Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukeleman.
Speaker 2: This is a production of the Bear Grease podcast called
Speaker 2: The Bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper,
Speaker 2: and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast,
Speaker 2: presented by f HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting
Speaker 2: and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as
Speaker 2: the place as we explore.
Speaker 3: I don't know if y'all are aware of this, but
Speaker 3: I am nursing pretty severe injury.
Speaker 4: Oh what physical emotional.
Speaker 3: Very a physical injury. I have been alternating ice and
Speaker 3: heat using a tens unit late. It's been kind of serious.
Speaker 1: Because he's going to be on prayer chains all across
Speaker 1: the country. Tell us what happens.
Speaker 3: It's a lot better today. But I couldn't like turn
Speaker 3: to the ride at all yesterday because I thought about sneezing.
Speaker 3: I didn't sneeze, I just thought about it. I geared
Speaker 3: up for it.
Speaker 2: You injured yourself, thinking, tell the tell the story about
Speaker 2: it happened.
Speaker 3: Well, okay, so here's what really happened. I think what
Speaker 3: happened is that I was actually I made a quilt
Speaker 3: this weekend for my first ever grand niece, one of
Speaker 3: the next generation of my nephew a child, and it's
Speaker 3: the first one of that generation to have a child.
Speaker 3: So I made a quilt. My mom came over and
Speaker 3: helped me with it. Totally bit off, more than we
Speaker 3: could chew in the time allotted for this project. And
Speaker 3: so I just like sat over a sewing mission or
Speaker 3: you know, uh, I was like all day lost.
Speaker 2: I know, well, no, I mean, she's there's always deadline.
Speaker 2: There's always dead like this. It's always there's a baby shower. Right,
Speaker 2: there's a baby shower that has a date, and then
Speaker 2: like three days before it's like, let's make this child
Speaker 2: something that will last their life.
Speaker 3: Well, to be honest, I bought the.
Speaker 1: Would well, no, you can't buy something that will.
Speaker 3: Tb that's right. Good. I actually purchased the materials for
Speaker 3: this in January. It's been a busy year, you know,
Speaker 3: and so so we and we have you're hunched over,
Speaker 3: so munched over. So I think that probably my back
Speaker 3: was like I'd rather you not be like this. You know,
Speaker 3: this is too much for.
Speaker 5: Birthdays.
Speaker 3: Birthday I've never never felt like I've had accumulation of
Speaker 3: birthdays quite like I did this second. So I get
Speaker 3: to the end of it, I'm getting. I'm super happy.
Speaker 3: We finish it like midnight, one in the morning, and
Speaker 3: a sneeze comes on me, and I get ready to
Speaker 3: go for it, right, I I get I have powerful sneezes.
Speaker 3: I'm not. I'm not a meek and mild sneezer at all.
Speaker 3: I wish I was. It's humiliating to me when I
Speaker 3: sneeze awful. But one came on. I was alone, everybody
Speaker 3: else had gone to bed and I and I didn't sneeze.
Speaker 3: Nothing came out, but a muscle in my back seized up.
Speaker 5: Sneezer.
Speaker 3: It's horrible. I mean, just just like. And so Clay
Speaker 3: wakes up in the morning and I said, hey, I
Speaker 3: really hurt my back, I said, He said why, I said, Well,
Speaker 3: to be honest, I thought about.
Speaker 6: Sneezing anticipatory sneeze injury.
Speaker 1: Incapacitated a walk, but.
Speaker 5: Just just I thought about football.
Speaker 3: So Clay said that either, like, the best case scenario
Speaker 3: is that I got a quilting and the worst scenario
Speaker 3: is that I got an injury from thinking about.
Speaker 2: We're so glad you could join us today, because you know,
Speaker 2: I heard and I like this.
Speaker 1: I like the thought of this. I like to think
Speaker 1: about it like this. Aging.
Speaker 2: Aging is actually the accumulation of error in your body
Speaker 2: d N a replication. I feel like, okay, okay, maybe
Speaker 2: I said it already, but when you think about aging,
Speaker 2: it's actually, you know, your DNA replicates, and it's it's
Speaker 2: an accumulation of error that makes you old and eventually
Speaker 2: makes you die, and it has very things that happened.
Speaker 4: There has to be a tipping point of that, right well,
Speaker 4: I think quilting injuries. There's got to be an inflection point.
Speaker 2: It's so great to have you all here. To my right,
Speaker 2: I have my dear friend Josh Landbridge Spillmaker.
Speaker 5: Great glad to be.
Speaker 1: Here, Josh, you have brought your lovely wife, who's also.
Speaker 6: Yes, Hello, hello.
Speaker 4: Render second time, I think, maybe even more.
Speaker 2: To Christie's left is mister Newcomb. Great to have you, Misske,
Speaker 2: doctor Newcomb. To Missy's I fancy scholar.
Speaker 1: Misters right is doctor Britt Reeves.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, great squire.
Speaker 1: How's this country life going, man?
Speaker 5: It's it's more fun than than a bunsh of of puppies.
Speaker 5: It's just I've getting lots of good feedback talking to people.
Speaker 6: This is the feedback coming from kind of like a
Speaker 6: like a like a wife and your daughter, like an
Speaker 6: algal algorithmic circle of people that just bolster your confidence NonStop.
Speaker 5: And it's my mom and my wife. Yep, that's who
Speaker 5: it is. But this, man, it's going really good.
Speaker 1: This last week. You talked about brim fishing.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 6: I haven't listened to that one yet. I'm really looking
Speaker 6: forward to.
Speaker 5: I haven't gotten I don't know how many pictures of
Speaker 5: folks sending me and said, man, you inspired me get
Speaker 5: out and go catch fish. And I'm like, man, this
Speaker 5: is great. I hope they ain't going to where I
Speaker 5: like to go.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's some mashing them. Man, they're catching fish and
Speaker 5: lots of pictures of folks taking kids out fishing.
Speaker 3: Oh that's great.
Speaker 5: Oh, it's wonderful.
Speaker 2: You know what's going to happen to you is what
Speaker 2: happened to me and Daniel Boone.
Speaker 5: What's that?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Daniel Boone went into Kentucky in the late seventeen sixties. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and found to him what was a paradise. It was
Speaker 2: also the land and inhabited by you know, the Shawnees
Speaker 2: and others. He hunted for two years and then within
Speaker 2: thirty years of him going in there and being one
Speaker 2: of the first white Europeans to cross the Cumberland Gap
Speaker 2: and to go into Kentucky, within thirty years, Kentucky.
Speaker 1: Was a state.
Speaker 6: Oh what does this have to do with you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, one day you're gonna go to your brim fishing
Speaker 2: hole and it's gonna be covered with people.
Speaker 4: It's gonna be a mall, it's going to be a
Speaker 4: state a mall.
Speaker 6: It's gonna be a star bus.
Speaker 2: I've heard that's every time you'll tell the story. I
Speaker 2: just keep bringing it down. I'm so sorry for that.
Speaker 3: We got our friend.
Speaker 2: No, No, that's but that's a That's a good thing
Speaker 2: is when people do what you're inspiring them to do.
Speaker 5: Yeah, fish.
Speaker 2: And so today I've seen a few things around you
Speaker 2: saying that brim is your favorite fish to eat, more than.
Speaker 5: Crappy, more than anything.
Speaker 2: Is it because of the taste or is it because
Speaker 2: of the accessibility of crappy? Because sometimes I like something
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I like this better than that, And
Speaker 2: it doesn't have to do with the thing. It more
Speaker 2: has to do with things around the thing, Like this
Speaker 2: thing is accessible to me, So I love it. And
Speaker 2: I did it with my dad, and I can do it.
Speaker 5: There's obviously a lot of nostalgia with it because it
Speaker 5: was our favorite pastime. And usually anytime I catch a
Speaker 5: crappie it's an accident. I'm not a very good crappy fisherman. So,
Speaker 5: but you have a plate them side beside, you know,
Speaker 5: I'm gonna I just prefer brim. I just love them.
Speaker 2: Can you tell me that the describe to me the
Speaker 2: difference between a brim and a crappie and taste.
Speaker 5: Can you one's good, one's better? Okay, I mean I can't.
Speaker 5: I can't give you that. I can't give you that. Now.
Speaker 2: You know how if we had a guess here, I
Speaker 2: would have you describe in detail what we're wearing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: here's a plate of brim, a plate of crappy. Talk
Speaker 2: to me about why one tastes different than the other.
Speaker 5: Well, I like brim out of the river more than
Speaker 5: I do out of a steel water out of a lake. Okay,
Speaker 5: they taste better to me. It's a fresher taste. And
Speaker 5: people say, you know this tastes fishy, Well, it's fish.
Speaker 5: That's what fish should taste.
Speaker 6: Yeah, nobody says this hamburgers too, hamburgers. It tastes cowie, cowie.
Speaker 5: It's whatever you like to eat. It's like gamy. You
Speaker 5: know whatever that's game doesn't taste gamy. It tastes like
Speaker 5: what it is. Bears tastes like bear. Deer tastes like deer,
Speaker 5: crappie have. The meat is a little whiter, probably it's
Speaker 5: a little whiter than what what brim are. But they're
Speaker 5: they know they're different fish. So I just my palate
Speaker 5: I grew up. If you put numbers on the on
Speaker 5: fish that I ate growing up, it would be brim
Speaker 5: by far the most, and then catfish and then everything else.
Speaker 1: How many actual brim do you think you've eaten?
Speaker 5: I would.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna meet somebody, and when I do, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: give them a hug and like and bottom would be
Speaker 2: my friend for the rest of their life if they
Speaker 2: can tell me how many brim they've eaten in their life.
Speaker 5: I quit counting Whalen's coonsye tree, last year, sometime after
Speaker 5: three hundred and fifty.
