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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast I
Speaker 1: Am Devin, joined as always by Joe and Steve. Today
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about a mystery, why the disappearance? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was suggested by everyone. Yeah, this is a popular one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: including uh, Sarah, Geen, Julian and Stephanie. They were the
Speaker 1: first four and lots of others. Um and if you
Speaker 1: don't check the names of the episodes before you start
Speaker 1: listening to them, now I get to tell you we're
Speaker 1: going to talk about the disappearance of Brian Schaeffer today.
Speaker 1: Brian Shaffer, who's that. He's a guy who disappeared weirdly,
Speaker 1: really like out of a bar or something. This I
Speaker 1: know is a pet case for a lot of people
Speaker 1: in general. So here's my typical. We're probably going to
Speaker 1: leave some of your favorite details out because there's a
Speaker 1: lot of risks disclaimer exactly, But we don't really need
Speaker 1: a little ears disclaimer, which is great. This is a yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just it's really weird. I would say endless speculation,
Speaker 1: I have to say to on the interne Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: tons of it. It's kind of I would say it's
Speaker 1: akin almost to the mar Murray case. And that realistically
Speaker 1: is first. As far as confirmed details that we absolutely
Speaker 1: positively know, there's not that much. There four pages of
Speaker 1: details and about seventy million pages of conjecture, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: I don't think even four pages of details. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think including the videotapes yea. Yeah. But basically, the overview
Speaker 1: of this case is a guy walks into a bar
Speaker 1: and disappears forever. That is the worst joke ever. Yea
Speaker 1: guy walks into a bar. Bartender says, what is this
Speaker 1: a joke? Okay, So let's start at the top. Brian
Speaker 1: Schaefer was twenty seven when he disappeared, and he was
Speaker 1: a medical student at the University of Ohio. It was
Speaker 1: his second year and he had two more years until
Speaker 1: he would become a doctor, So he was halfway through,
Speaker 1: two more years until he starts the suffering process of
Speaker 1: being a resident and everything else well tech nically, yeah, true,
Speaker 1: but two more years, two more years of medical school. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he had been in school the entire time. He did
Speaker 1: the high school, the undergrad and microbiology and then onto
Speaker 1: the grad program he was in. It wasn't one of
Speaker 1: those guys who took a break at some point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it took him a little longer to do his
Speaker 1: undergrad than four years, six years, which is okay, especially
Speaker 1: something like microbiologists. As long as it didn't stop from
Speaker 1: getting into med school, then no biggie. Yeah. By all accounts,
Speaker 1: he was a very smart, very nice guy. He was
Speaker 1: apparently a talented musician as well, often maybe joking but
Speaker 1: kind of seriously not joking. You know the joke where
Speaker 1: people you know reveal their deepest, darkest wishes by quote
Speaker 1: unquote joking around about it. Favorite podcast, Yeah, yeah, it
Speaker 1: does not anyway. His his go to joke was that
Speaker 1: the doctor thing was just until his musical career took off.
Speaker 1: S actually plan a second career just in case that
Speaker 1: didn't happen. It's very true because he wanted to be
Speaker 1: Jimmy Buffett. Yeah, and there's already one Jimmy Buffett. He
Speaker 1: would have to murder the other Jimmy Buffett. Well, and
Speaker 1: he was really into pearl Jam. Well, you want to actually,
Speaker 1: you want to actually hear a funny, weird bit of
Speaker 1: factoried about Jimmy Buffett. Okay, okay, so you know there's
Speaker 1: the whole Margaritaville lifestyle that Jimmy Buffett has been selling
Speaker 1: for years. He doesn't live that lifestyle. It was from
Speaker 1: the very beginning he said, I'm going to sell people
Speaker 1: this lifestyle and they have been paying him for it
Speaker 1: for decades. Yeah, but how does he actually live? Is
Speaker 1: he like a non drinking guy. He lives in New Jersey.
Speaker 1: He's just your he's your normal runabout guy who doesn't
Speaker 1: drink much. He's not into the beach lifestyle. And he's like, no,
Speaker 1: I sing music and people buy my stuff and I
Speaker 1: live well off of it. Yeah, now it makes sense.
Speaker 1: Smart guy is a smart business man. Yeah, so Brian
Speaker 1: Schaefer back to our topic. Yes, like I said, he
Speaker 1: was also into pearl Jam. He had a pearl Jam
Speaker 1: tattoo on him like the stickman or whatever. Yeah, given
Speaker 1: the peace sign or something like that, or big Hug
Speaker 1: or something. He had a good relationship with his family,
Speaker 1: which was his mother Renee, his father Randy, and his
Speaker 1: younger brother Derek. Unfortunately, Renee lost a long battle with
Speaker 1: a particularly bad type of cancer called it's it's bone cancer.
Speaker 1: It's it's bone marrow cancer, my yellow plastic syndrome. So
Speaker 1: it's that kind of something that's kind of similar to
Speaker 1: what you call it. That's it. Yeah, the word balacting
Speaker 1: on the tip of my fulcon with my brain. Yeah. Now,
Speaker 1: but it's it's like a bone marrow thing it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So basically the formation of blood, yeah, exactly. And so
Speaker 1: it was a long, kind of painful battle for her.
Speaker 1: She she did unfortunately lose that battle in March of
Speaker 1: two thousand six. Her passing was hard on the whole family. Um.
Speaker 1: But those close to Brian said that he was taking it.
Speaker 1: He at least outwardly, was taking it really well, but
Speaker 1: they suspected that he was not taking it as well
Speaker 1: as it seemed like, Yeah, you know, I gotta tell
Speaker 1: you that I haven't met to a couple of those
Speaker 1: long lingering all those things myself with my parents that
Speaker 1: by the time it's all over, you know, you've actually
Speaker 1: done a lot of your all the grief is really
Speaker 1: kind of behind you already, so you're kind of just
Speaker 1: ready to start living your life again exactly. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: also you know, missing your parents. No, it still sucks,
Speaker 1: but I mean it's still it's not a it's not
Speaker 1: a real shock to the system like that they suddenly
Speaker 1: get killed in a rec Yeah, and you've had your
Speaker 1: time to say goodbye and all that stuff. At Ohio
Speaker 1: State University in two thousand six, spring break started on
Speaker 1: marcht one, Friday that year. Every year usually springbreak starts
Speaker 1: on Friday, except that one year where it was really
Speaker 1: a lame and it started on Wednesday. Yeah. Ever, I
Speaker 1: feel like they'd be kind of nice, but I'd have
Speaker 1: to go all the way to the next Friday. It
Speaker 1: would be lame if it was literally, Oh got it okay, anyway, sorry,
Speaker 1: back to our case. Um, it started on Friday, the
Speaker 1: March one, which of two thousand and six, which is
Speaker 1: which is April Fool's Eve, but also the same month
Speaker 1: that Renee Brian's mom had passed away. We don't I
Speaker 1: don't have a date necessarily for that. I was three
Speaker 1: weeks before, yeah, right, But I don't have like a
Speaker 1: specific date, which is fine, I think. But recently Brian
Speaker 1: had planned to go to Florida, Miami, specifically with his
Speaker 1: girlfriend Alexis for the bulk of spring break, where he
Speaker 1: was reportedly planning to propose to her. Are we going
Speaker 1: to talk about that part later on? I assume what
Speaker 1: Florida know the whole proposed, planned to propose? Bit um?
Speaker 1: What about it? Well, so I see this everywhere and
Speaker 1: it really sticks in my crop because she's the one
Speaker 1: who seems to say it. I mean, was a ring
Speaker 1: ever found in his stuff? Like his brother is the
Speaker 1: one who brought it up first. Okay, but was a
Speaker 1: ring ever found among his possessions? I don't want to know.
Speaker 1: I have heard not that he had not bought a ring,
Speaker 1: which makes that doesn't think? I mean, I'll just say, yes, okay,
Speaker 1: traditionally he would have a ring and blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: But I'm bothered by that bubble gum machine and get
Speaker 1: the plastic toy ring. But a planning ahead, it should
Speaker 1: have been somewhere maybe yeah, or maybe he was going
Speaker 1: to do it without a ring, which is also fine
Speaker 1: because from what I have heard or talked to a
Speaker 1: number of people, I know they say, I don't want
Speaker 1: to buy a ring because I know she's going to
Speaker 1: want to help pick it out. So he says, Okay,
Speaker 1: we'll go pick out a ring. I'm gonna buy it
Speaker 1: for you. You'll have the perfect ring. And I don't
Speaker 1: trust myself, blah blah blah. What don't you get yeah?
Speaker 1: Or you know, just no heir fiance well enough, or
Speaker 1: maybe had it all planned out to wander into a
Speaker 1: jewelry store in Florida and then just like say you
Speaker 1: like that, right, okay, I'll buy it. Then you get
Speaker 1: on your knees and say and then she says no, yeah,
Speaker 1: or you don't even buy it yet, you buy ideal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but then that next to the rest of the vacation.
Speaker 1: A little bit uncomfortable, of course, but at least you
Speaker 1: saved a lot of bucks, but not buying the jewelry. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: so regardless of the ring. Oh yeah, that's okay. I
Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying. Um, But the first time
Speaker 1: I thought said was from his brother, and it's my
Speaker 1: understanding that he had talked a little bit about it
Speaker 1: when he was out to dinner with his father on
Speaker 1: the thirty first as well. But yes, I agree, And
Speaker 1: also it was a little weird to me because they've
Speaker 1: only been together for a year. But the ring that
Speaker 1: bothers you, Okay, sure, no evidence of the actual intention
Speaker 1: to make it not well one bothers me at all.
