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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told You from how stupp

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Christen and I'm Caroline, And today we are talking about

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Speaker 1: the Women's March on Washington that I'm sure a lot

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Speaker 1: of y'all listening have been talking about thinking about. Maybe

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Speaker 1: you're planning your itinerary right now as you're listening to this,

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Speaker 1: Perhaps you're even packing for the trip, making signs, making sandwiches.

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Speaker 1: I hope those people are coming with me, or maybe

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Speaker 1: you're like, uh, no way, I'm not gonna go to that.

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Speaker 1: Why on earth would I go to that? Uh? And

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Speaker 1: because of that back and forth and all of the

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Speaker 1: conversation that's been going on, so we decided to take

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Speaker 1: an episode and unpack not only all the conversations happening

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Speaker 1: around this Women's March on Washington, but also so to

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Speaker 1: pull the lens back a little bit and contextualize historically

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Speaker 1: the impact of these kinds of mass demonstrations and asked

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Speaker 1: the question, how effective could this be in terms of

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Speaker 1: changing the culture that we are seeing sweeping into the

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Speaker 1: White House via the Trump administration. Yes, let's give you

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Speaker 1: some deeds on this march on Washington that's coming up

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Speaker 1: on the twenty one. Like Kristen said, so for a while,

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Speaker 1: the Women's march that is happening basically as an answer

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Speaker 1: or response to Donald Trump's election. Um it didn't have

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Speaker 1: a location for a while, but now it's going to

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Speaker 1: be at Independence Avenue and Third Street Northwest, but for

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Speaker 1: security reasons, the route actually as of this recording anyway,

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Speaker 1: hasn't been released yet. But it's gonna happen at ten am.

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Speaker 1: So pack those sandwiches, pack those signs, pack submittens. It's

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Speaker 1: going to be cold, all of the mittens. And the

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Speaker 1: organizers are insistent on the language of it being a

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Speaker 1: march and not a protest, because they say that this

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Speaker 1: event is all about unity and communicating their motto that

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Speaker 1: they have been repeating over and over again that's repeated

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Speaker 1: a lot on the website, that women's rights are human rights,

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Speaker 1: which echoes Hillary Clinton's famous speech in China that we

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Speaker 1: talked about in our episode Who Is Hillary Clinton? Um

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Speaker 1: So they don't want this to come across as a protest,

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Speaker 1: even though in a way it is a protest because

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Speaker 1: they're protesting in their own words, the rhetoric of the

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Speaker 1: past election cycle and The organizers are also very clear

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Speaker 1: about wanting to send that message that women's rights are

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Speaker 1: human rights and vice versa to the new administration on

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Speaker 1: their first dand US because of course, this is being

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Speaker 1: held the day after the inauguration, and part of the

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Speaker 1: intent of not referring to it as a protest and

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Speaker 1: also not directly calling out President elect Trump directly in

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Speaker 1: their messaging because they're inviting everybody, you know, they're like,

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Speaker 1: you don't you don't have to have voted for Hillary

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Speaker 1: Clindon to want to be part of this march. Um,

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Speaker 1: they're really trying to emphasize this whole solidarity thing, the

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Speaker 1: solidarity around that concept that women's rights are human rights.

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Speaker 1: In the fact, Caroline, that we still have to say

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Speaker 1: that is a little disheartening. But they do shout out

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Speaker 1: a number of communities that they want to represent, that

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Speaker 1: they want their voices heard in this march, including communities

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Speaker 1: of color, l g B, t q I A communities,

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Speaker 1: indigenous and immigrant communities and so forth. But at all

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Speaker 1: within all of those identities, Um, the organizers at least

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Speaker 1: circle everything back to women's rights are human rights. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that issue of all of these different voices standing

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Speaker 1: in solidarity. So they talk about wanting to march for

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Speaker 1: the protection of our rights, our safety or health, and

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Speaker 1: our families, recognizing that our vibrant and diverse communities are

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Speaker 1: the strength of our country. So, you know, if you

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Speaker 1: are seeking to bring together a lot of people around

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Speaker 1: a common cause, and you are hoping to be as

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Speaker 1: broadly attractive and inclusive as possible, I mean, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: guess women's rights are human rights is a good signpost

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Speaker 1: around which to rally. But um, that doesn't change the

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Speaker 1: fact that this event, this march did arise directly after

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump was elected. I mean, it has an interesting

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Speaker 1: origin story which i I didn't know until Kristin sent

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Speaker 1: me the link. But it has to do something with

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Speaker 1: a grandmother in Hawaii. Yeah, I mean that's that's Reuter's words,

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Speaker 1: not mine. Um. And by the way, I'm always just

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Speaker 1: sending Caroline length um. Even though there were a number

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Speaker 1: of people on November nine, or even into the wee

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Speaker 1: hours of November eighth, when things started turning south in

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Speaker 1: in the election whose immediate response was protests, we have

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Speaker 1: to do something, um. And also just a general desire

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Speaker 1: to seek out solidarity, and that especially makes sense for

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Speaker 1: this quote unquote Hawaiian grandmother. Uh. As she has been

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Speaker 1: referred to by the media, which I don't really know why,

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Speaker 1: because she's a retired lawyer who happens to live in

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Speaker 1: Hawaiian also has grandchildren. Um, but her name is Teresa Shook,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I guess because clickbait, Yeah, Hawaii grandma. You

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Speaker 1: know in the headlines, Oh it's Hawaii grandma. Who's organizing?

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Speaker 1: Who's who's the one who started this this whole march thing.

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Speaker 1: Oh you mean a woman from a group that is

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Speaker 1: traditionally invisible and silenced, like women over a certain age,

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Speaker 1: was actually speaking up on the Internet and encouraging people

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Speaker 1: to take action. Of course, that makes a headline. Sure, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll take the devil's advocate side of that, though, and

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Speaker 1: say that Theresa Shook as a white woman, so while

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Speaker 1: she is perhaps older, and that, yes, if you spent

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Speaker 1: it in a click baity way of like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is a grandma, also, it makes it seem endearing. Um.

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Speaker 1: But her whiteness and the whiteness of the women who

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Speaker 1: initially jumped on board to start organizing quickly became not

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Speaker 1: to use a very overused word, but I'm gonna use it,

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Speaker 1: so to say not to use it is redundant. It

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Speaker 1: became problematic. I wonder too if part of the media

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Speaker 1: framing of Hawaiian grandma inspires mass march softens the potential

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Speaker 1: protest element of it, because you, yeah, have that like

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Speaker 1: counterintuitive and a woman over forty is doing something and

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Speaker 1: people are listening. Strange. Um, but also it's like, oh no, Grandma,

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Speaker 1: let's check this out. She bringing cookie because she started

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Speaker 1: this started right as a Facebook post where um, this

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Speaker 1: Hawaii grandmother in quotes who's retired lawyer, Teresa Shook. She

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Speaker 1: started a Facebook post. It was like, oh lord, we

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Speaker 1: need to protest, we need to march, we need to

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Speaker 1: do something. And it basically took on a life of

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Speaker 1: its own. Someone shared her post with the secret but

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Speaker 1: not so Secret pant Suit Nation facebook group, a group

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Speaker 1: that was obviously named and inspired by Hillary Clinton. Are

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Speaker 1: named four and inspired by Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton didn't

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Speaker 1: name it herself, although that would be pretty amazing. Um,

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Speaker 1: and her middle name is pant Suit. Um, so it

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Speaker 1: is a direct homage. Yeah, Hillary p Yes, Clintons Clinton, Um,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, it it. It took on a life of

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Speaker 1: its own and got thousands and thousands and thousands of

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Speaker 1: people talking about having an event in direct response to

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Speaker 1: the election of Trump, and in Shook's case, her living

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Speaker 1: in Maui ps wowie so jealous. UM. Her living in

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Speaker 1: Mauie Mauie was a part of her motivation because she

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Speaker 1: wanted to be surrounded by a lot of people, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and do something with all of the

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Speaker 1: energy that uh and discomfort and anxiety and outright terror

