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Speaker 1: From Meat Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This

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Speaker 1: is Col's Week in Review with Ryan cal Calaan.

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Speaker 2: Here's Cal.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Cal's Week Interview, or Cal

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Speaker 1: the While, as we're calling all things these days. Good

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Speaker 1: friend of mine, Ted Cook with the North American Grouse Partnership.

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Speaker 1: Ted and I have known each other for a long time.

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Speaker 1: In fact, he's been on this podcast, but in a

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Speaker 1: very reserved capacity, and he generously gave the big spotlight

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Speaker 1: that he deserves to a bunch of ranchers that are

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Speaker 1: part of the Lesser Prairie Chicken land Owner Alliance. Ted

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Speaker 1: is a return hired and endangered species biologist. He is

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Speaker 1: the current CEO of North American Grouse Partnership. Correct yes, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And we shot this out a little bit online the

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Speaker 1: other week. North Dakota has officially announced that the greater

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Speaker 1: sage grouse is The headline said extinct, but it would

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Speaker 1: be extirpated, would be the more.

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Speaker 2: That's the better word. Yeah, extinct, it's like final everywhere.

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Speaker 2: This has just gone from this part of the range.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's they're the greater sage grouse is an

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Speaker 1: amazing bird. I love it. I grew up hunting that bird.

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Speaker 1: I hunt them every season and they're just like another

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Speaker 1: example of conservation. Isn't convenient because they need a specific

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Speaker 1: habitat to proliferate. Really they can hang on, but they

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Speaker 1: don't do well without old growth sagebrush.

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Speaker 2: Right yep, and the lack of tall structures. Just healthy

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Speaker 2: sage rush habitat, that's all. It's simple, healthy sagebrush habitat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So that's why Ted Cook is on and we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about not only the greater sage grouse,

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Speaker 1: but we'll probably get into some other gallinaceous species. And

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Speaker 1: the only reason I know that word galinacious is from

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Speaker 1: teb So so if that's not reason for spotlight enough,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. How we're sage grouse doing.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know? So I'll start with this framing cal

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Speaker 2: of the nine prairie grouse populations present in North America historically,

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Speaker 2: six of them are either extinct or recognized under the

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Speaker 2: Endangered Species Act, and the other three are declining. So

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Speaker 2: greater sage grouse are among the three are declining, along

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Speaker 2: with sharp tailed grouse and greater prairie chickens. The other

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Speaker 2: six you know, heath hens are extinct. That's the eastern

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Speaker 2: prairie grouse that's been extinct for a century at waters.

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Speaker 2: Prairie chickens Texas Coast are functionally extinct in the wild,

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Speaker 2: trying to reintroduce, and you've got greater you have two

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Speaker 2: populations of lesser prairie chickens, you have two smaller populations

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Speaker 2: of sage grouse, and they're all either listed or candidates

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Speaker 2: for are listing under the Endangered Species Act. And so

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Speaker 2: prairie grouse in general are in decline, have been declining.

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Speaker 2: And perhaps your listeners already know that grasslands in which

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Speaker 2: all these prairie grouse, including sage grouse depend on. Grasslands

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Speaker 2: are the most threatened ecosystem on the continent and then

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Speaker 2: the world. And it's the mission of the North American

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Speaker 2: Grouse Partnership to try to highlight this fact and use

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Speaker 2: these charismatic galinacious birds as you say, that's the you

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Speaker 2: of these chickens, turkeys, quailed, their gallinasous birds are the

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Speaker 2: ground oriented birds to use the prairie grouse. And so

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Speaker 2: that's greater prairie chickens, lesser prairie chickens, sharp tailed grouse,

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Speaker 2: sage grouse, those are the kind of the four species

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Speaker 2: groups of prairie grouse. The North Mary Grouse Partnership is

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Speaker 2: trying to feature these prairie grouse species, highlight their plight,

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Speaker 2: and issue our call for action to stop and reverse

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Speaker 2: the losses of grasslands the most threatened ecosystem, so greater

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Speaker 2: stage grouse among that, they're just on that downward trend

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Speaker 2: along with everything else.

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Speaker 1: Now, some of my listeners are going to know this already,

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Speaker 1: but we just talked about greater sage grouse needing the

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Speaker 1: sage brush. So why are you saying grasslands? Yes, great question.

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Speaker 2: So the sagebrush ecosystem is more precisely referred to as

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Speaker 2: the sage brush step ecosystem. Step. Now, that's step spelled

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Speaker 2: step pe and step with the extra P in the

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Speaker 2: extra e means grass land, so it's sagebrush grass land.

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Speaker 2: And so then you know sharp tail grouse and other

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Speaker 2: prairie grouse a lot of places where sharptail grass exists,

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Speaker 2: they can actually coexist with some shrub component in there

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Speaker 2: with sage grouse. Uniquely, they are sage brush obligates. But

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Speaker 2: rare is it that you will find a sage brush,

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Speaker 2: particularly in areas with sage grouse that's taller than say

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Speaker 2: three or four feet high. If you get structures eight

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Speaker 2: feet tall or taller, that begins to become a turnoff

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Speaker 2: for prairie grouse. They do not do well around tall structures.

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Speaker 2: They've evolved to avoid tall structures because tall structures are

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Speaker 2: where raptors purge to hunt them. And so sage grouse

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Speaker 2: kind of fall onto that moniker of prairie grouse because

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Speaker 2: it's sage brush step sage rush grass land ecosystem, and

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Speaker 2: the sage brush isn't much taller than the grass around it.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, stage grouse are really unique in the prairie

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Speaker 2: grouse world in that there they can exist without that

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Speaker 2: low sage component in their grassland habitat.

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Speaker 1: So I guess why have we seen the not extirpation,

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Speaker 1: but the extinction of these other grouse species.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the other grouse populations as we call them. It's

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Speaker 2: you know, biology is actually a lot messier than you think.

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Speaker 2: You know, what's the species, what's the subspecies, what's the population?

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Speaker 2: And so a lot of times population is determined by

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Speaker 2: how we manage them. Other times it's determined more by

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Speaker 2: genetic or other biochemical differences. Other times it's determined by

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Speaker 2: differences in habitat. But at the nine populations, heathens became extinct,

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Speaker 2: and to a significant degree because of overhunting settlers settled

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Speaker 2: on the East coast Man they were a convenient chicken

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Speaker 2: to eat for dinner. And the last one was last seen.

