Speaker 1: This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, your
Speaker 1: war room for incenter news and draft analysis from deep
Speaker 1: within the confines of Cowboys Headquarters at the Star in Fresco,
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys like d Lamb and now your hosts Dane Brugler,
Speaker 1: Jeff Kavanaugh, Kevin Turner and Kyle Yeomans on we are
Speaker 1: just fifty five days away from the NFL Draft as
Speaker 1: we continue on this long off season journey that is
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. It's a brand
Speaker 1: new Thursday edition. We're glad you're along with us here
Speaker 1: on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. Kyle Yeoman's alongside Dame Brugler,
Speaker 1: Jeff Cavanaugh, and the great Kevin kat Turner as always
Speaker 1: here on this Thursday. Guys were starting to get close.
Speaker 1: We talked about it on Tuesday with the other group
Speaker 1: of guys. But the combine now should be quote unquote
Speaker 1: in the rear view mirror. But there's still a lot
Speaker 1: of information gathering to be done because protas are on
Speaker 1: the horizon, Dane, and it continues to be an offseason
Speaker 1: and a draft process really unlike any other. Yeah, that continues.
Speaker 1: We had the combine list come out this week, which
Speaker 1: is interesting because it means not quite as much this
Speaker 1: year without having a combine. Now you know it'll mean
Speaker 1: something because you know, a you in terms of the medicals,
Speaker 1: that's that's something that will be funneled through the process
Speaker 1: and then you know, be it gives us a better
Speaker 1: idea of some of the players that are a lot
Speaker 1: of NFL teams are looking at and some of the
Speaker 1: players that maybe they're are not very high on. UM.
Speaker 1: And you know, we have around thirty uh non combine
Speaker 1: guys get drafted every year, and then it'll probably happen
Speaker 1: this year even though it is a little different. Um.
Speaker 1: But it's just it's just everything's unprecedented. And as we
Speaker 1: kind of work our way through, we got Pro days
Speaker 1: gonna be starting up here um next week, um, and
Speaker 1: those gonna run all the way through April, and you know,
Speaker 1: just talking to people around the league how it's gonna work,
Speaker 1: it's just it's really interesting. They're gonna kind of break
Speaker 1: it up in the regions. Um, and just with how
Speaker 1: the scouts are gonna travel to these pro days, just
Speaker 1: really interesting as they try to navigate through all this.
Speaker 1: So um, you know, we're still gonna get all the height, weight, speed,
Speaker 1: We're still gonna get all the agility numbers. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's it's gonna be weird because we're gonna be
Speaker 1: hearing a lot of numbers coming out of uh, you know,
Speaker 1: workout facilities too, and you know, it's some of them
Speaker 1: are probably are pretty close, some of them are probably bogus,
Speaker 1: and so you know, hopefully these guys choose to run
Speaker 1: at the pro day and don't just rely on what
Speaker 1: they are what they're doing at their facilities. So just
Speaker 1: a really really interesting part of this weird draft process. Jeff,
Speaker 1: how tough do you think it is to kind of
Speaker 1: balance those two because in the past, we've had kind
Speaker 1: of that easy comparison between these players and sometimes even
Speaker 1: getting to see them back to back and getting to
Speaker 1: see these different workouts, and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you don't have that and you have to go by region,
Speaker 1: you have to break it up across the country. And
Speaker 1: now it's tougher on these scouting departments to really kind
Speaker 1: of compare guys, especially whenever it comes to the same position. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think the only tough part is that it's
Speaker 1: not as standardized because it's not all at the same
Speaker 1: place on all the same things. And maybe if you're
Speaker 1: talking about electronics and lasers, teams are going to be
Speaker 1: comfortable with that anyway. But I've seen numbers that are
Speaker 1: coming out of these the workout facilities where guys are training,
Speaker 1: and I just kind of grant, like, everybody's super fast,
Speaker 1: everybody's incredible, and I'm just like, all right, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: we get handheld timers that are going real well for
Speaker 1: you guys. So yeah, I think it's I think the
Speaker 1: challenges that it's no longer going to be. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess like dating, it's still gonna be standardized, right, Like,
Speaker 1: they're not gonna be hand timing at the like look
Speaker 1: scouts will, But we're gonna get standardized numbers off of
Speaker 1: off of a lasers, aren't we. I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 1: because they're not gonna be able to do standardized you know,
Speaker 1: lasers at every single pro day. It's just not feasible.
Speaker 1: And so for just continuity purposes, are they going to
Speaker 1: do hand times? Probably? I mean a lot of teams
Speaker 1: they use hand times anyways, even with the combine, they'll
Speaker 1: you know, just and they do that so they can
Speaker 1: have apples to apples comparisons with how they time at
Speaker 1: pro days. So h you know, I don't, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't feel really, I'm not really confident that we're
Speaker 1: gonna have, you know, the standardized part of the process. Katy,
Speaker 1: Do you think it's more of a Trust the Tape
Speaker 1: type of year than any that we've seen so far. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean my friends Dane and Jeff used to do
Speaker 1: a podcast it was very popular called Trust the Tape.
Speaker 1: And there's a guy Why I asked you that question. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like there's a reason that podcast wasn't called Trust the
Speaker 1: Pro Day or Trust the Calm Dine or Trust his
Speaker 1: names were taken. Those were all taken. Trust the milk
Speaker 1: in my fridge after the expiration day. There's a reason
Speaker 1: they didn't entitle it. That's it's Trust the Tape. I
Speaker 1: think the biggest challenge comes to your holdouts more than
Speaker 1: I know. These numbers are important and things like that,
Speaker 1: but I think when we start talking about people who
Speaker 1: didn't play in twenty twenty, how are you convinced that
Speaker 1: nothing changed from who they were in twenty nineteen. Hey,
Speaker 1: that's what the challenge is. And also I think my
Speaker 1: questions you see all these things like, um, okay, this
Speaker 1: prospect as he's got a zoom meeting with the Colts
Speaker 1: and the Jaguars or whatever. It's like these play get
Speaker 1: knocked if the if the players you can't really hear
Speaker 1: them very well on their zoom, like they have a
Speaker 1: bad zoom set up. Are you knocked in the prospect
Speaker 1: because I think if you have a lot of patience
Speaker 1: for that, if you Wi Fi can't pick him. What's
Speaker 1: that poster on his wall behind him? Oh yeah, cross
Speaker 1: him up the list. He's out. Yeah no, but he
Speaker 1: didn't wear a suit to the to the zoom interview.
Speaker 1: It's not going to happen. Um. With all of this
Speaker 1: being said, though, I mean, there's so many different factors
Speaker 1: that go into it anyways, and I feel like we've
Speaker 1: always talked about it on this show previously. But it's
Speaker 1: all going to verify what you've seen on tape. It's
Speaker 1: all going to kind of supplement what you have on tape.
Speaker 1: So nobody's ever going to, like, like KG just said,
Speaker 1: trust the combine and trust the protas and things of
Speaker 1: the sort. So that's the positive thing about it all.
Speaker 1: And even with the opt outs, it'll be tougher, but
Speaker 1: these the studying is still going on. But Dane, you
Speaker 1: brought up a really fun thing in our in our
Speaker 1: group message throughout the weekend. I kind of want to
Speaker 1: hit this in the first segment, and then in the
Speaker 1: third segment we're gonna hit some offensive lineman because offensive
Speaker 1: line is kind of an undersung position in this class,
Speaker 1: and I think we definitely need to talk about it,
Speaker 1: especially if you're the Cowboys with an offensive tackle. And
Speaker 1: maybe some later rounds to try ensure up some depth.
