WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 233 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:03.080 Cool media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.720 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.440 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.720 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.480 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:24.800 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:31.040 Welcome to it could happen here a show, But thanks. 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:35.279 Falling apart, I'm Garrison Davis today, I'm joined by James Stout. 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:39.600 Hello, Hi, Gay, I'm excited to see what's falling UPOT today. 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:42.960 Well, that's our elections, which have, as we all know, 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:45.839 have been raged for as long as I can remember, 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:49.160 which is kind of true considering when I was born 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:52.400 circa the year two thousand oh. 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:56.640 Yeah, the famous, the great and democratic collection of to 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:58.400 have in the United States. 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:02.200 The flawless election of two Yeah. But no, we are 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:06.039 going to be talking about Trump's continuing claims that the 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:09.640 twenty twenty election was rigged and his investigation of election 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:13.360 fraud in not just the twenty twenty election but also 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:18.600 the twenty twenty four election, which if you recall, was 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:24.560 not rigged against Trump, considering Trump won that election including 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:25.360 the popular vote. 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:28.280 Yeah, he won every way you could slice that up. 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:29.440 A sweeping victory. 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:32.800 Yeah, it was a fatle for the Democrats. 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:36.240 But a lot of the investigations into election fraud actually 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:39.720 do revolve around the twenty twenty four voter roles, which 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:42.640 we will discuss in a bit, But first let's go 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:46.920 back a few weeks on Executive Disorder. I reported that 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:50.640 Cash Brittel went on too Fox News a few weeks 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:53.840 ago and announced that the FBI would soon be making 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:57.440 arrests related to Trump's claims that the twenty twenty election 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:01.880 was stolen, with Patel saying, as a conspiracy end quote, 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.880 they tried to thwart our elections and rig the entire system. 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:09.440 We got all the evidence, we've. 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:11.440 Got all the effortens I can announce on your show 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:14.200 that we've got all the information we need. We're working 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:16.560 with our prosecutors, the Department of Justice and the Attorney 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:19.680 General Todd Blanche and we are going to be making 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.960 arrest and it's coming, and I promise you it's coming soon. 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:26.280 Patel also claimed on Fox News, quote, we have the 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:30.880 information to back President Trump's claims. About a week and 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:36.000 a half later, the DOJ announced quote multiple aliens charged 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:39.080 with illegally voting in federal elections. 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.120 It's multiple, James, multiple. 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:44.359 Well, okay, yes, we're looking at three. 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.040 No, no more than three, more than three. 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:47.640 Four. 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:54.040 It was fun, fun for me, Okay, just for people 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:56.160 who aren't familiar with the skired of the United States, 0:02:56.160 --> 0:03:00.320 it's that's not a statistically significant number. When it comes 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:04.680 to electoral outcomes, generally, they are decided by several multiples 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:05.080 of four. 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:11.480 Usually, Yeah, Patel commented, quote Securing our elections from criminal 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:13.760 actors here at home and around the world is one 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:17.400 of the top priorities for this FBI. Non citizens voting 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:21.120 is a federal crime, period, and while other administrations may 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:23.040 have looked the other way in the past, those days 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:25.240 are over. We will continue to work around the clock 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:28.160 with our interagency partners to ensure those who engage in 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.359 such conduct will not get away with it. So these 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:34.480 arrests took place in New Jersey, and these quote unquote 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:39.600 multiple aliens were four permanent residents who registered to vote 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:43.520 and cast ballots in at least one federal election before 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:46.920 applying for naturalization via the N four hundred. 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:47.680 Yeah. 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:51.560 Now, the N four hundred form has a section where 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.440 it asks if the applicant has ever registered to vote 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:58.440 or has voted in a federal, state, or local election. 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.560 Three of the peace people charged in New Jersey checked 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.640 no in the box asking if they had voted. The 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:10.000 other left the box blank, but when later questioned by 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.360 an Immigration Services officer at the us CIS interview, this 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:17.360 applicant answered no that they did not or have not voted. 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:18.080 Yeah. 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:23.799 Now, interestingly, only two out of the four are actually 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:28.120 charged with quote, voting by an alien in a federal election, okay, 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:32.920 three are charged with false statements in relation to naturalization, yeah, 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:38.000 and two are charged with procurement of citizenship or naturalization unlawfully. 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:40.800 Yeah. Well, because I'm guessing the goal here would be 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:42.680 to denaturalize them, right for. 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:45.200 The people that were naturalized that that looks like that 0:04:44.920 --> 0:04:47.279 will that will be part of what they do going forward. 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.280 Yeah. I know I've reported on this in NED before, 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:55.640 but like large parts of USCIS have denaturalization targets right 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:58.480 in the same way that we've seen deportation targets for 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:02.640 ICE and CBPS. So like that will be the reason 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:07.160 that though the specific charges. Right, that is the easiest 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.080 way to denaturalize someone. I was going to say the 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:12.279 only way, but I think there are technically other ways. 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:14.159 But like the bulk of times you're going to see 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:18.440 someone denaturalized, it's because they concealed previously, it had been 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:21.200 that they had concealed like some loyalty to like like 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:24.599 a terrorist group, right, or perhaps there are bars for 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:28.680 like communists and Nazis, like like with capital letters. I'm 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:31.720 not talking about the political affiliation. I'm talking about like 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:34.680 being a member of a party with a party card there, 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:37.159 and I'm not talking about it the view necessarily. 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.920 Yeah, that's a whole other like tangent, there's there's back 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.080 and forth rules. If you can really denaturalize someone for 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:45.320 being a member of a communist party, still depends what 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:46.600 they mean by communist party. 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:48.040 Yeah, that's kind of like a vague term. 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.479 But the false statements in relation to naturalization, as in 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:55.240 allegedly lying on the form by checking a box that 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.040 conflicts with what the federal government is alleging, is a 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:04.080 much more clear route to denaturalization. One of the people 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:09.280 charged is a green card holder from Liberia who immigrated 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:13.880 as a refugee in nineteen ninety eight, named David Newilli. 