WEBVTT - Ep. 551: LiveTour02

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<v Speaker 1>This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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<v Speaker 1>bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't predict any of this. The Meat Eater Podcast

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<v Speaker 2>is brought to you by First Light. Whether you're checking

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<v Speaker 2>trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting for el, First

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<v Speaker 2>Light has performance apparel to support every hunter in every environment.

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<v Speaker 2>Check it out at first light dot com. F I

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<v Speaker 2>R S T L I T E dot com. Dude,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm up to my neck and nostalgia right now being

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<v Speaker 2>here Cal you're feeling it?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, Missoula, Missoula guy for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Is the reason you can't put that on your head?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, because I'm supposed to bequeued up to record Clay

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<v Speaker 3>on the guitar.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh well, putting it on for a second.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, who's doing the runner show?

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<v Speaker 2>How long is it gonna take you to put on?

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<v Speaker 2>There we go.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm just trying to be very respectful to our guys

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<v Speaker 3>who are editing these things. We're like, don't touch the

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<v Speaker 3>idem microphone.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, well I can tell you that that guys

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<v Speaker 4>is me. Yes, and this is a special special case,

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<v Speaker 4>go ahead and touch the mic I.

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<v Speaker 2>Spent I mean I lived here for almost a decade.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, just just this building alone, the Wilma a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of We could do an entire podcast based off

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<v Speaker 3>of experiences had in and around the Wilma Theater.

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<v Speaker 2>I have spent nights in this building, as have I. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I had an older girlfriend that lived above us. Ye

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<v Speaker 2>right now, she doesn't know that right now, but she

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<v Speaker 2>did live there right now. And back in those days

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<v Speaker 2>they didn't have a regular elevator. There was an elevator man.

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<v Speaker 2>This is in the late nineties. There was an elevator

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<v Speaker 2>man that had to operate the elevator with a throw switch.

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<v Speaker 2>His name was Scoot and Newton. And anytime if you

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<v Speaker 2>came in at two in the morning, after the bars closed,

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<v Speaker 2>you'd knock on Scoot and Newton's door. He slept in

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<v Speaker 2>his Chuck Taylor's. He would come out and do the

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<v Speaker 2>out deliver you to your floor. And the hydraulics were

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<v Speaker 2>a little weird in the elevator, so it'd always settle

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<v Speaker 2>and Scoot and Newton would like he'd overshoot the room.

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<v Speaker 2>He'd play the settle, he'd overshoot the room, throw the switch,

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<v Speaker 2>and he'd always be looking at that crack.

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<v Speaker 5>A man who knows his equipment.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he'd always be looking at that crack, and you

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<v Speaker 2>could tell that he'd like to just layer in there,

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<v Speaker 2>right flush, That's right.

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<v Speaker 3>It wasn't about customer satisfaction. It was just about him

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<v Speaker 3>being pro at his game.

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<v Speaker 2>Yep. I'm sure there's probably like weather changes would throw

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<v Speaker 2>that thing off, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but an old building.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And then I saw Steve Earle here. Oh cool.

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<v Speaker 2>In my Buffalo book, I talk about a guy a

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<v Speaker 2>very pinnacle like a like a a major player, kind

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<v Speaker 2>of a major player in Buffalo restoration. The animal Recovery

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<v Speaker 2>of the species drank himself to death under the bridge

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<v Speaker 2>that we're under right now. When I was working on

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<v Speaker 2>my first book, Scavenger's Gude to Oak Cuisine, the pigeons

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<v Speaker 2>I was raising I caught under this bridge. We'd come

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<v Speaker 2>down here with a extension ladder at night, hoping not

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<v Speaker 2>get trouble with the cops, and catch pigeons and collect

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<v Speaker 2>eggs under here and raise them. Not far from here,

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<v Speaker 2>the crayfish in that book came from under this bridge.

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<v Speaker 2>One time I was walking over this bridge and saw

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<v Speaker 2>a bike in the river and rode that bike for

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<v Speaker 2>years until someone stole it. Get this at this building. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I found it one hundred yards from here and lost

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<v Speaker 2>it twenty yards from here. I had two.

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<v Speaker 3>Buddies that decided it would be a great idea, like

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<v Speaker 3>the best idea ever to have rooms in this building,

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<v Speaker 3>and then like very quickly decided that being in such

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<v Speaker 3>tight proximity to all the bars and stuff was actually

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<v Speaker 3>in fact a bad idea to live in this building.

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<v Speaker 3>So they vacated pretty quick, but they lived here. And

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<v Speaker 3>then my high school, Hellgate High School, we used to

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<v Speaker 3>do like cleanups for you know civil service type of

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<v Speaker 3>days that were always right down here, cleaning up you know,

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<v Speaker 3>trash and all that stuff. The playground. I got some

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<v Speaker 3>dirty stories about that playground, but the clean ones, it

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<v Speaker 3>was like we came down and helped, like it was

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<v Speaker 3>like a habitat for humanity project or something that we

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<v Speaker 3>chipped in and built part of that playground through the

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<v Speaker 3>high school and then yeah, bartended it at Red's and

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<v Speaker 3>Missoula Club, which is you know, stone's throw from here Cow.

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<v Speaker 2>The first night I ever spent in Montana, I came

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<v Speaker 2>in from the way, like my brother Danny was doing

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<v Speaker 2>a job working on a salmon project on a walla

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<v Speaker 2>wall of Washington. He was working on like a snake river.

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<v Speaker 3>The city is so nice?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that what it is?

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<v Speaker 3>They named it twice?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, oh, okay, is it what river's right there? Is

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<v Speaker 2>that the same? Yea, no, no, no, it's the salmon Anyways,

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<v Speaker 2>he was working on a salmon project there. I was

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<v Speaker 2>still finishing up regular college in Michigan. I flew out here,

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<v Speaker 2>me and him went fishing all over Hell. We fished

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<v Speaker 2>the Saint Joe's. Uh fished. We fished the court Lane.

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<v Speaker 2>We fishing Courtlane around there and went we fished the

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<v Speaker 2>Saint Joe's. Came in a ninety from the west, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>And I just remember like kind of like entering this town.

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<v Speaker 2>And we decided to stop here for the night. And

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<v Speaker 2>we first thing we did was we went to this

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<v Speaker 2>place that later became like appears like a bar pizza joint. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>we found a hotel and we got a steep discount

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<v Speaker 2>because some dudes had changed the oil of their motorcycle.

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<v Speaker 2>In the hotel. There was a motel and there was

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<v Speaker 2>a there was an oil stain the size of a

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<v Speaker 2>bushel basket that sounds like the thunderbird and they gave

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<v Speaker 2>us like they let us have it for next to nothing.

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<v Speaker 2>They're like, well, we have a room, but we're not

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<v Speaker 2>letting it out because these assholes were changing their motorcycles

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<v Speaker 2>oil in the room and spilled it over. But you

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<v Speaker 2>guys could take the room and got for next to nothing.

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<v Speaker 2>Went down to that like pizza joint bar. I can't, oh, Rhino?

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<v Speaker 3>Did the Rhino have pizza?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't remember. Maybe later became Pete, went to the Rhino,

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<v Speaker 2>went to Charlie Bees, where I wound up spending like

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<v Speaker 2>years of my life. Went to Charlie Be's. I remember

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<v Speaker 2>seeing like there was a lot of girls there that

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<v Speaker 2>had like h like scabs on their elbows and knees,

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<v Speaker 2>like hard hitting rafting guides right, And I thought, man,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna come to school here. And I'm not kidding

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<v Speaker 2>you because I was fixing to go to graduate school.

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<v Speaker 2>Went down to the university this is like in the summer,

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<v Speaker 2>walked all around and got a pamphlet. I mean I

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<v Speaker 2>got a pamphlet simpler times. Yeah, I got a pamphlet

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<v Speaker 2>from the school in a building that I later got

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<v Speaker 2>a job scrubbing the toilets in. When I first got

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<v Speaker 2>into school and at that point forward pretty much had

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<v Speaker 2>my mind fixed on moving to this town and all

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<v Speaker 2>those adventures, right, like this is all happening like right here.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, just just something clicked with you.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like one last thing.

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<v Speaker 3>Missoula was way different.

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<v Speaker 2>Way different. It was crazy.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Well, when the town changed a bunch as like

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<v Speaker 3>the mills shut down because there was actually like shift

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<v Speaker 3>work going on. And this isn't like a point of

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<v Speaker 3>pride or anything. But you know, people would probably think

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<v Speaker 3>I'm lying if I was like, well, yeah, there was

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<v Speaker 3>a strip club on main Street, like the main strip

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<v Speaker 3>of downtown stores.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, delt Poker, right, Brains and Eggs.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, people would be like, no, that doesn't know, No,

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<v Speaker 3>next to the wine bar. Yeah, you know, yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 3>just weird, weird.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. What was that place called? I've been in there.

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<v Speaker 3>The Oxford is still there.

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<v Speaker 2>No, they had the club, the Gentleman's Club.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and I can't remember the name of it at

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<v Speaker 3>this point either. But Von Richter, my old manager at

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<v Speaker 3>Red's Bar, uh, that's where he started bartending, was down there.

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<v Speaker 2>One of my one of my pinnacle moments as a writer.

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<v Speaker 2>I was living I was living on the other side

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<v Speaker 2>of the river more towards the university from here, and

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<v Speaker 2>I had just done this deal where I'd been up

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<v Speaker 2>bear hunting up on the north fork of the Flathead,

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<v Speaker 2>and we're coming back, and like it was so weird.

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<v Speaker 2>There'd been a big burn, it was called the Moose Fire,

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<v Speaker 2>and there's just trucks lined up and down the road,

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<v Speaker 2>trucks and campers and stuff. There's a lot of glacier traffic, right, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>what's going on? I remember guys like me mells shiploads,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was just like unlike one of those burn

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<v Speaker 2>sprouts or just you couldn't even comprehend the amount of morals.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember there was a moose track, like a moose

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<v Speaker 2>had come through that burn after and when it was

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<v Speaker 2>kind of wet and sooty, and a moose had come

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<v Speaker 2>through that burn and whatever his tracks had like done

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<v Speaker 2>something magical to the ash and compressed it in some way. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and track full of morels, Yeah, morels everywhere. And so

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<v Speaker 2>I came home and there was a very influential it's

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<v Speaker 2>still around, but at the time, the New Yorker magazine

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<v Speaker 2>was like a super influential magazine, and I had like

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<v Speaker 2>I knew some guys that I met through school that

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<v Speaker 2>wrote there, and one of Ian Fraser was like, you

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<v Speaker 2>should do a talk of the town. These things, these

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<v Speaker 2>like little news bits in the front of the New

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<v Speaker 2>Yorker which were prestigious. Then it's like, you should do

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<v Speaker 2>a talk of the town on fires and morals. And

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<v Speaker 2>I couldn't. And I knew I had a deadline, like

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<v Speaker 2>it had to be immediate, right, And I dropped everything

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<v Speaker 2>and I worked on that thing like no one had

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<v Speaker 2>It's at talk of the Town is eight hundred words.

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<v Speaker 2>I worked on that all like like twelve hours a day,

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<v Speaker 2>sixteen hours a day, whatever it was. It took me three.

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<v Speaker 6>Weeks because I knew I had a chance, and I

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<v Speaker 6>knew they were interested in seeing it. It took me

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<v Speaker 6>three weeks crippling anxiety or and the only break I

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<v Speaker 6>would take, I'm not kidding you, is we would go in.

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<v Speaker 6>We would go in and we could.

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<v Speaker 2>Walk down kind of like go on one angle from

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<v Speaker 2>our house and jump into the Clark Fork River with

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<v Speaker 2>an inner tube. It was hot that summer, and you

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<v Speaker 2>could float through town and cool off and swim and

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<v Speaker 2>whatnot and get out and walk at a different angle

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<v Speaker 2>back to the house. Yeah, remember one time coming down

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<v Speaker 2>and hitting.

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<v Speaker 3>This pointing because you floated down you.

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<v Speaker 2>Kind of like float past your house and you know

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<v Speaker 2>you're coming like like you're like, let's say your house

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<v Speaker 2>is at the hub of a wheel. You follow one

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<v Speaker 2>spoke out at a forty five, it in and come

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<v Speaker 2>back at another spoke out of forty five. Super hot day.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember coming down there, like trying somehow to get

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<v Speaker 2>my article and getting out at the bridge, like getting

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<v Speaker 2>out right where we're at and walking up Higgins and

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<v Speaker 2>getting a smoothie and having a laugh because coming back

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<v Speaker 2>I could still see my wet footprints coming up out

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<v Speaker 2>of the river. Got back in river and eventually got

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<v Speaker 2>that thing done and they published it, and it was

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<v Speaker 2>like something mentally, like something happened to me mentally, And

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<v Speaker 2>then I was do you know what I mean? Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>that's like something mentally happened to me after having accomplished that.

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<v Speaker 3>That's amazing. It's just like, how much just straight up

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<v Speaker 3>dicking around you did in this town. That was wasted

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<v Speaker 3>so much time unproductive compared to that wasted so much time.

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<v Speaker 7>What have you two crossed pens at anytime?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh? I'm sure, Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>For a while, I thought Steve was a teacher of mine.

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<v Speaker 3>Like when we were first starting to get to know

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<v Speaker 3>each other. I had this class, you know, it was

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<v Speaker 3>all taught by grad students, and it was a writing class,

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<v Speaker 3>and I was like, when we first started getting to

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<v Speaker 3>know each other, I was like, oh my god, this

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<v Speaker 3>is just like we're going to see each other eye

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<v Speaker 3>to die and make this connection of immediately disliking each

0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.280
<v Speaker 3>other because I had a big blow up. We were

0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:32.360
<v Speaker 3>like setting trustes or something. At the job site. I

0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:36.679
<v Speaker 3>had an A in the class, and the thing that was,

0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:40.679
<v Speaker 3>I had an A in everything curriculum based. I had

0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:46.120
<v Speaker 3>an F in attendance. And I was always like trying

0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.240
<v Speaker 3>to make the case of like, well, I actually am

0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.960
<v Speaker 3>working versus you the graduate student who just sit here

0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:57.440
<v Speaker 3>and do nothing. Graduate students love that when they're in

0:12:57.480 --> 0:12:58.400
<v Speaker 3>a teaching position.

0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:00.360
<v Speaker 2>That was mean. I'll tell you how I know it

0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:04.640
<v Speaker 2>wasn't me when I applied to come here. There's a

0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.959
<v Speaker 2>whole long story. It even involves when OJ was running

0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:11.200
<v Speaker 2>away in his Tronto and his Bronco. I'm not kidding you.

0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:13.959
<v Speaker 3>I can still see my grandma just plugged in to

0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:15.320
<v Speaker 3>that every day.

0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:19.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is how I came to be here, plays

0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:23.839
<v Speaker 2>into OJ's truck chase. It's so weird. I can't get

0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:28.200
<v Speaker 2>you all the details. I applied for a like a

0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:32.080
<v Speaker 2>fellowship where you get a tuition waiver, didn't get it.

0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:34.040
<v Speaker 2>They kind of like the program I was in was

0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.559
<v Speaker 2>like a lot of like Ivy League kids, kids from

0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:39.679
<v Speaker 2>real high flute in school, not from a ski gun,

0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.320
<v Speaker 2>but would roll the dice on like like now and

0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.240
<v Speaker 2>then like roll the dice on an unexpected candidate, and

0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:48.160
<v Speaker 2>like I later learned, I was like the dice roll Okay.

0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:52.480
<v Speaker 2>So I tried to get a fellowship and I didn't

0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.079
<v Speaker 2>get a fellowship, so I had to come anyway and

0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:57.599
<v Speaker 2>pay tuition. So I couldn't afford the tuition, so I

0:13:57.640 --> 0:13:59.760
<v Speaker 2>had to come and take a light course load and

0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:01.160
<v Speaker 2>to get residency.

0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:01.840
<v Speaker 3>Yep.

0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:05.160
<v Speaker 2>Later as I came to establish myself within the program,

0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:08.839
<v Speaker 2>they offered me a fellowship, but out of pride, because

0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:10.559
<v Speaker 2>they didn't give it to me when I wanted it.

0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.160
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't take it just by that. I was doing

0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:16.800
<v Speaker 2>tree work anyways. But the first when I came, I

0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:18.680
<v Speaker 2>had to get like while I was trying to find

0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:20.880
<v Speaker 2>a regular job. I had to get a part time job,

0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:22.400
<v Speaker 2>and so you could get a part time job through

0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:24.920
<v Speaker 2>the school, and they gave me a job. My classes

0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:27.680
<v Speaker 2>were all in the LA building. They gave me a job.

0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:29.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm not kidding you. They gave me a job scrubbing

0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:34.400
<v Speaker 2>toilets in the building where all my classes were. And

0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:36.840
<v Speaker 2>it would put these Ivy League kids in this super

0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:39.600
<v Speaker 2>weird situation. They'd come in to take a piss and

0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.320
<v Speaker 2>there I am their classmates scrubbing the toilet, and I

0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:43.960
<v Speaker 2>remember one of them was so like kind of like

0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:45.960
<v Speaker 2>taking it back they put they put out the at

0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.480
<v Speaker 2>least it must be convenient, because you're right here.

0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.320
<v Speaker 3>You're like, yeah, yeah, I'm glad we have that.

0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:55.680
<v Speaker 2>That's why I took the job. Yeah, dude, it was

0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:59.120
<v Speaker 2>a wild, wild time in my life. Man. Oh I

0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:05.080
<v Speaker 2>so later tonight you're gonna hear uh, we're gonna do

0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:07.640
<v Speaker 2>a show up here. I saw Steve Earl. I can't

0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:08.120
<v Speaker 2>even think of who.

0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:10.160
<v Speaker 3>I say, you need to get Steve Earl on the podcast.

0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:13.520
<v Speaker 3>He's he's a public Lands dude, loves to fish.

0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:16.600
<v Speaker 2>The reason I haven't is we just totally disagree on

0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.520
<v Speaker 2>capital punishment. But I just don't see that coming up.

0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.280
<v Speaker 5>I would love to have a feeling it could be

0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:24.560
<v Speaker 5>a freewheeling conversation.

0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 2>I would love to have him on. I don't want

0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:28.520
<v Speaker 2>to talk about Capitol Punt. There's plenty of places we lined.

0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:30.560
<v Speaker 2>I saw him in Bozeman, I saw him in Missoula.

0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:33.720
<v Speaker 2>Our playlist that we play before the live shows, so

0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.120
<v Speaker 2>when we turn our playlists on tonight has Steve Earl

0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:38.360
<v Speaker 2>tunes on it. Huge.

0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:42.720
<v Speaker 3>Steve Earl ticks me off about uh folks who like

0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:44.720
<v Speaker 3>don't listen to Steve Earl and they're like, yeah, I'm

0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.520
<v Speaker 3>going to Steve Earl concert. They'll be like, oh, is

0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.320
<v Speaker 3>he gonna play? And they'll rattle off like one of his.

0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.680
<v Speaker 6>Hits, Copperhead Rode I hope so like copper Yeah exactly,

0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:55.920
<v Speaker 6>And you're like, sure, hope, so is.

0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:58.560
<v Speaker 2>What I want? Or is he gonna do? I feel

0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:01.040
<v Speaker 2>all right, Oh that's good, that's my too.

0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:03.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Galway girl's great man.

0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:05.560
<v Speaker 2>I'd love he's a fisherman.

0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:06.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I just feel so strongly about capital punishment.

0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:13.120
<v Speaker 3>In favor of lightening our tax load.

0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.600
<v Speaker 2>No, just something and I don't think of it as

0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:19.640
<v Speaker 2>like I don't think of it as deterrent. I just

0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:22.120
<v Speaker 2>think there's some things that are so heinous. I just

0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:23.359
<v Speaker 2>think of it like a revenge.

