Speaker 1: Celebrity.
Speaker 2: Hi, Welcome to Barron four DC's premiere Gastro Wine Pub.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the Urban Vineyard.
Speaker 4: Hi, I have a reservation under Usha Vance. It's a
Speaker 4: party of two. That's me. I'm Usha.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, right this way. Your friend is already here.
Speaker 2: Follow me.
Speaker 3: Wonderful Usha, you look beautiful.
Speaker 4: Amy Fuckingchua, you bitch, come here, get in. Oh, Sid
Speaker 4: you were always me and JD's favorite professor at Yale
Speaker 4: School of Law.
Speaker 2: Oh stop it?
Speaker 3: Can I say this?
Speaker 2: You guys had such a love story and to see
Speaker 2: it playing out now in American politics, a real couple,
Speaker 2: really in love, real values.
Speaker 3: It's beautiful.
Speaker 4: Thank you. No. I've always said I think we represent
Speaker 4: the American dream. Me an upper middle class Indian American
Speaker 4: from San Diego and him this crazy, round faced hillbilly.
Speaker 2: Oh it's crazy because he's from the hills, dirty dirty hills.
Speaker 4: So hilly.
Speaker 3: Oh can we get your Pino?
Speaker 2: Nuwas from the Willamette value. Pino's okay for you? Oh sure,
Speaker 2: and that's you.
Speaker 3: You wanted a Pino grease or something.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 4: I think noir is totally fine. This. Yeah, I love
Speaker 4: all colors.
Speaker 3: Great.
Speaker 2: I have to ask how often do you two make
Speaker 2: love with everything that's going on right now in your careers?
Speaker 2: Now that we're out of the classroom, I can ask this.
Speaker 4: It's you know, it's crazy, just uh, you know, he
Speaker 4: just took this job with Peter Teel, which is so exciting. Peter,
Speaker 4: and I know we sent you a copy of one
Speaker 4: of the arcs of Hillbilly Elogy. Did you get it?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it's at my office, but I have actually been.
Speaker 4: Because we were hoping you could maybe write a blurb. Yes,
Speaker 4: and we're having sex twice a week.
Speaker 2: By the way, oh shell us.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you know, y yeah. Totally satisfying, totally missionary,
Speaker 4: and that's.
Speaker 3: What I find.
Speaker 2: It's connecting, you know, no matter if it's good or
Speaker 2: really bad, as long as you keep it up.
Speaker 4: It's about eye contact or and sometimes it's also not
Speaker 4: about eye contact.
Speaker 2: I could see him as someone who closes his eyes
Speaker 2: one eye, keeps one eye open. Oh, thank you, thank
Speaker 2: you anyway, Sorry, Usha, No, I can't wait to read
Speaker 2: the book. But if you want to summarize, just the
Speaker 2: highlights to me.
Speaker 4: Okay, So basically it's kind of his memoir.
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, So it's about growing up dirt poor.
Speaker 2: The mother was obese, a right middleweight middleweight and addicted.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yeah, it's really tough, fair and it's an
Speaker 4: American story, yes, which I know you love.
Speaker 2: I love American stories. I am a daughter of immigrants,
Speaker 2: I amma Patriot.
Speaker 4: And then it ends with him going to Yale as patriot.
Speaker 4: I'm meeting you.
Speaker 2: That's so wonderful. Yeah, it's kind of an arc from
Speaker 2: Hill to me. Yes, yes, okay, I you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. I'm gonna read it, but I don't need
Speaker 2: I'm I'm so thrilled and excited to write a blurb.
Speaker 4: Amy count me, Amy, I knew could count on you.
Speaker 4: Cheers to the upcoming blurb.
Speaker 3: Cheers to the blurb.
Speaker 4: So how often are you are you making love with
Speaker 4: your professor husband?
Speaker 1: Who's that knocking at the door.
Speaker 4: It's all your friends, you filthy whore. Your husband's gone,
Speaker 4: and we've got books and a bottle of wine to kill.
Speaker 1: It's Hollywood, it's books, it's gossip. I'm sure it's memoirs. Martini.
Speaker 1: Celebrity Club.
Speaker 2: Read it while it's hot.
Speaker 1: Celebrity Club, tell your secrets. We won't talk celebrity books.
Speaker 2: No boys are allowed, say it loud and.
Speaker 1: Clubs spuzz me in.
Speaker 2: I brought the queer foe.
Speaker 4: Hey, best friend, how are you?
Speaker 3: I am doing really well.
Speaker 4: It's been a crazy week for us so far.
Speaker 3: It's been insane. We've been like actual like.
Speaker 2: Coworkers this week.
Speaker 4: No, because we have so many different events all around
Speaker 4: the city that we're like going together. We had meetings.
Speaker 2: We had meetings and by the way, you guys listen
Speaker 2: to Seeking Derangements.
Speaker 4: With Ben with Ben Moore, a really funny podcast. We
Speaker 4: went through all these different like kind of cultural topics
Speaker 4: and decided whether or not they were gay.
Speaker 2: I mean, can you imagine it's us commenting and riffing
Speaker 2: on the LGBTQ plus.
Speaker 4: Yeah. One of them was like when your shoes squeak?
Speaker 4: Is that something gay guys do right? Right? And you'll
Speaker 4: have to listen to that episode to see where we
Speaker 4: come down on that topic.
Speaker 2: Okay, After that, though, we had these insane dumplings.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, the dumplings were so good.
Speaker 3: They were so good. It was very thin dough I
Speaker 3: will say.
Speaker 4: Yeah, crispy, but not too oily. No, they don't remember
Speaker 4: what it's called. Search time. Winie Zumpling is on Mott. Yeah,
Speaker 4: that's where I love this city because it's like later
Speaker 4: that day I went to a place a Stereophonic on
Speaker 4: Broadway three and a half hours long, I'm not even
Speaker 4: joking you, and it was great. It was fun. It's
Speaker 4: all about music, and it was like it's a record
Speaker 4: and it's like a seventies band. It's like the stages
Speaker 4: like it's like a recording student. It's like there's the
Speaker 4: engineer and then they're in the booth and it's a
Speaker 4: lot of like going back and forth between the booth
Speaker 4: and like you're hearing the like Mike turn on and
Speaker 4: they're fine, oh.
Speaker 2: Wait, so it's so hey, Darryl, let's try that again. Button.
Speaker 4: It's all that, Okay, the whole the whole thing is
Speaker 4: just like I'm getting a rattle on the snare and
Speaker 4: like it's really specific and like they're restarting the song
Speaker 4: like seven times and you're like, wow, I'm really like there.
Speaker 2: I mean, it is my dream actually to do what
Speaker 2: our producer kind of a boo is doing, to sit
Speaker 2: behind a board yeah and just press being like let's
Speaker 2: actually try the last song. Yeah, let's try Crying from
Speaker 2: Mothers Boo.
Speaker 4: I'd love if you did more knob fiddly and telling
Speaker 4: us to retake throughout the episode. But then this is
Speaker 4: why I love New York and it always surprises you.
Speaker 4: Because I saw Nev Campbell in line for the show
Speaker 4: that I was in.
Speaker 2: That's insane because it's like that is not a New
Speaker 2: York exciting No, like she is La.
Speaker 4: She looked amazing. She's amazing.
Speaker 2: See. Yeah, every time I'm in a pool, I do
Speaker 2: a Nev Campbell. She's so babysitter to me, like hot,
Speaker 2: she's hot babysitter because it's the brunette of it all.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, yeah, big naturals.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Do you think she had fake boobs seeing her? Or
Speaker 3: do you think they were?
Speaker 4: It was definitely in like a play blazer, so I
Speaker 4: really couldn't tell.
Speaker 3: You about Oh wait, what are you wearing right now?
Speaker 4: Steven?
Speaker 2: Speaking of playblazers, it was such an amazing interesting I.
Speaker 4: Was really called the iHeart Studio and I literally went
Speaker 4: hunting the food iHeart offices and found a girl's white
Speaker 4: Urban Outfitters cardigan that was on the back of her
Speaker 4: chair that was like an unmanned desk. And I really
Speaker 4: hope that she's not in the office and coming back today.
Speaker 2: No, and Stephen starts like panicked, looking at like girls chairs,
Speaker 2: being like, who can I like steal from? And this
Speaker 2: is why we have to watch out for gay men.
Speaker 4: Okay, Hyena, It's like this big window. If she walks
Speaker 4: by the booth and sees me in her urban outfitters
Speaker 4: white card again, like, it's gonna be so awkward, and
Speaker 4: she shivering, she's pounding on the window.
Speaker 2: And you're just like middle fingers.
Speaker 4: And then after a sign of Campbell, I went to
Speaker 4: this like cool speakeasy called Bar Central that's like behind
Speaker 4: an unmarked townhouse door. It's like a midtime establishment. And
Speaker 4: Karen Coulkin was there. Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, now he's New York.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's very New York.
Speaker 2: Mind you. The night before it's madness Monday night.
Speaker 4: Who did we see?
Speaker 3: Who did we see?
Speaker 4: At the same restaurant?
Speaker 2: Mother Christine Baranski, Ross Matthews on a date with his
Speaker 2: small husband, and Ross Matthews is looking small himself.
