last week, Starr had just gone to the police 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:06.759 station to give her testimony on what had happened, and 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:10.480 Karama picks it up from there. She goes to Khalil's funeral, 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:14.200 where she is reminded of the funeral for Natasha and 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:16.600 how they both seem like mannekins and their coffins and 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:19.840 they don't have the life in them that they had 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:22.360 in life. And there's a lot of talk about Khalil's 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:26.560 dimples and how in that coffin he doesn't have those. Uh. 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:31.760 And at the funeral, uh, the king lords come, led 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:35.479 by King and they leave a gray bandana on his body, 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:38.880 which is a sign that you are a member of 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:40.640 the king Lords, because gray is one of the king 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:44.959 lord colors and uh. Ms Rosalie, who is Kail's grandma, 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.680 freaks out understandably, so grabs the bandana, throws it at 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:53.920 King and tells them to get out. And Ayisha Uh. 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.880 Then Ayisha, who is Seven's mom and uh and Kenya's 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:02.800 mom then says, oh, like, why are you being such 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:06.040 a bit basically and we offered to pay for this funeral, 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:10.720 and then Mrs Rosalie calls her a whore, which is 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.560 not gracious, But no one in this instance is being gracious, 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:16.720 and I think Ms. Rosalie has the most reason not 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.680 to be at this point. Uh. And then that's when 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:21.160 we sort of find out a little bit more about 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:24.960 Aisha and Mav and find out that Maverick, who is 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:29.480 both seven and stars father, did hire her as a 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:33.399 sex worker and that is how seven was conceived. So 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:35.520 and it was after a night that he fought with Lisa, 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.280 So he was with Lisa first and then he ends 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.520 up involved with Aisha for one night and then we 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:45.320 get seven. So it's really interesting we find out more 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:48.440 about this sort of I use the term blended family 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:50.480 because I feel like people don't use that term for 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:54.560 black people very often, and I think that when similar 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:57.120 instances happen to non black families, people are like, oh, 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:00.320 we're a blended family. We're all sorts of like click dick, 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:06.200 And it's not something that is ideal and nobody had 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:08.440 planned it, but they are a family and they do 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:12.160 love each other a lot, and seven is treated like 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:14.400 a biological son by Lisa, and later in the book 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:16.680 we find out that he tells people that she's his 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.800 mom at school in particular, and some of that is 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.240 from shame, some of that is from a love of her, 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:28.560 shame of his actual mother but or not actual biological mother. 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:33.400 And uh so then we have this funeral, and I 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:36.680 think right before the funeral, there is an incident with 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.200 a basketball game. They're playing a pickup basketball game and 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:43.760 it's Maya and Haley and Star and they're playing against 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:48.119 three boys, including Chris, And when Chris steals the ball 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:51.440 from Star, Haley makes a snide comment and says, why 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:53.640 don't you just treat the ball like gets fried chicken? 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:58.920 And then Star gets reasonably and understandably upset, and Haley 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:02.680 gets upset also that she is being accused of being 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:06.840 a racist fucking Haley. Yeah, I think we should talk 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:11.960 about Haley and Maya here. Haley. Obviously, as we go on, 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:16.760 the dynamics there become more complicated. But um, I think 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.360 that this is the first real instance where we see like, 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:23.359 oh ships off with Haley a little bit. Uh, we 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.599 did see it a little bit earlier in the very beginning, 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:28.080 because the party happens at the end of spring break. 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:30.200 It's the Saturday at the end of spring break, and 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:33.799 then when they get back to school on Monday. Uh, 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:37.240 there is a line where Maya says, oh, Haley has 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:40.080 been texting me all spring break, and Stars like the funk, 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:44.000 why hasn't Haley texted me once all spring break? So 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:48.360 there's definitely some tension there, and uh, do you all 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:51.839 want to talk about follow her on Tumblr. It truly 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:54.440 is a bit and like a dirty unfollowed. It's not 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.880 like she explicitly said I'm gonna follow you because I 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:01.039 have difficulty with the content you're posting, and there was 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:05.000 no communication about it. It It was just like I'm gonna unfollow. No, 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:10.960 it's like a cowardly unfollowed, super cowardly, very teenage mean 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:15.240 girl I follow. It also feels like it treats the 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.920 content that she's posting in such an incredibly dismissive way 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.840 to a picture of that Till being murdered, as though, 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:26.320 like why did you post garbage on your tuggeler? I 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:30.159 don't like seeing that, That's what I don't want to 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:31.680 look at that. And it's like no one wanted to 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:34.600 look at that, And that's why Emmett Till's mother did that. 