1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,080 Speaker 1: Coming up on you need therapy. 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 2: So I almost think that practicing that vulnerability of addressing, hey, 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 2: I messed up. You know, you might not have seen 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 2: me as someone who can mess up, but I am 5 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 2: and I did. 6 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 3: So can we. 7 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 2: Talk about that here and know that just because it 8 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 2: was unpleasant doesn't necessarily mean it's bad, or the relationship 9 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: has to end or the relationship has changed for the worse. 10 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 2: Because even in my experience, I've noticed that if we 11 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 2: can make it through those areas of discomfort and talk 12 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 2: about it, then we can talk about other things. We 13 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 2: don't have to sweep things under the rug. 14 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: I started to realize that not being an expert isn't 15 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: a liability, it's a real gift. If we don't know 16 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: something about ourselves at this point in our life, it's 17 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: probably because it's uncomfortable to know. If you can die 18 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: before you die, then you can really live. There's a 19 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: wisdom at death's door. 20 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 3: I thought I was insane, Yeah, and I didn't know 21 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 3: what to do because there was no internet, no man. 22 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: I'm like, I feel like everything is hard. Hey, y'all, 23 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: my name is Kat. I'm a human first and a 24 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 1: licensed therapist second. And right now I'm inviting you into 25 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: conversations that I hope encourage you to become more curious 26 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: and less judgmental about yourself, others, and the world around you. 27 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to You Need Therapy. Hi guys, and welcome back 28 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: to a new episode of You Need Therapy podcast. My 29 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: name is Kat. I am the host. And before we 30 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: get into anything, this is your quick reminder that although 31 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: it's called You Need Therapy, I am a therapist. This 32 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: podcast does not serve as a replacement or a substitute 33 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:47,919 Speaker 1: for any actual mental health services. And you have again, 34 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: this is becoming quite a theme here more than one therapist, 35 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: because I have Bridget Back, who came on about a 36 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: month ago. 37 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so about a month ago. 38 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: Bridget is a therapist. She's new to three quarts therapy, 39 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: which is the therapy practice I have in Nashville, and 40 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: she talked about a month ago on maternal mental health. 41 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: And people loved that episode. 42 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 3: Oh well, thank you for having me. I loved being 43 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 3: on it. 44 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,119 Speaker 1: And I'm sure we will do a lot of spin 45 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: offs from that because there are so many things we 46 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: could have talked so. 47 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 3: Much, I know we didn't even cover everything. And I've 48 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 3: take an hour. 49 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: We could have just done like a whole series and that. 50 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: But I've been talking to you guys about this new 51 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: series I wanted to bring on called This Is for 52 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: the Therapist, and quick reminder about that it's not going 53 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: to be like ten episodes in a row. It's just 54 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: another series that's going to pop up whenever I get 55 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: a burst of energy around something, and it's going to 56 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: be ongoing, like the one that I do with Tara Booker. 57 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 1: The difference between when we talk about things that are 58 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: originally from mental health spaces and have been then taken 59 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: over in the pop culture realm. We talk about that 60 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: this is one of those things where will randomly pop up. 61 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: You might see a couple of backpack episodes now because 62 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,519 Speaker 1: I have this jolt of energy around this idea. So 63 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: what we're doing is we're talking about things that have 64 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: to do more with the idea of being a therapist, 65 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: so they can apply to anybody and you'll see that 66 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 1: very quickly. But I wanted to talk specifically to the 67 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: experience of being a therapist because I am one, and 68 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: I let's talk about this, and what we're going to 69 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: start with today is rupture and repairs as a therapist, 70 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: specifically in the therapeutic room, but we're going to take 71 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: that outside of the therapy room too, Because I was 72 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: talking to Bridget right before we started. I have noticed 73 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: that I feel there is a difference in myself and 74 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: I can only compare to myself, but there's a difference 75 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: in myself around doing a repair in my real life 76 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: and doing a repair as a therapist. It's different. But 77 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: I also think the experience of pairing something in my 78 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: real life feels a little bit different than if I 79 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: wasn't a therapist. 