1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language, along with references 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: to sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised. 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 2: Imagine if you've lived in a town of a few 4 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 2: hundred people and someone suspected in four homicides is just 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 2: sitting and smiling on their front porch. It's unreal how 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 2: intimidating that is. 7 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 1: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor 8 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas. I'm also the co host of the 9 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career, 10 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: research for my many audio and book projects has taken 11 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down 12 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers, 13 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notori is 14 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: true crime cases. This is about the choices writers make, 15 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 1: both good and bad, and it's a deep dive into 16 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:13,119 Speaker 1: the unpublished details behind their stories. Who killed eight women 17 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: in a small Louisiana town between two thousand and five 18 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: and two thousand and nine and were their murders the 19 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 1: work of a serial killer or people connected to a 20 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:27,279 Speaker 1: corrupt sheriff's department or both? This is a true life. 21 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: Southern Gothic mystery author Ethan Brown offers us the story 22 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: at the center of his book Murder in the Bayou 23 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: who killed the women known as the Jeff Davis Eight. 24 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: So let's start with how you found the story to 25 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: begin with? You are a writer in New Orleans, is 26 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: that right? 27 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 2: So the origins of this story are interesting. I moved 28 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: to New Orleans right after Katrina. Really right after Katrina. 29 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 2: Nobody was here, much of the city had still come back. 30 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 2: Moved moved here primarily because I had been coming to 31 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 2: New Orleans for many years and I had always wanted 32 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 2: to move here. And in two thousand and five, I 33 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 2: published a book with Random House about the federal money 34 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 2: laundering case against a hip hop label called Murdering that 35 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 2: had Joe Rule and Ashanti and a number of big 36 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 2: hip hop stars at the time. So that book sort 37 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: of put me in a space to where I could 38 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 2: be more freelance and interested in books. I moved to 39 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 2: New Orleans. I published a book in two thousand and 40 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 2: nine about a very notorious murder suicide case involving an 41 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 2: Iraq war veteran who survived Hurricane Katrina with his girlfriend. 42 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 2: They were on the front page of the New York Times. 43 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 2: They were in Gawker. They were like big Hurricane Katrina celebrities. 44 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 2: He murdered her, dismembered her body, and then jumped off 45 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 2: the roof of a hotel in the French Quorder. So 46 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 2: I pulled used that book in two thousand and nine. 47 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 2: And then actually at that point I was seeking to 48 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 2: leave the media business for like a bunch of complicated reasons, 49 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,839 Speaker 2: and I started working at a law office in New 50 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 2: Orleans that handled death penalty cases only I worked as 51 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 2: a fact investigator and something called a mitigation specialist, which 52 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 2: is somebody who creates very complex social histories of death 53 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 2: penalty defendants. And in twenty ten I had a case 54 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 2: in Calcashoe Parish, which is adjacent to Jeff Davis Parish. 55 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:36,119 Speaker 2: Now in Louisiana, the county system that exists everywhere else 56 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: in America is called a parish, so New Orleans is 57 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 2: actually Orleans Parish. So this case in Calcshue Parish was 58 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 2: adjacent to Jeff Davis Parish, and I was in Calctry 59 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 2: Parish quite a bit, and at the time there were 60 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 2: billboards on I ten of the Jeff Davis State the 61 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 2: women who became the Jeff Davia State and became the 62 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 2: subject of my book, and I thought it was fascinating 63 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 2: that there were these billboards up. And then in twenty ten, 64 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 2: about the same time, a reporter at the New York 65 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 2: Times named Campbell Robertson wrote a kind of introductory piece 66 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,679 Speaker 2: for the Jeff Davis Safecase for the New York Times, 67 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 2: and it was beautifully written, both in terms of reporting 68 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 2: out like what was known to date about the women, 69 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 2: but then also just as importantly kind of setting the setting, 70 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 2: so to speak, of Southwest Louisiana and Jeff Davis Parish. 71 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: And I thought, wow, like, this is amazing. This is 72 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 2: an amazing story of eight murdered women. It's an amazing 73 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 2: story of a part of Louisiana nobody really talks or 74 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 2: writes about. And then I was out there for my 75 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 2: definitely work and I was like, I'm really getting the 76 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: sort of cultural milieu out here. It's Cajun culture Southwest Louisiana, 77 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 2: Cajun culture mixed with like I ten, trucking culture mixed 78 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: with it ten drug trafficking culture mixed with rural crack 79 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 2: cocaine culture. And my first book, The one that I 80 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 2: referenced on Murder Ink. Half of that book took place 81 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,239 Speaker 2: in the crack era in New York City in the eighties, 82 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 2: and it was fascinating to me that rural white people 83 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: were sort of in the grips of a crack epidemic, 84 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 2: but so many decades later. So even though I was 85 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 2: doing definitely work at the time, I had this sort 86 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 2: of thought of, like, you know, maybe I'll return to 87 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 2: the media if there's something interesting, and this seemed to 88 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 2: me to be something that was really interesting. So in 89 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 2: the summer of twenty eleven, I had some time off 90 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 2: of work and I just said, you know, I'm just 91 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 2: going to go out to Jeftives Parish and talk to 92 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 2: people and just see what they had to say about 93 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 2: this case. Meet people. And there was no book, no article, nothing, 94 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 2: just me and like a notebook. Basically, and partly because 95 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 2: of the death only work that I've been doing where 96 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 2: investigation is really entirely door knocking, I literally just walked 97 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 2: around jeff Davis Parish and knocked on people's doors. It's 98 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: got to talk to them about the case break, specifically 99 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 2: the family members of the victims. And it was incredibly moving, 100 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,239 Speaker 2: not just because of how much the women were lobbed, 101 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 2: obviously by their families, but because they let me and 102 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 2: nobody in to their homes to have these very intimate 103 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 2: conversations about their loved ones. And then I guess the 104 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 2: last piece would be that, like, they said a lot 105 