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:38.840 She specifically had an open casket funeral because she said, 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:41.120 I want them to see what they did to my 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:44.120 little boy. He was fourteen years old when he died, 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:49.400 and he was accused of of inappropriate touching with a 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:52.200 white woman who was twenty one and working in a store, 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:55.760 Like that doesn't make any sense, and that white woman 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:59.240 admitted later that she lied about what happened. It was 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:01.640 discovered in Like Why seventeen, the year that this book 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:06.200 came out, that Caroline Bryant, the woman who was the 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.119 alleged victim in the case, that not in the case, 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:13.200 but that lad people to murder Emmett Till, lied about it. 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:16.359 And she has faced no repercussions, no consequences, and she 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:20.799 is still alive. She's still walking this earth, probably feeling 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:26.560 at least moderately guilty, I hope. But just like that 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.800 is a love of the oddest things about all the 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:32.120 pictures from that time. They're all black and white, and 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:35.160 I think, at least for me it it allows me 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.040 to live in this kind of comfortable idea that all 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.000 this happened a long time ago. And then you realize, 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.120 like all those people are still voting, those people are 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:46.400 like seven right now. Those people screaming as the school's 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:50.280 segregate and holding up just horrible signs, when people trying 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:52.960 to set the lunch counters, they're all still around. That 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:57.240 was those were people, her grandparents, was no one. It 0:06:57.360 --> 0:06:59.280 was like a thing that I realized that I read 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:04.159 that the Mala Hockey police officer who dismissed that Jeffrey Dahmer, 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:09.920 basically a teenage a fourteen year old from Laos escaped 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:14.400 from Jeffrey Dahmer naked and drugged, and a black girl 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:17.560 like a teenager called the cops to be like clearly 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:23.360 the situation, and her mother, grandmother, I'm not there, corroborated 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:26.200 the story. But Jeffrey Dahmer, the only white man in 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:30.200 this situation, was like, ha ha, no, it's just a misunderstanding. 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:34.360 He's my boyfriend. He's a little drunk, and completely dismissed 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:39.200 the multiple people of color who are like, no, there 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:42.360 is a fucked up situation happening. They let that boy 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:45.200 go back into his room and he was murdered, and 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.480 then the ten more people were murdered by Jeffrey Dahmer, 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:51.480 and that police officer who didn't respond, who like even 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:55.200 noted that Jeffrey Dahmer's apartment smelled like flesh like like 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.960 like weird smell. He became the head of the police 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:02.640 union and he retired like with a thumbs up, like 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:06.120 these people are just like okay, whatever, how do you 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:08.600 live with yourself? That's it? If you found out that 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:12.760 that that that case, that that kid was then murdered 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:16.800 and and and cannibalized, and then multiple more people were murdered. 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:19.960 How do you then go another few decades as a 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.360 police I couldn't do it. I mean I wouldn't have 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:24.200 been a police officer in the first place. I just 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:28.200 don't have the constitution. I'm very jumpy um and some 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:30.960 people I just don't know. I don't have the constitution. 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.280 And I think that we need to look at some 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:35.480 of the things that are happening, because it's like we 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.120 had mentioned earlier, he was so trigger happy when fifteen 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:40.800 when this happened, And it's like, if you are so 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.920 afraid of somebody leaning into a vehicle and your first 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:48.080 instinct isn't to de escalate the situation, to ask somebody 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.840 to step back from the vehicle, any of that. Like, yes, 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:53.079 you told him not to move already, I understand that. 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:57.679 But I work with young people. They need things several times. 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.280 Sometimes you need to tell them multiple times, like I 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:02.480 said this, I said that, And that's the thing. He 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:06.360 is a young person. And if you're that trigger nappy 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:10.760 and you're that jumpy, you need another job. Yeah, it 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.280 certainly seems like a starr was able to remember all 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:17.000 of her track thing as and someone who got a 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:20.640 speech one time from her dad. Uh. It seems like 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.959 one fifteen was not able to remember any training that 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:28.199 he presumably should have. Well, I think the problem and 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:32.319 they're not getting training to to de escalate situations. That's 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:36.000 part of it. But let's talk about friends. I think, yeah, 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:39.160 the one it ties back in really well because she's 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:41.680 at Haley's. I might be skipping ahead of story, but 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:45.160 thematically it fits in. She's at Haley's when we're watching 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:50.760 an interview about Maya. Sorry, Maya's with Haley next to her, 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:52.400 