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:18.640 He's currently seventy three years old. He allegedly registered to 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:20.600 vote in New Jersey in two thousand and three and 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:24.719 attested he was a US citizen. The complaint claims Nuelly 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:28.159 voted by mail in the twenty twenty general election and 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.359 submitted a provisional ballot in person on November fifth, twenty 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:35.160 twenty four, for that general election next May. It's May 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:39.000 twenty twenty five. Nuelly submitted a N four hundred claiming 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:43.039 he had never voted in the US, but admitted to 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:49.039 voting twice in the naturalization interview. Okay, he is charged 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:52.320 with voting by an alien in a federal election and 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:55.400 false statements. Yeah, those are the charges he's facing. 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:59.159 That's interesting because he seems to clarified in the interview, 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.640 right correct. I don't quite know how that works, but like. 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:05.760 He did admit in the interview that he that he 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:08.599 did vote, but they're still charging him with false statements 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:10.480 based on the N four hundred. 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:12.760 And it will be interesting to follow because it could 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:14.559 be pretty hard to stick the landing on that given 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:16.840 that he I mean, I guess technically what you put 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:19.280 on the form is there's no take backs, I guess, 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:21.920 But him using the interviewor to clarify it certainly seems 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:25.400 like he's trying to do what's in the spirit of 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:28.840 the things asking him to do. Yeah, there will be 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:29.920 an interesting one to follow. 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:34.920 This was also interesting because it shows the investigative capacity 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:37.360 of the FBI. This guy admitted to that, Like, he 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:39.720 admitted to this in the USCIS interview. 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:41.920 The FBI did not like crack the case. 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.000 Yeah, yeah, like there, yeah, yeah, definitely, Yeah, he told 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:46.440 he told the cops that he did it. 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:47.120 Yeah. 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:49.120 When was his USCIS interview. 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:53.080 I'm not sure when the interview was. He submitted the 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:55.360 N four hundred in May twenty twenty five, okay, so 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.920 Trump two, it would have been in late twenty twenty five. Yeah, 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:00.560 this was at least with an last year. 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:01.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. Some of those N four 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:04.760 hundred is thing forever now totally. It's kind of interesting. 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:08.400 But yeah, I'm just wondering to what extent previously, I 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:11.360 don't actually know, to an extent previously USCAS would like 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:12.960 refer people for prosecution. 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:15.200 Yeah, that is that is a good question. 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:15.600 Yeah. 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:18.680 Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, now here here is August 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:21.560 twenty twenty five. Okay, was when he was interviewed, according 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:24.440 to the criminal complaint, relatively first turnaround. 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:26.320 Yeah, I wonder if that's just a part of the 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:30.840 country he's in or whether that was because like they 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.400 wanted to get in the office, right. And then I 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.880 had to clarify or detain him because he had voted. 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:41.160 And then in October, USCIS denied the application due to 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:43.719 a lawful acts of voting in the twenty twenty and 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.360 twenty twenty four elections and the false statement on the 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.679 end of four hundred. Yeah, we will take an ad 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:52.640 break here and then talk about the three other cases 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:54.520 after these messages. 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:06.280 All right, we are back. 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:11.559 Iden Koresh, forty three years old, is a Green Card 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:14.800 holder who immigrated from Israel on a B two visa 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:19.840 in twenty fifteen. In twenty twenty one, Koresh allegedly registered 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:22.079 to vote in New Jersey, asserting he was a US citizen, 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:25.199 and voted in person in the twenty twenty two midterm election. 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:29.880 Koresh later submitted an N four hundred and twenty twenty 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:33.800 five based on his charges, I believe his citizenship was 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:37.360 granted because he's charged with voting by an alien in 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:42.280 a federal election and procurement of citizenship or naturalization unlawfully. 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.040 A lot of these criminal complaints are quite short, around 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:49.559 seven pages, okay. Jasynthic Zoom is a seventy. 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:52.120 Year old Green card holder who. 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:55.199 Has lived in the US since two thousand after immigrating 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:59.880 from Jamaica. She allegedly registered to vote in twenty eighteen 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.440 and voted by mail in the twenty twenty general election. 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:06.080 She submitted an N four hundred and twenty twenty one 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.400 and was granted citizenship based on what the DOJ is 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:13.600 calling false statements. She's charged with two counts of false 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.600 statements in relation to naturalization. 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.280 Two counts would be I guess, registering to vote and voting. 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.800 She's oddly one of the ones who's not actually charged 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:27.959 with voting in a federal election. She's just charged with 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.760 two false statements. This is I think one in the 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:32.520 interview and the other on the end. 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.439 Four hundred Oh okay, yeah, that can make sense to Yeah, yeah, 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:39.240 it's interesting they didn't charge Maybe, like I guess they're 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:42.120 like eyes on the prize, trying to denaturalize someone. 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:43.960 Yeah, I mean, but like a big part of the 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:47.000 FBI's messaging in this is, you know, we found people 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:51.280 who illegally voted, but half of the people here aren't 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:54.680 actually charged with that, and I don't quite know why. 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:58.200 Maybe it's theoretically possible to charge could be added later, 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:02.079 but at least in the original criminal complaints issued when 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:06.080 DJ made the announcement, Egzoom is not actually charged with voting, 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.120 even though even though the criminal complaint says that she did, 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:10.120 but it's not one. 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:13.320 Of the charges. Yeah, the normal pattern with federal charges 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.600 is to have a lot of charges, and like most 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:20.040 of these federal cases will end in plea bargains, right 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:23.280 because the exposure is so high. So yeah, it's interesting 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:26.000 that that's not there when normally the patents to put 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:27.800 as much as you can in front of the person 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:29.480 so that you end up with a plea vargain. 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:34.840 This last guy is also not charged with illegally voting 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:39.200 in a federal election. Being a done Vig is a 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:41.880 thirty three year old Green card holder who immigrated from 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:45.120 India in twenty twelve. He's alleged to a registered to 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.760 vote in twenty sixteen and subsequently voted in person for 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:50.160 the twenty sixteen general election, and then by mail in 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:53.840 twenty twenty. Vig later submitted an end four hundred and 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:57.479 twenty twenty three, but he only faces one charge, procurement 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:59.840 of citizenship or naturalization unlawfully. 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:01.640 So again, a lot of these charges. 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:03.280 Even even though the criminal complaints allege a lot of 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:08.400 the same stuff, the actual charges vary greatly, and it's 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:10.800 it is unclear why exactly that is. 