1 00:00:01,240 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I think you guys 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: are really going to like this podcast because when I 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: talk to this lady a few months ago, I was like, Wow, 4 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: this is like all the answers that we're looking for, 5 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: because right now I know everyone is asking what is 6 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: the political message for twenty four and I have shared 7 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: in my opinions, but of course those are just opinions. 8 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: But I did meet Melanie a few months ago, and 9 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: she is, I guess, I would say, a messaging guru. 10 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: In fact, she coaches candidates, elected officials, even executives, and 11 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: that's what she does for a living. She's here to 12 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: tell us how she helps people craft the right message 13 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: to be persuasive and successful. But before we get into that, 14 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: you know, I always like to talk to you about 15 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: your health, and I think that's important because you can't 16 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: put a price on your health. And I like to 17 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: share that I stay energized and keep doing what I 18 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: love every day because I get the maximum servings and 19 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: nutrition of fruits and vegetables every day. 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You should check out all the 34 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: testimonials from people like you on their website to see 35 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,639 Speaker 1: how Balance of Nature is making a difference in their lives. 36 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: So go now to Balance of Nature dot com and 37 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: get thirty five percent off your first preferred order shipped 38 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: free with promo code tutor. Now let's get back to 39 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: that other messaging, because that's really important. Let's welcome in 40 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: Melanie Stern to the podcast. She is the founder of 41 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: Engaged to Win and the win coach. Like I said, 42 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: where she coaches elected officials, candidates and corporate executives in 43 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: the art of persuasion and winning over and even skeptical audience. 44 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: And right now, I think everybody's a little bit skeptical 45 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: out there, so we need your help. 46 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 2: Well, thank you, and I'm delighted to be on your show. 47 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 2: I'm a big fan. You are such an insightful interviewer, 48 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 2: so I'm looking forward to our conversation. Not sure I'm 49 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: going to come up with a winning message for twenty four, 50 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 2: but I think actually between the two of us we 51 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 2: probably could. 52 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: Well. You know, it's funny because I've talked ever since 53 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: I talked to you, so I'll just tell our audience here. 54 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: When I spoke to you, I think you said something 55 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: really critical because we talked about this trans messaging and 56 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: that has been a really hot topic on the right 57 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: side of the aisle with folks talking about protecting kids 58 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: from transies and things like that, and you made a 59 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 1: really interesting point and like that is really going after 60 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: an individual. People see that as going after an individual 61 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: instead of protecting that individual. And you have to be 62 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 1: careful about how you talk about things like that. Really 63 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: something that I hadn't fully understood, But as I've seen 64 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: it play out, I'm like, wow, this is really true. 65 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: If somebody feels like you are in any way attacking 66 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,959 Speaker 1: a person, they really get turned off. And those few 67 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: people that you wanted to bring over from the center, 68 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 1: you're not winning them, right exactly. 69 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 2: That's my power of persuasion number three. The winning side 70 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 2: always fights for people, not against not for against things, 71 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 2: and definitely not against people. So when we come across 72 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: as fighting against trans it's not a surprise that we 73 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 2: get misconstrued as wanting or accused at least of wanting 74 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 2: to commit transgenocide. That's why I always say we should 75 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,839 Speaker 2: be fighting for the people who are hurt by that policies. 76 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 2: So in this case, we would be fighting for the 77 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 2: children who are neither cognitively or developmentally prepared to consider 78 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 2: such controversial, even radical ideas. Why would you ever want 79 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 2: to put in the mind of a young child that 80 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 2: they may have been born in the wrong body, that 81 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 2: they could change it. And we want to fight for people, 82 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 2: fight for the parents, I mean, who should have the 83 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: sole discretion to decide whether and when to expose their 84 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 2: children to these ideas. And of course, in the case 85 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 2: you're talking about we want to fight for girls and 86 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 2: women and their sports for example. 87 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: Right, So you mentioned that was number three because you 88 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: have six powers of persuasion that you talk to people about. 89 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: And that's something that honestly, I love this because there's 90 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: no one that does this. I mean, at least I 91 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: didn't have this experience. 