Speaker 1: We know ADHD doesn't just affect boys. We know ADHD
Speaker 1: doesn't just affect children. We know ADHD is so much
Speaker 1: more than just focus. Instead of looking at it as
Speaker 1: a personality flaw, this is looking at it as a
Speaker 1: neurological phenomenon.
Speaker 2: Doctor Sasha Hamdani is a board certified psychiatrist and ADHD
Speaker 2: clinical specialist. She's known for breaking down ADHD in a
Speaker 2: way that's relatable, science back and so easy to understand.
Speaker 2: She shares practical tools for managing focus, emotional regulation, and
Speaker 2: daily life with ADHD. How does emotional regulation differ in ADHD?
Speaker 1: How much time do you have? So? ADHD is broken
Speaker 1: into three different types. There is inattentive, hyperactive, and then
Speaker 1: combined type, which is a combination of the two. In general,
Speaker 1: females typically present as inattentive, and typically males it's more
Speaker 1: of this hyperactive or combined type presentation. Instead of constantly
Speaker 1: turning it inwards and having to carry it and have
Speaker 1: it be like this huge burden, you can start to
Speaker 1: reframe it and start to work with it and it
Speaker 1: can be an incredible strength.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Really Good Cry podcast. A Really Good Cry
Speaker 2: is here to help you understand your body, feel confident
Speaker 2: in your skin, manage your emotions, and take back control
Speaker 2: of your health. Because growth doesn't always start with answers.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it starts with a really good cry. Sasha, thank
Speaker 2: you so much for being here. I actually such a
Speaker 2: huge fan. I've been a binge watching your content on
Speaker 2: Instagram and I just want to say that you are
Speaker 2: someone who articulates yourself so beautifully, and you've really helped
Speaker 2: me to understand my mind so much better and feel
Speaker 2: so much more comfortable about who I am with my ADHD. So,
Speaker 2: first of all, thank you, and I'm so happy to
Speaker 2: tease your brain. This is basically a personal podcast for me.
Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah, I'm here for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So let's get into it. I want to
Speaker 2: start off by just asking you, because we hear the
Speaker 2: word ADHD all the time. It's thrown around left, right,
Speaker 2: and center. But can you explain to us in a
Speaker 2: simple wint what is adhd.
Speaker 1: ADHD at its base is a neurobiological condition, a neurodevelopmental condition,
Speaker 1: which means it came on from birth and it's kind
Speaker 1: of been progressing through. That's what it is in the
Speaker 1: conventional diagnostic criteria. But to me it feels more like
Speaker 1: a regulation issue. It's a regulation issue with attention, with emotions,
Speaker 1: with energy, with sleep, with appetite. It kind of touches everything.
Speaker 2: Can it also be triggered like later on in life
Speaker 2: or is it something that if you're born with it,
Speaker 2: you just have it?
Speaker 1: So what the science shows right now is a huge
Speaker 1: proportion of that is genetic. Now, what you see a
Speaker 1: lot of times is that people have it but it
Speaker 1: becomes unmasked later in life by something bigger, like a
Speaker 1: hormonal shift can happen and then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: things get really bad. So it might be that you've
Speaker 1: had it this whole time, but there's certain events in
Speaker 1: life that exacerbate it. You can have that with hormonal shifts,
Speaker 1: you can have it with trauma, you can have it
Speaker 1: with underlying psychiatric things. You can have it with stress.
Speaker 1: So there are things that bring it to the forefront
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 2: Okay, but generally you'd say that genetically, you've already kind
Speaker 2: of got the gene for as it runs in. What
Speaker 2: do you think is the biggest misconception that people have
Speaker 2: around ADHD?
Speaker 1: So I think one of the biggest ones is that
Speaker 1: it only happens in males. People think, like for a
Speaker 1: long even when I was trained in medical school, it
Speaker 1: was kind of ADHD was considered something that hyper young
Speaker 1: boys have. It doesn't show up in adults. It doesn't
Speaker 1: show up in females, absolutely not. And so a lot
Speaker 1: of times it just, you know, as medicine progressed and
Speaker 1: as you go through training and you see, like practitioners
Speaker 1: were like, you know, it'll go away in adulthood, so
Speaker 1: we don't need to do anything with it, And that
Speaker 1: has kind of been something that people have had to
Speaker 1: pull apart and dismantle because it's so obvious that it
Speaker 1: persists in adulthood.
Speaker 2: Is there a difference in the type of symptoms I
Speaker 2: don't call that, but the type of characteristics that you
Speaker 2: have when you're a child with ADHD versus an adult.
Speaker 1: Yes. I think a lot of times more of those
Speaker 1: hyperactive symptoms, like the physical impulsivity and the verbal impulsivity.
Speaker 1: A lot of times that goes and you see more
Speaker 1: of the inattentive symptoms. I don't think necessarily that they
Speaker 1: go away, though. I think you just you just get
Speaker 1: good at hiding them. You know.
Speaker 2: One thing I always struggled with was this idea of
Speaker 2: differentiating between being someone who's distracted or undisciplined versus someone
Speaker 2: with ADHD. How can you differentiate between the two And
Speaker 2: is it possible for someone with ADHD to be those
Speaker 2: things disciplined and focused and attentive. Yes, yeah, yes.
Speaker 1: I think what's difficult is that, you know, when you
Speaker 1: look at characteristics of adh and this is why it's
Speaker 1: so important to if possible, get a diagnosis from someone
Speaker 1: who is a medical professional who can tease this apart.
Speaker 1: Is everybody deals with distractability, everybody deals with issues with
Speaker 1: maintaining focus. Those are things that are part of the
Speaker 1: human conditions, especially since the invention of a phone like
Speaker 1: this is something that we see all the time. But
Speaker 1: with ADHD, it is more persistent, it is more disordered
Speaker 1: in that it's harder to get from point A to
Speaker 1: point B, so much so that it becomes debilitating to
Speaker 1: the person at times. For people with ADHD, you can
Speaker 1: also see incredible amounts of focus. You can see incredible
Speaker 1: amounts of discipline, especially if that's something new to their
Speaker 1: nervous system or interesting, and that's you know, people describe
Speaker 1: that as hyper focus, where it's almost like it's the
Speaker 1: opposite problem where it's you're not distractable or having difficulty engaging,
Speaker 1: you're overly engaged. Now it's hard to pull you out
Speaker 1: of it. And that's part of why I'm saying for
Speaker 1: a lot of ADHD, it seems like a regulation issue.
Speaker 2: One of the main symptoms that you notice in people
Speaker 2: with add like, what are the typical ones that you
Speaker 2: see coming into the room.
Speaker 1: So ADHD is broken into three different types. There is inattentive, hyperactive,
Speaker 1: and then combined type, which is a combination of the two.
Speaker 1: So inattentive is like think about it, like the day dreamers.
Speaker 1: So difficulty starting tests, difficulty I'm staying engaged in tasks,
Speaker 1: difficulty completing task difficulty was forgetfulness difficult in general with
Speaker 1: maintaining attention and focus. When you have the hyperactive side
Speaker 1: of things, you're looking more at the physical and verbal impulsivity.
Speaker 1: So these are the people that are constantly fidgeting or
Speaker 1: have difficulty staying still in their chair. You know, their
Speaker 1: brain is moving so fast that they're blurting out things,
Speaker 1: or they're having difficulty participating in the conversation. And then
Speaker 1: combined type is obviously a combination of the two, So
Speaker 1: you can see differences in all of those presentations. But
Speaker 1: I would say that in general, females typically present as
Speaker 1: inattentive and typically males when they present it's more of
Speaker 1: this hyperactive or combined type presentation.
Speaker 2: And are they different ways to manage both of those?
Speaker 2: Like do you have different recommendations for the person who
Speaker 2: can't complete things versus the person who's overactive.