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.400 Yeah, I think different. They're all in New Jersey, all 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:16.040 New Jersey, say same years, say it tourney, Yeah, yeah, 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:20.080 it's it's interesting. It'll be interesting to follow those cases 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:21.920 as well. Like I know, like I said that they 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:26.400 have some sort of denaturalization targets, so whether they're just 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:29.800 focusing their energies on that. It could be a case. 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:32.240 So it could be something to do with the specifics 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:34.640 of that crime that I just don't know about. Voting 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:35.360 will not as citizen. 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:39.680 Yeah, there could be some prosecutorial reason that they aren't 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:41.959 pursuing it in certain cases but are in others. 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.240 Yeah, And they're all alleged to voting in federal elections, right, 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:46.640 that's yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.880 In at least one federal election, either presidential, general, election 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:51.160 or midterm general election. 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:51.720 Yeah. 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:55.600 And New Jersey does not have like local election voting 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:56.839 for non citizens. 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:57.800 Yeah. 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:02.080 A few days before Patel announced the arrests on Fox News, 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.360 the Department of Justice sent a letter to the chief 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:09.120 election official for Wayne County, Michigan, demanding Wayne County hand 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:13.240 over all ballots from the twenty twenty four election. The 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.320 letter said that DOJ and its Civil Rights Division is 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.600 authorized to investigate and prosecute individuals who may have registered 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.680 to vote or voted in violation of US law. The 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:27.520 letter included three instances of recorded allegations and convictions in 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:32.600 Wayne County in quote unquote recent years related to voting fraud. 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:35.880 This pushed by the DOJ to get their hands on 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.439 ballots or voter rolls is part of a much larger pattern. 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.160 In January, during Operation Metro Surge in Minneapolis, one of 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:48.599 the demands from now former Attorney General Pambondi during negotiations 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:51.000 with Governor Tim Walls was for the DOJ to be 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:54.800 granted access to the state of Minnesota's voter roles quote 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:58.959 to confirm that Minnesota's voter registration practices comply with federal 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:04.199 law unquote. Trump's DOJ has actually sued over thirty states 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:07.480 for not complying with requests to gain access to their 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:12.199 voter rules. Cases against Arizona, Massachusetts, Rhode Island have been dismissed, 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:16.080 as have cases in California, Michigan, and Oregon, but the 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.800 DOJ is appealing those rulings. At least fifteen states have 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.240 complied or said they will comply with requests by handing 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:27.640 over voter registration lists, including driver's license and social security numbers. 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:34.920 These are largely red states Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, Ohio, Oklahoma, 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:40.760 South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, and Wyoming. In a 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.760 March hearing in the case against Rhode Island to gain 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:47.520 access to their voter rules, Eric Neff, the acting chief 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.000 of the Voting Section of the Civil Rights Division of 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:54.280 the DOJ, said that after receiving the voter rules quote, 0:14:54.480 --> 0:15:00.120 our intention is to run this against DHS's SAVE database unquote. 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:04.920 That's the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlement database here eause. 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.520 If don want to briefly explain what this database is 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:08.640 and how it's used. 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.120 In very basic terms, it is a database, so you 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:15.960 have like everified. Right, will be an example of a 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.320 DHS database that employers can use to check if somebody 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:22.160 is able to accept employment legally in the United States. 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:22.440 Right. 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:26.600 Save is there for government agencies, not individuals, and they 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:30.000 should be able to determine whether or not somebody is 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:31.760 eligible for certain benefits. 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:31.960 Right. 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.520 There are things called public charge rules. If people want 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:37.960 a more in depth explanation of public charge rules, you 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:41.640 can scroll all the way back to November twenty twenty 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.560 four when I made a podcast about these things. We 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:47.120 looked at a number of tools that the Trump administration 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:51.640 might use to try and deportantly naturalize people in a 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:55.280 podcast episode back then. The problem with these databases is 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:59.640 they're not very good. The most obvious and amusing examples 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:03.960 of Verify not being very good when state agencies hire 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:08.160 cops who DHS claims are not legally able to work 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:11.320 in the United States and then the state agencies point 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:15.440 out that they used Everify, which is DHS's own tool 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:19.720 for verifying, and then everyone gets quiet and wonders like, 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:21.040 who screwed up here? 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:21.240 Right? 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.440 Because they have done their obligation right, large employers have 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:28.200 to use everify the same is true, I imagine for 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:32.680 SAVE right in that it is not a database which 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:38.440 is perfect, and so running one against the other. Also 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.800 that the phrase running here is doing a lot of work, right, 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:44.800 Like are they going to look for name matches? Are 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:47.920 they going to look for Social Security number or driver's 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.360 licensed matches? Certain non citizens will have what's called an 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:54.960 iti N on SSN. There are a lot of ways 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.320 which this could go horribly wrong. There's a reason that 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:02.160 these two databases are not normally combined. Not to mention 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:07.119 the fact that this provides a really large disincentive for 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:10.640 people a signing up for benefits, right, which we've already 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.320 seen just the rhetoric from the Trump administration in the 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:18.800 campaign provided a disincentive for people accessing benefits, but also 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:22.160 for people registering to vote, right Like, Yeah, people who 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.879 are of diaspora communities, whether or not they are citizens, 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.280 will be concerned about this. And that is not a 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.920 that it's not an unconscious side effect. I'm sure, right, 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:35.320 that is something that they are extremely aware of as 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:36.320 they go forward doing this. 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:41.240 The Court raised concerns about SAVE and said that there 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.960 has been reporting of people being falsely identified as non 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:51.440 citizens in SAVES database. But Eric Neff responded that according 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:55.879 to the DHS, the accuracy rate of the SAVE database 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:57.639 is one hundred percent. 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:02.080 So I'm sure that's fine. That's just no database of 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:03.000 the skills it. 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:06.440 No, that's just mathematically impossible, Like it's yeah, ninety nine 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:09.640 percent and one percent are like vastly, vastly different. 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:23.040 Yeah, but it's worth noting that, like in Trump's one 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.320 of his early executive orders, like like Spring of twenty five, 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:30.720 the one about preserving the integrity of American elections, part 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:33.439 of what he asks them to do there was to 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:38.560 overhaul SAVE and make it like a a single source 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:42.959 citizenship verification yeah database, which it is not, and it 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:43.560 is still not. 