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Speaker 1: There are No Girls on the Internet. As a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this

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Speaker 1: is there are No Girls on the Internet. Have you

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Speaker 1: been noticing that treadwife content is everywhere on social media lately?

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Speaker 1: That is content that glamorizes and romanticizes women doing things

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Speaker 1: like not working outside of the home or submitting to

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Speaker 1: a man. I joined my friend Samantha and Annie over

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Speaker 1: at the podcast Stuff. Mom never told you to dig

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Speaker 1: into what exactly is going on here? Have you seen

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Speaker 1: this kind of content all over your feeds like I have?

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Speaker 2: Let me know.

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Speaker 3: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

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Speaker 4: I'm welcome to Stuff. I've never told you a prediction

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Speaker 4: of iHeart Radio and we are thrilled to once again

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Speaker 4: be joined for the first time in twenty twenty four

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Speaker 4: by the well traveled, the well rich bridge It Todd.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I mean not well traveled lately, but maybe over the

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Speaker 1: course of my lifetime moderately travels.

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Speaker 2: Although I can't really compete with you, Annie, you really

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Speaker 2: get around.

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Speaker 3: Here. Your Instagram's like took you all over the world.

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Speaker 3: You are traveling, traveling for the podcast world, so I

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Speaker 3: think you're that's understated.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I guess, I guess the entire year of twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three. Maybe recently it feels like like the last

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks, I've been traveling from my fridge to

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Speaker 1: my bed to my couch for sure.

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Speaker 4: But that's really the extent of it. That's about where

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Speaker 4: we've been for a while. Yes, so what a journey

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Speaker 4: it's done.

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Speaker 3: Like you say, the last couple of weeks twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 3: that's been our journey backyard, couch bed.

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Speaker 2: Where else do you need to go?

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Speaker 4: Well, we haven't gotten to see you in this virtual way.

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Speaker 4: We are working on some IRL hangout soon. Heince the

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Speaker 4: discussion we had about traveling previous tour recording just now.

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Speaker 4: But how was your Weirdo Christmas? Your New Year's, Bridget Grido.

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Speaker 1: Christmas was fantastic, as always, Lots of bad movies were watched.

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Speaker 1: We actually did a special thing to watch horror Christmas movies.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know there were so many, but like ten

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Speaker 1: out of ten yes, would recommend.

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Speaker 2: New Year's was also fun. I feel like i'm a

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Speaker 2: little I don't know.

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Speaker 1: January is such a weird time of year because you

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Speaker 1: kind of start and You're like, this is going to

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Speaker 1: be new year, new me, and then by the second

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Speaker 1: week of January you're like, oh, well, turns out it's

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Speaker 1: still same old me, and maybe that's okay. Just feels

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Speaker 1: like a little bit of a slow start. It's been

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Speaker 1: really cold in DC, snowing. I'm doing dry January, so

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Speaker 1: I'm sober. I broke from Christmas. I'm tired. Like January

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Speaker 1: is just a slog.

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Speaker 3: January is the hangover month. I mean essentially, whether it's

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Speaker 3: from like spending too much money, being around too many people,

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Speaker 3: all of those things just kind of recuperating and it

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Speaker 3: does as any and I talked about early. I was like,

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Speaker 3: I feel like January and February ends up being the

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Speaker 3: longest months of the year. Like we did an episode

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Speaker 3: and I was like, it's still January. I really thought

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Speaker 3: we had topped into e least February and we're still

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Speaker 3: nowhere near. And I'm like, why does it feel like

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Speaker 3: we're in the middle of the year but we just started.

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Speaker 2: It is dragging. Maybe it's a sobariety.

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Speaker 3: I don't know about that life, so yes.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, Well, we have done several episodes about how

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Speaker 4: neither of us are big fans of New Year. So

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Speaker 4: we're right there with you, cause I feel like it's

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Speaker 4: so anti colimactic. You're like yes, and then you're like, ah,

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Speaker 4: this is kind of depressing. You like look back on

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Speaker 4: your past year and be like I gotta change all this.

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Speaker 4: And then you're like, well, like can't really right totally.

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Speaker 3: That takes money and time, yes, And then.

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Speaker 1: Once the kind of so you have the holidays and

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Speaker 1: you're kind of like, oh boy, I could really go

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Speaker 1: for this being over the holidays end, and then you're like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: now I'm feeling back to the grind, like holidays are over.

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Speaker 1: There's just a thing that happens after the holiday wind

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Speaker 1: down kind of wears off that just is So it's

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Speaker 1: just such a slog. It's a slog of a month,

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Speaker 1: I think for everybody. So for folks who are listening

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Speaker 1: and maybe feel like they're a little off, feeling a

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Speaker 1: little weird z's, I think we're all in the same boat.

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Speaker 3: It's true. It's also dark and again, as you said, cold,

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Speaker 3: and who likes the cold. It's not me here in

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Speaker 3: the South.

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Speaker 4: I prefer gold to hot. But it is dreary, it's

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Speaker 4: like a and there's not like anything really coming to

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Speaker 4: look forward to. I don't look forward to like balent

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Speaker 4: Time's Day, Like there's no it's just like, okay, I'll

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Speaker 4: wait a couple months for something sunshine.

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Speaker 2: Just hold on to Saint Patrick's Day every day.

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Speaker 1: When is that?

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Speaker 4: I don't know, because I'm a huge celebrator of Arbor Day.

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Speaker 4: Uh well, I have to say, you really came in

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Speaker 4: swinging with this topic, and I have. I have been

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Speaker 4: thinking about this because I'm actually not on social media

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Speaker 4: a lot, but I have seen I feel like I'm

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Speaker 4: one of the only people I know and this I'm

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Speaker 4: sure it's not true, but I in my circle that

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Speaker 4: watches a lot of YouTube and YouTube there's something going

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Speaker 4: on with YouTube ads that I've been trying to make

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Speaker 4: into an episode, but I can't quite nail down what

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Speaker 4: it is. But they've become so gendered in a way

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Speaker 4: that like isn't new but feels like, wow, we've gone

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Speaker 4: this far back. But it'll be something like especially around

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Speaker 4: the holidays, like, well, my wife loves me, so she

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Speaker 4: got me this thing that she can use to make

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Speaker 4: my life better, or like it'll be from the white's

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Speaker 4: perspective and it'll be oh, I've got this because my

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Speaker 4: husband's been so tired and I can make his life easier.

