WEBVTT - Dave Stewart 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.160 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:16.159 My guest today is a true legend, Dave Stewart. You 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:18.400 know him as Half the Rhythmics, you know him as 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:21.600 a songwriter, you know him as a producer. Day great 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:24.560 to have you here, Thanks very much. I'm glad we're 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:28.240 here and inside and not outside. It's pouring with rain 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:31.200 right now, right. You know, it's funny because when I 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:33.880 used to hear that song, it never rains in southern California. 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:36.320 I said, well, you know what, really, you know, I 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:38.360 thought it was like a joke, but it really never rains. 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:40.800 But when it rains, it does pour. It's funny watching 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:45.000 everybody panic here in Los Angeles when it rains, because 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:48.400 where I'm from it's so sort of rainy and cold. 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:52.040 But the rain is different. See, the incomes sideways with 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:54.680 a wind with it. Right. So, when I was little 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:57.560 walking to school and you have to wear short pants, 0:00:57.640 --> 0:00:59.800 you know, when I got to school, one side of 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:01.920 my I was always covered in little dots where the 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:05.160 rain was like, Okay, where exactly did you grow up? 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.080 I grew up in northeast of England, in a place 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:12.440 called Sunderland, which is was looked at as the poor 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:18.440 cousin to Newcastle, you know, because for instance, Newcastle was 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:21.360 you know, a bit of a bigger and named a city, 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:23.520 and Sundland was a town when I was growing up, 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:28.480 and you know, we got all so second sort of 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:31.680 handoff things. So if you went to the vegetable shop, 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:34.880 the vegetables were all the sort of monkey vegetables are 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:37.200 a bit bruised because the rest went to London, you know, 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:41.160 everything was And when I was growing up, of course, 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:46.080 it was a period when they closed the railways and 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:50.200 they closed the coal mines so and shipbuilding, which was 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:53.680 the biggest thing in the town. They closed the shipyards. 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:56.280 So I don't know if you've seen a thing called 0:01:56.280 --> 0:02:01.480 Billy Elliott. So that's a little bit so about twelve 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:04.080 miles from where I was. But you know, it's all 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:09.840 about the minor's strikes and that's all a similar sort 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.800 of scenario or where you've got, I think in my 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:16.760 town of something like unemployment with men who were used 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:20.440 to working in the shipyards, in the coal mines or 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:23.360 whatever and at least bringing home something for their family 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:29.040 and now they've got all usunemployment and strange tactics you know, 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.200 to calm people down. So a brewery came out with 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:35.040 a beer that's a penny a pints kind of thing, 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:39.079 and of course then everybody gets so completely addicted to drinking, 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:43.560 and then fights and brawls start up. And so when 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:49.960 I was sort of about thirteen or fourteen, um, it 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.560 was a weird sort of the duality of things happening, 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:57.000 because you could get the enemy or the melody maker 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:01.360 from one little newsagent shot up and you're kind of 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:07.440 reading about some kind of hippie psychedelic movement. Meanwhile Europe 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:09.799 in the northeast of England, where people are rolling around 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:16.680 on the ground fighting, you know, just generally miserable and 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:19.920 like no future. A bit like later on that happened, 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.400 you know, when the sex Pistons came out with pretty 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:24.880 Vacant and all that stuff. But it was already happening, 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:27.520 you know. Okay, you know a lot of my listeners 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:30.000 are American. Not that we don't reach the world. We're 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:33.600 ignorant in America. We don't know England. How far is 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:39.880 Sunderland from London? Were roughly really far and how it's 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:41.960 near the border of Scotland. That was my question. How 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:46.640 far from Scotland about sixty five miles very close. So 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:50.200 you would, you know, for those of us who are unfamiliar, 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:55.080 would you go to Scotland. Oh, yeah, Scotland's a very 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:59.400 beautiful place, and so is the northeast of England, you know, Northumbria. 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:01.920 American might have seen it if they watched the History 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:06.920 Channel where the Vikings came over and slaughtered most of 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.640 the population of my hometown. They started with the monks 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:16.360 and they landed on Linda's farn, remember remember the yeah 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:19.920 I knew them, actually a great man, but Linda's fan 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:26.040 where the monks made very peaceful and the Vikings landed 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:28.359 there and couldn't understand why they weren't fighting back, so 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:32.760 they were just chopping everybody up. And so that's the 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:37.120 first sort of Biking invasion to Britain. Then they realized, oh, 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:39.880 this is going to be easier. Nobody fights back. Of 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:43.799 course they didn't realize that we had castles and stuff 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:48.360 further inland. Um so, but I think, you know, I've 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:52.040 got Viking blood most people from the northeast, you know, 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.960 where they were just raped and pillage going back. So 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.839 if you do a DNA tests, lots of us have 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:01.880 like Norwegian, Danish or scan an Avian in the DNA. 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:04.560 You know, have you done the DNA test? Well, I 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:06.960 don't want to because I personally think that it's going 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:10.920 to be used. It could be used later on in 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.920 a very sort of scary way, just the same way 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:19.280 as everybody's selling data and information about everything your DNA. 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:23.640 I'm sure they could do the same thing. And also 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:31.800 when things right rise up, you know, fascist movements, so whatever. Um, 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.560 I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't want to people 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:38.840 to know their exact genetic history, you know, well I 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:40.280 don't want to know. I don't want to, you know, 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:43.280 to find out all these people in my history and 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:46.359 come tracking me down and there's a lot of stories. 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:47.840 Unless you do it at a really high level, you 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.719 get inaccurate results anyway. So what did your parents do 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:56.360 for a living in Sunderland? Well, my father when he 0:05:56.560 --> 0:06:02.680 was his dad was working in the shipyard just for 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.599 the how far asunderland from the water, our Sundland's on 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:08.719 the water on the Yeah, you see we have the 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:12.919 river where which has had a large you know, it 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:15.680 was a large river in the mouth, so they could 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:20.200 build as big ships as only Japanese and Sunderland that 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:23.680 were the biggest ship building towns in the world. And 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.600 obviously when something closes down then you don't really hear 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:28.760 of it. But if you read in the history of it, Okay, 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:31.560 just to be very clear, Sunderlands, how far from Newcastle 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:37.359 are about fourteen miles? And why was the ship building 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:41.120 in Sunderland as opposed to New Newcastle. I think it 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.000 was just the narrowness of the river in Newcastle and 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:46.800 the width of the river in Sundland. So when they 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:50.719 launched these giant ships so which were enormous. I remember 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:55.159 once as a school kid, we got taken to the 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:58.120 side of the launch, you know, and it was like, 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:01.160 you know, as a kid, it was just like, well, 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:06.719 it's like three streets of houses, you know. Um. In fact, 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:11.840 there's a there was a Japanese chap who worked out 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:14.840 when they got lost inside a ship that big, big 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:17.880 wan they're trying to build it, they had to have 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:20.840 a method of to work out where they were. Oh really, yeah, 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:24.480 So I can't remember his name, it's thing us Away 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:28.840 Ketami or something like that. He Um, he worked out 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:31.000 a thing and now they call it the fishbone method, 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:35.080 which is still used in many other. Well, yeah, yeah, 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:37.200 I went out a really large ship for this event. 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.640 And the little fish in the row and the carpets 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.000 you know which direction you were going exactly. Yeah, But 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.840 he divided it up into bones on a fish so 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.760 that you knew you were in section you know, three B, 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.520 and that's where this rivet had to go into this thing. 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.760 And my dad's father worked in the shipyard and a 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:58.000 lot of men would go deaf because they had to 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:03.239 hold the giants or washer and rivet on one side, 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:05.680 where another guy sort of bashed on the boat on 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:10.440 the other. So there's ringing in the ears and and 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:12.920 so my dad didn't really have any shoes until he 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:16.400 was about nine or ten. He used to play football 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:19.480 soccer in the street with the pigs bladder from the 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:24.080 butcher's so they would blow up the pigs bladder and 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:28.040 then let it dry and then that would become their football. 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:33.240 And so when he was sixteen, his dad saved for 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:37.080 about ten years and bought my dad a bicycle, you know, 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.920 on his sixteenth birthday, so he could go and into 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.800 the town and get a job as somebody who delivers 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:49.040 things on a bicycle. On a first day, he came 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:53.120 out of this office where he was delivering something. Somebody 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:57.240 had stolen it. He had to walk all the way 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:01.720 home in tears. So so my dad then, you know, 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:05.440 about a year and a half later, was told, well, 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:08.280 now you have to go and be in the army 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:10.600 or the air force or whatever, because war broke out 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.880 and he he wanted to be in the air force. 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:19.440 And then the most bizarre thing happened. A lot of 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.959 these guys said, okay, we are you going to get 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:26.199 on this ship? And the ship ended up in India, right, 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:28.160 And it was in India for like four and a 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:31.000 half years. And what they had they had sort of 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:36.719 planes there that were sort of hidden as reconnaissance planes, um, 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.400 because the Japanese had started to sort of come into 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:44.720 the war. And he was so confused because he'd never 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.880 been out of Sunderland and it was suddenly boiling hot 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:55.120 in Calcutta. And but then years later, there's a lot 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:58.160 a lot happens when men are grouped together into a 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:00.880 situation like that. He always flex on it like it 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:05.560 was the best time with you know, all these guys 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.920 from his hometown mixed with guys from other places. I 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:12.679 think the ship on the way there held about or 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.040 something that we're all throwing up all over the place 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:17.199 because it was never been on a ship, and it 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:21.240 was miles when they got I think when they got 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:24.800 to Glasgow to chain ships, they thought they were there. 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:30.480 They'd never been anywhere. Yeah, and so then they were 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:32.480 really confused when they got put on another ship, and 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.000 then they were like days and days and days and days. 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:42.800 So yeah, and my mom, she her mother um, brought 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:46.920 up four girls on her own, running a pub, you know, 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:51.920 like a bar in the coal mining area of Sunderland 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:55.439 where all the coal miners would come covered in coal 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.920 and stuff to drink. Yeah, after they came out of 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:03.200 the mine. But her father, remember this father died when 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:06.800 she was nine of consumption, which is a little bit 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:10.400 like I suppose you get with the coronavirus, speeded up 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:15.199 your long sort of you can't breathe anymore. Basically, was 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:19.600 he a coal miner, Uh no, I think you might 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:21.120 have worked at the pit, but I don't think he 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:25.360 was in mind that I went down. Obviously I never 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:29.880 got to meet him. But so what happened was, and 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:34.280 this happened probably in America too, is my mom was 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:41.160 working as office girl runner kind of person in the town, 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.719 and the guy who ran that company said, all the 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:49.480 girls here, here's a soldier and an address. You must 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:54.160 write to them while they're away. Yeah, and be a 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.280 pen pal. So my dad would get a letter like 0:11:56.360 --> 0:12:00.199 once a month in India somehow from this, and he 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:02.960 called Sadie and of course they fell in love over 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:08.480 the letters. Right, So immediately he returned and her twin 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:11.080 sister had been right into another guy, so they had 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:17.920 a double marriage twins with two soldiers returning. And I 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.520 have to since your mother is a twin, I my 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:24.720 girlfriend's a twin, right. How close was she with her sister? 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:29.960 Are ridiculous because they were identical twins, and strange things 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:34.280 would happen, like evidently when me and my brother came, 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.160 the twin sister would ring up my mom, who was asleep, 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.320 to tell her the milk was boiling over wow, and 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.800 stuff like that. You know, my my girlfriend talked about 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:46.400 that kind of stuff too. They say, they sure a brain, 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:51.440 they'll show up wearing the same clothes, and so so 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:55.560 much so that when I was that was pretty sort 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:59.360 of kind of a rough place when I was growing up, 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:04.080 So a number of sort of run ins or sort 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:08.880 of running away really from kids rough you know, kids 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.320 or wanted to have fights and stuff. At one time, 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:16.200 this score here on my wrist. Those these kids caught 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:18.000 hold of me in a field and they were trying 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.360 to sort of cut me up with something. They couldn't 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:23.640 find anything, and they got a rusty old tiner peas 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.520 and they started like rubbing the lid on my arm 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.360 till it sort of slipped my wrist. Well. Of course, 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:33.720 I ran into the shop where my mom was working, 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:37.920 a little newsagent that sold newspapers and snuff and tobacco. 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.079 And the blood was just spurting up all over the 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.720 black and white newspapers, and I thought it was my mom, 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:48.160 but it was my mom's twin sister, and she she 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:53.320 was obviously screaming like but they immediately did the right 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:55.679 thing and tied a sort of teetowl around my arm 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:57.680 and held it up in the air, and then I 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:01.480 had to walk down the hill to her children's hospital. 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:03.839 The way I think guys titched it up with no 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:08.040 anesthetic or anything. It was just like, oh, come here, son, 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:14.240 like you. But so yeah, maybe we would often confuse 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:18.200 my mom and to insist it was bizarre. Okay, So 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:27.280 they stayed married. They stayed married till my mom, who 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:31.800 had to work in the pub with her mother from 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:34.840 the age of eleven, so never really went to school, 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:43.080 and so she didn't really understand her intelligence to My 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:47.040 brother went to the grammar school, and he was bringing 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:49.800 home books and talking to his friends about their homework, 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.800 and she was really interested in this stuff they were 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:56.320 talking about, and so she saw that they ever seen 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.160 Julia of the Spirits. I haven't seen her, Bama aware 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:04.720 of it. I've seen a woman under the influence, of course. Okay, 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:07.560 so can you imagine that sort of housewife in the house. 