Speaker 1: Welcome back to it could happen here the podcast where
Speaker 1: Jay your Boltonaro was once again in the hospital getting
Speaker 1: all of the facings sucked out of his in the hospital.
Speaker 1: The most consistently dying man in the world. You know what,
Speaker 1: this man in history, you know, actually literally full of
Speaker 1: ship again. You know what? You know what this means.
Speaker 1: It approximately three four weeks, Stephen Crowder is going to
Speaker 1: get some horrible illness. And if we said to the hospitals,
Speaker 1: well the cycle, this is the only like the cycle.
Speaker 1: My hope for both of them is that they find
Speaker 1: out that each has an obscure disease that can only
Speaker 1: be cured by piping ship from the other into them,
Speaker 1: And so they just hook them up via a tube
Speaker 1: and they're just sucking poop out of each of them
Speaker 1: and putting it into the other person. That would be
Speaker 1: very funny. Hot All right, what's our first question? Our
Speaker 1: first question? So this was specifically addressed to Chris, so
Speaker 1: Chris you can answer first, But I think this is
Speaker 1: a question for for everyone. Really, what is your favorite
Speaker 1: piece of history that you haven't been able to talk
Speaker 1: about yet on the show that isn't deserving of a
Speaker 1: whole episode, favorite piece of I mean, we ain't talked
Speaker 1: about the Zapatista as yet because I don't I don't
Speaker 1: yet feel comfortable, uh with with my level of knowledge there.
Speaker 1: But it's definitely history that's extremely relevant to the kind
Speaker 1: of ship we talked about on the show. Have I
Speaker 1: talked about the water and gas wars and Bolivia on
Speaker 1: the show? We've talked about that at all? Either? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean althought. I mean that that probably is deserving
Speaker 1: of its own episode. But absolutely a bunch of people
Speaker 1: just literally like blocking every road in the entire country
Speaker 1: and starving out the ruling class because they can't like
Speaker 1: import food into the city because they've blocked every single road.
Speaker 1: Extremely cool, I guess in terms of like really short,
Speaker 1: not deserving of its own episode, I don't know either,
Speaker 1: because I've I've been able to elongate all my periods
Speaker 1: into episodes. Yeah, I don't know that there's anything we
Speaker 1: wouldn't cover. There's certainly things we haven't covered yet for
Speaker 1: a variety of reasons. Often just like I don't feel
Speaker 1: like we've had the time to do. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of work. Yeah, it's like why why haven't why haven't
Speaker 1: we done a Mao episodes like do you know how
Speaker 1: much ship that motherfucker got in his life? I have
Speaker 1: been like mentally like psychologically preparing myself to start working
Speaker 1: on mat like this is a ah, that's that Actually, no,
Speaker 1: it's the Mango Colts. It's definitely the Mango Colts. Did
Speaker 1: you did you did you know about this? No? The
Speaker 1: Mango Colts. Yeah, okay, So so Mao got like I
Speaker 1: forget who was I want to say it was the
Speaker 1: Prime Minister of Pakistan some something like dignitary like gave
Speaker 1: him a man. This is this is like this is
Speaker 1: the beginning of the cultural revolution. Somebody gives him a
Speaker 1: mango and he like hands this mango off to like
Speaker 1: a red mango and like they like like this this
Speaker 1: turns into like a cult. Like people like they take
Speaker 1: this mango, they like preserve it. It's it's like they
Speaker 1: have they have like a shrine to the mango. And
Speaker 1: like like there's this whole cult apparatus like builds up
Speaker 1: around just people getting mangoes as like tokens of Mao's favors.
Speaker 1: This just like this this massive things that is this
Speaker 1: This this spreads like wildfire. It's like people are doing
Speaker 1: this in like the far western reaches of China where
Speaker 1: like like in places where like there's like like one
Speaker 1: of things culture with Like there there are places in
Speaker 1: China where like civil wars breakout and it takes people
Speaker 1: like a week to like send representatives like across China
Speaker 1: to go like talk to the Central Committee to argue
Speaker 1: their case. And like even in those places they have
Speaker 1: mango cults and it is it is wild. The culture
Speaker 1: revolution is a is a it is a time. It is. Well,
Speaker 1: I know what I'm getting everyone for Christmas this year.