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 2: of things about the sheriff's office, the parish sheriff, that 106 00:06:55,040 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 2: were strikingly disturbing, about relationships that the women with members 107 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 2: of the sheriff's office, about misconduct by the sheriff's office, 108 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: about what people in the parish said about what the 109 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 2: sheriff's office was doing in the drug trade. So we're 110 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 2: just like, this is really fascinating. I pitched a piece 111 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 2: about the Jeff Davis c to GQ magazine. The editor 112 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,119 Speaker 2: there that I pitched immediately took it, and we worked 113 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 2: together on a long form piece about the Jeff Davis 114 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 2: sad from about two thousand and eleven to the end 115 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 2: of twenty and thirteen when he got hired by Medium 116 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 2: and he took the piece over to Medium with it. 117 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 2: I apologize for the long explanation here. It's in a 118 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 2: very long road, both the long form piece, the book 119 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 2: and the docs series. Yeah, it probably are about a 120 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 2: decade work. 121 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: So this is the story that pulled you back into 122 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: the media. Can you just tell me kind of from 123 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: the beginning with the first victim, what do we know 124 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: about what happened with her that day, and we could 125 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: move forward. 126 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: Loretta Chasson Lewis was the first victim. She was found 127 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 2: floating in a canal in Jeff Davis Parrish. There is 128 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 2: not a ton known about her in terms of her 129 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 2: whereabouts prior to her being killed. I believe in her case, 130 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 2: she was suspected of being asphyxiated and then dumped in 131 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 2: this canal. There were rumors going around. I think they 132 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 2: persist that she overdosed and was simply dumped by nervous 133 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 2: people about the overdose. I've looked at her talks in 134 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 2: autopsy and I see no evidence of that. So it 135 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 2: appears to be strangulation of some kind and then her 136 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 2: being dumped in this canal. She was found actually by 137 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 2: a fisherman who I interviewed, who talks about fishing in 138 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:57,199 Speaker 2: the canal and seeing what he thought was a mannequin 139 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 2: floating down the canal and it was Loretta. 140 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: Now let me ask you real quick, I have to 141 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: imagine that New Orleans, Louisiana in general has a history 142 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: of bodies being hidden in swamps and canals. Is it 143 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: the idea that the decomp will accelerate because of the weather, 144 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: or they'll be eaten by crabs or alligators? Is this 145 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: very common as a dumping ground. 146 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 2: That's an interesting question. You know. When I started working 147 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 2: on this, I was very friendly with a criminologist at 148 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 2: Tulane who actually is deceased as of a couple of 149 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 2: years ago. He was a very smart guy and his 150 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 2: wife is Cajun, and when I started working on this, 151 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: she said, oh, you know, in this area, when people 152 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 2: are deemed undesirables, they're killed and sort of dumped like trash. 153 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 2: And that always stayed with me. I think that sort 154 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 2: of understanding Louisiana geography. If you don't live here and 155 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 2: don't know a lot about Louisiana, New Orleans, Baton, Rouge, Shreve, Pork, 156 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 2: those are all like pretty major cities, not major in 157 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 2: the New York and Los Angeles sense, but pretty significant cities. 158 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 2: And they're not rural. So this phenomenon that you're talking 159 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 2: about of like somebody dumped in the woods or dumped 160 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 2: in the canal that's really only sort of confined to 161 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 2: an area like this, like southwest Louisiana, like rural parts 162 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 2: of the state. It's not a lot of the state. 163 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 2: It's not something you see really with any kind of 164 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 2: regularity outside of very rural parts of the state. 165 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 1: Now you write that at this time, Jennings is about 166 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: you said about ten thousand, Is that right? Not a 167 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: very big city. 168 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, it's about it's a talent of about ten 169 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 2: thousand people, and the entire parish is about thirty thousand people. 170 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: And how many people are in the sheriff's department who 171 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: would be working these kinds of cases. Gosh, I mean 172 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 1: not very many. I can't imagine. 173 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 2: Not many. So I should say a new sheriff is 174 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 2: coming into office next month, So I say this to say, 175 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 2: the person handling these cases, person singular, is going to 176 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:18,839 Speaker 2: be out his name Ramby Cormier. So you know, is 177 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 2: there some investigative muscle sort of outside of Ramby if 178 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 2: there is not much? In two thousand and nine, after 179 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 2: the last body was found, a multi agency task force 180 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 2: was created that involved state law enforcement, federal law enforcement, 181 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 2: and perish level law enforcement. Now in that moment, and 182 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 2: it was a brief moment. There was quite a bit 183 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 2: of investigative muscle on this, but that was again over 184 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 2: a decade ago, and it was a very brief period. 185 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 2: So to answer your question, like, really, there's like a 186 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: point person in the sheriff's office and then you know 187 00:11:58,040 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 2: whoever might work with him on it. 188 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: What is the general reaction as far as you know 189 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: of the discovery of this first body. You know, we 190 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: don't know if it's a serial killer or anything, because 191 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: we just have a sex worker who was also a 192 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: drug addict who's found in a canal. But this is 193 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: also a small town. So was this something that shook 194 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: the town when she was discovered? 195 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 2: Now? I think the reaction after Loreno was found was 196 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 2: fairly muted. I think it was very upsetting obviously to 197 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 2: her immediate family and social circle, but I don't think 198 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 2: it really penetrated outside of that much. I should add 199 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 2: to that that this is a perish with a long 200 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 2: history of unsolved homicides, with a long history of very 201 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 2: deep law enforcement misconduct. It's a place where, like trust, 202 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 2: it's almost nonexistent. So this happening meeting her death, you 203 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 2: could see it as like a continuation of a long pattern, 204 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 2: or you could see it as like one of many 205 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 2: bad things that happen in this place and sort of 206 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 2: almost go unnoticed, if that makes sense. 207 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: So after Loretta, how much time is there before the 208 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: second woman who we think is part of this string 209 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: of murders appears. 