Speaker 1: Rather than being broken down into type, it's so individualized
Speaker 1: for the person, Like you really have to have a
Speaker 1: good understanding of like you know when you treat a
Speaker 1: a lot of people. This is another misconception. A lot
Speaker 1: of people think that the answer is always medication. Yes,
Speaker 1: if you have ADHD, you have to be on medication,
Speaker 1: which isn't true. Like, if you have ADHD, there's a
Speaker 1: huge part of it that if you understand how your
Speaker 1: brain works and you are lucky enough to be able
Speaker 1: to optimize your environment, you're gonna have a much better
Speaker 1: time at managing it without medication. Now, there's some people
Speaker 1: that do need medication, And I have been in a
Speaker 1: place where I have needed medication. For med school, for sure,
Speaker 1: I needed medication. So there are people that fall into
Speaker 1: different needs based on their symptoms and based on where
Speaker 1: they are in life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for me, I noticed that I had all these
Speaker 2: things which the things that you mentioned, like I wasn't
Speaker 2: able to complete things. I was struggling to stay disciplined.
Speaker 2: My focus would be there for things I'm really excited about,
Speaker 2: and then dwindled with things that I had absolutely no
Speaker 2: interest in. But one thing, and I didn't really know
Speaker 2: I had ADHD at the time, or hadn't really put
Speaker 2: a name to it. But what it pushed me to
Speaker 2: do was try and create more structure in my life.
Speaker 2: Like I felt like I was thinking of it as
Speaker 2: each individual issue. So Okay, if I'm struggling to stay discipline,
Speaker 2: what does that mean? That means I need to create
Speaker 2: more structure in my life to be able to at
Speaker 2: least have a guide of where I'm supposed to be
Speaker 2: going in the day, because otherwise, if I'm going from
Speaker 2: thing to thing to think, I my mind won't even
Speaker 2: know where the direction, what direction I'm supposed to be
Speaker 2: going in. And so structure made sense for the discipline,
Speaker 2: having like specific core things in my day that were
Speaker 2: anchors that really helped. So, Okay, I'm going to be
Speaker 2: having breakfast at this time, I'm going to be having
Speaker 2: lunch at this time, you know, whether it's around meals,
Speaker 2: whether it's around workouts. Having those core things in my
Speaker 2: day really helped me. And then understanding the fact that
Speaker 2: my mind, you know, in conversation and even when I'm
Speaker 2: doing things, will go from thing to thing to thing
Speaker 2: to things, and then I'll forget to go back to
Speaker 2: the first thing. So now it's the idea of like, Okay,
Speaker 2: let me complete this one thing, then move on to
Speaker 2: the next. And if I do move on, let me
Speaker 2: write it down just to remind myself of what I
Speaker 2: need to go back to. And so I completely agree.
Speaker 2: I think when you when you understand it able to
Speaker 2: create systems. Yeah, you might not feel like you're the
Speaker 2: most optimized person in that area, but I don't think
Speaker 2: it necessarily has to be seen as something that is
Speaker 2: holding you back. But I think ADHD has aided my
Speaker 2: creativity so much, Yeah, because it's allowed my mind to
Speaker 2: wonder and think in ways that I maybe wouldn't have
Speaker 2: if I didn't have it, if my brain didn't go
Speaker 2: from one thing to another to another. Yeah, And so
Speaker 2: I wonder you know, your advice to people who feel
Speaker 2: like these these parts of them are holding them back,
Speaker 2: or that they hear that they've got ADHD and they think,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, like this is awful. Does that mean
Speaker 2: I'm just stuck with this for life?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: What would you say to someone who feels that way,
Speaker 2: because it can be quite disheartening.
Speaker 1: I completely agree, and I completely agree, and I've personally
Speaker 1: felt that way, and I think it I think what
Speaker 1: is such a nice thing about ADG is that it
Speaker 1: does come with positives. I think, you know, I've heard
Speaker 1: a lot about people calling ADG is superpower and being
Speaker 1: able to like really harness it, and I like, I
Speaker 1: understand the theory behind it and reframing it as this
Speaker 1: incredible thing, and I think there are incredible attributes of it.
Speaker 1: To me, that felt a little bit disheartening because I'm like,
Speaker 1: there are times where it definitely doesn't feel like a
Speaker 1: superpower to me, and so I feel like that was
Speaker 1: a little bit limiting. And so where I got to
Speaker 1: is I think viewing ADHD in more of a realistic view,
Speaker 1: like their positives and their negatives, and it's just how
Speaker 1: what you make of it. And I think one of
Speaker 1: the most exciting things about ADHD is that your brain
Speaker 1: is so adaptable and open to change, and so like
Speaker 1: I think that people with ADHD are naturally more inclined
Speaker 1: to be creative and think out of the box, and
Speaker 1: so there is incredible opportunity to use these things. But
Speaker 1: sometimes in looking at some of those things that you
Speaker 1: viewed as negatives, by just finding ways to have again
Speaker 1: that flexible structure, you can really optimize and so that
Speaker 1: you can really lean into those things that you enjoy
Speaker 1: and get a lot of value from that.
Speaker 2: You will keep mentioning that you see ADHD as a
Speaker 2: regulation issue, What do you mean by that? Could you
Speaker 2: expand on it a little bit?
Speaker 1: So I think that looking at ADHD just as an
Speaker 1: attention or a focus problem is way too narrow, because
Speaker 1: I think anybody who has it or think they have it,
Speaker 1: I think they can immediately tell you, like, that's not
Speaker 1: all there is for me. Like for me, I felt like,
Speaker 1: especially in twenty twenty four, my dad passed and thank you,
Speaker 1: but it's like my entire brain and world fell apart,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I know that this is grief.
Speaker 1: I know that there is a part of it, But
Speaker 1: like I think, because every single day I'm kind of
Speaker 1: working on building that kind of scaffolding for myself to
Speaker 1: get through the day. When I am dealing with something
Speaker 1: as huge as like that emotional cascade that was happening,
Speaker 1: that's the thing that takes me out. So I think
Speaker 1: that with a regulation issue, you're looking at all of
Speaker 1: the parts of ADC. You're not just looking at the
Speaker 1: regulation issues when it comes to attention and focus, but
Speaker 1: you're looking at how it relates to emotion, and you're
Speaker 1: looking how it released to sleep, and you're looking a
Speaker 1: how it released energy and appetite. And I think that
Speaker 1: when people start because I think that's a huge, huge
Speaker 1: limitation with the DSM. How we diagnose it right now,
Speaker 1: it's just so narrow and so you miss it. And
Speaker 1: you know who we miss it in is women. Yeah,
Speaker 1: with un the case, we miss it in women. So
Speaker 1: these women are going to get misdiagnosed with anxiety and
Speaker 1: depression and bipolar and borderline and that's going to continue
Speaker 1: on till the end of time unless we just change it.
Speaker 2: Do you think people need to get a formal diagnosis
Speaker 2: or do you think from specific symptoms they can really
Speaker 2: know whether they have or whether they've got it or not.
Speaker 1: So with this answer. I think it is tricky because
Speaker 1: you first have to understand like what a barrier there
Speaker 1: is in terms of acts us in care, Like it's
Speaker 1: so hard to get a good diagnosis, and I don't
Speaker 1: think that there has been a stream flined way of
Speaker 1: doing that so far, and that's another huge, huge issue.
