1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,680
Speaker 1: Are you a Stuff to Blow your Mind fan? Are

2
00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:03,880
Speaker 1: you a New Yorker? Do you plan to attend this

3
00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,800
Speaker 1: year's New York Comic Con. If so, then you've got

4
00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,600
Speaker 1: to check out our exclusive live show NYCC presents Stuff

5
00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,000
Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind Live Stranger Science. Join all three

6
00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,880
Speaker 1: of us as we record a live podcast about the

7
00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:21,640
Speaker 1: exciting science and tantalizing pseudo science underlying the hit Netflix

8
00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,840
Speaker 1: show Stranger Things. It all goes down Friday, October six

9
00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,240
Speaker 1: from seven pm to eight thirty pm at the Hudson

10
00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,279
Speaker 1: Mercantile in Manhattan. Stuff you missed in history class has

11
00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,920
Speaker 1: a show right before us, so you can really double down,

12
00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,920
Speaker 1: learn more and buy your tickets today at New York

13
00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:46,239
Speaker 1: Comic Con dot com slash NYCC hyphen presents Welcome to

14
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:55,840
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind from How Stuffworks dot com. Hey,

15
00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:57,960
Speaker 1: welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name is

16
00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:01,920
Speaker 1: Robert Lamb and I'm Christian Saga. Hey, Robert, I remember

17
00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,280
Speaker 1: when you first told me that you had a tattoo.

18
00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,840
Speaker 1: It was when I first started the show. Uh. We

19
00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,000
Speaker 1: did an episode on stigmata, and I remember we were

20
00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,560
Speaker 1: about halfway through the episode. Listeners who have listened that

21
00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,039
Speaker 1: far back me remember this as well, and you just

22
00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,120
Speaker 1: kind of casually dropped like, oh, yeah, I've got this

23
00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,760
Speaker 1: tattoo that stigmata related, and I thought you might be

24
00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,800
Speaker 1: joking with me, but I just kept going and then

25
00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,080
Speaker 1: later on I found out it was true. It's true. Yeah,

26
00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,640
Speaker 1: I do have a tattoo that is um. It's it's

27
00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,000
Speaker 1: kind of an abstract thing, so it's it's definitely inspired

28
00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:37,640
Speaker 1: by stigmatic imagery, you know, regarding the spear wound of Christ,

29
00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:42,040
Speaker 1: especially in classic paintings. But it's also kind of shape,

30
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,520
Speaker 1: kind of resembles an i'd has some yawnic symbolism to it.

31
00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,720
Speaker 1: So I in getting it, I wanted something that speaks

32
00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,400
Speaker 1: about who I am and where I came from and

33
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,800
Speaker 1: you know, and and it kind of serves as um,

34
00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,240
Speaker 1: a hyper sigle, you know, to to to to wear

35
00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,280
Speaker 1: on my body and within my body. Uh. And it's

36
00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:04,720
Speaker 1: it's one that I've had an artist. I had, I

37
00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,800
Speaker 1: like some ideas, and I gave the ideas to an

38
00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:08,760
Speaker 1: artist and he came up with a few different sketches.

39
00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,560
Speaker 1: Then I picked one and then I said that's the one,

40
00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,560
Speaker 1: and then you know, waited until it was at the

41
00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,000
Speaker 1: right time. And I had that extra, you know, hundreds

42
00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,960
Speaker 1: or so bucks kicking around my my bank account to

43
00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,600
Speaker 1: spend on it. Wow, what how old were you when

44
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,880
Speaker 1: you got it? Oh? I was. I might have been

45
00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,600
Speaker 1: in my early thirties or early twenties at the time. Yeah,

46
00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:31,640
Speaker 1: so it took a while. It was. I put a

47
00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,040
Speaker 1: lot of thought into it, thinking I'll probably only ever

48
00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,760
Speaker 1: get one tattoo, and I wanted to be the exact

49
00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:42,600
Speaker 1: right tattoo. How about yourself? Though, I have no tattoos,

50
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:47,400
Speaker 1: and that's always surprising to people, but especially because you know,

51
00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,200
Speaker 1: I came from a punk metal subculture. I played music

52
00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,240
Speaker 1: in that, and there's obviously a lot of ink flowing

53
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,560
Speaker 1: over there. Almost all of my friends have got tattoos

54
00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,760
Speaker 1: of some kind. My mom even tried to me to

55
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,400
Speaker 1: get a tattoo with her when I was sixteen years old.

56
00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,200
Speaker 1: My mom is one of these people who she's like

57
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,120
Speaker 1: an aging hippie now, but like when I was like

58
00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,120
Speaker 1: fourteen years old, she pierced her nose on her own,

59
00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:16,560
Speaker 1: like she's that kind of person. She was like, Oh,

60
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,359
Speaker 1: I'm going to have a nose ring now, and like,

61
00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,520
Speaker 1: I just I think maybe that's probably part of it

62
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,160
Speaker 1: is you know, the like whole idea of the rebelling

63
00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,920
Speaker 1: against authority figures, Like my authority figure was constantly like,

64
00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,920
Speaker 1: let's get tattoos, let's pierce my nose, and it just

65
00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,920
Speaker 1: never so for you was kind of an active rebellion

66
00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,119
Speaker 1: to not to do it was for a while. Yeah,

67
00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,600
Speaker 1: I think there's other reasons now. And as we were

68
00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,760
Speaker 1: doing research for this episode, I felt like it sort

69
00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,360
Speaker 1: of helped codify for me why I why I don't

70
00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,400
Speaker 1: have tattoos. Um. And the thing is is, while I

71
00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,720
Speaker 1: don't have any myself, I feel more comfortable around people

72
00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,840
Speaker 1: who have them, you know, like like the subcultures that

73
00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,760
Speaker 1: tend to have tattoos, like, for instance, like music subcultures

74
00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,520
Speaker 1: or or um, my wife takes part in roller derby,

75
00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,360
Speaker 1: so if I go to a roller Derby match, you know,

76
00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,320
Speaker 1: everybody's got tattoos there, I just feel more at home.

77
00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,120
Speaker 1: It's I think it's just maybe like they feel like

78
00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,960
Speaker 1: they're my people because that's who I kind of grew

79
00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:18,040
Speaker 1: up around. Maybe, But uh, I also have something to

80
00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,400
Speaker 1: add to this. I had a professor who was kind

81
00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,480
Speaker 1: of a mentor of mine when I was an undergraduate,

82
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:29,040
Speaker 1: and he said multiple times to classes that he considered

83
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:34,080
Speaker 1: tattoos as the first step toward fascism. Uh. And he

84
00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,560
Speaker 1: would never unpack that. If people asked him to, he

85
00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,200
Speaker 1: would basically say, you need to figure it out for yourself. Uh.

86
00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,120
Speaker 1: And it's important to remember this guy. His mentor was

87
00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,480
Speaker 1: Hannah Arrant, who's pretty famous. A lot of people know

88
00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,120
Speaker 1: who she is, but she's a person who coined the

89
00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,360
Speaker 1: term the banality of evil. She escaped from Europe during

90
00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,159
Speaker 1: the Holocaust. So I think that was influential on him

91
00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:57,599
Speaker 1: in terms of tattoos, thinking about the tattooing of people

92
00:04:57,640 --> 00:04:59,880
Speaker 1: going to concentration camps. Yeah, well as well as well

93
00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,719
Speaker 1: to us in this episode. There are certain tattooed traditions

94
00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,680
Speaker 1: where you see the use of penal tattoos, uh, tattoos

95
00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,039
Speaker 1: that are supposed to serve as a form of punishment

96
00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,560
Speaker 1: or as a mark to let other people know what

97
00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,400
Speaker 1: you're about. But basically it comes down to that kind

98
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,240
Speaker 1: of communication. And all communication, can you know, can take

99
00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:22,040
Speaker 1: various forms. It canna be positive or negative or relatively mundane.

100
00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,320
Speaker 1: And I think I think the beauty of tattoo traditions

101
00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,320
Speaker 1: when they're when they're utilized, you know, for the positive

102
00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,760
Speaker 1: and they're not used as a form of punishment or subjugation.

103
00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:35,960
Speaker 1: Is that it does allow us to better control the

104
00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:41,080
Speaker 1: the outward communication that we're engaging with with other humans. Yeah, absolutely,

105
00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,000
Speaker 1: And I have notes about this later on in the episode,

106
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,880
Speaker 1: but I consider it to be a form of nonverbal

107
00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,839
Speaker 1: communication that we have just sort of really taken control over.

108
00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,880
Speaker 1: We'll get into that later, but back to that professor,

109
00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,279
Speaker 1: I understand the logic of his point. I think I

110
00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,520
Speaker 1: don't necessarily agree with it, but I think what he

111
00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,400
Speaker 1: was trying to say is marking your body permanently is

112
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:08,159
Speaker 1: a step toward a single symbol or signifier, right that

113
00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,640
Speaker 1: you only encapsulate maybe that one thing. And you know,

114
00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:14,880
Speaker 1: he was from a very different generation than ours as well,

115
00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,479
Speaker 1: and as we'll talk about, this is quite a generational

116
00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:22,120
Speaker 1: thing in terms of the psychology surrounding tattoos. But um so, yeah,

117
00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,320
Speaker 1: I think that's where he was coming from on it.

118
00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,880
Speaker 1: It was an interesting perspective. Well. I do sometimes think

119
00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:28,880
Speaker 1: of it in terms of, say, what if a what

120
00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,200
Speaker 1: if a government like the government in the Handmade's Tail

121
00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:33,640
Speaker 1: took over and then they're like, all right, we need

122
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,479
Speaker 1: to see everybody's tattoos, so we'll know what you're about

123
00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,240
Speaker 1: and you can't keep your secrets from us. And uh

124
00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,080
Speaker 1: And in my own case, I know, I guess I

125
00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,160
Speaker 1: would just have to just really double down on the

126
00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,240
Speaker 1: Christians we have and be like, no, it's just it's

127
00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,600
Speaker 1: just a spear one, nothing else to it. Can I

128
00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,600
Speaker 1: put my shirt back on? But other people wouldn't be,

129
00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,120
Speaker 1: you know, so lucky. They would have to explain their

130
00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,760
Speaker 1: you know, their their Danzig skull skull on their their shoulders.

