1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jesse Smilett on trial finally 2 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:24,920 Speaker 1: prosecutor's claim he fabricated a hate crime on himself? Will 3 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: a jury believe it? I only pray he takes the 4 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 1: stand in his own defense Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 5 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: He's billing it as a trial of the century. I 6 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: doubt that seriously. But what really burns me up is 7 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: that I have worked with hate crime victims and prosecuted 8 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: hate crimes in front of juries, and if it's true 9 00:00:56,160 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: that he fabricated a hate crime on himself, well, juries 10 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: hold that against hate crime victims and the future and 11 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: doubt their victimization. The fact that he was a star 12 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: on the hit series Empire has drawn a lot of 13 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: attention to this trial going down right now, take a 14 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: listen to our cut. Hey, this is Dane Reynolds at CBS. 15 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: How do you feel about these new charges. Smolett's plea 16 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 1: of not guilty came almost a year after he was 17 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: originally booked for fabricating the story of an attack on 18 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:34,199 Speaker 1: him by homophobic Trump's supporters. Those original charges were abruptly 19 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: dropped without much of a reason, and to judge appointed 20 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 1: a special prosecutor to take another look through it all. 21 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: Smolette has insisted he was a victim, and his lawyers 22 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: have accused brothers Abel and ola Osandiro of beating him 23 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: up on that sub zero January night last year. The 24 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: brothers admit involvement, but only in a pattycake publicity stunt 25 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: concocted by Smolette, which police say was done to get 26 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: the actor a raise. They have been truthful since day one. 27 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: The former Empire Stars lawyer Tina Glandian wants the case dismissed. 28 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: He's obviously frustrated to be dragged through this process again, 29 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,519 Speaker 1: as our many in Chicago. But who like Mayor Laurie Lightfoot, 30 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: believe Jesse Smolette should be punished. Let me understand everything 31 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: that I just heard. He is frustrated that he Smolett 32 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: has to go through this process again. Well, maybe he 33 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: should have thought about that before he fabricated a hate 34 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: crime on himself. But you know what, let's hear all 35 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: the evidence before we try and convict and sentenced Smolett. 36 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: But I'm just trying to put it together what his 37 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: claim is. His claim is I understand it is alexas 38 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: terrest shut Crime Online Dot com investigat a reporter. If 39 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: I have it right, Employes, jump in, everybody on the panel. 40 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: I'm going to introduce you one second. I just want 41 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: to understand, do I have the facts right? He flies 42 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: in from out of town. His flight is late, and 43 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: that's significant. He gets home and then in the middle 44 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: of the night he decides not to make a bowl 45 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: of cereal or a piece of cheese toast. He decides 46 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: to go out for a snack I'm talking about and 47 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: the middle of the night, like two am, something like that, 48 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: and he comes down from me as luxury high rise 49 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: and goes outside and he claims two males put a 50 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: rope around his neck, try to throw a bleach on him, 51 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: and a hate crime is because he's gay. So it's 52 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: a gay hate crime. That is what he said initially 53 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: he said when he said two men attacked him, and 54 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: he described very specifically that one had a red Maga 55 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: hat on. Now that is make America great again, Donald 56 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: Trump had. He said they were Donald Trump supporters and 57 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: they were saying homophobic flurs against him because he was gay. 58 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: He says, because he's gay, yes, And he said that 59 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: they were attacking him and using the homophobic flurs against 60 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: him and the purpose of the bleach and the news, 61 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: what does that have to do with him being gay? 62 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: That would be more the bleaches just we're going to 63 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: hurt you because the bleach would hurt you. But the 64 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: news was more of that is where it comes in 65 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 1: as something racist. Okay. See, none of this makes any sense, 66 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: and you know why it doesn't make sense because it's 67 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: not true. The two attackers later were found out because 68 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: they were caught on surveillance video and they know Jesse Smilette. 69 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: They ain't know him. Wasn't it from a gym Alexa 70 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: stress Chuck? No, They actually worked as extras on his 71 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: television show Empire, which filmed in Chicago. They yes, but 72 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: I thought one was like a personal trainer as well. 73 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: He was, yes, and then they trained him as well. Okay, 74 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: they did a music video work out together, so how 75 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: can they claim they and they just happened to be 76 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: outside his high rise at what two o'clock? Okay, you 77 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: know what, We're going to go through the whole thing, 78 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: but I am just ticked off that he says he's 79 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: frustrated that he has to go through this again. Guys, again, 80 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Let me introduce you 81 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: an all star panel. First of all, a real expert 82 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: in his field, Professor Brian Levin, Director at the Center 83 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: for the Study of Hate and Extremism at the California 84 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: State University at San Bernardino. He is also co author 85 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 1: of Limits of Descent. Wendy Patrick with me, California prosecutor, 86 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: author of Red Flags on Amazon. Host of Today with 87 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: doctor Wendy kcb Q, San Diego. You can find her 88 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: at Wendy Patrick PhD dot com or announced Psychiatrists joining 89 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: me out of the Atlanta Jurisdiction, Doctor ANGELA Arnold, an 90 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 1: expert in this field. Joseph Scott morgun, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville 91 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 1: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon 92 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: and start of yet another hit series, Body Bags with 93 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: Joe Scott morgun on iHeart and I believe that title 94 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: says it all and of course elects its terrest with 95 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: US Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter. So what's the story, 96 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: what's the case all about? Take a listen to our 97 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: cut b our friend Charlie was a hiskey at NBC Chicago. 