1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to blow your mind. My name 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 3 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: Time to go into the vault. This episode originally aired 4 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: on August nineteen, and it was a prehistoric Transylvania. That's right, 5 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: a tale of giant Terra SAARs feasting on pony sized 6 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: dwarf Sara pods. So it's just it's just fun for 7 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: the entire family. You were standing in the halls of 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: Schell Castle. You approach a golden chalice, resplendent in an 9 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: embossed spiral of geologic time that winds around from rim 10 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 1: to base. At the merest touch, the chalice chimes and shivers, 11 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: dragging you back through two hundred years of history to 12 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: the castle's raising in the Transylvanian wilds. Off you grasped 13 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: the golden chalice, and time sheds from your perspective like 14 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: this again, of a great serpent, spiraling out in every 15 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: direction as you descend through the depths of centuries millennia, 16 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: through eons of evolutionary change in geologic upheaval, until the 17 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: chalice slips from your trembling grip and leaves you in 18 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: an Age of Wonders pottig as you knew it is 19 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: gone now a paleo island rising up out of the 20 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: Late Cretaceous Sea. You glimpse movement and note the approach 21 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: of several sauropods. Only these are not the hulking giants 22 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 1: you're familiar with. They seem dwarf creatures the size of ponies. 23 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: You could ride one, if only you dared to approach 24 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: its alien flesh. But before you can muster the courage, 25 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: the creatures scatter from the clearing predatory therapods to flee 26 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: back into the forests. As a great shadow descends from 27 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: the sky, a terrasaur to rival the dragon bowow of myth. 28 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: It lands before you. It towers like a siege engine, 29 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: but you've already thrown yourself to the ground. You're fumbling 30 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: for the golden chalice so that it might take you home, 31 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: or take you further back anywhere to escape the jaws 32 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: of hats. A got to extend them A welcome to 33 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: stuff to Blow your mind? A production of I Heart 34 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: Radios has to works. Hey, are you welcome to stuff 35 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: to blow your mind? My name is Robert Lamb, and 36 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 1: I'm Joe McCormick. And if you can probably guess from 37 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: that fun little cold open that we have prepared for 38 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: you there, we are going to be traveling back in 39 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: time in this episode via paleontology, back to prehistoric Transylvania. 40 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 1: That is so exciting, Robert, I can tell you are 41 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: just itching to like write a novel about this, this 42 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: ancient paleo island. Yeah. I was really inspired by this, 43 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: and this is one of those situations where I was 44 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: inspired by reading a dinosaur book to my son. Uh. 45 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: There's a book titled Atlas of Dinosaur Adventures by Emily 46 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: Hawkins and illustrated by Lucy Leatherland, and it has these wonderful, 47 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: you know, big two page spreads to show a different 48 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: part of the world and an idea of what the 49 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: prehistoric life might have looked like. And they had a 50 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 1: spread they cover every continent, and they had a spread 51 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: for heydeck showing like what what prehistoric Transylvania, of what 52 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: prehistoric Romania would have might have consisted of. And uh, 53 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: I have to admit, despite having you know, covered sauropods 54 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: on the show, and certainly we've talked about gigantic terra 55 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: saurs quite recently I wasn't really familiar with this corner 56 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: of the prehistoric world. It clearly it set off a 57 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: little explosion in your mind. I can sense the energy 58 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: coming off of you on the subjective hottig and I 59 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: wanted to say that you're opening reminded me of two 60 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: different things. The poem Directive by Robert Frost, which is 61 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: about going back in time and it also involves a chalice. 62 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, it talks about like I forgot about it, 63 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: or if or if I just uh, you know, came 64 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: up with that idea, you know, via some connection to 65 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: things that were inspired by what he wrote. You should 66 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: look it up again as a great poem directive, I mean, 67 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: but it also was like a cross between directive and 68 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: a sound of thunder. Yes, yeah, yeah, and I was, 69 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: I guess I also was definitely thinking about the time machine. Um, 70 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: you know, who can escape Wells's time machine when considering 71 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: the past at all? I mean, anytime you're thinking about dinosaurs, 72 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,799 Speaker 1: you can, and another prehistar creatures such as the pterosaurs, 73 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: you can't help but imagine like traveling back and encountering them. 74 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: That's the ultimate frame of reference, right, What if I 75 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: was standing next to one but this is the ultimate 76 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: real monster versus fictional monster crossover because because well not 77 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: to call dinosaurs monsters, but you know, they're the They're 78 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: one of the closest things to monster myths, to dragon 79 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: myths that you've got in the real world. So you've 80 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 1: got like a really interesting sort of dinosaur fossil site 81 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: with with interesting biogeographical qualities that we will explore as 82 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: we go on in the and the rest of the episode. 83 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: But it's right there in Transylvania, right It's it's vampire country, indeed, 84 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: and you know, we will encounter a fossil that has 85 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 1: been dubbed Dracula paleontolog is covering it. How about those 86 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: pony size sauropods. You didn't make that up, did you know? No, 87 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,119 Speaker 1: that's all. That's one of one of like the really 88 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: amazing things about about this particular scenario and and ultimately 89 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: about everything we're gonna talk about in this episode, is 90 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: that is that we're looking at an example, a prehistoric 91 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: example of island dwarf is um and island gigantism, also 92 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: known as the the island factor or the island rule. 93 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: And this is a concept we've talked about on the 94 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: show before. Oh yeah, yeah, it's come up several times. 