WEBVTT - Classy with Jonathan Menjivar 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:06.200 Oh lad, dear listener, kipasor Radueskuchak Gomostan. Today we're going 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:09.360 to bring you an episode from Classy. It's a new 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:13.039 podcast hosted by Jonathan Menhivar, in which he explores a 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:16.840 topic that well, a lot of people find uncomfortable. It's 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:19.880 the issue of class. Jonathan grew up in a working 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:22.720 class family in a suburb of Los Angeles. His dad 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:25.959 is from Al Salvador, and as Jonathan built a career 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:30.600 in public radio, he didn't talk about his past. And 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:33.519 that was because of the issue of class. Now, you 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:37.519 can't separate class from race. They often go hand in 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:40.080 hand with the way we look, the way we dress, 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.599 and so in this episode of Classy, Jonathan interviews two 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:48.000 people of color who work in the fashion industry. One 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:52.440 of them is Brenda Equihua, Latina designer, who has turned 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:58.000 our beloved gobekass into a luxury fashion item. Because why 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:02.200 should we feel guilty about wanting nice things? And who 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:07.320 decides which things are considered nice and which things aren't. 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:11.720 Here's Jonathan men Hevar with this episode of Classy. 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:16.200 This episode was supposed to be about fashion. I think 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:18.399 a lot about what our clothes say about us and 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:21.560 what they convey to the world. What I wear has 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:26.000 been a pretty monumental part of the class shift I've made. 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:28.360 But then I talked to the two people who you're 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:30.959 going to hear from today. They've both worked in the 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:36.840 clothing and fashion industry, and those conversations they ended up 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:41.720 being about so much more than clothes, and more about 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:46.160 who is considered classy and who has the power to 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:51.400 say what classy actually is. From Pineapple Street Studios, this 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:55.680 is You Guessed It Classy, a show about the chasms 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:57.840 between us that are really hard to talk about but 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:09.680 too big to ignore. Your host Jonathan and Hev We're 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:12.880 gonna get started with this guy. His name is Amichi Uguo, 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:15.720 and I called him up because I knew he'd worked 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:18.919 in retail, selling clothes and high end men's to wear 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:22.680 shops across the country. I was interested in that dynamic 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:27.200 of being a salesman and selling really fancy suits and 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:30.799 shoes to people with a lot of money. Amichi first 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:33.799 got into clothes when he was in college. Back then, 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:36.680 he was experimenting a lot, and some of his clothes 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:37.800 were pretty wild. 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.400 I can describe to you one outfit that everybody always 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:47.040 remembers I had on a horse jockey helmet. A helmet, yeah, 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:54.959 horse jockey helmet, some mirrored aviator sunglasses, a satin gold 0:02:54.960 --> 0:03:03.240 bow tie, a dress military jacket, some corn corduroys, red sox, 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:07.200 black pat leather shoes. I mean, if you can picture 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:11.519 dad outfit in your what that might have looked like. Oh, 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:12.519 I was having fun. 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:22.520 I mean, you grew up in Houston. His family was 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:26.480 middle class, it was mostly black neighborhood, and for college, 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.679 he went to Southern University in Baton, Riuge, Louisiana. 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:34.040 Southern University is a historically black college, and I remember 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:37.520 sitting in the crowd, you know, at convocation and I 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.480 looked to my left and every my right, and everybody's black. 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:44.040 I look into the stands and everybody's black. I graduated 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:47.080 on a Saturday. I start my first job following Tuesday, 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:54.000 and I remember being in the first morning meeting and 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:57.000 looking around. I was like, damn, it's really just it's 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:00.880 just me now, you know, It's just I'm I'm the 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:05.120 only black person now. And that was a different experience. 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:07.640 That was something that like in my life I had 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:10.080 never experienced. I think from elementary school, all the way 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:13.800 to college. Everybody was either black or Hispanic majority. 