like this is sort of the first time they've hung 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:55.040 out in a long time. Uh, And they are channel 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.160 stiffing and they come across an interview and I think 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:03.520 this is the interview where one fifteen dad he's a 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:06.400 good boy and he was just trying his best, like 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:10.560 the most, like humanizing, like, good old boy, don't ruin 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:14.280 this sweet, non racist boy's life. The dad is trying 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:17.120 to say and and he says he can't even go 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.840 to the store for a gallon of milk, which reminded 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:21.920 me very much a brock Turner's case where his dad 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:24.439 was like, he can't eat a steak and I'm like, okay, 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:29.040 but you've traumatize someone for life. He can't enjoy his 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:34.320 favorite food. Haley used to indicate that his happiness is 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:38.880 as important as this other man's life, which is And 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.880 Haley's response is like, Oh, that's so sad for that 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:48.359 she at that moment, she truly did matter at that moment. Yeah, 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:54.720 I think it's so like interesting, and Angie's just the 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:58.200 best to make Hayley, you know, this white woman who's 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:02.199 his friend, this white this white teenager who's this friend. Uh, 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:04.960 And to show that like friendship is not enough, Like 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.640 I think we're having so many conversations about ally ship 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:10.760 and what friendship is and what like being actually anti 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:14.480 racist is. And to have Ali or Haley as this 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:18.480 proxy for what I think a lot of non black 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.000 folks and white folks can sometimes fall into the trap 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.440 of of like saying a thing and not thinking that 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:28.560 it's offensive or that it like puts that it's something racist. 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.880 And I also think it's interesting that Maya is Asian 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:38.040 American because her growth in this story is important and 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:40.520 interesting too, because in so many ways there's a lot 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:42.960 of anti blackness in the Asian American community, and she's 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:46.720 complicit at the beginning of this. And so she's absolutely 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:50.079 complicit in the beginning of this and doesn't stand up 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:55.000 to Haley and is happy following. And so that is 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:57.840 also a very interesting growth in their friendship as well, 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.760 to have the three of them kind of navigating this together. 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:05.720 I actually have a quote that I highlighted in uh 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:07.360 the kindle version of the book. I have both the 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:12.160 kindle version and the physical version, and it's from that 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:14.600 scene because after Haley storms out after they get into 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:17.040 an argument about how she Blue loves matters this moment. 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:21.439 Maya admits that there was a moment a couple of 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.440 years prior when they were like freshman in high school, 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.600 when Haley said something racist to her and she asked her. 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:30.880 It was after Thanksgiving and she said, oh, my grandma 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:33.160 came from China, And Haley asked, did you guys eat 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:37.959 a cat? Because they're Chinese, which, first of all, I 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:41.640 don't even think is the correct animal stereotype, Like I 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:46.320 just don't um. And then she's a dumb rasist, so 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.760 she's an inaccurate like that just really gets if you're 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:54.120 gonna be hateful, do it right. But do your research 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:59.280 read Racist Weekly. Well, and then Star it's like, oh, 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.040 I don't really remember this, And Maya says, well, you 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:06.680 were there, and Starr says, what did I say? Maya responds, nothing, 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:08.559 You had this look on your face like you couldn't 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.080 believe she said that. She claimed it was a joke 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:15.520 and laughed. I laughed, and then you laughed, and then 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:18.000 I wrote there's a complicity that happens when you try 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:20.200 to belong in a world that's not your own, instead 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:23.520 of realizing that standing out is your greatest strength. Because 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:26.679 they're all trying to make it at Williamson and they're like, 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:30.120 if we just make the white people feel like we'd cool, 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:34.679 then will be okay. And who is that serving at 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.560 the end of the day. Not you. It's serving people 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.120 who are contributing to a system that's going to then 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:44.800 affect people later when they're applying for jobs and when 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:48.320 the things actually mad, or when they're the cops and 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.600 they see somebody and they're like, oh, they were these 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.280 kind of sneakers, they were this kind of clothes, They're 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:59.520 a threat. Yeah. I loved the journey of the two 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:03.600 of them together, of Maya and Star and Maya's growth 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:09.000 in it, and I saw Haley represents I mean the 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:13.520 ultimate like high school mean girl and two that I 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:17.240 have experienced a lot in high school, but not you know, 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.560 it was not an attack on my race because I 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.480 am a white person. They're just like mean girls everywhere. 