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Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WIKA F Daily with

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Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Brooklyn Bunker. Folks,

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Speaker 1: I want to start out this morning with unpacking an

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Speaker 1: article that our friend doctor Jonathan Metzo will reference in

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Speaker 1: our interview that is coming up next. And you know,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of times UM when political analysts

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Speaker 1: scholars will dig into why they believe, um the Democratic

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Speaker 1: Party is facing the challenges that it is facing, why

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Speaker 1: Republicans seem to be able to win these culture wars

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Speaker 1: that they start, and they will offer in their deep

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Speaker 1: dives many of the reasons and the ways in which

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Speaker 1: Democrats need to stay away from progressivism, that Democrats need

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Speaker 1: to pay attention to quote unquote working class voters, and

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Speaker 1: so on and so forth. And I have to tell

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Speaker 1: you that I am really tired of having the same

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Speaker 1: conversations over and over again. And I'm also really tired

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Speaker 1: of folks having conversations and debates and totally disregarding the

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Speaker 1: role that race and racism plays. It is intellectually dishonest

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Speaker 1: to continue to have conversations about how and why our

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Speaker 1: democracy is failing and considering and continuing to have conversations

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Speaker 1: and talk about particular classes of voters, when in fact

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Speaker 1: you were just talking about white people and how to

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Speaker 1: keep white people happy so that the Democratic Party can win.

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Speaker 1: And when people continue to say things like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: we need to go after swing voters and we need

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Speaker 1: to move at a pace that is comfortable for the majority,

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Speaker 1: what you are saying is that by even articulating the

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Speaker 1: reality that is racism and segregation in this country, that

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Speaker 1: Democrats will be doing themselves a disservice. That Republicans are

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Speaker 1: able to continue to use the politics of manipulation and

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Speaker 1: identity politics for their gain while stirring the pot for

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Speaker 1: their aggrieved white working class base. But that Democrats, if

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Speaker 1: you were to then actually peel apart the lump, the

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Speaker 1: lumping of people of color and have honest conversations about

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Speaker 1: the needs of these groups and how they are reflected

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Speaker 1: back in the needs of the majority of Americans, then

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Speaker 1: somehow you're going to piss off white people and then

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Speaker 1: you're going to lose everything. The fact remains, folks, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know how many fucking times that we have

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Speaker 1: to say this. White men don't vote for Democrats, White

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Speaker 1: women don't vote for Democrats, they never fucking and they

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Speaker 1: never will again. Why because once the party opened itself

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Speaker 1: up to people of color and started to advance policies

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Speaker 1: and initiatives that would benefit those that were purposefully marginalized

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Speaker 1: and left out of the American dream, white people fled.

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Speaker 1: And so the only way to have an honest conversation

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Speaker 1: about the direction that this country is going to go

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Speaker 1: in is to say whether or not Democrats will once

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Speaker 1: again follow in the footsteps of Republicans and ignore their

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Speaker 1: growing base, ignore the Democratic the demographic shift, in favor

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Speaker 1: of continuing to go after and water down policies so

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Speaker 1: that white people remain fucking comfortable. There is no difference

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Speaker 1: in the article that I am about to read to

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Speaker 1: you and what it is that Dissantis is doing in

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Speaker 1: Florida to ensure that white Floridians remain comfortable, right, Because

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Speaker 1: until we decide that we are no longer going to

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Speaker 1: offer up a body politic that is centered on whiteness,

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Speaker 1: white wealth, white comfort, white growth, then we are never

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Speaker 1: going to actually solve the problems that are facing this country.

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Speaker 1: Because you see here in the conversation that Jonathan and

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Speaker 1: I will have, which I think is in my humble opinion,

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Speaker 1: one of the most important conversations that Jonathan and I

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Speaker 1: have had in the last two years together. It is

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Speaker 1: the most honest conversation that we have had, not just

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Speaker 1: talking about one particular issue, whether it's COVID or gun

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Speaker 1: rights or voting rights, but no talking about the collective right,

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Speaker 1: because that is the problem in general with America right now,

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Speaker 1: is that we don't talk about the collective, that we

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Speaker 1: don't talk about the community. That instead we only talk

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Speaker 1: about one group, and that is white people. And we

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Speaker 1: use every single fucking phrase and word to describe the

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Speaker 1: needs of white people without journalists and analysts and scholars

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Speaker 1: actually using the word white. And I am tired of

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Speaker 1: the bullshit and we'll call it out. So here's this

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Speaker 1: article right now that was up in the Washington Post

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Speaker 1: earlier this week, and it's entitled Democrats are engaged in

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Speaker 1: a new politics of evasion that could cost them in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, new study says, and it's written by

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Speaker 1: Dan Balls, who's the chief correspondent, and it brings up

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Speaker 1: this new report that is being done thirty three years

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Speaker 1: after the original by Elaine Camrack and William A. Gulston

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Speaker 1: and These are two scholars from the Brookings Institute that

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Speaker 1: initially wrote The Politics of Avasion back in nineteen eighty

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Speaker 1: nine after Mike Decoccus lost the presidential race. And this

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Speaker 1: was their examination because over the last several right they

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Speaker 1: believe it was the last six presidential elections between I

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Speaker 1: believe it is nineteen sixty eight and a nineteen eighty nine,

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Speaker 1: Democrats lost all but one Jimmy Carter, who would then

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Speaker 1: only go to serve one term. Republicans were winning all

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Speaker 1: of them, and not only winning, but winning the electoral

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Speaker 1: votes in a significant margin as compared to Democrats. Now,

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Speaker 1: we have to understand that what was happening thirty three

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Speaker 1: years ago, it's not the same as what is happening now.

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Speaker 1: Climate change wasn't even in our lexicon at that time, right.

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Speaker 1: And the fact is, while killings of black people, while

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Speaker 1: the racial wealth gap was still in existence, while all

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Speaker 1: of these things, we weren't having those conversations out in

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Speaker 1: the open because no one gave a shit about black people.