Speaker 1: They're my favorite fruit. Like, well, we'll see if the
Speaker 1: species survives this next summer. Oh we will, Yeah, we'll
Speaker 1: just be growing. So just be growing in Siberia. Mangoes
Speaker 1: sprouting from the corpses of fucking antelope. That is beautiful. Um,
Speaker 1: I can't think of anything. Next question, okay, uh speaking
Speaker 1: of history, I like this one. If you could fight
Speaker 1: anyone in history, wait for it and lose, who would
Speaker 1: you fight? And why who would I fight and lose
Speaker 1: and lose? Like you still get like a few good
Speaker 1: hits in or something, but you'd lose, David Bowie because
Speaker 1: it would be hot. Next question other people could answer
Speaker 1: I guess no. I think that's a good that's the
Speaker 1: perfect Yeah. I would happily be hit by David Bowie,
Speaker 1: so sure, why not there? Yeah, And I know that
Speaker 1: David Bowie really loved to hit teenagers. I would be
Speaker 1: totally hitting. In the other sense, I would be fine
Speaker 1: with anything. I don't care when it comes to Bowie. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's problematic. Problematic. Uh huh. We got a few questions
Speaker 1: about the ethics of leaving the United States as things
Speaker 1: get worse. Okay, that's one. Yeah, And this is something
Speaker 1: that I know we've talked about. You've got that get
Speaker 1: out of America and I see. That's the thing is that,
Speaker 1: like I already have my Canadian passport, so that is
Speaker 1: something that I can do at any time. And that's
Speaker 1: something that I probably will do at some point, because
Speaker 1: one I can see myself in my theorties and forties,
Speaker 1: living in Canada will be a lot easier in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways in terms of like how much money
Speaker 1: it will cost for me to live and pay certain things,
Speaker 1: Like living in Canada at a certain point will just
Speaker 1: make a lot more sense for me. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: probably will move up. Um. And I also know that
Speaker 1: getting past Canadian border patrol. Not that hard in terms
Speaker 1: of other people wanting to go legally or illegally. That's
Speaker 1: it is actually pretty easy to get to get up there. Um,
Speaker 1: if you want to do it legally, that's definitely a
Speaker 1: lot a lot more work, but also not impossible. Um yeah,
Speaker 1: I think. I mean, like it's important to know that,
Speaker 1: like moving to somewhere else is not escaping the effects,
Speaker 1: because the effects are going to reach everywhere, but it
Speaker 1: can have a lot of advantages, um, especially kids. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I I say moving up is or moving away
Speaker 1: from the States is a decent thing for a lot
Speaker 1: of people. I don't feel the need to stay and
Speaker 1: fight for something that I don't really care about what's
Speaker 1: in the first place anyway, UM, So sure do what
Speaker 1: may because you happy in the time that you have alive.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's a that says as ethical as
Speaker 1: you need to get Yeah, I don't think anyone has
Speaker 1: a responsibility to like stay in uh fight to the
Speaker 1: death uh in in a collapsing country. Um As as
Speaker 1: a general rule, I'm very sympathetic towards refugees, And that's
Speaker 1: kind of what you would be if you're talking about
Speaker 1: fleeing the United States because you're it's in the process
Speaker 1: of falling apart, and things are you suspect a lot
Speaker 1: about to get a lot more violent, especially if you
Speaker 1: have again, like a family kids. Um I I had
Speaker 1: options to do that that I've I've chosen at this
Speaker 1: point not to UM, not to pursue UM, but UH,
Speaker 1: I get white people would and as a general rule,
Speaker 1: like I spent I spent once when I was UM
Speaker 1: in UH in Bosnia and Serbia talking to survivors of
Speaker 1: the genocide there in the nineties. UM. I took a
Speaker 1: train ride UM from Sarajevo to like a little town
Speaker 1: near Strabernitza and Uh. During the train ride, I wound
Speaker 1: up like hanging out with this dude who had been
Speaker 1: born and raised in Yugoslavia and had been living in
Speaker 1: Canada since the Civil War, and he, like very through
Speaker 1: in his kind of broken English, explained like, yeah, when
Speaker 1: the war broke out, all of my friends, all of
Speaker 1: these other young guys I knew, were like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: we're gonna fight, We're gonna fight, And I said no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no. Went to Canada and this is the first
Speaker 1: time I've been back and that was the smart thing
Speaker 1: to do. Um, So I'm not I mean, if you
Speaker 1: can get the if you can get out and find
Speaker 1: a place that's safer, as Garrison said, like there's there's
Speaker 1: nothing I think that inherently behooves you to spend your
Speaker 1: uh limited time on this planet struggling, and especially if
Speaker 1: you've got a family, like doing what you can to
Speaker 1: put them in a safer position is great. That said,
Speaker 1: none of it's a permanent or even necessarily a long
Speaker 1: term solution. Like idea of moving to Canada has a
Speaker 1: lot of appeal, but like if you think that Canada
Speaker 1: is going to keep being what would a lot of
Speaker 1: Americans see it as as the United States collapses into
Speaker 1: like fascism. I don't know how realistic a proposition that
Speaker 1: really is. And it's the same for a lot of places,
Speaker 1: Like all of these problems are global problems, and moving
Speaker 1: geographically unless you're wealthy enough to move to like some
Speaker 1: fortified compound protected by contractors in a place that is
Speaker 1: actually insulated from climate change to a significant extent, um
Speaker 1: is not the does not bring the degree of security
Speaker 1: you might expect. Um, I do think there is. I
Speaker 1: do think it is generally speaking, a noble and positive thing,
Speaker 1: uh to to to stay and try to make things
Speaker 1: better where you are. But um, you know, I think everybody,
Speaker 1: I think everyone. I think every like single person, whether
Speaker 1: they admit it or not, would leave at a certain
Speaker 1: point if they possibly could. Um, And I don't think
Speaker 1: anyone is. I don't think anyone owes it to the
Speaker 1: world to like, uh die in a place that they
Speaker 1: hate just because um, that's where they were born and
Speaker 1: we're bad. Okay, what tool besides bolt cutters should we
Speaker 1: all own in a collapse situation? First of all, bolt cutters,
Speaker 1: that should not be your first picture to for a tool. No, No,
Speaker 1: it should be an angle grinder with a diamond blade. No.
