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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so

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Speaker 1: much for tuning in. That's our super producer, mister MAXI

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Speaker 1: Freight Train Williams.

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Speaker 2: Hello, I'm still in the same Amaziel.

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Speaker 1: Yes, they call me Ben Bullen for tax purposes here

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Speaker 1: in BaHaB? Is this a legal inquiry? The joke that

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Speaker 1: never gets old? That is mister Noel Brown. We are

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Speaker 1: joined again with our special returning guest, one of our

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Speaker 1: closest friends brother in podcast arms, the one and only

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Speaker 1: mister Matt twohands, Frederick.

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Speaker 3: Matt the taxman.

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Speaker 4: Frederick, my ex accidentally claimed my son as a dependent

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Speaker 4: this year. She's not supposed to this year, this past year.

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Speaker 4: So I tried to send in my taxes and guess

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Speaker 4: what they got sent back? So no, currently an extension period. Boys, Okay,

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Speaker 4: had to pay my taxes already because that's what they

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Speaker 4: make you do, my estimated amount. But now I've got

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Speaker 4: to send in all my papers.

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Speaker 3: I've always let the X claim the kid. That's just

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Speaker 3: that I don't know. I guess I'm just nice like that.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 1: Also, it's so weird to think about how the irs

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Speaker 1: works in the United States, where they know how much

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Speaker 1: money you're supposed to pay, but you have to do

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Speaker 1: It's like you're in a toxic relationship where they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you should guess why, guess what it is? Can you

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Speaker 1: guess why I'm angry and you do it wrong?

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Speaker 5: It's not gonna correct you, Like no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 5: you gave us too much money or you're asking them

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Speaker 5: too little back. No, that can correct you. It's only

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Speaker 5: if we meet the error in their way that's gonna

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Speaker 5: be you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just it's ridiculous. And taxation and big government have

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Speaker 1: always been a thorn in the sides the average person,

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Speaker 1: so much so that it's driven some people in the

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Speaker 1: past two acts of piracy.

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Speaker 4: Guys. A whole group of like five people just walked

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Speaker 4: past where we are and we'll talk about where we are.

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Speaker 4: They all had entire pineapples filled with what looked like

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Speaker 4: alcoholic beverages.

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Speaker 1: Wait's was an alcohol because in our usual podcast, in

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Speaker 1: our usual podcast studio, that would be very abnormal. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but here it's weird that we don't have those big

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Speaker 1: hollow pineapple booze drinks because we are here again in

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Speaker 1: Baja Mar beautiful resort. We've been here for a couple

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Speaker 1: of days. What are some of your favorite things you

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Speaker 1: guys have done so far.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm pleased to announce I did not get molested

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Speaker 3: by a flamingo, but I was forced to hold space

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Speaker 3: with them by our dear friend Matt Frederick. And I'm

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Speaker 3: glad I did. I'm glad I did.

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Speaker 1: You were forced?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Matt really twisted my arm about it.

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Speaker 5: But while I was like, no, buddy, you can hide

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Speaker 5: behind me. That's all good. The flamingos. The best thing,

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Speaker 5: I would say was flamingos getting all up and personal

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Speaker 5: and weird on my leg hair.

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Speaker 2: The worst thing was stepping on a bee. I did

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Speaker 2: step on a bee, but thankfully I'm not allergic.

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Speaker 3: To be Was it a tropical bee?

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Speaker 2: I don't know you were there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they looked like a regular bee.

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Speaker 2: It was lookally a bee.

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Speaker 3: Nothing right home about them.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm looking at a picture of the beautiful Baha

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Speaker 4: Mar right behind us where we're recording, and.

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Speaker 3: Man, you look at the pictures look out the window, man.

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Speaker 4: We well, because I can see the entirety of it

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Speaker 4: from the sea, and it's gorgeous and the scale here.

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Speaker 4: It's hard to even really understand how many different buildings

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Speaker 4: and restaurants. And don't forget the casino.

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Speaker 1: Where I made so much money and my girlfriend took

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Speaker 1: all of it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what they call a humble brag.

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Speaker 1: There's nothing humble about it. Man, she got me.

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Speaker 2: Am I at three steaks? You and already or am

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Speaker 2: I too? Have they've all been delicious?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Man, I think you're up there.

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Speaker 3: So Matt's up on steak, I'm down on money. Bends

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Speaker 3: up on money and maybe even on steak.

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Speaker 2: I've been to the same restaurants so many times they

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Speaker 2: now know me. There's a dular. This morning they came

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Speaker 2: out of Max's way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, at the swimming pig, which we can hang it

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Speaker 1: out at him.

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Speaker 2: Very conditioned, very condition friendly.

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Speaker 4: Have we all been watching snl uk?

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen the latest one.

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Speaker 3: I saw that they did a black snape riff.

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Speaker 4: Okay, okay. They made a song I felt very much

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Speaker 4: like the Lonely Island songs back in the day, and

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Speaker 4: it was all about British pubs in vacation. And when

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Speaker 4: I saw I saw, I was like, what is the

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Speaker 4: swimming pig thing? Max keeps talking about went By. I went,

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Speaker 4: oh my god, this is that song.

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Speaker 1: This is that song?

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Speaker 3: It is?

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Speaker 1: It is a British theme, Paba and the Food. So

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Speaker 1: what do you say, guys, let's get into it. Everybody

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Speaker 1: check out our earlier episode on some pirates who may

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Speaker 1: not be familiar with and tune in because in port two,

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Speaker 1: we're moving outward across the world, literally around the world.