Speaker 2: Now I was I was pretty impressed that you were
Speaker 2: keeping track, yep, of the amount of coons that here.
Speaker 5: But I couldn't tell you. I couldn't even.
Speaker 2: So, Missy and I ate some fish this week. Miss
Speaker 2: He's not a big fish person. I'm not when I when.
Speaker 3: I'm disciplining myself because I want those omagas.
Speaker 2: When me and Miss nukembe crossed paths and our lives
Speaker 2: became one. She didn't like fish, so it kind of
Speaker 2: inherited anything.
Speaker 3: Yeah. You know when people say it tastes fishy, I'm like,
Speaker 3: and that's not good. And that's what this entire species
Speaker 3: tastes like more or less. Yeah, and you know, I
Speaker 3: was probably not raised on fine fish.
Speaker 5: Catfish.
Speaker 4: You don't like that either.
Speaker 3: When we would go to restaurants and they would fry
Speaker 3: their French fries in the same oil that they would
Speaker 3: fry their fishing, I'd be like, I don't like these
Speaker 3: French fries, gotcha?
Speaker 1: I mean that was so this week.
Speaker 2: I was in Alaska back in May and we caught
Speaker 2: a halibit, about a eighty pound halibit, which was a
Speaker 2: pretty fun thing to watch. I was in the boat.
Speaker 2: I didn't catch it, but Christy, do you know what
Speaker 2: halib it is? It's a big.
Speaker 6: Flat Yes, it looks like a big flounder.
Speaker 5: Man.
Speaker 1: So a halibut.
Speaker 2: If I was explaining this to Brint the other day, standard,
Speaker 2: a standard brim would be upright in the water. He
Speaker 2: would be thin and tall, and his fins would be oriented.
Speaker 2: You know, his dorsal fin would be pointing towards the sun.
Speaker 2: His tail would be pointing south, his mouth would be
Speaker 2: pointing north. A halibit would be exactly like a brim.
Speaker 2: His mouth would be exactly like that, except turned flat
Speaker 2: so that his dorsal fin would be pointing like on
Speaker 2: the ground. But both his eyes are on the top side,
Speaker 2: on the same side of his head. So when you
Speaker 2: get him and turn him upright, it looks like it
Speaker 2: messed up fish.
Speaker 3: So I wouldn't just see those hand motions again.
Speaker 2: This is a brim. This is a brim swimming through
Speaker 2: the water. This is a halibit swimming through the water,
Speaker 2: except the halibu has two eyes on top. A brim
Speaker 2: has two eyes on the side.
Speaker 5: It was like Stamer.
Speaker 1: Yes, So this week we.
Speaker 2: I fried some halibate, And this story just keeps getting deeper.
Speaker 1: This story is making its own gravy.
Speaker 2: I went, I wanted to fry halibu, and I went
Speaker 2: to the cupboard where we keep our bear grease, which
Speaker 2: I thought we had like ten jars, to be honest
Speaker 2: with you, and there was one jar. Gosh, and that
Speaker 2: one jar was from the rendering in at bear Camp
Speaker 2: two years ago, I mean, coming up on two years.
Speaker 5: How was it? Well?
Speaker 2: I opened it up, and I have in the past
Speaker 2: I have used bear grease was a year and a
Speaker 2: half old, and so this is more than a year
Speaker 2: and a half old. And I opened it up, and
Speaker 2: with age it the odor becomes stronger. It's not bad.
Speaker 2: It's not rancid like you would know of rancid odor.
Speaker 2: It was a stronger odor, and I went, well, it's
Speaker 2: not bad. So I got the pan hot, poured it in. Initially,
Speaker 2: the first three minutes of putting that barrel in there
Speaker 2: there was a it kind of had a stronger odor,
Speaker 2: not a bad odor, just a musty, little musty odor.
Speaker 2: And then once the oil got hot, it completely clarified
Speaker 2: and I fried that halibate in that fish and it
Speaker 2: was incredible. There was zero, zero taste of what being.
Speaker 2: Barrel lasted almost two years on the shelf. Non refracer.
Speaker 3: Be careful people listening, always check for this. I wouldn't.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't normally recommend people eat a year and a
Speaker 3: half old and actually smelling it. At the beginning, I
Speaker 3: was like, I don't know that I want any of that.
Speaker 3: But I ate the halibt because and I've eaten trout
Speaker 3: this summer that bear got I think he got with you, Josh,
Speaker 3: and and I'm I'm developing a tolerance. It's that that
Speaker 3: fish tasted good. I mean it really good, was really good.
Speaker 3: It truly didn't have any type of like butter and
Speaker 3: brit said the same thing about trout. But honestly, the
Speaker 3: trout we cooked it in this garlic scape butter, and
Speaker 3: it was so good and I didn't taste any fishiness
Speaker 3: to the trout.
Speaker 4: It's so trasture.
Speaker 3: That is a little bit of a that's is like, okay,
Speaker 3: this is this. The texture is what has been a
Speaker 3: turn off to me. But I actually really liked the
Speaker 3: Halibit there was no no interesting aftertaste. And and really
Speaker 3: Clay just like pulled off of Pinterest or something. It's
Speaker 3: the the this battle.
Speaker 1: I'm not on Interest, but I don't think that it
Speaker 1: was a good batter.
Speaker 2: It's a batter that used uh flour and bread crumbs.
Speaker 2: It was commination, so it wasn't a cornmeal batter for
Speaker 2: that flounder, and it was.
Speaker 1: It was very good.
Speaker 3: It was very Yeah, it was really good.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But the the halib, it it's it's almost like a
Speaker 2: chicken strip.
Speaker 1: You can break it and very Have you had it, Christy?
Speaker 4: Yes, I love it. Where have you had hal I've
Speaker 4: had it in Seattle really good, steamed, steamed. I've had
Speaker 4: it steamed, broiled, never fried.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, fried. I think the way to go.
Speaker 6: Man.
Speaker 4: Okay, So when do you want us to come over?
Speaker 3: I would love to have you should come over, they supplied.
Speaker 3: Christy feeds me all the time. Click. Something big has
Speaker 3: happened that we haven't touched on yet, and that is
Speaker 3: Banjo has been back from boot camp for a couple
Speaker 3: of weeks and you haven't been ready to talk about it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So if you recall, for those of you listeners to
Speaker 2: the Bear Groose Render the Back last year, I talked
Speaker 2: about how I had Green broke Banjo. I'm trying to
Speaker 2: figure out how the best way to describe it. I
Speaker 2: was writing him in a round pin. I've got where
Speaker 2: he would take a saddle. We could get on him,
Speaker 2: we could ride him in a round pin. Last year,
Speaker 2: I used him to pack in bear bait in a
Speaker 2: place where we pack him bar bait, so he's been
Speaker 2: packed quite a bit, meaning he would use carry saddle
Speaker 2: panniers full of stuff loaded down and would have got
Speaker 2: a lot of exposure to just planet Earth by doing that.
Speaker 2: But last year he two different times.
Speaker 1: Bucked me off.
Speaker 2: He went wayward, he did, and it was my fault though,
Speaker 2: and I knew that it was. I knew that it
Speaker 2: was my Why you keep covering for this animal, Well,
Speaker 2: it's because it's it's it's relevant, Josh. It's relevant because.
Speaker 1: I just too quickly. I didn't do enough groundwork.
Speaker 2: I didn't I long trained him too, which means when
Speaker 2: I trained Izzy, I had her for the most part
Speaker 2: trained in about sixty days because I messed with her
Speaker 2: every day for sixty days, right, and went from almost
Speaker 2: zero to ridinger in sixty days.
Speaker 4: Was it is he the one you did the video
Speaker 4: series on.
Speaker 1: Okay and I still have her Okay Banjo. It was
Speaker 1: more like over a year.
Speaker 2: I did what I did in sixty days with Izzy,
Speaker 2: and it just didn't.
Speaker 3: Stick as well, and it's not as consistent.
Speaker 1: Now as consistent, and he bucked me off twice.
Speaker 2: Well, I felt like that it was my fault that
Speaker 2: I that I rushed him, and so I asked Dad
Speaker 2: and you guys what I should do.
Speaker 1: I had a really good mule man in Prai Grove
Speaker 1: eighty years old.
Speaker 2: I told him about Banjo and he he wanted me
Speaker 2: to quit talking so that he could say get rid
Speaker 2: of the mule, which was good advice, point being when
Speaker 2: when I said the mule bucked me off, what should I?
Speaker 1: And he was like, get rid of it?
Speaker 2: In his mind, it's like, why would you mess with
Speaker 2: an animal that already had to strike against it?
Speaker 1: Because a mule bucking you off is.
Speaker 2: Kind of in a way like a biting dog, you know,
Speaker 2: it's it's it's like, well maybe not but everybody, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: oh he's nice.
Speaker 5: Yeah, just so.
Speaker 2: But I really felt like that it was my fault
Speaker 2: and that he, deep inside had all the characteristics I
Speaker 2: was looking for in a mule. But Clay messed up.
Speaker 2: And so I remember my dad on this very show
Speaker 2: said get rid of it.
Speaker 1: It's not worth it, get rid of it, and I.
Speaker 2: About one of our kids, and I thought he was right,
Speaker 2: and he probably was at the time.
Speaker 1: It could have gone either way.
Speaker 2: But I went ahead and invested in Banjo and sent
Speaker 2: him to to the mill trainer, which is just a
Speaker 2: great guy.
Speaker 3: Something we should probably consider doing with some of our kids.
Speaker 1: I would.
Speaker 2: I would my kid there, I would.
Speaker 3: And he came back with a nice haircut. I mean,
Speaker 3: Banjo kind of went a little bit flashy, and he
Speaker 3: came back kind of humble. I mean, had a very
Speaker 3: tight you know, it was like he had been at
Speaker 3: boot camp.
Speaker 5: For everybody gets a buzz cut when you get the
Speaker 5: boot cut.
