1 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, are you guys done with physics yet? Done 2 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: with physics? I mean we're just getting started. Yeah, But 3 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: then you build that large hattern collider. Didn't that answer 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: all of your questions? Now there's always more stuff to 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: figure out? Man, What do you mean people paid ten 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: billion dollars for that and now you need more money. 7 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: That was just like the down payment on the project. 8 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: What was that a defined print? We missed that. Somehow 9 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: research is exploration. Man, They're never any guarantees about what 10 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: we're going to find. But I thought the Higgs Boson 11 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: completed the standard model. I mean it's called the standard model. 12 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: Aren't you done? It's the standard model. Now we want 13 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: to upgrade it to like the super standard model. Sounds 14 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: like you need to go work for Apple. It sounds 15 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: like we should work for f t X. Sounds like 16 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: we paid you ten billion dollars for the wrong model. 17 00:00:52,320 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 1: Can we have a hundred billion please? Hi am more 18 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: hammered cartoonist and the creator of PhD comics. Hi. I'm Daniel. 19 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: I'm a particle physicist and a professor at U C Irvine, 20 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 1: and I will never be done asking questions about the 21 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: nature of reality. But what if you get the final answer, 22 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: wouldn't you be done? Well? The lesson from that book 23 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: is that you're never done that even if you do 24 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: get the final answer. The next question is, well, why 25 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: this answer and not something else? Why do we live 26 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: in a universe where the answer is forty two and 27 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: not forty seven? What does it mean anyway? The questions multiply. 28 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 1: Maybe the ultimate answer is because that's a non answer. 29 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: It's an answer, it's not a very satisfying answer, and 30 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: in the end we're looking for explanations, not nonsense. But 31 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: welcome to our podcast. Daniel and Jorge Explained the Universe, 32 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio, in which we try 33 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: to satisfy your curiosity about the nature of the universe. 34 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: Why is the world made up of tiny little particles 35 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: frothing together to build up our reality? How far down 36 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: do you have to go before you can really understand 37 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 1: the universe at its most basic level? And is there 38 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: even a most basic level? Or is there an infinite 39 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: tower of questions all the way from galaxies down to 40 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: black holes, down to particles, down to strings, and then 41 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: down to whatever strings are made of. Yeah, it's an 42 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: incredible universe full of gigantic phenomenon like black holes and 43 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: galaxies and clusters of galaxies, but also with a lot 44 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: going on at the microscopic level, with atoms and particles 45 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,839 Speaker 1: and tiny little quantum lips, and somehow it also needs 46 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 1: to be ruled by the same rules. The same rules 47 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: supplies from the tiniest levels to the most cosmic of 48 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: all levels. It really is incredible how many layers of 49 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: zoom we have for the universe. Like we can think 50 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: about the universe on the scale of super clusters of galaxies, 51 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: objects that are hundreds of millions of light years across, 52 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: and they follow gravity. We can make predictions about how 53 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: they swirl around each other, and then you can sort 54 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: of adjust your zoom knob and think about planets and stars, 55 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: and you can adjust your zoom knob again and think 56 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: about rocks and liquids, and you can do it again, 57 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: and think about atoms, and you can do it again. 58 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: You can think about protons. You can do it again 59 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: and think about corks. And we just don't know how 60 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: many layers of zoom are there, and we don't actually 61 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: even know the answer to the question of whether they 62 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: all follow the same rules. You know, our reductionist approach 63 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: assumes that there is a basic nature to the universe 64 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: with a certain set of laws from which everything else emerges. 65 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: But that's sort of a philosophical assumption. We're not even 66 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: sure that's true. Do you find yourself, Daniel, reading a 67 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: scientific paper that you print it out on paper and 68 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: then you're trying to zoom in with your fingers? Does 69 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: that work? I do sometimes click on blue links on 70 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: printed out papers, and I'm frustrated that they don't just 71 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: like print out the right paper for me. That would 72 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: be awesome if you could click on a link on 73 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: a paper and your printer would just print the next paper. 74 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: But it is pretty amazing that we know so much 75 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: about the universe, from the neest levels to the largest 76 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: of all stages the entire universe. And I guess the hypothesis, 77 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: like you said, it, is that there's one set of 78 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: rules that somehow rules at all. That's certainly one philosophical approach. 79 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,839 Speaker 1: We call that reductionism, the idea that the tiny dominates 80 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: the huge. And it sort of makes sense to us 81 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 1: intuitively that things emerge from the smallest bits, But if 82 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: you dig down into it, there's not really a whole 83 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: lot of justification for it. I mean, why should the 84 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: small dominate the large? Why can't rules emerge at the 85 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: larger levels as well and dominate the small? Wait? Who 86 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: said the tiny dominate the large? I would say that 87 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: the particles here on Earth pretty much subject to whatever 88 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: the Sun wants to do. I think the sort of 89 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: standard philosophical approach to physics is to imagine that there 90 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: are basic rules at the smallest scale, and those rules 91 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: somehow weave themselves together to make our reality. And so 92 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: in order to understand the basic nature of the universe, 93 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: we should dig deep into the smallest particles to try 94 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: to find the smallest of the smallest of the small, 95 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: and a long way we have made a lot of progress, 96 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: a lot of encouraging results. We've understood the nature of 97 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: the periodic table based on how protons and neutrons and 98 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: electrons fit together to make all of those different atoms. 99 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 1: We've even understood how protons and neutrons are built out 100 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: of smaller pieces. So there are a lot of hints 101 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: that suggest that we should keep digging down into the 102 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 1: nature of reality to understand how the bigger things emerge. 103 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: It's kind of interesting how physics has some I've covered 104 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: both ends of the spectrum, but not the stuff in between. 105 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: Like you start on small with the particles and atoms, 106 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: but then that's when you're like, ah, that's chemistry, and 107 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: after that biology, and after that you know, political science. 108 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: We don't care about that. But then once you get 109 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: to like the size of the planet of the Solar System, 110 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: and you're like, Okay, now I'm back. Now I'm interested 111 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: in this again as a physicist will take over from 112 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 1: here until the end of the universe. Yeah, that's right. 113 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: And it's really fascinating sort of from a sociological point 114 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: of view, because for a long time, those communities, the 115 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: astrophysics community and the particle physics community were totally separate. 116 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: The people who worked on galaxies didn't they spent a 117 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: whole lot of time talking to the people who build 118 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: colliders and smashed particles together. Though they were in the 119 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: same department, they didn't really overlap very much. But more 120 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: recently those communities have come together because there is a 121 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: common mystery, for example, the mystery of dark matter. We 122 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: discovered it through astronomical observations that revealed that there's stuff 123 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: out there that is not made of our kinds of particles, 124 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 1: and now we have particle physicists searching for that dark matter. 125 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: So now we have a new kind of physicist, astro 126 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 1: particle physicists that work both on the biggest things and 127 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: the tiniest things in the universe. But you're right, skipping 128 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 1: everything in between. Yeah, I feel like you guys skip 129 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: over anything that's messy and complicated. I wonder if that 130 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: says something about your personalities. I do think that I 131 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: got into physics to avoid all the complications of chemistry 132 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: and biology. That's certainly true. We like approximating things as 133 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: simple objects, dots, spheres, circles whenever we can. Planets, right, 134 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: Planets are also just circles to you. So sons right, 135 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: basic kindergarten, She's as long as you stick with that 136 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: than your physicist. I think kindergarten is probably too advanced. 137 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't want a triangle shaped planet or anything. 