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Speaker 4: So it's like gifts that are all about him, but

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Speaker 4: it's painted as if she wants it too and she

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Speaker 4: likes it too, and I'm just confused by the whole thing.

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Speaker 2: I don't understand. I feel you.

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Speaker 1: I feel like lately the Internet and social media has

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Speaker 1: become this weird marriage of gender roles and gendered expectations

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Speaker 1: and commerce and capitalism all kind of like blended into

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Speaker 1: one where the only kind of online experience you could

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Speaker 1: ever really hope to have around that is like buy

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Speaker 1: this thing for your husband to like be a good wife.

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Speaker 2: It's very weird.

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Speaker 4: It's bizarre, like and I've I've had moments where I'm like,

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Speaker 4: is this generated by AI? There's like the voices are strange,

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Speaker 4: it's very strange.

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Speaker 2: It might be AI.

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Speaker 4: It could be like there's one in particular. I'm like,

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Speaker 4: I need to look into that. I've I want to

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Speaker 4: investigate what going on here, But yeah, I've just sort

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Speaker 4: of seen it. And so when I saw this topic,

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Speaker 4: I was like, oh, maybe bridget can illuminate something that

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Speaker 4: I'm seeing in my specific space. But from what you're

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Speaker 4: seeing on social media? So what are we talking about today?

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Speaker 1: So, if you've spent any time at all on social media,

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Speaker 1: you have probably seen what is called trad wives contact, right,

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Speaker 1: have you? I guess any you're not really on social media,

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Speaker 1: but it does sound like you're getting a little of

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Speaker 1: this on YouTube, Sam, have you encountered any of this

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Speaker 1: in your time on TikTok so?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So we've had many conversations on the show about

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Speaker 3: the crunchy oh Yes wives movement that quickly kind of

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Speaker 3: devolves into being a trad wife, as well as talking

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Speaker 3: about religious trauma and the how that plays into the

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Speaker 3: tradwive culture, as well as a red Pill episode that

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Speaker 3: we talked about because that actually jumps into tradwives as well.

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Speaker 3: Of course, white supremacists and white feminist culture also goes

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Speaker 3: into that. There's so much to this, So definitely had

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Speaker 3: a little bit of research beforehand, and I definitely get it,

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Speaker 3: of course because of my for you page fyp any,

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Speaker 3: just in case you needed to know, it does feed

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Speaker 3: me the satire of trad wives and or stitching the

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Speaker 3: problematic things with tradwives. I don't follow any and I

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Speaker 3: would not recognize any by name necessarily, and I know

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Speaker 3: you're going to talk a little bit, but like Joe

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Speaker 3: Piazza actually was on the show and we talked very

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Speaker 3: briefly with her about some of the things that she

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Speaker 3: has seen and she is addressed also her because she

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Speaker 3: was coming around like Halloween after Halloween, and her precious,

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Speaker 3: amazing costume of playing tradwife as well. But yeah, there's

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Speaker 3: definitely a lot of content. I get a lot, And

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Speaker 3: we've talked about the family content stuff, which again aligns

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Speaker 3: with that when a lot of moms of TikTok use

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Speaker 3: their family content as moneymakers and to get to get viral.

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Speaker 3: And then of course the Ruby Frank case, which is,

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Speaker 3: oh my gosh, Annie, just so you know, just recently

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Speaker 3: a woman was convicted for child abuse and so much

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Speaker 3: more after it was released that she was abusing her

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Speaker 3: kids and she was using that content with somewhat a

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Speaker 3: business partner to make money off on TikTok and she

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Speaker 3: was severely abusing her kids.

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Speaker 1: So horrible, and she's just I think she might have,

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Speaker 1: like I know, she was in prison or in jail

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Speaker 1: for a while and then she was released and I

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Speaker 1: think flipped on her business partner and was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: she was the mastermind.

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Speaker 3: Yes, they flipped on each other obviously, but it was intense,

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Speaker 3: and the whole content is about how she is very

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Speaker 3: cruel to her children and how she punishes them by

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Speaker 3: not letting them have dinner. Was the beginning of everything.

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Speaker 3: But this type of content, which you have talked about before,

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Speaker 3: using children as moneymakers for content creation, but on that

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Speaker 3: same line with tradwives that have been popping up so

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Speaker 3: much totally.

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Speaker 1: So it is interesting that I think that you know,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about this mix of gender and commerce that

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Speaker 1: is so ubiquitous on social media, and I think you've

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Speaker 1: really nailed something that the depiction of motherhood and romantic

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Speaker 1: partnership that we're shown as women on social media is

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Speaker 1: highly commercial, Like somebody is probably making money from that

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Speaker 1: depiction in some capacity.

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Speaker 2: So for folks who.

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Speaker 1: Don't know, trad wives is short for traditional wives, and

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Speaker 1: it's these content creators who make content about ostensibly about

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Speaker 1: the bliss that they find in doing traditional domestic labor,

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Speaker 1: you know, cooking, cleaning, sewing, running a household. So I

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Speaker 1: should say right off the bat that like, not all

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Speaker 1: trad wife content is created equal, Some tradwife content creators

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Speaker 1: just seem to be sort of showcasing their lives.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk about some of those.

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Speaker 1: Others seemed to be more directly and explicitly romanticizing and

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Speaker 1: advocating for like this bygone time when women were happier

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Speaker 1: primarily in the home. So I did an interview with

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Speaker 1: Joe Piazza, who I'm so glad that she stopped over

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Speaker 1: on y'all's pod too, because she is incredible and hilarious.

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Speaker 1: She has a podcast called Under the Influence, all about

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Speaker 1: influencing and women. So Joe actually makes it very clear

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Speaker 1: that this bygone era where women were so happy to

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Speaker 1: be staying in the home actually kind of does not exist, right,

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Speaker 1: It's like a throwback and a romanticization of a time

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Speaker 1: period that like did not actually really exist for women.

