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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob West's podcast. My guest

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Speaker 1: today is one and only Rob top Rob. You're wearing

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Speaker 1: a Bob Dylan T shirt. You're a big Dylan fan.

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Speaker 2: Uh yeah, of course. Man, if you're a songwriter and

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Speaker 2: you're not, then you've missed something along the way.

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Speaker 1: So what are your favorite Dylan songs?

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Speaker 2: You know, besides I think obviously you know, like Blowing

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Speaker 2: in the Wind or that kind of seminal first period,

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Speaker 2: you know, Like I was really really got into the

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Speaker 2: Times of Change record, you know, like the Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: thought that there was a really great return to form.

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Speaker 2: I thought it was just it was it was kind

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Speaker 2: of unique for me to like find something that you know,

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Speaker 2: like I don't when you stumble on something new, you

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Speaker 2: stumble on something and when you have something that you

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Speaker 2: grew up with, you kind of always just love the

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Speaker 2: things that you loved about them to begin with, you know.

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Speaker 2: But I find that there was certain artist Springsteen being

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Speaker 2: one of those, like when he went on that unbelievably

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Speaker 2: prolific tear you know, after nine to eleven from the

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Speaker 2: Rising on, like, you know, it's kind of great when

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Speaker 2: you when you see that happen and you realize that

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Speaker 2: you're just as excited about the new stuff as you

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Speaker 2: were about some of the older stuff. Now I've seen

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Speaker 2: him live and it's not my favorite thing in the world.

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Speaker 1: I got all said, I'm the same way, so uh,

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Speaker 1: I won't go anymore. But uh okay, believe it at that.

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Speaker 1: So do you keep up on new music?

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Speaker 2: Not in the way that I used to. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I it's easy to blame the medium, but I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, like I do a song of the day

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Speaker 2: every day, and so in a way that that tasked

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Speaker 2: me to every day search on Spotify and listen till

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Speaker 2: I find something either that you know or I mean,

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Speaker 2: I try and do it, like if I'm driving in

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Speaker 2: the car and something excites me and make a note

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Speaker 2: for that to be my song of the day. But

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Speaker 2: I don't. I mean, I can't remember the last time

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Speaker 2: that I got excited about a brand new album and

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Speaker 2: wore that record out like I used to do, you

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Speaker 2: know where I like, actually listen to something, seek out

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Speaker 2: the record and play it from beginning to end, over

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Speaker 2: and over and over. I think I've just become a

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Speaker 2: victim to streaming, and I've become a victim to song

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Speaker 2: by song by song. You know, I now like my

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Speaker 2: music like I like my people. It's just on a

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Speaker 2: case by case, song by song base.

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Speaker 1: So how do you get turned on to new stuff?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's not as important to me, I guess,

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Speaker 2: to get turned on the new stuff, I think. I

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Speaker 2: just you know, I'm a big fan of film, a

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Speaker 2: big fan of television. I think that placement now has

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Speaker 2: been better than it's ever been before. So I know

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Speaker 2: that I find a lot of music that I love

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Speaker 2: through film and through television. It just just in different,

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Speaker 2: you know, in sync situations like the amount of times

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Speaker 2: and my wife and I are sitting on the couch

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Speaker 2: watching something and then we hold up our with a

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Speaker 2: SoundHound and we both do it at the same time. Like,

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Speaker 2: but what is that that happened? That happens quite a bit,

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Speaker 2: I think, you know, as you I've read an article

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Speaker 2: somewhere that said that, you know, and I don't know

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Speaker 2: if it was like thirty or forty, but there's a

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Speaker 2: certain point in your getting older where you stop like

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Speaker 2: really taking in new things in that you know, like

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Speaker 2: you there's a certain point where culturally you like what

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Speaker 2: you liked up until this point, and that's the kind

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Speaker 2: of thing that always really excites you, and not that

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Speaker 2: a couple of them don't get in, but it I

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Speaker 2: don't retain it in that way, Like like I remember

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Speaker 2: there's a band called The Beaches, and I keep forgetting

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Speaker 2: like until I see them, and I'm like, oh, that's right,

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Speaker 2: I love the Beaches. I need to go check out

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Speaker 2: that record. And I never fucking check out that record.

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Speaker 2: I just keep telling them my isealf, Oh I got

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Speaker 2: to go check out that record. But I probably know

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Speaker 2: like four songs, but I'm like, oh, I'm a fan

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Speaker 2: of the Beaches, which means I'm a fan of those

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Speaker 2: four songs.

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Speaker 1: Okay, But you know the difference, it's very different when

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Speaker 1: you were coming up and you had your initial success.

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Speaker 1: Today there's a tsunami of prout, like it's almost you know,

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Speaker 1: every day there's one hundred thousand tracks on Spotify, And

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Speaker 1: I know the bit you're talking about age, but it's

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Speaker 1: like incomprehensible. But let's go back a step. So what

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Speaker 1: streaming television do you watch?

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Speaker 2: Oh, I mean it's purely script scripted drama, comedy. You know,

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Speaker 2: Like I'm just a huge fan of pretty much any

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Speaker 2: new thing that comes out my wife and I are,

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Speaker 2: you know, Like my favorite thing now is just when

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Speaker 2: she tells me that she doesn't want to watch something

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Speaker 2: because I'm running out of shit for myself to watch alone.

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Speaker 2: So like she doesn't like something, I'm like, oh, thank god,

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Speaker 2: I got something, you know, to watch when I'm working

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Speaker 2: out or something to watch when I'm alone. But I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm a try I'll watch anything except for reality TV,

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Speaker 2: Like I can't do anything. Like I'm just not a

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Speaker 2: big fan of reality TV, And oddly I'm not really

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Speaker 2: all my friends are big fans of biopicks. I'm more

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Speaker 2: of a fan of like like retail you know, I

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Speaker 2: really appreciate those a lot more. But I'm not as

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Speaker 2: big a fan of documentaries as I used to be.

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Speaker 2: Not really sure why. I just find that when I

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Speaker 2: see them, I'm incredibly turned on by them, and I

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Speaker 2: really love them, But I just don't get myself motivated

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Speaker 2: to like sit down and go I've got two hours.

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Speaker 2: I want to watch this, you know. But then like

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Speaker 2: my wife and I watched that I forget the name

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Speaker 2: of it, but that that documentary about the volcano, you know,

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Speaker 2: the studio that was just under the volcano. And like

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Speaker 2: that brought back such a flood of memories because you know,

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Speaker 2: we were we came out of this era after that era,

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Speaker 2: you know, I mean they weren't throwing that much money,

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Speaker 2: but they were still throwing money at us. So like

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Speaker 2: we could still make a record and that could mean

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Speaker 2: renting out the entire top floor of the Hit Factory

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Speaker 2: and some of the bottom floor and have like a

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Speaker 2: factory going just for your album, making that record and

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Speaker 2: you know, travel away somewhere to get away for an

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Speaker 2: experience to make a record, like and be able to

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Speaker 2: do that and not realizing that we might be one

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Speaker 2: of the last kind of musical generations that gets to

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Speaker 2: experience making music in that way. So when I saw that,

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Speaker 2: I was like, ah, maybe I don't like Maybe I

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Speaker 2: don't like seeing myself in these documentaries. You know, maybe

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Speaker 2: I maybe it's just too much longing. Sometimes I'm not

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Speaker 2: a competitive person, but I think creatively i'm competitive. So

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Speaker 2: I think sometimes I see somebody and they're just so

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Speaker 2: fucking talented that it just makes me feel immediately less. So,

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Speaker 2: you know, and so I think that sometimes I have

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Speaker 2: a hard time. I just kind of want to be

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Speaker 2: in my own lane doing my thing and be inspired

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Speaker 2: by somebody else's art.

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Speaker 1: Okay, there are other people you might feel inadequate relative to.

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Speaker 1: But how much of it is what you mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: that the business has changed and you don't get all

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Speaker 1: that money thrown it at you. And is it lamenting

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Speaker 1: those days or is it just when you see somebody

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Speaker 1: say they're fucking great?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I mean, you know, I was really fortunate

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Speaker 2: in the career, especially at the very beginning, that really

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Speaker 2: bought me the ticket to be on the ride for

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Speaker 2: as long as I've been on it. But it's never

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Speaker 2: I mean, coming up, we were we were very very

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Speaker 2: careful about decisions that we made in things that we

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Speaker 2: wanted to do, and we've left a lot of money

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Speaker 2: on the table. It's never really been the deciding motivating factor.

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Speaker 2: I just when I hear a great like when I

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Speaker 2: hear a great song, I get I go through this

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Speaker 2: whole problem and my wife can see it happening in

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Speaker 2: my eyes and she's just like, ah, fuck, not again.

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Speaker 2: Like I'll go through a whole process and luckily it

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Speaker 2: usually ends with me creating something, but it starts with

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Speaker 2: this feeling of like how does he do that? Like

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Speaker 2: I'm still amazed at how I can listen to a

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Speaker 2: new song and when I break it down, eventually I

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Speaker 2: see it. I see it. I see there's a verse,

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Speaker 2: and I see there's a chorus, and I know the chords,

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Speaker 2: and I see the makeup of it. And it's not magic.

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Speaker 2: But I love the fact that when I first hear it,

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Speaker 2: it sounds like voodoo. It sounds like something that I

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Speaker 2: don't know, and it's realize it's because I understand the

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Speaker 2: mechanics of something very very well, but still didn't see

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Speaker 2: how they got there. It's like if I were a

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Speaker 2: magician going to see a really great magician and still

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Speaker 2: getting fooled by the trick. And that's what it feels

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Speaker 2: like sometimes when I hear something and I just go, oh,

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Speaker 2: I've never been a good magician. I'm still fucking pulling

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Speaker 2: rabbits out of a hat over here, you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: still doing my verse in my chorus, and they're doing

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Speaker 2: something amazing over here. You know.

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Speaker 1: Can you give us any concrete examples of songs?

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's probably not. I mean, I'm the worst.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I feel like Nick Hornby and in

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Speaker 2: a high fidelity where like I'm tasked to put down

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Speaker 2: the top five list, and it never, like nothing ever

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Speaker 2: comes to mind as soon as you know, as soon

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Speaker 2: as I.

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Speaker 1: Hate that too, but it's just you know, you hear

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Speaker 1: certain songs sometimes that as a memory. Okay, So if

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Speaker 1: you're not watching biopics or you're watching series, or you're

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Speaker 1: watching movies.

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Speaker 2: I'm watching both. I don't know. I think we've all

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Speaker 2: we all got to a certain place where it feels

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Speaker 2: like a momentous task to sit down and watch an

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Speaker 2: hour and a half or two hour film, but we'll

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Speaker 2: stream four hours of five hours of something without thinking

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Speaker 2: twice about it. Like I I've actually caught myself now

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Speaker 2: on the other side of it, like watching a movie

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Speaker 2: and going, you know, that movie was pretty good, but

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Speaker 2: it would have been better if it had been a series,

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Speaker 2: Like they really could have got in there, they really

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Speaker 2: could have dug into it. So like I'm and I'm

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Speaker 2: still I'm so it's there's so much that I've got

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Speaker 2: a sticky note that my wife and I refer to

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Speaker 2: of like Okay, let's see where we're at, Like what

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Speaker 2: you know, what are we watching right now? Like I

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Speaker 2: think right now it's all about dark matter on HBO,

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Speaker 2: which is on Max I guess, which is fucking phenomenal.

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Speaker 2: And uh, but then we just went through and just

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Speaker 2: went back were watching all of the Star Wars movies again,

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Speaker 2: like or at least the main nine, right, And because

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Speaker 2: my wife was so down on the prequels for so long,

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Speaker 2: and I keep trying to explain to her that maybe

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Speaker 2: there's shit, there's an argument to be had about the

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Speaker 2: actual movies themselves, and are they overseegied and underacted or

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Speaker 2: overacted maybe, but the story is so similar to everything

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Speaker 2: else that comes after it that going back now watching

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Speaker 2: those prequels, like, she got emotional at the end of it,

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Speaker 2: because these are characters that are part of our life,

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Speaker 2: you know, and so that's been a fun thing for

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Speaker 2: us to do.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what's the best Star Wars movie?

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Speaker 2: Let me think, I mean, for me, it's got to

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Speaker 2: be a new Hope. But I mean, I think that's

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Speaker 2: just because it was the thing that everything hinged on,

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Speaker 2: you know, like it comes with so much emotional baggage

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Speaker 2: with it that and it just means so much. I mean,

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Speaker 2: all the way to my fucking Star Wars bed sheets

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Speaker 2: that I had, you know, probably way past the ages

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Speaker 2: that I should have had Star Wars bedsheets.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Star Wars came out in seventy seven, you were

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Speaker 1: a little kid. Did you see it when it came out.

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Speaker 2: I don't think so. My wife and I were trying it.

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Speaker 2: We don't remember when we first saw Star Wars, and

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Speaker 2: we were having that exact conversation. I remember my sister

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Speaker 2: and I were growing up in South Carolina. My sister

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Speaker 2: has we have different fathers, and I remember her father

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Speaker 2: picking her up, she's five years older, and her father

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Speaker 2: picking her up to go see Star Wars in the

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Speaker 2: theater and being like like crying. My mother had to

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Speaker 2: console me because I couldn't go. And I remember that succinctly,

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Speaker 2: But I don't remember when I first saw I remember

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Speaker 2: going to see Empire Strikes Back, and I remember going

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Speaker 2: to see Jedi, and I think even more, I remember

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Speaker 2: leaving the theater after those movies and you're walking out

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Speaker 2: and the credits are playing, and they're playing that iconic score,

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Speaker 2: that John Williams score, and you're a kid, and you

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Speaker 2: walk down the aisle of the theater to leave feeling

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Speaker 2: like a fucking Jedi, you know, like there was just

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Speaker 2: it was it was it stayed with you in such

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Speaker 2: a way. And uh, I've honestly, in everything that I do,

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Speaker 2: have tried to find a way to maintain that, you know,

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Speaker 2: Like how do I try and stay time? Like how

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Speaker 2: do I take away the cynicism that comes with age

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Speaker 2: and knowing things and just kind of give yourself over

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Speaker 2: to what it's supposed to be. And I mean I

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Speaker 2: fail at it miserably, but God, that was the best

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Speaker 2: feeling ever.

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Speaker 1: So what else is on the list.

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Speaker 2: Of all time? Like, I mean, it jumps around my

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Speaker 2: One of my favorite movies of all time is iHeart

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Speaker 2: Huckabees David Russell film, But also so is Curproco. I mean,

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Speaker 2: like my wife every time she comes in the house,

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Speaker 2: if Circac goes on, it's fucking on, and it stays on.

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Speaker 2: It drives her insane and then she just gets some

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Speaker 2: out of my like shitty Patino And personally you get

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Speaker 2: too in the back, You get to in the back,

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Speaker 2: like I mean, it's it's just it was, It's just

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Speaker 2: I don't know if there's anything cooler in the world

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Speaker 2: than al Pacino during Cercroco period. You know, it's a

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Speaker 2: maybe dog day afternoon, okay.

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Speaker 1: But on the list that you have what you're gonna

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Speaker 1: watch on television? How do you establish that list?

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Speaker 2: Hold on, you know what I'm gonna show, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: figure out right now, like right now, so I've even

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Speaker 2: got it. So I've even got it down. And the

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Speaker 2: ones that that are gone away, but but they're gonna

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Speaker 2: come back, things like The Morning Show and the Umbrella Academy, Uh, Fargo,

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Speaker 2: if they're gonna if that's gonna come back, Deadlock which

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Speaker 2: is really great. Australian showed Showgun, which I think is

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Speaker 2: kind of done. It's not coming back. Fallout was really great.

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Speaker 2: But I mean then we'll watch like Abbod Elementary and

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Wrexham. I just started. We just started with

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Speaker 2: The Big Cigar, which I think is pretty great. So,

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Speaker 2: I mean it's pretty all over the place. I don't

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Speaker 2: think we adhere to like, you know, any one kind

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Speaker 2: of thing.

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Speaker 1: And so what will your wife not watch that you

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Speaker 1: watch yourself?

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, like we just started The Sympathizer with with

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Speaker 2: Robert Downey Jr. And she watched one episode and was like, okay,

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Speaker 2: this is yours. I don't know why she loves Robert

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Speaker 2: Downey Junior more than me, but that was it.

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Speaker 1: So is this something where you watch something every night

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Speaker 1: or once a week or how much?

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Speaker 2: No, pretty much every night. I mean every night that

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Speaker 2: we're home. You know, we're we have we we have

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Speaker 2: the blessing and the curse. Like if I'm gone, I'm gone.

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Speaker 2: But when I'm home, I'm I'm very present. And when

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Speaker 2: we have long stretches of time where we're you know,

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Speaker 2: so we have a routine, and that routine always involves

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Speaker 2: let's either make some dinner or have some dinner. We're

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Speaker 2: gonna sit down and we're gonna watch something, you know,

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Speaker 2: something that we're really into. And then on the weekends,

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Speaker 2: this movie time is using when we set aside time

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Speaker 2: to actually watch films.

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Speaker 1: But you always do it at home. You don't go

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Speaker 1: out to the theater.

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Speaker 2: Not as much. We you know, here, we live in Bedford,

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Speaker 2: and right around the corner in Bedford Village there's this

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Speaker 2: beautiful place called the Bedford it's a Bedford Cinema, but

303
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Speaker 2: it's also the Clive Davis Center for Performing Arts.

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Speaker 1: This is bed for New York in the Bedford.

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Speaker 2: New York right right, And they have this beautiful place,

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Speaker 2: you know, and you can eat food there and it's great.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's wine and food and they have directors

308
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Speaker 2: come and they have like events centered around the films.

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Speaker 2: But they'll also have classic movies Tuesdays and Thursdays, like

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Speaker 2: they just had the Big Chill last week. I think

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Speaker 2: they have escaped from New York coming up next week,

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Speaker 2: and so we're more likely to go see those movies.

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Speaker 2: But like, I mean, there's a line of like, you know,

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Speaker 2: when the new Batman movie comes out, I got to

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Speaker 2: see that in a theater. When you know, there's certain

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Speaker 2: movies that the director all the time and effort that

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Speaker 2: goes into making it the spectacle that it is, deserves

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Speaker 2: that kind of format. I just don't need it for

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Speaker 2: a lot of the small independent films that I'm watching,

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Speaker 2: they'll they'll be fine at home, you know. And also

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Speaker 2: I just I'm good and old man. I just it

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Speaker 2: takes a lot for me to get I joked that,

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Speaker 2: you know, I moved to Bedford from the city, and

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to move too far because I was like,

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Speaker 2: you know, I want to be able to go in

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Speaker 2: out of the city all the time because I'm you know,

327
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Speaker 2: that's me man. I'm a social butterfly, and like I

328
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Speaker 2: joke now that it's It's like if John Lennon and

329
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Speaker 2: Jesus were playing at the Beacon, I would still need

330
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Speaker 2: to make sure, like, well, I mean, am I getting

331
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Speaker 2: driven in? Do I have to find parking? Like? Do I?

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Speaker 1: You know?

333
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Speaker 2: Do I am I good? You know? Do I have

334
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Speaker 2: good tickets? Like? I don't know?

335
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Speaker 1: But if they're playing at the Capitol, you'll go.

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Speaker 2: Oh the Capitol for sure. I mean that place is awesome.

337
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Speaker 2: I was playing the Capitol and in the dressing room,

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Speaker 2: the artist dressing room, there's a picture, live picture of

339
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Speaker 2: Carlos back in like the early seventies, like sixties playing

340
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Speaker 2: and I sent him the picture and he remembered it immediately,

341
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Speaker 2: remember that tour. He remember that show, and he's like, oh,

342
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Speaker 2: the Capitol. He didn't even know it was. He didn't

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Speaker 2: know it was back open again.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of great shows there before it closed

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Speaker 1: and Peter Shapiro reopened it. But you grew up in

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Speaker 1: the South. What's it like living in the North.

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Speaker 2: Now, Well, I've been here longer than I've been anywhere,

348
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Speaker 2: because I've been here. I'm fifty two and I've been

349
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Speaker 2: here for twenty six years. In New York so I've like,

350
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Speaker 2: I don't really know remember, but I think that the

351
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:31,840
Speaker 2: difference is you're never not from the South, if that

352
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Speaker 2: makes sense. Like there are certain sensibilities that I grew

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Speaker 2: up with and I have because I had a Southern mother,

354
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Speaker 2: because I grew up in the South, and those things

355
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Speaker 2: don't change, and I find there's a yokeleness around me

356
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Speaker 2: in that, like like when I go to a party

357
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Speaker 2: or I go somewhere like you know, and I'm I

358
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Speaker 2: go to some you know, great premiere and you go

359
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,120
Speaker 2: to the after party and it's very swanky and it's

360
00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,400
Speaker 2: a lot of very fanous, but I'm actually like, I'm

361
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Speaker 2: really glad to meet you, and I'm really glad to

362
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,600
Speaker 2: be there, And that comes across, as you know, as

363
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,720
Speaker 2: kind of like yogel, for lack of a better word,

364
00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:13,320
Speaker 2: very and very uncool. But I think so you like,

365
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Speaker 2: I don't remember what it's like to be in the South,

366
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Speaker 2: and I'm sure it's much different twenty six years later

367
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Speaker 2: than it was then, some some better and some worse.

368
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Speaker 2: But uh, but I but I'll never forget what it's

369
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Speaker 2: like to be from the South. And as soon as

370
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Speaker 2: I go back home and I get a little buzz

371
00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,960
Speaker 2: on the accents keeps back out because when my wife

372
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,879
Speaker 2: first met me, it was thick. I mean it was like,

373
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:36,960
Speaker 2: you know, not big. I was like, you know, had

374
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,280
Speaker 2: it really deep and uh and she loved it because

375
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:41,720
Speaker 2: she was a girl from New York. She didn't you know,

376
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,240
Speaker 2: didn't really spend a lot of time with Southern guys.