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Speaker 1: that was sparked in the way of the election. And

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Speaker 1: what happened then was a lot of people like Shook

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Speaker 1: starting their own private uh invitations to friends to go

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Speaker 1: to Washington, none of them really you know, being co

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Speaker 1: ordinated it all. But now it has been brought under

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Speaker 1: this umbrella of a Women's March on Washington UM. And

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Speaker 1: right now, the national co chairs of the event are

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Speaker 1: Tamika de Mallory, who is a criminal justice reform activist,

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Speaker 1: Carmen Perez who's the executive director of Gathering for Justice,

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Speaker 1: Linda Sarsour, who is a Palestinian American Muslim social justice

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Speaker 1: activist and the executive director of the Arab American Association

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Speaker 1: of New York and one of the original organizers Bob Bland,

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Speaker 1: And that's a lady Bob, which I really appreciate. Um,

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Speaker 1: so you're welcome, Bob. I appreciate your name. But Bland

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Speaker 1: is the CEO and founder of Manufacturer New York and

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Speaker 1: a domestic manufacturing activists. So that's great. This seems like

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Speaker 1: as far as a group of co chairs go, this

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Speaker 1: seems to be really indicative of different voices in activism.

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Speaker 1: It includes women of color. Alert that's great. They did

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Speaker 1: kind of take the wheel from some well intentioned white

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Speaker 1: ladies who tried to get this march going and realized

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Speaker 1: very quickly that they were in over their heads. And hello,

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Speaker 1: they they are not representative as organizers go, of the

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Speaker 1: massively diverse group of people that they hoped to get

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Speaker 1: together in Washington, and in exit poll context, this immediate

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Speaker 1: outcry led initially by white women saying how could this

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Speaker 1: have happened? How could Trump be the president? Now? Um,

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Speaker 1: women of color were understandably uh side eyeing because oh,

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Speaker 1: guess what, a majority of white women voted for Trump,

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Speaker 1: whereas nine six percent I believe it's of black women

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Speaker 1: voted for Hillary Clinton. So it's like, okay, so we're

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Speaker 1: at the polls doing the work, um, but now you

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Speaker 1: want to uh feel better about it. Well. And there's

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Speaker 1: also the point of like, did you guys think like

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Speaker 1: racism and sexism were just over? Like did you just

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Speaker 1: assume like that none of this stuff was a problem anymore?

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Speaker 1: And you're acting horrified and shocked and like, yes, let's

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Speaker 1: cry and more and and grieve and make plans for

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Speaker 1: tomorrow about what to do and how to take this on.

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Speaker 1: But like we've already been aware of all of these

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Speaker 1: issues and all of the suppression, and like it's just

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Speaker 1: time to get back to work. White ladies, pick yourself

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Speaker 1: up well and and too it's an extension of ripples

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Speaker 1: of white feminism throughout the election, um that were echoed

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Speaker 1: in the Hillary Clinton campaign. Um. You know, some people

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Speaker 1: label hill Hillary Clinton as the poster woman of white feminism,

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Speaker 1: UM because, as we talked about in our episode, more

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Speaker 1: of like a biopic biopod episode on her earlier life. UM,

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Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton like like most of us, honestly, but her

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Speaker 1: political stances have been a work in progress, and she

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Speaker 1: has not always been so intersectional UM in her approach,

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Speaker 1: particularly to UM community uplift. Yeah, and of course, the

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Speaker 1: well intentioned white ladies who were trying to organize this

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Speaker 1: march for January one also got danged majorly for the

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Speaker 1: original name, which was going to be the Million Woman March,

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Speaker 1: and that if that sounds familiar, well it should because

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Speaker 1: it's protest appropriation. There was a nineteen seven million woman

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Speaker 1: March in Philadelphia organized and attended and set up for

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Speaker 1: black women. All of this too, is happening on Facebook,

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Speaker 1: so you can imagine that the tenor of the organizing

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Speaker 1: quickly spiraled because you have women of color, a number

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Speaker 1: of women of color, and sure there are probably some

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Speaker 1: some white ladies, but whatever. But some women of color

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Speaker 1: who are stepping up and sort of stepping into this

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Speaker 1: group hug of solidarity and saying hey hey, um no,

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Speaker 1: And there was some defensiveness on the part of organizers,

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Speaker 1: and as a spectator on the internet sidelines, I was

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Speaker 1: not about to touch it with a ten foot poll

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Speaker 1: because um my, my knee jerk, Oh god was people love?

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Speaker 1: Is anything really that perpetuates the stereotype of women as

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Speaker 1: ultimately unable to unify because of cat fighting and um

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Speaker 1: also this bizarre idea that feminists are in complete disarray

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Speaker 1: if they ever disagree on anything because not only um

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Speaker 1: should we be perfect in all of our actions, but

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Speaker 1: we should also be a monolith, right right. So as

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Speaker 1: that initial Facebook kerfuffle was going down, I just kind

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Speaker 1: of kept going about my business, and honestly, I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'll just start this little tiny letter called the Do

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Speaker 1: Better Dispatch all write my own thing right now, and

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Speaker 1: then figure out what I'm gonna do about the march

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Speaker 1: once the dust settles a bit. And I did fair listeners.

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Speaker 1: I did email Kristen. Apparently we never speak except for

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Speaker 1: via email. Uh, but I was like, hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: I I know you're one of my feminist heroes, and

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Speaker 1: you're really good at thinking about things big picture. I

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Speaker 1: have been planning to go to this march, but I'm

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Speaker 1: watching this kerfuffle. As you say, unfold or what does

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Speaker 1: our kerfuffle do? Does it like unroll, unravel, unfold, explode.

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Speaker 1: I think a kerfuffle splats splat. Okay, yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: watching the kerfuffle splat, and I was like, holy crap,

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Speaker 1: all of these white ladies are getting really defensive instead

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Speaker 1: of being open minded. Maybe I'm too used to being

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Speaker 1: part of this minty community where people listen to each

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Speaker 1: other and learn from each other. Um, Am I a

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Speaker 1: bad feminist for wanting to go to this march and

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Speaker 1: stand in solidarity with all of these other nasty women

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Speaker 1: and angry feminists. And I said no, and that it's

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Speaker 1: not about you. And I think too that I mean,

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Speaker 1: And I said that not in a harsh way, because

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Speaker 1: I had been It had forced me to think about

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Speaker 1: my feelings and my role and my privilege in all

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Speaker 1: of this post election fall out as well, because part

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Speaker 1: of the defensiveness, um, was this sentiment of, well, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is not the time to fight, let's just all

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Speaker 1: come together. Why you know, this is why we can't

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Speaker 1: have nice things. Um. But that's such a double standard

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Speaker 1: for women possessing privilege to tell women who do not

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Speaker 1: enjoy as much privilege because we don't. We're we're just

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Speaker 1: now feeling maybe an inkling of what is their lived

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Speaker 1: experience a lot of times. So we need to get

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Speaker 1: used to And by we, I mean I'm I'm gesturing

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Speaker 1: towards myself, towards my pasty white self. We need to

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Speaker 1: be more comfortable with getting uncomfortable. And Caroline, I'm so

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Speaker 1: glad that you emailed me. Um. First of all, you

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Speaker 1: know to ensure that we kept our daily emails and

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Speaker 1: link sharings up. But we'd never want to fall back

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Speaker 1: on that. UM. But I was glad that you emailed

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Speaker 1: me because it did force me to spend some more

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Speaker 1: time considering all of the nuances. And the big thing

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Speaker 1: that I emphasize in my response to you was my

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Speaker 1: concern that all of the energy going into this one day,

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Speaker 1: particularly from people who are not activists, are not protesters typically,

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Speaker 1: who are getting you know, their travel arrangements to go

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Speaker 1: up to Washington, that this event will happen, and then

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Speaker 1: we'll do our checklist. Did it, we marched, we marchhawn Washington.