Speaker 1: But I want to talk about a roundtable segment that
Speaker 1: you had an idea of, and it has to do
Speaker 1: with three different things. It's the favorite player in the
Speaker 1: class of study, prospect evaluation in this class that gives
Speaker 1: the most trouble to everybody, and then your favorite player
Speaker 1: comp And I think this will be fun because I
Speaker 1: know all of these are different. But Dan, since you
Speaker 1: came up with the idea, I'll let you go first,
Speaker 1: and then I'll go with Kat next, and then I'll
Speaker 1: round it out after Jeff. But who is your favorite
Speaker 1: player in this class to study? So far? It's hard
Speaker 1: to name just one. I think Zach Wilson. I've been
Speaker 1: a big Zach Wilson fan since the fall. Just his
Speaker 1: ability off platform to make those spontaneous decisions and to
Speaker 1: be naturally accurate on the move. It's just it's so impressive,
Speaker 1: makes things happen. So Zach Wilson would definitely qualify Kyle Pitts.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know that I could have an answer,
Speaker 1: you know, for this and not mentioned Kyle Pitts with
Speaker 1: just he's he's a cheek coat. You know. It's just
Speaker 1: watching him make plays over defensive backs, watching him separate,
Speaker 1: watching him just you know, be a boss out there,
Speaker 1: is just it's just a lot of fun. So those
Speaker 1: two guys immediately come to mind. Just talking about my
Speaker 1: favorite guys the study so far this year. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think just to throw out some different names because
Speaker 1: those are definitely fun guys. Obviously, Coromla from Notre Dame
Speaker 1: is a lot of fun, just the way he flies around.
Speaker 1: I want to just have a little fun. I want
Speaker 1: to throw a running back in there, like Kenneth Gainwell
Speaker 1: of Memphis was a lot of fun and just a
Speaker 1: number of ways he was used, especially on the rare
Speaker 1: occasion that they would line him out if the X
Speaker 1: wide receiver and throwing the ball, but like get little
Speaker 1: things like oh, here's a wheel route. It was just
Speaker 1: the way they used him a lot. Was fun to
Speaker 1: watch it. And another one, I'll say, I'm just going
Speaker 1: to the offensive line. I'm a big Deontay Brown fan.
Speaker 1: Offensive guard, Like, if you wanna talk about just snapping
Speaker 1: the ball and then beating the crap out of the
Speaker 1: guy in front of you, I kind of like the
Speaker 1: way Deontay Brown rolls, like I kind of want him
Speaker 1: in my posse, to be honest, Like, have you ever
Speaker 1: called them all three hundred and sixty five pounds of him? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think he's a good guy to have on your side.
Speaker 1: Let's just put it that way. So I'm a big
Speaker 1: Deontae Brown fan. He watched his film was a lot
Speaker 1: of fun. Deef Our Darius Washington, sweet sweet art Darius
Speaker 1: Washington the best safety in this draft class. Who's gonna
Speaker 1: get picked? Who knows? Where? Is he gonna be picked
Speaker 1: in the fourth round even though he's the best because
Speaker 1: he's five foot eight, I think that's possible. And then
Speaker 1: my other guy would be Divine Diablo because he's got
Speaker 1: the best name in the class and he talks about
Speaker 1: him but he's good on tape. He's just a two
Speaker 1: hundred and almost thirty pounds safety, so I think that
Speaker 1: throws people off, but I think he's a He's a
Speaker 1: really good player, whether he's going to be a linebacker
Speaker 1: or a safety at the next level. So I'm going
Speaker 1: to safeties Sweet Sweet or Darius Washington aka Safety one
Speaker 1: and Divine Diablo da quickly before we move on. I
Speaker 1: want to hear your thoughts on Divine Diablo as well,
Speaker 1: because I liked him going into the Senior Bowl. He
Speaker 1: was one of my players to watch. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: he's a good player. I think he's probably early Day
Speaker 1: three guy for me in terms of just where I
Speaker 1: see him. He is a little bit of a tweener,
Speaker 1: you know, a linebacker safety, But yeah, he runs well.
Speaker 1: He's a former wide receiver. That's that's what he was
Speaker 1: when he arrived at Blacksburg, So you see that at
Speaker 1: times with his ability to play the ball. I just
Speaker 1: I don't know that he is enough juice to hold
Speaker 1: up in man coverage or even to make plays on
Speaker 1: you know, passing lanes and own so I don't I'm
Speaker 1: not one hundred percent sure what I'm doing with him. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, on base defense. But I think he's gonna
Speaker 1: survive on special teams and think he's just a really
Speaker 1: quality player that can round up my roster. I'm just
Speaker 1: not sure what's his ceiling for me. So that's why
Speaker 1: I have more of an early fourth, fifth, sixth somewhere
Speaker 1: early day three on him. So I've got a really
Speaker 1: easy answer for my favorite player to watch, And it
Speaker 1: was just because a lot of people maybe forgot just
Speaker 1: how dominant he was because twenty opt out. No, it
Speaker 1: wasn't Jaylen Darden. I'm not gonna say that, I promise
Speaker 1: I thought about saying it. Jamar Chase Lsu. How about
Speaker 1: that wide receiver. I mean, the fact that he was
Speaker 1: able to dominate NFL caliber corners the way that he
Speaker 1: was as a redshirt sophomore just was unbelievable to me.
Speaker 1: And then I was really sad when he opted out,
Speaker 1: because I mean it allowed guys like Davante Smith and
Speaker 1: Jalen Waddle to kind of take over. I mean, even
Speaker 1: like another opt out in Rashi Bateman who came back
Speaker 1: and then opted out again. I mean, they were the
Speaker 1: ones that kind of took over college football. But I
Speaker 1: think the year that jamar Ches would have had for
Speaker 1: LSU would have been comparable to any of those, even
Speaker 1: without Joe Burrow at quarterback, because I think he's just
Speaker 1: a fantastic player overall, so I think he would probably
Speaker 1: be my favorite. Now reversing the order a little bit here, Jeff,
Speaker 1: who was the toughest player for you to tab this
Speaker 1: year in the draft class? Oh, that is a great question.
Speaker 1: Some of us don't prep as well for these segments
Speaker 1: as others. So I'm currently looking at my list of players.
Speaker 1: Toughest guy andre Cisco, Syracuse safety, Okay, because I know
Speaker 1: there's people that like him, and I know that in
Speaker 1: theory he's hyper athletic, and I know that he had
Speaker 1: a ton of interceptions. But then I watched his tape
Speaker 1: and I don't think I've seen a safety give up
Speaker 1: more big plays than andre Cisco. So I don't know,
Speaker 1: is somebody going to pick him in the top fifty
Speaker 1: because he's an athletic guy with a history of creating turnovers?
Speaker 1: Or do you just say, guys, I don't want him
Speaker 1: because the number of and this is run plays, pass
Speaker 1: plays underneath deep like andre Cisco's tape. I just kept typing,
Speaker 1: You're the last line of defense. What are you doing?
Speaker 1: So I'll say, Andre Cisco, who I'm trusting the tape
Speaker 1: and i put him in the fourth or fifth round,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure he's going to go higher than that,
Speaker 1: but it happens. Plus he's coming off the acl which
Speaker 1: is another you know, obviously that doesn't that's not as
Speaker 1: damning as you know, maybe fifteen years ago, but still
Speaker 1: every every knee responds differently. So just something else that
Speaker 1: is important for Cisco's evaluation. I mean, I think you
Speaker 1: you got him nailed. I think just in terms of, yeah,
Speaker 1: he'll he'll make big plays, but he gets up big plays,
Speaker 1: and so I think that's more of a style thing,
Speaker 1: more of a preference, you know, And what do you want?
Speaker 1: You know, what are you looking for in your safety?
Speaker 1: A guy that is a little feast or famine, or
Speaker 1: you want a more conservative player. You know, I was
Speaker 1: watching a guy last night, Kayden Stearns, the Texas safety
Speaker 1: that he's the exact opposite. He does not make a
Speaker 1: lot of big plays, but he also doesn't give up
Speaker 1: a ton of big plays either, because he's just so conservative.
Speaker 1: And it's just you know, I don't I don't know
Speaker 1: that that's my style either as a safety. So it's
Speaker 1: just an interesting juxtaposition between those two guys. Tats. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean for me, there's there's quite a few names,
Speaker 1: but one I would only want to throw out is
Speaker 1: Bobby Brown, the defensive vineman from Texas A and M.
Speaker 1: Because you know, you're watching it and when you see
Speaker 1: the flashes, you go wow, and then you go why
Speaker 1: doesn't that happen more often? And there are plays when,
Speaker 1: quite frankly, it just looks like he's not trying hard.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if that's the case. Maybe he's tired,
Speaker 1: maybe he was banged up, those types of things. But
Speaker 1: Bobby Brown was a very up and down evaluation for me.