Speaker 4: Zempig down boots and then Michael Yuri.
Speaker 2: At a large dinner of friends.
Speaker 4: Yes, and I think it was a birthday because they
Speaker 4: brought over like some sort of cake. Yeah.
Speaker 2: One note about Ross Matthews, I actually think he's like
Speaker 2: pre ozempic thinned. I think he is like lap band.
Speaker 4: I saw an article about this, okay, because I was curious,
Speaker 4: and it was like Ross Matthews lost weight, not on ozempic,
Speaker 4: and I was like, because I do think that sounds
Speaker 4: like you lost them on.
Speaker 3: He's been thin for a while though in a pre
Speaker 3: ozempic way.
Speaker 4: But Osmpic's been out for like a year and a half.
Speaker 3: Now, that's what I'm saying for a while.
Speaker 2: I think he's been thin now for like time fly
Speaker 2: has band you three years?
Speaker 4: Lap band, classic, lap, classic lap. You know who hasn't
Speaker 4: had lap band surgery?
Speaker 2: My knowledge, no, he doesn't because he taught himself even
Speaker 2: as a out of shape teen you can run.
Speaker 4: But you can run, yes, And then by eighteen he
Speaker 4: was doing a three mile run in nineteen minutes, which
Speaker 4: is about like six twenty pm, which is pretty good.
Speaker 2: Anyway.
Speaker 3: You probably know who we're we're talking about. We're talking
Speaker 3: about none other childless cat Lady.
Speaker 4: The child is cat Lady himself. You know him from
Speaker 4: his epic run for vice president, which is currently ongoing.
Speaker 2: You know him from being an amazing Christian father, husband.
Speaker 4: For Marine Corps member, Ohio senator, former venture capitalist.
Speaker 3: Famous fake hillbilly.
Speaker 4: Some may say, ladies and gentlemen, we are talking about
Speaker 4: none other then J. D. Van and his Booklegy part
Speaker 4: of it.
Speaker 3: It's crazy because like this book is so.
Speaker 2: Twenty fifteen, I know, and yet here we are now
Speaker 2: and he's back in the vix.
Speaker 4: I mean, I will say, this election feels very twenty sixteen,
Speaker 4: so it's kind of like it doesn't really actually feel
Speaker 4: that off. It's like we are looping down boots.
Speaker 2: So we're bringing back the twenty fifteen of it all.
Speaker 4: It's literally the same. And like Kamala is being so
Speaker 4: Hillary and just like straight up heading for a loss.
Speaker 2: I guess my, you're always saying this, and it's like
Speaker 2: my thing about why it's so much more twenty twenty
Speaker 2: four is because Kamala is Camo and not doing wine glasses.
Speaker 2: That's the difference, Bet Camo. Kamala is brat and Camo.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've heard of this.
Speaker 4: What's the Camo as well?
Speaker 3: We got hello her Harris Walls, real tree hats.
Speaker 4: Oh the real tree hat. Okay, sorry.
Speaker 2: The twenty twenty four is Kamala doing real tree hats
Speaker 2: as opposed.
Speaker 4: To Yes, I know, they're a little bit more like
Speaker 4: self aware.
Speaker 2: And like Hillary was more like stemless glass ceiling. No.
Speaker 4: I mean, Kamala's not talking about the glass ceiling as
Speaker 4: much for sure, but she still is like running a
Speaker 4: campaign of like incredible vagueness Donald Donald, And we'll get
Speaker 4: into it. And I think there's still like basically this
Speaker 4: kind of same over confidence and like kind of coastal
Speaker 4: elite energy that's not going to be embraced by the
Speaker 4: people of Ohio.
Speaker 2: No, but we're about to get into our coastal elitism yea.
Speaker 2: And I can tell you're in your Kenny Chesney shirt.
Speaker 2: You're ready to you know what.
Speaker 4: I didn't even wear this like intentionally because like I'm
Speaker 4: just so real, I'm just so American that I throw on.
Speaker 2: It's just so funny because it's like here you are,
Speaker 2: You're trying to be country, and.
Speaker 4: Yet I wear a women's face.
Speaker 2: You know, my outfit actually today may look very coastal
Speaker 2: elite because.
Speaker 4: It's a dky vintage shirt that you got off of
Speaker 4: and I but.
Speaker 2: I'm actually wearing jeans made in fucking America from a
Speaker 2: North Carolina denim mill.
Speaker 3: So yeah, everyone just let that settle in. It's called oak.
Speaker 2: Cone Denim, oak Cone, oak Cone, and it is one
Speaker 2: of the last US denim factories.
Speaker 4: I'd love if you could get me a list of
Speaker 4: all the dnivities in the US on my desk.
Speaker 2: And I'm just like, oak Cone didn't come off it,
Speaker 2: Bill Billy Elergy, which.
Speaker 4: Is just so you're waiting for. I think what is
Speaker 4: is actually quite positive. The fact that Jade Vance is
Speaker 4: the vice posidential candidate right now is the fact that
Speaker 4: he's literally famous for writing a book. Well that will
Speaker 4: say Americans don't read, but it's like, it's very rare
Speaker 4: that we read a book on this podcast with someone
Speaker 4: who is famous for the book they wrote.
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's like, maybe, actually Kamala should have been Liz Gilbert,
Speaker 2: which would have been the answer to Hillbilly ellergy oh, someone.
Speaker 3: Famous for a book, Liz Gilbert and.
Speaker 4: Walls Gilbert Walls. That's like a landslide electoral college.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I just feel like she might have had
Speaker 2: more of a plan and honestly may have been more
Speaker 2: hashtag brave, hashtag wild.
Speaker 4: Okay, so yeah, Soilly Elergy, you remember the book came out.
Speaker 4: I mean I think, like you really see in this book,
Speaker 4: which we will talk about. Yeah, like his transformation to
Speaker 4: like pro trumpert is so cynical, and it is like, right, it's.
Speaker 2: So like Facin said, Yeah, his whole thing is like
Speaker 2: my grandparents tried to escape Appalachia to give us a
Speaker 2: better life, but actually we were just in like abandoned
Speaker 2: industrial suburban America and we all donision to her when
Speaker 2: and it's rust belt and so so it's kind of
Speaker 2: like I'll do whatever I can to become the coastal
Speaker 2: elites I resent while I can still claim being a hillbilly. Yes,
Speaker 2: when if you go on you know, Appalachia read it.
Speaker 2: They don't claim him.
Speaker 4: No, And he basically became super embraced by liberals and
Speaker 4: conservatives when this book came out as like being the
Speaker 4: Appalachia whisperer and being like mister Sage white trash right,
Speaker 4: like who knows all about like poor white people and
Speaker 4: why they would have for Trump and ever Room was
Speaker 4: just like oh so interesting, fascinating, And you know you
Speaker 4: see that in the book, the way that like coastal
Speaker 4: elites look at him as like an object of the
Speaker 4: nation when he goes to Yale and like he still
Speaker 4: is that for people, or was until he became.
Speaker 3: Like so childless cat lady.
Speaker 4: So like this pro Trump like running for Senate and
Speaker 4: you can.
Speaker 3: See it in the blurbs. There's so many blurbs.
Speaker 2: The movie was directed by like Ron Howard, like the
Speaker 2: most like Hilary Codd director. I would say, it's like Americana.
Speaker 4: We'll get into the movie and yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Feel like it's lucky what this book did for like
Speaker 2: gen X to boomer liberals, it like gave them an
Speaker 2: excuse to believe what they believe that like Southerners are
Speaker 2: white trash. Yeah, and they were like, oh, but this
Speaker 2: guy is from this area, so I also can say right.
Speaker 4: And it's like the whole thing is like Cols elites
Speaker 4: look at the middle of the country with mostly disdain,
Speaker 4: and like they can pick up on the parts of
Speaker 4: this book that allow you to look at poor people
Speaker 4: with disdain, but.
Speaker 2: They can say they read the book and they're like,
Speaker 2: it's a really interesting story.
Speaker 4: Because actually I think a lot of this book is
Speaker 4: very middle of the roads. You could see this book,
Speaker 4: like most of what he says in this book coming
Speaker 4: from Bill Clinton or Michelle Obama or anyone. And it's
Speaker 4: like there's like a bootstrappiness to him, which is like,
Speaker 4: you know, basically like right center conservative, but like there's
Speaker 4: also a lot of ways you could draw conclusion from
Speaker 4: the book that are pretty like pro status and pro
Speaker 4: like let's have more government support for like these various demographics.
Speaker 2: Which is what he said his mema is basically like
Speaker 2: he was like one day she'd be like basically like
Speaker 2: a Marxist, and like the next day she'd be like
Speaker 2: the most like insane conservative. Where it's like, I mean,
Speaker 2: this book is also very just like already so made
Speaker 2: for him to be a politician because it's talking about
Speaker 2: the most random story in the most random town where
Speaker 2: he's like, and I once worked at a tile factory
Speaker 2: in Tuckaluca, Ohio, and a man it's always a man
Speaker 2: I talked to. It's like never like his friend and
Speaker 2: he's like, and this guy he took really long bathroom breaks. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that's because our generation they do not want to
Speaker 2: work like my parents' generation.