377
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,520
Speaker 2: So I think it helped took her in. But eventually

378
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:52,000
Speaker 2: it went away also because I hated it kept I

379
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,399
Speaker 2: hated that it came through in my singing voice, like

380
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,840
Speaker 2: my first record, all deeply in the first record, a

381
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,520
Speaker 2: little bit in the second record, everything had the Southern

382
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,399
Speaker 2: twinge to it. You know, it was cold house harm

383
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,679
Speaker 2: mariink like. It was just it was this southernness that

384
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 2: was in there, and I like, I don't know how

385
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,159
Speaker 2: to be someone else. So it took, you know, years

386
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,000
Speaker 2: of traveling around the world and being in New York

387
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,760
Speaker 2: and living there for it to kind of work its

388
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,800
Speaker 2: way out. I guess into like whatever my accent is now,

389
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,720
Speaker 2: which is just kind of like a non specific Northeastern

390
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:28,280
Speaker 2: kind of a thing.

391
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,679
Speaker 1: So you didn't consciously try to get rid of it,

392
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:32,520
Speaker 1: It just evolved.

393
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't think I could have. If

394
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 2: you listen record by record, you can hear it fading away,

395
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:39,359
Speaker 2: you know, little by little.

396
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,040
Speaker 1: So how'd you meet your wife.

397
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:50,000
Speaker 2: At a strip club? No, she was. She was on vacation

398
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,359
Speaker 2: in Montreal with a friend. She had never heard of

399
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,320
Speaker 2: our band, but her we only had one song out.

400
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 2: So we had the joke between us that when we met,

401
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 2: I was more famous than she thought that I was,

402
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 2: but less famous than I thought that I was. And

403
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 2: because to her, she was this worldly New Yorker who

404
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,400
Speaker 2: had lived, she'd modeled all over the world. She'd seen

405
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,119
Speaker 2: things that I can only imagine. And to her, I

406
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,280
Speaker 2: was this guy who had a song on the radio.

407
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,399
Speaker 2: She was like, big fucking deal. And to me, I

408
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,640
Speaker 2: was this guy that had a song on the fucking radio.

409
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 2: It was a big fucking deal. And so she showed

410
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 2: up that I was immediately her friend somehow.

411
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 1: A little bit slower. Where were you? How did you

412
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:38,399
Speaker 1: end up really encountering her?

413
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 2: I met the Metropolis, this kind of like larger sized club,

414
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 2: smaller sized theater in Montreal. Her friend, what I want

415
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 2: to say, was kind of like being very flirty with

416
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 2: our guitar tech. And so the guitar tech brought her

417
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,760
Speaker 2: back after the show, and so whor my now wife

418
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,399
Speaker 2: was in tow they're just upset, like she wanted to

419
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,440
Speaker 2: fucking go because, in her words, girls like her don't

420
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 2: hang out after the shows. And we've always known that, Bob,

421
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,119
Speaker 2: you know, like we've always you always notice that, like

422
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,399
Speaker 2: there are a lot of hot girls at shows, but

423
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,680
Speaker 2: they're not hanging out backstage because when the show's over,

424
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,159
Speaker 2: they go do hot girl shit. They've got us to do.

425
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,520
Speaker 2: And so my wife didn't want to be there. She

426
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,199
Speaker 2: was there begrudgingly, and then I was also I was

427
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 2: about thirty or more pounds heavier than I am now.

428
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,680
Speaker 2: If you listen to her, I only had one eyebrow,

429
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 2: my teeth are a little fucked up. And she's like,

430
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:43,959
Speaker 2: I don't know why. She's like, I just saw you

431
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:48,879
Speaker 2: and thought I see something in there, And I walked

432
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,480
Speaker 2: over and just said hi to her and managed to

433
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 2: get her phone number and then left. We only talked

434
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 2: for like maybe ten or fifteen minutes, and then like

435
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,399
Speaker 2: four days later, I went to Europe for like two weeks,

436
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 2: and so I just spent that whole time talking to

437
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,679
Speaker 2: her on the phone, like she was going to college

438
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 2: at the time, so we would just go, like, you know,

439
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 2: whenever her late night and my after show, I'd go

440
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,119
Speaker 2: straight back to Hotell me. We just talk on the phone,

441
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 2: so that by the time I got back and she

442
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 2: came to a festival, I had her fly on to

443
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 2: a festival in Boston, which like the first thing that

444
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 2: we did when we came back. And she came to

445
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 2: that show, and we felt like we really knew each

446
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,680
Speaker 2: other because we had spent hours and hours talking about

447
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 2: our lives and everything, and so I was like, I

448
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 2: even told her, like on the first date that we

449
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 2: were going to get married. I was like, we watched

450
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 2: one of my other favorite movies, Basquiot, the Julian Schebel movie,

451
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 2: and there's a song, the version of the Nearness of

452
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 2: You by Keith Richards is in there, and I said, oh,

453
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 2: this is the song you're gonna walk down the aisle

454
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,919
Speaker 2: when we get married. And she didn't run, and so

455
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,120
Speaker 2: I knew that was a good sign. And so now

456
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 2: this year will be our twenty fifth wedding.

457
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 1: Average Okay, was it smooth off into the sunset or

458
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 1: were there bumps in the road.

459
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 2: I think overall pretty smooth, and that we're really good friends.

460
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 2: I don't. I mean, the thing about being married that

461
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 2: long is is just that everybody at you know, every

462
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,120
Speaker 2: few years you're evolving into whatever it is that you're

463
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,120
Speaker 2: going to become. And so I think every I would

464
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 2: give it, let's say every five years, you chick it

465
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 2: on yourself, and whatever group of experiences that you've had

466
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 2: happened to you or that you've been a part of,

467
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 2: they change you in some way and you start to become,

468
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 2: you know, eventually whoever you are. And to do that

469
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 2: with another human being isn't necessarily the most natural thing

470
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 2: in the world. It doesn't always work out that way.

471
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 2: These two people go on these different paths sometimes and

472
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 2: they verge, you know, tremendously, and they wind up just

473
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 2: not recognizing each other anymore. And I think her and

474
00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 2: I have stayed friends, and that's been the main thing.

475
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm from the South and she is Puerto

476
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 2: Rican and Spanish. So we've had fucking fights. I mean

477
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 2: we were we were in Detroit and got into a fight.

478
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 2: It was like right before Christmas. I remember, because it

479
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 2: was right She as like it was like ten minutes

480
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 2: before the show, and she's like, get I want you

481
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 2: to get your ship and get off the bus. Just

482
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,239
Speaker 2: get your ship and get off the bus. And I

483
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 2: took my suitcase or whatever, and I got off the

484
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 2: bus and I'm just like, you know, this will blow over.

485
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 2: And I played the show. And as I'm walking back,

486
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 2: I go to the backstage door and I could I

487
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 2: go to the woman working, I can you do me

488
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 2: a favorite? Can you look outside and just tell me

489
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 2: as they're a big black bus right by the door,

490
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 2: And she's called, no, no, that bus left. It left about

491
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 2: two hours ago, and so she she takes she takes

492
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 2: the bus, and I've still got two weeks on tour

493
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 2: to go down south, so I have to like jump

494
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 2: on the band bus for two weeks. But then by

495
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 2: the next day, her and my bus driver are here

496
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 2: at my house, like write to me sweet messages because

497
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 2: they're gonna go out and they're gonna go buy Christmas

498
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 2: trees and like you're all excited. And I was just like,

499
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 2: I think she just wanted to go home. I don't

500
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 2: even know if she was mad at me. And I

501
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 2: find that one of the things about being married as

502
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 2: long as we are, as we can be in the

503
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 2: middle of a crazy fight and then something could come

504
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 2: on the TV and I could be ho pause out

505
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 2: and she'd be like, oh my god, we'll go and

506
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 2: we'll we're laughing, and then we'll go okay, okay, fight

507
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 2: back on, go go.

508
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: Have you ever been to couples counseling?

509
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 2: No, No, that's not for us.

510
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 1: And the two of you don't have children together, right,

511
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 1: we don't.

512
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 2: I have a son. My son is twenty six. So

513
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 2: that was another hurdle is that, you know, so we

514
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 2: meet each other, she's in love, she's got this whole

515
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 2: vision of this life that we're gonna have together, and

516
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 2: I have to explain to her that I do have

517
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 2: a son on the way that he's you know, he

518
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 2: hasn't been born yet, he's about to be born in July.

519
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 2: And that was I think. In fact, so I had

520
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 2: a song on my second record, Matchbok second record called

521
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 2: if You're Gone, and I wrote that song to night

522
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 2: my son was born, because that night my wife broke

523
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 2: up with me. My girl up she was my girlfriend

524
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 2: at the time, and broke up with me because it

525
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 2: just it seemed too much for her, this idea that

526
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 2: she was in love with this guy, but he was

527
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 2: about to embark on this other journey that she wasn't

528
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 2: a part of and something that was very important to her,

529
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 2: the idea of having kids and the idea of being married,

530
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 2: and so she didn't know. She thought maybe I already

531
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 2: had this and didn't need her for it, and she

532
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 2: broke up, and then I wrote, if you're gone. I

533
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 2: don't think that's what got her back, but that was

534
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 2: kind of the headspace that I was in at the time.

535
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: And then you know, I think her she's had myriad

536
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 2: health issues for the last twenty some odd years and

537
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 2: because of those things, it just wasn't in the in

538
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 2: the cards for us. And we're okay with it, Like

539
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 2: we were never people who were going to be defined

540
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 2: by being parents, and we are people who do it

541
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 2: like our time that we have, you know, so we're

542
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 2: never like all the pitter patter of little feet and

543
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 2: her and my son are super close, and you know,

544
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: my son is now my son is now the guitar

545
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 2: player in my solo band as of this this year,

546
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 2: so you know, it's it's just never felt like something

547
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 2: that we really missed. I think if I had to

548
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 2: think about it really hard, you know, I wasn't around

549
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 2: for all of my son being an infant, and I

550
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 2: kind of maybe that would have been nice to be

551
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 2: a part of watching that evolution and watch someone kind

552
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 2: of become a person. But it's not something that we

553
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 2: lament about too much.

554
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: So, had you had a relationship with the mother of

555
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 1: your son or was it a brief interlude.

556
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 2: Somewhere in the middle. We were very fond of each

557
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 2: other and we we spend a little bit of time together,

558
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 2: but it was but it was brief.

559
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: And so what what went through your head when you

560
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: found out she was pregnant?

561
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 2: Uh? I mean at the time, I was more worried.

562
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean I was more of a fuck

563
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 2: up then, you know, I was. I was still dabbling

564
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 2: in cocaine and brown liquor a lot, and so I

565
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 2: think I was just I really just had these thoughts

566
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 2: of me not being prepared, you know, like I wasn't

567
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: I didn't really have a sense of like, oh my

568
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 2: life is over, but that you know, there wasn't like

569
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 2: this this kind of dread. I mean, I was twenty seven,

570
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 2: so it wasn't like I was fifteen or sixteen. It

571
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 2: was just a sense of like, I don't know if

572
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 2: I'm as a person prepared for this task, and I

573
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 2: need to. I need to, you know, kind of I

574
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 2: need to be better quick.

575
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: Okay, So you meet your wife pretty early in your success.

576
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: Many people, you know, they want to become successful rock stars,

577
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: to live the rock and roll lifestyle.

578
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well I had, you know, a good year and

579
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 2: a half with just fucking ran it til the brakes

580
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 2: ran off of it. And that was you know, it

581
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 2: was fun. But you know, Paul, my best friend, Paul,

582
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 2: who was the drummer for Matchbox and now he's the

583
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: guitar player. I mean, I remember just before I met

584
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 2: my wife on a plane, just wasted and looking at

585
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,959
Speaker 2: each other and going, you know, there's more to it

586
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,479
Speaker 2: than this, right, Like it feels like we're kind of

587
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 2: like in this cycle of like play, let's play a show,

588
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 2: Let's get fucking wasted, wake up, let's do it all

589
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 2: over again. You know, girl show, wasted show, Girl show wasted,

590
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: girl show, and and so I kind of feel like

591
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 2: I got to experience a lot of what that's about.

592
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 2: But when I met my wife, she was young and

593
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 2: I was young, and so we spent the next couple

594
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 2: of years traveling around the world, you know, on this

595
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 2: fucking grand adventure and you know, we did the drugs

596
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: and we did the drinking, and we went to the

597
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: parties and you know, like we Michael Littman is my

598
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 2: original manager, Michael Littman from back in the day you

599
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: just managed George. Michael managed Bowie for a while, and

600
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,479
Speaker 2: you know, he was one of my big role models

601
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 2: when I first started in this business, and him and

602
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 2: his wife in particular, because they had you know, we

603
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: would go to London and they would take us to

604
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 2: Cambridges and you know, they take us to these spots

605
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 2: and be like, oh, this is you know where me

606
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 2: and George did this, or me and David did this,

607
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 2: and they would tell these great stories and it was

608
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: the two of them that had done that. And she

609
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 2: used to say, you know, oh, her name's Nancy Liman.

610
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 2: She would say, oh, yeah, I'm a rock chick from wayback.

611
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 2: And so now that's the joke from my wife. You know,

612
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 2: my wife's like, you know, she's a rock chick from

613
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 2: way back. Like we got to do that together and

614
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 2: experience that together, which I think is so much better

615
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 2: than the idea like me meeting someone and ten fifteen

616
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 2: years later and having this whole other part of my

617
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 2: life that they're not a part of. You know. It

618
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 2: almost like we've been together a really long time and

619
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 2: we got to be She got to be through that

620
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: part of it with me, So it's not some you know,

621
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 2: fairy tale that she hears stories about later on.

622
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: So she traveled with you at first? Does she traveled

623
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: with you at all? Now?

624
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 2: Whenever she wants? I mean she you know, she's not

625
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 2: lured by the bus anymore, you know, maybe the way

626
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 2: I used to be, But she does like I did.

627
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 2: I knew that she was the one when after our

628
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 2: first time we were torn together. We're sitting like about

629
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: a month or two later in our apartment and soho

630
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: and she just out of nowhere she said, oh I

631
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 2: missed the bus. Was just like, oh really, so nah,

632
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 2: It's like I fucking love you. And then you know, well, Willy.

633
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 2: After my time working with Willie was when I we

634
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 2: really up and we started we got our when it

635
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 2: was just her and Eye on a bus alone. We

636
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: stopped getting hotel rooms all together, and just every every

637
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 2: day of tour was on the bus. We would just

638
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 2: live off that bus, and he got life was so

639
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: much easier once we started to do that, and it

640
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 2: wasn't those three o'clock in the morning, back and forth

641
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 2: to the hotels, pack up your ship, go get a room,

642
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 2: come back down to twelve for the you know, it

643
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 2: was just a nightmare. And now it was just like

644
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 2: wherever we went, we were home and it was perfect.

645
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 2: Like I, you know, WILLI used to tell me that

646
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 2: he would take his bus to his house, but he

647
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 2: would still stay on his bus, like he would just

648
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 2: do his laundry in the house, but he would just

649
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 2: still stay on the bus and like, you know, hook

650
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 2: up the power and the phone lines and shipped to

651
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 2: the bus. And I was just like, oh, you're my

652
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 2: fucking hero again.

653
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: Wow. So what did the rest of the band say

654
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: when all of a sudden there's this woman along with

655
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: you with them?

656
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 2: It was it was a good time, Like when when

657
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 2: I met her. It was the next leg of our

658
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 2: tour was about to happen, and it was the first

659
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: time that we had two buses, and so everybody, what

660
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 2: the hell just happened?

661
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: I have no idea where that came from. It's like

662
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: a your birthday or something. I don't know.

663
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 2: That is awesome. So, you know.

664
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: This is audio only, but all of a sudden, we

665
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 1: saw balloons on the screen, just like to see my message.

666
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 2: I don't know, I feel like that guy in that

667
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 2: I am not a cat, sir. So we had two

668
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: buses for the first time, and so we're we all,

669
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 2: you know, Paul at the time, I just started dating

670
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 2: me and Zappa and they weren't married yet, but they

671
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 2: had just started dating. I think Brian had just met,

672
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 2: like we had all met people, and so we everybody

673
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 2: loved the idea that we could break off, had a

674
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 2: little more room, and everybody could bring somebody out if

675
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: they wanted to. So it's actually the perfect time for it.

676
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: Okay. Anybody who's had the level of success you've had

677
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: knows you're out there, you're playing to thousands of people.

678
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: You know, then you go back in the dressing room

679
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: with the same people you've known for ten or fifteen years.

680
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: How do you calm down from a show?

681
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's I think it still involves drinking.

682
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 2: Probably it used to be more, I think, but then again,

683
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 2: I mean, you know a lot of those highs were

684
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 2: much higher at the very very beginning. They were new.

685
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 2: Everything was a new experience, you know, for the first

686
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 2: few years. Every sold out club, no matter how small,

687
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 2: it was felt like a victory. And then you moved

688
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 2: the theaters and then, you know, if you're fortunate enough

689
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 2: like that, that one record had like three or four

690
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 2: different lives over like a three year period that ended.

691
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 2: It started with us in tiny clubs playing to nobody,

692
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,720
Speaker 2: and ended in sold out arenas all over the world,

693
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 2: and so everything about that was special and new and exciting,

694
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 2: and we were you know, and I think, just like

695
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 2: anything else, I think, you know, when you're a race

696
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 2: car driver, that's speed. It is exhilarating, and then over

697
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 2: the years, everything else inside of the car slows down

698
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 2: a little bit and you see it a little bit differently,

699
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 2: and you're you know, like, so now when I'm on stage,

700
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 2: it's not the show coming at me in a million

701
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 2: miles an hour. I'm inside of it, controlling the apparatus

702
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 2: to some degree. I'm thinking about where I'm going to be.

703
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,919
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about how I'm singing. I'm thinking about physicality

704
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 2: and where I'm placing myself, thinking about what the rest

705
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 2: of the band is doing. I'm thinking about how this

706
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:33,919
Speaker 2: is coming across. And so I think that now it's

707
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 2: more just like, hey, everybody. Let's if we have a

708
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 2: really great show, we all get together, we're all excited,

709
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 2: let's toast it. Let's you know. But there's a lot

710
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 2: of times where we can have an amazing show sold out,

711
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 2: you know, at some amphitheater, twenty two thousand people, and

712
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 2: I am on my bus in the shower before the

713
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 2: place is empty, you know, because I'm also there. When

714
00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 2: you were younger, there was no tomorrow, and now only

715
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 2: aware that that tomorrow we have to do this again.

716
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 2: I want my voice to sound as good like if

717
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 2: I had a great show. My first thought is, oh,

718
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 2: wouldn't it be great if I had another one tomorrow? Like

719
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 2: I want my voice to sound as good as it did.

720
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,280
Speaker 2: I want my body to have that kind of energy.

721
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 2: I'm way more aware now than I was then of

722
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 2: like what it takes for someone to come to see

723
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 2: a show, Like when you see all these people and

724
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 2: that every one of them represents somebody that chose to

725
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 2: be there. They paid money for a ticket, they had

726
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 2: to get parking, they had to get babysitters, you know,

727
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 2: especially as we get older, well now as we got older,

728
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 2: a lot of them now have kids that can be

729
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 2: their babysitters or they're bringing their grandkids. But you know,

730
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 2: I think it's just a different mindset that you're in.

731
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 2: It's still exciting, but you you're I think you're you're

732
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 2: just a little more responsible about the whole situation than

733
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 2: you used to be.

734
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: Okay, let's say, you know, you go from the stage

735
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 1: to the shower. You still can't fall asleep right away.

736
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 2: No, no, no, it's still we're still up late, you know.

737
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,359
Speaker 2: But that's luckily my wife is one of those two.

738
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, there's been a lot of like

739
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 2: times where I'm in there, I'm on the shower because

740
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 2: I'm I'm now like the bus is moving, I'm on

741
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: the bus showering while we're driving down the road. I've

742
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 2: got to kind of got good bus legs, and so

743
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 2: I come out. And then we're always like, there's a couple,

744
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 2: you know, let's have some let's have a couple of

745
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 2: drinks on the on the bus, you know, you know,

746
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 2: get maybe a little somebody to eat while and then

747
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 2: you know, we're all usually streaming something, so we go

748
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 2: back to whatever we were watching. You know, whether it's

749
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 2: that's when we might be a little more pull out,

750
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 2: like the old Ken Burns jazz documentaries and shit like that.

751
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 2: We still, like somehow exist on a lot of DVDs

752
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 2: on the bus because you because sometimes you don't have signal,

753
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:43,760
Speaker 2: so you still have to, you know, like be tethered

754
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 2: in some way to DVDs. Uh. So you know, I

755
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,760
Speaker 2: think you know you don't go to sleep, But luckily

756
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 2: it used to no matter because your whole life worked

757
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 2: in a cycle. Like you you can go to bed

758
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 2: till five in the morning, but you woke up at

759
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 2: two in the afternoon. My body, now, in my fifties,

760
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 2: I can't sleep past nine if I try, you know,

761
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 2: and usually I'm up at seven thirty. So even if

762
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,439
Speaker 2: I go to that are like three, my body's gonna

763
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 2: get up at seven thirty. My dogs are gonna wake

764
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 2: me up at seven thirty. I'm not gonna go back

765
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 2: to sleep. So you know, again, that's where the responsibility

766
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 2: has to kick in.

767
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:21,439
Speaker 1: Are you wearing an orror ring? I am, so tell

768
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: me about that.

769
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: I don't know. Do you have one? Now?

770
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: I don't have one. I know a lot of people

771
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: who have them. I've read varying reports on you know,

772
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 1: their usability, their accuracy. What's your experience been. I.