95 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: It has to do with body size in populations of 96 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: animals that become isolated. It but will really just that 97 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: become isolated because it doesn't have to be on islands. 98 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: Islands is just the easiest way for it to happen. 99 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: Like another way it can happen or in these interesting 100 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: ecosystems known as sky islands, where um, I don't know 101 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: if you've ever see like like essentially a plateau, it 102 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 1: could be the like that. One great example that I've 103 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: been to is like in a big been National Park 104 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: in Texas. So you you have desert and then in 105 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: the middle of this there are some mountains rising up. 106 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: And as you go up the slopes of the mountains 107 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: and in between them at the higher altitudes, actually the 108 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: climate changes, right because it higher altitudes, it almost kind 109 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: of mimics higher latitudes, and so the types of plants 110 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 1: you find change, the types of animals you find change. 111 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: It goes from sort of desert to a weird kind 112 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: of forest up in the higher parts of the mountains. 113 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: And so this can function kind of like an island, 114 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: right because there are creatures that can survive up in 115 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: those mountain forests but can't traverse the vast expanses of 116 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: desert down below, or if they do it, it can 117 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: be very dangerous and that you know, might not make 118 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: it to anywhere they could survive. So anyway, well, you know, 119 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: wherever you have a case where species can survive in 120 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: a very limited geographical range and they're cut off from 121 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: the rest of the continental populations, you can have these 122 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: cases of island gigantism or island dwarf is um. Basically, 123 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: smaller species tend to become larger, and larger species tend 124 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: to become smaller, and there are multiple reasons for this, 125 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: but mainly it's that the smaller species tend to become 126 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: larger because on islands there is a lack of predators 127 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: that they would encounter on the mainland that would be 128 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: a check on their their growth. Meanwhile, larger species tend 129 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: to become smaller, presumably because of a lack of energy 130 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: resources that you would find on the mainland. There's less 131 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: to eat on the island, so it actually pays to 132 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: have a smaller body that requires less food. A commonly 133 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: cited example of this is like the mammoths that were 134 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: found on certain islands, like the gigantic Colombian mammoth evolved 135 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,679 Speaker 1: a dwarf variety on the Channel Islands off the coast 136 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: of California. There was also the Wrangel Island mammoths that 137 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: were I think the last wooly mammoth's on Earth that 138 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: went extinct around four thousand years ago. Were smaller than 139 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: their continental varieties. And the basic idea with these examples 140 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: is that they were able to reach these islands when 141 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: the water level was lower, and then they end up 142 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: trapped there essentially, and life goes on and evolution continues. Right, 143 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: Life goes on, but there's less to eat, so if 144 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,239 Speaker 1: you're trying to make a bigger body, you're more likely 145 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: to starve to death. So the ones with genes for 146 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: smaller bodies tend to be the ones that survive. And 147 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: so obviously we think about that, you know, examples of 148 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: this in the recent past or in the modern world, 149 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: But the same principles of evolution and energy and food 150 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 1: dynamics would have been in place in the time of dinosaurs, 151 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: right exactly, so you could run into exactly the same issue. 152 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: And it seems like that's exactly what's going on in 153 00:08:55,320 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: this ancient Transylvanian island called hot Egg. Yes, sixty six 154 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 1: million years ago, this region was an island in the 155 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: large body of water that we we refer to now 156 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: as the Taffy Sea. And this would have covered large 157 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: parts of Europe up through the Late Cretaceous period, and 158 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: it would have uh and it would have caused this 159 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: resulting group of islands to essentially be a European archipelago. 160 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: And German born paleontologist Hans Dieter SEUs describes it as 161 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: a quote shallow epicontinental sea dotted with variously sized islands. 162 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 1: Uh SEUs his senior scientist and Curator of Vertebrate Paleontology 163 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: at the National Museum of Natural History of the Smithsonian Institution. 164 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: And he even has a dinosaur named after him. Um, 165 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: so you know he's the real deal. It's a Paki 166 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: cephalosaur and Pacula Pakia cephalosaur. Hans Sus Sussia and Ceci. 167 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 1: Always a good sign and a paleontologist. The amount of 168 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: honor is directly proportional to how hard it is to 169 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: say a little known fact. We we should also note 170 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: that you know we're we're talking a long time ago here, 171 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,679 Speaker 1: so it's not million issue. Oh, Europe was flooded back then, 172 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: um no. As SEUs points out in a two thousand 173 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: Tin paper titled an Unusual Dinosaur from the Late Cretaceous 174 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: of Romania and the Island Rule, there was there was 175 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: complex tectonic activity along the northern margin of the western Tethys, 176 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: and then there was volcanic activity that resulted in these 177 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: cretaceous islands rising up. So and then the largest of 178 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: these covered much of what we now know as the 179 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: Iberian Peninsula and France extending into central Europe. Now, this 180 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: particular island in the Tats, which is you know, which 181 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: corresponds to the modern region of Hatig Transylvania, This would 182 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: have been roughly I'm reading eighty thousand square kilometers or 183 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: thirty thousand, eight hundred eighty eight square miles. And to 184 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: put that in perspective, modern day Ireland is uh roughly 185 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: thirty two five hundred ninety five square miles in size, 186 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: so so to Ireland. So sort of a you know, 187 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: a Romanian Ireland. Um that's crawling with odd sized prehistoric creatures. 