WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 138 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:05.600 As media. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:08.639 to let you know this is a compilation episode. So 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.160 every episode of the week that just happened is here 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:16.119 in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:18.320 you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:20.800 If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:22.639 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:24.360 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:28.800 This is that could happen here. We're talking about the 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:33.839 God you Are presidential debate starring Donald Trump and Joe Biden, 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:36.599 which was by far the worst presidential debate I've ever 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:37.720 seen in my entire life. 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:42.120 There's no competition. There's no competition like I remember the 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:45.000 days when we laughed at George W. Bush fucking up 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:48.360 ed a debate. Would he would clean up with either 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:52.479 of these guys, he would be sashing across the floor. 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:57.240 You could drop Sarah Palin in here, Yeah, own them. 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:00.880 Sarah Palin comes out of this looking like Bob fucking Hope. 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:04.440 So I'm Garrison Davis. I'm joined by Robert Evans and 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:08.080 James Stout. Let's uh, let's get into it. I guess 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:10.720 who do you think quote unquote won the debate. 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:14.080 I can tell you who fucking lost, Garrison, that's fucking 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:14.679 all of us. 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.720 I mean, I will, I'll get into this later. I'm 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:23.559 not sure it matters. But if the debate matters, Trump 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:26.600 won totally. If the debate matters, Trump one. 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:28.959 You know, that was my same thought as well. He 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:33.880 definitely was a much better debater and had much better 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:38.320 like political rhetoric. He he could form complete sentences, which 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:41.640 is something you couldnot say of Joe Biden. And that's 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:43.080 not that's not hyperbole. 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:46.960 I actually argue with the first two thirds of your 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:51.320 analysis there, because I don't think in argument terms, if 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:54.920 we're looking at this as a debate, Trump repeated, like 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:57.320 if I were scoring this the way you would competition. Trump 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:00.920 repeatedly followed Biden on these like Biden would goad him 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.000 with shit like what he said, what Trump said after 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:06.200 Charlott's Vieler all like Trump's height and him lying about it, 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:10.760 fucking golf scores, and Trump always took the bait. Why 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:13.200 I think Trump won is that this is not going 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:16.520 to get consumed as a debate. People aren't going to 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:18.360 look at this and like, look at the whole sweep 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.399 of how they both sure, which Biden would still very 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:24.400 likely lose, but it's less clear. This is going to 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:27.360 get cut up a million ways on TikTok, and Trump's 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:29.960 just got a lot more AMMO out of this fucker. Yeah. 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:32.040 The very first thing I noticed is that both of 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:35.760 them looked barely awake as soon as he went on screen. 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:39.840 And so I did get a debate, Bengo, I almost 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:43.000 got two. I almost got three. I was very proud 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:45.720 of that. I guess I don't know, we can we 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:47.560 can go over some of some of what some of 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.200 what they talked about, because yeah, why. 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:52.280 Not do you want to hate do you want to 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:54.400 hate Jill Biden's review? Just just get that out of the 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:55.040 way real quick. 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:59.480 Yeah, did he get Jill? Give it Jill or judge Jill? 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:03.280 Don't Jill Biden? Such a great job. You answered every 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:07.959 question fantastic, that's amazing stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he did 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:09.920 answered him coherently. Not so much. 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:14.880 We had We had an inject bleach reference from Biden 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:15.799 very early on. 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.560 And that was that was one of his better ploys. Unfortunately, 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:24.880 he followed it up by mumbling incoherently for like forty seconds. Yeah, yes, 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.320 but I was glad to hear it dropped. Yeah, he 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:29.080 was well prepd. 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:33.600 He just did not he executed Peok here's what I'll say. 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:35.800 I've said this about Joe for a while. If you 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:38.200 were looking at this man, not as the president, but 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.200 as like a relative, you would say, well, he's doing 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:44.240 you know, uncle Joe's doing okay for eighty two. You know, 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:48.240 like he's so most he's eighty six if he'll be 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:50.120 eighty six if he does a second term at the 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.680 end of it. But like if he were a regular person, 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:56.000 you would say, uncle Joe's doing okay for eighty two. 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.720 Maybe we should take the keys, you know, maybe doesn't 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:00.920 he that he doesn't need to be in a home, 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:02.800 you know, that would not be the right call at 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:05.480 this moment, But maybe he shouldn't have He shouldn't be driving, 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:05.840 you know. 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:06.800 Yeah. 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:10.120 So one of the smart things I think Trump did 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.360 very early on is that he attacked the vaccine mandate 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.520 but not the vaccine. Yeah, that was that was one 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:18.080 of the more subtle moves that he did that I 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:19.400 think he pulled off very well. 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:20.920 Yeah, Joe just gave it up. 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:22.800 Yeah, one of the one of the record trends with 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:26.000 Trump is that he really loved to call the United 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:29.520 States a third world nation and say we are now 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:33.279 an uncivilized nation. That was That was like one of 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.240 the many things Trump kept going back to because he 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:37.480 Trump really did just have like five things he just 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:39.880 kept talking about over and over and over again. He 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:44.000 mostly ignored the actual questions from moderators. The moderators themselves 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:47.280 did a really bad job both all the questions they 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.160 had and also like actually controlling controlling the candidates and 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:52.560 keep and keeping them on topic. But in general, I 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:54.800 think the questions that they did were just kind of bizarre. 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:58.880 Thirdal nation was a very common refrain from Trump. 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.320 And one thing that like Trump, Trump did badly more 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:04.599 than Biden or like you can see how Biden's team 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:06.799 prepped him on it and then he screwed the pooch 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.400 on it. But like Biden would say these things that 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:12.920 he knew would trigger Trump, like his weight and his height. Right. Yeah, 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:15.440 the very good people on both sides and Trump completely 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:16.440 felt for that hootline thing. 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:20.360 You can tell Trump has been obsessing over the little 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.960 things that people say about like how he treated handled 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:26.320 stuff like the alt right and whatnot, like he's very 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:28.440 angry about some of that, which is interesting to me 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:31.200 because it wasn't the smart move. The smart move was like, 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:36.520 as Gary noted, Trump very I think intelligently pivoted on 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.400 the on the vaccine issue to like still being able 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:42.039 to take credit for it with some audiences, while also 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:45.040 making it clear that his issue was the mandates. Whenever 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.360 Trump was on the economy, I think, even though I 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:51.760 don't agree that he was the better president for the economy, 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:55.799 I think that he performed strongly on stage. He spent 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:57.920 a lot of time in the weeds. If we're gonna 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:01.200 use golf metaphors, he kept like bocking shit into the 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:03.480 sand dunes and having to like. 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:06.719 Thank you for raising golf from it, it's you're. 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.799 Welcome, You're welcome. Because this had the longest golf digression 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:11.359 of any presidential event of everything, he. 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:15.240 Had like a two minute argument over whether they could 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.159 play golf against each other and who would. 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:19.560 Win and whose handicap was what in the eighties. 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:21.960 What I saw in this is you've got two men 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:25.040 who are not at are past their prime. And the 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:28.599 thing the reason why this in large part went Trump's way, 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.279 is that Biden has never been a good public speaker. 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:33.880 It has never been his strength. He has a speech impediment, 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:36.839 right that he worked and got over much of his career. 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.000 But when you are older, you have less control over everything, 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:41.719 and we can see it coming back. Right. There's no 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:43.880 there ought not be any shame in that. But also 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:45.719 it does affect the way people think. This is a 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.400 horrible country full of terrible people. People do not forgive 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:52.000 a speech impediment. Right. But more to the point, the 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.360 thing that Biden is showing his age in most all, 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:57.800 as we all do. It's the shit that we're bad at. 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.200 We get a lot worse at, right, And you can 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.680 kind of hide how much you've aged when you're doing 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:06.280 something that is clearly your talent. You know, my grandpa 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:10.200 near the you know, late, fairly late in his Parkinson's journey, 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.400 could still like gut and clean and catch a fish 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.119 really well. It wasn't until pretty advanced that he lost 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:18.720 that ability. And it was almost like you could see 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:20.960 some of that skill return to him. And like Trump 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.280 is a talker, Trump is a charismatic guy. He is 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.440 good at working a crowd. You can tell he is 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:30.680 falling off in his inability to the fact that he 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:33.760 keeps falling for all of these very obvious traps. Joe 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.080 Bile and he spent a lot of time in the weeds, 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.240 but he still sounds a lot stronger. And this is 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:43.600 entirely a contest of who can look best on camera, right, 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.520 and yeah, it's of course Trump's going to win. 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:51.400 I think the first really big topic that they started 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:53.960 to argue back and forth on was abortion. It started 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:57.160 by Trump saying that he is pro the abortion pill, 0:07:57.160 --> 0:07:59.200 and he's pro the Supreme Court's recent rule leg which 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:01.480 he kind of mischaracter but that's still he did anything 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.880 coming from Trump saying that he's he's okay with the 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:06.120 with the abortion pill. 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:10.000 He even brought up being okay with a nine month 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:12.040 abortion if it's for the life of the mother, which 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:13.160 was interesting to me. 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.480 But then they spent a long time arguing over whether 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.280 Roe v. Wade means that you can kill babies after. 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:23.120 Exactly yes, right birth, And that was that was a 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:26.760 that was an interesting I don't think that that interaction. 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:28.360 I don't know how much it's gonna matter, but it 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:30.720 didn't come off well for Trump because. 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:33.240 He he didn't come off well for Trump. That was 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:34.480 I think this is one of the few things he 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:37.640 did not do well in of course, you know, Biden 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:41.480 has done very little to secure reproductive rights as as 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:44.040 the current president. We all we all know this, but 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:46.000 this did not come off well for Trump. They were 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.680 basically just arguing back and forth over whether Biden wants 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:51.240 to kill baby's post birth, which is just a ridiculous 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:52.880 thing to to argue. 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:55.000 It was a shameful chain of arguments. 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:55.200 Right. 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:59.320 George Bush would have insinuated the same thing but done 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:01.520 it in a way, but that left everyone feeling less 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.080 gross and that's why he did so many terrible things. 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:06.880 It's just interesting that we've stripped so much of the 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.480 shellac off of it and now they are just because 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:13.240 in George W. Bush's day, we were still the Republicans 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:17.000 were still calling Democrats baby killers. There was just it's 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:19.400 interesting how much of the sheen is gone. Maybe a 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:23.760 little more class, Yeah, yeah, maybe it's not all bad 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:27.280 that we're not pretending anymore, right Like, there's no pretending 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:31.600 on this stage. Both men are clearly not doing well. 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:34.880 The system itself is not pretending, right Like, we just 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.160 got a couple of fucking egyots and what we do and' 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:39.480 stile one of them like something I. 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.320 Will never pretend to do is dislike our products and 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:44.520 services that support this podcast. I love them. I would 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:46.960 never pretend otherwise. So go listen to these ads. 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:02.160 Okay we are back, Yeah, yeah, still here we are. 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:04.840 I don't know. I feel good. I feel good about 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:09.440 America today. You think so, you think you know. It's 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:11.240 not that we're heading in the right direction. We've never 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:13.920 been heading in a very good direction. The driver has 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:18.080 always been drunk right. And finally, forty five minutes into 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:20.720 the drive, he just was like, look, man, I'm not 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:22.840 doing great right now, and I'm not going to get 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:26.880 this car back home unless you bust open the center 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.600 console where I keep a handle of bourbon. And you're 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.400 scared of the driver because he has a gun and 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:35.160 you don't know what he'll do with it. You're not 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:37.640 even sure if he can really see you in anyway. 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:39.360 That's how it feels to watch the selection. 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:44.959 Let's talk about immigration, one of the other main main 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:46.600 topics in this debate. 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.040 And that went bad for Biden. 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:52.120 Trump had a fantastic line saying border patrol endorsed me 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:55.000 for president, but I won't say that, which. 0:10:54.760 --> 0:11:00.199 Is amazing stuff. They both claimed Border Patrol endorsed them too. 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:03.360 Yeah, the body Patrol itself doesn't make endorsements, right, but 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:05.480 the Bond and Patrol Union, which is worth the worst 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:08.720 accounts on Twitter, did clarify that they endorsed Trump. 