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Speaker 1: Now that's not to say that people actually care now,

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Speaker 1: because they do not. But I want to unpack pieces

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Speaker 1: of this article and pieces of the quotes that are

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Speaker 1: taken from the report that was done by this group,

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Speaker 1: these two political people at the Progressive Policy Institute. Excuse me, So,

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Speaker 1: these two folks, William Galston and Elaine Camerack wrote this

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Speaker 1: report initially thirty three years ago. They have revamped it

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Speaker 1: for the politics of this moment, and it's been covered

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Speaker 1: in the Washington Post. Here's one of their opening quotes.

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Speaker 1: A Democrat loss in a Democratic loss in the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four presidential election may well have a catastrophic consequences

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Speaker 1: for the country. We know this, right, We know that

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Speaker 1: there is catastrophic consequences. But I want you to understand

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Speaker 1: the three things that they believe are the pervasive myths

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Speaker 1: that Democrats have been organizing around or have been completely

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Speaker 1: disorganized around, depending on how you look at this picture.

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Speaker 1: But here is what they believe. The three things that

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Speaker 1: are leading Democrats astray. Number one, people of color, the

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Speaker 1: grouping of people of color that they all think an

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Speaker 1: act alike. That's number one. Number two that economics Trump's culture.

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Speaker 1: And number three, which is one that I strongly disagree with,

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Speaker 1: a progressive majority is emerging. These are the myths that

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Speaker 1: they outline that Democrats actually need to understand. But I

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Speaker 1: want to read you this as well, because I find

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Speaker 1: all of this so like I want to scream. This

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Speaker 1: is why I'm taking my time. So this is directly

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Speaker 1: from the article quote. Their analysis is a centrist critique

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Speaker 1: of a party that they fear has moved too far

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Speaker 1: to the left and in the process increasingly has lost

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Speaker 1: touch with the swing voters right and I'm using air

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Speaker 1: quotes for those that are listening for the swing voters

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Speaker 1: who still have the power to decide elections. Its publication

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Speaker 1: comes a week after voters in San Francisco recalled three

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Speaker 1: members of the local school board in a battle that

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Speaker 1: underscored the limits of left wing politics even in such

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Speaker 1: a liberal city, and an outcome that's set off alarms

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Speaker 1: inside the party. Gallston and Camerack argue that in an

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Speaker 1: age of close elections, five of the past six were

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Speaker 1: decided by five points or fewer, mobilizing base voters is

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Speaker 1: not enough to assure success. Now, let me pause right here,

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Speaker 1: because that is utter and complete trash. Why do I

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Speaker 1: think that? Because all Republicans do is organize and strengthen

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Speaker 1: their base. Their base is white evangelical Christians that they

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Speaker 1: have been pushing forward their agenda for the last four

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Speaker 1: fucking decades. The problem with Democrats isn't that they actually

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Speaker 1: pander to their base, which they don't. All Democrats have

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Speaker 1: been doing over the past three and four decades is

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Speaker 1: pandering to the group of white working class Americans that

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Speaker 1: don't fuck with them and have never fucked with them. Right.

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Speaker 1: When have Democrats actually quote unquote tried to ensure the

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Speaker 1: success of their base, which is Black Americans, Latin X Americans,

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Speaker 1: LGBTQ Americans, those that live at the intersections, young Americans. Right,

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Speaker 1: when have they ever offered up policies that have been

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Speaker 1: polled that have said that if you do these things,

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Speaker 1: these people are with you. For instance, fucking voting rights

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Speaker 1: right number two, student loan debt relief number three, fucking

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Speaker 1: action on climate change. These are not quote unquote progressive

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Speaker 1: and overreaches in policy. They are actually the fundamentals of

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Speaker 1: creating a secured democracy, right, One that allows people to

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Speaker 1: have financial freedom, one that allows them the liberty that

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Speaker 1: is said in our Creed, of being able to choose

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Speaker 1: their representatives and to create a government that is foreigned

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Speaker 1: by the people. And then the other is tackling Oh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know the existential of existential crises, which is

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Speaker 1: the fact that our climate isn't just slow pace changing,

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Speaker 1: it is rapidly fucking changing, and we all see it

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Speaker 1: happening now with our own eyes. In the same way

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Speaker 1: in the movie don't look Up said there's a comet coming. Oh,

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Speaker 1: but we'll wait until we see it, and it's too

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Speaker 1: late for us to actually make any changes. So these

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Speaker 1: are not liberal ideas. They're the foundation of how you

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Speaker 1: secure a fucking country in a changing world. And so again,

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Speaker 1: stop with the lies, right, stop, stop with the analysis

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Speaker 1: that doesn't actually use a racialized lens, which is all

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Speaker 1: that America has ever used, which is why we have

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Speaker 1: such an extreme gap in health and wealth in this

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Speaker 1: country depending on your race. Let me take a breath,

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Speaker 1: because I am It is this type of critique, dear friends,

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Speaker 1: these type of articles that allow democrats to have the

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Speaker 1: cover to once again disregard the group that gets them

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Speaker 1: to power in the first place, in right, in exchange

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Speaker 1: for their desire to chase after this very small, fleeting,

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Speaker 1: shrinking class of people, white people. Let me go on.

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Speaker 1: This is what they say in the report quote. Even

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Speaker 1: though deepening partisanship has reduced the number of swing voters.