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:46.440 Yeah, and there's there's there that is that push from 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:48.720 the executive order a few months ago to create like 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:50.159 state citizenship lists. 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:50.960 M h. 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:53.600 Yeah. They've tried to go a number of ways about this, right. 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.359 They also the fall of last year, the integrated SAVE 0:18:56.400 --> 0:19:00.800 with the with the passport database. I think most people 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:04.960 will be aware that there are millions of American citizens 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.680 who don't have passports for instance, right. Yeah, they've added 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.479 some other stuff, right, but the idea here is to 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.680 create like and it should worry everyone, right, Like, this 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:18.520 is a citizenship database that they will then attempt to 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:23.280 combine with their biometric databases. I'm sure, and we've seen 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:26.360 this with like the the name of the android app 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:28.240 is eluding me. Now there's an android app that ICE 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:31.200 officers have which is supposed to verify someone's status based 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:34.480 on a facial recognition scan. We know it doesn't work 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:37.520 because there was one, for example, one lady who was 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:42.919 scanned twice. Each result returned it different. Yeah, neither of 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:48.360 which was her. This stuff is extremely dangerous for anyone, right, 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:49.960 Like you'd be a citizen or a non cenizen. The 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.639 idea that they're going to check you against like the 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.440 list of legit Americans should really worry people. 0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:01.840 Yeah, and unable to pass the Save Act in Congress. 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:03.960 Not to be confused for the same database, though they 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:07.480 are slightly related. Yeah, but unable to pass that in Congress. 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.960 The Trump signed executive order last March attempting to force 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:14.200 the Postal Service to not deliver mail in ballots if 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:17.480 the voter on the ballot does not appear on this 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.400 newly created list of pre approved voters using this state 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:24.360 citizenship list. Yeah, we'll see if that actually goes through, 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:26.760 but that it's another example of them, you know, trying 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:30.600 to trying to use state citizenship lists to just crack 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:32.840 down on the number of people that are able to vote. 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:36.119 Yeah, we can all imagine that this will have different 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:40.520 impacts across different demographics, right, and that is very much 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:41.400 not accidental. 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:46.400 And the last thing for the voter roles in Fulton County, Georgia, 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:50.760 and Maricopa County, Arizona, the federal government has simply seized 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:55.399 voting records. In Arizona, the FBI successfully subpoena twenty twenty 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:59.480 election records from Maracopa County, and in Georgia, the FBI 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:04.480 rated election warehouse in January after dubiously obtaining a search warrant. 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:05.480 Yeah. 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:09.399 Then on May sixth, a federal judge ruled that the 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:13.399 federal government can keep the twenty twenty election materials that 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:17.640 were seized in that raid, even if quote, the seizure 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:21.639 in this case was certainly not perfect. 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:22.640 Yeah. 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:26.119 Maricopa County's an interesting one, right, Like, but I think 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:29.840 it's part of a grand jury investigation. Yes, yeah, I 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:33.560 can remember at the time, and there's a twenty twenty election, 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:38.879 like Maricopa County's results being somehow contentious, the State Center 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:42.639 did their own investigation into that, like several entities have. 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.800 Right, the details of that investigation is in part what 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:48.600 was the target of the grand jury subpoena. 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.159 Okay, not so much Maracopa County, but a number of 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:54.879 Arizona counties were really important in the results of the 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:58.600 twenty twenty election. Right, there was a massive effort for turnout. 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:02.120 I personally know people in indigenous communities who literally traveled 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:05.800 for the entire day to vote. The indigenous turnout, especially 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:08.320 Indigenous women in Arizona, really did make a big difference 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:09.240 in the twenty twenty election. 0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:14.000 And Americopa County is the like by population, the biggest county. 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:17.600 Americopa County is fast. A number of other like Arizona counties, 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:21.760 like outside Americopa, were also really pivotal in twenty twenty elections. 0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:24.879 It's not surprising to see those ones being tied, Like 0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:26.679 it wasn't surprising to me the time to see them 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.520 being targeted. You know, Yeah, americop is where Phoenix is 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:31.800 just for people to put it on the map, famous 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:35.879 for having really great law enforcement over the years, Joe 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:38.480 Opio was America do you share if. 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:43.040 You Oh, yes, ah, last from the past. 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:47.439 Yeah, yeah, not so often. Isn't he like doing some 0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:49.720 running for office or something? I thought he. 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:52.119 Was was he was for a bit. I have not 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:54.400 thought of Joe Opio for a few years though. 0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:57.640 What a life to lead. Yeah, it's been a while. 0:22:58.480 --> 0:22:58.760 Wow. 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:01.000 Joe Opio born innineteen thirty two. 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:02.560 That's that's wild. 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:09.639 Yeah, he can't be even for the United States even cheritocracy. 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:11.200 A little, Yeah, but no. 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:16.760 Trump does continue to truth claims about Fulton County on 0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:19.240 his On his account of a few nights ago, he 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:23.520 put out a video of the election board. The video 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:26.680 was edited to appear as if it was implying that 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:31.440 there was voter fraud or that the elections were conducted improperly, 0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:34.400 and when that was not what the video is actually 0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:38.440 actually showing. But he has his truth a lot after 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:41.720 the raid. That to watch out for the results of 0:23:41.760 --> 0:23:46.000 the of the Fulton County election raid and now federal 0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:50.280 judges letting the fence keep the materials that they seized, 0:23:50.400 --> 0:23:53.520 even if it was in the judge's own words, certainly 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:54.120 not perfect. 0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:55.080 Yeah. 0:23:55.400 --> 0:23:59.320 I think Fulton County plays a load bearing role in 0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:02.280 the in maga understanding of the twenty twenty election, right. 0:24:02.600 --> 0:24:05.840 Yeah, and Trump, So that is where he got the 0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:08.159 mugshot taken right like this is like he is, Oh, 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:11.240 I've forgotten about that personal vendetta against Fulton County. 0:24:11.359 --> 0:24:14.320 Yes, yeah, yeah, that totally makes sense. Up Pier by 0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:16.320 the way, did run for mayor of Fountain Hills in 0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:21.159 twenty twenty four. Oh my god, yeah, just eight years 0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:26.680 before it's underdth birthday. What a country. Oh, it's incredible 0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:30.480 he did. He received whopping one five and twenty seven 0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:34.040 votes in the primary election. It's a thousand people who 0:24:34.080 --> 0:24:37.920 thought the best hope we have is someone who is 0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:41.919 approaching Sheriff Joe at nearly a century of age. 0:24:42.640 --> 0:24:45.280 Remarkable well with age, cubs wisdom. 0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:46.840 Yeah, up to a point. 