Speaker 4: You know, because it dovetails. It's so crazy. This immigration
Speaker 4: story is focusing on Ohio, where he's from, but like
Speaker 4: the whole thing about the town in Ohio that's like
Speaker 4: has so many Haitian immigrants. Is it's like there is
Speaker 4: all this resentment from the poor working class white people
Speaker 4: who are so Hillbilies and they're so math and like
Speaker 4: they're either like so obese or like so creepily thin
Speaker 4: and wearing a big T shirt, like and they're all
Speaker 4: just being like these Haitians are taken our jobs, and
Speaker 4: like the Haitians like are like getting these like new
Speaker 4: factory jobs that are coming back.
Speaker 2: But like I gut JD's point, which I think is true.
Speaker 2: He's just like the white people don't want those jobs
Speaker 2: and they're not wing.
Speaker 4: And that's true, Like he's right about that. But it's
Speaker 4: like those are bad jobs. And this is I think
Speaker 4: we're all call out the liberal New York Times for
Speaker 4: being like these are wonderful jobs. Oh yeah, and it's
Speaker 4: like they barely pay minimum wage, like they're not this book. Also,
Speaker 4: imigrants are desperate.
Speaker 2: For like moms just learning that like maybe hold on,
Speaker 2: we shouldn't send all of our kids to like really
Speaker 2: expensive colleges and being like we need to like send
Speaker 2: them back to trade school.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's the classic like middle of the
Speaker 4: world Republican things. Yeah, re election cycle to be like
Speaker 4: what about vocational.
Speaker 3: Trade, what about trade school?
Speaker 4: What about TVVC are repair?
Speaker 2: What about hvacs?
Speaker 4: Why aren't there? Why are we not opening more HVAC schools?
Speaker 3: Open the HVAC schools now.
Speaker 4: No, but obviously everyone doesn't need to be a lawyer.
Speaker 3: No, and also not everyone in Ohio.
Speaker 2: It also like allows like coastally white people to be like, oh,
Speaker 2: poor white people in Ohio, you should be like grateful
Speaker 2: to like go back to like the Tamu factory.
Speaker 4: Oh exactly. And the fact that like China is straight
Speaker 4: up now opening Tamu factories in Ohio. It's just like, girl,
Speaker 4: that's not good, like they are making us they're China
Speaker 4: now because they're just being like, oh the labors sheep here.
Speaker 2: Right, Which I did want to kind of call it
Speaker 2: how the Key misses and he loves like his childhood
Speaker 2: at like in Kentucky at the Lakes and how like
Speaker 2: Middletown like didn't do that firm and like in the movie,
Speaker 2: like he's catching a turtle and like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're swimming at a swamp and.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's all this like nature idealism. And then no,
Speaker 4: mention of the environmental destruction of or of all the
Speaker 4: steel factories and like cancer poisoning that's going on, and the.
Speaker 2: Life expensy of these like white working class communities is
Speaker 2: actually sixty four because they're eating Pillsbury and doing meth
Speaker 2: And it's like, well, what about all the coal that
Speaker 2: has like just families.
Speaker 4: Since conveniently loves to ignore a lot of like structural
Speaker 4: societal things that are happening in like kind of seemingly
Speaker 4: put it all on like personal responsibility. At the same time, though,
Speaker 4: as you read the book, you're like, he's basically describing
Speaker 4: a culture that's very hard to get out of, and
Speaker 4: he's saying that it's like all your fault. It's not
Speaker 4: all your fault, Like there is this schizophy.
Speaker 2: He has a side if it's not all your fault,
Speaker 2: which is like nice to hear, but then he will
Speaker 2: be which some culture criticism, which I do think is
Speaker 2: true about how like we all need big TV's and
Speaker 2: going to debt on buying big TV's.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, no, any mean.
Speaker 2: He has like a classic just like in nineties like
Speaker 2: punk honestly whatever, just like we all go out and
Speaker 2: use our harder money to go to the mall on
Speaker 2: Saturday and then are in debt by next Thursday.
Speaker 4: Yeah, back to something you were just saying. I love that.
Speaker 3: It's a lot of.
Speaker 4: Like thirty times, it's just hard because it's like.
Speaker 2: You're like, wait, how do we talk about Scotch Irish immigration?
Speaker 4: No, I mean all these issues are on top of
Speaker 4: the charge. And you know what the problem is with
Speaker 4: the has campaign.
Speaker 3: We're not having this conversation.
Speaker 4: This conversation being to us to have this conversation. But
Speaker 4: I think that it's like, you know, getting back to
Speaker 4: HVAC school.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's get back to trade school.
Speaker 4: There's this at the very end of the book he
Speaker 4: kind of like gets into policy prescriptions a little bit
Speaker 4: and he's like, I'm basically like a conservative, but like
Speaker 4: I like moderate because he's like, I'm a modern conservative
Speaker 4: and like I think that like we shouldn't like have cps,
Speaker 4: like putting every kinto foster care and not letting them
Speaker 4: live with grandparents, and like, yeah, he's totally right, and
Speaker 4: there is like this way in which probably get totally
Speaker 4: mired into this like the legal system and they've got
Speaker 4: he says, like you've got a court date hanging over
Speaker 4: your head like a guillotine all the time.
Speaker 2: I was reading an interesting article about CPS the other
Speaker 2: day where it's like it is better for like, you know,
Speaker 2: our fucked up system and like for them to put
Speaker 2: like a child in foster care because it would be
Speaker 2: too expensive to do any more childcare classes for the
Speaker 2: actual parents.
Speaker 4: Right, But they don't let you stay with like an
Speaker 4: aunt or something. No, they put you in like foster care,
Speaker 4: and like oftentimes like evation, it's like you do have
Speaker 4: a more extended family, and it is often black and
Speaker 4: Latino and hillbilly white families who are more extended boots,
Speaker 4: whereas it's like more it's more not musical family. He's nuclear.
Speaker 4: But he has this thing where he's like, oh, like
Speaker 4: actually Europe is like better randomly, Oh.
Speaker 3: I was surprised by that because I was wondering if
Speaker 3: he was gonna mention that.
Speaker 4: He like admits that basically like Europe has like more
Speaker 4: of a legitimate meritocracy where there is more social mobility,
Speaker 4: and it's like there are reasons for that, Like it's
Speaker 4: literally about healthcare.
Speaker 3: I no, I was a little like schools, Yeah, healthcare, food.
Speaker 4: There's a really interesting book I haven't read called the
Speaker 4: Meritocracy myth that I recommend you guys pick up, but
Speaker 4: in it, the author one of its points is that
Speaker 4: it's like Europe doesn't have like Harvard's and Yales in
Speaker 4: the same way, like super elite schools that produce people
Speaker 4: like jd Vance who go on to make a gazillion
Speaker 4: dollge with Peter Thiel and then went for office like
Speaker 4: they have like a lot of mid schools, but like
Speaker 4: that overall produces like more just like happy normal like
Speaker 4: successful people for sure.
Speaker 2: Than just like the desire and just like happy I
Speaker 2: have to go to the top six.
Speaker 4: Right, like one person having this incredibly rare, rare chance
Speaker 4: to like escape poverty and go to the top school
Speaker 4: by like impressing people by being like a fascinating object.
Speaker 2: I was thinking about that because I was like immigration
Speaker 2: of like white immigration, because I was like, Okay, I
Speaker 2: do feel like my dad has like had the kind
Speaker 2: of like urban jd Vance story of like, okay, son
Speaker 2: of immigrants, came from nothing, went to community college and
Speaker 2: then like talked his way into Yale. Yeah, with good grades.
Speaker 4: I mean that's so Jadvance and it's such a life, right.
Speaker 2: And I feel like I kind of like scoffed at this,
Speaker 2: But I feel like my dad was always just being like, no,
Speaker 2: they were being so like I've never met an Italian
Speaker 2: American in like nineteen seventy five, but I'm wondering if
Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, Italians.
Speaker 4: Are more just like and now you're going into the
Speaker 4: racial determinism of the advance and being like Scots Irish.
Speaker 2: I went on a deep Scotch Irish thing because I
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, it's like if I'm of Irish descent, aren't.
Speaker 4: You Scott's Irish? No is Scotts Irish something different than yeah,
Speaker 4: just Scottish and Irish.
Speaker 3: So I'm Irish Catholic.
Speaker 2: So it's like I think those people were coming from
Speaker 2: County Cork and then coming to New York City, which
Speaker 2: even if like they were poor in New York City,
Speaker 2: I think it's like they're already set up to be
Speaker 2: more like coastal Elitis and becomes like cops and firemen
Speaker 2: and stuff like that and have union jobs.
Speaker 4: Exactly.
Speaker 3: We're like maybe a firehouse rip.
Speaker 2: Nine to eleven. You are getting like lung cancer from that,
Speaker 2: but like it's a little less like coal mine.
Speaker 3: Yeah, even though my.
Speaker 2: Dad always says he thinks his father like did become
Speaker 2: a little mentally disabled from the factory fumes. I'm sure,
Speaker 2: but Scotch Irish is and just actually Scottish people who
Speaker 2: left Scotland to go to Ireland and were Presbyterian and
Speaker 2: are much more like Scottish like and if.