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.080 The shop Amichi was working at was fancy, the kind 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:21.040 of place featured in GQ magazine. His coworkers there, they 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:24.400 were welcoming, and they all had to wear a kind 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:30.120 of uniform, a blazer and Oxford shirt. Amichi looked good 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:33.039 in the clothes. He was wearing leather sold shoes for 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:36.680 the first time in his life. But pretty quickly the 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:39.920 fact that Amichi was black became a thing between him 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:41.960 and some of the guys he was working with, not 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:44.760 in any kind of overt way, but things would come 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.640 up when they were standing around waiting for customers, Like. 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:54.640 If we were talking about cars, right, and everybody's super 0:04:54.640 --> 0:05:00.880 into the Ferraris and porsches in and Lamborghini's, you know, 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:05.320 and I was talking, man, I want a nineteen seventy 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:10.080 six Cadillac Eldorado. I wanted to be silver, and you know, 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.599 I'll describe my own car like what inspire me, you know, 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:19.760 I think about like blaxploitation films and just in the neighborhood, 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:22.599 like you grow up seeing like that was part of 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:26.600 our culture. Was like taking these old school cars and 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:27.440 fixing them up. 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.400 I mean she would talk about the bright, shiny paint 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:33.479 people used on the cars, the big sound systems. 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:36.440 Those were the things that like really inspired me, Like 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:39.560 seeing those things like, man, look like spaceship. I was like, 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:42.239 look at that, look at the cars, like the hood 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.760 of the car is super long. It's something about seeing 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:58.760 those cars that like, really I wanted one. So to 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.800 come to that group where that's talking about Ferrari and 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:09.479 Porsche and Binzes and Rose Royce. They were what like 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:13.359 that Cadillac? They thought it was strange. They were like, 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:16.360 why would you want a Cadillac? And I was like, man, 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:19.840 look at it like they didn't get it, Like they 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:20.880 just didn't understand. 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:22.400 And what that feel like? 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:25.880 It's like feeling rejected a little bit. You know, you 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:28.560 like you present something that you're excited about or that 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:34.160 you love and then people laugh at it, and it 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:36.840 kind of like puts you in a position where you 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:40.799 kind of doubt yourself, you know, like is this good? 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:43.880 Like should I not? You know, like you start to 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:46.960 look at your opinions or your ideas and question yourself. 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:53.479 And it was frustrating because I wanted to be myself, 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:58.039 but you also in a sense want to be a 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:00.640 part of the team. You know, you want to feel 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.560 like the things that you think are cool that somebody 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:05.440 else is like, I see what you're talking about. You know, 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:09.159 they can relate to it in some way, But sometimes 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:13.520 it felt like they wouldn't even try. Even though I 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:17.000 learned a lot about Porsches and Ferraris and Rolls Royces, 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:19.320 and you know, I learned a lot about it. 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:28.200 This car thing. It wasn't just a matter of not 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:33.200 fitting in and having his taste questioned. It's actually important 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:37.480 to the job relating to customers, having some sort of 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:41.640 shared understanding of the things you're into. That's how you 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:42.840 sell clothes. 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:47.080 In luxury fashion. A lot of your job as a 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:51.160 salesperson when they walk in is not necessarily trying to 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:56.040 sell them this one item, but to connect with them 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:59.200 and make them feel like they belong here and this 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:01.960 is where they want to buy it. And I think 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:04.560 it was when I started having conversations with these people 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:10.040 that I started to get a better understanding like how 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.200 different we were, Like, oh yeah, me and my wife 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:15.000 went to the country club and we were you know, 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.960 played some rounds of tennis, and then we had brunch, 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.160 and then we did it, and it's like, that's not 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.280 a part of my brand. I don't you know, I 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:24.560 don't know anybody who went to brunch when I was 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:26.640 when I was growing up. 