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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio News joining us now for

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Speaker 1: an exclusive conversation. I'm happy to say Admirable Rob Bauer,

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Speaker 1: chair of the NATO Military Committee, admirble a pleasure to

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Speaker 1: have you on the program. We thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for joining. Let's start there. It's been a wild week

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Speaker 1: in terms of US politics. As we just said, President

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Speaker 1: Trump has made some pretty strong comments, even threatening to

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Speaker 1: leave NATO altogether. In that scenario, who is best positioned

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Speaker 1: within the alliance to step up?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think, good morning, Cretty. I think that what

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Speaker 2: happens in NATO is important for the US, So I

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Speaker 2: think in that sense it is in the interest of

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Speaker 2: all the allies, including the US, that the alliance is strong.

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Speaker 2: It is strong at the moment, stronger than ever actually,

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Speaker 2: and we talked, the Ministers of Defense talked yesterday about,

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Speaker 2: for example, the increase in the budgets and the fact

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Speaker 2: that so many more nations now step up deliver on

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Speaker 2: the two percent pledge. It's now eighteen nations out of

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Speaker 2: the thirty one, so that is moving in the right direction.

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Speaker 2: That is not money for NATO. The money that we're

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Speaker 2: talking about here is money that nations invest in their

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Speaker 2: own armed forces, to make their own armed forces stronger

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Speaker 2: so that they can defend themselves in accordance with Article

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Speaker 2: three of the treaty. And I think that is all happening.

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Speaker 2: We have great now plans in place. We're working on

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Speaker 2: the executability of all that. It requires more people, more capabilities,

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Speaker 2: more military training, and all that was discussed during the

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Speaker 2: Defense Ministerial. There's a lot of work to be done,

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Speaker 2: but I think NATO is in a great place at

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Speaker 2: the moment, and therefore I'm not really concerned about this.

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Speaker 1: Well, Adil talks a little about that two percent pledge.

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Speaker 1: Here at the moment, the United States makes up over

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Speaker 1: two thirds of the military expenditures at the moment, given

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Speaker 1: the growing risks from Russia in particular and perhaps others

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Speaker 1: in the future, could you see that two percent pledge

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Speaker 1: start to see any sort of pressure on the upside?

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Speaker 2: Well, the agreement in the Vilnius Summit was a minimum

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Speaker 2: of two percent. And actually these discussions on the money

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Speaker 2: is not on the money itself. This money is necessary

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Speaker 2: for making these plans I was talking about executable, so

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Speaker 2: to deliver on all the things that we need. As

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Speaker 2: I said, more readier soldiers, more capabilities, more training. All

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Speaker 2: that requires more money, and therefore the discussion was on

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Speaker 2: a minimum of two percent. And therefore there is a

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Speaker 2: RECOGNI in the Alliance that we might need more than

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Speaker 2: the two percent. That's why the formulation was what it was.

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Speaker 2: So if it needs, if we need more money, as

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Speaker 2: we see in a number of nations already, then nations

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Speaker 2: are investing more in their armed forces. Poland is a

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Speaker 2: good example of the Baltic States. Of course other nations

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Speaker 2: as well. So that is why we see the ramping

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Speaker 2: up in the funding, because the nations understand that they

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Speaker 2: need to invest more in their armed forces.

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Speaker 3: Think about good morning to you, Admiral Bauer. So the

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Speaker 3: European nations are stepping up, you say, and spending more

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Speaker 3: on their own defense. And these comments that we hear

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Speaker 3: coming from the US political campaign, of course, come at

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Speaker 3: a time when you're trying to project an image of

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Speaker 3: resilience and deterrence against Russia. How much do these comments

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Speaker 3: complicate your ability to stand firm in the face of Russia.

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Speaker 2: I didn't hear your question completely because of the traffic

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Speaker 2: behind me. But if you mean how ready is NATO,

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Speaker 2: is that the question?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I was asking how much it complicates your ability

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Speaker 3: to be strong in the face of Russia when we

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Speaker 3: hear comments such as those made by former President Trump.

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Speaker 2: Well, the unity in our alliance is one of our

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Speaker 2: biggest strengths, the fact that we stand for each other

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Speaker 2: with each other in the phase of an adversary, and

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Speaker 2: I think that is extremely important. We've shown that when

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Speaker 2: the war in the full invasion in Ukraine happened. Within

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Speaker 2: an hour the North Atlantic Council had an agreement on

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Speaker 2: the things we had to do. It was not just

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Speaker 2: a statement. Forty thousand troops came under command of the

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Speaker 2: Supreme Allied Command of Europe. Airplanes, hundreds of airplanes were

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Speaker 2: in the air, hundreds of ships where at sea under

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Speaker 2: command of NATO, and that in itself was an enormously

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Speaker 2: powerful message for Russia to make sure that they understood

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Speaker 2: that NATO will respond when we are seeing that thread rise.