92 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 3: You know. 93 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: It's like you have consultants who sit down and they're like, Okay, 94 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: I think this is the message for Michigan. But there's 95 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: nobody that really is co reaching you on how to 96 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: express the express that message in the right way, how 97 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: to talk about it, how to win people over. So 98 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 1: if you can just kind of go through those powers 99 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: of persuasion with us, sure. 100 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 2: And I guess I should say I came to this 101 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 2: over a period of time having been writing a column 102 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 2: in my background's finance. But I started to write a 103 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 2: column where I live here in Aspen, Colorado, for an 104 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: audience that was predisposed to disagree with me. 105 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 3: And I don't know when I started writing. 106 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: Anybody who knows anything about Aspen it is very liberal. 107 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 2: Yes, And in fact, the editor of the Aspen Times, 108 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 2: when he approached me, he asked if I would help 109 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 2: him diversify the opinion page, and I always joke it's 110 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 2: not because he needed a woman or a Jew. 111 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 3: And I just didn't want to. 112 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 2: I didn't want to be the scourge of Aspen and 113 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 2: had he approached me because I had been doing point 114 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 2: counterpoints with the Democrats prior to the twenty ten mid term, 115 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 2: and I told him I would do it, but I 116 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 2: didn't want to parent Republican talking points. And I launched 117 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 2: my column calling it think Again. You might change your mind, 118 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 2: don't have to. And so the idea was that I 119 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 2: wanted to expose readers to unconsidered facts and arguments. 120 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 3: Trust me, here they weren't. 121 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: And in the process, my premise was that in order 122 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 2: to have a free and fair society, we have to 123 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 2: have an informed and thoughtful citizenry. 124 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 3: And that's what I was trying to do. And I. 125 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 2: Read up on all the masters of communication, from Dale 126 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 2: Carnegie to Simon Sinek and Stephen Covey and others, and 127 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 2: I adopted a writing style that made me hearable. And 128 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 2: one of the things that I discovered is that there's 129 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 2: a difference between expressing your opinion as in an op 130 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 2: ed and actually persuading which is what I wanted to do. 131 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 2: I really wanted to change minds. I think again, you 132 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 2: might change your mind. And what I found having adopted 133 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 2: this readable writing style is that not only did I 134 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 2: become popular, you know from social media metrics, but people 135 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 2: did not perceive me as ideological. And so when I 136 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: realized that, I tried to put together a list of 137 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 2: the things that I was doing. 138 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 3: That was making myself readable. 139 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 2: And it was around that time, in twenty fifteen, that 140 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 2: I launched Engaged to Win to share that. And so 141 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 2: I have these six powers of persuasion. And Mark Twain said, 142 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 2: if I had more time, I could have written something shorter. 143 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 2: So I've been at this now for a while, and 144 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 2: I've condensed what I learned in writing my column into 145 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 2: these six powers of persuasion. And so the first one 146 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 2: is about you are the message, your nonverbal cues and 147 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 2: sixty you probably know this while having been a candidate, 148 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: sixty to ninety percent of in person communication is actually nonverbal. 149 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 2: You can make people predisposed to like you or dislike 150 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 2: you depending on your your nonverbal communication cues. The second 151 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 2: one is and everything really centers around the second one. 152 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 2: The others are all designed to help you achieve the 153 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 2: second one, which is find the common ground and try 154 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 2: to stay on the common ground. 155 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 3: And definitely start with common ground because. 156 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: That's really nice, interesting to me because we find it 157 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: so hard to do that today. So how do you 158 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: do that? Because we talk a lot on the podcast 159 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: about we have groups that are in black and white 160 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: and nobody is in the gray area, and that's where 161 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: most of the decisions are made in the gray. So 162 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: how do we get people to that common ground? 163 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 2: Well, I actually, and I challenge you, tutor to see 164 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 2: if I can't do this. I actually think with one message, 165 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,719 Speaker 2: we can appeal to persuadables while powering down hostels and 166 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 2: not giving them ammunition to use against us, and then 167 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 2: uniting our friendlies, which is becoming incre singly difficult, especially 168 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 2: as we go into this primary year and election year. 169 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 2: And so how do you do that? So finding the 170 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 2: common ground? The way I put it is that you 171 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: want to say something that you know is going to 172 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 2: resonate with the person you're talking to, and from just 173 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 2: to condense it to we know from social science and 174 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 2: behavioral science that people things that you say that will 175 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: resonate with people generally are when you fight for people, 176 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 2: and you use a fairness and compassion frame. So that's 177 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 2: power persuasion three and four right there, And I'll be 178 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 2: happy to demonstrate this in a second, but just to 179 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 2: give you the fifth power of persuasion is the power 180 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 2: of the story. I just need to say George Floyd, 181 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: and that story you obviously know, propelled a huge movement. 