Speaker 1: I guess yeah, I was gonna say either way, it
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter because they had planned to go to
Speaker 1: Miami for a week together. They were in a serious,
Speaker 1: committed relationship to each other. That's really all I guess
Speaker 1: we really need to know about it. Anyhow, Brian's father, Randy,
Speaker 1: came into town to visit and celebrate springbreak with Brian.
Speaker 1: Is always how you will see it reported that they
Speaker 1: were there to celebrate spring break. I really think Randy
Speaker 1: was just thinking, you know what, my wife just died. Um,
Speaker 1: I really care about my son, and I you know,
Speaker 1: care about both of my children, and I just, you know,
Speaker 1: I want to see him and this is a great excuse,
Speaker 1: and maybe he wanted to see how he was doing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: see how he's doing, spend some quality time with him.
Speaker 1: Knowing he was going to leave for a whole week,
Speaker 1: you know, just a couple of weeks after his wife
Speaker 1: and and Brian's mom had passed away, you know, just
Speaker 1: kind of yeah, I think it's a check. It's a
Speaker 1: check and also just a you know, nice time to
Speaker 1: see him. So they went out to dinner that night
Speaker 1: or that evening, I guess, to a steakhouse. It's not
Speaker 1: really clear what time it was, but I do think
Speaker 1: it was like evening time, like you know, five six o'clock.
Speaker 1: And Randy said that it seems like Brian was tired.
Speaker 1: That to you, yeah, it sounded like he had been
Speaker 1: pulling a lot of all nighters for exams that were
Speaker 1: coming up. I could never do that. That's not a
Speaker 1: great idea. I was really good at the all nighters.
Speaker 1: It was the staying then staying up for the exam
Speaker 1: the next day and actually being able to actually think
Speaker 1: cohera during the exam that was kind of tough. And
Speaker 1: here's the pro tip for all of you listeners who
Speaker 1: are still in school. It actually is like scientifically proven
Speaker 1: better for you to sleep because your brain will actually
Speaker 1: retain the information. So go to sleep, stop listening to us,
Speaker 1: go to sleep, wake up for your finals tomorrow. You're
Speaker 1: going to be fine. I had a cool hall listenation
Speaker 1: and final exam one time from pulling an all night.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, we can talk about that later.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that, yeah. Um. Randy said interviews after
Speaker 1: Brian disappeared that he remembered feeling like he didn't think
Speaker 1: Brian should go out with his friends as he had
Speaker 1: planned later that night, because he seems so tired. But
Speaker 1: he didn't say anything because you know, Brian's an adult,
Speaker 1: which I think is fair. But you know, when you
Speaker 1: get out there to the bar, you know, loud music
Speaker 1: and the booze is a big energizer for me. I
Speaker 1: don't know about you guys. Yeah, yeah, yes, it's an
Speaker 1: energy at the beginning. And you know usually at that age,
Speaker 1: at that age three years ago, you have some coffee
Speaker 1: or you know, an energy drink or something like that.
Speaker 1: Sometimes to help you out alone, it's probably drinking red
Speaker 1: Bulls or something. So Brian goes out. The main friend
Speaker 1: that he's with is named William Florence, but this guy's
Speaker 1: nickname is Clint, so we're going to call him Clint.
Speaker 1: Brian met Clint at the Ugly Tuna Saluna. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: call it that everything the full name every single time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think. I think it's tuna phobic. I don't um.
Speaker 1: They met at nine pm that night and then started
Speaker 1: bar hopping down kind of a main drag streets a town, right.
Speaker 1: Clint says that at each bar they took a shot,
Speaker 1: then moved on. At about ten pm, Alexis says Brian
Speaker 1: called her because she was visiting her family about a
Speaker 1: couple hours away before, which is like a two and
Speaker 1: a half hour drive from Columbus where they were, or
Speaker 1: like outside of where wherever UM or Ohio State University is.
Speaker 1: I think actually in the beginning of this, I said
Speaker 1: it was University of Idaha or of Ohio that in
Speaker 1: the southland here, man, it's good. Um anyways, it was
Speaker 1: actually os U, so sorry for that earlier. Anyway. Alexis
Speaker 1: says that about ten PM, Brian called her because she,
Speaker 1: like we said, she was visiting her family. Um, just
Speaker 1: to say that he loved her and you know, he
Speaker 1: was out and you know he would see her. It
Speaker 1: was like an hour into the night, I think, is
Speaker 1: where I've seen it. So he must have started drinking
Speaker 1: around nine o'clock. They were, Yeah, they do they have
Speaker 1: that time stamp? Clint said they met at nine pm
Speaker 1: and then they started bar hopping, and you know, I
Speaker 1: suspect she was probably thinking like, I'm gonna go to
Speaker 1: bed soon, and he called her to say good night,
Speaker 1: and he loved her and he was going to be
Speaker 1: out after a drink or two. Your loving Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: figuring he probably had about twelve shots under his belt
Speaker 1: by this time. That was a whole hour. I don't
Speaker 1: think probably, But anyway, an unspecified time after midnight. I
Speaker 1: think it's close after midnight, but it is never actually specified.
Speaker 1: Clinton Brian run into one of Clint's friends named Meredith Reid,
Speaker 1: who then gave them a ride back to the Ugly
Speaker 1: Tuna Saluna. Meredith is a guy, correct, I believe, because
Speaker 1: I mean Meredith is one of those names that can
Speaker 1: be a male or female. And I'm pretty sure it
Speaker 1: was a guy and not a girl, but a girl.
Speaker 1: I initially I was like, oh, it must be a lady,
Speaker 1: but then a bunch of stuff that I read gave
Speaker 1: me the impression that it was all the guys going
Speaker 1: to the last bar. This is very odd. Here's what
Speaker 1: I'll tell you is I watched the crap out of
Speaker 1: the surveillance well, and I can't Well, the surveillance tapes
Speaker 1: are really good, but Brian is standing in front of
Speaker 1: Meredith and walking, and so you can't actually tell. So
Speaker 1: I think, well, I don't know, Stid that they are
Speaker 1: standing on the step below Brian. And Brian was six too,
Speaker 1: so I don't know, not taller than six two plus
Speaker 1: five inches. Um so I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: I believe it's a guy. But again that's positive because
Speaker 1: there's so much weird reporting on this one. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: that's the other thing is I've never seen it. I
Speaker 1: don't think i've ever seen it. Specified I'm like racking
Speaker 1: my brain. Um so, I'm really sorry everyone. I'm going
Speaker 1: to admit there's a lack in my research. Sorry. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I actually think it it's probably is a female
Speaker 1: type person, just simply because I have I have an
Speaker 1: eye for this sort of thing. Like if if, like say,
Speaker 1: on the Wikipedia page, Meredith would have been referred to
Speaker 1: at some point as him or he or something like that.
Speaker 1: Never page problem. It's either either read as in the
Speaker 1: last name or they as in the he or that person.
Speaker 1: And Clint's it's always very gender non specific is what's
Speaker 1: bungling all of us. We're gonna we're gonna make Meredith
Speaker 1: into a girl here. I think I think we're just
Speaker 1: gonna just call Meredith and Clint. We're gonna let Meredith
Speaker 1: stay gender non specifically. Meredith likes it anyway. Meredith gave
Speaker 1: them a ride back to the Ugly Tuna Saluna, where
Speaker 1: they all planned to end their night then go home.
Speaker 1: Brian reportedly got separated from Meredith and Clint at this spot.
Speaker 1: The bar closes at two ammal, which is normal, so
Speaker 1: Clinton Mereth figured they'd wait outside the only exit from
Speaker 1: the bar and they'd fight Brian in the crowd exiting.
Speaker 1: When they didn't see him, they assumed that when they've
Speaker 1: been separated from the bar, Brian had just left without
Speaker 1: telling them, you know, he couldn't find them or whatever. Um.
Speaker 1: The next morning, Alexis tried calling Brian but couldn't get
Speaker 1: ahold of him. His phone went girlfriend Alexis his girlfriend,
Speaker 1: She said his phone went straight to voicemail. She just
Speaker 1: assumed he was, you know, sleeping it off, and so
Speaker 1: she tried it again later Finally on Sunday, when she
Speaker 1: still couldn't get ahold of him, his phone was still
Speaker 1: going straight to voicemail. She called Randy, Brian's father to
Speaker 1: see if he had heard from her him, and he hadn't,
Speaker 1: so they then called the police. Reporting varies on this,
Speaker 1: According to Alexis. On some news news reports that I watched,
Speaker 1: they reported Brian missing Sunday. Wikipedia says that Brian was
Speaker 1: reported missing on Monday. He missed the flight to Miami.
Speaker 1: I don't know which is true. I would tend to
Speaker 1: believe Sunday. It was at least there too, but it
Speaker 1: was a couple of days, at least a couple of days.
Speaker 1: Friday night was the night that And this is something
Speaker 1: as it's not outrageous, but I think it's a little
Speaker 1: odd that Clinton didn't call him the next morning and
Speaker 1: just say, hey, what the hell did where were you?
