WEBVTT - Zac Posen on SOHO, Fashion, and Food 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:06.880 My name is Jeffery Z Carring, and you're listening to 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:09.880 four Courses with Jeffrey Z Caring from my Heart Radio 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:12.600 and four courses I'll be taking you along for the 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:15.160 ride while I talked with the top talent of our time. 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.240 In each conversation, I focus on four different areas from 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:22.880 my guest life and career. And during those four courses, 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:25.279 I'm gonna dig deep in and cover new insights and 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:28.640 inspirations that we can all use to fuel ourselves to 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:32.560 push forward. My guest for this episode was a judge 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:36.000 on Project Runway for six years. Is known for making 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:40.199 stunningly beautiful gowns for celebrity red carpet appearances, and he 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:43.519 even designed the sharp and classic uniforms one by Delta 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:47.960 Flight attendants. Without further delight, please enjoy my conversation with 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:52.279 Zach Posen Hi, how are you? Long time? I know, 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:55.040 I feel like star Trek. You know, we got beamed 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:58.120 up wood and we just got beam back totally. What happened? 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:02.400 I don't know, but coming back for my first course. 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:05.440 Zach paints a vivid picture of his bohemian upbringing in 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:08.360 New York City's Soho neighborhood. Early life for you was 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:10.680 kind of amazing. I mean, I know, I've been in 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:13.240 New York since nineteen eighties, so I think we're born. 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:15.360 I moved to eight one. I think I was born 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:19.360 in Yeah. And my idea of Soho, I can only 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:25.200 tell you, was it was much cooler one than it 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:27.160 is now. Not that it's not cool now, I don't 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.520 get me wrong, but it's it's hyper commercialized now, to 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.319 the point where you know, you feel bad walking in 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.520 these shops because you have no business being in. That's 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.840 the way I feel a sudden like Soho in the 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:46.080 eighties was you know, artists, galleries, like very few kind 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:49.840 of avant garde fashion shops and that was it, and 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.320 a lot of graffiti and it was dirty and it 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:55.200 was something that was just fantastic about it. And I 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:57.040 don't know, I mean, it's hard to say why I 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:58.840 longed for those days, but I kind of do it. 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:00.600 I kind of long for times where the way it 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.600 was too in the seventies and eighties. I mean, everything 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:05.840 doesn't have to be Disneyland all the time. I think 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:08.680 it rinses, you know, it's like the alternate word for water, 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.760 and like Buddhism is chaos because when it comes like 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.600 a tsunami just destroys everything. It's just how you control 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:17.080 your water, you know. Yeah, I think a little of that, 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:20.720 a little of that chaos of Soho was fantastic. And 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:23.720 I remember like living at Jerry's, you know, I mean, like, 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:27.799 of course, it was like the character and the characters 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:31.799 you saw on in Soho were like mind boggling. I 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:33.640 don't I don't think this. It wasn't like the village 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:36.359 was very different. It was literally five rods from the 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.600 village and it was like another country when you were 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.040 a kid. How did that affect you? Like, I mean, 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.280 it's what I knew as a child's right, It's all 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:48.440 I knew. Like above fourteen Street was like no man's land, 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:51.360 growing up like a world downtown kids. So it was 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:53.800 did you live in a higher apartment or did you 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:55.960 live in a lower farm? We can really lived in 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:58.440 the middle of the building on the third floor, and 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.359 half of the loft was my dad's studio it's a 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:04.480 painter and the other half was our living space. That 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:06.800 is so cool. I mean, I don't think there's a 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:09.359 cooler existence. And that's how I knew. That's like all 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:14.000 my friends where kids that lived that way. What did 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:16.560 you experience as a kid that in the very beginning, 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:19.399 what was something that really attracted unity downstairs and sit 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:21.440 outside and like stare it people, because that's what I 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:25.960 used to do. I mean, SOHO was like full characters. 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:31.960 It was people expressing themselves, like full self expression, subculture artists, 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:35.120 That's what it was. You know, a lot of homeless 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:38.720 people then too, or like you know, squatters. There were 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:41.840 still squatters. It was still a cutting district. It was 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:45.520 still a garment partially a garment district, and it had 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:50.360 just changed before from being zoned to allow artists or 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:53.320 people to even legally live in the lofts. You know, 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.680 it was a real cultural mix you with the Italian community. 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:59.920 Still there parts of Little literally kind of melding a 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.000 to Chinatown. I mean that's where we grocery shopped. That's 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.080 what I knew. And then I watched it kind of 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:08.480 slightly start to change. There were definitely like supermodels of 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.600 the eighties that started to move there, definitely some great 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.960 you know, performers and artists, but it was pretty bohemian 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:20.840 of an existence. And then some of the fancier shops 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.680 slightly started to open their right and there was like 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:26.359 a different crowd because my parents were there since the 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:29.599 early seventies and I'm born night, so they really watched 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.880 storefronts starting to open. And so your mom, your mom 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:35.960 was emerged in the acquisitions and your dad is just 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:39.479 like seriously avant garde artists. I mean, how did that 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:43.359 coalesque into an apartment in Soho? And who made this 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.400 decision like, honey, we're living down here or sweetheart, I 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:48.320 think we should go to Soho? Was it which person 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:50.760 made the decision? Yeah, I mean I'll say, you know, 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:54.040 they have an interesting background. You know, they met in Italy, 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:56.960 then they moved back to New York. They were both 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:01.480 in university and my mom was a corporate lawyer at 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:05.200 that point. She had many different kind of interesting careers 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:07.080 and when I was in her belly, she was in 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:10.240 law school. But they moved to the loft I think 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:13.520 in like seventy four, and they needed a space for 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:16.520 him to paint. They needed good light. That's why people 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:21.880 moved to Soho. Is good light, high ceilings, affordable is 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.640 still a stretch for them. And that's when they moved there. 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:27.320 You know, half of the loft was our living space. 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:29.839 And you know, my sister and I grew up in 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:32.320 the middle of the loft, which you know probably is 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:36.520 not allowed, but we did. Our living room looked onto 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:39.640 a huge open parking lot and that was like a 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.919 major graffiti center. So it was like I looked onto 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:46.880 this living wall of art that was constantly changing and 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:52.000 moving and uh as SOHO changed on the front of 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.760 the loft on Spring Street. My mom thought I should 0:05:55.839 --> 0:06:00.680 learn how to count by selling lemonade, and really where 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:06.400 like kind of this entrepreneurial spirit and marketing came into play. 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:10.279 And she'd set me up there and SOHO had become 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:14.520 like a major tourist destination on like especially on weekends, 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.880 and I was banking. I mean, I had a whole system. 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:22.200 She'd go up in the hand operated elevator, bring it down. 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:24.200 I had a little check tablecloth, and I started to 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.839 learn my customer, probably starting at like six years old, 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:32.960 six so this is seven. Yeah, A cup of lemonade 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.880 was a quarter and four quarters equal to dollar, and 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:40.039 then she would smartly show me and take off the 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:45.000 top quarters and say that's cost of goods. I'm waving. 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:48.080 I'm waving your rent. You're gonna get your rent for free, 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.800 securities for free, because I was like, look probably like 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.640 half my age. You know. She was afraid I get 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:58.360 kidnapped because Soho was still a little like sketchy. It 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:02.920 was rough. So I imagine with the picture you painted, 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:05.960 which I'm sorry, it's like kind of an idealization of 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:08.160 how I would like to have been brought up, like 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:12.080 half an a loft. I remember living um down there 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:16.560 and a loft all by sal Kucnaa and Rebecca, And 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:20.240 I'll never forget the light in Soho in Rebeca at 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:23.080 a certain times, it's just magical. I can almost smell 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:24.920 your apartment. What is it? What was the smell like, 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.320 I mean, you're cooking? My dad cooked every night? Is 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:30.680 he painting at the would make yeah, So it's the 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:33.559 oil smell that's like home, Like I go into space, 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.760 I smell like oil painteds home for me. And so 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:39.400 we need to respect my dad in his creative process. 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:42.040 So his door like would stay closed, right, and we 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.920 had to learn really young, like not to bug our dad. 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:48.320 And then my mom would be at the office, and 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:51.920 then my dad really felt strongly a family that ate together, 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.520 stayed together. Dinner was really important, you know, they met 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:59.440 in Italy. They didn't come from food backgrounds or from 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:04.800 Arran's that really cooked seriously or that well, my dad's 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.840 from St. Louis, Missouri, so like ribs he knew, but 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:12.440 you know, gravy bread of that kind of you know stuff. 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:14.600 And and my mom, you know, was born in the 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:19.080 city and then moved out to New Jersey to her chagrin, 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:24.080 and her dad had a liquor store on like right 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:28.080 off forty two Street right after a prohibition. So but anyhow, 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.280 they met in Italy, so that started there, like food conversation. 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:35.040 They met in Florence in the sixties before the flood, 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:37.760 and so that started and then they were like living 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:39.520 in the East Village. But I also think it was 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:42.960 like a major time of food revolution in this country, 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:46.560 right like, and they really were on that journey, and 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:49.839 that that New York Times journey, I think with it 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:53.520 and living near Chinatown little literally like it all came 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:58.439 together and my dad would cook amazing meals for us. 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:01.040 And it was an open kitchen right to the living 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:05.040 room because it's a lot of co and it was electric, 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.240 although our upstairs neighbors had a gas range, which only 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.200 later I was kind of envious of. You know, it 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:15.120 was eclectic fair, I would say, went with the different 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:17.679 you know, food trends. I guess that would come in 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:19.920 a lot of you know, he did a great like 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:26.160 pasta puntanesca, and then you know, more healthy stuff and 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:29.559 then you know, once a week take out or delivery, 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:32.280 you know, which was probably at the time like Empire 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:40.840 Sejuan So Dad cooked, Dad cooked. My mom used like 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:43.520 baking as a thing to like do with us on 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:47.400 the weekends. You know. It was a pretty fabulous kind 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.720 of open kitchen and it was the center of the 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.960 house and extended to a dining table. My parents entertained, 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:59.920 and you know, I think Aloft lends itself to kind 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:04.640 into a theatricality. There's a kind of stage open quality 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:08.640 to Aloft, And you know, I think my sense of 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:15.040 fantasy and play transitioned and figurines transitioned to like extend 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:18.800 into the living space. I have really fond memories. I 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.839 didn't know anything else. Like all my friends were kids that, 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:26.360 coming to some degree, lived in different variations like this. 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:31.240 We were downtown kids on Halloween, all the kids because 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:35.960 it wasn't safe to trick or treat alone. We're organized together, 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:40.280 and all the different artists would kind of decorate their 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:43.640 studio spaces and we'd go in groups at night to 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:49.240 the different houses and see whatever, you know, crazy installations 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:52.680 set up they would do, and you know, we'd shop 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:55.880 at the green market. And then my mom built and 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:58.360 the building built a roof garden. I mean, I think 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:01.920 we tried corn, we had gray apes and soho. At 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:07.000 that time, there was a gardening community on the roofs 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:10.280 and that was really I think interesting to me because 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:13.520 I met like older neighbors that were really into this 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:18.599 and seed trading across rooftops. I remember once there was 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.560 a horrible fire on a on a building like a 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:24.960 few buildings over, and this woman who had built this 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:28.280 beautiful garden like us and everybody, and everybody coming together 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:31.320 to move the plants over. And I still think my 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:33.760 parents still have plants. They now live on a farm. 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:37.160 I think we still have plants from that. And I 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:40.560 just think that sense of cultivation really stayed with me. 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.920 And I think even though I entered into like fashion 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:48.640 and media and everything, I've always had I like this 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.280 kind of very grounded side. I like to get my 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.959 hands in the ground. I like to grow my own ingredients. 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:57.640 I mean, there's nothing better the flavor of something that 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:01.480 you've put that love and care into. It just tastes better. 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:03.920 It's like when you cook with love, you taste it. 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:06.560 I also find that it's I get I'm getting so 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:09.080 many like visuals because I know New York so well. 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.120 I'm getting the visual of the heat on an August 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:16.360 in a in aloft in hot and I'm getting a 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:19.720 visual of you being upstairs on that roof with the 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:25.480 silver uneven rooftop just throwing heat off in waves. I 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:27.920 mean we were as kids, like my friends and I 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:29.640 and the one other kid that grew up in the building. 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:34.160 I mean we were like scaling those buildings and I 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:36.000 don't you know, I just think if I ever have kids, 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.400 it's like crazy. I'm thinking today where I live, like 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:41.480 I can't have kids here, and I you know, it's 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.640 definitely fenced off. I mean we'd sit on the side 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:49.000 of that building like riff raffs, you know, I don't know, 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:51.520 climbing from one building to the next. It was like 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:55.480 a jungle gym, but somehow we just did it. It 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.400 was and it was it was definitely felt like our 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:30.760 large playground. For my second course, Zac outlines his early 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.920 cultural influences and shares his inspirations from creators outside of 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:39.360 the fashion world. Tell me, like lemonade, your dad's painting fabric. 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:42.800 You get a little getting some coin, and then suddenly 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:47.880 you decide that I don't know, you're like, it took close. 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:50.080 I wanted to be a song and dance kid, like 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:53.719 that was my thing. My parents raised me on like, 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.800 you know, the American song Book and there are all 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.680 the records of like the great American musicals, and that's 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.240 just like my sister and my dad recorded like everything 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.200 on vhs. He did expose me to like everything, and 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.920 that's what I wanted to do. And then my voice 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:13.720 changed and I was always like in my room making 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:17.160 stage and theater and costume like that was a big 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.960 part of our childhood and dress. And I had an 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:23.520 older sister that you know, it was very nurturing in that. 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:27.160 But you know, I started making clothing for my girlfriends 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:31.000 when I was like fourteen, lucky people sewing girl these 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:34.000 girls and they were like, you know kind of you know, 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:37.400 fourteen fifteen sixteen, like girls in my class that we're 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:41.360 starting to model or had been scouted or interacting in 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:45.320 the fashion actual real fashion scene, and I just thought 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.920 it was so damn it's seen from afar, like so 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:52.280 fabulous and glamorous and some you know, interesting kind of 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:56.560 culmination of theatricality and expression. And I will say, also, 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:02.280 let's go like Ashton had changed and fashion had become 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:08.560 very expressive and very crafted theater that was very fanciful, 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.840 with designers like John Galliano and Alexander McQueen coming into it. 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:16.040 That really changed the fashion game. And I was just 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:20.720 like entrenched into this. And also New York still had subculture, 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:24.440 so there was still like this like underground drag queen. 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:26.960 I don't know if I'm allowed to say that anymore. 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:29.080 I don't that's what they were called that, you know, 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:32.240 I don't know, I feel whatever the terminology today with whatever, 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:36.560 that's what the performers that, you know, we're self created 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:40.280 at the time. And I grew up downtown, so I 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.240 started going like at sixteen to these places called Jackie 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:48.160 Sixties that was like an underground, you know, fringe place 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:50.800 and you know, seeing how people express themselves, and it 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:54.520 just immersed itself into me making these frocks and dresses 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:58.680 for my girlfriends and then designing for like the theater 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.840 of my school. You know. Then I had to make 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:05.240 a choice whether to go to like an academic school 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:06.920 because I had changed high schools. I went to an 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:10.000 amazing high school called St. Anne's that was really formative, 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:14.600 and it was an amazing group of very creative people, 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:16.600 and you could make your own curriculum, and I just 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.520 like I couldn't believe the resources did a costume shop 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:22.960 and I just lived in this costume shop and used 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:27.680 those sewing machines and materials, and I applied to design schools. 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:30.880 I had done an internship for about two and a 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:34.080 half three years at the Metropolitan Museum in the costume 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:38.040 collection in high school, and that was like really formative. 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:41.840 That was like my fashion history started to meet. Designers 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.560 started to think about fashion as an art form, which 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:47.360 I had never thought about because I had been raised 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:51.720 in this idea of of art not for the purpose 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:58.040 of commerce, right like artists for dialogue, for expression, history 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:02.040 and emotion, and in a weird way, like I'd grown 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.719 up in the eighties with with a whole generation of 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.440 kids of artists, where you know, a market had really 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.800 formed around it. So I was like finally finding this 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.679 idea of fashion is an art form and learning my 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.880 language of what I wanted to create. And I went 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.600 to design school and I moved to England. I moved 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:25.560 to England, went to design school and really like took 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:29.159 London by storm. I was like a real character in 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:31.840 New York. You know. I walked around in like a 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:37.080 fake for floor length Jellaba coat, you know, and were 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:39.879 ivy in my hair and you know, Fedora feathers and 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.480 all the scraps that I would find in Soho every 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:45.360 day and kind of get away with it and pull 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:48.440 it off on the subway. It was like a fashion 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:50.960 show for me, the city and my subway car especially, 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:54.080 I'd like the same people going to Brooklyn every day 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:56.040 on the n R train and it would be like 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.119 a commentary of like this crazy outfit with this little 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:03.199 kid dressed up and uh yeah. Led me to London 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.080 to go to design school, and I hit the ground 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:10.240 running and from there, like press started and I knew 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.480 and I kind of, you know, I wanted to work 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:17.840 for people, and then real retailers wanted to like partner 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.719 with me. Yeah what affected like, I mean, you're right, 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:24.160 you're in the bulls eye Have eighty four is MTV eight, 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:28.520 is VH one. I'm an MTV cat born into it 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.760 book and that with the movie Wall Street. Michael Douglas. 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:38.080 And you have such a gigantic visual museum of culture 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:42.639 that is so specific, bombarding you every day. You got it. 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:46.000 I can't imagine coming from where you came from. You 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.000 must have a century overload. How can you not? I 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:51.240 mean you're it seems like you were like created to 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:55.320 do this kind up. Yeah, it felt pretty natural. Who 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.199 is your sort of mentor? Mentor? It's a bad words sometimes, 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:01.439 who your your visuals? You said, who would you like 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.679 your top three? You would say, you know, this person 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:08.000 is that classical line I love? Oh that's hard. Like 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:12.040 what designers do? I love not designers, It could be anybody. 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:14.040 People say what chefs you like? And I talk about 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:17.080 sensibilities because I mean, I mean, there's a great ships Yeah, 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:20.000 you know what a copy of show? Yeah? I like imagineers, right, 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:24.280 like people that really build universes, and you built world 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:26.720 so like you know, I can go from anywhere from 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:31.480 like a Fellini to like Jim Henson to like a 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:35.720 crystal Ball Balenciaga to the French laundry, you know, like 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:38.840 and then you know, like I I I like people 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:42.600 that have really deep, rich worlds. You know, I'll say 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.480 in terms of food world like I have an ant 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:49.800 that bakes a lot, and like lifestyle, and I will 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:55.080 never forget when she gave my mom the first Martha 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:59.160 Stewart Living cook Buck, the first one, and it changed 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:01.720 my whole perspective because all of a sudden, it was 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:05.280 like lifestyle and it was these funny numbers like cooking 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:10.320 for thirty two, and it was so studiosyncratic and and odd, 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:15.679 but like fulfilled this kind of bizarre fantasy of like 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:19.639 illusions of grandeur that were so different from my upbringing 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:23.760 but so intriguing to me. And I was also really 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:26.560 dyslexic and had a d D, so like visuals of 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:31.760 cookbooks were really powerful for me. The other thing that 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:34.040 was really important was this cookbook my dad called called 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:36.800 Verenn Practique, And so I'm like the school, the Verenne 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:40.320 School of France, and it was visual and I would 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:42.119 take this and then like go get a fish in 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.440 Chinatown and like teach myself how to do this or 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:49.240 how to temper chocolate and play with chocolate for hours 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:52.200 and days, and then on TV there was no Food 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:56.320 in Cooking Network yet, but there was a show called 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:59.159 Great Chefs and it was just like the voiceover and 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:01.760 I can't remember channel it was on at the time, like, 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:04.359 but I would love the show because it was like 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:08.000 all these chefs from around the world or domestically cooking 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:11.520 their signature dish and watching their hands with their voice 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:14.480 over and it was like high cuisine. And I would 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:17.520 then go home and try to like interpret that and 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:21.320 these like crazy techniques, and I just you know, I 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:25.119 went on into this like baking crazy baking vortex of 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:27.760 like you know, and I would just bake cakes on 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:30.639 the weekend. At that point, my parents had found a 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:34.440 small farmhouse in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, and like for any 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:37.120 kind of like neighbors or events or anywhere I could, 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:41.240 I would like spend like two days crafting the pastry 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:44.760 or or the cake, and you know, super elaborate, you know, 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:48.200 using balloons to dip in chocolate to get the chocolate 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:51.560 dome and score it on the inside so when I 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:56.600 hit it it made a shape, you know, crazy intricate stuff. Um, 0:21:56.640 --> 0:22:02.240 you know, and then I just like forget all that baking, uh, 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:05.239 you know, it was really regimented, and you know a 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:08.199 lot of trial and error in that. You know, a 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:11.359 lot of you know mooses that became running, and you 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:13.680 know that's the way it goes. That's the way you learn. 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:16.000 But the good thing, the good thing what cooking is 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:18.520 if you if you funk up address part of my language, 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:22.320 you can't eat it. If you messed up us to 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:24.119 play and still have dessert, you know, it's going to 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:25.800 be fine to learn how to do it. I mean, 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:28.200 my girlfriends might argue they kind of like my fuck 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:32.320 up dresses, like you know, over the years, like my 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:36.040 image or like who I was, we defined this place 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:40.040 where it met kind of what I had become and represented, right, 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:43.600 But it wasn't necessarily as it used my skill set 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:46.040 which I had trained in like high craft, which had 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:49.600 been disappearing in America. And so then like the clothing 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:53.679 came became like really more uptowny, I would say, And 0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:56.320 that was really interesting, right because it like gave a 0:22:56.400 --> 0:23:00.520 marketplace for my technique and and c ath that I 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:03.840 had learned. But like the girlfriends always just like the 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:06.639 funk ups and the things that were rougher and felt 0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:10.040 more like me because like I am naturally kind of 0:23:10.240 --> 0:23:15.040 have like a more punk expressive side to me. And 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:16.800 now I'm at the stage where it's like, how do 0:23:16.840 --> 0:23:20.280 I kind of refined that? And and that's exciting. That's 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:22.639 like a fun moment to be in. You're such a 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:27.760 I mean, grounded, foundational person. You seem very classical. Your 0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:31.320 lines are almost classical in some very distinct ways. And 0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:34.199 how did how did the you know you dress a 0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:38.800