1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I don't welcome to 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:09,479 Speaker 1: stuff I've never told you production of I Heart Radio. 3 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 1: So I feel like I have asked you this before, 4 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: and if so, you'll have to forgive me listeners. And Samantha, Um, 5 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: but what are your thoughts on immortality? I don't think 6 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: you've asked me this before because that is a very 7 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 1: broad in general question. Who knows a lot of conversations, Yes, 8 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: we have off and on my when it comes to immortality. 9 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. I have no thoughts other than it's not real, 10 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: So why are we talking about it. My own set, 11 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: my own sad take on death and immortality is that 12 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: I assumed I would have been dead of flour. I 13 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: would be dead before fifty five. And I think it's 14 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: just because of all the things that I've gone through 15 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: as a kid that it didn't make sense. But I 16 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: would extend past a certain time. I do have a 17 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 1: small fear of growing old. Actually have a lot of 18 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: fears in growing older, and as my body feels like 19 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 1: it's slowly giving out is getting worse, those little fears 20 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: and trying to figure out what to do just because 21 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: I don't want to go to like revert back to 22 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: being dependent on someone. And then, of course you and 23 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: I talked about the fact that if we don't have children, 24 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: who's gonna look after us, who's gonna care for us? 25 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: And what's gonna happen we can't care for ourselves. So 26 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: those are my thoughts on life and death and immortality. 27 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: I don't live forever because that sounds miserable, especially with 28 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: some of the things that have happened. Being a depressive, 29 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: it makes me sad to think that I would have 30 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: to be depressed with the rest of my life seeing 31 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: some of the bad things that have happened. I am 32 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: a pessimist, so it doesn't help. True, true, Yeah, I 33 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: mean it's interesting because I've always felt that way too. 34 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: Of like, immortality doesn't appeal to me unless people around 35 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: me that I cared about were and also that I 36 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: was in good like mental and physical condition. Um, even then, 37 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: it just sounds like eventually you'd get pretty bored. But 38 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I was telling you the 39 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: other day, it's like this Star Wars is gonna be 40 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: coming out when I die, And I never stopped true 41 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: that A care for you. Also as of late, like 42 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 1: the more we talked about the apocalypse and thinking if 43 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,679 Speaker 1: it happens sooner the later, Oh lord, I don't know 44 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: if I want to be alive through that. That's yeah. Yeah, 45 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: we're starting out really griham with this one. Yeah, sure, 46 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: are sure are We're certainly not the only people who 47 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: have been talking about this and thinking about this and 48 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: as our technology shifts, because has been a part of 49 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: our cultural narrative forever, like when we talk about any 50 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: type of creature like vampires, and that's always like one 51 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: of the reasons I love what we do in the 52 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: shadows as you get to see how um wonky they are, 53 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: out of touch they are with their immortality. But as 54 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: as technology has advanced, people are legitimately talking about ways 55 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: to slow down or stop aging and or achieve immortality. 56 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,399 Speaker 1: And I know Jeff Bezos was just in the news 57 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: for investing in something looking into this um and there 58 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: there's been a lot of movies about it, for sure. 59 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: If for anybody who's already like preemptively angry, that of 60 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: the language I used around that abaultics stopping aging. We'll 61 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: get to that. We'll get to that a second. But um, 62 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: as we are are moving into you listeners, know, we 63 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: love some Halloween, we love the season of fall and 64 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: the scary movies and spooky things. And as we're moving 65 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: into that, this is sort of a lower key tie 66 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: in because it's just this concept we've been talking about 67 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: for a couple of months now about dying to be 68 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: young and our cultural just real fascination and occupation with 69 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,039 Speaker 1: being young and where did that come from and some 70 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: of the extremes that it has gone to. So to 71 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: start out with, we're gonna be talking about media because, 72 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: as we've talked about before, in in our popular media 73 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 1: and movies and TV, as a woman, it's a joke, 74 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: it's a running joke that you're dead after thirty, like 75 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: that's your career is over. Um. And the average age 76 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,799 Speaker 1: of a Hollywood Stars female UM is thirty four, whereas 77 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 1: for a man it is forty six. So you can 78 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: already see that's ten your gap. Yes, yes, absolutely, oh 79 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,799 Speaker 1: yeah so as in fact, an i AMDB study reported 80 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,799 Speaker 1: on by Washington Post found that among twenty year old actors, 81 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: women get eight percent of the leading roles. By age thirty, 82 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: women only get of the leading roles, and past age forty, 83 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: men claim eight of the leading roles while women only 84 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: get twenty percent and have all these roles for women 85 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 1: to go to those thirty three any younger and men 86 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: overall just have way more roles available to them, and 87 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: we've seen that constantly. Yeah, I think I've told this 88 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 1: story before, but I remember so clearly watching I think 89 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: I was too young to be watching it, but I 90 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: was watching Entrapment and I turned to my friend and 91 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: I was like, why does she want to be with 92 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: Sean Connery? Question? But that being said, I know that 93 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 1: people can have age gaps and relationships it would be great, 94 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: but as a child, it just did not. I was like, 95 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: I don't understand this, And I think what we're talking 96 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: about here is not just that fact, but that it 97 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: is more acceptable to see you very young women with 98 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: older men to be more like yeah, absolutely normal, um 99 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: to the point that it reflects real life Leonardo DiCaprio 100 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 1: and everybody kind of just accepts it. Yeah, there's a 101 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: factor of like, uh what after a while, But in 102 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: the actuality was like, yeah, okay, obviously when it is 103 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: more acceptable than a woman doing that, because she is right, 104 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: And we've talked about that a lot before, about that 105 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: double standard of for men it's seen as like, oh, 106 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: props to you, You've got a young lady interested in you, 107 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: young lady, whereas for women, it's like she's praying upon 108 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: this young man and it must be for nefarious reasons, right, Yeah, 109 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: those are generalizations and stereotypes, but it's definitely more acceptable 110 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: for an older man to be with a younger woman 111 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: then vice versa. And so this whole, like all these 112 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: ideas around women in age in Hollywood, has been a 113 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: topic of conversation, especially among female celebrities who has spoken 114 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: out about this. Maggie Smith, Charlie's They're On, Sara, Jessica Parker, 115 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: Helen Mire, and Mel Street, Kate Lynchet, so many mostly 116 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: white women in this context. But a lot of it 117 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: is happening like now and within recent years. It's pretty 118 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: new in terms of how many women have spoken up 119 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: about it. And I did want to give some brief 120 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: like examples that were just top of mind for me, 121 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: because this is an idea that we see so often. 