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Speaker 1: Ah beaut force. If it doesn't work, you're just not

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Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to Software Radio, Special Operations, military

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Speaker 1: news and straight talk with the guys and the community

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Speaker 1: softwrep dot com on time on Target. This is the

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Speaker 1: first time we're doing this this way where we have

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Speaker 1: the recording going on that we're gonna put up on

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Speaker 1: YouTube and playing the elements you know from the board.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, first time in studio with us. Jack Carr,

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Speaker 1: author of the Terminal List and former Navy seal. Great

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Speaker 1: to have you here in studio. Thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: having me right there. It is there, it is. Thank

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Speaker 1: you guys so much. It's great to be here. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: thanks for having us or thanks for coming on our show.

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Speaker 1: Especially in studio. It's always cool actually meet you guys

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Speaker 1: in person. And that's the ones I've done. I've been

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Speaker 1: on my on my computer at home, so this is

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Speaker 1: it's cool to be in a studio with all the

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Speaker 1: actual equipment here. Yeah, definitely. I think it's just it's

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Speaker 1: it's a different experience when you're in the same room

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Speaker 1: as the guys. So to give some background on Jack,

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Speaker 1: Jack is a former Navy seal served in seal teams

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Speaker 1: to five seven, n alve and and Special Boat Team twelve.

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Speaker 1: So you're not I was gonna say twenty year better

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Speaker 1: in or nineteen year better in twenty So yeah, not

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Speaker 1: not eleven, but to five and seven for my for

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Speaker 1: my team's um and uh yeah, twenty years and so

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Speaker 1: twenty to wake up. And then that was out. Why

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Speaker 1: do I have eleven from I don't know? Okay, it's

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Speaker 1: a typo, yeah, okay, so so correcting myself to five

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Speaker 1: and seven. But then special boat Teams, well yeah, yeah cool?

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Speaker 1: And this is this is your first ever book? Is

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Speaker 1: this is? Yeah? Genre? Yep, yeap. I always want to

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Speaker 1: do that since I was a little kid. So as

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Speaker 1: my time in the military was coming to an end,

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Speaker 1: it was time to transition out and figure out what

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Speaker 1: that next, that next mission in life was going to be.

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Speaker 1: And part of that was, well, big part was taking

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Speaker 1: care of my family and the other part was finding

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Speaker 1: that that next thing that I wanted to do and

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Speaker 1: h the two things I wanted to do from a

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Speaker 1: very early age, where one via seal through my country

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Speaker 1: and uniform, and second thing was to to write fiction

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Speaker 1: in the genre. Gave it a shot, and here we

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Speaker 1: are on Software Radio you know, I I think it's

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Speaker 1: super cool because I mean I had like the kind

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Speaker 1: of the same thought when I got out of the military.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I've read so many novels like and

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Speaker 1: I have, you know, a military background, Like why don't

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Speaker 1: I translate that experience into like given like some authenticity

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Speaker 1: to a novel. And I mean, you spent twenty years

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Speaker 1: in the navy, Um, pretty much all of it in

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Speaker 1: the seal teams, are in naval special warfare, and you

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Speaker 1: have like a real depth of experience to draw on

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Speaker 1: and inform your work. Yeah, I mean it wasn't That

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Speaker 1: wasn't my you know, intention, that one would lead to

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Speaker 1: the other to completely separate things. Um. And uh, it

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Speaker 1: just so happened that as I was transitioning during that

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Speaker 1: last year. As you know, once you drop your papers

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Speaker 1: to get out, it's like, Okay, you're off the off

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Speaker 1: the track you were on, and now it's time to

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Speaker 1: figure out how to administratively separate in the military, which

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Speaker 1: it seems like you're the first person to ever do it.

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Speaker 1: That's my experience anyway. Um, and that was time to

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Speaker 1: to figure out what I was gonna do next. I

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Speaker 1: started started writing and as a kid. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I transitioned from whatever young adult books into actual adult

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Speaker 1: thick and probably around fifth grade. I guess I naturally

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Speaker 1: gravitated to the same types of movies that I liked,

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Speaker 1: you know, those movies that had things had to do

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Speaker 1: with what I was going to do later in life,

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Speaker 1: which was hopefully become a Navy seal. Um. So I

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Speaker 1: naturally gravitated towards books like that too. So the Tom

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Speaker 1: Clancy stuff, David Morrell, um, uh, Nelson to mill and

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Speaker 1: then later Stephen Hunter and then later on brat Thor

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Speaker 1: and Vince Flynn. But um, but yeah, I naturally gravitated

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Speaker 1: to that kind of fiction. So I always knew that,

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Speaker 1: uh that one day i'd write it. And then while

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Speaker 1: I was in the military, it just made my mission

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Speaker 1: really was to study the enemy, study where we were going,

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Speaker 1: study their you know, their politics or religion, their culture. Um,

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Speaker 1: lessons learned from guys that have been there before us.

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Speaker 1: That I could make the best decisions I could under fire.

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Speaker 1: And it just so happened that all that study translated

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Speaker 1: well to writing fiction once I got out. So a

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Speaker 1: lot of my research was already done by both the

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Speaker 1: experiences that I had and the things that I had studied,

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Speaker 1: and it's a hell of a lot more fun than

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Speaker 1: writing like policy memos in the Navy. I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've done with I'm done with all that. I just

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Speaker 1: wanted want to do this right right fiction and the

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Speaker 1: second book just finishing that up now. I wan'll be

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Speaker 1: out next next spring. It's called true believer and excited

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Speaker 1: to keep going down this path. Let me ask you,

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Speaker 1: as uh, you know a guy who had a totally

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Speaker 1: legit career as a navy seal. Um, what are the

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Speaker 1: things in fiction, whether it's in um books or movies

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Speaker 1: that you see and you're just like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: like that's completely wrong. Why are they doing that? Well?

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Speaker 1: I try not to watch movies or read books with

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Speaker 1: that that I because it's I want to enjoy them. Um,

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Speaker 1: So I don't, but I do. I do see that

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Speaker 1: stuff and then kind of just try to push it

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Speaker 1: inside and enjoy it for what it is action adventure

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Speaker 1: flick exactly. So if I'm reading a book and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden someone takes the safety off their glock

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Speaker 1: or something like that, I try just to brush over

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Speaker 1: that real quick, exactly. I want to continue to enjoy

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Speaker 1: the story if it's if it's a good story, and

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Speaker 1: it's just it's a minor distraction. So so you won't

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Speaker 1: find any of that in in the terminal list. Uh so, um,

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Speaker 1: that's saything in movies, you know, you find you know,

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Speaker 1: people are shoe and never never reload or they do it,

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Speaker 1: they don't go blind cover or whatever else. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: it's uh, and I wish I could announce here on

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Speaker 1: Software Radio. Um some what's going to happen as far

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Speaker 1: as the movie stuff. But the guy that optioned it

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Speaker 1: for the movie is very excited to do stuff and

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Speaker 1: do it right and train and and really really uh

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Speaker 1: you know, learn the tactics and uh, anyway, well well

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Speaker 1: we'll hopefully we can announced that in a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks or uh. My goal would be that you know

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Speaker 1: they get distract from Hollywood very easily as well. But

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Speaker 1: if they do go through with it and make the

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Speaker 1: make the movie, you won't find that that's super in

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Speaker 1: a mag that's super cool. I mean, the first time

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Speaker 1: author and like already getting like some nibbles from Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's crazy, that's awesome. Yeah, I could I

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Speaker 1: feel very fortunate. Yeah, when did this book come out

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Speaker 1: so March six. Okay, okay, so it's been up for

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Speaker 1: a little bit. What was like the genesis of of

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Speaker 1: this character in this novel? Like you must have you

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Speaker 1: had a pretty good basis of what else was out

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Speaker 1: there in this genre and what was what was your

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Speaker 1: take on it? What was your pro sure your angle? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I put about six five or six different ideas

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Speaker 1: on the table and wrote about half a page to

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Speaker 1: a page as far as just a synopsis ideas kind

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Speaker 1: of fleet free flow typewriting. And I looked at all

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Speaker 1: those ideas, those possible storylines, and I picked the one

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Speaker 1: that was the most visceral, the one that I thought

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Speaker 1: would be the most hard hitting out of the gate,

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Speaker 1: and that was a story of revenge, of revenge without

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Speaker 1: constraint really and uh so that's how I wanted to

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Speaker 1: wanted to enter this space, was as impactful as I

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Speaker 1: as I possibly could. So that's the one that I

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Speaker 1: that I focused on, and the title came very quickly

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Speaker 1: and then started outlining it and just started started writing.