210 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 2: It is a matter of months. Ernestine Murray Daniels Patterson 211 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 2: is the second victim in June of two thousand and five. 212 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: Okay, same type of circumstance. What happens with Ernestine is 213 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: she in a canal. 214 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 2: Also, she is in a swamp. Basically she's stabbed to death, 215 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 2: so there's a much more clear cause of death in 216 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 2: this fun She is from a part of South Jennings 217 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 2: that is segregated, segregated within the segregation. It's an odd 218 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 2: way to phrase it, but it's like a very very small, 219 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 2: predominantly black part of South Jennings, and it's pretty rough too, 220 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 2: even for Jennings, which is a rough place. She's interesting 221 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 2: because she had been married. I think at one point 222 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 2: she was quite religious. She got lost in the crack 223 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 2: cocaine world in Jennings. I think there was a lot 224 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 2: of sadness around he in that, like she was just 225 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 2: sort of pulled away by the kind of undertow of 226 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 2: drugs and sex and Jennings and Jef Davis Parish. But again, 227 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 2: like I don't believe even after the second one, there's 228 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 2: significant panic or anything like that, because she. 229 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: Said there's been a culture of crimes happening and them 230 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: not being investigated either. It sounds like from ineptitude or 231 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: understaffing or corruption, one of the three. So it doesn't 232 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: sound like this is a surprise to anybody, that's exactly right. 233 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: So after Ernestine, who's in a swamp? I mean, just 234 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: as a side note, it sounds like it's a miracle 235 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: that anybody is found in a canal or particularly a swamp. 236 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: I would guess is this a fisherman situation with Ernestine? 237 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 2: Also, yeah, she was found by froggers. Oh, in Louisiana, 238 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 2: there's a frogging culture, meaning people out catching frogs to eat. 239 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 2: And I believe that she was found in the middle 240 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 2: of the night by a group of froggers. 241 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: How terrifying. 242 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, like really terrifying, especially given both the decomposition of 243 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 2: the body because of environmental reasons, and then like it's 244 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 2: a very gory death. It's not like being strangled to death. 245 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 2: It's very brutal stabbing to death, so very upsetting. 246 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: So after Ernestine, we have how long do you think 247 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: before the next victim comes. 248 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 2: The next victim is in two thousand and seven, about 249 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 2: a year. Yeah, there are two back to back and 250 00:15:55,760 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 2: these two raise alarms in a big way for a 251 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 2: few reasons. One they're back to back and two you 252 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 2: hit murders three d and four pretty fast. Right. So 253 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 2: the two homicides are Kristin Gary Lopez and Whitney do Wah. 254 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 2: And that's in the spring of two thousand and seven. 255 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: What's the span between the two of them? 256 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 2: Very close, really a matter of weeks. Kristin Gary Lopez 257 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 2: and Whitney do Wall both who were murdered in the 258 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 2: spring of two thousand and five. Their murders are really 259 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 2: weeks apart. And both of these women are connected very 260 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 2: closely to Frankie Richard. He was not just a pimp. 261 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 2: He was a very big drug dealer. He was very 262 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 2: savvy about his relationship with law enforcement. He like traded 263 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 2: information to them to get out of trouble. His family 264 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 2: had a long history in the area, which is a 265 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 2: big deal in the small. 266 00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: Town Okay, so they are found and this causes panic 267 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: because you said they're close together. But these are still 268 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: sex workers from South Jennings. So who is panicking besides 269 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: their families? Is it everybody or is it particularly the 270 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: people in South Jennings who are sort of racing themselves. 271 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 2: The people who are panicking are still at this point 272 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 2: largely confined South Jennings. Even with three and four, the 273 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 2: Tower and the parish as a whole can say, oh, 274 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 2: you know, sex workers or people with substance abuse problems, 275 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 2: you know, not us. I think there's a lot of 276 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 2: fear in South Jennings. And then very briefly, there's an 277 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 2: attempt to bring homicide charges in Kristin Gary Lopez's case 278 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 2: against Frankie Rashard and his goddaughter. Those charges go nowhere, 279 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 2: and Frankie Rashard is back in South Jennings, like almost instantaneously, 280 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 2: And this feeds into what I was saying earlier about 281 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 2: this guy in Unity. It's like, oh, we have four 282 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 2: homicides now a seemingly good case against Rashard because they 283 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 2: had a witness in Kristin Gary Lopez, a first hand 284 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 2: witness who described Frankie murdering her so you have these 285 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 2: four cases. You have like seemingly good case in the 286 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 2: third one, christ Gary Lopez, and then suspect is just 287 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 2: back in South Jennings. Frankie has started at a family home. 288 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 2: It's still there, I believe, in South Jennings, and he 289 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 2: would sit on the front porch of the family home. 290 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 2: If you can imagine, like imagine yourself living in a 291 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 2: town of ten thousand people, but South Jennings is even 292 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 2: a smaller part of that ten thousand, right, Imagine if 293 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 2: you lived in a town of a few hundred people 294 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 2: and someone suspected in four homicides is just sitting and 295 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 2: smiling on their front porch. You know, it's just unreal 296 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 2: how intimidating that is. And I think at that point 297 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 2: and murders three and four, it's like whatever's doing this, 298 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 2: it's getting away with it, right because there's no prosecutions 299 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 2: in any of these cases, and whoever's doing this is 300 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 2: like really comfortable in their position. I'm not worried about anything. 301 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 2: So like, what is going to happen next? 302 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: What is the witness saying before we talk about why 303 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: this didn't go forward, what is the witness saying led 304 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: to Kristen's murder, what was happening between Kristin and Frankie 305 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: that night. 