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Speaker 2: The last male was seen strutting by itself for the

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Speaker 2: last two years of its life on Martha's Vineyard in Massachusetts,

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Speaker 2: the last bastion of heathens. And then you get Atwater's

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Speaker 2: Perry chickens along the Texas Gulf Coast. And that's all

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Speaker 2: the rest of the piagraphs cal It's habitat loss and fragmentation,

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Speaker 2: and so Atwater's Perry chickens and all the Leicester Prairie

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Speaker 2: chickens now the Southwestern Great Plains recently listed under the

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Speaker 2: Endangered Species Act, all habitat loss and fragmentation.

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Speaker 1: And do you want to just explain fragmentation? You know,

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Speaker 1: I can explain some of this stuff, I promise, But

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Speaker 1: my golden rule is, once you get a biologist talking

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Speaker 1: about their thing, it's best to just let them roll.

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Speaker 2: So fragmentation, you know a lot of us who love

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Speaker 2: to hunt fish know this when we think about you know,

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Speaker 2: mule deer or pronghorn migrations right just you know, a

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Speaker 2: subdivision in the wrong spot, or you know, a deer

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Speaker 2: proof fence in the wrong spot can massively disrupt fragment

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Speaker 2: habitat for those large mammals. Same exact thing for prairie grouse.

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Speaker 2: You put a power line corridors through a swath of

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Speaker 2: good looking prairie grouse habitat, and those prairie grouse see

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Speaker 2: that as an enormous obstacle to get past. You put

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Speaker 2: a highway underneath that, it's gotten even worse. And then

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Speaker 2: you till some of that range land and you convert

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Speaker 2: into a farm ground using some of the eggs subsidies

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Speaker 2: that pay you to do it, even if you never

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Speaker 2: get a crop off of it, and that's it. That

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Speaker 2: fragments habitat. That habitat is fragmented, you know, for a

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Speaker 2: long time to come.

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Speaker 1: So fragmentation, right can be anything from a new housing

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Speaker 1: subdivision would be like a big example. But in the

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Speaker 1: case of these prairie birds where they are predisposed to avoid,

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Speaker 1: we're talking hundreds of thousands of years of predator evasion

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Speaker 1: have taught them to avoid tall st ructures. It can

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Speaker 1: be something as simple as people planning the wrong type

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Speaker 1: of trees or a power line corridor, you know, which

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Speaker 1: we can fix things like that a lot easier than

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Speaker 1: we can some of the other forms of development. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then on the habitat loss side of things, we're

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Speaker 1: typically seeing what agricultural changes moving from grazing to row crop.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. And so egg and energy development are

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Speaker 2: the two big ones across the range of the various

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Speaker 2: prairie grouse species. And yeah, the big one is And

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Speaker 2: I didn't even realize this until I started working with

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Speaker 2: the ranchers the last protecal lander alliance. But what happens

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Speaker 2: is US Department of Bag offers subsidies to landowners to

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Speaker 2: break out their grasslands, turn them into tilled farmland, and

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Speaker 2: they get paid the full value of that crop for

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Speaker 2: that year, even if they never pull off a crop.

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Speaker 2: And so if you're a rancher, you're faced with make

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Speaker 2: and say, you know whatever, one hundred bucks an acre

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Speaker 2: selling cows or one hundred and fifty bucks an acre

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Speaker 2: guaranteed payment from the federal government if you break out

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Speaker 2: your grand and ground and try to farm it, whether

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Speaker 2: you ever pull off a crop or not. I mean,

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Speaker 2: what would most of us do. Would you want to

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Speaker 2: get paid one hundred dollars an acre to do more

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Speaker 2: work or one hundred and fifty dollars an acre to well,

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Speaker 2: you know, we would pick the one hundred fifty dollars

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Speaker 2: an acre. Whether it's more or less work depends on

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Speaker 2: the circumstance.

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Speaker 1: Well, sure, yeah, I understand that part of it. But

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Speaker 1: how do you reconcile the fact that the Endangered Species

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Speaker 1: Act is also largely handled at the federal level. So

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Speaker 1: isn't the ESA talking to the Department of Agriculture.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's a great question. So in the air

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Speaker 2: in the one place, I guess, now, to two places

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Speaker 2: where we have prairie grouse species listed to the Endandered

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Speaker 2: Species Act, don't those prohibitions prohibitions against take of endangered

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Speaker 2: species prevent those programs from being implemented. And the short

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Speaker 2: answer is yes, they would if the fact set caused

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Speaker 2: it to be so. But prairie growths are notoriously difficult

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Speaker 2: to find and monitor, and they move around to different

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Speaker 2: places at different times of the year, and so and

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Speaker 2: all of this is private land, private Rangeland and so

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Speaker 2: if a rancher says, you know, I want to break

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Speaker 2: out those hundred acres over here and get paid to

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Speaker 2: farm it, it's pretty difficult to develop a fact set

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Speaker 2: around there and have evidence and then have the federal

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Speaker 2: government have the temerity to try to prosecute that landowner

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Speaker 2: to prevent them from converting to farmland. That's the reality

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Speaker 2: is that's just not happening right now, that kind of prohibition.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And why would it ever need to get to prosecution.

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Speaker 2: Well, because there's lots of contradictory policies in the federal

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Speaker 2: government that go on being implemented side by side forever.

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Speaker 2: And so for the Department of Interior to persuade the

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Speaker 2: Department of Agriculture to not offer those subsidies in certain

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Speaker 2: areas because of prairie gross seems untenable to me, because

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Speaker 2: then those ranchers in those areas that want to break

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Speaker 2: out their ranch land are going to say, what are

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Speaker 2: you talking about? Why can't I do this? I'm not

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Speaker 2: harming chickens when I do this. You can't prove that,

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Speaker 2: you know, pay me to be a farmer instead of

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Speaker 2: a rancher. So that's the conflicting policies. There's not a

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Speaker 2: natural fit to have one policy talked to.

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Speaker 1: The other and have them work it out, which is

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Speaker 1: why it seems like something you could work out. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what's the hurdle here? Yeah, so, and in fact you can.

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Speaker 2: And this is the leadership that Lesser pratickal Land Alliance

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Speaker 2: wants to provide. So what they're saying because some of

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Speaker 2: our less Praticklenar Alliance members, one of them, in particularly,

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Speaker 2: he earns ten thousand acres. Five thousand of that is

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Speaker 2: in farming. Five thousand of that is in ranching. That's

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Speaker 2: permanently conserved for lesser prairie chickens. The reason that five

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Speaker 2: thousand is permanently conserved is because when his neighbors and

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Speaker 2: other business people approached him and said, hey, we can

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Speaker 2: break out another three thousand of your remaining five thousand

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Speaker 2: acres of grassland and turn that into farm ground. You

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Speaker 2: can double your money overnight. That rancher said, thanks, but

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Speaker 2: no thanks. I want to stay a rancher. I know

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Speaker 2: I could sell out, I know I could make more money,

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Speaker 2: but I really want to keep this as ranch land.

