WEBVTT - America's Existential Crisis 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.600 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WIKA F Daily with 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:18.960 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Brooklyn Bunker. Folks, 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:22.560 I want to start out this morning with unpacking an 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:26.920 article that our friend doctor Jonathan Metzo will reference in 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:30.319 our interview that is coming up next. And you know, 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:36.440 there are a lot of times UM when political analysts 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:42.960 scholars will dig into why they believe, um the Democratic 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:46.120 Party is facing the challenges that it is facing, why 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:51.120 Republicans seem to be able to win these culture wars 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:55.600 that they start, and they will offer in their deep 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:58.920 dives many of the reasons and the ways in which 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:04.399 Democrats need to stay away from progressivism, that Democrats need 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:09.360 to pay attention to quote unquote working class voters, and 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:11.880 so on and so forth. And I have to tell 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:16.520 you that I am really tired of having the same 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:20.000 conversations over and over again. And I'm also really tired 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:26.640 of folks having conversations and debates and totally disregarding the 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:30.920 role that race and racism plays. It is intellectually dishonest 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:35.360 to continue to have conversations about how and why our 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:40.280 democracy is failing and considering and continuing to have conversations 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:43.680 and talk about particular classes of voters, when in fact 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:46.120 you were just talking about white people and how to 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:49.600 keep white people happy so that the Democratic Party can win. 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:53.240 And when people continue to say things like, oh, well, 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:56.080 we need to go after swing voters and we need 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:59.680 to move at a pace that is comfortable for the majority, 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:04.160 what you are saying is that by even articulating the 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:10.760 reality that is racism and segregation in this country, that 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:14.760 Democrats will be doing themselves a disservice. That Republicans are 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:18.680 able to continue to use the politics of manipulation and 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:22.760 identity politics for their gain while stirring the pot for 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:27.639 their aggrieved white working class base. But that Democrats, if 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:31.919 you were to then actually peel apart the lump, the 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:36.120 lumping of people of color and have honest conversations about 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:40.240 the needs of these groups and how they are reflected 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:43.359 back in the needs of the majority of Americans, then 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:47.040 somehow you're going to piss off white people and then 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:50.720 you're going to lose everything. The fact remains, folks, and 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:52.920 I don't know how many fucking times that we have 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:56.799 to say this. White men don't vote for Democrats, White 0:02:56.800 --> 0:03:00.760 women don't vote for Democrats, they never fucking and they 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:05.239 never will again. Why because once the party opened itself 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:09.280 up to people of color and started to advance policies 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:13.600 and initiatives that would benefit those that were purposefully marginalized 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:17.000 and left out of the American dream, white people fled. 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.239 And so the only way to have an honest conversation 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:22.680 about the direction that this country is going to go 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:26.720 in is to say whether or not Democrats will once 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.480 again follow in the footsteps of Republicans and ignore their 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:35.560 growing base, ignore the Democratic the demographic shift, in favor 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:40.240 of continuing to go after and water down policies so 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:43.880 that white people remain fucking comfortable. There is no difference 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:45.880 in the article that I am about to read to 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:50.160 you and what it is that Dissantis is doing in 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:56.240 Florida to ensure that white Floridians remain comfortable, right, Because 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:00.160 until we decide that we are no longer going to 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.880 offer up a body politic that is centered on whiteness, 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:09.760 white wealth, white comfort, white growth, then we are never 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:13.600 going to actually solve the problems that are facing this country. 