1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: As media. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: to let you know this is a compilation episode. So 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: every episode of the week that just happened is here 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:16,119 Speaker 1: in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for 5 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 1: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 8 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: you can make your own decisions. 9 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 2: This is that could happen here. We're talking about the 10 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 2: God you Are presidential debate starring Donald Trump and Joe Biden, 11 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 2: which was by far the worst presidential debate I've ever 12 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 2: seen in my entire life. 13 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: There's no competition. There's no competition like I remember the 14 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: days when we laughed at George W. Bush fucking up 15 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: ed a debate. Would he would clean up with either 16 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: of these guys, he would be sashing across the floor. 17 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 3: You could drop Sarah Palin in here, Yeah, own them. 18 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: Sarah Palin comes out of this looking like Bob fucking Hope. 19 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 2: So I'm Garrison Davis. I'm joined by Robert Evans and 20 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: James Stout. Let's uh, let's get into it. I guess 21 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 2: who do you think quote unquote won the debate. 22 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 3: I can tell you who fucking lost, Garrison, that's fucking 23 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 3: all of us. 24 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I will, I'll get into this later. I'm 25 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,559 Speaker 1: not sure it matters. But if the debate matters, Trump 26 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: won totally. If the debate matters, Trump one. 27 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 2: You know, that was my same thought as well. He 28 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 2: definitely was a much better debater and had much better 29 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 2: like political rhetoric. He he could form complete sentences, which 30 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 2: is something you couldnot say of Joe Biden. And that's 31 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 2: not that's not hyperbole. 32 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: I actually argue with the first two thirds of your 33 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: analysis there, because I don't think in argument terms, if 34 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: we're looking at this as a debate, Trump repeated, like 35 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: if I were scoring this the way you would competition. Trump 36 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: repeatedly followed Biden on these like Biden would goad him 37 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: with shit like what he said, what Trump said after 38 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: Charlott's Vieler all like Trump's height and him lying about it, 39 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: fucking golf scores, and Trump always took the bait. Why 40 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: I think Trump won is that this is not going 41 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: to get consumed as a debate. People aren't going to 42 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: look at this and like, look at the whole sweep 43 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,399 Speaker 1: of how they both sure, which Biden would still very 44 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: likely lose, but it's less clear. This is going to 45 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: get cut up a million ways on TikTok, and Trump's 46 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: just got a lot more AMMO out of this fucker. Yeah. 47 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: The very first thing I noticed is that both of 48 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 2: them looked barely awake as soon as he went on screen. 49 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 2: And so I did get a debate, Bengo, I almost 50 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: got two. I almost got three. I was very proud 51 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 2: of that. I guess I don't know, we can we 52 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 2: can go over some of some of what some of 53 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: what they talked about, because yeah, why. 54 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 3: Not do you want to hate do you want to 55 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 3: hate Jill Biden's review? Just just get that out of the 56 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 3: way real quick. 57 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, did he get Jill? Give it Jill or judge Jill? 58 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 3: Don't Jill Biden? Such a great job. You answered every 59 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 3: question fantastic, that's amazing stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he did 60 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 3: answered him coherently. Not so much. 61 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 2: We had We had an inject bleach reference from Biden 62 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 2: very early on. 63 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: And that was that was one of his better ploys. Unfortunately, 64 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: he followed it up by mumbling incoherently for like forty seconds. Yeah, yes, 65 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: but I was glad to hear it dropped. Yeah, he 66 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 1: was well prepd. 67 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 3: He just did not he executed Peok here's what I'll say. 68 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: I've said this about Joe for a while. If you 69 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: were looking at this man, not as the president, but 70 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: as like a relative, you would say, well, he's doing 71 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: you know, uncle Joe's doing okay for eighty two. You know, 72 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: like he's so most he's eighty six if he'll be 73 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: eighty six if he does a second term at the 74 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: end of it. But like if he were a regular person, 75 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: you would say, uncle Joe's doing okay for eighty two. 76 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: Maybe we should take the keys, you know, maybe doesn't 77 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: he that he doesn't need to be in a home, 78 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: you know, that would not be the right call at 79 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: this moment, But maybe he shouldn't have He shouldn't be driving, 80 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: you know. 81 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. 82 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 2: So one of the smart things I think Trump did 83 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 2: very early on is that he attacked the vaccine mandate 84 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: but not the vaccine. Yeah, that was that was one 85 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 2: of the more subtle moves that he did that I 86 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 2: think he pulled off very well. 87 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, Joe just gave it up. 88 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the one of the record trends with 89 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 2: Trump is that he really loved to call the United 90 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 2: States a third world nation and say we are now 91 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 2: an uncivilized nation. That was That was like one of 92 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 2: the many things Trump kept going back to because he 93 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 2: Trump really did just have like five things he just 94 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 2: kept talking about over and over and over again. He 95 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 2: mostly ignored the actual questions from moderators. The moderators themselves 96 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 2: did a really bad job both all the questions they 97 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 2: had and also like actually controlling controlling the candidates and 98 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 2: keep and keeping them on topic. But in general, I 99 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 2: think the questions that they did were just kind of bizarre. 100 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: Thirdal nation was a very common refrain from Trump. 101 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 3: And one thing that like Trump, Trump did badly more 102 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 3: than Biden or like you can see how Biden's team 103 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:06,799 Speaker 3: prepped him on it and then he screwed the pooch 104 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 3: on it. But like Biden would say these things that 105 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 3: he knew would trigger Trump, like his weight and his height. Right. Yeah, 106 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 3: the very good people on both sides and Trump completely 107 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 3: felt for that hootline thing. 108 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: You can tell Trump has been obsessing over the little 109 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: things that people say about like how he treated handled 110 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: stuff like the alt right and whatnot, like he's very 111 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: angry about some of that, which is interesting to me 112 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: because it wasn't the smart move. The smart move was like, 113 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: as Gary noted, Trump very I think intelligently pivoted on 114 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: the on the vaccine issue to like still being able 115 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: to take credit for it with some audiences, while also 116 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: making it clear that his issue was the mandates. Whenever 117 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: Trump was on the economy, I think, even though I 118 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: don't agree that he was the better president for the economy, 119 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,799 Speaker 1: I think that he performed strongly on stage. He spent 120 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: a lot of time in the weeds. If we're gonna 121 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: use golf metaphors, he kept like bocking shit into the 122 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: sand dunes and having to like. 123 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 3: Thank you for raising golf from it, it's you're. 124 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,799 Speaker 1: Welcome, You're welcome. Because this had the longest golf digression 125 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 1: of any presidential event of everything, he. 126 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 2: Had like a two minute argument over whether they could 127 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 2: play golf against each other and who would. 128 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 3: Win and whose handicap was what in the eighties. 129 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: What I saw in this is you've got two men 130 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: who are not at are past their prime. And the 131 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 1: thing the reason why this in large part went Trump's way, 132 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: is that Biden has never been a good public speaker. 133 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: It has never been his strength. He has a speech impediment, 134 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: right that he worked and got over much of his career. 135 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: But when you are older, you have less control over everything, 136 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: and we can see it coming back. Right. There's no 137 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: there ought not be any shame in that. But also 138 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: it does affect the way people think. This is a 139 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: horrible country full of terrible people. People do not forgive 140 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: a speech impediment. Right. But more to the point, the 141 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: thing that Biden is showing his age in most all, 142 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: as we all do. It's the shit that we're bad at. 143 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: We get a lot worse at, right, And you can 144 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: kind of hide how much you've aged when you're doing 145 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 1: something that is clearly your talent. You know, my grandpa 146 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: near the you know, late, fairly late in his Parkinson's journey, 147 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: could still like gut and clean and catch a fish 148 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,119 Speaker 1: really well. It wasn't until pretty advanced that he lost 149 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: that ability. And it was almost like you could see 150 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: some of that skill return to him. And like Trump 151 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: is a talker, Trump is a charismatic guy. He is 152 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: good at working a crowd. You can tell he is 153 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: falling off in his inability to the fact that he 154 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: keeps falling for all of these very obvious traps. Joe 155 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: Bile and he spent a lot of time in the weeds, 156 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: but he still sounds a lot stronger. And this is 157 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: entirely a contest of who can look best on camera, right, 158 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: and yeah, it's of course Trump's going to win. 159 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 2: I think the first really big topic that they started 160 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 2: to argue back and forth on was abortion. It started 161 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 2: by Trump saying that he is pro the abortion pill, 162 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 2: and he's pro the Supreme Court's recent rule leg which 163 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 2: he kind of mischaracter but that's still he did anything 164 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 2: coming from Trump saying that he's he's okay with the 165 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 2: with the abortion pill. 166 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: He even brought up being okay with a nine month 167 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: abortion if it's for the life of the mother, which 168 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: was interesting to me. 169 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 2: But then they spent a long time arguing over whether 170 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 2: Roe v. Wade means that you can kill babies after. 171 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: Exactly yes, right birth, And that was that was a 172 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: that was an interesting I don't think that that interaction. 173 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: I don't know how much it's gonna matter, but it 174 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: didn't come off well for Trump because. 175 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 2: He he didn't come off well for Trump. That was 176 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: I think this is one of the few things he 177 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 2: did not do well in of course, you know, Biden 178 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 2: has done very little to secure reproductive rights as as 179 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 2: the current president. We all we all know this, but 180 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 2: this did not come off well for Trump. They were 181 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 2: basically just arguing back and forth over whether Biden wants 182 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 2: to kill baby's post birth, which is just a ridiculous 183 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 2: thing to to argue. 184 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: It was a shameful chain of arguments. 185 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 4: Right. 186 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: George Bush would have insinuated the same thing but done 187 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: it in a way, but that left everyone feeling less 188 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: gross and that's why he did so many terrible things. 189 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: It's just interesting that we've stripped so much of the 190 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: shellac off of it and now they are just because 191 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: in George W. Bush's day, we were still the Republicans 192 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: were still calling Democrats baby killers. There was just it's 193 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: interesting how much of the sheen is gone. Maybe a 194 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: little more class, Yeah, yeah, maybe it's not all bad 195 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: that we're not pretending anymore, right Like, there's no pretending 196 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: on this stage. Both men are clearly not doing well. 197 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 3: The system itself is not pretending, right Like, we just 198 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 3: got a couple of fucking egyots and what we do and' 199 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 3: stile one of them like something I. 200 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 2: Will never pretend to do is dislike our products and 201 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 2: services that support this podcast. I love them. I would 202 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 2: never pretend otherwise. So go listen to these ads. 203 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 3: Okay we are back, Yeah, yeah, still here we are. 204 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel good. I feel good about 205 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: America today. You think so, you think you know. It's 206 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: not that we're heading in the right direction. We've never 207 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: been heading in a very good direction. The driver has 208 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: always been drunk right. And finally, forty five minutes into 209 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: the drive, he just was like, look, man, I'm not 210 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: doing great right now, and I'm not going to get 211 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: this car back home unless you bust open the center 212 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: console where I keep a handle of bourbon. And you're 213 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: scared of the driver because he has a gun and 214 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: you don't know what he'll do with it. You're not 215 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: even sure if he can really see you in anyway. 216 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: That's how it feels to watch the selection. 217 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 2: Let's talk about immigration, one of the other main main 218 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 2: topics in this debate. 219 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: And that went bad for Biden. 220 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 2: Trump had a fantastic line saying border patrol endorsed me 221 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 2: for president, but I won't say that, which. 222 00:10:54,760 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 1: Is amazing stuff. They both claimed Border Patrol endorsed them too. 223 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, the body Patrol itself doesn't make endorsements, right, but 224 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 3: the Bond and Patrol Union, which is worth the worst 225 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 3: accounts on Twitter, did clarify that they endorsed Trump. 226 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 2: So there was a lot of bad stuff with abortion. 227 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 2: I mean, James, did you do any thoughts overall and 228 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 2: the abortion discourse. 229 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 3: The debate, the immigration discourse. Yes, wow, there was a 230 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 3: real Biden moment for you. Garrett Garrison, Yeah, Garrison Davis 231 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 3: elderly members of podcast. 232 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: Somebody get Garrison as pet pills? 233 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 2: Oh god, I wish. 234 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, they're they're fog in the air and Atlanta tonight. 235 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 2: All right, the discourse over abord Jesus Christ. 236 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,839 Speaker 3: They're bringing abortions with him, Garrison, there's okay, there's a. 237 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: Pretty great onion headline report. Oh they're about to talk 238 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: about black people. 239 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 3: Oh god, yeah, yeah. Another fine moment of this debate, 240 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 3: the fucking black job sing yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, immigration 241 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 3: and talking immigration shit right, just real quick, Donald Trump 242 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 3: kept throwing out this eighteen million number. Fuck knows where 243 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 3: that comes from. Yeah, that was just all the numbers, 244 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 3: like fully, from the rectum to the debate stage. But 245 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 3: look by a patrol of reported nine point six encounters, 246 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 3: I've beaten this horse to death. But encounter does not 247 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 3: represent a unique individual. Right, people go and come back 248 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 3: when they get deported back, very common, both of them, 249 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 3: like like, the way I actually want to focus on 250 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 3: is the way that Jake Tappa framed that question, because 251 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 3: it was fucking atrocious, right, like it. He didn't frame 252 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:36,959 Speaker 3: it in a way in which either of them, if 253 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 3: they had wanted to, could offer a reasonable compassionate stance 254 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 3: and immigration. Right, it was positive as a terrible thing. 255 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 3: And yeah, you're foxy in it. And next time you 256 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 3: come dming me asking me. 257 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: The scummy scummy shit, Yeah, it was for the For 258 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: the record, Jake Tapper should be hit in the head 259 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: with a with a I don't know truck or something. 260 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 2: But podcaster Robert Evans threatens violence against see it at 261 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 2: anchor Jake Tire. 262 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: In a way he supported violence against me, So I 263 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: think I have that right with Jade. 264 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 3: That is true. 265 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: He's he's a dog shit journalist. And this was the 266 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: worst moderated debate because Trump is just lying. Everything he 267 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: says is absolutely full of shit. And half of the 268 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: shit that Biden says it's hard to tell what he 269 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: was even trying to say, and there was no attempt 270 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: to make it they they treated this like Werner Herzog 271 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: would have filmed it, right, But they're too Herzog would 272 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: have done this way because like, my job is not 273 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 1: to interfere here. My job is to let this unfold, right, 274 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: I don't need now. Herzog would interfere if that would 275 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: have made it a better story, but he loves collapse artists. 276 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 3: These people are journalists. 277 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, these people are journalists. And your job was to 278 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: attempt to both hold them accountable to some standard of 279 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: reality and also to attempt to present this in a 280 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: way that's intelligible, right, and you failed on both accounts. 281 00:13:57,880 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: You did bad jobs as journalists. 282 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 2: I think for me, the the best and worst line 283 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 2: of the debate in terms of like, oh wow, we're 284 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 2: really in it is is Trump saying that migrants are 285 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 2: taking black jobs, which is one of the most loaded 286 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 2: statements I've ever heard, because, for one, you know, it's 287 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 2: weird on like the migrant thing like that, that's really 288 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 2: your main compact jobs. 289 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 3: What is a black job? 290 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 2: What do you think he's applying there? 291 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: I think we know what he's there. 292 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 2: He's implying farm work. He's talking about like working in 293 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 2: the fields. 294 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: Low skilled jobs is what he is talking about. Yes, 295 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: that's how he sees this. But what I where I 296 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: think that came from. My suspicion is that because the 297 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: Trump campaign is still consistently extremely weak with black voters, right, 298 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: they've actually made a lot of inroads with Hispanic voters. 299 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: Trump in this debate, Yeah, they are still based on 300 00:14:57,760 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: all of the polling I've seen, they're about as bad 301 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: with black voters as they weren't twenty twenty. That really 302 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: has not moved what you have seen on that is 303 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: not really based in much of the way of evidence, 304 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: at least in terms of what polling can show us. 305 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: They know this is a weakness, and it's one that 306 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: they see as a significant strategic weakness. So at some 307 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: point Trump had a meeting with his campaign prep staff 308 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: and one of the things they wrote on a billboard 309 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: is they were spitballing ideas to get black voters was 310 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: migrants taking black jobs question mark, And that stayed in 311 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: Trump's head totally. They had a million better ways to 312 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: phrase it, but when the moment came up, That's how 313 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: he fucking ran. 314 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 2: That is no guarantee you exactly what happened. It just yes, totally. 315 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 2: It also displays a somehow extremely anti immigrant and extremely 316 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 2: racist at all the same time coming remarkable directions. It's 317 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 2: quite something. One another great line was human trafficking in women. 318 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 2: Another wonderus human trafficking in women. 319 00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: I'm glad. I'm glad that women do make the human 320 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: life though, Like that feels like progress, Garrison, we did it, Joe. 321 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 2: Anything else on the immigration front, I mean, it was 322 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 2: as bad as we would expect. Honestly, I thought that 323 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 2: bad would try to go further on the right on 324 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 2: immigration than what he ended up doing. Not saying he 325 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 2: did well on immigration, but I expected I expected Biden 326 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 2: to kind of to kind of push a little a 327 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 2: little bit more. 328 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: He's not comfortable with it, clearly because he made He 329 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: got so much of his win on highlighting the obvious 330 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: inhumanity of Trump's border policy, and he obviously has adopted 331 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: a policy that's very similar. 332 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean he tried to hit him on the 333 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 3: separation of families. Families are still fucking separated, Like I've 334 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 3: literally seen that this week. 335 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: Well, I just don't think he's I don't think he's 336 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: comfortable fighting Trump on this because I don't really think 337 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: he has a great feeling about their where they're separate 338 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: on the matter, right, So he's not comfortable with that 339 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: line of argument the way he is. Like Biden's best 340 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: moment was attacking him for like being shitty to dead soldiers, 341 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: and I was shocked that Trump followed him on that. 342 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: Fucking They talked about that so long. It was a huge. 343 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: It was as big as the economy. 344 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 2: They talked about like veterans for so long, and just 345 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 2: like weird circles that that was an interesting one. A 346 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 2: few other just fun lines that were thrown in, uh 347 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 2: Biden calling them the Paris piece accords, very cool, funny stuff. 348 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 2: Biden's saying that Trump has the mortals of an alley cat. 349 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 2: That's a great line. 350 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: That was a good line. 351 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 3: That's great. 352 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: That was That was again he this was number one. 353 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: He didn't slur any of us where I'm not saying 354 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,919 Speaker 1: that to be shitty, but it affects his performance. He 355 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: was very clear in the lean up of like these 356 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: are the he's a bad person, which he is. That's 357 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: a strong thing to hit him on. And I hope again, 358 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 1: we'll talk more about like will this matter? But I 359 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: hope strategically what the DIMS realizes that like that is 360 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: a to keep hitting him on because it actually matters 361 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 1: in terms of like how voters think of the guys. 362 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 1: It's it's a way to actually hurt Trump because he 363 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: is a really obviously shitty person. 364 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 2: One other thing Trump did in terms of you know, 365 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 2: this whole black jobs thing, is Trump did hammer Biden 366 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 2: on super predators. 367 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was interesting to say. 368 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 2: I feel like Trump actually did a did an okay 369 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 2: job there. And it's not me endorsing Trump's behavior, but 370 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 2: this is this is he like that was that was 371 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 2: a good move for him? 372 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: No, an interesting one too. I was kind of surprised 373 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: that he he went for it because that's like, yeah, 374 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: that was surprising. 375 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 2: Do you know what isn't surprising, Robert. 376 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: How much we love the sponsors of this podcast? Who 377 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: are you know? I often think of the president as 378 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: like a father, you know, or like my father during 379 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 1: different times. Right, Trump is like my father that time 380 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: he brought a home the movie Event Horizon, thinking it 381 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 1: would be like a fun little science fiction rop and 382 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: Biden is like my dad when he's snuck in the 383 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,360 Speaker 1: South Park movie, but he had not gotten the right 384 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: language version, so we couldn't actually watch it. 385 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 3: Right. 386 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 1: They're all they're different eras of everyone's dad. I don't 387 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 1: know these sponsors are our father. Anyway, We're back. 388 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 2: So one thing that I'm looking forward to is that 389 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 2: if Trump does get elected, he will settle the Ukraine 390 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 2: War as president elect. So that's great news for all 391 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 2: of us. I'm excited before he's even inaugurated. 392 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: Ukraine down that was really the Yeah, it's interesting to 393 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: see him kind of adopt the whole Ukraine has cooked. 394 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: They've lost all of their young men line. That's not 395 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: a great thing to hear in terms of like it's 396 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: exactly what Putin wants is eactly what Russia wants. It's 397 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: not accurate to like what we've actually seen on the ground, 398 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: which is another Russian defensive completely stall out because despite 399 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: what was supposed to be like an overwhelming advantage in 400 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: theater and artillery. But I don't think it matters. I 401 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 1: don't think that shit's gonna move the election. At the 402 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: end of the day. I could bitch about like US 403 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: policy in Eastern Europe, but nobody votes based on that. 404 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: I do, but nobody else does, right, like, and I 405 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: barely do. Like it's it's just not It's not a 406 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: needle mover in the same way that fucking inflation or 407 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 1: the economy or crime or the border is. 408 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 2: I mean, Trump was harping on it because he's just 409 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 2: trying to blame all of these new conflicts on Biden, 410 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 2: being like, all these things happened since Biden was president 411 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 2: and I was president. This wouldn't have happened, you know, magically, right, 412 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 2: And that's that's a very easy move for Trump, is 413 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 2: to bring up all of the bad things that have 414 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 2: happened since Biden's took office and say this is Biden's fault. 415 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 2: We have that with Ukraine, they talked they talked about 416 00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 2: Ukraine for like a really it was. 417 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: A shocking amount of the debate. 418 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 2: A decent a decent amount of the time, like way 419 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 2: way longer than they talked about Israel and Palestine, which 420 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 2: is kind of surprising to me. 421 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 3: Now. 422 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 2: I can understand how both them would want to just 423 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 2: avoid talking about that, but I'm surprised, like the moderators 424 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 2: like let that happen. 425 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,479 Speaker 1: I guess I don't think, I mean, the moderators let 426 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: everything happen. I think I put who I am surprised 427 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: about was Trump because he kept going back to Ukraine, 428 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: which is not a strong issue for him. Now Israel 429 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: Palestine really isn't either. Most Americans don't like what Israel 430 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: is doing. There's even a lot of like question about 431 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: that on the Republican side. So his choices are either 432 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: be all fucking genocide about it and alienate a lot 433 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: of moderates, or kind of hedge it and just try 434 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: to attack Biden for his performance, which is what he did, which. 435 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 2: Is which is which is what he did. 436 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, he didn't do much of it compared to getting 437 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: drawn again and again into arguments over NATO. I was 438 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: really surprised that he kept following Joe back to fucking NATO. 439 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: It was really weird. 440 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, there was a bizarre choice for him, like when 441 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 3: he had a million other places. His Trump's response on 442 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:12,880 Speaker 3: Palestine I want to talk about. 443 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: Oh, that was bleak. Absolutely, that was one of the 444 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 1: worst moments in this country's entire history. 445 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, that already said a new love for me. 446 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 1: And we've got like what eight seven to eight genocide, 447 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: So you know, pretty bad moment. 448 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's a country built on genocide. That 449 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 3: that one, That one was pretty pretty bad. 450 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: Yeah. 451 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 2: So basically Trump was harping on Biden for not being 452 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 2: pro genocide enough and said something that I really never 453 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 2: I did not see coming. He said that that Biden 454 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 2: has become like a Palestinian, A bad Palestinian. 455 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, a bad Palestinian because he doesn't do bad enough things. 456 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: What was that? What was the exact line that followed that? 457 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 2: So Trump says, quote, he's become like a Palestinian, but 458 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 2: a bad Palestinian because they don't like him very much. 459 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: There you go, thank you. We needed the whole thought. 460 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 2: He's a weak one. 461 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, the Palestinians don't like him, and I hate the Palestinians, 462 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: but you should be liked by your own pe. I'm 463 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: trying to put together the logic here. 464 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 2: It was. 465 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 3: It was really bad. 466 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 2: But like basically using Palestinian as an insult to Biden, 467 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 2: you know that's not great. Trump also had a lie 468 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 2: how quote the Palestinians and everyone are rioting right now. Yeah, 469 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 2: I assume who was I think he's referring to the 470 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 2: campus protests, just calling everyone at those protests Palestinians, which 471 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 2: is a really interesting like political move. 472 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, and a dangerous one potentially. 473 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:47,880 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 474 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, we knock on wood whenever we may have wood. 475 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: That's a good Trump line. That's a good Trump line. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 476 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: And James, James was giving him ship for that earlier. 477 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: But this is the this is you and your Ivory tower. 478 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: A lot of people don't have wood. You know, Ben 479 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: Shapiro could only afford one board. 480 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,880 Speaker 3: That's true, Yeah, ben cheron wood once. Yeah, that's exactly right. 481 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 3: You know, small amount of wood at that he was 482 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 3: lucky enough to find it. 483 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 1: We can't all. 484 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 3: He put his wood in a little bag. 485 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 2: So this was a this was a bit on healthcare, 486 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 2: right or. 487 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 3: Garrison. It did well. 488 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: He was yeah, he was talking about being healthy and 489 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: he was like, yeah, I'm still healthy. You know, knock 490 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: on wood. We all knock on wood where we find 491 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,239 Speaker 1: wood or something like that. But he was being we 492 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: have wood. He was kind of trying to Actually this 493 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,479 Speaker 1: may be a little bit of like a fuck up 494 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: by him because he was hitting Biden pretty successfully in 495 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: Biden's age, but then he dropped a line so baffling 496 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: that it was like it focused where I was like, 497 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 1: what do you mean by this? 498 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 2: They were talking about. Yeah, they're talking about being in 499 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 2: good health. And that's and that's where they got into 500 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 2: the little golf argument and wait, who would who would? 501 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 2: Who would play golf better? And yeah, if if Trump 502 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 2: could carry his own golf clubs. A really good line 503 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 2: was we bought a certain dog. 504 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that was we bought a certain dog. You 505 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 3: wouldn't believe it, a. 506 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: Dog that can sniff. And then he just kept talking 507 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: about machines that can sniff. 508 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 3: Thin Why it's talking about these these machines that they 509 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 3: have to suppose to detect fens on the border, which 510 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 3: they've spent millions of dollars on. But they've been doing 511 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 3: this since a Trump administration, Like this is not a 512 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 3: new thing. It was in his border bill. But there's 513 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 3: nothing compared to we we bought a certain dog. 514 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,959 Speaker 1: Oh god, have you guys seen the dark Brandon secret sauce? 515 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 2: No Robert share this immediately? 516 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I've just shed he's lost Jeff tedrig which. 517 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: Is there's a there's a post that Joe made right 518 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: before the debate would have started that I'm just gonna 519 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: send it to the chat while I describe it to 520 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: the listener. It's Joe with like a can in his 521 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: hand and it's a cantlash home God damage. I'm on 522 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: the Joe Biden water. No, so he's got He's got 523 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: a can of this. It's like a water in a 524 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: beer can, and it's called zero Malarkey Biden, and it's 525 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: got a dark branded image with a laser eyes. Get real, Jack, 526 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: it's just water. And then Biden's actual tak says, I 527 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: don't know what they have got these performance and answers, 528 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: but I'm feeling pretty jacked up. Trying for yourself, folks. 529 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: And for four dollars and sixty cents you can get 530 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: a looks like one can of Biden water. The se 531 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: I'm on the website now the secret to a good 532 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 1: debate performance staying hydrated. The same performance and answers Joe 533 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: Biden took before going on stage. 534 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 3: We need to get just get a company cost on this, guys. 535 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get wrecked because he looked fucked up. 536 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 3: I've got some experience with performance, you know, hunting to 537 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 3: device drug users in my career. 538 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: This is if any I miss having a good GHB hookup, 539 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: you know, this would be that I feel like that 540 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: would get me on Joe's level, right. 541 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 3: I think only a brain injury could get you on 542 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:16,199 Speaker 3: Joe's level right now. 543 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 1: That's why I brought up GHB. 544 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 2: The last topic I want to discuss in terms of 545 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,439 Speaker 2: what was talked about at the debate is January sixth, 546 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 2: and Trump kind of tried to avoid the question over 547 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 2: whether he would concede the election, saying that he would 548 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 2: only if it was a fair election. 549 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: Only if it was a fair election. 550 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 2: But Trump's line on January sixth, let me tell you 551 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 2: about January sixth. We had great borders on January. 552 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: Sixth, oh, that whole speed. 553 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 2: We had a great economy on January sixth. 554 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,640 Speaker 3: It is very funny. I should post some pictures I took. 555 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 3: I took them just after January sixth. I took in 556 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 3: the week of Biden's election of the border, well, just 557 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 3: stopping in random places, like where they got to a 558 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 3: certain level of construction and just stopped. 559 00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 4: Like. 560 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 2: We found Trump's direction here kind of interesting. He tried 561 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 2: to kind of really avoid talking about his own opinions 562 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 2: on the actual Capital insurrection. His very first reaction was 563 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 2: to say, no, well, the rest of the country was 564 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 2: doing so much better because I was the president. The 565 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 2: moderators kind of forced him to talk a little bit 566 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 2: about it, but he really avoided it as much as 567 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 2: he could, which is, you know, he doesn't want to 568 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 2: alienate his base. He also doesn't want to like, uh, 569 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 2: you know, be too pro J six and scare away 570 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,640 Speaker 2: like independence, so he was really skirting that line. It's 571 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 2: just weird because moderators were so much stronger on this 572 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 2: question during the debate primaries for the GOP, Yeah, which 573 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 2: which Trump wasn't even present for. They really harped on 574 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 2: this here and on this they did not care at all. 575 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 2: They really they really did not push pushed Trump on 576 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 2: on J six whatsoever. And it was it was kind 577 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 2: of pathetic. 578 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, no, no, it was. 579 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 4: It was. 580 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 3: It was terrible, Like the moderators could well, they didn't 581 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 3: moderate at all. They just asked some questions and then 582 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 3: let it fucking rip. 583 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 2: I think let's just move on to finally talking like 584 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 2: the debate in general. I think the GOP will probably 585 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 2: be pretty happy with Trump's performance here. 586 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, he did what he needed to. 587 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 2: They're gonna call us a dub. I think the Democrats 588 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 2: are probably kind of scrambling right now trying to figure 589 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 2: out what the next move is. 590 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: I hope it's possible for someone to be like we 591 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: got time. Throw Pritzkern, throw fucking wit Marin. You know 592 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: either of them, right I honestly you know you know Robert. 593 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 2: This is this is how Birdie can still win. 594 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: I know he's too fucking old. I don't. I will 595 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: say I think he probably based on the last time 596 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: I saw him speak, I think he probably would have 597 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: done better than Joe did in this. But not if 598 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: he had a cold, right, Like, that's the thing. I 599 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: believe Joe has a cold and that that's why he 600 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: sounded like shit. But you know what, A strong young 601 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: person with a cold could pull it together for an 602 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: hour he write down. That's he could lock down. This 603 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: is we shouldn't have to plane like it's not. I 604 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: don't give a shit. Old people shouldn't be the fucking president. 605 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: They shouldn't old people should not be the fucking president. 606 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: Past the past the point at which I feel like 607 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: if somebody, like if I was if we were helping 608 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: you move and I was like carrying something heavy and 609 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: I turned around, I slapped you in the face with 610 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: like a board or something or a piece of furniture. 611 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: If I have to be worried that your skull is 612 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: gonna crack, you shouldn't be the fucking president. You should 613 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: be able to Like I should feel confident that you 614 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: can jumpstart a car without blowing up my battery, you know, 615 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: Like I don't feel that for either of these men. 616 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: They both look unwell. 617 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, if you let these people go into supermarket, they 618 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 3: would be lost. 619 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's not good. It's so. 620 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 2: I know a lot of people make jokes about this, right, 621 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 2: people love joking about how old they are and go here. 622 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 3: I was shocked. 623 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 2: I was shocked at how bad Biden did this debate. 624 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: He looked so bad. He looked so bad. 625 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 2: It was one of his worst public speaking outings. Horrible, 626 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 2: like in a long time. 627 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 1: Look like I yeah, I am not competent to diagnose shit, 628 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: but I lived with my grandfather for the last ten 629 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: years as he died of Parkinson's, and it's there's a 630 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: shuffle you get to recognize, right, Like, I don't know 631 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: if it's Parkinson's, but he's not a well old man. 632 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: He's a sick old man, and he shouldn't be president. 633 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 2: There is there is a reason I put candidate collapses 634 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 2: on stage on my Bingo card, which we did not get, 635 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 2: but we sure got close. 636 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: Were got close, very close. 637 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 2: I filled out almost all my Bingo card, it was 638 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 2: and I did not pick easy ones too. You can 639 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 2: you can check me on this. You can check you 640 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 2: can check the card on Twitter. And I yeah, I was, 641 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 2: I was h just I just felt really bad. 642 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: I feel terrible. I wanted to ask half that debate, Gear, 643 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: how do you feel about getting your citizenship? You jazzed, Well, 644 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: this is a great this is a great, proud time, 645 00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:59,959 Speaker 1: proud time to become an American. 646 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,959 Speaker 2: It is better than it's better than it's better than 647 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 2: only having a green card. 648 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 4: Yeah. 649 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 3: True, I can tell you it's just someone who recently 650 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 3: upgraded to American status. It is at least it's a 651 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 3: little bit less concerning with a shit that Trump is saying. Yeah, 652 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 3: and oh Biden. 653 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 2: Well, any any final thoughts. 654 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: I hope Gavin Newsom doesn't pull out a way to 655 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: become the president. I don't want him to be the president. 656 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 2: He is going to be the My prediction is he 657 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 2: will be the twenty twenty eight nominee. 658 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: He's a very good chance. Really hard, it's between the 659 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: smart option based on where we stand now. For now 660 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: war for twenty twenty eight is Pritzker. I think Whitmer 661 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: would also be a great pick. Pritzker is really good 662 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: with conservatives, and he's really good with conservatives without like 663 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: folding completely on shit, whereas Whittmer has some weakness just 664 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: because of how much time has been directed in attacking 665 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: her over like the COVID twenty twenty shit. But either 666 00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: of them I think are strong candidates who are a 667 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 1: lot better than Gavin Newsom. But you are right, he's 668 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: going to be a strong candidate in twenty twenty eight. 669 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 2: Well, I think that does it for me, at least 670 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 2: here on it could happen here. 671 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: Well, let's talk real briefly. Do we think that debate matters? 672 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: Do Do we think that this is a thing that 673 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: is going to turn an election? I think it can. 674 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 2: Yes, I think it actually does. I think I think 675 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 2: this could actually hurt some voter enthusiasm. I think people 676 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 2: who are maybe looking at Biden and being like, yeah, 677 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 2: probably if he keeps performing like this, people might just 678 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 2: not vote for him. Not they probably maybe some of 679 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 2: them might move over to Trump if they're like weird, 680 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 2: like independence, Many of them just might not vote at all. 681 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 2: Like I think if if Biden shows that he is 682 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 2: just kind of a bumbling, in like incompetent old man, 683 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 2: that's not gonna help an already kind of die your 684 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 2: situation in terms of voter enthusiasm and possible voter turnout. 685 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think this actually does have a decent 686 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 2: chance to hurt Biden. I don't think the debates will 687 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 2: necessarily hurt Trump. 688 00:33:59,080 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 3: I don't. 689 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 2: I don't think on thiscessarily help Trump, like majorly, but 690 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 2: I think they can subtract support away from Biden. 691 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: See that's where and I don't I don't have a 692 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,359 Speaker 1: strong feeling on which way this is going to land either, 693 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: you know, in either case. But some of the data 694 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,760 Speaker 1: we're seeing, particularly how well Trump performs relative to Biden 695 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: on voters who are like not sure they're going to vote, right, 696 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: I think this might be the first election where a 697 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 1: higher turnout would be bad for Biden. But I also 698 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: don't know. I think if any if this depresses I 699 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: think you are right that if this depresses turnout, it's 700 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,319 Speaker 1: going to be worse. It's going to be Biden turnout, right, 701 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: Although I mean, yeah, I just don't know, I feel 702 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 1: like I don't want to do the easy thing would 703 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,359 Speaker 1: be to just like pick a lane and stay in it. 704 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,240 Speaker 1: And but I if it comes to my honest opinion, 705 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: I still have no fucking clue how this is going 706 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,720 Speaker 1: to go. Because at no point has this been election 707 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: been about do you think Joe Biden will be a 708 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 1: good president? It's been about are you scared of Donald Trump? 709 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:01,879 Speaker 4: Right? 710 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: I don't know that you're less scared. I think the 711 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 1: worry for Biden is that people are now more scared 712 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: that he is going to sleepwalk his way through a 713 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,280 Speaker 1: nuclear war as opposed to Trump at least being lucid 714 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: for it. But I just don't know how that's going 715 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 1: to actually shake out in the long run. 716 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 2: God bless the USA. 717 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:21,720 Speaker 1: We're doing great. 718 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:23,959 Speaker 3: The conventions are going to be great. 719 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:29,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, stay tuned. He could be dead in a week. 720 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 2: That really is like the wild car that. 721 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: He could be dead tonight. 722 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,879 Speaker 2: Sur on the back of my brain all the time 723 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 2: is like either one of these guys, especially Biden, could 724 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 2: just like not exist tomorrow, Like he could he could 725 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 2: just he could have He could get a little too 726 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 2: stressed out and just kind of fall over. 727 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 3: I mean, they could meaningfully make the argument tomorrow that like, 728 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 3: that's been a significant decline in his health and he 729 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,359 Speaker 3: is not physically capable of being president because that's what 730 00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 3: we saw, Like, yeah, he doesn't. 731 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,799 Speaker 2: He if he was, I don't think they will. 732 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 1: If the things, whatever things you consider worst, And for 733 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 1: me with Biden, it's it's the border in Palestine. But 734 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 1: if whatever things you consider worst about Biden weren't a thing, 735 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: I would purely be like for this man's health and safety, 736 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: get him out of this job, get him somewhere comfortable, 737 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: let him enjoy his final years, don't make him do this. Yeah, anyway, 738 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 1: it's good, It's not right. 739 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 3: Fuck, part of me wants to read this Jeff ted 740 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 3: Rich tweet to finish at a certain point. 741 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: We're all complicit in elder abuse. But I guess they 742 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: but we are for both of them. Yeah, like in 743 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,760 Speaker 1: some ways, in some ways, the American system is pushing 744 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 1: these two sick old men towards a disastrous. 745 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 2: That's also why I can't trust anything they see on 746 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 2: social Security because they clearly have a vested interest. 747 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 3: Uh, I can't see. I will say, we saw the 748 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 3: president of Bolivia face down a coup yesterday. I think 749 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 3: that that would not be possible for either of these 750 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:03,399 Speaker 3: men in. 751 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:07,360 Speaker 1: God. 752 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,720 Speaker 2: All right, I want to go cry and go to sleep. 753 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's good. That's good. 754 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 3: Make some friends, guys. I'm gonna keep drinking. Yeah, good, 755 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 3: little mutual aid. 756 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I'm gonna buy some of the Biden water 757 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: with company money. 758 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 5: Hello, Welcome to Eat Could Happen Here? We're doing it again. 759 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 5: Several months back, I did an episode about corn, which 760 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 5: I personally think was a huge hit. And I did 761 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 5: that episode with the intention of making this food series 762 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 5: Eat Could Happen Here into an actual series about food 763 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 5: and not just a silly one off pun. In all honesty, though, 764 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,720 Speaker 5: I wrote and recorded that corn episode before October seventh, 765 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 5: even though we ended up releasing it afterwards around Thanksgiving, 766 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 5: because since October seventh there have been much more pressing 767 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 5: things I need people to know about and learn about 768 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 5: and keep talking about, namely the genocide happening in Palestine. 769 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,359 Speaker 5: And I will keep talking about it because we all 770 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 5: have to keep talking about it. But I'm learning that 771 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 5: in between my episodes where I talk about the most 772 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 5: horrific things I've ever seen or read about or heard about, 773 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 5: my brain needs to go into silly mode or else 774 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 5: I will simply eject myself into outer space. And one 775 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 5: of those silly things I've decided will be the how 776 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 5: did we get here? Of food, which I personally find 777 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 5: very fascinating, as is the history of all things is 778 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 5: very fascinating, namely the history of how Palestine has been 779 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 5: illegally occupied by a settler colony ethno state for nearly 780 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 5: a century of genocide and ethnic cleansing, and how no 781 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 5: one had any right to claim land as their own 782 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 5: that was already inhabited by indigenous people. But I digress. 783 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 5: We have other episodes about that, and we will continue 784 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 5: to have episodes about it. But today we're going to 785 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 5: be talking about something which, in comparison, is objectively kind 786 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 5: of stupid. We're gonna be talking about sea Yur trends. 787 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 5: I want to blame and or give credit to James 788 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,840 Speaker 5: Stout for suggesting this topic very enthusiastically when I mentioned 789 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 5: wanting to do an episode about food, and because I 790 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 5: personally don't believe I've ever had sea urchin, or maybe 791 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 5: my brain has deleted that memory to make room for 792 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,839 Speaker 5: the worst things I've ever seen, I've brought James here 793 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 5: today to walk along or dare I say, swim along 794 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,840 Speaker 5: with us on this Sea Urchin journey and to impart 795 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 5: on us his never ending knowledge on basically everything. So welcome, James, 796 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 5: Thank you Sheen. 797 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 3: That's very nice and true. 798 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,760 Speaker 5: It's the truth. You suggested this very very enthusiastically. 799 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,320 Speaker 3: I did diggest enthusiastic. I was just throwing to the 800 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 3: never ending knowledge on it, the everything part. 801 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 5: Well, I genuinely anything I bring up. You have a 802 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 5: story about which I find very impressive. So it's just 803 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 5: the truth. You know a lot of things in that 804 00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,040 Speaker 5: brain versus me, I delete things pretty. 805 00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:04,359 Speaker 3: Fam I've deleted some shit. I don't suggest braging your 806 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,760 Speaker 3: brain into your skull if you want to retain information. 807 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 3: That's something I've done a little bit too much in 808 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 3: my life. 809 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I think that's wise. But anyway, the Sea Urchin, 810 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,919 Speaker 5: maybe y'all know it as UNI, but actually the sea 811 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 5: urchin and Uni are not synonymous words, and they do 812 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 5: not mean the same thing. UNI is actually only a 813 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 5: small part of the sea urchin, the edible part, and 814 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 5: we will get into exactly what it is later on, 815 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,719 Speaker 5: but its flavor seems to be quite distinct. In twenty sixteen, 816 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 5: Nesley described UNI as one of the top ten food 817 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,880 Speaker 5: trends due to its unique flavor. Some people describe the 818 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 5: taste as rich and complex. Others describe it as having 819 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 5: a rich, buttery flavor that is often compared to that 820 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 5: of fois gras. 821 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,400 Speaker 3: But right, magic, Yeah, thank you for taking my French lessons. 822 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 1: Thank you. 823 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,400 Speaker 5: It has a slightly sweet and briny taste that is 824 00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 5: unique to sea urchin. James, how would you describe it 825 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 5: someone who has had the urchin? 826 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like ocean butter. I think like it's kind 827 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 3: of buttery nurse, but like also like a briny kind 828 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 3: of essence of the sea. Noess, Everything tastes good when 829 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,439 Speaker 3: you're like like sitting on the rocks eating it, you know, like, yeah, 830 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:16,319 Speaker 3: this is the thing. 831 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,280 Speaker 5: I like to do, refreshing or something. 832 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, And like it's nice to get your own food, 833 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 3: isn't it. Like it's nice to it's nice to go 834 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 3: to the bottom of the ocean and grab a sea 835 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 3: urchin and then bring him back up and eat him. 836 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,480 Speaker 3: And you know, know that you're also helping to preserve 837 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 3: the kelp, so like you have a little aura around it, 838 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 3: which we're going to talk about I'm sure. Yeah, I 839 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 3: think I think ocean butter. I've never really been one 840 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,080 Speaker 3: to like bring it home. I know people do pasta 841 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:45,319 Speaker 3: sauces with it. Yeah, I'm not a big pasta sauce maker, 842 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 3: so I'll just normally crack them open, or you know, 843 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,120 Speaker 3: get some friends around, open them up, and then you 844 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,200 Speaker 3: get one. You get a nice shell. You kind of 845 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:53,880 Speaker 3: you keep that one nice and you do like a 846 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 3: little little kind of salca or something in there with 847 00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:58,799 Speaker 3: the uni, or you just put the oonie in there 848 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,440 Speaker 3: and people dip into it. Wow, it's a nice little presentation. 849 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,320 Speaker 5: A whole new world. I had no idea. 850 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you have to come down and dreamed. And 851 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 3: now we'll do a live podcast everyone from me. 852 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,320 Speaker 5: No, I don't know. I don't after learning about them. 853 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 5: They might be too cute for me to eat, but 854 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:17,399 Speaker 5: I guess we'll just keep talking. 855 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:19,800 Speaker 3: That's going to make me sad if that's the case. 856 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,279 Speaker 5: There's just one that I keep thinking about called the 857 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,240 Speaker 5: sea potato, which we'll get into later. But it's so cute. 858 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 5: I can't stop thinking about the sea potato. But anyway, 859 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 5: we'll get into that in a second. According to Food 860 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 5: in Life, magazine Oonie is complicated. They say, if you 861 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,480 Speaker 5: know unie, there's a chance you love it. There's also 862 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 5: a chance you took one look at this creamy yellow 863 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,840 Speaker 5: seafood and decided it would never enter your mouth. In 864 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,240 Speaker 5: the same article I found, they say that some people 865 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 5: say it's sweet and buttery, with icy, cold raw unie 866 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,160 Speaker 5: and sushi as their preferred method to enjoy it. And 867 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,160 Speaker 5: apparently it also tastes delicious when it's lightly cooked or steamed. 868 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,879 Speaker 5: And some say, as you just said, kind of that 869 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:02,840 Speaker 5: the flavor evokes a dip in salt water. So yeah, 870 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:08,080 Speaker 5: very very poetic there. But again, maybe the most popular 871 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,839 Speaker 5: way y'all have seen sea urchin is being served as 872 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:16,399 Speaker 5: sushi ni uni. Sushi is a delicacy that has gained 873 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,520 Speaker 5: popularity around the world, and the dish consists of the 874 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:23,080 Speaker 5: sea urchin being raw and with rice sushi. 875 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:23,520 Speaker 3: Wow. 876 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,920 Speaker 5: A cute little bite. But the history of our little 877 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,640 Speaker 5: sea urchin is a humble one and its journey to 878 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:34,080 Speaker 5: become a global delicacy has been slow and steady. We're 879 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,120 Speaker 5: going to take a look at the history of the 880 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 5: sea urchin as a food source and its cultural significance. 881 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,919 Speaker 5: So are you ready, buckle. 882 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,880 Speaker 3: Up, there we go okay unbuckled. 883 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 5: The sea urchin has its roots in Japan, where it 884 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 5: has been enjoyed for centuries. The first known mention of 885 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 5: sea urchin as a food source dates back to the 886 00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 5: Edo period, spanning between sixteen oh three and eighteen sixty eight. 887 00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 5: During this period, the sea urchin was consumed by the 888 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:08,600 Speaker 5: samurai class. The sea urchin has other cultural significances in Japan. 889 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 5: The sea urchin is associated with the ocean and is 890 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,479 Speaker 5: considered a symbol of good luck and prosperity. It's also 891 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:17,560 Speaker 5: believed to have a number of health benefits, including improved 892 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,880 Speaker 5: skin health and increased fertility. However, it wasn't until the 893 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,759 Speaker 5: twentieth century that the sea urchin became popular as a 894 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,960 Speaker 5: sushi ingredient. Sea urchin was used and is still used 895 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:33,240 Speaker 5: today in Japanese cuisine. More broadly, it's used in soups 896 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:37,280 Speaker 5: and rice bowls, and it's often served in traditional kaiseki meals. 897 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,920 Speaker 5: A kaiseki meal is basically a traditional multi course Japanese dinner. 898 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,239 Speaker 5: This term fun fact also refers to the collection of 899 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,800 Speaker 5: skills and techniques that allow the preparation of such meals. 900 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:51,799 Speaker 5: In addition to the sea urchin being an ingredient in 901 00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:55,440 Speaker 5: Japanese cuisine, the harvesting and processing of sea urchin is 902 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,360 Speaker 5: an important industry in many coastal regions of Japan. So 903 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,520 Speaker 5: even though it's served raw, usually as sushi, as James said, 904 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,719 Speaker 5: it's used in a variety of ways, like in sauces, pastas, 905 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,480 Speaker 5: and on bread for centuries. Modern day chefs are even 906 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,360 Speaker 5: transforming it now into foam and moose. 907 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:13,440 Speaker 4: Moose. 908 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:16,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, I ain't got time for that shit. I hate. 909 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:19,920 Speaker 3: I'm sure it looks pretty well. It looks rat it's 910 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:21,840 Speaker 3: very orange. If you've not seen it, I mean, you 911 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,360 Speaker 3: get on Google and that's you're driving and look for 912 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,839 Speaker 3: a picture of it. Maybe I'll maybe I'll post one. 913 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,440 Speaker 3: People use it as a thumbnail for this episode. 914 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,920 Speaker 5: I mean, I did watch the harvesting. I had never 915 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,920 Speaker 5: seen it being harvested before, so I saw that. But 916 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,040 Speaker 5: the color is like crazy from the jump, Like as 917 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:39,600 Speaker 5: soon as you crack it open, it's just like this 918 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:40,880 Speaker 5: crazy bright color. 919 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,160 Speaker 3: I never Yeah, I mean they're purple, the ones that 920 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,799 Speaker 3: the ones you're getting in California are purple. There are 921 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,120 Speaker 3: red some purples, but you want to be hitting the purples. Yeah, 922 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,080 Speaker 3: if you're diving in California, so will your foot. Your 923 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,319 Speaker 3: foot will be purple. If you stand on one. It 924 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,239 Speaker 3: is a bad day if you've you stand on the 925 00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:59,200 Speaker 3: sea urchin, so it'll spine can go in and break. 926 00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:03,799 Speaker 3: I've done that a couple Uh. Yeah, yeah, don't be 927 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,120 Speaker 3: doing that and getting affections learned from my mistakes. 928 00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, please do. But when it does come to sushi, 929 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,160 Speaker 5: the sea urchin was considered a cheap and plentiful ingredient 930 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,680 Speaker 5: for a long time, and it was often used in 931 00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:19,759 Speaker 5: sushi rolls alongside other more expensive ingredient just fill out 932 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,280 Speaker 5: the role. However, as the taste for sea urchin grew, 933 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,240 Speaker 5: sushi chefs began to showcase it as a standalone ingredient. 934 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,160 Speaker 5: Hard launched as an ingredient everyone liked. Today, it's enjoyed 935 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,600 Speaker 5: around the world, as I said, and considered a delicacy. 936 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,480 Speaker 5: It's often served in high end restaurants, and it can 937 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,080 Speaker 5: get to be quite expensive because of its rarity and 938 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,719 Speaker 5: the difficulty of sourcing high quality sea urchin. Because, as 939 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,120 Speaker 5: with many things, sea urchin is safe to eat as 940 00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,360 Speaker 5: long as it is prepared properly, it's important to ensure 941 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,640 Speaker 5: the urchin is fresh and has been handled and stored correctly. 942 00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:56,200 Speaker 5: Let's get a little bit more scientific. I'm gonna mispronounce 943 00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,800 Speaker 5: a bunch of stuff coming up, so oops. Sea urchins 944 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,080 Speaker 5: are globe shaped little creatures that live on the ocean floor. 945 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,920 Speaker 5: Sea urchins belong to a group of marine invertebrates called 946 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:12,520 Speaker 5: a kinoderms, which means spiky skinned. Animals in this group 947 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:17,360 Speaker 5: also include sea cucumbers, sea lillies, brittle stars, and starfish 948 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:18,920 Speaker 5: aka sea stars. 949 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,760 Speaker 3: This is some of my favorite little under underwater creatures. 950 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:23,879 Speaker 5: What a cute little group. 951 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:25,600 Speaker 3: I love it. Yeah, I love to see a se 952 00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:30,359 Speaker 3: by discuking alone a starfish, you know, like I love. 953 00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:31,920 Speaker 3: Who doesn't love to see a starfish? 954 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:32,359 Speaker 5: Yeah? 955 00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,200 Speaker 3: Leave them alone. Don't touch the starfish. 956 00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, please just leave them be. They didn't do anything 957 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,080 Speaker 5: to you. They just want to live and. 958 00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:40,520 Speaker 3: They sing down. 959 00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,080 Speaker 5: There're the biggest chillers, you know. 960 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, they did nothing wrong. I will stab you if 961 00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:46,279 Speaker 3: you mess with the starfish. 962 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,799 Speaker 5: I respect that. The spherical shells of sea urchins are 963 00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,960 Speaker 5: called tests, and they're made up of plates and movable 964 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,400 Speaker 5: spines that protect them from predators. Sea urchins can be 965 00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,680 Speaker 5: found in all of the Earth's oceans, and they first 966 00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:04,640 Speaker 5: appeared as a species around four hundred and fifty million 967 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,600 Speaker 5: years ago. One of the groups present in our oceans 968 00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,839 Speaker 5: today a word I will mispronounced right now, but it 969 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,120 Speaker 5: was the first to evolve. It was the sadairo dia. 970 00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,719 Speaker 5: Let's go with that. Start to the sea. You can 971 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,880 Speaker 5: look it up if you want, but it appeared about 972 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,840 Speaker 5: two hundred and sixty eight million years ago. These primitive 973 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:27,160 Speaker 5: sea urchins, they often have stubby, rounded off spines. A 974 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,319 Speaker 5: second group of sea urchins are called a kinodea, and 975 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,960 Speaker 5: they evolved a little later, and they include the spiky 976 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,799 Speaker 5: creatures you probably are more familiar with. This subclass is 977 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:41,000 Speaker 5: known as the quote modern sea urchin. The most recognizable 978 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,400 Speaker 5: sea urchins are round, often brightly colored, and covered in 979 00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:48,359 Speaker 5: these sharp looking spines. In fact, urchin comes from an 980 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:52,480 Speaker 5: old word for hedgehog, and because they look like hedgehogs 981 00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,120 Speaker 5: with their little spiky armors. 982 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,320 Speaker 3: Fun it didn't edit, Yeah, I love a hedgehog. Hedgehog 983 00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:57,799 Speaker 3: is one of those. 984 00:48:58,680 --> 00:48:59,959 Speaker 5: They're the urchins of the land. 985 00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,759 Speaker 3: They look they're not because they're not like they're not 986 00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,040 Speaker 3: proud relaying the ecosystem that. 987 00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:09,000 Speaker 5: I didn't mean it completely. Literally, they look like little orchins, 988 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:09,760 Speaker 5: but they're all rounded. 989 00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:11,600 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they kind of do. There's one that visits 990 00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:13,879 Speaker 3: my dad, oh pretty often. It lives by his house 991 00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:15,080 Speaker 3: and he sends me videos of it. 992 00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:16,000 Speaker 5: That's cute. 993 00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he gives it like a dog food. 994 00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:19,719 Speaker 3: We used to give them milk when I was. 995 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:25,400 Speaker 5: Another example of me saying literally anything and James, sorry, 996 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:27,439 Speaker 5: don't apologize. It's great. 997 00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:29,840 Speaker 3: I want people to know that you shouldn't give them 998 00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,000 Speaker 3: bread and milk, that you should and said give them 999 00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:32,719 Speaker 3: wet dog food. 1000 00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:34,879 Speaker 5: Okay, good to know. Did not know that. 1001 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, if you come across one, they're legal in California. Though, 1002 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,000 Speaker 3: fucking I'm doing it again. Sorry, you're doing it again. 1003 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,759 Speaker 5: I learned so much whatever conversation I have. But back 1004 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:47,640 Speaker 5: to the species of sea urchins. There are over one 1005 00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:51,360 Speaker 5: thousand species of sea urchins, and they have varying characteristics. 1006 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,799 Speaker 5: They inhabit a wide range of depth zones and all 1007 00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,760 Speaker 5: climates across the world's oceans, and only eighteen of them 1008 00:49:58,840 --> 00:49:59,840 Speaker 5: are actually edible. 1009 00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:01,040 Speaker 3: It's interesting. 1010 00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,360 Speaker 5: Most modern sea urchins are round, as I said, but 1011 00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:08,000 Speaker 5: about a quarter of them have modified that body plan massively. 1012 00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,080 Speaker 5: For example, there are sea urchins who evolved into a 1013 00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:15,000 Speaker 5: flotter shape and have smaller spines that adapted to life 1014 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:18,680 Speaker 5: burrowing in the sand. You can get really weird shapes 1015 00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,279 Speaker 5: of these deep sea urchins with strange bodies that don't 1016 00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,719 Speaker 5: look at anything else. We don't know much about these 1017 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,160 Speaker 5: deep sea urchins yet because they're very hard to reach 1018 00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:28,560 Speaker 5: and they're very fragile, and this makes it very difficult 1019 00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,120 Speaker 5: for people to study them on the surface. 1020 00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,319 Speaker 3: I think this is a great If you are a 1021 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,440 Speaker 3: billionaire and you are listening to this podcast, you could 1022 00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,640 Speaker 3: have a sea urchin species named after you. All you 1023 00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,960 Speaker 3: need to do is create a submarine, fill it with 1024 00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,640 Speaker 3: other wealthy people, and then take it to the bottom 1025 00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,280 Speaker 3: of the ocean to study sea urchins. 1026 00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:48,319 Speaker 5: You know what else should go into the bottom of 1027 00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:48,840 Speaker 5: the ocean. 1028 00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,640 Speaker 3: It's in the products and services to support the Yes, 1029 00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,759 Speaker 3: how kind of you. It's not hedgehogs. They don't belong there, 1030 00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:02,359 Speaker 3: none them matter this. Hopefully it's a hedgehog advert Fuck 1031 00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,840 Speaker 3: the police, get a hedgehog in California, acab. 1032 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,040 Speaker 5: And we're back. I had just talked about some irregular 1033 00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,440 Speaker 5: shaped sea urchins before the break, and an example of 1034 00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,400 Speaker 5: this kind of sea urchin is actually the sand dollar. 1035 00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,680 Speaker 5: Sand dollars are much flatter than other urchins, and this 1036 00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:32,400 Speaker 5: is an adaptation that just better suited their environment. Like 1037 00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:36,360 Speaker 5: most ecnoderms, sea urchins have an internal skeleton called a test. 1038 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,399 Speaker 5: A sea urchins test is made up of a type 1039 00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:43,040 Speaker 5: of calcium carbonate called sterium, which is a porous structure 1040 00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:46,520 Speaker 5: that holds the urchin together like jigsaw pieces cemented in place. 1041 00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:51,000 Speaker 5: Sea urchin tests have five symmetrical parts arranged around a 1042 00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:54,440 Speaker 5: central point, like segments of an orange, and this shape 1043 00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,279 Speaker 5: isn't always obvious from the living creature, but it can 1044 00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:01,600 Speaker 5: be seen on their skeleton when it's dried. Yeah, I 1045 00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,200 Speaker 5: found this next bit kind of cute and funny and 1046 00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:08,120 Speaker 5: the little sad. But sea urchins can't swim. They live 1047 00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:11,800 Speaker 5: and move along the seafloor, favoring hard surfaces like coral 1048 00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:15,879 Speaker 5: and rocks. They have appendages called tube feet, and they 1049 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,520 Speaker 5: often have suckers at the tips of these feet. The 1050 00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,440 Speaker 5: sea urchin uses the hydraulic pressure of water moving in 1051 00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,360 Speaker 5: and out of their little tube feet to move about slowly. 1052 00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:28,359 Speaker 5: They can also propel themselves with their spines. That's pretty 1053 00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:32,200 Speaker 5: impressive because they don't have brains, and that's another fun 1054 00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:33,360 Speaker 5: fact that was kind of sad. 1055 00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:34,319 Speaker 3: They're still cute though. 1056 00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:38,040 Speaker 5: Some sea urchins also have these pincer like organs that 1057 00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:42,160 Speaker 5: look like little jaws, called pedicalaria. These are mostly used 1058 00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,880 Speaker 5: for self defense or to remove debris from the animal 1059 00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,200 Speaker 5: and some of the penicolaria. And sea urchins are venomous. 1060 00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,680 Speaker 5: Urchins primarily feed on algae and kelp, but they are 1061 00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:56,640 Speaker 5: also omnivorous scavengers that will feed on animal matter. Their 1062 00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,040 Speaker 5: main diet then is algae, but they can also eat 1063 00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,879 Speaker 5: animals too, like sea cucumbers their own kind, as well 1064 00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:06,200 Speaker 5: as muscles and sponges. So as sea urchins move about 1065 00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:08,839 Speaker 5: on their tube feet, they scrape algae into their mouth. 1066 00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,960 Speaker 5: Their unique chewing organ, or the mouth part of the 1067 00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:17,320 Speaker 5: sea urchin, is called Aristotle's lantern. It includes complex jaws 1068 00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:22,160 Speaker 5: as well as five self sharpening teeth. If something nutritious 1069 00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:24,719 Speaker 5: lands on a sea urchin's body out of reach of 1070 00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,399 Speaker 5: their Aristotle's lantern, they'll use their tube feet to pass 1071 00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,400 Speaker 5: the food into the mouth. A sea urchin's mouth is 1072 00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,920 Speaker 5: actually on the underside of its body, whereas its anus 1073 00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,160 Speaker 5: is on the top, and so they scrape of food 1074 00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,160 Speaker 5: from the ocean floor, and it makes sense that the 1075 00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:41,640 Speaker 5: mouth is on the underside, and then when they poop, 1076 00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,239 Speaker 5: they excrete waste from the top of their body. Thought, 1077 00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:47,480 Speaker 5: that's a funny, little little creature. 1078 00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,560 Speaker 3: So we are everything living. It turns out the longer, 1079 00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,680 Speaker 3: like all living things are just tubes, right, Yeah, like 1080 00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:55,640 Speaker 3: for food goes in one end and the rest waste 1081 00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,239 Speaker 3: comes out of the other. That is very true, Legs. Yeah, 1082 00:53:58,239 --> 00:53:59,560 Speaker 3: it's my philosophical insight. 1083 00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,960 Speaker 5: And the video I did see of the harvesting, actually 1084 00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:04,320 Speaker 5: you cut it from the mouth. 1085 00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:08,560 Speaker 3: The underside going in the basa into the Aristotle's lanting, 1086 00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:09,560 Speaker 3: which I know is cool. 1087 00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:10,320 Speaker 5: Isn't that interesting? 1088 00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:11,719 Speaker 3: I think it's fascinating. 1089 00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, Aristotle's lantern. 1090 00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:19,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, why, that's a good Scarristotlegs. 1091 00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,200 Speaker 5: But maybe you're asking yourself. Maybe not, but I'm going 1092 00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:26,000 Speaker 5: to tell you anyway, how do these sea urchins reproduce? 1093 00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:30,399 Speaker 5: Most sea urchins reproduced by females releasing eggs directly into 1094 00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,600 Speaker 5: the water, and then these are fertilized by sperm. Some 1095 00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:37,319 Speaker 5: species females hold eggs in their spines to better protect them. 1096 00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,520 Speaker 5: Most sea urchins will release millions of eggs at one 1097 00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,720 Speaker 5: time and live in huge colonies to increase the chances 1098 00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:48,280 Speaker 5: of reproductive success. There are also more solitary species. However, 1099 00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:51,520 Speaker 5: as I mentioned earlier, there are some species that are 1100 00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,200 Speaker 5: in fact poisonous. A lot of them are tropical. They 1101 00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,560 Speaker 5: have venom in their spines, and if you're unlucky enough 1102 00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,359 Speaker 5: to step on a venomous urchin, the toxins can enter 1103 00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:02,720 Speaker 5: the body through the puncture wound. Some sea urchin's venoms 1104 00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:07,360 Speaker 5: can cause really grows symptoms like nausea and vomiting, breathing difficulties, 1105 00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,040 Speaker 5: but even the most venomous sea urchin has only been 1106 00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:13,680 Speaker 5: linked to one reported human death, so you'll most likely 1107 00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:14,880 Speaker 5: be fine. 1108 00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:20,239 Speaker 3: It's kinda suck, I have no doubt. It's probably one 1109 00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:21,880 Speaker 3: of those things. I guarantee. This is one of the 1110 00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:23,680 Speaker 3: things that people will tell you you need all your 1111 00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:27,319 Speaker 3: friends to piss on you, like teems with no just 1112 00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:29,560 Speaker 3: like if that's your thing, get after it. 1113 00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:30,880 Speaker 5: Like why do people say that. 1114 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:33,360 Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know it just maybe it 1115 00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:36,520 Speaker 3: like maybe someone said it. No one, no one has 1116 00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:39,719 Speaker 3: like felt the need to contradict it, because obviously, like 1117 00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,360 Speaker 3: there are very few medical treatments should involve pissing. No 1118 00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,040 Speaker 3: I think so, oh what I mean. 1119 00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:47,359 Speaker 5: Trend Some guy just like was trolling someone and then 1120 00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:47,880 Speaker 5: it became. 1121 00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:52,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, like jellyfish stings right, people do like, yeah, 1122 00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:54,799 Speaker 3: someone h it was at the beach here that day, 1123 00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:56,279 Speaker 3: and someone got whacked by a sting ray. 1124 00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:00,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, and someone was like, piss on. It knows to 1125 00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:01,680 Speaker 5: do that or are things to do that? It's like 1126 00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:01,920 Speaker 5: a thing. 1127 00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:04,120 Speaker 3: It doesn't. It's a good way to get banns from 1128 00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:08,560 Speaker 3: the beach for life. Their children, there are children there. 1129 00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:10,720 Speaker 3: Put it in hot water. It's sisting racing. 1130 00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:11,720 Speaker 5: That's really funny. 1131 00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:13,640 Speaker 3: Have a few beers and go to sleep. 1132 00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:17,200 Speaker 5: Good to know, Good to know. The most venomous, most 1133 00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:21,520 Speaker 5: toxic sea urchin is actually called the flower urchin. It's 1134 00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,000 Speaker 5: scientific name, which I was gonna say, but I'm not, 1135 00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:27,960 Speaker 5: but it basically translates into poison breath. So, as I 1136 00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:31,280 Speaker 5: mentioned in my opinion, the cutest sea urchin is called 1137 00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:34,720 Speaker 5: the seat potato. The sea potato is covered in short, 1138 00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,960 Speaker 5: beige little spines that give it a furry appearance, and 1139 00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:42,720 Speaker 5: it's quite distinct from its other sharper spined cousins. These 1140 00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:46,240 Speaker 5: sea urchins burrow into the seafloor, and their fuzzy spines 1141 00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,880 Speaker 5: trap air, preventing the urchin from suffocating under the sand. 1142 00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,600 Speaker 5: Sea potatoes are also known as heart urchins due to 1143 00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,560 Speaker 5: the shape of their test. You can find them apparently 1144 00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:58,040 Speaker 5: in waters around the UK. 1145 00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:01,319 Speaker 3: James, Okay, I get like a sea potato right now, 1146 00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:05,080 Speaker 3: you have every Oh yeah, these little chaps. 1147 00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:06,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a little little fluffer. 1148 00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:12,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a little fluke. Yeah, and you can find 1149 00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:14,680 Speaker 3: it when they're dried out too. They kind of look 1150 00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,200 Speaker 3: I guess, I guess to the you know, they look 1151 00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:19,320 Speaker 3: a bit like a sand dollar, right, that's sort of 1152 00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:21,600 Speaker 3: a thicker sand dollar. They've got some pike to them. 1153 00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:24,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, they're more round versus flat. 1154 00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:24,479 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1155 00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:27,920 Speaker 3: Down in cornwall. Yeah, they get they can get washed 1156 00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:31,000 Speaker 3: up on the beach. Sometimes not entirely potato looking, if 1157 00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,760 Speaker 3: we're honest. Yeah, there I can see. Yeah, they were 1158 00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:35,720 Speaker 3: passing similarity to potato, I suppose. 1159 00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:36,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1160 00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:38,600 Speaker 5: I think they're cute. Yeah they do. 1161 00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:41,120 Speaker 3: Look when you see them, when they look really fluffy, Yeah, 1162 00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,040 Speaker 3: it does look like a like a beaver or something. 1163 00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:47,040 Speaker 5: Wait, how how big have you seen them? Can you 1164 00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:48,440 Speaker 5: show me with your hand? 1165 00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, like a like a hand size, you know, like 1166 00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,280 Speaker 3: a like a like a sort of yeah. 1167 00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:57,160 Speaker 5: Both hands to make a circle. 1168 00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:59,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, like if you were like if you were doing 1169 00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:03,800 Speaker 3: that hand hot, very millennial of you. Yeah, yeah, excites. 1170 00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, I do have a heart test. 1171 00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:08,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're a millennial, you could go up to 1172 00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:09,960 Speaker 3: them and do that, I bet, and put it on 1173 00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,040 Speaker 3: your Instagram in a millennial way. 1174 00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:15,320 Speaker 5: And yeah, and only James will know what you're talking about. 1175 00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:20,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, well there's thousands of people. All your friends will 1176 00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:24,160 Speaker 3: think you're cool. Tell him, I told you got it. 1177 00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:29,200 Speaker 5: You heard it here first, sea Urchin's cool. The physiology 1178 00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:31,600 Speaker 5: of a sea urchin is actually pretty significant. As I 1179 00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:34,800 Speaker 5: mentioned earlier, there's only one part that is edible, which 1180 00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:38,000 Speaker 5: is the unie. When it comes to consumption, they're harvested 1181 00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,600 Speaker 5: for their gonads, and the go net is essentially a 1182 00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:44,440 Speaker 5: sex gland or reproductive organ that produces the sex hormones 1183 00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:47,560 Speaker 5: of an organism. So the go nets are reproductive organs 1184 00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:49,640 Speaker 5: are the edible part of the sea urchin, and that 1185 00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,400 Speaker 5: is known as unie rather than the sea urchin as 1186 00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:56,520 Speaker 5: a whole. Sometimes uni is mistakenly built as row which 1187 00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,400 Speaker 5: are fish eggs, but it's not that it's the reproductive 1188 00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:04,880 Speaker 5: organ and each sea urchin usually produces five gonads or 1189 00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:08,000 Speaker 5: uni quote unquote tongues that slip out with a spoon. 1190 00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:12,760 Speaker 5: And these gonads are sometimes bright yellow to orange lobes, 1191 00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:16,840 Speaker 5: and they're apparently stock piles of sugars, amino acids, and salts, 1192 00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:21,680 Speaker 5: a trifecta of sweet, salty, and umami. And that's why 1193 00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:24,560 Speaker 5: I guess it's been dubbed as the butter of the 1194 00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,880 Speaker 5: sea or something like that. And they are also similar 1195 00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:30,120 Speaker 5: to oysters in the fact that they can vary from 1196 00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:33,640 Speaker 5: flavor depending on the species and the diet of the organism. 1197 00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:37,320 Speaker 5: Urchin lovers, for example, prize Hokkaido Uni because of its 1198 00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:40,960 Speaker 5: umami intensive flavor, which is developed because of the urchin's 1199 00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:45,680 Speaker 5: diet of the Hokkaido macro algae combu aka the kelp. 1200 00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:49,800 Speaker 5: The green, red, and purple species have the highest demand 1201 00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:52,520 Speaker 5: globally because their lobes tend to be larger and more 1202 00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:56,760 Speaker 5: visually appetizing. Ninety nine percent of sea urchins are wild 1203 00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:59,400 Speaker 5: and harvested either by diving or drags. 1204 01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:02,520 Speaker 3: You if you are buying giosi e. Gens, I don't 1205 01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:04,320 Speaker 3: know why you would buy them. Even but you want 1206 01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:06,080 Speaker 3: to get the dived ones, don't. I'm not sure if 1207 01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:07,880 Speaker 3: you could get dragneted stuff in the US, but it's 1208 01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:11,240 Speaker 3: very damaging to the ocean floor. Any any of this stuff, right, scollops, 1209 01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:14,000 Speaker 3: et cetera. You want it can dived better. Yet, just 1210 01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:15,800 Speaker 3: go and get it yourself if you, if you're able to, 1211 01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:17,480 Speaker 3: if you you close by the ocean. But yeah, don't, 1212 01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:18,880 Speaker 3: don't be buying dragneted stuff. 1213 01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:22,240 Speaker 5: There are several species of note, and I mentioned some 1214 01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:27,280 Speaker 5: of them earlier, but others include the murasaki aka purple unie, 1215 01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:30,920 Speaker 5: and that uni fetches the highest price because of its 1216 01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:36,240 Speaker 5: large tongues and sweet flavor. Another species worth mentioning is 1217 01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:39,760 Speaker 5: the smaller buffun ouoni b a f u n ba 1218 01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:43,600 Speaker 5: fun but its name literally translates to horseshit because of 1219 01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:47,000 Speaker 5: the way that these round, brownish little creatures cluster on 1220 01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:50,080 Speaker 5: the ocean floor. A little note here that I didn't 1221 01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:52,600 Speaker 5: know about until reading about this, and maybe someone else 1222 01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:56,320 Speaker 5: out there didn't know this either. Again, I learned English 1223 01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,800 Speaker 5: as the second language. Maybe it's obvious, but this word 1224 01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:00,920 Speaker 5: sea or chin is similar to the word fish in 1225 01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:04,480 Speaker 5: that sea urchin can be both singular and plural. I 1226 01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,640 Speaker 5: didn't know that, so if you hear me using both interchangeably, 1227 01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:11,520 Speaker 5: that's why cute little word. I mentioned this earlier. But 1228 01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:15,400 Speaker 5: freshness is the key to good uni. It should be 1229 01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:18,600 Speaker 5: firm and bright colored, without any signs of seepage, and 1230 01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:23,280 Speaker 5: ideally still tiled or crisscrossed in its original packaging. Once 1231 01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:26,400 Speaker 5: it's harvested, it begins to melt, and its flavor can 1232 01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:30,560 Speaker 5: turn unforgettably bitter and off. In the best of worlds, 1233 01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,720 Speaker 5: uni is cleaned, iced and shipped before it can spoil, 1234 01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:37,080 Speaker 5: but it can also be treated with additives, including alum, 1235 01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:40,800 Speaker 5: to keep it firm. These chemicals may contribute to an 1236 01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:44,360 Speaker 5: off flavor if the UNI gets old. Some sushi chefs 1237 01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:48,000 Speaker 5: prefer in soy uni, which is shipped in a brine 1238 01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:52,520 Speaker 5: that mimics the salinity of seawater. The global and domestic 1239 01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:55,920 Speaker 5: market for sea urchin and uni is extensive. The greatest 1240 01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:59,440 Speaker 5: consumption of sea urchin occurs in Japan, France, and Korea. 1241 01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:04,360 Speaker 5: Japanese consumption, however, wins by a landslide. The country consumes 1242 01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:07,400 Speaker 5: about eighty to ninety percent of the current global supply. 1243 01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:12,280 Speaker 5: Sea urchin is a traditional staple in Japanese cuisine. Japan 1244 01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,240 Speaker 5: was the largest global harvester of sea urchins until the 1245 01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:18,640 Speaker 5: nineteen eighties, but high demand and a decrease of domestic 1246 01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:22,480 Speaker 5: supply forced Japan to look abroad. From the nineteen eighties 1247 01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,640 Speaker 5: to nineteen ninety four, the US, particularly Maine, was the 1248 01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:30,000 Speaker 5: largest exporter of green sea urchin. Today it's Chile, which 1249 01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:33,440 Speaker 5: exports Chilean red urchin and accounts for fifty percent of 1250 01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:37,880 Speaker 5: global landings. Overall, global supply has decreased over the last 1251 01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:42,200 Speaker 5: twenty years because of storms, decreasing chalp beds, invasive species, 1252 01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:46,960 Speaker 5: and overfishing. In nineteen ninety five, for example, the global 1253 01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:51,000 Speaker 5: landings total to one hundred and twenty thousand tons. In 1254 01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:55,680 Speaker 5: twenty seventeen, it had decreased to seventy five thousand. America 1255 01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:59,000 Speaker 5: has two major uni fisheries on the West coast. Santa 1256 01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:02,040 Speaker 5: Barbara UNI comes from the giant red sea urchin, and 1257 01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:05,600 Speaker 5: it's noted for its large size, coarse texture, and brightly 1258 01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:10,000 Speaker 5: sweet flavor. Back East Maine UNI comes from the longer 1259 01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:13,960 Speaker 5: spiked green sea urchin in North America. In general, the 1260 01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:17,040 Speaker 5: main sources of sea urchin come from the Canadian maritime 1261 01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:20,760 Speaker 5: Maine and the Pacific coast from British Columbia to California, 1262 01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:24,400 Speaker 5: so green sea urchins are harvested from the Atlantic, while 1263 01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:27,080 Speaker 5: the red and purple urchins are harvested from the Pacific. 1264 01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:30,920 Speaker 5: These days, domestic supply stays domestic to meet the growing 1265 01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:36,320 Speaker 5: demand and ethnic markets. Domestic supplies also supplemented by imported product, 1266 01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:40,480 Speaker 5: mostly from Chile during the summer months. On fact in 1267 01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:44,160 Speaker 5: New Zealand, Quina, urchins have long been part of the 1268 01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:50,000 Speaker 5: traditional Maori diet, so sea urchins have long been fished 1269 01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:53,400 Speaker 5: and harvested everywhere where there's basically a coast, from Peru 1270 01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:57,400 Speaker 5: to Italy and Korea. Reading about Korea and sea urchin 1271 01:03:57,480 --> 01:03:59,959 Speaker 5: harvesting is what led me to learn about the high 1272 01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:03,800 Speaker 5: who are female divers in the South Korean province of Jaiju, 1273 01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:08,760 Speaker 5: where for centuries, these specially trained female divers have collected 1274 01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:13,440 Speaker 5: sea urchins for generations, and traditionally girls start as young 1275 01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:18,080 Speaker 5: as eleven to train to die for urchins. Their livelihood 1276 01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:21,360 Speaker 5: consists of harvesting a variety of moluks, seaweed, and other 1277 01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:24,360 Speaker 5: sea life from the ocean. The Hainu are also known 1278 01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:28,200 Speaker 5: for their independent spirit and determination, and they are representative 1279 01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:31,680 Speaker 5: of the semi matriarchal family structure of the province of Jaiju. 1280 01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:36,280 Speaker 5: Another fun fact. I love a fun fact. You know 1281 01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:38,120 Speaker 5: what else loves the fun fact. 1282 01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:41,520 Speaker 3: Is it? Is it the sea potato. 1283 01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:43,960 Speaker 5: It's the ads, It's the sweep. Oh, the sea potato. 1284 01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:47,760 Speaker 5: Every time I think of a seat potato. Feel nice. 1285 01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:49,080 Speaker 3: Let me get you like a pleasure. 1286 01:04:50,480 --> 01:05:04,919 Speaker 5: Okay, here are some maths and we're back. So we're 1287 01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:09,000 Speaker 5: wrapping up this odyssey of going into sea urchins and 1288 01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:13,080 Speaker 5: this swimming journey we've had with James. It's not just 1289 01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:15,240 Speaker 5: humans who have found a way to get past the 1290 01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:19,800 Speaker 5: sea urchins spiky exterior and eat its sex organs. Their 1291 01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:24,160 Speaker 5: predators include a wide variety of fish, starfish, crabs, and 1292 01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:27,360 Speaker 5: sea otters. Sea otters lie on their backs with sea 1293 01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:29,560 Speaker 5: urchins on their chest and they whack them with a 1294 01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:31,040 Speaker 5: rock to eat what's inside. 1295 01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:33,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a cute thing to see. 1296 01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:36,200 Speaker 5: I love sea otters. They are so cute. 1297 01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:37,320 Speaker 3: They very adorable. 1298 01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:41,040 Speaker 5: Lying on their backs, It's like little guys go to position. 1299 01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:42,920 Speaker 3: They keep a little stone with them. 1300 01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:50,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, cute, so cute. But sea urchins are actually not 1301 01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:53,840 Speaker 5: just used by people solely in cuisine, perhaps because of 1302 01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:57,880 Speaker 5: their mysterious shapes. Fossils of sea urchin tests have also 1303 01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:01,560 Speaker 5: been historically used as protective amulets to ward off evil 1304 01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:06,880 Speaker 5: Apparently in southern England, James, some sea urchin fossils were 1305 01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:11,000 Speaker 5: traditionally thought to be thunderbolts frozen in rock, and these 1306 01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:14,400 Speaker 5: thunderstones were thought to protect a house from being struck 1307 01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:18,200 Speaker 5: by lightning. Interesting, I'm teaching you about your culture. 1308 01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:25,080 Speaker 3: Yes, that's it. 1309 01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:30,440 Speaker 5: And as James mentioned at the top, climate change is 1310 01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:34,880 Speaker 5: of course affecting sea urchins, and climate change is affecting everything. 1311 01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:39,160 Speaker 5: Sea urchins are sensitive to changes in their environment. They 1312 01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:42,480 Speaker 5: can act as an early warning system for potential problems 1313 01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:46,960 Speaker 5: in their ecosystem, as well as rising temperatures. Ocean acidification 1314 01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:50,600 Speaker 5: and rising temperatures are probably the biggest long term threat 1315 01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:55,280 Speaker 5: to see urchins as a whole. Increasing ocean acidification increases 1316 01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:58,760 Speaker 5: the rate at which calcium carbonate dissolves, so as things 1317 01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:01,480 Speaker 5: get more acidic, it will likely become harder and harder 1318 01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:04,880 Speaker 5: for sea urchins to accumulate enough calcium carbonate to make 1319 01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:07,480 Speaker 5: a solid test, and their tests will then get thinner 1320 01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:10,880 Speaker 5: and weaker. Experiments in labs have shown that this can 1321 01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:15,400 Speaker 5: happen even with very minor increases in a certification. Sea 1322 01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:18,480 Speaker 5: urchins in this way can help illustrate why it's so 1323 01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:22,120 Speaker 5: important to protect the balance of nature in our already 1324 01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:27,640 Speaker 5: threatened ocean ecosystems. So that's the sea urchin. 1325 01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:30,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, if you live in like northern or central California, 1326 01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:34,680 Speaker 3: as the water gets hotter, the kelp begins to die 1327 01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:37,120 Speaker 3: and the dead little pieces of kelp are fed upon 1328 01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:39,600 Speaker 3: by the sea urchins, and so the sea urchin population 1329 01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:43,640 Speaker 3: has like ballooned and they're taking over the kelp. You 1330 01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:47,360 Speaker 3: get what it called like barrens urchin barrens where it 1331 01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:49,720 Speaker 3: used to be like a kelp forest. You're amazing. If 1332 01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:51,480 Speaker 3: you've never dived in a help forest, you should dive 1333 01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:53,920 Speaker 3: in a help forest. I mean, don't fucking just do it. 1334 01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:55,320 Speaker 3: If you don't know what you're doing, you'll die. But 1335 01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,920 Speaker 3: you know, provided you're capable of free diving or scuba diving. 1336 01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:03,720 Speaker 3: But now they're gone, right, and it's just beds of urchins, 1337 01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:06,520 Speaker 3: which is really sad because the colp obviously is a 1338 01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:09,760 Speaker 3: sustaining part of that holy ecosystem. So yeah, be nice 1339 01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:10,600 Speaker 3: to the oceans. 1340 01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:12,960 Speaker 5: Please be nice. 1341 01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:14,919 Speaker 3: You can gather them without even diving. You can gather 1342 01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:17,920 Speaker 3: them on the in the intertidal there they'll be going. 1343 01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:19,760 Speaker 3: There'll be like getting cliffed out. Right, don't go to 1344 01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:21,599 Speaker 3: a place where there is no beach at high tide 1345 01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:23,439 Speaker 3: and then hang around there until the tide gets high, 1346 01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:26,280 Speaker 3: because I'm going to have to swim then. So don't 1347 01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:28,840 Speaker 3: don't be doing that. Be sensible, respect the ocean. Yeah, 1348 01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:31,320 Speaker 3: I love a sea urchin. Well, I'll put a picture 1349 01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:34,080 Speaker 3: of one I love to I love to show them. 1350 01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:38,680 Speaker 3: This is my This is my weird like toxic trait. Yeah, yeah, 1351 01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:42,160 Speaker 3: my doxic trait. Yeah. My toxic trait is showing children 1352 01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:52,160 Speaker 3: sea urchin like potato. Yeah. Well I I'm in California. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1353 01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:54,639 Speaker 3: I'm not just walking up to kids and you're whacking 1354 01:08:54,680 --> 01:08:56,719 Speaker 3: out my iPhone, Cherie, I'm not weird. 1355 01:08:57,439 --> 01:08:57,599 Speaker 4: No. 1356 01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:02,599 Speaker 3: If I'm gathering sea urchins on a free dive, then 1357 01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:03,880 Speaker 3: I'll come back into the beach. 1358 01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:04,120 Speaker 4: Right. 1359 01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:05,519 Speaker 3: I have a little body board and I have a 1360 01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:07,960 Speaker 3: bag on it, but the urchin's in there. I'm sure 1361 01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:08,760 Speaker 3: kids love that. 1362 01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:12,880 Speaker 5: I mean, I remember like going to those like aquariums 1363 01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:15,080 Speaker 5: where you stick your hand in the water as a child, 1364 01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:17,679 Speaker 5: you don't know any better, and like the little starfish 1365 01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:19,720 Speaker 5: and everything. That was the most interesting part. So I'm 1366 01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:21,840 Speaker 5: sure the kids love that shit. 1367 01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:23,360 Speaker 3: Kids love a creature. 1368 01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:26,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, you learn anything about sea urchins. 1369 01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:27,080 Speaker 1: I learned a lot. 1370 01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:29,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't awful lot about it, Like I didn't 1371 01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:32,280 Speaker 3: know anything about these these excited about these Korean ladies. 1372 01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:33,519 Speaker 3: Pretty going to google that later. 1373 01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:35,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like they des are more of a 1374 01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:39,880 Speaker 5: deep dive. I'm intended magic incredible. 1375 01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:44,720 Speaker 3: Maybe there'll be my next podcast series. I'll there. I've 1376 01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:47,040 Speaker 3: contrived ways to free dive on when I went free 1377 01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:49,720 Speaker 3: diving a lot in the Marshall Islands at six. I'm 1378 01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:51,840 Speaker 3: stoked for iHeartRadio to pay for me to go free 1379 01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:52,599 Speaker 3: diving somewhere else. 1380 01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:57,800 Speaker 5: Advocate for that petition, write a lot union involved anyway. 1381 01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:01,960 Speaker 5: That's this episode of it could happen here and until 1382 01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:06,519 Speaker 5: next time. Important pickup alert, We're back. James alerted me 1383 01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:10,280 Speaker 5: to a fact that was too important to not include 1384 01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:12,599 Speaker 5: in this episode. James, what did I miss? 1385 01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:16,519 Speaker 3: What you're missuring was the eighth wonder of the world, 1386 01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:20,479 Speaker 3: which is sea urchins wearing little hats. 1387 01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:24,280 Speaker 5: That's right, folks, see urchins wearing little hats. 1388 01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:26,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is where we fact check all our reporting 1389 01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:31,200 Speaker 3: exactly to bring you the cutting edge shear professional journalism. 1390 01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:35,040 Speaker 5: So what are we talking about? We talked about tube feet, right. 1391 01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:38,320 Speaker 5: Urchins move using their little tube feet, and they contract 1392 01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:41,760 Speaker 5: small muscles that force water into the tube foot to 1393 01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:44,519 Speaker 5: take each step, and the end of each tube foot 1394 01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:47,160 Speaker 5: is very, very sticky. They used to be described as 1395 01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:50,519 Speaker 5: suction cups, but now researchers are thinking of them more 1396 01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:54,280 Speaker 5: as like a bioadhesive rather than a suction that sticks 1397 01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:57,479 Speaker 5: to things, including the floor. And they use the stick 1398 01:10:57,479 --> 01:10:59,560 Speaker 5: he tube feet to pick up and hold on to 1399 01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:05,759 Speaker 5: raw shells, golf balls, and other little treasures, treasures including 1400 01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:11,080 Speaker 5: tiny hats. Behaviorally, collogists call urchin hats quote unquote covering behavior. 1401 01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:12,720 Speaker 5: They don't call the hats that, but they call the 1402 01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:16,320 Speaker 5: act of them covering themselves covering behavior. That name is 1403 01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:20,400 Speaker 5: related to the first and most prevalent hypothesis about this phenomena, 1404 01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:24,000 Speaker 5: that the urchins are covering themselves to provide shelter from 1405 01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:28,240 Speaker 5: light predators or maybe even both. There are experiments which 1406 01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:32,760 Speaker 5: confirm the light hypothesis. Researchers in Ireland found that when 1407 01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:36,160 Speaker 5: the urchins were exposed to the full spectrum of UV light, 1408 01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:39,000 Speaker 5: they would pick up their little hats and or move 1409 01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:42,000 Speaker 5: to a shady corner of their tanks in order to 1410 01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:46,840 Speaker 5: avoid harmful UV radiation. Around the same time of these findings, 1411 01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:51,040 Speaker 5: another scientist in California was studying the covering behavior of 1412 01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:55,919 Speaker 5: Pacific rose flower urchins. The rose urchin study wasn't conducted 1413 01:11:55,920 --> 01:11:59,120 Speaker 5: in a lab. Instead, the urchin behavior was observed in 1414 01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:01,880 Speaker 5: their natural habitat, and what they found was that the 1415 01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:05,439 Speaker 5: sample site with the greatest wave energy had the most 1416 01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:10,120 Speaker 5: covering behavior among the urchins. So what is it sun 1417 01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:13,639 Speaker 5: safety or is it like a protective gear like seat 1418 01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:16,720 Speaker 5: belts or kneepads. Are they protecting themselves from currents and 1419 01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:19,679 Speaker 5: wave damage instead of floating away? Or are they afraid 1420 01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:24,439 Speaker 5: of the sun? Researchers have tested several factors simultaneously to 1421 01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:27,639 Speaker 5: trace the covering behavior to its source. In the lab, 1422 01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:31,920 Speaker 5: green urchins were exposed to common predators, wave surges and 1423 01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:35,200 Speaker 5: algae blades, as well as sunlight, and as it turns out, 1424 01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:40,080 Speaker 5: predators were a bust. Their presence had no significant impact 1425 01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:43,480 Speaker 5: on the rate of covering behavior, so it's not necessarily 1426 01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:48,000 Speaker 5: camouflaged for all urchins, and similarly to how sea stars 1427 01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:53,519 Speaker 5: can regenerate lost arms, urchins are also constantly regenerating loss 1428 01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:57,720 Speaker 5: and broken spines. But this regeneration takes energy, and so 1429 01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:01,080 Speaker 5: for some urchins it might be a safer bet, particularly 1430 01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:05,120 Speaker 5: for a small urchin who is vulnerable to dislodgment and damage, 1431 01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:07,439 Speaker 5: to pick up some extra weight and put on a 1432 01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:10,679 Speaker 5: little sun protection at the same time. And of course, 1433 01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:14,280 Speaker 5: because humans are humans. Once three D printing came along, 1434 01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:17,599 Speaker 5: people started making sea urchins tiny little urchin hats, which 1435 01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:19,880 Speaker 5: is why I keep calling them hats, because now they 1436 01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:22,360 Speaker 5: are hats and people have them in aquariums or in 1437 01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:26,280 Speaker 5: their personal urchin tank, because sure enough, these urchins will 1438 01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:28,720 Speaker 5: skitter along and pick these hats up and put them 1439 01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:31,040 Speaker 5: on their head, which we now know is actually their butt, 1440 01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:35,200 Speaker 5: but they put them on the top of themselves. Not 1441 01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:38,679 Speaker 5: all urchins, right, little ass hat. 1442 01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:44,280 Speaker 3: That's funny, urchin ass hat. What a great band it 1443 01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:44,720 Speaker 3: could be. 1444 01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:45,840 Speaker 5: That's a great band name. 1445 01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:47,960 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, if you are listening and in need of 1446 01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:51,439 Speaker 3: a sort of like a you're welcome, yeah, like Blink 1447 01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:53,320 Speaker 3: one eight two, that kind of music. I think that's 1448 01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:54,799 Speaker 3: what I associate with urchin asshole. 1449 01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:59,240 Speaker 5: I agree urchin asset. Not all urchins wear hats and 1450 01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:01,920 Speaker 5: a Canadian state he found that smaller urchins are the 1451 01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:04,280 Speaker 5: ones that are more likely to cover up, and the 1452 01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:07,760 Speaker 5: logic behind their covering behavior it seems to depend, as 1453 01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:10,559 Speaker 5: I said, on the species of urchin and the environment 1454 01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:13,920 Speaker 5: day in habit So out in more tropical regions, the 1455 01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:17,479 Speaker 5: collector urchin as it's called it may be protecting itself 1456 01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:20,479 Speaker 5: from the sun and these urchins can be found in 1457 01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:24,680 Speaker 5: shallow waters off of Hawaii, the Indo Pacific in the Bahamas, 1458 01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:28,240 Speaker 5: and this is where they're exposed to a lot of sunlight. Meanwhile, 1459 01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:32,440 Speaker 5: researchers think that the green sea urchin uses its adornments 1460 01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:35,960 Speaker 5: to weigh itself down, and this species tends to live 1461 01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:39,000 Speaker 5: in the shallow waters of the northern Atlantic and Pacific 1462 01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:43,599 Speaker 5: Oceans where it gets constantly battered by waves. Wherever there 1463 01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:46,519 Speaker 5: is a lot of wave activity, the urchin heavily covers 1464 01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:49,360 Speaker 5: up the top and the sides of its body with 1465 01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:52,679 Speaker 5: whatever it can find, which helps make it heavy enough 1466 01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:57,440 Speaker 5: to avoid getting swept away. And then further south, Antarctic 1467 01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:00,080 Speaker 5: urchins have been found to cover themselves as a w 1468 01:15:00,280 --> 01:15:04,680 Speaker 5: to avoid predators. Their main predators are king crabs and 1469 01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:08,280 Speaker 5: c aneemies, and researchers found that they were more likely 1470 01:15:08,360 --> 01:15:11,560 Speaker 5: to put on coverings when predators were around. In a 1471 01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:14,960 Speaker 5: lab experiment, another species of urchin was more likely to 1472 01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:17,679 Speaker 5: survive being exposed to a predator if it was given 1473 01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:21,679 Speaker 5: shells to cover itself, So these decorations may be type 1474 01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:25,679 Speaker 5: of camouflaged to keep some urchins from being found and eaten, 1475 01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:30,400 Speaker 5: not necessarily all urchins. And then there's the Kina, a 1476 01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:34,479 Speaker 5: large urchin found in New Zealand. This urchin seems to 1477 01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:37,240 Speaker 5: use the item that it collected as a food source. 1478 01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:41,240 Speaker 5: Researchers found that this species was covering itself even in 1479 01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:44,240 Speaker 5: the dark, which suggested that it wasn't trying to protect 1480 01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:47,799 Speaker 5: itself from sunlight, and its predators don't rely on site 1481 01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:51,200 Speaker 5: to find their prey, so camouflaging itself would be pointless. 1482 01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:54,960 Speaker 5: In a field study, they found that these urchins were 1483 01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:58,840 Speaker 5: carrying algae aka a source of their little urchin food 1484 01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:03,479 Speaker 5: and basically carrying around like a snack bag or a 1485 01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:07,559 Speaker 5: fridge for themselves, which can be helpful because these urchins 1486 01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:10,360 Speaker 5: might not always have a lot of algae around for grazing. 1487 01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:13,479 Speaker 5: So now you know about little hats and the little 1488 01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:16,120 Speaker 5: things that urchins do to cover themselves and collect things. 1489 01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:21,439 Speaker 5: I didn't realize that it was more than just covering 1490 01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:25,479 Speaker 5: their little ass hats or ass heads rather, but yeah, 1491 01:16:25,479 --> 01:16:27,600 Speaker 5: I thought it was really interesting and good good on 1492 01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:31,360 Speaker 5: James to remind us to talk about urchan hats. 1493 01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:34,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, great, many things that I've learned recently. Got a 1494 01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:37,920 Speaker 3: TikTok account, so I'm learning a lot. Whoa yeah, And 1495 01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:40,519 Speaker 3: it's not like I'm not I'm not tiktoking, and I 1496 01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:44,280 Speaker 3: just want to be extremely clear about this. I got 1497 01:16:44,280 --> 01:16:45,920 Speaker 3: it because lots of the folks in me and I 1498 01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:49,120 Speaker 3: used TikTok to you. Oh nice tip to communicate with 1499 01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:51,800 Speaker 3: the world. So I've been tiktoking and I've learned a lot, 1500 01:16:51,920 --> 01:16:55,200 Speaker 3: learning a lot about Taylor Swift and Olivia and chids 1501 01:16:55,240 --> 01:16:56,120 Speaker 3: that's not necessary. 1502 01:16:56,880 --> 01:17:01,519 Speaker 5: Thank you James for joining me on this swimming journey 1503 01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:07,040 Speaker 5: of urchin facts and things. I when you suggested talking 1504 01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:10,160 Speaker 5: about the urchins, I did not expect them to be 1505 01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:13,240 Speaker 5: so cute and so interesting, So thank you for that. 1506 01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:18,439 Speaker 5: And if you have an urchin around, go get a 1507 01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:20,759 Speaker 5: little hat, be its little buddy. 1508 01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:24,759 Speaker 3: Get on Etsy, I've just been looking. Oh no, go on, Etsy, 1509 01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:27,000 Speaker 3: gonta have Viking. I think that was one's the. 1510 01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:31,720 Speaker 5: Most that's funny anyway. Okay, that's now the end of 1511 01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:51,640 Speaker 5: this episode, so you're welcome for this update and uh bye. 1512 01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:55,559 Speaker 4: Welcome zikaap Here, a podcast that is droning under the 1513 01:17:55,600 --> 01:18:00,200 Speaker 4: oppression of whoever keeps changing the stupid zoom interface. It's 1514 01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:03,599 Speaker 4: different every time. It always gets worse. It never gets better. 1515 01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:04,639 Speaker 4: Please stop. 1516 01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:09,920 Speaker 3: We had trads for zoom zoom layout. 1517 01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:14,120 Speaker 4: Just get it, get it one time, put the recording 1518 01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:16,439 Speaker 4: thing on the stupid panel on the bottom, and then 1519 01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:18,040 Speaker 4: never change it. 1520 01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:19,400 Speaker 3: It simply never gets better. 1521 01:18:20,160 --> 01:18:24,040 Speaker 4: H Yeah, this is be a who's extremely annoyed at 1522 01:18:24,479 --> 01:18:26,840 Speaker 4: zoom with me is javes. 1523 01:18:27,320 --> 01:18:30,120 Speaker 3: Yep, also extremely annoyed at zoom high just in solidarity 1524 01:18:30,160 --> 01:18:34,719 Speaker 3: with Mia fucking yeah, and also also extremely annoyed. 1525 01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:38,479 Speaker 4: Right now is the man stages the world's worst coup 1526 01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:40,439 Speaker 4: ask to report to prison. 1527 01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:43,800 Speaker 3: I don't think we can call it the world's worst coupa. 1528 01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:46,840 Speaker 3: That's a bold claim. You're forgetting Silver Corp. 1529 01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:51,120 Speaker 4: No, So, okay, here's the thing about Silver Corp. Right, 1530 01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:55,640 Speaker 4: the guys who defeated Silver Corp. Had guns, Yeah, but 1531 01:18:55,680 --> 01:18:58,200 Speaker 4: Silver Corp didn't. They had BB guns. 1532 01:18:58,479 --> 01:18:58,759 Speaker 3: Yeah. 1533 01:18:58,800 --> 01:19:02,280 Speaker 4: But here's the thing, right they they those guys again, 1534 01:19:02,439 --> 01:19:04,720 Speaker 4: those guys did not have real guns. Defeated by guys 1535 01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:07,840 Speaker 4: with guns. These guys had guns. They had a lot 1536 01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:12,680 Speaker 4: of guns. They were defeated by people with flags. 1537 01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:16,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and a guy standing in a doorway being like, no, 1538 01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:21,519 Speaker 3: you can't come in, go home? You know, so we 1539 01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:22,200 Speaker 3: we we are. 1540 01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:25,160 Speaker 4: I genuinely believe this is the worst cup I've ever 1541 01:19:25,160 --> 01:19:27,320 Speaker 4: seen in my entire life. And you know, we've lived 1542 01:19:27,320 --> 01:19:30,320 Speaker 4: through Venezuela one I I I distinctly remember stepping out 1543 01:19:30,320 --> 01:19:32,960 Speaker 4: of a post office and checking my phone and getting 1544 01:19:33,000 --> 01:19:35,920 Speaker 4: eighteen messages from my friends that said, do you do you? 1545 01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:38,320 Speaker 3: What do you know about the coup and Turkey? That 1546 01:19:38,439 --> 01:19:39,800 Speaker 3: was a terrible coup. 1547 01:19:40,240 --> 01:19:43,240 Speaker 4: Was they they could have they could have just saved 1548 01:19:43,320 --> 01:19:45,120 Speaker 4: us all this trouble of shot aired when Douf a 1549 01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:47,639 Speaker 4: jet fighter, But they didn't, you know, And there's there's 1550 01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:49,160 Speaker 4: been plenty of bad ones. There was that that coup 1551 01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:53,440 Speaker 4: recently in the Democratic public at the congo To fiasco. Yeah, hilariously, 1552 01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:56,760 Speaker 4: this coup and Bolivia recovering today happened exactly one year 1553 01:19:56,800 --> 01:20:00,240 Speaker 4: and three days after the March of the Wagner Core. 1554 01:20:01,320 --> 01:20:03,320 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I've got to forgot about that one? 1555 01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:03,960 Speaker 4: What if? 1556 01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:04,680 Speaker 1: Wow? 1557 01:20:05,080 --> 01:20:06,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, Well we wanted to try it. 1558 01:20:07,240 --> 01:20:10,160 Speaker 3: Guys, if you believe you can achieve give it a 1559 01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:12,479 Speaker 3: go to a coup if you want to, why not 1560 01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:13,720 Speaker 3: gonna trump pee try one? 1561 01:20:13,760 --> 01:20:14,080 Speaker 5: Did what? 1562 01:20:14,160 --> 01:20:14,880 Speaker 3: Very well? Yeah? 1563 01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:17,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean we really, I mean I also, I mean, 1564 01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:22,000 Speaker 4: we can't forget January ninth, even the the well, I don't, 1565 01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:24,880 Speaker 4: I don't because January sixth was already farce, but like 1566 01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:27,719 Speaker 4: we forgot the farcest, farst version of it in Brazil. 1567 01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:32,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, yea, even there. Yeah yeah, they owed a building coupe. 1568 01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:37,759 Speaker 4: Yeah, lots of lots of very stupid cues, but this 1569 01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:40,639 Speaker 4: this is probably the worst one. And so we're going 1570 01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:43,280 Speaker 4: to be explaining sort of what happened. But the thing 1571 01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:46,920 Speaker 4: about this coupe is that in order to understand what's 1572 01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:52,600 Speaker 4: happening with this coup, we have to get through I 1573 01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:55,240 Speaker 4: think a part of oblivion history that has not been 1574 01:20:56,680 --> 01:21:01,120 Speaker 4: really well understood or talk on the left, which is 1575 01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:03,519 Speaker 4: effectively what happened in Bolivia. 1576 01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:06,280 Speaker 3: After the coup in twenty nineteen. 1577 01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:09,960 Speaker 4: I think I think people sort of know that there 1578 01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:14,400 Speaker 4: was a coup and that it got overturned, but coma 1579 01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:17,080 Speaker 4: that was sort of the point at which which the 1580 01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:20,120 Speaker 4: sort of Anglo media and like the sort of press 1581 01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:22,479 Speaker 4: that hits the left here kind of just took off. 1582 01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:25,840 Speaker 4: So you have your sort of twenty nineteen coup. The 1583 01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:28,519 Speaker 4: place where sort of everything getting lost kind of starts 1584 01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:29,000 Speaker 4: is that. 1585 01:21:29,640 --> 01:21:30,479 Speaker 3: So there's this coup. 1586 01:21:30,760 --> 01:21:33,640 Speaker 4: The left sort of response to the coup is not 1587 01:21:33,880 --> 01:21:37,080 Speaker 4: very strong because the sort of social movements have been 1588 01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:41,160 Speaker 4: hallowed out by their sort of incorporation into the Bolivian state, 1589 01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:43,960 Speaker 4: so they don't they sort of just don't have the 1590 01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:50,280 Speaker 4: juice to really kind of you know, roll this coup back. 1591 01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:53,400 Speaker 4: This is this is makes basically this is the twenty 1592 01:21:53,479 --> 01:21:56,920 Speaker 4: nineteen coup, not the twenty twenty four coup. Yeah, and 1593 01:21:56,920 --> 01:21:59,280 Speaker 4: you know the thing about the twenty nineteen coup that 1594 01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:00,800 Speaker 4: makes it very different from this one is that that 1595 01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:03,120 Speaker 4: one was you know, there was a broad base of 1596 01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:06,320 Speaker 4: support for this right in this sort of in this 1597 01:22:06,400 --> 01:22:08,360 Speaker 4: sort of like far right out of Santa Cruz and 1598 01:22:08,439 --> 01:22:10,800 Speaker 4: also out of sort of like like more moderate center 1599 01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:15,040 Speaker 4: right factions. So you know, there are sort of large 1600 01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:17,400 Speaker 4: street with favor of this. This is not true if 1601 01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:18,800 Speaker 4: mose recent. 1602 01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:21,439 Speaker 3: One, yeah, absolutely not. 1603 01:22:22,360 --> 01:22:26,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, but you know, by by by twenty twenty, as 1604 01:22:26,160 --> 01:22:30,040 Speaker 4: twenty twenty is sort of progressing. A Anya's coup government is 1605 01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:33,519 Speaker 4: a fiasco. Their management of COVID is just terrible, enormous 1606 01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:35,320 Speaker 4: numbers of deaths. I mean actually I mean not by 1607 01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:39,320 Speaker 4: American standards, I guess, but you know, really really mismanaged. 1608 01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:42,360 Speaker 4: I mean my I have friends there who were talking 1609 01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:44,400 Speaker 4: about how if you were going to the hospital and 1610 01:22:44,439 --> 01:22:47,479 Speaker 4: you needed to use like a piece of medical equipment, 1611 01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:50,240 Speaker 4: you had to buy the medical equipment or a part 1612 01:22:50,280 --> 01:22:51,920 Speaker 4: to fix the machine and then show up to the 1613 01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:54,120 Speaker 4: hospital with the part because they couldn't order it. 1614 01:22:54,880 --> 01:22:57,599 Speaker 3: Yeah. I've yeah, I've seen that in a few places 1615 01:22:57,640 --> 01:22:59,080 Speaker 3: in the world. It's never never a good time. 1616 01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:01,599 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's not good. It was a real shit show. 1617 01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:06,040 Speaker 4: And by By sort of I think about September, early 1618 01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:10,160 Speaker 4: September twenty ninth of twenty twenty, there are the left 1619 01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:12,200 Speaker 4: has sort of gotten it shipped together and there are 1620 01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:16,200 Speaker 4: these this massive set of roadblocks. Bolivian Blivion social politics 1621 01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:19,080 Speaker 4: tends to sort of be about roadblocks because you know, 1622 01:23:19,240 --> 01:23:21,600 Speaker 4: country a lot of mountains, a lot of roads you 1623 01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:24,280 Speaker 4: can very easily block off and then prevent anything from 1624 01:23:24,320 --> 01:23:27,120 Speaker 4: you know, for example, entering a city. 1625 01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:28,080 Speaker 3: Yep, good idea. 1626 01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:31,160 Speaker 4: So they're they're able to just basically shut down the 1627 01:23:31,200 --> 01:23:33,479 Speaker 4: Blivion economy. The government is once again on the Vergia 1628 01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:36,360 Speaker 4: collapse and once again and we'll get to the first 1629 01:23:36,360 --> 01:23:39,320 Speaker 4: time this happened, but even Morallies once again sort of 1630 01:23:39,360 --> 01:23:41,640 Speaker 4: pulls the supporters off of the barricade so he can 1631 01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:45,519 Speaker 4: go win an election rather than you know, attempt to 1632 01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:47,439 Speaker 4: just bring down the sort of coup government. 1633 01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:50,519 Speaker 3: So you know that eventually happens. 1634 01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:54,200 Speaker 4: The government is forced to hold elections because you know, 1635 01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:58,360 Speaker 4: they've they've lost control of the country, and the MS 1636 01:23:58,479 --> 01:24:01,840 Speaker 4: takes you know, wins this election by overwhelming margins. The 1637 01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:04,200 Speaker 4: MAS is even Morales' party, it's the sort of like 1638 01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:04,760 Speaker 4: party of. 1639 01:24:04,720 --> 01:24:08,160 Speaker 3: The oblivion Left. But yeah, the guy comes to the power. 1640 01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:08,720 Speaker 3: As Lewis R. 1641 01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:12,759 Speaker 4: Say, he's an interesting figure because he is kind of 1642 01:24:13,640 --> 01:24:15,160 Speaker 4: what we're going to get more into sort. 1643 01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:18,320 Speaker 3: Of what the MAS is in a bit. But he 1644 01:24:18,479 --> 01:24:20,759 Speaker 3: is from a kind of right wing of the party 1645 01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:25,200 Speaker 3: that's not talked about very much. Yeah, he he is. 1646 01:24:25,200 --> 01:24:28,160 Speaker 4: A you know he's not a guy who comes from 1647 01:24:28,360 --> 01:24:30,320 Speaker 4: the social movements and in the way that sort of 1648 01:24:30,360 --> 01:24:32,559 Speaker 4: Morales did like he was even Moreles was a guy 1649 01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:34,200 Speaker 4: from the co He was like the president of the 1650 01:24:34,240 --> 01:24:38,080 Speaker 4: coca growers Union. Arsay is a banker. He's an an 1651 01:24:38,120 --> 01:24:41,439 Speaker 4: economist and a banker. He comes out of the Central 1652 01:24:41,439 --> 01:24:43,160 Speaker 4: Bank of Bolivia and. 1653 01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:45,240 Speaker 3: He he has had. 1654 01:24:45,160 --> 01:24:49,080 Speaker 4: Been kind of the guy running Bolivian economic policy. But 1655 01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:51,280 Speaker 4: but he is from the developmentalist wing of the party, 1656 01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:53,479 Speaker 4: which means he is effectively from the wing of the 1657 01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:57,840 Speaker 4: party that are the kind of like center left capitalists 1658 01:24:58,520 --> 01:25:01,760 Speaker 4: that the social moments kind of allied themselves to under 1659 01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:04,040 Speaker 4: Moralees in order to do this sort of national economic 1660 01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:06,200 Speaker 4: development policy. So these are a lot of these are 1661 01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:10,519 Speaker 4: a lot of mining sector guys. These are a very 1662 01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:15,880 Speaker 4: specific sort of cadra of these central bank guys, you know. 1663 01:25:16,080 --> 01:25:17,280 Speaker 3: And I think this is the part. 1664 01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:21,080 Speaker 4: The thing about the MS that's kind of relevant here 1665 01:25:21,120 --> 01:25:23,439 Speaker 4: is that it usually also has a base support among 1666 01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:25,080 Speaker 4: people you wouldn't expect. I mean, there's a lot of 1667 01:25:25,080 --> 01:25:28,320 Speaker 4: small business owners who support them, because you know, the 1668 01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:31,400 Speaker 4: maas really did for most of the time they've been 1669 01:25:31,400 --> 01:25:34,280 Speaker 4: in power preside over sort of astonishing economic growth. They 1670 01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:36,519 Speaker 4: sort of did this by marrying these social movements to 1671 01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:40,400 Speaker 4: this kind of national bourgeoisie developmentalis faction. 1672 01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:41,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. 1673 01:25:41,360 --> 01:25:43,880 Speaker 4: And the other thing that that the MAAS sort of 1674 01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:46,280 Speaker 4: does in the period between when they come back to 1675 01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:49,639 Speaker 4: power in late twenty twenty twenty twenty one and now 1676 01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:51,760 Speaker 4: is they do they actually go after the people who 1677 01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:54,120 Speaker 4: did the coup, right, and yes, he was the previous 1678 01:25:54,160 --> 01:25:56,639 Speaker 4: president is just in prison for helping you do the coup. 1679 01:25:57,120 --> 01:26:02,320 Speaker 4: The other big person who's been arrested is Luis Fernando Camacho, 1680 01:26:02,479 --> 01:26:05,879 Speaker 4: who is a man who, in one hundred percent complete 1681 01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:12,880 Speaker 4: seriousness calls himself Basho Camacho. So that's that's a sign, Yeah, 1682 01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:14,559 Speaker 4: that that that's an odication of who this guy is, 1683 01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:21,120 Speaker 4: which is he is a really fanatical, really fanatical Christian nationalist. 1684 01:26:21,479 --> 01:26:23,440 Speaker 3: He's playing a very similar. 1685 01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:25,880 Speaker 4: Role to I mean, actually, I think even even in 1686 01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:27,519 Speaker 4: a lot of ways sort of more radical role to 1687 01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:32,680 Speaker 4: what Bolsonaro played in Brazil, where Camasho in Bolivia is 1688 01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:35,360 Speaker 4: this kind of he he's the guy who's rallied both 1689 01:26:35,400 --> 01:26:39,840 Speaker 4: sort of Evangelicalism and Catholicism, of those rallied both of 1690 01:26:39,880 --> 01:26:43,520 Speaker 4: them into this sort of virulent and and and specifically 1691 01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:49,560 Speaker 4: in Bolivia, anti indigenous sort of political force. The the 1692 01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:52,840 Speaker 4: twenty nineteen coup is seen in very very explicitly is 1693 01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:55,960 Speaker 4: seen in religious terms. Both Idias and Cabacho talk about 1694 01:26:55,960 --> 01:26:58,320 Speaker 4: how like the word of God is back at the 1695 01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:01,280 Speaker 4: capitol and the but like all of the sort of 1696 01:27:01,280 --> 01:27:03,720 Speaker 4: indigenous various indigenous stuff is just never going to come back. 1697 01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:08,400 Speaker 4: So Kamacho gets arrested in twenty twenty two for you know, 1698 01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:12,080 Speaker 4: doing this coup, and this sets off so he, by 1699 01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:14,160 Speaker 4: the way, like is the governor of the state of 1700 01:27:14,160 --> 01:27:17,200 Speaker 4: Santa Cruz, and this sets off a bunch of like 1701 01:27:17,760 --> 01:27:20,280 Speaker 4: a right wing general strike, a bunch of riots, like 1702 01:27:20,439 --> 01:27:24,200 Speaker 4: hundreds of people are injured in street fighting between his 1703 01:27:24,320 --> 01:27:28,240 Speaker 4: sort of fanatics and everyone else in the country. It 1704 01:27:28,240 --> 01:27:30,960 Speaker 4: does an enormous amount of economic damage. It sets off 1705 01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:34,960 Speaker 4: sort of roadblocks the government, I mean Kamacho I think 1706 01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:37,760 Speaker 4: also is still in prison, but it kind of, you know, 1707 01:27:37,800 --> 01:27:40,759 Speaker 4: the government's kind of forced to make concessions to these people. 1708 01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:45,360 Speaker 4: So you know, the whole the whole sort of ur say, 1709 01:27:45,439 --> 01:27:48,559 Speaker 4: government is kind of on shaky footing from the beginning. 1710 01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:53,320 Speaker 4: And all of this is before the Bolivian economy really 1711 01:27:53,400 --> 01:27:57,200 Speaker 4: hits the ship. But before before we get to the 1712 01:27:57,200 --> 01:27:59,519 Speaker 4: Bolivian economy, do you know what else hits the ship? 1713 01:28:00,479 --> 01:28:01,599 Speaker 1: Oh uh? 1714 01:28:02,240 --> 01:28:05,920 Speaker 3: Is it the meal kit preparation delivery service that we 1715 01:28:05,960 --> 01:28:11,479 Speaker 3: are not allowed to mention for leader reasons. It is, yes, yeah, yes, yeah, 1716 01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:13,559 Speaker 3: you'll be pooping your brains out. Don't do it. 1717 01:28:24,479 --> 01:28:26,920 Speaker 4: We are back, so let's talk about the other thing 1718 01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:28,120 Speaker 4: that's happening in Bolivia. 1719 01:28:28,479 --> 01:28:29,599 Speaker 3: Well, okay, see other. 1720 01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:32,440 Speaker 4: Thing, the one of the four other things that's reppening 1721 01:28:32,520 --> 01:28:39,520 Speaker 4: in Bolivia, and that is the real. 1722 01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:41,599 Speaker 3: Sort of collapse of the Bolivian economy. 1723 01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:46,679 Speaker 4: So the Bolivian economy Blivia has been kind of different 1724 01:28:46,760 --> 01:28:49,639 Speaker 4: from the rest of the sort of kind of left wing, 1725 01:28:49,760 --> 01:28:52,439 Speaker 4: pink tied governments that were elected in the in the 1726 01:28:52,439 --> 01:28:55,760 Speaker 4: in the sort of two thousands era sort of anti 1727 01:28:55,760 --> 01:29:00,360 Speaker 4: globalization politics. Most of those countries' economies employed did a 1728 01:29:00,400 --> 01:29:02,880 Speaker 4: long time ago, like Venezuela is sort of obviously the 1729 01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:05,559 Speaker 4: most famous case, but all of these economies fell apart 1730 01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:08,040 Speaker 4: because these were all economies based on the commodity boom. 1731 01:29:08,040 --> 01:29:09,080 Speaker 3: We've talked about this in some of. 1732 01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:12,880 Speaker 4: Our Brazil episodes, but the very short version is that 1733 01:29:12,920 --> 01:29:15,320 Speaker 4: a lot of a lot of countries that produce sort 1734 01:29:15,320 --> 01:29:17,800 Speaker 4: of primary commodities, so like you know, your copper, your 1735 01:29:18,040 --> 01:29:22,840 Speaker 4: sort of your natural gas, you know, I mean things 1736 01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:26,280 Speaker 4: like soybeans to kind of fall in this category. You know, 1737 01:29:26,360 --> 01:29:28,639 Speaker 4: so you're you're you're sort of minding stuff, or you're 1738 01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:30,680 Speaker 4: some some of you some of your farming stuff. All 1739 01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:37,040 Speaker 4: of these sort of industrial input primary commodity stuff all 1740 01:29:37,080 --> 01:29:40,360 Speaker 4: got you know, massive price spikes in early two thousands 1741 01:29:40,400 --> 01:29:43,639 Speaker 4: because the Chinese economy had integrated into into the rest 1742 01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:46,200 Speaker 4: of the world economy fully by you know, joining the 1743 01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:49,800 Speaker 4: joining the World Trade Organization, and this set off this 1744 01:29:49,920 --> 01:29:51,400 Speaker 4: massive industrialization boom in. 1745 01:29:51,439 --> 01:29:53,559 Speaker 3: China, and you know, the Chinese. 1746 01:29:53,760 --> 01:29:57,639 Speaker 4: The the levels of sort of demand that this induces 1747 01:29:57,720 --> 01:30:00,879 Speaker 4: is unbelievable because Chinese economic growth in that period is unreal, 1748 01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:03,800 Speaker 4: and it's it's economic growth that is unreal in a 1749 01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:07,040 Speaker 4: country with a billion people in it. So this produced 1750 01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:10,160 Speaker 4: a kind of shock of demand for all of these 1751 01:30:10,200 --> 01:30:14,760 Speaker 4: sort of mineral resources that was not entirely unprecedented, but 1752 01:30:16,240 --> 01:30:18,880 Speaker 4: enormously large, and also allowed all of these sort of 1753 01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:23,920 Speaker 4: social democratic economies to you know, kind of paper over 1754 01:30:24,200 --> 01:30:27,360 Speaker 4: the inherent contradictions of their base being both capitalists and 1755 01:30:27,479 --> 01:30:30,840 Speaker 4: also a bunch of like unions by there just sort 1756 01:30:30,840 --> 01:30:33,640 Speaker 4: of being enough state revenue from all of these all 1757 01:30:33,640 --> 01:30:36,439 Speaker 4: of these exports to just kind of buy everyone off. 1758 01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:38,040 Speaker 3: Of paper everything clantalism. 1759 01:30:38,960 --> 01:30:42,559 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and that stops working when the economy goes under. 1760 01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:45,240 Speaker 4: But Bolivia's economy does a lot better than the rest 1761 01:30:45,240 --> 01:30:46,759 Speaker 4: of the economies in the region. 1762 01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:48,320 Speaker 3: There are there are a lot of reasons for this. 1763 01:30:48,400 --> 01:30:51,120 Speaker 4: Part of it is that you know, are say, who 1764 01:30:51,120 --> 01:30:53,960 Speaker 4: is running the economy of Bolivia in the sort of 1765 01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:56,519 Speaker 4: the period, like post two thousand and eight period, when 1766 01:30:56,560 --> 01:31:00,280 Speaker 4: everyone else economies are collapsing. He is genuinely doing some 1767 01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:05,760 Speaker 4: pretty interesting macroeconomic stuff. Also, the other thing that's going 1768 01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:09,479 Speaker 4: on is that Bolivia main expert and people. Okay, so 1769 01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:11,559 Speaker 4: people in the US tend to think of Bolivia as 1770 01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:15,080 Speaker 4: a country that produces lithium. That's not true. That might 1771 01:31:15,160 --> 01:31:17,720 Speaker 4: be true maybe thirty years in the future that will 1772 01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:21,400 Speaker 4: be Bolivia's primary export. But Bolivia's primary export for the 1773 01:31:21,439 --> 01:31:25,880 Speaker 4: last two decades has been natural gas, and natural gas 1774 01:31:25,920 --> 01:31:28,200 Speaker 4: prices didn't quite do the same thing that sort of 1775 01:31:28,280 --> 01:31:31,400 Speaker 4: oil prices did that kind of imploded the Venezuelan economy. Yeah, 1776 01:31:32,560 --> 01:31:37,080 Speaker 4: and so through sort of like economic management and these 1777 01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:41,400 Speaker 4: sort of political alliances, and you know, the high price 1778 01:31:41,439 --> 01:31:45,040 Speaker 4: in natural gas, the Bolivian economy has sort of been fine. Unfortunately, 1779 01:31:45,040 --> 01:31:47,960 Speaker 4: what's happening right now is that Bolivia is running out 1780 01:31:47,960 --> 01:31:50,759 Speaker 4: of natural gas. And because it's running out of natural gas, 1781 01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:54,000 Speaker 4: and also because their economy is an export based economy 1782 01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:55,520 Speaker 4: based on natural gas. 1783 01:31:55,479 --> 01:31:58,719 Speaker 3: Not so good, nusuge good vibes. Yeah, it's very bad. 1784 01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:01,479 Speaker 4: The entire economy is full, all your part because you 1785 01:32:01,479 --> 01:32:04,000 Speaker 4: know this this is a very very classic kind of 1786 01:32:04,040 --> 01:32:07,559 Speaker 4: economic crisis. You know, the econdoic crisis are having is 1787 01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:09,960 Speaker 4: I'm not saying it described as a balance of payments crisis, 1788 01:32:10,000 --> 01:32:12,320 Speaker 4: but that's what it is, which is that the Oblivion 1789 01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:16,640 Speaker 4: economy works on buying things with American dollars. So you know, 1790 01:32:16,840 --> 01:32:18,599 Speaker 4: like a lot of the businesses in the country involved 1791 01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:21,280 Speaker 4: are sort of import businesses, right, you know, I mean 1792 01:32:21,400 --> 01:32:23,879 Speaker 4: I know people who run businesses like this in Bolivia 1793 01:32:23,920 --> 01:32:29,519 Speaker 4: where you know, you're inputting shoes or like motors, yeah, 1794 01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:31,920 Speaker 4: stuff like that, and you buy them with American dollars 1795 01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:33,400 Speaker 4: and you sell them in Bolivia. But the thing is 1796 01:32:33,439 --> 01:32:35,960 Speaker 4: this requires a constant supply of American dollars to go 1797 01:32:36,000 --> 01:32:39,360 Speaker 4: buy good manufacture goods from other places, because Bolivia's manufacturing 1798 01:32:39,360 --> 01:32:41,599 Speaker 4: economy is effectively is a joke. And this is something 1799 01:32:41,640 --> 01:32:43,960 Speaker 4: that was true of all of these economies. I mean, 1800 01:32:44,000 --> 01:32:49,160 Speaker 4: Bolivia never they kind of tried to industrialize in the seventies, 1801 01:32:49,200 --> 01:32:50,800 Speaker 4: but they never got as far along with it as 1802 01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:52,920 Speaker 4: a country like Brazil or country like Venezuela did in 1803 01:32:52,920 --> 01:32:55,600 Speaker 4: the seventies. And the other thing about these all these 1804 01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:57,559 Speaker 4: sort of pink Tai governments is they all took power 1805 01:32:57,640 --> 01:33:00,840 Speaker 4: in economies that have been completely deindustrialized man liberalism, right. 1806 01:33:00,880 --> 01:33:02,080 Speaker 3: We talked about this with Brazil. 1807 01:33:02,160 --> 01:33:04,760 Speaker 4: Brazil went from a country that was a kind of 1808 01:33:04,800 --> 01:33:06,920 Speaker 4: like effectively a first not quite a first, right, but 1809 01:33:06,960 --> 01:33:10,760 Speaker 4: maybe a second tier a large, a powerful second tier 1810 01:33:10,760 --> 01:33:14,800 Speaker 4: industrial power to a country whose economy is almost entirely 1811 01:33:14,800 --> 01:33:17,759 Speaker 4: based on sort of primary commodity production and farming bullshit. 1812 01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:20,200 Speaker 4: So they've they've moved down that they've moved down the 1813 01:33:20,280 --> 01:33:23,200 Speaker 4: value chain. They'vey're manufacturing less stuff, they're producing shit that's 1814 01:33:23,240 --> 01:33:26,080 Speaker 4: on the bottom. They're getting less value from the value 1815 01:33:26,120 --> 01:33:29,400 Speaker 4: added bullshit moving up the chain. And this is this 1816 01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:31,439 Speaker 4: is also the problem with the beliving economy, and because 1817 01:33:31,439 --> 01:33:34,320 Speaker 4: the natural gases is drying up, they don't have enough 1818 01:33:34,400 --> 01:33:37,679 Speaker 4: dollars coming into the economy for people to use to 1819 01:33:37,880 --> 01:33:41,400 Speaker 4: buy things. And the Bolivian currency is also pegged to 1820 01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:43,920 Speaker 4: the dollar, right, so there's supposed to be an official 1821 01:33:43,960 --> 01:33:46,719 Speaker 4: exchange rate at which you know, X amount of money 1822 01:33:46,760 --> 01:33:49,799 Speaker 4: is worth x amount of dollars, and that's all falling apart. 1823 01:33:49,920 --> 01:33:53,639 Speaker 4: People are sort of running around in the streets trying 1824 01:33:53,680 --> 01:33:58,440 Speaker 4: to find people who will exchange like their currency for dollars. 1825 01:33:59,000 --> 01:34:00,360 Speaker 3: This is this is you know. So so this is 1826 01:34:00,360 --> 01:34:01,839 Speaker 3: a classic short of balance of payments. 1827 01:34:02,280 --> 01:34:04,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, well it's kind of because it's kind of kind 1828 01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:06,519 Speaker 4: of a balancing, but they're having a giant dollar shortage. 1829 01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:10,720 Speaker 4: This is really really messing up. No, I mean not 1830 01:34:10,800 --> 01:34:13,400 Speaker 4: just the economy, but the entire political system is really 1831 01:34:13,479 --> 01:34:18,960 Speaker 4: kind of coming apart under this. Now, okay, I I 1832 01:34:19,280 --> 01:34:22,439 Speaker 4: talked about things kind of coming apart there. There there 1833 01:34:22,560 --> 01:34:25,360 Speaker 4: is another thing that is coming apart in Bolivia, which 1834 01:34:25,400 --> 01:34:29,080 Speaker 4: is the m AS is shattering. Yes, the shattering, it's 1835 01:34:29,120 --> 01:34:32,840 Speaker 4: it's it's splintering in two. So what is the m 1836 01:34:32,840 --> 01:34:36,559 Speaker 4: A S So the m AS is this part? Oh okay, 1837 01:34:36,600 --> 01:34:39,599 Speaker 4: so it has a slightly weirder history, which is that 1838 01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:42,000 Speaker 4: so the m a S was a completely random actually 1839 01:34:42,080 --> 01:34:47,080 Speaker 4: kind of kind of right wing political party, but importantly 1840 01:34:47,160 --> 01:34:51,040 Speaker 4: it hads electoral status, so it was it was it's 1841 01:34:51,080 --> 01:34:53,920 Speaker 4: a party that was taken over by the social movements 1842 01:34:53,960 --> 01:34:55,639 Speaker 4: at the end of the sort of stuff stuff we're 1843 01:34:55,640 --> 01:34:56,960 Speaker 4: going to get to in order to be able to 1844 01:34:57,040 --> 01:34:58,960 Speaker 4: run like you need in order to be able to 1845 01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:00,320 Speaker 4: run candidates for office. 1846 01:35:00,520 --> 01:35:02,719 Speaker 3: But this means that because again because it was literally 1847 01:35:03,200 --> 01:35:04,480 Speaker 3: it was an existing. 1848 01:35:04,200 --> 01:35:06,719 Speaker 4: Legal, registered party that was taken over from the outside, 1849 01:35:06,760 --> 01:35:10,240 Speaker 4: and because of how it emerged, it's always been seen 1850 01:35:10,439 --> 01:35:13,400 Speaker 4: as sort of a movement party, right It's supposed to 1851 01:35:13,439 --> 01:35:15,679 Speaker 4: be like the assembly of Oblivia sort of left. 1852 01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:18,759 Speaker 3: Wing social movements. And these left wing social. 1853 01:35:18,560 --> 01:35:21,200 Speaker 4: Movements are the movements that i emerge in quite the 1854 01:35:21,240 --> 01:35:23,280 Speaker 4: right word, but are the movements that solidified it began 1855 01:35:23,360 --> 01:35:25,880 Speaker 4: to sort of exert their power from two thousand and 1856 01:35:25,920 --> 01:35:30,200 Speaker 4: two thousand and six in this enormous sequence of social 1857 01:35:30,280 --> 01:35:32,680 Speaker 4: uprising against sort of Bolivia neoliberalism. 1858 01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:34,040 Speaker 3: The most famous of these are the. 1859 01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:37,960 Speaker 4: Water and gas wars, which are these fights against water 1860 01:35:38,000 --> 01:35:42,200 Speaker 4: privatization and the sort of gas line and this alliance 1861 01:35:42,360 --> 01:35:47,360 Speaker 4: of peasant unions, the traditional sort of urban urban sort 1862 01:35:47,360 --> 01:35:50,920 Speaker 4: of proletariat like traditional sort of like urban left. 1863 01:35:51,320 --> 01:35:52,040 Speaker 3: These these new. 1864 01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:55,760 Speaker 4: Street movements, coca growers unions, miners unions, and a whole 1865 01:35:55,880 --> 01:35:57,720 Speaker 4: array of indigenous groups that we frankly do you don't 1866 01:35:57,760 --> 01:36:00,479 Speaker 4: have time to get into here because the politics are 1867 01:36:00,640 --> 01:36:04,320 Speaker 4: extremely the philosophy is extremely complicate. I don't know if 1868 01:36:04,320 --> 01:36:06,479 Speaker 4: I've talked about this on the show before, but one 1869 01:36:06,479 --> 01:36:10,080 Speaker 4: of the I mean, we're talking about like like they 1870 01:36:10,080 --> 01:36:13,840 Speaker 4: have like philosophical constructs that I don't understand. It's this 1871 01:36:13,920 --> 01:36:17,439 Speaker 4: philosophical construct that's like a dialectic, but there's three parts 1872 01:36:17,439 --> 01:36:19,960 Speaker 4: of it, and they don't it doesn't resolve. They just 1873 01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:22,800 Speaker 4: all kind of grind intension with each other. Right, So like, Okay, 1874 01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:26,000 Speaker 4: we're not really going to get into that. It's outside 1875 01:36:26,040 --> 01:36:28,240 Speaker 4: the scope of the show of If you're more interested 1876 01:36:28,240 --> 01:36:32,800 Speaker 4: in this, read Rhythms of the PATCHACOUTI or get a doctorate. 1877 01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:38,240 Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, yeah, we returned to grad school. Your 1878 01:36:38,280 --> 01:36:39,320 Speaker 3: options are limited. 1879 01:36:39,640 --> 01:36:41,600 Speaker 4: But you know, there's this coalition of of all of 1880 01:36:41,640 --> 01:36:45,680 Speaker 4: the kinds of unions, these rural unions or urban unions, 1881 01:36:46,160 --> 01:36:50,000 Speaker 4: urban street movements, real street movements, gather together, gather their strength, 1882 01:36:50,200 --> 01:36:55,400 Speaker 4: set up a million roadblocks, and just smash the neoliberal right. 1883 01:36:55,520 --> 01:37:00,800 Speaker 3: They are. The oblivious right is basically completely destroyed from 1884 01:37:00,800 --> 01:37:04,080 Speaker 3: the period of two thousand and six until twenty nineteen. 1885 01:37:04,800 --> 01:37:06,519 Speaker 3: That was the first time they ever took power. They 1886 01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:08,439 Speaker 3: did it in a coup and they held power for 1887 01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:14,519 Speaker 3: about one year before they were kicked out of power again. 1888 01:37:14,960 --> 01:37:20,000 Speaker 3: So they basically completely reshaped all of politics in Bolivia. 1889 01:37:20,680 --> 01:37:23,680 Speaker 3: Those the second round of roadblocks very nearly destroyed the 1890 01:37:23,680 --> 01:37:26,360 Speaker 3: Bolivian state until as I sort of allatedd to earlier. 1891 01:37:26,400 --> 01:37:28,479 Speaker 3: Even More, Alles pulled his supporters out the barricade in 1892 01:37:28,600 --> 01:37:30,400 Speaker 3: order to get an election in two thousand and six, 1893 01:37:30,920 --> 01:37:32,799 Speaker 3: and this is the election of the MS one. 1894 01:37:33,240 --> 01:37:36,200 Speaker 4: And to understand the kind of seismic change of this right, 1895 01:37:36,240 --> 01:37:38,600 Speaker 4: the MAAS is the first party in the history of 1896 01:37:38,600 --> 01:37:40,920 Speaker 4: Bolivia to win a majority of the season the parliament 1897 01:37:40,960 --> 01:37:45,719 Speaker 4: by itself first party ever. It completely destroyed the existing 1898 01:37:45,760 --> 01:37:48,680 Speaker 4: sort of political system. And again this was supposed to 1899 01:37:48,720 --> 01:37:50,320 Speaker 4: be a sort of a sort of new kind of 1900 01:37:50,320 --> 01:37:53,439 Speaker 4: party right. The theory of the MAS is the organization 1901 01:37:53,479 --> 01:37:56,879 Speaker 4: of the social movements. Former vice president and sometimes Marxist 1902 01:37:56,960 --> 01:38:02,600 Speaker 4: Garcia Leneria described it as quote, there's a dialectical relationship 1903 01:38:02,640 --> 01:38:05,160 Speaker 4: between the social movements and the party. Now this is 1904 01:38:05,200 --> 01:38:11,720 Speaker 4: a lie. Or more precisely, if this is a dialectic, 1905 01:38:11,800 --> 01:38:14,760 Speaker 4: it is not a Hegelian or Marxist dialectic, where the 1906 01:38:14,760 --> 01:38:18,200 Speaker 4: sublation of two parts creates a concrete totality or a 1907 01:38:18,240 --> 01:38:19,880 Speaker 4: whole that is neither of the things that all is 1908 01:38:20,080 --> 01:38:23,160 Speaker 4: for it. This is a Maoist dialectic where two sides 1909 01:38:23,200 --> 01:38:24,960 Speaker 4: face off each other with each other, and one of 1910 01:38:24,960 --> 01:38:26,200 Speaker 4: them hits the other side of the help with a 1911 01:38:26,240 --> 01:38:27,439 Speaker 4: hammer until it dies. 1912 01:38:27,880 --> 01:38:30,960 Speaker 3: It's just a conflict. It's just there are two three 1913 01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:32,720 Speaker 3: people and they both want to control the thing. 1914 01:38:33,000 --> 01:38:36,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, so. 1915 01:38:37,760 --> 01:38:39,120 Speaker 3: That's what ends up happening. Right. 1916 01:38:39,360 --> 01:38:42,360 Speaker 4: So, the social movements and the indigenous movements in particular 1917 01:38:42,400 --> 01:38:46,479 Speaker 4: have been fracturing for a decade. You know, there are 1918 01:38:46,520 --> 01:38:49,360 Speaker 4: a whole series of large fights, even even in sort 1919 01:38:49,360 --> 01:38:53,200 Speaker 4: of like the early twenty tens over sort of of 1920 01:38:53,280 --> 01:38:56,160 Speaker 4: the NIS doing these infrastructure things that everyone else in 1921 01:38:56,200 --> 01:38:58,000 Speaker 4: the country was like, why are you building a road 1922 01:38:58,000 --> 01:38:58,880 Speaker 4: to indigenous land. 1923 01:38:58,880 --> 01:39:01,280 Speaker 3: There's huge fights, many such cases. 1924 01:39:01,920 --> 01:39:05,439 Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know, this is the kind of hollowing 1925 01:39:05,439 --> 01:39:07,760 Speaker 4: out in the kind of conflict that had led to 1926 01:39:08,040 --> 01:39:11,000 Speaker 4: the social movements being completely unable to overturn the coup 1927 01:39:11,000 --> 01:39:13,040 Speaker 4: in twenty nineteen, and it taking them until the end 1928 01:39:13,120 --> 01:39:15,960 Speaker 4: of twenty twenty to really pull their shit together. 1929 01:39:16,160 --> 01:39:18,479 Speaker 3: And you know, overturn the. 1930 01:39:18,439 --> 01:39:26,400 Speaker 4: Coup and you know, you know what else overturns coups. 1931 01:39:26,240 --> 01:39:29,479 Speaker 3: That's a that's a f promits is it arming the 1932 01:39:29,520 --> 01:39:30,720 Speaker 3: working class? 1933 01:39:30,760 --> 01:39:34,960 Speaker 4: It is the working class we are sponsored by yeah, 1934 01:39:35,080 --> 01:39:42,040 Speaker 4: or in the entire working class. 1935 01:39:47,680 --> 01:39:50,640 Speaker 3: We're back. So okay, So now we get to the 1936 01:39:50,960 --> 01:39:52,800 Speaker 3: present spling the social movements. 1937 01:39:53,080 --> 01:39:57,120 Speaker 4: What has happened now is that you know, are say 1938 01:39:57,360 --> 01:40:02,240 Speaker 4: and and even Morale had always kind of gotten along usually, 1939 01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:06,639 Speaker 4: but once you know, our say took power, he instead 1940 01:40:06,640 --> 01:40:09,280 Speaker 4: of he didn't want to sort of just be a 1941 01:40:09,360 --> 01:40:11,439 Speaker 4: proxy for even Morales. He had his own sort of 1942 01:40:11,479 --> 01:40:16,160 Speaker 4: actually like not great agenda either, a sort of more 1943 01:40:16,240 --> 01:40:18,880 Speaker 4: technocratic agenda. Although you know, you have to sort of 1944 01:40:18,920 --> 01:40:21,439 Speaker 4: ask Evil, like you're the one who brought these people 1945 01:40:21,439 --> 01:40:23,440 Speaker 4: into the party, Like, I don't know what you were expecting. 1946 01:40:24,680 --> 01:40:26,400 Speaker 4: You brought these people in that they weren't going to 1947 01:40:26,439 --> 01:40:29,799 Speaker 4: governed as a sort of center left technocratic capitalist government. 1948 01:40:30,120 --> 01:40:33,719 Speaker 4: You know, you could have seen this coming, but they 1949 01:40:33,760 --> 01:40:36,880 Speaker 4: they have been increasingly fighting, and the two sides are 1950 01:40:36,920 --> 01:40:40,760 Speaker 4: now implacably hostile. They are saying evil, fucking hate each other. 1951 01:40:41,120 --> 01:40:44,719 Speaker 4: And this, this divide has split every single social movement 1952 01:40:44,800 --> 01:40:47,280 Speaker 4: in Bolivia, from the Landless Workers' Movement to the cocoa growers, 1953 01:40:47,280 --> 01:40:49,719 Speaker 4: to the indigenous federations, to the fucking urban trade unions 1954 01:40:49,760 --> 01:40:52,840 Speaker 4: to the miners unions. Every one of these organizations either 1955 01:40:53,160 --> 01:40:56,240 Speaker 4: has officially split into two factions as one's in Evil 1956 01:40:56,280 --> 01:40:58,599 Speaker 4: faction and ones in our save faction, or they are 1957 01:40:58,600 --> 01:41:01,400 Speaker 4: in the middle of the fight where you know, they're 1958 01:41:01,439 --> 01:41:04,639 Speaker 4: they're they're both sides are still fighting for control over 1959 01:41:04,960 --> 01:41:08,200 Speaker 4: over you know, their union federation. And this is not 1960 01:41:08,439 --> 01:41:10,599 Speaker 4: a clean left right split, which is this is actually 1961 01:41:10,600 --> 01:41:12,080 Speaker 4: I mean, that was kind of what I was expecting 1962 01:41:12,360 --> 01:41:15,040 Speaker 4: ish when this fight started, that I was sort of 1963 01:41:15,040 --> 01:41:16,320 Speaker 4: expecting that this was going to end up as a 1964 01:41:16,360 --> 01:41:18,799 Speaker 4: fight between sort of you know, the left of social 1965 01:41:18,840 --> 01:41:20,920 Speaker 4: movements and the sort of center right base. But that's 1966 01:41:20,960 --> 01:41:24,840 Speaker 4: not really what happens. It is kind of a left 1967 01:41:24,920 --> 01:41:28,639 Speaker 4: right split, but you know, it's also a split over 1968 01:41:28,680 --> 01:41:31,760 Speaker 4: the person of Evo himself. And because it partially a 1969 01:41:31,800 --> 01:41:33,880 Speaker 4: split over Evo himself. There's a lot of like sort 1970 01:41:33,880 --> 01:41:37,200 Speaker 4: of more left wing groups that are kind of are 1971 01:41:37,320 --> 01:41:39,439 Speaker 4: kind of backing our say, because they don't want even 1972 01:41:39,439 --> 01:41:42,519 Speaker 4: morallies to come back into power and re solidify his 1973 01:41:42,520 --> 01:41:44,920 Speaker 4: control over all of these all the social movements, and 1974 01:41:44,960 --> 01:41:47,880 Speaker 4: they're you know, angry at him for a whole series 1975 01:41:48,040 --> 01:41:52,320 Speaker 4: of attempts to sort of co opt their movements. It's also, 1976 01:41:52,400 --> 01:41:54,320 Speaker 4: you know, it's also it's also a split about sort 1977 01:41:54,320 --> 01:41:56,640 Speaker 4: of how autonomous the social movement should be, should be 1978 01:41:56,640 --> 01:41:59,759 Speaker 4: able to be from government policy. It's it's a it's 1979 01:42:00,320 --> 01:42:02,680 Speaker 4: you know, it's kind of external to this. But one 1980 01:42:02,720 --> 01:42:04,240 Speaker 4: of the other thing that's going on is that Evo 1981 01:42:04,320 --> 01:42:06,439 Speaker 4: has been really unpopular with a lot of feminist groups 1982 01:42:06,479 --> 01:42:09,240 Speaker 4: in Bolivia for a very long time for a lot 1983 01:42:09,240 --> 01:42:12,479 Speaker 4: of reasons, including I mean, you know, one of the 1984 01:42:12,479 --> 01:42:16,479 Speaker 4: big ones is Bolivia's horrific femicide crisis, which the MAAS 1985 01:42:16,560 --> 01:42:18,439 Speaker 4: has been in power for almost twenty years and has 1986 01:42:18,479 --> 01:42:22,640 Speaker 4: done jack shit to actually like deal with, right, you know, 1987 01:42:22,720 --> 01:42:25,440 Speaker 4: So there's there are all of these sort of fractures 1988 01:42:25,920 --> 01:42:29,719 Speaker 4: breaking out. Partially also it's a war between for control 1989 01:42:29,760 --> 01:42:32,559 Speaker 4: of the MAAS, between the Coca goers unions and the 1990 01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:36,040 Speaker 4: miners unions. So this is a shit show. It is 1991 01:42:36,080 --> 01:42:37,960 Speaker 4: a complete fiasca. And then you know the thing that 1992 01:42:38,000 --> 01:42:39,840 Speaker 4: makes it more with fiasco is, you know, we talked 1993 01:42:39,840 --> 01:42:42,759 Speaker 4: about this sort of with uh we We did an episode 1994 01:42:42,760 --> 01:42:45,439 Speaker 4: about kind of what's been happening with with the sort 1995 01:42:45,479 --> 01:42:49,040 Speaker 4: of pink tied governments a while back, and you know, 1996 01:42:49,080 --> 01:42:50,400 Speaker 4: one of the things you talked about in that episode 1997 01:42:50,479 --> 01:42:53,519 Speaker 4: was Ecuador, where Ecuador has this left wing base that 1998 01:42:53,680 --> 01:42:56,479 Speaker 4: should win every single election until the end of time, 1999 01:42:56,720 --> 01:42:58,840 Speaker 4: and they don't because they're constantly fighting each other. And 2000 01:42:58,840 --> 01:43:02,120 Speaker 4: this is effectively the beginning of hopefully it doesn't turn 2001 01:43:02,160 --> 01:43:04,439 Speaker 4: into that. But I mean the m a s if 2002 01:43:04,479 --> 01:43:06,840 Speaker 4: it is, if it is even sort of united, is 2003 01:43:06,840 --> 01:43:10,240 Speaker 4: in unprecedented Bolivian political juggernaut. It should win every election, 2004 01:43:11,200 --> 01:43:12,479 Speaker 4: like I mean, not till the end of time. They 2005 01:43:12,479 --> 01:43:14,800 Speaker 4: probably probably should only win I don't know that they 2006 01:43:15,200 --> 01:43:17,559 Speaker 4: have had demographic issues right now. 2007 01:43:17,760 --> 01:43:19,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know they should. 2008 01:43:18,920 --> 01:43:21,880 Speaker 4: Still be winning effectively every every election and they're not. 2009 01:43:22,040 --> 01:43:24,160 Speaker 4: And the reason that they're not is because of this 2010 01:43:24,320 --> 01:43:26,519 Speaker 4: ship or a lousion. They might not is because of 2011 01:43:26,520 --> 01:43:28,439 Speaker 4: because of all of these all all of these splits 2012 01:43:28,760 --> 01:43:32,720 Speaker 4: and these are very these this isn't a These are 2013 01:43:33,000 --> 01:43:36,360 Speaker 4: very very serious political splits. I mean, uh, one of 2014 01:43:36,400 --> 01:43:40,040 Speaker 4: the miners workers meetings, very famously, the two sides broke 2015 01:43:40,080 --> 01:43:42,360 Speaker 4: into into fist fights. I think one hundred and forty 2016 01:43:42,400 --> 01:43:46,160 Speaker 4: people were injured. So you know, this is this is 2017 01:43:46,200 --> 01:43:49,240 Speaker 4: these are these are very serious fights. There's also a 2018 01:43:49,240 --> 01:43:51,919 Speaker 4: whole disaster right now over who actually is the candidate 2019 01:43:51,960 --> 01:43:54,839 Speaker 4: of the m a s Because Evo held this Congress 2020 01:43:54,960 --> 01:43:56,920 Speaker 4: of the m as it was his supporters that Arse 2021 01:43:57,160 --> 01:43:58,800 Speaker 4: was not at and they said that because he didn't, 2022 01:43:58,800 --> 01:44:00,439 Speaker 4: because r didn't show up, he was kicked out of 2023 01:44:00,439 --> 01:44:01,480 Speaker 4: the party. 2024 01:44:03,160 --> 01:44:06,360 Speaker 3: Classic, So this is this whole thing. So few typically 2025 01:44:06,439 --> 01:44:07,080 Speaker 3: been expelled. 2026 01:44:07,080 --> 01:44:09,400 Speaker 4: But like the courts got the electoral courts are now 2027 01:44:09,439 --> 01:44:14,400 Speaker 4: involved because the electoral courts have to decide what like, 2028 01:44:15,000 --> 01:44:17,200 Speaker 4: you know that they have to figure out what candidate 2029 01:44:17,240 --> 01:44:22,000 Speaker 4: their party's running. So it's this, it's it's a complete catastrophe. 2030 01:44:22,320 --> 01:44:27,040 Speaker 4: And in the midst of this complete catastrophe there is 2031 01:44:28,320 --> 01:44:32,439 Speaker 4: the worst coup of the twenty first century. So let 2032 01:44:32,479 --> 01:44:35,680 Speaker 4: a lot of let's get into finally this coup. So 2033 01:44:35,840 --> 01:44:38,280 Speaker 4: this coup is run by a guy named Juan Jose 2034 01:44:38,479 --> 01:44:41,120 Speaker 4: Zunjega is the He's the commander of the Bolivian Army. 2035 01:44:41,160 --> 01:44:43,719 Speaker 4: He is hand picked by Arsay to run the army, 2036 01:44:43,720 --> 01:44:48,080 Speaker 4: to be the guy who yes is yeah, and this 2037 01:44:48,160 --> 01:44:50,839 Speaker 4: is you know this this this has sort of shades 2038 01:44:50,960 --> 01:44:54,519 Speaker 4: of the fact that Pinochet was sort of elevated by 2039 01:44:54,880 --> 01:44:58,519 Speaker 4: by Allende and the Social Democrats, but reminds me of 2040 01:44:58,560 --> 01:45:02,320 Speaker 4: Franco as well, like getting prom about this, Yeah, this 2041 01:45:02,479 --> 01:45:04,440 Speaker 4: was this, those were tragedy. 2042 01:45:04,479 --> 01:45:05,280 Speaker 3: This is farce. 2043 01:45:06,600 --> 01:45:10,920 Speaker 4: So what happens is that on Tuesday of last week, 2044 01:45:11,479 --> 01:45:16,120 Speaker 4: Niega goes on TV and says, I am going to 2045 01:45:16,400 --> 01:45:19,920 Speaker 4: like Louis evil morallies cannot be allowed to take power again. 2046 01:45:20,000 --> 01:45:21,960 Speaker 4: I will stop him from taking power. 2047 01:45:23,120 --> 01:45:26,439 Speaker 3: And our say is like, dude, what the fuck? 2048 01:45:27,320 --> 01:45:31,479 Speaker 4: Just immediately fires him, because you know you can't do that. 2049 01:45:32,560 --> 01:45:36,719 Speaker 3: Yes, Like almost every every country with a codified constitution 2050 01:45:36,920 --> 01:45:40,120 Speaker 3: has prohibitions on its military intervening and its politics, right, 2051 01:45:40,160 --> 01:45:43,960 Speaker 3: like yeah, the basics of democracy. 2052 01:45:45,439 --> 01:45:49,120 Speaker 4: Bolivia has had a series of military governments and military 2053 01:45:49,120 --> 01:45:54,320 Speaker 4: cups across this twentieth century, including the the god the 2054 01:45:54,320 --> 01:45:58,519 Speaker 4: fucking Cocaine coup that I've talked about at length in 2055 01:45:58,600 --> 01:46:00,760 Speaker 4: our world of the Communist League episod that ends with 2056 01:46:00,800 --> 01:46:04,400 Speaker 4: like Klaus Barbie fucking running around, right, So I mean, 2057 01:46:04,439 --> 01:46:07,760 Speaker 4: you know, like this is a country that has had 2058 01:46:08,240 --> 01:46:12,200 Speaker 4: military q is quite literally staffed by actual Nazis, right, 2059 01:46:12,760 --> 01:46:15,120 Speaker 4: so you know, this is this is a place that 2060 01:46:15,160 --> 01:46:17,240 Speaker 4: take that takes the threat of a military queue very 2061 01:46:17,360 --> 01:46:21,040 Speaker 4: very seriously. There hasn't been one, blessedly in a long time, 2062 01:46:21,439 --> 01:46:23,200 Speaker 4: but there's a lot of people who are fucking alive 2063 01:46:23,240 --> 01:46:26,639 Speaker 4: for the last one. And you know, and so this 2064 01:46:26,640 --> 01:46:30,000 Speaker 4: this is you know, people are extremely unhappy, even people 2065 01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:33,080 Speaker 4: who I think in theory would be okay with, you know, 2066 01:46:33,120 --> 01:46:37,040 Speaker 4: the government being deposed, like absolutely, under no circumstances want 2067 01:46:37,040 --> 01:46:39,839 Speaker 4: the fucking military running in the country because again, everyone 2068 01:46:39,880 --> 01:46:41,720 Speaker 4: fucking remembers how bad that shit was. 2069 01:46:42,240 --> 01:46:43,360 Speaker 3: But what appears duff. 2070 01:46:43,160 --> 01:46:48,880 Speaker 4: Happened is that Zaninka realizes that so he's just been fired, right, 2071 01:46:48,920 --> 01:46:51,479 Speaker 4: which means that he has a very short time window 2072 01:46:51,800 --> 01:46:53,920 Speaker 4: in which he could try to pull some shit, Which 2073 01:46:54,000 --> 01:46:56,040 Speaker 4: means that whatever whenever he may have been planning, I 2074 01:46:56,080 --> 01:46:58,439 Speaker 4: don't know what his actual plans were. He may have 2075 01:46:58,439 --> 01:47:00,400 Speaker 4: been actually planning a coup, he may not have been 2076 01:47:00,479 --> 01:47:02,320 Speaker 4: until here was just immediately like, well, I guess we 2077 01:47:02,360 --> 01:47:02,960 Speaker 4: have to do it now. 2078 01:47:03,439 --> 01:47:06,679 Speaker 3: If it was planning, it wasn't planning very well, because yeah, yeah, 2079 01:47:06,840 --> 01:47:09,479 Speaker 3: what results from this for this very I think results 2080 01:47:09,479 --> 01:47:12,040 Speaker 3: on this very short timetable is the worst cup I've 2081 01:47:12,040 --> 01:47:12,519 Speaker 3: ever seen. 2082 01:47:13,080 --> 01:47:15,880 Speaker 4: So what appears to have happened is that on Wednesday 2083 01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:18,840 Speaker 4: he gathers the troops that he's able to gather, which 2084 01:47:18,840 --> 01:47:22,040 Speaker 4: is not that I mean we're talking like a hundred guys. 2085 01:47:22,080 --> 01:47:23,599 Speaker 3: Maybe it was. 2086 01:47:23,560 --> 01:47:25,840 Speaker 4: Not a you know, they they had a decent number 2087 01:47:25,840 --> 01:47:28,000 Speaker 4: of armored vehicles, but it was not like a lot 2088 01:47:28,040 --> 01:47:28,759 Speaker 4: of troops. 2089 01:47:30,160 --> 01:47:32,599 Speaker 3: It does not appay that he even had the support 2090 01:47:32,680 --> 01:47:33,960 Speaker 3: of a lot of troops, right. 2091 01:47:33,880 --> 01:47:36,280 Speaker 4: Like, yeah, a lot of the army seitster have kind 2092 01:47:36,280 --> 01:47:38,120 Speaker 4: of been sitting there going what the fuck is going on? 2093 01:47:38,280 --> 01:47:41,240 Speaker 4: But it was you know, I mean I was watching 2094 01:47:41,240 --> 01:47:44,080 Speaker 4: the videos who were like the livestreams from journalism on 2095 01:47:44,080 --> 01:47:46,360 Speaker 4: the ground of these troops and they're just they're just 2096 01:47:46,400 --> 01:47:47,280 Speaker 4: worth it, many of them. 2097 01:47:48,320 --> 01:47:51,439 Speaker 3: No, they really were, Like it was the whole thing 2098 01:47:51,760 --> 01:47:55,880 Speaker 3: was just really fucking shocking, like chockingly bad. They didn't 2099 01:47:55,880 --> 01:47:58,960 Speaker 3: even surround the building, they just went up to one door. 2100 01:47:59,479 --> 01:48:01,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's so what happens is they use in 2101 01:48:01,600 --> 01:48:04,439 Speaker 4: our vehicle to ram the door of the presidential palace, 2102 01:48:05,040 --> 01:48:06,560 Speaker 4: and they try to take control of it. But the 2103 01:48:06,880 --> 01:48:12,200 Speaker 4: thing is right are saying, is it in the presidential palace? 2104 01:48:12,520 --> 01:48:14,879 Speaker 4: He and his cabinet are in the next building over. 2105 01:48:16,240 --> 01:48:22,400 Speaker 6: So they taken the wrong building, going great, and again 2106 01:48:22,439 --> 01:48:24,680 Speaker 6: this this is not a sort of you know, this 2107 01:48:24,720 --> 01:48:25,439 Speaker 6: is not a coup. 2108 01:48:25,280 --> 01:48:29,759 Speaker 4: That follows the standard coup repertoire of I seize the president, 2109 01:48:29,840 --> 01:48:33,439 Speaker 4: sees the radio station, sees the airport, sees the trains, right, yeah, 2110 01:48:33,479 --> 01:48:35,639 Speaker 4: and have been tray control over the military barrackses, which 2111 01:48:35,680 --> 01:48:37,280 Speaker 4: is your short this is your sort of basic five 2112 01:48:37,320 --> 01:48:38,679 Speaker 4: step plan to how to do a coup. 2113 01:48:39,320 --> 01:48:42,800 Speaker 3: They will be doing that episode soon by the way. Yeah, yeah, 2114 01:48:43,520 --> 01:48:46,720 Speaker 3: given today's to find we're in the we're in the 2115 01:48:46,720 --> 01:48:48,880 Speaker 3: clear plan to do a coup. 2116 01:48:49,400 --> 01:48:51,800 Speaker 4: But you know, so they don't they don't even see 2117 01:48:51,840 --> 01:48:53,639 Speaker 4: a part one, so they're they're kind of just kind 2118 01:48:53,640 --> 01:48:59,000 Speaker 4: of milling around the front of the Presidential Palace and 2119 01:48:59,120 --> 01:49:01,599 Speaker 4: try to get into the next building where the president 2120 01:49:01,640 --> 01:49:05,880 Speaker 4: actually is. So it's also the demands are also very weird. 2121 01:49:06,760 --> 01:49:10,360 Speaker 4: So Nika claims that he's not overthrowing the governments. He 2122 01:49:10,400 --> 01:49:12,880 Speaker 4: claims that he's still loyal to our say, but he's 2123 01:49:12,920 --> 01:49:14,400 Speaker 4: going to form a new cabinet. 2124 01:49:15,320 --> 01:49:21,200 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he's useful. Yeah, that's how you normally do that. Yeah. 2125 01:49:21,240 --> 01:49:23,920 Speaker 4: So he's like yelling about the economic crisis, says he's 2126 01:49:23,920 --> 01:49:28,120 Speaker 4: going to quote restored democracy and quote release political prisoners. 2127 01:49:29,040 --> 01:49:31,000 Speaker 3: Which I kind of get. 2128 01:49:31,439 --> 01:49:34,040 Speaker 4: Okay, So the political prisoner's thing, I think is about 2129 01:49:34,080 --> 01:49:36,320 Speaker 4: the people who've been arrested for doing the twenty nineteen coup. 2130 01:49:36,320 --> 01:49:38,720 Speaker 3: I have no idea what restored democracy means. I don't 2131 01:49:38,760 --> 01:49:40,240 Speaker 3: know if he had any idea what he meant by 2132 01:49:40,240 --> 01:49:42,639 Speaker 3: restored democracy. Something was happening. 2133 01:49:43,120 --> 01:49:44,840 Speaker 4: But the thing is the other thing about this coup 2134 01:49:44,840 --> 01:49:46,880 Speaker 4: is that he has no backing at all. I mean, 2135 01:49:46,880 --> 01:49:48,439 Speaker 4: he doesn't even have back in the army, but he 2136 01:49:48,479 --> 01:49:50,240 Speaker 4: has no he doesn't even have backing among the right. 2137 01:49:50,320 --> 01:49:53,160 Speaker 4: Both Macho Camacho and Jeanina one Aye are people who 2138 01:49:53,160 --> 01:49:57,439 Speaker 4: did like the last one. Both condemned the coup. So 2139 01:49:57,800 --> 01:50:00,120 Speaker 4: people he is trying to break out of prison it 2140 01:50:00,360 --> 01:50:06,640 Speaker 4: condemned the coup. Right, This is going nowhere. 2141 01:50:05,640 --> 01:50:06,800 Speaker 3: Worst coup I've ever seen. 2142 01:50:07,479 --> 01:50:10,800 Speaker 4: So meanwhile, or say it is cabinet are in the 2143 01:50:10,840 --> 01:50:13,400 Speaker 4: next building over appointing a new commander of the army, 2144 01:50:13,680 --> 01:50:15,280 Speaker 4: so that the new commander of the army can go 2145 01:50:15,320 --> 01:50:17,720 Speaker 4: outside and order them order the troops to go back 2146 01:50:17,720 --> 01:50:18,400 Speaker 4: to their barracks. 2147 01:50:21,600 --> 01:50:22,799 Speaker 3: This is kind of what's happening. 2148 01:50:22,840 --> 01:50:25,360 Speaker 4: But also meanwhile outside so that these troops have like 2149 01:50:25,360 --> 01:50:28,120 Speaker 4: taken over the square in front of the presidential Palace, 2150 01:50:28,120 --> 01:50:30,720 Speaker 4: and that they have sort of successfully managed to take 2151 01:50:30,760 --> 01:50:34,360 Speaker 4: over the square with a bunch of sort of military police. 2152 01:50:34,040 --> 01:50:34,679 Speaker 3: And riot gear. 2153 01:50:34,720 --> 01:50:36,800 Speaker 4: But there's this sort of crowd who's come to yell 2154 01:50:36,920 --> 01:50:39,879 Speaker 4: at the army, right, and it's just very weird spectacle 2155 01:50:39,880 --> 01:50:42,880 Speaker 4: because it's there's all these soldiers to all have long guns, right, 2156 01:50:43,200 --> 01:50:46,400 Speaker 4: being protected by a light of cops with riot shields. Yeah. 2157 01:50:46,479 --> 01:50:50,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, like if you open up on the crowd, like 2158 01:50:51,280 --> 01:50:55,200 Speaker 3: have enough numbers to get every every single one of 2159 01:50:55,200 --> 01:50:58,960 Speaker 3: you is going to be individually executed. Yeah, So they're 2160 01:50:59,000 --> 01:51:03,040 Speaker 3: all people don't have guns and. 2161 01:51:02,960 --> 01:51:05,360 Speaker 4: Unless that you know, and when I say execute, I 2162 01:51:05,400 --> 01:51:06,960 Speaker 4: mean like they're they're gonna get executed by the goverment. 2163 01:51:07,040 --> 01:51:09,120 Speaker 4: That that's assuming they live long enough and are not 2164 01:51:09,200 --> 01:51:11,360 Speaker 4: just beaten to death by the crowd, which is also 2165 01:51:11,400 --> 01:51:16,240 Speaker 4: a real possibility. But you know, so this crowd is 2166 01:51:16,240 --> 01:51:18,160 Speaker 4: sort of approaching a lot of riot police. You're getting 2167 01:51:18,160 --> 01:51:19,720 Speaker 4: tear gas a bit. But this is and I kind 2168 01:51:19,720 --> 01:51:22,200 Speaker 4: of emphasize this enough, this is not a kind of 2169 01:51:22,240 --> 01:51:25,599 Speaker 4: normal like highly organized Bolivian mass protest where you know, 2170 01:51:25,760 --> 01:51:27,599 Speaker 4: all of the union, the Union's college general. 2171 01:51:27,400 --> 01:51:28,439 Speaker 3: Strike in the middle of this. 2172 01:51:28,600 --> 01:51:31,559 Speaker 4: Yeah, but again, this this whole thing lasts maybe two 2173 01:51:31,560 --> 01:51:35,360 Speaker 4: and a half hours, so there's not time to do 2174 01:51:35,479 --> 01:51:38,160 Speaker 4: the actual kind of sort of roadblocks and stuff like that. 2175 01:51:38,200 --> 01:51:40,760 Speaker 4: There's not time to actually do the organization that you 2176 01:51:40,800 --> 01:51:41,479 Speaker 4: would need to do. 2177 01:51:41,479 --> 01:51:42,280 Speaker 3: Overturn this coup. 2178 01:51:42,840 --> 01:51:46,400 Speaker 4: This coup falls apart so fast that people don't have 2179 01:51:46,439 --> 01:51:50,679 Speaker 4: time to make protest signs only have our flags. They 2180 01:51:50,760 --> 01:51:53,240 Speaker 4: do not have time to write signs out. That is 2181 01:51:53,360 --> 01:51:56,479 Speaker 4: that they don't have time to cope with chance. I 2182 01:51:56,600 --> 01:51:58,559 Speaker 4: was watching the funniest part about this whole thing, So 2183 01:51:58,680 --> 01:52:00,360 Speaker 4: I was watching a live stream of the pro testers, 2184 01:52:00,360 --> 01:52:03,280 Speaker 4: and the protesters had gotten this kind of I guess 2185 01:52:03,280 --> 01:52:05,120 Speaker 4: you call it sort of this kind of metal gate. 2186 01:52:05,320 --> 01:52:08,080 Speaker 4: I guess it was this big sort of it almost 2187 01:52:08,080 --> 01:52:09,880 Speaker 4: looked like you know how there's you get this those 2188 01:52:09,920 --> 01:52:12,000 Speaker 4: white shelves that have like metal bars, and it was 2189 01:52:12,040 --> 01:52:13,519 Speaker 4: kind of like that like cross hashed. 2190 01:52:13,520 --> 01:52:14,679 Speaker 3: It was you know, it was pretty big. 2191 01:52:15,160 --> 01:52:17,720 Speaker 4: I was like bigger than a person, and like three 2192 01:52:17,760 --> 01:52:19,800 Speaker 4: people are like carrying in front of them, like going 2193 01:52:19,840 --> 01:52:21,680 Speaker 4: to the police lane, presumably to use it as a 2194 01:52:21,680 --> 01:52:26,360 Speaker 4: battering ram. But the troops run away so fast that 2195 01:52:26,479 --> 01:52:29,160 Speaker 4: these guys couldn't get their gate up to the police 2196 01:52:29,200 --> 01:52:31,719 Speaker 4: line fast enough to use it. 2197 01:52:32,360 --> 01:52:35,840 Speaker 3: That's how you know it's going. Well, it was staggering. 2198 01:52:36,240 --> 01:52:37,080 Speaker 3: It was amazing. 2199 01:52:37,280 --> 01:52:40,519 Speaker 4: So, you know, the entire coup calls apart. Zuniga gets 2200 01:52:40,640 --> 01:52:45,040 Speaker 4: arrested on Life TV. It's like giving a press conference 2201 01:52:45,120 --> 01:52:46,439 Speaker 4: and they just like arrest them. 2202 01:52:46,960 --> 01:52:47,640 Speaker 3: Amazing. 2203 01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:50,599 Speaker 4: But at the end of this, as it's falling apart, 2204 01:52:50,680 --> 01:52:55,280 Speaker 4: the one genuinely masterful stroke that Zunjinga pulls in this 2205 01:52:55,439 --> 01:52:59,280 Speaker 4: entire I mean it missed a just a cavalcade of failure. 2206 01:53:00,160 --> 01:53:02,920 Speaker 4: One actual genius line that he does is as as 2207 01:53:02,920 --> 01:53:05,120 Speaker 4: he started being arrested, he says it's in prison too. 2208 01:53:05,600 --> 01:53:05,880 Speaker 3: Uh. 2209 01:53:05,920 --> 01:53:08,320 Speaker 4: He claims that he's been ordered by Arsay to do 2210 01:53:08,400 --> 01:53:10,639 Speaker 4: this in order to bolst ar Say's poll numbers, which 2211 01:53:10,640 --> 01:53:11,519 Speaker 4: are dog shit. 2212 01:53:12,960 --> 01:53:13,400 Speaker 3: It's fake. 2213 01:53:13,840 --> 01:53:19,240 Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, now, okay, this this whole scheme begs the question, 2214 01:53:19,640 --> 01:53:22,760 Speaker 4: what was Arsay supposed to get out of this, sorry 2215 01:53:22,840 --> 01:53:25,240 Speaker 4: not again, Why what what what is? What does he 2216 01:53:25,280 --> 01:53:25,960 Speaker 4: get out of it? Right? 2217 01:53:25,960 --> 01:53:27,799 Speaker 3: Because she's just going to prison. 2218 01:53:28,200 --> 01:53:30,080 Speaker 4: It's like, why would he do it if it was 2219 01:53:30,160 --> 01:53:33,640 Speaker 4: just under orders from the president because this is a 2220 01:53:33,800 --> 01:53:37,120 Speaker 4: lose lose for him, so none of it makes any sense. 2221 01:53:37,760 --> 01:53:39,880 Speaker 3: But comma, this is. 2222 01:53:39,880 --> 01:53:43,240 Speaker 4: Immediately picked up by morele I supporters. You fucking hate 2223 01:53:43,360 --> 01:53:47,240 Speaker 4: r say, and they all immediately begin sort of repeating us. 2224 01:53:47,280 --> 01:53:49,320 Speaker 4: And now this has become sort of the official line. 2225 01:53:49,360 --> 01:53:53,280 Speaker 4: I mean, even Morales. He's been on TV and on 2226 01:53:53,320 --> 01:53:56,000 Speaker 4: social media just saying, yeah, this was this was a 2227 01:53:56,000 --> 01:53:58,080 Speaker 4: fake coup. This was a coup that Arsey did against 2228 01:53:58,120 --> 01:54:02,439 Speaker 4: himself to help his poll numbers, and this is you know, 2229 01:54:02,520 --> 01:54:04,920 Speaker 4: this is a This has turned into a real thing. 2230 01:54:04,920 --> 01:54:07,120 Speaker 4: And there's a lot of people who are sort of like, 2231 01:54:07,960 --> 01:54:11,360 Speaker 4: I don't know, the whole coup was really weird, right, 2232 01:54:11,840 --> 01:54:14,200 Speaker 4: And there's a lot of people who believe this because 2233 01:54:14,760 --> 01:54:17,519 Speaker 4: they're you know, I mean, either because they want to 2234 01:54:17,520 --> 01:54:20,679 Speaker 4: believe it, or because you know, I mean it does 2235 01:54:20,760 --> 01:54:23,360 Speaker 4: look weird, or because they fucking just hate our say 2236 01:54:23,360 --> 01:54:27,280 Speaker 4: from the beginning, right, this is all you know, as 2237 01:54:27,320 --> 01:54:28,880 Speaker 4: funny as it's sort of is this has had a 2238 01:54:28,920 --> 01:54:32,960 Speaker 4: sort of catastrophic effect on sort of just like regular 2239 01:54:32,960 --> 01:54:37,200 Speaker 4: oblivion people, because people are fucking terrified. You know, they're 2240 01:54:37,240 --> 01:54:39,680 Speaker 4: terrified that this is the beginning of the army coming 2241 01:54:39,720 --> 01:54:42,280 Speaker 4: back into politics. They're terrified that someone else is going 2242 01:54:42,320 --> 01:54:44,400 Speaker 4: to do a coup. I mean even more. Elis has 2243 01:54:44,440 --> 01:54:47,240 Speaker 4: been saying for a very long time. Actually both of 2244 01:54:47,240 --> 01:54:49,480 Speaker 4: them have been trading accusations that the other one is 2245 01:54:49,520 --> 01:54:51,800 Speaker 4: going to do a cup against them. 2246 01:54:52,080 --> 01:54:55,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, they've been banging the coup drum for a little while. 2247 01:54:55,200 --> 01:54:57,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, everyone, everyone has sort of been claiming that there's 2248 01:54:57,240 --> 01:55:00,480 Speaker 4: going to be cups happening. And all of this is 2249 01:55:00,480 --> 01:55:03,800 Speaker 4: creating this sort of cauldron of things that are extremely 2250 01:55:03,880 --> 01:55:08,400 Speaker 4: bad for the Bolivian left. The economic boom that wildered 2251 01:55:08,400 --> 01:55:11,680 Speaker 4: their coalition together is over. It's not clear anyone can 2252 01:55:11,720 --> 01:55:13,720 Speaker 4: bring it back, because again, this is a this is 2253 01:55:13,720 --> 01:55:17,320 Speaker 4: a natural gas based thing, right. And the other problem 2254 01:55:17,320 --> 01:55:19,680 Speaker 4: that they have is, you know, the problem that all 2255 01:55:19,720 --> 01:55:22,320 Speaker 4: social democracies have, which is that they've created a middle 2256 01:55:22,320 --> 01:55:25,760 Speaker 4: class base of small business owners and people with middle 2257 01:55:25,760 --> 01:55:28,760 Speaker 4: class salaries and professional jobs. And we talked about this 2258 01:55:28,760 --> 01:55:31,640 Speaker 4: in the Brazilian context, and this is something that Garcia 2259 01:55:31,720 --> 01:55:34,200 Speaker 4: le Nara has talked about too, which is that, well, 2260 01:55:34,200 --> 01:55:36,120 Speaker 4: he doesn't say it in these words because he's a 2261 01:55:36,160 --> 01:55:39,760 Speaker 4: coward and a capitalist, but social democracy produces its own 2262 01:55:39,800 --> 01:55:42,280 Speaker 4: grave diggers by creating a middle class that despises them 2263 01:55:42,320 --> 01:55:45,760 Speaker 4: and then eventually destroys everything the social Democrats thought to create. 2264 01:55:46,320 --> 01:55:50,120 Speaker 4: And that this is very possible that what we are 2265 01:55:50,160 --> 01:55:54,880 Speaker 4: in right now is the opening stages of this entire 2266 01:55:55,040 --> 01:55:59,640 Speaker 4: political project coming apart. Yeah, I fucking hope it doesn't, 2267 01:55:59,720 --> 01:56:02,400 Speaker 4: and I hope that you know, but again, like, the only, 2268 01:56:02,440 --> 01:56:05,920 Speaker 4: the only actual way to resolve the inherent sort of 2269 01:56:06,000 --> 01:56:08,800 Speaker 4: political and social contradictions of attempting to have a sort 2270 01:56:08,800 --> 01:56:12,000 Speaker 4: of left wing socialist political base and a capitalist government 2271 01:56:12,080 --> 01:56:15,120 Speaker 4: is to eliminate the capitalist state. Yeah, So either either 2272 01:56:15,160 --> 01:56:16,640 Speaker 4: you do that or you get another one of these 2273 01:56:16,680 --> 01:56:17,600 Speaker 4: shitty fucking cues. 2274 01:56:18,080 --> 01:56:20,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're just constantly vulnerable to this ship, right, like 2275 01:56:20,600 --> 01:56:23,640 Speaker 3: at any point, Yeah, yeah, you're creating the conditions which a. 2276 01:56:23,560 --> 01:56:26,240 Speaker 4: Wealthy and I mean, and we've we've we've already seen 2277 01:56:26,480 --> 01:56:28,480 Speaker 4: the coup that's capable of knocking them out of power, 2278 01:56:28,560 --> 01:56:30,520 Speaker 4: right it's the cup that actually has sort of a mass, 2279 01:56:30,560 --> 01:56:32,000 Speaker 4: like a mass backing from the right. 2280 01:56:32,520 --> 01:56:35,320 Speaker 3: And this was not that cue. This was this was 2281 01:56:35,360 --> 01:56:37,960 Speaker 3: this was the comedian's coup. This was the joker coup, 2282 01:56:38,040 --> 01:56:44,520 Speaker 3: This was the this is the worst coup. Yeah, but 2283 01:56:45,480 --> 01:56:47,560 Speaker 3: you know, the next one, the next one might not 2284 01:56:47,600 --> 01:56:50,720 Speaker 3: be yes, and that's quite serious. 2285 01:56:51,400 --> 01:56:51,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. 2286 01:56:51,720 --> 01:56:54,800 Speaker 4: So until then, hopefully, hopefully we don't reach there. But 2287 01:56:54,880 --> 01:56:58,440 Speaker 4: until this has been naked happened here. Yeah, you two 2288 01:56:58,640 --> 01:57:03,280 Speaker 4: can overturn a coup by yelling, not even particularly menacing, 2289 01:57:03,320 --> 01:57:04,280 Speaker 4: at a bunch your troops. 2290 01:57:06,320 --> 01:57:09,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, practice practice at home in case you ever need 2291 01:57:09,720 --> 01:57:10,040 Speaker 3: to do it. 2292 01:57:13,120 --> 01:57:16,320 Speaker 1: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 2293 01:57:16,360 --> 01:57:18,280 Speaker 1: from now until the heat death of the Universe. 2294 01:57:18,880 --> 01:57:21,360 Speaker 5: It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 2295 01:57:21,440 --> 01:57:24,120 Speaker 5: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 2296 01:57:24,160 --> 01:57:27,280 Speaker 5: coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 2297 01:57:27,280 --> 01:57:30,480 Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 2298 01:57:30,480 --> 01:57:33,200 Speaker 5: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at 2299 01:57:33,240 --> 01:57:36,480 Speaker 5: coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.