1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. 3 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And 4 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: in today's episode, we're going to be looking at a 5 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: spectacular bit of hypothetical air travel that has intrigued us 6 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: for centuries. The vacuum airship or knull ship as I've 7 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: seen it referred, and that's such a cool name for 8 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: something that I think I had to front loaded on 9 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: this episode, but usually it's just referred to as a 10 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: vacuum airship. And the basic principle, as we'll discuss, is 11 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: pretty simple. Hydrogen, helium or hot air filled balloons allow 12 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: an airship to traverse the skies because these gases are 13 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: lighter than the surrounding air, and even lighter gas is 14 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: the absence of any gas at all, the vacuum. If 15 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: one could create a vacuum chamber or bladder that was 16 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: itself light enough, then this could be used to provide 17 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: lift for airships on Earth or even on other planets. 18 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: I mean, it's such an obvious extension of the idea 19 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: underlying balloons indirigibles all lighter than air flight craft. You 20 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: would have to assume that if if you don't see 21 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: things like this being used all the time, there must 22 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 1: be a pretty good reason. And I guess we'll get 23 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: to that in a little bit. But yeah, it's it's 24 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: like an obvious place to take the idea. Yeah, yeah, 25 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: And and so it's ultimately such a fascinating topic because yeah, 26 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: there's the basic underlying science of the principles of it 27 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: are pretty sound. There are material challenges in place, but 28 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 1: then the history of the concept is pretty interesting as well. 29 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: Thus far, however, the main place you'll see these vacuum 30 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: airships deployed are going to be within the pages of 31 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: science fiction and fantasy. And one of the main examples 32 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: of this and this and you'll see this why le 33 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: Cited is a novel that was serialized between nine thirty 34 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: by Edgar Rice Burrows titled Tarzan at the Earth's Core, 35 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: not to be confused with At the Earth's Core, which 36 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: was his nineteen fourteen novel that established the hollow Earth 37 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: world of Pellucidar, which is this, like it sounds, it's 38 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: like a world within our world. It it has a 39 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: race of intelligent and I think psychic terra Saar overlords 40 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: called the Mahar or the Mahar and the that novel 41 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: prominently features a subderine. So we've actually mentioned that book 42 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,079 Speaker 1: on the show before in our episode about subderines, which 43 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: is another sort of fantastic um hypothetical, uh, means of 44 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: traversing the natural environment. But this Tarzan at the Earth 45 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: score is a crossover novel which features Tarzan traveling to 46 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: the inner world v a vacuum airship. And I had 47 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: to dive into this in a little bit. I assume 48 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: you haven't read this one either. No, I haven't read it. 49 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: I do remember it was mentioned in that earlier episode. 50 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: But also it just got me thinking about, like, wait, 51 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: where do all of these science fiction books about a 52 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 1: hollow earth with like a different biosphere or or some 53 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: kind of archaic state. Uh, where does all that come from? 54 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: Because this isn't the first one. This is in what thirty, 55 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: but like as far back as the eighteen sixties you 56 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 1: had Jules Verne with Journey to the Center of the Earth, 57 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:32,839 Speaker 1: which is very similar concept. I don't think it has 58 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: like psychic pterosaurs, but it does have a hollow earth 59 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: with like essentially a mirror biosphere on the inside that 60 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: has dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures. Well, it makes me 61 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: think we should come back into a proper episode on 62 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: the concept of the hollow Earth. You know why why 63 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: it it wouldn't work A quiet individuals thought that it 64 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: could have worked, and why it has uh, you know 65 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: why it has captivated people's imagination for so long. Yeah, 66 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: I don't know of anything older than than Jules Verne, 67 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: but but there may be. So I had not read 68 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: this book either. I think the only Edgar Rice Burrows 69 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: novel that I have read is one called The Monster Men, 70 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: which memory serves is largely it seems very inspired by 71 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: the Island of Dr Moreau, but it was it was 72 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: pretty fun, as I remember it, And so I went 73 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: ahead and and dove into this one, and I was 74 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: like reading through it trying to find some good examples 75 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: of them talking about vacuum airships. And I think I 76 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: wasted a good, uh like minutes just scanning through the 77 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,799 Speaker 1: book trying to do some searches. And then I realized 78 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: that I was looking at the wrong one. I was 79 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: looking at the Earth's Core instead of Tarzan at the 80 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: Earth's Core. But I switched to the correct book, and 81 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 1: they talk about the vacuum airship a lot in that one, 82 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: So I can't just find like the one spot where 83 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: they're talking about it there. It's a frequent topic of conversation. 84 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: But I do want to read just a fragment here 85 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: from it where they touch on it. Uh. So this 86 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: is Edgar Rice Burrows from Tarzan at the Earth Score 87 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: again from ninety. The greatest risk that we would have 88 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: to face would be a possible inability to return to 89 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: the outer crust owing to the depletion of our helium 90 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: gas that might be made necessary by the maneuvering of 91 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 1: the ship. But that is only the same chance of 92 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: life or death that every explorer and scientific investigator must 93 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: be willing to assume in the prosecution of his labors. 94 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: If it were but possible to build a whole sufficiently 95 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: light and at the same time sufficiently strong to withstand 96 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: atmospheric pressure, we could dispense with both the dangerous hydrogen 97 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: gas and the rare and expensive helium gas, and have 98 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: the assurance of the utmost safety and maximum of buoyancy 99 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: in a ship supported entirely by vacuum tanks. Perhaps even 100 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: that is possible, said Tarzan, who was now evincing increasing 101 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: interest in Gridley's proposition, the Americans shook his head. It 102 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: may be possible someday, he said, but not at present 103 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 1: with any known material. Any receptacle having sufficient strength to 104 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: withstand the atmospheric pressure upon a vacuum would have a 105 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: weight far too great for the vacuum to lift. Okay, 106 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: so first of all, I am definitely picturing this as 107 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: the Kristoff Lambart Tarzan from from gray Stoke. This has 108 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: got to be it, right, Yes, yes, it's it's a 109 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 1: gentleman Tarzan here. Mild spoiler for the for the book. 110 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: Obviously they figure it out. I believe some sort of 111 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: rare element or metal is introduced that it makes the 112 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: impossible possible, because otherwise, how are you gonna get Tarzan 113 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: to the Inner Earth to battle psychic terra stars. I mean, 114 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: it's funny how this Psychic Terrastar book does uh correctly 115 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: diagnose some of the problems with existing lighter than air craft. 