0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:28.000
<v Speaker 7>It's on brand that you supported the gravel pit dog

0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:33.560
<v Speaker 7>killing then of Christin Yes, okay, they did brand.

0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:36.400
<v Speaker 3>In the Guardian article they did use the word execution,

0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.280
<v Speaker 3>which I go back and forth with, like using that

0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:44.160
<v Speaker 3>type of language, which I feel is like typically reserved

0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.680
<v Speaker 3>for humans.

0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:49.320
<v Speaker 2>Well you remember when Pebble's the bear was killed, he

0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:50.240
<v Speaker 2>was assassinated?

0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:56.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well that, uh, what I feel like is a

0:16:56.520 --> 0:17:01.200
<v Speaker 3>grossly out of taste, out of touch those billboards that

0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:05.680
<v Speaker 3>are around Bozeman, which is like stop the bison genocide.

0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:11.800
<v Speaker 6>Oh yeah, sense yeah, Like.

0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.119
<v Speaker 3>Like let's just round up a handful of tribes in

0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.800
<v Speaker 3>Montana and see what their association to genocide is.

0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:20.520
<v Speaker 2>That it's pretty out of touch. It's misleading word choice,

0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:26.119
<v Speaker 2>which is something I never engage in. We're gonna do

0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.359
<v Speaker 2>a show tonight here in the Wilmot, which is which

0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:31.280
<v Speaker 2>is uh, like I said, heat with nostalgia. And one

0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.040
<v Speaker 2>thing we're gonna hear tonight is we're gonna hear Clay

0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:37.080
<v Speaker 2>and Phil perform and Phil, do you have a mic

0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:37.520
<v Speaker 2>on Phil?

0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:38.520
<v Speaker 3>I do? Yeah?

0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Phil has been playing at all of our live shows.

0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:44.840
<v Speaker 2>Phil has been playing his harmonica, which you're not a

0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:46.399
<v Speaker 2>historic harmonica player.

0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:51.120
<v Speaker 4>No, I Uh, I heard Clay was playing playing the show,

0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:53.560
<v Speaker 4>and I kind of wanted to just make myself more

0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.479
<v Speaker 4>useful on this tour. Is honestly, when I've decided when

0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:57.800
<v Speaker 4>I was asked to come, I didn't know what I

0:17:57.840 --> 0:17:58.520
<v Speaker 4>was going to be doing.

0:17:58.720 --> 0:17:59.160
<v Speaker 2>Is that right?

0:17:59.240 --> 0:17:59.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:00.600
<v Speaker 4>So I was like, oh, I don't I don't just

0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.439
<v Speaker 4>want to be uh dead weight. So I asked Clay, like, hey,

0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:05.960
<v Speaker 4>would you want some accompaniment? And he was super generous

0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:08.159
<v Speaker 4>and said said yes. So I was like, man, I

0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:10.360
<v Speaker 4>should I got to learn an instrument. I can play

0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:14.080
<v Speaker 4>with Clay, but I've played music all throughout my childhood

0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:15.639
<v Speaker 4>in high school. So it's like I think I told you,

0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:17.760
<v Speaker 4>I'm like master of none and jack of all trade,

0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:20.080
<v Speaker 4>Like I can I can learn something quickly. I'm not,

0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:22.320
<v Speaker 4>by any means a.

0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:23.720
<v Speaker 3>Great harmonica player, but I get it. I get the

0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:24.200
<v Speaker 3>job done.

0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:27.199
<v Speaker 5>Did you choose the harmonica for the ease of transport?

0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:28.960
<v Speaker 3>That was definitely a factor.

0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, he blew went out on the tour.

0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:33.280
<v Speaker 5>Really, yeah, I didn't know you could blow out hard,

0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:35.160
<v Speaker 5>you know, I did play it so hot it only

0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:36.200
<v Speaker 5>lasted him three nights.

0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:38.199
<v Speaker 3>We need the fortnight show. We need to get him

0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:42.399
<v Speaker 3>one of those vests so he can have several harps.

0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:44.359
<v Speaker 5>Well, yes, and a.

0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:46.000
<v Speaker 2>Bob Dylan holder.

0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:47.240
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, I love it.

0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:48.359
<v Speaker 2>So his hands are free.

0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:48.800
<v Speaker 3>Yep.

0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:51.479
<v Speaker 2>I think you should do both the songs. You get

0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:53.120
<v Speaker 2>well of them. Well, you don't want to do both

0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:55.200
<v Speaker 2>your No, I mean yeah, I can't.

0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.400
<v Speaker 6>I'd say it's a lot of live music for a podcast. Okay,

0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:00.440
<v Speaker 6>let's just cut to the one where your podcast. Yeah,

0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.880
<v Speaker 6>let's cut to the more Phil places his harmonica. Alrighty, Yeah,

0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:06.440
<v Speaker 6>it's kind of it's kind of the show stopper, you know, yep,

0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:09.679
<v Speaker 6>the show starter.

0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:11.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a show. We need to show stopper. Don't

0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:12.639
<v Speaker 2>stop the show with it.

0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:15.200
<v Speaker 6>Now, we need to We need to get down.

0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:15.600
<v Speaker 3>I got you.

0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:17.040
<v Speaker 6>We need to sit down, Phil.

0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:18.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we do.

0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:20.200
<v Speaker 4>Otherwise I gotta make some camera adjustments.

0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:22.320
<v Speaker 2>And that's just his foot tambourine.

0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:27.000
<v Speaker 5>Is this a foot stomper? Are we supposed to the audience.

0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:31.040
<v Speaker 5>It's just one thing I've learned from musicians. They don't

0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:34.880
<v Speaker 5>like because the audience gets going and they're they're not on.

0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.480
<v Speaker 4>They started clapping h a few days ago during the

0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:40.240
<v Speaker 4>the Your First, Your First song, and I was I

0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:41.000
<v Speaker 4>was really worried.

0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:42.120
<v Speaker 2>Then it kind of died off.

0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:45.000
<v Speaker 6>You know, when you're on stage, it's so loud you

0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:46.120
<v Speaker 6>can only hear yourself.

0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:48.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they got a big monitors, so they're throwing you off.

0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.239
<v Speaker 6>They probably would if they if all of them got

0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:51.840
<v Speaker 6>to do in it.

0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:54.719
<v Speaker 4>But most humans aren't good at keeping a tempo, especially

0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:56.359
<v Speaker 4>when you got like five hundred of them all trying

0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:57.040
<v Speaker 4>at the same time.

0:19:57.400 --> 0:19:58.960
<v Speaker 6>This is a little bit harder because I can't I

0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:00.000
<v Speaker 6>can't really hear my guitar.

0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:01.159
<v Speaker 2>But it's okay. We got it.

0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.199
<v Speaker 6>Me and Phil Man I've said it a couple of times,

0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:07.000
<v Speaker 6>like I feel like Merle Haggard. I feel like I've

0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:09.199
<v Speaker 6>been on the tour of my whole life. All I

0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:10.280
<v Speaker 6>think about is the music.

0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:12.280
<v Speaker 2>Like Phil said last night, when when you get home,

0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:14.200
<v Speaker 2>the rest of the world wi I've moved on, And.

0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:17.719
<v Speaker 6>Yeah you're still there at the same Yes, all right,

0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:20.600
<v Speaker 6>can you quick give a little background on old slew foot?

0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:22.960
<v Speaker 6>So this is just an old folk song?

0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:25.480
<v Speaker 2>Does that? Does it known? Who is does it? I

0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:26.120
<v Speaker 2>don't even know.

0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:31.200
<v Speaker 6>I don't even know who originally wrote it. I don't know,

0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.560
<v Speaker 6>but all the all the folk bands sing it.

0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:36.280
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's your traditional song.

0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:38.480
<v Speaker 6>It's a traditional song and it's about a bear hunt

0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:40.320
<v Speaker 6>with dogs, which is pretty cool.

0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:44.360
<v Speaker 2>Have you listened to The Grateful Dead's album Reckoning, It's

0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:46.880
<v Speaker 2>like traditional songs I have none.

0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.399
<v Speaker 6>You might like some of those, Yeah, I bet I would.

0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:52.119
<v Speaker 6>All right, you're ready, Phil, Let's do it all right.

0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:54.640
<v Speaker 6>This is old slew Foot. It's a great song.

0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:56.359
<v Speaker 2>You're gonna beller it right.

0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:59.240
<v Speaker 6>I'm gonna do my best. It's a little bit harder sitting.

0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:04.520
<v Speaker 8>Down high on the mountain top. Tell me what you see?

0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:08.600
<v Speaker 6>Bear tracks, bear tracks looking back at me.

0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:14.240
<v Speaker 9>You better get your ripples bus before it's too late.

0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:18.280
<v Speaker 8>Bear's got a little pig and he's headed.

0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:23.000
<v Speaker 10>For the Gameoh he's big around the middle, and he's

0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:26.520
<v Speaker 10>brought across the front, running tiny miles an hour.

0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:28.800
<v Speaker 6>We're taking thirty feet of jump.

0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:33.160
<v Speaker 10>He had never been caught, He hain't never been treated.

0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:37.320
<v Speaker 8>Some bull say he's a love like me.

0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:40.600
<v Speaker 6>Here you go, po tambourine.

0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:44.280
<v Speaker 11>I saved up my money and I bought.

0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:49.400
<v Speaker 10>Me some bees, started making honey way up in the trees.

0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:52.680
<v Speaker 3>I cut down that tree.

0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:56.600
<v Speaker 9>But my honey is all golf old sloop.

0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:59.000
<v Speaker 8>Foot done made himself at home.

0:21:59.440 --> 0:21:59.680
<v Speaker 10>Oh.

0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:04.320
<v Speaker 12>He's big around the middle, and he's broad across the front,

0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:08.560
<v Speaker 12>running ninety miles an hour, taking thirty feet of jump.

0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:13.040
<v Speaker 12>He had never been come he hain't never been treated.

0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:18.080
<v Speaker 8>Some don't say he's like me Bill.

0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:49.400
<v Speaker 11>Taylor on the Harmonica.

0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:59.320
<v Speaker 9>That's right, last word. Winners are coming and it's twenty

0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:06.280
<v Speaker 9>oh rivers rose over, So where can he go? We'll

0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:07.280
<v Speaker 9>chase him up.

0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:08.720
<v Speaker 11>The haller and we'll.

0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:11.400
<v Speaker 9>Put him in well, shoot him in.

0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:13.880
<v Speaker 11>The bottom, just to listen to himy ill.

0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:19.439
<v Speaker 12>He's big around the middle, and he's broad across the front,

0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:21.720
<v Speaker 12>running ninety miles an hour.

0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:25.560
<v Speaker 8>Taking thirty feet of jumping. He had never been caught.

0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:27.920
<v Speaker 8>He hain't never been treated.

0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:30.200
<v Speaker 2>Some folks say.

0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:41.000
<v Speaker 10>He's a lot like me, Bill Tyler of the Harmonica,

0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:44.280
<v Speaker 10>timboury Phil.

0:23:46.359 --> 0:23:50.880
<v Speaker 2>Does like Bill, just a quiet man of talent. Yes, yeah,

0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:59.080
<v Speaker 2>thank you Phil, Oh, thank you Clay. Okay, handful things

0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:00.680
<v Speaker 2>to talk about. How you wanna kick off with the

0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:02.560
<v Speaker 2>with the with the brew Han Wisconsin.

0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:09.240
<v Speaker 3>Oh sorry, it's like regulation season setting for a lot

0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:12.880
<v Speaker 3>of different states, is it. Yeah, yeah, like we we're

0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:18.040
<v Speaker 3>going through season setting processes in Montana and so one

0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:22.200
<v Speaker 3>of the things that and I know we're going to

0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:25.000
<v Speaker 3>talk about Washington this podcast too, right, So yeah, that's

0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:30.760
<v Speaker 3>another example. But so state of Wisconsin. Uh, somebody wrote

0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:34.479
<v Speaker 3>in for the Game Commission to consider a proposal that

0:24:34.520 --> 0:24:39.480
<v Speaker 3>would ban side imaging sonar and like three sixty view

0:24:39.520 --> 0:24:40.680
<v Speaker 3>so sonar.

0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:41.359
<v Speaker 2>Which is in Chester.

0:24:42.240 --> 0:24:49.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, which is you know, like crazy awesome technology that's

0:24:49.080 --> 0:24:53.000
<v Speaker 3>becoming more and more available because the the longer it's out,

0:24:53.040 --> 0:24:56.920
<v Speaker 3>the prices come down, so more folks can afford it.

0:24:57.000 --> 0:25:04.800
<v Speaker 3>And it allows anglers to target individual fish, identify species,

0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:09.760
<v Speaker 3>identify fish in conditions that they typically would have to

0:25:09.800 --> 0:25:15.720
<v Speaker 3>you know, just blind cast or sit with a worm

0:25:15.760 --> 0:25:17.399
<v Speaker 3>on the bottom and hope for the best type of thing.

0:25:17.520 --> 0:25:21.240
<v Speaker 2>Inane effective. I fished it. Yeah, you fished it.

0:25:22.640 --> 0:25:24.760
<v Speaker 3>And like, you know, one of my gripes with this

0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:30.200
<v Speaker 3>technology is that, like we did that Ducks Unlimited Perch

0:25:30.240 --> 0:25:33.480
<v Speaker 3>fishing tournament on Canyon Ferry a few years ago, which

0:25:33.520 --> 0:25:38.800
<v Speaker 3>is super fun, but as the day progressed, I had

0:25:38.840 --> 0:25:42.240
<v Speaker 3>like nobody to talk to because you guys were all

0:25:42.320 --> 0:25:48.000
<v Speaker 3>huddled around that screen and it was like it you

0:25:48.040 --> 0:25:50.280
<v Speaker 3>may as I was a lonely man out there on

0:25:50.320 --> 0:25:53.560
<v Speaker 3>the ice without couldn't couldn't join in on the fun.

0:25:53.720 --> 0:25:56.560
<v Speaker 3>Not enough holes and so and iron stuff to go around.

0:25:56.600 --> 0:25:59.639
<v Speaker 3>And it's like this is yeah, it's just kind of

0:25:59.640 --> 0:26:03.680
<v Speaker 3>taking the a big part of the fishing camarade, camaraderie

0:26:03.720 --> 0:26:06.560
<v Speaker 3>out of it. And it's like another excuse to watch TV.

0:26:06.920 --> 0:26:07.760
<v Speaker 3>That's one reason.

0:26:08.080 --> 0:26:12.199
<v Speaker 2>It is no reason it's yeah. And I even with

0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:15.720
<v Speaker 2>so I had a camera for a while for ice fishing. Yeah,

0:26:16.200 --> 0:26:18.800
<v Speaker 2>kept breaking. I had a camera. You lower the wire

0:26:18.880 --> 0:26:21.560
<v Speaker 2>down the hole and you can hook fish. It don't

0:26:21.600 --> 0:26:23.960
<v Speaker 2>hit like I think you don't realize in your ice

0:26:23.960 --> 0:26:26.720
<v Speaker 2>fishing when fisher turned off is they mouth it. They'll

0:26:26.800 --> 0:26:29.480
<v Speaker 2>mouth it in a way that usually got a spring bobber.

0:26:29.560 --> 0:26:33.440
<v Speaker 2>You don't register the hit. But on camera you can

0:26:33.480 --> 0:26:35.920
<v Speaker 2>be like, oh it's in their mouth. You can zip fit.

0:26:36.080 --> 0:26:38.840
<v Speaker 2>You can hook a fish that would not register on

0:26:38.920 --> 0:26:41.640
<v Speaker 2>a spring bobber. Yeah, because you go like, oh shit.

0:26:42.520 --> 0:26:48.879
<v Speaker 3>So this guy's argument is that the effectiveness of this

0:26:49.000 --> 0:26:52.640
<v Speaker 3>sonar is going to increase the catch rate and more

0:26:52.680 --> 0:26:58.080
<v Speaker 3>than likely the take home rate of fish. You know,

0:26:58.160 --> 0:27:01.560
<v Speaker 3>probably like walleye, crappie, bluegill, is what this person is

0:27:01.560 --> 0:27:07.880
<v Speaker 3>probably real concerned about. That impact is going to decrease

0:27:09.080 --> 0:27:12.600
<v Speaker 3>the creole limits your take home, how many fish you

0:27:12.640 --> 0:27:18.159
<v Speaker 3>can take home. Yeah, when that happens, the ripple effect

0:27:18.280 --> 0:27:21.080
<v Speaker 3>is going to be fewer people buying your fishing license

0:27:21.119 --> 0:27:24.639
<v Speaker 3>because they don't find it worth their while because they

0:27:24.640 --> 0:27:26.879
<v Speaker 3>can't take home as many fish. So it's going to

0:27:27.840 --> 0:27:32.679
<v Speaker 3>hurt the whole system because fish are too easy to

0:27:32.720 --> 0:27:36.240
<v Speaker 3>catch right now with this technology, it's so easy, it's

0:27:36.240 --> 0:27:39.200
<v Speaker 3>going to hurt the population. The hurt in the population

0:27:39.440 --> 0:27:42.240
<v Speaker 3>is going to lead to a decrease in fishing licenses sold.

0:27:43.960 --> 0:27:45.399
<v Speaker 6>Do you think that's that's true?

0:27:48.560 --> 0:27:52.240
<v Speaker 2>It's extrapolated out pretty far. Listen to this.

0:27:52.680 --> 0:27:55.880
<v Speaker 6>I think that guys that grew up traditional fishing that

0:27:56.000 --> 0:27:58.919
<v Speaker 6>really value being able to catch a big crappy, you know,

0:27:58.960 --> 0:28:00.639
<v Speaker 6>a two and a half pound crop. It's like that

0:28:00.800 --> 0:28:03.720
<v Speaker 6>is like a gold bar to them. When that guy

0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:08.560
<v Speaker 6>gets the technology, he loves it because he's catching this

0:28:08.600 --> 0:28:10.960
<v Speaker 6>thing that's been so difficult to catch his whole life,

0:28:11.520 --> 0:28:13.439
<v Speaker 6>and he just goes nuts over it.

0:28:13.400 --> 0:28:16.880
<v Speaker 3>And has to that it can still be difficult even

0:28:16.960 --> 0:28:19.439
<v Speaker 3>though you've identified the fish in the spot.

0:28:20.000 --> 0:28:22.840
<v Speaker 6>But what happens to the to the generation down the

0:28:22.880 --> 0:28:25.480
<v Speaker 6>line that grows up with this technology that catching a

0:28:25.840 --> 0:28:27.600
<v Speaker 6>two and a half pound crap is just.

0:28:27.480 --> 0:28:30.000
<v Speaker 2>Like, they'll do it every day. They'll get old and

0:28:30.040 --> 0:28:33.120
<v Speaker 2>they'll get mad about the next technology. Yeah, and they'll

0:28:33.160 --> 0:28:35.520
<v Speaker 2>they'll reminisce back when it was just the simple times

0:28:35.640 --> 0:28:36.359
<v Speaker 2>of having lives.

0:28:36.400 --> 0:28:39.480
<v Speaker 6>So onar Yeah, I mean you have a strong point there,

0:28:39.520 --> 0:28:46.240
<v Speaker 6>but we've never dealt with this level of technology before fish. Yeah,

0:28:46.280 --> 0:28:49.840
<v Speaker 6>I mean, going from to.

0:28:50.240 --> 0:28:54.400
<v Speaker 2>Rifles, monofilament. Come on, what's wrong with braiding some roots?

0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:56.440
<v Speaker 2>What's wrong with braiding some horse hair? Now the fish

0:28:56.440 --> 0:28:57.320
<v Speaker 2>can't even see the line.

0:28:57.440 --> 0:29:00.640
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, but at some point all technology isn't the same though.

0:29:00.600 --> 0:29:01.280
<v Speaker 2>Right understood.

