1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thanks so much for tuning in. 3 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: Peak Behind the curtain, it is officially summer in Atlanta. 4 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: The humidity and the heat combined to drape the city 5 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: in soup. It feels like walking through soup. So I 6 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: am very, very glad to be here inside our air 7 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: conditioned studio. My name is bet, my name is not. 8 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: The shipping container is icy cool today, and outside it 9 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: is sort of there's this miasma, this sort of funk, 10 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: this patina of awful hot, sweaty grossness that does kind 11 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: of enveloped the city. And it happened overnight, didn't it. 12 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: It just happened overnight. Yeah, it permeated, It permeated this 13 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:10,639 Speaker 1: fair metropolis of ours. I always forget about how dire 14 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: this situation becomes when we hit summer in Atlanta, And 15 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: you know, this may mean that we're in here recording 16 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: uh more episodes. We do want to start the show 17 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: with a big shout out to our guest super producer 18 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: Ramsey Ram Jams Young, So everybody give him a fine hello. 19 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: Do we get does he get a sound a sound effect? Yeah? 20 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: That's kind of good. Yeah, it was very good. That's good. 21 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 1: And of course this does not mean that we will 22 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: ever forget our wonderful are our third amigo, right, uh, 23 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: super producer Casey Pegram gone but not forgotten, gone, I say, 24 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: but gone where ben Uh like that we were talking 25 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: about this. So I have a theory. Every year or so, 26 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: Casey disappears, and in France, someone else reappears, a very 27 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: different person who happens to look a little bit like 28 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: our dear friend Casey Pegrhum. Uh. This guy, we imagine, 29 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: is a member of the criminal underbelly of Paris uh, 30 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: known only by the name bush Yeah. And he dawns 31 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: a completely different get up in the form of a 32 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: very slick looking leather jacket, a single dangly cross earring 33 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: on his left on his left ear, and sometimes he 34 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: wears fingerless gloves and rides around one of those cool 35 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: little mod motorbikes in the pictures. Yet, and uh, we 36 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: strongly suspect that he may have one or more secret families. 37 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: It's true. None of this. We can neither confirm nor 38 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: deny any of this. We are wildly speculated. It's all true. 39 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: They'll put the pieces together people. All Right, we're gonna 40 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: have to let a Casey have his day in court 41 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: here and defend himself. But you know, Casey's not here. 42 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: We're joining with Ramsey helping us pick up the slack here. 43 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: Casey's doing his double life. But that's not the only 44 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: person that we have on this show today, is it? 45 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: That's asolutely true? This is a special episode that I 46 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: know we were both very excited about. We have in 47 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: our network a brand new podcast that we're we're all 48 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: huge fans of, sincerely huge fans of, and it happens 49 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: to be created by one of our close friends who 50 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: you may have heard mentioned on our show or other 51 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: shows before. Folks, Let's give it up for Alex Williams, 52 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: the brains behind the podcast we call Aphemeral because that's 53 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: the name of the podcast. Hi, Alex makes us call 54 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: it that just by virtue of having titled in and 55 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: being a very good title and a very fine podcast. 56 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: Thank you for being here. What a flattering introducts. I'm 57 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: I'm I'm very happy to be here. Here's the thing. 58 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: We've been working with you for quite some time now. 59 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: We've kind of seen you grow and develop and become 60 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: more and more of a badass in with the pros 61 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: referred to as the podcast space and making wild gesticulating 62 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: quote fingers when I say that you really have to 63 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: but here's the thing. You really took it another level 64 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: in terms of making not only a history podcast, but 65 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: something that I I referred to and I describe it 66 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: to friends as something akin to like poetry meets sound, 67 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 1: collage meets some music, concrete meets history, And I think 68 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: it's just a really beautiful piece of work. And I'm 69 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: just beyond stoke that it's on our network and that 70 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: you're the guy behind him. So we'd like to ask you. 71 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: That was such a good pitch. I don't know if 72 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: I could pull that up, but that was great. It's good. Well, 73 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: now it is your turn, so we'd like to ask 74 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: you some questions about if them, about your your inspiration 75 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: behind it. But first, yeah, with with that excellent description 76 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: that Nol just just decided, what, how would you describe it? 77 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: How do you describe it? When when someone's like, hey, 78 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: what's this thing you're working on? I start stammering and sweating, 79 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: and I try to make it as concise as possible. 