131
00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,160
Speaker 1: I have friends who got tatto two's when they're real

132
00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,040
Speaker 1: young and then regretted it and later on ended up

133
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,120
Speaker 1: getting either tattoo removal like with lasers, or getting like

134
00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,840
Speaker 1: blackout tattoos where they would just cover there the tattoos

135
00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,640
Speaker 1: that they didn't like they regretted having with just like

136
00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,840
Speaker 1: blocks of black, which actually looks kind of cool. Yeah,

137
00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,960
Speaker 1: and you do see some cool examples two of people

138
00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,040
Speaker 1: covering up a tattoo that's either or augmenting in a

139
00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:27,800
Speaker 1: in a way. You know, if it's a dated tattoo

140
00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,120
Speaker 1: or tattoo that they just don't connect with anymore. So

141
00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,960
Speaker 1: where it is, you know, it's sustained damage over time,

142
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,120
Speaker 1: so there are a number of different ways one might

143
00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,320
Speaker 1: address it. Yeah, So today's episode, if you haven't guessed already,

144
00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:43,080
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk mainly about the psychology of tattoos. There's

145
00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,000
Speaker 1: a previous episode of Stuff to Blow Your Mind that

146
00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,080
Speaker 1: Julie and Robert did together that was about the science,

147
00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,280
Speaker 1: so we will we will tap on that, but we're

148
00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,120
Speaker 1: not going to go as deep as I believe you

149
00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,560
Speaker 1: guys did in that episode. Yeah. Likewise, there is a

150
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,840
Speaker 1: companion episode of that that we did about the future

151
00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:59,600
Speaker 1: of tattoos that gets into all of these you know,

152
00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,600
Speaker 1: crazy glowing tattoos and whatnot, and so we're not going

153
00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:04,920
Speaker 1: to touch on a lot of that. This episode is

154
00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:06,960
Speaker 1: gonna really we're gonna look a little bit of the

155
00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,160
Speaker 1: basic science of because I think that's important, but it's

156
00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,360
Speaker 1: gonna focus more on the psychology of it, so the

157
00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,600
Speaker 1: mindset of the the the individual with the tattoo, and

158
00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,560
Speaker 1: then those who gaze upon our tattoos. Yeah. So, if

159
00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,760
Speaker 1: you are looking for something about tattoos that we didn't

160
00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,240
Speaker 1: cover here, go to stuff works dot com and and

161
00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,720
Speaker 1: just type tattoos into it, and you're gonna find just

162
00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,280
Speaker 1: hundreds of pieces of information that are both in audio

163
00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,680
Speaker 1: and text format. I mean there's there's literally I think

164
00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,120
Speaker 1: over a hundred pieces. And likewise, as we go through this,

165
00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,679
Speaker 1: I know that individuals out there with tattoos and tattoos,

166
00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:47,199
Speaker 1: stories and deep thoughts on their choices and tattoos. You

167
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,600
Speaker 1: may want to share your stories and or images of

168
00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,760
Speaker 1: those tattoos with us, and uh, just stick around. At

169
00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:53,719
Speaker 1: the end of the show, we'll tell you how to

170
00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:55,560
Speaker 1: get in touch with us. A great way to do

171
00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,840
Speaker 1: that would be either email us or to go onto

172
00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,640
Speaker 1: the Facebook group the discussion module for the stuff to

173
00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:04,040
Speaker 1: blow your mind if you want to share it not

174
00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,680
Speaker 1: only with us, but also with other listeners. Yeah. Absolutely,

175
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,080
Speaker 1: there's a great community going on there all right. So

176
00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,840
Speaker 1: when did tattoos start? Like, when did people start doing

177
00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,720
Speaker 1: this to themselves? Oh? Man, this is one of those

178
00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,400
Speaker 1: those questions. Whether the answer is just lost ultimately in

179
00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,920
Speaker 1: the mists of history. You can only assume as soon

180
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,920
Speaker 1: as individuals were uh, you know, learned that they could

181
00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,559
Speaker 1: augment their bodies, that they could you know, it probably

182
00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,800
Speaker 1: began with accidental scratches and uh and mutilations and scars

183
00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,160
Speaker 1: forming and then realizing that sometimes pigment could wind up

184
00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,880
Speaker 1: in there, and uh, eventually the the the earliest tattoo

185
00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,080
Speaker 1: rituals began to emerge. Yeah, the earliest example we have

186
00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,760
Speaker 1: is this guy who's referred to as the Iceman Mummy

187
00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,400
Speaker 1: that was found in the Alps, and he had tattoos

188
00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,200
Speaker 1: and as far as we can tell, he lived around

189
00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,360
Speaker 1: three thousand, three hundred BCS, so that's pretty far back. Yeah,

190
00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:02,200
Speaker 1: that we're talking years older. So also known as Ootsi

191
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,439
Speaker 1: the Iceman. I wonder who got to name him. Well,

192
00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,760
Speaker 1: we looked it up real quick and it's it's referring

193
00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,800
Speaker 1: to the region in which the body was found. It's

194
00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:14,240
Speaker 1: a region of the Alps near the Austrian Italian border. Now,

195
00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,679
Speaker 1: tattooing traditions they pop up just about everywhere in human culture,

196
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:24,080
Speaker 1: from degrading penal tattooed traditions in China and late antiquity Europe,

197
00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:30,000
Speaker 1: the Mediterranean uh proud aesthetic tattooing traditions among the ancient Egyptians,

198
00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,560
Speaker 1: the ancient Persians, and now just about you know, anyone

199
00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,679
Speaker 1: with an inclination for a bit of ink, uh, can

200
00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,040
Speaker 1: it can at least grab you know, something off of

201
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,360
Speaker 1: the chart on the wall. If they're nearest tattoo parlor

202
00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,439
Speaker 1: and join the club. Yeah, absolutely, and we will when

203
00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:46,880
Speaker 1: we get into the psychology of this. Uh, we're going

204
00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,240
Speaker 1: to talk about the difference between how people choose what

205
00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,800
Speaker 1: their tattoo is going to be too. Now I want

206
00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:55,760
Speaker 1: to have it. Just to throw in something else about

207
00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,600
Speaker 1: the ancient Egyptians because this is really really fascinating and

208
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,640
Speaker 1: gets into some of the reasons were discussed later. But uh,

209
00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,680
Speaker 1: we find these presidents several female mummies dated to around

210
00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:12,120
Speaker 1: two thousand BC, exclusively female, perhaps royal cortisans, dancers, etcetera.

211
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:17,880
Speaker 1: And our archaeologist Joanne Fletcher theorizes that these tattoos had

212
00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,120
Speaker 1: had some sort of a therapeutic purpose and they functioned

213
00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,640
Speaker 1: as a sort of a permanent form of protective ammulet,

214
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,040
Speaker 1: kind of a magical spell that was intended to protect

215
00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:34,560
Speaker 1: the individual during pregnancy and childbirth. Oh wow, that's really interesting. Okay, huh. Well,

216
00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,240
Speaker 1: given what we know about ancient Egyptians and mummification and

217
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:43,560
Speaker 1: how into body I guess sculpting they were, right or

218
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:48,760
Speaker 1: just like just turning, turning the body into something other. Right,

219
00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,120
Speaker 1: it totally makes sense that tattoos would be a big

220
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,040
Speaker 1: part of that culture and It's interesting when you think

221
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,400
Speaker 1: of language and symbolism as language and symbolism as a

222
00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,360
Speaker 1: way to communicate meaning and to UH and and to

223
00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,360
Speaker 1: externalized meaning, and then to take that and put it

224
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,040
Speaker 1: on the body and make it a part of yourself again.

225
00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,840
Speaker 1: I think that's an interesting process. So, if we're talking

226
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,280
Speaker 1: about modern day, here's some general tattoo stats for you.

227
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:17,960
Speaker 1: They have increased significantly in popularity in the last two decades.

228
00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,840
Speaker 1: Almost one in five people across all age groups has

229
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,920
Speaker 1: a tattoo, and this is as of one in ten

230
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:31,960
Speaker 1: people have two or more tattoos. Nearly forty of young adults,

231
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,880
Speaker 1: that's people ages eighteen to twenty five have at least one,

232
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,640
Speaker 1: and only fifteen percent of that age group had them

233
00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,480
Speaker 1: in nineteen nineties. So you can see that there's been

234
00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,440
Speaker 1: a big boom since uh, since I guess you and

235
00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,320
Speaker 1: I were in high school, up until present day. UH. Now,

236
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,520
Speaker 1: despite this, there's still seems to be discrimination and negative

237
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:56,040
Speaker 1: stigma toward people who have tattoos, and this subsequently leads

238
00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,320
Speaker 1: to lower levels of employment for them. Don't forget the

239
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,240
Speaker 1: Book of Live Viticus has a little bit of a

240
00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,080
Speaker 1: role in this, and this is the passage from it.

241
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,800
Speaker 1: This is a Leviticus nine, you shall not make any

242
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,960
Speaker 1: gashes on your flesh for the dead, or tattoo any

243
00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,480
Speaker 1: marks upon you. But at the same time, there's a

244
00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,480
Speaker 1: long history of Christian tattooing as well. Coptic Christians have

245
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:23,400
Speaker 1: marked their bodies with Christian symbols since the eighth century. Yeah,

246
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,040
Speaker 1: and of course you have to point out that if

247
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,440
Speaker 1: you start poking around on Leviticus, I mean, technically you

248
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,040
Speaker 1: can't do anything. Yeah. Isn't that the one that like

249
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,800
Speaker 1: talks about like um pig skin like you, I think

250
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,920
Speaker 1: you can't play football. Yeah, it's It's definitely the part

251
00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:38,640
Speaker 1: of the Bible that always brings to mind the bit

252
00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,040
Speaker 1: on The Simpsons where the pastor points out to ned

253
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,679
Speaker 1: Flanders that technically we can't do anything. But here's the thing.

254
00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:50,079
Speaker 1: In Western culture tattoos, you know, honestly, they were originally

255
00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:54,560
Speaker 1: associated with criminals and the sexually promiscuous, but other recent

256
00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,280
Speaker 1: studies show these are the following stereotypes that people associate

257
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:04,840
Speaker 1: tattoos with academic struggle, broken homes, traumatic childhood, lack of

258
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,560
Speaker 1: church in their life, poor decision making skills, and the

259
00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,520
Speaker 1: susceptibility to peer pressure. But you have to ask yourself.

