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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is a true legend, Dave Stewart. You

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Speaker 1: know him as Half the Rhythmics, you know him as

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Speaker 1: a songwriter, you know him as a producer. Day great

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Speaker 1: to have you here, Thanks very much. I'm glad we're

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Speaker 1: here and inside and not outside. It's pouring with rain

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Speaker 1: right now, right. You know, it's funny because when I

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Speaker 1: used to hear that song, it never rains in southern California.

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Speaker 1: I said, well, you know what, really, you know, I

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Speaker 1: thought it was like a joke, but it really never rains.

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Speaker 1: But when it rains, it does pour. It's funny watching

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Speaker 1: everybody panic here in Los Angeles when it rains, because

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Speaker 1: where I'm from it's so sort of rainy and cold.

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Speaker 1: But the rain is different. See, the incomes sideways with

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Speaker 1: a wind with it. Right. So, when I was little

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Speaker 1: walking to school and you have to wear short pants,

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Speaker 1: you know, when I got to school, one side of

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Speaker 1: my I was always covered in little dots where the

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Speaker 1: rain was like, Okay, where exactly did you grow up?

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Speaker 1: I grew up in northeast of England, in a place

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Speaker 1: called Sunderland, which is was looked at as the poor

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Speaker 1: cousin to Newcastle, you know, because for instance, Newcastle was

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Speaker 1: you know, a bit of a bigger and named a city,

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Speaker 1: and Sundland was a town when I was growing up,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we got all so second sort of

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Speaker 1: handoff things. So if you went to the vegetable shop,

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Speaker 1: the vegetables were all the sort of monkey vegetables are

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Speaker 1: a bit bruised because the rest went to London, you know,

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Speaker 1: everything was And when I was growing up, of course,

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Speaker 1: it was a period when they closed the railways and

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Speaker 1: they closed the coal mines so and shipbuilding, which was

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Speaker 1: the biggest thing in the town. They closed the shipyards.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know if you've seen a thing called

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Speaker 1: Billy Elliott. So that's a little bit so about twelve

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Speaker 1: miles from where I was. But you know, it's all

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Speaker 1: about the minor's strikes and that's all a similar sort

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Speaker 1: of scenario or where you've got, I think in my

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Speaker 1: town of something like unemployment with men who were used

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Speaker 1: to working in the shipyards, in the coal mines or

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Speaker 1: whatever and at least bringing home something for their family

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Speaker 1: and now they've got all usunemployment and strange tactics you know,

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Speaker 1: to calm people down. So a brewery came out with

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Speaker 1: a beer that's a penny a pints kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: and of course then everybody gets so completely addicted to drinking,

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Speaker 1: and then fights and brawls start up. And so when

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Speaker 1: I was sort of about thirteen or fourteen, um, it

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Speaker 1: was a weird sort of the duality of things happening,

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Speaker 1: because you could get the enemy or the melody maker

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Speaker 1: from one little newsagent shot up and you're kind of

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Speaker 1: reading about some kind of hippie psychedelic movement. Meanwhile Europe

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Speaker 1: in the northeast of England, where people are rolling around

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Speaker 1: on the ground fighting, you know, just generally miserable and

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Speaker 1: like no future. A bit like later on that happened,

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Speaker 1: you know, when the sex Pistons came out with pretty

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Speaker 1: Vacant and all that stuff. But it was already happening,

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Speaker 1: you know. Okay, you know a lot of my listeners

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Speaker 1: are American. Not that we don't reach the world. We're

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Speaker 1: ignorant in America. We don't know England. How far is

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Speaker 1: Sunderland from London? Were roughly really far and how it's

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Speaker 1: near the border of Scotland. That was my question. How

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Speaker 1: far from Scotland about sixty five miles very close. So

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Speaker 1: you would, you know, for those of us who are unfamiliar,

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Speaker 1: would you go to Scotland. Oh, yeah, Scotland's a very

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Speaker 1: beautiful place, and so is the northeast of England, you know, Northumbria.

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Speaker 1: American might have seen it if they watched the History

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Speaker 1: Channel where the Vikings came over and slaughtered most of

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Speaker 1: the population of my hometown. They started with the monks

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Speaker 1: and they landed on Linda's farn, remember remember the yeah

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Speaker 1: I knew them, actually a great man, but Linda's fan

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Speaker 1: where the monks made very peaceful and the Vikings landed

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Speaker 1: there and couldn't understand why they weren't fighting back, so

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Speaker 1: they were just chopping everybody up. And so that's the

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Speaker 1: first sort of Biking invasion to Britain. Then they realized, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is going to be easier. Nobody fights back. Of

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Speaker 1: course they didn't realize that we had castles and stuff

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Speaker 1: further inland. Um so, but I think, you know, I've

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Speaker 1: got Viking blood most people from the northeast, you know,

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Speaker 1: where they were just raped and pillage going back. So

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Speaker 1: if you do a DNA tests, lots of us have

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Speaker 1: like Norwegian, Danish or scan an Avian in the DNA.

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Speaker 1: You know, have you done the DNA test? Well, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to because I personally think that it's going

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Speaker 1: to be used. It could be used later on in

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Speaker 1: a very sort of scary way, just the same way

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Speaker 1: as everybody's selling data and information about everything your DNA.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure they could do the same thing. And also

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Speaker 1: when things right rise up, you know, fascist movements, so whatever. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't want to people

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Speaker 1: to know their exact genetic history, you know, well I

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Speaker 1: don't want to know. I don't want to, you know,

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Speaker 1: to find out all these people in my history and

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Speaker 1: come tracking me down and there's a lot of stories.

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Speaker 1: Unless you do it at a really high level, you

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Speaker 1: get inaccurate results anyway. So what did your parents do

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Speaker 1: for a living in Sunderland? Well, my father when he

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Speaker 1: was his dad was working in the shipyard just for

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Speaker 1: the how far asunderland from the water, our Sundland's on

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Speaker 1: the water on the Yeah, you see we have the

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Speaker 1: river where which has had a large you know, it

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Speaker 1: was a large river in the mouth, so they could

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Speaker 1: build as big ships as only Japanese and Sunderland that

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Speaker 1: were the biggest ship building towns in the world. And

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Speaker 1: obviously when something closes down then you don't really hear

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Speaker 1: of it. But if you read in the history of it, Okay,

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Speaker 1: just to be very clear, Sunderlands, how far from Newcastle

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Speaker 1: are about fourteen miles? And why was the ship building

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Speaker 1: in Sunderland as opposed to New Newcastle. I think it

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Speaker 1: was just the narrowness of the river in Newcastle and

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Speaker 1: the width of the river in Sundland. So when they

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Speaker 1: launched these giant ships so which were enormous. I remember

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Speaker 1: once as a school kid, we got taken to the

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Speaker 1: side of the launch, you know, and it was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, as a kid, it was just like, well,

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Speaker 1: it's like three streets of houses, you know. Um. In fact,

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Speaker 1: there's a there was a Japanese chap who worked out

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Speaker 1: when they got lost inside a ship that big, big

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Speaker 1: wan they're trying to build it, they had to have

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Speaker 1: a method of to work out where they were. Oh really, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I can't remember his name, it's thing us Away

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Speaker 1: Ketami or something like that. He Um, he worked out

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Speaker 1: a thing and now they call it the fishbone method,

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Speaker 1: which is still used in many other. Well, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I went out a really large ship for this event.

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Speaker 1: And the little fish in the row and the carpets

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Speaker 1: you know which direction you were going exactly. Yeah, But

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Speaker 1: he divided it up into bones on a fish so

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Speaker 1: that you knew you were in section you know, three B,

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Speaker 1: and that's where this rivet had to go into this thing.

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Speaker 1: And my dad's father worked in the shipyard and a

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Speaker 1: lot of men would go deaf because they had to

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Speaker 1: hold the giants or washer and rivet on one side,

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Speaker 1: where another guy sort of bashed on the boat on

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Speaker 1: the other. So there's ringing in the ears and and

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Speaker 1: so my dad didn't really have any shoes until he

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Speaker 1: was about nine or ten. He used to play football

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Speaker 1: soccer in the street with the pigs bladder from the

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Speaker 1: butcher's so they would blow up the pigs bladder and

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Speaker 1: then let it dry and then that would become their football.

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Speaker 1: And so when he was sixteen, his dad saved for

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Speaker 1: about ten years and bought my dad a bicycle, you know,

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Speaker 1: on his sixteenth birthday, so he could go and into

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Speaker 1: the town and get a job as somebody who delivers

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Speaker 1: things on a bicycle. On a first day, he came

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Speaker 1: out of this office where he was delivering something. Somebody

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Speaker 1: had stolen it. He had to walk all the way

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Speaker 1: home in tears. So so my dad then, you know,

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Speaker 1: about a year and a half later, was told, well,

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Speaker 1: now you have to go and be in the army

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Speaker 1: or the air force or whatever, because war broke out

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Speaker 1: and he he wanted to be in the air force.

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Speaker 1: And then the most bizarre thing happened. A lot of

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Speaker 1: these guys said, okay, we are you going to get

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Speaker 1: on this ship? And the ship ended up in India, right,

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Speaker 1: And it was in India for like four and a

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Speaker 1: half years. And what they had they had sort of

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Speaker 1: planes there that were sort of hidden as reconnaissance planes, um,

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Speaker 1: because the Japanese had started to sort of come into

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Speaker 1: the war. And he was so confused because he'd never

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Speaker 1: been out of Sunderland and it was suddenly boiling hot

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Speaker 1: in Calcutta. And but then years later, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: a lot happens when men are grouped together into a

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Speaker 1: situation like that. He always flex on it like it

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Speaker 1: was the best time with you know, all these guys

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Speaker 1: from his hometown mixed with guys from other places. I

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Speaker 1: think the ship on the way there held about or

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Speaker 1: something that we're all throwing up all over the place

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Speaker 1: because it was never been on a ship, and it

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Speaker 1: was miles when they got I think when they got

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Speaker 1: to Glasgow to chain ships, they thought they were there.

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Speaker 1: They'd never been anywhere. Yeah, and so then they were

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Speaker 1: really confused when they got put on another ship, and

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Speaker 1: then they were like days and days and days and days.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, and my mom, she her mother um, brought

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Speaker 1: up four girls on her own, running a pub, you know,

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Speaker 1: like a bar in the coal mining area of Sunderland

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Speaker 1: where all the coal miners would come covered in coal

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Speaker 1: and stuff to drink. Yeah, after they came out of

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Speaker 1: the mine. But her father, remember this father died when

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Speaker 1: she was nine of consumption, which is a little bit

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Speaker 1: like I suppose you get with the coronavirus, speeded up

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Speaker 1: your long sort of you can't breathe anymore. Basically, was

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Speaker 1: he a coal miner, Uh no, I think you might

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Speaker 1: have worked at the pit, but I don't think he

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Speaker 1: was in mind that I went down. Obviously I never

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Speaker 1: got to meet him. But so what happened was, and

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Speaker 1: this happened probably in America too, is my mom was

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Speaker 1: working as office girl runner kind of person in the town,

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Speaker 1: and the guy who ran that company said, all the

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Speaker 1: girls here, here's a soldier and an address. You must

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Speaker 1: write to them while they're away. Yeah, and be a

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Speaker 1: pen pal. So my dad would get a letter like

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Speaker 1: once a month in India somehow from this, and he

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Speaker 1: called Sadie and of course they fell in love over

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Speaker 1: the letters. Right, So immediately he returned and her twin

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Speaker 1: sister had been right into another guy, so they had

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Speaker 1: a double marriage twins with two soldiers returning. And I

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Speaker 1: have to since your mother is a twin, I my

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Speaker 1: girlfriend's a twin, right. How close was she with her sister?

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Speaker 1: Are ridiculous because they were identical twins, and strange things

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Speaker 1: would happen, like evidently when me and my brother came,

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Speaker 1: the twin sister would ring up my mom, who was asleep,

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Speaker 1: to tell her the milk was boiling over wow, and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. You know, my my girlfriend talked about

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff too. They say, they sure a brain,

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Speaker 1: they'll show up wearing the same clothes, and so so

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Speaker 1: much so that when I was that was pretty sort

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Speaker 1: of kind of a rough place when I was growing up,

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Speaker 1: So a number of sort of run ins or sort

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Speaker 1: of running away really from kids rough you know, kids

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Speaker 1: or wanted to have fights and stuff. At one time,

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Speaker 1: this score here on my wrist. Those these kids caught

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Speaker 1: hold of me in a field and they were trying

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Speaker 1: to sort of cut me up with something. They couldn't

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Speaker 1: find anything, and they got a rusty old tiner peas

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Speaker 1: and they started like rubbing the lid on my arm

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Speaker 1: till it sort of slipped my wrist. Well. Of course,

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Speaker 1: I ran into the shop where my mom was working,

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Speaker 1: a little newsagent that sold newspapers and snuff and tobacco.

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Speaker 1: And the blood was just spurting up all over the

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Speaker 1: black and white newspapers, and I thought it was my mom,

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Speaker 1: but it was my mom's twin sister, and she she

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Speaker 1: was obviously screaming like but they immediately did the right

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Speaker 1: thing and tied a sort of teetowl around my arm

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Speaker 1: and held it up in the air, and then I

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Speaker 1: had to walk down the hill to her children's hospital.

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Speaker 1: The way I think guys titched it up with no

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Speaker 1: anesthetic or anything. It was just like, oh, come here, son,

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Speaker 1: like you. But so yeah, maybe we would often confuse

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Speaker 1: my mom and to insist it was bizarre. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: they stayed married. They stayed married till my mom, who

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Speaker 1: had to work in the pub with her mother from

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Speaker 1: the age of eleven, so never really went to school,

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Speaker 1: and so she didn't really understand her intelligence to My

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Speaker 1: brother went to the grammar school, and he was bringing

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Speaker 1: home books and talking to his friends about their homework,

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Speaker 1: and she was really interested in this stuff they were

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Speaker 1: talking about, and so she saw that they ever seen

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Speaker 1: Julia of the Spirits. I haven't seen her, Bama aware

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Speaker 1: of it. I've seen a woman under the influence, of course. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so can you imagine that sort of housewife in the house.

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Speaker 1: My dad's now at work every day and doing night

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Speaker 1: schools to try and you know, get a better position,

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Speaker 1: and she's starting to lose her mind because so boring

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Speaker 1: and everybody is talking about, you know, the price of

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Speaker 1: fish and this, and she's kind of got like in

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Speaker 1: her head some philosophy and a bit of Shakespeare whatever

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Speaker 1: my brother's been studying. And so she thought she was

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Speaker 1: going crazy, and so much so that my mom actually

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Speaker 1: went to a mental hospital, and I remember cycling to

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Speaker 1: see her visit her. It's very distressing because they immediately

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Speaker 1: put you on some kind of drug and then they

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Speaker 1: started giving her a series of electric shock treatments, which

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Speaker 1: lou Reid taught to me about. You know, he had

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Speaker 1: electric shock treatments. His parents sort of and sisted he

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Speaker 1: get them. Thought he was mad and so um. But

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Speaker 1: one day a miraculous thing happened, which is some people

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Speaker 1: are just stunning, right. So a guy comes to the hospital,

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Speaker 1: a new younger guy to be ahead of it instead,

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Speaker 1: I want to see every patient. Taught them for a

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Speaker 1: while and listening and at the end of talking to

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Speaker 1: my mom and this he said, uh said he, I

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Speaker 1: really don't think there's much wrong with you. I think

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Speaker 1: you really are really intelligent. And you need to go

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Speaker 1: to a night school or something and study and and

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Speaker 1: I personally will take you and drive you there twice

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Speaker 1: a week. Yeah, and he did, and she then immediately

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Speaker 1: started to sort of feel better and absorbed in what

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Speaker 1: when this was happening, Well, I was about ten eleven twelve,

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Speaker 1: and she went to college past a lot of exams

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Speaker 1: and matriculated into Durham University, which is very difficult university

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Speaker 1: to get in, and got an honors degree and went

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Speaker 1: to London, left my dad and became a teacher. Then

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Speaker 1: a headmistress of a school for children with special needs.

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Speaker 1: So um, my dad though, he got really depressed and

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Speaker 1: he didn't want to leave. But she used to say

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Speaker 1: something really great. It was like I didn't have the

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Speaker 1: the strength to stay or something like that. It was

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Speaker 1: like it was so difficult for her to now not

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Speaker 1: continue the journey, you know. And then she met a

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Speaker 1: zen Buddhist guy called Julian. It's incredible story and I

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Speaker 1: thought would be a brilliant opening to her re sort

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Speaker 1: of beautiful story of a love um in a you know,

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Speaker 1: some low budget film, but they cically, she met this

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Speaker 1: woman that when she arrived in London who was going

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Speaker 1: to the same sort of the next step you have

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Speaker 1: to take to become teaching at special school. And this

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Speaker 1: lady was called Begonia and she had a husband called Julian,

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Speaker 1: but they were kind of sleeping in separate bedrooms. But

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Speaker 1: she'd heard her talk about this amazing woman called Sadia

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Speaker 1: is coming for tea. So Julia he got sort of

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Speaker 1: one of those boards that you wear around your neck

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Speaker 1: and wrote on it, the ice caps are slowly melting.

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Speaker 1: Everybody is in great danger. For more information, ring this

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Speaker 1: number just back in like nine eight or something like that,

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Speaker 1: and because he read a book by Fred Hoyle called Ice,

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Speaker 1: which was predicted exactly what's happening. And so my mom

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Speaker 1: was coming down a street in Roustall and Hill in

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Speaker 1: Hampstead out of the tube station or what you call

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Speaker 1: the subway, and there's this guy with a long, funny

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Speaker 1: gray beard and hair sticking out everywhere, ringing a bell

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Speaker 1: with his sign. And the reason he was doing that

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Speaker 1: is because he had to d visions, so he couldn't

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Speaker 1: you know, he had to be make sure that Sadie

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Speaker 1: saw the sign. And she stopped him and she said, hey,

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Speaker 1: excuse me, there's some mistake here. That's my telephone. And

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Speaker 1: he said, Sadie, I've been dying to meet you, right,

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Speaker 1: And they basically fell madly in love and ended up

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Speaker 1: getting married. And my dad did the most amazing thing.

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Speaker 1: He came to London and gave her away like a father,

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Speaker 1: would you know? Yeah, So did he ever find somebody new?

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Speaker 1: He did later on, but it took him almost to

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Speaker 1: that point to so of let go. And so it

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Speaker 1: was amazing. And Julian became a very large influence on me,

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Speaker 1: being a Sain Buddhist and funny enough when Bob Dylan

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Speaker 1: used to come around my house in London Tour East.

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Speaker 1: Then I bought my mom a little flat round the

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Speaker 1: corner before we would go somewhere else. You go, hey,

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Speaker 1: how about we go and see that Julian guy again,

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Speaker 1: And we would go there and Julian had no idea

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Speaker 1: who he was. And you know, Julian wrote haiku poetry

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Speaker 1: that was translated back into Japanese, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: pretty tricky thing to do when you're from Brittany and

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Speaker 1: you're writing in English. So you're from France writing in

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Speaker 1: English and it's translated into Japanese. But my favorite one

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Speaker 1: that he wrote because he never used any food, you know,

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Speaker 1: that was brought to that my mom made. He lived

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Speaker 1: completely from stuff you found on the street. You know,

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Speaker 1: you lived by his words. So he knew the baker's shop.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't stupid, so that would put out the bent classant,

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Speaker 1: you know, on the morning and night, but it was

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Speaker 1: still nice and warm. Then he would see the guy

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Speaker 1: who always went to work and put his Sunday and

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Speaker 1: the Times newspaper in the bin. They just pulled that

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Speaker 1: out and eat the cross on. And he just lived

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Speaker 1: like that for it. You know, even when she met him,

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00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,560
Speaker 1: he was doing that, so she was used to it.

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00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 1: But he wrote this great hyper hiker, was this dunk

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Speaker 1: to biscuit? Will it won't it reach my mouth? That's

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00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,639
Speaker 1: how much she was into, like just you know the

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00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,119
Speaker 1: moment when he wrote other great ones like between the

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00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 1: Slabs of Gone Civilizations the grass grows right. So, but

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00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 1: yet every now and he would write a fun one.

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Speaker 1: You know, did he have a paying job. No, he didn't,

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00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 1: you know, any paying job. But he didn't actually have

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00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 1: any money or spend any money. And he didn't you know,

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Speaker 1: he he would find everything. I would come around. He

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00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 1: always called my mom poppet. Right, He's French, and if

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Speaker 1: I were, oh, David, David, He's found an electronic chest

349
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Speaker 1: set somebody had thrown away and plugged it in. It's

350
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 1: having having a wonderful day playing against you know. He

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00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,880
Speaker 1: always had something going on. Okay, and your father did

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00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,959
Speaker 1: what for a living? Well, my father worked for the

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Speaker 1: same firm that my mother wrote to him from. So

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Speaker 1: this guy was a lovely guy called Allan J. Gray.

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Speaker 1: And it was like a firm of accountants that would

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00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,679
Speaker 1: when I say accountants, they would do go into a

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00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 1: little shop that sold everything from rubber bands to comics,

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00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 1: and they had to take stock of the whole thing

359
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,199
Speaker 1: and help them work out their tacks and everything, and

360
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 1: things like guys who would back their lorry into the

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Speaker 1: sea and get coal out of the sea. So it

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00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 1: was nobody's and then but it was covered in salt,

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00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 1: just all sorts of mad stuff, right, So he worked

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Speaker 1: his way up from being the tea boy there because

365
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Speaker 1: when my mom married him, of course, the same guy,

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Speaker 1: Allen J. Gray, who owned it, said, well, then we

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00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 1: come and work in here a bit, and then you

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00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 1: realize you're smart, so you kind of went up the ladder,

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00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: said night school. A lot of people used to help

370
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 1: each other outs, just had the war, you know, it

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00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 1: was like they'd all come back, these soldiers, no jobs, nothing.

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Speaker 1: And he worked his way all the way up to

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Speaker 1: becoming a partner. Yeah, but a tiny little it wasn't

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Speaker 1: even it was in seam Harbor, which is and even smaller,

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Speaker 1: tiny little town, not even town or village, just outside

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00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 1: of Sunderland. But it was a big thing for the

377
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Speaker 1: family because we lived in a house like you know

378
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Speaker 1: when you watch Beatles help you know, the houses are

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00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 1: just a Coronation Street. Well, that's exactly where we lived,

380
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Speaker 1: and to tell you through it, it was very happy

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00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 1: little row of streets because the neighbors all had the

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Speaker 1: doors open. It didn't matter if I I'd be like

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Speaker 1: six or seven, I'd run into a neighbor three up

384
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 1: for jam and bread. You know, just everybody just was helped.

385
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Speaker 1: You know. The big thing my dad had an allotment

386
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: where he had would grow new potatoes and then once

387
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: every four months or something, the neighbors would all come

388
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: around the house and eat new potatoes with butter and

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00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,199
Speaker 1: mint salt, and that was the big thing of the

390
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 1: of the week, you know. Okay, so you grew up

391
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,719
Speaker 1: your other brother. Your brother is older. Yeah, my brother's

392
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: five years older than me. And what is he doing

393
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 1: right now? Well he's retired now. But before that, he

394
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 1: started off with a bumpy start. He went to Liverpool

395
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 1: University where he wanted to study law, but he wasn't

396
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: sure what he wanted to do when he chose that.

397
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: The first week there, he was in a fish and

398
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: chip shop where a fight broke out and somebody was

399
00:24:55,560 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 1: stabbed and murdered. So because it was a gang, he

400
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: was then told we had to go back to Sundland

401
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,439
Speaker 1: and and he would have protection when he had appear

402
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 1: in court as a witness. But he couldn't be in

403
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: Liverpool anymore basically, so he was really depressed and he

404
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: went on a job picking tomatoes in Guernsey and things

405
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: like that, and then he eventually ended up going to

406
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: a college in London and studying to be a teacher.

407
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 1: But he didn't like that either. He was just always

408
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: obsessed with film. I remember even when I was a kid,

409
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 1: he was like I had acted in his film, you know,

410
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: And there's some funny films my dad has. When my

411
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: brother's got the camera and like my brother's given me

412
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: like a toy cowboy gun. I'm about nine or something

413
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 1: and he's like giving me my lines and everything, but

414
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: I'm really annoyed. I'm gonna just see me run at

415
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 1: the camera with the back of hit him on the

416
00:25:55,640 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: head and the cameras falls over. So okay, so you're

417
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: in Sunderland, you're growing up. Are you the type of

418
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: kid who's popular? Do you have friends? How do you

419
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: do in school? Um? Now I was when I to

420
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,719
Speaker 1: what's called the eleven plus they have a different name

421
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: for here, you know, it's but it's basically when you're

422
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 1: eleven and you do this exam and it decides where

423
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: you go to and the same as when you would

424
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 1: do it here for college. However, but you're only eleven

425
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: years old, and my brother had already got into what

426
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: was called Bead Grammar School for boys. Now Bead was

427
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: named after the Venerable Bead, which even though I'm from

428
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: the northeast of you know, Sunderland, like the churches and

429
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,479
Speaker 1: things or a thousand years old, you know, it's like

430
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: so Bead was the first person to sort of like

431
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 1: right down the official English language, you know. So if

432
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 1: you go to Durham Cathedral which near there, he can

433
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: see Venerable Beads writings and stuff. So he got into

434
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: this school and it was a grammar school. Now grammar

435
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: school that means your parents pay for it. No, No,

436
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:22,199
Speaker 1: grammar school is when you've got very good marks on

437
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 1: your eleven plus so nobody pays for it. That's like

438
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: a private schools. Just and when the Labor government came in,

439
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: they scrapped grammar schools because I said it was unfair

440
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 1: that you would have some people in a secondary school.