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Speaker 1: We can just go back about our business. And that's

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Speaker 1: not how change happens. And one selfish reason why I

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Speaker 1: wanted to do this podcast was to have an excuse

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Speaker 1: to spend a week researching UM, people who do this

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff as a living, who know the history

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Speaker 1: of civil disobedience and know the nature of effective protest,

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Speaker 1: and find out how how impactful are these things Because

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Speaker 1: we read in history books about say, the suffrage March

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Speaker 1: of nineteen thirteen, which we're definitely going to talk about

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Speaker 1: later in the show. UM, of course we know about

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Speaker 1: the nineteen sixty three March on Washington where Martin Luther

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Speaker 1: King Jr. Delivered his I have a dream speech. Um,

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Speaker 1: And especially though in this day and age where we

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Speaker 1: have such a short cultural attention span, partly because of

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Speaker 1: the Internet and viral itty and this just um, this

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Speaker 1: idea that we can just disrupt things like we're gonna

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Speaker 1: be uber disrupting social justice. You know if we just

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Speaker 1: bombard the National Mall one day. Um, how how true

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Speaker 1: that can really be? Well? Yeah, and also examining and

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Speaker 1: again listening to the voices of women, particularly women of color,

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Speaker 1: who already have been in this space, that space being activism, protest, marching,

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Speaker 1: agitating for change, etcetera. Um, because I think there is

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Speaker 1: still in some corners of the Internet there is still

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Speaker 1: a little misunderstanding and resentment on the part of some

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Speaker 1: white ladies who don't understand, like, why would you criticize

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Speaker 1: this march? We're just trying to do the right thing.

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Speaker 1: And so we want to highlight people like Rosie Campos,

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Speaker 1: who for instance, wrote a piece over at Medium raising

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Speaker 1: concerns about several aspects of the march, even after the

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Speaker 1: new co chairs kind of took the Wheel. She still

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Speaker 1: had issues with Mallory Perez and Star Soars association with

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Speaker 1: the Justice League New York City for instance, or Justice

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Speaker 1: League NYC. She points out that, you know, that group

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Speaker 1: has drawn criticism in the past for going soft on

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Speaker 1: elected officials, having closed door meetings with officials and politicians,

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Speaker 1: rather than putting their focus on grassroots efforts, rather than

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Speaker 1: getting that boots on the ground community engagement, and campus

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Speaker 1: was really concerned that, you know, is this part of

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Speaker 1: just some sort of like showmanship or performance of activism, right,

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Speaker 1: because protest as a mere performance might be very instagram ready. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it might get people talking, It might get people like

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Speaker 1: inspired or angry or something, or it might make us

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Speaker 1: feel better psychologically. It might give us a little comfort that, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know what of women who look like be voted

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Speaker 1: that cheeto with a t pe on into office. But

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Speaker 1: it's okay because I did this one thing one time. Um.

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Speaker 1: Although Campos did emphasize that, you know, we cannot get

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Speaker 1: into the minds of these organizers and judge whether they

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Speaker 1: are out for showmanship and I and from what I've seen, UM,

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Speaker 1: I believe that everyone involved in this organization absolute lutely

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Speaker 1: wants to see change and absolutely wants to send a

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Speaker 1: clear message. Um. So, our responsibility as individuals is doing

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Speaker 1: that work of separating the personal from more of the

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Speaker 1: political and the structural and um holding systems accountable rather

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Speaker 1: than saying, uh, you know you, if you're involved in this,

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Speaker 1: then you are only out to you know, look good

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Speaker 1: on Twitter for a day, um, rather than that's all

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Speaker 1: I care exactly, I mean in general, not even related

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Speaker 1: to this, Oh, I just I just want to look

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Speaker 1: good on Twitter. Man. You know, everybody's got dreams. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: if you're a super supporter and have felt personally defensive

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Speaker 1: by this critique, I think it's worth pausing for a

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Speaker 1: moment and taking your individual self out of it and saying, well,

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Speaker 1: isn't it worth holding groups and uh, structures accountable and

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Speaker 1: institutions accountable? Because ultimately, isn't that what we want to change?

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Speaker 1: Are these systems of power that are in place, and

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Speaker 1: if you have groups that are then attached to that

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Speaker 1: and are you know, reinforcing an oppressive system, then whether

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Speaker 1: it makes you uncomfortable or not, you gotta you gotta

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Speaker 1: do the work because it is so easy when you

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Speaker 1: are existing in a position or sphere of privilege to

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Speaker 1: retreat back into that feeling of comfort. I mean it's natural,

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Speaker 1: it's human nature to not want to be uncomfortable. But

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Speaker 1: like you were saying earlier, part of moving forward at

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Speaker 1: this point in our country's political history, UH, is forcing

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Speaker 1: yourself to be uncomfortable and get outside that bubble and

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Speaker 1: take action that can make a real and lasting change

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Speaker 1: and not just checking the box of I marched on

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Speaker 1: January one. Also, the irony is not lost on me

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Speaker 1: listeners that Caroline and I are saying all these things

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Speaker 1: in kind of a literal bubble that is this podcast studio.

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Speaker 1: We are two white women sitting alone in an echo chamber.

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Speaker 1: As figuratively yeah, I mean, although I guess the sound dampening. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the echo, the echo, but we we do have like

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Speaker 1: a fish tank window to our producer Knoll so o hey,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, so he's granting at us. So you know,

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Speaker 1: people can can see in the instagram, US tweet us.

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Speaker 1: Now we also, Caroline have to shout out Brittany t

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Speaker 1: Oliver because she's an activist who has really led the

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Speaker 1: charge and has stood firm in holding that organizing group,

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Speaker 1: the Women's March on Washington group accountable and responsible and

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Speaker 1: is still not satisfied with their messaging in terms of

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Speaker 1: the shift from all white ladies organizing to now a

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Speaker 1: more diverse group of co chairs, saying that, um, you

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Speaker 1: still haven't taken responsibility. You still haven't apologized, for instance,

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Speaker 1: to the original organizers of the Million Woman March, like

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Speaker 1: just just do it please? Yeah, And I mean so

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Speaker 1: on the march website and and f a Q section

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Speaker 1: they talk about how, you know, we as the organizers,

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Speaker 1: recognized the need to be inclusive. But Oliver points out

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Speaker 1: that this does still shirk responsibility for having exercised white feminism,

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Speaker 1: uh from the get go. And Oliver points out that, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, this whole like all Women Matter ethos really

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Speaker 1: does not come off as intersectional enough or at all period.

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Speaker 1: And as Oliver and others have pointed out, in some ways,

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Speaker 1: this initial organi sizing of the Women's March is not

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Speaker 1: so flattering women's history repeating itself. And y'all, the stakes

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Speaker 1: are too high to do that again. And we're going

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Speaker 1: to get into that when we come right back from

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Speaker 1: a quick break. So this march on January will not

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Speaker 1: be the first time that women have organized marches protests, rallies,

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Speaker 1: what have you around the election of a president UM

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Speaker 1: In nineteen Christen hinted at this earlier, on the eve

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Speaker 1: of Woodrow Wilson's inauguration, somewhere between five and eight thousand

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Speaker 1: suffragists marched on Washington UH. And the march was organized

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Speaker 1: by suffragists Alice Paul and Lucy Burns, and Alice Paul

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Speaker 1: had been inspired by British suffragists working in their own

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Speaker 1: country for the vote. And they are the bulk of

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Speaker 1: the images that you find when you google suffragists or

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Speaker 1: Women's March or whatever. The images from that nineteen thirteen

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Speaker 1: march of all of these white women holding signs that

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Speaker 1: say Woodrow Wilson or Mr President or Mr Wilson, like

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Speaker 1: how long must women wait? That's kind of like the

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Speaker 1: bulk of the suffrage and women's march imagery that you find,

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Speaker 1: and even beyond women focused UH. Post presidential election marches

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Speaker 1: UM in nineteen seventy three, you have sixty thousand people

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Speaker 1: show up to protest Nixon's inauguration, which of course was

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Speaker 1: linked to Vietnam War protests. UM. There were thousands of people,

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Speaker 1: including some friends of mine, who went up to Washington

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Speaker 1: to Ungreet w Old George W. Bush Um in January

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Speaker 1: two thousand one. Um. But I will say that there

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Speaker 1: are more people than usual who are protesting the Trump inauguration.

