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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And George Santos has recused himself from

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Speaker 1: sitting on any congressional committees. We have a show today

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Speaker 1: that is going to blow your mind. NBC political analysts

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Speaker 1: and Republican strategists Susan del Purcio will talk about the

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Speaker 1: Republican Party's descent into chaos. Then Washington Post contributing columnist

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Speaker 1: Danielle Allen, we'll talk about her a year long project

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Speaker 1: reporting on how we can repair our democracy. But first

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Speaker 1: we have senior editor at The Atlantic, Ron Brownstein. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Fast Politics. Ron Brownstein, Hey, thanks for having me again.

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Speaker 1: Happy to year. I guess can I still say that? No,

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Speaker 1: you're out of the window. Out of the window, and

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Speaker 1: letter David doesn't live that far from me, so who knows.

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Speaker 1: You might come down and smite me. But I want

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Speaker 1: to ask you. We are in the middle of this

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Speaker 1: insane house. I mean, it does feel like the there

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Speaker 1: are no adults in the house. Chilp. Yeah. I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: you know, the house is often the expression of the

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Speaker 1: party's I at any given moment, either party. We certainly

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Speaker 1: saw that in the nineties when the ging which generation

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Speaker 1: took control of the House. And now you have a

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Speaker 1: House in which roughly three quarters of the Republicans are

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Speaker 1: from deep Trump country, the districts that Trump won by

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Speaker 1: at least ten points, and then you have, you know,

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Speaker 1: their majority makers which put them over the top, are

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Speaker 1: the eighteen Republicans from districts that voted for Biden. And

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Speaker 1: the big question all year is going to be whether

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Speaker 1: those more vulnerable swing seat Republicans impose any restraints on

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Speaker 1: the right flank of the caucus or the conference which

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Speaker 1: feels enormously empowered by the outcome of the speaker fight

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Speaker 1: in which, you know, McCarthy kind of, as someone said

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Speaker 1: to me, surrendered his way to the speakership, really drawing

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Speaker 1: almost no lines and just constantly giving more visibility, power,

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Speaker 1: authority to the most extreme members of his caucus. And

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Speaker 1: the question is when, if at all, do the relatively

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Speaker 1: more you know, I wouldn't even say centrist members, members

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Speaker 1: from more centrist areas draw online Molly. I will say

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Speaker 1: that historically, waiting for this has been you know, waiting

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Speaker 1: for good. Oh. I remember when Republicans were looking at

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Speaker 1: impeaching Clinton. And there were many people, myself included, who

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Speaker 1: noted that there were at that point House Republicans from

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Speaker 1: districts had voted for Clinton in ninety six, and the

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Speaker 1: thought was, well, at least some of them are going

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Speaker 1: to throw the brakes on this train, and they didn't.

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Speaker 1: So logically you would say these eighteen plus another twenty

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Speaker 1: or so in districts the Trump wont only narrowly would

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Speaker 1: have a different set of incentives. But until proven otherwise,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure that's going to be the case. It's

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Speaker 1: interesting because Republicans paid dearly for that impeaching Clinton, yes,

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Speaker 1: and they paid dearly even in this election for the

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Speaker 1: image of extremists. You know, I wrote, I wrote the

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Speaker 1: other look historic, and you and I have talked about

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Speaker 1: this before. Historically, if you have the set of conditions

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Speaker 1: that we had in November twenty two, the out parties

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Speaker 1: should be looking at substantial games. Uh. You had a

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Speaker 1: president's groper writing was in the load of mid forties,

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Speaker 1: who had seventy of the country say the economy was

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Speaker 1: on the wrong track, and you had the highest inflation

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Speaker 1: in forty years, and yet Republicans enormously underperformed, and the

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Speaker 1: principal reason they underperformed at really all levels was that

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Speaker 1: too many voters who were dissatisfied with the way things

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Speaker 1: are going fought that Republicans are too extreme to entrust

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Speaker 1: with power. In fact, I had someone run from me

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Speaker 1: from the exit pose the other day to quantify this,

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Speaker 1: as you know, I like to quantify the ephemeral. Something

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Speaker 1: like forty two percent of voters who said the economy

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Speaker 1: was in bad shape said that Republicans were too extreme,

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Speaker 1: and those voters overwhelmingly voted Democratic for the House and

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Speaker 1: presumably for these other statewide races. And that was the

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Speaker 1: difference between I think a normal mid term that you

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Speaker 1: would expect in these conditions and what you actually got,

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Speaker 1: which was very disappointing for Republicans. And I've put them

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Speaker 1: in this situation where because they have such a narrow majority,

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Speaker 1: the far right part of the conference has all of

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Speaker 1: this leverage. So that's the paradox right, the the image

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Speaker 1: of extremism limited their gains, and those limited gains are

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Speaker 1: in turn empowering the most extreme forces in the conference

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Speaker 1: to demand more of the same attitudes and policies that

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Speaker 1: hurt them in the first place it seems like Kevin

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Speaker 1: McCarthy is not the man for this job. Well, McCarthy

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Speaker 1: has decided, you know that he's just not going to

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Speaker 1: fight this that he has got. McCarthy has basically made

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Speaker 1: the calculation which I have seen Republican speakers make before,

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Speaker 1: that in the end, it is the center, or the

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Speaker 1: folks from the centrist districts, who are going to break

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Speaker 1: and who will fall in line because they have theoretically,

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Speaker 1: in a five seat majority, they have as much power

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Speaker 1: as the right. You know, I mean eighteen House Republicans

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Speaker 1: and districts that Biden one, another two dozen or so

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Speaker 1: in district that Trump only narrowly, one that can easily

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Speaker 1: go the other way in a presidential race. They could

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Speaker 1: have said no to any of this, but he's betting

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Speaker 1: they won't, and that as long as he keeps the

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Speaker 1: right happy, he can keep his job. The voters get

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Speaker 1: another say on that in two years as well. But

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Speaker 1: in terms of the dynamics inside the Cock Conference, that

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Speaker 1: is clearly the calculation that he's making. The center in

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Speaker 1: the end will give in if he tells them I

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Speaker 1: have to do this to satisfy the right, and if

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Speaker 1: I don't you're gonna get someone even further than the

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Speaker 1: right to speaker like Schooley's. It is an interesting calculus.

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Speaker 1: And I do think that Matt Gates, I mean, he's

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Speaker 1: really elevated Matt Gates. I mean, I think that's proof

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Speaker 1: that what he's doing isn't ear a work gang. Well.