Speaker 1: Just just to see that he's all right. Well we
Speaker 1: don't I don't know that he didn't. Clinton is like
Speaker 1: after that night Clintons appeared. Yeah, he won't say anything,
Speaker 1: I think, trying to protect himself from the court mass
Speaker 1: negative appeal that. Yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean he's guilty
Speaker 1: of anything. Yeah, either way, Columbus police did get the
Speaker 1: missing person's report, and they acted and totally reasonably. First
Speaker 1: they checked with local hospitals and homeless shelters to make
Speaker 1: sure he hadn't shown up any of those places, like
Speaker 1: you would expect them too. That would be, you know,
Speaker 1: the first place you would expect them to check, because
Speaker 1: did you Well, I mean, people don't understand why the
Speaker 1: cops do that, because if somebody gets let's say, whacked
Speaker 1: on the head and gets a concussion, they can be
Speaker 1: in a weird state. Remember that, there's that for us
Speaker 1: in real time. The report of the guy who was
Speaker 1: on the East Coast when skiing apparently took a tumble
Speaker 1: and they found him a week later in California in
Speaker 1: the same clothes, with no memory of how he got there.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's why. But people are like, why they
Speaker 1: check those places? That's why. Well, the hospital just because
Speaker 1: I mean, you could be unconscious in a hospital, but
Speaker 1: a homeless shelter, you know, anywhere that somebody could be
Speaker 1: warm and get services, pretty much they're going to check
Speaker 1: because for whatever reason, that's where they're going to go
Speaker 1: from there. Well, so obviously Brian was not found either
Speaker 1: of those or any of those places. So then from
Speaker 1: there the investigators starting put together a timeline, basically the
Speaker 1: timeline we just talked about in a minute ago of
Speaker 1: what what Brian had been doing. The only additional detail
Speaker 1: that Clinton Meredith were able to provide is that they
Speaker 1: thought they had seen Brian chatting with the band. And
Speaker 1: I thought that I read in one place again you
Speaker 1: read and all all kinds of different accounts, But he
Speaker 1: had said to them, Hey, I'm going to go talk
Speaker 1: to the band, you know, And that's the last word
Speaker 1: they heard from him, as he said he was actually
Speaker 1: going to go chat with ye. I don't know how much.
Speaker 1: Being a musician, I'm not surprised. I heard that they were.
Speaker 1: This was late and they had actually stopped playing and
Speaker 1: they were starting to break down, and so maybe he
Speaker 1: just wanted to go talking about guitars for a little
Speaker 1: bit or whatever. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know
Speaker 1: if they if you know, Brian said that to them,
Speaker 1: or they just saw him over there or what. But um,
Speaker 1: it does seem that Brian was chatting with the band
Speaker 1: at least at one point. When interviewed, the staff at
Speaker 1: the Ugly Tuna Salona were totally unable or unwilling to
Speaker 1: provide any helpful information, though it seems they were reasonably cooperative.
Speaker 1: It was a bar full of people. How are you
Speaker 1: going to on the first night of spring break? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I had the same thought when I saw this, the
Speaker 1: footage with the security guys, like the security guards, billion
Speaker 1: people come screaming through. Yeah, and realistically, like it's Brian
Speaker 1: isn't insanely He's not. He's not really unique looking? Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah six to you know, reasonably built, white dude with
Speaker 1: brown hair. I mean, unless you're paying attention, like really
Speaker 1: paying attention and looking for him, Yeah, he's kind of Actually,
Speaker 1: I don't look at Brian and you think that's not
Speaker 1: really he's really all American, like he has the all
Speaker 1: American boy. But here's what I'll say is that in
Speaker 1: Ohio there's a lot of all American. Yeah. Yeah. The
Speaker 1: police started searching the area around the Ugly Tuna Salona.
Speaker 1: They checked all the dumpsters in this kind of back alleyway.
Speaker 1: They were hoping to find any kind of clues. There
Speaker 1: were no no clues whatsoever. They searched the rivers and
Speaker 1: the entire campus of Ohio State University with searchdogs and
Speaker 1: didn't find anything. I have two questions. Yeah, I've not
Speaker 1: seen this one. Do we know what day garbage day
Speaker 1: was for those dumpsters? We don't. Okay, I've never seen
Speaker 1: it reported. But that's why nobody seems to know that one.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people who hear as he wind
Speaker 1: up in a dumpster and wind up going to the dogs.
Speaker 1: That happens, I'm sadly to a lot of people. But
Speaker 1: my other question is, because we get just based it
Speaker 1: about this, what kind of search dogs did they use? Dogs?
Speaker 1: Tracker dogs? We know that for sure, certainly, I would
Speaker 1: say within a reasonable I when I was looking, I
Speaker 1: could never figure it out. And because the reason that
Speaker 1: I presume that is because they also I was going
Speaker 1: to save this for a little later, but they also searched.
Speaker 1: They had the dogs come in and sniff her on
Speaker 1: the bar to see if they could track Brian from
Speaker 1: the bar, and they were unable to do that because
Speaker 1: they got sidetracked by the jerky Martini. Probably yeah, But
Speaker 1: so I presume they used the right kind of dogs. Okay,
Speaker 1: I would assume I had heard some rumor later though,
Speaker 1: that they came back later there was a construction site
Speaker 1: right next door. And then one of the theories is
Speaker 1: he fell. We'll talk about that in a little bit,
Speaker 1: and that it came back with could ever dogs and
Speaker 1: I supposedly got a hit there. Oh yeah, that's yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So they didn't find anything. Then the police just decided, well,
Speaker 1: there is some surveillance footage, I guess, well, and also
Speaker 1: specifically in the Ugly Tuna Saluna entryway. Therefore, I guess
Speaker 1: we can you know, sit an investigator in here and
Speaker 1: to review the what you know, twelve hours of video
Speaker 1: surveillance footage is to see if they can see anything worthwhile.
Speaker 1: So we'll pause here because I don't think that we've
Speaker 1: described how the Ugly Tuna Saluna is set up. This
Speaker 1: is really important. It is actually very I was dumb
Speaker 1: to me until I figured out, Yeah, it is really
Speaker 1: really important. And the reason that I say this is
Speaker 1: because eventually the investigators were able to you even see
Speaker 1: where Brian Clinton Meredith had parked, how they walked from
Speaker 1: the parked car, like, even to the point of which
Speaker 1: of the support beams they walked past up through a
Speaker 1: little corridor area. They could track them all the way
Speaker 1: into the Ugly Tuna Saluna. But there were no surveillance
Speaker 1: cameras in the Ugly Tuna Saluna. So they actually did
Speaker 1: touch the street, and it's not like they parked in
Speaker 1: a parking garage and came through the back door into
Speaker 1: the mall and into the bar. Right, they didn't touch
Speaker 1: a street. So there's a area then, well, I guess
Speaker 1: you'd call it a mall area, but it's like an
Speaker 1: open do we just want to start explaining how this
Speaker 1: whole place is set up because that might be the
Speaker 1: easy to lay the Yeah, that's probably the areat way. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: so it is kind of a mall area in that
Speaker 1: like it's like a like a square area. Kyah. It's
Speaker 1: not like it's not like private closed off to the public,
Speaker 1: but it's not. It's pedestrian all but it's open air. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's open air between High Street, you know, which
Speaker 1: is like on one side, and then there's another sort
Speaker 1: of alley behind there and there's like a block long
Speaker 1: thing which is kind of mall like with a lot
Speaker 1: of bar. Yeah, like a plaza. It's wider than a
Speaker 1: street would be. It's kind of nice view. It's got
Speaker 1: all kinds of cool stuff shops and stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So so the Ugly Tuna Salona is on the second
Speaker 1: floor of one of these buildings. And this is very
Speaker 1: important because it means there's just one way in and
Speaker 1: one way out, and that was that way was under surveillance.
Speaker 1: There's a set of stairs and an escalator that goes
Speaker 1: up and an escalator that goes down, and covered and
Speaker 1: fully covered by one not moving eye of the camera.
Speaker 1: You can see everybody who walks up and down the stairs.
Speaker 1: You can see everybody who comes up and down the escalators,
Speaker 1: And unlike most surveillance cameras, this one's pretty HD. You
Speaker 1: can definitely, I mean I was watching the way that
Speaker 1: I got to see the surveillance footage. Surveillance footage was
Speaker 1: from somebody pointing a camera at their TV at uh,
Speaker 1: you know whatever the NBC dateline, whatever it was, I
Speaker 1: can't remember off the top of my head. And I
Speaker 1: could still very clearly identify the person as Brian Shaefer.
Speaker 1: Uh that you know, you could see kind of being
Speaker 1: tracked on this um no red circles or anything like that.
Speaker 1: So if it was good enough through the like five
Speaker 1: steps of somebody filming their TV with something and then
Speaker 1: uploading it onto YouTube, definitely, yeah. Used to the security
Speaker 1: cameras that take on a t M or something two
Speaker 1: or three second stills. You know, after two or three
Speaker 1: now this thing was shooting continuous video. There is a
Speaker 1: back emergency exit on the first floor. I'm not totally
Speaker 1: clear how one accesses that emergency exit, but I will
Speaker 1: say that that emergency exit I believe is rigged to
Speaker 1: alarm when opened, which sometimes malfunctions, or they might have
Speaker 1: turned it off because it might have also served as
Speaker 1: like a loading dock, like the way for the band
Speaker 1: get in and out. It's possible. That's it's unclear, but possible.
Speaker 1: And there's a motion sensor camera back there as well
Speaker 1: that turns on anytime there's any emotion back there and
Speaker 1: then zoom. It's reportedly zooms in like kind of wear
Speaker 1: a reasonable range of a head would be, so you
Speaker 1: can see a face of whoever is coming out, because
Speaker 1: you know, you're not supposed to use those exits but
Speaker 1: for emergencies, but they want to know. But I had
Speaker 1: heard also there was a like an employee exit, like
Speaker 1: on the south side of the bar. That is, it's
Speaker 1: my understanding that is the employee exit that goes to
Speaker 1: that emergency exit down there. So it's like stairs that
Speaker 1: go to the emergency exitentro on the ground floor, right,
Speaker 1: But I don't really know how Like I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's like you have to go
Speaker 1: through you know, the kitchen and the bar and like
Speaker 1: three other rooms to get to that staircase, or if
Speaker 1: it's just through some curtains that say emergency exit. Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know the difficulties. They haven't published a floor plan.
