WEBVTT - NATO Secretary General  Jens Stoltenberg Talks Tenure with NATO & Ongoing Politics

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<v Speaker 1>John to gets now around this table.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm really pleased to say the outgoing NATO's Secretary General

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<v Speaker 2>Jen Steldenburg, departing the organization after a decade, Sarah's.

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<v Speaker 1>Good to see you.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks much for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for Sharon what I believe is your final interview.

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<v Speaker 3>It is.

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<v Speaker 4>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>So you've been very kind to Bloomberg over the years,

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<v Speaker 2>and every time we spoken to you over the last decade,

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<v Speaker 2>you've always been generous with your time, So thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for that.

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<v Speaker 2>If I think back at your tenure over the last decade,

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<v Speaker 2>I can think of two really big wake up calls.

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<v Speaker 1>For the organization.

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<v Speaker 2>One was Trump being elected in twenty sixteen and really

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<v Speaker 2>putting the foot on the throat of some of the

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<v Speaker 2>people who were part of this organization to spend more

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<v Speaker 2>on defense. The other was the invasion of Russia into

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<v Speaker 2>Ukraine more recently in.

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<v Speaker 1>The last couple of years.

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<v Speaker 2>As you step back and think about your tenure the

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<v Speaker 2>last decade, what stood out for you.

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<v Speaker 5>The most?

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<v Speaker 3>Of course decisive and was it an important challenge we've

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<v Speaker 3>faced also a Russian full scale invasion of Ukraine. But

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<v Speaker 3>you have to remember that the war in Ukraine didn't

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<v Speaker 3>start in twenty twenty two. It started in twenty fourteen

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<v Speaker 3>when Russia went in and took Cromea, and since then,

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<v Speaker 3>over the last decade, NATO has implemented the biggest reinforcement

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<v Speaker 3>or collected events because of Russia's annexation of Crimea. So

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<v Speaker 3>when the full scale nation happened in twenty two, we

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<v Speaker 3>were prepared. We had more forces on higher edness for

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<v Speaker 3>the first time, but the groups in eastern partolions. So

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<v Speaker 3>when it happened in the full scale vation, we were

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<v Speaker 3>able to step up our support for Ukraine and increase

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<v Speaker 3>some interpresence in the eastern potodions. So Ukraine has been

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<v Speaker 3>that throughout my tenure, but it has gotten worse.

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<v Speaker 5>Let's talk about the potential path forward for Ukraine, especially

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<v Speaker 5>given the fact that we have this US election looming

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<v Speaker 5>over the crisis. Donald Trump was talking yesterday about Zelenski,

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<v Speaker 5>saying that he was making nasty aspersions about him that

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<v Speaker 5>had to do with this New Yorker article I'm sure

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<v Speaker 5>you've seen, but he said about JD.

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<v Speaker 3>Vans.

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<v Speaker 5>Also the fact that he went to Pennsylvania, which is

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<v Speaker 5>a swing state in this country. Do you think Zelensky

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<v Speaker 5>miscalculated this political situation right now in the United States.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm called the install President Zelensky is ready to work

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<v Speaker 3>with whoever is elected as president in the United States.

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<v Speaker 3>And also know that President Zelensky worked with President Trump

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<v Speaker 3>when he was President of the United States. And also

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<v Speaker 3>that during that time, actually the United States increased its

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<v Speaker 3>military support to Ukraine. It was during the Trump administration

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<v Speaker 3>or the decision to provide lead laid javelins to Ukraine

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<v Speaker 3>was taken. So it's not for me and it's all

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<v Speaker 3>for President Lensky to have any opinion about who the

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<v Speaker 3>American people should elect, but we need to work with

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<v Speaker 3>whoever is elected to ensure continued support for Ukraine.

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<v Speaker 5>I guess I'm confused because there's been a change of

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<v Speaker 5>attitude from President Zelensky. He sat down with me in

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<v Speaker 5>July and basically said he wanted to get into rumor Trump.

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<v Speaker 5>He wanted to see the plan Trump had when he

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<v Speaker 5>says I have a path to victory. And now he

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<v Speaker 5>comes here and he's kind of poking the bear what

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<v Speaker 5>he says about his running mate. And the fact of

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<v Speaker 5>the matter is Trump is not going to be meeting

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<v Speaker 5>him along the sidelines of you and General Assembly, and

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<v Speaker 5>that probably goes back to what Zelenski has said about him.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know, not for me as Sector General of

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<v Speaker 3>NATO to try to aid to facilitate a meeting between

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<v Speaker 3>President and Selensky and Donald Trump. What I can do

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<v Speaker 3>is to convey to the United States, to all NATO

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<v Speaker 3>allies that it is important that we continue to support

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<v Speaker 3>Ukraine because this is not only about Ukraine, it's also

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<v Speaker 3>about our own security. If we allow President Putin to

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<v Speaker 3>win in Ukraine, it will be a strategy for Ukrainians

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<v Speaker 3>but also dangerous for us because then the message to

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<v Speaker 3>Preston Trump is that when he used military force, he

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<v Speaker 3>gets what he to President Putin is that when he

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<v Speaker 3>use military force, he gets what he wants. And that

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<v Speaker 3>will also be followed very closely in China. So this

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<v Speaker 3>is not only about Europe, but also about whether we

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<v Speaker 3>should allow author Italian leaders around the world to use

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<v Speaker 3>military force to.