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Speaker 1: Marjorie Taylor Green as well. I mean, look, Marjorie Taylor Green,

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Speaker 1: You've got to imagine that they're going to be ads

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Speaker 1: in with Republican candidates in suburban districts, morphing into Marjorie

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Speaker 1: Taylor Green and Matt Gates, and you know, in the

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Speaker 1: same way that Republicans have tried to run against and

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Speaker 1: have run against Pelosi or the squad. You know, something

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Speaker 1: like six It was pretty close. I think was fifty

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Speaker 1: percent of independent voters in elections said Republicans were too extreme,

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Speaker 1: and it was a significantly wider spread for Republicans than

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Speaker 1: it was for Democrats among independent voters. McCarthy is systematically

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Speaker 1: putting the most off, putting potentially members of his caucus

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Speaker 1: in front of TV cameras and and giving them power

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Speaker 1: for the next year. I mean, they are on the

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Speaker 1: Oversight Committee, they are on this special Weaponization of the

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Speaker 1: Federal Government Committee. They are on the COVID Committee, and

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Speaker 1: so to the extent there are Republicans and they may,

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Speaker 1: in fact, you know, draw some blood from the Biden

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Speaker 1: administration through these various attacks and negotiations, but he has

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Speaker 1: guaranteed that in the process, their most extreme members are

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Speaker 1: going to be front and center, you know, talking about

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theories and all sorts of things that hurt them,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the places why they underperformed, and potentially

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Speaker 1: it hurt them even more in the context of a

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Speaker 1: presidential year, right, And and I think that's ultimately kind

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Speaker 1: of where we're seeing it go. Um. So, now we

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Speaker 1: have these committee hearings coming up soon, but we also

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Speaker 1: have the debt ceiling, and you've written about the dead ceiling.

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Speaker 1: Talk to me about this. It's like a runaway freight train. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's clearly the most important policy debate or confrontation that

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Speaker 1: we're going to have in in Washington. There's not going

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Speaker 1: to be a lot of substantive I mean, it's hard

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Speaker 1: to imagine this Republican conference in the House getting to

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Speaker 1: agreements with Biden on very much other than the bare

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Speaker 1: minimum of keeping the doors open in the government and

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Speaker 1: keeping the U S from defaulting, potentially throwing catastrophic ripples

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Speaker 1: through the global economy. And you know, what you've got

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Speaker 1: is a reprise of what happened in T eleven. So

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Speaker 1: you know, when Republicans are in the White House, Republicans

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Speaker 1: in Congress have no real problem raising the debt ceiling.

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Speaker 1: I mean they've they've done it. They did it repeatedly

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Speaker 1: under Trump, they did it under w It wasn't an issue.

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Speaker 1: When Democrats are in the White House and Republicans hold

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Speaker 1: a majority in either or both chambers, they demand spending

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Speaker 1: cuts to offset the debt ceiling increase. In fact, when

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Speaker 1: John Banner became Speaker in eleven, he offered what was

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Speaker 1: called the Baynor rule, which said for each dollar in

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Speaker 1: more debt authority you get, there should be an offsetting

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Speaker 1: dollar of spending cuts. Never mind that the debt ceiling

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Speaker 1: is not about future spending, it's about you know, funding

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Speaker 1: things we've already done, right, But that was what Bayner

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Speaker 1: laid out, and in eleven Obama did choose to negotiate

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Speaker 1: with the House Republicans on a deficit reduction deal was

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Speaker 1: known then as the Grand Bargain, and went through months

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Speaker 1: of kind of a multi layer negotiation that began with

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden and Eric Canter, who was then the number

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Speaker 1: two in the House, holding these meetings about you know,

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Speaker 1: cutting spending in the postal service and you know, auctioning

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Speaker 1: off the airwaves more efficiently and so forth. That ultimately

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Speaker 1: broke down over the Republican refusal to raise taxes, and

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Speaker 1: then Bayner and Obama picked up the baton in late

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Speaker 1: June July eleven. They had a series of secret meetings

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Speaker 1: that got them close to what was again described as

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Speaker 1: the Grand Bargain, which was basically a ten year plan

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Speaker 1: to raise taxes and reduced spending on Social Security and

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Speaker 1: medicare primarily to you know, lead toward the budget being

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Speaker 1: a balanced over time. And people who lived through that

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Speaker 1: will recall there was as as someone said to me,

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Speaker 1: put it to me last week, there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of that in the air. In eleven, I mean, there

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Speaker 1: was a Simpson Bowls Bipartisan Commission. He was executive to rector,

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Speaker 1: by the way, as the Deputy chief of Staff, and

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Speaker 1: the White House Bruce read there was a Dominicci rivalent.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they were just like these bipartisan commissions and

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Speaker 1: Obama basically accepted the idea that it would be a

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Speaker 1: good thing to reach a long term budget deal. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, there were a number It wasn't only Republicans

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Speaker 1: who were pressing him to do that at that point,

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Speaker 1: there were more kind of center right mansion esque Democratic

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Speaker 1: senators who were also pressing him to do that. After

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Speaker 1: two thousand too big initiatives, the stimulus planned on the

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Speaker 1: Affordable Care Act. So Obama went through these negotiations Biden

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Speaker 1: canner that collapsed, Obama banner that collapsed, and they were

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Speaker 1: forced to scramble in the final weekend before default in

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Speaker 1: these you know, horrific tense meetings inside the White House

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Speaker 1: to cobble together what turned out to still be a

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Speaker 1: significant budget reduction deal in order to get Republicans to

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Speaker 1: raise the dead ceiling. And Jack lou who was the

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Speaker 1: OMB director then and the Treasury secretary and the second term,

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Speaker 1: said to me, you don't have to here the audio.

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Speaker 1: You can just see the looks on the faces in

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Speaker 1: peach suits his pictures, and you know how much it was.

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Speaker 1: And Obama came out of that where none of the

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Speaker 1: positives that he was seeking a rational long term pathway towards,

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Speaker 1: you know, managing the debt. The deficit came out and

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Speaker 1: you instead had all of this market turbulence that took

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Speaker 1: the country to the Briton. And he came out of

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Speaker 1: that and he said never again. And the US credit

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Speaker 1: was downgraded. I mean it was traumatic. Oh, the US

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Speaker 1: credit was downgraded. It was a debacle. Republicans did get

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Speaker 1: something they wanted out of that. Ultimately they got some

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Speaker 1: substantial budget cuts and this process known as sequestration, which

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Speaker 1: really dominated the fiscal debates of the next decade with

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Speaker 1: automatic defense and the message discretionary spending cuts. But Obama

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Speaker 1: came out of that experience in tleven and basically said

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Speaker 1: never again. And in fact, as as several people involved

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Speaker 1: told me, it wasn't even that he came out of

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Speaker 1: that experience and said never again. Even as it was concluding,

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Speaker 1: he had decided never again. And in fact, in his

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Speaker 1: second term, when Republicans came back and said, okay, if

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Speaker 1: you want to raise you have to raise the dead

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Speaker 1: ceiling again. Now we're demanding more cuts and we're demanding

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Speaker 1: that you would ravel the Affordable Care Act, he refused

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Speaker 1: to negotiate with them over the dead ceiling. And eventually

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Speaker 1: in the fall the spring, and again in the Republicans

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Speaker 1: back down and under Bay they did raise it. And

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Speaker 1: that is the posture that Biden is taking now. It's

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Speaker 1: important that people understand he is not saying he won't

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Speaker 1: negotiate with them about the budget. Obviously has to do

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Speaker 1: that they control one chamber of Congress. What are he

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Speaker 1: is seeing is we are not going to negotiate with

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Speaker 1: the threat of default, you know, as the gun cocked

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Speaker 1: against our head. We are not negotiate in the context

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Speaker 1: of the dead ceiling. Raising the dead ceiling is non negotiable.