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Speaker 1: Oh really, the narrow margins of our national elections have

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Speaker 1: made these voters more important than ever. This reality will

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Speaker 1: dominate national politics until one party breaks the deadlock of

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Speaker 1: the past three decades and creates a decisive national majority. Now,

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Speaker 1: let us also once again be very clear about how

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Speaker 1: each of these parties actually think about breaking this deadlock

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Speaker 1: that they are talking about. So, how do you have

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Speaker 1: a decisive national majority? If you are a Republican, you

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Speaker 1: roll out four hundred voter suppression laws across the country

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Speaker 1: in every single state. That's number one. Number two, You

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Speaker 1: roll back policies that Americans actually voted for in places

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Speaker 1: like Florida that would restore voting rights to those that

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Speaker 1: were previously incarcerated. You roll that back. Right. You make

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Speaker 1: examples of people who have one accidentally voted, and if

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Speaker 1: they are people of color, you throw them in jail,

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Speaker 1: like they did in Texas for six federal for six

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Speaker 1: years in federal prison, well over the time that you

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Speaker 1: get for actually killing a black person. Right in these

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Speaker 1: United States, you do everything in your power not to

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Speaker 1: win more votes, but to make sure that those that

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Speaker 1: you know will not vote for you cannot vote. So

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Speaker 1: it is really easy, right to look at the governorships

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Speaker 1: that are held by a majority of Republicans and decide

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Speaker 1: that you're not looking for new voters, you're looking to

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Speaker 1: restrict the number of people that are able to vote.

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Speaker 1: So again saying that what will dominate the national politics

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Speaker 1: without unpacking the strategies that both parties are using, one

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Speaker 1: being both of them being completely and totally legal because

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Speaker 1: we don't make voting a fundamental part of our push

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Speaker 1: to secure our democracy. We think that it's a nice

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Speaker 1: to have, right. Oh, we would be nice to name

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Speaker 1: a bill after the late great John Lewis and then

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Speaker 1: get that pass. But don't you know, we're not going

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Speaker 1: to do it. But we'll keep fighting, is what democrats do.

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Speaker 1: And what I realize here, folks, is that you have

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Speaker 1: two parties one that is woefully, woefully ineffective, right. And

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Speaker 1: it isn't just with regard to the three ways in

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Speaker 1: which they decide to evade reality. It's the fact that

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Speaker 1: both parties center whiteness. Republicans do so in a way

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Speaker 1: that tells white people that they are aggrieved, that they

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Speaker 1: are owed right, and that anyone that gets in their

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Speaker 1: way is somehow undeserving right, and so because they are undeserving,

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Speaker 1: we need to either strip away right the law that

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Speaker 1: allowed them to somehow begin to close these very large

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Speaker 1: gaps right in our society. And then you have Democrats

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Speaker 1: on the other hand that want to say to these people, oh,

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Speaker 1: we're fighting for you, We're here for you, and give

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Speaker 1: a bunch of lip service, but then actually not put

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Speaker 1: any strategies that are in place because they also don't

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Speaker 1: want to upset white people. So you see who is

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Speaker 1: winning on both sides and who gets completely fucking overlooked

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Speaker 1: and erased. And what this article fails to actually recognize

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Speaker 1: and spotlight, which is that truth. Why are the white

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Speaker 1: working class and white wealthy people running to the Republican

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Speaker 1: Party because not because of economic anxiety, but because of

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Speaker 1: the fact that they are going to lose power in

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Speaker 1: the next few years, and so in order to not

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Speaker 1: lose power, they need to go with the party that

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Speaker 1: is going to create and a part tied situation in

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Speaker 1: the United States once again, so that they remain on top.

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Speaker 1: And then you have the other party that doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to see race right. They are the literal white moderates

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Speaker 1: that Martin Luther King Jr. Warned us about, warned us about,

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Speaker 1: but that we're still digging around with. That's the situation

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Speaker 1: that we are in. That's the reality, and so it

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Speaker 1: isn't And then this is what they say. For that,

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Speaker 1: I gotta this is a point that I want to

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Speaker 1: read and I want to get your thoughts on what

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Speaker 1: you think here about what is said and what is

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Speaker 1: not actually said. Democrats, they write, must consider the possibility

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Speaker 1: that Hispanics will turn out to be the Italians of

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Speaker 1: the twenty first century, family oriented, religious, patriotic, striving to

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Speaker 1: to succeed in their adopted country, and supportive of public

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Speaker 1: policies that expand economic opportunity without dictating results. They note

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Speaker 1: that ultimately, quote, Italians became Republicans. Democrats must rethink their

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Speaker 1: approach if they hope to retain majority support among Hispanics. So,

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Speaker 1: once again, let me break this down. What did Italians

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Speaker 1: do when they came to the United States and there

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Speaker 1: were signs up in windows that said, do not hire

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Speaker 1: Italians After they were literally ghetto wised and marginalized. Those

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Speaker 1: same people, right, the ancestors of the people that live

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Speaker 1: in this country now change their fucking names. They change

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Speaker 1: their names and they change their accents, right, and they

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Speaker 1: disavowed themselves of many of their heritages just enough so

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Speaker 1: that they could assimilate into an increasingly hostile and discriminatory country.

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Speaker 1: They were able to do that because you see, they

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Speaker 1: don't wear their differences on the outside like black people do.

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Speaker 1: And so what this statement is saying without actually saying

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Speaker 1: and delving into that reality, is that Hispanics will have

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Speaker 1: the opportunity, particularly white Latinos, will have the opportunity right

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Speaker 1: to you know, assimilate more into America if they don't

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Speaker 1: align themselves right with say, the immigration movement, with let's say,

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Speaker 1: the education movement, with let's say, as long as they

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Speaker 1: recognize that if they align themselves more so to the

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Speaker 1: proximity of whiteness, even though they are not white, that

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Speaker 1: they will fare better, That they will be then the

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Speaker 1: next class that people are, the next group that people

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Speaker 1: are chasing, that politicians are chasing. But you see, they

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Speaker 1: can say all of those things without giving the contexts

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Speaker 1: to the situation in which Italians came to this country, Right,

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Speaker 1: It's just so frustrating. Folks like I am deeply frustrated

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Speaker 1: when I see conversations like this happen, and I am hopeful.

