WEBVTT - 60,000 Headlines Show Powell's Hawkish Pivot Has Just Begun 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:10.719 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg business 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:13.960 Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:18.360 America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:22.840 tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:25.800 and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:28.080 The FED kicking off. 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:30.920 It's a two day policy and meeting tomorrow, and Bloomberg 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.280 Economics has this a really cool tool. It's called the 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:37.519 FED Sentiment Index. It's powered by natural language processing. It's 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:40.479 an algorithm based on more than sixty thousand FED headlines, 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:43.120 and it shows that back in December, power delivered a 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.879 major pivot. Okay, we knew that from just watching the 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:50.960 markets and seeing how investors have reacting. There's a catch, though. 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.760 Four months on, with demand powering ahead and inflation stuck 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:56.920 above target, Powell has been forced into a reversal. The 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:59.240 index now shows that there's more work to do to 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:03.360 bring inflation back under control. Tom Morelick is Bloomberg Economics 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:06.120 chief economist. He edited the story that's today's big take, 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:08.560 also among the most read on the Bloomberg terminal. He 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:11.720 joins us from our Washington DC Bureau. So Tom, explain 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:14.600 what exactly the FED speak tool is, tell us how 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:17.560 it works, and also how it can give us some 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:20.000 sort of preview of what we may hear from j. 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:22.360 Powell come Wednesday at the press conference. 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:27.040 Well, great to be here, Tim. So what we've done 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:33.600 is we've taken sixty thousand Bloomberg News headlines on fedspeak, 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:36.640 the things which Powell and his team on the FOMC 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:40.240 say to steer the markets on where policy is going, 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:45.800 and we've trained a natural languaging natural language processing algorithm 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:51.840 to read those headlines as hawkish, neutral, or dubvish. What 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:55.320 that means is that anytime we get a new FED headline, 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:58.920 our algorithm can read it, assign a score to it, 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:02.200 and we can tell you whether the fair is trending 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:07.120 towards cuts, towards hikes, or towards a hold at its 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:11.440 next meeting. Now the index is right now is telling 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:15.320 us something pretty interesting. It's showing that in December there 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:20.080 was a major dubvish pivot that was well timed. We 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:24.000 think it saved the US economy from a looming downturn. 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.280 But in economics, as in life, there's no such thing 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:31.359 as a free lunch, and the same impulse which propped 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:35.919 up growth is now also giving an additional impulse to inflation. 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:41.440 Our index shows that's already prompted a mini reverse pivot 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:44.799 by Powell. He's already moved back in a hawkish direction. 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:48.960 We think that pivot has further to travel, perhaps as 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:50.440 soon as this week's FOMC. 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:54.240 So, Tom, what did the natural language tool teach us 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:56.680 in December that we wouldn't have been able to figure 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:58.400 out without using the tool? 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:04.040 So that's a really great question, Emily. So let's go 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:09.400 back to a lady called Ellen Mead. Ellen Mead was 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:13.480 a senior economist at the FED left a few years 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:17.280 ago to become a professor at Duke University, and she 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:21.880 was one of the pioneers of using data science, machine learning, 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:27.399 natural language processing to understand FED communications. And what her 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:32.480 early research demonstrated is that these data science tools they 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:37.360 can reveal insights which aren't kind of visible when we're 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:41.280 just reading the headlines ourselves. And when it comes to December, 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.480 what our index is telling us is that really this 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:48.440 was a very significant pivot, one of the biggest monetary 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:52.480 policy surprises of the current cycle. What our index is 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:55.280 currently telling us based on the latest readings from April, 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:58.200 is that things have started moving back in a more 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:03.040 hawkish direction. But really they've undone only a small amount 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.760 of the stimulus that they unleashed with that December pivot. 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.240 And that's why our US team are Chief US economist 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:13.520 Anna Wong and her colleagues think that Powell has further 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:15.200 to go in a hawkish direction. 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:16.200 Hey, Tom. 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:19.760 One interesting part of the story that is included in 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:24.600 today's Big Take is this idea that well, with rays high, 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:27.920 why are we still seeing inflation high? And different theories 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.440 are put forth, and there's this theory that's gotten a 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:32.240 little bit of attention over the last month when it 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:37.000 comes to MMT and the idea that actually hikes from 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:40.719 the Fed are a growth driver rather than a drag 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:41.600 on the economy. 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:43.000 Can you talk a little bit about that. 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:49.320 Yeah, So it's an intriguing idea, Tim. Basically, it goes 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:55.320 something like this, households businesses have got so much money 0:04:56.080 --> 0:05:00.000 in savings accounts and in bonds where they're getting higher 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:03.320 returns when interest rates go up, that that's giving a 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:07.960 boost to spending power. And so perhaps FED hikes aren't 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:12.120 a drag on demand and a drag on inflation. Perhaps 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:16.640 in the current cycle they're actually a driver, boosting spending 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:20.960 power and actually keeping inflation lodged at a high level. 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:24.200 So that's an intriguing idea. It's an idea which has 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:28.320 caught the attention of the markets, including from some big 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:32.560 investors moving a huge amount of money around. Our view 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:36.080 is that it's a bit difficult to support with either 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:40.360 the economic theory or the economic data. If you think 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:44.640 about it from the theory perspective, well, actually it's not 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:49.000 too far from the view set out by Turkey's president Urduan, 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:54.600 who of course famously said rate hikes drive inflation, rate 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:58.680 cuts reduce inflation. And look what happened to Turkey, right, 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:03.200 Turkey had spiraling inflation a collapsing currency. So it doesn't 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:06.400 seem like the theory worked out very well there. And 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:09.440 then if we look at the data, well it does 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:12.599 seem to us that interest income has actually been a 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:16.960 drag on consumption this year, not a driver. So an 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:20.360 intriguing theory, one that's fired the attention of the markets, 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.039 not one which we give a huge amount of credibility to. 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.680 So what should we be looking out for on Wednesday 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:28.839 is this going to be a Powell that has to 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:32.800 kind of walk back some of that dubbishness that he 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:37.520 did present during this big December pivot that your tool 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:38.080 is showing. 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:43.400 So it's interesting, Emily, I mean, certainly we're not going 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:46.599 to hear the same kind of dubvish messages from Powell 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:51.960 that we heard in December. Already in April we heard 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:56.600 from Powell that the data wasn't giving him confidence in disinflation, 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.520 that the FED was prepared to wait with policy settings 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.480 restrictive for as long as it takes to be convinced 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:08.200 that disinflation is on track and price gains are coming 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:12.840 back to their two percent target. The question at Wednesday's 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.480 press conference is if he goes further than that and 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:20.160 perhaps hints at the world where there are no rate 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:24.560 cuts coming in twenty twenty four or maybe in a 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:29.600 risk scenario, also raises the possibility not as a base 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.400 case for the FED, but as a possibility that there 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:35.120 could be cuts hikes coming if needed. 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:38.760 Thanks to Tom Morel, like Bloomberg Economics chief economists, check 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:41.160 out today's Big Take. It's just a fantastic read. The 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:43.960 Natural Language processing tool, the FED Speak tool very cool, 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.960 stuff and a Big Take or Bloomberg dot Com slash 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:47.840 a Big Take. 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:52.280 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.520 Live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern. Listen 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:57.720 on Apple card Play and then Bright Auto with a 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:01.880 Bloomberg Business at or watch just Live on YouTube. 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.920 Okay, something really interesting is happening in the world of 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:08.400 electricity generation here in the US and the way that 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.480 people are thinking about nuclear power right now. So more 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:13.560 than a dozen US nuclear actors that have been shut 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.640 down in recent years. Maybe they were too costly to operate, 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:20.760 they were struggling to compete against renewable power, and also 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:23.880 they were struggling to compete against plants that burn cheap 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:29.440 natural gas. Conventional wisdom long held that these closures were permanent. 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:32.520 Now the industry is rethinking that view. 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:33.000 Well. 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.400 Wade is Bloomberg News Power and Renewable Energy reporter. He 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.640 joins us here in the Bloomberg Studio. 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:38.640 So well, as you. 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:40.440 Mentioned, this is a as you writ in the piece 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:42.320 which I just read from this is this is a 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.679 story about economics. It's a story about numbers. Here these 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:47.920 are power plants that were once thought to be too 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:51.040 expensive to operate. But something happened over the last few 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:52.320 years that changed the equation. 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:52.959 What was it? 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:57.120 Well, so nuclear power plants are big, expensive to operate, 0:08:57.200 --> 0:09:00.520 they need a lot of security. It's a complex thing 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:04.440 to build. I've been covering nuclear for about five years, 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.520 and when I started, the only real story was which 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:09.520 plant are we going to close down next? And I 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.640 started keeping a spreadsheet a few years ago and I 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:15.960 tracked thirteen reactors that shut down since twenty thirteen, and 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:18.640 they were all shut down ahead of time before they 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:23.160 were supposed to run out of operating time. And every 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:26.199 time it was like, we just can't compete. Gas is cheap, 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:30.280 solar is cheap, wind is cheap, nuclear is expensive. So 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:32.920 they all shut down and I asked, Everyone's like, well, 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:35.240 is that permanent. They're like, oh, yeah, yeah, we're never 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.240 turning those six back on again. But in the past 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:41.199 maybe two years or so, there's been a reversal and 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.360 it's really about climate change. Nuclear is carbon free energy, 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:48.079 and people are starting to say we really need those 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:49.280 nuclear power plants. 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:54.080 So it's it's not as much about how expensive natural 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:57.840 gas became. In the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine 0:09:58.280 --> 0:09:59.120 that was an. 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.480 Anomaly, went up, come down. It's pretty cheap right now. 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:03.839 So it's it's less about economics and more about renew 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.000 more about clean environmentalists. 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:07.720 Yeah, it's it's about clean energy. 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:11.679 But what's interesting about that is environmentalists hated nuclear power 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:13.520 plants for so many years. 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:17.080 And some still do. I mean, there's there's still reasonably 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:20.680 strong opposition to nuclear power plants. And it's true the 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:24.520 nuclear waste is really bad stuff, and it's not going away, 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:27.720 it's still there. But what I like to say is 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:32.320 that the prospect, the potential threat of a nuclear disaster 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:36.760 is now being you know, compared to the definite threat 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:37.880 of climate change. 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:42.160 So who is actually behind these changes? This is environmentalists 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:45.599 persuading politicians now to reopen this. This is just a 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:46.640 science community. 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:48.880 Oh, it's coming from all sorts of directions. One of 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:53.440 my favorite stories from earlier this year, last year actually 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:56.559 was about like Miss America, who was a huge pro 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.680 nuclear activist. Well not the one we have now's she 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.640 relinquished the crown, but last year's Miss America and all 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:06.000 of these young kids, all these twenty somethings. There's a 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:09.200 huge wave of young people saying we need nuclear energy. 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.160 There's a groundswell of support for it. It's been coming 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:13.680 from everywhere. 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:15.440 Yeah, it's pretty wild to see. I mean, they're okay, 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:17.600 So let's talk about certain plants in you piece. You 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:19.360 mentioned a dozen plants over the last few years that 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:22.679 have been shut down. You weren't able to figure out 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:25.839 the names of the ones that could be reopened necessarily 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:26.440 all of them. 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:29.040 Okay, here's the name that you want to know. It's Palisades. 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:29.480 Okay. 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.000 So of all the plants that I tracked that were 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.880 shutting down, Palisades was the last one that shut down 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:39.280 in twenty twenty two, and almost immediately it's in Michigan, 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:43.880 people were starting to think, oh, maybe that was a mistake. 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.280 Like even before it shut down, like a couple weeks 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:49.520 before it shut down, the governor was sending around a 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:53.480 letter to the Energy Department saying, can we not shut 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:54.840 it down? Can we figure out a way to keep 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.880 it open. It did shut down, but almost immediately the 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:02.400 company that bought it, his name is Hultech, started saying, 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:04.800 we could keep it open. We can figure out a 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.040 way to turn this around. They've got they just got 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.800 a couple of weeks ago, one point five billion dollar 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:14.200 loan from the Department of Energy to restart it. And 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:16.920 there was another one in California, Dieblo Canyon that was 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:18.080 going to shut. 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:20.160 Down my hometown nuclear power plants. 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.360 Right Tim, I know, Yeah, So that was that was 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:26.720 slated to be next, but the California state government started saying, 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.240 we actually should keep it open for the clean energy. 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.560 What about Three Mile Island. You mentioned that one in 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:34.600 the piece as well. 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.800 Okay, so there's two Three Mile Island reactors. One of 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:41.120 them everybody knows. They had the accident in nineteen seventy nine. 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:43.120 It has been shot ever since. The other one shut 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:46.200 down in twenty nineteen. It ran for decades without incident. 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.640 That's one of the plants that I've heard mentioned by 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:54.439 name as maybe it could reopen. I talked to the company. 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:57.520 They're not saying there's no plans, they're not talking about 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.720 doing it. So something to keep in mind is that 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.520 the shift here. We don't have definite plans that I'm 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.040 hearing about. We're definitely going to open this plant or 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.440 that plant. But what I'm hearing is these things that 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:11.640 everybody thought was like dead dead dead, never coming back. 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.880 People are starting to think maybe we can bring them back. 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.280 Now some of them they're already being dismantled and companies 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:22.840 are tearing them apart. Those aren't coming back, like our neighbor, 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.640 like in the point north of New York City. 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:26.440 What's going on there? 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:27.520 They're tearing out apart. 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:27.840 Done. 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:31.800 There's a big hole in the containment zone. You don't 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:33.599 want holes in your containment. 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:35.280 Don'ts No, then it's no longer contained. 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.280 Right, so that you know that it would cost too 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:38.960 much to try and fix that, there's no point. But 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:41.280 there's others that have just been sort of mothballed and 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:44.920 they're sitting there. Those could potentially be turned back on. 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:46.480 It would take some work, if cost some money, but 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:47.080 it's doable. 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.600 What about forget turning on the old nuclear power plants 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:53.480 that have been decommissioned. What about constructing new ones? Which 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.280 we've had one in recent. 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:57.600 Years open here in the US. 0:13:57.760 --> 0:13:58.880 You didn't see this is today? 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:00.000 Okay, today there's a new one. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.080 Yes, Vocal four went online this morning. 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:05.280 Okay, so this is in Georgia. 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:09.079 It's this it's the only major nuclear project in America 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:14.360 in recent decades. They were like, I don't know, ten 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:17.760 years late and fifteen billion dollars over budget. They were 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:21.160 building two reactors. One of them got switched on last year. 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.480 The other one officially was announced this morning. So that's 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:27.360 good news, but it's you know, it's clear, it's a 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:30.800 big project, it costs a lot. The potential for going 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:32.680 over budget is notable. 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.760 Does it show that there is an appetite now that 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.520 environmentalists have shifted their view? Does it show that there's 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:43.120 an appetite for these expensive projects if they are indeed 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.400 green save for the nuclear waste. 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:48.640 Okay, well, here's another shift up in tracking. Because I 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:52.960 watched the Vogel project for years, as it took longer 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:56.400 and longer and longer, and the cost overruns got higher 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:58.600 and high and higher. The only thing I ever heard 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.920 is we're never doing that again. And maybe in the 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.760 last year or so, I've started to hear maybe we 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:08.320 could do that again. So like again, nobody's announcing plans 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:10.800 to do it, but just the idea that people are 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.960 starting to say, maybe we could. That tells me there's 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:14.760 a big shift. 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:18.280 Can we zoom out a little bit? What does this 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:22.600 all mean then, for the future of renewable power? I 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:26.240 guess with these reopenings like, how close are we getting 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:31.280 to actually having a significant portion of the US's energy 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:33.800 supply rely on nuclear. 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.920 It's gonna happen, but it's a slow thing. Nuclear is 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:42.040 really slow industry to cover. The next thing you want 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.640 to be watching for small modular reactors. It's a different 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:47.680 generation of nuclear technology. 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:49.000 And there are a bunch of startups working on this. 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.440 There's a couple dozen that I know of that are 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:55.920 working on it. Probably not this decade, maybe one or 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.600 two small ones this decade, but the twenty thirties we 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:00.000 could see a decent amount of it. 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:04.000 Okay, let's get to the waste issue here, because, as 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:07.960 you mentioned, nuclear waste is not going away, Where does 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:12.840 it end up going? And with this shifting view does 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:14.240 it is it viewed differently at all? 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:16.720 Well, the answer of where it goes right now is 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:20.240 really simple. It goes nowhere. Every single reactor has a 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:24.040 stash of waste in these giant steel and concrete casks 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:29.320 out behind. There's no place to put it. There was 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:33.320 initially a push to create a national repository that kind 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:35.720 of fell by this yucka mountain would have been yucka 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:40.200 mountain that was officially shot down after decades of talking 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:42.040 about it. I remember people talking about it when I 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:45.960 was in college. So for the moment, they all stay 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:49.040 right there out behind the reactor. I was at a 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:51.320 big nuclear power plant a couple weeks ago. They had 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:56.800 a big stash way out back there's plant. There's some 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:02.400 proposals to build sort of another consolidated site. It wouldn't 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:04.680 be like yucka mountain. But there were two of them, 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:07.080 ones in New Mexico, ones in West Texas. They're actually 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.360 really close to each other. Both state governments have kind 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:14.439 of passed sub legislation to make those projects unviable for 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:17.600 the moment. So for the moment, none of it's going anywhere. 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.400 Yeah, if you're a state, you don't necessarily want nuclear 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:22.360 waste come into your backyard. 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:23.480 I guess it's fair to say. 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:27.159 The thing about nuclear waste is I mean, there's no 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:31.000 denying it's dangerous, but everything is dangerous. You live near 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:33.359 a coal plant, you might get asthma. You live near 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:35.359 a gas plant, you're going to be exposed to gas. 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:38.719 The people who run nuclear power plants, I've always been 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.080 impressed with them. They handle this stuff very carefully. We 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:45.440 don't have a lot of accidents from leaking nuclear waste casks. 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:47.480 Well, very briefly that the way you sum that up 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.920 to me sums up what environmentalists have said in recent 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:54.280 years the idea of using nuclear power. The benefits outweigh 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.600 the potential consequences, especially compared to burning fossil fuels. 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:00.560 I think everything has a risk, everything has costs. You 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:02.960 just have to figure out what risks you want to take. 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:07.240 Well Wade Bloomberg newspower and renewable energy editor here in 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.320 our Bloomberg studio. Check out his story and all his 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.400 nuclear power coverage at the Bloomberg Terminal and of course, 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:15.200 at Bloomberg dot com as well. 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:21.119 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.560 each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Applecarplay and 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:27.560 Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:31.120 listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.240 Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:36.920 I mean, I don't know about you, but it really 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:38.960 seems like Las Vegas is having a moment right now. 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:40.240 What do you think it is? Yeah? 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.280 I see the sphere on my Twitter all the time, 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.240 different concerts and people. 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:47.520 Do you see it on your Instagram though? Just on 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.240 your Twitter? Just on your Instagram Twitter? Okay, Twitter? 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:52.119 Interesting, Okay, so the sphere is part of it. I 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:54.159 think the Super Bowl was a lot. There are a 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:56.840 bunch of pro sports teams, some new, some having moved 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.520 now calling the city home. Certainly seems like Las Vegas 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.920 is shining. Also, got to think about gambling. It's also 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.240 doing well in Vegas. According to the industry group, the 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:09.120 American Gaming Association, last year, the Las Vegas Strip experienced 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:12.040 the highest year over year gaining casino revenue growth out 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:15.560 of any market in the US. For on the ground update, 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:17.680 let's go to Patrick Nichols, president and CEO of the 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:21.679 Venetian Resort. The pe firm Apollo Global Management bought the 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:23.919 Venetian back in twenty twenty two. The resort now undergoing 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:27.159 a one point five billion dollar renovation. Patrick, Welcome to 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:29.800 Bloomberg Business Week. Give us a business update. 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:30.520 How is business? 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:34.480 Well, thanks for having me, Tim and Emily. Business is great. 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:37.680 You know, we've seen, as you mentioned, a record twenty 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.399 twenty three across the board of the Venetian and the 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.680 industry benefit as well. I think what's interesting about Vegas 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.120 in the past few years, is it's transitioned from really 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:50.320 a gambling destination to something that's much more than that. 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:54.359 And now with sports teams as you mentioned, Raiders, the Knights, 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:57.760 the Aces, and the Sphere, it's become a very very 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:01.520 durable destination for our guests. 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:05.399 What about the impact of online gaming, because now with 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:09.240 online gaming, people don't necessarily have to go to Vegas 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:12.960 to actually make their bets. I know that you guys 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:17.200 do have a new sports playbook partnership with Yahoo Sports. 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:20.639 Yeah, we launched the ya Who's Sports Book powered by 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:23.560 William Hill just in time for this football season last 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:25.960 year in twenty twenty three. It's been doing remarkably well. 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:29.600 Just one of many new additions to the Venetian over 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:32.080 the past few years. And they answer your question about 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:35.320 online gaming. I think what makes Vegas so special is 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:37.760 that you can't get the Vegas experience online. So people 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:40.200 come to Las Vegas into the Venetian for so much 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:42.920 more than just, you know, to put a couple of 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:45.560 dollars in a slot machine. It's about seeing fish at 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:48.639 the Sphere, or seeing you two or coming to the 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.240 Super Bowl, eating at one of the best restaurants in 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:53.520 the world and staying in fantastic speeds. So you know, 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:56.840 Vegas is a destination and the Venetian within Las Vegas 0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:59.960 really creates its own experience versus what you get online. 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:01.800 I'm chuckling when you mentioned fish because I have a 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:04.320 friend who traveled to Vegas just to see the Fish Show. 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:05.920 I mean lots of friends actually who did this at 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:09.680 the Sphere and they were like, it's indescribable, completely life changing. 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:12.240 It's just sounded it like it was pretty cool. Speaking 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:13.840 of the Sphere, how big of a boon is it 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:16.240