138 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be interesting though, I'd be like that sounds 139 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: like chemistry to me. I'll focus on the spears. It 140 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: sounds like geometry. Forget about it exactly. We do have 141 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: a pretty interesting view of the universe now, and an 142 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: interesting model that describes how things work at the tiniest 143 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: levels and that we are hoping extends to the largest 144 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: of levels. But we do have a model about the universe, 145 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: and we've been building it over centuries. Right. Physics builds 146 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: our concepts of the universe sort of on these levels. Right. 147 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: We have like the atomic level where we think about 148 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: the elements, and then we zoom in and we think 149 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: about the nucleus, and then we zoom in and we 150 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: think about the quarks. And at the level of the 151 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: quarks and the electrons. You're right, we have a very 152 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: nice picture of all those particles, how they interact, what 153 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: they do. And that model also explains all the experiments 154 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: that we can do smashing particles together at very high 155 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: energies and all sorts of other very detailed, exhaustive experiments. 156 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: The picture we have of those particles we've been putting 157 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: together for about a hundred years. It's sort of all 158 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: clicks together very nicely. Now. Yeah, it's a pretty good 159 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: theory that describes what we can see and it works 160 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: pretty well. However, we sort of know it's not the 161 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: final theory or the ultimate theory of the universe. That's right. 162 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: Physics is never done asking questions. And even if we 163 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: have a beautiful concept which clicks together and explains experiments, 164 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: this is will always come up with ways to keep 165 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: the project going. Conveniently, you'll figure out a way to 166 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: keep your job going. You think being driven by curiosity, 167 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 1: staying up late at night wondering about the nature of 168 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: the universe is convenient. It's almost like an obsession. And 169 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: so to the end of program, we'll be asking the question, 170 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: what's the problem with the standard model? I think I 171 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: know the answer, Daniel, is it me? Am I the problem? Well, 172 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: that's one problem, yes, But maybe your main problem is 173 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: that you call it the wrong thing. I mean, you 174 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: call it the standard model. Not everyone thinks it's the 175 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: standard one. But now you're saying it's not standard. Yeah, 176 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 1: you'll be amazed to discover that we can't even actually 177 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: agree about what is the standard model. Some people think 178 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: the standard model is one thing, other people think it's 179 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 1: something else. So it turns out the standard is not 180 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: actually standard. It sounds like you guys have no standards 181 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 1: when it comes to naming things, especially models. It doesn't 182 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: surprise me that we didn't impress you on this one. 183 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: But really, maybe the question we are asking here today 184 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: is what are the problems with the standard model? Right, 185 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: because there's not just one problem with it, there are many. 186 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: There are many problems, There are unanswered questions, there are 187 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: cracks in it, there are missing pieces, there are things 188 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: we know the standard model cannot describe. All of these 189 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: things are vital hints and clues laying the path for 190 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: the next generation of physicists, who we hope will reveal 191 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: a deeper understanding into the nature of reality. So maybe 192 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: a better name would have been the model issue or 193 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 1: the sort of model, the non standard sort of model. Well, 194 00:09:57,679 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: usually were wondering how many people have thought about this 195 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: question and have wondered what are the missing pieces of 196 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: the standard model? What's wrong with it? So thank you 197 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: very much to everybody who answers these questions for this 198 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 1: segment of the podcast. We thoroughly enjoy hearing your thoughts 199 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: and we would love for everybody else to have a 200 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: chance to participate. If you would like to put your 201 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: voice on the podcast answering these questions, please write to 202 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: me two questions at Daniel and Jorge dot com. I 203 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: will set you up. So think about it for a second. 204 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: What do you think are the problems with the Standard Model. 205 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: Here's what people had to say. I feel like we're 206 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: confident about how gravity works, like on the microscope or 207 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: macroscopic level, and then we're confident about like quantum mechanics, 208 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: but we don't know how to relate the two. And 209 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: that's the problem. As I understand that the Standard Model 210 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 1: describes a proton and the nucleus and electrons, and the 211 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: problem with it is that it describes them as little 212 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: actual points in space as opposed to excitations of various 213 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 1: quantum fields. Uh. Therefore, I remember you saying actually in 214 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: the podcast that it's actually an incorrect interpretation to imagine 215 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: these little things as particles or a little discrete points 216 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: in space. Maybe the problem is that it doesn't have 217 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: anything for the dark matter and dark energy. But my 218 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: problem is that standard model has many things to remember 219 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: and it's too difficult for me. I think the main 220 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: bron with the Standard Model is that there's no room 221 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: for gravity, and I think, especially with the Higgs, it 222 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: kind of almost finalized. It snowork kind of stuck. Well. 223 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: I think that the problem with the Standard Model might 224 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: be that it is incomplete. It may not have the 225 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: particles to describe, for example, quantum gravity, so it can 226 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: be reconciled with general relativity. Well, I think the problem 227 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: with the standard model is that a people are unsure 228 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: about the missing pieces in the pattern, missing holes in 229 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: the periodic table type deal of the standard model. And 230 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: people are curious if there is on some sort of 231 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 1: emergent or if it's some sort of an emergent phenomena 232 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: of smaller particles, even smaller than those that we observe 233 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: in the standard model. All right, a lot of awesome 234 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: ideas here. There seemed to be a lot wrong with 235 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 1: the Standard model. I think this might be the first 236 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: time we can say that every single answer is correct. Wow, 237 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: that's amazing. So we're done. It turns out the listeners 238 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: are answering the questions for themselves. We have trained everybody 239 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: so well that we have worked ourselves out of a podcast. Sorry, 240 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: we have reached the singularity. Thank you everybody, it's been great. 241 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: What sounds like maybe you need some different standards or 242 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: the standard model, you know, like they have the Gold standard, 243 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: the Platinum Standard, Green Standard, the tin Can Standard. Well, 244 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: you know, I do think it's a strange name for 245 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: a theory, The Standard model it's like calling something modern physics. 246 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: You know, what we teach as modern physics these days 247 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: is physics as we knew it about a hundred years ago. 248 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: So when they started calling it modern physics, they sort 249 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: of painted themselves into a corner. And that happens every 250 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: time you give something a name like that. It's like 251 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: calling the draft of your paper final final, ready to submit. 252 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: You know, that's not the one you're going to submit. 253 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: It's going to be ready to submit virgin seven before 254 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: you actually turn that paper in. So then what do 255 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: you teach at the graduate level? Postmodern physics, deconstructive is physics, 256 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: impressionist physics. Yeah, now we have avoided giving an updated 257 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: name like supermodern physics or actually modern physics. We just 258 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: teach whatever it is we know. Now, well, I guess 259 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: there's a classical physics, so you've got to figure out 260 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: how to distinguish it from that, right, Yeah, Well, we 261 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: usually think about classical physics and quantum physics, and quantum 262 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: physics obviously more recent than classical physics. What do you 263 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: call this podcast physics? Light diet physics? No, this is 264 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: the juice man. This we are squeezing physics to extract 265 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: all of the core ideas and understanding. This is like 266 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: a shot of physics. This is like the frozen concentrate 267 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: kind of physics. This is like that protein powder man. 268 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: This will beef you up in your physics knowledge. Your 269 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: brain might not be great for your kidneys, but it 270 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: will make your mind strong. All right, Well, let's dig 271 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: into this, Daniel. I guess first of all, what is 272 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: the standard model and is it really standard? So the 273 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: standard model is our description of nature at the deepest 274 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: level that we have seen so far. You know, we 275 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: have six quarks, we have six leptons, we have forces 276 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: that tie them all together. The standard model is what 277 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: we call our theory of how all of that works. 