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:30.600 Selling clothes to guys who are driving roles choices, this 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:34.400 kind of power dynamic. I mean, you found it intimidating. 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:38.520 He says. He kind of folded in on himself at first, 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.640 but over time it went away because he developed this 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:42.920 way to combat that feeling. 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.680 You know, growing up in my community, we have a 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:51.120 way of still being able to like find our own 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:55.719 worth regardless of what such and such or whoever might have. 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.000 You know, you can't tell me I'm not that guy 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.040 because I don't have money. You may have money, you 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:03.240 may have the cars, whatever, But I'm flyed in you. 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:05.760 I dress better than you, I look better than you. 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:07.600 You know, like all of these things you find to 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:12.160 like stop, I ain't worried about, you know, what such 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:14.120 and such has when he walks in the door. And 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:17.760 that became like the attitude that I had to tap into. 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.400 I Maye worked at this store for a few years, 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:33.000 and then he moved to New York and started working 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:36.240 I didn't even higher end menswear store that kind of 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.760 place where you can't just walk out the door with clothes. 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.040 You gotta get measured and have them all tailored and everything. 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:46.720 This shop is a little more international. There were Asians 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:50.800 from all over the world and some white. 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.040 Guys, so it was a little bit of a mixed bag. 0:09:53.200 --> 0:10:06.000 And then again just me still the only black guy here. 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:11.440 There weren't people actively questioning them Chie's taste, but still 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:14.960 being the only black eye, he found himself kind of 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:18.439 hemmed in trying to follow some unspoken rules about the 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:22.040 way he should behave all the standard code switching that 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.840 people of color often have to do in situations like this, 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:30.480 but maybe weirder, there seemed to be these rules that 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:32.839 the other employees in the store were following about the 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:34.760 way they should behave around him. 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:39.000 There were times when it was really apparent that some 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:43.640 of my white coworkers had never worked with black people before, 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.000 like they didn't know how what to do with themselves, 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:50.960 you know, like it manifests itself as like over compensation. 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:55.800 I mean sometimes it would be like just overpraising me, 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:57.719 you know, like, oh, you're doing this so well, you're 0:10:57.760 --> 0:10:59.719 doing that. It's like, man, I literally just put the 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:01.440 shoe on the shelf, like why are you doing? 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:01.600 Like? 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:03.120 You know. 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.440 So it's in this environment that something happens one day 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:22.640 that really shakes him achi It makes him question all 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:25.120 the ways he's been adjusting himself to fit in. 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:28.720 It was a really quiet day, we didn't have a 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:32.600 whole lot going on in the shop, and this guy 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:37.640 walks in and immediately when he walks in, everybody's ears 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:40.640 kind of perk up because dude kind of looks like 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:45.840 he's homeless and tells everybody he wants to get a suit. 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:51.520 So they're like, all right, they start putting suits on him. 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:54.520 You know, he's trying on everything. He eventually ends up 0:11:54.559 --> 0:12:00.959 with a whole kid on shirt, jacket, shoes, socks, tie, 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:05.440 whole thing, and he puts it on. He's looking at mirror. 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:07.280 He's like, oh yeah, man, I like it. He's like, 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:11.280 I'll take it. And we're all kind of like because 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:15.760 all of the clothes at this shop come unfinished. So 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:18.600 the hem on the pants is not done, the sleeves 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.960 are not done, and it looks like at this point 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.640 the suit is swallowing him a little bit. 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:27.920 I mean she is standing off to the side watching 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:31.040 all this happen. The guy tells the salesmen that are 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.720 helping him that he'll take the suit as is. He 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:36.280 wants to walk out wearing it. 