Speaker 1: My name is Jeffery Z Carring, and you're listening to
Speaker 1: four Courses with Jeffrey Z Caring from my Heart Radio
Speaker 1: and four courses I'll be taking you along for the
Speaker 1: ride while I talked with the top talent of our time.
Speaker 1: In each conversation, I focus on four different areas from
Speaker 1: my guest life and career. And during those four courses,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna dig deep in and cover new insights and
Speaker 1: inspirations that we can all use to fuel ourselves to
Speaker 1: push forward. My guest for this episode was a judge
Speaker 1: on Project Runway for six years. Is known for making
Speaker 1: stunningly beautiful gowns for celebrity red carpet appearances, and he
Speaker 1: even designed the sharp and classic uniforms one by Delta
Speaker 1: Flight attendants. Without further delight, please enjoy my conversation with
Speaker 1: Zach Posen Hi, how are you? Long time? I know,
Speaker 1: I feel like star Trek. You know, we got beamed
Speaker 1: up wood and we just got beam back totally. What happened?
Speaker 1: I don't know, but coming back for my first course.
Speaker 1: Zach paints a vivid picture of his bohemian upbringing in
Speaker 1: New York City's Soho neighborhood. Early life for you was
Speaker 1: kind of amazing. I mean, I know, I've been in
Speaker 1: New York since nineteen eighties, so I think we're born.
Speaker 1: I moved to eight one. I think I was born
Speaker 1: in Yeah. And my idea of Soho, I can only
Speaker 1: tell you, was it was much cooler one than it
Speaker 1: is now. Not that it's not cool now, I don't
Speaker 1: get me wrong, but it's it's hyper commercialized now, to
Speaker 1: the point where you know, you feel bad walking in
Speaker 1: these shops because you have no business being in. That's
Speaker 1: the way I feel a sudden like Soho in the
Speaker 1: eighties was you know, artists, galleries, like very few kind
Speaker 1: of avant garde fashion shops and that was it, and
Speaker 1: a lot of graffiti and it was dirty and it
Speaker 1: was something that was just fantastic about it. And I
Speaker 1: don't know, I mean, it's hard to say why I
Speaker 1: longed for those days, but I kind of do it.
Speaker 1: I kind of long for times where the way it
Speaker 1: was too in the seventies and eighties. I mean, everything
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be Disneyland all the time. I think
Speaker 1: it rinses, you know, it's like the alternate word for water,
Speaker 1: and like Buddhism is chaos because when it comes like
Speaker 1: a tsunami just destroys everything. It's just how you control
Speaker 1: your water, you know. Yeah, I think a little of that,
Speaker 1: a little of that chaos of Soho was fantastic. And
Speaker 1: I remember like living at Jerry's, you know, I mean, like,
Speaker 1: of course, it was like the character and the characters
Speaker 1: you saw on in Soho were like mind boggling. I
Speaker 1: don't I don't think this. It wasn't like the village
Speaker 1: was very different. It was literally five rods from the
Speaker 1: village and it was like another country when you were
Speaker 1: a kid. How did that affect you? Like, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's what I knew as a child's right, It's all
Speaker 1: I knew. Like above fourteen Street was like no man's land,
Speaker 1: growing up like a world downtown kids. So it was
Speaker 1: did you live in a higher apartment or did you
Speaker 1: live in a lower farm? We can really lived in
Speaker 1: the middle of the building on the third floor, and
Speaker 1: half of the loft was my dad's studio it's a
Speaker 1: painter and the other half was our living space. That
Speaker 1: is so cool. I mean, I don't think there's a
Speaker 1: cooler existence. And that's how I knew. That's like all
Speaker 1: my friends where kids that lived that way. What did
Speaker 1: you experience as a kid that in the very beginning,
Speaker 1: what was something that really attracted unity downstairs and sit
Speaker 1: outside and like stare it people, because that's what I
Speaker 1: used to do. I mean, SOHO was like full characters.
Speaker 1: It was people expressing themselves, like full self expression, subculture artists,
Speaker 1: That's what it was. You know, a lot of homeless
Speaker 1: people then too, or like you know, squatters. There were
Speaker 1: still squatters. It was still a cutting district. It was
Speaker 1: still a garment partially a garment district, and it had
Speaker 1: just changed before from being zoned to allow artists or
Speaker 1: people to even legally live in the lofts. You know,
Speaker 1: it was a real cultural mix you with the Italian community.
Speaker 1: Still there parts of Little literally kind of melding a
Speaker 1: to Chinatown. I mean that's where we grocery shopped. That's
Speaker 1: what I knew. And then I watched it kind of
Speaker 1: slightly start to change. There were definitely like supermodels of
Speaker 1: the eighties that started to move there, definitely some great
Speaker 1: you know, performers and artists, but it was pretty bohemian
Speaker 1: of an existence. And then some of the fancier shops
Speaker 1: slightly started to open their right and there was like
Speaker 1: a different crowd because my parents were there since the
Speaker 1: early seventies and I'm born night, so they really watched
Speaker 1: storefronts starting to open. And so your mom, your mom
Speaker 1: was emerged in the acquisitions and your dad is just
Speaker 1: like seriously avant garde artists. I mean, how did that
Speaker 1: coalesque into an apartment in Soho? And who made this
Speaker 1: decision like, honey, we're living down here or sweetheart, I
Speaker 1: think we should go to Soho? Was it which person
Speaker 1: made the decision? Yeah, I mean I'll say, you know,
Speaker 1: they have an interesting background. You know, they met in Italy,
Speaker 1: then they moved back to New York. They were both
Speaker 1: in university and my mom was a corporate lawyer at
Speaker 1: that point. She had many different kind of interesting careers
Speaker 1: and when I was in her belly, she was in
Speaker 1: law school. But they moved to the loft I think
Speaker 1: in like seventy four, and they needed a space for
Speaker 1: him to paint. They needed good light. That's why people
Speaker 1: moved to Soho. Is good light, high ceilings, affordable is
Speaker 1: still a stretch for them. And that's when they moved there.