Speaker 4: They were like just want to get away from the English, Yeah,
Speaker 4: we've all been there, right and just for contacts. Like
Speaker 4: the very beginning of the book, he like, as part
Speaker 4: of his thesis that he's laying out, he goes, I
Speaker 4: may be white, but I don't identify with wasps of
Speaker 4: the Northeast, and said, identify with the millions of working
Speaker 4: class white Americans of Scott's Irish descent who have no
Speaker 4: college degree. To these folks, poverty is the family tradition.
Speaker 4: Their ancestors were day laborers in the southern slave economy,
Speaker 4: sharecroppers after that, coal miners after that, and machinists and
Speaker 4: mill workers during more recent times. Americans call them hillbillies, rednecks,
Speaker 4: or white trash. I call them neighbors, friends and family.
Speaker 4: So there's this kind of like we are this race
Speaker 4: of people who is like this.
Speaker 2: And it says They're literally known for their traits of loyalty,
Speaker 2: family pride, eagerness to fight, and self sustainability. So like
Speaker 2: dog breed discrimination, No, don't know, and it's this are
Speaker 2: you are you ready? This is not a site that's
Speaker 2: so Westminster. It's called like go Foxburg dot com. And
Speaker 2: it's all about much.
Speaker 4: Some creepytown like in the middle of Virginia. I have
Speaker 4: no idea, but.
Speaker 2: It's basically being more like, Okay, these are kind of
Speaker 2: more game of thronesy ancestral people who are being like
Speaker 2: got out of Macastle and then we're like, ooh, Appalachia
Speaker 2: looks like Scotland, let's go there.
Speaker 4: Well, And of course a lot of European bents went
Speaker 4: to places in the Americas that were similar in climate
Speaker 4: and landscaped where they were from. Of course, as we know,
Speaker 4: Scandinavians went into the Midwest Midwest where it was called Burr.
Speaker 1: Club.
Speaker 3: And I feel like j D to the whole like
Speaker 3: dog breed, like scotch Irish sing of it all.
Speaker 2: He's always like trying to prove in this book, like
Speaker 2: how he's such a like scotch Irish hillbilly who like
Speaker 2: flies off the seed.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he wants you to know about his like wildly
Speaker 4: untamed masculinity constantly and how like honor matters. It's very
Speaker 4: eye for an eye, and like it's a very violent
Speaker 4: culture and everyone's like killing each other all the time,
Speaker 4: even though his.
Speaker 3: Vibe is very just like middle manager like office space.
Speaker 2: Yeah, trifit, Polo, because.
Speaker 4: There's this scene in the movie where he almost beats up.
Speaker 2: This guy who's like a heroin outic that his mom
Speaker 2: is dating.
Speaker 4: And when when he's like an adult now and he's
Speaker 4: like going back to help his mom, and then he
Speaker 4: like realizes that he should and then in the book
Speaker 4: there's that scene later on in the car with this.
Speaker 2: A couple of years ago, I was driving in Cincinnati
Speaker 2: with Usha when somebody cut me off. I humped the
Speaker 2: guy flipped me off, and when we stopped at a
Speaker 2: red light with this guy in front of me, I
Speaker 2: unbuckled my seat belt and opened the car door. I
Speaker 2: planned to demand an apology and fight the guy if necessary,
Speaker 2: but my common sense prevailed and I shut the door
Speaker 2: before I got out of the car. Usha was delighted
Speaker 2: that I changed my mind before she yielded me to
Speaker 2: stop acting like a lunatic just happened in the past.
Speaker 2: She told me that she was proud of me for
Speaker 2: resisting my natural instinct, and he wants to make it
Speaker 2: this thing of being like, I'm this wild beast of
Speaker 2: an untamed man who's like instinct is to go fight,
Speaker 2: when I honestly think he is like probably like a
Speaker 2: pretty calm guy who has some outbursts.
Speaker 4: I get that. I don't think that he is like
Speaker 4: such like an alcoholic who beats his wife. No, like
Speaker 4: most of the other men that he talks the community
Speaker 4: that he is referencing. There is a lot of violence
Speaker 4: in this book, and if you haven't seen the movie,
Speaker 4: it's completely insane. You should see it.
Speaker 3: But it's Amy Adams.
Speaker 4: It's Amy Adams and Glenn Close, like that's really trying
Speaker 4: to get oscars.
Speaker 2: I think was this the turn when Amy Adams was like, wait,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna stop being in rom coms and I'm going
Speaker 2: to start like playing like alcoholics slash heroin.
Speaker 4: Adams already turned at that point.
Speaker 3: Okay, she'd had a sharper Objects had already come out.
Speaker 4: And the Dennis Vanov movie What's it called Arrival? I
Speaker 4: feel like that was before then too.
Speaker 2: Oh, and the fighter.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she was already she.
Speaker 3: Was already well on her way to be like, get
Speaker 3: the fuck out of my house.
Speaker 4: This movie come out till twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Right, we watched it on Thanksgiving COVID.
Speaker 4: Yeah, fell asleep. We fell asleep during COVID Thanksgiving. But
Speaker 4: like very early on in the book, he's selling stories,
Speaker 4: like you know, about his family. Once, when a truck
Speaker 4: driver delivered supplies to one of Uncle Pet's business, he
Speaker 4: told my old hillbilly Uncle, offload this now, you son
Speaker 4: of a bitch. Uncle Pet took the comment literally, when
Speaker 4: you say that, you're calling my dear old mother a bitch,
Speaker 4: so I'd kindly ask you speak more carefully. When the driver,
Speaker 4: nicknamed Big Red because of his size and hair color,
Speaker 4: repeated the insult, Uncle Pet did what any rational business
Speaker 4: owner would do. He pulled the man from his truck,
Speaker 4: beat him unconscious, and ran an electric saw up and
Speaker 4: down his body. Big Red merely bled to death, but
Speaker 4: was rushed to the hospital and survived. Uncle Pet never
Speaker 4: went to jail, though apparently Big Red was also an
Speaker 4: Appalachian man, and he refused to speak to the police
Speaker 4: about the incident. Of press charges he knew what it
Speaker 4: meant to insult a man's mother, Sorry, to run an
Speaker 4: electric saw up and down someone's body, How does that
Speaker 4: not results in death?
Speaker 3: Me when I couldn't get into the myth mag party.
Speaker 4: Hid with the saw.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he goes between like idolizing the like hillbilly nature
Speaker 2: and romanticizing it and then also being like, and the
Speaker 2: reason he was so violent is because he didn't go
Speaker 2: to his factory job as much as he should.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know that violence to me is terrifying and
Speaker 4: kind of negative in this way. And he talks about
Speaker 4: how like the grandpa is bad for like being abusive
Speaker 4: to the grandma, to Mima his famous Bema played by
Speaker 4: Glenn Clothes the movie, but like the uncle's not bad
Speaker 4: for running a chainsopp and on someone's body. And then
Speaker 4: like you know, it's like, oh, then we all killed
Speaker 4: this man who was rumored to have like molested a
Speaker 4: girl in the village, and like no one went to
Speaker 4: jail for it, and that's just hillbilly justice.
Speaker 2: Well, his other hillbilly justice thing is he's like, well,
Speaker 2: like everyone would like beat up guys that like were
Speaker 2: disrespectful to my mom when they were just dating.
Speaker 4: But then like once your family, once your.
Speaker 2: Family, and dating, like all the bulls go out drinking
Speaker 2: together and like they defend the man. It's kind of
Speaker 2: like once you're married, the husband can beat the wife.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's just kind of boys will be your
Speaker 4: own and blood is blood.
Speaker 2: Blood is blood. And don't you ever talk bad about
Speaker 2: your sister, you.
Speaker 4: Know, and to some extent, I do think blood is blood.
Speaker 4: I know you're my family, my family. I would defend
Speaker 4: you to the death. As Bethany Frankel recently said on TikTok,
Speaker 4: if there was a decaying body wrapped in duct tape
Speaker 4: in my backyard, I have a lot of friends who
Speaker 4: wouldn't ask any questions. That's the kind of friends you.
Speaker 3: Need, truly, no questions, no questions. I would wait.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Maya actually asked me that the other week. She
Speaker 2: was like, what would you do if Stephen murdered someone?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: Did she ask? What?
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 2: Asked that she's always we were watching obviously like a
Speaker 2: murder doll, because it's just always and it was like
Speaker 2: someone's best friend and they were being interviewed. Okay, it
Speaker 2: was nowhere, No, it was kind of we were watching
Speaker 2: something the situation. We're both kind of being like wait,
Speaker 2: like what would you do? Right, And I said, I
Speaker 2: would totally still be your friend, thank you. Yeah right,
Speaker 2: I don't think I would snitch if it was serial
Speaker 2: killer stuff.
Speaker 4: Right, if the bodies were piling up and I was
Speaker 4: being so creepy about.
Speaker 2: It it was a serial killer dog where it was
Speaker 2: so like twelve bodies, like I feel like if it
Speaker 2: was one, yeah, I would be like, I'm not snitching
Speaker 2: it was one the crazy stuff happened. Yeah, if it
Speaker 2: was going to go ahead and be like fourteen to
Speaker 2: twenty bodies across the Northeast Corridor, and you would be like,
Speaker 2: I think we'll get to that when we.