122 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: And one is um from Black Swan, which I watched recently, 123 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: where Winona Writer is this ballet dancer who's been like 124 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,559 Speaker 1: head of the ballet. She's made a lot of money 125 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: for this troop, this huge New York troop, but then 126 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: all the other ballet danswers are kind of talking about 127 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: her behind her back and saying like, oh, she's dead, 128 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: like she's a dancing corpse, like she's so old. And 129 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: then Wanona Writer's character obviously being upset about this and 130 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: furious that she's given so much of herself to this company, 131 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: and then he just kind of unceremoniously to her away 132 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: when she gets older and replace her with Natalie Portman. 133 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: And even in terms of like the romance kind of 134 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: dynamic between the male leader of the ballet and an 135 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: own writer and then Natalie Portman. But that always stuck 136 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: with me. And Natalie Portman's character has that see where 137 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: she's like, oh, poor death um, like obviously feeling sympathy 138 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: and like seeing that happened with her mom when she 139 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: got pregnant, and feeling like I one day I will 140 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: be thrown away too. But yeah, that is always stuck 141 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 1: with me because it's like, like I said, it is 142 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 1: a running joke. We all know this joke and this idea, 143 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: and there are certain aspects that I get, like it's 144 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: weird because I understand that, you know, younger people in 145 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: general can do more athletic things. I don't know, but 146 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: still like that's really terrible to just be like, well, 147 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: you're done and you'll never work again. So another example, 148 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: I've never actually seen Black Swant, I need to go 149 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: back to it. But another exam a bowl would be 150 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: of course, our one of our episodes, First Wives Club. 151 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: I mean that is the ultimate story of being replaced 152 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: by younger women, as each one of the characters show, 153 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: whether it's Sarah Jessica Parker's character who is in competition 154 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: with Bette Midler, or even the therapist with Diane Keaton's 155 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: character you know who gets gets ran over her. And 156 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: then you've got the Goldie Hawn character, which she's replaced 157 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: by the sixteen year old actress because she I think 158 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: she's in her thirties. In this I'm pretty sure she 159 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: comments directly on what we're talking about and talking about 160 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: being replaced, and to the point that she plays the 161 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: hagmother who dies essentially an upcoming movie and heard thinking 162 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: she's coming in for the younger character and being like, whoops, 163 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: just kidding um, And so she retires out of film 164 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: to go onto Broadway because it's more acceptable for mature 165 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 1: women to be a part of. Essentially, Yeah, there are 166 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: so many things in that storyline on it altogether, just 167 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: talking about how women are said to pasture at a 168 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: certain age as if they are no longer of any purpose. 169 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: And we think about that with like menopause again, like 170 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: whether or not we're able to breed essentially, to put 171 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: it very bluntly, and or what our value is. And 172 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: when it comes to Hollywood, I'm sure and we have 173 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: seen it being even harsher narratives. But you know, in 174 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: everyday life people talk about that too, whether it's the 175 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 1: cliche of being left for a younger woman and or 176 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: having to compete with younger women for career or any 177 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,079 Speaker 1: of those status is. You know, it's interesting to see. 178 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: But this movie was definitely one of those like, hey, 179 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: in your face, this is what's happening, right, commented, Right, yeah, 180 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: and we're gonna we're gonna break in break down some 181 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: of that. Um a bit more later about kind of 182 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: this pressure to be invisible as you get older as 183 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: a woman. And then I was thinking about this Amazon 184 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: movie called Neon Demon, which I don't know if you've 185 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: seen that, I have not. Okay, well it was a 186 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: very strange film, but it kind of That's why every 187 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: time I think of it, I feel like it's some 188 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: fever dream that I had. But it's about like models 189 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 1: in Hollywood, And is it L Fanning or Ellie Fanning? 190 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: L Fanning, I don't know, you know who I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, 191 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: she comes into the young model into this world and 192 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: there's a lot of this movie is very up and 193 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: down and bumpy, but there was an interesting commentary on 194 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: the power of beauty and youth for women, and she 195 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: says something about, like, you know what the power she 196 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: feels when she walks into her room and everyone is 197 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: looking at her and feeling jealous of her. Of course, 198 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: these other models that have been in the game longer 199 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,079 Speaker 1: than her don't like that, so they end up spoilers, 200 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: I guess how old is this movie is pretty old? Um, 201 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:50,719 Speaker 1: they end up killing her and eating pieces of her 202 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: body to try to get her youth, including an eyeball. 203 00:11:54,760 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: Was really gruesome. Well okay then, but yeah, that was 204 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: just I did not expect that turn for one, But yeah, 205 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:07,959 Speaker 1: it was another kind of example of this this pressure 206 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: to feel young and kind of that diminishing value of 207 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 1: like they were willing to murder this person to feel 208 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: like they were young and had in their minds more power. 209 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: And then on top of that, songs. We've been seeing 210 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: these songs, and I will say so for the first 211 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: song you picked out, because as you were and I 212 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: were talking about this episode, I told you in my head, 213 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: I can't stop seeing forever young. Also, that makes me 214 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 1: go back to a thirty Rock episode in which is 215 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: Jenna is being she has that same insidence of going 216 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: to a show because she's about to be cast as 217 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: a teenager where probably she's cast as a dying mother 218 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: once again, and she actually says in the line I 219 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: have to die now I'm thirty six, essentially saying that, 220 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: but because she you so in such shock and so 221 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: sad about it that she's taping up her face singing 222 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,319 Speaker 1: forever young and rather trying to make herself look younger 223 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: because he was in that crisis. But that is where 224 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 1: both of those things come into mind. Yes, forever young. 