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Speaker 1: This was just reported by the Associated Press who talked

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Speaker 1: to the National Park Service and found that they have

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Speaker 1: about four times the number of groups as usual in

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Speaker 1: past inaugurations who have filed for permits to protest. So

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Speaker 1: it's not just the Women's March that's gonna be out there,

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Speaker 1: and it's not just protesting either. Bikers for Trump will

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Speaker 1: also be holding an event on January one alongside or

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Speaker 1: in tandem with, or in opposition to, the Women's March

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Speaker 1: on Washington. And there has been some concern about the

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Speaker 1: fact that the Trump Inaugural Committee snapped up a bunch

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Speaker 1: of permits from the National Park Service almost as in

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Speaker 1: the words of some organizers, as a land grab. That's

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Speaker 1: why the Women's March couldn't take place at the Lincoln

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Speaker 1: Memorial as desired, because in a varied Um, it's just

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Speaker 1: a gross contrast. Um, the Trump people got there first. Um.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, all of that to say is, uh, you

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Speaker 1: know this is part of our civic history. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's absolutely part of our civic history without

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Speaker 1: a doubt, and I mean specifically having it be staged

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Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. Is something that all of our

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Speaker 1: police and safety officials are used to, and they're going

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Speaker 1: to protect marchers, whether you're there to march with the

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Speaker 1: Women against Trump or whether you're there to march with

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Speaker 1: the Bikers for Trump. Yeah, that would be a super

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Speaker 1: bummer if the police were like, um, we're just gonna

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Speaker 1: pick a Jews who we protect. Oh wait, no, that

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Speaker 1: happens hau hashtag police brutality, hashtag black lives matter. Um,

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Speaker 1: speaking of which, we would be pulling a real hard

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Speaker 1: right into white feminism if we didn't talk about a

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Speaker 1: very significant march that did not happen in Washington, but

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Speaker 1: rather in Philadelphia in and that is the actual, real,

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Speaker 1: bona fide Million Woman March. And yeah, the the original

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Speaker 1: Million Woman Marchers are actually coming up on their their

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Speaker 1: twentieth anniversary and on Twitter they are still vocally protesting

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Speaker 1: the Women's March that's planned for January because they say like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: even though you change the name, you're still like hardcore

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Speaker 1: white feminists who aren't listening to what happened before you're

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Speaker 1: not listening to what we have been saying, and you're

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Speaker 1: not paying attention to what happened before. And some people

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Speaker 1: have also said, oh, yeah, I mean march on Washington

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Speaker 1: that already happened nine six three. Um, so yeah, that

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Speaker 1: the all the wrinkles have certainly not been ironed out. Yeah,

428
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: we can just rename it the Women's March out and

429
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: about gadding about in town in Washington. Maybe it should

430
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: just be the women Kerfuffle. Yeah, Washington Splat. I'll make

431
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: that T shirt. But okay, So in that march happened

432
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: in October. On October and depending on the source you

433
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: look out the people you talked to, three hundred thousand

434
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: to two million participants joined in this whole day that

435
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: included marches, that included speeches, and very notably, it did

436
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,479
Speaker 1: not include big names in the movement in the United

437
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: States at the time. It was really kind of organized

438
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: and launched and held as more of a grassroots activism event.

439
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: I mean, imagine getting that many women, hundreds of thousands

440
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: of black women to fill Adelphia for this without Facebook.

441
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: I know it's a very millennial thing to say. Um,

442
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: and the organizers did use you know, the ye oldie

443
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: Internet of the late nineties. But it was really uh,

444
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: word of mouth, tapping into those community level networks of

445
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: women telling women and it all started with small businesswoman

446
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: in grassroots activists phil A Cheni su and housing activist

447
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: Asia Coney. Yeah, and reporting on this at the time,

448
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: The New York Times was talking about how as fantastic

449
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: a an organizer and activist as Chenese was for this event,

450
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: she was not connected to national Black organizations. She was

451
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: inexperienced in staging a mass rally um and did not

452
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: seek help for more seasoned promoters. And I gotta say

453
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: that the tone of that Times piece from was kind

454
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: of dismissive. Oh yeah, all of this coverage that was

455
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: happening at the time of this event is very head patty.

456
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,479
Speaker 1: It's very like, oh, like, some black women got together

457
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: so many. I mean it was tremendously successful. Yeah, but

458
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: still it came off I came off of those articles

459
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: that we exchanged being like, uh, this this completely underplays

460
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: the point, the significance, uh, the ripple effects. It underplays

461
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: all of those elements that these women had achieved and

462
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: we're working for. That's part of the frustration too, that

463
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: you see echoed with criticism of the way that the

464
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: Seen Women's March was organized because you have that double discrimination,

465
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: um of not only the erasure of black communities, but

466
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: also than the further erasio of women. UM. So people

467
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: are probably more familiar with the Million Man March, which

468
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: took place in partly because it did include bigger names

469
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: and did I think get more press coverage. UM and Chienni,

470
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: Sue and Coney took a cue from the Million Man

471
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: March and said, we need to do our own thing.

472
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 1: We need a space for ourselves, partly because all of

473
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: these mainstream feminist organizations are doing a terrible job of

474
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: addressing those forms of double discrimination and economic discrimination and

475
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: so forth, and they experience. So the main goals of

476
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: the march was to call for better education and better

477
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: healthcare in black communities. UM and also support black female

478
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: inmates transitioning out of prison. And one of the main

479
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: platforms was led by California Representative Maxine Waters, who wanted

480
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: an investigation into alleged CIA supported crack cocaine introduction into

481
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 1: black neighborhoods. Yeah, and I mean you pointed out that

482
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: the black women organizing this event wanted a space that

483
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: was separate from the larger women's rights movement that was

484
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: ignoring them, and she and Nisu told the l A

485
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 1: Times that Black women have taken care of everyone else

486
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: since the time we've been in this country. We've taken

487
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: care of white women, white men, white children, our own men,

488
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: our own children, and now it's time that we take

489
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: care of ourselves. And that exact same thing happened on

490
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: November eight, two thousand and sixteen, you know, looking at

491
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: the exit poll data, and so I can absolutely understand

492
00:34:55,000 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: why Chienisu would look at this current march and it's like, uh,

493
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: same as it ever was, y'all, same as it ever was.

494
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: And what's what's crazy to me, And we've already sort

495
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: of touched on us, but what's crazy to me is

496
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: that this n March, this whole event has largely been ignored.

497
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 1: We we already talked about how the tone of those

498
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: articles of the time was very patting these women on

499
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: the head, like all right, I guess like black women

500
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: are marching or something. I don't know, but there was

501
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: a Time magazine piece that listed this was from and

502
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: it listed like eight or something women's marches. Well, it

503
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: was framed as like the most significant women's marches in

504
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: US history. Yeah, and it had like eight of them,

505
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,240
Speaker 1: and the march was nowhere to be found on that list.

506
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: And I was also surprised, considering how large it was,

507
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 1: that there hasn't been more current reference and reflection, because

508
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: even if you just do a basic will search for

509
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: it now, a lot of what you find are those

510
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: dated articles from the nineties. So, I mean, is it

511
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: surprising that has been whitewashed out of our popular history,

512
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: our immediate popular industry. No? Um, but let's not do

513
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: that again, right, I mean, we are clearly at a

514
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 1: point in time. Well we always are constantly, but we're

515
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: we're at a point in time when we really need

516
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: to be looking at women like Coney and Chianese Suit

517
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: and saying, they're amazing. They organized an incredible movement and

518
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: an incredible event. How can we be inspired from them,

519
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 1: learn from them, not co opt what they did, not

520
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: co opt the name, but learn from them and work

521
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 1: with the women that have come up behind them in

522
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: their wake. And I'm going to take that a step

523
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: further and say, um, look at them and maybe not

524
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 1: say anything at all and instead listen, but repositioning the

525
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: million woman march back into its rightful place in our

526
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: popular memory. Is not the only historical revising that needs

527
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: to be done. Yeah, women have a major role on

528
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: the front lines of marches, activism, protesting rallies. Uh, not

529
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 1: just in recent history, but going way back, way back

530
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: in time across the ocean. Am I sounding like two

531
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: poetic about this? Basically, I'm very excited about this largely

532
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 1: ignored history of women leading activism because it is really

533
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: a rich history that unfortunately we don't have time to

534
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: delve into today. But when you look back at the

535
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: sev Women's March on Versailles that was led by women,

536
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 1: I mean the name pretty much makes that obvious, but

537
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 1: that led to the end of the monarchy. Uh. Women

538
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: have been leading food riots across Europe and the United

539
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 1: States for hundreds of years, including in Europe during World

540
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 1: War One and in New York City at the time.