773
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 2: I think the only reason that I wear it is

774
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 2: to check how my sleep was every day. It's like

775
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 2: it's literally I I didn't get an Apple Watch. I

776
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 2: had an Apple Watch and it was so passive aggressive,

777
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 2: that little fucker, and like it kept telling me to

778
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 2: stand up and go for a walk, and hey, don't

779
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 2: forget to meditate. And now even now through my phone,

780
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 2: my ring, like my phone will beep and just be like,

781
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 2: hey man, it's getting time for bed. Don't you think

782
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 2: hm out when I start winding it down, and I'm

783
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 2: just like, fuck you. You don't know my life ring.

784
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't know how long I'm going to

785
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 2: have it. I have My manager now is Nick Litman.

786
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 2: He's co managers with his son with his father, Michael,

787
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 2: and he swears by this thing. So in Australia they

788
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 2: I fucking bought into it and now I've got it,

789
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 2: so I'm going to live with it for a while.

790
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 2: And see. I don't see any giant insights into my

791
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 2: life that this ring is giving me. But I am

792
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 2: fascinated every morning with how I slept.

793
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: You know, what are all the details it tells you

794
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:35,439
Speaker 1: about how you sleep?

795
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 2: I let you know, like where you're breathing rate was

796
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 2: while you were sleeping, but it lets you know, like

797
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 2: you're how much time you were in RAM sleep versus

798
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 2: deep sleep, how much time you spend in bed versus

799
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 2: actually sleeping, you know, And like it turns out like

800
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 2: even like if I have like a pretty high sleep

801
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 2: score and I slept pretty well, only like fourteen minutes

802
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 2: of that whole night was in deep sleep, which is

803
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 2: kind of crazy, like maybe an hour and something is

804
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 2: in r EM sleep, you know, and that's out of

805
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 2: eight hours. So I'm not But again, Bob, one of

806
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 2: the things is like I could do something and be like, oh,

807
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 2: I had like a sleep score in the forties, which

808
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 2: is kind of abysmal, and then I do something I

809
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 2: changed something up, and I'm like, oh, you know, I didn't.

810
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 2: I had like a couple of less glasses of wine

811
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 2: and I didn't eat late, and I had like an

812
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 2: eighty six sleep score. And you would think that that's

813
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 2: the purpose of the ring, and I would go, oh,

814
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 2: that's what I need to do now that. No, I

815
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 2: don't change my life in any way whatsoever. I still

816
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 2: do whatever the fuck I do, and then I just

817
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: wake up the next day and go like, oh, how

818
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 2: to go? I'm not using it the way I'm supposed to.

819
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: If you had a high score and you thought back

820
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,240
Speaker 1: and you said, well, I didn't drink or I drank less,

821
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 1: and I did this, and I did that, if you

822
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: repeat that behavior and you get the same results.

823
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean obviously, like any it doesn't take a

824
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 2: psychotherapist or a medical doctor to letting you know that

825
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,240
Speaker 2: if you have two glasses of wine instead of six,

826
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 2: you're probably gonna sleep a lot better. And I have

827
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 2: like restless legs syndrome I have, but I also have

828
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 2: a drinking problem. So what are you gonna do?

829
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 1: Well, well, we'll define a drinking problem.

830
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 2: I drink more than is healthy for my life.

831
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 1: Do you drink every day?

832
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, most days? Yeah, I mean I don't get

833
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 2: drunk every day.

834
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: But what's the earliest you'll have a drink.

835
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 2: It depends if I'm on the road and it's a

836
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 2: day off. I mean you might be out at lunch

837
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 2: having some drinks. But you know that's a that's a

838
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 2: different special situation. At home, we're more of like a

839
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 2: six thirty seven o'clock have some wine. I mean, like

840
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 2: I come from a world where it was shot shot, shot, shot, shot,

841
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 2: blind line, line shot shot, smoke, smoke, line, line, pill, pill,

842
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 2: and so so it feels pretty moderate in a relative way,

843
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 2: you know, compared to like the gears that I but

844
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 2: I don't have those gears anymore, you know, Like I

845
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 2: traded that model in for a slower model. Like I

846
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 2: don't have a sports car anymore. I'm more of a

847
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 2: nice four door sedan. Kind of a body happening.

848
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 1: And do you have an addictive personality? Do you need it?

849
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,240
Speaker 1: Or you're someone say, well, you know I can stop

850
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: after a couple of drinks.

851
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: I No, I don't think so at all. I think

852
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 2: that's the thing is, I could not drink at all.

853
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 2: But I don't have a limitter. But I'm that way

854
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 2: with a lot of things, you know, good and bad,

855
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 2: Like I get. I like my workouts. I will work

856
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 2: out six days a week, seven days a week for

857
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 2: an hour and a half two hours a day, you know,

858
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 2: and really, and I've got it in my computer, I know,

859
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 2: like what workouts I'm doing this and this day and

860
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: this day I'm charting my progress. I'm like because I

861
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 2: started to do it, and I was like, oh I

862
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 2: want to. I want to do it. You know, I

863
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 2: started to learn something, I'm like, Okay, I want to

864
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 2: fucking learn it. I want to, you know. And so

865
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 2: anything that I like, I don't want to get. If

866
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,399
Speaker 2: I buy a book and I start to like it

867
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 2: and there's you know, sequels, I would just go buy

868
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 2: all of them at one time now because I am

869
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 2: now all into this. You know, do you.

870
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 1: Work out six days a week? Yeah, by yourself with

871
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 1: a trainer, now, by myself. So how do you get

872
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: yourself motivated?

873
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 2: Ego? Like I one of the things, you know, real

874
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 2: talk Bob. One of the things is like, you know,

875
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 2: at fifty two years old and I you know, I

876
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 2: don't want to I don't want to see the big

877
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 2: bloated pictures of me at the casino and my ed

878
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 2: hearty T shirts and all, you know, and you're and

879
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 2: you're like metal jewelry every you know what I mean,

880
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 2: like still trying to hang onto that rock dream with

881
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 2: your gut hanging out Like I mean, first off, I've

882
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 2: never been like rock and roll guy anyway, but yeah,

883
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 2: I know for a fact that nine the time if

884
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 2: somebody goes, oh yeah I went and saw Rob Thomas,

885
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 2: or I saw mashbox swinning the other night. Somebody's gonna go, oh,

886
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 2: how do they look? How do they do it? You know?

887
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 2: And and or at least if they if we look

888
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 2: like shit, people are gonna stay in their noticing like,

889
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,760
Speaker 2: oh man, they look fucking rough. God damn like I.

890
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 2: I I don't want you know what, I'll when we

891
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 2: stop recording, I'll call out. I don't want to. I

892
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 2: don't like talking about people, but I'll tell I'll give

893
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 2: you a great example of it.

894
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: Okay, Very early in your career, once you broke to

895
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: the external world, it looked like it was very fast

896
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 1: and you gained weight, and as a result of that

897
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 1: and your instant success perceived by the public, there was

898
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 1: a lot of blowback. How did you cope with that?

899
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 2: Unfortunately by eating and drinking, Like I used to do cocaine,

900
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:17,839
Speaker 2: but I would only do cocaine so that I could

901
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 2: stay awake and party more, which led to more drinking,

902
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 2: which eventually would lead to, you know, gorging on food.

903
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 2: So no matter how much I was doing, I was

904
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 2: still gaining a lot of weight. The first time that

905
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 2: we were ever mentioned in Rolling Stone at all, there

906
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 2: was just a picture of me I had this red hoodie.

907
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 2: It was from Glastonbury and I just looked bloated as

908
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 2: fun and it said it said two things that were

909
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 2: just fucking brilliant. It said one that it said Rob

910
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 2: Thomas apparently has grown as a performer. And then it

911
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,760
Speaker 2: said apparently the road that success leads to the deli trade.

912
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 2: So we got to charge out of that because at

913
00:45:58,920 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 2: least it was clever.

914
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we're talking decades later. It must have

915
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:04,399
Speaker 1: hurt back then.

916
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 2: No, I mean it really did. And obviously, I mean, Bob,

917
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 2: the thing that we're talking about now, you know, when

918
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 2: I think about the reason in the why I'm working,

919
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,280
Speaker 2: why I work out six days a week, the reason,

920
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 2: like I have an unhealthy and this is this is

921
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 2: you know real talk to me and my therapist, you know,

922
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 2: these are these are subjects, which is I have a

923
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 2: very unhealthy body image and I have an unhealthy relationship

924
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 2: with calories and food and the like because of because

925
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 2: of that, like I you know, because it went deeper

926
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,359
Speaker 2: than that. It was also me I used to hate,

927
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 2: like you know, there were always photo shoots and I

928
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 2: fucking hated photo shoots because I felt fat because photo

929
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 2: shoots always come with wardrobe fittings, which you hate even

930
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 2: more because at some point there's some stylist that you

931
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,959
Speaker 2: don't even know, going, hey, you need to hit the gym.

932
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 2: Huh is this? You know, You're just like ah, and

933
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 2: so just pile And then I'm the kind of guy

934
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 2: who will never let you know, so I'm always I'm

935
00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 2: laughing it off to your face and then the you know,

936
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 2: drinking it back away, and so you know, it stuck

937
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 2: with me pretty hard. My wife, I think, you know,

938
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 2: ever since I met her, it was just on a

939
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 2: much healthier path, you know, not just for aesthetics, but

940
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,359
Speaker 2: just you know, aesthetics are a lucky byproduct of that,

941
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 2: you know, being healthier.

942
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: So your reference drugs a number of times like that

943
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: was in the past. So what's the status of drugs today?

944
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 2: Uh? Alcohol, caffeine, weed? So none?

945
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 1: Was that a conscious decision, a hard decision, or just

946
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: so all of a sudden you woke up one day

947
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 1: and you weren't doing it.

948
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 2: That wasn't too hard. I mean I really miss sometimes

949
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 2: I miss psychedelics sometimes, you know, I miss and I

950
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,799
Speaker 2: missed like maybe ecstasy. You know, we used to have

951
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 2: a lot of fun. Uh, you know, takeing ecstasy, but

952
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 2: cocaine was easy to give up. I think it was

953
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 2: just one you just have to be have one time

954
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 2: where you look at the people that are in your life,

955
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 2: that are only in your life because you're doing cocaine,

956
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,879
Speaker 2: and how fucking how just how much you hate them,

957
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 2: and then you see yourself in them and you go,

958
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 2: oh my god, that's who I am, you know, like

959
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 2: I'm hanging out with this person that I've never met

960
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 2: before in my entire life, and we're talking about opening

961
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 2: a club together tomorrow, you know, those kind of nights.

962
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 2: And so that was pretty easy to be like, yeah,

963
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 2: I'm okay with Without that part of my life happened anymore.

964
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: Now I can see on the zoom you're wearing a

965
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: bracelet with letters on like a friendship bracelet.

966
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, one from a fan and one from my niece.

967
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 2: But it's not as cute as it sounds. My niece

968
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 2: is in her mid thirties.

969
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 1: Okay, do they say anything specific?

970
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 2: One has my dog Sammy's name on it, who passed away,

971
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 2: and then one just says Matt twenty because uh, because

972
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:03,959
Speaker 2: I'm a fan.

973
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 1: So you mentioned a therapist, So when did you start

974
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 1: and how much do you go now.

975
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 2: Uh, once every couple of weeks, maybe a year and

976
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 2: a half ago, two years ago I had I started.

977
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,919
Speaker 2: Five years ago, I had my first time ever going

978
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,439
Speaker 2: to a therapist, and I swear to God, like five

979
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 2: it's like a fifth session. And she just fell asleep

980
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 2: in the middle of the session, and when I called

981
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 2: her on it, she just said I was boring her,

982
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 2: And so I think in some way, I was like,

983
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:46,479
Speaker 2: I fucking knew this is what it was. I knew

984
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 2: this is what it's gonna be the you know what

985
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 2: I mean, And so that put me off it for

986
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 2: a little while. Now I have one who I like

987
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 2: a lot. Honestly, I think that she agrees with me

988
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,439
Speaker 2: a little too much, you might, and so I still

989
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 2: might be in a phase now where I need to

990
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,839
Speaker 2: someone who challenges me a little more. So that might

991
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:05,360
Speaker 2: be my next stage in that evolution.

992
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 1: What motivated you to go to begin with?

993
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 2: You know, I got there's a lot of unresolved. My

994
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 2: mother and I had a very complicated relationship. It's almost like,

995
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 2: if you go like reasons for therapy number one, this

996
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 2: is you know, so my mother and I had a

997
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 2: very complicated relationship, that was never resolved when she passed away,

998
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 2: and that was kind of always in there, and I

999
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 2: see these parts of her that I hated, that I

1000
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 2: see inside of myself, and I wanted to explore those

1001
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 2: a little bit. I wanted to kind of explore, h

1002
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 2: explore my reasons for why why I'm you know, why

1003
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 2: why the drinking and why sometimes I let it get

1004
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 2: out of control to a certain you know. And I

1005
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 2: just had questions that I wasn't and that I couldn't

1006
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 2: answer myself, even though I was the only one that

1007
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,399
Speaker 2: contained the answers. But I just did have a key

1008
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 2: to figure out how to find that answer.

1009
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: Okay, so you grew up in South Carolina. We're in

1010
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 1: South Carolina.

1011
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 2: So between a place called Lake City, South Carolina, which

1012
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 2: is like a very small tobacco town maybe an hour

1013
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 2: from Myrtle Beach and a little time in Columbia, but

1014
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 2: in Lake City. So Lake City, we we lived in

1015
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 2: my grandmother's house. So my grandmother was this character. So

1016
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 2: it was like a kind of like I guess you

1017
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 2: would call it a general store in a sense, right.

1018
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 2: It was the local gas station where all the tobacco

1019
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 2: farmers would come on their lunch break and they could

1020
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 2: get you know, they would get get a coke or

1021
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:44,359
Speaker 2: a hot dog or whatever. People would be on their

1022
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 2: way to the beach sometimes were stopping get gas. She

1023
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 2: brewedleg liquor from a room under the stairs and had

1024
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 2: sold weed out of her room in the back. So

1025
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 2: when I was like ten years old, I could, I could,

1026
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,399
Speaker 2: I was separating stems and seeds out of this weed,

1027
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 2: making like in like weighing out dining bags and nickel bags.

1028
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 2: Like at least once a year somebody got shot at

1029
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 2: this place. It was like it was like one of

1030
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 2: these kind of a shack of a store where like

1031
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:13,439
Speaker 2: there's a wood floor, but if there was a hole

1032
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 2: in it, it went straight to the ground kind of thing.

1033
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 2: You know. It was very much a very you know,

1034
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 2: very modest to say the least place. And so we

1035
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 2: that was my grandmother's uh play, And she was a

1036
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 2: character who had never she never drank. And then once

1037
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 2: a year, once every two years, she would go on

1038
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 2: like a two week vendor that would somehow like end

1039
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 2: up with her out in front of the store with

1040
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,399
Speaker 2: a gun. Like she was you know, she was either

1041
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 2: like the nicest, sweetest carrying person or just a fucking

1042
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 2: you know, powder cake. So it was interesting, it was

1043
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 2: you know, it was just it was a very interesting thing.

1044
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 2: And then my mom moved us out to Florida. So

1045
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 2: it was at a time where like she got a

1046
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 2: job as a computer programmer, but nobody even knew what

1047
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 2: that was. So they were just hiring people off the

1048
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 2: street and sending them to school to learn because they

1049
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 2: were still doing it with computer cards at the time.

1050
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 2: And if you remember that, time punches all. Yeah, so

1051
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 2: she was learning cobalt and all these and then as

1052
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 2: soon as she'd learned it, there'd be a whole new

1053
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 2: operating system and she'd go to where met And when

1054
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:19,799
Speaker 2: she was sixteen, she lied about her age or for

1055
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 2: a first job and said that she was nineteen. And

1056
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 2: I was born when she was twenty one. My sister

1057
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:31,359
Speaker 2: was born when she was sixteen, and she just kept

1058
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:33,720
Speaker 2: working her way up through these so by the time

1059
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 2: she had passed away, you know, she had moved us

1060
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 2: to a really nice, middle class neighborhood. Like we went

1061
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 2: from living in like the dingy, shitty apartments on that

1062
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:45,799
Speaker 2: side of town that nobody wants to go to to

1063
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,279
Speaker 2: like a really nice place in Wakaiva, Florida, which was

1064
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 2: like middle class, beautiful neighborhood. She was the head of

1065
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,399
Speaker 2: Q of Quality Assurance for City Bank and for their

1066
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 2: security team in banking. You know, she was very respected,

1067
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 2: and then I think she probably drank herself out of

1068
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 2: a job and then drank herself to death later on.

1069
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:17,279
Speaker 1: Let's go back your grandmother. What were her parents? How

1070
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 1: did she end up there?

1071
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:22,800
Speaker 2: I never knew her father, I knew her I didn't.

1072
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 2: I mean, it was just this magical place that just

1073
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,280
Speaker 2: appeared to me. You know. That was where my history

1074
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 2: of my family and everybody began. And it's hard to

1075
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,919
Speaker 2: get a straight answer about anything that happened before that.

1076
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 2: You know, my like my I know my aunt. My

1077
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:41,319
Speaker 2: mother had a sister. Her name is Marcella Summers, and

1078
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 2: we used to call her Monkey and she spent she

1079
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 2: spent most of my life in prison in South Carolina

1080
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 2: because she hired a serial killer named pee Wee Gaskins.

1081
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 2: And there's a book about him that's out and she

1082
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,840
Speaker 2: actually has a chapter in it. She hired pee Wee

1083
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:05,919
Speaker 2: Gascons to kill her boyfriend over a Dodge two eighty

1084
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:07,919
Speaker 2: Z that like he had given her as a gift

1085
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 2: and they broke up and he took it back. So

1086
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 2: she met with Peewe Gaston's had him killed and then

1087
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 2: shoved into the trunk of that car and then pushed

1088
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 2: the car into the river. But then she got arrested

1089
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 2: for it, and so she spent most of my life

1090
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 2: in prison. So that's the only other family member that

1091
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:22,720
Speaker 2: I knew.

1092
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 1: Okay, the husband of your grandmother, what was his story?

1093
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:31,919
Speaker 2: There was no husband. Since I was a little kid,

1094
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 2: she was. I mean, as far as I knew she

1095
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 2: was asexual, and then I found out later she wasn't.

1096
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 2: But but she no, I never there was never there

1097
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 2: was a husband. I think his name was Floyd, but

1098
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 2: I've never met him. I think, I don't think I've

1099
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 2: seen pictures of him. These are the stories that my

1100
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 2: mom used to tell me.

1101
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 1: Okay, So your grandmother started the shop herself.

1102
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 2: Her, I think her. I don't think it's her father.

1103
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 2: I think it's her stepfather started Willie. It's a great name, really,

1104
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 2: Grandpa Willy. He started the store and then it was

1105
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 2: called Kirby Grocery, and then she took it over. You know,

1106
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 2: years later. I just knew, like when I was born,

1107
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 2: like I pictures of me as a baby in that store,

1108
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 2: So I'm not sure how long she had had it

1109
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 2: before then.

1110
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: And what happened to the store.

1111
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 2: I found out later on that had burned out. My

1112
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 2: one of my cousins burned it down for insurance. Like

1113
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 2: here's how my family went. My cousin, one of my

1114
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,280
Speaker 2: cousins and his sister got their mother my aunt hooked

1115
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 2: on crack and then they all tried to burn down

1116
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 2: the store for like some insurance money. But I didn't

1117
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,279
Speaker 2: know any of this. I took my wife, I think

1118
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 2: we weren't even married yet, and we were going on

1119
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:52,759
Speaker 2: a trip through South Carolina and we reren in her

1120
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 2: car and I was going to go show her, you know,

1121
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 2: this visual history of my you know, my past, and

1122
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:00,880
Speaker 2: we got to the spot where the store was, it

1123
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 2: was just ashes, Like I had no idea. That was

1124
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 2: a devastating moment for me too, Like I just I

1125
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,840
Speaker 2: think you just always, like I, throughout my life, I

1126
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 2: would check up on it, Like I would leave home

1127
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 2: when I was like sixteen seventeen and hitchhike from Florida

1128
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 2: up to South Carolina and kind of check in on

1129
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 2: my grandmother and that you know, that little contingent in

1130
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 2: my family, and so I like, I just assumed, I

1131
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 2: guess like people do, that it was just there waiting

1132
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 2: for me always, and then one day I went there

1133
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 2: and it just wasn't there anymore. My only people that

1134
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 2: I in my family really that I still have or

1135
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 2: my sister, who I'm very close to. She's the only

1136
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 2: person in my family that I'm really close to. My father,

1137
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 2: who I have somewhat of a relationship but was certainly

1138
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 2: not close. And that's it. I mean, really, I think

1139
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 2: I've got a cousin that once every two years might

1140
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 2: stop by, know, say hi at a show or something.

1141
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's pretty much my sister and sometimes my dad.

1142
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:10,439
Speaker 1: So did her father ever show up when you grew up.

1143
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 2: My sister's father, Yeah, a couple of times. I actually

1144
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 2: know him. He comes to shows all the time. He

1145
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 2: lives in Chicago. He's a really nice guy. I see him,

1146
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 2: you know, quite often. I my mother, So my mother

1147
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 2: in law and my father in law are really really

1148
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 2: been my family over the last twenty six years. In

1149
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 2: my because I it was the first time I'd ever

1150
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 2: had a relationship. Like when I moved to New York,

1151
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 2: I remember like we would go on the road and

1152
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 2: my wife would call and say, oh, you know, we're

1153
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 2: going home in a couple of days. My mom went

1154
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 2: by the apartment. She cleaned it up, and she like

1155
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 2: restocked the groceries and she, you know, just stuff there.

