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Speaker 1: slash wife between Us. Thank you, sorry, sorry, hey guys.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast I

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Speaker 1: Am Devin, joined as always by Joe and Steve. Today

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about a mystery, why the disappearance? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was suggested by everyone. Yeah, this is a popular one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: including uh, Sarah, Geen, Julian and Stephanie. They were the

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Speaker 1: first four and lots of others. Um and if you

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Speaker 1: don't check the names of the episodes before you start

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Speaker 1: listening to them, now I get to tell you we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about the disappearance of Brian Schaeffer today.

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Speaker 1: Brian Shaffer, who's that. He's a guy who disappeared weirdly,

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Speaker 1: really like out of a bar or something. This I

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Speaker 1: know is a pet case for a lot of people

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Speaker 1: in general. So here's my typical. We're probably going to

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Speaker 1: leave some of your favorite details out because there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of risks disclaimer exactly, But we don't really need

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Speaker 1: a little ears disclaimer, which is great. This is a yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just it's really weird. I would say endless speculation,

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Speaker 1: I have to say to on the interne Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: tons of it. It's kind of I would say it's

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Speaker 1: akin almost to the mar Murray case. And that realistically

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Speaker 1: is first. As far as confirmed details that we absolutely

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Speaker 1: positively know, there's not that much. There four pages of

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Speaker 1: details and about seventy million pages of conjecture, yeah exactly.

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Speaker 1: I don't think even four pages of details. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think including the videotapes yea. Yeah. But basically, the overview

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Speaker 1: of this case is a guy walks into a bar

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Speaker 1: and disappears forever. That is the worst joke ever. Yea

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Speaker 1: guy walks into a bar. Bartender says, what is this

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Speaker 1: a joke? Okay, So let's start at the top. Brian

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Speaker 1: Schaefer was twenty seven when he disappeared, and he was

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Speaker 1: a medical student at the University of Ohio. It was

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Speaker 1: his second year and he had two more years until

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Speaker 1: he would become a doctor, So he was halfway through,

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Speaker 1: two more years until he starts the suffering process of

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Speaker 1: being a resident and everything else well tech nically, yeah, true,

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Speaker 1: but two more years, two more years of medical school. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he had been in school the entire time. He did

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Speaker 1: the high school, the undergrad and microbiology and then onto

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Speaker 1: the grad program he was in. It wasn't one of

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Speaker 1: those guys who took a break at some point. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it took him a little longer to do his

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Speaker 1: undergrad than four years, six years, which is okay, especially

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Speaker 1: something like microbiologists. As long as it didn't stop from

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Speaker 1: getting into med school, then no biggie. Yeah. By all accounts,

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Speaker 1: he was a very smart, very nice guy. He was

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Speaker 1: apparently a talented musician as well, often maybe joking but

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Speaker 1: kind of seriously not joking. You know the joke where

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Speaker 1: people you know reveal their deepest, darkest wishes by quote

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Speaker 1: unquote joking around about it. Favorite podcast, Yeah, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: does not anyway. His his go to joke was that

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Speaker 1: the doctor thing was just until his musical career took off.

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Speaker 1: S actually plan a second career just in case that

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Speaker 1: didn't happen. It's very true because he wanted to be

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Buffett. Yeah, and there's already one Jimmy Buffett. He

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Speaker 1: would have to murder the other Jimmy Buffett. Well, and

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Speaker 1: he was really into pearl Jam. Well, you want to actually,

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Speaker 1: you want to actually hear a funny, weird bit of

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Speaker 1: factoried about Jimmy Buffett. Okay, okay, so you know there's

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Speaker 1: the whole Margaritaville lifestyle that Jimmy Buffett has been selling

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Speaker 1: for years. He doesn't live that lifestyle. It was from

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Speaker 1: the very beginning he said, I'm going to sell people

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Speaker 1: this lifestyle and they have been paying him for it

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Speaker 1: for decades. Yeah, but how does he actually live? Is

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Speaker 1: he like a non drinking guy. He lives in New Jersey.

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Speaker 1: He's just your he's your normal runabout guy who doesn't

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Speaker 1: drink much. He's not into the beach lifestyle. And he's like, no,

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Speaker 1: I sing music and people buy my stuff and I

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Speaker 1: live well off of it. Yeah, now it makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Smart guy is a smart business man. Yeah, so Brian

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Speaker 1: Schaefer back to our topic. Yes, like I said, he

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Speaker 1: was also into pearl Jam. He had a pearl Jam

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Speaker 1: tattoo on him like the stickman or whatever. Yeah, given

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Speaker 1: the peace sign or something like that, or big Hug

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Speaker 1: or something. He had a good relationship with his family,

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Speaker 1: which was his mother Renee, his father Randy, and his

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Speaker 1: younger brother Derek. Unfortunately, Renee lost a long battle with

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Speaker 1: a particularly bad type of cancer called it's it's bone cancer.

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Speaker 1: It's it's bone marrow cancer, my yellow plastic syndrome. So

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Speaker 1: it's that kind of something that's kind of similar to

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Speaker 1: what you call it. That's it. Yeah, the word balacting

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Speaker 1: on the tip of my fulcon with my brain. Yeah. Now,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's like a bone marrow thing it is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So basically the formation of blood, yeah, exactly. And so

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Speaker 1: it was a long, kind of painful battle for her.

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Speaker 1: She she did unfortunately lose that battle in March of

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Speaker 1: two thousand six. Her passing was hard on the whole family. Um.

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Speaker 1: But those close to Brian said that he was taking it.

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Speaker 1: He at least outwardly, was taking it really well, but

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Speaker 1: they suspected that he was not taking it as well

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Speaker 1: as it seemed like, Yeah, you know, I gotta tell

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Speaker 1: you that I haven't met to a couple of those

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Speaker 1: long lingering all those things myself with my parents that

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Speaker 1: by the time it's all over, you know, you've actually

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Speaker 1: done a lot of your all the grief is really

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Speaker 1: kind of behind you already, so you're kind of just

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Speaker 1: ready to start living your life again exactly. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: also you know, missing your parents. No, it still sucks,

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Speaker 1: but I mean it's still it's not a it's not

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Speaker 1: a real shock to the system like that they suddenly

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Speaker 1: get killed in a rec Yeah, and you've had your

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Speaker 1: time to say goodbye and all that stuff. At Ohio

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Speaker 1: State University in two thousand six, spring break started on

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Speaker 1: marcht one, Friday that year. Every year usually springbreak starts

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Speaker 1: on Friday, except that one year where it was really

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Speaker 1: a lame and it started on Wednesday. Yeah. Ever, I

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Speaker 1: feel like they'd be kind of nice, but I'd have

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Speaker 1: to go all the way to the next Friday. It

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Speaker 1: would be lame if it was literally, Oh got it okay, anyway, sorry,

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Speaker 1: back to our case. Um, it started on Friday, the

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Speaker 1: March one, which of two thousand and six, which is

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Speaker 1: which is April Fool's Eve, but also the same month

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Speaker 1: that Renee Brian's mom had passed away. We don't I

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Speaker 1: don't have a date necessarily for that. I was three

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Speaker 1: weeks before, yeah, right, But I don't have like a

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Speaker 1: specific date, which is fine, I think. But recently Brian

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Speaker 1: had planned to go to Florida, Miami, specifically with his

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Speaker 1: girlfriend Alexis for the bulk of spring break, where he

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Speaker 1: was reportedly planning to propose to her. Are we going

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Speaker 1: to talk about that part later on? I assume what

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Speaker 1: Florida know the whole proposed, planned to propose? Bit um?

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Speaker 1: What about it? Well, so I see this everywhere and

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Speaker 1: it really sticks in my crop because she's the one

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Speaker 1: who seems to say it. I mean, was a ring

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Speaker 1: ever found in his stuff? Like his brother is the

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Speaker 1: one who brought it up first. Okay, but was a

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Speaker 1: ring ever found among his possessions? I don't want to know.

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Speaker 1: I have heard not that he had not bought a ring,

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Speaker 1: which makes that doesn't think? I mean, I'll just say, yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: traditionally he would have a ring and blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: But I'm bothered by that bubble gum machine and get

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Speaker 1: the plastic toy ring. But a planning ahead, it should

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Speaker 1: have been somewhere maybe yeah, or maybe he was going

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Speaker 1: to do it without a ring, which is also fine

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Speaker 1: because from what I have heard or talked to a

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Speaker 1: number of people, I know they say, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to buy a ring because I know she's going to

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Speaker 1: want to help pick it out. So he says, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we'll go pick out a ring. I'm gonna buy it

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Speaker 1: for you. You'll have the perfect ring. And I don't

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Speaker 1: trust myself, blah blah blah. What don't you get yeah?

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Speaker 1: Or you know, just no heir fiance well enough, or

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Speaker 1: maybe had it all planned out to wander into a

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Speaker 1: jewelry store in Florida and then just like say you

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Speaker 1: like that, right, okay, I'll buy it. Then you get

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Speaker 1: on your knees and say and then she says no, yeah,

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Speaker 1: or you don't even buy it yet, you buy ideal. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but then that next to the rest of the vacation.

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Speaker 1: A little bit uncomfortable, of course, but at least you

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Speaker 1: saved a lot of bucks, but not buying the jewelry. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: so regardless of the ring. Oh yeah, that's okay. I

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Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying. Um, But the first time

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Speaker 1: I thought said was from his brother, and it's my

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Speaker 1: understanding that he had talked a little bit about it

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Speaker 1: when he was out to dinner with his father on

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Speaker 1: the thirty first as well. But yes, I agree, And

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Speaker 1: also it was a little weird to me because they've

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Speaker 1: only been together for a year. But the ring that

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Speaker 1: bothers you, Okay, sure, no evidence of the actual intention

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Speaker 1: to make it not well one bothers me at all.

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Speaker 1: I guess yeah, I was gonna say either way, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't really matter because they had planned to go to

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Speaker 1: Miami for a week together. They were in a serious,

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Speaker 1: committed relationship to each other. That's really all I guess

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Speaker 1: we really need to know about it. Anyhow, Brian's father, Randy,

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Speaker 1: came into town to visit and celebrate springbreak with Brian.