225 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: It's been sick in my head too. What did you know? Good? 226 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: I always thought of that as being like in your heart, 227 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: forever young? But what do I know? And then for me, 228 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: are you old enough? Which is a very creepy song 229 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: which is about this guy basically saying like are you 230 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: old enough to have sex with? But that was recently 231 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: featured in Wellington Paranormal and it has been stuck in 232 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: my head. But there's I mean, there's so many songs 233 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: about that, and right, yes, yes, and kind of like 234 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: a lot of times it is dudes like trying to 235 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: get young girls. And then there are plenty of songs 236 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: about you know that romanticized youth, and we're gonna look 237 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: into that as well. But yeah, that it's very present 238 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: and a lot of our media. I was also thinking 239 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:01,559 Speaker 1: about book because like the Portrait of Dorian Gray, which 240 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: isn't women but kind of again shows this like real 241 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: historical preoccupation we've had with youth, or the old hag 242 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: feeding on the young maiden shop which is in snow white, 243 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: and pretty much every fairy tale features an older woman 244 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: and a younger woman. I don't take that youth, yes, 245 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: which is another way women have been pitted against each 246 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: other in our media. Um, but also if you move 247 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: out of that, like it's a compliment to say you 248 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: look so much younger, and it's one of those kind 249 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: of problematic compliments where what are you really saying and 250 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: what are we holding up with a compliment like that? Um, 251 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: there's this whole idea of like trying to get away 252 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: with it or looking you know, younger. And I was 253 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: thinking about this too in terms of I haven't been 254 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: shopping in am all in a very long time, but 255 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: I mean certainly within the past couple of years. I 256 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: always I still go to the junior section, and it's 257 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: because I feel like that closed their acuter and if 258 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: you go into like the women's section, it's all like 259 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: business clothes. Right, I'm not gonna lie. I've now jumped 260 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: away from the junior's clothing because their size no longer 261 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: makes sense to me, so I'm gonna go over here. 262 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: I think that's why I stay away from things like 263 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: the mall, where you have departments who are very like 264 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: ages in that they separated like that. In places like 265 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: Target where they do have the junior sections, I've seen it, 266 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: but the women's section and the junior section are similar 267 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: enough that it's like, Okay, there's not really the different 268 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: variations to this. I'm good with it. Um. And typically 269 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: it's just all like, hey, here's this one sweater. It 270 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: was like Ponchos season of the Ponchos. So I'm definitely 271 00:15:55,480 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: leaning into quote unquote my age clothed in that I'm 272 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: just rather but I've always dressed like this. There's nothing 273 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: in my wardrobes, I even being younger, that really said 274 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: this is a junior self of it. Like I never 275 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: really wore like jeans, I had holes in it. I 276 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: don't have one accidentally tripped and fell, and I you know, 277 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: like that's why, sure, But like it was never my 278 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: thing because I was always so self conscious that I 279 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: wanted to mute it down as much as possible. So 280 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: just as plain as playing can be is my my 281 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: go to and I still am that way to this day. 282 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: And again, I love cardigans and ponchos, and I feel 283 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: like that's definitely like older leaning, and I'm like, I'm 284 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: cool with that. I will forever wear that. This is 285 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: my this is who I am. Yeah, yeah, I mean 286 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: I do think there's I don't want to make it 287 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: sound like there aren't cute clothes for women who are 288 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: not juniors like older there are, but I feel like 289 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: in a traditional mall department store setting, it's like, oh 290 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: these are It's again like the breakdown of the badana 291 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: and the whore almost where it's like, oh, junior section, cuter, 292 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: cuter things, maybe some cleavage going on, and then like 293 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: business suits. Yeah, you have the dresses that has no 294 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: body shape and it's somehow doubles up to something else 295 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: and you're like what is this because yeah, even in shoes, 296 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 1: I do that, like this is obviously a younger kid 297 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: to stick with this, you know, not this, and it's 298 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: kind of like these are shoes I don't, right, Yeah, 299 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: And that's something I know a lot of my friends 300 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: and I have joked about because I'm really young at heart, 301 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: as they say, and I feel like I get judged 302 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: for liking childish things and a lot of times I'll 303 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: end up in like the boys section because they have 304 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 1: like Superhero shirts or Star Wars shirts and that's what 305 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 1: I like. Um. But then there's this whole idea of 306 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: like age appropriate clothing, which we could break down in 307 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: more seriously, but in terms of what we're talking about now, 308 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: it's like you reach an age and that's just you 309 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:03,919 Speaker 1: have to wear, yeah, a formal, right, blanket, you know 310 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: what they give me? My mum, I've got my Star 311 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: Wars poncho. You know all of a good poncho. I 312 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 1: do too. I have not there's nothing wrong with it, 313 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: but I think we need our options and we need 314 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: to investigate why this is. You know, when it comes 315 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: to also, it's kind of the expense and who gets 316 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: what what is seen as stylish. And we also know 317 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: that we see that as in sizes too, like when 318 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: we talk about celebrities trying to find really nice, fancy 319 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: things and being told we're not going to give you this, 320 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: we're not gonna sponsor to you this, we don't want 321 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: you to wear this type a thing, um, And we 322 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 1: see that agism is a complete thing where we saw 323 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: Millie Bobby Brown got like ripped apart because they were like, 324 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 1: you wearing clothes as too old for you. And it's 325 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: kind of like, I don't understand she's wearing a cute 326 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: suit outfit. Yeah she's sixteen, but she's pulling it off 327 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: and she's coming to a fancy event. M what's what's 328 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: the problem and her right ripped for that. It's not 329 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: only it was sexy, and even them like, we need 330 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: to talk about that standard dress co standard outside of 331 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: this anyway, But all that say is why can't she 332 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: And then having older women who were wearing a little 333 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: bit tighter clothes and a few more things would be like, 334 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 1: that's that's too sexy. You're a mom, You're like does 335 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,360 Speaker 1: that mean? Yeah, it's just another instance of policing women's 336 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 1: bodies and what they wear. And like we'll take we 337 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: being society at large, not me but personally, but any 338 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: opportunity to tear a woman down right um and make 339 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: her feel bad about her body. But yeah, like going 340 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: back to the you know that whole quote of like 341 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: looking good for your age, which is I think also 342 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: problematic in terms of behind your back. They might be 343 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: saying she's too old for that or whatever. You know, 344 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: never ask a woman her age, which really implies that 345 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: it's shameful and