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Speaker 1: We don't want to attach anything to it. Now whether

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Speaker 1: he can hold to that all the way through with

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Speaker 1: Joe Manchon already out there saying, well, we should have

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Speaker 1: another commission like we had back then, you know, to

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Speaker 1: study deficit reduction. But that is Biden's posture. It is

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Speaker 1: inextricably rooted in his experience next to Obama. By the way,

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Speaker 1: footnote on this, Molly, that's worth noting when the second

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Speaker 1: confrontation came up in about Republicans saying, don't you know,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to raise the dead ceiling unless you

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Speaker 1: give us more cuts and roll back the affordable character.

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Speaker 1: Harry Reid, you know, the Christ and Peace, who was

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Speaker 1: then the Democratic Majority leader, went to the White House

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Speaker 1: and specifically told Obama to keep Biden away from the

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Speaker 1: negotiations because he thought he would be too willing to

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Speaker 1: cut a deal with Mitch mcconm just just an interesting fact. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it kind of shows you how far Biden

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Speaker 1: has come, you know, And even the threshold is not

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Speaker 1: really true anymore. Like back then, you know, people can

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Speaker 1: forget Obama and the key people around him thought it

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Speaker 1: was both good economics and good politics to reach a

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Speaker 1: long term deficit reduction deal that traded some cuts and

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Speaker 1: to care and Social Security for you know, tax increases.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's true anymore, either in no in

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Speaker 1: the in the Biden White House, or among Democrats in

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Speaker 1: the Senate that is, in the House that is very

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Speaker 1: much a minority position today. And and so even the

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Speaker 1: threshold that you know, Obama's threshold was, yeah, a deal

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Speaker 1: would be a good thing, and he didn't see it

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Speaker 1: as disqualifying to tie the negotiations to the debt ceiling.

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Speaker 1: Both both of those propositions I think are no longer

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Speaker 1: true among Democrats. So how this plays out. I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, Biden is betting that enough Republicans, those Republicans

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Speaker 1: we've talked about before from more competitive districts in the

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Speaker 1: end will break and in some way maybe by signing

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Speaker 1: a discharge position will pass this through the House, and

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Speaker 1: that enough Senate Republicans obviously will do so as well.

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Speaker 1: But there are gonna be a lot of white knuckle

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Speaker 1: moments between now and then. You know, there's also the

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Speaker 1: question of military spending, right yeah, well, you know, look,

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Speaker 1: I mean that was like when they made this final

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Speaker 1: deal on this horrible final weekend before the country defaulted

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Speaker 1: for the first time. The deal was that it created

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Speaker 1: a so called super committee in the House, which is

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Speaker 1: kind of what uh mansion wants now. I think that

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Speaker 1: if they could reach agreement on a plan, would be

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Speaker 1: guaranteed a floor vote on the plan. But if they

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Speaker 1: couldn't reach agreement on a plan to cut the deficit

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Speaker 1: by a little over one trillion, the fallback was what

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Speaker 1: was known as sequestration, which were automatic cuts in discretionary

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Speaker 1: domestic and defense spending, and Democrats fought that was their

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Speaker 1: fail safe because Republicans in the end would never allow

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Speaker 1: the defense spending cuts to go into effect, and to

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Speaker 1: some extent they were right because Congress did repeatedly loosen

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Speaker 1: the belt on the sequestration, and but some of it

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Speaker 1: did go into effect, and Republicans were willing to have

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Speaker 1: those cuts go on to defense. And so like probably now,

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Speaker 1: betting that defense cuts are the circuit breaker they keep

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Speaker 1: Republicans from demanding other cuts is probably a misguided hope

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Speaker 1: for Democrats. Yeah right, definitely, because also Republicans are now

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Speaker 1: they're sort of against this war in Ukraine. There the

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Speaker 1: spending on Ukraine, right, so they could easily want to

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Speaker 1: cut that. Yeah, right, So you could see Bayner is

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Speaker 1: like Lincoln compared to McCarthy. Bainer kind of accepted that

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Speaker 1: there were responsibilities, you know, I mean, and he writes

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Speaker 1: in his memoir about how much he hated the Second

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Speaker 1: Confrontation that he was just he just thought it was

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Speaker 1: ridiculous and counterproductive, and you know, the crazy Caucus and

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Speaker 1: all of that. He was all in the first time.

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Speaker 1: You know, he did go to New York and he

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Speaker 1: gave this speech in Maylen where he laid down the

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Speaker 1: bin a rule, a dollar for cuts for dollar of

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Speaker 1: more debt authorization. But yes, I mean Bainer clearly, and

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Speaker 1: Ryan even to a significant extent. So it as part

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Speaker 1: of his job to resist the demands of the far

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Speaker 1: right in the Republican ranks, and McCarthy clearly views his future,

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Speaker 1: his viability in the job as acceding to as many

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Speaker 1: of those demands as possible while leaning on the moderates

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Speaker 1: now to give in rather than trying to resist what

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Speaker 1: the right wants to do, which was more the posture

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Speaker 1: of Banter and even more the posture of Ryan. So

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Speaker 1: where do you think this goes? I guess I am

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Speaker 1: in the camp that believes default is so unpredictable and

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Speaker 1: potentially catastrophic that they will find a way to avoid it,

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Speaker 1: and that enough Republicans will sign a discharge petition to

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Speaker 1: pass a debt seiling increase in the House. But I

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Speaker 1: would guess that as part of that, Biden is going

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Speaker 1: to have to accept some kind of Simpson Bowles type thing,

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Speaker 1: you know, yet another commission to study the deficit. I

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Speaker 1: don't think he will agree to Obama did in, which

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Speaker 1: is a guaranteed, streamlined process for that to be voted on.

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Speaker 1: But I'm not sure I see even how he gets

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Speaker 1: nine votes in the Senate without some sort of fig

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Speaker 1: Leaf study group that's, you know, examining how we deal

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Speaker 1: with this and maybe if I can get enough Republicans

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Speaker 1: to just back down to get a clean debt ceiling increase,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not sure. Ron Brownstein so interesting. I hope

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Speaker 1: you will come back. Always glad to be here. Thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for having me. Susan del Perco is an

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Speaker 1: NBC political analyst and Republican strategist. Welcome, Too Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: Susan del Purcio. Great to be with you. I'm so

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Speaker 1: excited to be on your new podcast. Well, we're excited

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Speaker 1: to have you. And as I was, I was writing

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Speaker 1: my Vanity Fair thing today and yesterday, and I was

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Speaker 1: thinking about Trump being back. And it's been uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: this weekend of Trump pretending to be Jeb. I mean,

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Speaker 1: of course he's not Jeb and he still you know,

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Speaker 1: went into his autopilot autocrat. But there's certainly seems like

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Speaker 1: there's a concerted effort, uh for Trump to try to

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Speaker 1: pretend to be normal. Yeah. And Trump doesn't do normal well,

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Speaker 1: and he doesn't stay very long when he does um.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, he'll get criticized for doing

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Speaker 1: for trying to do normal because he can't do it

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Speaker 1: well and it shows, and he comes off as very

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Speaker 1: flat and not energetic. And his his weekend appearances were pathetic. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they because we're simply pathetic. They were just read off

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Speaker 1: some copy and and here's what the worst part is.