1156
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 2: And I was legitimately thinking like, like what's her fucking angle,

1157
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 2: you know, like why would somebody do that? And she's like, well,

1158
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 2: she loves us, and she's doing it because you know,

1159
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 2: she cares about us. And I that was just foreign

1160
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 2: to me. And I, you know, when I grew up,

1161
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 2: my mother was young. She admitted, you know, she had

1162
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 2: like I said, she had my sister at sixteen, had

1163
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 2: me in twenty one. There's a whole part of her

1164
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 2: youth that she felt like she missed out on. Then

1165
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 2: when I was like twelve, she got cancer. They thought

1166
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 2: she was going to die. They give her six months

1167
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 2: to live, and she beat it, and then she got

1168
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:26,439
Speaker 2: it again, and then she beat it. And I think

1169
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 2: that all the time in between those moments, she was

1170
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 2: just out there making up for lost time. And so

1171
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 2: that required her to be really really selfish at a

1172
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 2: time when I needed her not to be. And so

1173
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 2: I just never had the experience of someone maternal having

1174
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:47,919
Speaker 2: that kind of care, like maternal care and so ever.

1175
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:49,680
Speaker 2: You know, ever since, like my mother in law has

1176
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:51,920
Speaker 2: become one of my my dearest friends in the world.

1177
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 2: We spend a lot of time together, just her and I.

1178
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 2: We go to shows together, we go out to dinner,

1179
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 2: we hang out all the time. And so I, you know,

1180
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 2: got to got to really estee what I was like.

1181
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 2: So it just my I never really mind my actually

1182
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 2: with except my sister. I never really found it in

1183
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 2: my actual family.

1184
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: So when you were growing up, was your father in

1185
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 1: the picture?

1186
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 2: Now I found out litter. I mean, I think my

1187
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 2: dad was scared of my mom in a lot of ways,

1188
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 2: you know, they she was volatile, and I guess I

1189
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 2: didn't know at the time, like I was, I didn't

1190
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 2: have my dad's number. I didn't know why. And it

1191
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 2: turned out because I had it, that my mom would

1192
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 2: get it. Then she might start calling at three o'clock

1193
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 2: in the morning, you know, and harassing him or whatever.

1194
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 2: But I didn't know any of these things. I just

1195
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 2: felt like my dad wasn't around because he just wasn't around.

1196
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 2: And then I think I got I got to a

1197
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 2: certain point where I learned how to live on my own.

1198
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 2: I mean, like literally on my own. Like I left

1199
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 2: home at like seventeen, I was living, you know, in

1200
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 2: friends cars and on friends park benches. And the next

1201
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 2: thing I knew that I was in a band. I

1202
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 2: was living on friends couches, and then we were playing shows,

1203
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 2: and then I never I learned how to not need someone,

1204
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 2: and so then by the time my dad kind of

1205
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 2: came back around, which honestly wasn't until I started to

1206
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 2: do well in music. By the time he came back around,

1207
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 2: I just didn't need that anymore. That wasn't what I

1208
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 2: was looking for in a relationship, you know. And I

1209
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 2: don't know, I'm sure I missed out on some things,

1210
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 2: but I learned to be pretty self sufficient as well.

1211
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 2: And I learned how to make a lot of lemonade

1212
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 2: out of limits when I needed to.

1213
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 1: Okay, you're close to your sister. Your father comes back

1214
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 1: in the picture. You see your sister's father. Are they

1215
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 1: a asking for money? B Do you support them?

1216
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 2: No, My sister has once begrudgingly asked me for money

1217
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 2: and then paid me back. My sister's father's never asked

1218
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 2: me for anything at all. And I said this is

1219
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 2: just a genuinely one of the best people that has

1220
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 2: ever existed in the world. And I think, you know

1221
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 2: her and I we're victims of a trauma together, you know,

1222
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 2: like we went through a lot and through that with

1223
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 2: our mother, you know, and she a lot, a lot

1224
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 2: of kind of rage and violence and uncertainty and being

1225
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 2: gone for days and days and us being alone and

1226
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 2: hunkering down together. That makes you really really close, and

1227
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 2: so the two of us, it drives her husband insane.

1228
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 2: So my sister ran away from home at seventeen years

1229
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 2: old married her twenty one year old boyfriend, which is

1230
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 2: a recipe for disaster, except for the fact that they've

1231
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:40,360
Speaker 2: now been married for over forty years. They're one of

1232
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 2: the closest couples I know. They have kids, their kids

1233
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 2: have kids, They're a great success story. And so it

1234
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 2: drives them insane because when the two of us get

1235
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:52,840
Speaker 2: together and we just start telling these stories about our

1236
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 2: childhood but with a very nonchalant kind of thing, and

1237
01:02:57,040 --> 01:02:58,920
Speaker 2: he's just like, the fuck, where the fuck did you look?

1238
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 2: What is this your life? You know? So we both

1239
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 2: realized that we kind of we kind of share that.

1240
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 1: So how old were you when you moved from South

1241
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 1: Carolina to Florida.

1242
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 2: Let's see. I think I was in I want to say,

1243
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:17,920
Speaker 2: six or seventh grade middle school.

1244
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 1: So you're living with your mother. Grandmother is quite a character.

1245
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:28,880
Speaker 1: Father's not around. Does this impact your identity in school? Yeah?

1246
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 2: I think so. I mean in a lot of ways.

1247
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 2: I you know, my mom at the time. So my mom,

1248
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 2: you know, single, So she's dating a lot of guys

1249
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 2: and then kind of become we become whatever she was

1250
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:44,440
Speaker 2: dating at the time. Does that make sense? So like

1251
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 2: when she's dating a biker, we're all bikers right now,

1252
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 2: and she's dating like a businessman, then we're all, you know,

1253
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 2: we need to come on, act like people. Come on.

1254
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:56,920
Speaker 2: I think, you know, having all of this weird turmoil

1255
01:03:56,920 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 2: at home with my mom, I was acting out a

1256
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 2: lot in school. I didn't it really hit me. I

1257
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 2: think when I was in like ninth grade and a

1258
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 2: guidance counselor pulled me aside and had me come into

1259
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 2: her office and said, so, you know, you can answer

1260
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 2: this however you want, but are your parents alcoholics? And

1261
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't. My mom drinks a lot,

1262
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 2: you know, and she just kind of pegged me as

1263
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 2: this very this is this is this type of personality,

1264
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,360
Speaker 2: the type personality comes from this kind of a situation.

1265
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 2: I was definitely every I went to a lot of schools.

1266
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:39,760
Speaker 2: We moved around a lot within Florida. But every school

1267
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 2: I went to, I was the kid who was squandering

1268
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:45,919
Speaker 2: his potential, you know, because I was the kid who

1269
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 2: tested through the roof whenever we do aptitude tests. But

1270
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 2: I never applied myself in anything whatsoever. I you know,

1271
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:56,680
Speaker 2: when I showed up at all, I would I was

1272
01:04:56,720 --> 01:05:01,160
Speaker 2: more disruptive than anything else. I would already like starting

1273
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:03,920
Speaker 2: to play music. I had someone I ran into that

1274
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 2: was in a class with me in ninth grade that

1275
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 2: I was explaining to my algebra teacher that I didn't

1276
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:11,920
Speaker 2: need algebra because I was going to be a musician

1277
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 2: and so I didn't really have to worry about that.

1278
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 2: And then she's like, well, who's going to count all

1279
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:19,120
Speaker 2: your money? And I was like, my accountant is going

1280
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:21,840
Speaker 2: to count all my money. It turns out I was

1281
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:22,480
Speaker 2: right about that.

1282
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 1: So you were that kid? Did you have friends? Were

1283
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 1: you popular? Were the loner or the guy who fought?

1284
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 1: What kind of kid were you like in school?

1285
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:35,600
Speaker 2: I was all of those things like I didn't have

1286
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 2: a clique, but I got along very easily, which I

1287
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 2: think is another trade of children of alcoholics. I got

1288
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 2: along very easily with every group. So like on a

1289
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:47,479
Speaker 2: Saturday night, I could go to pretty much any group

1290
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 2: of party and I would be able to come in.

1291
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:52,960
Speaker 2: I knew people pretty much everywhere there. But like you know,

1292
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 2: this group of friends on Saturday afternoons would all get

1293
01:05:56,120 --> 01:05:57,440
Speaker 2: together and meet up and go to the beach. I

1294
01:05:57,480 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 2: was never part of that group, but they would get

1295
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 2: together on Friday night and go to movie. I wasn't

1296
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,200
Speaker 2: part of that group. But if there was like a

1297
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:07,480
Speaker 2: general collection, I was always welcome in any of those studies.

1298
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 2: You know.

1299
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 1: And at that point you're in high school, was there

1300
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 1: enough money that if you needed something your mother could

1301
01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:16,400
Speaker 1: buy it for you. It was always like an issue

1302
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 1: having money to get shit.

1303
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 2: We had money, but it was mom. It wasn't she

1304
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 2: was big on spending money on herself. Honestly, like my

1305
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 2: drives my wife insane because she'll talk about like she

1306
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:27,760
Speaker 2: did this, and I was like, yeah, I never get

1307
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:28,920
Speaker 2: to do that. I never get to do this. I

1308
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:34,240
Speaker 2: never got to get this. I was I think it

1309
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:36,960
Speaker 2: manifested itself a lot too, and like I got into

1310
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:39,000
Speaker 2: a lot of trouble. I got arrested quite a bit.

1311
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:42,960
Speaker 2: I started to really get like my first I got

1312
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 2: arrested for the first time ever for arm to burglary.

1313
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 1: Okay, tell us this story.

1314
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:52,520
Speaker 2: It sounds worse than it is. Honestly it was. It's

1315
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:55,120
Speaker 2: the thing where we would break into people's homes that

1316
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 2: we knew and rearrange their furniture. You know, we never

1317
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 2: really stole anything, well I can't. Sometimes we would like

1318
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 2: steal a beer. You know, it was we And honest

1319
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:07,240
Speaker 2: when I say this, Bob, I want you to understand now.

1320
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 2: I realized that that if you're a homeowner and you

1321
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:13,960
Speaker 2: come home and that's how it's you feel violated, you

1322
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:16,240
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like, it's a horrible if I

1323
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 2: grew up.

1324
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 1: Too, is the same thing. One time we went away

1325
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 1: and somebody came in stole Magical Mystery Tour which had

1326
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 1: just come out, and my father's changed first, nothing else.

1327
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 1: They just wanted to break And I know exactly what

1328
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 1: you're talking about. But if it's armed, Rob, where's the gun?

1329
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 2: Well, the gun was in the home. And honestly, it

1330
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 2: was a very scary moment when I think about it,

1331
01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 2: because the guy that when the guys I was with

1332
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:41,960
Speaker 2: found this gun, was kind of fucking around with it.

1333
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 2: He's like, no, there's nothing in here, and he was

1334
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 2: pointed at me and I'm like, dude, just don't whatever,

1335
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:47,720
Speaker 2: I don't trust it, don't point it at me. And

1336
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 2: he went like this and he shot it and it

1337
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:53,680
Speaker 2: shot through the through the wall, and I was like,

1338
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 2: holy fuck, and he put the gun back. So because

1339
01:07:56,880 --> 01:07:59,720
Speaker 2: there now there this was a break in, but a

1340
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 2: gun was involved, which made it an armed burglar not

1341
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 2: an armed robbery. There's a very big difference. And so

1342
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 2: I got arrested. I remember, I remember what this is

1343
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:12,720
Speaker 2: one of the few moments where I and I think

1344
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 2: it was again because my mother was dating a respectable guy,

1345
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 2: and so because of that, he went the guy she

1346
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 2: was dating on my court date to find out what

1347
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 2: my fate was going to be, went out and got

1348
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 2: me like a suit, the jacket and a tie, you know,

1349
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:32,439
Speaker 2: court suit, and then then let me know as we're

1350
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:35,960
Speaker 2: about to leave that they just were holding on him

1351
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:38,639
Speaker 2: to make me feel nervous because they had already gotten

1352
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:40,920
Speaker 2: the word back. I wasn't going to jail I had

1353
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 2: a certain amount of community hours and this thing on

1354
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:45,720
Speaker 2: my record up until I was like eighteen, and then

1355
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 2: that was the only thing that was going to happen.

1356
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 2: And I just remember, like I still had the picture

1357
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 2: of me in that suit with this look on my

1358
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 2: face and just like ah, like you know, and that

1359
01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:59,599
Speaker 2: was one of the I think. I mean, I'm not sure.

1360
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 2: I don't think that was a seminal point in my life.

1361
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't change anything at that point, but

1362
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 2: it was definitely it's a vivid memory that I what.

1363
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 1: Did your mother say when you got arrested.

1364
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 2: I don't think she was surprised. I mean I wasn't

1365
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 2: hanging out with the like you know, when your mom

1366
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:17,479
Speaker 2: always tells you, you keep hanging out with those guys,

1367
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:19,360
Speaker 2: you're gonna you're gonna wind up dead or in jail.

1368
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:22,599
Speaker 2: I mean she knew that, and luckily it was jail.

1369
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:27,519
Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned a number of rests. What were the

1370
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:28,480
Speaker 1: other arrests?

1371
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:33,840
Speaker 2: Uh? I got arrested once for Steele in a car.

1372
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:36,120
Speaker 2: I gotta I almost got to wrest with once for

1373
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 2: Steele in a house, which is kind of weird, like

1374
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:45,200
Speaker 2: somebody had like gone on vacation and So the neighbor

1375
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 2: was a friend of mine, and the neighbor like broke

1376
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:50,400
Speaker 2: into the house and they just but through a fucking

1377
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:54,240
Speaker 2: rager of a party. I mean, like cars around the block,

1378
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:58,320
Speaker 2: like not subtle in any way whatsoever. And I attend

1379
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 2: this party. But then I wake up and me and

1380
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:04,479
Speaker 2: this girl are like the only people in the house,

1381
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 2: and there's cops beating on the bedroom door. So then

1382
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:12,840
Speaker 2: it's just me, and I'm like, so I just tell

1383
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:15,160
Speaker 2: the cops that I'm from Alabama, that I just came

1384
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:17,120
Speaker 2: in to meet a friend, you know, and I'll go

1385
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:19,640
Speaker 2: get my friend. And I went out the door and

1386
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 2: I just ran as far as I could. And that's

1387
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:23,799
Speaker 2: the last I've heard of that situation.

1388
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 1: Okay, so you ended up dropping out of high school,

1389
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:29,080
Speaker 1: tell us about that.

1390
01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:32,080
Speaker 2: I dropped out of high school. I got my ged

1391
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 2: only because I thought that I was going to join

1392
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 2: the army. Like I went to the army recruitment place

1393
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:43,880
Speaker 2: I took I guess what's called the ASPAB, which is

1394
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:48,000
Speaker 2: just like your placement for you know, your aptitude tests

1395
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 2: to join the army. Turns out it's not a it's

1396
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:54,559
Speaker 2: not a very high bar. And I fucking aced it.

1397
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 2: I got like a ninety nine or something on it,

1398
01:10:56,360 --> 01:11:01,880
Speaker 2: and it was incredible, and they we're very excited, but

1399
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:03,040
Speaker 2: they said, you know you, but you have to have

1400
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:05,880
Speaker 2: a high school diploma, so you have to go. So

1401
01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 2: I went. I didn't I didn't take the class or anything.

1402
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:10,919
Speaker 2: I just went and got a ged and then luckily

1403
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 2: in that time, I met this group of guys. They

1404
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:19,320
Speaker 2: were older, they were seniors in high school age, and

1405
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 2: I was in freshman in high school age, maybe a junior,

1406
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 2: because at this point, at some point I left school.

1407
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:28,960
Speaker 2: But then I tried to come back, like in the

1408
01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:31,120
Speaker 2: tenth Like I left like maybe the beginning of tenth grade,

1409
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:32,600
Speaker 2: and I tried to come back by the beginning of

1410
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:34,639
Speaker 2: junior year kind of thing. But it didn't last long,

1411
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 2: and I wound up, you know, meeting these guys. One

1412
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:44,000
Speaker 2: of them was graduating that year and going to Berkeley

1413
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:45,280
Speaker 2: the next year.

1414
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 1: Berkeley College of Music and Music.

1415
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:52,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Berkeley ee of Boston that my son later

1416
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:58,600
Speaker 2: graduated from. And so it was through them that like

1417
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:01,960
Speaker 2: I started like learning how to He would give me

1418
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:03,840
Speaker 2: all of his music books, so I would learn like

1419
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:06,880
Speaker 2: chord structure and some music theory, you know, mixed with

1420
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:09,639
Speaker 2: you know, with practical books of how to play music

1421
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:12,960
Speaker 2: and teaching myself song by song, you know, every chord

1422
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:15,120
Speaker 2: and every notation in this song that I know, and

1423
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:17,800
Speaker 2: then this song and you know, and just keep doing

1424
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:20,479
Speaker 2: that and doing that. I wasn't really writing yet. I

1425
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:22,800
Speaker 2: was singing songs that these guys were writing, or we

1426
01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:27,519
Speaker 2: were doing covers and playing like eighteen and underclubs in Florida,

1427
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:32,800
Speaker 2: you know, those kind of a and it just I mean,

1428
01:12:33,080 --> 01:12:35,040
Speaker 2: that was just it. That was I felt like this

1429
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 2: was what I wanted to do. I knew it immediately

1430
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 2: from the first time that I just started playing. I

1431
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:43,600
Speaker 2: was like this, they just spoke to me, you know,

1432
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean I think it wasn't for that.

1433
01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:50,080
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, I was the only reason I wanted

1434
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:52,760
Speaker 2: to join the Army was because when you were in

1435
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:54,760
Speaker 2: when we were in high school, where did you grow up?

1436
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 1: Connecticut?

1437
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:57,880
Speaker 2: All right? So I don't know if they did this

1438
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:01,479
Speaker 2: in Connecticut, but like there would be a day once

1439
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:04,479
Speaker 2: a year where you go out to like the pavilion

1440
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:07,639
Speaker 2: or wherever outdoors, you know, lunch section or maybe in

1441
01:13:07,439 --> 01:13:10,800
Speaker 2: the cafeteria, and there was a band set up, like

1442
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:14,200
Speaker 2: a full band. They're playing like you're like hits from today,

1443
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:17,760
Speaker 2: but they're all in Army fatigues and they're all the

1444
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:18,599
Speaker 2: Army band.

1445
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:21,519
Speaker 1: You know, I went to high school in the Vietnam era.

1446
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:23,000
Speaker 1: Believe me, that wasn't happening.

1447
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:26,439
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, okay, So this was like their recruitment catch.

1448
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:29,920
Speaker 2: It was like, hey, look how fucking cool the Army is. Man.

1449
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:32,240
Speaker 2: We're laid back, We're just like you. We're playing Terrence

1450
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 2: Trent Darby man, you know, like we're fucking we're playing

1451
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:38,320
Speaker 2: the cure like this is where your people. You can

1452
01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 2: come to the Army. You want to do this? And

1453
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:43,280
Speaker 2: I was like, oh that shit worked on me immediately.

1454
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:45,080
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I could be this this, but

1455
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:46,920
Speaker 2: I can all but I can join the Army and

1456
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:48,920
Speaker 2: and have a you know, figure out what I'm going

1457
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 2: to do with my life and my even though my dad,

1458
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 2: who was in the Army, the only piece of advice

1459
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 2: he ever gave me was never joined the army. And

1460
01:13:55,240 --> 01:13:57,120
Speaker 2: I was this close to. I was this close to

1461
01:13:57,160 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 2: doing it. Like those recruitment videos, man, they really do work.

1462
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:00,840
Speaker 2: If you're out of options.

1463
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:05,120
Speaker 1: Usually, once they get their hooks in you, they don't

1464
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:08,479
Speaker 1: let you go that easily. Usually they track you down

1465
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:10,600
Speaker 1: to try to join. When you said you weren't going

1466
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:12,479
Speaker 1: to join, they keep coming after you.

1467
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 2: I think it's a lot easier to track you now.

1468
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:16,519
Speaker 2: Well now it's a lot easier in general, but it's

1469
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:19,280
Speaker 2: a lot easier if you haven't addressed like you know,

1470
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:21,160
Speaker 2: I was pretty fluid at the time.

1471
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:30,920
Speaker 1: Okay, So where did this music thing start?