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Speaker 2: And part of the reason why is He is one

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Speaker 2: of the most passionate archery, deer and antelope punters you

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Speaker 2: will ever meet in your life. He gets it, he

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Speaker 2: gets it right, and he loves Leicester prairie chickens, and

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Speaker 2: he feels it's his responsibility to steward lesser prairie chickens,

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Speaker 2: and he patiently sought out opportunities to sell a conservation

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Speaker 2: easement on his land to a conservation buyer to permanently

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Speaker 2: protect the five thousand acres for chickens. But it shouldn't

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Speaker 2: have to be that hard. It shouldn't take an exceptional

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Speaker 2: rancher like that, who loves hunting and loves lesser prairie

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Speaker 2: chickens to spend fifteen years of his life trying to

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Speaker 2: save ranching and chickens on his land. We need to

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Speaker 2: make it easier than that. And so what the Lester

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Speaker 2: pur Checking Land our Alliance proposes is to do just that,

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Speaker 2: to just agricultural policy, to not only make it easier

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Speaker 2: to break down to become a farmer, to make it

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Speaker 2: easier to stay a rancher, to get paid to be

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Speaker 2: a rancher, and provide the whole wealth of ecosystem services

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Speaker 2: that come along with healthy range lands.

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Speaker 1: And that is there's no balance, right. It's like you

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Speaker 1: can get paid one hundred and fifty dollars to fimat

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Speaker 1: or you can get paid less to keep it in grazing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you know ranching say it pays one

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Speaker 2: hundred buck and I'm throwing these numbers out, but say

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Speaker 2: ranching pays one hundred bucks an acre to sell your cows

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Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty bucks an acre guaranteed if you

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Speaker 2: break it out and try to harm, even if you're

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Speaker 2: not successful. Our proposal is to say, look look at

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Speaker 2: all the ecosystem services that come along with these healthy

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Speaker 2: range lands, clean water, clean air, more water, healthy soils,

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Speaker 2: healthy vegetation, healthy wildlife populations, carbon storage, and the massive

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Speaker 2: roots of these grassland ecosystems. These are all values that

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Speaker 2: Americans want to keep and they want to pay for.

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Speaker 2: In fact, we appropriate billions of dollars a year for

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Speaker 2: the express purpose of paying for these values. Yet it's

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Speaker 2: not going on the grounds sufficiently in the right places

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Speaker 2: to stop and reverse the loss of grasslands. And so

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Speaker 2: the list Perrie Chicken Lander Alliance is very specifically identified

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Speaker 2: forty two counties, and the methods by which the public

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Speaker 2: is invited to pay them for these ecosystem services to

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Speaker 2: make up the difference between one hundred dollars an acre

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Speaker 2: and one hundred and fifty dollars an acre. Then at

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Speaker 2: least a rancher could say, do I want to get

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Speaker 2: paid one hundred and fifty dollars an acre to break

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Speaker 2: out into farm ground? Or I do want to get

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Speaker 2: paid one hundred and fifty dollars an acre to grow

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Speaker 2: cows and provide ecosystem services together combined, which will get

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Speaker 2: me one hundred and fifty dollars an acre. That's the

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Speaker 2: magic that we're pursuing, giving the public the opportunity to

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Speaker 2: pay that extra fifty bucks an acre to keep it

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Speaker 2: in rangeland and keep lesser perry chickens and keep mule deer,

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Speaker 2: and keep pronghorn.

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Speaker 1: Keep pollinators, keep the tolerance, Yes, keep co assistance, all

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Speaker 1: that good stuff. Yeah, yeah, this is a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a tangent. But over here in the Shields Valley

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Speaker 1: just north of Livingston, Montana, new golf course going in,

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Speaker 1: or it's already in, and all sorts of lawsuits around

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Speaker 1: it because they're watering it. It'll so you got to

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Speaker 1: keep the sod and the greens watered, and it is

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Speaker 1: the basically the furthest western huntable population of greater sage

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Speaker 1: grouse in the state. And as far as I know,

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Speaker 1: they're not a golf course bird.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it really ticks me off. Like I said, it's tangent.

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Speaker 1: We don't need to need to dwell on that. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I just need to go over there and cut those

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Speaker 1: flags on the green down a little shorter.

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Speaker 2: But if it's another great example, here's where it's not

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Speaker 2: a tangent cow. Lesser prairie chickens became listed under the

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Speaker 2: Endangered Species Act on our watch. On Hunter's Watch eleven

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Speaker 2: years ago, you could hunt lesser prairie chickens. Today they're

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Speaker 2: listed under the Endangered Species Act. And you know we're

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Speaker 2: you know, talking about are going to be talking about,

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Speaker 2: you know, sage grouse in North Dakota. And I was

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Speaker 2: just talking to Jesse Cole, who North Dakota Game and

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Speaker 2: Fish supervises the program that did the counts that failed

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Speaker 2: to detect any mechs on the mails on the leck

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Speaker 2: of this spring. Jesse made the comment to me just

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Speaker 2: before I got on this program, cal that what really

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Speaker 2: he's seen this coming for a long time. He's not

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Speaker 2: that surprised. What really concerns him is that thirty to

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Speaker 2: fifty years from now, sharp tail grouse will be following

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Speaker 2: sage rouse in North Dakota if current trends continue. That

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Speaker 2: should scare the crap out of every one of your listeners.

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Speaker 2: And it's because of the things that you just talked

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Speaker 2: about there, you know, north of Livingstone, and US hunters

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Speaker 2: are letting these things happen day after day, year after

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Speaker 2: year because there's no one alarm. It's the boiling the

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Speaker 2: frog thing, right where if you know, put a frog

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Speaker 2: in a pot of water, turn on the heat, it'll die.

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Speaker 2: If you throw in a pot of hot water, it'll

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Speaker 2: immediately jump out. Well, the frog's been sitting in cool water,

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Speaker 2: and that water's getting pretty warm now when it comes

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Speaker 2: to grasslands and prairie grouse. And so that story that

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Speaker 2: you tell is yet another example of where we as hunters,

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Speaker 2: and we as Americans, not just US hunters, but where

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Speaker 2: some more, at some point we have to find the

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Speaker 2: opportunity to wake up and stand up and say no,

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Speaker 2: we need to save these places.

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Speaker 1: And I know people don't like to think of it

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Speaker 1: in terms of a resource. Right, But if you do,

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Speaker 1: you have a really unbelievable public resource in these huntable species.