182 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 2: And then the sixth is the power of the pivot 183 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 2: to come back to that common ground you're I think 184 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 2: Reagan said your eighty percent friend isn't your twenty percent foe. 185 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 2: So there are certain rhetorical devices I teach that can 186 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 2: help you get back to that common ground. One of 187 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 2: them is to say I worry. And people don't care 188 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 2: how much you know until they know how much you care. 189 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 2: So when you say I worry, you're conveying that you care, 190 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 2: and then it's going to really force you to pivot 191 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 2: to a persuasive message, a fairness and compassion frame, message 192 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 2: fighting for people. And so the other thing is a 193 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 2: very important way to find common ground or pivot back 194 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 2: to common ground, is to ask a question. And so 195 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,319 Speaker 2: I'll just demonstrate with a pretty non controversial issue. Well 196 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 2: it's controversial, but it's not as vexing. Let's say, as 197 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 2: the trans issue that we're always on the defensive end. 198 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 2: But let's just take increasing the minimum wage. So it's 199 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 2: actually the case that a majority of people are for 200 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 2: increasing the minimum wage, including Republicans, and we have when 201 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 2: people are fighting against it, they have a tendency to 202 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 2: talk about business, and that's a very Republican thing, talk 203 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 2: about business. 204 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 3: But what I always. 205 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 2: Teach is identify the most vulnerable people who are hurt 206 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 2: by a bad policy and fight for them. And conversely, 207 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 2: if you have a good policy, identify the most vulnerable 208 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 2: who are helped by that good policy and fight for them. 209 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 2: So in the case of minimum wage, you could say 210 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 2: I believe in a living wage. I just worry about 211 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 2: young minorities. And if they can't get a job at 212 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 2: ten dollars an hour, how will they ever get a 213 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 2: job at fifteen dollars an hour? And if they can't 214 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 2: get their hand on that opportunity ladder, how will they 215 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 2: ever climate to a living wage? And that's not fair. 216 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 2: I always say, if you could say that's not fair, 217 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 2: you're persuading. So there I sort of put it all 218 00:11:58,320 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 2: together in that one example. 219 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 220 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. You look at twenty twenty four 221 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: right now, I mean a lot is happening, and people 222 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: are trying to figure out how to not only talk 223 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: about it, but not offend while talking about it. I mean, 224 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: if you look at just what happened on October seventh, 225 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: we now have seen in America we really have never 226 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: seen because we have an America divided on race and ethnicity, 227 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: really and so you have these universities where we see 228 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: students that are out there and they are defending Hamas, 229 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: and we have Jewish students who are going, how can 230 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:53,719 Speaker 1: you do this? How do you argue that in this 231 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: political environment right now? I know, obviously we see Republicans 232 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: who are saying stand with Israel, we take care of Israel. 233 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 1: But you have a lot of these arguments that are 234 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: saying exactly what you're saying. I worry about the Palestinians. 235 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: I don't think this is fair. So how do you 236 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,559 Speaker 1: have that conversation with folks in that that don't really 237 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: who have never been involved in this conflict before and 238 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: suddenly are now out their marching right. 239 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 2: So one of the silver linings of the catastrophe of 240 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: October seventh is that that curtain has been Pulot movement 241 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 2: that has taken over not just universities, but it's. 242 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 3: K through twelve. 243 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 2: And I work a lot with school board members, candidates 244 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 2: for office, activists who want to speak up at school 245 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 2: board meetings. And I was just out in California where 246 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 2: they actually have an ethnic studies curriculum and a mandate 247 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 2: that all students who graduate from California high schools have 248 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 2: to pass this this curriculum, have to pass this ethnic 249 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 2: studies test. And what it's teaching is that and this 250 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 2: will sound familiar because it's what you're hearing said about Israel. 251 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 3: The irony is it. 252 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 2: Actually isn't true. It's the least true of Israel compared 253 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 2: to any of the other Western nations that it applies to, which, 254 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 2: by the way, are the freest, most prosperous, most decent, 255 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 2: most fair societies in human history. But what they're teaching 256 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 2: that the white supremacists who settled America, so they crossed 257 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 2: the plains. I grew up in Omaha, Nebraska, and I 258 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 2: used to learn the pioneer was a heroic, honorable person. 