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:17.320 Because you see here in the conversation that Jonathan and 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.080 I will have, which I think is in my humble opinion, 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.120 one of the most important conversations that Jonathan and I 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:26.279 have had in the last two years together. It is 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.360 the most honest conversation that we have had, not just 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:32.719 talking about one particular issue, whether it's COVID or gun 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:36.839 rights or voting rights, but no talking about the collective right, 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:40.520 because that is the problem in general with America right now, 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:43.400 is that we don't talk about the collective, that we 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:47.200 don't talk about the community. That instead we only talk 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:51.000 about one group, and that is white people. And we 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:56.120 use every single fucking phrase and word to describe the 0:04:56.160 --> 0:05:00.719 needs of white people without journalists and analysts and scholars 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:03.839 actually using the word white. And I am tired of 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.880 the bullshit and we'll call it out. So here's this 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:10.119 article right now that was up in the Washington Post 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:15.479 earlier this week, and it's entitled Democrats are engaged in 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.800 a new politics of evasion that could cost them in 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.280 twenty twenty four, new study says, and it's written by 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.840 Dan Balls, who's the chief correspondent, and it brings up 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.240 this new report that is being done thirty three years 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:35.040 after the original by Elaine Camrack and William A. Gulston 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:38.640 and These are two scholars from the Brookings Institute that 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:42.960 initially wrote The Politics of Avasion back in nineteen eighty 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:47.800 nine after Mike Decoccus lost the presidential race. And this 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:54.000 was their examination because over the last several right they 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:58.040 believe it was the last six presidential elections between I 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:02.320 believe it is nineteen sixty eight and a nineteen eighty nine, 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:06.080 Democrats lost all but one Jimmy Carter, who would then 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:09.720 only go to serve one term. Republicans were winning all 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:12.520 of them, and not only winning, but winning the electoral 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:17.760 votes in a significant margin as compared to Democrats. Now, 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:20.440 we have to understand that what was happening thirty three 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:23.360 years ago, it's not the same as what is happening now. 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:27.080 Climate change wasn't even in our lexicon at that time, right. 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:31.719 And the fact is, while killings of black people, while 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.160 the racial wealth gap was still in existence, while all 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:38.080 of these things, we weren't having those conversations out in 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:41.239 the open because no one gave a shit about black people. 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.240 Now that's not to say that people actually care now, 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:47.400 because they do not. But I want to unpack pieces 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:50.600 of this article and pieces of the quotes that are 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:58.360 taken from the report that was done by this group, 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:05.120 these two political people at the Progressive Policy Institute. Excuse me, So, 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:10.600 these two folks, William Galston and Elaine Camerack wrote this 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.720 report initially thirty three years ago. They have revamped it 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:15.960 for the politics of this moment, and it's been covered 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:19.440 in the Washington Post. Here's one of their opening quotes. 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:25.200 A Democrat loss in a Democratic loss in the twenty 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:30.640 twenty four presidential election may well have a catastrophic consequences 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:36.960 for the country. We know this, right, We know that 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:41.040 there is catastrophic consequences. But I want you to understand 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.600 the three things that they believe are the pervasive myths 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:49.080 that Democrats have been organizing around or have been completely 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:52.320 disorganized around, depending on how you look at this picture. 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.320 But here is what they believe. The three things that 0:07:56.360 --> 0:08:01.440 are leading Democrats astray. Number one, people of color, the 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:05.160 grouping of people of color that they all think an 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:10.360 act alike. That's number one. Number two that economics Trump's culture. 