278 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: And it really has emerged from a piece of work 279 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: that started like about a hundred and fifty years ago 280 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: with Maxwell, as he tied together electricity and magnetism into 281 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: a unified concept of electromagnetism. That was really like the 282 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: first step towards having any sort of holistic understanding of 283 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: various phenomena in physics and like one big idea. Right, 284 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: But then this sort of this was after Newton, right, 285 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: Like Newton had an idea of how forces and masses 286 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: and things interacted and worked. This is more about, like, 287 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: let's break it down and think about all the different 288 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: kinds of forces that are out there. Yeah, Newton was 289 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: thinking about how masses move and the effects of gravity, 290 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: but there are lots of other phenomena out there that 291 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: can't be explained by gravity, right, like electricity and magnets 292 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 1: and all sorts of other stuff. And Maxwell brought a 293 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: bunch of things together and put them sort of under 294 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: one umbrella. He developed sort of the standard model of electromagnetism, 295 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: and that's sort of like the founding kernel of today's 296 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: standard model. He explained how forces operate in terms of 297 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: fields and how a bunch of different forces really were 298 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: part of one bigger picture, right. And he was looking 299 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: at specifically at electrical things like you said, and magnetic things, 300 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: but not gravity. But it's still kind of using Newton's 301 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: equations to think about like, hey, if I put this 302 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: magnet in this field, how is it going to move 303 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: and why does it move? Like that? It's Newtonian in 304 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: the sense of F equals m A. He was calculating 305 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: the electric force, for example, on an electron, and you 306 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: can use F equals m A to deduce how the 307 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: electron accelerates. So it's part of mechanics in that sense, 308 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: but really he was digging deeper, was wondering just like, 309 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: what is the source of these forces? Why are there 310 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: forces in the universe? And can we explain all of 311 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: them in terms of a single idea rather than having 312 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: like a long list of different ones. And is that 313 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: where the name the standard model came in. The Standard 314 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: Model as a name didn't really appear until much much later, 315 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: like a hundred years later. So we have electromagnetism from Maxwell, 316 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: and then that was turned into a quantum theory when 317 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: we developed quantum mechanics, and it's sort of fine men 318 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: and a bunch of other folks that turned electromagnetism into 319 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: a quantum field theory, which is the more modern version 320 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: of it. That was about the nineteen fifties ish, and 321 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: he and some other folks won the Nobel Prize for that. 322 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: So then we had a quantum version of electromagnetism. But 323 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: we also have these other forces we had, like the 324 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 1: weak force, and Steve Weinberg, who won a Nobel prize, 325 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 1: figured out how to bring the weak force together with electromagnetism. 326 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 1: And that's the first time people really called this sort 327 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: of the standard model. And he wrote a paper called 328 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: a Theory of Leptons, which is what brought the weak 329 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: force together with electromagnetism. And around then is when people 330 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: started calling it the standard model. I see, I guess 331 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: what do you mean by the standard model. It's like, hey, 332 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: we have all these different ways that particles and things 333 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: can be pushed in, all these different forces that they 334 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: seem to experience. Can we put all of these forces 335 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: into like one umbrella or one you know, equation or theory, 336 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: and we can? And that's kind of standard because it 337 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: covers everything. Yeah, although of course the standard model doesn't 338 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: cover everything yet. Right, even the standard model we have 339 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: today does not describe everything, as we'll dig into in 340 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:57,199 Speaker 1: a minute. So we should think of it as like 341 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 1: sort of our current best work in progress description of 342 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: all the particles that we can't explain so far. But 343 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 1: it's sort of like, you know, we're all building a 344 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: barn together. Let's all work on the same project at 345 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: least and try to put the whole thing together into 346 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: one edifice. But it's sort of like how far we've gotten. 347 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 1: It's like working draft underscore seven. Now, when you say 348 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: that you're putting all these different forces under one theory, 349 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 1: what does that mean. Does that mean that all these 350 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: forces are somehow related to each other, they somehow interact 351 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 1: with each other, or are they separate. It's just it's 352 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: just about, you know, putting them under the same grouping. Yeah, 353 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: that's a really great question. I think there's two ideas there. 354 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: One is putting the forces in the same mathematical language, 355 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 1: like can we describe these things in terms of the 356 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 1: same basic concepts? And the basic concept we have for 357 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: the standard model are these fields that fill space and 358 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 1: carry information and momentum around. And that's the basis for 359 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: why electromagnetism can push on things, and why the weak 360 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: force can push and pull on things, and also why 361 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: the wrong nuclear force can. So we have a mathematical 362 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: sort of formula for how that happens. And the Standard 363 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: model is cool because it puts all these things sort 364 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: of in the same mathematical language. For those of you 365 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,479 Speaker 1: who know some physics and math, it means we can 366 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: describe everything as a quantum field theory just by specifying 367 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: its lagrangin, just by saying, here's where the fields are 368 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: here's how they wiggle, and also here's how they talk 369 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: to each other. That's sort of like the language we've 370 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: developed for the standard model. But there's another level to it, 371 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: which is deeper, which is that sometimes we can see 372 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: symmetries there. We can say, oh, look this piece of 373 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: the math over here and that piece of the math 374 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: over there. If you bring them together, they actually clicked 375 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: together into something simpler. So that's what we've done, for example, 376 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: with electromagnetism and the weak force, we've combined them into 377 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: one mathematical structure we called the electroweak force. So sort 378 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 1: of two levels to that. One is just writing it 379 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: in the same language, and the other is noticing patterns 380 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: and simplifying things by bringing them together. M Because I 381 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: guess it could have been that that wasn't the case, right, 382 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: It could have been that, you know, you study electromagnetism, 383 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: it's like, oh, it works in this way, and there's 384 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: this math to describe it. Then when you look at 385 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 1: how particles pull on each other through a different force, 386 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: like the strong force or the weak force, you know, 387 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: you study that and then it turns out that you 388 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: need a totally different kind of mas for that and 389 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: the tooth mass are not compatible. That could have been 390 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: the case. That could have been the case exactly, and 391 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 1: in fact, that is the case for gravity. We have 392 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 1: no way currently to bring gravity into this mathematical framework. 393 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 1: That's one of the problems we'll talk about later. And 394 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: so it hasn't succeeded in every single case, but it 395 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: has succeeded for these fundamental forces, the strong force, the 396 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: weak force, and electromagnetism. All right, so then that's the 397 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 1: standard model. It's something that describes all the known forces 398 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: except gravity, and all of the particles except a whole 399 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: bunch of parts. You make it sound like such an 400 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: amazing achievement, but really this is the accumulation of a 401 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: huge amount of knowledge and effort and ideas by so 402 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,439 Speaker 1: many smart people over decades. You know. It really does 403 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: represent an incredible side into the nature of the universe. 404 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: But of course there's a lot of work left to 405 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: be done. Yeah, just the story is left. But let's 406 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: call it the standard model. Anyways. All right, well, let's 407 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: dig into the problems that we have with this standard model. 408 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: What are the missing pieces, what are the things it 409 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 1: can't describe, and what are the things that may never describe. 410 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: But first, let's take a quick break. All right, we're 411 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 1: having a standard conversation about the standard model, which is 412 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: to say that the standard model is not so standard. 