541
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: And the women's food riots in New York precipitated a

542
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,240
Speaker 1: boycott campaign that forced push cart peddlers to lower their prices.

543
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: Don't make women angry, that's right, push cart peddlers. I

544
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 1: can just imagine the protest I would lead if I

545
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: were hungry. Um, and I mean this is a global thing.

546
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 1: In nineteen twenty nine, you have the Igbo Women's War

547
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 1: in Nigeria. I mean, there's an incredible history. We talk

548
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 1: a lot about women's marches and activism too in our

549
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:33,320
Speaker 1: episode on International Women's Day. There's a rich labor history too,

550
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: of women in labor leading protests, strikes, and marches. And

551
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: when we come right back from a quick break, we

552
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 1: are going to spotlights some unsung heroines who have also

553
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:50,240
Speaker 1: been whitewashed and class washed out of our protest history

554
00:38:50,640 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: here in the United States. So, Caroline, earlier in the podcast,

555
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: you mentioned how much of our imagery of American suffrage

556
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: comes from that nineteen suffrage parade that happened on the

557
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: eve of President Wilson's inauguration, and a lot of those

558
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 1: images portray this movement as being exclusively made up of

559
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: well healed white women. I mean literally well healed. They

560
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: had fabulous booths, they did indeed, fancy hats, what more

561
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:43,760
Speaker 1: could you want? But they were taking cues from lower

562
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: socio economic classes who had no choice but to protest

563
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: um in order to live. But in actuality, they were,

564
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: by no means the first women to get out on

565
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: the street and fight. Now. Uh, there's a fabulous woman

566
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: figure in history who looks like Mother Hubbard or what

567
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: I imagine Mother Hubbard to look like. But she's a badass,

568
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: and she's also known as Mother That's right, that's right.

569
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: She is in h three labor reformer Mary Mother Jones,

570
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: No it's not just a website, boys and girls, also

571
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,879
Speaker 1: known as the most Dangerous woman in America, organized one

572
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 1: hundred child factory workers to march in front of the Kensington,

573
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania City Hall. But not just that. They weren't just

574
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,479
Speaker 1: gonna like hang out and wave some signs in front

575
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 1: of the Kensington City Hall. She was marching these children

576
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: to New York. And she actually once they got to

577
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: New York, she didn't stop. She in a delegation of

578
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,800
Speaker 1: five others, continued on to Teddy Roosevelt's home on Long Island.

579
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: And uh, she asked the children to wave their hands

580
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: in the air so that spectators could see their missing

581
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: fingers and gnarled hands from all the dangerous work that

582
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: they were doing. And Mother Jones is someone who I

583
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: would love to spend more time reading about because she

584
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,280
Speaker 1: was a standout figure at the time, because labor reform,

585
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: as you well know if you've listened to our episode

586
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 1: on the origins of International Women's Day, was not surprisingly

587
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: very dominated by men, but Mother Jones stepped in and

588
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: became a central organizing figure in this um. So that

589
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: was happening in nineteen o three. So just for a

590
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 1: little suffrage context, the first recognized US suffrage parade didn't

591
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: happen until nineteen oh eight, and that's when twenty three

592
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:53,479
Speaker 1: gales from the Americans Suffragettes and yes that's suffragettes because

593
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 1: they were taking a queue from the British Suffragettes marched

594
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 1: up Broadway. And so far we've only been talking about

595
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: white women. But again, of course protest was not just

596
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,320
Speaker 1: a thing for white ladies. You have Lucy Parsons, for

597
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: one example, who was a bona fide badass. She was

598
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: of African, Native American and Mexican descent and she was

599
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 1: super involved in the labor movement um. Her husband was white,

600
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 1: so that alone caused all sorts of scandal, but they

601
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 1: were like, we don't care, we're out for the people,

602
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 1: and uh, I can't go into all of the details

603
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: of her and her husband's joint activism until he met

604
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: an untimely end. Dune, dune, dune, um. But even after

605
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: he was killed, Parsons kept going. In nineteen fourteen and

606
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 1: nineteen fifteen, she organized a mass demonstrations against hunger and

607
00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: unemployment in San Francisco and then in chicag Ago. Yeah,

608
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 1: ten thousand people with women at the front, marched in

609
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: San Francisco, and you had even more people participate in

610
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:12,760
Speaker 1: the nineteen fifteen Chicago hunger demonstration, which actually received support

611
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 1: from a several different groups, including the American Federation of Labor,

612
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 1: the Socialist Party, and the Whole House started by Jane Adams.

613
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: And Parsons and mother Jones are also historically related because

614
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: they were the only two women among two hundred labor

615
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: organizers at the founding Convention of the Industrial Workers of

616
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: the World. So, I mean Parsons was an important person

617
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: to highlight because um a lot of times too in

618
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: our women's history when we talk about the trailblazer, the

619
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: first woman doing this, she stormed the gates of you know,

620
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: this male dominated space. We're a lot of times still

621
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,720
Speaker 1: talking about white men. But nope, that is not true

622
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: because you have people like Person's well and just a

623
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 1: couple of years later, in nineteen seventeen, we have another

624
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: march that is typically left out of the history books.

625
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: It is not going to be the first result in

626
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,720
Speaker 1: your Google image result if you're searching for women's marches,

627
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,439
Speaker 1: and really all of our podcast we do on stuff

628
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 1: I've never told you are solely based off of Google

629
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:24,439
Speaker 1: image results. Yeah, yeah, right, oh yeah, so, um, if

630
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 1: you hear a lot of references to stock imagery, that's

631
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 1: what's going on, which is very white. Uh. Well, so

632
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: the in Double a c P in nineteen seventeen lad

633
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: a silent protest parade. This was the first large scale

634
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: demonstration for civil rights in the twentieth century, and it

635
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: was in response to race riots happening in St. Louis,

636
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: where hundreds of black people were attacked and I think

637
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: what a hundred were killed? A hundred black men were killed? Yeah,

638
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 1: I mean probably more than that. Um, But it is

639
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: worth noting that black women and children were at the

640
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: front of this fifteen thousand plus person march against lynching

641
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: and against racism in New York and it was silent,

642
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: silent except for men playing drums. And the truly heartbreaking

643
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,399
Speaker 1: thing about all of this is that the a CP

644
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: Silent Protest Parade is yet another example of how we

645
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 1: see history repeating itself today. I mean that Women's March

646
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,799
Speaker 1: in Washington will be happening one hundred years after the

647
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: Silent Protests parade, and what have we seen in the

648
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: year and a half, you know before that back in St. Louis,

649
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 1: Right outside of St. Louis, in Ferguson, you have the

650
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: exact same kind of racial unrest happening. And of course

651
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 1: not just in Ferguson, but around the country. And so

652
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:59,879
Speaker 1: that's part of why us re situating these major may

653
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 1: your events in our history is so crucial because if

654
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: we're blind to these things, we especially as people who

655
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: are are not living those experiences, were not people of color. Um,

656
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 1: it's we're shortsighted and suddenly think that this is a

657
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,399
Speaker 1: new fight for civil rights. But if we shift back

658
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 1: to looking at those well healed suffragists in the United States,

659
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 1: it's not like a bunch of women decided it was

660
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: cool to march all at the same time. I mean,

661
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 1: there were a lot of women who were still like,

662
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: I'm not so sure. It's very classy of us to

663
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 1: be walking in the streets being vocal. Yeah, because only

664
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 1: women of working class or prostitutes would actually dane to

665
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: be walking in the streets. So you have folks like

666
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: Carrie Chapman Cat, who is well known in suffrage history,

667
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: who was not about to march in nineteen o nine.