Speaker 1: Even like water filters gotten me out of a number
Speaker 1: of types water filtration systems. There's a starters, like, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of there's a lot of stuff if not
Speaker 1: even's not water filtration, you can get tablets or honestly,
Speaker 1: like you can have a little hand pump filter and
Speaker 1: water purification tablets along with a little you know, there's
Speaker 1: a number of things that are that should be in
Speaker 1: a go bag away. You do get some amount of
Speaker 1: of already clean water in a way to get more
Speaker 1: clean water, enough food to at least deal with three
Speaker 1: to five days. Um, some rope. UM. A good knife
Speaker 1: multi tool is even better in most situations if you
Speaker 1: have if you don't mind the weight, a belt knife
Speaker 1: and a multi tool would be great. Or a multi
Speaker 1: tool in a little hand axe, which depending on where
Speaker 1: you live, might be more useful in splitting wood. A
Speaker 1: good fire starter. UM. Some amount of rubbing alcohol, which
Speaker 1: is always a handy thing to have on hand. UM.
Speaker 1: Either maps or you know, batteries for an electronic device
Speaker 1: that might be able to act as a map. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that that's all useful stuff. UM. I do I I
Speaker 1: do keep in the boot of my car generally an
Speaker 1: angle grinder. UM. I have come into, especially living out
Speaker 1: in the middle of nowhere, a couple of situations like
Speaker 1: sometimes somebody has a health emergency and there is a
Speaker 1: fence in the way. UM, and it's it has been
Speaker 1: something that is and is I think going to be
Speaker 1: easier for boat cutters are good at what they do,
Speaker 1: they also require a lot of forearm and upper body
Speaker 1: strength that is not going to be as much of
Speaker 1: an option for people. So angle grinder not a bad
Speaker 1: thing to have in any sort of like it, especially
Speaker 1: if you like if you're if you're planning a kid,
Speaker 1: like I want to keep ship in my car because
Speaker 1: the wildfires are coming right, Um, Well, you're probably don't
Speaker 1: want a battery powered saw, um because depending on the
Speaker 1: capable Even if you have a very capable off roading vehicle,
Speaker 1: everyone I know who does serious overlanding is like, well
Speaker 1: you keep a fucking chainsaw in there because sometimes you
Speaker 1: need to cut wood out of the way and you're
Speaker 1: just not going to get your car over it. Um.
Speaker 1: So it really depends on what you're doing, and like
Speaker 1: what the what the the kind of potential threats you're
Speaker 1: worried about are um, But yeah, I think the basics
Speaker 1: are way to get water, some amount of food, ability
Speaker 1: to start a fire. Something like a space blanket is
Speaker 1: useful if you live in a place where it actually
Speaker 1: gets hold. You should have a space blanket and a
Speaker 1: wool blanket or a couple of wool blankets, because those
Speaker 1: will retain heat much better. Wool keeps like eight of
Speaker 1: its insulating capacity even when wet, and like layering wool
Speaker 1: and survival blankets UM can be a really effective way
Speaker 1: to keep yourself from dying in in in bad weather situations. Um.
Speaker 1: That said, depending on where you are, there may be
Speaker 1: no realistic way to protect yourself in the like if
Speaker 1: you are in certain parts of the Midwest at certain
Speaker 1: parts of the winter, it may not matter so much,
Speaker 1: like what blankets you have at access to frustrating the
Speaker 1: will there's and there's no like structures around you, then yeah,
Speaker 1: it's negative. There's only so much. Yeah, I do love
Speaker 1: collecting a lock bypass tools. It's one of my favorite
Speaker 1: things is just to have these practice using them. Um.
Speaker 1: Something I got for when I went to the Earth
Speaker 1: First Gathering that worked out pretty well was a foldable
Speaker 1: solar panel that connects to USB. That's enough to keep
Speaker 1: my phone alive always. So in terms of always wanting
Speaker 1: a map, this little foldable thing is enough to keep
Speaker 1: my phone able to have a map assuming I have
Speaker 1: cell service. So I was skeptical of how much this
Speaker 1: thing could work. Um, and it it did a decent
Speaker 1: enough job. It even kept it even kept like my
Speaker 1: iPad pro um uh powered as well, so it had
Speaker 1: had had a decent amount of square footage once you
Speaker 1: unroll it. So that was very useful. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I I really like luck bypass stuff. Um, it's
Speaker 1: one of one of one of my other hobbies. So
Speaker 1: this is, you know, a variety of tools in that
Speaker 1: type that it's a nice to get, like a decent
Speaker 1: collection of also like especially now, but probably in general,
Speaker 1: like have masks like just I mean just in general,
Speaker 1: like sure have masks, have lots of them. Make sure
Speaker 1: you can change them. Yeah, I have a gas mask
Speaker 1: if that's at all physically like respond like fiscally possible
Speaker 1: for you. Mira is the one I think Garrison and
Speaker 1: I would both recommend to the want really good gas
Speaker 1: wonderful again all of these kids, there's the kid are like, okay,
Speaker 1: what is the what is what's necessary? And then there's
Speaker 1: like all right, if you have money or if you
Speaker 1: have time that you want to learn extra skills? What
Speaker 1: are other things like lock picks? If you're just a
Speaker 1: random Joe and you've never like, don't throw lock picks
Speaker 1: in your kid, if you've never done any lock pick ship,
Speaker 1: they're not going to help you. Um. But if that
Speaker 1: that is a skill that is worth picking up and
Speaker 1: that will make you like more resilient. Um yeah um
Speaker 1: oh And a fourteen point nine millimeter anti material rifle. UM,
Speaker 1: you're always gonna need one of those. They're they stay
Speaker 1: supersonic it up to three and a half miles UM,
Speaker 1: which is really useful, So definitely, definitely, and they're only
Speaker 1: you probably aren't going to spend more than dollars getting
Speaker 1: one set up, So it's it's really for the price
Speaker 1: of of of a fairly new Toyota Prius, you could
Speaker 1: have UM an anti material rifle that con pierce armored
Speaker 1: vehicles at at several miles distance, And really what is
Speaker 1: more pragmatic a survival tool than that, and we for it.