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.000 So there was a lot of bad stuff with abortion. 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:14.199 I mean, James, did you do any thoughts overall and 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:16.400 the abortion discourse. 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:20.560 The debate, the immigration discourse. Yes, wow, there was a 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:24.320 real Biden moment for you. Garrett Garrison, Yeah, Garrison Davis 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:26.960 elderly members of podcast. 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.120 Somebody get Garrison as pet pills? 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:32.240 Oh god, I wish. 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:35.120 Yeah, they're they're fog in the air and Atlanta tonight. 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:41.319 All right, the discourse over abord Jesus Christ. 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:44.839 They're bringing abortions with him, Garrison, there's okay, there's a. 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:49.320 Pretty great onion headline report. Oh they're about to talk 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:50.280 about black people. 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:55.000 Oh god, yeah, yeah. Another fine moment of this debate, 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:59.440 the fucking black job sing yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, immigration 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:02.120 and talking immigration shit right, just real quick, Donald Trump 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:05.520 kept throwing out this eighteen million number. Fuck knows where 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:11.080 that comes from. Yeah, that was just all the numbers, 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.760 like fully, from the rectum to the debate stage. But 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.960 look by a patrol of reported nine point six encounters, 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:20.280 I've beaten this horse to death. But encounter does not 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:22.840 represent a unique individual. Right, people go and come back 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:26.360 when they get deported back, very common, both of them, 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:28.480 like like, the way I actually want to focus on 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:30.840 is the way that Jake Tappa framed that question, because 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:34.640 it was fucking atrocious, right, like it. He didn't frame 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:36.959 it in a way in which either of them, if 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:40.280 they had wanted to, could offer a reasonable compassionate stance 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.000 and immigration. Right, it was positive as a terrible thing. 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:45.840 And yeah, you're foxy in it. And next time you 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:46.960 come dming me asking me. 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:51.520 The scummy scummy shit, Yeah, it was for the For 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:54.160 the record, Jake Tapper should be hit in the head 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:56.560 with a with a I don't know truck or something. 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:00.760 But podcaster Robert Evans threatens violence against see it at 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:02.240 anchor Jake Tire. 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.080 In a way he supported violence against me, So I 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:06.520 think I have that right with Jade. 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:07.520 That is true. 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.760 He's he's a dog shit journalist. And this was the 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:14.240 worst moderated debate because Trump is just lying. Everything he 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:16.880 says is absolutely full of shit. And half of the 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:18.840 shit that Biden says it's hard to tell what he 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:21.560 was even trying to say, and there was no attempt 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:25.720 to make it they they treated this like Werner Herzog 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.920 would have filmed it, right, But they're too Herzog would 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:30.920 have done this way because like, my job is not 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:34.439 to interfere here. My job is to let this unfold, right, 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:38.040 I don't need now. Herzog would interfere if that would 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.120 have made it a better story, but he loves collapse artists. 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:42.800 These people are journalists. 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:46.320 Yeah, these people are journalists. And your job was to 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.880 attempt to both hold them accountable to some standard of 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:53.640 reality and also to attempt to present this in a 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:57.840 way that's intelligible, right, and you failed on both accounts. 0:13:57.880 --> 0:13:59.640 You did bad jobs as journalists. 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.400 I think for me, the the best and worst line 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:06.600 of the debate in terms of like, oh wow, we're 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:10.800 really in it is is Trump saying that migrants are 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:15.439 taking black jobs, which is one of the most loaded 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.080 statements I've ever heard, because, for one, you know, it's 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.080 weird on like the migrant thing like that, that's really 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:22.520 your main compact jobs. 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.160 What is a black job? 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:27.480 What do you think he's applying there? 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.120 I think we know what he's there. 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.320 He's implying farm work. He's talking about like working in 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:36.440 the fields. 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:39.280 Low skilled jobs is what he is talking about. Yes, 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:41.880 that's how he sees this. But what I where I 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:46.360 think that came from. My suspicion is that because the 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:50.680 Trump campaign is still consistently extremely weak with black voters, right, 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.440 they've actually made a lot of inroads with Hispanic voters. 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:57.720 Trump in this debate, Yeah, they are still based on 0:14:57.760 --> 0:14:59.560 all of the polling I've seen, they're about as bad 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:01.800 with black voters as they weren't twenty twenty. That really 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:03.560 has not moved what you have seen on that is 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:05.400 not really based in much of the way of evidence, 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:07.840 at least in terms of what polling can show us. 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:10.560 They know this is a weakness, and it's one that 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:14.080 they see as a significant strategic weakness. So at some 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:17.760 point Trump had a meeting with his campaign prep staff 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.320 and one of the things they wrote on a billboard 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:22.960 is they were spitballing ideas to get black voters was 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:27.200 migrants taking black jobs question mark, And that stayed in 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.120 Trump's head totally. They had a million better ways to 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.360 phrase it, but when the moment came up, That's how 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:33.000 he fucking ran. 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:38.200 That is no guarantee you exactly what happened. It just yes, totally. 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:43.640 It also displays a somehow extremely anti immigrant and extremely 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:48.480 racist at all the same time coming remarkable directions. It's 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:53.480 quite something. One another great line was human trafficking in women. 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.400 Another wonderus human trafficking in women. 0:15:57.440 --> 0:15:59.760 I'm glad. I'm glad that women do make the human 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:04.720 life though, Like that feels like progress, Garrison, we did it, Joe. 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:08.320 Anything else on the immigration front, I mean, it was 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:10.320 as bad as we would expect. Honestly, I thought that 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.720 bad would try to go further on the right on 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:18.000 immigration than what he ended up doing. Not saying he 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.120 did well on immigration, but I expected I expected Biden 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:22.920 to kind of to kind of push a little a 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:23.640 little bit more. 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.880 He's not comfortable with it, clearly because he made He 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:30.960 got so much of his win on highlighting the obvious 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:36.080 inhumanity of Trump's border policy, and he obviously has adopted 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:38.400 a policy that's very similar. 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:40.880 Yeah, I mean he tried to hit him on the 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.000 separation of families. Families are still fucking separated, Like I've 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:45.480 literally seen that this week. 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.120 Well, I just don't think he's I don't think he's 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:51.880 comfortable fighting Trump on this because I don't really think 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:55.760 he has a great feeling about their where they're separate 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.800 on the matter, right, So he's not comfortable with that 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:01.640 line of argument the way he is. Like Biden's best 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:05.160 moment was attacking him for like being shitty to dead soldiers, 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:09.000 and I was shocked that Trump followed him on that. 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:13.520 Fucking They talked about that so long. It was a huge. 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:15.000 It was as big as the economy. 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:18.040 They talked about like veterans for so long, and just 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:21.720 like weird circles that that was an interesting one. A 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.159 few other just fun lines that were thrown in, uh 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:28.520 Biden calling them the Paris piece accords, very cool, funny stuff. 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.359 Biden's saying that Trump has the mortals of an alley cat. 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:33.320 That's a great line. 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:34.600 That was a good line. 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:35.160 That's great. 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:37.920 That was That was again he this was number one. 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:40.720 He didn't slur any of us where I'm not saying 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:42.919 that to be shitty, but it affects his performance. He 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.560 was very clear in the lean up of like these 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:49.160 are the he's a bad person, which he is. That's 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:53.080 a strong thing to hit him on. And I hope again, 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.399 we'll talk more about like will this matter? But I 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:59.760 hope strategically what the DIMS realizes that like that is 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:02.720 a to keep hitting him on because it actually matters 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:05.439 in terms of like how voters think of the guys. 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:07.879 It's it's a way to actually hurt Trump because he 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:09.720 is a really obviously shitty person. 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:12.359 One other thing Trump did in terms of you know, 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:15.480 this whole black jobs thing, is Trump did hammer Biden 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:16.639 on super predators. 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:18.840 Yeah, that was interesting to say. 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:21.000 I feel like Trump actually did a did an okay 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:23.720 job there. And it's not me endorsing Trump's behavior, but 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:25.720 this is this is he like that was that was 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:26.720 a good move for him? 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:30.080 No, an interesting one too. I was kind of surprised 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:34.440 that he he went for it because that's like, yeah, 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:35.280 that was surprising. 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:40.200 Do you know what isn't surprising, Robert. 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:41.760 How much we love the sponsors of this podcast? Who 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:44.880 are you know? I often think of the president as 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.120 like a father, you know, or like my father during 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:50.880 different times. Right, Trump is like my father that time 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:53.760 he brought a home the movie Event Horizon, thinking it 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:57.440 would be like a fun little science fiction rop and 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:02.399 Biden is like my dad when he's snuck in the 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:05.360 South Park movie, but he had not gotten the right 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:08.000 language version, so we couldn't actually watch it. 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:08.520 Right. 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:12.120 They're all they're different eras of everyone's dad. I don't 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:26.120 know these sponsors are our father. Anyway, We're back. 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:29.520 So one thing that I'm looking forward to is that 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:32.440 if Trump does get elected, he will settle the Ukraine 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:35.760 War as president elect. So that's great news for all 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.399 of us. I'm excited before he's even inaugurated. 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:46.280 Ukraine down that was really the Yeah, it's interesting to 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:49.399 see him kind of adopt the whole Ukraine has cooked. 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:53.240 They've lost all of their young men line. That's not 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:57.840 a great thing to hear in terms of like it's 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:02.280 exactly what Putin wants is eactly what Russia wants. It's 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:06.800 not accurate to like what we've actually seen on the ground, 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:11.000 which is another Russian defensive completely stall out because despite 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:14.320 what was supposed to be like an overwhelming advantage in 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.320 theater and artillery. But I don't think it matters. I 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:19.399 don't think that shit's gonna move the election. At the 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.720 end of the day. I could bitch about like US 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:25.280 policy in Eastern Europe, but nobody votes based on that. 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:29.280 I do, but nobody else does, right, like, and I 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:32.280 barely do. Like it's it's just not It's not a 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:35.800 needle mover in the same way that fucking inflation or 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:38.399 the economy or crime or the border is. 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:40.760 I mean, Trump was harping on it because he's just 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:43.359 trying to blame all of these new conflicts on Biden, 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:45.439 being like, all these things happened since Biden was president 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:48.840 and I was president. This wouldn't have happened, you know, magically, right, 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:51.119 And that's that's a very easy move for Trump, is 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:52.520 to bring up all of the bad things that have 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.240 happened since Biden's took office and say this is Biden's fault. 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:57.360 We have that with Ukraine, they talked they talked about 0:20:57.440 --> 0:20:59.800 Ukraine for like a really it was. 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:02.200 A shocking amount of the debate. 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:04.480 A decent a decent amount of the time, like way 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.160 way longer than they talked about Israel and Palestine, which 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:08.359 is kind of surprising to me. 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:08.600 Now. 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:10.320 I can understand how both them would want to just 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:14.440 avoid talking about that, but I'm surprised, like the moderators 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:15.320 like let that happen. 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:19.479 I guess I don't think, I mean, the moderators let 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:22.680 everything happen. I think I put who I am surprised 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:27.800 about was Trump because he kept going back to Ukraine, 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:31.800 which is not a strong issue for him. Now Israel 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:35.600 Palestine really isn't either. Most Americans don't like what Israel 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:39.080 is doing. There's even a lot of like question about 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:41.440 that on the Republican side. So his choices are either 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:46.320 be all fucking genocide about it and alienate a lot 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:49.080 of moderates, or kind of hedge it and just try 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:51.760 to attack Biden for his performance, which is what he did, which. 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:52.560 Is which is which is what he did. 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:55.119 Yeah, he didn't do much of it compared to getting 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:58.879 drawn again and again into arguments over NATO. I was 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:02.840 really surprised that he kept following Joe back to fucking NATO. 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:03.800 It was really weird. 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:07.280 Yeah, there was a bizarre choice for him, like when 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:11.240 he had a million other places. His Trump's response on 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:12.880 Palestine I want to talk about. 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:15.119 Oh, that was bleak. Absolutely, that was one of the 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:17.400 worst moments in this country's entire history. 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:19.800 Yeah, that already said a new love for me. 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:22.920 And we've got like what eight seven to eight genocide, 0:22:23.040 --> 0:22:24.720 So you know, pretty bad moment. 0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:28.440 Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's a country built on genocide. That 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:31.359 that one, That one was pretty pretty bad. 