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Speaker 1: Um but if you as you as you read through it,

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Speaker 1: there're definitely some some nuggets in there. That's only people

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Speaker 1: that have been in the in the military, we'll we'll

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Speaker 1: pick up on So there's a few hidenjams for everybody,

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Speaker 1: and you draw on your experience I take it, and

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Speaker 1: deploying overseas and so forth. Yep. And I think that's

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Speaker 1: why it resonated with Samon and Schuster Atria Emily Bestler

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Speaker 1: books is because it reads like their real emotions that's

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Speaker 1: protagonist is feeling. And that's because I tapped into experiences

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Speaker 1: that I had in real life and just brought those

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Speaker 1: emotions to a completely fictional storyline. So it ended up

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Speaker 1: being a very therapeutic and very emotional story to write,

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Speaker 1: even though it was fiction. And I didn't expect that

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Speaker 1: at the outset. I thought, I'm just gonna write, you know,

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Speaker 1: a good story that people are gonna enjoy escaping into,

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Speaker 1: and um, it ended up being a very personal right.

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Speaker 1: It's inevitable, you know. Um, I didn't expect that at all.

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Speaker 1: But and I think that's really that comes through with

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Speaker 1: which is why it's doing so well, is because, uh,

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Speaker 1: those emotions read like they're true because they are. Well.

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Speaker 1: The other thing too, that someone really, only someone like you,

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Speaker 1: can really bring to the table is I think the

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Speaker 1: way the troops interact with one another. UM. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know if this is like a solo vigilante tale

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Speaker 1: or if you know, it's about him interacting with his

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Speaker 1: teammates also, but I find that in um in fiction,

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Speaker 1: a lot of authors who never served in the military,

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Speaker 1: they don't understand, like the way we screw with each

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Speaker 1: other all the time. You know, I'm sure it's like that.

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Speaker 1: I know it's like that on a seal platoon because

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Speaker 1: I worked with those guy's overseas. Same on a range

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Speaker 1: of platoon or a special Forces team, Like we're always

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Speaker 1: putting the screws to each other. Yeah. Yeah, you try

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Speaker 1: when you get out and you try to do that.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes people are surprised when you get out into the

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Speaker 1: private sector and start doing that same type of thing.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't times it doesn't play as well. Sometimes it does,

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Speaker 1: but not not always. UM. But yeah, so I think

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Speaker 1: that that really resonates throughout throughout the novel. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I got to explore the topic that I

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Speaker 1: just gravitated to as a as a kid and still

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Speaker 1: gravitate towards in movies and books that I like to read,

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Speaker 1: which is that that revenge thriller. And uh, I I

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Speaker 1: wanted to have it be more than just a book

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Speaker 1: about a guy who quote unquote has nothing, nothing exactly. Um.

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Speaker 1: So so that was that was the first question I

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Speaker 1: came came to was how do you how do you

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Speaker 1: make him already dead? Essentially, how do you make him like, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, tap into that code of honor from the

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Speaker 1: samurai the shudo. How they would go into battle thinking

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Speaker 1: they're already dead because they they thought that made them

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Speaker 1: more effective and efficient warriors. And how do I take

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Speaker 1: that mindset and drop it into a modern day war.

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Speaker 1: And that's where the conspiracy comes in, with the government

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Speaker 1: testing out drugs our nations most elite soldiers, and then

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Speaker 1: interesting having some side effects that they need to cover

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Speaker 1: up that He then unravels and puts his list together

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Speaker 1: and then starts working his way up that list, um,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily using just his skills, but using what worked

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Speaker 1: against us in Iraq and Afghanistan and bringing those things

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Speaker 1: to this country and essentially becoming the insurgent that he'd

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Speaker 1: been fighting, becoming that terrorist that he'd been fighting for

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Speaker 1: the sixteen seventeen years that he'd been in the military,

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Speaker 1: so um, and then escalating it with each and every

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Speaker 1: hit that he does on this soil. And so it's

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Speaker 1: a role reversal exactly. And what what is the like

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Speaker 1: protagonist's main background, So it's very similar to mine. So

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Speaker 1: he's a prior enlisted seal sniper that becomes an officer

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Speaker 1: and is at that point in his career where he

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Speaker 1: is his his deployment will be the last one where

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Speaker 1: he tactically leads guys in the battlefield. Uh. And I

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Speaker 1: knew what that felt like because after I got back

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Speaker 1: from that deployment is when I decided to to get

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Speaker 1: on out of the military. Um. So he's at that

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Speaker 1: stage and he has kids and is deciding that, hey,

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Speaker 1: it's uh, it's time to have time to move on

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Speaker 1: and take care of them and leave this, uh, leave

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Speaker 1: this whole life behind. And that's when disaster strikes, both

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Speaker 1: on the battlefield and on the home front. And uh

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Speaker 1: and uh then off he goes on his h on

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Speaker 1: his crusade, which I mean it's not uh, you're not

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Speaker 1: wrong either. I mean for a lot of guys, it's

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Speaker 1: like the moment things slow down and you get and

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Speaker 1: you leave that life behind, that's where like things start

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Speaker 1: to come unraveled and people have to reconstruct their identity

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Speaker 1: as an in civilian life. Yep, yep. And it's it's

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Speaker 1: a differty transitions at some point, uh, you know in

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Speaker 1: the military or professional sports or Olympic athletes kind of

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Speaker 1: deal with it in the extreme because they've been so

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Speaker 1: focused on something for for so long that has given

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Speaker 1: them a sense of purpose greater than themselves. Um. But

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Speaker 1: everybody transitions from something from things different parts of their

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Speaker 1: of their life, and for us in the military, I

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Speaker 1: think it's about really finding that next mission and finding

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Speaker 1: that thing that gives us that sense of purpose and

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Speaker 1: really identifying that and then it allows you to answer

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Speaker 1: yes or no to different opportunities they come along because

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Speaker 1: you've essentially already figured out if you're going to pursue

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Speaker 1: them or not, because you've identified what's important ahead of time. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier that we uh we interviewed Nate Boyer yesterday, like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, and we did some charity and it's great,

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Speaker 1: that's great if we did something with the Special Forces

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Speaker 1: Charitable Trust that uh they do um a lot for

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Speaker 1: for the families of guys that uh that really didn't

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Speaker 1: didn't make it back and that uh anyway, great organization,

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Speaker 1: all about all about helping the guys and their families.

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Speaker 1: And we do a shoot every year for the foundation,

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Speaker 1: and it's a sporting clays shoot where you don't win

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Speaker 1: by how many clays you break, you win by how

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Speaker 1: much money you raise. So it's a competition to raise

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Speaker 1: the most money and it's it's a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: And we were we uh we're co hosts last year.

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Speaker 1: So Nate's a Nates, a great guy, and he's doing

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Speaker 1: amazing things for both veterans and UH and guys in

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Speaker 1: professional sports as well. I'm bringing those two communities together.

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Speaker 1: That's awesome. So can you give us a hint of

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Speaker 1: where this series is going? You said that there's already

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Speaker 1: a sequel that you wrapped up. Yeah, so I don't

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Speaker 1: want to give way to you much. I'll say that

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Speaker 1: the characters from the first book, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: say which ones, uh do make it into book number two?

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Speaker 1: But which ones in what capacity? That's the that's the

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Speaker 1: secret for for book number two. That kind of leaves

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Speaker 1: it open ended at the well, I wan't don't ruin

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Speaker 1: it for everybody, but yeah, the idea would be to

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Speaker 1: have a series, and uh, I got also, I know

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Speaker 1: you've had rat thor On and he really opened the

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Speaker 1: door to this industry for me. And uh, he could

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Speaker 1: not have been more generous with his time and his

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Speaker 1: advice and uh and I would not be here today,

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Speaker 1: uh living essentially, this is this dream that I've had

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Speaker 1: some childhood without without him. And not to mention, I

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Speaker 1: praise from breadth or on the book as well as

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Speaker 1: Chuck Norris of all Chuck Norris. Yeah, I have a

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Speaker 1: great picture with Chuck holding up the book, and uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's a he's a fan. And I mean, obviously I

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Speaker 1: grew up, you know, a child of the eighties, sho.