Speaker 1: It's only like around that's just a moderately expensive meal
Speaker 1: per bullet. Christopher, Uh, do you think that corporations like
Speaker 1: Walmart or Amazon could become more military stick as? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I think I think absolutely. The trend
Speaker 1: that worries me as Amazon's increasing UM collaborations with in
Speaker 1: deeper connections with like the FBI and other kind of
Speaker 1: law enforcement agencies. UM. The degree to which target has
Speaker 1: also like with the FBI and like with other agencies,
Speaker 1: because they're they're anti shrink department and whatnot. They're like
Speaker 1: they're the surveillance they've built to stop theft is so advanced.
Speaker 1: They have one of the best crime labs in the
Speaker 1: whole United States. Yeah, organizations like Tiger Swan, which is
Speaker 1: a mercenary group that the Dakota Pipeline people, the Dapple
Speaker 1: folks like hired to crack down on the Standing Rock
Speaker 1: protests and have have worked in other There's other organizations
Speaker 1: like that that we're active during the BLM protests and
Speaker 1: kind of the I I do think we're seeing a
Speaker 1: pair of militarization of a lot of these corporation, a
Speaker 1: lot of these corporations in order to protect their what
Speaker 1: they see is their financial interests um and that that
Speaker 1: is that is proceeding rapidly. And it's not the thing
Speaker 1: that I'm not most I'm not most worried about them.
Speaker 1: Like do like having armed forces, although there will be
Speaker 1: some degree of that. There's already that's already happened, Like
Speaker 1: in Portland and downtown Portland there are armed effectively like
Speaker 1: mercenaries guarding certain businesses and certain areas like as a
Speaker 1: result of like you know, to deal with quote unquote
Speaker 1: the gun crime or whatever property crime that's raised. But
Speaker 1: the thing that I think is most concerning is the
Speaker 1: degree to which they are professionalizing a paramilitary surveillance apparatus UM,
Speaker 1: and Amazon has done it to do stuff like crackdown
Speaker 1: on union organizing and whatnot. Like, So, yeah, I'm very
Speaker 1: concerned with that. I'm I I think that the the
Speaker 1: dimension of it that's most frightening is not necessarily like
Speaker 1: the shadow run, you know, corporations buying armies, but rather
Speaker 1: corporations buying like intelligence agencies. UM is kind of the
Speaker 1: thing that I think will actually be the biggest threat
Speaker 1: UM because in a lot of cases, generally speaking, if
Speaker 1: I have to deal with an armed security guard or
Speaker 1: a cop, that security guard is going to be less
Speaker 1: of a pain in the ass than the cop. UM.
Speaker 1: Not always, but as a general rule, I'm less worried
Speaker 1: about security guards than cops, even armed ones. I think
Speaker 1: another thing that's important to keep in mind is that, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, so's like I don't. I don't. I really
Speaker 1: don't think there's a danger that we're going to go
Speaker 1: back to like East India company style, like people with
Speaker 1: mass armies, because it's it's literally too expensive, Like you can't,
Speaker 1: it's it's too expensive, and the armies that exist already
Speaker 1: do that. Yeah, yeah, you don't need them. But but
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that the thing the thing that's
Speaker 1: like scary outside of the intelligence stuff, which is terrifying,
Speaker 1: but it's the stuff they do down like like you
Speaker 1: call it down the supply chain, which is like you know,
Speaker 1: the Cocolan murdering union organizers with paramilitaries, right, they tend
Speaker 1: to work through like like you know, the corporations will
Speaker 1: back rebel groups, right, corporations will back like you know,
Speaker 1: in Colombia, you see a lot of this is like
Speaker 1: you have these sort of like these I mean something
Speaker 1: about some of the back just directly by landholding holding corporations.
Speaker 1: Some of them are backed by just individual large landholders.
Speaker 1: But you get these, like you know, you get basically
Speaker 1: these paramilitaries that are sort of the third wave after
Speaker 1: the army goes in, and that stuff is very scary
Speaker 1: or probably we're probably gonna see more of that, and yeah,
Speaker 1: but but but but I think it's it's kind of
Speaker 1: important that there's there there's an extent to which again
Speaker 1: you'll see them having their own mercenaries. But a lot
Speaker 1: of the time it's there's some kind of thing when
Speaker 1: when when companies really need to kill someone, they tend
Speaker 1: to outsource that to aid like another sort of paramilitary organization.
Speaker 1: That's like not directly in their supply chain. It's like
Speaker 1: they thought directly under the train in command. Mhm. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's a good and fun time that we'll probably
Speaker 1: just get worse mhm. Speaking of corporate uh funkori or whatever.
