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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What does an aspiring lawyer

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Speaker 1: up and coming an adoring girlfriend and a beauty contestant

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Speaker 1: having common murder? Is a short answer? Crime Stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Don't killing nine one one, ma'am I have

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Speaker 1: I haven't. I killed my boyfriend and self A furs

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Speaker 1: don't Where are you up? I'm not well, I'm not

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Speaker 1: a lad. I wouldn't hit I'm fucking fur one O

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Speaker 1: seven seconds and twelve Middle Lane? Are you in a house?

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Speaker 1: In apartment? There? Tue apartment? Its apartment's weekend? Is it meadow?

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Speaker 1: Anything else? Mead ow of you or something? No? Lane?

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Speaker 1: Me am my, Okay, okay, okay, tell me again. Tell

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Speaker 1: me again what unit you're in. It's not showing in

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Speaker 1: my computers. It's okay. You're at twelve Middle Lane. You

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Speaker 1: did number ten? Okay? Hold on, hold on? What did

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Speaker 1: you heal him with? Going alone? The house? You can

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Speaker 1: tell me where the gun is right now? My gun

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Speaker 1: isn't the house. We're at the man, Tell me when

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Speaker 1: it's at I laid it on the book at home.

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Speaker 1: We're at Lane, on the shelf on the books. Help,

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Speaker 1: it's where are you? I don't say any else. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know I can Harley hold back there. I would

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Speaker 1: just play just that one minute and seven seconds over

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Speaker 1: and over and over for the jury, and I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you why she's already setting up a defense. I shot

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Speaker 1: my boyfriend and self defense. Who says that? Who says

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Speaker 1: that when you're quote ten feet from the dead body,

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Speaker 1: Not Ryan Posting, not my boyfriend, not my lover, the

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Speaker 1: light of my life, he is now suddenly quote the

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Speaker 1: dead body. She knows the address, she knows the location,

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Speaker 1: she knows the zip code. This lady A is setting

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Speaker 1: up a defense, giving way too much information for the

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Speaker 1: defense taste, and showing she had already disassociated from the boyfriends.

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Speaker 1: She's shot dead and she is by far from insane.

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Speaker 1: If she's crazy, she's crazy like a Fox. Again, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation in

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Speaker 1: series XM one eleven. Let me introduce you an all

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Speaker 1: star panel. First of all, you know her well, Francie Hakes,

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Speaker 1: former federal prosecutor, and get this senior producer on Fox's

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Speaker 1: America's Most Wanted Not only That podcast, Best Case, Worst

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Speaker 1: Case Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us from the

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Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction. Boy, do we need a shrink? Death Investigator,

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Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet.

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Speaker 1: But first to Emmy Award winning investigative reporter Christie Missourich,

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Speaker 1: who's a voice? Am I hearing? Well? You're hearing the

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Speaker 1: voice of sheen of Hubers, who sounds very distraught after

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Speaker 1: opening fire on her boyfriend Ryan Misti, Missouri, I know

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Speaker 1: that you're at the Emmy Award winning investigative reporter, but

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Speaker 1: let me enjoy the moment. The one time I've ever

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Speaker 1: gotten to correct you. She wasn't upset until she got

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Speaker 1: through her first script. Then I heard a little that

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Speaker 1: was about correct. Okay, it's perfectly halfway through. Then there

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Speaker 1: was a little cry, a little peep squeal of just

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Speaker 1: being distraught. Guys, how did the whole thing get started?

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Speaker 1: You're hearing the nine one one call, But let's back

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Speaker 1: it up rewind. Listen to our friends at crime Online.

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Speaker 1: Ryan Posting, a twenty eight year old Ohio attorney, meets SHANEO.

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Speaker 1: Hubers on Facebook. The nineteen year old was friends with

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Speaker 1: post and step cousin Charissa Carlyle. The pair hit it

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Speaker 1: off and began dating Hubers is studying psychology at the

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Speaker 1: University of Kentucky in Lexington. She graduates Clmloudy, pursuing a

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Speaker 1: master's degree in school counseling. They date for about eighteen months,

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Speaker 1: but the relationship is anything but smooth. The couple reportedly

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Speaker 1: break up several times. The whole breakup to makeup, Jackie

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Speaker 1: here in the studio was pointing out that she learned

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Speaker 1: something and will observe something in that nine one one call.