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Speaker 1: I grew up with with Chuck Norris movies and Invasion USA,

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Speaker 1: a classic, you know, Lone Wolf mcquaide one of my favorites. Uh,

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Speaker 1: the Delta Force of course, Yeah, I love it. Um

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Speaker 1: and uh yeah, he actually got my number and he

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Speaker 1: FaceTime me out of the blue, right yeah, before I

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Speaker 1: submitted the book, and he uh he yeah, just called

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Speaker 1: me out of the blue to say hi. And amazing, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: absolutely incredible, absolutely incredible. I was totally surreal. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: now he has to have a picture with him holding

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Speaker 1: up the book and just yeah, I just could not

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Speaker 1: could not have been nice to have it so much

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Speaker 1: support from everybody, um, you know, both in and out

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Speaker 1: of the publishing industry. As I've transitioned. I feel extremely fortunate,

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Speaker 1: that's for sure. But yeah, it would not be here

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Speaker 1: without Brad thor And in his latest novel, Spymaster. I

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Speaker 1: was reading that and on page fifty he actually mentions

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Speaker 1: the terminalist he wrote it into like the characters reading

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Speaker 1: the book on the exactly what he didn't but he, uh,

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Speaker 1: well he might know what if he listens to this now.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I had already written Spymaster into my

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Speaker 1: second novel. It's a real way. So it's just funny

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Speaker 1: how that happened was without any pre planning whatsoever. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, well, you're right. I mean Brad has had

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Speaker 1: an incredible run, and I mean he's still going strong,

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Speaker 1: going strong, going strong. He's just amazing. Yeah, for any

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Speaker 1: you would be authors out there. He when we first talked,

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Speaker 1: he gave me some some great advice and uh he said,

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Speaker 1: give yourself permission to write a bad chapter. And for

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Speaker 1: me to hear that just I think it was about

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Speaker 1: four months into my writing when we talked for the

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Speaker 1: first time, and to hear that from somebody that's been

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Speaker 1: so successful was very liberating. And he didn't really mean

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Speaker 1: it's okay to write a bad cha after. What we

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Speaker 1: meant was you don't wait for everything to be perfect exactly,

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Speaker 1: just sit down and do it, which is why that

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Speaker 1: Nike slogan has stayed with us for so long. Just

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Speaker 1: sit down, just do it. Um, what is it that

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Speaker 1: you like you've learned from him? Because there are so

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Speaker 1: many thriller authors and no one has had the longevity

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Speaker 1: out there that Brad Thor has, And like, what do

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Speaker 1: you think that is? Because also, unlike you or Tony

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Speaker 1: Tato who were talking about before A J. Tata, he

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Speaker 1: is not a military guy. Yet he consults with the

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Speaker 1: guys to say, like, am I getting the dialogue right?

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Speaker 1: Is the terminology right? You know? I'm just wondering from you.

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Speaker 1: What did you learn from him? Right? Yeah? That first

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Speaker 1: one of the give yourself permission to write a bad chapter?

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Speaker 1: Like I said, very very um liberating, but the most

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Speaker 1: important Each advice is something that uh, you know a

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Speaker 1: lot of people already know. But it was nice to

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Speaker 1: hear it. It was cool to hear from him, and

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Speaker 1: he said the only difference between a published author and

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Speaker 1: an unpublished author is that the published author never quit.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you know, to hear that that obviously resonated

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Speaker 1: with me because of of buds and how easy we

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Speaker 1: make it for guys to self select out of that program.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you know, it's just you know, if it's

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Speaker 1: just in life in general, you know, just never quit. Um.

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Speaker 1: So hearing that from him and hearing it about publishing

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Speaker 1: was was pretty cool. And uh and then he said, hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna help you. You go along this through

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Speaker 1: this process, but you know, at the at the end

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Speaker 1: of it, if you actually write a book. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna help you at all. But if you

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Speaker 1: do write one, um, I will let the I'll let

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Speaker 1: Simon and Schuster know that that you wrote one, and

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Speaker 1: um let him know it's coming. So that was all

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Speaker 1: on the door. So he didn't even read it. But

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Speaker 1: but you know, you've read it now. But at the time,

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Speaker 1: I think it's very safe. Yeah, it's more it was

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Speaker 1: it was safe for not to read it problem because

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Speaker 1: it was horrible. Then he could say, hey, I don't

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Speaker 1: even read this thing. Um, but uh yeah, so easy,

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Speaker 1: let Simon and choose her know it was coming, and

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Speaker 1: it ended up on Emily Bessler desk at Emily Bestler Books,

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Speaker 1: which is an imprint of Simon and Schuster's as publisher.

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Speaker 1: And uh, the next thing you know, we're off to

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Speaker 1: the races. It's awesome. Yeah, I could. I couldn't be

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Speaker 1: feel more fortunate. I'd love to also get into your

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Speaker 1: actual Navy Seal background, starting from I'd have to look

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Speaker 1: at my notes here, but nineteen seven. I went to

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Speaker 1: buds in early ninety seven. Yes, and what was like

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Speaker 1: the motivation to become a seal? I mean, I feel

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Speaker 1: like everybody has a different story from Drago has been

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Speaker 1: on here who literally like saw the movie Navy Seal

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Speaker 1: Charlie she and said I want to do this, so,

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Speaker 1: you know, other guys who just had adversity growing up.

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Speaker 1: I think it's always like a unique story. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Drago and I were on the East Coast together, so

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Speaker 1: well we're in a rack together. Um, great guy. Uh

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Speaker 1: and then yeah, yeah, it's been a few years since.

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Speaker 1: I think the last time I ran into him was

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Speaker 1: that shot show about three or four years ago. But

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Speaker 1: a great guy. Um yeah, So I always kne ab

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Speaker 1: want to join the military. Essentially from my earliest memories.

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Speaker 1: And my grandfather was in World War Two and he

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Speaker 1: was killed on the aircraft carrier Bunker Hill in May

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Speaker 1: five when two kama Kaze's the hit the aircraft carrier

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Speaker 1: that day. He was a pilot through that course air

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Speaker 1: which was that plane with the gold wings that would

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Speaker 1: fold up so you could fit him on the on

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Speaker 1: the deck and the first Kamakazi essentially was a direct

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Speaker 1: hit on the ready room and uh he was never

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Speaker 1: even found it was he still listed as missing an action.

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Speaker 1: But I grew up with and I almost sunk the carrier,

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Speaker 1: It took it out of the war. It limped back

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Speaker 1: to I think Seattle for repairs, but he never never,

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Speaker 1: never made it back to the UH to the war.

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Speaker 1: So I grew up with his pictures of his old squadron,

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Speaker 1: pictures of that plane, UH silk maps of the US

395
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Speaker 1: TV aviators back then so they could get wet and

396
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Speaker 1: wouldn't wouldn't disintegrate if they hit the water, his old medals,

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Speaker 1: his wings. So I grew up with that stuff, and

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Speaker 1: essentially he was even though I never knew him, um,

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Speaker 1: he was of the hero and to me as as

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Speaker 1: a little kid, uh, and then I think it a

401
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Speaker 1: It was aged seven, I found out what navy seals were.

402
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Speaker 1: So we were watching the back then, No no remote control.

403
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Speaker 1: I was a remote control for my dad during football

404
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Speaker 1: game and on Sundays. Uh, during the commercials, He'd look

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Speaker 1: at his watch and say go and I'd run up

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Speaker 1: to the TV. I had switched the channel from football

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Speaker 1: to whatever movie was playing on the opposite station, and

408
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,240
Speaker 1: back then it was usually um World War two movie

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Speaker 1: back then, and so we have two minutes to watch

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Speaker 1: that movie, and then I'd run back up, switch it

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Speaker 1: back to football, and sit and wait patiently until the

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Speaker 1: next commercial break. But one of those was The Frogman,

413
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Speaker 1: whold black and white film. The show guys crawling up

414
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Speaker 1: over the beach to blow up obstacles. And I asked

415
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Speaker 1: my dad, who are who are these guys? And uh,

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Speaker 1: he said those are Frogman? And I said was a Frogman?

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Speaker 1: And he said, ask your mother? And uh, So I

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Speaker 1: asked my mom and she was a librarian at the time,

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Speaker 1: and we went down to the local library the next

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Speaker 1: week and did a bunch of research. And this was

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Speaker 1: early eighties, so there's hardly anything, very little out there,

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00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,199
Speaker 1: very little out there there's a couple of mentions in

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Speaker 1: a couple of book chapters, a couple of magazine articles.

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Speaker 1: But my takeaway in age seven. One did Dick Marsenko's

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Speaker 1: book come out at nineties, I think was the Rogue War,

426
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Speaker 1: So this is a decade before that, um, well even earlier.