80 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: I was thinking of a quick Pitch and Bed the 81 00:04:54,320 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: other night, it's uh, something like a show about fleeting 82 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: moments and the things they leave behind, because that's what 83 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: is right is is sort of a remnant of a 84 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: thing that no longer is around, I guess kind of 85 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: or the idea of things being ephemeral means that they're 86 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: fleeting or that they're here today gone tomorrow, but they 87 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: do leave behind some kind of residue if you know 88 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: where to look. Right. Yeah, So the word itself is 89 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: kind of tricky. In the textbook, ephemera might just mean paper, right, broadsides, tickets, 90 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: pamphlets for museums, basically anything printed, hand printed, you know, 91 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: printing press, computer printed that wasn't meant to be saved. 92 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: But then it gets into the issue of like how 93 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: do you determine whether something was meant to be saved 94 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: or not, right, Like, for instance, a train schedule from 95 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: the early nineteen hundreds. Now, the ones that are around 96 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: are considered things to be things that have historical value, right, 97 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: But when they were print did they were thought to 98 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: have a definitive and very short lifespan or span of utility. 99 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: One of the really classic examples is the stamp the 100 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:11,559 Speaker 1: episode I'm working on that will come out on Monday. 101 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: Is about this, Well Monday, that might that might not 102 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: be the monday it will come out on. It will 103 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: come out on a Monday. I don't know when this 104 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: will come out. But the stamp is a really classic example. Right. 105 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 1: So you've written a letter to your friend Noel, and 106 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: you've stamped, and you've put in the in the mailbox 107 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: and he gets it and he rips it open and 108 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: reads the letter and he's, you know, overwrought with emotion. 109 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: Whatever he throws out or hopefully recycles the and that's it. 110 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: But but Noel happens to have a great stamp collection, 111 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: and I've sent him, you know, uh, inverted Jenny stamp 112 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: from the nineteen thirties, and so he is overwrought with emotion, 113 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: not because of my great prose, but because this is 114 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: a great addition to his stamp collection, because he is 115 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: a philetist or philist is how it how it's pronounced 116 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: pH I l A t I s t. One who 117 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: likes stand what's the root word of Filettist could also 118 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: be one who filets, you know, That's what I would think, 119 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: because that's how the British pronounced filet they pronounced it, 120 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: fill it. They do a hard tea sound at the 121 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,239 Speaker 1: end of it. I always find that very interesting because 122 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: sometimes the Brits seemed like they really own the word, 123 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: and sometimes they just feel like they're mispronouncing it just 124 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: to be cute. Cute, sort of like aluminium, Like, that's 125 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,679 Speaker 1: not the word, Brits. Come on, it's aluminium. You're adding 126 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: syllables there that don't belong the American English. To be fair, 127 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: we can't really criticize the people who are doing it first. 128 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: That's also fair. Ben. If they want to add an 129 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: extra p on shop, then that's kind of their call. 130 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: Uh yeah. To answer that question about etymology, it's interesting 131 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: because it comes from French and Greek, so uh telia 132 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: means exemption from payment. The French philo means loving, so 133 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: it's loving exemption from payment, which is right now. But 134 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: it's it makes sense, but done. I asked me to 135 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: explain it. Well, we can learn more about this. What 136 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: what did you what are you exploring on this episode 137 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: concerning stamps? Oh, well it's not. It's all over it 138 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: so it's much worth than uh you know. One of 139 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: the things that we're doing is actually taking the word 140 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: apart in this in this episode, So if emera comes 141 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: from the root where it's epi meaning honor of, like epicurious, 142 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: epidermis uh and camera meaning day, it's like a Latin 143 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: Greek combination word. And so it starts being used by 144 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: people in uh, you know the age of Enlightenment, I guess, uh, 145 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: to describe things that only last for a day, the mayfly, 146 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: you know, certain species of plants that flower and wither 147 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: in a day. Uh. And then you know it becomes 148 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: with time more broadly used to describe things that don't 149 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 1: last a long time, you know, or fleeting. And that's 150 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: when we start getting into trouble because like in a 151 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 1: you know, the metrics of like a human life, maybe 152 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: like a hundred years at best, something that doesn't last 153 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: for long means something different than like geologically uh, like 154 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: melting polar ice caps or ephemeral At this point, or 155 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: was it who was that philosopher said all is ephemra? 156 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: How have I never heard that? I've never heard of that. 157 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: Maybe it's maybe it's a philosopher Marcus Aurelius. Okay, there 158 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: we go. Ephemeral, both what remembers and what is remembered, 159 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: there we go. How have I never used that quote 160 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: for something? Your tagline hang out on the show were often, Man, 161 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 1: I'm full of vaguely remembered one liners from ancient philosophers. 