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Speaker 2: And I think that is what we did as an alliance.

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Speaker 2: So I think the fact that we did what we are,

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Speaker 2: what we are here for, is actually the reassurance.

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Speaker 3: You are talking about the admiral the money masses, of course,

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Speaker 3: and then there's what you're able to do with it,

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Speaker 3: and produce with it. Do you think we need to

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Speaker 3: see more incentives for more military production to take place

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Speaker 3: within Europe?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely across the alliance, in the US, in Canada and

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Speaker 2: in Europe, we need to increase defense production to a

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Speaker 2: great extent. We see that the Russian production in the

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Speaker 2: Russian defense industry is being remped up much faster than

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Speaker 2: all of us help pussible. The economy in Russia has

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Speaker 2: turned into a war economy. What we need to do

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Speaker 2: is to make sure that we are able to continue

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Speaker 2: to support Ukraine for as long as it takes, with

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Speaker 2: whatever it takes. And then the second thing is we

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Speaker 2: need the capabilities and the ammunition for ourselves as well

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Speaker 2: to be more ready. So what we have seen is

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Speaker 2: a longer discussion in Europe on not only are we

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Speaker 2: going to do this, but also convincing financial institutions to

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Speaker 2: invest in defense. This is the liberal economies that we

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Speaker 2: are living in. So this is about convincing the investors

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Speaker 2: to make sure that all the regulations are in place

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Speaker 2: to build a new factory. So there's now some good

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Speaker 2: examples in Germany where a new Patriot factory is going

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Speaker 2: to be set up. There's a new factory for artillery

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Speaker 2: ammunition in Germany, in Denmark, in Finland. So things are happening.

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Speaker 2: It took a while, and we need to continue doing that,

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Speaker 2: ramping up the industrial production, convincing the financial sector is

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Speaker 2: to invest in defense well.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of Ukraine and particularly in the support there, admirable,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious about how you're assessing their progress on the

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Speaker 1: battlefield and where else outside of Ukraine you may see

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Speaker 1: the risk spilling over to from Russia. Give us a

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Speaker 1: little bit of status update if you can.

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Speaker 2: We don't see a direct spillover in terms of a

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Speaker 2: conflict with other nations or with NATO. It is very

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Speaker 2: difficult at the front line in Ukraine. The new commander

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Speaker 2: of the Armed Forces in Ukraine, General Sirsky, said so

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Speaker 2: himself yesterday. The front is heavy fighting. It's amazing how

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Speaker 2: many lives lost. The Russians basically accept in this battle.

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Speaker 2: As I said, the Russian defense industry is ramped up,

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Speaker 2: so the Russians have more artillery ammunition at the moment,

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Speaker 2: which they are using heavily. They are using a lot

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Speaker 2: of soldiers that are being killed in large numbers. It's amazing.

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Speaker 2: So it is a difficult time for the Ukrainians, and

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Speaker 2: therefore it is extremely important we continue to support them

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Speaker 2: with everything that they need and for as long as

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Speaker 2: it takes. So that is what we need to do.

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Speaker 2: And I think if you would have asked in the

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Speaker 2: Second World War after two years on a number of allies,

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Speaker 2: how are things going, then at that time it was

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Speaker 2: difficult as well. So we didn't start to support Ukraine

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Speaker 2: because it was going to be easy, but because it

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Speaker 2: is necessary.

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Speaker 1: Admirly, you're talking about Russia's growing defense capabilities as well.

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Speaker 1: Just in the last twenty four to forty eight hours

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Speaker 1: of the United States, there's been talk about Russia's military

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Speaker 1: capabilities in space, traditionally targeting satellites as well. NATO has

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Speaker 1: come out and said that fifty percent of the satellites

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Speaker 1: around the world are owned by NATO allies helps with

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Speaker 1: things like missile detection. I don't need to tell you this,

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Speaker 1: how seriously are you taking that threat?

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Speaker 3: Have you been briefed on it?

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Speaker 1: What is NATO's line.

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Speaker 2: NATO will look into every threat that we're facing three

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Speaker 2: hundred and sixty degrees that is on land, at sea,

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Speaker 2: in the air, in cyber and so also in space,

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Speaker 2: and that's everything I'm not going to speculate on this,

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Speaker 2: so we are looking at this, of course, as we

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Speaker 2: are looking at all the other threats that are around US.

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Speaker 3: Admiral bouth thanks very much for joining us. Rob Bauer,

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Speaker 3: NATO's chair of the Military Committee,