1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Penel podcast. I'm Paul swing you. 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Brahma Waits. Each day 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: we bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: you and your money. Whether at the grocery store or 5 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: the trading floor. Find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple 6 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as 7 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com. We have talked about President Trump's 8 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: what he calls his biggest trade negotiation achievement to date, 9 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 1: which is the U S m c A that is 10 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: the new NAFTA. But interestingly, the largest federation of unions 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: in the United States is going to oppose this deal 12 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,599 Speaker 1: if there is an early vote called Joining us now 13 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: to talk about that and in general about the backdrop 14 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: for labor as Richard Trumka, president of the a f 15 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: l c I, oh, thank you so much for being 16 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: with us. So let's start with the U S m 17 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: c A trade agreement. Why won't the a f l 18 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: c I O support this this treaty if an early 19 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: vote is pursued. Well, first of all, the labor movement 20 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:10,119 Speaker 1: is committed to ensuring that trade union deals benefit working people. 21 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: That requires you have strong labor provisions and strong enforcement provisions. 22 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: In order for this to work, Mexico has to abandon 23 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:24,639 Speaker 1: its low wage model, and it requires Mexico to change 24 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: its laws, enforce its laws, and then have the resources 25 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: necessary and the will necessary to do that. If we're 26 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: forced to vote on NAP on the new NAFTA before 27 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 1: they have changed their laws, effectively put them in place, 28 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: and started to enforce them, we would have no choice 29 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: but to impose them because the old system, the old 30 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: low wage model of such jobs out of the United States, 31 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: would remain in place. So the agreement itself says they 32 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: have to be in place first. We don't want to 33 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: premature vote. If we're forced to, we would have to 34 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: oppose a that point. So, Richard, you talk about greater enforcement, 35 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: does that mean that the negotiations of the agreement need 36 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: to be opened back up the There are a number 37 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: of ways to do enforcement. In fact, the agreement so 38 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: far Paul could be looked at as having less enforcement 39 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: than previous agreements. And here's how under the current system, 40 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: you when of two countries have a dispute, they in panel, 41 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: they go to a mechanism that they go through. They 42 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: try to solve it. If they can't, they put together 43 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: a panel. That panel acts like an arbitrator. That arbitrator 44 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: makes a decision that is binding on them the new law, 45 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: the new negotiated. When abandoned those panels, either party has 46 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: the ability to block the paneling of those of the 47 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: panel and therefore block any mechanism. There's no no way 48 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: to enforce the Act at that point or the trade 49 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: agreement at that point, so it has to be changed. 50 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: You can do some of it in the implementing language. Uh. 51 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: And we've been told a lot of that will be done, 52 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: although we haven't seen it yet to be able to 53 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: evaluate it. If he didn't, it isn't done. It isn't changed. Uh. 54 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: And the ability to force the agreement isn't there. It's 55 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: a useless agreement and it will actually be worse than 56 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: the current When do we have Richard Trump cut from 57 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: your perspective? Is representing thousands of workers out there? Do 58 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: you think President Trump's policies have been good in general 59 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: for them? You know, if you look at things, uh objectively, 60 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: some of the stuff he's done, you could say that 61 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: he's made a lot of our members lives harder. You know, 62 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: he denied paychecks the federal workforce while he made him work. 63 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: He jammed through a corporate tax cut on the backs 64 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: of working people that encourages further outsourcing and automation. Uh. 65 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: If you look at that, he's made our our pockets 66 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,119 Speaker 1: fly her. He just changed the rule that took over 67 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: time away from over two million people, and he's made 68 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: our jobs more dangerous. He slashed the number of safety regulations, 69 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: He slashed the number of OCEHA inspectors. Just last month, 70 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: he gutted the rule requiring employers to submit detailed reports 71 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: on all workplace injuries. And so you can make the 72 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: case that workers along those lines are worse off. We'll 73 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: have my richard. As it relates to China, are you 74 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: satisfied with the President's trade stance towards China or do 75 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: you have any concerns? Well, you know, first of all, 76 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: I paud the president for being willing to take trade 77 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: on and actually talk about changing after that. That's an 78 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: important step. So I give him credit for that. I 79 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 1: also give him credit for for looking at China. You know, 80 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: trade relationships are an opportunity really to strengthen democracies, to 81 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: stimulate economies, and to uplift the well being a people 82 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: here around the world. But they can also be used 83 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: the other way to harm people and to undermine those rights. UH. 84 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 1: And right now China has been doing that. We have 85 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: the worst deficit, the largest deficite we've ever had in 86 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: the world, uh four hundred and nineteen billion dollars in 87 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: growing uh. And so looking at that relationship, trying to 88 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: change it is very very important, and we'll continue to 89 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: work with the administration try to make sure that that 90 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: relationship gets right it because currently it's off course Richard, 91 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: a lot of people say there has been too much 92 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: emphasis placed on trade as the sort of villain here 93 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: in terms of people losing their jobs, and that really 94 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: the issue is automation. Uh. The lot of jobs previously 95 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: that we're unionized and UH and that that gave people 96 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: decent salaries are now eliminated through automation. How are you, 97 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: as the head of the a f l c I O, 98 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: addressing that, Well, we have a committee on the Future 99 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: of Work that looks at not only automation, but artificial intelligence, 100 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,679 Speaker 1: robotics and everything else that goes along with it changing 101 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: our ways. But you have to understand one thing, I 102 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 1: don't except your original premise, because by design, NAPTA distorted 103 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: the power relationships in favor of global employers over workers. 104 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 1: It weakened workers bargaining power, and it encouraged the d 105 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:32,799 Speaker 1: industrialization of the US economy. UH. Those that caused wage 106 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: stagnation that continues to this very day. It's a tandem. 107 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: You can't just say it's only trade, but trade is 108 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: a significant portion of wage stagnation and job loss. Automation 109 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: actually can be a job creator in the future if 110 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 1: we do things right. We're changing our apprentice programs to 111 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: train our people are members for the jobs of the future. 112 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: We're working with universities like Carnegie Mellon and m I 113 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: T the leaders in artificial intelligence, robotics, UH and New 114 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: the Thing the jobs of the future, to get in 115 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: front of that curve so that we figure out how 116 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: those things affect people. Here's a simple question, Lisa, Uh. 117 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: Right now, we have a system that is leaving more 118 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: and more and more people behind inequalities. Growing, artificial intelligence, robotics, 119 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: all the automation, all of those things can accelerate that 120 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: process if it's not done right. And what happens when 121 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: a system no longer can provide a rising standard of 122 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: living from majority of its citizens, a growing majority of existence. 123 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: What happens to that system, It's actually a threat to 124 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: democracy itself, and so we're trying to get in front 125 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: of it, harness it, and make sure that communities, people 126 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: in the community benefit from automation and not just a 127 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: very few people at the very top. Richard Trumpka, thank 128 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: you so much. Richard Trumpka, President at the a f 129 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: l C i OH based on Washington, d C. Joining 130 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: us to discuss the new NAFTA, which is winding its 131 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: way through the congressional approval process. The U. S Treasury 132 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: curve today inverts for the first time since two thousand seven. 133 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: The move follows FED policy shift earlier in the week, 134 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: as well as gloomier economic data, particularly out of Europe today. 135 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: To help us kind of wind through this issue, we 136 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: have Matt Egan. Matt is a portfolio manager and co 137 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: head of the full Discretion team at Loomas Sales and 138 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: Companies based in Boston, but Matt joins us in our 139 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. Matt, welcome to Bloomberg. Thank you. 140 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: What do you make of this yield curve? News today? 141 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 1: A bit surprising to me. I think there's a lot 142 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: of pessimism built into the Yeld curve. UM. You know, 143 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: clearly the data has been weak, UM, and you know, 144 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: there's definitely been centered in the manufacturing side of the 145 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: of the global economy. And I guess in some ways 146 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: it's not too surprising because there's been a lot of 147 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: distortions thrown into that side of the economy through the 148 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: trade war that being in last year. And it's not 149 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: surprising it's affecting places like Germany, you know, more because 150 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 1: they feed into that, you know, that manufacturing cycle on 151 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 1: the earliest stages. So what does it say to you 152 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: the fact that the Fed is holding off on rate 153 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 1: hikes is not enough to give people a boost in 154 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: terms of their longer inflation expectations and their longer term 155 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: growth expectations. This is really fascinating. I think the FED 156 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: is um paying closer attention to this or opening this 157 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,719 Speaker 1: up for broader dialogue. And I was UM watching. I mean, 158 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: everybody probably pays attention to the Monetary Policy Forum in Farry, right, 159 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: everybody's got down on their calendar, but it came out 160 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: nine year old has so, but I think what was 161 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: interesting is they came out pretty forcefully. We're talking about, hey, 162 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: we're gonna really take a look at our monetary policy 163 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: and our ability to both fight recessions and drive inflation. 