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:32.399 Yeah. 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:36.200 So basically Trump was harping on Biden for not being 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:41.720 pro genocide enough and said something that I really never 0:22:41.760 --> 0:22:44.560 I did not see coming. He said that that Biden 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:48.440 has become like a Palestinian, A bad Palestinian. 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:55.120 Yeah, a bad Palestinian because he doesn't do bad enough things. 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:57.159 What was that? What was the exact line that followed that? 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:01.320 So Trump says, quote, he's become like a Palestinian, but 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:04.720 a bad Palestinian because they don't like him very much. 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:08.280 There you go, thank you. We needed the whole thought. 0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:10.320 He's a weak one. 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:14.280 Yeah, the Palestinians don't like him, and I hate the Palestinians, 0:23:14.560 --> 0:23:16.680 but you should be liked by your own pe. I'm 0:23:16.720 --> 0:23:18.440 trying to put together the logic here. 0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:19.720 It was. 0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:20.520 It was really bad. 0:23:20.560 --> 0:23:24.359 But like basically using Palestinian as an insult to Biden, 0:23:24.440 --> 0:23:26.880 you know that's not great. Trump also had a lie 0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:33.080 how quote the Palestinians and everyone are rioting right now. Yeah, 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:37.240 I assume who was I think he's referring to the 0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:41.200 campus protests, just calling everyone at those protests Palestinians, which 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:43.080 is a really interesting like political move. 0:23:42.920 --> 0:23:46.280 Actually, yeah, and a dangerous one potentially. 0:23:47.240 --> 0:23:47.880 Absolutely. 0:23:48.359 --> 0:23:52.399 Yeah, we knock on wood whenever we may have wood. 0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:56.600 That's a good Trump line. That's a good Trump line. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:23:56.640 --> 0:23:59.240 And James, James was giving him ship for that earlier. 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:02.080 But this is the this is you and your Ivory tower. 0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:04.240 A lot of people don't have wood. You know, Ben 0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:06.240 Shapiro could only afford one board. 0:24:06.320 --> 0:24:09.880 That's true, Yeah, ben cheron wood once. Yeah, that's exactly right. 0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:12.399 You know, small amount of wood at that he was 0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:13.720 lucky enough to find it. 0:24:13.920 --> 0:24:14.640 We can't all. 0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:17.080 He put his wood in a little bag. 0:24:17.520 --> 0:24:19.560 So this was a this was a bit on healthcare, 0:24:19.640 --> 0:24:20.200 right or. 0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:23.520 Garrison. It did well. 0:24:23.560 --> 0:24:25.960 He was yeah, he was talking about being healthy and 0:24:26.000 --> 0:24:28.480 he was like, yeah, I'm still healthy. You know, knock 0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:30.280 on wood. We all knock on wood where we find 0:24:30.320 --> 0:24:32.239 wood or something like that. But he was being we 0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:35.399 have wood. He was kind of trying to Actually this 0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:37.479 may be a little bit of like a fuck up 0:24:37.480 --> 0:24:40.240 by him because he was hitting Biden pretty successfully in 0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:43.800 Biden's age, but then he dropped a line so baffling 0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:46.480 that it was like it focused where I was like, 0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:47.880 what do you mean by this? 0:24:48.560 --> 0:24:52.760 They were talking about. Yeah, they're talking about being in 0:24:52.800 --> 0:24:54.480 good health. And that's and that's where they got into 0:24:54.640 --> 0:24:58.720 the little golf argument and wait, who would who would? 0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:01.480 Who would play golf better? And yeah, if if Trump 0:25:01.480 --> 0:25:04.760 could carry his own golf clubs. A really good line 0:25:04.880 --> 0:25:07.119 was we bought a certain dog. 0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:11.639 Yeah, yeah, that was we bought a certain dog. You 0:25:11.640 --> 0:25:13.439 wouldn't believe it, a. 0:25:14.000 --> 0:25:18.600 Dog that can sniff. And then he just kept talking 0:25:18.640 --> 0:25:20.480 about machines that can sniff. 0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:22.960 Thin Why it's talking about these these machines that they 0:25:22.960 --> 0:25:24.880 have to suppose to detect fens on the border, which 0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:27.119 they've spent millions of dollars on. But they've been doing 0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:29.080 this since a Trump administration, Like this is not a 0:25:29.080 --> 0:25:32.240 new thing. It was in his border bill. But there's 0:25:32.240 --> 0:25:34.879 nothing compared to we we bought a certain dog. 0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:39.959 Oh god, have you guys seen the dark Brandon secret sauce? 0:25:40.800 --> 0:25:43.840 No Robert share this immediately? 0:25:44.160 --> 0:25:47.240 Yeah, yeah, I've just shed he's lost Jeff tedrig which. 0:25:47.119 --> 0:25:50.920 Is there's a there's a post that Joe made right 0:25:50.960 --> 0:25:53.080 before the debate would have started that I'm just gonna 0:25:53.119 --> 0:25:55.240 send it to the chat while I describe it to 0:25:55.280 --> 0:25:58.240 the listener. It's Joe with like a can in his 0:25:58.320 --> 0:26:08.080 hand and it's a cantlash home God damage. I'm on 0:26:08.200 --> 0:26:12.520 the Joe Biden water. No, so he's got He's got 0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:14.600 a can of this. It's like a water in a 0:26:14.640 --> 0:26:17.960 beer can, and it's called zero Malarkey Biden, and it's 0:26:18.000 --> 0:26:21.600 got a dark branded image with a laser eyes. Get real, Jack, 0:26:21.680 --> 0:26:25.720 it's just water. And then Biden's actual tak says, I 0:26:25.760 --> 0:26:28.280 don't know what they have got these performance and answers, 0:26:28.520 --> 0:26:31.840 but I'm feeling pretty jacked up. Trying for yourself, folks. 0:26:32.200 --> 0:26:35.639 And for four dollars and sixty cents you can get 0:26:35.920 --> 0:26:39.879 a looks like one can of Biden water. The se 0:26:40.520 --> 0:26:42.800 I'm on the website now the secret to a good 0:26:42.800 --> 0:26:47.360 debate performance staying hydrated. The same performance and answers Joe 0:26:47.359 --> 0:26:49.320 Biden took before going on stage. 0:26:49.960 --> 0:26:53.240 We need to get just get a company cost on this, guys. 0:26:53.280 --> 0:26:56.080 I'm gonna get wrecked because he looked fucked up. 0:26:56.160 --> 0:26:58.600 I've got some experience with performance, you know, hunting to 0:26:58.760 --> 0:27:01.040 device drug users in my career. 0:27:01.880 --> 0:27:05.800 This is if any I miss having a good GHB hookup, 0:27:06.000 --> 0:27:09.600 you know, this would be that I feel like that 0:27:09.600 --> 0:27:11.800 would get me on Joe's level, right. 0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:15.240 I think only a brain injury could get you on 0:27:15.320 --> 0:27:16.199 Joe's level right now. 0:27:17.200 --> 0:27:18.400 That's why I brought up GHB. 0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:20.760 The last topic I want to discuss in terms of 0:27:20.800 --> 0:27:23.439 what was talked about at the debate is January sixth, 0:27:23.720 --> 0:27:27.640 and Trump kind of tried to avoid the question over 0:27:27.680 --> 0:27:30.200 whether he would concede the election, saying that he would 0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:32.040 only if it was a fair election. 0:27:32.680 --> 0:27:34.040 Only if it was a fair election. 0:27:34.880 --> 0:27:39.000 But Trump's line on January sixth, let me tell you 0:27:39.000 --> 0:27:42.520 about January sixth. We had great borders on January. 0:27:42.000 --> 0:27:44.520 Sixth, oh, that whole speed. 0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:46.679 We had a great economy on January sixth. 0:27:47.440 --> 0:27:49.640 It is very funny. I should post some pictures I took. 0:27:49.680 --> 0:27:51.399 I took them just after January sixth. I took in 0:27:51.440 --> 0:27:53.359 the week of Biden's election of the border, well, just 0:27:53.400 --> 0:27:56.520 stopping in random places, like where they got to a 0:27:56.560 --> 0:27:58.240 certain level of construction and just stopped. 0:27:58.240 --> 0:27:58.320 Like. 0:27:58.400 --> 0:28:02.760 We found Trump's direction here kind of interesting. He tried 0:28:02.800 --> 0:28:05.399 to kind of really avoid talking about his own opinions 0:28:05.720 --> 0:28:09.000 on the actual Capital insurrection. His very first reaction was 0:28:09.040 --> 0:28:10.639 to say, no, well, the rest of the country was 0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:12.760 doing so much better because I was the president. The 0:28:12.800 --> 0:28:15.119 moderators kind of forced him to talk a little bit 0:28:15.119 --> 0:28:17.159 about it, but he really avoided it as much as 0:28:17.160 --> 0:28:18.960 he could, which is, you know, he doesn't want to 0:28:18.960 --> 0:28:21.680 alienate his base. He also doesn't want to like, uh, 0:28:21.760 --> 0:28:24.160 you know, be too pro J six and scare away 0:28:24.280 --> 0:28:27.640 like independence, so he was really skirting that line. It's 0:28:27.680 --> 0:28:30.800 just weird because moderators were so much stronger on this 0:28:30.920 --> 0:28:35.200 question during the debate primaries for the GOP, Yeah, which 0:28:35.200 --> 0:28:37.800 which Trump wasn't even present for. They really harped on 0:28:37.840 --> 0:28:40.640 this here and on this they did not care at all. 0:28:40.800 --> 0:28:44.240 They really they really did not push pushed Trump on 0:28:44.240 --> 0:28:47.360 on J six whatsoever. And it was it was kind 0:28:47.360 --> 0:28:47.920 of pathetic. 0:28:48.840 --> 0:28:50.440 Yep, yeah, no, no, it was. 0:28:50.520 --> 0:28:50.760 It was. 0:28:50.800 --> 0:28:54.560 It was terrible, Like the moderators could well, they didn't 0:28:54.560 --> 0:28:56.320 moderate at all. They just asked some questions and then 0:28:56.400 --> 0:28:57.160 let it fucking rip. 0:28:57.920 --> 0:29:00.440 I think let's just move on to finally talking like 0:29:00.480 --> 0:29:03.600 the debate in general. I think the GOP will probably 0:29:03.600 --> 0:29:05.280 be pretty happy with Trump's performance here. 0:29:05.640 --> 0:29:07.160 Yeah, he did what he needed to. 0:29:07.280 --> 0:29:09.560 They're gonna call us a dub. I think the Democrats 0:29:09.560 --> 0:29:12.360 are probably kind of scrambling right now trying to figure 0:29:12.360 --> 0:29:13.560 out what the next move is. 0:29:13.760 --> 0:29:17.480 I hope it's possible for someone to be like we 0:29:17.600 --> 0:29:22.480 got time. Throw Pritzkern, throw fucking wit Marin. You know 0:29:22.640 --> 0:29:26.840 either of them, right I honestly you know you know Robert. 0:29:27.720 --> 0:29:29.680 This is this is how Birdie can still win. 0:29:31.360 --> 0:29:35.600 I know he's too fucking old. I don't. I will 0:29:35.640 --> 0:29:38.960 say I think he probably based on the last time 0:29:39.040 --> 0:29:41.160 I saw him speak, I think he probably would have 0:29:41.200 --> 0:29:42.800 done better than Joe did in this. But not if 0:29:42.800 --> 0:29:45.120 he had a cold, right, Like, that's the thing. I 0:29:45.160 --> 0:29:47.560 believe Joe has a cold and that that's why he 0:29:47.640 --> 0:29:50.600 sounded like shit. But you know what, A strong young 0:29:50.680 --> 0:29:53.200 person with a cold could pull it together for an 0:29:53.240 --> 0:29:58.240 hour he write down. That's he could lock down. This 0:29:58.320 --> 0:30:01.880 is we shouldn't have to plane like it's not. I 0:30:01.880 --> 0:30:04.640 don't give a shit. Old people shouldn't be the fucking president. 0:30:04.840 --> 0:30:07.880 They shouldn't old people should not be the fucking president. 0:30:08.400 --> 0:30:10.880 Past the past the point at which I feel like 0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:13.720 if somebody, like if I was if we were helping 0:30:13.720 --> 0:30:16.000 you move and I was like carrying something heavy and 0:30:16.040 --> 0:30:17.880 I turned around, I slapped you in the face with 0:30:17.920 --> 0:30:19.960 like a board or something or a piece of furniture. 0:30:20.240 --> 0:30:22.080 If I have to be worried that your skull is 0:30:22.120 --> 0:30:24.800 gonna crack, you shouldn't be the fucking president. You should 0:30:24.800 --> 0:30:27.320 be able to Like I should feel confident that you 0:30:27.320 --> 0:30:30.920 can jumpstart a car without blowing up my battery, you know, 0:30:31.400 --> 0:30:33.480 Like I don't feel that for either of these men. 0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:34.880 They both look unwell. 0:30:35.800 --> 0:30:38.080 Yeah, if you let these people go into supermarket, they 0:30:38.160 --> 0:30:39.440 would be lost. 0:30:40.080 --> 0:30:42.560 Yeah, it's it's not good. It's so. 0:30:44.120 --> 0:30:46.080 I know a lot of people make jokes about this, right, 0:30:46.280 --> 0:30:48.920 people love joking about how old they are and go here. 0:30:49.360 --> 0:30:51.320 I was shocked. 0:30:52.120 --> 0:30:55.320 I was shocked at how bad Biden did this debate. 0:30:55.600 --> 0:30:58.360 He looked so bad. He looked so bad. 0:30:58.440 --> 0:31:01.360 It was one of his worst public speaking outings. Horrible, 0:31:01.440 --> 0:31:03.360 like in a long time. 0:31:03.600 --> 0:31:08.160 Look like I yeah, I am not competent to diagnose shit, 0:31:08.680 --> 0:31:11.080 but I lived with my grandfather for the last ten 0:31:11.200 --> 0:31:15.520 years as he died of Parkinson's, and it's there's a 0:31:15.560 --> 0:31:18.480 shuffle you get to recognize, right, Like, I don't know 0:31:18.520 --> 0:31:20.760 if it's Parkinson's, but he's not a well old man. 0:31:21.000 --> 0:31:23.320 He's a sick old man, and he shouldn't be president. 0:31:23.840 --> 0:31:27.160 There is there is a reason I put candidate collapses 0:31:27.200 --> 0:31:29.760 on stage on my Bingo card, which we did not get, 0:31:29.800 --> 0:31:30.880 but we sure got close. 0:31:31.120 --> 0:31:33.360 Were got close, very close. 0:31:33.600 --> 0:31:36.600 I filled out almost all my Bingo card, it was 0:31:36.840 --> 0:31:39.360 and I did not pick easy ones too. You can 0:31:39.760 --> 0:31:41.680 you can check me on this. You can check you 0:31:41.720 --> 0:31:44.600 can check the card on Twitter. And I yeah, I was, 0:31:44.720 --> 0:31:48.080 I was h just I just felt really bad. 0:31:49.080 --> 0:31:52.280 I feel terrible. I wanted to ask half that debate, Gear, 0:31:52.440 --> 0:31:55.680 how do you feel about getting your citizenship? You jazzed, Well, 0:31:55.840 --> 0:31:57.800 this is a great this is a great, proud time, 0:31:58.200 --> 0:31:59.959 proud time to become an American. 0:32:00.200 --> 0:32:02.959 It is better than it's better than it's better than 0:32:02.960 --> 0:32:03.880 only having a green card. 0:32:04.080 --> 0:32:04.280 Yeah. 0:32:04.400 --> 0:32:07.320 True, I can tell you it's just someone who recently 0:32:07.360 --> 0:32:10.800 upgraded to American status. It is at least it's a 0:32:10.800 --> 0:32:14.360 little bit less concerning with a shit that Trump is saying. Yeah, 0:32:14.560 --> 0:32:15.920 and oh Biden. 0:32:16.680 --> 0:32:18.640 Well, any any final thoughts. 0:32:19.680 --> 0:32:22.720 I hope Gavin Newsom doesn't pull out a way to 0:32:22.760 --> 0:32:25.360 become the president. I don't want him to be the president. 0:32:26.000 --> 0:32:28.200 He is going to be the My prediction is he 0:32:28.200 --> 0:32:30.000 will be the twenty twenty eight nominee. 0:32:30.040 --> 0:32:33.000 He's a very good chance. Really hard, it's between the 0:32:33.440 --> 0:32:35.880 smart option based on where we stand now. For now 0:32:35.960 --> 0:32:38.520 war for twenty twenty eight is Pritzker. I think Whitmer 0:32:38.560 --> 0:32:41.240 would also be a great pick. Pritzker is really good 0:32:41.280 --> 0:32:44.560 with conservatives, and he's really good with conservatives without like 0:32:44.680 --> 0:32:49.600 folding completely on shit, whereas Whittmer has some weakness just 0:32:49.640 --> 0:32:52.920 because of how much time has been directed in attacking 0:32:52.960 --> 0:32:57.840 her over like the COVID twenty twenty shit. But either 0:32:57.880 --> 0:32:59.600 of them I think are strong candidates who are a 0:32:59.600 --> 0:33:01.880 lot better than Gavin Newsom. But you are right, he's 0:33:01.920 --> 0:33:04.320 going to be a strong candidate in twenty twenty eight. 0:33:04.920 --> 0:33:07.960 Well, I think that does it for me, at least 0:33:08.120 --> 0:33:09.640 here on it could happen here. 0:33:09.800 --> 0:33:13.600 Well, let's talk real briefly. Do we think that debate matters? 0:33:13.800 --> 0:33:16.120 Do Do we think that this is a thing that 0:33:16.280 --> 0:33:19.320 is going to turn an election? I think it can. 0:33:19.920 --> 0:33:21.640 Yes, I think it actually does. I think I think 0:33:21.640 --> 0:33:25.680 this could actually hurt some voter enthusiasm. I think people 0:33:25.760 --> 0:33:28.040 who are maybe looking at Biden and being like, yeah, 0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:30.600 probably if he keeps performing like this, people might just 0:33:30.600 --> 0:33:34.200 not vote for him. Not they probably maybe some of 0:33:34.280 --> 0:33:35.920 them might move over to Trump if they're like weird, 0:33:36.000 --> 0:33:38.560 like independence, Many of them just might not vote at all. 0:33:38.880 --> 0:33:41.320 Like I think if if Biden shows that he is 0:33:41.440 --> 0:33:45.080 just kind of a bumbling, in like incompetent old man, 0:33:45.520 --> 0:33:47.840 that's not gonna help an already kind of die your 0:33:47.880 --> 0:33:51.520 situation in terms of voter enthusiasm and possible voter turnout. 0:33:51.880 --> 0:33:54.080 So yeah, I think this actually does have a decent 0:33:54.240 --> 0:33:57.520 chance to hurt Biden. I don't think the debates will 0:33:57.560 --> 0:33:58.960 necessarily hurt Trump. 0:33:59.080 --> 0:33:59.320 I don't. 0:33:59.360 --> 0:34:02.400 I don't think on thiscessarily help Trump, like majorly, but 0:34:02.480 --> 0:34:04.960 I think they can subtract support away from Biden. 0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:08.759 See that's where and I don't I don't have a 0:34:08.800 --> 0:34:11.359 strong feeling on which way this is going to land either, 0:34:12.040 --> 0:34:15.960 you know, in either case. But some of the data 0:34:16.000 --> 0:34:19.760 we're seeing, particularly how well Trump performs relative to Biden 0:34:19.920 --> 0:34:24.040 on voters who are like not sure they're going to vote, right, 0:34:24.600 --> 0:34:26.600 I think this might be the first election where a 0:34:26.680 --> 0:34:30.319 higher turnout would be bad for Biden. But I also 0:34:30.480 --> 0:34:33.719 don't know. I think if any if this depresses I 0:34:33.719 --> 0:34:36.560 think you are right that if this depresses turnout, it's 0:34:36.600 --> 0:34:39.319 going to be worse. It's going to be Biden turnout, right, 0:34:39.360 --> 0:34:43.080 Although I mean, yeah, I just don't know, I feel 0:34:43.239 --> 0:34:46.239 like I don't want to do the easy thing would 0:34:46.239 --> 0:34:48.359 be to just like pick a lane and stay in it. 0:34:49.000 --> 0:34:51.240 And but I if it comes to my honest opinion, 0:34:51.280 --> 0:34:53.200 I still have no fucking clue how this is going 0:34:53.239 --> 0:34:55.720 to go. Because at no point has this been election 0:34:55.880 --> 0:34:58.040 been about do you think Joe Biden will be a 0:34:58.080 --> 0:35:01.480 good president? It's been about are you scared of Donald Trump? 0:35:01.719 --> 0:35:01.879 Right? 0:35:02.719 --> 0:35:05.000 I don't know that you're less scared. I think the 0:35:05.120 --> 0:35:07.840 worry for Biden is that people are now more scared 0:35:07.920 --> 0:35:10.200 that he is going to sleepwalk his way through a 0:35:10.280 --> 0:35:13.280 nuclear war as opposed to Trump at least being lucid 0:35:13.320 --> 0:35:16.000 for it. But I just don't know how that's going 0:35:16.040 --> 0:35:18.239 to actually shake out in the long run. 0:35:19.040 --> 0:35:20.120 God bless the USA. 0:35:20.960 --> 0:35:21.720 We're doing great. 0:35:22.600 --> 0:35:23.959 The conventions are going to be great. 0:35:24.719 --> 0:35:29.479 Yeah, stay tuned. He could be dead in a week. 0:35:31.400 --> 0:35:33.279 That really is like the wild car that. 0:35:33.239 --> 0:35:34.400 He could be dead tonight. 0:35:35.400 --> 0:35:37.879 Sur on the back of my brain all the time 0:35:38.040 --> 0:35:40.640 is like either one of these guys, especially Biden, could 0:35:40.680 --> 0:35:43.800 just like not exist tomorrow, Like he could he could 0:35:43.840 --> 0:35:46.080 just he could have He could get a little too 0:35:46.120 --> 0:35:47.640 stressed out and just kind of fall over. 0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:51.719 I mean, they could meaningfully make the argument tomorrow that like, 0:35:51.880 --> 0:35:54.040 that's been a significant decline in his health and he 0:35:54.120 --> 0:35:57.359 is not physically capable of being president because that's what 0:35:57.400 --> 0:35:59.920 we saw, Like, yeah, he doesn't. 0:35:59.640 --> 0:36:03.799 He if he was, I don't think they will. 0:36:04.560 --> 0:36:07.880 If the things, whatever things you consider worst, And for 0:36:07.960 --> 0:36:10.279 me with Biden, it's it's the border in Palestine. But 0:36:10.320 --> 0:36:13.239 if whatever things you consider worst about Biden weren't a thing, 0:36:13.920 --> 0:36:17.960 I would purely be like for this man's health and safety, 0:36:18.880 --> 0:36:22.160 get him out of this job, get him somewhere comfortable, 0:36:22.200 --> 0:36:27.960 let him enjoy his final years, don't make him do this. Yeah, anyway, 0:36:28.239 --> 0:36:29.719 it's good, It's not right. 0:36:30.760 --> 0:36:33.040 Fuck, part of me wants to read this Jeff ted 0:36:33.120 --> 0:36:35.040 Rich tweet to finish at a certain point. 0:36:35.080 --> 0:36:37.719 We're all complicit in elder abuse. But I guess they 0:36:37.840 --> 0:36:40.200 but we are for both of them. Yeah, like in 0:36:40.320 --> 0:36:43.760 some ways, in some ways, the American system is pushing 0:36:43.800 --> 0:36:47.400 these two sick old men towards a disastrous. 0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:49.080 That's also why I can't trust anything they see on 0:36:49.120 --> 0:36:51.920 social Security because they clearly have a vested interest. 0:36:52.440 --> 0:36:57.440 Uh, I can't see. I will say, we saw the 0:36:57.440 --> 0:37:00.319 president of Bolivia face down a coup yesterday. I think 0:37:00.520 --> 0:37:02.600 that that would not be possible for either of these 0:37:02.640 --> 0:37:03.399 men in. 0:37:06.440 --> 0:37:07.360 God. 0:37:08.120 --> 0:37:10.720 All right, I want to go cry and go to sleep. 