WEBVTT - Rob Thomas 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:13.520 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob West's podcast. My guest 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:17.760 today is one and only Rob top Rob. You're wearing 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:20.239 a Bob Dylan T shirt. You're a big Dylan fan. 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:23.520 Uh yeah, of course. Man, if you're a songwriter and 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:25.560 you're not, then you've missed something along the way. 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:30.480 So what are your favorite Dylan songs? 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:36.960 You know, besides I think obviously you know, like Blowing 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:41.159 in the Wind or that kind of seminal first period, 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:44.960 you know, Like I was really really got into the 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:48.440 Times of Change record, you know, like the Yeah, I 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:50.960 thought that there was a really great return to form. 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:52.639 I thought it was just it was it was kind 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:56.480 of unique for me to like find something that you know, 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:59.240 like I don't when you stumble on something new, you 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:01.240 stumble on something and when you have something that you 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:03.680 grew up with, you kind of always just love the 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:06.360 things that you loved about them to begin with, you know. 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:08.720 But I find that there was certain artist Springsteen being 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:10.640 one of those, like when he went on that unbelievably 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:13.319 prolific tear you know, after nine to eleven from the 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:15.840 Rising on, like, you know, it's kind of great when 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:17.959 you when you see that happen and you realize that 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:19.760 you're just as excited about the new stuff as you 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.640 were about some of the older stuff. Now I've seen 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:24.920 him live and it's not my favorite thing in the world. 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:28.760 I got all said, I'm the same way, so uh, 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:34.760 I won't go anymore. But uh okay, believe it at that. 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:37.880 So do you keep up on new music? 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:41.480 Not in the way that I used to. I mean, 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:44.080 I it's easy to blame the medium, but I think, 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:45.880 you know, like I do a song of the day 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:48.800 every day, and so in a way that that tasked 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.840 me to every day search on Spotify and listen till 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.280 I find something either that you know or I mean, 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:55.680 I try and do it, like if I'm driving in 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:58.680 the car and something excites me and make a note 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:01.120 for that to be my song of the day. But 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:03.400 I don't. I mean, I can't remember the last time 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:05.800 that I got excited about a brand new album and 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:08.440 wore that record out like I used to do, you 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:13.000 know where I like, actually listen to something, seek out 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:15.360 the record and play it from beginning to end, over 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:18.720 and over and over. I think I've just become a 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:22.080 victim to streaming, and I've become a victim to song 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:24.600 by song by song. You know, I now like my 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:26.320 music like I like my people. It's just on a 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:28.040 case by case, song by song base. 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:31.880 So how do you get turned on to new stuff? 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:36.160 Well, you know, it's not as important to me, I guess, 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:38.200 to get turned on the new stuff, I think. I 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.600 just you know, I'm a big fan of film, a 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:44.960 big fan of television. I think that placement now has 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:47.240 been better than it's ever been before. So I know 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:49.480 that I find a lot of music that I love 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:53.040 through film and through television. It just just in different, 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:55.520 you know, in sync situations like the amount of times 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:57.640 and my wife and I are sitting on the couch 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:00.400 watching something and then we hold up our with a 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:02.160 SoundHound and we both do it at the same time. Like, 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:05.399 but what is that that happened? That happens quite a bit, 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:09.359 I think, you know, as you I've read an article 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:11.720 somewhere that said that, you know, and I don't know 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:13.320 if it was like thirty or forty, but there's a 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:19.160 certain point in your getting older where you stop like 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.560 really taking in new things in that you know, like 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.280 you there's a certain point where culturally you like what 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:27.800 you liked up until this point, and that's the kind 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:29.440 of thing that always really excites you, and not that 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:31.919 a couple of them don't get in, but it I 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.160 don't retain it in that way, Like like I remember 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:36.800 there's a band called The Beaches, and I keep forgetting 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:38.200 like until I see them, and I'm like, oh, that's right, 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:39.520 I love the Beaches. I need to go check out 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:41.400 that record. And I never fucking check out that record. 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:43.000 I just keep telling them my isealf, Oh I got 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:44.840 to go check out that record. But I probably know 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:47.320 like four songs, but I'm like, oh, I'm a fan 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:50.120 of the Beaches, which means I'm a fan of those 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:50.760 four songs. 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:54.920 Okay, But you know the difference, it's very different when 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:57.480 you were coming up and you had your initial success. 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:01.600 Today there's a tsunami of prout, like it's almost you know, 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:05.520 every day there's one hundred thousand tracks on Spotify, And 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:07.680 I know the bit you're talking about age, but it's 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:12.440 like incomprehensible. But let's go back a step. So what 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:14.200 streaming television do you watch? 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:22.919 Oh, I mean it's purely script scripted drama, comedy. You know, 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:24.920 Like I'm just a huge fan of pretty much any 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.040 new thing that comes out my wife and I are, 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:30.320 you know, Like my favorite thing now is just when 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:32.360 she tells me that she doesn't want to watch something 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:35.039 because I'm running out of shit for myself to watch alone. 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:37.560 So like she doesn't like something, I'm like, oh, thank god, 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:39.479 I got something, you know, to watch when I'm working 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.680 out or something to watch when I'm alone. But I mean, 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:45.320 I'm a try I'll watch anything except for reality TV, 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.520 Like I can't do anything. Like I'm just not a 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.560 big fan of reality TV, And oddly I'm not really 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.800 all my friends are big fans of biopicks. I'm more 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:01.039 of a fan of like like retail you know, I 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:03.200 really appreciate those a lot more. But I'm not as 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:05.080 big a fan of documentaries as I used to be. 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:08.160 Not really sure why. I just find that when I 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:10.599 see them, I'm incredibly turned on by them, and I 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:14.680 really love them, But I just don't get myself motivated 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:16.960 to like sit down and go I've got two hours. 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:19.039 I want to watch this, you know. But then like 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.240 my wife and I watched that I forget the name 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:23.680 of it, but that that documentary about the volcano, you know, 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:26.000 the studio that was just under the volcano. And like 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:29.359 that brought back such a flood of memories because you know, 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.880 we were we came out of this era after that era, 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:35.440 you know, I mean they weren't throwing that much money, 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:37.159 but they were still throwing money at us. So like 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:40.720 we could still make a record and that could mean 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:43.160 renting out the entire top floor of the Hit Factory 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:45.039 and some of the bottom floor and have like a 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.080 factory going just for your album, making that record and 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.200 you know, travel away somewhere to get away for an 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:52.520 experience to make a record, like and be able to 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:55.120 do that and not realizing that we might be one 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:57.839 of the last kind of musical generations that gets to 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:01.520 experience making music in that way. So when I saw that, 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:05.360 I was like, ah, maybe I don't like Maybe I 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:11.799 don't like seeing myself in these documentaries. You know, maybe 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:17.800 I maybe it's just too much longing. Sometimes I'm not 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.320 a competitive person, but I think creatively i'm competitive. So 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:22.960 I think sometimes I see somebody and they're just so 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:27.039 fucking talented that it just makes me feel immediately less. So, 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:30.039 you know, and so I think that sometimes I have 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:32.039 a hard time. I just kind of want to be 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:35.000 in my own lane doing my thing and be inspired 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:37.240 by somebody else's art. 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:42.200 Okay, there are other people you might feel inadequate relative to. 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.240 But how much of it is what you mentioned earlier, 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:47.560 that the business has changed and you don't get all 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.640 that money thrown it at you. And is it lamenting 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.360 those days or is it just when you see somebody 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:54.800 say they're fucking great? 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.840 Yeah? No, I mean, you know, I was really fortunate 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:02.520 in the career, especially at the very beginning, that really 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:04.640 bought me the ticket to be on the ride for 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:08.040 as long as I've been on it. But it's never 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.680 I mean, coming up, we were we were very very 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:13.440 careful about decisions that we made in things that we 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:16.000 wanted to do, and we've left a lot of money 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.400 on the table. It's never really been the deciding motivating factor. 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:23.680 I just when I hear a great like when I 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.800 hear a great song, I get I go through this 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:28.880 whole problem and my wife can see it happening in 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:30.680 my eyes and she's just like, ah, fuck, not again. 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:33.600 Like I'll go through a whole process and luckily it 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:37.720 usually ends with me creating something, but it starts with 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:40.160 this feeling of like how does he do that? Like 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:42.160 I'm still amazed at how I can listen to a 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:47.000 new song and when I break it down, eventually I 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:48.920 see it. I see it. I see there's a verse, 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:50.920 and I see there's a chorus, and I know the chords, 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.640 and I see the makeup of it. And it's not magic. 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.200 But I love the fact that when I first hear it, 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:58.720 it sounds like voodoo. It sounds like something that I 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.280 don't know, and it's realize it's because I understand the 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:04.960 mechanics of something very very well, but still didn't see 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:06.440 how they got there. It's like if I were a 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:10.000 magician going to see a really great magician and still 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:13.280 getting fooled by the trick. And that's what it feels 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:15.960 like sometimes when I hear something and I just go, oh, 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:18.800 I've never been a good magician. I'm still fucking pulling 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:20.880 rabbits out of a hat over here, you know, I'm 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:23.080 still doing my verse in my chorus, and they're doing 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:24.600 something amazing over here. You know. 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:27.640 Can you give us any concrete examples of songs? 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.920 I mean, that's probably not. I mean, I'm the worst. 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:38.120 I feel like I feel like Nick Hornby and in 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:40.200 a high fidelity where like I'm tasked to put down 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.160 the top five list, and it never, like nothing ever 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:43.880 comes to mind as soon as you know, as soon 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:45.079 as I. 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:47.719 Hate that too, but it's just you know, you hear 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:50.400 certain songs sometimes that as a memory. Okay, So if 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:53.400 you're not watching biopics or you're watching series, or you're 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:54.720 watching movies. 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:59.240 I'm watching both. I don't know. I think we've all 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.720 we all got to a certain place where it feels 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.080 like a momentous task to sit down and watch an 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:07.240 hour and a half or two hour film, but we'll 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.080 stream four hours of five hours of something without thinking 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:14.200 twice about it. Like I I've actually caught myself now 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:16.520 on the other side of it, like watching a movie 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:18.960 and going, you know, that movie was pretty good, but 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:20.640 it would have been better if it had been a series, 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:22.360 Like they really could have got in there, they really 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:26.480 could have dug into it. So like I'm and I'm 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:28.800 still I'm so it's there's so much that I've got 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:31.240 a sticky note that my wife and I refer to 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:33.440 of like Okay, let's see where we're at, Like what 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:35.520 you know, what are we watching right now? Like I 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.520 think right now it's all about dark matter on HBO, 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:44.080 which is on Max I guess, which is fucking phenomenal. 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:47.160 And uh, but then we just went through and just 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.040 went back were watching all of the Star Wars movies again, 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:54.720 like or at least the main nine, right, And because 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:57.679 my wife was so down on the prequels for so long, 0:09:57.720 --> 0:09:59.600 and I keep trying to explain to her that maybe 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.040 there's shit, there's an argument to be had about the 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:07.079 actual movies themselves, and are they overseegied and underacted or 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:11.040 overacted maybe, but the story is so similar to everything 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:15.319 else that comes after it that going back now watching 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:17.600 those prequels, like, she got emotional at the end of it, 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:19.920 because these are characters that are part of our life, 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:22.960 you know, and so that's been a fun thing for 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:23.400 us to do. 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:26.960 Okay, what's the best Star Wars movie? 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:31.880 Let me think, I mean, for me, it's got to 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:33.280 be a new Hope. But I mean, I think that's 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:35.200 just because it was the thing that everything hinged on, 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:40.240 you know, like it comes with so much emotional baggage 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.960 with it that and it just means so much. I mean, 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:47.680 all the way to my fucking Star Wars bed sheets 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.600 that I had, you know, probably way past the ages 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:52.160 that I should have had Star Wars bedsheets. 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:55.800 Okay, Star Wars came out in seventy seven, you were 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:57.720 a little kid. Did you see it when it came out. 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:00.440 I don't think so. My wife and I were trying it. 