0:29:01.360 --> 0:29:03.760
<v Speaker 6>And I'm gonna give a big I'm gonna give a

0:29:03.760 --> 0:29:05.040
<v Speaker 6>big spiel in a second.

0:29:05.400 --> 0:29:06.240
<v Speaker 2>So uh.

0:29:07.840 --> 0:29:13.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but wait, the reward of pounding a shoreline with

0:29:13.760 --> 0:29:21.040
<v Speaker 3>the spinner, which has probably caught more records than anything regardless, Uh, the.

0:29:21.080 --> 0:29:24.080
<v Speaker 2>Jig has caught the most records cal not the popper.

0:29:24.200 --> 0:29:27.760
<v Speaker 3>Not the popper, but but popper fishing is a great

0:29:27.760 --> 0:29:30.560
<v Speaker 3>example too, Like the effort that you got to put

0:29:30.560 --> 0:29:34.960
<v Speaker 3>in to get that super rewarding strike throwing big streamers

0:29:34.960 --> 0:29:38.280
<v Speaker 3>all that stuff because you're doing your best to do

0:29:38.360 --> 0:29:42.720
<v Speaker 3>the mental gymnastics of covering the water column, uh, doing

0:29:42.760 --> 0:29:50.640
<v Speaker 3>different presentations, and then you get a fish, and that

0:29:50.680 --> 0:29:53.040
<v Speaker 3>a fish is is a huge reward because you've had

0:29:53.080 --> 0:29:56.360
<v Speaker 3>to figure all this stuff out, you know, that accelerated

0:29:56.720 --> 0:30:01.320
<v Speaker 3>learning curve of being like, oh, don't even toucher rod. Yep,

0:30:02.240 --> 0:30:05.120
<v Speaker 3>we're just gonna go until the we can see the

0:30:05.160 --> 0:30:08.000
<v Speaker 3>fish on the screen. We're gonna get everything right, and

0:30:08.040 --> 0:30:10.080
<v Speaker 3>then you can cast to it.

0:30:10.200 --> 0:30:15.040
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, because it's it's fifty six inches off starboard stern yep.

0:30:15.480 --> 0:30:18.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you see where the stick's pointing, like right there,

0:30:18.520 --> 0:30:19.120
<v Speaker 3>ten feet.

0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:19.400
<v Speaker 2>No.

0:30:20.120 --> 0:30:22.720
<v Speaker 7>I think it would be super telling if Wisconsin were

0:30:22.760 --> 0:30:25.280
<v Speaker 7>the state to do this. It'd be like if Texas

0:30:25.280 --> 0:30:29.120
<v Speaker 7>outlawed cellular trail cameras or something like you're, oh, yeah,

0:30:29.600 --> 0:30:32.600
<v Speaker 7>per capita, there's got to be more live scopes in

0:30:32.640 --> 0:30:34.400
<v Speaker 7>Wisconsin or like at least top five.

0:30:34.640 --> 0:30:35.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's why it's top of mind.

0:30:36.960 --> 0:30:39.880
<v Speaker 5>I just whenever there's a change proposed like this, I

0:30:39.920 --> 0:30:43.600
<v Speaker 5>wonder if there's the it's all based on a hypothetical,

0:30:44.360 --> 0:30:47.040
<v Speaker 5>like if there is a measurable impact from this technology,

0:30:47.080 --> 0:30:48.280
<v Speaker 5>then you get into what.

0:30:48.200 --> 0:30:51.520
<v Speaker 3>The years years demonstrating.

0:30:51.040 --> 0:30:53.480
<v Speaker 5>And I understand that you don't want to let these

0:30:53.480 --> 0:30:57.200
<v Speaker 5>things get out of control, right or have a population

0:30:57.280 --> 0:31:01.200
<v Speaker 5>level impact. But there's a lot of ifs and thens and.

0:30:59.840 --> 0:31:03.120
<v Speaker 3>The and we talk about science based management, right, It's

0:31:03.120 --> 0:31:06.000
<v Speaker 3>like you get to this frustrating thing with biologists who

0:31:06.080 --> 0:31:08.800
<v Speaker 3>are like, well, show me the science.

0:31:08.840 --> 0:31:10.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh there's no science yet, right, And.

0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:13.040
<v Speaker 3>There's no science yet, so you can't be proactive.

0:31:13.280 --> 0:31:16.440
<v Speaker 2>You can't go look, here's a chart. Here's increase in

0:31:16.600 --> 0:31:20.720
<v Speaker 2>usage of live sonar. Here's depletion of resource. Yeah, no,

0:31:20.840 --> 0:31:22.520
<v Speaker 2>it's it's you're you're enforcing.

0:31:23.400 --> 0:31:26.240
<v Speaker 3>Here's the creole surveys. Here's the time on the water surveys.

0:31:26.320 --> 0:31:29.360
<v Speaker 2>Here's the Yeah, that's why anytime the whole follow the

0:31:29.400 --> 0:31:32.560
<v Speaker 2>science thing and trust the science, follow the science, people

0:31:32.640 --> 0:31:35.920
<v Speaker 2>use that opportunistically when it benefits what they're saying. This

0:31:36.000 --> 0:31:40.760
<v Speaker 2>is not. This is about managing, managing, enforcing, trying to

0:31:40.800 --> 0:31:45.280
<v Speaker 2>find some kind of definition of like fair chase, fair play,

0:31:45.280 --> 0:31:45.840
<v Speaker 2>fair share.

0:31:46.240 --> 0:31:46.520
<v Speaker 3>Yep.

0:31:46.680 --> 0:31:51.240
<v Speaker 2>Right, here's the spiel. Though, kind of given my spiel

0:31:51.280 --> 0:31:51.600
<v Speaker 2>on this.

0:31:51.720 --> 0:31:55.440
<v Speaker 3>I think you should throw it in also, like, you know,

0:31:56.200 --> 0:31:59.000
<v Speaker 3>because I think this ties in with what Clay was

0:31:59.080 --> 0:32:01.520
<v Speaker 3>kind of getting at and how you've talked about like

0:32:01.600 --> 0:32:04.719
<v Speaker 3>raising your kids right, like getting them to play out

0:32:04.760 --> 0:32:07.160
<v Speaker 3>in the rain so they're not like, oh it's raining,

0:32:07.200 --> 0:32:10.520
<v Speaker 3>we can't go do anything like I think there's doing

0:32:10.560 --> 0:32:14.520
<v Speaker 3>things the hard way can benefit our system.

0:32:14.640 --> 0:32:17.280
<v Speaker 2>But well, yeah, I never finished my point earlier about

0:32:17.320 --> 0:32:20.240
<v Speaker 2>that camera. When that camera broke. I'm not kidding. When

0:32:20.240 --> 0:32:24.240
<v Speaker 2>that camera broke. My boy, my older boy, he didn't

0:32:24.240 --> 0:32:26.040
<v Speaker 2>want to go ice fishing because the camera's broke. I'm

0:32:26.040 --> 0:32:31.280
<v Speaker 2>not kidding you. Yeah, yeah, because it was why would you, you.

0:32:31.200 --> 0:32:33.160
<v Speaker 6>Know, did you want to go ice fishing? Oh yeah,

0:32:33.160 --> 0:32:35.480
<v Speaker 6>It's like who cares? He's like, wow, we don't have

0:32:35.520 --> 0:32:36.080
<v Speaker 6>the camera though.

0:32:36.160 --> 0:32:39.480
<v Speaker 3>Well, Jay Siemens and Mandy when we were fishing with them,

0:32:39.800 --> 0:32:43.160
<v Speaker 3>I tried to sit next to Mandy without She had

0:32:43.160 --> 0:32:48.360
<v Speaker 3>a screen going in her hole and there was just

0:32:48.360 --> 0:32:50.960
<v Speaker 3>an open hole next to her and I sat there

0:32:51.000 --> 0:32:54.920
<v Speaker 3>and was just jigging off the bottom. Imagine that, no

0:32:55.040 --> 0:32:58.480
<v Speaker 3>flash or no nothing, and she could not stand it.

0:32:58.840 --> 0:33:01.360
<v Speaker 3>She was like, no, no, no, what are you doing.

0:33:01.760 --> 0:33:04.800
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, I'm fishing. She's like, no, you're not. And

0:33:04.840 --> 0:33:08.560
<v Speaker 3>she had to go get at least a flasher.

0:33:08.440 --> 0:33:09.360
<v Speaker 2>Put something in front of you.

0:33:09.480 --> 0:33:13.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and then we're talking with Jay. I was like, okay,

0:33:14.520 --> 0:33:19.520
<v Speaker 3>this side imaging live scope deal. If you forgot it,

0:33:20.320 --> 0:33:23.400
<v Speaker 3>how far away? Like if you were heading to a

0:33:23.440 --> 0:33:28.440
<v Speaker 3>tournament someplace or just going to fish, what would be

0:33:28.480 --> 0:33:31.920
<v Speaker 3>your point of going, Oh my god, I forgot the

0:33:31.920 --> 0:33:34.880
<v Speaker 3>live scope. I got to turn around and go back.

0:33:35.000 --> 0:33:39.200
<v Speaker 3>He said, more to five hours if he was, if

0:33:39.240 --> 0:33:41.960
<v Speaker 3>he was within four or five hours of home, he

0:33:42.000 --> 0:33:44.200
<v Speaker 3>would turn around and go back and get.

0:33:44.080 --> 0:33:57.480
<v Speaker 6>The thing, because yeahs feels good. Success is a drug, dude.

0:33:57.960 --> 0:34:02.080
<v Speaker 6>The other night, I did. I'm kind of nervous about it.

0:34:02.160 --> 0:34:04.760
<v Speaker 2>I did. I did an interview with a I did

0:34:04.800 --> 0:34:07.360
<v Speaker 2>an interview with a journalist who normally covers She covers

0:34:07.400 --> 0:34:10.560
<v Speaker 2>like an Olympics sports scheme.

0:34:12.760 --> 0:34:14.880
<v Speaker 3>Oh, that's appropriate. So far a lot of athletes in

0:34:14.920 --> 0:34:15.920
<v Speaker 3>this room.

0:34:15.960 --> 0:34:19.880
<v Speaker 2>So And the interview was set up around the publication

0:34:20.040 --> 0:34:22.759
<v Speaker 2>of our new cookbooks. I thought we're gonna talk about that.

0:34:22.760 --> 0:34:25.319
<v Speaker 2>But she comes in and we sit down and she

0:34:25.360 --> 0:34:30.240
<v Speaker 2>wants she has like six the six most controversial things

0:34:30.239 --> 0:34:32.480
<v Speaker 2>in hunting, Like I'm not telling you, Like she wanted

0:34:32.520 --> 0:34:36.839
<v Speaker 2>to talk about, uh, regulatory structures around hunting mountain lions.

0:34:36.920 --> 0:34:44.280
<v Speaker 2>What do I think like public lands, divestiture, uh, hounds

0:34:44.320 --> 0:34:48.560
<v Speaker 2>for bears okay, mm hmm. I was like, yeah, surprising.

0:34:48.600 --> 0:34:49.719
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what she's gonna do it, Like, I

0:34:49.760 --> 0:34:51.560
<v Speaker 2>was just like, she caught me in the chatty mood.

0:34:51.800 --> 0:34:54.440
<v Speaker 2>Did she ask you about the cookbook? No, not a

0:34:54.480 --> 0:34:57.200
<v Speaker 2>single time. Caught me in the chatty mood too. So

0:34:57.200 --> 0:34:59.000
<v Speaker 2>now I'm nervous about what all I said. But I

0:34:59.239 --> 0:35:01.399
<v Speaker 2>want to explain thing to her. And I've talked about

0:35:01.440 --> 0:35:06.760
<v Speaker 2>before here. But it's like I was avoiding conversations about

0:35:06.880 --> 0:35:11.080
<v Speaker 2>specific state by state issues, okay, And I was saying, like,

0:35:11.160 --> 0:35:15.839
<v Speaker 2>here's the here's my general perspective. My general perspective is

0:35:15.880 --> 0:35:23.279
<v Speaker 2>that I tend to look favorably upon traditional use practices

0:35:25.040 --> 0:35:28.560
<v Speaker 2>where it's been demonstrated that that traditional use practice is

0:35:28.640 --> 0:35:34.520
<v Speaker 2>compatible with sustainable wildlife management. Okay, meaning of a state

0:35:34.560 --> 0:35:40.760
<v Speaker 2>has always had hound hunting for bears, and that practice

0:35:40.760 --> 0:35:43.160
<v Speaker 2>hound hunting for bears has proven to be compatible with

0:35:43.960 --> 0:35:47.280
<v Speaker 2>responsible management of black bears as a renewable resource.

0:35:47.080 --> 0:35:49.920
<v Speaker 3>Meaning a stable or growing population.

0:35:50.000 --> 0:35:53.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so you've always hound hundred bears, you have good

0:35:53.520 --> 0:35:56.400
<v Speaker 2>bear numbers on the on the landscape, they're not in decline.

0:35:57.760 --> 0:36:00.200
<v Speaker 2>I would say that that that traditional use practic this

0:36:00.640 --> 0:36:03.480
<v Speaker 2>is warranted. Now the States never had hound hunting for

0:36:03.520 --> 0:36:05.479
<v Speaker 2>bears and they go to institute hound hunting for bears,

0:36:05.480 --> 0:36:07.239
<v Speaker 2>And I wouldn't look at it like a defending a

0:36:07.239 --> 0:36:09.840
<v Speaker 2>traditional use practice where let's say for the last one

0:36:09.880 --> 0:36:12.759
<v Speaker 2>hundred years you haven't been able to You're introducing a

0:36:12.800 --> 0:36:16.960
<v Speaker 2>new thing into the mix which requires special consideration. And

0:36:17.400 --> 0:36:18.799
<v Speaker 2>I was trying to explain to her as well, like

0:36:19.320 --> 0:36:24.759
<v Speaker 2>where this becomes relevant is we always have been and

0:36:24.880 --> 0:36:30.399
<v Speaker 2>always will be faced with new practices, and we need

0:36:30.400 --> 0:36:35.680
<v Speaker 2>to assess what we're gonna do about new practices. Enter

0:36:35.880 --> 0:36:40.200
<v Speaker 2>like the drone. Okay, years ago, like when drones became

0:36:40.360 --> 0:36:44.520
<v Speaker 2>just a whisper, a whisper, I remember it was like

0:36:44.560 --> 0:36:50.359
<v Speaker 2>in one year, thirteen Western states and one year came

0:36:50.360 --> 0:36:54.160
<v Speaker 2>out and just washed their hands of it. They immediately like,

0:36:54.400 --> 0:36:57.479
<v Speaker 2>I don't know where this is going. I'm not gonna

0:36:57.560 --> 0:37:01.600
<v Speaker 2>let it go anywhere. Yes, drones and hunting are out.

0:37:01.480 --> 0:37:06.120
<v Speaker 3>Well, I think bha RF, a bunch of conservation groups

0:37:06.160 --> 0:37:11.960
<v Speaker 3>immediately came out with policy statements like restricting technology yep,

0:37:12.000 --> 0:37:17.000
<v Speaker 3>but they were addressing drones specifically.

0:37:16.360 --> 0:37:20.080
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, and it was quick. Yeah, it was quick. Would drones.

0:37:20.120 --> 0:37:23.040
<v Speaker 6>Could you make a comparison between using drones and livescoping

0:37:23.080 --> 0:37:23.879
<v Speaker 6>for fishing.

0:37:23.600 --> 0:37:25.040
<v Speaker 2>Well, I could tell you this, Like there was a

0:37:25.120 --> 0:37:27.680
<v Speaker 2>rumor like here, I could tell you one place that

0:37:27.760 --> 0:37:29.759
<v Speaker 2>drones would be like incredibly effective. And there was a

0:37:29.840 --> 0:37:32.600
<v Speaker 2>rumor of being used this way hunting moose. Putting up

0:37:32.600 --> 0:37:33.720
<v Speaker 2>a drone in a willow flat.

0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:39.680
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, giant black blob that's six feet tall and a

0:37:39.680 --> 0:37:43.160
<v Speaker 6>bunch of willows that are eight feet tall, and it's like,

0:37:43.200 --> 0:37:45.400
<v Speaker 6>oh there, he is right, And there was a rumor

0:37:45.440 --> 0:37:48.160
<v Speaker 6>of that being a coming a thing immediately.

0:37:48.200 --> 0:37:50.719
<v Speaker 2>Okay. So here you took an emerging technology that you

0:37:50.880 --> 0:37:53.960
<v Speaker 2>knew was going to be impactful on the resource, and

0:37:54.040 --> 0:37:57.360
<v Speaker 2>before it even had a user group, there was no

0:37:57.400 --> 0:38:01.160
<v Speaker 2>one to even bitch. There was no one to bitch

0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:03.359
<v Speaker 2>because no one was you know what I mean, if

0:38:03.400 --> 0:38:05.879
<v Speaker 2>you went if you had just held off and tried

0:38:05.920 --> 0:38:08.520
<v Speaker 2>it now, you'd already have resistance. Yeah.

0:38:08.719 --> 0:38:11.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So like and look at what is happening right now,

0:38:11.440 --> 0:38:14.799
<v Speaker 3>because I mean that's a great like the in other

0:38:14.880 --> 0:38:18.360
<v Speaker 3>aspects game retrieval, some of like the big evil drone

0:38:18.400 --> 0:38:19.480
<v Speaker 3>technology things.

0:38:19.280 --> 0:38:24.240
<v Speaker 2>Have are true, ye day not true.

0:38:24.640 --> 0:38:28.560
<v Speaker 3>Oh, they're using, so like using thermal imaging to detect

0:38:28.640 --> 0:38:30.200
<v Speaker 3>game for hunting purposes.

0:38:30.280 --> 0:38:33.160
<v Speaker 2>The other day I was in the room. I was

0:38:33.280 --> 0:38:37.120
<v Speaker 2>in the room in Mississippi and there was a conversation.

0:38:37.320 --> 0:38:39.640
<v Speaker 2>There was a guy that got the thermal drone thing

0:38:39.719 --> 0:38:43.040
<v Speaker 2>for recovery, and his buddies were saying, Now, what he

0:38:43.120 --> 0:38:48.040
<v Speaker 2>does is he flies to find where bucks that he

0:38:48.120 --> 0:38:52.600
<v Speaker 2>knows about are bedded so he can set up on

0:38:52.640 --> 0:38:55.000
<v Speaker 2>the exit trail that he knows that he wants to

0:38:55.040 --> 0:38:57.279
<v Speaker 2>set up on because he knows that bucks bed in

0:38:57.320 --> 0:38:58.960
<v Speaker 2>these certain areas and he knows where they been and

0:38:58.960 --> 0:39:01.440
<v Speaker 2>where they're gonna leave. So he finds the buck and

0:39:01.480 --> 0:39:03.719
<v Speaker 2>then makes his stand selection based on where he knows

0:39:03.719 --> 0:39:06.560
<v Speaker 2>the buck is bedded. Right, which does how is that

0:39:06.680 --> 0:39:09.640
<v Speaker 2>not illegal? Because every state didn't ban drones and hunting?

0:39:10.080 --> 0:39:12.399
<v Speaker 2>M right, Yeah, And.

0:39:12.360 --> 0:39:16.239
<v Speaker 3>It's drones and scouting. Is it drones in hunting? Right? Well,

0:39:16.280 --> 0:39:18.040
<v Speaker 3>it's like all the things.