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Speaker 1: I am hopeful that in the coming weeks we will

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Speaker 1: have the authors of this report on woke a f

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Speaker 1: because I have real questions that I want to ask,

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Speaker 1: because I don't understand how, once again it is being

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Speaker 1: looked at through this quote unquote neutral white gaze and

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Speaker 1: perspective that disavows racism and race and the complexities of

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Speaker 1: those issues in this country, and how it has always

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Speaker 1: been embedded into our politics and into our policies. And

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Speaker 1: if we're not going to tell the truth, then how

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Speaker 1: are we going to come up with a plan that

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Speaker 1: is actually going to fight against this fascist and authoritarianism

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Speaker 1: regime When all you're trying to do is what wardered

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Speaker 1: down said politics, policies that are actually needed to close

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Speaker 1: gaps and to better this country and to strengthen our democracy.

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Speaker 1: How are we going to be able to do these

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Speaker 1: things when we are not telling the truth about the

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Speaker 1: origins of the fucking problem. So coming up next, Jonathan

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Speaker 1: and I will dig into a very in depth conversation

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Speaker 1: about this America's existential crises and whether or not we

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Speaker 1: have the strength of fortitude or the desire to try

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Speaker 1: and fix what is broken in America. Folks. There is

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Speaker 1: a lot going on in the world in America and

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Speaker 1: society in my own mind right now, and there's no

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Speaker 1: one better to walk us through this than our favorite

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Speaker 1: Wednesday guest, doctor Jonathan Metzel, author of Dying of Whiteness. Jonathan,

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Speaker 1: you know, oftentimes when there is so much going on,

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Speaker 1: I always say to the guests, what are you paying

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Speaker 1: attention to? I think that that is like a really

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Speaker 1: heavy question these days, because what are you not paying

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Speaker 1: attention to? You have NPR recognizing the fact that we

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Speaker 1: have a new variant B dot a dot two of

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen news broke that. Guess what. Boris Johnson has

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Speaker 1: decided that he's rolling back all COVID protections in the

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Speaker 1: all COVID restrictions in the UK. You have impending war

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Speaker 1: happening in Russia, which has been impending at least for

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Speaker 1: the last two months whenever Putin rolled out one hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty thousand troops to encircle the Ukraine and then

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Speaker 1: now has made moves about recognizing other parts of the

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Speaker 1: Ukraine as independent vessels to then deflate Ukraine's power as

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Speaker 1: a as a solo nation um and then the United

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Speaker 1: States deciding that they're going to roll out what more,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know. So I say all that to say, Jonathan,

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Speaker 1: not to mention the fact that you can get more

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Speaker 1: time in jail for killing a dog or dog fighting

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Speaker 1: like Michael Vick did than Kim Potter did for killing

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Speaker 1: an unarmed young black man at the prime of his

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Speaker 1: life who was also a father. And then you can

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Speaker 1: listen to a judge go off on the empathy for

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Speaker 1: this horrible mistake, a mistake that stole a child from

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Speaker 1: their mother. But let us only look at the tears

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Speaker 1: of white women. So when I say, what are you

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Speaker 1: paying attention to? What are you paying attention to? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a we're having a moment on our

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Speaker 1: planet right now, and it's not a good moment. I

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Speaker 1: think you're right. I mean, I think you and I

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Speaker 1: are probably we should just do this, we should do

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Speaker 1: this show at three thirty in the morning, because I

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Speaker 1: bet you and I are probably both awake. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: It's it's just it's a really hard moment right now,

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Speaker 1: because two things I will say. First of all, well,

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Speaker 1: I mean I've been thinking a lot about Rocky four

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Speaker 1: and how how the Russians used to be the bad guy.

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Speaker 1: You know, they killed Apollo Creed and um, and they

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Speaker 1: had to pay for that. Um. And then and then

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Speaker 1: we had this danumant our system went out. It was

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Speaker 1: better Rocky went to Russia. UM. You know, he promoted

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Speaker 1: change in the final scene of Rocky four. It was

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Speaker 1: a moment where our side was winning. And Rocky also

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Speaker 1: you know, made Vondrago pay for what he did in

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Speaker 1: a certain kind of way. So think of all the

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Speaker 1: work that went into that. You know, Rocky had trained

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Speaker 1: through three movies. Um. But it also represented like and

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Speaker 1: it's ascendance of our worldview right in a certain kind

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Speaker 1: of ways. So and um, you know I've been teasing

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Speaker 1: my brother loves that. Maybe, so I call him and

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Speaker 1: I quote the final scene of that movie, because Rocky says,

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Speaker 1: if yous can change, we can change, we can all change,

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Speaker 1: or something like that. Like I just call and read

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Speaker 1: the Rocky quote. But the thing is, it used to

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Speaker 1: be funny when I would do that all the time

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Speaker 1: to him, and now it's actually not that funny anymore.

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Speaker 1: I mean, maybe it wasn't funny in the first place,

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Speaker 1: because did we really win? You know? Is that really

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Speaker 1: what happened or is the loop of history coming back

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Speaker 1: right now? And so many of us have lived in

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Speaker 1: the past whatever thirty years thinking that the values of

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Speaker 1: our country, which of course have been exposed over the

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Speaker 1: past couple of years and much longer for many people,

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Speaker 1: but the values of our country in opposition to the

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Speaker 1: values of you know, ungoverned, white aggressive fascism, that really

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Speaker 1: we were part of a system that was more vibrant,

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Speaker 1: that people wanted, that allowed creativity and nourishing and all

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Speaker 1: those kind of things. And right now that that seems

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Speaker 1: like it's up for grabs in a way. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's a moment where we rethink,

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Speaker 1: um are you know, they're the dominant narrative. The dominant narrative,

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Speaker 1: for example, is you know, America had a lot of division,

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Speaker 1: but we came together to fight the Nazis and in

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Speaker 1: World War two a victory for a new World order,

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Speaker 1: all those kind of things. But there was a sub

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Speaker 1: a subtext um in the United States always of kind

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Speaker 1: of the Charles Lindberg's of the world, the people who

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Speaker 1: were saying, what the Nazis aren't that bad, It's just that,

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Speaker 1: you know, the minute Pearl Harbor happened, those voices got silence,

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Speaker 1: but they didn't go away. And so in a way,

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Speaker 1: right now, it's a it's a really terrifying moment in

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Speaker 1: a way, not just because of the acts of a

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Speaker 1: really an an unhinged aggressor right in Russia with a

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Speaker 1: lot of army and nuclear weapons, um, but also because

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Speaker 1: what it represents for our country, right, this idea that

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Speaker 1: basically um, that form of you know, let's just invade

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Speaker 1: and and you know, let's just invade Arizona or Wisconsin

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Speaker 1: or something like that. Like I just I see that

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Speaker 1: that logic kind of taking back over the world now.