Speaker 1: You get a Coca Cola add? I hope, I hope
Speaker 1: you do. Got a Coca Cola add because nothing soothes
Speaker 1: my quench like a cherry vanilla Coca Cola. Nothing soothes
Speaker 1: your quench. That's what I said. Those are words that
Speaker 1: came out of a mouth. We're back, okay, Robert. Somebody
Speaker 1: had a question about back when you worked at Track,
Speaker 1: about a woman who was hiding from their family. The
Speaker 1: end of article, you mentioned that you haven't heard from
Speaker 1: her in a couple of weeks leading up to and
Speaker 1: they want to know if you've ever heard from her again.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's a bummer. The pseudonym I'm I'm not
Speaker 1: going to use her real name in this, but the
Speaker 1: pseudonym I used for her in the article was as Am.
Speaker 1: She was a woman who lived in Um the EU
Speaker 1: and uh was under threat of honor killing from her
Speaker 1: family who were from Pakistan in origin Um because she
Speaker 1: was an atheist, was not UM religious hardliner UM and
Speaker 1: didn't want to be. And for years she had kind
Speaker 1: of hidden that from her family, Like she'd moved out
Speaker 1: on her own, but she'd hidden the fact that, like
Speaker 1: she had a boyfriend, she'd hidden the fact that she'd
Speaker 1: liked played dungeons all of this stuff, like she played
Speaker 1: D and D and was like scared that, like that
Speaker 1: was like her dad would literally kill her. And this
Speaker 1: is a thing that happens, This is a thing that
Speaker 1: happens in the United States and the EU. UM. It's
Speaker 1: a problem with like fundamentalist um Islam, and that's not
Speaker 1: the only religion there's honor killings as a result on.
Speaker 1: But that was her specific situation. One of the things
Speaker 1: she was frightened about is her family would go back
Speaker 1: to Pakistan regularly, and she was concerned. She wanted to
Speaker 1: go because it was the only way to see her grandparents,
Speaker 1: but she was also concerned that if her parents found
Speaker 1: out when they went back, they would basically imprison her
Speaker 1: somewhere where she would not be able to get out
Speaker 1: and get back to her home. And she would be
Speaker 1: forced to be married off or something. So she was
Speaker 1: working with an organization UM in the country in the
Speaker 1: EU where she lived that helped people extricate themselves and
Speaker 1: and the kind of one of the last things she
Speaker 1: told me is that, like, well, the things she was
Speaker 1: looking at doing because she was so worried about her
Speaker 1: dad was a total break. Was like one day, with
Speaker 1: the help of this organization, she would just be gone
Speaker 1: and in another part of the EU and would have
Speaker 1: a complete break from her life and would completely stop
Speaker 1: living as the identity she had had her entire life. UM.
Speaker 1: And I never heard from her again after that, after
Speaker 1: like three or four different interview sessions, and I still
Speaker 1: have not uh. And my hope is that she did
Speaker 1: the thing she said she was going to do, and
Speaker 1: she just completely burned that email and every other way
Speaker 1: people had of getting in touch with her. UM. And
Speaker 1: she's doing great now. But I really have no idea. UM,
Speaker 1: I have absolutely no idea what happened to her. Oh uh,
Speaker 1: so we would people want an update on the quest
Speaker 1: for eel horse. Uh. Still no, still no horse. Still
Speaker 1: have not found an entire horse carcass um. But but
Speaker 1: one day it'll happen. You know it'll happen. Okay, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be good. Garrison. That gator that I shoved a
Speaker 1: turkey or a duck inside and a turkey next too,
Speaker 1: was pretty good. It was great after I took it
Speaker 1: out of the pit as you were wrestling people screaming. Well,
Speaker 1: that's the only way to properly cook it. The right
Speaker 1: amount of time is to get drunk enough that people
Speaker 1: have to fight you to remove it from the fire gear.
Speaker 1: That's how cooking works. I don't know, if you've done
Speaker 1: much of it in your life, you'll you'll understand one day.
Speaker 1: This This is a question that I find interesting because
Speaker 1: I feel like it really must understand not to like
Speaker 1: insult the first asking it. But I think that that's
Speaker 1: that's not that's not not what I'm trying to do. Um.
Speaker 1: The question is, um, what population can the post capitalist
Speaker 1: world sustain and thrive on with our ideas and concepts?
Speaker 1: A billion? Like we currently have six billion to a
Speaker 1: billion less than ability? Like how how do people are
Speaker 1: you willing to lose to achieve sustainability? Because I forget
Speaker 1: that the community and are optimistic with proper technology and
Speaker 1: ecosustainability techniques we can maintain a population close to what
Speaker 1: we have now. And Yeah, I feel like just the
Speaker 1: framing of this question kind of approaches our current problems
Speaker 1: and the solutions we have in a weird way, because
Speaker 1: I don't think we're not trying to reach a eek population.