Speaker 1: And when you're talking about putting a guy in your
Speaker 1: top one hundred or or you know, maybe trying to
Speaker 1: get this guy to be a Day two pick, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure Bobby Brown was consistent enough for me
Speaker 1: to take him on, you know, the third round. So
Speaker 1: I mean, that's there's a there's a lot there to like.
Speaker 1: I would definitely consider him in that third or fourth
Speaker 1: round range. But Bobby Brown was an evaluate It was
Speaker 1: a frustrating watch. I guess I'll put it was very
Speaker 1: up and down. Dang. Uh So I've got a few
Speaker 1: Um that's uh. I mean for those young evaluators out there,
Speaker 1: I mean, let this segment kind of be a lesson.
Speaker 1: You know, don't get discourage when you watch a player
Speaker 1: and you're just like, I don't know what to do
Speaker 1: with him, because it's okay. That happens a lot. Um.
Speaker 1: Some guys are just confusing and it's just gonna take
Speaker 1: a lot more work and homework to figure him out.
Speaker 1: Like for me, Anthony Schwartz, is that guy from Auburn, UM.
Speaker 1: This is one of the fastest humans in this country. Um.
Speaker 1: He in high school you ran a ten point zero
Speaker 1: seven in one hundred meters, Jeff? Is that fast? I
Speaker 1: mean yeah, you would think he would be on pace
Speaker 1: to be running in the Olympics in a year or two.
Speaker 1: That was his goal. I mean he ran at Auburn, UM.
Speaker 1: You know, he he was a two sport athlete at Auburn.
Speaker 1: He set a few sec records. I think he was
Speaker 1: sixty five nine in the sixty meters. Um. I mean,
Speaker 1: the guy can fly, there's just no doubt about it.
Speaker 1: But just real quick Dane. Like when you see high
Speaker 1: school guys, and they're talking about the fastest guys in
Speaker 1: the country in football. You're gonna see like ten four,
Speaker 1: ten five. Yeah, that's that's blazing. That flying ten o
Speaker 1: seven is stupid. It's it's ridiculous. Uh uh. He won
Speaker 1: the silver medal and the hundred meters at the World
Speaker 1: Championships as a senior in high school in Finland. Um
Speaker 1: and just I mean, this guy is just ridiculous. Uh
Speaker 1: and uh, just that. And it translates to the football field,
Speaker 1: but it translates speed wise, but not big play wise. Um.
Speaker 1: And so a guy with that type of speed, you
Speaker 1: would expect all these these big plays, either on as
Speaker 1: a return man or you know, the just underneath plays
Speaker 1: that he's able to stretch out a stride and you know,
Speaker 1: take eighty yards or just winning deep. But looking at
Speaker 1: his as his film, it was just a lot of
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of feast or famine. I mean
Speaker 1: he was looking at I just blame well And that's
Speaker 1: exactly that's part of it. That's part of it too.
Speaker 1: So you know, looking at his his his tape of
Speaker 1: his one hundred and seventeen catches, only nine point four
Speaker 1: percent of them resulted in a play twenty five yards
Speaker 1: or more. I mean, that's just that's not the that's
Speaker 1: not the percentage the odds that you want to see
Speaker 1: from a player at this type of speed. But yes,
Speaker 1: you factor in he's a young player who uh you know,
Speaker 1: was also a track athlete at Auburn. So in the offseason,
Speaker 1: he's not training for football, he's not working out with football,
Speaker 1: he's training with track and obviously two different sports with
Speaker 1: two different uh you know, conditioning process and in preparation. Um,
Speaker 1: now that he's football only, is Zach going to be
Speaker 1: able to improve? You know, what's his ceiling on the
Speaker 1: football field. It's it's a really interesting evaluation because there's
Speaker 1: a lot of projection there. Where do you feel comfortable
Speaker 1: drafting him? And then a guy on the defensive side
Speaker 1: of the ball, Chris Rump at a duke, really really
Speaker 1: interesting because he didn't start playing. His dad, longtime college
Speaker 1: in NFL defensive coach, defensive coach at defensive coordinator at Florida,
Speaker 1: now is in the NFL with the Bears, is their
Speaker 1: defensive line coach. Really extensive background in coaching at a
Speaker 1: high level, but he didn't let his son, Chris Rump
Speaker 1: the second, he didn't allow him to play football until
Speaker 1: high school, and so he was one hundred and seventy
Speaker 1: pound junior in high school and so just way behind
Speaker 1: in terms of his body in terms of just football development.
Speaker 1: Goes to Duke and the last two years this guy
Speaker 1: was was hard to lock U thirty four total passes
Speaker 1: or tackles for a loss, But I don't know what
Speaker 1: to do with them because he's undersized and he's a
Speaker 1: liability in the run game. Once blockers get their hands
Speaker 1: on him, they can shut him down fairly easily. So
Speaker 1: where are you playing him? Is he a sub package guy?
Speaker 1: Or can can you get something out of him as
Speaker 1: an off ball player in early downs? I'm just trying
Speaker 1: to figure out his exact role is really tough. I
Speaker 1: think you know, we talk about, um, you know, gadget
Speaker 1: players on offense. You know, we don't talk enough about
Speaker 1: gadget players on defense. You know we don't. We don't
Speaker 1: use that term for defenders. To me, Rough is a
Speaker 1: gadget player. You know. However you want to use him,
Speaker 1: I think there's definitely value there. You just have to
Speaker 1: figure out the right role, the right way to deploy him,
Speaker 1: because I mean, he has speed. Um, you know, he's
Speaker 1: got a knack for finding the crease and you know,
Speaker 1: creating havoc in the backfield. Just it's a lot of
Speaker 1: fun to watch. But trying to nail down his exact
Speaker 1: project action at the next levels a little bit of
Speaker 1: a challenge. I like it real quickly. I'm going to
Speaker 1: get my back to back starting with the comp player,
Speaker 1: or excuse me, starting with my toughest to evaluate, and
Speaker 1: that's Jason Away, edge rusher out of Penn State. And
Speaker 1: the reason why is because I want to love the
Speaker 1: traits and I do, and I want to love the film,
Speaker 1: and I try and talk myself into loving the film.
Speaker 1: But he also didn't have a sack at all this
Speaker 1: past season, and I know there wasn't necessarily a whole
Speaker 1: lot to work with on that Penn State defense. They
Speaker 1: really struggled on that side of the football this year
Speaker 1: without Michael Parsons back there, without some of the other
Speaker 1: guys that like a geter, grossmatos and players that had
Speaker 1: left previously. But he has every single bit of the
Speaker 1: tools available to potentially make it and be successful in
Speaker 1: the NFL. I've still tapped him as one of my
Speaker 1: top edge rushers, but it was still kind of tough
Speaker 1: for me to really look at it and say, I
Speaker 1: think he's going to get to the quarterback in the
Speaker 1: NFL whenever he didn't have a single sack in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: My favorite comp other than Dane Brugler's comp of Carlos
Speaker 1: Basham junior where he comped him to Marcus Davenport earlier
Speaker 1: in the year. I love that comp Dane, by the way,
Speaker 1: so props to you on that one. I tweeted this
Speaker 1: out though, Quincy Roche edge rusher out of Miami. I
Speaker 1: compared him to Bradley and I, and I think Roche's
Speaker 1: way better than and I, But I also I think
Speaker 1: they win in certain ways. They were both uber productive
Speaker 1: during their collegiate ten years, and then all of a sudden, Roche,
Speaker 1: whenever Gregory Rousseau opted out, had a bigger opportunity to
Speaker 1: be productive, and he ended up having a huge sack year.
Speaker 1: And he wins with short arms and not a ton
Speaker 1: of speed, which is exactly what I had written down
Speaker 1: for Bradley and I last year. And so I compared
Speaker 1: those two guys together once again, I think Roche is
Speaker 1: just a better player overall. More polished than and I was.
Speaker 1: And with that being said, he's still one of my
Speaker 1: top eight edge rochers as well. Dane. Yeah, it's Roche
Speaker 1: is interesting. He's he's tough to stack in this class
Speaker 1: because there's so many any talented rushers in that you know,
Speaker 1: rounds two to four range. Um, you know, he's he's
Speaker 1: log jammed in there with guys like Rashad Weaver and
Speaker 1: Peyton Turner and Patrick Jones. Um. Yeah, so it's tough
Speaker 1: to stack him. Um. I don't like him as much
Speaker 1: as you do. But he did I thought he did.