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Speaker 1: And uh, yeah, that takeaway was, hey, this is a

428
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,800
Speaker 1: pretty lead fighting force and the training is touted in

429
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,359
Speaker 1: these articles anyway, it's some of the toughest ever devised

430
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,879
Speaker 1: by modern military. So at age seven, they had me

431
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:05,880
Speaker 1: and that was I was in and I just kept

432
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,760
Speaker 1: my eye on that goal through junior high, high school, college,

433
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 1: and then I enlisted after college because the but then

434
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,280
Speaker 1: there's a little more out there Marsinko's books, the first

435
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,040
Speaker 1: two anyway, and come out. There was a little bit

436
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 1: more out there. There's no Internet yet, but you could

437
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 1: still there was there a few more books point Man

438
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,920
Speaker 1: was out there, um uh stuff exactly so that I

439
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,760
Speaker 1: was starting to come out in the wake of Marsenko's

440
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 1: first books and just uh, I like a similar experience.

441
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 1: I think like the first time I ever heard of

442
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 1: like special forces or special operations was watching um it

443
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,360
Speaker 1: was one of the Tom Clancy films that came out

444
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,080
Speaker 1: with Harrison Ford where there's like this mission where it

445
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 1: does in Danger where the s AS goes into the

446
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 1: desert and it's like covert operation. They raid a terrorist

447
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:50,600
Speaker 1: camp and they go into the tens and and I

448
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 1: remember I was probably ten or something like that, and

449
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,919
Speaker 1: I'm watching this with my mom and I was like, Mom, what,

450
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 1: Like I couldn't in my mind makes sense, Like is

451
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 1: this a war or is it not a war? What

452
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,479
Speaker 1: is this? And she's like it's a secret mission. I'm like,

453
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,360
Speaker 1: can they do that? She's like yeah. I was like,

454
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 1: all right, So you're a lot younger than I am.

455
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,359
Speaker 1: I think I was a was in freshman in college

456
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 1: when that movie came out. But I remember the guy

457
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 1: sipping the coffee that's a kill. Yeah yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah,

458
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 1: exactly exactly. So yeah right yeah. So that all that,

459
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 1: both that fiction and then all that the nonfiction that

460
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,160
Speaker 1: was coming out just kind of, you know, fed into

461
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,200
Speaker 1: what I wanted to do later and into my research.

462
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,119
Speaker 1: And um I through that research, I found out that

463
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 1: most officers aren't snipers, and I knew I wanted to

464
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 1: be a sniper. So even though I'd been in college,

465
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 1: I enlisted because I wanted to go to Snipper School

466
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,359
Speaker 1: and ended up doing that with Brandon. Actually we're in

467
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 1: the same Snipper class. Ye, same Snapper School class and uh,

468
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 1: and I was back in two thousands, so it's all

469
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 1: Vietnam era type tactics that we were still. Yeah, yeah,

470
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 1: more of a more of an art than a science.

471
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:53,440
Speaker 1: I would have to mention this because you know what's funny.

472
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,639
Speaker 1: I was like, Hey, I did see him the other day,

473
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 1: was a brand. Are you familiar with Jack Carr? But

474
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 1: I didn't, you know Jack Carr. It's not my birthday.

475
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 1: I met with a seal yesterday, actually former seal and uh,

476
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 1: Eric Davis was his instructor at Sniper School. I was like,

477
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 1: that's hilarious. Yeah, we had a good time, but it

478
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 1: was definitely more of an art back then, especially the

479
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 1: wind calls and all that. But I would think now,

480
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 1: especially with all the instruments, advancements in technology, and then

481
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 1: the experience that we've had Sincepteber eleventh. Um, you know,

482
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's more of a blend of art and

483
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: science at this point. But we fun to go back

484
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 1: through today and see what they're they're doing. You know

485
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 1: eighteen years later. Yeah, I mean, I think it's changed tremendously,

486
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 1: just like g watt era. You know, the technology is

487
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: growning leaps and bounds. And you said, it's more about

488
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 1: the math now than like trying to like eyeball the

489
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 1: wind calls and stuff like that. A lot more holds obviously,

490
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: great advances in in in scopes and how they do.

491
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: It's just it's incredible what I hear is going on

492
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: out there today. So, UM, pretty going. I'll be incorporating

493
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: the future novels, that's for sure. So what made you

494
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 1: want to make that jump then to officer? Yeah? So

495
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 1: I it was before September eleven, and I had some

496
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,440
Speaker 1: let's say, less than stellar leadership in my first couple

497
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 1: of platoons um, and so I was like, hey, I

498
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 1: can either complain about this or I can I can

499
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: go the officer route and do it better than it

500
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: was done for me. Um. But truth be told, had

501
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 1: September eleven happened in the spring of two thousand one,

502
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 1: I would have stayed enlisted and uh and gone that

503
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,439
Speaker 1: other route. But as it was was, I had to

504
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 1: make the decision in spring two thousand one, and when

505
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: I got back from my first or my uh next

506
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 1: deployment off, I went to o CS to fold underwear

507
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 1: and T shirts for three months, which somehow qualifies you

508
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 1: to lead men into battle, and then right back to

509
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: right back to the Seal teams. You don't have to

510
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 1: go through a um some sort I know they don't

511
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: make you go through buds of course, thanks second time,

512
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 1: thank god. But do you have to go through some

513
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 1: sort of like Seal officer indoctrination. I think now you

514
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 1: go back through s q T Seal qualification training. I

515
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: think it depends. I think they were Um, I didn't

516
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: have to do that. I went right Maybe it was

517
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: because of what was going on in the war at

518
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 1: the time, but I went back right back to the

519
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: Seal teams to see him team too, and then I

520
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: was out the door in Afghanistan within a within a

521
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: few weeks, which was great because I got some experience

522
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: very early on as an officer and um, yeah, this

523
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: kid couldn't put a it was. It was. It was

524
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: a great experience. And then got back to team too,

525
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 1: and then it was a couple of ract deployments after that,

526
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: but um, it was. It was a good run for

527
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 1: for being an officer. Um, it was a it was

528
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 1: a good, good run. So I feel very fortunate to

529
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:28,719
Speaker 1: have been able to do the things that I got

530
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: to do for as long as I got to do them. Yeah,

531
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 1: Ian was shown me your resume actually before I guess

532
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 1: the publicist shotted over to us and he was like,

533
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 1: I can't believe how many seal teams this guy's been.

534
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, he's an officer. So we

535
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: kind of had to go to where the billets were. Um,

536
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: but yeah, you had a totally awesome run. It was

537
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: pretty good for the timing was pretty you know, pretty good,

538
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: which is is a lot of it of course, and

539
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: U uh had great experience at at all my teams.

540
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: And but now I kind of look at it and say,

541
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: that's something I did, and it's always a part of me.

542
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: But now now I write, yeah, these some other things.

543
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: I have some other businesses only as well. But but

544
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 1: I love writing. I'm so passionate about writing the whole,

545
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 1: the whole process coming up with these the ideas and

546
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: kind of the outlines and figure out the titles and

547
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 1: then problem solving, just like we did on the battlefield overseas,

548
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: but doing it in fiction now so I'm just aggressively

549
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: solving problems on the written page instead of downrange with

550
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 1: with the guys. Fiction is a really good place I

551
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: find to explore ideas that, um, you couldn't do as

552
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: I say a journalist or a historian or something like that.

553
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: Or maybe maybe it's just something that's very controversial, or

554
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 1: maybe it's something that you're never really gonna establish all

555
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 1: the facts of. But fiction is a place where you

556
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: can kind of explore different ideas and like what what

557
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: you know? The what ifs? Sure, no, No, it's a

558
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 1: great place, great place for that great place to exercise

559
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 1: some of that creativity and continue to because that's what

560
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: it is. Creative, aggressive problem solving downrange, that's that's that's

561
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: what all it is. And uh doing the same thing

562
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 1: here in the pages of the of these books is

563
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: I find it to be one therapeutic and to a

564
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: lot of fun. And it's just I feel, like I said,

565
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: I keep saying, I feel very fortunate night because I

566
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: do to be doing what I wanted to do since

567
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 1: I was a little kid and have been working out

568
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 1: the way it is is beyond belief. Really. One of

569
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 1: the other things I wanted to ask you about just

570
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 1: going back to the military stuff. Was that I saw that, um,

571
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: when you were in the Seals, that your guys, you

572
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 1: and your guys had worked with um Iraqi counterparts. And

573
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people have this idea in

574
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: their head that seals or rangers like maybe that's something

575
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 1: SF guys do. I don't think they've realized that. Like

576
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: our entire military has basically been doing that in this war, right,

577
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: the foreign internal defense, UM, the thing has h we're

578
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: doing it before then, and we'll continue to do it

579
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: well into the future, I'm sure. But yeah. Book number

580
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: two actually takes an experience that I had working with

581
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: the Iraqis downrange and like two thousand and six I

582
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: think it was. And uh, I took it a certain

583
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: experience that happened, and I thought, hey, what if I

584
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: just fictionalized this and made it a lot more interesting

585
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: and uh, but but the so it is totally fiction,

586
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: but the inspiration behind book number two comes from from

587
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 1: a real real world. That's cool. Um, And of course

588
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: I totally fictionalized it. And say, but if this is

589
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: actually a movie, you're actually a great book. How would

590
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 1: I how would that read? And uh, it would be

591
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: way more firefights. For one, We'll have a lot more

592
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: of that. Get throwing some some beautiful women. Uh that

593
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: there's a little some some conspiracy. You gotta have some

594
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: bad guys out there too at the highest levels of government.