80 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 2: Oh, definitely, there's way more pressure. Yes, it's interesting because 81 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 2: there's similarities, but they do feel very different because one 82 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: is you're risking your social connections and one is you're 83 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 2: risking your professional But at the same time, like where 84 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: human and connection is connection, But it does. 85 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 3: Feel very different. But there's a lot of pressure as well. 86 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I will add on too that that in 87 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: the therapy room, as the therapist making the repair, it's like, oh, 88 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be therapist. I'm supposed to be the 89 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: one that does me correctly. And then also as a 90 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: therapist in my real life, I have this like, oh, 91 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: I'm a therapist I'm supposed to like not have to 92 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 1: do this, And I imagine that I wouldn't have that 93 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: thought if I wasn't a therapist, so right, right, Like. 94 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 2: I wouldn't be like, contractors are never supposed to mess 95 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 2: up in relationships? 96 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: What am I doing exactly? Yeah? Did I go into 97 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 1: the wrong profession? So to get started, you were a therapist, 98 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 1: you probably know what this means. But if you're not, 99 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: you might be like, Oh, what are those words? They 100 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 1: rupture and prepare? That sounds nice? What is that? And 101 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about what that is first before 102 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: we go into the experience of doing that as a therapist. 103 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: So a rupture is just kind of, in the simplest terms, 104 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: a form of conflict. So it would be a break 105 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: in any kind of connection between two people. It could 106 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 1: be I mean between more than two people, but there 107 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: needs to be two people. And it's caused by so 108 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 1: many things. It would be caused by emotion, It can 109 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: be caused by a comment, something you said, something you 110 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: didn't say. A rupture can be big. It can be 111 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: something that you did that was huge, like you blew 112 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: somebody off when you were supposed to show it to 113 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: an event or you called them a name when you 114 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: were feeling some feelings. Or it can be small like 115 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:57,799 Speaker 1: you didn't validate somebody when they really were like turning 116 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: towards you and looking for something, or you forgot to 117 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: put the dishes away when you told somebody you were 118 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: going to put the dishes away. There's a range the 119 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 1: word rupture. I think I get this like, whoa, that 120 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: sounds like a big thing. Yeah, it says break in conflict, 121 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: I would say, like it could be a crack. 122 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 123 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 2: And I think even just a more general way to 124 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 2: put it is anything that leads to disconnection and whether 125 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 2: it's really disconnected or you know, we just weren't really 126 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 2: clicking in therapy today, things like that, I think that 127 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 2: counts as a rupture. And then anything that brings us 128 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 2: closer to connection I would count as in the repair. 129 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: Conrepair, which I'm so glad you said that because the 130 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: word it could lead to disconnection I think is important 131 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: because oftentimes the repairs as therapists, this is for me 132 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: that I have to make are things that I could 133 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 1: get by with not acknowledging, definitely, but the client's going 134 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: to clock that. And so there is this almost game 135 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: that they're playing where they have to guard what they 136 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:11,559 Speaker 1: say or not share certain things, or it just puts 137 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: more work on the client to do, which leads to 138 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: the disconnection. 139 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that also speaks to the way 140 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 2: that rupture and repair is different in the therapy room, 141 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 2: because when we are with a client, there is a 142 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 2: power imbalance, and if we choose to not say something, 143 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: because in action is a choice just as much as 144 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 2: action is, if we choose to not say something, that 145 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 2: might put the client in an awkward position because maybe 146 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 2: they haven't been in a situation where they are in 147 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 2: a position of disempowerment where they've said something versus you know, 148 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 2: if let's say something happens with a partner or a friend, 149 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 2: that's more of an equal playing ground, and you know, 150 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 2: really either of us could say something. So I think 151 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 2: that's another reason that it feels so different in the 152 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: therapy room. 153 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: And if you are managing as the client, if you're 154 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: trying to get your therapist to like you, it's like, 155 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to cause the conflict, and it's like 156 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: you weren't causing the complict right, right, And so there's 157 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: a pressure that they put on themselves and I think 158 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: as therapists, it's our job to manage that as best 159 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: we can. Is we are supposed to be creating a 160 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: safe space in a space that models healthy relationship. So 161 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: you already kind of touched on what a repair is, 162 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: but it's basically what you said, like any statement or 163 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: an action or something that tries to bring us closer 164 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: together and kind of almost breaks that tension that we 165 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 1: might be holding. It's anything that tries to bring the 166 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: disconnection back into connection, similar to an amends or what 167 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 1: some people might be more familiar with a form of 168 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: an apology. 