260
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,600
Speaker 1: With this rising popularity, is this changing? And I don't

261
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:21,280
Speaker 1: mean is are these people changing from being those types

262
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,520
Speaker 1: of people to being other types of people? I mean

263
00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:27,000
Speaker 1: the stigma. Is the stigma changing? Are people realizing that

264
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,560
Speaker 1: that stigma is unfair? I think? And I can totally

265
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,800
Speaker 1: understand why. If you're listening right now and you have

266
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,760
Speaker 1: a tattoo, you're probably thinking this is really it's really unfair.

267
00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:43,200
Speaker 1: But remember, human nonverbal communication is heavily built around appearance

268
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,640
Speaker 1: and the artifacts that we own and where, and these

269
00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,080
Speaker 1: can alter judgment and interpretations, and these even lead to

270
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,120
Speaker 1: how much money people can earn. And here's a simple example, right,

271
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,680
Speaker 1: think to how much time people spend agonizing over what

272
00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,520
Speaker 1: their online a tar is going to be, right like,

273
00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,440
Speaker 1: what what? What is going to be that representation to

274
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,880
Speaker 1: people who may not ever even meet me in real life.

275
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,920
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily the best or the most logical practice,

276
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,000
Speaker 1: but it is inherently how human animals operate. It's how

277
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,200
Speaker 1: we communicate with each other on like a kind of

278
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,880
Speaker 1: primal basis. So all right, Despite that, the market for

279
00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:28,840
Speaker 1: tattoo consumption has largely been seen as bikers prisoners, gang members,

280
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,640
Speaker 1: and other marginalized members of the working class. But now

281
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,400
Speaker 1: with this boom, it's also being seen as something that

282
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,880
Speaker 1: belongs to middle class artists or professionals. And I would

283
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:44,080
Speaker 1: also throw in, like, you know, high level movie actors

284
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,000
Speaker 1: as well. I mean, how how many actors can you

285
00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,600
Speaker 1: think of now that have at times a ridiculous amount

286
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,720
Speaker 1: of tattoos on their body that have to be covered

287
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,280
Speaker 1: of with makeup for their roles Except for the Rock

288
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,080
Speaker 1: That guy never covers his tattoos, it seems. I think

289
00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,680
Speaker 1: I've seen him have them painted over here. I feel

290
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,320
Speaker 1: like every character he plays has the exact same tattoos

291
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,640
Speaker 1: he has in real life. I'm glad that they were

292
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,080
Speaker 1: on actors and movies now, because I think that is

293
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,520
Speaker 1: that is essential here. Because on one hand, yes, we

294
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,440
Speaker 1: we all inevitably get engaged with individuals in our life

295
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,680
Speaker 1: that have tattoos, and therefore know that just everyday folks

296
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,400
Speaker 1: have tattoos in many cases, however, we're also consuming all

297
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,040
Speaker 1: of this media and just think of the tattoos that

298
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:29,280
Speaker 1: you experience on television and in films, and how many

299
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,800
Speaker 1: of those individuals end up falling into these categories, Like

300
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,400
Speaker 1: how many tattooed gang members. Have you encountered on TV?

301
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:41,760
Speaker 1: How many like tattooed bikers or stripper characters, or you know,

302
00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:47,320
Speaker 1: we're somehow sexually dangerous individuals. All of these stereotypes are

303
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,840
Speaker 1: still very much in play in our media, even if

304
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,560
Speaker 1: we're getting better at dealing with them in our daily life.

305
00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,920
Speaker 1: And so you end up with, if not overt bias,

306
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:01,119
Speaker 1: you have this implicit bias in dealing with uh with tattoos.

307
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,840
Speaker 1: You know, you just encounter someone with a tattoo and

308
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,720
Speaker 1: suddenly you're you're checking it based on something you saw

309
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,160
Speaker 1: in a prison movie. Yeah. Yeah, I have a perfect

310
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,160
Speaker 1: example that I think might be like a a nice

311
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,120
Speaker 1: like marker point in the nineties for when the tattoo

312
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,199
Speaker 1: culture started to become more prominent and acceptable. I know

313
00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,000
Speaker 1: you haven't watched The X Files a lot, but you

314
00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,440
Speaker 1: might know about this one. There's an episode where Scully

315
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,639
Speaker 1: gets a tattoo and uh it, but she gets ergot

316
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,000
Speaker 1: poisoning from the tattoo. We have we have an episode

317
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:36,119
Speaker 1: about about right, Yeah, and so the tattoo artist for

318
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:40,280
Speaker 1: some reason is mixing or got into the ink, and

319
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,320
Speaker 1: the people who get tattoos from this person subsequently hallucinate

320
00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:47,560
Speaker 1: and start doing crazy things. She is among them. Uh

321
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,720
Speaker 1: but you know, if you've seen the show before, Scully

322
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:53,959
Speaker 1: is like the consummate professional, very white collar FBI agent.

323
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,920
Speaker 1: She comes from a good family, she's very Christian, right,

324
00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,800
Speaker 1: But there's like a point in that series where she decides,

325
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,760
Speaker 1: you know, I need to I need to get a tattoo.

326
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,200
Speaker 1: She gets an herborous tattoo, I believe, and there's even

327
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:10,080
Speaker 1: some implication show that her tattoo somehow means that she's immortal.

328
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,080
Speaker 1: If you're a real hardcore X Files fan, you'll know

329
00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:14,760
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. Where does she get it? Out

330
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,560
Speaker 1: of curiosity? It's like, if I remember correctly, it's like

331
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,560
Speaker 1: a real like dingy tattoo show. It's like a stigma. Yeah.

332
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,280
Speaker 1: I think it's like a Russian tattoo guy and like

333
00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:29,520
Speaker 1: the the you know this like horrible back room closet

334
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,720
Speaker 1: where he does tattoos wearing her wear in her body's

335
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,159
Speaker 1: I believe. I think it's on her back. Yeah, you know,

336
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,879
Speaker 1: I think my version of this was probably watching the

337
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,040
Speaker 1: Tales from the Crypt episode back in the day where

338
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,240
Speaker 1: somebody gets a tattoo and it's like it's a possessed

339
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,560
Speaker 1: tattoo over them, which which is a you know, a

340
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:52,280
Speaker 1: none too subtle invoking of of tattoo stereotypes. Yeah, absolutely

341
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,159
Speaker 1: that this would actually make a great trailer talk for us.

342
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,320
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe when this episode airs, we can do a

343
00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,439
Speaker 1: trailer talk that week about evil tattoo of views or

344
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,639
Speaker 1: something like that, because there's so many like h And

345
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,440
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about like the Ray Bradberry book of

346
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,919
Speaker 1: short stories, The Illustrated Man, which is like basically the

347
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,119
Speaker 1: conceit is that somebody meets a tattooed man from like

348
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,240
Speaker 1: a freak show, and each one of his tattoos kind

349
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,840
Speaker 1: of comes to life and tells one of the short stories.

350
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,960
Speaker 1: It's pretty wonderful idea, and I think it's been taken.

351
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,280
Speaker 1: You know. There's like, if I remember correctly, they're superheroes

352
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,480
Speaker 1: who have like tattoo powers, like their tattoos come to

353
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,000
Speaker 1: life or something like a giant snakell jump off their

354
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,399
Speaker 1: body and to fight people for them or something. Alright, well,

355
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,160
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and when we come back,

356
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,040
Speaker 1: we will we will breathe through how a tattoo actually

357
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,880
Speaker 1: comes to life on your body, and then we'll begin

358
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,520
Speaker 1: to get into a lot of this psychological content that

359
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:52,280
Speaker 1: we've been we've been hinting at all. Right, we're back.

360
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,280
Speaker 1: So how does this whole thing work? I mean, essentially,

361
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,840
Speaker 1: we know, we understand there's a needle, there's ink and

362
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,200
Speaker 1: gets pushed into your flow. It's a cut, the ink

363
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 1: is underneath that. Right. We actually did a brain Stuff

364
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 1: video episode all about the actual process and how the

365
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,960
Speaker 1: machines work. Is this the one where Holly from Stuff

366
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 1: you missed in history class got the Star Wars stuff?

367
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 1: That's a different one actually, Yeah, this one's hosted by

368
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 1: Lauren Vogelbaum from the food Stuff podcast. But but it's

369
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 1: mainly about how the actual machines work, or what most

370
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,360
Speaker 1: people refer to as tattoo guns, but tattoo artists will

371
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 1: tell you they prefer the term machines rather than guns. Yeah,

372
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:33,400
Speaker 1: and obviously we didn't always have the machines. But but

373
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,919
Speaker 1: whether you're dealing with a high tech tattoo machine or

374
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 1: you're dealing with more traditional practices, I mean, the basic

375
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 1: idea is still the same. You're taking tattoo inc and

376
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,840
Speaker 1: you're pushing it up into the under the skin, into

377
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,520
Speaker 1: the skin, and doing so in a way to to

378
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 1: form shape, symbols, et cetera. It's kind of like a

379
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 1: light bright but with with you know, little little bits

380
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,640
Speaker 1: of ink and your skin. Yeah, okay, So, traditionally, tattoo

381
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 1: ink was made out of anything from soot to metal salts,

382
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,920
Speaker 1: and as health concerns cropped up around the use of

383
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 1: potentially toxic substances as a pigment, natural vegetable based organic

384
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 1: pigments have also come into fashion. Um, And there's actually

385
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,679
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk too much about futuristic tattoo ideas,

386
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,080
Speaker 1: but there's a remarkable approach that's out there today that

387
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 1: entails gaining the carbon for black tattoos because and in

388
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,680
Speaker 1: many cases you would get the black for the tattoos

389
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 1: from just burnt wood, but you can also get it

390
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,439
Speaker 1: from burnt organic samples such as hair or even like

391
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 1: the cremains of a loved one. There's no reason you

392
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 1: can't take that, make it into a tattoo ink and

393
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,679
Speaker 1: put it right into your body. So once you have

394
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,720
Speaker 1: the ink, yeah, it's basically just as simple as injecting

395
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 1: it under the skin, spelling drawing something out as you

396
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 1: see fit um. You know, in the hands of a

397
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 1: tattoo artist. So the big question I think that a

398
00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:59,880
Speaker 1: lot of people have. The big question I have had

399
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 1: of the longest was well, once you get that in

400
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 1: the skin, well, how does it stay there? Why does

401
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 1: it stay there? Because we've all heard these stats about,

402
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 1: you know, the cell replacement in our bodies, and you

403
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 1: know how long you're seven years, you're a different person. Yeah,

404
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,719
Speaker 1: and we know that over time tattoos can certainly degray.