595
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 1: That's always fun. So um. Yeah, last year I did

596
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: some reporting from the Philippines and when I went and

597
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: visited NAVSOG, the Philippine Seals. I mean there's a American

598
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: Seal platoon. They're working with them and training them, and

599
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: I mean those guys were doing great work out there.

600
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: It's very strong relationship between American Seals and the Philippine Seals.

601
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: It's really cool to say, yeah, I got to spend

602
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: a little time down there. Uh, and that's where I

603
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: really know I had I think it was the first

604
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: time I had more Army SF guys UM working with

605
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 1: me than I did just seals. And uh, you know,

606
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: those guys have been studying unconventional warfare and studying um,

607
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,199
Speaker 1: you know, the culture and how to negotiate and do

608
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 1: all that sort of thing from day one in the

609
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: Q corpse, whereas ours is kind of after we do

610
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 1: all the aggressive stuff after we so it's kind of

611
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: a it's kind of the flip model. But I realized

612
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: that there was a great guy down there. I won't

613
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: say his name because I didn't ask him ahead of time,

614
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,719
Speaker 1: but a great warrant officer in ARMYSF that was down

615
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 1: there from first group. And uh, I realized that, man,

616
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: this guy knows what he's doing. He has been studying

617
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: this part of the world and studying um unconventional warfare

618
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: type stuff for a long time. And then that that's

619
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: Army warrant course for s F guys is awesome and

620
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: it's learned so much there. So that's when I started

621
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: catching up on some of my my studies rather than

622
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:35,959
Speaker 1: just how to kick in the best way to kick

623
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: in the door and take on a target and all

624
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: that stuff. And so just gonna open my aperture quite

625
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: a bit. And uh, the Philippine Marine General in charge

626
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: of our island became like a mentor to me. That's how.

627
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: That's how. Um it's his name, I'm forgetting his name

628
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: right now. He actually wrote a thesis that's my bookshelf

629
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: Um no Guerrero, I think Guerrero, I think, but great,

630
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: great guy and I just learned a ton from him.

631
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: So I just say, hey, you know, I'm kind of

632
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: I'm here to learn from you, and I got to

633
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: learn a lot on that deployment that actually found its

634
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: way into the pages of the book because that was

635
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: the time I could take a breath and actually study

636
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: in the environment where these guys have been countering this

637
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: insurgency for you know, hundred years plus. So they rebelling,

638
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: they're you know what they're doing. And Philippine Marines are great.

639
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: They're like so in so many ways, they're like a

640
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: mirror image of US marines. Like you could take a

641
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: Philippine marine and put them in the American Marine Corps

642
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: and like you wouldn't be able to tell the difference

643
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: between the two. Have the same haircut, seem stature exactly,

644
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: the same attitude exactly, and just living out there amongst

645
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: the amongst the populace down there, I learned a tons.

646
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: So it was great preparation for my next ploymage Iraq,

647
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: because then I had even more army SF guys than

648
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: we were, um you know, in those four southernmost provinces

649
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: of Southern Iraq for the drawdown and eventual withdraw but um, yeah,

650
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: it was it was great preparation for that. And I've

651
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: always had a great working relationship with with RMSF so, UM,

652
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: yeah it was. It was a good run. Yeah, absolutely,

653
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: And then uh, you went and did your you gotta

654
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: go do some staff time or at the training center.

655
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: I did, so when I got back, that's really when

656
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: I decided, Hey, it's it's time to get out. But

657
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: I still had a few years years left all I

658
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: hit that that twenty year mark. So actually the timing

659
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: worked out very well for me. So even though I

660
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: decided to get out when I got back from that deployment, um,

661
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: because up until that point, I mean, what you owe

662
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: it to the guys would be solely focused on the

663
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: mission at hand, so you owe them their families, you know,

664
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: the mission in the country. Um. But I found when

665
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: I wasn't taking guys down range and was now moving

666
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: to the training command as the as the ops officer.

667
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: So essentially for people not military listening, it's like a

668
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: CEO of a company just running day to day type operations. Um.

669
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: I had time to to take a breath and think

670
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: about that transition. And I know a lot of guys

671
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: don't get that. A lot of guys come right off

672
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: a deployment and then say I'm getting out, and then

673
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: they just have a certain number of months, um possibly

674
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: a year to make that transition. But they haven't had

675
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: the time to take a breath and really look around

676
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: and explore what they're their options are and maybe Internet

677
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: a few places to really understand, Okay, if I get

678
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: out of the military and move on to this other um,

679
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: this other sector, what is that really like? Is it

680
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: different than I've read? Uh, different than what I think

681
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: it's going to be like, different than the movies I've

682
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: seen about it. Um. So to really be able to

683
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: to explore their options. Um, Like I said, I had

684
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: that time, we don't have that. We interviewed uh Todd

685
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: of Pulski a few weeks back. He was a marine

686
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: once served in jay Sock and then came back to

687
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 1: the Marine Corps, and he was saying how fortunate he

688
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: was and that the last couple of years in the

689
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: Marine Corps is writing like policy letters or something. He

690
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: was or no, he's doing doctrine writing. And he was like,

691
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: it was great that I got to share some of

692
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: that knowledge with the force, but I also had a

693
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: breather behind the desk to start to get my wife

694
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: together before I retired exactly. That was very beneficial, and

695
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: being at the training commandment, I think buds is it's

696
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: a machine and it's it's moving, so whether you're there

697
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: or not, and it's so exactly as crushing souls daily.

698
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: But though that, the worst part actually was being to

699
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: My office was right there by the bell um. So

700
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: my door was always open because I don't think we

701
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: had air conditioning. It would go on at the wrong

702
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: times and it was anyway, so georgs were always open,

703
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: so I always had a view with that bell. So

704
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: I got to see pretty much everybody that would walk

705
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: up and stand there and ring that thing and put

706
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: their helmet down, and you just feel so bad for

707
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: these guys because you're like, you know that he could

708
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: have had the same dream for the same amount of

709
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: time that that I did growing up, and now he's

710
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: made the decision to to not continue with the program.

711
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: You can just see it in their eyes, and it's

712
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: that was that's the toughest part to see. You know,

713
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: you never you want the right guys to make it through,

714
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: so it's the necessary part of the process, but you

715
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: know when you see it, it's like, oh man, that's

716
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: just tough. Um and then of course the instructors just

717
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: they switch once you do that, and they're not the

718
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: you know, the nightmarees that that they were up until

719
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: that point, because you know, you want these guys to think, hey,

720
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: well and it's true that, hey, you can still go on,

721
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: you can still serve your country, you can still you

722
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: can think, take what you've learned here, um and apply

723
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: it to the rest of your life on forward. UM.

724
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: So make this a productive type of type of thing

725
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: rather than demoralizing. When um. When I went through the

726
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: Ranger indoctrination program, that was probably like the best tactic

727
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: they had because the guys who quit they got to

728
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: go sit by the fire eating m r. And I

729
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: remember one of the instructors coming and lecturing us, like

730
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 1: in the middle of a smoke session at like three

731
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: in the morning, and he was like, listen, men, you

732
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: can get up and quit right now, go sit by

733
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: the fire. You can still be a good Americans, could

734
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: be a good soldier. Just quit your your you know

735
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: your friends can't see you. You're all laying down in

736
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: the dirt. Just get up and quick go on. That

737
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: got more people to quit than you know, push ups

738
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: and flutter kicks all that interesting. It works. Yeah. I

739
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: remember being in buds in that surf, you know, start

740
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: a hell week and every racist starting to quit in droves,

741
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,959
Speaker 1: and uh, you know sometimes you guys would yell they

742
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: come back, come back, don't quit, And I was always

743
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: just kind of quiet because I was like, hate the

744
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: process is working. Yeah, yeah, I liked it. So I

745
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: feel bad saying that we added that. Um, but it

746
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: makes me sound like a terrible person. But you're being

747
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: honest about, you know, the process and and the job

748
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: that you had to do. I get it. Especially while

749
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: you're going through the process, you want to be one

750
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: of those last men standing. I get it, because you

751
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 1: can't have somebody who wants to figuratively ring the bell

752
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: in combat, Like yeah, you can't have it, and you

753
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: gotta trust that the guy next to you is gonna

754
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: stick it out with you. Yeah, let's say. Uh yeah,

755
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 1: So it seems to be working. And uh, you know

756
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: what we have to have a harder time with is

757
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: selecting for character. So it's easy to find that guy

758
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: that can run really fast and not quit, but how

759
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,439
Speaker 1: do you select for character? And I think it's true

760
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: across the border. Yeah, so I think it is Ralis do.