169 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think a big part of that is 170 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 2: recognizing what was my part in it, Because you know, 171 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 2: something like sorry you felt that way, sorry you took 172 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 2: it so personally, that's probably not going to lead to 173 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 2: more connection. That'll probably lead to definitely you did this right. 174 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 2: It's like, I'm not really a part of this. I 175 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 2: just happened to be here when things went wrong, but 176 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 2: it wasn't my fault. So I think that part of repair, 177 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 2: amend's apology, whatever you want to call it, is recognizing 178 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: what was my part in it, recognizing my actions, what 179 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 2: the effect was on you, and finding a way of 180 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 2: how can I make this better? You know going forward? 181 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 2: Is there something you wish I did? Is there something 182 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 2: you wish I didn't do? Here's my thoughts. I'm thinking 183 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: I should have done it this way. What do you 184 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 2: think about that, because that's going to really foster more 185 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 2: opportunity for connection versus if I had nothing to do 186 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 2: with it. How am I gonna mend the situation? 187 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: You deal with that over there? Yes, it's like an 188 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: othering thing. As you were saying that, I was thinking, 189 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: what as a therapist comes up when I do something 190 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: that creates a rupture in the relationship with my client. 191 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: So when I notice myself whether it's I forgot something, 192 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: and I will be the first to say. If you're 193 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 1: listening to this and you're my client, you might be like, yeah, 194 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: I was waiting for you to get that. I have 195 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: messed up a lot of scheduling things. I have accidentally 196 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: charged people the wrong amount. I have walked into my 197 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 1: waiting room and there's three of my clients waiting and 198 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: I'm like, you guys are all here for me? Or 199 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: one of are you? Just hang yeah. So I have 200 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: had my share of those kinds of ruptures that I 201 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: do think matter a lot. Yeah, and then I have 202 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: my share of I like forgot a detail of a story, 203 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: which I can say a lot on whether that's a 204 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: rupture or not. Or I said I was going to 205 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: follow up about something I didn't, or I said I 206 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: was going to send them something and I didn't. So 207 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,959 Speaker 1: those kind of all go into the same category. Then 208 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,599 Speaker 1: there are the things where like I say something that 209 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: might have been hurtful, or I totally steamrolled the session 210 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: and was too hyper focused on something that wasn't even 211 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: what I should have focused on. Sometimes I noticed that 212 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: stuff in the moment. Sometimes after the session, I'm like, 213 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: where was my head? Yeah, I could give so many examples, 214 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: But going back to my original thought of what comes 215 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: up in me when I think about the first group, 216 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: I don't have as much resistance making a repair right 217 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: one because it's like, yeah, what are you going to 218 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: act like you didn't do it right? 219 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 3: It's pretty cut and dry, like there's three of us. 220 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: The other part, there's a part of my personality and 221 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 1: that people just know about, Like I can be forgetful 222 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 1: and it's not an excuse. I'm working on it. I 223 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: can be unorganized, and sometimes that stuff just happens, I 224 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: still can take responsibility for it, but it does I 225 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: think hit on anything that I think has to do 226 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: with me being good at my job. That's my own 227 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 1: personal feelings. Somebody else might be like, well you should 228 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: because that is part of your job. But for me personally, 229 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: those kind of feelings don't come up because I can 230 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: separate those. 231 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't hit the ego as much. No, it's 232 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 2: much more surface level things like that. 233 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: Yes, where some other people might be like, if they 234 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: are more perfectionistic, that might be more of a yeah, 235 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: But for me, I'm like, oh, I don't really hold 236 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: that stuffs to high a standard. But the stuff where 237 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: I'm like, shoot, I was stuck in my own stuff 238 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: and totally misjudged what was going on and didn't offer 239 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: them the right kind of space, or I wasn't curious. 240 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: I kind of became more preachery, right, or I think 241 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: I self disclosed too much, and yeah, oh man, they 242 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: didn't not even that, like they don't need to hear that. 243 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 1: It's like I wasted their time, right, it wasn't helpful, right, 244 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: I was like, I think I was saying that for 245 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: myself exactly exactly those things are harder for me, and 246 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of what the actual feeling is, 247 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: but it's shame. I think I feel out of shame 248 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: because like I should know better, I should do better. 