1472
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:38,240
Speaker 2: I really don't know. I mean, I I remember, like

1473
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:41,400
Speaker 2: my sister saying that when I was like ten, eight

1474
01:14:41,439 --> 01:14:45,200
Speaker 2: to ten, I would I would like write little songs

1475
01:14:45,240 --> 01:14:47,559
Speaker 2: and I would put on little shows for my parents,

1476
01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:50,240
Speaker 2: you know, or for my sister for like cause it

1477
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:53,560
Speaker 2: was okay, this is another story that's going to sound satisfyed,

1478
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:56,080
Speaker 2: but I there's no other way to tell it. So,

1479
01:14:56,120 --> 01:14:58,640
Speaker 2: like one of the things was, like, you know, growing up,

1480
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:02,000
Speaker 2: when I was in like, you know, eighth grade, beginning

1481
01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 2: ninth grade, my mom, you know, she'd be out, she

1482
01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:06,840
Speaker 2: would meet some guys. She'd bring them home and then

1483
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:11,120
Speaker 2: wake me up at you know, one in the morning

1484
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:14,640
Speaker 2: to like keep him company and like go play a

1485
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 2: song on your keyboard. So I'm like performing for some

1486
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:19,960
Speaker 2: stranger while my mom goes and changes I goes. It

1487
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:23,639
Speaker 2: was a weird kind of thing, but it it gave

1488
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:26,920
Speaker 2: me the sense of like, oh wow, like this is

1489
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:28,880
Speaker 2: this is where my mom has her pride in me,

1490
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:33,320
Speaker 2: you know. And so when I perform that mean you

1491
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:36,479
Speaker 2: know that that's I get this rush of endorphins of like, oh,

1492
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:39,760
Speaker 2: you know, I feel and that never went away, that

1493
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:43,680
Speaker 2: you know, that need for you know, for that I

1494
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:49,000
Speaker 2: that what is it? Robin Williams caught it like the

1495
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:50,720
Speaker 2: the kind of love that you can only the kind

1496
01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:52,439
Speaker 2: of a hug that you can only get from a stranger,

1497
01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:55,040
Speaker 2: you know, like I learned to I learned to really

1498
01:15:55,280 --> 01:15:59,680
Speaker 2: crave that, uh during that time. But I think it was,

1499
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:03,360
Speaker 2: you know, maybe the fact that it was these guys

1500
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:05,360
Speaker 2: that I met to me they were really cool. Like

1501
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:08,320
Speaker 2: they weren't degenerates like my other group of friends. They

1502
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:10,360
Speaker 2: were they still had fun, They still were out drinking,

1503
01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:11,960
Speaker 2: they were partying, they were doing but they there was

1504
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:14,240
Speaker 2: a wholesome noess about it, and there was a camaraderie

1505
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:17,559
Speaker 2: and a fraternal order to it that was really really cool,

1506
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:21,439
Speaker 2: you know. And uh and so and they like when

1507
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:23,640
Speaker 2: I would talk about, you know, well, we're gonna go

1508
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:26,439
Speaker 2: out and we're gonna you know, like we're gonna vandalize this,

1509
01:16:26,479 --> 01:16:28,200
Speaker 2: and we're gonna do this there would they looked at

1510
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:30,320
Speaker 2: me with like such disappointment, like, oh, come on, man,

1511
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:33,280
Speaker 2: that's not not cool, you know, And I wanted to

1512
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:35,639
Speaker 2: I wanted them to like me, you know, this older

1513
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:37,759
Speaker 2: group of guys that thought I was cool. I wanted

1514
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 2: them to like me. So I think, you know, just

1515
01:16:41,320 --> 01:16:44,519
Speaker 2: like everybody else, I you could trace everything back to

1516
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:49,120
Speaker 2: needing some you get something you need from from a situation,

1517
01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 2: and you keep chasing that feeling, you know. And so

1518
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 2: music really I felt I felt that like that that

1519
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:58,639
Speaker 2: little missing piece they kept every time I was around music,

1520
01:16:58,720 --> 01:17:01,360
Speaker 2: every time I was playing music. It kind of filled

1521
01:17:01,400 --> 01:17:03,880
Speaker 2: that hole for me a little bit, and still does.

1522
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:07,320
Speaker 1: Honestly, what about music lessons learning how to play the piano,

1523
01:17:07,439 --> 01:17:10,080
Speaker 1: the guitaris.

1524
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:11,479
Speaker 2: I wish that I had taken them, honestly. I mean,

1525
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:15,800
Speaker 2: I I'm a pretty good piano player. I wish that

1526
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:18,280
Speaker 2: I had taken piano because it wouldn't take me as

1527
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:20,160
Speaker 2: long to get it, you know, to get better at it.

1528
01:17:20,479 --> 01:17:24,160
Speaker 2: I wish I had taken guitar, but I'm like a

1529
01:17:24,600 --> 01:17:27,200
Speaker 2: really shitty guitar player. Like at some point, if I'm

1530
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:29,760
Speaker 2: writing a song on the guitar, I might have to

1531
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:32,439
Speaker 2: put it down and go to the piano because I hit,

1532
01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 2: I hit a chord that I know that I want

1533
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:36,200
Speaker 2: to get to, but I don't know it on the

1534
01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:38,519
Speaker 2: on the guitar. You know, Like, now I've got it

1535
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:40,400
Speaker 2: down to a science where I could play in front

1536
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:43,200
Speaker 2: of twenty thousand people, and if I know the song,

1537
01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:45,880
Speaker 2: I will fool even you to look like I know

1538
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:49,879
Speaker 2: what the hell I'm doing, you know, but I tell everybody.

1539
01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 2: You know, when you always get asked questions about advice

1540
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:54,720
Speaker 2: for young musicians things like that, it's like, no matter

1541
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:59,080
Speaker 2: how uncool it seems, go take the lessons, learn the road,

1542
01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:01,759
Speaker 2: you know, like learn and learn all of these basic

1543
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:03,839
Speaker 2: things that's going to make your life so much easier.

1544
01:18:04,040 --> 01:18:06,759
Speaker 2: And no matter how cool the guitarist, start on the piano,

1545
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:08,880
Speaker 2: because if you start on the piano, you can pivot

1546
01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:13,040
Speaker 2: to almost any instrument because the music makes more sense

1547
01:18:13,080 --> 01:18:14,559
Speaker 2: to you. It's laid out on the piano the same

1548
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:16,439
Speaker 2: way it is on the page. And you know, if

1549
01:18:16,439 --> 01:18:18,000
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, like there's a there's a

1550
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:19,960
Speaker 2: certain sense where the skills are all just right there

1551
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:20,479
Speaker 2: in front of you.

1552
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 1: Okay, you're gonna go in the army. You meet these

1553
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:29,320
Speaker 1: guys going to Berkeley. So what's the next step. How

1554
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:31,599
Speaker 1: do you ultimately perform?

1555
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:34,759
Speaker 2: Well, we play a lot of like, you know, friends parties,

1556
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:36,799
Speaker 2: Like I said, these kind of like.

1557
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:40,360
Speaker 1: And what's your role? Are you the front guy.

1558
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:44,559
Speaker 2: On the front guy? Like? Okay? Our songs are like Hunger,

1559
01:18:44,680 --> 01:18:51,200
Speaker 2: like the Wolf Lady in Red's Tall Cool and remember

1560
01:18:51,200 --> 01:18:55,160
Speaker 2: the Robert Plant solo Tall Cool One. I'm only saying

1561
01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:57,479
Speaker 2: these to give you a sense of reference of the time,

1562
01:18:57,640 --> 01:19:00,800
Speaker 2: right this absolutely these kind of eighty songs mixed in

1563
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:02,720
Speaker 2: with stuff like old time rock and roll and things

1564
01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:05,360
Speaker 2: that we ass like we gotta we gotta gig one time.

1565
01:19:07,080 --> 01:19:08,639
Speaker 2: One of the fun of the times I quit school

1566
01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:15,080
Speaker 2: is because all Right, the keyboard player, his family knew

1567
01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:19,160
Speaker 2: how had family friends that owned a sheraton in Vero

1568
01:19:19,360 --> 01:19:22,519
Speaker 2: Beach and needed a band to play by the pool.

1569
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:27,839
Speaker 2: And so we were the pool band in this sheraton

1570
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:29,800
Speaker 2: in Vero Beach. And then we got to stay at

1571
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:33,719
Speaker 2: the hotel and we imploded within a week. Within a week,

1572
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:35,799
Speaker 2: we had figured out how to break in to steal

1573
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:38,479
Speaker 2: all the liquor from the places I was. I was,

1574
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:42,360
Speaker 2: I was sleeping with the owner's daughter. Like the whole

1575
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:45,519
Speaker 2: thing just fell around us. And I remember the owner

1576
01:19:46,120 --> 01:19:50,439
Speaker 2: she had like broken English, and she was like pulled

1577
01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:52,559
Speaker 2: us in and they're just so disappointed and yelling at

1578
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:54,920
Speaker 2: us across the dead and she's just going, you you

1579
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:57,720
Speaker 2: are not the stars. Maybe one day, one day you

1580
01:19:57,760 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 2: will be the stars. But right now, you are not

1581
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:03,439
Speaker 2: the stars. And we got fired from that. So we

1582
01:20:03,439 --> 01:20:09,160
Speaker 2: were doing these kind of gigs and then I like

1583
01:20:09,439 --> 01:20:12,040
Speaker 2: they went off. We had a band called Tidal Wave,

1584
01:20:12,160 --> 01:20:17,040
Speaker 2: which was a we would play metal clubs and it

1585
01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:21,640
Speaker 2: was all like punk versions of like surf songs. So

1586
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:23,880
Speaker 2: it was like like the covers would be like Wily Bully,

1587
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:26,799
Speaker 2: but like these like amped up versions of Willly Bully.

1588
01:20:27,640 --> 01:20:29,479
Speaker 2: And it was a bunch of these guys from Jersey

1589
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:32,000
Speaker 2: that had come down. So this was like after the

1590
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:33,720
Speaker 2: guy went to Berkeley the first year, he came back

1591
01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:35,559
Speaker 2: in the summer and brought some guys from Berkeley back.

1592
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:38,360
Speaker 2: We started Tidal Wave, these guys from Jersey that had

1593
01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:40,800
Speaker 2: never been to the fucking beach, writing all these songs

1594
01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:43,080
Speaker 2: about like Johnny's Got a Wave and me and my

1595
01:20:43,160 --> 01:20:45,360
Speaker 2: surfer girl. They were all these you know, and we

1596
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:48,040
Speaker 2: would play these metal band metal clubs, and the metal

1597
01:20:48,080 --> 01:20:50,080
Speaker 2: clubs would love us because we had so much energy.

1598
01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:52,040
Speaker 2: We were just fucking running and jumping on the bar

1599
01:20:52,120 --> 01:20:54,360
Speaker 2: and just like fucking ah, and they just thought it was,

1600
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:56,240
Speaker 2: you know, the greatest thing in the world. They didn't

1601
01:20:56,280 --> 01:21:01,240
Speaker 2: like the music, and so we had that going. Eventually,

1602
01:21:01,240 --> 01:21:02,680
Speaker 2: that whole thing, you know, it was it was just

1603
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:04,200
Speaker 2: kind of dependent on them when they were home for

1604
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:06,960
Speaker 2: the summers and things like that. And so I started

1605
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:10,920
Speaker 2: to just get jobs, like normal jobs, restaurants, a lot

1606
01:21:10,960 --> 01:21:13,120
Speaker 2: of construction in Florida, like working as a roofer and

1607
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:18,160
Speaker 2: drywall and painting and those kind of things. And then

1608
01:21:19,040 --> 01:21:21,920
Speaker 2: I started writing again on my piano. I was hitchhiking

1609
01:21:21,960 --> 01:21:24,240
Speaker 2: a little bit here and there. I had this little

1610
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:27,000
Speaker 2: keyboard that I still have over here that I was

1611
01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:28,760
Speaker 2: like on the I remember, like three o'clock in the morning,

1612
01:21:28,760 --> 01:21:30,080
Speaker 2: I would sit on the side of the road my

1613
01:21:30,120 --> 01:21:32,920
Speaker 2: little keyboard, you know, working out songs. Three Am was

1614
01:21:32,960 --> 01:21:36,920
Speaker 2: a song that came during that time. And so I

1615
01:21:37,080 --> 01:21:39,880
Speaker 2: meet with a couple of guys that are local guys

1616
01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:46,040
Speaker 2: who we started talking about starting a band. I really

1617
01:21:46,200 --> 01:21:48,120
Speaker 2: really started to get into the idea. I started writing

1618
01:21:48,160 --> 01:21:50,400
Speaker 2: a few more songs, and we put an ad out

1619
01:21:50,439 --> 01:21:54,200
Speaker 2: in the local jam magazine, which was like the regional

1620
01:21:54,680 --> 01:22:02,280
Speaker 2: you know, rock magazine for a drummer. I had met Brian,

1621
01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:06,479
Speaker 2: our bass player already, this guy John and Jay who

1622
01:22:06,479 --> 01:22:10,080
Speaker 2: are these two guitar players when we'd just gone to Berkeley,

1623
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:14,400
Speaker 2: and Paul, who later again became my best friend, who

1624
01:22:14,479 --> 01:22:19,720
Speaker 2: was our drummer for twelve years, answered the ad and

1625
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:23,080
Speaker 2: that was how Matchbox twenty we were tabbing the Secret

1626
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:26,200
Speaker 2: at the time. And then that was like that was

1627
01:22:26,240 --> 01:22:28,120
Speaker 2: when we were the first like band where it was

1628
01:22:28,160 --> 01:22:30,479
Speaker 2: like we were doing gigs on the rag. We were

1629
01:22:30,479 --> 01:22:32,640
Speaker 2: playing regionally. We'd get the band and trailer and go

1630
01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:34,840
Speaker 2: play gigs in Tennessee and go play gigs in North

1631
01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:39,320
Speaker 2: Carolina and South Carolina. We had become like kind of

1632
01:22:39,320 --> 01:22:42,200
Speaker 2: the big local band, which doesn't mean a lot, It

1633
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:45,120
Speaker 2: just means that like sometimes if like Hoody and the Blowfish,

1634
01:22:45,439 --> 01:22:47,360
Speaker 2: you know, they were just blowing up at the time,

1635
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:50,240
Speaker 2: if they would come through town and didn't have an opener,

1636
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:52,320
Speaker 2: we would be the band that they would get called

1637
01:22:52,360 --> 01:22:53,920
Speaker 2: to come in and open up. So we get to

1638
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:56,559
Speaker 2: do it like we put like we opened for Ween

1639
01:22:57,120 --> 01:22:59,479
Speaker 2: one time, which is great, we opened for Cake like

1640
01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:05,000
Speaker 2: there's things great, you know, for us, and then that

1641
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:12,360
Speaker 2: band imploded as bands due but luckily the three of

1642
01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:14,840
Speaker 2: us still me, Brian and Paul still kind of shared

1643
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:19,800
Speaker 2: a vision. And then that's when I meet Matt Serlenik,

1644
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:23,920
Speaker 2: who at the time it just had some success with

1645
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:29,680
Speaker 2: Collective Soul and was looking for a new band. His

1646
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:34,920
Speaker 2: brother went to college in Orlando, saw our band. Matt

1647
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:39,680
Speaker 2: came to check us out. He signed me to a

1648
01:23:39,680 --> 01:23:44,559
Speaker 2: production deal, and then Atlantic Records wanted to sign me

1649
01:23:45,320 --> 01:23:51,679
Speaker 2: to deal through him, and I was a little scared

1650
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:56,000
Speaker 2: to sign my own deal. So my only prerequisite was

1651
01:23:56,000 --> 01:23:57,120
Speaker 2: that I would do it, but I had to do

1652
01:23:57,120 --> 01:23:59,439
Speaker 2: it with Paul and Brian. So the three of us

1653
01:24:02,320 --> 01:24:06,800
Speaker 2: had a deal before we had a name, and then

1654
01:24:06,840 --> 01:24:11,360
Speaker 2: we uh, we signed. We signed the deal. We find

1655
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:13,320
Speaker 2: we go in a search, We find these two guitar

1656
01:24:13,320 --> 01:24:15,800
Speaker 2: players that that we really like and we get along with.

1657
01:24:15,880 --> 01:24:20,559
Speaker 2: And then I it became very litigious this situation with

1658
01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:24,000
Speaker 2: the other two guitar players. I didn't understand copyrights, and

1659
01:24:24,080 --> 01:24:26,200
Speaker 2: so one of the guys in this band would take

1660
01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:28,840
Speaker 2: all these songs that I had written, draw up copyright

1661
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:31,400
Speaker 2: forms and bring them in for us all to sign,

1662
01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:36,160
Speaker 2: and so I just would sign away, you know, three

1663
01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:38,280
Speaker 2: quarters to you know, to everybody else in the band.

1664
01:24:39,080 --> 01:24:43,320
Speaker 2: And so they were kind of holding those songs over

1665
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:45,639
Speaker 2: me when I got the deal, and like, we're gonna

1666
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:48,600
Speaker 2: sue you because these are our things. And and so

1667
01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:51,240
Speaker 2: the only thing I could think to do was I

1668
01:24:51,320 --> 01:24:55,240
Speaker 2: just wrote another record, so like and thank god, because

1669
01:24:55,280 --> 01:24:58,240
Speaker 2: that first record wasn't great. Like they always say that

1670
01:24:58,280 --> 01:25:01,200
Speaker 2: you have your whole life up to write your first

1671
01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:03,160
Speaker 2: record and that's why the second record is so hard.

1672
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:06,400
Speaker 2: But in all honesty, Bob, I wrote my first record

1673
01:25:06,439 --> 01:25:08,800
Speaker 2: was my second record, and I had six months to

1674
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:12,400
Speaker 2: write it. So we would just spend all of our

1675
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:13,960
Speaker 2: time because we knew that we didn't have a lot

1676
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:16,320
Speaker 2: of money to be in a studio, even though we

1677
01:25:16,360 --> 01:25:18,280
Speaker 2: had more than we thought, like we got like four

1678
01:25:18,320 --> 01:25:20,639
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars or something, you know, for the deal

1679
01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:22,719
Speaker 2: to go make the record. We spend it all almost

1680
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:25,680
Speaker 2: all in the record in gear, but we wanted to

1681
01:25:25,720 --> 01:25:27,400
Speaker 2: be able to step in there, so we would spend

1682
01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:31,720
Speaker 2: hours every day in like a actual shed, shedding these

1683
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:33,559
Speaker 2: songs so that we could play them live. I would

1684
01:25:33,560 --> 01:25:35,719
Speaker 2: write a new song, we'd bring it into the band.

1685
01:25:35,880 --> 01:25:38,240
Speaker 2: We would learn that song so we could play it

1686
01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:40,920
Speaker 2: off book like, you know, not spend too much time

1687
01:25:40,920 --> 01:25:43,760
Speaker 2: in the studio. And so by the time we went

1688
01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:46,200
Speaker 2: in the studio that that whole first yourself or someone

1689
01:25:46,280 --> 01:25:48,600
Speaker 2: like you was all written. And the only thing that

1690
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:50,680
Speaker 2: I kept was three Am, just because that song meant

1691
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:53,680
Speaker 2: a lot to me. And you know, it's funny is

1692
01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:57,960
Speaker 2: to this day like Pooky from Matchbox all them any

1693
01:25:58,040 --> 01:26:00,519
Speaker 2: proceeds he gets heat because he thinks it's ridiculous. He

1694
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:03,400
Speaker 2: didn't write it. So any proceeds gets from three Am,

1695
01:26:04,120 --> 01:26:05,000
Speaker 2: he gives it to charity.

1696
01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:15,880
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. You signed a deal with Matt Surletic,

1697
01:26:16,120 --> 01:26:16,800
Speaker 1: yes or no?

1698
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:19,280
Speaker 2: Yes, a production deal?

1699
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:24,120
Speaker 1: Okay? Was that just you or was that the three

1700
01:26:24,160 --> 01:26:24,400
Speaker 1: of you?

1701
01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:27,639
Speaker 2: It was the three of us? It was all around

1702
01:26:27,640 --> 01:26:30,800
Speaker 2: the same time. So we signed with them. We signed

1703
01:26:30,840 --> 01:26:34,519
Speaker 2: with Atlantic Atlantic. It turns out, so Matt was going

1704
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:40,080
Speaker 2: to produce the record. Atlantic Records wasn't as comfortable about

1705
01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:44,839
Speaker 2: giving these three guys from Florida four hundred thousand dollars,

1706
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:49,200
Speaker 2: but they were more comfortable doing it through Matt Serletic

1707
01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:51,439
Speaker 2: and his production companies since they had, you know, a

1708
01:26:52,200 --> 01:26:54,640
Speaker 2: collective Soul was on Atlantic at the time, so they

1709
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:56,800
Speaker 2: had already had some success with Matt. So that was

1710
01:26:56,840 --> 01:27:00,200
Speaker 2: where the production deal had come in. Was they weren't

1711
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:02,240
Speaker 2: ready to secure a straight deal with US in Atlantic,

1712
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:04,160
Speaker 2: but they were willing to do it as a production deal.

1713
01:27:04,680 --> 01:27:08,799
Speaker 1: Okay, Traditionally traditional production deal, you're signed to production company.

1714
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:12,040
Speaker 1: Production makes a deal with Atlantic and they take a whack,

1715
01:27:12,840 --> 01:27:15,880
Speaker 1: so the act actually makes less. Is that what happened

1716
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:17,040
Speaker 1: throughout your career.

1717
01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:20,599
Speaker 2: Up into a certain point, Like I mean, Matt still

1718
01:27:20,680 --> 01:27:23,120
Speaker 2: gets money whether he produces a record or not, that's

1719
01:27:23,120 --> 01:27:24,920
Speaker 2: always in the deal. But he found us, and then

1720
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:28,599
Speaker 2: that's that we agreed. That's why you agree on those

1721
01:27:28,600 --> 01:27:30,920
Speaker 2: things early on, because you're hoping for the success, not

1722
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:32,720
Speaker 2: that when the success comes later you're like, oh, we

1723
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:35,960
Speaker 2: have to read you know. But you know, to Matt's credit,

1724
01:27:36,479 --> 01:27:42,920
Speaker 2: he did change his payment fee so that because it

1725
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:45,439
Speaker 2: turns out like if we were splitting money and he

1726
01:27:45,520 --> 01:27:48,439
Speaker 2: was getting paid like on the gross, he would make

1727
01:27:48,479 --> 01:27:53,200
Speaker 2: more money than any individual member, right. And when we

1728
01:27:53,560 --> 01:27:55,280
Speaker 2: kind of sat and talked with him, because it man

1729
01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:58,400
Speaker 2: had him with us for many years. Matt restructured his

1730
01:27:58,479 --> 01:28:01,240
Speaker 2: deal so that he was just a six member and

1731
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:04,960
Speaker 2: then everything we do would be equal. And that was

1732
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:07,080
Speaker 2: fine because you know, we were and now this is

1733
01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:08,679
Speaker 2: the time, you know, we were playing live. We're making

1734
01:28:08,720 --> 01:28:12,160
Speaker 2: most of our money live and merchandising and publishing. That

1735
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:15,280
Speaker 2: was money he wasn't seeing. So that was I thought

1736
01:28:15,320 --> 01:28:16,840
Speaker 2: that was really big of him.

1737
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:20,480
Speaker 1: Okay, how about the publishing? Do you own all the publishing?

1738
01:28:21,960 --> 01:28:23,800
Speaker 2: I own what I haven't sold?

1739
01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:26,800
Speaker 1: Was that a little bit slower? When you made the

1740
01:28:26,800 --> 01:28:29,600
Speaker 1: deal with Matsroletic and ultimately Link, did you have to

1741
01:28:29,640 --> 01:28:30,800
Speaker 1: give up any publishing?

