WEBVTT - Erika Alexander 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:06.960 I'm Sam Edis and I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to What's 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:09.559 Her Story? With Sam and Amy. This is a show 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:15.400 about the world's most remarkable women, their professional and personal journeys. Together, 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.200 we'll hear from gold medalists, best selling authors, and leaders 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:22.840 of the world's most iconic brands. Listen every Thursday or 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:27.880 join the conversation anytime on Instagram at What's Her Story Podcast. 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:33.640 Erica Alexander is an award winning actress, best known for 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:36.280 her roles as Pam Tucker on The Cosby Show and 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:40.400 Maxine Shaw on Living Single. She also stars in films 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:46.640 like the award winning Get Out. Most people who dream 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:51.199 of becoming an actress, you know, think of having to 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:55.720 go through many, many years of auditions before they get 0:00:55.760 --> 0:01:00.840 that first role. But your breakthrough came super asked, how 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:04.800 did that happen? I was attending an arts program, performing 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:08.160 arts program in Philadelphia in the Freedom Theater. It's called 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:11.000 New Freedom Theater. It was a six week program and 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:12.959 in the fifth week movie came to town, the merchant 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:16.480 Ivory Film, and they were looking for black girls and 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.400 Latina girls to auditions for the film, and so we 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:21.520 were all encouraged to do it, and so we did, 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:26.039 and after several auditions and you know, a few weeks 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.560 went by, they made their choice and I was the 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:30.720 lead in it. And it was a film called My 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:34.360 Little Girl, and I got um not only a chance 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:39.240 to you know, being a professional setting, but also get 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.000 a SAG card and gave me healthcare and things like that. 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:44.120 So there were other opportunities that were connected to it 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:47.119 that were really consequential for me. But it was just 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:49.680 a matter of sort of being picked in a big 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:53.560 open call, which is pretty unusual. And merchant Ivory is 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:57.280 kind of like the the holy Grail for actors. I mean, 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:01.160 that's no shabby first all man, you know what merchant 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:02.960 Tiree is, but most people don't because it doesn't even 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:06.640 exist anymore. But before Merrimax, it was considered a very 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:11.240 high toned production company, certainly coming out of England, and 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:13.840 they did a lot of work with Helen and Bonnet 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:18.520 Carter and and that type of thing. Very English, you know, 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:22.160 very polished. But this was unusual. It was a woman, 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:25.480 Connie Kaiserman, who was making her film debut. This was 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:29.320 her experience. She was a white young woman who went 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:33.760 to school in the sort of the higher toned area 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:38.080 of Philadelphia, and she did a summer program and she 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:41.000 was very influenced by this young woman she met in 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.079 it and I should say a girl and it was 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.600 called My Little Girl, and so this was her conversation 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:50.560 about her experience, and it was an opportunity for me, 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:53.040 but it was her story. What do you really remember 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:56.919 most about the first film you ever did being chosen 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:00.320 at all? I guess I remember more being um feeling 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.079 guilty because I had just joined the program and there 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:05.320 were girls who had gone to New Freedom Theater for 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.200 many years. So it was a summer program that I 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:10.640 was in, but it was on the year. It had 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:13.440 girls going all year around. So if you've ever gone 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:15.560 to ballet school or that type of thing, they might 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:18.040 have a special summer program, but there are girls who 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:22.680 are ballerinas who come all the time. And Genese Roderick 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.480 was the person I was up against when it came 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:27.679 down to it, and everyone kept saying, Oh, Genese is 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:29.560 gonna get it, Genese is gonna get it. And I 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.799 had no film or television or any sort of background 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:36.000 with acting that much except for that experience, and then 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.880 I ended up getting it, and Genese was from Philly 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:40.760 and I was from Arizona. So I felt like I 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:44.200 was an interloper, and I felt really guilty, and I 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:46.520 didn't know that that would be the case. I didn't 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:48.520 think that they picked me. So I remember that an 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.960 overwhelming sense of guilt. And then how soon after that 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:55.520 did you land on the Cosby Show? Many years went by, 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.880 It seems like many years I did. Then it was 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:02.560 about after school specials and there were mini series that 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:04.480 were being done. That was the age of the mini series. 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:07.520 So I did George Washington to Forging a Nation. I 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:10.600 played the slave owning with Martha Washington slave who I 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:13.640 found it later ran away, and George Washington pursued her 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:17.880 his whole time until he died. He was really limited 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.280 person in that way. And Um. Then I did a 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:23.599 tour around the world with the Royal Shakespeare Theater. We 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:25.719 did the movie in Paris. I had already done some 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.320 plays in the public with Joseph pat and that's where 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:32.279 Camille Cosby saw me. Camil Cosby is the best friend 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:35.320 of Gloria Foster, and I was at the Public Theater 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:40.159 playing um Joseph Papp's last play The Forbidden City by 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:44.760 Bill Gunn and apparently she went home and said to 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:48.000 Bill Cosby, her husband, You've got to see Gloria in 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.440 this this uh theater pieces off Broadway show which Gloria's 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:55.440 genius actors. She was the woman who was in the 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:58.440 Matrix who said, um light skinned woman who said to 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:01.400 Keanu Reeves, have a cookie, you'll feel writer's reign. She 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:03.080 was a light skinned woman. She didn't do a lot 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:06.480 of film work, but she was fantastic and didn't get 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:10.320 her opportunity. There was amazing theater actress. Apparently he's she 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.080 said to build got to see Gloria and this girl 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:15.880 I was the girl she was talking about. He never 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:18.159 saw the play. But I had been auditioning for the 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.360 Cosby Show for years because it was the only game 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:22.360 in town. If you were black. There weren't that many 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:24.400 shows for you to be on. If you're black young, 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:26.600 there were very few things you could be on. So 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:30.480 maybe Rosanne, maybe Cosby Show, a Law and Order that 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.200 was it, or an after school special. And so I 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:36.000 was brought in. I was called to his house. Could 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:38.720 you be to his house in an hour? And Cash 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:43.080 and director met me there and he created the growth 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:46.160 of cousin pan for me on the spot. But apparently 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:48.159 I was a gift for his wife. That's what I 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:53.279 was told. How has the legacy of Bill Cosby impacted 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:57.560 you to today? Yeah, you know. It was a fantastic opportunity. 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:00.359 I mean again, it was the only game in town. 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:02.360 You weren't going to be cast as an on Jennu 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:05.200 anywhere except maybe on stage, which was a typical place 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:07.520 where I was casting a GENUW. But if you were 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:10.640 young and I was in my team, still they didn't 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:15.080 place black females in roles that of oh' Juliet or 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:17.599 damnsel and distress or the object of desire, any of 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:19.200 those things. Scarlet your hands and or any of these 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:21.800 people now might be you had to wait to be 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.479 a foster child, as slave or prostitute. Those are my 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:27.880 first roles. But when I got on the Cosby Show, 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:32.120 that was the biggest you place you could be. And 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:34.120 for him to have created a role for me for 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:37.520 whatever reason, I was told by a stranger that I 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:39.320 was a gift and he knew he knew a lot 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.839 of details that only somebody very close to one of 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:45.400 them would know, So I I knew he knew he 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:47.640 was what he was talking about I didn't know at 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:52.920 the time that it was perhaps through Camille Cosby conjoining 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.200 him to go to the play, and then maybe as 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.159 some kind of again, I don't know what their relationship is. 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:02.960 Like he gave her, you know, he said, Okay, call 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:05.560 this young lady to my house and and and then 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:08.480 gave me a role. So that's a weird thing. Just 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:11.320 happens to be a byproduct of it. But it changed 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:15.080 my life because suddenly I was doing film and theater, 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:17.840 but I was on the big show in America in 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:22.280 the last road they created for the show. I grew 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:25.200 up in an era when the Cosby Show was like 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:27.960 it right, like I would look forward to Thursdays because 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:31.720 the Cosby Show is on. And even for me, it's 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:36.240 very hard to sort of reconcile what I thought of 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:40.320 as such a highlight, a joyous childhood memory with who 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:43.680 built Cosby turned out to be? How has that been 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:47.520 for you? Who was so much more deeply affected by it. 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:51.200 It's unfortunate that he wasn't who we all thought he was. 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:54.280 There's almost nothing more to say. If you grew up 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:57.840 with somebody and they turn out to be, uh, you know, 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:03.679 have very complicated history with women, and that's being kind. 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:09.120 And then also the accusations are so profound, you know, 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.520 it's like you wonder who you were working with. Here's 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:16.240 what I can say about that. I'm preacher's daughter, and 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:19.520 I have always lived in a world of contradictions, because 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:23.160 who shows up at churches but sinners and people who 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.800 are not always what they seem, including pastors and teachers 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:29.160 and all sorts of other people. So he's not unlike 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:33.040 anybody who's in this human condition, who may present a 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:38.559 false face and then once it's exposed, everyone's a little destroyed. Um, 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:42.800 he more than most people, had influence of great majority 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:44.840 of the world because of what he stood for with 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:49.839 children and his commitment to education and HBC used what 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.920 he did for black people. It's extraordinary. So I come 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:56.240 to reckon it with it the way everyone else does, 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:00.520 except that I never thought that anybody was perfect, and 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:04.640 there's a lot of people who really put people on pedestals. Obviously, 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:07.200 this is more than just talking about a simple flaw 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:11.000 or fault. This is talking about assault, This is talking 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:15.360 about rape. This is talking about using your power to 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:20.080 put people who are not in the position that you're 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:23.640 in in a place that not only destroys their self esteem, 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:26.680 but can affect their lives for a very long time. 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.320 So I think that we talk a lot about Bill 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:32.360 Cosby because there's been a lot of men with those 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:37.760 powers that have been allowed to prosper and been a 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:41.600 propped up by corporations who are making money off of them, 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:45.760 and um, we should all endeavor to make sure that 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.240 they can't prosper. More importantly, that they can be if 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.800 they've done these things, held accountable because of that contradiction. 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:56.280 Is there any part of you that that roots for 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.080 him and all of this? What I do is I 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:03.640 root for the healing of spirit obviously that come from 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:06.280 a very dark spot. And so I wouldn't be my 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:08.800 father's daughter if I said here and were rooted for 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:12.559 his demise. I couldn't be a black person in America 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:17.160 and not have compassion for our position because we were 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:21.560 raped and assaulted for hundreds of years on this land 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:26.440 with impunity, and what did it teach us to hurt others? 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.280 I don't know his entire background. What I do know 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:31.800 is that he was in a position of learning. He 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.920 was a he was a doctor, he had been exalted, 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:37.400 and there was a lot of ways he could have 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.400 gotten help, But I think that that type of thing 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:42.320 acting on you, you don't get to help you need 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:44.520 because you don't know you're sick. I don't know what 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:47.360 it is. I'm not even qualified to talk about it. 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:50.920 All I know is he gave me a job, he 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:54.280 gave me an opportunity, and he was one of the 0:10:54.280 --> 0:11:00.640 most profoundly transformational characters in American history, not black people 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:05.240 in American history. And how can you root for anything 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:09.520 except for healing all over? It seems to like throughout 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:11.760 at least the early years of your career. And I'm 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:15.680 curious that this is still today. You have been placed 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:18.480 in an arena of you are a black actress or 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.720 you are a black creator, and that only certain roles 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:25.960 are available. Is that still? Is that still the industry? Yes, 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:30.400 it is, it's still the industry. It's hard to talk 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.800 about it without seeing that you're downing things. But colorism 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:37.439 is real, and so if you're blond and you're blue eyed, 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:40.920 and you're a woman, they're more likely to be seen 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.920 as something that's again protected and more the ideal of 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:49.160 what a true American woman is. And then it falls off. 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:52.040 At that point you know, dark haired white women, you 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:56.319 know less. So then you go to brown skinned Latina, 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.680 Middle Eastern all that. Then you go to light skinned 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:03.560 black women, you know, and then you go to dark 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:07.120 skinned women like me and Biola and Octavia Spencer and 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.080 those types of things. And if you look at what 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.080 the types of roles we typically get to play, and 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:15.280 I'm not talking about now, there's a little bit more, 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:19.640 much more variety, but overall, it is the help. It 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:25.280 is the the nurturer, the caregiver, the nanny. This that 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:27.760 because those are positions of white people are used to 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:31.840 seeing us in UM. I think that with that power, 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:33.720 I think white women haven't done as much as they 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:37.560 needed to do to create opportunities for characters to do that. 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.360 Thank God for shan To Rhymes she did UM. Up 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:43.839 until that point, Diane Carroll was the only black woman 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:47.400 on network TV whoever had a show UM, And that 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.360 to me is unacceptable. There have been white women in 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.040 positions who could have created that. But then again, I 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.120 imagine they might have and they ran into the big 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.400 daddy at the door at the studio that said, no, 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:03.120 So have we been in positions to do better? Perhaps 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:06.760 have we had enough power to push through maybe not. 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:09.559 I mean I try to look at the whole piece. 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:13.280 There's stomach issues, there's the will, there are people who 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.319 have the will but not the way. And then more importantly, 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:20.480 there's how comfortable do we feel? As Violet Davis said 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:22.640 in some clip I saw all the other day with 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.320 her doing E Pray Love, and we need to start 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:30.520 seeing them essential sexual, powerful people but also complicated, three dimensional. 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.400 The way that we're talking about Cosby is the way 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:37.240 we should talk about all men and characters. It seems 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:42.360 optically when you read and you see the data like 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:44.800 the last couple of years have been sort of a 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:49.840 racial reckoning in America, where there are more quotas and 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:54.480 more attention and more interest in diversifying what we see 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.760 on the screen, whether it's TV or film. Has that 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:01.600 not hit Hollywood? In reality? That more just optics or 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:05.320 do you feel the change? There's definite change, except the 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.400 optics make it look like there's more change than there is. 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.079 If you ask the people who do the data studies 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:14.760 that you see l A, they say everything's expanded. All 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:18.240 sorts of opportunities have expanded. There's more channels, they're more um, 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:23.480 you know, platforms for people to have um content. But 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:26.960 then they do the data and the percentage still is 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:30.560 almost the same. So I think that people are seeing 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:34.160 more because there's more ways into your consciousness, but it 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.720 doesn't necessarily mean that it's having impact or it's as 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:40.720 much as we think. So I don't want to say 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:44.040 that there's not real movement there. The almost certainly is. 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:47.200 And people see one black Panther movie and say, oh, look, 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.000 Marvel did a black Panther movie. Um, and let's give 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:53.160 props to the great Jack Kim Kirby and and stand 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:57.320 leave for creating black hero within the Marvel universe. And 0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:59.840 that's cool, But look at how many other Marvel movies 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.400 there are with White Year Roads. I mean, you know 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:06.360 that's one and that took how many years, like Forever, 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.600 and then, um, people might say, well what about women 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:11.080 as it? Well, you've got one of the women, you've 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.440 got you know, these types of different things. It's not 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:15.840 enough going on for women. There's nothing going on for 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:19.400 disabled people. Well maybe okay, we had their devil who's blind, 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.040 you know, that type of thing. And then what do 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:25.560 we do for agism? You know, let's talk about that. 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:30.640 I mean, there's so many marginalized people and indigenous almost 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:33.720 they're not even seen. The Asians are stepping up and 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:36.760 putting a lot of their efforts inside of You see 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:40.760 crazy rich Aasans, You see you know Shang Chai chi 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:46.400 going on. It's a powerful transition happening right now. In 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:50.160 twenty eighteen, there were more children of color being born 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:52.920 in America than white children. Is certainly gonna be a 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:56.880 rebrowning of America and the world, which is a majority 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:01.640 of color. World were now with its own weapons and 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:05.760 its own entertainment take center state, So you know happen 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:09.040 well right now as we're seeing it, it's probably not 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:12.520 as profound as people think. And now a quick break. 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.320 Are you a woman owned business looking for a new 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:18.280 sales channel. I'm so excited to tell you about our 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:21.720 newest partner in the W Marketplace. Founded by two women, 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:25.200 it's a nationwide e commerce site for women entrepreneurs and 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.720 the shoppers who support them. It offers favorable terms and 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:32.480 is a supportive community for female founded companies. With over 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:36.400 five hundred women owned businesses selling thousands of products and services, 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:40.040 the W Marketplace might be your favorite new sales channel. 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:44.880 Intrigued learn more at Join the w Marketplace dot com. 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:48.400 You grew up in Arizona until you were eleven or twelve, 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.360 and you're one of six kids, one of six? Yes, 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:56.000 what's your relationship with your family like now? My father 0:16:56.040 --> 0:17:00.320 has passed away, my mother is still here. She's very 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:03.400 much central to how I think she was. They were 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.359 both orphans and one of six. Um. I always say, 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:07.920 I spent the first seleven years of my life in 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.240 a hotel called Starlife of Root sixty six. I'm very pragmatic. 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:15.680 I believe in doing your best right now to help 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:19.960 a system that only can change if people care enough 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.960 to participate. And UM, I think that that's the real 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:26.920 difference is that I don't buy into fairy tales too 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:31.200 much because I haven't seen one yet. And um, all 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:34.320 I see is hard work and people making sacrifices and 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:38.560 no matter what they're suffering or enduring, trying to promote 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:44.160 unity and or love in some kind of real world way. 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:48.040 So I love my mother. She's UM. If I get 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:51.920 any of my imagination or any of my sweetness, If 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.200 I have any sweetness, it comes from her. From her. 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:58.080 She's a very beautiful person and very kind and naive, 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.320 and yet very wise. People call her like black Yoda. 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:06.800 And my father was a real firebrand. He was charismatic, 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:11.439 he was handsome in a black way, dark skin, he 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:15.000 had to go tooth on his front, tooth um. That 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:17.240 was when it was something that was a prestige and 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:21.639 status and not some sort of rapper persona. And he 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:26.639 also was, like I said, when a man of many parts. 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:29.960 He wasn't necessarily what he always showed himself to be 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:34.040 the people. He was ridiculously talented and seen as a healer. 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.000 He had been a boy preacher from since he was six, 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:41.399 and back in the Punecostal tradition, you can be a 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.959 preacher that young, but you're also used in kind of 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:47.720 because he was so talented, I think he learned the 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:51.600 wrong lessons and he saw too much of of people 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:54.399 taking advantage of him. But then he also learned it 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.240 because he was so good. And this is no shade 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:01.680 to white people. They've never seen anything like him except 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:05.240 for Martin Luther King and these types of really powerful, 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:08.240 charismatic black men that were coming out of the sixties, 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:10.919 and they wanted a little piece of that necesanities. And 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:12.879 so I think when the Lutheran Church took him up. 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:17.040 They saw an opportunity to support and have a new 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:19.159 voice in there in their midst and I think they 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:21.960 were smart to do so. But I also thought and 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.960 my father took advantage of this sort of crush they 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:27.400 had on him. And I find that at different times 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:29.719 in America, we we find these black men and were 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.960 getting we fall in love with them, get crushes, and 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:35.680 we don't often see exactly who they are, or we 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:39.080 don't support who they need to be. And I think 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:41.879 black people are the same way that we have a profound, 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:46.439 weird relationship with whiteness that's been put on us. So 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:49.199 I'm not blaming us. I'm just saying that we are 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:51.800 at odds at it at all times. And it's so 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:55.000 weird how we're all woven together in this world and 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:57.159 we don't see that we have each other's blood. We 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:00.080 have Irish blood and the Scottish, all this stuff. We're 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:04.480 cousins with cousins through the struggle with cousins through actual 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:07.080 blood blood, and yet we sat here and fight and 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:13.360 have all these deformities in psychological mental incapacities, and um, 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:17.959 we really are in UM. I just think America is 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:21.639 so much there's so much for our future that we 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.159 could learn from each other, but we can't if we 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:28.199 see each other's is not family, and we are profoundly family. 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.480 Speaking of how much there is to do in the world, 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:35.440 how do you choose where to put your efforts? There's 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:40.840 only one of you, so which causes and which efforts 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:45.399 have you chosen? Uh? As as the place is to 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:49.440 put your attention, I put my attention mostly on women 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:52.760 and girls. I think that women are an example of 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:56.919 sustainable future for us all. I think that they always 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:01.040 make the village better. I was the most traveled surrogate 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:04.359 for Hillary Clinton, and she sent me around the world 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:08.239 to learn from people and be around people who I 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:12.160 could have a template for in a blueprint. I'm grateful 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:14.840 to her for that. She because of that, I was 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:18.520 around uh John Lewis and got a chance to produce 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:22.440 her his his documentary Good Trouble. Because of her, I've 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:26.600 met Maya Angel, Louin Um, Jana van Zandt, and Stephanie Tubbs, 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:29.320 and Sheila jack Jackson Lee. I just did a reparations 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:33.159 documentary that follows Sheila Jackson Lee with HR forty and 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:35.879 Reparations and Robert Rue Simmons, the all the women who 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:39.040 passed the first reparations bill in American history, and we 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:41.639 watched that in real time when it never happened again, 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:44.880 but she did it. These are women, and I've met 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:49.600 amazing women running Google with all these diversity and diversity positions. 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:53.200 I've met you, I've met Amy. I think I've I'm 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:56.040 most likely drawn to strong women because I don't believe 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:59.040 that they get enough help. People think that they have 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:02.000 a lot of power and have it all together because 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:08.120 they're so massively um able. What they're often the least supported, 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:14.160 and people are scared of. Often strong women, I'm not UM. 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:18.040 I see them as being profoundly vulnerable, and um, if 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:20.520 we're going to win this world, I'm going to help 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:23.359 the people who I feel like will be the most 0:22:23.400 --> 0:22:28.919 attacked and could use hopefully the strength and how I 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:31.320 see them to shield them a little bit from the 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:33.520 world and say I see you, and what can I 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:36.919 do to help talk to us about finding Tamika. I 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:41.280 was sometimes speak at I don't know events or for causes, 0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:44.920 but um, I was speaking somewhere in Alabama, and there 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:48.639 was a black man named David Person who I stayed 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:50.040 in touch with him, when do you kind of touch 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:52.120 with me? And said, Erica, there's this woman that I met. 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:56.320 Her name is Rebecca Howard. Her nice went missing in 0:22:56.400 --> 0:23:00.680 two thousand five, Tamika Houston and Tonika Houston. UM is 0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:04.120