249 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 1: I do hold myself to that standard, and this says 250 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: something about me fully as a therapist versus a thing 251 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: I did. And I think there's also some fear there 252 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: that if I bring it into the room, they won't 253 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: trust me right, or maybe they didn't notice that I 254 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 1: was in my head, and if so, if I acknowledge that, 255 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: then they're going to think that maybe I'm not very 256 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: good at my job. Maybe they didn't notice that I 257 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: was in my head, and if so, if I acknowledge that, 258 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 1: then they're going to think that maybe I'm not very 259 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: good at my job. 260 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely for me, I would say the number one 261 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 2: thing that I experience is fear. And I think I 262 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 2: have a lot of fear of like I don't want 263 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 2: to cause harm because in grad school they to us 264 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 2: about causing harm, so in my mind, I was like, 265 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 2: any moment you make the wrong move and someone's ruined 266 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 2: for life. So I know that comes up a lot, 267 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 2: but also the fear of just hurting someone's feelings, or 268 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 2: someone coming to you and entrusting you with that honor 269 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 2: of being a person they come to during a hard 270 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 2: time and falling flat and just not being what they 271 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 2: needed in the moment. So I have a lot of 272 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 2: fear of have I irrevocably damaged to this relationship? Have 273 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 2: I really altered our trust? Are they gonna think, Wow, 274 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 2: this person is bad at her job, Maybe I shouldn't 275 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 2: even see her. So that's a lot of the fear, 276 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 2: and making repairs with clients can be really, really scary, 277 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 2: but I have had such positive experiences with it because 278 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 2: literally never have my. 279 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 3: Biggest fears been confirmed. 280 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 2: So I remember one repair I did with a client 281 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 2: that it was like, you know, whatever night of the 282 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 2: week I had this client, I thought about it for 283 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 2: the next seven days and like start the session, I'm like, hey, 284 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 2: just wanted to address what kurd last week, and you know, 285 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 2: I like apologize, I say my part, and she was like, oh, 286 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 2: you're so sweet. 287 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 3: I literally didn't even notice that happened. 288 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 2: So I do think a lot for me, it's fear 289 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 2: because when I have these unrealistic thoughts that are very 290 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 2: rarely confirmed, that's usually a fear driven thing for me. 291 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: I love your impersonation of you. Well, she doesn't actually 292 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: sound like no, I would never Yeah. 293 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 2: My impersonations of people are and myself included, are usually. 294 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: Very extreme amatic. Yeah, but I also love that you 295 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: just said like your client was like, oh what, I 296 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: didn't even notice that she really And so you mentioned 297 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: this earlier, I think before we started recording. But the 298 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: worst case scenario is what. 299 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 2: Like as a therapist, like for you, what's the worst 300 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 2: case like causing harm? 301 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, But what usually happens they either say 302 00:15:57,760 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: oh I didn't even notice that or. 303 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: That or oh my gosh, thank you so much for 304 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 2: bringing that up. You know, it was on my mind, 305 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 2: but I didn't want to bring it up. And usually 306 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 2: all think they're thinking one thing, they're actually thinking something else, 307 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 2: and it's usually less extreme. But it was an area 308 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 2: where we weren't really connecting and there was, you know, 309 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 2: that that disharmony, that not really being on the same page, 310 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 2: and I thought it was probably due to me, but 311 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 2: it was actually, oh, you know, I was actually thinking 312 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 2: about this other thing, but I was scared to tell you. 313 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 2: And so that's another thing that you know, making repairs 314 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 2: and immens has taught me that you can really trust 315 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 2: your instinct, Like if something feels off, it probably is off, 316 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 2: and you're probably not the only one feeling it in 317 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 2: the room. So yeah, what I found is that when 318 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 2: I do it, either they haven't been thinking about it, 319 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 2: or it opens up this whole new conversation that we 320 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 2: wouldn't have covered if we hadn't experienced this momentary discomfort 321 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 2: between the two of us, because it's usually related to 322 00:16:58,680 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 2: other things. 323 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: I know, how I said that one of my fears 324 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 1: is that the client won't trust me. This is very 325 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 1: interesting because what I think happens more often. Now. Nothing 326 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: is in absolutes here, so take all of this with 327 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: a grain of salt. But what I think usually happens, 328 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 1: at least for my experience, is when I see somebody 329 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: that I value or trust or look up to act 330 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: like a human being, be a human have humility, mess 331 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: up the sense of relief I get in my body. 332 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 1: I don't know how to describe. And one of my 333 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 1: favorite memories of being a client in therapy is when 334 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: a therapist did a little self disclosure and told me 335 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 1: a part of her life that was really missy, and 336 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know if I even said 337 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: this to her, or if I just said in my head, 338 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I'm gonna be okay. Yes, I'm 339 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: gonna be okay because I respect you and I see 340 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: what you're doing and you don't have all this perfect 341 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: all the time, Like I don't have to do that either. 