116 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: So one problem is needing to have continued access to 117 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: your lighter than air gas so that so that you 118 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,679 Speaker 1: can like refill the balloon or the tank do because 119 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: there's always going to be some kind of leakage or 120 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: potentially even damage that would allow the gas to escape. 121 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: You'd have to have a way to get more helium 122 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: in there. If it's helium. Of course, if it's hydrogen, 123 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: you run into a whole uh raft of other problems, 124 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: as one can see with the history of the henden 125 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: Bergens and fourth hydrogen very flammable and having the same 126 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: uh you know, fixed access problems as helium. But yeah, 127 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: with with a vacuum like, you don't need to carry 128 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: vacuum around with you. All you would need to do 129 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: is find a way to pump out the chamber. Yeah, 130 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: so you can see why it's such an attractive option. 131 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: And this this passage kind of encapsulates all that I 132 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: was looking around too. I noticed that it's It's been 133 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: noted that at least two other authors that we've mentioned 134 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: on the show before have also employed vacuum airship principles. 135 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: Peter Wattson makes use of them in his Rifters books 136 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: as a means of enabling flying machines. I totally forgotten 137 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: about this, and then Ian in Banks invoked them in 138 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: at least three different novels, including at least one that 139 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: I definitely read, but I also don't remember mentioned of them. 140 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: I guess I just wasn't My mind wasn't as open 141 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: of the idea of vacuum airships when I was reading 142 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: these books. And I've also read that they factor into 143 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: Neil Stevens since The Diamond Age, which I have not read, 144 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: but I've heard good things about. So wait a minute, 145 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: I actually know almost nothing about Tarzan. Where old does 146 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: Tarzan go? Is he like the lepre Con or like 147 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: he goes to space, he goes to the to the ocean, 148 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: he goes to the Hollow Earth? Does he does he 149 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: go to Las Vegas at some point? What? What? What 150 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: are all his adventures? Well, Joe, there are twenty four 151 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: Tarzan novels by bar Rice Burrow, so you know he 152 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: he ultimately gets around. I have not read any of them, 153 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: but you can just when you when you start scanning 154 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: the titles, you realize that he maybe starts running out 155 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: of jungle and he has to has to go to 156 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: lost Empires in the Earth's core, in a city of gold, 157 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: forbidden City. Uh. Looks like he may join the Foreign 158 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: Legion at one point, so, uh, you know, he's got 159 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: to get out there and travel around and and explore 160 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: the outer world. But I think generally speaking, he's always 161 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: going to battle or befriends some sort of the large animal. 162 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: Thank you for correcting my tarzan ignorance. Now I know, 163 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 1: all right, But I guess before we go any further 164 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: exploring the history of proposals for vacuum airships, it would 165 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: be worth briefly explaining the underlying reasoning, and that is that, 166 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: whether you're talking about a lighter than air gas inside 167 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: a balloon or a rigid chamber containing a vacuum, the 168 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: physics phenomenon that would cause this, uh, this balloon or 169 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: or chamber to fly is what's known as Archimedes principle, 170 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: named after the ancient Greek inventor and mathematician. And I 171 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: think the core idea you really need to understand in 172 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: order to grasp Archimedes principle at a gut level is 173 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: the idea of fluid displacement. Fluid displacement so a few 174 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 1: extreme experimental conditions aside. Basically, if you are on Earth, 175 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: you are submerged within a fluid. So if you're a 176 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: barracuda or a jellyfish, that fluid is going to be water. 177 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: If you are a human standing in line at King 178 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: that fluid is the atmosphere. Both gases and liquids are 179 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: fluids because they both flow to fill containing environments. And 180 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 1: when you occupy space within a mass of either kind 181 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: of fluid, whether it's liquid or gas, you are taking 182 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: up space that this fluid would otherwise fill, would otherwise 183 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: rush in to fill, So, in other words, you are 184 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: displacing gas or liquid. The inside about physics that our 185 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: comedes had is that objects submerged within a fluid are 186 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 1: pushed upward, meaning in the opposite direction of gravity, by 187 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: a force that is equal to the weight of the 188 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: fluid displaced by that object. And this is why boats float. 189 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: I mean, humans have been making boats for a long time, 190 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: but uh, it took us a while to figure out 191 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: what is the exact physics principle governing the flotation of boats. 192 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: So a boat, for example, may have a steel hull, 193 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: and steel is very dense, So you would think that 194 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: a steel boat should sink, right, I remember wondering about 195 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: this when I was a little kid. How does you 196 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 1: know metal sink? So how does a metal boat float? 197 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 1: A metal boat floats because the hull of the boat 198 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: displaces a lot of water. An amount of water that 199 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: is as heavy as the boat itself. So when a 200 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: boat gets launched out into the ocean, it sinks down 201 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: in the water until the amount of water it displaces 202 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: is the same as the weight of the boat overall. 