Speaker 1: It would be nice to have one, would get that, yeah,
Speaker 1: really bapping the bottom of the ocean, but they won't
Speaker 1: map the inside of a bar. Well, it's it's kind
Speaker 1: of like the bottom of the ocean. It's the Ugly
Speaker 1: Tuna saluna a good point. Also, as Joe kind of
Speaker 1: briefly mentioned before, at the time of Brian's disappearance, there
Speaker 1: was also a number of construction exits in that building
Speaker 1: as well, so that you come up, you know, to
Speaker 1: the Ugly Tuna saluna and on the second floor, and
Speaker 1: you know, there's kind of like an entry way area.
Speaker 1: It's not just like straight to the doors. There's a
Speaker 1: little bit of as an open atrium kind of area
Speaker 1: a little bit. It's not it's not huge. It's like
Speaker 1: a theater off to your left right and then there's
Speaker 1: like a hallway ahead of you. I think, I don't
Speaker 1: think the theaters on that one. I don't think that
Speaker 1: the first floor. I think, you know, I always seeing
Speaker 1: as somebody posted a video and it's another one the feeds.
Speaker 1: If the Congress wants to do one useful thing, they
Speaker 1: can and portrait videos. Somebody doing the whole freaking holding
Speaker 1: my iPhone up doing a portrait video going up the
Speaker 1: riding up the escalator to the top at the ugly
Speaker 1: two well, so you can see what it looks like.
Speaker 1: The bars off to the right, straight ahead, there's a
Speaker 1: short white hallway, you know that maybe it goes to
Speaker 1: bathrooms or star rooms or god knows what. And there's
Speaker 1: something off to the left. They can't really tell. It
Speaker 1: looks kind of molly. So from the camera angles, from
Speaker 1: the surveillance camera angle, the escalator comes right up. There's
Speaker 1: like a wall that it comes up and it goes
Speaker 1: straight into the ugly Tuna salona. Basically there's like a
Speaker 1: little I don't know what to really call I guess
Speaker 1: atrium is a fine thing. And then so the camera's
Speaker 1: looking down towards the outside the security camera. Um, so
Speaker 1: the escalators are coming up on the what would be
Speaker 1: the right side, but is on this the left side,
Speaker 1: and then the stairs are on like right next to it,
Speaker 1: to the right, and then the construction area is further
Speaker 1: to the right. Yeah, so it would be to the
Speaker 1: left it, but it may be that it was post construction. Um,
Speaker 1: what we're talking about the same thing. Yeah, And and
Speaker 1: again I'm not really clear and what kind of construction
Speaker 1: they're talking about, because like when this is kind of
Speaker 1: a mall, and in a mall, there's you know, the
Speaker 1: original construction where you pour a concrete and everything and
Speaker 1: put on a roof, and then there's always when some
Speaker 1: tenant leaves and you rip out the walls and you
Speaker 1: reconstruct the whole thing. And you've seen that going on
Speaker 1: the malls, right, So is that the kind of construction
Speaker 1: we're talking about, I'm not clear, A serious heavy duty
Speaker 1: concrete slabs kind of unclear unclear. Um, but through this
Speaker 1: construction site, which I understand was kind of hard to
Speaker 1: navigate even in the light, and you know, had lots
Speaker 1: of construction e hazards. You do, actually not think about it.
Speaker 1: Whoever it was, Dateline or whoever it was, showed some
Speaker 1: footage of the quote unquote construction area, and it almost
Speaker 1: looked like a back section. How you see where there's
Speaker 1: all the pipes for for like malls, all of the
Speaker 1: plumbing runs through one area. Yeah, but I wasn't clear
Speaker 1: if that was I don't know if that's actually that
Speaker 1: or not, but it really gave me the impression that
Speaker 1: it was more of they were doing construction on that
Speaker 1: internal plumbing stuff and not a tenant's location like you
Speaker 1: were talking about. Okay, but regardless, it's it's the only
Speaker 1: way in or out of this whole area is through
Speaker 1: that one camera surveillance thing or through the construction zone
Speaker 1: at the time that Brian Shaffer was probably and probably
Speaker 1: that's because they had torn out a wall and had built,
Speaker 1: but it was it was, you know, full construction zone,
Speaker 1: you know, plywooded off with like a door into it
Speaker 1: and then tons of hazards somewhere you don't want to
Speaker 1: drunk to go wandering base actly. Yeah, and one that
Speaker 1: you would presume would be locked at night when it's
Speaker 1: like nobody needs access to it, but you think so. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So so the guys arrived back at the Ugly Tuna
Speaker 1: Saluna yep at midnight back to Yeah, back the tracking thing.
Speaker 1: They actually they arrive back to the Ugly Tuna saluna
Speaker 1: at about one fifteen am, according to the surveillance camera
Speaker 1: footage that I was watching, the time stamp on it
Speaker 1: and the reporting though, Yes, so I guess they were
Speaker 1: bar hopping with Meredith a little bit before they came
Speaker 1: back to the Ugly Tuna Meredith wherever, right, right, that's
Speaker 1: what I mean. And then about forty minutes later, Brian
Speaker 1: is seen on the same surveillance camera at the top
Speaker 1: of that stairs escalator area. Like I said, the quality
Speaker 1: is really good. You can see it's definitely Brian there.
Speaker 1: It looks a little intoxicated. He doesn't. He does, but
Speaker 1: he doesn't look like sloppy drunk. But he does not
Speaker 1: look sober. Yeah, but drink for four hours. He's definitely
Speaker 1: been drinking for four hours. But he's not like, you know,
Speaker 1: falling all over himself. He's still able to walk and
Speaker 1: and and apparently not be so drunk because there are
Speaker 1: also two security guards standing at the top of the stairs,
Speaker 1: so he's not so drunk that they felt like they
Speaker 1: needed to intervene yea, I noticed that in this video.
Speaker 1: I was just telling you about there's do you go
Speaker 1: out there and there's a security guard standing right there,
Speaker 1: It's like, what a great job that must be. But
Speaker 1: they got them right there, that is, that's how they
Speaker 1: can see the drunks coming right at the escalator and
Speaker 1: just intercept him before I have no idea from the
Speaker 1: bar and turn around and shove them right back down
Speaker 1: to downs. I have no idea, I really don't. But yeah,
Speaker 1: there were two security guards up there, and then there
Speaker 1: are two young women that he can be seen talking to. Uh,
Speaker 1: and there's a group of guys as well, kind of
Speaker 1: off to the side. Yeah. And and some people say, oh,
Speaker 1: these guys followed him in and beat him up, but
Speaker 1: they seem to be standing there. They don't seem to
Speaker 1: be making movement, bottle him or an acknowledges. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: he does. He talks to these two young ladies for
Speaker 1: a minute, and then he walks back into the bar.
Speaker 1: And that's the absolute last time that anybody has ever
Speaker 1: been able to say they've seen Branch officially, officially, well
Speaker 1: not officially. It's the last time that anybody's ever come
Speaker 1: for word and said, is what I'm getting at? Well? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, but nobody's ever even claimed to really see
Speaker 1: him after that. I mean, that's the last time that
Speaker 1: anybody's ever said anything about brand Shaffer existing in this world.
Speaker 1: So that was that one am, this would be, this
Speaker 1: would be before he wants to talk to the band, right,
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's unclear, Okay, Yeah, So it
Speaker 1: was my impression that Meredith and Clint lost track of
Speaker 1: Brian pretty quickly after they got back to the Ugly
Speaker 1: Tuna Salona. So you know, probably like one thirty ish
Speaker 1: would be my guess. I don't know, just guessing, just
Speaker 1: thrown out numbers here and then he could have gone out,
Speaker 1: or it could have been then, but the bar close
Speaker 1: they left the bar, they actually got their seemed going
Speaker 1: back to their car at two oh seven, So it's
Speaker 1: that's a pretty quick time for them to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: we lost track of him, Okay, we'll see him coming out,
Speaker 1: and then wait five minutes and then say, oh, okay, whatever,
Speaker 1: you just went home, I guess. But I didn't go
Speaker 1: inside the bar or check the bathrooms or anything like that.
Speaker 1: I So that's why I think they lost track of
Speaker 1: him much earlier in the night, because it makes way
Speaker 1: more sense even in a drunk brain for them to
Speaker 1: say we haven't seen him in a half hour. He
Speaker 1: probably just went home. He was tired, you know, versus
Speaker 1: we saw five minutes ago. Whoa, I wonder where he went.
Speaker 1: He just must have gone home. It's fine, you know.
Speaker 1: That's my two cents still, And I heard that in
Speaker 1: two thousand and six. That was kind of a bad neighborhood.
Speaker 1: And they really probably shouldn't. They should have checked a
Speaker 1: little more thoroughly. Probably, but you know, they were also drinking,
Speaker 1: and they were they were dropped, and they were young
Speaker 1: and irresponsible. I got it. Yeah. So yeah, that's everything
Speaker 1: we know for sure about Brian Shaffer. Well okay then,
Speaker 1: so um we're about theories. But first we're going to
Speaker 1: take a break. Hello, and welcome to Spontaneous Poetry Night
Speaker 1: here at Thinking Sideways Studios. First, as a master of
Speaker 1: terrible and amazing or really terrible puns me, sky scrapers
Speaker 1: are tall, embankments are small. There's only one true ring
Speaker 1: to rule them all. Wait, that's wrong, Sorry, they hang on,
Speaker 1: hang on link, let me start again. One thousand bad
Speaker 1: guys bullets fly, but none of them hit our good
Speaker 1: guy heroes. Bullets barrel fourth many enemies end up with
Speaker 1: their heads facing north. No, No, that's that's all right,
Speaker 1: all right, here we go. Thors Hammer is huge, and
Speaker 1: so is that dude like that. I don't even know
Speaker 1: where the hell that came from. Um, let's try this
Speaker 1: one more time, because I think I've got it. The
Speaker 1: fence may have known what trouble was brewing and stewing,
Speaker 1: but unfortunately they did not know what they were doing.