413 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: You don't sound very impressed. I am a pressed. Yeah, 414 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 1: describing you know, four percent of the universe or less 415 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: is pretty good achievement. Yea, what great would you give 416 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: somebody if they got a four percent on their test? 417 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: You're the professor, Well, why would you give one of 418 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: your students of the four percent on a physics test? Yeah? Well, 419 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: you know, I have to say, what's the curve? Think 420 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 1: about all the other alien species out there that have 421 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: been working on physics for the same amount of time, 422 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: how far have they gotten? And really you've got the 423 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: greatest on that curve. I see. You're all about lowering 424 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,640 Speaker 1: your standards. Is that what you're saying. I'm all about calibrating, man, Well, 425 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: calibrating this case, lower ring or standards. Maybe maybe it 426 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: could be that alien species out there basically figured it 427 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: all out in about twenty minutes and we've been struggling 428 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: with it for hundreds or thousands of years, depending how 429 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: you count, and we've hardly made any progress. Or maybe 430 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 1: there are aliens out there that have been working on 431 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: these problems for millions of years and having gotten as 432 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 1: far as we have, we just don't know. So then 433 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: what gray would you give us a for effort? I'd 434 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: have to go with incomplete, but that's gonna look bad 435 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: at my transcript. Then, Yeah, I don't think anybody should 436 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: hire us until we have a sensor whether we're good 437 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 1: at this or not. Are the human race all right? Well, 438 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: let's talk about the problems with the standard model, which 439 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: I guess is the shining achievement of physics. Right. It 440 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: described most of the forces that we know about, the 441 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: strong force, the electoral weak force, and it describes most 442 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: of the particles that we know about, including all of 443 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: the ones that were made out of it. Yeah, and 444 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: before we reveal all the chinks in its armor, let's 445 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: just spend a moment to appreciate it, because it means 446 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: something kind of cool about the human experience. It means 447 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: that basically everything you interact with, every event in your life, 448 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: everything that happens to you, is mostly explainable, Like there 449 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: isn't really any magic left in your experience of the universe. 450 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: Every experience you have, we can mostly explain in terms 451 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: of the fundamental physics that we do so far understand, 452 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: you know, lightning and stomach aches and all sorts of things. 453 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 1: We think we mostly understand the basic physics of that, 454 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: even if we can't always make it practical. We can't 455 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 1: predict the path of hurricanes that we don't think that. 456 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: There are mysteries in physics that actually affect your everyday life. 457 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,199 Speaker 1: And that's a new experience for humanity, right, most humans 458 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: over the years have lived in a world that was 459 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: fundamentally not understood by them. Yeah, it's pretty amazing what 460 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: how much we can describe now although we were sort 461 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: of they're all already kind of like a hundred years ago, right, 462 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,360 Speaker 1: Like stomach as we could have predicted the hundred years ago. 463 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: You don't need quantum physics for that. Yeah, I'm not 464 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: sure if doctors even now understand the stomaching. Maybe I 465 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: shouldn't give them too much credit. But you know, there 466 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 1: were lots of interesting puzzles about the way the world 467 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 1: worked and the particles that were out there that we 468 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: hadn't figured out yet until we brought them together into 469 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: this picture of the standard model. But now we mostly 470 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,239 Speaker 1: understand the world that is around us. So as we 471 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,719 Speaker 1: dig deeper, of course, there are lots of holes and 472 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,360 Speaker 1: questions that come up. All right, well, let's dig into 473 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: some of these holes and and missing pieces of the 474 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: standard model. And let's start with the big one, the 475 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: heaviest one, the most massive one. Gravity. Gravity really is 476 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 1: the most missing piece of the standard model. Like all 477 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: the forces that we do experience in our everyday life, 478 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 1: the strong force, the weak force, electromagnetism, gravity is the 479 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: one that we cannot describe yet using the Standard Model, 480 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: which is in the end, a quantum mechanical description of 481 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: the nature of the universe. But gravity we have a 482 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 1: classical theory. We have general relativity, which ignores quantum mechanics 483 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: and describe spaces a bending place where particles can move smoothly. Yeah. 484 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: I know we've talked a lot in the on the 485 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: podcast about the problems with marrying quantum mechanics and gravity. 486 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: But maybe it gives a sense of why that's so 487 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: Hardlet like, I can calculate the gravity between the Sun 488 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 1: and the Earth. Why can't I calculate the gravity or 489 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,679 Speaker 1: gravitational force between you know, an electron and a proton. Well, 490 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: if you knew exactly where the electron and the proton were, 491 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: then you could calculate them. You know the distance, you 492 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: know the masses, all that stuff, But you can write 493 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,360 Speaker 1: it's possible to know the location of a particle. Electrons 494 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: are quantum objects, right, so they don't always have a 495 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: specific location. They have like a probability of being here 496 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: in a probability of being there. And one question about 497 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: gravity is like, well, how does that work? Is the 498 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 1: gravity of the electron also probabilistic, like the space bend 499 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 1: a little bit where the electron might be and a 500 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: little bit somewhere else with the electron might be. The 501 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: orders gravity collapse the electron's wave function, requiring it to 502 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: be in one place, so that it sort of it 503 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: knows how to bend space the right amount and exactly where. 504 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: I guess. Maybe the question is like, we can calculate 505 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: the force between an electron and a proton, right, and 506 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: as I understand it, it involves like exchanging a photon. 507 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 1: But when you can calculate that force and what happens 508 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: to those two particles, why can I do the same 509 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: with gravity? Think? If I have an electron a proton, 510 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: why can't I just calculate how much force they put 511 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: on each other. So if you're thinking about the electromagnetic 512 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: force between a proton and an electron, you're right. You 513 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: can calculate that force and you can think about in 514 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 1: terms of photons. And that's a quantum mechanical theory that 515 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 1: allows the electron to have a probability being here and 516 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: probability being there. That's all cool because electromagnetism is a 517 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 1: quantum theory. It allows all of that. It treats its 518 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: objects as quantum objects. But gravity, so far is not. 519 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 1: Gravity is a classical theory, and in order to know 520 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: how much space bends, you have to know where something 521 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: is and you have to know it's trajectory through space 522 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: and time, and that's not possible for quantum objects. So 523 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 1: people have tried what you suggested, like, well, let's build 524 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: a quantum theory of gravity and think about exchanging little 525 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: particles for those forces. They call them gravitons, and so 526 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: people certainly have worked on that. They have tried to 527 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 1: add gravity to the standard model to make it a 528 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: quantum theory. The problem is those calculations don't work, like, 529 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: we don't know how to do it yet. Gravity is 530 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: a different kind of force than electromagnetism is it requires 531 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: a slightly different sort of mathematical construction to describe it, 532 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: and those constructions sort of fail. When we try to 533 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: do those calculations, we get crazy numbers, we get infinities 534 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: and negative infinities. It just sort of hasn't worked out yet. 535 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: The crucial way that gravity is different is that it 536 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: couples to itself. Like a photon doesn't feel other photons 537 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 1: because photons only feel things that have electric charges and 538 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: photons don't have electric charges. But gravity feels everything because 539 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 1: gravity feels everything with energy, and so it's sort of 540 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: a much crazier system to try to describe using this 541 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: onto mechanical apparatus, and so far it just hasn't worked. 