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Speaker 1: In the first couple of seconds, she says, a loaded gun.

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Speaker 1: I shine with a loaded gun? How does she knows

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Speaker 1: totally loaded? Loaded means all the bullets from the cylinders.

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Speaker 1: I think, how does she know? Unless she checked it

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Speaker 1: or loaded it herself. But of course I'm putting the

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Speaker 1: cart before the horse. Let's take a listen to more

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Speaker 1: about the relationship. Unsatisfied in his relationship with Huber's posting,

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Speaker 1: tells a cousin that he plans for a first date

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Speaker 1: with another woman, miss Ohio, USA, Audrey Bolt. The pair

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Speaker 1: connected on Facebook and had been corresponding for some time.

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Speaker 1: Bolt says she found posting smart and funny based on

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Speaker 1: her Facebook interactions with him. They begin direct messaging plans

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Speaker 1: to meet at a Milford, Ohio bar for drinks and

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Speaker 1: maybe to play pool. So that's where the beauty queens

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Speaker 1: comes into this scenario, Miss Ohio USA Audrey Bolt, who

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Speaker 1: has advised that she wants it very clear she was

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Speaker 1: not the dead victims a girlfriend. They were meeting up

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Speaker 1: for a first date. Now that's certainly coincidental, is it

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Speaker 1: not to you? Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics. I know

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Speaker 1: you're all about fingerprints and hair fibers and autopsy reports,

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Speaker 1: but I still like the good old hunch, the deduction,

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Speaker 1: the using the gray cells. You want to tell me

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Speaker 1: it's a coinkie dink that he's got his first date

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Speaker 1: with Miss Ohio and then suddenly she shoots him dead.

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Speaker 1: Hill hath no fury. Uh. Yeah, you never get time

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Speaker 1: to saying that. I gotta tell you. I gotta tell you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're asking for trouble, man, You're darn Rice. It'll make me, man,

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Speaker 1: give me an answer. Yeah. Hey, Look, it stands to

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Speaker 1: reason that if you're involved with somebody else and you've

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Speaker 1: had a volatile relationship, they're already traumatized over the scene.

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Speaker 1: You're saying you want to break it off. And then

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Speaker 1: not only do you just go out and date somebody,

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Speaker 1: You're gonna go out and you're gonna date a Miss

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Speaker 1: America contestant. Yeah, isn't it Miss Usa? Oh? I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: Ohio goes into that. Miss Ohio goes into Miss USA

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Speaker 1: as opposed to Miss There's a very subtle but important distinction. Okay,

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Speaker 1: and again, it's not a beauty pageant, it's a scholarship.

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Speaker 1: It's a scholarship. Okay, did any of you people see

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Speaker 1: Sandra Bullock and Miss Congeniality for Pete's sake? Okay, back

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Speaker 1: to you, go ahead, Hey, yeah, and so yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is gonna this is listen. Most you know, Nancy, you

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Speaker 1: and I've worked together a long time. Most of the

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Speaker 1: cases that we involved that are very very violent. They're

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Speaker 1: not some stranger just coming at you out of a

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Speaker 1: dark alley, are they. Most of these things have come

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Speaker 1: some kind of domestic connection many times, particularly those that

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Speaker 1: are just loaded with a lot of violence, which in

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Speaker 1: this particular case, it was you have passion that's involved

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Speaker 1: in this. You have a lot of anger, and boy

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Speaker 1: did she take it out on him. This woman is

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Speaker 1: an all new meaning to snakes. In her head. But

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Speaker 1: since I didn't get the answer I was looking for,

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Speaker 1: or really any answer from Joseph Scott Morgan, let me

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Speaker 1: go to you, Francy Haigs, former federal prosecutor. You know

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Speaker 1: your way around the courtroom. I always say there is

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Speaker 1: no coincidence in criminal law. It's a very few and

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Speaker 1: far between. You know what this tells me? She had

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Speaker 1: already broken into his emails, his messaging, possibly his texts.