441
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,239
Speaker 1: But the grammar school had the better teachers or whatever. Well,

442
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: what happened when I took my MN plus, I actually,

443
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: even though I actually didn't know what I was doing,

444
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: somehow I got very good marks. That was only about

445
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:59,199
Speaker 1: three kids chosen to go into a special school in

446
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 1: durham Um that had you know, kids with you know,

447
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 1: gifts in certain areas. And but I can't complained like

448
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 1: mad for my parents to let me go to the

449
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 1: same school as my brother. So they eventually gave in.

450
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: And because my dad had now become a bit higher

451
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: up in the accountancy firm, he thought, okay, I'll get

452
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: a house where the fence joins that school, and then

453
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: he usually clearly cut the sort of cut secretly on

454
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: a Saturday, this kind of hole in the fence and

455
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: put hinges on it that you couldn't see. So I

456
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: didn't have to go all the way around all the streets.

457
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: I could go out the back garden open the hole

458
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: in the fence. You wanted to go to the grammar

459
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: schools opposed to other school because because my brother went

460
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: there and I was scared to go to Diramote was

461
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: like ten miles away something. And well I made a

462
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: bit of a mistake because like. Then a year later

463
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: they changed the law and there was no grammar schools.

464
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: Everything was called a comprehensive school. And so where we

465
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: lived was right next to a very rough housing estate,

466
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: like a project. And of course so all the kids

467
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: who were that the grammar school just they weren't liked

468
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: by their kids from the projects. And I was particularly

469
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: not like because I was a bit sort of I

470
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: don't know, probably eccentric or whatever. And I would do

471
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: all sorts of things that I thought they might like,

472
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: but there was always the wrong thing, you know what,

473
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: I mean to try and befriend them. And then when

474
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: I look back, and I actually wrote a book called

475
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: The Business Playground where I put one of the things

476
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: I were doing it as kind of the wrong thing

477
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: to do. And I managed to make a sort of

478
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: trick shop machine right that if you had both hands

479
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: held of these two things, I would like wind the

480
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: handle and it it would give them electric shop. Well, obviously

481
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: that's not going to go down well. In my mind,

482
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: I thought they'd enjoy it, but I must go back

483
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: to my mom getting electric shot. I don't know. But

484
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: so I got into you know, very sort of lonely

485
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: kind of position there and The only thing I thought

486
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: I could do is I joined all the sports teams.

487
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: You know, I want to play everything, And so I

488
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: was played soccer like three times on a Saturday for

489
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: three different teams. I did pole vaulting. Sounds odd, but

490
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: I did it and highest you clear, I don't know, Um,

491
00:30:53,000 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Actually it's about sort of probably twice

492
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: the height of me at the time. But the worst

493
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: part about it was this wasn't like poll vaulting you've

494
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: seen in the Olympics. You know where the pool bends.

495
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: This is like the poll doesn't hardly budge, and it's

496
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: like metal and it hits in the teeth, you know.

497
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: So anyway, you know, during that soccer sort of I

498
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: suppose obsession. I actually had my knee broken really badly,

499
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: has put in hospital, and when surgeon spoke to me

500
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: after the operation, he was really chirpy and he was going, yeah,

501
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: let's be great. You know, you'll be up and walking

502
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: in six months and probably playing football in a year.

503
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: And I was like what And honestly, I I was

504
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: so depressed. I had no idea. Um. I had to

505
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: get my head around that, like what to do for

506
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: six months? Can't walk? And my brother brought in and

507
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: all you know when you go around some of his house,

508
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 1: and I've got a Spanish guitar, dusty with castanets, and

509
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: nobody's ever played it. My grandma had one of those,

510
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: my grandmother, and he brought it in with about three

511
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: strings on it, and I was like, what am I

512
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: going to do with this? I wasn't even interested in music,

513
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: even though my brother had come home once and seen

514
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: seen the Beatles play at the sound An Empire and

515
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: was trying to explain it. I was just saying, so,

516
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,959
Speaker 1: and did your parents play music in the house. Nope?

517
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: My mom when she ran about this time, my mom,

518
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: you know, had come back from the mental hospital and

519
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: being gone, and she had discovered Ray Charles. But now

520
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: I realized why she kept playing take these Chains from

521
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: my Heart, Set Me Free right, which she played over

522
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: and over again till I was give us a break.

523
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: But but what happened was in the hospital I realized

524
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 1: I could pick out a chun on one string really easy,

525
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: like a workout at tune. So when I got home,

526
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: my brother had another guitar, but he'd gone off to

527
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: pick tomatoes and then was going to college, and so

528
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: I picked up this other guitar, and the guy around

529
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: the corner to me, his father was in a Japanese

530
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: prison of war camp and he stayed alive by he

531
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: made a guitar out of the floorboards or some wood

532
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: and wires and things to entertain his you know, other guys.

533
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: But I think most of them were tortured to death, right,

534
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: so he was one of the few survivors. And funnily enough,

535
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: his son just told me today's dad was just a

536
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: hundred and one, was still talking and doing talks actually,

537
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: and things like that. But he I realized he played

538
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: this guitar. So I went round his house and he

539
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: was really pleased, like, oh, good, well done. Ka, Yeah,

540
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: I'll show you how you do a few things. But

541
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: I didn't realize he didn't really play the guitar in

542
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: normal way. He just invented a tuning and was just

543
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: putting his finger across it and growing up and down,

544
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 1: and he kind of tried to invent quasi Japanese English

545
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: things so the guards wouldn't sort, you know, be too

546
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 1: tough on him. And so I went away from that thinking, okay,

547
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: I'll try and play that. And then my brother and

548
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: my cousin simultaneously. My brother was now eighteen and he'd

549
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: got into blues music, and my cousin, who I know,

550
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: it sounds like it was our family. But at the

551
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: age of about thirteen, this is in Sunland, where I'm

552
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 1: trying to talk in a much more sort of like

553
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: an accent that's not too strong, say my normal accent.

554
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 1: You wouldn't really understand. Can you do it for the

555
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: last a little bit? Sure? What do you want me

556
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 1: to say? Continue the story with your normal accent? All right?

557
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: Well me cousin Ian who lived in South Sas Okay, Okay,

558
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 1: back to English. Okay, I didn't even actually lived in Southwick,

559
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: but my cousin who lived in a littlaria called Southwick

560
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: with my mom's you know, the son of my mom's

561
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 1: non twin sister. And she also had a tiny little

562
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 1: shop that's sold newspapers and the stuff called snuff that

563
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: you put up your nose a bit like coke, money

564
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: legal and and so I don't know why, but about

565
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: the age of twelve thirty and he started speaking with

566
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: a heavy Memphis twang. Right now. He used to get

567
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 1: beaten up every day for this because in Sunderland, if

568
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: he suddenly got to school and you go, how y'all

569
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 1: do and the like shut the funk up, like bum

570
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: bum bum, you know. And he he just wouldn't stop,

571
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: like you, just wouldn't stop all the time until he

572
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: got to about seventeen and eighteen and he went to

573
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 1: Memphis and he lives there still. I hope he's listening, yeah,

574
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: and he actually when I made the film Deep Blues

575
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: in one, you know, I went out filmed R. L.

576
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: Burn Side and all Jessim a Hemphill and all these

577
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: amazing players, um with Robert Palmer doing the narration, who

578
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: wrote the book Deep Blues. And Ian was really helpful

579
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: because most of these people obviously didn't have a telephone,

580
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: well none of them out a telephone, and nobody had

581
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: a particularly easy way to get to their place, which

582
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 1: was up a dirt track somewhere. And then it was like, yeah,

583
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 1: when you can meet like the oil man, who was

584
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: this other blues player at this post office at so

585
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: and so, you know, it was like so complicated. Anyway,

586
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: so Ian sent me and my brother a box from Memphis,

587
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: and honestly, when it arrived, it was the first thing

588
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: we really seen from America. It was just an American stamp,

589
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: you know what about six stamps on it, and it

590
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 1: was so exotic. So we just looked at the box

591
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: for about an hour and then we opened it and

592
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: it was covered in um right very I can't even

593
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 1: explain because when you're from Sunday and everything is so rough.

594
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 1: So I had this kind of soft tissue paper. So

595
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: we sort of we're touching that for a bit, and

596
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: then we owned it and there was these Levi corduroy

597
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: jeans in it, and who was like, oh my god, like,

598
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: so I've got these jeans out. But then under that

599
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: he had put Mississippi John Hurt, Robert Johnson King the

600
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: Delta Blues scene like these albums. So I put them

601
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 1: on and when nobody was in, you know, my leg

602
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 1: up and I was like it sounded like something from

603
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: out of space, like, but I also sounded like my

604
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: neighbor two doors down who was singing half in Japanese

605
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: and half in English with his guitar to into a

606
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: weird chord. So I started to sort of like play

607
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: blue stuff in this called you know tune, and they

608
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 1: really I mean our old burnside if he plays jumper

609
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: on the line he's literally just playing e ju Jun

610
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 1: chunk junk junk Jun didn't play, you know. And and

611
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: even the early blues you know, where they're just a

612
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: one string pulled across and they hit it and barron

613
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: out and then they started using a slide. So I

614
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 1: got a wine bottle or a beer bottle, and there

615
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 1: was this guy called stuff and Grossman had a book

616
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: about how to play the bottleneck guitar, which was in

617
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: this music shop in Sunderlin, and you said, okay, you

618
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: put your wine bottle under the tap, you pull a

619
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 1: string around the neck like so it gets hot, and

620
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 1: then put under the cool tap, hit it and it

621
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,439
Speaker 1: fell off. You stick it on your finger. My share,

622
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: I wish I brought my guitar and a slide with

623
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 1: me actually, and you then can actually play this bluesy slide.

624
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: So once I got that going on, I was that

625
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: was it. It was the same obsession as soccer. I

626
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 1: just wanted to learn every way of playing blues music.

627
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: And then my brother brought the first Bob Dylan album

628
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: and the second Bob Dylan album and then I was

629
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: like reading the words of it. I was like fucking

630
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 1: he hang on a minute. And then I realized he

631
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: was playing some kind of weird blues stuff, quasi blues,

632
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: with like these amazing lyrics that were dealing with stuff,

633
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: you know, in a different way, because a lot of

634
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 1: blues music, as you know, was just trying to cope

635
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 1: with the pain of being in the garden fields and

636
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: slavery and and and then drinking sort of like neat

637
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: alcohol and white lightning and all this kind of stuff.

638
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: So that got me really interested in songs. And I

639
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: know it as a whole because I was delayed in

640
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 1: being interested because I was in the soccer. I kind

641
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 1: of got into the Beatles when they had already started

642
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 1: to sort of listen to Bob Dylan themselves, and then

643
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 1: the Beach Boys are listened to the Beatles and vice first.

644
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 1: So and I was like suddenly in a an amazing

645
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: library wealth of stuff. I could hardly take it all in,

646
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:48,760
Speaker 1: so I was trying to learn it all at once.

647
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: And that's why I became, I suppose, so eclectic in

648
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: my musical taste, which I brought into your rhythmics, was

649
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 1: you know, he suddenly electronic, it's R and B and

650
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: then it's and Annie also who has trained to be

651
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: a classical flute player and harpsichord at the Royal Academy Music.

652
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 1: Hated it because it was so it was like going

653
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: to school and competitive about you know, how ready is

654
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,760
Speaker 1: your neck from playing the violin, how much to practice

655
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 1: all stuff. But she had really been obsessed with hearing

656
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,720
Speaker 1: Tamla motown. When you're in Scotland or Sunderland, are saying

657
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 1: on a Friday night, there might be one place all

658
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: the girls put the handbags in the middle and dance

659
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 1: around a bit like Northern soul knights, and they play

660
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: Tamla motown music. So our sort of fusion of the

661
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:47,240
Speaker 1: different worlds that we've learned meant and it could suddenly

662
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 1: play classical keyboard. Oh, she could sing like a sort

663
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: of Tamla motown soul singer. But I also need then

664
00:41:55,480 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 1: had to make that sound, you know. And so and

665
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: of course her stories not too dissimilar to mine. You know.

666
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: In Aberdeen, you know, it was also very tough, hard

667
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: working people who had had a lot taken away from them. So, okay,

668
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: so do you graduate from school? Oh? No, I mean

669
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:26,720
Speaker 1: I ran away from school in this incredible mad thing happened.

670
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 1: There was these guys called the furies from Ireland, a

671
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: family of gypsies or of folks singing. And I started

672
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: to go to folk clubs and I'd learned some Bob

673
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: Dylan songs and some blues songs. And I would stand

674
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: there outside and ask if I could play in the

675
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: girl nor Son you know, you kind of come in,

676
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 1: you know, because I looked about twelve and I was

677
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: about fifteen. And then one guy says, you can come in,

678
00:42:55,320 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: but you can only play two songs. That's understandable, right, okay,

679
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: So I mean in English, and so I sang, um,

680
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: it's all right, mom, why bleed or something my favorite

681
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: and some blues song and with a bottle, which was

682
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:21,399
Speaker 1: people were like, I don't think they've seen it right,

683
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: So it was that was kind of my trick to

684
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: get in, and then I became regular at playing there.

685
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 1: Then I got to see these other people coming through

686
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: and they were like amazing, Bert Yea and David John

687
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 1: like all these John Fay like okay, the actual people.

688
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: They were the actual people. And then because there was

689
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: folk clubs in London and then he wanted to do

690
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 1: a tour, you know, and so and so I just

691
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: got completely bonkers about playing the guitar and getting better

692
00:43:56,040 --> 00:44:01,320
Speaker 1: at it. And so once I played at these folk clubs,

693
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 1: um I started to understand like, Okay, there's the Kinks,

694
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: and he's written a song Walter Loose Sunset, and there's

695
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: this kind of writing in this kind of writing, and

696
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 1: I just I just was so obsessed with learning everything

697
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 1: that I would literally my fingers would be almost bleeding

698
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 1: in the house. I used to put them in there

699
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: vinegar at the end of the night to sort of

700
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 1: get them tougher so that I could play all day.

701
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: My dad once took me to the doctor because he

702
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 1: thought one side of my chest was getting sort of

703
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: concave from pressing the guitar against her all the time, right,

704
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: And I just wouldn't be seeing without a guitar around town.

705
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: So I was getting a bit older, I'd run away

706
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 1: from dropped out of school. I would just go and

707
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 1: hang out in the guys shop, the one boutique in

708
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: Sunderland called West One, and they would let me sort

709
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,280
Speaker 1: of hide in the back or and I just played

710
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 1: a guitar and now eventually hitch to London, and you know,

711
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 1: it was the sort of gradual escape. Okay, then you

712
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: end up making a deal with Rocket Records. What happens

713
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: between running away from home and ending up with Alton

714
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: John's company, right, Well, because I'd start playing guitar and

715
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: got the folk clubs, there was a sort of supply teacher,

716
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: like a temporary teacher, had been to our school just

717
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: before I left, and he played the guitar and so

718
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: he started to show me some real folk like Pentangle

719
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: and that kind of stuff um Fairport convention. So we

720
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: started playing together. Then we met two other kids from

721
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 1: Sunderland and we started to play the four of us

722
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: for acoustic guitars and was like Crosby Steels, Nation and

723
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: young kind of thing. And we sent a tape to

724
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 1: London and to Lionel Conway, who was stired from the

725
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: other day he was he was running Ireland music for

726
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 1: Chris Blackwell and he thought was really interesting. And then

727
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: he realized that one of the kids brothers played drums

728
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: for Elton John, and he gave it to him and

729
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,240
Speaker 1: I don't think he could believe it was his really

730
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: younger brother, right, So anyway, this is very funny. Him

731
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: and Mickey grab him from coaches, came around our by

732
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: now we were in a squat in Sunderland. They came

733
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: around to see if we really did could play, and

734
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 1: so they brought with them from London this weed that

735
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:43,399
Speaker 1: was like really strong like and we'd all been able

736
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: to buy like pound deals of Moroccan Harsh or something

737
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: like spread amongst like twenty joints for fifty people, and

738
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: they rolled them just straight like that and said, hey,

739
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: I try some of this. So we did, and all

740
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: that happened was we tuned up for two hours in

741
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 1: front of them, all right, that's all we could do.

742
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: But they didn't seem the mind. They were just like

743
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: smiling and listening and they must have went back and

744
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 1: said they're good, but I think they don't remember anything

745
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: about it. So we all went out of London and

746
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 1: the next thing we knew we were signed by Chris

747
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: Blackwell Island Music. And then suddenly about honestly, about three

748
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: weeks later, we were signed to Rocket Records and we

749
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: were told we're going to get this what's called an advance,

750
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: and we're going to go on to studio and make

751
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: an album. And when we went into Rocket Records, it

752
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: was like walking into a very expensive perfumer. You know,

753
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: Elton had now been quite successful and everything was you know,

754
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,959
Speaker 1: he was just giving everybody present. So the little kids

755
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: working on receptions smelt fantastic and everybody had all the

756
00:47:55,880 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: sofas were like luxurious velvet sofas, and we're from Sundland

757
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: and went, fuck, you know, we've landed in like sort

758
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: of like it's like Pinocchio in the Bad Boys Land,

759
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: you know. So they gave us this money and of

760
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,280
Speaker 1: course we didn't understand anything. We've never had a manager.

761
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 1: We didn't understand anything at all. So I bought four

762
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 1: acoustic guitars on Denmark Street in a day, and one

763
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: thousand capsules of mescaline and I think half a pound

764
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: in wake. This is of hash like what you would

765
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 1: call hasher but yeah, like solid that's in a day, right.

766
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:40,800
Speaker 1: So we had this rented house in Tottenham and we

767
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: invited our friends down from some of them like hey,

768
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: you know this is happening, you know. So they came

769
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: down and everybody was like hallucinating, and I think I

770
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: brought my girlfriend down, you know, she was only seventeen,

771
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 1: was a nurse that had had been working at the

772
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 1: same mental hospital that my mom was, and how we

773
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: ended up getting married and eighteen who whoaa. And so

774
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: when Rocket Records sent somebody around, I think it was

775
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 1: Stuart Epps or Swepts. He used to call just knocking

776
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,399
Speaker 1: our daughter to see how we were doing with our

777
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: demos for the record. I think he reported back like that,

778
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: you know, we better help do something because there was

779
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: just people lying around or reading the carpet, you know,

780
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: like everything was just nuts. And so they went, oh God,

781
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: if we'd better put some order into this. So they

782
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: got a guy called Ian Matthews for me and Matthew's

783
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: second comfort to go on the studio with us. But

784
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 1: that day, for some reason, I decided and this is

785
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:57,879
Speaker 1: because honestly, well I'm talking about going really out there

786
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,800
Speaker 1: on hallucinogenics, not like today is awful mixed up terrible

787
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,360
Speaker 1: drugs that I would advise nobody to take. This was

788
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: like pure you know, ousley lsd on blotting paper and

789
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:12,840
Speaker 1: stuff like that. That. Um. I don't even know how

790
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 1: we got to the studio, but I had somehow had

791
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: an upside down paintbrush on and a kilt so it

792
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: looked like a sporn, you know, that paintbrush, and and

793
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: a tamas shanty like a hat, and a whole robe

794
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: with like things and I couldn't play, you know, probably

795
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 1: or anything. And there was the teacher who was a

796
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 1: bit older than us. He was the only one that

797
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 1: could drive and was saying I think he was pulling

798
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: his hair out, and this guy Ian Matthews gave up

799
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 1: after a day. He's just gonna no chance, right. But

800
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 1: eventually I think it took us about a year and

801
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 1: we ended up with Dave Mattis from fair Pubvention drumming.

802
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: In a few we managed to a record, which was

803
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 1: a miracle, but it it It didn't really, I don't

804
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:09,800
Speaker 1: think we actually understood that we've made a record or anything.

805
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 1: And then we went on tour with Dalton supporting him,

806
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 1: you know, in huge places. Now we've only played in

807
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: a folk club now. The band was called Long Dancer.

808
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 1: And the reason we were called Long Dancer was a

809
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 1: mistake anyway, because Ian Hunter from What the Hoople, we

810
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,720
Speaker 1: were all sitting on the floor getting stoned in Ireland

811
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 1: music because when you went to get your weekly wage

812
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: from this lovely guy I want to say his name,

813
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: had long blonde hair down to halfway down his before

814
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 1: his waist. He always would ask us to go in

815
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 1: one by one and then he he would put the

816
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 1: money there and then there was grass there and like

817
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 1: Speeder coake there and something else, and like you would say, like,

818
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 1: so what do you want, Like you want like a

819
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 1: hundred pounds, so you want fifty pound and some of

820
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: and I remember my and now then wife at the

821
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 1: time was like, now don't get this, get the h Yeah.

822
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 1: But anyway, so we would go in this little room

823
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 1: in Ireland music. Everybody went in there, Ian Hunter, everybody,

824
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 1: you know, John Martin, click the money. Of course, We're

825
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 1: going this little room and get completely stoned. And then

826
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: we were trying to think of a band name and

827
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,439
Speaker 1: we were passing a joint around and there was Ian

828
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 1: Hunter said that was a long dancer, meaning it made

829
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:38,399
Speaker 1: your lungs burn, and we all went, oh my god,

830
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 1: that's such a great name. That's it, that's it, and

831
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 1: he just looked confused. And the next thing when we

832
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: saw him, we had the album and he was falling

833
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:52,720
Speaker 1: around laughing because we go long dancing anyway. Yeah, okay,

834
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,320
Speaker 1: So you went on the road with yeah, and we

835
00:52:55,520 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 1: ended up, you know, in in playing large places in

836
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 1: England and then cycle stadium things in Italy. Now this

837
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: was very overwhelming for us. I don't remember much about

838
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,319
Speaker 1: it until mostly after the gigs. I remember we had

839
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 1: to stay in our dress room for ages while the

840
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: mob counted the money out with John John Reid before

841
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: were lawd out. So it was like really annoying because

842
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 1: like Nigel used to go mad because he was dripping

843
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 1: in sweat and all this kind of stuff. Anyway, we're

844
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: all on the bus with Elton, you see, it's just

845
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 1: one bus, and then towards the end of the tour,

846
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 1: it's a funny thing happened that Now I was in

847
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:47,359
Speaker 1: Elton's room and there was about thirty people in there,

848
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 1: all different kinds. Some people looked like there were ballet dancers,

849
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 1: guys and different characters. It looked like it was like

850
00:53:56,560 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 1: a sort of weird movie. And I was just reading

851
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:05,240
Speaker 1: American comics that Elton had got me because my grandmother

852
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,800
Speaker 1: used to sell them. And he's very sort of generous,

853
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 1: so like, oh yeah, you let these things here you go,

854
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 1: And I think it was his favorite thing to do,

855
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: was like give gifts away. So I eventually the party,

856
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was a party of whatever.

857
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 1: It was the top of the Hilton Hotel in Rome,

858
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 1: at the time, it looked like it was just sort

859
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,279
Speaker 1: of very strange. So I went in the bathroom when

860
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 1: I came out with a kind of a towel on

861
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 1: my head and a towel robe, and I did this

862
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: kind of pirouetting kind of dance. And then I sat

863
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 1: down again to reading my comics, and this guy said

864
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 1: to me, Hey, kids, come over here. And he had

865
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,320
Speaker 1: a very strong Italian accent, and he had two of

866
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 1: the most beautiful girls sitting with him, and and he goes, hey,

867
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 1: I'm making a movie and that thing you just did

868
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: that it was really interesting. I was wondering if you

869
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 1: want to be in it, And he told me the

870
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:07,879
Speaker 1: name of the movie. And so I rang my then

871
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 1: wife because about nineteen and she's had to answered the

872
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,479
Speaker 1: phone in the hallway of a house, you know, there's

873
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:18,920
Speaker 1: one phone, and I explained to her, look, I might

874
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 1: have to stay on a bit longer to be in

875
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 1: this movie. Called her, and she didn't say anything for

876
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: a while, and then she just said get home anyway.

877
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 1: Years later was my wife and Nuska i'm married to now.

878
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:36,400
Speaker 1: When we were first going out, I took her to

879
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 1: a meal in Hotel cost in Paris, right, But sitting there,

880
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 1: this guy kept staring at us and and then he

881
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,719
Speaker 1: came over and he said, hey, hey, aren't you that

882
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:51,840
Speaker 1: kid that was in the room without this and that?

883
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: And I was like, I didn't really remember much about it.

884
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: And my wife when he went away, said, she went

885
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 1: blind me. You know Roman Polanski, And it was Roman

886
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 1: Polanski who was in the room at the time, But

887
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 1: I had no idea. So basically I'm describing a story

888
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 1: of naivety and it's just like not knowing anything that

889
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 1: was going to what are you star struck? I wasn't

890
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:21,399
Speaker 1: struck at all. I was just completely so you're fine,

891
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 1: and this is Alton, you know, no big deal. I

892
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 1: was just just I was completely unaware of what was

893
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 1: going on. The only time I got a shot that's

894
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 1: when we walked out on the stage at the Cycle Stadium.

895
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:38,239
Speaker 1: But for some reason, I've ould always been I don't know,

896
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: interested in what's going on. And there was a lot

897
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 1: going on basically that was interesting. And also you know,

898
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 1: it was like really stoned and like it was all

899
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:53,320
Speaker 1: it was all very exciting the time, you know, like

900
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 1: in music, and but then after that obviously was like

901
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 1: HiT's sort of harsh reality, completely broke. I didn't know

902
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: how to get a job or do anything apart from

903
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: play the guitar. So this thing had started, and this

904
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 1: guy up the road told me about it called Camden

905
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: Lock Market, and so I don't know how I managed

906
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 1: to do this, but I decided I would have sell records,

907
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: vinyl records, because I knew about that. I can unlock market,

908
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:31,919
Speaker 1: but I didn't know how to get the records to sell.