668
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 1: She said, we did not have to win sympathy by

669
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: parading ourselves like the street cleaning department lord. But again,

670
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: I mean, we see these issues of racing class repeating

671
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 1: themselves over and over again. So seriously, maybe can this

672
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 1: be the year we start to at least own up

673
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: to that pay attention to history. Uh yeah, I realized

674
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,720
Speaker 1: we've already been here before. Yeah. Back in nine thirteen,

675
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: talking about that Woodrow Wilson Inauguration Eve suffrage march, Alice Paul,

676
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: the organizer, was really worried what would happen if she

677
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: allowed black women to march with her fellow suffragist. She said,

678
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: as far as I can see, we must have a

679
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: white procession or a Negro procession, or no procession at all.

680
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 1: And we've talked about this before on the podcast. But uh,

681
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 1: anti lynching crusader and fantastic journalist and activist, I'd to

682
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 1: be wells uh wanted to march with the Illinois Faction,

683
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 1: but they totally freaked out and said that she needed

684
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:08,839
Speaker 1: to walk in the back of the parade. But this

685
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 1: is the parade right where she stepped out from the

686
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 1: crowd into the front of the march. Yes, I knew

687
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 1: Wells was not going to sit in the back of

688
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 1: the bus. Um, and there were not because of the

689
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 1: straight up racism that especially, And again, who we are

690
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 1: two white women sitting in a studio bubble in the South,

691
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,959
Speaker 1: and it was largely suffragists from the South as well

692
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 1: who were not cool with black women marching alongside them. Well,

693
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 1: which harkens back to Susan B. Anthony, who, yes, she

694
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 1: has deemed a feminist and suffrage just heroin, but she

695
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 1: made it very clear that she was going to fight

696
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: for white women's rights before she would fight for the

697
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 1: rights of black people. Yeah. And it's like and it's uh,

698
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:03,480
Speaker 1: it's so it's so complicated too, because she and Frederick Douglas,

699
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: famed abolitionists, were buds, you know, and and even upon

700
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: his death, Um, she was heartbroken. But it came a

701
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 1: point with the Fifteenth Amendment when she was like, you know,

702
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:20,760
Speaker 1: I'll die before I support more men's rights. Negroman's rights

703
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: and not women's rights. And at that point Douglas was like, okay,

704
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: sus So, alright, su you you'll lost me now. But

705
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: while the racism in the suffrage movement is better known,

706
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: I think these days when it comes to that iconic parade, UM,

707
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff has been sort of, you know,

708
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 1: just like brush aside, like let's not talk about it.

709
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: These are some really great Google women's results. Let's not that, UM.

710
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 1: But you do have a people like Mary Walton, who

711
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: was a founding member of the Delta Sigma Theta Black Sorority,

712
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 1: who along with UM, I think it was a little

713
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: over a dozen of those founding members marched as well.

714
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 1: They were like, you know what, some of these ladies

715
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: are hella racist, but we don't care. We want the vote. UM.

716
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 1: But on top of that, something that I learned through

717
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 1: our research was how violent the parade quickly became because

718
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: this was also um drunk white dudes who were partying

719
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: it up because of inauguration, And suddenly you have all

720
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 1: these thousands of ladies tiptoeing down the street. I shouldn't

721
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 1: say tiptoing, they were marging down the street, parading down

722
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:42,280
Speaker 1: the street, and they started throwing stuff at them, spitting

723
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: on them somewhere outright assaulted uh. And they sent like

724
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 1: a hundred women to the hospital, and they had to

725
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: call in the cavalry for crowd control. Helen Keller y'all

726
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,280
Speaker 1: was at the parade and she was like, I cannot

727
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: handle this. This is like way too much chaos. Um. Meanwhile,

728
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: though we we are told about it through our our

729
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 1: history as just this thing that went off without a hitch,

730
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: and and look at all these ladies marching for their rights,

731
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:18,839
Speaker 1: whereas it was total chaos um. But we don't hear

732
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: about that nineteen seventeen L a c. P. March which

733
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 1: went off without a hitch. If you look at the

734
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: New York Times reports on that march, the reporters are

735
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 1: astonished at not only the silence, but also just how

736
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: seamless it was. So if we march into January one

737
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 1: with our historical vision corrected at least a bit, there's

738
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 1: still the question of the impact. What is the biggest

739
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:02,880
Speaker 1: impact this one day can have? I mean, can this

740
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 1: really change anything? It can not by itself, though it

741
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 1: can if all of the people who are angry and

742
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:18,959
Speaker 1: impassionate enough to go march and make themselves visible continue

743
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 1: that momentum through the rest of the year, which is

744
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 1: what you and I talked about. It's it's less just

745
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:31,919
Speaker 1: showing up at the march and checking that box and more. Yeah, sure,

746
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 1: show up at the march, allow yourself to be motivated

747
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 1: and inspired, and take those feelings of motivation and inspiration

748
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 1: back into your community and help your community, and advocate

749
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 1: and activate. That's not a thing, sure it is? Is

750
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:52,720
Speaker 1: it okay? And advocate and activate for people who don't

751
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,840
Speaker 1: live in the same Uh. I guess like studio bubble

752
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: of privilege that you and I are in right now

753
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,839
Speaker 1: are recording studio bubble privilege. Absolutely, And um, I am

754
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:08,280
Speaker 1: preaching to my own choir because this is a personal

755
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: challenge that that I need to follow up on as well.

756
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 1: I have done minimal feet on the street activism. I

757
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:22,240
Speaker 1: get quote unquote too busy to do so many things

758
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: that I should be doing. Um and even just in

759
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 1: terms of setting up, you know, recurring donations to organizations

760
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:35,879
Speaker 1: that I can't necessarily participate in all the time because

761
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 1: we can't do all of the things all the time. UM.

762
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:42,279
Speaker 1: So this has been definitely a wake up call for me.

763
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:46,919
Speaker 1: And I hope that listeners you understand that that I

764
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 1: am here. I am here too. Um by no means

765
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 1: am I saying this from a position of like, be

766
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:57,800
Speaker 1: like me, because I've pretty much been a perfect, perfect

767
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: white ally in in all ways. Um. And we have

768
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 1: to remember that this also doesn't start January twenty one, right,

769
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 1: this starts now. Yeah, we have to start doing what

770
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 1: we can right now. Um. As Natasha Vargus Cooper, who's

771
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 1: a journalist and she was a former organizer and field

772
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 1: coordinator for the Service Employment International Union UH emphasized in

773
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 1: a piece for The New York Times Room for Debate

774
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 1: a while back, when they were really focusing in on

775
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 1: the occupy movement and also contrasting it to the Tea

776
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:39,839
Speaker 1: Party movement, which was happening simultaneously, Vargus Cooper wrote, at

777
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 1: their best, protests can be an important tactic, but only

778
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 1: a tactic as opposed to an effective strategy. Political and

779
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 1: social change comes only through hard, prolonged and persistent organizing,

780
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 1: the sort of nitty gritty, painstaking and frustrating work of

781
00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: persuasion that few professional protesters can be othered with. And

782
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 1: I would jump off of that too, and say that

783
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 1: few millennials in general are even used to We're used

784
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 1: to having things very quickly. We're used to expecting change swiftly,

785
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 1: and that is our measure. Measure of success is like

786
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 1: how fast can you make social justice go viral? And

787
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: that's just not how our communities work. Did you see

788
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:28,720
Speaker 1: kristin the document the Google doc that's been flitting around

789
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 1: on Twitter, um that was written anonymously by people who

790
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 1: have worked in government and on campaigns, kind of highlighting

791
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:40,759
Speaker 1: uh TEA party strategies for how they were able to

792
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 1: with a relatively small number of people infiltrate government influence elections.