342 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: And one of my favorite things also as I was 343 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: becoming a therapist is seeing other therapists be a little messy, 344 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 1: seeing other therapists not always have a perfect outfit on 345 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: and didn't always have to be dressed to business casual 346 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: and they like there's something about like seeing a therapist 347 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: go to work in jeans that I was like, oh cool, 348 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: I don't have to like we can relax a little bit. 349 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: I don't have to like look this part, play, this part, 350 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: be this. And I think as a client on the 351 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: other side, outside of even being a therapist, it allows 352 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 1: me space to actually like have the courage to do 353 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: the things that I'm in therapy to do. And so 354 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: while I'm the therapist thinking well, if I show them 355 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: then I'm not perfect, they won't trust me anymore. That 356 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: goes against what we actually are doing and what we're 357 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: trying to help people see in themselves is like, you 358 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 1: can be a human being and people will still love you. 359 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: So when we mess up as therapists, I see now 360 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: it is one hundred percent uncomfortable and such an asset 361 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: to the therapeutic process. And I think it's just so 362 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,959 Speaker 1: silly that at the same time I'm like, oh, like, 363 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be the opposite. 364 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 2: Well, I think that really speaks to kind of the 365 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 2: lens of connection versus disconnection, for rupture versus repair, because 366 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 2: from that story, it sounds like possibly the most you've 367 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 2: ever felt connected with your therapist in a way because 368 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 2: it's like, oh, I can relate to this person, and 369 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 2: you know, hopefully we like our therapists, and it's like, oh, 370 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 2: I really like this person. I look up to them, 371 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 2: I feel connected with them, and they don't have it 372 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 2: all together and sometimes they put their foot in their 373 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 2: mouth and sometimes they mess up their calendar and that's okay. 374 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 2: And so if it's okay for this person that I trust, admire, 375 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 2: look up to, maybe it's okay for me. And so 376 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 2: it's part of that modeling as well as you know 377 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,360 Speaker 2: that here and now experience of addressing something that came up. 378 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think having that happen in the more 379 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: beginning of that relationship. Later down the line, I saw 380 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 1: the therapist for like five years when there would be 381 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: things that I didn't really love that she said, I 382 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: had so much grace for that too. Yes, so she's 383 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: helping me lean into the therapy process as I think. 384 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: One thing that happens and I do see that happens 385 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: is and not even that it's happening within my clients 386 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: because I wouldn't know because they wouldn't come back, but 387 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: just hearing about stories from my friends and people around me, 388 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: is we judge so harshly, right, and we don't even 389 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: allow space for there to be a repair because we 390 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: see something we don't like in somebody, or we we 391 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 1: hear somebody we don't like from a therapist and we 392 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,199 Speaker 1: just never go back. And I think that it is 393 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: a disservice because you could actually gain more from not 394 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: having a perfect therapist then looking for it. 395 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, that also makes me think of one of the 396 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 2: biggest markers I look for in clients but also for 397 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 2: myself to kind of gauge how I'm doing is. 398 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 3: How rigid versus how flexible is their thinking? 399 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 2: So do they have really rigid black and white all 400 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 2: are nothing thinking where this person needs either perfect or 401 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 2: you know, oh, they made one mistake, I can't trust them. 402 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 2: I feel like this comes a lot comes up a 403 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 2: lot in dating, Like someone will recognize one flaw in 404 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 2: a potential. 405 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 3: Partner and they're like, oh, well no they're out. 406 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 2: So to me, that's that's very rigid versus flexible. Can 407 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 2: they see the gray area? Can they see that, Wow, 408 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 2: I really like so much about this person and yet 409 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 2: they make mistakes. And I think bringing that gray area 410 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 2: into the room of you know, yeah, we have a 411 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 2: lot of sessions where we're so connected and a lot 412 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 2: happens and you feel hurt and you feel seen and 413 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 2: you feel understood, but not one hundred percent of the 414 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 2: time because it's not really possible for humans. So I 415 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 2: almost think that practicing that vulnerability of addressing hey, I 416 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 2: messed up. You know, you might not have seen me 417 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 2: as someone who can mess up, but I am and 418 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 2: I did. 419 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 3: So can we. 420 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 2: Talk about that here and know that just because it 421 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 2: was unpleasant doesn't necessarily mean it's bad or the relationship 422 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 2: has to end or the relationship has changed for the worse. 