203 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: And then after it reaches this equilibrium, it's held up 204 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: on the surface of the water by that buoyancy, that 205 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: force pushing upward on the boat equivalent to the weight 206 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: of the water it displaces. And this, of course is 207 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: also why a ship sinks when water leaks into its hull. 208 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: It's water that is denser than air filling that void 209 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: that was otherwise filled with with air. So kind of weird, 210 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: but I think accurate. Way to think of a ship 211 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: on the ocean is a rigid balloon filled with air. Now, 212 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 1: the same principles that apply in water also hold true 213 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: in the fluid of the atmosphere. Is a force pushing 214 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: up on an object that is equivalent to the weight 215 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: of the air that that object displaces. Now, for most 216 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: objects around us, the the atmospheric buoyancy is negligible because 217 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: objects are way more dense than the atmosphere that they're displacing. Uh. 218 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: Though technically it is true that your body has a 219 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: measurable buoyancy within the air. It's not enough to make 220 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: you float up off the ground, because you know, human 221 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: bodies are are pretty massive. But based on some rough 222 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: calculations I looked up, it seems like it's probably a 223 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: fraction of a pound at sea level for the typical 224 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: range of human body weight. It's one estimate I saw 225 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: was that it's like zero point two pounds for a 226 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: hundred and seventy pound adult. So how can you change 227 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: an object in order to take advantage of that atmospheric 228 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: buoyancy and make it float up in the atmosphere like 229 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: a boat floats on the water. Well, as demonstrated by 230 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: balloons and dirigibles, what you can do is make that 231 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: object take up a lot of space, mostly with material 232 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: that is lighter than the atmosphere itself, which is usually 233 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: going to be a lighter than air gas like hydrogen 234 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: or helium. But of course it could also be a 235 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: chamber that has no gas in it at all, nothing 236 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: in it at all, which would be the lightest possible 237 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: way of taking up space. Now here's a weird fact. 238 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,199 Speaker 1: I was just wondering about which of the fundamental forces 239 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: actually causes the force of buoyancy. Where is that force 240 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: pushing up on a boat or pushing up on a 241 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: balloon coming from? Counterintuitively, that force originates with gravity, which 242 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: is kind of strange because the force of buoyancy is 243 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: going in the opposite direction of gravity. Right, Why would 244 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 1: gravity cause something to rise up from the ground instead 245 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: of sinking down? But you have to think about a 246 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: sort of chain of causes here. So, whether you're talking 247 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: about the atmosphere or the ocean, gravity is pulling all 248 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: that fluid toward the Earth's center of mass. It's pull 249 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:04,119 Speaker 1: ling all the water or the gas down. So gravity 250 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: is the cause of air pressure and water pressure, and 251 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: it is the downward pressure of the surrounding fluid that 252 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: causes buoyant objects within that fluid to rise. So, to 253 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: use some kind of approximate and anthropomorphic terms, when a 254 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:24,239 Speaker 1: balloon floats, it's because the heavier gas of the atmosphere 255 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: around it is all rushing down to get to the surface, 256 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: and it has to push the balloon out of the 257 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: way to get there. And it can push the balloon 258 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: out of the way because the balloon is less dense 259 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: than it is. It's kind of like if asking, well, hey, 260 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: I'm why if everybody's trying to get to the TV 261 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: section of the big box store on Black Friday, everybody's 262 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: trying to get there, then why is the four Why 263 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: am I being pushed out of the store because everybody 264 00:14:51,760 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: else is pushing harder than you are. Thank But to 265 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: come to real world proposals for vacuum airships. Uh. One 266 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: thing I was shocked about was how far back this 267 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: idea goes. I would have imagined it was something dreamed 268 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: up in the nineteenth century. Yeah, I was very much 269 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: the same. But then I started looking into it, and 270 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: sure enough, the roots go all the way back to 271 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: the seventeenth century. So our story here begins with an 272 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: Italian Jesuit priest by the name of Francesco Lana Detersi, 273 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: who lived sixty one through six seven, sometimes called the 274 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: father of arionnautics. His groundbreaking book from sixteen seventy, titled 275 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: Prodromo de larte Mastra, was apparently the first to discuss 276 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: the possibility of human flight via mathematical calculations and an 277 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: understanding of physics. Uh. These were no mere loss speculations either. 278 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: This was a work that was translated and then circulated 279 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: throughout Europe, and subsequent advancements in ballooning, for example, are 280 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: are often directly linked to this work, namely thinking of 281 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: the month Gaffier Brothers a flight in seventeen eighty three, 282 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: which was an unmanned balloon flight lasting about ten minutes. Now, 283 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: I want to stress we're largely talking with with the 284 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: Western and European sphere of of exploration here. If you 285 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: get into the Eastern accounts, there are some some older 286 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: accounts of possible you know, unmanned hot air balloon experimentation 287 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: in China for example, going back you know to I 288 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: think like the third century see wow, but again unmanned. Now, 289 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: in this particular book, Lana covered many subjects uh here 290 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: and I was reading about this in a paper titled 291 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: the Jesuit Contribution to Written Art Technological Sources in the 292 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: seventeen and eighteen centuries by Karina Gramatki from sixteen. Apparently 293 00:16:54,440 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: the topics include invention itself, drawing, design, pigments, chemistry, medicine, arithmetic, 294 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: the production of telescopes, microscopes, and finally aeronautics. Pick a lane. 295 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 1: I mean, this was an age where yeah, if you 296 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: were if you were into stuff, you were you were 297 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: into everything. Yeah, so, um a particular interest to Lana 298 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: here though we were recent advancements in the creation of 299 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: the vacuum pump. This would of course been a continuation 300 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: of suction pump technology. Uh. The idea of the vacuum pump. 301 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,959 Speaker 1: The first vacuum pump was invented in sixteen fifty by 302 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: the German scientists Otto von Garrick and subsequently experimented on 303 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 1: by others. Oh. Yeah, we've talked about Otto von guerricky 304 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: before in I think in an episode that we did 305 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: about atmospheric pressure, specifically reference to his experiments with the 306 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: so called Magdeburg hemispheres, which was a really interesting experiment 307 00:17:55,080 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: that took place in the sixteen fifties, I believe, And uh, 308 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: it's been while since we talked about it, so I 309 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 1: may be forgetting some of the details, but basically, from 310 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: what I recall, they took two brass hemispheres half spheres, 311 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: and then