0:37:10.800 --> 0:37:12.840 Oh yeah, it's good. That's good. 0:37:13.600 --> 0:37:17.680 Make some friends, guys. I'm gonna keep drinking. Yeah, good, 0:37:17.719 --> 0:37:18.960 little mutual aid. 0:37:19.280 --> 0:37:22.319 Yeah yeah, I'm gonna buy some of the Biden water 0:37:22.360 --> 0:37:36.680 with company money. 0:37:36.719 --> 0:37:40.560 Hello, Welcome to Eat Could Happen Here? We're doing it again. 0:37:40.920 --> 0:37:43.640 Several months back, I did an episode about corn, which 0:37:43.680 --> 0:37:46.120 I personally think was a huge hit. And I did 0:37:46.120 --> 0:37:48.880 that episode with the intention of making this food series 0:37:48.960 --> 0:37:52.239 Eat Could Happen Here into an actual series about food 0:37:52.640 --> 0:37:56.440 and not just a silly one off pun. In all honesty, though, 0:37:56.520 --> 0:37:59.720 I wrote and recorded that corn episode before October seventh, 0:37:59.760 --> 0:38:02.400 even though we ended up releasing it afterwards around Thanksgiving, 0:38:02.840 --> 0:38:06.120 because since October seventh there have been much more pressing 0:38:06.200 --> 0:38:09.200 things I need people to know about and learn about 0:38:09.200 --> 0:38:12.480 and keep talking about, namely the genocide happening in Palestine. 0:38:13.040 --> 0:38:15.359 And I will keep talking about it because we all 0:38:15.400 --> 0:38:17.480 have to keep talking about it. But I'm learning that 0:38:17.520 --> 0:38:19.600 in between my episodes where I talk about the most 0:38:19.600 --> 0:38:22.600 horrific things I've ever seen or read about or heard about, 0:38:22.680 --> 0:38:25.200 my brain needs to go into silly mode or else 0:38:25.280 --> 0:38:28.560 I will simply eject myself into outer space. And one 0:38:28.600 --> 0:38:30.920 of those silly things I've decided will be the how 0:38:30.960 --> 0:38:34.120 did we get here? Of food, which I personally find 0:38:34.200 --> 0:38:36.880 very fascinating, as is the history of all things is 0:38:37.000 --> 0:38:40.080 very fascinating, namely the history of how Palestine has been 0:38:40.080 --> 0:38:43.120 illegally occupied by a settler colony ethno state for nearly 0:38:43.160 --> 0:38:46.160 a century of genocide and ethnic cleansing, and how no 0:38:46.160 --> 0:38:48.200 one had any right to claim land as their own 0:38:48.200 --> 0:38:52.000 that was already inhabited by indigenous people. But I digress. 0:38:52.160 --> 0:38:54.520 We have other episodes about that, and we will continue 0:38:54.560 --> 0:38:57.239 to have episodes about it. But today we're going to 0:38:57.280 --> 0:39:00.920 be talking about something which, in comparison, is objectively kind 0:39:00.920 --> 0:39:03.840 of stupid. We're gonna be talking about sea Yur trends. 0:39:05.320 --> 0:39:07.960 I want to blame and or give credit to James 0:39:07.960 --> 0:39:11.840 Stout for suggesting this topic very enthusiastically when I mentioned 0:39:11.920 --> 0:39:14.719 wanting to do an episode about food, and because I 0:39:14.760 --> 0:39:17.160 personally don't believe I've ever had sea urchin, or maybe 0:39:17.200 --> 0:39:19.560 my brain has deleted that memory to make room for 0:39:20.120 --> 0:39:22.839 the worst things I've ever seen, I've brought James here 0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:26.400 today to walk along or dare I say, swim along 0:39:26.760 --> 0:39:29.840 with us on this Sea Urchin journey and to impart 0:39:29.880 --> 0:39:34.200 on us his never ending knowledge on basically everything. So welcome, James, 0:39:34.880 --> 0:39:35.480 Thank you Sheen. 0:39:35.640 --> 0:39:36.719 That's very nice and true. 0:39:38.280 --> 0:39:42.760 It's the truth. You suggested this very very enthusiastically. 0:39:43.360 --> 0:39:45.320 I did diggest enthusiastic. I was just throwing to the 0:39:45.400 --> 0:39:47.200 never ending knowledge on it, the everything part. 0:39:47.880 --> 0:39:51.000 Well, I genuinely anything I bring up. You have a 0:39:51.040 --> 0:39:54.480 story about which I find very impressive. So it's just 0:39:54.520 --> 0:39:56.440 the truth. You know a lot of things in that 0:39:56.480 --> 0:40:00.040 brain versus me, I delete things pretty. 0:39:59.840 --> 0:40:04.359 Fam I've deleted some shit. I don't suggest braging your 0:40:04.360 --> 0:40:07.760 brain into your skull if you want to retain information. 0:40:07.840 --> 0:40:09.520 That's something I've done a little bit too much in 0:40:09.560 --> 0:40:10.120 my life. 0:40:10.320 --> 0:40:14.600 Oh yeah, I think that's wise. But anyway, the Sea Urchin, 0:40:15.480 --> 0:40:18.919 maybe y'all know it as UNI, but actually the sea 0:40:19.040 --> 0:40:22.239 urchin and Uni are not synonymous words, and they do 0:40:22.320 --> 0:40:25.400 not mean the same thing. UNI is actually only a 0:40:25.440 --> 0:40:28.239 small part of the sea urchin, the edible part, and 0:40:28.280 --> 0:40:30.680 we will get into exactly what it is later on, 0:40:31.280 --> 0:40:34.719 but its flavor seems to be quite distinct. In twenty sixteen, 0:40:34.920 --> 0:40:37.480 Nesley described UNI as one of the top ten food 0:40:37.520 --> 0:40:40.880 trends due to its unique flavor. Some people describe the 0:40:40.880 --> 0:40:44.319 taste as rich and complex. Others describe it as having 0:40:44.360 --> 0:40:46.960 a rich, buttery flavor that is often compared to that 0:40:47.040 --> 0:40:48.680 of fois gras. 0:40:48.680 --> 0:40:52.400 But right, magic, Yeah, thank you for taking my French lessons. 0:40:52.760 --> 0:40:53.120 Thank you. 0:40:54.440 --> 0:40:57.400 It has a slightly sweet and briny taste that is 0:40:57.480 --> 0:40:59.880 unique to sea urchin. James, how would you describe it 0:41:00.080 --> 0:41:01.520 someone who has had the urchin? 0:41:01.960 --> 0:41:04.799 Yeah, it's like ocean butter. I think like it's kind 0:41:04.800 --> 0:41:07.640 of buttery nurse, but like also like a briny kind 0:41:07.640 --> 0:41:12.000 of essence of the sea. Noess, Everything tastes good when 0:41:12.040 --> 0:41:15.439 you're like like sitting on the rocks eating it, you know, like, yeah, 0:41:15.719 --> 0:41:16.319 this is the thing. 0:41:16.239 --> 0:41:18.280 I like to do, refreshing or something. 0:41:18.640 --> 0:41:21.200 Yeah, And like it's nice to get your own food, 0:41:21.280 --> 0:41:24.440 isn't it. Like it's nice to it's nice to go 0:41:24.440 --> 0:41:25.759 to the bottom of the ocean and grab a sea 0:41:25.880 --> 0:41:27.520 urchin and then bring him back up and eat him. 0:41:27.840 --> 0:41:30.480 And you know, know that you're also helping to preserve 0:41:30.520 --> 0:41:32.560 the kelp, so like you have a little aura around it, 0:41:32.560 --> 0:41:34.160 which we're going to talk about I'm sure. Yeah, I 0:41:34.360 --> 0:41:38.520 think I think ocean butter. I've never really been one 0:41:38.600 --> 0:41:41.080 to like bring it home. I know people do pasta 0:41:41.080 --> 0:41:45.319 sauces with it. Yeah, I'm not a big pasta sauce maker, 0:41:45.360 --> 0:41:47.600 so I'll just normally crack them open, or you know, 0:41:47.600 --> 0:41:49.120 get some friends around, open them up, and then you 0:41:49.200 --> 0:41:51.200 get one. You get a nice shell. You kind of 0:41:51.640 --> 0:41:53.880 you keep that one nice and you do like a 0:41:53.880 --> 0:41:57.080 little little kind of salca or something in there with 0:41:57.120 --> 0:41:58.799 the uni, or you just put the oonie in there 0:41:58.800 --> 0:42:02.440 and people dip into it. Wow, it's a nice little presentation. 0:42:02.480 --> 0:42:04.320 A whole new world. I had no idea. 0:42:04.800 --> 0:42:06.680 Yeah, so you have to come down and dreamed. And 0:42:06.719 --> 0:42:10.560 now we'll do a live podcast everyone from me. 0:42:10.760 --> 0:42:14.320 No, I don't know. I don't after learning about them. 0:42:14.719 --> 0:42:16.400 They might be too cute for me to eat, but 0:42:16.440 --> 0:42:17.399 I guess we'll just keep talking. 0:42:18.200 --> 0:42:19.800 That's going to make me sad if that's the case. 0:42:20.200 --> 0:42:22.279 There's just one that I keep thinking about called the 0:42:22.320 --> 0:42:25.240 sea potato, which we'll get into later. But it's so cute. 0:42:25.320 --> 0:42:27.640 I can't stop thinking about the sea potato. But anyway, 0:42:28.239 --> 0:42:30.640 we'll get into that in a second. According to Food 0:42:30.680 --> 0:42:34.600 in Life, magazine Oonie is complicated. They say, if you 0:42:34.680 --> 0:42:37.480 know unie, there's a chance you love it. There's also 0:42:37.520 --> 0:42:40.040 a chance you took one look at this creamy yellow 0:42:40.040 --> 0:42:43.840 seafood and decided it would never enter your mouth. In 0:42:43.920 --> 0:42:46.240 the same article I found, they say that some people 0:42:46.239 --> 0:42:49.520 say it's sweet and buttery, with icy, cold raw unie 0:42:49.600 --> 0:42:52.160 and sushi as their preferred method to enjoy it. And 0:42:52.320 --> 0:42:55.160 apparently it also tastes delicious when it's lightly cooked or steamed. 0:42:55.520 --> 0:42:57.879 And some say, as you just said, kind of that 0:42:57.960 --> 0:43:02.840 the flavor evokes a dip in salt water. So yeah, 0:43:03.640 --> 0:43:08.080 very very poetic there. But again, maybe the most popular 0:43:08.160 --> 0:43:11.839 way y'all have seen sea urchin is being served as 0:43:12.239 --> 0:43:16.399 sushi ni uni. Sushi is a delicacy that has gained 0:43:16.400 --> 0:43:19.520 popularity around the world, and the dish consists of the 0:43:19.560 --> 0:43:23.080 sea urchin being raw and with rice sushi. 0:43:23.280 --> 0:43:23.520 Wow. 0:43:23.600 --> 0:43:26.920 A cute little bite. But the history of our little 0:43:26.920 --> 0:43:29.640 sea urchin is a humble one and its journey to 0:43:29.680 --> 0:43:34.080 become a global delicacy has been slow and steady. We're 0:43:34.080 --> 0:43:36.120 going to take a look at the history of the 0:43:36.160 --> 0:43:39.520 sea urchin as a food source and its cultural significance. 0:43:40.600 --> 0:43:42.919 So are you ready, buckle. 0:43:42.640 --> 0:43:45.880 Up, there we go okay unbuckled. 0:43:47.000 --> 0:43:49.680 The sea urchin has its roots in Japan, where it 0:43:49.719 --> 0:43:52.640 has been enjoyed for centuries. The first known mention of 0:43:52.680 --> 0:43:55.080 sea urchin as a food source dates back to the 0:43:55.239 --> 0:43:59.080 Edo period, spanning between sixteen oh three and eighteen sixty eight. 0:43:59.560 --> 0:44:02.480 During this period, the sea urchin was consumed by the 0:44:02.600 --> 0:44:08.600 samurai class. The sea urchin has other cultural significances in Japan. 0:44:08.719 --> 0:44:11.000 The sea urchin is associated with the ocean and is 0:44:11.000 --> 0:44:14.479 considered a symbol of good luck and prosperity. It's also 0:44:14.520 --> 0:44:17.560 believed to have a number of health benefits, including improved 0:44:17.640 --> 0:44:21.880 skin health and increased fertility. However, it wasn't until the 0:44:21.880 --> 0:44:24.759 twentieth century that the sea urchin became popular as a 0:44:24.760 --> 0:44:28.960 sushi ingredient. Sea urchin was used and is still used 0:44:29.000 --> 0:44:33.240 today in Japanese cuisine. More broadly, it's used in soups 0:44:33.280 --> 0:44:37.280 and rice bowls, and it's often served in traditional kaiseki meals. 0:44:37.760 --> 0:44:41.920 A kaiseki meal is basically a traditional multi course Japanese dinner. 0:44:42.480 --> 0:44:45.239 This term fun fact also refers to the collection of 0:44:45.280 --> 0:44:48.800 skills and techniques that allow the preparation of such meals. 0:44:49.239 --> 0:44:51.799 In addition to the sea urchin being an ingredient in 0:44:51.880 --> 0:44:55.440 Japanese cuisine, the harvesting and processing of sea urchin is 0:44:55.440 --> 0:44:59.360 an important industry in many coastal regions of Japan. So 0:44:59.440 --> 0:45:02.520 even though it's served raw, usually as sushi, as James said, 0:45:02.560 --> 0:45:05.719 it's used in a variety of ways, like in sauces, pastas, 0:45:06.000 --> 0:45:09.480 and on bread for centuries. Modern day chefs are even 0:45:09.520 --> 0:45:12.360 transforming it now into foam and moose. 0:45:13.080 --> 0:45:13.440 Moose. 0:45:14.840 --> 0:45:16.759 Yeah, I ain't got time for that shit. I hate. 0:45:17.600 --> 0:45:19.920 I'm sure it looks pretty well. It looks rat it's 0:45:20.000 --> 0:45:21.840 very orange. If you've not seen it, I mean, you 0:45:21.920 --> 0:45:24.360 get on Google and that's you're driving and look for 0:45:24.400 --> 0:45:26.839 a picture of it. Maybe I'll maybe I'll post one. 0:45:27.800 --> 0:45:30.440 People use it as a thumbnail for this episode. 0:45:30.560 --> 0:45:32.920 I mean, I did watch the harvesting. I had never 0:45:32.920 --> 0:45:34.920 seen it being harvested before, so I saw that. But 0:45:34.960 --> 0:45:38.040 the color is like crazy from the jump, Like as 0:45:38.040 --> 0:45:39.600 soon as you crack it open, it's just like this 0:45:39.719 --> 0:45:40.880 crazy bright color. 0:45:41.040 --> 0:45:44.160 I never Yeah, I mean they're purple, the ones that 0:45:44.320 --> 0:45:46.799 the ones you're getting in California are purple. There are 0:45:46.800 --> 0:45:49.120 red some purples, but you want to be hitting the purples. Yeah, 0:45:49.160 --> 0:45:52.080 if you're diving in California, so will your foot. Your 0:45:52.080 --> 0:45:54.319 foot will be purple. If you stand on one. It 0:45:54.440 --> 0:45:57.239 is a bad day if you've you stand on the 0:45:57.280 --> 0:45:59.200 sea urchin, so it'll spine can go in and break. 0:45:59.239 --> 0:46:03.799 I've done that a couple Uh. Yeah, yeah, don't be 0:46:03.800 --> 0:46:06.120 doing that and getting affections learned from my mistakes. 0:46:06.640 --> 0:46:09.600 Yeah, please do. But when it does come to sushi, 0:46:09.840 --> 0:46:13.160 the sea urchin was considered a cheap and plentiful ingredient 0:46:13.200 --> 0:46:15.680 for a long time, and it was often used in 0:46:15.719 --> 0:46:19.759 sushi rolls alongside other more expensive ingredient just fill out 0:46:19.760 --> 0:46:23.280 the role. However, as the taste for sea urchin grew, 0:46:23.840 --> 0:46:27.240 sushi chefs began to showcase it as a standalone ingredient. 0:46:27.760 --> 0:46:31.160 Hard launched as an ingredient everyone liked. Today, it's enjoyed 0:46:31.200 --> 0:46:33.600 around the world, as I said, and considered a delicacy. 0:46:34.200 --> 0:46:36.480 It's often served in high end restaurants, and it can 0:46:36.560 --> 0:46:39.080 get to be quite expensive because of its rarity and 0:46:39.120 --> 0:46:42.719 the difficulty of sourcing high quality sea urchin. Because, as 0:46:42.719 --> 0:46:45.120 with many things, sea urchin is safe to eat as 0:46:45.200 --> 0:46:48.360 long as it is prepared properly, it's important to ensure 0:46:48.480 --> 0:46:51.640 the urchin is fresh and has been handled and stored correctly. 0:46:52.840 --> 0:46:56.200 Let's get a little bit more scientific. I'm gonna mispronounce 0:46:56.200 --> 0:46:59.800 a bunch of stuff coming up, so oops. Sea urchins 0:46:59.840 --> 0:47:03.080 are globe shaped little creatures that live on the ocean floor. 0:47:03.600 --> 0:47:06.920 Sea urchins belong to a group of marine invertebrates called 0:47:07.640 --> 0:47:12.520 a kinoderms, which means spiky skinned. Animals in this group 0:47:12.680 --> 0:47:17.360 also include sea cucumbers, sea lillies, brittle stars, and starfish 0:47:17.400 --> 0:47:18.920 aka sea stars. 0:47:19.760 --> 0:47:22.760 This is some of my favorite little under underwater creatures. 0:47:23.000 --> 0:47:23.879 What a cute little group. 0:47:23.920 --> 0:47:25.600 I love it. Yeah, I love to see a se 0:47:26.120 --> 0:47:30.359 by discuking alone a starfish, you know, like I love. 0:47:30.520 --> 0:47:31.920 Who doesn't love to see a starfish? 0:47:32.120 --> 0:47:32.359 Yeah? 0:47:32.480 --> 0:47:34.200 Leave them alone. Don't touch the starfish. 0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:37.600 Yeah, please just leave them be. They didn't do anything 0:47:37.600 --> 0:47:39.080 to you. They just want to live and. 0:47:39.080 --> 0:47:40.520 They sing down. 0:47:40.560 --> 0:47:42.080 There're the biggest chillers, you know. 0:47:42.320 --> 0:47:44.719 Yeah, they did nothing wrong. I will stab you if 0:47:44.760 --> 0:47:46.279 you mess with the starfish. 0:47:46.520 --> 0:47:50.799 I respect that. The spherical shells of sea urchins are 0:47:50.840 --> 0:47:53.960 called tests, and they're made up of plates and movable 0:47:54.000 --> 0:47:57.400 spines that protect them from predators. Sea urchins can be 0:47:57.400 --> 0:48:00.680 found in all of the Earth's oceans, and they first 0:48:00.680 --> 0:48:04.640 appeared as a species around four hundred and fifty million 0:48:04.719 --> 0:48:07.600 years ago. One of the groups present in our oceans 0:48:07.640 --> 0:48:10.839 today a word I will mispronounced right now, but it 0:48:10.880 --> 0:48:14.120 was the first to evolve. It was the sadairo dia. 0:48:14.600 --> 0:48:16.719 Let's go with that. Start to the sea. You can 0:48:16.760 --> 0:48:18.880 look it up if you want, but it appeared about 0:48:18.880 --> 0:48:22.840 two hundred and sixty eight million years ago. These primitive 0:48:22.880 --> 0:48:27.160 sea urchins, they often have stubby, rounded off spines. A 0:48:27.200 --> 0:48:30.319 second group of sea urchins are called a kinodea, and 0:48:30.360 --> 0:48:32.960 they evolved a little later, and they include the spiky 0:48:33.000 --> 0:48:36.799 creatures you probably are more familiar with. This subclass is 0:48:36.840 --> 0:48:41.000 known as the quote modern sea urchin. The most recognizable 0:48:41.000 --> 0:48:44.400 sea urchins are round, often brightly colored, and covered in 0:48:44.480 --> 0:48:48.359 these sharp looking spines. In fact, urchin comes from an 0:48:48.360 --> 0:48:52.480 old word for hedgehog, and because they look like hedgehogs 0:48:52.480 --> 0:48:54.120 with their little spiky armors. 0:48:54.160 --> 0:48:57.320 Fun it didn't edit, Yeah, I love a hedgehog. Hedgehog 0:48:57.400 --> 0:48:57.799 is one of those. 0:48:58.680 --> 0:48:59.959 They're the urchins of the land. 0:49:00.239 --> 0:49:02.759 They look they're not because they're not like they're not 0:49:02.800 --> 0:49:05.040 proud relaying the ecosystem that. 0:49:05.719 --> 0:49:09.000 I didn't mean it completely. Literally, they look like little orchins, 0:49:09.000 --> 0:49:09.760 but they're all rounded. 0:49:09.800 --> 0:49:11.600 Oh yeah, they kind of do. There's one that visits 0:49:11.600 --> 0:49:13.879 my dad, oh pretty often. It lives by his house 0:49:13.880 --> 0:49:15.080 and he sends me videos of it. 0:49:15.360 --> 0:49:16.000 That's cute. 0:49:16.280 --> 0:49:18.399 Yeah, I think he gives it like a dog food. 0:49:18.400 --> 0:49:19.719 We used to give them milk when I was. 0:49:19.680 --> 0:49:25.400 Another example of me saying literally anything and James, sorry, 0:49:26.280 --> 0:49:27.439 don't apologize. It's great. 0:49:27.960 --> 0:49:29.840 I want people to know that you shouldn't give them 0:49:29.880 --> 0:49:32.000 bread and milk, that you should and said give them 0:49:32.000 --> 0:49:32.719 wet dog food. 0:49:33.000 --> 0:49:34.879 Okay, good to know. Did not know that. 0:49:35.400 --> 0:49:37.960 Yeah, if you come across one, they're legal in California. Though, 0:49:38.160 --> 0:49:40.000 fucking I'm doing it again. Sorry, you're doing it again. 0:49:40.239 --> 0:49:43.759 I learned so much whatever conversation I have. But back 0:49:43.800 --> 0:49:47.640 to the species of sea urchins. There are over one 0:49:47.640 --> 0:49:51.360 thousand species of sea urchins, and they have varying characteristics. 0:49:51.640 --> 0:49:54.799 They inhabit a wide range of depth zones and all 0:49:54.840 --> 0:49:58.760 climates across the world's oceans, and only eighteen of them 0:49:58.840 --> 0:49:59.840 are actually edible. 0:50:00.320 --> 0:50:01.040 It's interesting. 0:50:01.640 --> 0:50:04.360 Most modern sea urchins are round, as I said, but 0:50:04.440 --> 0:50:08.000 about a quarter of them have modified that body plan massively. 0:50:08.600 --> 0:50:11.080 For example, there are sea urchins who evolved into a 0:50:11.120 --> 0:50:15.000 flotter shape and have smaller spines that adapted to life 0:50:15.080 --> 0:50:18.680 burrowing in the sand. You can get really weird shapes 0:50:18.719 --> 0:50:21.279 of these deep sea urchins with strange bodies that don't 0:50:21.280 --> 0:50:23.719 look at anything else. We don't know much about these 0:50:23.800 --> 0:50:26.160 deep sea urchins yet because they're very hard to reach 0:50:26.200 --> 0:50:28.560 and they're very fragile, and this makes it very difficult 0:50:28.600 --> 0:50:30.120 for people to study them on the surface. 0:50:30.680 --> 0:50:32.319 I think this is a great If you are a 0:50:32.360 --> 0:50:35.440 billionaire and you are listening to this podcast, you could 0:50:35.480 --> 0:50:37.640 have a sea urchin species named after you. All you 0:50:37.680 --> 0:50:40.960 need to do is create a submarine, fill it with 0:50:41.120 --> 0:50:43.640 other wealthy people, and then take it to the bottom 0:50:43.640 --> 0:50:45.280 of the ocean to study sea urchins. 0:50:46.800 --> 0:50:48.319 You know what else should go into the bottom of 0:50:48.320 --> 0:50:48.840 the ocean. 0:50:51.400 --> 0:50:54.640 It's in the products and services to support the Yes, 0:50:55.080 --> 0:50:57.759 how kind of you. It's not hedgehogs. They don't belong there, 0:50:57.880 --> 0:51:02.359 none them matter this. Hopefully it's a hedgehog advert Fuck 0:51:02.400 --> 0:51:04.840 the police, get a hedgehog in California, acab. 0:51:15.440 --> 0:51:19.040 And we're back. I had just talked about some irregular 0:51:19.080 --> 0:51:22.440 shaped sea urchins before the break, and an example of 0:51:22.440 --> 0:51:25.400 this kind of sea urchin is actually the sand dollar. 0:51:26.000 --> 0:51:28.680 Sand dollars are much flatter than other urchins, and this 0:51:28.760 --> 0:51:32.400 is an adaptation that just better suited their environment. Like 0:51:32.480 --> 0:51:36.360 most ecnoderms, sea urchins have an internal skeleton called a test. 0:51:36.960 --> 0:51:39.399 A sea urchins test is made up of a type 0:51:39.400 --> 0:51:43.040 of calcium carbonate called sterium, which is a porous structure 0:51:43.080 --> 0:51:46.520 that holds the urchin together like jigsaw pieces cemented in place. 0:51:47.360 --> 0:51:51.000 Sea urchin tests have five symmetrical parts arranged around a 0:51:51.080 --> 0:51:54.440 central point, like segments of an orange, and this shape 0:51:54.480 --> 0:51:57.279 isn't always obvious from the living creature, but it can 0:51:57.360 --> 0:52:01.600 be seen on their skeleton when it's dried. Yeah, I 0:52:01.640 --> 0:52:04.200 found this next bit kind of cute and funny and 0:52:04.239 --> 0:52:08.120 the little sad. But sea urchins can't swim. They live 0:52:08.239 --> 0:52:11.800 and move along the seafloor, favoring hard surfaces like coral 0:52:11.880 --> 0:52:15.879 and rocks. They have appendages called tube feet, and they 0:52:15.880 --> 0:52:18.520 often have suckers at the tips of these feet. The 0:52:18.560 --> 0:52:21.440 sea urchin uses the hydraulic pressure of water moving in 0:52:21.560 --> 0:52:24.360 and out of their little tube feet to move about slowly. 0:52:24.800 --> 0:52:28.359 They can also propel themselves with their spines. That's pretty 0:52:28.400 --> 0:52:32.200 impressive because they don't have brains, and that's another fun 0:52:32.239 --> 0:52:33.360 fact that was kind of sad. 0:52:33.440 --> 0:52:34.319 They're still cute though. 0:52:35.200 --> 0:52:38.040 Some sea urchins also have these pincer like organs that 0:52:38.080 --> 0:52:42.160 look like little jaws, called pedicalaria. These are mostly used 0:52:42.160 --> 0:52:44.880 for self defense or to remove debris from the animal 0:52:45.239 --> 0:52:48.200 and some of the penicolaria. And sea urchins are venomous. 