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Speaker 1: And so it's happening in Russia, but it's also a

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Speaker 1: reflection of kind of a logic that's happening here. And

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Speaker 1: I guess the fear is is our system strong enough

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Speaker 1: to unify in opposition to that kind of I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is honestly, it's not. Yeah, it's I mean it's not.

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Speaker 1: It's I think that you know what what has troubled me,

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Speaker 1: Jonathan um. And this is why I enjoy our conversations

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Speaker 1: because they're not sound bites, right, because we can actually

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Speaker 1: have a conversation yea, and this better audit but yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: like this warrants more than you know, than than than

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Speaker 1: a minute split between three people on the news. Um

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Speaker 1: is the reality our our system isn't strong. And I

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Speaker 1: think that that is the thing that we are all

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Speaker 1: still trying to come to understand, is that America's system,

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Speaker 1: political system, all of our systems were based on norms,

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Speaker 1: were based on a shared belief. I saw your tweet

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Speaker 1: um from from the night before that said, you know

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Speaker 1: you were talking about Rocky for and you're like this

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Speaker 1: the same shared values that we had in in that film,

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Speaker 1: which yes, it's it's a it's a boxing movie, but

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Speaker 1: we all know where we were in the Cold War

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Speaker 1: and why it was such like a major thing, right.

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Speaker 1: It's it's the same reason why we feel a deep

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Speaker 1: sense or used to feel a deep sense of patriotism

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Speaker 1: around the Olympics, right because you get to see America

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Speaker 1: be great at these you know, at these sports. The

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Speaker 1: reality is is that what what was illuminated, not what

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Speaker 1: Trump created, but what was illuminated during the years of

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Speaker 1: tru was the fact that everything that we have known

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Speaker 1: to be true about America was based on a set

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Speaker 1: of false ideals and understandings, and a basically handshake deals

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Speaker 1: between both parties that we may not like your overt

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00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: spending and we may not like your conservativism, but at

433
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: the end of the day, we are Americans, and what

434
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: does that believe mean? We believe in freedom, we believe

435
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: in justice. Now, you can then talk to black Americans

436
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: and they tell you an entirely different story about the

437
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: truth about America and its allegiance to justice and liberty

438
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,959
Speaker 1: and freedom and who has that and who doesn't. You

439
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: can talk to women, you can talk to poor people,

440
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: and they have a different understanding of those fundamental shared beliefs.

441
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: But if you were to just take the fifty thousand

442
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: foot view, that's who we were, or that's who we

443
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: thought this idea of perfecting this imperfect union, right, is

444
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: that each generation has its work. Now have an entire party.

445
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: Half of the fucking country is waving Russian flags thinking

446
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: that Putin is their hero, right and look at him

447
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: and how strong he is, and he's a strong man,

448
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: right and and but it's like, so the question our

449
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: system strong enough? No, we're not even going to have

450
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: a free and fair election in a couple of months,

451
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: let alone in twenty twenty four. So to me, that's

452
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: not it's not our system strong enough. It's like, what

453
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: are we going to do? Because the bad is here

454
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: and it's not going anywhere? So how do we prepare?

455
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: Is my question? But do you believe that we're even

456
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: in the mindset to start talking about preparation when we're

457
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: still literally looking up at the at the comment that's

458
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: coming towards us. I think there are two ways to

459
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: answer that. I mean, one way is a SoundBite, which

460
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: is that half the country potentially has more in common

461
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: with Russia than with the ideal of America that fought

462
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: World War two and and liberated concentration camps. Right that

463
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: in a way, it's not like we've ever thought there

464
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: was just one way to be American that we've always

465
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: had George Wallace, We've always had the Birch Society, you know,

466
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: we've always had that stuff. It's just that there was

467
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: there was a democratic ideal that one out over those things,

468
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: and that doesn't seem to be the case right now,

469
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: and so, um, you know, there there was, and so

470
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: so partially I think that it's like it's a scary moment,

471
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: not just because of Russia, again, but because of our

472
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: internal politics where where the forces that support those ideals

473
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: seem to be on the ropes, you know right now

474
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: to continue the metaphor and um and so that's one

475
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: side of the coin um. And so in a way,

476
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: just the idea that we're mobilizing to make Russia pay,

477
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: like sanctions or moving troops to defend our allies, you

478
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: know that that requires that kind of uniformity. Now, maybe

479
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: maybe at a time when we're all challenged, we can

480
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: come together a little more than we're doing. I mean,

481
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: that would be the optimistic switch spin on this. But

482
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: we've just seen when we were all facing the coronavirus

483
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: that in the face of a common enemy, we've become

484
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: more divided. And partially that's because of Russian disinformation because

485
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: of what's happened, but it's also because so much crap

486
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 1: has been exposed and amplified in this country that it's

487
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: going to be hard to it's going to be hard

488
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: to even conceptualize that we're on the same side. Now.

489
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: There was a good piece in the Washington Post this

490
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: morning by some people I think at Brookings that talked

491
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: about how this is a moment really for Democrats to

492
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: come together completely. There were two interesting points of this article.