1742
01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:31,920
Speaker 2: No? None.

1743
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:34,479
Speaker 1: Okay, so you own a one hundred percent of the public

1744
01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:36,479
Speaker 1: machine you have sold some of that?

1745
01:28:37,760 --> 01:28:40,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm now I've made a deal with Roundhill where

1746
01:28:40,840 --> 01:28:44,200
Speaker 2: I sold off like seventy percent. I still retain thirty

1747
01:28:44,360 --> 01:28:47,200
Speaker 2: because I still want to participate in success, you know.

1748
01:28:47,360 --> 01:28:50,400
Speaker 1: Okay, just to be clear, seventy percent of the songs

1749
01:28:50,479 --> 01:28:53,719
Speaker 1: or seventy percent of the record royalties are.

1750
01:28:53,560 --> 01:28:57,640
Speaker 2: Both just just the songwriting publishing part of it.

1751
01:28:58,720 --> 01:28:59,920
Speaker 1: How long would you make that deal?

1752
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:04,799
Speaker 2: Right before COVID? I think so, I would say twenty

1753
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:06,120
Speaker 2: nineteen to the twenty.

1754
01:29:06,439 --> 01:29:09,240
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're happy you made that deal five years later?

1755
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:13,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, like I I was, I

1756
01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:17,519
Speaker 2: had been with you know, with with uh EMI for

1757
01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:21,600
Speaker 2: a really long time, and I start to find that,

1758
01:29:21,680 --> 01:29:23,040
Speaker 2: like as you know, as we get older and you

1759
01:29:23,080 --> 01:29:26,439
Speaker 2: fall out of favor a giant corporation like that, when

1760
01:29:26,479 --> 01:29:28,519
Speaker 2: they start thinking about songs for sak when they start

1761
01:29:28,560 --> 01:29:30,800
Speaker 2: thinking about the artists either at the top of their mind,

1762
01:29:31,120 --> 01:29:32,879
Speaker 2: I don't it's hard for you to be there anymore

1763
01:29:33,120 --> 01:29:35,200
Speaker 2: because they have the fresh and the new, you know,

1764
01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:37,760
Speaker 2: And so I thought it was a really good time

1765
01:29:37,800 --> 01:29:39,600
Speaker 2: for me to kind of be a part of a

1766
01:29:39,760 --> 01:29:42,719
Speaker 2: smaller family that was thinking about me a little bit more.

1767
01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:46,320
Speaker 2: And Evan Lamberg had already left and gone off to Universal,

1768
01:29:46,640 --> 01:29:49,080
Speaker 2: and Evan, you know, was my main reason for signing

1769
01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:51,479
Speaker 2: with EMI in the first place. So it you know,

1770
01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:53,519
Speaker 2: it was an easy decision to make. Even though the

1771
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:56,880
Speaker 2: EMI guys, which later on became EMI Sony, they've always

1772
01:29:56,920 --> 01:30:08,200
Speaker 2: been amazing. So what you do with the money, I

1773
01:30:08,240 --> 01:30:09,360
Speaker 2: don't have to tell you that.

1774
01:30:11,800 --> 01:30:13,240
Speaker 1: You have to tell me anything.

1775
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:16,559
Speaker 2: No, I mean, I listen, I've I've my wife and

1776
01:30:16,600 --> 01:30:20,360
Speaker 2: I we were we're really well invested. We we were

1777
01:30:20,360 --> 01:30:23,120
Speaker 2: not crazy spenders. We're not we don't take a lot

1778
01:30:23,160 --> 01:30:25,760
Speaker 2: of risks are investing. You know, we've we've managed to

1779
01:30:26,120 --> 01:30:29,920
Speaker 2: maintain and grow everything really really well. So you know,

1780
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:34,679
Speaker 2: like it's we're not I'm never really I never thought

1781
01:30:34,680 --> 01:30:36,840
Speaker 2: about money as the means to own anything. It was

1782
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:40,120
Speaker 2: always like money was a means for experiences, you know,

1783
01:30:40,160 --> 01:30:42,360
Speaker 2: like I would I would. I love being able to

1784
01:30:43,280 --> 01:30:45,640
Speaker 2: take vacations with my family and take people out. I

1785
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:47,599
Speaker 2: love being able to go to nice dinners and bring

1786
01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:51,639
Speaker 2: everybody together and have this moment. But I don't really

1787
01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:54,240
Speaker 2: need to own very much. You know, we have a

1788
01:30:54,320 --> 01:30:56,120
Speaker 2: nice house, we have a nice car in the garage.

1789
01:30:56,479 --> 01:30:59,040
Speaker 2: That's we're good, you know where we need to be.

1790
01:30:59,120 --> 01:31:01,160
Speaker 2: I don't like, I don't mean much status symbol.

1791
01:31:01,840 --> 01:31:03,559
Speaker 1: Well, let me put it a different way. You get

1792
01:31:03,560 --> 01:31:06,320
Speaker 1: a big check, did you buy anything or you just

1793
01:31:06,400 --> 01:31:07,320
Speaker 1: invest all of it?

1794
01:31:07,960 --> 01:31:09,719
Speaker 2: No, I just it just went back in the pile

1795
01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:13,800
Speaker 2: with the rest. I mean, I already I've already been

1796
01:31:13,800 --> 01:31:17,040
Speaker 2: like we'd already done been doing really really well. This

1797
01:31:17,240 --> 01:31:19,519
Speaker 2: was just a it was just kind of one of

1798
01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:21,640
Speaker 2: those things of like, well let's let's look at the

1799
01:31:21,720 --> 01:31:25,080
Speaker 2: landscape of music. Let's let's start to understand the power

1800
01:31:25,120 --> 01:31:29,840
Speaker 2: of your catalog back when, but even just when you

1801
01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:33,840
Speaker 2: could when the greatest hits made sense, right, which you

1802
01:31:33,880 --> 01:31:36,320
Speaker 2: know now the greatest hits is it doesn't exist anymore

1803
01:31:36,360 --> 01:31:38,439
Speaker 2: because I can get your greatest hits. I can just

1804
01:31:38,439 --> 01:31:40,960
Speaker 2: go on Spotify and I make your greatest hits, which

1805
01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:43,559
Speaker 2: every way I want to, I can find everything that's

1806
01:31:43,600 --> 01:31:48,519
Speaker 2: out there. The the value is probably you know, it

1807
01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:53,439
Speaker 2: still exists in sync and things like that. But for

1808
01:31:53,479 --> 01:31:56,479
Speaker 2: that for that stuff to be valuable, people need to

1809
01:31:56,920 --> 01:31:59,200
Speaker 2: be working it and people need to you know, to

1810
01:32:00,080 --> 01:32:03,240
Speaker 2: be actively working on your catalog. And so that to

1811
01:32:03,280 --> 01:32:05,760
Speaker 2: me was I think was the reason, Like it just

1812
01:32:05,800 --> 01:32:08,879
Speaker 2: doesn't have the value the ownership of it. The songs

1813
01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:12,000
Speaker 2: are still there, and that connection that I have every night,

1814
01:32:12,280 --> 01:32:15,799
Speaker 2: like we're gonna have a show at the Prudential Center Thursday,

1815
01:32:16,000 --> 01:32:18,080
Speaker 2: that connection is still going to be there. That doesn't

1816
01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:20,519
Speaker 2: go away. And that's the one you know, that I

1817
01:32:21,200 --> 01:32:24,920
Speaker 2: own forever. There's not really more that I have the

1818
01:32:24,960 --> 01:32:27,880
Speaker 2: benefit from from owning that publishing, and I think a

1819
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:30,040
Speaker 2: lot of artists are starting to realize that now as well.

1820
01:32:30,360 --> 01:32:32,800
Speaker 2: You hear about these maze you know, people like Springsteen, you.

1821
01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:37,479
Speaker 1: Know, right, so your songs round he'll own seventy percent.

1822
01:32:38,280 --> 01:32:40,960
Speaker 1: Is there anything you say that they can't do with them?

1823
01:32:42,640 --> 01:32:46,519
Speaker 2: I have? Yeah. I have the complete right to say

1824
01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:48,120
Speaker 2: no to any like if they want to use it

1825
01:32:48,160 --> 01:32:50,760
Speaker 2: in some way that I don't want. I have the

1826
01:32:50,840 --> 01:32:52,519
Speaker 2: complete say over how they get used.

1827
01:32:54,280 --> 01:32:56,439
Speaker 1: Just generally speaking, what would you say no to?

1828
01:32:59,240 --> 01:33:01,800
Speaker 2: The first thing that popping in mind would probably be

1829
01:33:03,280 --> 01:33:06,720
Speaker 2: something political that I don't agree with, like that, you know,

1830
01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:10,639
Speaker 2: that would be a problem for me. You know, maybe

1831
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:16,200
Speaker 2: certain uh, pharmaceutical you know, commercials, maybe that I don't

1832
01:33:16,520 --> 01:33:20,280
Speaker 2: officially totally agree with. You just you never know when

1833
01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:21,800
Speaker 2: just something's going to be like I do. I don't

1834
01:33:21,880 --> 01:33:24,080
Speaker 2: like that look for me, you know, Like I'm not

1835
01:33:24,680 --> 01:33:27,639
Speaker 2: like Carlos and I always joke like we're not we're

1836
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:30,639
Speaker 2: not ready for Smooth to be an x Lax commercial

1837
01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:35,439
Speaker 2: just yet, like we gotta we gotta call once where

1838
01:33:35,439 --> 01:33:38,800
Speaker 2: it was like it was a commercial for Smooth and

1839
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:42,160
Speaker 2: it was like a Mercedes commercial, but it was kind

1840
01:33:42,200 --> 01:33:45,960
Speaker 2: of like the Vibe where the guys listening to Smooth

1841
01:33:46,840 --> 01:33:48,800
Speaker 2: and then the hot girl goes by and listening to

1842
01:33:48,880 --> 01:33:53,880
Speaker 2: Maria Cabo or whatever, you know, and and we're like, yeah, no,

1843
01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:56,240
Speaker 2: like that's you know, that's that's We're not ready to

1844
01:33:56,240 --> 01:33:58,040
Speaker 2: put that nail in that coffin just yet. You know,

1845
01:33:58,120 --> 01:34:00,680
Speaker 2: we're still we're still trying to keep the illusional. But

1846
01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 2: the third time, when smooth comes back around, you know,

1847
01:34:03,280 --> 01:34:04,000
Speaker 2: and it's cool again.

1848
01:34:05,240 --> 01:34:07,200
Speaker 1: How'd you hook up with Michael Lipman who's on the

1849
01:34:07,200 --> 01:34:07,880
Speaker 1: West Coast.

1850
01:34:10,439 --> 01:34:13,320
Speaker 2: He was managing Macheletic because he managed his producers at

1851
01:34:13,360 --> 01:34:16,360
Speaker 2: the time as well. Michael had had a lot of success,

1852
01:34:16,360 --> 01:34:18,320
Speaker 2: but the only thing that he had never done was

1853
01:34:18,360 --> 01:34:22,120
Speaker 2: take a band from zero. He never had a brand

1854
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:24,400
Speaker 2: new band, and that was just something he always wanted

1855
01:34:24,439 --> 01:34:26,839
Speaker 2: to do, and so he took us on as that project.

1856
01:34:27,200 --> 01:34:30,800
Speaker 2: He honestly, it was so similar in everything that we did.

1857
01:34:30,840 --> 01:34:32,920
Speaker 2: He came to see us the first time he ever

1858
01:34:32,920 --> 01:34:35,960
Speaker 2: saw us play live, walked backstage and said, well, how

1859
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:38,840
Speaker 2: much money did you get from your publishing And I said, well,

1860
01:34:38,880 --> 01:34:41,559
Speaker 2: I think I got about four hundred thousand. He goes,

1861
01:34:41,960 --> 01:34:45,559
Speaker 2: My advice to you is put that money away and invested,

1862
01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:47,720
Speaker 2: because it's all the money you're ever going to see.

1863
01:34:47,800 --> 01:34:49,599
Speaker 2: If this is how you think a show should be played.

1864
01:34:52,360 --> 01:34:57,639
Speaker 2: And then he quit and he walked out of the room.

1865
01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:00,840
Speaker 2: And then and then we called him and begged them

1866
01:35:00,880 --> 01:35:03,120
Speaker 2: to come back. And then I think like a week

1867
01:35:03,200 --> 01:35:05,720
Speaker 2: later he I got into a fight because he I

1868
01:35:05,800 --> 01:35:07,720
Speaker 2: just didn't think that it mattered what clothes you wore

1869
01:35:07,720 --> 01:35:09,600
Speaker 2: in a video. I was like, nobody cares about what

1870
01:35:09,640 --> 01:35:11,880
Speaker 2: they you know, you wear, and Mike was like, last night,

1871
01:35:12,000 --> 01:35:14,519
Speaker 2: He's like, he tell me always the story, Like, you know,

1872
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:17,320
Speaker 2: you know Bruce Springsteen. You think that Bruce Springstein just

1873
01:35:17,360 --> 01:35:19,840
Speaker 2: wears any jeans and any T shirt. He's like, you

1874
01:35:19,840 --> 01:35:21,840
Speaker 2: don't think that he's got the exact right teams and

1875
01:35:21,880 --> 01:35:24,679
Speaker 2: the exact you know is the trust me. Everybody cares.

1876
01:35:25,320 --> 01:35:28,080
Speaker 2: It just depends on how you show it, you know.

1877
01:35:28,160 --> 01:35:30,040
Speaker 2: And I remember walking out of the restaurant fucking you,

1878
01:35:30,120 --> 01:35:31,880
Speaker 2: fuck you. You know. We quit on each other quite

1879
01:35:31,880 --> 01:35:36,000
Speaker 2: a few times. But he's been very much a paternal

1880
01:35:36,160 --> 01:35:37,639
Speaker 2: figure throughout my entire life.

1881
01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:43,439
Speaker 1: Okay. What I remember was, especially in LA, there ended

1882
01:35:43,560 --> 01:35:47,040
Speaker 1: up being an acoustic version of Push, which they played

1883
01:35:47,080 --> 01:35:50,760
Speaker 1: in a top forty on the FM station. Was that

1884
01:35:50,840 --> 01:35:53,360
Speaker 1: an anomaly? Although there are you know, once Napster hit,

1885
01:35:53,400 --> 01:35:56,519
Speaker 1: there were a million versions now on YouTube. Is that

1886
01:35:56,560 --> 01:35:59,559
Speaker 1: a factor in the success of Push, the acoustic version?

1887
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:03,400
Speaker 2: No, no, no, it was a product of it Push.

1888
01:36:03,479 --> 01:36:05,360
Speaker 2: I mean the reason why Push was a success is

1889
01:36:05,360 --> 01:36:09,679
Speaker 2: because it was nineteen ninety six ninety seven and Dave Rossi,

1890
01:36:09,760 --> 01:36:12,760
Speaker 2: who ran I think the edge in Birmingham, Like it

1891
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:14,639
Speaker 2: was at a time where if you're a programmed director

1892
01:36:14,760 --> 01:36:18,200
Speaker 2: of a record of a radio station, you could play

1893
01:36:18,960 --> 01:36:21,479
Speaker 2: something because you liked it. You know, there wasn't like

1894
01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:23,680
Speaker 2: a formatted you know, you weren't part of a conglomerate.

1895
01:36:23,720 --> 01:36:27,840
Speaker 2: It wasn't formatted what you needed to play. And he

1896
01:36:28,120 --> 01:36:30,759
Speaker 2: on his own, like we put that long day, the

1897
01:36:30,840 --> 01:36:32,840
Speaker 2: label put money into it, we made a video, it

1898
01:36:32,880 --> 01:36:35,559
Speaker 2: was on MTV. The song just tanked, it didn't do well,

1899
01:36:36,040 --> 01:36:39,880
Speaker 2: and Dave Rossi just started playing Push on his own

1900
01:36:40,600 --> 01:36:44,840
Speaker 2: and in Birmingham it became the number one song. Like

1901
01:36:44,920 --> 01:36:47,439
Speaker 2: we were playing everywhere to like moderate people. And then

1902
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:49,719
Speaker 2: we showed up Birmingham. There's a line around the block

1903
01:36:50,160 --> 01:36:53,519
Speaker 2: to see us play. And Atlantic was we were on

1904
01:36:53,560 --> 01:36:57,000
Speaker 2: the chopping block to begin with, because the day our

1905
01:36:57,040 --> 01:37:00,439
Speaker 2: record came out was the day lava folded into it. Atlantic.

1906
01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:04,120
Speaker 2: It was Jason and Atlantic took Jason Flohm into Atlantic,

1907
01:37:04,680 --> 01:37:06,519
Speaker 2: and they absolved just a couple of bands. It was

1908
01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:10,320
Speaker 2: like Us, Sugar, Ray, Kid Rock and Edwin McCain. I

1909
01:37:10,320 --> 01:37:12,840
Speaker 2: want to say I like the bands that they kept,

1910
01:37:13,560 --> 01:37:16,439
Speaker 2: but we all knew that we were on the chopping block,

1911
01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:19,760
Speaker 2: and so when long they didn't work out, it was like, oh,

1912
01:37:19,960 --> 01:37:21,840
Speaker 2: like we were just waiting for the call any day,

1913
01:37:22,560 --> 01:37:24,400
Speaker 2: and because of Push, they were like, let's let's just

1914
01:37:24,400 --> 01:37:27,200
Speaker 2: give this single a chance. And then everything from that

1915
01:37:27,360 --> 01:37:31,599
Speaker 2: moment on was just exponentially. Every week we just started

1916
01:37:31,640 --> 01:37:33,040
Speaker 2: to get bigger and bigger and bigger.

1917
01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:40,120
Speaker 1: Okay, you had success and it was Matchbox with the

1918
01:37:40,280 --> 01:37:44,040
Speaker 1: number two. Oh and then it was changed to spelled

1919
01:37:44,320 --> 01:37:47,000
Speaker 1: twe n t y. What was that about?

1920
01:37:48,760 --> 01:37:51,519
Speaker 2: Paul? I just liked the way it looked better, Like

1921
01:37:51,560 --> 01:37:55,240
Speaker 2: it was funny that we weren't. I think Michael made

1922
01:37:55,240 --> 01:37:58,679
Speaker 2: more of a deal of it than and like put

1923
01:37:58,680 --> 01:38:00,519
Speaker 2: out like a release and all this stuff like that

1924
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:02,880
Speaker 2: wasn't anything that we did. Michael was just always trying

1925
01:38:02,880 --> 01:38:04,559
Speaker 2: to find a way to get somebody to write about us,

1926
01:38:04,640 --> 01:38:08,160
Speaker 2: you know, and like I remember like seeing that, like

1927
01:38:08,520 --> 01:38:11,200
Speaker 2: I guess in Touch magazine or in Style whatever, they

1928
01:38:11,240 --> 01:38:13,680
Speaker 2: would always have like a loser of the week, and

1929
01:38:13,720 --> 01:38:16,360
Speaker 2: we were the loser of the week because we we

1930
01:38:16,439 --> 01:38:19,160
Speaker 2: made a joke that we thought was clearly a joke

1931
01:38:19,200 --> 01:38:21,559
Speaker 2: that we were we were so tired of being compared

1932
01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:24,320
Speaker 2: to bands like Some forty one and Blink one eighty two,

1933
01:38:24,680 --> 01:38:29,040
Speaker 2: which was so obvious we'd never have in our entire life.

1934
01:38:29,200 --> 01:38:31,599
Speaker 2: And so I guess whoever heard that rote like as

1935
01:38:31,680 --> 01:38:34,000
Speaker 2: if da da da da da, and we're just like, oh,

1936
01:38:34,040 --> 01:38:35,760
Speaker 2: you have no sense of humor at all, you know,

1937
01:38:35,800 --> 01:38:38,920
Speaker 2: you don't get us at all. So yeah, it was

1938
01:38:39,000 --> 01:38:41,799
Speaker 2: that was an aesthetic choice, just purely an aesthetic choice.

1939
01:38:41,840 --> 01:38:43,240
Speaker 2: And we and we still keep it. We just like

1940
01:38:43,240 --> 01:38:45,639
Speaker 2: the way it looks better. We like twenty written out,

1941
01:38:45,640 --> 01:38:47,680
Speaker 2: and we like it in a lowercase bawd. That's just

1942
01:38:48,040 --> 01:38:49,080
Speaker 2: the kind of people we are.

1943
01:38:50,040 --> 01:38:54,160
Speaker 1: Okay, tell me. The story behind Push Push.

1944
01:38:54,120 --> 01:39:00,960
Speaker 2: Was just a song about manipulation, you know, about power

1945
01:39:01,000 --> 01:39:08,800
Speaker 2: in a relationship, about how people can use you know,

1946
01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:10,600
Speaker 2: the fact that they know that someone loves you and

1947
01:39:10,640 --> 01:39:12,799
Speaker 2: they can use that to manipulate you, and how sometimes

1948
01:39:14,720 --> 01:39:16,679
Speaker 2: you get so used to it that you can mistake

1949
01:39:16,720 --> 01:39:21,719
Speaker 2: that for love. Sometimes. It was written about a situation

1950
01:39:21,840 --> 01:39:25,720
Speaker 2: that I was in at the time where I was

1951
01:39:25,800 --> 01:39:28,720
Speaker 2: the I feel like I was, you know, the one.

1952
01:39:28,760 --> 01:39:30,840
Speaker 2: But I also didn't feel like anybody wanted to hear

1953
01:39:30,880 --> 01:39:34,120
Speaker 2: a song with a guy bellowing about being a victim.