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Speaker 1: Is always how you will see it reported that they

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Speaker 1: were there to celebrate spring break. I really think Randy

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Speaker 1: was just thinking, you know what, my wife just died. Um,

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Speaker 1: I really care about my son, and I you know,

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Speaker 1: care about both of my children, and I just, you know,

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Speaker 1: I want to see him and this is a great excuse,

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Speaker 1: and maybe he wanted to see how he was doing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: see how he's doing, spend some quality time with him.

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Speaker 1: Knowing he was going to leave for a whole week,

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Speaker 1: you know, just a couple of weeks after his wife

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Speaker 1: and and Brian's mom had passed away, you know, just

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Speaker 1: kind of yeah, I think it's a check. It's a

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Speaker 1: check and also just a you know, nice time to

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Speaker 1: see him. So they went out to dinner that night

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Speaker 1: or that evening, I guess, to a steakhouse. It's not

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Speaker 1: really clear what time it was, but I do think

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Speaker 1: it was like evening time, like you know, five six o'clock.

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Speaker 1: And Randy said that it seems like Brian was tired.

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Speaker 1: That to you, yeah, it sounded like he had been

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Speaker 1: pulling a lot of all nighters for exams that were

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Speaker 1: coming up. I could never do that. That's not a

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Speaker 1: great idea. I was really good at the all nighters.

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Speaker 1: It was the staying then staying up for the exam

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Speaker 1: the next day and actually being able to actually think

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Speaker 1: cohera during the exam that was kind of tough. And

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Speaker 1: here's the pro tip for all of you listeners who

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Speaker 1: are still in school. It actually is like scientifically proven

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Speaker 1: better for you to sleep because your brain will actually

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Speaker 1: retain the information. So go to sleep, stop listening to us,

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Speaker 1: go to sleep, wake up for your finals tomorrow. You're

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Speaker 1: going to be fine. I had a cool hall listenation

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Speaker 1: and final exam one time from pulling an all night.

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Speaker 1: I was going to say, we can talk about that later.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about that, yeah. Um. Randy said interviews after

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Speaker 1: Brian disappeared that he remembered feeling like he didn't think

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Speaker 1: Brian should go out with his friends as he had

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Speaker 1: planned later that night, because he seems so tired. But

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Speaker 1: he didn't say anything because you know, Brian's an adult,

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Speaker 1: which I think is fair. But you know, when you

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Speaker 1: get out there to the bar, you know, loud music

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Speaker 1: and the booze is a big energizer for me. I

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Speaker 1: don't know about you guys. Yeah, yeah, yes, it's an

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Speaker 1: energy at the beginning. And you know usually at that age,

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Speaker 1: at that age three years ago, you have some coffee

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Speaker 1: or you know, an energy drink or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes to help you out alone, it's probably drinking red

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Speaker 1: Bulls or something. So Brian goes out. The main friend

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Speaker 1: that he's with is named William Florence, but this guy's

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Speaker 1: nickname is Clint, so we're going to call him Clint.

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Speaker 1: Brian met Clint at the Ugly Tuna Saluna. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: call it that everything the full name every single time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think. I think it's tuna phobic. I don't um.

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Speaker 1: They met at nine pm that night and then started

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Speaker 1: bar hopping down kind of a main drag streets a town, right.

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Speaker 1: Clint says that at each bar they took a shot,

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Speaker 1: then moved on. At about ten pm, Alexis says Brian

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Speaker 1: called her because she was visiting her family about a

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Speaker 1: couple hours away before, which is like a two and

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Speaker 1: a half hour drive from Columbus where they were, or

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Speaker 1: like outside of where wherever UM or Ohio State University is.

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Speaker 1: I think actually in the beginning of this, I said

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Speaker 1: it was University of Idaha or of Ohio that in

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Speaker 1: the southland here, man, it's good. Um anyways, it was

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Speaker 1: actually os U, so sorry for that earlier. Anyway. Alexis

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Speaker 1: says that about ten PM, Brian called her because she,

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Speaker 1: like we said, she was visiting her family. Um, just

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Speaker 1: to say that he loved her and you know, he

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Speaker 1: was out and you know he would see her. It

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Speaker 1: was like an hour into the night, I think, is

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Speaker 1: where I've seen it. So he must have started drinking

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Speaker 1: around nine o'clock. They were, Yeah, they do they have

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Speaker 1: that time stamp? Clint said they met at nine pm

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Speaker 1: and then they started bar hopping, and you know, I

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Speaker 1: suspect she was probably thinking like, I'm gonna go to

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Speaker 1: bed soon, and he called her to say good night,

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Speaker 1: and he loved her and he was going to be

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Speaker 1: out after a drink or two. Your loving Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: figuring he probably had about twelve shots under his belt

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Speaker 1: by this time. That was a whole hour. I don't

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Speaker 1: think probably, But anyway, an unspecified time after midnight. I

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Speaker 1: think it's close after midnight, but it is never actually specified.

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Speaker 1: Clinton Brian run into one of Clint's friends named Meredith Reid,

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Speaker 1: who then gave them a ride back to the Ugly

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Speaker 1: Tuna Saluna. Meredith is a guy, correct, I believe, because

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Speaker 1: I mean Meredith is one of those names that can

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Speaker 1: be a male or female. And I'm pretty sure it

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Speaker 1: was a guy and not a girl, but a girl.

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Speaker 1: I initially I was like, oh, it must be a lady,

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Speaker 1: but then a bunch of stuff that I read gave

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Speaker 1: me the impression that it was all the guys going

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Speaker 1: to the last bar. This is very odd. Here's what

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you is I watched the crap out of

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Speaker 1: the surveillance well, and I can't Well, the surveillance tapes

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Speaker 1: are really good, but Brian is standing in front of

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Speaker 1: Meredith and walking, and so you can't actually tell. So

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Speaker 1: I think, well, I don't know, Stid that they are

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Speaker 1: standing on the step below Brian. And Brian was six too,

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Speaker 1: so I don't know, not taller than six two plus

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Speaker 1: five inches. Um so I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: I believe it's a guy. But again that's positive because

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Speaker 1: there's so much weird reporting on this one. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: that's the other thing is I've never seen it. I

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Speaker 1: don't think i've ever seen it. Specified I'm like racking

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Speaker 1: my brain. Um so, I'm really sorry everyone. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to admit there's a lack in my research. Sorry. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I actually think it it's probably is a female

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Speaker 1: type person, just simply because I have I have an

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Speaker 1: eye for this sort of thing. Like if if, like say,

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Speaker 1: on the Wikipedia page, Meredith would have been referred to

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Speaker 1: at some point as him or he or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Never page problem. It's either either read as in the

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Speaker 1: last name or they as in the he or that person.

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Speaker 1: And Clint's it's always very gender non specific is what's

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Speaker 1: bungling all of us. We're gonna we're gonna make Meredith

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Speaker 1: into a girl here. I think I think we're just

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Speaker 1: gonna just call Meredith and Clint. We're gonna let Meredith

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Speaker 1: stay gender non specifically. Meredith likes it anyway. Meredith gave

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Speaker 1: them a ride back to the Ugly Tuna Saluna, where

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Speaker 1: they all planned to end their night then go home.

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Speaker 1: Brian reportedly got separated from Meredith and Clint at this spot.

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Speaker 1: The bar closes at two ammal, which is normal, so

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Speaker 1: Clinton Mereth figured they'd wait outside the only exit from

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Speaker 1: the bar and they'd fight Brian in the crowd exiting.

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Speaker 1: When they didn't see him, they assumed that when they've

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Speaker 1: been separated from the bar, Brian had just left without

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Speaker 1: telling them, you know, he couldn't find them or whatever. Um.

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Speaker 1: The next morning, Alexis tried calling Brian but couldn't get

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Speaker 1: ahold of him. His phone went girlfriend Alexis his girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: She said his phone went straight to voicemail. She just

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Speaker 1: assumed he was, you know, sleeping it off, and so

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Speaker 1: she tried it again later Finally on Sunday, when she

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Speaker 1: still couldn't get ahold of him, his phone was still

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Speaker 1: going straight to voicemail. She called Randy, Brian's father to

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Speaker 1: see if he had heard from her him, and he hadn't,

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Speaker 1: so they then called the police. Reporting varies on this,

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Speaker 1: According to Alexis. On some news news reports that I watched,

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Speaker 1: they reported Brian missing Sunday. Wikipedia says that Brian was

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Speaker 1: reported missing on Monday. He missed the flight to Miami.

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Speaker 1: I don't know which is true. I would tend to

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Speaker 1: believe Sunday. It was at least there too, but it

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Speaker 1: was a couple of days, at least a couple of days.

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Speaker 1: Friday night was the night that And this is something

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Speaker 1: as it's not outrageous, but I think it's a little

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Speaker 1: odd that Clinton didn't call him the next morning and

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Speaker 1: just say, hey, what the hell did where were you?

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Speaker 1: Just just to see that he's all right. Well we

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Speaker 1: don't I don't know that he didn't. Clinton is like

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Speaker 1: after that night Clintons appeared. Yeah, he won't say anything,

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Speaker 1: I think, trying to protect himself from the court mass

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Speaker 1: negative appeal that. Yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean he's guilty

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Speaker 1: of anything. Yeah, either way, Columbus police did get the

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Speaker 1: missing person's report, and they acted and totally reasonably. First

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Speaker 1: they checked with local hospitals and homeless shelters to make

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Speaker 1: sure he hadn't shown up any of those places, like

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Speaker 1: you would expect them too. That would be, you know,

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Speaker 1: the first place you would expect them to check, because

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Speaker 1: did you Well, I mean, people don't understand why the

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Speaker 1: cops do that, because if somebody gets let's say, whacked

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Speaker 1: on the head and gets a concussion, they can be

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Speaker 1: in a weird state. Remember that, there's that for us

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Speaker 1: in real time. The report of the guy who was

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Speaker 1: on the East Coast when skiing apparently took a tumble

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Speaker 1: and they found him a week later in California in

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Speaker 1: the same clothes, with no memory of how he got there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's why. But people are like, why they

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Speaker 1: check those places? That's why. Well, the hospital just because

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Speaker 1: I mean, you could be unconscious in a hospital, but

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Speaker 1: a homeless shelter, you know, anywhere that somebody could be

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Speaker 1: warm and get services, pretty much they're going to check

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Speaker 1: because for whatever reason, that's where they're going to go

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Speaker 1: from there. Well, so obviously Brian was not found either

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Speaker 1: of those or any of those places. So then from

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Speaker 1: there the investigators starting put together a timeline, basically the

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Speaker 1: timeline we just talked about in a minute ago of

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Speaker 1: what what Brian had been doing. The only additional detail

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Speaker 1: that Clinton Meredith were able to provide is that they

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Speaker 1: thought they had seen Brian chatting with the band. And

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Speaker 1: I thought that I read in one place again you

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Speaker 1: read and all all kinds of different accounts, But he

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Speaker 1: had said to them, Hey, I'm going to go talk

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Speaker 1: to the band, you know, And that's the last word

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Speaker 1: they heard from him, as he said he was actually

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Speaker 1: going to go chat with ye. I don't know how much.