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:14.640 And number three, which is one that I strongly disagree with, 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:19.120 a progressive majority is emerging. These are the myths that 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:24.720 they outline that Democrats actually need to understand. But I 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:32.280 want to read you this as well, because I find 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.199 all of this so like I want to scream. This 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:37.640 is why I'm taking my time. So this is directly 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:42.079 from the article quote. Their analysis is a centrist critique 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.640 of a party that they fear has moved too far 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:48.080 to the left and in the process increasingly has lost 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:51.480 touch with the swing voters right and I'm using air 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:54.320 quotes for those that are listening for the swing voters 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:58.480 who still have the power to decide elections. Its publication 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:02.600 comes a week after voters in San Francisco recalled three 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:05.320 members of the local school board in a battle that 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:09.000 underscored the limits of left wing politics even in such 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.559 a liberal city, and an outcome that's set off alarms 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:17.280 inside the party. Gallston and Camerack argue that in an 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:20.320 age of close elections, five of the past six were 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:25.040 decided by five points or fewer, mobilizing base voters is 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.960 not enough to assure success. Now, let me pause right here, 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:35.400 because that is utter and complete trash. Why do I 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:40.800 think that? Because all Republicans do is organize and strengthen 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:45.079 their base. Their base is white evangelical Christians that they 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:48.920 have been pushing forward their agenda for the last four 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:53.880 fucking decades. The problem with Democrats isn't that they actually 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:57.520 pander to their base, which they don't. All Democrats have 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:00.199 been doing over the past three and four decades is 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:04.480 pandering to the group of white working class Americans that 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:07.840 don't fuck with them and have never fucked with them. Right. 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:13.880 When have Democrats actually quote unquote tried to ensure the 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:19.959 success of their base, which is Black Americans, Latin X Americans, 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:25.440 LGBTQ Americans, those that live at the intersections, young Americans. Right, 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.320 when have they ever offered up policies that have been 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:33.840 polled that have said that if you do these things, 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.880 these people are with you. For instance, fucking voting rights 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:43.120 right number two, student loan debt relief number three, fucking 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:48.000 action on climate change. These are not quote unquote progressive 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:53.360 and overreaches in policy. They are actually the fundamentals of 0:10:53.559 --> 0:11:00.400 creating a secured democracy, right, One that allows people to 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.840 have financial freedom, one that allows them the liberty that 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.480 is said in our Creed, of being able to choose 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:09.679 their representatives and to create a government that is foreigned 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:13.120 by the people. And then the other is tackling Oh, 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:17.360 I don't know the existential of existential crises, which is 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:20.800 the fact that our climate isn't just slow pace changing, 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.960 it is rapidly fucking changing, and we all see it 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:28.040 happening now with our own eyes. In the same way 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:32.360 in the movie don't look Up said there's a comet coming. Oh, 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.400 but we'll wait until we see it, and it's too 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:38.520 late for us to actually make any changes. So these 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:44.280 are not liberal ideas. They're the foundation of how you 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:50.120 secure a fucking country in a changing world. And so again, 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:55.520 stop with the lies, right, stop, stop with the analysis 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:59.880 that doesn't actually use a racialized lens, which is all 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:03.120 that America has ever used, which is why we have 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.720 such an extreme gap in health and wealth in this 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:14.280 country depending on your race. Let me take a breath, 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:20.800 because I am It is this type of critique, dear friends, 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:25.560 these type of articles that allow democrats to have the 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:30.280 cover to once again disregard the group that gets them 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:35.479 to power in the first place, in right, in exchange 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:41.160 for their desire to chase after this very small, fleeting, 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:46.240 shrinking class of people, white people. Let me go on. 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:52.040 This is what they say in the report quote. Even 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:56.400 though deepening partisanship has reduced the number of swing voters. 