Speaker 2: He got four shoes, and he came home a lot
Speaker 2: more humble. And I've ridden him every day that I've
Speaker 2: been home since the day I got him, other than
Speaker 2: two days, so I've traveled a few days during that time,
Speaker 2: so not counting those days, but only two days that
Speaker 2: I've been home have I chosen not to write him.
Speaker 1: So I've probably ridden.
Speaker 2: Him ten times, sometimes as much as two hours, sometimes
Speaker 2: as little as thirty minutes. I've taken him on roads
Speaker 2: with traffic. I've walked him up to pedestrians with dogs.
Speaker 2: I've had him cross creeks, I've had him walk under bridges.
Speaker 2: I've had him in all varieties of binds, walked him
Speaker 2: through creeks, like when you're running one like this, you're
Speaker 2: trying to find his cracks as quickly as possible so
Speaker 2: you know what to expect. And then when he passes
Speaker 2: the test, you gain confidence in him.
Speaker 1: And he's doing very.
Speaker 5: On a scale, well, on a scale of one to ten.
Speaker 5: What was he when you took him over there? Oh?
Speaker 1: Three?
Speaker 5: What is he now?
Speaker 2: For the stage that he's at, he's probably an eight.
Speaker 2: But in the big mules, in the in the in
Speaker 2: the green broke mule category, he's an eight or nine.
Speaker 2: In the finished mule category, he's probably a five.
Speaker 1: Oh there's a different category.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm just saying it's compared to what he was
Speaker 5: when you take.
Speaker 6: And he's how old?
Speaker 1: He's five years old?
Speaker 2: Okay, so I've had him since he was weaned.
Speaker 5: You can't teach an old mule and new trick.
Speaker 4: Well, is the life span of a mule?
Speaker 2: Lifespan of the mule is going to be thirty plus
Speaker 2: years most of the time. Yeah, I've got a good
Speaker 2: twenty more working years, long enough to kill you. I
Speaker 2: remember one time I went coon hunting with an old
Speaker 2: man down on the Arkansas River and I asked him
Speaker 2: how long he'd lived where he lived.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no no. I asked him how long he'd
Speaker 1: been married. His wife was there, and he started the
Speaker 1: sentence off and he looked into the air and started counting,
Speaker 1: and he said, well, I got my mule.
Speaker 2: The mule died when it was fifty three years old,
Speaker 2: and I was married two years before I got the mule.
Speaker 2: I've been married fifty four years and he had a
Speaker 2: mule with fifty two years.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think that's the point of that story.
Speaker 5: Yeah, is this last name Reeve?
Speaker 2: When people ask me how long I've been married to Missy,
Speaker 2: I say, is he's eight and I was married thirteen
Speaker 2: years before. Izzy h fourteen years, fifteen years, twenty two years.
Speaker 5: Hey, you could do it.
Speaker 3: How long you've been married?
Speaker 2: Three?
Speaker 1: Twenty three?
Speaker 6: Math?
Speaker 5: Math?
Speaker 1: Math is tough.
Speaker 3: Nice. Let me say, I think that Banjo gets extra points.
Speaker 3: So because he's pleasant? Is he is mean? She is?
Speaker 3: She is?
Speaker 6: She means to certain people, I mean everybody.
Speaker 3: It's a salty old girl. I mean, she really is
Speaker 3: not pleasant.
Speaker 6: Before we started talking about Banjo, we talked about how
Speaker 6: great Izzy was. Well, so what happened?
Speaker 3: Lousy Clay loves Izzy but is he is really unpleasant
Speaker 3: every morning she wakes up, Like when she's here, every
Speaker 3: morning she boots the other mules out of the feed
Speaker 3: pile when they do anything. I mean, she's constantly harassing everyone.
Speaker 2: Well, see this is a classic, a classic example, and
Speaker 2: that's not a negative thing.
Speaker 3: I think Banjo's doing well in part because is he's
Speaker 3: not here right now and he's able to just kind.
Speaker 2: Of like it's a classic scenario where there's massively different
Speaker 2: systems for rating the usefulness of stuff based upon your
Speaker 2: worldview and what you do with the animal. Misty walks
Speaker 2: outside and feeds them most mornings. Yeah, and just watches
Speaker 2: them in the pasture. So when she sees Izzy, she
Speaker 2: sees a mean, sassy, bucky mule that's pushing and biting
Speaker 2: the other mules, which.
Speaker 1: Is very true. Is he's dominant.
Speaker 3: When I work in the Banjo actually comes up and
Speaker 3: eats the weeds beside the fit, so that he so
Speaker 3: that we're working side by. Actually he is a very
Speaker 3: he'll come up to you when you walk by him.
Speaker 2: He is, he's and he's probably never the dominant animal
Speaker 2: sounds in a pen, which can be a good thing.
Speaker 2: Is he though I'll tell you why I love Izzy
Speaker 2: is he's now going on eight years old. I've had
Speaker 2: her since she was eighteen months old, and I've had
Speaker 2: Izzy and uncountable sticky situations all over the place in
Speaker 2: different parts of the country. And she has never done
Speaker 2: anything crazy. And now, when you're evaluating people and friends,
Speaker 2: that's not a bad way to evaluate them.
Speaker 1: Part of the reason I love.
Speaker 2: Josh Spillmakers so much is he's never done anything really crazy.
Speaker 2: Brent has done like two crazy things, but I'm still
Speaker 2: giving him a chance.
Speaker 6: To strikes.
Speaker 2: You and Christie are perfect, but no, I'm serious. Usually
Speaker 2: you put three thousand miles on an animal that one time,
Speaker 2: you know, she when she crossed the river, yeah, freaked
Speaker 2: out and killed you, or or the one time that happened,
Speaker 2: or the one time, And so when you get an
Speaker 2: animal that just consistently doesn't doesn't do anything really stupid.
Speaker 2: Is he's never kicked me. Is he's never buked me off?
Speaker 2: Is he never run off of run me off.
Speaker 3: Bucked off river?
Speaker 6: Well, that was river's fault.
Speaker 1: That was river's fault. That was isy. Is he didn't
Speaker 1: Is he didn't? For sure?
Speaker 2: The mule ran ran with her and she lost control.
Speaker 2: So and that was when Izz he was young, and
Speaker 2: uh that was a major dead air. So is he's
Speaker 2: a great mule, she's she's she's high powered and she
Speaker 2: will she's a better.
Speaker 1: Oh, I've got her over at the Buddy's pasture on okay.
Speaker 6: So what would happen to Izzy if you took her
Speaker 6: to the Almish trainer? Him? That's right, Christy, No they
Speaker 6: I mean, would they do anything to her?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 6: Oh, yeah, I could take can you take a mule
Speaker 6: that's trained to a trainer and they can make her
Speaker 6: better hundred percent?
Speaker 2: When I went to pick up Banjo and me and
Speaker 2: the trainer went for a ride, like he was like, hey,
Speaker 2: when you come, we're going to go for a ride.
Speaker 2: I want you to ride Banjo, and I want to
Speaker 2: talk to you while you're riding and tell you what
Speaker 2: we've been doing. He rode a mule that came from
Speaker 2: Iowa that was supposedly a really high dollar, nice mule
Speaker 2: that the owner wanted to just get dialed in, real
Speaker 2: tight and get him neck rain and real good. Sometimes
Speaker 2: these mules are they plow rain train them, which means
Speaker 2: they if you want to go right, you just try
Speaker 2: to grab the right rain and just pull their head.
Speaker 2: Neck is when the two rains are coming up on
Speaker 2: either side of the neck and you just move your
Speaker 2: hand the direction you want to go, and actually the
Speaker 2: rain lays across the opposite side of their neck and
Speaker 2: they it's like power steering.
Speaker 1: You just kind of move.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, he could teach He could teach easy something
Speaker 2: for sure. Okay, yeah, yeah, So Banjo's great. I said
Speaker 2: all that to say Banjo may be for sale next April.
Speaker 4: Oh why next April?
Speaker 2: That's when that's when I will be confident and I
Speaker 2: want to ride him basically.
Speaker 1: For a year.
Speaker 6: Why would you get rid of him?
Speaker 1: Because he's gonna be worth.
Speaker 3: A lot of money, but money down right now on
Speaker 3: whether Banjo will be here next year.
Speaker 2: Listen, Okay, you want to really know, I mean, you
Speaker 2: get this great mule, Why would you get rid of it? Okay,
Speaker 2: josh I just when I when I got easy up
Speaker 2: to speed and where getting on her was no longer
Speaker 2: a question of what was going to happen, just knowing
Speaker 2: what was going to happen. Hm, if Banjo and Izzy
Speaker 2: are out there right now, I'm riding Banjo because I'm
Speaker 2: a trainer.
Speaker 1: I want to train him. I like passing with him.
Speaker 2: So is he's finished Banjo at some point will kind
Speaker 2: of be finished within the next year. And he is
Speaker 2: a he is a prime mule to be sold because
Speaker 2: of his looks, because of his.
Speaker 1: Age, and he'll be worth a lot of money.
Speaker 2: And I want to get another one. And I've actually
Speaker 2: already got another one in my sights. I want to
Speaker 2: trash the one flashy as they make.
Speaker 1: Brother, I don't. I don't.
Speaker 6: So if you get another meal, are you going to
Speaker 6: train it or are you gonna or those amish gonna try?
Speaker 2: I am okay with what happened with Banjo. I recognize
Speaker 2: the limitations on my travel schedule. In my life, I
Speaker 2: will get the animals started and end. But I may
Speaker 2: take it to my to my to my bro.
Speaker 4: I think you have to quantify the value added to
Speaker 4: Banjo by the celebrity he has gotten from being on
Speaker 4: this podcast.
Speaker 1: Well, he's don't hate the player, hate the game.