761
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: They do a few different things where the actually get

762
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: data points on that as the guys go through for

763
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: I think it's called probably changed the name, but Flotilla

764
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: third to their version of the Seals. So they do

765
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 1: things that uh uh, you know, give a group of

766
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: guy's shovels or paddles, untell them, hey, to dig a

767
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: foxhole for yourself and dig one for the for the

768
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: team here, and then I'll see which ones dig their

769
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: dig their own first and which ones jump in and

770
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: do the group one and interest a little little data point.

771
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 1: And so they do a few different things like at

772
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 1: where they collect some information on character and can drop

773
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: people for that um and so, yeah, I didn't know

774
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: that at all. That's really interesting. We don't necessarily do

775
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 1: that as well in our training pipelines. They might do

776
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: it now, but you know, has it when I left

777
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: it was still push up, sit ups, run upstacle course,

778
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 1: swim Well you can you can see the strains on

779
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: the military after sixteen years of war that you know,

780
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: starting to fray, the ethics, the morality, things like that

781
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: starting to fray a little bit. So I think you're right,

782
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: it's important to look at those things as well. Yeah,

783
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: at least add of points, at least have the you know,

784
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: the leadership has has options if you need to get

785
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: rid of somebody that is actually passing the course on paper.

786
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: But it doesn't have that, for lack of a better word,

787
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: team ability, doesn't have that that piece that we're looking for,

788
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: that intangible. Well, that's why you have non selects, right,

789
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,439
Speaker 1: guys who like like they we do it in the Army.

790
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,919
Speaker 1: I think the Navy does the same, like they can

791
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: like board guys out like technically they made it through

792
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: all these physical events, but that guy is not a

793
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: team player, right right, So yeah, I think we do

794
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 1: something similar, but you have to generate a lot of paperwork.

795
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: Uh so sometimes it sometimes guys do slip through like

796
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: any isn't that isn't that technically what happened to that

797
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: Dan Bills Arian guy. I mean he went through the

798
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: whole training twice, right, I believe I think I heard

799
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: him on Rogan and he talked something about something like that,

800
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: and then I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I wasn't

801
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: there at the time, but I and I believe Brandon

802
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: interviewed him for software at Yeah, and he taught you

803
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: years ago, and I think he talked about that he

804
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: you know, made it through Budgs did the entire thing physically,

805
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: and I guess at the very end I wouldn't know

806
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: because this is not my area expertise, but they were

807
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: just like, this is not the right guy for the job.

808
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 1: Maybe possibly, I don't know. Yeah, that's what I believe.

809
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: I was kind of revealed, and the interview you did

810
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: with Brian, I can tell you it definitely happens in

811
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 1: a Special Forces assessment and selection. You have guys who

812
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: do well on all the physical events, they make it

813
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: to the end of the course, but they're not selected,

814
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: not invited to come to the qualification course. Got it.

815
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: It's because the instructors see something right there and actually,

816
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: um they do a lot of UM team events and

817
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: s f A asked to see how you work with

818
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: other people? How do you how do you relate to

819
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: other people? And people end up becoming non selects because

820
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: of that. Interesting. Yeah, that's that's good. Yeah, that's good.

821
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: That's probably the most a more important trait than if

822
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: you you know, run your your three miles and you know,

823
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes or sixteen but how you how you do

824
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: it deal with the with the team aspects of this

825
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: and how you contribute. So that's really it's all about,

826
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: is is you know, adding value to the team and

827
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 1: is this person going to add value when he shows

828
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,760
Speaker 1: up at a seal team in his first platoon. Um,

829
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: and that's that's what you're really looking for. Super cool. Uh,

830
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: well this has been great and uh I did want

831
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: to ask one other thing though, um and get into this,

832
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: And was writing a fiction novel always a dream for

833
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: you the same way that being a seal was? Yeah,

834
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: pretty much exactly exactly the same. I just knew that

835
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: the military had to come first because you're kind of

836
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: on the clock. It's wise on that. So um, yeah

837
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: I was. I was definitely doing that first. So then

838
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: while you know, you were talking about the Philippines experience

839
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: while you were in the military, were you thinking like,

840
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to use this at some point when I

841
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: put out Okay, No, not really. Um, it just happened

842
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,720
Speaker 1: to to work out that way that all that studying

843
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 1: I did applies to what I'm writing now in the

844
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: fictional sense, as do the experiences. But at the time

845
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 1: I wasn't I didn't write, I didn't practice, I didn't

846
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: think about storylines. I didn't do anything except really study

847
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: the enemy and uh try to make our our platoons

848
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: and troops the best I could going down range. Well,

849
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: because it reminds me of brand Thor actually said this

850
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: the last time it was on. You know, your first novel,

851
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: you have like your whole wife to write, you know,

852
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 1: and then the second like there's a due date you

853
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: need to get it out that next year. So I'm wondering, like,

854
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: is this book the dream that you had for many years?

855
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: Like this same idea? This is it? I mean it's

856
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 1: although I wasn't thinking about it. Um, what this became

857
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: through the writing process is really that dream? Is Uh?

858
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 1: That's that's it. This is uh, you know that the

859
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 1: best I could do out of the out of the

860
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,320
Speaker 1: Gates for a for a debut novel. And uh, that

861
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: seems to be resonating with people. And I couldn't have

862
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 1: scripted it better. Like when did that protagonist idea comes

863
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 1: to your mind? I think it was December of everything.

864
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: The dates are in my my elder years here on.

865
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: The dates are kind of blending together, but you know,

866
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: about about a year before I got out, It's like okay,

867
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: now it's time to have time. I'm not taking guys

868
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 1: down range anymore. Um, and then my only job now

869
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: is to figure out how to get out of the

870
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: military administratively. I seem to have a little more time

871
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: on my hands and I've had the last nineteen years,

872
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: and uh, I can start thinking about this. And so

873
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 1: really it came together fairly quickly. Is the idea for

874
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: the protagonist, protagonist name, the title, um and all that other.

875
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: All those things came together fairly quickly. And then it

876
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 1: was just time to time to write and continue down

877
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: that path and um problem solved on the written page.

878
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: Very cool. And then what other authors besides brad Thor

879
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: were inspired? You know, Stephen Hunter absolutely amazing. So he

880
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,399
Speaker 1: wrote Put a Point of Impact, which became the movie

881
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 1: Shooter with Mark Wahlberg. Um and uh he and it

882
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: so happened that I just I knew him through his daughter,

883
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: which was crazy. So uh so we got to reach

884
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 1: out to him and he wrote a nice blurb for

885
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 1: the book. Couldn't have been nicer. Just an amazing guy.

886
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: And he's not on social media or anything. He's uh,

887
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 1: he's an old school UM. But he think he read

888
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: some amazing things and I've been a fan since I've

889
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 1: been caught some from college when i've read pointed them

890
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: back for the first time. Um. Of course, Vince Flynn's

891
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: Term Limits, he's just one of my one of my favorites,

892
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: even though it doesn't feature Mitch Rapp, who was the

893
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: protagonist of his next novels. Um but all of them

894
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 1: were great, but Term Limits in particular was his his

895
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: first one in his debut and and uh, you know,

896
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 1: the one that he had the time to write without

897
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: a due date, and uh you know some of that

898
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: charming school back Nelson de Mill in the eighties classic

899
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 1: right there, Brotherhood of the Rose, David Morrell also back

900
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 1: in the eighties. Um But there's so much great stuff

901
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: out there, and I think that's why everybody in this

902
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: um in and publishing has been so welcoming, which is

903
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: not how I thought it was going to be. You know,

904
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: from the outside, starting into a new a new field,

905
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: you think that the people that have been there, that

906
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: are established, might keep your arms length, and uh not

907
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 1: with the new competition coming in. And that's what I thought.