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Speaker 1: And in order to have huntable species, as we just

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Speaker 1: talked about, there's all these ecosystem benefits that come along

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Speaker 1: with making sure those huntable species are there, that's right.

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Speaker 1: And you balance that with the fact that there's a

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Speaker 1: couple of landowners that are going to make a ton

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Speaker 1: of money with a golf course for a very very

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Speaker 1: exclusive experience for a handful of people, in comparison to

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Speaker 1: the folks that could be out walking around and spending

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Speaker 1: gas money and food money in small towns pursuing gallinaceous birds.

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Speaker 1: So in which like I don't have an answer to

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Speaker 1: right other than talking about this stuff that I know

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Speaker 1: and feel so strongly is such an amazing thing, resource,

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Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it. Having those experiences in

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Speaker 1: my life have certainly benefited me, I feel. But when

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Speaker 1: we talk about North Dakota and this recent article that

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Speaker 1: came out in The Green Wire proclaiming that the sage

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Speaker 1: grouse is extinct from North Dakota part of its native range,

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Speaker 1: what happens specifically in North.

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Speaker 2: Dakota habitat loss and fragmentation.

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Speaker 1: In the form of anything different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the two biggest drivers I was talking with

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Speaker 2: Jesse Color again North Dakota, game and fish egg and

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Speaker 2: energy development, which is the same thing in the southwestern

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Speaker 2: right plains everywhere else, and specifically he talked about breaking

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Speaker 2: out farm ground using farm Bill's subsidies. He also talked

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Speaker 2: about ranchers developing or improving range lands by chaining or

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Speaker 2: burning sagebrush so there's more grass for the cows to eat.

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Speaker 2: And then energy development. They've got a lot of oil

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Speaker 2: and gas there in North Dakota, a lot of energy

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Speaker 2: transmission going on as well. I'm sure they've got renewables

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 1: Know, right, some more more vertical structures, but also a

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Speaker 1: lot more traffic out there servicing that's right, wells and

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Speaker 1: pumps and highways and fence lines, yeah, even fence lines.

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Speaker 1: You know, all those things are wear and tear on

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Speaker 1: grassland loving species. And it's not just sage grouse I mentioned.

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Speaker 1: You know, Western Kansas mule deer are really in sharp decline.

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Speaker 1: You know, we already have a listed population of pronghorn

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Speaker 1: in the US in Arizona listed under the Endangered Species Act.

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Speaker 1: How long is it going to be before we list

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Speaker 1: pronghorn somewhere and say in the southwestern Great Plains or

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Speaker 1: in the northern Great Plains, or wherever else some scientists

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Speaker 1: finds a genetically distinct population.

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Speaker 2: They're all in decline. Right as grasslands go, so go pronghorn,

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Speaker 2: so go mule deer.

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Speaker 1: California has got an endangered population of pronghorn as well.

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Speaker 2: That I think you might be right. Yeah, and so

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Speaker 2: and you know here again Jesse cull ours words to

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Speaker 2: me in North Dakota this a while ago. You know,

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Speaker 2: sage grouse. He's disappointed about sharp tail grouse. Thirty to

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Speaker 2: fifty years from now. He's scared for Yeah, we should

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Speaker 2: all be scared. We should all, we should.

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Speaker 1: And you know, sage grouse to me are an incredible,

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Speaker 1: very special bird. I think there's probably a greater population

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Speaker 1: of birders that are in love with the sage grouse

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Speaker 1: than hunters that that are in love with the sage grouse.

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Speaker 1: Because folks who grew up in sage grouse country were

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Speaker 1: told while in the womb that you couldn't eat a

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Speaker 1: sage grouse. But the truth be told, Yeah, greater sage

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Speaker 1: grouse ties are about the best eaten gallinaceous bird meat

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Speaker 1: there is. In my opinion, they're fantastic and huge. They're also,

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Speaker 1: you know, an incredible bird for getting somebody their first double.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: If you're shooting an over and under your side by

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Speaker 1: side because they just don't move.

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Speaker 2: Fast, that's right, you have time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it is. It's one of those

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Speaker 1: things where were it a light clicks on in somebody's

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Speaker 1: head where they're like, oh my gosh, this is actually possible.

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Speaker 1: I can flush a bird, I can identify it, I

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Speaker 1: can get the safety off, I can shoot it, and

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Speaker 1: then I can look for the next bird and get

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Speaker 1: it too. And then that really does apply to all

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Speaker 1: the faster birds and more challenging birds. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of people are like, why the

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Speaker 1: hell are you talking about hunting birds that you're you've

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Speaker 1: already talked about is extirpated from states and endangered. And

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Speaker 1: you know the reason is is because somehow, some way

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Speaker 1: we need to aside. I'd like you to provide the

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Speaker 1: biological reason, but the social reason I'm providing is somehow,

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Speaker 1: some way we need people to be invested in this bird.

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Speaker 1: And the more invested they are, the more easily we

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Speaker 1: can activate them to stand up for these big charismatic

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Speaker 1: birds and then to jump over to the sharp tail grouse.

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Speaker 1: The reason I brought up how few people relatively hunting

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Speaker 1: appreciate the greater sage growse. Well, there's probably one hundred

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Speaker 1: times the amount of people who spend big money and

400
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Speaker 1: travel thousands of miles to hunt sharp tails with their

401
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Speaker 1: fancy pointing dogs.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and another terrific upland bird. It is a fantastic

403
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Speaker 2: upland bird. Yeah, they're not a lot faster than sage grouse.

404
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Speaker 2: I'll tell you that they're faster, but not a lot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just a smaller target. Yeah, and those people

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Speaker 1: need to stand up right now too, because by and

407
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Speaker 1: large it's the same habitat. Yeah, you can hunt the

408
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Speaker 1: brushy stuff as you mentioned for sharp tales, but they're

409
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Speaker 1: not going to stick around if all there is is

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Speaker 1: plowed fields and hedgerows. They need that, they need that grassland.

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Speaker 2: Step Yep, that's right.

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Speaker 1: So what is it? What's the biological answer to hunting

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Speaker 1: these populations?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so hunting is not a threat to most species

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Speaker 2: managed for hunting today. You know, one of the most

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Speaker 2: famous examples is the trajectory of snow goose populations in

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Speaker 2: North America over the last twenty thirty years. I mean,

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Speaker 2: they've fluctuated wildly from low to extremely high, back down

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Speaker 2: to kind of low again, and hunting is zero percent

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00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 2: influence on those mass fluctuations. And the same thing as

421
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 2: said for prairie gause populations. Very different circumstance from waterfowl.