98 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: Was Justicemlett, the mastermind of his own heat crime. Today's 99 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,799 Speaker 1: older brother defended him in the lobby of the courthouse. 100 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: We look forward to people hearing the actual facts in 101 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: this case. The lead investigator on the case says he 102 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: first considered the thirty nine year old Empire actor of victim, 103 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: but Detective Michael t said, as twenty four to twenty 104 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: six investigators invested three thousand man hours into the case, 105 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 1: pouring over more than fifteen hundred hours of surveillance video, 106 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: they began to see things differently. Why all the effort. 107 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: Tea's told the jury it was a horrible hate crime. 108 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: There was a noose, there was bleach, there was local news, 109 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: this was national news. Everybody wanted to know what happened. 110 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: And as it stands right now, the jury has been 111 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: struck and the small jurars have been shown surveillance video 112 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: of the Empire star performing a wait for it, dry 113 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: run the day before he allegedly faked the Chicago hate 114 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: crime attack. A dry run, a dry run, and it's 115 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: on video. All right. I know we're supposed to wait 116 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: until all the evidence is in, but let's analyze what 117 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: we've got so far. Back to you, Alex's Terrestrick, tell 118 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: me about the hit series Empire. So this premiered in 119 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: twenty fifteen on Fox. It is about a wealthy family. 120 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: They are rap moguls and it's based in New York. 121 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: It's filmed in Chicago, but based in New York. And 122 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: he started it with Taraji p Henson. She is the 123 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: most famous person on this show. And it's just about 124 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: scrabulously welcome people in the music industry. I love this 125 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: show and I watched it religiously and it was huge 126 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: premiere with huge numbers. The season one premiere had like 127 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: um seventy million viewers minute she played, she did yep. 128 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: She was the star of the show and it was huge. 129 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: Everybody loved it. It was a huge hit. And who 130 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: was he an Empire? What was his character that he 131 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: was one of the rappers on the show. It's about 132 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: a whole family and fighting over who's going to get 133 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: the money. And you know in the next generation crime 134 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace, guys, take a listen to our 135 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: friends again at NBC Chicago, ar say this is Charlie 136 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: was a husky. After comparing video footage, cell phone records, GPS, 137 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: and rideshare records, she says, we determined that the alleged 138 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 1: ht crime was actually a stage she event and never happened. 139 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: He played video showing Abimbola and alabingo Osandairo buying supplies 140 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: for the attack. They say Smolett helped them plan and 141 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: showed them a photo of the thirty five hundred dollars 142 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 1: check they say they were paid for their role in 143 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: the alleged hoax. After they are arrested by Chicago police, 144 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: Tea says Smolett sent them a text that he released 145 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: for the first time today. Brother, I love you, I 146 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: stand with you. I know one thousand percent you and 147 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: your brother did nothing wrong and never could. I am 148 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: making this statement. The text goes on to say, so 149 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: everyone knows they will not get away with this. Please 150 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: hit me up when they let you go. I am 151 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: behind you fully what Please hit me up when they 152 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: let you go, because isn't it she wills to rest shut. 153 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: The two brothers were arrested at one point until the 154 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: truth came out they were and it was a really 155 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 1: this was a huge win for the police. They arrested 156 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: the two suspects because they saw them on surveillance video. 157 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: Ye know they were identified because they took a ride 158 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: share home like an uber or a lift, and that 159 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,559 Speaker 1: was how they found these guys. That's a heck of 160 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: a getaway car. Wendy Patrick, California Prosecutor. Have you ever 161 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: seen a defendant that commits a hate crime? I don't 162 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: care what kind of hate crime. Is it because of sex, 163 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: it's because of race, it's because of gender, it's because 164 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 1: of religion, don't care. Hate is hate. Have you ever 165 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: seen somebody leave a violent crime by cashing an uber 166 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 1: or a lift? No? Absolutely not. And you know, and 167 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: this is really a sign of the times. This is 168 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 1: the way we travel. But people to travel that way 169 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: know how easy it is to track them. I have 170 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: worked on many hate crimes that actually were legitimate that's 171 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,839 Speaker 1: similar to this. I actually worked with Professor Levitt on 172 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: some of these types of crimes back in the day. 173 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: But this is a new one, and I think it's 174 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: probably something maybe they didn't think through beforehand, or we 175 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: wouldn't have the great evidence we do. Maybe it's because 176 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 1: it wasn't a real crime, so they didn't really have 177 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: to get away. Let's go to our expert, Professor Brian Levin, 178 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: the director at the Center for Study of Hate and Extremism, 179 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: it's a real honor to talk to you again, doctor eleven. 