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:04.040 We don't remember when we first saw Star Wars, and 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:07.680 we were having that exact conversation. I remember my sister 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:10.040 and I were growing up in South Carolina. My sister 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:13.400 has we have different fathers, and I remember her father 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:16.720 picking her up, she's five years older, and her father 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:18.920 picking her up to go see Star Wars in the 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:23.120 theater and being like like crying. My mother had to 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:29.319 console me because I couldn't go. And I remember that succinctly, 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:32.880 But I don't remember when I first saw I remember 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:38.040 going to see Empire Strikes Back, and I remember going 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:44.800 to see Jedi, and I think even more, I remember 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:49.240 leaving the theater after those movies and you're walking out 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:52.720 and the credits are playing, and they're playing that iconic score, 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:56.160 that John Williams score, and you're a kid, and you 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:58.800 walk down the aisle of the theater to leave feeling 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.440 like a fucking Jedi, you know, like there was just 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:03.840 it was it was it stayed with you in such 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:08.760 a way. And uh, I've honestly, in everything that I do, 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:13.440 have tried to find a way to maintain that, you know, 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:15.880 Like how do I try and stay time? Like how 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:18.600 do I take away the cynicism that comes with age 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:22.280 and knowing things and just kind of give yourself over 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.040 to what it's supposed to be. And I mean I 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:27.880 fail at it miserably, but God, that was the best 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:28.400 feeling ever. 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:31.599 So what else is on the list. 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.480 Of all time? Like, I mean, it jumps around my 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:43.360 One of my favorite movies of all time is iHeart 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:50.560 Huckabees David Russell film, But also so is Curproco. I mean, 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.640 like my wife every time she comes in the house, 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:55.960 if Circac goes on, it's fucking on, and it stays on. 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:59.880 It drives her insane and then she just gets some 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.240 out of my like shitty Patino And personally you get 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:04.920 too in the back, You get to in the back, 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:07.120 like I mean, it's it's just it was, It's just 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:09.760 I don't know if there's anything cooler in the world 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:13.440 than al Pacino during Cercroco period. You know, it's a 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.840 maybe dog day afternoon, okay. 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:18.559 But on the list that you have what you're gonna 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:22.319 watch on television? How do you establish that list? 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:25.480 Hold on, you know what I'm gonna show, I'm gonna 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:30.440 figure out right now, like right now, so I've even 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:32.000 got it. So I've even got it down. And the 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:35.080 ones that that are gone away, but but they're gonna 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:39.640 come back, things like The Morning Show and the Umbrella Academy, Uh, Fargo, 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:44.360 if they're gonna if that's gonna come back, Deadlock which 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.240 is really great. Australian showed Showgun, which I think is 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.320 kind of done. It's not coming back. Fallout was really great. 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.079 But I mean then we'll watch like Abbod Elementary and 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:57.920 Welcome to Wrexham. I just started. We just started with 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.760 The Big Cigar, which I think is pretty great. So, 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:03.440 I mean it's pretty all over the place. I don't 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:05.640 think we adhere to like, you know, any one kind 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:05.960 of thing. 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:16.160 And so what will your wife not watch that you 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:17.040 watch yourself? 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:21.000 Okay, well, like we just started The Sympathizer with with 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.600 Robert Downey Jr. And she watched one episode and was like, okay, 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:28.040 this is yours. I don't know why she loves Robert 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:30.640 Downey Junior more than me, but that was it. 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.680 So is this something where you watch something every night 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:35.320 or once a week or how much? 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:37.880 No, pretty much every night. I mean every night that 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:41.640 we're home. You know, we're we have we we have 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.360 the blessing and the curse. Like if I'm gone, I'm gone. 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.440 But when I'm home, I'm I'm very present. And when 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.680 we have long stretches of time where we're you know, 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.760 so we have a routine, and that routine always involves 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:54.720 let's either make some dinner or have some dinner. We're 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:56.760 gonna sit down and we're gonna watch something, you know, 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.120 something that we're really into. And then on the weekends, 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:01.440 this movie time is using when we set aside time 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:03.280 to actually watch films. 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:05.360 But you always do it at home. You don't go 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:06.359 out to the theater. 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:09.520 Not as much. We you know, here, we live in Bedford, 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:11.600 and right around the corner in Bedford Village there's this 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:16.240 beautiful place called the Bedford it's a Bedford Cinema, but 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:19.400 it's also the Clive Davis Center for Performing Arts. 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:22.479 This is bed for New York in the Bedford. 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:25.240 New York right right, And they have this beautiful place, 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.040 you know, and you can eat food there and it's great. 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:29.280 You know, it's wine and food and they have directors 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.720 come and they have like events centered around the films. 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.760 But they'll also have classic movies Tuesdays and Thursdays, like 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:36.800 they just had the Big Chill last week. I think 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.320 they have escaped from New York coming up next week, 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:44.720 and so we're more likely to go see those movies. 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:48.080 But like, I mean, there's a line of like, you know, 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:49.840 when the new Batman movie comes out, I got to 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:51.560 see that in a theater. When you know, there's certain 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:54.520 movies that the director all the time and effort that 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.600 goes into making it the spectacle that it is, deserves 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.560 that kind of format. I just don't need it for 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:02.960 a lot of the small independent films that I'm watching, 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:05.720 they'll they'll be fine at home, you know. And also 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.400 I just I'm good and old man. I just it 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:10.520 takes a lot for me to get I joked that, 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:14.080 you know, I moved to Bedford from the city, and 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:15.600 I didn't want to move too far because I was like, 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:16.640 you know, I want to be able to go in 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:18.360 out of the city all the time because I'm you know, 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:21.720 that's me man. I'm a social butterfly, and like I 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:25.600 joke now that it's It's like if John Lennon and 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:30.960 Jesus were playing at the Beacon, I would still need 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:33.520 to make sure, like, well, I mean, am I getting 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:35.600 driven in? Do I have to find parking? Like? Do I? 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:35.800 You know? 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:37.640 Do I am I good? You know? Do I have 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:38.840 good tickets? Like? I don't know? 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:42.880 But if they're playing at the Capitol, you'll go. 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:45.480 Oh the Capitol for sure. I mean that place is awesome. 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:50.360 I was playing the Capitol and in the dressing room, 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.520 the artist dressing room, there's a picture, live picture of 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.960 Carlos back in like the early seventies, like sixties playing 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.800 and I sent him the picture and he remembered it immediately, 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.600 remember that tour. He remember that show, and he's like, oh, 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:04.080 the Capitol. He didn't even know it was. He didn't 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:05.080 know it was back open again. 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:08.320 So a lot of great shows there before it closed 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.160 and Peter Shapiro reopened it. But you grew up in 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:13.560 the South. What's it like living in the North. 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.639 Now, Well, I've been here longer than I've been anywhere, 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:18.800 because I've been here. I'm fifty two and I've been 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:24.040 here for twenty six years. In New York so I've like, 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.240 I don't really know remember, but I think that the 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:31.840 difference is you're never not from the South, if that 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:36.520 makes sense. Like there are certain sensibilities that I grew 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:38.320 up with and I have because I had a Southern mother, 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:40.560 because I grew up in the South, and those things 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:44.720 don't change, and I find there's a yokeleness around me 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:48.480 in that, like like when I go to a party 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:50.800 or I go somewhere like you know, and I'm I 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.240 go to some you know, great premiere and you go 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:56.120 to the after party and it's very swanky and it's 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.400 a lot of very fanous, but I'm actually like, I'm 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:01.480 really glad to meet you, and I'm really glad to 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:05.600 be there, And that comes across, as you know, as 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.720 kind of like yogel, for lack of a better word, 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:13.320 very and very uncool. But I think so you like, 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:15.440 I don't remember what it's like to be in the South, 0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.080 and I'm sure it's much different twenty six years later 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.120 than it was then, some some better and some worse. 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.000 But uh, but I but I'll never forget what it's 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.800 like to be from the South. And as soon as 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:28.080 I go back home and I get a little buzz 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:30.960 on the accents keeps back out because when my wife 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.879 first met me, it was thick. I mean it was like, 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:36.960 you know, not big. I was like, you know, had 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.280 it really deep and uh and she loved it because 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:41.720 she was a girl from New York. She didn't you know, 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:44.240 didn't really spend a lot of time with Southern guys. 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:47.520 So I think it helped took her in. But eventually 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:52.000 it went away also because I hated it kept I 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:55.399 hated that it came through in my singing voice, like 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.840 my first record, all deeply in the first record, a 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:02.520 little bit in the second record, everything had the Southern 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:06.399 twinge to it. You know, it was cold house harm 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:09.679 mariink like. It was just it was this southernness that 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:13.760 was in there, and I like, I don't know how 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.159 to be someone else. So it took, you know, years 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.000 of traveling around the world and being in New York 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:20.760 and living there for it to kind of work its 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.800 way out. I guess into like whatever my accent is now, 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:27.720 which is just kind of like a non specific Northeastern 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:28.280 kind of a thing. 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:31.679 So you didn't consciously try to get rid of it, 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:32.520 It just evolved. 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:35.080 Yeah, I mean, I don't think I could have. If 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:37.720 you listen record by record, you can hear it fading away, 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:39.359 you know, little by little. 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:43.040 So how'd you meet your wife. 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:50.000 At a strip club? No, she was. She was on vacation 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:55.359 in Montreal with a friend. She had never heard of 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:57.320 our band, but her we only had one song out. 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:01.040 So we had the joke between us that when we met, 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:05.080 I was more famous than she thought that I was, 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:09.480 but less famous than I thought that I was. And 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:12.800 because to her, she was this worldly New Yorker who 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.400 had lived, she'd modeled all over the world. She'd seen 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.119 things that I can only imagine. And to her, I 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:20.280 was this guy who had a song on the radio. 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:23.399 She was like, big fucking deal. And to me, I 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:25.640 was this guy that had a song on the fucking radio. 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:29.600 It was a big fucking deal. And so she showed 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.800 up that I was immediately her friend somehow. 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.480 A little bit slower. Where were you? How did you 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:38.399 end up really encountering her? 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.600 I met the Metropolis, this kind of like larger sized club, 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:49.600 smaller sized theater in Montreal. Her friend, what I want 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:53.520 to say, was kind of like being very flirty with 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:57.520 our guitar tech. And so the guitar tech brought her 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:01.760 back after the show, and so whor my now wife 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:05.399 was in tow they're just upset, like she wanted to 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:09.440 fucking go because, in her words, girls like her don't 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:12.560 hang out after the shows. And we've always known that, Bob, 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:15.119 you know, like we've always you always notice that, like 0:21:15.280 --> 0:21:18.399 there are a lot of hot girls at shows, but 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:20.680 they're not hanging out backstage because when the show's over, 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:23.159 they go do hot girl shit. They've got us to do. 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:26.520 And so my wife didn't want to be there. She 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:30.199 was there begrudgingly, and then I was also I was 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:33.240 about thirty or more pounds heavier than I am now. 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:37.680 If you listen to her, I only had one eyebrow, 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:42.240 my teeth are a little fucked up. And she's like, 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:43.959 I don't know why. She's like, I just saw you 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:48.879 and thought I see something in there, And I walked 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:51.480 over and just said hi to her and managed to 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:55.120 get her phone number and then left. We only talked 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:58.000 for like maybe ten or fifteen minutes, and then like 0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:02.399 four days later, I went to Europe for like two weeks, 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.240 and so I just spent that whole time talking to 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:07.679 her on the phone, like she was going to college 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:09.919 at the time, so we would just go, like, you know, 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:13.240 whenever her late night and my after show, I'd go 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:15.119 straight back to Hotell me. We just talk on the phone, 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:18.520 so that by the time I got back and she 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:20.399 came to a festival, I had her fly on to 0:22:20.440 --> 0:22:22.480 a festival in Boston, which like the first thing that 0:22:22.520 --> 0:22:26.480 we did when we came back. And she came to 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.200 that show, and we felt like we really knew each 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:31.680 other because we had spent hours and hours talking about 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:34.320 our lives and everything, and so I was like, I 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:36.560 even told her, like on the first date that we 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:38.280 were going to get married. I was like, we watched 0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:42.240 one of my other favorite movies, Basquiot, the Julian Schebel movie, 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:47.520 and there's a song, the version of the Nearness of 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:51.480 You by Keith Richards is in there, and I said, oh, 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:53.280 this is the song you're gonna walk down the aisle 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:56.919 when we get married. And she didn't run, and so 0:22:57.000 --> 0:23:00.120 I knew that was a good sign. And so now 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:02.200 this year will be our twenty fifth wedding. 