0:39:18.080 --> 0:39:20.760
<v Speaker 5>It also raised the question like if you're using the

0:39:20.760 --> 0:39:25.000
<v Speaker 5>thermal for the thermal drone for recovery, if you don't,

0:39:25.120 --> 0:39:30.000
<v Speaker 5>if you find that you didn't hit that deer and

0:39:30.040 --> 0:39:32.160
<v Speaker 5>then all of a sudden you see another deer, do

0:39:32.200 --> 0:39:33.920
<v Speaker 5>you just have to cover your eyes and walk out

0:39:33.960 --> 0:39:35.960
<v Speaker 5>of the woods. That's why certain states and there's a

0:39:36.000 --> 0:39:39.160
<v Speaker 5>real fuzzy gray area there, but some states and it's

0:39:39.160 --> 0:39:42.840
<v Speaker 5>not the softy states. That's the thing with drones, is

0:39:42.840 --> 0:39:46.600
<v Speaker 5>it was like not not like that, not animal rights states.

0:39:48.600 --> 0:39:51.399
<v Speaker 5>You know, it's like Montana, Alaska, like not animal rights

0:39:51.440 --> 0:39:52.880
<v Speaker 5>states that got out ahead of drones.

0:39:52.920 --> 0:39:55.200
<v Speaker 2>And it's not animal right states. They're getting out ahead

0:39:55.200 --> 0:40:02.440
<v Speaker 2>of thermal Arizona, Utah, Arizona recently trail cams on public land.

0:40:03.400 --> 0:40:04.760
<v Speaker 2>That's not coming from antis.

0:40:05.080 --> 0:40:07.799
<v Speaker 3>Nope, nope, not at all.

0:40:08.040 --> 0:40:11.120
<v Speaker 7>This is forty five states have laws restricting the use

0:40:11.120 --> 0:40:14.799
<v Speaker 7>of drones for hunting. The only states that don't have

0:40:14.880 --> 0:40:20.200
<v Speaker 7>specific laws banning drone recovery or Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware, Oklahoma,

0:40:20.280 --> 0:40:21.239
<v Speaker 7>and South Carolina.

0:40:22.840 --> 0:40:25.680
<v Speaker 3>So I think it does paint the picture. Though, to

0:40:25.920 --> 0:40:29.440
<v Speaker 3>go back to the side imaging thing and the fear

0:40:29.680 --> 0:40:33.560
<v Speaker 3>is the technology is going to affect a population or

0:40:33.760 --> 0:40:38.839
<v Speaker 3>spike a harvest rate in such a way that it's

0:40:38.920 --> 0:40:42.640
<v Speaker 3>going to impact the length of a season or means

0:40:42.640 --> 0:40:46.080
<v Speaker 3>of take or one of these things that we hold

0:40:46.120 --> 0:40:49.879
<v Speaker 3>in higher regard than being able to use the technology.

0:40:50.000 --> 0:40:50.800
<v Speaker 3>Does that make sense.

0:40:50.920 --> 0:40:58.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it's like the conversation isn't just about live scope.

0:41:00.320 --> 0:41:06.480
<v Speaker 2>It's like, do we we're in like an unprecedented a

0:41:06.640 --> 0:41:12.359
<v Speaker 2>period of like unprecedented technological advancement? Right? You go back

0:41:12.360 --> 0:41:14.600
<v Speaker 2>to the forties and it'd be like the you know,

0:41:14.680 --> 0:41:18.840
<v Speaker 2>atomic and nuclear like just changed everything. The Internet age

0:41:19.040 --> 0:41:24.359
<v Speaker 2>changed everything, like unprecedented technological advancement. Who knows what's coming.

0:41:24.360 --> 0:41:26.640
<v Speaker 2>There's guys that are messing with it. This is not

0:41:26.760 --> 0:41:29.359
<v Speaker 2>related to fishies. There's people that are messing with this

0:41:29.800 --> 0:41:31.960
<v Speaker 2>that you'd be able to take a scoop of water

0:41:32.640 --> 0:41:38.920
<v Speaker 2>out of a river and measure marine isotopes in the

0:41:39.000 --> 0:41:42.799
<v Speaker 2>water and tabulate that to how many salmon ran up

0:41:42.840 --> 0:41:43.239
<v Speaker 2>that river?

0:41:44.160 --> 0:41:44.640
<v Speaker 3>Amazing?

0:41:44.719 --> 0:41:48.600
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so it's like there's crazy stuff is on the horizon. Yeah,

0:41:48.640 --> 0:41:52.400
<v Speaker 2>So never mind live scope, But how are we going

0:41:52.480 --> 0:41:56.680
<v Speaker 2>to respond to unforeseen technologies in the future that are

0:41:56.719 --> 0:42:01.839
<v Speaker 2>going to completely rewrite hunting and fish and how are

0:42:01.840 --> 0:42:05.120
<v Speaker 2>we going to preserve traditional use? You could take two ways.

0:42:05.280 --> 0:42:06.200
<v Speaker 2>I feel like you either be.

0:42:06.160 --> 0:42:09.600
<v Speaker 6>Like I'm gonna I'm gonna preserve traditional use, or you're

0:42:09.600 --> 0:42:11.960
<v Speaker 6>gonna be like I'm gonna preserve technological advancement.

0:42:13.840 --> 0:42:15.440
<v Speaker 2>You can't like you have to be in one of

0:42:15.480 --> 0:42:19.120
<v Speaker 2>those camps. There's not gonna be room to not pick

0:42:19.160 --> 0:42:20.000
<v Speaker 2>one of those camps.

0:42:20.400 --> 0:42:23.759
<v Speaker 3>And the I think you had that example of a

0:42:23.880 --> 0:42:27.720
<v Speaker 3>laser range finder the other day, and it's pretty perfect.

0:42:27.760 --> 0:42:29.520
<v Speaker 3>It'd be harder, it'd be hard to come up with

0:42:29.560 --> 0:42:33.719
<v Speaker 3>something as a better example because it was like this

0:42:33.760 --> 0:42:37.400
<v Speaker 3>thing the military had. So I would say technological advancement

0:42:37.520 --> 0:42:42.600
<v Speaker 3>and availability right have to be tied together. So the

0:42:42.680 --> 0:42:45.320
<v Speaker 3>longer the technology is on the market, the more available

0:42:45.360 --> 0:42:50.880
<v Speaker 3>it becomes because it gets more prolific and more available

0:42:50.880 --> 0:42:52.680
<v Speaker 3>because of a lower and lower price points.

0:42:53.800 --> 0:42:55.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it could have been I don't know how many

0:42:55.520 --> 0:42:58.200
<v Speaker 2>years ago it would have been like and I'm going

0:42:58.239 --> 0:43:03.800
<v Speaker 2>to clarify, I use cellular cameras, I use a laser rangefinder, Okay,

0:43:03.920 --> 0:43:06.160
<v Speaker 2>I use I have. I just shot two turkeys of

0:43:06.200 --> 0:43:10.319
<v Speaker 2>spring with the red dot scope. Okay, I use technology.

0:43:10.800 --> 0:43:12.640
<v Speaker 2>So I'm not talking about I'm not coming from a

0:43:12.640 --> 0:43:15.760
<v Speaker 2>purist perspective. There's probably things that if it wasn't illegal,

0:43:15.800 --> 0:43:19.760
<v Speaker 2>maybe I would use it. I don't know, but picture

0:43:19.840 --> 0:43:22.399
<v Speaker 2>that whatever it was twenty years ago with laser range finders,

0:43:22.400 --> 0:43:24.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't even remember. Picture that someone had said the

0:43:25.000 --> 0:43:29.040
<v Speaker 2>minute the technology emerged and was finding military application or

0:43:29.080 --> 0:43:31.759
<v Speaker 2>whoever the hell started it out picture the game agencies

0:43:31.800 --> 0:43:38.399
<v Speaker 2>and said this is going to really revolutionize shooting. It's

0:43:38.400 --> 0:43:41.719
<v Speaker 2>going to change take. Uh, let's get away with it.

0:43:41.719 --> 0:43:44.759
<v Speaker 2>And you would just imagine this alternate reality where there

0:43:44.840 --> 0:43:46.880
<v Speaker 2>had been no one to resist it. Because if you

0:43:46.920 --> 0:43:49.000
<v Speaker 2>went in now and said, oh, you know, we're gonna back,

0:43:49.040 --> 0:43:50.479
<v Speaker 2>We're going to back, We're going to do a time

0:43:50.560 --> 0:43:54.960
<v Speaker 2>machine and back it up and no laser range finders. Dude,

0:43:55.800 --> 0:43:58.239
<v Speaker 2>right like our cade civil there be a civil war,

0:43:58.440 --> 0:43:59.680
<v Speaker 2>is it not? Is it not?

0:44:00.120 --> 0:44:02.799
<v Speaker 6>Like if you looked at the at the arc of

0:44:03.280 --> 0:44:08.320
<v Speaker 6>technology and hunting even in this country, I mean, maybe

0:44:08.480 --> 0:44:11.879
<v Speaker 6>we're this is like much ado about nothing, because there's

0:44:11.960 --> 0:44:16.960
<v Speaker 6>always increase of technology, always, and there's always a reduction,

0:44:18.080 --> 0:44:21.960
<v Speaker 6>a self imposed reduction on the amount of take. I mean,

0:44:22.000 --> 0:44:24.719
<v Speaker 6>because there was a time when you know, they were

0:44:24.800 --> 0:44:27.239
<v Speaker 6>using addleaddles, and I mean they could kill all they

0:44:27.239 --> 0:44:30.640
<v Speaker 6>wanted with an addle addle. Then we had bows and arrows,

0:44:30.680 --> 0:44:34.200
<v Speaker 6>and then we had muskets, and then we had repeating rifles,

0:44:34.760 --> 0:44:37.040
<v Speaker 6>and it got to the point where you know, they

0:44:37.080 --> 0:44:40.719
<v Speaker 6>were they killed them all. You know, the extirpation, and

0:44:40.760 --> 0:44:43.920
<v Speaker 6>then now the technology is so efficient that is it

0:44:44.000 --> 0:44:48.160
<v Speaker 6>not just going to a place where where season dates

0:44:48.200 --> 0:44:50.759
<v Speaker 6>are shorter? Sure, I mean, it's just it's just like, Okay,

0:44:50.760 --> 0:44:52.080
<v Speaker 6>if you want to play this game, we're going to

0:44:52.160 --> 0:44:54.080
<v Speaker 6>have to do it. Well, I mean, that's what you're saying.

0:44:54.080 --> 0:44:56.880
<v Speaker 6>But is that not just like what happens?

0:44:57.120 --> 0:44:59.600
<v Speaker 2>The answer to what happened when I was saying of

0:44:59.640 --> 0:45:01.239
<v Speaker 2>this journal sounds kind of like the second part of

0:45:01.239 --> 0:45:04.839
<v Speaker 2>what I explained is, let's just say you have a unit.

0:45:05.120 --> 0:45:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Let's say there's there's an area of space, an area

0:45:08.840 --> 0:45:14.239
<v Speaker 2>a landscape area, and it has and you determine that

0:45:14.440 --> 0:45:18.920
<v Speaker 2>there's one hundred deer that live in this area of space,

0:45:19.360 --> 0:45:24.240
<v Speaker 2>and you determine that there's a harvestable surplus of ten annually. Okay,

0:45:24.680 --> 0:45:27.480
<v Speaker 2>and you know that it's about a ten percent success rate.

0:45:27.960 --> 0:45:30.359
<v Speaker 2>Hunters of hunt that landscape have a ten percent success rate.

0:45:31.040 --> 0:45:37.319
<v Speaker 2>That creates opportunity. Okay, that creates opportunity for one hundred people.

0:45:37.400 --> 0:45:39.560
<v Speaker 2>Might do my math right, YEA hunter that creates opportunity

0:45:39.560 --> 0:45:42.960
<v Speaker 2>for one hundred people to pursue the resource, there's one

0:45:42.960 --> 0:45:45.160
<v Speaker 2>in ten chance they'll be successful. One hundred people take

0:45:45.160 --> 0:45:48.040
<v Speaker 2>a crack at it. Now you introduce a bunch of

0:45:48.880 --> 0:45:52.360
<v Speaker 2>tools where all of a sudden, now there's a fifty

0:45:52.400 --> 0:46:00.120
<v Speaker 2>percent success rate. Okay, what does that do to the opportunity.

0:46:00.440 --> 0:46:03.919
<v Speaker 2>Opportunity plummets. Yeah, you can only now I got twenty guys,

0:46:03.960 --> 0:46:05.960
<v Speaker 2>We're gonna have twenty guys hunt because half of them

0:46:05.960 --> 0:46:09.640
<v Speaker 2>are gonna bag out. Yeah, and that and like really

0:46:09.760 --> 0:46:14.319
<v Speaker 2>abbreviated form like that is one of the things you're

0:46:14.360 --> 0:46:18.160
<v Speaker 2>battling against. Like there's something more nostalgic too that you're

0:46:18.160 --> 0:46:23.400
<v Speaker 2>fighting against. Is you're fighting against like there is among

0:46:23.400 --> 0:46:28.080
<v Speaker 2>the sporting community. There's a reverence for woodsmanship, right and

0:46:28.600 --> 0:46:33.920
<v Speaker 2>learned like learned skill that time spent pays off that

0:46:34.040 --> 0:46:35.959
<v Speaker 2>learning about the resource, you know.

0:46:36.239 --> 0:46:39.960
<v Speaker 3>Learning about I mean, this is a weird thing to

0:46:39.960 --> 0:46:42.520
<v Speaker 3>say used to be because there's still nothing that can

0:46:42.640 --> 0:46:50.319
<v Speaker 3>replace like ground truthing something meaning walking it. But the

0:46:50.400 --> 0:46:56.600
<v Speaker 3>people who are really good at e scouting, looking at

0:46:56.640 --> 0:47:02.279
<v Speaker 3>satellite imagery, knowing the variety of maps and applications that

0:47:02.280 --> 0:47:06.080
<v Speaker 3>are available online Google Earth, cross referencing all of it

0:47:06.160 --> 0:47:10.839
<v Speaker 3>to get a better mental image and plan, and then

0:47:11.000 --> 0:47:16.840
<v Speaker 3>using software like on x, they can do so much

0:47:16.920 --> 0:47:21.560
<v Speaker 3>more that used to be only available to people who

0:47:21.560 --> 0:47:25.120
<v Speaker 3>have been like I have spent a decade in this drainage,

0:47:25.640 --> 0:47:29.120
<v Speaker 3>and I know the spot that you have to hike

0:47:29.200 --> 0:47:32.359
<v Speaker 3>to in order to actually be able to see this stuff, right,

0:47:32.640 --> 0:47:35.600
<v Speaker 3>like all that barren stuff. Actually, when you get up there,

0:47:35.920 --> 0:47:38.360
<v Speaker 3>the tree line's so high that you can't actually see.

0:47:38.400 --> 0:47:40.520
<v Speaker 3>So you have to be over here in this screen patch.

0:47:41.160 --> 0:47:44.120
<v Speaker 3>And I know that because I actually walked up there

0:47:44.120 --> 0:47:48.080
<v Speaker 3>and did it. Yep, right, it was like that stuff's

0:47:49.400 --> 0:47:52.480
<v Speaker 3>to a large degree has gone away if you are

0:47:52.520 --> 0:47:55.399
<v Speaker 3>effective at using all the tools that you're.

0:47:56.440 --> 0:47:59.000
<v Speaker 2>To a large extent, Yes, but you still like you

0:47:59.120 --> 0:48:02.840
<v Speaker 2>still need to ground check. You know, there's But you're right.

0:48:03.040 --> 0:48:05.480
<v Speaker 6>So at what point do we fought the technology? I mean,

0:48:05.480 --> 0:48:07.240
<v Speaker 6>that's the question that you're trying to answer.

0:48:07.920 --> 0:48:09.120
<v Speaker 2>Man, I'll tell you I don't.

0:48:09.160 --> 0:48:11.839
<v Speaker 5>When it becomes self aware, that comes after us.

0:48:12.280 --> 0:48:18.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like early, Yeah, early is the simple answer.

0:48:18.320 --> 0:48:23.640
<v Speaker 2>You got to make managers in the public. You gotta

0:48:26.200 --> 0:48:27.840
<v Speaker 2>why was it so clear with drones? I don't know

0:48:27.840 --> 0:48:29.080
<v Speaker 2>why were drones so clear?

0:48:29.120 --> 0:48:33.879
<v Speaker 5>And it's funny because like something like a laser rangefinder

0:48:34.400 --> 0:48:39.120
<v Speaker 5>or GPS, like a laser range finder makes people more

0:48:39.800 --> 0:48:42.680
<v Speaker 5>effective and maybe encourages I don't know if it encourages

0:48:42.760 --> 0:48:45.760
<v Speaker 5>the right word, but has led people to shoot longer

0:48:45.760 --> 0:48:49.520
<v Speaker 5>and longer distances and become have greater efficacy. But it's

0:48:49.560 --> 0:48:54.040
<v Speaker 5>also made people more effective within traditional ranges, right, And

0:48:54.120 --> 0:48:56.800
<v Speaker 5>so it has like an obvious benefit to the resource

0:48:57.440 --> 0:49:01.000
<v Speaker 5>in that sense, and that there's less perhaps what less

0:49:01.160 --> 0:49:05.640
<v Speaker 5>wounding loss and GPS like it, and it enables people

0:49:05.640 --> 0:49:08.440
<v Speaker 5>to go further and further into the back country and

0:49:08.560 --> 0:49:11.440
<v Speaker 5>have the impact on the resource over a wider area.

0:49:11.560 --> 0:49:14.360
<v Speaker 5>But it also has like an obvious safety use. And

0:49:14.400 --> 0:49:17.719
<v Speaker 5>I don't know what the redeeming quality of the drone is,

0:49:18.120 --> 0:49:20.400
<v Speaker 5>you know, like there's those other ones sort of have

0:49:23.520 --> 0:49:25.680
<v Speaker 5>you can make an argument for them in terms of

0:49:25.719 --> 0:49:29.600
<v Speaker 5>like the the benefit to the hunter outside of simply

0:49:30.560 --> 0:49:31.400
<v Speaker 5>killing more stuff.

0:49:31.480 --> 0:49:33.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, people like with laser range finders, people like the

0:49:33.880 --> 0:49:36.799
<v Speaker 2>folk people like the focus on people making shots they

0:49:36.800 --> 0:49:42.080
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't take, right, But you also can prevent you from

0:49:42.080 --> 0:49:46.040
<v Speaker 2>making shots you shouldn't take because it puts a number

0:49:46.080 --> 0:49:47.759
<v Speaker 2>to it, Yeah, to the gut check.

0:49:47.920 --> 0:49:51.880
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's not like, oh, it's probably three hundred yards yep,

0:49:51.960 --> 0:49:52.920
<v Speaker 5>you know, and then you're.

0:49:52.840 --> 0:49:55.319
<v Speaker 6>You know, with a drone, you could you could make

0:49:55.320 --> 0:49:58.080
<v Speaker 6>an argument that would help you with selection, you know,

0:49:58.200 --> 0:50:01.279
<v Speaker 6>like like if you were hyper managing a place, like

0:50:01.320 --> 0:50:04.640
<v Speaker 6>we're only taking this type of animal. I mean, I'm

0:50:04.640 --> 0:50:09.120
<v Speaker 6>not like you said, those drones help me to pick

0:50:09.280 --> 0:50:12.200
<v Speaker 6>the animal for conservation that needs to be taken out.

0:50:12.280 --> 0:50:15.560
<v Speaker 3>So what would hunting be though? Okay, like we ran

0:50:16.320 --> 0:50:19.960
<v Speaker 3>things to the extreme because that's where we what we

0:50:20.000 --> 0:50:23.200
<v Speaker 3>do with these conversations, right, So we we we're in

0:50:23.280 --> 0:50:29.480
<v Speaker 3>agreement that increased technology can lead to increased harvest, which

0:50:29.560 --> 0:50:35.120
<v Speaker 3>leads to shortened seasons. So what happens if two hunting

0:50:35.440 --> 0:50:40.400
<v Speaker 3>in general? If yeah, you can use everything at your disposal,

0:50:40.920 --> 0:50:45.920
<v Speaker 3>you name it, technology wise, weapon wise, whatever. Uh, but

0:50:46.080 --> 0:50:47.840
<v Speaker 3>the season for that is one.