180 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: And I'm making light of Smilette's claims because I've seen 181 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,839 Speaker 1: so many hate crimes investigated and prosecuted them myself in 182 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: front of juries, argued them up to the Georgia Supreme 183 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: Court as well to hold the conviction whole, the hate 184 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: crime conviction. And it I'm happy because no one died, 185 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 1: Number one. I'm always in a great mood, Professor Levin, 186 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: when nobody's dead that day in the cases we cover. 187 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: So I'm happy about that. And now that's setting the 188 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: bar pretty low. You know, nobody died, that's the bar. 189 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:54,439 Speaker 1: That's the good day. But it's almost it's farcical that 190 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: this is a real hate crime. But yet I'm doing 191 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:04,079 Speaker 1: a slow burn because just for instance, one hate crime 192 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 1: that I God, thank you for this held on appeal 193 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:12,959 Speaker 1: was a series of black males across the city of 194 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: Atlanta were raped and shot in the head during the 195 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: sex attack. And all of these victims were linked by 196 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: ballistics because the killer always used the same as I 197 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: recalled thirty eight caliber and that's how he was tracked. 198 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: I remember just staring at the composite in that case, 199 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: and working on that appeal, working, working, working and going 200 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: to the Georgia Supreme Court and arguing it in front 201 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: of them and looking them in the eyes and arguing 202 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: this case. And I was so worried this guy was 203 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: going to get off on appeal. I was just so worried. 204 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: And there were any others. But when I think about 205 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: those victims and I think about somebody faking hate crime, 206 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: it just burns me that those victims are dead, and 207 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: many other hate crime victims that I've worked on their cases, 208 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: they're dead, they're forever scarred. And here's Smollett jumping up 209 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,719 Speaker 1: with all that money, all that thing, the fancy high rise, 210 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: the fancy clothes, the works, and he is jobbing the system. 211 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: I'm just I'm angry, as you should be. And and look, 212 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to get ahead of my skis here, 213 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: just like you said with that disclaimer. But I'll tell 214 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: you that's a heck of a lot of evidence against him. 215 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: You have physical evidence, you actually have the quote unquote perpetrators. 216 00:13:54,360 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: Um you have how the story doesn't add up? What 217 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 1: I don't understand. Why didn't he take a plea? You know, Oh, 218 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: that's a good question, Professor eleven. I've said that a 219 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 1: million times. I said, why did Scott Patterson just plead guilty? 220 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: Why didn't talk him? I'm just plead guilty. Well, you 221 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: know what I don't. I'm a j date, not an 222 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: m D. Professor. Let's go to the shrink on this. 223 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: And I say that in a loving and carrying way, 224 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: Doctor Angie. I think it's because they can't admit to 225 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: the world that they did this thing. They'd rather go 226 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: to trial and luck hopefully you know, they think they're 227 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: going to get off, but proved to the world just 228 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: didn't happen. They can't look their mother, their father, and 229 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: their family there in this case they're fans and went, yeah, 230 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: I think to hate crime on myself. You know what 231 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: I think, Nancy, I'm afraid what what do you think 232 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: anything happened? Right now? I think he really believes. I 233 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: think the more times people tell themselves something, they actually 234 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: come to believe it. And I think he's gonna believe 235 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: this because he's gonna act like he believes it. And no, 236 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: he's never gonna admit to it. He's going to make 237 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: a jury turn him in. You know what, I've heard 238 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: that a million times. They really believe it. B s Now. 239 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: I don't think he kind that in medical school. But 240 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: he did this thing. What do you mean he believes 241 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: he didn't do it. He can forever tell his family 242 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: that jury got it wrong. Right, Well, this is okay, 243 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: here's another uneducated opinion when it comes to psychiatry. Go 244 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: with me on this, doctor eleven, Tell me what you think, 245 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: Professor eleven. Um. I think that people tell the same 246 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: story and they think, oh, okay, I can explain this, 247 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: and I can explain that and this and that, and 248 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: they shore up all the holes in their story, and 249 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: then they start getting mad when you don't believe them, 250 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: because in their mind they've got it all explained to me. 251 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: I think that's what they get indignant about. You know, 252 00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: darn well, this guy pulling down this huge paycheck, famous 253 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: on a super hit series. He knows darn well what happened. 254 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: He hasn't brainwashed his own self. That's crazy talk. But 255 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: but if I could just interject real quickly to put 256 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: it to put another spin on this, he was actually 257 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: receiving hate mail. So I think it's some emotional level. 258 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: The guy feels that he was, you know, somehow singled out, 259 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: and he did he did get hate mail? At least 260 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: that's what he alleged. Oh you mean those letters he 261 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: wrote himself. I remember my first death threat. It came 262 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: by facts from the Fulton County jail. Gee, I wonder 263 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: who said that. Yeah, everybody else Panels probably gotten hate mail. 264 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: Let's say Eliza's Terrestia definitely, doctor Angie, maybe, Wendy Patrick definitely. 