0:52:49.440 --> 0:52:52.680 Urchins primarily feed on algae and kelp, but they are 0:52:52.680 --> 0:52:56.640 also omnivorous scavengers that will feed on animal matter. Their 0:52:56.680 --> 0:52:59.040 main diet then is algae, but they can also eat 0:52:59.080 --> 0:53:02.879 animals too, like sea cucumbers their own kind, as well 0:53:02.880 --> 0:53:06.200 as muscles and sponges. So as sea urchins move about 0:53:06.239 --> 0:53:08.839 on their tube feet, they scrape algae into their mouth. 0:53:09.320 --> 0:53:11.960 Their unique chewing organ, or the mouth part of the 0:53:12.000 --> 0:53:17.320 sea urchin, is called Aristotle's lantern. It includes complex jaws 0:53:17.440 --> 0:53:22.160 as well as five self sharpening teeth. If something nutritious 0:53:22.239 --> 0:53:24.719 lands on a sea urchin's body out of reach of 0:53:24.760 --> 0:53:28.399 their Aristotle's lantern, they'll use their tube feet to pass 0:53:28.440 --> 0:53:31.400 the food into the mouth. A sea urchin's mouth is 0:53:31.440 --> 0:53:34.920 actually on the underside of its body, whereas its anus 0:53:35.000 --> 0:53:37.160 is on the top, and so they scrape of food 0:53:37.160 --> 0:53:39.160 from the ocean floor, and it makes sense that the 0:53:39.239 --> 0:53:41.640 mouth is on the underside, and then when they poop, 0:53:41.840 --> 0:53:45.239 they excrete waste from the top of their body. Thought, 0:53:45.239 --> 0:53:47.480 that's a funny, little little creature. 0:53:48.360 --> 0:53:50.560 So we are everything living. It turns out the longer, 0:53:50.719 --> 0:53:53.680 like all living things are just tubes, right, Yeah, like 0:53:53.760 --> 0:53:55.640 for food goes in one end and the rest waste 0:53:55.640 --> 0:53:58.239 comes out of the other. That is very true, Legs. Yeah, 0:53:58.239 --> 0:53:59.560 it's my philosophical insight. 0:54:00.360 --> 0:54:02.960 And the video I did see of the harvesting, actually 0:54:03.000 --> 0:54:04.320 you cut it from the mouth. 0:54:04.440 --> 0:54:08.560 The underside going in the basa into the Aristotle's lanting, 0:54:08.640 --> 0:54:09.560 which I know is cool. 0:54:09.640 --> 0:54:10.320 Isn't that interesting? 0:54:10.360 --> 0:54:11.719 I think it's fascinating. 0:54:11.840 --> 0:54:14.000 Yeah, Aristotle's lantern. 0:54:14.400 --> 0:54:19.600 Yeah, why, that's a good Scarristotlegs. 0:54:20.480 --> 0:54:23.200 But maybe you're asking yourself. Maybe not, but I'm going 0:54:23.239 --> 0:54:26.000 to tell you anyway, how do these sea urchins reproduce? 0:54:26.719 --> 0:54:30.399 Most sea urchins reproduced by females releasing eggs directly into 0:54:30.440 --> 0:54:33.600 the water, and then these are fertilized by sperm. Some 0:54:33.719 --> 0:54:37.319 species females hold eggs in their spines to better protect them. 0:54:37.680 --> 0:54:40.520 Most sea urchins will release millions of eggs at one 0:54:40.560 --> 0:54:43.720 time and live in huge colonies to increase the chances 0:54:43.760 --> 0:54:48.280 of reproductive success. There are also more solitary species. However, 0:54:49.280 --> 0:54:51.520 as I mentioned earlier, there are some species that are 0:54:51.560 --> 0:54:54.200 in fact poisonous. A lot of them are tropical. They 0:54:54.200 --> 0:54:56.560 have venom in their spines, and if you're unlucky enough 0:54:56.560 --> 0:54:59.359 to step on a venomous urchin, the toxins can enter 0:54:59.400 --> 0:55:02.720 the body through the puncture wound. Some sea urchin's venoms 0:55:02.760 --> 0:55:07.360 can cause really grows symptoms like nausea and vomiting, breathing difficulties, 0:55:07.719 --> 0:55:10.040 but even the most venomous sea urchin has only been 0:55:10.080 --> 0:55:13.680 linked to one reported human death, so you'll most likely 0:55:13.719 --> 0:55:14.880 be fine. 0:55:15.080 --> 0:55:20.239 It's kinda suck, I have no doubt. It's probably one 0:55:20.239 --> 0:55:21.880 of those things. I guarantee. This is one of the 0:55:21.880 --> 0:55:23.680 things that people will tell you you need all your 0:55:23.680 --> 0:55:27.319 friends to piss on you, like teems with no just 0:55:27.600 --> 0:55:29.560 like if that's your thing, get after it. 0:55:29.600 --> 0:55:30.880 Like why do people say that. 0:55:31.520 --> 0:55:33.360 I don't know, I don't know it just maybe it 0:55:33.520 --> 0:55:36.520 like maybe someone said it. No one, no one has 0:55:36.680 --> 0:55:39.719 like felt the need to contradict it, because obviously, like 0:55:39.920 --> 0:55:42.360 there are very few medical treatments should involve pissing. No 0:55:42.480 --> 0:55:45.040 I think so, oh what I mean. 0:55:45.040 --> 0:55:47.359 Trend Some guy just like was trolling someone and then 0:55:47.400 --> 0:55:47.880 it became. 0:55:47.920 --> 0:55:52.239 Yeah, yeah, yeah, like jellyfish stings right, people do like, yeah, 0:55:52.280 --> 0:55:54.799 someone h it was at the beach here that day, 0:55:54.800 --> 0:55:56.279 and someone got whacked by a sting ray. 0:55:56.920 --> 0:56:00.160 Yeah, and someone was like, piss on. It knows to 0:56:00.200 --> 0:56:01.680 do that or are things to do that? It's like 0:56:01.680 --> 0:56:01.920 a thing. 0:56:02.120 --> 0:56:04.120 It doesn't. It's a good way to get banns from 0:56:04.160 --> 0:56:08.560 the beach for life. Their children, there are children there. 0:56:09.000 --> 0:56:10.720 Put it in hot water. It's sisting racing. 0:56:10.880 --> 0:56:11.720 That's really funny. 0:56:12.120 --> 0:56:13.640 Have a few beers and go to sleep. 0:56:14.120 --> 0:56:17.200 Good to know, Good to know. The most venomous, most 0:56:17.239 --> 0:56:21.520 toxic sea urchin is actually called the flower urchin. It's 0:56:21.560 --> 0:56:24.000 scientific name, which I was gonna say, but I'm not, 0:56:24.080 --> 0:56:27.960 but it basically translates into poison breath. So, as I 0:56:28.000 --> 0:56:31.280 mentioned in my opinion, the cutest sea urchin is called 0:56:31.360 --> 0:56:34.720 the seat potato. The sea potato is covered in short, 0:56:34.840 --> 0:56:37.960 beige little spines that give it a furry appearance, and 0:56:38.000 --> 0:56:42.720 it's quite distinct from its other sharper spined cousins. These 0:56:42.800 --> 0:56:46.240 sea urchins burrow into the seafloor, and their fuzzy spines 0:56:46.400 --> 0:56:49.880 trap air, preventing the urchin from suffocating under the sand. 0:56:50.440 --> 0:56:53.600 Sea potatoes are also known as heart urchins due to 0:56:53.640 --> 0:56:56.560 the shape of their test. You can find them apparently 0:56:56.640 --> 0:56:58.040 in waters around the UK. 0:56:58.719 --> 0:57:01.319 James, Okay, I get like a sea potato right now, 0:57:01.440 --> 0:57:05.080 you have every Oh yeah, these little chaps. 0:57:05.200 --> 0:57:06.600 Yeah, it's a little little fluffer. 0:57:07.080 --> 0:57:12.839 Yeah, it's a little fluke. Yeah, and you can find 0:57:12.880 --> 0:57:14.680 it when they're dried out too. They kind of look 0:57:15.000 --> 0:57:17.200 I guess, I guess to the you know, they look 0:57:17.240 --> 0:57:19.320 a bit like a sand dollar, right, that's sort of 0:57:19.480 --> 0:57:21.600 a thicker sand dollar. They've got some pike to them. 0:57:21.840 --> 0:57:24.000 Yeah, they're more round versus flat. 0:57:24.240 --> 0:57:24.479 Yeah. 0:57:24.640 --> 0:57:27.920 Down in cornwall. Yeah, they get they can get washed 0:57:28.000 --> 0:57:31.000 up on the beach. Sometimes not entirely potato looking, if 0:57:31.000 --> 0:57:33.760 we're honest. Yeah, there I can see. Yeah, they were 0:57:33.760 --> 0:57:35.720 passing similarity to potato, I suppose. 0:57:36.200 --> 0:57:36.520 Yeah. 0:57:36.800 --> 0:57:38.600 I think they're cute. Yeah they do. 0:57:38.680 --> 0:57:41.120 Look when you see them, when they look really fluffy, Yeah, 0:57:41.120 --> 0:57:44.040 it does look like a like a beaver or something. 0:57:45.280 --> 0:57:47.040 Wait, how how big have you seen them? Can you 0:57:47.040 --> 0:57:48.440 show me with your hand? 0:57:48.880 --> 0:57:51.760 Yeah, like a like a hand size, you know, like 0:57:51.800 --> 0:57:55.280 a like a like a sort of yeah. 0:57:55.960 --> 0:57:57.160 Both hands to make a circle. 0:57:57.640 --> 0:57:59.840 Yeah, like if you were like if you were doing 0:57:59.840 --> 0:58:03.800 that hand hot, very millennial of you. Yeah, yeah, excites. 0:58:03.920 --> 0:58:06.280 Yeah, I do have a heart test. 0:58:06.440 --> 0:58:08.640 Yeah, if you're a millennial, you could go up to 0:58:08.680 --> 0:58:09.960 them and do that, I bet, and put it on 0:58:10.040 --> 0:58:12.040 your Instagram in a millennial way. 0:58:12.080 --> 0:58:15.320 And yeah, and only James will know what you're talking about. 0:58:15.680 --> 0:58:20.120 Yeah, well there's thousands of people. All your friends will 0:58:20.120 --> 0:58:24.160 think you're cool. Tell him, I told you got it. 0:58:25.080 --> 0:58:29.200 You heard it here first, sea Urchin's cool. The physiology 0:58:29.240 --> 0:58:31.600 of a sea urchin is actually pretty significant. As I 0:58:31.680 --> 0:58:34.800 mentioned earlier, there's only one part that is edible, which 0:58:34.800 --> 0:58:38.000 is the unie. When it comes to consumption, they're harvested 0:58:38.040 --> 0:58:40.600 for their gonads, and the go net is essentially a 0:58:40.640 --> 0:58:44.440 sex gland or reproductive organ that produces the sex hormones 0:58:44.440 --> 0:58:47.560 of an organism. So the go nets are reproductive organs 0:58:47.640 --> 0:58:49.640 are the edible part of the sea urchin, and that 0:58:49.760 --> 0:58:52.400 is known as unie rather than the sea urchin as 0:58:52.480 --> 0:58:56.520 a whole. Sometimes uni is mistakenly built as row which 0:58:56.520 --> 0:58:59.400 are fish eggs, but it's not that it's the reproductive 0:58:59.520 --> 0:59:04.880 organ and each sea urchin usually produces five gonads or 0:59:04.960 --> 0:59:08.000 uni quote unquote tongues that slip out with a spoon. 0:59:08.720 --> 0:59:12.760 And these gonads are sometimes bright yellow to orange lobes, 0:59:12.840 --> 0:59:16.840 and they're apparently stock piles of sugars, amino acids, and salts, 0:59:17.120 --> 0:59:21.680 a trifecta of sweet, salty, and umami. And that's why 0:59:22.000 --> 0:59:24.560 I guess it's been dubbed as the butter of the 0:59:24.600 --> 0:59:27.880 sea or something like that. And they are also similar 0:59:27.880 --> 0:59:30.120 to oysters in the fact that they can vary from 0:59:30.160 --> 0:59:33.640 flavor depending on the species and the diet of the organism. 0:59:34.160 --> 0:59:37.320 Urchin lovers, for example, prize Hokkaido Uni because of its 0:59:37.440 --> 0:59:40.960 umami intensive flavor, which is developed because of the urchin's 0:59:41.040 --> 0:59:45.680 diet of the Hokkaido macro algae combu aka the kelp. 0:59:46.720 --> 0:59:49.800 The green, red, and purple species have the highest demand 0:59:49.800 --> 0:59:52.520 globally because their lobes tend to be larger and more 0:59:52.600 --> 0:59:56.760 visually appetizing. Ninety nine percent of sea urchins are wild 0:59:56.880 --> 0:59:59.400 and harvested either by diving or drags. 1:00:00.360 --> 1:00:02.520 You if you are buying giosi e. Gens, I don't 1:00:02.520 --> 1:00:04.320 know why you would buy them. Even but you want 1:00:04.320 --> 1:00:06.080 to get the dived ones, don't. I'm not sure if 1:00:06.080 --> 1:00:07.880 you could get dragneted stuff in the US, but it's 1:00:07.920 --> 1:00:11.240 very damaging to the ocean floor. Any any of this stuff, right, scollops, 1:00:11.640 --> 1:00:14.000 et cetera. You want it can dived better. Yet, just 1:00:14.000 --> 1:00:15.800 go and get it yourself if you, if you're able to, 1:00:15.800 --> 1:00:17.480 if you you close by the ocean. But yeah, don't, 1:00:17.480 --> 1:00:18.880 don't be buying dragneted stuff. 1:00:19.960 --> 1:00:22.240 There are several species of note, and I mentioned some 1:00:22.280 --> 1:00:27.280 of them earlier, but others include the murasaki aka purple unie, 1:00:27.680 --> 1:00:30.920 and that uni fetches the highest price because of its 1:00:31.000 --> 1:00:36.240 large tongues and sweet flavor. Another species worth mentioning is 1:00:36.280 --> 1:00:39.760 the smaller buffun ouoni b a f u n ba 1:00:39.920 --> 1:00:43.600 fun but its name literally translates to horseshit because of 1:00:43.680 --> 1:00:47.000 the way that these round, brownish little creatures cluster on 1:00:47.080 --> 1:00:50.080 the ocean floor. A little note here that I didn't 1:00:50.080 --> 1:00:52.600 know about until reading about this, and maybe someone else 1:00:52.640 --> 1:00:56.320 out there didn't know this either. Again, I learned English 1:00:56.320 --> 1:00:58.800 as the second language. Maybe it's obvious, but this word 1:00:58.840 --> 1:01:00.920 sea or chin is similar to the word fish in 1:01:00.960 --> 1:01:04.480 that sea urchin can be both singular and plural. I 1:01:04.560 --> 1:01:07.640 didn't know that, so if you hear me using both interchangeably, 1:01:07.880 --> 1:01:11.520 that's why cute little word. I mentioned this earlier. But 1:01:11.720 --> 1:01:15.400 freshness is the key to good uni. It should be 1:01:15.480 --> 1:01:18.600 firm and bright colored, without any signs of seepage, and 1:01:18.760 --> 1:01:23.280 ideally still tiled or crisscrossed in its original packaging. Once 1:01:23.360 --> 1:01:26.400 it's harvested, it begins to melt, and its flavor can 1:01:26.440 --> 1:01:30.560 turn unforgettably bitter and off. In the best of worlds, 1:01:30.720 --> 1:01:33.720 uni is cleaned, iced and shipped before it can spoil, 1:01:34.280 --> 1:01:37.080 but it can also be treated with additives, including alum, 1:01:37.440 --> 1:01:40.800 to keep it firm. These chemicals may contribute to an 1:01:40.800 --> 1:01:44.360 off flavor if the UNI gets old. Some sushi chefs 1:01:44.520 --> 1:01:48.000 prefer in soy uni, which is shipped in a brine 1:01:48.000 --> 1:01:52.520 that mimics the salinity of seawater. The global and domestic 1:01:52.560 --> 1:01:55.920 market for sea urchin and uni is extensive. The greatest 1:01:55.920 --> 1:01:59.440 consumption of sea urchin occurs in Japan, France, and Korea. 1:02:00.040 --> 1:02:04.360 Japanese consumption, however, wins by a landslide. The country consumes 1:02:04.400 --> 1:02:07.400 about eighty to ninety percent of the current global supply. 1:02:08.080 --> 1:02:12.280 Sea urchin is a traditional staple in Japanese cuisine. Japan 1:02:12.600 --> 1:02:15.240 was the largest global harvester of sea urchins until the 1:02:15.320 --> 1:02:18.640 nineteen eighties, but high demand and a decrease of domestic 1:02:18.720 --> 1:02:22.480 supply forced Japan to look abroad. From the nineteen eighties 1:02:22.480 --> 1:02:25.640 to nineteen ninety four, the US, particularly Maine, was the 1:02:25.760 --> 1:02:30.000 largest exporter of green sea urchin. Today it's Chile, which 1:02:30.040 --> 1:02:33.440 exports Chilean red urchin and accounts for fifty percent of 1:02:33.480 --> 1:02:37.880 global landings. Overall, global supply has decreased over the last 1:02:37.920 --> 1:02:42.200 twenty years because of storms, decreasing chalp beds, invasive species, 1:02:42.240 --> 1:02:46.960 and overfishing. In nineteen ninety five, for example, the global 1:02:47.080 --> 1:02:51.000 landings total to one hundred and twenty thousand tons. In 1:02:51.040 --> 1:02:55.680 twenty seventeen, it had decreased to seventy five thousand. America 1:02:55.720 --> 1:02:59.000 has two major uni fisheries on the West coast. Santa 1:02:59.040 --> 1:03:02.040 Barbara UNI comes from the giant red sea urchin, and 1:03:02.080 --> 1:03:05.600 it's noted for its large size, coarse texture, and brightly 1:03:05.720 --> 1:03:10.000 sweet flavor. Back East Maine UNI comes from the longer 1:03:10.040 --> 1:03:13.960 spiked green sea urchin in North America. In general, the 1:03:13.960 --> 1:03:17.040 main sources of sea urchin come from the Canadian maritime 1:03:17.280 --> 1:03:20.760 Maine and the Pacific coast from British Columbia to California, 1:03:21.480 --> 1:03:24.400 so green sea urchins are harvested from the Atlantic, while 1:03:24.440 --> 1:03:27.080 the red and purple urchins are harvested from the Pacific. 1:03:27.520 --> 1:03:30.920 These days, domestic supply stays domestic to meet the growing 1:03:30.960 --> 1:03:36.320 demand and ethnic markets. Domestic supplies also supplemented by imported product, 1:03:36.400 --> 1:03:40.480 mostly from Chile during the summer months. On fact in 1:03:40.680 --> 1:03:44.160 New Zealand, Quina, urchins have long been part of the 1:03:44.240 --> 1:03:50.000 traditional Maori diet, so sea urchins have long been fished 1:03:50.040 --> 1:03:53.400 and harvested everywhere where there's basically a coast, from Peru 1:03:53.560 --> 1:03:57.400 to Italy and Korea. Reading about Korea and sea urchin 1:03:57.480 --> 1:03:59.959 harvesting is what led me to learn about the high 1:04:00.480 --> 1:04:03.800 who are female divers in the South Korean province of Jaiju, 1:04:04.240 --> 1:04:08.760 where for centuries, these specially trained female divers have collected 1:04:08.760 --> 1:04:13.440 sea urchins for generations, and traditionally girls start as young 1:04:13.480 --> 1:04:18.080 as eleven to train to die for urchins. Their livelihood 1:04:18.120 --> 1:04:21.360 consists of harvesting a variety of moluks, seaweed, and other 1:04:21.440 --> 1:04:24.360 sea life from the ocean. The Hainu are also known 1:04:24.400 --> 1:04:28.200 for their independent spirit and determination, and they are representative 1:04:28.280 --> 1:04:31.680 of the semi matriarchal family structure of the province of Jaiju. 1:04:32.360 --> 1:04:36.280 Another fun fact. I love a fun fact. You know 1:04:36.320 --> 1:04:38.120 what else loves the fun fact. 1:04:39.920 --> 1:04:41.520 Is it? Is it the sea potato. 1:04:41.560 --> 1:04:43.960 It's the ads, It's the sweep. Oh, the sea potato. 1:04:45.240 --> 1:04:47.760 Every time I think of a seat potato. Feel nice. 1:04:47.840 --> 1:04:49.080 Let me get you like a pleasure. 1:04:50.480 --> 1:05:04.919 Okay, here are some maths and we're back. So we're 1:05:04.960 --> 1:05:09.000 wrapping up this odyssey of going into sea urchins and 1:05:09.160 --> 1:05:13.080 this swimming journey we've had with James. It's not just 1:05:13.160 --> 1:05:15.240 humans who have found a way to get past the 1:05:15.280 --> 1:05:19.800 sea urchins spiky exterior and eat its sex organs. Their 1:05:19.800 --> 1:05:24.160 predators include a wide variety of fish, starfish, crabs, and 1:05:24.200 --> 1:05:27.360 sea otters. Sea otters lie on their backs with sea 1:05:27.440 --> 1:05:29.560 urchins on their chest and they whack them with a 1:05:29.640 --> 1:05:31.040 rock to eat what's inside. 1:05:31.880 --> 1:05:33.400 Yeah, it's a cute thing to see. 1:05:34.360 --> 1:05:36.200 I love sea otters. They are so cute. 1:05:36.200 --> 1:05:37.320 They very adorable. 1:05:38.040 --> 1:05:41.040 Lying on their backs, It's like little guys go to position. 1:05:41.520 --> 1:05:42.920 They keep a little stone with them. 1:05:45.200 --> 1:05:50.280 Yeah, cute, so cute. But sea urchins are actually not 1:05:50.400 --> 1:05:53.840 just used by people solely in cuisine, perhaps because of 1:05:53.880 --> 1:05:57.880 their mysterious shapes. Fossils of sea urchin tests have also 1:05:57.920 --> 1:06:01.560 been historically used as protective amulets to ward off evil 1:06:02.240 --> 1:06:06.880 Apparently in southern England, James, some sea urchin fossils were 1:06:06.880 --> 1:06:11.000 traditionally thought to be thunderbolts frozen in rock, and these 1:06:11.120 --> 1:06:14.400 thunderstones were thought to protect a house from being struck 1:06:14.400 --> 1:06:18.200 by lightning. Interesting, I'm teaching you about your culture. 1:06:18.640 --> 1:06:25.080 Yes, that's it. 1:06:27.200 --> 1:06:30.440 And as James mentioned at the top, climate change is 1:06:30.480 --> 1:06:34.880 of course affecting sea urchins, and climate change is affecting everything. 1:06:35.440 --> 1:06:39.160 Sea urchins are sensitive to changes in their environment. They 1:06:39.160 --> 1:06:42.480 can act as an early warning system for potential problems 1:06:42.480 --> 1:06:46.960 in their ecosystem, as well as rising temperatures. Ocean acidification 1:06:47.280 --> 1:06:50.600 and rising temperatures are probably the biggest long term threat 1:06:50.760 --> 1:06:55.280 to see urchins as a whole. Increasing ocean acidification increases 1:06:55.320 --> 1:06:58.760 the rate at which calcium carbonate dissolves, so as things 1:06:58.800 --> 1:07:01.480 get more acidic, it will likely become harder and harder 1:07:01.480 --> 1:07:04.880 for sea urchins to accumulate enough calcium carbonate to make 1:07:04.960 --> 1:07:07.480 a solid test, and their tests will then get thinner 1:07:07.480 --> 1:07:10.880 and weaker. Experiments in labs have shown that this can 1:07:10.960 --> 1:07:15.400 happen even with very minor increases in a certification. Sea 1:07:15.520 --> 1:07:18.480 urchins in this way can help illustrate why it's so 1:07:18.520 --> 1:07:22.120 important to protect the balance of nature in our already 1:07:22.160 --> 1:07:27.640 threatened ocean ecosystems. So that's the sea urchin. 1:07:28.280 --> 1:07:30.800 Yeah, if you live in like northern or central California, 1:07:31.040 --> 1:07:34.680 as the water gets hotter, the kelp begins to die 1:07:34.760 --> 1:07:37.120 and the dead little pieces of kelp are fed upon 1:07:37.160 --> 1:07:39.600 by the sea urchins, and so the sea urchin population 1:07:39.800 --> 1:07:43.640 has like ballooned and they're taking over the kelp. You 1:07:43.680 --> 1:07:47.360 get what it called like barrens urchin barrens where it 1:07:47.440 --> 1:07:49.720 used to be like a kelp forest. You're amazing. If 1:07:49.720 --> 1:07:51.480 you've never dived in a help forest, you should dive 1:07:51.520 --> 1:07:53.920 in a help forest. I mean, don't fucking just do it. 1:07:53.960 --> 1:07:55.320 If you don't know what you're doing, you'll die. But 1:07:56.800 --> 1:07:59.920 you know, provided you're capable of free diving or scuba diving. 1:08:00.240 --> 1:08:03.720 But now they're gone, right, and it's just beds of urchins, 1:08:04.400 --> 1:08:06.520 which is really sad because the colp obviously is a 1:08:06.560 --> 1:08:09.760 sustaining part of that holy ecosystem. So yeah, be nice 1:08:09.800 --> 1:08:10.600 to the oceans. 1:08:11.360 --> 1:08:12.960 Please be nice. 1:08:13.040 --> 1:08:14.919 You can gather them without even diving. You can gather 1:08:15.000 --> 1:08:17.920 them on the in the intertidal there they'll be going. 1:08:18.040 --> 1:08:19.760 There'll be like getting cliffed out. Right, don't go to 1:08:19.840 --> 1:08:21.599 a place where there is no beach at high tide 1:08:21.640 --> 1:08:23.439 and then hang around there until the tide gets high, 1:08:23.520 --> 1:08:26.280 because I'm going to have to swim then. So don't 1:08:26.280 --> 1:08:28.840 don't be doing that. Be sensible, respect the ocean. Yeah, 1:08:28.880 --> 1:08:31.320 I love a sea urchin. Well, I'll put a picture 1:08:31.320 --> 1:08:34.080 of one I love to I love to show them. 1:08:34.320 --> 1:08:38.680 This is my This is my weird like toxic trait. Yeah, yeah, 1:08:38.720 --> 1:08:42.160 my doxic trait. Yeah. My toxic trait is showing children 1:08:42.360 --> 1:08:52.160 sea urchin like potato. Yeah. Well I I'm in California. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:08:52.160 --> 1:08:54.639 I'm not just walking up to kids and you're whacking 1:08:54.680 --> 1:08:56.719 out my iPhone, Cherie, I'm not weird. 1:08:57.439 --> 1:08:57.599 No. 1:08:58.840 --> 1:09:02.599 If I'm gathering sea urchins on a free dive, then 1:09:02.760 --> 1:09:03.880 I'll come back into the beach. 1:09:03.960 --> 1:09:04.120 Right. 1:09:04.160 --> 1:09:05.519 I have a little body board and I have a 1:09:05.560 --> 1:09:07.960 bag on it, but the urchin's in there. I'm sure 1:09:08.040 --> 1:09:08.760 kids love that. 1:09:09.560 --> 1:09:12.880 I mean, I remember like going to those like aquariums 1:09:12.880 --> 1:09:15.080 where you stick your hand in the water as a child, 1:09:15.200 --> 1:09:17.679 you don't know any better, and like the little starfish 1:09:17.720 --> 1:09:19.720 and everything. That was the most interesting part. So I'm 1:09:19.760 --> 1:09:21.840 sure the kids love that shit. 1:09:22.400 --> 1:09:23.360 Kids love a creature. 1:09:23.680 --> 1:09:26.840 Yeah, you learn anything about sea urchins. 