259 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 2: They were encouraged to go settle the West, even given 260 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 2: land by Abraham Lincoln helped pass that legislation to settle 261 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 2: the West, civilize it, and create opportunity and prosperity in 262 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 2: parts of this nation. And instead of teaching it that 263 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 2: way the way I learned it when I was growing up, 264 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 2: what they're teaching and ethnic studies is the pioneers were 265 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 2: white supremacists who capitalized on systemic racism at the time, 266 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 2: and they colonized in a genocidal way the West, stealing 267 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 2: the land of the indigenous people, oppressing them and even 268 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 2: annihilating annihilating them. And so if that sounds familiar, it's 269 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 2: now being said about Israel. So obviously this is all 270 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 2: not true. And in the case of Israel, Israel is 271 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 2: actually governed today and its population predominantly are people who 272 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 2: have been there since the beginning of the Bible. So 273 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 2: how do you talk about it? And I'm glad you 274 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 2: asked that question. I actually felt compelled to write a 275 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 2: column about it and then sent a newsletter out to 276 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 2: my subscribers a couple of weeks ago, or last week actually, 277 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 2: And so what I did in trying to make this 278 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 2: case is I show I'm trying to make a fairness 279 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: appeal a compassion appeal. I titled the column how can 280 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 2: we ensure all Babies Matter? And I ended the column 281 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 2: by asking the question, if Palestinians had moral leaders who 282 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 2: believed their lives mattered, wouldn't that make peace more likely 283 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 2: ensuring all babies matter? I think that's more or less 284 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 2: the way I put it, And so I ask it 285 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 2: as a question. So when I ask it as a 286 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 2: question instead of making it a declarative statement, then people 287 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 2: are brought in to answer the question themselves. That's why 288 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 2: questions can be more persuasive and help bring people to 289 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 2: common ground. And so in the middle of the column, though, 290 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 2: I do acknowledge that the Palestinians, especially the Gosins, are oppressed, 291 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 2: terribly oppressed. And then it's a tragedy that these people 292 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 2: who live just one inch on the other side of 293 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 2: the border of Israel don't enjoy the same opportunity and 294 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 2: prosperity and rite as Arab Israelis have who live inside 295 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 2: of the border of Israel, and they are twenty one 296 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 2: percent of the population. And you'd be surprised how many 297 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 2: people don't know that. Because Israel is called an apartheid nation, right, 298 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 2: but twenty one percent of the population are Arab Israelis. 299 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 2: They are in the military, they are in the Kanesset, 300 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 2: their parliament, they are on the Supreme Court, and they're 301 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 2: vibrant members of Israeli society, which is very diverse, unlike Gaza. 302 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 2: And so when you show that you, as I tried 303 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 2: to do with that column, that Palestinian lives would be 304 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:41,360 Speaker 2: considerably enhanced if Hamas weren't governing them, then you come 305 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 2: across as a fair analyst or a fair commenter on 306 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 2: the situation, and that you're fighting for these people. It's 307 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 2: just not fair they have to live in these conditions. 308 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: So I think it's interesting because you talk about it 309 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: not being about winning that though you don't have win 310 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: every debate, your talking points don't have to be right. 311 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: You are supposed to be winning people over, and I 312 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: have to say, I think that on our side, we 313 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: oftentimes forget this, and we've created whole organizations about winning 314 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: debates rather than winning people over. And it's just interesting 315 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: to me because I've had some supporters who have come 316 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: to me just in the past few weeks and gone, Man, 317 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 1: I think we realized that we were putting money into 318 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: projects that were about winning debates, but not bringing people 319 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 1: over to our side. Actually, that sometimes is pushing people 320 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: away from our side. So how do we change that mindset? 321 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: Because I think with social media it became kind of 322 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: the way that the right was seen. And I don't 323 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: know if that makes sense to you, but the only 324 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: way that our side could be seen because we believed 325 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: we were silenced, was to be loud, take charge and 326 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,480 Speaker 1: say we one, we won this talking point. And that 327 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: has ultimately, in my opinion and in many of my 328 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 1: supporters opinions, it has harmed us and driven people to 329 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: the other side. 330 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 2: So I always emphasize, and this is a little different 331 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 2: when you're working with a candidate, but hostiles, by definition 332 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 2: are people that cannot be converted to our side. And 333 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 2: yet we spend so much time focused on hostles. Candidates 334 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 2: have to and when you're in a debate and you're 335 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 2: going up against your opponent who's by definition of hostile, 336 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,719 Speaker 2: you have to engage them. But I always say to people, 337 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 2: don't engage a hostile unless you're in the presence of persuadables. 