162 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: So I mean, I guess ephemeral. Ephemeral, by its nature 163 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: is sometimes a little hard to describe, as is the show. 164 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: It's not something that you can just encapsulate in a 165 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,959 Speaker 1: quick elevator pitch. So I put forth that we listened 166 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: to a little bit of a clip that can then 167 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: set up a discussion. What do you say, Oh, sure, 168 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: let's do the call your brothers, Yes, sir. As a 169 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: kid Franz Lids, his father would tell him scary stories 170 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 1: before bed. Only these stories were true. My father, or 171 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: the scientist, engineer, inventor, who had never really had much 172 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: use for fairy tales. He preferred real life grotesqueries to fiction, 173 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: and so at that time I would listen rapidly to 174 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: his urban horror stories. The most macabre tale was one 175 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: of the Callier brothers, the hermit hoarders of Harlem, in 176 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:43,239 Speaker 1: their four story brownstone at the corner of Fifth Avenue, 177 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: and the brothers sealed themselves up through the Great depression, 178 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,839 Speaker 1: both world wars and as Harlem shifted from a rich 179 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: white suburb to a poor black slum. It was there 180 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: in that brownstone that they amassed one of the world's 181 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: legendary collections of urban un and in the end, that 182 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: colored brothers had tons of junk stored in their brown stone. 183 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: And so I get this image of this horror house. 184 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: Things like pattered toys, Christmas trees, chandeliers, rusted bicycles, broken 185 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: baby carriages for moldering hope chests, fourteen pianos who added 186 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 1: babies and formaldehi and newspapers, hundreds of thousands of newspapers. 187 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: It was a collection so extraordinary that their accomplishment, such 188 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: as it was, confirms like a New yorkers worse nightmare, 189 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: that they're crumpled people living in the crumpled rooms, with 190 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: their crumpled possessions, the crowded chaos of the city refracted 191 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: in their homes. It's not that New Yorkers bored more 192 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: than other people, so they have less room to hold in. 193 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: So they call your brothers O L L y e 194 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: er were just as they're described in that clip right there, 195 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:10,079 Speaker 1: what we would call compulsive hoarders. Yeah, I don't know 196 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: the history of the term hoarder, if if we're applying 197 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: a modern term and achronistically, but yes, Cords, I suppose 198 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 1: maybe it's like an older term, but hoarders certainly, could 199 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit more about these brothers. 200 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: So there's really one book on them, and it's it's 201 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: a by a fantastic, exquisite writer named Franz Lids who 202 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: grew up hearing you hear his voice in the clip. 203 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: He grew up hearing these stories from his father as 204 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: as bedtime stories, as scary stories that he wouldn't tell. 205 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: He would tell Franz these stories, but not not Franz's sister. 206 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: For whatever reason, I thought that was interesting, and so 207 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: when Franz grew up, he decided to learn everything that 208 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: he could because no one had really written anything, you know. Besides, 209 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: they were sort of part of the urban legends of 210 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: Harlem and of New York to the point where it 211 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: was almost a cautionary tale. Like even the the New 212 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: York Fire Department would I believe. They had a term 213 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: that they used called Collier's mansion syndrome that referred to 214 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: extreme instances of extreme clutter in apartments that were fire hazards. 215 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: So it almost became, as the name of the book implies, 216 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: called ghost de men. These these guys almost cast kind 217 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: of a specter over this particular region to the point 218 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: where they were so embedded in the cultural and oral 219 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: tradition storytelling like ghost stories, that became this kind of 220 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: cautionary tale almost right. Yeah, there's also a there's also 221 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: a racial element to that too. The two brothers, Langley 222 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: and Homer moved with their parents from Manhattan to the 223 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: budding community of Harlem in the eight nineties sort of 224 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: an economic boom time, and Harlem is this new, rich, 225 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: fancy suburb for people that like want to get out 226 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: of dirty New York, you know, get out to racation. Basically, well, 227 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: it actually, uh, the economy crashes and there's there's a 228 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: big bust and all of these rich families like move 229 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: out and there's all these empty space in Harlem. And 230 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: then there was overtly racist practices taken on by the 231 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: landowners and Harlots literally things that were called like Negro surcharges, 232 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: and they would take these big, beautiful um brownstone mansions. 233 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: Like the Color Brothers lives in a four story brownstone 234 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: mansion and divide them up into you know, six seven, 235 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: eight nine rooms, fill them up, over charge African Americans 236 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: to live there. But so anyways, the Collier brothers were 237 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: some of the few white residents at that point too. 238 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: So legend is that neighborhood kids would chuck rocks at 239 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: their windows and stuff and call them ghosting men, both 240 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: referring to like they're sort of creepy hermit never come 241 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: out of the house. Is there's someone dead in there? 242 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: Sadly vibe and also you know, perhaps a racial connotation. 