164 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: And they started talking about, uh, you know, concepts like 165 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: average inflation targeting. And I think that there's a good 166 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: chance over the next year or so where they some 167 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 1: somehow adopt some formal policy revolving around that too, because 168 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: I think, I mean, to a certain extent, this is 169 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: what their m O has been, right, They've been going 170 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: lower for longer, trying to get inflation up. They've talked 171 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: about it. In some ways, you could say they haven't 172 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: been successful. It's been a failure, and so I think 173 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: they're they're sensitive to that. And um, you know, it's 174 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: an open question whether a central bank can really drive 175 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: up inflation or not. I mean, Japan has been trying 176 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: to do this for years. Uh so, but there's a 177 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: feeling that they have to do something, and I think 178 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: that it it has broader implications though well I'm not 179 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: I'm fixed income expert like Lisa. However, I do know 180 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: that an inverted yield curve oftentimes suggests a recession. Do 181 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: you think that now is a higher probability than maybe 182 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 1: three to six months ago. It is certainly a higher probability. 183 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: I think that the inversion of the yield curve means 184 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: less than it used to when it when it was 185 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: in um what it would mean before. I think because 186 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 1: of the unusual nature of monetary policy and how it's 187 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: being affected. Uh, but relative to say three or four 188 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 1: months ago, is clearly that you know, the probability recession 189 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: has risen. I personally think that if I had to 190 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: guess the net next rate hike, it's going to be 191 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: up rather than down, because I think this is similar 192 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: to two thousands fifteen sixteen, a mid cycle correction. Uh. 193 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: It's mainly coming through the inventory channels, and you know, 194 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: this may be a leap, but I think we're going 195 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 1: to see it bottoming here. Problem with that is the 196 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: market is looking at the data and hasn't inflected up yet, 197 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: and that's disconcerting. So as a fixed income investor, is 198 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: this a good time to go into risk your corporate 199 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: debt considering the fact that the FED is backstopping the 200 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: market and that you think that there's over that there's 201 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: too much pessimism baked into the into markets. Right now. 202 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: I do. I think that there is too much pessimism 203 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: baked into concerns about the economy. I think, uh my, 204 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: my mantra recently has been bad news is good news 205 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: for risky assets to the extent that it keeps central 206 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: bankers on the sidelines. And that still holds true even today, 207 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: even given how much stimulus and how long there are 208 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: already has been zero rates. It holds true today. Uh 209 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: And and I think, um, you know, when when you 210 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: think of what usually would drive our recession or or 211 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: an unwind, and say that the credit market, it will 212 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: talk about high yield and things like that, it's usually 213 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: the FED raining on everybody's parade, right tightening policy, And 214 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: they're far from I mean, it depends on you know, 215 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: how you perceive that, but I would say they are 216 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: certainly not tight. And so I think that based on 217 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: the way the FED is kind of approaching things, this 218 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: new regime in central bank monetary policy, you know, being 219 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,839 Speaker 1: so close to the zero zero lower bound, the surprise 220 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: might be that the expansion lasts longer than people people 221 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 1: really think it. I think it can so just between 222 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: investment grade and hi yield just right now, How how 223 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: are you allocated. So I'm pretty sanguine on on high yield. 224 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: You know what, fundamentally what drives hi yield risk premiums 225 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 1: is default risk through the cycle, and as far as 226 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: we can look at look out into the future, over 227 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: the next twelve months or so, the faults are going 228 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: to stay low and spread. You know, it's surprisingly like 229 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: even though spreads seemed tight, they're right on the screws 230 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: for where they should be in terms of the premium 231 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: that you should earn. Matt Igan, we continue to listen 232 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: to your conversation. We're excited to continue to listen to 233 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: your conversation on real yield The Bloomber Television Show today 234 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: at twelve thirty Eastern time. Eader Today Matt Egan, portfolio 235 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: manager and cohead of Loomis Sales Full Discretion Team. Really 236 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: interesting to get some perspective. Perhaps there is too much 237 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: pessimism baked into markets at a time when there really 238 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: isn't an evidence that we're super close to a recession 239 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: or an uptick in uh in default. The pain just 240 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: continues in Germany's manufacturing sector. Really disappointing data today which 241 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: is sending bond yields lower across the world German bond 242 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: yields UH ensuring in ten years yields now negative for 243 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: the first time since two thousands sixteen. Joining us out 244 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: to discuss h is Marcus Ashworth, Bloomberg opinion columnist covering 245 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: the European markets, joining us from our London studios. So Marcus, 246 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: just give us a sense of why this particular data 247 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: point was so important from markets. Well, in some senses, 248 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: I'm not sure it's quite as interesting as perhaps people 249 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: think it is, because this is a continuation of a 250 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: trend when a trend was expected to reverse. In a sense, 251 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: it's surprising because people thought we'd seen the bottom or 252 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: close to the bottom. The signs out of China, signs 253 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: out of other other aspects, indeed services and wages, which 254 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: suggest the German economy is doing pretty well. Um, and 255 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: that the whole bad news from last year of the 256 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: diesel emissions, the rhine level being too low, and again 257 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: indeed China had sort of played out. So it is disappointing. 258 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: But then sentiment, sentiment, and this is then the day. 259 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: This is what it is. It's a person managers survey, 260 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: it's an expectation. Uh. But slightly more concerning is that 261 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: that that France has reversed, but services aren't doing too badly, 262 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: which is the largest share of the economy. So I 263 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: think what everyone's realized that everyone was hoping and banking 264 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: on this, and we've had a of us spit the 265 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: dummy moment where everyone's gone, bunt yields won't go below zero, 266 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: will they, and everyone's sort of reverse. We've also got 267 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: this China Italy talks going on at the moment that's 268 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: causing a few bits of nervousness. And much more importantly 269 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: actually is looked to the States, look to the US. 270 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: The U s yields are dropping and therefore there's less 271 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: excuse to defend even indeed people were that level of 272 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: positive tenure bunt yields. So the combination all this, I 273 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: wouldn't read too much into that one particle number is 274 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I think the US move is probably 275 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: here actually more important. So Marcos, you mentioned France, just 276 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: give us an update what's going on there, because it 277 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: is not just Germany. No, um, well, France has had 278 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: this is La jone, there's yellow vests, h problems, should 279 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: we say, which is morph into more of a problem. 280 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: It's become it's got out of hand. It's turning into 281 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: much more of a left wing than allegedly initially right 282 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: wing movement. But the point is that it's not going away, 283 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: and we have ongoing every weekend. We have real problems 284 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: here and it's really hitting confidence in France and clearly 285 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: also France, which is far less dependent on China. Per se. 286 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: It's based implicity say that Germany's dependent on China, but 287 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: certainly they're less dependent and they are, you know, looking 288 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 1: at different errors and therefore we're showing this is the 289 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: global manufacturing slowdown is not backing away. Both France and 290 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: Germany are very alliance on orders for their manufacturing across 291 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 1: the world. And it's a sign that growth everywhere is 292 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 1: dipping and that that has to surprised people because people 293 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: had expected a bit of a bounce this month and 294 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: doesn't look like we're getting it just yet. Anyway, what 295 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: does this mean for the ECBAT Can they raise rates ever? Again? 296 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: If you speak to anyone how you say, I mean, 297 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: I used to help you, and you know I always 298 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: used to say to you that that the easy people 299 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: will never raise rates in my lifetime, and certainly I'm 300 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 1: talking about my children's are posting my grandchildren's life done now, 301 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 1: so you know, no, of course they can't. And the 302 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: thing is they try bless them to up constantly leasing 303 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: with all the right reasons, just a year too late. 304 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: They've done it in twenty seventeen. Everyone has sort of 305 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: backed it, but they waited because everything has to pan out. 306 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: By the time they waited, the cycler turned and they're 307 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 1: looking rather foolish at the moment. The point is that 308 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: they also try to preempt by getting some extra cheap 309 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 1: super bank funding. But then the media music that that 310 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: the rates going to raise as much as forty maybe 311 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: even fifty basis points for banks funding themselves previously, and 312 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 1: they had the reverse effects. So they try to be 313 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: dovish and end up being having the reverse effects. So 314 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: they are stump. But look, the reason why we're still 315 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: debating this is because the ECB is not the problem. 