0:24:47.600 --> 0:24:49.720 That doesn't for us today at a good half of 0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:50.040 the year. 0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:52.760 We will keep a lookout for any more any more 0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:56.080 arrests by Patel, who claims to have all the evidence 0:24:56.119 --> 0:24:59.359 he needs, even though he only arrests so far is 0:24:59.400 --> 0:25:01.399 just a fill people from New Jersey and then I 0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:04.600 think one other person from Pennsylvania. Yeah, it was arrested 0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:07.960 like in March. Again because the actual number of voter 0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:10.960 fraun this country. Is it's minimal, according to according to 0:25:11.040 --> 0:25:13.640 all investigations we've seen so far, very low. 0:25:14.240 --> 0:25:16.639 It's statistically insignificant. 0:25:16.240 --> 0:25:19.320 Yes, very low, to the point where it's statistically insignificant. 0:25:19.359 --> 0:25:20.760 I think if you're going to be conserned of an 0:25:20.800 --> 0:25:25.040 election rigging looking at the way that partisan jerrymandering has 0:25:25.040 --> 0:25:29.880 been completely completely allowed to go through and gerrymandering over 0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:32.320 districts that were protected by the voting right, Zach. 0:25:32.560 --> 0:25:34.840 Look at what that is. Polling places are. Look at 0:25:34.880 --> 0:25:37.560 the like the electoral college exists to be in between 0:25:37.600 --> 0:25:39.919 the popular vote and the result of the of the election. Right, 0:25:39.920 --> 0:25:42.120 there are there are many things which distort the will 0:25:42.160 --> 0:25:46.400 of the people. Non citizens voting is not statistically significant 0:25:46.400 --> 0:25:49.879 in that, like, it's just not. But this will have 0:25:49.880 --> 0:25:53.359 a real electoral outcome, or is I guess because it 0:25:53.640 --> 0:25:57.440 will dissuade people from voting. It will dissuade people who 0:25:57.440 --> 0:25:59.920 have become US citizens from voting. It will dissuade people 0:26:00.040 --> 0:26:02.440 who were born as US citizens. 0:26:02.160 --> 0:26:04.600 And they could be pursuing charges against election officials in 0:26:04.680 --> 0:26:06.560 some of these states, and like that is part of 0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:09.080 trying to seize these these ballots and voter roles is 0:26:09.119 --> 0:26:12.760 not just to charge the possibly for people who may 0:26:12.800 --> 0:26:15.639 have illegally voted, but then trying to put some of 0:26:15.680 --> 0:26:18.600 the blame on election officials themselves. And yeah, and that 0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:21.440 is modi of intimidation is certainly part of the goal here. 0:26:21.800 --> 0:26:24.879 And that's written explicitly in some of these executive orders 0:26:25.119 --> 0:26:28.800 threatening charges against US officials for allowing certain mail in 0:26:28.880 --> 0:26:31.800 votes to be to be counted. Yeah, when the Trump 0:26:31.800 --> 0:26:33.320 administration claims that they should not be. 0:26:33.680 --> 0:26:37.560 Yeah. The nascence of this whole thing is Trump's calls 0:26:37.600 --> 0:26:41.520 to electoral officials in Georgia, right, like the Fulton County, 0:26:41.760 --> 0:26:44.800 the whole Yeah, fine, by find those votes. Yeah, yeah, 0:26:45.480 --> 0:26:46.240 where it all began. 0:26:47.240 --> 0:26:49.640 So yeah, we'll keep up on this as it develops 0:26:49.880 --> 0:26:51.399 leading into the midterm election. 0:26:52.400 --> 0:26:56.240 But bye bye for now. Yeah, but early vote often, voter, 0:26:56.280 --> 0:27:12.000 early vote often. Hello and welcome, Dick. Could happen here 0:27:12.160 --> 0:27:15.120 a very special episode today because I am lucky enough 0:27:15.119 --> 0:27:16.720 to be joined by Molly Kong. 0:27:16.960 --> 0:27:17.080 Hi. 0:27:17.160 --> 0:27:19.800 Molly, Hi, James, thanks for having me. I'm excited to 0:27:19.800 --> 0:27:21.119 hear about today's topic. 0:27:21.640 --> 0:27:25.320 Yeah, today's topic is buffalo. If if it's just came 0:27:25.400 --> 0:27:29.040 up on your phone without you clicking it, So I guess, look, buffalo. 0:27:29.200 --> 0:27:33.000 When people imagine the great planes before European colonization, I 0:27:33.040 --> 0:27:39.199 think buffalo are the fauna that they particularly imagine being present. 0:27:39.320 --> 0:27:39.560 Right. 0:27:39.720 --> 0:27:42.280 It's such a romantic image, right, and they're gone now, 0:27:42.320 --> 0:27:44.679 but they were one so many. Like every time we 0:27:44.760 --> 0:27:47.199 drive through southwest Virginia. I'm in central Virginia, So when 0:27:47.200 --> 0:27:50.800 we drive through southwestern Virginia, my husband always brings up 0:27:50.840 --> 0:27:53.920 this account that he read of someone witnessing the buffalo 0:27:54.400 --> 0:27:56.080 stampeding through the Cumberland Gap. 0:27:56.359 --> 0:27:58.399 Like we're oh wow, yeah, right. 0:27:58.240 --> 0:28:00.760 Down on the tip of southwestern Virginia and just looking 0:28:00.760 --> 0:28:03.679 at that place and imagining buffalo there, like you have 0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:04.480 to romanticize it. 0:28:04.480 --> 0:28:05.120 That's incredible. 0:28:05.359 --> 0:28:09.000 Yeah, that's sick. One of the coolest like American experiences 0:28:09.040 --> 0:28:12.560 I've ever had, Maybe seven or eight years ago, now, 0:28:12.600 --> 0:28:17.160 I was bike packing in the Colorado Wyoming border up there, 0:28:17.680 --> 0:28:20.760 and I was with some friends. We've been like maybe 0:28:20.760 --> 0:28:22.399 we're like three or four days in, you know, like 0:28:22.440 --> 0:28:24.720 where you kind of hit the sweet spot at that 0:28:24.760 --> 0:28:26.879 point when you like have it showered for that long 0:28:26.960 --> 0:28:29.280 and you're just kind of disconnected from the world, that's 0:28:29.320 --> 0:28:32.240 when it starts to get Molly's making a face fun. 0:28:32.520 --> 0:28:35.320 You can't see just four days of human stink, it 0:28:35.440 --> 0:28:36.480 really starts to get good. 0:28:36.800 --> 0:28:38.680 That's when it gets good because you're just like, that's 0:28:38.840 --> 0:28:41.320 how long it takes to disconnect, right, somethoking at your 0:28:41.360 --> 0:28:44.320 phone and like worrying about not smelling the. 0:28:44.680 --> 0:28:46.920 Stuff, becoming a beast of the outdoors. 0:28:47.040 --> 0:28:49.520 Yeah, you just returned to your feral self. I'd like 0:28:49.560 --> 0:28:51.520 to return to my feral self as often as possible. 0:28:51.560 --> 0:28:54.680 But we're like riding. I get where we're going at Walden. 0:28:54.760 --> 0:28:59.440 Maybe we're coming off this big plateau dropping into this 0:28:59.480 --> 0:29:02.480 big kind of like where it gets kind of more plane, 0:29:02.880 --> 0:29:06.280 e big big kind of meadow plane. And we're coming 0:29:06.280 --> 0:29:09.240 down there and it's a few of us and these 0:29:09.480 --> 0:29:12.760 buffalo just come like from the side of us, and 0:29:12.800 --> 0:29:16.360 they're running alongside us, right, and we're riding and we're cooking, 0:29:16.600 --> 0:29:19.040 going twenty twenty five miles an hour or something like that, 0:29:19.920 --> 0:29:22.320 and these buffalo are just cruising next to us because 0:29:22.320 --> 0:29:23.920 they're just trying to get like trying to check out, 0:29:23.960 --> 0:29:28.080 like what are these weirdos doing? And they're just like, 0:29:28.120 --> 0:29:29.600 why the fuck would you put all your stuff on 0:29:29.600 --> 0:29:31.600 a bicycle? And go ride around like this and then 0:29:31.640 --> 0:29:33.520 we're like, oh, it's a fucking buffalo, and like for 0:29:33.680 --> 0:29:37.280 like maybe a mile, they just kind of wanted to 0:29:37.320 --> 0:29:38.880 keep this thing that they just wanted to keep tabs 0:29:38.880 --> 0:29:40.520 on us as we're going down this dirt road and 0:29:40.560 --> 0:29:42.280 then like they were getting really close, right, so they're 0:29:42.280 --> 0:29:44.520 like kicking up all this dust, and you got to 0:29:44.560 --> 0:29:46.640 feel like you are like almost one of the buffalo. 0:29:46.720 --> 0:29:49.840 You know, you're in the herd traversing the planes. 0:29:49.920 --> 0:29:52.760 I think you're supposed to keep your distance from them, right, Yeah, 0:29:54.120 --> 0:29:54.440 they were. 0:29:54.640 --> 0:29:58.160 We didn't have many choice at that point. Yeah, when 0:29:58.200 --> 0:30:01.240 they're like, do not approach. Yeah, they were approaching us. 0:30:01.680 --> 0:30:04.640 We didn't stop. I was like pretty pretty keen on 0:30:04.960 --> 0:30:07.040 not stopping. And Molly is right. 0:30:07.240 --> 0:30:09.200 They look so pettable, but they're really not. 0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:13.080 They're really Yeah, despite their fluffy appearance. It's it's advised. 0:30:13.200 --> 0:30:16.160 Like any time in the Yellowstone pretty much, especially in 0:30:16.200 --> 0:30:19.800 these summer months, you will find a video tourist approaching 0:30:20.120 --> 0:30:23.880 a buffalo and regretting that scision pretty big. I've been 0:30:23.880 --> 0:30:27.360 going by a bowl before and I would like to 0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:30.680 keep it to one. Going for me. 0:30:30.760 --> 0:30:32.880 One is all most people get. 0:30:33.200 --> 0:30:35.520 Yeah, yeah, it is. I was pretty let me tell you, 0:30:35.560 --> 0:30:37.240 I thought that one was all I was going to get. 0:30:37.280 --> 0:30:39.480 I was I was ready to make my peace of 0:30:39.520 --> 0:30:42.479 the world. Luckily I got a second chance. 0:30:43.640 --> 0:30:43.840 Yeah. 0:30:43.840 --> 0:30:46.440 People kind of focus on a buffalo, right, They ignore 0:30:46.880 --> 0:30:51.960 many of the other species that we lost during dis 0:30:51.960 --> 0:30:56.840 intent period of ecological destruction, right, And I can see why. Really, 0:30:56.880 --> 0:30:59.600 you can find images of piles of dead buffalo skulls. 0:31:00.080 --> 0:31:02.240 There's that really haunting image of the idea of killing 0:31:02.240 --> 0:31:05.760 animals only for their capes or their tongues. Often this 0:31:05.880 --> 0:31:09.800 period of genocidal violence is referred to as a buffalo genocide, 0:31:10.160 --> 0:31:15.800 and I think that encapsulates, right, not just the destruction 0:31:16.360 --> 0:31:20.680 of the buffalo population, but also of the indigenous cultures 0:31:20.720 --> 0:31:23.160 that relied on that buffalo population and of the ecology 0:31:23.200 --> 0:31:25.880 they went with. Obviously, when I say destruction, I'm not 0:31:25.920 --> 0:31:28.840 saying they've gone very much till here till present, but 0:31:29.160 --> 0:31:33.440 the attempt by the government and capitalism to remove those 0:31:33.480 --> 0:31:35.920 people from that land. But yeah, it is a shame 0:31:36.000 --> 0:31:38.520 that these other animals don't get a fat shake. Have 0:31:38.560 --> 0:31:39.920 you ever seen a blackfooted ferret? 0:31:40.800 --> 0:31:42.640 When you said there was going to be something about ferrets, 0:31:42.640 --> 0:31:45.200 I was thinking about it, and I realized all domesticated 0:31:45.240 --> 0:31:48.760 animals were wild animals, and it never occurred to me 0:31:48.800 --> 0:31:50.160 that a ferret could live outside. 0:31:51.000 --> 0:31:54.680 Yeah, a ferret thrives in the outdoors. I really wanted 0:31:54.720 --> 0:31:56.880 to have ferrets when I was younger, Like I enjoyed 0:31:57.240 --> 0:32:00.000 the presence of ferrets. I enjoyed working with ferrets. 0:32:00.600 --> 0:32:03.280 Oh, he's kind of cute in a way. 0:32:04.280 --> 0:32:07.959 He's gross. The ferrets are very sweet. Yeah, we had 0:32:08.680 --> 0:32:10.320 we had friend with ferrets growing up, so we would 0:32:10.360 --> 0:32:12.400 use them to They use them to catch rabbits in 0:32:12.400 --> 0:32:16.360 the UK, right. Oh. Yeah. The reason that these guys 0:32:16.400 --> 0:32:19.640 struggle to get back on the landscape is because they 0:32:19.760 --> 0:32:23.320 need massive prairie dog towns to feed of. 0:32:23.600 --> 0:32:26.400 Oh do they live in like societies? Do they live 0:32:26.440 --> 0:32:29.200 like a prairie dog's? So the ferrets live in like 0:32:29.560 --> 0:32:30.440 ferret villages. 0:32:30.640 --> 0:32:32.800 The ferrets predate the prairie dogs. 0:32:33.080 --> 0:32:34.480 But do they live in like a village. 