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:39.160 So he gets up to the counter and they ring 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:45.120 everything up, comes out to a couple thousand dollars, and 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.800 he starts looking for his wallet. After we give him total. 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:51.720 He's like patting his pockets, and we're like, oh, man, 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:54.760 I think in the back of everybody's mind, we're like, 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.520 he ain't got no wallet. And he starts patting his pockets. 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:00.240 He's like, maybe i'll lift it in dressing room, goes 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:05.120 back in the dressing room. There's no wallet, and we're 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:08.679 preparing for something to happen. We're like, all right, he 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:10.840 can't find his wallet. Like this is the point where 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:13.440 he just like braks for the door and tries to 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.760 tackle somebody, you know. So you know, we kind of 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.400 get into this formation that lets him know like, you know, 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.559 we're all here, we're all paying attention, we're all alert, 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:27.839 and you can kind of see him looking around and checking. 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.560 He sees somebody at the door, he sees somebody standing 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:34.360 next to him. The guy at the counter is just 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:38.640 kind of like waiting, like what you're gonna do, and 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.080 then he just kind of pauses and says, you know what, 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:44.880 I guess I'm just gonna come back, you know, I 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.400 gotta go find my wallet, and goes back to the 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:54.440 fitting room, takes everything off, and leaves, never comes back. 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:10.680 That was a particularly strange like scenario for me because 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:13.680 the guy happened to be black. I had my own 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:15.959 you know, there was my own ideas, my own thoughts 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:18.400 that were that were happening while this was going, and 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:23.120 I think one of them was feeling like, oh man, 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:26.840 why is this guy coming in here and and doing this? 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:29.120 Why is he making us look bad? You know, That's 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:43.600 that's what's going through my head at the time. It 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:45.920 was unfair, that was I mean to say that, like, 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.120 in hindsight, that's an unfair way to look at that, 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:51.320 But that was that was what I was thinking at 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:51.720 that time. 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:54.480 Did you guys talk about it after the guy left? 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:57.720 I think when he walked out the door, everybody just 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.440 kind of stared at each other for like thirty seconds. 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:04.040 We were just like trying to figure out exactly what, 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:08.680 you know, what just happened. Yeah, that was something I 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:11.120 more had to sit with on my own, and I 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.120 don't I don't even think I talked to any friends 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.840 about it or or really got to like hash that 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:23.800 out with anybody. 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:30.320 What is that making us look bad? 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:30.560 What? 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.320 What in what way were you thinking, like he's making 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.480 us look bad? I think I understand, but uh, well, 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:43.360 you know, like there's this idea in in the black 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:47.040 community that like we always have to be on our 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.320 best behavior, like we all have to be doing, you know, 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:55.320 doing the right thing. Like you know, a white person 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:58.000 or anybody, it doesn't have to necessarily be somebody white, 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.040 but they experience like a black person, one black person 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:06.000 or two or five, and then they say black people 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:10.040 are this, or they behave like that, or black people 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:14.920 are always doing this. So where I was coming from 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:17.960 when I thought that was, you know, like this is 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.400 just another strike on that you know, on that list. 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:24.680 You know, someone who's not black experiencing a black person 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:28.960 in this way and them putting that like, oh they 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.240 black people, da da da. And this is in my mind, 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.520 this may not even be what these other people were thinking, 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:38.280 but this is just because of how I'm experiencing the 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.960 world and people who look like me have experienced the world. 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:43.440 This is what's going through my mind. 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.920 I may and with all my coworkers, with all of 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.800 the people that we work with, I might be the 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:54.600 only black person they ever interact with, you know, in 0:16:54.640 --> 0:17:00.680 their life, and I just think about like those space. 