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Speaker 1: Actually it was trying to be normal and trying to

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Speaker 1: rehash the past. He wasn't even trying to say like

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna come forward and do this for you. He's like,

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Speaker 1: just stay with me because I'm really upset and I

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Speaker 1: need your support, so please be with me. Like a

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Speaker 1: little blanky. Yes, he said, he's back, and he's ang.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you have worked with Republican candidates. You were

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Speaker 1: Republican strategists. I mean, I don't know the people in

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Speaker 1: my life who were Republicans. Many of them have changed

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Speaker 1: to independence. Are you an independent? Are you still Republican? No,

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Speaker 1: I'm still a Republican. Although I asked him, I said

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Speaker 1: that question, why every every day? This is the answer.

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Speaker 1: And it's changed over the years. You know, initially like

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Speaker 1: he's not taking over my party, God damn it. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I was very defiant, and then I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: there's gotta be someone here like to at least bring

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Speaker 1: like sanity to the conversations. But it evolved, i'd say

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Speaker 1: in the last couple of years too. This is a

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Speaker 1: two party country. People may want an independent party and

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Speaker 1: other parties, but that's not how we work. If everybody

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Speaker 1: leaves the Republican Party who's frustrated with it, when it

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Speaker 1: comes back, they're not going to be so welcomed into it.

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Speaker 1: And you have to be part of bringing it up.

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Speaker 1: So I'm a Republican that hoped to see the party

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Speaker 1: burned to the ground to build it back up, but

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Speaker 1: to show it's almost like, yes, we need Republican voices

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Speaker 1: out there, even if no one's listening right now, because

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Speaker 1: I spend all this time thinking about, like, how can

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Speaker 1: there be a normal Republican party and sort of trying

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Speaker 1: to game it out in my head, and and it

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Speaker 1: seems like, I mean, this is such a great example, right.

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Speaker 1: I had one to ask David from this question, and

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Speaker 1: he said a party needs to lose three elections in

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Speaker 1: order to sort of rewrite the ship. So I thought

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Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen two that they might, but but someone

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Speaker 1: else told me no, it's three presidential elections that they

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Speaker 1: have to lose. I'm kind of in between those numbers.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I think it starts in twenty with

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the the end for the Republican Party,

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Speaker 1: and it's not going to come back to mostly be

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Speaker 1: because you not only have to presidential elections there, but

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Speaker 1: the midterms the other congressional election races. Those are where

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Speaker 1: the local people really have a voice and they start

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Speaker 1: pushing out the losers. So you lose in, you lose in,

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Speaker 1: You lose in because it will go through at least

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Speaker 1: and then maybe by like people are like enough and

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Speaker 1: the state and local organizations start recalibrating. And that's what

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Speaker 1: you know, I guess, coming from you know, building from

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Speaker 1: the down, Yeah, the low the lowliest races of city

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Speaker 1: council all the way up to the presidential level. You know,

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Speaker 1: you get to know how local politics really works and

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Speaker 1: where the shifts start to come in, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's clearly. I think the hope is that there'll be

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Speaker 1: some I know that this rn C meeting last week

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Speaker 1: was a bloodbast It's amazing because I have a friend

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Speaker 1: who called me in a rage. Oh really, yeah, because

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Speaker 1: they were harassing people. It's so interesting because Trump was

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Speaker 1: you could tell that. Like leading up to it, he

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Speaker 1: was like, I may throw Runna under the bus. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure yet, Like I could do it because I

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Speaker 1: don't like getting blamed, and maybe I could get her

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Speaker 1: to be blamed for losing, but oh gosh, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And plus other people like me, so maybe. And then

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Speaker 1: it was just it was too far. It went too

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Speaker 1: far down the pipe for it too to have a leadership,

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Speaker 1: but to have one third of the voting members say

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Speaker 1: like no, thank you, I would say, is good. But

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Speaker 1: they went for more crazy, which was the problem. Right,

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Speaker 1: And my friend said exactly that we obviously need new blood.

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Speaker 1: But but um, you know this is I mean, my

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Speaker 1: pillow guy is not going to be how it happens. No, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: It'll take rebet because again, those people who vote at

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Speaker 1: the r n C for chairman come from the state parties. Again,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna take time, but you have to be patient.

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Speaker 1: But you feel a little bit optimistic that there could

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Speaker 1: be a sort of sanity like that Emit Romney could

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Speaker 1: come back, or you know, someone like that. Oh, I

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Speaker 1: think there will sanity will return. But I think we're

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Speaker 1: maybe about halfway through as far as burning to the

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Speaker 1: ground that we need to. We have a long way

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Speaker 1: to go to really found miserb of like And that

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Speaker 1: goes to what you were about to say when I

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Speaker 1: interrupted you. So I apologize about Kevin McCarthy and this

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Speaker 1: new house that we have. Yeah, so let's talk about that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they are ready to roll with lots of investigations,

430
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 1: I mean already. I mean, I'm sure. So that's CNN

431
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: polling last week that you know, the American people are

432
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: not so interested in Hunter Biden's laptop. No, there's not,

433
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 1: and I don't think And here's the key, given the

434
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 1: way we operate now as a country versus fort example,

435
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 1: even during the Benghazi hearings, you know, almost it's almost

436
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 1: a decade ago, can you believe it? But the difference

437
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: is that people just don't buy into that kind of

438
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: stuff now, and they're already so planted into each side

439
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: that if the Republicans, if that's all they can do

440
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 1: is get into the Hunter Biden's laptop and let's say

441
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: they can put it all online and everyone can see

442
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: what's on it, and there is bad stuff on it,

443
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: no one's going to care because you haven't done anything

444
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: to govern, and they walk into this so poorly, with

445
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: such a bad look votes. The calculus that McCarthy has

446
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: made is that he has to appease the right and

447
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: the center will go along. Right the far right and

448
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: the center right will go along. But a lot of

449
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 1: these people will in fact lose their seats. I mean

450
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,719
Speaker 1: they're in very swingy districts. So I mean, do those

451
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: people eventually go like, funk this it's not for me,

452
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 1: excuse my French. Or do you think they just are like,

453
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 1: we have to appease the right. Um, it's a great question.

454
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 1: I think. You know, there were eighteen newly elected members

455
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 1: of Congress that came from Biden districts, and there's a

456
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: lot of talk about how many were from New York.

457
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 1: I'm willing to bet not including Santas, which is his

458
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 1: own problem. Don't put that aside for a moment, But

459
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 1: even Santos district, there is at least three or four

460
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 1: of those newly elected Republicans that will not win reelection.

461
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: They just won't. And it's the way it goes. It

462
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: happens in New York quite often, by the way. Republicans

463
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 1: come in at weird times where the rest of the

464
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 1: country does not as great and Republicans do well, and

465
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: then they get voted out in a presidential because of turnout.

466
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 1: And so I do think that you know, I've been

467
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 1: yelling for it. They all have the same vote. You know,

468
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 1: how many votes a member of Congress has one. It

469
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: doesn't matter if you're Matt Gates or Mike Lawler or whoever.

470
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: You only get one vote. And I've been waiting for

471
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: these eighteen to kind of form, if you will, like

472
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 1: the Democracy Caucus is what I had had in mind,

473
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 1: like they would actually do the right thing, because these

474
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: are sensible people again minus santos Um, but there and

475
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: there are others who want to do the right thing.

476
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: Now here's where it gets interesting is that McCarthy is

477
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 1: throwing out all these things. He had the anti abortion vote,

478
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: he's going to do some stupid immigration you know, order vote.