188 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 1: So that's how we came to have these islands. Roughly, 189 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: these European islands in the late Cretaceous. Uh and uh. 190 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: And you know, we ended up with various creatures stranded 191 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: upon these islands. Uh. And they were subject to evolutionary 192 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: changes that we refer to roughly as the island rule. 193 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: So the Titanic sauropod is humbled to the size of 194 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: a pony, and other creatures that will get to rise 195 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: too much larger sizes. And who would read such a 196 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: such a thing from the fossil record? You know, you 197 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,599 Speaker 1: might you might think, especially given um uh you know 198 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: that that paper I just sided from two thousand ten, 199 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: you might think, well, this is a fairly recent discovery. 200 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: You especially might think that if you uh, you know, 201 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: like me, we're not familiar with this, this marvelous world 202 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: of of of oversized and undersized prehistoric beasts. But to 203 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,599 Speaker 1: look to the origin of these discoveries, we have to 204 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: look to a rogue Austro Hungarian baron of the late 205 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,719 Speaker 1: nineteenth and early twentieth century. All right, let's take a break, 206 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:07,439 Speaker 1: and when we come back we will meet the baron. 207 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 1: All Right, we're back, So it's time to meet the baron, 208 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: a character who plays a major role in the history 209 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: of the science and discovery of the the Paleo Island Hottig. 210 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: And this baron is Baron friends Noche von Felso Silva's 211 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: who lived eighteen seventy seven to nineteen thirty three. Yes, 212 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: Baron Nope, And and I have to have to admit 213 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: when we started this episode, I really didn't expect there 214 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: to be a fascinating human story in the midst of 215 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: all of this, even though, of course paleontology is always 216 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: a human story because paleontologists are the humans who who 217 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: uncover these secrets of the past. But I thought this 218 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: was just gonna be all, you know, rampaging prehistoric beasts, right, 219 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,079 Speaker 1: But this is a fascinating individual. And Smithsonian dot com 220 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: has a great article on Noche titled History Forgot This 221 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: rogue aristocrat who discover dinosaurs and died Penniless by Vanessa 222 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: vese Elka, which goes into far more detail in his 223 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: life than we're going to explore here, especially concerning some 224 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: some tragic in the later portions of his life. He 225 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: was a really interesting figure though, and this is a 226 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: great article, by the way, This is one that I 227 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: think listeners just should go go off and read. Definitely yeah, 228 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 1: he is. You know, it's tempting to want to just 229 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: sum him up in a few words like say, oh, 230 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: he was, you know, a gentleman scientists towards the end 231 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 1: of the time period in which the general that gentleman 232 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 1: scientists was a thing, and that's I think mostly true. 233 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: But then there are all these other weird dimensions to 234 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 1: his character. Um so, he was born into privilege and aristocracy, 235 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: but he also seemed to live with what we would 236 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: now likely classify as like as a manic depressive disorder. 237 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: You know, he was he was apparently prone to periods 238 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: of intense focus and energy, which is good when you're 239 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 1: engaging in you know, early fossil study and some of 240 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: the other activities he was involved in. But then, of 241 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 1: course the flip side is that that there were these 242 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: morose period as well. He's also described as like being 243 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,559 Speaker 1: absolutely brilliant in a scientific sense and mostly self taught, 244 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: you know, just learning from like writing to people and 245 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: getting them to send him books, and then teaching himself 246 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: subjects like biology and geology that you know, he didn't 247 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: have formal training in, and then making all of these 248 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: discoveries about dinosaurs and paleontology, and about deep time, but 249 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: also not always not always having the right kind of 250 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: social skills within the professional context to get his work accepted. 251 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: Like apparently he was very rude, and he was or 252 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: it could be very rude but could also be very charming. 253 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and and uh yeah. So much of it 254 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: again was he was self taught. He's he's writing other 255 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: experts and getting them to send him books. Or there's 256 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: also the story of him going off to university and 257 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: bringing this fossil with him from you know, from from 258 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: the area of Romania and you know he was from 259 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: and uh and the professor there was like he was like, 260 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: what is this? Help me figure this out? And he's like, 261 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, you can figure it out, essentially like 262 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: send him back with it, which you know, which is 263 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: the author points out of the Smithsonian piece. Um, you know, 264 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: the Suka says, that's either like some great tutelage where 265 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: the professor is like, oh, I'm gonna grow this young 266 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: mind by inspiring them to go, uh find the answer themselves, 267 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: or it's like a really lazy or overwork professor was 268 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: like I don't have time to help you, uh, you know, 269 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: decipher this rock. Go do it yourself, but do it himself. 