338 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 2: And if you approach them and engage to InStyle with 339 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 2: these six powers of persuasion, the persuadables will be drawn 340 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 2: to you and your thoughtfulness and repelled by the hostile 341 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 2: wity oft the hostel. And I could give you many 342 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 2: examples of how I've I've done this, uh, but it's uh, 343 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 2: you know, just on the issue of israelis just to 344 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 2: to be advocating aren't aren't. Wouldn't Palestinians be better if 345 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 2: Hamas weren't governing them? Is a thoughtful thing to say 346 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 2: about this? 347 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 3: You know. It's also the case that. 348 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 2: When we talk about, you know, equity policies, uh that 349 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 2: you know, I support equity policies that live diversely talented 350 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 2: children from where they are to their fullest potential. That's 351 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 2: a who's going to disagree with that? Or what I 352 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 2: said before is that this idea that the the trans 353 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 2: stuff that we are better off when we're fighting for 354 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 2: kids to grow up without the ideas that might cause 355 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 2: them anxiety. We have a team mental health crisis now. 356 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 2: So wouldn't it be better to not plant the seed 357 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 2: in a child's mind that maybe they're born in the 358 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 2: wrong body. So back to this point anyway, back to 359 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 2: this point of don't worry about the hostile unless you're 360 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 2: in the presence of persuadables, and if you're in a 361 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 2: debate as a candidate, obviously you have the opportunity to 362 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 2: win persuadables over You're never going to convert the hostile 363 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 2: or the hostile supporters. It's the persuadables are after and 364 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 2: the way you do that is coming across as likable 365 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 2: and as thoughtful. I think the twenty sixteen election actually 366 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 2: is proof that people will vote for you if they 367 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 2: don't like you, but they won't vote for you if 368 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,120 Speaker 2: they think you don't like them. 369 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 3: And sometimes it's interesting. 370 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: That's so a good point. 371 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 2: So Hillary, I would say Trump actually fought for the 372 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 2: forgotten men and women of this nation, went to the 373 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 2: northern Midwest and actually campaigned where Hillary was and meanwhile 374 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 2: she called those people deplorables. And so you know, the 375 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 2: goal is always to try to come across as thoughtful, 376 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 2: and so that's why staying on common ground and talking 377 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 2: in a way that shows that you care about people 378 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 2: and is fair and care oriented is one way to 379 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 2: do that. So, like on another issue, we often fight 380 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 2: against unsustainable entitlements. So instead of and it's not a 381 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 2: surprise that we get accused of wanting to throw Granny 382 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 2: off a cliff. When we say that we want to 383 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 2: pull and like Lee actually said this, or other Republicans 384 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 2: who've said that we want to pull Social Security up 385 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 2: by its roots, right, better way to say that is 386 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 2: to say that it's unfair that young people paying into 387 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 2: the system now won't get their benefits when they retire. 388 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,959 Speaker 2: That's hearable to people from across the spectrum, and it 389 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 2: makes them connect to the notion that, well, we better 390 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 2: fix this because that's not fair to the next generation. 391 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 392 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I think oftentimes we don't think 393 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 1: deeply about the way we say things, and I think 394 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: this on both sides. But just the other day, we 395 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: were speaking to someone who was like, you know, when 396 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: I go out there and campaign, I'm going to talk 397 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: about the fact that we need to bring the family 398 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: back and then we would have fewer drug overdoses. And 399 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: it's just funny to me because I think that sometimes 400 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: you can step out of it and put your candidate 401 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: hat on, and I'm like, I get where you're trying 402 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: to go with this. But if you've lost a family member, 403 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: which so many of us have to a drug overdose. 404 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: You just blamed the family, you know. And it's really 405 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: hard because everybody says, I don't want to be a politician, 406 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: You're not a politician. I mean, well, once you've entered 407 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 1: the arena, you are a politician. But it's also about 408 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 1: really being thoughtful once you are in that political arena, 409 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: think about your answers, think about all sides. And it's 410 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: hard because when you're a candidate, you have people pushing 411 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: you in so many different directions. So how do you 412 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: keep that candidate focused on what, like you said, what 413 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: person could you hurt with this message? And how can 414 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: you adjust it so somebody doesn't walk away going gosh, 415 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: exactly the Hillary Clinton effect. That person doesn't like me, 416 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: they think I'm wrong, right, Yeah. 417 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 2: I think it's