542 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: You mean, like maybe the idea of a graviton itself 543 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: feels gravity like gravity, graviton has energy, and therefore it 544 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: also affects the particles through its gravity exactly whereas a 545 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: photon doesn't feel the electromagnetic force, and so it's just 546 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: simpler to do those calculations. That doesn't mean it's impossible 547 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 1: to have a quantum theory of gravity, just means it's 548 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 1: going to need sort of new mathematical tools that we 549 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: just sort of haven't invented yet. The tools that we 550 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: have used so far haven't worked. Can you just invent 551 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 1: the graviton that doesn't feel its own gravity. You can 552 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: do that, And that's sort of actually the first step 553 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: in an approximate theory of gravity, you know, like a 554 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: perturbative theory. We say, let's try to describe part of 555 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: gravity and assume that the graviton has negligible effect on 556 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: the gravitational shape. Why can it have zero effect? Well, 557 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: that would be inconsistent with what we think about general 558 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: relativity and how gravity works. General relativity says that space 559 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: bends in response to energy density, and so if gravitons 560 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: carry that energy, then they should also bend space. Well, 561 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: maybe just don't apply general relativity at the quantum level. Yeah, 562 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: some people are building new theories of gravity. The tricky 563 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: thing is that we have a lot of measurements of 564 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: gravity already. So if you develop a new theory of gravity, 565 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: it has to also describe everything we've observed so far 566 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: about how planets orbit each other, and about black holes 567 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: and all these things that happened at the big scale, 568 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: you know, the scale of planets and stars and galaxies. 569 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: General relativity is past all of these tests with flying colors. 570 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: So if you develop a new theory has to reproduce 571 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: all of those calculations as well, and so far you 572 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: haven't been able to do that. So far, we haven't 573 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: been able to do that. All of our mathematical attempts 574 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: has sort of blown up in our hands. Sounds like 575 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: a heavy situation there, But let's get to some of 576 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: the other things missing in the standard model, because some 577 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: of them are pretty big. For example, the universe is 578 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: not covered by the Standard model. Yeah, the Standard Model 579 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: is really good at describing the kind of stuff that 580 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: we are made out of, atoms and molecules and quirks 581 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: and leptons and all these kinds of things. But in 582 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: the law asked a few decades, we've discovered that that's 583 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,959 Speaker 1: not what most of the universe is made out of. 584 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: We know that if you take a random chunk of 585 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,479 Speaker 1: space like a cubic light year, and you ask how 586 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: much energy is in there, it turns out that the 587 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: energy devoted to quarks and leptons and all the kind 588 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: of things that we do understand and they are described 589 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: by the Standard Model is only about five percent of 590 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: the energy in that cube, and then another like twenty 591 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: five percent is due to dark matter. So weird new 592 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,479 Speaker 1: kind of matter that we know is out there. We 593 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: can see it's gravity and all sorts of other effects. 594 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: We just don't know what it is and what kind 595 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: of particle it's made out of, except that we're sure 596 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,959 Speaker 1: it's not made of our kinds of particles, or at 597 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: least we know or we think it's not made out 598 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: of the particles that are currently tallied up by the 599 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: Standard Model. It's possible that is, it is made of 600 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 1: a particle, a different kind of particle or something that 601 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: then you could add to the Standard Model. That's right, 602 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: that would be the new Standard Model, Standard Model Underscore 603 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: Final or Update version two or whatever. But none of 604 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: the particles that are only in the Standard Model, the quarks, 605 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: the electrons and nuance, the towns of new trinos, none 606 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: of those can explain what dark matter is. And that's 607 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: a whole, really fascinating topic. People can dig into a 608 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: bunch of podcast episodes about why isn't dark matter neutrinos 609 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: or how do we know dark matter is not some 610 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: weird clump of quarks floating out there or primordial black 611 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: holes or something like that. But we're pretty sure that 612 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: dark matter is not made out of anything that's currently 613 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: described in the Standard Model, which means it's something new, 614 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: something weird, And you're right, if we figured out what 615 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: that was, we would have to add it to the 616 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: Standard Model, right. But it could also be the case 617 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: that maybe dark matter is made out of something that 618 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: is not described by the mathematics of the Standard Model, right, 619 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: just like gravity could be something not even compatible with 620 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: the Standard Model. Absolutely, And it's a sort of extraordinary 621 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: bit of extrapolation to even assume that it might be right, 622 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: because we've looked at a tiny fraction of the stuff 623 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: in the universe, and we developed mathematics that works to 624 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: describe mostly that, and then we imagine that, oh, maybe 625 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: the rest of it also, you know, even though we 626 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: know the rest of it is different and important and 627 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: fundamental ways from the bit we have studied. So it's 628 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: sort of a leap to say, maybe we can use 629 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: the same tools to describe the rest of the universe. 630 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 1: Maybe right, but also maybe not. It might be that 631 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: dark matters not made of particles at all. Their theories, 632 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: a matter that don't have a sort of scale that 633 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: as you zoom in, always look the same. Right, These 634 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: things are called unparticles. There's all sorts of other crazy 635 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: bonkers ideas that are not particle based dark matter. If 636 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: you ask me, that's what I would love for us 637 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: to discover because instead of just like adding a new 638 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: piece to the standard model and building on quantum field theory, 639 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: it would point to us a new way that the 640 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: universe operates, a completely different sort of foundational construct that 641 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: can describe reality. That would be pretty exciting. But also 642 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: the standard model doesn't describe dark energy, which is like 643 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: sixties seven of the universe. Right, two thirds of the 644 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: universe is also unexplainable by the standard model. Yeah, and 645 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: when we say two thirds again, we're thinking about a 646 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: sort of fictional chunk of the universe and accounting for 647 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: the action of the energy. Right, we don't know how 648 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: big the universe is, and we say two thirds of 649 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: the universe, some people might be confused about what are 650 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: you talking about? The universe is infinite. Two thirds is 651 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: also infinite. So that's why we think about in terms 652 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: of energy density, Like take a chunk of the universe 653 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,719 Speaker 1: and ask how much energy is in that chunk, and 654 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: how is it apportioned. Well, two thirds of the energy 655 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: of any chunk of the universe we think is devoted 656 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: to this thing called dark energy, as you say, And 657 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: dark energy is just our description of the fact that 658 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: the universe is expanding, and that expansion is accelerating. That 659 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: every year, space is getting bigger, and it's getting bigger 660 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: faster every year, and that requires some energy. And as 661 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: space gets bigger, it makes new space, and that new 662 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: space has dark energy in it. And so dark energy 663 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: is a sort of runaway effect that keeps creating more 664 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: of itself, which creates more of itself to create more 665 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: of itself. And so actually the dark energy fraction in 666 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: the universe is growing. It's now the dominant fraction, and 667 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 1: unless something changes, we think it's going to forever dominate 668 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: our destiny. It seems like maybe the problem with the 669 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: standard model is that it doesn't talk about space itself right, 670 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: like it talks about particles and quantum fields, and it 671 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 1: assumes a fixed, non changing space. But there's all these 672 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,760 Speaker 1: other theories like gravity and dark energy and the expansion 673 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: of the universe that assumes that space itself is changing. 674 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: Whereas in the Standard model it's it's it's almost like 675 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: a constant or an assumption. Yeah, I wouldn't say that 676 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: standard model doesn't talk about space, but you're right, it 677 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,839 Speaker 1: certainly makes certain very crisp assumptions about space that are 678 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: in conflict with what we know to be true. Right. Usually, 679 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,359 Speaker 1: quantum field theory operates on what we call like a 680 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: flat backdrop. We assume that space exists, and that it 681 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: always has existed, right, and that it always will exist. 682 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: The basic way the quantum field theory thinks about space 683 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 1: and time is not to think about them together the 684 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: way relativity does, but to think about them separately. And 685 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: space is something that exists in time is just how 686 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,760 Speaker 1: things change in space, and so it thinks about space 687 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: and time quite separately. And turning there's a equation can 688 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: describe the universe all the way back infinitely in time 689 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: and all the way forwards infinitely in time. So quantum 690 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: field theory is consistent with the universe always having existed 691 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 1: and always existing into the future. Whereas when we look 692 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: at space, as you say, we see that it's changing 693 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: and that it's expanding, And if you think back far 694 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: enough in time, it's consistent with some crazy event that 695 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: we don't understand that might even be the beginning of space. 