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Speaker 2: Because truly, can you really.

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Speaker 1: Romanticize the choices made by white women at a time

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Speaker 1: when they like could not even own bank accounts, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: it's a little hard to be like, oh, well, our

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Speaker 1: grandmothers were just choosing to be in the household because

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Speaker 1: that was what was better, And it's like, well, she

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Speaker 1: couldn't have our own money legally, so maybe choice isn't

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Speaker 1: the right word. So I say white women because I'm

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Speaker 1: a Black woman and we are explicitly not talking about

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Speaker 1: Black women like myself. Black women historically pretty much have

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Speaker 1: always done wage earning work outside of the home. Even

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Speaker 1: if we wanted to stay in our homes and not

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Speaker 1: do that, that really wasn't an option for us.

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Speaker 2: Rose M.

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Speaker 1: Krider and Diana B. Elliott note in their report called

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Speaker 1: Historical Changes in Stay at Home Mothers nineteen sixty nine

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Speaker 1: to two thousand and nine that even black mothers with

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Speaker 1: young children were in the workforce following World War Two,

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Speaker 1: when many of their white counterparts had withdrawn from a

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Speaker 1: labor force, and in places like South Carolina, they even

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Speaker 1: had laws on the books that were requiring black women

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Speaker 1: to have consistent employment outside of the home. So I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to say that because I feel like when

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Speaker 1: we talk about conversations about who works and who didn't

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Speaker 1: work and what it's a throwback to you. I just

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Speaker 1: think it's important to note that we are talking about

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Speaker 1: like one specific subset of women, not all women. So

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Speaker 1: I should say I'm not an expert on trad wise.

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Speaker 2: I did do a lot of reading for this episode.

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Speaker 1: However, I do consider myself a bit of an expert

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Speaker 1: on the Internet and social media, and I think there

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Speaker 1: are a few key parts of the conversation around trad

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Speaker 1: wives and that kind of online content that get a

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Speaker 1: little overlooked that I just want to make sure that

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Speaker 1: we are all keeping in mind when we're consuming this

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Speaker 1: content and talking and thinking about this content.

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Speaker 4: Okay, for listeners maybe like me who have seen some

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Speaker 4: weird YouTube ads but maybe don't know what is happening

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Speaker 4: on social media specifically, what kind of content are we

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Speaker 4: talking about here?

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Speaker 1: So, as I said, it is content that is like

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Speaker 1: women baking or sewing. You know, sometimes it's just like

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Speaker 1: a woman demonstrating what her life is like. So it's

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Speaker 1: like her with her kids making food, da da da.

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Speaker 1: But some of that content is a little bit more sinister.

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Speaker 1: In this kind of treadwive content, women are exublicitly comparing

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Speaker 1: their lives and their choices to the lives and choices

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Speaker 1: of other women. I transcribed a TikTok that I think

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Speaker 1: demonstrates what I am talking about. So this is from

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Speaker 1: influencer Emily Allison, who describes herself on Instagram as counterculture

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Speaker 1: thinking child raising. I just want my kids to grow

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Speaker 1: up in a free country. So I'm going to read

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Speaker 1: what she says in her TikTok and just kind of

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Speaker 1: imagine that, like they're sort of cute, smarmy guitar music

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Speaker 1: playing under this, because that's what the TikTok is like,

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Speaker 1: and that my narration is synced up to videos of

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Speaker 1: me wearing prairie dresses and like cooking and playing with

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Speaker 1: my kids.

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Speaker 2: Okay, here we go.

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Speaker 1: Our culture tells women that it's honorable to sacrifice everything

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Speaker 1: for your job, but it's unfair to sacrific everything for

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Speaker 1: your family. That it's liberating to be sexually used by

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Speaker 1: men who are not committed to you, but it's oppressive

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Speaker 1: to love and respect a man who is. That it's

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Speaker 1: somehow empowering to rely on the system to educate your kids,

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Speaker 1: feed your family, and keep you alive, rather than have

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Speaker 1: the skills to do it yourself.

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Speaker 2: I say that culture is full of lies.

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Speaker 1: So that's just me like reading a word for word

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Speaker 1: transcript of what this person has to say. First of all,

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Speaker 1: you might think from that transcript that this person does

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Speaker 1: not do wage earning work because she is too busy

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Speaker 1: like focusing on her family. However, according to her Instagram bio.

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Speaker 1: It says that she is a writer for the far

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Speaker 1: right website Epoch Times, So she actually does have a job,

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Speaker 1: but she just wants to let us know that she

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Speaker 1: has a job in a way that is like different

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Speaker 1: and better than everybody else who has a job. Like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what y'all are doing, but like when

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Speaker 1: I have a job, it's better. When you have a job,

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Speaker 1: you are making a mistake and turning your back on

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Speaker 1: your family.

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Speaker 2: So you know I'm doing it right, y'all are doing

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Speaker 2: it wrong.

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Speaker 1: So I think this content is a good example of

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Speaker 1: what I'm talking about, right, Like, if Emily is so

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Speaker 1: content with her with her life, you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: think that somebody who is super content would feel the

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Speaker 1: need to really compare their choices and their life to

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Speaker 1: the choices in life of somebody that they don't even

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Speaker 1: necessarily know, right, Like, there is something about the content

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Speaker 1: that I think is meant to enrage, meant to make

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Speaker 1: people feel a.

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Speaker 2: Certain kind of way. Do you do you all see this?

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Speaker 2: Or am I way off basier?

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Speaker 3: Well, the minute you said that she was for a

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Speaker 3: writer for the far right news article, I think that

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Speaker 3: again kind of coming back to what we were talking about

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Speaker 3: with red pill slash white supremacy. This level of indoctrination

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Speaker 3: is the Maga world, and uh, I doubt we have

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Speaker 3: any Magia listeners. But if you're offended, you essentially like

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Speaker 3: if it sounds offensive, but it's actually true because there's

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Speaker 3: this whole underlying level of creating more white babies. And

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Speaker 3: I'm assuming this one woman is a white woman and

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Speaker 3: in this whole culture of go against the Zeit guys,

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Speaker 3: which now the Zeit guys is too liberal, which is

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Speaker 3: that you know, in their in their mind of course,

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Speaker 3: in this conversation, which is again what we were really

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Speaker 3: like every time I would go down this rabbit hole

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Speaker 3: of anything tradwives, anything, crunchy moms situation, it get is

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Speaker 3: very succinct to this ideal of moms protecting white children

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Speaker 3: or the white community in itself. In this level of

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Speaker 3: that has to be also meaning that we're rebellious against

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Speaker 3: the norm and those are the devils who you know,

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Speaker 3: this level of conversation, it's like, yeah, this makes perfect sense.

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Speaker 3: And that guitar playing is you're supposed to think this

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Speaker 3: is a Midwestern family out in the cornfields in their dresses,

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Speaker 3: having the perfect little like dinner at the tables, but

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Speaker 3: that they had obviously garden themselves because they don't trust

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Speaker 3: the government or the fertilizer, and you know, wore these

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Speaker 3: clothes that they have made themselves, as well as the

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Speaker 3: fire that you know, they don't do doctors, none of that.

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Speaker 3: Like this level of ideal of the perfect life that

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Speaker 3: kind of also insinuates by the perfect light.

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Speaker 2: Means you have to be white a thousand percent.

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Speaker 1: And something that you picked up on that I really

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Speaker 1: want to pull out is how so much of this

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Speaker 1: content also sort of has this almost like faux persecution

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Speaker 1: angle to it, like they don't want me to be

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Speaker 1: submissive to my husband, who like, they don't want me

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Speaker 1: making homemade meals. It's like, who are you talking about

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Speaker 1: that it's preventing you from doing this.

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Speaker 2: This is something that I noticed a lot.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like these people want to be persecuted or

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Speaker 1: like victimized in some way, and they really they're so

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Speaker 1: committed to wanting to feel like they're going against the

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Speaker 1: grain and challenging that they have made that into an

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Speaker 1: identity and they've kind of like built it up that

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Speaker 1: everything they do is like being challenged. Everything they do

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Speaker 1: like they don't want me to grow my own food.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, who, like, who is preventing you from

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Speaker 1: doing this if that's what you want to do, right,

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Speaker 1: I've seen so many people say like make it seem

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Speaker 1: as though there's some sort of feminist conspiracy to keep

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Speaker 1: women from staying.

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Speaker 2: At home and not doing wage durning work.

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Speaker 1: And I I mean I would if I could afford

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Speaker 1: to comfortably do that.

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Speaker 2: I think I would love to do it, right. I

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Speaker 2: think a lot of people would love to do that.

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Speaker 1: But like what people are saying is like, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: should have the choice to do what do whatever you

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Speaker 1: want to do. And what they're hearing is like, they're

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Speaker 1: not letting me stay at home. Where where are these

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Speaker 1: people who are preventing women from like staying at home

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Speaker 1: with their families if that's what they want to do.

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Speaker 3: That's called capitalism, babe in it This sucks for everybody.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're all we're all dealing with the same suffering.

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Speaker 3: But you know, I think that's that conversation again, this

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Speaker 3: whole like they won't let me do this thing or

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Speaker 3: they won't let me do that thing. And it's kind

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Speaker 3: of that conversation you were talking about earlier, where black

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Speaker 3: women were pretty much excluded from the white feminist movement

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Speaker 3: because they did not listen to the fact that black

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Speaker 3: women have been working, women of color have been working

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Speaker 3: the entirety of their existence from jump because they had

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Speaker 3: no other choice. That the fact that they want to

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Speaker 3: go to work and women should be they're not listening

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Speaker 3: to the other side of what feminism should look like.

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Speaker 3: And that conversation is that it's the choice. It's the

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Speaker 3: choice to do what you whether it is to be

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Speaker 3: a stay at home mom and to have whatever balanced

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Speaker 3: life that you want. If you agreed upon it and

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Speaker 3: everything is fair for you too and there's respect, then wonderful.

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Speaker 3: That's the thing. That's the choice to have. That choice

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Speaker 3: is the feminist ideal. But yeah, the more I see,

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Speaker 3: like again with the tradwives, they're going to a nineteen

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Speaker 3: seventies tactic of the fear mongering of feminism. Right if

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Speaker 3: they want to take away men, they hate, oh men,

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Speaker 3: they want to kill men.

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Speaker 4: A B.

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Speaker 3: The fact that they can't wear You can't wear bras

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Speaker 3: because if you do, you're not a feminist and you

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Speaker 3: can't wear like who ever said these things? Who said this?

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Speaker 3: What is happening, this fear mangery that has come back,

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Speaker 3: and that they have not only uh taken this on,

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Speaker 3: they're pushing it so hard that those who always hated

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Speaker 3: the ideal of something absolutely are gripping to this like, yes,

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Speaker 3: they are trying to take away these things from me

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Speaker 3: or make me do these things, and I hate the feminists.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it is such a straw man. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: And so this actually is one of the three major

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Speaker 1: points that I want folks to think about and really

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Speaker 1: know in terms of coming to this content with a

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Speaker 1: critical eye and with a little bit of media literacy,

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Speaker 1: is that this kind of content is often specifically engineered

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Speaker 1: to make us have a big reaction. Right, So, in

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Speaker 1: the example that we were just talking about, you know

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Speaker 1: that influencer does not have a huge following.

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Speaker 2: She has like twenty k on Instagram and I think

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Speaker 2: or I forty k on.

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Speaker 1: TikTok, which is pretty small in the ecosystem of trad

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Speaker 1: wife influencers. And so you know, because some of these

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Speaker 1: people have like millions and millions of followers, So I

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Speaker 1: suspect the reason that she has to frame her video

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Speaker 1: in such a smug way where it's like, my choices

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Speaker 1: are good. Other women's choices not good is because she

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Speaker 1: is trafficking on our big reaction to get engagement. If

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Speaker 1: she just said I like to homeschool my kids, I

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Speaker 1: like to play with my kids, I like to cook

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Speaker 1: for my husband, I have a relationship where I rest

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Speaker 1: back to my husband.