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.360 My dad's now at work every day and doing night 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:14.360 schools to try and you know, get a better position, 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.840 and she's starting to lose her mind because so boring 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:21.880 and everybody is talking about, you know, the price of 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:25.400 fish and this, and she's kind of got like in 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.880 her head some philosophy and a bit of Shakespeare whatever 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:33.600 my brother's been studying. And so she thought she was 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:37.640 going crazy, and so much so that my mom actually 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:42.720 went to a mental hospital, and I remember cycling to 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:47.720 see her visit her. It's very distressing because they immediately 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:51.760 put you on some kind of drug and then they 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.360 started giving her a series of electric shock treatments, which 0:15:54.440 --> 0:15:56.560 lou Reid taught to me about. You know, he had 0:15:56.600 --> 0:16:00.600 electric shock treatments. His parents sort of and sisted he 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:05.360 get them. Thought he was mad and so um. But 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:11.040 one day a miraculous thing happened, which is some people 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:15.040 are just stunning, right. So a guy comes to the hospital, 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:18.080 a new younger guy to be ahead of it instead, 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:20.040 I want to see every patient. Taught them for a 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:22.160 while and listening and at the end of talking to 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:26.920 my mom and this he said, uh said he, I 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.480 really don't think there's much wrong with you. I think 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.640 you really are really intelligent. And you need to go 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:38.440 to a night school or something and study and and 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:40.960 I personally will take you and drive you there twice 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:47.120 a week. Yeah, and he did, and she then immediately 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:50.760 started to sort of feel better and absorbed in what 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:56.040 when this was happening, Well, I was about ten eleven twelve, 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:01.040 and she went to college past a lot of exams 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:05.760 and matriculated into Durham University, which is very difficult university 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:10.000 to get in, and got an honors degree and went 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:13.639 to London, left my dad and became a teacher. Then 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:17.200 a headmistress of a school for children with special needs. 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:22.320 So um, my dad though, he got really depressed and 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:26.160 he didn't want to leave. But she used to say 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:31.480 something really great. It was like I didn't have the 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:33.600 the strength to stay or something like that. It was 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:39.000 like it was so difficult for her to now not 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.639 continue the journey, you know. And then she met a 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:49.080 zen Buddhist guy called Julian. It's incredible story and I 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:52.560 thought would be a brilliant opening to her re sort 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:58.280 of beautiful story of a love um in a you know, 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:02.159 some low budget film, but they cically, she met this 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.320 woman that when she arrived in London who was going 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.040 to the same sort of the next step you have 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:12.000 to take to become teaching at special school. And this 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.960 lady was called Begonia and she had a husband called Julian, 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:19.720 but they were kind of sleeping in separate bedrooms. But 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:24.240 she'd heard her talk about this amazing woman called Sadia 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:28.880 is coming for tea. So Julia he got sort of 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:31.520 one of those boards that you wear around your neck 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.840 and wrote on it, the ice caps are slowly melting. 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.480 Everybody is in great danger. For more information, ring this 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:42.640 number just back in like nine eight or something like that, 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:46.320 and because he read a book by Fred Hoyle called Ice, 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:50.480 which was predicted exactly what's happening. And so my mom 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:54.119 was coming down a street in Roustall and Hill in 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:56.960 Hampstead out of the tube station or what you call 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:59.960 the subway, and there's this guy with a long, funny 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:04.400 gray beard and hair sticking out everywhere, ringing a bell 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:07.720 with his sign. And the reason he was doing that 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:10.160 is because he had to d visions, so he couldn't 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:13.920 you know, he had to be make sure that Sadie 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:17.840 saw the sign. And she stopped him and she said, hey, 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:21.520 excuse me, there's some mistake here. That's my telephone. And 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:25.600 he said, Sadie, I've been dying to meet you, right, 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:29.760 And they basically fell madly in love and ended up 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:33.320 getting married. And my dad did the most amazing thing. 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:37.080 He came to London and gave her away like a father, 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:40.600 would you know? Yeah, So did he ever find somebody new? 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:44.439 He did later on, but it took him almost to 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:50.800 that point to so of let go. And so it 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:54.440 was amazing. And Julian became a very large influence on me, 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:59.160 being a Sain Buddhist and funny enough when Bob Dylan 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:02.960 used to come around my house in London Tour East. 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:07.280 Then I bought my mom a little flat round the 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:11.240 corner before we would go somewhere else. You go, hey, 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:14.000 how about we go and see that Julian guy again, 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.280 And we would go there and Julian had no idea 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:21.960 who he was. And you know, Julian wrote haiku poetry 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:26.960 that was translated back into Japanese, which is, you know, 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:30.439 pretty tricky thing to do when you're from Brittany and 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:33.080 you're writing in English. So you're from France writing in 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:37.320 English and it's translated into Japanese. But my favorite one 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:42.760 that he wrote because he never used any food, you know, 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.080 that was brought to that my mom made. He lived 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:48.080 completely from stuff you found on the street. You know, 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:51.240 you lived by his words. So he knew the baker's shop. 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:55.280 He wasn't stupid, so that would put out the bent classant, 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:56.919 you know, on the morning and night, but it was 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:00.160 still nice and warm. Then he would see the guy 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:02.879 who always went to work and put his Sunday and 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:06.240 the Times newspaper in the bin. They just pulled that 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:09.200 out and eat the cross on. And he just lived 0:21:09.240 --> 0:21:11.119 like that for it. You know, even when she met him, 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:13.560 he was doing that, so she was used to it. 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:17.440 But he wrote this great hyper hiker, was this dunk 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:22.160 to biscuit? Will it won't it reach my mouth? That's 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.639 how much she was into, like just you know the 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:29.119 moment when he wrote other great ones like between the 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:34.359 Slabs of Gone Civilizations the grass grows right. So, but 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:36.080 yet every now and he would write a fun one. 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:40.840 You know, did he have a paying job. No, he didn't, 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:43.280 you know, any paying job. But he didn't actually have 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:46.760 any money or spend any money. And he didn't you know, 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:49.560 he he would find everything. I would come around. He 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.560 always called my mom poppet. Right, He's French, and if 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:58.600 I were, oh, David, David, He's found an electronic chest 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:02.280 set somebody had thrown away and plugged it in. It's 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:06.119 having having a wonderful day playing against you know. He 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:08.880 always had something going on. Okay, and your father did 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:11.959 what for a living? Well, my father worked for the 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:16.560 same firm that my mother wrote to him from. So 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:19.240 this guy was a lovely guy called Allan J. Gray. 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:23.480 And it was like a firm of accountants that would 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:27.679 when I say accountants, they would do go into a 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:31.760 little shop that sold everything from rubber bands to comics, 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:34.040 and they had to take stock of the whole thing 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:37.199 and help them work out their tacks and everything, and 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:39.720 things like guys who would back their lorry into the 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:42.760 sea and get coal out of the sea. So it 0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:45.760 was nobody's and then but it was covered in salt, 0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:50.800 just all sorts of mad stuff, right, So he worked 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:55.320 his way up from being the tea boy there because 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:58.280 when my mom married him, of course, the same guy, 0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:01.200 Allen J. Gray, who owned it, said, well, then we 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:03.679 come and work in here a bit, and then you 0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:06.639 realize you're smart, so you kind of went up the ladder, 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:10.040 said night school. A lot of people used to help 0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:12.840 each other outs, just had the war, you know, it 0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:15.720 was like they'd all come back, these soldiers, no jobs, nothing. 0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:18.560 And he worked his way all the way up to 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:23.480 becoming a partner. Yeah, but a tiny little it wasn't 0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:28.320 even it was in seam Harbor, which is and even smaller, 0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:33.520 tiny little town, not even town or village, just outside 0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:36.359 of Sunderland. But it was a big thing for the 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:40.879 family because we lived in a house like you know 0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:44.080 when you watch Beatles help you know, the houses are 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:47.960 just a Coronation Street. Well, that's exactly where we lived, 0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:50.000 and to tell you through it, it was very happy 0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:54.399 little row of streets because the neighbors all had the 0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:57.159 doors open. It didn't matter if I I'd be like 0:23:57.240 --> 0:23:59.879 six or seven, I'd run into a neighbor three up 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:04.920 for jam and bread. You know, just everybody just was helped. 0:24:05.000 --> 0:24:07.240 You know. The big thing my dad had an allotment 0:24:08.040 --> 0:24:11.840 where he had would grow new potatoes and then once 0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:15.520 every four months or something, the neighbors would all come 0:24:15.520 --> 0:24:18.000 around the house and eat new potatoes with butter and 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:21.199 mint salt, and that was the big thing of the 0:24:22.440 --> 0:24:26.159 of the week, you know. Okay, so you grew up 0:24:26.240 --> 0:24:29.719 your other brother. Your brother is older. Yeah, my brother's 0:24:29.760 --> 0:24:31.960 five years older than me. And what is he doing 0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:37.119 right now? Well he's retired now. But before that, he 0:24:37.320 --> 0:24:42.359 started off with a bumpy start. He went to Liverpool 0:24:42.600 --> 0:24:45.920 University where he wanted to study law, but he wasn't 0:24:45.920 --> 0:24:47.800 sure what he wanted to do when he chose that. 0:24:48.480 --> 0:24:51.840 The first week there, he was in a fish and 0:24:51.920 --> 0:24:55.520 chip shop where a fight broke out and somebody was 0:24:55.560 --> 0:25:00.359 stabbed and murdered. So because it was a gang, he 0:25:00.520 --> 0:25:03.399 was then told we had to go back to Sundland 0:25:03.480 --> 0:25:07.439 and and he would have protection when he had appear 0:25:07.480 --> 0:25:09.879 in court as a witness. But he couldn't be in 0:25:09.920 --> 0:25:14.320 Liverpool anymore basically, so he was really depressed and he 0:25:14.400 --> 0:25:19.800 went on a job picking tomatoes in Guernsey and things 0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:22.280 like that, and then he eventually ended up going to 0:25:22.320 --> 0:25:27.800 a college in London and studying to be a teacher. 0:25:27.800 --> 0:25:29.720 But he didn't like that either. He was just always 0:25:29.760 --> 0:25:32.840 obsessed with film. I remember even when I was a kid, 0:25:32.880 --> 0:25:35.879 he was like I had acted in his film, you know, 0:25:36.119 --> 0:25:39.879 And there's some funny films my dad has. When my 0:25:40.000 --> 0:25:44.280 brother's got the camera and like my brother's given me 0:25:44.359 --> 0:25:47.040 like a toy cowboy gun. I'm about nine or something 0:25:47.520 --> 0:25:50.679 and he's like giving me my lines and everything, but 0:25:50.760 --> 0:25:52.840 I'm really annoyed. I'm gonna just see me run at 0:25:52.840 --> 0:25:55.639 the camera with the back of hit him on the 0:25:55.640 --> 0:26:00.000 head and the cameras falls over. So okay, so you're 0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:03.720 in Sunderland, you're growing up. Are you the type of 0:26:03.800 --> 0:26:06.840 kid who's popular? Do you have friends? How do you 0:26:06.880 --> 0:26:15.159 do in school? Um? Now I was when I to 0:26:15.400 --> 0:26:18.719 what's called the eleven plus they have a different name 0:26:18.800 --> 0:26:22.520 for here, you know, it's but it's basically when you're 0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:26.680 eleven and you do this exam and it decides where 0:26:26.720 --> 0:26:30.320 you go to and the same as when you would 0:26:30.320 --> 0:26:32.440 do it here for college. However, but you're only eleven 0:26:32.520 --> 0:26:36.200 years old, and my brother had already got into what 0:26:36.280 --> 0:26:40.520 was called Bead Grammar School for boys. Now Bead was 0:26:40.640 --> 0:26:44.840 named after the Venerable Bead, which even though I'm from 0:26:44.880 --> 0:26:49.600 the northeast of you know, Sunderland, like the churches and 0:26:49.680 --> 0:26:53.479 things or a thousand years old, you know, it's like 0:26:54.359 --> 0:26:59.400 so Bead was the first person to sort of like 0:26:59.640 --> 0:27:03.439 right down the official English language, you know. So if 0:27:03.440 --> 0:27:06.160 you go to Durham Cathedral which near there, he can 0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:10.760 see Venerable Beads writings and stuff. So he got into 0:27:10.800 --> 0:27:14.440 this school and it was a grammar school. Now grammar 0:27:14.480 --> 0:27:17.280 school that means your parents pay for it. No, No, 0:27:17.640 --> 0:27:22.199 grammar school is when you've got very good marks on 0:27:22.320 --> 0:27:27.679 your eleven plus so nobody pays for it. That's like 0:27:27.720 --> 0:27:32.880 a private schools. Just and when the Labor government came in, 0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:35.720 they scrapped grammar schools because I said it was unfair 0:27:36.400 --> 0:27:38.919 that you would have some people in a secondary school. 0:27:39.720 --> 0:27:43.239 But the grammar school had the better teachers or whatever. Well, 0:27:43.200 --> 0:27:46.520 what happened when I took my MN plus, I actually, 0:27:47.480 --> 0:27:49.920 even though I actually didn't know what I was doing, 0:27:50.200 --> 0:27:53.840 somehow I got very good marks. That was only about 0:27:53.840 --> 0:27:59.199 three kids chosen to go into a special school in 0:27:59.359 --> 0:28:04.919 durham Um that had you know, kids with you know, 0:28:05.119 --> 0:28:10.399 gifts in certain areas. And but I can't complained like 0:28:10.560 --> 0:28:14.359 mad for my parents to let me go to the 0:28:14.359 --> 0:28:17.679 same school as my brother. So they eventually gave in. 0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:21.040 And because my dad had now become a bit higher 0:28:21.119 --> 0:28:24.240 up in the accountancy firm, he thought, okay, I'll get 0:28:24.280 --> 0:28:28.520 a house where the fence joins that school, and then 0:28:28.520 --> 0:28:32.760 he usually clearly cut the sort of cut secretly on 0:28:32.760 --> 0:28:35.280 a Saturday, this kind of hole in the fence and 0:28:35.359 --> 0:28:38.200 put hinges on it that you couldn't see. So I 0:28:38.240 --> 0:28:40.480 didn't have to go all the way around all the streets. 0:28:41.080 --> 0:28:43.080 I could go out the back garden open the hole 0:28:43.080 --> 0:28:51.240 in the fence. You wanted to go to the grammar 0:28:51.360 --> 0:28:55.240 schools opposed to other school because because my brother went 0:28:55.320 --> 0:28:58.800 there and I was scared to go to Diramote was 0:28:58.880 --> 0:29:03.760 like ten miles away something. And well I made a 0:29:03.800 --> 0:29:06.360 bit of a mistake because like. Then a year later 0:29:07.560 --> 0:29:11.000 they changed the law and there was no grammar schools. 0:29:11.040 --> 0:29:14.320 Everything was called a comprehensive school. And so where we 0:29:14.400 --> 0:29:17.320 lived was right next to a very rough housing estate, 0:29:18.400 --> 0:29:22.440 like a project. And of course so all the kids 0:29:22.480 --> 0:29:25.720 who were that the grammar school just they weren't liked 0:29:25.760 --> 0:29:29.160 by their kids from the projects. And I was particularly 0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:32.640 not like because I was a bit sort of I 0:29:32.680 --> 0:29:37.280 don't know, probably eccentric or whatever. And I would do 0:29:37.320 --> 0:29:40.360 all sorts of things that I thought they might like, 0:29:40.520 --> 0:29:42.600 but there was always the wrong thing, you know what, 0:29:42.680 --> 0:29:45.320 I mean to try and befriend them. And then when 0:29:45.360 --> 0:29:47.120 I look back, and I actually wrote a book called 0:29:47.120 --> 0:29:50.320 The Business Playground where I put one of the things 0:29:50.360 --> 0:29:54.480 I were doing it as kind of the wrong thing 0:29:54.560 --> 0:29:59.160 to do. And I managed to make a sort of 0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:04.840 trick shop machine right that if you had both hands 0:30:05.000 --> 0:30:07.440 held of these two things, I would like wind the 0:30:07.520 --> 0:30:10.400 handle and it it would give them electric shop. Well, obviously 0:30:10.560 --> 0:30:14.360 that's not going to go down well. In my mind, 0:30:14.440 --> 0:30:18.000 I thought they'd enjoy it, but I must go back 0:30:18.000 --> 0:30:19.920 to my mom getting electric shot. I don't know. But 0:30:21.400 --> 0:30:25.440 so I got into you know, very sort of lonely 0:30:25.600 --> 0:30:29.560 kind of position there and The only thing I thought 0:30:29.640 --> 0:30:34.040 I could do is I joined all the sports teams. 0:30:34.080 --> 0:30:37.960 You know, I want to play everything, And so I 0:30:38.120 --> 0:30:40.760 was played soccer like three times on a Saturday for 0:30:40.840 --> 0:30:45.120 three different teams. I did pole vaulting. Sounds odd, but 0:30:45.280 --> 0:30:52.840 I did it and highest you clear, I don't know, Um, 0:30:53.000 --> 0:31:00.880 I'm not sure. Actually it's about sort of probably twice 0:31:00.880 --> 0:31:03.280 the height of me at the time. But the worst 0:31:03.320 --> 0:31:05.840 part about it was this wasn't like poll vaulting you've 0:31:05.880 --> 0:31:10.160 seen in the Olympics. You know where the pool bends. 