0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:06.879 Average Okay, was it smooth off into the sunset or 0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:08.040 were there bumps in the road. 0:23:09.680 --> 0:23:13.760 I think overall pretty smooth, and that we're really good friends. 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:16.560 I don't. I mean, the thing about being married that 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:21.600 long is is just that everybody at you know, every 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:25.120 few years you're evolving into whatever it is that you're 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:28.120 going to become. And so I think every I would 0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:30.080 give it, let's say every five years, you chick it 0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:32.760 on yourself, and whatever group of experiences that you've had 0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:34.879 happened to you or that you've been a part of, 0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:37.560 they change you in some way and you start to become, 0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:42.600 you know, eventually whoever you are. And to do that 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:46.880 with another human being isn't necessarily the most natural thing 0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:48.720 in the world. It doesn't always work out that way. 0:23:49.000 --> 0:23:50.960 These two people go on these different paths sometimes and 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:54.600 they verge, you know, tremendously, and they wind up just 0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:56.800 not recognizing each other anymore. And I think her and 0:23:56.840 --> 0:24:00.680 I have stayed friends, and that's been the main thing. 0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:04.920 I mean, I'm from the South and she is Puerto 0:24:05.000 --> 0:24:10.720 Rican and Spanish. So we've had fucking fights. I mean 0:24:10.760 --> 0:24:15.000 we were we were in Detroit and got into a fight. 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:17.879 It was like right before Christmas. I remember, because it 0:24:17.960 --> 0:24:20.760 was right She as like it was like ten minutes 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:22.240 before the show, and she's like, get I want you 0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:24.119 to get your ship and get off the bus. Just 0:24:24.119 --> 0:24:26.239 get your ship and get off the bus. And I 0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:28.359 took my suitcase or whatever, and I got off the 0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:29.880 bus and I'm just like, you know, this will blow over. 0:24:29.960 --> 0:24:33.120 And I played the show. And as I'm walking back, 0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:34.600 I go to the backstage door and I could I 0:24:34.600 --> 0:24:36.040 go to the woman working, I can you do me 0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:38.399 a favorite? Can you look outside and just tell me 0:24:38.440 --> 0:24:40.480 as they're a big black bus right by the door, 0:24:40.920 --> 0:24:42.920 And she's called, no, no, that bus left. It left about 0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:48.359 two hours ago, and so she she takes she takes 0:24:48.359 --> 0:24:50.400 the bus, and I've still got two weeks on tour 0:24:50.520 --> 0:24:52.040 to go down south, so I have to like jump 0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:55.320 on the band bus for two weeks. But then by 0:24:55.359 --> 0:24:58.760 the next day, her and my bus driver are here 0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:01.760 at my house, like write to me sweet messages because 0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:03.240 they're gonna go out and they're gonna go buy Christmas 0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:05.320 trees and like you're all excited. And I was just like, 0:25:06.119 --> 0:25:07.640 I think she just wanted to go home. I don't 0:25:07.640 --> 0:25:09.399 even know if she was mad at me. And I 0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:11.359 find that one of the things about being married as 0:25:11.400 --> 0:25:12.879 long as we are, as we can be in the 0:25:12.920 --> 0:25:17.080 middle of a crazy fight and then something could come 0:25:17.119 --> 0:25:20.520 on the TV and I could be ho pause out 0:25:21.600 --> 0:25:23.399 and she'd be like, oh my god, we'll go and 0:25:23.440 --> 0:25:25.640 we'll we're laughing, and then we'll go okay, okay, fight 0:25:25.720 --> 0:25:26.520 back on, go go. 0:25:28.600 --> 0:25:30.200 Have you ever been to couples counseling? 0:25:30.800 --> 0:25:34.679 No, No, that's not for us. 0:25:35.000 --> 0:25:37.400 And the two of you don't have children together, right, 0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:38.920 we don't. 0:25:38.960 --> 0:25:41.600 I have a son. My son is twenty six. So 0:25:41.640 --> 0:25:45.840 that was another hurdle is that, you know, so we 0:25:45.880 --> 0:25:48.080 meet each other, she's in love, she's got this whole 0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:49.840 vision of this life that we're gonna have together, and 0:25:49.880 --> 0:25:51.800 I have to explain to her that I do have 0:25:52.160 --> 0:25:55.240 a son on the way that he's you know, he 0:25:55.280 --> 0:25:57.399 hasn't been born yet, he's about to be born in July. 0:25:57.600 --> 0:26:01.040 And that was I think. In fact, so I had 0:26:01.080 --> 0:26:04.560 a song on my second record, Matchbok second record called 0:26:04.600 --> 0:26:08.640 if You're Gone, and I wrote that song to night 0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:11.720 my son was born, because that night my wife broke 0:26:11.800 --> 0:26:13.639 up with me. My girl up she was my girlfriend 0:26:13.680 --> 0:26:15.639 at the time, and broke up with me because it 0:26:15.760 --> 0:26:18.800 just it seemed too much for her, this idea that 0:26:18.840 --> 0:26:20.560 she was in love with this guy, but he was 0:26:20.600 --> 0:26:23.680 about to embark on this other journey that she wasn't 0:26:23.680 --> 0:26:25.439 a part of and something that was very important to her, 0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:27.280 the idea of having kids and the idea of being married, 0:26:28.760 --> 0:26:30.840 and so she didn't know. She thought maybe I already 0:26:30.840 --> 0:26:33.199 had this and didn't need her for it, and she 0:26:33.280 --> 0:26:35.040 broke up, and then I wrote, if you're gone. I 0:26:35.040 --> 0:26:38.240 don't think that's what got her back, but that was 0:26:38.320 --> 0:26:40.000 kind of the headspace that I was in at the time. 0:26:41.760 --> 0:26:45.280 And then you know, I think her she's had myriad 0:26:45.320 --> 0:26:48.760 health issues for the last twenty some odd years and 0:26:48.840 --> 0:26:51.679 because of those things, it just wasn't in the in 0:26:51.720 --> 0:26:55.520 the cards for us. And we're okay with it, Like 0:26:55.560 --> 0:26:57.680 we were never people who were going to be defined 0:26:57.720 --> 0:27:00.480 by being parents, and we are people who do it 0:27:00.840 --> 0:27:04.160 like our time that we have, you know, so we're 0:27:04.240 --> 0:27:07.400 never like all the pitter patter of little feet and 0:27:07.480 --> 0:27:10.199 her and my son are super close, and you know, 0:27:10.280 --> 0:27:12.359 my son is now my son is now the guitar 0:27:12.400 --> 0:27:15.720 player in my solo band as of this this year, 0:27:16.320 --> 0:27:19.640 so you know, it's it's just never felt like something 0:27:19.680 --> 0:27:21.720 that we really missed. I think if I had to 0:27:21.760 --> 0:27:24.800 think about it really hard, you know, I wasn't around 0:27:24.800 --> 0:27:26.600 for all of my son being an infant, and I 0:27:26.680 --> 0:27:28.439 kind of maybe that would have been nice to be 0:27:28.480 --> 0:27:31.040 a part of watching that evolution and watch someone kind 0:27:31.040 --> 0:27:36.480 of become a person. But it's not something that we 0:27:36.560 --> 0:27:37.440 lament about too much. 0:27:38.840 --> 0:27:41.520 So, had you had a relationship with the mother of 0:27:41.560 --> 0:27:44.400 your son or was it a brief interlude. 0:27:45.200 --> 0:27:48.120 Somewhere in the middle. We were very fond of each 0:27:48.160 --> 0:27:51.280 other and we we spend a little bit of time together, 0:27:52.080 --> 0:27:53.119 but it was but it was brief. 0:27:54.320 --> 0:27:56.200 And so what what went through your head when you 0:27:56.200 --> 0:27:57.320 found out she was pregnant? 0:27:59.040 --> 0:28:02.280 Uh? I mean at the time, I was more worried. 0:28:04.640 --> 0:28:06.840 I mean, I mean I was more of a fuck 0:28:06.920 --> 0:28:12.240 up then, you know, I was. I was still dabbling 0:28:12.280 --> 0:28:17.520 in cocaine and brown liquor a lot, and so I 0:28:17.520 --> 0:28:20.119 think I was just I really just had these thoughts 0:28:20.200 --> 0:28:23.720 of me not being prepared, you know, like I wasn't 0:28:24.200 --> 0:28:26.080 I didn't really have a sense of like, oh my 0:28:26.119 --> 0:28:28.800 life is over, but that you know, there wasn't like 0:28:28.840 --> 0:28:32.520 this this kind of dread. I mean, I was twenty seven, 0:28:32.560 --> 0:28:36.240 so it wasn't like I was fifteen or sixteen. It 0:28:36.320 --> 0:28:39.320 was just a sense of like, I don't know if 0:28:39.360 --> 0:28:44.320 I'm as a person prepared for this task, and I 0:28:44.400 --> 0:28:48.400 need to. I need to, you know, kind of I 0:28:48.440 --> 0:28:49.480 need to be better quick. 0:28:51.360 --> 0:28:57.880 Okay, So you meet your wife pretty early in your success. 0:28:58.680 --> 0:29:02.680 Many people, you know, they want to become successful rock stars, 0:29:02.720 --> 0:29:04.360 to live the rock and roll lifestyle. 0:29:04.880 --> 0:29:07.240 Yeah. Well I had, you know, a good year and 0:29:07.280 --> 0:29:11.360 a half with just fucking ran it til the brakes 0:29:11.400 --> 0:29:13.400 ran off of it. And that was you know, it 0:29:13.480 --> 0:29:17.000 was fun. But you know, Paul, my best friend, Paul, 0:29:17.040 --> 0:29:18.880 who was the drummer for Matchbox and now he's the 0:29:18.920 --> 0:29:23.840 guitar player. I mean, I remember just before I met 0:29:23.840 --> 0:29:28.120 my wife on a plane, just wasted and looking at 0:29:28.120 --> 0:29:30.959 each other and going, you know, there's more to it 0:29:31.000 --> 0:29:34.479 than this, right, Like it feels like we're kind of 0:29:34.520 --> 0:29:38.720 like in this cycle of like play, let's play a show, 0:29:38.760 --> 0:29:41.440 Let's get fucking wasted, wake up, let's do it all 0:29:41.480 --> 0:29:46.040 over again. You know, girl show, wasted show, Girl show wasted, 0:29:46.080 --> 0:29:51.640 girl show, and and so I kind of feel like 0:29:51.680 --> 0:29:53.680 I got to experience a lot of what that's about. 0:29:53.720 --> 0:29:56.320 But when I met my wife, she was young and 0:29:56.440 --> 0:30:00.720 I was young, and so we spent the next couple 0:30:00.760 --> 0:30:03.440 of years traveling around the world, you know, on this 0:30:03.520 --> 0:30:07.520 fucking grand adventure and you know, we did the drugs 0:30:07.560 --> 0:30:09.080 and we did the drinking, and we went to the 0:30:09.080 --> 0:30:12.960 parties and you know, like we Michael Littman is my 0:30:13.520 --> 0:30:16.160 original manager, Michael Littman from back in the day you 0:30:16.200 --> 0:30:20.000 just managed George. Michael managed Bowie for a while, and 0:30:20.200 --> 0:30:23.479 you know, he was one of my big role models 0:30:24.240 --> 0:30:26.680 when I first started in this business, and him and 0:30:26.720 --> 0:30:29.280 his wife in particular, because they had you know, we 0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:31.000 would go to London and they would take us to 0:30:31.040 --> 0:30:32.960 Cambridges and you know, they take us to these spots 0:30:32.960 --> 0:30:35.000 and be like, oh, this is you know where me 0:30:35.040 --> 0:30:37.120 and George did this, or me and David did this, 0:30:37.160 --> 0:30:39.200 and they would tell these great stories and it was 0:30:39.240 --> 0:30:41.840 the two of them that had done that. And she 0:30:41.960 --> 0:30:44.160 used to say, you know, oh, her name's Nancy Liman. 0:30:44.160 --> 0:30:46.200 She would say, oh, yeah, I'm a rock chick from wayback. 0:30:46.560 --> 0:30:48.280 And so now that's the joke from my wife. You know, 0:30:48.560 --> 0:30:50.480 my wife's like, you know, she's a rock chick from 0:30:50.480 --> 0:30:52.840 way back. Like we got to do that together and 0:30:52.960 --> 0:30:58.320 experience that together, which I think is so much better 0:30:58.360 --> 0:31:01.160 than the idea like me meeting someone and ten fifteen 0:31:01.240 --> 0:31:04.480 years later and having this whole other part of my 0:31:04.520 --> 0:31:06.680 life that they're not a part of. You know. It 0:31:06.720 --> 0:31:09.400 almost like we've been together a really long time and 0:31:09.440 --> 0:31:12.400 we got to be She got to be through that 0:31:12.440 --> 0:31:14.880 part of it with me, So it's not some you know, 0:31:14.960 --> 0:31:16.920 fairy tale that she hears stories about later on. 0:31:24.320 --> 0:31:27.040 So she traveled with you at first? Does she traveled 0:31:27.040 --> 0:31:28.040 with you at all? Now? 0:31:29.360 --> 0:31:32.960 Whenever she wants? I mean she you know, she's not 0:31:33.200 --> 0:31:37.000 lured by the bus anymore, you know, maybe the way 0:31:37.160 --> 0:31:38.960 I used to be, But she does like I did. 0:31:39.040 --> 0:31:41.720 I knew that she was the one when after our 0:31:41.760 --> 0:31:44.560 first time we were torn together. We're sitting like about 0:31:44.560 --> 0:31:46.880 a month or two later in our apartment and soho 0:31:47.720 --> 0:31:49.800 and she just out of nowhere she said, oh I 0:31:49.840 --> 0:31:54.480 missed the bus. Was just like, oh really, so nah, 0:31:54.560 --> 0:31:56.920 It's like I fucking love you. And then you know, well, Willy. 0:31:56.960 --> 0:31:59.560 After my time working with Willie was when I we 0:31:59.640 --> 0:32:02.960 really up and we started we got our when it 0:32:03.000 --> 0:32:05.520 was just her and Eye on a bus alone. We 0:32:05.560 --> 0:32:09.200 stopped getting hotel rooms all together, and just every every 0:32:09.240 --> 0:32:11.000 day of tour was on the bus. We would just 0:32:11.160 --> 0:32:13.680 live off that bus, and he got life was so 0:32:13.800 --> 0:32:15.880 much easier once we started to do that, and it 0:32:15.920 --> 0:32:18.440 wasn't those three o'clock in the morning, back and forth 0:32:18.520 --> 0:32:20.920 to the hotels, pack up your ship, go get a room, 0:32:21.240 --> 0:32:23.000 come back down to twelve for the you know, it 0:32:23.080 --> 0:32:25.320 was just a nightmare. And now it was just like 0:32:25.360 --> 0:32:27.640 wherever we went, we were home and it was perfect. 0:32:28.040 --> 0:32:29.520 Like I, you know, WILLI used to tell me that 0:32:29.560 --> 0:32:32.360 he would take his bus to his house, but he 0:32:32.400 --> 0:32:34.120 would still stay on his bus, like he would just 0:32:34.160 --> 0:32:36.280 do his laundry in the house, but he would just 0:32:36.280 --> 0:32:38.040 still stay on the bus and like, you know, hook 0:32:38.120 --> 0:32:39.760 up the power and the phone lines and shipped to 0:32:39.840 --> 0:32:41.680 the bus. And I was just like, oh, you're my 0:32:41.720 --> 0:32:44.280 fucking hero again. 0:32:44.520 --> 0:32:47.960 Wow. So what did the rest of the band say 0:32:48.000 --> 0:32:50.040 when all of a sudden there's this woman along with 0:32:50.080 --> 0:32:51.880 you with them? 0:32:52.560 --> 0:32:54.240 It was it was a good time, Like when when 0:32:54.280 --> 0:32:57.520 I met her. It was the next leg of our 0:32:57.520 --> 0:33:00.720 tour was about to happen, and it was the first 0:32:59.800 --> 0:33:06.000 time that we had two buses, and so everybody, what 0:33:06.040 --> 0:33:06.880 the hell just happened? 0:33:07.440 --> 0:33:10.320 I have no idea where that came from. It's like 0:33:10.360 --> 0:33:12.160 a your birthday or something. I don't know. 0:33:13.320 --> 0:33:15.640 That is awesome. So, you know. 0:33:15.560 --> 0:33:17.120 This is audio only, but all of a sudden, we 0:33:17.160 --> 0:33:19.960 saw balloons on the screen, just like to see my message. 0:33:20.040 --> 0:33:22.440 I don't know, I feel like that guy in that 0:33:22.680 --> 0:33:26.880 I am not a cat, sir. So we had two 0:33:26.880 --> 0:33:29.720 buses for the first time, and so we're we all, 0:33:30.040 --> 0:33:33.800 you know, Paul at the time, I just started dating 0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:36.040 me and Zappa and they weren't married yet, but they 0:33:36.040 --> 0:33:40.200 had just started dating. I think Brian had just met, 0:33:40.200 --> 0:33:44.080 like we had all met people, and so we everybody 0:33:44.160 --> 0:33:45.880 loved the idea that we could break off, had a 0:33:45.920 --> 0:33:47.920 little more room, and everybody could bring somebody out if 0:33:47.920 --> 0:33:51.160 they wanted to. So it's actually the perfect time for it. 0:33:52.920 --> 0:33:56.280 Okay. Anybody who's had the level of success you've had 0:33:56.360 --> 0:33:59.240 knows you're out there, you're playing to thousands of people. 0:34:00.200 --> 0:34:01.840 You know, then you go back in the dressing room 0:34:01.840 --> 0:34:04.600 with the same people you've known for ten or fifteen years. 0:34:05.240 --> 0:34:07.320 How do you calm down from a show? 0:34:09.520 --> 0:34:12.640 Well, I mean it's I think it still involves drinking. 0:34:13.960 --> 0:34:19.120 Probably it used to be more, I think, but then again, 0:34:19.160 --> 0:34:22.520 I mean, you know a lot of those highs were 0:34:22.600 --> 0:34:24.879 much higher at the very very beginning. They were new. 0:34:24.880 --> 0:34:27.239 Everything was a new experience, you know, for the first 0:34:27.239 --> 0:34:30.319 few years. Every sold out club, no matter how small, 0:34:30.320 --> 0:34:32.600 it was felt like a victory. And then you moved 0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:35.160 the theaters and then, you know, if you're fortunate enough 0:34:35.200 --> 0:34:38.359 like that, that one record had like three or four 0:34:38.360 --> 0:34:41.040 different lives over like a three year period that ended. 0:34:41.360 --> 0:34:45.280 It started with us in tiny clubs playing to nobody, 0:34:45.760 --> 0:34:48.720 and ended in sold out arenas all over the world, 0:34:49.360 --> 0:34:53.120 and so everything about that was special and new and exciting, 0:34:53.160 --> 0:34:56.680 and we were you know, and I think, just like 0:34:56.719 --> 0:34:58.279 anything else, I think, you know, when you're a race 0:34:58.320 --> 0:35:02.759 car driver, that's speed. It is exhilarating, and then over 0:35:02.800 --> 0:35:06.480 the years, everything else inside of the car slows down 0:35:06.520 --> 0:35:09.320 a little bit and you see it a little bit differently, 0:35:09.800 --> 0:35:12.000 and you're you know, like, so now when I'm on stage, 0:35:12.400 --> 0:35:14.480 it's not the show coming at me in a million 0:35:14.480 --> 0:35:19.359 miles an hour. I'm inside of it, controlling the apparatus 0:35:19.400 --> 0:35:21.920 to some degree. I'm thinking about where I'm going to be. 0:35:21.960 --> 0:35:24.919 I'm thinking about how I'm singing. I'm thinking about physicality 0:35:24.960 --> 0:35:27.359 and where I'm placing myself, thinking about what the rest 0:35:27.360 --> 0:35:29.120 of the band is doing. I'm thinking about how this 0:35:29.160 --> 0:35:33.919 is coming across. And so I think that now it's 0:35:33.960 --> 0:35:36.279 more just like, hey, everybody. Let's if we have a 0:35:36.320 --> 0:35:38.240 really great show, we all get together, we're all excited, 0:35:38.320 --> 0:35:40.759 let's toast it. Let's you know. But there's a lot 0:35:40.760 --> 0:35:44.319 of times where we can have an amazing show sold out, 0:35:44.440 --> 0:35:48.000 you know, at some amphitheater, twenty two thousand people, and 0:35:48.719 --> 0:35:51.200 I am on my bus in the shower before the 0:35:51.320 --> 0:35:55.879 place is empty, you know, because I'm also there. When 0:35:55.880 --> 0:36:00.239 you were younger, there was no tomorrow, and now only 0:36:00.320 --> 0:36:02.920 aware that that tomorrow we have to do this again. 0:36:03.520 --> 0:36:05.080 I want my voice to sound as good like if 0:36:05.120 --> 0:36:07.600 I had a great show. My first thought is, oh, 0:36:07.680 --> 0:36:09.799 wouldn't it be great if I had another one tomorrow? Like 0:36:09.840 --> 0:36:11.560 I want my voice to sound as good as it did. 0:36:11.600 --> 0:36:13.280 I want my body to have that kind of energy. 0:36:13.880 --> 0:36:16.560 I'm way more aware now than I was then of 0:36:16.680 --> 0:36:19.560 like what it takes for someone to come to see 0:36:19.600 --> 0:36:22.000 a show, Like when you see all these people and 0:36:22.000 --> 0:36:24.520 that every one of them represents somebody that chose to 0:36:24.560 --> 0:36:26.680 be there. They paid money for a ticket, they had 0:36:26.719 --> 0:36:28.960 to get parking, they had to get babysitters, you know, 0:36:29.040 --> 0:36:32.200 especially as we get older, well now as we got older, 0:36:32.200 --> 0:36:33.560 a lot of them now have kids that can be 0:36:33.600 --> 0:36:38.560 their babysitters or they're bringing their grandkids. But you know, 0:36:38.600 --> 0:36:42.200 I think it's just a different mindset that you're in. 0:36:42.360 --> 0:36:46.440 It's still exciting, but you you're I think you're you're 0:36:46.480 --> 0:36:48.560 just a little more responsible about the whole situation than 0:36:48.560 --> 0:36:49.000 you used to be. 0:36:50.000 --> 0:36:52.560 Okay, let's say, you know, you go from the stage 0:36:52.600 --> 0:36:55.760 to the shower. You still can't fall asleep right away. 0:36:56.480 --> 0:36:59.640 No, no, no, it's still we're still up late, you know. 0:36:59.680 --> 0:37:01.359 But that's luckily my wife is one of those two. 0:37:01.560 --> 0:37:03.319 I mean, you know, there's been a lot of like 0:37:03.360 --> 0:37:05.879 times where I'm in there, I'm on the shower because 0:37:05.880 --> 0:37:08.520 I'm I'm now like the bus is moving, I'm on 0:37:08.560 --> 0:37:11.120 the bus showering while we're driving down the road. I've 0:37:11.120 --> 0:37:13.440 got to kind of got good bus legs, and so 0:37:14.080 --> 0:37:17.839 I come out. And then we're always like, there's a couple, 0:37:18.000 --> 0:37:19.320 you know, let's have some let's have a couple of 0:37:19.360 --> 0:37:21.719 drinks on the on the bus, you know, you know, 0:37:21.760 --> 0:37:23.319 get maybe a little somebody to eat while and then 0:37:23.600 --> 0:37:26.040 you know, we're all usually streaming something, so we go 0:37:26.080 --> 0:37:28.680 back to whatever we were watching. You know, whether it's 0:37:29.440 --> 0:37:32.239 that's when we might be a little more pull out, 0:37:32.280 --> 0:37:34.799 like the old Ken Burns jazz documentaries and shit like that. 0:37:36.680 --> 0:37:38.840 We still, like somehow exist on a lot of DVDs 0:37:38.840 --> 0:37:41.400 on the bus because you because sometimes you don't have signal, 0:37:41.760 --> 0:37:43.760 so you still have to, you know, like be tethered 0:37:43.800 --> 0:37:46.920 in some way to DVDs. Uh. So you know, I 0:37:46.960 --> 0:37:48.760 think you know you don't go to sleep, But luckily 0:37:50.160 --> 0:37:52.600 it used to no matter because your whole life worked 0:37:52.600 --> 0:37:54.080 in a cycle. Like you you can go to bed 0:37:54.120 --> 0:37:55.839 till five in the morning, but you woke up at 0:37:55.880 --> 0:37:59.160 two in the afternoon. My body, now, in my fifties, 0:37:59.560 --> 0:38:02.600 I can't sleep past nine if I try, you know, 0:38:02.640 --> 0:38:04.520 and usually I'm up at seven thirty. So even if 0:38:04.560 --> 0:38:06.439 I go to that are like three, my body's gonna 0:38:06.440 --> 0:38:08.319 get up at seven thirty. My dogs are gonna wake 0:38:08.360 --> 0:38:09.880 me up at seven thirty. I'm not gonna go back 0:38:09.920 --> 0:38:13.839 to sleep. So you know, again, that's where the responsibility 0:38:13.840 --> 0:38:14.480 has to kick in. 0:38:16.640 --> 0:38:21.439 Are you wearing an orror ring? I am, so tell 0:38:21.480 --> 0:38:22.160 me about that. 0:38:22.960 --> 0:38:24.880 I don't know. Do you have one? Now? 0:38:24.880 --> 0:38:26.279 I don't have one. I know a lot of people 0:38:26.280 --> 0:38:29.200 who have them. I've read varying reports on you know, 0:38:29.239 --> 0:38:34.480 their usability, their accuracy. What's your experience been. I. 0:38:34.480 --> 0:38:36.719 I think the only reason that I wear it is 0:38:36.800 --> 0:38:40.239 to check how my sleep was every day. It's like 0:38:40.320 --> 0:38:44.120 it's literally I I didn't get an Apple Watch. I 0:38:44.120 --> 0:38:46.800 had an Apple Watch and it was so passive aggressive, 0:38:46.840 --> 0:38:48.680 that little fucker, and like it kept telling me to 0:38:48.680 --> 0:38:50.839 stand up and go for a walk, and hey, don't 0:38:50.840 --> 0:38:53.560 forget to meditate. And now even now through my phone, 0:38:53.600 --> 0:38:55.759 my ring, like my phone will beep and just be like, 0:38:56.120 --> 0:38:58.400 hey man, it's getting time for bed. Don't you think 0:38:58.480 --> 0:39:00.440 hm out when I start winding it down, and I'm 0:39:00.480 --> 0:39:02.239 just like, fuck you. You don't know my life ring. 0:39:03.400 --> 0:39:04.680 So yeah, I don't know how long I'm going to 0:39:04.760 --> 0:39:08.600 have it. I have My manager now is Nick Litman. 