909
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 1: Then I met this other guy said well, somebody you'll

910
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 1: give your records to sell, sailor return and I went

911
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 1: down there and it was Trojan Records, right old amazing

912
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 1: reggae records. And so I had all these Trojan records

913
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 1: and I had a market. Of course, my my stall

914
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:57,160
Speaker 1: bit came surrounded by huge clouds of smoke. In course,

915
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 1: Rastafarian London kind of immigrants too. I made great friends

916
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 1: with and that led me on another musical trail where

917
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 1: this guy came to the store and he was in

918
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 1: a bank called Asabisa. And as I always had a

919
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 1: little guitar behind my store, is that you said you

920
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: should come around my apartment and I went there was

921
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 1: all Africa and made amazing African food and they were

922
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 1: playing these rhythms and I was trying to play, and

923
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 1: then this guy showed me something, so I learned to

924
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 1: play a little bit this criss cross rhythms on guitar,

925
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:38,040
Speaker 1: and I was just I was always on this sort

926
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 1: of musical exploration journey. And and I went from there

927
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 1: two somehow getting asked if i'd meet this girl who

928
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: had formed a sort of feminist um kind of political

929
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 1: activist group, theater group, and wanted somebody to work on

930
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 1: with music, And so I went there and I just

931
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: went bang the day, walked in, fell in love with

932
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 1: the lead girl called Judith Alderson, and just to start

933
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 1: for a second part, did it in with lawn Dancer.

934
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: It's sort of imploded because one of the members, I think,

935
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 1: had a bit of a nervous breakdown when we were

936
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 1: in Germany and we were meant to launch the record

937
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:42,080
Speaker 1: and he was we although he's going to jump off

938
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 1: the roof of the hotel, and it all became very

939
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 1: traumatic and there was obviously we couldn't really carry on,

940
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 1: and then we tried to do another album with it.

941
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 1: A couple of other guys joined the band, but it

942
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 1: wasn't the same thing. We went all from Sunderer anymore,

943
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 1: and it was nobody had any sort of heart in it,

944
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 1: and it's sort of just fizzled out. Okay, Rocket Record said, fine,

945
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 1: you're done, We're moving on. I don't remember even talking

946
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 1: about Rocket Records. I just remember the band actually breaking up. Okay,

947
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:17,640
Speaker 1: So now you go to this theater group, you fall

948
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: in love with this woman. Yeah, And she was an

949
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 1: extraordinary character and still is actually just still taught by

950
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 1: her email and she had been through a lot of stuff,

951
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 1: but basically, to cut a long story short, she had

952
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 1: formed this theater group and she had a little girl

953
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 1: as well, and I moved in with her and I

954
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: had to tell my of course Sunderland, which didn't go

955
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: down well. But I still taught to her as always

956
01:00:54,040 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 1: still friends. So um. Then we went to WOD and

957
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 1: I realized this was just a very unusual outfit and

958
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 1: what she was saying and what they were putting across

959
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 1: the music was it was kind of pre punk, but

960
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 1: it was kind of punky cabaret, weird theater. And but

961
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 1: then we had a massive car crash. A friend of

962
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 1: mine had brought over to help drive a car, and Judith,

963
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 1: her name was and the little girl was Amy was

964
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 1: in the seat behind. I was in the front. I

965
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 1: drove all the way from the sort of docking I

966
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 1: think in Amsterdam or Rotterdam. We rented a car and

967
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 1: then we drove all the way to a part of Germany.

968
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 1: Then my friend took over from Sunderland. He'd never driven

969
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 1: in Europe, and just pulled the wrong way somehow onto

970
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 1: the order Barn at night. So those cars coming towards

971
01:01:55,480 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 1: us about eighty and I just took a huge line

972
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 1: of speed when we in the bathroom. So when we

973
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 1: pulled out the wrong way, I think it was the

974
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 1: only person for a split millisecond realized, yeah, we've turned

975
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 1: the wrong way, right. I think I said it out loud,

976
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 1: But did you know something? Yeah, I is so full

977
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 1: of amazing sort of connections to your brain and neurons

978
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:31,120
Speaker 1: or that if your I sees that something terrible is

979
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 1: going to happen, like an accident, it's immediately shuts down

980
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:36,160
Speaker 1: loads of the part of the brain, so you don't

981
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 1: remember it. That's why most people come out of a

982
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 1: car accident and I don't remember what happened. I just

983
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 1: remember waking up in hospital. So I have a bit

984
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 1: of that, but I do remember a few flashes of things.

985
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, it was a terrible accident. It was

986
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 1: on the front page of the German newspaper, you know,

987
01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 1: and you uh, I mean, honestly, some of the things

988
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 1: that sort of happened in your life that sort of

989
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 1: come around again, like the one I said about Roman

990
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: Polanski years later. Incredible because I didn't see the little

991
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:14,760
Speaker 1: girl Amy for years. You know, she was only about

992
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: three until I was going to the little opening of

993
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 1: my friends, tiny little restaurant in Camden Town and this

994
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 1: girl came up with some canopies and she said, oh, listen,

995
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:32,919
Speaker 1: you won't remember me, but I remember you. And I said,

996
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 1: oh no, I don't remember by now. I was like

997
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 1: very lovely nineteen year old girls twenty one or something.

998
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: Said I'm Amy. Remember I went flying out the car

999
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 1: window in Germany. It's like fuck but m yeah, so

1000
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 1: so Jude and I. We sort of didn't break up.

1001
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 1: Was more was smashed up, you know, the car accident.

1002
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 1: Her leg was, her knee was broken, and like all

1003
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 1: these things happened, and I ended up in crouch End,

1004
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 1: and I used to live in crouch And before with

1005
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 1: my wife. But I've given now given that flat to

1006
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 1: my mother, and um. I was sort of sleeping on

1007
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 1: the floor of my mother's place, and I didn't realize

1008
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 1: I had punctured my lung. I thought I had terrible

1009
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 1: sort of like something wrong when I breathed in, and

1010
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 1: so I was a bit messed up. I went to

1011
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 1: the hospital and they did that awful thing when you

1012
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 1: lung collapses, where you have to be awake while the

1013
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 1: doctor pokes a needle into your chest well, but stops

1014
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 1: before it puncts us the lung and then sucks the

1015
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 1: air at so your lung can reinflate. Not the nicest

1016
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 1: of feelings, but so that sort of temporarily fixed it.

1017
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:55,040
Speaker 1: And one day I was just walking up the road

1018
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 1: and crouching and the guy who used to be in

1019
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 1: the stall next to me at the mark Kid sort

1020
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 1: of knocked on the window of the inside of a

1021
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 1: shop and he was decorating it and he said, hey, hey,

1022
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 1: come in. So I went in. He said, nobody knows this,

1023
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 1: but I'm squatting in this shop and I've got the

1024
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:19,120
Speaker 1: house upstairs, and he's calling the shop Spanish Moon after

1025
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 1: a little foot so and he said, hey, you know

1026
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 1: let's celebrate or something. So we had a bottle of

1027
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 1: Jack Daniels and we had a little glass, and he

1028
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:34,400
Speaker 1: was sitting in the shop window talking about everything that

1029
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 1: had happened to him and to me, and he said,

1030
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:39,400
Speaker 1: you never guess what. I met this girl the other

1031
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 1: day and she is working in this sort of like

1032
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 1: health food restaurant, and but she plays this weird old

1033
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 1: harmonium and sings a kind of a bit like Joni

1034
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 1: Mitchell kind of songs. Do you want to meet it?

1035
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:01,480
Speaker 1: I think you would get away with I said, yeah,

1036
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:05,320
Speaker 1: why not? So we drove up in his car, and

1037
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 1: at the time I think I had sort of like

1038
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 1: spiky turquoise hair and sort of you know, just look

1039
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 1: generally not right for the restaurant. So the manager wouldn't

1040
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 1: let us in. But so I kept sort of breathing

1041
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:27,919
Speaker 1: on the window, and every time I saw the girl

1042
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:30,160
Speaker 1: who I was right now, I love you backwards in

1043
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 1: the steam and all that stuff. And then the manager

1044
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:35,120
Speaker 1: was going up to her obviously like like do you

1045
01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:38,040
Speaker 1: know these people? And so when she came out, it

1046
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 1: was Annie. Of course, when she came back, said what

1047
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:42,480
Speaker 1: the hell are you doing? And I'm nearly getting the

1048
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 1: sack here and Paul says, oh, no, you should meet

1049
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:49,760
Speaker 1: my friend Davey plays music too and everything, and we

1050
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 1: started talking. We actually moved in together that day. That

1051
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 1: day that day, yeah, we sort of, well you moved

1052
01:06:57,240 --> 01:06:59,840
Speaker 1: into her apartment. This is about six o'clock and he

1053
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,720
Speaker 1: and well, she had a tiny room slight of this really,

1054
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 1: with a harmonium in it, in a single bed, and

1055
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 1: we moved in there. And then the next day we

1056
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 1: are she was she ors was a bit a little anxious,

1057
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 1: kind of panic attack, and I said, well, let's go

1058
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: and see my mom, right, So we went in a

1059
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 1: double decker bus to Crouch End and my mom was

1060
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:29,480
Speaker 1: torn to her and she's feeling a bit better. And

1061
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:34,000
Speaker 1: then my mom says, but actually I'm going somewhere else

1062
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 1: for a week where you can stay here. So we

1063
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 1: stayed there in my mom's flat, which is in Creach End,

1064
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 1: And then we realized Paul had got all the house

1065
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 1: above the record store. So we went to see Paul

1066
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 1: and said he it's all right if we like live

1067
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:52,880
Speaker 1: upstairs there. He says, well, I'm going to live upstairs

1068
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 1: there as well, but it's got three floors. So we did,

1069
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: and this became like a landmark in creat end. We

1070
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 1: just an odd place. It's full of musicians and artists,

1071
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 1: and it was journalists they you know, Julie Burchill and

1072
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 1: all these people. All she would actually come in and

1073
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 1: sell all the records being given to review, and like

1074
01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 1: it was just you know, Adamant was at art college

1075
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:21,479
Speaker 1: up the road in Genesis pr Age and Chris and

1076
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:23,439
Speaker 1: so the first track with Annie and I released was

1077
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 1: actually me and her and Chrissie Cozy Fanny t d

1078
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:29,599
Speaker 1: from Robbing Gristle. So we became in world and all

1079
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 1: this I kind of art cred there and we were

1080
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 1: really happy because it was like but we didn't write

1081
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 1: any songs together or separately for the whole time we

1082
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:45,920
Speaker 1: lived there. We just were in another band with Pete

1083
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 1: Combs called the Tourists, and we played all his songs. Okay,

1084
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:53,640
Speaker 1: Pete Tourists had a deal with Virgin Did they have

1085
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:57,960
Speaker 1: that deal before you got in the beginning around? It

1086
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:00,800
Speaker 1: wasn't with Virtune. Maybe it came out through that later

1087
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 1: here or something, but Tourists, we haven't. We signed with

1088
01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:09,040
Speaker 1: a tiny label which was a folk label called Transatlantic,

1089
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 1: which was Fairport, conventional and then it was called Logo,

1090
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:16,040
Speaker 1: changed its name and then they sold themselves to our Cia.

1091
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:22,560
Speaker 1: So we ended up being you know, inherited twice and

1092
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:27,360
Speaker 1: we had some kind of success, but it was really

1093
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 1: not from what we wanted. We just lacking about in

1094
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:32,880
Speaker 1: the studio and did a version of I Only Want

1095
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:35,840
Speaker 1: to be with You only speeded up with like ricking

1096
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 1: back a twelve string and you know, the birds meats

1097
01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:42,680
Speaker 1: punk kind of thing, and that was a huge hit

1098
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 1: in Britain and Australia and some places. Did you make

1099
01:09:46,280 --> 01:09:49,760
Speaker 1: any money? Well, we sold a lot of albums and

1100
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:52,639
Speaker 1: but you know that didn't mean to say you made

1101
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 1: any money. Still, I'm asking you what are you living on?

1102
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 1: We we well we lived together, which saved a lot

1103
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:01,560
Speaker 1: of money when we were on tour and everything. And

1104
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:05,559
Speaker 1: you know we had a little wage through the management

1105
01:10:05,640 --> 01:10:09,920
Speaker 1: company who got the money and which is years later

1106
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,480
Speaker 1: my dad, you see, who trained to be an accountant.

1107
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:15,760
Speaker 1: They did the best advice ever when Annie and I

1108
01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:20,840
Speaker 1: got a contract as rhythmics, and he said that I've

1109
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 1: read the whole bloody thing. He said, it's all gibberish

1110
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:28,160
Speaker 1: and I can't make head and the tail of any

1111
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:31,360
Speaker 1: of it. Apart from I advise you one thing, like

1112
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:35,880
Speaker 1: they give you the money and then you pay the managers. Really, yeah,

1113
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 1: that's pretty smart. Yeah, and so we did. So we

1114
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:43,960
Speaker 1: formed a company called d n A Limited David Annie,

1115
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:46,920
Speaker 1: and the money went there and then we paid people

1116
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:49,599
Speaker 1: from there. Okay, so you're on the road with tours,

1117
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:52,599
Speaker 1: you go through multiple ownerships of the label, but you're

1118
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:56,639
Speaker 1: not doing your original material. Now. We we weren't playing

1119
01:10:56,920 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 1: me and Annie's songs. We were doing Peter songs. He

1120
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 1: was a great songwriter and we we felt actually that

1121
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 1: we couldn't even try to compete with His songwriting was

1122
01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:10,920
Speaker 1: very good. But Pete was you know, very addictive personality

1123
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 1: in every way, and it became worse and worse, you know,

1124
01:11:14,640 --> 01:11:17,880
Speaker 1: to heroin and he couldn't get hero and he had

1125
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 1: to drink a bottle of like jin sing whiskey or something.

1126
01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:23,720
Speaker 1: It was like really sad seeing it go down, but

1127
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:28,000
Speaker 1: we realized just couldn't carry on. We're in Australia. Pete

1128
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:33,160
Speaker 1: had got lost and you know, you kind of went

1129
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 1: somewhere looking for heroin and oh deed and that to

1130
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:40,000
Speaker 1: manager had to find him and and it was it

1131
01:11:40,120 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 1: was just obvious that we couldn't carry on. So on

1132
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:47,600
Speaker 1: the way back from Australia on a plane, Annie and

1133
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 1: I was sitting next to each other, and we've been

1134
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:54,560
Speaker 1: through all of this stuff, and on the plane we

1135
01:11:54,640 --> 01:12:00,080
Speaker 1: said maybe we should sort of live separately, right, And

1136
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:02,719
Speaker 1: we both just decided it and sort of went to sleep.

1137
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:05,600
Speaker 1: And then when we got there, we think, well, to

1138
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:07,439
Speaker 1: know how we do this because we haven't got any money.

1139
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:11,439
Speaker 1: The reason you want to live separately is, well, we've

1140
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 1: been like three or four years not only living together,

1141
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:17,800
Speaker 1: but being going around and round in the van like

1142
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:22,320
Speaker 1: it was just seven. We thought we'd caught court Nutcle

1143
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 1: had something called folly at which is like when two

1144
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:29,920
Speaker 1: people are together all the time constantly. And when we

1145
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:31,880
Speaker 1: went with the bandit se would just be us two

1146
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:35,400
Speaker 1: was nobody else's company because we liked it. But you

1147
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:38,920
Speaker 1: can become sort of a little bit sort of on

1148
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:45,200
Speaker 1: the outside of society or reality or whatever. You're in

1149
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:48,360
Speaker 1: your own world, right, So we decided to live separately,

1150
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:53,439
Speaker 1: but the romance was going to continue. Well, this is

1151
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:56,800
Speaker 1: when it gets complicated because and he's separately but and

1152
01:12:56,880 --> 01:13:00,240
Speaker 1: he then just moved upstairs, right, so they and she

1153
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:03,639
Speaker 1: was upstairs and then that didn't really work, so she said,

1154
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 1: moved to the end of the street. And then this

1155
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:10,360
Speaker 1: went on throughout the eighties. I bought a house when

1156
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:11,920
Speaker 1: we got some money. She bought a house in the

1157
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:16,479
Speaker 1: next street. Because we became rhythmics. See, so we would together,

1158
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:21,759
Speaker 1: stuck together like glue. So even if we were separate,

1159
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:26,320
Speaker 1: as you know, a couple, we were every day together,

1160
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 1: like working on our staff and touring. And how long

1161
01:13:31,479 --> 01:13:34,960
Speaker 1: did it maintain a romance? Well, you know, like all

1162
01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:41,040
Speaker 1: of those complicated breaking up on and it just sort

1163
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:44,439
Speaker 1: of it was like a sort of slow motion car crash,

1164
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:47,920
Speaker 1: but at the same time, unlike a lot of people

1165
01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 1: might have experienced, it was a fast motion rocket taking

1166
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:55,880
Speaker 1: off because as we were slow motion car crash in

1167
01:13:55,920 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 1: the relationship, we were sort of becoming really successful in factually,

1168
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:06,559
Speaker 1: in fact because of a number of reasons. Some guy

1169
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:12,080
Speaker 1: playing our imported record in Cleveland on the radio, playing

1170
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:18,240
Speaker 1: Sweet Dreams, and because MTV had just started, and I'd

1171
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:22,640
Speaker 1: always been obsessed with filming stuff, and we've made this

1172
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:26,000
Speaker 1: very strange Sweet Dreams video that the record company couldn't understand,

1173
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:30,240
Speaker 1: which i'd, like, you know, obviously took lots of influence

1174
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:34,920
Speaker 1: from French French filmmakers and surrealism and stuff like that.

1175
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:37,439
Speaker 1: We had one up our sleeve, and then we had

1176
01:14:37,479 --> 01:14:39,960
Speaker 1: another one up our sleeve and another one up our sleeve.

1177
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:44,479
Speaker 1: So when in the garden, which was an amazing experience

1178
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:48,439
Speaker 1: with Connie Plank, you know, he taught me how to

1179
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:52,240
Speaker 1: ignore everything about recording because I didn't like the sound

1180
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:55,639
Speaker 1: of the other records. Because those days you weren't allowed

1181
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:57,719
Speaker 1: to go to the mixing desk. It was the produce

1182
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:01,720
Speaker 1: of the engineer. You sit at the back and if

1183
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:03,360
Speaker 1: you go near any of the knobs like no, no,

1184
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:06,400
Speaker 1: don't touch that, you know, And Connie Plank taught me

1185
01:15:06,479 --> 01:15:08,400
Speaker 1: you are you can do whatever you want, like turn

1186
01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:10,680
Speaker 1: that up and make the whole base drum distorted, and

1187
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:13,960
Speaker 1: see what that sounds like, put the microphone down this well,

1188
01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:18,400
Speaker 1: and all this kind of stuff. And so that would

1189
01:15:18,439 --> 01:15:22,520
Speaker 1: have led me to want to have to record ourselves.

1190
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:27,840
Speaker 1: And when I just made your operation because my lung

1191
01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:31,680
Speaker 1: kept collapsing. And he went to Scotland and while she

1192
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:36,400
Speaker 1: was away, I bought first little drum machine, tiny little thing.

1193
01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 1: You know, you couldn't actually doing much, You couldn't tell

1194
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:42,400
Speaker 1: it to do certain things that would just if you

1195
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:45,320
Speaker 1: press that button and that button it did that. And

1196
01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:50,960
Speaker 1: and a little synthesietic called the Wasp. It was plastic thing.

1197
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:56,000
Speaker 1: And I had a thing called the Porter Studio was

1198
01:15:56,080 --> 01:16:00,920
Speaker 1: like a cassette with four tracks, and I I started

1199
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:05,360
Speaker 1: making these tracks that are some of them are half

1200
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:07,840
Speaker 1: of the Sweet Dreams album that we just transferred to

1201
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:10,639
Speaker 1: an eight track and I played some of them down

1202
01:16:10,680 --> 01:16:13,760
Speaker 1: the phone to Annie at her parents house and she

1203
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:17,400
Speaker 1: was like, woh god, that's really interesting. And I was

1204
01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:20,720
Speaker 1: talking about like we'd make this like electronic music, but

1205
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:24,360
Speaker 1: Annie sang soulfully on top of it as a juxtaposition.

1206
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:28,960
Speaker 1: So we started doing these experiments. But in the in

1207
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:30,920
Speaker 1: the middle of Sweet Dreams, how Money would get so

1208
01:16:31,080 --> 01:16:34,000
Speaker 1: depressed or see we are a couple that had broken up,

1209
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:37,559
Speaker 1: but like we're making this music, but what are we doing?

1210
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:42,160
Speaker 1: Had nothing to do with any music that was going on.

1211
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:46,800
Speaker 1: We're all going to die kind of, you know. Unfortunately

1212
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:53,840
Speaker 1: I've been there, yeah and so, and people would come

1213
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:56,000
Speaker 1: and visit us, like I'd become really good friends with

1214
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 1: Claim Burke from Blondie and we were in a picture

1215
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:03,519
Speaker 1: framing factor, which was the top of these stairs, but

1216
01:17:03,680 --> 01:17:08,679
Speaker 1: underneath that, we're making that noise like and claim we'd

1217
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:11,000
Speaker 1: come and see us. So Frank confront from Blondie and

1218
01:17:11,479 --> 01:17:14,519
Speaker 1: what are you guys doing. We're making a record on

1219
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:18,800
Speaker 1: this like eight rap tape recorder and the eaves of

1220
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:20,599
Speaker 1: the pit you had to bend down the whole time

1221
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:22,640
Speaker 1: because it was just like the very eaves of it

1222
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:25,680
Speaker 1: and an old building that had probably been there three

1223
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:30,719
Speaker 1: hundred years or something. And tell me if I'm wandering

1224
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:36,439
Speaker 1: into sunderland speak, you know, because I'm trying to keep

1225
01:17:36,479 --> 01:17:41,160
Speaker 1: a grip on it. But so we explained, you know,

1226
01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:43,960
Speaker 1: this is the record. We're making a record, And and

1227
01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 1: then when we delivered the record one, how did you

1228
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 1: get a deal? We were we were already signed, you see,

1229
01:17:54,240 --> 01:18:00,679
Speaker 1: because when the tourists broke up, we had been signed

1230
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:04,639
Speaker 1: individually as well. But then it was like, but we're

1231
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:07,559
Speaker 1: going to be a duo called Rhythmics, And they thought

1232
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:11,240
Speaker 1: about it for ages and said, okay, well you can

1233
01:18:11,320 --> 01:18:15,720
Speaker 1: do an album this very low budget. So we went

1234
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:19,960
Speaker 1: to Connie Plank in Germany and that wasn't very successful.

1235
01:18:20,479 --> 01:18:22,800
Speaker 1: So at that point I think they're thinking about dropping us.

1236
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:27,679
Speaker 1: But there was a lovely guy young junior an arsenal

1237
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:31,720
Speaker 1: called Jack Stevens, and he would visit that sneath. That

1238
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:35,479
Speaker 1: was amazing what we're doing. And of course, just before

1239
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:38,360
Speaker 1: we get there, why was it the rhythmics, teld us

1240
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:46,960
Speaker 1: the story rhythmics was because, um, the thing is how

1241
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:49,759
Speaker 1: I explained it to the record company is quite funny.

1242
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:54,880
Speaker 1: But basically we liked the word that EU are at

1243
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:58,320
Speaker 1: the beginning for Europe and rhythm. But there's another thing

1244
01:18:58,400 --> 01:19:03,120
Speaker 1: called rhythmic, created Emil Jack del Crows, which is about

1245
01:19:03,200 --> 01:19:08,120
Speaker 1: the study of rhythm and music and thought patterns to help.

1246
01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:12,160
Speaker 1: It's used often in schools at Rudolph Steiner schools and whatever.

1247
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:19,360
Speaker 1: It just is a way of like understanding, um, your

1248
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:23,679
Speaker 1: body and you know, and so well it's more than actually,

1249
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:26,360
Speaker 1: but we spent another three hours talking about it. But

1250
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:28,839
Speaker 1: I had to go in and tell the record label

1251
01:19:29,479 --> 01:19:31,840
Speaker 1: we were going to be called rhythmics, which was a

1252
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:35,080
Speaker 1: difficult tongue twister, and when you looked at it written down,

1253
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:40,439
Speaker 1: it was like, yeah, So I always like to do, like,

1254
01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:43,840
Speaker 1: you know, if it's going to be something I'm going

1255
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:48,120
Speaker 1: to explain when I'm pitching a TV company whatever. It's

1256
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:52,880
Speaker 1: always the element of surprise, right, So I remember just

1257
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:58,479
Speaker 1: jumping from a standing position which I practiced onto a desk, right,

1258
01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:03,000
Speaker 1: so like just doing one jump and then I said Eurythmics,

1259
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:08,479
Speaker 1: all the one go and it was complete silences. About

1260
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:12,200
Speaker 1: three of the record label left and they said well,

1261
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:15,519
Speaker 1: and one guy said, isn't that like something you have

1262
01:20:15,720 --> 01:20:19,640
Speaker 1: to get treated for? And it was like nonspecific eurothritis

1263
01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:23,240
Speaker 1: or something and I was like now, and I explained,

1264
01:20:24,080 --> 01:20:28,400
Speaker 1: and then we don't know about this, but anyway, we

1265
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:32,280
Speaker 1: got away with it. A Sweet Dreams album came out,

1266
01:20:32,360 --> 01:20:38,200
Speaker 1: and then yeah, Sweet Dreams, what's the development story there? Well,

1267
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:44,599
Speaker 1: we were making an album that's quite quirky, using limited,

1268
01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:50,320
Speaker 1: very limited equipment. Because I went to the bank manager

1269
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:54,240
Speaker 1: who had been the bank all during the tourists and

1270
01:20:54,280 --> 01:20:56,360
Speaker 1: and he was really nervous about this, but I was

1271
01:20:56,680 --> 01:21:01,880
Speaker 1: convinced again with my surprise actions using my I ked

1272
01:21:02,160 --> 01:21:06,320
Speaker 1: and Haiku mixed together or whatever, that I would be

1273
01:21:06,479 --> 01:21:08,800
Speaker 1: able to get him to lend us some money to

1274
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:12,560
Speaker 1: buy the exact amount of equipment that this guy we

1275
01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:16,000
Speaker 1: knew called Adam Williams has sort of written out and

1276
01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:19,479
Speaker 1: we've got pictures cut out of catalogs. If we needed

1277
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:27,040
Speaker 1: this desk, secondhand, this secondhand Clark Technique reverb, this bell

1278
01:21:27,200 --> 01:21:30,960
Speaker 1: noise reduction system, and this one really important thing a

1279
01:21:31,080 --> 01:21:34,840
Speaker 1: space echo. Right for the space echo, because we wanted

1280
01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:37,720
Speaker 1: to make like dub sounds and all that stuff. We

1281
01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:39,920
Speaker 1: had everything written out and the wires came when it

1282
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:42,200
Speaker 1: came the fourth thousand and eight hunderd pounds or something,

1283
01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:45,320
Speaker 1: and we could make a record on it. So we

1284
01:21:45,439 --> 01:21:48,799
Speaker 1: went there and he sat silent in the bank manager's

1285
01:21:48,880 --> 01:21:51,719
Speaker 1: office and I explained, and I put all the pictures

1286
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 1: out and I said, you're seen in the past. We've

1287
01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:58,320
Speaker 1: made an album and we had to pay all these people,

1288
01:21:58,760 --> 01:22:02,680
Speaker 1: and we couldn't recoup really because the studio was this

1289
01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:05,960
Speaker 1: and producing the engineer. But now I'm going to make

1290
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:09,719
Speaker 1: the record. We have the equipment, and if the record

1291
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:13,960
Speaker 1: only sells this amount, we can make another record on it.