0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:12.760 This is like the poll doesn't hardly budge, and it's 0:31:12.800 --> 0:31:14.640 like metal and it hits in the teeth, you know. 0:31:14.720 --> 0:31:22.720 So anyway, you know, during that soccer sort of I 0:31:22.760 --> 0:31:30.800 suppose obsession. I actually had my knee broken really badly, 0:31:30.880 --> 0:31:35.680 has put in hospital, and when surgeon spoke to me 0:31:35.760 --> 0:31:39.680 after the operation, he was really chirpy and he was going, yeah, 0:31:39.840 --> 0:31:42.040 let's be great. You know, you'll be up and walking 0:31:42.080 --> 0:31:45.280 in six months and probably playing football in a year. 0:31:45.400 --> 0:31:50.000 And I was like what And honestly, I I was 0:31:50.040 --> 0:31:54.680 so depressed. I had no idea. Um. I had to 0:31:54.720 --> 0:31:57.160 get my head around that, like what to do for 0:31:57.240 --> 0:32:02.960 six months? Can't walk? And my brother brought in and 0:32:03.080 --> 0:32:04.880 all you know when you go around some of his house, 0:32:04.880 --> 0:32:08.480 and I've got a Spanish guitar, dusty with castanets, and 0:32:09.360 --> 0:32:12.640 nobody's ever played it. My grandma had one of those, 0:32:12.840 --> 0:32:15.480 my grandmother, and he brought it in with about three 0:32:15.480 --> 0:32:17.760 strings on it, and I was like, what am I 0:32:17.800 --> 0:32:21.120 going to do with this? I wasn't even interested in music, 0:32:21.320 --> 0:32:23.840 even though my brother had come home once and seen 0:32:24.880 --> 0:32:28.040 seen the Beatles play at the sound An Empire and 0:32:28.320 --> 0:32:31.680 was trying to explain it. I was just saying, so, 0:32:32.520 --> 0:32:36.959 and did your parents play music in the house. Nope? 0:32:37.920 --> 0:32:44.800 My mom when she ran about this time, my mom, 0:32:44.840 --> 0:32:48.080 you know, had come back from the mental hospital and 0:32:48.200 --> 0:32:53.240 being gone, and she had discovered Ray Charles. But now 0:32:53.280 --> 0:32:55.880 I realized why she kept playing take these Chains from 0:32:55.880 --> 0:32:58.680 my Heart, Set Me Free right, which she played over 0:32:58.680 --> 0:33:01.480 and over again till I was give us a break. 0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:06.240 But but what happened was in the hospital I realized 0:33:07.480 --> 0:33:11.440 I could pick out a chun on one string really easy, 0:33:11.560 --> 0:33:14.640 like a workout at tune. So when I got home, 0:33:14.720 --> 0:33:17.680 my brother had another guitar, but he'd gone off to 0:33:18.600 --> 0:33:22.760 pick tomatoes and then was going to college, and so 0:33:22.960 --> 0:33:25.920 I picked up this other guitar, and the guy around 0:33:25.920 --> 0:33:30.320 the corner to me, his father was in a Japanese 0:33:30.400 --> 0:33:33.720 prison of war camp and he stayed alive by he 0:33:33.880 --> 0:33:37.320 made a guitar out of the floorboards or some wood 0:33:37.360 --> 0:33:41.960 and wires and things to entertain his you know, other guys. 0:33:42.000 --> 0:33:46.080 But I think most of them were tortured to death, right, 0:33:46.160 --> 0:33:49.960 so he was one of the few survivors. And funnily enough, 0:33:50.400 --> 0:33:53.040 his son just told me today's dad was just a 0:33:53.080 --> 0:33:58.280 hundred and one, was still talking and doing talks actually, 0:33:58.280 --> 0:34:02.360 and things like that. But he I realized he played 0:34:02.400 --> 0:34:06.360 this guitar. So I went round his house and he 0:34:06.480 --> 0:34:09.200 was really pleased, like, oh, good, well done. Ka, Yeah, 0:34:09.200 --> 0:34:11.120 I'll show you how you do a few things. But 0:34:11.200 --> 0:34:14.600 I didn't realize he didn't really play the guitar in 0:34:14.760 --> 0:34:18.400 normal way. He just invented a tuning and was just 0:34:19.680 --> 0:34:22.200 putting his finger across it and growing up and down, 0:34:22.239 --> 0:34:26.320 and he kind of tried to invent quasi Japanese English 0:34:26.320 --> 0:34:29.799 things so the guards wouldn't sort, you know, be too 0:34:29.840 --> 0:34:34.840 tough on him. And so I went away from that thinking, okay, 0:34:34.840 --> 0:34:37.759 I'll try and play that. And then my brother and 0:34:37.840 --> 0:34:44.040 my cousin simultaneously. My brother was now eighteen and he'd 0:34:44.080 --> 0:34:49.160 got into blues music, and my cousin, who I know, 0:34:49.200 --> 0:34:51.759 it sounds like it was our family. But at the 0:34:51.760 --> 0:34:55.759 age of about thirteen, this is in Sunland, where I'm 0:34:55.760 --> 0:34:58.400 trying to talk in a much more sort of like 0:35:00.480 --> 0:35:04.160 an accent that's not too strong, say my normal accent. 0:35:04.239 --> 0:35:06.360 You wouldn't really understand. Can you do it for the 0:35:06.480 --> 0:35:09.200 last a little bit? Sure? What do you want me 0:35:09.239 --> 0:35:12.839 to say? Continue the story with your normal accent? All right? 0:35:12.880 --> 0:35:16.840 Well me cousin Ian who lived in South Sas Okay, Okay, 0:35:16.880 --> 0:35:20.840 back to English. Okay, I didn't even actually lived in Southwick, 0:35:21.360 --> 0:35:25.680 but my cousin who lived in a littlaria called Southwick 0:35:26.480 --> 0:35:29.520 with my mom's you know, the son of my mom's 0:35:29.800 --> 0:35:33.720 non twin sister. And she also had a tiny little 0:35:33.800 --> 0:35:37.800 shop that's sold newspapers and the stuff called snuff that 0:35:37.840 --> 0:35:40.440 you put up your nose a bit like coke, money 0:35:41.080 --> 0:35:46.880 legal and and so I don't know why, but about 0:35:46.920 --> 0:35:49.120 the age of twelve thirty and he started speaking with 0:35:49.200 --> 0:35:53.440 a heavy Memphis twang. Right now. He used to get 0:35:53.440 --> 0:35:56.759 beaten up every day for this because in Sunderland, if 0:35:57.360 --> 0:35:59.840 he suddenly got to school and you go, how y'all 0:35:59.840 --> 0:36:01.840 do and the like shut the funk up, like bum 0:36:01.840 --> 0:36:06.920 bum bum, you know. And he he just wouldn't stop, 0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:11.960 like you, just wouldn't stop all the time until he 0:36:12.040 --> 0:36:14.080 got to about seventeen and eighteen and he went to 0:36:14.120 --> 0:36:20.319 Memphis and he lives there still. I hope he's listening, yeah, 0:36:20.360 --> 0:36:23.040 and he actually when I made the film Deep Blues 0:36:23.800 --> 0:36:28.160 in one, you know, I went out filmed R. L. 0:36:28.200 --> 0:36:31.640 Burn Side and all Jessim a Hemphill and all these 0:36:31.640 --> 0:36:36.920 amazing players, um with Robert Palmer doing the narration, who 0:36:36.960 --> 0:36:39.920 wrote the book Deep Blues. And Ian was really helpful 0:36:39.960 --> 0:36:43.160 because most of these people obviously didn't have a telephone, 0:36:43.200 --> 0:36:45.200 well none of them out a telephone, and nobody had 0:36:45.200 --> 0:36:48.520 a particularly easy way to get to their place, which 0:36:48.600 --> 0:36:51.719 was up a dirt track somewhere. And then it was like, yeah, 0:36:51.719 --> 0:36:54.400 when you can meet like the oil man, who was 0:36:54.600 --> 0:36:57.239 this other blues player at this post office at so 0:36:57.360 --> 0:37:00.640 and so, you know, it was like so complicated. Anyway, 0:37:00.760 --> 0:37:05.600 so Ian sent me and my brother a box from Memphis, 0:37:05.760 --> 0:37:09.560 and honestly, when it arrived, it was the first thing 0:37:09.600 --> 0:37:12.960 we really seen from America. It was just an American stamp, 0:37:13.080 --> 0:37:16.360 you know what about six stamps on it, and it 0:37:16.440 --> 0:37:18.279 was so exotic. So we just looked at the box 0:37:18.320 --> 0:37:21.520 for about an hour and then we opened it and 0:37:22.200 --> 0:37:28.520 it was covered in um right very I can't even 0:37:28.520 --> 0:37:30.680 explain because when you're from Sunday and everything is so rough. 0:37:30.960 --> 0:37:33.319 So I had this kind of soft tissue paper. So 0:37:33.400 --> 0:37:36.000 we sort of we're touching that for a bit, and 0:37:36.000 --> 0:37:38.360 then we owned it and there was these Levi corduroy 0:37:38.520 --> 0:37:41.080 jeans in it, and who was like, oh my god, like, 0:37:42.080 --> 0:37:44.160 so I've got these jeans out. But then under that 0:37:45.000 --> 0:37:49.960 he had put Mississippi John Hurt, Robert Johnson King the 0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:55.000 Delta Blues scene like these albums. So I put them 0:37:55.000 --> 0:37:59.920 on and when nobody was in, you know, my leg 0:38:00.920 --> 0:38:03.399 up and I was like it sounded like something from 0:38:03.400 --> 0:38:07.520 out of space, like, but I also sounded like my 0:38:07.680 --> 0:38:10.560 neighbor two doors down who was singing half in Japanese 0:38:10.600 --> 0:38:12.920 and half in English with his guitar to into a 0:38:12.960 --> 0:38:17.560 weird chord. So I started to sort of like play 0:38:17.719 --> 0:38:22.960 blue stuff in this called you know tune, and they 0:38:23.040 --> 0:38:25.800 really I mean our old burnside if he plays jumper 0:38:25.840 --> 0:38:30.200 on the line he's literally just playing e ju Jun 0:38:30.280 --> 0:38:36.360 chunk junk junk Jun didn't play, you know. And and 0:38:36.520 --> 0:38:39.719 even the early blues you know, where they're just a 0:38:39.880 --> 0:38:43.200 one string pulled across and they hit it and barron 0:38:43.239 --> 0:38:46.000 out and then they started using a slide. So I 0:38:46.120 --> 0:38:49.799 got a wine bottle or a beer bottle, and there 0:38:49.840 --> 0:38:53.760 was this guy called stuff and Grossman had a book 0:38:54.120 --> 0:38:58.080 about how to play the bottleneck guitar, which was in 0:38:58.320 --> 0:39:03.080 this music shop in Sunderlin, and you said, okay, you 0:39:03.160 --> 0:39:07.480 put your wine bottle under the tap, you pull a 0:39:07.520 --> 0:39:09.799 string around the neck like so it gets hot, and 0:39:09.800 --> 0:39:12.520 then put under the cool tap, hit it and it 0:39:12.560 --> 0:39:16.439 fell off. You stick it on your finger. My share, 0:39:16.480 --> 0:39:18.480 I wish I brought my guitar and a slide with 0:39:18.560 --> 0:39:25.280 me actually, and you then can actually play this bluesy slide. 0:39:25.960 --> 0:39:29.520 So once I got that going on, I was that 0:39:29.600 --> 0:39:32.520 was it. It was the same obsession as soccer. I 0:39:32.640 --> 0:39:36.760 just wanted to learn every way of playing blues music. 0:39:36.840 --> 0:39:41.200 And then my brother brought the first Bob Dylan album 0:39:41.280 --> 0:39:44.719 and the second Bob Dylan album and then I was 0:39:44.760 --> 0:39:47.680 like reading the words of it. I was like fucking 0:39:47.760 --> 0:39:50.480 he hang on a minute. And then I realized he 0:39:50.600 --> 0:39:57.000 was playing some kind of weird blues stuff, quasi blues, 0:39:57.080 --> 0:40:01.440 with like these amazing lyrics that were dealing with stuff, 0:40:02.920 --> 0:40:05.440 you know, in a different way, because a lot of 0:40:05.440 --> 0:40:08.880 blues music, as you know, was just trying to cope 0:40:08.880 --> 0:40:11.400 with the pain of being in the garden fields and 0:40:11.480 --> 0:40:16.520 slavery and and and then drinking sort of like neat 0:40:16.600 --> 0:40:20.160 alcohol and white lightning and all this kind of stuff. 0:40:20.760 --> 0:40:23.600 So that got me really interested in songs. And I 0:40:23.680 --> 0:40:26.880 know it as a whole because I was delayed in 0:40:26.960 --> 0:40:29.839 being interested because I was in the soccer. I kind 0:40:29.840 --> 0:40:32.080 of got into the Beatles when they had already started 0:40:32.080 --> 0:40:35.399 to sort of listen to Bob Dylan themselves, and then 0:40:35.440 --> 0:40:37.839 the Beach Boys are listened to the Beatles and vice first. 0:40:37.880 --> 0:40:41.320 So and I was like suddenly in a an amazing 0:40:42.920 --> 0:40:47.040 library wealth of stuff. I could hardly take it all in, 0:40:47.120 --> 0:40:48.760 so I was trying to learn it all at once. 0:40:49.440 --> 0:40:53.000 And that's why I became, I suppose, so eclectic in 0:40:53.160 --> 0:40:57.600 my musical taste, which I brought into your rhythmics, was 0:40:58.480 --> 0:41:00.960 you know, he suddenly electronic, it's R and B and 0:41:00.960 --> 0:41:04.040 then it's and Annie also who has trained to be 0:41:04.080 --> 0:41:08.960 a classical flute player and harpsichord at the Royal Academy Music. 0:41:09.560 --> 0:41:12.839 Hated it because it was so it was like going 0:41:12.880 --> 0:41:16.960 to school and competitive about you know, how ready is 0:41:17.000 --> 0:41:19.760 your neck from playing the violin, how much to practice 0:41:19.800 --> 0:41:23.360 all stuff. But she had really been obsessed with hearing 0:41:23.400 --> 0:41:27.720 Tamla motown. When you're in Scotland or Sunderland, are saying 0:41:28.640 --> 0:41:31.759 on a Friday night, there might be one place all 0:41:31.800 --> 0:41:34.120 the girls put the handbags in the middle and dance 0:41:34.200 --> 0:41:37.839 around a bit like Northern soul knights, and they play 0:41:37.960 --> 0:41:43.600 Tamla motown music. So our sort of fusion of the 0:41:43.719 --> 0:41:47.240 different worlds that we've learned meant and it could suddenly 0:41:47.239 --> 0:41:51.960 play classical keyboard. Oh, she could sing like a sort 0:41:52.000 --> 0:41:55.440 of Tamla motown soul singer. But I also need then 0:41:55.480 --> 0:42:00.839 had to make that sound, you know. And so and 0:42:01.760 --> 0:42:05.480 of course her stories not too dissimilar to mine. You know. 0:42:06.840 --> 0:42:11.160 In Aberdeen, you know, it was also very tough, hard 0:42:11.160 --> 0:42:16.560 working people who had had a lot taken away from them. So, okay, 0:42:16.760 --> 0:42:20.520 so do you graduate from school? Oh? No, I mean 0:42:20.719 --> 0:42:26.720 I ran away from school in this incredible mad thing happened. 0:42:26.880 --> 0:42:30.800 There was these guys called the furies from Ireland, a 0:42:30.920 --> 0:42:36.040 family of gypsies or of folks singing. And I started 0:42:36.040 --> 0:42:39.080 to go to folk clubs and I'd learned some Bob 0:42:39.120 --> 0:42:42.040 Dylan songs and some blues songs. And I would stand 0:42:42.080 --> 0:42:45.680 there outside and ask if I could play in the 0:42:45.760 --> 0:42:48.680 girl nor Son you know, you kind of come in, 0:42:48.760 --> 0:42:50.880 you know, because I looked about twelve and I was 0:42:50.920 --> 0:42:55.279 about fifteen. And then one guy says, you can come in, 0:42:55.320 --> 0:43:01.040 but you can only play two songs. That's understandable, right, okay, 0:43:01.120 --> 0:43:09.160 So I mean in English, and so I sang, um, 0:43:09.160 --> 0:43:12.120 it's all right, mom, why bleed or something my favorite 0:43:13.280 --> 0:43:18.000 and some blues song and with a bottle, which was 0:43:18.120 --> 0:43:21.399 people were like, I don't think they've seen it right, 0:43:21.440 --> 0:43:24.239 So it was that was kind of my trick to 0:43:24.320 --> 0:43:27.640 get in, and then I became regular at playing there. 0:43:28.440 --> 0:43:30.719 Then I got to see these other people coming through 0:43:31.080 --> 0:43:34.640 and they were like amazing, Bert Yea and David John 0:43:34.840 --> 0:43:39.320 like all these John Fay like okay, the actual people. 0:43:39.320 --> 0:43:44.000 They were the actual people. And then because there was 0:43:44.080 --> 0:43:46.120 folk clubs in London and then he wanted to do 0:43:46.160 --> 0:43:51.759 a tour, you know, and so and so I just 0:43:51.840 --> 0:43:55.960 got completely bonkers about playing the guitar and getting better 0:43:56.040 --> 0:44:01.320 at it. And so once I played at these folk clubs, 0:44:02.200 --> 0:44:06.759 um I started to understand like, Okay, there's the Kinks, 0:44:06.840 --> 0:44:10.080 and he's written a song Walter Loose Sunset, and there's 0:44:10.160 --> 0:44:12.080 this kind of writing in this kind of writing, and 0:44:12.200 --> 0:44:16.840 I just I just was so obsessed with learning everything 0:44:16.920 --> 0:44:19.840 that I would literally my fingers would be almost bleeding 0:44:20.400 --> 0:44:22.359 in the house. I used to put them in there 0:44:23.239 --> 0:44:26.480 vinegar at the end of the night to sort of 0:44:27.000 --> 0:44:30.840 get them tougher so that I could play all day. 0:44:31.040 --> 0:44:32.920 My dad once took me to the doctor because he 0:44:32.960 --> 0:44:35.799 thought one side of my chest was getting sort of 0:44:35.880 --> 0:44:39.560 concave from pressing the guitar against her all the time, right, 0:44:40.440 --> 0:44:43.040 And I just wouldn't be seeing without a guitar around town. 0:44:43.120 --> 0:44:45.640 So I was getting a bit older, I'd run away 0:44:45.640 --> 0:44:48.799 from dropped out of school. I would just go and 0:44:48.880 --> 0:44:52.319 hang out in the guys shop, the one boutique in 0:44:52.400 --> 0:44:55.279 Sunderland called West One, and they would let me sort 0:44:55.320 --> 0:44:58.280 of hide in the back or and I just played 0:44:58.280 --> 0:45:01.279 a guitar and now eventually hitch to London, and you know, 0:45:02.280 --> 0:45:06.680 it was the sort of gradual escape. Okay, then you 0:45:06.840 --> 0:45:09.520 end up making a deal with Rocket Records. What happens 0:45:09.560 --> 0:45:12.960 between running away from home and ending up with Alton 0:45:13.000 --> 0:45:18.160 John's company, right, Well, because I'd start playing guitar and 0:45:18.239 --> 0:45:23.120 got the folk clubs, there was a sort of supply teacher, 0:45:23.200 --> 0:45:26.239 like a temporary teacher, had been to our school just 0:45:26.360 --> 0:45:30.120 before I left, and he played the guitar and so 0:45:30.440 --> 0:45:35.200 he started to show me some real folk like Pentangle 0:45:35.360 --> 0:45:39.960 and that kind of stuff um Fairport convention. So we 0:45:40.000 --> 0:45:42.600 started playing together. Then we met two other kids from 0:45:42.600 --> 0:45:46.319 Sunderland and we started to play the four of us 0:45:46.360 --> 0:45:49.440 for acoustic guitars and was like Crosby Steels, Nation and 0:45:49.520 --> 0:45:52.840 young kind of thing. And we sent a tape to 0:45:53.040 --> 0:45:58.200 London and to Lionel Conway, who was stired from the 0:45:58.239 --> 0:46:02.200 other day he was he was running Ireland music for 0:46:02.360 --> 0:46:06.239 Chris Blackwell and he thought was really interesting. And then 0:46:06.360 --> 0:46:10.920 he realized that one of the kids brothers played drums 0:46:10.960 --> 0:46:14.600 for Elton John, and he gave it to him and 0:46:14.680 --> 0:46:17.240 I don't think he could believe it was his really 0:46:17.320 --> 0:46:21.719 younger brother, right, So anyway, this is very funny. Him 0:46:21.960 --> 0:46:27.000 and Mickey grab him from coaches, came around our by 0:46:27.040 --> 0:46:30.640 now we were in a squat in Sunderland. They came 0:46:30.680 --> 0:46:34.759 around to see if we really did could play, and 0:46:34.840 --> 0:46:38.960 so they brought with them from London this weed that 0:46:39.200 --> 0:46:43.399 was like really strong like and we'd all been able 0:46:43.440 --> 0:46:47.480 to buy like pound deals of Moroccan Harsh or something 0:46:47.600 --> 0:46:52.680 like spread amongst like twenty joints for fifty people, and 0:46:52.719 --> 0:46:55.319 they rolled them just straight like that and said, hey, 0:46:55.320 --> 0:46:57.520 I try some of this. So we did, and all 0:46:57.520 --> 0:46:59.680 that happened was we tuned up for two hours in 0:46:59.680 --> 0:47:02.920 front of them, all right, that's all we could do. 0:47:04.320 --> 0:47:07.560 But they didn't seem the mind. They were just like 0:47:07.719 --> 0:47:09.880 smiling and listening and they must have went back and 0:47:09.920 --> 0:47:13.880 said they're good, but I think they don't remember anything 0:47:13.880 --> 0:47:18.040 about it. So we all went out of London and 0:47:18.080 --> 0:47:20.840 the next thing we knew we were signed by Chris 0:47:20.880 --> 0:47:26.680 Blackwell Island Music. And then suddenly about honestly, about three 0:47:26.719 --> 0:47:29.480 weeks later, we were signed to Rocket Records and we 0:47:29.480 --> 0:47:33.200 were told we're going to get this what's called an advance, 0:47:33.320 --> 0:47:34.960 and we're going to go on to studio and make 0:47:35.000 --> 0:47:37.960 an album. And when we went into Rocket Records, it 0:47:38.080 --> 0:47:41.160 was like walking into a very expensive perfumer. You know, 0:47:41.920 --> 0:47:47.080 Elton had now been quite successful and everything was you know, 0:47:47.280 --> 0:47:50.959 he was just giving everybody present. So the little kids 0:47:51.000 --> 0:47:55.520 working on receptions smelt fantastic and everybody had all the 0:47:55.880 --> 0:48:00.560 sofas were like luxurious velvet sofas, and we're from Sundland 0:48:00.600 --> 0:48:03.600 and went, fuck, you know, we've landed in like sort 0:48:03.640 --> 0:48:06.160 of like it's like Pinocchio in the Bad Boys Land, 0:48:06.200 --> 0:48:09.360 you know. So they gave us this money and of 0:48:09.480 --> 0:48:13.280 course we didn't understand anything. We've never had a manager. 0:48:13.440 --> 0:48:16.799 We didn't understand anything at all. So I bought four 0:48:16.880 --> 0:48:19.920 acoustic guitars on Denmark Street in a day, and one 0:48:20.040 --> 0:48:24.960 thousand capsules of mescaline and I think half a pound 0:48:25.960 --> 0:48:29.200 in wake. This is of hash like what you would 0:48:29.239 --> 0:48:34.680 call hasher but yeah, like solid that's in a day, right. 0:48:34.800 --> 0:48:40.800 So we had this rented house in Tottenham and we 0:48:40.960 --> 0:48:42.920 invited our friends down from some of them like hey, 0:48:43.120 --> 0:48:46.560 you know this is happening, you know. So they came 0:48:46.640 --> 0:48:53.560 down and everybody was like hallucinating, and I think I 0:48:55.080 --> 0:48:59.719 brought my girlfriend down, you know, she was only seventeen, 0:49:00.120 --> 0:49:02.800 was a nurse that had had been working at the 0:49:02.880 --> 0:49:06.360 same mental hospital that my mom was, and how we 0:49:06.480 --> 0:49:12.120 ended up getting married and eighteen who whoaa. And so 0:49:12.480 --> 0:49:16.440 when Rocket Records sent somebody around, I think it was 0:49:16.560 --> 0:49:20.320 Stuart Epps or Swepts. He used to call just knocking 0:49:20.360 --> 0:49:22.399 our daughter to see how we were doing with our 0:49:23.400 --> 0:49:27.120 demos for the record. I think he reported back like that, 0:49:27.840 --> 0:49:31.680 you know, we better help do something because there was 0:49:31.760 --> 0:49:35.000 just people lying around or reading the carpet, you know, 0:49:35.320 --> 0:49:40.120 like everything was just nuts. And so they went, oh God, 0:49:40.160 --> 0:49:42.080 if we'd better put some order into this. So they 0:49:42.160 --> 0:49:44.680 got a guy called Ian Matthews for me and Matthew's 0:49:44.719 --> 0:49:48.200 second comfort to go on the studio with us. But 0:49:49.120 --> 0:49:53.759 that day, for some reason, I decided and this is 0:49:53.960 --> 0:49:57.879 because honestly, well I'm talking about going really out there 0:49:57.960 --> 0:50:01.800 on hallucinogenics, not like today is awful mixed up terrible 0:50:01.960 --> 0:50:05.360 drugs that I would advise nobody to take. This was 0:50:05.520 --> 0:50:08.680 like pure you know, ousley lsd on blotting paper and 0:50:08.760 --> 0:50:12.840 stuff like that. That. Um. I don't even know how 0:50:12.920 --> 0:50:16.239 we got to the studio, but I had somehow had 0:50:16.320 --> 0:50:20.279 an upside down paintbrush on and a kilt so it 0:50:20.320 --> 0:50:24.200 looked like a sporn, you know, that paintbrush, and and 0:50:24.320 --> 0:50:28.640 a tamas shanty like a hat, and a whole robe 0:50:28.719 --> 0:50:32.920 with like things and I couldn't play, you know, probably 0:50:33.280 --> 0:50:38.840 or anything. And there was the teacher who was a 0:50:38.920 --> 0:50:40.520 bit older than us. He was the only one that 0:50:40.719 --> 0:50:43.120 could drive and was saying I think he was pulling 0:50:43.200 --> 0:50:46.480 his hair out, and this guy Ian Matthews gave up 0:50:46.640 --> 0:50:51.360 after a day. He's just gonna no chance, right. But 0:50:52.000 --> 0:50:54.680 eventually I think it took us about a year and 0:50:54.760 --> 0:50:58.480 we ended up with Dave Mattis from fair Pubvention drumming. 0:50:58.560 --> 0:51:00.840 In a few we managed to a record, which was 0:51:00.880 --> 0:51:07.239 a miracle, but it it It didn't really, I don't 0:51:07.239 --> 0:51:09.800 think we actually understood that we've made a record or anything. 0:51:10.280 --> 0:51:12.640 And then we went on tour with Dalton supporting him, 0:51:12.719 --> 0:51:15.560 you know, in huge places. Now we've only played in 0:51:15.600 --> 0:51:18.600 a folk club now. The band was called Long Dancer. 0:51:19.239 --> 0:51:21.000 And the reason we were called Long Dancer was a 0:51:21.080 --> 0:51:25.400 mistake anyway, because Ian Hunter from What the Hoople, we 0:51:25.520 --> 0:51:28.720 were all sitting on the floor getting stoned in Ireland 0:51:28.840 --> 0:51:31.360 music because when you went to get your weekly wage 0:51:32.160 --> 0:51:34.000 from this lovely guy I want to say his name, 0:51:35.160 --> 0:51:39.520 had long blonde hair down to halfway down his before 0:51:39.600 --> 0:51:42.719 his waist. He always would ask us to go in 0:51:42.880 --> 0:51:45.040 one by one and then he he would put the 0:51:45.120 --> 0:51:48.800 money there and then there was grass there and like 0:51:49.280 --> 0:51:53.040 Speeder coake there and something else, and like you would say, like, 0:51:53.719 --> 0:51:55.360 so what do you want, Like you want like a 0:51:55.440 --> 0:51:58.880 hundred pounds, so you want fifty pound and some of 0:52:00.360 --> 0:52:04.160 and I remember my and now then wife at the 0:52:04.239 --> 0:52:09.279 time was like, now don't get this, get the h Yeah. 0:52:09.800 --> 0:52:13.319 But anyway, so we would go in this little room 0:52:13.360 --> 0:52:16.719 in Ireland music. Everybody went in there, Ian Hunter, everybody, 0:52:17.960 --> 0:52:20.920 you know, John Martin, click the money. Of course, We're 0:52:20.960 --> 0:52:24.799 going this little room and get completely stoned. And then 0:52:25.840 --> 0:52:27.920 we were trying to think of a band name and 0:52:28.160 --> 0:52:30.439 we were passing a joint around and there was Ian 0:52:30.560 --> 0:52:34.399 Hunter said that was a long dancer, meaning it made 0:52:34.440 --> 0:52:38.399 your lungs burn, and we all went, oh my god, 0:52:38.480 --> 0:52:40.759 that's such a great name. That's it, that's it, and 0:52:40.880 --> 0:52:43.920 he just looked confused. And the next thing when we 0:52:44.000 --> 0:52:46.560 saw him, we had the album and he was falling 0:52:46.600 --> 0:52:52.720 around laughing because we go long dancing anyway. Yeah, okay, 0:52:52.760 --> 0:52:55.320 So you went on the road with yeah, and we 0:52:55.520 --> 0:53:01.360 ended up, you know, in in playing large places in 0:53:01.880 --> 0:53:07.000 England and then cycle stadium things in Italy. Now this 0:53:07.200 --> 0:53:13.600 was very overwhelming for us. I don't remember much about 0:53:13.640 --> 0:53:16.319 it until mostly after the gigs. I remember we had 0:53:16.400 --> 0:53:19.440 to stay in our dress room for ages while the 0:53:19.600 --> 0:53:26.200 mob counted the money out with John John Reid before 0:53:26.239 --> 0:53:29.200 were lawd out. So it was like really annoying because 0:53:29.280 --> 0:53:31.880 like Nigel used to go mad because he was dripping 0:53:31.920 --> 0:53:34.640 in sweat and all this kind of stuff. Anyway, we're 0:53:34.680 --> 0:53:36.719 all on the bus with Elton, you see, it's just 0:53:36.880 --> 0:53:40.520 one bus, and then towards the end of the tour, 0:53:40.920 --> 0:53:42.719 it's a funny thing happened that Now I was in 0:53:42.840 --> 0:53:47.359 Elton's room and there was about thirty people in there, 0:53:47.719 --> 0:53:51.400 all different kinds. Some people looked like there were ballet dancers, 0:53:52.040 --> 0:53:56.400 guys and different characters. It looked like it was like 0:53:56.560 --> 0:54:00.920 a sort of weird movie. And I was just reading 0:54:01.080 --> 0:54:05.240 American comics that Elton had got me because my grandmother 0:54:05.320 --> 0:54:08.800 used to sell them. And he's very sort of generous, 0:54:08.840 --> 0:54:12.040 so like, oh yeah, you let these things here you go, 0:54:13.000 --> 0:54:15.640 And I think it was his favorite thing to do, 0:54:15.840 --> 0:54:22.000 was like give gifts away. So I eventually the party, 0:54:22.680 --> 0:54:24.120 I don't know if it was a party of whatever. 0:54:24.400 --> 0:54:26.239 It was the top of the Hilton Hotel in Rome, 0:54:26.360 --> 0:54:29.759 at the time, it looked like it was just sort 0:54:29.760 --> 0:54:32.279 of very strange. So I went in the bathroom when 0:54:32.320 --> 0:54:35.680 I came out with a kind of a towel on 0:54:35.840 --> 0:54:38.840 my head and a towel robe, and I did this 0:54:39.040 --> 0:54:43.200 kind of pirouetting kind of dance. And then I sat 0:54:43.239 --> 0:54:45.319 down again to reading my comics, and this guy said 0:54:45.320 --> 0:54:47.799 to me, Hey, kids, come over here. And he had 0:54:47.800 --> 0:54:50.320 a very strong Italian accent, and he had two of 0:54:50.360 --> 0:54:55.279 the most beautiful girls sitting with him, and and he goes, hey, 0:54:55.360 --> 0:54:58.480 I'm making a movie and that thing you just did 0:54:58.560 --> 0:55:02.080 that it was really interesting. I was wondering if you 0:55:02.160 --> 0:55:04.080 want to be in it, And he told me the 0:55:04.239 --> 0:55:07.879 name of the movie. And so I rang my then 0:55:08.160 --> 0:55:12.880 wife because about nineteen and she's had to answered the 0:55:12.920 --> 0:55:15.479 phone in the hallway of a house, you know, there's 0:55:15.560 --> 0:55:18.920 one phone, and I explained to her, look, I might 0:55:19.000 --> 0:55:21.360 have to stay on a bit longer to be in 0:55:21.440 --> 0:55:23.719 this movie. Called her, and she didn't say anything for 0:55:23.719 --> 0:55:29.160 a while, and then she just said get home anyway. 0:55:30.000 --> 0:55:33.279 Years later was my wife and Nuska i'm married to now. 0:55:34.239 --> 0:55:36.400 When we were first going out, I took her to 0:55:36.480 --> 0:55:39.680 a meal in Hotel cost in Paris, right, But sitting there, 0:55:40.239 --> 0:55:45.000 this guy kept staring at us and and then he 0:55:45.120 --> 0:55:48.719 came over and he said, hey, hey, aren't you that 0:55:48.960 --> 0:55:51.840 kid that was in the room without this and that? 0:55:52.080 --> 0:55:56.080 And I was like, I didn't really remember much about it. 0:55:56.880 --> 0:55:59.120 And my wife when he went away, said, she went 0:55:59.239 --> 0:56:04.640 blind me. You know Roman Polanski, And it was Roman 0:56:04.680 --> 0:56:07.600 Polanski who was in the room at the time, But 0:56:07.640 --> 0:56:10.680 I had no idea. So basically I'm describing a story 0:56:10.760 --> 0:56:14.440 of naivety and it's just like not knowing anything that 0:56:14.600 --> 0:56:18.080 was going to what are you star struck? I wasn't 0:56:18.280 --> 0:56:21.399 struck at all. I was just completely so you're fine, 0:56:21.440 --> 0:56:23.800 and this is Alton, you know, no big deal. I 0:56:23.920 --> 0:56:26.840 was just just I was completely unaware of what was 0:56:26.960 --> 0:56:28.960 going on. The only time I got a shot that's 0:56:28.960 --> 0:56:31.480 when we walked out on the stage at the Cycle Stadium. 0:56:33.239 --> 0:56:38.239 But for some reason, I've ould always been I don't know, 0:56:38.440 --> 0:56:43.880 interested in what's going on. And there was a lot 0:56:44.000 --> 0:56:47.960 going on basically that was interesting. And also you know, 0:56:48.040 --> 0:56:50.239 it was like really stoned and like it was all 0:56:50.960 --> 0:56:53.320 it was all very exciting the time, you know, like 0:56:53.520 --> 0:56:59.239 in music, and but then after that obviously was like 0:56:59.600 --> 0:57:05.719 HiT's sort of harsh reality, completely broke. I didn't know 0:57:05.840 --> 0:57:08.520 how to get a job or do anything apart from 0:57:08.560 --> 0:57:12.200 play the guitar. So this thing had started, and this 0:57:12.360 --> 0:57:15.120 guy up the road told me about it called Camden 0:57:15.239 --> 0:57:21.040 Lock Market, and so I don't know how I managed 0:57:21.080 --> 0:57:26.360 to do this, but I decided I would have sell records, 0:57:26.520 --> 0:57:29.720 vinyl records, because I knew about that. I can unlock market, 0:57:29.760 --> 0:57:31.919 but I didn't know how to get the records to sell. 0:57:32.880 --> 0:57:36.160 Then I met this other guy said well, somebody you'll 0:57:36.280 --> 0:57:40.200 give your records to sell, sailor return and I went 0:57:40.280 --> 0:57:45.120 down there and it was Trojan Records, right old amazing 0:57:45.720 --> 0:57:49.960 reggae records. And so I had all these Trojan records 0:57:50.800 --> 0:57:53.200 and I had a market. Of course, my my stall 0:57:53.320 --> 0:57:57.160 bit came surrounded by huge clouds of smoke. In course, 0:57:58.080 --> 0:58:05.480 Rastafarian London kind of immigrants too. I made great friends 0:58:05.560 --> 0:58:09.240 with and that led me on another musical trail where 0:58:09.520 --> 0:58:12.120 this guy came to the store and he was in 0:58:12.160 --> 0:58:15.360 a bank called Asabisa. And as I always had a 0:58:15.360 --> 0:58:18.360 little guitar behind my store, is that you said you 0:58:18.400 --> 0:58:21.880 should come around my apartment and I went there was 0:58:22.160 --> 0:58:26.480 all Africa and made amazing African food and they were 0:58:26.560 --> 0:58:28.960 playing these rhythms and I was trying to play, and 0:58:29.040 --> 0:58:31.560 then this guy showed me something, so I learned to 0:58:31.600 --> 0:58:35.880 play a little bit this criss cross rhythms on guitar, 0:58:36.440 --> 0:58:38.040 and I was just I was always on this sort 0:58:38.080 --> 0:58:44.080 of musical exploration journey. And and I went from there 0:58:45.880 --> 0:58:51.600 two somehow getting asked if i'd meet this girl who 0:58:51.720 --> 0:58:57.560 had formed a sort of feminist um kind of political 0:58:57.760 --> 0:59:03.320 activist group, theater group, and wanted somebody to work on 0:59:03.480 --> 0:59:07.520 with music, And so I went there and I just 0:59:07.800 --> 0:59:10.760 went bang the day, walked in, fell in love with 0:59:10.920 --> 0:59:14.920 the lead girl called Judith Alderson, and just to start 0:59:15.000 --> 0:59:23.040 for a second part, did it in with lawn Dancer. 0:59:25.080 --> 0:59:30.120 It's sort of imploded because one of the members, I think, 0:59:30.160 --> 0:59:34.320 had a bit of a nervous breakdown when we were 0:59:34.360 --> 0:59:38.600 in Germany and we were meant to launch the record 0:59:39.680 --> 0:59:42.080 and he was we although he's going to jump off 0:59:42.120 --> 0:59:44.840 the roof of the hotel, and it all became very 0:59:46.040 --> 0:59:49.920 traumatic and there was obviously we couldn't really carry on, 0:59:51.680 --> 0:59:53.640 and then we tried to do another album with it. 0:59:54.560 --> 0:59:57.680 A couple of other guys joined the band, but it 0:59:57.800 --> 1:00:00.480 wasn't the same thing. We went all from Sunderer anymore, 1:00:00.560 --> 1:00:03.960 and it was nobody had any sort of heart in it, 1:00:04.680 --> 1:00:08.760 and it's sort of just fizzled out. Okay, Rocket Record said, fine, 1:00:08.800 --> 1:00:11.120 you're done, We're moving on. I don't remember even talking 1:00:11.160 --> 1:00:15.640 about Rocket Records. I just remember the band actually breaking up. Okay, 1:00:15.720 --> 1:00:17.640 So now you go to this theater group, you fall 1:00:17.640 --> 1:00:22.320 in love with this woman. Yeah, And she was an 1:00:22.360 --> 1:00:27.800 extraordinary character and still is actually just still taught by 1:00:27.840 --> 1:00:34.600 her email and she had been through a lot of stuff, 1:00:34.640 --> 1:00:37.400 but basically, to cut a long story short, she had 1:00:37.720 --> 1:00:41.560 formed this theater group and she had a little girl 1:00:42.840 --> 1:00:47.920 as well, and I moved in with her and I 1:00:48.040 --> 1:00:51.760 had to tell my of course Sunderland, which didn't go 1:00:51.960 --> 1:00:54.040 down well. But I still taught to her as always 1:00:54.040 --> 1:01:01.360 still friends. So um. Then we went to WOD and 1:01:01.720 --> 1:01:07.440 I realized this was just a very unusual outfit and 1:01:07.880 --> 1:01:10.120 what she was saying and what they were putting across 1:01:10.200 --> 1:01:13.080 the music was it was kind of pre punk, but 1:01:13.160 --> 1:01:17.960 it was kind of punky cabaret, weird theater. And but 1:01:18.120 --> 1:01:21.280 then we had a massive car crash. A friend of 1:01:21.400 --> 1:01:25.840 mine had brought over to help drive a car, and Judith, 1:01:26.000 --> 1:01:29.440 her name was and the little girl was Amy was 1:01:29.560 --> 1:01:32.480 in the seat behind. I was in the front. I 1:01:32.640 --> 1:01:37.360 drove all the way from the sort of docking I 1:01:37.440 --> 1:01:42.360 think in Amsterdam or Rotterdam. We rented a car and 1:01:42.600 --> 1:01:44.680 then we drove all the way to a part of Germany. 1:01:45.200 --> 1:01:48.800 Then my friend took over from Sunderland. He'd never driven 1:01:48.840 --> 1:01:51.800 in Europe, and just pulled the wrong way somehow onto 1:01:51.840 --> 1:01:55.360 the order Barn at night. So those cars coming towards 1:01:55.480 --> 1:02:00.360 us about eighty and I just took a huge line 1:02:00.360 --> 1:02:05.680 of speed when we in the bathroom. So when we 1:02:05.800 --> 1:02:07.840 pulled out the wrong way, I think it was the 1:02:07.880 --> 1:02:14.040 only person for a split millisecond realized, yeah, we've turned 1:02:14.080 --> 1:02:16.320 the wrong way, right. I think I said it out loud, 1:02:18.040 --> 1:02:22.360 But did you know something? Yeah, I is so full 1:02:22.440 --> 1:02:26.840 of amazing sort of connections to your brain and neurons 1:02:27.000 --> 1:02:31.120 or that if your I sees that something terrible is 1:02:31.120 --> 1:02:34.440 going to happen, like an accident, it's immediately shuts down 1:02:34.520 --> 1:02:36.160 loads of the part of the brain, so you don't 1:02:36.160 --> 1:02:39.120 remember it. That's why most people come out of a 1:02:39.240 --> 1:02:42.040 car accident and I don't remember what happened. I just 1:02:42.120 --> 1:02:45.440 remember waking up in hospital. So I have a bit 1:02:45.520 --> 1:02:50.040 of that, but I do remember a few flashes of things. 1:02:51.120 --> 1:02:53.960 But um, yeah, it was a terrible accident. It was 1:02:54.000 --> 1:02:56.280 on the front page of the German newspaper, you know, 1:02:57.160 --> 1:03:03.760 and you uh, I mean, honestly, some of the things 1:03:03.880 --> 1:03:06.080 that sort of happened in your life that sort of 1:03:06.200 --> 1:03:08.080 come around again, like the one I said about Roman 1:03:08.120 --> 1:03:12.800 Polanski years later. Incredible because I didn't see the little 1:03:12.840 --> 1:03:14.760 girl Amy for years. You know, she was only about 1:03:14.800 --> 1:03:19.760 three until I was going to the little opening of 1:03:20.000 --> 1:03:25.520 my friends, tiny little restaurant in Camden Town and this 1:03:25.680 --> 1:03:29.120 girl came up with some canopies and she said, oh, listen, 1:03:29.480 --> 1:03:32.919 you won't remember me, but I remember you. And I said, 1:03:32.960 --> 1:03:35.200 oh no, I don't remember by now. I was like 1:03:35.880 --> 1:03:39.080 very lovely nineteen year old girls twenty one or something. 1:03:39.440 --> 1:03:41.760 Said I'm Amy. Remember I went flying out the car 1:03:41.880 --> 1:03:47.560 window in Germany. It's like fuck but m yeah, so 1:03:49.600 --> 1:03:53.680 so Jude and I. We sort of didn't break up. 1:03:53.760 --> 1:03:57.200 Was more was smashed up, you know, the car accident. 1:03:57.840 --> 1:04:00.400 Her leg was, her knee was broken, and like all 1:04:00.480 --> 1:04:03.680 these things happened, and I ended up in crouch End, 1:04:05.560 --> 1:04:09.120 and I used to live in crouch And before with 1:04:09.360 --> 1:04:11.920 my wife. But I've given now given that flat to 1:04:12.000 --> 1:04:16.280 my mother, and um. I was sort of sleeping on 1:04:16.360 --> 1:04:19.200 the floor of my mother's place, and I didn't realize 1:04:19.200 --> 1:04:22.480 I had punctured my lung. I thought I had terrible 1:04:22.520 --> 1:04:26.480 sort of like something wrong when I breathed in, and 1:04:27.400 --> 1:04:29.720 so I was a bit messed up. I went to 1:04:29.760 --> 1:04:31.960 the hospital and they did that awful thing when you 1:04:32.200 --> 1:04:35.280 lung collapses, where you have to be awake while the 1:04:35.360 --> 1:04:39.520 doctor pokes a needle into your chest well, but stops 1:04:39.560 --> 1:04:41.720 before it puncts us the lung and then sucks the 1:04:41.800 --> 1:04:46.320 air at so your lung can reinflate. Not the nicest 1:04:46.400 --> 1:04:51.720 of feelings, but so that sort of temporarily fixed it. 1:04:52.840 --> 1:04:55.040 And one day I was just walking up the road 1:04:55.920 --> 1:04:57.840 and crouching and the guy who used to be in 1:04:57.920 --> 1:05:01.080 the stall next to me at the mark Kid sort 1:05:01.120 --> 1:05:02.800 of knocked on the window of the inside of a 1:05:02.920 --> 1:05:08.680 shop and he was decorating it and he said, hey, hey, 1:05:09.240 --> 1:05:12.280 come in. So I went in. He said, nobody knows this, 1:05:12.440 --> 1:05:15.600 but I'm squatting in this shop and I've got the 1:05:15.640 --> 1:05:19.120 house upstairs, and he's calling the shop Spanish Moon after 1:05:19.160 --> 1:05:25.240 a little foot so and he said, hey, you know 1:05:25.480 --> 1:05:28.440 let's celebrate or something. So we had a bottle of 1:05:28.520 --> 1:05:31.280 Jack Daniels and we had a little glass, and he 1:05:31.400 --> 1:05:34.400 was sitting in the shop window talking about everything that 1:05:34.480 --> 1:05:37.600 had happened to him and to me, and he said, 1:05:37.680 --> 1:05:39.400 you never guess what. I met this girl the other 1:05:39.480 --> 1:05:43.360 day and she is working in this sort of like 1:05:45.040 --> 1:05:49.320 health food restaurant, and but she plays this weird old 1:05:49.400 --> 1:05:55.320 harmonium and sings a kind of a bit like Joni 1:05:55.400 --> 1:05:58.200 Mitchell kind of songs. Do you want to meet it? 1:05:58.400 --> 1:06:01.480 I think you would get away with I said, yeah, 1:06:01.560 --> 1:06:05.320 why not? So we drove up in his car, and 1:06:06.080 --> 1:06:08.080 at the time I think I had sort of like 1:06:09.640 --> 1:06:15.120 spiky turquoise hair and sort of you know, just look 1:06:15.200 --> 1:06:20.200 generally not right for the restaurant. So the manager wouldn't 1:06:20.240 --> 1:06:24.240 let us in. But so I kept sort of breathing 1:06:24.320 --> 1:06:27.919 on the window, and every time I saw the girl 1:06:27.920 --> 1:06:30.160 who I was right now, I love you backwards in 1:06:30.240 --> 1:06:32.600 the steam and all that stuff. And then the manager 1:06:32.720 --> 1:06:35.120 was going up to her obviously like like do you 1:06:35.240 --> 1:06:38.040 know these people? And so when she came out, it 1:06:38.200 --> 1:06:40.760 was Annie. Of course, when she came back, said what 1:06:40.840 --> 1:06:42.480 the hell are you doing? And I'm nearly getting the 1:06:42.560 --> 1:06:45.800 sack here and Paul says, oh, no, you should meet 1:06:45.880 --> 1:06:49.760 my friend Davey plays music too and everything, and we 1:06:49.840 --> 1:06:53.640 started talking. We actually moved in together that day. That 1:06:53.920 --> 1:06:57.240 day that day, yeah, we sort of, well you moved 1:06:57.240 --> 1:06:59.840 into her apartment. This is about six o'clock and he 1:07:00.000 --> 1:07:02.720 and well, she had a tiny room slight of this really, 1:07:02.840 --> 1:07:05.800 with a harmonium in it, in a single bed, and 1:07:05.960 --> 1:07:11.040 we moved in there. And then the next day we 1:07:11.240 --> 1:07:16.760 are she was she ors was a bit a little anxious, 1:07:16.920 --> 1:07:19.800 kind of panic attack, and I said, well, let's go 1:07:19.840 --> 1:07:22.680 and see my mom, right, So we went in a 1:07:22.720 --> 1:07:26.440 double decker bus to Crouch End and my mom was 1:07:26.560 --> 1:07:29.480 torn to her and she's feeling a bit better. And 1:07:29.560 --> 1:07:34.000 then my mom says, but actually I'm going somewhere else 1:07:34.560 --> 1:07:38.000 for a week where you can stay here. So we 1:07:38.120 --> 1:07:41.240 stayed there in my mom's flat, which is in Creach End, 1:07:41.400 --> 1:07:44.000 And then we realized Paul had got all the house 1:07:44.080 --> 1:07:48.000 above the record store. So we went to see Paul 1:07:48.080 --> 1:07:50.120 and said he it's all right if we like live 1:07:50.280 --> 1:07:52.880 upstairs there. He says, well, I'm going to live upstairs 1:07:52.920 --> 1:07:55.120 there as well, but it's got three floors. So we did, 1:07:55.760 --> 1:07:59.840 and this became like a landmark in creat end. We 1:08:00.120 --> 1:08:03.240 just an odd place. It's full of musicians and artists, 1:08:03.320 --> 1:08:06.760 and it was journalists they you know, Julie Burchill and 1:08:06.840 --> 1:08:09.480 all these people. All she would actually come in and 1:08:09.600 --> 1:08:13.880 sell all the records being given to review, and like 1:08:14.960 --> 1:08:17.960 it was just you know, Adamant was at art college 1:08:18.040 --> 1:08:21.479 up the road in Genesis pr Age and Chris and 1:08:21.680 --> 1:08:23.439 so the first track with Annie and I released was 1:08:23.520 --> 1:08:25.960 actually me and her and Chrissie Cozy Fanny t d 1:08:26.160 --> 1:08:29.599 from Robbing Gristle. So we became in world and all 1:08:29.640 --> 1:08:32.720 this I kind of art cred there and we were 1:08:32.960 --> 1:08:36.040 really happy because it was like but we didn't write 1:08:36.040 --> 1:08:42.320 any songs together or separately for the whole time we 1:08:42.439 --> 1:08:45.920 lived there. We just were in another band with Pete 1:08:46.000 --> 1:08:50.320 Combs called the Tourists, and we played all his songs. Okay, 1:08:50.640 --> 1:08:53.640 Pete Tourists had a deal with Virgin Did they have 1:08:53.840 --> 1:08:57.960 that deal before you got in the beginning around? It 1:08:58.120 --> 1:09:00.800 wasn't with Virtune. Maybe it came out through that later 1:09:00.960 --> 1:09:04.960 here or something, but Tourists, we haven't. We signed with 1:09:05.080 --> 1:09:09.040 a tiny label which was a folk label called Transatlantic, 1:09:09.800 --> 1:09:13.160 which was Fairport, conventional and then it was called Logo, 1:09:13.439 --> 1:09:16.040 changed its name and then they sold themselves to our Cia. 1:09:17.320 --> 1:09:22.560 So we ended up being you know, inherited twice and 1:09:22.800 --> 1:09:27.360 we had some kind of success, but it was really 1:09:27.520 --> 1:09:30.000 not from what we wanted. We just lacking about in 1:09:30.040 --> 1:09:32.880 the studio and did a version of I Only Want 1:09:32.880 --> 1:09:35.840 to be with You only speeded up with like ricking 1:09:35.880 --> 1:09:39.240 back a twelve string and you know, the birds meats 1:09:39.280 --> 1:09:42.680 punk kind of thing, and that was a huge hit 1:09:42.840 --> 1:09:46.280 in Britain and Australia and some places. Did you make 1:09:46.280 --> 1:09:49.760 any money? Well, we sold a lot of albums and 1:09:50.920 --> 1:09:52.639 but you know that didn't mean to say you made 1:09:52.640 --> 1:09:55.360 any money. Still, I'm asking you what are you living on? 1:09:56.000 --> 1:09:58.439 We we well we lived together, which saved a lot 1:09:58.479 --> 1:10:01.560 of money when we were on tour and everything. And 1:10:03.040 --> 1:10:05.559 you know we had a little wage through the management 1:10:05.640 --> 1:10:09.920 company who got the money and which is years later 1:10:10.040 --> 1:10:12.480 my dad, you see, who trained to be an accountant. 1:10:12.880 --> 1:10:15.760 They did the best advice ever when Annie and I 1:10:15.960 --> 1:10:20.840 got a contract as rhythmics, and he said that I've 1:10:20.880 --> 1:10:24.880 read the whole bloody thing. He said, it's all gibberish 1:10:25.880 --> 1:10:28.160 and I can't make head and the tail of any 1:10:28.240 --> 1:10:31.360 of it. Apart from I advise you one thing, like 1:10:32.080 --> 1:10:35.880 they give you the money and then you pay the managers. Really, yeah, 1:10:36.800 --> 1:10:40.200 that's pretty smart. Yeah, and so we did. So we 1:10:40.320 --> 1:10:43.960 formed a company called d n A Limited David Annie, 1:10:44.160 --> 1:10:46.920 and the money went there and then we paid people 1:10:47.040 --> 1:10:49.599 from there. Okay, so you're on the road with tours, 1:10:49.680 --> 1:10:52.599 you go through multiple ownerships of the label, but you're 1:10:52.640 --> 1:10:56.639 not doing your original material. Now. We we weren't playing 1:10:56.920 --> 1:10:59.880 me and Annie's songs. We were doing Peter songs. He 1:11:00.040 --> 1:11:02.880 was a great songwriter and we we felt actually that 1:11:02.960 --> 1:11:05.920 we couldn't even try to compete with His songwriting was 1:11:06.040 --> 1:11:10.920 very good. But Pete was you know, very addictive personality 1:11:11.080 --> 1:11:14.439 in every way, and it became worse and worse, you know, 1:11:14.640 --> 1:11:17.880 to heroin and he couldn't get hero and he had 1:11:17.880 --> 1:11:20.439 to drink a bottle of like jin sing whiskey or something. 1:11:20.479 --> 1:11:23.720 It was like really sad seeing it go down, but 1:11:23.920 --> 1:11:28.000 we realized just couldn't carry on. We're in Australia. Pete 1:11:28.000 --> 1:11:33.160 had got lost and you know, you kind of went 1:11:33.280 --> 1:11:36.439 somewhere looking for heroin and oh deed and that to 1:11:36.640 --> 1:11:40.000 manager had to find him and and it was it 1:11:40.120 --> 1:11:43.479 was just obvious that we couldn't carry on. So on 1:11:43.600 --> 1:11:47.600 the way back from Australia on a plane, Annie and 1:11:47.640 --> 1:11:50.280 I was sitting next to each other, and we've been 1:11:50.360 --> 1:11:54.560 through all of this stuff, and on the plane we 1:11:54.640 --> 1:12:00.080 said maybe we should sort of live separately, right, And 1:12:00.560 --> 1:12:02.719 we both just decided it and sort of went to sleep. 1:12:03.479 --> 1:12:05.600 And then when we got there, we think, well, to 1:12:05.720 --> 1:12:07.439 know how we do this because we haven't got any money. 