1 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: It's the big take from Bloomberg News and I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: I'm West Caasova. Today, the daily diets of people around 3 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: the world are starting to look more and more alike, 4 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: and not in a good way. Go to a restaurant 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: these days and there's a decent chance the menu will 6 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: boast how the chef uses only local seasonal ingredients. But 7 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: the fact is, in our daily lives, most of us 8 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 1: are eating an ever narrower selection of the thousands of 9 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: edible plants the planet has to offer, and many of 10 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: them are from big industrial producers like the US, that 11 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: grow vast amounts of grain and export it the world over. 12 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: Diets in Beijing in Boston were once pretty different. Now 13 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: the Western diet, carb heavy, pizza, bread and fat ask 14 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: food has spread across the globe. Here's a non scientific 15 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: survey we gathered a somewhat arbitrary group of people from 16 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: all over the place are leaving Canada, England, India. I 17 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: live in Rhonda, I live in France, the US. I'm 18 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: from Scotland, but I do live in Turkey. I'm an 19 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: Australian living in the United Kingdom. I live in the Netherlands. 20 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: I live in Norway, and we asked them, what's your 21 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: favorite take out the food you crave? My favorite takeaway 22 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: is Indian food, certainly something Southeast Asian pet ti. It's 23 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: either usually like a breed or some kind of wrap 24 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: which is like a Turkish version of pizza. So bread 25 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: of course, my goats, who is usually any Mexican sushi 26 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: can already be Pizza McDonald and fiza. I really do 27 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: enjoy a good fast food chicken sandwich. My favorite takeaway 28 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: is pizza. My your favorite takeaway east tacos. My favorite 29 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: takeaway as probably tai So why does it matter if 30 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: tacos and pizza are taking over the planet and our 31 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: diets include more foods made from grains, fruits, and vegetables 32 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: that are shipped in from far away. My colleagues Jasmine 33 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: Ung and Gin Wou join me now from Singapore to 34 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: explain they're out with a deeply reported story about some 35 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: of the unexpected risks posed by this increasing global dependency 36 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: on a handful of crops. Jasmine Young and Jin Woo, 37 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: thanks so much for being here, Thank you for having us, 38 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: Glad to be here with us. In your story, you 39 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: write about this enormous global trend which is that diets 40 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: around the world are becoming more and more alike. Where 41 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,839 Speaker 1: before around the world people would eat differently, would eat 42 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: local foods, Now people are eating the same sorts of foods. 43 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: Can you describe what's happened? So our story is based 44 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 1: on this idea that you know, it doesn't matter where 45 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: you are in the world, our diets are looking more 46 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: and more similar. And in the past sixty years or so, 47 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: the biggest changes that we have seen are in Asian 48 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: Africa towards a more universal diet. And what that looks 49 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: like is something that resembles a typical Western diet. You know, 50 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: things like hamburgers, sandwiches, steaks, potato, chips, and even cakes. 51 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: And while it's true there on a country by country 52 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: basis chances that that we have access to a wider 53 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: variety of food than our parents are grandparents did, but 54 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: as a whole, you know that shift is causing the 55 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: whole world to become overly dependent on a handful of 56 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: staple crops. And there are mainly rice, weed and mace 57 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: and which is you know, the same as corn. And 58 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: in fact, today over sixty of the world's daily calorie 59 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: intake is made up of just those three staple crops 60 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: around the world. You're saying sixty of our calories are 61 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: coming from just those three crops. That's right, and we're 62 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: seeing those crops become a bigger and bigger part of 63 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: meal time. And then those are the placing you know, 64 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: native crops like cassava and saga, which were once very 65 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: important to local diets, but today some people might not 66 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: even have heard about them. We asked the same group 67 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: of people you heard earlier professing their love for pizza 68 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: and fast food, among other things, how important bread, the 69 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: quintessential wheat product is to them. Bread is very important, 70 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: is one of our staples, and we buy it every week. 71 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: Brand is really important for me. I like it a 72 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 1: lot and I eat it every day. For me, bread 73 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: is a sense of for lunch and dinner, very important. 74 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: Bred is obviously very important to me as well as 75 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: to the country, very important. Growing up, there was a 76 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: loaf of Italian bread on the table at dinner every night. 77 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: I don't think bread is very important to me. I 78 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: feel like it's one of my staples that I could 79 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: most easily go without. Bread is a pretty important part 80 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: of a Turkish diet. How important is bread to me, 81 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: it's very portant. Actually, I really love bread. I think 82 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, in all my life, for breakfast, 83 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: sometimes long sometimes for dinner, I bread every single day. 84 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: I guess about two or three slices every day. So 85 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 1: I'd say it's pretty important. Bread is pretty important to me. 86 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: It's really important. Bread is really important to me. It's 87 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: a part of my daily life. Jin How did our 88 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: diets all converge? There are a lot of factors behind 89 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: those increasing similarities. Economic growth and rising incomes are definitely 90 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: a big reason why we're seeing these massive changes, mainly 91 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: in Asia and Africa, you know, with people moving away 92 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: from basic staples and adding more meat, dairy and processed foods. 93 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: And the other thing is industrial mass production, and it's 94 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: also a key driver. It has happened in every industry, 95 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: including agriculture and food. There's a lot that goes into 96 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: industrializing our food system, from the companies that sell seeds 97 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: and fertilize us to farm us, to the producers who 98 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: buy the raw ingredients and process them, and eventually to 99 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: the consumers. So this simulate efficient system has contributed to 100 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: our prosperity. It helps businesses reap economies of scale and 101 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: produce really large quantities of food for our massive population 102 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: across the globe for a relatively small price. Gen, can 103 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: you give some examples of what you're talking about. How 104 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: would a diet, say in China or Singapore where you 105 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: are right now, in Japan, or in countries in Africa, 106 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 1: how would they have been sixty years ago and what 107 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:48,799 Speaker 1: do they look like now? Yeah, it's great you mentioned 108 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: China because China is actually one of the biggest changes 109 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: we observed from our analysis, and I think that was 110 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: highly related to its booming economy in the past several decades. 111 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: So you know, Chinese consumers now have access to more 112 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: choices of food, especially with all the restaurants selling foreign cuisines, 113 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: and they can afford more expensive ingredients such as you know, 114 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: meat and seafood. So take my personal experience as an example. Actually, 115 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: I grew up in China and my parents still lived there. 116 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: For them, a typical breakfast nowadays often includes bread, milk, eggs, 117 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: and sometimes cereal, and almost every day after dinner they 118 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: would also have some yogurts. These were not something we 119 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: usually ate when I was little back in my childhood, 120 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: like twenty plus thirty years ago. A typical breakfast included 121 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: above clanji or something we called power fan. You know, 122 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: you just put water into a bow, leftover rice, some 123 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: soy milk or fine toi and like rice rolls. So 124 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: basically a lot of rice. And if we look back 125 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: and further to the nineteen sixties and seventies, a typical 126 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 1: Chinese diet MI include a lot of sweet potatoes and 127 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: bonds or pancakes made from SGA and flour, millets or maize. 128 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: Of course, China is very big, so the diets look 129 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: different in various provinces, but in general very little protein 130 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: is the disposable income of an honorary Chinese consumer was 131 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: much lower back then, and many things were not even 132 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: available even if you had money. But if we fast 133 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: forward to now, port has become China's most widely eating meat. 134 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: It's actually providing about ten percent of our daily calorie intake. 135 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: So every weekend morning the cafes across the nation are 136 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: also packed with people grabbing French toasts and coffee. And 137 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,959 Speaker 1: we hardly eat food made with millets and sgam anymore. 138 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: You know, the main things I mentioned in the nineties 139 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: sixties diets and too many people sweet potato is something 140 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: healthy that actually they eat once in a while just 141 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 1: to gain more fibers. Imagine if you go to a 142 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: restaurant with a friend and she orders a plate of 143 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: food that represents the Chinese diet, and you get one 144 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: that represents the Chinese diet, as they will look very different. 145 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: So we've talked about how the industrialization and mass production 146 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: of certain foods spreading around the world is contributing to 147 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: our diets kind of converging and becoming more alike. You're 148 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: writing your story about how imports have become a big 149 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 1: part of this. That countries used to grow a lot 150 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: of their own foods and more and more now they're 151 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: getting their foods from a smaller number of countries. Yeah, 152 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 1: that's right. So what these dietary changes mean is that 153 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: there is now a greater competition for a limited number 154 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: of crops. And the war Uklein and the impact it's 155 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: had on foot prices and supply around the world, it's 156 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: a very clear example why having similar diets as a problem. 157 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: Earlier this year we saw, you know, Russia's invasion of 158 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: Ukraine cutoff exports from a region that is known as 159 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: the bread basket of the world. Because it accounts for 160 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: a quarter of global weak trade. And on top of that, 161 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: we had bad weather like droughts, flooding, heat waves that 162 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: damage production of wheat. From the US to France to 163 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: India and just about every major producing region was facing 164 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: one threat on another and the result was rampant foot inflation. 165 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: You know, food prices were staring everywhere, and for import 166 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 1: dependent countries, the shop was huge. The country's most affected 167 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: tend to be those in the global South, and many 168 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,839 Speaker 1: of them are lower middle to lower income countries, mainly 169 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: in Africa and the Middle East. And you know, Egypt 170 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: is the world's top importer of wheat and buys most 171 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: of its supply from Russian Ukraine. And after the war, 172 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: you know, there were reports of breadlines, concerns that such 173 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: countries would be at risk of bread shortages, and there 174 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: were fears that this would lead to political unrest similar 175 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: to Arab spring. And it's not just that emerging countries 176 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: to experienced problems. You know, there are also issues for 177 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: rich countries. The war in Ukraine has called exports of 178 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:09,559 Speaker 1: grains and vegetable oils, which push global prices to record highs, 179 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: and that added the pressures from the pandemic from high 180 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: energy costs and also labor shortages in developed countries. And 181 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: in the UK we saw grocery inflation hit the highest 182 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: in decades. You know, British shoppers are having to switch 183 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: to discount supermarkets and buying more store brand items, and 184 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: they're cutting back on non in central spending and buying 185 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,079 Speaker 1: you know, monkey vegetables or imperfect produced just to try 186 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: to save money. And in the US at the recent Thanksgiving, 187 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: price increases for flour and cookies hit a record high 188 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: for October, and all of these products that made from wheat, 189 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: and there are reports of bread costing as much as 190 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: ten dollars to loaf in some places. And it's very 191 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: ironic because US is one of the largest wheat exporters 192 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 1: in the world. And you know, this just goes to 193 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: show that no country, whether you're a producer or consumer, 194 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: developed or developing nation, can be insulated from price spikes 195 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: and supply shocks when the world it's all going after 196 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 1: the same few staple crops. My conversation with Jasmine on 197 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: and jin Wi continues after the break. Jin can you 198 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: tell us what are the countries mainly responsible for exporting 199 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: these goods? Around the world, and what are the countries 200 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: that are mainly dependent on importing all of these grains 201 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: and other global products. So what we find from our 202 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:40,079 Speaker 1: reporting and analyzing data from the United Nations is that majority, 203 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: or if not all, all of these major staple crops, 204 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: the supplots of exports were controlled by a very small 205 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: number of countries. And for many of these major crops, 206 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: these kind of exports were controlled by higher incombinations, which 207 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: making the most vulnerable countries even more vulnerable. We can 208 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: take rice as an example, and rice is actually one 209 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: of the few staple crops that's not heavily controlled by 210 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: higher income countries because we know like India is actually 211 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: a very big producer and exporter of rice, and we 212 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: also have Asian countries like Thailand, Vietnam, Pakistan and then 213 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: followed by US. And that's what the rice explore control 214 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: looks like. But if you go to crops like wheat, 215 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: wheat is a crop that has huge problems over the 216 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: years due to the war in Ukraine and one of 217 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: the major exporter of wheat was we all know that 218 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: Russian and Ukraine's but most of the other major exporters 219 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: of wheat, our countries like u US, Canada, France, Australia. 220 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: So if we look at the country categorization by income groups, 221 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: all of the low income countries are net importers of wheat, 222 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: and majority of the lower income countries like lower middle 223 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: income countries are also net important of wait except countries 224 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 1: like India and in Ukraine. Gen How has this consolidation 225 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:18,079 Speaker 1: of diets affected health? I mean, the Western diet people 226 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: want it, but it's not known as exactly the world's 227 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: healthiest diet. It's high end carbs, it's high in fat. 228 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: Has that affected the health of people who are now 229 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: moving toward a Western diet as opposed to traditional diets? 230 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: In actually many countries there is this quite interesting but 231 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: also troublesome situation going on. It's like we have under 232 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: nutrition and obesity happening at the same time, and these 233 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: two issues are actually increasingly connected due to rapid changes 234 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: in countries food systems. One big reason why it happened 235 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: was our higher reliance on processed or sometimes like ultra 236 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: processed food. You know, it's food that's made by industrial 237 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: processing and often contains addictives such as flavors, colors. So 238 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: a bag of sliced bread is an ultra processed food. 239 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: A piece of cake is a pizza, could be a fruit. 240 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: Yogurt could be ultra processed food. A scoop of ice 241 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: creams that eat often there's also part of that, and 242 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: of course instant noodles. I think this increasing popularity of 243 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: Western diets like you mentioned, in many cases are could 244 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: be fast food. You know, instant food definitely brings a 245 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: lot of health concerns to the global populations. You know, 246 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: their health reads associated with a global diet that depends 247 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: on just a few staple crops. People around the world 248 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: are consuming more calories, more protein, more fat as to 249 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: rely on a short list of food crops like wheat, 250 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: mas and soybean, along with meat and dairy products. So 251 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: this westernized diet that souping the world has contributed to 252 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: a rising global obesity, which has you know, nearly tripled 253 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: since the nineteen seventies, has also led to the spread 254 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: of metabolic diseases like diabetes, and in both war and 255 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: rich countries. You know, people are just seeking out the 256 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: lowest cost glories and that might exclude things that make 257 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: up a balanced diet, like you know, fruits and vegetables 258 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: because they tend to cost more, and the result is malnutrition, 259 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: which is defined by number one, you know, not just 260 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: having enough to eat and to not eating enough of 261 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: the right things. So eating a light isn't just unhealthy 262 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: and boring. It's like owning a portfolio with very few stocks, 263 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: and it's very vulnerable to any kind of disaster. One 264 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: of the things that you write about is how this 265 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: reliance and fewer and fewer crops has led to neglected crops. 266 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: What are neglected crops and what is the effect of that. 267 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: We have like five thousand fruit crops globally, but we 268 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: are actually now only eating a very small array of them. 269 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 1: So there was this idea of neglected crops, sometimes also 270 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: being called underutilized crops. They're usually domesticated species used in 271 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: previous centuries for food, but in recent times have been 272 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 1: reduced in importance. So many experts actually believe these neglected 273 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: crops might provide an answer to our food system problems, 274 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: as many of them are more climate resilient and actually 275 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: richer in nutrients. I want to bring in Stefan Schmidt's here. 276 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 1: He's executive director of Crop Trust and he spends his 277 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: days thinking about what foods people eat and where it 278 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 1: comes from. We'll hear more from him in a minute, 279 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: but he has an interesting point to make about what 280 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: Jasmine just said. We had more than five hundred apple 281 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: varieties in Europe a hundred years ago. When you look 282 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 1: at genetics of apples these days, they derive from just 283 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: six varieties we all know, and that is a very 284 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: dangerous narrowing of the corridor. We need to build on 285 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: the diversity we have. The diversity of food is the 286 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: raw material for breeding new varieties. What we see as 287 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: the current and potential feature disruptions in trade. We start 288 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: to see more and more governments actually thinking about bringing 289 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: back these marginalized crops as alternate staples. But in order 290 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 1: for many of these neglected crops to be common stable, 291 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: a robust supply chain actually it will be essential. That 292 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: might include things such as improving farmers fields and maybe 293 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 1: modernizing how these crops are actually processed. Gin Wu and 294 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: Jasmine Ill, thanks so much for joining me today. Thank 295 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: you with but the pleasure. Thank you for having us west. 296 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: When we come back. What are developing countries doing in 297 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: the face of all this, and what does it mean 298 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: for the developed world. Stefan Schmidt joins me now he's 299 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: the executive director of Crop Trust based in Bond, Germany. Stefan, 300 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: thanks so much for being here. Hi. Can you tell 301 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: us what Crop Trust does? The Global Crop Diversity Trust, 302 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 1: or crop Trust for short, was established eighteen years ago 303 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: to provide support to provide funding for seed banks for 304 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: gene banks around the globe. Those gene banks posts the 305 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: collections of the most important crops that will secure food 306 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: security for mankind in the future. And so this is 307 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: really in an enormous vault filled with all varieties of 308 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 1: species to protect them from extinction. Yes, all crops, all 309 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: plans that are suitable for consumption for agriculture is collected 310 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: in various gene banks around the globe and we provide funding. 