0:50:47.760 --> 0:50:50.600
<v Speaker 2>Day, right, Yeah?

0:50:51.160 --> 0:50:53.880
<v Speaker 6>I mean it changes the whole game, right, It changes

0:50:53.960 --> 0:50:55.760
<v Speaker 6>the lifestyle.

0:50:55.640 --> 0:50:57.799
<v Speaker 3>Changes I think, Yeah, I.

0:50:57.680 --> 0:51:02.160
<v Speaker 6>Mean it really does, because there's no Yeah, it changes everything.

0:51:02.160 --> 0:51:04.359
<v Speaker 6>But would they be and I mean this goes back

0:51:04.400 --> 0:51:08.000
<v Speaker 6>to Steve's point, like, is that not what Daniel Boone

0:51:08.120 --> 0:51:11.040
<v Speaker 6>and these long hunters would say about us? Would they

0:51:11.120 --> 0:51:14.719
<v Speaker 6>be like you guys, oh of course, and and but

0:51:14.800 --> 0:51:18.760
<v Speaker 6>then we're sitting here and we're like, man, we're we're really,

0:51:19.239 --> 0:51:22.040
<v Speaker 6>we're woodsman. We we've experienced the wild. We're doing it

0:51:22.080 --> 0:51:22.279
<v Speaker 6>the right.

0:51:23.440 --> 0:51:27.839
<v Speaker 2>It's like it's hate, you know, I hate when people

0:51:27.840 --> 0:51:31.640
<v Speaker 2>say it it's all relative. Yeah, and it's there's a change.

0:51:31.760 --> 0:51:34.440
<v Speaker 2>It's just like do you do spikes? Because if we're

0:51:34.440 --> 0:51:36.800
<v Speaker 2>gonna go back, historically we would say, Okay, the vehicle,

0:51:37.120 --> 0:51:42.080
<v Speaker 2>I mean the vehicles huge impact on hunting. Yeah, as

0:51:42.200 --> 0:51:45.680
<v Speaker 2>Randall pointed out, and way long ago podcasts, the advent

0:51:45.800 --> 0:51:50.160
<v Speaker 2>of the freezer that used to not used to not

0:51:50.239 --> 0:51:54.800
<v Speaker 2>have a freezer. Freezer's changed how people hunting fish.

0:51:55.880 --> 0:51:58.960
<v Speaker 5>The other the other one that I just thinking back

0:51:59.000 --> 0:52:01.760
<v Speaker 5>on some of the research that I did. I remember

0:52:01.800 --> 0:52:03.960
<v Speaker 5>looking at a field and stream from like the seventies

0:52:04.360 --> 0:52:08.040
<v Speaker 5>and there was an article sort of touting this new

0:52:09.200 --> 0:52:14.080
<v Speaker 5>product which is a poison arrow Mississippi. Yeah and so and.

0:52:14.160 --> 0:52:16.040
<v Speaker 3>So it was like pods yeah, and.

0:52:16.000 --> 0:52:19.200
<v Speaker 5>So it was just like uh and and this article

0:52:19.239 --> 0:52:21.960
<v Speaker 5>talked about how some fish and game agencies were getting

0:52:22.000 --> 0:52:25.400
<v Speaker 5>ahead of it and banning poison arrow. But the advocates

0:52:25.400 --> 0:52:27.319
<v Speaker 5>are saying, well this this means if you just hit

0:52:27.360 --> 0:52:29.920
<v Speaker 5>an animal, it's gonna die, and you won't wound a

0:52:29.960 --> 0:52:32.520
<v Speaker 5>deer and have it run off, So why wouldn't you poison?

0:52:32.560 --> 0:52:34.520
<v Speaker 2>I was with these guys in Mississippi and they use

0:52:34.560 --> 0:52:36.399
<v Speaker 2>them with their kids. They say, if that kid gets

0:52:36.400 --> 0:52:38.600
<v Speaker 2>a piece of that deer anywhere, that deer is dead

0:52:38.680 --> 0:52:41.920
<v Speaker 2>or a door naill, ye I wonder anywhere.

0:52:41.960 --> 0:52:45.080
<v Speaker 5>But it's like something that's so foreign to most people today.

0:52:45.280 --> 0:52:47.719
<v Speaker 5>But in that article, it was sort of like, what

0:52:47.760 --> 0:52:49.200
<v Speaker 5>do we do with this technology?

0:52:49.640 --> 0:52:49.880
<v Speaker 1>You know?

0:52:49.960 --> 0:52:51.720
<v Speaker 5>And it's it is context.

0:52:51.360 --> 0:52:53.239
<v Speaker 2>And there's a traditional use practice because they used to

0:52:53.320 --> 0:52:57.000
<v Speaker 2>use Strict nine. Even fur hunters used to use Strict nine.

0:52:57.680 --> 0:53:01.640
<v Speaker 2>So what does it It was a technology being able

0:53:01.640 --> 0:53:06.280
<v Speaker 2>to develop and deliver poison wasn't emerging technology. It became

0:53:06.320 --> 0:53:08.960
<v Speaker 2>a traditional use practice. And now everyone in the room

0:53:09.000 --> 0:53:12.400
<v Speaker 2>would agree you shouldn't be able to poison for bearing

0:53:12.440 --> 0:53:17.560
<v Speaker 2>animals for the fur market. Everyone agrees. Well, Texas and

0:53:17.600 --> 0:53:24.040
<v Speaker 2>Oklahoma have both now certified a hog poison, A wild

0:53:24.040 --> 0:53:25.839
<v Speaker 2>hog poison, yeah, made by.

0:53:25.800 --> 0:53:28.200
<v Speaker 3>Caput Caput Industries.

0:53:30.000 --> 0:53:34.759
<v Speaker 6>It's Tennessee bear houndsman one time, and they take a

0:53:34.800 --> 0:53:37.239
<v Speaker 6>lot of criticism for running bears with hounds and all this,

0:53:37.440 --> 0:53:42.840
<v Speaker 6>and he said, he said, he said, yeah, I used

0:53:42.840 --> 0:53:46.319
<v Speaker 6>hounds to hunt bears here. And he was talking about

0:53:46.360 --> 0:53:49.600
<v Speaker 6>criticism from inside the hunting community. But he's like, you'll

0:53:49.600 --> 0:53:52.840
<v Speaker 6>get in your truck and drive twenty five hundred miles

0:53:52.880 --> 0:53:55.680
<v Speaker 6>in a pickup truck to go hunt an elk with

0:53:55.719 --> 0:53:58.600
<v Speaker 6>a bow or you know, with a rifle.

0:53:58.680 --> 0:54:02.120
<v Speaker 2>And he's like, really good point. It was like, Okay, so.

0:54:02.080 --> 0:54:05.760
<v Speaker 6>You're mad at me for using this ancient practice.

0:54:05.760 --> 0:54:07.800
<v Speaker 2>Why don't you point out the guy that flies across

0:54:07.800 --> 0:54:11.560
<v Speaker 2>the country to hunt for the weekend. Yeah, talk about technology. Yeah,

0:54:12.040 --> 0:54:14.239
<v Speaker 2>I do want to an emails with his buddy about

0:54:14.239 --> 0:54:15.279
<v Speaker 2>what weekend he should go.

0:54:16.040 --> 0:54:20.960
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, if I should use carrier pigeons for all hunting correspondence,

0:54:20.960 --> 0:54:21.840
<v Speaker 6>that's what me and Randall do.

0:54:21.960 --> 0:54:28.400
<v Speaker 3>Oh frequently, could like magically transport Daniel Boone here for like,

0:54:28.480 --> 0:54:31.440
<v Speaker 3>do you think he'd even give a crap about like

0:54:31.480 --> 0:54:33.400
<v Speaker 3>the hunting side of things or you think he'd just

0:54:33.400 --> 0:54:36.000
<v Speaker 3>be like, so you're telling me, you guys are all

0:54:36.000 --> 0:54:39.680
<v Speaker 3>sitting here. You've never survived a typhus outbreak, never survived

0:54:39.760 --> 0:54:40.600
<v Speaker 3>yellow fever.

0:54:40.560 --> 0:54:41.799
<v Speaker 2>But you guys doing the Willman night.

0:54:44.239 --> 0:54:46.680
<v Speaker 5>He'd be horrified by the witchcraft we have wrapped around

0:54:46.719 --> 0:54:47.520
<v Speaker 5>our heads right now.

0:54:47.920 --> 0:54:50.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's just or would he care or he'd be

0:54:50.680 --> 0:54:54.120
<v Speaker 2>right in the middle of it. But I want to

0:54:54.160 --> 0:54:55.120
<v Speaker 2>move on to another subject.

0:54:55.200 --> 0:54:59.320
<v Speaker 6>But this is another subject we've discussed on the podcast.

0:54:59.600 --> 0:55:03.280
<v Speaker 2>But I don't okay, we don't need to move on. Sorry,

0:55:03.719 --> 0:55:09.160
<v Speaker 2>But it's like it's when looking at this kind of

0:55:09.160 --> 0:55:11.480
<v Speaker 2>stuff you can get you can wind up throwing your

0:55:11.480 --> 0:55:13.160
<v Speaker 2>hands in the air. You'd be like, well, what about

0:55:13.239 --> 0:55:15.359
<v Speaker 2>Daniel Boone and they used to use black powder? Now

0:55:15.400 --> 0:55:17.960
<v Speaker 2>we've got airplanes, and throw your hands in the air

0:55:19.040 --> 0:55:25.240
<v Speaker 2>and just say whatever, okay, whatever, it's all changed anyway,

0:55:25.760 --> 0:55:31.160
<v Speaker 2>or you can say, yes, I recognize that we've come

0:55:31.239 --> 0:55:33.920
<v Speaker 2>a long long way in a couple hundred years, and

0:55:33.960 --> 0:55:37.440
<v Speaker 2>we've had all these emerging technologies that have all rewritten

0:55:37.719 --> 0:55:42.120
<v Speaker 2>stuff and we've had to adapt along the way. I

0:55:42.200 --> 0:55:44.360
<v Speaker 2>get all that. I get all that that when you

0:55:44.400 --> 0:55:46.759
<v Speaker 2>look at it in a fine with like under a

0:55:46.840 --> 0:55:50.239
<v Speaker 2>fine you know, like a certain lens, you look at

0:55:50.320 --> 0:55:53.560
<v Speaker 2>it all, it all seems ridiculous after all of this.

0:55:53.640 --> 0:56:00.759
<v Speaker 2>Who cares about that? Right? Well? I care about that, like, like,

0:56:01.120 --> 0:56:04.200
<v Speaker 2>I get it. But we're still here in the present day,

0:56:04.840 --> 0:56:06.839
<v Speaker 2>and we still have a changing landscape and we still

0:56:06.880 --> 0:56:08.799
<v Speaker 2>have to make decisions. And I don't think that looking

0:56:08.840 --> 0:56:10.920
<v Speaker 2>at all the things that we didn't do and all

0:56:10.920 --> 0:56:15.200
<v Speaker 2>the inevitability. There still are some things like drones, like

0:56:15.280 --> 0:56:19.680
<v Speaker 2>poison and I'm in no way bucketing live scope. I

0:56:20.080 --> 0:56:22.799
<v Speaker 2>don't really have a formed opinion about this yet. I'm

0:56:22.800 --> 0:56:27.080
<v Speaker 2>just saying we will have to deal with this and

0:56:27.960 --> 0:56:31.759
<v Speaker 2>a lifetime worth of other things, some things that just

0:56:31.840 --> 0:56:34.840
<v Speaker 2>might seem from sitting here today, it might seem fantastical.

0:56:35.600 --> 0:56:37.600
<v Speaker 2>It might come up and it be that it takes

0:56:37.640 --> 0:56:40.960
<v Speaker 2>a lifetime to learn a lake, okay, and now you

0:56:41.000 --> 0:56:45.600
<v Speaker 2>can learn well side view and all that. Maybe it doesn't.

0:56:45.719 --> 0:56:48.719
<v Speaker 2>Maybe in an afternoon you can grid a lake and

0:56:48.760 --> 0:56:50.359
<v Speaker 2>be like, I'll tell you how many fish are there,

0:56:50.480 --> 0:56:55.120
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you where they're at. Right? Is that.

0:56:56.840 --> 0:56:57.319
<v Speaker 3>About this?

0:56:57.400 --> 0:56:59.960
<v Speaker 6>What if think about like what the Boone and Crockett

0:57:00.040 --> 0:57:03.279
<v Speaker 6>Club did in eighteen eighty seven when they kind of

0:57:03.400 --> 0:57:08.160
<v Speaker 6>reformulated the way that our culture looked at and managed wildlife,

0:57:08.200 --> 0:57:11.120
<v Speaker 6>you know, the simple version being going from market hunting

0:57:11.520 --> 0:57:15.279
<v Speaker 6>to the sport hunting, Which, like, what if there's a

0:57:15.440 --> 0:57:20.320
<v Speaker 6>time some decades from now when there requires that kind

0:57:20.320 --> 0:57:21.440
<v Speaker 6>of paradigm shift.

0:57:21.600 --> 0:57:22.840
<v Speaker 2>Sure, did you see what I'm saying?

0:57:22.920 --> 0:57:25.800
<v Speaker 6>Like this paradigm shift that was and yeah, yeah, like

0:57:25.960 --> 0:57:28.600
<v Speaker 6>there's there was a paradigm shift that had to take place,

0:57:28.680 --> 0:57:32.240
<v Speaker 6>honestly because of technology and markets and increase of people

0:57:32.720 --> 0:57:35.800
<v Speaker 6>and all this stuff. Like it's hard to foresee what

0:57:35.840 --> 0:57:38.800
<v Speaker 6>that would be, but what if the take and there

0:57:38.840 --> 0:57:41.080
<v Speaker 6>was so much pressure on the resource and there was

0:57:41.120 --> 0:57:43.120
<v Speaker 6>this group of people that were like, hey, you know,

0:57:43.200 --> 0:57:44.440
<v Speaker 6>like what that shift would be.

0:57:44.720 --> 0:57:46.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's funny because this is the thing I like

0:57:46.600 --> 0:57:55.000
<v Speaker 2>to point out to people how celebrated Teddy Roosevelt is today. Okay,

0:57:55.040 --> 0:58:00.360
<v Speaker 2>the carvers facing Rushmore, Right, any politician would appreciate a

0:58:00.440 --> 0:58:05.080
<v Speaker 2>favorable comparison to Teddy Roosevelt. There's no politician that would

0:58:05.080 --> 0:58:08.480
<v Speaker 2>turn down. I take that back now, because there's certain

0:58:09.560 --> 0:58:14.960
<v Speaker 2>most Okay, most politicians would welcome a favorable comparison to

0:58:15.000 --> 0:58:18.920
<v Speaker 2>the conservation record of Theodore Roosevelt. But let's take a

0:58:18.920 --> 0:58:25.160
<v Speaker 2>look at the time. Here's a guy saying he proposed

0:58:25.160 --> 0:58:26.800
<v Speaker 2>this whole paradigm shift. He's like, you know what, let's

0:58:26.800 --> 0:58:31.080
<v Speaker 2>not use wildlife for making money. Let's use wildlife as

0:58:31.120 --> 0:58:35.800
<v Speaker 2>a recreational resource. Not only that, let's take huge chunks

0:58:35.800 --> 0:58:39.800
<v Speaker 2>of the landscape and set it aside from industrial development.

0:58:40.560 --> 0:58:44.920
<v Speaker 2>An industrial exploitation and take it off the record. He

0:58:44.920 --> 0:58:54.480
<v Speaker 2>would have been he would have been a tree hugging libtard, right, yeah,

0:58:54.720 --> 0:58:59.920
<v Speaker 2>he would have sat somewhere below Gavin Newsome to propose

0:59:00.160 --> 0:59:01.160
<v Speaker 2>that stuff today.

0:59:02.320 --> 0:59:03.080
<v Speaker 5>He's locking it all.

0:59:03.280 --> 0:59:10.000
<v Speaker 2>They would have crucified him today. But now there's a

0:59:10.200 --> 0:59:11.320
<v Speaker 2>conservation seconds.

0:59:11.880 --> 0:59:14.480
<v Speaker 6>And when we talk about the guy that wanted to

0:59:14.600 --> 0:59:16.720
<v Speaker 6>end market hunting and close off.

0:59:16.480 --> 0:59:18.840
<v Speaker 2>All the land, that's a good point.

0:59:18.680 --> 0:59:22.080
<v Speaker 3>Would we talk about And that's why this is not

0:59:22.960 --> 0:59:26.160
<v Speaker 3>simple in any way. But when we talk about regulating

0:59:26.200 --> 0:59:35.520
<v Speaker 3>a technology for wildlife, we're also talking about regulating an industry.

0:59:33.680 --> 0:59:36.960
<v Speaker 6>Right, yeah, right, And because you know the live scope

0:59:37.000 --> 0:59:39.920
<v Speaker 6>sonar boys aren't like a live scope band.

0:59:39.800 --> 0:59:41.200
<v Speaker 3>Right, or just bikes.

0:59:41.240 --> 0:59:44.160
<v Speaker 5>The archery industry is like no more boats, guys, the

0:59:44.920 --> 0:59:46.520
<v Speaker 5>twenty twenty five line of bows?

0:59:46.640 --> 0:59:48.880
<v Speaker 2>Is it? Well? This journalists want to talk about e

0:59:48.960 --> 0:59:49.520
<v Speaker 2>bikes too?

0:59:49.640 --> 0:59:55.320
<v Speaker 3>Oh really awesome? Let off for compound bows. He can't

0:59:55.320 --> 0:59:58.240
<v Speaker 3>be over a percentage, you got. You know, there's all

0:59:58.280 --> 1:00:03.200
<v Speaker 3>sorts of things that regulating technology would regulate industry, which

1:00:03.280 --> 1:00:06.800
<v Speaker 3>is you know, not something that we really want to

1:00:06.840 --> 1:00:10.040
<v Speaker 3>do in America in general.

1:00:10.120 --> 1:00:12.440
<v Speaker 2>Right, here's one for you. How did it come to be.

1:00:12.560 --> 1:00:14.120
<v Speaker 2>Maybe one of you guys knows. The answer is, how

1:00:14.120 --> 1:00:16.600
<v Speaker 2>did it come to be that you can't use a laser,

1:00:18.240 --> 1:00:19.840
<v Speaker 2>you can't use something to project light?

1:00:20.000 --> 1:00:22.120
<v Speaker 6>Oh yeah, I don't know that. Why did no one

1:00:22.320 --> 1:00:25.200
<v Speaker 6>get there? Why did no one get worked up about that?

1:00:26.320 --> 1:00:28.439
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. Boy, you talk to pilots, they're sure

1:00:29.120 --> 1:00:31.240
<v Speaker 3>serious about because people with lasers, Like.

1:00:31.360 --> 1:00:33.040
<v Speaker 5>People saw it in the movies when the red dot

1:00:33.080 --> 1:00:34.160
<v Speaker 5>appears and they're like, that.

1:00:34.080 --> 1:00:37.360
<v Speaker 2>Looks pretty pretty easy. Yeah, no one raised a fuss

1:00:37.400 --> 1:00:39.919
<v Speaker 2>when state said you can't use anything to project the light.