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Speaker 1: Maybe she was reading them when he was not by

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Speaker 1: his phone. But she knew, I guarantee you she knew

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Speaker 1: he had a date with miss Ohio that night Prime

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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, I'm talking about Shanahbers, then

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Speaker 1: twenty one years old and her victim, an up and

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Speaker 1: coming lawyer already with a good reputation. Do you think

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Speaker 1: it's a coincidence, Francy Hayes, He's trying to get ready

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Speaker 1: to go out on this date and up comes Shanahbers.

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Speaker 1: Of course not, you know, Nancy. On America's Most Wanted,

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Speaker 1: which we both covered, there was a case where the

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Speaker 1: girlfriend who killed her boyfriend had cloned his phone so

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Speaker 1: that she could intercept and even low down, slow down, Missy,

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Speaker 1: you got to say that very slowly. For you know,

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Speaker 1: I've just got a j D. I didn't get my

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Speaker 1: master's at MT. So explain to me and to everybody

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Speaker 1: listening what it means to actually clone someone's phone. And

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Speaker 1: let's just say that takes a lot of gumption to

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Speaker 1: go that far to clone of I've told you this

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Speaker 1: owner times, Francie. I try to read my husband's email

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Speaker 1: one time, and it was so boring my eyes were blating.

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Speaker 1: It was terrible. Never again, I found out nothing. There

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Speaker 1: was nothing to find out, so I haven't wasted my

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Speaker 1: time doing that again. If you've got hey tip, if

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Speaker 1: you've got a clone your boyfriend or girlfriend's phone, you

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Speaker 1: need to break up immediately and date somebody else or

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Speaker 1: go into therapy. Everybody listening, how do you clone a phone?

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Speaker 1: This is great, simple, Nancy. All you have to do

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Speaker 1: is go to the internet and get instructions. There are

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Speaker 1: programs out there that allow you as long as you

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Speaker 1: have access to the boyfriend or girlfriend's device. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to I don't want to give them programs away,

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Speaker 1: but it's really easy to find with a quick five

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Speaker 1: minute search on the internet, where you can assign that

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Speaker 1: phone to your own as if it is your own,

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Speaker 1: you can initial eight text messages, you can read the

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Speaker 1: text messages that are coming and going from your significant

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Speaker 1: other's phone. And we covered a case like that on

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Speaker 1: America's Most Wanted. So it wouldn't shock me to know

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Speaker 1: that Shana had done the same thing or just gotten

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Speaker 1: his phone in the million time she was in his

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Speaker 1: apartment and wouldn't leave and he would go into a

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Speaker 1: different room. I wouldn't be at all surprised if she

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Speaker 1: was monitoring his social media for example, how hard would

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Speaker 1: it be to get his Facebook password and see that

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Speaker 1: he's communicating with direct messages to miss Ohio, USA. So

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Speaker 1: that would not surprise me to learn at all. And

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Speaker 1: as I say my book, don't be a victim, please

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Speaker 1: beef up your passwords, because it was probably she hadn't

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Speaker 1: a fish in a barrel for this woman who was

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Speaker 1: dead set on spying on her boyfriend, Ryan Post, an

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Speaker 1: up and coming a lawyer. A probably used his dB

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Speaker 1: or his social or his rest or some connect concoction

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Speaker 1: of the two to be maybe his bar ID number

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Speaker 1: to create a password. And he probably used the same

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Speaker 1: password on every device and on every social media site.

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Speaker 1: But I guarantee you again, let's use our noggins for

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Speaker 1: a moment that she was spying on him and it

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Speaker 1: hacked into his accounts. This is why she hadn't been

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Speaker 1: to his home until the time of the shooting that

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Speaker 1: day that we know of, So he getting ready for

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Speaker 1: a date that night. I don't think she went over

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Speaker 1: there with any other intention. Much like Jody Arius literally

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Speaker 1: driving across the desert to convince her boyfriend Travis Alexander

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Speaker 1: not to go on a trip with another woman, but

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Speaker 1: to take her instead, I think she went there with

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Speaker 1: the intent to talk him out of going on his

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Speaker 1: date literally with the beauty queen. Okay, now you know

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Speaker 1: the background. Take a listen to more of that very

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Speaker 1: telling nine one one call. Okay, are you sure that

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Speaker 1: he is said? That done? Okay? And how long ago

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Speaker 1: did you shoot him? I don't know that, not even

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Speaker 1: that long. It was like an U fifteen minutes ago.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, what's your name? My name is Saana,