1292
01:22:14,160 --> 01:22:16,519
Speaker 1: And now it doesn't cost us anything. And he was

1293
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:19,760
Speaker 1: listening the whole time and then he and he says,

1294
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:23,320
Speaker 1: you know what, that's a very good idea, and he

1295
01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:27,639
Speaker 1: gave us five thousand pounds. The only problem was when

1296
01:22:27,680 --> 01:22:32,720
Speaker 1: we stepped outside the bank, this friend of mine who

1297
01:22:32,920 --> 01:22:38,600
Speaker 1: was called Ashley Cohen, who was a situationalist artist, and

1298
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:43,639
Speaker 1: unfortunately his situations art at that moment was he had

1299
01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:45,960
Speaker 1: a mini full of cats and he would stop it

1300
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:51,519
Speaker 1: and hand people cats and then take polaroids. Right. He

1301
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:53,360
Speaker 1: had another terrible one needs to do is to pick

1302
01:22:53,439 --> 01:22:55,360
Speaker 1: people up at a bus stop and say, oh, I'm

1303
01:22:55,400 --> 01:22:57,200
Speaker 1: going your way, and then so I'm just could have

1304
01:22:57,240 --> 01:22:59,920
Speaker 1: stopped at my friend's house and then he would take

1305
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:02,120
Speaker 1: them in. Then he would sneak out and leave them there,

1306
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:06,559
Speaker 1: and that was his art form. Well, there's a picture

1307
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:09,160
Speaker 1: of the bank manager with like a cat on his

1308
01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:12,240
Speaker 1: head and me and Annie with cats, and I can

1309
01:23:12,280 --> 01:23:15,040
Speaker 1: see it about manager's face is like, what did I

1310
01:23:15,240 --> 01:23:19,320
Speaker 1: do right? Right? But then afterwards we gave him all

1311
01:23:19,400 --> 01:23:24,000
Speaker 1: these gold albums and platinum albums and but yeah, so

1312
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:31,240
Speaker 1: in the picture faming factory. But then we couldn't afford

1313
01:23:31,280 --> 01:23:35,680
Speaker 1: the rent anymore. So, um, the guy who owned it

1314
01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:39,000
Speaker 1: said you can't be here anymore. And we were sneakily

1315
01:23:39,080 --> 01:23:42,240
Speaker 1: borrowing his synthesizers sometimes because he would go up there

1316
01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:46,640
Speaker 1: to practice. So then I was, you know, we just

1317
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:49,040
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do. We were about halfway through

1318
01:23:49,160 --> 01:23:54,519
Speaker 1: making a record in inverted Commas, and I was walking

1319
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:56,120
Speaker 1: up the street and crow chain and there was a

1320
01:23:56,240 --> 01:24:00,639
Speaker 1: huge church and this guy opened the door with gray

1321
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:03,519
Speaker 1: hair and a weird beard. He looked like a wizard

1322
01:24:04,160 --> 01:24:08,680
Speaker 1: and he said he you like. He said, are you

1323
01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:14,960
Speaker 1: looking for somewhere? I was like yeah, I said, I'm

1324
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:17,720
Speaker 1: looking for somewhere to make a record. He says, come

1325
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:20,840
Speaker 1: in here, and he showed me this sort of room.

1326
01:24:21,160 --> 01:24:25,000
Speaker 1: There was the vestry of a church. He said, well,

1327
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:28,880
Speaker 1: what about this room? I said, well, yeah, that would

1328
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:31,320
Speaker 1: be great. I said how much is it? Says no, no, no,

1329
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:34,960
Speaker 1: you can have it. And I was like, this is

1330
01:24:35,160 --> 01:24:36,800
Speaker 1: So I went and told Danny and she was like,

1331
01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:43,040
Speaker 1: this sounds really weird. So we went there and the

1332
01:24:43,160 --> 01:24:48,200
Speaker 1: guy and his partner we're really sweet, but really odd couple.

1333
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:52,960
Speaker 1: I think obviously a gay couple that they've had to hide,

1334
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:56,719
Speaker 1: you know, for years. They were in by then sixties

1335
01:24:56,840 --> 01:25:00,280
Speaker 1: or whatever. And in the end they helped Bill there's

1336
01:25:00,280 --> 01:25:03,640
Speaker 1: another studio for us upstairs when we got successful, you know,

1337
01:25:04,120 --> 01:25:06,600
Speaker 1: by night with their lights that they used to do

1338
01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:10,760
Speaker 1: their animated feature films. And then the end he said, look,

1339
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:14,280
Speaker 1: we want to move now to Florida somewhere to retire.

1340
01:25:15,080 --> 01:25:17,479
Speaker 1: Do you want to buy office, and in the end

1341
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:21,599
Speaker 1: we bought that church and then had then I bought

1342
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:23,880
Speaker 1: it off any later, and then I had it for years,

1343
01:25:23,920 --> 01:25:26,800
Speaker 1: and then I sold it to David Gray, and then

1344
01:25:26,840 --> 01:25:29,880
Speaker 1: when he was going to make it possibly flats the

1345
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:33,920
Speaker 1: whole of cretch and was up in arms. But Paul

1346
01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:37,920
Speaker 1: Etwith came to the rescue and Paul up within great

1347
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:41,040
Speaker 1: producer has it and been there a few games with

1348
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:44,720
Speaker 1: Paul and it's still the church there where we made

1349
01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:48,840
Speaker 1: so much stuff. Okay, so Sweet Dreams, how do you

1350
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:52,720
Speaker 1: write it? This is like me being an interviewed is

1351
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:55,479
Speaker 1: like one of them stories where the narrative gets so

1352
01:25:55,800 --> 01:25:58,800
Speaker 1: lost in so many different I'm totally a control of

1353
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:02,559
Speaker 1: the narrative. Are good, okay, but I'm ultimately going here, Okay,

1354
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:06,840
Speaker 1: do it? Yeah, I'm just don't know what. I don't

1355
01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:09,920
Speaker 1: know when Sweet Dreams is complete, because I know you've

1356
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:11,800
Speaker 1: probably told the story of how you wrote or whatever.

1357
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:16,080
Speaker 1: Do you know it's going to be a monster here now?

1358
01:26:16,360 --> 01:26:18,560
Speaker 1: We have no idea. In fact, the record label in

1359
01:26:19,680 --> 01:26:23,960
Speaker 1: um London released I think two or three singles from

1360
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:27,479
Speaker 1: the album before that because they had In fact, they

1361
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:31,679
Speaker 1: said to me at one point, look because I had inkling.

1362
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:34,280
Speaker 1: Annie and I were very excited when we first recorded it,

1363
01:26:35,280 --> 01:26:38,320
Speaker 1: and then we were you know, deflated when nobody seemed

1364
01:26:38,320 --> 01:26:40,680
Speaker 1: to have ary with us. But I had inkling it

1365
01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:44,160
Speaker 1: was something special. But I actually remember being told, look,

1366
01:26:45,200 --> 01:26:49,960
Speaker 1: this song has no beginning, middle chorus and whatever. It's

1367
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:53,479
Speaker 1: just and I was kind of thing yourself, well, that's

1368
01:26:53,560 --> 01:26:57,840
Speaker 1: kind of what's good, that's exactly. But but it was

1369
01:26:57,960 --> 01:27:01,679
Speaker 1: this guy in a radio station in Cleveland got an import.

1370
01:27:02,760 --> 01:27:06,000
Speaker 1: He kept playing that there was no action in the UK.

1371
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:09,280
Speaker 1: No action in the UK. I love as the Stranger,

1372
01:27:09,439 --> 01:27:14,360
Speaker 1: like barely graced the top seventy five or something. This

1373
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:18,479
Speaker 1: guy kept ringing up our c in New York and saying, look,

1374
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:23,760
Speaker 1: you've got this band called the earth Mix And every

1375
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:26,880
Speaker 1: time I'm playing this song sweet Dreams on this important,

1376
01:27:27,479 --> 01:27:30,640
Speaker 1: it's just going bonkers. All the phones are ringing. And

1377
01:27:30,720 --> 01:27:32,479
Speaker 1: they kept saying that we don't have a band called

1378
01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:35,679
Speaker 1: the Earthquakes, so we don't know what you're talking about.

1379
01:27:36,439 --> 01:27:39,599
Speaker 1: And eventually somebody realized he meant Rhythmics, which was signed

1380
01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:45,160
Speaker 1: in England, and they hurriedly got that out and sort

1381
01:27:45,200 --> 01:27:49,040
Speaker 1: of managed to service radio stations, and so it was

1382
01:27:49,120 --> 01:27:54,800
Speaker 1: a very quick rise from that guy playing it to

1383
01:27:54,920 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 1: sort of going. And at the same time, Sweet Dreams

1384
01:27:59,640 --> 01:28:02,560
Speaker 1: was on a video so you could actually deliver a

1385
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:07,000
Speaker 1: video to MTV immediately. And we went to America to

1386
01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:09,280
Speaker 1: play live. And by the time I saw you at

1387
01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:11,800
Speaker 1: the Palace all right, well, by the time we got

1388
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:16,960
Speaker 1: from New York to l A, it was already gigantic.

1389
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:22,120
Speaker 1: And then we were in a Japanese hotel room. It's

1390
01:28:22,160 --> 01:28:25,360
Speaker 1: like a Japanese hotel in San Francisco. I can't remember

1391
01:28:25,360 --> 01:28:30,479
Speaker 1: what it was cool anyway, um, I might have imagined

1392
01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:33,080
Speaker 1: it's a Japanese hotel. It had a Japanese restaurant in it.

1393
01:28:33,760 --> 01:28:37,960
Speaker 1: But somebody the two manager said Annie, you and Dave

1394
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:40,479
Speaker 1: have got to go into one room because the Rector

1395
01:28:40,760 --> 01:28:45,160
Speaker 1: label the phone you up. And we sat there and

1396
01:28:45,240 --> 01:28:48,760
Speaker 1: the phone rang, and somebody from the label said, I

1397
01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:50,400
Speaker 1: just want to let you know you're going to be

1398
01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:55,720
Speaker 1: number one right in a minute or something right, And

1399
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:58,720
Speaker 1: we were like jumping around going away, and then we

1400
01:28:58,800 --> 01:29:02,000
Speaker 1: looked out the window and where were they were. Everything

1401
01:29:02,120 --> 01:29:06,519
Speaker 1: just looked exactly the same. God a great story, and

1402
01:29:06,640 --> 01:29:11,160
Speaker 1: we like, what do we do? We just weren't quite

1403
01:29:11,200 --> 01:29:14,160
Speaker 1: sure what to do, you know, because we talked about

1404
01:29:14,160 --> 01:29:16,280
Speaker 1: a couple that it's not a couple. But now we've

1405
01:29:16,320 --> 01:29:19,519
Speaker 1: been through all this stuff and when number one in America,

1406
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:22,160
Speaker 1: we just didn't understand what that meant. We didn't understand

1407
01:29:22,200 --> 01:29:26,280
Speaker 1: the normally the size of America. All we knew is

1408
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:28,720
Speaker 1: when we got to the gig right then it had

1409
01:29:29,120 --> 01:29:32,240
Speaker 1: come out. There was lines around the block. Was the

1410
01:29:32,360 --> 01:29:36,640
Speaker 1: great San Francisco Famous ball Room whatever it's called the

1411
01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:41,599
Speaker 1: film more film or yeah, the film are East right

1412
01:29:42,120 --> 01:29:45,160
Speaker 1: now the East is in New York, the West. But

1413
01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:48,439
Speaker 1: then it was closed and then it was winter something else. Yeah,

1414
01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:51,519
Speaker 1: winter Land was there. Now it's the film war again,

1415
01:29:52,479 --> 01:29:55,920
Speaker 1: and there's a great American music hall that's there. It

1416
01:29:56,080 --> 01:29:59,840
Speaker 1: was a film or and it was one of the

1417
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:07,480
Speaker 1: unbelievable shows. And then we were invited to this club afterwards.

1418
01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:11,080
Speaker 1: And it was one of those moments, the first time

1419
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:16,840
Speaker 1: we realized that gay community or the LGBTQ community, or

1420
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:18,960
Speaker 1: the alphabet community or whatever you want to call it

1421
01:30:19,120 --> 01:30:25,640
Speaker 1: now had embraced us massively, and that Annie was perceived

1422
01:30:26,080 --> 01:30:32,600
Speaker 1: as um as some kind of heroine or hero or

1423
01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:38,200
Speaker 1: heroine in this world, which we loved, you know, and

1424
01:30:40,360 --> 01:30:42,840
Speaker 1: you know, we started off making the first thing over

1425
01:30:42,880 --> 01:30:45,920
Speaker 1: recorded was with christ and Cozy Fanny two t from

1426
01:30:47,040 --> 01:30:51,160
Speaker 1: so we're quite aware of this world. A lot of

1427
01:30:51,200 --> 01:30:53,880
Speaker 1: our friends were in this world. But we didn't realize

1428
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:57,360
Speaker 1: that in America this has been building up through the radio,

1429
01:30:57,479 --> 01:31:03,120
Speaker 1: that the song had been adopted and interpreted in many ways. Anyway,

1430
01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:05,920
Speaker 1: we had amazing time at this club till god knows

1431
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:11,080
Speaker 1: when six o'clock in the morning or something, and and

1432
01:31:11,200 --> 01:31:13,840
Speaker 1: that was the end of the tour. So it was

1433
01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:20,920
Speaker 1: like we ended on this completely massive high. And and

1434
01:31:21,080 --> 01:31:25,800
Speaker 1: so you know, I mean from then on it was

1435
01:31:25,880 --> 01:31:30,160
Speaker 1: literally six or I think seven or eight albums in

1436
01:31:30,200 --> 01:31:34,560
Speaker 1: a row, all in eight years. As you've had the

1437
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:40,080
Speaker 1: massive hit, to what degree do you feel the pressure?

1438
01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:43,200
Speaker 1: Internal pressure? How are you going to have a mass

1439
01:31:43,240 --> 01:31:45,040
Speaker 1: if you had on the follow up? Well, what happened

1440
01:31:45,040 --> 01:31:48,280
Speaker 1: in England was when Sweet James was number one in America,

1441
01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:54,280
Speaker 1: it immediately went to number two in Britain because there

1442
01:31:54,320 --> 01:31:57,040
Speaker 1: was a record that was stuck at number one, and

1443
01:31:57,600 --> 01:32:01,679
Speaker 1: of course the record the least before the single before

1444
01:32:01,720 --> 01:32:04,479
Speaker 1: that was a Stranger, came back in the Child at

1445
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:09,200
Speaker 1: number six, and and we had also had that thing

1446
01:32:09,320 --> 01:32:12,040
Speaker 1: of touring a lot in the tourists and in touring

1447
01:32:12,120 --> 01:32:15,200
Speaker 1: the rhythmics, so we had a show. We weren't just like, oh,

1448
01:32:15,320 --> 01:32:17,000
Speaker 1: how we how are we going to do it, which

1449
01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:19,080
Speaker 1: happened to a lot of bands at a time, like

1450
01:32:19,240 --> 01:32:22,439
Speaker 1: heck at one hundred or all these bands came out

1451
01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:26,280
Speaker 1: and got to America and we're like, oh, there was

1452
01:32:26,320 --> 01:32:29,200
Speaker 1: no shot, there's no show, right, So when we played

1453
01:32:29,200 --> 01:32:31,640
Speaker 1: in England, of course it was like blimy, rhythmics are

1454
01:32:31,680 --> 01:32:34,640
Speaker 1: real sort of happening, and there was the Tube and

1455
01:32:34,720 --> 01:32:39,240
Speaker 1: all these different TV shows, and so we went in

1456
01:32:39,320 --> 01:32:45,040
Speaker 1: the studio. Well to put it, really, we never went

1457
01:32:45,160 --> 01:32:48,400
Speaker 1: in a studio. We and it was usually my fault.

1458
01:32:48,479 --> 01:32:51,080
Speaker 1: I was like, well, now let's record in a hotel room.

1459
01:32:51,160 --> 01:32:55,840
Speaker 1: Now let's record in a sort of youth club in

1460
01:32:55,920 --> 01:32:58,920
Speaker 1: the outskirts of Paris, which we did. You know, it

1461
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:01,640
Speaker 1: was always something different because I'm a great believe as

1462
01:33:01,640 --> 01:33:05,559
Speaker 1: a producer like Brian Bryan, you know in a way

1463
01:33:05,640 --> 01:33:09,200
Speaker 1: that like it's not just to do with like sitting

1464
01:33:09,240 --> 01:33:12,200
Speaker 1: there with the engineer in a gray room in a basement,

1465
01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:15,479
Speaker 1: you know, it's to do with everything. You know. So

1466
01:33:15,800 --> 01:33:19,519
Speaker 1: the same as the thought process, you're writing, or well,

1467
01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:21,280
Speaker 1: it might be good to go on the rowing boat,

1468
01:33:21,400 --> 01:33:24,080
Speaker 1: or it might be good. You've got to allow the

1469
01:33:24,160 --> 01:33:27,439
Speaker 1: stuff in rather than just trying to chase it. So

1470
01:33:27,560 --> 01:33:31,959
Speaker 1: your best creative thoughts always happened when you're doing something else. Yes, classically,

1471
01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:33,960
Speaker 1: when you're in the shower, or it's the end of

1472
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:35,880
Speaker 1: the night, you watch a little TV read all of

1473
01:33:35,880 --> 01:33:39,040
Speaker 1: a sudden SUPs as fire. Yeah, I mean, you know,

1474
01:33:39,400 --> 01:33:45,479
Speaker 1: for me and Annie, we then had endless amounts of

1475
01:33:46,439 --> 01:33:50,040
Speaker 1: you know, unrequated love songs kind of because we lived

1476
01:33:50,080 --> 01:33:53,720
Speaker 1: together and now we were forced to get together. But

1477
01:33:53,800 --> 01:33:56,040
Speaker 1: we couldn't be together. I mean even the last songs

1478
01:33:56,200 --> 01:33:59,920
Speaker 1: we wrote together seventeen again, you know, it says who

1479
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:02,240
Speaker 1: couldn't be together, but couldn't be a part? It's like,

1480
01:34:03,320 --> 01:34:07,280
Speaker 1: so that was easy. Um so then we came up

1481
01:34:07,320 --> 01:34:10,599
Speaker 1: with here Comes the Rain Again. To what degree did

1482
01:34:10,680 --> 01:34:14,640
Speaker 1: you feel internal pressure? Did you feel when you went

1483
01:34:14,720 --> 01:34:18,960
Speaker 1: back to record again each time that you could make

1484
01:34:19,120 --> 01:34:24,840
Speaker 1: something that the audience in the business would accept? And

1485
01:34:25,560 --> 01:34:29,320
Speaker 1: I never personally thought like that because I've always been

1486
01:34:29,400 --> 01:34:35,880
Speaker 1: so stupidly positive and confident that things will work at

1487
01:34:36,520 --> 01:34:38,599
Speaker 1: so I personally didn't feel that pressure. I was more

1488
01:34:38,760 --> 01:34:42,120
Speaker 1: in it in my you know, okay, but then you

1489
01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:45,400
Speaker 1: know Tompenny wrote a whole song about it. You know, Uh,

1490
01:34:45,960 --> 01:34:48,519
Speaker 1: the record company doesn't hear a single, so would you

1491
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:52,360
Speaker 1: consciously think, you know, I have to create a single. Well,

1492
01:34:52,640 --> 01:34:57,800
Speaker 1: you know what happened was, um, I think the record.

1493
01:34:57,880 --> 01:35:01,320
Speaker 1: And it was so so shocked and amazing how big

1494
01:35:02,840 --> 01:35:06,920
Speaker 1: our record was around the world that they didn't really

1495
01:35:07,000 --> 01:35:11,760
Speaker 1: bother us. And because I consciously said, let's record in

1496
01:35:11,800 --> 01:35:14,200
Speaker 1: a youth club on the outskirts of Paris, we didn't

1497
01:35:14,240 --> 01:35:15,920
Speaker 1: really have many visitors. You know, it was in the

1498
01:35:16,040 --> 01:35:21,880
Speaker 1: Russian Quarter and so it wasn't like they were checking

1499
01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:23,880
Speaker 1: honest to anything. And we would just say this is

1500
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:27,200
Speaker 1: the single and this is the video that goes with it.

1501
01:35:27,280 --> 01:35:30,559
Speaker 1: And we made video albums ages before people made video albums.

1502
01:35:31,240 --> 01:35:35,040
Speaker 1: And they just thought we were this eccentric duo that

1503
01:35:35,200 --> 01:35:36,479
Speaker 1: they didn't know what was going to happen. But it's

1504
01:35:36,520 --> 01:35:39,679
Speaker 1: probably going to be all right. And I remember John Preston,

1505
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:42,920
Speaker 1: who became head of the label one time, and he

1506
01:35:43,120 --> 01:35:47,479
Speaker 1: was chairman of the British phonographic industry. He came, you know,

1507
01:35:47,680 --> 01:35:50,679
Speaker 1: to meet us and he said, oh, I'm so excited

1508
01:35:50,720 --> 01:35:53,920
Speaker 1: to work with you guys. So when are you going

1509
01:35:54,040 --> 01:35:57,240
Speaker 1: to do your next album? I said, well, we're going

1510
01:35:57,280 --> 01:36:00,760
Speaker 1: to deliver it on me the first and he said,

1511
01:36:01,080 --> 01:36:03,960
Speaker 1: oh great, Can I ask some demos? I said, don't

1512
01:36:04,040 --> 01:36:06,920
Speaker 1: make demos. I think we're only going in there in

1513
01:36:07,000 --> 01:36:10,120
Speaker 1: the studio on April the seventh, and he was like what.

1514
01:36:10,840 --> 01:36:14,000
Speaker 1: So we would actually write and record the whole record

1515
01:36:14,840 --> 01:36:20,600
Speaker 1: in three weeks from scratch. Um. I think it was

1516
01:36:20,720 --> 01:36:25,880
Speaker 1: because I enforced it, because I had in the back

1517
01:36:25,920 --> 01:36:28,559
Speaker 1: of my head like necessity as the mother of invention.

1518
01:36:29,360 --> 01:36:32,240
Speaker 1: So I'd seen these other bands being mons and months

1519
01:36:32,320 --> 01:36:36,120
Speaker 1: in the studio and remixing and adding more things. And

1520
01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:39,599
Speaker 1: I limited it to an eight track when one track

1521
01:36:39,760 --> 01:36:43,600
Speaker 1: was used for what's called a SINC code. And so

1522
01:36:43,680 --> 01:36:46,439
Speaker 1: when I had seven tracks, and I was thinking that

1523
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:49,720
Speaker 1: the early records that the Beatles did on Motown on

1524
01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:53,720
Speaker 1: four tracks and two tracks, and so you would make

1525
01:36:53,880 --> 01:36:58,200
Speaker 1: bounces right there and then you couldn't go back. So

1526
01:36:58,520 --> 01:37:02,000
Speaker 1: and he would do some harmonies we have, you know,

1527
01:37:02,160 --> 01:37:06,040
Speaker 1: like four hands on deck or whatever, have them mixed,

1528
01:37:06,160 --> 01:37:09,080
Speaker 1: and okay, you move it there at this point and

1529
01:37:09,200 --> 01:37:11,960
Speaker 1: bound some all to this one track over here. Hey,

1530
01:37:12,200 --> 01:37:16,479
Speaker 1: we've got four more tracks now, and we just made

1531
01:37:16,520 --> 01:37:19,479
Speaker 1: our records like that. And then I would sit in

1532
01:37:19,600 --> 01:37:23,200
Speaker 1: the mixing room with the engineer who had been working

1533
01:37:23,240 --> 01:37:26,600
Speaker 1: with it, and and just get to the end of

1534
01:37:26,600 --> 01:37:29,400
Speaker 1: a mix that was it. Hooray. You know, we always

1535
01:37:29,479 --> 01:37:34,760
Speaker 1: stopped at seven thirty and drank. We just never went

1536
01:37:34,920 --> 01:37:42,720
Speaker 1: past that start. Let's start about noon, okay. So when

1537
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:45,599
Speaker 1: you were still through every album, we did that. Okay,

1538
01:37:45,840 --> 01:37:50,120
Speaker 1: April seven, you have any musical ideas before you show up.