405
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 1: Like I remember seeing naval tattoos on old men and

406
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 1: church growing up, and it was like, maybe it was

407
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 1: a mermaid once, maybe it was a military insignia, but

408
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: it just turns to a green glob. Yeah, exactly. I

409
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 1: worked with an old naval marine in a restaurant when

410
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,639
Speaker 1: I was in high school, and he was one of

411
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: those guys. He just he had like all these old

412
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: tattoos he got from when he was you know, on ships,

413
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: but they were unrecognizable. They're just kind of like green blobs. Yeah, Okay,

414
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 1: So here's how they do stick around and why they

415
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 1: do kind of degrade after a while. Um, the body

416
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 1: replaces itself with a largely new set of cells every

417
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,120
Speaker 1: seven years to ten years, and some of our most

418
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: important parts are revamped even more rapidly. Red blood cells

419
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,239
Speaker 1: live for about four months, and those cells lining your

420
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: acid filled stomach, they're gonna they're gonna be lucky to

421
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: last five days. So don't never get a tattoo on

422
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 1: the inside of your stomach throwing it out there. Meanwhile,

423
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 1: the cells in your skeletal system, those are constantly regenerating.

424
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: But a full turn turnover there takes a full decade.

425
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: Now getting to the skin though, where they where you're

426
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: actually having the tattooing take place. Your outer layer of skin,

427
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 1: the epidermis has a has a pretty rough turnover as well.

428
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 1: It's it's the front line in the war against bodily infection,

429
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: solar radiation, razor burn uh, you know, skateboard wipeouts, you

430
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: name it. Uh. In this here you'll find a skin

431
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: rejuvenation takes place every two to four weeks. But when

432
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: you look at a snazzy tattoo be at you know

433
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 1: a mermaid or you know a tribal pattern, whatever, you're

434
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: not looking at the epidermis. You're looking through the epidermis.

435
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 1: The ink is in the dermis, which is the second

436
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 1: layer of the skin, and the cells of the dermis

437
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: are far more stable than the cells of the epidermist,

438
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: so the tattoo ink stays in place with minor fading

439
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: and dispersion over the course of a human lifetime. Okay,

440
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 1: and as an added a bit of insight into white

441
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: sticking around the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center dermatologist James B.

442
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 1: Britt and Stein pointed out in the Scientific American article

443
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: the tattoos remain in the skin as well because the

444
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: ink particles are too large to be ingested by the

445
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: white blood cells that patrol the body and carry away

446
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 1: foreign elements. Wow, that's really interesting. Yeah, huh, I wonder.

447
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:37,679
Speaker 1: I mean obviously, like early man that was giving himself

448
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: a tattoo, right, like this iceman that we talked about earlier,

449
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: didn't know that, right, but they must have somehow figured

450
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: that out. Like I wonder who the poor soul was

451
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: who had to like just keep going with a needle

452
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: until it went as deep as it needed to go

453
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: and then stay there. Yeah. It's one of those things

454
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: where you just you ask so many questions about how

455
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 1: you discover it and then how you sort of, you know,

456
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 1: trial and error, figure out the right the ritual and

457
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: the technique. Um, It also makes you think too about

458
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: human lifespans, like in a case where we're violence or

459
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: just the realities of early life or cutting human life

460
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: span short. Then you know that the tattoo is gonna

461
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: stay in there, unchanged for the duration. Likewise, what would uh,

462
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 1: what would an individual in the future who's living, you know,

463
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: easily over a century, Uh, what kind what is tattoo

464
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: alteration going to be? Like? Then? Oh, they're gonna have

465
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 1: to get touch ups. We're we're getting to that now. Really.

466
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 1: I mean I have friends who've already gotten touch ups

467
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: and they're only in middle age. Yeah, I mean yeah,

468
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: because if you get them in in high school or

469
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: even earlier, uh, then you know you're gonna have to

470
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: have to do something as your body changes. All right,

471
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: So those are the basics of how it works. And

472
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 1: again I feel like that's essential to just sort of

473
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: nail that, get it out of the way, so we

474
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: can start talking about some additional cultural practices and then

475
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: in the psychology that's wrapped up in those practices. All right,

476
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: So we're gonna jump around a little bit here, but

477
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 1: let's like, let's throw like a grab bag of cultural

478
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: practice examples out here. Related to tattooing. Okay, well, during

479
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: the Crusades of the eleven and twelfth century, you had

480
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 1: warriors that had tattoos on their body the mark of

481
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: the Jerusalem Cross, so that they could ideally be given

482
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 1: a Christian burial if they died in battle. And this

483
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: is in line with really with a lot of modern

484
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: tattoo medical tattoos, which we'll get to in a bit.

485
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,959
Speaker 1: You know, basically, there's information, vital information about who you

486
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 1: are and what should be done to your body in

487
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: the in the event of death or in the event

488
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: of of illness. It's like an idea bracelet now elsewhere

489
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: in the world. I mean, we'll jump around a little bit,

490
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: and we can't possibly touch every tattooing tradition, so apologies

491
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 1: of you know, for any of we left out here,

492
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 1: but tattooing has been pretty practice in Japan since at

493
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: least the fifth century BC for b two vacation from

494
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: magic to mark criminals, and certainly today, uh you know,

495
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: tattoos have an interesting place in Japanese culture because the

496
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: stigma of the Japanese yakuza tattoos still lingers, and we've

497
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: all seen images of like the full uh you know,

498
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: body tattooing that would traditionally take place there that has

499
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: you know, you know, images of dragons and uh, you know,

500
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: sort of violent imagery. Uh. And and so that that's

501
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: that's an area where you see probably more cultural stigma

502
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 1: as a whole towards tattoos. But even there things continue

503
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 1: to change. So that's one thing to keep in mind

504
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: when we talk about changing attitudes towards tattoos, that even

505
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: as acceptance grows, there's very much a topography to that

506
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: acceptance depending on where in the world we're discussing on,

507
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,479
Speaker 1: what particular subcultures are in place, et cetera. This actually

508
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 1: just dawned on me. For those of you outside the

509
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: United States, you might not be aware of this, but

510
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: there are some states at least are used to be

511
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 1: where it's illegal to tattoo. Uh. And I guess so

512
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: I'm not originally from the South where we are right now,

513
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: but are there any states around here where it's illegal? Um?

514
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know offhand, Okay, I mean I

515
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 1: always grew I grew up in Tennessee, yeah, and spent

516
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: most of my additional time in Georgia and always saw

517
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 1: tattoo Parlors. So it's legal in New Hampshire and it

518
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: wasn't legal in Massachusetts for a long time until like

519
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: maybe a little over a decade ago. Uh. And so

520
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: when I lived in Massachusetts, when people needed to get tattoos,

521
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: they would either drive north over the border to New

522
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: Hampshire and there was just tattooed. There were tons of

523
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: tattoo places right over the border, or they would go

524
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: down to Rhode Island and get tattoos. Yeah, but there's

525
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: obviously tattoo studios all over Massachusetts now since it's become legal,

526
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: But that was a thing for the recent you know history. Well, yeah,

527
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: it makes sense even in the face of legality, you

528
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: would have changing regulations depending on the state. Yeah. But

529
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: let's go back a little further than that. In Polynesia

530
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: in seventeen sixty nine, Captain Cook first observed that tattoos

531
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: there on the locals had a social function, and what

532
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: they did was they displayed hierarchical and genealogical information about

533
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: the owners, so what their place was within the class

534
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: of their society, but then also what their family information was,

535
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: who their relatives were. Uh. Here in the US, tattooing

536
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: was the practice really of mainly subcultures until the nineteen sixties. Right.

537
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: They were first seen on display and merchant seamen uh,

538
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: and then bikers seemed to be the next group that

539
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: decorated their bodies. My father in law is one of

540
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: these folks. He's a he's a biker and has lots

541
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: of tattoos that are related to riding his bike. But

542
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: in the late sixties, UH, tattoo studios became more prominent

543
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: and they had a focus on formal training, sterilization, and

544
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: the actual art of tattooing. Right, so you get to

545
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: two thousand. Okay, there is a study on demographics of

546
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: tattoo adopters and here's what they I found is that

547
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: the people who get tattoos do not differ from non

548
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: consumers of tattoos in the following areas socio economic origin,

549
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: family stability, volunteering, alcohol use, college performance, or sorority fraternity affiliation. Okay,

550
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: the only distinguishing factors that they could find were that

551
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: tattoo adopters tended to have a lower level of religiosity,

552
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: a higher level of tobacco use, and in fact, women

553
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: were slightly more likely to have tattoos, which surprised me.

554
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting, especially in the early two thousand's. Again, though,

555
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: here's another study in they identified two levels of tattoo symbolism.

556
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: This is again mainly in the West here. The first

557
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,239
Speaker 1: is the act of getting a tattoo that all on

558
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: its own is a symbolic act, but the second one

559
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 1: is obviously the art and design choice. Right. So interestingly,

560
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: they found that design was most often chosen by popularity

561
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: rather than internal symbolism. It seemed to be motivated by

562
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: imitation and was caused by the desire to create a

563
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: public self that signaled likeness to others. So this is

564
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: interesting to me. This is so we mentioned this earlier, right.

565
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: This is sort of the difference between walking into a

566
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: tattoo studio and picking something off the wall or doing

567
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: what you did where you've got a very specific idea,

568
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: you've worked long and hard on the artistic project behind it,

569
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 1: and then you bring that to the tattoo artist. Yeah,

570
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: I guess yes. The difference between sort of outward view

571
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: and outward facing and inward facing. I guess mine's even

572
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: more inward facing, since it only you know, not I

573
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: don't only show it off if I'm swimming or at

574
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: the beach or something, or to Saana. But but yeah,

575
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: I guess a lot of people it's it's a matter

576
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: of saying, I really like this sports team, are I

577
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: really like my country, or I was a part of

578
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: this military unit, and saying and so you choose the

579
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: established emblem and make it part of your body to

580
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: to communicate that out to the world. So yeah, there's

581
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: a there's a lot of variations in in at least

582
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: American tattoo culture. Now. In two thousand four, yet another

583
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: paper identified three types of people who adopt tattoos. The

584
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: first are the what they refer to as the fashion

585
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: aesthetic tattoo adopters, and these are people who are usually

586
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: influenced by peer groups and fashion trends towards what their

587
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: tattoos are. Then there is a group they called the

588
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: committed but concealed tattoos. This sounds like you. They're extensively

589
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: used as symbolic representations of personal life events. And then

590
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: the last one is committed collectors. Now, these are people

591
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: that reject the mainstream completely and develop their tattoos as

592
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: a career. They get a lot of tattoos and they

593
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: see it as a lifelong pursuit. So this would be

594
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: like the what's his name? The the individual with the

595
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: Jigsaw pattern who I think he was on the X Files. Yeah,

596
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: I forget what that guy's name is. Yeah, um, but yes,

597
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: exactly what you're talking about. The man who's just tattooed

598
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: all over it was like a lizard man. Yeah, he

599
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: had like a forked tongue. Yeah. Uh. Now. In two

600
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: thousand and five, another paper identified that there are two

601
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: different types of tattoos. There are tattoos as art, but

602
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: then there are also tattoos as adornment. Now, what they

603
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: mean here is something that's similar to jewelry and clothes. Right,

604
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: So you don't necessarily like I put my T shirt

605
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: on this morning. It's just a brown T shirt I'm

606
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: wearing today, Right, I didn't necessarily think of it as art.