265 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: Jess Got you ever get any hate mail or anything 266 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: like that? No? The did? The did generally don't send 267 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: me anything, No, no, no, no, I mean like online? Yeah, 268 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: I have, yeah, how to blowback? Particulars were just recently 269 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: and I really don't know how to take this. Somebody 270 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: wrote you are ugly? Why aren't you on TV? Well? 271 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: I had to take that with a box for me. 272 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: I mean, it just really mean. But so what plus 273 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: a license to Russia. Let's circle back on what Levin says. 274 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: Did he really get hate mail or did? Were those 275 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: the threats he wrote himself? And how does that get 276 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: a pay raise? How's he going to get a pay 277 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: raise out of the stunt? That's what it said. There 278 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 1: was no proof of who actually sent to pick the 279 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: letter that had, you know, a drawing of a stick 280 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: figure in a noose. There was, and he was just 281 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: he said he thought that they weren't investigating it, but 282 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: there's no proof that he didn't send it. Okay, guys, 283 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: it's happening right now, but I still and I'm gonna 284 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: blame you, Jesse Scott Morgan. We still haven't laid out 285 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: what allegedly happened that night of the hate crime. Take 286 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut d our friends at NBC Chicago. 287 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: Smoris attorneys maintained the attack on him was as real 288 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: as the heat let at the studio received before the incident. 289 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: During cross examination, they questioned police evidence, as did one 290 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: activist who says she came to know a small fabricating cases. 291 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 1: This is what the Chicago Police Department does. The defense 292 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: is also attacking the credibility of the os and Dyer brothers. 293 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: They are expected to testify in this case later this week. 294 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: What is unclear is whether or not Josic Smallot will 295 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: tape the stand in his own defense. Prime Stories with 296 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, I want you to hear. Just go 297 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: with me on this. This is our friend Robin Roberts, 298 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: a great, great lady at ABC. It's our cut eight, 299 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: and this is raw Been, who I think a great 300 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: deal of interviewing Jesse Smilett following the attack. Okay, our 301 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: cut eight, take a lesson. They ran off and I 302 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: saw where they ran and the phone was in my 303 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: pocket but it had fallen out, and I was sitting 304 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: there and my manager was still on the phone. So 305 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: I picked up the phone and I said, Brandon, and 306 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: he's like going on and I said, I was just jumped. 307 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: And then I looked down and I see that there's 308 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: a rope around my neck, which I hadn't. I hadn't 309 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: noticed it before you because it was so fast, you 310 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. It was so fast. How long 311 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: did this all? It felt like minutes, but it probably 312 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: was like thirty seconds. Honestly, I can't tell you. Honestly, 313 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: I noticed the rope around my neck and I started 314 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 1: screaming and I said, there's a rope around my neck. 315 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: Did you get any kind of description of the attack? 316 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: I gave a body description, and I you know, because 317 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: I saw this, but and you know, right here or whatever, 318 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: but I didn't see. I can't tell you what color 319 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: their eyes were. I can't tell you. And I did 320 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 1: not see anything except the second person and I saw 321 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: running away and the first person, yeah, I saw saw 322 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: his stature. I gave the description as best as I could. 323 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: You have to understand also that it's Chicago in winter. 324 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: People can wear ski masks and nobody's going to question that. 325 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: That's really interesting because one was his personal trainer. I 326 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: also want you to hear our cut eleven. This is 327 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: Robin again, Robin Roberts actually speaking to Jesse Smilett, and listen, 328 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: don't you know the state if Smilett doesn't take the stand, 329 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: they can introduce you. They can introduce this into evidence. 330 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: Because the constitution protects you from an improper questioning by 331 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: the state, by police, by investigators. It doesn't protect you 332 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: from blabbing. To Roberts, that was his decision. Take a 333 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: listen to cutt eleven. Subway is open twenty four hours 334 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,239 Speaker 1: for a reason. So then when you're hungry at night 335 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: and you ain't got no food, you go to subway 336 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: the camera facing north. How is that my issue? It 337 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: feels like if I had said it was a Muslim 338 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: or a Mexican or someone black, I feel like the 339 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: doubters would have supported me a lot much more a 340 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: lot more, and that says a lot about the place 341 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: that we are in our country right now, the fact 342 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: that we have these fear mongols, these people that are 343 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 1: trying to separate us, and it's just not okay. It's 344 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: just not okay. And for all of the people, the 345 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: next time that you see someone report something, maybe well 346 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: after the fact that it happened, and you say to them, 347 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 1: why are you waiting till now? Just remember that mine 348 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: was reported right away and look what has happened. And 349 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: in twenty one, our friend Rob Egglas said ABC seven, 350 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: the lawyer for the two Sendai brothers actually challenge Jesse 351 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 1: Smilett to tell the choice listen to this. I think 352 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: Jesse Smoilett should come clear because of truthful segmentary bold 353 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 1: words from the attorney of Abel and ola Osandero brothers, 354 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: who spend hours talking to prosecutors in a grand jury. 355 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: They are the same men police say are in this 356 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: surveillance photo and its evidence, Jesse Smilette told Robin Roberts 357 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: shows his attackers. I don't have any doubt in my 358 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: mind that that's there. The Empire actor who told police 359 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: two mass men beat him yelling racial and homophobic slurs 360 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: in Chicago Streeterville neighborhood is now charged with his own 361 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: alleged crime, the Cook County States Attorney's Office, saying Smilette 362 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: faces one felony count of disorderly conduct stemming from filing 363 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,479 Speaker 1: a false police report. Smilette is expected in bondcourt at 364 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: one thirty. I think that Jesse's conscience is probably not 365 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: letting him sleep right now, so I think he should 366 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: unload that conscience and to come out until the American 367 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: people would actually have Smilett's lawyers fired back, releasing his 368 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: statement saying, quote, like any other citizen, mister Spilett enjoys 369 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: the presumption of innocence. Given the circumstances, we intend to 370 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: conduct a thorough investigation and to mount an aggressive defense 371 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: by too. Alexis to Rezchik joining us, Alexis, I want 372 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: you to hear what Joe Scott Morgan has to say 373 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 1: regarding the actual evidence in this case. He's the forensics expert. 374 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 1: What is going to be proven? We know so far. 375 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: Jurors have been shown footage the two brothers involved in 376 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: the alleged hate crime against Smilette with the Empire actor 377 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: two days before they're caught on video buying the supplies 378 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: used in the attack. And now we're hearing that Smilette 379 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 1: himself performed a dry run of the attack before it occurred. 380 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,360 Speaker 1: But first to you, jose Scott Morgan joining US Professor 381 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: Forensics Jacksonville State University and author Joe Scott, what do 382 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: you consider to be the most critical forensic evidence in 383 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: this case? Well, I think it's what he refused to do, Nancy. 384 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: You know, they the police actually talked about his refusal 385 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 1: to submit to a DNA test relative to this noose 386 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: that he found allegedly around his neck. And so what 387 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: they wanted to do was, you know, do the cheek swab, 388 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 1: the buckle mucostal swab relative to the DNA sample. All right, 389 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: swab is so easy. It's like taking a really long 390 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,479 Speaker 1: Q tip. Ye, rub it on the inside of your 391 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: cheek and you get DNA. That's what that is. Okay, 392 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 1: go ahead, when you start throwing around buckle mucosta swab, 393 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: well let's cheek. But yeah, yeah, you're right, and it's 394 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: very simple to do, Nancy. I mean, you don't have 395 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: to be a rocket scientist to do it. And then 396 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: what they were going to do is compare any kind 397 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: of DNA recovered off of this this noose that he 398 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: allegedly had around his neck. You remember what he said 399 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: when the police got there, the first thing I would 400 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: do is get that rope from around my hand and 401 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: secured because it's fragile. You know, this is biological evidence, 402 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: and it's very very fragile in this environment. And what 403 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: you want to do is these two brothers that when 404 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: you know, you've got the videotape of them going into 405 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: the store to purchase all of these items to facilitate this, 406 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,119 Speaker 1: guess what might be there. They're touched DNA on the 407 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: surface of this rope. If they purchased it, they handed 408 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: it over to him, So then you kind of get 409 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 1: this this triangulation where you have both of them touching 410 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: at the brothers that is, and then Simolette his DNA 411 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 1: would be there as well. So how do you connect 412 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: those three things? Well, the numbers that you're talking about 413 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: are astronomical relative to probability, So that's what they're looking at. 414 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 1: And I don't know how how cooperative he was in 415 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: order them for them to facilitate this testing. Well, the 416 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: reality is straight back out. The cooperation is this, Wendy, 417 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 1: it's Alexis. Yeah, and Wendy, I want to circle back 418 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,719 Speaker 1: with you. Once he turned into a defendant, they can 419 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: just do a search one and get his DNA, but Alexis, 420 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: go ahead place. So at when it small like called 421 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 1: the police, they came over to his house. He actually 422 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: asked them to turn off their body cameras, which I 423 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 1: suppose if your celebrity is something that whatever, But if 424 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: you are telling the tree, do you want people to 425 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: see what happened? That sort of seemed to raise a 426 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: lot of suspicions at the time. So didn't that cooperative once? 427 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: That's a critical fact? He did? You write that down 428 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: in my Philo chart of evidence? Ask cops to turn 429 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: off body cam? Drop a quick point, yes, go ahead, yeah, 430 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: because we're touching on this before where I got to 431 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: make half half of my point and that was the 432 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: worst one. But just beer with me. I think the 433 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: strongest thing he had going was a his theatrics and 434 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: be the the appearance of earnestness and sincerity and what 435 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 1: I'm saying to having looked at the host cases we've 436 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: seen over the years, which are by the way, very small, 437 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: we saw about sixty four out of twenty one thousand 438 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: over a three year period. But here's what I think 439 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: it's so interesting we see with these folks. Just bear 440 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 1: with MESU. I think it's important. I think these folks 441 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: who do this have actually experienced some kind of emotional 442 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: thing related to bias during their life, whatever it is, 443 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: and now what they see as well, you know, this 444 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: is an opportunity. And what we see with these kind 445 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: of folks, we see various things. We see most of 446 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 1: these are done by college students, by the way, first 447 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 1: of all, so either it's a distraction from from some 448 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: wrongdoing and a grand guisements or some kind of benefit 449 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,399 Speaker 1: a social or otherwise. And what I'm saying Hugh was 450 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: he certainly matches not not the college students thing, because 451 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: that's most of the ones you see, but they usually 452 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: unravel right at the time that they're officially reported. And 453 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 1: what I think that he didn't expect. I don't think 454 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: he expected the Chicago police to be so thorough. And 455 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: that's where I think his big misstep was. And I 456 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 1: we see this a lot, this kind of Icarus syndrome 457 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 1: where these folks legitimately can channel these emotions of having 458 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 1: experienced the stuff. So whether or not you know those 459 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: initial letters where his or not, he probably had some 460 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: hateful letters over his career. When you're famous, that kind 461 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: of stuff happens. And that's that's what I think. When 462 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,719 Speaker 1: you get to the level where we're going over forensics 463 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: and videos and you have these these witnesses, everything else 464 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: falls like dominoes, and the only thing that he's got 465 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: now is a double ed sword. No, no competent lawyer 466 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: would let him know. It would be the emotion of saying, no, 467 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: this really happened. But Dennis, you pointed out Nancy, then 468 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: he gets crossed, and he'll get crossed crime stories with 469 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. You know what? Levin Professor Brian Levin joining 470 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: me from the Center for the Study of Hayden Extremism. 471 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: I could listen you talk all day long. I've said 472 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: that we're actually about every It's really interesting the way 473 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: you talked about motivation, which, of course the state doesn't 474 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: have to prove distraction to grandiesment. What was the third one, Oh, 475 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: we sometimes we have insurance fraud for instance. That's a 476 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: good one. But you said something else, distraction and grandiement 477 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: and some other motivation. What was it making making one socially, 478 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: it's having one social status elevated, but also I think 479 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: in some perverse way, to bear with me, it's some 480 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: kind of tipping of the scale back. In other words, 481 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: I always hated sometime during my life and it hurt me. Well, 482 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: now I'm going to cash in on it in some way. 483 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: And that's where that legit. When you're looking at him, 484 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: you know, with those crocodile tears. Some of that is 485 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: coming certainly from the fact that he was an actor, 486 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: but I think some of that comes from some kind 487 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: of experience he had before and and it's kind of 488 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: consistent with what we see. In other words, this transference 489 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: of bigotry from something that may have happened earlier that 490 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: wasn't as serious, to something that's completely farcical and meet 491 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: up professional. And I certainly hope you're not saying that 492 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: some prior active bigotry or hatred or dislike against let's 493 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: just say at that time would be a victim is 494 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: somehow justification for committing a crime like this. People in 495 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: that area and every area in every big city are 496 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: being raped, murdered, assaulted, shot dope dealing, you name it, 497 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: and they're gonna call it the cops out at two 498 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: am in the morning, were some bees suspicion. But it's 499 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: how he does it and God's tyle. I think he 500 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: channeled that ability to feel self righteous and emotional and 501 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 1: make it make it kind of stick for a lot 502 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: of people who believed it because it came from a 503 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: place where he had felt this prior. Am I saying No, 504 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: I think his news, so to speak, he's trying to 505 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: find jump in Joe Scott. Yeah. One of the things 506 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about here is that you know, and I know, 507 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: because of his profile in the community, they're going to 508 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: throw a ton of resources at this case. How many 509 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: how many investigators did they put on this case? And 510 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you three numbers really quick. In twenty nineteen, 511 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: there were almost five hundred homicides in Chicago seven over 512 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: seven teen hundred rapes nancy in Chicago, and over fifteen 513 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: thousand assaults. And so this guy rising to this level 514 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: of prominence in this community, they're going to demand that 515 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: all eyes beyond this. So how many detectives, how much 516 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: manpower is being taken away from those cases where you've 517 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: got really people suffering? Man? I mean really suffering and 518 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: focusing on you. This term, I think, doctor Lende, this farce, 519 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: this farcical thing. This means it's a tragedy. Hey, you 520 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: know what I keep thinking about, and I know everybody 521 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: on this panel knows what I'm talking about. I'm thinking 522 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: about real hate crimes. And I was very interested in 523 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: the figure that doctor excuse me, Professor Bryan Levin, throughout 524 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: sixty four, only sixty four out of twenty one thousand 525 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: hate crimes over a three year period were faked, just 526 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: sixty four out of twenty one thousand. What I'm thinking 527 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: about or not statistics, although I find that pretty pretty persuasive. 528 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the scenes of actual hate crimes, where 529 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: somebody's dead and it's bloody, and it smells really bad 530 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: because blood and human decomposition is set in and it's sticky, 531 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: and it's something you never forget. And when you've seen 532 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: hate crime victims that lived, how they're forever traumatize it 533 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: that you can't go back to the way you were before. Ever. 534 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: You can go on in life, but you can't go 535 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: back to the innocent you were before you were the 536 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: victim of a hate crime. I'm thinking about them and 537 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: this ridiculous story. Hey Alexis, could you just walk us 538 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: through and start with the threats that I mean, it's 539 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: straight out. It's like a fifth grade girl wrote a 540 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: mystery novel. It's like, did what did he cut out 541 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: the letters out of a magazine? I can see on murder? 542 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,720 Speaker 1: She wrote? Is that how that worked? His original hate threats? 543 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: And there's like a state figure with a noose and 544 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: then hello and behold the purps. I guess knew he 545 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: was gonna get the Munchie's at two am and go 546 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,720 Speaker 1: to subway or waiting out in sub zero weather waiting 547 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: for him to put a noose around his neck. So 548 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 1: it just, yes, amazingly matches the letter. And there was 549 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: a letter that was sent to the moot, to the 550 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: studio that produced the television show, Fox Studio, and he 551 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: so what he had said or what they what has 552 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: been reported is he didn't feel like it was getting 553 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: enough attention. It was getting a lot of threats. Now 554 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: then the attack happened. What of things. I'm wondering if 555 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 1: they're going to introduce this as evidence, because maybe one 556 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,359 Speaker 1: of the other I first talked about it. So he's 557 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 1: saying that Bleach was thrown on him. So this is 558 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: two o'clock in the morning in Chicago. It was something 559 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 1: like negative thirty four degrees that night, and so people 560 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 1: were saying that if you threw bleach it which literally 561 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 1: freeze instantly and freeze up, and it wouldn't be possible 562 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: to be to have been thrown on him at that 563 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,359 Speaker 1: temperature outside in the middle of the night. Is that change, Scott, Well, 564 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: I can speak to the nature of water. It almost 565 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 1: turns into a vapor. You can see it crystallizes in 566 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: the air. I'm assuming that bleach would probably have the 567 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: same effect. And not only that, there is going to 568 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 1: be evidence left behind on clothing perhaps where I mean, 569 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: we all know what happens when exposed clothing to bleach. 570 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: It's the worst thing that can happen to your wardrobe. 571 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: It changes colors and that sort of thing, and not 572 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: to mention the costic effects that it has on your skin, 573 00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: and then inhalation you're gonna have red irritated areas. So yeah, 574 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: there would be evidence of this fancy you know, Nancy connection. 575 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: But this is this is Wendy. I was I was 576 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: gonna waiting at all. All of what you're bringing up 577 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,760 Speaker 1: is going to be a great circumstantial case as to motives, 578 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: motives to live, motives to make it up. Remember the 579 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 1: polar vortex where during the time that this happened, that 580 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: was splashed all over the news. Can you imagine foraging 581 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: for food in the middle of the night in those 582 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: sub zero temperatures, not to mention the difficulty that would 583 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 1: cause in recognizing clothing and believing somebody recognized Jessie given 584 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 1: the fact that he was probably I think he totally 585 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: bundled up. This is the subway. He went to subway 586 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: and got food. And I can say, you know, I 587 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: remember being a single person, you might not have any 588 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 1: food in your house in the middle of the night. 589 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: He did go to subway and get a sandwich. Okay, 590 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: you know what that's so he would be spotted on 591 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 1: videos surveillance. Hey, you know, I'm just going to project here, 592 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: and I would totally argue this to the jury. About 593 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: midnight last night, I had fallen asleep in the twins room. 594 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 1: I got up and then decided I was angry. I thought, oh, 595 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:00,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to walk to the kid chin and 596 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: actually find something forget it. Got to sleep, so I 597 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 1: don't even want to walk to the kitchen much less 598 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: get dressed at two am and go out into a 599 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: polar vortex at negative thirty four degrees at two am, 600 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 1: and then go try to explain the subway sandwich, how 601 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: I want my turkey, and no, that's not happening, and 602 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: plus there's twenty four hour delivery. Why would he do that? 603 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: I mean, let's just talk about the food aspect of 604 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 1: this thing. Back to you, alexis dress chuck. I got 605 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,399 Speaker 1: carried away on something, Joe Scott said. So he gets 606 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: these threats and tell me about the allegation about the 607 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: hate crime. And we haven't even gotten to us at 608 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,439 Speaker 1: Kim Fox that dropped the original charges. That's a whole 609 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,359 Speaker 1: other can of worms. Why she did that and had 610 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: to bring in an independent prosecutor investigator on this case. 611 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: But Alexis so that night, just to start very quickly, 612 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,320 Speaker 1: give me a nutshell version. He flies in out of 613 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,879 Speaker 1: town and he's light, and which is important, I haven't 614 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 1: out of town very late, goes home, decides to go 615 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 1: out and get a sandwich at subway, gets the sandwich 616 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: and then is attacked. Is attacked on the streets of Chicago. 617 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 1: There is not video as his actual attack. There's video 618 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 1: from before and there's a video from after, but it just, 619 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: you know, not everywhere in every city has surreillance cameras everywhere. 620 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:24,839 Speaker 1: This happened to be a spot where there wasn't a camera. 621 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,919 Speaker 1: It was you know, a block away and a block after. 622 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: So he is attacked. He goes home, He calls his publicists, 623 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: which is what actors do that this is their crisis manager, 624 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 1: this is their spokesperson, this is their voice. So he 625 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: calls his manager. As the still around his neck. And 626 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,959 Speaker 1: by the way, doctor Jackie here and on the set 627 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 1: b Rory Joe Scott Morgan. She says, blache can easily 628 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: phreeze if you leave it outside during the cold months. 629 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,719 Speaker 1: They are a different type of bleaches. Each one has 630 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 1: a unique freezing point, but it absolutely does freeze. And 631 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: I get us at negative thirty four that would apply. Okay, 632 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 1: back to you, thank you, thank you, doctor Jackie. Go ahead. 633 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: So then he calls the police. They show up. Now 634 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: they are conflicting. Well, this isn't conflicting short, this is 635 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:14,839 Speaker 1: maybe something. It's another part of the evidence. A video 636 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:19,240 Speaker 1: that showed him prior he had with the rope hanging 637 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: down and then when the first image when the police 638 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 1: come and then he asked them to turn off the camera, 639 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 1: the rope is actually nodded, so there were some questions 640 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: that he may have tied the rope himself so that 641 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:38,440 Speaker 1: it better introduced. Yeah, I want to make a I 642 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,800 Speaker 1: want to get waved into the jurisdation, help with the 643 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: prosecution on this. So then what happens. Then the police 644 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 1: start the investigation. Everybody takes us very seriously. There is 645 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: no reason to suspect that he learned about this, none whatsoever. 646 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 1: This is, you know, this is he seems distraught, there 647 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: is evidence, there's a news there there, it's all the 648 00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 1: evidence is there. There's no reason. It's the second made. 649 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 1: So the police go full out of investigating this. Every 650 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 1: Nobody wants this to happen to anybody, you know, I 651 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 1: hate crime or really nobody wants any crime to happen. 652 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 1: And so they pour over surveillance video of the blocks 653 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: where he was and then days later they actually make 654 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 1: an arrest. In the meantime, he has gone on, he 655 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,800 Speaker 1: has spoken out in public. Everybody has been very supportive. 656 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 1: Lee Daniel, as the creator of his television show, says 657 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: he stands behind him one hundred percent. This is terrible. 658 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,440 Speaker 1: Even though Vice well I don't think she's vice president 659 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,839 Speaker 1: of the time, but even I think Kamala Harris said, 660 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:33,879 Speaker 1: you know, this is a modern day lynching. People were 661 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 1: very much behind him and supported him and Blue here. Well, 662 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, alexas I got stopped. Don't want anybody would 663 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 1: go out at two am in a polar vortex to 664 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 1: get a subway. I mean that stopped me in my 665 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 1: tracks right then. And if you choose to believe that 666 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: the the haters had focused on him, had targeted him, 667 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: they would have to know that his plane came in late. 668 00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: They would have to know that he was going to 669 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: get hungry at two am and got the subway and 670 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,040 Speaker 1: being the perfect position for them to throw bleach on him. 671 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 1: It just and have to wait outside for the perfect 672 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:12,799 Speaker 1: moment for smallt to come outside. What every night? None 673 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 1: of it makes sense. His story does not hang together. 674 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,480 Speaker 1: So on day one, who subway insting Nancy? Yeah, go ahead, yeah, 675 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,440 Speaker 1: I remember what Morton Downey June that that famous TV 676 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,840 Speaker 1: pundit that had his own show when his career was 677 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 1: kind of stalling, he had a backward swastick that was 678 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,399 Speaker 1: allegedly done by skinheaded Sancisco Airport. But then folks said, wait, 679 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,719 Speaker 1: maybe that's what someone would do with a mirror. What 680 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,239 Speaker 1: I'm saying. What I'm saying is, I do think there's 681 00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,400 Speaker 1: an interesting motive. Everything that you're saying is true, And 682 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 1: what I'm saying is, I think the most interesting motive 683 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,400 Speaker 1: would come from the prosecutor to say, you know what, 684 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:55,759 Speaker 1: it's because this guy wanted something that celebrities crave because 685 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,400 Speaker 1: they can translate that into new jobs and other types 686 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 1: of currency, and that is attention, particularly sympathetic attention. And 687 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 1: I think that, you know, it's the only thing that 688 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,440 Speaker 1: adds up every time you bring up a fact, it 689 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: is damning. It is damning to the defense. So it's 690 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 1: one of those times where you know, darn where the 691 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 1: hours are pointed in one way. Look, let's give him 692 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 1: a fair trial. Let's see what the evidence is. But 693 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,279 Speaker 1: gus just listening to you and listen to all these 694 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,360 Speaker 1: other experts with respect to the forensics, with respect to 695 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,360 Speaker 1: how this took place, with respect to the evidence, and 696 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 1: his statements that were tenuous at best. Boy, he's got 697 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 1: to come up with something good because the way this 698 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 1: is going now, it does not look good if he 699 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,280 Speaker 1: takes a stand. Professor eleven, it's going to be an oscar. 700 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:54,040 Speaker 1: Better be an Oscar performance. We wait as justice unfalls. 701 00:42:54,640 --> 00:43:00,440 Speaker 1: Nancy grace Kind story signing off Goodbye, Friend one