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Speaker 2: Who would care? Nobody would care because it's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: good for you.

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Speaker 1: She has to tweak it to be like I'm doing

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Speaker 1: it in a good way and everybody else is doing

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Speaker 1: it wrong intentionally because it gets our blood boiling to

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Speaker 1: get more engagement, get more views, and to ultimately boost

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Speaker 1: her profile where it's very clear she wants to have

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Speaker 1: a big one, right, and so in some ways this

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Speaker 1: is just a good old fashioned engagement grift where you

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Speaker 1: say things in a way that is intentionally said to

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Speaker 1: be a little bit inflammatory to get more engagement.

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Speaker 4: Right. Gosh, that took me on a rabbit hole of

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Speaker 4: like a dark time in our company where that was

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Speaker 4: like you should make people mad, they'll engage with you, like, please,

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Speaker 4: don't do that.

438
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 1: This is a bit of a side note, but this

439
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 1: is my new like media literacy battle cry, which is

440
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:39,120
Speaker 1: that we should understand how many places on the Internet

441
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,479
Speaker 1: and how many places and influencers and people and content

442
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 1: creators that make up our Internet discourse are doing that.

443
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: They are trying to get one over on us because

444
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 1: it is effective. We already know that social media platforms

445
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: intentionally boost content that gets a lot of engagement that

446
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: makes us angry or gets our hearts racing because it

447
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: is better for their platforms. And so the ynamic or

448
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: anybody who says something that is inflammatory that gets people

449
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,959
Speaker 1: upset that they are rewarded with engagement. That is a

450
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: bad system and we need to be looking at it,

451
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: like I can't tell you how many stupid TikTok skits

452
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: I have gotten sucked into where I'm like, wait a minute,

453
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: why do I care?

454
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 2: Like what this fake scenario says.

455
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: It's happening like the story time of a woman doing

456
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 1: her makeup telling me a made up story about a

457
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: friend that doesn't exist, Like why am I giving this

458
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: my attention? And we need to put a wrench in

459
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: that entire system, that entire machine that continues to crank

460
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 1: out content like that, because it's not good for us.

461
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 4: No, and I think a lot of it is so

462
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 4: And I know you're going to talk about this a

463
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 4: little bit, but it's so dishonest and the time it

464
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 4: takes and perhaps the production it takes to just make

465
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,360
Speaker 4: these videos. I always kind of laugh when I see

466
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 4: like ring lights in their eyes and it's clearly supposed

467
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,120
Speaker 4: to be like, oh I just woke up.

468
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, you did it.

469
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 4: But you do have another example of somebody who has

470
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,120
Speaker 4: a lot of engagement, yes, yes.

471
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 2: And that is Ballerina Farms.

472
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: So if you don't know who Ballerina Farms is, her

473
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: name is Hannah Neeliemann and she is a follower of

474
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 1: the Church of Latter day Saints Akam Mormon. She married

475
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: into the family that owns the airline Jet Blue, So

476
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 1: girl married very well. She is probably not living like

477
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: a rural kind of dependent on the land lifestyle. However,

478
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: if you looked at her content, you might think like, oh,

479
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: she's living a very humble rule existence, because that's what

480
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 1: she wants you to think. She spends a lot of

481
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: time on TikTok, cooking with her eight kids on her farm,

482
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: and when she's not doing that, she is competing in

483
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: beauty pageants. She has almost ten million followers, so a huge,

484
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: huge footprint in the landscape. I would say ballerina Farms.

485
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: I would describe her as like a source of a

486
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: lot of skepticism and frustration. Like she competed in a

487
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: beauty pageant just a few days after she gave birth,

488
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 1: for instance, and people were like, you know, like, you're

489
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 1: probably not in your best shape when you just have

490
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: given birth. What it like People felt some kind of

491
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 1: way about the fact that she was, you know, competing

492
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: in a beauty pageant. But as a recent piece in

493
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: Glamour points out, you really would never know that her

494
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: content is like controversial or is a source of frustration

495
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: or skepticism for people. The piece reads, neely Man has

496
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: never wavered. She doesn't publicly address her haters, she doesn't

497
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: engage with the discourse, and she doesn't try to clear

498
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: the air on, for instance, whether her wealthy father in

499
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: law bought her ranch for her family. She just continues

500
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: to make bread, post videos of her dancing, and live

501
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: her life. She seems to be, at least online, completely

502
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 1: unbothered in content, which of course is its own kind

503
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: of privilege when you have eight kids. But on the

504
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 1: other hand, we have no idea what her reality really

505
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: looks like, do E, And so she does not have

506
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 1: to engage in kind of rage baiting that somebody who

507
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 1: might be a less successful Tradwives influencer might have to

508
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: write like her thing is like I just make my

509
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: bread and like smile weird and like pretend to be

510
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: living a rural, rustic life even though I'm very wealthy

511
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: right right.

512
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 4: And there's a lot of romanticizing of like that kind

513
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 4: of work and that kind of life that I think

514
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 4: I see happen a lot in general. Conservative movements were like,

515
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 4: let's get back to the land. I'm like, do you

516
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 4: know how to get back to the life?

517
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was talking to So my partner grew up

518
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: on a farm in rural upstate New York. When I

519
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: say a farm, I don't know, Like I'm not a

520
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 1: country girl. So when he was like, oh, I grew

521
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 1: up on a farm. My parents will on a farm.

522
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 1: The first time I went to visit his parents, who

523
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: still live on that farm, I was like, oh, I

524
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: don't know what I had been envisioning, but like it

525
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 1: is a farm farm, like a real farm. And so

526
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: he grew up like tending to animals as part of

527
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: his chores, and they would you know, butcher and package steaks,

528
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: you know, for it to eat and to sell, so

529
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: like a real farm, and it's always so funny to

530
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: him and his family. How people online have convinced themselves

531
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: that farm life is.

532
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 2: This like route to a soft, slow life.

533
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 1: That is only true for people who are wealthy, who

534
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: are not actually farming as a source of their existence,

535
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 1: as a source of sustenance, as a source of their

536
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: financial security. Anybody who actually lives on a farm, a

537
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: real farm, where that farm where like you live or die,

538
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,439
Speaker 1: or you eat or don't eat based on how that

539
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: farm is doing, will tell you that it is a

540
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: ton of work. People who have farms are always tired.

541
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: Their schedules are wild. Like this idea that that oh,

542
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: you know, we're just gonna buy a land and start

543
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: a farm, and that that's gonna be an easy, slow life.

544
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. That is just a fiction, a fantasy. Talk

545
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: to anybody who's ever done farming.

546
00:28:57,880 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 2: That's not true.

547
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 3: Have they not seen that little house on the prairie.

548
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 3: They're waking up at four am and going to bed

549
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 3: at nine and they're I know' that's my reference, But

550
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 3: no like to know that they actually have to wake

551
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 3: up at the crack of dawn to make sure whether

552
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 3: it's snowing or raining and all of that, to make

553
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 3: sure they have to take care and tend to all

554
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 3: the things, the living things that are on there, including

555
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 3: any crops, and if they have like workers on there.

556
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 3: And I'm assuming, because I don't know anything about this

557
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 3: Ballerina farmer that if they are that wealthy and they

558
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 3: do actually own a farm, that they do higher workers,

559
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 3: and how little she's active on that farm. Maybe I'm

560
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 3: just sadic, you know, speaking up too much, but just

561
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 3: like that doesn't seem like a thing that she would

562
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 3: be doing while she's also posting pretty little pictures of

563
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 3: herself dancing with her kids.

564
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: I can confirm that they have like a pretty big staff,

565
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: like a pig paid employees who work for them. I

566
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: should all say, Like side note, I have heard some

567
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: horror stories about what is actually like going down on

568
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: that farm. If you were interested, there are reddit rabbit holes,

569
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: but like I cannot confirm any of that myself, so

570
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: like don't have anything to say about it, but that

571
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: is out there about some of the allegations of how

572
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: the animals are treated on that farm, But like, do

573
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: your own research there because I don't know either way.

574
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: But yes, she definitely has paid staff to do the

575
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: actual labor, and again, there's something wrong with that. That's like,

576
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: if that's how you're gonna do it, but then don't

577
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: go on TikTok and make it seem like you are

578
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: doing this work yourself and it's actually not that hard

579
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: and you actually have a slow life, a soft life,

580
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: because that's not true, right, And so I think that's

581
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: sort of like my biggest point is that I think

582
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: that some of these creators are just not being totally

583
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: honest in the way that we understand that most online

584
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: content is probably not honest in some way. But there's

585
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: something about the like trad Wife's Life, Rustic Vibes content

586
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: creators that I think makes it harder to see when

587
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: someone is basically lying to you on the Internet about

588
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: what their life actually looks like. And so Ballerina Farms

589
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: might not have to like Engagement Farm the way that

590
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: the other influencer does, but that doesn't mean that she's

591
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: being totally honest about what is going down in her

592
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,719
Speaker 1: life or that we're getting an honest view of it,

593
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: because you know, what do you call somebody who makes

594
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: content to make their life look a certain way? Maybe

595
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: not totally accurately to sell commercial products a marketer, right,

596
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: Like that is marketing. Ballerina Farms, i would argue, is

597
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: a business, and her social media stick is just part

598
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: of the marketing arm of this business, Like their farm

599
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: is a farm where you can buy boxes of meats

600
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: from it online, like it is a corporate entity, and

601
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: so she is just a like marketing her consumer goods

602
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: to try to get us to buy not just the product,

603
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: but into the whole lifestyle that her product is kind

604
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: of revolves around. And what's also kind of interesting is

605
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,479
Speaker 1: there's this creator, Caro Claire Burkie on TikTok who has

606
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: really made a thing out of doing some media analysis

607
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: around Ballerina Farms as a brand, and she basically is like,

608
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: we don't actually know or see the actual real person

609
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: behind Ballerina Farms, Hannah. We don't really see a real

610
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: view of her life. What we're seeing is the way

611
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: that her corporation or her company wants us to see

612
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: her for marketing purposes. She compares it to the Kardashians,

613
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: who you know, we know have become literal billionaires from

614
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: leveraging a highly curated peak into their personal lives to

615
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: get us to buy into them as a brand. But

616
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: the difference is, she says that the Kardashians are maybe

617
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: even more upfront about this dynamic than these trad wife influencers.

618
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody would be like, oh, the Kardashians

619
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: are just trying to give us an honest look into

620
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 1: the lives of billionaires, and like they're just being sell off.

621
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 2: I don't think anybody would say that.

622
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: Anybody would know like, oh, they want you to buy

623
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: the makeup, the lip kit, the skims, the whatever, this

624
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: to that, and they're leveraging showing a curated look at

625
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: their lives to do that. I think with these trad

626
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: wife influencers, they're just not being honest about what the

627
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: dynamic is.

628
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 3: It feels like it's going backwards, gonna because for a

629
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 3: long while, there was a lot of parents who are

630
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 3: truly honest, like this is what it looks like to

631
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 3: get to our videos here where they're doing the video

632
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 3: and doing it behind the scene, and they're being more

633
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 3: open and transparent. It feels like it's going back to

634
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 3: again where Instagram started and everything was so pretty, that

635
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 3: all the pictures were so perfect, and they had to

636
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 3: show the perfect life in order to get the more

637
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 3: ads and more views. So it feels like it's going

638
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 3: backwards again, just like our society in how they are

639
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 3: trying to romanticize, as you were saying, a lifestyle.

640
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: I think that's a really good point, and I do

641
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: think that that this has something to do with that.

642
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: I think for a while, what popped on social media

643
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: when it came to making content about motherhood was authenticity like, oh,

644
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 1: I'm a mess just like you, Like my kids are filthy,

645
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: and I'm exhausted, and I haven't washed my hair just

646
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 1: like you. And I think that that authenticity maybe became

647
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: leveraged where like that it almost felt like a curated authenticity.

648
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 2: And so I almost.

649
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: Wonder if this trad Wives kind of perfection is a

650
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: response to this authenticity that kind of typified motherhood content

651
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: on the Internet of a certain era. Like if it

652
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: was cool to be authentic, then now what's cool is

653
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: like being being like isn't my life perfect?

654
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 2: Like we're just coming back around.

655
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 3: Coming back in that circle. And just as a reminder,

656
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 3: with her having that many followers and that many views,

657
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 3: she's making lots of money just off of her tiktoks,

658
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 3: lots of money.

659
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: Yes, like that is my thing, there's no shame in it,

660
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: but like this is a business. And in my interview

661
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: with Joe, she puts it really well that if you're

662
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: somebody who is setting up a tripod, setting up lighting,

663
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: putting on a face of makeup, putting on a particular outfit,

664
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: to film content that you then edit published to millions

665
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 1: of your followers, and have built up a social media

666
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 1: platform that might involve navigating like brand deals or sponsored posts,

667
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: you have a job that is employment, that is labor.

668
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: So you have a situation where some of these women

669
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: are making content about how they do not do wage

670
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: earning work, but the strategy that in which they are

671
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 1: doing that is work.

672
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 2: It's like a mind.

673
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 3: Like I feel like they forgot the mom blogs, which

674
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 3: was the beginning honestly of all of this and the

675
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,439
Speaker 3: way that it was created. It was stay at home

676
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 3: moms trying to figure out how to make money to

677
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 3: help the sists and figuring out this is this is

678
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 3: profitable and has now ventured into this and as where

679
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 3: the blogs were curated in a way that it was

680
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 3: written and entertaining, this is an entertainment on a different

681
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 3: level which is a show? Is a show?

682
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 2: Pretty much? Yeah, Like in some ways this is just like.

683
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: Entertainment, Like it's like using curating a version of your

684
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: life for entertainment value, right. And I've actually even heard

685
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: the theory that at least some of this content is

686
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: fetish content, like sexual fetish content that are not actually

687
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 1: meant to be speaking to women at all or saying

688
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: anything or making any kind of comment about women and

689
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: what we should be doing with our lives or not

690
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: doing with our lives. That it's meant to appeal to

691
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: horny men and their submissive wife sexual fantasies, and that

692
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: these creators have just sort of found a way to

693
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: make fetish content in a way that does not trigger

694
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 1: you know, TikTok or whatever's not safe for work content sensors,

695
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: and so like, if that's what's going on, like more

696
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: power to you, you know, do your thing. But we

697
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: need to come at this content with a little bit

698
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 1: of like media literacy and criticism, because people would then

699
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: take that content and then use it to make some

700
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: kind of a point or a statement or turn it

701
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: into a way to understand our own lives.

702
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 2: And it's like, well, why would you be doing that?

703
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: With fetish content, Like, I don't think it's I don't

704
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 1: think it's meant to help you understand how you should

705
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: be living your life or making your choices.

706
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it could be accidentally fetish.

707
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 4: Right, Well, there's a we passed over it. But there

708
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 4: was a note you had in your outline that I

709
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 4: was I thought was interesting was that it's sort of

710
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,760
Speaker 4: like Cause playing a certain type of life. Right after

711
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 4: the insurrection happened on January sixth, I read this really

712
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 4: long article about like a lot of people there were

713
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 4: Cause playing, like the idea of Okay, I'm going to

714
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 4: take back our country, and then they get into trouble

715
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 4: and all of a sudden they're in court and they're like,

716
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 4: oh God, Well, like the consequences come and it just

717
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 4: falls apart. So it does have these sort of implications

718
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 4: that I don't think people think about when people watch

719
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 4: that and it gets in their head and they get

720
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 4: this idea of like, oh, I can live that life,

721
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 4: I can live off the land, or I can do

722
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 4: all these things, but the reality is not there, and

723
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 4: it can become a really toxic soup that infects all

724
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 4: of us. And it sounds like, based on my experience,

725
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 4: and what you're saying that we're getting a lot more

726
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 4: of this content right now.

727
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,720
Speaker 1: That is such a good way to put it, and

728
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: something that I didn't have. But I just want to

729
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: say is that I want to make it clear that

730
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 1: I think that everybody should be able to do what

731
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 1: they want to do. Like my feminism is about letting

732
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: people make choices for themselves.

733
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 2: If that choice is to.

734
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: Like rage bait other women online for their choices, I

735
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 1: don't love that, but you know, in terms of if

736
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: you want to stay at home or work.

737
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 2: That should be your choice.

738
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: However, one thing I will say is that I have

739
00:38:54,680 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: definitely seen an uptick in people giving younger women that

740
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: they should just marry and start having kids really young.

741
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 1: And I don't generally get down for one size fits

742
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 1: all advice, but for someone really young to tell them

743
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 1: that they should not know anything about having their own

744
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: money or managing their own money, that they should not

745
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: try to have any kind of employment history, should this

746
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 1: marriage fall apart, should there something happen to their partner, whatever,

747
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: I think that is really dangerous advice. Even if you're

748
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,919
Speaker 1: somebody who wants to get married young, wants to have kids, young,

749
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: wants to have a submissive traditional marriage. Do all of

750
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: those things, but make sure that you know how to

751
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 1: take care of yourself and live your own life, because

752
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 1: nothing in life is guaranteed, Like you could be happily

753
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: married forever and get married very young and then have

754
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: your partner die unexpectedly or something right. And so I

755
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: think that we're giving young women advice based on a

756
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 1: fantasy that does not come.

757
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 2: To fruition in reality.

758
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 1: And I think you're right, Annie, that we are seeing

759
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: more and more of this kind of content. And I

760
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 1: just don't think we can talk about the rise of

761
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 1: this kind of online tradwife content without looking at where

762
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,240
Speaker 1: we are as women right now, which is not great.

763
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: You know, we've experienced this major rollback of our rights.

764
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: The Journal of the American Medical Association actually put out

765
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: a report just this week that found that since Roe fell,

766
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: rape has led to an estimated fifty eight, nine hundred

767
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: and seventy nine pregnancies in states that ban abortion without

768
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: exception for rape.

769
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 2: That is staggering. You know. We also are.

770
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: Facing rising costs of things like groceries and housing. Bloomberg

771
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: found that on average, US households want to spend an

772
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: extra five two hundred dollars this year just to be

773
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: able to enjoy the exact same standard of living that

774
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: they did last year. Add to that things like climate instability,

775
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: political instability, all things that historically women have really for

776
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 1: the burden of. And so I just can't help but

777
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: think that we're seeing this rise in content that romanticizes

778
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 1: and glorifies times when women had even less rights than

779
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,240
Speaker 1: we do right now is related to what's happening currently,

780
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: which brings me to the last thing that I want

781
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: people to really keep in mind when they encounter this

782
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: content online is that I believe that trad wive content

783
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: is responding, albeit oftentimes in a very distorted way, to

784
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: very very real issues that we're facing as women. You know,

785
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 1: we're kind of being served a crap sandwich right now

786
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: from being honest with you, Like, we don't have paid leave,

787
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: we don't have affordable childcare, we don't have any real

788
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,919
Speaker 1: social safety net. Women are burdened with more and more

789
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: of the labor that it takes to keep a family

790
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: stable with very little social or institutional help. And it

791
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: just doesn't surprise me that we're seeing this online glorification

792
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: of stay at home parenthood in a particular kind of

793
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 1: way right now as a reaction to it. And I

794
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: think that something that gets left out of the discourse

795
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 1: is that the reasons that women are staying home are

796
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: not necessarily like to deprogram their kids from government instruction

797
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: or whatever. The A lot of times it's because childcare

798
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: is so f being expensive that it does not make

799
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 1: financial sense to work outside of the home anymore. Or

800
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: maybe on the flip side, both parents are working and

801
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 1: they're just like figuring it out and just squeezing by

802
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: a lot of people are just doing what they have

803
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,280
Speaker 1: to do based on financial circumstances that are not great,

804
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: and so that is a very different thing from choosing

805
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: to work because feminism and like woke society says that

806
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 1: you have to. It is like some of these creators

807
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 1: are creating a straw man for why women either work

808
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: outside of the home or don't, and that's actually not

809
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 1: a reflection of the reality that most parents are facing

810
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 1: right now.

811
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

812
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 4: I mean, especially during the beginning of the pandemic, there

813
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 4: was so many articles about that of like women work

814
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 4: being forced out of the workforce, like all of the

815
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 4: scientific papers from women decreased, And I think it's interesting

816
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 4: a lot of content like this immediately out the gate

817
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 4: feels defensive for whatever lifestyle. And I could see it

818
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 4: being defensive from like women judging you, but you also

819
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,760
Speaker 4: see it being maybe trying to find like a reason

820
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 4: that it's okay that you didn't have the choice, So

821
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 4: let me make this look prettier. And I no, I

822
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,439
Speaker 4: definitely like it, and this is definitely what I want,

823
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 4: so I can. I think that totally makes sense, Bridget.

824
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 3: And I think people are picking up on it because

825
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 3: women are tired and would just love for someone to

826
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 3: do it, like, yes, you go out and work and

827
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 3: let me just chill here, which is not the truth

828
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 3: that at all, but the way they make it look

829
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 3: like while I sit here with these pretty little kids

830
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 3: and tell them to go take a nap, like which

831
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 3: if you've been any childcare, you know that's not the thing.

832
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 3: And everything's a mess and everything's a disaster, and cooking

833
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 3: is hard, and being a stay at home mom is

834
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,919
Speaker 3: a full time job in itself and deserves pay. Which

835
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 3: is the other conversation that they don't want to have

836
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 3: chidwives is that a lot of those stay at home

837
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,280
Speaker 3: moms who love it also are like, but we should

838
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 3: be paid. Yeah, absolutely should.

839
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 2: It's labor, I mean absolutely exactly. So I think you're right.

840
00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: I think a lot of these influencers can really over

841
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 1: simplify and glamorize what is ultimately a dynamic that does

842
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: not allow for women to make the choices they want

843
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 1: to make.

844
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 2: Because being a stay at.

845
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: Home mom because you cannot afford daycare is not the

846
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 1: same thing as choosing it for yourself because it's what

847
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 1: you want to do.

848
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 2: And it's because you can't afford to do it.

849
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,280
Speaker 1: And I think that ultimately women deserve to have choices,

850
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: if you deserve to have better choices to be able

851
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: to do what we want to do with our lives.

852
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 3: Yep, women do women?

853
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 2: Yes?

854
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 4: Women, Yes, agreed, agreed one thousand percent. Well, thanks as always, Bridget. Again,

855
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 4: I feel like we could go on and on and on,

856
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 4: but we will let you go for now. Where can

857
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 4: the good listeners find you?

858
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 2: Well, you can listen to my podcast. There are no

859
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 2: girls on the internet.

860
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,280
Speaker 1: If you want to hear my full conversation with Joe Piazza,

861
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: we put it out as recently. She's hilarious. Definitely recommend

862
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 1: confine me on Instagram at Bridget Marie in DC or

863
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: on TikTok at Bridget mix pods.

864
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,399
Speaker 4: Yes, and hopefully we'll be able to do some ir

865
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 4: L things and maybe we can see some of you

866
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 4: all there, listeners.

867
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 2: Let's hope so TVD stay tuned.

868
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 4: Yes, stay tuned well. Thanks as always, Bridget and listeners.

869
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 4: If you would like to contact us, you can our

870
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 4: email Stephania Mom, stuff atiheartmea dot com. You can find

871
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 4: us on Twitter at most up podcast or on TikTok

872
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 4: which we don't post very often, but we might start

873
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 4: posting more. It's a gram at stuff Mom Never Told You.

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Speaker 4: We have a tea public store, and we have a

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Speaker 4: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks

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Speaker 4: as always to our super producer Christina, executive producer and

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Speaker 4: our contributor Joey.

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Speaker 3: Thank you and thanks to you for listening.

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Speaker 4: Stuff Never Told You is production by Heart Radio. For

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Speaker 4: more podcast or my heart Radio, you can check out

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Speaker 4: the Heart Radio, a Apple podcast wherever you listen to

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Speaker 4: your favorite shows.