one of the reasons when I do 418 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 2: debate prep with candidates and they say, oh, if I 419 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 2: have a brain freeze, what should I think of? And 420 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 2: I say, just say I worry, because that's what will 421 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 2: show that you care and it will help you pivot 422 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 2: to the people you worry about and should be a 423 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 2: fair and care type of message. So, you know, like 424 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 2: on renewable energy, to say I worry about people who today, 425 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 2: given the private inflation, the increase in energy prices causes 426 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 2: the prices of everything in the economy to go up, 427 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 2: and I worry that there are people today who are 428 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 2: having to choose between heating and eating, and that's not fair. 429 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: And also people need to remember there's a difference between 430 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: being careful and giving up your message, because you have 431 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 1: to be careful and sometimes you can actually use their 432 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: words to get people to understand what you're saying. But 433 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: I think that I know that I would say right 434 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: of center folks have been like, if you use the 435 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: word equity, that's a trigger and you're a bad person 436 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: and you're a rhino and you're But if you start 437 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: talking about what does equity really mean? And you know what, 438 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: let me take that back for a minute. Let's talk 439 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: about equality. Let's talk about what does what do you 440 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: want equity to be? You want equity to be an 441 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: opportunity for everyone, Well, we want an opportunity for everyone too. 442 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: But sometimes it's hard because if you try to use 443 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 1: those words, your own side goes no, no, I'm done 444 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: with you. 445 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 2: So I get that I may blow your mind or 446 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 2: your audience mind here, but one of the things that 447 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 2: I teach in the area of education in this diversity, 448 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 2: equity and inclusion issue is why have those words resonated? 449 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 2: Why did a movement get created around them? It's because 450 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 2: they all have the patina of fairness, and so they 451 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 2: have The Left has managed to distort those words, and 452 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 2: people who hear them just assume they mean fairness. So 453 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 2: when we say we're fighting against DEI or we're against DEI, 454 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 2: then we get accused of being against fairness or against 455 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 2: the common rule. And when I teach my education workshop, 456 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 2: I have videos of people who are speaking up at 457 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 2: school board meetings who are opposed to DEI, and then 458 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 2: other people who stand up who say DEI is just 459 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:03,479 Speaker 2: the golden rule. So that's why when I encourage people 460 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 2: to take back those words. So diversity means teaching multiple perspectives, 461 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 2: and equity means lifting differently talented people up to their 462 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 2: fullest potential, and inclusivity means, in the case of education, 463 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 2: involving parents and or in the right now on campus, 464 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 2: including Jewish students and protecting them as you would anyone else. 465 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 2: That you want to have a fair application of free 466 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 2: speech rules on campus. And so it's totally inclusive. So 467 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 2: I've just taken back those words. And just one little 468 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 2: success that I want to share is I work with 469 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 2: I've worked with members of a school board. They had 470 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 2: a four to three conservative majority going back two years 471 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 2: ago when they won it, and over the last two 472 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 2: years they managed to implement met lots of policies. The 473 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 2: last one was we hear a lot about this parental 474 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 2: bill of rights, these things that are being passed by 475 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 2: school boards or even at the state level, but that 476 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 2: has a very sort of right right of center patriotic connotation, 477 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 2: and it can be a red flag to people who 478 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 2: see themselves on the left. But the way to pull 479 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 2: them in is to call it a family inclusion and 480 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 2: parental partnership agreement. And in the case of this school 481 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 2: board that just passed this last June, even the progressive 482 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 2: members of the school board had to vote for it 483 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 2: because it included inclusive in it. And then just now 484 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 2: at the last election, the school board managed that they're 485 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 2: now six to one. 486 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 3: They've been passing their conservative yap wow. 487 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: That So I think that's where we find people a 488 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: little bit afraid and they're like, I don't want to 489 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: push the envelope I don't want to use is the word, 490 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: but here you ended up winning over more people and 491 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:09,239 Speaker 1: probably changing the politics for quite a long time. That is, 492 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: it's one thing in the political world before I let 493 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: you go. How does that work in the executive world. 