479
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: He's going to put all these really hardcore conservative votes

480
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: out there. The question is how many or for how

481
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: long will he continue to do that, because that's when

482
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: they start getting pushed back from the middle because the

483
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: Republicans that I just talked about, those eighteen plus about

484
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 1: at least another twenty are not going to vote to

485
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: default on our death. They won't do it right. Well,

486
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: that is the big that is the big, big question.

487
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: But the thing that I think is interesting, so people

488
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: will people always say when when Nancy Pelosi. By the way,

489
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: I think that McCarthy has been a walking advertisement for

490
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi, right, Like, this job is a lot harder

491
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 1: than it looks. Right. But the question I had was,

492
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: so here we have this guy who you know. One

493
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:18,439
Speaker 1: of the things that Ancy Pelosi was famous for was

494
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: she never made Democrats vote on things that might hurt

495
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: them in re election. So, for example, Medicare for all,

496
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: she never took Medicare for all. She never let it

497
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: go to the to the Congress because even though it's

498
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: a very good idea, she worried it would hurt though

499
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: was frontliners, the swingy Democrats like that it might hurt

500
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: them in their re elections. So this is like completely

501
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: contrary to exactly what McCarthy is doing. Yeah, it's interesting.

502
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: Pelosi was such, I mean, a tremendous leader. Not only

503
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: could she get the votes that were really tough through

504
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: with her very slim and equal majority to what McCarthy

505
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: is feeling with now, but she also was able to

506
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: work with the other side to know where the votes

507
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: were to let her members off the hook. She was

508
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: also known for telling her members, if you have to

509
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: run against me and make me the devil, go right ahead,

510
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: right She even like ego get in the way. Where

511
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: is McCarthy The only thing he has is his ego

512
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: because that's the only thing that's driving him to do

513
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: this job. Otherwise, wouldn't you be so embarrassed? I mean,

514
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: if you're a McCarthy, everything you've had to do for

515
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: God's freake, But he lives with Frank Lutts. Okay, so

516
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: I want to get into this for a second. Frank Lutts.

517
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you can say a lot of things about him,

518
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: but he's no dummy. I mean, so, I mean there

519
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: are people advising McCarthy who are explaining to him, Are

520
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: there or am I just delusional? No? There are people

521
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: who explain it. But the thing is is that no

522
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: one knows as best as people in those positions, if

523
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: you will, that are all based on ego, like McCarthy.

524
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: Carthy listens, yes, but he still thinks he knows better.

525
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: Right right, So you can surround yourself with really smart

526
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: people and maybe do one or two smart things, but

527
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: it won't stop you from blowing yourself up if you're

528
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: convinced this is the only way I can get from

529
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: here to there. Right, So it's Ego we are in

530
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: this weird run up. There's one declared Republican candidate right now.

531
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: His name is Donald Trump. He's very curious, and everyone

532
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: trying to run against him. I mean, where does that go?

533
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: I mean, do you think he ends up being the nominee?

534
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: I actually don't think he'll appear on a ballot. Interesting.

535
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: I don't say he's not going to run because he's announced,

536
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: so that therefore he's running, But I don't think he

537
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: will be running long enough to have his name on

538
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: a natural ballot. So I've been let that way for

539
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: a while. For there's a whole host of reasons. His

540
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: legal troubles are going to start catching up with him.

541
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: Poles are starting to move against him. And it's not

542
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: if he can't be number one. He doesn't want it,

543
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: and more importantly, he doesn't want to lose. And that

544
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: fear of losing is what will probably be the biggest

545
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: driver again going to Ego, because there's no way he wins.

546
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: He can't moderate enough not only is it not in

547
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: his personnel, but literally he can't do it. There's no

548
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: room for him to change. But the problem is that

549
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: reality of plotting the field is still there. It is.

550
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: And yet that's what Donald Trump was betting on. Put

551
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: my name in early. It'll stop people from running, or

552
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: they'll just be speculations. So there really won't be much

553
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: of a field if for some reason it works that

554
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 1: I want to run. But the point was just to

555
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: shut everyone else out. And here's the thing he's not

556
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: and he didn't because Ron de Santis has not stopped

557
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: the whisper campaign, he's amplified it. Nicki Haley probably jumps

558
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: in now whether what you think of these two individuals,

559
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: you know, we'll put aside. But the fact is is

560
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: that they're going to get more attention and they're gonna

561
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: be talking about what's happening in the future. And Donald

562
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: Trump is going to be like, well, there's nothing without me. Okay,

563
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: well what are you gonna do for me? Donald? It

564
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: does seem to me like he's just so unable to

565
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: stay on message that that is going to hurt him.

566
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: And I also think like the novelty of him is

567
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: gone absolutely and I actually think one of the reasons

568
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: why he hasn't done the rallies is because his lawyers

569
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: are petrified of him just going on. You know, he

570
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: doesn't just do a typical speech or rally. He goes

571
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: on for an hour with all these gripes and who

572
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: knows what he's going to say when he gets on,

573
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: you know, in his group. So I think that's one

574
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: of the reasons. And people are tired of him people,

575
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: and that's why I think that the problem with like

576
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,959
Speaker 1: Biden has a problem to people are tired of all

577
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: of this. They want to put twenty six behind them.

578
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: They're happy that Biden's there in that he's steadied the ship.

579
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: But I think people want to look forward. Yeah, I mean,

580
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: I think that's right. I continue, though, to wonder if

581
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,959
Speaker 1: you're I mean, I think there's certainly a hunger for that.

582
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of things in this Republican Party,

583
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: for example, that sort of Trump has I'm trying to

584
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,719
Speaker 1: pivot to match Slap and Seapack Sea Pack is coming up.

585
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: Match Lap has these allegations, there's tape. I mean, what

586
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: are we doing here? I mean, does he just get

587
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: to keep Sea pap because nobody cares. You know, what

588
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: the heck is seapack Anyway, Kelly and Conboy did get

589
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: one thing right when she went there right after Trump's win.

590
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: It's Trump pack, it's tea pack. It's not conservative pack.

591
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: This is nowhere close to what you used to see

592
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: back in the day years ago when I started in

593
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: the business, seapack. I mean, I think it wasn't a

594
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: big fan, but it was like not it was actually

595
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: conservative values moving forward and I and actually a place

596
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: for ideas. Seepack now is just a Trump circus, and

597
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 1: it's not surprising that one of its leaders find themselves

598
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: in trouble. And so what is seapack? I mean seriously, like,

599
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 1: I don't even know who cares to go to it anymore.

600
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: People look like the Marjorie Taylor Greens of the world

601
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: and Ghostart want to go to like the like. So

602
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 1: who's going to see pack? Right, No, I mean it's

603
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: a it's a very good question. Jesse is texting me.

604
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: Then Matt Slap actually said they are not conservatives. They

605
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:43,439
Speaker 1: are people who are in love with the founding of America. Okay,

606
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: all right, I'm certainly not going anymore. I think the

607
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,720
Speaker 1: hope for a lot of the more sane Republicans left

608
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,280
Speaker 1: is that there'll be some kind of reckoning, right absolutely,

609
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,720
Speaker 1: And like I said, it'll take the party to burn down.