696 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 1: So you're right, there basic questions about the Standard model's 697 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: treatment of space itself that we don't know how to answer. 698 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: And that's really connected to this question of general relativity, 699 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 1: because general relativity is basically a description of what space is, 700 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: but we don't know how to unify that with our 701 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: understanding of quantum mechanics. Is there even a room in 702 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: the Standard Model for expanding space, Like, is there even 703 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: a lever you can pull there or a mechanism that 704 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: allows space to expand In the Standard Model. You can 705 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,240 Speaker 1: do quantum field theory on curved space or on expanding space, 706 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: but what we don't know how to do is how 707 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: to have those fields themselves create that curved space, which 708 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: is what you sort of need for quantum gravity. So 709 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: it's possible to do quantum field theory on other funny 710 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 1: spaces or other dimensions or expanding spaces, that it gets 711 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: very very complicated. Can it even then explain the Big Bang? 712 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: Or not at all? So quantum field theory can't explain 713 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,919 Speaker 1: the Big Bang as like a singularity, right, Quantum field 714 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: theory can describe what happens in space after that. But 715 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: it certainly cannot accommodate a singularity. Quantum mechanics that phoors 716 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: a singularity, right, because there's a fuzziness to information into 717 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,280 Speaker 1: the universe. You can zoom everything down into a tiny, 718 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 1: dense little dot. You can't even have a singularity at 719 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: the heart of a black hole according to quantum mechanics. 720 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: So absolutely not. Our description of quantum field theory is 721 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: not consistent with a singularity at all. And so that's 722 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: why when we talk about the Big Bang, we talk 723 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 1: all the way back to very very early universe, and 724 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,719 Speaker 1: we say, well, before that, we need some picture of 725 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 1: quantum gravity. Quantum effects and gravitational effects are both important, 726 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 1: and we just don't have that theory, and so we 727 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,720 Speaker 1: don't even know how to think about what happened before 728 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: that time. Well, sort of sounds like maybe quantum mechanics 729 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: and the stand model will never maybe even be able 730 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 1: to explain why space expanded so fast during the Big Bang, right, 731 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: why the Big Bang happened at all? Yeah, the standard 732 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: model as we know it has no explanation for that 733 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: and may never write if it can handle space expanding 734 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: or ever explain space expanding. Yeah, well, we imagine that 735 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: there's some future theory, some quantum theory of gravity, which 736 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,320 Speaker 1: can explain that. And then when you take the version 737 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 1: of that theory and ask what happens when space is 738 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,720 Speaker 1: mostly flat and mostly cold, then you get the Standard 739 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,720 Speaker 1: model sort of the same way that, like Newton's theory, 740 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 1: is a limiting case of Einstein's theory. Right. Einstein's theory 741 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,760 Speaker 1: of relativity, we think, is a more accurate description of space. 742 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: But when gravity is weak and there aren't black holes nearby, 743 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,200 Speaker 1: it reverts to Newton's theory, right, And so we think 744 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: that probably quantum gravity is a super version of the 745 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:48,800 Speaker 1: Standard model, or the other way around, that the standard 746 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: model is like a limiting case of some deeper theory 747 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: of quantum gravity. All right, well, those are the two 748 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 1: big gaping holes in the Standard model gravity and also 749 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: dark matter and dark energy. But the holes don't stop there. 750 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 1: There are still other gaps in the Standard Model to 751 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: bring everything from antimatter to neutrinos. And so let's dig 752 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 1: into these mysteries. But first let's take another quick break. 753 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,239 Speaker 1: All right, we're talking about the I guess it's not 754 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:32,400 Speaker 1: so standard model or the standard lead incomplete model the 755 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,400 Speaker 1: current best theory of physics so far that we're pretty 756 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,239 Speaker 1: sure is wrong. It needs to be updated asap. That's 757 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 1: your standard star. No, it's wrong, but we will press on. 758 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,720 Speaker 1: Standard really just means work in progress, like every theory 759 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,880 Speaker 1: in science is always a work in progress. Oh, I 760 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 1: see you're using that definition of the word standard, like 761 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: the current model. It's really just the current model. It's 762 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 1: just the latest update Standard Model version six, as downloaded 763 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: onto your phone last night by Apple. We're still on data, 764 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 1: is that what you're saying, or and like we're always 765 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: beta testing science. All right, Well, as we heard, there 766 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,279 Speaker 1: are still big things missing about the Standard Model, which 767 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,360 Speaker 1: is exciting to physicists, And there are some big things missing, 768 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,439 Speaker 1: but there are also other things that maybe people don't 769 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: think about are missing from the Standard Model. Even if 770 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: there weren't questions about dark matter and gravity just zooming 771 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: in on the particles that we do know about, there 772 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:28,840 Speaker 1: are lots of questions that we don't have answers to. 773 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: So you can look at the Standard Model and you 774 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 1: can say, like, why is it this way not some 775 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,799 Speaker 1: other way? And also does it actually explain everything we see? 776 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: One of the deepest mysteries that remain in explaining the 777 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: universe that we have is why it seems to be 778 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: made of matter and not anti matter. In the Standard Model, 779 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 1: we have all the particles we've been talking about, but 780 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: there's also a shadow particle for every single one. Every 781 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: quirk has an antiquark, every electron has an anti electron, 782 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 1: every tow has an anti tow. There's this beautiful symmetry 783 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,360 Speaker 1: to all the particles. They have their anti part nticles. 784 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: And yet when we look out into the universe, we 785 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: see that I'm made of matter. You're made of matter. 786 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: Our solar systems made of matter, our galaxies made of matter. 787 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,719 Speaker 1: We think the nearby galaxies are made of matter. It 788 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,759 Speaker 1: seems like the universe is basically matter. So if the 789 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,319 Speaker 1: theory of particles is symmetric, how do we get this 790 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,360 Speaker 1: asymmetry in our universe? Where does that come from? This 791 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,479 Speaker 1: sort of the big question. I think what you're saying 792 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,359 Speaker 1: is that the Standard Model does have antimatter in it right, 793 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,719 Speaker 1: like anti matter itself. It's not a mystery like that, 794 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 1: It's actually part of the Standard Model. Every particle in 795 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,399 Speaker 1: the model has its antimatter particle. But I think maybe 796 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 1: what you're saying is that the model predicts that is, 797 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: there should be the same amounts of matter and anti matter, 798 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:45,759 Speaker 1: right like, according to the theory, there's nothing in it 799 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,320 Speaker 1: that says, oh, clearly matter is the best matter. Yeah, 800 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: and there's no reason we call one kind of matter 801 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: matter the other kind of antimatter except that we are 802 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: made of one kind, right, There really is no difference 803 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 1: between matter and antimatter. No, No, if you're not with us, 804 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,239 Speaker 1: your anti us. If you're not made of us, you're 805 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,080 Speaker 1: made of the anti us. Yeah. If you're not, if 806 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 1: you're not part of us, you're not us. There you go. 807 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:13,800 Speaker 1: If you're not particles of us. Yeah, that's the interesting mystery. 808 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,360 Speaker 1: And you imagine, for example, the very beginning of the universe. 809 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 1: We think probably matter and antimatter were made at the 810 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: same rates, because why not, Because the theory of particles 811 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 1: is basically symmetric with respectum matter and antimatter. There's antimatter 812 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: quantum fields for every matter quantum field. So then the 813 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 1: mystery is, how do you go from a universe that 814 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,240 Speaker 1: has the same amount of matter and antimatter to our universe, 815 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,320 Speaker 1: which is almost entirely matter. And that's the unanswered question. 