311 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 1: We provide support in particular to those gene banks in 312 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: the Global South that do not have the capacities to 313 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: provide funding themselves. And this plays very well into the 314 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 1: conversation that we're having here today, which is all about 315 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: diversity in the food that people eat around the world, 316 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: and how what used to be a great variety of 317 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 1: crops has now narrowed to relatively few that people consume. Yes, 318 00:20:54,880 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 1: absolutely It is amazing what mankind, what farmers around the 319 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: world over the last twelve thousand years, created amazing diversity. 320 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:13,880 Speaker 1: There are twenty thousand edible plants on Earth. Six thousands 321 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: of them have historically been used as food. Just nine 322 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: account for two thirds of food production. These are the 323 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: usual suspect. We all know it's weed, its rice, its maze, potato, 324 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 1: and ends on. But we must not forget that there 325 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 1: is an incredible diversity of edible plants, old land races, 326 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: also the crop wild relatives that are so important for 327 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: food security. When we are facing climate change in particular, 328 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: can you describe how this would affect the global supply. Yes, 329 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: those the ieties of wheat, for example, we use today 330 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: will in many cases no longer be suitable for planting 331 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: and harvesting in twenty thirty years from now, when it's warmer, 332 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: when plants need to be better adapted, too longer, droughts, 333 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: too higher rainfall. So breeders start to look now for 334 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 1: those old varieties and crop wied relatives that are in 335 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 1: nature that holds the genetic traits that are able to 336 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: cope better with heat and drought, and they have to 337 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 1: use these old varieties for breeding purposes to bring these 338 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: old traits back into the crops for the future. How 339 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: are those old versions of these crops being brought back? 340 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 1: Is this something that is being taken from the seed 341 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: banks to try growing them? Exactly? That is exactly where 342 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: the seed banks, where the gene banks come into play. 343 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: They house thousands of old varieties of wheat and maize 344 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: and rice, but also those thousands of varieties of lesser 345 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: known species like a sorgum or millet a. Scientists and 346 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: breeders today know where those old varieties are housed. We 347 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: have established a huge information system, so everybody knows around 348 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: the world which old varieties are collected in gene banks, 349 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: and those science is those breeders can ask for duplicates 350 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: of those varieties. They will receive it and then they 351 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: use it for their breeding purposes. That is not an 352 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: easy job. It sometimes takes years. It's try and error. 353 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: You need many growing cycles until you get to that 354 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 1: point where a new variety is ready to be planted 355 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: and harvest. When you look down the road, do you 356 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: see that we are going to have a different future 357 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: that includes many different kinds of grains. I am convinced 358 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: that ten twenty years from now, we will have a 359 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: complete different landscape of what we see as crops growing 360 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: in the fields. There will other crops and there will 361 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: be a greater variety. Again, we do not have any 362 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: other choice. We have to start today being prepared for 363 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 1: that future and make use of the diversity we have 364 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: and create a newer a diversity. So Stefan, give us 365 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 1: a preview when we go into a grocery store, when 366 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: we go into a restaurant a decade from now, what 367 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: are some of the foods we're going to be eating 368 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 1: that we would not even think of today. Perhaps millet. 369 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: Let's take millet compared to wheat. It requires less water input, 370 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: can withstand higher temperatures. So in future, I see a 371 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: great opportunity for millet to be grown ten twenty thirty 372 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: years from now, and I'm sure that it will appear 373 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: on the menu of restaurants in many parts of the world. 374 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: We have to change our diets anyway, and that is 375 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: again where seed banks come into play. There are speed 376 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: banks that house hundreds and thousands of different kinds of 377 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: fruits and legumes that are ready to be used for 378 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: more healthy diets in the future. Today, many people around 379 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: the world simply cannot afford food and vegetables, so we 380 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: have to put more effort into research into breeding of 381 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: new varieties of fruits and vegetables to make it affordable 382 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:50,199 Speaker 1: for people all around the world. Steven Schmidtz, thanks so 383 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: much for speaking with me today. You can read more 384 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: from Jasmine on and gin wo and Bloomberg dot com. 385 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to us here at The Big Take, 386 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: the daily podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. 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