Speaker 2: Perhaps this whole thing has just been a ploy for
Speaker 2: me to become a high dollar sales trader.
Speaker 4: I think you should be a mule trader.
Speaker 1: Yeah, lifelong dream.
Speaker 7: Right like people do watch it, they trade if you
Speaker 7: if you say you get a year out and someone's like,
Speaker 7: I don't want to buy this meal, but I will
Speaker 7: trade you X for it.
Speaker 6: What would be the thing?
Speaker 1: Trade nothing but green bags? Why do you know why?
Speaker 2: Because I want to build a north wing off the
Speaker 2: off south headquarters and we're going to call it the
Speaker 2: Banjo Wing.
Speaker 6: All the wing literally is it going to be full
Speaker 6: of Banjo's misty.
Speaker 3: No, clay, clay is a number of different things that
Speaker 3: he will be using the proceeds of.
Speaker 1: This, or I may take this to Alaska.
Speaker 3: Whenever. Whenever I get upset about him potentially sailing Banjo,
Speaker 3: he's like, well, you just you don't know, but essentially
Speaker 3: that I'm going to use that money for X. And
Speaker 3: it's almost never the north wing. It has been once,
Speaker 3: but there's a there's a lot of other things that
Speaker 3: he told me. And I actually really like Banjo, you
Speaker 3: know when you take care of the animals, and I
Speaker 3: don't take care of them like ride them, you know,
Speaker 3: but just every morning I'm out there with them. And
Speaker 3: and this week someone left the gate open. Why And
Speaker 3: when I walked out there, Banjo was standing by the
Speaker 3: gate looking at it like he was scared of it.
Speaker 3: But inside the gate. He stayed in the fil and
Speaker 3: that kind of endeared me to Banjo. I'll fight to
Speaker 3: keep that mule.
Speaker 6: Person who left the gate open, a repeat offender.
Speaker 3: It was an older offender.
Speaker 2: It was it was a small gate. Yeah, it was
Speaker 2: a big time air, big time air. It was a
Speaker 2: small gate like a like a pedestrian. It wasn't a
Speaker 2: big gate, and so it appeared like it was shut,
Speaker 2: but it actually wasn't. It was only open about six
Speaker 2: or eight inches, and so I think he just didn't
Speaker 2: push up against it, pushed against it.
Speaker 1: Is he would have.
Speaker 3: When Clay leaves, either myself or the children are in
Speaker 3: charge of those meals, right, and most of the time
Speaker 3: it's me, but he tries to give the boys or
Speaker 3: different people responsibility for them. And we have four kids,
Speaker 3: which means in one year, those mules got out four
Speaker 3: times because each one forgot to close the gate at
Speaker 3: one point. Right, And if he's not here, we're going
Speaker 3: to get those meals alone and they'll they like drapes
Speaker 3: around town. And the problem is is that they've gained
Speaker 3: kind of a reputation during that particularly COVID, and we
Speaker 3: had all the kids here because that meant really each
Speaker 3: one of them got to make one mistake, because once
Speaker 3: you make that mistake, you don't make it again for
Speaker 3: a while, right, And each one of them did it
Speaker 3: four times, and so people were like, hey, that pretty
Speaker 3: mules out again, pretty meal, and people people started talking
Speaker 3: about these mules. People kind of developed friendships with the mules.
Speaker 3: The mules would come to houses and kind of see
Speaker 3: what they got going on in their line, and so
Speaker 3: people started. We have like a Facebook group, you know,
Speaker 3: for the whole city. People start commenting on the on
Speaker 3: the mules and then they like go down the railroad
Speaker 3: tracks together, and three of them had gotten out this
Speaker 3: last time, and I mean the city had a riot
Speaker 3: with it. They they looked like a band walking down
Speaker 3: this round.
Speaker 1: Were really proud. People of the town were proud that
Speaker 1: this was happening.
Speaker 3: So proud that they took a picture of the mules
Speaker 3: and it is now on the city community page. Are
Speaker 3: loose Mules Like? It is still there today? Yes, I
Speaker 3: look this week and I'm like, take that picture down.
Speaker 8: Get something.
Speaker 3: There's this woman whose pigs get out, And I don't
Speaker 3: understand why the picture of the police trying to catch
Speaker 3: the pigs is not on the City Facebook.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so much more, so much more trauma.
Speaker 2: Well, enough about mules, Enough about mules. Let us get
Speaker 2: to the matter at hand.
Speaker 1: This is this is serious.
Speaker 2: This is the final Crockett episode the Alamo. This is
Speaker 2: this is a big day. I've had some I've had
Speaker 2: some talk about, well, is he going to make it
Speaker 2: into the Bear Grease Hall of Fame. As a matter
Speaker 2: of fact, some of you may have asked me earlier
Speaker 2: if we were going to do that today? And I
Speaker 2: explained to someone on the Instagram the other day that
Speaker 2: inductions into the Bear Grease Hall of Fame are are
Speaker 2: kind of like a thief in the night. You don't
Speaker 2: know when they're gonna come. They just come when the
Speaker 2: time is right. So just because the series has ended
Speaker 2: and there's a potential candidate, just like any hall of fame,
Speaker 2: like the day that Michael Jordan retired, I don't think
Speaker 2: they held the meeting to see if he's going to
Speaker 2: be in the Hall of Fame, do you know, Christy.
Speaker 4: No, I don't know that.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I don't think.
Speaker 2: I think it would be projecting our intent too much
Speaker 2: to be like, oh, let's do an induction today.
Speaker 5: I think Baseball you've got to be out five years
Speaker 5: before you're eligible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we'll probably do another induction in nine No, wow,
Speaker 2: when the time is right. Should his name even come
Speaker 2: up in the conversation. That's not what this is about.
Speaker 6: So we're not doing that today.
Speaker 3: No, I thought for sure we would be.
Speaker 6: I thought for sure too. You keep talking about it foreshadowing.
Speaker 2: I figured, yes, I sometimes my plans are more in
Speaker 2: line with geologic time than human time. All of you
Speaker 2: people live in this is the era generation or induction.
Speaker 5: It's like, I don't know, here's here's here's how we're
Speaker 5: going to do a project. Says all right, man, you ready? Yep.
Speaker 5: We're gonna leave in a month and a half from
Speaker 5: the day. Got you next day? Hey man, we're gonna
Speaker 5: put that off six months. Okay, that's fine. Third day,
Speaker 5: can you be ready in the morning.
Speaker 1: It's one, okay, okay, we'll do the induction.
Speaker 6: Oh my gosh, this is like an emotional roller coas
Speaker 6: this is life.
Speaker 3: Lived with Clayton is like it is a constant emotional roller.
Speaker 2: I've got a quiz for you, okay, in your face.
Speaker 2: We're about so we're about to get into Crockett.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know it's from from the podcast.
Speaker 1: You have you have a question. Okay, let's have a question.
Speaker 3: I have a quiz. A quiz okay, okay, this pandemic.
Speaker 5: Oh thank you, Yes, well you stay with my thunder girl.
Speaker 5: But why will you carefully.
Speaker 3: Appeared between eighteen seventeen and eighteen twenty one.
Speaker 1: Why don't you tell me what that pandemic was?
Speaker 5: Well, don't you, fellow, Yeah, tell us.
Speaker 1: I've been, I've been, I've been, wife died.
Speaker 8: Cholera, caliria listened to I actually stopped and was like,
Speaker 8: I've never heard that.
Speaker 3: Like I just assumed, you.
Speaker 6: Know, he said coliria.
Speaker 5: Anyone and these get hooked on find it.
Speaker 3: And I most definitely like was a girl the nineties,
Speaker 3: and so I read a lot of Jane Austen, so
Speaker 3: I knew about like bad things that happened in you know,
Speaker 3: before we had peniciula and things like that. But but
Speaker 3: I rewound it and I was like, man, I've never
Speaker 3: heard of that disease before. And I kept going back
Speaker 3: and it's like, surely he doesn't mean colera.
Speaker 5: He does mean cora. Don't call me sure, don't.
Speaker 3: Think about it. The way I figured it out is
Speaker 3: that he actually is a good phonetic reader, like with
Speaker 3: all things.
Speaker 6: He added, that reminds me when she was little said
Speaker 6: what's what's what's cholira, what's okay?
Speaker 2: So I also took a little heat for the pronunciation
Speaker 2: of jim booie boe boe, so I.
Speaker 1: Would say bowie knife.
Speaker 3: You were getting.
Speaker 2: There was another I actually test to the integrity of
Speaker 2: my journalistic efforts that I'm not being influenced, but I'm
Speaker 2: not just listening to someone else and then just repeating
Speaker 2: what they said.
Speaker 3: That is a fantastic spin clean, that's like glass half
Speaker 3: fo y'all.
Speaker 5: The other the other one is what was the other one?
Speaker 6: The other one was the name of the oh yes,
Speaker 6: pain that I had.
Speaker 3: And the guy you were interviewing kept trying to get
Speaker 3: back down, like that's a little hot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a hard time. I heard it. I
Speaker 1: heard it.
Speaker 2: I heard it today, I could do it, and the
Speaker 2: heat of the moment, I hadn't heard it enough.
Speaker 1: So it's day la pina pinya see.
Speaker 2: And I was like, daila pena was it?
Speaker 1: I was like, I struggled.
Speaker 5: I struggled, I struggle read.
Speaker 3: You know, listen my mom us reading and having books,
Speaker 3: access to books that was super important to her. We
Speaker 3: did not have a lot of discretionary spending in our home,
Speaker 3: and she but she would sign up for books when
Speaker 3: we you know, if we bring those glastic things home,
Speaker 3: she would buy the books she really really valued. Like
Speaker 3: we did not. We were not a big toy family.