0:39:08.680 --> 0:39:11.640 He's co managers with his son with his father, Michael, 0:39:12.160 --> 0:39:16.200 and he swears by this thing. So in Australia they 0:39:16.960 --> 0:39:20.680 I fucking bought into it and now I've got it, 0:39:20.680 --> 0:39:22.040 so I'm going to live with it for a while. 0:39:22.640 --> 0:39:26.759 And see. I don't see any giant insights into my 0:39:26.800 --> 0:39:29.200 life that this ring is giving me. But I am 0:39:29.360 --> 0:39:32.000 fascinated every morning with how I slept. 0:39:32.280 --> 0:39:34.640 You know, what are all the details it tells you 0:39:34.680 --> 0:39:35.439 about how you sleep? 0:39:35.520 --> 0:39:37.360 I let you know, like where you're breathing rate was 0:39:37.360 --> 0:39:38.880 while you were sleeping, but it lets you know, like 0:39:38.920 --> 0:39:42.960 you're how much time you were in RAM sleep versus 0:39:43.000 --> 0:39:45.920 deep sleep, how much time you spend in bed versus 0:39:45.920 --> 0:39:49.480 actually sleeping, you know, And like it turns out like 0:39:49.640 --> 0:39:52.320 even like if I have like a pretty high sleep 0:39:52.320 --> 0:39:55.520 score and I slept pretty well, only like fourteen minutes 0:39:55.520 --> 0:39:58.120 of that whole night was in deep sleep, which is 0:39:58.200 --> 0:40:00.960 kind of crazy, like maybe an hour and something is 0:40:01.000 --> 0:40:04.080 in r EM sleep, you know, and that's out of 0:40:04.160 --> 0:40:09.520 eight hours. So I'm not But again, Bob, one of 0:40:09.520 --> 0:40:13.520 the things is like I could do something and be like, oh, 0:40:13.800 --> 0:40:16.239 I had like a sleep score in the forties, which 0:40:16.280 --> 0:40:19.200 is kind of abysmal, and then I do something I 0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:21.000 changed something up, and I'm like, oh, you know, I didn't. 0:40:21.320 --> 0:40:23.280 I had like a couple of less glasses of wine 0:40:23.960 --> 0:40:25.960 and I didn't eat late, and I had like an 0:40:26.000 --> 0:40:29.319 eighty six sleep score. And you would think that that's 0:40:29.320 --> 0:40:31.520 the purpose of the ring, and I would go, oh, 0:40:31.680 --> 0:40:33.920 that's what I need to do now that. No, I 0:40:33.960 --> 0:40:36.399 don't change my life in any way whatsoever. I still 0:40:36.440 --> 0:40:38.279 do whatever the fuck I do, and then I just 0:40:38.320 --> 0:40:39.640 wake up the next day and go like, oh, how 0:40:39.680 --> 0:40:43.520 to go? I'm not using it the way I'm supposed to. 0:40:44.239 --> 0:40:46.920 If you had a high score and you thought back 0:40:46.960 --> 0:40:49.240 and you said, well, I didn't drink or I drank less, 0:40:49.280 --> 0:40:51.360 and I did this, and I did that, if you 0:40:51.480 --> 0:40:54.480 repeat that behavior and you get the same results. 0:40:55.719 --> 0:40:58.759 Yeah, I mean obviously, like any it doesn't take a 0:40:58.800 --> 0:41:02.160 psychotherapist or a medical doctor to letting you know that 0:41:02.239 --> 0:41:05.240 if you have two glasses of wine instead of six, 0:41:05.719 --> 0:41:07.920 you're probably gonna sleep a lot better. And I have 0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:12.239 like restless legs syndrome I have, but I also have 0:41:12.320 --> 0:41:15.279 a drinking problem. So what are you gonna do? 0:41:15.760 --> 0:41:17.800 Well, well, we'll define a drinking problem. 0:41:18.600 --> 0:41:21.840 I drink more than is healthy for my life. 0:41:23.520 --> 0:41:25.400 Do you drink every day? 0:41:25.960 --> 0:41:28.839 Oh? Yeah, most days? Yeah, I mean I don't get 0:41:28.920 --> 0:41:29.640 drunk every day. 0:41:29.640 --> 0:41:32.360 But what's the earliest you'll have a drink. 0:41:35.000 --> 0:41:37.320 It depends if I'm on the road and it's a 0:41:37.400 --> 0:41:39.880 day off. I mean you might be out at lunch 0:41:40.120 --> 0:41:42.480 having some drinks. But you know that's a that's a 0:41:42.520 --> 0:41:46.480 different special situation. At home, we're more of like a 0:41:46.640 --> 0:41:51.000 six thirty seven o'clock have some wine. I mean, like 0:41:51.520 --> 0:41:55.360 I come from a world where it was shot shot, shot, shot, shot, 0:41:56.080 --> 0:41:59.279 blind line, line shot shot, smoke, smoke, line, line, pill, pill, 0:41:59.640 --> 0:42:05.120 and so so it feels pretty moderate in a relative way, 0:42:05.440 --> 0:42:08.400 you know, compared to like the gears that I but 0:42:08.440 --> 0:42:10.880 I don't have those gears anymore, you know, Like I 0:42:11.520 --> 0:42:15.239 traded that model in for a slower model. Like I 0:42:15.760 --> 0:42:19.200 don't have a sports car anymore. I'm more of a 0:42:19.320 --> 0:42:23.000 nice four door sedan. Kind of a body happening. 0:42:24.040 --> 0:42:26.799 And do you have an addictive personality? Do you need it? 0:42:26.920 --> 0:42:29.240 Or you're someone say, well, you know I can stop 0:42:29.280 --> 0:42:31.000 after a couple of drinks. 0:42:31.560 --> 0:42:33.160 I No, I don't think so at all. I think 0:42:33.200 --> 0:42:36.799 that's the thing is, I could not drink at all. 0:42:37.920 --> 0:42:41.879 But I don't have a limitter. But I'm that way 0:42:41.920 --> 0:42:44.799 with a lot of things, you know, good and bad, 0:42:44.840 --> 0:42:49.480 Like I get. I like my workouts. I will work 0:42:49.480 --> 0:42:53.520 out six days a week, seven days a week for 0:42:53.600 --> 0:42:55.799 an hour and a half two hours a day, you know, 0:42:56.000 --> 0:42:58.799 and really, and I've got it in my computer, I know, 0:42:58.840 --> 0:43:00.520 like what workouts I'm doing this and this day and 0:43:00.560 --> 0:43:04.040 this day I'm charting my progress. I'm like because I 0:43:04.040 --> 0:43:05.239 started to do it, and I was like, oh I 0:43:05.280 --> 0:43:06.880 want to. I want to do it. You know, I 0:43:06.920 --> 0:43:09.440 started to learn something, I'm like, Okay, I want to 0:43:09.520 --> 0:43:12.279 fucking learn it. I want to, you know. And so 0:43:12.680 --> 0:43:15.239 anything that I like, I don't want to get. If 0:43:15.280 --> 0:43:18.399 I buy a book and I start to like it 0:43:18.480 --> 0:43:22.000 and there's you know, sequels, I would just go buy 0:43:22.040 --> 0:43:23.719 all of them at one time now because I am 0:43:23.760 --> 0:43:27.000 now all into this. You know, do you. 0:43:27.000 --> 0:43:31.560 Work out six days a week? Yeah, by yourself with 0:43:31.600 --> 0:43:35.960 a trainer, now, by myself. So how do you get 0:43:35.960 --> 0:43:37.000 yourself motivated? 0:43:38.360 --> 0:43:45.759 Ego? Like I one of the things, you know, real 0:43:45.840 --> 0:43:47.759 talk Bob. One of the things is like, you know, 0:43:48.160 --> 0:43:53.640 at fifty two years old and I you know, I 0:43:53.719 --> 0:43:56.000 don't want to I don't want to see the big 0:43:56.760 --> 0:43:59.440 bloated pictures of me at the casino and my ed 0:43:59.520 --> 0:44:01.840 hearty T shirts and all, you know, and you're and 0:44:01.880 --> 0:44:05.080 you're like metal jewelry every you know what I mean, 0:44:05.120 --> 0:44:07.160 like still trying to hang onto that rock dream with 0:44:07.239 --> 0:44:09.719 your gut hanging out Like I mean, first off, I've 0:44:09.719 --> 0:44:14.960 never been like rock and roll guy anyway, but yeah, 0:44:15.040 --> 0:44:18.160 I know for a fact that nine the time if 0:44:18.160 --> 0:44:19.840 somebody goes, oh yeah I went and saw Rob Thomas, 0:44:19.880 --> 0:44:23.000 or I saw mashbox swinning the other night. Somebody's gonna go, oh, 0:44:23.000 --> 0:44:25.040 how do they look? How do they do it? You know? 0:44:25.760 --> 0:44:28.319 And and or at least if they if we look 0:44:28.600 --> 0:44:30.759 like shit, people are gonna stay in their noticing like, 0:44:30.760 --> 0:44:34.760 oh man, they look fucking rough. God damn like I. 0:44:34.760 --> 0:44:38.120 I I don't want you know what, I'll when we 0:44:38.160 --> 0:44:40.680 stop recording, I'll call out. I don't want to. I 0:44:40.719 --> 0:44:45.000 don't like talking about people, but I'll tell I'll give 0:44:45.000 --> 0:44:46.080 you a great example of it. 0:44:53.400 --> 0:44:57.360 Okay, Very early in your career, once you broke to 0:44:57.440 --> 0:44:59.960 the external world, it looked like it was very fast 0:45:00.640 --> 0:45:03.839 and you gained weight, and as a result of that 0:45:03.960 --> 0:45:06.799 and your instant success perceived by the public, there was 0:45:06.840 --> 0:45:09.799 a lot of blowback. How did you cope with that? 0:45:11.480 --> 0:45:16.120 Unfortunately by eating and drinking, Like I used to do cocaine, 0:45:16.160 --> 0:45:17.839 but I would only do cocaine so that I could 0:45:17.880 --> 0:45:20.600 stay awake and party more, which led to more drinking, 0:45:21.080 --> 0:45:24.160 which eventually would lead to, you know, gorging on food. 0:45:24.480 --> 0:45:26.160 So no matter how much I was doing, I was 0:45:26.160 --> 0:45:29.520 still gaining a lot of weight. The first time that 0:45:29.600 --> 0:45:32.239 we were ever mentioned in Rolling Stone at all, there 0:45:32.280 --> 0:45:35.320 was just a picture of me I had this red hoodie. 0:45:35.320 --> 0:45:38.160 It was from Glastonbury and I just looked bloated as 0:45:38.239 --> 0:45:41.759 fun and it said it said two things that were 0:45:41.800 --> 0:45:44.960 just fucking brilliant. It said one that it said Rob 0:45:45.040 --> 0:45:49.759 Thomas apparently has grown as a performer. And then it 0:45:49.800 --> 0:45:52.760 said apparently the road that success leads to the deli trade. 0:45:57.480 --> 0:45:58.880 So we got to charge out of that because at 0:45:58.920 --> 0:45:59.680 least it was clever. 0:46:01.239 --> 0:46:03.560 Yeah, I mean, we're talking decades later. It must have 0:46:03.640 --> 0:46:04.399 hurt back then. 0:46:04.800 --> 0:46:07.319 No, I mean it really did. And obviously, I mean, Bob, 0:46:07.360 --> 0:46:08.799 the thing that we're talking about now, you know, when 0:46:08.800 --> 0:46:11.440 I think about the reason in the why I'm working, 0:46:11.440 --> 0:46:13.280 why I work out six days a week, the reason, 0:46:13.360 --> 0:46:17.120 like I have an unhealthy and this is this is 0:46:17.440 --> 0:46:19.799 you know real talk to me and my therapist, you know, 0:46:19.840 --> 0:46:21.719 these are these are subjects, which is I have a 0:46:21.800 --> 0:46:25.200 very unhealthy body image and I have an unhealthy relationship 0:46:25.400 --> 0:46:29.040 with calories and food and the like because of because 0:46:29.040 --> 0:46:31.520 of that, like I you know, because it went deeper 0:46:31.560 --> 0:46:34.359 than that. It was also me I used to hate, 0:46:34.360 --> 0:46:36.040 like you know, there were always photo shoots and I 0:46:36.040 --> 0:46:38.640 fucking hated photo shoots because I felt fat because photo 0:46:38.640 --> 0:46:42.279 shoots always come with wardrobe fittings, which you hate even 0:46:42.320 --> 0:46:44.759 more because at some point there's some stylist that you 0:46:44.800 --> 0:46:46.959 don't even know, going, hey, you need to hit the gym. 0:46:47.040 --> 0:46:49.600 Huh is this? You know, You're just like ah, and 0:46:49.960 --> 0:46:52.600 so just pile And then I'm the kind of guy 0:46:52.600 --> 0:46:56.400 who will never let you know, so I'm always I'm 0:46:56.520 --> 0:47:00.279 laughing it off to your face and then the you know, 0:47:00.400 --> 0:47:03.560 drinking it back away, and so you know, it stuck 0:47:03.600 --> 0:47:10.319 with me pretty hard. My wife, I think, you know, 0:47:10.320 --> 0:47:13.480 ever since I met her, it was just on a 0:47:13.600 --> 0:47:19.799 much healthier path, you know, not just for aesthetics, but 0:47:20.040 --> 0:47:23.359 just you know, aesthetics are a lucky byproduct of that, 0:47:23.520 --> 0:47:24.400 you know, being healthier. 0:47:25.200 --> 0:47:27.680 So your reference drugs a number of times like that 0:47:27.840 --> 0:47:30.600 was in the past. So what's the status of drugs today? 0:47:32.239 --> 0:47:39.480 Uh? Alcohol, caffeine, weed? So none? 0:47:41.000 --> 0:47:43.880 Was that a conscious decision, a hard decision, or just 0:47:43.880 --> 0:47:45.120 so all of a sudden you woke up one day 0:47:45.120 --> 0:47:46.000 and you weren't doing it. 0:47:46.880 --> 0:47:50.279 That wasn't too hard. I mean I really miss sometimes 0:47:51.920 --> 0:47:54.799 I miss psychedelics sometimes, you know, I miss and I 0:47:54.800 --> 0:47:56.799 missed like maybe ecstasy. You know, we used to have 0:47:56.840 --> 0:48:00.640 a lot of fun. Uh, you know, takeing ecstasy, but 0:48:02.040 --> 0:48:04.040 cocaine was easy to give up. I think it was 0:48:04.120 --> 0:48:07.719 just one you just have to be have one time 0:48:07.760 --> 0:48:10.040 where you look at the people that are in your life, 0:48:10.160 --> 0:48:12.480 that are only in your life because you're doing cocaine, 0:48:12.800 --> 0:48:14.879 and how fucking how just how much you hate them, 0:48:15.320 --> 0:48:17.360 and then you see yourself in them and you go, 0:48:17.400 --> 0:48:20.000 oh my god, that's who I am, you know, like 0:48:20.080 --> 0:48:22.080 I'm hanging out with this person that I've never met 0:48:22.120 --> 0:48:24.320 before in my entire life, and we're talking about opening 0:48:24.320 --> 0:48:27.640 a club together tomorrow, you know, those kind of nights. 0:48:28.080 --> 0:48:30.160 And so that was pretty easy to be like, yeah, 0:48:30.200 --> 0:48:33.120 I'm okay with Without that part of my life happened anymore. 0:48:34.400 --> 0:48:37.120 Now I can see on the zoom you're wearing a 0:48:37.280 --> 0:48:40.200 bracelet with letters on like a friendship bracelet. 0:48:42.040 --> 0:48:46.080 Oh yeah, one from a fan and one from my niece. 0:48:48.080 --> 0:48:49.759 But it's not as cute as it sounds. My niece 0:48:49.800 --> 0:48:50.640 is in her mid thirties. 0:48:51.960 --> 0:48:53.640 Okay, do they say anything specific? 0:48:54.760 --> 0:48:57.840 One has my dog Sammy's name on it, who passed away, 0:48:58.520 --> 0:49:03.360 and then one just says Matt twenty because uh, because 0:49:03.400 --> 0:49:03.959 I'm a fan. 0:49:05.360 --> 0:49:09.680 So you mentioned a therapist, So when did you start 0:49:09.719 --> 0:49:11.400 and how much do you go now. 0:49:12.800 --> 0:49:18.320 Uh, once every couple of weeks, maybe a year and 0:49:18.360 --> 0:49:21.640 a half ago, two years ago I had I started. 0:49:22.080 --> 0:49:24.919 Five years ago, I had my first time ever going 0:49:24.920 --> 0:49:28.439 to a therapist, and I swear to God, like five 0:49:28.760 --> 0:49:32.000 it's like a fifth session. And she just fell asleep 0:49:33.719 --> 0:49:36.400 in the middle of the session, and when I called 0:49:36.400 --> 0:49:41.440 her on it, she just said I was boring her, 0:49:42.160 --> 0:49:44.400 And so I think in some way, I was like, 0:49:44.520 --> 0:49:46.479 I fucking knew this is what it was. I knew 0:49:46.480 --> 0:49:47.560 this is what it's gonna be the you know what 0:49:47.560 --> 0:49:49.400 I mean, And so that put me off it for 0:49:49.440 --> 0:49:52.880 a little while. Now I have one who I like 0:49:52.920 --> 0:49:55.319 a lot. Honestly, I think that she agrees with me 0:49:55.360 --> 0:49:57.439 a little too much, you might, and so I still 0:49:57.520 --> 0:49:59.880 might be in a phase now where I need to 0:50:00.280 --> 0:50:03.839 someone who challenges me a little more. So that might 0:50:03.880 --> 0:50:05.360 be my next stage in that evolution. 0:50:05.760 --> 0:50:07.600 What motivated you to go to begin with? 0:50:11.719 --> 0:50:15.040 You know, I got there's a lot of unresolved. My 0:50:15.120 --> 0:50:19.880 mother and I had a very complicated relationship. It's almost like, 0:50:19.920 --> 0:50:23.279 if you go like reasons for therapy number one, this 0:50:23.400 --> 0:50:25.120 is you know, so my mother and I had a 0:50:25.200 --> 0:50:28.839 very complicated relationship, that was never resolved when she passed away, 0:50:30.640 --> 0:50:32.640 and that was kind of always in there, and I 0:50:32.680 --> 0:50:35.840 see these parts of her that I hated, that I 0:50:35.880 --> 0:50:38.319 see inside of myself, and I wanted to explore those 0:50:38.360 --> 0:50:41.640 a little bit. I wanted to kind of explore, h 0:50:43.040 --> 0:50:46.080 explore my reasons for why why I'm you know, why 0:50:46.200 --> 0:50:48.799 why the drinking and why sometimes I let it get 0:50:48.800 --> 0:50:51.920 out of control to a certain you know. And I 0:50:51.960 --> 0:50:54.960 just had questions that I wasn't and that I couldn't 0:50:55.000 --> 0:50:57.799 answer myself, even though I was the only one that 0:50:57.960 --> 0:51:00.399 contained the answers. But I just did have a key 0:51:00.960 --> 0:51:02.600 to figure out how to find that answer. 0:51:04.320 --> 0:51:06.560 Okay, so you grew up in South Carolina. We're in 0:51:06.600 --> 0:51:11.320 South Carolina. 0:51:09.320 --> 0:51:11.960 So between a place called Lake City, South Carolina, which 0:51:12.000 --> 0:51:17.359 is like a very small tobacco town maybe an hour 0:51:17.400 --> 0:51:23.400 from Myrtle Beach and a little time in Columbia, but 0:51:23.560 --> 0:51:27.200 in Lake City. So Lake City, we we lived in 0:51:27.239 --> 0:51:30.360 my grandmother's house. So my grandmother was this character. So 0:51:30.400 --> 0:51:33.200 it was like a kind of like I guess you 0:51:33.200 --> 0:51:34.920 would call it a general store in a sense, right. 0:51:34.920 --> 0:51:38.560 It was the local gas station where all the tobacco 0:51:38.560 --> 0:51:40.319 farmers would come on their lunch break and they could 0:51:40.360 --> 0:51:42.680 get you know, they would get get a coke or 0:51:42.680 --> 0:51:44.359 a hot dog or whatever. People would be on their 0:51:44.360 --> 0:51:47.320 way to the beach sometimes were stopping get gas. She 0:51:47.480 --> 0:51:51.440 brewedleg liquor from a room under the stairs and had 0:51:51.560 --> 0:51:53.160 sold weed out of her room in the back. So 0:51:53.160 --> 0:51:55.680 when I was like ten years old, I could, I could, 0:51:55.760 --> 0:51:58.399 I was separating stems and seeds out of this weed, 0:51:58.520 --> 0:52:02.320 making like in like weighing out dining bags and nickel bags. 0:52:03.400 --> 0:52:06.480 Like at least once a year somebody got shot at 0:52:06.480 --> 0:52:08.239 this place. It was like it was like one of 0:52:08.280 --> 0:52:11.359 these kind of a shack of a store where like 0:52:11.640 --> 0:52:13.439 there's a wood floor, but if there was a hole 0:52:13.440 --> 0:52:15.279 in it, it went straight to the ground kind of thing. 0:52:15.360 --> 0:52:18.239 You know. It was very much a very you know, 0:52:19.560 --> 0:52:25.120 very modest to say the least place. And so we 0:52:25.320 --> 0:52:28.680 that was my grandmother's uh play, And she was a 0:52:28.760 --> 0:52:32.040 character who had never she never drank. And then once 0:52:32.080 --> 0:52:33.920 a year, once every two years, she would go on 0:52:33.960 --> 0:52:36.480 like a two week vendor that would somehow like end 0:52:36.560 --> 0:52:37.880 up with her out in front of the store with 0:52:37.920 --> 0:52:40.399 a gun. Like she was you know, she was either 0:52:40.440 --> 0:52:43.400 like the nicest, sweetest carrying person or just a fucking 0:52:44.040 --> 0:52:47.759 you know, powder cake. So it was interesting, it was 0:52:47.880 --> 0:52:51.759 you know, it was just it was a very interesting thing. 0:52:51.760 --> 0:52:54.840 And then my mom moved us out to Florida. So 0:52:54.920 --> 0:52:57.200 it was at a time where like she got a 0:52:57.239 --> 0:52:59.400 job as a computer programmer, but nobody even knew what 0:52:59.480 --> 0:53:01.680 that was. So they were just hiring people off the 0:53:01.719 --> 0:53:04.040 street and sending them to school to learn because they 0:53:04.040 --> 0:53:05.759 were still doing it with computer cards at the time. 0:53:05.800 --> 0:53:08.719 And if you remember that, time punches all. Yeah, so 0:53:08.760 --> 0:53:10.560 she was learning cobalt and all these and then as 0:53:10.560 --> 0:53:11.960 soon as she'd learned it, there'd be a whole new 0:53:12.000 --> 0:53:15.160 operating system and she'd go to where met And when 0:53:15.239 --> 0:53:19.799 she was sixteen, she lied about her age or for 0:53:19.800 --> 0:53:21.920 a first job and said that she was nineteen. And 0:53:22.040 --> 0:53:24.920 I was born when she was twenty one. My sister 0:53:25.040 --> 0:53:31.359 was born when she was sixteen, and she just kept 0:53:31.400 --> 0:53:33.720 working her way up through these so by the time 0:53:33.960 --> 0:53:37.040 she had passed away, you know, she had moved us 0:53:37.080 --> 0:53:39.480 to a really nice, middle class neighborhood. Like we went 0:53:39.520 --> 0:53:43.440 from living in like the dingy, shitty apartments on that 0:53:43.480 --> 0:53:45.799 side of town that nobody wants to go to to 0:53:46.000 --> 0:53:49.279 like a really nice place in Wakaiva, Florida, which was 0:53:49.360 --> 0:53:52.799 like middle class, beautiful neighborhood. She was the head of 0:53:53.200 --> 0:53:56.399 Q of Quality Assurance for City Bank and for their 0:53:58.200 --> 0:54:01.960 security team in banking. You know, she was very respected, 0:54:04.280 --> 0:54:07.160 and then I think she probably drank herself out of 0:54:07.160 --> 0:54:08.960 a job and then drank herself to death later on. 0:54:11.760 --> 0:54:17.279 Let's go back your grandmother. What were her parents? How 0:54:17.280 --> 0:54:18.360 did she end up there? 0:54:18.840 --> 0:54:22.800 I never knew her father, I knew her I didn't. 0:54:22.880 --> 0:54:24.640 I mean, it was just this magical place that just 0:54:24.680 --> 0:54:27.280 appeared to me. You know. That was where my history 0:54:27.320 --> 0:54:30.000 of my family and everybody began. And it's hard to 0:54:30.000 --> 0:54:32.919 get a straight answer about anything that happened before that. 0:54:33.960 --> 0:54:36.200 You know, my like my I know my aunt. My 0:54:36.239 --> 0:54:41.319 mother had a sister. Her name is Marcella Summers, and 0:54:41.360 --> 0:54:44.920 we used to call her Monkey and she spent she 0:54:45.040 --> 0:54:48.200 spent most of my life in prison in South Carolina 0:54:48.400 --> 0:54:52.759 because she hired a serial killer named pee Wee Gaskins. 