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:01.360 Oh really, the narrow margins of our national elections have 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:06.280 made these voters more important than ever. This reality will 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:10.800 dominate national politics until one party breaks the deadlock of 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:15.320 the past three decades and creates a decisive national majority. Now, 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:19.880 let us also once again be very clear about how 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:25.800 each of these parties actually think about breaking this deadlock 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.319 that they are talking about. So, how do you have 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:33.640 a decisive national majority? If you are a Republican, you 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.959 roll out four hundred voter suppression laws across the country 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:43.319 in every single state. That's number one. Number two, You 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:47.720 roll back policies that Americans actually voted for in places 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:51.440 like Florida that would restore voting rights to those that 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:56.840 were previously incarcerated. You roll that back. Right. You make 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:01.559 examples of people who have one accidentally voted, and if 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:03.920 they are people of color, you throw them in jail, 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.680 like they did in Texas for six federal for six 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:10.160 years in federal prison, well over the time that you 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:13.280 get for actually killing a black person. Right in these 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:18.600 United States, you do everything in your power not to 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.680 win more votes, but to make sure that those that 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:26.120 you know will not vote for you cannot vote. So 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:32.040 it is really easy, right to look at the governorships 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.720 that are held by a majority of Republicans and decide 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.840 that you're not looking for new voters, you're looking to 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:43.080 restrict the number of people that are able to vote. 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.960 So again saying that what will dominate the national politics 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:52.320 without unpacking the strategies that both parties are using, one 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.960 being both of them being completely and totally legal because 0:14:56.400 --> 0:15:04.680 we don't make voting a fundamental part of our push 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:07.640 to secure our democracy. We think that it's a nice 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.280 to have, right. Oh, we would be nice to name 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.480 a bill after the late great John Lewis and then 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.080 get that pass. But don't you know, we're not going 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:19.480 to do it. But we'll keep fighting, is what democrats do. 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:24.880 And what I realize here, folks, is that you have 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:31.080 two parties one that is woefully, woefully ineffective, right. And 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.440 it isn't just with regard to the three ways in 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:38.400 which they decide to evade reality. It's the fact that 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:42.640 both parties center whiteness. Republicans do so in a way 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.640 that tells white people that they are aggrieved, that they 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.760 are owed right, and that anyone that gets in their 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:55.040 way is somehow undeserving right, and so because they are undeserving, 0:15:55.080 --> 0:16:00.520 we need to either strip away right the law that 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:05.400 allowed them to somehow begin to close these very large 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:10.440 gaps right in our society. And then you have Democrats 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.840 on the other hand that want to say to these people, oh, 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.400 we're fighting for you, We're here for you, and give 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:19.120 a bunch of lip service, but then actually not put 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:23.160 any strategies that are in place because they also don't 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:27.400 want to upset white people. So you see who is 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:31.720 winning on both sides and who gets completely fucking overlooked 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:36.240 and erased. And what this article fails to actually recognize 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:41.720 and spotlight, which is that truth. Why are the white 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.680 working class and white wealthy people running to the Republican 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:49.920 Party because not because of economic anxiety, but because of 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:52.480 the fact that they are going to lose power in 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.400 the next few years, and so in order to not 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.200 lose power, they need to go with the party that 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.560 is going to create and a part tied situation in 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:05.080 the United States once again, so that they remain on top. 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:07.760 And then you have the other party that doesn't want 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:11.560 to see race right. They are the literal white moderates 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:17.320 that Martin Luther King Jr. Warned us about, warned us about, 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:22.520 but that we're still digging around with. That's the situation 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:26.760 that we are in. That's the reality, and so it 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.280 isn't And then this is what they say. For that, 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:37.119 I gotta this is a point that I want to 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:41.320 read and I want to get your thoughts on what 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:45.639 you think here about what is said and what is 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:51.840 not actually said. Democrats, they write, must consider the possibility 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.959 that Hispanics will turn out to be the Italians of 0:17:56.000 --> 0:18:02.440 the twenty first century, family oriented, religious, patriotic, striving to 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:06.320 to succeed in their adopted country, and supportive of public 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:12.280 