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.040 I think in that space, I was thinking, well, like, 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:10.000 we're never here, so when we do show up, it 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:11.200 needs to be in the best light. 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.119 Did that make you think anything at all about the 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:20.520 way that it's different? But in some ways you had 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.359 to be on your best behavior at these places, Like 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.640 you couldn't be one hundred percent authentically who you were. 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:32.320 Yeah. Yeah, I felt like that. And maybe some of 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.399 that might have been in my head too, you know, 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.280 thinking that I couldn't be myself, and maybe I could 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:39.920 have been and they would have been totally accepting of it. 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:46.560 You know, that's quite possible. But I think at that time, 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.159 I don't think I ever felt comfortable completely, you know, 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:54.879 one hundred percent being myself because there was still a 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:58.200 little bit of discomfort for me in being the only 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.040 black guy, like being the only black person. I still 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:03.720 feel like there were certain topics, certain subjects that I 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.840 would only want to talk about with other black people, 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:09.560 or only want to hear the perspective of certain people. 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:14.399 I mean, like I think about that scenario that I 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:18.120 just told you about. It's like I couldn't imagine ever 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:21.280 having that conversation with somebody, or telling somebody about my 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:25.119 thoughts and how I felt with somebody who wasn't black 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:29.639 up until now, because if you don't come from that 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:33.919 or understand why I might have thought that, it'd be 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.160 hard for you to understand where I was coming from 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:39.399 or how to rationalize what it was I was saying. 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.080 I mean, chi Uu no longer works at that shop 0:18:55.119 --> 0:19:00.080 in New York. His last retail job was in twenty twenty. 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:02.440 In some ways, he's returned to a place where he's 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:04.520 not having to think about things like this all the time. 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:08.680 He now runs his own brand, making sportswear for HBCUs. 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:10.959 It's called Torch Sportswear. 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:15.120 Where I am now, I don't think I'll ever work 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:18.840 another retail job. I pray that I never have to 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:23.080 work in retail again, but I know that if that 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:26.800 day ever came, my approach would be a lot different. 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:29.320 You know, how I would move in that space and 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:31.560 how I would present myself would be different than I 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:35.320 have in the past. I can't compress myself anymore. 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:49.800 I'm never going to fully understand what it was like 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.240 for Amhi in that moment, but it makes so much sense. 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:56.439 I think you probably understand it to some degree too. 0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:00.359 But I have had experiences where the combination of race 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:04.080 and class has made me do things that I have questioned. 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:08.560 I'm a pretty white, passing Latino. I grew up with 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:13.359 the culture. My first language was Spanglish, but my Spanish 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.760 is pretty broken now. Sometimes people don't know I'm Latino 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.359 until I tell them, Like this one time at work, 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:23.280 someone pointed at my face after I told them, and 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:26.360 they said, I knew there was something going on there. 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:30.240 The thing that's happened for me, the way that I 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:34.679 have frankly gotten a little confused, I guess when it 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:38.280 comes to race and class, is that when I decided 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:40.760 that I wanted a life where I could be creative 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:44.920 and not have to do manual labor, I mostly look 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:50.520 to white people and white culture, but like odd, dorky 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:54.119 pockets of white culture. Like when I was a teenager, 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:57.439 one of my first exposures to journalism, the thing I 0:20:57.440 --> 0:20:59.360 would watch whenever it was on TV was this guy, 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:04.240 Hugh Houser. He was from Tennessee and he'd travel all 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:07.399 over California with a microphone, doing features on things like 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:09.000 making peanut brittle. 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:11.359 Now we're gonna pour it out. 