270 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,359 Speaker 1: He did, and and so he's one of these remarkable, 271 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: you know, accounts of his kind of like a self 272 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: made gentleman scientists, though obviously had had a certain advantage 273 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: on the situation by being born into the aristocracy. Well, yeah, 274 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: that's a common thing you see in the history of 275 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: science that that a lot of the great scientists of 276 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: the nineteenth centuries say, we're we're sort of aristocrat types. Uh. 277 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: And obviously I don't think that's because aristocrats are better 278 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: at sciences because they had the resources and the leisure 279 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: to pursuit to like to get into these pursuits. If 280 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: you're a farmer working night and day, like, you don't 281 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: have the time and the money to go into the sciences. Yeah. Yeah, 282 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: so he was, And I said, he's like I said, 283 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: he's he's kind of emerging towards the end of the 284 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: gentleman science being a thing at all, and certainly towards 285 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: the end of his career. In the end of his life, 286 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: he was kind of shut out from scientific circles. Uh. 287 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: And some of the ideas that he he was was 288 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: promoting during his life were ultimately ideas that were not 289 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: widely accepted, though interesting, interestingly enough, would become widely accepted 290 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: many decades later. In the nineteen seventies, for example, is 291 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: a time when people started looking back at him and saying, oh, 292 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: here's this interesting character, uh from the history books. He 293 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: you know, he published a hundred and fifties scientific papers 294 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: in his life, and he identified twenty five genera of 295 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: reptiles and five different dinosaurs. But we've largely forgotten him, 296 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: and we don't celebrate him at all. Uh. And and 297 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: people started, you know, looking back and realizing who he 298 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: was and what he what he had discovered here, and yeah, 299 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: there are other aspects to his life that are all 300 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: interesting as well. Um, he was an adventurous individual. He 301 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: served as a spy for the Austro Hungarian Empire, but 302 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: he seems to have largely used his service to the 303 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: state as a vehicle for pursuing his interest in geography 304 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: and geology and the study of the Albanian people. Right. 305 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 1: There seems to be this like mix of interests here, 306 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: because like he apparently just loved the Albanian culture and 307 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: like wanted to study it and you know, document all 308 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 1: their customs and everything like that. But the government that 309 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: was funding his work basically wanted a sort of you know, 310 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: the early twentieth century equivalent of like a CIA fact 311 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: book on a country, right, and they wanted intelligence that 312 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: could be used and it could maybe be used in 313 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: warfare or something like that later on. So that's the 314 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: money going into what he's doing. But he but he 315 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: apparently was just in love with Albania and its people 316 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: and and its culture and at one point even through 317 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: his name in the hat to the actually be a king. 318 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: There's there's that whole storyline. Um. Again, I encourage everyone 319 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: to read that article about him. But again, his in 320 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: his scientific pursuits, he was very much ahead of his time. 321 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: Uh for starters. The theory of continental drift is now widely, 322 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: if not universally, accepted, but this was not the case 323 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: during Noch's life. Yet he presented some of the most 324 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: credible geologic evidence at the time for continental drift. And then, 325 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: of course, when it came to fossils, this is where 326 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: he made his arguably his greatest impact. He discovered some 327 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: some very curious fossils in the Hattic region, many of 328 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: which were noticeable for being quite smaller than examples that 329 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: were popping up elsewhere, and he argued that these were 330 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: examples of of of the island rule in action, that 331 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 1: the Hattig region was once an island in a prehistoric sea. 332 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 1: Now we'll get to the specific dinosaurs and prehistoric creatures 333 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: in a little bit, but just just consider he found 334 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: titanosaur sauropods the size of mere ponies, despite the fact 335 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: that Titana sars are the largest land animals that we 336 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: know to have ever existed, reaching sizes oh you know, 337 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: we're talking a hundred and twenty one ft or thirty 338 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: seven ms long and uh and the weights of somewhere 339 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: in the neighborhood of of of seventy six tons. And 340 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: yet he finds fossil evidence of these multiple noticeably smaller 341 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: uh Sara pods, and it just raised the question what 342 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: were they so well, I mean, the obvious things that 343 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: they're juveniles, dummy, right, aren't they Aren't they just baby 344 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: sara pods? Yeah? That well that was what critics argue, 345 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,360 Speaker 1: that these were just juveniles and uh. And certainly one 346 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: of the more alarming things about saraw pods is that 347 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 1: they do grow to such alarming size from relatively small eggs. 348 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: I mean, Sara pods are her weird and strange creatures. Uh. 349 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: You know that we're still you know, figuring out you know, 350 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: all the you know, the answers to the mysteries of 351 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: their biology. And so, you know, just the fact that 352 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: you find some small ones, you know, it does seem 353 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: like it could be it could be. One possible explanation 354 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: could be that, well, these were just the juveniles. Um. 355 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: And and this read doesn't seem to have completely fallen 356 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: out of fashion. As recently as two thousand seven, a 357 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: paper in historical biology by Jean Leloof argued that, uh, 358 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 1: that's some hot tag. Saarapod fossils might suggest quote age 359 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: class communities among sauropod populations. Oh so this is like 360 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: a gang of sauropod youths, Yes, exactly, like, yes, a 361 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: street gang of youths. Uh. You know. And I believe 362 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 1: we've discussed uh, this sort of thing in terms of 363 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: crocodilians and maybe commodo dragons on the show in the past, 364 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: the idea that some animals experienced tremendous body size changes 365 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: and therefore corresponding changes in diet and behavior and maybe 366 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: thought of as living in their own uh, niche daring 367 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: different phases of their life, either alone or in groups. Yeah, 368 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: different life phases. They're almost kind of like different animals. Yeah, 369 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 1: so you know, like a small commodo dragon is going 370 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: to eat different food than a full grown adult komodo dragon, 371 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: and the same might be the case with with