422
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Speaker 2: But the reason we continue to lose prairie grouse populations

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Speaker 2: is habitat loss and fragmentation that has nothing to do

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Speaker 2: with hunting. In fact, the more people we can get

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Speaker 2: to hunt and be interested in hunting, the more people

426
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Speaker 2: we have to advocate to keep those remaining habitats. Now,

427
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Speaker 2: now here's the thing that's really tricky for most prairie grouse.

428
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Speaker 2: Sage grouse are a little bit of an exception, but

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Speaker 2: I'll use lesher prairie chickens as the example. Over ninety

430
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 2: percent of remaining lesser prairie chicken habitat is on private

431
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 2: range lands. It's on private ground managed for grazing. And

432
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: here's the kicker. Ranching pays less than any other form

433
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 2: of land use. That's why grasslands are the most threatened

434
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 2: ecosystem on the continent. Of the world and why lush

435
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 2: preire chingins are all listed under the essay because somebody

436
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 2: can knock on their door and say farm land, solar, wind,

437
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 2: oil and gas transmission subdivision blah blah blah. Right, and

438
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 2: and so hunting just doesn't hold a candle to the

439
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 2: massive negative impacts of all those different competing forms of development.

440
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 2: And in fact, hunters are neat must be. Hunters must

441
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 2: be a part of the solution. And if we hunters

442
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 2: are not a part of the solution, we will not

443
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 2: save prairie goes. I feel that it's that clear, it's

444
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 2: that strong, it's that direct. If we don't stand up

445
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 2: for what we love, who will? Yeah?

446
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, and it's just anytime, you know,

447
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: I'll be driving back over to South Dakota this late fall,

448
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: early winter is what's on the books right now, and

449
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: I guarantee you I'll see folks installing drain.

450
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 2: Tile and that's right.

451
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: And you know, things that we just cannot get back,

452
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: those intermittent wetlands that all of a sudden disappear.

453
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that they need that water, they need

454
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 2: those wet edges, They need a whole bunch of little

455
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 2: wet edges, and that's exactly what farmers tile first. Yes,

456
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 2: that's right.

457
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what does you know the rank and file

458
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: American have to say about something as big as the

459
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: farm bill, especially what you're talking about, which is trying

460
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: to get another program or or I know, you know,

461
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: we've talked about the North American Grasslands Conservation Act, something

462
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: that big into existence.

463
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. So this is where Ted's weird thinking gets feed.

464
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 2: So we have lots of incredible conservation groups out there,

465
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 2: Peasants Forever, National Wildlife Federation who are leading the charge

466
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 2: on Farmville policies and policy changes that have been and

467
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 2: are really important. We've got National Wildlife Federation really providing

468
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 2: excellent leadership on North American Grassans Conservation Act. And by

469
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: the way, North Americ Gross Partnership supports all these things.

470
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: But the tact that we have taken, given the fact

471
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 2: that we've recently admitted lesser prairie chickens to the emergency

472
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: room of conservation by listing them under the Endangerous Species Act,

473
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 2: as we said, you know what, let's go ask the

474
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: people who actually own the land if they care, and

475
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 2: if they say they care, let's ask them what they

476
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 2: need and now we have the Lesser Prairie Chicken Landowner Alliance,

477
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 2: which is a bunch of very caring, visionary, passionate landowners

478
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 2: who love wildlife and who love lesser Prairie chickens. And

479
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 2: some of them even loved to hunt, as I said,

480
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 2: And so we asked them, and you know what, the

481
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 2: first thing they said. The LPCLA started a little over

482
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 2: three years agow first call, we said, They said, you

483
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 2: know what, Ted, Nobody's ever asked us before what we want.

484
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 2: And they said, here's what we don't want. We don't

485
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: want subsidies, we don't want cost share, we don't want incentives.

486
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 2: And that's all what the Farm Bill is all about.

487
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 2: And these are people that know, because not only are

488
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: some of our ranchers, some of them are also farmers

489
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 2: that participate in those subsidy programs. But it's not the

490
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 2: way they want to make a living. They don't want

491
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 2: a subsidy. They know they've got values on their land

492
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 2: that all Americans want and want to pay for, including

493
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 2: these valuable ecosystem services clean air, clean water, healthy soils, wildlife.

494
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 2: They would love to save an endangered species, they just

495
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,479
Speaker 2: can't afford to pay for it. Out of their own pocket,

496
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 2: and they simply want to offer the American public the

497
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 2: opportunity to pay for that alongside of growing beef and

498
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 2: feeding Americans, which is the real reason they're on that

499
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 2: land in the first place. And so that's the difference

500
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 2: in this tact. It's not the North American Grouse Partnership

501
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 2: going to Congress or the administ Trump administration saying hey,

502
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 2: let's do this, let's do that. We're supporting these landowners

503
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: gathering their own voice and doing it. And here's the

504
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 2: real parallel to the hunters and anglers. You've got to

505
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 2: kick out of this, your listeners. Will ranchers became ranchers

506
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 2: because they'd rather be out on the land amongst animals

507
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 2: and not around people. How about us hunters and anglers, right,

508
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 2: I mean, we like to hunt and fish because we

509
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 2: like to go out in the woods by ourselves instead

510
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 2: of being around people. Same principle. Right. Well, to try

511
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 2: to get these landowners, these ranchers, to say, hey, put

512
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: on your best cowboy hat and pair of jeans and

513
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 2: let's fly to Washington, DC and talk to some people.

514
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 2: That is anathema to these individuals. And it is a long,

515
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 2: slow process. Now they want to do it. They want

516
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 2: to be empowered to do it. The North American Grouse

517
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: Partnership and this Retired and Endangered Species biologists you're talking

518
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 2: to you right now, cal is trying to figure out

519
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 2: how to do with it. And we're getting terrifics from

520
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 2: wonderful humans like Maryland Vettor with Pheasants Forever and and

521
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 2: folks with Nationalwideffederate Nation Conservancy. But we're right in the

522
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 2: middle of this journey right now, empowering these people who

523
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 2: actually own the land and participate in the programs to

524
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 2: say what they need to save grasslands in prairie grass

525
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: and and and it's to get paid fair market value

526
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 2: for the ecosystem services that they've been giving away for

527
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 2: generations on their lands.

528
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: I all the meetings I had on on the hill

529
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: in d C a few months ago, I would just say, hey,

530
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: I got a real easy one for you. I'm like,

531
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: you ever heard of the Lesser Prairie Chicken Land Owner Alliance?

532
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: You ever heard of grazing land. I'm like, here's a

533
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: bunch of conservative folks by and large, Yeah, that really

534
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: needs some help. Give them, give them a reason to

535
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: stay in business, you know, And it's one of those

536
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,719
Speaker 1: things that helping on the private side of the fans

537
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: is the biggest part of the solution puzzle that we

538
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 1: have with a lot of these species.