316 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: It's a lack of fiscal response in Europe. The monitor 317 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 1: response is played out. They try to tighten or stop 318 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: being so dovish is the correct way of putting it, 319 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: and still they have to keep on pumping money in 320 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: the banks, pumping money. Ever, you know, they haven't got 321 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: rid of their problems. They didn't do tarp or tell 322 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: for whole after different things, and they're left as bad 323 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: as they were five years ago. So Marcus, let's just 324 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 1: stay in Germany for a moment, real quickly. What's the 325 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 1: latest on Deutsche Bank. I know they're out some news 326 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: saying hey, we're going to start growing again, But really 327 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: I think what's going on there? And is it the 328 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,199 Speaker 1: commerce deal almost a fitter complete? Well, you know it is, 329 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 1: and well and this is this is what funny is 330 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 1: not the right right word here because it's very unfunny. 331 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: But you know, Ireland essentially got bankrupted by the sense 332 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: that they had to collapse their banks, Greece likewise, Cyprus likewise, 333 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: Italy clearly ongoing. And yet it seems Germany, when it 334 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: comes to Germany, they can they can beat out their 335 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: own two banks. These are two drunks being lashed together 336 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: to try and stay standing. And and and it's not 337 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: a good not a good look. And I think that 338 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: the you know, Deutsche Bank has got a whole world 339 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: of level three as an unmarked remarkable assets and a 340 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: vaster of the book which is beyond the size of 341 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: all comprehension comments Bank has got huge positions in Italian bonds, 342 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 1: and both of them have got a over competitive banking 343 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 1: market domestic too many branch is too much toff, not 344 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: enough capital, no chance of making And the keyword here 345 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: is profit ever on their business models and lumping together. Yes, 346 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: to keep going for a bit longer, but it doesn't 347 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: solve anyone's problems. Wow, that is a stark review of 348 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: German banking. But you know, I think it's probably pretty 349 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: spot on because I think not and shared by many 350 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 1: people and shared by many people. It's you know, you 351 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: put two bad banks together, what do you have? Maybe 352 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 1: you know one bigger bad bank. Well, there was a 353 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: conference earlier this week in Boston, Massachusetts. Not an investor 354 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: conference per se, but a conference entitled Inside Quantum Technologies. 355 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: This is the first conference dedicated to the business of 356 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: quantum computing, quantum cryptography, and quantum sensors. To get a 357 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: sense of all that quantum stuff, and all that stuff means. 358 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: Let's welcome our guess, Alan Meckler. Allen is a managing 359 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: partner of assam Off Ventures. He joins us in our 360 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: bloom Brick Interactive Brooker Studio. Alan, thank you so much. 361 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: Can you just define briefly what quantum technology is for 362 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: for me at least, and I think our audience that 363 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,719 Speaker 1: that's actually quite hard to do. In a few words, 364 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: I first saw, I'm not a scientist or a technologist. 365 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: I've just been good at spotting trends and doing shows 366 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: on them. But essentially, if you a lot of people, 367 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: I'm sure only and listening, I've heard of super computing, 368 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: and this would uh, quantum computing would make super computing 369 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: look like stone age in terms of the speed and 370 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: the rapidity of and and and the and the depth 371 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: of of what it can solve and um. It has 372 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 1: huge ramifications for all kinds of security, cybersecurity, uh, and 373 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: the threat to being able if and getting into the 374 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 1: wrong hands, being able to open up bank counts, and 375 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: all kinds of things. All Right, so let's talk about 376 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: some of the practical applications of this incredibly abstract concept, 377 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: because there are incredibly practical applications, from three D printing 378 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: to some of the pharmaceutical advancements. I want to talk 379 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: about three D printing in particular, because a lot of 380 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: people were expecting that everyone would have a three D 381 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 1: printer in their home, they would print their chocolate bars, 382 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: they would print their chairs, they would print their you 383 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: know tables. How much has three D printing actually gained 384 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: traction and wear? Three D printing most is most significant 385 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: in uh AN actual manufacturing. There was a theory and 386 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,719 Speaker 1: a lot of companies went out of business that there 387 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: would be three D printer in every home, maybe up 388 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: through two thousand, fifteen or sixteen. But the real benefit 389 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 1: of it is and and and the real power and 390 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: and where the money is being made is very expensive 391 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: three D printers several hundred thousand to a million dollars 392 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 1: that print in medals, and and and and other materials, 393 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: but are revolutionizing the way certain types of manufacturing are 394 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: taking place. For example, probably within four or five years, 395 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: fifty percent of every jet engine will be three D printed. 