816 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,360 Speaker 1: We're looking for asymmetries. We're looking for ways the Standard 817 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 1: model prefers matter to antimatter, or like processes forces something 818 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,360 Speaker 1: which produces matter preferentially over antimatter, and we have not 819 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,960 Speaker 1: explained that yet. Well, there are some hints in the 820 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 1: Standard model, right, Like, according to the Standard Model, there 821 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,399 Speaker 1: is a slight little preference for one kind of matter, 822 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: isn't there There are some process the seas that do 823 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,920 Speaker 1: seem to prefer matter to antimatter in the Standard model. Yes, 824 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 1: in the Standard Model there are some. Right, it's not 825 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,840 Speaker 1: perfectly symmetric, but these are pretty small. They're not nearly 826 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: big enough to explain the asymmetry that we see. It's 827 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:15,960 Speaker 1: a hint because it's a crack in the perfect symmetry. 828 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 1: It says, maybe the universe prefers matter to antimatter, but 829 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,319 Speaker 1: the effects that we have discovered cannot explain what we 830 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,800 Speaker 1: see in the universe. Yet we're missing like a huge 831 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,320 Speaker 1: chunk of it. Like most of the asymmetry is not explained. 832 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 1: But I guess if there was an effect that was 833 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,719 Speaker 1: so large that it preferred a matter over antimatter to 834 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 1: the degree that we see in the universe today, wouldn't 835 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,719 Speaker 1: they be, you know, kind of a big obvious hole 836 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,319 Speaker 1: in the theory, or is it possible that what it 837 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: prefers matter or antimatter is external to the standard model 838 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 1: like gravity. Yeah, that's exactly the question. And we're looking 839 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 1: for those holes in the theory, and people are doing 840 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,359 Speaker 1: searches for new processes that prefer matter to antimatter, and 841 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,960 Speaker 1: recently they have some interesting hints for discoveries at CERN. 842 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 1: These are called the flavor anomalies, where like quarks change 843 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:04,520 Speaker 1: from one flavor to another, and they tend to do 844 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,759 Speaker 1: it to matter a little bit more often than antimatter. 845 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,120 Speaker 1: And people are wondering if this is like the thread 846 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,320 Speaker 1: we're going to pull on that reveals the universe's preference 847 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,160 Speaker 1: for matter or antimatter. But nothing is certain yet. But 848 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,560 Speaker 1: you're also right, it could be something else, something external 849 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: to the standard model. It could be that the universe 850 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,280 Speaker 1: wasn't created symmetrically with matter and antimatter at the beginning 851 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,240 Speaker 1: because of some theory of quantum gravity that prefers matter 852 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,719 Speaker 1: to antimatter. We just don't know. It's a huge question. Mark. Well, 853 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,960 Speaker 1: I am pro finding the answer to that. I'm not 854 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 1: anti that. Now, what are some of the other things 855 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,160 Speaker 1: that are missing from the standard model. There are also 856 00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,400 Speaker 1: just a lot of missing explanations for the patterns that 857 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: we see. Like if you look at the patterns of 858 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,920 Speaker 1: the particles, you see that there's a four basic particles, 859 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,400 Speaker 1: the up, the down, and the electron and the neutrino. 860 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,480 Speaker 1: But each one has two copies, right, The up has 861 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,800 Speaker 1: the charm and the top, the electron has the muon 862 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,719 Speaker 1: and the tow And this is sort of nice consistency 863 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,800 Speaker 1: there where each of the four based particles has exactly 864 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:02,520 Speaker 1: two copies. But the question, of course is why, right, 865 00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 1: why should particles have any copies? You know, there's like 866 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,440 Speaker 1: matter and antimatters, the particles have like a single reflection. 867 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,759 Speaker 1: Why do these particles have these weird, heavier copies and 868 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,239 Speaker 1: why two of them? That's totally unexplained. It's just sort 869 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,480 Speaker 1: of like what we see, and to me, it's like 870 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 1: a hint. Is suggests that there's something happening underneath out 871 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,800 Speaker 1: of which this emerges, but we just don't understand anything 872 00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 1: about what that is. We do we know for sure 873 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,200 Speaker 1: there are only two or three generations of particles, or 874 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,120 Speaker 1: is that just what we've found, or it can find 875 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 1: with our colliders. Is it possible that there's an infinite 876 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 1: number of generations we just can never get to them 877 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,400 Speaker 1: because they require too much energy. It's a really cool question. 878 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,680 Speaker 1: We're pretty sure that there are only three kinds of 879 00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,160 Speaker 1: each of these particles, and the reason actually is the 880 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,000 Speaker 1: Higgs boson, because the Higgs boson interacts with all of 881 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,799 Speaker 1: these particles. So when we make the Higgs boson at 882 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,400 Speaker 1: the large Hagon collider, we sort of make it out 883 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 1: of these particles. We throw corks and gluons together and 884 00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,160 Speaker 1: make a sort of a frothing mass of energy g 885 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,040 Speaker 1: and the Higgs boson pops out of that frothing mass. 886 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,120 Speaker 1: And it does so because it interacts with all of 887 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,960 Speaker 1: those particles. And so the rate at which interacts with 888 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,440 Speaker 1: those particles determines how often it's made. And if there 889 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,520 Speaker 1: were more of these kinds of particles, if there was 890 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,080 Speaker 1: like a super top cork, or like a heavier bottom 891 00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,279 Speaker 1: cork than the theory predicts, the Higgs boson would be 892 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:21,799 Speaker 1: made much more often. So by measuring how often the 893 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,160 Speaker 1: Higgs boson is made in our collisions, we can actually 894 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,840 Speaker 1: measure how many generations of particles there are. Because the 895 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,400 Speaker 1: number of generations determines how often we make the Higgs boson. 896 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,080 Speaker 1: So we're really pretty sure there are three. But we 897 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,799 Speaker 1: don't know is why there are three. What could there 898 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:42,400 Speaker 1: be maybe uh, super higgs boson or heavier higgs boson, 899 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,880 Speaker 1: or another generation of Higgs bosons that we don't know about. 900 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,440 Speaker 1: There definitely could be We did a whole podcast about 901 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,719 Speaker 1: other Higgs bosons and it might be there. And there 902 00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,080 Speaker 1: might also be other kinds of corks. They just would 903 00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,280 Speaker 1: be different, like they don't talk to our Higgs boson 904 00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: or they're different in some way. So precisely, the statement 905 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,400 Speaker 1: we can make is these kinds of corks, the quirks 906 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,600 Speaker 1: we have found so far, we're pretty sure there are 907 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,080 Speaker 1: only three of them. But there could be other kinds 908 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:09,160 Speaker 1: of weird corks that don't talk to the Higgs the 909 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,279 Speaker 1: same way and do other stuff that are out there. 910 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,120 Speaker 1: And there's no limit on how many other weird heavy 911 00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,879 Speaker 1: particles could exist that we just haven't found yet. MM. 912 00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:18,640 Speaker 1: But I think what you're saying is if you look 913 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:20,239 Speaker 1: at the math, if you look at the math of 914 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,399 Speaker 1: the Standard model, it doesn't prevent you from having more 915 00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,360 Speaker 1: generations or have your cousins of the electron. It's just 916 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:30,000 Speaker 1: that experimentally, you haven't seen any or seen any evidence 917 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,480 Speaker 1: that more could be there. Yeah, directly, we haven't found 918 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,520 Speaker 1: a name. We've looked, and indirectly we have some constraints 919 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:38,560 Speaker 1: because we think if they exist, they would influence how 920 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,280 Speaker 1: often the Higgs boson is made, the large Hagon collier. 921 00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:45,239 Speaker 1: But mathematically there's no limit, that's right. Mathematically there's no limit. Yeah, 922 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,000 Speaker 1: there's no reason the Standard model couldn't have four or 923 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:52,879 Speaker 1: seven generations or ninety thousand generations and particles. Mathematically there's 924 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,080 Speaker 1: no reason why not. But it's an interesting clue, and 925 00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,719 Speaker 1: people wonder, like, what does it mean that there are 926 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,680 Speaker 1: three is the universe? Like three? Ish? Is this just 927 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,759 Speaker 1: what it is? Or is there a reason for it? All? Right? 928 00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,239 Speaker 1: What else is unexplained? Another really fund mystery is neutrinos. Right, 929 00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,120 Speaker 1: Neutrinos are part of this basic list, and we know 930 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,440 Speaker 1: they exist and they're out there and that there are 931 00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:16,560 Speaker 1: three kinds of them, but we really don't understand their masses. 932 00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,160 Speaker 1: We know that they do have mass, and those masses 933 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,279 Speaker 1: are very very small, but our theory, the Standard model, 934 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,840 Speaker 1: actually doesn't allow them to have any mass. The theory 935 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,080 Speaker 1: requires that they have zero mass, and we go out 936 00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:28,719 Speaker 1: there and we measure them and we see that they 937 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,359 Speaker 1: do have mass. And so this is actually where people 938 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,680 Speaker 1: disagree about what is the standard model. The sort of official, 939 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:38,399 Speaker 1: official standard model has neutrinos with no mass, and now 940 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:40,439 Speaker 1: people have like a new version of the standard model 941 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,760 Speaker 1: where they've incorporated neutrino mass, and some people say that's 942 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:45,840 Speaker 1: the standard model. Wait, what do you mean the standard 943 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,399 Speaker 1: model doesn't allow the neutrino to have mass. What does 944 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,800 Speaker 1: that mean? Well, this sort of old school standard model 945 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,319 Speaker 1: has a bunch of rules for what these particles can do. 946 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,120 Speaker 1: Like you have to keep track of the number of electrons. 