494 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 2: You know, we have a lot of I would call 495 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 2: it a crisis of self censorship. And so one of 496 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 2: the things I teach, whether you're in the executive world, 497 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 2: you know, in the nonprofit world, or you're just at 498 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 2: a Thanksgiving dinner table. Before Thanksgiving, I also did a 499 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 2: few workshops helping people broach subjects at Thanksgiving in a 500 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 2: compassionate way. And one of the things I like to 501 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,760 Speaker 2: tell people is, we think we need to have courage 502 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 2: to speak up and voice our opinion, But if you 503 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 2: do it the right way and you come across as 504 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 2: thoughtful and fair and compassionate, you actually don't need to. 505 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 3: Have as much courage. 506 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 2: And so when you do it that way, there are 507 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 2: other people who are silencing themselves because they're scared. 508 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 3: Who hear you do. 509 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 2: It so well, and maybe they'll nod their head affirmatively 510 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 2: and perhaps the next time you having role model for 511 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 2: them how to express your ideas in a compassionate and 512 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 2: fair way, pulling people over to our borrallly superior formula 513 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 2: to humanity. Maybe the next time they'll take a shot, 514 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 2: they'll open their mouth. And when more of the silent 515 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 2: majority open their mouth, then that's when we start to 516 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 2: turn the tide with regard to executives. It's really important 517 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 2: to just try to come across as likable and friendly. 518 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 2: And that's like in the first power of persuasion, which 519 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 2: is how you come across in person, you know, smiling 520 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 2: and giving positive approbation to people, not being too critical, 521 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 2: showing that, as even Covey put it, find what's right 522 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 2: with what someone else says and not just what's wrong, 523 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 2: and then that's also common ground. 524 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 3: That's a way. 525 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 2: And then once you make that connection, then you can 526 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 2: layer in the facts, and then you can layer in 527 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 2: your argument. But it's only after you've won their trust. 528 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 2: One of one of the things I learned learned at 529 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 2: writing my columns, just maybe to close on this, Margaret 530 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 2: Thatsher said, first you win the argument, and then you 531 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 2: win the vote. And what I have learned in writing 532 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 2: a column and teaching persuasion is actually the first thing 533 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 2: you have to do is win their trust, and then 534 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 2: you're winning arguments and we have them can win support. 535 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: And then once you have their trust and you are 536 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: able to show that you've earned it, they stay with you. 537 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: And I think that's something that we need to learn 538 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: and that doesn't, like you said, that doesn't happen through 539 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: winning debates and talking points. You have to you have 540 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: to really be in there learning showing that you care. 541 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: I think that's the most important thing. A lot of 542 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: people think that these folks that are you know, the facts, 543 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: don't care about your failing story. They're like, well you 544 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: don't care either. You got to make sure that you 545 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: people realize you do care. 546 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 3: We do care. That is so key. How do people 547 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 3: find us? 548 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll say that in a second, but just remember, 549 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 2: persuasion is actually saying things that people are already inclined 550 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 2: to believe. It's already in their head. You just said 551 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,959 Speaker 2: it in a way that resonated for them. So in 552 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 2: my workshops, I always like to show videos of Bill Maher, 553 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 2: who's kind of on fire these days, making monologues that 554 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 2: resonate with people from across the spectrum. And when he 555 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 2: says something and people clap, he's found common ground. So 556 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 2: so how do people find me? My website is engaged 557 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 2: number two when dot org. I could be reached at 558 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 2: Melanie at Engage number two win dot org. And I 559 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 2: also have another website called the win Coach, where I 560 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 2: have a calendar. I do often sort of random zooms. 561 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 2: People can go to my calendar. I haven't updated it yet. 562 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 2: I'll be doing that in the new year, but pretty 563 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 2: much every Monday, I'll conduct a zoom that people can 564 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 2: sign up for for a two hour introduction to my 565 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 2: six parts of persuasion. 566 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 3: Awesome. 567 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: I love that, and I think it's so important that 568 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: people know that this exists because right now we're going 569 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: into this election season. People are running at all different 570 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: levels and there are a lot of questions out there. 571 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: May I've had people come to me and be like, 572 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: how do we navigate this issue? You're the person, you know, 573 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: Melanie Ststerm. Thank you so much. Thanks for being here. 574 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, yeah, thanks for having. 575 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: Me absolutely, and thank you all for joining us on 576 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others. Check 577 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: out Tutor dixonpodcast dot com. You can subscribe right there, 578 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: or head over to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or 579 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, and join us next time 580 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Have a blessed day,