306 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 2: So the witness in the case gives this incredibly detailed 307 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 2: story about doing drugs with Frankie Richard and Kristin Gary Lopez, 308 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 2: and that there was some kind of dispute happening between 309 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 2: Kristin and Frankie over drugs. There's some kind of dispute 310 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 2: happening between Kristin and Frankie over like Frankie forcing Kristen 311 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 2: to perform oral sex on him. There is a description 312 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 2: of a fight. This is where it gets difficult, sort 313 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 2: of conflicting descriptions about the death. A version of events 314 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 2: that has Kristen being held under water and drowned, I think, 315 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 2: another version that has her being strangled to death, and 316 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 2: this group are kind of on the outskirts of Jennings 317 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 2: where Kristen's body was found when all this goes down 318 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 2: in a truck. It's a compelling witness account with a 319 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 2: lot of details, but it has a lack of clarity 320 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 2: in pieces, particularly around the murder itself, and it's being 321 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 2: told by somebody who is doing crack cocaine with the 322 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 2: principles in the case and then I think at one 323 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 2: point she says, you know, oh, I gobbled like a 324 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 2: handful of xanax after this happened, because I was like 325 00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 2: so panic stricken, I couldn't even function. So this person's 326 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 2: extremely impaired. Who's giving this statement? You know? Again, all 327 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 2: that said, though, it's a pretty compelling firsthand statement. You know, 328 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 2: it puts Frankie where he needs to be put in 329 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 2: terms of the homicide, and there's a motive and sort 330 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 2: of all the elements. Again, nonetheless, like the case against 331 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 2: him fizzles, and I believe it fizzles even before it 332 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 2: goes to the DA's office. They're like arrests, warrants or 333 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 2: affidavits drawn up and then quickly withdraw So there's not 334 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 2: even a prosecution or even an attempted prosecution in this case. 335 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 1: Just out of curiosity. Did they find water in her lungs? 336 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 2: There was like light mixed drug intoxication. The manner of 337 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 2: death is undetermined, The cause of death is undetermined. There 338 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 2: is extensive damage from what they call marine artifacts. 339 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: She was chewed on. 340 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 2: She was chewed on because she was in not a 341 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 2: swamp like Earnesty, but a very a marshy kind of area, 342 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 2: and so you know, I don't believe there's any kind 343 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 2: of notation about water and the lungs or anything like that. 344 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: And it might have been she might have been so 345 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 1: decomposed or the lungs were so damaged that I was 346 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: just curious because you said drowning and it's like, well, 347 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: that's easy to kind of corrobrate exactly right, But I mean, 348 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: you know, that totally depends on the on the body. 349 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: So we're halfway through, We've had the murders of four women. 350 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,959 Speaker 1: Are we pretty convinced by body four that Frankie is 351 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: responsible for all four of these women? 352 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 2: I would say he's responsible for two, which would be 353 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 2: Kristen Garry Lopez and Winnie du Wah victims three and four. Okay, 354 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 2: I think it's pretty safe to say that. And Yeah, 355 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 2: to your question, what attention is happening at this point, 356 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 2: you know, not a lot. There's a reporter at the 357 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 2: local newspaper named Scott Lewis who is trying to cover 358 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:59,199 Speaker 2: these cases but has like extremely limited resources, you know, 359 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 2: because this time any paper. And then there's also like 360 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 2: a lot of fear and pushback and whatnot to do 361 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 2: his job because it's a small town. It's a small paper. 362 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 2: The sheriff back then was a guy named Ricky Edwards. 363 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 2: He had been sheriff forever. I believe he comes into 364 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 2: office in the early nineties, so you're talking about like 365 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 2: twenty years. Basically, Louisiana sheriffs are kings. This is true. 366 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 2: I think it's in some respects in other states because 367 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 2: the sheriff's system is not like the police chief system. 368 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 2: Police chiefs are appointed by mayors, right, so like Eric 369 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 2: Adams in New York appoints his police chief and whatnot. 370 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 2: Sheriffs are elected and there's really no accountability mechanism at 371 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 2: all for sheriffs. So saying I'd like to say, like, 372 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 2: this is a sheriff who'd been in office a very 373 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 2: long time, and he had also, by the way, endured 374 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 2: a scandal in the mid to late nineties where Dateline NBC, 375 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 2: of all things, came down to Jeff Davis Parish. It's 376 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 2: truly remarkable you think about it, because Dateline is this 377 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 2: huge national show. What would they care about what's going 378 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 2: on in Jeff Davis Parish. They came down to Jeff 379 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 2: Davis Parish to expose basically Shareff's deputies framing people in 380 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 2: various kinds of cases on the interstate. So he has 381 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 2: survived like incredible national attention from that scandal, and so 382 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 2: there was definitely a feeling that, like, he can survive anything. 383 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 2: So Scott Lewis, the Jennings Daily News reporter, is kind 384 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 2: of working under those circumstances, and he's, you know, doing 385 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 2: a decent job. And I think, you know, he's talked 386 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,479 Speaker 2: to me about this and talked in the doc about it, 387 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 2: Like I think a lot of what he was doing 388 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 2: was just trying to get people to care at all 389 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 2: about this, Like, you know, you're on homicide number four 390 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 2: in a town of ten thousand people, Like that's incredibly alarming. Yeah, 391 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 2: and yet nobody seems to care outside of the familial 392 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 2: and social circle of these women. And so I think 393 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 2: like Scott's job was, like, how do I get people 394 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 2: to even care about this? Not even so much like 395 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 2: how do I do like any kind of real hoarding it, 396 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 2: I get people to care. So I don't believe there's 397 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 2: really any national attention on whatsoever at that point in 398 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 2: O seven, it's just Scott Lewis. 399 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: Really before we talk about the second half of the women, 400 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: are you thinking with these first four women, I know 401 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: two we're connecting to Frankie Rochard. But for all four 402 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: of these, the inaction from the Sheriff's Department or the 403 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: DA whoever is really going to be the one that 404 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: would take the mantle and investigate this. Is this malfiss 405 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 1: Is this nefarious? Is this you know, maybe deputies are 406 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: the ones who killed these first two women? Or is 407 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,120 Speaker 1: this simply we don't give a shit about sex worker 408 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: and people from South Jennings. Which is it? Do you think? 409 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,439 Speaker 2: I mean, I think everything you're saying feeds into this, 410 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 2: meaning that it's like malfeasance, corruption, lack of care, you know, 411 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 2: the malfeasance part of this is to simplify it prittly 412 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 2: on three and four. In two thousand and seven, again 413 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 2: Kristin and Whitney. So at the end of two thousand 414 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 2: and seven, a couple of witnesses come forward to the 415 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 2: Jennings Police Department, not the Sheriff's office, and they say 416 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 2: that Frankie Rashard and Warren Gary, who was a high 417 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:44,160 Speaker 2: ranking member of the Sheriff's office, our best friends, and 418 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 2: that Warren Gary helped Frankie dispose of evidence that was 419 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 2: in the truck where Kristin was killed, and that Warren 420 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 2: Gary disposes of the evidence and that actually sells the 421 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 2: truck afterward, and Gary actually gets in trouble with the 422 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 2: state Ethics Board for the sale of this truck. So 423 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 2: it's not some fantastical story that someone sort of dreamed up. 424 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 2: It's like a very real thing, unfortunately. And so when 425 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,919 Speaker 2: these witnesses go to the the Jennings Police about this, 426 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 2: some recordings are taken of their witness statements. The police 427 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,719 Speaker 2: officer is a very small police department, so like if 428 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 2: you imagine the parish sheriff's office is being much larger 429 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 2: because it's you know, representing a paish of thirty thousand people, right, 430 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 2: the police department's only representing a little tiny town of 431 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 2: ten thousand people. So Jenny's police is tiny. The police 432 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 2: officer took these statements is like completely freaked out, I 433 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 2: don't know how else to put it, because he has, 434 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 2: you know, potential evidence of like astonishing high level cover 435 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 2: up of a homicide involving someone at the sheriff's office 436 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 2: who's the high ranking member up there, and he's, you know, 437 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 2: what to do. He hands the recordings over to a 438 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 2: local private investigator. He's so concerned. Now, it's sort of 439 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 2: an odd choice. The private investigator then takes the recordings 440 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 2: to the FBI office, which is in Lake Charles, Louisiana, 441 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 2: an adjacent Kalkashite Parish. Instead of really anything happening as 442 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 2: a result of those interviews, an investigation is initiated into 443 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,640 Speaker 2: the police officer who took the statement. 444 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: That's what you get. 445 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the Louisiana State Police are actually involved in 446 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 2: this investigation. And this guy's in big trouble. I believe. 447 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 2: It's called some kind of public records related offense. 448 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure, giving it to a civilian. I mean 449 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: he turned over records, official owned records by the police 450 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: department to a civilian, you know, private detective. 451 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a public record statute, I think, and 452 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 2: then also some kind of malfeasance in office statue. 453 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. 454 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 2: He was in pretty significant trouble. This is being reported 455 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 2: on in the local media, so people are looking at 456 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 2: this and they're saying, Okay, nothing happening in these four 457 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 2: homicide cases. Victim number three, Kristin Gary Lopez, has a suspect, 458 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 2: Frankie Richard. That person's just returned to the streets. He's free. 459 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 2: Now we learn that two witnesses came forward to the 460 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 2: Jennings police gave statements, and nothing is happening related to 461 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 2: the statements. But what is happening is the person who 462 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 2: took the statements, the officer took the statements, is being 463 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 2: criminally investigated. So what's going on here? My goodness, this 464 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 2: is like the malfeasans piece of it, which involves the 465 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 2: evidence in the truck, which involves criminally investigating an officer 466 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 2: who took these statements, implicating someone in the sheriff's office. 467 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 2: Like this is now kind of the overhang of this 468 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 2: entire case in the parish. You really can't think about 469 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 2: it without thinking about those things. 470 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: We have four women left in this string between two 471 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: thousand and seven now and two thousand and nine. Can 472 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: you kind of give me an overview of what happens after? 473 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: So the last victim that we've talked about is Whitney, 474 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: and who comes after Whitney and what is her story? 475 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 2: Laconia Brown comes after Whitney in two thousand and eight, 476 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 2: So there's a bit of a lag here between murders, 477 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 2: and that's actually, you know what it's about a year lag. 478 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 2: Laconia Brown is found in May of two thousand and eight. 479 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 2: She is a black woman like Ernestine Patterson, and I 480 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 2: had mentioned this earlier. The two black women were stabbed 481 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 2: a death. So Conia Brown is brutally stabbed to death 482 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 2: and left on a rural dirt road in South Jennings, 483 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 2: a very strange part of town but used to have 484 00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 2: like a police shooting range. And it's weird. It's like 485 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 2: it's a long rural road and when you ride on 486 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 2: the road, you can feel like you're fifty miles from anything. 487 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 2: But actually if you come back towards town, which is 488 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 2: the south side of town, you're back into town within 489 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 2: like two minutes, so that makes sense. It's odd. It 490 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 2: almost throws off your perception where you feel like when 491 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 2: you go down the road, you're like, wow, I am 492 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 2: I miles and miles from anything, but in actuality you're 493 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 2: only like a few miles from from South Jennings. So 494 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 2: she's she's murdered and dumped out there on the throne 495 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 2: in South Jennings. She had like a very extensive reputation 496 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 2: in South Jennings. Is kind of like a Swiss army 497 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 2: knife hustler, okay, meaning and I don't say this in 498 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 2: a derogatory way, like and this is an odd way 499 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 2: to put it, but it's kind of the only way 500 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 2: that I can put it. Like, there's a there's a 501 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 2: player on the New Orleans Saints who gets referred to 502 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 2: as as a Swiss army knife, meaning that he could 503 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 2: do like eighty different things, and Laconia Brown is sort 504 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 2: of the Swiss Army Knife of the of the underworld. Jennings. Wow, 505 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 2: she was like a drug dealer, sex worker. She would 506 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 2: this is very ugly. Men would pay her to set 507 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 2: up women so that they could rape them. Oh gosh, 508 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 2: really dark, stuck. I'm not sort of telling tales like 509 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 2: these are things that you see when you read police 510 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 2: reports about her and like her case files and stuff. 511 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 2: It's like really rough stuff. So I think that even 512 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 2: though she's victim number five, this is someone who's like 513 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 2: incredibly well known in the underworld in Jennings. So there's 514 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 2: almost like, again, we're still not waking people up about this, 515 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 2: you know what I mean, even on five and maybe 516 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 2: you know again, like I hope that no one listening 517 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 2: to the things that I'm saying, Like, you know, she 518 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 2: had it coming or like to what happens when you 519 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 2: do so, and so it's not that at all. It's 520 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 2: like it's almost like Laconia Brown being so well known 521 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 2: in the underworld is like another way to be like, Okay, 522 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 2: you know this is sad, but like this is what happens. 523 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: Right, It's not gonna affect me because I don't do 524 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: stuff like that exactly. 525 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 2: So that and again that one's in May of eight, 526 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 2: which is about a year after. 527 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: Who comes after Laconia. 528 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 2: So this is an interesting one. So after Laconia is 529 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 2: Crystal Sha benoit Zeno. She is found in a wooded 530 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 2: area on September eleventh, two thousand and eight, and she 531 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 2: had been missing for weeks at that point. So her 532 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 2: body was so decomposed to the point that one of 533 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 2: the people who found her described to this like finding 534 00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 2: animal bones. Does that make sense? Yeah, And I believe 535 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 2: in her case because of a decomp like there's an 536 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 2: undetermined cause of death. Bristol had like very significant mental 537 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 2: health issues. I believe she was bipolar and was sort 538 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 2: of like floating around between like her mom's house and 539 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 2: other places. She was a bit older, I think than 540 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 2: the other women she was in her mid twenties, and 541 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 2: she also was close with Frankie Richard. And later on 542 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,760 Speaker 2: it will come out that a man who was smoking 543 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 2: crack in the woods near where her body was found 544 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 2: saw a group of men leaving the crime scene soon 545 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 2: after she was murdered. This man not only saw this 546 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 2: group of men, he identified by name a number of 547 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 2: people in the group I believe, went to law enforcement 548 00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 2: about it, and then sometime later was run over by 549 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 2: a train and law enforcement said that he laid on 550 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 2: the train cracks to commit suicide, and his sister, who 551 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 2: I knew really well, says that he was actually placed 552 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 2: there with. 553 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: Those are not stories that go on the Jennings Tourist 554 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: board website, certainly. I mean, my goodness, Okay, we've got 555 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: two left after Crystal. So Crystal's in, you said September 556 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: of two thousand and eight, and we go to two 557 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,919 Speaker 1: thousand and nine. Who were the last two or who's 558 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 1: the next one after Crystal? 559 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 2: So we're actually still in two thousand and eight. Brittany 560 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 2: Gary is a really young woman who's found in like 561 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 2: I believe, King Fields out on the outskirts of Jennings. 562 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 2: Another one with a lot of decomposition. She'd been lost 563 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 2: for a while and there was actually a search party 564 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,360 Speaker 2: for her that ends with her body being found. It 565 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 2: was also close with Frankie Richard. Her mother was very 566 00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 2: close with Frankie, and leave that in her case as well. 567 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 2: There's a lack of determination of the cause of death 568 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 2: just because she'd been out for soil. Yeah, And then 569 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 2: finally and she is found like in the fall of 570 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 2: two thousand and eight, November fifteen, two thousand and eight, 571 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 2: sorry to be specific. Then the last murder is the 572 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 2: summer of two thousand and nine, and it's interesting because 573 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,720 Speaker 2: this is the only one where the body is found 574 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 2: not in jeff Davis Parish. Her name is Nicole Gillery. 575 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 2: She is found in neighboring Acadia Parish by it tent. 576 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 2: It's interesting because it tent is extremely well traveled in 577 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 2: this area. This is like how you can get to Houston. 578 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,720 Speaker 2: So she's found in August of two thousand and nine, 579 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 2: and she, sort of like Laconia Brown, is very well 580 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:01,240 Speaker 2: known in the Jennings underworld. But then there's this other 581 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:07,360 Speaker 2: piece about Nicole that's really interesting, which is, like a 582 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 2: lot of these women, she was in trouble lot and 583 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 2: was in the parish jail lot. But Nicole was a 584 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 2: witness in the case that involved the DA's office, sheriff's office, 585 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 2: the FBI, and the state police. This was a case 586 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 2: in the early two thousands, not actually too far off 587 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 2: from when these homicides started in two thousand and five, 588 00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 2: where Nicole witnessed sheriff's deputies basically running a human trafficking 589 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 2: ring out of the parish jail. So it's interesting she 590 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 2: would allude to this when she spoke to her mother, like, 591 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,240 Speaker 2: you know, she would say things like I know all 592 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,840 Speaker 2: of these things about the sheriff's office, you know, or 593 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 2: like I know too much, or like I'm going to 594 00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 2: be killed because of things that I know. I think 595 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,360 Speaker 2: at one when she even hid, and I believe that 596 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 2: when she was found in August of nine, like I 597 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 2: think her mother just assumed, oh, she's hiding from the 598 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 2: sheriff's office again, she'll turn off. And so in my 599 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 2: reporting about this for the documentary, I was able to 600 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 2: actually pull the files from the Louis Naca Police, from 601 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 2: the FBI, from the DA's office, from the sheriff's office 602 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:30,320 Speaker 2: about this human trafficking ring and the extent of it 603 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 2: was absolutely extraordinary, involved many people working in the jail. 604 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:43,359 Speaker 2: Sexually assaulting and trafficking these women was not some kind 605 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 2: of outlier activity. It was the bread and butter of 606 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 2: the men who worked at this jail. And Nicole was 607 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 2: a witness to all this. And I actually have and 608 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 2: some of this is in the documentary. We obtained a 609 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 2: videotaped interview of Cole wow about all that. I believe 610 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 2: the Sheriff's off was recorded on vhs like in the 611 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 2: early two thousands. 612 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: I had actually wondered if Scott Lewis had talked to anybody, 613 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: any of the future victims about the past victims, since 614 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: they were all in the same you know, socioeconomic background, 615 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: They're all in the same area. It's not a big town, 616 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,799 Speaker 1: it's not a big area. And I just had wondered 617 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 1: if any of them had popped up and then they 618 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: turn out murdered. 619 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 2: I don't believe Scott Lewis talked to any of them, 620 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,879 Speaker 2: but I'm pretty certain that like partically in the sort 621 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 2: of like middle victims like four, five, six seven, they 622 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 2: were certainly talking about each other, you know what I mean, 623 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,760 Speaker 2: Like like there is a sense that like I'm next, 624 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 2: and even comments to that effect from the women to 625 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 2: family members and friends, like I believe that I'm going 626 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:53,360 Speaker 2: to be next. 627 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 1: That's awful. 628 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 2: So yeah, and then there was this heavy witness element, 629 00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 2: particularly you know that you see, like I mentioned Nicole Giller, 630 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 2: Kristen Gary Lopez, victim number three was also present and 631 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 2: I have the Louisiana State Police records about this. She 632 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 2: was also present at a botched drug raid where a 633 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 2: man was killed. So there's like a lot of fear happening, 634 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 2: both about their social circle being taken out one by 635 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 2: one and then also like they're witnessing a number of 636 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 2: things that are quite serious, you know, acid law enforcement, 637 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 2: this company. 638 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 1: Why do you think these stopped, you know, with Nicole, 639 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:36,600 Speaker 1: why would they stop in two thousand and nine? 640 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,760 Speaker 2: Do you think that's a great question. I mean, I 641 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 2: think they stopped for a couple of reasons. I think 642 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 2: reason one, this sounds really grim to say, is that 643 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 2: these homicides really removed a specific social group from gettings. 644 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 2: This isn't to say, you know, there's nobody left who's 645 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,759 Speaker 2: engaged in sex or has a drug problem, but it's 646 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 2: like it removed very specific group of women, like totally, 647 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 2: totally removing. So I think there's that. 648 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,040 Speaker 1: These were the only eight women who were, you know, 649 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,760 Speaker 1: with the drug trade and sex work at the same time, 650 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 1: really and jinnings and. 651 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,919 Speaker 2: No, not at all. I think I think these were 652 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 2: the eight women who were like both witnesses to law 653 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 2: enforcementness conduct and had very very close relationships with Frankie Rishard, 654 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 2: the primary suspect. So you have that, and then you 655 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 2: have like now at this point with eight, you have 656 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 2: a lot of attention, you have some national media coming in, 657 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 2: and then you have families getting very vocal and angry 658 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 2: and demanding that something bigger happened on the law enforcement side. 659 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,920 Speaker 2: And that is when the task force that I referenced 660 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:55,480 Speaker 2: earliers created. So there's this federal, state, and local task 661 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 2: force that's created in the I believe fall of two 662 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 2: thousand and a nine. 663 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 1: But you said that disappeared quickly, right, and didn't do 664 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 1: very much. 665 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 2: It didn't do very much like i've seen task force work. Product. 666 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 2: The task force created like one hundred and fifty page 667 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:17,280 Speaker 2: report that summarizes their witness interviews. There's quite a few 668 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,960 Speaker 2: witness interviews that they did. They're really roughly all around 669 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 2: the same time, if that makes sense. So they're like 670 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:27,239 Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, twenty ten, and then like, and 671 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,799 Speaker 2: this might be sort of like me thinking from my 672 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,920 Speaker 2: critical sort of brain, but like the witness interviews they 673 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,439 Speaker 2: did as memorialized in this task force report, like, they're 674 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,400 Speaker 2: very skim, now, you know, is that on purpose? Is 675 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,319 Speaker 2: it because they're bad at their job? Like, I don't know, 676 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:47,880 Speaker 2: but I do know for a fact that they're incredibly skim. 677 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,240 Speaker 2: They're just like really not good at aholl They're not helpful, 678 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:56,120 Speaker 2: people say helpful things and there's no follow up now 679 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,800 Speaker 2: And the other really striking thing about this meaning the 680 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,680 Speaker 2: task Force reporting is that over and over and over 681 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:09,759 Speaker 2: and over again, witnesses are telling the task Force, which 682 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,680 Speaker 2: again has a federal component. Hey, here are the names 683 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,320 Speaker 2: of the people in the sheriff's office who are selling drugs. 684 00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,640 Speaker 2: Here are the names of the people in the sheriff's 685 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,040 Speaker 2: office who are involved with the women. Here is a 686 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:25,400 Speaker 2: time when I saw the women getting into the car 687 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,640 Speaker 2: of the warden, the warden of the parish jail. Here's 688 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:30,239 Speaker 2: the time that I saw, you know, one of the 689 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,320 Speaker 2: women getting out of the car of the of the warden. 690 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,479 Speaker 2: So like I believe, and I know that I'm saying 691 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,720 Speaker 2: this just as Ethan Brown and not as the FEDS 692 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,719 Speaker 2: and not as the US Department of Justice. But I 693 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:50,520 Speaker 2: believe that once the task Force is taking and memorializing 694 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,799 Speaker 2: so many accounts of extraordinary law enforcement misconduct, I think 695 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 2: at that point you just sort of like stop everything 696 00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,919 Speaker 2: and turn this over to the Department of because it's 697 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 2: no longer this isn't this isn't the gilgel Beach case, 698 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 2: where it's like, I know, that's a that's a very 699 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 2: complicated case, and it's taken forever, right, But like, at 700 00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,400 Speaker 2: the end of the day, if we're to believe the 701 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 2: narrative that we have now about it, right, it involves 702 00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:24,440 Speaker 2: one man and a lot of law enforcement mistakes and 703 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:30,080 Speaker 2: in attention and turf wars right between folks. This is 704 00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:34,319 Speaker 2: something else that's just of a totally different variety, you know, 705 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,680 Speaker 2: where like what's being alleged here over and over and 706 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:42,320 Speaker 2: over again directly to the task Force is law enforcement 707 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:46,919 Speaker 2: misconduct that easily rises to the standard of federal civil 708 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,759 Speaker 2: rights violations. And I believe that, Like everybody says, oh, well, 709 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:53,919 Speaker 2: you know, the FEDS were involved in the Task Force, 710 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,319 Speaker 2: and that's correct, but it was just FBI agents sort 711 00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,279 Speaker 2: of like involved in interviewing witnesses. What I'm saying is 712 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,319 Speaker 2: something much bigger, which is like this should have gone 713 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,360 Speaker 2: to the DOJ Civil Rights Division at that point and 714 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:08,040 Speaker 2: looked at the way that the DOJ Civil Rights Division 715 00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 2: looks at police killings and other kinds of violations of 716 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,240 Speaker 2: civil rights. You know, the statute is deprivation of rights 717 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 2: under the color of WAW and I think, like, you know, 718 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,439 Speaker 2: there was such such extraordinary misconduct that that was the 719 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,719 Speaker 2: only way to handle it. And also, you know, the 720 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,759 Speaker 2: lost piece of this being like I think that there's 721 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,880 Speaker 2: a conflict element too, where like so many local law 722 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:36,359 Speaker 2: enforcement members are being implicated and wrongdoing. It's like there's 723 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,520 Speaker 2: a conflict here. Even if they're all wrong, let's say 724 00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:41,000 Speaker 2: they're all lying or they're all wrong, there's a conflict 725 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,680 Speaker 2: element here where like, you know, the Jeff Davis Pari 726 00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 2: Sheriff's Office really shouldn't be involved, like you know, so 727 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,080 Speaker 2: many people in its office are being a key in 728 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 2: this case. 729 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,719 Speaker 1: Well, last thing, I mean, do you have hope that 730 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,359 Speaker 1: these cases are going to get at least attention, maybe 731 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,840 Speaker 1: not even be solved, but can we have some hope here? 732 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:02,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, in this summer of twenty twenty, like right 733 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,600 Speaker 2: around the George Ford time, a law office in New Orleans, 734 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,879 Speaker 2: the civil rights focused law office, submitted basically a complaint 735 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,640 Speaker 2: to the DOJ about this case, a very long complaint 736 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:18,680 Speaker 2: about this case that was heavily footnoted, meaning like it 737 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,600 Speaker 2: laid out the human trafficking ring at the parish jail 738 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,480 Speaker 2: and its connection to these women and a number of 739 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:31,359 Speaker 2: really serious instances of misconduct in this investigation. Basically said, 740 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:35,040 Speaker 2: you know, the DOJ needs to step in here. Nothing's 741 00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,440 Speaker 2: happened as a result of that, as far as I know. 742 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,719 Speaker 2: I think that at one time or another FBI agent's 743 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,200 Speaker 2: sort of poke around and then leave and then you know. 744 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:48,319 Speaker 2: The hope element here is a new sheriff coming in. 745 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,560 Speaker 2: New sheriff is kind of an outsider. He beat the 746 00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:58,120 Speaker 2: incumbent Ivy Woods. He has promised to take a very 747 00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,880 Speaker 2: fresh look at all this for our fact. He's in 748 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,399 Speaker 2: very close contact with victims family members. He's in very 749 00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:09,240 Speaker 2: close contact with a family member who is very very 750 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:13,200 Speaker 2: adversarial to the sheriff's office. And that would be someone 751 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,080 Speaker 2: who if you were a sheriff, and you were like 752 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:16,960 Speaker 2: not interested in doing anything about this, you would not 753 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,160 Speaker 2: want to be in contact with and he's in close 754 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,319 Speaker 2: contact with her, okay. So yeah, and then also like 755 00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:24,920 Speaker 2: you know, I think people know this, there's no statute 756 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:29,360 Speaker 2: of limitations on homicide. These live forever, you know, there's 757 00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,839 Speaker 2: no clock that runs out on this. So that is 758 00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:33,480 Speaker 2: the hope. 759 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:35,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I think we leave on the note with 760 00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,120 Speaker 1: the victims, which is whatever these women did, however they 761 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,239 Speaker 1: conducted themselves, whatever they did for living anything. You know, 762 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:46,040 Speaker 1: some were informants, some were witnesses somewhere, women who just 763 00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,560 Speaker 1: were living their lives the best way they knew how 764 00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:52,000 Speaker 1: to have all but been forgotten because of a lot 765 00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,360 Speaker 1: of different things happening. It sounds like, and so I 766 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:59,960 Speaker 1: think your book is shining a light on a disenfranchised group. 767 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,200 Speaker 1: Not black, not white, not Hispanic or anything. It's just 768 00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:08,520 Speaker 1: these women in this parish who were suffering various ways. 769 00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,560 Speaker 1: I hope for their sakes and their family's sakes, and 770 00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,360 Speaker 1: certainly you know, I hope we get a positive update 771 00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:16,480 Speaker 1: about this with this new sheriff coming in. 772 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,799 Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, And I agree with all of that, 773 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,880 Speaker 2: and I'd like to add this is such a cliche, 774 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:24,719 Speaker 2: but like this whole investigation was a real labor of love. 775 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,520 Speaker 2: Not so much the love of investigation, though that could 776 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,319 Speaker 2: be really compelling at points, obviously, but it was much 777 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,560 Speaker 2: more like a love for the people of Jeff Davis Parish. 778 00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,759 Speaker 2: When I talked about all this really grisly stuff where 779 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,080 Speaker 2: you know, where people are like, oh, you know, you 780 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,280 Speaker 2: must think this is horrible, and this underworld stuff is horrible, 781 00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,920 Speaker 2: and the things that people sometimes did were horrible, and 782 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:50,920 Speaker 2: it's like, no, I have a real deep love for 783 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:56,080 Speaker 2: these families, the folks, and jeff Davis Parish. I couldn't 784 00:48:56,120 --> 00:49:00,360 Speaker 2: have stuck with this without that love. And I hope 785 00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:05,120 Speaker 2: that my work conveys the people like the humanity of 786 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,080 Speaker 2: these women and the humanity of this parish and these 787 00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:09,759 Speaker 2: people more than like anything else. 788 00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,200 Speaker 1: If you love historical true crime stories, check out the 789 00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 1: audio versions of my books The Ghost Club, All That 790 00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,480 Speaker 1: Is Wicked, and American Sherlock, and Don't Forget There are 791 00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:34,319 Speaker 1: twelve seasons of my historical true crime podcast, Tenfold More 792 00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:38,000 Speaker 1: Wicked right here in this podcast feed, scroll back and 793 00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,799 Speaker 1: give them a listen if you haven't already. This has 794 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,640 Speaker 1: been an Exactly Right Production. Our senior producer is Alexis 795 00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:49,520 Speaker 1: m Rosi. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. This episode 796 00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:53,120 Speaker 1: was mixed by John Bradley. Curtis heath Is our composer. 797 00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:57,840 Speaker 1: Artwork by Nick Toga. Executive produced by Georgia Hartstark, Karen 798 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:02,080 Speaker 1: Kilgarriff and Danielle Kramer Fallo. Hello Wicked Words on Instagram 799 00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:06,040 Speaker 1: at tenfold More Wicked and on Facebook at Wicked Words 800 00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:06,440 Speaker 1: Pod