Speaker 1: But I think that a formal diagnosis is really really
Speaker 1: important for many reasons. But one of them is I
Speaker 1: think it's hard. I think when you're looking at things
Speaker 1: like on social media, Like I've had patients come to
Speaker 1: me and they're like, I really think I have ADHD,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, why do you think that? Yeah, And
Speaker 1: they said, well, I saw this one video, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: show it to me, show me the video, and then
Speaker 1: we go through that and we talk about and I
Speaker 1: think that there's incredible value in looking at like for
Speaker 1: social media. That's part of the reason why I'm on
Speaker 1: social media is because I want to provide information and
Speaker 1: help people explain their own internal environment. So I think
Speaker 1: there's value in that. But then of those people that
Speaker 1: come into my office, they show me that video, I
Speaker 1: think I have ADHD. We go through the symptoms, we
Speaker 1: go through all of the remaining symptoms of ADHD. But
Speaker 1: then we screen for thyroid disorder, or we screen for PTSD,
Speaker 1: or we scream for like just I you know, just
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, I had someone that I screamed
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you are anemic, that's what's scarsing this. Oh,
Speaker 1: So like you know, you get, you get all of
Speaker 1: these different pieces of information, And I think it's important
Speaker 1: to have someone who cannot only look at the ADHD
Speaker 1: symptoms and rule them in, but rule out all the
Speaker 1: other things that could be playing a role.
Speaker 2: That's so true because so many of the symptoms are
Speaker 2: things that could be from nutrient deficiencies like you said,
Speaker 2: or maybe I was just exhausted and you have been
Speaker 2: sleeping really well, and so yeah, you're forgetting a few things,
Speaker 2: or you're not able to concentrate. I mean I literally
Speaker 2: just had a late night the other day. I was
Speaker 2: out way later than I normally am, and the next
Speaker 2: day I felt like I had a sleep hangover. I
Speaker 2: was not able to concentrate. No, and I'm I don't
Speaker 2: think it's my ADAD. I'm pretty sure this is the sleep. Yeah,
Speaker 2: But it's so true. Foggy mind can come from so
Speaker 2: many different things totally. I'd love to get into some
Speaker 2: of the typical characteristics that I feel I have but
Speaker 2: I've heard that are part of ADHD. The first one
Speaker 2: is time blindness or time perception. Yes, tell me a
Speaker 2: little bit about that, because I used to think I
Speaker 2: was just a really late person. But actually, when I
Speaker 2: heard this, I felt so understood, because I honestly believe,
Speaker 2: genuinely believe, when I'm about to leave for someone, I
Speaker 2: have enough time to finish a whole other project, and
Speaker 2: I am fully ready, I'm like ready in my clothes.
Speaker 2: I'm in fact, I'm early. And then my mind says, no,
Speaker 2: you've got time to write another podcast episode, and I
Speaker 2: absolutely don't, but my mind will tell me I do,
Speaker 2: and then somehow I'm just late again, and then three
Speaker 2: hours go by. Yeah, so please explain this to me.
Speaker 1: I think time blindness is it's like a convergence of
Speaker 1: lots of different things happening. I think one of them
Speaker 1: is that, you know, with fluctuating focus and things like that,
Speaker 1: it's really easy to lose track of time because you
Speaker 1: don't have a normal litmss of what time should feel like.
Speaker 1: When you're interested in something, three hours can feel like
Speaker 1: one minute, and when you're bored with something, one minute
Speaker 1: can feel like three hours. So it just it's almost
Speaker 1: like this interest based nervous system. Your nervous system figures
Speaker 1: out and attributes time to certain things, which is not
Speaker 1: like a sixty seconds is one minute. So the way
Speaker 1: you appreciate time is really dependent on how interested you
Speaker 1: are in the thing. So that is part of time
Speaker 1: blindness as a whole. And that's why you know, you know,
Speaker 1: looking at having reminders for me, And this is outrageous
Speaker 1: that I do this because I only discover this after
Speaker 1: having kids, But I like visually looking at time passing,
Speaker 1: Like I have timers that are like a certain amount
Speaker 1: of time passes that I can like see it on
Speaker 1: the clock. I don't have to calculate and look at math.
Speaker 1: I can like see how much time is passing. That's
Speaker 1: all very helpful for me because keeps me, keeps me
Speaker 1: looking and viewing time appropriately.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which I also think is why schedules and alarms
Speaker 2: can help to My sister has like an alarm for
Speaker 2: everything every hour. What is this alarm for? But it
Speaker 2: just helps her to keep track of time, which is
Speaker 2: if you struggle with keeping to time tracking your time
Speaker 2: makes sense. Yes, Yeah, it seems so simple, doesn't it,
Speaker 2: But like, in my mind, it's not simple.
Speaker 1: Well it's not simple also because I'm notorious for like
Speaker 1: snoozing alarms. Yeah, like if it's a reminder, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm in the middle of something. I'll deal with this
Speaker 1: two minutes and then it's go on.
Speaker 2: It's also overriding that thought now when my mind says no,
Speaker 2: you could probably leave twenty minutes later. Like I'm the
Speaker 2: person who gets to the airport where they're like, sorry,
Speaker 2: we can't check your luggage. You can go, but your
Speaker 2: luggage can't go. You've passed the deadline. But I leave
Speaker 2: thinking nony of time. But I think now overriding that thought,
Speaker 2: saying oh, you've got time, And I'm like, no, you
Speaker 2: know what, just in case, just in case, let me
Speaker 2: just leave now. I'll do this the other end, but
Speaker 2: let me just override that thought. And I've done that
Speaker 2: a few times and it's really helped. And you know,
Speaker 2: I used to struggle because my friends used to see
Speaker 2: me being late as a lack of value for their time,
Speaker 2: and I really felt upset with them because I was like, no,
Speaker 2: I value your time, so much. It's actually not me thinking,
Speaker 2: oh they weren't mine. That's not That's not why I'm
Speaker 2: not showing up on time. And so I really made
Speaker 2: it a priority to try and value what they value
Speaker 2: by showing up on time. But definitely took a lot
Speaker 2: together there.
Speaker 1: I So sometimes what I do, like for example, the
Speaker 1: example you gave about the podcast, sometimes I call it
Speaker 1: a dopamine delay, Like I will have to bargain and
Speaker 1: talk to myself about like I now I should leave now,
Speaker 1: but I really want to do this one thing, So
Speaker 1: I'm going to delay that dopamine release and pick another time.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, if I get to the airport, I
Speaker 1: will do it. Then I will like that'll be my reward.
Speaker 1: And so it kind of gives me a little bit
Speaker 1: of like, Okay, there's something to look.
Speaker 2: Forward to, Bill Sweet when you get there. Could you
Speaker 2: you mentioned dopamine. Could you tell us the relationship between
Speaker 2: dopamine and ADHD.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is looking at a super oversimplified view
Speaker 1: of it, but basically, if you're looking at things that
Speaker 1: you're the ADHD brain kind of is and I can't
Speaker 1: even say deficient it dysregulated in dopamine and ourepin effort
Speaker 1: are two big ones. Basically, with dopamine, it's not so
Speaker 1: much that you don't have it, it's just not in
Speaker 1: the right place at the right time. Interesting, so you
Speaker 1: can have so a lot of times when people are
Speaker 1: like I checked my dopamine levels, I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: even know how you did that. They were like peened
Speaker 1: into a cop and I was like, I don't know
Speaker 1: what that's telling you, because it's not telling me. If
Speaker 1: that small amount of dopamine, if it's present at the
Speaker 1: right place at the right time, you're not going to
Speaker 1: have any sort of dysfunction with it. So like looking
Speaker 1: at levels and things like that, it's not telling me anything.
Speaker 1: So that's that's kind of the relationship.
Speaker 2: And so there's this sum of a deficiency of dopamine
Speaker 2: and then is it missed? How you know you mentioned
Speaker 2: you were delaying your dopamine feeling. How do people with
Speaker 2: ADHD late to certain tasks in that way? Could you
Speaker 2: explain that?
Speaker 1: So dopamine everybody thinks it's like the feel good chemical,
Speaker 1: but it's also in terms of like how I classify
Speaker 1: it is more for attention reward. So if you are
Speaker 1: doing something that aligns in both ways. Like you know
Speaker 1: it's going to be personally rewarding, so you're like, I'm
Speaker 1: into this, this is great and it can gather your attention.
Speaker 1: That's when you're getting this flooding of kind of dopamine. Okay,
Speaker 1: and so tasks that are new or urgent or exciting,
Speaker 1: those are all things that to me are setting off
Speaker 1: that dopamine cascade, and you're really able to attend to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's so if I'm halfway through something that I've
Speaker 2: been doing for a couple of days and then I
Speaker 2: get any money to start something, I'm like, oh, I
Speaker 2: definitely want to do that part us. Yes, yeah, I'll
Speaker 2: get back to this one day. But this seems really fun,
Speaker 2: like a bit of a change or a shift something
Speaker 2: I find really helps me when I I'm struggling with
Speaker 2: those switches, especially during the day. The later the day goes,
Speaker 2: the more distracted I kind of feel. And I've got
Speaker 2: this new habit, well not new, I've been doing it
Speaker 2: for about a year now. I just jump on the
Speaker 2: treadmill and I walk while I work. I don't know
Speaker 2: whether you could explain this, but for me, when I'm
Speaker 2: moving my body while I'm working. I am so much
Speaker 2: more focused, attentive and efficient in the way that I'm like,
Speaker 2: I get so much more done when I'm walking and
Speaker 2: working in that one and a half hours that I'm
Speaker 2: walking while I'm typing away. But I am so focused,
Speaker 2: And I was wondering whether is there a relationship between
Speaker 2: my body somewhat being distracted while it reminds me kind
Speaker 2: of those fidget I was gonna say, are you a
Speaker 2: figital I definitely struggle to sit so like, if you're
Speaker 2: watching something, I'll probably get up like three four times. Actually,
Speaker 2: now that you mentioned it, I won't just like wear
Speaker 2: you're oh I need to go do this or I
Speaker 2: need to go grab this or yeah, am I a figitor? Yeah,
Speaker 2: probably don't sit still much.
Speaker 1: You're right, So I think that there is when you
Speaker 1: look at ADHD again, this comes back to the regulation thing.
Speaker 1: You how you're regulating movement and energy, and so with ADHG,
Speaker 1: a lot of people describe restlessness, and it doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: need to be. It can be physical where it's like
Speaker 1: hard to stay still. It can also be mental, but
Speaker 1: there's something about moving that body which is incredibly I
Speaker 1: don't even want to say distracting to the body, but
Speaker 1: it is. It just calms and regulates so that your
Speaker 1: brain can do what it's supposed to do.
Speaker 2: Especially when it's a monotonous movement like walking. It's the
Speaker 2: same rhythm. So for some reason, that seems to take
Speaker 2: away whatever else my mind is thinking about and allows
Speaker 2: me to focus. It reminded me of you know, when
Speaker 2: people are watching TV. Nowadays, we end up scrolling while
Speaker 2: we're watching TV, like we're doing multiple things. Do you
Speaker 2: think there's an element of everyone, you know, I imagine there's
Speaker 2: a spectrum of being on having ADHD. Do you think
Speaker 2: everyone because of what you mentioned earlier, because of screens
Speaker 2: and social media, do we all kind of have attention deficit?
Speaker 1: Our attention spans have decreased, for sure. I think that
Speaker 1: that's just But I don't even necessarily attribute that to screens.
Speaker 1: I think our world is just busier. There's a lot
Speaker 1: more happening, there's a lot more expected of us, and
Speaker 1: we're we're just you know, and I think that our
Speaker 1: attention spans, you know, have shortened. Does that mean that
Speaker 1: people have more ADC? No? I think ADC is a
Speaker 1: genetic thing and that we're if we're seeing a spike
Speaker 1: in ADHD diagnosis. I don't think it's because of smartphones
Speaker 1: or screens or things like that. I think we're just
Speaker 1: getting talking about it more and we're better at picking
Speaker 1: it up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes it okay, good to know. I'd love
Speaker 2: to move on to the next thing, which is memory.
Speaker 2: How does memory get affected through ADHD? I've noticed it is.
Speaker 2: I struggle sometimes well a lot to remember like people's
Speaker 2: names or things that I'm told in passing, Whereas I
Speaker 2: found my husband like literally can remember every single person's name,
Speaker 2: remember what they were wearing, no matter whether it was
Speaker 2: important information or not. So is there a relationship between
Speaker 2: memory and ADHD.
Speaker 1: For an ADHG brain, so much information is being processed
Speaker 1: at once is because we don't have a great filtering system,
Speaker 1: so we are seeing instead of like I'm looking at you,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about you. I remember your name, I remember
Speaker 1: what you're wearing. Let's move on from this point. You
Speaker 1: are like, Okay, I see you, but I also see
Speaker 1: that there's a great plant behind you, and I see
Speaker 1: there's a TV in the wall, and I see that
Speaker 1: there's cords over there, and I see you're drinking tea,
Speaker 1: and I see like I'm seeing all of that stuff
Speaker 1: in my brain is like, okay, okay, all right, we're
Speaker 1: putting this all where I think it needs to go
Speaker 1: before we move on to the next thing, and so
Speaker 1: it's harder to keep all of that organized and figure
Speaker 1: it out. So it's we have difficulty with that filtering
Speaker 1: system that's happening.
Speaker 2: I find that in large social situations a lot. And
Speaker 2: now I've had to know my time limited places. So
Speaker 2: I went out to a party the other day and
Speaker 2: I knew, like, I gave myself about two hours to
Speaker 2: be out where I know I'm able to be the
Speaker 2: most attend to actually engage in good conversation before for
Speaker 2: some reason, I check out and people know when I've
Speaker 2: checked out. So I'm just I'm there, but I'm not
Speaker 2: able to just focus on the person. And I really
Speaker 2: appreciate you explaining it in that way, because that's exactly
Speaker 2: how I feel. I'm looking in I'm trying to talk
Speaker 2: to the person, but it's so loud, and I'm thinking
Speaker 2: wherever I last heard this song? And then I'm looking
Speaker 2: at her dress and sinking, oh wow, I think I
Speaker 2: have a yellow dress like that somewhere, And then I'm
Speaker 2: hearing someone else's conversation that I kind of think I
Speaker 2: need to participate in because it sounds really interesting and
Speaker 2: the ability to, like, I find it so hard to
Speaker 2: tune out my senses in especially loud, big environments with
Speaker 2: lots of people and really focus, and I think sometimes
Speaker 2: I struggle with social situations for that reason. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: it can be quite frustrating because you're like, if I
Speaker 2: stay out late, it's gonna be so fun. I'm like, no,
Speaker 2: I can see how it would be fun, but I
Speaker 2: actually don't enjoy myself after a CENTEMA term because I
Speaker 2: feel exhausted from trying staying out.
Speaker 1: Wait, that's a lie. Are these people like being at home?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, nighttime?
Speaker 2: Is that something that people that ADC struggle with social
Speaker 2: situations or is that it is?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of overstimulation that happens. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of when you go back to like the emotional
Speaker 1: dysregulation part of it, there's also a lot of back
Speaker 1: and forth that happens within conversations where you're like, am
Speaker 1: I doing something weird? Do they like me? What's happening?
Speaker 1: And then you add that extra layer to it, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it becomes very tiring.
Speaker 2: Are there any things on a daily basis that you
Speaker 2: do to help yours? What is some of your systems
Speaker 2: or tools or techniques that you found when you help.
Speaker 1: What I tell all of my patients and I tell
Speaker 1: all of my family members is like the place to
Speaker 1: start is to understand your own patterns, because I think
Speaker 1: everybody looks a little bit different and your holes are
Speaker 1: in different places, and even without knowing it, you've been
Speaker 1: working on systems your whole life. So during the COVID shutdown,
Speaker 1: I had my son in March of twenty twenty, and
Speaker 1: so I was like, basically, this has just been one
Speaker 1: long maternity leave for me. Oh never went back to normal,
Speaker 1: and so I like, during that time, my sister was
Speaker 1: like especially frustrated because she's like, you can't focus on anything.
Speaker 1: And I was like, maybe that's because I'm postpartum and
Speaker 1: I'm breastfeeding and it's that stuff. And she's like, no,
Speaker 1: we need to we need to do something. And so
Speaker 1: we started creating this app called focus Genie, and like
Speaker 1: in it, there's a focused tracker And I don't think
Speaker 1: I actually did this until I started beta testing that app,
Speaker 1: because it was like it's I mean so simple. It
Speaker 1: was just like this, this will track your sleep and
Speaker 1: to track how much water you drinking and if you
Speaker 1: ate your meals, and to how impulsive were you how
Speaker 1: much were you fidgeting? Yeah, And so then you look
Speaker 1: at that visually over time and you're like, oh, whoa
Speaker 1: that like there are certain days where it like things
Speaker 1: are really difficult for me, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I did not have a single sip of water today. Yeah,
Speaker 1: or there are days where I'm like I was looking
Speaker 1: at it and I was like, the last four days
Speaker 1: of the month are really bad for me in terms
Speaker 1: of impulsivities. And then I was like, okay, the tracks
Speaker 1: hormonally and like, so then you I started to notice.
Speaker 1: So now once I knew my patterns, I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I know those last four days of the month are
Speaker 1: going to be so bad for me. So Number one,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to mindlessly scroll because then I'm just
Speaker 1: buying a bunch of weird stuff that I don't need.
Speaker 1: I I'm not going to put anything super important, like
Speaker 1: I'm just going to frontload my important meetings and on
Speaker 1: those days are going to be more admin and easy stuff.
Speaker 1: I don't try to overbook on those days. So like
Speaker 1: number one, knowing your patterns, I think it's really helpful.
Speaker 1: Number two I think is just utilizing other brains. I
Speaker 1: think it's really important. I delegate a lot of my
Speaker 1: mental load to my husband, and my husband doesn't have ADHD,
Speaker 1: and so like, if there are things that are really
Speaker 1: difficult and really hard for me, like sometimes like taxes,
Speaker 1: I don't understand them. I don't like them, I don't
Speaker 1: scare me.
Speaker 2: And is that a DAC thing or is it just
Speaker 2: we don't like doing normal human brothers.
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's a lot of work to do
Speaker 1: before you even get into an accountant. So like there
Speaker 1: are times where I'm like just with my husband, like
Speaker 1: will you just sit with me and we can go
Speaker 1: through this together. And if I have questions and so
Speaker 1: sit with me and while I'm doing it. But like
Speaker 1: sometimes I need that. I need that extra accountability. I
Speaker 1: need to body double. I need to have someone there
Speaker 1: with me to do those tasks that I don't care about.
Speaker 2: Okay, there's some good tips there. Do simple things like sleep, nutrition, movement,
Speaker 2: Do they impact the symptoms? Yes? Okay, could you go
Speaker 2: into that?
Speaker 1: And it's with family, So there was a actually this
Speaker 1: is pretty interesting. There was a study that came out
Speaker 1: of Washiel December of twenty twenty five, so a few
Speaker 1: months ago, and they were talking about how stimulants actually work,
Speaker 1: because this whole time we just kind of have assumed
Speaker 1: like stimulants work on the focus part of your brain.
Speaker 1: That's like the depth of knowledge. Yeah we knew more,
Speaker 1: but like essentially, and now they're saying, you know what,
Speaker 1: it actually works on two different things. It works on
Speaker 1: alertness and it works on reward. And so alertness it's
Speaker 1: basically negating the effects of a sleep deficit. So if
Speaker 1: you're sleeping really poorly, the stimulant will help you feel
Speaker 1: more awake and alert, like you had a good night
Speaker 1: to sleep. And then the reward part is it'll keep
Speaker 1: you moving towards a goal, like I know this is
Speaker 1: good for me, Let me finish this goal. So in
Speaker 1: terms of that, what that study has shown me is
Speaker 1: how important sleep is, Like if that's what the stimulant
Speaker 1: is doing and really kind of aiming towards, and that
Speaker 1: is showing me how incredibly important getting good sleep is.
Speaker 1: And so sleep is so incredibly important. Diet is important.
Speaker 1: I think that it's one of those things that I'm
Speaker 1: never going to be that person who's like, you have
Speaker 1: to do exactly this diet because it's so dependent on
Speaker 1: the person fueling yourself adequately and figuring out what your
Speaker 1: windows are. Like I know, for me, I'm never going
Speaker 1: to be the person who can just have three meals
Speaker 1: a day like I'm eating throughout the day, like I'm
Speaker 1: just like grazing and eating stuff and that keeps my
Speaker 1: metabolism going so I can do these things that burn
Speaker 1: up so much oxygenated glucose in my brain to do
Speaker 1: and then exercise. Exercise is great for you. I just
Speaker 1: hate it.
Speaker 2: Is there a relationship between I remember seeing all these
Speaker 2: articles about how sugar is making ADHD and children worse.
Speaker 2: Is there a strong relationship between the two.
Speaker 1: I think that sugar is one of those things that
Speaker 1: it's neuroinflammatory like it and you, I mean, people can
Speaker 1: feel that. You know, when you are having high sugary diets,
Speaker 1: high processed foods diet, you do feel worse and you
Speaker 1: feel worse. Yeah, but that's kind of part of the
Speaker 1: culture we live in. And I'm never going to recommend
Speaker 1: a completely exclusionary diet. I think it's being mindful of
Speaker 1: how your body responds to certain things. So if you
Speaker 1: are responding to sugar and you're like, I know for
Speaker 1: a fact that I feel really foggy. And that's that's
Speaker 1: where I got to with gluten. Ye, Like I and
Speaker 1: like what my reasoning for this was. I don't I
Speaker 1: ate like a full loaf of bread one day.
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly don't need a reason for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And like I remember being so foggy. I
Speaker 1: was driving home in my husband's car and I shut
Speaker 1: the garage while opening the back of his car, and
Speaker 1: I got like pinned, and I was just sitting there
Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't even know how to
Speaker 1: fix this problem. I don't know what to lower first
Speaker 1: or do that. And I was like, I got it
Speaker 1: was a call coma.
Speaker 2: It's what I liked.
Speaker 1: It's a coma.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I have them often, and I usually have to
Speaker 2: time my cobs for the time I know I need
Speaker 2: to either walk straight after or I have plenty of
Speaker 2: time to just have a little nap while watching Great
Speaker 2: Brish Bake Off.
Speaker 1: Okay, so love that. That's my hack I should have
Speaker 1: done instead of driving a car that I had no
Speaker 1: business driting. But anyway, so once I started to move
Speaker 1: away from this extremely gluten heavy diet, I started to
Speaker 1: feel like I was a little bit more sharp in
Speaker 1: what I was doing. And then I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: and like, also, I knew it was bad for my body,
Speaker 1: but it didn't really understand until I got far enough,
Speaker 1: because I was like, I would eat bread and I
Speaker 1: would look like I was six months pregnant, and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh okay. And then once I started leaving
Speaker 1: it out of my diet, every time I had a
Speaker 1: little bit of gluten, that woul happening here, and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh okay. So I mean and it's not
Speaker 1: something that it's like an ADHD specific. This is specific
Speaker 1: to me. There are other people with AGC who do
Speaker 1: great with gluten. It's just like, you figure out what
Speaker 1: your body likes and doesn't like, and then you move
Speaker 1: on from there. So I'm never going to be the
Speaker 1: doctor who's like, cut out all sugar, cut out all dairy.
Speaker 1: Like you have to figure out what your patterns are
Speaker 1: and then go from there with relationships.
Speaker 2: And you were talking about mood regulation when it comes
Speaker 2: to as in emotions. How does emotional regulation differ in
Speaker 2: ADHD people?
Speaker 1: How much time do you have tell me everything. I
Speaker 1: think it's a huge problem because I think with emotional dysregulation,
Speaker 1: they're actual neurobiological differences, like they're parts of the brain,
Speaker 1: which are actually why you're differently. They're anatomically a different size.
Speaker 1: So the areas of your brain, the two big ones
Speaker 1: that I'm thinking about, is that the amygdala, the area
Speaker 1: of your brain that it's in charge of like threat
Speaker 1: response and fear and emotional regulation. That's bigger and more
Speaker 1: hyperactive in an ADHD brain. And then the frontal lobe
Speaker 1: directly under your forehead is in charge of judgment and
Speaker 1: processing and personality, and so that's a little bit thinner,
Speaker 1: so the connection between the two is weaker. So if
Speaker 1: you are in a situation, your emotions are going to
Speaker 1: overdrive your logical side every single time. Oh no way,
Speaker 1: every single time. So that's why I think it is
Speaker 1: such negligence that we haven't included this into the criteria,
Speaker 1: because this is what we need to be talking about,
Speaker 1: because for focus and all of those other things. I've
Speaker 1: gotten to a spot in my life where I've hacked
Speaker 1: my way around stuff and I can or I can
Speaker 1: use my husband, or I can you know, delegate that out,
Speaker 1: but I haven't. There is no system to delegate out
Speaker 1: my emotions like I need to. Like that's the thing
Speaker 1: that I have the hardest time regulating.
Speaker 2: So let's say in an argument, if someone's got ADHD
Speaker 2: with a partner who doesn't have it, how would that
Speaker 2: show up differently? What would the person that's got ADHD
Speaker 2: how would they respond? That would be different in that situation.
Speaker 1: So it could be a lot of different things. I
Speaker 1: think with emotional dysregulation, there is a concept called rejection
Speaker 1: sensitive dysphoria, and that is very real and intense emotional
Speaker 1: sometimes physical pain when you're dealing with rejection or criticism.
Speaker 1: So if you're thinking about that interpersonally and in conflict
Speaker 1: with loved ones, that's something that comes up all the time,
Speaker 1: Like when you get into a fight. Immediately, what your
Speaker 1: body is trying to do is it's trying to avoid rejection,
Speaker 1: trying to avoid criticism. And I think to some no
Speaker 1: one likes rejection or criticism. But with ADHD, almost one
Speaker 1: hundred percent of people with ADHD have RSD, and it
Speaker 1: is robust. It's that they go out of their way
Speaker 1: to avoid it or they you know, so those times
Speaker 1: you know, when people get into conflict, all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: it stops feeling like this A and B conversation and
Speaker 1: it feels like a direct harm to your self worth.
Speaker 1: You're like, this is what I'm feeling, and it feels
Speaker 1: so much deeper than what this actual conversation is about.
Speaker 2: And then for the partner, who obviously is trying to
Speaker 2: be maybe logical in the conversation, how can they help
Speaker 2: their partner or you know, what kind of tools can
Speaker 2: they use to really communicate better or efficiently with someone
Speaker 2: with ADHD.
Speaker 1: I've thought about that because I'm like, I know, I
Speaker 1: know that that's probably not easy for my husband or
Speaker 1: anybody else who I am in direct conflict with, because
Speaker 1: I know that I am sensitive to these things and
Speaker 1: my nervous system is just an overdrive during the in
Speaker 1: the context of that conversation, I feel like Number one
Speaker 1: explaining to him, like when when I actually understood this
Speaker 1: about myself and like started gathering research and building this,
Speaker 1: I was like, this is a for this is a
Speaker 1: biological phenomenon. I get feel it on myself, I see
Speaker 1: it on my patients, Like we need to learn more
Speaker 1: about this. And it was actually nice because in that
Speaker 1: research process, I brought him into it and like helping
Speaker 1: him understand but also getting his viewpoint. I'm like, is
Speaker 1: this do you feel this way? Like it is this
Speaker 1: understanding of the partner. But then also sometimes I can
Speaker 1: tell you there's some conversations I'm never gonna have face
Speaker 1: to face. I just can't do it. Like I can't
Speaker 1: like if I see if you and I are beefing
Speaker 1: and you are, I can't even do that. Look at
Speaker 1: your beautiful face and imagine beefing. But like if we
Speaker 1: were like there would be I'd have a really difficult
Speaker 1: time telling you what's going on. And so for me,
Speaker 1: like I have to write it down. Yeah, Like I
Speaker 1: want to write it down. My husband and I have
Speaker 1: an entire email file of like these things, these things
Speaker 1: that we've gone back and forth, because like that's an
Speaker 1: easier way for me because I have three or four
Speaker 1: Like the paper is safe to me, like I can
Speaker 1: or the email I can draft it over and over
Speaker 1: again until I feel like I'm saying what I'm supposed
Speaker 1: to say, because in the moment, I'm more concerned about
Speaker 1: like am I being too emotional? Am I? I'm like,
Speaker 1: your face isn't doing the right thing. I don't. I'm
Speaker 1: worried that you're not responding to what I'm saying and like,
Speaker 1: so I just I know that I need to write
Speaker 1: it down. And then what I like is that my
Speaker 1: husband will respond back via email or via text, and
Speaker 1: then I can look at that without having to worry
Speaker 1: about how are you, what is the tone you're telling
Speaker 1: it to me, or what is that I can just
Speaker 1: see words on a page.
Speaker 2: I remember when me and my husband started dating. Something
Speaker 2: that kept coming up was we'd be in conversation and
Speaker 2: he'd be talking about something. So let's say he said
Speaker 2: to me, oh, you know, we've got friends coming around
Speaker 2: later or going out for dinner. What do you think
Speaker 2: you want to eat? Or where do you think you
Speaker 2: want to go? And then my mind will say friends,
Speaker 2: and I think of another friend. I'm like, oh, my gosh,
Speaker 2: did you know that my friend? I don't know? Misha
Speaker 2: decided to and he's like, but we were just talking,
Speaker 2: Like so what was happening was I was linking things
Speaker 2: in my head. He thought I wasn't listening, but I
Speaker 2: would end up talking about something completely different in my
Speaker 2: mind it was completely related. But the track of how
Speaker 2: to get there was not clear, so I you know,
Speaker 2: if it was like a yellow jacket, I'd be like, oh,
Speaker 2: my gosh, Yellow, do you remember that song Yellow? And
Speaker 2: so what I noticed was I had to start really
Speaker 2: explaining how my mind was getting to places because it
Speaker 2: felt random to the person, but to me, it makes
Speaker 2: complete logical sense of how my mind has connected two things.
Speaker 2: So the conversation doesn't flow, but in my mind it
Speaker 2: tracks completely. And so communicating that and like explaining when
Speaker 2: he's like, oh, but are you just not listening to me?
Speaker 2: Or like have you do you not hear what I said?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, no, I did, but this happened, yeah,
Speaker 2: And I think that was really helpful, And that was
Speaker 2: helpful even with my friends or with my family for
Speaker 2: me to communicate that when we are having conversations. Another
Speaker 2: part that I want to ask is, you know, when
Speaker 2: I started doing this podcast, I used to find it
Speaker 2: really difficult not to interrupt someone because I had these
Speaker 2: thoughts and I really wanted to tell the person. And
Speaker 2: then I got feedback online from people listening and I
Speaker 2: was like, you know, what fair point, I need to
Speaker 2: stop doing that. So I've started writing my questions down.
Speaker 2: But is that something you know when it comes to
Speaker 2: data conversation And it's just myself having to actively stop
Speaker 2: myself from because if my min I was like, it's urgent,
Speaker 2: I need to tell this point. Is that just me
Speaker 2: being an impatient child? Or no, okay, great? I think
Speaker 2: that that's one of the core parts and symptomology is
Speaker 2: that verbal impulsivity. It's like I don't know how long
Speaker 2: I can hang onto this thought, so I have to
Speaker 2: get it out. I remember in med school. I remember
Speaker 2: it being so much of an issue that sometimes I
Speaker 2: would like pinch my leg to like I had a point.
Speaker 1: I just don't stop myself from saying this that I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is weird, what is happening? But like now that
Speaker 1: I've understood more and learn more, I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm trying. I'm physically trying to stop myself from interrupting,
Speaker 1: and now I just have to think of other ways
Speaker 1: and I write down quite like sometimes I'm like I'm
Speaker 1: listening to you, but I'm taking notes because I don't
Speaker 1: want to interrupt you.
Speaker 2: Are there any other like and you mentioned the app
Speaker 2: that you have, and are there any other tools either
Speaker 2: digital or physical that you recommend for people that have
Speaker 2: helped refocus or be more attentive in their workdays. You know,
Speaker 2: if they're doing a nine to five job in an office,
Speaker 2: are there certain rituals or techniques that someone can use
Speaker 2: to help refocus.
Speaker 1: So some of my favorites, and these aren't even necessarily digital,
Speaker 1: but they do have them. Like for me, one of
Speaker 1: my hardest things is just separating from my phone, right,
Speaker 1: I just like I don't like I feel like my
Speaker 1: whole world is on my phone, and so like it's
Speaker 1: really difficult for me to where is my phone? Okay,
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to pull away from that. So
Speaker 1: then you know, like really utilizing like did do not
Speaker 1: disturb and doing things And sometimes I'm like, even that's
Speaker 1: not enough for me. I have I have had to
Speaker 1: set up screen time limits for myself, Like I can't
Speaker 1: be on socials all day long because that's what it's
Speaker 1: like and it's shameful to say, but at some points
Speaker 1: in my career and like my time on social media,
Speaker 1: like I've felt like in order to understand what people
Speaker 1: want it, I need it to be chronically online. And
Speaker 1: I was like, I have to not do this because
Speaker 1: this isn't great for me because I'd see one thing
Speaker 1: that would hurt my feelings that I'd be like ruined
Speaker 1: for two days. But so I like, I've had to
Speaker 1: set screen time limits. I you know, there there's been
Speaker 1: times where I'm like even just like I need to
Speaker 1: figure out how to make my phone less enticing, And
Speaker 1: I turned it to grayscale so you can take away
Speaker 1: the collars from the icon, so less fun. It's way
Speaker 1: less fine. But then also I realized what was happening
Speaker 1: is my brain would like my thumb would automatically there
Speaker 1: would be like green logo and I was like moving
Speaker 1: the Spotify or like I would I wouldn't even think about,
Speaker 1: like I would see a rainbow square and like me
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, I'm on Instagram like I
Speaker 1: was doing stuff like just by rote memory. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: My husband recently got this thing called the brick.
Speaker 1: I don't know you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't used it yet, but it seems like
Speaker 2: a great idea because even if you lock it, it's
Speaker 2: something where you like tap your phone and then you
Speaker 2: lock it, and then if you go out, you can't
Speaker 2: unlock those apps until you get back home to that brig.
Speaker 2: And so I felt like that seems like a good
Speaker 2: one for if you want to pay more attention when
Speaker 2: you're out and about, if you want to focus, if
Speaker 2: you just want to actually be present in the moment,
Speaker 2: which often is what lacks for me during those times.
Speaker 2: Then it forces you into that. And even if you
Speaker 2: happen to take your phone out, you can't access anything
Speaker 2: except for your cause, which is great. And so I
Speaker 2: haven't tried yet, but it's definitely something I'm going to.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about medication, by the way. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I know you mentioned it earlier and you said that
Speaker 2: it's not always necessary for people to have medication. Could
Speaker 2: you tell me what some of the ADHD medication, how
Speaker 2: it actually works in the body, what it actually does
Speaker 2: to the mind.
Speaker 1: So, when you look at ADHD medication, they're two big classes.
Speaker 1: They're stimulants, which are the stuff you've heard about adderall
Speaker 1: and Riddlin and five mins right, and then they're non stimulants,
Speaker 1: and non stimulants are there's a huge class of those.
Speaker 1: They can be blood pressure medication, they could be antidepressants,
Speaker 1: they can be other things along that spectrum that also
Speaker 1: work on those same neuroreceptors. So it's highly dependent on
Speaker 1: what the person actually needs in that moment. I would
Speaker 1: say that a lot of people come to me and
Speaker 1: they're assuming because stimulants have been the gold standard for
Speaker 1: treating ADHD for so long, they assume they're going to
Speaker 1: be started on that. But truly to get better controls,
Speaker 1: sometimes we have to go to these long acting non
Speaker 1: stimulants because I know it's going to give twenty four
Speaker 1: hour control. It's going to help with things other than
Speaker 1: just focus. It's going to help with anxiety, it's to
Speaker 1: help with depression, it's gonna help with sleep. So there's
Speaker 1: It really depends on what the person needs and what
Speaker 1: stage of life they're in and what other things are
Speaker 1: going on medically, that's how you make a good decision and.
Speaker 2: Does a medication what does it do? Is is it
Speaker 2: dull things? Does it tend certain things off in the body?
Speaker 2: Does it increase or elevate different parts in your mind?
Speaker 2: Like how do some of these like the stimulants and
Speaker 2: the difference between the two. What does it switch on
Speaker 2: or switch off in the mind.
Speaker 1: There's no easy answer to that. But like if you're
Speaker 1: looking at stimulant medications per se, it's a stimulant for
Speaker 1: every part of the body. It's not specific for the brain.
Speaker 1: It's a stimulant everywhere, and that's you know, for a
Speaker 1: lot of people. I tell people that that's part of
Speaker 1: the reason why there's a risk profile with that, Like
Speaker 1: if you have a cardiac history, we need to know
Speaker 1: because it's going to speed up the heart. It's gonna
Speaker 1: spe you know, it's it's gonna make it more difficult
Speaker 1: to sleep, it's gonna So there's there's lots of things
Speaker 1: to kind of think about in that. But the way,
Speaker 1: like we talked about before, the way that these we're
Speaker 1: now finding out, it's more about kind of keeping you
Speaker 1: awake and alert and keeping you more goal directed towards
Speaker 1: reward driven behavior. So like I want to do this,
Speaker 1: this will be good for me. Let me engage, and
Speaker 1: so I don't have to get over that mountain to
Speaker 1: start a task. So that's how stimulants work. In terms
Speaker 1: of non stimulants, there's so many different kinds that it's
Speaker 1: hard to say, but I think that the way that
Speaker 1: they work is they give depending on what you're doing.
Speaker 1: Like if you're looking at some of those twenty four
Speaker 1: hour acting agents, what they're doing is they're kind of
Speaker 1: bringing up that focus baseline. You're focusing better, and then
Speaker 1: you're also getting relief in terms of like the mood perspective,
Speaker 1: so anxiety and depression and those tank your focus as well.
Speaker 1: And with the non stimulants. I always tell people, like,
Speaker 1: you know, I get the question a lot, like how
Speaker 1: do you know when you're well medicated? What? Like? When
Speaker 1: have I made it right? And I tell people, I
Speaker 1: don't want you to feel like Superman. I don't want
Speaker 1: you to feel like you took the Limitless Bill like I.
Speaker 1: I don't want that because that's not that's indicating that
Speaker 1: you know, that's not part of the human experience, so
Speaker 1: human feels like that I'm assuming. Yeah, I want to
Speaker 1: get you eighty percent of the way there. I want
Speaker 1: you to feel like you do on a good day,
Speaker 1: and whatever twenty percent is remaining, I want you to
Speaker 1: make up behaviorally, I want you to use those skills
Speaker 1: that you can, because I think that helps people stay
Speaker 1: on lower doses of medication. I think it helps remind
Speaker 1: them that their skills that we need to grow and
Speaker 1: develop and work on. And it kind of also reduces
Speaker 1: the window of over medication, so you're not having some
Speaker 1: of these side effects.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense actually, and I feel like you must.
Speaker 2: I'm sure people have to go through different versions of
Speaker 2: each medication to figure out which one's even right for them.
Speaker 2: Is there a link between ADHD and addiction?
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: The reason I ask is because in my family we
Speaker 2: have like high tendencies of both on one side. And
Speaker 2: I remember my cousin saying that she was an addict,
Speaker 2: and she was saying, Oh, I did some research, and
Speaker 2: I found out that there is this thing between like
Speaker 2: newer virgin people and addictional, like the genes that are
Speaker 2: somewhat similar between the two. So I'm just curious to
Speaker 2: know whether there is.
Speaker 1: So what we have seen again going back to the
Speaker 1: regulation issue kind of stuff with addiction, like, at a
Speaker 1: very very basic level, it is that your brain is
Speaker 1: kind of wired to gain a significant amount of reward,
Speaker 1: and while you're using a substance, or while you're using
Speaker 1: whatever you are addicted to, it is shunting out a
Speaker 1: bunch of dopamine when it's telling you like things are great.
Speaker 1: And so if you have a dopamin dysregulation issue at hand,
Speaker 1: like with ADHD, you are probably more prone to doing that.
Speaker 1: And what I will tell you, is that a lot
Speaker 1: of people with untreated, unrecognized ADHD, A lot of people
Speaker 1: are using substances just sooth and has a way to
Speaker 1: self medicate for those kind of things. So when you
Speaker 1: look at it always becomes kind of a dicey road
Speaker 1: because then you look at these medications, like with stimulants
Speaker 1: that have an addiction potential with them, you get worried
Speaker 1: about like how am I supposed to treat somebody who
Speaker 1: has a standing addiction problem with a medication that has
Speaker 1: an addiction potential, And so there's tons of other medications
Speaker 1: you can use. It's not that that's a huge misconception
Speaker 1: that if you have ADHD all you can do are stimulants.
Speaker 1: There's there is a huge world you could do Otherwise.
Speaker 2: What happens to someone who if they don't want addicts,
Speaker 2: but they're drinking alcohol regularly? Does that what effect does
Speaker 2: that have on ADHD?
Speaker 1: So if you look at the effects of alcohol, like
Speaker 1: from a neurotransmitter level, alcohol works on your GABBA receptor,
Speaker 1: which tells it's an inhibitory receptor, which tells your whole
Speaker 1: body to calm down, which makes sense when you're at
Speaker 1: weddings and things like that I understand why people drink
Speaker 1: because it's it's reducing anxiety, it's telling you to calm down.
Speaker 1: But if it's doing that to your body, you're not
Speaker 1: getting adequate stimulation to kind of be able. So if
Speaker 1: you're using a stimulant or something like that to get
Speaker 1: your brain to work and to do all of those
Speaker 1: things and to counteract some of that, you know, sleep
Speaker 1: deficit and to act towards reward, alcohol is going to
Speaker 1: directly oppose that is caffeine the same then kind of
Speaker 1: caffeine in theory, in theory helps reverse some of that
Speaker 1: sleepiness and to help with alertness. But what they've found
Speaker 1: is that how it adheres to that receptor and how
Speaker 1: transient it is, you would need massive amounts of caffeine
Speaker 1: to to treat adhd.
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, fine. So like for people having the usually
Speaker 2: if you're having a couple of cups of coffee during
Speaker 2: the day or a cup, it's.
Speaker 1: It probably helps, it probably helps to some degree. But
Speaker 1: what they've seen is like if they're doing head to
Speaker 1: head trials of like this is a stimulant, this is caffeine.
Speaker 1: Like at a certain point, if you're getting to therapeutic
Speaker 1: doses to treat ADHD, You're also going to get a
Speaker 1: lot of those negative side effects of the caffeine. You're
Speaker 1: gonna be sweating, be jittery, you're gonna be pooping like
Speaker 1: all of those things. Like you're not it's not going
Speaker 1: to be equivalent.
Speaker 2: If someone is into this as hearing it and thinking,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I think I've just realized then I
Speaker 2: might have ADHD. And what are the first steps that
Speaker 2: you recommend they do And is there anything else that
Speaker 2: you wanted to share about ADHD that you think is
Speaker 2: really important for people to know.
Speaker 1: So first steps, I mean my first steps are always
Speaker 1: like whether whether you've been formally diagnosed or not formally diagnosed,
Speaker 1: I think you need to go back and look at
Speaker 1: your patterns. I think you need to understand, like where
Speaker 1: are my deficits, where are my holes? Because then even
Speaker 1: you know, if you have a barrier to getting care
Speaker 1: and getting a formal assessment, you can figure out and
Speaker 1: behaviorally modify and I mean go on Reddit to figure
Speaker 1: out what people are doing behaviorally and like and get
Speaker 1: information about how to do that. I think when you
Speaker 1: move into the realm of actually looking for treatment and
Speaker 1: things like that, and after you've gotten your formal diagnosis,
Speaker 1: that's when you need a medical professional because they're the
Speaker 1: ones who are going to be able to look at
Speaker 1: everything in totality.
Speaker 2: Right, Okay, amazing and anything else that you'd like to
Speaker 2: share about ADHD that you think people need to know.
Speaker 1: ADHD is so much more than focus. So we just
Speaker 1: need to like, as a whole, we need to talk
Speaker 1: about ADHD in terms of like looking at it with
Speaker 1: focus and emotional regulation. Because, by the way, Europe changed
Speaker 1: their criteria in twenty nineteen to include emotional regulation. It's
Speaker 1: just the.
Speaker 2: US that's just find I'm n yeah, so we are
Speaker 2: just kind of sitting behind and I think that it's
Speaker 2: important that we're talking about it.
Speaker 1: And that's that's what my book is.
Speaker 2: About, just about to tell people about that too sensitive. Yes,
Speaker 2: out in October.
Speaker 1: It's own in August.
Speaker 2: Now, Oh so okay, someone want to be out by
Speaker 2: the time this comes out, Yeah, tell us about it.
Speaker 1: This is my baby, this I love I love her.
Speaker 2: I mean, is it taking you to write it?
Speaker 1: It's been three years of research, wow, Because there really
Speaker 1: wasn't any information about rejection sensitive dysphoria or emotional dysregulation
Speaker 1: or any you know, there were papers and they're pioneers
Speaker 1: in the space who have been doing it, but we
Speaker 1: just haven't gotten to a point where it's been talked
Speaker 1: about enough or the public is known about it. And
Speaker 1: I think one of the this is so sad, but
Speaker 1: I think it's true. I think what's psychiat well with
Speaker 1: a lot of things, but I think for psychiatry, no
Speaker 1: one changes anything unless there's a public outcry for it.
Speaker 1: I don't think people they are not compelled to change.
Speaker 1: So we know, we know ADHD doesn't just affect boys.
Speaker 1: We know ADHD doesn't just affect children. We know ADHD
Speaker 1: is so much more than just focus. So what I'm
Speaker 1: hoping that this book does is it brings us all
Speaker 1: together as like a way to change that diagne because
Speaker 1: I think it needs to It does need to happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and who's this book for me? Yeah?
Speaker 1: No, I think I started writing it when my dad
Speaker 1: was sick and I was having a really hard time
Speaker 1: with emotional regulation myself. So I think there was a
Speaker 1: lot of healing that went into writing the book and
Speaker 1: getting all of that information in one spot. But it's
Speaker 1: also for anybody independently of ADHD. I think just looking
Speaker 1: at emotional sensitivity as instead of looking at it as
Speaker 1: a personality flaw, this is looking at it as a
Speaker 1: neurological phenomenon. This is something your brain is wired. And
Speaker 1: I think once people recognize that and they can see that,
Speaker 1: you can also see that instead of constantly turning it
Speaker 1: inwards and having to carry it and have it be
Speaker 1: like this huge burden, you can start to reframe it
Speaker 1: and start to work with it and it can be
Speaker 1: an incredible strength.
Speaker 2: Amazing, Oh my gosh, so excited for you. Yeah, congratulations
Speaker 2: on the VERG. You and everyone go out and get
Speaker 2: too sensitive. It's out August, and thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Such a great conversation.
Speaker 1: I know, m hm