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<v Speaker 1>Achieve what they want.

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<v Speaker 5>What I've been hearing from some of my sources in

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<v Speaker 5>the Trump administration is that they want to do similar

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<v Speaker 5>to what Trump did in the first round, which was

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<v Speaker 5>push NATO Alliance personally Alliance to have more of a

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<v Speaker 5>collective defense spending. Basically, now they would push for three percent.

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<v Speaker 5>How would you you know? Your advice to the incoming

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<v Speaker 5>secretary Channal on how to deal with that?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, first of all, I think we need to recognize

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<v Speaker 3>the enormous progress European allies have met have made because

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<v Speaker 3>back in twenty fourteen, only three allies met the guide

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<v Speaker 3>down spending two percent of GDP on defense. This year,

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<v Speaker 3>twenty three allies are spending two percent or more. But

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<v Speaker 3>you also made it clear that two percent is not enough.

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<v Speaker 3>So the good news is that we have met the

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<v Speaker 3>two percent target, but we need to do even more

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<v Speaker 3>because we live in a more dangerous world. And therefore

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<v Speaker 3>we agreed at our last summit that two percent is

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<v Speaker 3>in inimum, it's not a ceiling, it's a floor. And

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<v Speaker 3>also have agreed in NATO new Defense Plans, which requires

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<v Speaker 3>specific capabilities, forces readiness, and for allies to provide those forces,

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<v Speaker 3>we have agreed that they should provide. They have to

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<v Speaker 3>spend significantly more than two percent, whether it's two and

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<v Speaker 3>a half or three. I will not give you a

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<v Speaker 3>second number, but it's significantly more than two.

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<v Speaker 4>Do you think that NATO is significantly stronger or significantly

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<v Speaker 4>weaker than it was when you took the office.

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<v Speaker 3>There's no doubt that NATO is significantly stronger. We are

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<v Speaker 3>spending much more on the events, we have many more

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<v Speaker 3>troops on high readiness, we have more high end capabilities.

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<v Speaker 3>We have bad troops in these depart alliance. But the

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<v Speaker 3>challenge is that the world is more dangerous. So the

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<v Speaker 3>success of NATO is that when the world changes, we change,

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<v Speaker 3>and that's exactly what they have seen.

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<v Speaker 4>The issue is that NATO members may not agree on

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<v Speaker 4>where the dangers are and exactly how to deal with them.

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<v Speaker 4>How do you see NATO facing off with certain economic

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<v Speaker 4>and potential military threats from say China and other countries

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<v Speaker 4>where it's a little more complicated in terms of the members.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, we are thirty two allies, and of course sometimes

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<v Speaker 3>it takes time to make thirty two allies representing fifty

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<v Speaker 3>percent of the world's GDP, fifty percent of the world's

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<v Speaker 3>minteri mighty two agree. But the good news is that,

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<v Speaker 3>on for instance, China, we have come a very long way.

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<v Speaker 3>Not so many years ago, NATO didn't have any unified

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<v Speaker 3>policy on China. Now we have a very clear position

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<v Speaker 3>that China matters for our security, that China cannot continue

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<v Speaker 3>to enable Russia's war aggression against the Ukraine without consequences

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<v Speaker 3>for its interest and reputation. And allies have also agreed

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<v Speaker 3>that we need to work more closely with our partners

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<v Speaker 3>in the Pacific, Japan and South Korea, Australia as response

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<v Speaker 3>to what we see in China is today.

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<v Speaker 2>We could tell you all day, but we're running out

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<v Speaker 2>of time, so I have to squeeze this in and

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<v Speaker 2>it's rather selfish. Do you know a guy that might

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<v Speaker 2>be able to help us set up the show? Take

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<v Speaker 2>it on the road to the Ammuni Security Conference anytime?

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<v Speaker 2>So do you know someone we might be able to cool?

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<v Speaker 3>But you know, Livuning Security Conference is a very good

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<v Speaker 3>platform to just go security issues. But I will not

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<v Speaker 3>give you a specific name for it. Who can't help

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<v Speaker 3>you without.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll get in touch in a number of weeks time

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<v Speaker 2>and hopefully maybe that will change. Thank you, sir, thank you,

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<v Speaker 2>thank you so much for everything over the last decade.

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<v Speaker 1>We appreciate it. We're going to do. Thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>The NATO Secretary General Jen Stolenburg, there