Speaker 1: He helped himself with the Senior Bowl. He he played,
Speaker 1: showed a little more juice live than I saw on tape,
Speaker 1: which is good to see. But I mean another guy
Speaker 1: you mentioned Oway not much production. Um, you know, uh Rochet,
Speaker 1: he didn't have a ton of stack production as a
Speaker 1: as a senior at Miami. Um. So it's you know,
Speaker 1: he could be a little bit difficult too. Who is
Speaker 1: your favorite cop, Dame? Um, so I've got a few
Speaker 1: of them. I really like the Travon Merrick to Jesse
Speaker 1: Bates um comparison, because you're talking about guy's tall, linear,
Speaker 1: a little a little leaner, than you want, and that'll
Speaker 1: show in the run game. But guys that are proven
Speaker 1: ballhawks or you know, they got range, they know how
Speaker 1: to make plays on the ball, you know they're probably
Speaker 1: not gonna be first rounders. I mean, maybe Mary gets
Speaker 1: in the first round, but I think probably more early
Speaker 1: second you know, kind of like Jesse Bates for for
Speaker 1: a lot of the same reasons. And then a linebacker
Speaker 1: Jamie and Davis at a Kentucky who's a Day two
Speaker 1: player in this draft. He is a carbon copy, a
Speaker 1: clone of Zach Cunningham, who at a Vanderbilt went to
Speaker 1: the Texans. I just think they're the exact same player
Speaker 1: that it was. It just hit me over the head
Speaker 1: watching Davis's tape how how similar they were. So those
Speaker 1: two really stood out as easy comps for me, Katy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for me, I'm gonna go a little off the beaten
Speaker 1: path here. When I watched Notre Dame tight end Tommy Trimble,
Speaker 1: I was kind of getting Joe Daguarra vibes, if you remember,
Speaker 1: from Cincinnati, kind of lined up everywhere. You can line
Speaker 1: him out at ax you could play him as the
Speaker 1: h back, and I know you can do it with
Speaker 1: a lot of tight ends, but just kind of the
Speaker 1: way they moved and the way they played. I kind
Speaker 1: of kind of had that as my my cops that
Speaker 1: I that I liked. Um, Tommy Trimble and Joseph Daguira,
Speaker 1: I think went went the third round and then he
Speaker 1: tore his acl um. You know, I think I always
Speaker 1: get uncomfortable with comps with quarterbacks because there's so much
Speaker 1: going on at the quarterback level that I'm I'm really
Speaker 1: really uncomfortable doing that. Um, So I don't know, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna stay away from the quarterbacks. One guy, and I
Speaker 1: do not like his tape really at all from this year,
Speaker 1: I mean, his most recent tape. But I do see
Speaker 1: the running style. When I watched Cuba Hubbard, I see
Speaker 1: that kind of upright style that Darren McFadden had. Now
Speaker 1: way different obviously, H McFadden All American first round pick
Speaker 1: Chuba Hoverard. You know, I don't think it's crazy to
Speaker 1: say that he might not get drafted, but I think
Speaker 1: he probably goes in the fifth, sixth, seventh round something
Speaker 1: like that. But when I watched it, I typed that
Speaker 1: on my note right there, like, hey, it's kind of
Speaker 1: like that mcfaddened style. But there's a lot going on
Speaker 1: with Cuba Hoverard. When I watched him, I was not impressed.
Speaker 1: Jeff oh or Darius Washington honey Badger. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I have to say it over and over again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my five eighth safety, he's honey badger and that's awesome,
Speaker 1: And the other one is a bad comp I'm gonna
Speaker 1: throw that out before I give you the comp just
Speaker 1: because the size is so much different. But ken Darius Tony,
Speaker 1: the Florida wide receiver, his tape reminds me of when
Speaker 1: I was ten years old or however old, I was
Speaker 1: watching Dante Hall with the Kansas City Chiefs, because it's
Speaker 1: like three people will run into each other or run
Speaker 1: into him, and somehow he's still going and they're all
Speaker 1: on the ground. Just the change of direction and the
Speaker 1: contact balance and how in the hell did he squirt
Speaker 1: out of that? So Canarius Tony reminds me of every
Speaker 1: great punt returner ever, and he does it while he's
Speaker 1: playing wide receiver or taking handoffs. But yes, Ardarius Washington
Speaker 1: TCU safety, honey badger. Do you I thought you were
Speaker 1: comparing Kadarius Tony to yourself at ten years old? That's
Speaker 1: what I thought it was. I will tell at ten,
Speaker 1: At ten, I had wiggle. I was ahead athletically at ten.
Speaker 1: It was at about fifteen that people caught up. Should
Speaker 1: you also want a rapping career like Kadarius Tony? And
Speaker 1: I would like it? Yeah, that'd be great. I could
Speaker 1: go country music or rap. I would go either one,
Speaker 1: but I'll take it. I mean, if anybody out there's offering,
Speaker 1: I need to update my report on Tony to change
Speaker 1: my compform. It's a ten year old Jeff Kavanaugh. Yes,
Speaker 1: I like it. I think that'd be fun. Jeff. I
Speaker 1: think you're you're witty and like quick witted enough to
Speaker 1: be a like a freestyle rapper. Like if you had
Speaker 1: to sit down and write it, I don't know if
Speaker 1: you could do it, but I think if you're sitting
Speaker 1: there and just rattling it off the top of your head,
Speaker 1: I think you could get it done. I thought so too, Kyle,
Speaker 1: And then I tried. You tried? How did that? It
Speaker 1: didn't go? Well? Not? Well, that's unfortunate. Well, I like
Speaker 1: your comp of Kadarius Tony. I had him with Percy Harvin.
Speaker 1: That was who I had him tabbed as kind of
Speaker 1: once again, another nice returner, somebody that is lightning quick
Speaker 1: and shifty. So plenty of comps to go around, and
Speaker 1: of course that's one of the fun parts about the draft,
Speaker 1: is trying to look for those comps. And we just
Speaker 1: gave a couple of our favorites. We might do this again, Dane,
Speaker 1: I think we should do this again, maybe when we
Speaker 1: get real close to the draft and kind of go
Speaker 1: up and talk about it again, kind of our favorites,
Speaker 1: our hardest since then, and maybe even our comps since
Speaker 1: then as well. But when we come back here on
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft show, time for some
Speaker 1: twitter on the twenty we'll do it right after the break.
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Speaker 1: Cowboys dot Com Draft Show? Entering segment numbered here the
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Glad you're with us,
Speaker 1: Chris being back in studio. We've got Dan Brugler, Kevin
Speaker 1: kat Turner, the great Jeff Kavanam, Kyle Yeoman's time now
Speaker 1: for some twitter on the twenty as always, Like I said,
Speaker 1: Beemer doing work in the back at the SWBC Mortgage studios.
Speaker 1: All right, starting things off with a very quick rapid
Speaker 1: fire question for you, and I'm going to direct this
Speaker 1: toward Dane Brugler. Jason Bruitt asked yearly question that has
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty one weirdness kind of added to it.
Speaker 1: But even though there wasn't a traditional combine this year,
Speaker 1: of course that being snubbed and moved to pro days.
Speaker 1: Who do you see as some of the snubs and
Speaker 1: surprises from the list that came out of the quote
Speaker 1: unquote combine invites Dane. Yeah, there were three hundred and
Speaker 1: twenty three names on the list that they released yesterday.
Speaker 1: A few of the guys that I thought were it
Speaker 1: was a little surprising they were left off. Running back
Speaker 1: Spencer Brown from UAB is a good player, UM. A
Speaker 1: couple of wide receivers like Marlon Williams from UCF, Demonte
Speaker 1: Coxey Memphis. A couple of Senior Bowl guys bowling green
Speaker 1: tight end Quentin Morris, uh Riley Cole the lineback from
Speaker 1: South Alabama. UM, Terek Thompson, the safety at a San
Speaker 1: Dieo State. So there were a few. I don't I
Speaker 1: didn't think any were you know, necessarily egregious. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: the names I just mentioned are borderline draft picks. So uh,
Speaker 1: you know, not a not a huge surprise, but you know,
Speaker 1: I thought it's it's always interesting when you know, you
Speaker 1: get to get the combined list and some of the
Speaker 1: players that are left off, and you know it's because
Speaker 1: it just you know, peak behind the curtain. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: the National NFS they put this combine on terms and
Speaker 1: they they vote on, you know, which players they want
Speaker 1: to see, and you know, obviously teams have their input.