1:00:41.320 --> 1:00:44.960
<v Speaker 7>And this is the technology discussion happens with like every

1:00:45.080 --> 1:00:48.360
<v Speaker 7>hobby that you could think of. Really yeah, like right now,

1:00:48.440 --> 1:00:52.480
<v Speaker 7>in golfing, they recently determined last golf balls have gotten

1:00:52.480 --> 1:00:56.080
<v Speaker 7>too good and they're doing a rollback. By twenty twenty eight,

1:00:56.280 --> 1:01:00.280
<v Speaker 7>professional golfers have to use like a more archaic golf

1:01:00.280 --> 1:01:04.200
<v Speaker 7>ball than by twenty thirty. If you're a recreational golfer,

1:01:04.280 --> 1:01:07.560
<v Speaker 7>you need to start using a more archaic golf.

1:01:07.560 --> 1:01:09.920
<v Speaker 3>That makes sense because otherwise they have to redo golf courses.

1:01:10.280 --> 1:01:14.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they appreciate listen, but it's every hobby, think about

1:01:14.920 --> 1:01:17.360
<v Speaker 2>it the whole But that thing the whole structures make believe.

1:01:17.880 --> 1:01:20.440
<v Speaker 7>Well, there's like there's like all believe and you know

1:01:20.560 --> 1:01:23.360
<v Speaker 7>this is like real, like that this is so our wildlife.

1:01:23.560 --> 1:01:25.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I appreciate the effort.

1:01:25.640 --> 1:01:27.720
<v Speaker 8>It's it's like maybe country.

1:01:27.760 --> 1:01:29.760
<v Speaker 3>Is huge laser range finder.

1:01:30.320 --> 1:01:34.680
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, Marschnelle like created that about to make songs or

1:01:34.800 --> 1:01:37.720
<v Speaker 7>or country music artist Clay Nukom. Maybe he doesn't like

1:01:37.760 --> 1:01:40.120
<v Speaker 7>auto tune, he says, no more auto tune, got to

1:01:40.120 --> 1:01:40.880
<v Speaker 7>tune it by ear.

1:01:41.880 --> 1:01:43.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I like that little sports to a bit. There.

1:01:44.680 --> 1:01:48.360
<v Speaker 2>Here's a lot that's funny. Here's what it's funny. We

1:01:48.400 --> 1:01:49.800
<v Speaker 2>had a podcast guest online.

1:01:49.800 --> 1:01:52.440
<v Speaker 3>All right, if you're in Wisconsin, know that this is

1:01:52.480 --> 1:01:55.480
<v Speaker 3>something that's coming up and it's just attention to.

1:01:57.920 --> 1:01:59.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Yeah, so if you want to go back and

1:02:00.080 --> 1:02:02.080
<v Speaker 2>time and not listen to that whole thing, there's your

1:02:02.120 --> 1:02:05.080
<v Speaker 2>wrap up. That's up Wisconsin.

1:02:05.400 --> 1:02:17.000
<v Speaker 1>They're coming for your Walleye acquisition tools.

1:02:18.560 --> 1:02:18.680
<v Speaker 6>Uh.

1:02:18.880 --> 1:02:20.800
<v Speaker 2>Here's a funny one. And I'm surprised that this guy

1:02:20.920 --> 1:02:23.240
<v Speaker 2>liked it. So in the past we had on Bob Reid,

1:02:23.280 --> 1:02:28.040
<v Speaker 2>who's a Python expert. Bob Reid, I later learned. I

1:02:28.080 --> 1:02:32.120
<v Speaker 2>don't know if you know the story, doctor Bob the

1:02:32.240 --> 1:02:36.280
<v Speaker 2>real doctor. He's a real doctor, nice doctor, Bob Reid.

1:02:36.320 --> 1:02:39.120
<v Speaker 2>He's he's like a herpetologist or something. Right, Yeah, he

1:02:39.160 --> 1:02:41.040
<v Speaker 2>works on he's with the USGS.

1:02:41.120 --> 1:02:42.600
<v Speaker 3>He's working on birds now though.

1:02:42.680 --> 1:02:44.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh at the time he was put on that he

1:02:44.560 --> 1:02:46.480
<v Speaker 2>was doing a bunch of work around pythons in Florida.

1:02:48.680 --> 1:02:50.280
<v Speaker 2>We hunted with a guy in Florida. And the guy

1:02:50.280 --> 1:02:53.640
<v Speaker 2>in Florida's talking about his hunting mentor just hates me

1:02:55.280 --> 1:02:59.200
<v Speaker 2>because I didn't push back on Bob Reid when Bob

1:02:59.280 --> 1:03:06.160
<v Speaker 2>Reid explained to all this python catching, Python rodeos, python catchable,

1:03:06.800 --> 1:03:13.200
<v Speaker 2>python has zero impact that there's like when you look

1:03:13.200 --> 1:03:17.280
<v Speaker 2>at the numbers like python. Go back and listen to

1:03:17.320 --> 1:03:17.800
<v Speaker 2>the podcast.

1:03:17.800 --> 1:03:19.800
<v Speaker 5>So the guy who hates you is mad that you

1:03:20.000 --> 1:03:22.080
<v Speaker 5>didn't make that point or diet.

1:03:23.120 --> 1:03:25.280
<v Speaker 2>Apparently he's maybe a Python catcher. I don't know if

1:03:25.280 --> 1:03:27.760
<v Speaker 2>it's funny that he was so mad that I didn't

1:03:27.760 --> 1:03:31.680
<v Speaker 2>push back on the guy who models Python populations.

1:03:31.800 --> 1:03:33.680
<v Speaker 5>He didn't like to suggest that he wasn't making.

1:03:33.480 --> 1:03:40.160
<v Speaker 2>A difference for pointing out that mechanically removing pythons has

1:03:40.280 --> 1:03:42.520
<v Speaker 2>and and go back and listen to the episode. Not

1:03:42.640 --> 1:03:45.920
<v Speaker 2>my you know, follow the science like not my science.

1:03:46.200 --> 1:03:50.520
<v Speaker 2>Bob Reid, a guy that models Burmese python populations in Florida,

1:03:50.600 --> 1:03:55.919
<v Speaker 2>pointing out that that is all just whistling Dixie has

1:03:56.200 --> 1:04:01.760
<v Speaker 2>no implications. Driving up on those levees picking up snakes

1:04:01.760 --> 1:04:06.200
<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean anything, just like anyone would admit shooting carp

1:04:06.520 --> 1:04:14.360
<v Speaker 2>don't matter. Shooting carp don't matter anyhow. That guy, Bob Reid,

1:04:14.520 --> 1:04:16.919
<v Speaker 2>who gave me sitting in my office is a one

1:04:16.960 --> 1:04:19.920
<v Speaker 2>court jar of genuine snake oil. He gave me a

1:04:19.960 --> 1:04:22.880
<v Speaker 2>jar of genuine snake oil rendered off of Burmese python.

1:04:23.680 --> 1:04:26.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm surprised, Bob, that this article tickled you the way

1:04:26.520 --> 1:04:26.960
<v Speaker 2>that it did.

1:04:27.760 --> 1:04:30.160
<v Speaker 6>Have you used that oil for anything, yet no saving

1:04:30.160 --> 1:04:35.880
<v Speaker 6>it for toothaches, bad fowls, rheumatism, stuff like that. When

1:04:36.320 --> 1:04:38.800
<v Speaker 6>I was in Guyana, it was frowned upon to kill

1:04:38.840 --> 1:04:41.000
<v Speaker 6>a it's frowned upon to kill an anaconda.

1:04:41.520 --> 1:04:43.880
<v Speaker 2>But they said that two things they told me that

1:04:43.960 --> 1:04:46.920
<v Speaker 2>was interesting. Old people can kill them to get the

1:04:46.960 --> 1:04:52.280
<v Speaker 2>fat for arthritis. And he said that touching an anaconda

1:04:52.400 --> 1:04:56.000
<v Speaker 2>with a bow is lethal to the anaconda, but it's

1:04:56.040 --> 1:04:58.520
<v Speaker 2>a painful death and it takes a long time. But

1:04:58.640 --> 1:05:00.360
<v Speaker 2>touching it with a different kind of stick will not

1:05:00.480 --> 1:05:02.920
<v Speaker 2>kill it. But if you were to touch it with

1:05:02.960 --> 1:05:05.560
<v Speaker 2>the limb of a bow, it will die later.

1:05:06.360 --> 1:05:08.760
<v Speaker 7>Do you think you're gonna die with that quart of

1:05:09.680 --> 1:05:13.840
<v Speaker 7>snake oil? Still? They're not unused, Like it's gonna kill me?

1:05:14.000 --> 1:05:14.040
<v Speaker 6>No?

1:05:14.080 --> 1:05:15.640
<v Speaker 2>No, Like are you going.

1:05:15.520 --> 1:05:17.040
<v Speaker 5>To be able to pull the trigger?

1:05:17.160 --> 1:05:19.280
<v Speaker 2>Well? I think about putting it in the auction House

1:05:19.280 --> 1:05:21.800
<v Speaker 2>of Oddities, and I think about, I don't know, I

1:05:21.840 --> 1:05:24.479
<v Speaker 2>haven't said what I'm gonna do it yet, probably gonna

1:05:24.560 --> 1:05:26.520
<v Speaker 2>at some point it's gonna go bad on me. You

1:05:26.560 --> 1:05:28.760
<v Speaker 2>just need to leave it in a jar.

1:05:28.960 --> 1:05:30.560
<v Speaker 6>You can split it in two, you know, have like

1:05:30.560 --> 1:05:33.720
<v Speaker 6>two small jars and put it in the windows like decoration.

1:05:34.040 --> 1:05:36.600
<v Speaker 6>It'll last the rest of your life.

1:05:38.880 --> 1:05:39.280
<v Speaker 2>Uh.

1:05:39.480 --> 1:05:41.680
<v Speaker 3>Clay pointed out earlier that yeah, you should be rubbing

1:05:41.720 --> 1:05:42.560
<v Speaker 3>that stuff in your hair.

1:05:43.320 --> 1:05:45.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, faking it up.

1:05:45.040 --> 1:05:47.480
<v Speaker 6>I mean cures balding obviously.

1:05:47.520 --> 1:05:49.439
<v Speaker 2>Well look at yeah I believe that was your head. Yeah,

1:05:49.600 --> 1:05:56.080
<v Speaker 2>my goodness, Okay, Bob Reid, like this this is like, listen,

1:05:56.360 --> 1:06:00.360
<v Speaker 2>God bless these researchers just seems so silly. So some

1:06:00.400 --> 1:06:12.560
<v Speaker 2>researchers did a thing where they in California they put GPS. Okay,

1:06:13.600 --> 1:06:16.000
<v Speaker 2>our friend, this is Carean writing our friend Bobber. He'd

1:06:16.040 --> 1:06:18.320
<v Speaker 2>sent this to us. It's very interesting, he says, I've

1:06:18.360 --> 1:06:21.760
<v Speaker 2>never seen habitat selection methods applied to people, but it's

1:06:21.760 --> 1:06:25.480
<v Speaker 2>a cool concept. Kind of a bummer that road hunters

1:06:25.480 --> 1:06:31.120
<v Speaker 2>appear to have higher success rates. So these people did

1:06:31.120 --> 1:06:33.200
<v Speaker 2>a study as though they needed to figure this out,

1:06:33.240 --> 1:06:34.600
<v Speaker 2>like you know how you look at you put radio

1:06:34.640 --> 1:06:37.080
<v Speaker 2>collars on links, like for instance, we've had a researcher

1:06:37.120 --> 1:06:40.400
<v Speaker 2>on the podcast and they're wondering, how do links use

1:06:40.680 --> 1:06:44.880
<v Speaker 2>burned over territory, meaning when you when there's a big

1:06:44.920 --> 1:06:48.080
<v Speaker 2>giant forest fire in the Northern Cascades and you knuke

1:06:48.120 --> 1:06:54.640
<v Speaker 2>the place creators leave. Uh, let's take so that's narrowing

1:06:54.680 --> 1:06:56.880
<v Speaker 2>it look like, okay, take let's take links. At what

1:06:57.200 --> 1:07:00.440
<v Speaker 2>point in succession does a link say I'm going to

1:07:00.480 --> 1:07:03.480
<v Speaker 2>move back in. It's now gotten to a point where

1:07:03.480 --> 1:07:06.640
<v Speaker 2>I like it again, right, And they find that that

1:07:07.200 --> 1:07:09.560
<v Speaker 2>as it grows, it gets to a point where they

1:07:09.560 --> 1:07:12.840
<v Speaker 2>weave in and out and they start utilizing it, but

1:07:12.840 --> 1:07:15.439
<v Speaker 2>they don't want to stand it. And then it gets

1:07:15.480 --> 1:07:17.280
<v Speaker 2>to a point where they're like, I'm moving back in

1:07:18.160 --> 1:07:21.080
<v Speaker 2>and they move back in Okay, So that's like habitat us.

1:07:21.160 --> 1:07:25.760
<v Speaker 2>It's super interesting research, especially in the era of megafiers. Right,

1:07:25.800 --> 1:07:28.280
<v Speaker 2>so how will megafiers like what does it do for wildlife?

1:07:28.320 --> 1:07:30.600
<v Speaker 2>And we all everyone watches that you place will burn

1:07:30.880 --> 1:07:33.320
<v Speaker 2>and we'll say, man, that's gonna be sweet. DRNL hunting

1:07:35.760 --> 1:07:38.800
<v Speaker 2>insert time period, right, and then it usually gets to

1:07:38.800 --> 1:07:42.240
<v Speaker 2>a point where it sucks. It gets like it's it's

1:07:42.360 --> 1:07:48.040
<v Speaker 2>it's nuked, it gets really good, it gets no good,

1:07:48.680 --> 1:07:52.800
<v Speaker 2>and then eventually returns just being normal. You know. Well,

1:07:52.840 --> 1:07:54.920
<v Speaker 2>they're looking at how to hunters use habitat and I

1:07:54.920 --> 1:07:56.280
<v Speaker 2>just don't think they needed to go through all the

1:07:56.320 --> 1:07:57.760
<v Speaker 2>hass So they did to do it, but they put

1:07:57.800 --> 1:08:01.600
<v Speaker 2>GPS monitors on hunters. They found the hunters hunt. They

1:08:01.640 --> 1:08:06.280
<v Speaker 2>found that hunters hunt three ways. Where is this They

1:08:06.360 --> 1:08:15.360
<v Speaker 2>hunt one second, coursing, stalking, sit and wait. They determined

1:08:15.400 --> 1:08:23.679
<v Speaker 2>that hunters course around, they still hunt, hunters will stalk stuff,

1:08:24.520 --> 1:08:31.840
<v Speaker 2>and hunters will sit and watch. Now and here's the

1:08:31.880 --> 1:08:33.679
<v Speaker 2>breaking news. It kind of depends where you're at.

1:08:35.680 --> 1:08:37.759
<v Speaker 7>I've never heard of it referred to as coursing.

1:08:39.439 --> 1:08:42.920
<v Speaker 5>I think it's a biological concept. When they study like

1:08:42.920 --> 1:08:44.240
<v Speaker 5>how predators find prey.

1:08:44.880 --> 1:08:47.559
<v Speaker 6>What does that mean? You're just wandering around.

1:08:47.439 --> 1:08:50.400
<v Speaker 5>Coursely moving hoping to come across something.

1:08:50.880 --> 1:08:53.599
<v Speaker 6>What I want to know is is is there some

1:08:53.640 --> 1:08:59.800
<v Speaker 6>selection bias for the hunter that would volunteer to do this? Well, yeah, maybe,

1:09:00.360 --> 1:09:01.080
<v Speaker 6>or think about like.

1:09:01.000 --> 1:09:08.520
<v Speaker 5>I better keep moving and realize I'm lazy.

1:09:08.680 --> 1:09:09.920
<v Speaker 2>He's like circles.

1:09:11.400 --> 1:09:14.080
<v Speaker 6>No, the best hunters, you know, are they going to

1:09:14.120 --> 1:09:16.400
<v Speaker 6>put a GPS in their bag.

1:09:17.680 --> 1:09:18.560
<v Speaker 2>Without incentive?

1:09:18.800 --> 1:09:24.080
<v Speaker 3>We all do well phone yeah, like you know, no,

1:09:24.120 --> 1:09:24.759
<v Speaker 3>but yeah.

1:09:26.960 --> 1:09:28.680
<v Speaker 6>Maybe some good hunters would be like, yeah, I'll be

1:09:28.680 --> 1:09:29.360
<v Speaker 6>a part of your study.

1:09:29.439 --> 1:09:32.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm not down on GPS on hunters for starties because,

1:09:32.240 --> 1:09:35.720
<v Speaker 2>like you talk about Mike Chamberlain's work now here, you

1:09:35.840 --> 1:09:40.720
<v Speaker 2>got turkeys with tracking devices, and then you put a

1:09:40.800 --> 1:09:44.200
<v Speaker 2>hunter on the turkey with a tracking device, and in

1:09:44.200 --> 1:09:48.200
<v Speaker 2>some instances you tell the hunter where that bird is,

1:09:49.960 --> 1:09:52.280
<v Speaker 2>so he's like, he's roosted here. I'll give you that.

1:09:53.560 --> 1:09:56.800
<v Speaker 2>And then they watch what happens, and they found birds

1:09:56.800 --> 1:10:01.599
<v Speaker 2>that can't be killed. They just navigated. They found anyone

1:10:01.680 --> 1:10:04.519
<v Speaker 2>wants to hear, Like, go way back to Mike Chamberlain

1:10:04.560 --> 1:10:06.960
<v Speaker 2>being on the podcast. They had a bird that couldn't

1:10:06.960 --> 1:10:11.160
<v Speaker 2>get killed, and eventually a guy killed. It is a

1:10:11.200 --> 1:10:15.519
<v Speaker 2>guy got a fight with his wife and gets all

1:10:15.560 --> 1:10:18.920
<v Speaker 2>pissed off. It drives down to the state game area,

1:10:19.439 --> 1:10:22.479
<v Speaker 2>just drives right past the sign, walks over a little hill,

1:10:22.520 --> 1:10:24.559
<v Speaker 2>sits down and kills the bird that camp be killed.

1:10:24.880 --> 1:10:26.880
<v Speaker 2>And they had been sicken hunters on that bird and

1:10:26.920 --> 1:10:28.000
<v Speaker 2>people couldn't kill that bird.

1:10:28.120 --> 1:10:32.080
<v Speaker 6>Well, hey, that reminds me of Barry Newcomb's hunt the

1:10:32.160 --> 1:10:35.280
<v Speaker 6>other day that he had on public land. He had

1:10:35.320 --> 1:10:39.000
<v Speaker 6>him for four days. Super short story. The morning that

1:10:39.080 --> 1:10:43.360
<v Speaker 6>he killed his gobbler, he had four different guys he could.

1:10:43.520 --> 1:10:46.720
<v Speaker 6>He was sitting across this big, big ravine and he

1:10:46.880 --> 1:10:52.080
<v Speaker 6>saw headlamps coming down to this goblin turkey like before daylight,

1:10:52.720 --> 1:10:55.160
<v Speaker 6>and he and and he heard a guy above him, Allan,

1:10:56.000 --> 1:10:58.599
<v Speaker 6>and he hears this one turkey and all these guys

1:10:58.680 --> 1:11:01.760
<v Speaker 6>hear it, and he knew what that turkey had done

1:11:01.800 --> 1:11:04.519
<v Speaker 6>the day before, and so he took off up the

1:11:04.600 --> 1:11:08.120
<v Speaker 6>mountain and he got pretty lucky. But it was also

1:11:08.240 --> 1:11:11.920
<v Speaker 6>informed luck. Ye, And I mean basically bushwhacked that turkey.

1:11:12.040 --> 1:11:15.240
<v Speaker 2>Sure, yeah, yeah, it wasn't it.

1:11:15.439 --> 1:11:18.120
<v Speaker 6>I mean that turkey heard those box calls going off

1:11:18.120 --> 1:11:20.360
<v Speaker 6>at daylight and was just like out.