like 372 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: a juvenile Sara pod versus of course a fully grown, 373 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: towering Sara pod. But according to SEUs, subsequent bone studies 374 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: have backed up the theory that we're seeing the effects 375 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: of the island rule in the bones of these fun 376 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: size Sara pods. Basically, in twenty eight ten, a team 377 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: of paleontologists looked at the micro structure of the bones 378 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 1: to determine age and growth patterns, and they showed that 379 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: this particular sauropod, these pony Saara pods, were fully grown 380 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: adults with small body sizes. And this is from a 381 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: paper from Benton at All published in Paleoclimatology paleo Ecology, Right, 382 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: I think so it mentioned in uh one of the 383 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: articles we were reading, I think it was the Smithsonian 384 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: article that his methodology was that he actually did molecular 385 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: analysis of the bones like the Nopesio was able to 386 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 1: determine the innosaurs were small adults and not young because 387 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: he was able to like look at the layers of bone, 388 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: like osteogenesis rings within the within cross sections of these bones. 389 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: Yeah so, or the fossils, I mean, yeah so. I 390 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: mean he was not just you know, making a wild 391 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: guess here, who was forming the best scientific hypothesis that 392 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: he could based on the material. And I have to say, though, 393 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: I guess it's just the idea of pony size sauropods. 394 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: It's just so attractive. I I'm so flint stones it is. 395 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 1: And there was like there was some movie growing up 396 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: too is I think it may have just been called 397 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: The Last Dinosaur, or like maybe the dinosaur had a name. 398 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: But I remember there being like a pony size sauropod, 399 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: some sort of puppet that that the the actors interact with. 400 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: I remember seeing that as as a child, So it's 401 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: probably uh, you know, brings back some of those memories. 402 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: But then also I mentioned when I was telling my 403 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: son about this reading to him from that dinosaur book 404 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, you know, he was instantly in love 405 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: with this idea of pony size sauropods because guess the 406 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: idea is if it is pony size, you could ride it. 407 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: You could walk up to the gentle saua pod and 408 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: jump on its back and go for a wild ride 409 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 1: through the late Cretaceous jungle. That's so good. I don't 410 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: know if this is the same last Dinosaur you were 411 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: thinking of. I just I was trying to call something 412 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: out of the deep childhood memory. And it is a 413 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: It is a dinosaur from an animated series of things. 414 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: It was like Fringe or something called Denver the Last Dinosaur. 415 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: And it is a He's like a hip skateboarding, sunglasses 416 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: wearing dinosaur with a kind of with a with a 417 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: head feature that looks like a mohawk. And I can't 418 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: tell if he's supposed to be a sauropod or a therapod. 419 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: It seems unclear. No that I don't think I've seen 420 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 1: that one. This would have been some live action fair 421 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 1: that I'm thinking of, like a VHS rental for sure. Well, 422 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: maybe after we get out of the studio today we 423 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: can go watch some Denver the Last Dinosaur and see 424 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 1: how it does. All right, Well, we're gonna take another break. 425 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: When we come back, we'll discuss some of the specific 426 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: prehistoric creatures that we we we have thus far encountered 427 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: in hot digg. Alright, we're back and it's time to 428 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: discuss the pony size magyaro saris. Okay, let's go for 429 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: a ride to settle them up. Alright, So again, while 430 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: while some have considered them to be juveniles perhaps living 431 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: in their own you know, social group apart from the 432 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: giant adults, bone evidence seems to suggest that they were 433 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 1: fully grown adults. And this would be, you know, probably 434 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: be perhaps one of nature's most impressive displays of the 435 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: island effect, humbling even the mighty Titanus are into a form, 436 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: you know, more befitting of this late Cretaceous ireland sized 437 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: uh island in what is now known as Romania. So 438 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: Sara bods in general, again, are just strange and mysterious creatures, 439 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: perhaps some of the strangest creatures ever to walk the Earth. 440 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,920 Speaker 1: I mean, they push the boundaries of what's possible in 441 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: a terrestrial organism, like what sustainable, what's even you know, 442 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 1: morphologically possible, and you know, and if these little guys 443 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: are just a ripple in an already amazing glimpse of 444 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: the prehistoric past, I mean, we've been seeing sarropods our 445 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,920 Speaker 1: entire lives, right, I mean we see them in in cartoons, 446 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 1: in toys and you kind of take them for granted. Right. 447 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: There's just this thing that Fred Flintstone slides down the 448 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: neck off or the tail off, I can't remember, at 449 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: the end of his work day, but getting petted by 450 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: Sam Neal. Yeah, they're just kind of the Jurassic Park. 451 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,479 Speaker 1: They're just kind of the backdrop. They don't really do anything, 452 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: um well, because they're not a media to source us, 453 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: but they are their own mystery, you know, when you 454 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: start getting into the details of you know, how they 455 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: fed themselves and and and even the various discussions about 456 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: just how something this big lives. Yeah, I mean it 457 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 1: starts well as you were just alluding to. It sort 458 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: of makes you question the what are the extremes of 459 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: what an animal can be and how it can survive? 