Speaker 1: You know, half of the loft was our living space.
Speaker 1: And you know, my sister and I grew up in
Speaker 1: the middle of the loft, which you know probably is
Speaker 1: not allowed, but we did. Our living room looked onto
Speaker 1: a huge open parking lot and that was like a
Speaker 1: major graffiti center. So it was like I looked onto
Speaker 1: this living wall of art that was constantly changing and
Speaker 1: moving and uh as SOHO changed on the front of
Speaker 1: the loft on Spring Street. My mom thought I should
Speaker 1: learn how to count by selling lemonade, and really where
Speaker 1: like kind of this entrepreneurial spirit and marketing came into play.
Speaker 1: And she'd set me up there and SOHO had become
Speaker 1: like a major tourist destination on like especially on weekends,
Speaker 1: and I was banking. I mean, I had a whole system.
Speaker 1: She'd go up in the hand operated elevator, bring it down.
Speaker 1: I had a little check tablecloth, and I started to
Speaker 1: learn my customer, probably starting at like six years old,
Speaker 1: six so this is seven. Yeah, A cup of lemonade
Speaker 1: was a quarter and four quarters equal to dollar, and
Speaker 1: then she would smartly show me and take off the
Speaker 1: top quarters and say that's cost of goods. I'm waving.
Speaker 1: I'm waving your rent. You're gonna get your rent for free,
Speaker 1: securities for free, because I was like, look probably like
Speaker 1: half my age. You know. She was afraid I get
Speaker 1: kidnapped because Soho was still a little like sketchy. It
Speaker 1: was rough. So I imagine with the picture you painted,
Speaker 1: which I'm sorry, it's like kind of an idealization of
Speaker 1: how I would like to have been brought up, like
Speaker 1: half an a loft. I remember living um down there
Speaker 1: and a loft all by sal Kucnaa and Rebecca, And
Speaker 1: I'll never forget the light in Soho in Rebeca at
Speaker 1: a certain times, it's just magical. I can almost smell
Speaker 1: your apartment. What is it? What was the smell like,
Speaker 1: I mean, you're cooking? My dad cooked every night? Is
Speaker 1: he painting at the would make yeah, So it's the
Speaker 1: oil smell that's like home, Like I go into space,
Speaker 1: I smell like oil painteds home for me. And so
Speaker 1: we need to respect my dad in his creative process.
Speaker 1: So his door like would stay closed, right, and we
Speaker 1: had to learn really young, like not to bug our dad.
Speaker 1: And then my mom would be at the office, and
Speaker 1: then my dad really felt strongly a family that ate together,
Speaker 1: stayed together. Dinner was really important, you know, they met
Speaker 1: in Italy. They didn't come from food backgrounds or from
Speaker 1: Arran's that really cooked seriously or that well, my dad's
Speaker 1: from St. Louis, Missouri, so like ribs he knew, but
Speaker 1: you know, gravy bread of that kind of you know stuff.
Speaker 1: And and my mom, you know, was born in the
Speaker 1: city and then moved out to New Jersey to her chagrin,
Speaker 1: and her dad had a liquor store on like right
Speaker 1: off forty two Street right after a prohibition. So but anyhow,
Speaker 1: they met in Italy, so that started there, like food conversation.
Speaker 1: They met in Florence in the sixties before the flood,
Speaker 1: and so that started and then they were like living
Speaker 1: in the East Village. But I also think it was
Speaker 1: like a major time of food revolution in this country,
Speaker 1: right like, and they really were on that journey, and
Speaker 1: that that New York Times journey, I think with it
Speaker 1: and living near Chinatown little literally like it all came
Speaker 1: together and my dad would cook amazing meals for us.
Speaker 1: And it was an open kitchen right to the living
Speaker 1: room because it's a lot of co and it was electric,
Speaker 1: although our upstairs neighbors had a gas range, which only
Speaker 1: later I was kind of envious of. You know, it
Speaker 1: was eclectic fair, I would say, went with the different
Speaker 1: you know, food trends. I guess that would come in
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, he did a great like
Speaker 1: pasta puntanesca, and then you know, more healthy stuff and
Speaker 1: then you know, once a week take out or delivery,
Speaker 1: you know, which was probably at the time like Empire
Speaker 1: Sejuan So Dad cooked, Dad cooked. My mom used like
Speaker 1: baking as a thing to like do with us on
Speaker 1: the weekends. You know. It was a pretty fabulous kind
Speaker 1: of open kitchen and it was the center of the
Speaker 1: house and extended to a dining table. My parents entertained,
Speaker 1: and you know, I think Aloft lends itself to kind
Speaker 1: into a theatricality. There's a kind of stage open quality
Speaker 1: to Aloft, And you know, I think my sense of
Speaker 1: fantasy and play transitioned and figurines transitioned to like extend
Speaker 1: into the living space. I have really fond memories. I
Speaker 1: didn't know anything else. Like all my friends were kids that,
Speaker 1: coming to some degree, lived in different variations like this.
Speaker 1: We were downtown kids on Halloween, all the kids because
Speaker 1: it wasn't safe to trick or treat alone. We're organized together,
Speaker 1: and all the different artists would kind of decorate their
Speaker 1: studio spaces and we'd go in groups at night to
Speaker 1: the different houses and see whatever, you know, crazy installations
Speaker 1: set up they would do, and you know, we'd shop
Speaker 1: at the green market. And then my mom built and
Speaker 1: the building built a roof garden. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: we tried corn, we had gray apes and soho. At
Speaker 1: that time, there was a gardening community on the roofs
Speaker 1: and that was really I think interesting to me because
Speaker 1: I met like older neighbors that were really into this
Speaker 1: and seed trading across rooftops. I remember once there was
Speaker 1: a horrible fire on a on a building like a
Speaker 1: few buildings over, and this woman who had built this
Speaker 1: beautiful garden like us and everybody, and everybody coming together
Speaker 1: to move the plants over. And I still think my
Speaker 1: parents still have plants. They now live on a farm.
