WEBVTT - Poetic Tattoos & Self Reflection with Robert Ryan 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.279 Kesha and the Creepies is a production of I Heart Radio. 0:00:04.000 --> 0:00:06.200 There are people that I know who who are MA 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:08.680 since who have gone through the initiation process, and I 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:11.560 can see the difference in them as they've gone through 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:14.560 the different steps, you know, because it all it's also 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:16.800 perflection again, you know, it's like what I was talking 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:18.880 about earlier with the bathing of the lingom. It's like 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:22.880 another way of like recognizing the self. And there's there's 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:27.280 an actual death ritual in their initiation, like a symbolic 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.160 death that you must go through to become a Masturmason. 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:49.760 Welcome back to Kesha and the Creepies today. I am 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:53.600 very excited to welcome my next guest. This is Robert Ryan. 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:58.520 He's an amazing artist, tattoo artist and friend. How are you. 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:00.920 I'm doing well, it's great that do you What else 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:05.280 would you like to add to your job description? My resume? 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:10.560 What's your resume? A visual artist that happens to have 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:14.640 a temple for Lord Shiva in his backyard in New Jersey, 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:17.240 which you're sitting in right now. I think right I'm 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:19.240 sitting in the temple right now. You can see there's 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:23.759 this Shiva lingam is right behind me and uh next 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:26.800 to me, and some of the things that we've talked 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:30.600 about before, um, when I was tattooing you and just 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:34.880 friendly conversation, I had to do with some of you know, 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:38.640 like the traveling that I had done spiritually or some 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:42.280 of the pilgrimages that I need, So that that's definitely 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:46.280 an aspect. But primarily I'm a tattoo artist from New Jersey, 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:51.320 but you're so much more than just a tattoo artist 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:55.200 from New Jersey. Being a tattoo artist from New Jersey 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:59.080 is a pretty high It's pretty high in the evolutionary 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:02.000 cheam that you have to go through to become just that. Man, 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:06.200 It's like, it's insane. Well, you're the finest tattoo artist 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:08.679 in New Jersey. How have you been holding up during 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:12.079 this insane time? It's actually been the most productive, most 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:14.480 beneficial time in my life, which I feel kind of 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:17.079 guilty saying. But I don't feel guilty saying it at all. 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:21.040 You know, I'm not The suffering that we're all going 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:25.480 through collectively isn't lost on me, but you know, I'm 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:29.919 trying to use it to temper my own awareness in life. 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:33.640 I have not stopped going and going and going for 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:37.720 since I was twenty one years old, and it just 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.160 was such a crazy experience. Getting used to not being 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:45.040 really really stressed out every day was so weird, and 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:47.200 I'm still adjusting to it. Like waking up and not 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.240 being in a panic feels really strange. Yeah, yeah, I 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:51.880 don't know. I feel the same way as you. Like, 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:54.720 it's not lost on me that this is a horrible 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:56.919 time for a lot of people and there's a lot 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:00.200 of loss and a lot of grief, but being able 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.239 to be with myself for a moment has been beneficial, 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.600 I think. Yeah. I think also the sobering factor of like, 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:09.600 you know, like we're always kind of trying to dodge 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:12.720 the inevitable of death. You know, it's like a tiger 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:15.280 that's like waiting in a bush our entire lives and 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:18.120 we know it's there, but we kind of tiptoe around 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:20.080 it and then like to have it kind of like 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:22.799 just knowing that, like there's a very good chance that 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.400 you're going to be infected with a disease that could 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.480 kill you anytime you leave your house, and to put 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.800 something in a different kind of perspective where the mundane 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:37.280 or banal or like trivial can become very extraordinary, you know. 