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Speaker 1: We're not talking about the Caribbean. We are talking about

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Speaker 1: the Far East. Guys. Did you know the world's wealthiest,

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Speaker 1: most successful pirate in all of human history is a

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Speaker 1: Chinese woman known as Chin Shee No.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I saw the name pop up in my

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Speaker 3: research and I was very unfamiliar. And I'm so glad

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Speaker 3: that you picked this one band, because you're really great

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Speaker 3: at the Chinese pronunciations.

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Speaker 5: I think the only reason I know who she is

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Speaker 5: is I believe she is a great person. You can

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Speaker 5: get in Civilization six. She's a great admiral.

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Speaker 1: Oh, there's also a character based on her in the

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Speaker 1: Pirates of Caribbean of the Caribbean franchise. Really yeah, based

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Speaker 1: on a real person. Kind of loosely, I'm just gonna say,

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Speaker 1: Pirates the Caribbean.

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Speaker 2: What the Karen Knightley character.

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Speaker 1: No, it's actually Johnny Depp's character. You have to think

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Speaker 1: about the subtext.

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Speaker 3: Amazing just for a chameleon that Johnny Depp.

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Speaker 1: Sure he is actually a chamelion.

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Speaker 4: Can you spell her names for anybody that wants to

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Speaker 4: look it up right now?

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Speaker 1: Sure?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: The street name is chin Chese, so that would be

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Speaker 1: c h i n shih. We'll see why that's a nickname.

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Speaker 1: She's also known as more formally as jin ysau so

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Speaker 1: z h n g space y I space Sao. She

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Speaker 1: did not start off as a pirate. Well, I guess

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Speaker 1: there are very few people who are born as pirate. Like,

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Speaker 1: can you imagine your kid is born and the doctor says, now,

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Speaker 1: you've got a healthy baby, boy, but there is a

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Speaker 1: condition we want to tell you about. And the kid

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Speaker 1: already has an eye patch and like a peg leg

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Speaker 1: and a bird.

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Speaker 4: That's it all.

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Speaker 1: You can live a full life of piracy. You'll just

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Speaker 1: have to get them a boat a certain medical condition. So, okay.

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Speaker 1: This person comes to us in the beginning of the

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Speaker 1: eighteenth century, and at first she is what we would

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Speaker 1: diplomatically describe as a sex worker in a floating brothel, weird,

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Speaker 1: but it's what it sounds like. Like. The last time

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Speaker 1: we were over in Thailand or the first time we're

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Speaker 1: in Thailand, we saw floating markets, which are essentially communities

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Speaker 1: and cities linked by pretty narrow waterways. Oh, you can

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Speaker 1: buy a house there too.

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Speaker 3: Heck yeah.

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Speaker 4: Did did we all watch the show Firefly?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the Space Pirates show.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it reminds me of the character you get interest

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Speaker 4: introduced to in the first episode, the pilot, where I

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Speaker 4: think they refer to her as a diplomat maybe, but

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Speaker 4: she is on a space ship in all for all

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Speaker 4: intentsive purposes functions like a brothel essentially, but also as

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Speaker 4: diplomatic relations in some way.

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Speaker 2: But anyone, last name, but.

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Speaker 3: Now different.

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Speaker 1: Well, we all know the person, and yes, that like

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Speaker 1: a space cort is on. Yes, yes, so this this person,

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Speaker 1: Jiang Yisao, is not that different. She is working in

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Speaker 1: the city of Canton in this floating brothel, and she

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Speaker 1: runs into a guy named Chang Ii or Chang the First.

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Speaker 1: He is already a pirate. He's a big deal pirate.

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Speaker 1: He's been terrorizing the South China seed during the Qing dynasty.

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Speaker 1: And this is a bizarre rom come bizarre romance. So

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Speaker 1: Chang hears about this lady right here, she's good in bed.

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Speaker 1: We also hear she's great in business, and so yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: double threat. So he seeks her out at this floating

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Speaker 1: market and he says, oh crap, you're you're also hot

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Speaker 1: and you're good at business. Oh and to your point, Matt,

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Speaker 1: he finds out that she is using the secrets she

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Speaker 1: learns sleeping with clients to blackmail them, to get money

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Speaker 1: from them. They're wealthy, they're politically kills oldest time tale,

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Speaker 1: as old as time song, as old as rhyme.

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Speaker 3: And that was certainly a power move that women had

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Speaker 3: in the days where you get close to powerful men,

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Speaker 3: you have them in compromising situations, you were able to

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Speaker 3: get dirt. Yeah, you can then use to your benefits

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Speaker 3: patriarchical side.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 4: I wonder if they like compiled a bunch of files

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Speaker 4: or something and then blockaded maybe another country to prevent

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Speaker 4: those files from coming out or something.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe they got dirt on people before they became

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Speaker 1: part of an administration they weren't qualified for.

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Speaker 4: Oh interesting, that feels light. I don't know, it feels familiar.

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Speaker 1: Max, Please less palpably. Everything is politics. Everything is history,

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Speaker 1: shout out dead press.

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Speaker 5: But okay, I really wish that my facial expression could

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Speaker 5: have been caught right looked at it.

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, I can hit you

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Speaker 2: all right now. I'm sorry, work, I can't.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 4: This is ridiculous history.

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Speaker 1: No, no, it's also all me. Okay, you guys play nice.

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Speaker 1: This is a rom com kind of thing. Shen Y

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Speaker 1: is about twenty six years old. It's eighteen oh one

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Speaker 1: when this guy comes and says, I want to marry

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Speaker 1: you because you're hot and good at business. How old

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Speaker 1: she's twenty six?

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Speaker 3: Wow?

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay, So nothing epsteiny about it.

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Speaker 4: Well, no, I just mean that's so in my mind,

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Speaker 4: that's so young to already be so established and understand

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Speaker 4: a business so well, and then to be so successful

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Speaker 4: at it.