610
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: It just it won't be small little improvements that you're

611
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: gonna say, oh, we're a little bit better, We're a

612
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: little bit better. It's going to have to be a

613
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: complete utter failure at the electoral level, which is probably

614
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 1: going to be. And I would say, with the exception

615
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: of I think the Senate will flip to Republican just

616
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: because of the map. I know everyone said, how could

617
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: the Republicans lose this time? But there were at least

618
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: a few swing states in play. But there's too many

619
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: seats in play with too many incumbents. Like if Tester

620
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 1: doesn't run, who wins Montana? Like what Democrat wins run?

621
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: No one, do we think Tester is not running? I

622
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,479
Speaker 1: thought Tester was running. He may but like I'm just saying,

623
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: the point is is that, like there's only a handful

624
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,239
Speaker 1: in West Virginia. I mean, yeah, he's just gonna say

625
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: Mansion does he run as a Republican? Completely doable. I

626
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: don't think Mangin can runs because Jim Justice is thinking

627
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: about running right, But you know it all happened until

628
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: it's it's all happening until it's not happening, right exactly. No,

629
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,439
Speaker 1: I mean the map is really bad. So you are

630
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: a New York Republican and so this is really your wheelhouse.

631
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: Why did Democrats have such a bad showing a New

632
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: York State? Two reasons. One was the maps that the

633
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: Democrats proposed were so ridiculous, and that was because of

634
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: Sean Patrick Maloney, and let's put the blame there. He

635
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: wanted it to go even further. Jerry nandered. So when

636
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 1: the maps went to the courts, of course they got

637
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: overturned because they were so bad. The second thing is

638
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: is turnout in New York State was abysmal by the Democrats.

639
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: Republicans were jazzed up, which normally doesn't matter, but Democrats

640
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 1: did not show up. Everyone made a big deal about

641
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,439
Speaker 1: Kathy Hope. Oh my god, six points in a ten

642
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 1: million dollars given to Lee's Eldon. You know what, Letitia

643
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 1: James ran against the repulsion that didn't have bust. She

644
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: ran against someone who didn't have bus there, and she

645
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 1: won by eight points. Four years ago, she won by

646
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: twenty seven points nothing changed except for Republican turnout. But

647
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: more importantly, Democrats didn't show up. They just did. The

648
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: numbers were not there, and that's what the Democrats have

649
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 1: to fear. In states like New York and other places

650
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: like people are not showing up. Yeah, that's so interesting.

651
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. She's in del per c O.

652
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: I hope you'll come back, of course, absolutely, thank you.

653
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: I know you, our dear listeners are very busy and

654
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: you don't have time to sort through the hundreds of

655
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: pieces of pundentry each week. This is why every week

656
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 1: I put together a newsletter of my five favorite articles

657
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: on politics. If you enjoy the podcast, you will love

658
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: having this in your inbox every Friday. So sign up

659
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 1: at Fast Politics pod dot com and click the tab

660
00:37:54,040 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: to join our mailing list. That's Fast politics pod dot com.

661
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,720
Speaker 1: Danielle Allen is a contributing columnist at The Washington Post.

662
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,919
Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Danielle Allen. Thank you, Molly, glad

663
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: to be here with you. I'm very excited to have

664
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: you because it's a very interesting project that is something

665
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: that is greatly needed. So explain to us what you're

666
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: doing at the Washington Post. The short of it is.

667
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: I think we all know a lot of us are

668
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 1: pretty frustrated, anxious, depressed about the state of our politics.

669
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: I've been in a state of high alert about our

670
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 1: democracy for a decade, going back even longer, for a

671
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: lot of reasons things happening to. My family lost a

672
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: cousin in two thousand nine, which is real life turning

673
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: point before me. So I've been thinking a lot about

674
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: why is it that our democracy feels like it's not

675
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: delivering for us right now? Why does it feel so

676
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: much understrained, so fragile. And that has led me into

677
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: a project that I call a project of democracy renovation.

678
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: Think of our democracy, our institutions as a house. We

679
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: all limited together, and you know, we're a heck of

680
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: a lot bigger, has a family, and more complex than

681
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,720
Speaker 1: used to be. The systems aren't fit for purpose anymore.

682
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: The house was never built for everybody. Some people had

683
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: you know, beautiful rooms with a view. Others were stuck

684
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: in gloomy basements, and so we've got to address that.

685
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 1: And then there are other features of the house that

686
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 1: have just been you know, sort of pillars and foundations

687
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: knocked out from under us by transformation. For example, the

688
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 1: transformation of social media. So I think we have a

689
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 1: lot of deferred maintenance basically on our democracy, and so

690
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: I'm spending my year for the Washington Post trying to

691
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: lay out things that we can do to renovate our

692
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: shared house, our democracy, so that it works for us

693
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: in the twenty one century. So you're a political theorist

694
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: at Harvard, can you explain to our listeners what that is?

695
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 1: I feel like that's a real basic question. But like

696
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: my dad, you know, just for whoever doesn't totally now,

697
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:57,919
Speaker 1: of course no, I mean, it's not an obvious thing.

698
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: So I am in a political science to print, and

699
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 1: so there are a whole lot of people who study politics,

700
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: But that doesn't actually mean, you know, studying politics the

701
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: way you read about it in the newspaper. It's not

702
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,240
Speaker 1: about tracking the horse race in the election or something

703
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: like that. It's more about trying to understand the deeper

704
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: phenomena that are affecting why our politics operates the way

705
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: it does. And then, in my case, I'm also a

706
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 1: political philosopher. That means I really ask questions not just

707
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,879
Speaker 1: about how things work and why they work, but also

708
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 1: what should we do, how should they work, um, what

709
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: are the positive visions we should pursue. So political philosophers,

710
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: for example, think about theories of justice. There is a fairness,

711
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: there is a freedom, theories of equality, and we ask

712
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: a question, Okay, these ideals are worthy, how do we

713
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: actually make them real in the world. So this feels

714
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 1: like an impossible, impossible feat where do you start? Well,

715
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 1: you know, first of all, we've got to remember that

716
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,919
Speaker 1: it's not impossible, and in some sense, you know, our

717
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: history is a history of people carrying out toocracy renovations.

718
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: There was the first really big one, known as the

719
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: Constitutional Convention. It's fair to say that all those folks

720
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: who helped design the Constitution were political theorists. For example,

721
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: they thought about the how and the why and the what.

722
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: But they also had a goal. You know, they were

723
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 1: trying to achieve effective governance. They had a banking crisis,

724
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: a Congress that couldn't form a quorum, they couldn't deal

725
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,439
Speaker 1: with their wartime debt, and so forth. It was really

726
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: those issues that provoked the Constitutional Convention, and they literally

727
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: re engineered the systems of their government in order to

728
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: make sure it worked. Of course, we re engineered again

729
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: after the Civil War, in the early twentieth century. A

730
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: lot of re engineering happened then and what was known

731
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: as that sort of progressive era, where that was when

732
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: we got direct collection of senators, for example, and not

733
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: having them be picked by the state legislatures anymore. It's

734
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: when women got the right to vote. So we have

735
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: had big periods of democracy renovation, and I believe we're

736
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: due for another one. And what would that look like exactly?