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:12.960 That's right there. 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:17.879 You go, oh look, now that's peanut brittle. 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:19.000 That's peanut brittle. 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:24.600 There's other stuff too. I'm an eagle Scout. I wore 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:29.520 that uniform until I was eighteen years old. But maybe 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:33.520 the strangest thing I got into I think I am 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:38.199 very embarrassed to confess right now, is it. For a 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:41.840 year or two when I was in high school, I 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:55.000 had a subscription to Country Living magazine. I think maybe 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:58.160 it started because I was into ram and they were 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:01.119 from the South, or maybe I just wanted out of 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:06.159 my house, out of my boring suburban town, and the 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:10.480 country somehow seemed appealing. I don't know, but one day 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:14.439 in the grocery store I picked up this magazine and 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:18.880 I just couldn't get enough. There was feature after feature 0:22:19.160 --> 0:22:22.560 of nice, proper little houses out in the country somewhere, 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:26.760 with everything decorated just so. I thought it was so classy. 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:30.080 It was like Dwell Magazine if Colonel Sanders was the 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:30.960 editor in chief. 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:32.640 I loved it. 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:36.800 And you know, people of color are allowed to consume 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:40.679 whatever culture. They want all this nerdy white stuff. It 0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:45.600 influenced me deeply, still does. My daughter makes fun of 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:48.159 me because I will watch hours and hours of that 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:52.920 home renovation show Hometown that's basically country living on HGTV. 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:59.080 The part of all of this that feels upsetting is 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:02.919 that when I was looking for an escape hatch, I 0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:07.240 didn't see any examples of Latinos out there. They were 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:12.439 there in music and film and literature, even journalism. I 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:16.439 know that now, but they weren't on the TV. They 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:21.200 weren't mainstream. This was all happening at a time when 0:23:21.359 --> 0:23:26.840 anti immigrant fervor was raging in California. Voters had overwhelmingly 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:31.480 supported Prop One eighty seven, basically taking away all social 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:35.400 services for undocumented immigrants, and kids at my school were 0:23:35.400 --> 0:23:39.040 openly talking to me about Mexicans stealing jobs and living 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:43.080 off of welfare. At the same time, some people in 0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:46.480 my own family were calling me owero for living in 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:49.080 the suburbs and being into the things I was into. 0:23:50.640 --> 0:23:53.800 I think, in some ways, through some combination of all 0:23:53.840 --> 0:24:00.399 of that, I internalized that Latinos didn't deserve better, that 0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:06.159 we didn't deserve nice things. Coming up, someone helps me 0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:18.439 see that we do, all right, Jonathan, back here, you're 0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:23.960 very classy host. Brenda Akihwa is a luxury fashion designer 0:24:24.000 --> 0:24:27.359 in la Her work has been featured in Vogue and 0:24:27.480 --> 0:24:30.720 The La Times. Bad Bunny and Lil nas X have 0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:33.119 worn her stuff, but it took her a while to 0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:35.879 get to that place. Her journey into the world of 0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:39.639 fashion started in high school when she applied to Parsons, 0:24:40.320 --> 0:24:42.120 the Art and Design College in New York. 0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:47.560 I'd heard of that school just through overhearing someone's conversation. 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:50.879 That's how I heard about that fashion school. 0:24:51.320 --> 0:24:52.160 Someone at school. 0:24:52.560 --> 0:24:56.120 Yeah, someone at school. So I'm a very curious person, 0:24:56.320 --> 0:25:02.040 and that's how I've acquired. Percent of the information has 0:25:02.080 --> 0:25:07.320 been through nosiness. You know, I am a professional Chi's moosa, 0:25:09.880 --> 0:25:13.520 that's use this information for good reasons. 0:25:13.960 --> 0:25:17.600 A chismosa is a gossip and you could call Brenda 0:25:17.640 --> 0:25:21.400 a Chi's moosa. But really what she was was an observer, 0:25:22.200 --> 0:25:25.600 the trait she picked up from her mom. Brenda grew 0:25:25.680 --> 0:25:28.280 up in Santa Barbara, California. It's a town right on 0:25:28.359 --> 0:25:31.959 the beach, super affluent. Brenda was being raised by her 0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:35.040 single mom there in a Latino community that was mostly 0:25:35.080 --> 0:25:38.760 employed working for the rich, mostly white people in town. 0:25:39.440 --> 0:25:43.600 Brenda's mom cleaned houses, and sometimes Brenda would come along 0:25:43.640 --> 0:25:47.440 with her, and she'd see firsthand the way her mom 0:25:47.800 --> 0:25:50.480 was actively studying these people's lives. 0:25:51.680 --> 0:25:56.040 So my mom would always show us like, oh, look, 0:25:56.160 --> 0:25:58.760 you know, smell this perfume. It smells really good. We 0:25:58.760 --> 0:26:02.679 should get this. Or I've seen this grandma at this 0:26:02.880 --> 0:26:06.320 other lady's house, so this must be really good, you know. 0:26:07.119 --> 0:26:11.800 And so we learned through this sort of unauthorized access 0:26:13.280 --> 0:26:18.199 what good products were that we wouldn't have known otherwise. 0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:22.320