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Speaker 1: That's all no, I hear you, man. And unfortunately the

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Speaker 1: implication is that she probably started early. So this guy

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Speaker 1: comes here, has a very weird marriage proposal, and he

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Speaker 1: finds out the hard way that yeah, she is that

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Speaker 1: good at business because she says, okay, Chang, I'll marry

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Speaker 1: you if you give me equal control of all of

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Speaker 1: your ships. And he had already United multiple rival Chinese

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Speaker 1: pirate gangs. So he was running an empire. So it's

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Speaker 1: kind of like if you went to and it's a

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Speaker 1: good example, I guess for the boats Richard Branson. If

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Speaker 1: someone went to marry Richard Branson and they said, I'll

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Speaker 1: do it, but you have to give me all like

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Speaker 1: all of your planes.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna need a prenup in all your boats.

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Speaker 1: And so Chang said yes, and so I just went out.

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Speaker 4: That makes him a really dangerous person to the established

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Speaker 4: governments that are operating out there. Right. Yes, we know,

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Speaker 4: folks like Fred Hampton like how dangerous it is when

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Speaker 4: there are disparate or disconnected groups who kind of want

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Speaker 4: the same thing or fight for the same thing. Yes,

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Speaker 4: I am when they Yes, when somebody or the organizations,

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Speaker 4: you know, when somebody can come together, can bring people

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Speaker 4: together like that, that is very dangerous to the establishment.

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Speaker 1: And how about this, because I know we've got to

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Speaker 1: be fair, how about instead of be saying gangs, we

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Speaker 1: say organizations some of which were gangs.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, no, no, you're right, you're right. That is

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Speaker 4: essentially how it's some were.

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Speaker 1: Just like let's give lunch the school kids, right, it's

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Speaker 1: a wide spectrum and it takes a real diplomat to

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Speaker 1: unite those stakeholders. And at first everything is working out

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Speaker 1: because Shanghi's how is all about this? She says, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm tired of this floating market. I'll help run the

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Speaker 1: new family business. In six years into their marriage, her

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Speaker 1: husband passes away. He's only forty two. We don't know

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Speaker 1: much about how he passed away, Like we don't know

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Speaker 1: if he was killed by the tsunami at sea, if

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Speaker 1: he was poisoned, maybe by his wife. We just don't

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Speaker 1: have a lot of information.

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Speaker 4: But I'm really surprised by that. Just I feel like

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Speaker 4: that guy would have gone out in some epic battles.

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Speaker 1: Ladies of Glory.

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Speaker 4: Well yeah, because again like the government somewhere would have

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Speaker 4: said this guy can't stay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like the ching dinasty devil. I didn't like him,

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Speaker 1: so why didn't they get him first? But regardless of

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Speaker 1: what happens, this leaves the up and coming pirate queen

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Speaker 1: in a very precarious position because there's a confusion based

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Speaker 1: patriarchical society. And this is where she starts to earn

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Speaker 1: her nickname that we mentioned, ching shit. It translates to

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Speaker 1: Chang's widow. So that's a morbid nickname. Yeah, that's where

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Speaker 1: you're you're every time someone meets you casually, they're reminding

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Speaker 1: you that your husband is dead. Yeah, they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you're the window lady.

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Speaker 3: Well that is interesting though, because you do often hear

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Speaker 3: those kind of dark nicknames associated with women and crime,

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Speaker 3: usually something like like the.

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Speaker 4: Black widow or the like you know what I mean,

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Speaker 4: or competitive eating.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Sonya Thomas, I.

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Speaker 4: Always played that up. I can't imagine. I don't know,

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Speaker 4: there's probably something really scary about that. I feel like

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Speaker 4: with some of the most successful pirteers. I'm thinking about

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Speaker 4: Black beerd in particular, some of the folks who had

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Speaker 4: the bigger ships and the bigger beers. Well, if you

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Speaker 4: had a crew and you looked out and you saw

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Speaker 4: a particular flag or you know, you you saw a

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Speaker 4: ship that you, oh, I know that's associated with the widow,

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Speaker 4: Like that would be a form of terror that that

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Speaker 4: strikes way before the ship gets anywhere near your ships.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they had their own version of Jolly Roger, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, it's one of these things too where

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Speaker 5: it's like maybe I don't even want to fight. Maybe

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Speaker 5: it's just surrender because we don't want to get Charles

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Speaker 5: vained right now?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Well, if it's Charles Vain, weavers in Firefly or Serenity, Like, okay, guys,

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Speaker 1: I think maybe.

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Speaker 5: Say Firefly, we don't talk about sriatedy. They had to

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Speaker 5: end the story quickly.

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Speaker 2: I get it.

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Speaker 5: But it's nowhere as good as Firefly, And like, let's

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Speaker 5: be Frank Harris's get off on a tangent. Sure, in

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Speaker 5: a world of remakes that are terrible and no one wants,

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Speaker 5: how have we never got on a season two a Firefly?

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Speaker 4: Wait, you guys, do.

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Speaker 2: Work that might be incredible.

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Speaker 1: It might be the next flight to Dragons.

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Speaker 5: You know, people talk about they want to clear up

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Speaker 5: scure movie. I want to clear up secure anime. Okay,

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Speaker 5: the excellent, excellent, after the near Tamana. Yeah, I want

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Speaker 5: to clear up scarean.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna want to anime it this one as well, guys.

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Speaker 1: I love that we're mentioning black Beard because after her

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Speaker 1: husband dies and she gets this grulish nickname, ching Shih

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Speaker 1: starts commanding over eighteen hundred pirate ships. What an estimated

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Speaker 1: eighty thousand pirates for comparison to Blackbeard, who is also

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Speaker 1: very successful pirate. He commanded four ships and three hundred pirates.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's inconceivable.