Speaker 1: Ha I nailed it. What the heck does that have
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Speaker 1: Our first theory is Aliens abducted him. Okay, I can
Speaker 1: get behind this flushed this out for me. Unlikely. Okay,
Speaker 1: you're just jerking my chain. As soon as I get
Speaker 1: on the alien bandwagon, she jerks the rug out from
Speaker 1: underneath me. Well, if you look at pictures at the
Speaker 1: Egg of Salona, the building it's hand, it actually looks
Speaker 1: kind of like a spaceport. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean
Speaker 1: I could totally see a little mixed up with the
Speaker 1: aliens there. Yeah, honestly, for all we know, somehow without
Speaker 1: anybody else noticing, Brian Shaefer was abducted by aliens from
Speaker 1: the Ugly Tuna Salona after five am the night of
Speaker 1: March Well, I guess by that time April one, two
Speaker 1: thousand and six, what did I say, that's somewhere he
Speaker 1: is currently drafting crop circles for the aliens. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: why not? Why not? I don't, I think, because it's silly.
Speaker 1: Probably not that one. Actually he would be a high
Speaker 1: value one for the aliens. Yeah, probably have medical knowledge
Speaker 1: and stuff, you know, so it makes sense. So he
Speaker 1: is now in charge of the probe program. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: he's their lead scientist on medical humanoid research. Is in
Speaker 1: the bottom of the chain, Yeah anyway, Sorry, More seriously,
Speaker 1: the next theory is that he left to start a
Speaker 1: new life or otherwise take a break. I mean, I can,
Speaker 1: I can kind of see this one. For one thing,
Speaker 1: there's I mean, no evidence of a crime has really
Speaker 1: ever been found. The police brought in prime seen experts
Speaker 1: and dogs see if they can find blood or anything
Speaker 1: to suggest that Brian had been harmed or around the
Speaker 1: Ugly Tuna saluna. Didn't find anything. Although especially if we've
Speaker 1: been murdered in the kitchen, then I sing about murdering
Speaker 1: people in an industrial type kitchen, commercial kitchen, you have
Speaker 1: to clean it every day anyhow, really, and so it's
Speaker 1: a great excuse to go, you know, whereas if I
Speaker 1: cleaned my kitchen, that would be suspicious. Well, if you
Speaker 1: cleaned anything, it would be suspicious. But but but one
Speaker 1: thing I will say is that in a kitchen at
Speaker 1: a pop I mean you at a place like the
Speaker 1: Ugly Tuna sluna, not much blood. Usually around the bloody,
Speaker 1: bloody beef they actually well food. Well even if it isn't.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know this about the meat that we
Speaker 1: get in America, it doesn't ever have actual blood in it.
Speaker 1: It has that thing that it secretes is something totally different.
Speaker 1: Not actually blood. It's been drained of blood. So if
Speaker 1: there's blood in the kitchen, either a chef was real
Speaker 1: bad at doing his job and cut himself or somebody
Speaker 1: was murdered there. Either way, there was no real evidence
Speaker 1: of that in or around the Ugly Tunas Luna as mentioned,
Speaker 1: So you know, so in that respect, it does kind
Speaker 1: of speak to him just walking away and starting life. Yeah.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, like we said, search dogs couldn't
Speaker 1: track a track him out of there, which seems like
Speaker 1: they would have been able to do had he just
Speaker 1: walked out on his own. Also, no activity on any
Speaker 1: of his bank accounts or his cell phone has been reported,
Speaker 1: nor did he take out cash. But if you want
Speaker 1: to start a new life, you know, of course he
Speaker 1: would have all new back accounts and credit cards already
Speaker 1: set up. Sure, you would think he would have cleaned
Speaker 1: out the back accounts. You would think that. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: apparently he wasn't really a cash guy. He didn't really
Speaker 1: carry cash with him, which is like most of people
Speaker 1: in large generation. Um, so his ability to survive without
Speaker 1: account seems unlikely. You millennials flail with cash, yeah, uh,
Speaker 1: plastic and bitcoin mostly. How many bitcoins do you have
Speaker 1: any wallet right now about point o O O O
Speaker 1: five of a bitcoin, so you're you're practically a millionaire
Speaker 1: and they're worth a lot right now. Oh wait, no, wait,
Speaker 1: I have one dollar? Wait a million dollars? Yeah. One
Speaker 1: thing I'll mentioned here is that Alexis did make a
Speaker 1: habit of calling his phone a lot. I think she
Speaker 1: even said it herself. She just wanted to hear his voice,
Speaker 1: which I think is understandable. Yeah, she said that one
Speaker 1: time she called and it rang instead of going streaked
Speaker 1: voicemail singular. That's how old this case is. Brian, then
Speaker 1: cell phone provider, said that it was a fluke. We've
Speaker 1: talked about this on the show before that oftentimes a
Speaker 1: phone will return a ring while it's trying to connect.
Speaker 1: It's not actually ringing to um. One of the things
Speaker 1: that I wondered about what this is how long did
Speaker 1: these calls that she Alexis made to him a lot?
Speaker 1: Because I heard it one out for like six months
Speaker 1: or or more. I can call on the phone. So
Speaker 1: who was paying his phone bill? I think his dad
Speaker 1: was paying him the entire time. I don't think he
Speaker 1: was paying for his own phone bill. That wasn't the
Speaker 1: impression I had at least. Okay, Yeah, so somebody kept
Speaker 1: it just maybe just hoping still had the phone on
Speaker 1: him or something like that. Yeah, I mean I presume
Speaker 1: it was probably a family plan. Um. I was on
Speaker 1: my parents family plan for a long time. Well, especially
Speaker 1: when kids, when your kids are still in school, that's
Speaker 1: the way to ensure that they can always call well,
Speaker 1: but also to ensure they can always call you. You
Speaker 1: don't have an excuse to not call you. But I would,
Speaker 1: you know, if my child went missing. I don't have
Speaker 1: any children, but if I could put myself in those boots,
Speaker 1: I would keep paying the plan if I had no
Speaker 1: idea where that kid was dead or otherwise, just on
Speaker 1: the hope that maybe one day they'd turn it on
Speaker 1: and call me. Yeah, you know, absolutely, I totally get that. Ye. Also,
Speaker 1: you'll see people suggest that Brian had traded clothes with
Speaker 1: someone and snuck out in someone else's clothes. But like
Speaker 1: we said, it was a good camera, and I think
Speaker 1: it's not as though Brian was wearing crazy unique clothing,
Speaker 1: but it was a good enough camera that if somebody
Speaker 1: was leaving leaving something that wearing something that looks kind
Speaker 1: of like his, that would you would be able to
Speaker 1: see it. I don't know. I just I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't think a lot about that theory as a whole.
Speaker 1: Bryan could have it could have actually had on a
Speaker 1: layer of clothes underneath his clothes. And I don't take
Speaker 1: tick clothes off, stuff them in a waste basket in
Speaker 1: the restroom, walk back out with the new the new
Speaker 1: layer of clothes on, you know. And so I mean
Speaker 1: I could see that you don't need to trade clothes
Speaker 1: with somebody or have a cocause it didn't really look
Speaker 1: like he was wearing enough clothes to be wearing something
Speaker 1: under it. But it's possibly could had a T shirt
Speaker 1: on underneath this other shirt. Well, okay, so let me
Speaker 1: stop you because I can tell looking through the list here,
Speaker 1: this is the only theory that you have wherein he
Speaker 1: leaves under his own power. It appears that everything else
Speaker 1: is in some way. Uh, it's it's not so much
Speaker 1: so there there actually is another theory out there where
Speaker 1: he leaves under his own power, but it's similar to this.
Speaker 1: But there are a couple other theories peppered in here
Speaker 1: where he might have left on his own power. Well,
Speaker 1: let's let's just talk about this now while we're here,
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe'll help of the other theories later on.