greased the edges of them with lard and 312 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: then pressed them together and then used the invention of 313 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: the air pump to remove air from inside these two hemispheres, 314 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: creating a vacuum within of course, a partial vacuum. You know, 315 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: they're not going to get every single molecule out, but yeah, 316 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: they're getting getting most of the gas out of them. 317 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,959 Speaker 1: And then they hooked these hemispheres up to horses and 318 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: had the horses pull in opposite directions to try to 319 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 1: pull them apart, and they couldn't. Like that, even horses 320 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: could not separate them. What they were demonstrating there was 321 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 1: how heavy the atmosphere is. That when you take all 322 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 1: of the atmosphere out of the inside of these two 323 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: two half spheres, you create such a disequilibrium that the 324 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: you know, the atmosphere is essentially reaching down and and 325 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 1: uh clutching these two things and pressing them together so 326 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: that even great force cannot pull them apart. Yeah. There 327 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: there are a couple of papers on this topic that 328 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: I was reading from New Scientists actually, like I was 329 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 1: kind of getting the impression that maybe the editor at 330 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: New Scientists is like pounding the desk that I need 331 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: more vacuum airship stories. But one of them was from 332 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine by Paul Collins titled The Rise 333 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: and Fall of the Metal Airship, which is ultimately about 334 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: metal airships in general and not just the vacuum airship concept, 335 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: but he mentions, uh this this experiment, writing uh quote 336 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: Otto von Gerriki had drawn together small copper hemispheres with 337 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,959 Speaker 1: such a strong vacuum that teams of horses could not 338 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: pull them apart. But he mentioned some other things of 339 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: note here. Collins also writes that the concept of a 340 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: vacuum airship appears in a German interplanetary travelog of seventy four, 341 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: envisioning trips to Mars. So another example of something ultimately 342 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: far earlier than I would have had, oh guessed it. 343 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 1: If I was to guess, well, when when we were 344 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: people first thinking about vacuum airships in the atmosphere of Mars, 345 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: I would not have gone with the mid Uh. Now 346 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: is a brief detour. I want to touch on another 347 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: thing that Collins mentions here um to get to the 348 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: title of his paper, there actually was eventually a metal 349 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: non vacuum airship, and this was in the first one 350 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: was a thirty eight meter airship designed by David Schwartz 351 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: and helped into the sky by the Prussian airship Battalion. 352 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: And it was a It was blimp shaped, but its 353 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: skin was riveted aluminum plates, and it traveled about six 354 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: kilometers total before it stopped. They put the brakes on 355 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: and it caused the thing to crumble due to its 356 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: rigid construction. But the advantage of a fully functional metal 357 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 1: airship would be speed. Though so uh the the idea 358 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 1: didn't go completely away, and in good years, original airship 359 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: designer Ralph Ubson quote formed the Metal Clad Airship Corporation 360 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: to build an aluminum clad helium airship, the z m 361 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: C two for the U. S. Navy. Although notoriously difficult 362 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: to handle, the quote unquote tin bubble, as it was dubbed, 363 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: could reach a speed of a hundred kilometers an hour, 364 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: and it put in twenty two hundred flight hours before 365 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: it was decommissioned in n and that was it for 366 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: metal airships. That was the last one that took to 367 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: the skies here on Earth. And yet that was the 368 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: Detroit z m C two Angel. I include a picture 369 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: of it here for you. If one was looking at 370 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: you might not guess that what you're looking at is 371 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 1: is a metal structure, aluminum clad helium airship. That I mean, 372 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 1: if I've ever seen a tin bubble, that is the 373 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: tin bubble. But to clarify again, the one the actual 374 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,679 Speaker 1: examples we've just been talking about, the people got up 375 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: in the air flying even if they were even if 376 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: they failed early on, these were not vacuum airships. These 377 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: were airships that you even though they had rigid out 378 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: or hulls, they did use some form of gas inside. Yeah. Yeah, 379 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: So ultimately, as as we'll discuss, the vacuum airship is 380 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: still a concept that individuals are still chasing today. Now 381 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 1: coming back to Lana's book here, another important connection here 382 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: would be to Robert Boyle's work proving that air has weight. Essentially, 383 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: it was proven that all of the atmosphere could be 384 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: mechanically drawn out of a volume. Maybe the nature didn't 385 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: abhor a vacuum quite as much as previously supposed, and 386 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: Lana has taken the next step by speculating one exciting 387 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: way that such a vacuum could be made to work 388 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: for us. So what Lana does here is he basically 389 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: applies what was known at the time regarding the nature 390 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: of air, vacuum and cylinders to devise a means by 391 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: which first vacuum spheres would be made that would float 392 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: up through the air, and secondly that with enough vacuum 393 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: you could also float a vessel. So he proposed a 394 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: vessel consisting of a basket with a say ill and rudder, 395 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: held aloft by four large twenty five ft spheres made 396 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 1: of thin copper sheeting and bound together by rigging. Uh. 397 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: This was of course never actually built, but there have 398 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: been various illustrations of what this would have looked like. 399 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: I included one here for you, Joe. It looks positively whimsical. 400 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: Why does it? Does it have an oar? I guess 401 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: that's some kind of rudder. Actually, yeah, this is some 402 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: sort of rudder device to steer it. Though it really 403 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: does look like a paddle for the air. Now again, 404 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: now again, Atlanta was a very serious individual, so it 405 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: is he's not just dreaming here. He's applying what was 406 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: known about about the atmosphere and you know, current understanding 407 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 1: of physics, and so he was. He was serious about 408 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: the underlying principles at work here. So he discusses not 409 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: only how this concept might work, but he also gets 410 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: into some of the objections to it. For instance, do 411 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: you might ask, well, wouldn't this just float up into 412 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: outer space until the people aboard died and it would 413 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,679 Speaker 1: just be completely uncontrollable. Well, he describes how controlling the 414 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: air vacuum levels would allow you to make adjustments and 415 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,919 Speaker 1: keep yourself from just floating up to heights altitudes beyond 416 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: which you had intention of traveling to. Right, So, I 417 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: guess the fear is that, you know, if the vacuum 418 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 1: is potent enough that it would just float you up 419 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: to the top of the atmosphere and you'd sit on 420 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: it like a boat floats on top of the water. Now, 421 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: of course, you have to remember that even though a 422 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: vacuum chamber would have buoyancy within the atmosphere, it also 423 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: again there is weight, you know, there is weight made 424 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 1: up of the shell surrounding the chamber and the boat 425 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,959 Speaker 1: and all that. So that would counterbalance that to some extent. 