0:32:34.520 --> 0:32:36.080 I don't know if they live in like I don't 0:32:36.080 --> 0:32:38.840 know what their social structure is. In Colorado, there's a 0:32:38.920 --> 0:32:42.400 National Blackfooted Ferret Center where you can go and see them. 0:32:42.960 --> 0:32:46.440 I've cycled past it, but I regret not going in 0:32:46.480 --> 0:32:48.560 maybe I'll make a special trip reach out if you're 0:32:48.600 --> 0:32:49.520 with the ferret people. 0:32:49.960 --> 0:32:51.400 Sorry, I said, he looks gross. 0:32:51.840 --> 0:32:55.040 Yeah, please don't counsel us, because the prairie dog towns 0:32:55.040 --> 0:32:58.760 can collapse, right, really, their populations can collapse pretty easily. 0:32:58.840 --> 0:33:01.240 They get like infecta's disease is so they need like 0:33:01.280 --> 0:33:04.440 a massive number of prairie dog towns in order to 0:33:04.680 --> 0:33:07.400 have a sustainable genetically these ferret population. 0:33:07.720 --> 0:33:08.920 Oh, I get it, I get it. 0:33:09.480 --> 0:33:11.479 And because we don't have those right, because they are 0:33:11.480 --> 0:33:15.200 not generally amenable to agriculture, and then the ecosystem is 0:33:15.240 --> 0:33:17.120 very different from it what it's naturally worse. That means 0:33:17.480 --> 0:33:19.680 I don't know if there are any there are when 0:33:19.720 --> 0:33:23.360 they're not extinct genetically but ecologically, in terms of their 0:33:23.400 --> 0:33:26.240 participation in the ecosystem, I don't think there are any. 0:33:27.200 --> 0:33:28.800 Very fair I think there are some in the Charles 0:33:28.880 --> 0:33:33.400 Russell Wildlife Refuge, but very few blackfooted ferrets, which is 0:33:33.400 --> 0:33:35.280 a shame because of their cool little guys. 0:33:35.680 --> 0:33:37.200 I mean, I guess, given what we did to the 0:33:37.360 --> 0:33:40.360 landscape of so much of the country, I'm sure there 0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:43.160 are other animals that just like their niche is gone. 0:33:43.600 --> 0:33:46.040 Yeah, and that is exactly what I want to talk 0:33:46.040 --> 0:33:48.760 about today, right, Like, specifically I want to talk about 0:33:48.760 --> 0:33:53.720 buffalo because of the canceling of some public land grazingly 0:33:53.800 --> 0:33:57.280 since of buffalo, before we do that, Molley, we should 0:33:57.360 --> 0:34:02.320 talk about the terminology, right, Buffalo bison discussion. 0:34:02.160 --> 0:34:05.200 Right, because they're not buffalo, their bison bison bison. 0:34:06.560 --> 0:34:09.439 And as we are, what five minutes into this, someone 0:34:09.480 --> 0:34:12.120 has already logged onto Reddit. They have opened. 0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:15.200 Already made the threat already exists, that's already that address. 0:34:15.200 --> 0:34:15.719 It's too late. 0:34:15.960 --> 0:34:17.560 Yeah, we should have moved this to the to the 0:34:17.600 --> 0:34:19.440 front of the episode again, and that if that is 0:34:19.480 --> 0:34:24.960 you redditing, please stop. I am aware that scientifically we 0:34:25.000 --> 0:34:29.399 should call them bison. I don't care. English speaking people 0:34:29.440 --> 0:34:32.160 have been calling these animals buffalo since English speaking people 0:34:32.160 --> 0:34:34.920 came to this continent. They did so because the animals 0:34:34.920 --> 0:34:37.239 reminded them of Cape Buffalo. I actually have had a 0:34:37.239 --> 0:34:39.640 frame gored by a cape buffalo as well. We're going 0:34:39.680 --> 0:34:41.280 through most of my goring experience. 0:34:41.960 --> 0:34:44.400 You got to leave these big cow type creatures alone. 0:34:45.960 --> 0:34:49.880 He was ambushed that my my going was entirely my fault, 0:34:50.840 --> 0:34:53.160 like you shouldn't be unkind to animals, and I deserved it, 0:34:53.239 --> 0:34:56.440 and it was a good learning experience for me. It wasn't. 0:34:57.080 --> 0:34:59.919 I think it's just a bad overall experience. Being Gore 0:35:00.120 --> 0:35:01.000 wouldn't recommend it. 0:35:01.080 --> 0:35:01.839 I'm avoiding it. 0:35:02.239 --> 0:35:04.680 Yeah, you've got this far, you're probably good. I think 0:35:04.800 --> 0:35:07.040 men in their twenties are probably like peaple does. 0:35:07.400 --> 0:35:11.440 I think once you hit thirty, your odds decreased dramatically. 0:35:11.719 --> 0:35:13.920 Yeah, you're out the wind, unless you're working with cattle. 0:35:14.160 --> 0:35:15.799 Like my dad got pretty close a couple times when 0:35:15.800 --> 0:35:17.799 I was a kid. I remember jumping over a fence once, 0:35:17.840 --> 0:35:20.080 but I think that was more of a professional hazard 0:35:20.760 --> 0:35:23.879 than like a lifestyle choice. So here's the deal, Right, 0:35:24.080 --> 0:35:27.720 there are many species in the USA which have names 0:35:27.840 --> 0:35:30.600 similar to species on other continents that they are not 0:35:30.680 --> 0:35:34.239 the same European blackbirds and American blackbirds. 0:35:34.320 --> 0:35:34.480 Right. 0:35:34.800 --> 0:35:39.040 Robins would be another example. There is a different sheep's headfish. 0:35:39.160 --> 0:35:42.279 Almost everywhere I have gone underwater, everyone has a sheep's head. 0:35:42.520 --> 0:35:45.279 The coolest sheep's head for people wondering is California sheep's 0:35:45.280 --> 0:35:48.359 head because it undergoes a sex change, making it a 0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:51.680 pretty cool fish. Also, it gets really cool after it transitions. 0:35:51.719 --> 0:35:53.640 It gets like these black and red stripes. It's one 0:35:53.680 --> 0:35:56.320 of my favorite fish. If you want to be censurious 0:35:56.320 --> 0:35:58.759 about buffalo names, I would suggest picking one of the 0:35:59.040 --> 0:36:01.719 many Indigenous words that have been used to refer to 0:36:01.760 --> 0:36:04.920 his animal for far, far longer than buffalo or bison. Also, 0:36:04.960 --> 0:36:07.400 buffalo is one of the cooler words in English language. 0:36:07.480 --> 0:36:09.719 Buffalo, buffalo, buffalo, buffalo. 0:36:09.680 --> 0:36:10.520 Yes, exactly. 0:36:10.600 --> 0:36:10.799 Yes. 0:36:10.880 --> 0:36:14.040 It is the longest single word sentence because it's a 0:36:14.120 --> 0:36:16.080 down and a verb and a proper down right. 0:36:16.800 --> 0:36:19.319 Right like so it's it's buffalo, the city, buffalo, the 0:36:19.400 --> 0:36:22.560 animal buffalo, the verb meaning like what like to bully 0:36:22.680 --> 0:36:23.400 or something to like. 0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:25.279 Yeah, I don't know if you've been around them, but 0:36:25.320 --> 0:36:27.520 they do do this. They sort of bother the bush. 0:36:27.719 --> 0:36:28.000 Yeah. 0:36:28.080 --> 0:36:30.319 Yeah, yeah, I'm making of course at motion with my 0:36:30.360 --> 0:36:32.800 neck and shoulders. Not one apart from Molly can see. 0:36:33.120 --> 0:36:33.239 Uh. 0:36:33.640 --> 0:36:36.920 Yeah, they're they're they're just kind of aggressive in a 0:36:36.960 --> 0:36:40.799 sort of pokey and yeah, like it's a good verb. 0:36:40.920 --> 0:36:41.279 I don't know. 0:36:41.520 --> 0:36:44.000 Hang around what you watch a buffalo, you'll get it. Yeah, 0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:47.960 it's buffalo, the proper down buffalo, the nown buffalo, the 0:36:48.080 --> 0:36:53.840 verb buffalo, the proper down buffalo, the verb no. Buffalo 0:36:53.920 --> 0:36:55.120 the noun. 0:36:54.920 --> 0:36:56.239 I'm gonna have to diagram this one. 0:36:56.600 --> 0:36:56.799 Yeah. 0:36:56.840 --> 0:37:01.560 Yeah, like bison from upstate New York are bullying other 0:37:01.640 --> 0:37:03.160 bison from upstate New York. 0:37:03.360 --> 0:37:06.280 Yes, that is the a breakdown of the Buffalo sentence 0:37:06.680 --> 0:37:09.440 fun trivia for everybody. Yeah, that's yeah, they will do 0:37:09.480 --> 0:37:11.480 that the end of the year. Will quiz you why 0:37:11.520 --> 0:37:13.200 are we talking about Buffalo today? 0:37:13.320 --> 0:37:14.000 I can't remember. 0:37:14.480 --> 0:37:14.879 I can. 0:37:15.239 --> 0:37:17.799 Let me tell you. It's because the Bureau of Land 0:37:17.800 --> 0:37:22.200 Management has canceled grazing rights in seven allotments public land 0:37:22.320 --> 0:37:26.560 in Phillips County, Montana privately owned bison. And there's been 0:37:26.600 --> 0:37:29.960 a bunch of reporting on this, like when this stuff happens, 0:37:30.000 --> 0:37:34.560 when stuff the Trump administration does with public land, the outdoors, 0:37:35.360 --> 0:37:41.440 they're they're like Democrat blue wave, fake news, panic accounts, 0:37:41.480 --> 0:37:44.520 really really go kind of wild with it. They did 0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:48.239 with this one, right. I think people running whatever, like 0:37:48.360 --> 0:37:51.880 you know, Occupy Democrats and Suit Nation for Change Yeah whatever, 0:37:52.120 --> 0:37:53.560 yeah by Democrats. 0:37:53.960 --> 0:37:56.920 I forgot about pantsuit Nation. Wow, that's a real throwback. 0:37:57.360 --> 0:38:01.319 Yeah, I never forget about the Panasuit Nation. They live 0:38:01.400 --> 0:38:04.040 forever in my mind. What I think, like the people 0:38:04.120 --> 0:38:06.440 of that tendency have not realized is that these are 0:38:06.480 --> 0:38:10.200 not per se wild buffalo. It's not like these buffalo 0:38:10.239 --> 0:38:13.960 have individually, like oh, as a population survived the genocide, 0:38:14.040 --> 0:38:16.759 been holding out in this land of Phillips County for 0:38:16.840 --> 0:38:19.560 more than a century. Right. That doesn't mean that we 0:38:19.600 --> 0:38:22.360 should be like callous about this. We shouldn't, But I 0:38:22.400 --> 0:38:25.160 just want to explain a little more. I guess there 0:38:25.200 --> 0:38:29.160 are still thousands of buffalo across the West on federal 0:38:29.200 --> 0:38:32.279 and private land. Some of them have been raising on 0:38:32.320 --> 0:38:36.160 public land with permits for more than four decades. Having 0:38:36.160 --> 0:38:38.200 them on the landscape is a good thing, right. We 0:38:38.280 --> 0:38:41.200 need the genetic diversity, even if they're privately owned. 0:38:41.520 --> 0:38:41.680 Right. 0:38:41.719 --> 0:38:44.040 So it's not just like I don't know knowing very 0:38:44.040 --> 0:38:44.640 little about this. 0:38:44.719 --> 0:38:46.799 I think a lot of the discourse around these, like 0:38:46.840 --> 0:38:49.120 permits for grazing on public land, it's like, well, why 0:38:49.160 --> 0:38:52.040 should these farmers get to use our public land for 0:38:52.160 --> 0:38:55.239 their property for their cattle? And I don't know enough 0:38:55.239 --> 0:38:57.960 about that to care about that at all. But in 0:38:58.040 --> 0:39:02.040 terms of what buffalo due to the grassland, like just 0:39:02.160 --> 0:39:05.279 walking around on it and eating it is part of 0:39:05.360 --> 0:39:10.160 the maintenance of that grassland. Yes, yeah, like the eradication 0:39:10.200 --> 0:39:13.919 of the buffalo in the Midwest caused ecological havoc because 0:39:13.960 --> 0:39:15.680 we need them walking around and shitting on it. 0:39:15.960 --> 0:39:16.120 Yeah. 0:39:16.200 --> 0:39:20.200 Yeah, Specifically what we need is them coming in, eating everything, 0:39:20.440 --> 0:39:24.960 trampling around, shitting everywhere, and then leaving, right, because that 0:39:25.080 --> 0:39:27.839 is what like so many indigenous cultures had these like 0:39:28.160 --> 0:39:30.239 these like traditions that the buffalo go away in and 0:39:30.280 --> 0:39:32.720 we do a tradition and they come back. Right. This 0:39:32.760 --> 0:39:35.279 happens for a lot of migratory animals. It's not just buffalo, right, 0:39:35.760 --> 0:39:39.680 because it gave shape to time in people's lives. That's 0:39:39.719 --> 0:39:43.040 how they impacted the landscape, right. They didn't stay in 0:39:43.080 --> 0:39:48.040 one place. They moved through spaces. So like, if we 0:39:48.080 --> 0:39:52.520 want to restore this short grass prairie ecosystem, which is 0:39:52.920 --> 0:39:55.160 as it turns out, why people are putting buffalo on 0:39:55.160 --> 0:39:58.080 this particular land, then we need a lot of space 0:39:58.440 --> 0:40:00.879 to do it, and we need buffalo to be able 0:40:00.920 --> 0:40:06.280 to move around. Right. So people who own these particular 0:40:06.320 --> 0:40:10.400 buffalo are an NGO called American Prairie. You head of 0:40:10.400 --> 0:40:14.000 American Prairie used to be American Prairie Reserve, No American 0:40:14.000 --> 0:40:14.720 Prairie Foundation. 0:40:14.840 --> 0:40:18.160 Okay, great, are they the villains or are the heroes neither. 0:40:18.680 --> 0:40:22.239 I mean the Trump administration is the villains. Doug Bergham specifically, 0:40:22.239 --> 0:40:23.680 I guess is always God. 0:40:23.680 --> 0:40:25.080 I forgot about Doug Burgher. 0:40:25.440 --> 0:40:26.040 Yeah. 0:40:26.120 --> 0:40:31.600 Yeah, Fortunately Doug is now Interior Secretary, thanks to ARII 0:40:31.719 --> 0:40:35.480 for signing a letter endorsing him. Also, fuck you. American 0:40:35.480 --> 0:40:38.279 prairie is interesting. I guess, like, it's not what I 0:40:38.480 --> 0:40:41.680 would want, but I don't think it's evil. 0:40:42.160 --> 0:40:43.440 Sounds like most NGOs. 0:40:43.719 --> 0:40:46.960 Yeah, it sounds like most of the world as it exists. 0:40:47.520 --> 0:40:52.680 Not Yeah, then how I would do it. American prairie 0:40:52.760 --> 0:40:54.520 is a is a big engine. They've been trying for 0:40:54.560 --> 0:40:57.080 about a quarter of a century to buy up private 0:40:57.160 --> 0:41:01.480 land adjacent to public land around the Charles M. Russell 0:41:01.560 --> 0:41:05.240 National Wildlife Refuge and the Upper Missouri River breaks national money. 0:41:06.000 --> 0:41:09.480 So the goal is to create like by by like 0:41:09.640 --> 0:41:14.239 bridging these two pieces of public land, to create a 0:41:14.920 --> 0:41:18.799 massive reserve where like one of the things with with 0:41:18.920 --> 0:41:21.359 bison specifically right, they need a lot of space and 0:41:22.239 --> 0:41:24.640 very few bison can cross like political boundaries. 0:41:24.640 --> 0:41:25.680 They don't have passports. 0:41:25.960 --> 0:41:29.040 They don't. Yeah, this is one of their issues. They're undocumented, 0:41:29.120 --> 0:41:32.640 you could say, But think about the Yellowstone people get 0:41:32.719 --> 0:41:35.480 really mad about the Yellowstone bison leaving the park. This 0:41:35.520 --> 0:41:37.359 is a big deal. This has been a big deal 0:41:37.480 --> 0:41:37.680 for it. 0:41:38.080 --> 0:41:38.279 Yeah. 0:41:38.320 --> 0:41:40.200 Yeah, yeah, people like what like they're. 0:41:40.040 --> 0:41:42.440 Disney cast members, Like they're not allowed to leave in costo. 0:41:42.680 --> 0:41:44.960 Yeah, exactly, they have to return. 0:41:45.320 --> 0:41:46.040 Take that off. 0:41:46.440 --> 0:41:50.120 Yeah, take the body off and just wear their head. 0:41:50.320 --> 0:41:51.720 They can't be walking in the parking lot. 0:41:52.160 --> 0:41:54.040 Yeah, you can't see Mickey Mouse at Vonds like that 0:41:54.080 --> 0:41:56.719 would really ruin the magic. Yeah, people get mad at them, right, 0:41:56.719 --> 0:41:57.799 for a number of reasons. 0:41:58.080 --> 0:42:00.440 The bubble don't know about the park that. 0:42:00.880 --> 0:42:04.120 This is a thing, right and buffalo As it turns out, 0:42:04.600 --> 0:42:07.640 they love to disrespect a fence, which I respect. I 0:42:07.719 --> 0:42:08.359 like that about them. 0:42:08.400 --> 0:42:10.840 If I had shoulders like that, I would disrespect a fence. 0:42:11.280 --> 0:42:15.279 Yeah, they so like Cattle fencing is generally not sufficient 0:42:15.280 --> 0:42:19.600 for buffalo fencing. But buffalo fencing can be built people. 0:42:19.600 --> 0:42:22.840 It does exist when people are building it, it's better 0:42:22.880 --> 0:42:25.160 if they are conscious of other worldlife. Right, they can 0:42:25.640 --> 0:42:29.320 another of the megafauna in the megafauna that has existed 0:42:29.360 --> 0:42:32.040 here for for millenia, but it's now much much much 0:42:32.040 --> 0:42:34.640 lower numbers are like prong corn antelope. 0:42:34.719 --> 0:42:38.440 We have those here yes, I guess I don't really, 0:42:38.640 --> 0:42:41.440 I've never really been out west, so you are Mulley's 0:42:41.520 --> 0:42:42.000 out there. 0:42:42.520 --> 0:42:44.600 If you would like us to make a podcast where 0:42:44.680 --> 0:42:49.880 I take Molly camping, yeah, we just look at animals. 0:42:50.360 --> 0:42:52.759 That would be my ideal job, a podcast where I 0:42:52.920 --> 0:42:55.319 just talk to someone about an animal every week, Like 0:42:55.480 --> 0:42:58.200 we go camping, we see an animal, we talk about it. 0:42:58.920 --> 0:43:01.640 I didn't know ferret's lived outside. Like, think of all 0:43:01.680 --> 0:43:02.319 you could show me? 0:43:02.840 --> 0:43:06.200 Yeah, be amazing. Yeah, God, we could have so much 0:43:06.200 --> 0:43:09.080 fun if we start with the ferrets. Yeah, but prong 0:43:09.080 --> 0:43:10.760 horn are amazing. You've not seen a prong horn. 0:43:11.680 --> 0:43:13.680 They lived in Africa. And what am I thinking of? 0:43:13.760 --> 0:43:14.440 Like an ibex? 0:43:15.080 --> 0:43:17.680 Yeah, I mean ibex does live in Africa. I think 0:43:17.760 --> 0:43:20.080 some of them live on Okay, we're gonna. 0:43:20.320 --> 0:43:22.839 Oh man, everyone's finding out. I don't know. 0:43:22.840 --> 0:43:24.160 Anything podcast diversion. 0:43:24.719 --> 0:43:28.400 I'm googling prong horn antelope. Yeah, you see them, and 0:43:28.440 --> 0:43:29.760 these they are just out there. 0:43:30.280 --> 0:43:33.440 Yeah, they just like they they live on the landscape. 0:43:33.480 --> 0:43:39.000 They actually were massively numerous, like before the various extinction events. 0:43:39.120 --> 0:43:41.799 So it's like a like a reindeer that lives in Colorado. 0:43:42.840 --> 0:43:47.040 A reindeer reindeer are only reindeer in North America when 0:43:47.040 --> 0:43:51.000 they're in captivity Cariboo when they when they are wild 0:43:51.239 --> 0:43:52.280 picture of Cariboo. 0:43:52.480 --> 0:43:54.960 We don't really have a lot of like wild animals 0:43:54.960 --> 0:43:55.640 out here. 0:43:55.800 --> 0:43:58.760 Really see that this is yeah, because the East coast 0:43:58.760 --> 0:43:59.800 is much more urbanized. 0:44:00.160 --> 0:44:02.359 Like like like every now and again, a baby bear 0:44:02.400 --> 0:44:04.640 will wander into town and it's like big nicks. 0:44:05.480 --> 0:44:07.880 Okay, yeah, I like it when a bear there's another 0:44:07.880 --> 0:44:10.160 animal I have massive respect for. I love how they 0:44:10.200 --> 0:44:12.759 don't give a shit. I respect any animal that eats 0:44:12.760 --> 0:44:13.719 from the trash. 0:44:13.960 --> 0:44:14.160 Yeah. 0:44:14.520 --> 0:44:16.680 The prong horns are actually massive, Like I think antello 0:44:16.760 --> 0:44:19.680 cap pridie is the genus. And then there are different species. 0:44:19.680 --> 0:44:21.839 There were tons like we had we at one point 0:44:21.840 --> 0:44:25.440 had tiny like weien a dog sized antelope. Oh like 0:44:25.239 --> 0:44:27.200 a like a dick dick Yeah, yeah, like a dig 0:44:27.239 --> 0:44:27.640 dig But. 0:44:27.680 --> 0:44:29.520 That's a cool guy but fast. 0:44:30.000 --> 0:44:32.400 Oh So, one of the things about prong horns is 0:44:32.440 --> 0:44:34.640 they can jump. Like I've seen them jump. 0:44:34.760 --> 0:44:36.000 Yeah, it looks like a jumping guy. 0:44:36.120 --> 0:44:38.080 Well, they don't like to jump. A fence is a thing. 0:44:38.719 --> 0:44:41.160 Oh so then now you have like a problem. The 0:44:41.200 --> 0:44:43.160 buffalo are stuck, but so is the antelope. 0:44:43.280 --> 0:44:47.760 Yeah, because that speed was always their like defense mechanism 0:44:47.840 --> 0:44:49.520 right there, they're super that. I think cheetahs are the 0:44:49.520 --> 0:44:51.359 only land animal that's faster and. 0:44:51.320 --> 0:44:52.760 They don't live in the same environment. 0:44:52.960 --> 0:44:55.480 No, yeah, I knew that different continents. Yeah, yeah, there 0:44:55.520 --> 0:44:57.680 is not a North American cheetah. I mean, at this point, 0:44:57.719 --> 0:44:58.799 you could think that might have been. 0:44:58.680 --> 0:44:59.759 A can tell me there is. 0:45:01.320 --> 0:45:03.080 I think there might have been at one point, like 0:45:03.120 --> 0:45:06.600 a like a prehistoric shooter a time. They headlick ground 0:45:06.640 --> 0:45:09.879 slow some things. But yeah, when you're building the buffalo fencing, 0:45:09.920 --> 0:45:12.120 you have to allow the prong horns to go under 0:45:12.320 --> 0:45:14.640 if you're trying to build an ecological fence. 0:45:14.960 --> 0:45:16.799 Oh, I guess because they could like bend over in 0:45:16.800 --> 0:45:18.920 a way the buffalo can't exactly. 0:45:18.920 --> 0:45:20.040 There's just more bubble. 0:45:20.040 --> 0:45:20.680 It's too big. 0:45:21.000 --> 0:45:22.480 Yeah, there's a lot of chunk to a buffalo and 0:45:22.480 --> 0:45:25.000 the way it couldn't get under there. Right. So the 0:45:25.080 --> 0:45:28.480 other reason people don't like buffalo is because of brucellosis. 0:45:28.800 --> 0:45:30.440 You know brucellosis. 0:45:29.880 --> 0:45:31.680 Is is it a buffalo disease? 0:45:32.200 --> 0:45:35.480 Well, it's a disease that buffalo can have. Maybe you 0:45:35.480 --> 0:45:39.680 know from the Warren Zevon song don't. Okay, it's just funny. 0:45:39.680 --> 0:45:42.600 I'm talking to Molly about really American shit to neither 0:45:42.680 --> 0:45:43.960 there's a British person. 0:45:45.120 --> 0:45:47.000 I don't know any of what you're saying. 0:45:47.640 --> 0:45:51.879 Okay. Warren Zevon a very good famous musician, guy Sally Dead. 0:45:51.880 --> 0:45:53.720 But he has a song about buffalo disease. 0:45:54.000 --> 0:45:57.640 He has a song which in part it talks about brucellosis. 0:45:57.719 --> 0:46:00.560 It says, the cattle will have brucellosis. What a great 0:46:00.800 --> 0:46:01.759 journey we're going on. 0:46:02.080 --> 0:46:04.680 That's the service I provide, is the podcast idiot, because 0:46:04.719 --> 0:46:05.720 I know nothing. 0:46:06.560 --> 0:46:10.360 You have a very deep, very deep well of knowledge. 0:46:10.560 --> 0:46:12.359 It just doesn't extend to Warren's Evon. 0:46:12.600 --> 0:46:15.200 No listener left behind, Like there's no one sitting here 0:46:15.239 --> 0:46:18.160 listening wishing that something had been explained more because I'm 0:46:18.200 --> 0:46:20.479 making you explain what Antelope are. 0:46:21.040 --> 0:46:23.160 Yea and what a Warren Yvonn is. 0:46:24.160 --> 0:46:25.960 Yeah, we could go off on at Tangent Higgs. 0:46:26.000 --> 0:46:26.239 I don't know. 0:46:26.320 --> 0:46:29.080 This song is about the fact that Sweet Home Alabama 0:46:29.200 --> 0:46:32.480 is a deeply, deeply hateful song, but it does. That 0:46:32.560 --> 0:46:36.360 does get mentioned quite a lot. But yeah, the brucellosis. 0:46:36.400 --> 0:46:39.359 But I feel like once you're touching a buffalo you 0:46:39.520 --> 0:46:42.680 have worse problems than whatever. 0:46:42.719 --> 0:46:43.160 This is. 0:46:44.000 --> 0:46:46.120 Oh, well not great. 0:46:46.680 --> 0:46:48.640 Yeah, it depends, it depends who you are, right, Like, Uh, 0:46:49.239 --> 0:46:53.520 what brucellosis does is generally it infects heifer's so like 0:46:53.680 --> 0:46:57.239 young lady cows, it will cause them to abort their 0:46:57.280 --> 0:46:57.879 first calf. 0:46:58.320 --> 0:46:58.560 Sound. 0:46:59.280 --> 0:47:02.120 Yeah, it's sad. Also, because of the word it's controlled, 0:47:02.520 --> 0:47:07.279 your herd can get killed out. If you have brucellosis, it. 0:47:07.239 --> 0:47:10.200 Would be contagious to people's like cattle. 0:47:10.120 --> 0:47:12.000 Yes, and that would be very bad. 0:47:12.440 --> 0:47:14.080 So okay, when you see people don't like buffalo because 0:47:14.080 --> 0:47:15.960 they're worried about brusilosis, they're not worried that they will 0:47:16.000 --> 0:47:18.360 get brucellosis, they're worried that it will affect their cattle. 0:47:18.719 --> 0:47:20.920 Yes, I do believe people can get brucellosis. I'm not 0:47:20.960 --> 0:47:21.920 as familiar with that. 0:47:22.200 --> 0:47:23.520 Apparently I'm looking here. 0:47:23.600 --> 0:47:25.760 Apparently if you do get it, there's a twenty percent 0:47:25.880 --> 0:47:28.760 chance that your testicles are going to swell up real bad. 0:47:29.160 --> 0:47:31.359 So oh wow, I didn't know that. 0:47:32.239 --> 0:47:33.719 Ok I guess the why they don't want it. 0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:37.520 Yeah, but that would also be bad, right like big 0:47:37.560 --> 0:47:39.759 bull Brucellosis painful like that. 0:47:39.920 --> 0:47:43.000 Okay, so we're talking about the cattle industry. I'm on board. 