607
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: It is still artifactual communication, regardless of what I think

608
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: about it. Some people are seeing this shirt and taking

609
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: something from that that I can't really control, and identifying

610
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: meaning from it. So I think what they're getting around too,

611
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: is that some tattoos are less quote artistic than others

612
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: and more intended as just being symbols. Yeah, and I

613
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: guess there's you get into a lot of gray area

614
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,959
Speaker 1: trying to decide. I think, so, yeah, it's tough. Now.

615
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: I like how you hit on the experience too, because

616
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: it's always the case when you if you show someone

617
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: a tattoo or someone or someone showing it off, generally

618
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: there there are two questions, right One it pertains to

619
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,439
Speaker 1: what it means or why you got it, and then

620
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: they want to know did it hurt, what did it

621
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 1: feel like? Um? And uh and and so it is.

622
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: It is an experience as well as an aesthetic purely

623
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: aesthetic adornment. So I always have stories of tattoos by

624
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: other people since I don't have any. But I have

625
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: two really close friends who got the same tattoo uh.

626
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: And they were very into like postmodern symbology at the time,

627
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: and so they like designed this thing themselves that was

628
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: just this kind of honestly like a nonsense symbol and

629
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: it looked sort of like a maze, and they got it.

630
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: They both got it tattooed, and then they found afterwards

631
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: that everyone was asking them what it meant, and so

632
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: they got to the point where they got so sick

633
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: of trying to explain the complexity of this, like absurdist,

634
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: data ist tattoo to strangers. Essentially that they would just

635
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: lie and they would say, Oh, it's my friends initials

636
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: he died in a car crash. Huh. Well, you know

637
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 1: that's one way, one way to handle it, and then

638
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: it kind of becomes a different story each time you

639
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: adjusted to the social setting. Yeah, exactly. All right, let's

640
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: talk about why we get them. Let's get into some

641
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: more of the psychology. Right, So the first psychological reason

642
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: that's identified as why we choose to get tattoos is

643
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: based on your identity. That makes sense, right, So they

644
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,879
Speaker 1: are usually personal traits that are materialistic, and they, as

645
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier, they established a group identity, such as

646
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: a fraternity you belong to, or military group that you

647
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,439
Speaker 1: were in, or gang membership or even sports teams. Yeah,

648
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: and then of course there's a whole range of religious

649
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 1: tattoosh and some of those get into varying levels of

650
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: magical and protective tattoos as well. So, for instance, you

651
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: might have a crucifix on your body just because you know,

652
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,959
Speaker 1: you're saying Christianity means something to you and you want

653
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: you want that part of your identity to be visible. Right. Yeah, Well, exactly.

654
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: It's sort of like, if you're putting that too in

655
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,439
Speaker 1: a visible place, right, you're announcing to the world, Hey,

656
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: I am a Christian. Are you a Christian too? We

657
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 1: have something in common now. But then you don't necessarily

658
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: think that putting the cross on your body is going

659
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: to protect you, but you could like they're just varying

660
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 1: levels of magical thinking and religiosity that come into play. Now.

661
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 1: The sort of more mundane version of this, right, that

662
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: I always like to think of is you know when

663
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: you go on vacation and you're like at a beach

664
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: or something like that, or maybe you're at the airport

665
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 1: and there's those touristy shirts, right. Like, let's say you

666
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: go to Miami and you're on your way back home

667
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: and you buy a T shirt that's like a dolphin

668
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 1: jumping out of the waves and just says Miami with

669
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 1: a big exclamation point on it, right, and you wear

670
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: that out? What is that telling the world? You're telling

671
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 1: people I've been to Miami, right, And it's essentially in

672
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: fighting other people who have been to Miami to say, hey,

673
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: I've been to Miami too, what what did you like

674
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 1: about it? Or I've never been to Miami. What's it like? Well?

675
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: And I think that comes into play, especially with individuals

676
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: who have a lot of tattoos and have sleeves and whatnot,

677
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: because you know, when you just have one tattoo, you

678
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: just you, or even just a couple, you put a

679
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: lot of thought into that one tattoo and it has

680
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: to me to mean a lot or or just represent

681
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: one aspect of your life. But when you have like

682
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,760
Speaker 1: a whole sleeve, like each little bit. I've seen people

683
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: sort of narrate their tattoos, and so each little one,

684
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: some of them, some of the little details might not

685
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: mean anything that much. It's just, hey, I went somewhere

686
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: with some friends and we got this to commemorate what happened. Uh.

687
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: But it becomes this, Uh, it's like the illustrated Man,

688
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: like they overall tell the story of that individual's life.

689
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: I had a buddy who recently got a sleeve here

690
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, and he got the ig Dristill, the tree

691
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: of life from Norse mythology, done as a full sleeve,

692
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 1: and then he had like aspects of the tree exactly

693
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: as you described, being like manifest parts of his life

694
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,760
Speaker 1: that were important to him. So it's it's a pretty

695
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: interesting one. Now. Um, in all of this, we're talking

696
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: about identity. And I found it summed up rather nicely

697
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: in an article title the Psychology of Tattoos was published

698
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: in San Diego Magazine is written by Michael R. Mentel, PhD.

699
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: And he pointed out the individuals with tattoos tend to

700
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: have a stronger sense of identity. Now, you know, there

701
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 1: are a lot of interpretations of that, and you know,

702
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: certainly identity can range from identity within a group to

703
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 1: identity outside of a group. But I think that is

704
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: an important point to drive home that identity in tattoos

705
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: or are are closely intertwined. So on a on a

706
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: very basic level, you have your identity somehow wrapped up

707
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: in this tattoo, A tattoo conserved to announce who you

708
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: are to the world. You know, and this is an

709
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: essential thing given our social species and the survival advantage

710
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: associated with acceptance within a group. So it sends that

711
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 1: message I am this, I associate with this thing, idea symbol,

712
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: our ist or ideal enough diffuse it with my body.

713
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: And you know, it's not just a band shirt that

714
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: you can take on and off. This is me. Now.

715
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: The next psychological reason why we seem to get tattoos

716
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: has to do with transformation. That's right, because in advertising,

717
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: one is putting the inner self or the ideal in

718
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,320
Speaker 1: herself on the outside. Because normally all of those cool

719
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 1: ideas and loves and wonders, they're encased within you. But

720
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,919
Speaker 1: but only with this normal human body to even hint

721
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: at it. But the tattoo puts puts it on the outside.

722
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 1: It beautifies the external with the internal. I found a

723
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: wonderful quote here. This is from Kirby Feral, PhD. Of

724
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: the University of Massachusetts in Amherst, and she put it

725
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 1: this way, springing off a discussion of roaring sports mascots

726
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: and screaming skulls as totems against impermanence and death. She said,

727
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,800
Speaker 1: for one thing, that devouring mall is open to swallow

728
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: more life, more food, energy, but also, as a tattoo,

729
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 1: more vital attention where social animals. It's how we're built. Remember,

730
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: the self is an event, not a thing. In the

731
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: neurochemical conditions of deep sleep, the self disappears. We rely

732
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: on social behavior attention to substantiate us and make us

733
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: feel real. Exile solitary confinement and social death punished by

734
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: starving the self for attention. You know, it's interesting. I

735
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: also read something by Kirby Ferrell. It seems like we

736
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: we hit upon the same source. Yeah. Uh. She wrote

737
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: for Psychology Today that tattoos modify our self esteem as

738
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: much as they modify our bodies, and she referred to

739
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: them as a prosthetic that makes up for something that

740
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 1: you feel to be missing or inadequate. It's sort of

741
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: like thinking about it as like an artificial limb. Right.

742
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: And here's another quote related to the one that you said.

743
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: She said, by putting a skull on your skin, for instance,

744
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: you and everyone who looks at you honors your control

745
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: over death. The skull insists that you are not afraid

746
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: of even your own death. If you emphasize teeth as

747
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: an images of wolfs, jaws, and fangs, the signal is

748
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 1: a threat display that should intimidate potential adversaries and pump

749
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: up you the beast's owner, turning your nervous system flight

750
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 1: into courage and fight. Pretty interesting. Yeah, and you know

751
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: this ties in nicely with the example I want to

752
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 1: bring up next for the transformative power of tattoos. So

753
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: one of my favorite tattoo traditions that I've I've read

754
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,720
Speaker 1: about and seen footage job is UH, the so called

755
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: tattoo festival in the Buddhist temple Wat bang Fra in

756
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: central Thailand's about thirty one miles or fifty kilometers west

757
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: of Bangkok. So tattoos have a deep history and Thai culture,

758
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 1: but the custom declined in the early modern period with UH,

759
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: with the upper middle class in particular looking down on it,

760
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: but traditions remain in remained in rural areas in a

761
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 1: middle lower class urban youths, tattoos function in a way

762
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: that closely aligned with the Thai emphasis emphasis on protective

763
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 1: ambulance against the spirit world. But there are also traditional

764
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: taipe tattoos that aim to protect one against physical harm,

765
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: even specific injuries including stabbings or gunshots, and these are

766
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: most popular among you know, police, soldiers and of course criminals.