493
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: I thought number one is every effort has to be

494
00:32:55,680 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 1: towards saving democracy, not about internal divisions among Democrats. I

495
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: don't know if that's possible in the Democratic Party, but

496
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: it basically said that, you know it basically no mystery

497
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: that you're going to be relegated to perpetual you know,

498
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: um resistance party if if you don't, if you don't

499
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: figure out ways to unify and divide and not divide.

500
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: And the other interesting point was, I mean, it used

501
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: a euphemism that I don't like social issues, but it

502
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: said that Democrats had made a mistake assuming that you

503
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: could unify the party in economic issues and not better

504
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: counter like, basically that we've lost the social issues influencing

505
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: independent swing voters to decide elections to Republicans in a way.

506
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: So coming together would also be figuring out some common

507
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: messaging to win elections based on social issues. That's an

508
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: awful lot considering it's February and the U and the

509
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: election is November. But I think that's kind of a

510
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: sense of what we're faced. Thing right now is a

511
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: momentous task, because this is a moment where that kind of.

512
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it's all in the context so fascism and

513
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: all these kind of things in the pandemic, but that

514
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: kind of turn is happening again in the world, and

515
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: it's kind of like number one, how can you fight back?

516
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 1: And number two where is safe? I mean that's those

517
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: are the two kind of questions. And the thing is,

518
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 1: you know, is where is safe? Right? Is probably to

519
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 1: me the most important question to ask, because my follower

520
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: would be, well, what does safety actually look like? Right?

521
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: Because safety in this climate, I mean, you're we name

522
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: at the top so many different crises that we are

523
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: facing all at once. Safety looks like what the ability

524
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: to have a rocket ship so that you can leave Earth?

525
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: You know, like it is safety, financial freedom when millions

526
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 1: of Americans are saddled with student loan debt, is safety? Health?

527
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: You know, in a time when we're at close to

528
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: a million Americans have died of COVID and we have

529
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: a completely crumbling, deteriorating healthcare system that can't do the

530
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: bare minimum, let alone be able to operate that at

531
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,919
Speaker 1: a health pandemic, you have politicians that are advertising their

532
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: candidacy with using actual guns, right like, and this is

533
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: this is now the norm. So I struggle to understand

534
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 1: even what we mean collectively when we are talking about safety,

535
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: because our idea of what feels safe is no longer

536
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: the same. And I guess for me in a part

537
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: of the issue is what happens to what we've been

538
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 1: calling social justice in that context? Right? So many things

539
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: have been exposed and illuminated over the past couple of years,

540
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: and there has been a lot of effort to recognize

541
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: the inequities in our society. But I but I feel

542
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 1: like when we're faced with such an urgent threat from

543
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: an external you know, I think the other question that

544
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: I think will be asking over the next fifty years is, uh,

545
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,439
Speaker 1: is what happens to internal politics? Right? In a way,

546
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: What's what's the impact going to be on on education,

547
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: on efforts to address inequity? Um? And I think, you know,

548
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 1: there's there's really it's it's kind of you know, I

549
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: just think of Martin Luther King's debate about chaos versus community, like,

550
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: what what are the people who care about social justice?

551
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: Do they do they rebel against the system? Do they

552
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: say to hell with everything? Is a protest movement where

553
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: a Balkanized protest movement um or is this let's win

554
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: elections because we're in a democracy and you and you

555
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 1: enact change by winning elections and appointing judges and stuff

556
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: like that. And I think you know that that's a

557
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: that's a kind of urgent question. It's ironically the same question. Yeah,

558
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: but but the stakes are, believe it or not even

559
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: higher right now in the middle of a pandemic. The

560
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: issues are worse in some in some parts of the country,

561
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: you know, people don't have water, they don't have safety,

562
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 1: and so the question is going to be like, what's

563
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: the response, right, is the response in the system or

564
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 1: is the response a kind of giving up on this system?

565
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: And I think that that I think that that's that's

566
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: pretty urgent, right, I mean, are people Do people want

567
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: to be in a perpetual state of resistance to America

568
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: right now? Or do they want to try to come

569
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: together to save America? And I think that's not an

570
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 1: easy question given everything we know about America at this moment. God, Jonathan,

571
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 1: those are really good and really existential, right, questions that

572
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 1: you know for so long. I feel like people like

573
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: you and I who been having these conversations for the

574
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: last two years have been told in so many ways

575
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: that we are hyperbolic, that elections will continue, democracy will continue,

576
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 1: the pandemic will end, life will go back to what

577
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: it was. And two years later, here we are and

578
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: things have not gotten better, they've gotten worse. We were

579
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,479
Speaker 1: waiting on a vaccine. Okay, the vaccine came in, twenty

580
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: five percent of the population doesn't want to take it.

581
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: We thought that we were going, We were in a

582
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: good place as it pertains to race relations. Then we

583
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: all collectively watched, in the midst of a pandemic a

584
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: black man be murdered and broad daylight by a police officer,

585
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: and we still had to cross our fingers and our

586
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: tales hoping that that police officer would go to jail

587
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: for what we all witnessed collectively. And so, you know,

588
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: the question is, we have so many questions and there

589
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: aren't a lot of solutions to the moment that we're

590
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: in because we've never been here before. And even if

591
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 1: we're using history as our guide, the confluence of all

592
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: of these things, right is what's making it really imposed

593
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: to come up with a step by step plan to

594
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: deal with one thing over here when there are eighty

595
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: five behind it. So I guess you know, the real

596
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: question for Democrats as we march into the inevitable loss

597
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: of midterm elections and then the inevitable loss of the

598
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: presidential in twenty twenty four and the inevitable loss, is like,

599
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 1: what does what does it mean to be safe? And

600
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 1: in a country that is becoming increasingly unsafe, do we

601
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: still profess to look at look after solely the individual

602
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: or are we interested now in actually looking at the collective,

603
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 1: in recognizing that we do need community? Because I'll tell

604
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: you that one of the things I think was is

605
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: the major downfall of America is this bullshit idealization of

606
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:52,439
Speaker 1: the rugged individualism. If we actually wore more and more

607
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: community minded, were more thinking about the collective and the

608
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 1: betterment of the whole, we wouldn't be in a lot

609
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: of these situation that we're in. Yeah, I mean, it's

610
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,919
Speaker 1: it's a and you know, to even make it even

611
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: more cheerful, it's also going to be in the context

612
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 1: of a world that rewards um unbridled aggression. Right. I

613
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,800
Speaker 1: mean I think that I think that the reason the

614
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: stuff in Ukraine matters so much is because it really

615
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: is potentially the first domino of many to fall um

616
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: and I just don't mean Russia, you know, China, um

617
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: and and the United States in a certain kind of way. Um.

618
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: And so in a way, it's kind of like the

619
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:46,399
Speaker 1: stakes of of thinking in a collective way. They've never

620
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: been more important, and they've also never been more difficult

621
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: that the you know, you don't have the luxury of

622
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 1: trying to figure it out. Um. You know, and and

623
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: so I feel like, you know, just a lot of

624
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,720
Speaker 1: things are happening at one time right now, and and

625
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,359
Speaker 1: and it makes sense, you know, our conversations over the

626
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: past few years really are leading to what's happening now.

627
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: In a way, I totally agree with that. But but

628
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 1: it's it's just that the where do you go from there?

629
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,879
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny. I don't want to I did

630
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 1: a book club last night for Dying of Whiteness, and

631
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 1: the people were amazing. It was an incredible conversation, um.

632
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: And I was talking about how, you know, the kind

633
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 1: of core argument of the book that as a tradeoff

634
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 1: for a position atop of social hierarchy, white Americans are

635
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: being asked and willingly trading away their own lifespans and

636
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: and people still couldn't get their heads around it. They

637
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: kept saying, is it a cult? Is there a is

638
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: there a DSM diagnosis for Trump? Is there is there um? Like,

639
00:41:55,000 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: is this their anxiety about being the demographic minority, you know,

640
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 1: in fifty years or forty years or whatever. And I

641
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: kept saying, you know, I love that. I wish that

642
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: was the case. Honestly, if they it was just a

643
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: mental illness, we could just treat them up to illness.

644
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 1: But really, what it is is a power graph. What

645
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: they're doing is they're they're graving power. And if we

646
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 1: pathologize them or moralize using public health and saying, look

647
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 1: at how dumb they are they're not getting the vaccine,

648
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: you kind of missed the point that it's a it's

649
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 1: a power graph. And so the question is the response

650
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: to a power graph is not to show vaccine and

651
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:36,280
Speaker 1: vaccination charts, you know, it's actually to respond with power.

652
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: And the example I gave was that all the nonsense

653
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: for the critical race theory stuff for school boards, that

654
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: the minute they started pulling the CRT stuff, our response

655
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: was to respond to it in content, to say, oh,

656
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: critical race theory, it's only from law schools from the seventies.

657
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 1: The minute that happened relost in other words, you know,

658
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: a better response would have been the minute that people

659
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: started showing up to school boards. A hundred people show

660
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 1: at the school boards, yelling at the school board members.

661
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: We show up seven thousand people to every school board

662
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: in support of having different kinds of books in the

663
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 1: library and being able to have academic freedom. Other words,

664
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 1: where was the mobilization, the mass mobilization in support of

665
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 1: our ideals, Like I can't remember that happening one time,

666
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 1: Like was there a mass mobilization in response to libraries

667
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,919
Speaker 1: banning books? Was? You know, I don't know. I guess

668
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 1: we all think it's somebody else's responsibility. But yeah, yeah,

669
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: And so in a way it's easy to say, oh,

670
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: it's a mental illness or lookout them they are for

671
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: not getting things. But the thing is we're in a

672
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 1: power struggle, and so when when when they are when

673
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,919
Speaker 1: all the only video of school boards is people saying

674
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: throw away the books from the library, and not ten

675
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: thousand people showing up and saying we support having lots

676
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: of books in the library. You know that that's kind

677
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: of where you've lose rights. It's not about debating the

678
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 1: merits of critical race theory. I mean, we should do

679
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 1: that also, but it's like the minute you're doing that,

680
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: you're on you're already playing defense, and you really need

681
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: to be playing offense. So I don't know. It's just

682
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 1: interesting that even now when I do dying a whiteness,

683
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: things like what I said in the book club was

684
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: I'm actually arguing against the conclusions of my own book,

685
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: and people will arguing with me, trying to get me

686
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 1: to make arguments I made two years ago. I'm like, no,

687
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 1: that's not you know, I'm arguing against myself. So it's

688
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: it's a weird time, man. And but I think that

689
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: that's it's so smart, though, Jonathan, because what you what

690
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: you are modeling in that book club is the fact

691
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: that like the world around us is evolving, that there

692
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: is no idea that is immovable, right, Like it just isn't.

693
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: And it takes you know, recognition and vigilance to recognize

694
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: that what I thought two years ago is not reality.

695
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 1: Now that's the problem you want to It's not a diagnosis,

696
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 1: but that's part of the problem of where we are.

697
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: Where Republicans want to drag America backwards in the hope

698
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: that they can stop evolution, that they can stop progress,

699
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: that they can stop a demographic shift. If we don't

700
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: talk right about America's origin story, if we continue to

701
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: whitewash it, if we gas light the entire nation and

702
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 1: generations to come, and then remove books, remove education, remove enlightenment,

703
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: remove critical thinking. Right, it is it's about power, and

704
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: it's about control, because if you know nothing right, and

705
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: you believe that the people that you represent are actually

706
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 1: there for your good will but they're not right, then

707
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 1: like you're easy to control and manipulate, particularly when the

708
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,879
Speaker 1: basis like the systems that are supposed to be there

709
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 1: to protect you, like our education system, our healthcare system,

710
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: our environmental system, all of these things are broken down,

711
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: then your basic needs aren't even being met. So then

712
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:07,439
Speaker 1: what happens, right, violence? Right, Like, so all of these

713
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 1: things are bubbling up. We're watching it on a macro scale.