1:12:08.560 --> 1:12:11.439 The reason you want to live separately is, well, we've 1:12:11.560 --> 1:12:15.000 been like three or four years not only living together, 1:12:15.120 --> 1:12:17.800 but being going around and round in the van like 1:12:17.960 --> 1:12:22.320 it was just seven. We thought we'd caught court Nutcle 1:12:22.520 --> 1:12:26.200 had something called folly at which is like when two 1:12:26.280 --> 1:12:29.920 people are together all the time constantly. And when we 1:12:30.000 --> 1:12:31.880 went with the bandit se would just be us two 1:12:32.000 --> 1:12:35.400 was nobody else's company because we liked it. But you 1:12:35.560 --> 1:12:38.920 can become sort of a little bit sort of on 1:12:39.080 --> 1:12:45.200 the outside of society or reality or whatever. You're in 1:12:45.280 --> 1:12:48.360 your own world, right, So we decided to live separately, 1:12:49.439 --> 1:12:53.439 but the romance was going to continue. Well, this is 1:12:53.560 --> 1:12:56.800 when it gets complicated because and he's separately but and 1:12:56.880 --> 1:13:00.240 he then just moved upstairs, right, so they and she 1:13:00.360 --> 1:13:03.639 was upstairs and then that didn't really work, so she said, 1:13:03.760 --> 1:13:06.800 moved to the end of the street. And then this 1:13:07.000 --> 1:13:10.360 went on throughout the eighties. I bought a house when 1:13:10.439 --> 1:13:11.920 we got some money. She bought a house in the 1:13:12.040 --> 1:13:16.479 next street. Because we became rhythmics. See, so we would together, 1:13:17.240 --> 1:13:21.759 stuck together like glue. So even if we were separate, 1:13:22.479 --> 1:13:26.320 as you know, a couple, we were every day together, 1:13:26.680 --> 1:13:31.320 like working on our staff and touring. And how long 1:13:31.479 --> 1:13:34.960 did it maintain a romance? Well, you know, like all 1:13:35.040 --> 1:13:41.040 of those complicated breaking up on and it just sort 1:13:41.040 --> 1:13:44.439 of it was like a sort of slow motion car crash, 1:13:45.120 --> 1:13:47.920 but at the same time, unlike a lot of people 1:13:48.040 --> 1:13:51.519 might have experienced, it was a fast motion rocket taking 1:13:51.600 --> 1:13:55.880 off because as we were slow motion car crash in 1:13:55.920 --> 1:14:01.439 the relationship, we were sort of becoming really successful in factually, 1:14:01.880 --> 1:14:06.559 in fact because of a number of reasons. Some guy 1:14:07.400 --> 1:14:12.080 playing our imported record in Cleveland on the radio, playing 1:14:12.120 --> 1:14:18.240 Sweet Dreams, and because MTV had just started, and I'd 1:14:18.479 --> 1:14:22.640 always been obsessed with filming stuff, and we've made this 1:14:22.840 --> 1:14:26.000 very strange Sweet Dreams video that the record company couldn't understand, 1:14:26.920 --> 1:14:30.240 which i'd, like, you know, obviously took lots of influence 1:14:30.280 --> 1:14:34.920 from French French filmmakers and surrealism and stuff like that. 1:14:35.720 --> 1:14:37.439 We had one up our sleeve, and then we had 1:14:37.479 --> 1:14:39.960 another one up our sleeve and another one up our sleeve. 1:14:40.080 --> 1:14:44.479 So when in the garden, which was an amazing experience 1:14:44.520 --> 1:14:48.439 with Connie Plank, you know, he taught me how to 1:14:49.520 --> 1:14:52.240 ignore everything about recording because I didn't like the sound 1:14:52.320 --> 1:14:55.639 of the other records. Because those days you weren't allowed 1:14:55.680 --> 1:14:57.719 to go to the mixing desk. It was the produce 1:14:57.800 --> 1:15:01.720 of the engineer. You sit at the back and if 1:15:01.760 --> 1:15:03.360 you go near any of the knobs like no, no, 1:15:03.479 --> 1:15:06.400 don't touch that, you know, And Connie Plank taught me 1:15:06.479 --> 1:15:08.400 you are you can do whatever you want, like turn 1:15:08.520 --> 1:15:10.680 that up and make the whole base drum distorted, and 1:15:10.720 --> 1:15:13.960 see what that sounds like, put the microphone down this well, 1:15:14.120 --> 1:15:18.400 and all this kind of stuff. And so that would 1:15:18.439 --> 1:15:22.520 have led me to want to have to record ourselves. 1:15:23.360 --> 1:15:27.840 And when I just made your operation because my lung 1:15:27.960 --> 1:15:31.680 kept collapsing. And he went to Scotland and while she 1:15:31.840 --> 1:15:36.400 was away, I bought first little drum machine, tiny little thing. 1:15:36.520 --> 1:15:39.880 You know, you couldn't actually doing much, You couldn't tell 1:15:39.920 --> 1:15:42.400 it to do certain things that would just if you 1:15:42.600 --> 1:15:45.320 press that button and that button it did that. And 1:15:46.479 --> 1:15:50.960 and a little synthesietic called the Wasp. It was plastic thing. 1:15:52.040 --> 1:15:56.000 And I had a thing called the Porter Studio was 1:15:56.080 --> 1:16:00.920 like a cassette with four tracks, and I I started 1:16:01.040 --> 1:16:05.360 making these tracks that are some of them are half 1:16:05.400 --> 1:16:07.840 of the Sweet Dreams album that we just transferred to 1:16:07.920 --> 1:16:10.639 an eight track and I played some of them down 1:16:10.680 --> 1:16:13.760 the phone to Annie at her parents house and she 1:16:13.960 --> 1:16:17.400 was like, woh god, that's really interesting. And I was 1:16:17.439 --> 1:16:20.720 talking about like we'd make this like electronic music, but 1:16:21.280 --> 1:16:24.360 Annie sang soulfully on top of it as a juxtaposition. 1:16:25.520 --> 1:16:28.960 So we started doing these experiments. But in the in 1:16:28.960 --> 1:16:30.920 the middle of Sweet Dreams, how Money would get so 1:16:31.080 --> 1:16:34.000 depressed or see we are a couple that had broken up, 1:16:34.200 --> 1:16:37.559 but like we're making this music, but what are we doing? 1:16:39.920 --> 1:16:42.160 Had nothing to do with any music that was going on. 1:16:43.160 --> 1:16:46.800 We're all going to die kind of, you know. Unfortunately 1:16:46.840 --> 1:16:53.840 I've been there, yeah and so, and people would come 1:16:53.880 --> 1:16:56.000 and visit us, like I'd become really good friends with 1:16:56.080 --> 1:16:59.080 Claim Burke from Blondie and we were in a picture 1:16:59.120 --> 1:17:03.519 framing factor, which was the top of these stairs, but 1:17:03.680 --> 1:17:08.679 underneath that, we're making that noise like and claim we'd 1:17:08.720 --> 1:17:11.000 come and see us. So Frank confront from Blondie and 1:17:11.479 --> 1:17:14.519 what are you guys doing. We're making a record on 1:17:14.640 --> 1:17:18.800 this like eight rap tape recorder and the eaves of 1:17:18.880 --> 1:17:20.599 the pit you had to bend down the whole time 1:17:20.600 --> 1:17:22.640 because it was just like the very eaves of it 1:17:23.640 --> 1:17:25.680 and an old building that had probably been there three 1:17:25.760 --> 1:17:30.719 hundred years or something. And tell me if I'm wandering 1:17:30.760 --> 1:17:36.439 into sunderland speak, you know, because I'm trying to keep 1:17:36.479 --> 1:17:41.160 a grip on it. But so we explained, you know, 1:17:41.720 --> 1:17:43.960 this is the record. We're making a record, And and 1:17:46.040 --> 1:17:50.080 then when we delivered the record one, how did you 1:17:50.120 --> 1:17:54.080 get a deal? We were we were already signed, you see, 1:17:54.240 --> 1:18:00.679 because when the tourists broke up, we had been signed 1:18:00.720 --> 1:18:04.639 individually as well. But then it was like, but we're 1:18:04.680 --> 1:18:07.559 going to be a duo called Rhythmics, And they thought 1:18:07.560 --> 1:18:11.240 about it for ages and said, okay, well you can 1:18:11.320 --> 1:18:15.720 do an album this very low budget. So we went 1:18:15.800 --> 1:18:19.960 to Connie Plank in Germany and that wasn't very successful. 1:18:20.479 --> 1:18:22.800 So at that point I think they're thinking about dropping us. 1:18:22.880 --> 1:18:27.679 But there was a lovely guy young junior an arsenal 1:18:27.800 --> 1:18:31.720 called Jack Stevens, and he would visit that sneath. That 1:18:31.840 --> 1:18:35.479 was amazing what we're doing. And of course, just before 1:18:35.520 --> 1:18:38.360 we get there, why was it the rhythmics, teld us 1:18:38.400 --> 1:18:46.960 the story rhythmics was because, um, the thing is how 1:18:47.080 --> 1:18:49.759 I explained it to the record company is quite funny. 1:18:49.840 --> 1:18:54.880 But basically we liked the word that EU are at 1:18:54.880 --> 1:18:58.320 the beginning for Europe and rhythm. But there's another thing 1:18:58.400 --> 1:19:03.120 called rhythmic, created Emil Jack del Crows, which is about 1:19:03.200 --> 1:19:08.120 the study of rhythm and music and thought patterns to help. 1:19:08.840 --> 1:19:12.160 It's used often in schools at Rudolph Steiner schools and whatever. 1:19:13.439 --> 1:19:19.360 It just is a way of like understanding, um, your 1:19:19.400 --> 1:19:23.679 body and you know, and so well it's more than actually, 1:19:23.760 --> 1:19:26.360 but we spent another three hours talking about it. But 1:19:26.760 --> 1:19:28.839 I had to go in and tell the record label 1:19:29.479 --> 1:19:31.840 we were going to be called rhythmics, which was a 1:19:31.920 --> 1:19:35.080 difficult tongue twister, and when you looked at it written down, 1:19:35.240 --> 1:19:40.439 it was like, yeah, So I always like to do, like, 1:19:40.680 --> 1:19:43.840 you know, if it's going to be something I'm going 1:19:43.880 --> 1:19:48.120 to explain when I'm pitching a TV company whatever. It's 1:19:48.360 --> 1:19:52.880 always the element of surprise, right, So I remember just 1:19:53.040 --> 1:19:58.479 jumping from a standing position which I practiced onto a desk, right, 1:19:58.960 --> 1:20:03.000 so like just doing one jump and then I said Eurythmics, 1:20:05.000 --> 1:20:08.479 all the one go and it was complete silences. About 1:20:08.560 --> 1:20:12.200 three of the record label left and they said well, 1:20:12.280 --> 1:20:15.519 and one guy said, isn't that like something you have 1:20:15.720 --> 1:20:19.640 to get treated for? And it was like nonspecific eurothritis 1:20:19.760 --> 1:20:23.240 or something and I was like now, and I explained, 1:20:24.080 --> 1:20:28.400 and then we don't know about this, but anyway, we 1:20:28.560 --> 1:20:32.280 got away with it. A Sweet Dreams album came out, 1:20:32.360 --> 1:20:38.200 and then yeah, Sweet Dreams, what's the development story there? Well, 1:20:38.760 --> 1:20:44.599 we were making an album that's quite quirky, using limited, 1:20:45.240 --> 1:20:50.320 very limited equipment. Because I went to the bank manager 1:20:50.680 --> 1:20:54.240 who had been the bank all during the tourists and 1:20:54.280 --> 1:20:56.360 and he was really nervous about this, but I was 1:20:56.680 --> 1:21:01.880 convinced again with my surprise actions using my I ked 1:21:02.160 --> 1:21:06.320 and Haiku mixed together or whatever, that I would be 1:21:06.479 --> 1:21:08.800 able to get him to lend us some money to 1:21:08.920 --> 1:21:12.560 buy the exact amount of equipment that this guy we 1:21:12.680 --> 1:21:16.000 knew called Adam Williams has sort of written out and 1:21:16.040 --> 1:21:19.479 we've got pictures cut out of catalogs. If we needed 1:21:19.960 --> 1:21:27.040 this desk, secondhand, this secondhand Clark Technique reverb, this bell 1:21:27.200 --> 1:21:30.960 noise reduction system, and this one really important thing a 1:21:31.080 --> 1:21:34.840 space echo. Right for the space echo, because we wanted 1:21:34.880 --> 1:21:37.720 to make like dub sounds and all that stuff. We 1:21:37.800 --> 1:21:39.920 had everything written out and the wires came when it 1:21:40.000 --> 1:21:42.200 came the fourth thousand and eight hunderd pounds or something, 1:21:42.280 --> 1:21:45.320 and we could make a record on it. So we 1:21:45.439 --> 1:21:48.799 went there and he sat silent in the bank manager's 1:21:48.880 --> 1:21:51.719 office and I explained, and I put all the pictures 1:21:51.720 --> 1:21:55.160 out and I said, you're seen in the past. We've 1:21:55.240 --> 1:21:58.320 made an album and we had to pay all these people, 1:21:58.760 --> 1:22:02.680 and we couldn't recoup really because the studio was this 1:22:02.960 --> 1:22:05.960 and producing the engineer. But now I'm going to make 1:22:06.000 --> 1:22:09.719 the record. We have the equipment, and if the record 1:22:09.800 --> 1:22:13.960 only sells this amount, we can make another record on it. 1:22:14.160 --> 1:22:16.519 And now it doesn't cost us anything. And he was 1:22:16.560 --> 1:22:19.760 listening the whole time and then he and he says, 1:22:20.120 --> 1:22:23.320 you know what, that's a very good idea, and he 1:22:23.479 --> 1:22:27.639 gave us five thousand pounds. The only problem was when 1:22:27.680 --> 1:22:32.720 we stepped outside the bank, this friend of mine who 1:22:32.920 --> 1:22:38.600 was called Ashley Cohen, who was a situationalist artist, and 1:22:38.720 --> 1:22:43.639 unfortunately his situations art at that moment was he had 1:22:43.680 --> 1:22:45.960 a mini full of cats and he would stop it 1:22:46.680 --> 1:22:51.519 and hand people cats and then take polaroids. Right. He 1:22:51.600 --> 1:22:53.360 had another terrible one needs to do is to pick 1:22:53.439 --> 1:22:55.360 people up at a bus stop and say, oh, I'm 1:22:55.400 --> 1:22:57.200 going your way, and then so I'm just could have 1:22:57.240 --> 1:22:59.920 stopped at my friend's house and then he would take 1:23:00.000 --> 1:23:02.120 them in. Then he would sneak out and leave them there, 1:23:02.880 --> 1:23:06.559 and that was his art form. Well, there's a picture 1:23:06.840 --> 1:23:09.160 of the bank manager with like a cat on his 1:23:09.280 --> 1:23:12.240 head and me and Annie with cats, and I can 1:23:12.280 --> 1:23:15.040 see it about manager's face is like, what did I 1:23:15.240 --> 1:23:19.320 do right? Right? But then afterwards we gave him all 1:23:19.400 --> 1:23:24.000 these gold albums and platinum albums and but yeah, so 1:23:27.160 --> 1:23:31.240 in the picture faming factory. But then we couldn't afford 1:23:31.280 --> 1:23:35.680 the rent anymore. So, um, the guy who owned it 1:23:35.800 --> 1:23:39.000 said you can't be here anymore. And we were sneakily 1:23:39.080 --> 1:23:42.240 borrowing his synthesizers sometimes because he would go up there 1:23:42.280 --> 1:23:46.640 to practice. So then I was, you know, we just 1:23:46.720 --> 1:23:49.040 didn't know what to do. We were about halfway through 1:23:49.160 --> 1:23:54.519 making a record in inverted Commas, and I was walking 1:23:54.600 --> 1:23:56.120 up the street and crow chain and there was a 1:23:56.240 --> 1:24:00.639 huge church and this guy opened the door with gray 1:24:00.760 --> 1:24:03.519 hair and a weird beard. He looked like a wizard 1:24:04.160 --> 1:24:08.680 and he said he you like. He said, are you 1:24:08.760 --> 1:24:14.960 looking for somewhere? I was like yeah, I said, I'm 1:24:15.000 --> 1:24:17.720 looking for somewhere to make a record. He says, come 1:24:17.760 --> 1:24:20.840 in here, and he showed me this sort of room. 1:24:21.160 --> 1:24:25.000 There was the vestry of a church. He said, well, 1:24:25.040 --> 1:24:28.880 what about this room? I said, well, yeah, that would 1:24:28.880 --> 1:24:31.320 be great. I said how much is it? Says no, no, no, 1:24:32.320 --> 1:24:34.960 you can have it. And I was like, this is 1:24:35.160 --> 1:24:36.800 So I went and told Danny and she was like, 1:24:37.720 --> 1:24:43.040 this sounds really weird. So we went there and the 1:24:43.160 --> 1:24:48.200 guy and his partner we're really sweet, but really odd couple. 1:24:49.840 --> 1:24:52.960 I think obviously a gay couple that they've had to hide, 1:24:53.520 --> 1:24:56.719 you know, for years. They were in by then sixties 1:24:56.840 --> 1:25:00.280 or whatever. And in the end they helped Bill there's 1:25:00.280 --> 1:25:03.640 another studio for us upstairs when we got successful, you know, 1:25:04.120 --> 1:25:06.600 by night with their lights that they used to do 1:25:06.760 --> 1:25:10.760 their animated feature films. And then the end he said, look, 1:25:10.960 --> 1:25:14.280 we want to move now to Florida somewhere to retire. 1:25:15.080 --> 1:25:17.479 Do you want to buy office, and in the end 1:25:17.560 --> 1:25:21.599 we bought that church and then had then I bought 1:25:21.600 --> 1:25:23.880 it off any later, and then I had it for years, 1:25:23.920 --> 1:25:26.800 and then I sold it to David Gray, and then 1:25:26.840 --> 1:25:29.880 when he was going to make it possibly flats the 1:25:29.920 --> 1:25:33.920 whole of cretch and was up in arms. But Paul 1:25:33.960 --> 1:25:37.920 Etwith came to the rescue and Paul up within great 1:25:37.960 --> 1:25:41.040 producer has it and been there a few games with 1:25:41.200 --> 1:25:44.720 Paul and it's still the church there where we made 1:25:44.840 --> 1:25:48.840 so much stuff. Okay, so Sweet Dreams, how do you 1:25:48.920 --> 1:25:52.720 write it? This is like me being an interviewed is 1:25:52.760 --> 1:25:55.479 like one of them stories where the narrative gets so 1:25:55.800 --> 1:25:58.800 lost in so many different I'm totally a control of 1:25:58.840 --> 1:26:02.559 the narrative. Are good, okay, but I'm ultimately going here, Okay, 1:26:05.280 --> 1:26:06.840 do it? Yeah, I'm just don't know what. I don't 1:26:06.840 --> 1:26:09.920 know when Sweet Dreams is complete, because I know you've 1:26:10.040 --> 1:26:11.800 probably told the story of how you wrote or whatever. 1:26:12.320 --> 1:26:16.080 Do you know it's going to be a monster here now? 1:26:16.360 --> 1:26:18.560 We have no idea. In fact, the record label in 1:26:19.680 --> 1:26:23.960 um London released I think two or three singles from 1:26:24.000 --> 1:26:27.479 the album before that because they had In fact, they 1:26:27.520 --> 1:26:31.679 said to me at one point, look because I had inkling. 1:26:31.880 --> 1:26:34.280 Annie and I were very excited when we first recorded it, 1:26:35.280 --> 1:26:38.320 and then we were you know, deflated when nobody seemed 1:26:38.320 --> 1:26:40.680 to have ary with us. But I had inkling it 1:26:40.800 --> 1:26:44.160 was something special. But I actually remember being told, look, 1:26:45.200 --> 1:26:49.960 this song has no beginning, middle chorus and whatever. It's 1:26:50.080 --> 1:26:53.479 just and I was kind of thing yourself, well, that's 1:26:53.560 --> 1:26:57.840 kind of what's good, that's exactly. But but it was 1:26:57.960 --> 1:27:01.679 this guy in a radio station in Cleveland got an import. 1:27:02.760 --> 1:27:06.000 He kept playing that there was no action in the UK. 1:27:06.960 --> 1:27:09.280 No action in the UK. I love as the Stranger, 1:27:09.439 --> 1:27:14.360 like barely graced the top seventy five or something. This 1:27:14.520 --> 1:27:18.479 guy kept ringing up our c in New York and saying, look, 1:27:19.560 --> 1:27:23.760 you've got this band called the earth Mix And every 1:27:23.840 --> 1:27:26.880 time I'm playing this song sweet Dreams on this important, 1:27:27.479 --> 1:27:30.640 it's just going bonkers. All the phones are ringing. And 1:27:30.720 --> 1:27:32.479 they kept saying that we don't have a band called 1:27:32.520 --> 1:27:35.679 the Earthquakes, so we don't know what you're talking about. 1:27:36.439 --> 1:27:39.599 And eventually somebody realized he meant Rhythmics, which was signed 1:27:39.600 --> 1:27:45.160 in England, and they hurriedly got that out and sort 1:27:45.200 --> 1:27:49.040 of managed to service radio stations, and so it was 1:27:49.120 --> 1:27:54.800 a very quick rise from that guy playing it to 1:27:54.920 --> 1:27:59.280 sort of going. And at the same time, Sweet Dreams 1:27:59.640 --> 1:28:02.560 was on a video so you could actually deliver a 1:28:02.640 --> 1:28:07.000 video to MTV immediately. And we went to America to 1:28:07.080 --> 1:28:09.280 play live. And by the time I saw you at 1:28:09.280 --> 1:28:11.800 the Palace all right, well, by the time we got 1:28:11.920 --> 1:28:16.960 from New York to l A, it was already gigantic. 1:28:17.040 --> 1:28:22.120 And then we were in a Japanese hotel room. It's 1:28:22.160 --> 1:28:25.360 like a Japanese hotel in San Francisco. I can't remember 1:28:25.360 --> 1:28:30.479 what it was cool anyway, um, I might have imagined 1:28:30.520 --> 1:28:33.080 it's a Japanese hotel. It had a Japanese restaurant in it. 1:28:33.760 --> 1:28:37.960 But somebody the two manager said Annie, you and Dave 1:28:38.040 --> 1:28:40.479 have got to go into one room because the Rector 1:28:40.760 --> 1:28:45.160 label the phone you up. And we sat there and 1:28:45.240 --> 1:28:48.760 the phone rang, and somebody from the label said, I 1:28:48.880 --> 1:28:50.400 just want to let you know you're going to be 1:28:50.960 --> 1:28:55.720 number one right in a minute or something right, And 1:28:55.840 --> 1:28:58.720 we were like jumping around going away, and then we 1:28:58.800 --> 1:29:02.000 looked out the window and where were they were. Everything 1:29:02.120 --> 1:29:06.519 just looked exactly the same. God a great story, and 1:29:06.640 --> 1:29:11.160 we like, what do we do? We just weren't quite 1:29:11.200 --> 1:29:14.160 sure what to do, you know, because we talked about 1:29:14.160 --> 1:29:16.280 a couple that it's not a couple. But now we've 1:29:16.320 --> 1:29:19.519 been through all this stuff and when number one in America, 1:29:19.520 --> 1:29:22.160 we just didn't understand what that meant. We didn't understand 1:29:22.200 --> 1:29:26.280 the normally the size of America. All we knew is 1:29:26.320 --> 1:29:28.720 when we got to the gig right then it had 1:29:29.120 --> 1:29:32.240 come out. There was lines around the block. Was the 1:29:32.360 --> 1:29:36.640 great San Francisco Famous ball Room whatever it's called the 1:29:36.800 --> 1:29:41.599 film more film or yeah, the film are East right 1:29:42.120 --> 1:29:45.160 now the East is in New York, the West. But 1:29:45.280 --> 1:29:48.439 then it was closed and then it was winter something else. Yeah, 1:29:48.720 --> 1:29:51.519 winter Land was there. Now it's the film war again, 1:29:52.479 --> 1:29:55.920 and there's a great American music hall that's there. It 1:29:56.080 --> 1:29:59.840 was a film or and it was one of the 1:30:00.439 --> 1:30:07.480 unbelievable shows. And then we were invited to this club afterwards. 1:30:07.560 --> 1:30:11.080 And it was one of those moments, the first time 1:30:11.200 --> 1:30:16.840 we realized that gay community or the LGBTQ community, or 1:30:16.880 --> 1:30:18.960 the alphabet community or whatever you want to call it 1:30:19.120 --> 1:30:25.640 now had embraced us massively, and that Annie was perceived 1:30:26.080 --> 1:30:32.600 as um as some kind of heroine or hero or 1:30:32.720 --> 1:30:38.200 heroine in this world, which we loved, you know, and 1:30:40.360 --> 1:30:42.840 you know, we started off making the first thing over 1:30:42.880 --> 1:30:45.920 recorded was with christ and Cozy Fanny two t from 1:30:47.040 --> 1:30:51.160 so we're quite aware of this world. A lot of 1:30:51.200 --> 1:30:53.880 our friends were in this world. But we didn't realize 1:30:53.920 --> 1:30:57.360 that in America this has been building up through the radio, 1:30:57.479 --> 1:31:03.120 that the song had been adopted and interpreted in many ways. Anyway, 1:31:03.320 --> 1:31:05.920 we had amazing time at this club till god knows 1:31:06.000 --> 1:31:11.080 when six o'clock in the morning or something, and and 1:31:11.200 --> 1:31:13.840 that was the end of the tour. So it was 1:31:13.960 --> 1:31:20.920 like we ended on this completely massive high. And and 1:31:21.080 --> 1:31:25.800 so you know, I mean from then on it was 1:31:25.880 --> 1:31:30.160 literally six or I think seven or eight albums in 1:31:30.200 --> 1:31:34.560 a row, all in eight years. As you've had the 1:31:34.680 --> 1:31:40.080 massive hit, to what degree do you feel the pressure? 1:31:40.280 --> 1:31:43.200 Internal pressure? How are you going to have a mass 1:31:43.240 --> 1:31:45.040 if you had on the follow up? Well, what happened 1:31:45.040 --> 1:31:48.280 in England was when Sweet James was number one in America, 1:31:50.040 --> 1:31:54.280 it immediately went to number two in Britain because there 1:31:54.320 --> 1:31:57.040 was a record that was stuck at number one, and 1:31:57.600 --> 1:32:01.679 of course the record the least before the single before 1:32:01.720 --> 1:32:04.479 that was a Stranger, came back in the Child at 1:32:04.560 --> 1:32:09.200 number six, and and we had also had that thing 1:32:09.320 --> 1:32:12.040 of touring a lot in the tourists and in touring 1:32:12.120 --> 1:32:15.200 the rhythmics, so we had a show. We weren't just like, oh, 1:32:15.320 --> 1:32:17.000 how we how are we going to do it, which 1:32:17.040 --> 1:32:19.080 happened to a lot of bands at a time, like 1:32:19.240 --> 1:32:22.439 heck at one hundred or all these bands came out 1:32:22.760 --> 1:32:26.280 and got to America and we're like, oh, there was 1:32:26.320 --> 1:32:29.200 no shot, there's no show, right, So when we played 1:32:29.200 --> 1:32:31.640 in England, of course it was like blimy, rhythmics are 1:32:31.680 --> 1:32:34.640 real sort of happening, and there was the Tube and 1:32:34.720 --> 1:32:39.240 all these different TV shows, and so we went in 1:32:39.320 --> 1:32:45.040 the studio. Well to put it, really, we never went 1:32:45.160 --> 1:32:48.400 in a studio. We and it was usually my fault. 1:32:48.479 --> 1:32:51.080 I was like, well, now let's record in a hotel room. 1:32:51.160 --> 1:32:55.840 Now let's record in a sort of youth club in 1:32:55.920 --> 1:32:58.920 the outskirts of Paris, which we did. You know, it 1:32:59.080 --> 1:33:01.640 was always something different because I'm a great believe as 1:33:01.640 --> 1:33:05.559 a producer like Brian Bryan, you know in a way 1:33:05.640 --> 1:33:09.200 that like it's not just to do with like sitting 1:33:09.240 --> 1:33:12.200 there with the engineer in a gray room in a basement, 1:33:13.040 --> 1:33:15.479 you know, it's to do with everything. You know. So 1:33:15.800 --> 1:33:19.519 the same as the thought process, you're writing, or well, 1:33:19.600 --> 1:33:21.280 it might be good to go on the rowing boat, 1:33:21.400 --> 1:33:24.080 or it might be good. You've got to allow the 1:33:24.160 --> 1:33:27.439 stuff in rather than just trying to chase it. So 1:33:27.560 --> 1:33:31.959 your best creative thoughts always happened when you're doing something else. Yes, classically, 1:33:32.000 --> 1:33:33.960 when you're in the shower, or it's the end of 1:33:34.000 --> 1:33:35.880 the night, you watch a little TV read all of 1:33:35.880 --> 1:33:39.040 a sudden SUPs as fire. Yeah, I mean, you know, 1:33:39.400 --> 1:33:45.479 for me and Annie, we then had endless amounts of 1:33:46.439 --> 1:33:50.040 you know, unrequated love songs kind of because we lived 1:33:50.080 --> 1:33:53.720 together and now we were forced to get together. But 1:33:53.800 --> 1:33:56.040 we couldn't be together. I mean even the last songs 1:33:56.200 --> 1:33:59.920 we wrote together seventeen again, you know, it says who 1:34:00.040 --> 1:34:02.240 couldn't be together, but couldn't be a part? It's like, 1:34:03.320 --> 1:34:07.280 so that was easy. Um so then we came up 1:34:07.320 --> 1:34:10.599 with here Comes the Rain Again. To what degree did 1:34:10.680 --> 1:34:14.640 you feel internal pressure? Did you feel when you went 1:34:14.720 --> 1:34:18.960 back to record again each time that you could make 1:34:19.120 --> 1:34:24.840 something that the audience in the business would accept? And 1:34:25.560 --> 1:34:29.320 I never personally thought like that because I've always been 1:34:29.400 --> 1:34:35.880 so stupidly positive and confident that things will work at 1:34:36.520 --> 1:34:38.599 so I personally didn't feel that pressure. I was more 1:34:38.760 --> 1:34:42.120 in it in my you know, okay, but then you 1:34:42.200 --> 1:34:45.400 know Tompenny wrote a whole song about it. You know, Uh, 1:34:45.960 --> 1:34:48.519 the record company doesn't hear a single, so would you 1:34:48.640 --> 1:34:52.360 consciously think, you know, I have to create a single. Well, 1:34:52.640 --> 1:34:57.800 you know what happened was, um, I think the record. 1:34:57.880 --> 1:35:01.320 And it was so so shocked and amazing how big 1:35:02.840 --> 1:35:06.920 our record was around the world that they didn't really 1:35:07.000 --> 1:35:11.760 bother us. And because I consciously said, let's record in 1:35:11.800 --> 1:35:14.200 a youth club on the outskirts of Paris, we didn't 1:35:14.240 --> 1:35:15.920 really have many visitors. You know, it was in the 1:35:16.040 --> 1:35:21.880 Russian Quarter and so it wasn't like they were checking 1:35:21.960 --> 1:35:23.880 honest to anything. And we would just say this is 1:35:24.000 --> 1:35:27.200 the single and this is the video that goes with it. 1:35:27.280 --> 1:35:30.559 And we made video albums ages before people made video albums. 1:35:31.240 --> 1:35:35.040 And they just thought we were this eccentric duo that 1:35:35.200 --> 1:35:36.479 they didn't know what was going to happen. But it's 1:35:36.520 --> 1:35:39.679 probably going to be all right. And I remember John Preston, 1:35:40.000 --> 1:35:42.920 who became head of the label one time, and he 1:35:43.120 --> 1:35:47.479 was chairman of the British phonographic industry. He came, you know, 1:35:47.680 --> 1:35:50.679 to meet us and he said, oh, I'm so excited 1:35:50.720 --> 1:35:53.920 to work with you guys. So when are you going 1:35:54.040 --> 1:35:57.240 to do your next album? I said, well, we're going 1:35:57.280 --> 1:36:00.760 to deliver it on me the first and he said, 1:36:01.080 --> 1:36:03.960 oh great, Can I ask some demos? I said, don't 1:36:04.040 --> 1:36:06.920 make demos. I think we're only going in there in 1:36:07.000 --> 1:36:10.120 the studio on April the seventh, and he was like what. 1:36:10.840 --> 1:36:14.000 So we would actually write and record the whole record 1:36:14.840 --> 1:36:20.600 in three weeks from scratch. Um. I think it was 1:36:20.720 --> 1:36:25.880 because I enforced it, because I had in the back 1:36:25.920 --> 1:36:28.559 of my head like necessity as the mother of invention. 1:36:29.360 --> 1:36:32.240 So I'd seen these other bands being mons and months 1:36:32.320 --> 1:36:36.120 in the studio and remixing and adding more things. And 1:36:36.560 --> 1:36:39.599 I limited it to an eight track when one track 1:36:39.760 --> 1:36:43.600 was used for what's called a SINC code. And so 1:36:43.680 --> 1:36:46.439 when I had seven tracks, and I was thinking that 1:36:46.520 --> 1:36:49.720 the early records that the Beatles did on Motown on 1:36:49.840 --> 1:36:53.720 four tracks and two tracks, and so you would make 1:36:53.880 --> 1:36:58.200 bounces right there and then you couldn't go back. So 1:36:58.520 --> 1:37:02.000 and he would do some harmonies we have, you know, 1:37:02.160 --> 1:37:06.040 like four hands on deck or whatever, have them mixed, 1:37:06.160 --> 1:37:09.080 and okay, you move it there at this point and 1:37:09.200 --> 1:37:11.960 bound some all to this one track over here. Hey, 1:37:12.200 --> 1:37:16.479 we've got four more tracks now, and we just made 1:37:16.520 --> 1:37:19.479 our records like that. And then I would sit in 1:37:19.600 --> 1:37:23.200 the mixing room with the engineer who had been working 1:37:23.240 --> 1:37:26.600 with it, and and just get to the end of 1:37:26.600 --> 1:37:29.400 a mix that was it. Hooray. You know, we always 1:37:29.479 --> 1:37:34.760 stopped at seven thirty and drank. We just never went 1:37:34.920 --> 1:37:42.720 past that start. Let's start about noon, okay. So when 1:37:42.760 --> 1:37:45.599 you were still through every album, we did that. Okay, 1:37:45.840 --> 1:37:50.120 April seven, you have any musical ideas before you show up. 1:37:51.600 --> 1:37:54.240 We had the untouched It was the only time we 1:37:54.360 --> 1:37:57.679 had a song. We started looking out of the Grammars 1:37:58.120 --> 1:38:01.719 the what are called the Mayfile Hotel overlooking Central Park. 1:38:02.600 --> 1:38:05.840 We sort of started a tiny tinkly bit of here 1:38:05.920 --> 1:38:10.640 comes the rain again. Okay. And this works for you 1:38:11.439 --> 1:38:14.400 because of the pressure, because now you know, I gotta 1:38:14.479 --> 1:38:16.640 come up with it. It's got to be delivered. The 1:38:16.800 --> 1:38:22.760 internal pressure, well, I think. Okay. So that's a big 1:38:22.840 --> 1:38:28.439 question because it's a lot of things in life. When 1:38:28.800 --> 1:38:30.679 it can be in sport, it can be in music, 1:38:30.800 --> 1:38:36.439 and be anything. Is having a kind of confidence about 1:38:37.320 --> 1:38:42.519 what you're about to do now, in fighting or anything. 1:38:42.600 --> 1:38:46.200 If you if you're slightly doubting it as you're going 1:38:46.280 --> 1:38:48.120 in you kind of going inside ways, you know what 1:38:48.200 --> 1:38:56.759 I mean? So h m, we both had a different 1:38:56.880 --> 1:38:59.280 kind of confidence, if you know what I mean. I 1:38:59.320 --> 1:39:02.920 don't think I never recorded nanny vocal ever where she 1:39:02.960 --> 1:39:07.160 ever sang one now attitude. And she never showed me 1:39:07.360 --> 1:39:10.240 a lyric that she was writing in her journal but 1:39:10.400 --> 1:39:14.439 or anything that was ever trite or you know, did 1:39:14.520 --> 1:39:18.760 she write those before the April sev to speak? You know? 1:39:18.920 --> 1:39:22.120 What happened was what would happen was she would have 1:39:22.600 --> 1:39:26.840 bits of words in a journal and I would But 1:39:27.320 --> 1:39:29.200 how we liked to work, which she liked to sit 1:39:29.479 --> 1:39:35.800 behind while I was fiddling about making tracks, you know, 1:39:36.280 --> 1:39:38.640 playing something on the airplanes, and then you jump up 1:39:38.640 --> 1:39:40.479 and go, I want to play on that bit and 1:39:40.600 --> 1:39:43.240 play that bit, and then she said keep playing up 1:39:43.240 --> 1:39:46.000 bit over and over again. And she would get bits 1:39:46.080 --> 1:39:49.360 of the lines in her journal. And then sometimes you said, 1:39:49.360 --> 1:39:51.160 I don't know, I don't think this is any good? 1:39:51.200 --> 1:39:53.880 What do you think? And then I would go, I 1:39:54.040 --> 1:39:57.439 peraeply moved that bit there, that line, and then that 1:39:57.479 --> 1:39:59.840 would fit over this bit here was like a jigsaw puddle. 1:40:00.720 --> 1:40:03.920 And but somehows she'd write like a whole load of 1:40:04.000 --> 1:40:06.960 words that just were like, for instance, sisters are doing 1:40:07.000 --> 1:40:11.200 it for themselves. We'd finished the record and Annie, what then, 1:40:11.240 --> 1:40:13.519 so I've written a poem like a you know, sort 1:40:13.520 --> 1:40:16.720 of a female empowerment home and it was sisters are 1:40:16.760 --> 1:40:19.880 doing it for themselves and didn't change one word. And 1:40:20.040 --> 1:40:23.920 I was like, when we should do like an R 1:40:24.040 --> 1:40:26.920 and B so or in a tiny little room trying 1:40:26.960 --> 1:40:28.880 to not hear the music I was going on in 1:40:28.960 --> 1:40:31.760 the other room, and I just did a little loom 1:40:31.800 --> 1:40:35.599 do do do do do do do a little loom 1:40:35.680 --> 1:40:39.599 do do, And I said, I'll put this track down 1:40:39.720 --> 1:40:44.040 like an old record. Now. I was doing everything that. 1:40:44.160 --> 1:40:47.200 I was picking up boxes and making jam jars with 1:40:47.360 --> 1:40:53.160 pencils and razor blades and shaking them like and at 1:40:53.200 --> 1:40:55.760 the time, I was working with Tom a lot, so 1:40:56.280 --> 1:40:58.439 I was friends with Ben Mont and Mike Campbell and 1:40:59.520 --> 1:41:01.960 I've got to play on it. I don't know where 1:41:01.960 --> 1:41:05.240 Annie went at this point, but we made because I 1:41:05.320 --> 1:41:07.360 remember we're doing an interview two years ago and she 1:41:07.400 --> 1:41:11.640 didn't realized they were playing on it. But that's on 1:41:11.760 --> 1:41:17.800 a record just sounded like this monster track, right, And 1:41:17.920 --> 1:41:23.040 then it was like somebody said, I can't remember, and 1:41:23.160 --> 1:41:24.720 he said it, or somebody in about says, hey, why 1:41:24.760 --> 1:41:27.280 don't you do this as a duet were talking about sisters, 1:41:28.320 --> 1:41:30.080 and I was like, oh, who could that be with 1:41:30.320 --> 1:41:33.600 Tina Turner this one right one? And I think it 1:41:33.720 --> 1:41:36.680 was Clives might have said, hey, why don't you do 1:41:36.760 --> 1:41:43.800 with a wreath? And Nanny was like and so. But 1:41:44.000 --> 1:41:49.920 we were excited about it. And Tom Petty's engineer, great guy, 1:41:51.479 --> 1:41:55.280 but like we flew with him with the tapes. But 1:41:55.640 --> 1:41:59.240 we got to Detroit and he left him on the plane, right, okay, 1:41:59.360 --> 1:42:03.120 then what so we're sitting waiting for a Wreatha who 1:42:03.240 --> 1:42:05.920 was late anyway, then he was I could see him 1:42:05.960 --> 1:42:10.640 looking all nervously about and he went flying back to 1:42:10.720 --> 1:42:14.120 the airport and a taxi because there were huge, heavy 1:42:14.200 --> 1:42:17.960 tapes or something come often said this must be something. 1:42:18.720 --> 1:42:21.760 We got them back and nothing was said to a 1:42:21.760 --> 1:42:24.920 Wreatha because she arrived and I've made chicken for y'all, 1:42:25.080 --> 1:42:28.880 you know, but at the time an Krishna, so it 1:42:29.040 --> 1:42:32.680 was all like I was like sort of trying to 1:42:32.760 --> 1:42:36.439 sort of delay time while he arrived out with the tapes. 1:42:37.640 --> 1:42:41.160 But one of the most amazing experiences I had in 1:42:41.240 --> 1:42:46.200 a musical sort of emotional sense with somebody else. I 1:42:46.280 --> 1:42:49.400 had hundreds with Annie. But Aretha told me to come 1:42:49.439 --> 1:42:51.880 in this room and it was about the size of 1:42:51.960 --> 1:42:54.960 this which is a very tiny room by the way listeners. 1:42:55.439 --> 1:43:00.960 And it was a piano, right, piano, and she was 1:43:01.040 --> 1:43:03.639 playing about on it, and I think she was trying 1:43:03.720 --> 1:43:06.280 to get to the point of asking me, what's this 1:43:06.400 --> 1:43:08.880 song really about, like, because she saw Annie with a 1:43:08.960 --> 1:43:10.760 cropped hair and the whole thing. She was wondering if 1:43:10.800 --> 1:43:15.519 she was singing a gay anther and but she started 1:43:15.560 --> 1:43:18.880 off just playing a piano and she started singing, and 1:43:19.000 --> 1:43:22.120 she sang the whole of the way we were really, 1:43:22.360 --> 1:43:26.639 you know, the gladdest night and I'm just so funny, 1:43:27.400 --> 1:43:30.000 can't believe it, little boyfriend. Suddenly I'm leaning on the 1:43:30.080 --> 1:43:35.000 piano like, you know, as if normal, and her she 1:43:35.120 --> 1:43:39.560 started crying as she's singing and playing it, and I'm like, 1:43:40.680 --> 1:43:43.800 BLI me. I was just like stunned, you know. And 1:43:43.960 --> 1:43:46.519 she didn't say anything about it's just like wiped a 1:43:46.600 --> 1:43:50.160 tear away and she was like started chatting. And then 1:43:50.240 --> 1:43:52.800 I noticed she had lots of people with her in 1:43:52.880 --> 1:43:57.040 the other room, right. I think she might have been 1:43:57.160 --> 1:44:01.280 singing it to them, and it was onto people. I 1:44:01.439 --> 1:44:05.559 was asking for something here and something there and like anyway, 1:44:05.720 --> 1:44:08.559 then she got round to say and so like this song, 1:44:09.040 --> 1:44:12.200 like she had the lyrics and she said, so, you know, 1:44:12.360 --> 1:44:15.400 ringing on their own bell. So I just what's the 1:44:15.479 --> 1:44:19.200 actually mean? They're like I was saying, no, no, I'm 1:44:19.200 --> 1:44:23.760 making you know, she's She's probably thinking she means like 1:44:23.880 --> 1:44:29.960 you know, and then yeah and uh and I'm completely convinced. 1:44:30.000 --> 1:44:32.320 And then she was looking at Annie and she's probably thinking, 1:44:33.400 --> 1:44:35.639 I'm going to sing a duet with this skinny white 1:44:35.680 --> 1:44:38.960 girl from Scotland. Does she have any idea who? No 1:44:39.120 --> 1:44:43.320 idea who? She's just been said, Clive, this is going 1:44:43.360 --> 1:44:46.760 to be a good idea. And I've got this great 1:44:46.800 --> 1:44:51.000 bat film on VHS shot through the window of them. 1:44:51.080 --> 1:44:53.880 So they're around like Mike, facing each other like this, 1:44:54.160 --> 1:44:58.200 right and aretheis got like her sort of denim jacket 1:44:58.280 --> 1:45:00.679 with studs in it, and she out of a cigarette 1:45:00.720 --> 1:45:03.160 and I didn't smoke or anything. It's like smoke going everywhere, 1:45:04.080 --> 1:45:09.080 and and the song starts, you know, and immediately Annie 1:45:09.120 --> 1:45:12.520 starts singing, searing the pull a jacket and put a cigarette. 1:45:15.000 --> 1:45:19.960 She realized she gained sing right, and she's got raised 1:45:20.080 --> 1:45:22.479 loud voice and he as well, so so then it 1:45:22.600 --> 1:45:27.240 became almost like a dueling competition, right, And then as 1:45:27.320 --> 1:45:29.160 it went all the way through at the end you 1:45:29.240 --> 1:45:33.960 can hear it, you know, the badly blinds equal pay, 1:45:34.120 --> 1:45:37.439 that's what we say, and Annie's answering, and it was 1:45:37.520 --> 1:45:40.240 all just like done in a take like that, and 1:45:41.040 --> 1:45:44.680 no overdubs, nothing, no fixing. Wait, how many takes did 1:45:44.720 --> 1:45:50.160 you do? Mm hmm maybe two? Maybe he kept the 1:45:50.240 --> 1:45:54.720 first one and we did a wreath to say a 1:45:54.760 --> 1:45:57.760 Wreatha said, oh, you got it enough. She was in 1:45:57.880 --> 1:45:59.960 such a good mood afterwards with all these thoughts, were 1:46:00.280 --> 1:46:04.439 laughing and playing it back, and I remember George Clinton 1:46:04.520 --> 1:46:07.280 coming down from somewhere into the room when the rumors 1:46:07.320 --> 1:46:10.880 filling up with people all listening to it, going fucking hell, 1:46:11.000 --> 1:46:14.800 this is like, you know, this is serious, like because 1:46:15.240 --> 1:46:18.200 any track you pushed up of their vocal was amazing. 1:46:18.800 --> 1:46:21.280 But then I push it up, what the hell's that sound? 1:46:21.320 --> 1:46:24.240 And it's like a box full of like razor blades 1:46:24.280 --> 1:46:27.679 and pencils, and and then that goes with the waa 1:46:27.840 --> 1:46:31.840 over he had and all this stuff, and it didn't 1:46:31.840 --> 1:46:34.160 matter what you pushed up, which way you left the faders, 1:46:34.240 --> 1:46:37.360 it still sounded great. Did you ever have any interaction 1:46:37.400 --> 1:46:42.360 with a week after was successful? Yeah, well I didn't 1:46:42.360 --> 1:46:45.639 actually go to the video shoot, and it was shot 1:46:45.760 --> 1:46:49.240 in Detroit, you know, because the wreath it wasn't flying 1:46:49.400 --> 1:46:51.519 back and on. He flew there. But it's quite funny. 1:46:51.640 --> 1:46:53.360 I watch it looks like they're not in the same 1:46:53.479 --> 1:46:56.280 place and that it was put in afterwards. But they 1:46:56.280 --> 1:46:59.200 were actually on the same stage. But like I don't 1:46:59.240 --> 1:47:05.519 know why they did it, like eight ft apart and so. 1:47:06.960 --> 1:47:09.360 But after a giant or had a few things like 1:47:09.520 --> 1:47:12.960 Clive Davis things, she was always very very nice to me. 1:47:13.040 --> 1:47:19.639 And I think I think that actually funny enough got 1:47:19.720 --> 1:47:24.120 a wreathing into a different mode of earning because then 1:47:25.680 --> 1:47:27.639 she made her obum Freeway of Love and a pink 1:47:27.680 --> 1:47:30.439 Cadillac by the way, which goes sisters are doing a 1:47:30.680 --> 1:47:34.760 free day of Loving. It's almost the same backing track, 1:47:34.880 --> 1:47:39.080 you know. And I got into a a different mode 1:47:39.120 --> 1:47:42.759 for a wrethis, so I think she was happy about that. Okay, 1:47:42.840 --> 1:47:46.920 so this is all happening. You make it money? Oh yeah, well, 1:47:46.960 --> 1:47:53.200 any and I made money from the Sweet Dreams album onwards, 1:47:53.360 --> 1:47:58.280 because he because of what my dad said, be we 1:47:58.520 --> 1:48:02.240 formed a company called in a limited and we've learned 1:48:02.280 --> 1:48:07.280 from all the tourists and all the stuff before how 1:48:07.439 --> 1:48:11.759 to have a limited company and how to be able 1:48:11.960 --> 1:48:15.800 to pay our tax taxes correctly. Would also be able 1:48:15.840 --> 1:48:19.080 to claim a lot of the things that we cost 1:48:19.200 --> 1:48:23.920 us money, you know. And so we were now a legit, 1:48:24.760 --> 1:48:30.600 you know company, and we had a proper accountants in 1:48:30.720 --> 1:48:33.880 it and everything. And so the money would arrive in 1:48:34.000 --> 1:48:38.040 our Barclay's bank account at the time in the local crush, 1:48:38.160 --> 1:48:40.560 and the guy who lent us to five thousand was 1:48:40.680 --> 1:48:44.400 now seeing five hundred thousand the account and more and 1:48:44.560 --> 1:48:48.360 more and more and more. So um, and we weren't. 1:48:48.400 --> 1:48:52.679 Actually people are running around going crazy. So I remember 1:48:53.320 --> 1:48:54.880 when we had quite a lot of money, I rang 1:48:55.000 --> 1:48:57.240 up my account. I said, you know, do you think 1:48:57.439 --> 1:49:03.080 I could like buy a car? And he said very 1:49:03.160 --> 1:49:08.320 typical English legal type of he said, Stewart, I think 1:49:08.360 --> 1:49:12.800 you have a reason for cautious celebration. I was, I 1:49:12.920 --> 1:49:14.960 hung up, and I was like trying to think how 1:49:15.040 --> 1:49:19.040 you celebrate cautious? So you were not proflab good with 1:49:19.080 --> 1:49:22.000 the money. You you were not blowing it now, but 1:49:22.160 --> 1:49:24.519 later on I did. I'm I'm the worst person in 1:49:24.600 --> 1:49:27.439 the world. I had buy a property when it's really 1:49:27.600 --> 1:49:31.439 high and sell it when the markets crashed. Every time. 1:49:32.760 --> 1:49:36.800 I just just hopeless at keeping it. I'm quite good 1:49:36.840 --> 1:49:39.400 at making it. We can't. Okay, how does it end 1:49:39.439 --> 1:49:44.320 with the rhythmics? Well, I don't know. I mean, I've 1:49:44.400 --> 1:49:46.840 had dinner in the last two weeks about three times 1:49:46.880 --> 1:49:51.160 with any here, and we don't really talk much about you. 1:49:51.280 --> 1:49:55.519 It makes I mean, we played in December at this 1:49:55.920 --> 1:50:02.679 rainforest fund with Springsteen and Sting and some other people, 1:50:03.600 --> 1:50:08.240 and we kind of went on stage and we kind 1:50:08.280 --> 1:50:10.960 of nailed it, you know, so we hadn't played for 1:50:11.479 --> 1:50:14.439 ages and we sort of and then we never talked 1:50:14.439 --> 1:50:18.320 about it afterwardside that we just but you know, I'm 1:50:19.040 --> 1:50:24.160 personally I love touring and playing live. And Annie always 1:50:24.320 --> 1:50:28.280 wasn't that keen on it, partly because the two hours 1:50:28.439 --> 1:50:32.960 of singing those kind of songs pitch perfect and actually 1:50:33.640 --> 1:50:36.559 running around the stage and doing all that. And also 1:50:36.720 --> 1:50:40.479 she know, she's like I am, I'm sixty seven, so 1:50:40.720 --> 1:50:44.519 she's a bit older now. Doesn't really want to go 1:50:45.000 --> 1:50:51.280 flying around changing airports especially nowadays. Um but I actually, 1:50:51.320 --> 1:50:53.640 I mean, of course, everybody now just has a residency 1:50:53.760 --> 1:50:56.360 in Vegas and everybody comes to you nothing. You need 1:50:56.400 --> 1:50:58.240 to do that. But that's what we don't really want, 1:50:58.280 --> 1:51:01.720 the residency in Vegas, don't really. We never made decisions 1:51:01.840 --> 1:51:04.760 about that way, like, well, that's where we'll make loads 1:51:04.800 --> 1:51:07.559 of money, because I think we both like things about life, 1:51:08.280 --> 1:51:10.160 you know, like how we want to live our life. 1:51:11.160 --> 1:51:14.760 And that's why I Alwa was so terribly when the 1:51:14.840 --> 1:51:18.000 markets crashed. I think, I think I'll live in France now, 1:51:18.479 --> 1:51:24.360 you know. But I'm never sort of really worried about, 1:51:25.120 --> 1:51:27.080 oh my god, how am I going to make some money? 1:51:27.120 --> 1:51:29.439 Because I would just easily adapt to not having as 1:51:29.520 --> 1:51:33.720 much money. Okay, you're right, let's go back. How do 1:51:33.800 --> 1:51:38.559 you get involved with Tom Petty? Well? God, how did 1:51:38.640 --> 1:51:42.200 I get involved with Tom Pei? Oh? I remember, I 1:51:42.280 --> 1:51:46.320 don't even know if this is how it started. Ah. 1:51:47.720 --> 1:51:51.599 I can't remember if I was involved with Bob Dylan 1:51:51.720 --> 1:51:55.400 before Tom Petty or I introduced Dylan to the idea 1:51:55.400 --> 1:51:58.800 of having the Heartbreakers as a band, because I think 1:51:59.600 --> 1:52:01.679 that I think I did a conversation with Diller once 1:52:02.160 --> 1:52:04.120 he was saying I never really had a band like 1:52:04.280 --> 1:52:07.280 the band since the band, but I said, there's only one. 1:52:07.280 --> 1:52:12.439 I could think it would be the Heartbreakers, right. But yeah, 1:52:12.600 --> 1:52:17.720 Tom Well say, I'm almost having these crazy ideas about, um, 1:52:18.520 --> 1:52:21.360 it's a film or TV shows whatever, and I've invented 1:52:21.960 --> 1:52:25.720 this thing called Beyond the Groove for British television. Where 1:52:25.760 --> 1:52:29.160 the idea was I'd have all these artists on it, 1:52:29.760 --> 1:52:33.160 but they all had to be live or acting, you know, 1:52:33.360 --> 1:52:37.120 acting parts, right, and it had like a little narrative 1:52:37.680 --> 1:52:40.559 and it was really to show you know, Cadine Lange 1:52:40.680 --> 1:52:43.560 and Tom Pettey and and they're all in and it 1:52:43.680 --> 1:52:45.519 was shown on Channel four. I think it was six 1:52:45.640 --> 1:52:48.400 one hour episodes or something. And I think that was 1:52:49.080 --> 1:52:51.880 might have been the first time I approached him, and 1:52:52.000 --> 1:52:56.160 maybe that was late and know when was don't come around? 1:52:56.200 --> 1:52:58.960 Oh I know why it was, Yeah, because Jimmy Ivan 1:52:59.080 --> 1:53:03.000 rang up while I was in the studio. I'd written 1:53:03.040 --> 1:53:06.200 a song all right, this all goes back to the 1:53:06.840 --> 1:53:09.920 San Francisco and the number one hit like stuff. So 1:53:10.920 --> 1:53:16.800 in l A before that we'd played and Stevin Nicks 1:53:16.840 --> 1:53:21.120 asked me afterwards we sort of hanging around in the 1:53:21.240 --> 1:53:24.680 backstage area and said, hey, I'm having a party at 1:53:24.760 --> 1:53:26.759 my house. Would you like to come. I didn't actually 1:53:26.800 --> 1:53:29.759 notice Stevie Nicks, and I didn't know much about Fleetwood 1:53:29.800 --> 1:53:33.400 Matt because while they were sort of peeking, we were 1:53:33.479 --> 1:53:35.559 like it was like the Clash and the such bistols. 1:53:35.640 --> 1:53:40.519 So I said, okay, why not? So she said, well, 1:53:40.560 --> 1:53:42.920 I've got a car right here, and in the car 1:53:43.080 --> 1:53:45.519 was her two backing singers. And I went off with 1:53:45.640 --> 1:53:51.200 her and we got to this house in and it 1:53:51.240 --> 1:53:53.080 must have been in Beverly Hills. Maybe I didn't know 1:53:53.120 --> 1:53:56.080 where I was. Now, back in that time, you got imagining, 1:53:56.439 --> 1:53:59.840 like no cell phones. I'd left my two itinery and 1:54:00.080 --> 1:54:04.080 dressing room. I just gone off with these people. We 1:54:04.200 --> 1:54:06.280 got to the house and go in. It's like this 1:54:07.080 --> 1:54:12.479 massive sort of Gothic type mansion. And in my eyes anyway, 1:54:13.280 --> 1:54:16.519 and then I'm sitting down, it was like no party, 1:54:16.680 --> 1:54:19.519 not even any music on, and I can't find them, 1:54:19.960 --> 1:54:23.600 the three of them, And so they've gone in a 1:54:23.680 --> 1:54:28.920 bathroom cocaine. Well probably yeah, doing what I would call 1:54:29.040 --> 1:54:34.800 marching pad. So so I was really naked. You know, 1:54:34.880 --> 1:54:37.680 we'd flown from somewhere to l a play the show. 1:54:38.760 --> 1:54:41.240 I would like still in the clothes, like you know, 1:54:42.240 --> 1:54:45.160 and I was like this huge place. I went along 1:54:45.200 --> 1:54:51.000 and I found a bedroom that was obviously nobody's, you know, 1:54:51.080 --> 1:54:54.200 it was like a spare room. I just thought, I've 1:54:54.280 --> 1:54:57.480 got a crash out. And in the morning at least 1:54:57.520 --> 1:55:00.520 I had memorized our manager in New York's number office, 1:55:00.720 --> 1:55:03.440 right and I could ring them and ask them where 1:55:03.480 --> 1:55:05.960 are the bands and like. And so I went and 1:55:06.120 --> 1:55:12.960 just crashed out and that. And then at about six 1:55:13.240 --> 1:55:16.760 or just as the light was coming up, I heard 1:55:16.800 --> 1:55:19.920 some noises and it was Stevie as if it was 1:55:20.040 --> 1:55:23.360 like the middle of the day. So of opening these 1:55:24.040 --> 1:55:27.520 different cupboards and going and trying on all these different 1:55:27.600 --> 1:55:34.040 Victorian nightclothes or lacey kind of things, and I was like, okay, 1:55:34.280 --> 1:55:37.440 so anyway, I don't I don't want to go on 1:55:37.520 --> 1:55:40.920 too much about the rest, but basically we became friends. 