Speaker 1: We're trying to make sure the people that we have
Speaker 1: have enough stuff to live well, and we have that
Speaker 1: right now. We we we overproduce everything. We make about
Speaker 1: one and a half times as much food as we
Speaker 1: need to to feed everybody. Yet there are billions and
Speaker 1: millions of people who go hungry. So it's not a
Speaker 1: so like it's approaching this question. Yeah, so approaching this
Speaker 1: question in terms of, like how could the post capitalist
Speaker 1: world thrive on our ideas and like I, we're not
Speaker 1: trying to like reach a certain population number, where I
Speaker 1: think going it from that way is kind of a
Speaker 1: little silly because I feel like it should be the
Speaker 1: opposite is. But yeah, I don't know why we don't
Speaker 1: think we need to start with population and then go down.
Speaker 1: The point is is, look what we have, here's the people.
Speaker 1: Let's distribute this like a network instead of a top
Speaker 1: down kind of system. Yeah, I think that one of
Speaker 1: the things you have to if you're taught, if you're
Speaker 1: trying to talk about social ecology, one of the things
Speaker 1: you have to resist, UM is this idea that like
Speaker 1: they're overpopulation is any part of the problem. It is not.
Speaker 1: Consumption is a problem, um, But there's plenty of resources.
Speaker 1: The problem is again one of allocation. And if you
Speaker 1: were to actually develop a much more equitable society where
Speaker 1: people were getting enough, one of the things that we
Speaker 1: have seen demographically all over the world when um the
Speaker 1: level of kind of UM, when the the sort of
Speaker 1: resources available per capita and a population increases, is people
Speaker 1: have less kids um and And like I think that, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's certainly good to say that, like, in a world
Speaker 1: that is more equitable, the human population will naturally level
Speaker 1: off and decrease somewhat. But that the thing that's not
Speaker 1: the same as saying that, like, we need to decrease
Speaker 1: the population. We need to increase um equity um and
Speaker 1: and make sure that people have access to the resources
Speaker 1: that they need UM and also that people who are
Speaker 1: massively over consuming aren't allowed to do that anymore. You know,
Speaker 1: that will solve the problems and scale back all of
Speaker 1: the resources being put towards useless growth and predicted towards
Speaker 1: better distribution, thus actually mean like the questioner used the
Speaker 1: term like post capitalist, I don't think we're gonna get
Speaker 1: to a post capitalist world ever, like, at least at
Speaker 1: least not when I'm allowed. I don't think like a world. No.
Speaker 1: Will there be post capitalist areas, probably, but we're never
Speaker 1: gonna get there. There's never gonna be a post capitalist world.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. I don't think that. I also
Speaker 1: think it's entirely possible that we will reach points that
Speaker 1: people in the time will not necessarily consider post capitalist
Speaker 1: because it will be the same states and a lot
Speaker 1: of the same institutions organizations that were there as a kid.
Speaker 1: But people who were, you know, looking at it from
Speaker 1: a perspective today might consider post capitalist because that's generally
Speaker 1: how change happens. You know. Yeah, about like how democracy
Speaker 1: increased in in the UK, but they still had like
Speaker 1: a king. It's like when did they they're not, they
Speaker 1: never really reached post mod anarchy. But it's also not
Speaker 1: the same system that they were run by in like
Speaker 1: four hundred, you know, it's wildly different and there's much
Speaker 1: more representation for more people. But it it's that is
Speaker 1: not you know that there's also you also have your
Speaker 1: your Soviet unions and your your killing of czars, and
Speaker 1: which which is fine, and and and and and I
Speaker 1: I like killings ours. But change happens in a variety
Speaker 1: of ways, and change can be revolutionary in its effect
Speaker 1: without being a clear break. Yeah. I'm just trying to
Speaker 1: think of like how we're talking about like the capitalist
Speaker 1: world thriving, Like I don't I don't view eight billion
Speaker 1: people thriving right now even with that like a lot
Speaker 1: of like it's not like it's that's not what's happening
Speaker 1: right now, And we need to change the way like
Speaker 1: distribution of resources works drastically, and doing that will make
Speaker 1: everyone's lives a whole lot better. And it will also
Speaker 1: maybe about some of the endless growth and those things
Speaker 1: aren't opposites, um And I just I don't know how
Speaker 1: like we can say those things, but the path to
Speaker 1: getting there is certainly a lot more ambiguous. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I think that that's I think one of the ways
Speaker 1: in which the left goes wrong often is kind of
Speaker 1: looking at things that have been tried before and and
Speaker 1: didn't didn't didn't do the trick and saying like what
Speaker 1: we need is we need us another Bolshevik revolution. You know,
Speaker 1: we need to bring back that you hammer and sickle.
Speaker 1: And it's like, well, you know, they gave it the
Speaker 1: old College try and they did not win. UM. And
Speaker 1: you can be angry at that or whatever, or you
Speaker 1: can be like, Okay, it's the same, and hey, it's
Speaker 1: it's every tendency. I can look at the fucking Maknos
Speaker 1: and be like, well, that was based as hell, and
Speaker 1: you know what, it didn't do the fucking trick. UM.
Speaker 1: So I think there's a degree of humility that needs
Speaker 1: to be had in terms of like what actual, what
Speaker 1: actual change that makes a more livable world will look
Speaker 1: like in the way in which That's one of the
Speaker 1: reasons I did enjoy Kim Stanley Robinson's Ministry of the
Speaker 1: Future is a lot of it is about the end
Speaker 1: of capitalism in a way that is not UM. It's
Speaker 1: it's it. It doesn't look like a lot of ends
Speaker 1: of capitalism have have kind of been posited by UM.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of uh strong arming bankers into like
Speaker 1: forcing high level economic changes that put insto like really
Speaker 1: extractive systems and whatnot UM, and it's it's it's interesting.