1539
01:37:51,600 --> 01:37:54,240
Speaker 1: We had the untouched It was the only time we

1540
01:37:54,360 --> 01:37:57,679
Speaker 1: had a song. We started looking out of the Grammars

1541
01:37:58,120 --> 01:38:01,719
Speaker 1: the what are called the Mayfile Hotel overlooking Central Park.

1542
01:38:02,600 --> 01:38:05,840
Speaker 1: We sort of started a tiny tinkly bit of here

1543
01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:10,640
Speaker 1: comes the rain again. Okay. And this works for you

1544
01:38:11,439 --> 01:38:14,400
Speaker 1: because of the pressure, because now you know, I gotta

1545
01:38:14,479 --> 01:38:16,640
Speaker 1: come up with it. It's got to be delivered. The

1546
01:38:16,800 --> 01:38:22,760
Speaker 1: internal pressure, well, I think. Okay. So that's a big

1547
01:38:22,840 --> 01:38:28,439
Speaker 1: question because it's a lot of things in life. When

1548
01:38:28,800 --> 01:38:30,679
Speaker 1: it can be in sport, it can be in music,

1549
01:38:30,800 --> 01:38:36,439
Speaker 1: and be anything. Is having a kind of confidence about

1550
01:38:37,320 --> 01:38:42,519
Speaker 1: what you're about to do now, in fighting or anything.

1551
01:38:42,600 --> 01:38:46,200
Speaker 1: If you if you're slightly doubting it as you're going

1552
01:38:46,280 --> 01:38:48,120
Speaker 1: in you kind of going inside ways, you know what

1553
01:38:48,200 --> 01:38:56,759
Speaker 1: I mean? So h m, we both had a different

1554
01:38:56,880 --> 01:38:59,280
Speaker 1: kind of confidence, if you know what I mean. I

1555
01:38:59,320 --> 01:39:02,920
Speaker 1: don't think I never recorded nanny vocal ever where she

1556
01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:07,160
Speaker 1: ever sang one now attitude. And she never showed me

1557
01:39:07,360 --> 01:39:10,240
Speaker 1: a lyric that she was writing in her journal but

1558
01:39:10,400 --> 01:39:14,439
Speaker 1: or anything that was ever trite or you know, did

1559
01:39:14,520 --> 01:39:18,760
Speaker 1: she write those before the April sev to speak? You know?

1560
01:39:18,920 --> 01:39:22,120
Speaker 1: What happened was what would happen was she would have

1561
01:39:22,600 --> 01:39:26,840
Speaker 1: bits of words in a journal and I would But

1562
01:39:27,320 --> 01:39:29,200
Speaker 1: how we liked to work, which she liked to sit

1563
01:39:29,479 --> 01:39:35,800
Speaker 1: behind while I was fiddling about making tracks, you know,

1564
01:39:36,280 --> 01:39:38,640
Speaker 1: playing something on the airplanes, and then you jump up

1565
01:39:38,640 --> 01:39:40,479
Speaker 1: and go, I want to play on that bit and

1566
01:39:40,600 --> 01:39:43,240
Speaker 1: play that bit, and then she said keep playing up

1567
01:39:43,240 --> 01:39:46,000
Speaker 1: bit over and over again. And she would get bits

1568
01:39:46,080 --> 01:39:49,360
Speaker 1: of the lines in her journal. And then sometimes you said,

1569
01:39:49,360 --> 01:39:51,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't think this is any good?

1570
01:39:51,200 --> 01:39:53,880
Speaker 1: What do you think? And then I would go, I

1571
01:39:54,040 --> 01:39:57,439
Speaker 1: peraeply moved that bit there, that line, and then that

1572
01:39:57,479 --> 01:39:59,840
Speaker 1: would fit over this bit here was like a jigsaw puddle.

1573
01:40:00,720 --> 01:40:03,920
Speaker 1: And but somehows she'd write like a whole load of

1574
01:40:04,000 --> 01:40:06,960
Speaker 1: words that just were like, for instance, sisters are doing

1575
01:40:07,000 --> 01:40:11,200
Speaker 1: it for themselves. We'd finished the record and Annie, what then,

1576
01:40:11,240 --> 01:40:13,519
Speaker 1: so I've written a poem like a you know, sort

1577
01:40:13,520 --> 01:40:16,720
Speaker 1: of a female empowerment home and it was sisters are

1578
01:40:16,760 --> 01:40:19,880
Speaker 1: doing it for themselves and didn't change one word. And

1579
01:40:20,040 --> 01:40:23,920
Speaker 1: I was like, when we should do like an R

1580
01:40:24,040 --> 01:40:26,920
Speaker 1: and B so or in a tiny little room trying

1581
01:40:26,960 --> 01:40:28,880
Speaker 1: to not hear the music I was going on in

1582
01:40:28,960 --> 01:40:31,760
Speaker 1: the other room, and I just did a little loom

1583
01:40:31,800 --> 01:40:35,599
Speaker 1: do do do do do do do a little loom

1584
01:40:35,680 --> 01:40:39,599
Speaker 1: do do, And I said, I'll put this track down

1585
01:40:39,720 --> 01:40:44,040
Speaker 1: like an old record. Now. I was doing everything that.

1586
01:40:44,160 --> 01:40:47,200
Speaker 1: I was picking up boxes and making jam jars with

1587
01:40:47,360 --> 01:40:53,160
Speaker 1: pencils and razor blades and shaking them like and at

1588
01:40:53,200 --> 01:40:55,760
Speaker 1: the time, I was working with Tom a lot, so

1589
01:40:56,280 --> 01:40:58,439
Speaker 1: I was friends with Ben Mont and Mike Campbell and

1590
01:40:59,520 --> 01:41:01,960
Speaker 1: I've got to play on it. I don't know where

1591
01:41:01,960 --> 01:41:05,240
Speaker 1: Annie went at this point, but we made because I

1592
01:41:05,320 --> 01:41:07,360
Speaker 1: remember we're doing an interview two years ago and she

1593
01:41:07,400 --> 01:41:11,640
Speaker 1: didn't realized they were playing on it. But that's on

1594
01:41:11,760 --> 01:41:17,800
Speaker 1: a record just sounded like this monster track, right, And

1595
01:41:17,920 --> 01:41:23,040
Speaker 1: then it was like somebody said, I can't remember, and

1596
01:41:23,160 --> 01:41:24,720
Speaker 1: he said it, or somebody in about says, hey, why

1597
01:41:24,760 --> 01:41:27,280
Speaker 1: don't you do this as a duet were talking about sisters,

1598
01:41:28,320 --> 01:41:30,080
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, who could that be with

1599
01:41:30,320 --> 01:41:33,600
Speaker 1: Tina Turner this one right one? And I think it

1600
01:41:33,720 --> 01:41:36,680
Speaker 1: was Clives might have said, hey, why don't you do

1601
01:41:36,760 --> 01:41:43,800
Speaker 1: with a wreath? And Nanny was like and so. But

1602
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:49,920
Speaker 1: we were excited about it. And Tom Petty's engineer, great guy,

1603
01:41:51,479 --> 01:41:55,280
Speaker 1: but like we flew with him with the tapes. But

1604
01:41:55,640 --> 01:41:59,240
Speaker 1: we got to Detroit and he left him on the plane, right, okay,

1605
01:41:59,360 --> 01:42:03,120
Speaker 1: then what so we're sitting waiting for a Wreatha who

1606
01:42:03,240 --> 01:42:05,920
Speaker 1: was late anyway, then he was I could see him

1607
01:42:05,960 --> 01:42:10,640
Speaker 1: looking all nervously about and he went flying back to

1608
01:42:10,720 --> 01:42:14,120
Speaker 1: the airport and a taxi because there were huge, heavy

1609
01:42:14,200 --> 01:42:17,960
Speaker 1: tapes or something come often said this must be something.

1610
01:42:18,720 --> 01:42:21,760
Speaker 1: We got them back and nothing was said to a

1611
01:42:21,760 --> 01:42:24,920
Speaker 1: Wreatha because she arrived and I've made chicken for y'all,

1612
01:42:25,080 --> 01:42:28,880
Speaker 1: you know, but at the time an Krishna, so it

1613
01:42:29,040 --> 01:42:32,680
Speaker 1: was all like I was like sort of trying to

1614
01:42:32,760 --> 01:42:36,439
Speaker 1: sort of delay time while he arrived out with the tapes.

1615
01:42:37,640 --> 01:42:41,160
Speaker 1: But one of the most amazing experiences I had in

1616
01:42:41,240 --> 01:42:46,200
Speaker 1: a musical sort of emotional sense with somebody else. I

1617
01:42:46,280 --> 01:42:49,400
Speaker 1: had hundreds with Annie. But Aretha told me to come

1618
01:42:49,439 --> 01:42:51,880
Speaker 1: in this room and it was about the size of

1619
01:42:51,960 --> 01:42:54,960
Speaker 1: this which is a very tiny room by the way listeners.

1620
01:42:55,439 --> 01:43:00,960
Speaker 1: And it was a piano, right, piano, and she was

1621
01:43:01,040 --> 01:43:03,639
Speaker 1: playing about on it, and I think she was trying

1622
01:43:03,720 --> 01:43:06,280
Speaker 1: to get to the point of asking me, what's this

1623
01:43:06,400 --> 01:43:08,880
Speaker 1: song really about, like, because she saw Annie with a

1624
01:43:08,960 --> 01:43:10,760
Speaker 1: cropped hair and the whole thing. She was wondering if

1625
01:43:10,800 --> 01:43:15,519
Speaker 1: she was singing a gay anther and but she started

1626
01:43:15,560 --> 01:43:18,880
Speaker 1: off just playing a piano and she started singing, and

1627
01:43:19,000 --> 01:43:22,120
Speaker 1: she sang the whole of the way we were really,

1628
01:43:22,360 --> 01:43:26,639
Speaker 1: you know, the gladdest night and I'm just so funny,

1629
01:43:27,400 --> 01:43:30,000
Speaker 1: can't believe it, little boyfriend. Suddenly I'm leaning on the

1630
01:43:30,080 --> 01:43:35,000
Speaker 1: piano like, you know, as if normal, and her she

1631
01:43:35,120 --> 01:43:39,560
Speaker 1: started crying as she's singing and playing it, and I'm like,

1632
01:43:40,680 --> 01:43:43,800
Speaker 1: BLI me. I was just like stunned, you know. And

1633
01:43:43,960 --> 01:43:46,519
Speaker 1: she didn't say anything about it's just like wiped a

1634
01:43:46,600 --> 01:43:50,160
Speaker 1: tear away and she was like started chatting. And then

1635
01:43:50,240 --> 01:43:52,800
Speaker 1: I noticed she had lots of people with her in

1636
01:43:52,880 --> 01:43:57,040
Speaker 1: the other room, right. I think she might have been

1637
01:43:57,160 --> 01:44:01,280
Speaker 1: singing it to them, and it was onto people. I

1638
01:44:01,439 --> 01:44:05,559
Speaker 1: was asking for something here and something there and like anyway,

1639
01:44:05,720 --> 01:44:08,559
Speaker 1: then she got round to say and so like this song,

1640
01:44:09,040 --> 01:44:12,200
Speaker 1: like she had the lyrics and she said, so, you know,

1641
01:44:12,360 --> 01:44:15,400
Speaker 1: ringing on their own bell. So I just what's the

1642
01:44:15,479 --> 01:44:19,200
Speaker 1: actually mean? They're like I was saying, no, no, I'm

1643
01:44:19,200 --> 01:44:23,760
Speaker 1: making you know, she's She's probably thinking she means like

1644
01:44:23,880 --> 01:44:29,960
Speaker 1: you know, and then yeah and uh and I'm completely convinced.

1645
01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:32,320
Speaker 1: And then she was looking at Annie and she's probably thinking,

1646
01:44:33,400 --> 01:44:35,639
Speaker 1: I'm going to sing a duet with this skinny white

1647
01:44:35,680 --> 01:44:38,960
Speaker 1: girl from Scotland. Does she have any idea who? No

1648
01:44:39,120 --> 01:44:43,320
Speaker 1: idea who? She's just been said, Clive, this is going

1649
01:44:43,360 --> 01:44:46,760
Speaker 1: to be a good idea. And I've got this great

1650
01:44:46,800 --> 01:44:51,000
Speaker 1: bat film on VHS shot through the window of them.

1651
01:44:51,080 --> 01:44:53,880
Speaker 1: So they're around like Mike, facing each other like this,

1652
01:44:54,160 --> 01:44:58,200
Speaker 1: right and aretheis got like her sort of denim jacket

1653
01:44:58,280 --> 01:45:00,679
Speaker 1: with studs in it, and she out of a cigarette

1654
01:45:00,720 --> 01:45:03,160
Speaker 1: and I didn't smoke or anything. It's like smoke going everywhere,

1655
01:45:04,080 --> 01:45:09,080
Speaker 1: and and the song starts, you know, and immediately Annie

1656
01:45:09,120 --> 01:45:12,520
Speaker 1: starts singing, searing the pull a jacket and put a cigarette.

1657
01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:19,960
Speaker 1: She realized she gained sing right, and she's got raised

1658
01:45:20,080 --> 01:45:22,479
Speaker 1: loud voice and he as well, so so then it

1659
01:45:22,600 --> 01:45:27,240
Speaker 1: became almost like a dueling competition, right, And then as

1660
01:45:27,320 --> 01:45:29,160
Speaker 1: it went all the way through at the end you

1661
01:45:29,240 --> 01:45:33,960
Speaker 1: can hear it, you know, the badly blinds equal pay,

1662
01:45:34,120 --> 01:45:37,439
Speaker 1: that's what we say, and Annie's answering, and it was

1663
01:45:37,520 --> 01:45:40,240
Speaker 1: all just like done in a take like that, and

1664
01:45:41,040 --> 01:45:44,680
Speaker 1: no overdubs, nothing, no fixing. Wait, how many takes did

1665
01:45:44,720 --> 01:45:50,160
Speaker 1: you do? Mm hmm maybe two? Maybe he kept the

1666
01:45:50,240 --> 01:45:54,720
Speaker 1: first one and we did a wreath to say a

1667
01:45:54,760 --> 01:45:57,760
Speaker 1: Wreatha said, oh, you got it enough. She was in

1668
01:45:57,880 --> 01:45:59,960
Speaker 1: such a good mood afterwards with all these thoughts, were

1669
01:46:00,280 --> 01:46:04,439
Speaker 1: laughing and playing it back, and I remember George Clinton

1670
01:46:04,520 --> 01:46:07,280
Speaker 1: coming down from somewhere into the room when the rumors

1671
01:46:07,320 --> 01:46:10,880
Speaker 1: filling up with people all listening to it, going fucking hell,

1672
01:46:11,000 --> 01:46:14,800
Speaker 1: this is like, you know, this is serious, like because

1673
01:46:15,240 --> 01:46:18,200
Speaker 1: any track you pushed up of their vocal was amazing.

1674
01:46:18,800 --> 01:46:21,280
Speaker 1: But then I push it up, what the hell's that sound?

1675
01:46:21,320 --> 01:46:24,240
Speaker 1: And it's like a box full of like razor blades

1676
01:46:24,280 --> 01:46:27,679
Speaker 1: and pencils, and and then that goes with the waa

1677
01:46:27,840 --> 01:46:31,840
Speaker 1: over he had and all this stuff, and it didn't

1678
01:46:31,840 --> 01:46:34,160
Speaker 1: matter what you pushed up, which way you left the faders,

1679
01:46:34,240 --> 01:46:37,360
Speaker 1: it still sounded great. Did you ever have any interaction

1680
01:46:37,400 --> 01:46:42,360
Speaker 1: with a week after was successful? Yeah, well I didn't

1681
01:46:42,360 --> 01:46:45,639
Speaker 1: actually go to the video shoot, and it was shot

1682
01:46:45,760 --> 01:46:49,240
Speaker 1: in Detroit, you know, because the wreath it wasn't flying

1683
01:46:49,400 --> 01:46:51,519
Speaker 1: back and on. He flew there. But it's quite funny.

1684
01:46:51,640 --> 01:46:53,360
Speaker 1: I watch it looks like they're not in the same

1685
01:46:53,479 --> 01:46:56,280
Speaker 1: place and that it was put in afterwards. But they

1686
01:46:56,280 --> 01:46:59,200
Speaker 1: were actually on the same stage. But like I don't

1687
01:46:59,240 --> 01:47:05,519
Speaker 1: know why they did it, like eight ft apart and so.

1688
01:47:06,960 --> 01:47:09,360
Speaker 1: But after a giant or had a few things like

1689
01:47:09,520 --> 01:47:12,960
Speaker 1: Clive Davis things, she was always very very nice to me.

1690
01:47:13,040 --> 01:47:19,639
Speaker 1: And I think I think that actually funny enough got

1691
01:47:19,720 --> 01:47:24,120
Speaker 1: a wreathing into a different mode of earning because then

1692
01:47:25,680 --> 01:47:27,639
Speaker 1: she made her obum Freeway of Love and a pink

1693
01:47:27,680 --> 01:47:30,439
Speaker 1: Cadillac by the way, which goes sisters are doing a

1694
01:47:30,680 --> 01:47:34,760
Speaker 1: free day of Loving. It's almost the same backing track,

1695
01:47:34,880 --> 01:47:39,080
Speaker 1: you know. And I got into a a different mode

1696
01:47:39,120 --> 01:47:42,759
Speaker 1: for a wrethis, so I think she was happy about that. Okay,

1697
01:47:42,840 --> 01:47:46,920
Speaker 1: so this is all happening. You make it money? Oh yeah, well,

1698
01:47:46,960 --> 01:47:53,200
Speaker 1: any and I made money from the Sweet Dreams album onwards,

1699
01:47:53,360 --> 01:47:58,280
Speaker 1: because he because of what my dad said, be we

1700
01:47:58,520 --> 01:48:02,240
Speaker 1: formed a company called in a limited and we've learned

1701
01:48:02,280 --> 01:48:07,280
Speaker 1: from all the tourists and all the stuff before how

1702
01:48:07,439 --> 01:48:11,759
Speaker 1: to have a limited company and how to be able

1703
01:48:11,960 --> 01:48:15,800
Speaker 1: to pay our tax taxes correctly. Would also be able

1704
01:48:15,840 --> 01:48:19,080
Speaker 1: to claim a lot of the things that we cost

1705
01:48:19,200 --> 01:48:23,920
Speaker 1: us money, you know. And so we were now a legit,

1706
01:48:24,760 --> 01:48:30,600
Speaker 1: you know company, and we had a proper accountants in

1707
01:48:30,720 --> 01:48:33,880
Speaker 1: it and everything. And so the money would arrive in

1708
01:48:34,000 --> 01:48:38,040
Speaker 1: our Barclay's bank account at the time in the local crush,

1709
01:48:38,160 --> 01:48:40,560
Speaker 1: and the guy who lent us to five thousand was

1710
01:48:40,680 --> 01:48:44,400
Speaker 1: now seeing five hundred thousand the account and more and

1711
01:48:44,560 --> 01:48:48,360
Speaker 1: more and more and more. So um, and we weren't.

1712
01:48:48,400 --> 01:48:52,679
Speaker 1: Actually people are running around going crazy. So I remember

1713
01:48:53,320 --> 01:48:54,880
Speaker 1: when we had quite a lot of money, I rang

1714
01:48:55,000 --> 01:48:57,240
Speaker 1: up my account. I said, you know, do you think

1715
01:48:57,439 --> 01:49:03,080
Speaker 1: I could like buy a car? And he said very

1716
01:49:03,160 --> 01:49:08,320
Speaker 1: typical English legal type of he said, Stewart, I think

1717
01:49:08,360 --> 01:49:12,800
Speaker 1: you have a reason for cautious celebration. I was, I

1718
01:49:12,920 --> 01:49:14,960
Speaker 1: hung up, and I was like trying to think how

1719
01:49:15,040 --> 01:49:19,040
Speaker 1: you celebrate cautious? So you were not proflab good with

1720
01:49:19,080 --> 01:49:22,000
Speaker 1: the money. You you were not blowing it now, but

1721
01:49:22,160 --> 01:49:24,519
Speaker 1: later on I did. I'm I'm the worst person in

1722
01:49:24,600 --> 01:49:27,439
Speaker 1: the world. I had buy a property when it's really

1723
01:49:27,600 --> 01:49:31,439
Speaker 1: high and sell it when the markets crashed. Every time.

1724
01:49:32,760 --> 01:49:36,800
Speaker 1: I just just hopeless at keeping it. I'm quite good

1725
01:49:36,840 --> 01:49:39,400
Speaker 1: at making it. We can't. Okay, how does it end

1726
01:49:39,439 --> 01:49:44,320
Speaker 1: with the rhythmics? Well, I don't know. I mean, I've

1727
01:49:44,400 --> 01:49:46,840
Speaker 1: had dinner in the last two weeks about three times

1728
01:49:46,880 --> 01:49:51,160
Speaker 1: with any here, and we don't really talk much about you.

1729
01:49:51,280 --> 01:49:55,519
Speaker 1: It makes I mean, we played in December at this

1730
01:49:55,920 --> 01:50:02,679
Speaker 1: rainforest fund with Springsteen and Sting and some other people,

1731
01:50:03,600 --> 01:50:08,240
Speaker 1: and we kind of went on stage and we kind

1732
01:50:08,280 --> 01:50:10,960
Speaker 1: of nailed it, you know, so we hadn't played for

1733
01:50:11,479 --> 01:50:14,439
Speaker 1: ages and we sort of and then we never talked

1734
01:50:14,439 --> 01:50:18,320
Speaker 1: about it afterwardside that we just but you know, I'm

1735
01:50:19,040 --> 01:50:24,160
Speaker 1: personally I love touring and playing live. And Annie always

1736
01:50:24,320 --> 01:50:28,280
Speaker 1: wasn't that keen on it, partly because the two hours

1737
01:50:28,439 --> 01:50:32,960
Speaker 1: of singing those kind of songs pitch perfect and actually

1738
01:50:33,640 --> 01:50:36,559
Speaker 1: running around the stage and doing all that. And also

1739
01:50:36,720 --> 01:50:40,479
Speaker 1: she know, she's like I am, I'm sixty seven, so

1740
01:50:40,720 --> 01:50:44,519
Speaker 1: she's a bit older now. Doesn't really want to go

1741
01:50:45,000 --> 01:50:51,280
Speaker 1: flying around changing airports especially nowadays. Um but I actually,

1742
01:50:51,320 --> 01:50:53,640
Speaker 1: I mean, of course, everybody now just has a residency

1743
01:50:53,760 --> 01:50:56,360
Speaker 1: in Vegas and everybody comes to you nothing. You need

1744
01:50:56,400 --> 01:50:58,240
Speaker 1: to do that. But that's what we don't really want,

1745
01:50:58,280 --> 01:51:01,720
Speaker 1: the residency in Vegas, don't really. We never made decisions

1746
01:51:01,840 --> 01:51:04,760
Speaker 1: about that way, like, well, that's where we'll make loads

1747
01:51:04,800 --> 01:51:07,559
Speaker 1: of money, because I think we both like things about life,

1748
01:51:08,280 --> 01:51:10,160
Speaker 1: you know, like how we want to live our life.

1749
01:51:11,160 --> 01:51:14,760
Speaker 1: And that's why I Alwa was so terribly when the

1750
01:51:14,840 --> 01:51:18,000
Speaker 1: markets crashed. I think, I think I'll live in France now,

1751
01:51:18,479 --> 01:51:24,360
Speaker 1: you know. But I'm never sort of really worried about,

1752
01:51:25,120 --> 01:51:27,080
Speaker 1: oh my god, how am I going to make some money?

1753
01:51:27,120 --> 01:51:29,439
Speaker 1: Because I would just easily adapt to not having as

1754
01:51:29,520 --> 01:51:33,720
Speaker 1: much money. Okay, you're right, let's go back. How do

1755
01:51:33,800 --> 01:51:38,559
Speaker 1: you get involved with Tom Petty? Well? God, how did

1756
01:51:38,640 --> 01:51:42,200
Speaker 1: I get involved with Tom Pei? Oh? I remember, I

1757
01:51:42,280 --> 01:51:46,320
Speaker 1: don't even know if this is how it started. Ah.

1758
01:51:47,720 --> 01:51:51,599
Speaker 1: I can't remember if I was involved with Bob Dylan

1759
01:51:51,720 --> 01:51:55,400
Speaker 1: before Tom Petty or I introduced Dylan to the idea

1760
01:51:55,400 --> 01:51:58,800
Speaker 1: of having the Heartbreakers as a band, because I think

1761
01:51:59,600 --> 01:52:01,679
Speaker 1: that I think I did a conversation with Diller once

1762
01:52:02,160 --> 01:52:04,120
Speaker 1: he was saying I never really had a band like

1763
01:52:04,280 --> 01:52:07,280
Speaker 1: the band since the band, but I said, there's only one.

1764
01:52:07,280 --> 01:52:12,439
Speaker 1: I could think it would be the Heartbreakers, right. But yeah,

1765
01:52:12,600 --> 01:52:17,720
Speaker 1: Tom Well say, I'm almost having these crazy ideas about, um,

1766
01:52:18,520 --> 01:52:21,360
Speaker 1: it's a film or TV shows whatever, and I've invented

1767
01:52:21,960 --> 01:52:25,720
Speaker 1: this thing called Beyond the Groove for British television. Where

1768
01:52:25,760 --> 01:52:29,160
Speaker 1: the idea was I'd have all these artists on it,

1769
01:52:29,760 --> 01:52:33,160
Speaker 1: but they all had to be live or acting, you know,

1770
01:52:33,360 --> 01:52:37,120
Speaker 1: acting parts, right, and it had like a little narrative

1771
01:52:37,680 --> 01:52:40,559
Speaker 1: and it was really to show you know, Cadine Lange

1772
01:52:40,680 --> 01:52:43,560
Speaker 1: and Tom Pettey and and they're all in and it

1773
01:52:43,680 --> 01:52:45,519
Speaker 1: was shown on Channel four. I think it was six

1774
01:52:45,640 --> 01:52:48,400
Speaker 1: one hour episodes or something. And I think that was

1775
01:52:49,080 --> 01:52:51,880
Speaker 1: might have been the first time I approached him, and

1776
01:52:52,000 --> 01:52:56,160
Speaker 1: maybe that was late and know when was don't come around?