460 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: Like um you know, obviously we've talked about giant animals 461 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: on the show before and about how they're they're just 462 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: sort of like problems that you might not even expect 463 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: when animals start getting past a certain size and volume, 464 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: problems with like heat distribution or like or like heat exchange, 465 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: and of course there'd be like energy issues especially, so 466 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: sorrow pods are you know, these are gonna be herbivores, right, 467 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: They're they're not meat a sources, so they're needing to 468 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 1: eat plant matter in order to sustain a body the 469 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 1: size of a boat or bigger, you know, So like 470 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: you just start to wonder, like how could they possibly 471 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: eat enough to survive? How could they do it? Yeah, 472 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: it feels like biology just out of control to a 473 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: certain extent. And uh and then in a sense, you 474 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: I guess you could look at it like that, you know, 475 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: like here is a form that is totally unsustainable if 476 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: anything drastic happens to the environment. And of course drastic 477 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: things did happen to the environment, and these were these 478 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,919 Speaker 1: were not certainly not the forms to survive the Late 479 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,959 Speaker 1: Cretaceous extinction event. But yeah, I would love to come 480 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: back and do perhaps a whole episode on sorrows in 481 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: the future, or bring on you know, a guest and 482 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: expert who can talk to us about the weird mysteries 483 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,879 Speaker 1: of sarropod life totally now. Right at the beginning of 484 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: the episode, we mentioned a a terrasaur called hats agopterics. 485 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: I know this one caught your fancy Roberts. So what's 486 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 1: the deal with hats agopterics? Alright, So we've we've talked 487 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: about the flying terrasaurs on the show before, the prehistoric 488 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: flying reptiles that took to the air on a membrane 489 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: of flesh that stretched between their ankles, and they're greatly 490 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: elongated fourth finger. So creepy to see the skeletons and 491 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 1: realized that the wing is a finger. Yeah, because it's 492 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: a it's a distinctly different wing arrangement compared to the 493 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: vertebrate flight of birds and bats. Closer to bats, it 494 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: seems closer to bats. Yeah, but still, you know, very 495 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 1: much its own thing. And of course we've recently discussed 496 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: the mighty uh Quatso koalis, the this this godlike giant 497 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: terra saar that was found in the late Cretaceous but 498 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: in North America. We often speak of it as being 499 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 1: perhaps the largest creature to ever fly inve Indeed, it 500 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 1: truly did fly, and and most paleontologies seem to think 501 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: that it did, but there is some disagreement there. We'll 502 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: get into an example of that. But you know, it's 503 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: it's ultimately only one of the sky Lords of Old, 504 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,959 Speaker 1: because we had certainly had had Q the wing serpent, 505 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: but we also had hats agopter X. Both are of 506 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: the same family as dark a day So named for 507 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: the Persian dragon Ozdaha. So hats agopter X was a 508 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: terra saar, a winged reptile that when it was standing 509 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: on the ground, would have been as tall as a giraffe. 510 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,959 Speaker 1: And that's that's on. We're not talking like reared up 511 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: on its hind legs exactly, though it's morphology is is 512 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: very distinct. We we have an image of this creature 513 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: and an artistic rendering that you'll find on our home 514 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: page and stuff to blow your mind dot com. But 515 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: as it's you know, it's standing there on its hind 516 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: legs and on its its wings, it would have been 517 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: as tall as a giraffe with this enormous head, and 518 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: if it were to actually spread its wings you would 519 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 1: have a wing spat of roughly thirty six feet. It 520 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: had this broad skull uh and and you look at 521 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: examples of the skull or at least two ideas of 522 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: what the full skull would have looked like, and it 523 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: almost looks too big to fly, but apparently it was 524 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: made fliable by polystyrene like structure that gave it tremendous 525 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: strength but also lightness. Yeah, this is the thing you 526 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: see with birds and you see with pterosaurs because their 527 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: bones have to be very light in order to fly, 528 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: so they often have a kind of hollow or low 529 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: density structure. Now, one of the really cool and ultimately, uh, 530 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: you know, nightmarish things about the hatsogopterres and and other 531 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: uh and and it's you know, large terra Sarkin is 532 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,959 Speaker 1: that regardless of their flying ability, to whatever extent they 533 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: were or were not capable of flying, their fossil suggested 534 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: they were rather adapted moving about on all four is 535 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: on the ground, and not not only just moving about, 536 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: but hunting their prey in this fashion. So you know, 537 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: great folded living cargo planes that tower over the dwarf 538 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: herds of of saara pods, scooping them up and their 539 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: powerful jaws and gobbling them down. Uh. That's that's ultimately 540 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: the vision that we're left with. It's astounding to imagine 541 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: this thing, that this form that has evolved to take 542 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: to the air and then returned a giant to the 543 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: earth and then ruling over these these diminished sara pods. Yeah, 544 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: it's not really similar to what you see with birds, 545 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: for example, because birds don't crawl with their wings right. 546 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: When birds move around on the ground, they tend to 547 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: they walk on two feet. They're more like the therapod 548 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: uh dinosaur design. They walk on the two feet and 549 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: they got their wings folded up. These are more like 550 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: sometimes you can see bats crawl this way where they've 551 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: got the they've got the winged hands that are part 552 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: of the wings, but they still use them to crawl quadrupedally. 553 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 1: And so when you see representations of this, I've seen 554 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: it animated the way these giant terosaurs would crawl. It 555 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: looks messed up. It's really scary. Yeah, I think bats 556 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: are probably the best uh you know, contemporary comparison. Particularly 557 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: there is a type of of of bat that you'll 558 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: find in New Zealand, uh the Mista synoda bats, and 559 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:25,960 Speaker 1: they spend much of their time on the ground there. 