Speaker 1: It was kind of an imagining of how the transition
Speaker 1: could begin UM in a way that that isn't commonly
Speaker 1: talked about UM, at least on the left. And I
Speaker 1: thought it was valuable for that, And I think people
Speaker 1: should be I think there's I think that UM UM
Speaker 1: people can be more creative in how they envisioned the
Speaker 1: way that might look than they they often are. And
Speaker 1: I feel like this question actually relates to like stuff
Speaker 1: like dual power really well, because our our goal individuals
Speaker 1: is not feeding eight billion people. Our goal is to
Speaker 1: get a garden enough so that we can feed most
Speaker 1: of our friends off of stuff that we grew for
Speaker 1: like the summer, right, Like that's like that's what our
Speaker 1: goal is to is to build it from that way
Speaker 1: instead of saying, like how how can we feed New
Speaker 1: York in a climate sustainable way? That is a very
Speaker 1: different question than being like if we want to integrate
Speaker 1: solar punk and like eco sustainability stuff into our lives now,
Speaker 1: because if we don't do it, no one really else
Speaker 1: is really going to. Let's start with the people you
Speaker 1: actually already have connections with, because a lot of it
Speaker 1: is is about building like horizontal connections as opposed to
Speaker 1: defaulting to this top down system of who has what,
Speaker 1: who needs what? And this is when we when we venture,
Speaker 1: when we dare to venture into the subreddit. One of
Speaker 1: the things I see people like critiquing a lot is like, well,
Speaker 1: you're you know, they keep talking about like all of
Speaker 1: these little like home gardening and like canning and and
Speaker 1: and kind of these community level solutions, but that's not
Speaker 1: going to deal with like this massive systemic problem. And
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, it's not all about that. There's there's
Speaker 1: One of the methods in which you can ensure change
Speaker 1: is keeping you and yours alive and committed on change.
Speaker 1: And part of that is ex hyper local solutions UM
Speaker 1: that also involve increasing your own idea of your autonomy
Speaker 1: and your own and your own understanding of things like
Speaker 1: the food cycle, which have an impact on what you
Speaker 1: like vote for and what you support pushing for on
Speaker 1: like a societal level, the things that you come to
Speaker 1: better understand in your daily life, and and so getting
Speaker 1: involved in all of these things guerilla gardening and whatnot
Speaker 1: UM has an impact on that. All I do think
Speaker 1: people underestimate, like the largest crop by acreage in the
Speaker 1: United States by a long shot, is fucking lawns and
Speaker 1: replacing lawns with either zero escaping just to increase carbon
Speaker 1: capture and reduce water usage, or with some sort of
Speaker 1: food growth. Doing a mix of that for the vast
Speaker 1: majority of like lawn area in the United States actually
Speaker 1: would be a significant thing on a global level. Recommend
Speaker 1: everyone the Book of Food not lawns. Yeah, there's it's
Speaker 1: that that would not be a meaningless change, and it
Speaker 1: is something that people can have an impact on because
Speaker 1: it is the kind of thing that if we were
Speaker 1: to get popular enough, there's a Pokemon point, you know,
Speaker 1: where it where it becomes a trend um and and
Speaker 1: like Pokemon, if it gets popular enough, it will never die.
Speaker 1: That's what we say about all of our stuff on
Speaker 1: our show. If it if it becomes like Pokemon or
Speaker 1: or n f T point, if that's But I don't
Speaker 1: think in FT Pokemon is so much better than any
Speaker 1: n f T. Although the day that this drops, that
Speaker 1: will probably announce the Pokemon n FT game, which will
Speaker 1: be the final coffin in the biosphere. All of all
Speaker 1: of all of my Pokemons are gone. I've been had
Speaker 1: all my apes gone. That was my favorite post of
Speaker 1: the holiday season. Oh, Robert, do you want to give
Speaker 1: an update on After the Revolution? That was asked a
Speaker 1: couple of times. Yeah, seel, I'm three chapters in. Um,
Speaker 1: it'll be done, hopefully at some point this year. Garrison.
Speaker 1: Garrison has a question on that. Are you going to
Speaker 1: pay someone else to code the book? No? No, no,
Speaker 1: we pay you, Garrison. I don't want to code this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well I have to work on the Daily Show. Now
Speaker 1: I cannot code this. We all have things to do
Speaker 1: we don't want to do. Oh gosh, alright, I'm so sorry, Garrison,
Speaker 1: so sorry. We'll have you code some other people's books
Speaker 1: just to get get practiced. Stoff, no more coding. I
Speaker 1: will not allow it. There are there there are experts
Speaker 1: who can do this a lot prettier than I can
Speaker 1: with my I think, Garrison, I consider you an expert.
Speaker 1: Now ope, no, in in in E pub coding. I'll
Speaker 1: put that on my resume. Well, I think that does
Speaker 1: it for us today, folks. If you want to follow
Speaker 1: us on social media so you can watch us promote
Speaker 1: our own shows again, you can go to Cool's own
Speaker 1: Media on Twitter, Instagram, and happen here pod and wouldn't
Speaker 1: that be lovely? We get so much more connections through online.