Speaker 3: We were not a gadget family. But d D would
Speaker 3: get you books and and we had a stocked library,
Speaker 3: so we read all the time. I didn't hear all
Speaker 3: the words that I saw very yeah, yeah, And so
Speaker 3: it wasn't like I was around a lot of other
Speaker 3: people who and I have story after story about when
Speaker 3: I went to.
Speaker 4: College, you would say, thinking about some of them right now, epitome.
Speaker 6: Let me see.
Speaker 3: I remember I thought I was clever because I added
Speaker 3: the word pseudo in front of something like I made
Speaker 3: up a word. Yeah, And I can't remember what the
Speaker 3: word was, but I remember it was not actually pronounced suedo.
Speaker 5: My kids if they wanted to go to that Chipotle restaurant,
Speaker 5: that's not what it is.
Speaker 3: So I I sympathized with yeah, I do too.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 2: So the Crockett series was and if you're new to
Speaker 2: the Bear Grease Render podcast what we do on the
Speaker 2: bear Gase Renders.
Speaker 1: We talked for about thirty to forty minutes about.
Speaker 6: Absolutely not random.
Speaker 1: Thanks for the Last Afternoon podcast.
Speaker 2: We discuss the very serious bear Grease podcast from the
Speaker 2: week before. This was our first four part series, Christie. Yes,
Speaker 2: I've never done a four parts, just three.
Speaker 3: And it felt like the Alimo could have stood on
Speaker 3: its own. Oh you know, it was like, you've got
Speaker 3: the three part series plus the animal exactly and you
Speaker 3: have this an actor that's in bow.
Speaker 2: And so this whole time, I've been trying to understand
Speaker 2: in my mind, get an answer for who was Crockett
Speaker 2: as a person.
Speaker 1: Who was Crockett? And was he a good guy?
Speaker 2: Was he a bad guy? Was he a funny guy?
Speaker 2: Was he not funny guy? Was he did he have
Speaker 2: good intentions? Did he have bad intentions? And clearly you
Speaker 2: can't really know all those things, but you can gather data,
Speaker 2: and there was so much information on Crockett that was
Speaker 2: not true, even much more so in his own time.
Speaker 2: There were people writing quote autobiography false autobiographies about him
Speaker 2: in his time, making him look to be a bragger
Speaker 2: of a crass. Do you remember the painter Chapman that
Speaker 2: made a point to say that Crockett was never crass
Speaker 2: when he was in his presence and he was painting him,
Speaker 2: So we would have been around him a lot in
Speaker 2: a very informal environment for hours and days, and he
Speaker 2: never heard Crockett be crass. Well, that pointed to that
Speaker 2: people had made him out to be this like craft,
Speaker 2: you know, vulgar person. And so so my question this
Speaker 2: whole series is is who is Crockett? Because it's clear
Speaker 2: that his who who he is has impacted Americas so
Speaker 2: much that we're still talking about and people know him.
Speaker 2: He has as much name recognition probably as in the
Speaker 2: upper echelon of Americans.
Speaker 6: Crockett, yep.
Speaker 2: Why he was a bear hunter. He was this Tennessee backwoodsman.
Speaker 2: He was uneducated, he was all these things. And when
Speaker 2: you really dig down into the granular things that he
Speaker 2: actually did in his life, he's a fascinating guy. But
Speaker 2: he takes a bad rap, like, for instance, with the Alamo.
Speaker 2: If you had talked to me about the Alamo before
Speaker 2: I really studied much into it, I would have heard
Speaker 2: people say, Ah, Crockett's no hero. He he didn't even
Speaker 2: he didn't even want to be in that war like
Speaker 2: he didn't even have anything to give to it. He
Speaker 2: was just looking for land and painted it like he
Speaker 2: was a bad guy for being at the Alamo, and
Speaker 2: when you look, when you see what actually happened.
Speaker 1: No, it wasn't that.
Speaker 2: His motivations where I love the country of what could
Speaker 2: be Texas and I'm going to go fight for independence. No,
Speaker 2: but his motivations were he was looking for a new life.
Speaker 2: He was looking for a better world for his family. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he wanted to be a politician in Texas.
Speaker 1: That's not a bad motivation anyway.
Speaker 2: Clarification of all these things that he was, what do
Speaker 2: y'all think, What do y'all think was after hearing four episodes,
Speaker 2: what's your take on Crockett?
Speaker 6: I think Crockett was a was a pretty normal guy
Speaker 6: with a charismatic normal guy. But I think one of
Speaker 6: the things that you know, Christy and I had a
Speaker 6: lot of discussion about his his time in Texas and
Speaker 6: whether he was there to just do what he had
Speaker 6: to do to get some land or you know what,
Speaker 6: We're what were his intentions there? And I think it
Speaker 6: comes down to the fact that the one thing that
Speaker 6: I did pick up about Crockett is he was very
Speaker 6: relational and I think you know he talks about in
Speaker 6: the letter. I can't remember if it was the letter
Speaker 6: that John Wayne wrote read or which letter, but he says,
Speaker 6: I'm I'm here with my friends.
Speaker 2: It was his letter to his daughter, and John Wayne
Speaker 2: referenced it. But I read the whole letter.
Speaker 6: And I think there's an aspect to like he believed
Speaker 6: in Texas, like he thought this is this is a
Speaker 6: place where I want my family to come. But I
Speaker 6: think I think there had to have been an aspect
Speaker 6: because you you you know, you you see characters like
Speaker 6: Steven f. Austin, you see Jim Bowie, you know they
Speaker 6: they also have reputations of being larger than life characters,
Speaker 6: and I think I think that the David Crockett probably
Speaker 6: felt at home with those guys, and when it when
Speaker 6: push came to shove, he's like, it wasn't necessarily about
Speaker 6: getting a land, it wasn't necessarily about defending Texas. It
Speaker 6: was there to to to stand with my with my
Speaker 6: brothers in the end. And so I think I think
Speaker 6: if there's if there's something good to be said about
Speaker 6: David Crockett, is that he he cared for people. He
Speaker 6: loved people, and uh, I think that's.
Speaker 2: A good I think that's good insight. I think in
Speaker 2: the moment, you would do things right for people.
Speaker 6: I don't think he would just pack up and leave
Speaker 6: those guys. You know. I'm sure he said, all right,
Speaker 6: I'm here too, I'm gonna stand with you till the end.
Speaker 1: And he feels he feels like a guy that can
Speaker 1: make a quick friend too.
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly, you know.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I took him as ving family oriented. A lot
Speaker 5: of it, A lot of the stuff. It goes back
Speaker 5: to him taking care of his family. Like when his
Speaker 5: wife died, he could a pall m which was in common,
Speaker 5: find somebody. Look, I ain't got a wife, I got
Speaker 5: these kids. Y'all need to take care of them. Deuces,
Speaker 5: I'm out. But he didn't do that when found somebody
Speaker 5: to take care of his kids, and then not only
Speaker 5: do that, he was taking care of them that that letter.
Speaker 5: The whole time I was reading listening to you read
Speaker 5: that letter, I was thinking, that's the letter I would
Speaker 5: would have wrote to my daughter to where she wouldn't
Speaker 5: worry about me even when I could. If those cats
Speaker 5: were all cleaning their rifles outside the Alamo, and I
Speaker 5: knew it was fixing to get bad. I'm not writing
Speaker 5: a letter home that says I may never see you again,
Speaker 5: and one I don't believe that's gonna happen. They're gonna
Speaker 5: have to get me because my my fight then is
Speaker 5: to get home to them, yeah, you know, and to
Speaker 5: take care of it. And that's that's what I got
Speaker 5: out of it. That he was really family oriented. And
Speaker 5: he he also had family there, his brothers, his brothers
Speaker 5: in arms, the folks that they was fixing to duke
Speaker 5: it out with that was going to be the guy
Speaker 5: left and the guy on the right of him. You know,
Speaker 5: you want to make friends quick and make family quick.
Speaker 5: Get in a foxhole of somebody and you get out
Speaker 5: of there, y'ah, you will be tight forever. And that
Speaker 5: that was what I got out of that, that he
Speaker 5: was really family oriented, or so I thought that was
Speaker 5: my perception.
Speaker 2: Well, just for the historical record, and I felt a
Speaker 2: little bit bad not including this, but it just didn't fit.
Speaker 2: He he didn't have the greatest relationship with his second wife.
Speaker 2: We don't really know the details, but we know there
Speaker 2: was a period of time when they did not live together,
Speaker 2: which which doesn't necessarily mean that they were divorced or separate. Well,
Speaker 2: but they were separated, so I see, I see exactly
Speaker 2: what you're saying. And he was dedicated to his kids
Speaker 2: and different stuff, I think, and I think he was
Speaker 2: very family oriented. I think he I think if you
Speaker 2: really got in to the you know, we had a
Speaker 2: four hour podcast basically four hours of content, and you know,
Speaker 2: you could read for fifty hours on stuff Crockett.
Speaker 1: And there's there is a fair bit.
Speaker 2: Of stuff about him not being a great husband, never
Speaker 2: being unfaithful that's never spoken of. When you were talking
Speaker 2: about Austin and Bowie Bowie Boo, I thought I was
Speaker 2: saying it.
Speaker 9: Right the eighties, yeah, Crocker, Yeah, well, you know our
Speaker 9: eighties Rocker, those guys had some legit rough stuff in
Speaker 9: their record.
Speaker 2: That would just be like a pretty pretty wild strike
Speaker 2: against you. Crockett didn't have that. Crockett was Krockott owned
Speaker 2: slaves in Tennessee at least one, so it's not he's
Speaker 2: not you know, he had that. But but he was
Speaker 2: never known as a woman is er. He was known
Speaker 2: to be faithful. Whether now you know you're going to
Speaker 2: write that in your autobiography, probably not.
Speaker 6: But Sablie else would though, So in your autobiography, true
Speaker 6: about it?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Does anyone know when the US coined we're the land
Speaker 4: of opportunity?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 4: Is that true?