Speaker 1: Is I, as a younger man, when drinking, I used
Speaker 1: to develop what I called drunk kleptomania, wherein I would
Speaker 1: see something like, let's just say a ball cap and
Speaker 1: be like, oh, that's a nice hat. I'll take it
Speaker 1: and put it on and walk away with it. I had.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like I have a habit of
Speaker 1: stealing things. It just it was like a fascination, and
Speaker 1: so I just kept it. He could have very easily
Speaker 1: picked up a hat or put on somebody's jacket and
Speaker 1: then wandered out there. And while that camera is good
Speaker 1: from behind, if his clothing suddenly, you know, like just
Speaker 1: his say a jacket or a hat, he's now rendered
Speaker 1: not easily identifiable by that camera, maybe not identifiable. So
Speaker 1: he could have potentially just walked out of the bar
Speaker 1: on his own and not had what I'm seeing as
Speaker 1: kind of these nefarious theories down the line. True, don't
Speaker 1: you think a tracker dog would have been able to
Speaker 1: track him? Though? Still they didn't bring him into days after, right, Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's I mean, there's a lot of traffic I mean,
Speaker 1: bars have so many people coming. Plus also that that
Speaker 1: floor that's like like the bar, the bar floor, and
Speaker 1: the floor front the escalator. Probably the escalator probably was
Speaker 1: getting clean mopped vacuum because you know, it was hurt
Speaker 1: all the time. Still drinks and yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: that's definitely al I can picture this. He meets a girl,
Speaker 1: they kind of hit it off. She's a little chilly,
Speaker 1: so he pulls off his shirt he's still wearing a
Speaker 1: T shirt and puts it over her, and so she's
Speaker 1: wearing his shirt and they leave the bar together, you know,
Speaker 1: But then what happens to him after? I mean you
Speaker 1: still have to explain all that. Is that to be like,
Speaker 1: you know, sort of black widow. Now see, I've I've
Speaker 1: thought about this before. Is I figured, well, either he
Speaker 1: walked outside, whether it's with another lady or by himself,
Speaker 1: and then this is where my he crawled into a
Speaker 1: dumpster idea came from, or because it is a crappy neighborhood,
Speaker 1: somebody said hey, buddy, come here and then beat the
Speaker 1: crap out of him and then dumped his body somewhere
Speaker 1: where he goes home to a girl and boyfriend. Let's
Speaker 1: just pause on that a second, because I do we
Speaker 1: are going to talk about. But let's get to another
Speaker 1: fun theory that I heard on the internet where he
Speaker 1: left under his own volition and this makes sense, and
Speaker 1: that and then his mother had just died, and that
Speaker 1: is that. The theory here is that Brian really wanted
Speaker 1: to be a woman, and so he goes into the
Speaker 1: bar and changes into like, you know, women's clothing and
Speaker 1: leaves and starts his new life as Bette Midler. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I guess there was Brianna or something, and so this
Speaker 1: is Brianna, Yeah, Brihanna. Yeah. But anyway, this is on
Speaker 1: like Redd and or something like that. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't take it too seriously, but you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: we owe it to our listeners to get them every
Speaker 1: loopy theories out there. I don't think we owe it
Speaker 1: to them at all. Iologies to mispronouncing your name. No,
Speaker 1: he was talking about Brianna, like female version of Brian.
Speaker 1: Oh I thought you were talking about the singer. No. No,
Speaker 1: but okay, So more seriously, though, I do just want
Speaker 1: to say about this whole left to start a new
Speaker 1: life type theory that his disappearance really seems I mean,
Speaker 1: it really caused those in his life a lot of pain.
Speaker 1: I mean, he just didn't seem like the kind of
Speaker 1: guy to do that, you know. I mean, and I
Speaker 1: know that's kind of a cop out thing to say,
Speaker 1: he just didn't seem like the kind of guy to
Speaker 1: do that, But I really his dad is just like heartbroken.
Speaker 1: He was even more so was Yeah, and and Alexis
Speaker 1: and and Brian's brother Derek, and everybody who really cared
Speaker 1: about him was just so heartbroken that I don't I
Speaker 1: just don't think he would have just walked away from
Speaker 1: all that. I feel, you know, I feel kind of
Speaker 1: really sad for his younger brother because his mom died
Speaker 1: and then Brian disappears, and then his dad was killed
Speaker 1: in a freak accident. Accident, Yeah, just like two years later,
Speaker 1: and so he's like an orphan, you know, his brother's
Speaker 1: got in like two years time. They all die. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh my god, it's really yeah. I mean, so, I
Speaker 1: just I just don't think he I don't think he
Speaker 1: would have done it. He would would have thought he
Speaker 1: would have come back for his dad's funeral anyway. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well we can talk about that later. Yeah. Uh so
Speaker 1: the next theory is over it is an umbrella. Theory
Speaker 1: is foul play ducks. No, the first one here is
Speaker 1: random act. So this kind of feeds into what you
Speaker 1: were talking about. Is that, either in the bar or
Speaker 1: potentially out of the bar, he could have left via
Speaker 1: you know whatever, I met a girl, even though it
Speaker 1: seems like he was pretty serious with this other girl,
Speaker 1: but whatever, um break. Don't say that um Or for
Speaker 1: whatever reason, left undetected of his own volition, but then
Speaker 1: met some sort of foul play, got beat up, accidentally
Speaker 1: slept in the dumpster, got picked up, things like that.
Speaker 1: I don't see this one as much because there was
Speaker 1: no activity on his credit cards or his cell phone.
Speaker 1: So if somebody I'd beat him up or whatever, you
Speaker 1: would think they'd take a stuff and at least try
Speaker 1: to use it. Yeah. Maybe, But at the same time,
Speaker 1: it's like if you mean the mug a guy and
Speaker 1: you accidentally kill him, Yeah, and you realize you probably
Speaker 1: killed him. You might take his wallet, but then think,
Speaker 1: you know, we're probably better not use this uses cards
Speaker 1: and stuff, and well probably, And so I could totally
Speaker 1: see where you you intended to just take his stuff
Speaker 1: and you unintentionally kill him, or I mean I guess
Speaker 1: I couldn't even see now that I'm thinking about it.
Speaker 1: You you know, you mug him, thinking we'll take all
Speaker 1: the cash this guy's got. You know, he's probably got
Speaker 1: some cash on him, he's got no cash, and you're like,
Speaker 1: dang it, yeah, dang it, all right. Well never, I mean,
Speaker 1: if somebody mugged me, they'd get my credit cards. And
Speaker 1: that's it because I have literally zero, like not even
Speaker 1: a quarter in my wallet type of cash situations, so
Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to have cash. It evaporates. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean that's why I stopped carrying cash, honestly, because
Speaker 1: it was spent money in my brain and I was
Speaker 1: just like, I can't do this anymore. So that's why
Speaker 1: I prefer cash over like credit cards. Even though I
Speaker 1: have cards and I use them, they're very handy, I
Speaker 1: find out more mindful of the way I spend money.
Speaker 1: If I'm using cash, I use defit cards. So it's
Speaker 1: that I use my debit card a lot more credit.
Speaker 1: Nobody needs to know financial situation. But anyway, I do
Speaker 1: think it's conceivable that somebody did actually mug him and
Speaker 1: just not you know, use the cards. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it is, but I also think they did a
Speaker 1: really good job hiding the body. Yeah, that's the thing
Speaker 1: I don't get either. They would bother you know, the criminals.
Speaker 1: Most criminals don't care about that kind of stuff. The
Speaker 1: longer you hang out with the body, as a matter
Speaker 1: of fact, the more likely or to get busted with
Speaker 1: the body. So if you just run away and leave
Speaker 1: it lay on the sidewalk, Yeah, and it was, and
Speaker 1: it would have been a probably we can reasonably assume
Speaker 1: that it would have been relatively close to citywide last call,
Speaker 1: so you know, Friday before spring break, college town last call,
Speaker 1: but there's gonna be a lot of people on the street.
Speaker 1: It was what did they say it was like a
Speaker 1: minute walk from the bar to his house? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: heard it was like six blocks to his house. Is
Speaker 1: that what? Okay? Something gave me the impression that was
Speaker 1: close to campus. Well, but I got the impression that
Speaker 1: it would have taken him some time. No, it said
Speaker 1: it would have run him through then not so nice neighborhoods.
Speaker 1: And so that's why he could have very easily disappeared.
Speaker 1: If somebody assaults him, as Joe said, then realizes they
Speaker 1: killed him, drag him into the backyard and then do
Speaker 1: whatever they do to yeah, yeah, yeah, um and yeah.
Speaker 1: Apparently the bad at least back in in two thousands six,
Speaker 1: a bad neighborhood started like about a block away from
Speaker 1: the ugly. Now that there were so many security cameras,
Speaker 1: it's probably actually the reason that there was a security Yeah,
Speaker 1: probably now that we thought yeah, um okay, so I
Speaker 1: guess next are years already to move on. The next
Speaker 1: duck theory is that the roadies for the band might
Speaker 1: have been involved. I'm not totally sure what the motivation
Speaker 1: would have been here. It could have been, you know,
Speaker 1: but I guess the only thing, the only other unexplored
Speaker 1: lead really is that Brian was seen chatting with the band.
Speaker 1: So you know, maybe the band was like, we didn't
Speaker 1: really want to talk to him, roadies, can you take
Speaker 1: care of him? Maybe he was like touching all over
Speaker 1: their stuff. There's a number of things he could have
Speaker 1: been doing, yeah, and I do yeah, So there's a
Speaker 1: number of things that he could have done, you know,
Speaker 1: low imagine that might have kind of just ticked off
Speaker 1: a roadie or one of the bands something I doubt.
Speaker 1: You know. Typically bar bands don't have roadies. They usually
Speaker 1: carry their own stuff. Yeah, well they'll have the big
Speaker 1: dumb friend. They usually keeps people out of the van
Speaker 1: while they're loading. Sometimes they do have that, and that
Speaker 1: drives and that is the important support that person has.
Speaker 1: Typically isn't drinking because Devin said, they're the one, because
Speaker 1: the band is normally getting drinks. And also, you know,
Speaker 1: they gotta like sleep for the next gig they're I
Speaker 1: don't know, but I don't Yeah, and I guess I
Speaker 1: don't really know. But you know, there's so many different
Speaker 1: things that I guess could have happened here. But he
Speaker 1: could have been injured or killed the band, the band
Speaker 1: or somebody associated with the band, Yeah, exactly. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe he even it was like a total accident. Maybe
Speaker 1: he fell over the drum set and the symbol just
Speaker 1: like crashed on his head and he was knocked unconscious
Speaker 1: and they were like, oh god, what are we doing? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, and so that is actually the theory is
Speaker 1: that it's possible that his body was stuck into a
Speaker 1: case for something and then rolled out and put into
Speaker 1: the band van and then but the thing is is
Speaker 1: that then they would have to bring that case back
Speaker 1: in and put what actually belonged in there in there
Speaker 1: to take it back out. And it seems like assuming
Speaker 1: this is assuming that that camera any of the cameras
Speaker 1: around where they were loading, and I assumed they were
Speaker 1: loading through the back, but I don't actually know that
Speaker 1: for sure, um was working. That's that is a big
Speaker 1: assumption that we have to make here. The police would
Speaker 1: have been while they were reviewing all those failings tape
Speaker 1: seen these people like would come with this like giant,
Speaker 1: you know, drum kit case and like go into their
Speaker 1: truck and like do some stuff and then come back
Speaker 1: out with the case, and they probably would have thought
Speaker 1: we should talk to these people of that suspicious. Yeah,
Speaker 1: although um another theory that I heard is that he
Speaker 1: wants to chat with the band. They were breaking down
Speaker 1: at that time, taking it and getting ready to get
Speaker 1: out of there, and he was chatting, of course, but
Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to shot talk about you know,
Speaker 1: their guitars and all kinds of other stuff. And and meantime,
Speaker 1: this guy is about to you know, haul something heavy
Speaker 1: out there, and Brian's like, hey, let me help you
Speaker 1: with that. So he helps the guy take it to
Speaker 1: the freight elevator and they go down to go out
Speaker 1: the back way, and that might be he was just
Speaker 1: with being with the band. He might have actually been
Speaker 1: helping this guy loved something. He was behind it when
Speaker 1: the camera goes off and everything, so he doesn't get
Speaker 1: seem going out the back so he's actually helping these
Speaker 1: guys carry carry something heavy item out the back door.
Speaker 1: And once they're out there, the guy says, hey, dude, thanks,
Speaker 1: he you want to go do a couple of lines
Speaker 1: in my vand before we go back inside. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not right. That's a heart attack from the front
Speaker 1: the I mean, this thing is totally possible as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: even if they're not doing lines that he leaves with
Speaker 1: the band for you know, not whatever, to leave with
Speaker 1: a band, to leave to go drink some more or whatever.
Speaker 1: I did think. I do tend to think with this
Speaker 1: case that the fact that he got out of there,
Speaker 1: that he got out of there without being seen by
Speaker 1: the cameras, and the fact that he disappeared, they're obviously related.
Speaker 1: I mean they're not there could be too, very just coincidentally,
Speaker 1: two really unusual things happening. I don't think one thing, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and one thing I will say is um, as we're
Speaker 1: talking about these backdoors. Like I said, it's my understanding
Speaker 1: they were like rigged to go off with an alarm,
Speaker 1: but they were also probably the loading dock. Probably, I
Speaker 1: don't know that for sure. I've gone out to some
Speaker 1: of those doors that say an alarm will go off
Speaker 1: and it doesn't go off, right, And then the other thing, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And then the other thing is is that um I
Speaker 1: was reading I think I was reading through I'll write
Speaker 1: it threat on this or something like that, and some
Speaker 1: guy was a bartender and he said, yeah, we have
Speaker 1: a backdoor that's rigged with a motion detecting camera quote
Speaker 1: unquote right, And we turned the sensitivity to thing on
Speaker 1: that thing way down slash off because every time a
Speaker 1: leaf blew past, it was going off and we were
Speaker 1: like being alerted and we just couldn't or it was
Speaker 1: malfunctioning or whatever. There's so much that could have gone
Speaker 1: wrong with that camera. But because we don't see anything,
Speaker 1: I've never seen in the reporting of this, you know,
Speaker 1: the police saying also we reviewed the tape from the
Speaker 1: back camera. They don't talk about the tape from the
Speaker 1: back came at all, which leads everybody to believe that
Speaker 1: the back camera didn't ever grow off right, never activated,
Speaker 1: so there was no motion back there, when actually it
Speaker 1: could be it was just turned off or wasn't working
Speaker 1: or whatever, or somebody had outsmarted at a k A
Speaker 1: put a piece of tape over it so that the
Speaker 1: band walking back and forth, the door opens for the
Speaker 1: Maybe the employees like to go smoke back there, and
Speaker 1: they weren't supposed to take smoke breaks. I mean, honestly,
Speaker 1: there's so many things that could have happened to that
Speaker 1: back camera. Um that that's and that's another thing. That's
Speaker 1: the way you could have gotten out that way, Like
Speaker 1: you're talking about, you might have been talking to somebody
Speaker 1: who worked at the bar, so you know, and they said, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't have much time, but I don't
Speaker 1: want to go smoke a cigarette. Could you want to
Speaker 1: go out back? And so, and once out there they
Speaker 1: get jumped or you know, I've gotten Maybe he got
Speaker 1: some secondhand smoke and it killed him. Yeah, I don't know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because smoke kills second Yeah, yeah, tell that, but I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't find it too perplexing actually that he got
Speaker 1: out of that without being spotted on camera, though, really
Speaker 1: I don't either. I mean That's the thing with this
Speaker 1: case is initially you were led to believe one way in,
Speaker 1: one way out always surveiled. And the more I read,
Speaker 1: the more I decided that's actually not completely true. And
Speaker 1: there's a whole nest of ways that he could have
Speaker 1: exited the building unobserved. So, um, Brian briefly was you know,
Speaker 1: like we said six too. He was also like a
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty five pounds kind of normal build. Um,
Speaker 1: so it is possible that he could have been helping
Speaker 1: with something. Um. The next three I'm just going to
Speaker 1: move a little bit further through these, is that like
Speaker 1: the bouncer could have done something, you know, it's kind
Speaker 1: of the same theory of he could have had an
Speaker 1: altercation with a bouncer and they bounced him a little
Speaker 1: too hard, though I don't I don't know if they
Speaker 1: had bouncers because they had the security guards right outside.
Speaker 1: And it's my understanding that the Ugly Tuna Saluna had
Speaker 1: a small restaurant component to it. It wasn't just like
Speaker 1: a bar, it was like a seafood bar and grill.
Speaker 1: So the host slashed hostess station may have served as
Speaker 1: their age checker or there's no age limit on the space.
Speaker 1: There's just age limit on getting booze. So the bartenders
Speaker 1: check your I d when you go up, and that's it.
Speaker 1: I've been to a number of places in college towns.
Speaker 1: Tends to not be that way. It tends to be
Speaker 1: a person sitting there checking ID. But it's usually like
Speaker 1: that's also not necessarily a bouncer type person. It's just
Speaker 1: like a dude or a lady sitting on a stool
Speaker 1: board out of their mind checking I das. And sometimes
Speaker 1: those guys too that they'll they'll deliberately hire a guy
Speaker 1: who's a big guy, but who's but actually he's not
Speaker 1: actually trained in martial arts. He's not actually mean or
Speaker 1: going to brutalize anybody, but maybe not that strong tattoo
Speaker 1: Yeah those tattoo sleeves. Yeah yeah, but I mean so that.
Speaker 1: But this is a theoryal C floated around, is that
Speaker 1: it doesn't look to me, like looking at the pictures
Speaker 1: and the videos and stuff like, it doesn't look like
Speaker 1: the kind of bar that really needs, you know, really
Speaker 1: and there's those two security guards right outside, so if
Speaker 1: something does happen, they can come out. And you know,
Speaker 1: the other thing is is that I've never seen anything
Speaker 1: about Brian being a particularly violent or angry drunk. Some
Speaker 1: people can be just obnoxious drunks, maybe, yeah, but he
Speaker 1: certainly doesn't look violent or angry or really that obnoxious
Speaker 1: on the tape at one five am, and that tape
Speaker 1: is literally like five or ten minutes before his friends
Speaker 1: and everyone left. And by the way, we need to
Speaker 1: point out, so at that point he's seen outside the
Speaker 1: bar talking to two ladies and they are eventually identified
Speaker 1: and interviewed. So it's not as if he went home
Speaker 1: with them or he was being harassing to them. He
Speaker 1: just chatted with them standing outside like there was nothing
Speaker 1: unto the Yeah, they reported it was a fine interaction.
Speaker 1: It wasn't, you know, amazing, But it wasn't like awful.
Speaker 1: It was just like a drunk day, yeah, And it
Speaker 1: didn't seem like his mood was in a weird spot
Speaker 1: or anything like that. So, you know, it just seems
Speaker 1: like five or ten minutes is is pretty quick for
Speaker 1: it to have been a very secret, weird altercation. You know.
Speaker 1: It's one thing if somebody said, oh, yeah, and there
Speaker 1: was this huge fight in the bar, we don't really
Speaker 1: know what's going on, but there was some big altercation.
Speaker 1: They dragged the guy out to one minute escalation followed
Speaker 1: by body whiskey away. Yeah, that's that's a little more phenomenal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it just seems really quick and unlikely. A lot of
Speaker 1: witnesses there. I think that if there was an altercation,
Speaker 1: it happened outside after he got out, like you know,
Speaker 1: in the back, in the back. Yeah, I would guess
Speaker 1: that as well. Um. And then the last theory that
Speaker 1: we have, if you guys are ready you is um
Speaker 1: that it could have been an accident. He could have
Speaker 1: drunkenly left via the construction site, as Joe kind of mentioned,
Speaker 1: that we're somehow unlocked and fallen into a hole or
Speaker 1: a wall and been accidentally covered up if they pour
Speaker 1: concrete over the top of them. Yeah, it seems like
Speaker 1: you would see a body in there. But maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's not as though it was like
Speaker 1: this giant pit, you know, where he could have been
Speaker 1: kind of covered with dirt and they were nobody was
Speaker 1: really looking and it was just like alright back the
Speaker 1: concrete truck up. I mean, the Christmas is a fairly Yeah,
Speaker 1: this was a pretty small space. I don't believe that's
Speaker 1: the way those things work. I don't either. I think
Speaker 1: they actually look in there to make sure that, you know,
Speaker 1: crap hasn't fallen in I would think yep, um, but yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah in them. Yeah. So I see this a lot
Speaker 1: on the internet, like a lot, and it just doesn't
Speaker 1: necessarily compute to me. It would. It would have to
Speaker 1: be like somebody intentionally put his body in a wall
Speaker 1: or hole and intentionally covered it up, and then the
Speaker 1: construction crew came in in the morning and they were like,
Speaker 1: Bob must have put the drywall up before he left
Speaker 1: last night. Weird. Okay, well, let's keep going. Well, it
Speaker 1: definitely couldn't have been in the wall, in the dry wall,
Speaker 1: because the smell would have been apparent rather quickly. But
Speaker 1: but but that's sort of right. But and the other
Speaker 1: thing is, though, is we don't know, so none of
Speaker 1: us are still here clear on exactly where this construction is.
Speaker 1: But if he were to have been in the bottom
Speaker 1: of a hole, there has to be a pile of
Speaker 1: dirt that is used to at least partially cover his
Speaker 1: body up. And the thing to remember a lot of
Speaker 1: times with holes like that, when they're going to pour
Speaker 1: concrete in them. Do you know what they do to him,
Speaker 1: call the dirt out, They pack up the company. They
Speaker 1: pack them so that it doesn't settle. So if suddenly
Speaker 1: you look in there and there's all this nice, loose,
Speaker 1: soft dirt, you're saying, oh, Billy, damn it, I told
Speaker 1: you to pack it. You're going to get in there
Speaker 1: to take care of that, and you're going to find
Speaker 1: the body, right, you know, scant interest below. So, and
Speaker 1: that's what I mean is that if if somebody had
Speaker 1: intentionally hid in his body in the construction site, that's
Speaker 1: one thing. But all of these kind of speculations on
Speaker 1: the Internet of people saying, well he just walked into
Speaker 1: the construction site and accidentally fell into something, that's just
Speaker 1: total bunk to me, even drunk. I don't think Brian
Speaker 1: was a bright guy. I don't think you're that stupid
Speaker 1: to what walk into a construction site. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: walk into all construction site and fall into a hole
Speaker 1: or something like that. Um, I've I've drunkenly wandered into
Speaker 1: construction sites and I'm very lucky that I didn't fall
Speaker 1: into Here's here's the thing is, we did say that
Speaker 1: Brian was very bright. You're right, No, I have wandered
Speaker 1: two places, you know, because you're just like when you're drunk,
Speaker 1: maybe this is a fast way out curious. I mean,
Speaker 1: I agree, but even so, I think they would have
Speaker 1: found his body. There's one other like accident theory that
Speaker 1: is that Brian could have drunkenly fallen into the river
Speaker 1: and been whisked. It's not the smiley face, but every
Speaker 1: once in a while people lump him into the Smiley
Speaker 1: face murderers. But then there's a there's but there's another
Speaker 1: theory that it's not related to smiley face, but he
Speaker 1: still fell fell into the river and was then the
Speaker 1: washed down river. My understanding is that the river that
Speaker 1: goes through Columbus is like the closest of approaches where
Speaker 1: he was is about a mile. He would have been
Speaker 1: really far away and really lost. Yeah, which is typical
Speaker 1: of all of these other smiling things. True. But there
Speaker 1: was also also somebody posted the thing on redd apparently
Speaker 1: it's from Columbush said, basically, the river where it flows
Speaker 1: through town, it's been damned to bring the level up,
Speaker 1: and it's really kind of more like a reservoir than
Speaker 1: a flowing river. Slow. Yeah, and they had they occasionally
Speaker 1: drained it for reasons and so you can see all
Speaker 1: the craft that's on the bottom, So his boy would
Speaker 1: have been fat. Well. They did find about so they
Speaker 1: did a really extensive search of the river slash reservoir situation,
Speaker 1: and they did find actually a skeleton at one point
Speaker 1: a couple of years a year later, and they thought
Speaker 1: it might be Brian, but it was not. What's that?
Speaker 1: What country is it that has all the locks and
Speaker 1: waterways through the city in Europe? Um Amsterdam? Oh, it
Speaker 1: might be Amsterdam. One of those. They recently drained a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of it because they had to do massive repairs,
Speaker 1: and you got to see fifty years worth of stuff
Speaker 1: with people. There was bicycles and motorcycles. But then they
Speaker 1: were finding cars that had been there for forty years
Speaker 1: but the water was cold enough that they hadn't really
Speaker 1: rusted away. It was actually amazing interesting the imagery of it.
Speaker 1: So I could just imagine what it's like when they're
Speaker 1: draining this one Ohio and beer bottles U Yeah, the
Speaker 1: just you know the there's there used to be a
Speaker 1: boat ramp. It's still there, but there's blocked off now.
Speaker 1: But down right by the Selwood Bridge. Yeah, there's a
Speaker 1: boat ramp there and they blocked it off of a
Speaker 1: concrete barrier. But before they did that, apparently that was
Speaker 1: the place to go when you put your to push
Speaker 1: your car into the river. Then, so there were a
Speaker 1: lot of cars down there. Yeah, they've they since pulled
Speaker 1: them out. They put a lot of car but people
Speaker 1: would go shove their car in there and then report
Speaker 1: it stolen and collect the insurance when they were tired
Speaker 1: of their car or whatever you can. You know, yeah, well, hey,
Speaker 1: that's a good way to get your money out of it.
Speaker 1: But again, back to Brian, though I am totally sure
Speaker 1: he did not fall unto the river. You know that
Speaker 1: he maybe fell face first, drunkenly into a mud puddle
Speaker 1: and round and then came along and threw him in
Speaker 1: a dumpster. Yeah. I find a dumpster theory, even though
Speaker 1: it's implausible itself, to be more plausible than any of
Speaker 1: the other falling into the construction site. I think, just overall,
Speaker 1: the reason that this is such a popular cases because
Speaker 1: none there's not a single theory out there that really
Speaker 1: satisfies me in terms of what I could believe. This
Speaker 1: is a failing on all of our parts is that
Speaker 1: we all want the theory that nicely buttons it up
Speaker 1: and tells us what happened. And I actually think that
Speaker 1: this story is kind of like the hourglass that you
Speaker 1: sit on the side, is that it all kind of
Speaker 1: narrows down. But if we just accepted that he got
Speaker 1: out of the building without us seeing him on foot
Speaker 1: on film, then it just it expands right back out
Speaker 1: and then everything could have happened. This guy, he could
Speaker 1: be anywhere in town. And that's where it becomes unsolvable
Speaker 1: because now the police don't know where to look because
Speaker 1: you have a city that's square mile upon square mile
Speaker 1: and thousands upon thousands of people, homes, basements, trash bins,
Speaker 1: I mean where at that point, and there's no there's
Speaker 1: no real clues to give any to to really make
Speaker 1: you want to favor one over the other. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: like the idea. He meets a serial killer, the serial
Speaker 1: killer being a clever, hannibal electric kind of guy, has
Speaker 1: already spotted the cameras and figure out a way to
Speaker 1: lure Bryan outside without being seen with him, and then
Speaker 1: murders him, gets rid of the body. That's yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's really like it though, right, you know, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I just think I just think none of
Speaker 1: them are good. Yeah, no, there's no I think no
Speaker 1: slam dump theory. Yeah, I think that when his friend
Speaker 1: Clint finally decides to share what he knows, if he
Speaker 1: even knows anything, I just don't think that he does.
Speaker 1: I think he's just trying to protect himself because, like
Speaker 1: I would too, of opinion, was gonna you could tell him.
Speaker 1: I think he could see very early on he's gonna ripped,
Speaker 1: get ripped a shrid. I just said, uh no, I'm
Speaker 1: giving you all the finger. I didn't do anything wrong
Speaker 1: because everybody gets mad at him because he wouldn't take
Speaker 1: a lie detector. Yeah, by detector tesh are so fallible, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're they're worthless, So it doesn't prove squat. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I I would like to hear if he's got anything,
Speaker 1: use will say. I had heard that he threw. His
Speaker 1: lawyers said he would testify or you know, you know,
Speaker 1: he would give information police or private investigators or who
Speaker 1: believe if you got a grant of immunity. Well, I
Speaker 1: thought he told them everything he knew about that night.
Speaker 1: So I don't know what else more he's going to
Speaker 1: be sharing. Yeah. Yeah, it was cooperative. Yeah, it's tricky. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so Yeah. And and the problem is again you know,
Speaker 1: as we as we said many times in the past,
Speaker 1: it's a minefield when you talk to the police wand
Speaker 1: have incriminating yourself with that meaning to even if you're innocent. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but enough of that, Okay, forget it. I can't think
Speaker 1: of a thing. Yeah, I was just gonna say, I
Speaker 1: think that pretty much sums up the story episode. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a bad guy disappeared and uh yeah, yeah. Probably
Speaker 1: if you are Clint and you want to talk to
Speaker 1: us about you know, we won't accuse you. Probably we
Speaker 1: will grant you immunity from the Thinking Sideways Tribunal. Um So,
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Speaker 1: of that having been said, we're going to go ahead
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Speaker 1: To everybody spring break, it's actually maybe it is. I've
Speaker 1: lost track of time. Okay, bye guys. Wh