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Speaker 1: It's definitely that's navy at that point. Yeah, very much.

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Speaker 5: So maybe at that point that's now.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, that's most of the ocean. There's one

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Speaker 4: if there's at least one of those ships out there

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Speaker 4: just checking things out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, a lot of these are going to

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Speaker 1: be sloops, right, They're gonna be smaller, but they've got

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Speaker 1: some big boys in there. And if you look at

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Speaker 1: authors like Laura Suk Duncomb, the author of Pirate Women,

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Speaker 1: The Princesses, Prostitutes and Privateers who Ruled the Seven Seas,

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Speaker 1: you will see that a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 1: historians called Ching Shi the greatest pirate who ever lived,

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Speaker 1: because she pirated longer than most people in a career

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Speaker 1: that has, you know, drop off rate, drop off drop

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Speaker 1: off rate, she makes more money, h she ultimately will

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Speaker 1: get to this. She ultimately gets away from the game

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Speaker 1: just fine, which is something that is like winning the

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Speaker 1: lottery thrice. So how did she in a society that

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Speaker 1: really just dumps on women, how did she succeed in

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Speaker 1: what's already a male dominated industry. She had a really

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Speaker 1: strict code of laws. We're talking earlier about the we're

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Speaker 1: talking earlier about the dark side of piracy in episode one, right,

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Speaker 1: all the horrific sexual abuse and assaults that would occur.

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Speaker 1: She had special laws about this. She said, any pirate

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Speaker 1: who is caught giving his own orders or disobeying the

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Speaker 1: orders of a superior has to be beheaded on the spot.

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Speaker 3: Wow, which is this is.

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Speaker 1: Not a three strikes kind of hr policy. And if

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Speaker 1: they had female captives and a pirate assaulted one of

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Speaker 1: those female captives under any circumstances, that pirate is also

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Speaker 1: put to death. If the sex between the two is consensual,

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Speaker 1: then they are both put to death. Wow, captives do

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying she was a nice lady.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's really interesting. I I was reading a bit

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Speaker 4: before we came in here today about relationships amongst pirates

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Speaker 4: and how complicated it could be, but also how normal

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Speaker 4: it could be, where if you usually you would have

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Speaker 4: a at least in what I was reading about Caribbean pirates,

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Speaker 4: you would have a often a man who goes out

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Speaker 4: on a ship as a part of a crew who

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Speaker 4: would have a wife and perhaps many children back somewhere

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Speaker 4: wherever he was, and just the.

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Speaker 2: Man to bring up Assassin's created a good well, no.

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Speaker 1: I remember, I remember, and your boat wife well.

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Speaker 4: But then but then on the boat it was very

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Speaker 4: difficult at least what again, Like I don't only know

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Speaker 4: what I've read thus far, but it seemed like it

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Speaker 4: was very difficult to keep women on ships like that

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Speaker 4: because of that chaos factor of having a bunch of

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Speaker 4: men at sea on a ship together, you know, and

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Speaker 4: and there's just there were often horrific things that occurred.

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Speaker 4: Having a punishment system set up for that that is

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Speaker 4: that strict, especially if it's a consenting perhaps even couple

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Speaker 4: or two people that are attempting to become a couple

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Speaker 4: while they're at sea. And I wonder why that was

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Speaker 4: so frowned upon.

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Speaker 1: I think it was her reacting to the norm. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that shows us how bad the problem was to be

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Speaker 1: enacted with that severity. It's kind of like if you

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Speaker 1: ever see a weird sign, like you walk into a

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Speaker 1: gas station and you see a sign that says, you know,

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Speaker 1: no shirt, no shoes, no drunk horses, then you know

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Speaker 1: that something happened with a horse at some point, and

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Speaker 1: probably often enough that they eventually they threw up their

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Speaker 1: hands and they said, we got to put it on

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Speaker 1: the sign.

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Speaker 2: Guys.

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Speaker 4: You know, you don't see those anymore. And I really wish.

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Speaker 1: I wish there were. We wish that there was less

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Speaker 1: of a sobriety movement among horses.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, nobody wants drunk horses around.

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Speaker 1: Uh. There's also Yeah, this was called the Red Flag.

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Speaker 3: The fleet.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about three years, a very short career of

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Speaker 1: piracy on the high seas. And during this time, Ching

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Speaker 1: Sheep beefs with everybody. She fights the Qing dynasty government,

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Speaker 1: so she fights the government of China, beats them. She

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Speaker 1: fights the Portuguese Navy, beats them. She fights the East

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Speaker 1: India Company beats them.

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Speaker 2: Whoa there.

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Speaker 1: They all try to, you know, smash down like you said,

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Speaker 1: Max and Navy, and they don't. They're not able to

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Speaker 1: pull it off. But the Chinese government, just like the

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Speaker 1: colonial governments in the Caribbean, eventually they throw up their

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Speaker 1: hands and they just say, hey, lady, look this is nuts.

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Speaker 1: We will forgive everything. We'll give you amnesty if you

397
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Speaker 1: just stop pirating all over us like you're piloting all

398
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Speaker 1: over our butts and our faces. We just can't take it.

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Speaker 5: That's like the blackjack tables right there.

400
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Speaker 3: Leave it on the table.

401
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Speaker 2: No left This caught on the BJ tape.

402
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Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I was trying to be shortened get out

403
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Speaker 4: an emergency message. Do we know roughly where she and

404
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Speaker 4: her naval forces are operating? Is it what we would

405
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Speaker 4: consider the South China see in that area of the Pacific,

406
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Speaker 4: or like, I just don't. I'm trying to imagine how

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Speaker 4: much ground or water you could cover with that many ships.

408
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Speaker 1: Right, this is coastal. I think it was up and

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Speaker 1: down that kind of eastern coast of the area. And

410
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Speaker 1: that also meant that it was hard to catch her

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Speaker 1: maybe to figure out where she was at all these ships, right.

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Speaker 4: I wonder if she had We talked last episode about

413
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Speaker 4: the Bahamas and Nassau in particular in a certain time

414
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Speaker 4: during piracy where Nassau was kind of the headquarters and

415
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Speaker 4: the place to go. I wonder if, like, if there

416
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Speaker 4: was a place like that in an island somewhere, an

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Speaker 4: island chain.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure there are lots of Heidi holes there too,

419
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Speaker 1: especially when you get when you around the island areas

420
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Speaker 1: and when you get to places that were adjacent to

421
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Speaker 1: trade routes, like if they went I don't know if

422
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Speaker 1: they went as far south as the Strait of Malacca,

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Speaker 1: but that would have been a huge money maker. And

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Speaker 1: so they couldn't beat her. They couldn't beat her. They

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Speaker 1: offered her amnesty and she accepted, and she went into

426
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Speaker 1: retirement with all her treasure and was never real We

427
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Speaker 1: don't really know what she did afterwards. She just flipped

428
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Speaker 1: the switch, lived a quiet life. She died at the

429
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Speaker 1: age of sixty nine in eighteen forty four, which is

430
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Speaker 1: so unusual for that time and for a pirate. It

431
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Speaker 1: was like the best.

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Speaker 5: Try a full life is a pirate is not something

433
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Speaker 5: that happens, like I can't think of any pirate that

434
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Speaker 5: lives longer than the end of forty which is usually

435
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Speaker 5: in the story.

436
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Speaker 2: And maybe him pirate in thirty A.

437
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Speaker 4: In that case, Oh, there was some pirate I was

438
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Speaker 4: reading about. No, I think he was one of the

439
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 4: guys you were potentially going to talk about John.

440
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Speaker 3: Yes, John Avery or I think Henry John Avery.

441
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Speaker 4: Went by a bunch of ultimately Avery and he was

442
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,959
Speaker 4: another one of these people that he pulled off some

443
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 4: insane attack where he made the equivalent of several hundred

444
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 4: million dollar on this one attack on several ships and

445
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 4: then just did the retirement thing and just kind of

446
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 4: checked out and got out of there. He apparently died

447
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 4: like a year later. Because but but you know, but

448
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 4: just this concept that you could actually hit the jackpot. Yeah,

449
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 4: you could hit the jackpot and then be done and

450
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 4: then live for that long with whatever that wealth brings you.

451
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 2: Well to jump in here.

452
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 5: I mean, this is kind of similar to like like

453
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 5: what we're talking about with Charles Vain about how it

454
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 5: wasn't really like obviously the money and stuff was important,

455
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 5: but like there was more going on there. I do

456
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,199
Speaker 5: feel like when we think about pirates, we obviously think

457
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 5: about like the nasthaal pirates, there was a lot more

458
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 5: going on there, you know, free themselves from the privateer.

459
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 2: Life, the conscription stuff like that.

460
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 5: Maybe it is more common than in other examples where

461
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 5: you know, it is more like in your case, like

462
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 5: almost a heist. I'm pulling a heist, you know, and

463
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 5: this one is like, you know, she inherited an empire

464
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 5: and she's like, you.

465
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 2: Know what, I'm going to retire? Why not?

466
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: Yeah?

467
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 2: You know, I don't think these guys in Nassau had

468
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 2: a retirement plan. I think there was. We're thinking right

469
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 2: now a lot.

470
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 1: We're just desperate to escape slavery.

471
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 4: Yes, oh man, that's such an important factor. When she retired,

472
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,120
Speaker 4: did that empire continue on without her?

473
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, But it's similar to It's similar to how

474
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 1: the Mongol Empire began to splinter after the death of

475
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,479
Speaker 1: Jengus Khan. So when they didn't have that leader and

476
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 1: other people were getting offered amnesty as well, right, they

477
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: were trying to avoid the long brutal arm of the law.

478
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: This is this is what Max, I think you would

479
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: like to see an anime of right of Chang's widow

480
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: on the high Seas. For now, you're going to have

481
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 1: to settle for the powerful mistress Ching one of the

482
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,160
Speaker 1: nine Pirate lords and the Pirates of the Caribbean. I mean,

483
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 1: we want to keep going. We got one more female

484
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: Chinese pirate. This is much more recent too. Yeah, okay,

485
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:02,360
Speaker 1: So nicknames are everybody loves a cool nickname. I'm addicted

486
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: to nicknames. Uh. One of the favorites we found our

487
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: research for this series is Huang two Guns Bomb.

488
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 3: That's nickname both.

489
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: Two guns two guns or mistress two guns or the

490
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 1: two gun Empress.

491
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 4: Are we talking like blunderbuss or are we talking.

492
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: This is way more recent? The CIA is involved in this.

493
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Okay. She is born to a peasant family

494
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 1: near Shanghai, and she is a criminal from the jump.

495
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 1: You know, like we said, babies can't be born pirates,

496
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 1: but if babies can be born criminals, this is kind

497
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: of our our culprit or, this is our suspect. She

498
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: became the leader of a local gang that was already

499
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: raiding coastal areas called Xiangshu and Shixiang, and she got

500
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: captured by the police. She was all to escape execution.

501
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: But this is occurring during the outbreak of what we

502
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: call the Second Sino Japanese War, which also doesn't get

503
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 1: talked about too often in a lot of textbooks, at

504
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 1: least here in the States. I have no idea of

505
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty seven to nineteen forty five. So this is

506
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: happening during World War two. Whoa longer than World War two? Yeah,

507
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 1: that's how recent it is. So because of this war,

508
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: she gets an opportunity to expand the brand. She says, look,

509
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: I'm a bandit. I'm a pirate, I'm a criminal. But

510
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: the nationalist military is recruiting people just like me because

511
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: we're good at violence. So imagine if the US Army

512
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 1: at some point said, hey, instead of just conscripting kids

513
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: out of high school, check out the prisons. That's kind

514
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: of all.

515
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 4: That happens inmates run the asylum. Anybody killer, Mike.

516
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. We got to get over to Bankhead Seafood.

517
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 3: You guys, I don't know about Bankhead.

518
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: See he co owns with t I. Okay, so together

519
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: we figured it out. He got their guys as we

520
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: did it. Yeah, let's we'll just we'll hit up bike

521
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: and go hang out with them. I think at the seafood.

522
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 4: Spot Killer, t I Pain. That's the way to do it.

523
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 4: So it's like all three.

524
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 1: There we go. Yes, it took me a second. Now

525
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: she is commanding people qualify as troops, and they are

526
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: still doing all their other stuff. They're smuggling, they're doing piracy,

527
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: they're doing illegal trade. And Huong and her followers are

528
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: recruited by the military to fight against the Japanese invasion.

529
00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: But then she becomes a propaganda gold mine. They as

530
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 1: they're like Okay, so how do we how do we

531
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: tell the public that we just are hiring a bunch

532
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 1: of criminals. Yeah, and they say, well, we got a rebrand,

533
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: we got to pivot, we got to get some good

534
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,959
Speaker 1: pr in here, and we are going to make a

535
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: new personality. Now, we're not going to talk about her past.

536
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: She is a patriotic woman, right, We're going to treat

537
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: her like a what's that same we used to have.

538
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: This guy's a shark, but he's our shark. They were like,

539
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 1: Quong is.

540
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 3: Talking about connor Burn.

541
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: He's our shark. But as we know, he has not

542
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: yet been convicted of piracy. Do you want to keep that?

543
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 3: I love it?

544
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll keep the part where I say do we

545
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: want to keep that?

546
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 3: As well?

547
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: The tension in the room rose, But yeah, no pirates

548
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: in our gig so far. Anyway, the Nationalist government, as

549
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: we know, in this nationalist Communist war, they retreated to

550
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: ty wand and then Wong gets into the secret service

551
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: and does guria warfare against the communist forces that are

552
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: winning the battle. Right, and so, in an effort to

553
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: appease this shark, the nationalist authorities give Wong land. They

554
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: give her a garment factory. They give her own factory,

555
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: and they give her a bunch of money, and they

556
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: do everything they can to hander all these things. Other

557
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: criminals are not getting this stuff, by the way, at all.

558
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: They're just not getting murdered. The reason, guys, that they're

559
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: kissing her butt so much is because if they don't,

560
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: they're certain that she is going to start collaborating with

561
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: the Central Intelligence Agency, who's already been kind of reaching

562
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: out to them, and be like, hey, you're pretty good

563
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: at a violence. You don't like communists, we should hang out.

564
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 4: Geez hi. I know we're just at a grocery store,

565
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 4: but I'm with the CIA exactly.

566
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like your garment factory. You know, I'm a

567
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: I factor in some things myself.

568
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, it seems like a really dangerous person that if

569
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 4: you could turn them, that would be a very dangerous

570
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 4: person to just be operating. And maybe the concept is

571
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 4: just I was gonna say, distract. We know, time is

572
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 4: the most valuable resource, right If she's got a garment

573
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 4: factory to run and a bunch of other stuff to manage, well,

574
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 4: then you're no longer you know, thinking so much on

575
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 4: the daily about all the you know, acts of kind

576
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 4: of warfare that you're going to do for a government

577
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 4: contract or something.

578
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: Kind of like when you have a really energetic kid

579
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: and you think I need to get this one addicted

580
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: to animal crossing.

581
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 4: Oh god, don't do that.

582
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 2: Everybody help you.

583
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: There is Max is plugged in. So the government also

584
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: promotes Slong as almost like a Rosie the Riveter figure

585
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: while they're doing this, So they're giving her fame as well,

586
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: and they're saying, look, not only can women participate in

587
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: war zone work, but they can do that on top

588
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: of managing the household. And then people start questioning the narratives.

589
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 1: So these films come out and these various research pieces

590
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: come out that say, oh, oh snap, you guys, this

591
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: thing is a pirate, like a real pirate, Like.

592
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 5: This is not like some like person who would normally

593
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 5: be made up as like oh this patriotic thing, like, no,

594
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 5: she's a Pirates are generally not that up. Yeah, and

595
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 5: moral and popular.

596
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: And so then there was a narrative war.

597
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

598
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: They have their they have a screup or two. It's

599
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: just there are a few. There's some honor among thieves.

600
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 3: Well, that's what we're talking about earlier, because there is

601
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 3: a certain pirate code.

602
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that that may vary depending on the ship, right.

603
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 2: And don't don't leave your phone on the BJ table.

604
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

605
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 3: And keep your cutlass clean.

606
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 2: Yes, really, especially especially at the BJ table.

607
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 3: NAC get ready for it. We're being serious here. No,

608
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 3: there were very specific rules that governed life aboard these ships,

609
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 3: and some of them had to do with keeping your

610
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 3: your outfits and your your weapons tight.

611
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 2: Oh wow, Oh yeah.

612
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,479
Speaker 5: Personal hygiene was very important on ships. I know, we're

613
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 5: gonna off on tangent here about you know, if you're

614
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 5: stuck on the ship for a long time. There's many

615
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 5: stories I came across about mutinies because the ships think

616
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 5: so bad, or the captains things disease.

617
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: You know, one person gets something that's transmissible by air,

618
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: then everybody screwed.

619
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 3: Important question, guys, what's the opposite of scurvy? When you

620
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 3: have too much vitamin C?

621
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: You have too much vitamin Uh we're all looking at you. Yeah, okay, fine, yeah,

622
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: it's scrivy questions.

623
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 4: But last question? Yeah, was the cutlass and Alton Brown

624
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 4: multi tool?

625
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 3: And was it a cutlass Supreme but like a moltis

626
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 3: with olives.

627
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, just no, but really could you because you would

628
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 4: use your cutlets for the obvious pirrating reasons, right, But

629
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 4: it's also a very shark oh yeah, knife potentially.

630
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: And rigging and so on.

631
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 4: Maybe or let's say you catch a bunch of fish.

632
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 4: Maybe there's some big old fish. I got a cutlass,

633
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 4: of course, I'm just wondering.

634
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's a great question.

635
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 5: Also, it's just referred to as a vitancy overdose. You

636
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 5: can't digest the excess.

637
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 3: Water soluble mm hmm. So it's not exactly toxic, but

638
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 3: it could lead to I believe some digestion.

639
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 2: Is floating diarrhea of the normal A lot man.

640
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 3: Max with the facts.

641
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 4: I just noticed Nole's hat and it is fantastic in

642
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 4: this environment, and it's got lots of flowers on it

643
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 4: is says something about Marcus.

644
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 3: It's Marcus, the restaurant we went to last night. Actually,

645
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 3: Brandy Ben's a significant other, suggested that I get this hat.

646
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 3: Didn't even notice they were selling them, doubled back, bought

647
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 3: the hat, gotten many compliments on it.

648
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 4: Since almost as cool as Ben's ATL hat.

649
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 5: That Atl and the ups and Matt I want to

650
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 5: count your beautiful hat, which is not a hat, it's

651
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 5: just your luscious.

652
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 3: Lots and those sweet, sweet white milky for a compliment,

653
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 3: Max your shirt, thank you.

654
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 1: Why don't you describe your shirt?

655
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,439
Speaker 2: It is a white cat and the tarot cards, saying

656
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 2: the white cat tarot card.

657
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: There it is.

658
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 3: Can I just let down on Matt's pale, white milky thighs?

659
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 4: Oh?

660
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: Really?

661
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 4: Oh, we're going there.

662
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 2: He's been there for the second time around. Back to

663
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:44,399
Speaker 2: the grotto, we shall go.

664
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: Oh yes, back to the grotto.

665
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 4: Uh.

666
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: So this is weird because it's pirracy, much more recent

667
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: than we think about when you think about pirates, right,

668
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: and we know that this lady was definitely a consummate

669
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,800
Speaker 1: pirate because she was switching whenever she's joined in different forces.

670
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 1: Was whatever worked for her, But also she became too

671
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 1: valuable to these different rival factions for anyone. She just

672
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: straight up killer because they were thinking, well, what if

673
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: we can turn her because we know this lady's a turnstile.

674
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 4: I see what you mean. That would be the most

675
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 4: dangerous person. And I do wonder why nobody decided, hey,

676
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 4: we have to take this person out because there is

677
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 4: a potential that even if we think she's working with us,

678
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 4: she's not.

679
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. And plus the fact that she's becoming a national figure,

680
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: even if controversial. Everybody was recognizing Rosie the Riveter during

681
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 1: the wartime in the US. People are recognizing her, and

682
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 1: she's become a heroic figure in Chinese history, often misportrayed, misremembered.

683
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: You'll see all these legends about her that are like

684
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: similar to George Washington, legends about how good she is

685
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: at firearms. They called her two guns is what it

686
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: translates to, because she was known for, at least according

687
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: to the propaganda and survivor's tales, she was known for

688
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 1: jumping into ships or into fights with two guns and

689
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: just pop popping off Renalds like Frank Reynolds. Yeah, well

690
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 1: he's usually you know, it's weird to me that he

691
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: usually just has one guy, you know. Anyway, then she

692
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: started blasting.

693
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 2: But then yeah, and so we know, just off, I

694
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 2: see him.

695
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 4: Sorry, I love it.

696
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: I love Danny And shout out to everybody who uh

697
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: restarted the rumhm joke. I posted a picture of us

698
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: visiting Flamingo's rumhands.

699
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 3: Simpsons, is that always funny?

700
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: Yes?

701
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, you closed a picture of us here. Yeah, yeah, okay,

702
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 4: I need to sorry.

703
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,240
Speaker 3: Oh my girlfriend made me do it, but promotion beforehand,

704
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 3: I was not ault.

705
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 5: I told him I'm welcome to do it, but he

706
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 5: cannot tag my Instagram because no one's allowed to have

707
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 5: my Instagram.

708
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: Oh it's just for tattoos.

709
00:36:59,040 --> 00:36:59,760
Speaker 2: That's for tattoos.

710
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 1: Is afoot. And so we know that people have still

711
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: gone back to Madam two Guns over and over to

712
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: embellish her story to try to figure out what the

713
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: truth of it is. We know there are there's plenty

714
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: of documentation of her violence and fighting Japanese forces, but

715
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: we still don't know exactly how she pulled all of

716
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,439
Speaker 1: this off because they were they had military training, and

717
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: her guys were just you know, criminals.

718
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 4: Weird. Yeah, and then it couldn't be a school of

719
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 4: the America's situation that's on the other side of the world.

720
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: I know, man, there's there's so much more to get

721
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: to about that character. But I think one of the

722
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: most important parts of this here is that she literally

723
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 1: became multiple things across her life that were in direct

724
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: opposition to one another, and then she became I don't

725
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: know if we should call her a national hero but

726
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, America has its own problems

727
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: with its national heroes. She ultimately does turn down the

728
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: offer from the CIA because they do go after a

729
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 1: hard and then.

730
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 4: It wouldn't hold on. She even if she accepted the

731
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 4: offer from the CIA, she would have officially turned down

732
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 4: the offer from the CIA.

733
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: Ding ding ding, Well done, Matt. And she after she

734
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: turned down that offer, she started to shift away from

735
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 1: piracy or what they were calling military operator or maritime operations. Uh.

736
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: And she becomes more active in the socialist government. She

737
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 1: was going to She did get in trouble a couple

738
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: of times because she kept trying to get Colonel Kurtz

739
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: about stuff and planning her own unsanctioned operations. You know,

740
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: you just get a taste for it, Okay, so maybe

741
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: he got it.

742
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 4: I feel like they got her, dude. If she if

743
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 4: she started embedding herself more into the government, getting more

744
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 4: involved in the socialist government, and then she's really paranoid

745
00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 4: about stuff all of a sudden, come on.

746
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: And then she also started acting later in life, yea,

747
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: in propagation films. Yeah, and in Taiwan. She ultimately dies

748
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: on May fourth, nineteen eighty two.

749
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 4: Wow.

750
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: So piracy is much closer than it looks in the

751
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: rear view mirror. And when she dies, the legend waxes

752
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: and waynes. But she's still remembered as a legendary pirate leader,

753
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: and depending on how the geopolitical winds blow in that

754
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 1: part of the world, they still bring her out as

755
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 1: a propaganda tool every now and then, and this is

756
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: one of those times. Is another moment.

757
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 4: Do you know if she has a like a family,

758
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 4: a legacy and that kind of thing that continues on

759
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 4: I would be interested in.

760
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, they have surviving descendants. Her grandson is a

761
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: guy named Shay Wick like John Wick. Yeah, and he

762
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:08,720
Speaker 1: went to a ceremony in Shanghai as recently on twenty fourteen, Wow,

763
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: the anniversary the Nanjing massacre. So the history repeats, Man,

764
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: still so baffling. We hope it's We hope it's interesting

765
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: to all our fellow ridiculous historians to learn that, despite

766
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: the rampant misogyny of a lot of piracy, the world's

767
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: best pirate was a woman, and some of the world's

768
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: most recent pirates probably worked for the CIA.

769
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 4: Wow, I'm not going to look at the ocean the

770
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 4: same After we leave this incredible studio.

771
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: Man, we are it. Seriously, We're not blowing rainbows, folks.

772
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: This is a great spot, and this is a very

773
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: nice studio, very.

774
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 2: Cool, Our lovely flamingo guides walked by just a man. Yes,

775
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 2: come on the podcast.

776
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:52,240
Speaker 5: Yes, we all hung out flamingos and they smell very nice.

777
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 5: Do not think that was the thing I was gonna

778
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 5: find out.

779
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 3: I know it was part of the tour. The smelling.

780
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 4: Let's clarify though, there is a smell to flamment inclosures.

781
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 4: If you've been to a zoo, yeah, it is not

782
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 4: the flamingo that you are smelling with that smell. When

783
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 4: you go up to a flamingo as we did and

784
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 4: you smell their feathers, they smell.

785
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 3: Incredible fresh and clean. Yeah, very fresh.

786
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 2: Yeah.

787
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,280
Speaker 1: And we can't thank you enough for tuning in, folks.

788
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: We can't thank the good people at Baja More enough

789
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: for having us, but we'll try. Thank you so much,

790
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:29,959
Speaker 1: Baja Seriously, nice one, thank you, nice, seriously, cheers.

791
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 2: Me, thank you.

792
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:33,720
Speaker 4: Got just say one thing I love about this place,

793
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 4: and I haven't been too many I haven't been to

794
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 4: many resorts of this size, and just how opulent and incredibly.

795
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 4: There's just so much cool stuff here. What they do

796
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 4: with water here on this resort is awesome. We receive

797
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 4: these metal bottles that I'm looking I'm looking around at

798
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 4: people walking around land. Everybody seems to have them. And

799
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 4: instead of giving everybody bottled water in places or having

800
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 4: that sailing a bunch of places, you just go and

801
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 4: you refill your metal water bottle.

802
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, like such a great idea.

803
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. The water features also, speaking of water, are amazing.

804
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: There's fire on the water and also the grotto and

805
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 1: also the grotto. We've got We've got so much more

806
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: to get to, folks. We are going to have more

807
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: pirate stories in the future. We're gonna farm them out

808
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 1: because I think twenty twenty six is going to be

809
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:28,439
Speaker 1: a pirate phase for us. Maybe, yeah or maybe. Thank

810
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,240
Speaker 1: you so much to our super producer mister Max Williams,

811
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 1: Thanks to Alex Williams who composed this bang in track.

812
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 1: And thanks very much to our returning guest mister Matt Frederick. Matt,

813
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: you got to come back on the show.

814
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 3: I thank you as well. Matt.

815
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: I'll pay you well, you know kind of.

816
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: Oh and who else.

817
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 3: Do we need to if you don't come back. I'll

818
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 3: hit you with me cutless, no slice, slice slice, Oh gosh,

819
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 3: who else? Chris Frosciotis needs Jeff Coats here in spirit,

820
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 3: Jonathan Strickland quist or A J. Bahamas Jacobs, Yeah, the Puzzler,

821
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 3: he might be here. I'm actually here in a hammock.

822
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: A big thanks to doctor Rachel Big Spinach Lance, the

823
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 1: rude Dudes a ridiculous crime. If you dig us, you

824
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: will love them and no thanks to you.

825
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 3: Hey, thanks to you as well. Buddy. We'll see you

826
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 3: next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the

827
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 3: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

828
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 3: favorite shows