243 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: It's interesting too because the there's a parallel story this 244 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: reminds me of, which is the Masal's film Great Gardens, 245 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: where it's you know, this mother and daughter that live 246 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: in a very they come from affluence. They live in 247 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: this very similarly decrepit kind of mansion out in you know, 248 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: the burbs, away from New York City, and they're completely 249 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: kind of delusional and sort of exist in this strange 250 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: bubble together. And that's sort of what ended up happening 251 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: with the Collier brothers where they got to a point 252 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: I believe one of the homer I believe was like 253 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: a child prodigy and like ended up getting some advanced 254 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: degrees and did really well for himself for a time, 255 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: and then they ended up just kind of withdrawing completely 256 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: from society. And that's when the extreme hoarding that we're 257 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: talking about started to begin. And that's also where the 258 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: legend stuff kind of comes in. Right. They really both 259 00:15:55,520 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: were prodigies, had advanced degrees from Colombia and like admiralty 260 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: law and like what even is that first? Is it 261 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: like maritime stuff? I'm similar, yes, and uh I believe 262 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: also one of them was quite a talented pianist. Is 263 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: that Langley played at Carnegie Hall and was followed by 264 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: the the famous pianist at the time, Paderewski. But Paderewski 265 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: quote got better notices than hey, so he gave up 266 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: the piano. So, you know, it can always be discouraging 267 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: to work that grind of the music industry, regardless of 268 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: the era in which you live. Let's let's talk a 269 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: little bit about what, uh, what this timeline of degradation 270 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: looks like. Because while they were infamous in their neighborhood, 271 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: in their community, especially as things started to get worse 272 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: and worse for them mentally, and uh, you know, Homer 273 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: got a stroke, Uh, they they started becoming more and 274 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: more reclusive. Right. They didn't reach national attention until nineteen 275 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,959 Speaker 1: thirty eight, when The New York Times reported a false 276 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: story about them and said that they had turned down 277 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 1: an offer of a hundred and twenty five grand for 278 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:16,239 Speaker 1: their house. Yeah, there's a lot of strange sort of 279 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 1: tabloid Uh A New York had eleven newspapers in those days. 280 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: There was lots of lots of things that sort of 281 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:24,880 Speaker 1: bounce around in an echo chamber, I suppose. So there's 282 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: a lot of strange leads that you can follow with 283 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 1: the Collier brothers that you never really get an answer too. 284 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: I should say that Homer quits his job, Langley stops 285 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 1: playing the piano. Their father has moved back to Manhattan. 286 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: At some point, they stay in the house with their 287 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,479 Speaker 1: mother and really sort of start shuddering in in there, 288 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:42,479 Speaker 1: you know, in their sort of mid twenties. And then 289 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: their mother passes away. She passes away and is buried 290 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: in some sort of bizarre um kind of cult like ceremony, 291 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: just whisked out of a window one night and taken 292 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: to a sanitary that's very far away on foot. And uh, 293 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: it's never in the paper or anything. There's no obituary. 294 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: She's just she's just gone one day, and they wanted 295 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: to keep it private. I suppose after that they more 296 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: or less had no contact with the outside world. I 297 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: believe Homer lost his eyesight, became essentially legally blind, and 298 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: he I'm gonna illustrate it for you here, Uh had 299 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: rheumatism and was doubled up like this with his knees 300 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,880 Speaker 1: below his chin. So for the description, just since we're 301 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: an audio show, Alex has assumed a somewhat fetal x 302 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: position with both legs folded up against his chest and 303 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: his arms folded around holding his legs. Oh, I mean 304 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: this part, that's all you know. The arms is just me. 305 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: That's that's my thing. But so poor the poor guy. 306 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 1: And in his thirties this happened. I believe lost his eyesight. 307 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: Langley became his brother's keeper, and I mean, I really 308 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 1: do think they were. They loved each other and were 309 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: very dutiful to each other. H Langley devise this scheme 310 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 1: of feeding his brother a hundred oranges a day in 311 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: orders who regained his eyesight. That's one of the poll 312 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: quotes we have left of Langley Callier and U he 313 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: saved him newspapers, hundreds of thousands of newspapers when he 314 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: could read again, when he could read again, which is 315 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: heartbreaking and sweet. These newspapers obviously there yellowing, rotting there. 316 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: You know, it's a four story, humongous mansion. Langley made 317 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: them into arches and tunnels and made an inner framework 318 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: for their mansion out of newspapers and all kinds of 319 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: other to try this. I mean, there's really no I 320 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: have incredibly long lists of this stuff that I've I've 321 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: pulled from different stories. Oh yeah, let's see baby carriages, 322 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:54,120 Speaker 1: rusted bikes because because apparently Langley was so Homer never 323 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: sought medical help for his rheumatism. Is that is that correct? Well, 324 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: it's hard to say. It's hard to be slewed about anything. 325 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like I said, we have the 326 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 1: one book anything there. There's there's things that we just 327 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: will never know we have for primary source because it 328 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: sounds like a lot of the headlines of the time, 329 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,199 Speaker 1: the contemporary papers you mentioned, we're just reporting stuff that 330 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: would sell papers. Uh, there was we don actually don't 331 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: talk about this. In an episode, there's one reporter, Helen 332 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: Warden is her name, Langley sort of took a liking 333 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: to her. She was waiting outside of his apartment or 334 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: outside of the brown stone. One day around midnight he 335 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: came out to make his nightly rounds. He would walk 336 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: around the city and just drag a cardboard box with 337 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: a string behind him and fill it up with just 338 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: whatever stuff he came across, all kinds of things. Uh. 339 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,360 Speaker 1: She met him out there one one night at the 340 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: at the outside the brown stone, and he just sort 341 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 1: of started unloading information on her. Uh. She made mention 342 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,120 Speaker 1: of maybe visiting inside the house one day, and he's 343 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: and that's when he stopped and took off off. Yeah, 344 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,640 Speaker 1: and this is this is interesting because around this maybe 345 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: around this is after the time when h. Langley began 346 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: not going out until midnight, right and then returning home 347 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: with junk. Uh So, one of the things that people 348 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,959 Speaker 1: familiar with this story probably always mentioned. It's certainly thing 349 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: that I bet producers would mention when they're talking about 350 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: fictional adaptations will be the booby traps. Where the booby 351 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: traps real? That's a question people, They were very real. 352 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: That's the big kicker. I mean talking about this labyrinthine 353 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 1: infrastructure of garbage essentially, right. I mean it was like 354 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: walled up kind of every window, every door full, and 355 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: they rigged it so that things would literally if they 356 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: were intruders or dare we say, some sort of like 357 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: tomb Rader type situation, people would get got They just 358 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: they really wanted to be left alone. I mean, there's 359 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: certainly is some some paranoia and some fear built into 360 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: that collection collecting habit. I heard that the booby traps 361 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 1: were not a not a thing that they had just 362 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: come up with out of the blue. I heard it 363 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: was a reaction to a number of attempted burglaries on 364 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: the house when people began to think that they were 365 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 1: hoarding not only junk but also a financial fortune. So 366 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: maybe there was some logic behind it. They were from 367 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: a well to do family at some point they reportedly 368 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: owned a large section of waterfront in New York. Actually 369 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: their parents were like cousins and uh oh that well 370 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: to do yeah, came over on the speedwell from England. Yes, 371 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 1: So I don't know if anyone ever tried to actually 372 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: burgle their house, but there's certainly you know, all their 373 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: utilities got cut off one after the other, so people 374 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 1: from the city would try to get in their house. 375 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: Police officers absolutely, and uh, you know Langley would occasionally 376 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: just sort of reach his head out the window and 377 00:22:55,560 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: scream go away, or they would just say nothing to them. Uh. 378 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: Sort of brings you right to this fateful day. Oh 379 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: are you talking about in March one when police received 380 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: an anonymous tip. That is the very uh, that's very 381 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: damn talking about. You know, No, you're in this episode, 382 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: in the recreation of this that we do. No, that's right. 383 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: What did I do? I don't. It's been so long. 384 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 1: You've been working on this for such a long time. 385 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: You've been doing recreations. I have absolutely you will. Uh 386 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 1: you and Chuck are you know? Maybe well, we'll leave 387 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 1: it to the listeners. But this your voice and our 388 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: our friend and colleague Chuck Bryant are intertwined in this. 389 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: That's awesome. This is the one where the cops like 390 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 1: yelling up at the window. I do remember this now, OK, 391 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: no spoilers there, but yeah, definitely, uh there. That's the 392 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 1: kind of stuff you can expect in this show. It's 393 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 1: not only you know, it's not like this whereas me 394 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 1: and Ben Gabbin about history. It's a real experiential thing, 395 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: and it's got a lot of these kind of cool 396 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: production touches that really make it spe But what happened 397 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 1: that day, so this is what we said March seven, 398 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: that fateful day, the police receive an anonymous phone call. Well, 399 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,479 Speaker 1: Charles Smith is the guy who gives the phone call. 400 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: I've never don't We've never been able to fall up 401 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 1: on Charles Smith did the air quotes there, so I 402 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: forgot that doesn't come through. Charles Smith calls the police 403 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,719 Speaker 1: and reports a body at the call your residence. Police 404 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: show up, police that have been there before, and no, 405 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 1: this place is booby trapped, so they proceed with caution. 406 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: But they do break down the door and it is 407 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: walled up with junk. They can't get through. They start 408 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: acting their way through and uh vapor of decay erupts 409 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: out onto the street. Let see, very much like Atlanta 410 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: in the summer, very much for basically a whole day, 411 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: they're trying to get in different ways. It's all tunneled. 412 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: They know that there's booby traps, things like feces and 413 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: jars and bricks and nails and things like that. Really terrible, 414 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 1: horrible things that could very much enter a person. Someone 415 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: breaks through, takes a ladder up to the second story, 416 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: breaks through window and finds Homer Callier. Uh, doubled up 417 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: as he always is in the corner, but he's shriveled 418 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: up and dead. How long had he been dead? Did 419 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: it seem, for lack of a better word, fresh, or 420 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 1: was the corpse like well it I'm not sure how 421 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 1: soon they were able to determine it, but it had 422 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: it had been a while. It had been a while. 423 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: And then the real question was where's Langley as he 424 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: killed his brother? Has he fled? And the search that 425 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:49,360 Speaker 1: went on took weeks to find Langley Callier. Did they 426 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: search the city or the house? It was an international search. Yeah, 427 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: like I said, eleven newspapers New York at the time. 428 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: So that echo chamber is going crazy. Langley Callers are 429 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: getting sighted everywhere in different cities in the Carolinas and 430 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: Chicago on trains extra there's a moment where a guy 431 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: there's a photograph that gets published in some paper of 432 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: a guy literally holding a sign that says, I am 433 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: not Langley call here because he's got kind of like 434 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 1: a little beard and a little scruffed and uh, and 435 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 1: maybe it looks a bit like one of the call 436 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: Your brothers. So this is all clearly building to a 437 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: conclusion of sorts. It turns out, however, that Langley call 438 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: your has not crossed the Atlantic. He has not smuggled 439 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: himself into Canada or Mexico. Where where, where exactly is he? 440 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: It's very tragic. He's found ten feet from where his 441 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: brother Homer was found, and it's a it's it's a 442 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: number of weeks later. Uh, there was so much junk, 443 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: and they'd spent all this time clean clearing, a police 444 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: and firefighters clearing it. Then eventually professional cleaning cruise or 445 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: clearing cruise rather just ten ft from his brother. He 446 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,439 Speaker 1: was coming to bring him food and caught one of 447 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: his own booby traps. Died there, and Homer died of neglect. 448 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 1: He hadn't been fed. And so you end up with this, 449 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: like when Nol was talking about earlier, this sort of bizarre, 450 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 1: stranger than fiction tale that's embedded in folklore, and it 451 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: reads a bit like a morality tale. But then I 452 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: don't know what it is that they call your brothers? 453 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: Did that was so wrong? Like I think I say 454 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: in the episode, I mean, probably they should have paid 455 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 1: their taxes and stuff. But it's also a very distinctly 456 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: New York kind of story where it's like you're surrounded 457 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: by people. Being in New York, every inch, every scrap 458 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: of space is used up, is you know, occupied, and 459 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: you have no like there's no sense of freedom kind 460 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 1: of when you're walking around New York. Like it's a 461 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: beautiful place and there's a lot going on, but it 462 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,959 Speaker 1: does have this claustrophobic feeling to it anyway. So the 463 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: idea that, especially now knowing we know about real estate 464 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,479 Speaker 1: prices and all that, that two men would just like 465 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: own this quite opulent set up and just allow it 466 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: to become this absolute nightmare in that way, and it 467 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: speaks to kind of the cluttered feeling of New York 468 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: as a city. I think it's a very interesting parallel there. 469 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: And yes, is there anything wrong with being a hoarder 470 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: or collecting things or any of that stuff. No, but 471 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,199 Speaker 1: this speaks to something I think a little bigger than that, 472 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: and that paranoia and the fact that these two were 473 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: all they had and they got into this like you know, 474 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: kind of cycle of just not wanting anybody else to 475 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: be in their lives at all. And yet they're living 476 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: in the most populous place in the country. Whether it's 477 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: so much culturally going on in such an interesting time 478 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: and history to write, Franz Lids calls it a New 479 00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: Yorker's worst nightmare. Uh. You know this also calls to 480 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: mind a documentary called Cropsy. Are you Familiar with Us? 481 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: Cropsy is a documentary about an urban legend regarding a 482 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: boogeyman like figure that stalks people in this in the 483 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: area surrounding a place called the Willowbrook Mental Institution, which 484 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: had been closed down and in the In the course 485 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: of this documentary, they find that this boogeyman like figure, 486 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: this modern urban legend, is based on fact, and there 487 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: is a real uh, there is a a pearl of 488 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: truth inside this this uh clamshael of scary urban folklore. 489 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: We got there so uglier than a Joe Montana pass. 490 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: I haven't seen that documentary, but I didn't remember it 491 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: until you started talking about it. And it's good. It's 492 00:29:52,520 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: a worthwhile documentary. I need to rewatch that. Now. You've 493 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: heard us talk a little bit about the call your brothers, folks, 494 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: But if you want to truly experience the story, which 495 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: goes much deeper than what we've discussed here. We highly 496 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: recommend that you get the too your favorite podcast app 497 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: of choice started on the seventeenth of June to Talk 498 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: Out to check out the Call your Brother's Story. However, 499 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: there are other episodes of Ephemeral available now, Like, as 500 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 1: you're listening to this, please listen to the rest of 501 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: our show before you listen to the next one. But 502 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: what are some what are some topics that really uh 503 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: stuck out in your mind that you've published recently. Well, 504 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: we've just published an episode uh with interviews uh Sarah Wasserman, 505 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: who's a professor at the University of Delaware. It's basically 506 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: and ephemer teacher. Oh wow, yeah, And so she's the 507 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: people the person who can really answer some of the 508 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: tough questions that we've brought up at the top of 509 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: the show. The episode before that is a study of 510 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: Ottoman American diaspora music. You might say, what immigrants from 511 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: the collapsing Ottoman Empire in the early part of the the century, 512 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,479 Speaker 1: the teens, twenties, thirties, fleeing like people are from all 513 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: over the world coming to America and recording heart stopping 514 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: beautiful music in New York, mostly Chicago for big labels 515 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,239 Speaker 1: like Columbia Victor and then also some small independent labels too, 516 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: So music and Greek and Arabic that has largely, almost 517 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: entirely been forgotten, these records that were pressed in in 518 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: in limited in limited quantities because of some sort of 519 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: racist practices at time. That's astonishing. You know. Um, part 520 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: of the area where I and one of our one 521 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,719 Speaker 1: of our colleagues, Dylan Fagan, is from in Tennessee is 522 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: as a huge population of Lebanese immigrants who have left. 523 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: I think Lebanon was at least in name ruled by 524 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: the Ottoman Empire until that collapse from what post World 525 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: War one. Ish. And I think I've heard some of 526 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 1: I I have to listen to this. I think I've 527 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: heard something that might qualify in this genre that's bizarre 528 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: to me. And I mean there's all kinds it's not 529 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: there's all kinds of music, and there's party songs, there 530 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: are heart prick songs. Uh, and there's fantastic singing and 531 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: food playing and things that you don't I don't really 532 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: have the vernacular to describe, but we we interview in 533 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: this episode, uh, and really where all of The inspiration 534 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: for it came from is um, a gentleman named Iannagaski 535 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: who is in Baltimore and does reissue records of this stuff, 536 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: literally sometimes pulls them out of the trash. I've I've 537 00:32:58,320 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: seen pictures of some of these records that they have 538 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: so abused, and does everything he can two salvage them, 539 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: to save them, to learn as much as he can 540 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 1: about the performers. Sometimes you can't find anything. Sometimes you 541 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: get lucky and spread the word about it. So it's 542 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: it's a it's a fantastic interview that that's part of that. 543 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: And the music and it is it's some of my 544 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: favorite music now I would love to hear it and 545 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: don't have to take our word for it. You can 546 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: tune in and check out this music yourself. And that's 547 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: the thing. Even what you're gonna get with this show 548 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: is the the conceit of the show is such a 549 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: cool one. But it also allows for such a broad 550 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: range of topics, which I think is really important even 551 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: for a show like what we do. Like our only 552 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: lynch pin is that these stories are in some way bizarre, strange, 553 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: or ridiculous or hilarious, and so that gives us like 554 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: kind of carte blanche to go in all kinds of 555 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: different directions. Similarly with your show, UM, very different show, 556 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: but very similar heart in terms of just like being 557 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: fascinated by things and want to get answers to why 558 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: things play out the way they do in history, and 559 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: just kind of I think anyone that is into this 560 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: show even remotely is going to be very much into 561 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,360 Speaker 1: your show as well. To me, it's a it's a 562 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: there's something about it, And please take this for the 563 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: profound compliment it is that reminds me of the free 564 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: associative nature of the film Waking Life, the way that 565 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: it connects in this very very intentional but dream like state. 566 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? This is this is one 567 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: of the podcasts that, UM, I hear a ton of shows, 568 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: but this is one of the ones that comes with 569 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: a very new and unique voice and and I mean 570 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: that sincerely. You can compare me to Richard Linkletter anytime. 571 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: So it looks like we're going to we're going to 572 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: have to save our our our own explorations of things 573 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,399 Speaker 1: that came and went for another day. But shout out 574 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: to Pizzeria Chips. I miss you. If you're listening if 575 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:05,280 Speaker 1: a big demo of our show is uh, ext sentient 576 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: pizzeria chips, potato chips, terrified gained sapience. Yeah, I was 577 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,800 Speaker 1: gonna talk about Beta Max tapes that were only literally killed. 578 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: Production was killed by Sony like in and I believe 579 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,399 Speaker 1: they stopped distributing the players and recorders of Beta Max 580 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: tapes only a couple of years before that. But that 581 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: used to be kind of the like go to for 582 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,280 Speaker 1: high resolution news footage and archiving. And now I actually 583 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: have a stack of Beta maxes on my desk right 584 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:35,879 Speaker 1: now that I'm trying to find a place that can 585 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: transfer them digitally, and there are folks that still have them, 586 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: whether their news agencies or like companies that specialize and 587 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 1: digitizing your family memories. That's big business now because of 588 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,720 Speaker 1: this nature of ephemera. And not only is the medium 589 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: antiquated now, the way of playing it back is gone 590 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: or much more scarce. And that's that you have a 591 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,280 Speaker 1: really great trailer for your show that's all about answering 592 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 1: machine messages and how that used to be such a 593 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,720 Speaker 1: cultural thing that people would do and it was important 594 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 1: to leave a really good message and just the idea 595 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,879 Speaker 1: of these things that kind of came and went left 596 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: an impression, and now it's almost this kind of like 597 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: specter that like hangs over society and it's really interesting 598 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 1: and I'm looking forward to hearing more from Phemeral with 599 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 1: Alex Williams. I'm going to I'm going to save that. 600 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: I have this great list that I'm gonna save and 601 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: post on our Facebook page later for Ridiculous Historians. Because 602 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,839 Speaker 1: I did an okay job just mentioning pizzeria's. It's really 603 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: hard not to just immediately start talking about them. So 604 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna like mention some things that left and 605 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: then we'll pick it up later. So check us out 606 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: on our Facebook page, Ridiculous Historians. You should be able 607 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: to find a Phemeral wherever you find your favorite podcast 608 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,760 Speaker 1: like Ridiculous History and so on. In the meantime, Alex, 609 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,919 Speaker 1: thank you so much for for coming on the show. 610 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 1: Actually another started with a peek behind the Curtain. Let's 611 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: end with one. Our office actually close to a few 612 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: hours ago we were able to convince you to just 613 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: stay over and take this strange journey with us. You know, before, 614 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,280 Speaker 1: I feel like I would be remiss to not mention 615 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: that Ridiculous History was the first show that I helped make. 616 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,719 Speaker 1: At the very beginning it was it was the three 617 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: of us at the very very beginning of it. And Alex, 618 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:20,919 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you know this or not, You've 619 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 1: got so much on your play. We thank you at 620 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: the end of every episode for the wonderful theme that 621 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,359 Speaker 1: you composed. So now we can do our little thank yous, 622 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: and we can do it in person. Thanks to Alex 623 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: Williams who composed our theme and for being here today 624 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 1: for an interview. I didn't know that you and I 625 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,240 Speaker 1: very much appreciate it. Yeah, we we are big fans 626 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,880 Speaker 1: of thanking people in this show. But also like to 627 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,799 Speaker 1: thank super producer Ramsey Ram Jams, you don't thank you 628 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: so much for saving the show, Ramsey, Thanks for having me. Guys, 629 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: absolutely our pleasure. Thanks to you, Super Producy, Casey Pegram 630 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 1: here in spirit and not forgotten galvanting around Paris right 631 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: now living his best second life. Um and thanks to 632 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: Christopher Hasiotis you know, also here in spirit. Thanks to 633 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: uh Jonathan Strickland a k a. The Quister, as well 634 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,320 Speaker 1: as our research associate Gabe l who desperately needs a nicknames. 635 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 1: So send some suggestions our way. Ben, Thanks to you 636 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 1: for always being a friend and a confidant down that 637 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,879 Speaker 1: road back again you know the drill? Yeah yeah, thanks 638 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 1: to you as well. Noel. We are gone forward today. 639 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 1: That sends our episode, but not our show. You can 640 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,879 Speaker 1: also find us on our aforementioned Facebook page. You can 641 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 1: find us on Twitter. You can find us at Instagram. 642 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:38,319 Speaker 1: You can also find our weird personal Shenanigan's Misadventures and 643 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 1: malarkey on our personal instagrams. I'm at Ben Bolan actually 644 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: changed my handle, I am now at how now Noel Brown? 645 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: And where can they check out? Ephemeral on the social 646 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: media is Alex at Ephemeral Show. We'll see you next time, 647 00:38:51,920 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: fols him. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit 648 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,799 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 649 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:21,240 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.