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Speaker 1: Being a musician, I'm not surprised. I heard that they were.

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Speaker 1: This was late and they had actually stopped playing and

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Speaker 1: they were starting to break down, and so maybe he

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Speaker 1: just wanted to go talking about guitars for a little

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Speaker 1: bit or whatever. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if they if you know, Brian said that to them,

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Speaker 1: or they just saw him over there or what. But um,

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Speaker 1: it does seem that Brian was chatting with the band

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Speaker 1: at least at one point. When interviewed, the staff at

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Speaker 1: the Ugly Tuna Salona were totally unable or unwilling to

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Speaker 1: provide any helpful information, though it seems they were reasonably cooperative.

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Speaker 1: It was a bar full of people. How are you

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Speaker 1: going to on the first night of spring break? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I had the same thought when I saw this, the

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Speaker 1: footage with the security guys, like the security guards, billion

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00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: people come screaming through. Yeah, and realistically, like it's Brian

392
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Speaker 1: isn't insanely He's not. He's not really unique looking? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah six to you know, reasonably built, white dude with

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Speaker 1: brown hair. I mean, unless you're paying attention, like really

395
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Speaker 1: paying attention and looking for him, Yeah, he's kind of Actually,

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Speaker 1: I don't look at Brian and you think that's not

397
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Speaker 1: really he's really all American, like he has the all

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Speaker 1: American boy. But here's what I'll say is that in

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Speaker 1: Ohio there's a lot of all American. Yeah. Yeah. The

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Speaker 1: police started searching the area around the Ugly Tuna Salona.

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Speaker 1: They checked all the dumpsters in this kind of back alleyway.

402
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 1: They were hoping to find any kind of clues. There

403
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 1: were no no clues whatsoever. They searched the rivers and

404
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 1: the entire campus of Ohio State University with searchdogs and

405
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: didn't find anything. I have two questions. Yeah, I've not

406
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,160
Speaker 1: seen this one. Do we know what day garbage day

407
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 1: was for those dumpsters? We don't. Okay, I've never seen

408
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 1: it reported. But that's why nobody seems to know that one.

409
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people who hear as he wind

410
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Speaker 1: up in a dumpster and wind up going to the dogs.

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Speaker 1: That happens, I'm sadly to a lot of people. But

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Speaker 1: my other question is, because we get just based it

413
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Speaker 1: about this, what kind of search dogs did they use? Dogs?

414
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 1: Tracker dogs? We know that for sure, certainly, I would

415
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 1: say within a reasonable I when I was looking, I

416
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: could never figure it out. And because the reason that

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Speaker 1: I presume that is because they also I was going

418
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 1: to save this for a little later, but they also searched.

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Speaker 1: They had the dogs come in and sniff her on

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Speaker 1: the bar to see if they could track Brian from

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Speaker 1: the bar, and they were unable to do that because

422
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,360
Speaker 1: they got sidetracked by the jerky Martini. Probably yeah, But

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Speaker 1: so I presume they used the right kind of dogs. Okay,

424
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: I would assume I had heard some rumor later though,

425
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 1: that they came back later there was a construction site

426
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: right next door. And then one of the theories is

427
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 1: he fell. We'll talk about that in a little bit,

428
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: and that it came back with could ever dogs and

429
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: I supposedly got a hit there. Oh yeah, that's yeah. Yeah,

430
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 1: So they didn't find anything. Then the police just decided, well,

431
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 1: there is some surveillance footage, I guess, well, and also

432
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: specifically in the Ugly Tuna Saluna entryway. Therefore, I guess

433
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,479
Speaker 1: we can you know, sit an investigator in here and

434
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 1: to review the what you know, twelve hours of video

435
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: surveillance footage is to see if they can see anything worthwhile.

436
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 1: So we'll pause here because I don't think that we've

437
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: described how the Ugly Tuna Saluna is set up. This

438
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 1: is really important. It is actually very I was dumb

439
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 1: to me until I figured out, Yeah, it is really

440
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: really important. And the reason that I say this is

441
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: because eventually the investigators were able to you even see

442
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: where Brian Clinton Meredith had parked, how they walked from

443
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: the parked car, like, even to the point of which

444
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: of the support beams they walked past up through a

445
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 1: little corridor area. They could track them all the way

446
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: into the Ugly Tuna Saluna. But there were no surveillance

447
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: cameras in the Ugly Tuna Saluna. So they actually did

448
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: touch the street, and it's not like they parked in

449
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 1: a parking garage and came through the back door into

450
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: the mall and into the bar. Right, they didn't touch

451
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: a street. So there's a area then, well, I guess

452
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 1: you'd call it a mall area, but it's like an

453
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 1: open do we just want to start explaining how this

454
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 1: whole place is set up because that might be the

455
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 1: easy to lay the Yeah, that's probably the areat way. Yeah. Um,

456
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: so it is kind of a mall area in that

457
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: like it's like a like a square area. Kyah. It's

458
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 1: not like it's not like private closed off to the public,

459
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 1: but it's not. It's pedestrian all but it's open air. Yeah,

460
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: but it's open air between High Street, you know, which

461
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: is like on one side, and then there's another sort

462
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 1: of alley behind there and there's like a block long

463
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: thing which is kind of mall like with a lot

464
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: of bar. Yeah, like a plaza. It's wider than a

465
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 1: street would be. It's kind of nice view. It's got

466
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 1: all kinds of cool stuff shops and stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

467
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: So so the Ugly Tuna Salona is on the second

468
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: floor of one of these buildings. And this is very

469
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: important because it means there's just one way in and

470
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 1: one way out, and that was that way was under surveillance.

471
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: There's a set of stairs and an escalator that goes

472
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 1: up and an escalator that goes down, and covered and

473
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: fully covered by one not moving eye of the camera.

474
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: You can see everybody who walks up and down the stairs.

475
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: You can see everybody who comes up and down the escalators,

476
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: And unlike most surveillance cameras, this one's pretty HD. You

477
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: can definitely, I mean I was watching the way that

478
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: I got to see the surveillance footage. Surveillance footage was

479
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 1: from somebody pointing a camera at their TV at uh,

480
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 1: you know whatever the NBC dateline, whatever it was, I

481
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: can't remember off the top of my head. And I

482
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: could still very clearly identify the person as Brian Shaefer.

483
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: Uh that you know, you could see kind of being

484
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 1: tracked on this um no red circles or anything like that.

485
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: So if it was good enough through the like five

486
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: steps of somebody filming their TV with something and then

487
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: uploading it onto YouTube, definitely, yeah. Used to the security

488
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 1: cameras that take on a t M or something two

489
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: or three second stills. You know, after two or three

490
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: now this thing was shooting continuous video. There is a

491
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: back emergency exit on the first floor. I'm not totally

492
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: clear how one accesses that emergency exit, but I will

493
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 1: say that that emergency exit I believe is rigged to

494
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: alarm when opened, which sometimes malfunctions, or they might have

495
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,239
Speaker 1: turned it off because it might have also served as

496
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: like a loading dock, like the way for the band

497
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: get in and out. It's possible. That's it's unclear, but possible.

498
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: And there's a motion sensor camera back there as well

499
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: that turns on anytime there's any emotion back there and

500
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: then zoom. It's reportedly zooms in like kind of wear

501
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: a reasonable range of a head would be, so you

502
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: can see a face of whoever is coming out, because

503
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: you know, you're not supposed to use those exits but

504
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 1: for emergencies, but they want to know. But I had

505
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: heard also there was a like an employee exit, like

506
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: on the south side of the bar. That is, it's

507
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: my understanding that is the employee exit that goes to

508
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: that emergency exit down there. So it's like stairs that

509
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: go to the emergency exitentro on the ground floor, right,

510
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: But I don't really know how Like I don't know.

511
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,479
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's like you have to go

512
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: through you know, the kitchen and the bar and like

513
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: three other rooms to get to that staircase, or if

514
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: it's just through some curtains that say emergency exit. Like,

515
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: I don't know the difficulties. They haven't published a floor plan.

516
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: It would be nice to have one, would get that, yeah,

517
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: really bapping the bottom of the ocean, but they won't

518
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: map the inside of a bar. Well, it's it's kind

519
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: of like the bottom of the ocean. It's the Ugly

520
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: Tuna saluna a good point. Also, as Joe kind of

521
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: briefly mentioned before, at the time of Brian's disappearance, there

522
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: was also a number of construction exits in that building

523
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: as well, so that you come up, you know, to

524
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: the Ugly Tuna saluna and on the second floor, and

525
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: you know, there's kind of like an entry way area.

526
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: It's not just like straight to the doors. There's a

527
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: little bit of as an open atrium kind of area

528
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: a little bit. It's not it's not huge. It's like

529
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: a theater off to your left right and then there's

530
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: like a hallway ahead of you. I think, I don't

531
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: think the theaters on that one. I don't think that

532
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: the first floor. I think, you know, I always seeing

533
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: as somebody posted a video and it's another one the feeds.

534
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: If the Congress wants to do one useful thing, they

535
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: can and portrait videos. Somebody doing the whole freaking holding

536
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: my iPhone up doing a portrait video going up the

537
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: riding up the escalator to the top at the ugly

538
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: two well, so you can see what it looks like.