560 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: They're certainly capable of flight, but they crawl around a 561 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 1: lot of the time. So they have their their claws 562 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: have extra projections that aid in digging around in the 563 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: dirt and uh and and climbing on the on on 564 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: the sides of trees and their wings fold back in 565 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: a unique way. So there, you know, it's more streamlined. 566 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: So when it's in in ground mode, it it really 567 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: looks more like some manner of rodent in a sense. 568 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: I mean, there's is still clearly a bat, but but 569 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: it does seem like this you're seeing a similar situation 570 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: where this this this winged form has taken act of 571 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: the earth and due to uh, you know, the particular 572 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: you know, relaxation of the predatory pressure in its environment, 573 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: is able to sort of become you know, a big 574 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: deal on the ground again. Okay, so it has the 575 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: optics big on the ground, big on the ground, A 576 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: big deal on the ground. I guess that's one of 577 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: the things that's just that's just so um, you know, 578 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 1: topsy turvy about the scenario, right, is that again the 579 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: small saua pods and the giant winged creature that doesn't 580 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: necessarily have to fly anymore, that they can just uh 581 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: you know, roam about on all fours and gobble up, 582 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: you know, whatever it pleases with virtually no predators. And 583 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: that's that's key to to figuring out why has the 584 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: gop directs was so big. It would have had no 585 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: predators in an abundance of food. And here's the thing, 586 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: perhaps even a larger food than they would have found elsewhere, 587 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: because they have this enormous meal that you know they're 588 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: They're probably not eating a saua pod uh in other scenarios. 589 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: But here, well no, of course not, I mean unless 590 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: there may be scavenging or yeah, but but but here, 591 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: suddenly the sauropods are smaller, perhaps even bite size or 592 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: fun size, if you will. And so they grew large 593 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: and dominant lords of earth and sky, and keeping with 594 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: the Mahars of Edgar Rice Burroughs fiction, these were the 595 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: this sort of Terra sar like creatures that ruled over 596 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: one of his fictional worlds. Fattened on Sara ponies. Yes, uh, 597 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: there's even one particularly large fossil that they found in 598 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: Hauntig that they actually dubbed Dracula. And this wasn't in 599 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: in two thousand nine, and they found fragments of an 600 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: even larger specimen or at least a specimen of the 601 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: far larger lower jaw in two thousand eighteen. Michael Habib, 602 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 1: an expert on terra sars at the University of Southern 603 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: California told National Geographic dot Com and een that he 604 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: believed that this latest specimen was this latest specimens especially 605 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: was probably too large to fly. Uh that it may 606 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: have flown when it was younger, but then it basically 607 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: reaches the point where it's it's large enough and it 608 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: doesn't have to anymore, which is interesting because we're kind 609 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 1: of coming back to this idea of a creature growing 610 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: and it's sort of mode of of operations. It's a 611 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: it's diet changing. So you could have a creature here 612 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: that you know, when it's young, it's still flying from 613 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: place to place, but then once it reaches a significant size, 614 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: it has no need to fly anymore, maybe has limited 615 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:33,800 Speaker 1: ability to even achieve powered flight anymore, but it's not 616 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: an issue because it's a towering TerraSAR monster that eats 617 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: all the dwarf sauropod babies that it wants. And then 618 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,439 Speaker 1: Michael Michael Haby he compares this to the elephant birds 619 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 1: of Madagascar, which will work, which one extinct roughly a 620 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: thousand years ago. But we're a large flightless bird that 621 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: thrived in that part of the world cut off from 622 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: the rest of Africa. Big Death. Ostrich but there are 623 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: a few other examples worth touching on here. For instance, 624 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: there's uh Tomatosaurus. This was a hadrosaur or a duck 625 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: build dino, another variety I'd love to come back to 626 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 1: and discuss in detail on the show because they're so 627 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: alien and also in some ways a great example of 628 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: kind of peake dinosaur prior to the Late Cretaceous extinction event. 629 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 1: But this particular specimen in in Haunting was smaller than 630 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 1: a modern crocodile, so roughly like five meters long or 631 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 1: so um and and this was and this was one 632 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: that would have seemed almost mountable to a human if 633 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,879 Speaker 1: you were standing next to it, or at least while 634 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: this hadrosaur was on all fours, because other hadrosaurs were 635 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: considerably larger and would have towered over humans, particularly when 636 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,959 Speaker 1: they reared up on their into bipedal form. And here's 637 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 1: another interesting fact about Tomatosaurus. A fossil of the juvenile 638 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: specimen was discovered in twenty six with evidence of a 639 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: benign tumor in its lower jaw. And this is the 640 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: first for a dinosaur fossil and ultimately proved that that 641 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: such tumors are not mere modern biological realities, so of course, 642 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: and then there's a bald Our bond doc okay, and 643 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 1: this is that we we referenced this name earlier in 644 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 1: the Cold Open. But this particular species was named after 645 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 1: the dragon of Romanian legend, and so this would have 646 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: been a therapod hunter in keeping with raptors such as velociraptor. 647 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: And it's one of the Dromo sarid's But it differs 648 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 1: from other Droma Sarid fossils because it had only two 649 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: functional digits on its hand. Most of its relatives would 650 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: have had three for proper grasping, so reduced ability in 651 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: this department. But it also had more digit functionality and 652 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: its large talent feet, and so this is what SEUs 653 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: has to say about this. Thus, each foot of Baldar 654 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: sported a double set of these large claws, which were 655 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: likely used for seizing and disemboweling prey. The robust hind 656 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: limb shows extensive fusion of bones in its proportionately short 657 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: distal portion, with formation of a tv O tarsis and 658 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:06,720 Speaker 1: a tarsa metatarsis. Uh. These unusual features suggest that Baldoor 659 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: was capable of delivering powerful strikes with its feet, and 660 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: Sus contends that these changes were likely due to the 661 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: island effect as well. So just another peculiar example of 662 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: of of a fossil species that was not found elsewhere 663 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 1: but was was warped, was changed and took on a 664 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: special form due to its isolation on this island and 665 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: got the gutting kick. Yeah, well now maybe we I 666 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,359 Speaker 1: think you've changed my mind and my number one time 667 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: travel destination. I think I want to go to Hot Egg. Well, 668 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,279 Speaker 1: I would definitely visit if it were visit Hoteg give 669 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 1: hateg were you know, a special exhibit at a Jurassic 670 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: Park type scenario. But that it brings me back to 671 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: my my past rants about Jurassic Park, like why do 672 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,239 Speaker 1: we keep coming back to the same and in many 673 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 1: cases outdated um dinosaur or in prehistoric forms when we 674 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,800 Speaker 1: could be encountering these creatures like this should be the 675 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 1: next Jurassic Park film. In my opinion is uh, you know, 676 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 1: don't bring back the uh, the the t rex, don't 677 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 1: bring back the velocira raptors. Don't change their color just 678 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: so you can sell a slightly different toy uh to 679 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: the kids. Uh No, still you can still sell plenty 680 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 1: of toys to the kids. But make it. Make it these, 681 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 1: you know, make it pony sized sauropods. Make it hot 682 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 1: sagopter X. I think hot sagopteras would make a terrific 683 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 1: c g I villain. I think that that. Yeah, there's 684 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 1: a lot of potential here. I mean, people would want 685 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: to have that. They'd have reason for bringing back a 686 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 1: pony size sauropod if they could have a petting zoo, 687 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: kids could ride them. Yeah, yeah, that that's more plausible 688 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 1: plot wise. All right, So there you have it. We're 689 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna leave it right there. Um again, that 690 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,720 Speaker 1: that really cool children's dinosaur book. Atlas of Dinosaur Adventures 691 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,799 Speaker 1: by Emily Hawkins and illustrated by Lucy Leatherhead. Uh. It's 692 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 1: definitely imprint deaf only worth picking up. And I think 693 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 1: it's worth picking up even if you don't have any 694 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 1: kids in your house or in your life. If you 695 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 1: love dinosaurs and prehistartic creatures and or you know geology 696 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: and geography, it's it's it's a great just a tabletop 697 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,359 Speaker 1: book if nothing else, But you can also spend lots 698 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: of time reading through it with young ones, uh and 699 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:29,240 Speaker 1: and feeding their need for for dinosaurs and terra saurs, etcetera. Um. Also, obviously, 700 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 1: we we surely have listeners who either reside or are 701 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,879 Speaker 1: from Romania or have visited Romania. And perhaps you've you've 702 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,240 Speaker 1: visited some of these areas. So some of the articles 703 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 1: we're looking at mentioned that you know, there are attempts 704 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: to celebrate paleontology in Romania, various museums that have you know, 705 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 1: the efforts that have been put together. So we would 706 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:56,760 Speaker 1: love to to read your field reports on Romanian paleontology. 707 00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,800 Speaker 1: Uh and uh and and ultimately just you know the 708 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,279 Speaker 1: world that we are discussing in this episode, only you know, 709 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: millions of years later. Absolutely, also send us your barren 710 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,320 Speaker 1: friends nope, chef fan fick. In the meantime, if you 711 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 1: want more episodes of Stuff to Blow your Mind, go 712 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,319 Speaker 1: to Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. And if 713 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 1: you want to support the show, the best thing you 714 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 1: can do is to rate and review wherever you have 715 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 1: the power to do so. But also make sure you 716 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:23,320 Speaker 1: have subscribed. And hey, we have another podcast titled Invention, 717 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,120 Speaker 1: and I think you should give that a shot. You 718 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,319 Speaker 1: should subscribed to that as well. And you might be thinking, oh, 719 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 1: I don't know, Robert and Joe. I really like these 720 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 1: trippier episodes, these weirder episodes that you put together. I 721 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,600 Speaker 1: don't know how trippy and weird technology is. Well. I 722 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 1: just want to read you a quick quote from Terence 723 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 1: McKenna on technology to remind you otherwise. He says, um, 724 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 1: we take in matter that has a low degree of organization, 725 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: we put it through mental filters, and we extrude jewelry, gospels, 726 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,040 Speaker 1: space shuttles. This is what we do. We are like 727 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,879 Speaker 1: coral animals embedded in a technological reef of extruded psy 728 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 1: kick objects. And that's exactly what we talk about every 729 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,680 Speaker 1: week on Invention. Couldn't have put it better. Yeah, So 730 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 1: make sure you check it out. Make sure you have 731 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,800 Speaker 1: subscribed to Invention. Subscribe to Invention anyway. Huge thanks to 732 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 1: our audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson and Maya Cole. If 733 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: you would like to get in touch with us directly 734 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 1: to let us know feedback on this episode or any other, 735 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 1: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to 736 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 1: say hello, you can email us at contact. That's Stuff 737 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your 738 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:40,839 Speaker 1: Mind is a production of iHeart radios how stuff works. 739 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from My heart Radio, visit the iHeart 740 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,880 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 741 00:41:45,920 --> 00:42:03,320 Speaker 1: favorite shows. Later Pass has a found by a battle 742 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 1: par