539
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 2: And a lot of these states. That's right, that's right.

540
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 2: And you know recent Appropriations bill included increased funding for

541
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: VPA hip right, that's voluntary public access habotat improvement for

542
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 2: states to pay for more access to these private lands

543
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 2: for hunters. Yep. And let's pair that up with long

544
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: term permanent conservation that keeps ranchers ranching while continuing to

545
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 2: grow an endangered species and mule deer and quail and

546
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 2: everything else. I mean, this isn't that hard, and it's

547
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 2: not even that expensive, and we don't even need a

548
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 2: new pile of money to do it. We just need

549
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 2: to take the dollars we're already putting towards these programs

550
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 2: and spend them in a more strategic and focused area.

551
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 2: So the losers might be, say, people closer to Kansas

552
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 2: City who really don't have much left on their property

553
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 2: in terms of wildlfe, and the winners are these people

554
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 2: on remote ranches in the western part of Kansas, for example,

555
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 2: who can sustain these last best places in our grass

556
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 2: land ecosystems.

557
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I know on the state level, you know,

558
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: Kansas was working on some language that would you know,

559
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,720
Speaker 1: make sure that those public access to private land dollars

560
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 1: were spent in a more strategic way by making sure

561
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 1: there's good habitat yes on the properties before providing those

562
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: access dollars to a property there where occasionally an animal

563
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: might pass through.

564
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 2: That's right, and.

565
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: I think you know, probably a base level solution here

566
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: is people just need to pay attention and be involved.

567
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 2: Right, That's right, That's right. And in the bottom line

568
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 2: is again, you know, if if ninety percent of the

569
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,760
Speaker 2: habit of the land is privately owned, let's ask these people,

570
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 2: do you care? And if so, how can we help

571
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 2: you help us? That's the strategy the North American House

572
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 2: Partnership is taking. And that's what it's you know, when

573
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 2: you say pay attention, call that's the thing that's I

574
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 2: don't know, it just hasn't been part of the conservation

575
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 2: communities thinking to stand behind the private landowner to conserve

576
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 2: I think when hunters and anglers think of private land,

577
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 2: they think of owning a parcel of the sake and

578
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 2: hunter fish on it. They don't think of supporting some

579
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 2: private landowner out there to provide the habitat to support

580
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 2: the species that they love. And it's and I get it.

581
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 2: I mean that's it's a bit of a new paradigm,

582
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 2: but it's also immediately logical, I think and foreseeable that

583
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 2: this is if we're going to save the most threatened

584
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 2: ecosystem on the continent and then the world, that's what

585
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 2: it's going to take. Either that or we buy it

586
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 2: all up. And I don't see that happening anytime soon.

587
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: No, And you know, there's so many competing interests on

588
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: on you know, both private and public ground, but you know,

589
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: like the location of wind farms and solar and to

590
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: me speaking, you know clearly and frankly, some of this

591
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: is the result of people does not wanting to do

592
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 1: the hard work. Okay, it's all that land, the same

593
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: old thing of like, well all that public lands not

594
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 1: doing anything, Why don't we just stick it out there?

595
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, no, and we unfortunately we do have public

596
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 2: land parcels in here. Those can become part of the equation.

597
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's if we're going to save the most

598
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 2: threatened ecosystem of the continent, it requires a new paradigm.

599
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 2: It requires partnering with the people who own it and

600
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 2: who want to save it as well, finding those people

601
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 2: who want to save it alongside the rest of us

602
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 2: people who care, and then agreeing on how we can

603
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: become partners to do so. That's all.

604
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you're not talking about the big scary government

605
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 1: overreach scenario, right.

606
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 2: This is all povoluntary participation. That's right. We're not gonna

607
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 2: nobody's going to make any landowner do anything they don't

608
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 2: want to do. But that's why it's really important to

609
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 2: find those landowners who really care and who want the

610
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 2: same outcomes as we conservationists want. I mean, that's really

611
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 2: where the magic begins, finding those landowners that care just

612
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 2: like us.

613
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: And folks who are listening. You got to be reminded, right,

614
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: there's you know, in my mind, somewhere around we'll call

615
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 1: it upper five hundred million acres of huntable federally managed

616
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: public land in the US we always say six hundred

617
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,479
Speaker 1: and forty million, but be a little more objective at

618
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: stuff that you can actually hunt. It's lower and land

619
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 1: set aside, specifically specifically for agriculture in the United States

620
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: are just under two billion acres.

621
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 2: So I didn't know that.

622
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: If and don't ever let this be separated into an

623
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: either or yeah type of conversation.

624
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 2: We got to get past that.

625
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: We got to grow up and be adults and understand

626
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: that if we really want it, nothing's got to be

627
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: in either or. But one side of the fence is

628
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: going to facilitate the other side of the fence, and

629
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: vice versa. But we got to fight to make it happen.

630
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,760
Speaker 2: So cal, that's a great number. I'm going to highlight

631
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 2: that five hundred million public huntable public land acres, two

632
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 2: billion acres dedicated.

633
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: To ag Yeah, I would over yeah.

634
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 2: Okay, And so why wouldn't we then turn to these

635
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 2: lands that already harbor so many of the species that

636
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 2: we love to hunt for and fish for, and work

637
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: with the people who own the land to figure out

638
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 2: how to conserve it long term and provide access.

639
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: All right, sorry, Ted, let me let me let's I

640
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: just found my notes here again. Okay, this is where

641
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: I was going with this. Three hundred and forty million

642
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 1: people in the United States. Let's say there's five hundred

643
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: and ninety million huntable acres under federal management, right, so

644
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: that is by to fall open to three hundred and

645
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: forty million people in the United States, right, so you

646
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: know it's that's roughly person every let's say like one

647
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: acre and change. Yeah, and then there agriculture specifically privately

648
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: held one point one nine billion acres, okay, right, so

649
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: basically elbow yeah. But the public estate is.

650
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 2: So yeah. So if we've got double uh, you know,

651
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 2: the amount of private land and it harbors all these

652
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 2: species that we love to pursue and that we value

653
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 2: in other ways, then you know, why wouldn't we find

654
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 2: new and important ways to partner with those who actually

655
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 2: own the lands and the habitats about how to sustain that?

656
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, because there's threats to all of the above.

657
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 2: Obvious, that's right, and it's I tell you, it's a

658
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 2: funny thing we have. We were a couple of ranchers

659
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,760
Speaker 2: in North Texas are on the Less Bridging Atlanta Alliance.