737
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: So there are a lot of pieces and parts of this,

738
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 1: and I was fortunate to coachair a commit shim that

739
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,920
Speaker 1: did work on this. It was sponsored by an organization

740
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: called the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. This is

741
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 1: a super old organization's older than the country. It was

742
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 1: founded by the same people who led the revolution. And

743
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: what they wanted to do is assemble what they at

744
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: the time called you, all the members of the learned professions,

745
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,959
Speaker 1: so doctors and lawyers and ministers and professors and so forth,

746
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 1: who were asked to always sort of stand by as

747
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: a knowledge body that could help the new country figure

748
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: its way through problems. So we did a lot of

749
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 1: work on the strain and our democracy, and we have

750
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: a report with about thirty one recommendations. So it's a

751
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: lot of things, and some of them are federal, some

752
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: of them are at the state level. If I just

753
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: started the federal level. For me, one of my favorites

754
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 1: of the thirty one recommendations is the idea that it

755
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: is time to uncap the House of Representatives. Oh. Interesting,

756
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: the House was supposed to grow, you know, over time,

757
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: and it hasn't grown for about a century. It seems

758
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: like something that would be a hard cell to Republicans,

759
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: but certainly was the original idea. It was the original

760
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: idea exactly every ten year census, the House was supposed

761
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: to grow again. We've actually done a lot of modeling

762
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: on what it would mean to just play due deferred

763
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: maintenance and grow it as if if we had stayed

764
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: growing at the same sort of apportionment rate as had

765
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: been historically the norm, we would currently be at about

766
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: five and eighty five members. We've done a lot of

767
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: modeling on that it does not actually obviously result in

768
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,479
Speaker 1: benefit to either party, So there may be a little

769
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 1: window of possibility where we could actually get this through. Ooh,

770
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 1: that's so interesting, And what states would benefit from this

771
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,280
Speaker 1: well to some extent, you know, as you might imagine

772
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: the bigger states with the bigger populations wouldst for California exactly. Yeah.

773
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: But the other thing it would do is it would

774
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: flow through to the electoral college. So the electoral college

775
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: is was designed to be waited in favor of less

776
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: populous states, But the numbers in the college electoral college

777
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: flow directly from the size of the House. So one

778
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: of the reasons the electoral ledge is so badly out

779
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: of whack right now is because we haven't grown the

780
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: house for a century. So that's really interesting. Can you

781
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 1: give me one other really interesting suggestion, you guys said, sure. So,

782
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: you know, we look at the Supreme Court and it's

783
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 1: very clear that the longevity of justices has politicized that body.

784
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: It means that, you know, the selection of Supreme Court

785
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: justices is now sort of the number one issue in

786
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: a presidential election. I think it's really important to de

787
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: politicize the court, and we think that the most important

788
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 1: way of doing that is by achieving term limits for

789
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: Supreme Court justices. They don't need to serve for life,

790
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 1: they could serve for eighteen years. There's a little bit

791
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: of debate about whether this could be done merely through

792
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: the rules of the judiciary. With the sort of transfer

793
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: of justices to another court in the federal judiciary, they

794
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: can stay in the system for life, but needn't stand

795
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,280
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court for life. Um, that's one possibility. Others

796
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: think maybe it would require a constitutional amendment, but whatever

797
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,359
Speaker 1: the case, eighteen years with then you'd have a kind

798
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,439
Speaker 1: of routine beat of justices rotating on and off. Every

799
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: president would get basically the same number of justices to

800
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: a point, and in principle, that would help deep politicize

801
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 1: the court. Yeah, do you feel like there's an appetite

802
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: for this stuff? I mean, I certainly am all in

803
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: on it, but I'm just curious since you've been on this. Sure,

804
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: I mean, there's definitely an appetite in among us, you know,

805
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: Americans broadly across the country. If I hear your question right,

806
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: I'm hearing a question about politicians and could we actually

807
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,760
Speaker 1: gets done? Yes. So I think that's a really important point,

808
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: and it matters in some sense. There's kind of like

809
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:39,879
Speaker 1: an order of operations you have to think about here.

810
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: Probably we're not likely to get Congress to do these

811
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: things right up front, so it's really important to remember

812
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: that power over how members of Congress get elected lies

813
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: in the states. So in every state we can do

814
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 1: what Alaska just did, for example, change the election method.

815
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: Nevada just voted as well for an approach with a

816
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: nonpartisan primary for ranked choice right believen. More importantly than

817
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: that is shifting away from a partisan primary to what

818
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: you might call it a preliminary where you've got all

819
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: comers and you take the top four or five candidates

820
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: on and yes, instant runoff in the general election. But

821
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: it's really that switch away from the party primary structure

822
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: that is the importance of opening up. It means candidates

823
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: would have to campaign to the general electorate all the

824
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: way through the process. That's what would generate different dynamics

825
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 1: in incentives for elected officials. That's really interesting. Do you

826
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 1: think that's feasible. I mean, certainly it's it is happening

827
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 1: so that and it's Nevada is is a swing state,

828
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: but Alaska is very brad Yeah. I mean this is

829
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: a mechanism that is beneficial again in both red and

830
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: blue context. So when I talk about toxic renovation, I

831
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: am not talking about this in a partisan way. I

832
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: am talking about what I think we need to have

833
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: institutions that are responsive to the people, that can get

834
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 1: us past gridlock to effective steering so that we can

835
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 1: solve the urgent problems that we collectively share. Do you

836
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,320
Speaker 1: want to talk a little bit about your about because sure,

837
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: I mean I said, I've had a sense of urgency

838
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: about our democracy for a long time, and that does

839
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: really come from basic family experiences. You know. The first

840
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: part of that is I have come by as sort

841
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 1: of commitment to democracy totally honestly, just as a matter

842
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: of family inheritance. You know, my granddad helped found one

843
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: of the first end of l A c. P Chapters

844
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 1: in northern Florida in the forties, which was just super

845
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,439
Speaker 1: dangerous for and then on my mom's side, my great

846
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: grandparents helped fight for women's right to vote in the

847
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 1: early twentieth century. So my greatgrandmother was president of the

848
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: Legal Women Voters in Michigan in the thirties. So dangerous, yeah, exactly,

849
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: not not quite the same level, but through amount of

850
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 1: insanity for sure, right, yes, for sure. So that kind

851
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: of commit been to empowerment was just sort of part

852
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: of the air and water that I breathed growing up.

853
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,399
Speaker 1: And so democracy didn't really become personal to me until

854
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 1: I just watched my own generational cohort come up in

855
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: the world. And whereas my parents generation everybody came up,

856
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 1: that wasn't true for my generation. For my generation, it

857
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,720
Speaker 1: was really what I call the great pulling apart. So

858
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 1: you know, some of us had amazing opportunities. Here I

859
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 1: sit tenure and professor at Harvard. I believe there's no

860
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: more privileged position in the world from the point of

861
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: view of freedom and security. But at the same time,

862
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: I've got dead cousins, and not in a way you

863
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: can feel good about, so homicide and substance use disorder

864
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: and things like that. So because it's my book about

865
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 1: one of my cousins, my baby cousin, Michael. Michael was

866
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: killed in two thousand nine. He was shot and killed.