426 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 1: But then also, yeah, the other thing is that you 427 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: could control altitude just by allowing some amount of gas 428 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: back into these partial vacuum chambers, and then so that 429 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: would help you sink back down and then if you 430 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 1: want to float up again, you would once again pump 431 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: that gas out. Yeah. Now, the big problem here, of course, 432 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: is the notion of containing that vacuum um. The big 433 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 1: question would be wouldn't it crush the copper spheres that 434 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: are contained that vacuum, or you know, that are allowing 435 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 1: the whole system to supposedly float to begin with. And 436 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 1: the correct answer we know now is yes, it would 437 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: have just crushed those spears. But at the time Lanta 438 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: contended that, now, this is the perfect shape of the 439 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: sphere would hold up to the equal pressure of the 440 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: vacuum within it. Again, we know now this wouldn't work, 441 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: but his hypothesis was that it could possibly function. Right, 442 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: So I guess here you're you're getting into the idea 443 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: of a balancing act, right, so that you can, of 444 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: course create a pretty pretty strong vacuum within a sealed 445 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 1: chamber without the weight of the atmosphere crushing it, just 446 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: you know, turn smashing that chamber like a tin can. 447 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: But in order to do that, you have to make 448 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: the outsides of the chamber pretty darn strong. And in 449 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: order to make them that strong, you have to add 450 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: more and more weight to the chamber, thus counteracting the 451 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: buoyancy effect of the vacuum within. Right, So you're chasing 452 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: the buoyancy here, and can you achieve it without adding 453 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 1: so much metal that you lose any buoyancy? You might 454 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 1: be seeking after and can you can you make the 455 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: materials thin enough without just causing it to collapse anyway, 456 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: And this will remain important when we get into subsequent 457 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: attempts to make this hypothesis and a reality. But here's 458 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,959 Speaker 1: another little bit of of interesting, ultimately speculation by Atlanta 459 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: on the use of aerial technology, because he ends up 460 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: concluding in the book that God would never allow such 461 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: a vessel to actually be built, as it could then 462 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: be used to attack cities and towns from above, and 463 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 1: that there would be absolutely no stopping such vessels. So 464 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 1: you know, God would just shut that down. It would 465 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: be like a tower of of battle situation. Oh, this 466 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: theological prediction must have been very well vindicated then when 467 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 1: when later people came along, I think Leibniz was one 468 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 1: of them, uh, showing that like no materials we know 469 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: about are strong enough to make this work. Yeah. But 470 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 1: but but again this idea of of of aerial dominance 471 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: say that would be possible in a military a situation. 472 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,119 Speaker 1: To a large extent line, it was correct here about 473 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: just how devastating this would be. Because, of course, during 474 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 1: War War one, Zeppelin served as the world's first long 475 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: range bombers, though their dominance would be short lived due 476 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: to their their weakness versus interceptor aircraft, but aerial bombardment 477 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,679 Speaker 1: would indeed be a defining factor of warfare from the 478 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: twentieth century onward. Yeah, the invention of air power, I 479 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: guess I'd say air power, along with like long range artillery, 480 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: completely changed war in the twentieth century. Now, on that note, 481 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: let's move to the next chapter in our history of 482 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: of the vacuum airship or our pursuit of the vacuum airship, 483 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: because this will take us to the late nineteenth century 484 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: right up until the dawn of the twentieth century. Because 485 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: there was at least one spirited individual who thought, yes, 486 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: the vacuum airship can work, and it will work. And 487 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: that is one author, Debase set Uh. And this is 488 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 1: detailed in Balloons to Jets, A Century of Aeronautics and 489 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: Illinois by one Howard L. Scame Horn. So author debossit 490 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: here was a Chicago doctor who quote designed and electrically 491 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: powered vacuum tub balloon which he intended to use for 492 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: transporting passengers and freight over vast distances at high speeds. 493 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: And this is described as an air tight tube cone 494 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 1: shaped at either end, and it was going to be 495 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: made of thin steel sheets and it would stay aloft 496 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: when all of the air had been pumped out of it. 497 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: And again it would be used for high speed transportation 498 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: of passengers and freight presumably, uh, you know, from Chicago 499 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: to two other important cities. I mean, if you can 500 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: create that without the atmosphere crushing it, good on you. 501 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: But I am doubtful. Yeah. But and so at this 502 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: point you might think, Okay, Chicago doctor daydreaming about his airships. 503 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: Well know, h he went a step further or uh, 504 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: the good doctor actually organized a company with three associates, 505 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: the Aerial Navigation Company of Chicago, and they raised a 506 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty thousand dollars at the time through the 507 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: sale of stock to construct one of the ships. So 508 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: already it's sounding a bit more like a legitimate effort now, right. 