embarrassing to get older. And then yeah, 346 00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 1: I was just kind of as you were talking, I 347 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: was kind of thinking about how clothing cycles, so like 348 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: what people might have been wearing in the eighties is 349 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: now popular nineties among younger people, and so it's kind 350 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: of like silly that will police people for this, but 351 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: when when the cycle comes back now, it's cool when 352 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: young people are right. I really kept some of my 353 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: clothes because it has. I'm like, I had that outfit, 354 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: like I picked out specifically, I wore that in junior 355 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: high school, in middle school. Cool cool cool. Yeah. And 356 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 1: I think one of the big things too, as you 357 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,360 Speaker 1: were talking about, you know, being complimented, I I tell 358 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: my age. Obviously I'm very fed everyone knows my age. 359 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:39,879 Speaker 1: I'm turning forty one soon, and it's kind of like, 360 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: oh god, I'm turning these a huge number. And then 361 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: comparing myself and this is really bad on me and 362 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: my own perspective as well as my own biases, was like, 363 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 1: do I look like that forty one year old? Because 364 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't want to look like that like that. 365 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: There's levels of like I need to look younger, and 366 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: I want to tell people my age so they better 367 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: have a right reaction, like myad it's gonna be shocked 368 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: or disbelief because as a way that has to that 369 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: they're like okay, like son of and I just kind 370 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: of walk away. But there is that level as I'm 371 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 1: getting older, like but I don't look like that forty 372 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 1: one year older because I still have the image of 373 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: my mother being forty something when I was so young, 374 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 1: and now I'm like yeah, I look like my mother. 375 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: Obviously I don't because she's very white and I'm not. Uh, 376 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: there's very big differences, but the aging level of like wow, 377 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: it's weird. Yeah, And I think that kind it is. 378 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 1: I think, I think that line of thinking is really 379 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: it is encouraged by our media because I feel like 380 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: I see magazine headlines like that all the time, like 381 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: how did she accomplish this? Look? She looks so young 382 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: and right, I know, like you know, list thirty under thirty. 383 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: When I was researching this, this came up a lot 384 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: of like that's also kind of a troublesome line thinking, 385 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: But we do see it. We see it, and it 386 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: usually is trying to sell something where it's like how 387 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: does she do it with this retina cream? Of course, 388 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,719 Speaker 1: it's the whole thing, you know, going back to it 389 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,400 Speaker 1: is a whole conversation about how we look at youth 390 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:23,640 Speaker 1: and how we treasure that and long for it. Sometimes 391 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: I don't want I wish there's a part of me 392 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: we're like, man, I do wish that I was able 393 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 1: to enjoy my youth in that I have so much 394 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: more confidence now than I did a more ten, fifteen, 395 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: even five years ago. Honestly not really like to ten 396 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: fifteen years ago and really wishing that I could have 397 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: gone back to be like, hey, it's okay, enjoy being 398 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: you instead of constantly being so self conscious that you 399 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: can't you feel awkward in any situation. And that's not 400 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 1: a way to enjoy life. That's the only part in that. Um. 401 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: But Yeah, in the West, the aging is often seen 402 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: as something shameful and to be hidden away and fought 403 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: against instead of being respected, which I'm like, let's get 404 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: back to that. Also, to be fair, some of the 405 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: boomers have not shown that level of I think, which 406 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: we could talk about that later, but like in general, 407 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: respecting age versus yeah, experience being invisible because we're no 408 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: longer relevant. We are elderly are often invisible to us. 409 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 1: And yeah, in the US, specifically in this culture, it's 410 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: kind of gross. Yeah, we don't respect. Of course, respect 411 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: is earned, but there's just that level of like, huh, 412 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: where's that sort of like we want to age that 413 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: means we've come through life okay, ish, we've survived it. Uh. 414 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: And we've long discussed the link between traditional beauty for 415 00:23:53,400 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: women and power, and that's a whole big conversation. Looking young, 416 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: especially when it comes to women, is a big business. 417 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: So many products promising to do away with any signs 418 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: of age. You can get rid of your wrinkles or 419 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 1: race gray hairs, get thinner and look younger, get dimples 420 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 1: that will make you look young to like almost everything. 421 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: When we did our episode of Ridiculous History where we 422 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: were talking about beauty trends, um kind of ridiculous beauty 423 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: trends or dangerous beauty trends of history, almost all of 424 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: them were about looking younger. Right, Oh yeah, absolutely, we're 425 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: looking wider both of those things. And some numbers for you, 426 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: because you know we love some numbers up in here. 427 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: As of two thousand eleven, Americans spent about ten point 428 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 1: four billion dollars on cosmetic surgery. The anti aging industry 429 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: is believed to be worth a hundred and forty billion dollars. 430 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 1: And then a two thousand eighteen study found that over 431 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: fifty percent of women aged eighteen to twenty four survey 432 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: agreed that an anti wrinkle treatment was essential to their 433 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: beauty regiment. I'm like, I don't think I have any 434 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: of those. I'm trying to think about it. Mine was 435 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: all about acting because I still get them. I got 436 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: one between with people right here. I'm like, I'm supposed 437 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: to be forty. This is not supposed to be an 438 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,640 Speaker 1: issue anymore. It's okay. And this was a from twenty 439 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: percent who said the same thing in two thousand twelve 440 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,719 Speaker 1: and searches for retinal I believed anti Asian ingredient doubled 441 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty. Not gonna lie kind of us that 442 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: from my under eyes because I was like, WHOA, I 443 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: was like tired. Yeah, I've definitely tried products for my 444 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: under eyes. It's a minor very dark and baggy, and 445 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: that is because I don't sleep very well, among things. 446 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: But and yes, it's just disclaimer. We're not really coming 447 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,360 Speaker 1: out against any of these things per se, but more 448 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: against the societal pressure that makes people, and in this 449 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: context mostly women feel like they have to do these 450 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: things that it has to do with their worth, and 451 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,199 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of fear around it, like 452 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 1: every day your skin is getting worse. I saw this. 453 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: I think it must have been in two thousand one 454 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: or two thousand two interview with oh, what's her name? 455 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: Naomi Watts, and she was saying, you know, my skin 456 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: The way I keep it this way is I put 457 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: on sound screen every day and ever since then, I 458 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 1: put on sun scary owns every day on my face. Um. 459 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 1: But that was like the power of it, because I 460 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: was like, what if if I if I mess it 461 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: up now, it'll be too late later. And yeah, this 462 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: does start at a young age, because I must have 463 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: been like, I don't know, fourteen, thirteen or fourteen. And 464 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: I saw that interview, and I remember when I was 465 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: in high school, this really traditionally pretty girl who was 466 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: like a year older than me. She was talking about 467 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: her anti wrinkle regimen that she was doing, and I 468 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:01,959 Speaker 1: was I looked at her, like, oh my gosh, am 469 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: I supposed to be doing that already. And a lot 470 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 1: of anti wrinkle commercials do use young women that definitely 471 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: don't have wrinkles anywhere. If they do, they're airbushed out 472 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 1: or like not that many, right, And I find this interesting. 473 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: I think the other big problem is not we're not 474 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: saying that these things are awful or that you know, 475 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 1: the devil or anything. What we're saying is we see 476 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: this as a marketing racket that is completely aimed at women. 477 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: And if this is truly for their benefit, women's benefit. 478 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: Why the hell is this so damn expensive? That's the 479 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: other part. I'm like, what is happening? And then the 480 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: links and the way we're ruining the environment to get 481 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:43,120 Speaker 1: to some of those things also really really problematic. Um 482 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: and it's all about that capitalism. Yeah, and we know this, 483 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 1: and I think that's part of the problem. Is it's 484 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: not so bad to want to try things that are 485 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: good for your skin or what you don't want to 486 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: do things preventatively whatever. I'm being self conscious and making 487 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: you feel good about yourself, that's one thing. But doing 488 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: it at what cost is the conversation as well as 489 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: who is benefiting it and why aren't we looking closer? 490 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: That's and of course we make fun of older women 491 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: who do it too, that they're pathetic and not fooling anyone, 492 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: despite the fact that we live in a society that 493 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: penalizes age and our further penalizing women for trying to 494 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: fit into that society that was created to go against 495 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: right essentially, so trying to fit into that narrative, trying 496 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: to make it a situation or having you know, uh, 497 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: the audacity to change something that they don't really find 498 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: uplifting for themselves. That's whole other conversation too. Why can't 499 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: we let it be? Yeah? And I think this has 500 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: been a big It's been something people have been discussing 501 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: a lot around um women and cosmetic surgery and all 502 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: of this stuff we're talking about. We could unpack further 503 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: in other episodes. But how like we're saying the joke 504 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: is your debt at thirty like the media ages thirty 505 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: three or whatever. And then and yet we make fun 506 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: of actresses who get cosmetic surgery to look younger when 507 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: that's their career and their job, and that is a problem. 508 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: It's a problem that that's true. But I think it's 509 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: very telling that we are making fun of people who 510 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 1: are trying to not lose their job essentially in a 511 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: really sexist, patriarchal, agist system, right, and also just knowing 512 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: that for a lot, And we can talk about the 513 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: Korean beauty standards, which is just which is a whole 514 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: different conversation in itself. That happens starts at a very 515 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: young age and being molded essentially into what is thought 516 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: of as the perfect body, the perfect face, the perfect 517 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: skin tone, like all of these things. It's such an 518 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: oh yeah, overwhelming sense of like what what are we 519 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: supposed to be doing? And for those who aren't within 520 00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: that narrative, within that frame of thinking and or seeing looking, 521 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: what happens to those people completely dismissed and I'm not 522 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: seeing Yeah, Yeah, it's yeah, like we said, it starts 523 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: at such a young age and you really get inundated 524 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: with it and internalized it. I know there's been studies 525 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: that found by like the age of four, for young girls, 526 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: they're like wrinkles are bad, age is bad um and 527 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: a lot of other troubling beauty standards as well, just 528 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: so young we pick up on it. And like, going 529 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: back to your point when it comes to this whole 530 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: conversation of yeah, we want women to do what they 531 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 1: want to look to feel good about themselves or something 532 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: they might just enjoy. It's like when we talked about 533 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: in UM taking self care and you know, spa days. 534 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: That might really be your thing, but there is a 535 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: financial and time cost. And also this whole what we're 536 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: really talking about is the demonizing of age and particularly 537 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: for women. And also yeah, it's just that pressure, the 538 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: pressure to do it, like if you want to do it, 539 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: you know good for you, but it's I think a 540 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: lot of us feel like we have to do it, 541 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: and there is this kind of like a fear based 542 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: decision of oh no, my my value is going down. 543 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: I need to save up money and go get this 544 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: and go do this, and just feeling bad about yourself, 545 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: which I hate. Yeah. Um. And then when we look 546 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: at sexual assault and grooming, there so many instances like 547 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier, of older famous men grooming 548 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: younger often underage young women. Um. And there are even 549 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: pieces of media, in all kinds of media, directly about 550 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: that whole thing. Several recent studies have looked into why 551 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: growing numbers of young women are seeking cosmetic surgeries, with 552 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: one of the dominant theories being asked to do with 553 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: social media filters. So basically, you want to look as 554 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: airbrushed as your social media filter looks. You want to 555 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: match that. Um. But also obviously the constant bombardment of 556 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: messaging in our media. Again, we can unpack all of 557 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: the right and yeah, it's definitely grown. Maybe also accessibility 558 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: has grown. That needs to be part of that conversation too. Uh, 559 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: But it's always been there where if you think about 560 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: the women who literally went through plastic surgery to look 561 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: like Barbie, and that was before social media. She was 562 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: already famous because that was her whole stint. And then 563 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: there's been several more that follows suit and they're big influencers. 564 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: And that's kind of that other conversations the level of 565 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: what we look at as who are influencers, and it's 566 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: typically everything about looks. So it seems to me, especially 567 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: when it comes to women or non binary and it's 568 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: one thing to love makeup and do makeup that's gorgeous. 569 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: I really wish people could teach me how to do 570 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: do it well because I'm not one of those people think, well, 571 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: my niece is really good at it. She's actually a 572 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: makeup artist, and like, go ahead, do your things. I 573 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: don't know what this means, right, and like maybe I 574 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: need your help, But that's something different than that. That's 575 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: the influence and trying to get that perfect standard. And yes, 576 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,239 Speaker 1: some of these what's we need to come back to 577 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: Annie is decide that a lot of these filters are 578 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: not made for women of color. Many times that I've 579 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: put it on my face and it did nothing, I 580 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: was like, what is this? And the fact of the 581 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: matter is because it's not for women of color, and 582 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: it doesn't do which is probably a good thing. Honestly, 583 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know. It looks yeah, I don't know. 584 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: There's many times when I did the filters like why why, 585 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: So it's probably a good thing. But many times when 586 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: there was nothing, I was like, oh, I'm too brown 587 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: for this. Interesting, will come back to that. Uh So. 588 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: Data from Okay cupids suggests, not surprisingly, that men seek 589 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: out slightly younger women when they may be the first 590 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: time women slightly older, but if men be married, they 591 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: seek out women have their age. The rating theory for 592 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: why is this is how men and women have been 593 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: socialized historically, with women more concerned about social status, men 594 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: more concerned with indicators of fertility. I wonder, though, I 595 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,959 Speaker 1: have to go back, because We've talked about this a 596 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: little bit. Every time I've ever been on a site. 597 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: Most of the men, if they had an age preference, 598 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 1: if I would always do their own age as the 599 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 1: cap and younger m So if the man was thirty five, 600 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: it would be four like I've seen that, And there 601 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: will be several men who would do not even to that. 602 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: As they were getting older, the age would stay the same. 603 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 1: So they might be thirty eight, but their capped for 604 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,479 Speaker 1: thirty five. And I'm kind of like, you're a thirty 605 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: y year old man, you want to have twenty four 606 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,919 Speaker 1: year old what is what is happening? So I did 607 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: find that a lot like if it was specific, it 608 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 1: was much younger typically, and I found that very interesting. 609 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,839 Speaker 1: So I find this like, I feel like that's underwhelming 610 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: of a report. Well, you know, it was only a 611 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: couple of thousands of people and all. So yeah, I 612 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: mean it's hard to I would imagine the data pool. 613 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 1: It's probably pretty significant, but not too significant when it 614 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: comes to remarrying and um and things like that. But 615 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 1: it was just interesting because he the founder, wanted to 616 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: look more into this and that's sort of the general 617 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,919 Speaker 1: pattern that he saw, but yeah, be interested to find 618 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: out more. In the US Food and Drug Administration had 619 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 1: to release a statement advising against older people injecting themselves 620 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: with the plasma of younger people, the so called vampire treatment. 621 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: Soon after the FDA statement, California started up. Ambrosia Health 622 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: began offering one leader of quote youth blood for eight 623 00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: thousand dollars and two leaders for twelve thousand dollars, and 624 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: several companies have popped up around blood and use in 625 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: this idea of like it's not always framed as it 626 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: will make you younger, but it's supposed to like revitalize 627 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: your body inside. And yeah, we talked about the vampire 628 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: facial as well. I feel like if you got like 629 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: just blood, that's going to start a lot of flowing 630 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 1: in your system, and typically not necessarily because you're healthier, 631 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: but because of like the flow, the blood flow, which 632 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: we know doesn't have a little to do with like 633 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 1: whether or not you are pale, you know all of that. 634 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: I feel like that whole narrative is misleading. But any 635 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 1: you want to go in, we'll buy two two for 636 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:43,280 Speaker 1: one to pull the cheaper price. No, that's some weird 637 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: like blood bond is. Look at two bags. It's cheaper 638 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 1: to get too, obviously, look at it. There we go, 639 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 1: There we go. I have actually written a horror story 640 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 1: about this very thing. When it happened, I remember this 641 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 1: new story and I was like, it's happened. Speaking of 642 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: horror stories. UM. Q and on has gotten in on 643 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: this too. Um. Some followers of Q and on believe 644 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: that members of the Hollywood elite take a psychedelic drug 645 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: manufactured from the fear of children called adreno chrome, and 646 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 1: they also think that Monsters eight, the Pixar film is 647 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: essentially a forty and slip that that's what kind of 648 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: happens and Hollywood accidentally told on themselves. Um so the 649 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: story goes that this chemical is extracted from the pituitary 650 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: gland of tortured children. From what I can tell, the 651 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: actual adrena chrome is fairly easily obtained chemical. I don't 652 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 1: know that it's like legal, but it's not too hard 653 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: to get. Not that it's like it doesn't matter, they're 654 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: not going to listen to me. But obviously I know 655 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: they went as far as the saying that, yeah, pedophiles, 656 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,839 Speaker 1: that eight children and that has something to do with 657 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: that as well, like keeping you as well, because as 658 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: a satanic ritual, right right you are you are something 659 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: else anyway. So there has been some pushback against these 660 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: narratives recently. In seventeen, Helen Maron appeared on the cover 661 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 1: of a Lord magazine where she was called the hero 662 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 1: we need and when it comes to ending the anti 663 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,760 Speaker 1: aging industry. That same article got a lot of flak 664 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,839 Speaker 1: for its promise to use different terms of things like 665 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: anti aging, anti wrinkle drawing criticism that it was just 666 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 1: repackaging the same stereotypes. Yeah, it was this whole thing. 667 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 1: It's kind of hard where you're like, I think this 668 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 1: is where we have a hard time with feminism as 669 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 1: well women, not because we don't think it exists and 670 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: we know it's necessary, but the fact that we have 671 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 1: to highlight it in such a way that it becomes 672 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: a typical and it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be like 673 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: they should just let it be. The opposite should be happening, 674 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: where we don't have to worry about aging. Instead of 675 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: highlighting it looks she looks so young and forever young 676 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 1: because she's successful. Now it's like we should change that 677 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: and make that a norm instead of trying to highlight 678 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 1: it being unusual. Can we do that same thing with 679 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 1: feminist stuff, Like we shouldn't be highlighting someone because they're 680 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: doing well as a woman, but we have to in 681 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 1: order for any recognition or any equity to be had. 682 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: And it's irritating. Yeah, oh yeah, but whatever the case. 683 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: People are finally getting tired of all of this. Yea 684 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: US included two thousand twelve worldwide study found a sixty 685 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,799 Speaker 1: of respondents belief that our cultural preoccupation with youth have 686 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 1: gone too far. And yeah, I think we just started 687 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: to understand that as all of the regimens and the 688 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,239 Speaker 1: turturies and the money that we could spend, and the 689 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: lies that are happening, and the influencers like keep spouting 690 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:52,239 Speaker 1: miracle drug. Yeah. Yeah. And there are a lot of 691 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 1: reasons behind our cultural preoccupation with you, some of which 692 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 1: we've already talked about, and particularly in this context in 693 00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,840 Speaker 1: the West, one is yep, money, capitalism. People are believed 694 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,360 Speaker 1: to be, not always accurately, actually the people who spend 695 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,760 Speaker 1: more time on screens and thus are exposed to more ads. 696 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: Because of that, ads often are more geared towards younger 697 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 1: people and feature younger people, which intern leads to this 698 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 1: idea that youth is the norm and what we should 699 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 1: all strive for. We should all want to be these 700 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 1: beautiful young people were seeing in ads because they're cool 701 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:27,359 Speaker 1: and there's something to aspire to. Again, generalizations, because most 702 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 1: ads I see these days are just cringe e. But 703 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,399 Speaker 1: you know that's the idea. Um They represent people who 704 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: are connected and living life to the fullest people aged 705 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: eighteen to thirty have long been believed to have the 706 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 1: most disposable income, but again study found that people over 707 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: fifty accounted for over forty seven percent of household spending. 708 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 1: And that's been an interesting conversation to play out as 709 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 1: well of just like how these kids are just coming 710 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: out of college, how do they have disposable And I 711 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: think it's just a really false It kind of goes 712 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 1: back to this conversation where we're there's all this handwringing 713 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 1: over likens aren't buying houses and known cars anymore, and 714 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 1: we're like, yeah, because we are not the same generation 715 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,319 Speaker 1: and we don't have we can't get jobs, we can't 716 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 1: get well paid jobs, Like it's different. But I think 717 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,359 Speaker 1: they're basing it off of how it was and it's 718 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,759 Speaker 1: a mistake and it's not the same anymore. Interesting I'm 719 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:21,720 Speaker 1: baffle because I'm like, I didn't get a living wage, 720 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: truly living wage until I had three jobs and that 721 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 1: was just four years ago. Yeah. No, I think it's 722 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 1: really misinformed. I think it's based off of how it 723 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,560 Speaker 1: was with like boomers who who had this postible right, 724 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:41,840 Speaker 1: but it's not. So another reason our narratives around age, 725 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:46,000 Speaker 1: especially for women, as something humiliating, in shapable, something to 726 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:50,560 Speaker 1: fight against lest yeah, we need to we need to fight. Yeah, 727 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: for that, we need to fight to change it. Well, 728 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: let's just how when you think of because companies and 729 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 1: capitalism is so good at doing this and adapting, right, 730 00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,160 Speaker 1: So we're like, oh, we don't like anti agent. Quit 731 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 1: saying that in your ads, and they're like okay, And 732 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,719 Speaker 1: so now they're using all these words like combat or 733 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 1: defy or implying that you're fighting against this thing, which 734 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:19,720 Speaker 1: thereby implies that it is bad. Yeah. Yep. Another factor 735 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,360 Speaker 1: is this long held belief that youth is linked to 736 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 1: fertility and health and women, and that's a young person, 737 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,120 Speaker 1: particularly a woman, is a more desirable partner. And we've 738 00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:31,800 Speaker 1: talked about that a lot. This very unfortunate, unfortunate pressure 739 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 1: for young women like our sexual desirability, particularly when comes 740 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,360 Speaker 1: of the male gaze, is also the value and youth 741 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:44,440 Speaker 1: is usually almost always tied into that. A study of 742 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: dating sites conducted by sociologists at the University of Michigan 743 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,279 Speaker 1: found that a woman's desirability to other website users began 744 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:54,319 Speaker 1: to decline after age eighteen, whereas a man's desirability as 745 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,759 Speaker 1: a potential date could peak as late as forty five, 746 00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:03,600 Speaker 1: which is just upsetting. That's eight. Yeah, yeah, this makes 747 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 1: me want of like flip the table over what eighteen 748 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,360 Speaker 1: the hill. So in two thousand and eleven, study found 749 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,200 Speaker 1: that men reported feeling old at fifty eight. For women, 750 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,800 Speaker 1: oh yeah, twenty nine. Yeah. I always talk about I 751 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 1: make a joke about feeling older. It's typically because my 752 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 1: friend groups, I'm the older one of the friends groups, 753 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,320 Speaker 1: so I always tease about the fact that I'm old. 754 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 1: I don't know if I started feeling really old until 755 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,440 Speaker 1: recently when my hips started hurting, which I was running in. 756 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,600 Speaker 1: My hips started hurting around thirty five, and I was like, 757 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:43,400 Speaker 1: oh God, what's happening? And my back went out, and 758 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,160 Speaker 1: I was like, yep, there it is. Yeah. I think 759 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,680 Speaker 1: it's an interesting juxtaposition with conversations that you and I 760 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,799 Speaker 1: have had. Whereas I don't necessarily feel old, but man, 761 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:55,920 Speaker 1: am I already preparing for what if I slip in 762 00:43:55,960 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 1: the shower? Like I'm already imagining these scenarios and what 763 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,840 Speaker 1: am I gonna do? Um? Which is I mean that 764 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:06,520 Speaker 1: is also a big part of what we're talking about. 765 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,239 Speaker 1: Too right that we've talked about that a lot of 766 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,120 Speaker 1: this fear of ending up as the heaven forbid the 767 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,359 Speaker 1: spinster who has no one who's gonna care for her, 768 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:18,439 Speaker 1: and she's going to die alone, die alone. Un yep 769 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 1: it is, and we've talked about that recently, and we're 770 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 1: not going to go into too much history because we 771 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:25,680 Speaker 1: did talk about it, and we have talked about it 772 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,320 Speaker 1: in several things. If you didn't listen to our Ridiculous 773 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 1: History episode, you can hear us go into more examples 774 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 1: of the history of women trying to usually capture beauty 775 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:40,400 Speaker 1: and youth through these very dangerous and painful looking things. Often, 776 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,239 Speaker 1: but yes, there are so many instances throughout history of 777 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,399 Speaker 1: people and especially women going to extreme measures to stay young, 778 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:50,560 Speaker 1: whether it's Cleopatra bathing in the milk of animals, Elizabeth 779 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:55,080 Speaker 1: Bathory allegedly bathing in the blood of virgins, Medieval and 780 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,960 Speaker 1: Victorian practices of putting slices of meat or putting some 781 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 1: wine on the face and hope of minimizing the appearance 782 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,160 Speaker 1: of wrinkles. In the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, ads 783 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,000 Speaker 1: around skin creams were almost entirely targeted towards women with 784 00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,200 Speaker 1: these messages that looking young was the only way that 785 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,160 Speaker 1: they could attract men. And here are some examples of 786 00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,680 Speaker 1: it at copy from this time, one claiming that quote 787 00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,520 Speaker 1: middle aged skin, which could set in as young as 788 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:24,280 Speaker 1: twenty two, meant that women had quote empty date books 789 00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:28,719 Speaker 1: or a wife who quote loses love. There was an 790 00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:32,279 Speaker 1: ad that featured to Belieguered Cupid crying I give up 791 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,439 Speaker 1: um a nineteen ad read poor lois, see how old 792 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,080 Speaker 1: she's growing? Or this ad that asked is it the 793 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,960 Speaker 1: greatest crisis of a woman's emotional life? The sudden merciless 794 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,319 Speaker 1: message from a mirrors crystal dips you are fading just 795 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:54,719 Speaker 1: a bit? How dare you? Yes, don't throw me? And 796 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,160 Speaker 1: this is also like, I mean, no surprise, but depending 797 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,920 Speaker 1: on the life you've had and career options you've had, 798 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,480 Speaker 1: an environment you grew up in, your skin might just 799 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:10,320 Speaker 1: get a little rougher around the edges, have access genetics, 800 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,360 Speaker 1: there's all kinds of things not necessarily in your control 801 00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:18,040 Speaker 1: or at all in your control. And this is just terrible. Again, 802 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,440 Speaker 1: I filled that's a threat. So as these days have 803 00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:25,640 Speaker 1: shifted gears to sound yes, more modern, moving from shaming 804 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:30,319 Speaker 1: language to traditionally empowering language like defy or combat as 805 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,640 Speaker 1: you had just said. And then there's also the health 806 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:37,680 Speaker 1: based jargon for you, like vitality, radiance, or that glow 807 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,120 Speaker 1: which I told recently that I was glowing. I was like, yeah, 808 00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:44,120 Speaker 1: I'm just really oil any things right. And there's a 809 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: lot of emphasis on natural and the scientific sounding terms, 810 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,880 Speaker 1: which if you haven't noticed, we don't have many of 811 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,560 Speaker 1: those ads that we boys because and he's like Helena 812 00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:57,120 Speaker 1: and I definitely agree. And in two thousand seven, Dove 813 00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,880 Speaker 1: even debuted a pro age line because we're pro age. 814 00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:05,440 Speaker 1: In eighteen and neut Regina ran an ad featuring Kerrie Washington, 815 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,239 Speaker 1: Nicole Kidman, and Jennifer Garner, women all over forty with 816 00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:13,719 Speaker 1: a tagline We're not anti aging, We're anti recals. Yeah. 817 00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,160 Speaker 1: I feel like that's the same thing in that Well, 818 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,880 Speaker 1: that's that's kind of this whole thing we've been talking about, 819 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,200 Speaker 1: is we're these companies are so good at this. They're 820 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:26,239 Speaker 1: repackaging the same thing different language, but it's still the 821 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:32,520 Speaker 1: same thing with celebrity level of examples. Rather occasionally, these 822 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,080 Speaker 1: companies get fine for making unsubstantiated claims like boosting Jenes. 823 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,920 Speaker 1: If you'll notice the language in these ad copy is 824 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,680 Speaker 1: usually quite vague, and I only did a precursorysearch on this, 825 00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:49,359 Speaker 1: but I'm fairly certain nothing has None of this has 826 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,040 Speaker 1: been proven to work. All it does like a lot 827 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,840 Speaker 1: of times they'll say might minimize the appearance of wrinkles 828 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:56,920 Speaker 1: or something like that, but yeah, you might want to 829 00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,279 Speaker 1: keep an eye out for that. We've also got things, yes, 830 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,640 Speaker 1: the vampire facial leeches and placentic treatments that celebrities are 831 00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:05,560 Speaker 1: singing the praises of, like some of the sounds when 832 00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:07,120 Speaker 1: I was reading up like surely this is the six 833 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,759 Speaker 1: or something. Nope, it is modern day. So this has 834 00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:16,400 Speaker 1: just been a through line through our history. And also 835 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,960 Speaker 1: like it is fascinating kind of what's been happening with 836 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,799 Speaker 1: some of these women celebrities who have been releasing like 837 00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:28,040 Speaker 1: that non edited picture um, which is also we've talked 838 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:29,279 Speaker 1: about that in the past episode, but it was a 839 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,120 Speaker 1: couple of years ago, so we might want to revisit it. 840 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:35,760 Speaker 1: That can be problematic as well. It's tricky, it's yeah, 841 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:40,880 Speaker 1: but it's interesting, interesting stuff happening here. Well, all of 842 00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,200 Speaker 1: this rebranding around anti age was mostly due to the 843 00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,080 Speaker 1: fact that anti aging was already on the way out 844 00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,439 Speaker 1: from profits in that sector of fill from two point 845 00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:56,239 Speaker 1: to billion dollars to one point nine billion dollars. So yeah, 846 00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:00,120 Speaker 1: I do hope it decreases. I really do. Yeah. I 847 00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:01,960 Speaker 1: mean again, if it's something that makes you feel good 848 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:03,560 Speaker 1: and you like it, like I have plenty of skin 849 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:07,520 Speaker 1: products that just make my skin feel nice, and I 850 00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,400 Speaker 1: love a good just washing of the face, to be honest, 851 00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,279 Speaker 1: it's surprising how nice that can feel. But yeah, this 852 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:19,520 Speaker 1: like language and rhetoric around demonizing aging and women especially 853 00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:23,480 Speaker 1: who are aging any signs of it, that's not healthy 854 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:25,440 Speaker 1: and that we need to change and we need to 855 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,920 Speaker 1: work change that, right and anything that's too gimmicky and 856 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,520 Speaker 1: over the top versus the things that, yeah, again make 857 00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,560 Speaker 1: you feel good by yourself, that's great if that's something 858 00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:38,279 Speaker 1: that you enjoy and feel good, wonderful. But to be 859 00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,399 Speaker 1: obsessive and lose a lot of money and doing all 860 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,719 Speaker 1: these things that really causes you more harm, that's that's 861 00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,080 Speaker 1: a different question in itself, and I think that that 862 00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,880 Speaker 1: that's definitely what we're talking about and understanding, Like aging 863 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,439 Speaker 1: is not a bad thing, surviving is incredible good job, 864 00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:56,240 Speaker 1: you did it, which is kind of how I celebrate. 865 00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,000 Speaker 1: I get depressed around my birthday. I've been talking a 866 00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:02,279 Speaker 1: lot about depression likely uh, mainly because it has a 867 00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,960 Speaker 1: whole other connotation with trauma, and that has something to 868 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,000 Speaker 1: do with the holidays, which happened around the season, and 869 00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,319 Speaker 1: I have a whole lot of like feelings on that. 870 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,120 Speaker 1: But what I do celebrate the reason I don't hide 871 00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:15,359 Speaker 1: my ages because I'm like, yeah, I did it. Yeah, 872 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,000 Speaker 1: I didn't think I can make it. I made it. 873 00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:22,359 Speaker 1: Forty one did it? Yes, So we're happy that you 874 00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,920 Speaker 1: did many more returns. Um. But that's the other thing 875 00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:27,319 Speaker 1: I was thinking about the other day, is I just 876 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,239 Speaker 1: it's not a great way to live if every day 877 00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:32,759 Speaker 1: you're like you think your value is getting less, and 878 00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:39,840 Speaker 1: it's not a great way to go, um, go about life. Anyway. 879 00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:41,759 Speaker 1: We had a lot to say about this, Yes we 880 00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,480 Speaker 1: did well. Listeners. As always, we would love to hear 881 00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,520 Speaker 1: from you. You can email us at step Media, mom 882 00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,480 Speaker 1: Stuff at i heeart media dot com. You can find 883 00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:52,880 Speaker 1: us on Twitter at most of podcast or Instagram at 884 00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:54,960 Speaker 1: stuff I've Never told you things. As always, to our 885 00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: super producer Christina, thank you, Thanks to you, for listening 886 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:00,440 Speaker 1: stuff I never told his prediction of I Radio. For 887 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,160 Speaker 1: more podcast on my Heart Radio VI is the I 888 00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,400 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 889 00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:05,240 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.