539
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: The bars off to the right, straight ahead, there's a

540
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: short white hallway, you know that maybe it goes to

541
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: bathrooms or star rooms or god knows what. And there's

542
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: something off to the left. They can't really tell. It

543
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 1: looks kind of molly. So from the camera angles, from

544
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: the surveillance camera angle, the escalator comes right up. There's

545
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: like a wall that it comes up and it goes

546
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: straight into the ugly Tuna salona. Basically there's like a

547
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: little I don't know what to really call I guess

548
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: atrium is a fine thing. And then so the camera's

549
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: looking down towards the outside the security camera. Um, so

550
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: the escalators are coming up on the what would be

551
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: the right side, but is on this the left side,

552
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: and then the stairs are on like right next to it,

553
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: to the right, and then the construction area is further

554
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: to the right. Yeah, so it would be to the

555
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: left it, but it may be that it was post construction. Um,

556
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: what we're talking about the same thing. Yeah, And and

557
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: again I'm not really clear and what kind of construction

558
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: they're talking about, because like when this is kind of

559
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: a mall, and in a mall, there's you know, the

560
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: original construction where you pour a concrete and everything and

561
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: put on a roof, and then there's always when some

562
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: tenant leaves and you rip out the walls and you

563
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: reconstruct the whole thing. And you've seen that going on

564
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: the malls, right, So is that the kind of construction

565
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: we're talking about, I'm not clear, A serious heavy duty

566
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: concrete slabs kind of unclear unclear. Um, but through this

567
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,959
Speaker 1: construction site, which I understand was kind of hard to

568
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: navigate even in the light, and you know, had lots

569
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: of construction e hazards. You do, actually not think about it.

570
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: Whoever it was, Dateline or whoever it was, showed some

571
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: footage of the quote unquote construction area, and it almost

572
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: looked like a back section. How you see where there's

573
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: all the pipes for for like malls, all of the

574
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: plumbing runs through one area. Yeah, but I wasn't clear

575
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: if that was I don't know if that's actually that

576
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: or not, but it really gave me the impression that

577
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: it was more of they were doing construction on that

578
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: internal plumbing stuff and not a tenant's location like you

579
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: were talking about. Okay, but regardless, it's it's the only

580
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: way in or out of this whole area is through

581
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: that one camera surveillance thing or through the construction zone

582
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: at the time that Brian Shaffer was probably and probably

583
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: that's because they had torn out a wall and had built,

584
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: but it was it was, you know, full construction zone,

585
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: you know, plywooded off with like a door into it

586
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: and then tons of hazards somewhere you don't want to

587
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: drunk to go wandering base actly. Yeah, and one that

588
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: you would presume would be locked at night when it's

589
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: like nobody needs access to it, but you think so. Yeah,

590
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: So so the guys arrived back at the Ugly Tuna

591
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: Saluna yep at midnight back to Yeah, back the tracking thing.

592
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: They actually they arrive back to the Ugly Tuna saluna

593
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: at about one fifteen am, according to the surveillance camera

594
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: footage that I was watching, the time stamp on it

595
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: and the reporting though, Yes, so I guess they were

596
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: bar hopping with Meredith a little bit before they came

597
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: back to the Ugly Tuna Meredith wherever, right, right, that's

598
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: what I mean. And then about forty minutes later, Brian

599
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: is seen on the same surveillance camera at the top

600
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: of that stairs escalator area. Like I said, the quality

601
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: is really good. You can see it's definitely Brian there.

602
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: It looks a little intoxicated. He doesn't. He does, but

603
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: he doesn't look like sloppy drunk. But he does not

604
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: look sober. Yeah, but drink for four hours. He's definitely

605
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: been drinking for four hours. But he's not like, you know,

606
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: falling all over himself. He's still able to walk and

607
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: and and apparently not be so drunk because there are

608
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: also two security guards standing at the top of the stairs,

609
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: so he's not so drunk that they felt like they

610
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: needed to intervene yea, I noticed that in this video.

611
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: I was just telling you about there's do you go

612
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: out there and there's a security guard standing right there,

613
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: It's like, what a great job that must be. But

614
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: they got them right there, that is, that's how they

615
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: can see the drunks coming right at the escalator and

616
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: just intercept him before I have no idea from the

617
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: bar and turn around and shove them right back down

618
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: to downs. I have no idea, I really don't. But yeah,

619
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: there were two security guards up there, and then there

620
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 1: are two young women that he can be seen talking to. Uh,

621
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,879
Speaker 1: and there's a group of guys as well, kind of

622
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 1: off to the side. Yeah. And and some people say, oh,

623
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: these guys followed him in and beat him up, but

624
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: they seem to be standing there. They don't seem to

625
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: be making movement, bottle him or an acknowledges. Yeah, but

626
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: he does. He talks to these two young ladies for

627
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: a minute, and then he walks back into the bar.

628
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: And that's the absolute last time that anybody has ever

629
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: been able to say they've seen Branch officially, officially, well

630
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: not officially. It's the last time that anybody's ever come

631
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:05,439
Speaker 1: for word and said, is what I'm getting at? Well? Yeah,

632
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: I mean, but nobody's ever even claimed to really see

633
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 1: him after that. I mean, that's the last time that

634
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: anybody's ever said anything about brand Shaffer existing in this world.

635
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: So that was that one am, this would be, this

636
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 1: would be before he wants to talk to the band, right,

637
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's unclear, Okay, Yeah, So it

638
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: was my impression that Meredith and Clint lost track of

639
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: Brian pretty quickly after they got back to the Ugly

640
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 1: Tuna Salona. So you know, probably like one thirty ish

641
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: would be my guess. I don't know, just guessing, just

642
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: thrown out numbers here and then he could have gone out,

643
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: or it could have been then, but the bar close

644
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,399
Speaker 1: they left the bar, they actually got their seemed going

645
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: back to their car at two oh seven, So it's

646
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 1: that's a pretty quick time for them to be like, oh,

647
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: we lost track of him, Okay, we'll see him coming out,

648
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: and then wait five minutes and then say, oh, okay, whatever,

649
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: you just went home, I guess. But I didn't go

650
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: inside the bar or check the bathrooms or anything like that.

651
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 1: I So that's why I think they lost track of

652
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,919
Speaker 1: him much earlier in the night, because it makes way

653
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: more sense even in a drunk brain for them to

654
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: say we haven't seen him in a half hour. He

655
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: probably just went home. He was tired, you know, versus

656
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: we saw five minutes ago. Whoa, I wonder where he went.

657
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: He just must have gone home. It's fine, you know.

658
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: That's my two cents still, And I heard that in

659
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: two thousand and six. That was kind of a bad neighborhood.

660
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: And they really probably shouldn't. They should have checked a

661
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: little more thoroughly. Probably, but you know, they were also drinking,

662
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: and they were they were dropped, and they were young

663
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 1: and irresponsible. I got it. Yeah. So yeah, that's everything

664
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: we know for sure about Brian Shaffer. Well okay then,

665
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: so um we're about theories. But first we're going to

666
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: take a break. Hello, and welcome to Spontaneous Poetry Night

667
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: here at Thinking Sideways Studios. First, as a master of

668
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: terrible and amazing or really terrible puns me, sky scrapers

669
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: are tall, embankments are small. There's only one true ring

670
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: to rule them all. Wait, that's wrong, Sorry, they hang on,

671
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: hang on link, let me start again. One thousand bad

672
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,439
Speaker 1: guys bullets fly, but none of them hit our good

673
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 1: guy heroes. Bullets barrel fourth many enemies end up with

674
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: their heads facing north. No, No, that's that's all right,

675
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: all right, here we go. Thors Hammer is huge, and

676
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: so is that dude like that. I don't even know

677
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: where the hell that came from. Um, let's try this

678
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: one more time, because I think I've got it. The

679
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,760
Speaker 1: fence may have known what trouble was brewing and stewing,

680
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 1: but unfortunately they did not know what they were doing.

681
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: Ha I nailed it. What the heck does that have

682
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 1: to do with anything? Well, that has to do with

683
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: the new show coming out on Hulu, The Looming Tower.

684
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: Looming Tower is based on the Pulletzer Prize winning book

685
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,280
Speaker 1: by Lawrence Right, and this limited series traces the easing

686
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: threat of a SMA bin Laden and how the rivalry

687
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: between the f beyond the CIA may have set a

688
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: path for the events of nine eleven. Starring Emmy winner

689
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:15,919
Speaker 1: Jeff Daniels, Golden Globe nominee Peter Sarsgard and to hear

690
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:21,720
Speaker 1: Raheem as Ali Soufan. The Looming Towers available only on Hulu,

691
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: So go there and check it out, and we're back.

692
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 1: Our first theory is Aliens abducted him. Okay, I can

693
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: get behind this flushed this out for me. Unlikely. Okay,

694
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 1: you're just jerking my chain. As soon as I get

695
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: on the alien bandwagon, she jerks the rug out from

696
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: underneath me. Well, if you look at pictures at the

697
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: Egg of Salona, the building it's hand, it actually looks

698
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: kind of like a spaceport. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean

699
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 1: I could totally see a little mixed up with the

700
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:56,280
Speaker 1: aliens there. Yeah, honestly, for all we know, somehow without

701
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: anybody else noticing, Brian Shaefer was abducted by aliens from

702
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: the Ugly Tuna Salona after five am the night of

703
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: March Well, I guess by that time April one, two

704
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: thousand and six, what did I say, that's somewhere he

705
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,240
Speaker 1: is currently drafting crop circles for the aliens. Yeah, okay,

706
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: why not? Why not? I don't, I think, because it's silly.

707
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,399
Speaker 1: Probably not that one. Actually he would be a high

708
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: value one for the aliens. Yeah, probably have medical knowledge

709
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: and stuff, you know, so it makes sense. So he

710
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 1: is now in charge of the probe program. Yeah, okay,

711
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 1: he's their lead scientist on medical humanoid research. Is in

712
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 1: the bottom of the chain, Yeah anyway, Sorry, More seriously,

713
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: the next theory is that he left to start a

714
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: new life or otherwise take a break. I mean, I can,

715
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,919
Speaker 1: I can kind of see this one. For one thing,

716
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: there's I mean, no evidence of a crime has really

717
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:01,240
Speaker 1: ever been found. The police brought in prime seen experts

718
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: and dogs see if they can find blood or anything

719
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: to suggest that Brian had been harmed or around the

720
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: Ugly Tuna saluna. Didn't find anything. Although especially if we've

721
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 1: been murdered in the kitchen, then I sing about murdering

722
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: people in an industrial type kitchen, commercial kitchen, you have

723
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: to clean it every day anyhow, really, and so it's

724
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: a great excuse to go, you know, whereas if I

725
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 1: cleaned my kitchen, that would be suspicious. Well, if you

726
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: cleaned anything, it would be suspicious. But but but one

727
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: thing I will say is that in a kitchen at

728
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 1: a pop I mean you at a place like the

729
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: Ugly Tuna sluna, not much blood. Usually around the bloody,

730
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: bloody beef they actually well food. Well even if it isn't.