policies that expand economic opportunity without dictating results. They note 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:17.520 that ultimately, quote, Italians became Republicans. Democrats must rethink their 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:21.760 approach if they hope to retain majority support among Hispanics. So, 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:28.480 once again, let me break this down. What did Italians 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:30.720 do when they came to the United States and there 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:33.240 were signs up in windows that said, do not hire 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:38.200 Italians After they were literally ghetto wised and marginalized. Those 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:41.160 same people, right, the ancestors of the people that live 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.480 in this country now change their fucking names. They change 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:48.320 their names and they change their accents, right, and they 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:53.040 disavowed themselves of many of their heritages just enough so 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:59.760 that they could assimilate into an increasingly hostile and discriminatory country. 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:03.560 They were able to do that because you see, they 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:07.920 don't wear their differences on the outside like black people do. 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:13.199 And so what this statement is saying without actually saying 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:17.160 and delving into that reality, is that Hispanics will have 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:22.400 the opportunity, particularly white Latinos, will have the opportunity right 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:28.760 to you know, assimilate more into America if they don't 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:34.840 align themselves right with say, the immigration movement, with let's say, 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.920 the education movement, with let's say, as long as they 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:41.840 recognize that if they align themselves more so to the 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:46.040 proximity of whiteness, even though they are not white, that 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:49.400 they will fare better, That they will be then the 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.480 next class that people are, the next group that people 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:55.760 are chasing, that politicians are chasing. But you see, they 0:19:55.800 --> 0:19:58.440 can say all of those things without giving the contexts 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:03.480 to the situation in which Italians came to this country, Right, 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:10.720 It's just so frustrating. Folks like I am deeply frustrated 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:15.000 when I see conversations like this happen, and I am hopeful. 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:17.120 I am hopeful that in the coming weeks we will 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:21.080 have the authors of this report on woke a f 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:24.119 because I have real questions that I want to ask, 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:28.240 because I don't understand how, once again it is being 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:32.199 looked at through this quote unquote neutral white gaze and 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:38.720 perspective that disavows racism and race and the complexities of 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:41.680 those issues in this country, and how it has always 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:45.800 been embedded into our politics and into our policies. And 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.520 if we're not going to tell the truth, then how 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.760 are we going to come up with a plan that 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:54.639 is actually going to fight against this fascist and authoritarianism 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:58.520 regime When all you're trying to do is what wardered 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:03.200 down said politics, policies that are actually needed to close 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:07.200 gaps and to better this country and to strengthen our democracy. 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:08.880 How are we going to be able to do these 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:11.560 things when we are not telling the truth about the 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:17.400 origins of the fucking problem. So coming up next, Jonathan 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:21.080 and I will dig into a very in depth conversation 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:26.680 about this America's existential crises and whether or not we 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:31.560 have the strength of fortitude or the desire to try 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:38.840 and fix what is broken in America. Folks. There is 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:42.560 a lot going on in the world in America and 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:46.719 society in my own mind right now, and there's no 0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:49.800 one better to walk us through this than our favorite 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:56.320 Wednesday guest, doctor Jonathan Metzel, author of Dying of Whiteness. Jonathan, 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.800 you know, oftentimes when there is so much going on, 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:03.840 I always say to the guests, what are you paying 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:07.560 attention to? I think that that is like a really 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:11.359 heavy question these days, because what are you not paying 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:16.760 attention to? You have NPR recognizing the fact that we 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:22.520 have a new variant B dot a dot two of 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:27.680 COVID nineteen news broke that. Guess what. Boris Johnson has 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:32.800 decided that he's rolling back all COVID protections in the 0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:38.160 all COVID restrictions in the UK. You have impending war 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:41.560 happening in Russia, which has been