Speaker 1: I think we still have plants from that. And I
Speaker 1: just think that sense of cultivation really stayed with me.
Speaker 1: And I think even though I entered into like fashion
Speaker 1: and media and everything, I've always had I like this
Speaker 1: kind of very grounded side. I like to get my
Speaker 1: hands in the ground. I like to grow my own ingredients.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's nothing better the flavor of something that
Speaker 1: you've put that love and care into. It just tastes better.
Speaker 1: It's like when you cook with love, you taste it.
Speaker 1: I also find that it's I get I'm getting so
Speaker 1: many like visuals because I know New York so well.
Speaker 1: I'm getting the visual of the heat on an August
Speaker 1: in a in aloft in hot and I'm getting a
Speaker 1: visual of you being upstairs on that roof with the
Speaker 1: silver uneven rooftop just throwing heat off in waves. I
Speaker 1: mean we were as kids, like my friends and I
Speaker 1: and the one other kid that grew up in the building.
Speaker 1: I mean we were like scaling those buildings and I
Speaker 1: don't you know, I just think if I ever have kids,
Speaker 1: it's like crazy. I'm thinking today where I live, like
Speaker 1: I can't have kids here, and I you know, it's
Speaker 1: definitely fenced off. I mean we'd sit on the side
Speaker 1: of that building like riff raffs, you know, I don't know,
Speaker 1: climbing from one building to the next. It was like
Speaker 1: a jungle gym, but somehow we just did it. It
Speaker 1: was and it was it was definitely felt like our
Speaker 1: large playground. For my second course, Zac outlines his early
Speaker 1: cultural influences and shares his inspirations from creators outside of
Speaker 1: the fashion world. Tell me, like lemonade, your dad's painting fabric.
Speaker 1: You get a little getting some coin, and then suddenly
Speaker 1: you decide that I don't know, you're like, it took close.
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a song and dance kid, like
Speaker 1: that was my thing. My parents raised me on like,
Speaker 1: you know, the American song Book and there are all
Speaker 1: the records of like the great American musicals, and that's
Speaker 1: just like my sister and my dad recorded like everything
Speaker 1: on vhs. He did expose me to like everything, and
Speaker 1: that's what I wanted to do. And then my voice
Speaker 1: changed and I was always like in my room making
Speaker 1: stage and theater and costume like that was a big
Speaker 1: part of our childhood and dress. And I had an
Speaker 1: older sister that you know, it was very nurturing in that.
Speaker 1: But you know, I started making clothing for my girlfriends
Speaker 1: when I was like fourteen, lucky people sewing girl these
Speaker 1: girls and they were like, you know kind of you know,
Speaker 1: fourteen fifteen sixteen, like girls in my class that we're
Speaker 1: starting to model or had been scouted or interacting in
Speaker 1: the fashion actual real fashion scene, and I just thought
Speaker 1: it was so damn it's seen from afar, like so
Speaker 1: fabulous and glamorous and some you know, interesting kind of
Speaker 1: culmination of theatricality and expression. And I will say, also,
Speaker 1: let's go like Ashton had changed and fashion had become
Speaker 1: very expressive and very crafted theater that was very fanciful,
Speaker 1: with designers like John Galliano and Alexander McQueen coming into it.
Speaker 1: That really changed the fashion game. And I was just
Speaker 1: like entrenched into this. And also New York still had subculture,
Speaker 1: so there was still like this like underground drag queen.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm allowed to say that anymore.
Speaker 1: I don't that's what they were called that, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I feel whatever the terminology today with whatever,
Speaker 1: that's what the performers that, you know, we're self created
Speaker 1: at the time. And I grew up downtown, so I
Speaker 1: started going like at sixteen to these places called Jackie
Speaker 1: Sixties that was like an underground, you know, fringe place
Speaker 1: and you know, seeing how people express themselves, and it
Speaker 1: just immersed itself into me making these frocks and dresses
Speaker 1: for my girlfriends and then designing for like the theater
Speaker 1: of my school. You know. Then I had to make
Speaker 1: a choice whether to go to like an academic school
Speaker 1: because I had changed high schools. I went to an
Speaker 1: amazing high school called St. Anne's that was really formative,
Speaker 1: and it was an amazing group of very creative people,
Speaker 1: and you could make your own curriculum, and I just
Speaker 1: like I couldn't believe the resources did a costume shop
Speaker 1: and I just lived in this costume shop and used
Speaker 1: those sewing machines and materials, and I applied to design schools.
Speaker 1: I had done an internship for about two and a
Speaker 1: half three years at the Metropolitan Museum in the costume
Speaker 1: collection in high school, and that was like really formative.
Speaker 1: That was like my fashion history started to meet. Designers
Speaker 1: started to think about fashion as an art form, which
Speaker 1: I had never thought about because I had been raised
Speaker 1: in this idea of of art not for the purpose
Speaker 1: of commerce, right like artists for dialogue, for expression, history
Speaker 1: and emotion, and in a weird way, like I'd grown
Speaker 1: up in the eighties with with a whole generation of
Speaker 1: kids of artists, where you know, a market had really
Speaker 1: formed around it. So I was like finally finding this
Speaker 1: idea of fashion is an art form and learning my
Speaker 1: language of what I wanted to create. And I went
Speaker 1: to design school and I moved to England. I moved
Speaker 1: to England, went to design school and really like took
Speaker 1: London by storm. I was like a real character in
Speaker 1: New York. You know. I walked around in like a
Speaker 1: fake for floor length Jellaba coat, you know, and were
Speaker 1: ivy in my hair and you know, Fedora feathers and
Speaker 1: all the scraps that I would find in Soho every
Speaker 1: day and kind of get away with it and pull
Speaker 1: it off on the subway. It was like a fashion
Speaker 1: show for me, the city and my subway car especially,
Speaker 1: I'd like the same people going to Brooklyn every day
Speaker 1: on the n R train and it would be like
Speaker 1: a commentary of like this crazy outfit with this little
Speaker 1: kid dressed up and uh yeah. Led me to London
Speaker 1: to go to design school, and I hit the ground
Speaker 1: running and from there, like press started and I knew
Speaker 1: and I kind of, you know, I wanted to work
Speaker 1: for people, and then real retailers wanted to like partner
Speaker 1: with me. Yeah what affected like, I mean, you're right,
Speaker 1: you're in the bulls eye Have eighty four is MTV eight,
Speaker 1: is VH one. I'm an MTV cat born into it
Speaker 1: book and that with the movie Wall Street. Michael Douglas.
Speaker 1: And you have such a gigantic visual museum of culture
Speaker 1: that is so specific, bombarding you every day. You got it.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine coming from where you came from. You
Speaker 1: must have a century overload. How can you not? I
Speaker 1: mean you're it seems like you were like created to
Speaker 1: do this kind up. Yeah, it felt pretty natural. Who
Speaker 1: is your sort of mentor? Mentor? It's a bad words sometimes,
Speaker 1: who your your visuals? You said, who would you like
Speaker 1: your top three? You would say, you know, this person
Speaker 1: is that classical line I love? Oh that's hard. Like
Speaker 1: what designers do? I love not designers, It could be anybody.
Speaker 1: People say what chefs you like? And I talk about
Speaker 1: sensibilities because I mean, I mean, there's a great ships Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what a copy of show? Yeah? I like imagineers, right,
Speaker 1: like people that really build universes, and you built world
Speaker 1: so like you know, I can go from anywhere from
Speaker 1: like a Fellini to like Jim Henson to like a
Speaker 1: crystal Ball Balenciaga to the French laundry, you know, like
Speaker 1: and then you know, like I I I like people
Speaker 1: that have really deep, rich worlds. You know, I'll say
Speaker 1: in terms of food world like I have an ant
Speaker 1: that bakes a lot, and like lifestyle, and I will
Speaker 1: never forget when she gave my mom the first Martha
Speaker 1: Stewart Living cook Buck, the first one, and it changed
Speaker 1: my whole perspective because all of a sudden, it was
Speaker 1: like lifestyle and it was these funny numbers like cooking
Speaker 1: for thirty two, and it was so studiosyncratic and and odd,
Speaker 1: but like fulfilled this kind of bizarre fantasy of like
Speaker 1: illusions of grandeur that were so different from my upbringing
Speaker 1: but so intriguing to me. And I was also really
Speaker 1: dyslexic and had a d D, so like visuals of
Speaker 1: cookbooks were really powerful for me. The other thing that
Speaker 1: was really important was this cookbook my dad called called
Speaker 1: Verenn Practique, And so I'm like the school, the Verenne
Speaker 1: School of France, and it was visual and I would
Speaker 1: take this and then like go get a fish in
Speaker 1: Chinatown and like teach myself how to do this or
Speaker 1: how to temper chocolate and play with chocolate for hours
Speaker 1: and days, and then on TV there was no Food
Speaker 1: in Cooking Network yet, but there was a show called
Speaker 1: Great Chefs and it was just like the voiceover and
Speaker 1: I can't remember channel it was on at the time, like,
Speaker 1: but I would love the show because it was like
Speaker 1: all these chefs from around the world or domestically cooking
Speaker 1: their signature dish and watching their hands with their voice
Speaker 1: over and it was like high cuisine. And I would
Speaker 1: then go home and try to like interpret that and
Speaker 1: these like crazy techniques, and I just you know, I
Speaker 1: went on into this like baking crazy baking vortex of
Speaker 1: like you know, and I would just bake cakes on
Speaker 1: the weekend. At that point, my parents had found a
Speaker 1: small farmhouse in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, and like for any
Speaker 1: kind of like neighbors or events or anywhere I could,
Speaker 1: I would like spend like two days crafting the pastry
Speaker 1: or or the cake, and you know, super elaborate, you know,
Speaker 1: using balloons to dip in chocolate to get the chocolate
Speaker 1: dome and score it on the inside so when I
Speaker 1: hit it it made a shape, you know, crazy intricate stuff. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, and then I just like forget all that baking, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it was really regimented, and you know a
Speaker 1: lot of trial and error in that. You know, a
Speaker 1: lot of you know mooses that became running, and you
Speaker 1: know that's the way it goes. That's the way you learn.
Speaker 1: But the good thing, the good thing what cooking is
Speaker 1: if you if you funk up address part of my language,
Speaker 1: you can't eat it. If you messed up us to
Speaker 1: play and still have dessert, you know, it's going to
Speaker 1: be fine to learn how to do it. I mean,
Speaker 1: my girlfriends might argue they kind of like my fuck
Speaker 1: up dresses, like you know, over the years, like my
Speaker 1: image or like who I was, we defined this place
Speaker 1: where it met kind of what I had become and represented, right,
Speaker 1: But it wasn't necessarily as it used my skill set
Speaker 1: which I had trained in like high craft, which had
Speaker 1: been disappearing in America. And so then like the clothing
Speaker 1: came became like really more uptowny, I would say, And
Speaker 1: that was really interesting, right because it like gave a
Speaker 1: marketplace for my technique and and c ath that I
Speaker 1: had learned. But like the girlfriends always just like the
Speaker 1: funk ups and the things that were rougher and felt
Speaker 1: more like me because like I am naturally kind of
Speaker 1: have like a more punk expressive side to me. And
Speaker 1: now I'm at the stage where it's like, how do
Speaker 1: I kind of refined that? And and that's exciting. That's
Speaker 1: like a fun moment to be in. You're such a
Speaker 1: I mean, grounded, foundational person. You seem very classical. Your
Speaker 1: lines are almost classical in some very distinct ways. And
Speaker 1: how did how did the you know you dress a
Speaker 1: lot of entertainers, How did the entertainment world collide for you? Here?
Speaker 1: You are some of that is so creative and so
Speaker 1: downtown and driven, and now you're Hollywood celebrities that come
Speaker 1: in to your place to do to get fitted. I
Speaker 1: love Gene Kelly. Yeah, I like singing in the ring
Speaker 1: American take it as pinpointed's to that. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I how does that? How do you squeing that? Wanting
Speaker 1: to be a performer in its start being intrigued with
Speaker 1: like the movie process, you know. I got sent like
Speaker 1: after my first show by Vogue magazine. I was housed
Speaker 1: in l A by the West Coast editor and I
Speaker 1: did my first trunk show there, right, and I just
Speaker 1: started to I'd been dressing people like Naomi Campbell saw
Speaker 1: a dress of mine on a girlfriend and like needed
Speaker 1: to find that dress when I was in London. So
Speaker 1: it had like just started and I started going out
Speaker 1: in New York pretty young, right, and like in that scene,
Speaker 1: and it was like that mix of that time in
Speaker 1: the mid you know, nineties, when it all mixed together,
Speaker 1: so like they had seen me grow up, like these
Speaker 1: supermodels and our supermodels even to be like who seemed
Speaker 1: way older than me actually were like only a year
Speaker 1: older than made. But you know, living in dull lives, um,
Speaker 1: you know, we're with me through this journey. And so
Speaker 1: then it was like everybody, you know, the big stars
Speaker 1: then started to had a smell of it and wanted it.
Speaker 1: And then I started doing shows and I went out
Speaker 1: to l A with this collection, and I remember I
Speaker 1: did my first trunk show and uh, this woman walks
Speaker 1: in and then she left. She like touched everything, didn't
Speaker 1: say anything and left, and then like five minutes she
Speaker 1: came back in and introduced herself as at hello, I'm
Speaker 1: Angelica Houston, you know, and like like you know, and
Speaker 1: it was like the legends and I think that like
Speaker 1: Hollywood just really got me. And I was very theatrical
Speaker 1: and kind of naturally naively poised for that, and we
Speaker 1: just like fed off each other and became like a
Speaker 1: dance that started, you know, twenty years ago and became
Speaker 1: really integrated into my brand. And then I became. And
Speaker 1: then Natalie Portman was going to college with my upstairs neighbor.
Speaker 1: They were in college together. He was his name is Zeke.
Speaker 1: We were di Zse on Spring Street, Zekenzette, and she said, like,
Speaker 1: my young my friend, I grew up with these making
Speaker 1: dresses and she had her first, like Star Wars movie
Speaker 1: coming out and it was after nine eleven and I
Speaker 1: had made this dress called the Empire State Dress, and
Speaker 1: she wore this dress. She came to the studio, I
Speaker 1: met her, we fit this dress, and it was like
Speaker 1: one of those moments where um, and this is pre
Speaker 1: internet were like print just picked up on this moment.
Speaker 1: She had written like I Love New York on her
Speaker 1: arm wearing this dress that was kind of old Hollywood,
Speaker 1: was very herd. It's very like kind of felt feels
Speaker 1: very MGM, Judy Garland and New York and it was graphic,
Speaker 1: but it was like I remember the next morning it
Speaker 1: was like on the cover of like the Daily News,
Speaker 1: the New York Post, like I think, like on the
Speaker 1: back cover page of like the New York Times, and
Speaker 1: it was like that moment like whoa, the image of
Speaker 1: this dress translated and Natalie and all that that whole vibe. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was like a whole culmination. I don't know, Like
Speaker 1: I grew up three blocks from my really close friend
Speaker 1: Claire Danes, and I was making her dresses. So it
Speaker 1: was like a young Hollywood naturally, like pre stylists in
Speaker 1: an industry, the actress is really and the models really
Speaker 1: were my champions that built built me, you know, and
Speaker 1: then it became more of an industry, that whole thing,
Speaker 1: and I watched it form. I mean, you know, when
Speaker 1: I first red go out to Hollywood, it was like
Speaker 1: direct with celebrities. Then the stylists started coming into place,
Speaker 1: and then they kind of became celebrities themselves and really
Speaker 1: amazing thing to kind of watch. The one thing is is,
Speaker 1: you know, fashion brand started to realize the power of
Speaker 1: the red carpet and really strong, I mean our money
Speaker 1: as a brand and company had been doing it for years.
Speaker 1: They had that game down and owned it forever, but
Speaker 1: other people realized, like the reach because when I started,
Speaker 1: like dressing celebrities was almost a faux pa in fashion,
Speaker 1: Like it was seemed as not having celebrities that your
Speaker 1: fashion show or even the idea of like a socialite
Speaker 1: or social was like a no no or. It was
Speaker 1: like an old thing from the seventies. And I was
Speaker 1: just like breaking all these rules and taking the hits
Speaker 1: for breaking the rules, but knowing like this was like
Speaker 1: just instinctually, this is like the future. I also didn't
Speaker 1: have like marketing budget. This was like how we built
Speaker 1: our name and brand, and at the same time kind
Speaker 1: of weirdly became and was kind of poised for it
Speaker 1: and became kind of a celebrity myself in that time
Speaker 1: period with like the US weekly's and you know, and
Speaker 1: I just rode this. I mean I had no idea,
Speaker 1: you know, I was just on this ride, and you know,
Speaker 1: took hits, messed up a lot, uh, but you know
Speaker 1: I came out okay. I think messing up is the
Speaker 1: best fun. I think as the process of happiness. You
Speaker 1: sound like a very happy individual because of those mess ups,
Speaker 1: because you made shipped up. And what happens if you
Speaker 1: don't make stuff up? Yeah, you mess stuff up. You
Speaker 1: also take a lot of you know, you become a
Speaker 1: target of course, you know, and I was really young,
Speaker 1: so it was like, you know, it was really natural,
Speaker 1: and it was really ambitious and also you know, had
Speaker 1: a lot of energy, and I think that was a
Speaker 1: lot for people and they didn't like it. But enough
Speaker 1: say lovey, you grow into it. And for my third course,
Speaker 1: Zack shares some of his visions for the future of
Speaker 1: the fashion industry. I think it's really interesting also that
Speaker 1: I and I sensed this because you wrote a cookbook
Speaker 1: Cookie with Zach and I mean I listened to your
Speaker 1: playlists and it's like it's one of the best play
Speaker 1: I mean, Bobby Darren, Judy good, come on, Louis Prima.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like restorative, right, You're just standing over there,
Speaker 1: you're listening to music. There's no way you can't have
Speaker 1: a happy smile on your face listening to Louis Prima
Speaker 1: and making a bowl of like yea spaghetti. I mean,
Speaker 1: come on, but I mean, it's what what is better
Speaker 1: than that? And I think that a lot of what
Speaker 1: I get from you is this, this is always going
Speaker 1: back to like what it was that made you happy,
Speaker 1: and that's what you like sort of grew up. You're
Speaker 1: sort of emulating what you did, you know in when
Speaker 1: your parents cooking and working and painting, and it's there's
Speaker 1: nothing's really changed. It's it that how do we change
Speaker 1: and what do we want to look like? What do
Speaker 1: you want to look like in the next twenty years?
Speaker 1: Is because I always think it's the same. It's like
Speaker 1: you just got like, God, I don't want to be
Speaker 1: I'm speaking to myself. I want to be less of
Speaker 1: an asshole, right, yeah, I mean me, what do I want?
Speaker 1: I want to make less waste, like I think about
Speaker 1: like I I you know, I want to put things
Speaker 1: out that you know, have longer meaning to them, right,
Speaker 1: Like a lot of fashion was about there's a level
Speaker 1: of just inherently of an access in in the fashion industry,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't have to be that way. I want
Speaker 1: to teach people how to make their own clothing, and like,
Speaker 1: I think that's really interesting and part of like a
Speaker 1: movement of a movement that's happening just in way like
Speaker 1: people cook at home and like this time during COVID,
Speaker 1: like people learned how to cook or you know, and
Speaker 1: then what it takes to do it well and and
Speaker 1: the process. I think that is something that I look
Speaker 1: to also, taking fashion outside of a um kind of
Speaker 1: just functionality, wearability or status place and maybe relook at
Speaker 1: it how it can be treated in a different level
Speaker 1: of respective technique really is an art form in a
Speaker 1: different way something interesting to me. How it can storytell
Speaker 1: is interesting to me. I mean, I also like mentoring
Speaker 1: young people. I mean that's a big part of what
Speaker 1: I just do. And I'm I love producing and I'm
Speaker 1: like kind of like this like quiet executive producer and
Speaker 1: a lot of entertainment stuff and film stuff, but also
Speaker 1: just like in friends in their career that span from
Speaker 1: like young chefs that are starting up, two people in fashion,
Speaker 1: two actors. So I mean, I think in the end
Speaker 1: of the day, you know, I want to be able
Speaker 1: to get behind putting teams together and kind of be
Speaker 1: like a creative producer. And I'm excited about that and
Speaker 1: what that role looks like, going back to singing in
Speaker 1: the Rain and MGM, like at a studio. Um, I'm excited.
Speaker 1: You know, I'd be very interested to be in a
Speaker 1: role like Vincent Minnelli was at MGM and just be
Speaker 1: able to craft and fine tune. So that you can
Speaker 1: take people and transport them for that time because you
Speaker 1: never know, like that spark and when somebody, a young person,
Speaker 1: an adult, any age person sees something like besides giving
Speaker 1: them just joint entertainment like that can begin their own
Speaker 1: creative journey. And I'm here just to promote people's own creativity.
Speaker 1: And I think what you're saying is a lot to
Speaker 1: do with like legacy when you mentioned twice. You mentioned
Speaker 1: Blontiago first when we opened, but Blontiaga you talk about
Speaker 1: no waste in a legacy. You're mentioning him. Him Now
Speaker 1: it's a hundred years from you know, I don't know
Speaker 1: how many years ago, probably eighty a hundred years ago,
Speaker 1: and his stuff is so this stuff is this stuff
Speaker 1: Blontiago is So it's like it's like Earth, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Like it's like it's like it's not anything, but it's
Speaker 1: a person, but that person. Yeah. I like stuff that
Speaker 1: it's like integral form. I mean, I'm really into form.
Speaker 1: I like cut, like shape and form at the end,
Speaker 1: and clothing like what turns me on is like I
Speaker 1: don't need I mean, embroidery is great, it's fun. Surface
Speaker 1: Like I'm really like I get really turned on by
Speaker 1: things that have that natural visceral form like a brand
Speaker 1: CUZI yeah, it's like it's sexy and I'm like whoa,
Speaker 1: you know, And I can get that same way when
Speaker 1: I look at like a Naka Shamaya table like that,
Speaker 1: you know. I don't know. Maybe that's why people are
Speaker 1: drawn to like wabi sabby stuff. It has that like
Speaker 1: broken form, it's on, it's natural, it's imperfect, but it's perfect.
Speaker 1: And then things that do have that perfect form to them,
Speaker 1: you know, or or or in sync and sacred geometry
Speaker 1: to the body. That's interesting to me. Who is one
Speaker 1: who is in fashion a very specific question? Who who
Speaker 1: is someone as um a designer right now? Who is
Speaker 1: soilhouetting the human body in ways that no one has
Speaker 1: done before? Great question? Um, not many right now, not
Speaker 1: but in the use in past as Adina Laiyah really
Speaker 1: understood the human body. I mean he's one of the
Speaker 1: last great creators of of a time period. I mean
Speaker 1: he really understood how to cut clothing and understood power
Speaker 1: and femininity, flirtation like a lot of different human humor
Speaker 1: or even um, but very so well executed and precise.
Speaker 1: That was really real, right, now, I would say that
Speaker 1: in fashion, what's interesting is there's a whole expression of
Speaker 1: what I would call like a kind of cultural collage, right,
Speaker 1: And that's kind of in reflection in a sense to
Speaker 1: like the surface or communication of social media today, right,
Speaker 1: and how multiple images and references put together. And the
Speaker 1: person that I think most interestingly is kind of recycling
Speaker 1: all of that are putting that together in an expressive poetry.
Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm using the word poetry here is
Speaker 1: a guy? Is a guy actually who's the designer of
Speaker 1: Baludciaga right now? Demna, Like it just has so many
Speaker 1: references and there's abstraction to it. People are surprised whenever
Speaker 1: I say that. But it's so well executed that I
Speaker 1: gotta give props. And they're building the brand smartly. That's it,
Speaker 1: you know. And it's enchanted high fashion and it's enchanted
Speaker 1: like the street too, And I think that's a pretty
Speaker 1: cool place. We're not living in a romantic place in
Speaker 1: fashion right now. We're not living in a classical place
Speaker 1: in fashion. I think the industry of fashion right now,
Speaker 1: like everybody, because it's been shaken, they're like finding themselves
Speaker 1: and that's kind of fun to have a little bit
Speaker 1: of perspective right now, to be like seeing what's happening
Speaker 1: in the playing field and then knowing when to like
Speaker 1: dive in with like twenty years of this experience. You're
Speaker 1: very You're very accute. And I have a good friend,
Speaker 1: Mickey Direct, so I've known for the years, and I
Speaker 1: meet him for coffee. I see him at sant Rose
Speaker 1: all the time. And I said, what the hell happened?
Speaker 1: He goes, I don't know. I can't even tell you myself.
Speaker 1: It's all screwed up. I mean, this is a guy
Speaker 1: like that. And then did he said, look at you
Speaker 1: like he said, well, here's the reason. What are you wearing?
Speaker 1: And I tell him what I'm wasting. Well, that's the problem,
Speaker 1: because you're wearing seventeen people. You're wearing this guy, that guy,
Speaker 1: I said, but is it that good? Don't you don't
Speaker 1: you want someone to create for themselves a little uh,
Speaker 1: you know, motif, a story, and you don't just want
Speaker 1: to wear someone you don't want a banner like says
Speaker 1: I'm just one person, right, And he said yes and no, yes,
Speaker 1: And you know he's right, he said yes and no.
Speaker 1: He said, brands can't drive unless you get enough of
Speaker 1: them to be sold on a layup level, and then
Speaker 1: the quality and all that intricacy comes into it in
Speaker 1: the price. And that said, but you need to have standards,
Speaker 1: and he said that's why it's it's so fractured. And
Speaker 1: I didn't understand it until he Authenticity was essential, right,
Speaker 1: I mean that said, it has to have like real it.
Speaker 1: It has to be pretty real and authentic like the
Speaker 1: consumer today, you know, the kids who are doing you know,
Speaker 1: the street style. It has to be very real. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, if I thought how I'm dressing today from
Speaker 1: when I had my company going for so long, it's
Speaker 1: like night and day. Like I like, all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I'm into like casual clothing and I'm like really into it.
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, like wow, when I start making clothing again,
Speaker 1: like on a larger scale, not just one of a
Speaker 1: kind pieces, Like is that going to be incorporated into that?
Speaker 1: Like do I really feel right about that? Like do
Speaker 1: I think that's elegant anymore? Maybe not, but that's really good.
Speaker 1: Like that's through real life experiences, and it's like how
Speaker 1: do I transition and communicate that as a designer through
Speaker 1: my own life? Experiences into the work into my consumer
Speaker 1: because they're on this ernie with me. You're really ready though.
Speaker 1: You had so much success early on, and now you
Speaker 1: have this whole giant chunk of time and you've so
Speaker 1: inter mingled with all this incredible history and wisdom and
Speaker 1: historical events around fashion that you're gonna like bring something
Speaker 1: forth that is very special. You might reinvent the Chino
Speaker 1: in a way that no one's done it before. You
Speaker 1: never know. I wear a casual Wayne one night. It's
Speaker 1: not the pandemic. It's not the bandeck. We all got lazy.
Speaker 1: That's why we weren't casual. But I went casual. But
Speaker 1: I still want to throw a jacket on. But I
Speaker 1: went casually because the casual became such so well made,
Speaker 1: so well done. You could have sophisticated cuts in a
Speaker 1: casual manner so they fit properly. It wasn't a boxy shirt.
Speaker 1: It was like cool. Now it's like it fits. It's
Speaker 1: like James person number one, my my hang, everyone like
Speaker 1: tons fantastic. You know. It's like I started around the
Speaker 1: same time, like I always saw it. I thought like
Speaker 1: this is like a little bit expensive for what I
Speaker 1: k it is and then I started, I like went
Speaker 1: to Malibu for three months and I was like, I
Speaker 1: need a new work for here, and it's amazing and
Speaker 1: sun Spell right old sun Spell so miraculous, like where
Speaker 1: you've been, We've always been here, you just found us.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm wearing. That's what I were on top,
Speaker 1: and that's what I'm wearing on the bottom. That's very funny,
Speaker 1: an anti signage of who you are, and those swishes
Speaker 1: or any of that stuff, like clothes that are connected
Speaker 1: to you, they're not branding someone else. I think so
Speaker 1: for me right now, it's like there's a sense of
Speaker 1: like elegant, a little bit of an interesting cut, comfortable,
Speaker 1: and it's like what clothing should do where it gives
Speaker 1: the confidence where you could enter anywhere. And for my
Speaker 1: fourth and final course, Zach tells me about the simple
Speaker 1: and elegant way that he's been cooking lately. So it
Speaker 1: sort of sounds like if you would have created dish
Speaker 1: around that you're cooking. What are you cooking? That's like
Speaker 1: what you're airing and dressing. Now I know you're big cook. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's I love that kind of thinking. What would I
Speaker 1: be cooking? Think about it, I think would be like
Speaker 1: a really simple fish, like real, like high quality. I've
Speaker 1: been cooking a lot of sardines because they're really healthy
Speaker 1: and I just love I do it just like you know,
Speaker 1: in a simple olive oil and and and di young
Speaker 1: you know, and fresh herbs and roll them around and
Speaker 1: then cook them real fast. Oh my gosh. You know
Speaker 1: some great real garden tomatoes cooked with that as well.
Speaker 1: I've been also doing like carrots that I just peel,
Speaker 1: break them up and then just really basically steam them
Speaker 1: and reduced down in a little doshi and add a
Speaker 1: little coom in at the end. I mean, it's just simple,
Speaker 1: but it's perfect. But it's it's what you said is
Speaker 1: Mediterranean Global, which I think if you if you put
Speaker 1: it in the in your machine or put it in
Speaker 1: a beak or and shook it up, you have a
Speaker 1: great new line of clothes. If you just said, with
Speaker 1: my my new line is Mediterranting Global. Yeah, deal with it.
Speaker 1: Deal with that right exactly, mediterranting Global. Right. Healthy, trying
Speaker 1: to eat really healthy, but also you got you got
Speaker 1: your pootin estcu in there from your childhood. You know,
Speaker 1: you have to get the sardine that stinky. That's stinky exactly,
Speaker 1: some dashi in there that oh mommy, you know that
Speaker 1: fish sauce gotta be there because Chinatown. Do you have
Speaker 1: a podcast? You cook? You cook on our website? You cook?
Speaker 1: I don't. I mean, man, I want to tell you
Speaker 1: just like one or two minute tips from you. I would,
Speaker 1: I think would be amazing. I mean, I love it.
Speaker 1: This is what I do, and I think about, you know,
Speaker 1: different ways to do this all the time. But I
Speaker 1: you know, it's like adventurous. I mean right now, because
Speaker 1: I'm on such a personal health kick, that becomes a
Speaker 1: little bit more limiting, but it's still fun. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it's okay, I mean to me. Yeah, I worked with
Speaker 1: Ian Schraeger for twenty years. I worked in Royalton and
Speaker 1: all these places I worked with fashion and food where
Speaker 1: twenty years apart. I can tell you that, like the
Speaker 1: be stress scene is just came back, and what's gonna
Speaker 1: happen is is fashion is going to be SENSI sensitive
Speaker 1: to that. So it's very they move and they move
Speaker 1: lockstep fashion and food last years ahead of everybody else.
Speaker 1: It's amazing. It's just it's almost like you can oh,
Speaker 1: bestros coming back and what are we gonna have? Fashion
Speaker 1: is gonna like mimic what we would wait to be straight?
Speaker 1: Is this complete sensibility that travels with you in every
Speaker 1: twenty years, something changes and it changes not only in
Speaker 1: fashion and are but definitely food. Because I was in
Speaker 1: food and fashion, I was always say so. I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: that of course they're gonna like this. I also think
Speaker 1: there's so many of these like young chefs right now
Speaker 1: that are really having fun and it's cool to watch,
Speaker 1: like new models, people that you know, cooking clubs. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's just this guy like Jonathan to his
Speaker 1: peth is kind of cool to be watching right now.
Speaker 1: You know, there's just different young guys that are like
Speaker 1: you know, small micro of restaurants. Right it's like authentic,
Speaker 1: it's authentic, it's real and this is like what people
Speaker 1: want and how you translate that, you know, to a
Speaker 1: larger scale. My advice to the young people like take
Speaker 1: your time, Like creativity is a lifelong pursuit and it's
Speaker 1: the process. Is the process that's the happiness. And you know,
Speaker 1: the hedge funds brought in unicorns, but creativity, but creativity,
Speaker 1: you know, is about being a long distance runner, because
Speaker 1: if you nurture it right, like a good garden, it's
Speaker 1: gonna last. It's gonna outlive you, Zach. I. I can't
Speaker 1: wait to see what the next twenty years bringing. I
Speaker 1: can't wait to see the next two months. I hope
Speaker 1: I see you in a couple of months of the
Speaker 1: next City Harvest event. And I'm looking forward to breaking
Speaker 1: some bread with you because it seems I'm hungry right
Speaker 1: now at two o'clock and I haven't had lunch yet.
Speaker 1: You've got to come over for dinner sometime. Thanks very
Speaker 1: much for listening to Four Courses with Jeffreys, carrying a
Speaker 1: production of I heart Rate and Corner Table Entertainment. Four
Speaker 1: Courses is created by Jeffrey Zecharion, Margaret Zacarion, Jared Keller,
Speaker 1: and Tara Helper. Our executive producer is Christopher Hesiotis. Four
Speaker 1: Courses is produced by Jonathan Hawes Dressler. Our research is
Speaker 1: conducted by Jesselyn Shields. This episode was engineered by Molly
Speaker 1: Swanson and Josh Goovier and edited and mixed by Joe Tisdel.
Speaker 1: Our talent booking is by Pamela Bauer at Dogtown Talent.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts, from my Heart Radio, visit the I
Speaker 1: height Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.