947 00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,719 Speaker 1: You can't just create or destroy electrons. You have to 948 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,040 Speaker 1: keep track of them and conserve number of electrons in 949 00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,560 Speaker 1: the universe. It's like a hard and fast rule in 950 00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,720 Speaker 1: the old school standard model. But if the electron neutrino 951 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:08,840 Speaker 1: has a little bit of mass, then it can do 952 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,080 Speaker 1: something tricky to sort of break this accounting. We had 953 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,239 Speaker 1: a whole podcast episode recently about sterile neutrinos and and 954 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff, and so it breaks that 955 00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,960 Speaker 1: rule in the old school standard model. So if neutrinos 956 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:20,880 Speaker 1: have mass, and that hard and fast rule, and the 957 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,759 Speaker 1: old school standard model doesn't really hold up anymore as 958 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,799 Speaker 1: a hard and fast rule. It's like approximate now. So 959 00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:28,640 Speaker 1: we have that sort of an updated version of the 960 00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,320 Speaker 1: standard model where you give neutrinos mass and it breaks 961 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:33,680 Speaker 1: these rules a little bit. Some people consider that the 962 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,680 Speaker 1: standard model, and some people consider that beyond the standard model. 963 00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,320 Speaker 1: What happens if you do allow mass in the standard 964 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:44,120 Speaker 1: model for neutrinos? Are you're saying, other contradictions pop up? Yeah, 965 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:45,960 Speaker 1: we don't really understand how that works yet. There's a 966 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,560 Speaker 1: bunch of experiments to try to measure those neutrino masses 967 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,000 Speaker 1: and they don't agree with each other. There's a question 968 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,600 Speaker 1: about are there actually just three neutrinos or is there 969 00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,520 Speaker 1: like a sly fourth neutrino out there, the sterile neutrino 970 00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,160 Speaker 1: that's been messing up a few experiments that are out there. 971 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:02,440 Speaker 1: We don't understand if neutrinos get mass the same way 972 00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,520 Speaker 1: the other particles do through the Higgs boson, or if 973 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,200 Speaker 1: they're a really weird particle, like maybe they are their 974 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:12,239 Speaker 1: own anti particle particle called a maorona. Particle which would 975 00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:14,360 Speaker 1: get mass in a completely different way, not from the 976 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,440 Speaker 1: Higgs boson. So neutrinos are so of the next frontier, 977 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,399 Speaker 1: like a part of the standard model that we've only 978 00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,600 Speaker 1: really just begun to explore and really haven't nailed down 979 00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:24,719 Speaker 1: very well. Interesting. Well, we don't have a lot of 980 00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,920 Speaker 1: time left, but there are still some interesting things missing 981 00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,320 Speaker 1: from the standard model. Maybe you want to step of 982 00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,640 Speaker 1: studies pretty quick. There's so many things we couldn't even 983 00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:34,840 Speaker 1: cover them all. One of my favorites is a question 984 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,920 Speaker 1: of whether there are particles out there that have just 985 00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:41,759 Speaker 1: a north or just a south magnetic charge, Like there 986 00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,000 Speaker 1: are particles out there that have a positive or negative 987 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,080 Speaker 1: electric charge, but so far, every particle we've seen in 988 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:50,000 Speaker 1: the universe has a balanced magnetic charge, like you see 989 00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:53,439 Speaker 1: particles with north poles and south poles. You never see 990 00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,480 Speaker 1: particles with just a north pole or just a south pole. 991 00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,560 Speaker 1: That would be called a magnetic monopole. And actually the 992 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,120 Speaker 1: theory prefers that they do exist, Like if they do 993 00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,520 Speaker 1: exist and the the theory is more symmetric, it's more balanced 994 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:08,960 Speaker 1: than if they don't exist. So it's kind of a 995 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,040 Speaker 1: mystery why we don't see them in the universe, and 996 00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,000 Speaker 1: a lot of physicists believes that they must exist somewhere 997 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,960 Speaker 1: out there in the universe, but we've never found one. 998 00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,520 Speaker 1: But probably the deepest question that's open and remaining for 999 00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,400 Speaker 1: the standard model is what's next. We look at all 1000 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,040 Speaker 1: these particles and we wonder, like, is this the base 1001 00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:30,480 Speaker 1: description of reality? It can't possibly be there all so 1002 00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,680 Speaker 1: many weird patterns we don't understand. And you know, a 1003 00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:34,960 Speaker 1: hundred years ago we looked at the periodic table, we 1004 00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,400 Speaker 1: saw these weird patterns we didn't understand. Turns out all 1005 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,160 Speaker 1: those patterns were clues that said, oh, there's something deeper 1006 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:43,520 Speaker 1: going on. All these patterns are just complexity that arise 1007 00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,759 Speaker 1: from how the little bits that things are made out 1008 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,839 Speaker 1: of fit together. So now we're looking at the periodic table, 1009 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,520 Speaker 1: the fundamental particles, and we're seeing all these patterns that 1010 00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,200 Speaker 1: we don't understand, trying to explain them and wondering if 1011 00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:56,640 Speaker 1: they're made out of some smaller bits that we haven't 1012 00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,439 Speaker 1: yet seen, and maybe those bits are made of smaller bits, 1013 00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:01,239 Speaker 1: and those bit are made of smaller bits, and maybe 1014 00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,919 Speaker 1: this like a hundred levels between us and the base 1015 00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:07,080 Speaker 1: layer of reality, or maybe just one or two, or 1016 00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,040 Speaker 1: maybe there's no bottom. Yeah, I guess it's kind of 1017 00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,719 Speaker 1: tricky because at some level you have the standard model 1018 00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,680 Speaker 1: and you're seeing these patterns and maybe hinted something deeper. 1019 00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:17,160 Speaker 1: But at the same time you also know that the 1020 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,440 Speaker 1: standard model is not correct, right, Like you know they 1021 00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,600 Speaker 1: has hu mongous gaps in it and lots of things missing. 1022 00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:25,440 Speaker 1: Kind of makes you wonder how much you should read 1023 00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:29,040 Speaker 1: into these patterns, or whether even exploring those patterns is 1024 00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:30,680 Speaker 1: going to be useful. Yeah, we don't know what the 1025 00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,120 Speaker 1: best way forward is. When you read the history of physics, 1026 00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,480 Speaker 1: it's written to sound kind of linear, like we did this, 1027 00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:36,880 Speaker 1: and then we figure that out, and then we figure 1028 00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:38,839 Speaker 1: this other thing out. But remember that at the same time, 1029 00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,160 Speaker 1: there were lots of other branches. People were exploring other 1030 00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,880 Speaker 1: crazy ideas which made sense to them at the time 1031 00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:46,520 Speaker 1: when they were at the forefront of human knowledge. But 1032 00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,960 Speaker 1: we mostly erased those other zigzags and those other branches 1033 00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,560 Speaker 1: from our history of physics to give you a description 1034 00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,239 Speaker 1: of sort of the theory we ended up at. But 1035 00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:57,839 Speaker 1: now we're here at the forefront of human knowledge right now, 1036 00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,560 Speaker 1: we just don't know what is the right way forward. 1037 00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:02,880 Speaker 1: Should it be quantum gravity, Should it be anti matters, 1038 00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,360 Speaker 1: Should it be magnetic monopoles? Should it be cracking open 1039 00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:08,560 Speaker 1: the electron to see what's inside. We don't know what's 1040 00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,000 Speaker 1: going to yield some inside, so we're all just sort 1041 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:13,640 Speaker 1: of like being curious and exploring and hoping to figure 1042 00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,239 Speaker 1: something out. So the basic answer is that we've given 1043 00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:20,040 Speaker 1: you all this money and still wide open question. It's 1044 00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,960 Speaker 1: still a wide open question, which makes for a wonderful, 1045 00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:26,239 Speaker 1: mysterious universe that we get to keep talking about on 1046 00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,640 Speaker 1: the podcast. It sounds like maybe the answer to getting 1047 00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:32,120 Speaker 1: are great as a species in the giant physics exam 1048 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:36,480 Speaker 1: of the universe is to ask for an extension. Daniel, 1049 00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,960 Speaker 1: what's your policy and given students extensions. I'm pretty lenient. Actually, yeah, 1050 00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:41,919 Speaker 1: I'm pretty lenient. What if they come to you say, hey, 1051 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,040 Speaker 1: instead of doing physics, I've been spending all my money 1052 00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:51,040 Speaker 1: making Marvel movies and creating Netflix. Can I get an extension? Yeah? Sure? 1053 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,600 Speaker 1: Can I get some free tickets? I see you're open 1054 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:59,160 Speaker 1: to being bribed as a greater No. I think people 1055 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,360 Speaker 1: should go out there and explore their passions and discover 1056 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,000 Speaker 1: who they are, and everybody can contribute in some way 1057 00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,160 Speaker 1: to this incredible journey we call life and the exploration 1058 00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,600 Speaker 1: of the universe. It sounds like a standard answer, Danny, Well, 1059 00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,680 Speaker 1: stay tuned as we keep exploring the universe and discovering 1060 00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,000 Speaker 1: more about what we know and when we don't know 1061 00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,080 Speaker 1: about this amazing cosmos. We hope you enjoyed that. Thanks 1062 00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:30,920 Speaker 1: for joining us, See you next time. Thanks for listening, 1063 00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:33,640 Speaker 1: and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe is 1064 00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:37,160 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast from 1065 00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,960 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 1066 00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:43,440 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.