767
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 1: Among these magical tattoos, you have two types. There's gaffa

768
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: or magic spells, and these are are written in the

769
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: ancient key mirror script, and then you have representations of

770
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: creatures with mythical powers, so they might be you know,

771
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: existing creatures like lions, panthers or boars or eagles, or

772
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:44,280
Speaker 1: it might be dragons or Hanuman the monkey king from

773
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: of course Hindu iconography yea. In either case, the tattoos

774
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: are administered by a traditional tattoo master, either a layperson

775
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,879
Speaker 1: or a Buddhist monk. Some tattoo artists of the lay

776
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: of variety they claim to be possessed by generally it's

777
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 1: like an Indian Hindu occultist, and they enter into a

778
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 1: trance like state and they dawn a mask. Now back

779
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: to this tattoo festival at Wat bang Fra. The tattoo

780
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: festival sprang up in the wake of tattoo master and

781
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 1: monk Longfow Poem, who died in two thousand two, but

782
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: they erected a bronze statue of him in his honor.

783
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 1: So during this festival, tattooed adherents gather, sometimes in the thousands.

784
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 1: They pay respects to the statue and they meditate, and

785
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 1: then a few individuals will enter into a self induced

786
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 1: trance and begin to act in the manner of one

787
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: of their bestial tattoos. Yeah, so they're like manifesting their

788
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 1: power animal exactly. So if they have if they have

789
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: a tiger on there. It might be, you know, a

790
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: snarling kind of behavior. If they have Hanuman, then they

791
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,280
Speaker 1: might be doing having movements that mimic the traditional dance

792
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 1: movements of of the Monkey King. But overall they act

793
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: as if possessed or in sourcefuled uh. And this this

794
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,439
Speaker 1: happens in the morning until and it keeps going until

795
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 1: around nine thirty am when the monks lead a Buddhist prayer.

796
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: Some adherents continue to frenzy at that point until the

797
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 1: monks spray them down with a garden hose uh. And

798
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: then everyone disperses and something, except for those who stick

799
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: around to receive tattoos from the monks. There's a great

800
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,720
Speaker 1: article about this that I read to get these details.

801
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,280
Speaker 1: This is from two thousand and eight titled Spirit Possession

802
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: and Tourism at Thai Festivals Compared to Study by Eric Cohen,

803
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: and he pointed out that this is one of those

804
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: events where if you're a Western tourist and you show up,

805
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: you're gonna be tolerated as an interloper. But but you know,

806
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: you're not gonna be encouraged to attend um. But but

807
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: there are individuals who do seek it out. You know,

808
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: just because of the spectacle of the thing. But I

809
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: think the whole festival is a testament to the overt

810
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 1: and or implied power that we give tattoos. Not only

811
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 1: are the ideas images and symbols to protect your body,

812
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: but those ideas become one with the body. And uh

813
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: and and you know, maybe and maybe we become one

814
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: with the sub to the tattoo. Yeah, I think there's

815
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: something to be said transformatively about the use of tattoos

816
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: as a form of self control, right. Uh. And in fact,

817
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: there's a lens that you can look at tattoos as

818
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: sort of pro social, regulated acts of communication, rather than

819
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: this idea that seems so pervasive, especially in early psychology,

820
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 1: of that you know, people who get tattoos are just

821
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: pathologically insistent on self injury and something like that. For

822
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: for people who have a transformative aspect with it, tattoos

823
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 1: are a form of controlled coping mechanisms, right. And actually,

824
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: this is an interesting stat Women are more likely than

825
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: men to choose tattoo symbols as an expression of self

826
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: identity through uniqueness and independence. So again, so it seems

827
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 1: to be more than just the act of getting the

828
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: tattoo in this. In these cases, the transformative aspect is

829
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: choosing what the symbol reflects, right, and how that's going

830
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: to change you. Well, you know, this makes me think

831
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 1: of the use of tattoos to cover up or in

832
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 1: some cases sort of adorned scars, especially surgical scars. And

833
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:10,839
Speaker 1: this is of course very prevalent in the case of

834
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: women who receives Yeah, like you see these these these

835
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,320
Speaker 1: images of women who have taken that that scar, taken

836
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 1: the absence and transformed it into into something you know,

837
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: meaningful and symbolic. Uh. And in milder cases you also

838
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: see like a purely medical tattoo where a nipple um,

839
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 1: you know, or some other feature of the skin is

840
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: repaired with tattooing. But but I think those those transformative

841
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 1: moments are the most most potent. Yeah. And so the

842
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: third psychological factor that we get to here, I think

843
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 1: is connected to the transformative nature, and this is remembrance. Right.

844
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 1: So we've actually talked about this before in episodes we've

845
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: done about palam sests and anthropodermic biblio peggy. But in

846
00:46:56,080 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: contemporary America, the meanings of tattoos can actually be possessions

847
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 1: that reflect your experiences, your memories, your feelings, or your values.

848
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: It sort of looks at the body as a living

849
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: record of your life history, right, and especially like when

850
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 1: we're talking about people who see their tattooing as a career,

851
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 1: that their body is becoming like a permanent record of

852
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: of what's happened to them in their life. Yeah, you

853
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: see people getting the names of their children, or their

854
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 1: names of their loved one, their mother, you know, various

855
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: family members engraved on their body to say like, these

856
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:31,960
Speaker 1: people are important to me and they are a part

857
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,399
Speaker 1: of name. My brother in law has his last name

858
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: tattooed on his leg in Old English, and whenever you

859
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: ask him about it, he says that it's just so

860
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: I can remember what my last name is. But it's

861
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 1: obviously supposed to be you know, remembrance of family, and

862
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 1: the family is important to him. Um. So here's a

863
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,760
Speaker 1: couple of studies that are related to the remembrance aspect.

864
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: One study from eleven used content analysis on student essays

865
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: and online blogs that were about casual tattooing adoption. What

866
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 1: they found was that the motivations manifesting through the meanings

867
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 1: of these tattoos are first of all, the act of

868
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: getting the tattoo. Second, the design of the tattoo image.

869
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: But then the motivation for people not to get tattoos

870
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 1: were actually anchored in the individual's public persona, So how

871
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 1: uh they felt like their self was perceived by other people,

872
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,879
Speaker 1: but also their private persona, which really to them meant

873
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 1: their authentic and real self. So there's a lot of

874
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 1: you know, tattoos are really like creating a lot of

875
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 1: dissonance inside you know, your identity and cognition essentially, right,

876
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: So this is like, you know, it may seem like, oh,

877
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 1: this doesn't make sense for a science podcast where you

878
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:48,720
Speaker 1: guys talking about tattoos, but there's a lot of stuff

879
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 1: going on inside our heads when we're making these decisions,

880
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 1: you know, now choosing one that also creates a negotiation

881
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:00,720
Speaker 1: between these two aspects of ourselves. A sub ancial number

882
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: of the respondents that they talked to mentioned getting tattoos

883
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: in a phase of their life when they quoted wanted

884
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 1: to rebel against conformity, right. So they found that this

885
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: is usually characterized by less attention to the meaning of

886
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 1: the design. So for instance, you go to a tattoo

887
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 1: parlor and you're like, I'll get that Tasmanian devil. Uh.

888
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: You get that tattooed, and then five years later you're like, oh,

889
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,439
Speaker 1: I really wish I didn't do that. Uh, it must

890
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 1: have been because I was rebelling or something. Right, this

891
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: is a common narrative that you hear. Yeah, I think

892
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 1: a lot a lot of tattoo parlors I've heard have

893
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: a wall of shame versus some of the in their opinions,

894
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: at least wise tattoos. Yeah. Well, it's usually to like

895
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 1: people who come in at three in the morning, like

896
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 1: completely drunk and uh. You know, I think a responsible

897
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,280
Speaker 1: tattoo studio usually won't give you a tattoo in those situations.

898
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 1: But there are plenty of those stories out there, all right,

899
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 1: you know, with varying degrees of validity. Yeah. Absolutely So,

900
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: those though, who get their tattoos for you nique creative art,

901
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 1: tend to search for a feeling of pride in their

902
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: tattoo and something that if it's visible, is going to

903
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 1: be praised. Right. Some of them get these tattoos out

904
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 1: of a desire for conformity that comes from social pressure

905
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 1: or influence. Okay, I want to put a pin on that, right,

906
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 1: Remember I talked about my mentor at the beginning, and

907
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 1: his whole thing about how a tattoo is the first

908
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 1: step towards fascism. Well, there, I can see what he's

909
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 1: talking about, right, Like the idea that some people are

910
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 1: getting tattoos out of a desire to conform to something.

911
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 1: I think he saw that. I don't think he was

912
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:39,280
Speaker 1: aware of all of these broad variety of psychological reasons

913
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 1: why people got them, but that was the one he

914
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 1: was honing in on their right with the conformity aspect,

915
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: him linking it to fascism. Oh yeah, but it also

916
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: comes back to just the social nature of humans and

917
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 1: conformity is is kind of what we do. It depends

918
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: on which group you're trying to conform. Yeah, I don't. Again,

919
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 1: I don't think I necessarily agree with him. I understand

920
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,359
Speaker 1: where he's coming from. I think it's a broader, more

921
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 1: complicated thing than that, as is often the case. Now,

922
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: there's one more study i'd like to mention here. This

923
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,399
Speaker 1: is from twiften, and they found that even though there

924
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: is independence in the choice and purchase of tattoo art,

925
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: there are usually both external and internal influences that are

926
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: related to whether somebody regretted acquiring a tattoo. Right now,

927
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,920
Speaker 1: that's either your you know, essentially your personal identity for

928
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 1: your regret, or people saying to you, geez, why did

929
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 1: you get that Tasmanian devil? Or why did you my

930
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: favorite one? Some buddies of mine used to always joke

931
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:40,359
Speaker 1: about this because it's a very common tattoo. You'd say, like, uh, hey, dude,

932
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: would you get that tattoo with a it's a skull

933
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: with like a fire for hair or something like that,

934
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: you know, like like people would go, oh, maybe I

935
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:50,359
Speaker 1: really shouldn't have gotten that skull with fire for hair.

936
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, but of course it depends how it's

937
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 1: stick fire for hair skull. But oh man, if you're

938
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: a ghostwriter fan, that's right there for you. Yeah, you know.

939
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: All right, well, let's take a one more break, and

940
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 1: when we come back, we're going to get into the

941
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 1: psychology of how others interpret tattoos. Uh And again, this

942
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 1: is gonna be uh uh an issue where it's going

943
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 1: to vary a lot depending on, you know, exactly what

944
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 1: the culture is and what the tattoo happens to be. Alright,

945
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: we're back. So now we're talking about the psychology of tattoos,

946
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 1: not from the point of view of why we get them,

947
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 1: but how other people tend to interpret them. There's been

948
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 1: a lot of research on this. Yeah, and anyone out

949
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 1: there with tattoos you can I'm sure you can relate.

950
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 1: Oh oh yeah, I bet. Now let's go back to

951
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: early psychology. I mentioned this in Passing earlier. It really

952
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 1: seemed to get tattooing wrong. I think it described tattooing

953
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: as exhibitionism and masochism, and this led many psychologists to

954
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 1: describe people who got tattoos as uninhibited and impulsive and

955
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 1: more likely to exhibit psychopaths oology. Uh. They were also

956
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: described as signs of emotional immaturity and neurotic conflicts, and

957
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 1: by the nineteen nineties there was an association of manliness

958
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,800
Speaker 1: and sexuality connected to tattoos, which I thought was interesting

959
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,800
Speaker 1: as well. I guess I can sort of picture that, um,

960
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 1: because that was right around the time when like the

961
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: people around me were starting to get tattooed. Yeah, it

962
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: gets into media representations to write like the tough biker,

963
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: the tough prisoner, or say, like the tough wrestler with

964
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: a tattoo. There were the tough athlete with a tattoo. Right, yeah,

965
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 1: So if you go way back to nineteen sixty seven, though,

966
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 1: there's an interesting paper by Isaenick and Isaenick. I'm assuming

967
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: they're either siblings or maybe they're married, but they proposed

968
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 1: an idea called stimulation theory, and the idea here is

969
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: related to extraversion and introversion of people, and the idea

970
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 1: that their products of our cortical arousal inside our brains

971
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 1: and essentially this in lunces our response to external stimuli. So,

972
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 1: for instance, if you have a high level of cortical arousal,

973
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 1: then you are more sensitive to external stimuli. That's me, Like,

974
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 1: I'm way more sensitive to external stimuli than most people.

975
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 1: And uh I especially like if there's if I'm in

976
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: like a big room with a lot of people being

977
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,240
Speaker 1: loud or something like that, Like it seems to affect

978
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: me more, right in many ways, Okay, But introverts seem

979
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 1: to be more sensitive to stimuli and seek to avoid it.

980
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:36,720
Speaker 1: So seems like I'm an introvert in n Though another

981
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 1: study came along, this is Copes and Forsyth, and they

982
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 1: tried to determine whether the extra version levels of people

983
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: with tattoos lent support to the idea of stimulation theory. Okay,

984
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 1: so how how much cortical stimulation or arousal you were

985
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:57,759
Speaker 1: actually getting was related to your basically the amount of

986
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,359
Speaker 1: tattoos that you were getting, And they found that yes,

987
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 1: actually the more tattoos that somebody gets, the higher their

988
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: level of extra version. So they tend to be extroverts

989
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 1: who are these sort of like careerst tattoo uh consumers. Now,

990
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:18,759
Speaker 1: research does show that there are personality differences between those

991
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 1: who are tattooed and those who are not, but there

992
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 1: are a few studies that investigate whether these show positive

993
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 1: indicators for people with tattoos. So, for instance, extroverts, however,

994
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: they have lower levels of cortical arousal. They tend to

995
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 1: seek external stimuli through social arousal. So one way to

996
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:38,760
Speaker 1: do that would be to get tattoos. It's an instant

997
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 1: conversation starter, right exactly. Yeah, if you're the type of

998
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 1: person who loves talking to the clerk at the grocery

999
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 1: store when you're in line, get a tattoo, write easy

1000
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 1: way to start a conversation. Me I go immediately to

1001
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: the robot area and just want to swipe my goods

1002
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: through there and get out of the store. The research, however,

1003
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: seems to be a little mixed about whether there's negative

1004
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:06,240
Speaker 1: stereotypes that are associated with tattoos and whether those negative

1005
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: stereotypes are accurate. So in two thousand and seven, there

1006
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:13,239
Speaker 1: was a German study that found that those with tattoos

1007
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 1: scored higher on a scale of extraversion, but lower on

1008
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: a scale of neuroticism. So this seems to dispel the

1009
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 1: myth of neuroticism being associated with tattoos. Another twenty twelve study,

1010
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 1: this was done in Austria and Germany, concluded that those

1011
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 1: with tattoos have a higher level of need for the

1012
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: following things uniqueness, sensation seeking, and thrill and adventure seeking.

1013
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,760
Speaker 1: But it also found that these people have lower levels

1014
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: of self esteem, they attend religious services less, and are

1015
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 1: generally less educated than individuals who don't have tattoos. So

1016
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: that seems to feed into that stereotype. But let's keep

1017
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 1: in mind this is like a small study in one

1018
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 1: country in Europe. It's not I don't think this necessarily

1019
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:06,879
Speaker 1: encapsulates the entire broad tattoo And of course, just going

1020
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: through that list, you can think of any number of

1021
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: exceptions I think in people's lives. Yeah, absolutely so. Studies

1022
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: like this one and another one I'm about to talk about,

1023
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 1: they tend to look at three of what are referred

1024
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 1: to as the Big five personality dimensions that are the

1025
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: best predictors of successful job performance. And this relates to

1026
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 1: the whole idea of like that there is discrimination against

1027
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 1: people with tattoos when you're going through the hiring process.

1028
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: These indicators are neuroticism, extra version, and conscientiousness. This this

1029
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 1: strikes me as very bizarre just from my my subjective

1030
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 1: point of view, because every job I've ever had, I

1031
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 1: don't I can't imagine that tattoos have been like a

1032
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: topic that has like dispelled somebody from getting a job

1033
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: at those places. But also, I'm a creative person. I

1034
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: tell to work in creative places like this one, and

1035
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 1: you know most people who work here have tattoos. Yeah. Well,

1036
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 1: you know, I think back at my own work experience

1037
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 1: and say, so, I was in journalism for a while,

1038
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 1: and and especially when you're doing with small town newspapers, Yeah,

1039
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 1: I can definitely see it being a factor. Yeah, they

1040
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't want you to have like a skull tattoo tattooed

1041
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 1: over your face if you're going out to like interview

1042
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,600
Speaker 1: the local sheriff. Well, I remember a guy interviewing for

1043
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 1: the the head editor position of this paper that I

1044
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 1: worked for, and he had a tattoo of an eyeball

1045
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 1: ring on his finger. Well, I mean that's all that

1046
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 1: we could see. But it was never you know, discussed.

1047
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 1: There were some other things that came up that I

1048
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 1: think disqualified him from the position. But I know that

1049
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 1: when people saw that tattoo, they were already thinking, like,

1050
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 1: this guy is gonna be the face of the company

1051
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:53,880
Speaker 1: dealing with people. Everybody's going to see that eyeball tattoo, Like,

1052
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 1: what is what does that mean for this small town newspaper. Um.

1053
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that's that's right, but well, it

1054
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 1: gets back to what I was saying earlier that human

1055
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 1: beings judge one another based on artifactual communication. It's just

1056
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:11,760
Speaker 1: unfortunately the way we work. Another study related to this

1057
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 1: about the whole job thing comes from twenty sixteen, just

1058
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 1: last year. It looked at the differences using those same

1059
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 1: five personality traits, uh, those that are considered critical to

1060
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 1: successful employees in the workforce. And the hypothesis of this

1061
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 1: study was that people with tattoos would actually show higher

1062
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 1: levels of conscientiousness and extra version and lower levels of neuroticism.

1063
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 1: And what they actually found was that there weren't a

1064
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 1: lot of statistical changes between the two other than a

1065
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:44,479
Speaker 1: very slight trend towards extra version. Okay, so despite all

1066
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 1: that stuff about simulation theory and cortical arousal, you know,

1067
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 1: some of these studies don't seem to support that. The

1068
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 1: reading on this last study, though, was that tattooed individuals

1069
00:59:55,600 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 1: maybe better employees than was previously believed. Right as specially

1070
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 1: since extra virgin has been found to be a critical

1071
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 1: indicator of people who are successful in their job performance.

1072
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 1: So this really calls into question how those who are

1073
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 1: judging people with tattoos about whether or not they would

1074
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 1: be good employees, how they how they consider that, and

1075
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 1: what they think that actually means versus what it seems

1076
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: to actually say about personality traits. Plus it, we just

1077
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 1: seem to me that if an individual has a lot

1078
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:31,439
Speaker 1: of tattoos, I mean, those things aren't cheap. Yeah, yeah,

1079
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 1: I remember, I had a buddy. You'll like this because

1080
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 1: you're a tool fan. I had a buddy who didn't

1081
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 1: have a lot of money, and he spent like everything

1082
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 1: in his bank account to get that same tattoo that

1083
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:45,840
Speaker 1: Maynard James Keenan tattoos. Yeah, he had his entire spinal

1084
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:50,439
Speaker 1: cord traced, uh, and he didn't like one go too

1085
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,240
Speaker 1: And it was like I remember seeing him afterwards, and

1086
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 1: he was like like weak from the loss of blood

1087
01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 1: and like wanting to eat, you know, like a lot

1088
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 1: of food at that time. But he was the kind

1089
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 1: of guy who had essentially resigned himself like I'm never

1090
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 1: gonna work in like an office setting or anything like that,

1091
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:10,919
Speaker 1: so I might as well get tattoos on my neck

1092
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 1: or on my hands or whatever, you know. Well, of course,

1093
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 1: the the final frontier of tattooing and the ultimate test

1094
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 1: of the social acceptance of tattooing is probably the facial

1095
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 1: tattoo or any near face tattoo, you know, also bringing

1096
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 1: in neck tattoos. Yeah. Now I have two areas I

1097
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 1: want to touch on here. But the first test to

1098
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 1: do with probably the most famous facial tattoo custom, the

1099
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 1: to moco of the Maori people. Uh. These were quite

1100
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 1: prominent in pre colonial Maori culture, but there's been a

1101
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 1: big resurgence since the nineteen nineties, but for the most part,

1102
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 1: even tattoo accepting cultures, you know, they're not going to

1103
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 1: be that accepting of neck and facial tattoos. Now among

1104
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: the Maori, it's a rite of passage. It's it's a

1105
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 1: lot deeper than near esthetics. Maori tattoo traditionally does not

1106
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 1: involve the use of needles rather than already used knives

1107
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:05,200
Speaker 1: and chisels made from shark's teeth, sharpened bone or sharp stone.

1108
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 1: And the ink two is pretty fascinating. The black was

1109
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 1: made from burnt wood. That's where they would give their carbon.

1110
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 1: Lighter pigments came from fungus infected caterpillars or burnt gum. Wow. Now,

1111
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 1: men traditionally had full facial tattoos. Women had chin, lip

1112
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 1: and nostrils. But if you had them, it was a

1113
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:27,040
Speaker 1: sign of high social rank. Again bringing in that communication

1114
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 1: and you already you already touched on the hereditary information

1115
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 1: that is often present in those facial tattoos. Uh. The

1116
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 1: way it would work is the left side is generally

1117
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:38,960
Speaker 1: the father's side and the right side of the mothers.

1118
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 1: So if only one side of the family had social rank.

1119
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 1: You might only have a half facial tattoo. That's really interesting. Okay,

1120
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. So there's you know, so there's

1121
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 1: meaning when you look at it. You know, there's information

1122
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 1: to be imparted. People might look at a Maori tattoo

1123
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 1: and they think, oh, it's just some fearsome face meant

1124
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: to intimidate somebody. But there's a lot more to I

1125
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 1: look to an older source on this from a two

1126
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:08,560
Speaker 1: thousand four article titled Wearing Moco Maori Facial Marking in

1127
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 1: Today's World from the University of Waikato in New Zealand,

1128
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 1: and they pointed out that a number of strides have

1129
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 1: been made in acceptance of moco um among the Maori

1130
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 1: by non Maori people, but the despite increased understanding of

1131
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 1: the tattoos and establishment of this as a you know,

1132
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 1: a positive cultural marking, they're still prejudice as there always was. Now.

1133
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 1: On the extreme, the authors point out, there are those

1134
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,400
Speaker 1: who passed judgments on economic status and or mental health

1135
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 1: when they see such a tattoo. With others, there's this,

1136
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 1: you know, weird mix of acceptance and stereotyping. Here's a

1137
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 1: particularly telling quote, uh from from a Maori with the

1138
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 1: traditional tattoos from the article quote, I get a lot

1139
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 1: of good response from Paquia. That's those a non Maori people.

1140
01:03:55,400 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 1: A lot of them go to me and say, gee,

1141
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:00,959
Speaker 1: that's beautiful, well balanced, and there's not too much. That's

1142
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 1: what they're saying. Some moco you can't see the person,

1143
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 1: you can't see the face. But with mine, you can

1144
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 1: see my face, you can see who I am, And

1145
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 1: I think that's see who I am. Things rather telling,

1146
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 1: because it's kind of a misunderstanding of what the tattoo is.

1147
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:17,680
Speaker 1: We're really most tattoos are bart about you. You're communicating

1148
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:21,920
Speaker 1: who you are. It's about identity. Yeah. Now that being said,

1149
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:25,680
Speaker 1: it is important to note that a facial tattoo, I

1150
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:28,240
Speaker 1: mean it is on your face. It's on the facial

1151
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 1: communication array that you use to communicate with other people.

1152
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:33,440
Speaker 1: If you're making eye contact with people, you're talking with

1153
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:36,280
Speaker 1: people who have this range of facial expressions and micro

1154
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:41,280
Speaker 1: expressions that you're utilizing to communicate with someone. So you

1155
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 1: have to ask, well, to what extent does a tattoo

1156
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:48,840
Speaker 1: like that interfere or augment your just basic communication. Well,

1157
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 1: I found a really cool study there's a two thousand

1158
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 1: fifteen study from the University of Arizona titled evidence of

1159
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 1: negative implicit attitudes towards invisive individuals with a tattoo near

1160
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 1: the face. So wasn't a full blown facial tattoo, but

1161
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:03,920
Speaker 1: you know, they're looking at near facial tattoos. So the

1162
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 1: what the way it was always established for me, even

1163
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:09,160
Speaker 1: with my friends who were getting tattoos as we were

1164
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 1: growing up, was if you chose to get a tattoo

1165
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 1: on or near your face, you were essentially looking at

1166
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 1: either working outdoors for the rest of your life or

1167
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 1: working in the back part of a restaurant. H yeah,

1168
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 1: and I think that stigmat I always felt like that

1169
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:29,600
Speaker 1: was unfair obviously, But so that what's the research, Okay.

1170
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 1: So what they did is that they looked into this

1171
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 1: through a three different studies, okay, three different experiments, and

1172
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:39,120
Speaker 1: they found the test subjects tended to hold negative associations

1173
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:42,400
Speaker 1: towards people with near facial tattoos. And then it wasn't

1174
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 1: an issue of asymmetrical tattoo interrupting visual processing, So that

1175
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:49,120
Speaker 1: was that was one concern. The idea like, oh, well,

1176
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:51,320
Speaker 1: you if you have a neck tattoo on one side

1177
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 1: of your neck. Is that just throwing off people's just

1178
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 1: perception of your face? And they said that that facial recognition. Yeah,

1179
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 1: and they said that I did not seem to be

1180
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 1: the case. Um, I wonder how that works on facial

1181
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:08,000
Speaker 1: recognition software. Uh, there there are some studies out there

1182
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 1: about it. We didn't have time to go into it

1183
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:11,640
Speaker 1: for this episode, but there are some studies that look

1184
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 1: at at facial recognition software and tattoos. That's important to

1185
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 1: remember as Big Brother takes us over, we should all

1186
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:20,960
Speaker 1: get face tattoos. Now. They did find that a couple

1187
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 1: of things did help the individual's perception and help positive

1188
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:30,920
Speaker 1: perception of near facial tattoos, either higher intelligence on the

1189
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:34,680
Speaker 1: part of the perceiver or quote low external motivation to

1190
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 1: respond with prejudice, So these perceivers exhibited lower implicit prejudice.

1191
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 1: It also helped if the perceiver themselves had a tattoo

1192
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 1: and h the exact nature of that the tattoo near

1193
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 1: the face matter. So is it tribal? Is it a

1194
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:53,479
Speaker 1: quote unquote positive image? Do you remember we talked about

1195
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 1: this maybe a year or so ago on the show.

1196
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 1: I think I can't remember if you've read this or

1197
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 1: not the comic book series King's City by and Graham. No,

1198
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 1: I haven't read that one. H He that guy Brandon

1199
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,439
Speaker 1: Graham has a tattoo of an elephant on his neck.

1200
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:09,360
Speaker 1: That's pretty prominent. But so I I would think in

1201
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:12,920
Speaker 1: this situation, like the elephant is a fairly non threatening

1202
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 1: kind of you know, thing that doesn't seem to necessarily

1203
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:20,840
Speaker 1: represent any kind of violent or aggressive identity, right, Yeah,

1204
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 1: Like that would be an example of a positive or

1205
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 1: at least a mundane tattoo. Likewise, a heart or you know,

1206
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:30,919
Speaker 1: the name of someone's child like that would I feel

1207
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:34,360
Speaker 1: like that would also be a positive or mundane use. However,

1208
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 1: it's a tattoo of, say, you know, like a dagger

1209
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 1: cutting your throat or was it Richard Rowntree that supposedly

1210
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:43,040
Speaker 1: had one that was a dotted line and it said

1211
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 1: cut on the dotted line? Is that right? I've never

1212
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:48,240
Speaker 1: heard that. I believe that is the case. But if

1213
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:51,640
Speaker 1: that's still with fire for hair, right, those kind of

1214
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 1: tattoos would be more likely to be perceived as as

1215
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:56,880
Speaker 1: negative by the individual. And then you have all these

1216
01:07:56,880 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 1: issues of masculinity and femininity as well, which we touched

1217
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 1: on as well, so again you can't just look at

1218
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 1: it in complete isolation. But even still, the negative trends

1219
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:09,800
Speaker 1: persisted in the experiments, perhaps due in large part two

1220
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:13,440
Speaker 1: negative portrayals of individuals with facial tattoos or near facial

1221
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:17,200
Speaker 1: tattoos in media, even if you yourself have a number

1222
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:19,800
Speaker 1: of tattoos. But I I want to say this is

1223
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:22,160
Speaker 1: related to the episode we did a couple of years

1224
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 1: ago about Halloween and in clothes cognition. I want to

1225
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:30,519
Speaker 1: say that Halloween costumes of like being a criminal or

1226
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:34,400
Speaker 1: a prisoner come with like fake tattoos for your face. Yeah,

1227
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 1: I seem to remember that. Yeah, that that sounds right.

1228
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:38,880
Speaker 1: You know, I think there are there are other examples

1229
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,640
Speaker 1: to where they'll be like ninja costumes to come with

1230
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 1: a dragon tattoo. But um, yeah, I mean it's certainly

1231
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 1: when you're get to dealing with Halloween costumes, you're dealing

1232
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: with in clothed cognition. You're you're you're changing the way

1233
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:54,800
Speaker 1: you think about yourself and how others will interpret you

1234
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:57,960
Speaker 1: with the way that you're dressed. And uh, and tattoos

1235
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 1: are in a large part in another version of if

1236
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 1: you're interested in that episode and Halloween's coming up, So

1237
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 1: you go back into our archives at stuff to Blow

1238
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:08,120
Speaker 1: your Mind dot com you can find that one. Yeah,

1239
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:09,599
Speaker 1: and I'll try to link to it on the landing

1240
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 1: page for this episode's Stuff to Blow your Mind dot

1241
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 1: com as well. So we would love to hear from

1242
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:18,760
Speaker 1: our listeners who have tattoos, and I'm sure many of

1243
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 1: you have strong opinions about the research we just presented. Uh,

1244
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:25,280
Speaker 1: you know, do you agree with what it says about

1245
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:27,640
Speaker 1: why people get tattoos? Do you agree with what it

1246
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:31,920
Speaker 1: says about how people interpret tattoos? Let us know. You

1247
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 1: can get in touch with us on Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler,

1248
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 1: and Instagram. That's right, and again that discussion module group

1249
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:41,800
Speaker 1: on Facebook. That's a great way if you want to

1250
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:45,719
Speaker 1: share your tattoo and your tattoo story with other listeners

1251
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:47,880
Speaker 1: and UH and your host here. But if you want

1252
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:50,160
Speaker 1: to get in touch with us directly, you shoot us

1253
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:52,719
Speaker 1: an email and blow the mind and how stuff Works

1254
01:09:52,920 --> 01:10:05,799
Speaker 1: dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics.

1255
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 1: Is it how stuff Works dot com