714
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: Happen in the Ukraine, but to your point, it's happening

715
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 1: in the United States. We just don't call them invasions.

716
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: But I don't know what else you would call what

717
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:21,879
Speaker 1: we've seen at school boards. I don't know what else

718
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: you would call the insurrection. I don't know what else

719
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: you would call the overtaking of the Capitol Building in

720
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 1: Michigan in twenty twenty. If those aren't those, if we're

721
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,879
Speaker 1: not using the language to describe what is happening, then

722
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 1: we definitely do not have the strategy in place to

723
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 1: stop it and also to rebuild the structures that support

724
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: you know, like think of how much work went into

725
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: building the public school system, for example, after Brown versus

726
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: Board of Education rights, massive mobilization of effort and resources

727
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: and talent. And so I don't know who's defending those

728
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 1: structures right now, because those are the structures that support

729
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: our world view. I actually don't agree that it's going backwards. Um.

730
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: I think that it's it's a power graph in a

731
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: certain kind of way that in a way we have

732
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 1: to see it as a zero sum formulation in a

733
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: way now it feels awfully regressive right because it's anti scientific,

734
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 1: anti expertise, and but but I don't know. Part of

735
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,919
Speaker 1: what's happening is they're making liberal America or the United States,

736
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: if you think of the Russian approach right now, pay

737
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: a high price for supporting pluralistic democracy or social programs.

738
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: Those become very costly in the face of trying to

739
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: defend yourself. So it turns, with the strength of liberal

740
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 1: America into into real liabilities in a way. And so

741
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: the question is what's your response. And again, I with

742
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: all due respect, I mean, I'm a scholar of critical

743
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: race theory, right I've built my career on it. But

744
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: I would also say that fending crediical race theory is

745
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,240
Speaker 1: not where we need to be right now. It's every

746
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: time that happens, you mobilize and you support that ideal

747
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: and you support that structure. I just feel like critical

748
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 1: race theory is a textbook example right now of how

749
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: we got derailed and did not support or fight back

750
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: in a way that really took um. You know, you

751
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 1: know that that's obviously an effort to control school boards

752
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: and defund education, but we're too easily derailed. I mean,

753
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: I think everybody should read that Washington postpace this morning,

754
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: even though many people want to agree with it, just

755
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 1: to just to see about what kind of wents it stayed.

756
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: I mean, Jonathan, there is so much that is at stake,

757
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 1: and I know that we do our very best not

758
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: to present a dooming gloom perspective, but the reality is

759
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 1: is that if you are not concerned. If you're not

760
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 1: up at three am, you're really paying attention. And I

761
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 1: do believe in balance, trust me, but I also believe

762
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 1: that these times are going to get continue to get

763
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 1: more and more increasingly perilous. And the question is what

764
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: can you do right as individuals, as part of communities

765
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 1: to keep yourself safe and examine what that safety looks

766
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: like in order to be able to make it to

767
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: the other side. Because the road that we are on,

768
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:30,760
Speaker 1: dear friends, is going to be a long and rough one. Jonathan.

769
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: We just appreciate each and every week that you are

770
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,439
Speaker 1: on this road with us, and so we will see

771
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:41,360
Speaker 1: what happens next week. Appreciate you. Take everybody in WWRD.

772
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: What would Rocky do? I haven't beat the shit out

773
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 1: of somebody. Yeah, folks, And now for your woke moment

774
00:49:54,520 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: of wellness before we close out the show. The articles,

775
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: these conversations that we are having can be incredibly debilitating,

776
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:08,720
Speaker 1: and I mean this, I say this all of the time.

777
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 1: And I talked to you yesterday about feeling guilty with

778
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 1: just resting, just laying down on my couch, and so

779
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 1: this morning I decided to do a very lengthy meditation

780
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,840
Speaker 1: usually I do you know, if I have time about

781
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: five to fifteen minutes right, Yes, this morning I decided

782
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: to do one that was over thirty minutes because I

783
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: realized that my my vibration is out of whack right now,

784
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: that any time that I take a little bit of

785
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 1: a break and then dive back in, it's like all

786
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 1: of my nerve endings are on overload. And what I

787
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: recognize is that for me to be able to focus

788
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 1: on what this service is that I am offering, what

789
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 1: my purpose is on this planet for as long or

790
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 1: as little time as we have left, I need to

791
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 1: be able to steady myself. Right. You want to vibrate

792
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: highly because you are aligned with the most tie. You

793
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 1: don't want to be jittery and all over the place

794
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: because you are taking on all of the negative and

795
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 1: toxic energy that is around you. So for folks who

796
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 1: have yet to try meditation or yoga or any type

797
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: of stillness, I just recommend each and every day finding

798
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,760
Speaker 1: time to just be still and breathe. Whether you're listening

799
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 1: to a guided meditation, or you have singing bowls that

800
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: you that you play, or what have you, but just

801
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,879
Speaker 1: trying your best to put on a timer on your

802
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: phone to sit still for two minutes and just breathe

803
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 1: right and just ground because you will find that in

804
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 1: these challenging times that that is going to be a

805
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 1: skill that we are going to need to develop. That

806
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 1: if you can find yourself grounded and centered in the

807
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 1: midst of in the midst of chaos and conflict, that

808
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: is going to be how we win, how we win internally,

809
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:15,840
Speaker 1: how we stay healthy, and how we continue to stay focused. That,

810
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 1: dear friends, is your woke moment of wellness. That is

811
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: it for me today, dear friends on Woke af as

812
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:32,760
Speaker 1: always power to the people and to all the people. Power,

813
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,319
Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.