0:54:52.760 --> 0:54:55.239 And there's a book about him that's out and she 0:54:55.280 --> 0:54:58.840 actually has a chapter in it. She hired pee Wee 0:54:58.960 --> 0:55:05.919 Gascons to kill her boyfriend over a Dodge two eighty 0:55:06.040 --> 0:55:07.919 Z that like he had given her as a gift 0:55:07.960 --> 0:55:09.920 and they broke up and he took it back. So 0:55:10.000 --> 0:55:13.120 she met with Peewe Gaston's had him killed and then 0:55:13.200 --> 0:55:15.520 shoved into the trunk of that car and then pushed 0:55:15.560 --> 0:55:17.920 the car into the river. But then she got arrested 0:55:17.960 --> 0:55:19.560 for it, and so she spent most of my life 0:55:20.160 --> 0:55:22.200 in prison. So that's the only other family member that 0:55:22.239 --> 0:55:22.720 I knew. 0:55:23.880 --> 0:55:28.480 Okay, the husband of your grandmother, what was his story? 0:55:30.080 --> 0:55:31.919 There was no husband. Since I was a little kid, 0:55:32.600 --> 0:55:37.319 she was. I mean, as far as I knew she 0:55:37.360 --> 0:55:39.440 was asexual, and then I found out later she wasn't. 0:55:39.640 --> 0:55:43.279 But but she no, I never there was never there 0:55:43.320 --> 0:55:45.400 was a husband. I think his name was Floyd, but 0:55:45.480 --> 0:55:48.160 I've never met him. I think, I don't think I've 0:55:48.160 --> 0:55:50.600 seen pictures of him. These are the stories that my 0:55:50.640 --> 0:55:51.480 mom used to tell me. 0:55:52.000 --> 0:55:55.680 Okay, So your grandmother started the shop herself. 0:55:57.200 --> 0:56:02.759 Her, I think her. I don't think it's her father. 0:56:02.760 --> 0:56:07.600 I think it's her stepfather started Willie. It's a great name, really, 0:56:07.640 --> 0:56:11.600 Grandpa Willy. He started the store and then it was 0:56:11.640 --> 0:56:16.360 called Kirby Grocery, and then she took it over. You know, 0:56:16.480 --> 0:56:18.400 years later. I just knew, like when I was born, 0:56:20.120 --> 0:56:22.040 like I pictures of me as a baby in that store, 0:56:22.080 --> 0:56:23.600 So I'm not sure how long she had had it 0:56:23.719 --> 0:56:24.200 before then. 0:56:24.880 --> 0:56:26.080 And what happened to the store. 0:56:27.600 --> 0:56:30.840 I found out later on that had burned out. My 0:56:31.080 --> 0:56:33.719 one of my cousins burned it down for insurance. Like 0:56:33.719 --> 0:56:37.200 here's how my family went. My cousin, one of my 0:56:37.280 --> 0:56:40.280 cousins and his sister got their mother my aunt hooked 0:56:40.280 --> 0:56:44.000 on crack and then they all tried to burn down 0:56:44.000 --> 0:56:47.200 the store for like some insurance money. But I didn't 0:56:47.200 --> 0:56:49.279 know any of this. I took my wife, I think 0:56:49.400 --> 0:56:51.120 we weren't even married yet, and we were going on 0:56:51.160 --> 0:56:52.759 a trip through South Carolina and we reren in her 0:56:52.760 --> 0:56:54.759 car and I was going to go show her, you know, 0:56:54.800 --> 0:56:58.120 this visual history of my you know, my past, and 0:56:58.200 --> 0:57:00.880 we got to the spot where the store was, it 0:57:00.920 --> 0:57:03.759 was just ashes, Like I had no idea. That was 0:57:03.800 --> 0:57:06.759 a devastating moment for me too, Like I just I 0:57:06.760 --> 0:57:10.840 think you just always, like I, throughout my life, I 0:57:10.840 --> 0:57:13.040 would check up on it, Like I would leave home 0:57:13.080 --> 0:57:16.520 when I was like sixteen seventeen and hitchhike from Florida 0:57:16.600 --> 0:57:19.360 up to South Carolina and kind of check in on 0:57:19.920 --> 0:57:24.360 my grandmother and that you know, that little contingent in 0:57:24.400 --> 0:57:29.520 my family, and so I like, I just assumed, I 0:57:29.520 --> 0:57:31.280 guess like people do, that it was just there waiting 0:57:31.280 --> 0:57:33.040 for me always, and then one day I went there 0:57:33.080 --> 0:57:36.080 and it just wasn't there anymore. My only people that 0:57:36.120 --> 0:57:38.240 I in my family really that I still have or 0:57:38.480 --> 0:57:43.120 my sister, who I'm very close to. She's the only 0:57:43.160 --> 0:57:46.720 person in my family that I'm really close to. My father, 0:57:47.320 --> 0:57:50.520 who I have somewhat of a relationship but was certainly 0:57:50.600 --> 0:57:55.600 not close. And that's it. I mean, really, I think 0:57:55.600 --> 0:57:58.920 I've got a cousin that once every two years might 0:57:58.920 --> 0:58:01.760 stop by, know, say hi at a show or something. 0:58:03.040 --> 0:58:05.840 But yeah, that's pretty much my sister and sometimes my dad. 0:58:07.280 --> 0:58:10.439 So did her father ever show up when you grew up. 0:58:11.280 --> 0:58:13.760 My sister's father, Yeah, a couple of times. I actually 0:58:13.760 --> 0:58:15.280 know him. He comes to shows all the time. He 0:58:15.320 --> 0:58:18.880 lives in Chicago. He's a really nice guy. I see him, 0:58:19.520 --> 0:58:23.640 you know, quite often. I my mother, So my mother 0:58:23.720 --> 0:58:28.760 in law and my father in law are really really 0:58:28.800 --> 0:58:31.240 been my family over the last twenty six years. In 0:58:31.360 --> 0:58:35.520 my because I it was the first time I'd ever 0:58:35.600 --> 0:58:39.040 had a relationship. Like when I moved to New York, 0:58:41.320 --> 0:58:44.240 I remember like we would go on the road and 0:58:44.320 --> 0:58:46.760 my wife would call and say, oh, you know, we're 0:58:46.760 --> 0:58:48.480 going home in a couple of days. My mom went 0:58:48.520 --> 0:58:50.600 by the apartment. She cleaned it up, and she like 0:58:50.680 --> 0:58:52.760 restocked the groceries and she, you know, just stuff there. 0:58:53.080 --> 0:58:57.040 And I was legitimately thinking like, like what's her fucking angle, 0:58:57.760 --> 0:59:00.720 you know, like why would somebody do that? And she's like, well, 0:59:01.000 --> 0:59:03.240 she loves us, and she's doing it because you know, 0:59:03.560 --> 0:59:07.520 she cares about us. And I that was just foreign 0:59:07.520 --> 0:59:09.400 to me. And I, you know, when I grew up, 0:59:09.400 --> 0:59:12.040 my mother was young. She admitted, you know, she had 0:59:12.040 --> 0:59:13.440 like I said, she had my sister at sixteen, had 0:59:13.440 --> 0:59:15.320 me in twenty one. There's a whole part of her 0:59:15.360 --> 0:59:18.160 youth that she felt like she missed out on. Then 0:59:18.320 --> 0:59:20.680 when I was like twelve, she got cancer. They thought 0:59:20.680 --> 0:59:22.640 she was going to die. They give her six months 0:59:22.680 --> 0:59:24.160 to live, and she beat it, and then she got 0:59:24.160 --> 0:59:26.439 it again, and then she beat it. And I think 0:59:26.480 --> 0:59:30.000 that all the time in between those moments, she was 0:59:30.040 --> 0:59:33.080 just out there making up for lost time. And so 0:59:33.160 --> 0:59:36.320 that required her to be really really selfish at a 0:59:36.360 --> 0:59:38.960 time when I needed her not to be. And so 0:59:39.640 --> 0:59:43.200 I just never had the experience of someone maternal having 0:59:43.280 --> 0:59:47.919 that kind of care, like maternal care and so ever. 0:59:48.120 --> 0:59:49.680 You know, ever since, like my mother in law has 0:59:49.680 --> 0:59:51.920 become one of my my dearest friends in the world. 0:59:52.080 --> 0:59:53.800 We spend a lot of time together, just her and I. 0:59:53.920 --> 0:59:55.520 We go to shows together, we go out to dinner, 0:59:55.560 --> 0:59:58.520 we hang out all the time. And so I, you know, 0:59:58.640 --> 1:00:00.440 got to got to really estee what I was like. 1:00:01.040 --> 1:00:04.840 So it just my I never really mind my actually 1:00:05.160 --> 1:00:07.800 with except my sister. I never really found it in 1:00:07.800 --> 1:00:08.640 my actual family. 1:00:16.280 --> 1:00:18.720 So when you were growing up, was your father in 1:00:18.800 --> 1:00:19.320 the picture? 1:00:20.920 --> 1:00:23.040 Now I found out litter. I mean, I think my 1:00:23.160 --> 1:00:26.840 dad was scared of my mom in a lot of ways, 1:00:27.160 --> 1:00:30.480 you know, they she was volatile, and I guess I 1:00:30.480 --> 1:00:32.120 didn't know at the time, like I was, I didn't 1:00:32.120 --> 1:00:34.160 have my dad's number. I didn't know why. And it 1:00:34.200 --> 1:00:36.120 turned out because I had it, that my mom would 1:00:36.160 --> 1:00:38.120 get it. Then she might start calling at three o'clock 1:00:38.160 --> 1:00:40.520 in the morning, you know, and harassing him or whatever. 1:00:40.560 --> 1:00:42.880 But I didn't know any of these things. I just 1:00:42.920 --> 1:00:45.360 felt like my dad wasn't around because he just wasn't around. 1:00:45.800 --> 1:00:49.680 And then I think I got I got to a 1:00:49.720 --> 1:00:52.120 certain point where I learned how to live on my own. 1:00:52.240 --> 1:00:54.280 I mean, like literally on my own. Like I left 1:00:54.280 --> 1:00:56.960 home at like seventeen, I was living, you know, in 1:00:57.040 --> 1:01:01.160 friends cars and on friends park benches. And the next 1:01:01.160 --> 1:01:02.360 thing I knew that I was in a band. I 1:01:02.400 --> 1:01:04.840 was living on friends couches, and then we were playing shows, 1:01:04.880 --> 1:01:08.880 and then I never I learned how to not need someone, 1:01:09.640 --> 1:01:11.800 and so then by the time my dad kind of 1:01:11.800 --> 1:01:14.280 came back around, which honestly wasn't until I started to 1:01:14.320 --> 1:01:18.760 do well in music. By the time he came back around, 1:01:19.440 --> 1:01:21.280 I just didn't need that anymore. That wasn't what I 1:01:21.320 --> 1:01:26.240 was looking for in a relationship, you know. And I 1:01:26.280 --> 1:01:28.080 don't know, I'm sure I missed out on some things, 1:01:28.080 --> 1:01:30.360 but I learned to be pretty self sufficient as well. 1:01:30.680 --> 1:01:32.280 And I learned how to make a lot of lemonade 1:01:32.560 --> 1:01:33.680 out of limits when I needed to. 1:01:33.960 --> 1:01:37.840 Okay, you're close to your sister. Your father comes back 1:01:37.880 --> 1:01:43.080 in the picture. You see your sister's father. Are they 1:01:43.280 --> 1:01:47.120 a asking for money? B Do you support them? 1:01:48.440 --> 1:01:52.120 No, My sister has once begrudgingly asked me for money 1:01:52.160 --> 1:01:57.400 and then paid me back. My sister's father's never asked 1:01:57.400 --> 1:02:00.240 me for anything at all. And I said this is 1:02:00.280 --> 1:02:02.320 just a genuinely one of the best people that has 1:02:02.320 --> 1:02:04.720 ever existed in the world. And I think, you know 1:02:04.760 --> 1:02:09.040 her and I we're victims of a trauma together, you know, 1:02:09.120 --> 1:02:11.240 like we went through a lot and through that with 1:02:11.320 --> 1:02:13.800 our mother, you know, and she a lot, a lot 1:02:13.840 --> 1:02:17.160 of kind of rage and violence and uncertainty and being 1:02:17.200 --> 1:02:19.800 gone for days and days and us being alone and 1:02:19.880 --> 1:02:24.200 hunkering down together. That makes you really really close, and 1:02:24.240 --> 1:02:27.520 so the two of us, it drives her husband insane. 1:02:27.920 --> 1:02:30.200 So my sister ran away from home at seventeen years 1:02:30.200 --> 1:02:34.440 old married her twenty one year old boyfriend, which is 1:02:34.480 --> 1:02:38.080 a recipe for disaster, except for the fact that they've 1:02:38.120 --> 1:02:40.360 now been married for over forty years. They're one of 1:02:40.400 --> 1:02:42.640 the closest couples I know. They have kids, their kids 1:02:42.640 --> 1:02:47.160 have kids, They're a great success story. And so it 1:02:47.280 --> 1:02:49.080 drives them insane because when the two of us get 1:02:49.120 --> 1:02:52.840 together and we just start telling these stories about our 1:02:52.920 --> 1:02:57.000 childhood but with a very nonchalant kind of thing, and 1:02:57.040 --> 1:02:58.920 he's just like, the fuck, where the fuck did you look? 1:02:59.000 --> 1:03:02.200 What is this your life? You know? So we both 1:03:02.240 --> 1:03:04.120 realized that we kind of we kind of share that. 1:03:05.880 --> 1:03:07.720 So how old were you when you moved from South 1:03:07.720 --> 1:03:08.840 Carolina to Florida. 1:03:10.320 --> 1:03:15.320 Let's see. I think I was in I want to say, 1:03:16.000 --> 1:03:17.920 six or seventh grade middle school. 1:03:18.680 --> 1:03:22.360 So you're living with your mother. Grandmother is quite a character. 1:03:23.200 --> 1:03:28.880 Father's not around. Does this impact your identity in school? Yeah? 1:03:29.000 --> 1:03:30.760 I think so. I mean in a lot of ways. 1:03:30.760 --> 1:03:33.960 I you know, my mom at the time. So my mom, 1:03:34.040 --> 1:03:36.240 you know, single, So she's dating a lot of guys 1:03:36.920 --> 1:03:41.600 and then kind of become we become whatever she was 1:03:41.720 --> 1:03:44.440 dating at the time. Does that make sense? So like 1:03:44.600 --> 1:03:47.000 when she's dating a biker, we're all bikers right now, 1:03:47.000 --> 1:03:49.960 and she's dating like a businessman, then we're all, you know, 1:03:50.080 --> 1:03:52.440 we need to come on, act like people. Come on. 1:03:54.440 --> 1:03:56.920 I think, you know, having all of this weird turmoil 1:03:56.920 --> 1:04:00.880 at home with my mom, I was acting out a 1:04:00.880 --> 1:04:05.000 lot in school. I didn't it really hit me. I 1:04:05.000 --> 1:04:07.280 think when I was in like ninth grade and a 1:04:07.320 --> 1:04:11.320 guidance counselor pulled me aside and had me come into 1:04:11.360 --> 1:04:14.760 her office and said, so, you know, you can answer 1:04:14.760 --> 1:04:19.840 this however you want, but are your parents alcoholics? And 1:04:19.920 --> 1:04:21.960 I was like, I don't. My mom drinks a lot, 1:04:22.000 --> 1:04:25.320 you know, and she just kind of pegged me as 1:04:25.960 --> 1:04:29.120 this very this is this is this type of personality, 1:04:29.160 --> 1:04:31.360 the type personality comes from this kind of a situation. 1:04:32.800 --> 1:04:36.880 I was definitely every I went to a lot of schools. 1:04:36.920 --> 1:04:39.760 We moved around a lot within Florida. But every school 1:04:39.800 --> 1:04:42.600 I went to, I was the kid who was squandering 1:04:42.640 --> 1:04:45.919 his potential, you know, because I was the kid who 1:04:46.040 --> 1:04:50.120 tested through the roof whenever we do aptitude tests. But 1:04:50.200 --> 1:04:53.880 I never applied myself in anything whatsoever. I you know, 1:04:53.960 --> 1:04:56.680 when I showed up at all, I would I was 1:04:56.720 --> 1:05:01.160 more disruptive than anything else. I would already like starting 1:05:01.200 --> 1:05:03.920 to play music. I had someone I ran into that 1:05:04.040 --> 1:05:07.640 was in a class with me in ninth grade that 1:05:07.720 --> 1:05:10.080 I was explaining to my algebra teacher that I didn't 1:05:10.120 --> 1:05:11.920 need algebra because I was going to be a musician 1:05:12.320 --> 1:05:14.080 and so I didn't really have to worry about that. 1:05:14.600 --> 1:05:16.160 And then she's like, well, who's going to count all 1:05:16.160 --> 1:05:19.120 your money? And I was like, my accountant is going 1:05:19.160 --> 1:05:21.840 to count all my money. It turns out I was 1:05:21.960 --> 1:05:22.480 right about that. 1:05:25.600 --> 1:05:28.680 So you were that kid? Did you have friends? Were 1:05:28.720 --> 1:05:31.480 you popular? Were the loner or the guy who fought? 1:05:31.480 --> 1:05:33.160 What kind of kid were you like in school? 1:05:33.640 --> 1:05:35.600 I was all of those things like I didn't have 1:05:35.640 --> 1:05:39.200 a clique, but I got along very easily, which I 1:05:39.200 --> 1:05:42.160 think is another trade of children of alcoholics. I got 1:05:42.200 --> 1:05:45.360 along very easily with every group. So like on a 1:05:45.360 --> 1:05:47.479 Saturday night, I could go to pretty much any group 1:05:47.520 --> 1:05:49.160 of party and I would be able to come in. 1:05:49.440 --> 1:05:52.960 I knew people pretty much everywhere there. But like you know, 1:05:53.640 --> 1:05:56.080 this group of friends on Saturday afternoons would all get 1:05:56.120 --> 1:05:57.440 together and meet up and go to the beach. I 1:05:57.480 --> 1:05:59.000 was never part of that group, but they would get 1:05:59.000 --> 1:06:00.960 together on Friday night and go to movie. I wasn't 1:06:01.000 --> 1:06:03.200 part of that group. But if there was like a 1:06:03.320 --> 1:06:07.480 general collection, I was always welcome in any of those studies. 1:06:07.880 --> 1:06:08.120 You know. 1:06:08.760 --> 1:06:10.640 And at that point you're in high school, was there 1:06:10.720 --> 1:06:13.640 enough money that if you needed something your mother could 1:06:13.640 --> 1:06:16.400 buy it for you. It was always like an issue 1:06:16.920 --> 1:06:18.040 having money to get shit. 1:06:18.680 --> 1:06:21.040 We had money, but it was mom. It wasn't she 1:06:21.120 --> 1:06:23.800 was big on spending money on herself. Honestly, like my 1:06:24.000 --> 1:06:26.280 drives my wife insane because she'll talk about like she 1:06:26.360 --> 1:06:27.760 did this, and I was like, yeah, I never get 1:06:27.800 --> 1:06:28.920 to do that. I never get to do this. I 1:06:28.920 --> 1:06:34.240 never got to get this. I was I think it 1:06:34.840 --> 1:06:36.960 manifested itself a lot too, and like I got into 1:06:37.000 --> 1:06:39.000 a lot of trouble. I got arrested quite a bit. 1:06:40.680 --> 1:06:42.960 I started to really get like my first I got 1:06:43.000 --> 1:06:46.040 arrested for the first time ever for arm to burglary. 1:06:47.520 --> 1:06:49.000 Okay, tell us this story. 1:06:49.200 --> 1:06:52.520 It sounds worse than it is. Honestly it was. It's 1:06:52.520 --> 1:06:55.120 the thing where we would break into people's homes that 1:06:55.200 --> 1:06:59.720 we knew and rearrange their furniture. You know, we never 1:06:59.760 --> 1:07:01.880 really stole anything, well I can't. Sometimes we would like 1:07:01.920 --> 1:07:04.920 steal a beer. You know, it was we And honest 1:07:05.200 --> 1:07:07.240 when I say this, Bob, I want you to understand now. 1:07:08.200 --> 1:07:10.640 I realized that that if you're a homeowner and you 1:07:10.720 --> 1:07:13.960 come home and that's how it's you feel violated, you 1:07:13.960 --> 1:07:16.240 know what I mean, Like, it's a horrible if I 1:07:16.280 --> 1:07:16.760 grew up. 1:07:16.680 --> 1:07:18.880 Too, is the same thing. One time we went away 1:07:18.920 --> 1:07:22.600 and somebody came in stole Magical Mystery Tour which had 1:07:22.680 --> 1:07:25.880 just come out, and my father's changed first, nothing else. 1:07:26.040 --> 1:07:27.800 They just wanted to break And I know exactly what 1:07:27.800 --> 1:07:30.880 you're talking about. But if it's armed, Rob, where's the gun? 1:07:31.440 --> 1:07:34.760 Well, the gun was in the home. And honestly, it 1:07:34.800 --> 1:07:37.160 was a very scary moment when I think about it, 1:07:37.200 --> 1:07:39.040 because the guy that when the guys I was with 1:07:39.320 --> 1:07:41.960 found this gun, was kind of fucking around with it. 1:07:42.040 --> 1:07:44.000 He's like, no, there's nothing in here, and he was 1:07:44.000 --> 1:07:46.040 pointed at me and I'm like, dude, just don't whatever, 1:07:46.080 --> 1:07:47.720 I don't trust it, don't point it at me. And 1:07:47.760 --> 1:07:50.200 he went like this and he shot it and it 1:07:50.360 --> 1:07:53.680 shot through the through the wall, and I was like, 1:07:53.800 --> 1:07:56.840 holy fuck, and he put the gun back. So because 1:07:56.880 --> 1:07:59.720 there now there this was a break in, but a 1:07:59.760 --> 1:08:03.120 gun was involved, which made it an armed burglar not 1:08:03.160 --> 1:08:06.360 an armed robbery. There's a very big difference. And so 1:08:06.400 --> 1:08:10.120 I got arrested. I remember, I remember what this is 1:08:10.160 --> 1:08:12.720 one of the few moments where I and I think 1:08:12.720 --> 1:08:15.080 it was again because my mother was dating a respectable guy, 1:08:15.560 --> 1:08:17.320 and so because of that, he went the guy she 1:08:17.400 --> 1:08:21.320 was dating on my court date to find out what 1:08:21.400 --> 1:08:23.960 my fate was going to be, went out and got 1:08:24.040 --> 1:08:27.120 me like a suit, the jacket and a tie, you know, 1:08:27.280 --> 1:08:32.439 court suit, and then then let me know as we're 1:08:32.479 --> 1:08:35.960 about to leave that they just were holding on him 1:08:35.960 --> 1:08:38.639 to make me feel nervous because they had already gotten 1:08:38.640 --> 1:08:40.920 the word back. I wasn't going to jail I had 1:08:40.920 --> 1:08:43.960 a certain amount of community hours and this thing on 1:08:44.040 --> 1:08:45.720 my record up until I was like eighteen, and then 1:08:45.760 --> 1:08:47.120 that was the only thing that was going to happen. 1:08:47.640 --> 1:08:49.920 And I just remember, like I still had the picture 1:08:49.960 --> 1:08:52.040 of me in that suit with this look on my 1:08:52.080 --> 1:08:55.960 face and just like ah, like you know, and that 1:08:56.040 --> 1:08:59.599 was one of the I think. I mean, I'm not sure. 1:08:59.600 --> 1:09:01.160 I don't think that was a seminal point in my life. 1:09:01.200 --> 1:09:03.120 I mean, I didn't change anything at that point, but 1:09:03.200 --> 1:09:06.559 it was definitely it's a vivid memory that I what. 1:09:06.520 --> 1:09:08.280 Did your mother say when you got arrested. 1:09:10.360 --> 1:09:13.400 I don't think she was surprised. I mean I wasn't 1:09:13.400 --> 1:09:15.160 hanging out with the like you know, when your mom 1:09:15.200 --> 1:09:17.479 always tells you, you keep hanging out with those guys, 1:09:17.640 --> 1:09:19.360 you're gonna you're gonna wind up dead or in jail. 1:09:19.760 --> 1:09:22.599 I mean she knew that, and luckily it was jail. 1:09:25.040 --> 1:09:27.519 Well, you mentioned a number of rests. What were the 1:09:27.560 --> 1:09:28.480 other arrests? 1:09:29.400 --> 1:09:33.840 Uh? I got arrested once for Steele in a car. 1:09:34.479 --> 1:09:36.120 I gotta I almost got to wrest with once for 1:09:36.160 --> 1:09:39.000 Steele in a house, which is kind of weird, like 1:09:41.360 --> 1:09:45.200 somebody had like gone on vacation and So the neighbor 1:09:45.640 --> 1:09:47.400 was a friend of mine, and the neighbor like broke 1:09:47.439 --> 1:09:50.400 into the house and they just but through a fucking 1:09:50.520 --> 1:09:54.240 rager of a party. I mean, like cars around the block, 1:09:54.360 --> 1:09:58.320 like not subtle in any way whatsoever. And I attend 1:09:58.400 --> 1:10:02.400 this party. But then I wake up and me and 1:10:02.439 --> 1:10:04.479 this girl are like the only people in the house, 1:10:04.479 --> 1:10:07.920 and there's cops beating on the bedroom door. So then 1:10:07.960 --> 1:10:12.840 it's just me, and I'm like, so I just tell 1:10:12.880 --> 1:10:15.160 the cops that I'm from Alabama, that I just came 1:10:15.200 --> 1:10:17.120 in to meet a friend, you know, and I'll go 1:10:17.920 --> 1:10:19.640 get my friend. And I went out the door and 1:10:19.680 --> 1:10:22.240 I just ran as far as I could. And that's 1:10:22.280 --> 1:10:23.799 the last I've heard of that situation. 1:10:25.880 --> 1:10:28.240 Okay, so you ended up dropping out of high school, 1:10:28.280 --> 1:10:29.080 tell us about that. 1:10:30.040 --> 1:10:32.080 I dropped out of high school. I got my ged 1:10:33.720 --> 1:10:35.320 only because I thought that I was going to join 1:10:35.360 --> 1:10:40.400 the army. Like I went to the army recruitment place 1:10:40.720 --> 1:10:43.880 I took I guess what's called the ASPAB, which is 1:10:43.920 --> 1:10:48.000 just like your placement for you know, your aptitude tests 1:10:48.040 --> 1:10:51.320 to join the army. Turns out it's not a it's 1:10:51.360 --> 1:10:54.559 not a very high bar. And I fucking aced it. 1:10:54.600 --> 1:10:56.360 I got like a ninety nine or something on it, 1:10:56.360 --> 1:11:01.880 and it was incredible, and they we're very excited, but 1:11:01.920 --> 1:11:03.040 they said, you know you, but you have to have 1:11:03.080 --> 1:11:05.880 a high school diploma, so you have to go. So 1:11:05.960 --> 1:11:07.880 I went. I didn't I didn't take the class or anything. 1:11:07.880 --> 1:11:10.919 I just went and got a ged and then luckily 1:11:11.920 --> 1:11:16.479 in that time, I met this group of guys. They 1:11:16.520 --> 1:11:19.320 were older, they were seniors in high school age, and 1:11:19.360 --> 1:11:22.000 I was in freshman in high school age, maybe a junior, 1:11:22.360 --> 1:11:25.920 because at this point, at some point I left school. 