423 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 2: Because even in my experience making repairs or amends has 424 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 2: strengthened my relationships, whether it's a therapeutic relationship or a friendship, 425 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 2: or a partnership or a family member. I've noticed that 426 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 2: if we can make it through those areas of discomfort 427 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 2: and talk about it, then we can talk about other things. 428 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 2: We don't have to sweep things under the rug. 429 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: And if we start with those little things too, yeah, 430 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: helpfully so if we never ever ever acknowledge any of 431 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: our little ruptures that we make, like the scheduling things, 432 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: or that I rolled my eyes when I should maybe 433 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 1: shouldn't have, or things like that, they're like the stairs 434 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: that lead to the safeness to be able to do 435 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: the big thing. Yeah, it opens up the door a 436 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: little bit. What I really want you guys to hear 437 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: is that as a therapist, as a human who is 438 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: a therapist, you are going to do things, yeah, that 439 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 1: cause rupture within your clients. We could have a list 440 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: that would take us three hours to read of what 441 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 1: that might. It's inevitable it's going to happen, and avoiding 442 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 1: it is only going to perpetuate the feelings and the 443 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: fears and the stories you have around that and leaning 444 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: into it is going to do one help you be 445 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: a better therapist to your clients, but also be a 446 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: more i think, authentic human being in your life outside 447 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: of that, because you're no longer holding yourself to a 448 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:55,360 Speaker 1: standard that is not human to hold. And the stories 449 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: we have around I will lose credibility or people won't 450 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: like me, I won't have those probably aren't going to happen. 451 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: But if you lean into those stories and you don't 452 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: do them, those stories will become solidified. Yes, yeah, And 453 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: if there are people that write you off because you've 454 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 1: made a mistake and you try to make amends, like one, 455 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: that sucks. Yeah, that just really sucks. And two, it 456 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that that was wrong for you to do 457 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: because living in the tension, sweeping things under the rug 458 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 1: and modeling that for your clients is hurting them more 459 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: than them not accepting that repair in them. 460 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 2: Leaving definitely, And that makes me think about you know, 461 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 2: these repairs, like you said, they're between two people, but 462 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 2: they also really affect what's going on inside of us. 463 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,719 Speaker 2: And so let's say in the scenario you'll really upset 464 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,679 Speaker 2: someone and you make or your attempt to make a 465 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 2: repair and amends and you recognize your part in things, 466 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 2: and you recognize how your actions affected the person you apologize, 467 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 2: You say how can I do it differently? And they say, nope, 468 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 2: I want nothing to do with you. I think an 469 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 2: effect that does come out of that that's positive is 470 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 2: when you lay your head down at night, the most 471 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 2: recent memory is how you tried to make an amends 472 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 2: and you really tried to repair it. And so maybe 473 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 2: the next repair is can you forgive yourself for making 474 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 2: that mistake, knowing you did everything in your power to 475 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 2: try to write that wrong and you know, maybe learn 476 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 2: from it and don't do it again. But knowing that, wow, 477 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 2: I am someone who goes out of the way in 478 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 2: this really uncomfortable situation to try to repair this relationship 479 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 2: for the better. Maybe they're a person who's not in 480 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,199 Speaker 2: a place to accept it, and that's okay. But what 481 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 2: I know about myself is I was vulnerable. I did 482 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 2: this thing that was really hard, And can I be 483 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 2: okay with just that because that's the only thing that's 484 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 2: in your control in that situation. 485 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: And you can't do better than the best you can do. Yeah. 486 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: I think that is something that I come back to 487 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 1: is when I look back and cringe on some things 488 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: that happened in the early stages of me being a therapist. 489 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: I have to say I was doing the best I 490 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: could with what I knew. And the only reason that 491 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: I'm good at certain things that I'm doing now is 492 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: because I learned how to do them. It's not because 493 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: I was born that way. I think maybe some people might. 494 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave space for that. Some people might be 495 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: born good at conflict. I wasn't born good at some 496 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: of this stuff. They are muscles that I've worked and 497 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: so I think anybody who's listening to this and is like, oh, 498 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: but you're going to mess up at making the repair, 499 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: and you're going to have the times where you didn't 500 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: know what to say and you said the wrong thing. 