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:39.880 Or the simple things in life you can find like 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:42.560 a lot more value and things when you're able to 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.400 see it through that kind of filter. For me, I'm 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:48.800 appreciating every little thing so much more. And also, weirdly, 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:51.480 I've had this urge to just get rid of most 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:54.720 of the stuff I've accumulated over the past twenty years, 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:56.400 and I've finally opened a box and being like, oh 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:58.480 my god, I remember that from when I was nineteen 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:03.040 years old. I haven't seen it since now, like selling 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:06.000 my stuff on eBay, because it's bringing all the people 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:08.040 that I would be on tour with, like they have 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.360 a little tiny pieces something that's from my history, and 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:16.000 it's making space for newness. Yeah, it's like spring cleaning 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:18.800 and uh, it's also like an audience on all the 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:21.760 things that we accumulate through life when whenever we get 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:23.400 a chance to do that, I think it's like, it's 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.880 very surprising, you know how much things kind of just 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:31.040 attached themselves to us. Well, I love stuff like I 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:34.839 love like so many pairs of shoes, I have so 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:38.080 many couches, I have a lot of cats. But I'm 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:42.240 keeping the cats like I just my mom put it 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:44.960 in a really funny way. She's like, well, we used 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:48.520 to um hunt and gather. We're just really good gatherers. 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:52.280 And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm like a plus gatherer. Yeah. 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:54.640 We don't really have to hunt too much anymore, you know, 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.240 like the meals are prepared for us, so we can 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:00.520 you know, like everything's accessible and I'm market but we 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.920 still have that urge to gather. Oh, I can gather 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:11.160 like a motherfucker. So for those of you listening, I've 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:14.080 gotten two tattoos from Robert. One is on my foot. 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:18.080 It's a rainbow and clouds in an eyeball, and he 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.240 also did the blue tiger crawling up my ribs and 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:23.599 that was the most painful thing in the entire world. 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:26.599 I love both of the tattoos. You gave me feel 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:33.760 really special. They feel magical, and it's hard to describe 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:38.320 because I didn't realize kind of the gravity of how 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:42.000 spiritual a tattoo can be. For me. It was just 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:43.520 kind of a fun thing I would do. If I 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:45.160 was having on a fun night, I'd get a tattoo. 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:49.120 Is more like party scars or fun memories, and like 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:51.159 getting a stamp on my wrist of like that was 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:53.440 that night that I had so much fun and then 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:57.240 I met you and Brad was telling me all about 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:00.800 Dan Higgs. And there's a whole lineage behind what you 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:04.520 do and the kind of tattoos you do. They're classic, 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.880 but they feel spiritual and they look spiritual. Maybe it's 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:12.760 because I know you, but they feel like their own genre. Obviously, 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:15.120 I'm not a tattoo artist, so I don't know the 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:18.440 terminology perfectly, but I feel like you've kind of created 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:23.120 your own style. Yeah, thank you, thank you for saying that. Um. Yeah, 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.640 but it is part of the lineage of tattoos that 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.440 in America. We'll go back even further, we'll go back 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.560 to tattooing and it's origin, you know, which I think 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:36.840 goes as far back as the oldest remains had had markings, 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.520 had tattoos, you know. So, Um, the Iceman was one 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:44.479 of them. The mummified body that they found, he had 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:49.159 like different markings and those were more to represent maybe 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.040 if he had any kind of ownership of land or 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:55.320 perhaps what he did, like if it had something to 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:58.280 do with agriculture or something like that. But it's still 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:03.000 with symbolism, you know, and uh, I think the intrinsic 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:06.760 desire to mark one's body kind of goes back to 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:11.080 the very beginnings of mankind. And it's not always in tattooing, 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:13.240 you see it, you know, with through like makeup or 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.880 face painting or piercing, or sometimes they'll put things underneath 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.240 their skin, you know in certain tribes, or you know, 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:21.440 like a you know, at a disk in the nose 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:25.520 or things like that, and it's just like a decoration 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.720 of the temple, you know, of this temple being the body. 