1:09:26.439 --> 1:09:27.080 I learned a lot. 1:09:27.160 --> 1:09:29.320 Yeah, I don't awful lot about it, Like I didn't 1:09:29.320 --> 1:09:32.280 know anything about these these excited about these Korean ladies. 1:09:32.320 --> 1:09:33.519 Pretty going to google that later. 1:09:33.720 --> 1:09:35.920 Yeah, I feel like they des are more of a 1:09:35.960 --> 1:09:39.880 deep dive. I'm intended magic incredible. 1:09:41.240 --> 1:09:44.720 Maybe there'll be my next podcast series. I'll there. I've 1:09:44.720 --> 1:09:47.040 contrived ways to free dive on when I went free 1:09:47.080 --> 1:09:49.720 diving a lot in the Marshall Islands at six. I'm 1:09:49.720 --> 1:09:51.840 stoked for iHeartRadio to pay for me to go free 1:09:51.840 --> 1:09:52.599 diving somewhere else. 1:09:53.240 --> 1:09:57.800 Advocate for that petition, write a lot union involved anyway. 1:09:58.000 --> 1:10:01.960 That's this episode of it could happen here and until 1:10:02.000 --> 1:10:06.519 next time. Important pickup alert, We're back. James alerted me 1:10:06.600 --> 1:10:10.280 to a fact that was too important to not include 1:10:10.280 --> 1:10:12.599 in this episode. James, what did I miss? 1:10:13.080 --> 1:10:16.519 What you're missuring was the eighth wonder of the world, 1:10:16.680 --> 1:10:20.479 which is sea urchins wearing little hats. 1:10:21.640 --> 1:10:24.280 That's right, folks, see urchins wearing little hats. 1:10:24.479 --> 1:10:26.479 Yeah, this is where we fact check all our reporting 1:10:26.600 --> 1:10:31.200 exactly to bring you the cutting edge shear professional journalism. 1:10:31.640 --> 1:10:35.040 So what are we talking about? We talked about tube feet, right. 1:10:35.360 --> 1:10:38.320 Urchins move using their little tube feet, and they contract 1:10:38.360 --> 1:10:41.760 small muscles that force water into the tube foot to 1:10:41.840 --> 1:10:44.519 take each step, and the end of each tube foot 1:10:44.560 --> 1:10:47.160 is very, very sticky. They used to be described as 1:10:47.160 --> 1:10:50.519 suction cups, but now researchers are thinking of them more 1:10:50.520 --> 1:10:54.280 as like a bioadhesive rather than a suction that sticks 1:10:54.320 --> 1:10:57.479 to things, including the floor. And they use the stick 1:10:57.479 --> 1:10:59.560 he tube feet to pick up and hold on to 1:10:59.800 --> 1:11:05.759 raw shells, golf balls, and other little treasures, treasures including 1:11:05.800 --> 1:11:11.080 tiny hats. Behaviorally, collogists call urchin hats quote unquote covering behavior. 1:11:11.200 --> 1:11:12.720 They don't call the hats that, but they call the 1:11:12.760 --> 1:11:16.320 act of them covering themselves covering behavior. That name is 1:11:16.360 --> 1:11:20.400 related to the first and most prevalent hypothesis about this phenomena, 1:11:20.840 --> 1:11:24.000 that the urchins are covering themselves to provide shelter from 1:11:24.320 --> 1:11:28.240 light predators or maybe even both. There are experiments which 1:11:28.280 --> 1:11:32.760 confirm the light hypothesis. Researchers in Ireland found that when 1:11:32.760 --> 1:11:36.160 the urchins were exposed to the full spectrum of UV light, 1:11:36.520 --> 1:11:39.000 they would pick up their little hats and or move 1:11:39.120 --> 1:11:42.000 to a shady corner of their tanks in order to 1:11:42.040 --> 1:11:46.840 avoid harmful UV radiation. Around the same time of these findings, 1:11:47.160 --> 1:11:51.040 another scientist in California was studying the covering behavior of 1:11:51.280 --> 1:11:55.919 Pacific rose flower urchins. The rose urchin study wasn't conducted 1:11:55.920 --> 1:11:59.120 in a lab. Instead, the urchin behavior was observed in 1:11:59.160 --> 1:12:01.880 their natural habitat, and what they found was that the 1:12:01.960 --> 1:12:05.439 sample site with the greatest wave energy had the most 1:12:05.479 --> 1:12:10.120 covering behavior among the urchins. So what is it sun 1:12:10.200 --> 1:12:13.639 safety or is it like a protective gear like seat 1:12:13.640 --> 1:12:16.720 belts or kneepads. Are they protecting themselves from currents and 1:12:16.800 --> 1:12:19.679 wave damage instead of floating away? Or are they afraid 1:12:19.680 --> 1:12:24.439 of the sun? Researchers have tested several factors simultaneously to 1:12:24.520 --> 1:12:27.639 trace the covering behavior to its source. In the lab, 1:12:27.880 --> 1:12:31.920 green urchins were exposed to common predators, wave surges and 1:12:32.040 --> 1:12:35.200 algae blades, as well as sunlight, and as it turns out, 1:12:35.520 --> 1:12:40.080 predators were a bust. Their presence had no significant impact 1:12:40.280 --> 1:12:43.480 on the rate of covering behavior, so it's not necessarily 1:12:43.520 --> 1:12:48.000 camouflaged for all urchins, and similarly to how sea stars 1:12:48.080 --> 1:12:53.519 can regenerate lost arms, urchins are also constantly regenerating loss 1:12:53.560 --> 1:12:57.720 and broken spines. But this regeneration takes energy, and so 1:12:58.240 --> 1:13:01.080 for some urchins it might be a safer bet, particularly 1:13:01.120 --> 1:13:05.120 for a small urchin who is vulnerable to dislodgment and damage, 1:13:05.320 --> 1:13:07.439 to pick up some extra weight and put on a 1:13:07.479 --> 1:13:10.679 little sun protection at the same time. And of course, 1:13:10.680 --> 1:13:14.280 because humans are humans. Once three D printing came along, 1:13:14.479 --> 1:13:17.599 people started making sea urchins tiny little urchin hats, which 1:13:17.640 --> 1:13:19.880 is why I keep calling them hats, because now they 1:13:19.880 --> 1:13:22.360 are hats and people have them in aquariums or in 1:13:22.439 --> 1:13:26.280 their personal urchin tank, because sure enough, these urchins will 1:13:26.280 --> 1:13:28.720 skitter along and pick these hats up and put them 1:13:28.760 --> 1:13:31.040 on their head, which we now know is actually their butt, 1:13:31.160 --> 1:13:35.200 but they put them on the top of themselves. Not 1:13:35.320 --> 1:13:38.679 all urchins, right, little ass hat. 1:13:40.520 --> 1:13:44.280 That's funny, urchin ass hat. What a great band it 1:13:44.400 --> 1:13:44.720 could be. 1:13:44.880 --> 1:13:45.840 That's a great band name. 1:13:46.000 --> 1:13:47.960 Yeah yeah, if you are listening and in need of 1:13:47.960 --> 1:13:51.439 a sort of like a you're welcome, yeah, like Blink 1:13:51.479 --> 1:13:53.320 one eight two, that kind of music. I think that's 1:13:53.320 --> 1:13:54.799 what I associate with urchin asshole. 1:13:54.800 --> 1:13:59.240 I agree urchin asset. Not all urchins wear hats and 1:13:59.280 --> 1:14:01.920 a Canadian state he found that smaller urchins are the 1:14:01.920 --> 1:14:04.280 ones that are more likely to cover up, and the 1:14:04.439 --> 1:14:07.760 logic behind their covering behavior it seems to depend, as 1:14:07.760 --> 1:14:10.559 I said, on the species of urchin and the environment 1:14:10.640 --> 1:14:13.920 day in habit So out in more tropical regions, the 1:14:14.040 --> 1:14:17.479 collector urchin as it's called it may be protecting itself 1:14:17.520 --> 1:14:20.479 from the sun and these urchins can be found in 1:14:20.600 --> 1:14:24.680 shallow waters off of Hawaii, the Indo Pacific in the Bahamas, 1:14:24.760 --> 1:14:28.240 and this is where they're exposed to a lot of sunlight. Meanwhile, 1:14:28.360 --> 1:14:32.440 researchers think that the green sea urchin uses its adornments 1:14:32.479 --> 1:14:35.960 to weigh itself down, and this species tends to live 1:14:36.040 --> 1:14:39.000 in the shallow waters of the northern Atlantic and Pacific 1:14:39.000 --> 1:14:43.599 Oceans where it gets constantly battered by waves. Wherever there 1:14:43.640 --> 1:14:46.519 is a lot of wave activity, the urchin heavily covers 1:14:46.640 --> 1:14:49.360 up the top and the sides of its body with 1:14:49.520 --> 1:14:52.679 whatever it can find, which helps make it heavy enough 1:14:52.720 --> 1:14:57.440 to avoid getting swept away. And then further south, Antarctic 1:14:57.600 --> 1:15:00.080 urchins have been found to cover themselves as a w 1:15:00.280 --> 1:15:04.680 to avoid predators. Their main predators are king crabs and 1:15:04.800 --> 1:15:08.280 c aneemies, and researchers found that they were more likely 1:15:08.360 --> 1:15:11.560 to put on coverings when predators were around. In a 1:15:11.640 --> 1:15:14.960 lab experiment, another species of urchin was more likely to 1:15:15.000 --> 1:15:17.679 survive being exposed to a predator if it was given 1:15:17.720 --> 1:15:21.679 shells to cover itself, So these decorations may be type 1:15:21.680 --> 1:15:25.679 of camouflaged to keep some urchins from being found and eaten, 1:15:25.920 --> 1:15:30.400 not necessarily all urchins. And then there's the Kina, a 1:15:30.479 --> 1:15:34.479 large urchin found in New Zealand. This urchin seems to 1:15:34.600 --> 1:15:37.240 use the item that it collected as a food source. 1:15:37.720 --> 1:15:41.240 Researchers found that this species was covering itself even in 1:15:41.360 --> 1:15:44.240 the dark, which suggested that it wasn't trying to protect 1:15:44.280 --> 1:15:47.799 itself from sunlight, and its predators don't rely on site 1:15:47.840 --> 1:15:51.200 to find their prey, so camouflaging itself would be pointless. 1:15:52.040 --> 1:15:54.960 In a field study, they found that these urchins were 1:15:55.000 --> 1:15:58.840 carrying algae aka a source of their little urchin food 1:15:59.439 --> 1:16:03.479 and basically carrying around like a snack bag or a 1:16:03.520 --> 1:16:07.559 fridge for themselves, which can be helpful because these urchins 1:16:07.640 --> 1:16:10.360 might not always have a lot of algae around for grazing. 1:16:10.960 --> 1:16:13.479 So now you know about little hats and the little 1:16:13.520 --> 1:16:16.120 things that urchins do to cover themselves and collect things. 1:16:16.600 --> 1:16:21.439 I didn't realize that it was more than just covering 1:16:21.479 --> 1:16:25.479 their little ass hats or ass heads rather, but yeah, 1:16:25.479 --> 1:16:27.600 I thought it was really interesting and good good on 1:16:27.760 --> 1:16:31.360 James to remind us to talk about urchan hats. 1:16:31.680 --> 1:16:34.360 Yeah, great, many things that I've learned recently. Got a 1:16:34.400 --> 1:16:37.920 TikTok account, so I'm learning a lot. Whoa yeah, And 1:16:38.000 --> 1:16:40.519 it's not like I'm not I'm not tiktoking, and I 1:16:40.600 --> 1:16:44.280 just want to be extremely clear about this. I got 1:16:44.280 --> 1:16:45.920 it because lots of the folks in me and I 1:16:46.040 --> 1:16:49.120 used TikTok to you. Oh nice tip to communicate with 1:16:49.160 --> 1:16:51.800 the world. So I've been tiktoking and I've learned a lot, 1:16:51.920 --> 1:16:55.200 learning a lot about Taylor Swift and Olivia and chids 1:16:55.240 --> 1:16:56.120 that's not necessary. 1:16:56.880 --> 1:17:01.519 Thank you James for joining me on this swimming journey 1:17:01.840 --> 1:17:07.040 of urchin facts and things. I when you suggested talking 1:17:07.040 --> 1:17:10.160 about the urchins, I did not expect them to be 1:17:10.200 --> 1:17:13.240 so cute and so interesting, So thank you for that. 1:17:14.000 --> 1:17:18.439 And if you have an urchin around, go get a 1:17:18.479 --> 1:17:20.759 little hat, be its little buddy. 1:17:21.120 --> 1:17:24.759 Get on Etsy, I've just been looking. Oh no, go on, Etsy, 1:17:25.000 --> 1:17:27.000 gonta have Viking. I think that was one's the. 1:17:27.080 --> 1:17:31.720 Most that's funny anyway. Okay, that's now the end of 1:17:31.720 --> 1:17:51.640 this episode, so you're welcome for this update and uh bye. 1:17:52.400 --> 1:17:55.559 Welcome zikaap Here, a podcast that is droning under the 1:17:55.600 --> 1:18:00.200 oppression of whoever keeps changing the stupid zoom interface. It's 1:18:00.240 --> 1:18:03.599 different every time. It always gets worse. It never gets better. 1:18:03.840 --> 1:18:04.639 Please stop. 1:18:06.520 --> 1:18:09.920 We had trads for zoom zoom layout. 1:18:10.640 --> 1:18:14.120 Just get it, get it one time, put the recording 1:18:14.120 --> 1:18:16.439 thing on the stupid panel on the bottom, and then 1:18:16.560 --> 1:18:18.040 never change it. 1:18:18.040 --> 1:18:19.400 It simply never gets better. 1:18:20.160 --> 1:18:24.040 H Yeah, this is be a who's extremely annoyed at 1:18:24.479 --> 1:18:26.840 zoom with me is javes. 1:18:27.320 --> 1:18:30.120 Yep, also extremely annoyed at zoom high just in solidarity 1:18:30.160 --> 1:18:34.719 with Mia fucking yeah, and also also extremely annoyed. 1:18:34.800 --> 1:18:38.479 Right now is the man stages the world's worst coup 1:18:39.120 --> 1:18:40.439 ask to report to prison. 1:18:41.080 --> 1:18:43.800 I don't think we can call it the world's worst coupa. 1:18:44.120 --> 1:18:46.840 That's a bold claim. You're forgetting Silver Corp. 1:18:47.520 --> 1:18:51.120 No, So, okay, here's the thing about Silver Corp. Right, 1:18:51.439 --> 1:18:55.640 the guys who defeated Silver Corp. Had guns, Yeah, but 1:18:55.680 --> 1:18:58.200 Silver Corp didn't. They had BB guns. 1:18:58.479 --> 1:18:58.759 Yeah. 1:18:58.800 --> 1:19:02.280 But here's the thing, right they they those guys again, 1:19:02.439 --> 1:19:04.720 those guys did not have real guns. Defeated by guys 1:19:04.760 --> 1:19:07.840 with guns. These guys had guns. They had a lot 1:19:07.920 --> 1:19:12.680 of guns. They were defeated by people with flags. 1:19:13.640 --> 1:19:16.920 Yeah. Yeah, and a guy standing in a doorway being like, no, 1:19:17.000 --> 1:19:21.519 you can't come in, go home? You know, so we 1:19:21.680 --> 1:19:22.200 we we are. 1:19:22.600 --> 1:19:25.160 I genuinely believe this is the worst cup I've ever 1:19:25.160 --> 1:19:27.320 seen in my entire life. And you know, we've lived 1:19:27.320 --> 1:19:30.320 through Venezuela one I I I distinctly remember stepping out 1:19:30.320 --> 1:19:32.960 of a post office and checking my phone and getting 1:19:33.000 --> 1:19:35.920 eighteen messages from my friends that said, do you do you? 1:19:35.960 --> 1:19:38.320 What do you know about the coup and Turkey? That 1:19:38.439 --> 1:19:39.800 was a terrible coup. 1:19:40.240 --> 1:19:43.240 Was they they could have they could have just saved 1:19:43.320 --> 1:19:45.120 us all this trouble of shot aired when Douf a 1:19:45.160 --> 1:19:47.639 jet fighter, But they didn't, you know, And there's there's 1:19:47.640 --> 1:19:49.160 been plenty of bad ones. There was that that coup 1:19:49.200 --> 1:19:53.440 recently in the Democratic public at the congo To fiasco. Yeah, hilariously, 1:19:53.680 --> 1:19:56.760 this coup and Bolivia recovering today happened exactly one year 1:19:56.800 --> 1:20:00.240 and three days after the March of the Wagner Core. 1:20:01.320 --> 1:20:03.320 Oh yeah, I've got to forgot about that one? 1:20:03.560 --> 1:20:03.960 What if? 1:20:04.160 --> 1:20:04.680 Wow? 1:20:05.080 --> 1:20:06.960 Yeah, Well we wanted to try it. 1:20:07.240 --> 1:20:10.160 Guys, if you believe you can achieve give it a 1:20:10.200 --> 1:20:12.479 go to a coup if you want to, why not 1:20:12.640 --> 1:20:13.720 gonna trump pee try one? 1:20:13.760 --> 1:20:14.080 Did what? 1:20:14.160 --> 1:20:14.880 Very well? Yeah? 1:20:15.000 --> 1:20:17.280 Yeah, I mean we really, I mean I also, I mean, 1:20:17.280 --> 1:20:22.000 we can't forget January ninth, even the the well, I don't, 1:20:22.000 --> 1:20:24.880 I don't because January sixth was already farce, but like 1:20:25.080 --> 1:20:27.719 we forgot the farcest, farst version of it in Brazil. 1:20:29.000 --> 1:20:32.920 Yeah, yea, even there. Yeah yeah, they owed a building coupe. 1:20:33.800 --> 1:20:37.759 Yeah, lots of lots of very stupid cues, but this 1:20:37.760 --> 1:20:40.639 this is probably the worst one. And so we're going 1:20:40.680 --> 1:20:43.280 to be explaining sort of what happened. But the thing 1:20:43.360 --> 1:20:46.920 about this coupe is that in order to understand what's 1:20:47.000 --> 1:20:52.600 happening with this coup, we have to get through I 1:20:52.640 --> 1:20:55.240 think a part of oblivion history that has not been 1:20:56.680 --> 1:21:01.120 really well understood or talk on the left, which is 1:21:01.120 --> 1:21:03.519 effectively what happened in Bolivia. 1:21:04.640 --> 1:21:06.280 After the coup in twenty nineteen. 1:21:07.760 --> 1:21:09.960 I think I think people sort of know that there 1:21:10.000 --> 1:21:14.400 was a coup and that it got overturned, but coma 1:21:14.520 --> 1:21:17.080 that was sort of the point at which which the 1:21:17.360 --> 1:21:20.120 sort of Anglo media and like the sort of press 1:21:20.120 --> 1:21:22.479 that hits the left here kind of just took off. 1:21:23.160 --> 1:21:25.840 So you have your sort of twenty nineteen coup. The 1:21:25.880 --> 1:21:28.519 place where sort of everything getting lost kind of starts 1:21:28.640 --> 1:21:29.000 is that. 1:21:29.640 --> 1:21:30.479 So there's this coup. 1:21:30.760 --> 1:21:33.640 The left sort of response to the coup is not 1:21:33.880 --> 1:21:37.080 very strong because the sort of social movements have been 1:21:37.120 --> 1:21:41.160 hallowed out by their sort of incorporation into the Bolivian state, 1:21:41.760 --> 1:21:43.960 so they don't they sort of just don't have the 1:21:44.120 --> 1:21:50.280 juice to really kind of you know, roll this coup back. 1:21:51.040 --> 1:21:53.400 This is this is makes basically this is the twenty 1:21:53.479 --> 1:21:56.920 nineteen coup, not the twenty twenty four coup. Yeah, and 1:21:56.920 --> 1:21:59.280 you know the thing about the twenty nineteen coup that 1:21:59.320 --> 1:22:00.800 makes it very different from this one is that that 1:22:00.800 --> 1:22:03.120 one was you know, there was a broad base of 1:22:03.160 --> 1:22:06.320 support for this right in this sort of in this 1:22:06.400 --> 1:22:08.360 sort of like far right out of Santa Cruz and 1:22:08.439 --> 1:22:10.800 also out of sort of like like more moderate center 1:22:10.920 --> 1:22:15.040 right factions. So you know, there are sort of large 1:22:15.439 --> 1:22:17.400 street with favor of this. This is not true if 1:22:17.760 --> 1:22:18.800 mose recent. 1:22:18.600 --> 1:22:21.439 One, yeah, absolutely not. 1:22:22.360 --> 1:22:26.120 Yeah, but you know, by by by twenty twenty, as 1:22:26.160 --> 1:22:30.040 twenty twenty is sort of progressing. A Anya's coup government is 1:22:30.080 --> 1:22:33.519 a fiasco. Their management of COVID is just terrible, enormous 1:22:33.560 --> 1:22:35.320 numbers of deaths. I mean actually I mean not by 1:22:35.439 --> 1:22:39.320 American standards, I guess, but you know, really really mismanaged. 1:22:39.400 --> 1:22:42.360 I mean my I have friends there who were talking 1:22:42.360 --> 1:22:44.400 about how if you were going to the hospital and 1:22:44.439 --> 1:22:47.479 you needed to use like a piece of medical equipment, 1:22:47.520 --> 1:22:50.240 you had to buy the medical equipment or a part 1:22:50.280 --> 1:22:51.920 to fix the machine and then show up to the 1:22:51.960 --> 1:22:54.120 hospital with the part because they couldn't order it. 1:22:54.880 --> 1:22:57.599 Yeah. I've yeah, I've seen that in a few places 1:22:57.640 --> 1:22:59.080 in the world. It's never never a good time. 1:22:59.520 --> 1:23:01.599 Yeah, it's it's not good. It was a real shit show. 1:23:01.680 --> 1:23:06.040 And by By sort of I think about September, early 1:23:06.080 --> 1:23:10.160 September twenty ninth of twenty twenty, there are the left 1:23:10.160 --> 1:23:12.200 has sort of gotten it shipped together and there are 1:23:12.240 --> 1:23:16.200 these this massive set of roadblocks. Bolivian Blivion social politics 1:23:16.240 --> 1:23:19.080 tends to sort of be about roadblocks because you know, 1:23:19.240 --> 1:23:21.600 country a lot of mountains, a lot of roads you 1:23:21.640 --> 1:23:24.280 can very easily block off and then prevent anything from 1:23:24.320 --> 1:23:27.120 you know, for example, entering a city. 1:23:27.200 --> 1:23:28.080 Yep, good idea. 1:23:28.120 --> 1:23:31.160 So they're they're able to just basically shut down the 1:23:31.200 --> 1:23:33.479 Blivion economy. The government is once again on the Vergia 1:23:33.520 --> 1:23:36.360 collapse and once again and we'll get to the first 1:23:36.360 --> 1:23:39.320 time this happened, but even Morallies once again sort of 1:23:39.360 --> 1:23:41.640 pulls the supporters off of the barricade so he can 1:23:41.680 --> 1:23:45.519 go win an election rather than you know, attempt to 1:23:45.560 --> 1:23:47.439 just bring down the sort of coup government. 1:23:48.880 --> 1:23:50.519 So you know that eventually happens. 1:23:50.560 --> 1:23:54.200 The government is forced to hold elections because you know, 1:23:54.439 --> 1:23:58.360 they've they've lost control of the country, and the MS 1:23:58.479 --> 1:24:01.840 takes you know, wins this election by overwhelming margins. The 1:24:01.880 --> 1:24:04.200 MAS is even Morales' party, it's the sort of like 1:24:04.240 --> 1:24:04.760 party of. 1:24:04.720 --> 1:24:08.160 The oblivion Left. But yeah, the guy comes to the power. 1:24:08.160 --> 1:24:08.720 As Lewis R. 1:24:08.760 --> 1:24:12.759 Say, he's an interesting figure because he is kind of 1:24:13.640 --> 1:24:15.160 what we're going to get more into sort. 1:24:14.960 --> 1:24:18.320 Of what the MAS is in a bit. But he 1:24:18.479 --> 1:24:20.759 is from a kind of right wing of the party 1:24:20.760 --> 1:24:25.200 that's not talked about very much. Yeah, he he is. 1:24:25.200 --> 1:24:28.160 A you know he's not a guy who comes from 1:24:28.360 --> 1:24:30.320 the social movements and in the way that sort of 1:24:30.360 --> 1:24:32.559 Morales did like he was even Moreles was a guy 1:24:32.600 --> 1:24:34.200 from the co He was like the president of the 1:24:34.240 --> 1:24:38.080 coca growers Union. Arsay is a banker. He's an an 1:24:38.120 --> 1:24:41.439 economist and a banker. He comes out of the Central 1:24:41.439 --> 1:24:43.160 Bank of Bolivia and. 1:24:43.120 --> 1:24:45.240 He he has had. 1:24:45.160 --> 1:24:49.080 Been kind of the guy running Bolivian economic policy. But 1:24:49.080 --> 1:24:51.280 but he is from the developmentalist wing of the party, 1:24:51.280 --> 1:24:53.479 which means he is effectively from the wing of the 1:24:53.520 --> 1:24:57.840 party that are the kind of like center left capitalists 1:24:58.520 --> 1:25:01.760 that the social moments kind of allied themselves to under 1:25:01.760 --> 1:25:04.040 Moralees in order to do this sort of national economic 1:25:04.080 --> 1:25:06.200 development policy. So these are a lot of these are 1:25:06.200 --> 1:25:10.519 a lot of mining sector guys. These are a very 1:25:10.520 --> 1:25:15.880 specific sort of cadra of these central bank guys, you know. 1:25:16.080 --> 1:25:17.280 And I think this is the part. 1:25:17.400 --> 1:25:21.080 The thing about the MS that's kind of relevant here 1:25:21.120 --> 1:25:23.439 is that it usually also has a base support among 1:25:23.479 --> 1:25:25.080 people you wouldn't expect. I mean, there's a lot of 1:25:25.080 --> 1:25:28.320 small business owners who support them, because you know, the 1:25:28.400 --> 1:25:31.400 maas really did for most of the time they've been 1:25:31.400 --> 1:25:34.280 in power preside over sort of astonishing economic growth. They 1:25:34.320 --> 1:25:36.519 sort of did this by marrying these social movements to 1:25:37.720 --> 1:25:40.400 this kind of national bourgeoisie developmentalis faction. 1:25:41.080 --> 1:25:41.320 Yeah. 1:25:41.360 --> 1:25:43.880 And the other thing that that the MAAS sort of 1:25:43.880 --> 1:25:46.280 does in the period between when they come back to 1:25:46.320 --> 1:25:49.639 power in late twenty twenty twenty twenty one and now 1:25:49.840 --> 1:25:51.760 is they do they actually go after the people who 1:25:51.760 --> 1:25:54.120 did the coup, right, and yes, he was the previous 1:25:54.160 --> 1:25:56.639 president is just in prison for helping you do the coup. 1:25:57.120 --> 1:26:02.320 The other big person who's been arrested is Luis Fernando Camacho, 1:26:02.479 --> 1:26:05.879 who is a man who, in one hundred percent complete 1:26:05.960 --> 1:26:12.880 seriousness calls himself Basho Camacho. So that's that's a sign, Yeah, 1:26:12.920 --> 1:26:14.559 that that that's an odication of who this guy is, 1:26:14.560 --> 1:26:21.120 which is he is a really fanatical, really fanatical Christian nationalist. 1:26:21.479 --> 1:26:23.440 He's playing a very similar. 1:26:23.120 --> 1:26:25.880 Role to I mean, actually, I think even even in 1:26:25.880 --> 1:26:27.519 a lot of ways sort of more radical role to 1:26:27.520 --> 1:26:32.680 what Bolsonaro played in Brazil, where Camasho in Bolivia is 1:26:32.720 --> 1:26:35.360 this kind of he he's the guy who's rallied both 1:26:35.400 --> 1:26:39.840 sort of Evangelicalism and Catholicism, of those rallied both of 1:26:39.880 --> 1:26:43.520 them into this sort of virulent and and and specifically 1:26:43.640 --> 1:26:49.560 in Bolivia, anti indigenous sort of political force. The the 1:26:49.840 --> 1:26:52.840 twenty nineteen coup is seen in very very explicitly is 1:26:52.880 --> 1:26:55.960 seen in religious terms. Both Idias and Cabacho talk about 1:26:55.960 --> 1:26:58.320 how like the word of God is back at the 1:26:58.360 --> 1:27:01.280 capitol and the but like all of the sort of 1:27:01.280 --> 1:27:03.720 indigenous various indigenous stuff is just never going to come back. 1:27:04.560 --> 1:27:08.400 So Kamacho gets arrested in twenty twenty two for you know, 1:27:08.640 --> 1:27:12.080 doing this coup, and this sets off so he, by 1:27:12.080 --> 1:27:14.160 the way, like is the governor of the state of 1:27:14.160 --> 1:27:17.200 Santa Cruz, and this sets off a bunch of like 1:27:17.760 --> 1:27:20.280 a right wing general strike, a bunch of riots, like 1:27:20.439 --> 1:27:24.200 hundreds of people are injured in street fighting between his 1:27:24.320 --> 1:27:28.240 sort of fanatics and everyone else in the country. It 1:27:28.240 --> 1:27:30.960 does an enormous amount of economic damage. It sets off 1:27:30.960 --> 1:27:34.960 sort of roadblocks the government, I mean Kamacho I think 1:27:34.960 --> 1:27:37.760 also is still in prison, but it kind of, you know, 1:27:37.800 --> 1:27:40.759 the government's kind of forced to make concessions to these people. 1:27:41.600 --> 1:27:45.360 So you know, the whole the whole sort of ur say, 1:27:45.439 --> 1:27:48.559 government is kind of on shaky footing from the beginning. 1:27:49.200 --> 1:27:53.320 And all of this is before the Bolivian economy really 1:27:53.400 --> 1:27:57.200 hits the ship. But before before we get to the 1:27:57.200 --> 1:27:59.519 Bolivian economy, do you know what else hits the ship? 1:28:00.479 --> 1:28:01.599 Oh uh? 1:28:02.240 --> 1:28:05.920 Is it the meal kit preparation delivery service that we 1:28:05.960 --> 1:28:11.479 are not allowed to mention for leader reasons. It is, yes, yeah, yes, yeah, 1:28:11.520 --> 1:28:13.559 you'll be pooping your brains out. Don't do it. 1:28:24.479 --> 1:28:26.920 We are back, so let's talk about the other thing 1:28:26.960 --> 1:28:28.120 that's happening in Bolivia. 1:28:28.479 --> 1:28:29.599 Well, okay, see other. 1:28:29.479 --> 1:28:32.440 Thing, the one of the four other things that's reppening 1:28:32.520 --> 1:28:39.520 in Bolivia, and that is the real. 1:28:39.120 --> 1:28:41.599 Sort of collapse of the Bolivian economy. 1:28:42.880 --> 1:28:46.679 So the Bolivian economy Blivia has been kind of different 1:28:46.760 --> 1:28:49.639 from the rest of the sort of kind of left wing, 1:28:49.760 --> 1:28:52.439 pink tied governments that were elected in the in the 1:28:52.439 --> 1:28:55.760 in the sort of two thousands era sort of anti 1:28:55.760 --> 1:29:00.360 globalization politics. Most of those countries' economies employed did a 1:29:00.400 --> 1:29:02.880 long time ago, like Venezuela is sort of obviously the 1:29:02.880 --> 1:29:05.559 most famous case, but all of these economies fell apart 1:29:05.600 --> 1:29:08.040 because these were all economies based on the commodity boom. 1:29:08.040 --> 1:29:09.080 We've talked about this in some of. 1:29:09.000 --> 1:29:12.880 Our Brazil episodes, but the very short version is that 1:29:12.920 --> 1:29:15.320 a lot of a lot of countries that produce sort 1:29:15.320 --> 1:29:17.800 of primary commodities, so like you know, your copper, your 1:29:18.040 --> 1:29:22.840 sort of your natural gas, you know, I mean things 1:29:22.840 --> 1:29:26.280 like soybeans to kind of fall in this category. You know, 1:29:26.360 --> 1:29:28.639 so you're you're you're sort of minding stuff, or you're 1:29:28.680 --> 1:29:30.680 some some of you some of your farming stuff. All 1:29:30.720 --> 1:29:37.040 of these sort of industrial input primary commodity stuff all 1:29:37.080 --> 1:29:40.360 got you know, massive price spikes in early two thousands 1:29:40.400 --> 1:29:43.639 because the Chinese economy had integrated into into the rest 1:29:43.640 --> 1:29:46.200 of the world economy fully by you know, joining the 1:29:46.720 --> 1:29:49.800 joining the World Trade Organization, and this set off this 1:29:49.920 --> 1:29:51.400 massive industrialization boom in. 1:29:51.439 --> 1:29:53.559 China, and you know, the Chinese. 1:29:53.760 --> 1:29:57.639 The the levels of sort of demand that this induces 1:29:57.720 --> 1:30:00.879 is unbelievable because Chinese economic growth in that period is unreal, 1:30:00.960 --> 1:30:03.800 and it's it's economic growth that is unreal in a 1:30:03.800 --> 1:30:07.040 country with a billion people in it. So this produced 1:30:07.040 --> 1:30:10.160 a kind of shock of demand for all of these 1:30:10.200 --> 1:30:14.760 sort of mineral resources that was not entirely unprecedented, but 1:30:16.240 --> 1:30:18.880 enormously large, and also allowed all of these sort of 1:30:18.880 --> 1:30:23.920 social democratic economies to you know, kind of paper over 1:30:24.200 --> 1:30:27.360 the inherent contradictions of their base being both capitalists and 1:30:27.479 --> 1:30:30.840 also a bunch of like unions by there just sort 1:30:30.840 --> 1:30:33.640 of being enough state revenue from all of these all 1:30:33.640 --> 1:30:36.439 of these exports to just kind of buy everyone off. 1:30:36.280 --> 1:30:38.040 Of paper everything clantalism. 1:30:38.960 --> 1:30:42.559 Yeah, yeah, and that stops working when the economy goes under. 1:30:42.560 --> 1:30:45.240 But Bolivia's economy does a lot better than the rest 1:30:45.240 --> 1:30:46.759 of the economies in the region. 1:30:46.840 --> 1:30:48.320 There are there are a lot of reasons for this. 1:30:48.400 --> 1:30:51.120 Part of it is that you know, are say, who 1:30:51.120 --> 1:30:53.960 is running the economy of Bolivia in the sort of 1:30:53.960 --> 1:30:56.519 the period, like post two thousand and eight period, when 1:30:56.560 --> 1:31:00.280 everyone else economies are collapsing. He is genuinely doing some 1:31:00.320 --> 1:31:05.760 pretty interesting macroeconomic stuff. Also, the other thing that's going 1:31:05.760 --> 1:31:09.479 on is that Bolivia main expert and people. Okay, so 1:31:09.680 --> 1:31:11.559 people in the US tend to think of Bolivia as 1:31:11.560 --> 1:31:15.080 a country that produces lithium. That's not true. That might 1:31:15.160 --> 1:31:17.720 be true maybe thirty years in the future that will 1:31:17.760 --> 1:31:21.400 be Bolivia's primary export. But Bolivia's primary export for the 1:31:21.439 --> 1:31:25.880 last two decades has been natural gas, and natural gas 1:31:25.920 --> 1:31:28.200 prices didn't quite do the same thing that sort of 1:31:28.280 --> 1:31:31.400 oil prices did that kind of imploded the Venezuelan economy. Yeah, 1:31:32.560 --> 1:31:37.080 and so through sort of like economic management and these 1:31:37.080 --> 1:31:41.400 sort of political alliances, and you know, the high price 1:31:41.439 --> 1:31:45.040 in natural gas, the Bolivian economy has sort of been fine. Unfortunately, 1:31:45.040 --> 1:31:47.960 what's happening right now is that Bolivia is running out 1:31:47.960 --> 1:31:50.759 of natural gas. And because it's running out of natural gas, 1:31:51.280 --> 1:31:54.000 and also because their economy is an export based economy 1:31:54.000 --> 1:31:55.520 based on natural gas. 1:31:55.479 --> 1:31:58.719 Not so good, nusuge good vibes. Yeah, it's very bad. 1:31:58.760 --> 1:32:01.479 The entire economy is full, all your part because you 1:32:01.479 --> 1:32:04.000 know this this is a very very classic kind of 1:32:04.040 --> 1:32:07.559 economic crisis. You know, the econdoic crisis are having is 1:32:07.600 --> 1:32:09.960 I'm not saying it described as a balance of payments crisis, 1:32:10.000 --> 1:32:12.320 but that's what it is, which is that the Oblivion 1:32:12.360 --> 1:32:16.640 economy works on buying things with American dollars. So you know, 1:32:16.840 --> 1:32:18.599 like a lot of the businesses in the country involved 1:32:18.600 --> 1:32:21.280 are sort of import businesses, right, you know, I mean 1:32:21.400 --> 1:32:23.879 I know people who run businesses like this in Bolivia 1:32:23.920 --> 1:32:29.519 where you know, you're inputting shoes or like motors, yeah, 1:32:30.000 --> 1:32:31.920 stuff like that, and you buy them with American dollars 1:32:31.920 --> 1:32:33.400 and you sell them in Bolivia. But the thing is 1:32:33.439 --> 1:32:35.960 this requires a constant supply of American dollars to go 1:32:36.000 --> 1:32:39.360 buy good manufacture goods from other places, because Bolivia's manufacturing 1:32:39.360 --> 1:32:41.599 economy is effectively is a joke. And this is something 1:32:41.640 --> 1:32:43.960 that was true of all of these economies. I mean, 1:32:44.000 --> 1:32:49.160 Bolivia never they kind of tried to industrialize in the seventies, 1:32:49.200 --> 1:32:50.800 but they never got as far along with it as 1:32:50.800 --> 1:32:52.920 a country like Brazil or country like Venezuela did in 1:32:52.920 --> 1:32:55.600 the seventies. And the other thing about these all these 1:32:55.640 --> 1:32:57.559 sort of pink Tai governments is they all took power 1:32:57.640 --> 1:33:00.840 in economies that have been completely deindustrialized man liberalism, right. 1:33:00.880 --> 1:33:02.080 We talked about this with Brazil. 1:33:02.160 --> 1:33:04.760 Brazil went from a country that was a kind of 1:33:04.800 --> 1:33:06.920 like effectively a first not quite a first, right, but 1:33:06.960 --> 1:33:10.760 maybe a second tier a large, a powerful second tier 1:33:10.760 --> 1:33:14.800 industrial power to a country whose economy is almost entirely 1:33:14.800 --> 1:33:17.759 based on sort of primary commodity production and farming bullshit. 1:33:17.840 --> 1:33:20.200 So they've they've moved down that they've moved down the 1:33:20.280 --> 1:33:23.200 value chain. They'vey're manufacturing less stuff, they're producing shit that's 1:33:23.240 --> 1:33:26.080 on the bottom. They're getting less value from the value 1:33:26.120 --> 1:33:29.400 added bullshit moving up the chain. And this is this 1:33:29.439 --> 1:33:31.439 is also the problem with the beliving economy, and because 1:33:31.439 --> 1:33:34.320 the natural gases is drying up, they don't have enough 1:33:34.400 --> 1:33:37.679 dollars coming into the economy for people to use to 1:33:37.880 --> 1:33:41.400 buy things. And the Bolivian currency is also pegged to 1:33:41.520 --> 1:33:43.920 the dollar, right, so there's supposed to be an official 1:33:43.960 --> 1:33:46.719 exchange rate at which you know, X amount of money 1:33:46.760 --> 1:33:49.799 is worth x amount of dollars, and that's all falling apart. 1:33:49.920 --> 1:33:53.639 People are sort of running around in the streets trying 1:33:53.680 --> 1:33:58.440 to find people who will exchange like their currency for dollars. 1:33:59.000 --> 1:34:00.360 This is this is you know. So so this is 1:34:00.360 --> 1:34:01.839 a classic short of balance of payments. 1:34:02.280 --> 1:34:04.000 Yeah, well it's kind of because it's kind of kind 1:34:04.040 --> 1:34:06.519 of a balancing, but they're having a giant dollar shortage. 1:34:06.520 --> 1:34:10.720 This is really really messing up. No, I mean not 1:34:10.800 --> 1:34:13.400 just the economy, but the entire political system is really 1:34:13.479 --> 1:34:18.960 kind of coming apart under this. Now, okay, I I 1:34:19.280 --> 1:34:22.439 talked about things kind of coming apart there. There there 1:34:22.560 --> 1:34:25.360 is another thing that is coming apart in Bolivia, which 1:34:25.400 --> 1:34:29.080 is the m AS is shattering. Yes, the shattering, it's 1:34:29.120 --> 1:34:32.840 it's it's splintering in two. So what is the m 1:34:32.840 --> 1:34:36.559 A S So the m AS is this part? Oh okay, 1:34:36.600 --> 1:34:39.599 so it has a slightly weirder history, which is that 1:34:39.640 --> 1:34:42.000 so the m a S was a completely random actually 1:34:42.080 --> 1:34:47.080 kind of kind of right wing political party, but importantly 1:34:47.160 --> 1:34:51.040 it hads electoral status, so it was it was it's 1:34:51.080 --> 1:34:53.920 a party that was taken over by the social movements 1:34:53.960 --> 1:34:55.639 at the end of the sort of stuff stuff we're 1:34:55.640 --> 1:34:56.960 going to get to in order to be able to 1:34:57.040 --> 1:34:58.960 run like you need in order to be able to 1:34:59.040 --> 1:35:00.320 run candidates for office. 1:35:00.520 --> 1:35:02.719 But this means that because again because it was literally 1:35:03.200 --> 1:35:04.480 it was an existing. 1:35:04.200 --> 1:35:06.719 Legal, registered party that was taken over from the outside, 1:35:06.760 --> 1:35:10.240 and because of how it emerged, it's always been seen 1:35:10.439 --> 1:35:13.400 as sort of a movement party, right It's supposed to 1:35:13.439 --> 1:35:15.679 be like the assembly of Oblivia sort of left. 1:35:15.600 --> 1:35:18.759 Wing social movements. And these left wing social. 1:35:18.560 --> 1:35:21.200 Movements are the movements that i emerge in quite the 1:35:21.240 --> 1:35:23.280 right word, but are the movements that solidified it began 1:35:23.360 --> 1:35:25.880 to sort of exert their power from two thousand and 1:35:25.920 --> 1:35:30.200 two thousand and six in this enormous sequence of social 1:35:30.280 --> 1:35:32.680 uprising against sort of Bolivia neoliberalism. 1:35:33.000 --> 1:35:34.040 The most famous of these are the. 1:35:34.040 --> 1:35:37.960 Water and gas wars, which are these fights against water 1:35:38.000 --> 1:35:42.200 privatization and the sort of gas line and this alliance 1:35:42.360 --> 1:35:47.360 of peasant unions, the traditional sort of urban urban sort 1:35:47.360 --> 1:35:50.920 of proletariat like traditional sort of like urban left. 1:35:51.320 --> 1:35:52.040 These these new. 1:35:52.000 --> 1:35:55.760 Street movements, coca growers unions, miners unions, and a whole 1:35:55.880 --> 1:35:57.720 array of indigenous groups that we frankly do you don't 1:35:57.760 --> 1:36:00.479 have time to get into here because the politics are 1:36:00.640 --> 1:36:04.320 extremely the philosophy is extremely complicate. I don't know if 1:36:04.320 --> 1:36:06.479 I've talked about this on the show before, but one 1:36:06.479 --> 1:36:10.080 of the I mean, we're talking about like like they 1:36:10.080 --> 1:36:13.840 have like philosophical constructs that I don't understand. It's this 1:36:13.920 --> 1:36:17.439 philosophical construct that's like a dialectic, but there's three parts 1:36:17.439 --> 1:36:19.960 of it, and they don't it doesn't resolve. They just 1:36:20.000 --> 1:36:22.800 all kind of grind intension with each other. Right, So like, Okay, 1:36:22.840 --> 1:36:26.000 we're not really going to get into that. It's outside 1:36:26.040 --> 1:36:28.240 the scope of the show of If you're more interested 1:36:28.240 --> 1:36:32.800 in this, read Rhythms of the PATCHACOUTI or get a doctorate. 1:36:32.920 --> 1:36:38.240 I guess, yeah, yeah, we returned to grad school. Your 1:36:38.280 --> 1:36:39.320 options are limited. 1:36:39.640 --> 1:36:41.600 But you know, there's this coalition of of all of 1:36:41.640 --> 1:36:45.680 the kinds of unions, these rural unions or urban unions, 1:36:46.160 --> 1:36:50.000 urban street movements, real street movements, gather together, gather their strength, 1:36:50.200 --> 1:36:55.400 set up a million roadblocks, and just smash the neoliberal right. 1:36:55.520 --> 1:37:00.800 They are. The oblivious right is basically completely destroyed from 1:37:00.800 --> 1:37:04.080 the period of two thousand and six until twenty nineteen. 1:37:04.800 --> 1:37:06.519 That was the first time they ever took power. They 1:37:06.520 --> 1:37:08.439 did it in a coup and they held power for 1:37:10.479 --> 1:37:14.519 about one year before they were kicked out of power again. 1:37:14.960 --> 1:37:20.000 So they basically completely reshaped all of politics in Bolivia. 1:37:20.680 --> 1:37:23.680 Those the second round of roadblocks very nearly destroyed the 1:37:23.680 --> 1:37:26.360 Bolivian state until as I sort of allatedd to earlier. 1:37:26.400 --> 1:37:28.479 Even More, Alles pulled his supporters out the barricade in 1:37:28.600 --> 1:37:30.400 order to get an election in two thousand and six, 1:37:30.920 --> 1:37:32.799 and this is the election of the MS one. 1:37:33.240 --> 1:37:36.200 And to understand the kind of seismic change of this right, 1:37:36.240 --> 1:37:38.600 the MAAS is the first party in the history of 1:37:38.600 --> 1:37:40.920 Bolivia to win a majority of the season the parliament 1:37:40.960 --> 1:37:45.719 by itself first party ever. It completely destroyed the existing 1:37:45.760 --> 1:37:48.680 sort of political system. And again this was supposed to 1:37:48.720 --> 1:37:50.320 be a sort of a sort of new kind of 1:37:50.320 --> 1:37:53.439 party right. The theory of the MAS is the organization 1:37:53.479 --> 1:37:56.879 of the social movements. Former vice president and sometimes Marxist 1:37:56.960 --> 1:38:02.600 Garcia Leneria described it as quote, there's a dialectical relationship 1:38:02.640 --> 1:38:05.160 between the social movements and the party. Now this is 1:38:05.200 --> 1:38:11.720 a lie. Or more precisely, if this is a dialectic, 1:38:11.800 --> 1:38:14.760 it is not a Hegelian or Marxist dialectic, where the 1:38:14.760 --> 1:38:18.200 sublation of two parts creates a concrete totality or a 1:38:18.240 --> 1:38:19.880 whole that is neither of the things that all is 1:38:20.080 --> 1:38:23.160 for it. This is a Maoist dialectic where two sides 1:38:23.200 --> 1:38:24.960 face off each other with each other, and one of 1:38:24.960 --> 1:38:26.200 them hits the other side of the help with a 1:38:26.240 --> 1:38:27.439 hammer until it dies. 1:38:27.880 --> 1:38:30.960 It's just a conflict. It's just there are two three 1:38:31.000 --> 1:38:32.720 people and they both want to control the thing. 1:38:33.000 --> 1:38:36.160 Yeah, so. 1:38:37.760 --> 1:38:39.120 That's what ends up happening. Right. 1:38:39.360 --> 1:38:42.360 So, the social movements and the indigenous movements in particular 1:38:42.400 --> 1:38:46.479 have been fracturing for a decade. You know, there are 1:38:46.520 --> 1:38:49.360 a whole series of large fights, even even in sort 1:38:49.360 --> 1:38:53.200 of like the early twenty tens over sort of of 1:38:53.280 --> 1:38:56.160 the NIS doing these infrastructure things that everyone else in 1:38:56.200 --> 1:38:58.000 the country was like, why are you building a road 1:38:58.000 --> 1:38:58.880 to indigenous land. 1:38:58.880 --> 1:39:01.280 There's huge fights, many such cases. 1:39:01.920 --> 1:39:05.439 Yeah, so you know, this is the kind of hollowing 1:39:05.439 --> 1:39:07.760 out in the kind of conflict that had led to 1:39:08.040 --> 1:39:11.000 the social movements being completely unable to overturn the coup 1:39:11.000 --> 1:39:13.040 in twenty nineteen, and it taking them until the end 1:39:13.120 --> 1:39:15.960 of twenty twenty to really pull their shit together. 1:39:16.160 --> 1:39:18.479 And you know, overturn the. 1:39:18.439 --> 1:39:26.400 Coup and you know, you know what else overturns coups. 1:39:26.240 --> 1:39:29.479 That's a that's a f promits is it arming the 1:39:29.520 --> 1:39:30.720 working class? 1:39:30.760 --> 1:39:34.960 It is the working class we are sponsored by yeah, 1:39:35.080 --> 1:39:42.040 or in the entire working class. 1:39:47.680 --> 1:39:50.640 We're back. So okay, So now we get to the 1:39:50.960 --> 1:39:52.800 present spling the social movements. 1:39:53.080 --> 1:39:57.120 What has happened now is that you know, are say 1:39:57.360 --> 1:40:02.240 and and even Morale had always kind of gotten along usually, 1:40:02.880 --> 1:40:06.639 but once you know, our say took power, he instead 1:40:06.640 --> 1:40:09.280 of he didn't want to sort of just be a 1:40:09.360 --> 1:40:11.439 proxy for even Morales. He had his own sort of 1:40:11.479 --> 1:40:16.160 actually like not great agenda either, a sort of more 1:40:16.240 --> 1:40:18.880 technocratic agenda. Although you know, you have to sort of 1:40:18.920 --> 1:40:21.439 ask Evil, like you're the one who brought these people 1:40:21.439 --> 1:40:23.440 into the party, Like, I don't know what you were expecting. 1:40:24.680 --> 1:40:26.400 You brought these people in that they weren't going to 1:40:26.439 --> 1:40:29.799 governed as a sort of center left technocratic capitalist government. 1:40:30.120 --> 1:40:33.719 You know, you could have seen this coming, but they 1:40:33.760 --> 1:40:36.880 they have been increasingly fighting, and the two sides are 1:40:36.920 --> 1:40:40.760 now implacably hostile. They are saying evil, fucking hate each other. 1:40:41.120 --> 1:40:44.719 And this, this divide has split every single social movement 1:40:44.800 --> 1:40:47.280 in Bolivia, from the Landless Workers' Movement to the cocoa growers, 1:40:47.280 --> 1:40:49.719 to the indigenous federations, to the fucking urban trade unions 1:40:49.760 --> 1:40:52.840 to the miners unions. Every one of these organizations either 1:40:53.160 --> 1:40:56.240 has officially split into two factions as one's in Evil 1:40:56.280 --> 1:40:58.599 faction and ones in our save faction, or they are 1:40:58.600 --> 1:41:01.400 in the middle of the fight where you know, they're 1:41:01.439 --> 1:41:04.639 they're they're both sides are still fighting for control over 1:41:04.960 --> 1:41:08.200 over you know, their union federation. And this is not 1:41:08.439 --> 1:41:10.599 a clean left right split, which is this is actually 1:41:10.600 --> 1:41:12.080 I mean, that was kind of what I was expecting 1:41:12.360 --> 1:41:15.040 ish when this fight started, that I was sort of 1:41:15.040 --> 1:41:16.320 expecting that this was going to end up as a 1:41:16.360 --> 1:41:18.799 fight between sort of you know, the left of social 1:41:18.840 --> 1:41:20.920 movements and the sort of center right base. But that's 1:41:20.960 --> 1:41:24.840 not really what happens. It is kind of a left 1:41:24.920 --> 1:41:28.639 right split, but you know, it's also a split over 1:41:28.680 --> 1:41:31.760 the person of Evo himself. And because it partially a 1:41:31.800 --> 1:41:33.880 split over Evo himself. There's a lot of like sort 1:41:33.880 --> 1:41:37.200 of more left wing groups that are kind of are 1:41:37.320 --> 1:41:39.439 kind of backing our say, because they don't want even 1:41:39.439 --> 1:41:42.519 morallies to come back into power and re solidify his 1:41:42.520 --> 1:41:44.920 control over all of these all the social movements, and 1:41:44.960 --> 1:41:47.880 they're you know, angry at him for a whole series 1:41:48.040 --> 1:41:52.320 of attempts to sort of co opt their movements. It's also, 1:41:52.400 --> 1:41:54.320 you know, it's also it's also a split about sort 1:41:54.320 --> 1:41:56.640 of how autonomous the social movement should be, should be 1:41:56.640 --> 1:41:59.759 able to be from government policy. It's it's a it's 1:42:00.320 --> 1:42:02.680 you know, it's kind of external to this. But one 1:42:02.720 --> 1:42:04.240 of the other thing that's going on is that Evo 1:42:04.320 --> 1:42:06.439 has been really unpopular with a lot of feminist groups 1:42:06.479 --> 1:42:09.240 in Bolivia for a very long time for a lot 1:42:09.240 --> 1:42:12.479 of reasons, including I mean, you know, one of the 1:42:12.479 --> 1:42:16.479 big ones is Bolivia's horrific femicide crisis, which the MAAS 1:42:16.560 --> 1:42:18.439 has been in power for almost twenty years and has 1:42:18.479 --> 1:42:22.640 done jack shit to actually like deal with, right, you know, 1:42:22.720 --> 1:42:25.440 So there's there are all of these sort of fractures 1:42:25.920 --> 1:42:29.719 breaking out. Partially also it's a war between for control 1:42:29.760 --> 1:42:32.559 of the MAAS, between the Coca goers unions and the 1:42:32.560 --> 1:42:36.040 miners unions. So this is a shit show. It is 1:42:36.080 --> 1:42:37.960 a complete fiasca. And then you know the thing that 1:42:38.000 --> 1:42:39.840 makes it more with fiasco is, you know, we talked 1:42:39.840 --> 1:42:42.759 about this sort of with uh we We did an episode 1:42:42.760 --> 1:42:45.439 about kind of what's been happening with with the sort 1:42:45.479 --> 1:42:49.040 of pink tied governments a while back, and you know, 1:42:49.080 --> 1:42:50.400 one of the things you talked about in that episode 1:42:50.479 --> 1:42:53.519 was Ecuador, where Ecuador has this left wing base that 1:42:53.680 --> 1:42:56.479 should win every single election until the end of time, 1:42:56.720 --> 1:42:58.840 and they don't because they're constantly fighting each other. And 1:42:58.840 --> 1:43:02.120 this is effectively the beginning of hopefully it doesn't turn 1:43:02.160 --> 1:43:04.439 into that. But I mean the m a s if 1:43:04.479 --> 1:43:06.840 it is, if it is even sort of united, is 1:43:06.840 --> 1:43:10.240 in unprecedented Bolivian political juggernaut. It should win every election, 1:43:11.200 --> 1:43:12.479 like I mean, not till the end of time. They 1:43:12.479 --> 1:43:14.800 probably probably should only win I don't know that they 1:43:15.200 --> 1:43:17.559 have had demographic issues right now. 1:43:17.760 --> 1:43:19.160 Yeah, but you know they should. 