509 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: And there's more. Uh, When they hadn't produced anything with 510 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: it with these funds, they turned to Congress for more funds, 511 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: and funding bills were introduced in both houses of Congress 512 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: by then a representative Ransom W. Dunham of Chicago, And 513 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: it was apparently some traction or momentum here, but both 514 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: bills failed to pass. Why does this sound like something 515 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: that should be associated with the Chicago World's Fair. I 516 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: know I was thinking the same thing, you know, and 517 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: I guess to a certain extent, we are talking about, 518 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: you know, some of the same sort of you know, futuristic, technological, 519 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: um optimistic ideas that were circulating at the time. You 520 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: know that, like, well, we have the technology, but we 521 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: can do this. We can make these airships a reality, 522 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: and they're gonna fundamentally change the way we travel and 523 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: the way we move cargo. It's this is great, Let's 524 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: do it. Let's get the funding. Okay, well maybe we 525 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: need a little more funding. Let's get Congress on the Horn. 526 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, it really it sounds like there should be 527 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: a chapter about the Vacuum airship and Devil in the 528 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: White City. Yeah, so skame Horn rights that The fight 529 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: for the Chicago Void vessel here went on for a 530 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: good twenty years up until the dawn of the New century, 531 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: with the Debausit trying in vain to raise enough money 532 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: to build one of these ships, all the while dealing 533 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: with scientific critics that he had just insisted would be 534 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: proved wrong if they would just let him build one. 535 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: He was like, look, just just fund it. Just let 536 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: me build one, and then you'll see you'll see that 537 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: this this is possible. Um, but it sounds like the 538 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: real nail in the coffin. Was that one of a 539 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: couple of leading US aeronautical authorities of the time, Octave 540 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: Channeux and uh Alvary France's zomb quote publicly denounced and 541 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: mathematically prove the fallacy of the vacuum principle. Now, I 542 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: don't know the basis of the fallacy they're talking about there, 543 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: but I would have to assume that again, it's going 544 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: to be, uh, it's going to be rooted in the 545 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: lack of a material strong enough and light enough to 546 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: create this kind of vacuum shell. That if you're going 547 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: to create a rigid shell to contain a vacuum, the 548 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: atmosphere is always going to crush it unless you make 549 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: it so thick and so heavy that it that it 550 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: again out does the buoyancy effect of the vacuum and 551 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: makes it unable to fly. Right. Yeah, I mean that's 552 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: that has always been and still is largely the achilles 553 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: heel of the whole concept. Um by the way. The 554 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: same book also reveals that during this same time period 555 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: there was at least one other Illinois based inventor trying 556 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: to raise funds for an airship. It wasn't a vacuum airship, 557 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: but still airships were very much on the brain. And 558 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: it does sound like, yeah, the people of the White 559 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: City at the time, Uh, we're sharing some of the 560 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: same dreams for what the future of air travel looked like. 561 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: What if H. H. Holmes, instead of operating like a 562 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: a murder hotel, had operated a murder airship. Well, now 563 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: you've got a good movie, pitch. We haven't had a 564 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: I don't think we've had a good airship movie recently, right, 565 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: it could be all like a haunted airship or yeah, 566 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: a murder airship. I can't think of one. I think 567 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: of that scene in Indiana Jones and the Last Cersae. 568 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: That's about it. Yeah, yeah, there was there was another one. 569 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: Or when he when he punches the Nazi out of 570 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: the window no ticket, Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a and 571 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: that had some some very neat scenes with with the 572 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: Zeppelin there there was also a movie called Zeppelin that 573 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: had Michael Yorke in it. This would have come out 574 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:50,959 Speaker 1: and I remember seeing bits of it. I don't think 575 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: I've watched it in its entirety, but I remember catching 576 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: bits of it. I'm like American movie Classics or something, 577 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: and and being impressed by some of the scenes of 578 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: people aboard these these airships. Than all right, well, let's 579 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: take things into the twenty one century. Another New Scientist article. Again, 580 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: New Scientist is your go to place for articles about 581 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: vacuum airships. Uh. Noted science writer Philip Ball discussed this 582 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: in in a New Scientist article titled flying on Empty 583 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: from and as Ball discusses, yeah, this idea has never 584 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: quite gone away, in part because if it could be 585 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: pulled off again, you don't need hot air or flammable 586 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: hydrogen or precious helium to keep the ship afloat. It's 587 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: not about pump putting something in. It's about just taking 588 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: atmosphere out. And if you could only figure out the 589 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: materials problem, then you know the world is your oyster. 590 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: And again, the materials problem is designing an outer shell 591 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: that would be strong enough to withstand the atmospheric pressure 592 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,040 Speaker 1: trying to crush it in, but also light enough to 593 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: stay afloat. Right, And of course, as we get into 594 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: the modern era. We're in this age of of of 595 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: special you know, nanomaterials and new ways of looking at 596 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: how these materials can be put together. And of course 597 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: this is this has led to a number of ideas 598 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 1: that haven't been possible yet. We've been able to look 599 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: to the future and say, well, what what might we 600 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: be able to do If we can just create something 601 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: that's strong and flexible enough, you know, space elevators can 602 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: become a reality then, as well as things potentially like 603 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: the vacuum airship. And so Ball mentions an individual by 604 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: the name of Ben Jenet, who at the time of 605 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: publication was working on his doctorate at the Massachusetts Institute 606 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 1: of Technologies Center for Bits and Atoms, and Jenet devised 607 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: the use of lightweight quote unquote lattice materials to make 608 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: the shell of a vacuum ship possible. So Ball points out, 609 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 1: the Genet calculated that even with currently available materials, a 610 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: shell with a thickness one tenth of the radius of 611 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: the sphere it contains will be able to withstand the 612 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: air pressure without buckling, and this would then have to 613 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,720 Speaker 1: be covered with a thin, impermetable skin. Uh Genet's idea 614 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: would also involves creating the vacuum at a higher altitude, 615 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: which I thought was interesting where air pressure is lower, 616 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: and so you would have some I think what it 617 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,440 Speaker 1: was discussed here is solar powered hot air would be 618 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: used to allow the vessel to rise up to that 619 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 1: initial altitude, and then you would begin the vacuum process 620 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: when it's easier to pull that off, and then you 621 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: would have would have a theoretical operating altitude of something 622 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 1: like twenty meters or sixty thousand, six sixteen feet. Okay, 623 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,879 Speaker 1: so that makes sense. Up at a higher altitude, the 624 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,839 Speaker 1: air pressure is going to be reduced, which means there's 625 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 1: less crushing force on the outside of the chamber. Yeah. Yeah, 626 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: that's that's my understanding here. So Ball points out the 627 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,359 Speaker 1: Genet and his collaborators here were in at least we're 628 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: in prep still are in contact with Boeing, so Aurora 629 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: Flight Sciences on the concept, and then an Italian company 630 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: called oh Boot was also looking into vacuum ship ideas. 