1777
01:52:56,200 --> 01:52:58,960
Speaker 1: Oh I know why it was, Yeah, because Jimmy Ivan

1778
01:52:59,080 --> 01:53:03,000
Speaker 1: rang up while I was in the studio. I'd written

1779
01:53:03,040 --> 01:53:06,200
Speaker 1: a song all right, this all goes back to the

1780
01:53:06,840 --> 01:53:09,920
Speaker 1: San Francisco and the number one hit like stuff. So

1781
01:53:10,920 --> 01:53:16,800
Speaker 1: in l A before that we'd played and Stevin Nicks

1782
01:53:16,840 --> 01:53:21,120
Speaker 1: asked me afterwards we sort of hanging around in the

1783
01:53:21,240 --> 01:53:24,680
Speaker 1: backstage area and said, hey, I'm having a party at

1784
01:53:24,760 --> 01:53:26,759
Speaker 1: my house. Would you like to come. I didn't actually

1785
01:53:26,800 --> 01:53:29,759
Speaker 1: notice Stevie Nicks, and I didn't know much about Fleetwood

1786
01:53:29,800 --> 01:53:33,400
Speaker 1: Matt because while they were sort of peeking, we were

1787
01:53:33,479 --> 01:53:35,559
Speaker 1: like it was like the Clash and the such bistols.

1788
01:53:35,640 --> 01:53:40,519
Speaker 1: So I said, okay, why not? So she said, well,

1789
01:53:40,560 --> 01:53:42,920
Speaker 1: I've got a car right here, and in the car

1790
01:53:43,080 --> 01:53:45,519
Speaker 1: was her two backing singers. And I went off with

1791
01:53:45,640 --> 01:53:51,200
Speaker 1: her and we got to this house in and it

1792
01:53:51,240 --> 01:53:53,080
Speaker 1: must have been in Beverly Hills. Maybe I didn't know

1793
01:53:53,120 --> 01:53:56,080
Speaker 1: where I was. Now, back in that time, you got imagining,

1794
01:53:56,439 --> 01:53:59,840
Speaker 1: like no cell phones. I'd left my two itinery and

1795
01:54:00,080 --> 01:54:04,080
Speaker 1: dressing room. I just gone off with these people. We

1796
01:54:04,200 --> 01:54:06,280
Speaker 1: got to the house and go in. It's like this

1797
01:54:07,080 --> 01:54:12,479
Speaker 1: massive sort of Gothic type mansion. And in my eyes anyway,

1798
01:54:13,280 --> 01:54:16,519
Speaker 1: and then I'm sitting down, it was like no party,

1799
01:54:16,680 --> 01:54:19,519
Speaker 1: not even any music on, and I can't find them,

1800
01:54:19,960 --> 01:54:23,600
Speaker 1: the three of them, And so they've gone in a

1801
01:54:23,680 --> 01:54:28,920
Speaker 1: bathroom cocaine. Well probably yeah, doing what I would call

1802
01:54:29,040 --> 01:54:34,800
Speaker 1: marching pad. So so I was really naked. You know,

1803
01:54:34,880 --> 01:54:37,680
Speaker 1: we'd flown from somewhere to l a play the show.

1804
01:54:38,760 --> 01:54:41,240
Speaker 1: I would like still in the clothes, like you know,

1805
01:54:42,240 --> 01:54:45,160
Speaker 1: and I was like this huge place. I went along

1806
01:54:45,200 --> 01:54:51,000
Speaker 1: and I found a bedroom that was obviously nobody's, you know,

1807
01:54:51,080 --> 01:54:54,200
Speaker 1: it was like a spare room. I just thought, I've

1808
01:54:54,280 --> 01:54:57,480
Speaker 1: got a crash out. And in the morning at least

1809
01:54:57,520 --> 01:55:00,520
Speaker 1: I had memorized our manager in New York's number office,

1810
01:55:00,720 --> 01:55:03,440
Speaker 1: right and I could ring them and ask them where

1811
01:55:03,480 --> 01:55:05,960
Speaker 1: are the bands and like. And so I went and

1812
01:55:06,120 --> 01:55:12,960
Speaker 1: just crashed out and that. And then at about six

1813
01:55:13,240 --> 01:55:16,760
Speaker 1: or just as the light was coming up, I heard

1814
01:55:16,800 --> 01:55:19,920
Speaker 1: some noises and it was Stevie as if it was

1815
01:55:20,040 --> 01:55:23,360
Speaker 1: like the middle of the day. So of opening these

1816
01:55:24,040 --> 01:55:27,520
Speaker 1: different cupboards and going and trying on all these different

1817
01:55:27,600 --> 01:55:34,040
Speaker 1: Victorian nightclothes or lacey kind of things, and I was like, okay,

1818
01:55:34,280 --> 01:55:37,440
Speaker 1: so anyway, I don't I don't want to go on

1819
01:55:37,520 --> 01:55:40,920
Speaker 1: too much about the rest, but basically we became friends.

1820
01:55:42,040 --> 01:55:45,040
Speaker 1: And then I'll cut to the next bit. I wrote

1821
01:55:45,080 --> 01:55:48,840
Speaker 1: this song in hotel room, and it was don't come

1822
01:55:48,880 --> 01:55:50,960
Speaker 1: around here no more. The chorus, you know, saying don't

1823
01:55:51,040 --> 01:55:56,760
Speaker 1: come around here, and when I'm playing a coral sitar guitar, yeah,

1824
01:55:57,640 --> 01:56:02,000
Speaker 1: not the verses cora and I had played the whole

1825
01:56:02,640 --> 01:56:05,040
Speaker 1: back and chat and the sit our guitar and everything.

1826
01:56:06,120 --> 01:56:11,160
Speaker 1: And when I came back to l A had befriended

1827
01:56:11,240 --> 01:56:14,160
Speaker 1: Jimmy Ivan and he said, hey, you should live with

1828
01:56:14,280 --> 01:56:17,960
Speaker 1: me on the top of Mullholland so I did. And

1829
01:56:18,080 --> 01:56:20,680
Speaker 1: then I didn't realize that he was trying to produce

1830
01:56:20,720 --> 01:56:22,800
Speaker 1: a Stevie Nick's album. But I also didn't know that

1831
01:56:22,880 --> 01:56:26,120
Speaker 1: they've been living together, but now they didn't. So this

1832
01:56:26,280 --> 01:56:30,000
Speaker 1: was just learning the sort of the complicated where but

1833
01:56:30,600 --> 01:56:34,960
Speaker 1: stuff that was going on. So anyway, I played it

1834
01:56:34,960 --> 01:56:37,320
Speaker 1: at Jimmy went, oh god, this is doing a smash

1835
01:56:37,440 --> 01:56:42,760
Speaker 1: for Stevie. Um come to the studio. So he gets

1836
01:56:42,800 --> 01:56:45,960
Speaker 1: Steve with the studio. She comes, you know, about four

1837
01:56:45,960 --> 01:56:50,240
Speaker 1: in the afternoon, and Jimmy goes, this is a smash DV.

1838
01:56:50,560 --> 01:56:53,200
Speaker 1: She said, well, she already knew that I had kind

1839
01:56:53,240 --> 01:56:57,839
Speaker 1: of written this song for her, but she wasn't saying anything.

1840
01:56:58,800 --> 01:57:02,400
Speaker 1: And then we're around she started reciting sort of Shakespeare

1841
01:57:02,520 --> 01:57:08,040
Speaker 1: in the mic on the verses. You know, well, it

1842
01:57:08,320 --> 01:57:13,000
Speaker 1: might not have been Shakespeare, was Shakespearean language. Jamie keeps saying, Stephen, like, listen,

1843
01:57:13,680 --> 01:57:17,200
Speaker 1: it's just just right. You know. The chorus comes in

1844
01:57:17,400 --> 01:57:20,120
Speaker 1: and when she sang her voice on the chorus, it

1845
01:57:20,240 --> 01:57:23,840
Speaker 1: sounded killer. But the verses will are thou and THEE

1846
01:57:23,920 --> 01:57:27,160
Speaker 1: and all this stuff. And so we got around a

1847
01:57:27,200 --> 01:57:32,920
Speaker 1: little piano and Jimmy started saying to Stevie, look, can

1848
01:57:32,960 --> 01:57:35,600
Speaker 1: you stop doing that in front of my friend David,

1849
01:57:35,720 --> 01:57:39,080
Speaker 1: you know, because it's embarrassing. You don't even know. She says,

1850
01:57:39,200 --> 01:57:43,200
Speaker 1: what the fun we slept together the other night. That's

1851
01:57:43,240 --> 01:57:46,800
Speaker 1: the only bit of that story. And Jimmy was like,

1852
01:57:46,960 --> 01:57:49,640
Speaker 1: what he's like looking at me because I hadn't said anything,

1853
01:57:49,720 --> 01:57:52,560
Speaker 1: but I didn't know that they had been living. It

1854
01:57:52,720 --> 01:57:55,720
Speaker 1: was all just and then I was like, oh my god,

1855
01:57:56,200 --> 01:57:59,520
Speaker 1: this is terrible, and she went marching off to the

1856
01:57:59,600 --> 01:58:04,280
Speaker 1: bathroom him. And then Jimmy sort of calmed down and said,

1857
01:58:04,280 --> 01:58:06,120
Speaker 1: I know I'm gonna do. I'm gonna ring up Tom Petty.

1858
01:58:07,280 --> 01:58:11,480
Speaker 1: And so Tom Petty arrived at about an hour and

1859
01:58:11,640 --> 01:58:13,880
Speaker 1: he introduced me and I said, hey, how are you doing?

1860
01:58:14,400 --> 01:58:18,800
Speaker 1: Really did he knew I was? He says in a

1861
01:58:18,920 --> 01:58:23,880
Speaker 1: book somewhere that he had said to Jimmy already I

1862
01:58:23,960 --> 01:58:27,160
Speaker 1: want to do something different, well about this guy, But

1863
01:58:27,320 --> 01:58:30,320
Speaker 1: I don't think you would have, you know, just such

1864
01:58:30,360 --> 01:58:34,320
Speaker 1: an obscure choice of person I would be with anyway.

1865
01:58:35,360 --> 01:58:38,840
Speaker 1: So he Jimmy plays the song to him and it's

1866
01:58:38,880 --> 01:58:41,280
Speaker 1: like always a confusing song for him and the harbor,

1867
01:58:41,400 --> 01:58:45,320
Speaker 1: as would Sita, but he had some Jack Daniels and

1868
01:58:47,880 --> 01:58:50,520
Speaker 1: I don't think what else we had, But anyway, we

1869
01:58:50,680 --> 01:58:52,880
Speaker 1: got on like a house on fire. He said, oh,

1870
01:58:52,880 --> 01:58:55,160
Speaker 1: why don't you come back to my garage under the house,

1871
01:58:55,200 --> 01:58:59,080
Speaker 1: I've got a studio. So we go there and then

1872
01:58:59,360 --> 01:59:03,240
Speaker 1: Jimmy sees what's happening, so his tags along. He goes.

1873
01:59:03,400 --> 01:59:07,480
Speaker 1: We all go at the garage and we decided to

1874
01:59:07,640 --> 01:59:09,640
Speaker 1: play it with his band. But the band are looking

1875
01:59:09,720 --> 01:59:11,920
Speaker 1: a bit sort of annoyed because this is nothing like

1876
01:59:13,440 --> 01:59:17,560
Speaker 1: you know, the album, which is about Southern accidents and

1877
01:59:18,440 --> 01:59:21,720
Speaker 1: and I you know, I'm from the northeast of English.

1878
01:59:22,360 --> 01:59:25,680
Speaker 1: What do I know? All I knew is that I

1879
01:59:25,840 --> 01:59:28,680
Speaker 1: love the song Refugee because it was the only song

1880
01:59:28,840 --> 01:59:33,560
Speaker 1: that's slightly fitted in the punk era where I'd come

1881
01:59:33,640 --> 01:59:36,000
Speaker 1: from in England. You know that he was the only

1882
01:59:36,040 --> 01:59:38,160
Speaker 1: band that could play at a festival with the clash

1883
01:59:38,240 --> 01:59:43,440
Speaker 1: on it, you know, so um he started to sort

1884
01:59:43,480 --> 01:59:47,600
Speaker 1: of you know, you know, calm the band down, like

1885
01:59:47,800 --> 01:59:49,520
Speaker 1: you know, and I said, listen, I've got an idea,

1886
01:59:49,600 --> 01:59:53,320
Speaker 1: like obviously I've made this on this little fourth track

1887
01:59:53,360 --> 01:59:55,520
Speaker 1: port to studio, I carried around with a drum machine

1888
01:59:55,560 --> 01:59:57,920
Speaker 1: and a sit on. This doesn't sound anything like you guys,

1889
01:59:58,000 --> 02:00:00,480
Speaker 1: I can tell it, but why not at the end

1890
02:00:01,360 --> 02:00:04,520
Speaker 1: you come in right as the band, And then I said,

1891
02:00:04,760 --> 02:00:07,200
Speaker 1: I had a whole idea about, Hey, it could be

1892
02:00:07,280 --> 02:00:09,840
Speaker 1: like the Mad Hat's Tea Party and then you know

1893
02:00:09,920 --> 02:00:12,800
Speaker 1: the whole madness of end up being the video. Yeah,

1894
02:00:12,800 --> 02:00:15,800
Speaker 1: it would end up being a video. And so the

1895
02:00:15,880 --> 02:00:18,320
Speaker 1: band came in and then Mike comes into this great

1896
02:00:18,360 --> 02:00:23,080
Speaker 1: wah wild guitar solo, and Tom got sort of it

1897
02:00:23,200 --> 02:00:26,080
Speaker 1: kind of broke a kind of spell because he had

1898
02:00:26,120 --> 02:00:28,280
Speaker 1: gotten really sort of down in the middle of this

1899
02:00:28,680 --> 02:00:31,200
Speaker 1: album and it was all getting it was taking a

1900
02:00:31,280 --> 02:00:33,880
Speaker 1: long time, and and this all of a sudden, it

1901
02:00:34,000 --> 02:00:37,880
Speaker 1: was just this is just not like anything on Earth, right,

1902
02:00:38,720 --> 02:00:41,880
Speaker 1: and to this that I'd still be weird, like there's

1903
02:00:41,920 --> 02:00:44,720
Speaker 1: this someone a Mad Hat's Tea Party video and drum

1904
02:00:44,840 --> 02:00:49,040
Speaker 1: machine and it's the interesting thing was he was cold. Yeah,

1905
02:00:49,200 --> 02:00:51,080
Speaker 1: you know, we'd done the album with Jimmy and they

1906
02:00:51,120 --> 02:00:53,680
Speaker 1: did long after dark. This didn't sound like this and

1907
02:00:53,760 --> 02:00:57,480
Speaker 1: this is what reinvigorated his career. Yeah, but you know

1908
02:00:58,360 --> 02:01:01,480
Speaker 1: I understood for the Heartbreakers, they were like, what on

1909
02:01:01,600 --> 02:01:04,920
Speaker 1: earth is this alien from out of space? But then

1910
02:01:05,000 --> 02:01:08,880
Speaker 1: they started playing it live and it started to change

1911
02:01:08,960 --> 02:01:12,120
Speaker 1: the whole show. And then Tom started coming out with

1912
02:01:12,200 --> 02:01:15,440
Speaker 1: the top hat live and then it started to be

1913
02:01:15,520 --> 02:01:18,760
Speaker 1: a different show. And then when they played the end bit,

1914
02:01:18,880 --> 02:01:23,200
Speaker 1: they extended it and it became this amazing solo with mine.

1915
02:01:23,280 --> 02:01:27,760
Speaker 1: Did you cut the final version his garage that day? Yeah? Okay,

1916
02:01:28,160 --> 02:01:30,040
Speaker 1: since you keep bringing them up, how did you be dealing?

1917
02:01:31,960 --> 02:01:37,880
Speaker 1: I was in a studio right in Los Angeles and

1918
02:01:38,120 --> 02:01:41,560
Speaker 1: there was this Irish kid called Fergil Sharky from the Undertones,

1919
02:01:43,000 --> 02:01:47,920
Speaker 1: and the lady receptions at the studio rang through and said,

1920
02:01:48,280 --> 02:01:51,560
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan's on the line for Dave Stuart and I

1921
02:01:51,760 --> 02:01:54,800
Speaker 1: just went, oh, this is Fergil because we were we're

1922
02:01:54,840 --> 02:01:57,400
Speaker 1: always lacking about with each other, and I paid, I

1923
02:01:57,480 --> 02:02:02,000
Speaker 1: went yeah, and this voice started speaking and I was like,

1924
02:02:03,440 --> 02:02:06,560
Speaker 1: it's definitely not this is definitely Bob Jel and nobody

1925
02:02:06,600 --> 02:02:10,640
Speaker 1: can imitate that voice, you know, And he he said,

1926
02:02:11,960 --> 02:02:14,400
Speaker 1: you know, I can't really do his Swiss good. I

1927
02:02:14,480 --> 02:02:16,960
Speaker 1: was just wondering, like you like movies and I was

1928
02:02:17,040 --> 02:02:22,760
Speaker 1: like yeah, she says, yeah, yeah, I like movies. Do

1929
02:02:22,840 --> 02:02:24,680
Speaker 1: you want to go get bite to eat? And I

1930
02:02:24,840 --> 02:02:30,760
Speaker 1: was like okay. I went to meet him and he said,

1931
02:02:30,840 --> 02:02:35,000
Speaker 1: you choose the place. So I was thinking, um, so

1932
02:02:35,400 --> 02:02:38,240
Speaker 1: I knew these Thai people who had a restaurant sunset

1933
02:02:38,320 --> 02:02:41,720
Speaker 1: called the Tali Side, and I said to them, look,

1934
02:02:41,880 --> 02:02:44,000
Speaker 1: you know, can you just get me a look like

1935
02:02:44,440 --> 02:02:47,640
Speaker 1: a tiny bit of it to the side, not in

1936
02:02:47,720 --> 02:02:50,320
Speaker 1: the window or anything else. So they didn't built the

1937
02:02:50,360 --> 02:02:54,440
Speaker 1: whole hedge kind of and they kept bringing out all

1938
02:02:54,520 --> 02:02:57,400
Speaker 1: of the dishes instead of one, like you know, four

1939
02:02:57,560 --> 02:03:01,840
Speaker 1: different tom car guys and stuff. But he didn't anything

1940
02:03:01,880 --> 02:03:05,440
Speaker 1: about that. But we ordered some drinks and all that stuff.

1941
02:03:07,200 --> 02:03:10,800
Speaker 1: And then he said and that's was my girlfriend at

1942
02:03:10,800 --> 02:03:13,640
Speaker 1: the time. And after that he said, hey, do you

1943
02:03:13,720 --> 02:03:16,760
Speaker 1: want to come with me to During the meal, he

1944
02:03:16,920 --> 02:03:19,760
Speaker 1: was asking what kind of movies I liked? And you

1945
02:03:19,840 --> 02:03:22,600
Speaker 1: know what, you know, what kind of music I listened

1946
02:03:22,640 --> 02:03:24,560
Speaker 1: to and all the stuff we've done. Let's go back

1947
02:03:24,600 --> 02:03:27,760
Speaker 1: a chapter. You're in Sunderland playing It's all Right by

1948
02:03:27,880 --> 02:03:31,560
Speaker 1: your folk guitar. Yeah, you're out to dinner with Bob Dylan,

1949
02:03:31,680 --> 02:03:35,400
Speaker 1: what's going through your mind? Well, I think it's a

1950
02:03:35,440 --> 02:03:37,760
Speaker 1: bit like the thing when you know, I was explaining

1951
02:03:37,840 --> 02:03:40,840
Speaker 1: your eyes realized you're gonna have a car crash, right,

1952
02:03:41,400 --> 02:03:44,320
Speaker 1: So I think at the time you don't panic, it's

1953
02:03:44,360 --> 02:03:49,760
Speaker 1: just afterwards you go fucking what happened. In fact, you

1954
02:03:49,920 --> 02:03:53,800
Speaker 1: might find this funny, but there's a a TV series

1955
02:03:54,760 --> 02:04:00,240
Speaker 1: started in Britain and the first episode it's called um

1956
02:04:02,160 --> 02:04:06,640
Speaker 1: It's something. It's like something like about a rumor or something,

1957
02:04:07,200 --> 02:04:10,200
Speaker 1: but it's basically an actor playing Bob Dylan coming to

1958
02:04:10,360 --> 02:04:13,879
Speaker 1: visit me in England. And I won't tell you anymore.

1959
02:04:13,880 --> 02:04:17,080
Speaker 1: I'll send you the link. It's very it's hilariously funny

1960
02:04:17,080 --> 02:04:21,600
Speaker 1: and brilliantly done, brilliantly acted. But basically, yeah, it's kind

1961
02:04:21,640 --> 02:04:23,480
Speaker 1: of odd because you know, he was very much It

1962
02:04:23,560 --> 02:04:27,760
Speaker 1: wasn't really an interrogation. It was more like almost like

1963
02:04:29,120 --> 02:04:33,200
Speaker 1: an interview. You wanted to know, like all this stuff.

1964
02:04:33,200 --> 02:04:37,040
Speaker 1: But when I started talking about like, you know, blues

1965
02:04:37,160 --> 02:04:39,400
Speaker 1: players that I liked and this and that and ones

1966
02:04:39,480 --> 02:04:43,080
Speaker 1: that were quite obscure, and he was like, oh, they

1967
02:04:43,240 --> 02:04:45,280
Speaker 1: really sort of livened up and he was talking about

1968
02:04:45,280 --> 02:04:49,640
Speaker 1: all this stuff and and and then I talked about

1969
02:04:49,720 --> 02:04:54,120
Speaker 1: you know, French filmmakers and all sorts of different Italian

1970
02:04:54,160 --> 02:04:58,800
Speaker 1: filmmakers and and it's like, yeah, right, well you want

1971
02:04:58,800 --> 02:05:02,240
Speaker 1: to come to this place with me? And I said okay,

1972
02:05:02,400 --> 02:05:07,200
Speaker 1: So I followed. It was like going miles easterly somewhere

1973
02:05:07,200 --> 02:05:10,920
Speaker 1: I don't know where I was, And we pulled up

1974
02:05:10,920 --> 02:05:13,280
Speaker 1: at the back of this sort of bumpy car park

1975
02:05:14,120 --> 02:05:17,280
Speaker 1: and there's a door and we get to the door

1976
02:05:18,440 --> 02:05:21,280
Speaker 1: and he does like knock on the door and I'm thinking,

1977
02:05:22,040 --> 02:05:24,920
Speaker 1: where are we and the door arms and this is

1978
02:05:25,720 --> 02:05:28,440
Speaker 1: God's own us truth. It's just so like a Bob

1979
02:05:28,480 --> 02:05:31,800
Speaker 1: Dylan's song. It's the door ups as as a very

1980
02:05:31,920 --> 02:05:39,600
Speaker 1: small person in a wedding dress, Mexican lady, and she

1981
02:05:39,680 --> 02:05:44,440
Speaker 1: goes Bobby and I'm like okay. And as we were

1982
02:05:44,480 --> 02:05:47,960
Speaker 1: walking and he says, drink out of the bottle, so

1983
02:05:48,120 --> 02:05:52,000
Speaker 1: I said okay. So we're going there and we're drinking

1984
02:05:52,320 --> 02:05:56,720
Speaker 1: bottles of beer and then it's quite a beautiful other

1985
02:05:57,560 --> 02:06:00,840
Speaker 1: woman comes and sits next to us talking and he goes,

1986
02:06:01,000 --> 02:06:05,240
Speaker 1: how about we start shooting tomorrow? And I'm like it's

1987
02:06:05,360 --> 02:06:08,280
Speaker 1: like two in the morning. I'm like, you mean today?

1988
02:06:08,320 --> 02:06:11,400
Speaker 1: He goes, yeah, today this this girl's going to be

1989
02:06:11,520 --> 02:06:16,560
Speaker 1: in it, and I'm like, okay, so what's it about?

1990
02:06:17,880 --> 02:06:23,600
Speaker 1: And then so we just well, like I was like

1991
02:06:23,760 --> 02:06:27,680
Speaker 1: scrambling the next morning and I found okay and shoot

1992
02:06:27,800 --> 02:06:33,560
Speaker 1: something in a church right on the corner of like Highland, right,

1993
02:06:34,400 --> 02:06:37,280
Speaker 1: and he said, oh yeah, I want to do this

1994
02:06:37,600 --> 02:06:42,520
Speaker 1: song called no it's not called tight Connection to My Heart,

1995
02:06:42,560 --> 02:06:46,880
Speaker 1: it's called when the Night Comes Falling from the sky, right.

1996
02:06:47,240 --> 02:06:48,760
Speaker 1: And then I want to do the snow one called

1997
02:06:49,040 --> 02:06:52,600
Speaker 1: Emotionally Yours all in the same day, and I'm like,

1998
02:06:52,760 --> 02:06:55,960
Speaker 1: the one's a ballad and ones like this, and so

1999
02:06:56,840 --> 02:06:59,680
Speaker 1: I'm thinking he means a video. He keeps calling them

2000
02:06:59,720 --> 02:07:02,520
Speaker 1: phil for it because and then they only said I

2001
02:07:02,560 --> 02:07:06,720
Speaker 1: hate making videos. So on the one when the Night

2002
02:07:06,800 --> 02:07:10,400
Speaker 1: Comes Falling from the skies, literally me and him, and

2003
02:07:10,480 --> 02:07:13,680
Speaker 1: I got Clembert on drums and Fergel who was in

2004
02:07:13,760 --> 02:07:17,600
Speaker 1: the studio playing tambourine, and the girl who he said,

2005
02:07:17,640 --> 02:07:22,360
Speaker 1: we'll be in it like miming you know, when the

2006
02:07:22,480 --> 02:07:26,440
Speaker 1: Night comes falling, right, So and just filmed it like

2007
02:07:26,520 --> 02:07:29,600
Speaker 1: a performance, but we start off in a bus. I

2008
02:07:29,720 --> 02:07:32,320
Speaker 1: made it like how mad it was that nobody knows

2009
02:07:32,400 --> 02:07:35,200
Speaker 1: what was happening. I had Steve from Talk and Heads,

2010
02:07:35,240 --> 02:07:38,080
Speaker 1: the percussion player, and we go on the bus and

2011
02:07:38,160 --> 02:07:42,120
Speaker 1: we go there in emotionally years. He says, now I

2012
02:07:42,240 --> 02:07:45,160
Speaker 1: want a girl to play Elizabeth Taylor in this one.

2013
02:07:45,880 --> 02:07:51,959
Speaker 1: This is like three in the afternoon, like ah okay.

2014
02:07:52,480 --> 02:07:57,600
Speaker 1: So so then he said, yeah, I want to I

2015
02:07:57,680 --> 02:07:59,800
Speaker 1: want to have an argument with it in the song

2016
02:08:01,040 --> 02:08:05,080
Speaker 1: so you can see it online and it's like, so

2017
02:08:05,520 --> 02:08:07,480
Speaker 1: there's just a piano in the middle of the room

2018
02:08:08,360 --> 02:08:10,920
Speaker 1: like coming through the window and he sings, you know,

2019
02:08:10,960 --> 02:08:15,280
Speaker 1: emotionally ours and then it goes to a bridge section

2020
02:08:16,320 --> 02:08:19,120
Speaker 1: and it's outside not far from the church. We walked

2021
02:08:19,120 --> 02:08:22,320
Speaker 1: across from around the corner and I just got the

2022
02:08:22,400 --> 02:08:27,920
Speaker 1: girls just swinging on a rope like Rember right, and

2023
02:08:28,200 --> 02:08:31,480
Speaker 1: he's just sitting at the tree like and they're sort

2024
02:08:31,480 --> 02:08:34,879
Speaker 1: of having an argument without speaking, and then she storms

2025
02:08:34,920 --> 02:08:38,040
Speaker 1: off down the street. This is all done in like

2026
02:08:39,000 --> 02:08:43,440
Speaker 1: like zero time to get ready for it. And so

2027
02:08:43,560 --> 02:08:46,959
Speaker 1: after that we became friends and he came to England

2028
02:08:47,400 --> 02:08:51,160
Speaker 1: and he messed around in the church. We never Everybody

2029
02:08:51,240 --> 02:08:52,800
Speaker 1: kept saying you produced, some ve done and I said no,

2030
02:08:52,880 --> 02:08:56,320
Speaker 1: we never did anything apart from just jamming making up

2031
02:08:56,440 --> 02:09:00,200
Speaker 1: stuff and being sort of friends really, and then when

2032
02:09:00,240 --> 02:09:02,360
Speaker 1: he came to England another time, he said, hey, why

2033
02:09:02,400 --> 02:09:07,800
Speaker 1: don't we make another one their films like Tomorrow and okay,

2034
02:09:07,880 --> 02:09:11,040
Speaker 1: So I hired a top hat from the BBC. So

2035
02:09:11,120 --> 02:09:13,400
Speaker 1: when he came around at twelve o'clock, all I had

2036
02:09:13,520 --> 02:09:16,800
Speaker 1: was to eight million meter Sindy cameras and I saw

2037
02:09:16,800 --> 02:09:20,360
Speaker 1: a pat so he put the top hat on. We

2038
02:09:20,480 --> 02:09:23,120
Speaker 1: went down Camden Lock Market because I knew the area

2039
02:09:24,040 --> 02:09:27,800
Speaker 1: and on a house boat and I just decided to

2040
02:09:27,920 --> 02:09:30,600
Speaker 1: film see what would happen if I had a long

2041
02:09:30,760 --> 02:09:33,080
Speaker 1: lens across the other side of the road and Dylan

2042
02:09:33,160 --> 02:09:36,000
Speaker 1: just walked around with the top hat on. And of

2043
02:09:36,120 --> 02:09:38,520
Speaker 1: course what happened was Peter looked like the scene it goes.

2044
02:09:38,880 --> 02:09:42,920
Speaker 1: It was like whoa, or they would start following and

2045
02:09:43,000 --> 02:09:46,120
Speaker 1: it became like the pie Piper. And then I lay

2046
02:09:46,160 --> 02:09:49,080
Speaker 1: on the ground and filmed them walking over me like

2047
02:09:49,200 --> 02:09:53,760
Speaker 1: the pie Piper. And this we didn't even know we're

2048
02:09:53,800 --> 02:09:56,400
Speaker 1: going to do this till he pulled out a trap

2049
02:09:56,480 --> 02:09:59,000
Speaker 1: that it recorded. This is the weird thing he had

2050
02:09:59,080 --> 02:10:02,280
Speaker 1: forgotten that I got a studio putting his garage from

2051
02:10:02,600 --> 02:10:06,400
Speaker 1: up at on the top of you know where he

2052
02:10:06,520 --> 02:10:11,520
Speaker 1: lives on just past Blabu. I got a friend of

2053
02:10:11,600 --> 02:10:13,880
Speaker 1: mine and I got some equipment and just sort of

2054
02:10:13,960 --> 02:10:16,480
Speaker 1: put a studio there for him, which he never ever

2055
02:10:16,640 --> 02:10:19,080
Speaker 1: used it, but it was, you know, a multi track

2056
02:10:19,200 --> 02:10:24,600
Speaker 1: track soundcraft studio. He could record there, and because he

2057
02:10:25,040 --> 02:10:27,480
Speaker 1: was saying he hated the recording process too, as well

2058
02:10:27,560 --> 02:10:31,680
Speaker 1: as making videos, and so then he said, ha, I

2059
02:10:31,880 --> 02:10:36,000
Speaker 1: used that studio, And I said, and he'd used just

2060
02:10:36,480 --> 02:10:40,840
Speaker 1: two tracks on it to record acoustic guitar and voice.

2061
02:10:41,520 --> 02:10:44,080
Speaker 1: And there was that whole album Blood in My Eyes,

2062
02:10:44,440 --> 02:10:46,840
Speaker 1: and we did that video to Blood in my Eyes,

2063
02:10:47,040 --> 02:10:50,600
Speaker 1: just shot on eight millie sydy camera. I had too,

2064
02:10:50,800 --> 02:10:52,680
Speaker 1: but like I was trying to get a shot to

2065
02:10:52,720 --> 02:10:56,000
Speaker 1: cut away and this my brother in law went past

2066
02:10:56,640 --> 02:10:59,920
Speaker 1: for a second. I said, quick shoot with this camera

2067
02:11:00,000 --> 02:11:01,800
Speaker 1: out and he goes, why, I said, that's Bob done

2068
02:11:01,840 --> 02:11:04,240
Speaker 1: over there. He goes, fuck. He said, okay, so he

2069
02:11:04,280 --> 02:11:07,560
Speaker 1: should say, and I'm filming, and then he says, hey,

2070
02:11:07,720 --> 02:11:09,280
Speaker 1: I have to give you a camera back because I'm

2071
02:11:09,360 --> 02:11:13,760
Speaker 1: getting the tiles from my mom's kitchen. And I'm like, sucking,

2072
02:11:15,880 --> 02:11:20,040
Speaker 1: I know, but that's very sort of english. Singly, well,

2073
02:11:20,080 --> 02:11:23,600
Speaker 1: I have to go because I'm doing this. But I

2074
02:11:23,720 --> 02:11:28,120
Speaker 1: love that video. It turned out great. Um, but yeah,

2075
02:11:28,360 --> 02:11:32,520
Speaker 1: do you maintain contact with him? Well, yeah, so sometimes

2076
02:11:33,600 --> 02:11:36,440
Speaker 1: my past messages back because you never know where he is.

2077
02:11:37,680 --> 02:11:41,200
Speaker 1: But jeff Rozen, you know, we passed messages back and

2078
02:11:41,320 --> 02:11:47,520
Speaker 1: forth fire jeff Rozen. Yeah, and he's always been great

2079
02:11:47,680 --> 02:11:51,040
Speaker 1: and like obviously the messages are the things that I

2080
02:11:52,200 --> 02:11:55,440
Speaker 1: passed to him. The fact he said, actually the funniest thing,

2081
02:11:55,640 --> 02:12:00,280
Speaker 1: the fastest Bob has ever replied to anything. Well, when

2082
02:12:00,440 --> 02:12:02,960
Speaker 1: I asked him if you could make some wrought iron

2083
02:12:03,120 --> 02:12:07,880
Speaker 1: gates for my house in Jamaica, you know, just like it,

2084
02:12:08,040 --> 02:12:14,800
Speaker 1: just like yeah, like you could probably turn down, you know,

2085
02:12:14,880 --> 02:12:19,440
Speaker 1: would you like to accept the sortle Nobel prize but

2086
02:12:19,520 --> 02:12:24,280
Speaker 1: it'll make the gates? Well I engage. Yeah, okay, because

2087
02:12:24,360 --> 02:12:27,640
Speaker 1: I understand why you say, because like him, you know,

2088
02:12:28,040 --> 02:12:30,360
Speaker 1: you're doing a lot of metal work, and love's getting

2089
02:12:30,360 --> 02:12:33,400
Speaker 1: all broken up old stuff and turning them into things

2090
02:12:33,520 --> 02:12:38,480
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. So I understand. But yeah, okay,

2091
02:12:38,680 --> 02:12:42,960
Speaker 1: why is it that you are become friendly with all

2092
02:12:43,040 --> 02:12:48,960
Speaker 1: these people? Why do you think that is? Um mm hmm,

2093
02:12:52,000 --> 02:12:54,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. It's hard to answer

2094
02:12:54,240 --> 02:12:56,920
Speaker 1: that question. I mean, they could be varying things. One

2095
02:12:56,960 --> 02:12:59,600
Speaker 1: you could say someone so talented, they're tracking them down

2096
02:12:59,640 --> 02:13:01,720
Speaker 1: for the out. But even when you listen to you,

2097
02:13:02,120 --> 02:13:04,520
Speaker 1: you're a good time. Even when I met you, like

2098
02:13:04,600 --> 02:13:07,280
Speaker 1: a year ago, you're very friendly. You you you treat

2099
02:13:07,320 --> 02:13:11,040
Speaker 1: everybody like an equal, etcetera. But you know, it's a

2100
02:13:11,080 --> 02:13:13,200
Speaker 1: little bit like the movie's like you talk about that

2101
02:13:13,320 --> 02:13:16,560
Speaker 1: you fit in anywhere. Do you think it's something about

2102
02:13:16,600 --> 02:13:19,360
Speaker 1: your personality or people respect your work or what do

2103
02:13:19,440 --> 02:13:23,680
Speaker 1: you think that? I think, probably now that I'm older,

2104
02:13:23,920 --> 02:13:31,520
Speaker 1: it's because I'm very enthusiastic about stuff and that's very infectious.

2105
02:13:32,320 --> 02:13:36,840
Speaker 1: So um, and that I don't particularly want anything from

2106
02:13:37,600 --> 02:13:43,200
Speaker 1: the person and love. Successful people are often approached because

2107
02:13:43,240 --> 02:13:49,440
Speaker 1: somebody wants something, right, So I'm just really enthusiastic. And

2108
02:13:50,080 --> 02:13:55,240
Speaker 1: I suppose having worked with lots of different people and

2109
02:13:55,440 --> 02:14:00,320
Speaker 1: it being such a small industry, um, so well would

2110
02:14:00,360 --> 02:14:02,800
Speaker 1: get around, Oh this is this kind of personal This

2111
02:14:02,960 --> 02:14:06,800
Speaker 1: is an enthusiastic person. You might probably have a you know,

2112
02:14:07,200 --> 02:14:10,080
Speaker 1: good session or but I don't even do session. I say,

2113
02:14:10,200 --> 02:14:13,839
Speaker 1: I never approach anybody to try and write with anybody.

2114
02:14:14,000 --> 02:14:18,040
Speaker 1: I've never said to my publisher, well, why aren't I

2115
02:14:18,120 --> 02:14:19,960
Speaker 1: writing a song with them, or I've never said a

2116
02:14:20,040 --> 02:14:23,560
Speaker 1: record company, hey, I want to produce this band, not one,

2117
02:14:24,320 --> 02:14:32,600
Speaker 1: So it's um that probably two people seems odd because

2118
02:14:33,760 --> 02:14:36,600
Speaker 1: I've never thought of anything as a career, like, oh,

2119
02:14:36,720 --> 02:14:39,880
Speaker 1: I'll be a record producer. Now what the record producers do?

2120
02:14:40,000 --> 02:14:42,960
Speaker 1: When you make records and then once they're write, you

2121
02:14:43,000 --> 02:14:44,560
Speaker 1: look for the next band you're going to make a

2122
02:14:44,640 --> 02:14:48,040
Speaker 1: record with and you're being a producer. And I've never thought, oh,

2123
02:14:48,640 --> 02:14:51,720
Speaker 1: I'm just a songwriter, so right, I must find somebody

2124
02:14:51,760 --> 02:14:54,800
Speaker 1: that writes songs with or write songs. I just actually,

2125
02:14:54,920 --> 02:14:58,240
Speaker 1: I'm just doing whatever I want to do. Okay, let's

2126
02:14:58,240 --> 02:15:01,640
Speaker 1: switch to yours you deuced? Or we're one of the

2127
02:15:01,720 --> 02:15:05,360
Speaker 1: producers on the last Stevie Nicks record, which is on

2128
02:15:05,560 --> 02:15:08,800
Speaker 1: the one I produced, the one before and then the

2129
02:15:08,920 --> 02:15:11,640
Speaker 1: last one. Yeah, okay, but the last one with secret

2130
02:15:11,760 --> 02:15:15,400
Speaker 1: Love and all that other stuff, that's the best album

2131
02:15:15,560 --> 02:15:19,320
Speaker 1: since the first one. Okay, especially that title track. I've

2132
02:15:19,400 --> 02:15:22,800
Speaker 1: listened to that dozens of times. It's not enough. How

2133
02:15:22,840 --> 02:15:25,600
Speaker 1: did you come to work with her again? All right?

2134
02:15:25,840 --> 02:15:31,040
Speaker 1: So what happened to us having you know, known Stevie

2135
02:15:31,120 --> 02:15:33,520
Speaker 1: jo in the eighties and then lost touch a bit

2136
02:15:34,200 --> 02:15:37,160
Speaker 1: and then sometime I can't remember. It might have been

2137
02:15:37,200 --> 02:15:44,480
Speaker 1: in the nineties. UM Jimmy said they're going to do

2138
02:15:45,240 --> 02:15:49,360
Speaker 1: an HBO. It might have been two thousands, even early

2139
02:15:49,440 --> 02:15:53,960
Speaker 1: two thousand's. They want to do a TV show UM

2140
02:15:54,880 --> 02:15:59,800
Speaker 1: in partnership with HBO, and would I be the per

2141
02:16:00,040 --> 02:16:04,120
Speaker 1: us and that interviews various people for it. So HBO

2142
02:16:05,440 --> 02:16:09,520
Speaker 1: made UM a pilot. They want to make a pilot,

2143
02:16:09,520 --> 02:16:11,240
Speaker 1: and Jimmy said, oh, why don't we do the pilot

2144
02:16:11,320 --> 02:16:15,240
Speaker 1: with Stevie. I said, okay, she wants to do it,

2145
02:16:15,360 --> 02:16:17,680
Speaker 1: so then we spoke on the phone. Then we were

2146
02:16:17,760 --> 02:16:19,920
Speaker 1: laughing and talking on the phone, and she says, yeah, yeah,

2147
02:16:20,000 --> 02:16:22,000
Speaker 1: this will be great. I love to do it. So

2148
02:16:22,120 --> 02:16:25,960
Speaker 1: we made that pilot with Stevie, which nobody's ever seen,

2149
02:16:27,240 --> 02:16:30,520
Speaker 1: and then we made a real one with you two

2150
02:16:31,320 --> 02:16:35,200
Speaker 1: with one oh and edge where actually, if you could

2151
02:16:35,200 --> 02:16:38,200
Speaker 1: see it uncut, it's funny because we get absolutely plastered

2152
02:16:39,040 --> 02:16:43,320
Speaker 1: because somebody had the bright idea of halfway through the

2153
02:16:43,440 --> 02:16:47,760
Speaker 1: interview with an audience in the break, they bring us

2154
02:16:47,879 --> 02:16:51,280
Speaker 1: jokes of Margarita. This is like three or four in

2155
02:16:51,320 --> 02:16:56,480
Speaker 1: the afternoon, and of course after that the interview goes

2156
02:16:56,560 --> 02:17:01,440
Speaker 1: Haywire and lots of things that are probably off, you know,

2157
02:17:01,879 --> 02:17:06,560
Speaker 1: like we're cut out, We're really interesting that Bono and

2158
02:17:06,680 --> 02:17:10,480
Speaker 1: Edge were talking about. But I think that aired, and

2159
02:17:10,680 --> 02:17:13,920
Speaker 1: then I did a one with Ringo where he shows

2160
02:17:14,080 --> 02:17:16,720
Speaker 1: how he plays left handed and why you did that

2161
02:17:16,840 --> 02:17:19,640
Speaker 1: drum feel like this and all that stuff and and

2162
02:17:20,600 --> 02:17:25,520
Speaker 1: so that's how connected. Okay, So what do you think

2163
02:17:25,560 --> 02:17:28,480
Speaker 1: about the music business in the Internet age, because certainly

2164
02:17:28,640 --> 02:17:32,480
Speaker 1: radically different from it was in the pre Internet era. Well,

2165
02:17:33,560 --> 02:17:37,679
Speaker 1: I think what's happened is the barbel is slid completely,

2166
02:17:38,000 --> 02:17:41,640
Speaker 1: almost vertically up and down. So the middle class of

2167
02:17:42,440 --> 02:17:46,080
Speaker 1: the music business, meaning all the bands that could get

2168
02:17:46,200 --> 02:17:51,000
Speaker 1: by by just telling you know a number of albums

2169
02:17:51,120 --> 02:17:53,680
Speaker 1: that allowed them to go and play live, I mean

2170
02:17:54,040 --> 02:17:58,040
Speaker 1: that kind of disappeared. And all of the artists who

2171
02:17:58,160 --> 02:18:05,760
Speaker 1: became enormously successful very quickly, like you know, well quickly comparatively,

2172
02:18:05,920 --> 02:18:08,640
Speaker 1: but like the Taylor Swift State hearings and people are

2173
02:18:08,720 --> 02:18:11,320
Speaker 1: that are earning as much as the Beatles did in

2174
02:18:11,400 --> 02:18:14,520
Speaker 1: their whole career in a very short space of time

2175
02:18:14,680 --> 02:18:17,800
Speaker 1: because of all the ways in which they can perform

2176
02:18:17,920 --> 02:18:20,000
Speaker 1: now and all of the ways they can put stuffat

2177
02:18:20,120 --> 02:18:24,480
Speaker 1: and the brands and everything, so you know all of

2178
02:18:24,520 --> 02:18:27,240
Speaker 1: the brand attachments and stuff. So then you've got the

2179
02:18:27,320 --> 02:18:31,480
Speaker 1: ones even below the middle class that slid down to

2180
02:18:31,640 --> 02:18:36,320
Speaker 1: the young starting out who are getting advised. Like I

2181
02:18:36,440 --> 02:18:39,960
Speaker 1: read something the other day, I think it was a

2182
02:18:40,080 --> 02:18:44,000
Speaker 1: CD baby put something saying, oh, if you're an independent

2183
02:18:44,160 --> 02:18:47,720
Speaker 1: artist wanting to release a single in here's a few

2184
02:18:47,760 --> 02:18:49,760
Speaker 1: suggestions of what to do. And it was about nine

2185
02:18:49,800 --> 02:18:54,440
Speaker 1: pages long, and I was thinking, like, even for myself,

2186
02:18:54,480 --> 02:18:59,959
Speaker 1: who understands just about most things about you know, marketing, Internet, everything,

2187
02:19:00,640 --> 02:19:03,160
Speaker 1: I would just be bored after about the third line

2188
02:19:03,200 --> 02:19:06,279
Speaker 1: of it and just give up and say, you know them,

2189
02:19:06,400 --> 02:19:08,520
Speaker 1: I might as well go back and just start working

2190
02:19:08,840 --> 02:19:13,720
Speaker 1: at the shipyards, you know. So um, I think it's

2191
02:19:13,879 --> 02:19:19,880
Speaker 1: an absolutely absolute nightmare crisis for artists that's been going

2192
02:19:19,959 --> 02:19:24,480
Speaker 1: on for quite a while in certain areas of the

2193
02:19:24,680 --> 02:19:28,560
Speaker 1: art form, you know, and not in music definitely, because

2194
02:19:28,640 --> 02:19:30,760
Speaker 1: we were the first to go cosse MP three's were

2195
02:19:30,840 --> 02:19:38,480
Speaker 1: so smaller download but generally UM writers and journalism and

2196
02:19:39,640 --> 02:19:44,160
Speaker 1: in many areas it's just become the barbell is right

2197
02:19:44,879 --> 02:19:50,280
Speaker 1: turned vertically instead of horizontally. And I think if I

2198
02:19:50,520 --> 02:19:53,760
Speaker 1: was a new artist then starting out now I'd be

2199
02:19:53,879 --> 02:19:57,119
Speaker 1: so lost as to where to start. The noise that's

2200
02:19:57,200 --> 02:20:01,160
Speaker 1: been generated through all of the people you know, eating

2201
02:20:01,600 --> 02:20:06,560
Speaker 1: raw chili and getting millions of views on YouTube and like,

2202
02:20:07,280 --> 02:20:10,080
Speaker 1: you know, just all of the things that's happening that people.

2203
02:20:11,360 --> 02:20:15,520
Speaker 1: I suppose I would call it like the meat. When

2204
02:20:15,560 --> 02:20:19,760
Speaker 1: it changed to being me, we kind of like, hang on,

2205
02:20:21,040 --> 02:20:25,600
Speaker 1: I think I could do something and you know, go

2206
02:20:25,800 --> 02:20:30,320
Speaker 1: on YouTube and do a makeup tutorial or do this

2207
02:20:30,560 --> 02:20:35,600
Speaker 1: or do that. Um, it's confused with the people who

2208
02:20:35,640 --> 02:20:38,280
Speaker 1: are actually I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that,

2209
02:20:38,760 --> 02:20:42,280
Speaker 1: and there's some great people on their helping addiction and

2210
02:20:42,360 --> 02:20:45,600
Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff, but it's jumbled up with people

2211
02:20:45,640 --> 02:20:49,080
Speaker 1: who are trying to put out art or music and

2212
02:20:50,080 --> 02:20:52,720
Speaker 1: there's no sort of division. So if there was a division,

2213
02:20:53,160 --> 02:20:55,400
Speaker 1: they tried to make one, like you know, YouTube for

2214
02:20:55,600 --> 02:20:59,240
Speaker 1: artists or Spotify for artists. But all of these things

2215
02:20:59,320 --> 02:21:02,440
Speaker 1: they don't realize is because look, when the mob was

2216
02:21:02,560 --> 02:21:05,080
Speaker 1: running things, to tell you the truth, it was a

2217
02:21:05,160 --> 02:21:08,280
Speaker 1: lot easier because like, at least they like music would

2218
02:21:08,320 --> 02:21:10,360
Speaker 1: come down the studio and give you drugs and money.

2219
02:21:11,320 --> 02:21:13,480
Speaker 1: But you know you don't get that from Google, right,

2220
02:21:13,600 --> 02:21:15,840
Speaker 1: the Google's like not going to pop in the studio,

2221
02:21:16,000 --> 02:21:18,360
Speaker 1: go hey, you'll do. And by the way, he's some coke.

2222
02:21:19,160 --> 02:21:22,760
Speaker 1: It's like now, it's just like when your money is

2223
02:21:23,000 --> 02:21:29,160
Speaker 1: disappearing into you know, some vacuous space and then they

2224
02:21:29,320 --> 02:21:33,440
Speaker 1: give in their annual returns of billions and schoollions and

2225
02:21:34,560 --> 02:21:38,680
Speaker 1: the tax was all avoided by all these schemes through

2226
02:21:38,920 --> 02:21:41,920
Speaker 1: Ireland and or whatever. And I'm just looking at it

2227
02:21:42,000 --> 02:21:47,280
Speaker 1: all and you know, um from a perspective of like

2228
02:21:47,520 --> 02:21:50,920
Speaker 1: a nineteen year old kid or whatever who's written a

2229
02:21:51,040 --> 02:21:54,920
Speaker 1: great song and he lives in Nebraska, and and I'm

2230
02:21:55,000 --> 02:21:59,320
Speaker 1: thinking it must just look like sort of like insanity.