1:55:42.040 --> 1:55:45.040 And then I'll cut to the next bit. I wrote 1:55:45.080 --> 1:55:48.840 this song in hotel room, and it was don't come 1:55:48.880 --> 1:55:50.960 around here no more. The chorus, you know, saying don't 1:55:51.040 --> 1:55:56.760 come around here, and when I'm playing a coral sitar guitar, yeah, 1:55:57.640 --> 1:56:02.000 not the verses cora and I had played the whole 1:56:02.640 --> 1:56:05.040 back and chat and the sit our guitar and everything. 1:56:06.120 --> 1:56:11.160 And when I came back to l A had befriended 1:56:11.240 --> 1:56:14.160 Jimmy Ivan and he said, hey, you should live with 1:56:14.280 --> 1:56:17.960 me on the top of Mullholland so I did. And 1:56:18.080 --> 1:56:20.680 then I didn't realize that he was trying to produce 1:56:20.720 --> 1:56:22.800 a Stevie Nick's album. But I also didn't know that 1:56:22.880 --> 1:56:26.120 they've been living together, but now they didn't. So this 1:56:26.280 --> 1:56:30.000 was just learning the sort of the complicated where but 1:56:30.600 --> 1:56:34.960 stuff that was going on. So anyway, I played it 1:56:34.960 --> 1:56:37.320 at Jimmy went, oh god, this is doing a smash 1:56:37.440 --> 1:56:42.760 for Stevie. Um come to the studio. So he gets 1:56:42.800 --> 1:56:45.960 Steve with the studio. She comes, you know, about four 1:56:45.960 --> 1:56:50.240 in the afternoon, and Jimmy goes, this is a smash DV. 1:56:50.560 --> 1:56:53.200 She said, well, she already knew that I had kind 1:56:53.240 --> 1:56:57.839 of written this song for her, but she wasn't saying anything. 1:56:58.800 --> 1:57:02.400 And then we're around she started reciting sort of Shakespeare 1:57:02.520 --> 1:57:08.040 in the mic on the verses. You know, well, it 1:57:08.320 --> 1:57:13.000 might not have been Shakespeare, was Shakespearean language. Jamie keeps saying, Stephen, like, listen, 1:57:13.680 --> 1:57:17.200 it's just just right. You know. The chorus comes in 1:57:17.400 --> 1:57:20.120 and when she sang her voice on the chorus, it 1:57:20.240 --> 1:57:23.840 sounded killer. But the verses will are thou and THEE 1:57:23.920 --> 1:57:27.160 and all this stuff. And so we got around a 1:57:27.200 --> 1:57:32.920 little piano and Jimmy started saying to Stevie, look, can 1:57:32.960 --> 1:57:35.600 you stop doing that in front of my friend David, 1:57:35.720 --> 1:57:39.080 you know, because it's embarrassing. You don't even know. She says, 1:57:39.200 --> 1:57:43.200 what the fun we slept together the other night. That's 1:57:43.240 --> 1:57:46.800 the only bit of that story. And Jimmy was like, 1:57:46.960 --> 1:57:49.640 what he's like looking at me because I hadn't said anything, 1:57:49.720 --> 1:57:52.560 but I didn't know that they had been living. It 1:57:52.720 --> 1:57:55.720 was all just and then I was like, oh my god, 1:57:56.200 --> 1:57:59.520 this is terrible, and she went marching off to the 1:57:59.600 --> 1:58:04.280 bathroom him. And then Jimmy sort of calmed down and said, 1:58:04.280 --> 1:58:06.120 I know I'm gonna do. I'm gonna ring up Tom Petty. 1:58:07.280 --> 1:58:11.480 And so Tom Petty arrived at about an hour and 1:58:11.640 --> 1:58:13.880 he introduced me and I said, hey, how are you doing? 1:58:14.400 --> 1:58:18.800 Really did he knew I was? He says in a 1:58:18.920 --> 1:58:23.880 book somewhere that he had said to Jimmy already I 1:58:23.960 --> 1:58:27.160 want to do something different, well about this guy, But 1:58:27.320 --> 1:58:30.320 I don't think you would have, you know, just such 1:58:30.360 --> 1:58:34.320 an obscure choice of person I would be with anyway. 1:58:35.360 --> 1:58:38.840 So he Jimmy plays the song to him and it's 1:58:38.880 --> 1:58:41.280 like always a confusing song for him and the harbor, 1:58:41.400 --> 1:58:45.320 as would Sita, but he had some Jack Daniels and 1:58:47.880 --> 1:58:50.520 I don't think what else we had, But anyway, we 1:58:50.680 --> 1:58:52.880 got on like a house on fire. He said, oh, 1:58:52.880 --> 1:58:55.160 why don't you come back to my garage under the house, 1:58:55.200 --> 1:58:59.080 I've got a studio. So we go there and then 1:58:59.360 --> 1:59:03.240 Jimmy sees what's happening, so his tags along. He goes. 1:59:03.400 --> 1:59:07.480 We all go at the garage and we decided to 1:59:07.640 --> 1:59:09.640 play it with his band. But the band are looking 1:59:09.720 --> 1:59:11.920 a bit sort of annoyed because this is nothing like 1:59:13.440 --> 1:59:17.560 you know, the album, which is about Southern accidents and 1:59:18.440 --> 1:59:21.720 and I you know, I'm from the northeast of English. 1:59:22.360 --> 1:59:25.680 What do I know? All I knew is that I 1:59:25.840 --> 1:59:28.680 love the song Refugee because it was the only song 1:59:28.840 --> 1:59:33.560 that's slightly fitted in the punk era where I'd come 1:59:33.640 --> 1:59:36.000 from in England. You know that he was the only 1:59:36.040 --> 1:59:38.160 band that could play at a festival with the clash 1:59:38.240 --> 1:59:43.440 on it, you know, so um he started to sort 1:59:43.480 --> 1:59:47.600 of you know, you know, calm the band down, like 1:59:47.800 --> 1:59:49.520 you know, and I said, listen, I've got an idea, 1:59:49.600 --> 1:59:53.320 like obviously I've made this on this little fourth track 1:59:53.360 --> 1:59:55.520 port to studio, I carried around with a drum machine 1:59:55.560 --> 1:59:57.920 and a sit on. This doesn't sound anything like you guys, 1:59:58.000 --> 2:00:00.480 I can tell it, but why not at the end 2:00:01.360 --> 2:00:04.520 you come in right as the band, And then I said, 2:00:04.760 --> 2:00:07.200 I had a whole idea about, Hey, it could be 2:00:07.280 --> 2:00:09.840 like the Mad Hat's Tea Party and then you know 2:00:09.920 --> 2:00:12.800 the whole madness of end up being the video. Yeah, 2:00:12.800 --> 2:00:15.800 it would end up being a video. And so the 2:00:15.880 --> 2:00:18.320 band came in and then Mike comes into this great 2:00:18.360 --> 2:00:23.080 wah wild guitar solo, and Tom got sort of it 2:00:23.200 --> 2:00:26.080 kind of broke a kind of spell because he had 2:00:26.120 --> 2:00:28.280 gotten really sort of down in the middle of this 2:00:28.680 --> 2:00:31.200 album and it was all getting it was taking a 2:00:31.280 --> 2:00:33.880 long time, and and this all of a sudden, it 2:00:34.000 --> 2:00:37.880 was just this is just not like anything on Earth, right, 2:00:38.720 --> 2:00:41.880 and to this that I'd still be weird, like there's 2:00:41.920 --> 2:00:44.720 this someone a Mad Hat's Tea Party video and drum 2:00:44.840 --> 2:00:49.040 machine and it's the interesting thing was he was cold. Yeah, 2:00:49.200 --> 2:00:51.080 you know, we'd done the album with Jimmy and they 2:00:51.120 --> 2:00:53.680 did long after dark. This didn't sound like this and 2:00:53.760 --> 2:00:57.480 this is what reinvigorated his career. Yeah, but you know 2:00:58.360 --> 2:01:01.480 I understood for the Heartbreakers, they were like, what on 2:01:01.600 --> 2:01:04.920 earth is this alien from out of space? But then 2:01:05.000 --> 2:01:08.880 they started playing it live and it started to change 2:01:08.960 --> 2:01:12.120 the whole show. And then Tom started coming out with 2:01:12.200 --> 2:01:15.440 the top hat live and then it started to be 2:01:15.520 --> 2:01:18.760 a different show. And then when they played the end bit, 2:01:18.880 --> 2:01:23.200 they extended it and it became this amazing solo with mine. 2:01:23.280 --> 2:01:27.760 Did you cut the final version his garage that day? Yeah? Okay, 2:01:28.160 --> 2:01:30.040 since you keep bringing them up, how did you be dealing? 2:01:31.960 --> 2:01:37.880 I was in a studio right in Los Angeles and 2:01:38.120 --> 2:01:41.560 there was this Irish kid called Fergil Sharky from the Undertones, 2:01:43.000 --> 2:01:47.920 and the lady receptions at the studio rang through and said, 2:01:48.280 --> 2:01:51.560 Bob Dylan's on the line for Dave Stuart and I 2:01:51.760 --> 2:01:54.800 just went, oh, this is Fergil because we were we're 2:01:54.840 --> 2:01:57.400 always lacking about with each other, and I paid, I 2:01:57.480 --> 2:02:02.000 went yeah, and this voice started speaking and I was like, 2:02:03.440 --> 2:02:06.560 it's definitely not this is definitely Bob Jel and nobody 2:02:06.600 --> 2:02:10.640 can imitate that voice, you know, And he he said, 2:02:11.960 --> 2:02:14.400 you know, I can't really do his Swiss good. I 2:02:14.480 --> 2:02:16.960 was just wondering, like you like movies and I was 2:02:17.040 --> 2:02:22.760 like yeah, she says, yeah, yeah, I like movies. Do 2:02:22.840 --> 2:02:24.680 you want to go get bite to eat? And I 2:02:24.840 --> 2:02:30.760 was like okay. I went to meet him and he said, 2:02:30.840 --> 2:02:35.000 you choose the place. So I was thinking, um, so 2:02:35.400 --> 2:02:38.240 I knew these Thai people who had a restaurant sunset 2:02:38.320 --> 2:02:41.720 called the Tali Side, and I said to them, look, 2:02:41.880 --> 2:02:44.000 you know, can you just get me a look like 2:02:44.440 --> 2:02:47.640 a tiny bit of it to the side, not in 2:02:47.720 --> 2:02:50.320 the window or anything else. So they didn't built the 2:02:50.360 --> 2:02:54.440 whole hedge kind of and they kept bringing out all 2:02:54.520 --> 2:02:57.400 of the dishes instead of one, like you know, four 2:02:57.560 --> 2:03:01.840 different tom car guys and stuff. But he didn't anything 2:03:01.880 --> 2:03:05.440 about that. But we ordered some drinks and all that stuff. 2:03:07.200 --> 2:03:10.800 And then he said and that's was my girlfriend at 2:03:10.800 --> 2:03:13.640 the time. And after that he said, hey, do you 2:03:13.720 --> 2:03:16.760 want to come with me to During the meal, he 2:03:16.920 --> 2:03:19.760 was asking what kind of movies I liked? And you 2:03:19.840 --> 2:03:22.600 know what, you know, what kind of music I listened 2:03:22.640 --> 2:03:24.560 to and all the stuff we've done. Let's go back 2:03:24.600 --> 2:03:27.760 a chapter. You're in Sunderland playing It's all Right by 2:03:27.880 --> 2:03:31.560 your folk guitar. Yeah, you're out to dinner with Bob Dylan, 2:03:31.680 --> 2:03:35.400 what's going through your mind? Well, I think it's a 2:03:35.440 --> 2:03:37.760 bit like the thing when you know, I was explaining 2:03:37.840 --> 2:03:40.840 your eyes realized you're gonna have a car crash, right, 2:03:41.400 --> 2:03:44.320 So I think at the time you don't panic, it's 2:03:44.360 --> 2:03:49.760 just afterwards you go fucking what happened. In fact, you 2:03:49.920 --> 2:03:53.800 might find this funny, but there's a a TV series 2:03:54.760 --> 2:04:00.240 started in Britain and the first episode it's called um 2:04:02.160 --> 2:04:06.640 It's something. It's like something like about a rumor or something, 2:04:07.200 --> 2:04:10.200 but it's basically an actor playing Bob Dylan coming to 2:04:10.360 --> 2:04:13.879 visit me in England. And I won't tell you anymore. 2:04:13.880 --> 2:04:17.080 I'll send you the link. It's very it's hilariously funny 2:04:17.080 --> 2:04:21.600 and brilliantly done, brilliantly acted. But basically, yeah, it's kind 2:04:21.640 --> 2:04:23.480 of odd because you know, he was very much It 2:04:23.560 --> 2:04:27.760 wasn't really an interrogation. It was more like almost like 2:04:29.120 --> 2:04:33.200 an interview. You wanted to know, like all this stuff. 2:04:33.200 --> 2:04:37.040 But when I started talking about like, you know, blues 2:04:37.160 --> 2:04:39.400 players that I liked and this and that and ones 2:04:39.480 --> 2:04:43.080 that were quite obscure, and he was like, oh, they 2:04:43.240 --> 2:04:45.280 really sort of livened up and he was talking about 2:04:45.280 --> 2:04:49.640 all this stuff and and and then I talked about 2:04:49.720 --> 2:04:54.120 you know, French filmmakers and all sorts of different Italian 2:04:54.160 --> 2:04:58.800 filmmakers and and it's like, yeah, right, well you want 2:04:58.800 --> 2:05:02.240 to come to this place with me? And I said okay, 2:05:02.400 --> 2:05:07.200 So I followed. It was like going miles easterly somewhere 2:05:07.200 --> 2:05:10.920 I don't know where I was, And we pulled up 2:05:10.920 --> 2:05:13.280 at the back of this sort of bumpy car park 2:05:14.120 --> 2:05:17.280 and there's a door and we get to the door 2:05:18.440 --> 2:05:21.280 and he does like knock on the door and I'm thinking, 2:05:22.040 --> 2:05:24.920 where are we and the door arms and this is 2:05:25.720 --> 2:05:28.440 God's own us truth. It's just so like a Bob 2:05:28.480 --> 2:05:31.800 Dylan's song. It's the door ups as as a very 2:05:31.920 --> 2:05:39.600 small person in a wedding dress, Mexican lady, and she 2:05:39.680 --> 2:05:44.440 goes Bobby and I'm like okay. And as we were 2:05:44.480 --> 2:05:47.960 walking and he says, drink out of the bottle, so 2:05:48.120 --> 2:05:52.000 I said okay. So we're going there and we're drinking 2:05:52.320 --> 2:05:56.720 bottles of beer and then it's quite a beautiful other 2:05:57.560 --> 2:06:00.840 woman comes and sits next to us talking and he goes, 2:06:01.000 --> 2:06:05.240 how about we start shooting tomorrow? And I'm like it's 2:06:05.360 --> 2:06:08.280 like two in the morning. I'm like, you mean today? 2:06:08.320 --> 2:06:11.400 He goes, yeah, today this this girl's going to be 2:06:11.520 --> 2:06:16.560 in it, and I'm like, okay, so what's it about? 2:06:17.880 --> 2:06:23.600 And then so we just well, like I was like 2:06:23.760 --> 2:06:27.680 scrambling the next morning and I found okay and shoot 2:06:27.800 --> 2:06:33.560 something in a church right on the corner of like Highland, right, 2:06:34.400 --> 2:06:37.280 and he said, oh yeah, I want to do this 2:06:37.600 --> 2:06:42.520 song called no it's not called tight Connection to My Heart, 2:06:42.560 --> 2:06:46.880 it's called when the Night Comes Falling from the sky, right. 2:06:47.240 --> 2:06:48.760 And then I want to do the snow one called 2:06:49.040 --> 2:06:52.600 Emotionally Yours all in the same day, and I'm like, 2:06:52.760 --> 2:06:55.960 the one's a ballad and ones like this, and so 2:06:56.840 --> 2:06:59.680 I'm thinking he means a video. He keeps calling them 2:06:59.720 --> 2:07:02.520 phil for it because and then they only said I 2:07:02.560 --> 2:07:06.720 hate making videos. So on the one when the Night 2:07:06.800 --> 2:07:10.400 Comes Falling from the skies, literally me and him, and 2:07:10.480 --> 2:07:13.680 I got Clembert on drums and Fergel who was in 2:07:13.760 --> 2:07:17.600 the studio playing tambourine, and the girl who he said, 2:07:17.640 --> 2:07:22.360 we'll be in it like miming you know, when the 2:07:22.480 --> 2:07:26.440 Night comes falling, right, So and just filmed it like 2:07:26.520 --> 2:07:29.600 a performance, but we start off in a bus. I 2:07:29.720 --> 2:07:32.320 made it like how mad it was that nobody knows 2:07:32.400 --> 2:07:35.200 what was happening. I had Steve from Talk and Heads, 2:07:35.240 --> 2:07:38.080 the percussion player, and we go on the bus and 2:07:38.160 --> 2:07:42.120 we go there in emotionally years. He says, now I 2:07:42.240 --> 2:07:45.160 want a girl to play Elizabeth Taylor in this one. 2:07:45.880 --> 2:07:51.959 This is like three in the afternoon, like ah okay. 2:07:52.480 --> 2:07:57.600 So so then he said, yeah, I want to I 2:07:57.680 --> 2:07:59.800 want to have an argument with it in the song 2:08:01.040 --> 2:08:05.080 so you can see it online and it's like, so 2:08:05.520 --> 2:08:07.480 there's just a piano in the middle of the room 2:08:08.360 --> 2:08:10.920 like coming through the window and he sings, you know, 2:08:10.960 --> 2:08:15.280 emotionally ours and then it goes to a bridge section 2:08:16.320 --> 2:08:19.120 and it's outside not far from the church. We walked 2:08:19.120 --> 2:08:22.320 across from around the corner and I just got the 2:08:22.400 --> 2:08:27.920 girls just swinging on a rope like Rember right, and 2:08:28.200 --> 2:08:31.480 he's just sitting at the tree like and they're sort 2:08:31.480 --> 2:08:34.879 of having an argument without speaking, and then she storms 2:08:34.920 --> 2:08:38.040 off down the street. This is all done in like 2:08:39.000 --> 2:08:43.440 like zero time to get ready for it. And so 2:08:43.560 --> 2:08:46.959 after that we became friends and he came to England 2:08:47.400 --> 2:08:51.160 and he messed around in the church. We never Everybody 2:08:51.240 --> 2:08:52.800 kept saying you produced, some ve done and I said no, 2:08:52.880 --> 2:08:56.320 we never did anything apart from just jamming making up 2:08:56.440 --> 2:09:00.200 stuff and being sort of friends really, and then when 2:09:00.240 --> 2:09:02.360 he came to England another time, he said, hey, why 2:09:02.400 --> 2:09:07.800 don't we make another one their films like Tomorrow and okay, 2:09:07.880 --> 2:09:11.040 So I hired a top hat from the BBC. So 2:09:11.120 --> 2:09:13.400 when he came around at twelve o'clock, all I had 2:09:13.520 --> 2:09:16.800 was to eight million meter Sindy cameras and I saw 2:09:16.800 --> 2:09:20.360 a pat so he put the top hat on. We 2:09:20.480 --> 2:09:23.120 went down Camden Lock Market because I knew the area 2:09:24.040 --> 2:09:27.800 and on a house boat and I just decided to 2:09:27.920 --> 2:09:30.600 film see what would happen if I had a long 2:09:30.760 --> 2:09:33.080 lens across the other side of the road and Dylan 2:09:33.160 --> 2:09:36.000 just walked around with the top hat on. And of 2:09:36.120 --> 2:09:38.520 course what happened was Peter looked like the scene it goes. 2:09:38.880 --> 2:09:42.920 It was like whoa, or they would start following and 2:09:43.000 --> 2:09:46.120 it became like the pie Piper. And then I lay 2:09:46.160 --> 2:09:49.080 on the ground and filmed them walking over me like 2:09:49.200 --> 2:09:53.760 the pie Piper. And this we didn't even know we're 2:09:53.800 --> 2:09:56.400 going to do this till he pulled out a trap 2:09:56.480 --> 2:09:59.000 that it recorded. This is the weird thing he had 2:09:59.080 --> 2:10:02.280 forgotten that I got a studio putting his garage from 2:10:02.600 --> 2:10:06.400 up at on the top of you know where he 2:10:06.520 --> 2:10:11.520 lives on just past Blabu. I got a friend of 2:10:11.600 --> 2:10:13.880 mine and I got some equipment and just sort of 2:10:13.960 --> 2:10:16.480 put a studio there for him, which he never ever 2:10:16.640 --> 2:10:19.080 used it, but it was, you know, a multi track 2:10:19.200 --> 2:10:24.600 track soundcraft studio. He could record there, and because he 2:10:25.040 --> 2:10:27.480 was saying he hated the recording process too, as well 2:10:27.560 --> 2:10:31.680 as making videos, and so then he said, ha, I 2:10:31.880 --> 2:10:36.000 used that studio, And I said, and he'd used just 2:10:36.480 --> 2:10:40.840 two tracks on it to record acoustic guitar and voice. 2:10:41.520 --> 2:10:44.080 And there was that whole album Blood in My Eyes, 2:10:44.440 --> 2:10:46.840 and we did that video to Blood in my Eyes, 2:10:47.040 --> 2:10:50.600 just shot on eight millie sydy camera. I had too, 2:10:50.800 --> 2:10:52.680 but like I was trying to get a shot to 2:10:52.720 --> 2:10:56.000 cut away and this my brother in law went past 2:10:56.640 --> 2:10:59.920 for a second. I said, quick shoot with this camera 2:11:00.000 --> 2:11:01.800 out and he goes, why, I said, that's Bob done 2:11:01.840 --> 2:11:04.240 over there. He goes, fuck. He said, okay, so he 2:11:04.280 --> 2:11:07.560 should say, and I'm filming, and then he says, hey, 2:11:07.720 --> 2:11:09.280 I have to give you a camera back because I'm 2:11:09.360 --> 2:11:13.760 getting the tiles from my mom's kitchen. And I'm like, sucking, 2:11:15.880 --> 2:11:20.040 I know, but that's very sort of english. Singly, well, 2:11:20.080 --> 2:11:23.600 I have to go because I'm doing this. But I 2:11:23.720 --> 2:11:28.120 love that video. It turned out great. Um, but yeah, 2:11:28.360 --> 2:11:32.520 do you maintain contact with him? Well, yeah, so sometimes 2:11:33.600 --> 2:11:36.440 my past messages back because you never know where he is. 2:11:37.680 --> 2:11:41.200 But jeff Rozen, you know, we passed messages back and 2:11:41.320 --> 2:11:47.520 forth fire jeff Rozen. Yeah, and he's always been great 2:11:47.680 --> 2:11:51.040 and like obviously the messages are the things that I 2:11:52.200 --> 2:11:55.440 passed to him. The fact he said, actually the funniest thing, 2:11:55.640 --> 2:12:00.280 the fastest Bob has ever replied to anything. Well, when 2:12:00.440 --> 2:12:02.960 I asked him if you could make some wrought iron 2:12:03.120 --> 2:12:07.880 gates for my house in Jamaica, you know, just like it, 2:12:08.040 --> 2:12:14.800 just like yeah, like you could probably turn down, you know, 2:12:14.880 --> 2:12:19.440 would you like to accept the sortle Nobel prize but 2:12:19.520 --> 2:12:24.280 it'll make the gates? Well I engage. Yeah, okay, because 2:12:24.360 --> 2:12:27.640 I understand why you say, because like him, you know, 2:12:28.040 --> 2:12:30.360 you're doing a lot of metal work, and love's getting 2:12:30.360 --> 2:12:33.400 all broken up old stuff and turning them into things 2:12:33.520 --> 2:12:38.480 and all that stuff. So I understand. But yeah, okay, 2:12:38.680 --> 2:12:42.960 why is it that you are become friendly with all 2:12:43.040 --> 2:12:48.960 these people? Why do you think that is? Um mm hmm, 2:12:52.000 --> 2:12:54.160 I don't know. I don't know. It's hard to answer 2:12:54.240 --> 2:12:56.920 that question. I mean, they could be varying things. One 2:12:56.960 --> 2:12:59.600 you could say someone so talented, they're tracking them down 2:12:59.640 --> 2:13:01.720 for the out. But even when you listen to you, 2:13:02.120 --> 2:13:04.520 you're a good time. Even when I met you, like 2:13:04.600 --> 2:13:07.280 a year ago, you're very friendly. You you you treat 2:13:07.320 --> 2:13:11.040 everybody like an equal, etcetera. But you know, it's a 2:13:11.080 --> 2:13:13.200 little bit like the movie's like you talk about that 2:13:13.320 --> 2:13:16.560 you fit in anywhere. Do you think it's something about 2:13:16.600 --> 2:13:19.360 your personality or people respect your work or what do 2:13:19.440 --> 2:13:23.680 you think that? I think, probably now that I'm older, 2:13:23.920 --> 2:13:31.520 it's because I'm very enthusiastic about stuff and that's very infectious. 2:13:32.320 --> 2:13:36.840 So um, and that I don't particularly want anything from 2:13:37.600 --> 2:13:43.200 the person and love. Successful people are often approached because 2:13:43.240 --> 2:13:49.440 somebody wants something, right, So I'm just really enthusiastic. And 2:13:50.080 --> 2:13:55.240 I suppose having worked with lots of different people and 2:13:55.440 --> 2:14:00.320 it being such a small industry, um, so well would 2:14:00.360 --> 2:14:02.800 get around, Oh this is this kind of personal This 2:14:02.960 --> 2:14:06.800 is an enthusiastic person. You might probably have a you know, 2:14:07.200 --> 2:14:10.080 good session or but I don't even do session. I say, 2:14:10.200 --> 2:14:13.839 I never approach anybody to try and write with anybody. 2:14:14.000 --> 2:14:18.040 I've never said to my publisher, well, why aren't I 2:14:18.120 --> 2:14:19.960 writing a song with them, or I've never said a 2:14:20.040 --> 2:14:23.560 record company, hey, I want to produce this band, not one, 2:14:24.320 --> 2:14:32.600 So it's um that probably two people seems odd because 2:14:33.760 --> 2:14:36.600 I've never thought of anything as a career, like, oh, 2:14:36.720 --> 2:14:39.880 I'll be a record producer. Now what the record producers do? 2:14:40.000 --> 2:14:42.960 When you make records and then once they're write, you 2:14:43.000 --> 2:14:44.560 look for the next band you're going to make a 2:14:44.640 --> 2:14:48.040 record with and you're being a producer. And I've never thought, oh, 2:14:48.640 --> 2:14:51.720 I'm just a songwriter, so right, I must find somebody 2:14:51.760 --> 2:14:54.800 that writes songs with or write songs. I just actually, 2:14:54.920 --> 2:14:58.240 I'm just doing whatever I want to do. Okay, let's 2:14:58.240 --> 2:15:01.640 switch to yours you deuced? Or we're one of the 2:15:01.720 --> 2:15:05.360 producers on the last Stevie Nicks record, which is on 2:15:05.560 --> 2:15:08.800 the one I produced, the one before and then the 2:15:08.920 --> 2:15:11.640 last one. Yeah, okay, but the last one with secret 2:15:11.760 --> 2:15:15.400 Love and all that other stuff, that's the best album 2:15:15.560 --> 2:15:19.320 since the first one. Okay, especially that title track. I've 2:15:19.400 --> 2:15:22.800 listened to that dozens of times. It's not enough. How 2:15:22.840 --> 2:15:25.600 did you come to work with her again? All right? 