631 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: Ball reported that while most of the emphasis was on 632 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: shipping with these modern concepts, the idea of at least 633 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,879 Speaker 1: some level of human travel wasn't beyond possibilities as well. 634 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: At least for short jaunts. And again you come back 635 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: to this sort of the the romanticism of airships. I 636 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,879 Speaker 1: can imagine where this would be the case. Well, one 637 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,280 Speaker 1: thing you mentioned that operating altitude you said, twenty thousand 638 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: meters or like sixty feet, is well above the normal 639 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: operating altitude of fixed wing aircraft. So so I wonder what, 640 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,359 Speaker 1: what does what does it look like once you get 641 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: up that high? Are you starting to get into like 642 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: looking at seeing the curve of the Earth territory? I 643 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,960 Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, it sounds like a situation where you 644 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: you could easily get into this area where you're pretty 645 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 1: selling the tickets to celebrities and so forth, kind of 646 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: like we've seen with with these other high altitude flight 647 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 1: near space travel scenarios. So I don't know. It would 648 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 1: be interesting to see where where things go in the 649 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 1: decades ahead. But I wouldn't be surprised at all, uh 650 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,360 Speaker 1: to see one of these concepts sort of come to 651 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: fruition in at least in that uh, that scenario. But 652 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: I know when it happens, I'll be able to turn 653 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:20,319 Speaker 1: to New Scientist to read an article about it for 654 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 1: all your null ship needs. Yes, So One thing I 655 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,800 Speaker 1: looked into is that vacuum airships have also been proposed 656 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 1: in various ways for exploring other planets, particularly Mars. I 657 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,919 Speaker 1: think there have been a few ideas along these lines, 658 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,800 Speaker 1: but the main one I was reading about was linked 659 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,959 Speaker 1: to a U T. Austin aerospace engineering professor named John 660 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,759 Speaker 1: Paul Clark, who I think until just recently was here 661 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: in town at Georgia Tech. But Clark and colleagues UH 662 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: submitted a paper that I saw published under the NASA 663 00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,359 Speaker 1: Innovative Advanced Concepts Program, or in i a C. This 664 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: was a Phase one proposal called Evacuated Airship for Mars missions. 665 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: And I was reading about this in another summary that 666 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,279 Speaker 1: Clarke had prepared that's hosted on the NASA website, and 667 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 1: he makes some interesting points. One funny thing is that 668 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,800 Speaker 1: advanced project briefs like this always have the obligatory section 669 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: where they rag on whatever technology we're currently using. So 670 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 1: this one takes a few good wax at ground based 671 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,400 Speaker 1: rovers on Mars. It's like, you know, we're over with wheels, 672 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 1: can fall in a ditch, get stuck, you know, and 673 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: it's got limited line of sight, can't see over mountains, 674 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,279 Speaker 1: a lot of problems with with ground based rovers. You 675 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: know what would be better a rover that could fly, 676 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: But of course it's going to be very hard to 677 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: fly on Mars. And here's where a vacuum airship could 678 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 1: come in. Obviously, a vacuum airship would be useful in 679 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,279 Speaker 1: planetary explorations for some of the same reasons it would 680 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: be useful on Earth. You get the general transportation efficiency 681 00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 1: benefits of air travel without having to rely lie on 682 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 1: a fixed supply of low density gas like hydrogen or helium. 683 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: To keep a vacuum airship afloat, you don't need a 684 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 1: supply of gas. Technically, all you need is power power 685 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,799 Speaker 1: like electricity to operate a pump that will continuously evacuate 686 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: gas particles from the inner void. Now, Clark points out 687 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,800 Speaker 1: that there is a good reason what we've never developed 688 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: a vacuum airship for use on Earth. It's the same 689 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 1: reason we've been talking about already. There is no homogeneous 690 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 1: material yet discovered that is strong enough to be completely 691 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 1: evacuated and withstand the crushing pressure of Earth's atmosphere, at 692 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 1: least not without the structure becoming too heavy to float 693 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: Earth's There is cruel to vacuum airships. But Clark argues that, 694 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: based on his team's calculations, not only is this not 695 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,799 Speaker 1: true on Mars, the atmosphere of Mars is kind of 696 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 1: an ideal environment for a vacuum airship. Now this immediately 697 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: went against my into sans because before I really reasoned 698 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,399 Speaker 1: it through and read the argument here, I would have thought, well, okay, 699 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:10,319 Speaker 1: the atmosphere of Mars is much less dense than Earth's atmosphere. Uh, 700 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 1: the average surface density is something like zero point zero 701 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,399 Speaker 1: two kilograms per cubic meter. Compare that to Earth's, which 702 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: is more like one point two kilograms per cubic meter. 703 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: So Earth's is a couple of orders of magnitude greater 704 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,799 Speaker 1: in density than the Martian atmosphere. Martian atmosphere is very thin, 705 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,560 Speaker 1: and of course a balloon floats by having contents that 706 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 1: are less dense than the atmosphere. So in an atmosphere 707 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: with lower basically in a thinner atmosphere, I would have 708 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: assumed it's got to be harder for a balloon to float. 709 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,439 Speaker 1: But here is where I would have been wrong. Of Course, 710 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,520 Speaker 1: a vacuum is always less dense than even a very 711 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 1: thin atmosphere. So if it can be contained and it 712 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 1: displaces more atmosphere than the weight of the craft itself 713 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 1: than the weight of the shell and the payload, it 714 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 1: will float. The real benefit of Martian atmosphere is in 715 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 1: its pressure to density ratio, so the main constituent of 716 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: Martian air is carbon dioxide. Unlike on Earth, which has 717 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,840 Speaker 1: mainly nitrogen and oxygen. At a molecular level, carbon dioxide 718 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,399 Speaker 1: is denser than nitrogen and oxygen, and the cold temperatures 719 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: on Mars also help make that CEO two even denser. 