1:11:26.240 --> 1:11:28.960 But then I tried to come back, like in the 1:11:29.080 --> 1:11:31.120 tenth Like I left like maybe the beginning of tenth grade, 1:11:31.120 --> 1:11:32.600 and I tried to come back by the beginning of 1:11:32.640 --> 1:11:34.639 junior year kind of thing. But it didn't last long, 1:11:36.040 --> 1:11:38.120 and I wound up, you know, meeting these guys. One 1:11:38.160 --> 1:11:44.000 of them was graduating that year and going to Berkeley 1:11:44.360 --> 1:11:45.280 the next year. 1:11:45.800 --> 1:11:48.080 Berkeley College of Music and Music. 1:11:48.240 --> 1:11:52.759 Yeah, yeah, Berkeley ee of Boston that my son later 1:11:52.840 --> 1:11:58.600 graduated from. And so it was through them that like 1:11:59.240 --> 1:12:01.960 I started like learning how to He would give me 1:12:02.040 --> 1:12:03.840 all of his music books, so I would learn like 1:12:04.160 --> 1:12:06.880 chord structure and some music theory, you know, mixed with 1:12:07.400 --> 1:12:09.639 you know, with practical books of how to play music 1:12:09.640 --> 1:12:12.960 and teaching myself song by song, you know, every chord 1:12:13.040 --> 1:12:15.120 and every notation in this song that I know, and 1:12:15.160 --> 1:12:17.800 then this song and you know, and just keep doing 1:12:17.840 --> 1:12:20.479 that and doing that. I wasn't really writing yet. I 1:12:20.560 --> 1:12:22.800 was singing songs that these guys were writing, or we 1:12:22.800 --> 1:12:27.519 were doing covers and playing like eighteen and underclubs in Florida, 1:12:27.800 --> 1:12:32.800 you know, those kind of a and it just I mean, 1:12:33.080 --> 1:12:35.040 that was just it. That was I felt like this 1:12:35.200 --> 1:12:38.200 was what I wanted to do. I knew it immediately 1:12:38.520 --> 1:12:41.000 from the first time that I just started playing. I 1:12:41.040 --> 1:12:43.600 was like this, they just spoke to me, you know, 1:12:44.360 --> 1:12:47.280 And yeah, I mean I think it wasn't for that. 1:12:47.479 --> 1:12:50.080 I mean, honestly, I was the only reason I wanted 1:12:50.080 --> 1:12:52.760 to join the Army was because when you were in 1:12:52.960 --> 1:12:54.760 when we were in high school, where did you grow up? 1:12:55.600 --> 1:12:56.280 Connecticut? 1:12:56.640 --> 1:12:57.880 All right? So I don't know if they did this 1:12:57.920 --> 1:13:01.479 in Connecticut, but like there would be a day once 1:13:01.520 --> 1:13:04.479 a year where you go out to like the pavilion 1:13:04.560 --> 1:13:07.639 or wherever outdoors, you know, lunch section or maybe in 1:13:07.439 --> 1:13:10.800 the cafeteria, and there was a band set up, like 1:13:10.840 --> 1:13:14.200 a full band. They're playing like you're like hits from today, 1:13:15.240 --> 1:13:17.760 but they're all in Army fatigues and they're all the 1:13:17.880 --> 1:13:18.599 Army band. 1:13:18.880 --> 1:13:21.519 You know, I went to high school in the Vietnam era. 1:13:21.640 --> 1:13:23.000 Believe me, that wasn't happening. 1:13:23.160 --> 1:13:26.439 Okay, yeah, okay, So this was like their recruitment catch. 1:13:26.600 --> 1:13:29.920 It was like, hey, look how fucking cool the Army is. Man. 1:13:29.960 --> 1:13:32.240 We're laid back, We're just like you. We're playing Terrence 1:13:32.240 --> 1:13:35.880 Trent Darby man, you know, like we're fucking we're playing 1:13:35.880 --> 1:13:38.320 the cure like this is where your people. You can 1:13:38.360 --> 1:13:40.040 come to the Army. You want to do this? And 1:13:40.080 --> 1:13:43.280 I was like, oh that shit worked on me immediately. 1:13:43.280 --> 1:13:45.080 I was like, oh, I could be this this, but 1:13:45.120 --> 1:13:46.920 I can all but I can join the Army and 1:13:46.920 --> 1:13:48.920 and have a you know, figure out what I'm going 1:13:48.960 --> 1:13:51.200 to do with my life and my even though my dad, 1:13:51.200 --> 1:13:52.880 who was in the Army, the only piece of advice 1:13:52.920 --> 1:13:55.160 he ever gave me was never joined the army. And 1:13:55.240 --> 1:13:57.120 I was this close to. I was this close to 1:13:57.160 --> 1:13:59.960 doing it. Like those recruitment videos, man, they really do work. 1:14:00.040 --> 1:14:00.840 If you're out of options. 1:14:02.400 --> 1:14:05.120 Usually, once they get their hooks in you, they don't 1:14:05.200 --> 1:14:08.479 let you go that easily. Usually they track you down 1:14:08.560 --> 1:14:10.600 to try to join. When you said you weren't going 1:14:10.680 --> 1:14:12.479 to join, they keep coming after you. 1:14:12.840 --> 1:14:14.800 I think it's a lot easier to track you now. 1:14:14.880 --> 1:14:16.519 Well now it's a lot easier in general, but it's 1:14:16.520 --> 1:14:19.280 a lot easier if you haven't addressed like you know, 1:14:19.720 --> 1:14:21.160 I was pretty fluid at the time. 1:14:28.720 --> 1:14:30.920 Okay, So where did this music thing start? 1:14:33.280 --> 1:14:38.240 I really don't know. I mean, I I remember, like 1:14:38.280 --> 1:14:41.400 my sister saying that when I was like ten, eight 1:14:41.439 --> 1:14:45.200 to ten, I would I would like write little songs 1:14:45.240 --> 1:14:47.559 and I would put on little shows for my parents, 1:14:47.640 --> 1:14:50.240 you know, or for my sister for like cause it 1:14:50.280 --> 1:14:53.560 was okay, this is another story that's going to sound satisfyed, 1:14:53.600 --> 1:14:56.080 but I there's no other way to tell it. So, 1:14:56.120 --> 1:14:58.640 like one of the things was, like, you know, growing up, 1:14:58.640 --> 1:15:02.000 when I was in like, you know, eighth grade, beginning 1:15:02.040 --> 1:15:04.360 ninth grade, my mom, you know, she'd be out, she 1:15:04.360 --> 1:15:06.840 would meet some guys. She'd bring them home and then 1:15:07.000 --> 1:15:11.120 wake me up at you know, one in the morning 1:15:11.760 --> 1:15:14.640 to like keep him company and like go play a 1:15:14.680 --> 1:15:17.120 song on your keyboard. So I'm like performing for some 1:15:17.200 --> 1:15:19.960 stranger while my mom goes and changes I goes. It 1:15:20.000 --> 1:15:23.639 was a weird kind of thing, but it it gave 1:15:23.720 --> 1:15:26.920 me the sense of like, oh wow, like this is 1:15:26.960 --> 1:15:28.880 this is where my mom has her pride in me, 1:15:29.600 --> 1:15:33.320 you know. And so when I perform that mean you 1:15:33.360 --> 1:15:36.479 know that that's I get this rush of endorphins of like, oh, 1:15:36.600 --> 1:15:39.760 you know, I feel and that never went away, that 1:15:40.240 --> 1:15:43.680 you know, that need for you know, for that I 1:15:44.920 --> 1:15:49.000 that what is it? Robin Williams caught it like the 1:15:49.000 --> 1:15:50.720 the kind of love that you can only the kind 1:15:50.720 --> 1:15:52.439 of a hug that you can only get from a stranger, 1:15:53.040 --> 1:15:55.040 you know, like I learned to I learned to really 1:15:55.280 --> 1:15:59.680 crave that, uh during that time. But I think it was, 1:15:59.720 --> 1:16:03.360 you know, maybe the fact that it was these guys 1:16:03.360 --> 1:16:05.360 that I met to me they were really cool. Like 1:16:05.400 --> 1:16:08.320 they weren't degenerates like my other group of friends. They 1:16:08.320 --> 1:16:10.360 were they still had fun, They still were out drinking, 1:16:10.360 --> 1:16:11.960 they were partying, they were doing but they there was 1:16:12.000 --> 1:16:14.240 a wholesome noess about it, and there was a camaraderie 1:16:14.280 --> 1:16:17.559 and a fraternal order to it that was really really cool, 1:16:17.640 --> 1:16:21.439 you know. And uh and so and they like when 1:16:21.520 --> 1:16:23.640 I would talk about, you know, well, we're gonna go 1:16:23.640 --> 1:16:26.439 out and we're gonna you know, like we're gonna vandalize this, 1:16:26.479 --> 1:16:28.200 and we're gonna do this there would they looked at 1:16:28.200 --> 1:16:30.320 me with like such disappointment, like, oh, come on, man, 1:16:30.360 --> 1:16:33.280 that's not not cool, you know, And I wanted to 1:16:33.400 --> 1:16:35.639 I wanted them to like me, you know, this older 1:16:35.720 --> 1:16:37.759 group of guys that thought I was cool. I wanted 1:16:37.760 --> 1:16:41.320 them to like me. So I think, you know, just 1:16:41.320 --> 1:16:44.519 like everybody else, I you could trace everything back to 1:16:44.640 --> 1:16:49.120 needing some you get something you need from from a situation, 1:16:49.200 --> 1:16:51.920 and you keep chasing that feeling, you know. And so 1:16:52.160 --> 1:16:55.200 music really I felt I felt that like that that 1:16:55.600 --> 1:16:58.639 little missing piece they kept every time I was around music, 1:16:58.720 --> 1:17:01.360 every time I was playing music. It kind of filled 1:17:01.400 --> 1:17:03.880 that hole for me a little bit, and still does. 1:17:04.000 --> 1:17:07.320 Honestly, what about music lessons learning how to play the piano, 1:17:07.439 --> 1:17:10.080 the guitaris. 1:17:09.200 --> 1:17:11.479 I wish that I had taken them, honestly. I mean, 1:17:11.520 --> 1:17:15.800 I I'm a pretty good piano player. I wish that 1:17:15.880 --> 1:17:18.280 I had taken piano because it wouldn't take me as 1:17:18.320 --> 1:17:20.160 long to get it, you know, to get better at it. 1:17:20.479 --> 1:17:24.160 I wish I had taken guitar, but I'm like a 1:17:24.600 --> 1:17:27.200 really shitty guitar player. Like at some point, if I'm 1:17:27.200 --> 1:17:29.760 writing a song on the guitar, I might have to 1:17:30.760 --> 1:17:32.439 put it down and go to the piano because I hit, 1:17:32.479 --> 1:17:33.960 I hit a chord that I know that I want 1:17:33.960 --> 1:17:36.200 to get to, but I don't know it on the 1:17:36.280 --> 1:17:38.519 on the guitar. You know, Like, now I've got it 1:17:38.560 --> 1:17:40.400 down to a science where I could play in front 1:17:40.400 --> 1:17:43.200 of twenty thousand people, and if I know the song, 1:17:43.280 --> 1:17:45.880 I will fool even you to look like I know 1:17:45.920 --> 1:17:49.879 what the hell I'm doing, you know, but I tell everybody. 1:17:50.040 --> 1:17:52.400 You know, when you always get asked questions about advice 1:17:52.400 --> 1:17:54.720 for young musicians things like that, it's like, no matter 1:17:54.760 --> 1:17:59.080 how uncool it seems, go take the lessons, learn the road, 1:17:59.360 --> 1:18:01.759 you know, like learn and learn all of these basic 1:18:01.920 --> 1:18:03.839 things that's going to make your life so much easier. 1:18:04.040 --> 1:18:06.759 And no matter how cool the guitarist, start on the piano, 1:18:06.800 --> 1:18:08.880 because if you start on the piano, you can pivot 1:18:08.920 --> 1:18:13.040 to almost any instrument because the music makes more sense 1:18:13.080 --> 1:18:14.559 to you. It's laid out on the piano the same 1:18:14.600 --> 1:18:16.439 way it is on the page. And you know, if 1:18:16.439 --> 1:18:18.000 you know what I'm saying, like there's a there's a 1:18:18.000 --> 1:18:19.960 certain sense where the skills are all just right there 1:18:19.960 --> 1:18:20.479 in front of you. 1:18:21.880 --> 1:18:25.000 Okay, you're gonna go in the army. You meet these 1:18:25.040 --> 1:18:29.320 guys going to Berkeley. So what's the next step. How 1:18:29.320 --> 1:18:31.599 do you ultimately perform? 1:18:32.000 --> 1:18:34.759 Well, we play a lot of like, you know, friends parties, 1:18:35.360 --> 1:18:36.799 Like I said, these kind of like. 1:18:38.080 --> 1:18:40.360 And what's your role? Are you the front guy. 1:18:40.600 --> 1:18:44.559 On the front guy? Like? Okay? Our songs are like Hunger, 1:18:44.680 --> 1:18:51.200 like the Wolf Lady in Red's Tall Cool and remember 1:18:51.200 --> 1:18:55.160 the Robert Plant solo Tall Cool One. I'm only saying 1:18:55.200 --> 1:18:57.479 these to give you a sense of reference of the time, 1:18:57.640 --> 1:19:00.800 right this absolutely these kind of eighty songs mixed in 1:19:00.840 --> 1:19:02.720 with stuff like old time rock and roll and things 1:19:02.720 --> 1:19:05.360 that we ass like we gotta we gotta gig one time. 1:19:07.080 --> 1:19:08.639 One of the fun of the times I quit school 1:19:08.720 --> 1:19:15.080 is because all Right, the keyboard player, his family knew 1:19:16.160 --> 1:19:19.160 how had family friends that owned a sheraton in Vero 1:19:19.360 --> 1:19:22.519 Beach and needed a band to play by the pool. 1:19:24.080 --> 1:19:27.839 And so we were the pool band in this sheraton 1:19:27.920 --> 1:19:29.800 in Vero Beach. And then we got to stay at 1:19:29.840 --> 1:19:33.719 the hotel and we imploded within a week. Within a week, 1:19:33.880 --> 1:19:35.799 we had figured out how to break in to steal 1:19:35.800 --> 1:19:38.479 all the liquor from the places I was. I was, 1:19:38.800 --> 1:19:42.360 I was sleeping with the owner's daughter. Like the whole 1:19:42.360 --> 1:19:45.519 thing just fell around us. And I remember the owner 1:19:46.120 --> 1:19:50.439 she had like broken English, and she was like pulled 1:19:50.520 --> 1:19:52.559 us in and they're just so disappointed and yelling at 1:19:52.600 --> 1:19:54.920 us across the dead and she's just going, you you 1:19:55.000 --> 1:19:57.720 are not the stars. Maybe one day, one day you 1:19:57.760 --> 1:19:59.439 will be the stars. But right now, you are not 1:19:59.520 --> 1:20:03.439 the stars. And we got fired from that. So we 1:20:03.439 --> 1:20:09.160 were doing these kind of gigs and then I like 1:20:09.439 --> 1:20:12.040 they went off. We had a band called Tidal Wave, 1:20:12.160 --> 1:20:17.040 which was a we would play metal clubs and it 1:20:17.120 --> 1:20:21.640 was all like punk versions of like surf songs. So 1:20:21.720 --> 1:20:23.880 it was like like the covers would be like Wily Bully, 1:20:24.320 --> 1:20:26.799 but like these like amped up versions of Willly Bully. 1:20:27.640 --> 1:20:29.479 And it was a bunch of these guys from Jersey 1:20:29.520 --> 1:20:32.000 that had come down. So this was like after the 1:20:32.000 --> 1:20:33.720 guy went to Berkeley the first year, he came back 1:20:33.760 --> 1:20:35.559 in the summer and brought some guys from Berkeley back. 1:20:35.800 --> 1:20:38.360 We started Tidal Wave, these guys from Jersey that had 1:20:38.400 --> 1:20:40.800 never been to the fucking beach, writing all these songs 1:20:40.840 --> 1:20:43.080 about like Johnny's Got a Wave and me and my 1:20:43.160 --> 1:20:45.360 surfer girl. They were all these you know, and we 1:20:45.360 --> 1:20:48.040 would play these metal band metal clubs, and the metal 1:20:48.080 --> 1:20:50.080 clubs would love us because we had so much energy. 1:20:50.120 --> 1:20:52.040 We were just fucking running and jumping on the bar 1:20:52.120 --> 1:20:54.360 and just like fucking ah, and they just thought it was, 1:20:54.520 --> 1:20:56.240 you know, the greatest thing in the world. They didn't 1:20:56.280 --> 1:21:01.240 like the music, and so we had that going. Eventually, 1:21:01.240 --> 1:21:02.680 that whole thing, you know, it was it was just 1:21:02.760 --> 1:21:04.200 kind of dependent on them when they were home for 1:21:04.240 --> 1:21:06.960 the summers and things like that. And so I started 1:21:07.000 --> 1:21:10.920 to just get jobs, like normal jobs, restaurants, a lot 1:21:10.960 --> 1:21:13.120 of construction in Florida, like working as a roofer and 1:21:13.200 --> 1:21:18.160 drywall and painting and those kind of things. And then 1:21:19.040 --> 1:21:21.920 I started writing again on my piano. I was hitchhiking 1:21:21.960 --> 1:21:24.240 a little bit here and there. I had this little 1:21:24.320 --> 1:21:27.000 keyboard that I still have over here that I was 1:21:27.080 --> 1:21:28.760 like on the I remember, like three o'clock in the morning, 1:21:28.760 --> 1:21:30.080 I would sit on the side of the road my 1:21:30.120 --> 1:21:32.920 little keyboard, you know, working out songs. Three Am was 1:21:32.960 --> 1:21:36.920 a song that came during that time. And so I 1:21:37.080 --> 1:21:39.880 meet with a couple of guys that are local guys 1:21:39.920 --> 1:21:46.040 who we started talking about starting a band. I really 1:21:46.200 --> 1:21:48.120 really started to get into the idea. I started writing 1:21:48.160 --> 1:21:50.400 a few more songs, and we put an ad out 1:21:50.439 --> 1:21:54.200 in the local jam magazine, which was like the regional 1:21:54.680 --> 1:22:02.280 you know, rock magazine for a drummer. I had met Brian, 1:22:02.360 --> 1:22:06.479 our bass player already, this guy John and Jay who 1:22:06.479 --> 1:22:10.080 are these two guitar players when we'd just gone to Berkeley, 1:22:11.880 --> 1:22:14.400 and Paul, who later again became my best friend, who 1:22:14.479 --> 1:22:19.720 was our drummer for twelve years, answered the ad and 1:22:19.760 --> 1:22:23.080 that was how Matchbox twenty we were tabbing the Secret 1:22:23.160 --> 1:22:26.200 at the time. And then that was like that was 1:22:26.240 --> 1:22:28.120 when we were the first like band where it was 1:22:28.160 --> 1:22:30.479 like we were doing gigs on the rag. We were 1:22:30.479 --> 1:22:32.640 playing regionally. We'd get the band and trailer and go 1:22:32.680 --> 1:22:34.840 play gigs in Tennessee and go play gigs in North 1:22:34.880 --> 1:22:39.320 Carolina and South Carolina. We had become like kind of 1:22:39.320 --> 1:22:42.200 the big local band, which doesn't mean a lot, It 1:22:42.240 --> 1:22:45.120 just means that like sometimes if like Hoody and the Blowfish, 1:22:45.439 --> 1:22:47.360 you know, they were just blowing up at the time, 1:22:47.800 --> 1:22:50.240 if they would come through town and didn't have an opener, 1:22:50.360 --> 1:22:52.320 we would be the band that they would get called 1:22:52.360 --> 1:22:53.920 to come in and open up. So we get to 1:22:53.920 --> 1:22:56.559 do it like we put like we opened for Ween 1:22:57.120 --> 1:22:59.479 one time, which is great, we opened for Cake like 1:22:59.600 --> 1:23:05.000 there's things great, you know, for us, and then that 1:23:05.040 --> 1:23:12.360 band imploded as bands due but luckily the three of 1:23:12.439 --> 1:23:14.840 us still me, Brian and Paul still kind of shared 1:23:14.840 --> 1:23:19.800 a vision. And then that's when I meet Matt Serlenik, 1:23:20.760 --> 1:23:23.920 who at the time it just had some success with 1:23:24.000 --> 1:23:29.680 Collective Soul and was looking for a new band. His 1:23:29.840 --> 1:23:34.920 brother went to college in Orlando, saw our band. Matt 1:23:34.960 --> 1:23:39.680 came to check us out. He signed me to a 1:23:39.680 --> 1:23:44.559 production deal, and then Atlantic Records wanted to sign me 1:23:45.320 --> 1:23:51.679 to deal through him, and I was a little scared 1:23:52.000 --> 1:23:56.000 to sign my own deal. So my only prerequisite was 1:23:56.000 --> 1:23:57.120 that I would do it, but I had to do 1:23:57.120 --> 1:23:59.439 it with Paul and Brian. So the three of us 1:24:02.320 --> 1:24:06.800 had a deal before we had a name, and then 1:24:06.840 --> 1:24:11.360 we uh, we signed. We signed the deal. We find 1:24:11.400 --> 1:24:13.320 we go in a search, We find these two guitar 1:24:13.320 --> 1:24:15.800 players that that we really like and we get along with. 1:24:15.880 --> 1:24:20.559 And then I it became very litigious this situation with 1:24:20.640 --> 1:24:24.000 the other two guitar players. I didn't understand copyrights, and 1:24:24.080 --> 1:24:26.200 so one of the guys in this band would take 1:24:26.240 --> 1:24:28.840 all these songs that I had written, draw up copyright 1:24:28.920 --> 1:24:31.400 forms and bring them in for us all to sign, 1:24:32.200 --> 1:24:36.160 and so I just would sign away, you know, three 1:24:36.240 --> 1:24:38.280 quarters to you know, to everybody else in the band. 1:24:39.080 --> 1:24:43.320 And so they were kind of holding those songs over 1:24:43.400 --> 1:24:45.639 me when I got the deal, and like, we're gonna 1:24:45.640 --> 1:24:48.600 sue you because these are our things. And and so 1:24:48.680 --> 1:24:51.240 the only thing I could think to do was I 1:24:51.320 --> 1:24:55.240 just wrote another record, so like and thank god, because 1:24:55.280 --> 1:24:58.240 that first record wasn't great. Like they always say that 1:24:58.280 --> 1:25:01.200 you have your whole life up to write your first 1:25:01.240 --> 1:25:03.160 record and that's why the second record is so hard. 1:25:03.200 --> 1:25:06.400 But in all honesty, Bob, I wrote my first record 1:25:06.439 --> 1:25:08.800 was my second record, and I had six months to 1:25:08.840 --> 1:25:12.400 write it. So we would just spend all of our 1:25:12.479 --> 1:25:13.960 time because we knew that we didn't have a lot 1:25:14.000 --> 1:25:16.320 of money to be in a studio, even though we 1:25:16.360 --> 1:25:18.280 had more than we thought, like we got like four 1:25:18.320 --> 1:25:20.639 hundred thousand dollars or something, you know, for the deal 1:25:20.680 --> 1:25:22.719 to go make the record. We spend it all almost 1:25:22.760 --> 1:25:25.680 all in the record in gear, but we wanted to 1:25:25.720 --> 1:25:27.400 be able to step in there, so we would spend 1:25:27.920 --> 1:25:31.720 hours every day in like a actual shed, shedding these 1:25:31.720 --> 1:25:33.559 songs so that we could play them live. I would 1:25:33.560 --> 1:25:35.719 write a new song, we'd bring it into the band. 1:25:35.880 --> 1:25:38.240 We would learn that song so we could play it 1:25:38.240 --> 1:25:40.920 off book like, you know, not spend too much time 1:25:40.920 --> 1:25:43.760 in the studio. And so by the time we went 1:25:43.800 --> 1:25:46.200 in the studio that that whole first yourself or someone 1:25:46.280 --> 1:25:48.600 like you was all written. And the only thing that 1:25:48.640 --> 1:25:50.680 I kept was three Am, just because that song meant 1:25:50.680 --> 1:25:53.680 a lot to me. And you know, it's funny is 1:25:53.720 --> 1:25:57.960 to this day like Pooky from Matchbox all them any 1:25:58.040 --> 1:26:00.519 proceeds he gets heat because he thinks it's ridiculous. He 1:26:00.560 --> 1:26:03.400 didn't write it. So any proceeds gets from three Am, 1:26:04.120 --> 1:26:05.000 he gives it to charity. 1:26:08.920 --> 1:26:15.880 Okay, let's go back. You signed a deal with Matt Surletic, 1:26:16.120 --> 1:26:16.800 yes or no? 1:26:17.840 --> 1:26:19.280 Yes, a production deal? 1:26:19.880 --> 1:26:24.120 Okay? Was that just you or was that the three 1:26:24.160 --> 1:26:24.400 of you? 1:26:26.160 --> 1:26:27.639 It was the three of us? It was all around 1:26:27.640 --> 1:26:30.800 the same time. So we signed with them. We signed 1:26:30.840 --> 1:26:34.519 with Atlantic Atlantic. It turns out, so Matt was going 1:26:34.560 --> 1:26:40.080 to produce the record. Atlantic Records wasn't as comfortable about 1:26:40.120 --> 1:26:44.839 giving these three guys from Florida four hundred thousand dollars, 1:26:45.160 --> 1:26:49.200 but they were more comfortable doing it through Matt Serletic 1:26:49.280 --> 1:26:51.439 and his production companies since they had, you know, a 1:26:52.200 --> 1:26:54.640 collective Soul was on Atlantic at the time, so they 1:26:54.680 --> 1:26:56.800 had already had some success with Matt. So that was 1:26:56.840 --> 1:27:00.200 where the production deal had come in. Was they weren't 1:27:00.240 --> 1:27:02.240 ready to secure a straight deal with US in Atlantic, 1:27:02.280 --> 1:27:04.160 but they were willing to do it as a production deal. 1:27:04.680 --> 1:27:08.799 Okay, Traditionally traditional production deal, you're signed to production company. 1:27:08.800 --> 1:27:12.040 Production makes a deal with Atlantic and they take a whack, 1:27:12.840 --> 1:27:15.880 so the act actually makes less. Is that what happened 1:27:15.880 --> 1:27:17.040 throughout your career. 