793
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:50,800
Speaker 1: UM continue to be like really irritating to their members

794
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 1: of Congress and keep calling, keep showing up, pull off

795
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 1: some real good colonial costumes. Yeah, if only that's all.

796
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: It were just cosplay. Some some try try a tricorn hat. Well,

797
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 1: tricorn tricorn. Yeah, three three years of corn come together,

798
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 1: that's all we need exactly. Well, Um, this doc is

799
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 1: circulating to encourage people, presumably like some of the people

800
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 1: who were going to the march in January, to take

801
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 1: more long term, slow and steady, effective action. Michael Kaizen

802
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 1: who's a professor at history at Georgetown UH and a

803
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 1: co editor of Dissent and the author of American Dreamers.

804
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 1: Have the Left Changed in Nation? Also wrote at Peace

805
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 1: in twelve for The New York Times Room for Debate

806
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 1: and said that as the Tea partiers have showed to

807
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 1: have political impact in the short term, one must also

808
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 1: know how to exploit the forms you already have, in

809
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 1: other words, calling your senators, your representatives, working within government,

810
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: whether you are running for office or or going out

811
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 1: and incur uraging others to run for office. Maybe you're

812
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 1: supporting people with donations, maybe you're encouraging brilliant people that

813
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 1: you know to run UM. But the desire and the

814
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 1: drive to just blow up the current system UM is

815
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 1: something that's like really click baity and can get a

816
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: lot of really great headlines and think pieces written about it.

817
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 1: But to affect long term change and dismantle those long

818
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 1: term systems of oppression, it takes longer term work as well.

819
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: So I think we've emphasized the point a lot that, uh,

820
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 1: this thing takes work and we need to do better,

821
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: especially the more privilege we enjoy. UM. Probably the blinder

822
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: we are to a lot of issues and that does

823
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 1: not make us bad people. It just means that we

824
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 1: have some work to do. You know, again, like, don't

825
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 1: take it personally. Don't take it as a character attack

826
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: unless you are a poor character, in which case do better.

827
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 1: So what is your plan for the protest, Caroline? So

828
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to d C with a group

829
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 1: of women and my boyfriend too. He's a boyfriend. Dog

830
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 1: is a great ally. Um. But I'm going to start,

831
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 1: I think, the night before by talking to these women,

832
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 1: some of whom I don't know and have never met,

833
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 1: about why they are marching. Because in those early conversations

834
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 1: and planning stages of this march, I think a lot

835
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 1: of what was missing like yes, solidarity and yes women's

836
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 1: rights and human rights and let's get a bunch of

837
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: different people together to be visible. But like I think

838
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 1: a lot of what was missing was a conversation about why,

839
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 1: Like what are we trying to accomplish and how are

840
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 1: we going to use this event as a springboard for

841
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 1: future action. And so one of my first steps that

842
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 1: I want to do related to this march is talk

843
00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 1: to those women that I'm going to be sharing a

844
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:06,040
Speaker 1: room with essentially, and hopefully getting some inspiration from them.

845
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 1: Once I go to the march, I plan to be

846
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 1: carrying a sign with my mittens. What's your sign? Gonna say? Well,

847
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 1: so I want it's got to be a two sided sign,

848
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: right Like it's got to be dynamic. Is one side

849
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 1: pussy grabs back? Um, that's my whole being. So I

850
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 1: think one side I'm going to I need to like

851
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 1: come up with a pithy something or other, but like

852
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 1: one side I need to indicate, like hey, cheetah with

853
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 1: a wig, I'm watching you, I'm here, I'm not going away.

854
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to keep my eye on you and fight back.

855
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 1: And the other side again need to come up with

856
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 1: something a little more concise than all of that. But

857
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 1: I want to indicate that I am here to be

858
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 1: an ally and that this march is about solidarity, and

859
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 1: I want to put my I want to put my

860
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 1: put your mittens where your mouth. Yes, yes, that's perfect um.

861
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 1: And I don't know what you can do with that

862
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: message with just a sign, but I am going to

863
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: try to indicate that those are my goals that I

864
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:20,680
Speaker 1: am here as a body that's in front of Donald

865
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 1: Trump's administration to show that I'm here, and I'm not

866
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 1: going to stop paying attention to the things that they're doing,

867
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: but also that I am using this as an opportunity

868
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 1: to show myself as an ally someone who will do

869
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: my best to be a voice in a platform for others.

870
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, well what about you? Uh So, I don't

871
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 1: know if I'm going to go to the march, to

872
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:44,439
Speaker 1: be completely honest, and it has nothing to do with

873
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 1: uh disagreeing with organization or any of the critiques that

874
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 1: we've spent a lot of time talking about. UM. I

875
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 1: my gut just tells me that there's a lot of

876
01:00:57,800 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 1: work to be done here where we live, in Atlanta,

877
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 1: And I wonder whether the money that I would spend

878
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 1: traveling could be better spent because I don't have a

879
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 1: lot of it, UM, could be better spent investing it

880
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 1: in the community, you know. And an organization's UM that desperately, desperately,

881
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 1: desperately needs support, especially at the grassroots level. And I'm

882
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 1: hoping that there's going to be some kind of demonstration

883
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: in tandem with the Women's March. I know that there

884
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: are satellite marches happening all around the country for people

885
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 1: who can't afford to take off time from work to

886
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 1: go travel to Washington, which, if that's the case, y'all, seriously,

887
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 1: don't beat yourself up over that. It is. It is

888
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 1: also a matter of privilege to to be able to

889
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 1: go and even attend this. And I and I think

890
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 1: what we've heard from some listeners on this that very topic.

891
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 1: Um but I think this is a great moment to

892
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 1: for people to kind of turn inward and think, Okay, well,

893
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 1: I want what can I do to help others to

894
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 1: dismantle these systems? Well, okay, I can't afford to go

895
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 1: to d C or I can't afford to donate hundreds

896
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 1: of dollars to various charities and nonprofits. But what are

897
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:19,440
Speaker 1: the things that I have within my power to do

898
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 1: to change at least my corner of the world for

899
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 1: the better? And I think that this serves even if

900
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 1: you can't go, or even if you do that, this

901
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 1: is the perfect opportunity to be thinking about that and

902
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 1: put those steps in action. Yeah, I mean, yeah, definitely

903
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:40,439
Speaker 1: the latter part of that, because we I I'll say,

904
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 1: I'll I'll personalize this. I have thought too much and

905
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 1: acted too little. Um So my money where my mouth

906
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 1: is is going right now to UM recurring monthly donations

907
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 1: because I can't drop a bucket of dollars a bucket

908
01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 1: of duckets at a time, So I have monthly recurring

909
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 1: donations set up right now to the Southern Poverty Law Center,

910
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 1: which if you are not familiar with them, check them out.

911
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 1: They're doing such important legal advocacy work UM to protect

912
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 1: and preserve civil rights. I just said protect and preserve.

913
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:20,400
Speaker 1: Those are synonyms, but y'all get it. UM. And I'm

914
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 1: also doing the same thing to the Center for Reproductive

915
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 1: Rights because they also are on the front lines of suing,

916
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: for instance, Texas right now as we're recording this UM

917
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:41,800
Speaker 1: of to stop their proposed fetal tissue funeral law that

918
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:46,160
Speaker 1: they're trying to pass. UM, so really trying to focus

919
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 1: in on UM supporting the people like them, the A

920
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:53,960
Speaker 1: C l U, and others who are really going to

921
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 1: be on the front lines of all of the legal

922
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 1: fights that are gonna be coming up, especially with UM

923
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 1: the ointment of a new Supreme Court justice, which is

924
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:08,919
Speaker 1: really unsettling UM. And so far here in Atlanta, I'm

925
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 1: gearing up to begin volunteering at the Feminist Women's Health

926
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 1: Collective UM and there's a waiting list, so I need

927
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 1: to find another another outlet, UM. But there's a waiting

928
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 1: list to become a Planned Parenthood clinic escort UM as

929
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 1: at volunteer escort because you know, people need escorts in

930
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 1: through through all the protesters outside of planned parenthood clinics.