501 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: And I tried to give this grace to everybody, not 502 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: just myself. But we can't do better than the best 503 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: we can do. And so if you could have done 504 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: a better job at that time, I think we would 505 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: have chosen to do that. And so it's more about 506 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: accepting our limitations. 507 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that brings it full circle to 508 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 2: that shame piece of we really spend a lot of 509 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 2: time beating ourselves up for not knowing how to do 510 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 2: things that we've never learn to do. And you know, 511 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 2: part of that can I forgive myself for being in 512 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 2: a place where I hadn't learned that yet, And now 513 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 2: that I've learned it, I know now I can do 514 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 2: something with it that I know I would never choose 515 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 2: to make a that same exact mistake again, So, you know, 516 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 2: kind of looking at the shame piece there of like, 517 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 2: how is beating yourself up for making that mistake serving you? 518 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 1: It's probably probably not, probably not okay. And the last 519 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: thing I really want to touch on really quickly is 520 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: give an example of what this actually can look like, 521 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 1: because one thing I notice about any kind of conflict 522 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: is people really make it a lot bigger than it 523 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: needs to be. And I can just see somebody being like, okay, 524 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: almost kind of how you said you did it. Yes, 525 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna work on this all week, and I'm gonna 526 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: write this script out and I'm gonna sit down and 527 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: we're gonna spend the whole session talking about this thing 528 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: and end up being thirty seconds. Yes, And it does. 529 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: It can be as simple as hey, you know what 530 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: I was thinking about our last session and I realized 531 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,439 Speaker 1: that I missed some things that I think might be 532 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: important to you, and so I wanted to start this 533 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: session off one saying sorry that I wasn't at the 534 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: top of my game in that moment. And two, is 535 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: there anything that you want to share from last session? 536 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 1: Are there things that I didn't allow you space to 537 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 1: go down, or there are other thoughts that you had. 538 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: I want to give you that space, and then they 539 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: can say, oh, I don't know what you're talking about, 540 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: or actually, yeah, I was feeling this, and just then 541 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 1: you get to give them that space. 542 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think in that example there's two really 543 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 2: important elements. One is being specific about what I did, 544 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 2: because you know, if we come in there and we're like, hey, 545 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 2: you know that thing happened last week? Really sorry, they're like, 546 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 2: what are you talking about? So that specificity of this 547 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 2: was my action. But then the other really important element 548 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 2: that I heard there was how did it affect you? 549 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,479 Speaker 2: What was that experience like for you? What is it 550 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 2: like to discuss this now here, and so recognizing my 551 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 2: part but then not making it about me, making it 552 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 2: about our relationship, and what was the experience. 553 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 3: Like for you? 554 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: And one thing that I think is important, especially if 555 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: the client is like, oh, it wasn't that big of 556 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: a deal to offer. Okay, if in the future it 557 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: comes up, I want you to know it's okay to 558 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: bring it back in. Oh. I love that, because they 559 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: might have like, oh, gosh, I don't want I don't 560 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: want to talk about this, because maybe that's something they're 561 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: working on, is conflict and not wanting to be in that, 562 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: and so they might want to just like I don't 563 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:35,959 Speaker 1: want to talk about that. You're fine, everything's fine. I'm 564 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: a people pleaser. And as you continue to do work 565 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: with them, it might be like, actually, now that I'm 566 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: allowing myself to have feelings that pissed me off, Yes, 567 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: so we can come back to it. It doesn't have 568 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: to be like bury, Oh. 569 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 3: I love that. 570 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 2: It's the same thing, just opening the door a bit 571 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 2: so that you know, Hey, I'm comfortable talking about this 572 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 2: and I'm aware it happened, and I'm also happy to 573 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 2: wait until you're ready to talk about it. I'm happy 574 00:29:58,400 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 2: to move at your pace. 575 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: I also think it's okay if you notice something as 576 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: a therapist, I mean, you use your own discernment with 577 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: the client and the experience. If you're not going to 578 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: see them for like a month. I think it's totally 579 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: cool to send them an email and say, hey, this 580 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: has been on my mind. I just want you to 581 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: know that I feel XYZ because of XYZ. If you 582 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: want to talk about this next session, I'm happy to. 583 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: If you want to hop on a phone call, I'm 584 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: happy to. Depending on the client, you might decide something different. 585 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: But I don't think we always have to wait until 586 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: the next session, because sometimes next sessions aren't next week. Yes, 587 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: and that can be just as much for us as 588 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: it is for them as it is for the relationship too. 589 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 2: Definitely, and I think just recognizing that something happened before 590 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 2: we give ourselves or the client an opportunity to talk 591 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 2: ourselves out of it, like, oh, maybe I'm overreacting, maybe 592 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 2: it really didn't even happen. Just having that validation of wow, 593 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 2: I actually did feel really off in that session and 594 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 2: my therapist is confirming that I didn't make it up. 595 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 3: I think that's really impactful. 596 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: Going back to the power differential, Yeah, especially we're in 597 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: this space where sometimes our clients really are like, will 598 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: you tell me what I'm feeling? And I'm like, don't. 599 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: I can't do that right, But to me that makes sense. 600 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: It's like, well, if they did it, and they're the therapists, 601 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 1: and so maybe it's supposed to be like that, and 602 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: I'm just like sensitive and I'm I need to work 603 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: on that myself, and I just acknowledging that, like it 604 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: wasn't you, it was me. 605 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 2: Right, and just acknowledging the situation can be so reparative. 606 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 2: Like sometimes you know, I have this idea that a 607 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 2: repair is going to be I share my soliloquy of 608 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 2: here's my blundin, I'm so sorry and all these things, 609 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,479 Speaker 2: and it's really just like, oh my, thanks for saying that, 610 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 2: and it's moved on, We're done. It's just really validating 611 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,479 Speaker 2: and a lot of people I've learned from, you know, 612 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 2: my time as a therapist is that many people have 613 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 2: not been apologized to sincerely, you know, beyond the sorry 614 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 2: you took it that way, but recognizing something, bringing it 615 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 2: to the light and saying, hey, I'm sorry about this, 616 00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 2: what was your experience with that? Sometimes it's their first 617 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 2: opportunity to really discuss that, and whether it's you know, 618 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 2: over email or in person, it still has I think 619 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 2: a really positive impact for the relationship. 620 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I hope this was helpful for you guys, 621 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: and I hope even if you aren't a therapist, it 622 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: gives you some encouragement or some a little dose of 623 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: courage for you to go out and acknowledge that making 624 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: a repair is not making the rupture worse. It's most 625 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: likely going to help mend that and bring you closer together. 626 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: And I can say I'm so thankful for a lot 627 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: of the ruptures I've had within I mean, in my life, 628 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: but also not all of them because they weren't all repaired, 629 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: but some of the ruptures I've had as a therapist, 630 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: they have brought so much healing to our clients. And 631 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: also I can think of a couple experiences where there's 632 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: been a little bit of a rupture and when I 633 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: acknowledge it, it so much was opened up. Yes, like 634 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: the whole dynamic change. It's where the real work began. 635 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: And I had to be in a space where I 636 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: could set my ego on the desk and then sit 637 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: in their featuir and so not the easiest thing to 638 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: do all the time, especially when you're a new therapist 639 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: and you're like, I'm gonna save everybody's life. Yeah, I 640 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: think I was talking to you and I was like, 641 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: none of my clients are ever going to relapse? Yes, 642 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: because I'm really good at what I am doing. And me, 643 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: mom never ever had a client before in my life. 644 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: And I'm like, but there's something about me that's special. 645 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, there's not. 646 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a limit to what I could Okay, okay, 647 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 2: and we've seen the limits. Oh it's just one hour 648 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 2: for an entire week. 649 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 3: Okay, you no, no, there is a limit there. 650 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: Okay, Oh my god. Okay, Well that humble. If you 651 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,959 Speaker 1: have any questions, feel free to send them Katherine at 652 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: UNI Therapy podcast dot com. If you have ideas for 653 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: more topics on this or it can be a couch 654 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: talks question too. It doesn't just have to go to 655 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 1: the therapist's series. Send it our way if you want 656 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: to follow us at You Need Therapy podcast and at 657 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: three Quarters Therapy, and you can follow me at kat 658 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,439 Speaker 1: van Buren. I changed my name, oh fancy. I haven't 659 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,359 Speaker 1: changed anything else, but I changed my answer name. 660 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 2: Baby. 661 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: So okay, And also, thank you Bridget for doing this. 662 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: You'll be back a million more times. 663 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me again. 664 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: This is so fun, and I hope you guys have 665 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:29,720 Speaker 1: the day you need to have. Bye.