908
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,800
Speaker 1: And it has been one eight out from that. Everyone

909
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 1: has been so welcoming and so kind and generous with

910
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: their time because I think they realized that, hey, there's

911
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: room for there's room for good books out there, and

912
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: there's room for a lot of good books out there.

913
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: So um, yeah, it's just to have a dude with

914
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: your background who served twenty years in naval special warfare

915
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: and you know, you're not paired up with a ghostwriter,

916
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: you're illiterate. Guy wrote a book on your I mean

917
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: that's so I do have a writing partner, so it's

918
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: not a ghostwriter, but but somebody for the first book

919
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: to help you. But we're yeah, we're partners in it.

920
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 1: And he's a great guy. Um, and it's coming from

921
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 1: that team background. It's uh, I found it. So originally

922
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to him because he comes from

923
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical industry, which is not a very popular industry at

924
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: the moment watching the news. So I will refrain from

925
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 1: from naming exactly where he works, but there's us a

926
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 1: part of the book that deals with pharmaceutical industry and

927
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,760
Speaker 1: that's where the drugs and the conspiracy come in. So um,

928
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: but he's always wanted to write fictional thrillers since he

929
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: was a kid as well, and so in talking he

930
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: just became so apparent it was just natural to let's

931
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,240
Speaker 1: partner up on this, and coming from that team background,

932
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: it really helps to discuss it with some run and

933
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 1: be able to talk through exactly. And um, you know,

934
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: so it's almost like if you create a piece of

935
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: art and you unveil it to a crowd for the

936
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 1: first time with no one else having seen it before

937
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: and the gasps of oh my gosh, that's horrible or whatever.

938
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: So this way, you at least have another set of

939
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 1: eyes that you trust on it ahead of time, you

940
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 1: bounce ideas back and forth, you can problem solve together

941
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: as a team. So and he had no military background

942
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: at all, but that it brings that pharmaceutical side of

943
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: the house in there. He has a legal background as well,

944
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: some lobbying background for the DC side of this, for

945
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: the political side of that. It really made this a

946
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,439
Speaker 1: it's not an operations order, you're right exactly. So really

947
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 1: the game a you know, it was a great friendship.

948
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,879
Speaker 1: That's that's gotten even stronger because of the writing we've

949
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: done together. And uh, you know, I'm the I'm the

950
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: face of it and on the on the front guy

951
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: because of my background and and everything else. But it

952
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: really is a script team effort, and I feel very

953
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: fortunate that that I have that advantage. You're you're also

954
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: doing something that's kind of uncharted and that I mean,

955
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 1: there's so many teammates of yours writing memoirs. You're I

956
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: don't know if the only guy or one of the

957
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: only Navy Seals writing a military thriller at least that

958
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 1: I know of. You Well, Dick Marsinco kind of sure

959
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 1: cloud right through that, But I'm thinking of of you know,

960
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: the g WAT veterans and stuff. I feel like it's

961
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 1: all memoirs. There are some people who like uh, Dalton Fury,

962
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: he wrote uh sort of not really a memoir, but

963
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: a book about his experience in Afghanistan. Um has a

964
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,800
Speaker 1: Delta Force commander and then he kind of segued into

965
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: writing fiction. Actually very good fix. But of the Seals,

966
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: I can't think of anyone other than as said, Dick

967
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: Marsinko is writing fiction. But you know, like the guys

968
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,959
Speaker 1: we have on this show, whether it's Rob O'Neill or

969
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: you know, Brand and all that, you know, they've all

970
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 1: written memoirs and and you're going a different path exactly,

971
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: and I you know, I had a great run, like

972
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: we talked about, but you know, I just want to

973
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: focus on the on the fiction. Um. And plus it

974
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,760
Speaker 1: is it is a little maybe maybe a little saturated

975
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: out there, and I you know, I could ask about

976
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 1: that a lot. Hey, what do you think of this

977
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 1: book or that book that that A seal Is has written.

978
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: That's that's nonfiction. And I like to frame it as,

979
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: you know, that's that person's perspective of either a mission

980
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: or his time in that profession of arms. Uh. And

981
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: that's how it should be viewed, as that person's perspective,

982
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: and it'll you know, become a part of it would

983
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: be a firsthand account one of a larger historical rat

984
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,280
Speaker 1: will be that person's perspective and a valuable perspective as well. Uh.

985
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: And there's also history president worldwide, not just in this country,

986
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: of people writing about their military experiences. I mean, Grant

987
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: has his memoirs. Um. And Uh, it's what's it's it's

988
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: not a new thing. What is new is the exposure

989
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: for that sort of thing from the social media side

990
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 1: of the house, which is where a lot of people,

991
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,760
Speaker 1: UM struggle uh with it because there's just so many

992
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: different ways and uh, the guys can can mess up

993
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: that exposure. UM. So anyways, that's kind of that's what

994
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: I but I think I think what you're pointing out

995
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 1: something really important though, that down the line, decades from now,

996
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: we're gonna be able to take these books, these first

997
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: hand accounts um from different people, different soldiers on the ground,

998
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: and we're gonna be able to combine that with declassified documents,

999
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,839
Speaker 1: declassified drone footage. I mean, there's gonna be such a

1000
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: plethora of information, specially from this war, more so than

1001
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: any other in the past, that you're gonna be able

1002
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,320
Speaker 1: to combine all of these and have a more accurate

1003
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 1: historical record than we've had for any war in the past.

1004
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: I think you're right. It's gonna hard. Part's gonna be

1005
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 1: sifting through all that data. Um. You know that that's

1006
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: that's going to be the challenge. Uh. And even though

1007
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 1: this was fiction, I still wanted to submit it to

1008
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 1: a d O d UM because if you read that

1009
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: regulation about from the Department of Defense Office of Pre

1010
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 1: Publication Interview, I just wanted to honor my former security clearances.

1011
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: So I submitted this to the d D. And the

1012
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 1: next one is, is there now getting reviewed, and they

1013
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 1: took out a few sentences. So I even though the fiction,

1014
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: uh that I left them redacted in the novel one

1015
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 1: because I didn't want to try to write around them.

1016
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 1: I didn't know if I had to then write around

1017
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: them and then re submit and wait another two to

1018
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: month or two for them to get packed to me

1019
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: on it. So I just left them redacted as they

1020
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 1: were taking out by the d D. So they're they're

1021
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: kind of near the end of the book there, but

1022
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 1: they took out five or six sentences. I mean, you've

1023
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,399
Speaker 1: had a far better experience with D O D than

1024
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: I have. I mean I wrote an article, um, and

1025
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: it was interviewing guys who were in Special Forces Detachment

1026
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: A in Berlin. So it's like a five six thousand

1027
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 1: word article. That thing is still sitting with D O

1028
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 1: D on appeal. It's been years. Oh the appeal they

1029
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: can take a while. I also didn't want to appeal

1030
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: anything because when I read how long it could take,

1031
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 1: they can string that out for quite some time. Um,

1032
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 1: So I just left their redactions in. But I thought

1033
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: there was a different regulation that pertained to media and

1034
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: you know news, so it's not the same regulation that

1035
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: applies to memoirs and and uh in fiction if you

1036
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: interpret that regulation um conservatively. But there's another one that

1037
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 1: applies to people. That's why I why people can go

1038
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 1: on CNN or Fox News and the day after they

1039
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 1: retire and talk about ongoing military operations without anyone reviewing

1040
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: it because it's a different regulation. But it's also I

1041
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: think the Department of Justice just the rules applied differently

1042
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 1: if you have a certain rank and if you were

1043
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 1: say you were the director of the c I a like,

1044
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 1: if it was a lower and underling that went on

1045
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: CNN and made those comments, like they could be looking

1046
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: at being prosecuted, but no one's gonna d o J

1047
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 1: is not going to prosecute. John Brennan, former d C. I. Yeah,

1048
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 1: I just wanted to make sure. I want to give

1049
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 1: the government uh as little as I can. I understand, Yeah,

1050
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 1: let's go after me. So yeah, it's why why I

1051
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: send it in and then you know it kind of works,

1052
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 1: you know, makes a little more mysterious, is that, Hey,

1053
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 1: what do they take out? Can I figure out what

1054
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: they took out here? And all that. I was really

1055
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 1: surprised by what they did take out because it's are

1056
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 1: there things that are are part of the national dialogue

1057
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: and easily google a bull. But yeah, it's always weird