2231
02:22:00,120 --> 02:22:03,880
Speaker 1: So I my suggestion to any of these kind of

2232
02:22:04,120 --> 02:22:07,920
Speaker 1: kids starting at is, look, I think the same thing

2233
02:22:08,080 --> 02:22:10,160
Speaker 1: might work is when I was a kid in the

2234
02:22:10,240 --> 02:22:13,760
Speaker 1: folk club. As you go and try and find somewhere

2235
02:22:14,240 --> 02:22:18,440
Speaker 1: to play, and you sing your songs to that small

2236
02:22:18,520 --> 02:22:21,200
Speaker 1: audience of ten, and then maybe he's twenty, and then

2237
02:22:21,280 --> 02:22:25,160
Speaker 1: maybe he's fifty. And forget about thinking that you've got

2238
02:22:25,280 --> 02:22:30,400
Speaker 1: like ninety six friends on Instagram or whatever. Just like

2239
02:22:30,720 --> 02:22:33,320
Speaker 1: go in your local town and then go to the

2240
02:22:33,400 --> 02:22:37,080
Speaker 1: town next door and the town next door. Somehow, Now

2241
02:22:37,200 --> 02:22:41,039
Speaker 1: that I'm creating some things that I think might help

2242
02:22:41,120 --> 02:22:45,840
Speaker 1: because there's so many ridiculous problems to play. You know,

2243
02:22:45,920 --> 02:22:47,520
Speaker 1: you used to actually get even when I played in

2244
02:22:47,560 --> 02:22:49,960
Speaker 1: a folk club, they would give me fifty pence some

2245
02:22:50,160 --> 02:22:54,760
Speaker 1: free beer. Now they're so, yeah, you can play here. No, no,

2246
02:22:55,040 --> 02:22:57,800
Speaker 1: we don't pay you, you can just you're allowed to

2247
02:22:57,879 --> 02:23:02,080
Speaker 1: play here. And so every we're all on the line. Musicians,

2248
02:23:02,680 --> 02:23:06,880
Speaker 1: young upcoming musicians and guys have been doing it for ages,

2249
02:23:07,000 --> 02:23:09,680
Speaker 1: but now they can't sell any records and the streaming

2250
02:23:10,520 --> 02:23:17,080
Speaker 1: is very low income. All of those people, all of

2251
02:23:17,200 --> 02:23:20,279
Speaker 1: the the ways in which they would make a living

2252
02:23:20,440 --> 02:23:23,480
Speaker 1: has been kind of stripped away now with the we're

2253
02:23:23,560 --> 02:23:29,800
Speaker 1: talking here while there's been the outbreak of coronavirus. So

2254
02:23:30,200 --> 02:23:32,000
Speaker 1: some people are going, well, we don't sell records, but

2255
02:23:32,080 --> 02:23:35,680
Speaker 1: we can play live now all the concerts are council. Now.

2256
02:23:35,760 --> 02:23:39,640
Speaker 1: I was meant to be playing from today actually at

2257
02:23:40,080 --> 02:23:44,280
Speaker 1: the Grammy Museum, just to talk in a performance and

2258
02:23:44,400 --> 02:23:49,040
Speaker 1: like so I had my drama fly from Philadelphia, not

2259
02:23:49,160 --> 02:23:52,160
Speaker 1: from Cleveland. Surrey and Judith Hill who was going to

2260
02:23:52,640 --> 02:23:56,320
Speaker 1: we all rehearsed yesterday and there was guitar tics and

2261
02:23:56,520 --> 02:23:58,640
Speaker 1: roadies and you know the amount of people you have

2262
02:23:58,840 --> 02:24:03,360
Speaker 1: to do something and then we're not doing it. Now

2263
02:24:03,480 --> 02:24:06,760
Speaker 1: put that on a scale times a million all around

2264
02:24:06,800 --> 02:24:10,080
Speaker 1: the world, whether you're a group in India or Thailand,

2265
02:24:10,240 --> 02:24:14,960
Speaker 1: or France or Italy or it's just that's been stripped

2266
02:24:15,000 --> 02:24:20,480
Speaker 1: away too, so nobody knows. When you know, the world's

2267
02:24:20,520 --> 02:24:24,040
Speaker 1: given the all clear, which I don't imagine a siren

2268
02:24:24,120 --> 02:24:30,480
Speaker 1: going off soon going everybody can come. So but I mean,

2269
02:24:30,640 --> 02:24:34,800
Speaker 1: you know this, the same problem has happened to car

2270
02:24:35,200 --> 02:24:39,480
Speaker 1: workers in the car industry or stuff all over the world.

2271
02:24:39,560 --> 02:24:42,519
Speaker 1: I think the one thing that people as a misconception

2272
02:24:42,640 --> 02:24:48,480
Speaker 1: about artists is I'm talking about you know, musical artists,

2273
02:24:49,400 --> 02:24:52,080
Speaker 1: is that soon as they put a single out or

2274
02:24:52,080 --> 02:24:55,360
Speaker 1: an EP or a video, people think they're making an income.

2275
02:24:55,840 --> 02:24:57,879
Speaker 1: Now they're not. It probably borrowed the money off their

2276
02:24:57,920 --> 02:25:02,360
Speaker 1: anti or their dad and they're probably isn't their dad's

2277
02:25:02,520 --> 02:25:05,760
Speaker 1: car and like to try and get to a gig,

2278
02:25:05,959 --> 02:25:08,840
Speaker 1: and if the dad has a car, I mean it's

2279
02:25:08,920 --> 02:25:12,880
Speaker 1: like it's it's just not easy and it's getting more

2280
02:25:12,920 --> 02:25:16,080
Speaker 1: and more tangled and complicating that it's just because all

2281
02:25:16,160 --> 02:25:19,879
Speaker 1: the corporations gobbled each other up. It started I'll tell

2282
02:25:19,879 --> 02:25:22,480
Speaker 1: you the beginning for me when I realized this is

2283
02:25:22,560 --> 02:25:25,199
Speaker 1: the beginning at the end. And it was the middle

2284
02:25:25,240 --> 02:25:28,600
Speaker 1: of the eighties and the head of the record label

2285
02:25:29,560 --> 02:25:32,240
Speaker 1: changed and a guy came in from Hurts rent a

2286
02:25:32,320 --> 02:25:36,400
Speaker 1: car to run our c A Records, and my manager

2287
02:25:36,480 --> 02:25:40,600
Speaker 1: was Gary Kerr first, who managed to talking B fifty two.

2288
02:25:41,520 --> 02:25:44,040
Speaker 1: You know it was, yeah, it was like kind of

2289
02:25:45,240 --> 02:25:50,360
Speaker 1: semi gangster, but but it great taste in music, the

2290
02:25:50,440 --> 02:25:54,920
Speaker 1: B fifty twos, talking heads, the Rabones, rhythmics. And he

2291
02:25:55,080 --> 02:25:57,800
Speaker 1: just said, I just can't talk to him. You're just

2292
02:25:57,959 --> 02:26:01,240
Speaker 1: like freaking out there. Just can't talk to the guy

2293
02:26:01,320 --> 02:26:04,400
Speaker 1: about music because he didn't understand and know anything. And

2294
02:26:04,480 --> 02:26:06,720
Speaker 1: I was going in to deliver an album called Be

2295
02:26:06,840 --> 02:26:10,240
Speaker 1: Yourself Tonight and he didn't want to go in there.

2296
02:26:10,760 --> 02:26:14,480
Speaker 1: Gary was like, I just give up, and so I said,

2297
02:26:14,520 --> 02:26:17,800
Speaker 1: I want to go and meet him and give the album.

2298
02:26:17,920 --> 02:26:21,360
Speaker 1: So he was a huge Colombian guy, and he and

2299
02:26:21,480 --> 02:26:25,000
Speaker 1: shook my hand nearly broke my fingers and he said

2300
02:26:25,520 --> 02:26:28,280
Speaker 1: Stewart loved the album, just like Ghostbusters, and I was like,

2301
02:26:28,680 --> 02:26:36,080
Speaker 1: like Ghostbusters, it's like what anyway? I thought, Okay, this

2302
02:26:36,400 --> 02:26:40,200
Speaker 1: is just the weirdest thing. And then you know, the

2303
02:26:40,280 --> 02:26:43,880
Speaker 1: whole murder case where his son's murder him and his wife.

2304
02:26:44,560 --> 02:26:47,760
Speaker 1: And then I'll find out through various people who been

2305
02:26:47,879 --> 02:26:51,920
Speaker 1: involved in all of those stories, like, oh, yeah, that's why.

2306
02:26:52,040 --> 02:26:56,520
Speaker 1: Because Tom Petty was confused why we were selling massive

2307
02:26:56,560 --> 02:26:59,400
Speaker 1: amount of albums around the world and the medium amount

2308
02:26:59,400 --> 02:27:03,480
Speaker 1: in America, but selling out everywhere, cover of rollings to

2309
02:27:03,600 --> 02:27:06,000
Speaker 1: everything you can imagined. And it was because he was

2310
02:27:06,520 --> 02:27:10,560
Speaker 1: printing them in Colombia and selling them through the Peacher's

2311
02:27:10,680 --> 02:27:13,080
Speaker 1: chain or something and putting it in the soft porn

2312
02:27:13,160 --> 02:27:17,440
Speaker 1: industry and laundering it through a talcompared to company and like,

2313
02:27:18,720 --> 02:27:20,720
Speaker 1: and I was kind of right when I walked in

2314
02:27:20,840 --> 02:27:22,920
Speaker 1: and thought this is the beginning of the end. It

2315
02:27:23,040 --> 02:27:26,240
Speaker 1: was actually when he said he had an idea, and

2316
02:27:26,320 --> 02:27:28,960
Speaker 1: it was we were going to be the CD was

2317
02:27:29,000 --> 02:27:31,800
Speaker 1: going to be on the top of a giant sized

2318
02:27:31,920 --> 02:27:36,280
Speaker 1: drink from a Hamburger chain, like pressed into the top,

2319
02:27:37,000 --> 02:27:43,760
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm not sure about that. Yeah,

2320
02:27:43,879 --> 02:27:46,560
Speaker 1: And so it's just went pretty much downhill from there.

2321
02:27:48,120 --> 02:27:51,000
Speaker 1: When the Internet happened among these people that sort of

2322
02:27:51,080 --> 02:27:56,160
Speaker 1: early on kind of new things were coming, and I

2323
02:27:56,280 --> 02:27:59,520
Speaker 1: had friends who were like Internet sort of obsessed geeks

2324
02:27:59,600 --> 02:28:02,880
Speaker 1: in the the nineties, you know, and so when it

2325
02:28:03,040 --> 02:28:05,200
Speaker 1: was by the time it was two thousand and two

2326
02:28:05,320 --> 02:28:08,480
Speaker 1: thousand and one, and I could see what was going

2327
02:28:08,520 --> 02:28:15,320
Speaker 1: to happen. I actually I organized a meeting. This is crazy,

2328
02:28:15,360 --> 02:28:20,000
Speaker 1: but I think a quote in my book by the chairman, know,

2329
02:28:20,720 --> 02:28:23,960
Speaker 1: the board of Deutsche Bank, a guy called Michael Philip,

2330
02:28:24,240 --> 02:28:28,840
Speaker 1: who said, you know, I organized a meeting, and at

2331
02:28:28,920 --> 02:28:32,920
Speaker 1: that meeting turned up was like, you know, lou Reid

2332
02:28:33,320 --> 02:28:41,560
Speaker 1: Stevie Wonder, Dr Dre's guy. I can't remember anyway, you know,

2333
02:28:42,200 --> 02:28:45,720
Speaker 1: George Olivia Harrison, I can imagine all around one table

2334
02:28:46,800 --> 02:28:50,200
Speaker 1: and I did as this talk about the internet and

2335
02:28:50,920 --> 02:28:55,240
Speaker 1: how we have to sort of somehow take control over something.

2336
02:28:55,840 --> 02:28:58,160
Speaker 1: And he put a quote in my book he said,

2337
02:28:58,720 --> 02:29:02,040
Speaker 1: there's two talk for hours about the future of digital

2338
02:29:02,280 --> 02:29:05,320
Speaker 1: digitalization and the incident he says at a banker. I

2339
02:29:05,320 --> 02:29:07,600
Speaker 1: didn't know what the hell he was talking about. He said.

2340
02:29:07,640 --> 02:29:09,720
Speaker 1: Five years later we all found out. But it was

2341
02:29:09,800 --> 02:29:12,880
Speaker 1: like I could just see what was going to happen.

2342
02:29:14,280 --> 02:29:17,480
Speaker 1: And I had created this thing called fab you know,

2343
02:29:17,600 --> 02:29:20,920
Speaker 1: the first startist bank. Like this has to be some

2344
02:29:21,080 --> 02:29:25,359
Speaker 1: kind of bank vault, not literally for money for stuff,

2345
02:29:26,040 --> 02:29:29,120
Speaker 1: otherwise it's just going to be all over the place, right,

2346
02:29:30,200 --> 02:29:35,920
Speaker 1: and and you have no control over any taste. Right.

2347
02:29:36,040 --> 02:29:40,080
Speaker 1: So we make a video of sweet Dreams, and that's

2348
02:29:40,080 --> 02:29:41,840
Speaker 1: a video that was on the TV and you could

2349
02:29:41,840 --> 02:29:44,160
Speaker 1: see it, and we had control over the look and

2350
02:29:44,240 --> 02:29:47,640
Speaker 1: feel of it. Now you can type sweet dreams in

2351
02:29:47,800 --> 02:29:50,000
Speaker 1: Google and there will be hundreds of videos come up,

2352
02:29:50,160 --> 02:29:55,640
Speaker 1: and it's be anything from the dance girls dancing in

2353
02:29:55,680 --> 02:30:02,120
Speaker 1: a Betha to it to all sorts of of unimaginable things,

2354
02:30:02,240 --> 02:30:05,960
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like you have to almost just

2355
02:30:06,280 --> 02:30:10,160
Speaker 1: go well, okay, Like but imagine if you're a painter

2356
02:30:10,360 --> 02:30:12,840
Speaker 1: and just allowed like a hundred people coming out. I

2357
02:30:12,920 --> 02:30:16,400
Speaker 1: think I'll change that paint over that and that should

2358
02:30:16,400 --> 02:30:18,400
Speaker 1: be dark brand, you know, not red. What the hell

2359
02:30:18,440 --> 02:30:22,680
Speaker 1: are you doing? Like Picasso? You know? Okay, So today

2360
02:30:23,200 --> 02:30:26,040
Speaker 1: Spotify Top fifty is mostly hip hop. What's your view

2361
02:30:26,120 --> 02:30:31,280
Speaker 1: on hip hop? Uh? Well, funny enough, I love loads

2362
02:30:31,400 --> 02:30:34,920
Speaker 1: of I've always been very eclectic, so I love loads

2363
02:30:34,920 --> 02:30:38,280
Speaker 1: of hip hop music. I love lots of rap music,

2364
02:30:38,360 --> 02:30:42,920
Speaker 1: but obviously I'm drawn towards the ones that have kind

2365
02:30:42,959 --> 02:30:47,560
Speaker 1: of interesting lyrics to me, because I I do like

2366
02:30:47,840 --> 02:30:51,000
Speaker 1: loads of the beats that they create in hip hop

2367
02:30:51,160 --> 02:30:54,680
Speaker 1: music and all the all the transitional beats. I mean,

2368
02:30:55,600 --> 02:30:59,520
Speaker 1: I always was crazy about reggae music from the beginning,

2369
02:31:00,040 --> 02:31:04,960
Speaker 1: and I love lots of different Afro rhythms and King

2370
02:31:05,080 --> 02:31:09,080
Speaker 1: Sunnia Day and so when hip hop started experimenting and

2371
02:31:09,240 --> 02:31:11,240
Speaker 1: now you know trip hop and you know, all the

2372
02:31:11,320 --> 02:31:15,480
Speaker 1: different kinds of beats, I like it, but I'm not

2373
02:31:16,040 --> 02:31:20,400
Speaker 1: too keen on. You know, the tracks that just keep

2374
02:31:20,480 --> 02:31:27,280
Speaker 1: repeating the same misogynistic stuff are more keen on. Um.

2375
02:31:28,000 --> 02:31:31,520
Speaker 1: You know when they're saying something you know and which

2376
02:31:32,800 --> 02:31:35,400
Speaker 1: you know. There was some great n w A and

2377
02:31:36,360 --> 02:31:38,840
Speaker 1: when all that first came out, it was a very

2378
02:31:38,920 --> 02:31:44,280
Speaker 1: exciting moment in time, a bit like punk music coming out. Um.

2379
02:31:45,080 --> 02:31:48,920
Speaker 1: But again, what's happened is there's such an easy way

2380
02:31:49,000 --> 02:31:54,720
Speaker 1: to upload everything. So there's an avalanche of people making

2381
02:31:54,720 --> 02:32:00,080
Speaker 1: stuff in their bedroom on their laptop and then just

2382
02:32:00,200 --> 02:32:03,520
Speaker 1: putting it out everywhere YouTube, saying claud wherever you want,

2383
02:32:04,080 --> 02:32:08,960
Speaker 1: there's this stuff. So it's it's a labyrinth. You know.

2384
02:32:09,040 --> 02:32:12,240
Speaker 1: I've got four kids, all mad about music. Three of

2385
02:32:12,280 --> 02:32:18,400
Speaker 1: them are musicians, and you know they they have been

2386
02:32:18,959 --> 02:32:23,400
Speaker 1: basically exposed to this since they were bought right, so

2387
02:32:24,280 --> 02:32:26,440
Speaker 1: they can like with through all sorts of stuff and

2388
02:32:27,320 --> 02:32:31,359
Speaker 1: eliminate all this stuff. And but they still are overwhelmed.

2389
02:32:31,400 --> 02:32:35,720
Speaker 1: They'll say they're overwhelmed by everything. They're overwhelmed by the news,

2390
02:32:36,320 --> 02:32:40,640
Speaker 1: by the amount of bombardment of things coming at them

2391
02:32:41,000 --> 02:32:45,760
Speaker 1: in music, and and they actually struggle, like now what

2392
02:32:45,920 --> 02:32:49,320
Speaker 1: to do? They just want to do the real thing

2393
02:32:49,959 --> 02:32:52,240
Speaker 1: and be the real thing. Listen, as bad as it

2394
02:32:52,400 --> 02:32:55,400
Speaker 1: is for them, it's for the customer. You're completely overwhelmed,

2395
02:32:56,160 --> 02:32:58,800
Speaker 1: and uh, let's go. So in the time you have

2396
02:32:58,959 --> 02:33:03,320
Speaker 1: left here on the plane, what's the dream? Well, everything

2397
02:33:03,600 --> 02:33:08,960
Speaker 1: I'm doing really music is the intel inside of it.

2398
02:33:09,879 --> 02:33:16,879
Speaker 1: So I'm actually trying to create stuff with other people

2399
02:33:17,360 --> 02:33:21,520
Speaker 1: that helps the balance of that. Barbella was talking about

2400
02:33:21,560 --> 02:33:26,440
Speaker 1: tips lightly that way again, Um, I don't want to

2401
02:33:26,720 --> 02:33:28,640
Speaker 1: give away too much of the stuff I'm doing, but

2402
02:33:28,800 --> 02:33:35,280
Speaker 1: like it's to do with them ideas that changed the way.

2403
02:33:36,120 --> 02:33:39,160
Speaker 1: Oh just get to be able to play live. That

2404
02:33:39,360 --> 02:33:41,520
Speaker 1: doesn't cost them so much to do it, but they

2405
02:33:41,600 --> 02:33:45,160
Speaker 1: can still travel around, although that just changed in the

2406
02:33:45,280 --> 02:33:51,480
Speaker 1: last the last three days, you know. But it's usually

2407
02:33:51,600 --> 02:33:57,800
Speaker 1: to do with songs and what songs, the power of songs,

2408
02:33:57,920 --> 02:34:01,720
Speaker 1: what songs can do, how songs can help our music

2409
02:34:01,840 --> 02:34:06,560
Speaker 1: and help in various situations and things to do with

2410
02:34:07,120 --> 02:34:14,240
Speaker 1: um political social, political situations. But I only like to

2411
02:34:14,360 --> 02:34:17,680
Speaker 1: use things that I understand, which goes back to music

2412
02:34:17,760 --> 02:34:24,840
Speaker 1: as the intel inside. So you know, Um, for instance,

2413
02:34:26,400 --> 02:34:28,400
Speaker 1: not long ago, there was a film called A Private

2414
02:34:28,480 --> 02:34:34,440
Speaker 1: War and about Marie Colvin and you know journalists in France,

2415
02:34:34,520 --> 02:34:37,800
Speaker 1: and and a friend of mine and Just Stones actually

2416
02:34:38,640 --> 02:34:40,480
Speaker 1: is portrayed in the film. He was the guy who

2417
02:34:40,560 --> 02:34:42,640
Speaker 1: was with her and worked with her and everything. And

2418
02:34:43,760 --> 02:34:46,640
Speaker 1: he wrote the words to a song called take Good

2419
02:34:46,720 --> 02:34:49,199
Speaker 1: Care and we recorded and we gave it to Amnesty.

2420
02:34:49,320 --> 02:34:52,280
Speaker 1: And then it's just doing stuff in music all the time.

2421
02:34:52,400 --> 02:34:55,760
Speaker 1: Like I used to work with anit Erotic in trying

2422
02:34:55,879 --> 02:34:59,920
Speaker 1: to get Herman Wallace freed from the Angle of three

2423
02:35:00,920 --> 02:35:05,520
Speaker 1: in prison, which eventually he did get freed, but he'd

2424
02:35:05,680 --> 02:35:08,560
Speaker 1: already had cancer at that point. But you've been thirty

2425
02:35:08,640 --> 02:35:13,880
Speaker 1: years in solitary confinement. Um the stuff I did, you know,

2426
02:35:14,840 --> 02:35:20,480
Speaker 1: years ago, creating Nelson Mandela's four six four, and then

2427
02:35:21,080 --> 02:35:24,160
Speaker 1: he used music as the way to get it a

2428
02:35:24,240 --> 02:35:29,119
Speaker 1: bit of attention. But I like doing this stuff beforehand.

2429
02:35:29,240 --> 02:35:33,080
Speaker 1: That's preparing it so that it doesn't fizzle out like

2430
02:35:33,200 --> 02:35:37,320
Speaker 1: a firework, you know. Um, And I just continue doing

2431
02:35:37,400 --> 02:35:40,119
Speaker 1: that stuff. I mean, I love writing songs, I must admit,

2432
02:35:41,040 --> 02:35:47,520
Speaker 1: and I actually have gone back to I didn't tell

2433
02:35:47,560 --> 02:35:50,240
Speaker 1: you one bit at the beginning. But like my dad's

2434
02:35:51,360 --> 02:35:53,320
Speaker 1: I give him a lot of credit from blowing my

2435
02:35:53,400 --> 02:35:55,680
Speaker 1: mind with music when I was about four or five,

2436
02:35:56,680 --> 02:35:59,360
Speaker 1: because he had a tiny little workshop and in it

2437
02:36:00,720 --> 02:36:04,960
Speaker 1: he built these little wooden speakers. He got to speak

2438
02:36:05,000 --> 02:36:08,680
Speaker 1: assent from Germany, Grundy, he must have written away to them,

2439
02:36:09,200 --> 02:36:12,920
Speaker 1: and he built these lovely oak cabinets, and then he

2440
02:36:13,040 --> 02:36:16,920
Speaker 1: had made it himself, like all this record deck and

2441
02:36:17,040 --> 02:36:20,080
Speaker 1: put it inside this wooden thing. I didn't know what

2442
02:36:20,160 --> 02:36:21,560
Speaker 1: the hell it was. He just wouldn't let me in

2443
02:36:21,600 --> 02:36:24,520
Speaker 1: the workshow because the last time I was in there,

2444
02:36:24,600 --> 02:36:26,760
Speaker 1: I put the drill on the cat by the stake,

2445
02:36:27,320 --> 02:36:29,200
Speaker 1: and the cat was spinning around and round when he

2446
02:36:29,320 --> 02:36:32,280
Speaker 1: came in but not knowing what I was doing. But

2447
02:36:33,600 --> 02:36:37,120
Speaker 1: about eight o'clock in the morning one morning, when I

2448
02:36:37,200 --> 02:36:42,960
Speaker 1: was about five, this whole little Coronation Street type house

2449
02:36:43,160 --> 02:36:46,920
Speaker 1: just exploded with music. Because my dad had bought every

2450
02:36:47,040 --> 02:36:50,960
Speaker 1: Rogers and Hammerstein album and then he just put it on,

2451
02:36:51,560 --> 02:36:53,200
Speaker 1: and I think it was the King and I or

2452
02:36:53,280 --> 02:36:58,880
Speaker 1: something like that. And I'd never heard music loud and

2453
02:36:59,000 --> 02:37:04,480
Speaker 1: with such amazing quality, and so I had forgotten this

2454
02:37:04,600 --> 02:37:08,400
Speaker 1: for years, and then it I remembered why am I

2455
02:37:08,640 --> 02:37:12,440
Speaker 1: was singing like bits of flower drums, song and sounds

2456
02:37:12,440 --> 02:37:15,480
Speaker 1: specific and the King and I, And then I remember

2457
02:37:15,520 --> 02:37:18,000
Speaker 1: that's what it was. Every morning you would sing along

2458
02:37:18,040 --> 02:37:19,680
Speaker 1: with him and put them on. You know, we all

2459
02:37:19,760 --> 02:37:21,520
Speaker 1: that's our error. We all grew up with it. James

2460
02:37:21,600 --> 02:37:23,920
Speaker 1: Taylor has a new album. The last track is you

2461
02:37:24,000 --> 02:37:28,440
Speaker 1: know Sorry with a fringe on top. It's like our roots. Meanwhile,

2462
02:37:28,480 --> 02:37:32,280
Speaker 1: this has been wonderful, Dave. You know you're loquacious and

2463
02:37:32,520 --> 02:37:36,360
Speaker 1: very insightful. We could talk forever, but we're gonna go

2464
02:37:36,480 --> 02:37:39,160
Speaker 1: back into the rain. Great to have you here, Thanks

2465
02:37:39,200 --> 02:37:41,240
Speaker 1: for doing it. I just stole the title. If you're

2466
02:37:41,320 --> 02:37:45,959
Speaker 1: right there, Back into the rain absolutely till next time.

2467
02:37:46,040 --> 02:37:47,080
Speaker 1: This is Bob left set