Speaker 1: So just it's interesting to see which players got the
Speaker 1: most votes to be represented at the combine. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: I mean even in a year like this, to be
Speaker 1: snooped from the combine. I feel like it's not necessarily
Speaker 1: it's not as big of a deal. And like you
Speaker 1: said in the first segment, there's usually thirty or forty
Speaker 1: guys or in between that mix that end up going
Speaker 1: and getting drafted that did not end up at the combine,
Speaker 1: and some a little bit higher than others. Let's go
Speaker 1: to Jeff already answered this question on Twitter, but I
Speaker 1: want to answer it on the show as well. But
Speaker 1: Tom Downey asked what prospect do you not want the
Speaker 1: Cowboys to draft at ten out of the ones that
Speaker 1: are realistic for the Cowboys to draft at ten? And
Speaker 1: he did say, Jeff Cavanall, you're not allowed to say
Speaker 1: Gregory Rousseau because we knew that would probably be the answer.
Speaker 1: But Jeff, who else would you not want the Cowboys
Speaker 1: to select the ten Oh, that is a really good question.
Speaker 1: Tempted to say Micah Parsons, but I'm going to say
Speaker 1: any edge rusher. I just don't think there's one eligible
Speaker 1: to me to be picked at ten, and as zaz
Speaker 1: Asulari is my top one out of Georgia U, I
Speaker 1: don't think there's a pass rusher worth the tenth pick.
Speaker 1: I think it's a good answer because I mean what,
Speaker 1: I'm not even sure what the other answer would be,
Speaker 1: because for me at least, I mean I would be fine,
Speaker 1: even though I wouldn't be my preference. I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: mad if they drafted Jalen Waddle. Um, you know, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't be mad if they drafted Kyle Pitts. Wouldn't be mad. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know if they drafted um, you know, any any
Speaker 1: of these top linebackers later. Yeah, I mean you don't
Speaker 1: you it might not be your first choice. You might
Speaker 1: not love it, but I don't. I wouldn't. It wouldn't
Speaker 1: be like upset about it. So yeah, I think that's
Speaker 1: a good answer. Any of the edge rushers, maybe Christian Barbore,
Speaker 1: I think that's a little early for him. Um yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't. Maybe you know, I like j C. Horn,
Speaker 1: but even ten feel a little early for him. But
Speaker 1: I still wouldn't be like, you know, let's be up
Speaker 1: in arms about it. So yeah, that's I think any
Speaker 1: any any of the EDG dresser is probably a little
Speaker 1: too early for them at that tenth pick. And I
Speaker 1: want to weigh in, like if where they're at a
Speaker 1: ten if for now and it's maybe a bad assumption.
Speaker 1: But if you can assume that four quarterbacks are going
Speaker 1: in front of you at ten, or just for the
Speaker 1: sake of this discussion, let's say that, then we know
Speaker 1: that we have six players coming down down your way.
Speaker 1: If five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, right, stack that
Speaker 1: board up, and if you really want to focus on defense,
Speaker 1: then maybe you can move things around. But like, stack
Speaker 1: that board up, you can easily know who you want
Speaker 1: and you will have every scenario lined up. You need
Speaker 1: six picks that you have to deal with right here,
Speaker 1: six players, and you should have one, two, three, four
Speaker 1: scenarios lined up. I think where I think where the
Speaker 1: discussion gets interesting is if you trade back, and that's
Speaker 1: where you start pitting Osilary against jac Horneum or dres
Speaker 1: against you know, maybe it's Derris against yeah against Barmore
Speaker 1: or Vara Tucker or however you want to play it.
Speaker 1: If you're thinking offensive line there, like if there's a
Speaker 1: trade back and you're in that seventeen to twenty region,
Speaker 1: that's where I think it gets a little more difficult.
Speaker 1: I actually think it's pretty simple to draft someone you
Speaker 1: like at ten when you know that three or four
Speaker 1: quarterbacks have been going in front of you. I really
Speaker 1: don't think you can go wrong there if you've done
Speaker 1: your work and you have it stacked the way that
Speaker 1: you want to want to go. And I'm saying the problem, well,
Speaker 1: I'm saying that in terms of picking the guy you want, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say the only problem with that is when
Speaker 1: you said stack up your next six guys. I think
Speaker 1: my next six guys play offense, and I think that
Speaker 1: that's not ideal for the Cowboys because to me, the
Speaker 1: best six guys would be some combination of Pena Suel,
Speaker 1: Rashaan Slater, Kyle Pitts, Jamar Chase, Jalen Waddle, Davante Smith.
Speaker 1: So four quarterbacks go. I think the six next best
Speaker 1: players all play offense, well, at least maybe seven and
Speaker 1: eight might be Defensean Farley and certain might be there
Speaker 1: maybe if that, If that's where you have him ranked,
Speaker 1: my easy answer to this question would be Mac Jones.
Speaker 1: Please don't ever talk to me about drafting Mac Jones
Speaker 1: at ten, even if he is the only quarterback available
Speaker 1: at that point. You haven't signed Dak Prescott because I feel,
Speaker 1: like Katie, you're talking about all these big scenarios. But
Speaker 1: even with the scenarios that are outside of the draft itself,
Speaker 1: in Dak Prescott's contract negotiations and everything that's going on there.
Speaker 1: If mac Jones is the presumed pick at ten, I
Speaker 1: would be lived. I would hate that. It'd be better
Speaker 1: than not picking a quarterback if you haven't signed your
Speaker 1: quarterbaw no, no, I don't want it. I don't want
Speaker 1: it to drift. I would rather drift. I would kick
Speaker 1: that can down the road before I would I would
Speaker 1: draft mac Jones. You know that down the road is
Speaker 1: like the next draft having Keaton Slovis and who knows
Speaker 1: what else. We'll figure it out. There's a lot of quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: Quarterback now I'm just saying, I'm just saying quarterback. I'm
Speaker 1: saying I'm saying we will figure it out rather than
Speaker 1: having mac Jones. Because I don't want mac Jones at
Speaker 1: like really at all. That's my one thing. But I
Speaker 1: could be wrong. I've been wrong before. I'm going out
Speaker 1: on a limb to say that I think mac Jones
Speaker 1: would be a terrible pick of ten. But kind of
Speaker 1: I want to go back to what Kat was just
Speaker 1: saying because it is intriguing to me because last year,
Speaker 1: when we were picking at seventeen, there were conversations about
Speaker 1: pretty much anybody, and we thought, of course Ceedee Lamb
Speaker 1: wasn't even a part of that conversation, and he was
Speaker 1: the one that fell. I think this could be a
Speaker 1: whole segment in itself, and we may do this next week.
Speaker 1: But if we do trade down, or if the Cowboys
Speaker 1: do trade down, then what is the what are the scenarios?
Speaker 1: What are those different players, like you said, stacking up
Speaker 1: a horn versus in Ozolari and talking about these different
Speaker 1: prospects that aren't top ten prospects but are still really
Speaker 1: good players. And what would you get in return for
Speaker 1: maybe the second in the third round to kind of
Speaker 1: add onto your draft. I think that might be a
Speaker 1: fun segment we do next week. Overall, Kat, I like
Speaker 1: your heads out in that regard, looking for my page refreshed.
Speaker 1: This is bad radio looking. I do that every day, brother,
Speaker 1: I know it's the worst hours of it. Yeah. Adam
Speaker 1: asked what or what prospects get under opponent's skin the
Speaker 1: best in this draft class because he wants Dallas to
Speaker 1: end up with some dogs, some guys who can trash talk,
Speaker 1: bring some personality, honey badger like intensity, who are some
Speaker 1: guys that could potentially bring that. Kelvin Joseph the Kentucky
Speaker 1: corner and Jac Horn South Carolina corner. Those are the
Speaker 1: two guys that they don't stop. It's fun because when
Speaker 1: you can see that on tape, you just get to
Speaker 1: imagine what's happening. But those are the two guys by
Speaker 1: far that jump out as they're gonna talk to you.
Speaker 1: They're gonna play hard, they're gonna make you mad, and
Speaker 1: then they're gonna tell you they made you mad, and
Speaker 1: then they're gonna make a play, and then they're gonna
Speaker 1: tell you they made a play. Yeah, Jac Horn, Kelvin Joseph.
Speaker 1: But the one thing that I'd worried about with Horn
Speaker 1: is how much is a good the other way? How
Speaker 1: much is uh you know for how easy is it
Speaker 1: for receivers to get underneath his skin? Um? You know,
Speaker 1: because he does play so emotional and so aggressive and
Speaker 1: that that is a that is a tough one. Oh.
Speaker 1: I got Gil Brent calling Meoul. Should I answer that
Speaker 1: and put him on? Yes? Yes, no, hold on all rightly? Um,
Speaker 1: you know he's he's a missed opportunity for the show
Speaker 1: right there. I wouldn't do that to Gil, but he
Speaker 1: uh not not the Godfather, come on. Um. So with
Speaker 1: JC Horn he plays still emotional. That does worry me
Speaker 1: both ways because yeah, he will get after it, he
Speaker 1: will talk. He's not as flashy as his dad, you know,
Speaker 1: Joe Horn, but he's still you know, you could see
Speaker 1: that alpha mentality in him. But I also think it
Speaker 1: goes the other way too, where when the receiver might
Speaker 1: might have a few wins against him, it starts to
Speaker 1: go south a little bit. And so, uh, you know
Speaker 1: when you see that in on some of these tapes
Speaker 1: where some of the receivers they'll go right at them
Speaker 1: because they try to get under a skin early, try
Speaker 1: to kind of set the precedent early in that game.
Speaker 1: So it just horns an interesting one when you talk about, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, wearing his emotions on his sleeves and being aggressive.
Speaker 1: I would to point out something that I'm not sure
Speaker 1: we've talked about on this show, Like we all will
Speaker 1: talked about how, hey, Jacy Horns a little grabby down
Speaker 1: the field sometimes right things like that, So is Patrick
Speaker 1: Curtan No one really talks about it. The big difference though,
Speaker 1: is Patrick Curtain will grab a guy down the field,
Speaker 1: and he'll just put his head down and run back
Speaker 1: like get back into you know, go out to the
Speaker 1: huddle or whatever, like jac Horn. This is why it's
Speaker 1: just he's just so demonstrative every time he'll hold a
Speaker 1: guy and then he'll turn around and go what non
Speaker 1: non non, Nope, and it's like, hey, man, Curtan like
Speaker 1: very pro about it. Hey, I'm gonna hold you, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna grab you. I'm gonna grab you. I'm gonna grab
Speaker 1: Just go back to the huddle, normal, normal day at
Speaker 1: the normal day at the office. I do think it's
Speaker 1: interesting because it stands out way more when you watch
Speaker 1: Horn than it does with Certain It maybe Horn's a
Speaker 1: little more grabbier than Certain but like st act like
Speaker 1: Curtan's not getting his hands in there a little bit.
Speaker 1: He just he just has a good way of not
Speaker 1: showing it after the play and a good timing to
Speaker 1: just kind of pull it back at the right time
Speaker 1: and not like play to the refs. It's very fun.
Speaker 1: The differences is that it's Horn's primary coverage technique. Yea, yeah,
Speaker 1: he does it a lot more. I mean it happens
Speaker 1: with a lot of corners, but I more so with
Speaker 1: JC Horn. Every time he gets up he is looking
Speaker 1: for the official, either to make sure he didn't throw
Speaker 1: a flag or to complain because the flag wasn't thrown.
Speaker 1: It's just it's amazing when you're watching him every time
Speaker 1: after a play he gets up and meanly finds the
Speaker 1: official for one reason or the other. It's it's just
Speaker 1: fascinating with him, even with like the grabbiness and the
Speaker 1: hands And I've always had trouble kind of deciphering this myself,
Speaker 1: so I'll pass this question onto you guys. But when
Speaker 1: does it become a problem whenever there is a corner,
Speaker 1: like like you're you're differing even certain and far or
Speaker 1: excuse me in Horn here, But when does it become
Speaker 1: a problem whenever they are handsy downfield? Because it is
Speaker 1: a technique thing and it is something that can be taught, right, Yeah, No, No,
Speaker 1: it's a problem when it's in the super Bowl and
Speaker 1: the rest want to throw a lot of flags. True,
Speaker 1: but I'm more of saying I agree, But I'm I'm
Speaker 1: kind of trying to say, when is it more of
Speaker 1: a draft issue? When are you going to knock a
Speaker 1: guy for being handsy as opposed to another guy for
Speaker 1: being handsy, because everybody's gonna be physical in some sense
Speaker 1: whenever they're in a cornerback position. But what is the
Speaker 1: threshold of it being a problem and it being fixable?
Speaker 1: From a draft prospect, I think you just have to
Speaker 1: figure out is he doing that because he's incapable of
Speaker 1: covering or is he doing that because it gives him
Speaker 1: an added advantage and he knows he can get away
Speaker 1: with it at the college level. For JC Horn, I'll
Speaker 1: tell you this, at the moment, he's my cornerback number one.
Speaker 1: And that's while acknowledging that he is the graviest corner
Speaker 1: I've ever studied. Because I also see that his athleticism
Speaker 1: it doesn't require that. So if it becomes a big
Speaker 1: issue and he's getting flagged twice a week in the NFL,
Speaker 1: then you're gonna have to take it away. But I
Speaker 1: also view it as the positive of that's that aggressive mindset,
Speaker 1: that's that you're not you get nothing from me like
Speaker 1: I'm I'm going to be with you every step of
Speaker 1: the way. You're gonna feel me. I'm going to be here.
Speaker 1: So unless it's to cover up for a lack of something,
Speaker 1: I won't kill you yet. It's just a matter of
Speaker 1: in the league. If you start getting flagged every week
Speaker 1: then and we can't take it away from you and
Speaker 1: have you still be good. But I think his athleticism
Speaker 1: is good enough that it's not required. I think the
Speaker 1: other thing too with that is I'd rather give me
Speaker 1: the aggressive guy and we'll try to scale it back
Speaker 1: as opposed to the non aggressive guy, the passive player,
Speaker 1: and try to crank it up with him. You know,
Speaker 1: I'd rather give me the JC Horns of the world,
Speaker 1: and we'll manage it and work on it as opposed
Speaker 1: to the opposite. So you know, that's that's another reason
Speaker 1: why I think Horns. You know, even though he is
Speaker 1: grabby what five penalties and seven games this year, you
Speaker 1: know you still feel comfortable with him as a first
Speaker 1: round pick. No. I like that a lot. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's a great answer. If it relies if his athleticism
Speaker 1: relies on the fact of him being hanzy to be successful,
Speaker 1: then that's an issue. And if not, then hey, it's
Speaker 1: a teachable thing and hopefully professional coaches could make an impact.
Speaker 1: I like that a lot. That's a good answer from
Speaker 1: both of you, guys. Let's go ahead and take our
Speaker 1: second break. When we come back, there's some offensive lineman
Speaker 1: that we need to talk about on this show, because
Speaker 1: we don't talk a whole lot about the offensive line,
Speaker 1: especially on the interior. We'll talk about it next the
Speaker 1: hog Miley's up front when we return here on the
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Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys dot Draft Show final segment to hear
Speaker 1: of the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, Glad you're
Speaker 1: with us, Everybody, just take a moment and say a
Speaker 1: quick prayer for Jeff Cavanall's phone batteries, so that way,
Speaker 1: hopefully he stays with us the entirety of this final segment,
Speaker 1: but if not, he'll join us next week. I guess
Speaker 1: if if we can't get him back up and go him.