Speaker 1: That's wow? That really do I love online? Yeah? And uh,
Speaker 1: we're doing it Behind the Bastards live stream digital show
Speaker 1: with prop on. That doesn't sound right, That doesn't This
Speaker 1: bit is so not funny everything time, it's not a bit.
Speaker 1: I'm just dreading it. I'm dreading it to but we're
Speaker 1: doing it. February moment House dot Com tickets still available.
Speaker 1: They are a moment how star come slash Behind the Bastards?
Speaker 1: Can I them scalpel them to the fans? I in
Speaker 1: the scarcity is the key? Well do that if you
Speaker 1: have disposable income and want to watch Robert talk Okay, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: more than we already do. I guarantee you it'll be
Speaker 1: worth it. Well that's the episode. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 1: I hope everyone has uh better two that would be nice.
Speaker 1: And I hope everyone has an identical two down to
Speaker 1: the day and until in May you realize that you're
Speaker 1: actually in like a groundhog Day style loop. Um, and
Speaker 1: then you would achieve nirvauna if I'm remembering how the
Speaker 1: movie Groundhog Day went properly? Sure, Uh, Yeah, that sounds
Speaker 1: that sounds great. Have a good year, makes some changes,
Speaker 1: make connections with people around you. There there you just
Speaker 1: just define them. Talk to people who look like they
Speaker 1: have cool politics or start doing cool things. You know,
Speaker 1: and started starting start doing cool things. Yeah, we should
Speaker 1: address one last thing, which is the question people ask
Speaker 1: that gets asked a lot, but we probably can't address enough,
Speaker 1: which is like, there's no one around me doing any
Speaker 1: of this mutual A stuff. There's nobody around me engaging
Speaker 1: any of the stuff that I want to get How
Speaker 1: do how do I get organized and get involved? Number one?
Speaker 1: There are people around you doing that kind of ship.
Speaker 1: It may just be hard to find because of where
Speaker 1: you are. UM. But if you start doing ship, if
Speaker 1: you like, the simplest thing I can say is try
Speaker 1: and figure out where there's a need and start filling
Speaker 1: it UM. Often you will start meeting other people who
Speaker 1: are engaged in adjacent projects or even the same thing UM.
Speaker 1: And that's a way to get into it if you
Speaker 1: are trying to start, if you actually get so far
Speaker 1: as to start serving a need in your area in
Speaker 1: a mutual aid capacity UM and trying to start organizing
Speaker 1: and whatnot, and you're doing shit, feel free to hit
Speaker 1: us up on email reach out. We are happy to
Speaker 1: signal boost and signpost people who are have actually started
Speaker 1: doing shit. Um. It's one of those things. Please don't
Speaker 1: come to I think this might be a cool idea,
Speaker 1: but if you start doing shit, um, and you can
Speaker 1: provide some evidence that you're you're doing something in your
Speaker 1: community that's not currently being done that is a mutual
Speaker 1: aid type thing, or even even a charitable type thing
Speaker 1: if it's if you're doing it, we will try to
Speaker 1: help signal boost and and can be very useful in
Speaker 1: that capacity. So so it's not easy necessarily, especially depending
Speaker 1: on where you live, but like you do, it's always
Speaker 1: possible to find a need and fill it, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I found that, uh definitely was easier before the pandemic.
Speaker 1: But a way that I've met people that are a
Speaker 1: little bit more open minded to the same things that
Speaker 1: I'm open minded too, was going to like local comedy
Speaker 1: shows or things things that like farmers markets, farmers market,
Speaker 1: you know, wherever kind of weird, not not in the
Speaker 1: normal culture people will go to. You'll probably find someone
Speaker 1: there with radical politics. Yeah, that's problem, all those types
Speaker 1: of like like you know, countercultural subcultural spaces. You'll probably
Speaker 1: find someone there who's wearing a back patch that is
Speaker 1: something like smashed to something. You know, so like just
Speaker 1: like you, you have to you know you're not going
Speaker 1: to find them by staying at your in your house
Speaker 1: and scrolling on Twitter. I mean they probably not. You
Speaker 1: have to kind of go into the real world. Um
Speaker 1: as scary as the meat space. Maybe yeah. And I
Speaker 1: would say another thing to keep in mind if you
Speaker 1: are in kind of a more conservative area, and even
Speaker 1: if you do identify as an anarchist, you don't have
Speaker 1: to frame it that way. You can always call yourself
Speaker 1: a libertarian municipal list and none of the people who
Speaker 1: might be offended by anarchists will listen past libertarian and
Speaker 1: they'll decide you're fine. And that's a great way to
Speaker 1: to start that Like, uh, an ironic means the same
Speaker 1: thing more or less. I mean there's other kinds of
Speaker 1: anarchists who are but like most people who say they're anarchists,
Speaker 1: if you were to call them libertarian municipalists would be like,
Speaker 1: all right, whatever, yeah, not me, don't call me that,
Speaker 1: but call call Chris that constantly. That's that's that's that's it.
Speaker 1: We'll be back tomorrow or maybe not. I don't know what,
Speaker 1: probably tomorrow, probably tomorrow. Maybe that's what I'm saying, and
Speaker 1: it's been said. If you say so, it could happen
Speaker 1: Here is a production of cool Zone Media. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone
Speaker 1: media dot com, or check us out on the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen here, updated
Speaker 1: monthly at cool zone media dot com slash sources. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening,