Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hay Slight Changers will be back in your feed
Speaker 1: with new episodes soon, but in the meantime, I wanted
Speaker 1: to share an excerpt from an audiobook I think you
Speaker 1: might enjoy. My colleague at Pushkin, Rachel Batsman, is out
Speaker 1: with a new book called How to Trust and Be Trusted.
Speaker 1: Rachel's an Oxford University professor who studies trust. I love
Speaker 1: how Rachel thinks about trust as being the glue for
Speaker 1: human connection. In her book, she debunks all sorts of
Speaker 1: misconceptions about trust, for example, the idea that more transparency
Speaker 1: is always better, or that relying on your gut intuition
Speaker 1: is a good way to decide who or what to trust.
Speaker 1: She also gives us actionable advice on how to get
Speaker 1: better at trusting others and ourselves. The best part she
Speaker 1: talks about how getting better at trusting can help you
Speaker 1: take more risks, be less controlling, and cope better with change.
Speaker 1: My favorite lesson, and the one you're going to hear
Speaker 1: about today, is about how you can be a more
Speaker 1: trustworthy person. So here's Rachel Batsman reading from her book,
Speaker 1: How to Trust and Be Trusted.
Speaker 2: How do you get someone else to trust you? It's
Speaker 2: a big question that affects so many different areas of
Speaker 2: our lives. Here's the thing. We can't make another person
Speaker 2: trust us is ultimately not in our control. But we
Speaker 2: do have the power to make ourselves more trustworthy. I'm
Speaker 2: going to give you some tools to help you've become
Speaker 2: a more trustworthy person in ways that you might not expect,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to teach you how to earn the
Speaker 2: trust of other people. Understanding how trustworthiness works is incredibly empowering.
Speaker 2: I've witnessed just how much it can transform people's careers
Speaker 2: and relationships. We're going to begin by unpacking how trust
Speaker 2: between people really works. Over the years, I've been asked
Speaker 2: a lot of questions about trust, but the most popular
Speaker 2: question is how do I build more trust? The question
Speaker 2: in itself is revealing build more trust. When I'm teaching
Speaker 2: leaders and students, I ask them to put a coin
Speaker 2: in a jar every time the words building trust are mentioned,
Speaker 2: and it's for within a couple of hours. Let me
Speaker 2: explain why the problem with building trust is. It's a
Speaker 2: power over way of thinking about relationships, a traditional, pretty
Speaker 2: top down concept of leadership. If I tell others what
Speaker 2: to do, they will follow, but trust is earned through
Speaker 2: what's known as a power. With dynamic, you have to
Speaker 2: be trustworthy and then people decide whether to give you
Speaker 2: their trust. So the trust giver is the person with
Speaker 2: the power to decide. Try to think of trust not
Speaker 2: as a fixed thing, but more like energy, fluid and flowing,
Speaker 2: something you have to continuously earn. So let's commit right
Speaker 2: now together to making a small but important language change.
Speaker 2: I want you to replace building trust with earning trust.
Speaker 2: I know this might sound like I'm being nitpicky, but
Speaker 2: this shift in language is a key step towards other
Speaker 2: people trusting you. Let's do an exercise together. Please think
Speaker 2: of someone at work who really trusts you. You got it. Now,
Speaker 2: write down a few words that best describe why you
Speaker 2: think they trust you. I'm going to guess some of
Speaker 2: the words that might have come up. Perhaps you wrote
Speaker 2: down reliable, supportive, caring, or honest. Or perhaps you don't
Speaker 2: really know why people trust you, you just feel it.
Speaker 2: Let's meet someone who knows a thing or two about
Speaker 2: earning the trust of other people at work. In fact,
Speaker 2: they're kind of an expert, and that's because they have
Speaker 2: to earn the trust of a very distrustful group.
Speaker 3: Teenagers saw it La Radastits. They're Oregon, Illinois.
Speaker 2: Kim Radistits, or as her student's call her, Miss Rad
Speaker 2: was named the twenty twenty two Teacher of the Year
Speaker 2: in ill Illois. She has taught Spanish for sixteen years
Speaker 2: to more than a thousand high schoolers, and what she's
Speaker 2: learned is before she can begin to teach her students Spanish,
Speaker 2: she first has to earn their trust.
Speaker 3: I don't believe students really care what you know in
Speaker 3: terms of content until they feel like you care about
Speaker 3: them as humans first and that they can trust you.
Speaker 3: And in learning a foreign language in particular, like learning Spanish,
Speaker 3: they need to trust that it's okay to make mistakes
Speaker 3: and it's okay to feel silly, and that they're in
Speaker 3: a safe space, because I think that psychological safety is
Speaker 3: important when you're trying something new, especially as a fourteen
Speaker 3: year old, when you're trying to look cool in front
Speaker 3: of your friends.
Speaker 2: It's Rad gets to work on earning her students trust
Speaker 2: before they even enter the classroom.
Speaker 3: I have looked at my rosters of students that are
Speaker 3: going to be in my class this upcoming year, and
Speaker 3: I have identified students that struggled in eighth grade, and
Speaker 3: I have started to do some background research on what
Speaker 3: it was that put that student in that position. Is
Speaker 3: it a student that struggled with Homer completion, Is it
Speaker 3: a student that had adverse childhood experiences. I'm talking to
Speaker 3: their teachers from last year already to find out what
Speaker 3: kinds of things were happening with that student, because I
Speaker 3: want to make sure that every single one of my
Speaker 3: students when they walk into my room is known.
Speaker 2: On the very first day of school, ms Rad sets
Speaker 2: clear expectations about how the class will go.
Speaker 3: What I do is a lesson where I introduce myself
Speaker 3: completely and totally in Spanish. I purposely will choose vocabulary
Speaker 3: that sounds like words in English, and from there I
Speaker 3: talk to them about how with language learning, there are
Speaker 3: going to be times where they're going to have to
Speaker 3: take risks, and there are going to be times that
Speaker 3: they feel silly, but I will know ever ever put
Speaker 3: them in a situation where they're completely lost.
Speaker 2: And then she keeps working to earn her students trust.
Speaker 2: Throughout their first week. She has them fill out questionnaires
Speaker 2: about their lives and incorporates those details into her lessons,
Speaker 2: she opens up and shares personal stories about how as
Speaker 2: a child she visited Mexico, where her mother was born,
Speaker 2: but that she struggled to communicate because she wasn't fluent
Speaker 2: in Spanish. And she also praises her students at every
Speaker 2: small success, and after just five days she usually gets
Speaker 2: a sign that all that work is starting to pay off.
Speaker 2: It happens during a school sports festival called Red and
Speaker 2: White Night.
Speaker 3: I say to students, how many of you are going
Speaker 3: to be at Red and White Night? And you see
Speaker 3: all the hands go up like, oh my gosh, I'm
Speaker 3: so excited to go tonight. I said, if you see
Speaker 3: me tonight at Red and White Night, what are you
Speaker 3: going to say? And the kids, I'm like getting emotional
Speaker 3: thinking about it. They get so excited. They're like they
Speaker 3: either say, well, if we see you at the volleyball game,
Speaker 3: we're gonna say when I was side of this, But
Speaker 3: if we see you at the football game, we're gonna
Speaker 3: say when I's not just like, that's absolutely correct. When
Speaker 3: I get to the game, you see students going out
Speaker 3: of their way. It's like playing where's Waldo? But they're like,
Speaker 3: where's miss rad They're like looking for me because they
Speaker 3: want to be the first student to get to use
Speaker 3: their Spanish that night. So that's when you see, like, Okay,
Speaker 3: if they're willing to take their learning outside of the classroom,
Speaker 3: then I'm pretty sure the trust is there.
Speaker 2: How did Miss Rad un that trust? It's incredible to
Speaker 2: consider that we're never taught what makes people trustworthy. The
Speaker 2: good news is that there is a proven way to
Speaker 2: learn how to be a more trustworthy person and how
Speaker 2: to cultivate more trusting cultures. Just like Ms Rad's classroom,
Speaker 2: The answers lie in a framework known as the traits
Speaker 2: of trustworthiness. It comes from decades of social scientists studying
Speaker 2: how people make trust decisions. I've taught the traits of
Speaker 2: trustworthiness to thousands of people, from university students to CEOs
Speaker 2: of fortune five hundred companies, and now I'm going to
Speaker 2: share it with you. Here's how it works. At its
Speaker 2: highest level, trustworthiness is made up of two parts, capability
Speaker 2: and character. Capability traits are about how we do things.
Speaker 2: Character traits are about why we do things, or I
Speaker 2: like to think of it as doing things and doing
Speaker 2: the right things. On the capability side, the most important
Speaker 2: traits are competence and reliability. On the character side, the
Speaker 2: most important traits are empathy and integrity. These two characteristics
Speaker 2: influence whether people feel like you want to support them,
Speaker 2: that you're on their side. This is how we start
Speaker 2: to form deep trust. So you might be thinking, what's
Speaker 2: the right mix or balance of traits. It's a great question.
Speaker 2: This goes back to a key point from chapter one.
Speaker 2: Trust is highly contextual. So say you're trusting a surgeon
Speaker 2: to perform a heart operation, Undeniably, their competence is the
Speaker 2: most important trait. They might lack a bedside manner, but
Speaker 2: be the most experienced in skilled surgeon. If you're trusting
Speaker 2: a teacher like miss Rad to educate your kids, their
Speaker 2: competence is probably really important to you. And this is
Speaker 2: something that miss Rad has picked up on without even
Speaker 2: realizing it.
Speaker 3: When I first communicate with parents, I do low the
Speaker 3: competence route. You made me think about that, in that
Speaker 3: the very first communication that I have with parents is
Speaker 3: me flashing my I mean, truthfully, like flashing my credentials.
Speaker 3: I am a graduate of Northern Illinois University who studied
Speaker 3: Spanish language and literature, and I've visited Mexico every year you.
Speaker 2: Know, while Miss Rad ends trust from the parents by
Speaker 2: flashing her credentials, she earns trust from her students. Who's
Speaker 2: showing them she cares about them. And one way she
Speaker 2: does that is by all always wearing this apron.
Speaker 3: So I wear a waitress apron while I have a
Speaker 3: dozen of them, actually, but the signature one has lamas
Speaker 3: on it, very very fancy. But it has eight pockets,
Speaker 3: so I have lots of pencils in my apron. In
Speaker 3: addition to that, I carry sticky notes that I utilize
Speaker 3: as reminders for students, like reminders on behavior or missing assignments,
Speaker 3: but also sticky notes of praise. So if a student
Speaker 3: is shy and doesn't like it when I provide them
Speaker 3: with praise publicly, I can write hey, nice job on
Speaker 3: that and stick it on their desk. I mean, I
Speaker 3: have a spare schedule because students always ask questions about
Speaker 3: the schedules and there just little things like that.
Speaker 2: Miss Rad gets in space that trust is earned through
Speaker 2: micro moments and not grand gestures, through consistency, no intensity.
Speaker 2: She also gives her students a lot, but doesn't initially
Speaker 2: expect trust in return.
Speaker 3: I will that one thing that I have learned to
Speaker 3: never do is to make the comment I have gone
Speaker 3: above and beyond, or I have done everything, and you
Speaker 3: won't meet me halfway until wag your finger at a student,
Speaker 3: you know, because then to them, I think the message
Speaker 3: is that everything that you have done up until that
Speaker 3: point has been transactional. You've done that thing because you
Speaker 3: wanted me to do this. I don't believe that's how
Speaker 3: a good relationship should work.
Speaker 2: Our frame around trust should always be relational, not transactional.
Speaker 2: So now let's learn about each of the four traits
Speaker 2: in more detail and how you can put trustworthiness into practice.
Speaker 2: We'll start with the first trait that makes someone capable,
Speaker 2: and that's the trait of competence. Imagine you're pitching to
Speaker 2: win work from a new client. It's a job you
Speaker 2: really want. You're up against two competitors, both do exceptional work.
Speaker 2: You want to demonstrate that you can be trusted to
Speaker 2: do this job and do it really well. So how
Speaker 2: do you convey your competence to the client? I want
Speaker 2: you right now to take a moment and think about
Speaker 2: how you would do this. How would you demonstrate your competence?
Speaker 2: So what did you come up with? Well, let me
Speaker 2: share with you a couple of key things to convey
Speaker 2: when it comes to demonstrating your competence. Firstly, you have
Speaker 2: the skills, the knowledge, experience, resources, and time to do
Speaker 2: what you say you're going to do. And secondly, you
Speaker 2: are honest about what you can't do or don't know.
Speaker 2: Pretending you can do everything actually hurts trust, but humility
Speaker 2: is rocket fuel for earning trust. Highly competent people set
Speaker 2: clear expectations around what they can do and what they
Speaker 2: can't do. The same can't always be said for overly
Speaker 2: confident people. Yet so often we can flate competence with confidence.
Speaker 2: It's a trap that's so easy to fall into. The
Speaker 2: person who speaks louder, the person who speaks first, the
Speaker 2: person who seems to know everything about well everything, the
Speaker 2: person who always shouts about their achievements. As I once
Speaker 2: heard it put, some people are just more glitter than glue.
Speaker 2: So when it comes to being trusted, don't let confidence
Speaker 2: outweigh competence. Be honest about your abilities and commitments. The
Speaker 2: second key ingredient of capability is the trait of reliability.
Speaker 2: Reliability has a lot to do with our relationship to time.
Speaker 2: How responsive I'm respectful of time we are, and it's
Speaker 2: all about how consistent we are in the way we
Speaker 2: show up. Being reliable means people can depend on and
Speaker 2: ultimately trust you because they know what to expect.
Speaker 3: So I have one rule and one rule only, it's
Speaker 3: hard to screw it up.
Speaker 2: Again. Let's mis wrap the Spanish teacher.
Speaker 3: And the rule is that I have a wireless doorbell
Speaker 3: in my classroom, and the students know that when I
Speaker 3: ring the bell, they have to stop whatever it is
Speaker 3: they're doing, whether it be a game, whether I'm having
Speaker 3: a conversation, if they're up out of their chairs, they
Speaker 3: have to stop what they're doing, and they need to
Speaker 3: listen for directions. And by having that one rule and
Speaker 3: one rule only, students aren't confused as to what the
Speaker 3: rule is. I make sure to practice the rule throughout
Speaker 3: the week to reinforce when they get the rule correct.
Speaker 3: But I'm really able to use that bell to redirect
Speaker 3: any other kind of negative behaviors that might be happening
Speaker 3: in my class, and it really just takes that one.
Speaker 2: Ms Rad's one rule is an example of the power
Speaker 2: of consistency. Consistency is the stabilizing force that enables people
Speaker 2: to read your reliability. It allows people to know where
Speaker 2: they stand and what they can expect from you. So
Speaker 2: let's try a quick exercise to reflect on your own
Speaker 2: reliability at work. Now, I'm going to ask you five questions,
Speaker 2: and I want you to rate yourself one to five
Speaker 2: on each one being needs work and five being stell up.
Speaker 2: Now be honest. If you've got a pencil, then grab
Speaker 2: it and write your numbers down as we go along.
Speaker 2: Question one, how often do you reschedule meetings at short notice?
Speaker 2: Question two? Do you consistently show up on time? Question three?
Speaker 2: Do you run calls and meetings within the time set?
Speaker 2: Question four? Are you responsive to people within a time
Speaker 2: frame they expect and find me? Question five? Are you
Speaker 2: consistent in your mood, energy, and behavior and how you
Speaker 2: sharp at work? As I'm asking these questions, you might
Speaker 2: be thinking, Hmmm, I do often move meetings at the
Speaker 2: last minute. Hmmm, I do always find myself always running
Speaker 2: just a few minutes late, or I find it really
Speaker 2: hard to respond to everyone's request on time. Don't worry.
Speaker 2: People tend to describe themselves as a late or always
Speaker 2: on time person, But reliability is ann inherently tied to
Speaker 2: your personality. It's a skill. When we look at reliability
Speaker 2: through this lens, it's something you can work on and improve. Now,
Speaker 2: this next part may seem a bit scary, but it
Speaker 2: can really help. I encourage you to ask your colleagues
Speaker 2: the same five questions and for them to rate you.
Speaker 2: The revealing thing is not the total score, but if
Speaker 2: there is a gap between how reliable you think you
Speaker 2: are and how reliable others think you are, remember this
Speaker 2: is something you can work on. Even if the gap
Speaker 2: is big, you can work towards closing it, and that
Speaker 2: will only earn you more trust. So let's do a
Speaker 2: quick recap on the capability side of being trustworthy. To
Speaker 2: become more trusted around your capability or how you do things,
Speaker 2: it's important to demonstrate both competence and reliability. First, be
Speaker 2: clear about what you can and can't do. It's closely
Speaker 2: tides being realistic about the commitments and promises you make. Second,
Speaker 2: be responsive and respectful of time. And finally, be clear
Speaker 2: and consistent with your expectations. This can be as simple
Speaker 2: as letting people know when you respond to an email
Speaker 2: and when you won't miss rad is a master of
Speaker 2: expectation setting with her one rule. Now to the other
Speaker 2: side of trustworthiness. These are the character traits of empathy
Speaker 2: and integrity. Learning how to put empathy into practice can
Speaker 2: be hard, but it's key to earning trust at a
Speaker 2: much deeper level. Now, something that often confuses people about
Speaker 2: empathy is this idea that we should put ourselves in
Speaker 2: someone else's shoes. I get it. Is it really possible
Speaker 2: to relate to the lives and the diverse experiences of
Speaker 2: everyone you work with? I've also heard from managers and
Speaker 2: leaders that they struggle with empathy along similar lines. Everyone
Speaker 2: keeps telling me I need to be a more empathetic person,
Speaker 2: But how can I truly know how someone is feeling?
Speaker 2: Or I just don't have the time to listen to
Speaker 2: people's problems. Saying I feel for you can be comforting
Speaker 2: to hear, but what comes after that? Let's reframe empathy
Speaker 2: as being curious as to how you can best support someone.
Speaker 2: A simple but significant shift is to move from the
Speaker 2: language of feeling to the language of acts. How you
Speaker 2: feeling or are you okay? Becomes how can I help you?
Speaker 2: I know it sounds basic, but it works. Wonders for
Speaker 2: earning trust in the workplace. MS rad has always been
Speaker 2: an empathetic person, but there was one student who really
Speaker 2: helped her learn how to better practice empathy.
Speaker 3: I met a young man at freshman orientation who told
Speaker 3: me that night that he hated school, there was nothing
Speaker 3: that I could do about it, and that he wasn't
Speaker 3: going to learn any expletive word Spanish. And what I
Speaker 3: learned was that this young man suffered from a lot
Speaker 3: of advers childhood experiences. He had a parent that was incarcerated,
Speaker 3: his grandparents had fostered him, and his grandfather had died
Speaker 3: the year before I met him, and so this young
Speaker 3: man was just really angry, and he was in a
Speaker 3: really bad place, to the point where there was a
Speaker 3: the school district was considering perhaps putting him in an
Speaker 3: alternative placement, And as a young teacher, I decided that
Speaker 3: I was going to do everything in my power to
Speaker 3: prove him wrong.
Speaker 2: Instead of waiting for him to trust her.
Speaker 3: I showed him that I trusted him, And I think
Speaker 3: that part was huge. I think that he just had
Speaker 3: this assumption that adults didn't like him and that adults
Speaker 3: didn't trust him, and so I actually put him in
Speaker 3: a couple of leadership roles throughout the school year, and
Speaker 3: that's a little bit of success that I don't think
Speaker 3: he experienced in any other content areas.
Speaker 2: And just like miss Rad learned from the student, the
Speaker 2: student eventually learned from miss Rat.
Speaker 3: He ended up finishing Spanish one, even though he said
Speaker 3: he wouldn't learn it. He took Spanish two his choice.
Speaker 3: He graduated high school in four years despite concerns that
Speaker 3: he wouldn't. And now he's doing really really well in
Speaker 3: our community, and I still hear from him. We've known
Speaker 3: each other for eleven years. I still hear from him
Speaker 3: at least once a month. So I think the trust
Speaker 3: is there, to say the least, because he doesn't have
Speaker 3: to talk to me anymore now that he's not in
Speaker 3: my classroom, but he chooses to.
Speaker 2: Miss Rad had to give him trust.
Speaker 3: To earn the trust, you have to show them that
Speaker 3: you trust them before they give you their trust. So
Speaker 3: it's a leap of faith. I mean it is in
Speaker 3: his case. It was a leap of faith for me.
Speaker 3: But I believed that he could be a better version
Speaker 3: of himself that he had than he had showed other people,
Speaker 3: because I saw glimpses of it throughout the year, and
Speaker 3: so I just trusted that we would get.
Speaker 2: There miss Rad's curiosity about how she could really support hers.
Speaker 2: You created what's known as a trust loop. You show
Speaker 2: your trust to someone who finds it hard to trust back,
Speaker 2: and you don't expect anything in return. But over time
Speaker 2: and they do start to trust you, you recognize it
Speaker 2: and reciprocate by showing more trust, and so a powerful
Speaker 2: and beautiful trust loop forms. Okay, and now for the
Speaker 2: final trait of trustworthiness. It's a big one. Integrity. It's
Speaker 2: hard to forgive or forget decisions that lack integrity. It
Speaker 2: doesn't matter whether you're leading a small team, a big team,
Speaker 2: a sports team, at school team, or an entire country.
Speaker 2: Everything starts and ends with integrity. Ultimately, practicing integrity comes
Speaker 2: down to one word alignment. Doctor Zeus summed up integrity
Speaker 2: well when he wrote, I meant what I said and
Speaker 2: said what I meant. So let's reflect on a few
Speaker 2: ways integrity is put into practice at work. Do you
Speaker 2: always do what you say you're going to do? Do
Speaker 2: your values align with how you live your life? Do
Speaker 2: you keep the promises that you make? And the big one,
Speaker 2: are you honest about your intentions and interests with your
Speaker 2: clients and colleagues. These questions are a powerful compass for
Speaker 2: deciding what to do, but more importantly, what not to do.
Speaker 2: Decisions around what not to do can take courage, but
Speaker 2: they are critical to earning trust. Consider an employee who
Speaker 2: stands up and says, we should not work with that client,
Speaker 2: no matter how much they're going to pay us, because
Speaker 2: our values just don't align. When you think of times
Speaker 2: when trust has broken down, it's most lead you to
Speaker 2: some kind of misalignment of intentions. On the flip side,
Speaker 2: if you have an alignment of intentions and interests, that's
Speaker 2: when deep trust forms. In the end. Miss rad is
Speaker 2: such a great teacher because her students understand that she
Speaker 2: is on their side.
Speaker 3: When you feel known and you feel veiled, you take
Speaker 3: pride in your work and you want to you're motivated
Speaker 3: to do the work and to do the work well.
Speaker 3: And I think that's what happens in my classroom is
Speaker 3: that my students know that I'm endlessly rooting for them,
Speaker 3: and as a result, they're kind of They're not kind of,
Speaker 3: they are they're taking ownership of their own learning so
Speaker 3: that they can show it off and that we can
Speaker 3: celebrate that together, and that's a beautiful thing when you
Speaker 3: can get to that point.
Speaker 2: In other words, Ms Rad's intentions are beautifully aligned with
Speaker 2: the best interests of her students. Ultimately, earning trust is
Speaker 2: at how we interact and behave with people over time.
Speaker 2: Are we able to clearly communicate our capabilities? Can we
Speaker 2: demonstrate our character? Do the people we work with and
Speaker 2: for know what to expect of us? The traits of trustworthiness,
Speaker 2: I promise will help you earn trust with all different
Speaker 2: kinds of people. So let's recap what we've covered. First,
Speaker 2: think about the context. There's that word again, context. What
Speaker 2: is the most important trait I should be demonstrating and
Speaker 2: leading with in this particular context. Second, it can be
Speaker 2: easy to conflate competence with confidence. To avoid this, make
Speaker 2: sure you're clear about what you can and can't do. Third,
Speaker 2: being reliable is a stabilizing force in any relationship. How
Speaker 2: clearly and consistently do you convey your expectations? What's your
Speaker 2: equivalent of Miss Rad's bell or even her apron. Fourth,
Speaker 2: if you're struggling with empathy, I'd recommend changing your frame.
Speaker 2: Think of empathy as being curious and make it action orientated.
Speaker 2: Instead of asking how are you feeling? Ask how can
Speaker 2: I help? And finally, when practicing integrity, keep one word
Speaker 2: in your mind alignment. Are my interests really aligned with
Speaker 2: the other person? And if they're not, should I be
Speaker 2: taking this action or making this decision? Now? I'd love
Speaker 2: for you to identify one thing, just one thing to
Speaker 2: put into practice or to do differently to be more trustworthy.
Speaker 2: And let me leave you with one question as we
Speaker 2: head into the next chapter. Can you think of a
Speaker 2: time when you've had your trust broken?
Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed that lesson from how to trust
Speaker 1: and be trusted. You can find the audiobook at pushkin
Speaker 1: dot Fm, slash Audiobooks, Audible, or wherever you get your audiobooks.
Speaker 1: We'll be back with another episode of A Slight Change
Speaker 1: of Plans on February twenty fourth. Until then, thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: A Slight Change of Plans is created, written, and executive
Speaker 1: produced by me Maya Schunker. The Slight Change family includes
Speaker 1: our showrunner Tyler Green, our senior editor Kate Parkinson Morgan,
Speaker 1: our producers Britney Cronin and Megan Luvin, and our sound
Speaker 1: engineer Erica Huang, Louis Scara wrote our delightful theme song
Speaker 1: and Ginger Smith helped arrange the vocals. A Slight Change
Speaker 1: of Plans is a production of Pushkin Industries, so big
Speaker 1: thanks to everyone there, and of course a very special
Speaker 1: thanks to Jimmy Lee
Speaker 3: Do Will de