Speaker 4: Get there, thank you for giving me the grace. No,
Speaker 4: you would be so Ashton and Mila writing a letter
Speaker 4: to like support any masters.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like he's an amazing man, yeah, like asking
Speaker 2: for lenience. This is a great segue, is because I
Speaker 2: want to talk about kind of his relationship with women,
Speaker 2: where it's like he says, basically whenever he talks about
Speaker 2: the mom's a bad boyfriends or he's like, it's never
Speaker 2: that I did I didn't like.
Speaker 3: The husband or boyfriend, like it was that like he
Speaker 3: was just another one.
Speaker 4: Well, it's so funny because as I was listening to
Speaker 4: this book, my boyfriend who's from the Midwest and as
Speaker 4: a child of divorce and like moved around with his
Speaker 4: mom a lot, and like he was always referring to
Speaker 4: his almost dads. And there's one point in the book
Speaker 4: where GD was just like, you know, it wasn't that
Speaker 4: I disliked these guys. It was just the fact that
Speaker 4: I knew it wasn't gonna last. And here she was
Speaker 4: again promising me the world and saying everything was going
Speaker 4: to be better, and we move in with this new guy,
Speaker 4: and then I knew it was I was just gonna
Speaker 4: have to pick up and do it all over it again.
Speaker 4: It was the instability, and Chase was just like, wow,
Speaker 4: say that part again. Like when we were watching the
Speaker 4: movie and like there's that scene where she's like, oh no,
Speaker 4: I'm not marrying Jim. I'm marrying Ken. Marrying Ken, my
Speaker 4: boss from the Daralysis Center, And he was just like, wow,
Speaker 4: this is so my mom.
Speaker 3: The JD kid is like, wait, you broke up with Matt.
Speaker 3: She was like, obviously, I'm marrying Ken.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: By the way, Ken's house.
Speaker 4: Was of like cheek, oh yeah, it's like so mid
Speaker 4: century and like wooden and low.
Speaker 2: And like cool posters and is like like framed.
Speaker 4: Corvette poster on the wood wall. For sure, Mama. I
Speaker 4: was like, wait, Ken's got it going on. Then she
Speaker 4: leaves Ken, but yeah, so it's like that instills But
Speaker 4: I don't know if that instills such a distrust of women.
Speaker 2: I mean he.
Speaker 3: Obviously has like grown to like hate women.
Speaker 4: Oh because you think the childless cat ladies. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: feel like that's so like this just being more like
Speaker 4: I'm the new online right, just saying the word longhouse
Speaker 4: a lot, Right, he knows, because I think he's actually
Speaker 4: kind of a cuckow. Sorry, like his us. His vibe
Speaker 4: is cup with that. And he was like and very
Speaker 4: much like Tim Waltz, like he's so like I married
Speaker 4: up and like very like Dug dun cough, like like
Speaker 4: look at this, look at this gorgeous you know what
Speaker 4: I mean. He's just like I'm just happy to be here,
Speaker 4: Like that's his vibe.
Speaker 2: Well, I think he is a wife guy and he's
Speaker 2: yeah's but I think he's trying to prove himself to
Speaker 2: the like two big bearded hillbilly, right, duck Hunter guys.
Speaker 4: I don't think it's the duck hunter guys. He's trying
Speaker 4: to prove himself to I think it is.
Speaker 3: More like just creating powder guys.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's more just like the four chan online New Right,
Speaker 4: which is just like says that, like the Long House
Speaker 4: is all about like women, like trying to DEI you
Speaker 4: into like you know, boredom.
Speaker 3: And like, well, I mean he did literally does say
Speaker 3: in here, which I do think is true.
Speaker 2: That's what happened. He was like to quote schoolwork is
Speaker 2: for faggots, which is like.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I love that part, which is kind of true. No,
Speaker 4: it is, and like that is a cultural psycho we
Speaker 4: need to break and in order for men success.
Speaker 3: Which then goes to the workplaces for women, which is also.
Speaker 4: Also true true period, And that's.
Speaker 3: That's why you're wearing like women's.
Speaker 4: I mean chicks and so that's and he's like kind
Speaker 4: of cynically, I think, like parodying that kind of threat.
Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, he's absolutely a
Speaker 4: wife guy.
Speaker 3: He's a wife guy.
Speaker 2: But I'm just like, does he actually believe his kind
Speaker 2: of abortion views or is he just doing it because
Speaker 2: he knows that's what it's gonna work.
Speaker 4: I think he's definitely like anti woke, you know, but
Speaker 4: like I think a lot of his shift towards the
Speaker 4: Trump side of the Republican Party has been like wildly
Speaker 4: cynical and opportunistic, right, and like just.
Speaker 2: To get fucking elected.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Usha's like, I mean, if you work with
Speaker 4: Peter Teel, like he has this like libertarian I think
Speaker 4: like viewpoint and like you can see the kind of
Speaker 4: schizophrenic economic perspective where he's like, we need to like
Speaker 4: help mothers, but also the need to help themselves, and
Speaker 4: it's like Europe is amazing, but we shouldn't do anything
Speaker 4: that Europe is doing.
Speaker 2: Like No, and he's been like and like actually, like
Speaker 2: all these women are having like children at like sixteen
Speaker 2: by their uncles, but actually those children are beautiful.
Speaker 4: Or Trump doesn't believe what he's saying about. Yeah, And
Speaker 4: it's also not being like we're paying for your iv
Speaker 4: if it's beautiful, we're doing beautiful IV We're.
Speaker 2: Doing beautiful IVF. We're doing abortions in the third year.
Speaker 4: Yeah. No, I mean no, he also thinks his sister's hot.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. He wants to fuck his sister.
Speaker 2: He wants to kill his mother. This is what leads
Speaker 2: me to him being like I feel like the hatred
Speaker 2: of women.
Speaker 4: I mean, the mother does try to kill him.
Speaker 3: The mother tries to kill No, I'm saying it's.
Speaker 4: Not I'm just saying I think he's more of a
Speaker 4: wife guy, and I think he's more.
Speaker 3: Like No when the whole movie is him like cutting
Speaker 3: peppers with Usha.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they're definitely like doing that, like I don't.
Speaker 2: And the end of the book is him being like
Speaker 2: I was worried, but I reminded myself that the next
Speaker 2: day I was able to go grocery shopping with Usha
Speaker 2: and then we would cook a nice meal together.
Speaker 4: Like Netflix, Netflix and Hill of the end of the book. Okay,
Speaker 4: he becomes a creationist. They don't let him listen to
Speaker 4: Eric Clapton, and this is why I'm saying, And I
Speaker 4: don't think that he legitimately believes like anything. He a
Speaker 4: lot of what he is.
Speaker 3: I don't think he does, because he listens to Black Sabbath.
Speaker 4: Yes, and he is like basically making fun of evangelicals
Speaker 4: for being insane and like the War on Christmas, because
Speaker 4: this whole part where he like converts to like creationism
Speaker 4: in his teens or his dad, and then he's just like, uh,
Speaker 4: this is weird and random. As a young teenager thinking
Speaker 4: seriously for the first time about what I believe and
Speaker 4: why I believe it, I had acute sense that the
Speaker 4: walls were closing on real Christians. There was all this
Speaker 4: talk about the War on Christmas, which as far as
Speaker 4: I could tell, consists of mainly e vasical EU activistsuing
Speaker 4: small towns for Nativity displays. All of us talk about
Speaker 4: Christians who aren't Christian enough, secular certain doctrine in our youth,
Speaker 4: art exhibits insulting our faith. Persecution by the elites made
Speaker 4: the world a scary and forum place. Take gay rights
Speaker 4: so particularly hot topic. I'll never forget the time of
Speaker 4: convince myself I was gay. Oh wait, this part's actually
Speaker 4: wait fun. I was eight or and I maybe younger,
Speaker 4: and I ssembled upon a broadcast by some fire and
Speaker 4: Brimstone preacher. But like you can see, there's like this
Speaker 4: sarcasm where he's like, these people are crazy and they're
Speaker 4: obsessed with these social issues that are actually completely relevant.
Speaker 4: The man spoke about the evils of homosexuals, how they
Speaker 4: infiltrate our society. The same time, the only thing I
Speaker 4: knew about gay men was that they preferred men to women.
Speaker 4: This described me perfectly. I disliked girls, and my best
Speaker 4: friend in the world was my old buddy Bill. Oh no,
Speaker 4: I'm going to hell. I broached this issue with Mama,
Speaker 4: confessing that I was gay, and I was worried that
Speaker 4: I would burn in hell. She said, don't be a
Speaker 4: fucking idiot. How would you know that you're gay? I
Speaker 4: explained my thought process. Mima chuckled and seemed to consider
Speaker 4: how she might explain to a boy my age. Finally,
Speaker 4: she said, jd do you want to suck dix? I
Speaker 4: was flabbergasted. Why would someone want to do that? She
Speaker 4: repeated herself, and I said, of course not. Then she said,
Speaker 4: you're not gay. I mean, if you do want to
Speaker 4: suck dicks, that would be okay. God would still love you.
Speaker 2: She's mother, She is mother, Do you want to suck dix?
Speaker 4: Mema for President? But it's like, well, there's another.