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Speaker 1: I'm itself, I'm sorry, what is it again? Tell me

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Speaker 1: straight now, Sana Michelle Berth you birthber ab r asked Ubers. Okay,

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Speaker 1: what's what's your name? Against Shane or Sana Shane. I

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Speaker 1: think Shane. All right, Shane, I'm just having a our

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Speaker 1: time here you okay, Sorry, No, you're gonna nail on

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Speaker 1: one listener. You're gonna stay on the line with me, okay,

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Speaker 1: because this is what we're gonna do. The officers film

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Speaker 1: want me to stay on the line with you. So

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Speaker 1: when you getting when they get there, I gonna want

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Speaker 1: to know what that gun is, and we want you

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Speaker 1: to get out safely too, Okay, Okay. I heard a

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Speaker 1: little trill in her voice something like that when she

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Speaker 1: was trying to tune up with tears again. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan. I know that you're a death investigator

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Speaker 1: and you've been to literally thousands of homicide scenes. But

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Speaker 1: have you ever seen The Wizard of Oz where they

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Speaker 1: call in the coroner. Did you hear her say he's

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Speaker 1: completely dead and he's most completely dad, Remember how the

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Speaker 1: coroner reads off, how the wicked Oh and she's what

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Speaker 1: my point is, she's emphatic, but she's not distraught. Oh

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Speaker 1: he's dead, He's completely dead. I would not expect that

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Speaker 1: of a girlfriend, that it just shot someone she loves,

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Speaker 1: even if it's in self defense, even if it's an accident,

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Speaker 1: you would expect emotion, not oh, he's completely dead, just

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Speaker 1: the way she said that. Yeah, And you know, when

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Speaker 1: something like this happened, you all of the senses are aroused.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's it's and you're acutely aware. She's standing

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Speaker 1: there in this smoke, Nancy that that has. You know,

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Speaker 1: she's inhalated this gun smoke. She's in there, and she

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Speaker 1: may have heard sounds that he was making as she

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Speaker 1: shot him, as he tumbled to the floor, the sound itself,

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Speaker 1: the gunshots are still ringing in her ears. But yet,

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Speaker 1: you know, the thing about it is, it's not like

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Speaker 1: she experiences this every day. It's almost like she's prepared

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Speaker 1: for it. And you don't hear the same level of

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Speaker 1: distress and her voice that you would. You know, I've

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Speaker 1: been on scenes and I've talked to people that have

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Speaker 1: shot other individuals, and there sometimes they lapse into into

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Speaker 1: moments of what we refer to is kind of catatonia,

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Speaker 1: where they're just blanked out and they're staring off into

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Speaker 1: the distance because it's such a shocking event. If I

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Speaker 1: was interviewing her, I have a lot of questions because

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Speaker 1: she is not rattled to her core. She has very

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Speaker 1: specific details about all of this, and it rises and

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Speaker 1: falls and to you, doctor Angela Arnold, I got a

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Speaker 1: series of questions for you. But I know that people

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Speaker 1: can in fact disassociate with what's happening and have a

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Speaker 1: period of time that they really cannot remember that that's real.

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Speaker 1: It does happen. But doctor Angela Arnold, psychiatrists joining us

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Speaker 1: out of Atlanta, I want you to take a listen

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Speaker 1: to more of this than I one call and tell

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Speaker 1: me what you hear. Listen, Okay, I'm gonna reson, ma'am.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what they'll do. We're gonna send cinema out.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna sound mine with you, Okay, I mean I'm

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Speaker 1: not her real just what will What happened exactly? What

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Speaker 1: happened for men to turn me out of the house

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Speaker 1: and I came imaging to get my brain and he

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Speaker 1: was fighting finally and he raised down and grabbed the

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Speaker 1: god and I've robbed up his hands. Okay, all right,

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Speaker 1: do you need an ambulance? Have you been injured? I'm

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Speaker 1: not injured him. I was throwed into the side of

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Speaker 1: the cou okay. And how old is he? He's many

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Speaker 1: nine will be thirty. He would have been thirty on

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Speaker 1: December thirty. All right, what's the same Bryan Carter posted

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Speaker 1: He's gonna turn hand Cincinnati. Okay. You had a history

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Speaker 1: of domestic violence with him, Yeah, okay? And is it

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Speaker 1: your gun? Now? This is his gun? He keeps floating

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Speaker 1: guns in the house. Time Stories with Nancy Grace. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Angela Arnold Sakiah is joining us out of Atlanta. I

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Speaker 1: heard so many things, uh points that would hammer to

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Speaker 1: the jury. He was beating me. But I came back

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Speaker 1: in the house. She's not injured, not injured at all.

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Speaker 1: I've looked at her booking photos and not injured at all.

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Speaker 1: But why would you go back into the home if

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Speaker 1: your attacker is in the home? And Nancy, don't you

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Speaker 1: think the nine one one operator did an amazing job? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I did. Nine one one operator was on it wasn't she? Oh? Man?

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Speaker 1: If you think she's on a door and guns in

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Speaker 1: the house, and I mean everything was so clear about

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Speaker 1: what she said. Oh, I landed on the couch. That's

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Speaker 1: why I wasn't hurt when he was beating me, because

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Speaker 1: I landed on the couch. Well, she goes into that explanation. Listen,

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Speaker 1: so he's not land you into the couch, but you

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Speaker 1: don't have any injuries. I don't have any injuries. I

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Speaker 1: was very frightened. He taking a lot bigger than me.

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Speaker 1: Here three two hundred rounds on five eight and beauty,

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Speaker 1: and he's ticked me up and draring me out of

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Speaker 1: the house. And I said, let me get my things

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Speaker 1: at least if we're going to break up, and and

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Speaker 1: he wouldn't let me get my things. And when I

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Speaker 1: reached around and try to get my things, I can

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Speaker 1: hear myself actually in the background. Now it's just a phone,

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Speaker 1: so it's got a delay. And he he pushed me

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Speaker 1: down from from the door all the way to the

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Speaker 1: couchil when they come here to pay far letters. He

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Speaker 1: threw me across the room and I was very startled.

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Speaker 1: I was laying on the floor, okay, all right, And

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Speaker 1: I told him and now we hear a motivation emerging.

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Speaker 1: Did you hear the words break up? Let's go to

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Speaker 1: our cut six? I don't know you. You shot him

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Speaker 1: a couple more times after that? Yeah? How many times

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Speaker 1: did you shoot him total? I don't know, okay, because

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Speaker 1: he was twitching and he knew he's gonna die, so

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Speaker 1: he shot him again, and not because he really twitching him.

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Speaker 1: So you shot him instead of calling nine one one?

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Speaker 1: What so instead of calling nine one one, she continues

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Speaker 1: to shoot him. Well, there's more listen, And I just

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Speaker 1: picked up the gun and in the middle of him

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Speaker 1: doing something with his arm or saying something crazy, shot him.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, oh my god, what have I died?

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Speaker 1: You know? And he was laying with his face on

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Speaker 1: the table like twitching, and so I knew he was

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Speaker 1: gonna die, a very slow and painful die. I knew

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Speaker 1: he was already dead, it would be in the next

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Speaker 1: twenty seconds, the next two minutes. And then he said

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Speaker 1: he dead, and he was in a lot of pain,

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Speaker 1: his twitch and he was moaning, but he was ultimately dead,

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Speaker 1: and so I shought him enough time to kill him

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Speaker 1: so that he wouldn't suffer. Okay, Francy Haigs form a

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Speaker 1: federal prosecutor, jump in, Yes, Nancy, I killed him so

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Speaker 1: he wouldn't suffer. I killed him because I thought he

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Speaker 1: was coming at me. I killed him because I was

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Speaker 1: terrified of him. I killed him because he was twitching.

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Speaker 1: I killed him because I didn't want him to suffer.

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Speaker 1: But he was going to die a slow and painful death.

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Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, I knew we only had

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Speaker 1: about twenty seconds to go. She's all over the place.

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Speaker 1: This is so inconsistent. Within about a minute and a half, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: that a prosecutor is going to have a field day

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Speaker 1: with this case. And I bet you, like me, would

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Speaker 1: love to be in the courtroom giving closing arguments on

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Speaker 1: this one. Man. You're not kidding, doctor Angela Arnold. Listen

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Speaker 1: to this at that point, which was a few more time,

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Speaker 1: and I shot him. I think I shot him twice.

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Speaker 1: Thought he was completely dead. He was laying there still,

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Speaker 1: twasn't a thing annoyed him. And I did him in

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Speaker 1: the head. I probably should have left it there, but

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Speaker 1: I who could die or had a very form of faith,

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Speaker 1: and you were concerned, and I knew, oh no, he

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Speaker 1: would have died. He would already died. He was already

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Speaker 1: you would die. But I just walked around the table

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Speaker 1: and shot him where I knew he would die immediately.

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Speaker 1: In fact, because obsession was done killed him. You know,

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Speaker 1: I would have never I'm so, I would never touched

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Speaker 1: the gun in my life. I mean, occasionally in this

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Speaker 1: line of business. I have been speechlessen that happened to

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Speaker 1: be what I've recovered. Don't worry, Christie Missourich reporting on

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Speaker 1: the case. Did you hear that? Oh? I did? That

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Speaker 1: he would have a very different face because she shot

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Speaker 1: him in the face, and so she shot him again.

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Speaker 1: Then she goes into her political political preferences. Why and Christie, again,

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Speaker 1: we were aghast everybody that was covering this story in

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Speaker 1: Cincinnati when this was unfolding, because her big, not only

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Speaker 1: political platform was discussed. But not to go into too

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Speaker 1: many details. She also started breading the victim, saying, you

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Speaker 1: just don't understand why to shoot him so many times

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Speaker 1: because he was so vain and he just wouldn't die.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it true Christie Missouri that at one point she said,

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Speaker 1: I gave him the nose job he always wanted. That

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Speaker 1: is absolutely correct. Okay. And with that, doctor Angela Arnold,

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Speaker 1: you're the psychiatrist, I let your way in on that.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, Nancy, I know it's just it's it's

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Speaker 1: sort of breathtaking, isn't it. I wouldn't describe it like that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I say breathtaking on when you look down

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Speaker 1: on the taking my breath away. I mean, who thinks

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Speaker 1: like this? Right, I'm still back on the part where

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Speaker 1: she kept shooting him. If she was so scared of him,

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Speaker 1: like you said, just get out of there, If she's

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Speaker 1: such a gun hater, then why did she keep shooting

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Speaker 1: the guy? Well, didn't you hear quote? His obsession with

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Speaker 1: guns killed him, not me. Oh yeah again, hello, psychopath,

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Speaker 1: nothing is her fault. Okay, Okay, you know something about you,

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Speaker 1: doctor Angie. You like to throw me on the term psychopath,

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Speaker 1: but not everybody went to medical school. So could you

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Speaker 1: plain what that is and why you're using the term

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Speaker 1: with Shana Heber's psychopath is someone First of all, it's

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Speaker 1: like a It's like a heavier form of narcissistic personality

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Speaker 1: disorder they have. They have no remorse for things they don't.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's amazing that you explain one Latin term

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Speaker 1: with another Latin term. Okay, I'm sorry. Okay, she she

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Speaker 1: thinks about herself, she charms people, she lies, she manipulates.

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Speaker 1: There's a complete lack of social rules, and she prioritizes

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Speaker 1: her own self interests. And I have a feeling that

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Speaker 1: throughout this case that's what they're going to see. They're

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Speaker 1: going to see a prioritization by her of her own

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Speaker 1: self interest, which is why she starts to attack the

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Speaker 1: dead guy. I thought a psychopath was someone that could

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Speaker 1: not empathize with other people's face. No empathy. I was

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Speaker 1: just I was saying, I was talking about a lot

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Speaker 1: of other things that they have going on also. But

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Speaker 1: you are completely correct, Nancy. A psychopath has no empathy,

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Speaker 1: and they don't so therefore they don't see what they're doing,

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Speaker 1: do they. That is not she is not crazy crime

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Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about Shana Hubers

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Speaker 1: to you. Francy Haggs, former federal prosecutor now senior producer

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Speaker 1: on Fox's America's Most Wanted and podcast star Best Case,

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Speaker 1: Worst Case Podcast. Francy, once I hear saying, everything else

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Speaker 1: is like blah blah blah blah blah, because it's not

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Speaker 1: a defense. Either you did or you did not know

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Speaker 1: right from wrong at the time of the incident. That

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Speaker 1: is the quote old McNaughton rule, which came from Great Britain,

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Speaker 1: and we Americans brought that jurisprudence, that body of law

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Speaker 1: from Great Britain when we came here, and that is

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Speaker 1: still the test for insanity today. Now there are some

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Speaker 1: slight derivations, but generally being a psychopath, or being drunk,

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Speaker 1: or being high on drugs, or being narcissistic, none of

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Speaker 1: that rises to insanity as a defense under the law.