660
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 2: If you met them off the street, you'd think they're

661
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 2: the crustiest, most anti government, you know, hardcore North Texas

662
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 2: ranchers you could ever see you walk off the pages

663
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 2: of a of a book. They are a couple of

664
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,399
Speaker 2: the most hard core environmentalists when it comes to trying

665
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 2: to keep wind energy from taking the last lesser prairie

666
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 2: chickens in their county. They are desperate for help to

667
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 2: save lesser prairie chickens. And it's not just about the chickens.

668
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 2: It's about their ranching and about all the other wildlife.

669
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,919
Speaker 2: And it's about the chickens too. Their hearts are as

670
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 2: green as some of the greenest environmentals you ever met.

671
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 2: It's beautiful. It makes you want to cry. And if

672
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 2: we can't find ways to identify these awesome humans that

673
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:36,280
Speaker 2: have the special privilege of owning these lands and support them,

674
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 2: we're not doing right by our children's children. We're not

675
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,760
Speaker 2: doing all we can do to make sure our children's

676
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 2: children have access to these resources. We've got to forge

677
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 2: these new pathways in these new partnerships.

678
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: And it's a low hanging fruit, right, like these people

679
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,959
Speaker 1: are voluntarily wanting to do it. Yes, if we can't

680
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: help them, we're basically giving up exactly.

681
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 2: Our interests are so aligned it's hilarious. Yeah, So when

682
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 2: wouldn't we know that at first?

683
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: Where are we on the North American Grasslands Conservation I Act?

684
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 2: Oh, a little bit stalled out, you know, Congress has

685
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 2: headed a recess here in a couple of weeks, but

686
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 2: we've made a lot of good progress. I think we've

687
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 2: gotten a couple of co sponsors on either side of

688
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 2: the aisle in Cali. Let's see, I'm trying to think

689
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 2: of the last call I participated in on that. So

690
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 2: I would say, in the bigger picture sense, we continue

691
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 2: to make steady progress, and we're getting closer and closer

692
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 2: to the kind of support you'd eventually want to see

693
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 2: for a bill like this. And this is going to

694
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 2: be one of those kinds of bills that's obviously going

695
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 2: to be many years in the making, as it's already

696
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 2: been a couple of years. But the champions of it,

697
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,320
Speaker 2: you know, National Wildlife Federation, Peasants Forever and others can

698
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 2: continue to take steps every day, and then partner groups

699
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 2: like the North American Grouse Partnership, we occasionally weigh in

700
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 2: where we can to try to continue to build support

701
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 2: for that. So still a ways away, but we're closer

702
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 2: than we've been before.

703
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 1: And the nuts and bolts of that one is a

704
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: huge part of what we're talking about right It's finding

705
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: that way to facilitate the stewardship of these grasslands through

706
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: kind of a sister model to the North American Wetlands

707
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: Conservation Act, which is basically the only thing out there

708
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 1: aside from a few state programs that are helping people

709
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 1: make the right decision when it comes to draining that

710
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: intermittent wetland or keeping it producing as is.

711
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 2: That's right. And they do it by buying conservation, you know,

712
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 2: by paying money. Again, these are private lands. These people

713
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 2: trying to figure out how much how they can how

714
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 2: they can best make money off these lands. One of

715
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 2: the ways they can make money is by selling conservation.

716
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:04,919
Speaker 2: A lot of people want to do that, a lot

717
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 2: of people really care. And you said it, right, cal,

718
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 2: I mean, this is North America Grasslands Act model out

719
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 2: to North American Wetlands Conservation Act. And then some people ask, well,

720
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 2: you got all these farm bill programs under USDA, and

721
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 2: then you got the Wetlands Act and soon to be

722
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 2: Grasslands Act under the Apartment of the Interior. Why two

723
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,839
Speaker 2: different departments? Why why can't they all just be one?

724
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 2: And here's the answer. Under farm bill programs on the

725
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 2: US Department of Agriculture, those programs are designed to help

726
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 2: producers while helping conservation, but under the Department of the

727
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 2: Interior with the North American Wetlands Act and the Grasslands Act,

728
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 2: those programs are designed to help conservation while helping the producer,

729
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 2: right different priority. One starts with the producer tries to

730
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 2: affect conservation, the other one starts with conservation reaches out

731
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 2: to the producer, and that co mingling of priorities across

732
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 2: the landscape has really done well for conserving wetlands on

733
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 2: the northern plains, and we'd like to see that for

734
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 2: grasslands everywhere.

735
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 1: And Ted, do you have any resources you could point

736
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 1: people to for seeing some of these birds, like when

737
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 1: it's dancing season, when they're out on the les and

738
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: folks just want to see how charismatic these critters are.

739
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: Do you have any resources you could point them to there?

740
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, so on the Grounds Partners dot org website, we

741
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 2: have some resources the individual state wildlife management agencies. I

742
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,479
Speaker 2: think we'll have resources as well. For lesser prairie chickens.

743
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 2: There's actually a guy does a commercial operation and I

744
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 2: can't say the name of his operation right now, but

745
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 2: I think if you looked up lesser prairie chicken viewing,

746
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 2: you'd pretty quickly find an opportunity to do that, and

747
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 2: it's on one of our lesser period tickle Land Alliance's

748
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 2: ranches where he's got blinds built on a couple of LECs.

749
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 2: It's really a great operation. They do a great job.

750
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 2: And then I'm not sure if there are other birding

751
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 2: tours for example, I'm thinking sage grouse call and I'm

752
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:07,919
Speaker 2: not sure if you know, But so you can start

753
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,320
Speaker 2: with our website. You can go to the state agency websites,

754
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 2: and then you can do a search online for things

755
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 2: specifically like lesser prairie chickens and you'll find specific opportunities there.

756
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think American prairie here in Montana has some

757
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: pretty fantastic opportunities.

758
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 2: That would be a great resource, good good catch, yeah.

759
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: Yeah for the greater sage grouse. And then sharpdals do

760
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: a great little dance too. They're pretty darn fun.

761
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 2: Boy And for anybody listening, if you have not seen

762
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 2: a prairie grouse dance or boom and it's kind of different.

763
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 2: I mean, sharptiales really do this hilarious little foot stomp

764
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 2: and dance, whereas male sage grouse like are knocking you

765
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 2: over with a cannon. Yes, but both of them are

766
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 2: the displays of the males. And it is really to

767
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 2: see a bunch of males on a lec and to

768
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 2: watch those females casually sproll through like they're walking down

769
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 2: the middle of a bar checking out all the guys,

770
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 2: you know, deciding who they're gonna let's talk to them.

771
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 2: It's a it's a it's a it's a moving experience.