1:27:18.240 --> 1:27:20.599 Up into a certain point, Like I mean, Matt still 1:27:20.680 --> 1:27:23.120 gets money whether he produces a record or not, that's 1:27:23.120 --> 1:27:24.920 always in the deal. But he found us, and then 1:27:24.920 --> 1:27:28.599 that's that we agreed. That's why you agree on those 1:27:28.600 --> 1:27:30.920 things early on, because you're hoping for the success, not 1:27:31.000 --> 1:27:32.720 that when the success comes later you're like, oh, we 1:27:32.800 --> 1:27:35.960 have to read you know. But you know, to Matt's credit, 1:27:36.479 --> 1:27:42.920 he did change his payment fee so that because it 1:27:43.040 --> 1:27:45.439 turns out like if we were splitting money and he 1:27:45.520 --> 1:27:48.439 was getting paid like on the gross, he would make 1:27:48.479 --> 1:27:53.200 more money than any individual member, right. And when we 1:27:53.560 --> 1:27:55.280 kind of sat and talked with him, because it man 1:27:55.280 --> 1:27:58.400 had him with us for many years. Matt restructured his 1:27:58.479 --> 1:28:01.240 deal so that he was just a six member and 1:28:01.280 --> 1:28:04.960 then everything we do would be equal. And that was 1:28:05.000 --> 1:28:07.080 fine because you know, we were and now this is 1:28:07.080 --> 1:28:08.679 the time, you know, we were playing live. We're making 1:28:08.720 --> 1:28:12.160 most of our money live and merchandising and publishing. That 1:28:12.320 --> 1:28:15.280 was money he wasn't seeing. So that was I thought 1:28:15.320 --> 1:28:16.840 that was really big of him. 1:28:17.040 --> 1:28:20.480 Okay, how about the publishing? Do you own all the publishing? 1:28:21.960 --> 1:28:23.800 I own what I haven't sold? 1:28:24.720 --> 1:28:26.800 Was that a little bit slower? When you made the 1:28:26.800 --> 1:28:29.600 deal with Matsroletic and ultimately Link, did you have to 1:28:29.640 --> 1:28:30.800 give up any publishing? 1:28:31.280 --> 1:28:31.920 No? None. 1:28:32.640 --> 1:28:34.479 Okay, so you own a one hundred percent of the public 1:28:34.560 --> 1:28:36.479 machine you have sold some of that? 1:28:37.760 --> 1:28:40.840 Yeah, I'm now I've made a deal with Roundhill where 1:28:40.840 --> 1:28:44.200 I sold off like seventy percent. I still retain thirty 1:28:44.360 --> 1:28:47.200 because I still want to participate in success, you know. 1:28:47.360 --> 1:28:50.400 Okay, just to be clear, seventy percent of the songs 1:28:50.479 --> 1:28:53.719 or seventy percent of the record royalties are. 1:28:53.560 --> 1:28:57.640 Both just just the songwriting publishing part of it. 1:28:58.720 --> 1:28:59.920 How long would you make that deal? 1:29:01.920 --> 1:29:04.799 Right before COVID? I think so, I would say twenty 1:29:04.920 --> 1:29:06.120 nineteen to the twenty. 1:29:06.439 --> 1:29:09.240 Okay, so you're happy you made that deal five years later? 1:29:10.520 --> 1:29:13.439 Yeah, I mean, you know, like I I was, I 1:29:13.520 --> 1:29:17.519 had been with you know, with with uh EMI for 1:29:17.560 --> 1:29:21.600 a really long time, and I start to find that, 1:29:21.680 --> 1:29:23.040 like as you know, as we get older and you 1:29:23.080 --> 1:29:26.439 fall out of favor a giant corporation like that, when 1:29:26.479 --> 1:29:28.519 they start thinking about songs for sak when they start 1:29:28.560 --> 1:29:30.800 thinking about the artists either at the top of their mind, 1:29:31.120 --> 1:29:32.879 I don't it's hard for you to be there anymore 1:29:33.120 --> 1:29:35.200 because they have the fresh and the new, you know, 1:29:35.720 --> 1:29:37.760 And so I thought it was a really good time 1:29:37.800 --> 1:29:39.600 for me to kind of be a part of a 1:29:39.760 --> 1:29:42.719 smaller family that was thinking about me a little bit more. 1:29:43.560 --> 1:29:46.320 And Evan Lamberg had already left and gone off to Universal, 1:29:46.640 --> 1:29:49.080 and Evan, you know, was my main reason for signing 1:29:49.120 --> 1:29:51.479 with EMI in the first place. So it you know, 1:29:51.600 --> 1:29:53.519 it was an easy decision to make. Even though the 1:29:53.520 --> 1:29:56.880 EMI guys, which later on became EMI Sony, they've always 1:29:56.920 --> 1:30:08.200 been amazing. So what you do with the money, I 1:30:08.240 --> 1:30:09.360 don't have to tell you that. 1:30:11.800 --> 1:30:13.240 You have to tell me anything. 1:30:14.240 --> 1:30:16.559 No, I mean, I listen, I've I've my wife and 1:30:16.600 --> 1:30:20.360 I we were we're really well invested. We we were 1:30:20.360 --> 1:30:23.120 not crazy spenders. We're not we don't take a lot 1:30:23.160 --> 1:30:25.760 of risks are investing. You know, we've we've managed to 1:30:26.120 --> 1:30:29.920 maintain and grow everything really really well. So you know, 1:30:30.000 --> 1:30:34.679 like it's we're not I'm never really I never thought 1:30:34.680 --> 1:30:36.840 about money as the means to own anything. It was 1:30:36.880 --> 1:30:40.120 always like money was a means for experiences, you know, 1:30:40.160 --> 1:30:42.360 like I would I would. I love being able to 1:30:43.280 --> 1:30:45.640 take vacations with my family and take people out. I 1:30:45.680 --> 1:30:47.599 love being able to go to nice dinners and bring 1:30:47.640 --> 1:30:51.639 everybody together and have this moment. But I don't really 1:30:51.720 --> 1:30:54.240 need to own very much. You know, we have a 1:30:54.320 --> 1:30:56.120 nice house, we have a nice car in the garage. 1:30:56.479 --> 1:30:59.040 That's we're good, you know where we need to be. 1:30:59.120 --> 1:31:01.160 I don't like, I don't mean much status symbol. 1:31:01.840 --> 1:31:03.559 Well, let me put it a different way. You get 1:31:03.560 --> 1:31:06.320 a big check, did you buy anything or you just 1:31:06.400 --> 1:31:07.320 invest all of it? 1:31:07.960 --> 1:31:09.719 No, I just it just went back in the pile 1:31:09.760 --> 1:31:13.800 with the rest. I mean, I already I've already been 1:31:13.800 --> 1:31:17.040 like we'd already done been doing really really well. This 1:31:17.240 --> 1:31:19.519 was just a it was just kind of one of 1:31:19.520 --> 1:31:21.640 those things of like, well let's let's look at the 1:31:21.720 --> 1:31:25.080 landscape of music. Let's let's start to understand the power 1:31:25.120 --> 1:31:29.840 of your catalog back when, but even just when you 1:31:29.840 --> 1:31:33.840 could when the greatest hits made sense, right, which you 1:31:33.880 --> 1:31:36.320 know now the greatest hits is it doesn't exist anymore 1:31:36.360 --> 1:31:38.439 because I can get your greatest hits. I can just 1:31:38.439 --> 1:31:40.960 go on Spotify and I make your greatest hits, which 1:31:41.040 --> 1:31:43.559 every way I want to, I can find everything that's 1:31:43.600 --> 1:31:48.519 out there. The the value is probably you know, it 1:31:48.560 --> 1:31:53.439 still exists in sync and things like that. But for 1:31:53.479 --> 1:31:56.479 that for that stuff to be valuable, people need to 1:31:56.920 --> 1:31:59.200 be working it and people need to you know, to 1:32:00.080 --> 1:32:03.240 be actively working on your catalog. And so that to 1:32:03.280 --> 1:32:05.760 me was I think was the reason, Like it just 1:32:05.800 --> 1:32:08.879 doesn't have the value the ownership of it. The songs 1:32:09.360 --> 1:32:12.000 are still there, and that connection that I have every night, 1:32:12.280 --> 1:32:15.799 like we're gonna have a show at the Prudential Center Thursday, 1:32:16.000 --> 1:32:18.080 that connection is still going to be there. That doesn't 1:32:18.080 --> 1:32:20.519 go away. And that's the one you know, that I 1:32:21.200 --> 1:32:24.920 own forever. There's not really more that I have the 1:32:24.960 --> 1:32:27.880 benefit from from owning that publishing, and I think a 1:32:27.880 --> 1:32:30.040 lot of artists are starting to realize that now as well. 1:32:30.360 --> 1:32:32.800 You hear about these maze you know, people like Springsteen, you. 1:32:32.800 --> 1:32:37.479 Know, right, so your songs round he'll own seventy percent. 1:32:38.280 --> 1:32:40.960 Is there anything you say that they can't do with them? 1:32:42.640 --> 1:32:46.519 I have? Yeah. I have the complete right to say 1:32:46.600 --> 1:32:48.120 no to any like if they want to use it 1:32:48.160 --> 1:32:50.760 in some way that I don't want. I have the 1:32:50.840 --> 1:32:52.519 complete say over how they get used. 1:32:54.280 --> 1:32:56.439 Just generally speaking, what would you say no to? 1:32:59.240 --> 1:33:01.800 The first thing that popping in mind would probably be 1:33:03.280 --> 1:33:06.720 something political that I don't agree with, like that, you know, 1:33:06.760 --> 1:33:10.639 that would be a problem for me. You know, maybe 1:33:10.720 --> 1:33:16.200 certain uh, pharmaceutical you know, commercials, maybe that I don't 1:33:16.520 --> 1:33:20.280 officially totally agree with. You just you never know when 1:33:20.320 --> 1:33:21.800 just something's going to be like I do. I don't 1:33:21.880 --> 1:33:24.080 like that look for me, you know, Like I'm not 1:33:24.680 --> 1:33:27.639 like Carlos and I always joke like we're not we're 1:33:27.680 --> 1:33:30.639 not ready for Smooth to be an x Lax commercial 1:33:30.760 --> 1:33:35.439 just yet, like we gotta we gotta call once where 1:33:35.439 --> 1:33:38.800 it was like it was a commercial for Smooth and 1:33:38.880 --> 1:33:42.160 it was like a Mercedes commercial, but it was kind 1:33:42.200 --> 1:33:45.960 of like the Vibe where the guys listening to Smooth 1:33:46.840 --> 1:33:48.800 and then the hot girl goes by and listening to 1:33:48.880 --> 1:33:53.880 Maria Cabo or whatever, you know, and and we're like, yeah, no, 1:33:54.080 --> 1:33:56.240 like that's you know, that's that's We're not ready to 1:33:56.240 --> 1:33:58.040 put that nail in that coffin just yet. You know, 1:33:58.120 --> 1:34:00.680 we're still we're still trying to keep the illusional. But 1:34:00.800 --> 1:34:03.280 the third time, when smooth comes back around, you know, 1:34:03.280 --> 1:34:04.000 and it's cool again. 1:34:05.240 --> 1:34:07.200 How'd you hook up with Michael Lipman who's on the 1:34:07.200 --> 1:34:07.880 West Coast. 1:34:10.439 --> 1:34:13.320 He was managing Macheletic because he managed his producers at 1:34:13.360 --> 1:34:16.360 the time as well. Michael had had a lot of success, 1:34:16.360 --> 1:34:18.320 but the only thing that he had never done was 1:34:18.360 --> 1:34:22.120 take a band from zero. He never had a brand 1:34:22.160 --> 1:34:24.400 new band, and that was just something he always wanted 1:34:24.439 --> 1:34:26.839 to do, and so he took us on as that project. 1:34:27.200 --> 1:34:30.800 He honestly, it was so similar in everything that we did. 1:34:30.840 --> 1:34:32.920 He came to see us the first time he ever 1:34:32.920 --> 1:34:35.960 saw us play live, walked backstage and said, well, how 1:34:36.000 --> 1:34:38.840 much money did you get from your publishing And I said, well, 1:34:38.880 --> 1:34:41.559 I think I got about four hundred thousand. He goes, 1:34:41.960 --> 1:34:45.559 My advice to you is put that money away and invested, 1:34:45.880 --> 1:34:47.720 because it's all the money you're ever going to see. 1:34:47.800 --> 1:34:49.599 If this is how you think a show should be played. 1:34:52.360 --> 1:34:57.639 And then he quit and he walked out of the room. 1:34:57.840 --> 1:35:00.840 And then and then we called him and begged them 1:35:00.880 --> 1:35:03.120 to come back. And then I think like a week 1:35:03.200 --> 1:35:05.720 later he I got into a fight because he I 1:35:05.800 --> 1:35:07.720 just didn't think that it mattered what clothes you wore 1:35:07.720 --> 1:35:09.600 in a video. I was like, nobody cares about what 1:35:09.640 --> 1:35:11.880 they you know, you wear, and Mike was like, last night, 1:35:12.000 --> 1:35:14.519 He's like, he tell me always the story, Like, you know, 1:35:14.560 --> 1:35:17.320 you know Bruce Springsteen. You think that Bruce Springstein just 1:35:17.360 --> 1:35:19.840 wears any jeans and any T shirt. He's like, you 1:35:19.840 --> 1:35:21.840 don't think that he's got the exact right teams and 1:35:21.880 --> 1:35:24.679 the exact you know is the trust me. Everybody cares. 1:35:25.320 --> 1:35:28.080 It just depends on how you show it, you know. 1:35:28.160 --> 1:35:30.040 And I remember walking out of the restaurant fucking you, 1:35:30.120 --> 1:35:31.880 fuck you. You know. We quit on each other quite 1:35:31.880 --> 1:35:36.000 a few times. But he's been very much a paternal 1:35:36.160 --> 1:35:37.639 figure throughout my entire life. 1:35:38.880 --> 1:35:43.439 Okay. What I remember was, especially in LA, there ended 1:35:43.560 --> 1:35:47.040 up being an acoustic version of Push, which they played 1:35:47.080 --> 1:35:50.760 in a top forty on the FM station. Was that 1:35:50.840 --> 1:35:53.360 an anomaly? Although there are you know, once Napster hit, 1:35:53.400 --> 1:35:56.519 there were a million versions now on YouTube. Is that 1:35:56.560 --> 1:35:59.559 a factor in the success of Push, the acoustic version? 1:36:00.120 --> 1:36:03.400 No, no, no, it was a product of it Push. 1:36:03.479 --> 1:36:05.360 I mean the reason why Push was a success is 1:36:05.360 --> 1:36:09.679 because it was nineteen ninety six ninety seven and Dave Rossi, 1:36:09.760 --> 1:36:12.760 who ran I think the edge in Birmingham, Like it 1:36:12.840 --> 1:36:14.639 was at a time where if you're a programmed director 1:36:14.760 --> 1:36:18.200 of a record of a radio station, you could play 1:36:18.960 --> 1:36:21.479 something because you liked it. You know, there wasn't like 1:36:21.520 --> 1:36:23.680 a formatted you know, you weren't part of a conglomerate. 1:36:23.720 --> 1:36:27.840 It wasn't formatted what you needed to play. And he 1:36:28.120 --> 1:36:30.759 on his own, like we put that long day, the 1:36:30.840 --> 1:36:32.840 label put money into it, we made a video, it 1:36:32.880 --> 1:36:35.559 was on MTV. The song just tanked, it didn't do well, 1:36:36.040 --> 1:36:39.880 and Dave Rossi just started playing Push on his own 1:36:40.600 --> 1:36:44.840 and in Birmingham it became the number one song. Like 1:36:44.920 --> 1:36:47.439 we were playing everywhere to like moderate people. And then 1:36:47.439 --> 1:36:49.719 we showed up Birmingham. There's a line around the block 1:36:50.160 --> 1:36:53.519 to see us play. And Atlantic was we were on 1:36:53.560 --> 1:36:57.000 the chopping block to begin with, because the day our 1:36:57.040 --> 1:37:00.439 record came out was the day lava folded into it. Atlantic. 1:37:00.920 --> 1:37:04.120 It was Jason and Atlantic took Jason Flohm into Atlantic, 1:37:04.680 --> 1:37:06.519 and they absolved just a couple of bands. It was 1:37:06.560 --> 1:37:10.320 like Us, Sugar, Ray, Kid Rock and Edwin McCain. I 1:37:10.320 --> 1:37:12.840 want to say I like the bands that they kept, 1:37:13.560 --> 1:37:16.439 but we all knew that we were on the chopping block, 1:37:17.360 --> 1:37:19.760 and so when long they didn't work out, it was like, oh, 1:37:19.960 --> 1:37:21.840 like we were just waiting for the call any day, 1:37:22.560 --> 1:37:24.400 and because of Push, they were like, let's let's just 1:37:24.400 --> 1:37:27.200 give this single a chance. And then everything from that 1:37:27.360 --> 1:37:31.599 moment on was just exponentially. Every week we just started 1:37:31.640 --> 1:37:33.040 to get bigger and bigger and bigger. 1:37:34.960 --> 1:37:40.120 Okay, you had success and it was Matchbox with the 1:37:40.280 --> 1:37:44.040 number two. Oh and then it was changed to spelled 1:37:44.320 --> 1:37:47.000 twe n t y. What was that about? 1:37:48.760 --> 1:37:51.519 Paul? I just liked the way it looked better, Like 1:37:51.560 --> 1:37:55.240 it was funny that we weren't. I think Michael made 1:37:55.240 --> 1:37:58.679 more of a deal of it than and like put 1:37:58.680 --> 1:38:00.519 out like a release and all this stuff like that 1:38:00.600 --> 1:38:02.880 wasn't anything that we did. Michael was just always trying 1:38:02.880 --> 1:38:04.559 to find a way to get somebody to write about us, 1:38:04.640 --> 1:38:08.160 you know, and like I remember like seeing that, like 1:38:08.520 --> 1:38:11.200 I guess in Touch magazine or in Style whatever, they 1:38:11.240 --> 1:38:13.680 would always have like a loser of the week, and 1:38:13.720 --> 1:38:16.360 we were the loser of the week because we we 1:38:16.439 --> 1:38:19.160 made a joke that we thought was clearly a joke 1:38:19.200 --> 1:38:21.559 that we were we were so tired of being compared 1:38:21.600 --> 1:38:24.320 to bands like Some forty one and Blink one eighty two, 1:38:24.680 --> 1:38:29.040 which was so obvious we'd never have in our entire life. 1:38:29.200 --> 1:38:31.599 And so I guess whoever heard that rote like as 1:38:31.680 --> 1:38:34.000 if da da da da da, and we're just like, oh, 1:38:34.040 --> 1:38:35.760 you have no sense of humor at all, you know, 1:38:35.800 --> 1:38:38.920 you don't get us at all. So yeah, it was 1:38:39.000 --> 1:38:41.799 that was an aesthetic choice, just purely an aesthetic choice. 1:38:41.840 --> 1:38:43.240 And we and we still keep it. We just like 1:38:43.240 --> 1:38:45.639 the way it looks better. We like twenty written out, 1:38:45.640 --> 1:38:47.680 and we like it in a lowercase bawd. That's just 1:38:48.040 --> 1:38:49.080 the kind of people we are. 1:38:50.040 --> 1:38:54.160 Okay, tell me. The story behind Push Push. 1:38:54.120 --> 1:39:00.960 Was just a song about manipulation, you know, about power 1:39:01.000 --> 1:39:08.800 in a relationship, about how people can use you know, 1:39:08.840 --> 1:39:10.600 the fact that they know that someone loves you and 1:39:10.640 --> 1:39:12.799 they can use that to manipulate you, and how sometimes 1:39:14.720 --> 1:39:16.679 you get so used to it that you can mistake 1:39:16.720 --> 1:39:21.719 that for love. Sometimes. It was written about a situation 1:39:21.840 --> 1:39:25.720 that I was in at the time where I was 1:39:25.800 --> 1:39:28.720 the I feel like I was, you know, the one. 1:39:28.760 --> 1:39:30.840 But I also didn't feel like anybody wanted to hear 1:39:30.880 --> 1:39:34.120 a song with a guy bellowing about being a victim. 1:39:34.240 --> 1:39:36.280 So it was kind of like written as a third 1:39:36.880 --> 1:39:40.519 third party, you know, like she said, I don't know 1:39:40.560 --> 1:39:42.080 if you know it's fact. It was almost like a 1:39:42.080 --> 1:39:44.280 fly on the wall of me looking at this relationship, 1:39:44.400 --> 1:39:49.160 you know, And there was a little blowback I think 1:39:49.160 --> 1:39:51.120 at the time. I mean, it was a pretty aggressive 1:39:52.600 --> 1:39:55.639 I think in that kind of nineties manufactured angst kind 1:39:55.640 --> 1:39:57.760 of way that a lot of us were, you know, 1:39:57.840 --> 1:39:59.280 it was in that kind of like well this is 1:39:59.280 --> 1:40:01.760 how we expressed ourselves. No no, no, no, no, no no. 1:40:04.680 --> 1:40:07.160 But it was genuine, you know, like it came from 1:40:07.160 --> 1:40:12.560 a real place in melody and lyric wise, and it 1:40:12.640 --> 1:40:15.200 scratched that it's at the time, it's it's a I mean, 1:40:15.240 --> 1:40:18.000 obviously for so many reasons, it's been a really important song. 1:40:18.040 --> 1:40:22.479 It's an amazing thing now to see, you know, fourteen 1:40:22.520 --> 1:40:25.040 and fifteen year olds like kind of light up when 1:40:25.040 --> 1:40:29.080 we play it at a show, maybe partially because of Barbie. 1:40:29.760 --> 1:40:33.760 You know, what was the real situation that inspired the song. 1:40:35.800 --> 1:40:40.000 Uh. I mean I think that you know, if you're 1:40:40.160 --> 1:40:41.760 if you were me at that time, and like you 1:40:42.960 --> 1:40:48.479 your prospects were potential, right like, if this whole thing 1:40:48.560 --> 1:40:50.800 that you're working on works out, within the sky's the limit. 1:40:51.680 --> 1:40:53.760 But chances are, like everybody likes to tell you it's 1:40:53.800 --> 1:40:56.479 not going to you know, because it doesn't. You know, 1:40:56.600 --> 1:40:58.240 it doesn't work out ninety percent of the time, and 1:40:58.360 --> 1:41:01.080 so you know, if it hadn't worked out, I would 1:41:01.120 --> 1:41:03.439 be the guy just living on my friends couches. So 1:41:04.160 --> 1:41:07.280 any relationship that I was in, I didn't have a 1:41:07.360 --> 1:41:09.720 whole lot of control over it, you know. I was 1:41:09.720 --> 1:41:11.680 always just kind of being led by my emotions and 1:41:11.800 --> 1:41:13.600 just lucky if somebody felt like somebody liked me and 1:41:13.640 --> 1:41:15.559 wanted to spend time with me, and so that would 1:41:15.560 --> 1:41:17.960 always put me in a position where I could be 1:41:18.080 --> 1:41:22.040 manipulated very very easily or discarded, you know, because I 1:41:22.080 --> 1:41:25.479 didn't really I didn't. I wasn't someone that I think 1:41:25.520 --> 1:41:27.200 that I wasn't so many that people took like a 1:41:27.240 --> 1:41:27.880 serious person. 1:41:28.560 --> 1:41:33.960 You know, you wrote the first album very quickly because 1:41:34.040 --> 1:41:37.080 you discarded the songs with a previous band. How much 1:41:37.200 --> 1:41:41.160 pressure did you feel on the follow up album. 1:41:43.880 --> 1:41:48.080 Uh, you know at first none. I mean I think 1:41:48.080 --> 1:41:50.760 you know the whole idea when you're young and you're 1:41:50.800 --> 1:41:54.240 doing something like this, it's that native atay, right, it's 1:41:54.280 --> 1:41:56.080 the what you don't know or you don't realize it 1:41:56.160 --> 1:41:58.760 actually gives you the strength to kind of go like, 1:41:58.840 --> 1:42:00.800 of course I'm gonna make it. You got to have 1:42:01.320 --> 1:42:03.599 you have to have a little bit of narcissism because 1:42:03.640 --> 1:42:06.120 you have to believe that other people should listen to 1:42:06.160 --> 1:42:08.280 what it is you have to say. And you have 1:42:08.439 --> 1:42:11.360 to like suspend disbelief to some degree because you have 1:42:11.479 --> 1:42:13.920 to believe against all odds that you're you're going to 1:42:13.960 --> 1:42:15.000 be the one of the ones that make it. Of 1:42:15.080 --> 1:42:20.439 course you are. When the first record, though, did so well, 1:42:21.520 --> 1:42:23.439 it worked the opposite way because when you get that 1:42:23.560 --> 1:42:26.160 kind of success right off the bat, everybody is like, well, 1:42:26.520 --> 1:42:28.400 that's not going to happen, and it doesn't. I mean, 1:42:28.520 --> 1:42:30.160 they're right, you're not going to sell twenty million records 1:42:30.200 --> 1:42:33.240 again and fifteen million records again. But it's pretty much 1:42:33.240 --> 1:42:35.439 a guarantee that oh that's a you know, if not 1:42:35.560 --> 1:42:38.519 a one hit wonder, that's a one record you know 1:42:38.920 --> 1:42:41.479 moment and that was that time in the nineties. There's 1:42:41.520 --> 1:42:43.559 a lot of bands selling ten million records. Back then, 1:42:43.840 --> 1:42:46.040 the presidents of the United States of America just on 1:42:46.240 --> 1:42:50.960 Lump and Peaches sold ten million records, you know. And 1:42:51.000 --> 1:42:52.800 then so everybody would like to let you know, it's 1:42:52.800 --> 1:42:54.960 probably not going to happen. So then you're like, oh, well, shit, 1:42:55.040 --> 1:42:58.280 maybe it's not gonna happen. I knew that I was 1:42:58.320 --> 1:43:00.519 writing some really good stuff. I had already written Bent. 1:43:01.120 --> 1:43:02.880 I knew that Bent, you know it was a good song. 1:43:04.200 --> 1:43:05.880 I knew that if You're Gone was a good I 1:43:05.960 --> 1:43:10.479 knew that these songs were solid. I also knew that 1:43:10.520 --> 1:43:17.760 that didn't necessarily matter. I think that magic moment of 1:43:17.880 --> 1:43:23.800 smooth right in the middle was a huge thing that 1:43:24.040 --> 1:43:25.960 kind of kept people's eyes on, well, let's give it 1:43:26.000 --> 1:43:29.240 a chance and see what happens. And then so then 1:43:29.400 --> 1:43:32.479 we're at the very beginning of the early odds. We 1:43:32.560 --> 1:43:36.240 put out our first single on the second record, and 1:43:36.360 --> 1:43:39.160 it's our first number one hit, like our first actual 1:43:39.280 --> 1:43:45.920 number one song, and that felt good. And then that 1:43:46.240 --> 1:43:50.800 record did amazingly well for especially for that that being 1:43:50.840 --> 1:43:55.840 in that situation as sophomore record and going, ah, you know, 1:43:56.360 --> 1:44:00.960 four singles deep in there. That was the moment where 1:44:00.960 --> 1:44:04.240 I kind of felt like we really started to build 1:44:04.280 --> 1:44:07.040 a career. You know, like if you on your first 1:44:07.080 --> 1:44:09.840 you have some success on your first record. I mean, 1:44:09.880 --> 1:44:13.120 that's that's a journey, that's an adventure, and it buys 1:44:13.200 --> 1:44:16.920 you a ticket to get in to see how you 1:44:17.000 --> 1:44:19.280 could if you can take the ride, and then you 1:44:19.400 --> 1:44:24.840 get on the ride, and then you know, we didn't 1:44:24.840 --> 1:44:26.880 throw up. You know, we held it together, We mastered 1:44:26.920 --> 1:44:28.960 the ride, and by the time we got into our 1:44:29.040 --> 1:44:32.040 third record, we were the band that we wanted to be. 1:44:33.000 --> 1:44:35.160 Like that third record with bride lights and unwell and 1:44:36.640 --> 1:44:39.720 sounds like so sad, so like that was like all 1:44:39.880 --> 1:44:43.400 we felt like, this is this really feels like we've 1:44:43.680 --> 1:44:46.479 kind of settled into the adult versions of the band 1:44:46.520 --> 1:44:49.360 that we want to be and we were allowed that. 1:44:49.479 --> 1:44:51.120 We were allowed allowed to do that, by the way, 1:44:51.160 --> 1:44:53.679 which is you know, it doesn't you're not always lucky 1:44:53.760 --> 1:44:55.839 enough to you know, a lot of bands find their stride, 1:44:56.439 --> 1:44:58.880 you know, three four records in, but they don't get 1:44:58.920 --> 1:45:02.040 that opportunity to now as much as they used to then. 1:45:02.120 --> 1:45:05.320 So we're really really fortunate because even then, I mean 1:45:05.720 --> 1:45:09.200 then wasn't now, But without that success that would have happened, 1:45:09.240 --> 1:45:11.080 we would have been dropped probably what you know, if 1:45:11.080 --> 1:45:12.760 Push had never happened, we would have been dropped and 1:45:12.840 --> 1:45:15.040 never really gotten to figure out what our true potential was. 1:45:15.800 --> 1:45:20.479 Now, eventually the landscape changes completely, but the hits are 1:45:20.640 --> 1:45:23.960 not as many at number? How does that feel? How 1:45:24.000 --> 1:45:27.559 do you cope with that? Emotionally fine? 1:45:27.680 --> 1:45:31.080 I mean, we're it's it doesn't take a genius to realize, 1:45:31.120 --> 1:45:35.360 like there's a moment where we're still doing well. Third record, 1:45:36.120 --> 1:45:38.400 we're still doing well, and we don't sound like everything 1:45:38.439 --> 1:45:40.760 else that's on the radio around us. Like if you 1:45:40.800 --> 1:45:43.680 look at a screenshot, it's like Nelly, you know, it's 1:45:43.680 --> 1:45:46.120 a bunch of like Southern rabbits and then unwell, as 1:45:46.200 --> 1:45:48.120 you know, it's kind of in there. But you don't 1:45:48.160 --> 1:45:51.240 have to be a genius to to listen to music 1:45:51.280 --> 1:45:52.960 and go like, oh, well, this isn't what we're doing, 1:45:53.800 --> 1:45:58.960 you know, like this this is not this aesthetic like 1:45:59.040 --> 1:46:01.479 we give part of it, you know, having talent, having 1:46:01.520 --> 1:46:03.920 good songs has to be it. But also for some 1:46:04.080 --> 1:46:07.320 sort of success, your aesthetic has to fit the aesthetic 1:46:07.560 --> 1:46:10.320 of what kind of what's happening right then in the zeitgeist, 1:46:10.320 --> 1:46:11.880 and that was something that happened for us at that 1:46:12.000 --> 1:46:17.519 time when it went over like we we didn't. Also, 1:46:17.600 --> 1:46:19.599 we didn't love everything those popular, so we were kind 1:46:19.600 --> 1:46:20.960 of glad that we didn't sound like that, and we 1:46:21.000 --> 1:46:23.960 weren't going to go chasing that sound. And so I 1:46:24.000 --> 1:46:25.400 think one of the things that we did early on 1:46:25.640 --> 1:46:30.240 was we we were very very conscious of trying not 1:46:30.320 --> 1:46:32.280 to sound anything like what was happening on the radio, 1:46:32.360 --> 1:46:36.919 but also not sound like our previous records, and realized 1:46:36.960 --> 1:46:40.360 that at this point we'd love it if you know, 1:46:40.479 --> 1:46:42.360 if you can if you have some success on the radio. 1:46:43.800 --> 1:46:48.000 But we had massed a group of people who had 1:46:48.000 --> 1:46:49.599 an interest in what it is. We had to say, 1:46:50.640 --> 1:46:54.439 you know, let's just let's tend to that garden all 1:46:54.479 --> 1:46:56.479 the time. Let's make sure that we keep these people 1:46:56.520 --> 1:46:59.160 to good with us. And over the years, those people 1:46:59.200 --> 1:47:01.519 have brought their kids, and their kids are bringing their kids. 1:47:02.160 --> 1:47:07.519 And I mean when we were really, really young, if 1:47:07.560 --> 1:47:09.360 you would have told us at the very very beginning, 1:47:09.479 --> 1:47:12.519 when we were super hungry, that you know, eventually you're 1:47:12.520 --> 1:47:13.800 going to have a career, but it's going to come 1:47:13.840 --> 1:47:17.160 along with a sense of nostalgia. We would have thought 1:47:17.200 --> 1:47:19.439 that was sad, and then we realized that, like, you know, 1:47:19.520 --> 1:47:22.519 that's that is ninety percent of the favorite music and 1:47:22.600 --> 1:47:24.760 bands that we've grown up with that have a career 1:47:24.800 --> 1:47:26.360 to this day. There you know, so many bands out there, 1:47:26.400 --> 1:47:28.360 there are still they go out on tour, they're still 1:47:28.360 --> 1:47:30.960 selling ten thousand seats, They're still enjoying a really good life. 1:47:31.000 --> 1:47:32.439 Their songs are being place to put you know what 1:47:32.479 --> 1:47:36.760 I mean. They're just not a part of this immediate 1:47:36.840 --> 1:47:42.040 conversation anymore. And almost nobody, I mean you have. I 1:47:42.120 --> 1:47:45.599 call them the one percent, you know, these beyonces, these 1:47:45.640 --> 1:47:53.000 tailors that are usually successful, and every time they do something, 1:47:53.040 --> 1:47:58.240 they maintain a part of that conversation, right, And that 1:47:58.880 --> 1:48:02.080 seems tiring. It seems like it takes an entire village 1:48:02.160 --> 1:48:05.240 to make that happen, you know, and it certainly doesn't 1:48:05.240 --> 1:48:08.120 sound like something that happens by doing the thing that 1:48:08.200 --> 1:48:10.960 I love, which is sitting in my studio writing and 1:48:11.040 --> 1:48:13.000 writing until I get a song that really excites me, 1:48:13.439 --> 1:48:16.000 following that thread, making that into a record like that, 1:48:16.120 --> 1:48:17.720 to me is the thing that I love about it. 1:48:18.439 --> 1:48:20.320 And that's how I wound up getting to where I 1:48:20.439 --> 1:48:24.320 got to. It's just that no matter what I do, like, 1:48:24.400 --> 1:48:27.839 I'm not going to be that part of that conversation anymore. 1:48:28.439 --> 1:48:31.160 And that's okay. In fact, I don't even know what 1:48:31.200 --> 1:48:35.479 it would be like, because that conversation now is happening 1:48:35.520 --> 1:48:38.320 on such a broader, wider level, Like you know, I 1:48:39.160 --> 1:48:42.559 think about it like how we used to. We used 1:48:42.560 --> 1:48:44.200 to have this point of entrigue when you put out 1:48:44.240 --> 1:48:46.439 a record of music that was kind of like a funnel, 1:48:46.880 --> 1:48:48.640 and you and your label and your team would get 1:48:48.640 --> 1:48:50.880 together and you'd be like, well, we're gonna release this 1:48:51.000 --> 1:48:53.720 song at this time on this place, and then we're 1:48:53.760 --> 1:48:56.679 gonna put it out everywhere, and you have control over 1:48:56.800 --> 1:48:59.720 every little aspect, you know. And it was so even 1:48:59.720 --> 1:49:02.080 when you you were like really really famous, you were 1:49:02.120 --> 1:49:03.920 in a smaller playing field. Like what you and I 1:49:03.960 --> 1:49:06.040 talked about earlier in this conversation was a much smaller 1:49:06.080 --> 1:49:10.240 playing field that was out there. Now that that funnel 1:49:10.320 --> 1:49:12.960 is a callnder and you put something in it and 1:49:13.080 --> 1:49:15.200 it just goes where it goes and it comes in 1:49:15.439 --> 1:49:19.280 and you don't have really I don't know what. I 1:49:19.320 --> 1:49:22.479 don't know what it's like to be famous. I know, 1:49:22.560 --> 1:49:24.640 what it's like to have some famous music. I know 1:49:24.720 --> 1:49:27.439 what it's like to be famous in the room that 1:49:27.560 --> 1:49:30.240 I rented, you know, I know what it's famous to 1:49:30.280 --> 1:49:32.160 be like to be famous in front of that twenty 1:49:32.240 --> 1:49:35.519 thousand people that came to see me do this thing. 1:49:36.479 --> 1:49:39.000 But I don't know what it's like to be famous 1:49:39.680 --> 1:49:43.639 in that sense where like my life is scrutinized this whole, 1:49:43.760 --> 1:49:47.160 you know, like it's your brand. Somebody the other day 1:49:47.280 --> 1:49:49.200 was like, why don't you have sneakers with the name 1:49:49.280 --> 1:49:52.720 on because I'm not sneaker famous, motherfucker. Like that's not 1:49:52.840 --> 1:49:55.000 something you just do, you know, you just side and 1:49:55.080 --> 1:49:56.599 I'm mak a sneakers, I'm a name on them. 1:49:57.960 --> 1:50:01.160 Let's switch gears. It's the twenty fiftheen verse we of Smooth. 1:50:01.320 --> 1:50:05.519 According to Billboard, it's the third most played song in history, 1:50:05.640 --> 1:50:09.000 after Blinding Lights by the Weekend and The Twists by 1:50:09.400 --> 1:50:12.000 Chubby Checker. He started to tell the story, tell the 1:50:12.080 --> 1:50:14.600 story now, how smooth came to. 1:50:14.680 --> 1:50:18.920 Be well, first of a fucking good for the Weekend, right, Like, 1:50:19.560 --> 1:50:24.439 just jump right up there pretty damn quick. I you know, 1:50:24.520 --> 1:50:26.800 originally I was just supposed to write smooth. I wasn't 1:50:26.800 --> 1:50:28.439 going to be a singer on it. I just sang 1:50:28.520 --> 1:50:32.560 on the demo and I was even in Carla in 1:50:32.600 --> 1:50:39.240 Clive's office having the conversations about who was going to 1:50:40.439 --> 1:50:43.519 sing it. You know, we flirted around. I flirted around 1:50:43.520 --> 1:50:47.040 George Michael. I really wanted George to do it. I 1:50:47.120 --> 1:50:51.040 think bon Jovi's name came up at some point and 1:50:51.160 --> 1:50:53.040 it was Carlos, who had no idea who I was, 1:50:53.120 --> 1:50:54.880 but liked my voice on the demo. That was like, well, 1:50:54.960 --> 1:50:57.960 let's does he sing? And they're like, yeah, he's in 1:50:58.000 --> 1:51:00.160 a band, you know, and it call us a like 1:51:00.400 --> 1:51:02.559 He's like, I I believe him, Let's just have him 1:51:02.600 --> 1:51:07.599 do it. And then that was kind of it. I Mean, 1:51:07.640 --> 1:51:11.240 the funniest part of that whole thing is the twenty 1:51:12.280 --> 1:51:16.719 five years later now, you know, I'll still have nights 1:51:17.120 --> 1:51:20.200 till midnight where my wife's laughing because me and Carlos 1:51:20.280 --> 1:51:23.160 are still up texting each other, you know, stupid videos 1:51:23.240 --> 1:51:27.439 and songs and you know, fucking strange emojis and making 1:51:27.600 --> 1:51:30.280 plans to to do things that you know, records that 1:51:30.320 --> 1:51:33.000 were never gonna make. He's just become like one of 1:51:33.080 --> 1:51:36.400 my like one of my brothers. And in the relationship 1:51:36.439 --> 1:51:38.640 that I've wound up with with Clive Davis, who is 1:51:38.680 --> 1:51:42.640 my neighbor. But you know, Clive is like, if I 1:51:42.720 --> 1:51:44.400 make a new record, I've never I've never been on 1:51:44.520 --> 1:51:47.240 his label, never had anything to do with him, but 1:51:47.360 --> 1:51:51.639 he had me help honor him at Carnegie Hall about 1:51:51.640 --> 1:51:54.720 a month ago. If I make a new record, I 1:51:54.800 --> 1:51:56.400 go to client's house or his office and we sit 1:51:56.479 --> 1:51:58.840 and we listen to the record, you know, together. Like 1:51:58.920 --> 1:52:01.439 He's just been a real great mentor that I met 1:52:01.960 --> 1:52:06.040 at a time where I was much more porous than 1:52:06.080 --> 1:52:08.200 I probably am now and much more spongy, and so 1:52:09.000 --> 1:52:11.320 I you know, it was a really good time to 1:52:11.479 --> 1:52:15.360 meet those people in my life because I learned from 1:52:15.479 --> 1:52:18.639 Carlos early on the difference between being a famous musician 1:52:18.760 --> 1:52:22.439 and being a celebrity, and that being a famous musician 1:52:22.880 --> 1:52:25.120 is what you've always wanted. I want people to hear 1:52:25.160 --> 1:52:26.840 my music. I want more people to hear it. I want, 1:52:26.920 --> 1:52:29.200 you know, I want my song to be part of 1:52:29.240 --> 1:52:31.439 people's lives, and the way that my favorite music is 1:52:31.439 --> 1:52:33.640 a part of mine. And then the rest of it 1:52:33.760 --> 1:52:36.679 is all bullshit, like none of it really matters except 1:52:36.760 --> 1:52:37.120 for that. 1:52:38.920 --> 1:52:43.320 Okay, the band Matchbox twenty made a number of records. 1:52:43.760 --> 1:52:47.479 You've made solo records, You've gone on tour solo, You've 1:52:47.520 --> 1:52:51.800 gone with Matchbox twenty live. What does the future hold? 1:52:53.479 --> 1:52:55.040 I mean, right now I can only see right in 1:52:55.080 --> 1:52:58.160 front of my face. So next year is the twentieth 1:52:58.200 --> 1:53:03.160 anniversary of my first solo record, So I am just finishing, 1:53:04.600 --> 1:53:08.080 just finishing the writing, and we're deep into the recording 1:53:08.200 --> 1:53:12.240 of a new solo record. And then the very next 1:53:12.360 --> 1:53:16.160 year is the thirtieth anniversary of the first Matchbox twenty record, 1:53:17.120 --> 1:53:20.840 and we're trying to figure out what that means for us. 1:53:21.520 --> 1:53:23.599 We want to do something. We just toured last summer, 1:53:24.160 --> 1:53:26.160 which because I think because we hadn't been out in 1:53:26.280 --> 1:53:29.080 so many years, we hadn't been out since like twenty seventeen. 1:53:29.160 --> 1:53:31.840 I think it was one of our most successful tours 1:53:31.840 --> 1:53:36.600 in our entire career since the very very beginning. So 1:53:36.760 --> 1:53:39.920 the idea of like but we also made a record 1:53:39.960 --> 1:53:42.200 which we were planning on doing, but then COVID happened 1:53:42.240 --> 1:53:45.439 and we canceled a summer and we're like, well, if 1:53:45.479 --> 1:53:47.679 we're not going to tour, but we know that we're available, 1:53:47.720 --> 1:53:50.200 let's make a record. And we made a record that 1:53:50.240 --> 1:53:53.400 we're unbelievably proud of. But we also realized that we 1:53:53.600 --> 1:53:56.800 fucking hate making records together. Like it is just like 1:53:56.880 --> 1:54:00.040 a one giant argument. Like we as a band and 1:54:00.760 --> 1:54:04.559 get along unbelievable. Like if you come out you see 1:54:04.640 --> 1:54:06.800 us at a show, you would think that we all 1:54:07.040 --> 1:54:08.720 just became best friends, you know what I mean, Like 1:54:08.800 --> 1:54:11.600 we are this family. We're joking all the time. I 1:54:11.600 --> 1:54:15.280 don't think we've ever had a personal argument amongst us. Ever, 1:54:16.080 --> 1:54:19.479 it's always about creative direction. It's always about this will 1:54:19.880 --> 1:54:21.960 I see something this way and I see it this way? 1:54:22.000 --> 1:54:25.639 And you know, Paul always jokes that a Matchbox twenty 1:54:25.720 --> 1:54:27.960 song is the result of an argument between four people. 1:54:28.720 --> 1:54:31.599 And so I don't know, as we get older, that's 1:54:31.640 --> 1:54:33.160 something that we I mean, I'm not saying we wouldn't 1:54:33.160 --> 1:54:36.360 never record music, but we're not making an entire record again. 1:54:37.000 --> 1:54:38.720 Doesn't seem in the cards for us because we don't 1:54:38.840 --> 1:54:41.880 enjoy it. And frankly, we've worked hard enough in a 1:54:41.960 --> 1:54:43.720 teeth enough now where we don't have to do something 1:54:43.720 --> 1:54:48.160 if we don't enjoy it. But we enjoy playing, So 1:54:48.360 --> 1:54:51.160 I mean, maybe we'll maybe, you know, the landscape is different. 1:54:51.200 --> 1:54:53.240 Maybe for Matchbox that means we've put out a song 1:54:54.120 --> 1:54:56.720 and we just go out and tour maybe something special, 1:54:56.760 --> 1:55:00.640 maybe your residency at a casino, you know, maybe a 1:55:00.760 --> 1:55:03.120 specialty tour where it's just like one big show in 1:55:03.200 --> 1:55:06.880 big cities, you know, event shows. Like I don't know 1:55:06.920 --> 1:55:09.280 what that means yet, but right now I know that 1:55:10.000 --> 1:55:11.560 I just got to get this fucking record done by 1:55:11.560 --> 1:55:12.920 the end of this year. For my solo that's like, 1:55:13.360 --> 1:55:14.920 you know, like at the end of the day, you're 1:55:14.960 --> 1:55:17.320 still jobbing, you know, like you're still like, Okay, I've 1:55:17.360 --> 1:55:19.880 got this. I've given myself a deadline, and now I'm 1:55:19.920 --> 1:55:22.720 going to make that deadline happen because now Atlantic Records 1:55:22.800 --> 1:55:25.560 is going I want that record, and I'm lucky to 1:55:25.720 --> 1:55:27.400 you know, still have a label that wants that record. 1:55:27.480 --> 1:55:33.120 So okay, one final thing, it is almost impossible to 1:55:33.240 --> 1:55:39.080 make it. Luck definitely plays a factor. Hard work pays 1:55:39.120 --> 1:55:42.720 a factor, plays a factor with me. But in order 1:55:42.920 --> 1:55:45.520 to make it, you need to need it. You have 1:55:45.760 --> 1:55:49.200 to have this inner drive. To what degree is that 1:55:49.320 --> 1:55:50.720 a characteristic of yours? 1:55:53.280 --> 1:55:59.120 I think because like making it has changed over the years, 1:55:59.240 --> 1:56:01.160 you know, like we just talked about but I think 1:56:03.760 --> 1:56:07.760 I want to still feel to myself like I'm writing 1:56:08.160 --> 1:56:10.800 the best work that I can write right now. You know, 1:56:11.400 --> 1:56:13.640 like everything that I've done up until now, I can 1:56:13.720 --> 1:56:15.320 look back on it now and go like, oh, I 1:56:15.360 --> 1:56:16.760 would have changed this or would have done this. But 1:56:16.840 --> 1:56:19.040 I know in my heart that each one of those 1:56:19.280 --> 1:56:21.880 groups of songs I made the best record I could. 1:56:21.880 --> 1:56:23.720 I wrote the best songs that I could at that time. 1:56:24.600 --> 1:56:26.920 That's really my driving force now is I want to 1:56:28.000 --> 1:56:29.920 I want to write songs. I would love for people 1:56:29.960 --> 1:56:31.400 to connect with them, you know. I mean I love 1:56:31.440 --> 1:56:33.640 when I write a song and it's still something that 1:56:33.720 --> 1:56:35.760 somebody uses that they're their wedding or it's still something 1:56:35.800 --> 1:56:40.840 you know. But that's really the only success now because 1:56:40.880 --> 1:56:43.720 you never really know for the rest of our lives 1:56:43.840 --> 1:56:46.880 and my life, I can we can go out and 1:56:47.040 --> 1:56:49.480 play to shows. We can get people that are going 1:56:49.560 --> 1:56:53.800 to come see us play. Most of my favorite artists, 1:56:53.800 --> 1:56:56.440 you know, like like sometimes you're playing it, you know, 1:56:56.520 --> 1:56:59.440 you're playing like this casino and you're like are we casinos? 1:56:59.440 --> 1:57:02.040 And you look up like, oh, well, fuck, Elvis Costello 1:57:02.120 --> 1:57:04.960 was here last week. Fucking love Alice Costello and you 1:57:05.000 --> 1:57:06.720 know John legend was just here last you know, like, 1:57:07.240 --> 1:57:10.320 all right, you know this is I'm not the I 1:57:10.400 --> 1:57:14.120 think the the litmus test isn't isn't that anymore? Now? 1:57:14.160 --> 1:57:16.480 It's just like I just want to do good work. 1:57:16.520 --> 1:57:17.840 I just want to write, you know, I just want 1:57:17.880 --> 1:57:20.720 to write good songs, and I want to do well 1:57:20.840 --> 1:57:23.480 enough that I keep getting to do that. Like I 1:57:23.520 --> 1:57:25.280 guess one day if like I don't have a label, 1:57:27.440 --> 1:57:31.280 I don't know, Like, I'll tell you this, if for 1:57:31.480 --> 1:57:37.160 some reason, music stops being a viable career option for me, 1:57:38.360 --> 1:57:41.760 you will never see me again. I won't be on 1:57:41.920 --> 1:57:44.560 Dancing with the Stars, I won't be on you know, 1:57:44.800 --> 1:57:49.520 celebrity houseboat or fucking whatever. You know, like, I will 1:57:49.640 --> 1:57:52.920 not find another means for people to know who I am. 1:57:53.040 --> 1:57:56.840 If people stop knowing who I am because I make music, well, 1:57:56.880 --> 1:57:59.120 then lucky for them, they will never see me again. 1:57:59.640 --> 1:58:03.920 I will just be I'll just be quietly rich somewhere else. 1:58:04.720 --> 1:58:08.919 Okay, but that's that's now. Go back to the beginning. 1:58:09.240 --> 1:58:12.040 You're a high school drop out, You're. 1:58:11.920 --> 1:58:15.360 Playing in it was everything. If I don't make it, 1:58:15.920 --> 1:58:21.320 I don't survive like it was. And it's still it's 1:58:21.400 --> 1:58:23.440 easy for me on this side of the fence to 1:58:23.520 --> 1:58:27.440 tell somebody, you know, listen, if you're tenacious, dreams are 1:58:27.480 --> 1:58:29.880 gonna happen. You just have to stick with it. But 1:58:30.000 --> 1:58:34.200 that's not always true. And the fact is, without the 1:58:34.360 --> 1:58:37.400 luck factor, Like I believe that I write good songs, 1:58:37.920 --> 1:58:39.760 and I believe that I worked my ass off, and 1:58:39.840 --> 1:58:42.520 I believe that Matchbox twenty is, in my opinion, one 1:58:42.520 --> 1:58:45.440 of the greatest pop rock bands of all time, especially 1:58:45.480 --> 1:58:48.560 if you come see us live. But there's a lot 1:58:48.600 --> 1:58:50.480 of great fucking bands, and there's a lot of great songs, 1:58:50.480 --> 1:58:52.280 and there's a lot of people that with all of 1:58:52.360 --> 1:58:55.240 those things, they just didn't have that one lucky component, 1:58:55.360 --> 1:59:00.720 you know. And so you're still like, I could be 1:59:00.880 --> 1:59:03.880 fifty two years old having a conversation about my you know, 1:59:04.680 --> 1:59:07.240 my dad band that I'm in while I'm sleeping on 1:59:07.280 --> 1:59:09.560 my friend's couch, or you know, taking time for my 1:59:09.640 --> 1:59:12.240 dentistry practice or whatever, only I didn't even give. I 1:59:12.280 --> 1:59:14.480 didn't have a fallback, man, I like, you know, I 1:59:14.520 --> 1:59:16.680 didn't even have the dentistry practice to fall back on. 1:59:16.760 --> 1:59:19.760 I would have been working at my cousin's cleaners, you know, 1:59:19.840 --> 1:59:21.480 while I was still trying to get my band to 1:59:21.560 --> 1:59:23.640 work out. And it's never lost on me that it's 1:59:23.640 --> 1:59:26.480 a very fine line and that luck is that line 1:59:26.520 --> 1:59:31.880 between that happening. But the drive is just that you 1:59:32.040 --> 1:59:35.280 let everything else go, You let college go, you let 1:59:35.400 --> 1:59:38.000 getting into the ground floor of a career go. All 1:59:38.080 --> 1:59:40.600 of these other options are kind of going by, and 1:59:40.720 --> 1:59:43.080 you're like, no, I'm waiting on this. I'm waiting. It's 1:59:43.160 --> 1:59:46.840 kind of like you're just you're sitting at the at 1:59:46.880 --> 1:59:49.040 the bus stop and waiting for your friend to pick 1:59:49.080 --> 1:59:51.640 you up, and all of these buses come by and 1:59:51.680 --> 1:59:53.400 you're just like, no, I'm good, he'll come. He'll come, 1:59:54.120 --> 1:59:55.800 and you're just like, oh fuck, if he doesn't come home, 1:59:55.840 --> 1:59:58.520 I'm stranded, you know. And then for us, we just 1:59:58.600 --> 2:00:01.000 got lucky and he showed up and picked us up, 2:00:01.080 --> 2:00:03.160 and you know, we went on the ride. 2:00:04.280 --> 2:00:08.120 Needless to say, your dream came true. Rob, Thanks so 2:00:08.280 --> 2:00:10.520 much for taking the time to tell your story to 2:00:10.680 --> 2:00:11.360 my audience. 2:00:11.680 --> 2:00:14.640 It's a pleasure, Bob. I've been reading you for years 2:00:14.680 --> 2:00:16.480 and years and it is an absolute pleasure. 2:00:16.160 --> 2:00:20.360 To that's great talking to you. Obviously, you'll see him 2:00:20.400 --> 2:00:23.080 on the road in some incarnation, coming fast, and of 2:00:23.320 --> 2:00:27.240 course you'll hear Smooth in your grocery store, on the radio. 2:00:27.720 --> 2:00:31.440 Kahoon, and in your nightmares till next time. 2:00:32.040 --> 2:00:33.360 This is Bob left side.