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:27.880 But I do think the what I loved about the 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:30.200 Haley character, I think, as you were saying, Tianna, is 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:35.320 that like it does feel so representative of a type 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:39.560 of white person that is trying to trying to be 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:43.960 an ally or maybe isn't. And what's the worst thing 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.520 that you can do? Like if you're if you're racist, 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.840 it's equally bad to be called a racist that she 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:55.200 is demanding in that moment when Starr says that's racist 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.200 what you said? She's like, how dare you call me 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.080 a race? Like you need to apologize for calling me racist? 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:04.560 And that's like we both need to apologize. I'll apologize 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:07.120 for this if you've apologize for calling me racist. And 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:12.960 I feel like it was I loved how when star 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:17.280 Let's Hayley go, it just felt like the last burden 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:22.440 of of that she's letting go of this um version 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:25.360 of star that was allowing people like that into her life. 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:28.120 I think that doesn't have much, but she doesn't have 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:32.760 the audacity, like how yes someone if they say you 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:34.960 said a racist thing to me, it's like, well, you 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:39.160 apologize first, and then I'll do it. And then even 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.360 later she also goes you apology, goes you apologize first, 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:47.680 and my mom died too, so she does mention that 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.840 her mom said. She's like, are you upset because your 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.400 friend got shot? And like it's that time of year, 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:59.040 And even when she does I'm putting air quotes around 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:02.040 this again, apology drives. Later she's like, I'm sorry that 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:04.920 I if I hurt you. Yeah, I'm sorry that your 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.480 feelings got hurt? How did your feelings get hurt? And 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.840 she's like, I'm sorry you reacted this way. Can you 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:13.560 see Haley? Haley is like a tiny Karen in training, 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:15.560 Like I don't mean, but she is, and you can 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:21.320 like the video she would be in a viral video, 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:24.800 Haley is not wearing a mask right now, and she's 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:28.040 an anti fax er and she's yelling at grocery stork 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:31.280 clerks anyway, and she's the one who names her daughter 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:34.440 like Mikhaela with like an e and an eye and 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:36.480 a g N and why in an age? And then 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:38.920 it's like why are black names weird? Which is the 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:43.200 thing that Chris well. But it wasn't just Haley, it 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:46.720 was the whole school, right Yeah. I mean I think 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:51.560 Haley really stands out as an example of someone who 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:55.880 is entirely out of earth their privilege and um, just 0:16:56.600 --> 0:17:02.720 wildly racist at every turn. But after um the protests 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.119 started erupting and the school decides that they're going to 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:09.240 do a walkout to protest his death. I had this 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:11.560 moment where I was like, Oh, that's that's so good. 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:16.320 There there's such a tiny activists and then UM start 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:19.880 immediately started getting other texts being like good we get 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:21.680 a free day off, Like great, we're not going to 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:25.200 school today. I love to skip class. Um, do you 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:32.440 all remember who started the walkout? And so this is 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:36.440 a this is a household issue. I do want to 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:39.520 talk for a second about the film and casting because 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:43.440 something I found really interesting. UM, for those of you 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:47.080 who are unfamiliar with the term colorism, it is a 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:51.600 sort of horizontal prejudice that happens in communities of color, 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:56.920 where people who are considered more I have, who have 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:00.960 more proximity to whiteness have more privilege, and so I 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:03.159 think it's really important to talk about the fact that 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:07.240 a man less Stundberg is half white. They are a 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:11.800 person of color and visibly coded as black, but they 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.960 are very light skinned, and I thought it was really 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:18.480 interesting how they were the most light skinned person in 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:22.440 the in the cast who was black. But I also 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:24.480 thought it was interesting that Mav was very dark skinned 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:28.400 and Carlos, played by Academy Award winner Common, was also 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:31.679 very light skinned, and I wonder if that had anything 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:36.760 to do with the tension between Mav and Carlos. Also um, 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:38.640 and then I think it's also important to talk about 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:42.920 the fact that, uh, the woman who plays Maya whose 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:47.200 name I wrote down, Megan Lawless, Yes, Megan Lawless, is 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:51.520 also uh she's a mixed race person. And kJ Appa, 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.520 who plays Archie on Riverdale, a show that we've mentioned 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:59.680 on this podcast previously and plays Chris in the in 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.960 the show, is also a mixed race person, which a 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.000 lot of people I think don't know. Um. He is 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:10.800 a quarter Maori and his dad is a chief in 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:14.920 the Maori tradition, which um. I think it's interesting how 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:17.960 all of these people are mixed race but are coded 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:19.960 in different ways. So we look at Chris, we're supposed 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:23.159 to say Chris is white, but also he has this 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:25.600 indigenous community that he is a part of, and he 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:29.440 and kJ Appa has never distanced himself from this community 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:31.320 and is very open about it and has been since 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:34.760 the beginning of his career in New Zealand. UM And 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:39.440 obviously Amana Stenberg is very open about fighting for black rights, 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:43.840 and they're very open about black power and fighting for 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:48.960 equality for black people. And uh, Megan Lawless, I don't 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:51.439 know as much, but I know that in an interview 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:53.120 she said that she's felt that she's had to hide 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:55.000 her Chinese side at times and had to hide her 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:57.720 white side at times, and I did feel like having 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:00.960 her be mixed race kind of took some of the 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:04.119 air out of the sales of the Maya Story, and 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:09.000 they didn't explore that more, and she wasn't really They 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:11.240 never mentioned her last name, they never mentioned anything about 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:14.520 her family. I think if you didn't didn't read the book, 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:17.200 I mean visually, that you might not have been able 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:21.080 to gauge that. Yeah, if you didn't read the book, 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:22.679 you'd be like, Wow, it's cool that they gave her 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:26.760 a diverse friend and I'm like, no, that's intentional. It's 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.040 it's supposed to be a big part of it. Yeah, 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:31.399 it was interesting that they cut that out because you 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:33.960 only see Maya not getting it, and then you see 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:38.600 her at the end with Chris and Star when everything 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:42.320 is like all pals ready to go um, and I 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:49.320 was like, no, movie, don't. Yeah, it's like we missed 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:55.560 every second of growth in may We missed their packed 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:59.320 to stick together, which I thought was super important. Yeah, 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:02.479 and I think that we do have those moments as 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:07.440 people of color, and I mean it's real, and even 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:09.480 if you were not of the same color, of the 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.800 same community, within your color, it's like when we are 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:15.280 in primarily white spaces where like I got you, I 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:17.680 see you, I'm here to stick up for you. I 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:20.160 went to Cachella with a large group of people one 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:22.840 time and only one other person was a person of color, 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:25.159 and I felt super left out of everything that was 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:28.480 happening with my group and they were exceedingly rude to 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:30.200 me in a lot of instances, and the only other 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:32.680 person of color in the group was the one who 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:35.560 was like there for me at every turn. And I 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:39.960 saw that and I recognized that, and it was very 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:43.760 if there was a kinship there where he was like, no, 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:45.720 I see you, and I see what they're doing to you. 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:48.080 And neither of us wanted to be like, hey, you 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:50.680 guys are fucked up. And there wasn't anything we could 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:53.200 point to specifically that was like, ah, you called Karama 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:56.879 the N word. But there was something there and he 0:21:57.000 --> 0:21:58.880 saw it. He made sure I was included at every 0:21:58.920 --> 0:22:03.280 turn when everyone was trying you know, Yeahma, we gotta go. 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:06.280 Then this book club is going to Coachello when things 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:11.399 can happen again. Absolutely, it's very hot there though I 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:13.800 don't know if you don't want to know, it sounds terrible, 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:19.159 but I've got a lot of Palusa and stay at 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:23.359 my parents house. Great, okay, awesome. You promised me that 0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:26.200 I could come and visit your parents, So I'm taking 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:27.720 you up my mom and dad. They I mean, my 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.040 parents say they listened to this podcast. Let's call their 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:32.600 bluff if you listen to this. Uh. I hope, I 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:35.040 hope Karama's coming and everyone's coming to come to l 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:37.920 of Palusa. I can't wait. Put us up for free. 0:22:37.960 --> 0:22:49.520 Schwartz is this is popcorn book Club we'll be right 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:58.840 back after this quick break. Okay, we're back with Popcorn 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:04.240 Book Club a moment before we move on. Um. I 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:07.679 love in this part that Star lies about period cramps 0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:13.119 to get picked up by uncle, because I'm just like, again, 0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:16.480 you are reminded that these are teenagers. They're like so young, 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:19.240 and like, how many of us have lied about period cramps? 0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:25.200 I have lied about about what? Oh, I certainly did. 0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:30.320 I also do what I felt like. Another sweet detail 0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:33.280 about that to me was you could see how Carlos 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:36.440 is this father figure, Like if it was not a 0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:39.560 father figure, Like, could you imagine at sixteen telling anyone 0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:42.800 but your mom and dad even that you have period 0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:46.280 cramps or like you know, or any man, any other 0:23:46.359 --> 0:23:48.720