1954
01:39:34,240 --> 01:39:36,280
Speaker 2: So it was kind of like written as a third

1955
01:39:36,880 --> 01:39:40,519
Speaker 2: third party, you know, like she said, I don't know

1956
01:39:40,560 --> 01:39:42,080
Speaker 2: if you know it's fact. It was almost like a

1957
01:39:42,080 --> 01:39:44,280
Speaker 2: fly on the wall of me looking at this relationship,

1958
01:39:44,400 --> 01:39:49,160
Speaker 2: you know, And there was a little blowback I think

1959
01:39:49,160 --> 01:39:51,120
Speaker 2: at the time. I mean, it was a pretty aggressive

1960
01:39:52,600 --> 01:39:55,639
Speaker 2: I think in that kind of nineties manufactured angst kind

1961
01:39:55,640 --> 01:39:57,760
Speaker 2: of way that a lot of us were, you know,

1962
01:39:57,840 --> 01:39:59,280
Speaker 2: it was in that kind of like well this is

1963
01:39:59,280 --> 01:40:01,760
Speaker 2: how we expressed ourselves. No no, no, no, no, no no.

1964
01:40:04,680 --> 01:40:07,160
Speaker 2: But it was genuine, you know, like it came from

1965
01:40:07,160 --> 01:40:12,560
Speaker 2: a real place in melody and lyric wise, and it

1966
01:40:12,640 --> 01:40:15,200
Speaker 2: scratched that it's at the time, it's it's a I mean,

1967
01:40:15,240 --> 01:40:18,000
Speaker 2: obviously for so many reasons, it's been a really important song.

1968
01:40:18,040 --> 01:40:22,479
Speaker 2: It's an amazing thing now to see, you know, fourteen

1969
01:40:22,520 --> 01:40:25,040
Speaker 2: and fifteen year olds like kind of light up when

1970
01:40:25,040 --> 01:40:29,080
Speaker 2: we play it at a show, maybe partially because of Barbie.

1971
01:40:29,760 --> 01:40:33,760
Speaker 1: You know, what was the real situation that inspired the song.

1972
01:40:35,800 --> 01:40:40,000
Speaker 2: Uh. I mean I think that you know, if you're

1973
01:40:40,160 --> 01:40:41,760
Speaker 2: if you were me at that time, and like you

1974
01:40:42,960 --> 01:40:48,479
Speaker 2: your prospects were potential, right like, if this whole thing

1975
01:40:48,560 --> 01:40:50,800
Speaker 2: that you're working on works out, within the sky's the limit.

1976
01:40:51,680 --> 01:40:53,760
Speaker 2: But chances are, like everybody likes to tell you it's

1977
01:40:53,800 --> 01:40:56,479
Speaker 2: not going to you know, because it doesn't. You know,

1978
01:40:56,600 --> 01:40:58,240
Speaker 2: it doesn't work out ninety percent of the time, and

1979
01:40:58,360 --> 01:41:01,080
Speaker 2: so you know, if it hadn't worked out, I would

1980
01:41:01,120 --> 01:41:03,439
Speaker 2: be the guy just living on my friends couches. So

1981
01:41:04,160 --> 01:41:07,280
Speaker 2: any relationship that I was in, I didn't have a

1982
01:41:07,360 --> 01:41:09,720
Speaker 2: whole lot of control over it, you know. I was

1983
01:41:09,720 --> 01:41:11,680
Speaker 2: always just kind of being led by my emotions and

1984
01:41:11,800 --> 01:41:13,600
Speaker 2: just lucky if somebody felt like somebody liked me and

1985
01:41:13,640 --> 01:41:15,559
Speaker 2: wanted to spend time with me, and so that would

1986
01:41:15,560 --> 01:41:17,960
Speaker 2: always put me in a position where I could be

1987
01:41:18,080 --> 01:41:22,040
Speaker 2: manipulated very very easily or discarded, you know, because I

1988
01:41:22,080 --> 01:41:25,479
Speaker 2: didn't really I didn't. I wasn't someone that I think

1989
01:41:25,520 --> 01:41:27,200
Speaker 2: that I wasn't so many that people took like a

1990
01:41:27,240 --> 01:41:27,880
Speaker 2: serious person.

1991
01:41:28,560 --> 01:41:33,960
Speaker 1: You know, you wrote the first album very quickly because

1992
01:41:34,040 --> 01:41:37,080
Speaker 1: you discarded the songs with a previous band. How much

1993
01:41:37,200 --> 01:41:41,160
Speaker 1: pressure did you feel on the follow up album.

1994
01:41:43,880 --> 01:41:48,080
Speaker 2: Uh, you know at first none. I mean I think

1995
01:41:48,080 --> 01:41:50,760
Speaker 2: you know the whole idea when you're young and you're

1996
01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:54,240
Speaker 2: doing something like this, it's that native atay, right, it's

1997
01:41:54,280 --> 01:41:56,080
Speaker 2: the what you don't know or you don't realize it

1998
01:41:56,160 --> 01:41:58,760
Speaker 2: actually gives you the strength to kind of go like,

1999
01:41:58,840 --> 01:42:00,800
Speaker 2: of course I'm gonna make it. You got to have

2000
01:42:01,320 --> 01:42:03,599
Speaker 2: you have to have a little bit of narcissism because

2001
01:42:03,640 --> 01:42:06,120
Speaker 2: you have to believe that other people should listen to

2002
01:42:06,160 --> 01:42:08,280
Speaker 2: what it is you have to say. And you have

2003
01:42:08,439 --> 01:42:11,360
Speaker 2: to like suspend disbelief to some degree because you have

2004
01:42:11,479 --> 01:42:13,920
Speaker 2: to believe against all odds that you're you're going to

2005
01:42:13,960 --> 01:42:15,000
Speaker 2: be the one of the ones that make it. Of

2006
01:42:15,080 --> 01:42:20,439
Speaker 2: course you are. When the first record, though, did so well,

2007
01:42:21,520 --> 01:42:23,439
Speaker 2: it worked the opposite way because when you get that

2008
01:42:23,560 --> 01:42:26,160
Speaker 2: kind of success right off the bat, everybody is like, well,

2009
01:42:26,520 --> 01:42:28,400
Speaker 2: that's not going to happen, and it doesn't. I mean,

2010
01:42:28,520 --> 01:42:30,160
Speaker 2: they're right, you're not going to sell twenty million records

2011
01:42:30,200 --> 01:42:33,240
Speaker 2: again and fifteen million records again. But it's pretty much

2012
01:42:33,240 --> 01:42:35,439
Speaker 2: a guarantee that oh that's a you know, if not

2013
01:42:35,560 --> 01:42:38,519
Speaker 2: a one hit wonder, that's a one record you know

2014
01:42:38,920 --> 01:42:41,479
Speaker 2: moment and that was that time in the nineties. There's

2015
01:42:41,520 --> 01:42:43,559
Speaker 2: a lot of bands selling ten million records. Back then,

2016
01:42:43,840 --> 01:42:46,040
Speaker 2: the presidents of the United States of America just on

2017
01:42:46,240 --> 01:42:50,960
Speaker 2: Lump and Peaches sold ten million records, you know. And

2018
01:42:51,000 --> 01:42:52,800
Speaker 2: then so everybody would like to let you know, it's

2019
01:42:52,800 --> 01:42:54,960
Speaker 2: probably not going to happen. So then you're like, oh, well, shit,

2020
01:42:55,040 --> 01:42:58,280
Speaker 2: maybe it's not gonna happen. I knew that I was

2021
01:42:58,320 --> 01:43:00,519
Speaker 2: writing some really good stuff. I had already written Bent.

2022
01:43:01,120 --> 01:43:02,880
Speaker 2: I knew that Bent, you know it was a good song.

2023
01:43:04,200 --> 01:43:05,880
Speaker 2: I knew that if You're Gone was a good I

2024
01:43:05,960 --> 01:43:10,479
Speaker 2: knew that these songs were solid. I also knew that

2025
01:43:10,520 --> 01:43:17,760
Speaker 2: that didn't necessarily matter. I think that magic moment of

2026
01:43:17,880 --> 01:43:23,800
Speaker 2: smooth right in the middle was a huge thing that

2027
01:43:24,040 --> 01:43:25,960
Speaker 2: kind of kept people's eyes on, well, let's give it

2028
01:43:26,000 --> 01:43:29,240
Speaker 2: a chance and see what happens. And then so then

2029
01:43:29,400 --> 01:43:32,479
Speaker 2: we're at the very beginning of the early odds. We

2030
01:43:32,560 --> 01:43:36,240
Speaker 2: put out our first single on the second record, and

2031
01:43:36,360 --> 01:43:39,160
Speaker 2: it's our first number one hit, like our first actual

2032
01:43:39,280 --> 01:43:45,920
Speaker 2: number one song, and that felt good. And then that

2033
01:43:46,240 --> 01:43:50,800
Speaker 2: record did amazingly well for especially for that that being

2034
01:43:50,840 --> 01:43:55,840
Speaker 2: in that situation as sophomore record and going, ah, you know,

2035
01:43:56,360 --> 01:44:00,960
Speaker 2: four singles deep in there. That was the moment where

2036
01:44:00,960 --> 01:44:04,240
Speaker 2: I kind of felt like we really started to build

2037
01:44:04,280 --> 01:44:07,040
Speaker 2: a career. You know, like if you on your first

2038
01:44:07,080 --> 01:44:09,840
Speaker 2: you have some success on your first record. I mean,

2039
01:44:09,880 --> 01:44:13,120
Speaker 2: that's that's a journey, that's an adventure, and it buys

2040
01:44:13,200 --> 01:44:16,920
Speaker 2: you a ticket to get in to see how you

2041
01:44:17,000 --> 01:44:19,280
Speaker 2: could if you can take the ride, and then you

2042
01:44:19,400 --> 01:44:24,840
Speaker 2: get on the ride, and then you know, we didn't

2043
01:44:24,840 --> 01:44:26,880
Speaker 2: throw up. You know, we held it together, We mastered

2044
01:44:26,920 --> 01:44:28,960
Speaker 2: the ride, and by the time we got into our

2045
01:44:29,040 --> 01:44:32,040
Speaker 2: third record, we were the band that we wanted to be.

2046
01:44:33,000 --> 01:44:35,160
Speaker 2: Like that third record with bride lights and unwell and

2047
01:44:36,640 --> 01:44:39,720
Speaker 2: sounds like so sad, so like that was like all

2048
01:44:39,880 --> 01:44:43,400
Speaker 2: we felt like, this is this really feels like we've

2049
01:44:43,680 --> 01:44:46,479
Speaker 2: kind of settled into the adult versions of the band

2050
01:44:46,520 --> 01:44:49,360
Speaker 2: that we want to be and we were allowed that.

2051
01:44:49,479 --> 01:44:51,120
Speaker 2: We were allowed allowed to do that, by the way,

2052
01:44:51,160 --> 01:44:53,679
Speaker 2: which is you know, it doesn't you're not always lucky

2053
01:44:53,760 --> 01:44:55,839
Speaker 2: enough to you know, a lot of bands find their stride,

2054
01:44:56,439 --> 01:44:58,880
Speaker 2: you know, three four records in, but they don't get

2055
01:44:58,920 --> 01:45:02,040
Speaker 2: that opportunity to now as much as they used to then.

2056
01:45:02,120 --> 01:45:05,320
Speaker 2: So we're really really fortunate because even then, I mean

2057
01:45:05,720 --> 01:45:09,200
Speaker 2: then wasn't now, But without that success that would have happened,

2058
01:45:09,240 --> 01:45:11,080
Speaker 2: we would have been dropped probably what you know, if

2059
01:45:11,080 --> 01:45:12,760
Speaker 2: Push had never happened, we would have been dropped and

2060
01:45:12,840 --> 01:45:15,040
Speaker 2: never really gotten to figure out what our true potential was.

2061
01:45:15,800 --> 01:45:20,479
Speaker 1: Now, eventually the landscape changes completely, but the hits are

2062
01:45:20,640 --> 01:45:23,960
Speaker 1: not as many at number? How does that feel? How

2063
01:45:24,000 --> 01:45:27,559
Speaker 1: do you cope with that? Emotionally fine?

2064
01:45:27,680 --> 01:45:31,080
Speaker 2: I mean, we're it's it doesn't take a genius to realize,

2065
01:45:31,120 --> 01:45:35,360
Speaker 2: like there's a moment where we're still doing well. Third record,

2066
01:45:36,120 --> 01:45:38,400
Speaker 2: we're still doing well, and we don't sound like everything

2067
01:45:38,439 --> 01:45:40,760
Speaker 2: else that's on the radio around us. Like if you

2068
01:45:40,800 --> 01:45:43,680
Speaker 2: look at a screenshot, it's like Nelly, you know, it's

2069
01:45:43,680 --> 01:45:46,120
Speaker 2: a bunch of like Southern rabbits and then unwell, as

2070
01:45:46,200 --> 01:45:48,120
Speaker 2: you know, it's kind of in there. But you don't

2071
01:45:48,160 --> 01:45:51,240
Speaker 2: have to be a genius to to listen to music

2072
01:45:51,280 --> 01:45:52,960
Speaker 2: and go like, oh, well, this isn't what we're doing,

2073
01:45:53,800 --> 01:45:58,960
Speaker 2: you know, like this this is not this aesthetic like

2074
01:45:59,040 --> 01:46:01,479
Speaker 2: we give part of it, you know, having talent, having

2075
01:46:01,520 --> 01:46:03,920
Speaker 2: good songs has to be it. But also for some

2076
01:46:04,080 --> 01:46:07,320
Speaker 2: sort of success, your aesthetic has to fit the aesthetic

2077
01:46:07,560 --> 01:46:10,320
Speaker 2: of what kind of what's happening right then in the zeitgeist,

2078
01:46:10,320 --> 01:46:11,880
Speaker 2: and that was something that happened for us at that

2079
01:46:12,000 --> 01:46:17,519
Speaker 2: time when it went over like we we didn't. Also,

2080
01:46:17,600 --> 01:46:19,599
Speaker 2: we didn't love everything those popular, so we were kind

2081
01:46:19,600 --> 01:46:20,960
Speaker 2: of glad that we didn't sound like that, and we

2082
01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:23,960
Speaker 2: weren't going to go chasing that sound. And so I

2083
01:46:24,000 --> 01:46:25,400
Speaker 2: think one of the things that we did early on

2084
01:46:25,640 --> 01:46:30,240
Speaker 2: was we we were very very conscious of trying not

2085
01:46:30,320 --> 01:46:32,280
Speaker 2: to sound anything like what was happening on the radio,

2086
01:46:32,360 --> 01:46:36,919
Speaker 2: but also not sound like our previous records, and realized

2087
01:46:36,960 --> 01:46:40,360
Speaker 2: that at this point we'd love it if you know,

2088
01:46:40,479 --> 01:46:42,360
Speaker 2: if you can if you have some success on the radio.

2089
01:46:43,800 --> 01:46:48,000
Speaker 2: But we had massed a group of people who had

2090
01:46:48,000 --> 01:46:49,599
Speaker 2: an interest in what it is. We had to say,

2091
01:46:50,640 --> 01:46:54,439
Speaker 2: you know, let's just let's tend to that garden all

2092
01:46:54,479 --> 01:46:56,479
Speaker 2: the time. Let's make sure that we keep these people

2093
01:46:56,520 --> 01:46:59,160
Speaker 2: to good with us. And over the years, those people

2094
01:46:59,200 --> 01:47:01,519
Speaker 2: have brought their kids, and their kids are bringing their kids.

2095
01:47:02,160 --> 01:47:07,519
Speaker 2: And I mean when we were really, really young, if

2096
01:47:07,560 --> 01:47:09,360
Speaker 2: you would have told us at the very very beginning,

2097
01:47:09,479 --> 01:47:12,519
Speaker 2: when we were super hungry, that you know, eventually you're

2098
01:47:12,520 --> 01:47:13,800
Speaker 2: going to have a career, but it's going to come

2099
01:47:13,840 --> 01:47:17,160
Speaker 2: along with a sense of nostalgia. We would have thought

2100
01:47:17,200 --> 01:47:19,439
Speaker 2: that was sad, and then we realized that, like, you know,

2101
01:47:19,520 --> 01:47:22,519
Speaker 2: that's that is ninety percent of the favorite music and

2102
01:47:22,600 --> 01:47:24,760
Speaker 2: bands that we've grown up with that have a career

2103
01:47:24,800 --> 01:47:26,360
Speaker 2: to this day. There you know, so many bands out there,

2104
01:47:26,400 --> 01:47:28,360
Speaker 2: there are still they go out on tour, they're still

2105
01:47:28,360 --> 01:47:30,960
Speaker 2: selling ten thousand seats, They're still enjoying a really good life.

2106
01:47:31,000 --> 01:47:32,439
Speaker 2: Their songs are being place to put you know what

2107
01:47:32,479 --> 01:47:36,760
Speaker 2: I mean. They're just not a part of this immediate

2108
01:47:36,840 --> 01:47:42,040
Speaker 2: conversation anymore. And almost nobody, I mean you have. I

2109
01:47:42,120 --> 01:47:45,599
Speaker 2: call them the one percent, you know, these beyonces, these

2110
01:47:45,640 --> 01:47:53,000
Speaker 2: tailors that are usually successful, and every time they do something,

2111
01:47:53,040 --> 01:47:58,240
Speaker 2: they maintain a part of that conversation, right, And that

2112
01:47:58,880 --> 01:48:02,080
Speaker 2: seems tiring. It seems like it takes an entire village

2113
01:48:02,160 --> 01:48:05,240
Speaker 2: to make that happen, you know, and it certainly doesn't

2114
01:48:05,240 --> 01:48:08,120
Speaker 2: sound like something that happens by doing the thing that

2115
01:48:08,200 --> 01:48:10,960
Speaker 2: I love, which is sitting in my studio writing and

2116
01:48:11,040 --> 01:48:13,000
Speaker 2: writing until I get a song that really excites me,

2117
01:48:13,439 --> 01:48:16,000
Speaker 2: following that thread, making that into a record like that,

2118
01:48:16,120 --> 01:48:17,720
Speaker 2: to me is the thing that I love about it.

2119
01:48:18,439 --> 01:48:20,320
Speaker 2: And that's how I wound up getting to where I

2120
01:48:20,439 --> 01:48:24,320
Speaker 2: got to. It's just that no matter what I do, like,

2121
01:48:24,400 --> 01:48:27,839
Speaker 2: I'm not going to be that part of that conversation anymore.

2122
01:48:28,439 --> 01:48:31,160
Speaker 2: And that's okay. In fact, I don't even know what

2123
01:48:31,200 --> 01:48:35,479
Speaker 2: it would be like, because that conversation now is happening

2124
01:48:35,520 --> 01:48:38,320
Speaker 2: on such a broader, wider level, Like you know, I

2125
01:48:39,160 --> 01:48:42,559
Speaker 2: think about it like how we used to. We used

2126
01:48:42,560 --> 01:48:44,200
Speaker 2: to have this point of entrigue when you put out

2127
01:48:44,240 --> 01:48:46,439
Speaker 2: a record of music that was kind of like a funnel,

2128
01:48:46,880 --> 01:48:48,640
Speaker 2: and you and your label and your team would get

2129
01:48:48,640 --> 01:48:50,880
Speaker 2: together and you'd be like, well, we're gonna release this

2130
01:48:51,000 --> 01:48:53,720
Speaker 2: song at this time on this place, and then we're

2131
01:48:53,760 --> 01:48:56,679
Speaker 2: gonna put it out everywhere, and you have control over

2132
01:48:56,800 --> 01:48:59,720
Speaker 2: every little aspect, you know. And it was so even

2133
01:48:59,720 --> 01:49:02,080
Speaker 2: when you you were like really really famous, you were

2134
01:49:02,120 --> 01:49:03,920
Speaker 2: in a smaller playing field. Like what you and I

2135
01:49:03,960 --> 01:49:06,040
Speaker 2: talked about earlier in this conversation was a much smaller

2136
01:49:06,080 --> 01:49:10,240
Speaker 2: playing field that was out there. Now that that funnel

2137
01:49:10,320 --> 01:49:12,960
Speaker 2: is a callnder and you put something in it and

2138
01:49:13,080 --> 01:49:15,200
Speaker 2: it just goes where it goes and it comes in

2139
01:49:15,439 --> 01:49:19,280
Speaker 2: and you don't have really I don't know what. I

2140
01:49:19,320 --> 01:49:22,479
Speaker 2: don't know what it's like to be famous. I know,

2141
01:49:22,560 --> 01:49:24,640
Speaker 2: what it's like to have some famous music. I know

2142
01:49:24,720 --> 01:49:27,439
Speaker 2: what it's like to be famous in the room that

2143
01:49:27,560 --> 01:49:30,240
Speaker 2: I rented, you know, I know what it's famous to

2144
01:49:30,280 --> 01:49:32,160
Speaker 2: be like to be famous in front of that twenty

2145
01:49:32,240 --> 01:49:35,519
Speaker 2: thousand people that came to see me do this thing.

2146
01:49:36,479 --> 01:49:39,000
Speaker 2: But I don't know what it's like to be famous

2147
01:49:39,680 --> 01:49:43,639
Speaker 2: in that sense where like my life is scrutinized this whole,

2148
01:49:43,760 --> 01:49:47,160
Speaker 2: you know, like it's your brand. Somebody the other day

2149
01:49:47,280 --> 01:49:49,200
Speaker 2: was like, why don't you have sneakers with the name

2150
01:49:49,280 --> 01:49:52,720
Speaker 2: on because I'm not sneaker famous, motherfucker. Like that's not

2151
01:49:52,840 --> 01:49:55,000
Speaker 2: something you just do, you know, you just side and

2152
01:49:55,080 --> 01:49:56,599
Speaker 2: I'm mak a sneakers, I'm a name on them.

2153
01:49:57,960 --> 01:50:01,160
Speaker 1: Let's switch gears. It's the twenty fiftheen verse we of Smooth.

2154
01:50:01,320 --> 01:50:05,519
Speaker 1: According to Billboard, it's the third most played song in history,

2155
01:50:05,640 --> 01:50:09,000
Speaker 1: after Blinding Lights by the Weekend and The Twists by

2156
01:50:09,400 --> 01:50:12,000
Speaker 1: Chubby Checker. He started to tell the story, tell the

2157
01:50:12,080 --> 01:50:14,600
Speaker 1: story now, how smooth came to.

2158
01:50:14,680 --> 01:50:18,920
Speaker 2: Be well, first of a fucking good for the Weekend, right, Like,

2159
01:50:19,560 --> 01:50:24,439
Speaker 2: just jump right up there pretty damn quick. I you know,

2160
01:50:24,520 --> 01:50:26,800
Speaker 2: originally I was just supposed to write smooth. I wasn't

2161
01:50:26,800 --> 01:50:28,439
Speaker 2: going to be a singer on it. I just sang

2162
01:50:28,520 --> 01:50:32,560
Speaker 2: on the demo and I was even in Carla in

2163
01:50:32,600 --> 01:50:39,240
Speaker 2: Clive's office having the conversations about who was going to

2164
01:50:40,439 --> 01:50:43,519
Speaker 2: sing it. You know, we flirted around. I flirted around

2165
01:50:43,520 --> 01:50:47,040
Speaker 2: George Michael. I really wanted George to do it. I

2166
01:50:47,120 --> 01:50:51,040
Speaker 2: think bon Jovi's name came up at some point and

2167
01:50:51,160 --> 01:50:53,040
Speaker 2: it was Carlos, who had no idea who I was,

2168
01:50:53,120 --> 01:50:54,880
Speaker 2: but liked my voice on the demo. That was like, well,

2169
01:50:54,960 --> 01:50:57,960
Speaker 2: let's does he sing? And they're like, yeah, he's in

2170
01:50:58,000 --> 01:51:00,160
Speaker 2: a band, you know, and it call us a like

2171
01:51:00,400 --> 01:51:02,559
Speaker 2: He's like, I I believe him, Let's just have him

2172
01:51:02,600 --> 01:51:07,599
Speaker 2: do it. And then that was kind of it. I Mean,

2173
01:51:07,640 --> 01:51:11,240
Speaker 2: the funniest part of that whole thing is the twenty

2174
01:51:12,280 --> 01:51:16,719
Speaker 2: five years later now, you know, I'll still have nights

2175
01:51:17,120 --> 01:51:20,200
Speaker 2: till midnight where my wife's laughing because me and Carlos

2176
01:51:20,280 --> 01:51:23,160
Speaker 2: are still up texting each other, you know, stupid videos

2177
01:51:23,240 --> 01:51:27,439
Speaker 2: and songs and you know, fucking strange emojis and making

2178
01:51:27,600 --> 01:51:30,280
Speaker 2: plans to to do things that you know, records that

2179
01:51:30,320 --> 01:51:33,000
Speaker 2: were never gonna make. He's just become like one of

2180
01:51:33,080 --> 01:51:36,400
Speaker 2: my like one of my brothers. And in the relationship

2181
01:51:36,439 --> 01:51:38,640
Speaker 2: that I've wound up with with Clive Davis, who is

2182
01:51:38,680 --> 01:51:42,640
Speaker 2: my neighbor. But you know, Clive is like, if I

2183
01:51:42,720 --> 01:51:44,400
Speaker 2: make a new record, I've never I've never been on

2184
01:51:44,520 --> 01:51:47,240
Speaker 2: his label, never had anything to do with him, but

2185
01:51:47,360 --> 01:51:51,639
Speaker 2: he had me help honor him at Carnegie Hall about

2186
01:51:51,640 --> 01:51:54,720
Speaker 2: a month ago. If I make a new record, I

2187
01:51:54,800 --> 01:51:56,400
Speaker 2: go to client's house or his office and we sit

2188
01:51:56,479 --> 01:51:58,840
Speaker 2: and we listen to the record, you know, together. Like

2189
01:51:58,920 --> 01:52:01,439
Speaker 2: He's just been a real great mentor that I met

2190
01:52:01,960 --> 01:52:06,040
Speaker 2: at a time where I was much more porous than

2191
01:52:06,080 --> 01:52:08,200
Speaker 2: I probably am now and much more spongy, and so

2192
01:52:09,000 --> 01:52:11,320
Speaker 2: I you know, it was a really good time to

2193
01:52:11,479 --> 01:52:15,360
Speaker 2: meet those people in my life because I learned from

2194
01:52:15,479 --> 01:52:18,639
Speaker 2: Carlos early on the difference between being a famous musician

2195
01:52:18,760 --> 01:52:22,439
Speaker 2: and being a celebrity, and that being a famous musician

2196
01:52:22,880 --> 01:52:25,120
Speaker 2: is what you've always wanted. I want people to hear

2197
01:52:25,160 --> 01:52:26,840
Speaker 2: my music. I want more people to hear it. I want,

2198
01:52:26,920 --> 01:52:29,200
Speaker 2: you know, I want my song to be part of

2199
01:52:29,240 --> 01:52:31,439
Speaker 2: people's lives, and the way that my favorite music is

2200
01:52:31,439 --> 01:52:33,640
Speaker 2: a part of mine. And then the rest of it

2201
01:52:33,760 --> 01:52:36,679
Speaker 2: is all bullshit, like none of it really matters except

2202
01:52:36,760 --> 01:52:37,120
Speaker 2: for that.

2203
01:52:38,920 --> 01:52:43,320
Speaker 1: Okay, the band Matchbox twenty made a number of records.

2204
01:52:43,760 --> 01:52:47,479
Speaker 1: You've made solo records, You've gone on tour solo, You've

2205
01:52:47,520 --> 01:52:51,800
Speaker 1: gone with Matchbox twenty live. What does the future hold?

2206
01:52:53,479 --> 01:52:55,040
Speaker 2: I mean, right now I can only see right in

2207
01:52:55,080 --> 01:52:58,160
Speaker 2: front of my face. So next year is the twentieth

2208
01:52:58,200 --> 01:53:03,160
Speaker 2: anniversary of my first solo record, So I am just finishing,

2209
01:53:04,600 --> 01:53:08,080
Speaker 2: just finishing the writing, and we're deep into the recording

2210
01:53:08,200 --> 01:53:12,240
Speaker 2: of a new solo record. And then the very next

2211
01:53:12,360 --> 01:53:16,160
Speaker 2: year is the thirtieth anniversary of the first Matchbox twenty record,

2212
01:53:17,120 --> 01:53:20,840
Speaker 2: and we're trying to figure out what that means for us.

2213
01:53:21,520 --> 01:53:23,599
Speaker 2: We want to do something. We just toured last summer,

2214
01:53:24,160 --> 01:53:26,160
Speaker 2: which because I think because we hadn't been out in

2215
01:53:26,280 --> 01:53:29,080
Speaker 2: so many years, we hadn't been out since like twenty seventeen.

2216
01:53:29,160 --> 01:53:31,840
Speaker 2: I think it was one of our most successful tours

2217
01:53:31,840 --> 01:53:36,600
Speaker 2: in our entire career since the very very beginning. So

2218
01:53:36,760 --> 01:53:39,920
Speaker 2: the idea of like but we also made a record

2219
01:53:39,960 --> 01:53:42,200
Speaker 2: which we were planning on doing, but then COVID happened

2220
01:53:42,240 --> 01:53:45,439
Speaker 2: and we canceled a summer and we're like, well, if

2221
01:53:45,479 --> 01:53:47,679
Speaker 2: we're not going to tour, but we know that we're available,

2222
01:53:47,720 --> 01:53:50,200
Speaker 2: let's make a record. And we made a record that

2223
01:53:50,240 --> 01:53:53,400
Speaker 2: we're unbelievably proud of. But we also realized that we

2224
01:53:53,600 --> 01:53:56,800
Speaker 2: fucking hate making records together. Like it is just like

2225
01:53:56,880 --> 01:54:00,040
Speaker 2: a one giant argument. Like we as a band and

2226
01:54:00,760 --> 01:54:04,559
Speaker 2: get along unbelievable. Like if you come out you see

2227
01:54:04,640 --> 01:54:06,800
Speaker 2: us at a show, you would think that we all

2228
01:54:07,040 --> 01:54:08,720
Speaker 2: just became best friends, you know what I mean, Like

2229
01:54:08,800 --> 01:54:11,600
Speaker 2: we are this family. We're joking all the time. I

2230
01:54:11,600 --> 01:54:15,280
Speaker 2: don't think we've ever had a personal argument amongst us. Ever,

2231
01:54:16,080 --> 01:54:19,479
Speaker 2: it's always about creative direction. It's always about this will

2232
01:54:19,880 --> 01:54:21,960
Speaker 2: I see something this way and I see it this way?

2233
01:54:22,000 --> 01:54:25,639
Speaker 2: And you know, Paul always jokes that a Matchbox twenty

2234
01:54:25,720 --> 01:54:27,960
Speaker 2: song is the result of an argument between four people.

2235
01:54:28,720 --> 01:54:31,599
Speaker 2: And so I don't know, as we get older, that's

2236
01:54:31,640 --> 01:54:33,160
Speaker 2: something that we I mean, I'm not saying we wouldn't

2237
01:54:33,160 --> 01:54:36,360
Speaker 2: never record music, but we're not making an entire record again.

2238
01:54:37,000 --> 01:54:38,720
Speaker 2: Doesn't seem in the cards for us because we don't

2239
01:54:38,840 --> 01:54:41,880
Speaker 2: enjoy it. And frankly, we've worked hard enough in a

2240
01:54:41,960 --> 01:54:43,720
Speaker 2: teeth enough now where we don't have to do something

2241
01:54:43,720 --> 01:54:48,160
Speaker 2: if we don't enjoy it. But we enjoy playing, So

2242
01:54:48,360 --> 01:54:51,160
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe we'll maybe, you know, the landscape is different.

2243
01:54:51,200 --> 01:54:53,240
Speaker 2: Maybe for Matchbox that means we've put out a song

2244
01:54:54,120 --> 01:54:56,720
Speaker 2: and we just go out and tour maybe something special,

2245
01:54:56,760 --> 01:55:00,640
Speaker 2: maybe your residency at a casino, you know, maybe a

2246
01:55:00,760 --> 01:55:03,120
Speaker 2: specialty tour where it's just like one big show in

2247
01:55:03,200 --> 01:55:06,880
Speaker 2: big cities, you know, event shows. Like I don't know

2248
01:55:06,920 --> 01:55:09,280
Speaker 2: what that means yet, but right now I know that

2249
01:55:10,000 --> 01:55:11,560
Speaker 2: I just got to get this fucking record done by

2250
01:55:11,560 --> 01:55:12,920
Speaker 2: the end of this year. For my solo that's like,

2251
01:55:13,360 --> 01:55:14,920
Speaker 2: you know, like at the end of the day, you're

2252
01:55:14,960 --> 01:55:17,320
Speaker 2: still jobbing, you know, like you're still like, Okay, I've

2253
01:55:17,360 --> 01:55:19,880
Speaker 2: got this. I've given myself a deadline, and now I'm

2254
01:55:19,920 --> 01:55:22,720
Speaker 2: going to make that deadline happen because now Atlantic Records

2255
01:55:22,800 --> 01:55:25,560
Speaker 2: is going I want that record, and I'm lucky to

2256
01:55:25,720 --> 01:55:27,400
Speaker 2: you know, still have a label that wants that record.

2257
01:55:27,480 --> 01:55:33,120
Speaker 1: So okay, one final thing, it is almost impossible to

2258
01:55:33,240 --> 01:55:39,080
Speaker 1: make it. Luck definitely plays a factor. Hard work pays

2259
01:55:39,120 --> 01:55:42,720
Speaker 1: a factor, plays a factor with me. But in order

2260
01:55:42,920 --> 01:55:45,520
Speaker 1: to make it, you need to need it. You have

2261
01:55:45,760 --> 01:55:49,200
Speaker 1: to have this inner drive. To what degree is that

2262
01:55:49,320 --> 01:55:50,720
Speaker 1: a characteristic of yours?

2263
01:55:53,280 --> 01:55:59,120
Speaker 2: I think because like making it has changed over the years,

2264
01:55:59,240 --> 01:56:01,160
Speaker 2: you know, like we just talked about but I think

2265
01:56:03,760 --> 01:56:07,760
Speaker 2: I want to still feel to myself like I'm writing

2266
01:56:08,160 --> 01:56:10,800
Speaker 2: the best work that I can write right now. You know,

2267
01:56:11,400 --> 01:56:13,640
Speaker 2: like everything that I've done up until now, I can

2268
01:56:13,720 --> 01:56:15,320
Speaker 2: look back on it now and go like, oh, I

2269
01:56:15,360 --> 01:56:16,760
Speaker 2: would have changed this or would have done this. But

2270
01:56:16,840 --> 01:56:19,040
Speaker 2: I know in my heart that each one of those

2271
01:56:19,280 --> 01:56:21,880
Speaker 2: groups of songs I made the best record I could.

2272
01:56:21,880 --> 01:56:23,720
Speaker 2: I wrote the best songs that I could at that time.

2273
01:56:24,600 --> 01:56:26,920
Speaker 2: That's really my driving force now is I want to

2274
01:56:28,000 --> 01:56:29,920
Speaker 2: I want to write songs. I would love for people

2275
01:56:29,960 --> 01:56:31,400
Speaker 2: to connect with them, you know. I mean I love

2276
01:56:31,440 --> 01:56:33,640
Speaker 2: when I write a song and it's still something that

2277
01:56:33,720 --> 01:56:35,760
Speaker 2: somebody uses that they're their wedding or it's still something

2278
01:56:35,800 --> 01:56:40,840
Speaker 2: you know. But that's really the only success now because

2279
01:56:40,880 --> 01:56:43,720
Speaker 2: you never really know for the rest of our lives

2280
01:56:43,840 --> 01:56:46,880
Speaker 2: and my life, I can we can go out and

2281
01:56:47,040 --> 01:56:49,480
Speaker 2: play to shows. We can get people that are going

2282
01:56:49,560 --> 01:56:53,800
Speaker 2: to come see us play. Most of my favorite artists,

2283
01:56:53,800 --> 01:56:56,440
Speaker 2: you know, like like sometimes you're playing it, you know,

2284
01:56:56,520 --> 01:56:59,440
Speaker 2: you're playing like this casino and you're like are we casinos?

2285
01:56:59,440 --> 01:57:02,040
Speaker 2: And you look up like, oh, well, fuck, Elvis Costello

2286
01:57:02,120 --> 01:57:04,960
Speaker 2: was here last week. Fucking love Alice Costello and you

2287
01:57:05,000 --> 01:57:06,720
Speaker 2: know John legend was just here last you know, like,

2288
01:57:07,240 --> 01:57:10,320
Speaker 2: all right, you know this is I'm not the I

2289
01:57:10,400 --> 01:57:14,120
Speaker 2: think the the litmus test isn't isn't that anymore? Now?

2290
01:57:14,160 --> 01:57:16,480
Speaker 2: It's just like I just want to do good work.

2291
01:57:16,520 --> 01:57:17,840
Speaker 2: I just want to write, you know, I just want

2292
01:57:17,880 --> 01:57:20,720
Speaker 2: to write good songs, and I want to do well

2293
01:57:20,840 --> 01:57:23,480
Speaker 2: enough that I keep getting to do that. Like I

2294
01:57:23,520 --> 01:57:25,280
Speaker 2: guess one day if like I don't have a label,

2295
01:57:27,440 --> 01:57:31,280
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like, I'll tell you this, if for

2296
01:57:31,480 --> 01:57:37,160
Speaker 2: some reason, music stops being a viable career option for me,

2297
01:57:38,360 --> 01:57:41,760
Speaker 2: you will never see me again. I won't be on

2298
01:57:41,920 --> 01:57:44,560
Speaker 2: Dancing with the Stars, I won't be on you know,

2299
01:57:44,800 --> 01:57:49,520
Speaker 2: celebrity houseboat or fucking whatever. You know, like, I will

2300
01:57:49,640 --> 01:57:52,920
Speaker 2: not find another means for people to know who I am.

2301
01:57:53,040 --> 01:57:56,840
Speaker 2: If people stop knowing who I am because I make music, well,

2302
01:57:56,880 --> 01:57:59,120
Speaker 2: then lucky for them, they will never see me again.

2303
01:57:59,640 --> 01:58:03,920
Speaker 2: I will just be I'll just be quietly rich somewhere else.

2304
01:58:04,720 --> 01:58:08,919
Speaker 1: Okay, but that's that's now. Go back to the beginning.

2305
01:58:09,240 --> 01:58:12,040
Speaker 1: You're a high school drop out, You're.

2306
01:58:11,920 --> 01:58:15,360
Speaker 2: Playing in it was everything. If I don't make it,

2307
01:58:15,920 --> 01:58:21,320
Speaker 2: I don't survive like it was. And it's still it's

2308
01:58:21,400 --> 01:58:23,440
Speaker 2: easy for me on this side of the fence to

2309
01:58:23,520 --> 01:58:27,440
Speaker 2: tell somebody, you know, listen, if you're tenacious, dreams are

2310
01:58:27,480 --> 01:58:29,880
Speaker 2: gonna happen. You just have to stick with it. But

2311
01:58:30,000 --> 01:58:34,200
Speaker 2: that's not always true. And the fact is, without the

2312
01:58:34,360 --> 01:58:37,400
Speaker 2: luck factor, Like I believe that I write good songs,

2313
01:58:37,920 --> 01:58:39,760
Speaker 2: and I believe that I worked my ass off, and

2314
01:58:39,840 --> 01:58:42,520
Speaker 2: I believe that Matchbox twenty is, in my opinion, one

2315
01:58:42,520 --> 01:58:45,440
Speaker 2: of the greatest pop rock bands of all time, especially

2316
01:58:45,480 --> 01:58:48,560
Speaker 2: if you come see us live. But there's a lot

2317
01:58:48,600 --> 01:58:50,480
Speaker 2: of great fucking bands, and there's a lot of great songs,

2318
01:58:50,480 --> 01:58:52,280
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of people that with all of

2319
01:58:52,360 --> 01:58:55,240
Speaker 2: those things, they just didn't have that one lucky component,

2320
01:58:55,360 --> 01:59:00,720
Speaker 2: you know. And so you're still like, I could be

2321
01:59:00,880 --> 01:59:03,880
Speaker 2: fifty two years old having a conversation about my you know,

2322
01:59:04,680 --> 01:59:07,240
Speaker 2: my dad band that I'm in while I'm sleeping on

2323
01:59:07,280 --> 01:59:09,560
Speaker 2: my friend's couch, or you know, taking time for my

2324
01:59:09,640 --> 01:59:12,240
Speaker 2: dentistry practice or whatever, only I didn't even give. I

2325
01:59:12,280 --> 01:59:14,480
Speaker 2: didn't have a fallback, man, I like, you know, I

2326
01:59:14,520 --> 01:59:16,680
Speaker 2: didn't even have the dentistry practice to fall back on.

2327
01:59:16,760 --> 01:59:19,760
Speaker 2: I would have been working at my cousin's cleaners, you know,

2328
01:59:19,840 --> 01:59:21,480
Speaker 2: while I was still trying to get my band to

2329
01:59:21,560 --> 01:59:23,640
Speaker 2: work out. And it's never lost on me that it's

2330
01:59:23,640 --> 01:59:26,480
Speaker 2: a very fine line and that luck is that line

2331
01:59:26,520 --> 01:59:31,880
Speaker 2: between that happening. But the drive is just that you

2332
01:59:32,040 --> 01:59:35,280
Speaker 2: let everything else go, You let college go, you let

2333
01:59:35,400 --> 01:59:38,000
Speaker 2: getting into the ground floor of a career go. All

2334
01:59:38,080 --> 01:59:40,600
Speaker 2: of these other options are kind of going by, and

2335
01:59:40,720 --> 01:59:43,080
Speaker 2: you're like, no, I'm waiting on this. I'm waiting. It's

2336
01:59:43,160 --> 01:59:46,840
Speaker 2: kind of like you're just you're sitting at the at

2337
01:59:46,880 --> 01:59:49,040
Speaker 2: the bus stop and waiting for your friend to pick

2338
01:59:49,080 --> 01:59:51,640
Speaker 2: you up, and all of these buses come by and

2339
01:59:51,680 --> 01:59:53,400
Speaker 2: you're just like, no, I'm good, he'll come. He'll come,

2340
01:59:54,120 --> 01:59:55,800
Speaker 2: and you're just like, oh fuck, if he doesn't come home,

2341
01:59:55,840 --> 01:59:58,520
Speaker 2: I'm stranded, you know. And then for us, we just

2342
01:59:58,600 --> 02:00:01,000
Speaker 2: got lucky and he showed up and picked us up,

2343
02:00:01,080 --> 02:00:03,160
Speaker 2: and you know, we went on the ride.

2344
02:00:04,280 --> 02:00:08,120
Speaker 1: Needless to say, your dream came true. Rob, Thanks so

2345
02:00:08,280 --> 02:00:10,520
Speaker 1: much for taking the time to tell your story to

2346
02:00:10,680 --> 02:00:11,360
Speaker 1: my audience.

2347
02:00:11,680 --> 02:00:14,640
Speaker 2: It's a pleasure, Bob. I've been reading you for years

2348
02:00:14,680 --> 02:00:16,480
Speaker 2: and years and it is an absolute pleasure.

2349
02:00:16,160 --> 02:00:20,360
Speaker 1: To that's great talking to you. Obviously, you'll see him

2350
02:00:20,400 --> 02:00:23,080
Speaker 1: on the road in some incarnation, coming fast, and of

2351
02:00:23,320 --> 02:00:27,240
Speaker 1: course you'll hear Smooth in your grocery store, on the radio.

2352
02:00:27,720 --> 02:00:31,440
Speaker 2: Kahoon, and in your nightmares till next time.

2353
02:00:32,040 --> 02:00:33,360
Speaker 1: This is Bob left side.