Speaker 2: Altar line in it where she's like, He's like, well,
Speaker 2: Mema is Christian, but he's like, but she never goes
Speaker 2: to church.
Speaker 3: And actually a lot of hill people don't go to church.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she just like watches like the seven hundred Club
Speaker 4: and like listens to it.
Speaker 3: Right, she being so like Tamy Fay.
Speaker 4: Okay, I do think in this because he basically admits
Speaker 4: where he's like, I don't like women, I like boys.
Speaker 4: I like men. It's like that is straight guys. Okay.
Speaker 4: I don't think he like hates hates. He hates women
Speaker 4: in a normal Strake eye way, which is like they
Speaker 4: value their friendships with men on a much deeper intellectual
Speaker 4: level than they do with women, and they mostly see
Speaker 4: women as like moms, mom's sisters, cousins, something to defend
Speaker 4: their honor or like something to fuck. But it's like
Speaker 4: it's not equal. It's not equal, and it's not on the.
Speaker 2: Like skir which is crazy even for me to be like, wait,
Speaker 2: men women are equal. Like it's like reading this book
Speaker 2: it makes like you feel so you're like, wait, no,
Speaker 2: it's nineteen seventy five. I'm wearing pants like men and
Speaker 2: women are equal.
Speaker 4: JD.
Speaker 2: Wait, the way he talks about his sisters, he's always
Speaker 2: just like she's the most amazing woman ever.
Speaker 4: I mean, the sister is the saint.
Speaker 2: And I googled her like she is hot and she's
Speaker 2: still hot, and she works for a six coaching center.
Speaker 4: Is the mom's alive.
Speaker 2: Yes, and she's been sober for ten years.
Speaker 4: She was at the R and C and she is
Speaker 4: she looks like someone who is a former addict.
Speaker 3: I think because she is like now heavier, she looks
Speaker 3: less addict.
Speaker 2: Good for her.
Speaker 4: I mean she looks so little.
Speaker 3: No, she doesn't have like that.
Speaker 2: Gaunt, big T shirt, big eyes like former meth addict.
Speaker 2: It's a little more just like big grandma with like
Speaker 2: feathered hair coals.
Speaker 4: Wait, I love the part where she she has the
Speaker 4: closeted lesbian from Tammy. She's like, the only reason your
Speaker 4: nastemy is because you want to fuck me, And.
Speaker 2: This is wet.
Speaker 3: Also, the mom has tried to kill herself. After Peapo dies.
Speaker 2: He's like, so she's yelling at me, She's yelling at
Speaker 2: me macas and then she turns to her lesbian front
Speaker 2: and he is being so like her very nice lesbian friend.
Speaker 2: Yeah he's actually okay, there's no one actually more nineties
Speaker 2: lesbian porn than jd.
Speaker 4: Oh, Like he watches lesbian porn.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just I feel like in this really like nineties
Speaker 2: girl on girl way, yeah you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: That's so like Polo Khakis.
Speaker 3: Poor made for men, just like two too.
Speaker 4: Hot make with long nails.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, yeah he's being like Wow, I.
Speaker 4: Could see him being more into that now though now
Speaker 4: he's watching more like pov porn. That's like suicide girls.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess, like more like Cammy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's super cam girl, and like I.
Speaker 2: Feel like he was firing up of H ninety stuff
Speaker 2: if you know you ye. The other amazing like lesbian
Speaker 2: mentioned when he's talking about his crew of Yale friends
Speaker 2: and how like diverse they were, and again he is
Speaker 2: being so like politician. He's like one amazing smart African
Speaker 2: American man, one Indian man, and one extremely.
Speaker 4: Hilarious progressive lesbian.
Speaker 2: Progressive lesbian.
Speaker 4: We could all break bread together, and that's the beauty
Speaker 4: of the American dream.
Speaker 2: Okay, his marines the line he goes still to this day,
Speaker 2: I only will watch Saving Private Ryan with very close
Speaker 2: friends because I will solve.
Speaker 4: And it's like, sorry, let me guess they're male friends.
Speaker 3: Exactly.
Speaker 2: What's the situation where not that good friends at Private Ryan?
Speaker 3: Hey man, A couple of us are going over to bills.
Speaker 4: It's like, Yo, what work events evolve? Ryan? Well maybe
Speaker 4: he means though, like it's like Christmas time watch a
Speaker 4: movie with your family, Like, oh, do you guys want
Speaker 4: to watch Saving Private Ryan?
Speaker 3: Like tonight He's like, no, nope, not tonight.
Speaker 4: I can't do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. His time in the Marines, and of course God
Speaker 2: bless our troops, but he did kind of have the
Speaker 2: gayer job of the Marines.
Speaker 4: Oh I die. Okay, he's like the media consultant for
Speaker 4: the base.
Speaker 3: I'm in media Marines.
Speaker 4: That's loterally the gayest job you can get. A sign.
Speaker 4: He's even gayer than like mail room.
Speaker 2: No, because it's like you're talking about magazines and press
Speaker 2: and interviews.
Speaker 4: And he was just like and I learned how to
Speaker 4: like schedule interviews.
Speaker 2: And he was like here, I was comfortable talking in
Speaker 2: front of reporters, diplomats, presidents, soldiers.
Speaker 4: He's like, but then one time, by accident, I showed
Speaker 4: a classified plane camera that I wasn't supposed to do.
Speaker 2: Because he has this whole like you know, like where
Speaker 2: he learns to become a man, which is also just
Speaker 2: like fatherhood and like it is beautiful and like some
Speaker 2: sergeant takes him to like the car dealership to like
Speaker 2: get a car loan, and he's like, actually, you should
Speaker 2: call the Navy Federal bank to get a better day.
Speaker 4: And this is another one of his sort of paraballs
Speaker 4: about response ability but also about the value of like
Speaker 4: a network. And again this is where it's like it
Speaker 4: becomes contradictor where he's saying like I was able to
Speaker 4: do this because I had helpful people, and it's like, well, yeah,
Speaker 4: that's and.
Speaker 3: You actually literally had government help.
Speaker 4: Was literally government help. You had someone from the government
Speaker 4: telling you not to take a shitty life, and.
Speaker 2: Also joined a government bank and Navy credit union. So
Speaker 2: make it makes sense, mama. It makes sense me, mom.
Speaker 2: And he's like, we would eat so fast and like
Speaker 2: cut our hair short, and like once a marine was like,
Speaker 2: if you're not vomiting by of this run, like you're
Speaker 2: not working out, and he's like, and then we got
Speaker 2: to a RAQ and I was sent to the media room,
Speaker 2: but like I learned and he's like, and actually, we're
Speaker 2: doing super respectful stuff over there.
Speaker 4: Right, And he was like so mad at like some
Speaker 4: pipsqueak in his like Yale freshman class, who has being
Speaker 4: such a coastal elitist and was just like like slaughtering
Speaker 4: in all the army, Like people who joined the army
Speaker 4: are dumb and that's why there are such like brutes
Speaker 4: over there, like killing civilians. And he was like, that's
Speaker 4: so fucked up, and it's like, well, they definitely are killing.
Speaker 2: He was being so fucking pleasant Villa about it, being
Speaker 2: like we were just bringing candy and hard drives to children, right,
Speaker 2: and you're.
Speaker 4: Like, babe, no, babe, actually take your ass over to
Speaker 4: Wiki leaks and a couple of videos I want to
Speaker 4: show you.
Speaker 3: But like, it's very our favorite scene in elword, it's.
Speaker 4: Very Tanya and now.
Speaker 2: Watch that episode because he has.
Speaker 4: This scene where he gives an a racer to an
Speaker 4: Iraqi child and the Iraqi kid is so happy, and
Speaker 4: he was like, every day since then, I've tried to
Speaker 4: live my life like being grateful for the eraser eraser life.
Speaker 2: And he's like, here I was, I thought being a
Speaker 2: generational scotch Irish hillbilly person, not being able to get
Speaker 2: a tickle me Elmo or Abercrombie.
Speaker 4: But he was sad, whoa, here is this Iraqi kid
Speaker 4: living in a war torn country.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was raceful for an eraser and he was like,
Speaker 2: I felt like a man. And then there's all these
Speaker 2: things him and after that eraser time, I took my
Speaker 2: nieces to Wendy's night, it felt like such a man.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I do feel like it's also a little bit
Speaker 4: just like maybe that was the first time he had
Speaker 4: like an interaction with like a child where he literally
Speaker 4: was like, oh, I'm like a grown up Boots because
Speaker 4: he was like such a little fat night who was
Speaker 4: being picked on his whole life. The casting the movie
Speaker 4: is good, I would say, I.
Speaker 3: Would say that I think that kid did.
Speaker 4: The kid did a really good job. Okay, I thought
Speaker 4: the older JD. Vans though, was a little boring.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he just kind of had like very like acting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was like, can we express a little bit more?
Speaker 3: And he's a little seventh season one tree hell yeah,
Speaker 3: where he was being like.
Speaker 4: Huff, I'm generally huffing.
Speaker 3: Whereas the kid was acting up a goddamn storm.