772
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: It's it's awesome, absolutely, And then that'd be a great

773
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 1: step if you really want to understand, hopefully some of

774
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: the passion that you heard today around these super cool birds.

775
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: And then if you want to get involved and help out,

776
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 1: which I'll certainly be calling on you to do, whether

777
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: you like it or not. How do folks figure out

778
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 1: that step? Ted, where's their best points of contact?

779
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so look up North American grass Lands Conservation Act,

780
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 2: figure out how to get involved supporting that, and then

781
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 2: Grouse Partners dot org. Please become a member of the

782
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 2: North American Grouse Partnership. We think that we're building the

783
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,879
Speaker 2: model that is going to save the day for grasslands

784
00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 2: by empowering ranchers to say what they need to get

785
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 2: paid fair market value. For Ecosys some services will continue

786
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 2: to raise beef for all Americans and saving an endangered species.

787
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 2: And once we get that model built in the Southwestern

788
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 2: Great Plains, we're going to export it elsewhere so that

789
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,399
Speaker 2: Jesse Kolar in North Dakota no longer has to worry

790
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,879
Speaker 2: about losing sharp tail grouse in North Dakota in thirty

791
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 2: to fifty years.

792
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 1: Through North American Grouse Partnership. Pheasants Forever, quail forever. You know.

793
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 2: Pheasants Forever, by the way, is another. They are the

794
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 2: leader in so many ways in upland bird conservation.

795
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 1: So absolutely thank you Cal and TRCP b Ah. We

796
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: all will absolutely be pointing people towards the Grasslands North

797
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:53,479
Speaker 1: American Grasslands Conservation Act. But if you feel like doing

798
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: some reading up on your own and lobbying on your own,

799
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: you're you're absolutely welcome to do so. It takes as

800
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: a phone callar and name now tell people that this

801
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: is something that you want to see make happen for

802
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,240
Speaker 1: all your own reasons and maybe some of the reasons

803
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: that you're heard here today, and like Ted said, become

804
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 1: a member North American Grasslands or I'm sorry that partnership

805
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: North American grouse partnership. I think I still you guys

806
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:23,320
Speaker 1: some money. I know, I do. I got to get

807
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 1: that's right, that's right. Yeah, yeah.

808
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 2: And in terms of taking action, I think ask your

809
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 2: congress person or Senator, Hey, I understand grasslands are the

810
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 2: most threatened ecosystem on the continent of the world. What

811
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 2: are you doing to help save them? Even just a

812
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 2: simple email like that. It's not actionable now, but what

813
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 2: that's going to do. It's going to set you up

814
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 2: so that when I'm back on your podcast here in

815
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 2: a few months and the landowners are making their big

816
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 2: push cow that your members can can listen to this

817
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 2: and reach out specifically and directly to support the request

818
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 2: for partnership coming from the landowners themselves.

819
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 1: That's great advice. You know what, Ted, I'd want to

820
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: wrap this up because they want to keep it short.

821
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: But we're ignoring one very obvious question that we have

822
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: to hit here is can we put sage grouse back?

823
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 1: Are they gone from North Dakota for good?

824
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 2: So sage grouse could make their way back to North

825
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 2: Dakota if the habitat was sufficient to support them and

826
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 2: it was connected to already occupied habitat but I'll tell

827
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 2: you cal restoring galinaceous birds through reintroduction it is. How

828
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 2: do I want to say it. I don't want to

829
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 2: say it's impossible. I don't want to say it's never

830
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 2: been done. It's extremely difficult. And the reason is all

831
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,800
Speaker 2: these birds. You get a dozen to twenty birds on

832
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 2: a leck, and you need multiple lecks, and you need

833
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 2: multiple females attending all these lecks, and then they all

834
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 2: have to have sex, and the female will have to

835
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 2: go lay their eggs and raise their young. And if

836
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 2: you bring a bunch of birds into a new habitat

837
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:06,720
Speaker 2: and dump them out on the ground, it's extremely hard

838
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 2: to create a meta population out of thin air like

839
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 2: that and expect them to be successful, to expect them

840
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 2: to know where to go to lack, know where to

841
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:20,760
Speaker 2: go to nest, where to go to feed their young brood,

842
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:26,240
Speaker 2: you know, in wet meadows along wetlands. So the best

843
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 2: that we can hope for is to save habitats that

844
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 2: are connected to already occupied habitats and have them play

845
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 2: bumper pool as they recolonize. But the fact is that

846
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 2: the habitat in orth to go to for sage grouse

847
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 2: is so degraded that it would take a lot of

848
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 2: work to turn that habitat around and grow a bunch

849
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 2: of new sagebrush habitat before you could then hope to

850
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 2: bring sage grouse back.

851
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, because how easy is it to grow a sage brush?

852
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's and I don't know if that hard, but

853
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:01,760
Speaker 2: it takes decades, right, so the time is not convenient. Yeah,

854
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 2: that's the hard part. And then keeping that land set

855
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 2: aside for sage brush for decades so that you can

856
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 2: wait a couple of decades after that for the grouse

857
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 2: to get the memo and to show up. So it's

858
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 2: a it's a tough state of affairs. It's not like

859
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 2: putting a group of big horn sheep matt back in

860
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:24,839
Speaker 2: the mountain range. It does not like that at all. Yeah,

861
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 2: not that that's easy, but but.

862
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: There's imprinted learned behavior.

863
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 2: Specific to that habitat.

864
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:36,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, specific to that habitat, and a lot of

865
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: birds are going to die trying to figure out where

866
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: to go.

867
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, that's right.

868
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's tough. Habitat habitat, habitat gang that's right, ted,

869
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 1: So awesome to have you on if folks have questions

870
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 1: for Tad, Please let me know ask c a l

871
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 1: that's asked Cal at the meeteater dot com. We'll have

872
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 1: Ted back on to answer him, or I'll get your

873
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 1: pointed in the right direction, or we'll answer him right

874
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 1: here on this show. That's all I got for you

875
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 1: this week. Thank you so much for listening and Ted,

876
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 1: thanks again for coming on.

877
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 2: Thank you Cal. Thank you for your passion for Grasslands too.

878
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,800
Speaker 2: I don't know if people know that, Miquel, You've been a

879
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 2: real champion and you continue to be and I know

880
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 2: you'll you'll do more in the future. Thank you for everything.

881
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, buddy, As you know, I'm happy to be

882
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 1: out here doing my part. But all it is is

883
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,919
Speaker 1: my part. Doesn't matter how big the platform or how

884
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 1: loud you yell, it's never going to be one person

885
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: getting the stuff done.

886
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 2: So that's right.

887
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 1: Thanks again everybody. I'll talk to you next week.