2:15:25.840 --> 2:15:31.040 So what happened to us having you know, known Stevie 2:15:31.120 --> 2:15:33.520 jo in the eighties and then lost touch a bit 2:15:34.200 --> 2:15:37.160 and then sometime I can't remember. It might have been 2:15:37.200 --> 2:15:44.480 in the nineties. UM Jimmy said they're going to do 2:15:45.240 --> 2:15:49.360 an HBO. It might have been two thousands, even early 2:15:49.440 --> 2:15:53.960 two thousand's. They want to do a TV show UM 2:15:54.880 --> 2:15:59.800 in partnership with HBO, and would I be the per 2:16:00.040 --> 2:16:04.120 us and that interviews various people for it. So HBO 2:16:05.440 --> 2:16:09.520 made UM a pilot. They want to make a pilot, 2:16:09.520 --> 2:16:11.240 and Jimmy said, oh, why don't we do the pilot 2:16:11.320 --> 2:16:15.240 with Stevie. I said, okay, she wants to do it, 2:16:15.360 --> 2:16:17.680 so then we spoke on the phone. Then we were 2:16:17.760 --> 2:16:19.920 laughing and talking on the phone, and she says, yeah, yeah, 2:16:20.000 --> 2:16:22.000 this will be great. I love to do it. So 2:16:22.120 --> 2:16:25.960 we made that pilot with Stevie, which nobody's ever seen, 2:16:27.240 --> 2:16:30.520 and then we made a real one with you two 2:16:31.320 --> 2:16:35.200 with one oh and edge where actually, if you could 2:16:35.200 --> 2:16:38.200 see it uncut, it's funny because we get absolutely plastered 2:16:39.040 --> 2:16:43.320 because somebody had the bright idea of halfway through the 2:16:43.440 --> 2:16:47.760 interview with an audience in the break, they bring us 2:16:47.879 --> 2:16:51.280 jokes of Margarita. This is like three or four in 2:16:51.320 --> 2:16:56.480 the afternoon, and of course after that the interview goes 2:16:56.560 --> 2:17:01.440 Haywire and lots of things that are probably off, you know, 2:17:01.879 --> 2:17:06.560 like we're cut out, We're really interesting that Bono and 2:17:06.680 --> 2:17:10.480 Edge were talking about. But I think that aired, and 2:17:10.680 --> 2:17:13.920 then I did a one with Ringo where he shows 2:17:14.080 --> 2:17:16.720 how he plays left handed and why you did that 2:17:16.840 --> 2:17:19.640 drum feel like this and all that stuff and and 2:17:20.600 --> 2:17:25.520 so that's how connected. Okay, So what do you think 2:17:25.560 --> 2:17:28.480 about the music business in the Internet age, because certainly 2:17:28.640 --> 2:17:32.480 radically different from it was in the pre Internet era. Well, 2:17:33.560 --> 2:17:37.679 I think what's happened is the barbel is slid completely, 2:17:38.000 --> 2:17:41.640 almost vertically up and down. So the middle class of 2:17:42.440 --> 2:17:46.080 the music business, meaning all the bands that could get 2:17:46.200 --> 2:17:51.000 by by just telling you know a number of albums 2:17:51.120 --> 2:17:53.680 that allowed them to go and play live, I mean 2:17:54.040 --> 2:17:58.040 that kind of disappeared. And all of the artists who 2:17:58.160 --> 2:18:05.760 became enormously successful very quickly, like you know, well quickly comparatively, 2:18:05.920 --> 2:18:08.640 but like the Taylor Swift State hearings and people are 2:18:08.720 --> 2:18:11.320 that are earning as much as the Beatles did in 2:18:11.400 --> 2:18:14.520 their whole career in a very short space of time 2:18:14.680 --> 2:18:17.800 because of all the ways in which they can perform 2:18:17.920 --> 2:18:20.000 now and all of the ways they can put stuffat 2:18:20.120 --> 2:18:24.480 and the brands and everything, so you know all of 2:18:24.520 --> 2:18:27.240 the brand attachments and stuff. So then you've got the 2:18:27.320 --> 2:18:31.480 ones even below the middle class that slid down to 2:18:31.640 --> 2:18:36.320 the young starting out who are getting advised. Like I 2:18:36.440 --> 2:18:39.960 read something the other day, I think it was a 2:18:40.080 --> 2:18:44.000 CD baby put something saying, oh, if you're an independent 2:18:44.160 --> 2:18:47.720 artist wanting to release a single in here's a few 2:18:47.760 --> 2:18:49.760 suggestions of what to do. And it was about nine 2:18:49.800 --> 2:18:54.440 pages long, and I was thinking, like, even for myself, 2:18:54.480 --> 2:18:59.959 who understands just about most things about you know, marketing, Internet, everything, 2:19:00.640 --> 2:19:03.160 I would just be bored after about the third line 2:19:03.200 --> 2:19:06.279 of it and just give up and say, you know them, 2:19:06.400 --> 2:19:08.520 I might as well go back and just start working 2:19:08.840 --> 2:19:13.720 at the shipyards, you know. So um, I think it's 2:19:13.879 --> 2:19:19.880 an absolutely absolute nightmare crisis for artists that's been going 2:19:19.959 --> 2:19:24.480 on for quite a while in certain areas of the 2:19:24.680 --> 2:19:28.560 art form, you know, and not in music definitely, because 2:19:28.640 --> 2:19:30.760 we were the first to go cosse MP three's were 2:19:30.840 --> 2:19:38.480 so smaller download but generally UM writers and journalism and 2:19:39.640 --> 2:19:44.160 in many areas it's just become the barbell is right 2:19:44.879 --> 2:19:50.280 turned vertically instead of horizontally. And I think if I 2:19:50.520 --> 2:19:53.760 was a new artist then starting out now I'd be 2:19:53.879 --> 2:19:57.119 so lost as to where to start. The noise that's 2:19:57.200 --> 2:20:01.160 been generated through all of the people you know, eating 2:20:01.600 --> 2:20:06.560 raw chili and getting millions of views on YouTube and like, 2:20:07.280 --> 2:20:10.080 you know, just all of the things that's happening that people. 2:20:11.360 --> 2:20:15.520 I suppose I would call it like the meat. When 2:20:15.560 --> 2:20:19.760 it changed to being me, we kind of like, hang on, 2:20:21.040 --> 2:20:25.600 I think I could do something and you know, go 2:20:25.800 --> 2:20:30.320 on YouTube and do a makeup tutorial or do this 2:20:30.560 --> 2:20:35.600 or do that. Um, it's confused with the people who 2:20:35.640 --> 2:20:38.280 are actually I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, 2:20:38.760 --> 2:20:42.280 and there's some great people on their helping addiction and 2:20:42.360 --> 2:20:45.600 all sorts of stuff, but it's jumbled up with people 2:20:45.640 --> 2:20:49.080 who are trying to put out art or music and 2:20:50.080 --> 2:20:52.720 there's no sort of division. So if there was a division, 2:20:53.160 --> 2:20:55.400 they tried to make one, like you know, YouTube for 2:20:55.600 --> 2:20:59.240 artists or Spotify for artists. But all of these things 2:20:59.320 --> 2:21:02.440 they don't realize is because look, when the mob was 2:21:02.560 --> 2:21:05.080 running things, to tell you the truth, it was a 2:21:05.160 --> 2:21:08.280 lot easier because like, at least they like music would 2:21:08.320 --> 2:21:10.360 come down the studio and give you drugs and money. 2:21:11.320 --> 2:21:13.480 But you know you don't get that from Google, right, 2:21:13.600 --> 2:21:15.840 the Google's like not going to pop in the studio, 2:21:16.000 --> 2:21:18.360 go hey, you'll do. And by the way, he's some coke. 2:21:19.160 --> 2:21:22.760 It's like now, it's just like when your money is 2:21:23.000 --> 2:21:29.160 disappearing into you know, some vacuous space and then they 2:21:29.320 --> 2:21:33.440 give in their annual returns of billions and schoollions and 2:21:34.560 --> 2:21:38.680 the tax was all avoided by all these schemes through 2:21:38.920 --> 2:21:41.920 Ireland and or whatever. And I'm just looking at it 2:21:42.000 --> 2:21:47.280 all and you know, um from a perspective of like 2:21:47.520 --> 2:21:50.920 a nineteen year old kid or whatever who's written a 2:21:51.040 --> 2:21:54.920 great song and he lives in Nebraska, and and I'm 2:21:55.000 --> 2:21:59.320 thinking it must just look like sort of like insanity. 2:22:00.120 --> 2:22:03.880 So I my suggestion to any of these kind of 2:22:04.120 --> 2:22:07.920 kids starting at is, look, I think the same thing 2:22:08.080 --> 2:22:10.160 might work is when I was a kid in the 2:22:10.240 --> 2:22:13.760 folk club. As you go and try and find somewhere 2:22:14.240 --> 2:22:18.440 to play, and you sing your songs to that small 2:22:18.520 --> 2:22:21.200 audience of ten, and then maybe he's twenty, and then 2:22:21.280 --> 2:22:25.160 maybe he's fifty. And forget about thinking that you've got 2:22:25.280 --> 2:22:30.400 like ninety six friends on Instagram or whatever. Just like 2:22:30.720 --> 2:22:33.320 go in your local town and then go to the 2:22:33.400 --> 2:22:37.080 town next door and the town next door. Somehow, Now 2:22:37.200 --> 2:22:41.039 that I'm creating some things that I think might help 2:22:41.120 --> 2:22:45.840 because there's so many ridiculous problems to play. You know, 2:22:45.920 --> 2:22:47.520 you used to actually get even when I played in 2:22:47.560 --> 2:22:49.960 a folk club, they would give me fifty pence some 2:22:50.160 --> 2:22:54.760 free beer. Now they're so, yeah, you can play here. No, no, 2:22:55.040 --> 2:22:57.800 we don't pay you, you can just you're allowed to 2:22:57.879 --> 2:23:02.080 play here. And so every we're all on the line. Musicians, 2:23:02.680 --> 2:23:06.880 young upcoming musicians and guys have been doing it for ages, 2:23:07.000 --> 2:23:09.680 but now they can't sell any records and the streaming 2:23:10.520 --> 2:23:17.080 is very low income. All of those people, all of 2:23:17.200 --> 2:23:20.279 the the ways in which they would make a living 2:23:20.440 --> 2:23:23.480 has been kind of stripped away now with the we're 2:23:23.560 --> 2:23:29.800 talking here while there's been the outbreak of coronavirus. So 2:23:30.200 --> 2:23:32.000 some people are going, well, we don't sell records, but 2:23:32.080 --> 2:23:35.680 we can play live now all the concerts are council. Now. 2:23:35.760 --> 2:23:39.640 I was meant to be playing from today actually at 2:23:40.080 --> 2:23:44.280 the Grammy Museum, just to talk in a performance and 2:23:44.400 --> 2:23:49.040 like so I had my drama fly from Philadelphia, not 2:23:49.160 --> 2:23:52.160 from Cleveland. Surrey and Judith Hill who was going to 2:23:52.640 --> 2:23:56.320 we all rehearsed yesterday and there was guitar tics and 2:23:56.520 --> 2:23:58.640 roadies and you know the amount of people you have 2:23:58.840 --> 2:24:03.360 to do something and then we're not doing it. Now 2:24:03.480 --> 2:24:06.760 put that on a scale times a million all around 2:24:06.800 --> 2:24:10.080 the world, whether you're a group in India or Thailand, 2:24:10.240 --> 2:24:14.960 or France or Italy or it's just that's been stripped 2:24:15.000 --> 2:24:20.480 away too, so nobody knows. When you know, the world's 2:24:20.520 --> 2:24:24.040 given the all clear, which I don't imagine a siren 2:24:24.120 --> 2:24:30.480 going off soon going everybody can come. So but I mean, 2:24:30.640 --> 2:24:34.800 you know this, the same problem has happened to car 2:24:35.200 --> 2:24:39.480 workers in the car industry or stuff all over the world. 2:24:39.560 --> 2:24:42.519 I think the one thing that people as a misconception 2:24:42.640 --> 2:24:48.480 about artists is I'm talking about you know, musical artists, 2:24:49.400 --> 2:24:52.080 is that soon as they put a single out or 2:24:52.080 --> 2:24:55.360 an EP or a video, people think they're making an income. 2:24:55.840 --> 2:24:57.879 Now they're not. It probably borrowed the money off their 2:24:57.920 --> 2:25:02.360 anti or their dad and they're probably isn't their dad's 2:25:02.520 --> 2:25:05.760 car and like to try and get to a gig, 2:25:05.959 --> 2:25:08.840 and if the dad has a car, I mean it's 2:25:08.920 --> 2:25:12.880 like it's it's just not easy and it's getting more 2:25:12.920 --> 2:25:16.080 and more tangled and complicating that it's just because all 2:25:16.160 --> 2:25:19.879 the corporations gobbled each other up. It started I'll tell 2:25:19.879 --> 2:25:22.480 you the beginning for me when I realized this is 2:25:22.560 --> 2:25:25.199 the beginning at the end. And it was the middle 2:25:25.240 --> 2:25:28.600 of the eighties and the head of the record label 2:25:29.560 --> 2:25:32.240 changed and a guy came in from Hurts rent a 2:25:32.320 --> 2:25:36.400 car to run our c A Records, and my manager 2:25:36.480 --> 2:25:40.600 was Gary Kerr first, who managed to talking B fifty two. 2:25:41.520 --> 2:25:44.040 You know it was, yeah, it was like kind of 2:25:45.240 --> 2:25:50.360 semi gangster, but but it great taste in music, the 2:25:50.440 --> 2:25:54.920 B fifty twos, talking heads, the Rabones, rhythmics. And he 2:25:55.080 --> 2:25:57.800 just said, I just can't talk to him. You're just 2:25:57.959 --> 2:26:01.240 like freaking out there. Just can't talk to the guy 2:26:01.320 --> 2:26:04.400 about music because he didn't understand and know anything. And 2:26:04.480 --> 2:26:06.720 I was going in to deliver an album called Be 2:26:06.840 --> 2:26:10.240 Yourself Tonight and he didn't want to go in there. 2:26:10.760 --> 2:26:14.480 Gary was like, I just give up, and so I said, 2:26:14.520 --> 2:26:17.800 I want to go and meet him and give the album. 2:26:17.920 --> 2:26:21.360 So he was a huge Colombian guy, and he and 2:26:21.480 --> 2:26:25.000 shook my hand nearly broke my fingers and he said 2:26:25.520 --> 2:26:28.280 Stewart loved the album, just like Ghostbusters, and I was like, 2:26:28.680 --> 2:26:36.080 like Ghostbusters, it's like what anyway? I thought, Okay, this 2:26:36.400 --> 2:26:40.200 is just the weirdest thing. And then you know, the 2:26:40.280 --> 2:26:43.880 whole murder case where his son's murder him and his wife. 2:26:44.560 --> 2:26:47.760 And then I'll find out through various people who been 2:26:47.879 --> 2:26:51.920 involved in all of those stories, like, oh, yeah, that's why. 2:26:52.040 --> 2:26:56.520 Because Tom Petty was confused why we were selling massive 2:26:56.560 --> 2:26:59.400 amount of albums around the world and the medium amount 2:26:59.400 --> 2:27:03.480 in America, but selling out everywhere, cover of rollings to 2:27:03.600 --> 2:27:06.000 everything you can imagined. And it was because he was 2:27:06.520 --> 2:27:10.560 printing them in Colombia and selling them through the Peacher's 2:27:10.680 --> 2:27:13.080 chain or something and putting it in the soft porn 2:27:13.160 --> 2:27:17.440 industry and laundering it through a talcompared to company and like, 2:27:18.720 --> 2:27:20.720 and I was kind of right when I walked in 2:27:20.840 --> 2:27:22.920 and thought this is the beginning of the end. It 2:27:23.040 --> 2:27:26.240 was actually when he said he had an idea, and 2:27:26.320 --> 2:27:28.960 it was we were going to be the CD was 2:27:29.000 --> 2:27:31.800 going to be on the top of a giant sized 2:27:31.920 --> 2:27:36.280 drink from a Hamburger chain, like pressed into the top, 2:27:37.000 --> 2:27:43.760 and I was like, I'm not sure about that. Yeah, 2:27:43.879 --> 2:27:46.560 And so it's just went pretty much downhill from there. 2:27:48.120 --> 2:27:51.000 When the Internet happened among these people that sort of 2:27:51.080 --> 2:27:56.160 early on kind of new things were coming, and I 2:27:56.280 --> 2:27:59.520 had friends who were like Internet sort of obsessed geeks 2:27:59.600 --> 2:28:02.880 in the the nineties, you know, and so when it 2:28:03.040 --> 2:28:05.200 was by the time it was two thousand and two 2:28:05.320 --> 2:28:08.480 thousand and one, and I could see what was going 2:28:08.520 --> 2:28:15.320 to happen. I actually I organized a meeting. This is crazy, 2:28:15.360 --> 2:28:20.000 but I think a quote in my book by the chairman, know, 2:28:20.720 --> 2:28:23.960 the board of Deutsche Bank, a guy called Michael Philip, 2:28:24.240 --> 2:28:28.840 who said, you know, I organized a meeting, and at 2:28:28.920 --> 2:28:32.920 that meeting turned up was like, you know, lou Reid 2:28:33.320 --> 2:28:41.560 Stevie Wonder, Dr Dre's guy. I can't remember anyway, you know, 2:28:42.200 --> 2:28:45.720 George Olivia Harrison, I can imagine all around one table 2:28:46.800 --> 2:28:50.200 and I did as this talk about the internet and 2:28:50.920 --> 2:28:55.240 how we have to sort of somehow take control over something. 2:28:55.840 --> 2:28:58.160 And he put a quote in my book he said, 2:28:58.720 --> 2:29:02.040 there's two talk for hours about the future of digital 2:29:02.280 --> 2:29:05.320 digitalization and the incident he says at a banker. I 2:29:05.320 --> 2:29:07.600 didn't know what the hell he was talking about. He said. 2:29:07.640 --> 2:29:09.720 Five years later we all found out. But it was 2:29:09.800 --> 2:29:12.880 like I could just see what was going to happen. 2:29:14.280 --> 2:29:17.480 And I had created this thing called fab you know, 2:29:17.600 --> 2:29:20.920 the first startist bank. Like this has to be some 2:29:21.080 --> 2:29:25.359 kind of bank vault, not literally for money for stuff, 2:29:26.040 --> 2:29:29.120 otherwise it's just going to be all over the place, right, 2:29:30.200 --> 2:29:35.920 and and you have no control over any taste. Right. 2:29:36.040 --> 2:29:40.080 So we make a video of sweet Dreams, and that's 2:29:40.080 --> 2:29:41.840 a video that was on the TV and you could 2:29:41.840 --> 2:29:44.160 see it, and we had control over the look and 2:29:44.240 --> 2:29:47.640 feel of it. Now you can type sweet dreams in 2:29:47.800 --> 2:29:50.000 Google and there will be hundreds of videos come up, 2:29:50.160 --> 2:29:55.640 and it's be anything from the dance girls dancing in 2:29:55.680 --> 2:30:02.120 a Betha to it to all sorts of of unimaginable things, 2:30:02.240 --> 2:30:05.960 you know, and it's like you have to almost just 2:30:06.280 --> 2:30:10.160 go well, okay, Like but imagine if you're a painter 2:30:10.360 --> 2:30:12.840 and just allowed like a hundred people coming out. I 2:30:12.920 --> 2:30:16.400 think I'll change that paint over that and that should 2:30:16.400 --> 2:30:18.400 be dark brand, you know, not red. What the hell 2:30:18.440 --> 2:30:22.680 are you doing? Like Picasso? You know? Okay, So today 2:30:23.200 --> 2:30:26.040 Spotify Top fifty is mostly hip hop. What's your view 2:30:26.120 --> 2:30:31.280 on hip hop? Uh? Well, funny enough, I love loads 2:30:31.400 --> 2:30:34.920 of I've always been very eclectic, so I love loads 2:30:34.920 --> 2:30:38.280 of hip hop music. I love lots of rap music, 2:30:38.360 --> 2:30:42.920 but obviously I'm drawn towards the ones that have kind 2:30:42.959 --> 2:30:47.560 of interesting lyrics to me, because I I do like 2:30:47.840 --> 2:30:51.000 loads of the beats that they create in hip hop 2:30:51.160 --> 2:30:54.680 music and all the all the transitional beats. I mean, 2:30:55.600 --> 2:30:59.520 I always was crazy about reggae music from the beginning, 2:31:00.040 --> 2:31:04.960 and I love lots of different Afro rhythms and King 2:31:05.080 --> 2:31:09.080 Sunnia Day and so when hip hop started experimenting and 2:31:09.240 --> 2:31:11.240 now you know trip hop and you know, all the 2:31:11.320 --> 2:31:15.480 different kinds of beats, I like it, but I'm not 2:31:16.040 --> 2:31:20.400 too keen on. You know, the tracks that just keep 2:31:20.480 --> 2:31:27.280 repeating the same misogynistic stuff are more keen on. Um. 2:31:28.000 --> 2:31:31.520 You know when they're saying something you know and which 2:31:32.800 --> 2:31:35.400 you know. There was some great n w A and 2:31:36.360 --> 2:31:38.840 when all that first came out, it was a very 2:31:38.920 --> 2:31:44.280 exciting moment in time, a bit like punk music coming out. Um. 2:31:45.080 --> 2:31:48.920 But again, what's happened is there's such an easy way 2:31:49.000 --> 2:31:54.720 to upload everything. So there's an avalanche of people making 2:31:54.720 --> 2:32:00.080 stuff in their bedroom on their laptop and then just 2:32:00.200 --> 2:32:03.520 putting it out everywhere YouTube, saying claud wherever you want, 2:32:04.080 --> 2:32:08.960 there's this stuff. So it's it's a labyrinth. You know. 2:32:09.040 --> 2:32:12.240 I've got four kids, all mad about music. Three of 2:32:12.280 --> 2:32:18.400 them are musicians, and you know they they have been 2:32:18.959 --> 2:32:23.400 basically exposed to this since they were bought right, so 2:32:24.280 --> 2:32:26.440 they can like with through all sorts of stuff and 2:32:27.320 --> 2:32:31.359 eliminate all this stuff. And but they still are overwhelmed. 2:32:31.400 --> 2:32:35.720 They'll say they're overwhelmed by everything. They're overwhelmed by the news, 2:32:36.320 --> 2:32:40.640 by the amount of bombardment of things coming at them 2:32:41.000 --> 2:32:45.760 in music, and and they actually struggle, like now what 2:32:45.920 --> 2:32:49.320 to do? They just want to do the real thing 2:32:49.959 --> 2:32:52.240 and be the real thing. Listen, as bad as it 2:32:52.400 --> 2:32:55.400 is for them, it's for the customer. You're completely overwhelmed, 2:32:56.160 --> 2:32:58.800 and uh, let's go. So in the time you have 2:32:58.959 --> 2:33:03.320 left here on the plane, what's the dream? Well, everything 2:33:03.600 --> 2:33:08.960 I'm doing really music is the intel inside of it. 2:33:09.879 --> 2:33:16.879 So I'm actually trying to create stuff with other people 2:33:17.360 --> 2:33:21.520 that helps the balance of that. Barbella was talking about 2:33:21.560 --> 2:33:26.440 tips lightly that way again, Um, I don't want to 2:33:26.720 --> 2:33:28.640 give away too much of the stuff I'm doing, but 2:33:28.800 --> 2:33:35.280 like it's to do with them ideas that changed the way. 2:33:36.120 --> 2:33:39.160 Oh just get to be able to play live. That 2:33:39.360 --> 2:33:41.520 doesn't cost them so much to do it, but they 2:33:41.600 --> 2:33:45.160 can still travel around, although that just changed in the 2:33:45.280 --> 2:33:51.480 last the last three days, you know. But it's usually 2:33:51.600 --> 2:33:57.800 to do with songs and what songs, the power of songs, 2:33:57.920 --> 2:34:01.720 what songs can do, how songs can help our music 2:34:01.840 --> 2:34:06.560 and help in various situations and things to do with 2:34:07.120 --> 2:34:14.240 um political social, political situations. But I only like to 2:34:14.360 --> 2:34:17.680 use things that I understand, which goes back to music 2:34:17.760 --> 2:34:24.840 as the intel inside. So you know, Um, for instance, 2:34:26.400 --> 2:34:28.400 not long ago, there was a film called A Private 2:34:28.480 --> 2:34:34.440 War and about Marie Colvin and you know journalists in France, 2:34:34.520 --> 2:34:37.800 and and a friend of mine and Just Stones actually 2:34:38.640 --> 2:34:40.480 is portrayed in the film. He was the guy who 2:34:40.560 --> 2:34:42.640 was with her and worked with her and everything. And 2:34:43.760 --> 2:34:46.640 he wrote the words to a song called take Good 2:34:46.720 --> 2:34:49.199 Care and we recorded and we gave it to Amnesty. 2:34:49.320 --> 2:34:52.280 And then it's just doing stuff in music all the time. 2:34:52.400 --> 2:34:55.760 Like I used to work with anit Erotic in trying 2:34:55.879 --> 2:34:59.920 to get Herman Wallace freed from the Angle of three 2:35:00.920 --> 2:35:05.520 in prison, which eventually he did get freed, but he'd 2:35:05.680 --> 2:35:08.560 already had cancer at that point. But you've been thirty 2:35:08.640 --> 2:35:13.880 years in solitary confinement. Um the stuff I did, you know, 2:35:14.840 --> 2:35:20.480 years ago, creating Nelson Mandela's four six four, and then 2:35:21.080 --> 2:35:24.160 he used music as the way to get it a 2:35:24.240 --> 2:35:29.119 bit of attention. But I like doing this stuff beforehand. 2:35:29.240 --> 2:35:33.080 That's preparing it so that it doesn't fizzle out like 2:35:33.200 --> 2:35:37.320 a firework, you know. Um, And I just continue doing 2:35:37.400 --> 2:35:40.119 that stuff. I mean, I love writing songs, I must admit, 2:35:41.040 --> 2:35:47.520 and I actually have gone back to I didn't tell 2:35:47.560 --> 2:35:50.240 you one bit at the beginning. But like my dad's 2:35:51.360 --> 2:35:53.320 I give him a lot of credit from blowing my 2:35:53.400 --> 2:35:55.680 mind with music when I was about four or five, 2:35:56.680 --> 2:35:59.360 because he had a tiny little workshop and in it 2:36:00.720 --> 2:36:04.960 he built these little wooden speakers. He got to speak 2:36:05.000 --> 2:36:08.680 assent from Germany, Grundy, he must have written away to them, 2:36:09.200 --> 2:36:12.920 and he built these lovely oak cabinets, and then he 2:36:13.040 --> 2:36:16.920 had made it himself, like all this record deck and 2:36:17.040 --> 2:36:20.080 put it inside this wooden thing. I didn't know what 2:36:20.160 --> 2:36:21.560 the hell it was. He just wouldn't let me in 2:36:21.600 --> 2:36:24.520 the workshow because the last time I was in there, 2:36:24.600 --> 2:36:26.760 I put the drill on the cat by the stake, 2:36:27.320 --> 2:36:29.200 and the cat was spinning around and round when he 2:36:29.320 --> 2:36:32.280 came in but not knowing what I was doing. But 2:36:33.600 --> 2:36:37.120 about eight o'clock in the morning one morning, when I 2:36:37.200 --> 2:36:42.960 was about five, this whole little Coronation Street type house 2:36:43.160 --> 2:36:46.920 just exploded with music. Because my dad had bought every 2:36:47.040 --> 2:36:50.960 Rogers and Hammerstein album and then he just put it on, 2:36:51.560 --> 2:36:53.200 and I think it was the King and I or 2:36:53.280 --> 2:36:58.880 something like that. And I'd never heard music loud and 2:36:59.000 --> 2:37:04.480 with such amazing quality, and so I had forgotten this 2:37:04.600 --> 2:37:08.400 for years, and then it I remembered why am I 2:37:08.640 --> 2:37:12.440 was singing like bits of flower drums, song and sounds 2:37:12.440 --> 2:37:15.480 specific and the King and I, And then I remember 2:37:15.520 --> 2:37:18.000 that's what it was. Every morning you would sing along 2:37:18.040 --> 2:37:19.680 with him and put them on. You know, we all 2:37:19.760 --> 2:37:21.520 that's our error. We all grew up with it. James 2:37:21.600 --> 2:37:23.920 Taylor has a new album. The last track is you 2:37:24.000 --> 2:37:28.440 know Sorry with a fringe on top. It's like our roots. Meanwhile, 2:37:28.480 --> 2:37:32.280 this has been wonderful, Dave. You know you're loquacious and 2:37:32.520 --> 2:37:36.360 very insightful. We could talk forever, but we're gonna go 2:37:36.480 --> 2:37:39.160 back into the rain. Great to have you here, Thanks 2:37:39.200 --> 2:37:41.240 for doing it. I just stole the title. If you're 2:37:41.320 --> 2:37:45.959 right there, Back into the rain absolutely till next time. 2:37:46.040 --> 2:37:47.080 This is Bob left set