Speaker 5: Natural? No?
Speaker 4: No, no, Arkansas, the US?
Speaker 5: Oh, oh, I got you.
Speaker 4: I think we're called the land of opportunity. Honestly, I
Speaker 4: think when I think about Crockett, like overall and all
Speaker 4: the stories about him, he's really always what drives him
Speaker 4: and motivates him, in my opinion, is opportunity.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Right, So you tell the story about the barrels and
Speaker 4: taking him down and it failed, but it was all
Speaker 4: about like, we got an opportunity here, and he's chasing
Speaker 4: the opportunity. You think about, you know, his politics, everything
Speaker 4: you talked about that he did and the impact from
Speaker 4: politics was all about how do you open up opportunity
Speaker 4: for someone like go into Texas? Whatever was driving him
Speaker 4: was like it feels like in every element in every
Speaker 4: story you told, what he's driven by is that there's
Speaker 4: this opportunity over here, and I think I'm gonna go
Speaker 4: after it. And I think that there's some kind of
Speaker 4: connection with why he's such a pillar inside of our history.
Speaker 4: Is it there's that connection to opportunity, what's ahead of me,
Speaker 4: what can I go grasp and whether that's for his
Speaker 4: friends or for his family. I mean, he watched it
Speaker 4: with his dad, his dad try things, fail, things, he'd
Speaker 4: have to go make up, like go work to pay
Speaker 4: off his dad's debt. And he did it willingly, like
Speaker 4: you know from the stories. But I think that was
Speaker 4: built inside of him, and there's got to be this
Speaker 4: opportunity for something else in it. It feels like that
Speaker 4: is what was driving him. Yeah, and I can connect
Speaker 4: to that, like I think, I think that's not hard
Speaker 4: to connect to and maybe an element of why he's
Speaker 4: such a pillar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in American culture, but in American Yeah, going back
Speaker 2: to your first statement, we do live in a place
Speaker 2: of incredible opportunity over the last two hundred years in
Speaker 2: this country. If you just looked at the literal options
Speaker 2: that people have had in terms of economics and where
Speaker 2: to live, and I mean, and then you looked at
Speaker 2: the landscape of the world for the last eon, this
Speaker 2: is a place of incredible opportunity. And yeah, and he
Speaker 2: he that's what he Yeah, I think that's that's probably
Speaker 2: why he represents he's such a core part of American
Speaker 2: identity early on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I kind of I think that's a little
Speaker 3: bit what makes me have a slightly more critical view
Speaker 3: of Bavy Crocket.
Speaker 1: Josh just sorry, Josh out the render.
Speaker 3: Well, well, but I think that is kind of what
Speaker 3: makes me have a little but like I'm listening to
Speaker 3: y'all describe him, and I think it's very generous. I
Speaker 3: think that, Well, I'm just saying I would love to
Speaker 3: be Davey Crockett's friend. I think he would be the
Speaker 3: person that I would if I go into a room
Speaker 3: and he's there, I want to go hang out with him.
Speaker 3: I'm going to feel most comfortable around him. I'm going
Speaker 3: to feel I'm going to enjoy hearing his stories. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't know that i'd want to live with them
Speaker 3: or rely on them like I think that that would
Speaker 3: be I'm just thinking about that, that constant pursuit of
Speaker 3: the thing around the corner, and and like the way
Speaker 3: he when he lost, how quickly he fled out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't like that.
Speaker 2: Not a characteristic of the American Frontier hashtag let Missy.
Speaker 3: Talk, I hear you, And it may may have been,
Speaker 3: it's just if I'm a to me as I listen
Speaker 3: to to him, I think it's a characteristic of populist
Speaker 3: types of people who like it. Was kind of funny
Speaker 3: to me that he found a home in Little Rock
Speaker 3: because we've read books by other authors who talked about
Speaker 3: to home are found comfort in Little Rock. Remember when
Speaker 3: he talked about the people in Arkansas, that the huge
Speaker 3: welcome they gave him because that type of politician would
Speaker 3: do really well here, that we would love populists and uh,
Speaker 3: and they do.
Speaker 1: Gershtocker hated Little Rock exactly.
Speaker 3: There's other authors who came through Little Rock around that
Speaker 3: same time period who thought it was the bane of humanity.
Speaker 3: I mean, they just thought it was a terrible gerstucker.
Speaker 3: Do you remember what how how he described it?
Speaker 2: Oh, it's it's not really comparing apples to apples because
Speaker 2: Gershtocker was detailing actually living, traveling through and living in
Speaker 2: the city. All we have from Crocketts stay here is
Speaker 2: his his welcome serpts from his speech where he's trying
Speaker 2: to make friends with these people. Yeah, he says, this
Speaker 2: is where the half hour half alligator man.
Speaker 5: He was a politician. He was a politician because he's said,
Speaker 5: you know, no finer place because he found to live
Speaker 5: the little rock. Then he went to Texas, like this.
Speaker 1: Is the in Texan.
Speaker 6: New Mexico's great, like the.
Speaker 1: Country sing.
Speaker 2: It's like all these country singers you see on Instagram
Speaker 2: every single week.
Speaker 1: It's like Spokane.
Speaker 3: But that's actually kind of the feel I get from
Speaker 3: Davy Crockett. He's gonna be whatever he needs to be
Speaker 3: in the room. He's a chameleion, doesn't have super thick skin,
Speaker 3: super strong staying power like I just I think fun
Speaker 3: guy could see why everyone would like him. I'm not
Speaker 3: sure that that's the guy I would hitch my boat too.
Speaker 4: Well, because he lacks restraint. I think that's the thing
Speaker 4: about him and any good entrepreneur.
Speaker 8: Right.
Speaker 4: I'm fascinated by entrepreneurs who will live in their college
Speaker 4: apartment ten years after they've made eight, you know, eighty
Speaker 4: million dollars. Why because they don't care about the money
Speaker 4: they are building and investing in whatever they're building in.
Speaker 4: But a good entrepreneur is gonna have restraint. They're gonna
Speaker 4: have that entrepreneurial spirit, but they're gonna also restrain themselves.
Speaker 4: Good option, bad option, opportunity, There not one to pursue.
Speaker 4: I don't think Crockett had restraint.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he.
Speaker 4: I think he just went after all of it.
Speaker 5: He did.
Speaker 2: The one thing that we don't have about Crockett is
Speaker 2: that he only lived to be forty nine years old. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we don't have the rest of the story. Like maybe
Speaker 2: the story would have been he'd have gone to Texas
Speaker 2: and he you know, has a huge place there and
Speaker 2: it's stable, and maybe financial stability would have calmed him
Speaker 2: down the last part of his life and he would
Speaker 2: have been the president of Texas and then all this
Speaker 2: stuff that happened to him before, all these failures would
Speaker 2: have just been the thing that built up to the success.
Speaker 2: So when somebody dies when they're forty nine, it's just
Speaker 2: you get in like half the story.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't disagree. And like I said, I don't
Speaker 3: think he's a bad person, Like I don't. I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't dislike him. In fact, I like him. I
Speaker 3: would want to be around them, you know, I would
Speaker 3: want to be around him. I would enjoy the pursuits
Speaker 3: and would love to you know. Once he did something
Speaker 3: and it was like say, like he's a he's a pioneer,
Speaker 3: he's a he's an Entrepreneur's.
Speaker 2: One thing that I talked with Robert Morgan about this
Speaker 2: and it just didn't make the cut. I think that
Speaker 2: a lot of who Crockett was came from him being
Speaker 2: a middle child. He was fourth or fifth of eight
Speaker 2: or nine kids, and he was the thing that glows
Speaker 2: to me in his autobiography is how much he loved
Speaker 2: validation from people, which actually made me not like him,
Speaker 2: because he spends half of his autobiography talking about Mars. Basically,
Speaker 2: he spends a lot of his autobiography talking about how
Speaker 2: people responded to him, and he was very pleased with
Speaker 2: the way that he responded to him. I could look
Speaker 2: at that and immediately go, this guy is full of himself.
Speaker 2: And that's really what Cleaves Danella trying to say was
Speaker 2: that Crockett was kind of a vain man. That's the
Speaker 2: idea that you get. And Crockett went to his own
Speaker 2: play that in New York City Broadway play about him
Speaker 2: and kind of took in the crowd, and you know
Speaker 2: when they recognized that Colonel Crockett was here.
Speaker 3: The less generous viewpoint is that that he he was
Speaker 3: jumping from place to place, not just for opportunity, but
Speaker 3: for validation for Well, that's.
Speaker 2: Where I go back to this middle child thing. This
Speaker 2: man was literally raised in abject poverty on the American frontier,
Speaker 2: which today is romantic, at the time was the end
Speaker 2: of the earth. It was not the place you wanted
Speaker 2: to be. People were enamored with the frontier. Europe wanted
Speaker 2: to hear about it. The East wanted to hear about it.
Speaker 2: But to actually live there and scratch out of living
Speaker 2: was would be like living on the edge of a
Speaker 2: war zone.
Speaker 5: It would be.
Speaker 2: And I heard my friend Steve Vanella one time described
Speaker 2: the American Frontier like living on the border of Iraq
Speaker 2: and Pakistan, I mean a contested border. And so here's
Speaker 2: this kid who pops up and by the time he's
Speaker 2: like in his late twenties, and he becomes a magistrate
Speaker 2: in his county, and all of a sudden, his neighbors
Speaker 2: start going, you know what, David, you're pretty you're pretty
Speaker 2: good guy. You have a pretty good judgment, you're a
Speaker 2: respected man. And then he runs for state representative, and
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, just like, holy cow, I could
Speaker 2: be state representative in Tennessee and I mean I see,
Speaker 2: And so he climbs that ladder and he begins to
Speaker 2: actually do work for the people. He was a good politician,
Speaker 2: especially at the state level. He did very good stuff
Speaker 2: and was an effective politician when he was a Tennessee
Speaker 2: state representative, doing really practical stuff like help He made
Speaker 2: laws that made it more difficult to get a divorce,
Speaker 2: He made laws that helped widows. He made laws that
Speaker 2: were practical laws like building navigation inside of rivers. But
Speaker 2: his main thing was always the people like him that
Speaker 2: didn't have money, that wanted to be landowners but had
Speaker 2: zero way to get there. That was his main thing
Speaker 2: was the people need this land. And so when you
Speaker 2: look at that and then again this middle child thing
Speaker 2: enjoying validation because they never got it because they weren't
Speaker 2: the oldest, they weren't the youngest.