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Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, Nancy. In fact, you could be mentally

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Speaker 1: ill and still be legally responsible. And here, even if

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Speaker 1: she has in her retrials, even if she has medical experts,

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Speaker 1: get up and say she is insane or she was

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Speaker 1: insane at the time of the crime, the prosecution has

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Speaker 1: very strong arguments to combat that. In her own words

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Speaker 1: on the nine one one call, as we've already discussed

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Speaker 1: all those inconsistencies, that's not because someone is insane. That's

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Speaker 1: someone who's constantly changing her story trying to find the

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Speaker 1: one that will work to get her walked out of

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Speaker 1: the jail, and she never found it and she never

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Speaker 1: will find it. Same thing with Jodi Arius. You remember

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Speaker 1: how many defenses she threw out. First, I wasn't even there. Okay,

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Speaker 1: yes I was there, but it was self defense. Well

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Speaker 1: left out the one about a man and a woman

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Speaker 1: dressed as ninjas came in and killed him and let

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Speaker 1: me live. The defense is changed and changed and change, guys.

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Speaker 1: It just just nothing like giving the jury the nine

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Speaker 1: on one call in opening statement. If you haven't already

423
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: had it admitted into evidence correctly pre trial, then you

424
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: have to give a different opening statement, then lay the

425
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: foundation for the nine one one call, and then play

426
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: it pretty quickly for the jury because you really want

427
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: them to hear this. Listen, I don't know what your

428
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: typical parder no Mont made me see. He said you

429
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: just the helder way from context to me, I am

430
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: if I I the held really came out of me?

431
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: Cut through up. I haven't bad now, fish, I never

432
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: done a whole but I really hardly done so bad

433
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: about it that heart of me, do you know what

434
00:29:48,880 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: I mean? Like I'm partly like he dreaming, I don't

435
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: really want I guess this is a new defense quote.

436
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: I guess the heel billy came out of me. Okay.

437
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: She also says part of me doesn't feel bad about it. Well,

438
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: I just had to get to this part of her interrogation. Listen,

439
00:30:24,360 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: m oh, please stop it. I thought I wanted to

440
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: hear it, but then suddenly I don't. She's actually vocalizing

441
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: she's singing harmony and melody, which again shows she's not insane.

442
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: Chrissy Missurich helped me. This is just hours after she

443
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: guns down her boyfriend that broke up with her, that

444
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: she tried to get back with, that didn't want her back,

445
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: that she's shot dead. Help me, why is she singing

446
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: amazing grace? Well, because I think she's trying to pretend

447
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: that she's crazy, because moments after that she's mumbling to

448
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: herself in that video she says she can't believe she

449
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: actually did it, and she's so good at acting. This

450
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: tape went on for hours, Nancy, this wasn't a short interrogation,

451
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: and investigators left her inside by herself because they were

452
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: a guest watching what was going on from another room

453
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: and just let the parting continue again, Armisi Jodi Aris

454
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: remember her standing on her head and doing gymnastics and

455
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: humming in the police interrogation room. Guys, you know this

456
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: is like drinking from the fire hydrant. And I think

457
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: Francy Higgs and just Scott Morgan will agree with me.

458
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: An interrogation type tape like this again few and far between. Now,

459
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: embrace yourself. So many red flags. Take a listen to

460
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: our friend Tomygee to WCPO. In the eighteen months Shane

461
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: Hubers and Ryan Posting were together, there was an incredible

462
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: number of social media messages between them. Highen Heights Police

463
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: Chief Bill Burkenhauer gave jurors a staggering number on Monday.

464
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: Pretty much she can't count them. I would say it

465
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: was between fifteen one hundred thousand messages. So how many

466
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: came from Shane Hubers and how many did Ryan post?

467
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: An answer, the chief says it depended on the situation

468
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: that he was trying to break up or move on.

469
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: She would send him a hundred messages to his one response.

470
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: Many times he would just turn his phone off. When

471
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: it came to Facebook, Chief Burkenhauer testified that Hubers got

472
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: into postings page, blocked people, and send messages like this

473
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: ha ha. After you wrote on my pick, Ryan unliked

474
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: it BC because he realized that I liked it from

475
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: his computer while logged on as him, ha ha ha.

476
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: Then there were times that Hubers used a friend's phone

477
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: to send text messages, often using strong language. You're just

478
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: a horrible attorney, hah. You lost a client and didn't

479
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: contest Wow. Not easy, just stupid. Goodbye. Well, there's nothing

480
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: to hurt a lawyer like attacking their maneuvers in court.

481
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: But I think our cut fourteen that's his reporter Mike

482
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: Shell at Fox nineteen was one of the most disturbing

483
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: facts that we learned to listen today. Six of the

484
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: retrial saw the prosecution put forth three women who would

485
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: contact with Hubers while she was in the Campbell County

486
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: Detention Center waiting for her first trial to begin. Let's

487
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: just get this out of the way right away. Are

488
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: you a convicted felon, yes, Polly Niven says. Hubers described

489
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 1: what happened after she picked up Ryan Posting's gun from

490
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: the dining room table at his Highland Heights condo. She

491
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: asked Ryan, she said, what would you do if I

492
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 1: and pointed the gun at him? What did she say,

493
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 1: mister Posting did smirked at her? And what did she do?

494
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 1: At that point? Locked around the table and shot him.

495
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 1: Posting step sister left the courtroom in tears when she

496
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 1: heard what Hubers allegedly said about her family. She had

497
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: said that Ryan's family had a bunch of money and

498
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: that they can buy a new child. Behind bars, awaiting trial.

499
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: Shanea hubers kill a girlfriend says his family's got money,

500
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:57,720
Speaker 1: they can buy a new child. Okay, Jess got Morgan

501
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: the psychological psychiatric implications aside, isn't it true? There was

502
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:10,800
Speaker 1: no evidence whatsoever of any physical fight between the two. No,

503
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: there wasn't. And let me tell you this, I can

504
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 1: prove that her alibi, her story, whatever the hell you

505
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: want to call it, is complete, bs Nancy. When you

506
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: get into ballistics and firearms, one of the toughest shots

507
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 1: to make is what's referred to as a head shot.

508
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 1: If people at home will just think about the silhouettes

509
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: that they see, Folks that say gun ranges, if they've

510
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: ever seen pictures of it, it's a silhouette and you've

511
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: got a head, then you've got shoulders and a body.

512
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: And in defensive training, what they do is they teach

513
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 1: you to fire center masks. That means at the center

514
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: of the body. Okay, the biggest part of the body.

515
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: To score what's referred to as a headshot, particularly with

516
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 1: a handgun, is very, very difficult. It's a higher order

517
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: kind of thing. So what that tells me, miss, I'm

518
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 1: afraid of handgun and I don't even like handguns, Nancy.

519
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 1: From what I understand, she pumped six rounds into this guy, okay, six, one, two, three, four, five, six,

520
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: including the one where she says, well, I guess I

521
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: gave him the nose job you always wanted. You know

522
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: why she did, because she shot him center mass in

523
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: the face with a lead core projectile that probably destroyed

524
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 1: his face at that moment time. And then she continued

525
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 1: to pump other rounds into him after she had scored

526
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,399
Speaker 1: a deadly headshot. This is not something like if you're

527
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: falling backwards. Oh my god, I'm falling backwards and I'm

528
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: landing on the couch safely, and I'm just trying to

529
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: defend myself. Bs. You walked up on him, You planned it,

530
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: and you ambushed him. You shot this guy in the face,

531
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: and then once he was down, you continued to pump

532
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,439
Speaker 1: rounds into his lifeless body. You know, you have heard

533
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 1: us discussing her statements at a nine one one call,

534
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: much the way a jury would when they are having

535
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: jury deliberations. But the reality is this, this young man

536
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: fought his way through law school. He was an up

537
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: and coming star in the legal community, loved by all

538
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: most of all his family, and now they're the one

539
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: with the life sentence of life without their beloved son

540
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: and brother. Shana Hubers brought in hell Nancy Grace Crime Story,

541
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend