Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Podcast. Today's
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Speaker 1: Today's episode is with Hi Mayds, the legendary golf writer
Speaker 1: and now TV personality, Hi may I mean, I can't.
Speaker 1: I've been reading Hi Mayds for my entire life, and
Speaker 1: it was just really awesome to have him on. One
Speaker 1: of the greatest golf writers in the history of the game,
Speaker 1: and obviously years at Sports Illustrated, New York Times, Golf Digest.
Speaker 1: Later now he's at the Golf Channel. He will be
Speaker 1: on live from all week. Hi may was great. We
Speaker 1: did our typical five Things episode leading into this Open Championship,
Speaker 1: so we talk about Royal Saint George's, the opens he's
Speaker 1: covered there the opens throughout time he's covered, shared some stories,
Speaker 1: memories that he's had over the years. It was really
Speaker 1: really fun talking to Hi may If you've missed study
Speaker 1: of our content, be sure to go to the Frida
Speaker 1: Egg dot com. We've had a lot of articles. We
Speaker 1: have daily newsletters to sign up there. But we had
Speaker 1: to put together a Q and A with Tom Doak
Speaker 1: on Royal Saint George's. We had Garrett posted a podcast
Speaker 1: and a article accompanied article about the history of Royal
Speaker 1: Saint George's, So check that out. At the fridagg dot
Speaker 1: com And now, without further ado, here is him ds.
Speaker 2: I miss a green.
Speaker 1: For example, I'm already upset when I find my ball
Speaker 1: in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I find
Speaker 1: my ball in a brid egg Friday egg, the dreaded
Speaker 1: Frida egg Frida, egg Frida, egg Brian egg Frida, egg
Speaker 1: Bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off of
Speaker 1: the home course. They just like they turn the camera
Speaker 1: on and they go like say, it's just like.
Speaker 2: Literally go yeah, producer, go okay, Rich, go and that's it.
Speaker 2: Not even tell them what the topic is. Necessarily okay, koepka,
Speaker 2: go Rich, that's it. And he'll and he'll nail it.
Speaker 2: And and then if he screws up or in his
Speaker 2: mind screws up, he'll go, let me do it again,
Speaker 2: and then you know, he'll do something completely different. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's amazing.
Speaker 1: That leads perfectly into you know what, what's the difference
Speaker 1: between how you cover a week on TV TV wise
Speaker 1: versus the days of s I New York Times, You
Speaker 1: know when the Golden Age really I think of golf writing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was very fortunate, but I was always a
Speaker 2: grinder and a toiler. So you know, I liked just
Speaker 2: hanging around and immersing in whatever player I was watching,
Speaker 2: and waiting around for an hour to ask one question
Speaker 2: or hoping I could, you know, maybe catch a guy
Speaker 2: after he finished. And this is what I'm talking about,
Speaker 2: the writing experience, and then you know, maybe have an
Speaker 2: idea and have to have a conversation. And you know,
Speaker 2: not only is television different, but golf writing and journalism
Speaker 2: in general has has become different in that regard too.
Speaker 2: I mean there's not as much the players don't have
Speaker 2: as much free time, they don't have as much inclination
Speaker 2: to talk to writers, and so these kind of philosophical
Speaker 2: and deep discussions that you would sometimes be able to
Speaker 2: have with a player just because maybe they were looking
Speaker 2: for somebody to talk to after a long practice round,
Speaker 2: they might be interested. I love talking to the people
Speaker 2: and writing and even going over my notes and stuff,
Speaker 2: but then having to put it into a cogent form
Speaker 2: was always hard. And so writing I think there's more.
Speaker 2: There's more chip away at the marvel until it starts
Speaker 2: looking like something kind of process, where TV is more instantaneous.
Speaker 2: And that's why I admire the people I work with
Speaker 2: so much how how adroit they are just coming up
Speaker 2: with with something, yeah, a nice idea, but delivering it
Speaker 2: so smoothly, seamlessly, so that even if there's not a
Speaker 2: lot of substance, because maybe there wasn't enough time to
Speaker 2: really report something in depth, it still sounds really good
Speaker 2: and it still makes the point. And so I think
Speaker 2: television is more of a you know, you move on.
Speaker 2: There's always another chance. You're going to be on for
Speaker 2: a long time. It's not necessarily the definitive piece, and
Speaker 2: then you'll get it. You'll get another opportunity to polish
Speaker 2: perhaps the same subject, or at least use an idea
Speaker 2: you didn't use because you couldn't think of it in
Speaker 2: the moment. But I think the main thing is do
Speaker 2: you have television chops? That's what you know? Are you
Speaker 2: able to to say things in a way that is
Speaker 2: pleasing to the ear, makes the point and it's concise,
Speaker 2: and that that is you know. The thing about writing
Speaker 2: is you have drafts. I mean, yeah, yeah, you might,
Speaker 2: you might aim for that final goal. Uh, but you're
Speaker 2: gonna have a lot of chances as you self edit.
Speaker 2: With television, it's generally one shot. You can't you really
Speaker 2: can say to the producer and let's just a complete
Speaker 2: with hey can I do that again? It just there's
Speaker 2: too many demands, there's too many people involved, and you
Speaker 2: have to live with that imperfection, uh, even more than
Speaker 2: you do in writing.
Speaker 1: It's the thing you said about time with players. It's
Speaker 1: an interesting one because I think they you know, they
Speaker 1: still have a lot of time. But you know, it's
Speaker 1: probably this whole thing that's plagues all society, that technology
Speaker 1: has made everybody feel like they have less time because
Speaker 1: they're always connected. And then I imagine with the money,
Speaker 1: you know, there're a lot more families that are traveling
Speaker 1: with players more so than ever before, which you know
Speaker 1: obviously cuts into time. But and then also like the Netflix,
Speaker 1: like I gotta get back and pinch the show that
Speaker 1: I'm really into is another thing. But but that's a
Speaker 1: you know, I never thought about just the sheer time
Speaker 1: because you know, without a cell phone, once your once
Speaker 1: your subwhere I lived, I broke my phone on a
Speaker 1: trip recently and I just realized, like, how wonderful was
Speaker 1: so I just go just to wander about with nothing
Speaker 1: to do. But like I've actined, that's you know, players
Speaker 1: wouldn't they didn't have anything going on. It's like I
Speaker 1: play in a tournament, I don't have anything going on,
Speaker 1: and they could just sit and talk.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was more gathering in the caddy yard because
Speaker 2: players would hang out in there. A lot of players
Speaker 2: to eat in the caddy yard just to have the
Speaker 2: conversations and uh. And the caddy culture has always been
Speaker 2: the most verbal anyway, because those guys do have a
Speaker 2: lot of time to hang around waiting for players, at
Speaker 2: least in the old days. Yeah, now everything is more
Speaker 2: streamlined Nowity, the priority for a player now is you know,
Speaker 2: the priorities the media has gone down in priority, and
Speaker 2: not because the preenie is not important to them. It's
Speaker 2: just that I think before they were there were you know,
Speaker 2: kind of business reasons to be engaged with media becase
Speaker 2: because your sponsors and your endorsers would want you to
Speaker 2: be in the public eye and and and so you know,
Speaker 2: talking to media was there was self interested in that
Speaker 2: and motivation. Now I think they still want good relationship
Speaker 2: with the media, but there's a lot of other ways
Speaker 2: for players to to make money and and and certainly
Speaker 2: you know, to create their own brand. And then there's
Speaker 2: also with with the Internet and uh and social media.
Speaker 2: There's distrust of media because a lot of things get
Speaker 2: out there that they can't control that perhaps cause them
Speaker 2: problems that they don't need. It's like, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: if I and and and then with other demands on
Speaker 2: them like family, like like what the phone does, the
Speaker 2: practice time becomes more regimented too. So it's like they
Speaker 2: go to the golf course and they're efficient. They're more
Speaker 2: efficient about every where they move. They go to the physio,
Speaker 2: you know, they go to the range. You know, maybe
Speaker 2: they do an interview, but it's it's all very compartmentalized.
Speaker 2: There's just and I'm not they were all all wandering aimlessly.
Speaker 2: I mean the number one players always were very kind
Speaker 2: of regimented. I mean Jack Nicholas was very organized, and
Speaker 2: Tiger became very organized. But it's always it was the
Speaker 2: fun guys were sort of the journeyman pros that you
Speaker 2: sort of see and you know, and you might even say,
Speaker 2: how's it going, you know, and half an hour later
Speaker 2: you you've had a nice conversation, but you've also learned
Speaker 2: a lot about golf. And I thought that was really
Speaker 2: instructive for me and very rich experience as a golf writer,
Speaker 2: just conversations with players.
Speaker 1: You know, I was at Q for the first major,
Speaker 1: first time I've been out covering an event in a while,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's the PGL stuff swirling around at
Speaker 1: that point of the year, and I go, I go
Speaker 1: up to you know, a guy that I've gotten to know,
Speaker 1: and he's not an a list player, not really probably
Speaker 1: a blest flair and I asked him like about the
Speaker 1: PGL stuff, and he gave me just the most candid
Speaker 1: aster because I can't wait. I can't wait for there
Speaker 1: to be an A tour and a B Tour. I
Speaker 1: can't wait to play on the B Tour. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like something you'd never expect a pro golferspective.
Speaker 2: From his perspective, it makes sense, but that's the kind
Speaker 2: of thing. Yeah, you'd never see someone like that get
Speaker 2: pulled into the media room. And that's that's where a
Speaker 2: lot of the interviews take place now, because again sort
Speaker 2: of programmed that the players, this is my media time,
Speaker 2: and I'll do the car wash, as they say, I'll
Speaker 2: talk to all the guys you know with the outlets
Speaker 2: with microphones and I'll do the separate interviews and then
Speaker 2: I'll do the mass interview in the media room, and
Speaker 2: you know, once they're done with that, they don't generally
Speaker 2: stop and talk to writers very much before. It would
Speaker 2: be a little bit like a free for all. And
Speaker 2: you can you can even read it in some of
Speaker 2: the old stories. Uh, you can sort of the set
Speaker 2: the scene in your head as Jan Jenkins, you know,
Speaker 2: shares a cigarette with you know, with whoever, Don January
Speaker 2: or somebody and starts talking about things that you know,
Speaker 2: give him material that he then would use. Maybe you
Speaker 2: wouldn't quote Don January, but it was because he had
Speaker 2: those those times and moments and leisure to kind of
Speaker 2: develop an idea and have a nice relaxed conversation that
Speaker 2: he got a lot of the great stuff that he got.
Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite's open Championship Week? Do you
Speaker 1: have a favorite open? Uh from you know, either back
Speaker 1: the day or more more recent memory that was your
Speaker 1: favorite one to cover? Maybe your favorite Sunday game story
Speaker 1: that you you cranked out or got got done under
Speaker 1: the wire that like you didn't know where it was
Speaker 1: going when you started.
Speaker 2: I never Yeah, well that was always the issue. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: just narrowing down the you know, scattershot ideas and finally
Speaker 2: and that you know, was kind of a curse actually
Speaker 2: sports illustrated in a way to it doesn't It didn't
Speaker 2: seem like any a lot of time at all before
Speaker 2: now he would write overnight and so you got, I
Speaker 2: got all night. I'll just pull them all night and
Speaker 2: I'll think of something good and that could end up
Speaker 2: being you know, horrible uh cycle of indecision and panic.
Speaker 2: But no, in general, you know, when when the bell rings,
Speaker 2: something happens to you. I mean, you can choke, but
Speaker 2: it can also your your your senses get more attuned.
Speaker 2: You you start thinking clearly under the gun a little more,
Speaker 2: and sometimes you wait for the deadline on purpose in
Speaker 2: a way, and that's that's a terrible procrastination habit. But
Speaker 2: sometimes I just read a story about this, I don't
Speaker 2: know where it was Atlantic or something about how procrastinators
Speaker 2: have a have a method to their madness, because there's
Speaker 2: a certain level of stress that produces your best thinking
Speaker 2: and your best performance. But as far as favorite, gosh,
Speaker 2: you know, it's also individual and random in this. But
Speaker 2: I remember eighty nine at Troon just being magical, and
Speaker 2: it was kind of tragic because because Greg Norman should
Speaker 2: have won that tournament probably, and it was a three
Speaker 2: way playoff with he and Wayne Grady and Calc. And
Speaker 2: I always like Calc. He's a great talk and very funny.
Speaker 2: And he was a young gun at that time. You know,
Speaker 2: he had won already three years before, but he was
Speaker 2: in his prime. He probably could have won the Masters
Speaker 2: in eighty eight when when Lyle hit that great shot
Speaker 2: out of the bunker that BERTI the last hole to
Speaker 2: beat him by one. So he was formidable. But it
Speaker 2: was also the if I'm not mistaken, the first four
Speaker 2: whole playoffs, you know, late at night, and it was
Speaker 2: just so, you know, in the gloaming there on a
Speaker 2: links it was just very and I'd watched a lot
Speaker 2: of the golf that day during the Sunday and seem
Speaker 2: Greg and and of course by this time Norman's been
Speaker 2: nipped at the end, sometimes by his own, you know,
Speaker 2: his own mistakes, but sometimes by miracles like like Larry
Speaker 2: miiu's chip and stuff. So he was kind of snake
Speaker 2: bit there too. He knocked in the bunker on eighteen
Speaker 2: on on on the last hole, his last play off hole,
Speaker 2: a bunker. He didn't think you could reach, but it
Speaker 2: rolled in because he smoked it. But anyway, I'm not
Speaker 2: giving you a great answer except to say that because
Speaker 2: it was just kind of I felt like I was
Speaker 2: really connected to it as it was happening and all
Speaker 2: the players involved, and because of the access and because
Speaker 2: of the playoff, it just it created this really nice
Speaker 2: drama to watch. But you know, the settings are often incredible.
Speaker 2: Ninety two and when excuse me, nineteen ninety when when
Speaker 2: Faldo won that was a tour de force at St. Andrews.
Speaker 2: And Valdo was not an overpowering player, but he was,
Speaker 2: as you know, just so incredibly precise, and he as
Speaker 2: he had wanted the Masters without great length. He also
Speaker 2: sort of really charted and played chess at St Andrews
Speaker 2: at the old Course, and I think it was nineteen
Speaker 2: eighteen under and he set a record and it was
Speaker 2: just wallless golf and being at St andrew magical in
Speaker 2: its own right. So to see a great tournament there
Speaker 2: in a great performance was really special.
Speaker 1: With Calc he was like at that point dubbed like
Speaker 1: the next big thing, right, and then it kind of
Speaker 1: set up but became, you know, labeled as a disappointment.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it might be overstated in the next big thing,
Speaker 2: but there he certainly went up in stature tremendously because
Speaker 2: he hit two really clutch shots. He buried eighteen with
Speaker 2: a five iron. I remember that shot because I was
Speaker 2: walking right next to him. And then and then in
Speaker 2: the playoff he striped it on there too, So there
Speaker 2: was a sense that this guy's a great closer. But
Speaker 2: if you talk to Calc he'll say, I'm the worst
Speaker 2: closer whoever lived. And I believe he has twenty nine
Speaker 2: second places. I mean, I think he has the biggest
Speaker 2: ratio of second places the first places of anybody who's
Speaker 2: ever won ten tournaments in history. That's a hard thing
Speaker 2: to chart completely because the records aren't perfect in that regard.
Speaker 1: But that's it's like the next these days, right, you know,
Speaker 1: And when reality, like I think the reality is we
Speaker 1: should be saying, like, hey, maybe next pill or Ernie.
Speaker 1: And that would be a really lofty claim, right you know.
Speaker 2: I guess when once someone set the standard, you know,
Speaker 2: that becomes what everybody's is going to measure by and
Speaker 2: aspire to. And the funny thing is, when you know,
Speaker 2: I remember a lot of stories in the nineties about how, oh,
Speaker 2: there's so much parody, they'll never be another dominant player,
Speaker 2: and it made perfect sense. I mean, there was one
Speaker 2: run I think in the eighties where nineteen different guys
Speaker 2: won a major, so there was very little kind of
Speaker 2: you know, especially in the majors domination. I mean, we've
Speaker 2: had Nicholas of course and his his era kind of
Speaker 2: in the eighties, but Watson was was really a prominent
Speaker 2: early eighties, and then it started to look like, gosh,
Speaker 2: maybe though that that time where there's an incredibly uh
Speaker 2: you know, dominant number one is over. It's just there's
Speaker 2: too much depth, there's too many young players that are
Speaker 2: coming up, powers become more important, the same arguments you
Speaker 2: hear now. But then Tiger shows up in the mid
Speaker 2: nineties and nobody's ever been more dominant. So I'm not
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say I learned my lesson on that, But I.
Speaker 1: Mean history tends to repeat itself, too, right, it.
Speaker 2: Could repeat I mean, you know, there could be another
Speaker 2: Tiger in our midst It was six years old right now.
Speaker 1: You know, with it be a Royal Saint George's. You
Speaker 1: covered Royal State George's opens in the past. Any any
Speaker 1: favorite beatories are ones that stand out from opens at
Speaker 1: Royal Saint George's on the ground.
Speaker 2: Well, two thousand and four was very tough loss for
Speaker 2: Thomas Bjorn, but it was also a tough loss, as
Speaker 2: you know, he left it in the bunker twice on
Speaker 2: sixteen with a with a two stroke lead, and then
Speaker 2: bogie seventeen and lost, and Ben Curtis had played ahead
Speaker 2: and made a he made a ten footer for a
Speaker 2: par on eighteen that turned out to be the winning put.
Speaker 2: But but VJ was right there, and Tiger was right there,
Speaker 2: and even Phil was was lurking, and Phil at that
Speaker 2: time was not contending in many Open championships. So that was,
Speaker 2: you know, a good one.
Speaker 1: It seemed like with Phil. With Phil, twenty eleven seemed
Speaker 1: like a real turning point in his open career.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he talked about it even then, he's going, I
Speaker 2: think I made a breakthrough. But ninety two I think
Speaker 2: was probably my favorite at Saint George's just because it
Speaker 2: was it was a real virtuoso performance by by Greg
Speaker 2: and it was you know, you love to see him capitalize.
Speaker 2: I did, anyway, capitalize on some really great golf that
Speaker 2: he had not capitalized in the past, and he had
Speaker 2: he'd gone through a big rebuild of his golf swing
Speaker 2: with with with Charmon for about a year and a half,
Speaker 2: and that was the validation that it was that it worked.
Speaker 2: And you know, we've we used to hear about rebuilds
Speaker 2: all the time with Faldo and and even you know,
Speaker 2: Hank Haney with Omira, and then you know when Tiger started.
Speaker 2: When Tiger did it, it was like he was following
Speaker 2: that model. You know that, Hey, it worked for Butch,
Speaker 2: with with fou with Norman, and led better with Faldo
Speaker 2: and Hani with o'meira. This is what guys do when
Speaker 2: they get better. So I want to I want to
Speaker 2: do it too, uh. And he's always been, you know,
Speaker 2: he always loved the idea of constant improvement. But I
Speaker 2: think it's debatable whether Tiger really had the kind of
Speaker 2: success with his rebuild that the others had had. And
Speaker 2: there's many who argue that his best golf swing was
Speaker 2: the one he brought out on tour, or at least
Speaker 2: the one maybe he refined one time with Butch by
Speaker 2: two thousand and who knows what happens to a golfer.
Speaker 2: The body changes, the fields change, habits get ingrained, and
Speaker 2: suddenly the swings doesn't look quite as effortless. So maybe
Speaker 2: Tiger fought that off with his swing changes. But I
Speaker 2: don't think anybody considers the swings that he had later
Speaker 2: in his career to be better than the ones he
Speaker 2: had early in his career.
Speaker 1: But you know, the the rap on Royal St. George's
Speaker 1: is these not big winners. And then you look down
Speaker 1: the list and you see Greg Norman and Sandy Lyle
Speaker 1: and it's like, you know, those you know, they might
Speaker 1: not have won the most majors, they might be you know,
Speaker 1: I think those two guys, when you look back on history,
Speaker 1: are two of the guys that maybe didn't win nearly
Speaker 1: as much as they should have or their talent dictated
Speaker 1: they would win. You know, with Sandy Lyle, he was
Speaker 1: obviously like an overwhelmingly powerful player. You know, there were
Speaker 1: tails of his one iron going past most guys drivers.
Speaker 1: And then Greg Norman obviously gave more majors away than
Speaker 1: he won. But you know, you look down the list
Speaker 1: and then you got Bobby Locke and Walter Hagen and
Speaker 1: Harry Harden. It's like, you know, Ben Curtis, Darren Clark,
Speaker 1: and Bill Rogers. Bill Rogers at the time was like,
Speaker 1: it seems like it just doesn't really that's not a
Speaker 1: good argument against Royal State George's.
Speaker 2: It's a good rebuttal. You make a good rebuttal, and
Speaker 2: you're right, certainly, it's just been too long since the
Speaker 2: Barden and Hagen each won twice St George's, So that's validation,
Speaker 2: you think. And Henry Cotton was a special player. Then
Speaker 2: you look at you know, Reg Whitcombe, Well nobody remembers him,
Speaker 2: but that supposed it was the worst weather ever in
Speaker 2: a major. Bobby Locke was perhaps the most underrated player
Speaker 2: of that first half century, if not even the whole century.
Speaker 2: I think one thing that causes that narrative to arise
Speaker 2: is Bill Rogers. Sandy Lyle completely lost it, which mysteriously,
Speaker 2: I mean, Bill Rogers was done by nineteen eighty three,
Speaker 2: after being really number one in the world. They didn't
Speaker 2: have the world ranking. Event.
Speaker 1: Well, he won Player of the Year that year.
Speaker 2: He won Player of the Year and he won seven times.
Speaker 2: You know, he was really a special talent. And it
Speaker 2: was coming at a time of course Watson was in
Speaker 2: his prime. But it was like, well there's going to
Speaker 2: be a change of the guard here and it looks
Speaker 2: like Bill Rodgers is going to be part of it
Speaker 2: and didn't happen. And then Lyle really had immense talent.
Speaker 2: I mean, he won the two Majors, he won the Masters.
Speaker 2: I remember Seve being asked, you know, because there was
Speaker 2: the big sin, you know, you got if all of
Speaker 2: you played your best, and this would be Lyle and
Speaker 2: Faldo and Sevy long Ball and Woozy uh and Longer,
Speaker 2: who would who would be the best? He goes, oh, Sandy,
Speaker 2: you know, Sandy would be the best, because it was
Speaker 2: just a given. As we were alluding to his one
Speaker 2: iron there. I did see that at the Ryder Cup
Speaker 2: in eighty seven and he was hitting one iron past
Speaker 2: Andy Bean's driver, you know, and Andy Bean was not short.
Speaker 2: It was it was really a special, you know, display
Speaker 2: of real kind of an edge of talent that he
Speaker 2: had over others, you know, Ben Curtis, Okay, he was
Speaker 2: not a great player, but that was a great victory
Speaker 2: and he did win. Otherwise, I guess what I'm saying
Speaker 2: is at the time these guys won, and even Greg,
Speaker 2: they were not really or very shortly after they were
Speaker 2: sort of out of the limelight. So they didn't have
Speaker 2: that enduring kind of name that that made you think
Speaker 2: of him when you look back at Saint George's, Oh
Speaker 2: that guy was great, it was it was more that
Speaker 2: guy had a moment in time. Now Gregor, of course
Speaker 2: had more than a moment in time. But even Greg
Speaker 2: after he won in ninety three, it was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: now he's going to click in. This is going to
Speaker 2: be the second period of his greatness. It's going to
Speaker 2: be even better. And the next the next major was
Speaker 2: the PGA at at Inwardness, and sure enough he lifts
Speaker 2: one out on eighteen. That was pretty far in the hole.
Speaker 2: It's going to playoff with Asinger, and then he lifts
Speaker 2: out again on the playoff hole. I think it was
Speaker 2: a three hole playoff or maybe a sudden death. Anyway,
Speaker 2: he ends up three putting and losing, and again it
Speaker 2: was like, oh Greg has snake bit again. And sure
Speaker 2: enough did not win another major. Now he did have
Speaker 2: that Great Players Championship where he was twenty four under,
Speaker 2: but he didn't fulfill that vision of what Greg Norman
Speaker 2: was supposed to be. So that's, you know, in a
Speaker 2: very very vague way, it does reflect a little on
Speaker 2: a Saint George's victory of the way it's remembered, because
Speaker 2: Greg is not remembered as the great player that he
Speaker 2: probably should be remembered as.
Speaker 1: Let's get into the five things. You know, we each
Speaker 1: come up with five things. You're you're the guy, I'm
Speaker 1: the host, I make the rules. You're you're up first.
Speaker 2: All right, Well there, you know, I just started thinking
Speaker 2: more in terms of players. But I'll start with one
Speaker 2: that just like conceptual a little bit, you know, will
Speaker 2: we see links shots real link shots this week? And
Speaker 2: and I only say that because as much as I
Speaker 2: love the links courses in the Championships, there seems to
Speaker 2: be two things that are happening. You don't You don't
Speaker 2: see him bone dry very often anymore. Maybe that maybe
Speaker 2: just be a function of weather. I mean, we did
Speaker 2: see that hoy Lake when Tiger won. That was and
Speaker 2: that was cool, and that was really very linksy. The
Speaker 2: way they had to play approach shots. And secondly, the
Speaker 2: style of play. I think it's kind of been with
Speaker 2: modern equipment just as effective to just hit pure blooded
Speaker 2: regular shots, uh and just play for a little bounce
Speaker 2: on a links instead of trying to carve all these
Speaker 2: artistic Trevino, Peter Thompson, you know, uh, you know wind shots,
Speaker 2: well not I don't see I don't see it very all.
Speaker 2: You expect to see it at the at the Open,
Speaker 2: and I haven't seen it at the Open very often,
Speaker 2: So I just wonder, what do you think.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the same thing with Renaissance Club like
Speaker 1: last week. You know, I expected to see the ball
Speaker 1: on the ground more, but you don't see it. Like
Speaker 1: I think Carnousti a couple of years ago that was
Speaker 1: really lynxy. Remember when those fairways were just browned out
Speaker 1: and that that was Yeah, that was a really I mean,
Speaker 1: that was maybe one of my favorite opens that I've
Speaker 1: ever seen. You know, it goes down with the truon
Speaker 1: one with with Stenson and Phil but the you know
Speaker 1: this week with the rain early, it really makes me
Speaker 1: wonder about like how firms are going to get I
Speaker 1: see it's supposed to be sunny and windy, but you
Speaker 1: might be right, And I think I think that low
Speaker 1: spin ball is just you know, the way the wind
Speaker 1: impacts it. It's just not the same as as what
Speaker 1: it used to be. Like I I distinctly remember just
Speaker 1: growing up and playing like, you know, all of a
Speaker 1: sudden like wind just wasn't as big of a deal,
Speaker 1: you know, as the equipment kept getting better, and I
Speaker 1: think that had you know, I've heard you on Live
Speaker 1: from this week talk about like there might not be
Speaker 1: true Links players anymore. I think there might be some
Speaker 1: players that skews better for like I think we saw
Speaker 1: a Kiwa with with Phil. Phil played different shots.
Speaker 2: And yeah, you could see that.
Speaker 1: His experience really shown to shine through. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: unless it's you get the Carnoustie lead up, I don't
Speaker 1: know if we'll see those types of shots.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Rom and Steith have got good scoring records, and
Speaker 2: Ram's got great hands. He doesn't really play links full shots,
Speaker 2: but he's pretty good around the green fashioning things. And
Speaker 2: of course Jordan's got great imagination skill. So I think
Speaker 2: around the short around the greens, there's still Lynxy kind
Speaker 2: of shots we'll see. But it used to be a
Speaker 2: lot of fun to go to the Open. And I
Speaker 2: remember walking in with Travino at ninety two. He said
Speaker 2: that was gonna be his last Open, and it wasn't.
Speaker 2: He played in two thousand as well, but you know,
Speaker 2: and he was kind of he was out of it,
Speaker 2: but he was putting on a little bit of a clinic.
Speaker 2: Well he was talking to herm and he goes, now,
Speaker 2: why this shot, I'm gonna do this with that, you know,
Speaker 2: and it was just that's I don't know. That to
Speaker 2: me has always been the most fun is to is
Speaker 2: to see somebody with just incredible skill do things that
Speaker 2: you marvel at just aesthetically and and so that's I'm
Speaker 2: not saying it's gone, but and for young people they
Speaker 2: don't know anything different, it's it's okay, but if you
Speaker 2: saw that, you kind of miss it.
Speaker 1: I think the most fun shots are the non stock shots,
Speaker 1: right like your non like the non driving range shot
Speaker 1: that you'd see a guy hit at driving range. And
Speaker 1: I think you know you saw some of them, like
Speaker 1: you know it's that low eight iron runner from fifty
Speaker 1: yards instead of the lot just this straight to the lobleage,
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, parlaying off yours. One of my five
Speaker 1: is uh is the searching the group that's kind of
Speaker 1: searching for for Link's success. We haven't you know, big
Speaker 1: day players, Bryson JT. You know, obviously, players that we
Speaker 1: expect that are going to win more than one major,
Speaker 1: that you know, for Bryce's two three miss cuts, j
Speaker 1: T h two or four miss cuts. His best finish
Speaker 1: was actually the most recent one, T eleven at UH
Speaker 1: at an Open. To me, JT seems much more like
Speaker 1: a player that might thrive on the links. You know,
Speaker 1: with all the different shots that he's he's capable hitting,
Speaker 1: particularly around the green. I think he's one of the
Speaker 1: most fun players to watch hit shots around the green.
Speaker 1: But I think, uh, you know, in Colin Morcaua, we've
Speaker 1: never even seen him play on the link a links
Speaker 1: of course, like that's he's top five player in the world,
Speaker 1: he hasn't played a played an Open championship. It's so
Speaker 1: rarity these days, so that that'd be one of my
Speaker 1: five one of my things. Do you think one of
Speaker 1: those guys is going to break out?
Speaker 2: Well? You know, I think of when I think of
Speaker 2: of Colin Marcou, I think of Molinari when he was
Speaker 2: playing well, very similar, just great control, you know, moderately long. Uh,
Speaker 2: Francesco had gotten a little longer that that helped him.
Speaker 2: Instead of hitting five arms, maybe he's hitting seven or
Speaker 2: eight irons occasionally and that made a difference to his scoring.
Speaker 2: Colin is just so impressive Tita Green. It's not overpowering,
Speaker 2: but it's again it's Faldol like kind of precise, and
Speaker 2: the putter hurts him. I think the putter generally hurts
Speaker 2: less at the Open Championship. The Greens usually aren't quite
Speaker 2: as fast. They may have undulation, but it's more kind
Speaker 2: of manageable. You're not always you know, making six foot comebackers.
Speaker 2: So you know, I like him. I like his attitude.
Speaker 2: I like his approach. Again, you know when somebody is
Speaker 2: not like at a young age, when they're not like
Speaker 2: a really you know, genius putter and and they're buying
Speaker 2: to be the best player in the world, I do
Speaker 2: I kind of worry that, well, he's just not going
Speaker 2: to ever make enough putts, and so that to me
Speaker 2: is the question. I know, he's gone to the claw,
Speaker 2: and you know, some people say it's the cautionary tale.
Speaker 2: I think, no, the Claus helped a lot of players,
Speaker 2: and you can be a great play with the claws,
Speaker 2: so not counting them out. But it just seems like
Speaker 2: that's almost innate. The great putters are almost innate. Rom
Speaker 2: happens to be a pretty darn good putter. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, obviously we saw that a tory the way
Speaker 2: he finished. But I think that's what separates him among
Speaker 2: the power players, and it's for j T. I mean,
Speaker 2: JT is also not a great putter. He's okay, but
Speaker 2: statistically not good. He's in the hundreds stroke skined putting,
Speaker 2: So you know, another great ball striker. I do. Sometimes
Speaker 2: he goes after it so hard, which you know, all
Speaker 2: the all the great little guys did. But being up
Speaker 2: on his toes like that, I know he launches and
Speaker 2: uses you know, all that force and the ground the
Speaker 2: ground forces and all that. I don't know that it's
Speaker 2: the most reliable way to really be a consistently straight driver.
Speaker 2: And that's nitpicking. I mean, I agree with all you're
Speaker 2: saying about all the shots he's got, especially with the
Speaker 2: irons and the wedges. Temperaments an issue probably on the links.
Speaker 2: If you don't have patients, it's gonna probably get you.
Speaker 2: So maybe it's churity with him too. And you know
Speaker 2: he's gone through a tough year here. I'm sure he's
Speaker 2: gonna come out of it, you know, even more mature,
Speaker 2: just out of adversity. So I just think it's early
Speaker 2: on those guys. I think searching is a good word.
Speaker 2: Who's going to emerge, But you know, if you're gonna
Speaker 2: win majors, the putter just has to be it has
Speaker 2: to be special.
Speaker 1: I think, well, I mean, look at look at the
Speaker 1: guys that come close a lot but not won a lot.
Speaker 1: And it's like you've got you know, Sergio Garcia, Adam Scott,
Speaker 1: We've got decades of information of this. At example, you've
Speaker 1: got Lee Westwood. To a lesser extent, Louis hu says,
Speaker 1: and I know he's at the top of the tour
Speaker 1: and putting this year, but this when the chips kind
Speaker 1: of come down, you know, on Sunday, I Louis doesn't
Speaker 1: always make the make the putts that other guys make
Speaker 1: that end up winning, you know. And I think I
Speaker 1: think that's like the thing is like we the putt.
Speaker 1: You know, everybody beats to death putt for show or
Speaker 1: putt for dough. Drive for show is dead. But once
Speaker 1: you get to the very top levels, yeah, you're still
Speaker 1: putting for the dough. And we saw it like rom
Speaker 1: the putter one of the tournament of the last two holes.
Speaker 1: Now people with data will come back and say so
Speaker 1: and so on, But like that's what makes those little
Speaker 1: incremental differences in majors.
Speaker 2: He said it beautifully. I couldn't agree with you more.
Speaker 2: I do think that the farther you go in the game,
Speaker 2: if you want to win, the putter is the most
Speaker 2: important club. It will not keep you on tour alone.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot more good ball strikers who
Speaker 2: are keeping their card who can't putt, then there are
Speaker 2: great putters who can't hit it. It's just the demand
Speaker 2: on ball striking is very high on the tour. You know,
Speaker 2: you got to have club hits speed. Most most of
Speaker 2: the journeymen don't have quite as much, so they'd have
Speaker 2: to be more precise, and if their crooked at all,
Speaker 2: they get run off the tour. But you know, then
Speaker 2: again to really to win, and you see these stats
Speaker 2: every week, you know, you know inside of inside ten feet,
Speaker 2: I mean usually there's generally about sixty six putts or
Speaker 2: something sixty two putts a week, and there have been
Speaker 2: weeks a guy has not missed at all from inside
Speaker 2: ten feet. It's it's incredible how they hold out when
Speaker 2: they're winning. I mean, Jak Post and those kind of guys,
Speaker 2: they have these putting weeks that are incredible and that's
Speaker 2: what that's what gets them over the line.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's what's your next next thing?
Speaker 2: Well, let's see I have you know, has Bryson reached
Speaker 2: a limit of diminishing returns with his approach to the
Speaker 2: point that you know, he's you know, maybe can just
Speaker 2: live with where he's driving it and start rounding out
Speaker 2: his game in other ways. I think that's what's gonna
Speaker 2: I know he wants to be the best in the world.
Speaker 2: I know he's got a great formula and and it
Speaker 2: was validated at wing Foot. You know, just hit as
Speaker 2: far as you can and so many other good things
Speaker 2: will follow. But I think when you have to hit
Speaker 2: those other shots after driving it well and you're showing
Speaker 2: a real lack of of you know, tour caliber ability
Speaker 2: with Wedge in particular, I just sort of feel like, Okay,
Speaker 2: it's time. It's time to change your your focus on
Speaker 2: what you want to improve most now. The incremental change
Speaker 2: distance increases will not make a bigger difference than a
Speaker 2: dramatic increase right now in your wedges, is how I
Speaker 2: see it. So I want to And he even said
Speaker 2: this week got to hit fairways because I don't think
Speaker 2: bomb and gage is going to work this week. It's
Speaker 2: too much rough, especially ten or fifteen yards off the
Speaker 2: fairway where he sometimes you know, can play from with
Speaker 2: a wedge or sandwich. So I guess my question is,
Speaker 2: you know, what are we going to see from Bryson
Speaker 2: in terms of the development of his game.
Speaker 1: Also with Bryson, like when there's more, more and more
Speaker 1: external factors, I think it hurts his approach where you know,
Speaker 1: like he likes to have the answers to everything. But
Speaker 1: when the wind's gusting or the current course is really
Speaker 1: firm or it's quirky, which is one of the things
Speaker 1: here where you're going to see a lot of random bounces.
Speaker 1: That's that's where things start to go haywire. When a
Speaker 1: ball lands in the you know, fifteen yards inside the
Speaker 1: fairway line and kicks out into the rough, that's something
Speaker 1: that is going to agitate him because that's not the
Speaker 1: way it should have happened. You know, that's you know,
Speaker 1: in a simulation that doesn't that's not what's supposed to happen.
Speaker 1: And I think that's another thing with that's a huge
Speaker 1: hurdle for him in the open is just dealing with
Speaker 1: all of the other things that can happen out there.
Speaker 2: That's well said, and I agree. I mean, at some point,
Speaker 2: golf is just hitting the next shot. You do what
Speaker 2: you can with the You can't control everything, and you
Speaker 2: have to live with imperfection and you move on. And
Speaker 2: I sort of think of Bryson right now. He's like
Speaker 2: he's getting his PhD. You know, he's grinding in this little,
Speaker 2: you know, student apartment somewhere and you know, not get
Speaker 2: enough sleep, and he's just obsessing and he's lost in
Speaker 2: deep tis and at some point he's going to get
Speaker 2: his degree and he's just going to go out in
Speaker 2: the workforce and clean up. And I just wanted to
Speaker 2: get to that point where he just feels like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I've studied everything. Doesn't mean you have to be mindless
Speaker 2: about it. He'll always be analytical, but go make your priority.
Speaker 2: Go play golf. Because he was a great player. I
Speaker 2: mean he won the US Amateur because he can play golf,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean he knows how to score, and
Speaker 2: just don't lose that gift. I think he's just very
Speaker 2: obsessive about this because he feels like this is a
Speaker 2: new frontier and I'm the pioneer. And I want to
Speaker 2: go as deep as I can go, but I think
Speaker 2: at some point he'llp he reflects and goes it's getting counterproductive.
Speaker 2: Now I'm not against it. I think what he's done
Speaker 2: is change the game and move the bar forward as
Speaker 2: far as what other players are going to be doing.
Speaker 2: But he could overdo it. As a pioneer, I'd like
Speaker 2: to see him just start thinking in terms of what
Speaker 2: is going to get me the lowest score and not
Speaker 2: what's going to change the game for others.
Speaker 1: I'm going to combine to in the effort of time.
Speaker 1: Here I be No, it's all right, that's good. All
Speaker 1: that discussion, so it's good. I'm going to put together
Speaker 1: Royal State, George's and the wide array of players, the
Speaker 1: almost democratic nature of Open championships, where you know, you
Speaker 1: really feel like almost anybody in the field can win.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, this week we've got a
Speaker 1: golf course that players hate, which immediately kind of like
Speaker 1: perks my interest. It's it's just something like if somebody
Speaker 1: if the people that like right out in front of you,
Speaker 1: you know, what you see is what you get. Don't
Speaker 1: like it? Typically that that that says there's some sort
Speaker 1: of quality that makes this course different than every other course,
Speaker 1: which you know, if you look at golf architecture as
Speaker 1: an art, you want things that evoke different reactions and
Speaker 1: this is a golf course that has evoked a lot
Speaker 1: of reactions from players over the over time. I think
Speaker 1: like the bounces is really what gets people. You know,
Speaker 1: the the undulating fairways, I think you know from I
Speaker 1: haven't I haven't been to the course, but everything I've
Speaker 1: been watching, looking at the photos, it's an an incredible property.
Speaker 1: You know, you've got You've got such variety in terms
Speaker 1: of you've got the big dunes that you'd see at
Speaker 1: a port Rush, You've got the really micro movement of
Speaker 1: the great links of in Scotland like the old course,
Speaker 1: where you just get this random bounces and I think,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that this does is
Speaker 1: that it really opens up the field that it. You know,
Speaker 1: obviously the firm conditions, the elements add to this, but
Speaker 1: you know, it's really more about who's got the biggest,
Speaker 1: most varied skill set. I feel like when we get
Speaker 1: in these opens at these golf courses and not as
Speaker 1: much about hey, you just need you need to have
Speaker 1: power in order to have a chance this week and
Speaker 1: we see this with you know, Tom Watson competing, you know,
Speaker 1: almost winning at age sixty. We you know Molinari, Francisco
Speaker 1: Molinari winning, but also in the Hunt that year it
Speaker 1: was Kevin Kissner, a guy that talks about you know,
Speaker 1: I only play in those terms because they have a
Speaker 1: lot of money. I have no chance of winning at
Speaker 1: some of these places. So I think that's something I
Speaker 1: think about a lot every time the Open comes around,
Speaker 1: is how much different would the world rankings look if
Speaker 1: there was a eight eight week links swing through this
Speaker 1: time of year, Like, would we see a significantly different
Speaker 1: top twenty five in the world.
Speaker 2: I think in the old links with old equipment. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I say the old links, they're all old, but I
Speaker 2: mean with old equipment on the bone dry setups that
Speaker 2: we used to see a lot more of, not saying
Speaker 2: they're watering them, just whatever. For whatever reason, we don't
Speaker 2: see them that often. I think there would be quite
Speaker 2: a change. You know, I agree with you in terms
Speaker 2: of the well routed in this who's got the best
Speaker 2: skill set that always helps on major setups, and maybe
Speaker 2: more at the Open than anywhere else. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: I do think power. It's seductive even at the Open
Speaker 2: now because especially when there's there's a lot of space,
Speaker 2: even though there might be a lot of high grass,
Speaker 2: players feel like they can take on high grass a
Speaker 2: little more readily than they used to be able to.
Speaker 2: I think with Bryson as the example. So I also think,
Speaker 2: because we talked earlier about you know, maybe there's not
Speaker 2: a link style anymore, it kind of comes down to
Speaker 2: who's playing well. As simplistic as that sounds, and I mean,
Speaker 2: all these guys have a lot of skills, and I
Speaker 2: mean we saw Luke Glover last week. You know, he
Speaker 2: put it together from I would say, not out of nowhere.
Speaker 2: He's been. He's been building towards this, but you wouldn't
Speaker 2: necessarily have thought of him as a winner obviously going
Speaker 2: into the week. So I just think there's more surprises
Speaker 2: now in pro golf because there is more of a
Speaker 2: uniform game and they're all capable when they're hot of
Speaker 2: having great ball striking weeks and great putting weeks and
Speaker 2: every week. Maybe and maybe you know, a great statistician
Speaker 2: could with this together. I'm gonna guess maybe ten guys
Speaker 2: are ten ten percent of the field is playing an
Speaker 2: a game, and even though they may not be in
Speaker 2: the top one hundred in the world, that's a dangerous player.
Speaker 2: And I think that's why everything feels more open now.
Speaker 2: Saint George's in particular may feel open because to your point,
Speaker 2: I think it is great architecture. It doesn't seem like
Speaker 2: it favors anybody. You know, there's not a pattern to
Speaker 2: the holes necessarily, there's not you know, just this kind
Speaker 2: of shape that that or you know, high ball, low
Speaker 2: ball whatever. It just seems like it's it's a fair test. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's a little bit of capriciousness with the bun with
Speaker 2: the bounces.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: And that's part of the game too, is dealing with
Speaker 2: you know, rubble the green. So I think temperaments big
Speaker 2: and who wins these things at the open and that
Speaker 2: tends to beat toward a mature player. But so I
Speaker 2: look at I look at Shockley right now is a
Speaker 2: kind of do and he's young, but he's mature, and
Speaker 2: he has that skill set you were talking about, and
Speaker 2: he's had, you know, finished second a Carnoustie. He's a guy.
Speaker 2: I just feel like, I don't know, saying George's could
Speaker 2: be a good place for him because he can handle
Speaker 2: what it offers.
Speaker 1: The attitude is so good too. I think, just like
Speaker 1: you know, in the recent years of watching him in interviews,
Speaker 1: is just how he handles things like remember the baby crying?
Speaker 1: Was that is that Carnousti where you know, like so
Speaker 1: many players would have had such a negative outward reaction,
Speaker 1: his he kind of laughed it off. And and just
Speaker 1: like you don't hear him making excuses like you hear
Speaker 1: a lot of golfers who you know, naturally always it's
Speaker 1: never them kind of mentality. And I think that's that's
Speaker 1: something that suits him so well in these major championships,
Speaker 1: is that like he doesn't you know, he doesn't get
Speaker 1: hung up on maybe this was I got a bad
Speaker 1: bounce and this is why this happened. It's here, and
Speaker 1: then he moves on to the next shot.
Speaker 2: He's very intelligent, and he's also you know, he's got
Speaker 2: a great I think, like you said, philosophy of letting
Speaker 2: go of things you can't control. I think right now
Speaker 2: his mind is on what does it take mentally for
Speaker 2: me to see these things through at the end, because
Speaker 2: that is a challenge that has gotten into his head
Speaker 2: a little bit. He's given a couple away and he's
Speaker 2: trying to deal with that and and talk about it,
Speaker 2: which is you know, rare. I think that's that one
Speaker 2: area of can you close That's a tough thing for
Speaker 2: players to talk about. That's when they always say, you know,
Speaker 2: I just want to get there with a chance on
Speaker 2: Sunday because even the best of them know that there's
Speaker 2: just no way you can consistently, you know, get it done.
Speaker 2: There's there's too many variables, There's there's nerves. Some days
Speaker 2: you feel relaxed, some days you feel confident, some days
Speaker 2: you don't. I think Tiger skewed that perception because he
Speaker 2: was just so incredible on Sundays to this to this day.
Speaker 2: I think that's his greatest record, just his percentage of
Speaker 2: closing out fifty four whole leads. That made him special.
Speaker 1: What else you got?
Speaker 2: Oh man? Uh? You know Rory is always so intriguing.
Speaker 1: He's on mine too, So this is well within I.
Speaker 2: Guess, but you know, I give me your ideas too.
Speaker 2: But I think I wonder is his is his new ceiling?
Speaker 2: You know, this thirty year old, thirty year old, decade ahead.
Speaker 2: Is that ceiling lower than his old ceiling? Because I
Speaker 2: think there's a presumption that you know, hey, you know,
Speaker 2: you get better as you get more experienced, and h
Speaker 2: thirty is still the prime time. And I just wonder
Speaker 2: as a prodigy and as somebody who won four majors
Speaker 2: early and who is under so much scrutiny and who
Speaker 2: doesn't seem to have the same dynamic qualities in his
Speaker 2: game as he used to have him not saying he's
Speaker 2: short or anything like that, but it just, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: he would he would get on a on a run
Speaker 2: of not run, but just a full flight kind of
Speaker 2: moment where you know, he's one of these majors by
Speaker 2: eight strokes. Some of that was you know, hot putting,
Speaker 2: but in general he just was hitting shots all the
Speaker 2: guys didn't hit. So it's as good as good as
Speaker 2: it used to be. And will it keep getting good?
Speaker 2: Or have we seen the best of Rory?
Speaker 1: I guess yeah. The ties right into what I had
Speaker 1: written out. We did a deep dive on a lot
Speaker 1: of those the famous five or six whatever it is
Speaker 1: from the europe And I've remember stumbling across the quote
Speaker 1: from Manuel bia Seros who said Sevy played his best
Speaker 1: golf at age sixteen on the Beach and I never
Speaker 1: will forget that because it's so true. And you see
Speaker 1: it with junior golf, like you know, you see kids
Speaker 1: that are gang but go gangbusters in junior golf, and
Speaker 1: then they get to college golf and they're good, but
Speaker 1: they aren't great or the great college golfer that doesn't
Speaker 1: make it as a pro. And sometimes guys just play
Speaker 1: their best golf at different ages, right, you know, and
Speaker 1: that's just when they're at their best. And we might
Speaker 1: look back on Rory and say, you know, he was
Speaker 1: the best player he ever was when he was twenty four,
Speaker 1: you know, as and it's not nothing wrong with that,
Speaker 1: but like, you know, we're if he doesn't win this
Speaker 1: week or eight years without a major, and you know,
Speaker 1: the US Open was really the first close call in
Speaker 1: a while. Like there are a lot of high finishes,
Speaker 1: but they're kind of not they're high finishes without like
Speaker 1: substantive contention. And I think that's that's the thing that
Speaker 1: you know, he's such a great player, and he's you know,
Speaker 1: he's he's so likable because I feel like he's so
Speaker 1: relatable for everybody, you know, talking about the chicken sandwiches.
Speaker 1: It's just like you know, he just got like like
Speaker 1: I feel like almost everybody feels like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I would be friends with Rory, you know like that.
Speaker 1: I think that he's got that kind of quality and
Speaker 1: it's hard to like. But you know, he might not
Speaker 1: be his best golf might be years behind him. Right.
Speaker 2: Well, you make you know when you mentioned I had
Speaker 2: not heard that quote from Manuel bias Terilson. A very
Speaker 2: similar one that I've thrown around in the past was
Speaker 2: from Crench, who said I played my best, I was
Speaker 2: my I was the best I ever was when I
Speaker 2: was eighteen, and he goes, I didn't think, I just did,
Speaker 2: you know. And as soon as he started, and in
Speaker 2: those days there was a lot of fiddling. And when
Speaker 2: he got and Ben very much like Rory, very engaging. Uh.
Speaker 2: People loved him. The other players loved him. A lot
Speaker 2: of guys offered him advice. He tried a lot of
Speaker 2: different things. He got away from some of the Harvey
Speaker 2: Poenix stuff. Again not not carelessly, but just because you know,
Speaker 2: he has an active mind. He loves the game, and
Speaker 2: he was trying and he got he got confused, but
Speaker 2: you know, he came out of it. But he was
Speaker 2: really an amazing young player, and then when he got
Speaker 2: thyroid issues and lost some weight, he lost some of
Speaker 2: his powers. So that was that was a factor there.
Speaker 2: That's one reason also that that ninety five matters was
Speaker 2: a miracle, because you know, he was not the same
Speaker 2: kind of player anymore. But you know, golf is mysterious
Speaker 2: as and and you know there's nothing that says you
Speaker 2: you you hit some kind of level and then you
Speaker 2: keep it for a while. I mean, that could be
Speaker 2: very fleeting and Seve's Sevi's prime in a way was short.
Speaker 2: I mean, it was profound, and it seemed like he
Speaker 2: was out there forever, but it was just because he
Speaker 2: was so compelling. And you know, Rory's Scott. He just
Speaker 2: won this year. So I mean, I always feel unfair,
Speaker 2: like I'm being unfair of Rory writing these, you know,
Speaker 2: or talking these kind of golf obituaries because I don't
Speaker 2: believe that he's I just but I do wonder if
Speaker 2: he's if his arc, whereas Tigers continued to go upward,
Speaker 2: has flattened or has started to descend. And again, this
Speaker 2: is a human individual thing. We don't know all the reasons.
Speaker 2: You think that with all the knowledge out there, you
Speaker 2: could extend your prime now, either with technique or with training,
Speaker 2: or with attitude, psychological breakthroughs, who knows, or maybe it's just, hey,
Speaker 2: this is who you are and this is how it goes.
Speaker 2: And I know he's trying. I know he's a father,
Speaker 2: and maybe he doesn't have quite the same you know,
Speaker 2: total immersion and commitment to the game as he did,
Speaker 2: but gosh, I will doubt there's anything he loves more
Speaker 2: than to play well. So I think you make some
Speaker 2: great points about, you know, these patterns that maybe are unavoidable,
Speaker 2: that you sort of feel like with the greatest guys,
Speaker 2: they kind of will it to happen somehow, you know,
Speaker 2: Jack kind of somehow willed nineteen eighty to happen after
Speaker 2: looking like he was done in seventy nine. And how
Speaker 2: many things that Tiger will, you know, and and but
Speaker 2: you don't think of Rory as having that kind of
Speaker 2: just you know, monomoniacal will to the same extent. And
Speaker 2: maybe that's the difference. Maybe you've got to when you've
Speaker 2: been playing a long time and you've had a lot
Speaker 2: of success, you've got to just have an like a
Speaker 2: Michael Jordan, you know, you got to have a fire
Speaker 2: that just never goes out, and that's abnormal.
Speaker 1: I think. So the Harrington quote that's one of my
Speaker 1: favorite quotes, like that happened to about the experien Experience
Speaker 1: isn't at all to be like and you know, you
Speaker 1: just lose innocence. I think it was experience. When you
Speaker 1: gain experience, you lose innocence. I think that's like prime Brory, right,
Speaker 1: he almost had this like he took on shots and
Speaker 1: he was you know, by Buddy one time called him
Speaker 1: a swashbuckling talent like he was just like he had
Speaker 1: no fear. And for some players, like they as they age,
Speaker 1: they get they learn how to play more and they
Speaker 1: they they don't make as many stupid mistakes. The game
Speaker 1: cleans up, and for him, he might have just lost
Speaker 1: that youthful just like you know style.
Speaker 2: I always think with Tiger, Tiger could have been a swashbuckler,
Speaker 2: but he always played percentage golf. He always played careful golf,
Speaker 2: and he was always fearful of the mistake and he
Speaker 2: played around all that and that's how he you know,
Speaker 2: was so consistent and he never he never, very rarely
Speaker 2: just went all out and just you know, just say
Speaker 2: I'm gonna shoot at the pin every He was always
Speaker 2: shaping shots, He's always playing percentages. That was his personality.
Speaker 2: But I also think he was comfortable being fearful, you know.
Speaker 2: In other words, I'm not saying he was scared to play,
Speaker 2: but he feared the mistake. Rory wants to play this,
Speaker 2: as he says, fearless golf. I don't even know if
Speaker 2: that exists, you know, unless you're eighteen, you know, unless
Speaker 2: you're I mean, the more you play golf, the more
Speaker 2: you realize, you know, as even the guys who are
Speaker 2: the greatest in the world, the more things they know
Speaker 2: can go wrong if you're not careful. And Rory just
Speaker 2: doesn't seem to have that mentality of I don't want
Speaker 2: to play careful, you know. To him, I think when
Speaker 2: he plays careful, he feels inhibited and like he's not himself.
Speaker 2: He needs, he needs that feeling of freedom, which I
Speaker 2: just don't think is that common for tour players who
Speaker 2: know that, you know, one bad hole or or a
Speaker 2: couple of stupid bogies can cost you a tournament. Because
Speaker 2: that's generally what happens to Rory is he makes inevitably
Speaker 2: some kind of silly I say silly, but they seem like,
Speaker 2: you know, uh, soft mistakes, soft bogies.
Speaker 1: And like the three put on twelve at or eleven
Speaker 1: at at toy like this.
Speaker 2: So that might have been nerves because you know, suddenly
Speaker 2: he was thrust into it and I remember he really
Speaker 2: jerked that six footter. Of course, the first part was
Speaker 2: only twenty five feet, so he hit that. So I
Speaker 2: mean there was something going on there that maybe he
Speaker 2: just you know, suddenly was uncomfortable with the situation because
Speaker 2: he hadn't been there in a while. But you know,
Speaker 2: going all day about this, but I do feel that
Speaker 2: Rory is looking for an ideal state of mind that
Speaker 2: is very hard to capture for a person, you know,
Speaker 2: who's not a teenager anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I uh, I think so parlaying off that I
Speaker 1: got I got Brooks as one of mine. So he went,
Speaker 1: he went four for nine in majors and if he
Speaker 1: doesn't win this one, he's zero for nine, which we
Speaker 1: saw one of the best runs. And now like he's
Speaker 1: always in the mix, and you know, you just start
Speaker 1: to wonder, like this thing like when you are invincible,
Speaker 1: like Tiger was invincible, he never lost, he was always
Speaker 1: whenever he was in it, he'd win, right, and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you know, y Yang beats him
Speaker 1: and he doesn't win very much anymore. And I think,
Speaker 1: like with Brooks, you start to wonder when like these
Speaker 1: close calls starts to turn into scar tissue and you know,
Speaker 1: is he working through stuff? Because like that that Masters,
Speaker 1: the Tiger won, Brooks really had some good looks to
Speaker 1: win that, and he had what he went in the
Speaker 1: water on twelve. Yeah, he miss missmakable putts on seventeen
Speaker 1: and eighteen, and that could he could have been a
Speaker 1: real instead of a storybook finish, like a you know,
Speaker 1: a sad Tom Austin like finish where Tiger didn't win
Speaker 1: because you know Brooks Brooks, Yeah, you know these close
Speaker 1: calls Like are you worried at all with Brooks?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, you know, I think Brooks well physically, you know,
Speaker 2: you worry that he's got a bit of a kinetic
Speaker 2: chain going with these injuries, you know, whether it's a
Speaker 2: knee or the hip. You know that for that especially
Speaker 2: his style of play, which is a very you know,
Speaker 2: very muscular, forceful golf swing. It's not it's not one
Speaker 2: that's built on you know, timing and and kind of
Speaker 2: this fluid kind of swish through the ball. I mean,
Speaker 2: he's really bringing the big muscles into play. You know,
Speaker 2: he's got to be fit, I think, to perform at
Speaker 2: his best, more so than maybe somebody who doesn't use
Speaker 2: their body quite as quite as forcefully. But I also,
Speaker 2: you know, I think about that was an incredible run.
Speaker 2: When he won. You said four out of nine or
Speaker 2: four out of eight majors.
Speaker 1: I mean, well he didn't play in one. It was
Speaker 1: nine majors, but eight attempts.
Speaker 2: Eight attempts four. I mean that's you know, that's Tiger
Speaker 2: like almost from two thousand. So that that gave him
Speaker 2: an aura and he was on an amazing run. I
Speaker 2: think his confidence was, you know, unrealistic. He might have
Speaker 2: felt like, this is this is this is always gonna happen,
Speaker 2: you know, because I am this guy, and I think
Speaker 2: golf just kind of imposed itself on the difficulty of
Speaker 2: it and and the inability to just stay in that
Speaker 2: kind of zone for a long long time. Obviously the
Speaker 2: zone we talk about somebody that only last two or
Speaker 2: three holes. His zone was lasting, you know, eight tournaments.
Speaker 2: And so once it goes then you start realizing, oh oh,
Speaker 2: this is not this is not a given that I'm
Speaker 2: always going to feel this in command, because you know
Speaker 2: Kiowa at the Masters Kia in particular, there were some
Speaker 2: nervous misses there, you know, short Putts. Now, I know
Speaker 2: he hasn't been you know, in it as much anyone
Speaker 2: in Phoenix. And I'm not saying Brooks can't hal pressure.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying he's fallible and and that realization I'm
Speaker 2: sure has occurred to him that this doesn't quite feel
Speaker 2: the same as it used to, and it's not it's
Speaker 2: not as easy. So that's why I'm not worried about him.
Speaker 1: I just don't.
Speaker 2: I don't look at him with all time great kind
Speaker 2: of talent or all time great kind of love for
Speaker 2: the game either. Yeah, I mean he talks about he
Speaker 2: talks about the game like it just you know, I
Speaker 2: don't like it this much. At tour events whatever.
Speaker 1: He took a nap at the three outfit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, I don't think he's really built
Speaker 2: for longevity. I don't think it's an accident that he
Speaker 2: was mentioned pretty prominently as a Premier Golf League guy
Speaker 2: or Super Super Golf League guy. Uh So I think
Speaker 2: that argues against his being you know this, you know,
Speaker 2: stalwart for the next ten years. I think he's had
Speaker 2: his his prime moment and maybe he recaptures it, maybe
Speaker 2: he doesn't, but it'll go down as kind of like
Speaker 2: a Ralph gouldal kind of thing. It's like, you know,
Speaker 2: this super nova flew across the sky and and and
Speaker 2: that was the best we saw of him.
Speaker 1: The guy, the guy that started the Open Doctor era.
Speaker 1: Ralph started all the modernization of the great classic courses.
Speaker 2: So and so tell me how that happened.
Speaker 1: Oakland Hills, that's where he broke the broke the scoring
Speaker 1: record of the US Open.
Speaker 2: Okay, so that's that was the motivation for members saying
Speaker 2: we're not having this anymore. And they brought Robert Trent Jones.
Speaker 1: Robert Trent Jones and the USJA was and then fifty
Speaker 1: one and basically on from there, all the courses got redone.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's a great one. I know I would learn
Speaker 2: a lot from you today, and I have thank you.
Speaker 1: What what what else you got on the list? I'm
Speaker 1: out because I you.
Speaker 2: Know, I'm out too. Really, Okay, we'll talk about rom
Speaker 2: just very quickly. On Rock. I mean I think Rom's
Speaker 2: got so many great tools, but I want to see
Speaker 2: if his attitudes were real, you know, and I'm not
Speaker 2: you know, I know it's a little simplistic and it
Speaker 2: really annoys him to keep hearing oh, you're a hothead,
Speaker 2: and he probably buried a lot of that criticism at Tory.
Speaker 2: I will say I used to be in his corner
Speaker 2: big time, and I've always been. I mean, I heard
Speaker 2: today and I'm just gonna be like, not even a
Speaker 2: humble brag, but that I don't Justin Leonard was talking
Speaker 2: about Thurick saying, you know, in ten years, of all
Speaker 2: these young players, Rom will have the most majors. And
Speaker 2: I was asked, you know, a year ago, who's the
Speaker 2: best of And I said, I think in ten years
Speaker 2: I'd like to have I would take John Rahm's record
Speaker 2: over everybody else's. Now that may pan out or may not,
Speaker 2: but there's real quality there, is what I'm saying. When
Speaker 2: when Justin Leonard, who's you know, who knows good golf
Speaker 2: and good players, says that, or excuse me, when Jim
Speaker 2: Purick says that, you know, you feel like you're in
Speaker 2: good company.
Speaker 1: I think when I talked about the opposite player of Rory,
Speaker 1: like where you know, the more you play, the better
Speaker 1: you get. The more experience you get, the better you get.
Speaker 1: I think that a lot like embodies John Rahm, like
Speaker 1: he's so overwhelmingly talented and it's just all the in
Speaker 1: the moment experience is just in being there more and
Speaker 1: more and not having those over like the more you're there,
Speaker 1: the less you react, right, hopefully, hopefully, And I think
Speaker 1: that's the guy that like embodies that kind of like
Speaker 1: he's just going to keep getting better. I remember when
Speaker 1: he came out after he had that great start, I
Speaker 1: put up a poll on Twitter, would you would you
Speaker 1: take career earnings from this point forward of John ram
Speaker 1: or Jordan's Speith And everybody's like, you're crazy speed, like
Speaker 1: and I W yeah. I mean I think rom Is
Speaker 1: is just I've you know, he's just so talented, Like
Speaker 1: every aspect of the game he's so great at. Like
Speaker 1: that's the thing. There's no and you saw it right
Speaker 1: from the start, right when he got on tour. There's
Speaker 1: no discernible weaknesses in his game, and that that leads
Speaker 1: to great consistency, just like you know Tiger and I
Speaker 1: don't want to put him in the tiger bucket, I'd
Speaker 1: rather compare. I think he's more like Ernie El's, like,
Speaker 1: you know where he's good at everything, and Ernie obviously
Speaker 1: is putting faded later in his career. Yeah, he was
Speaker 1: just and because of that, he was just a top ten,
Speaker 1: top five machine. And I think that's what we're gonna
Speaker 1: see from John Ram is just you know, remarkable consistency
Speaker 1: in that same bucket. More cow is in that same
Speaker 1: bucket with the with just how good he is at
Speaker 1: striking the golf ball. But Rom has that putter and
Speaker 1: when we saw that toy, like when made those putts
Speaker 1: down the stretch that were unthinkable to make those back
Speaker 1: to back, Well, if.
Speaker 2: You're gonna make history, you've got to win majors, and
Speaker 2: to make majors. To win majors, you've got to put
Speaker 2: on Sundays.
Speaker 1: Back to back major is a big deal.
Speaker 2: Yeah. There, I think what I think there was eight guys.
Speaker 2: I was looking back to back US Open Open Championship.
Speaker 2: By the way, I'm a British Open guy and I
Speaker 2: know you can't say that, but but I was gonna
Speaker 2: say about Rom too that you know, to me, he
Speaker 2: can win majors if he keeps his if he keeps
Speaker 2: his head, and you make a good point that he's learned.
Speaker 2: He was stubborn about it before. He would say, you know,
Speaker 2: I played better this way. I burn hot and it
Speaker 2: makes me, you know, more determined, et cetera. It's not true.
Speaker 2: It may be true that, yeah, you can burn hot,
Speaker 2: but if you show it and and you lose your
Speaker 2: your your calm. I don't know. The history golf does
Speaker 2: not show those guys being winners, so, especially at a
Speaker 2: major with the pressure's highest, the self control factor is
Speaker 2: the one I'm looking at, and I think, you know,
Speaker 2: you make a great point that he ain't He ain't dumb.
Speaker 2: He saw how it worked at Toy, so keep it going.
Speaker 1: I just well, he had that moment at Tory. Do
Speaker 1: you remember in Saturday's round when he hit the flag
Speaker 1: on fourteen.
Speaker 2: I can't remember now. I may have missed it because
Speaker 2: I might have been out walking around too much. But
Speaker 2: tell me what happened.
Speaker 1: He got in trouble and he had to chip out,
Speaker 1: and then his third shot hit the flag. It would
Speaker 1: have been tight, It would have been feet away. You know,
Speaker 1: kicking probably hits the flag ends up twenty five feet
Speaker 1: away he makes double. I think he made double oh wow,
Speaker 1: or he maybe he made.
Speaker 2: Boguey remember reading about it now, Yes.
Speaker 1: And he and it looked like it just looked like
Speaker 1: the quintessential like you've seen the you've seen the moment
Speaker 1: happen with him so many times for everything just blows
Speaker 1: up and it didn't. And that was like to me,
Speaker 1: like the turning point of that tournament was that he
Speaker 1: didn't give in there and he you know, he finished
Speaker 1: well that round out that kept him in it really
Speaker 1: and uh and that was like, but I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's it's so hard golf. If this is this might
Speaker 1: not be the place for him, because this is the
Speaker 1: place that's got those things that happened that you can't explain,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Just all he's got to do is, you know, stay Nicholas,
Speaker 2: like stay you know in terms of and that's hard
Speaker 2: to do, but you know, if you're gonna be great,
Speaker 2: make make the mental approach, be as good at the
Speaker 2: mental approach as you are at everything physical. And I
Speaker 2: think he can do it. You know, there was a
Speaker 2: moment a Tory two in the first round he missed
Speaker 2: like a two and a half footer on twelve and
Speaker 2: he and he just walked picked up the ball and
Speaker 2: he walked away from it. And you know, I sound
Speaker 2: like a parent who's scolding his hot headed little, you know,
Speaker 2: thirteen year old prodigy kid, because every good player at
Speaker 2: that age has a temper. But John's too old to
Speaker 2: have that temper anymore. That's my that's my little get
Speaker 2: off my lawn, old man assessment.
Speaker 1: So you're gonna be on live from all week on
Speaker 1: the Golf Channel. People can find you there, right, anything
Speaker 1: else you got cooking this week?
Speaker 2: No, it's a it's a it's a week of complete
Speaker 2: dedicated TV scheduling, which it's fun. It is. It's there's
Speaker 2: a lot you'd be great in this environment. You know,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of golf that gets talked. You learn
Speaker 2: a lot of golf from, especially the ex players, you know,
Speaker 2: Aeron Oblehozer or Justin We're in Stanford this week unfortunately
Speaker 2: because yeah, because of COVID. But you know, that's what
Speaker 2: I've enjoyed the most about being a golf channel is
Speaker 2: it's just how kind of endless the golf discussions can
Speaker 2: be on off air. Hopefully some of that some of
Speaker 2: the best ones. Sometimes you feel like are off air,
Speaker 2: but a lot of it, an amazing amount of it
Speaker 2: gets carried over on air too, especially with with Brandle
Speaker 2: and rich and and and justin.
Speaker 1: You guys are going to be dealing with the awful hours,
Speaker 1: you know, the early mornings.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's once it's like a casino. You know,
Speaker 2: you don't know what You come in here and you
Speaker 2: don't know you don't you don't see the sun you
Speaker 2: walk out there, you don't know time it was, So
Speaker 2: it doesn't once just get started, it almost doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: And and and everybody's excited about the Open. Yeah, there's
Speaker 2: just something visually, even though we're not there, something visually
Speaker 2: about seeing a great old links on the you know,
Speaker 2: on the on the place of the game was was
Speaker 2: was invented. It inspires people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's probably my favorite major. I think, I think,
Speaker 1: I think I wrote something a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: It's my favorite major.
Speaker 2: But you haven't been over there yet, no, Yeah, well
Speaker 2: that's it'll be even better for you when you go
Speaker 2: and then play over there too. Yeah, that does bring
Speaker 2: it alive that that was always the most fun part
Speaker 2: about going to the Open in the older days before
Speaker 2: was you know, the days were so long, and you
Speaker 2: know it sports Ocrat. We wrote one story a week
Speaker 2: for a while there, and you know there was a
Speaker 2: lot of a lot of time to play golf in
Speaker 2: the late afternoon at the surrounding courses. That was. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was really.
Speaker 1: Nice that Brandon Stone a couple of years ago. I'll
Speaker 1: never forget that when he was out playing. Uh was
Speaker 1: it was he playing the.
Speaker 2: North Barrack mark Beck is everybody's favorite with the Hickory's.
Speaker 1: Or was he it was it was at Carnoussie. Maybe
Speaker 1: he was playing the old course.
Speaker 2: With Samar I bet he's playing Pamir at CARNOUSTI uh huh,
Speaker 2: because they had the Hickory They had the Hickory Championship there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he won the Hickory's from uh from the Scottish
Speaker 1: I think. And then he was playing after his round.
Speaker 1: So he finished his round in the open and they
Speaker 1: somebody had saw him out playing at one of the
Speaker 1: other courses. You can't remember where it was that after
Speaker 1: he played his round and I think he was he's
Speaker 1: in the mix. He'd shot sixty nine ers sixty eight
Speaker 1: that day. It was just like the the golf spirit
Speaker 1: is is the thing I really need to experience out there.
Speaker 2: Well, good luck man, I mean you're you're well positioned
Speaker 2: because those guys all know you now, they'll be more
Speaker 2: than happy to host you.
Speaker 1: Last two years have been kind of tough for the
Speaker 1: for getting over there, so I.
Speaker 2: Know, but everybody's pen up now, so they'll they'll they'll
Speaker 2: want you to see everything. It'll be great.
Speaker 1: Hivey, thank you so much for coming out. Really looking
Speaker 1: forward to your coverage this week, and is somebody who's
Speaker 1: grown up reading your articles and everything you've brought to
Speaker 1: the game. Big thanks for you growing by love of golf.
Speaker 2: Well that's very nice you and you know, thank you
Speaker 2: for what you're doing with these podcasts because there's a
Speaker 2: there's a deep dive into that old spirit that you
Speaker 2: talked about, and it's not as easy to find anymore
Speaker 2: with the world moving so fast, and it's a gift
Speaker 2: of the game what you're doing. So thank you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to another episode of the Frida
Speaker 1: Egg Podcast. This episode was edited by Meg Atkins. As
Speaker 1: I mentioned at the top, it's a major championship that
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Speaker 1: job with these. He'll be up at all odd hours
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