Speaker 1: They were just lost in the middle. Some of us
Speaker 1: understand that, not Josh.
Speaker 4: He doesn't understand that, Josh, I'm a middle child.
Speaker 3: Most definitely Clay, who the baby.
Speaker 6: Josh was the firstborn.
Speaker 1: Josh is the firstborn.
Speaker 2: So when you so, basically what I'm saying is I
Speaker 2: could be negative about Crockett and think he was see
Speaker 2: this thing where he's kind of vain, but I also
Speaker 2: have a It's it's a pretty tall order to put
Speaker 2: my value system that I have today on a man
Speaker 2: that literally rose up from the ashes and became a
Speaker 2: legitimate potential presidential candidate.
Speaker 1: Did all that he did, and he did have a
Speaker 1: lot of moral fiber.
Speaker 2: It was misused in some places, but he really stood
Speaker 2: up to Andrew Jackson, the most powerful man in America,
Speaker 2: and put it in his face about the marginalized Cherokees
Speaker 2: and Native Americans that they were trying to move out.
Speaker 2: And from everything that you can inspect about his decision
Speaker 2: to oppose the Indian Removal Act of eighteen thirty, it
Speaker 2: was legitimate. Which it's like, man, I can have tip
Speaker 2: that because that was that was a very forward thinking
Speaker 2: idea and and and so he stood against that. So, man,
Speaker 2: he would have been a hoot to have been friends
Speaker 2: with you. I would have loved to have had a
Speaker 2: permanent seat at the Burgers Render.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, days he would have.
Speaker 4: You would have rivaled you. Brent.
Speaker 5: Yeah, first ballot, He's a first ballot Hall of Famer.
Speaker 6: I'm just saying, Brent's trying to Brent's trying to force
Speaker 6: a vote here.
Speaker 5: That's a coup or a coop, a coop.
Speaker 2: Coop literature unt by uh opinions of others. I would
Speaker 2: read that as a coop. Okay, we're gonna do it.
Speaker 1: We're gonna this is this is great. We're gonna do
Speaker 1: a quiz.
Speaker 5: We win.
Speaker 1: We're gonna do a quiz.
Speaker 5: I'm not using all my brain unless I got a
Speaker 5: power got prize.
Speaker 1: Oh I see, so, uh? Do I have any other
Speaker 1: thoughts on Crockett as a whole?
Speaker 6: What?
Speaker 1: Well, what about this last episode? Do you see? In general?
Speaker 2: This is one of these things where, in general people
Speaker 2: you get the idea that people in Texas are.
Speaker 1: Real worked up about whether Crockett died fighting.
Speaker 3: I was really surprised when the guy talked about the
Speaker 3: letters and death threats, and that was kind of wild
Speaker 3: in me.
Speaker 2: Well, but when you actually talk to the individuals that
Speaker 2: I talked to in Texas, they're like, we really don't
Speaker 2: care how he died.
Speaker 5: No, I wouldn't have either. Yeah, he was there, he
Speaker 5: was he he signed his name to the dotted line,
Speaker 5: and he got up there and he stayed there with
Speaker 5: the folks. He didn't run off. Yeah, I don't care
Speaker 5: if they caught him or if he died swinging like
Speaker 5: fest Parker did, or if they blew him up like
Speaker 5: they did John Lame. He was there and to me,
Speaker 5: that's all that matters, because that's all those boys that
Speaker 5: were with him.
Speaker 2: I could have made a podcast wholly on the controversy
Speaker 2: of why even fifty sixty eighty years ago Texans made
Speaker 2: a bigger deal about it, because there's all these paintings
Speaker 2: of Crockett so much national or well state identity, but
Speaker 2: at the time national identity, because Texas was a it's
Speaker 2: on republic, it's own country for about eight nine years.
Speaker 1: There was there was some deeper stuff and uh, my boy,
Speaker 1: James Crisp, he.
Speaker 2: I didn't I didn't include it because it's just not
Speaker 2: the conversation I was having. But he he brings up
Speaker 2: a strong point of He talked about how he felt
Speaker 2: like they didn't want Crockett giving up to the Mexicans
Speaker 2: as like a racial thing, like we would never we
Speaker 2: would never surrender.
Speaker 5: To like Benedict another country like Benedict Donald turned round
Speaker 5: us for the British, and.
Speaker 2: So so there therein lies something a little bit deeper,
Speaker 2: which I don't know. It was a compelling argument he had,
Speaker 2: Like I said, but I don't know that that's the
Speaker 2: full story.
Speaker 1: If you were, you might could look at it that way.
Speaker 5: So there is some.
Speaker 1: More there's some legitimate reasons to wonder about why did it?
Speaker 1: But what do y'all think?
Speaker 5: How did you?
Speaker 1: I ready to go, Brent? Is your gut?
Speaker 5: My gut is they overwhelmed him and killed him, called
Speaker 5: him and killed him.
Speaker 4: Just from the discretion You're like, executed? You think he
Speaker 4: was captured and executed? Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1: Well, the real question is, yeah, was was the de
Speaker 1: la Pina diary correct or?
Speaker 2: Because that was the whole thing day. Lapina said that
Speaker 2: even men were captured and they were executed.
Speaker 5: The lady that had the child, and then.
Speaker 1: They Dickinson the survivors.
Speaker 5: She said where he was laying was laying between two buildings,
Speaker 5: laying there with his hat beside him. To me, if
Speaker 5: they're going to execute him, they to put him out
Speaker 5: in front of right out in the middle of the
Speaker 5: street or the middle of the courtyard or the plaza
Speaker 5: or whatever it was. But she said it was between
Speaker 5: two buildings. To me, it's sounds like that's where they
Speaker 5: they run him down or caught him or surrounded him
Speaker 5: and got him right there.
Speaker 1: There's something to be said there.
Speaker 2: But here's the thing, and I'm not I'm playing Devil's
Speaker 2: advocate just for the sake of all the information, is
Speaker 2: that she never wrote down what she saw. What she
Speaker 2: said was recorded by someone else. So this woman who
Speaker 2: was one of the only female English speaking survivors who
Speaker 2: survived with her child, who was called the Alamo Baby,
Speaker 2: she's the person that wrote down what she said said,
Speaker 2: I saw Colonel Crockett laying there with this peculiar hat
Speaker 2: beside him. And she didn't say like there was a
Speaker 2: line of dead men, you know, as an execution.
Speaker 5: And that was what I'm saying. And this Santa Ana
Speaker 5: made really no reference to him other than if some
Speaker 5: guy called Crockett, right am I Right?
Speaker 1: Okay, so you think he you think he died? Fine, okay,
Speaker 1: miss Nukem Okay.
Speaker 3: I think there's two possibilities. If I have to pick one,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna pick uh. How the how the lady described
Speaker 3: him that the But.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is that you're saying she she he
Speaker 1: could have been executing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But I'm with Brent. I think that I do
Speaker 3: think the guy would have made a bigger deal of it.
Speaker 3: If he would have understood who he was, and if
Speaker 3: he didn't understand who he was, then yeah, it was
Speaker 3: it's almost like an afterthought. Yeah, this guy, y'all know
Speaker 3: everyone there is talking about named Crockett. I think it's
Speaker 3: possible he could have gotten caught up in a sneeze.
Speaker 3: It just happened forty nine, So.
Speaker 1: Way to bring it back.
Speaker 2: Oh man, Oh wait, so so you think he died
Speaker 2: in battle. You don't think he was executed. I don't,
Speaker 2: and you guys are real believers.
Speaker 1: Listen, listen. Christy comes back and says he was executed.
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell her all the reasons why it's
Speaker 2: crazy to think he was executed. So I'm playing, I
Speaker 2: am playing Devil's advocate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can take it.
Speaker 2: There are three corroborating eyewitnesses of Crockett's death by execution,
Speaker 2: why zero him dying in.
Speaker 3: Battle, and all three were on the other side, right,
Speaker 3: All three were Mexicans and they did it quite a
Speaker 3: while after, right.
Speaker 2: Well, the information well, no, the Da la Pina Diary
Speaker 2: did come out in the eighteen fifties in America. People
Speaker 2: knew about it in Mexico for a long time. It's
Speaker 2: just Crockett was brought up by Disney and apparently somebody
Speaker 2: was like, hey, we got you know, we allow Crockett died.
Speaker 3: Thing was it that didn't they say something like the
Speaker 3: font was different.
Speaker 5: Or okay, that differences.
Speaker 1: Wade, my buddy, Wade Dell. I love that guy. He's
Speaker 1: the one whose dad built a house that looked like
Speaker 1: the Alamo on floor.
Speaker 2: Wade Dealing is a cool guy. I wish he could
Speaker 2: have been here. He's a great guy. You should follow
Speaker 2: him on Instagram. Wade Deal in art.
Speaker 1: He's an illustrator and passionate about the Alim. I love it.
Speaker 1: He Wade said. He he's the one that said that.
Speaker 2: And that is an argument that the diary is true,
Speaker 2: Like it was a legitimate diary, but the section about
Speaker 2: Crockett was was forged and wasn't right. He thinks that
Speaker 2: de la Penna was in a Mexican prison and was
Speaker 2: reading newspaper articles and went back in and filled in
Speaker 2: his diary with the information he was getting from newspapers. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and so it was different. James Crisp who that guy is?