731
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: I mean, you know this about the meat that we

732
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 1: get in America, it doesn't ever have actual blood in it.

733
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: It has that thing that it secretes is something totally different.

734
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 1: Not actually blood. It's been drained of blood. So if

735
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 1: there's blood in the kitchen, either a chef was real

736
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: bad at doing his job and cut himself or somebody

737
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 1: was murdered there. Either way, there was no real evidence

738
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,720
Speaker 1: of that in or around the Ugly Tunas Luna as mentioned,

739
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: So you know, so in that respect, it does kind

740
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: of speak to him just walking away and starting life. Yeah.

741
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: On the other hand, like we said, search dogs couldn't

742
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: track a track him out of there, which seems like

743
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: they would have been able to do had he just

744
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: walked out on his own. Also, no activity on any

745
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: of his bank accounts or his cell phone has been reported,

746
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: nor did he take out cash. But if you want

747
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: to start a new life, you know, of course he

748
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 1: would have all new back accounts and credit cards already

749
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 1: set up. Sure, you would think he would have cleaned

750
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 1: out the back accounts. You would think that. Yeah, And

751
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,919
Speaker 1: apparently he wasn't really a cash guy. He didn't really

752
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: carry cash with him, which is like most of people

753
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: in large generation. Um, so his ability to survive without

754
00:41:52,719 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: account seems unlikely. You millennials flail with cash, yeah, uh,

755
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: plastic and bitcoin mostly. How many bitcoins do you have

756
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 1: any wallet right now about point o O O O

757
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 1: five of a bitcoin, so you're you're practically a millionaire

758
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: and they're worth a lot right now. Oh wait, no, wait,

759
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: I have one dollar? Wait a million dollars? Yeah. One

760
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 1: thing I'll mentioned here is that Alexis did make a

761
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: habit of calling his phone a lot. I think she

762
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: even said it herself. She just wanted to hear his voice,

763
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 1: which I think is understandable. Yeah, she said that one

764
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: time she called and it rang instead of going streaked

765
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 1: voicemail singular. That's how old this case is. Brian, then

766
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: cell phone provider, said that it was a fluke. We've

767
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: talked about this on the show before that oftentimes a

768
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,240
Speaker 1: phone will return a ring while it's trying to connect.

769
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: It's not actually ringing to um. One of the things

770
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 1: that I wondered about what this is how long did

771
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: these calls that she Alexis made to him a lot?

772
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 1: Because I heard it one out for like six months

773
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: or or more. I can call on the phone. So

774
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,839
Speaker 1: who was paying his phone bill? I think his dad

775
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: was paying him the entire time. I don't think he

776
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: was paying for his own phone bill. That wasn't the

777
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 1: impression I had at least. Okay, Yeah, so somebody kept

778
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: it just maybe just hoping still had the phone on

779
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: him or something like that. Yeah, I mean I presume

780
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 1: it was probably a family plan. Um. I was on

781
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 1: my parents family plan for a long time. Well, especially

782
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 1: when kids, when your kids are still in school, that's

783
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 1: the way to ensure that they can always call well,

784
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 1: but also to ensure they can always call you. You

785
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,879
Speaker 1: don't have an excuse to not call you. But I would,

786
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: you know, if my child went missing. I don't have

787
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 1: any children, but if I could put myself in those boots,

788
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: I would keep paying the plan if I had no

789
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: idea where that kid was dead or otherwise, just on

790
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: the hope that maybe one day they'd turn it on

791
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,800
Speaker 1: and call me. Yeah, you know, absolutely, I totally get that. Ye. Also,

792
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 1: you'll see people suggest that Brian had traded clothes with

793
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: someone and snuck out in someone else's clothes. But like

794
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: we said, it was a good camera, and I think

795
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: it's not as though Brian was wearing crazy unique clothing,

796
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: but it was a good enough camera that if somebody

797
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: was leaving leaving something that wearing something that looks kind

798
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: of like his, that would you would be able to

799
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 1: see it. I don't know. I just I don't. I

800
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: don't think a lot about that theory as a whole.

801
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 1: Bryan could have it could have actually had on a

802
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 1: layer of clothes underneath his clothes. And I don't take

803
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 1: tick clothes off, stuff them in a waste basket in

804
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: the restroom, walk back out with the new the new

805
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: layer of clothes on, you know. And so I mean

806
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 1: I could see that you don't need to trade clothes

807
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 1: with somebody or have a cocause it didn't really look

808
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,439
Speaker 1: like he was wearing enough clothes to be wearing something

809
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: under it. But it's possibly could had a T shirt

810
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: on underneath this other shirt. Well, okay, so let me

811
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: stop you because I can tell looking through the list here,

812
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 1: this is the only theory that you have wherein he

813
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: leaves under his own power. It appears that everything else

814
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: is in some way. Uh, it's it's not so much

815
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: so there there actually is another theory out there where

816
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: he leaves under his own power, but it's similar to this.

817
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 1: But there are a couple other theories peppered in here

818
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: where he might have left on his own power. Well,

819
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,399
Speaker 1: let's let's just talk about this now while we're here,

820
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe'll help of the other theories later on.

821
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: Is I, as a younger man, when drinking, I used

822
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: to develop what I called drunk kleptomania, wherein I would

823
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: see something like, let's just say a ball cap and

824
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: be like, oh, that's a nice hat. I'll take it

825
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 1: and put it on and walk away with it. I had.

826
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,360
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like I have a habit of

827
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 1: stealing things. It just it was like a fascination, and

828
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: so I just kept it. He could have very easily

829
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: picked up a hat or put on somebody's jacket and

830
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 1: then wandered out there. And while that camera is good

831
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: from behind, if his clothing suddenly, you know, like just

832
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: his say a jacket or a hat, he's now rendered

833
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: not easily identifiable by that camera, maybe not identifiable. So

834
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 1: he could have potentially just walked out of the bar

835
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: on his own and not had what I'm seeing as

836
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 1: kind of these nefarious theories down the line. True, don't

837
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: you think a tracker dog would have been able to

838
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: track him? Though? Still they didn't bring him into days after, right, Yeah, Yeah,

839
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,439
Speaker 1: so that's I mean, there's a lot of traffic I mean,

840
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 1: bars have so many people coming. Plus also that that

841
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: floor that's like like the bar, the bar floor, and

842
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 1: the floor front the escalator. Probably the escalator probably was

843
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: getting clean mopped vacuum because you know, it was hurt

844
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:42,839
Speaker 1: all the time. Still drinks and yeah, yeah, I mean

845
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 1: that's definitely al I can picture this. He meets a girl,

846
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: they kind of hit it off. She's a little chilly,

847
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: so he pulls off his shirt he's still wearing a

848
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 1: T shirt and puts it over her, and so she's

849
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 1: wearing his shirt and they leave the bar together, you know,

850
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: But then what happens to him after? I mean you

851
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:00,839
Speaker 1: still have to explain all that. Is that to be like,

852
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 1: you know, sort of black widow. Now see, I've I've

853
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: thought about this before. Is I figured, well, either he

854
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 1: walked outside, whether it's with another lady or by himself,

855
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: and then this is where my he crawled into a

856
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 1: dumpster idea came from, or because it is a crappy neighborhood,

857
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: somebody said hey, buddy, come here and then beat the

858
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 1: crap out of him and then dumped his body somewhere

859
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: where he goes home to a girl and boyfriend. Let's

860
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 1: just pause on that a second, because I do we

861
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: are going to talk about. But let's get to another

862
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 1: fun theory that I heard on the internet where he

863
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: left under his own volition and this makes sense, and

864
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: that and then his mother had just died, and that

865
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: is that. The theory here is that Brian really wanted

866
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 1: to be a woman, and so he goes into the

867
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: bar and changes into like, you know, women's clothing and

868
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,359
Speaker 1: leaves and starts his new life as Bette Midler. Yeah.

869
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: I guess there was Brianna or something, and so this

870
00:47:55,560 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: is Brianna, Yeah, Brihanna. Yeah. But anyway, this is on

871
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: like Redd and or something like that. You know, I

872
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: don't take it too seriously, but you know, I mean,

873
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: we owe it to our listeners to get them every

874
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 1: loopy theories out there. I don't think we owe it

875
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 1: to them at all. Iologies to mispronouncing your name. No,

876
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: he was talking about Brianna, like female version of Brian.

877
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 1: Oh I thought you were talking about the singer. No. No,

878
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 1: but okay, So more seriously, though, I do just want

879
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: to say about this whole left to start a new

880
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: life type theory that his disappearance really seems I mean,

881
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: it really caused those in his life a lot of pain.

882
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: I mean, he just didn't seem like the kind of

883
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: guy to do that, you know. I mean, and I

884
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: know that's kind of a cop out thing to say,

885
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: he just didn't seem like the kind of guy to

886
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 1: do that, But I really his dad is just like heartbroken.

887
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 1: He was even more so was Yeah, and and Alexis

888
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: and and Brian's brother Derek, and everybody who really cared

889
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 1: about him was just so heartbroken that I don't I

890
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: just don't think he would have just walked away from

891
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:05,359
Speaker 1: all that. I feel, you know, I feel kind of

892
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,959
Speaker 1: really sad for his younger brother because his mom died

893
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 1: and then Brian disappears, and then his dad was killed

894
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,800
Speaker 1: in a freak accident. Accident, Yeah, just like two years later,

895
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,280
Speaker 1: and so he's like an orphan, you know, his brother's

896
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: got in like two years time. They all die. Yeah,

897
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: oh my god, it's really yeah. I mean, so, I

898
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 1: just I just don't think he I don't think he

899
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 1: would have done it. He would would have thought he

900
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 1: would have come back for his dad's funeral anyway. Yeah. Yeah,

901
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: well we can talk about that later. Yeah. Uh so

902
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: the next theory is over it is an umbrella. Theory

903
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: is foul play ducks. No, the first one here is

904
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 1: random act. So this kind of feeds into what you

905
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 1: were talking about. Is that, either in the bar or

906
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,919
Speaker 1: potentially out of the bar, he could have left via

907
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 1: you know whatever, I met a girl, even though it

908
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: seems like he was pretty serious with this other girl,

909
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: but whatever, um break. Don't say that um Or for

910
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: whatever reason, left undetected of his own volition, but then

911
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 1: met some sort of foul play, got beat up, accidentally

912
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 1: slept in the dumpster, got picked up, things like that.

913
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: I don't see this one as much because there was

914
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,760
Speaker 1: no activity on his credit cards or his cell phone.

915
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 1: So if somebody I'd beat him up or whatever, you

916
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 1: would think they'd take a stuff and at least try

917
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,800
Speaker 1: to use it. Yeah. Maybe, But at the same time,

918
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: it's like if you mean the mug a guy and

919
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,240
Speaker 1: you accidentally kill him, Yeah, and you realize you probably

920
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 1: killed him. You might take his wallet, but then think,

921
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 1: you know, we're probably better not use this uses cards

922
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: and stuff, and well probably, And so I could totally

923
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: see where you you intended to just take his stuff

924
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,439
Speaker 1: and you unintentionally kill him, or I mean I guess

925
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 1: I couldn't even see now that I'm thinking about it.

926
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: You you know, you mug him, thinking we'll take all

927
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: the cash this guy's got. You know, he's probably got

928
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: some cash on him, he's got no cash, and you're like,

929
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 1: dang it, yeah, dang it, all right. Well never, I mean,

930
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:08,919
Speaker 1: if somebody mugged me, they'd get my credit cards. And

931
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: that's it because I have literally zero, like not even

932
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 1: a quarter in my wallet type of cash situations, so

933
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to have cash. It evaporates. Yeah. Well,

934
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 1: I mean that's why I stopped carrying cash, honestly, because

935
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 1: it was spent money in my brain and I was

936
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: just like, I can't do this anymore. So that's why

937
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 1: I prefer cash over like credit cards. Even though I

938
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 1: have cards and I use them, they're very handy, I

939
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:34,879
Speaker 1: find out more mindful of the way I spend money.

940
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 1: If I'm using cash, I use defit cards. So it's

941
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 1: that I use my debit card a lot more credit.

942
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 1: Nobody needs to know financial situation. But anyway, I do

943
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: think it's conceivable that somebody did actually mug him and

944
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:51,359
Speaker 1: just not you know, use the cards. Yeah, I mean,

945
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: it's it is, but I also think they did a

946
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: really good job hiding the body. Yeah, that's the thing

947
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: I don't get either. They would bother you know, the criminals.

948
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 1: Most criminals don't care about that kind of stuff. The

949
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 1: longer you hang out with the body, as a matter

950
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 1: of fact, the more likely or to get busted with

951
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: the body. So if you just run away and leave

952
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 1: it lay on the sidewalk, Yeah, and it was, and

953
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 1: it would have been a probably we can reasonably assume

954
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:17,839
Speaker 1: that it would have been relatively close to citywide last call,

955
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:23,399
Speaker 1: so you know, Friday before spring break, college town last call,

956
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:25,760
Speaker 1: but there's gonna be a lot of people on the street.

957
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: It was what did they say it was like a

958
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: minute walk from the bar to his house? Yeah, I

959
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 1: heard it was like six blocks to his house. Is

960
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 1: that what? Okay? Something gave me the impression that was

961
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 1: close to campus. Well, but I got the impression that

962
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,319
Speaker 1: it would have taken him some time. No, it said

963
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 1: it would have run him through then not so nice neighborhoods.

964
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:50,280
Speaker 1: And so that's why he could have very easily disappeared.

965
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 1: If somebody assaults him, as Joe said, then realizes they

966
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 1: killed him, drag him into the backyard and then do

967
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 1: whatever they do to yeah, yeah, yeah, um and yeah.

968
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: Apparently the bad at least back in in two thousands six,

969
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: a bad neighborhood started like about a block away from

970
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:11,360
Speaker 1: the ugly. Now that there were so many security cameras,

971
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 1: it's probably actually the reason that there was a security Yeah,

972
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: probably now that we thought yeah, um okay, so I

973
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:25,240
Speaker 1: guess next are years already to move on. The next

974
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: duck theory is that the roadies for the band might

975
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 1: have been involved. I'm not totally sure what the motivation

976
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 1: would have been here. It could have been, you know,

977
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 1: but I guess the only thing, the only other unexplored

978
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:42,280
Speaker 1: lead really is that Brian was seen chatting with the band.

979
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 1: So you know, maybe the band was like, we didn't

980
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:46,839
Speaker 1: really want to talk to him, roadies, can you take

981
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:48,799
Speaker 1: care of him? Maybe he was like touching all over

982
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 1: their stuff. There's a number of things he could have

983
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: been doing, yeah, and I do yeah, So there's a

984
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 1: number of things that he could have done, you know,

985
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 1: low imagine that might have kind of just ticked off

986
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 1: a roadie or one of the bands something I doubt.

987
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:11,320
Speaker 1: You know. Typically bar bands don't have roadies. They usually

988
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 1: carry their own stuff. Yeah, well they'll have the big

989
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: dumb friend. They usually keeps people out of the van

990
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 1: while they're loading. Sometimes they do have that, and that

991
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 1: drives and that is the important support that person has.

992
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,479
Speaker 1: Typically isn't drinking because Devin said, they're the one, because

993
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 1: the band is normally getting drinks. And also, you know,

994
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: they gotta like sleep for the next gig they're I

995
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 1: don't know, but I don't Yeah, and I guess I

996
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 1: don't really know. But you know, there's so many different

997
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: things that I guess could have happened here. But he

998
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:49,240
Speaker 1: could have been injured or killed the band, the band

999
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 1: or somebody associated with the band, Yeah, exactly. Um, you know,

1000
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: maybe he even it was like a total accident. Maybe

1001
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: he fell over the drum set and the symbol just

1002
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: like crashed on his head and he was knocked unconscious

1003
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: and they were like, oh god, what are we doing? Yeah,

1004
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:10,799
Speaker 1: I mean, and so that is actually the theory is

1005
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 1: that it's possible that his body was stuck into a

1006
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:17,720
Speaker 1: case for something and then rolled out and put into

1007
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 1: the band van and then but the thing is is

1008
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 1: that then they would have to bring that case back

1009
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 1: in and put what actually belonged in there in there

1010
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,879
Speaker 1: to take it back out. And it seems like assuming

1011
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 1: this is assuming that that camera any of the cameras

1012
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 1: around where they were loading, and I assumed they were

1013
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 1: loading through the back, but I don't actually know that

1014
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 1: for sure, um was working. That's that is a big

1015
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:46,359
Speaker 1: assumption that we have to make here. The police would

1016
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 1: have been while they were reviewing all those failings tape

1017
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,760
Speaker 1: seen these people like would come with this like giant,

1018
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 1: you know, drum kit case and like go into their

1019
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 1: truck and like do some stuff and then come back

1020
00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 1: out with the case, and they probably would have thought

1021
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,839
Speaker 1: we should talk to these people of that suspicious. Yeah,

1022
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 1: although um another theory that I heard is that he

1023
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:08,479
Speaker 1: wants to chat with the band. They were breaking down

1024
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 1: at that time, taking it and getting ready to get

1025
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 1: out of there, and he was chatting, of course, but

1026
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to shot talk about you know,

1027
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,760
Speaker 1: their guitars and all kinds of other stuff. And and meantime,

1028
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 1: this guy is about to you know, haul something heavy

1029
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:21,400
Speaker 1: out there, and Brian's like, hey, let me help you

1030
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 1: with that. So he helps the guy take it to

1031
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:25,200
Speaker 1: the freight elevator and they go down to go out

1032
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 1: the back way, and that might be he was just

1033
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 1: with being with the band. He might have actually been

1034
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 1: helping this guy loved something. He was behind it when

1035
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 1: the camera goes off and everything, so he doesn't get

1036
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 1: seem going out the back so he's actually helping these

1037
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 1: guys carry carry something heavy item out the back door.

1038
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:43,800
Speaker 1: And once they're out there, the guy says, hey, dude, thanks,

1039
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 1: he you want to go do a couple of lines

1040
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 1: in my vand before we go back inside. I mean,

1041
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 1: it's not right. That's a heart attack from the front

1042
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 1: the I mean, this thing is totally possible as well. Yeah,

1043
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 1: even if they're not doing lines that he leaves with

1044
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 1: the band for you know, not whatever, to leave with

1045
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 1: a band, to leave to go drink some more or whatever.

1046
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:05,480
Speaker 1: I did think. I do tend to think with this

1047
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,680
Speaker 1: case that the fact that he got out of there,

1048
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 1: that he got out of there without being seen by

1049
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 1: the cameras, and the fact that he disappeared, they're obviously related.

1050
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: I mean they're not there could be too, very just coincidentally,

1051
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 1: two really unusual things happening. I don't think one thing, Yeah,

1052
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 1: and one thing I will say is um, as we're

1053
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 1: talking about these backdoors. Like I said, it's my understanding

1054
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 1: they were like rigged to go off with an alarm,

1055
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:32,200
Speaker 1: but they were also probably the loading dock. Probably, I

1056
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 1: don't know that for sure. I've gone out to some

1057
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 1: of those doors that say an alarm will go off

1058
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: and it doesn't go off, right, And then the other thing, Yeah,

1059
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 1: And then the other thing is is that um I

1060
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: was reading I think I was reading through I'll write

1061
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 1: it threat on this or something like that, and some

1062
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 1: guy was a bartender and he said, yeah, we have

1063
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 1: a backdoor that's rigged with a motion detecting camera quote

1064
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: unquote right, And we turned the sensitivity to thing on

1065
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: that thing way down slash off because every time a

1066
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: leaf blew past, it was going off and we were

1067
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 1: like being alerted and we just couldn't or it was

1068
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: malfunctioning or whatever. There's so much that could have gone

1069
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 1: wrong with that camera. But because we don't see anything,

1070
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 1: I've never seen in the reporting of this, you know,

1071
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: the police saying also we reviewed the tape from the

1072
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 1: back camera. They don't talk about the tape from the

1073
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 1: back came at all, which leads everybody to believe that

1074
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 1: the back camera didn't ever grow off right, never activated,

1075
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: so there was no motion back there, when actually it

1076
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 1: could be it was just turned off or wasn't working

1077
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: or whatever, or somebody had outsmarted at a k A

1078
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 1: put a piece of tape over it so that the

1079
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: band walking back and forth, the door opens for the

1080
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 1: Maybe the employees like to go smoke back there, and

1081
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 1: they weren't supposed to take smoke breaks. I mean, honestly,

1082
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: there's so many things that could have happened to that

1083
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 1: back camera. Um that that's and that's another thing. That's

1084
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 1: the way you could have gotten out that way, Like

1085
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 1: you're talking about, you might have been talking to somebody

1086
00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 1: who worked at the bar, so you know, and they said, hey,

1087
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 1: you know, I don't have much time, but I don't

1088
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 1: want to go smoke a cigarette. Could you want to

1089
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:06,200
Speaker 1: go out back? And so, and once out there they

1090
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 1: get jumped or you know, I've gotten Maybe he got

1091
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 1: some secondhand smoke and it killed him. Yeah, I don't know, Yeah,

1092
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 1: because smoke kills second Yeah, yeah, tell that, but I don't.

1093
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 1: I don't find it too perplexing actually that he got

1094
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 1: out of that without being spotted on camera, though, really

1095
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 1: I don't either. I mean That's the thing with this

1096
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: case is initially you were led to believe one way in,

1097
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 1: one way out always surveiled. And the more I read,

1098
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 1: the more I decided that's actually not completely true. And

1099
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: there's a whole nest of ways that he could have

1100
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: exited the building unobserved. So, um, Brian briefly was you know,

1101
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 1: like we said six too. He was also like a

1102
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty five pounds kind of normal build. Um,

1103
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 1: so it is possible that he could have been helping

1104
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,920
Speaker 1: with something. Um. The next three I'm just going to

1105
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 1: move a little bit further through these, is that like

1106
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 1: the bouncer could have done something, you know, it's kind

1107
00:59:57,560 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 1: of the same theory of he could have had an

1108
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 1: altercation with a bouncer and they bounced him a little

1109
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 1: too hard, though I don't I don't know if they

1110
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 1: had bouncers because they had the security guards right outside.

1111
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 1: And it's my understanding that the Ugly Tuna Saluna had

1112
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 1: a small restaurant component to it. It wasn't just like

1113
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 1: a bar, it was like a seafood bar and grill.

1114
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:25,919
Speaker 1: So the host slashed hostess station may have served as

1115
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:29,640
Speaker 1: their age checker or there's no age limit on the space.

1116
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 1: There's just age limit on getting booze. So the bartenders

1117
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 1: check your I d when you go up, and that's it.

1118
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 1: I've been to a number of places in college towns.

1119
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 1: Tends to not be that way. It tends to be

1120
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 1: a person sitting there checking ID. But it's usually like

1121
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,440
Speaker 1: that's also not necessarily a bouncer type person. It's just

1122
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 1: like a dude or a lady sitting on a stool

1123
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 1: board out of their mind checking I das. And sometimes

1124
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 1: those guys too that they'll they'll deliberately hire a guy

1125
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 1: who's a big guy, but who's but actually he's not

1126
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 1: actually trained in martial arts. He's not actually mean or

1127
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 1: going to brutalize anybody, but maybe not that strong tattoo

1128
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 1: Yeah those tattoo sleeves. Yeah yeah, but I mean so that.

1129
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 1: But this is a theoryal C floated around, is that

1130
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 1: it doesn't look to me, like looking at the pictures

1131
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:22,040
Speaker 1: and the videos and stuff like, it doesn't look like

1132
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: the kind of bar that really needs, you know, really

1133
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 1: and there's those two security guards right outside, so if

1134
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 1: something does happen, they can come out. And you know,

1135
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:33,920
Speaker 1: the other thing is is that I've never seen anything

1136
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:38,920
Speaker 1: about Brian being a particularly violent or angry drunk. Some

1137
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:42,680
Speaker 1: people can be just obnoxious drunks, maybe, yeah, but he

1138
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 1: certainly doesn't look violent or angry or really that obnoxious

1139
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 1: on the tape at one five am, and that tape

1140
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 1: is literally like five or ten minutes before his friends

1141
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:56,200
Speaker 1: and everyone left. And by the way, we need to

1142
01:01:56,240 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 1: point out, so at that point he's seen outside the

1143
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:05,320
Speaker 1: bar talking to two ladies and they are eventually identified

1144
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 1: and interviewed. So it's not as if he went home

1145
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 1: with them or he was being harassing to them. He

1146
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:14,919
Speaker 1: just chatted with them standing outside like there was nothing

1147
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:18,480
Speaker 1: unto the Yeah, they reported it was a fine interaction.

1148
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: It wasn't, you know, amazing, But it wasn't like awful.

1149
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 1: It was just like a drunk day, yeah, And it

1150
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 1: didn't seem like his mood was in a weird spot

1151
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 1: or anything like that. So, you know, it just seems

1152
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 1: like five or ten minutes is is pretty quick for

1153
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 1: it to have been a very secret, weird altercation. You know.

1154
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 1: It's one thing if somebody said, oh, yeah, and there

1155
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 1: was this huge fight in the bar, we don't really

1156
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 1: know what's going on, but there was some big altercation.

1157
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 1: They dragged the guy out to one minute escalation followed

1158
01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 1: by body whiskey away. Yeah, that's that's a little more phenomenal. Yeah,

1159
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 1: it just seems really quick and unlikely. A lot of

1160
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 1: witnesses there. I think that if there was an altercation,

1161
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 1: it happened outside after he got out, like you know,

1162
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 1: in the back, in the back. Yeah, I would guess

1163
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:02,240
Speaker 1: that as well. Um. And then the last theory that

1164
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 1: we have, if you guys are ready you is um

1165
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 1: that it could have been an accident. He could have

1166
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 1: drunkenly left via the construction site, as Joe kind of mentioned,

1167
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 1: that we're somehow unlocked and fallen into a hole or

1168
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:23,640
Speaker 1: a wall and been accidentally covered up if they pour

1169
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:26,440
Speaker 1: concrete over the top of them. Yeah, it seems like

1170
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 1: you would see a body in there. But maybe I'm wrong.

1171
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's not as though it was like

1172
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:35,240
Speaker 1: this giant pit, you know, where he could have been

1173
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 1: kind of covered with dirt and they were nobody was

1174
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 1: really looking and it was just like alright back the

1175
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 1: concrete truck up. I mean, the Christmas is a fairly Yeah,

1176
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:46,160
Speaker 1: this was a pretty small space. I don't believe that's

1177
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:48,560
Speaker 1: the way those things work. I don't either. I think

1178
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 1: they actually look in there to make sure that, you know,

1179
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 1: crap hasn't fallen in I would think yep, um, but yeah,

1180
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 1: yeah in them. Yeah. So I see this a lot

1181
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 1: on the internet, like a lot, and it just doesn't

1182
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 1: necessarily compute to me. It would. It would have to

1183
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: be like somebody intentionally put his body in a wall

1184
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 1: or hole and intentionally covered it up, and then the

1185
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: construction crew came in in the morning and they were like,

1186
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:20,840
Speaker 1: Bob must have put the drywall up before he left

1187
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 1: last night. Weird. Okay, well, let's keep going. Well, it

1188
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:26,240
Speaker 1: definitely couldn't have been in the wall, in the dry wall,

1189
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 1: because the smell would have been apparent rather quickly. But

1190
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:32,760
Speaker 1: but but that's sort of right. But and the other

1191
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 1: thing is, though, is we don't know, so none of

1192
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 1: us are still here clear on exactly where this construction is.

1193
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:41,280
Speaker 1: But if he were to have been in the bottom

1194
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 1: of a hole, there has to be a pile of

1195
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 1: dirt that is used to at least partially cover his

1196
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 1: body up. And the thing to remember a lot of

1197
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 1: times with holes like that, when they're going to pour

1198
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 1: concrete in them. Do you know what they do to him,

1199
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:57,040
Speaker 1: call the dirt out, They pack up the company. They

1200
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 1: pack them so that it doesn't settle. So if suddenly

1201
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 1: you look in there and there's all this nice, loose,

1202
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 1: soft dirt, you're saying, oh, Billy, damn it, I told

1203
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 1: you to pack it. You're going to get in there

1204
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 1: to take care of that, and you're going to find

1205
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 1: the body, right, you know, scant interest below. So, and

1206
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:16,720
Speaker 1: that's what I mean is that if if somebody had

1207
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 1: intentionally hid in his body in the construction site, that's

1208
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:24,480
Speaker 1: one thing. But all of these kind of speculations on

1209
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 1: the Internet of people saying, well he just walked into

1210
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: the construction site and accidentally fell into something, that's just

1211
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:35,120
Speaker 1: total bunk to me, even drunk. I don't think Brian

1212
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 1: was a bright guy. I don't think you're that stupid

1213
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 1: to what walk into a construction site. Yeah, I mean,

1214
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 1: walk into all construction site and fall into a hole

1215
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:48,439
Speaker 1: or something like that. Um, I've I've drunkenly wandered into

1216
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:50,920
Speaker 1: construction sites and I'm very lucky that I didn't fall

1217
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:53,680
Speaker 1: into Here's here's the thing is, we did say that

1218
01:05:53,680 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 1: Brian was very bright. You're right, No, I have wandered

1219
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 1: two places, you know, because you're just like when you're drunk,

1220
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 1: maybe this is a fast way out curious. I mean,

1221
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 1: I agree, but even so, I think they would have

1222
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:12,960
Speaker 1: found his body. There's one other like accident theory that

1223
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 1: is that Brian could have drunkenly fallen into the river

1224
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:21,240
Speaker 1: and been whisked. It's not the smiley face, but every

1225
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:23,440
Speaker 1: once in a while people lump him into the Smiley

1226
01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:26,520
Speaker 1: face murderers. But then there's a there's but there's another

1227
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 1: theory that it's not related to smiley face, but he

1228
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 1: still fell fell into the river and was then the

1229
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:35,920
Speaker 1: washed down river. My understanding is that the river that

1230
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:38,600
Speaker 1: goes through Columbus is like the closest of approaches where

1231
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 1: he was is about a mile. He would have been

1232
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 1: really far away and really lost. Yeah, which is typical

1233
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 1: of all of these other smiling things. True. But there

1234
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:50,280
Speaker 1: was also also somebody posted the thing on redd apparently

1235
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:53,440
Speaker 1: it's from Columbush said, basically, the river where it flows

1236
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:56,640
Speaker 1: through town, it's been damned to bring the level up,

1237
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 1: and it's really kind of more like a reservoir than

1238
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:04,400
Speaker 1: a flowing river. Slow. Yeah, and they had they occasionally

1239
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 1: drained it for reasons and so you can see all

1240
01:07:06,840 --> 01:07:09,280
Speaker 1: the craft that's on the bottom, So his boy would

1241
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 1: have been fat. Well. They did find about so they

1242
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:14,840
Speaker 1: did a really extensive search of the river slash reservoir situation,

1243
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 1: and they did find actually a skeleton at one point

1244
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:20,600
Speaker 1: a couple of years a year later, and they thought

1245
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 1: it might be Brian, but it was not. What's that?

1246
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 1: What country is it that has all the locks and

1247
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: waterways through the city in Europe? Um Amsterdam? Oh, it

1248
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:35,520
Speaker 1: might be Amsterdam. One of those. They recently drained a

1249
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 1: whole bunch of it because they had to do massive repairs,

1250
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:42,480
Speaker 1: and you got to see fifty years worth of stuff

1251
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 1: with people. There was bicycles and motorcycles. But then they

1252
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 1: were finding cars that had been there for forty years

1253
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:52,200
Speaker 1: but the water was cold enough that they hadn't really

1254
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:56,760
Speaker 1: rusted away. It was actually amazing interesting the imagery of it.

1255
01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:59,120
Speaker 1: So I could just imagine what it's like when they're

1256
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 1: draining this one Ohio and beer bottles U Yeah, the

1257
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:08,680
Speaker 1: just you know the there's there used to be a

1258
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 1: boat ramp. It's still there, but there's blocked off now.

1259
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,760
Speaker 1: But down right by the Selwood Bridge. Yeah, there's a

1260
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 1: boat ramp there and they blocked it off of a

1261
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 1: concrete barrier. But before they did that, apparently that was

1262
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 1: the place to go when you put your to push

1263
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: your car into the river. Then, so there were a

1264
01:08:23,479 --> 01:08:26,679
Speaker 1: lot of cars down there. Yeah, they've they since pulled

1265
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 1: them out. They put a lot of car but people

1266
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:30,759
Speaker 1: would go shove their car in there and then report

1267
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 1: it stolen and collect the insurance when they were tired

1268
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 1: of their car or whatever you can. You know, yeah, well, hey,

1269
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:36,960
Speaker 1: that's a good way to get your money out of it.

1270
01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 1: But again, back to Brian, though I am totally sure

1271
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 1: he did not fall unto the river. You know that

1272
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 1: he maybe fell face first, drunkenly into a mud puddle

1273
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 1: and round and then came along and threw him in

1274
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:54,720
Speaker 1: a dumpster. Yeah. I find a dumpster theory, even though

1275
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:58,160
Speaker 1: it's implausible itself, to be more plausible than any of

1276
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:02,600
Speaker 1: the other falling into the construction site. I think, just overall,

1277
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:05,639
Speaker 1: the reason that this is such a popular cases because

1278
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:08,679
Speaker 1: none there's not a single theory out there that really

1279
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 1: satisfies me in terms of what I could believe. This

1280
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 1: is a failing on all of our parts is that

1281
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:18,160
Speaker 1: we all want the theory that nicely buttons it up

1282
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:21,840
Speaker 1: and tells us what happened. And I actually think that

1283
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 1: this story is kind of like the hourglass that you

1284
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:26,680
Speaker 1: sit on the side, is that it all kind of

1285
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:29,960
Speaker 1: narrows down. But if we just accepted that he got

1286
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:33,280
Speaker 1: out of the building without us seeing him on foot

1287
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:36,479
Speaker 1: on film, then it just it expands right back out

1288
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:39,559
Speaker 1: and then everything could have happened. This guy, he could

1289
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:43,720
Speaker 1: be anywhere in town. And that's where it becomes unsolvable

1290
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:46,599
Speaker 1: because now the police don't know where to look because

1291
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:49,800
Speaker 1: you have a city that's square mile upon square mile

1292
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:56,559
Speaker 1: and thousands upon thousands of people, homes, basements, trash bins,

1293
01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:59,120
Speaker 1: I mean where at that point, and there's no there's

1294
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:01,320
Speaker 1: no real clues to give any to to really make

1295
01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:03,400
Speaker 1: you want to favor one over the other. Yeah, I

1296
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:05,719
Speaker 1: like the idea. He meets a serial killer, the serial

1297
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 1: killer being a clever, hannibal electric kind of guy, has

1298
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:11,080
Speaker 1: already spotted the cameras and figure out a way to

1299
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 1: lure Bryan outside without being seen with him, and then

1300
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 1: murders him, gets rid of the body. That's yeah, I mean,

1301
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 1: that's really like it though, right, you know, yeah, yeah,

1302
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:28,760
Speaker 1: I just I just think I just think none of

1303
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 1: them are good. Yeah, no, there's no I think no

1304
01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:36,160
Speaker 1: slam dump theory. Yeah, I think that when his friend

1305
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:38,840
Speaker 1: Clint finally decides to share what he knows, if he

1306
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:41,800
Speaker 1: even knows anything, I just don't think that he does.

1307
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 1: I think he's just trying to protect himself because, like

1308
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 1: I would too, of opinion, was gonna you could tell him.

1309
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:50,719
Speaker 1: I think he could see very early on he's gonna ripped,

1310
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 1: get ripped a shrid. I just said, uh no, I'm

1311
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 1: giving you all the finger. I didn't do anything wrong

1312
01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:59,040
Speaker 1: because everybody gets mad at him because he wouldn't take

1313
01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:04,320
Speaker 1: a lie detector. Yeah, by detector tesh are so fallible, Yeah,

1314
01:11:04,439 --> 01:11:08,800
Speaker 1: they're they're worthless, So it doesn't prove squat. Yeah, but

1315
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 1: I I would like to hear if he's got anything,

1316
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:13,880
Speaker 1: use will say. I had heard that he threw. His

1317
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 1: lawyers said he would testify or you know, you know,

1318
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:20,360
Speaker 1: he would give information police or private investigators or who

1319
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:23,200
Speaker 1: believe if you got a grant of immunity. Well, I

1320
01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:25,639
Speaker 1: thought he told them everything he knew about that night.

1321
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:28,000
Speaker 1: So I don't know what else more he's going to

1322
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:33,360
Speaker 1: be sharing. Yeah. Yeah, it was cooperative. Yeah, it's tricky. Yeah,

1323
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:36,600
Speaker 1: it's so Yeah. And and the problem is again you know,

1324
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:38,679
Speaker 1: as we as we said many times in the past,

1325
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 1: it's a minefield when you talk to the police wand

1326
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:44,120
Speaker 1: have incriminating yourself with that meaning to even if you're innocent. Yeah,

1327
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:47,800
Speaker 1: but enough of that, Okay, forget it. I can't think

1328
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:51,160
Speaker 1: of a thing. Yeah, I was just gonna say, I

1329
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:56,000
Speaker 1: think that pretty much sums up the story episode. Yeah. Yeah,

1330
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:59,880
Speaker 1: it's a bad guy disappeared and uh yeah, yeah. Probably

1331
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,920
Speaker 1: if you are Clint and you want to talk to

1332
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:08,280
Speaker 1: us about you know, we won't accuse you. Probably we

1333
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:12,320
Speaker 1: will grant you immunity from the Thinking Sideways Tribunal. Um So,

1334
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:14,200
Speaker 1: if you want to talk to us, or if you're

1335
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:15,599
Speaker 1: not Clint and you just want to talk to us,

1336
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:17,920
Speaker 1: you can send us an email. That email address is

1337
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:21,719
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com. Uh. You probably

1338
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:26,680
Speaker 1: know where you are getting your podcasts, be that iTunes

1339
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:32,840
Speaker 1: or Stitcher or Stitcher Premium or Google anywhere else. If

1340
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:35,840
Speaker 1: you've just found us, please do subscribe and leave a

1341
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:40,400
Speaker 1: comment and a rating. We do appreciate those. If you

1342
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:44,519
Speaker 1: haven't already please do consider Stitcher Premium. You get the

1343
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:47,160
Speaker 1: episode early, you get it four days early, and add

1344
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:50,760
Speaker 1: free and also some bonus content. Uh so, go to

1345
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:54,200
Speaker 1: stitcher dot com slash Thinking sideways um and use the

1346
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 1: promo code sideways to um get that there's some deal

1347
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:01,799
Speaker 1: stuff going on. Sorry, this is not very helpful anyway.

1348
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:04,799
Speaker 1: If you want to see any of our linked research,

1349
01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:06,680
Speaker 1: you can do that on our website, where you can

1350
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:09,840
Speaker 1: also find the links to buy t shirts and an

1351
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:13,759
Speaker 1: episode list and all that stuff that is Thinking Sideways Podcast.

1352
01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:16,879
Speaker 1: At gmail dot com. You can find us on Facebook,

1353
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:18,960
Speaker 1: where we've got a page and a group. Like the page,

1354
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 1: joined the group, answer the questions it's yes and thursdays

1355
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:26,519
Speaker 1: super easy. You can find us on Twitter where we

1356
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:29,920
Speaker 1: are Thinking Sideways. You can find us on Instagram where

1357
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 1: we are Thinking Sideways podcast, and you can find us

1358
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:37,920
Speaker 1: on Reddit where our subreddit is our Thinking Sideways. All

1359
01:13:37,920 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 1: of that having been said, we're going to go ahead

1360
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:42,800
Speaker 1: and get on out here. We'll talk to you next week.

1361
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:51,920
Speaker 1: To everybody spring break, it's actually maybe it is. I've

1362
01:13:51,960 --> 01:14:00,200
Speaker 1: lost track of time. Okay, bye guys. Wh