396 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: There are a lot of reasons what we could go 397 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: into why that is. But you can make it more efficiently, 398 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: you can make it lighter, you can make it faster 399 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: and less expensively than traditional manufacturing ways. So we talked 400 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: about some of the practical applications of quantum computing and technologies. 401 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: What are some of the technology who are some of 402 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: the technology companies that are really leading the way here, 403 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: What are the names. Again, it's very important for listeners 404 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: to know that there is no such thing yet as 405 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: a quantum computer. And there's a new term that I 406 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: think you're going to hear pretty soon called uh why 407 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: why to Q if you remember why two K, which 408 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: is years to quantum and we're probably a ten year 409 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: countdown to getting quantum computers. There is a company called 410 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: d Wave that has a version of a quantum computer. 411 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 1: But uh. At the show we just had inside Quantum 412 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: Technology in Boston, we had many speakers, we had thirty two. 413 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: But for example, IBM has now something called IBM Q. 414 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: They've set up a whole division just to delve into 415 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: being hopefully one of the big players. Microsoft was there too, 416 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: and they've set up their own initiative. And their speaker, 417 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: who is in charge of business development for quantum computing, 418 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: a fellow named Ben Porter. He was saying that they're 419 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: going to concentrate on AI, financial services and chemistry, and 420 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: and they're linking up with a whole bunch of universities. 421 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: A lot of the research, much like my early days 422 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: in the Internet, is coming out of research at universities, 423 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: because again it's not a consumer product. The other really 424 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: key issue is UH security and UH it's a shame 425 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: what's happening that the United States is going to be 426 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: taking a backseat to the Chinese. The Chinese are building 427 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: a facility right now in China. They're spending billion dollars 428 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: on it just to study this. That's actually exactly where 429 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: I wanted to go, which is UH what some of 430 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: the challenges are in this race to develop technology that 431 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 1: most people agree would be the future. And I'm wondering 432 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: when we talk with executives, they often talk about a 433 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: lack of of people who are trained in the right things, 434 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: and I'm wondering how much you know, some of the 435 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: executives in attendance at your conference talked about that, are 436 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: there enough people in the United States who are who 437 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: you can hire to do these things, to develop these programs? Well, 438 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 1: there's UH. There is a Quantum National Initiative that I 439 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: think actually the Hudson Institute came up with which the government, 440 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 1: our government is endorsed. But right now my understanding is 441 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: the US is spending you know, maybe about a billion 442 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: dollars a year UH in all forms and developing quantum computing. 443 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 1: A Chinese or spending over five billion and then they're 444 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: also doing a ten billion dollar center. Okay, so let's 445 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: say the United States decided to put more money into 446 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: quantum computing. Which areas would you think would be the 447 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: best areas for those investments. Well, one area for sure 448 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: is the military. Um is very important that Chinese actually 449 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: have a quantum mechanic UH satellite that everyone said couldn't 450 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: be done. But it's out. It's out there right now, 451 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: and we don't have enough time to talk about what 452 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: it does. I don't personally know everything that it does, 453 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 1: but it's very significant. How they're using it in their 454 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: country and how how how they're planning. Uh. The other 455 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 1: is uh protection for the future. We're going to have 456 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: what we call quantum networks, your cell phones, everything is 457 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,119 Speaker 1: going to be the quantum internet, so everything will be 458 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: much faster. Uh. There's going to be again this situation 459 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: like Y two K where we're going to have to 460 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: have this amazing changeover, and then the security for for 461 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 1: all the financial institute this is going to be threatened. 462 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: Now that doesn't mean that someone couldn't counter that if 463 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: you were at a bank or whatever. But I still 464 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: think that in this country and at the financial institutions 465 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: and the government. They're they're really not focusing on something 466 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: that is going to be a critical problem. Allen Meckler, 467 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. A pleasure 468 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: speaking with you. Alan Mackler, managing partner at Asimov Adventures, 469 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: based in New York and Seattle, talking about the Inside 470 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: Quantum Technology conference that just took place in Boston. Thanks 471 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: for listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast. You 472 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or 473 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 1: whatever podcast platform you prefer. Paul Sweeney, I'm on Twitter 474 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: at pt Sweeney. I'm Lisa Abram Woyds. I'm on Twitter 475 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: at Lisa Abram Woyds one Before the podcast. You can 476 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: always catch us worldwide on Bloomberg Radio.