931
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:41,800
Speaker 1: So That's where I'm at right now, and it does not,

932
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 1: by any means feel like enough. UM. So I just

933
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 1: want to keep challenging myself. And I gotta say that

934
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 1: you all listening have been so inspirational for helping me

935
01:04:56,720 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 1: recognize the ways that I need to and can do better.

936
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 1: And UM also inspiring for all of the work that

937
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 1: that you all do in your day to day So thanks,

938
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:09,520
Speaker 1: and now we want to hear from you. Are you

939
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 1: going to the march? Are you fired up about activism?

940
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 1: What UH causes are you supporting? UM? How are you

941
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:23,360
Speaker 1: using the resources that you have to make the change

942
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:25,560
Speaker 1: you want to see in the world. Mom Stuff at

943
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:28,600
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com is our email address. You

944
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 1: can also tweet us at mom Stuff Podcast. I also

945
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:36,680
Speaker 1: suggest that you follow us as individuals on Twitter. I'm

946
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 1: at Kristen Conger, i am at the Caroline Earv and

947
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 1: We've got a couple of messages to share with you

948
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:51,160
Speaker 1: right now. So I have a letter here from Kiddessa

949
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:55,120
Speaker 1: in response to our retail hell episode. Uh. She says,

950
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 1: I started writing you a letter about just in time scheduling,

951
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:00,840
Speaker 1: only to fall into a deep hole at work of

952
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:03,200
Speaker 1: my employees and not showing up for their shifts and

953
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:06,120
Speaker 1: not calling or answering calls about their absence. It all

954
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,919
Speaker 1: made me realize the real reasons so many managers fall

955
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 1: into just in time scheduling. You, unfortunately can't always count

956
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 1: on your employees to follow through when you most need them.

957
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 1: That's absolutely not to say that all of my employees

958
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:21,080
Speaker 1: are flaky or unreliable. The vast majority are wonderful. But

959
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 1: in every store there's a wild card that could easily

960
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 1: swing towards that detrimental unreliable state. I'm the manager of

961
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:30,320
Speaker 1: a store in near several ski areas, with both a

962
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 1: ton of tourists year round and a vast majority of

963
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:35,640
Speaker 1: my workforce only available part time, with sometimes up to

964
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 1: three other jobs because of the difficult climate for hiring

965
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 1: and retention. The living wage in my area for one

966
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 1: adult no children is eleven seventy eight an hour. And

967
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 1: the majority of businesses in the county pay just sense

968
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:49,960
Speaker 1: above that there are few employees that remain in their

969
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 1: positions for any real amount of time to earn annual

970
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:56,680
Speaker 1: or merit races, let alone benefits such as insurance. I

971
01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:59,360
Speaker 1: make an above livable salary for the area and often

972
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:02,240
Speaker 1: feel guilt seeing my employees struggle to get by though

973
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 1: my efforts to get them over time, hours and to

974
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:06,360
Speaker 1: a point where I can give them a sizeable rays,

975
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 1: often in with employees that don't care enough to stick

976
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 1: it out, and in the severe shortage of decent, affordable

977
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 1: housing and childcare here, it is no wonder people are

978
01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:19,480
Speaker 1: constantly in flux in all aspects of their lives. As

979
01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:21,040
Speaker 1: much as I would love to be able to write

980
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 1: my store schedules more than three weeks out, the fact

981
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 1: is if I do, I end up having to make

982
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:28,080
Speaker 1: drastic changes later on or anyway, which is maybe worse

983
01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 1: for my employees than not having schedules at all. It

984
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 1: all stinks, but it absolutely is the reality for many

985
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 1: retail managers and in turn for their employees. I hope

986
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 1: one day in the not so far future, I'm able

987
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 1: to say that I have a stable staff with schedule

988
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 1: six weeks out. But until then, I guess we all

989
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:46,680
Speaker 1: just have to keep pushing forward, working to resolve the

990
01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 1: other factors that contribute to the need for just in

991
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 1: time scheduling. Thanks for all you do. Your voices have

992
01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:55,200
Speaker 1: given me so much hope and joy in dark times

993
01:07:55,200 --> 01:07:58,320
Speaker 1: over the last year. Well, thank you, Kiddessa. So I

994
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:02,400
Speaker 1: have a letter here from about our retail hell episode,

995
01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 1: and she is studying fashion history and wrote in to

996
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:12,720
Speaker 1: clear up some historical details about the millinery and haberdashery

997
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:18,760
Speaker 1: departments in uh, that original department store that we referenced.

998
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 1: So Nicole writes, while we tend to think of them

999
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 1: as gendered today, that was not the case back then.

1000
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 1: Milliners dealt in anything fashionable that was not fitted to

1001
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:32,840
Speaker 1: the body, sort of like accessories. In fact, it was

1002
01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:36,639
Speaker 1: the development of department stores that caused milliners to switch

1003
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:40,400
Speaker 1: to only selling hats. Men, women, and children would all

1004
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:46,280
Speaker 1: shop in these stores. They would sell shirts, stockings, shoes, buckles, jewelry, hats, fans,

1005
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:50,440
Speaker 1: children's gowns, and so much more. They even sold fashionable

1006
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:53,800
Speaker 1: items for your life and house, like tobacco, tea, or

1007
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 1: even t sets and tables. Much of what they sold

1008
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 1: was imported and pre made. It was actually an almost

1009
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:04,880
Speaker 1: entirely female owned and employed trade. Man milliners were often

1010
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:08,840
Speaker 1: made fun of and even had satirical plays written about them.

1011
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 1: It was a highly lucrative business to run and own,

1012
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:14,080
Speaker 1: and many women did very well for themselves. Of course,

1013
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:16,519
Speaker 1: the employees were often pretty young women to get young

1014
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:18,720
Speaker 1: men to do more shopping, but that's a whole other

1015
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:22,640
Speaker 1: subject unto itself. Haberdashers, on the other hand, sell what

1016
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:26,000
Speaker 1: we might term notions for sewing in the light. At

1017
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:28,680
Speaker 1: this point, people were not sowing their own clothing but

1018
01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:32,720
Speaker 1: went to tailor's and mantua makers instead. You wouldn't just

1019
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:38,040
Speaker 1: show up at the door, but would have purchased your fabrics, linings, interlinings, buttons, trim,

1020
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:41,800
Speaker 1: and even thread for whatever you wanted stitched up. Haberdashers

1021
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 1: would have sold much of that, as well as needles, pins,

1022
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:46,720
Speaker 1: and more. The idea of them selling men's attire is

1023
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:51,880
Speaker 1: actually a more modern American concept. So overall, that retail

1024
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 1: store would have been a slightly expanded version of a

1025
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 1: milliner's shop, but giving it a different name would make

1026
01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:00,439
Speaker 1: it more acceptable for men to be running it. Heho

1027
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 1: I hope you found this little tidbit of history interesting

1028
01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 1: up Nicole. To say the least, milliners and mantua makers

1029
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:11,320
Speaker 1: are absolutely fascinating as a study of feminist history if

1030
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 1: you ever want to look into them. And my answer

1031
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:17,639
Speaker 1: is yes and yes. So thank you Nicole for giving

1032
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:22,280
Speaker 1: us that little history lesson and listeners, we want to

1033
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:24,800
Speaker 1: hear from you, mom. Stuff at how stuff works dot

1034
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:27,439
Speaker 1: com is our email address and for links to all

1035
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:30,599
Speaker 1: of our social media as well as all of our blogs, videos,

1036
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:34,400
Speaker 1: and podcasts with our sources, you can head over to

1037
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:41,680
Speaker 1: stuff mom Never Told You dot com. For more on

1038
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:44,439
Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff works

1039
01:10:44,479 --> 01:10:52,560
Speaker 1: dot com.