1:43:18.920 --> 1:43:21.880 Still be winning effectively every every election and they're not. 1:43:22.040 --> 1:43:24.160 And the reason that they're not is because of this 1:43:24.320 --> 1:43:26.519 ship or a lousion. They might not is because of 1:43:26.520 --> 1:43:28.439 because of all of these all all of these splits 1:43:28.760 --> 1:43:32.720 and these are very these this isn't a These are 1:43:33.000 --> 1:43:36.360 very very serious political splits. I mean, uh, one of 1:43:36.400 --> 1:43:40.040 the miners workers meetings, very famously, the two sides broke 1:43:40.080 --> 1:43:42.360 into into fist fights. I think one hundred and forty 1:43:42.400 --> 1:43:46.160 people were injured. So you know, this is this is 1:43:46.200 --> 1:43:49.240 these are these are very serious fights. There's also a 1:43:49.240 --> 1:43:51.919 whole disaster right now over who actually is the candidate 1:43:51.960 --> 1:43:54.839 of the m a s Because Evo held this Congress 1:43:54.960 --> 1:43:56.920 of the m as it was his supporters that Arse 1:43:57.160 --> 1:43:58.800 was not at and they said that because he didn't, 1:43:58.800 --> 1:44:00.439 because r didn't show up, he was kicked out of 1:44:00.439 --> 1:44:01.480 the party. 1:44:03.160 --> 1:44:06.360 Classic, So this is this whole thing. So few typically 1:44:06.439 --> 1:44:07.080 been expelled. 1:44:07.080 --> 1:44:09.400 But like the courts got the electoral courts are now 1:44:09.439 --> 1:44:14.400 involved because the electoral courts have to decide what like, 1:44:15.000 --> 1:44:17.200 you know that they have to figure out what candidate 1:44:17.240 --> 1:44:22.000 their party's running. So it's this, it's it's a complete catastrophe. 1:44:22.320 --> 1:44:27.040 And in the midst of this complete catastrophe there is 1:44:28.320 --> 1:44:32.439 the worst coup of the twenty first century. So let 1:44:32.479 --> 1:44:35.680 a lot of let's get into finally this coup. So 1:44:35.840 --> 1:44:38.280 this coup is run by a guy named Juan Jose 1:44:38.479 --> 1:44:41.120 Zunjega is the He's the commander of the Bolivian Army. 1:44:41.160 --> 1:44:43.719 He is hand picked by Arsay to run the army, 1:44:43.720 --> 1:44:48.080 to be the guy who yes is yeah, and this 1:44:48.160 --> 1:44:50.839 is you know this this this has sort of shades 1:44:50.960 --> 1:44:54.519 of the fact that Pinochet was sort of elevated by 1:44:54.880 --> 1:44:58.519 by Allende and the Social Democrats, but reminds me of 1:44:58.560 --> 1:45:02.320 Franco as well, like getting prom about this, Yeah, this 1:45:02.479 --> 1:45:04.440 was this, those were tragedy. 1:45:04.479 --> 1:45:05.280 This is farce. 1:45:06.600 --> 1:45:10.920 So what happens is that on Tuesday of last week, 1:45:11.479 --> 1:45:16.120 Niega goes on TV and says, I am going to 1:45:16.400 --> 1:45:19.920 like Louis evil morallies cannot be allowed to take power again. 1:45:20.000 --> 1:45:21.960 I will stop him from taking power. 1:45:23.120 --> 1:45:26.439 And our say is like, dude, what the fuck? 1:45:27.320 --> 1:45:31.479 Just immediately fires him, because you know you can't do that. 1:45:32.560 --> 1:45:36.719 Yes, Like almost every every country with a codified constitution 1:45:36.920 --> 1:45:40.120 has prohibitions on its military intervening and its politics, right, 1:45:40.160 --> 1:45:43.960 like yeah, the basics of democracy. 1:45:45.439 --> 1:45:49.120 Bolivia has had a series of military governments and military 1:45:49.120 --> 1:45:54.320 cups across this twentieth century, including the the god the 1:45:54.320 --> 1:45:58.519 fucking Cocaine coup that I've talked about at length in 1:45:58.600 --> 1:46:00.760 our world of the Communist League episod that ends with 1:46:00.800 --> 1:46:04.400 like Klaus Barbie fucking running around, right, So I mean, 1:46:04.439 --> 1:46:07.760 you know, like this is a country that has had 1:46:08.240 --> 1:46:12.200 military q is quite literally staffed by actual Nazis, right, 1:46:12.760 --> 1:46:15.120 so you know, this is this is a place that 1:46:15.160 --> 1:46:17.240 take that takes the threat of a military queue very 1:46:17.360 --> 1:46:21.040 very seriously. There hasn't been one, blessedly in a long time, 1:46:21.439 --> 1:46:23.200 but there's a lot of people who are fucking alive 1:46:23.240 --> 1:46:26.639 for the last one. And you know, and so this 1:46:26.640 --> 1:46:30.000 this is you know, people are extremely unhappy, even people 1:46:30.000 --> 1:46:33.080 who I think in theory would be okay with, you know, 1:46:33.120 --> 1:46:37.040 the government being deposed, like absolutely, under no circumstances want 1:46:37.040 --> 1:46:39.839 the fucking military running in the country because again, everyone 1:46:39.880 --> 1:46:41.720 fucking remembers how bad that shit was. 1:46:42.240 --> 1:46:43.360 But what appears duff. 1:46:43.160 --> 1:46:48.880 Happened is that Zaninka realizes that so he's just been fired, right, 1:46:48.920 --> 1:46:51.479 which means that he has a very short time window 1:46:51.800 --> 1:46:53.920 in which he could try to pull some shit, Which 1:46:54.000 --> 1:46:56.040 means that whatever whenever he may have been planning, I 1:46:56.080 --> 1:46:58.439 don't know what his actual plans were. He may have 1:46:58.439 --> 1:47:00.400 been actually planning a coup, he may not have been 1:47:00.479 --> 1:47:02.320 until here was just immediately like, well, I guess we 1:47:02.360 --> 1:47:02.960 have to do it now. 1:47:03.439 --> 1:47:06.679 If it was planning, it wasn't planning very well, because yeah, yeah, 1:47:06.840 --> 1:47:09.479 what results from this for this very I think results 1:47:09.479 --> 1:47:12.040 on this very short timetable is the worst cup I've 1:47:12.040 --> 1:47:12.519 ever seen. 1:47:13.080 --> 1:47:15.880 So what appears to have happened is that on Wednesday 1:47:15.960 --> 1:47:18.840 he gathers the troops that he's able to gather, which 1:47:18.840 --> 1:47:22.040 is not that I mean we're talking like a hundred guys. 1:47:22.080 --> 1:47:23.599 Maybe it was. 1:47:23.560 --> 1:47:25.840 Not a you know, they they had a decent number 1:47:25.840 --> 1:47:28.000 of armored vehicles, but it was not like a lot 1:47:28.040 --> 1:47:28.759 of troops. 1:47:30.160 --> 1:47:32.599 It does not appay that he even had the support 1:47:32.680 --> 1:47:33.960 of a lot of troops, right. 1:47:33.880 --> 1:47:36.280 Like, yeah, a lot of the army seitster have kind 1:47:36.280 --> 1:47:38.120 of been sitting there going what the fuck is going on? 1:47:38.280 --> 1:47:41.240 But it was you know, I mean I was watching 1:47:41.240 --> 1:47:44.080 the videos who were like the livestreams from journalism on 1:47:44.080 --> 1:47:46.360 the ground of these troops and they're just they're just 1:47:46.400 --> 1:47:47.280 worth it, many of them. 1:47:48.320 --> 1:47:51.439 No, they really were, Like it was the whole thing 1:47:51.760 --> 1:47:55.880 was just really fucking shocking, like chockingly bad. They didn't 1:47:55.880 --> 1:47:58.960 even surround the building, they just went up to one door. 1:47:59.479 --> 1:48:01.560 Yeah, so it's so what happens is they use in 1:48:01.600 --> 1:48:04.439 our vehicle to ram the door of the presidential palace, 1:48:05.040 --> 1:48:06.560 and they try to take control of it. But the 1:48:06.880 --> 1:48:12.200 thing is right are saying, is it in the presidential palace? 1:48:12.520 --> 1:48:14.879 He and his cabinet are in the next building over. 1:48:16.240 --> 1:48:22.400 So they taken the wrong building, going great, and again 1:48:22.439 --> 1:48:24.680 this this is not a sort of you know, this 1:48:24.720 --> 1:48:25.439 is not a coup. 1:48:25.280 --> 1:48:29.759 That follows the standard coup repertoire of I seize the president, 1:48:29.840 --> 1:48:33.439 sees the radio station, sees the airport, sees the trains, right, yeah, 1:48:33.479 --> 1:48:35.639 and have been tray control over the military barrackses, which 1:48:35.680 --> 1:48:37.280 is your short this is your sort of basic five 1:48:37.320 --> 1:48:38.679 step plan to how to do a coup. 1:48:39.320 --> 1:48:42.800 They will be doing that episode soon by the way. Yeah, yeah, 1:48:43.520 --> 1:48:46.720 given today's to find we're in the we're in the 1:48:46.720 --> 1:48:48.880 clear plan to do a coup. 1:48:49.400 --> 1:48:51.800 But you know, so they don't they don't even see 1:48:51.840 --> 1:48:53.639 a part one, so they're they're kind of just kind 1:48:53.640 --> 1:48:59.000 of milling around the front of the Presidential Palace and 1:48:59.120 --> 1:49:01.599 try to get into the next building where the president 1:49:01.640 --> 1:49:05.880 actually is. So it's also the demands are also very weird. 1:49:06.760 --> 1:49:10.360 So Nika claims that he's not overthrowing the governments. He 1:49:10.400 --> 1:49:12.880 claims that he's still loyal to our say, but he's 1:49:12.920 --> 1:49:14.400 going to form a new cabinet. 1:49:15.320 --> 1:49:21.200 Oh yeah, he's useful. Yeah, that's how you normally do that. Yeah. 1:49:21.240 --> 1:49:23.920 So he's like yelling about the economic crisis, says he's 1:49:23.920 --> 1:49:28.120 going to quote restored democracy and quote release political prisoners. 1:49:29.040 --> 1:49:31.000 Which I kind of get. 1:49:31.439 --> 1:49:34.040 Okay, So the political prisoner's thing, I think is about 1:49:34.080 --> 1:49:36.320 the people who've been arrested for doing the twenty nineteen coup. 1:49:36.320 --> 1:49:38.720 I have no idea what restored democracy means. I don't 1:49:38.760 --> 1:49:40.240 know if he had any idea what he meant by 1:49:40.240 --> 1:49:42.639 restored democracy. Something was happening. 1:49:43.120 --> 1:49:44.840 But the thing is the other thing about this coup 1:49:44.840 --> 1:49:46.880 is that he has no backing at all. I mean, 1:49:46.880 --> 1:49:48.439 he doesn't even have back in the army, but he 1:49:48.479 --> 1:49:50.240 has no he doesn't even have backing among the right. 1:49:50.320 --> 1:49:53.160 Both Macho Camacho and Jeanina one Aye are people who 1:49:53.160 --> 1:49:57.439 did like the last one. Both condemned the coup. So 1:49:57.800 --> 1:50:00.120 people he is trying to break out of prison it 1:50:00.360 --> 1:50:06.640 condemned the coup. Right, This is going nowhere. 1:50:05.640 --> 1:50:06.800 Worst coup I've ever seen. 1:50:07.479 --> 1:50:10.800 So meanwhile, or say it is cabinet are in the 1:50:10.840 --> 1:50:13.400 next building over appointing a new commander of the army, 1:50:13.680 --> 1:50:15.280 so that the new commander of the army can go 1:50:15.320 --> 1:50:17.720 outside and order them order the troops to go back 1:50:17.720 --> 1:50:18.400 to their barracks. 1:50:21.600 --> 1:50:22.799 This is kind of what's happening. 1:50:22.840 --> 1:50:25.360 But also meanwhile outside so that these troops have like 1:50:25.360 --> 1:50:28.120 taken over the square in front of the presidential Palace, 1:50:28.120 --> 1:50:30.720 and that they have sort of successfully managed to take 1:50:30.760 --> 1:50:34.360 over the square with a bunch of sort of military police. 1:50:34.040 --> 1:50:34.679 And riot gear. 1:50:34.720 --> 1:50:36.800 But there's this sort of crowd who's come to yell 1:50:36.920 --> 1:50:39.879 at the army, right, and it's just very weird spectacle 1:50:39.880 --> 1:50:42.880 because it's there's all these soldiers to all have long guns, right, 1:50:43.200 --> 1:50:46.400 being protected by a light of cops with riot shields. Yeah. 1:50:46.479 --> 1:50:50.439 Yeah, like if you open up on the crowd, like 1:50:51.280 --> 1:50:55.200 have enough numbers to get every every single one of 1:50:55.200 --> 1:50:58.960 you is going to be individually executed. Yeah, So they're 1:50:59.000 --> 1:51:03.040 all people don't have guns and. 1:51:02.960 --> 1:51:05.360 Unless that you know, and when I say execute, I 1:51:05.400 --> 1:51:06.960 mean like they're they're gonna get executed by the goverment. 1:51:07.040 --> 1:51:09.120 That that's assuming they live long enough and are not 1:51:09.200 --> 1:51:11.360 just beaten to death by the crowd, which is also 1:51:11.400 --> 1:51:16.240 a real possibility. But you know, so this crowd is 1:51:16.240 --> 1:51:18.160 sort of approaching a lot of riot police. You're getting 1:51:18.160 --> 1:51:19.720 tear gas a bit. But this is and I kind 1:51:19.720 --> 1:51:22.200 of emphasize this enough, this is not a kind of 1:51:22.240 --> 1:51:25.599 normal like highly organized Bolivian mass protest where you know, 1:51:25.760 --> 1:51:27.599 all of the union, the Union's college general. 1:51:27.400 --> 1:51:28.439 Strike in the middle of this. 1:51:28.600 --> 1:51:31.559 Yeah, but again, this this whole thing lasts maybe two 1:51:31.560 --> 1:51:35.360 and a half hours, so there's not time to do 1:51:35.479 --> 1:51:38.160 the actual kind of sort of roadblocks and stuff like that. 1:51:38.200 --> 1:51:40.760 There's not time to actually do the organization that you 1:51:40.800 --> 1:51:41.479 would need to do. 1:51:41.479 --> 1:51:42.280 Overturn this coup. 1:51:42.840 --> 1:51:46.400 This coup falls apart so fast that people don't have 1:51:46.439 --> 1:51:50.679 time to make protest signs only have our flags. They 1:51:50.760 --> 1:51:53.240 do not have time to write signs out. That is 1:51:53.360 --> 1:51:56.479 that they don't have time to cope with chance. I 1:51:56.600 --> 1:51:58.559 was watching the funniest part about this whole thing, So 1:51:58.680 --> 1:52:00.360 I was watching a live stream of the pro testers, 1:52:00.360 --> 1:52:03.280 and the protesters had gotten this kind of I guess 1:52:03.280 --> 1:52:05.120 you call it sort of this kind of metal gate. 1:52:05.320 --> 1:52:08.080 I guess it was this big sort of it almost 1:52:08.080 --> 1:52:09.880 looked like you know how there's you get this those 1:52:09.920 --> 1:52:12.000 white shelves that have like metal bars, and it was 1:52:12.040 --> 1:52:13.519 kind of like that like cross hashed. 1:52:13.520 --> 1:52:14.679 It was you know, it was pretty big. 1:52:15.160 --> 1:52:17.720 I was like bigger than a person, and like three 1:52:17.760 --> 1:52:19.800 people are like carrying in front of them, like going 1:52:19.840 --> 1:52:21.680 to the police lane, presumably to use it as a 1:52:21.680 --> 1:52:26.360 battering ram. But the troops run away so fast that 1:52:26.479 --> 1:52:29.160 these guys couldn't get their gate up to the police 1:52:29.200 --> 1:52:31.719 line fast enough to use it. 1:52:32.360 --> 1:52:35.840 That's how you know it's going. Well, it was staggering. 1:52:36.240 --> 1:52:37.080 It was amazing. 1:52:37.280 --> 1:52:40.519 So, you know, the entire coup calls apart. Zuniga gets 1:52:40.640 --> 1:52:45.040 arrested on Life TV. It's like giving a press conference 1:52:45.120 --> 1:52:46.439 and they just like arrest them. 1:52:46.960 --> 1:52:47.640 Amazing. 1:52:48.400 --> 1:52:50.599 But at the end of this, as it's falling apart, 1:52:50.680 --> 1:52:55.280 the one genuinely masterful stroke that Zunjinga pulls in this 1:52:55.439 --> 1:52:59.280 entire I mean it missed a just a cavalcade of failure. 1:53:00.160 --> 1:53:02.920 One actual genius line that he does is as as 1:53:02.920 --> 1:53:05.120 he started being arrested, he says it's in prison too. 1:53:05.600 --> 1:53:05.880 Uh. 1:53:05.920 --> 1:53:08.320 He claims that he's been ordered by Arsay to do 1:53:08.400 --> 1:53:10.639 this in order to bolst ar Say's poll numbers, which 1:53:10.640 --> 1:53:11.519 are dog shit. 1:53:12.960 --> 1:53:13.400 It's fake. 1:53:13.840 --> 1:53:19.240 Yeah yeah, now, okay, this this whole scheme begs the question, 1:53:19.640 --> 1:53:22.760 what was Arsay supposed to get out of this, sorry 1:53:22.840 --> 1:53:25.240 not again, Why what what what is? What does he 1:53:25.280 --> 1:53:25.960 get out of it? Right? 1:53:25.960 --> 1:53:27.799 Because she's just going to prison. 1:53:28.200 --> 1:53:30.080 It's like, why would he do it if it was 1:53:30.160 --> 1:53:33.640 just under orders from the president because this is a 1:53:33.800 --> 1:53:37.120 lose lose for him, so none of it makes any sense. 1:53:37.760 --> 1:53:39.880 But comma, this is. 1:53:39.880 --> 1:53:43.240 Immediately picked up by morele I supporters. You fucking hate 1:53:43.360 --> 1:53:47.240 r say, and they all immediately begin sort of repeating us. 1:53:47.280 --> 1:53:49.320 And now this has become sort of the official line. 1:53:49.360 --> 1:53:53.280 I mean, even Morales. He's been on TV and on 1:53:53.320 --> 1:53:56.000 social media just saying, yeah, this was this was a 1:53:56.000 --> 1:53:58.080 fake coup. This was a coup that Arsey did against 1:53:58.120 --> 1:54:02.439 himself to help his poll numbers, and this is you know, 1:54:02.520 --> 1:54:04.920 this is a This has turned into a real thing. 1:54:04.920 --> 1:54:07.120 And there's a lot of people who are sort of like, 1:54:07.960 --> 1:54:11.360 I don't know, the whole coup was really weird, right, 1:54:11.840 --> 1:54:14.200 And there's a lot of people who believe this because 1:54:14.760 --> 1:54:17.519 they're you know, I mean, either because they want to 1:54:17.520 --> 1:54:20.679 believe it, or because you know, I mean it does 1:54:20.760 --> 1:54:23.360 look weird, or because they fucking just hate our say 1:54:23.360 --> 1:54:27.280 from the beginning, right, this is all you know, as 1:54:27.320 --> 1:54:28.880 funny as it's sort of is this has had a 1:54:28.920 --> 1:54:32.960 sort of catastrophic effect on sort of just like regular 1:54:32.960 --> 1:54:37.200 oblivion people, because people are fucking terrified. You know, they're 1:54:37.240 --> 1:54:39.680 terrified that this is the beginning of the army coming 1:54:39.720 --> 1:54:42.280 back into politics. They're terrified that someone else is going 1:54:42.320 --> 1:54:44.400 to do a coup. I mean even more. Elis has 1:54:44.440 --> 1:54:47.240 been saying for a very long time. Actually both of 1:54:47.240 --> 1:54:49.480 them have been trading accusations that the other one is 1:54:49.520 --> 1:54:51.800 going to do a cup against them. 1:54:52.080 --> 1:54:55.080 Yeah, they've been banging the coup drum for a little while. 1:54:55.200 --> 1:54:57.240 Yeah, everyone, everyone has sort of been claiming that there's 1:54:57.240 --> 1:55:00.480 going to be cups happening. And all of this is 1:55:00.480 --> 1:55:03.800 creating this sort of cauldron of things that are extremely 1:55:03.880 --> 1:55:08.400 bad for the Bolivian left. The economic boom that wildered 1:55:08.400 --> 1:55:11.680 their coalition together is over. It's not clear anyone can 1:55:11.720 --> 1:55:13.720 bring it back, because again, this is a this is 1:55:13.720 --> 1:55:17.320 a natural gas based thing, right. And the other problem 1:55:17.320 --> 1:55:19.680 that they have is, you know, the problem that all 1:55:19.720 --> 1:55:22.320 social democracies have, which is that they've created a middle 1:55:22.320 --> 1:55:25.760 class base of small business owners and people with middle 1:55:25.760 --> 1:55:28.760 class salaries and professional jobs. And we talked about this 1:55:28.760 --> 1:55:31.640 in the Brazilian context, and this is something that Garcia 1:55:31.720 --> 1:55:34.200 le Nara has talked about too, which is that, well, 1:55:34.200 --> 1:55:36.120 he doesn't say it in these words because he's a 1:55:36.160 --> 1:55:39.760 coward and a capitalist, but social democracy produces its own 1:55:39.800 --> 1:55:42.280 grave diggers by creating a middle class that despises them 1:55:42.320 --> 1:55:45.760 and then eventually destroys everything the social Democrats thought to create. 1:55:46.320 --> 1:55:50.120 And that this is very possible that what we are 1:55:50.160 --> 1:55:54.880 in right now is the opening stages of this entire 1:55:55.040 --> 1:55:59.640 political project coming apart. Yeah, I fucking hope it doesn't, 1:55:59.720 --> 1:56:02.400 and I hope that you know, but again, like, the only, 1:56:02.440 --> 1:56:05.920 the only actual way to resolve the inherent sort of 1:56:06.000 --> 1:56:08.800 political and social contradictions of attempting to have a sort 1:56:08.800 --> 1:56:12.000 of left wing socialist political base and a capitalist government 1:56:12.080 --> 1:56:15.120 is to eliminate the capitalist state. Yeah, So either either 1:56:15.160 --> 1:56:16.640 you do that or you get another one of these 1:56:16.680 --> 1:56:17.600 shitty fucking cues. 1:56:18.080 --> 1:56:20.480 Yeah, you're just constantly vulnerable to this ship, right, like 1:56:20.600 --> 1:56:23.640 at any point, Yeah, yeah, you're creating the conditions which a. 1:56:23.560 --> 1:56:26.240 Wealthy and I mean, and we've we've we've already seen 1:56:26.480 --> 1:56:28.480 the coup that's capable of knocking them out of power, 1:56:28.560 --> 1:56:30.520 right it's the cup that actually has sort of a mass, 1:56:30.560 --> 1:56:32.000 like a mass backing from the right. 1:56:32.520 --> 1:56:35.320 And this was not that cue. This was this was 1:56:35.360 --> 1:56:37.960 this was the comedian's coup. This was the joker coup, 1:56:38.040 --> 1:56:44.520 This was the this is the worst coup. Yeah, but 1:56:45.480 --> 1:56:47.560 you know, the next one, the next one might not 1:56:47.600 --> 1:56:50.720 be yes, and that's quite serious. 1:56:51.400 --> 1:56:51.640 Yeah. 1:56:51.720 --> 1:56:54.800 So until then, hopefully, hopefully we don't reach there. But 1:56:54.880 --> 1:56:58.440 until this has been naked happened here. Yeah, you two 1:56:58.640 --> 1:57:03.280 can overturn a coup by yelling, not even particularly menacing, 1:57:03.320 --> 1:57:04.280 at a bunch your troops. 1:57:06.320 --> 1:57:09.680 Yeah, practice practice at home in case you ever need 1:57:09.720 --> 1:57:10.040 to do it. 1:57:13.120 --> 1:57:16.320 Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 1:57:16.360 --> 1:57:18.280 from now until the heat death of the Universe. 1:57:18.880 --> 1:57:21.360 It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 1:57:21.440 --> 1:57:24.120 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 1:57:24.160 --> 1:57:27.280 coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 1:57:27.280 --> 1:57:30.480 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 1:57:30.480 --> 1:57:33.200 find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at 1:57:33.240 --> 1:57:36.480 coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.