Speaker 2: He is He is probably the authority, the national expert
Speaker 2: on Crockett's death for the side of execution, and he
Speaker 2: says that the Daila Pina diary has been scrutinized to
Speaker 2: the highest degree by all the possible methods, and that
Speaker 2: it is one percent legit.
Speaker 5: That's what he believes.
Speaker 3: So now you're looking at Christy like, Christy, what are
Speaker 3: you going to say?
Speaker 4: But you just listen. But listen, Josh can Josh can
Speaker 4: validate that this is what I said yesterday. And I'll
Speaker 4: say exactly what I said yesterday. I think he was
Speaker 4: captured and executed. And I think that because I think
Speaker 4: he was he wanted to live, he wanted Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm going back to my first like, he
Speaker 4: was all about opportunity, making a way for his people,
Speaker 4: his family, and I think he was a good soldier,
Speaker 4: and so I don't think he was killed. I think
Speaker 4: he was captured. And I think he could have been
Speaker 4: captured fighting as hard as he possibly could. But that's
Speaker 4: that's I mean, maybe it's a.
Speaker 1: Romantic you think he was captured and executed.
Speaker 4: I do. And I would also say the only thing
Speaker 4: I know about the Parlay I've learned from pirates of
Speaker 4: the Caribbean, and I was offended.
Speaker 2: By the reach, So what about the Tornell decree then,
Speaker 2: Christy don't know the Tornell decree was death to all pirates.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they weren't taken prison.
Speaker 6: Yet, that's what That's what was.
Speaker 4: So we had that conversation yesterday too because it was
Speaker 4: so confusing and they rejected the parlay. So did they
Speaker 4: actually capture anyone because they told him no, prisoners kill everybody.
Speaker 4: So it's weird.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: But if I'm just if I get to choose, which
Speaker 4: I feel like this is a little bit choosier and
Speaker 4: adventure because we don't know, I'm going to choose that
Speaker 4: he was captured because he fought, like to die.
Speaker 6: I know exactly what happened. I think I think he fought.
Speaker 6: I think he ran out of ammunition. I think he
Speaker 6: probably was down to you know, hand weapons, a knife,
Speaker 6: a hatchet, whatever. I think he could have lost those.
Speaker 6: I think they probably overwhelmed him, took him and just
Speaker 6: killed him. Not not like a public execution, but like
Speaker 6: figure they caught him. I think they caught him and
Speaker 6: just killed him.
Speaker 1: So that would be.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But I think I think you're introducing a whole news
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 6: Probably I mean, I don't think it was. I don't
Speaker 6: think it was hand to hand combat that he died in.
Speaker 5: I think he was.
Speaker 6: I think they probably cashed for it and just gave him.
Speaker 5: That's what I said.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so I think I don't think. I don't think
Speaker 6: they made a big deal that he was David Crockett.
Speaker 6: He was just another guy fighting, that's where. And then
Speaker 6: somebody who knew recognized him.
Speaker 3: He had that peculiar hat on. That's what they fine.
Speaker 5: Well, and.
Speaker 2: We none of us are probably really qualified to have
Speaker 2: an opinion. Why well, if I being honest, because we
Speaker 2: have not read the dail opinion diary nor and I
Speaker 2: have not. I have not read what he actually wrote.
Speaker 2: I've not seen the pages and made a decision of
Speaker 2: was the front like the back, but also the corroborating witnesses.
Speaker 2: I would like to read those to see what they said.
Speaker 2: There's also they also said that Dailapina was very upset
Speaker 2: with Santa Anna. It was in a Mexican prison, and
Speaker 2: he had reasons to say that Crockett was executed.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't understand really all the politics of it, but
Speaker 2: it would be like, oh, of course he would have
Speaker 2: put that in his diary, this stuff like like it's
Speaker 2: very complicated, very complicated.
Speaker 1: But am I the last one?
Speaker 5: Yeah? What do you think?
Speaker 3: Sneezing?
Speaker 5: And just because we're gonna all quality.
Speaker 6: So help me, every Texan in America is going to
Speaker 6: come after you if you say he he committed suicide,
Speaker 6: having not not having having a qualified It's.
Speaker 1: Hard for me.
Speaker 5: To not.
Speaker 2: Even with the Daily Opinion diary, even with the corroborating
Speaker 2: witnesses saying they saw him executed, it's hard for me
Speaker 2: to get behind it.
Speaker 1: The execution.
Speaker 2: I think I think he died fighting, And that's not
Speaker 2: a romantic I don't really care. I don't think it's
Speaker 2: that's not me wanting to like Crockett. I just think
Speaker 2: that they were just killing a bunch of folks. And secondly,
Speaker 2: what are the chance answers that Crockett would have been
Speaker 2: one of the last guys.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's saying he could have died twenty minutes after
Speaker 5: it started.
Speaker 1: I mean there are.
Speaker 2: We do know that he lasted a really long time,
Speaker 2: and it's even possible that some of the survivors noted
Speaker 2: that he was one of the last guys around. Somehow,
Speaker 2: we we know that and the data that I escapes you. Well,
Speaker 2: I don't know that it ever hadn't, but but the
Speaker 2: fact that he would just be like the last guy alive.
Speaker 5: It made for a short movie and book. If he'd
Speaker 5: died at the beginning of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just think.
Speaker 2: But if he was captured, I think he would have
Speaker 2: done everything in his in his power to get released
Speaker 2: because there the Daiapina Diary and some others say that
Speaker 2: he tried to get out of dying, which is like
Speaker 2: a good thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course would have believed like if they said
Speaker 3: he got tried to get out of dying with like
Speaker 3: befriending them and saying wild stories and yeah, like I
Speaker 3: would think that if he were to try to get
Speaker 3: out of dying, it would be colorful and memorable. And
Speaker 3: he wasn't.
Speaker 4: He wouldn't have done it. The thing about everyone getting mad,
Speaker 4: like he wasn't doing it out of cowardice, Like you
Speaker 4: were just motivated to live. Yeah, and if you weren't
Speaker 4: shot in the battle, then you're gonna be motivated to live.
Speaker 4: Whatever that looks like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But to go against everything that I just said.
Speaker 6: To play devil's advocate on yourself, our.
Speaker 1: Boy my friend Wade Dylan.
Speaker 2: He said that he doesn't think Santa Anna would have
Speaker 2: killed Crockett if he would have known who he was,
Speaker 2: because he would have taken him back to Mexico to
Speaker 2: prove to the Mexican government of American involvement. Because here
Speaker 2: is this the most famous man in America. That Santa
Speaker 2: Anna would have saved him, taken him back.
Speaker 6: They still could have taken him back.
Speaker 2: Well, that's why I and I'd like to talk more
Speaker 2: with Wade about that. I mean, it's a pretty big
Speaker 2: deal to take a prisoner of war, especially when you've
Speaker 2: declared that everyone's going to die. And they ended up
Speaker 2: taking a flag back of the New Orleans Grays, which
Speaker 2: was a garrison of troops from New Orleans.
Speaker 5: And so.
Speaker 2: That argument I'm not entirely clear on, because that's one
Speaker 2: of his main things is he said, if they'd an
Speaker 2: known Crockett, they wouldn't have killed him. They would have
Speaker 2: taken him as a captive because he was so famous. Yeah,
Speaker 2: which I don't know.
Speaker 6: M Has everyone been to the Alamo?
Speaker 1: I have never been there.
Speaker 3: I had I don't remember being there. My family traveled
Speaker 3: a lot. When I was under three years old, I
Speaker 3: don't remember.
Speaker 6: I've been to the Alma, not in the Almo.
Speaker 1: Okay, Christy, you've been there.
Speaker 5: Yep. How do you how do you do this whole thing,
Speaker 5: this whole series about well this just this one in particular,
Speaker 5: the last episode about the Alamo, and I mentioned Phil Collins.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 3: You know what, Clay actually tried to get a hold
Speaker 3: of him. Phil's not doing well.
Speaker 5: No, I understand that as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we actually tried to get Phil Collins as a
Speaker 1: feature guest on The Baker's podcast, made a pretty legit
Speaker 1: stab with some people that knew his people.
Speaker 3: Extreme Alamo enthusiastic Phil Collins, the musician see it in
Speaker 3: the air tonight.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he donated a he had a hull. He had
Speaker 5: a huge collection of Texas and Alamos.
Speaker 2: Apparently his age, his age would have had him as
Speaker 2: a child during the Walt Disney Crockett era and uh yeah,
Speaker 2: he's a very well known Crockett Alamo die.
Speaker 3: Hard really interesting.
Speaker 6: Makes me like him even more.
Speaker 5: How's it go? I can feel it?
Speaker 1: You said he It is feeling when you feel.
Speaker 5: No symbols.
Speaker 6: That's right, it's true.
Speaker 1: M hmm.
Speaker 2: Well, this has been a great conversation. Thank you all
Speaker 2: so much for being here. Christy, it's been great to
Speaker 2: have you.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you gave some very compelling arguments that are going
Speaker 2: to rival the next invitation. Whether I'm bite your Josh Josh,
Speaker 2: thanks for.
Speaker 5: Thanks for driving rope.
Speaker 6: Yeah exactly, I'm just the chauffeur.
Speaker 1: Well, I can't wait for everyone to find out what
Speaker 1: the next series is about.
Speaker 4: Is it going to be a four part or two?
Speaker 1: On fest Parker, I doubt it to be four. I
Speaker 1: doubt it to be four, But.
Speaker 3: Phil, phil cec Isaac, C C. Hayden please close out
Speaker 3: with I can feel it in the air.
Speaker 5: Goodbye.
Speaker 1: Thanks guys,