Speaker 4: While we're on the movie. Let me just say this,
Speaker 4: one of the thing is good about the book is
Speaker 4: the way he's always like weaving and he so studies
Speaker 4: show and he's just like and this is how my
Speaker 4: story like relates to like these broader economic trends that
Speaker 4: are happening in the region. But the movie like only
Speaker 4: tries to make it be like universal. Like all they
Speaker 4: do is just show people driving cars looking out windows
Speaker 4: at like people having mattresses in their yard or like
Speaker 4: classics or like the closed down factory, and like that's
Speaker 4: all it is. They're just being like, so, you got it.
Speaker 4: It's it's the Roust Belt.
Speaker 2: It's sad, which is funny because JD actually kind of
Speaker 2: calls out that stereotype in this book, is like you
Speaker 2: get it, Like the rust Belt, we're like stoven dolls
Speaker 2: and the Blockbuster's been closed down for years and.
Speaker 4: Like he's way more economist article and Wright.
Speaker 2: And is being like, well Arkham was bought by Japanese steel.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's like there weren't even any other characters
Speaker 4: like in the film. I feel like they could have
Speaker 4: figured out some other way to show what was happening
Speaker 4: in the town beyond just like people looking out the window.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was much more I think the Ron Howard
Speaker 2: of making it like the personal Grandma Glenn Close. I
Speaker 2: mean it was just like the most like it was
Speaker 2: the most play like southern because it was cigarettes.
Speaker 4: Every like crazy scene in the book just jammed into
Speaker 4: one movie, like completely back to back, like cagarette carettes,
Speaker 4: beating screen doors, so many screen doors, slamming his only
Speaker 4: screen doors. You don't even get a chance to breathe,
Speaker 4: like ever movies, And they.
Speaker 2: Didn't even really get into where he talks about so
Speaker 2: much more of like heroin and fentanyl, where it's a
Speaker 2: little more.
Speaker 4: Just like, yeah, my mom is an addict, and then
Speaker 4: they're like she's an addict.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: The art that I really love was when he moves
Speaker 4: like back to Cincinnati after Yale law and he was like,
Speaker 4: my friend was the promotions director for a local radio station,
Speaker 4: so I had an into the city's best events.
Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, here's the thing. I would go to school,
Speaker 2: then work, then tons of events. He was a free concerts,
Speaker 2: food festivals, and.
Speaker 4: It's being sowks.
Speaker 2: It was being so like taste of since Sinnati and
Speaker 2: like the firework exposition and like awesome free concerts.
Speaker 4: I mean that is cool, but because it's like you
Speaker 4: know about all the festivals when you know the radio.
Speaker 2: Promoter, he is also very radio promoter. His vibe is
Speaker 2: so like hey, I'm the station manager WZLX.
Speaker 4: I did like when he kind of was saying at
Speaker 4: one point in book, he was like, you can't be
Speaker 4: so people to judge and just like revitalizing a downtown
Speaker 4: and like hope that that alone is gonna be like
Speaker 4: enough bring people back. Right, Yeah, this is people didn't
Speaker 4: leave because their downtown lacked trendy cultural amenities. The trendy
Speaker 4: culture amenities left because there won't have consumers in middle
Speaker 4: time to support them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's getting that. It's not like if a Ramen
Speaker 2: place opens.
Speaker 4: The thing is like that kind of a revitalization I
Speaker 4: think can happen in like super small towns, but like
Speaker 4: a town of like forty thousand people, right, cannot be
Speaker 4: revitalized by Ramen.
Speaker 2: I asked, Ohioan I know, Oh who comes from a
Speaker 2: Kentucky background?
Speaker 4: No hillbilly Hillbilly Hilpert.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what they thought of jd Vance? I'll just read
Speaker 2: it's kind of on the ground. Yeah, my family would
Speaker 2: shoot him on site.
Speaker 4: Okay, so here we have the violence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my dad from Kentucky fucked, don't know shit, and
Speaker 2: Middletown is rough shirt. But what small city that ran
Speaker 2: on factories is doing well? Cluster mark. He acts like
Speaker 2: Ohio was the ghetto and he got out like the
Speaker 2: rappers say, made it out of the mud, and then
Speaker 2: he comes back to save Ohio. His family doesn't even
Speaker 2: fuck with him. He's too good for everyone walking the
Speaker 2: picket line, but hates unions, Ivy League fraud. I feel
Speaker 2: bad for his grandma.
Speaker 4: Wow, that was a succinct fucking takedown. Go off your
Speaker 4: person on the ground, Ye.
Speaker 2: Person on the ground.
Speaker 3: I work for the Census c.
Speaker 4: O fucking g over. Wow, I'm obsessed with that. No,
Speaker 4: And it's like, you know, he is everything that he
Speaker 4: claims to despise in this book now.
Speaker 2: And now he's a coastal.
Speaker 4: Also started this like foundation to like save Ohio from
Speaker 4: like drugs that like obviously collapse after three years and
Speaker 4: like spend all their money on overhead and executive salaries
Speaker 4: and like didn't do anything.
Speaker 2: No. Classic it's like make a massive office that I'm
Speaker 2: sure liked a Starbucks in it, yeah, and then wanted
Speaker 2: it do nothing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because he's fucking care about.
Speaker 3: Public And it does make me think I'm sure.
Speaker 2: I mean, his mom is like clapping away for him,
Speaker 2: but like and I'm sure Mema she saw him now,
Speaker 2: like she would just be like supportive and proud.
Speaker 4: Be proud.
Speaker 3: I think she'd be.
Speaker 4: Proud to encouraged if someone sceed and was like, I
Speaker 4: spent this money a TA eighty nine.
Speaker 2: Plus and bought a calculator.
Speaker 4: Bought a calculator, and you're gonna use it, and.
Speaker 2: Like, again, Millennials, what did we even do with those?
Speaker 4: Do you kids today still like use those? I was
Speaker 4: thinking about that last night gen Z and Jen Alfer
Speaker 4: sound off in the Commons Calculators.
Speaker 2: Remember that was such a new story backpacks being really
Speaker 2: heavy because of all the textbooks in the TI eighties.
Speaker 4: That was so from our generation. It was so many
Speaker 4: news stories about backpackers.
Speaker 2: Are killing children forty fifty ll bah down.
Speaker 4: I wonder if they're still doing like printed out PDFs
Speaker 4: because that was also so school right. Well, we're one
Speaker 4: hundred years. I don't think we'll ever know, And that's fine.
Speaker 2: I know when we are just making it out of
Speaker 2: the holler, we're segment people. How does she live?
Speaker 4: What does she wear? Well? Does she okay? What does
Speaker 4: she wearar? I mean he's definitely like heathered Yale T
Speaker 4: shirt like around the house yell.
Speaker 2: But there was the whole Yale T shirt parable in
Speaker 2: the book, it's at the end and he's wearing his
Speaker 2: Yale shirt and a woman's like, oh, do you go there?
Speaker 2: And he lies and says, my girlfriend goes there because
Speaker 2: he does. I want to be a coastal elite. But
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, he does have a
Speaker 2: heather yell shirt. Yes, okay, And I think he's more
Speaker 2: drive at Polos on the weekend.
Speaker 4: Oh, in like a golf.
Speaker 2: Feet way Yeah, yeah, wick away.
Speaker 4: But I still feel like he is wanting to do
Speaker 4: a little bit of this costplay, right, So isn't he
Speaker 4: going to be.
Speaker 2: Like heathered Joe jeans from Nords from Wrath they're a
Speaker 2: little whiskered.
Speaker 4: Or like we go to Costco and get like under
Speaker 4: armor at Costco.
Speaker 2: Oh, like he's not wearing from Nike dot Com. No,
Speaker 2: I don't think he's wearing Costco pants. He's getting delivery.
Speaker 2: He's getting delivery. Yes, I think he probably does shop
Speaker 2: at like just like a DC suit store, because I
Speaker 2: feel like.
Speaker 4: Like Usha is like san Diego Brahman. She's like a
Speaker 4: rich like, so I'm like, wouldn't she just be like,
Speaker 4: we're gonna dress you nice? I feel like the suits
Speaker 4: that I'm seeing him on the kitchen store right blue yeah,
Speaker 4: well or dark but like and then like a wide
Speaker 4: purple tie in this very Republican way.
Speaker 2: I think she's probably just like they're going to the
Speaker 2: like DC boutique and just still getting like the ugliest bluest.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because she's like buying American and international designers online.
Speaker 2: She's having such a sweepy, droopy, beautiful like layered top yeah,
Speaker 2: and like gorgeous like silk pants.
Speaker 4: Yes, she's having like both like Ralph Lauren and Indian
Speaker 4: designers like send her things.
Speaker 2: His underwear, I feel like he does wear like wick
Speaker 2: Away underwear, Like it's not a cotton, it's a blend.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean I feel like most guys are wearing
Speaker 4: blends these days. If I were running for office fall
Speaker 4: that moving around. Yeah, although I also like want there
Speaker 4: to be such a nip slip where like someone sees
Speaker 4: me my tidy whities like on the campaign trail and
Speaker 4: they're like it's so famous. Wait, how do they live?
Speaker 3: How do they live?
Speaker 2: Is he so crosses?
Speaker 4: Because he like is weaving in like random Christian stuff
Speaker 4: and he reads the Bible like when Mima's dying.