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:33.600 And so I think there were some American tattoos that 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:35.720 were able to kind of tap into that same kind 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:39.440 of energy without it becoming like to I don't know, 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:41.880 like they weren't trying to be these like modern primitive 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.160 kind of tattoos where that kind of came a little 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:46.400 bit later, but they were still tapping into that like 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.200 kind of primal raw energy. And the thing that was 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:51.640 like kind of struck me about them and how I 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.040 kind of like fell in love with this lineage and 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:58.400 then was eventually like kind of initiated into it. Where 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:01.960 these guys that weren't they weren't military tattooers, they weren't 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:05.800 like sailors, and they weren't like greasers or hot rod guys, 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.360 and they weren't like rock and roll guys. You know, 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:10.400 they were just like these kind of like almost beat 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:14.320 poet kind of philosophical people that started tattooing, you know, 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:18.480 so I call them like the poetic tattoos. So guys 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.280 like Tom de Vito and Dan Tiggs and Nick Boubash 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:25.880 and stuff like that, philosophical kind of tattoo artists or 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.120 poetic where you know, there's different kind of poetic tattooing 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.400 and other kind of looks too, But I feel like 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:34.960 it's almost like that I kind of associated with the beats, 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:37.480 and then maybe you know, before the beats, the dada, 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.320 you know, it's using the symbols, but then also obstracting them. 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.640 So there's some abstractions and involved as well. And it's 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:47.560 just like it's basically just not coming from these these 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:50.679 genres that have always been in tattooing, like the sailors 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.960 and the greasers and the hot rod kind of people, 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:57.680 or you know, there's all different kinds of stuff. Um, 0:08:57.760 --> 0:08:59.960 but yeah, there's people that were maybe looking for tattoo 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:02.880 is maybe the kind of more focus on themselves rather 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:06.959 than align themselves with a certain kind of occupation or 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:11.959 you know, patriotism or something like that, right, because sometimes 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:14.720 I would see The first time I got a tattoo, 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.920 by the way, was when I was in Cuba and 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.320 I was walking around. My brother was like, you can't 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:23.120 go to Cuba, and I was like, well, now I 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:25.080 have to go to Cuba. So I went to Cuba 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:29.199 through Mexico, ended up walking around. I was supposed to 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:32.000 be studying Spanish. I was not studying. I was studying 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:34.360 how to run around and get sucked up and do 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.360 crazy ship That's what I was there studying. And this 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:39.720 guy was trying to sell a couch and I was like, 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.560 I can't. I don't need a couch, but do you 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:44.280 have anything else cool? And he was like, do you 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:46.360 want a tattoo? And I was like sure. So that's 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:50.280 what my first tattoo was. I went up into his apartment. 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:53.280 He boiled the needle in a pot. He was holding 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:56.920 a baby tattooing at the same time, and that's my 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:00.839 first tattoo. And ever since then I was like, oh, 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:03.280 this is like really special. It also helps jog my 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:06.680 memory on my life more so, than anything else, Like 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:08.440 more so than looking at pictures. I can look at 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:10.079 a tattoo and be like, oh, that was that time. 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:13.960 So it's almost like my timeline of my life is 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:17.440 on my body. The other amazing mild markers for where 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.080 you've been and where you're going, you know, and like 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:22.440 and you know, like, I think they're really good to 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:27.360 reflect onto. Yeah, some of the mine suck. I was 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:30.440 gonna say mine too. And I never trust anyone that 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:35.000 doesn't have a bad tattoo because true part of the evolution, 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:38.000 and the people that only have good tattoos usually are 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:41.440 kind of like more coming out of as the fashionable aspect, 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:43.480 which I don't being wrong with, but they might not 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:48.600 be trusted. There there's psychos. I can think of one person. 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:51.960 You're totally right. He's a complete psycho, but he only 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:54.800 has perfect tattoos. I would have to agree with you. 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:59.439 All his suits are probably folded perfectly. Cloud and the 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:06.920 like American psych go the best business card. It's so true. Well, 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:12.680 then I'm really trustworthy according to that. If you're going 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:14.800 by that, then I'm like the most trustworthy because I 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:18.160 have so many like shitty tattoos. Because I met actual 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.160 good tattoo artists only in the past couple of years 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:23.560 of my life. Before that, it was just like a 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:26.440 ship show. Can we go back to your first tattoo 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:33.160 for because like that experience sounds incredible, you know. For one, 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:36.760 it's the couches again following you, Like these couches are 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:40.800 like magnets to you. And then the guy was boiling 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:44.280 the tattoo needle and like that was the second you know, 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:46.199 offering to you, like I can give you a couch. 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:47.760 You don't want the couch, I could do a tattoo 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:51.040 for you and a child. It's like and not your 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:55.480 conventional tattoo first tattoo experience, which I loved, you know, 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.040 I think it's it's it's magic. You know, it was magic. 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:06.480 It was super magical. And I did Cuba. I used 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:09.760 to be so cool. I got an anchor that one 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.360 I think holds up, but some of the other ones 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:15.280 on my feet, like one on the same foot that 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.080 you tattooed. That's just like mush. It turned to mush, 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:21.440 like immediately, I'm just gonna let it live. What else 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:23.760 can you do? You can go over it, I guess, yeah, 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:28.079 you know, or just move on. Just your body it's true. 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.800 Who cares, It's just going to disintegrate and turned into 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.760 probably like a mushroom at some point. So whatever. If 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:38.760 we're lucky, yeah, if we're lucky because you're in your temple, 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:43.800 do you mind talking about you said Shiva's behind you? Yeah? Yeah. 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:47.240 The Shiva Lingham is the main altar in the temple 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:51.640 that we worship here, and that's the un manifested version 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:58.640 of Lord Shiva, the god Shiva. And loose interpretation, or 0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:03.160 it's actually pretty precise interpretation in English, is the consciousness 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:07.000 of infinite goodness. So the sea Lingom for people that 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.920 are listening, I'll just describe it more more than look 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:13.239 at it. It's the shape of an egg, and it's 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:17.959 it contains all the aspects of universal consciousness within it, 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.040 you know. It's like the egg. It holds any kind 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:25.199 of potentiality, any kind of awareness can be accessed through 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:29.440 the consciousness of infinite goodness. And at its face is 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:33.160 what's called the yoni. So it's a male female single 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:37.200 you know. So the yoni is the base and the 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:40.240 male which have kind of a fallus shape. A lot 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:42.480 of people get really attached to that idea. It's not 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:45.600 it's just one of the it's you know, because it's 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:48.880 symbolizing all consciousness. It has a male and female, but 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:53.760 also has nature and consciousness. It also has cosmic and 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:57.199 you know, the terror form any of the dualities. You know, 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:02.040 terror form the earth Earth, so you know it's it's 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:05.520 of the earth, but it's also of the of the cosmos. 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:08.240 It's you know, of the water, and it's also you know, 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.040 of the dry land. It's it's of the day and 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.120 of the night. It's of the males, of the female, 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:16.439 it's of you know, it unites all those, all those 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.960 kind of concepts because it's none It represents non dual bliss. 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:25.200 So it's when the male and the female aspects are united, 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:29.960 then you have the consciousness of infinite goodness. That's beautiful. 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:33.160 Is it kind of like a yin and yang kind 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.480 of thing? Absolutely? Yeah, No, it's absolutely the same thing 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:40.080 as the saying it's a stone too. I should mention 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:44.040 it's understood this one of the oldest things that have 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.040 been worshiped on the planet. You know. Someone just kind 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:50.920 of started reflecting on the idea that that the stone 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:54.960 was consciousness, you know, and from there kind of developed 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:59.560 further and that is part of like your religion or 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.320 your spirit actuality, or just your consciousness. Would you call 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:06.800 yourself religious or spiritual? Yeah, any of those things apply. Um, Honestly, 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:11.720 the worship of the Lingham is self inquiry. The worship 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:15.560 is actually consists of bathing Millingham in different kinds of 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:20.680 space and offering flowers to it. And each stage of 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:26.240 the worship is a representative aspect of your own spiritual path. 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:28.840 And as you go through this process, you start to 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.880 reflect on your own life in the worship of the stone, 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:34.400 so you start to see yourself. You see the consciousness 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:38.240 within yourself as the consciousness and the stone. I don't 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.480 think my consciousness is there yet. I don't think my 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:45.560 consciousness understands. I want to understand, but I don't think. So, 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.960 you see yourself in the reflection of a piece of 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:52.480 the earth. You're bathing your own self. And I'm saying self, 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.440 not as the body as you you know, but your 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.880 own self with the capitalists, you know, your true self, 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.360 your your your soul. It's representative of bathing your soul 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.200 as your bathing the stone. And you bathe the stone 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:08.720 every day, right, Yeah, Because when we were there, we 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.000 were talking about it. I remember that stuck out to 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:12.800 me that it's something you take such good care of 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:16.840 and you treat with such respect. It's not an animal 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.920 or a baby, it's a stone, but just the level 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:23.120 of respect and time can you developed love for it? 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:28.640 And you're as you're doing that, you're training yourself should 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:31.760 come out of the autopilot, come out of the heady 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:36.080 kind of like judgment of the self and questioning of 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.480 the self and the data yourself, and you you start 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:41.920 to love yourself as you love the stone. You know, 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.080 if you're seeing yourself in it, you're bathing yourself, You're 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.240 seeing the reflection of your spiritual pursuit in the stone. 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.480 It's a symbol, you know. I feel like for me 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:52.640 at least, that's one of the hardest parts of being 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:56.080 a person as self love. Like the way I speak 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.320 to myself. I would never talk to somebody else as 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:03.000 mean and link just impatiently as I talked to myself. 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:04.840 It's one of the things I try to work on 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.120 in therapy. But just like having like compassion for yourself 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:09.720 the way you would have it for a child or 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.840 an animal or anybody else. Yeah, So so in the 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:18.200 philosophy you know, the same philosophy, which is non dual Shudism, 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:22.080 is when I'm following this lineage, it explains those feelings 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.200 that you're having for yourself when you're hard or yourself 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:27.680 and when you're doubting yourself, and all those things they 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:32.520 assign like that their demons, personal demons, you know, and 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:35.159 each one of them have names, and one, you know, 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:38.639 there's a name for self conceit and there's one for 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.760 self deprecation as well, you know, and those are two 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.760 like really heavy aspects of a lot of that we 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:49.159 all do to ourselves, you know. Either we can be 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:52.239 conceded and puffed up and arrogant, or we can be 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:56.520 self deprecating, which is also very egoic. So all these 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.719 things happened through the mind. So when when we're when 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:03.720 I'm doing this bathing of the stone, is trying to 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.440 get out of the mind and start opening up the heart. 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:08.880 I think you said this. I might be quoting you 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:13.280 at you, but so excuse me. If I'm quoted, are 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:16.920 you adding me? No, there's somebody said it, and it 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.919 may have been you, I'm not even sure. But the 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:23.680 true piece and the goal is to come directly from 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.040 the heart. I hope I said it because it sounds good, 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:31.160 but I don't think. But but yeah, it is, it's 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.760 and it's a heart opening thing. And these things like 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:37.520 it's crazy what I'm talking about. I'm talking about bathing 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.560 a stone every day. It sounds insane. These are things 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:42.600 that aren't to be understood through the mind, because the 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.160 mind is where all those complications come from. You get 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:48.240 past the mind and you start to develop the consciousness 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:50.960 and then the true self, you know, and then you 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:54.320 start to see that in everything, not just yourself. You 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:56.879 see it in your lover, you see it in your family, 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:58.879 you see it in your coworkers, you see it and 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:03.159 every instantaneous interaction that you have in the world. You 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:06.879 start to see that consciousness and everything. And definitely I 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:10.200 said earlier that the normal and the kind of mundane 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:16.480 become extraordinary, you know, extraordinary, everything becomes charged with this love, 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:19.880 you know. So it's you're building the love up through 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:24.120 this discipline of pouring water and milk in flowers over 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:27.040 the stone. I think that's so beautiful. And even just 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:31.280 having a conversation with you, I'm not in the same 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:33.679 place as you, but I feel how present you are 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:37.440 being and how present I'm being, and for anyone who's listening, 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:41.879 it's just like being here now, is this is it? 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:44.560 Like this is the gift, this is life, and just 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:49.160 taking a second to appreciate it. I guess, so thank 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:52.560 you for taking the time to be here. And I 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:54.680 just have to I have to keep reminding myself during 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:57.720 this quarantine that like this is this is it. I'm 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:02.480 not running towards or from anything, Like I'm just right 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:06.359 here talking to somebody that I think is badass and 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.320 I respect a lot, and I just I don't know, 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:10.680 is that to stop in be present for a second, 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:15.120 because anything else is total annihilation, you know what I mean. 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:19.000 Like the past is annihilated as soon as it becomes 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:22.919 the past, and the future is annihilated because it hasn't 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:26.160 happened yet, you know, it's into That's the only place 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:29.640 we really can be. Here's the only place we've functioned properly, 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.000 because if we dwell in the past or in the future, 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:36.800 it's side tracks the whole mission, you know, but sidetracks 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:39.080 the happiness. At least for me. I can always find 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:42.480 something I did that was stupid, and I can always 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:44.800 be nervous about something I'm going to do. So to 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:48.480 be present is almost this year has been what I'm 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:50.160 trying to learn how to be is just be more 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:52.080 present because we don't know what's going to happen in 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:55.760 the future, and nobody really foresaw this coming. So being 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.640 present this year and coming from the heart, those are 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:01.760 the two lessons I on and self love. So I 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:06.760 guess there's three. Yeah, and then they're not mutually exclusive. 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:10.600 All those things, each one kind of relies on the other. Yeah, 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:14.000 they all go nicely together. It's like a triangle. So 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:16.800 you know, if you have all three of them balanced nicely, 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:19.760 then then you will, like a wild man once said, 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:28.040 the ultimate goal is peace in the heart. Yeah that 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:31.200 was your quote maybe or maybe I don't even know, 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:34.680 Maybe I dreamed it. Maybe we that's our quote. We 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:39.760 made it. Yeah, some wise people said sorry for wherever 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:43.639 we please, your eze whoever, which may have been one 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:48.000 of us. Um. So now that I've done just being 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:50.080 excited and telling everybody how excited I have to talk 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:51.920 to you. And you're just one of the more interesting 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:55.240 human beings I know, and super open minded in a 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:58.919 career that I, at least growing up, I thought was 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:04.879 only of hardcore biker bitches, and like your whole attitude 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:08.160 towards it is very different and it's refreshing because we 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:12.600 can get tattoos and like talk spirituality and it's not 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:15.399 odd at all. So it was I opening to me 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:17.800 when we met. It's just a whole different experience. It's 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:19.920 really cool. Thank you. I take that as a huge 0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:22.280 compliment because you know a lot of people and you 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:25.440 have a lot of experiences, so that that means go 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:28.679 out to me, and yeah, I came up through that 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:31.879 all those modalities and tattooing, Like I worked for a 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:35.400 pretty heavy duty biker and the magic was still always there, 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:39.080 even with those weird kind of like interfaces that we 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:41.800 would have to go through and like the posturing and 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:44.480 all the weird ship it's still underneath it. All the 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:48.399 tattoos were always like just kind of coming through, you know. 0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:52.359 And we're talking before just how like party tattoos or 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:54.960 just like I worked in a tourist town, you know, 0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:56.919