Speaker 1: But Dane Burglar, Jeff Cavana, Kevin, Katie Turner, I'm Kyle Yeomans,
Speaker 1: and well, Dane, there are some offensive linemen we need
Speaker 1: to talk about. Katie. You put this in our group
Speaker 1: message as well this past week, and I know Jeff
Speaker 1: has been hitting up on these these offensive lineman too,
Speaker 1: So there's been a lot of offensive line talk and
Speaker 1: we're gonna go gonna go through that quite a bit
Speaker 1: here over the next couple of moments. But Katie, what
Speaker 1: were some of the topics that you wanted to hit
Speaker 1: whenever it came to the front five and how we
Speaker 1: could potentially be shaped out in this draft class. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's a lot of things to
Speaker 1: talk about with these guys, and anytime Jeff is tweeting
Speaker 1: him out offensive lineman, you know that you're in good
Speaker 1: shape to talk about this. You want to take advantage
Speaker 1: of Jeff because generally Jeff didn't like to talk about
Speaker 1: offensive lineman with me. So I liked the Jeff sitting
Speaker 1: out so well, look, there was a time where I
Speaker 1: didn't need to worry about it on the Cowboys, and
Speaker 1: so I grew to not care about watching offensive lineman
Speaker 1: because you didn't need them. And now it might be
Speaker 1: time to turn that page. So I have to do
Speaker 1: the annoying work of watching offensive line. Now we've talked
Speaker 1: so much about Pinney Sewell and Rashawn Slater. I don't
Speaker 1: want to spend a tole lot of time on those
Speaker 1: guys today, but I think there is a conversation to
Speaker 1: be had about what happens after that, and day I'll
Speaker 1: go to you dry saw as I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people's offensive tackle three. You start to get Vera
Speaker 1: Tucker from USC in there, Oklahoma State's Tevin Jenkins, and
Speaker 1: there's lots of guys Eikenberg, if you want to talk
Speaker 1: about him, there's tons of guys. I start to think,
Speaker 1: you know the Cowboys success, I do know. I feel
Speaker 1: like I know how the Joneses operate a lot. I
Speaker 1: feel like they feel comfortable taking first round off. It's
Speaker 1: a lineman, and I do think that's in play if
Speaker 1: they traded back. And I don't know if that's the
Speaker 1: right thing to do, but if there was a trade back,
Speaker 1: I still think offensive lineman would be in play. But
Speaker 1: the other thing that I've been thinking about is if
Speaker 1: you're sitting there at forty four and you're trading up
Speaker 1: into the back of the first round, or you're trading
Speaker 1: up into the top of the second round, and it
Speaker 1: was for a player, who would it be? And I
Speaker 1: know you can look the names are limitless, But for me,
Speaker 1: I start to think about, do they even know that
Speaker 1: they needed offensive tackle? The answer is probably yes, but
Speaker 1: they might need a guard just the same way they
Speaker 1: need a tackle, And I think those are questions they're
Speaker 1: gonna be balancing. And the easy answer is find a
Speaker 1: guy who can play both. Yeah, And that's obviously easier
Speaker 1: said than done, but you know, it's if you're gonna
Speaker 1: find one. I think this is a class to do it.
Speaker 1: There's this week on the Athletic I posted my top
Speaker 1: twelve offensive tackles, top ten guards, top eight centers, um.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of future NFL starters in there,
Speaker 1: a lot of them, and uh several of them do
Speaker 1: have the position flexibility that you're looking for, whether it
Speaker 1: be tackle, guard, guard, center. Um. So you know this
Speaker 1: this draft is. I don't think we talk enough about
Speaker 1: the offensive line and how uh strong of a group
Speaker 1: it is. You know, it's it's it's I don't think
Speaker 1: it's up there with you know, necessarily wide receiver or um,
Speaker 1: you know, even even Ed Dresser I think is up there.
Speaker 1: Corner is up there. But the offensive line is it's
Speaker 1: a really strong group. And you could pull Coles in
Speaker 1: these guys. I mean, Christian Derris saw it bugs the
Speaker 1: heck out of me. How he just doesn't he plays
Speaker 1: for like ninety percent of the play and then he's good,
Speaker 1: you know, like just just finish, man, come on, give
Speaker 1: me give me a killer instinct here. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: like that drives me nuts. But that's why that's why
Speaker 1: I put Tevin Jenkins ahead of Derrissaw on mine because
Speaker 1: I think that he plays harder, like he wants to
Speaker 1: finish you. He plays with that mentality. And Derrissaw plays like,
Speaker 1: you know, this is easy. You know, he gets the
Speaker 1: job done, he does his job, and he's just kind
Speaker 1: of like cool. And Jenkins is like, I want to
Speaker 1: kill you, yeah, and I'm not no no arguments for
Speaker 1: me on that. They three and four are very close
Speaker 1: from me. I went Derris saw Jenkins, but if if
Speaker 1: you flip those no issue with that at all. Jenkins
Speaker 1: is so uniquely powerful, um, and he does have that
Speaker 1: killer instinct that you want to see more from from
Speaker 1: Derris Saw. Jenkins a little short armed, and that worries
Speaker 1: me a little bit. UM. But I do think both
Speaker 1: of these guys, I don't see why either of these
Speaker 1: guys wouldn't be able to move inside to guard if
Speaker 1: you needed him too. So you know we're talking about
Speaker 1: a trade back situation from from ten. You know, maybe
Speaker 1: either of those two guys are on the radar um
Speaker 1: and if they wait until day two to address the position,
Speaker 1: I think there's there's gonna be options. Dylan Radins from
Speaker 1: North Dakota State Deante Smith, East Carolina. Um, you know
Speaker 1: guys with tackle and guard experience, who you know your
Speaker 1: your football team is going to be better if you
Speaker 1: draft these guys. Your offensive line depth is going to
Speaker 1: be better. And it's just it's it's going to help
Speaker 1: your entire offense. So it might not be the sexiest pick,
Speaker 1: but I think it would make sense for this team.
Speaker 1: Do you think it would be easier to address the
Speaker 1: offensive line issues in Day two than it would be
Speaker 1: to add safety or a corner or somebody on the
Speaker 1: on the defensive side of the football if you didn't
Speaker 1: go offensive tackle at ten? Dane, riddle me this, tell
Speaker 1: me if you think I'm too early on this. But
Speaker 1: you talk about having him play both or having the
Speaker 1: ability to. What if you took Alex Leatherwood in the
Speaker 1: second round, Alabama's left tackle that I think some are
Speaker 1: going to view him as a guard and maybe he
Speaker 1: could do both. Is that too early for Leatherwood? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think that's that's later what they picked forty four.
Speaker 1: I mean to me, that's exact right right where Leatherwood
Speaker 1: should be drafted, you know, somewhere between thirty five and fifty,
Speaker 1: you know, I think he's in that range. Personally, I
Speaker 1: grat him as a guard. He's just he's not the
Speaker 1: most blusive guy. He's got a little bit of stiffness
Speaker 1: in his lower body, and so I think that he's
Speaker 1: going to be better inside a guard. He played it
Speaker 1: what as a sophomore before he moved back to left
Speaker 1: tackle as a junior and senior, so we do have
Speaker 1: some tape of him at guard. But yeah, I think
Speaker 1: he wants to be a tackle, and so I think
Speaker 1: he's shown enough that you feel okay with him if
Speaker 1: you want to keep him outside. But again, I think
Speaker 1: he's better inside. And again that's why we're talking about
Speaker 1: a second round pick and not a first round pick
Speaker 1: with some of his issues. But in the second round, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you feel good about Alex Leatherwood. And the
Speaker 1: way they operate is like free agency clean up holes
Speaker 1: for the draft. So do they bring Cam Irving back?
Speaker 1: Do they bring Joe Looney back? Do they add any
Speaker 1: depth that you know, guard or tackle to make make
Speaker 1: you go okay? Now, we just need to focus on tackle,
Speaker 1: and if you're doing that, you're just folks on tackle.
Speaker 1: That's where your names like Leam Eickenberg of Notre Dame
Speaker 1: come into play. Maybe on day two, maybe Samuel Cosmi
Speaker 1: from Texas, maybe that comes into play, or if you
Speaker 1: need a guard. I mean I mentioned him earlier. He's
Speaker 1: my guy, and he may not fit what they want
Speaker 1: to do on offense. They might want to play a
Speaker 1: little faster um. But man, I am a big, big
Speaker 1: fan of Deontay Brown. I know I mentioned earlier, and
Speaker 1: maybe you can get him on Maybe you can get
Speaker 1: him at seventy five in round three. You know the
Speaker 1: other guy, it's a very interesting name if you need
Speaker 1: it interior offensive line help. And who knows how far
Speaker 1: he'll drop is Landed Dickerson of Alabama. After the ACL
Speaker 1: they'll knock him a little bit, but I don't think
Speaker 1: it's gonna drop him too far. So maybe there's a
Speaker 1: little day two value, maybe a guy who sides a
Speaker 1: little bit just because he might be a little late
Speaker 1: to the party. You know, maybe he's ready to start
Speaker 1: training camp. He should be at least pretty close to
Speaker 1: that is that's a great name because you know, we
Speaker 1: know this team in the second round, they're not they're
Speaker 1: not scared to take an injury guy or a character guy.
Speaker 1: And Landard Dickerson, that's that's that's a great point. I
Speaker 1: mean he would be if he fell at a forty four.
Speaker 1: Scoop him up. I mean, this, this guy. The injury
Speaker 1: history is long, extensive and worrisome, but he's also an
Speaker 1: easy first round talent. I actually like him better at guard,
Speaker 1: even though he played almost primarily center at Alabama, but
Speaker 1: he could play both. He brings that culture that you
Speaker 1: want his football characters outstanding on the field outstanding. Um,
Speaker 1: it's just you worry about him staying on the field,
Speaker 1: and you know, the greatest predictor of future injury is
Speaker 1: past injury, and he has you know, more than enough
Speaker 1: of that. So but if he's gonna be there a
Speaker 1: forty four, it might be worth the risk. Dane. You
Speaker 1: say all of these great things about about him and
Speaker 1: about his character and his on the field talent and everything,
Speaker 1: and then you say the injury history and how it's
Speaker 1: extensive and now it's a predictor, and then like I'm
Speaker 1: all out again on him. I mean all I'm already
Speaker 1: out because I don't want the same offensive line trouble
Speaker 1: that the Cowboys had this past year, because that's exactly
Speaker 1: what it was. It was a lot of Bama evolving door.
Speaker 1: A lot of Bama hate out of you opens today.
Speaker 1: I'm just no Jones, no Landon Dicker. Where did they
Speaker 1: do to you? That's true? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe
Speaker 1: it is just Alabama. I just I also hate DeVante Smithton. No,
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. I don't hate you. Oh No, Kyle, No, No,
Speaker 1: he's really good. No, he's really good. I promise, I promise, Kyle,
Speaker 1: real quick, real quick. I got a question for you then,
Speaker 1: because if you don't want at the injury history bothers
Speaker 1: you there, does round four Walker a little from Stanford
Speaker 1: do anything for you? Yes, because it's less. I mean
Speaker 1: what would we already have had four picks before that,
Speaker 1: a first round pick, a second round pick, and potentially
Speaker 1: two third round picks, So he'd be your fifth pick
Speaker 1: in the draft. I would take that. I would take
Speaker 1: Walker a little at that point. Yeah. I think he'd
Speaker 1: be a steal at that point too. Yeah. He's he's he.
Speaker 1: He had a missed opportunity by not playing at the
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl. He had his invite, he declined it. I
Speaker 1: mean that's a big missed opportunity for him. Um, we
Speaker 1: just haven't seen him on the fuel. No, you know,
Speaker 1: almost two years, so you know, he's a really talented player.
Speaker 1: It's just tough he would have qualified for that first
Speaker 1: segment when we went over guys that are just tough
Speaker 1: to figure out, and with him, it's just because the
Speaker 1: lack of sample size and just haven't seen him in
Speaker 1: a while. And just to be clear on Dickerson specifically,
Speaker 1: I still have him as a as a top five
Speaker 1: lineman or wait no, he is seventh on my list
Speaker 1: at the moment in terms of interior offensive lineman. He's
Speaker 1: seventh at the point. So I still think very highly
Speaker 1: of him, and I think he's a He's an incredible
Speaker 1: player and an incredible leader. You saw that just from
Speaker 1: the SEC Championship game and the reaction that he had
Speaker 1: and then of course whenever he came back in and
Speaker 1: took the final neel down of the Natty. I mean, overall,
Speaker 1: he's he's he was the heart and soul of that offense.
Speaker 1: But I want to go back to a question, or
Speaker 1: not even a question, but something that Bucky Brooks said
Speaker 1: on Tuesday show, and he said, if you're going to
Speaker 1: be in a position that the Cowboys are in and
Speaker 1: you want to get an offensive tackle, go get him
Speaker 1: at ten. Don't don't wait and go get a Duke,
Speaker 1: Go get a Slater, Go get a deisol or even
Speaker 1: if Sools somehow miraculously fell, I mean it happens every year.
Speaker 1: If he somehow fell, get one of these top guys
Speaker 1: at tackle, and then worry about the rest of your
Speaker 1: team later on. Do you agree with this standpoint from
Speaker 1: an overall look of the Cowboys, because I mean, have
Speaker 1: that kind of my rebuttal to that would be, well,
Speaker 1: why wouldn't you say the same thing about corner? You know,
Speaker 1: why why would it? Why wouldn't you say the same
Speaker 1: thing about well, you know, go get you know you
Speaker 1: the Cowboys may have a chance to draft the best
Speaker 1: corner in this in this class. You know, why wouldn't
Speaker 1: you say that also about corner instead of, you know,
Speaker 1: waiting to see what's available for you in the second round. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't necessarily disagree with it. I just
Speaker 1: think you could say that about several positions for this
Speaker 1: team and for this class. Dane Slater, Rashawn Slater and
Speaker 1: Greg Newsome or Patrick Certan and Alex Sletherwood, U Slater
Speaker 1: and Newsome Well Newsom make forty four. No. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's he's going in the first round. The only the
Speaker 1: only thing you worry about Newsome is yeah, again, a
Speaker 1: guy that's missed at least three games each year. Um,
Speaker 1: and so he's got a very lean, wiry frame. Um.
Speaker 1: His him not holding up would be the only reason
Speaker 1: he isn't going the first round in my opinion, just
Speaker 1: a really I comped in the Kyle Fuller. I think
Speaker 1: he's a top four corner in this draft. It just
Speaker 1: comes down to, you know, do you trust him to
Speaker 1: stay out there? And if you do, I think he's
Speaker 1: gonna go in the first round. Okay, Slater and Newsome
Speaker 1: or Sir Tannon Jenkins said again, now, what was it?
Speaker 1: Slater and Newsome or Sir Tan and Tevin Jenkins? Tevin
Speaker 1: Jenkins at forty four would be amazing, that really nice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he might have held up a convenience. If you got
Speaker 1: something something, it would be a ton of thing. He's
Speaker 1: still still a huge Yeah. I would still go with
Speaker 1: the Northwestern route, just because I think I would too.
Speaker 1: I'm that high on Newsome, but that definitely makes you
Speaker 1: think more. I guess Jenkins is really good and obviously
Speaker 1: Curtains a really good player. So that I mean, if
Speaker 1: if if you're choosing between those two scenarios, the draft's
Speaker 1: working out okay for you, I think he would be
Speaker 1: happy with either one of those. I would be bumped
Speaker 1: about either one of those if you're the Cowboys, because
Speaker 1: you're fixing your offensive line or at least adding some
Speaker 1: depth and then adding some potentials there and then you're
Speaker 1: turning around, then you got yourself a starter on defense
Speaker 1: in each of those realms at cornerback. But we're running
Speaker 1: out of time. That's gonna do it for us here
Speaker 1: on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Be sure
Speaker 1: to follow all of these guys on Twitter. They have
Speaker 1: great work throughout the week DAYE on the Athletic of course,
Speaker 1: Katie and Jeff in the local radio markets as well,
Speaker 1: and continue to do fantastic work. But until then, until
Speaker 1: next Thursday, ten am Central Time, We'll see you next
Speaker 1: time for Dan Burglar, Kevin, kat Turner, for Jeff Kavanaugh,
Speaker 1: Chris Bean Back in studio, I'm Kyle Yeoman. Thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. This
Speaker 1: has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and
Speaker 1: the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.