Speaker 2: I was actually I mean, I'm not shocked, but Christian
Speaker 2: is the first thing in his Twitter bio, and I
Speaker 2: thought it would be father, but.
Speaker 4: Like there you have to do to say christ Christian
Speaker 4: first Republican.
Speaker 2: He wants people to think there are crosses in there,
Speaker 2: but there are not crosses, like a fake bitch. Like
Speaker 2: I feel like they do have one of those coffee
Speaker 2: tables that's like unwieldy wood. It's like kind of restoration hardware.
Speaker 4: And yes, okay, unwieldly would that's from the holler.
Speaker 2: It's like Mima's bag hardware.
Speaker 4: It also does look like a hospice a little bit.
Speaker 4: I'm just there's this way where there's like a solitary flower,
Speaker 4: like a solitary amarillis in this way where you're like, oh, and.
Speaker 2: I feel like their bedroom is a little padded and
Speaker 2: saying asylum, like the highest bed padded.
Speaker 4: I know it's just getting on a ladder. Maybe that's
Speaker 4: part of their kink where she's like, will you help
Speaker 4: me into bed, into our bed, Like do.
Speaker 3: They have golden retrievers or is that too coastally.
Speaker 4: That's so waspy, that's not Yeah, I feel like he's
Speaker 4: probably like they actually paid like nine for the dog.
Speaker 4: But he's saying, it's like that's a mutt, like we
Speaker 4: don't even know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's more of like an old hound dog
Speaker 2: from the Hollow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like more basset as.
Speaker 3: All the hounds.
Speaker 2: And he's like, yeah, the the house.
Speaker 4: What did they eat? Like that blue apron alternative the
Speaker 4: grill green fresh.
Speaker 2: And they are like side by side salmon chicken slowly,
Speaker 2: the pre done meal.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, who are you in the book? I mean
Speaker 4: I'm definitely Usha.
Speaker 2: You're so Usha because you're like because I'm like this
Speaker 2: guy I met this No, no, it's actually really cool.
Speaker 2: But he was like in the Marines.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's huge and like literally we were watching like
Speaker 4: the scene where he's saying syrup.
Speaker 2: Pronounced because you're always like Chase say.
Speaker 4: Like looked at me. He was like literally, She's like
Speaker 4: so and then he puts her arms run. He's so
Speaker 4: cute how you say it.
Speaker 2: He's like, she's excited again. Wait the partial to the
Speaker 2: movie when he has to drive home after like a
Speaker 2: heroin overdose eleven hours and he's like, I got eleven hours.
Speaker 2: She goes, I'm going to stay on the phone with you,
Speaker 2: and he's like, don't do that. She goes, oh, we're
Speaker 2: doing this, and like gets up and like pours water
Speaker 2: for herself.
Speaker 4: Because she's like, so Ranny a good book lately.
Speaker 2: Do they drink? Are they having a cab?
Speaker 4: I mean he's fucking hanging in with Peter Teal, who's
Speaker 4: like doing lie of twink blood blood drinks.
Speaker 3: He's like, Peter, do you have any of that twink
Speaker 3: blood shuice?
Speaker 2: Was? Yeah, I think they have like a wine collection,
Speaker 2: like full of expensive Josh's.
Speaker 4: Yes, they're not Josh.
Speaker 2: It's like they're Joshuas And he's probably like gifted by
Speaker 2: other like Republican politicians like barreled age Bourbon.
Speaker 3: But I don't think he's like drinking.
Speaker 4: That a lot. I don't think he's drinking that a lot.
Speaker 4: But I think one poor.
Speaker 3: Mam mama, who am I in the book?
Speaker 2: I mean, I would like to just be mema like
Speaker 2: those beaver magazines.
Speaker 4: Are man beaver hunts. She's like, I don't want to
Speaker 4: get in a car accident and die with all these
Speaker 4: beaver hunts in my people die.
Speaker 3: I think I'm a lesbian, a nasty lesbian at that.
Speaker 4: And they like confiscate this porn from fantasy.
Speaker 2: She's like, I die, I'm.
Speaker 4: Hunting for pedophile with guns. Yeah. I would love for
Speaker 4: you to take on more of a mema roll in
Speaker 4: your community as well, smoking and like yelling at all
Speaker 4: children but like forcing them to like do their schoolwork
Speaker 4: and like do chores. Yeah, but I think that.
Speaker 3: Will become kind of a governing.
Speaker 2: Says You're not quite there, no, but I'll.
Speaker 3: Agent to it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm also just like at Ohio State being like,
Speaker 2: you like Cracker Barrel, Yes, that's your favorite restaurant. Okay,
Speaker 2: I go there ironically.
Speaker 4: Because that's the thing you're not at. Y know, you're
Speaker 4: at Ohio State, but you're still about Middletown and be
Speaker 4: like ew.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm actually from a pretty like hippie fan.
Speaker 4: And then when he tells you he's from there, like,
Speaker 4: oh wait, do you know any good dive bars in
Speaker 4: the haller, I'm like, wait, can you take me thrifting
Speaker 4: on the on a FOODI adventure in your poor hometown?
Speaker 3: I heard they have like these iconic biscuits.
Speaker 2: Take me there?
Speaker 4: Hey, I mean look, I mean I was like pretty brimaged.
Speaker 4: Did Yeah, I do like that he is weaving in
Speaker 4: you know, economic historical story starts into his own story.
Speaker 4: Like it's a pretty good format for a book. I
Speaker 4: think there's a reason it was like No, I was like,
Speaker 4: I can see.
Speaker 2: Why this became a Netflix film. Obviously it's full of
Speaker 2: fucking lies.
Speaker 4: And not to be so coastal elitist and say like,
Speaker 4: this book is like a helpful primer on like the
Speaker 4: curious quirks of like a freaky white poor people who
Speaker 4: you disdain, but it is a really interesting primer. I
Speaker 4: don't know.
Speaker 2: I know that I was a greeting and I was like, uh,
Speaker 2: like I see myself liking this just so I can
Speaker 2: like read about the holler. Yeah, helloa, I'll give this
Speaker 2: like three close down malls.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm giving this like three point nine like neighbors
Speaker 4: who've been against of pedophilia that you will fight. Yeah,
Speaker 4: unless you're my brother, in which case I will hydro
Speaker 4: pedophilia from the world for as long as I can. Anyway,
Speaker 4: Thank you. JP had good luck out there.
Speaker 2: Good luck with the election and everything.
Speaker 4: Stay weird, Stay weird, Usha Queen, our producer is a
Speaker 4: nasty little bitch. Her name's Darby masters. I don't trust
Speaker 4: her as far as I can throw her. However, she's
Speaker 4: my sister, so I'll defend her to the death.
Speaker 2: My mama had many boyfriends, and a Buzafar was one
Speaker 2: of them, and I remember this one Christmas. He came
Speaker 2: home and he gave me a game Boy. So I
Speaker 2: liked him, and he up and left. Maybe that was
Speaker 2: Mama's fun, maybe it was mine. Maybe I didn't play
Speaker 2: with game Boy enough. Down in the Holler, I never
Speaker 2: thought I would have an executive producer. But when I
Speaker 2: moved to Ohio, I met a woman. She was named
Speaker 2: Christina Everett. She executive produced this.
Speaker 4: Our theme music was done by a queer little boy
Speaker 4: from down the street named Stephen Phillips. Horse. I always
Speaker 4: looked at popow funny, probably wanted to stuck his dick,
Speaker 4: nasty little kid. However, God loves them just the same,
Speaker 4: and he's welcomed by my house for Thanksgiving any day
Speaker 4: of the week.
Speaker 2: Making a sucking dix art, let's talk about it, Okay, Look,
Speaker 2: I would just hang up some nice beautiful things. We
Speaker 2: got paintings of Jesus Christ, our Lord and savory with
Speaker 2: paintings of our beautiful hills and fields. But there's a
Speaker 2: guy who's a little more alternative. I went to Miami
Speaker 2: with my church and there was this fair going on.
Speaker 2: It was called Art Fuzzle, and there was a lot
Speaker 2: of sexy women, and Lord was tempting me. Lord anyway,
Speaker 2: I saw an art piece there by a man named
Speaker 2: Teddy Planks, and I said, look, all, barter subourbon for
Speaker 2: this piece of podcast artwork.
Speaker 4: My previous marriage ended in divorce. That marriage was located
Speaker 4: in Dumbo with a man named Prologue project, a man
Speaker 4: named Prologue. Hey, you like that, that's the coast for you.
Speaker 4: But we have settled all of our debts and we
Speaker 4: are in good standing with one another. And he is
Speaker 4: also welcome.
Speaker 2: He is still the father of three of my children.
Speaker 4: Christmas dinner in any day of the week, and he
Speaker 4: is family.
Speaker 2: I'd never liked to ask for anything in this world.
Speaker 4: That cigarettes are really expensive these days.
Speaker 2: And my mom her left choe is it's blowing up. Okay,
Speaker 2: it's infected, biggest China. Okay, anyway, So if you can
Speaker 2: sign up for our patroons patron dot com, so see
Speaker 2: me to the pod. I don't like to ask for anything,
Speaker 2: but I've been working home my whole life.
Speaker 4: We just needed a little help, Amen,