1:11:20.200 --> 1:11:23.840
<v Speaker 2>Of here too much. Don't sound right. He's like a

1:11:23.840 --> 1:11:25.160
<v Speaker 2>lot more hens in here than there was.

1:11:25.280 --> 1:11:28.280
<v Speaker 6>Yes, yeah, yeah, and they're carrying headlamps.

1:11:30.160 --> 1:11:36.800
<v Speaker 2>Pat Dirkin just wrote an article, So here's the background

1:11:37.439 --> 1:11:40.719
<v Speaker 2>and the report published April third in the peer reviewed

1:11:40.800 --> 1:11:44.559
<v Speaker 2>journal Frontiers and Conservation Science. Not familiar, you're familiar.

1:11:45.240 --> 1:11:45.960
<v Speaker 5>I've heard of it.

1:11:48.200 --> 1:11:52.200
<v Speaker 2>Research was from Cornell in University of Wisconsin at Madison.

1:11:53.640 --> 1:11:58.599
<v Speaker 2>Came out to say, the states have flubbed deer management.

1:11:58.680 --> 1:12:04.000
<v Speaker 2>States have blown it to me deer. They're managing deer

1:12:04.160 --> 1:12:08.680
<v Speaker 2>for the benefit of too few people. Too may deer

1:12:08.760 --> 1:12:12.479
<v Speaker 2>run around getting too many car crashes. Now we've got

1:12:12.520 --> 1:12:16.800
<v Speaker 2>disease issues. We should bring in the FEDS and hand

1:12:16.840 --> 1:12:19.640
<v Speaker 2>deer management in the United States of America over to

1:12:19.680 --> 1:12:23.680
<v Speaker 2>a federal agency. That's one of those just shot in

1:12:23.720 --> 1:12:29.840
<v Speaker 2>the dark academic papers. That's a news that's like kind

1:12:29.880 --> 1:12:32.479
<v Speaker 2>of be provocative. That's poking the who do you poke?

1:12:32.600 --> 1:12:36.320
<v Speaker 2>Poking the bear bears, not dragons. That's a poking the bear.

1:12:36.520 --> 1:12:40.280
<v Speaker 3>Poking the dragon. That's a good one though, because like

1:12:40.360 --> 1:12:43.360
<v Speaker 3>you know, darn getting well, our buddy Doug Duran would

1:12:43.400 --> 1:12:51.640
<v Speaker 3>be like, you know, his very informed argument, right, is

1:12:51.680 --> 1:12:55.280
<v Speaker 3>like look at the brows, look at the forestry correlation

1:12:55.520 --> 1:13:00.000
<v Speaker 3>to deer populations. It's like these are unhealthy for us,

1:13:00.200 --> 1:13:02.439
<v Speaker 3>caused by unhealthy deer numbers.

1:13:04.000 --> 1:13:05.760
<v Speaker 7>Do you think he would argue on behalf of the

1:13:05.800 --> 1:13:07.280
<v Speaker 7>FEDS managing deer.

1:13:07.360 --> 1:13:08.000
<v Speaker 2>Is that what you're saying.

1:13:08.000 --> 1:13:10.960
<v Speaker 3>I think he would if it. If it's saying it's

1:13:10.960 --> 1:13:13.080
<v Speaker 3>going to be a stronger deer management, it's more of

1:13:13.120 --> 1:13:17.240
<v Speaker 3>a holistic landscape management, then yeah, he would be persuaded

1:13:17.280 --> 1:13:17.719
<v Speaker 3>that way.

1:13:17.920 --> 1:13:21.600
<v Speaker 6>They say that, they that, they say that current management

1:13:21.640 --> 1:13:26.080
<v Speaker 6>agencies have allowed deer impacts to grow into nationwide into

1:13:26.080 --> 1:13:29.160
<v Speaker 6>a nationwide conservation and human health crisis.

1:13:30.400 --> 1:13:32.800
<v Speaker 2>Come on, I mean, I mean a little a little

1:13:32.800 --> 1:13:33.559
<v Speaker 2>bit like come on.

1:13:33.640 --> 1:13:37.479
<v Speaker 5>My knee jerk reaction. I'm I'm typically always in favor

1:13:37.479 --> 1:13:39.880
<v Speaker 5>of consolidating power at a higher level.

1:13:41.439 --> 1:13:53.240
<v Speaker 13>Really, I was trying to I was like, what, sorry, sorry, Arkansas, Yeah,

1:13:53.280 --> 1:13:53.719
<v Speaker 13>my bad.

1:13:54.160 --> 1:13:57.599
<v Speaker 2>Go Yeah.

1:13:57.680 --> 1:13:59.800
<v Speaker 5>I mean I feel like calling I feel like that

1:14:00.160 --> 1:14:03.640
<v Speaker 5>sort of reflexively just goes against everybody's instinct, especially when

1:14:03.640 --> 1:14:06.040
<v Speaker 5>it comes to wildlife management. It's like, we should just

1:14:06.080 --> 1:14:08.200
<v Speaker 5>take this all away from the states in the way

1:14:08.240 --> 1:14:12.960
<v Speaker 5>that things have been going on, and just centralize decision making.

1:14:13.040 --> 1:14:14.680
<v Speaker 2>If I was at the state level on this, I

1:14:14.720 --> 1:14:22.880
<v Speaker 2>would point out I would say that the states, they're there,

1:14:23.000 --> 1:14:26.519
<v Speaker 2>the state, the state's management policies are suffering from social issues,

1:14:27.200 --> 1:14:29.880
<v Speaker 2>meaning they're saying please kill dose kill white tail? Does

1:14:29.920 --> 1:14:33.880
<v Speaker 2>please please please? Reported on it last year the head

1:14:33.880 --> 1:14:36.600
<v Speaker 2>of the Michigan State Agency came out and said, I

1:14:36.640 --> 1:14:38.960
<v Speaker 2>don't know what to do. We can't get people to kill.

1:14:38.960 --> 1:14:47.679
<v Speaker 2>Does right? People aren't killing dose hunters. I would almost

1:14:47.680 --> 1:14:49.840
<v Speaker 2>look at like a wake up call. So unless the

1:14:49.840 --> 1:14:51.639
<v Speaker 2>Feds are gonna come in, and the Feds are gonna

1:14:51.640 --> 1:14:53.240
<v Speaker 2>they're gonna have to do one of two things. The

1:14:53.240 --> 1:14:54.519
<v Speaker 2>Feds are gonna come in, They're gonna.

1:14:54.320 --> 1:14:56.200
<v Speaker 6>Have to make it that people have to kill deer,

1:14:56.600 --> 1:14:59.360
<v Speaker 6>which is gonna go over well, like like you get

1:14:59.360 --> 1:15:00.920
<v Speaker 6>a letter in the man Well, it's like jury dude,

1:15:02.720 --> 1:15:05.120
<v Speaker 6>Like it's like a jury duty summons saying you gotta

1:15:05.160 --> 1:15:08.320
<v Speaker 6>go kill those quota Like what really are they gonna do?

1:15:08.640 --> 1:15:11.800
<v Speaker 6>Or this guy is or these researchers saying we're gonna

1:15:11.840 --> 1:15:13.680
<v Speaker 6>bring in the Feds and we're gonna bring in We're

1:15:13.680 --> 1:15:15.840
<v Speaker 6>gonna you know, remember all the black helicopters when.

1:15:15.720 --> 1:15:17.200
<v Speaker 2>They're gonna pose the New World Order.

1:15:17.439 --> 1:15:21.360
<v Speaker 6>They're gonna get those black helicopters fueled up, and the

1:15:21.400 --> 1:15:23.759
<v Speaker 6>feds are gonna start to deer eradication program.

1:15:23.800 --> 1:15:24.960
<v Speaker 2>Well maybe what are they gonna do.

1:15:25.120 --> 1:15:29.920
<v Speaker 5>Maybe they're gonna bring in drones. Yeah, just drones. I mean,

1:15:30.080 --> 1:15:32.240
<v Speaker 5>I do wonder if the argument is the arguments that

1:15:32.280 --> 1:15:35.360
<v Speaker 5>the federal government wouldn't be as constrained by social.

1:15:36.880 --> 1:15:39.120
<v Speaker 2>The social but they're not constrained. The states are saying,

1:15:39.160 --> 1:15:42.080
<v Speaker 2>please kill those please, what's gonna take? What's gonna take?

1:15:42.280 --> 1:15:43.760
<v Speaker 2>How about we do this? How about we make it

1:15:43.800 --> 1:15:46.120
<v Speaker 2>that you can't kill a book until you to kill those. Well,

1:15:46.240 --> 1:15:49.960
<v Speaker 2>those programs don't work. Yeah, how about we give you

1:15:50.000 --> 1:15:54.040
<v Speaker 2>all the dough tags you want. Tried that? How about

1:15:54.080 --> 1:15:56.160
<v Speaker 2>we let you hunt pretty much seven months out of

1:15:56.160 --> 1:15:59.680
<v Speaker 2>the year. Tried that. How About we make it.

1:15:59.600 --> 1:16:03.360
<v Speaker 6>Where you can and donate even an ungutted dough to

1:16:03.520 --> 1:16:05.720
<v Speaker 6>a food bank and they do all the work for you.

1:16:05.800 --> 1:16:07.400
<v Speaker 6>I mean, I think it's all a lot of it's

1:16:07.439 --> 1:16:10.360
<v Speaker 6>about work. It's like you're out there home and it's like,

1:16:10.439 --> 1:16:11.519
<v Speaker 6>do I want to shoot this dough?

1:16:12.800 --> 1:16:12.960
<v Speaker 2>Time?

1:16:13.000 --> 1:16:17.080
<v Speaker 6>When I shoot this animal? This this starts a pretty

1:16:17.080 --> 1:16:17.919
<v Speaker 6>big process.

1:16:18.040 --> 1:16:20.160
<v Speaker 2>How About we let you use kind of a gun

1:16:20.479 --> 1:16:25.639
<v Speaker 2>during deer archery season. It's like there's nothing. There's nothing

1:16:25.880 --> 1:16:31.960
<v Speaker 2>that they're trying everywhere that has uh that has a

1:16:32.360 --> 1:16:35.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, like an over objective deer herd. They're trying,

1:16:37.040 --> 1:16:39.360
<v Speaker 2>so bringing the feds, but until they're going to bring

1:16:39.360 --> 1:16:41.640
<v Speaker 2>in like a punishment mechanism, Like I don't really know.

1:16:42.439 --> 1:16:43.920
<v Speaker 2>I haven't read the stupid article either.

1:16:44.120 --> 1:16:46.800
<v Speaker 7>I know researchers literally wrote this, but it feels like

1:16:46.800 --> 1:16:51.280
<v Speaker 7>a straw man argument, like there are very very few researchers, biologists,

1:16:51.640 --> 1:16:54.320
<v Speaker 7>federal or state level that would make the same argument.

1:16:54.400 --> 1:16:57.160
<v Speaker 2>It's a bear poke. Yeah, Like it's it's just uh poke.

1:16:57.680 --> 1:16:59.280
<v Speaker 7>There's no folks that agree.

1:17:00.200 --> 1:17:05.160
<v Speaker 3>What would be your letter to the judge be like

1:17:05.280 --> 1:17:09.360
<v Speaker 3>I got to get out of dough duty, you know,

1:17:09.479 --> 1:17:12.600
<v Speaker 3>the boss, or travel a lot for work. I'm not

1:17:12.640 --> 1:17:13.200
<v Speaker 3>going to be there.

1:17:13.240 --> 1:17:15.519
<v Speaker 6>I'd be like, man, hey, I got a huge buck

1:17:15.600 --> 1:17:20.160
<v Speaker 6>on camera. He's coming into the corn like every afternoon.

1:17:20.240 --> 1:17:23.519
<v Speaker 2>I don't get by dose. I really I can't do

1:17:23.600 --> 1:17:23.960
<v Speaker 2>this right.

1:17:26.439 --> 1:17:26.679
<v Speaker 14>Uh.

1:17:27.320 --> 1:17:33.160
<v Speaker 2>Last, what we're gonna get into this is a touchy one.

1:17:34.240 --> 1:17:35.840
<v Speaker 2>B l M is going to deny the permit for

1:17:35.880 --> 1:17:44.240
<v Speaker 2>the Ambler Road project. Yeah, yep, b the bl Bureau

1:17:44.280 --> 1:17:46.160
<v Speaker 2>Land Manager. Well, first off, here's the sorry.

1:17:46.000 --> 1:17:50.400
<v Speaker 3>Not deny, right, they're they're just they're doing a no decision,

1:17:50.680 --> 1:17:52.519
<v Speaker 3>no action, no action.

1:17:52.720 --> 1:17:58.360
<v Speaker 2>Not issue. Yeah, Ambler Road was there's an Ambler mining there.

1:17:58.479 --> 1:18:03.040
<v Speaker 2>There's a what's the word for a whole bunch.

1:18:02.880 --> 1:18:06.520
<v Speaker 3>Just like a pot of gold, Yeah, like untold billions,

1:18:06.520 --> 1:18:11.599
<v Speaker 3>but estimated in the many, many billions of dollars worth

1:18:11.640 --> 1:18:15.040
<v Speaker 3>of wealth in various ores.

1:18:15.640 --> 1:18:19.320
<v Speaker 2>High end minerals, stuff that be used for cell phones,

1:18:19.439 --> 1:18:23.040
<v Speaker 2>stuff to be used gold as in the Ambler Mining district.

1:18:24.520 --> 1:18:27.519
<v Speaker 2>What's preventing extraction of those resources is they would need

1:18:27.560 --> 1:18:32.320
<v Speaker 2>to build a two hundred and fifty mile industrial corridor

1:18:33.640 --> 1:18:37.960
<v Speaker 2>cutting through the southern face of the cutting across the

1:18:37.960 --> 1:18:43.160
<v Speaker 2>southern face of the Brooks Range. It would have what

1:18:43.200 --> 1:18:46.920
<v Speaker 2>would it would cross thousands of streams and rivers in

1:18:47.000 --> 1:18:50.080
<v Speaker 2>an area that right now is an unroaded you know,

1:18:50.160 --> 1:18:53.400
<v Speaker 2>it's it's kind of like the biggest chunk of non

1:18:53.479 --> 1:18:55.439
<v Speaker 2>developed landscape we have on the continent.

1:18:55.840 --> 1:18:59.559
<v Speaker 3>People would use the word pristine, yeah, right, well, like

1:18:59.600 --> 1:19:00.639
<v Speaker 3>it's not developed.

1:19:00.720 --> 1:19:03.600
<v Speaker 2>It would be baseline pristine, right. It would be like

1:19:03.640 --> 1:19:04.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, people love to.

1:19:04.520 --> 1:19:07.360
<v Speaker 3>Argue about pristine versus Daniel Boonez.

1:19:08.080 --> 1:19:11.439
<v Speaker 2>When people love to argue about, you know, definitions of

1:19:11.479 --> 1:19:14.200
<v Speaker 2>wilderness and all that, like, you know, it's a human

1:19:14.280 --> 1:19:17.040
<v Speaker 2>it's a made up concept, and to Native Americans it

1:19:17.080 --> 1:19:21.599
<v Speaker 2>was home and it's not all that aside that would

1:19:21.600 --> 1:19:23.280
<v Speaker 2>be if you're going to fine wilderness, I'd be like, well,

1:19:23.360 --> 1:19:27.240
<v Speaker 2>let's start with that. Okay, two hundred and fifty mile

1:19:27.360 --> 1:19:32.720
<v Speaker 2>corridor that would have been not open for public use.

1:19:33.439 --> 1:19:35.920
<v Speaker 2>That was part of the deal they were brokering. It's like,

1:19:35.960 --> 1:19:38.120
<v Speaker 2>so people like, what about all this penetration of all

1:19:38.160 --> 1:19:40.439
<v Speaker 2>this vehicular traffic, Well, we wouldn't use it for that.

1:19:40.479 --> 1:19:44.320
<v Speaker 2>It will only be used for mining. There's a lot

1:19:44.320 --> 1:19:46.640
<v Speaker 2>of people that wanted it, the political you know, like

1:19:46.680 --> 1:19:49.040
<v Speaker 2>a lot of the political establishment in Alaska wanted it.

1:19:51.120 --> 1:19:53.080
<v Speaker 2>There were Native villages that were in support of it,

1:19:54.120 --> 1:19:58.840
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of people didn't want it. I I

1:19:58.880 --> 1:20:02.160
<v Speaker 2>took like a very he like, my look on it

1:20:02.200 --> 1:20:05.080
<v Speaker 2>is real simple. My look on it was I worry

1:20:05.080 --> 1:20:08.080
<v Speaker 2>more about running out of wilderness than I worry about

1:20:08.160 --> 1:20:10.760
<v Speaker 2>running out of roads, and I didn't want to see

1:20:10.760 --> 1:20:14.000
<v Speaker 2>it happened. And that's how that trivialize the arguments that

1:20:14.040 --> 1:20:16.880
<v Speaker 2>our people have about job creation and economics, and like,

1:20:17.240 --> 1:20:19.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, the national security concerns about where we get

1:20:19.880 --> 1:20:22.040
<v Speaker 2>your minerals from. I look at it like in like

1:20:22.080 --> 1:20:24.160
<v Speaker 2>three hundred years down the road, not even one hundred

1:20:24.200 --> 1:20:26.120
<v Speaker 2>years down the road, whatever it is, I think that

1:20:26.200 --> 1:20:28.760
<v Speaker 2>most people would be glad we didn't do it, just

1:20:28.800 --> 1:20:32.519
<v Speaker 2>like now, it was controversial. It was. It was as

1:20:32.520 --> 1:20:35.759
<v Speaker 2>we talked about, when Theodore Roosevelt made the National Forest System,

1:20:36.960 --> 1:20:39.960
<v Speaker 2>people were pissed. They made legislation to prevent him from

1:20:40.040 --> 1:20:42.439
<v Speaker 2>keep doing it. Now we're like, thank god he did that.

1:20:43.400 --> 1:20:47.320
<v Speaker 2>Let's carve him in a big mountain next to George Washington.

1:20:48.280 --> 1:20:51.639
<v Speaker 2>You know, sure, glad he thought to do that. Let's

1:20:51.680 --> 1:20:54.600
<v Speaker 2>call you know, a bunch of conservation groups Theodore Roosevelt

1:20:54.600 --> 1:20:58.720
<v Speaker 2>this and that. Uh, no one is gonna I don't

1:20:58.720 --> 1:21:00.760
<v Speaker 2>think anyone down the road would have been glad we've

1:21:00.760 --> 1:21:05.519
<v Speaker 2>done that. They were gonna put a big mine, they

1:21:05.560 --> 1:21:09.160
<v Speaker 2>were gonna put a big dam in Livingstone at a time,

1:21:10.320 --> 1:21:14.599
<v Speaker 2>in flood that valley. Do you think anyone right now

1:21:14.720 --> 1:21:17.480
<v Speaker 2>as pissed as they were when they couldn't do it,

1:21:17.520 --> 1:21:19.680
<v Speaker 2>is anyone right now saying God, I really wish we'd

1:21:19.720 --> 1:21:20.880
<v Speaker 2>damned that whole damn thing up.

1:21:21.040 --> 1:21:24.439
<v Speaker 5>The jet ski industry, the jets industry, the jes ski.

1:21:24.400 --> 1:21:29.000
<v Speaker 2>Industry is bummed. There's just certain conservation moves that later

1:21:29.520 --> 1:21:31.200
<v Speaker 2>people will look and be like, wow, glad we didn't

1:21:31.200 --> 1:21:31.479
<v Speaker 2>do that.

1:21:31.800 --> 1:21:34.040
<v Speaker 5>I mean, it's the same thing, not the same thing,

1:21:34.080 --> 1:21:36.559
<v Speaker 5>but it's it parallels in some way as the conversation

1:21:36.600 --> 1:21:39.839
<v Speaker 5>we had about technology, where it's like your frame of reference.