867
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 1: He had spent a long time in prison. He had

868
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: gone to prison at the age of fifteen on a

869
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 1: first arrest in southern California for an attempted carjacking. This

870
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: was a terrible thing to have done, obviously, but it

871
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: was also a time when punishment in California was at

872
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: its most intense. So Michael got a sentence of twelve

873
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: years and eight months and serve most of that, so

874
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:03,760
Speaker 1: it only had two years out at the point that

875
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 1: he was again shot and killed by somebody he had

876
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 1: met while he was in prison. So that sort of

877
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 1: changed everything for me. Really, all the work I had

878
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: already been doing on democracy, it came to sort of

879
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: pull it to a focus on justice reform. But I

880
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: quickly came to understand that even where we had bipartisan

881
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: solutions for problems, it was really hard to get them

882
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: through because of the dysfunction of our politics. So that's

883
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 1: what brought my attention then to our democracy. Um, you know,

884
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: we need that democracy renovation in order to do some

885
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: of the really important things we all need to do

886
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: for our communities. I feel like criminal justice reform is

887
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: a part of this, It's a part of it, for sure.

888
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: And also being able to address the urgent problems in

889
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: the economy, you know, real sort of stalling out of

890
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 1: mobility for a whole lot of people, the fact that

891
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: so many people can't find a footing in the labor

892
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 1: market in the sense of good jobs, jobs that are

893
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: only sustaining jobs that permit a sort of thriving life. Um,

894
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 1: there's work out there, but a lot of it really

895
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 1: alienating or exploitative in various ways. So right now, you know,

896
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 1: our society is kind of scaling up and getting ever

897
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 1: more complex, and we're not actually dealing with that in

898
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: ways that give people a foundation for flourishing in their communities.

899
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:26,280
Speaker 1: And that's about criminal justice. It's about safety from violence

900
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: for you know, all people need that safety. I mean

901
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: that's not just about crimes, but violence generally in our culture.

902
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,760
Speaker 1: And you know, we just while watched what's happened in Memphis,

903
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: you know, this past period of time. So there's a

904
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:41,839
Speaker 1: lot that we need to do on our own. Palf Yeah,

905
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: so important and so interesting. Do you think there's anything

906
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 1: sort of solid that the Biden administration can do? Now?

907
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: A lot of this is on the federal, but do

908
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: you have any you know, sort of recommendations for them.

909
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,279
Speaker 1: You know, this is a slightly different direction, but I

910
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 1: think that there are a lot of really important oportunities

911
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: in the work they've just done passing the Inflation Reduction Act,

912
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,800
Speaker 1: for instance, So that is going to require an awful

913
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 1: lot of proactive coordination across the different levels of our

914
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 1: federal system, so federal, state, county, and municipal and I

915
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: think that is actually a real opportunity to you know,

916
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 1: strengthen and make much healthier. How all those different jurisdictional

917
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 1: levels are working together, can we find a kind of

918
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: harmonizing approach. I talk about aspirational federalism a lot. I

919
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 1: think the Biden administration actually has a real opportunity to

920
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: show us, you know, a really different way that we

921
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 1: can go about putting the puzzle pieces together and becoming

922
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: a country where we can actually get things done with

923
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 1: a sense of common purpose. Yeah. No, it definitely seems

924
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 1: like that. You still teach undergrads, right ye undergrads and

925
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: graduate students yea, the whole gamut. I mean, are you

926
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,799
Speaker 1: seeing anything that we should know that's hopeful that will

927
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 1: make us less depressed? No pressure, Well, I mean let me,

928
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 1: I am full, but let me first just at the

929
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 1: context a little bit. I mean, you're right, my students

930
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: right now, there is a lot of fear, a lot

931
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: of anger, a lot of anxiety. Those are the emotions

932
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: that they register. I do little surveys even at the

933
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,320
Speaker 1: start of class about things, and those are the emotions

934
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 1: that came out at the start of this semester for sure.

935
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: So I can't pretend that there's a kind of you know,

936
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: joyful wave about to ascend. At the same time, though,

937
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: I am hopeful, I said, I've been working in this

938
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: space of democracy renovation for about a decade now, and

939
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 1: my total red alert went off in when Congress had

940
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:39,359
Speaker 1: at nine approval rating. So from my point of view,

941
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: honestly my estimates, we're about halfway through a really bad store.

942
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 1: I think we've got another decade to go. It's a

943
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 1: long time, but I actually think we're halfway through. And

944
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 1: the reason I think that is because I can see

945
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: so many people all over the country at the grassroots

946
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:01,760
Speaker 1: level working at democracy renovation at every level, city level,

947
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 1: you know, where people are working on things like participatory budgeting,

948
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: or bringing in rank choice voting so that you have

949
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 1: more inclusion, or people participating, you know, the effort to

950
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:14,800
Speaker 1: really achieve high levels of voter registration and voter participation.

951
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: I mean, there is a lot of renovation work going

952
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,919
Speaker 1: on all over the country, and that wasn't really true

953
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 1: a decade ago. So that in itself is enough to

954
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 1: tell me we're headed in the right direction. Oh Okay,

955
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 1: now we have to end because this was hopeful and

956
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: that never happens. So we have to end now because

957
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: we never get a hopeful moment here. I hope you

958
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:37,839
Speaker 1: will come back. Thank you such an important voice. And

959
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 1: also you have a really interesting perspective in in this,

960
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 1: and I think to get some I feel like we're

961
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 1: so in it and we never sort of pull back

962
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 1: to have high level thinkers in here to sort of

963
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: explain the philosophical So this is really helpful, at least

964
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 1: to me anyway. Well, I'm glad to hear that. Anything

965
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 1: I can do to be helpful, glad to do it.

966
00:53:57,960 --> 00:53:59,720
Speaker 1: And it's been a pleasure to talk with you. Molly.

967
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 1: Thank you, Molly Jung Fast Jesse Cannon. That carry Lake woman,

968
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 1: a woman who clearly has a writer that says she

969
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 1: cannot go anywhere without perfect lighting or a filter on

970
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: her zoom. She's in a little trouble I here. So

971
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 1: she wanted to be governor, but instead she's going to

972
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: be investigated. The request from Arizona Secretary of State comes

973
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 1: after Lake posted a tweet on January that made an

974
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: unfounded claim that there were forty thou ballots that didn't

975
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 1: match voter signatures that the state had on record. Lake

976
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:47,399
Speaker 1: posted a graphic that showed sixteen voters studentatures alleging that

977
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: they didn't match with what Arizona had on file. Look,

978
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 1: this is going to keep happening until a stop is

979
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 1: put to it, and so it is really important that

980
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,239
Speaker 1: people who believe in Democrats see stand up for it.

981
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 1: There's very few little to look forward to in the future.

982
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 1: But the one thing I look forward to in the

983
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 1: future is carry running against Reuben Diego and him having

984
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 1: to remind her that she ran even behind blake Masters

985
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:17,959
Speaker 1: in some of the districts that she lost. Well, we could,

986
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,759
Speaker 1: I think we could see a Blake Master's Carrie leg

987
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 1: Reuben Diego Kirsten cinema deathmatch. One of those fools is

988
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: going to step up to the plate. Yeah, and for that,

989
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: but she is our moment of gray. That's it for

990
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 1: this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday

991
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 1: and Friday to hear the best minds in politics makes

992
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,320
Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard,

993
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

994
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.