impending at least for 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:44.439 the last two months whenever Putin rolled out one hundred 0:22:44.440 --> 0:22:49.080 and fifty thousand troops to encircle the Ukraine and then 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:54.080 now has made moves about recognizing other parts of the 0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:59.119 Ukraine as independent vessels to then deflate Ukraine's power as 0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:03.399 a as a solo nation um and then the United 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:07.600 States deciding that they're going to roll out what more, 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:12.160 I don't even know. So I say all that to say, Jonathan, 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:14.280 not to mention the fact that you can get more 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:17.600 time in jail for killing a dog or dog fighting 0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:20.439 like Michael Vick did than Kim Potter did for killing 0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:23.520 an unarmed young black man at the prime of his 0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:25.920 life who was also a father. And then you can 0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:29.480 listen to a judge go off on the empathy for 0:23:29.840 --> 0:23:33.520 this horrible mistake, a mistake that stole a child from 0:23:33.800 --> 0:23:36.080 their mother. But let us only look at the tears 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:39.040 of white women. So when I say, what are you 0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:45.080 paying attention to? What are you paying attention to? Well, 0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:47.480 it's a it's a we're having a moment on our 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:51.520 planet right now, and it's not a good moment. I 0:23:51.560 --> 0:23:53.639 think you're right. I mean, I think you and I 0:23:53.680 --> 0:23:56.359 are probably we should just do this, we should do 0:23:56.359 --> 0:23:57.800 this show at three thirty in the morning, because I 0:23:57.920 --> 0:24:01.040 bet you and I are probably both awake. Um, you know, 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:04.600 It's it's just it's a really hard moment right now, 0:24:04.640 --> 0:24:10.720 because two things I will say. First of all, well, 0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:14.159 I mean I've been thinking a lot about Rocky four 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:17.800 and how how the Russians used to be the bad guy. 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:21.719 You know, they killed Apollo Creed and um, and they 0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:25.760 had to pay for that. Um. And then and then 0:24:25.800 --> 0:24:28.879 we had this danumant our system went out. It was 0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:34.200 better Rocky went to Russia. UM. You know, he promoted 0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:36.720 change in the final scene of Rocky four. It was 0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:40.280 a moment where our side was winning. And Rocky also 0:24:41.160 --> 0:24:44.240 you know, made Vondrago pay for what he did in 0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:46.320 a certain kind of way. So think of all the 0:24:46.400 --> 0:24:48.760 work that went into that. You know, Rocky had trained 0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:53.639 through three movies. Um. But it also represented like and 0:24:53.760 --> 0:24:57.359 it's ascendance of our worldview right in a certain kind 0:24:57.400 --> 0:25:00.439 of ways. So and um, you know I've been teasing 0:25:00.480 --> 0:25:02.240 my brother loves that. Maybe, so I call him and 0:25:02.359 --> 0:25:06.280 I quote the final scene of that movie, because Rocky says, 0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:11.080 if yous can change, we can change, we can all change, 0:25:11.160 --> 0:25:13.000 or something like that. Like I just call and read 0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:15.040 the Rocky quote. But the thing is, it used to 0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:16.800 be funny when I would do that all the time 0:25:16.800 --> 0:25:19.440 to him, and now it's actually not that funny anymore. 0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:21.320 I mean, maybe it wasn't funny in the first place, 0:25:22.440 --> 0:25:26.720 because did we really win? You know? Is that really 0:25:26.720 --> 0:25:30.200 what happened or is the loop of history coming back 0:25:30.320 --> 0:25:33.320 right now? And so many of us have lived in 0:25:33.320 --> 0:25:38.199 the past whatever thirty years thinking that the values of 0:25:38.240 --> 0:25:40.919 our country, which of course have been exposed over the 0:25:40.920 --> 0:25:43.720 past couple of years and much longer for many people, 0:25:45.160 --> 0:25:47.800 but the values of our country in opposition to the 0:25:47.880 --> 0:25:54.600 values of you know, ungoverned, white aggressive fascism, that really 0:25:54.640 --> 0:25:56.880 we were part of a system that was more vibrant, 0:25:56.880 --> 0:26:00.600 that people wanted, that allowed creativity and nourishing and all 0:26:00.600 --> 0:26:03.520 those kind of things. And right now that that seems 0:26:03.520 --> 0:26:05.360 like it's up for grabs in a way. I mean, 0:26:05.440 --> 0:26:07.879 you know, it's it's it's a moment where we rethink, 0:26:08.640 --> 0:26:11.679 um are you know, they're the dominant narrative. The dominant narrative, 0:26:11.720 --> 0:26:16.040 for example, is you know, America had a lot of division, 0:26:16.080 --> 0:26:19.560 but we came together to fight the Nazis and in 0:26:20.000 --> 0:26:23.000 World War two a victory for a new World order, 0:26:23.080 --> 0:26:25.240 all those kind of things. But there was a sub 0:26:25.359 --> 0:26:29.280 a subtext um in the United States always of kind 0:26:29.280 --> 0:26:31.400 of the Charles Lindberg's of the world, the people who 0:26:31.440 --> 0:26:34.840 were saying, what the Nazis aren't that bad, It's just that, 0:26:35.280 --> 0:26:38.320 you know, the minute Pearl Harbor happened, those voices got silence, 0:26:38.400 --> 0:26:40.840 but they didn't go away. And so in a way, 0:26:40.920 --> 0:26:43.879 right now, it's a it's a really terrifying moment in 0:26:43.920 --> 0:26:47.240 a way, not just because of the acts of a 0:26:47.760 --> 0:26:52.879 really an an unhinged aggressor right in Russia with a 0:26:52.880 --> 0:26:56.760 lot of army and nuclear weapons, um, but also because 0:26:57.160 --> 0:26:59.879 what it represents for our country, right, this idea that 0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:04.720 basically um, that form of you know, let's just invade 0:27:05.560 --> 0:27:09.600 and and you know, let's just invade Arizona or Wisconsin 0:27:10.000 --> 0:27:12.760 or something like that. Like I just I see that 0:27:12.760 --> 0:27:15.920 that logic kind of taking back over the world now. 0:27:16.520 --> 0:27:19.240 And so it's happening in Russia, but it's also a 0:27:19.280 --> 0:27:22.159