1:21:40.720 --> 1:21:44.559
<v Speaker 5>If something happens fifty years ago, you're like, man, obviously

1:21:44.640 --> 1:21:47.680
<v Speaker 5>they made the right cross, they made the right call then,

1:21:47.880 --> 1:21:52.040
<v Speaker 5>and now there's a similar question. And it's not all

1:21:52.080 --> 1:21:55.840
<v Speaker 5>the same. But in hindsight, some of these things look

1:21:55.920 --> 1:21:59.000
<v Speaker 5>like common sense, but in the moment they're highly controversial.

1:21:59.200 --> 1:22:03.000
<v Speaker 2>Yep. And I could see like who know, Like geopolitically,

1:22:04.439 --> 1:22:10.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, who knows? Who knows in the future what

1:22:10.240 --> 1:22:12.479
<v Speaker 2>situation the nation might be in. And there could be

1:22:12.479 --> 1:22:15.400
<v Speaker 2>a situation in the future where the nation's in a

1:22:15.479 --> 1:22:18.160
<v Speaker 2>situation where we revisit it and we're like, no, for

1:22:18.240 --> 1:22:22.000
<v Speaker 2>real now, Like in terms of like real right now

1:22:22.240 --> 1:22:25.320
<v Speaker 2>here and now national security issues, we have a serious problem.

1:22:25.360 --> 1:22:27.760
<v Speaker 2>I think it's gonna be different conversation. Well, but the

1:22:27.800 --> 1:22:28.799
<v Speaker 2>shit ain't going anywhere.

1:22:28.880 --> 1:22:31.800
<v Speaker 6>That goes back to the idea that that wilderness is

1:22:32.200 --> 1:22:36.240
<v Speaker 6>a luxury of the culture that has has a lot

1:22:36.280 --> 1:22:38.400
<v Speaker 6>of strength and monetary value. There's a lot of in

1:22:38.439 --> 1:22:41.639
<v Speaker 6>the wilderness argument about you know, part of the reason

1:22:41.720 --> 1:22:45.000
<v Speaker 6>we've been able to preserve so much wilderness is because

1:22:45.080 --> 1:22:48.320
<v Speaker 6>we didn't have to exploit every square inch of ground.

1:22:48.680 --> 1:22:48.840
<v Speaker 2>You know.

1:22:48.840 --> 1:22:51.639
<v Speaker 6>There's some great quotes from some guys you know about like, yeah,

1:22:51.920 --> 1:22:54.559
<v Speaker 6>we're a great nation because we didn't have to take

1:22:54.600 --> 1:22:58.479
<v Speaker 6>every last stick of lumber and every last mineral out

1:22:58.479 --> 1:22:58.960
<v Speaker 6>of the ground.

1:22:59.479 --> 1:22:59.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:22:59.680 --> 1:23:01.519
<v Speaker 6>There, it could be different. I mean if we were

1:23:02.040 --> 1:23:06.479
<v Speaker 6>the if the if the socioeconomic things flipped one hundred

1:23:06.560 --> 1:23:09.040
<v Speaker 6>years from now, seventy five years from now, fifteen years

1:23:09.080 --> 1:23:11.040
<v Speaker 6>from now, it's like.

1:23:10.720 --> 1:23:15.040
<v Speaker 2>We're in some like prolonged global war or some prolonged

1:23:15.040 --> 1:23:17.479
<v Speaker 2>global standoff. We might look and be like, you know what,

1:23:18.800 --> 1:23:21.479
<v Speaker 2>maybe the maybe we should drill the NPR, maybe we

1:23:21.520 --> 1:23:24.160
<v Speaker 2>should mine the Ambler Mining District, Maybe we need to

1:23:24.200 --> 1:23:24.880
<v Speaker 2>move into the.

1:23:27.400 --> 1:23:27.800
<v Speaker 11>And war.

1:23:28.479 --> 1:23:31.839
<v Speaker 2>But like right now, look at I don't.

1:23:33.960 --> 1:23:38.840
<v Speaker 3>In times they're great. In times of great conflict and necessity,

1:23:39.439 --> 1:23:43.160
<v Speaker 3>Congress can make a decision, right like we have that

1:23:43.240 --> 1:23:46.200
<v Speaker 3>in our history. That's an established ability that we have,

1:23:46.560 --> 1:23:51.680
<v Speaker 3>right Like Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor. Yep, we made a

1:23:51.720 --> 1:23:54.160
<v Speaker 3>decision as a nation real fast.

1:23:54.240 --> 1:23:57.800
<v Speaker 2>No one could buy silk anymore. All the silk goes

1:23:57.840 --> 1:23:58.520
<v Speaker 2>to parachutes.

1:23:58.840 --> 1:23:59.040
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:23:59.120 --> 1:24:00.679
<v Speaker 2>Now, if you've done that before or the war, people

1:24:00.760 --> 1:24:05.800
<v Speaker 2>been like what or like there's food like whatever, like

1:24:05.840 --> 1:24:09.439
<v Speaker 2>in extraordinary circumstances. So I don't really buy the I

1:24:09.479 --> 1:24:11.920
<v Speaker 2>don't like, I don't buy that argument right off the

1:24:11.960 --> 1:24:14.760
<v Speaker 2>bat because I think that the whole conversation would change

1:24:14.760 --> 1:24:17.360
<v Speaker 2>in a crisis. It's not a crisis right now. Yeah,

1:24:17.400 --> 1:24:19.799
<v Speaker 2>we can, we can still afford to have wild places.

1:24:20.000 --> 1:24:23.080
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, how much would you care about this topic if

1:24:23.120 --> 1:24:25.040
<v Speaker 7>it was like in Canada or Russia?

1:24:26.040 --> 1:24:29.479
<v Speaker 2>Very little? Well, it'd be less because I'd feel like

1:24:29.560 --> 1:24:35.040
<v Speaker 2>it was I would care, but it.

1:24:37.200 --> 1:24:38.679
<v Speaker 3>But it's a little bit not your business.

1:24:38.760 --> 1:24:40.360
<v Speaker 2>It would be not even not my business. I wouldn't

1:24:40.360 --> 1:24:43.000
<v Speaker 2>have like a I wouldn't feel that I had a

1:24:43.080 --> 1:24:44.800
<v Speaker 2>voice that need to be heard. But when it comes

1:24:44.800 --> 1:24:49.479
<v Speaker 2>to federal lands, it's it's as a United States citizen,

1:24:49.560 --> 1:24:53.080
<v Speaker 2>you have a vested interest, so a dog, you have

1:24:53.160 --> 1:24:56.800
<v Speaker 2>a right to speak about it. I mean do I

1:24:56.840 --> 1:25:00.560
<v Speaker 2>am I bummed that the Amazon has disappear at the

1:25:00.680 --> 1:25:02.519
<v Speaker 2>rate that it is. Of course, do I feel like

1:25:02.560 --> 1:25:05.720
<v Speaker 2>I have a move to make not as readily as

1:25:05.760 --> 1:25:10.120
<v Speaker 2>I have a move to make there. Yeah, I'm like

1:25:10.160 --> 1:25:12.800
<v Speaker 2>a I don't know, I'm like an environmental nationalist.

1:25:13.200 --> 1:25:16.000
<v Speaker 3>Right, tell people not to buy Argentine beef by made

1:25:16.000 --> 1:25:20.200
<v Speaker 3>in America beef, and you can help the Amazon that's about.

1:25:20.040 --> 1:25:24.120
<v Speaker 5>And help the American rancher that's right, win win, yep.

1:25:25.600 --> 1:25:28.799
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, I mean it is like, I love Canada,

1:25:28.920 --> 1:25:34.640
<v Speaker 3>love my time spent there. They have some amazing wildlife

1:25:35.160 --> 1:25:38.920
<v Speaker 3>opportunities and programs, and I would be able to speak

1:25:38.960 --> 1:25:41.720
<v Speaker 3>on the fact that, like, boy, I hope they don't

1:25:41.760 --> 1:25:48.920
<v Speaker 3>mess this up just just because of whatever policy, But

1:25:48.960 --> 1:25:51.240
<v Speaker 3>then I would only be able to fall back on

1:25:51.280 --> 1:25:54.280
<v Speaker 3>the fact like I don't know the whole picture because

1:25:54.320 --> 1:25:58.439
<v Speaker 3>I'm not as invested, but doesn't seem like a good idea.

1:25:58.640 --> 1:26:02.400
<v Speaker 3>Whereas with this particular thing, I'm like, oh my god,

1:26:02.479 --> 1:26:08.760
<v Speaker 3>migratory birds, fish, it's a porkypine, porcupine, caribou herd.

1:26:08.840 --> 1:26:12.960
<v Speaker 6>Right on the other Yeah, no, it's western, it's central

1:26:13.040 --> 1:26:13.559
<v Speaker 6>or western.

1:26:15.880 --> 1:26:18.439
<v Speaker 3>But you know, like we know these Caribou herds are

1:26:18.439 --> 1:26:19.960
<v Speaker 3>in decline. We know that they.

1:26:19.760 --> 1:26:21.200
<v Speaker 2>Add porcupine to the east.

1:26:21.560 --> 1:26:26.200
<v Speaker 3>Do not deal with change well, like to the point

1:26:26.240 --> 1:26:29.360
<v Speaker 3>where it's such a hard concept for people to grasp

1:26:29.479 --> 1:26:31.600
<v Speaker 3>when you talk about it, like, well, what do you

1:26:31.760 --> 1:26:35.519
<v Speaker 3>mean they just can't walk over a road? I'm like,

1:26:35.560 --> 1:26:41.000
<v Speaker 3>well they can, but to them, like you know, it's

1:26:41.080 --> 1:26:44.400
<v Speaker 3>like it's a bizarre concept. But yeah, I think like

1:26:44.600 --> 1:26:46.680
<v Speaker 3>we're all very much in a position to weigh in

1:26:46.720 --> 1:26:49.479
<v Speaker 3>and should weigh in on these things if they're important

1:26:49.520 --> 1:26:49.800
<v Speaker 3>to us.

1:26:51.040 --> 1:26:55.400
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you, Seth Canton's real happy right now. All right,

1:26:55.439 --> 1:26:58.479
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna wrap up. Thanks y'all.

1:26:58.760 --> 1:27:02.599
<v Speaker 6>Hey, Steve, I've got one thing. I'm gonna go back

1:27:02.640 --> 1:27:05.800
<v Speaker 6>to the beginning. May seem a little out of place.

1:27:06.640 --> 1:27:09.480
<v Speaker 6>I think you need to talk about your old girlfriends.

1:27:09.800 --> 1:27:15.920
<v Speaker 6>Less I didn't say, what are you talking about?

1:27:16.240 --> 1:27:16.280
<v Speaker 7>You?

1:27:18.439 --> 1:27:20.000
<v Speaker 3>You're gonna hate the next podcast.

1:27:22.280 --> 1:27:25.960
<v Speaker 6>The first you're opening line on this podcast, you were

1:27:25.960 --> 1:27:29.240
<v Speaker 6>talking about some old girlfriend you had, And I'm just saying,

1:27:29.280 --> 1:27:34.360
<v Speaker 6>I think you need to dial a quarter century ago.

1:27:34.520 --> 1:27:38.000
<v Speaker 6>I think you need to before. I think you need

1:27:38.000 --> 1:27:40.840
<v Speaker 6>to let the past die. We all think it, we

1:27:40.960 --> 1:27:43.720
<v Speaker 6>all know it. We love you. You need to You need

1:27:43.720 --> 1:27:49.120
<v Speaker 6>to do all that back a quarter century ago, long

1:27:49.200 --> 1:27:53.439
<v Speaker 6>before I knew my wife the one to hear about this.

1:27:53.479 --> 1:28:03.200
<v Speaker 2>Though she's grown up, she's not, She's a woman. Let's

1:28:03.240 --> 1:28:04.200
<v Speaker 2>let's ask her together.

1:28:04.920 --> 1:28:09.120
<v Speaker 7>Okay, I think i'd like you to talk about him more. Yeah,

1:28:09.160 --> 1:28:11.600
<v Speaker 7>I have to, like, I'd like to further the conversation

1:28:11.680 --> 1:28:12.639
<v Speaker 7>around and I don't.

1:28:14.000 --> 1:28:14.920
<v Speaker 2>I think i'd like more.

1:28:15.000 --> 1:28:15.960
<v Speaker 6>Do you guys agree?

1:28:16.000 --> 1:28:16.160
<v Speaker 10>Though?

1:28:16.960 --> 1:28:19.880
<v Speaker 6>Come on, col I disagree?

1:28:21.360 --> 1:28:24.559
<v Speaker 2>Is that me and my wife that like we're comfortable

1:28:24.560 --> 1:28:27.360
<v Speaker 2>with the fact that we were alive a long time

1:28:27.600 --> 1:28:28.599
<v Speaker 2>before we met each other.

1:28:29.360 --> 1:28:31.599
<v Speaker 7>Okay, can I ask you an ex girlfriend questions?

1:28:34.840 --> 1:28:38.760
<v Speaker 2>Like what you do? He just did the barber.

1:28:41.280 --> 1:28:45.080
<v Speaker 7>You once talked about how somehow we were talking about

1:28:45.120 --> 1:28:48.880
<v Speaker 7>corn smut on trivia. Well, let me tell the story,

1:28:48.920 --> 1:28:51.559
<v Speaker 7>and you know you're okay? An ex girlfriend you.

1:28:51.520 --> 1:28:53.559
<v Speaker 3>Said's got to turn their dose.

1:28:53.640 --> 1:28:57.640
<v Speaker 2>I have a lot of tech problems. It's like, I

1:28:57.680 --> 1:29:01.919
<v Speaker 2>can't begin to tell you.

1:28:58.600 --> 1:29:04.479
<v Speaker 7>That an ex girlfriend once threw your keys into a cornfield. Yes,

1:29:04.760 --> 1:29:07.719
<v Speaker 7>and what was the argument? That's what that's the detail.

1:29:07.760 --> 1:29:09.200
<v Speaker 7>I was really I've been hung up on that for

1:29:09.240 --> 1:29:09.719
<v Speaker 7>a year.

1:29:10.120 --> 1:29:12.679
<v Speaker 2>I have no recollection, but it was on Katie Road,

1:29:14.960 --> 1:29:19.000
<v Speaker 2>not far down from Ronnie Bab's house. Uh, and just

1:29:19.040 --> 1:29:23.040
<v Speaker 2>took my car never found him. This is evil and

1:29:23.320 --> 1:29:25.400
<v Speaker 2>bombed him out into a corn field. That's a good

1:29:25.439 --> 1:29:30.040
<v Speaker 2>trip to walk to walk a few miles. Did like

1:29:30.080 --> 1:29:30.759
<v Speaker 2>did you become?

1:29:31.120 --> 1:29:32.719
<v Speaker 7>Was she an ex girlfriend at that moment?

1:29:33.200 --> 1:29:35.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't even remember, dude, I don't know. It was

1:29:35.400 --> 1:29:37.840
<v Speaker 2>like something just got mad about something. I was like,

1:29:37.880 --> 1:29:39.439
<v Speaker 2>I don't think she really thought of how hard it

1:29:39.520 --> 1:29:44.360
<v Speaker 2>be to find him out there a standing cornfield.

1:29:43.800 --> 1:29:49.320
<v Speaker 7>And walked you walked upon some corns.

1:29:48.360 --> 1:29:51.200
<v Speaker 3>And I don't take it can be confused with like

1:29:51.400 --> 1:29:56.519
<v Speaker 3>wistfully looking back on a time spent in another relationship.

1:29:56.120 --> 1:29:58.519
<v Speaker 2>Clay, I'll tell you I've taken it makes sense every

1:29:58.520 --> 1:30:00.559
<v Speaker 2>time I give my wife a tour where I grew

1:30:00.640 --> 1:30:04.439
<v Speaker 2>up and she's sick. She's like, how could someone as

1:30:04.479 --> 1:30:07.200
<v Speaker 2>old as you be so surprised that things have changed

1:30:07.240 --> 1:30:12.559
<v Speaker 2>since you were a little kid. Usually this is part

1:30:12.600 --> 1:30:23.559
<v Speaker 2>of my tour tour. I'm like, somewhere out there, seventy chevy, I'll.

1:30:23.439 --> 1:30:25.080
<v Speaker 6>Be having a conversation with her about it.

1:30:25.280 --> 1:30:27.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay with this, all right? Thanks so.

1:30:45.680 --> 1:30:45.760
<v Speaker 10>Yo.

1:30:49.760 --> 1:30:51.519
<v Speaker 8>I'm a backwoods game for real.

1:30:51.600 --> 1:30:51.800
<v Speaker 2>Job.

1:30:52.160 --> 1:30:55.360
<v Speaker 15>He stay sharp because I know murderers looking behind them.

1:30:55.479 --> 1:30:57.559
<v Speaker 8>Tray bus and caps and me both booths.

1:30:57.560 --> 1:31:00.599
<v Speaker 15>Couldn't get a barn with my pears like a gold

1:31:00.680 --> 1:31:05.080
<v Speaker 15>chant steffany cots like there's cocaine, got a sexy ass

1:31:05.120 --> 1:31:09.000
<v Speaker 15>water on my neck, got six inchers and don't disrespect.

1:31:09.080 --> 1:31:12.599
<v Speaker 16>Ain't high in my bost all night spitting that hands,

1:31:12.840 --> 1:31:15.240
<v Speaker 16>getting in fights camp when we went to white.

1:31:15.040 --> 1:31:16.639
<v Speaker 8>Cast calls real brun.

1:31:16.720 --> 1:31:23.320
<v Speaker 16>It's like truck and needs It's like base balls, Scot.

1:31:47.360 --> 1:31:50.559
<v Speaker 16>I'm a bus tom, badass, certified, moss back Bluna, tic

1:31:50.680 --> 1:31:53.320
<v Speaker 16>long beard, thunder chicken, himmer head king because I got

1:31:53.320 --> 1:31:56.640
<v Speaker 16>a white crown watching homies getting murdered dead on the

1:31:56.640 --> 1:31:58.800
<v Speaker 16>ground at scared of a now more crow.

1:31:59.400 --> 1:32:02.920
<v Speaker 8>Go wait, I'm gonna shock bumble bro walk into the party.

1:32:03.000 --> 1:32:06.160
<v Speaker 8>Four strut from my studs, still the brood knocking in

1:32:06.160 --> 1:32:06.519
<v Speaker 8>the club.

1:32:06.640 --> 1:32:09.040
<v Speaker 15>Dot Beef with the homie name Jake for shore so

1:32:09.160 --> 1:32:10.160
<v Speaker 15>as Jenny took her home.

1:32:10.479 --> 1:32:12.960
<v Speaker 8>Then I made a purr, don't talk for read, you

1:32:13.160 --> 1:32:15.519
<v Speaker 8>care for me? Came a wearing airshres. I makes you

1:32:15.560 --> 1:32:16.360
<v Speaker 8>see go damage you.

1:32:19.760 --> 1:32:24.680
<v Speaker 11>Ll forss.

1:32:38.400 --> 1:32:42.439
<v Speaker 8>Go shout out to my marry up with the four lawsuits, shoo.

1:32:43.360 --> 1:32:49.160
<v Speaker 14>My rods down in a boom, A fiolas over in

1:32:49.240 --> 1:32:55.920
<v Speaker 14>my head, Boom to my eastern and then long boom

1:32:56.920 --> 1:32:58.879
<v Speaker 14>course three o' runner, the light.

1:33:00.240 --> 1:33:04.000
<v Speaker 16>Stop and I stopped in the border hobies the also

1:33:04.160 --> 1:33:07.120
<v Speaker 16>ladies boom along as job.

1:33:08.080 --> 1:33:12.960
<v Speaker 8>You want your job to stop stop by amut