1058
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: how it goes. Yeah, I was. I was surprised that

1059
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 1: somethings they didn't take out Actually, like this might be

1060
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: a little dicey. They couldn't care less about that more

1061
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: the kind of the explosive stuff that I talked about

1062
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: in here, and I left I left at least one

1063
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 1: major point point portion out so that a kid couldn't

1064
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: actually recreate some of the things that the protagonist does

1065
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 1: in the book. It's interesting to the c I a

1066
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: public review board. They for some reason, they always take

1067
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: out the term special operations. Interesting, they don't like that term,

1068
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 1: and they replace it with special forces. That's odd, Yeah,

1069
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: it is. I don't get it. Remember Rob O'Neil's book,

1070
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 1: Seal Team six is blacked out. All big parts of

1071
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: it are no just just the words seal teams. Yeah,

1072
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: as if we don't know what he's talking that. Well,

1073
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: that's the thing whenever we uh, not all the time,

1074
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 1: but a lot of times we'll interview Jay Sock guys

1075
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: and they refer to I served in the Army Special

1076
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: Mission Unit, right, And it's like when you say that

1077
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: everyone knows what you're talking about. So like, why do

1078
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: we have to dress it up? What about the email

1079
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: I got where they were like he and stop using

1080
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,399
Speaker 1: the D word that the wors So it's like, really,

1081
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to say Army counter Terrorism Unit, Like,

1082
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,280
Speaker 1: come on, guys. So in the back of the book,

1083
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 1: have a glossary of terms. They took a few things

1084
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 1: out of that. But if we go to the D

1085
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 1: where is there a good word? Yeah, there we go.

1086
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 1: So there we go. So they took out this part.

1087
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: They blacked out a little part of that. Yeah, but

1088
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:41,120
Speaker 1: they let me keep the word in there so I

1089
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 1: could say the word. And then I said at Classic

1090
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: Films String Chuck Norris, titled three, autobiography about the unit's

1091
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,720
Speaker 1: first commanding officer and popular name for the Army Special

1092
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 1: blacked out so very interesting, very interesting. So yeah, I

1093
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 1: always like to have when I was a kid, I

1094
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:58,879
Speaker 1: like going having a glossary of terms in the back

1095
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 1: of military ex sense. So because there's probably you know,

1096
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 1: a ten year old, thirteen year old kid who wants

1097
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 1: to read this, who wants to do what you did. Yep, no, exactly.

1098
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 1: Next time, though, I'm gonna mention it in the author's

1099
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:11,359
Speaker 1: note in the beginning that there's a glossy in the back,

1100
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:12,879
Speaker 1: because a lot of people have mentioned that they didn't

1101
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: know that there was a glosstery in the back and

1102
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: they wish they'd known that. We're acronym heavy. Yeah, yeah,

1103
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 1: I try to explain it as I go along with

1104
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 1: there's a few times in dialogue or whatever, what doesn't

1105
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 1: make sense to do that? And uh, there's also a

1106
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: few little gems in the back there for for people.

1107
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: So I didn't make it a cut and dry glossary.

1108
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: There's some from people that have been in the in

1109
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: the military, or people that are the semi political. They'll

1110
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 1: they'll find some humor woven into that glossary. So I

1111
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: want I wanted to make it a kind of part

1112
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 1: of the storyline as well as with the acknowledgments. I

1113
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 1: wanted to thank everybody that has helped me over the years,

1114
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 1: and really took it as an opportunity to to be

1115
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: able to say thank you to everybody that helps me

1116
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 1: and my family as we transition. It's awesome. Well, the

1117
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 1: book is the Terminal List. It's available everywhere books are sold.

1118
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: You could follow Jack on Twitter or Instagram at Jack

1119
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 1: Carr USA. That's two rs and Car Jack c A

1120
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: R R U SA. The website is official Jack car

1121
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: dot com. Wrapping things up here when Super Believer come

1122
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: out next spring, so I think April two is what's

1123
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 1: what's on the count? All right now? That would be

1124
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: wonderful New York. I'd love to love to come in

1125
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: and say, how do you guys hopefully bring some movie

1126
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 1: news along with me. That'll be a yeah, you know that.

1127
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: And there's you know, hope to see like more movies

1128
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: out with guys of your background where you're gonna be

1129
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,439
Speaker 1: there making sure like is the dialogue right? Is the act?

1130
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 1: Are the action sequences right? Because you guys pointed out

1131
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: all the time when you see these movies and you're like,

1132
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 1: what you know? Zero Dark thirty is the one I

1133
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:38,879
Speaker 1: heard the most criticism of. But oh gosh, um, all right, well,

1134
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: wrapping things up here, there's only one club out there

1135
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: with gear handpicked by special operations military veterans from several branches,

1136
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 1: and that of course is Great Club. Looking forward to

1137
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 1: the future collaboration we're doing with nf W Watches for

1138
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: an exclusive Great Club watch for Premium Tier members that's

1139
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 1: coming soon. We have different tiers of membership depending on

1140
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 1: how prepared you want to be, and ift options are

1141
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 1: available as well. You can check that all out at

1142
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 1: Create Club dot Us. Once again, that's Create Club dot

1143
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: Us Free dog owners. Check this out. You're gonna love this.

1144
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 1: We've just partnered with Kuna. They have a team of

1145
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:15,359
Speaker 1: trained canine handlers picking out a box for your dog

1146
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,760
Speaker 1: every month of healthy treats and training aids. It's custom

1147
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 1: built through your dogs size and age as well. The

1148
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,439
Speaker 1: products are US sourced, all natural, and they not only

1149
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 1: promote a healthy diet, but also promote being active with

1150
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 1: your dog. So whether we're talking to pit bull or

1151
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: at chihuahua, this is just what you're looking for. And

1152
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: you can see all of that at Kuna dot Dog.

1153
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,760
Speaker 1: That's kuned dot Dog. It's efficient for you. Your dog's

1154
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: gonna appreciate it as well, of course, and that's spelled

1155
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: c U n A dot d O G. Also, as

1156
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: a reminder for those listening and watching now that we're

1157
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 1: doing these YouTube videos, uh, for a limited time you

1158
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:52,879
Speaker 1: can receive a fifty percent discounted membership to the spec

1159
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:57,760
Speaker 1: ops channel, our channel that offers the most exclusive shows, documentaries,

1160
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 1: and interviews covering the most excite eating military content today.

1161
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: Spec Ops channel premier show Training Cell follows former Special

1162
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 1: Operations Forces as they participate in the most advanced training

1163
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,800
Speaker 1: in the country, everything from shooting school's, defensive driving, jungle

1164
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: and winter warfare, climbing and much more. Again, you can

1165
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 1: watch this content by subscribing to the spec Ops channel

1166
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 1: and that's a spec Ops channel dot com take advantage

1167
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:27,439
Speaker 1: of a limited time offer offer membership it's only four

1168
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 1: a month. The iOS app is available as well as

1169
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 1: the Android app. Uh and with that, I mean this

1170
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 1: has been awesome. Any other stuff that you're plugging and

1171
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 1: you're seeing some charity work, anything else you want to

1172
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,359
Speaker 1: get out there or yeah, no, I think they We're

1173
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 1: putting the on the website, the different foundations that that

1174
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: support that that I've had had some experience with over

1175
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 1: the years. But there's also for the guys that are

1176
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: really into the gear side of the house, the website

1177
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: goes into some more detail on the guns and knives

1178
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:55,319
Speaker 1: in my personal experience with those. So if anybody wants

1179
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 1: a little more information on some of the gear and

1180
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: weapons that are using the book, then now that's that's

1181
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 1: on the website. Awesome. Well, this has been a pleasure.

1182
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:06,320
Speaker 1: Love having in here and love you know, having guys

1183
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 1: on of your background, and yeah, I really appreciate it.

1184
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 1: Thanks us again for you guys for joining us for

1185
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: our first new setup of this YouTube thing. If you're

1186
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 1: watching on YouTube, hopefully enjoyed it. We'll be doing more

1187
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: of these. Keep spreading the word, thanks guys. Yeah, you've

1188
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 1: been listening to Self Rep Radio. New episodes up every

1189
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 1: Wednesday and Friday for all of the great content from

1190
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 1: our veteran journalists. Join us and become a team room

1191
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 1: member today at solf rep dot com. Follow the show

1192
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: on Instagram and Twitter at self Rep Radio, and be

1193
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 1: sure to also check out the Power of Thought podcast

1194
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 1: hosted by Hurricane Group CEO and Navy Seal Sniper instructor

1195
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 1: Brandon Webb, M