720 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: You're probably familiar with the idea that hot gas expands, 721 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 1: cold gas contracts, and yet at the same time, a 722 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,640 Speaker 1: cool advantage of Mars is that there is far less 723 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:38,880 Speaker 1: atmospheric pressure pressing on the outer shell of the airship, 724 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: so you should be able to construct a vacuum envelope 725 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 1: that can stand up to the weight of the atmosphere 726 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 1: on Mars without buckling, using a design that is still 727 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: light enough to float. To read a section from the 728 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,879 Speaker 1: n I a C Paper quote, Mars having the most 729 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,359 Speaker 1: suitable atmosphere for the vacuum airship is quite remarkable, since 730 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,160 Speaker 1: the martiantmosphere is a severe detriment to all other flight 731 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 1: vehicle designs. So you know you try to do like 732 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,600 Speaker 1: a fixed wing aircraft on Mars, that that's going to 733 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 1: be really hard. Continuing the quote, the Martian atmosphere is 734 00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,200 Speaker 1: comprised almost entirely of carbon dioxide, so vehicles cannot use 735 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:22,320 Speaker 1: typical combustion fuels which require an atmospheric oxidizer. Glider, plane 736 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,400 Speaker 1: and helicopter designs are all hindered by the atmosphere of 737 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: Mars due to the low Reynolds number and relatively low density. Additionally, 738 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:34,319 Speaker 1: the vacuum airship provides benefit over other airship designs and 739 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:39,560 Speaker 1: super pressure balloons because of the inherent robustness of the design. Moreover, 740 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 1: if damage is sustained, the vacuum airship can land be 741 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:47,320 Speaker 1: repaired and then re evacuate to resume operation, whereas another 742 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 1: airship would need to be refilled with a lighter than 743 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 1: air gas. Therefore, the evacuated airship design thrives in an 744 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,319 Speaker 1: environment where most other aircraft are added disadvantage, and in 745 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,320 Speaker 1: this paper, Clark and colleagues claimed to have already modeled 746 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,640 Speaker 1: the design that should be able to carry a payload 747 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,399 Speaker 1: of fives in Martian air and UH and that way, 748 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,000 Speaker 1: they say could be increased with further design improvements. So 749 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,080 Speaker 1: the argument here is that not only is it a 750 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,720 Speaker 1: situation where to make uh, to make our vacuum airship 751 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,799 Speaker 1: dreams possible, we must go to Mars, it's instead, no, 752 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 1: that makes this the concept that makes this the design 753 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,840 Speaker 1: that makes the most sense on Mars if we're going 754 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,759 Speaker 1: to have anything flying around, right, that's their argument. And 755 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 1: I don't know if this has ever made it beyond 756 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:34,319 Speaker 1: this this phase one or phase two proposal level. So 757 00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,880 Speaker 1: I'm not aware of any evidence that this is actually 758 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 1: like being developed for Mars missions. But at least the 759 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,720 Speaker 1: initial case they make is really interesting, and I wonder 760 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,560 Speaker 1: if if anybody's going anywhere else with it, But yeah, 761 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 1: I'm certainly intrigued. So Earth, with its thick atmosphere, may 762 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,719 Speaker 1: well hate vacuum airships. It may just forever crush them. 763 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 1: Maybe there's no way we could really design one that 764 00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,239 Speaker 1: would would feasibly work on Earth, but Mars maybe a 765 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,520 Speaker 1: completely different story that that thinner atmosphere. Maybe just the 766 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,359 Speaker 1: place to make the stream of reality. Now, of course, 767 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: this this all brings to mind a previous episode of 768 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 1: the show that we did titled airships over Venus, which 769 00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:15,720 Speaker 1: discusses the the hypothetical use of airships in the opper 770 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,720 Speaker 1: atmosphere of Venus, at least for unmanned craft, but also 771 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,880 Speaker 1: in some of the more extreme and in fantastic concepts 772 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:25,759 Speaker 1: that have been discussed in some of the literature, the 773 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:30,240 Speaker 1: idea that you could potentially have a human being travel 774 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,719 Speaker 1: to the upper atmosphere of Venus and be inside especially 775 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:38,279 Speaker 1: designed airship. I think one of the ideas for for 776 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,920 Speaker 1: crude aircrafts there is literally that you could have the 777 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:46,960 Speaker 1: crew inside the balloon because in the Venusian atmosphere, breathable 778 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,000 Speaker 1: air floats. Yeah. Now, looking around, I noticed that there 779 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 1: there have been some papers that have come out, uh, 780 00:44:54,600 --> 00:45:00,000 Speaker 1: speculating about the use of vacuum airships in the Venusian atmosphere, 781 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,799 Speaker 1: the upper atmosphere. So it looks like there there at 782 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,840 Speaker 1: least are some individuals out there who are thinking about 783 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,800 Speaker 1: taking the vacuum concept to the upper atmosphere of Venus 784 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,040 Speaker 1: as well. You just hope it doesn't sink. I talk 785 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:18,000 Speaker 1: about heavy, heavy, crushing atmospheres, yes, yeah, the Venusian atmosphere 786 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:22,640 Speaker 1: ultimately is is an atmosphere that crushes everything all right. Well, 787 00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 1: on that note, we're gonna go and close out this episode, 788 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:26,359 Speaker 1: but we'd love to hear from everyone out there if 789 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,839 Speaker 1: you have thoughts on vacuum airships or just airships in general. Uh, 790 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:35,680 Speaker 1: some of these uh, these these concepts we've discussed regarding 791 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,120 Speaker 1: the atmospheres of other worlds. Everything is fair game, right in, 792 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,719 Speaker 1: let us know what you think. We'd love to hear 793 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 1: from you. As always, Core episodes of Stuff to Blow 794 00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,800 Speaker 1: Your Mind, the podcast we found in the Stuff to 795 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,920 Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind podcast. Feed Core episodes on two season Thursdays, 796 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,399 Speaker 1: Listener Mail on Monday's short form Artifact or Monster Fact 797 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,880 Speaker 1: on Wednesdays, and on Fridays, we do Weird How Cinema. 798 00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,080 Speaker 1: That is our time to set aside most serious concerns 799 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,960 Speaker 1: and just talk about a strange film. Huge thanks as 800 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,600 Speaker 1: always to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If 801 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,200 Speaker 1: you would like to get in touch with us with 802 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,120 Speaker 1: feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest topic 803 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,120 Speaker 1: for the future, or just to say hello, you can 804 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,680 Speaker 1: email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind 805 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:23,719 Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of 806 00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,360 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for My Heart Radio, 807 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,440 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you're 808 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:38,640 Speaker 1: listening to your favorite shows.