0:47:43.000 --> 0:47:43.680 I'm on board. 0:47:43.880 --> 0:47:46.080 Yeah, it's the cattle that they're concerned about. They can 0:47:46.080 --> 0:47:48.600 take or leave the testicular swelling like they're tough. 0:47:48.680 --> 0:47:50.480 Why are they touching the buffalo in the first place, 0:47:50.520 --> 0:47:50.799 they're not? 0:47:50.880 --> 0:47:52.040 Okay, yeah, they're not. 0:47:52.120 --> 0:47:52.359 Okay. 0:47:52.440 --> 0:47:55.560 Yeah, it's it's a buffalo coming out and causing the 0:47:55.560 --> 0:47:59.680 cattle to get brucellosis. Right, here's the deal. Elk also 0:48:00.160 --> 0:48:00.920 get brucelos. 0:48:00.960 --> 0:48:03.160 I know about elk, We have those, okay. 0:48:02.920 --> 0:48:03.440 Yeah, you know. 0:48:03.560 --> 0:48:07.600 Okay, So an elk also travels widely, right, and elk 0:48:08.040 --> 0:48:10.840 it's not generally an animal that is kept behind high fences. 0:48:11.040 --> 0:48:14.479 Sometimes that there probably are high fence like game farms 0:48:14.520 --> 0:48:16.400 where people paid to go and hunt. 0:48:16.280 --> 0:48:17.760 Elk, as we have some in Virginia. 0:48:18.400 --> 0:48:21.680 Yeah, that's that's kind of gross in my opinion. I 0:48:21.680 --> 0:48:25.120 don't like that. But elk also carry brucellosis. Right, So 0:48:25.160 --> 0:48:27.960 if we're concerned about brucellosis, we also need to be 0:48:28.040 --> 0:48:31.000 concerned about elk. But it really doesn't get brought up 0:48:31.040 --> 0:48:32.920 in the elk discussion. It gets brought up in the 0:48:33.000 --> 0:48:36.600 in the buffalo discussion. So these are the reasons that 0:48:36.719 --> 0:48:40.160 some of the reasons that people don't like buffalo. 0:48:39.880 --> 0:48:42.240 Right, right, because they carry they carry a cow disease, 0:48:42.400 --> 0:48:44.360 and they don't like to stay inside the park. 0:48:44.800 --> 0:48:46.920 Got it, Yeah, yeah, they don't like to stay inside 0:48:46.960 --> 0:48:49.959 the park. We've talked for a long time, Molly, talking 0:48:50.000 --> 0:48:53.640 of things that might cause your testicles to swell. Here 0:48:53.719 --> 0:48:57.239 is some products and services or maybe it'll help. Yeah, 0:48:57.360 --> 0:49:00.560 maybe maybe you'll have bought your first calf. Who knows. 0:49:00.760 --> 0:49:16.600 It's roll the dice. All right, we are back. So 0:49:17.640 --> 0:49:21.960 let's talk about the area where this is happening. Right, 0:49:22.320 --> 0:49:27.480 This is happening in kind of northern central Montana around Livingstone. 0:49:28.120 --> 0:49:30.640 Lots of the land in this area has actually dropped 0:49:30.680 --> 0:49:34.840 below the population density that Turner considered to be evidence 0:49:34.840 --> 0:49:38.000 of the closure of the frontier when he was developing 0:49:38.040 --> 0:49:40.719 that thesis. Right, I'm not a big fan of the 0:49:40.719 --> 0:49:43.480 concept of the frontier. If that's another podcast it I'll 0:49:43.480 --> 0:49:45.160 make one day, But I don't like it. 0:49:45.560 --> 0:49:47.240 But there's like no people there. 0:49:47.440 --> 0:49:50.520 Yeah, it's yeah, there are. There are very few people there, 0:49:50.680 --> 0:49:54.200 in part because cattle farming is hard, in part because 0:49:54.200 --> 0:49:57.920 it's harder in a globalized economy, in part because of 0:49:57.960 --> 0:50:02.400 climate change. There's this theory of the Buffalo Commons written 0:50:02.400 --> 0:50:06.680 by two people called Popper, and they considered like this 0:50:06.760 --> 0:50:10.560 specific area to be a tragedy of the commons, where 0:50:10.600 --> 0:50:15.600 this beautiful plains ecosystem has been destroyed, and they put 0:50:15.640 --> 0:50:18.640 forward the idea that the presence of buffalo and the 0:50:18.719 --> 0:50:21.320 landscape could return it to a sort of short grass 0:50:21.320 --> 0:50:25.320 prairie commons. This isn't a direct link to the American 0:50:25.360 --> 0:50:29.840 Prairie Reserve, but this is kind of what they're trying 0:50:29.840 --> 0:50:33.960 to do. They're not putting buffalo on the landscape because 0:50:34.000 --> 0:50:36.120 they are a buffalo organization. 0:50:36.320 --> 0:50:38.560 Right, so they're trying to restore the grassland. 0:50:39.120 --> 0:50:41.680 Yes, that's the idea, because we don't have a prairie 0:50:41.760 --> 0:50:46.600 national park. Right when colonization was moving west, as a 0:50:46.640 --> 0:50:49.080 Department of Homeland Security likes to highlight with its use 0:50:49.120 --> 0:50:53.960 of that image, liberty was floating across the planes there. Sorry, 0:50:54.000 --> 0:50:55.600 let's just put the image in my head. Remember when 0:50:55.719 --> 0:50:58.759 the Trump administration is getting very aggressive towards Somali people. 0:50:58.800 --> 0:51:01.719 I guess it still is. Yeah, yeah, did you see 0:51:01.719 --> 0:51:04.320 the Ai version of that where it's a Somali woman 0:51:04.400 --> 0:51:07.840 like crossing the plaines? No, okay, it was pretty funny. 0:51:07.840 --> 0:51:10.080 It was one of there you're. 0:51:09.920 --> 0:51:12.520 Doing an opposed like like like the Mermaid on the 0:51:12.520 --> 0:51:13.240 front of a ship. 0:51:13.600 --> 0:51:16.520 Yeah exactly, Yeah, Like yeah, it was like this is 0:51:16.520 --> 0:51:19.640 a Somali promised land. Like they were like, I guess, 0:51:19.680 --> 0:51:22.920 parodying American rhetoric towards indigenous people and being. 0:51:22.719 --> 0:51:25.360 Like, like, Somali people can't do manifest destiny. 0:51:25.400 --> 0:51:26.080 I thought we loved that. 0:51:26.200 --> 0:51:29.719 Yeah, yeah, it was very funny. It was. It was 0:51:29.800 --> 0:51:32.120 kind of amusing to see that American rhetoric reflected back. 0:51:32.280 --> 0:51:36.840 Somali people have incredible posting abilities that HS was not 0:51:36.880 --> 0:51:40.200 ready for. So what the what the APR is trying 0:51:40.239 --> 0:51:43.680 to do is yet use the buffalo here as like 0:51:43.680 --> 0:51:47.600 a landscape engineer, right, like an animal that will help 0:51:48.040 --> 0:51:52.400 return this area to I guess natural state is a 0:51:52.400 --> 0:51:53.960 problematic term, you know. 0:51:53.920 --> 0:51:56.280 But like to it's pre industrial state. 0:51:56.719 --> 0:51:56.959 Yeah. 0:51:57.360 --> 0:51:57.760 Yeah. 0:51:58.040 --> 0:51:59.640 When we think about like why isn't there a plane 0:51:59.760 --> 0:52:03.360 national park, we have to consider the role the capitalism place, right. 0:52:03.280 --> 0:52:04.719 Because no one would go visit that. 0:52:05.000 --> 0:52:07.040 Yeah, well I think they would. The plans would beautiful 0:52:07.120 --> 0:52:09.120 in their in their way, right, But I guess, like. 0:52:09.480 --> 0:52:10.880 You know, just thinking like is the role of the 0:52:10.920 --> 0:52:15.719 national park to preserve this landscape, this ecosystem, or is 0:52:15.760 --> 0:52:18.440 it to create a place where people could go and 0:52:18.480 --> 0:52:19.000 buy things? 0:52:19.160 --> 0:52:20.120 Yeah, exactly right. 0:52:20.320 --> 0:52:21.520 Increasingly it's the latter. 0:52:22.280 --> 0:52:25.879 Yeah, And I think there is a bias towards preserving Yeah, 0:52:25.880 --> 0:52:28.960 there's there's like a scenic vista bias. This is an 0:52:28.960 --> 0:52:32.399 area where people could ranch cattle, and so like that 0:52:32.520 --> 0:52:35.200 happened instead, you know, and then we got to a 0:52:35.200 --> 0:52:37.279 point where like no one was going to give up 0:52:37.680 --> 0:52:40.160 their private land to make a massive park. 0:52:41.000 --> 0:52:43.319 Well they didn't want to in any of the other 0:52:43.400 --> 0:52:44.160 times either, So. 0:52:44.400 --> 0:52:45.520 The government needs to make you. 0:52:46.040 --> 0:52:47.759 Yeah, I think the government could force you back in 0:52:47.800 --> 0:52:48.080 the day. 0:52:48.320 --> 0:52:50.399 I mean, I just can't imagine a new national park 0:52:50.440 --> 0:52:53.000 ever coming into existence. We just don't have that kind 0:52:53.000 --> 0:52:54.320 of political will anymore. 0:52:54.719 --> 0:52:56.560 Yeah, I mean we might get like the Donald Trump's 0:52:56.560 --> 0:53:00.759 birthplace National Park or like something similar, you know, like. 0:53:01.040 --> 0:53:03.880 We would never get Yellowstone again, Yeah, we wouldn't. 0:53:03.920 --> 0:53:06.640 And like part of that is because they violently remove 0:53:06.719 --> 0:53:09.560 the indigenous people from those places in order to I don't. 0:53:09.360 --> 0:53:11.959 Want to romanticize that. Like I live near Shenandoa Valley 0:53:12.080 --> 0:53:15.640 National Park where people were forced out in a pretty 0:53:15.680 --> 0:53:18.240 brutal way, that's a big part of the history here. 0:53:18.320 --> 0:53:20.320 So I don't want to romanticize the creation of the 0:53:20.400 --> 0:53:23.480 national park. I just mean, like, the government is not 0:53:23.520 --> 0:53:25.319 going to spend a lot of money on something that's 0:53:25.400 --> 0:53:26.640 just for everyone to enjoy. 0:53:26.719 --> 0:53:30.120 Ever again, yeah, yeah, and they're not going to say, like, 0:53:30.719 --> 0:53:32.960 to an extent, we are removing this piece of land 0:53:33.000 --> 0:53:36.200 from the rapacious capitalism that has destroyed the rest of 0:53:36.200 --> 0:53:37.320 our natural spaces. 0:53:37.400 --> 0:53:39.359 So if somebody's going to eat this grass, it's going 0:53:39.360 --> 0:53:40.440 to be hamburgers. 0:53:41.840 --> 0:53:44.960 We wanted to turn into the cheapest meat possible. Also, 0:53:45.040 --> 0:53:48.160 like I should point out that like land back and 0:53:48.640 --> 0:53:51.480 national parks are very very very different things. I like 0:53:51.520 --> 0:53:53.200 to kind of illustrate this with the idea that during 0:53:53.239 --> 0:53:55.799 the Nez Perce War, as a Nez person like fighting 0:53:55.840 --> 0:53:59.600 their way towards the Canadian border, they are having gunfights 0:53:59.680 --> 0:54:03.960 in Yellowstone National Park as tourists are coming to Yellowstone 0:54:04.160 --> 0:54:07.000 to like check out the mountains and nursey the geysers 0:54:07.040 --> 0:54:07.520 and stuff. 0:54:07.640 --> 0:54:10.000 You know, that's that's America. 0:54:10.680 --> 0:54:14.520 Yeah, it's just perfectly America, right, Like, we'll look at it. Look, 0:54:14.560 --> 0:54:17.040 we're preserving this for you as we violently remove the 0:54:17.040 --> 0:54:18.440 indigenous people and. 0:54:18.600 --> 0:54:21.080 Just like coming to spend your tourism dollars, never mind 0:54:21.080 --> 0:54:22.319 that there's a war going on there. 0:54:22.480 --> 0:54:26.240 Yeah, just being like just kind of letting that go past. 0:54:26.280 --> 0:54:28.799 Whatever the time period equivalent of a visor and a 0:54:28.840 --> 0:54:30.240 fanny pack was that was cooking. 0:54:30.960 --> 0:54:33.719 Yeah, yeah for sure, probably probably a cigar. And I 0:54:33.960 --> 0:54:38.600 know this trousers to stop past your knee. So you'll 0:54:38.640 --> 0:54:41.680 hear people saying a lot of shit about the API 0:54:41.719 --> 0:54:44.319 of the America Prayer Reserve, right, And so I did 0:54:44.320 --> 0:54:46.440 what I should do as a responsible journalist, and I 0:54:46.560 --> 0:54:47.960 pulled their nine nineties. 0:54:48.160 --> 0:54:52.680 That's my favorite thing to do. Yeah, where's the money going? Yeah, 0:54:52.719 --> 0:54:54.120 well where's the money coming from? 0:54:54.400 --> 0:54:56.879 Yeah? Where the money coming from. You'll hear a lot 0:54:56.920 --> 0:54:59.880 of like anti API stuff, someone from the cattle in this. 0:55:00.400 --> 0:55:02.000 If you go through that part of Montana, you'll see 0:55:02.040 --> 0:55:04.680 signs that say like save the cowboys, stop the American 0:55:04.719 --> 0:55:05.440 Prairie Reserve. 0:55:05.719 --> 0:55:07.160 I think we have a different understanding of what a 0:55:07.200 --> 0:55:09.120 cowboy is me and the sign maker. 0:55:09.600 --> 0:55:13.759 Yeah, right, Well, it is inherently time, I guess, to cattle, right, 0:55:14.080 --> 0:55:18.600 and the idea being that these bison are displacing cattle. 0:55:19.400 --> 0:55:21.759 It's not a direct contract with cattle. In fact, the 0:55:21.800 --> 0:55:25.600 APR has ten times more cattle on its land than 0:55:25.640 --> 0:55:29.040 it does buys it. Like most ranches, the APR has 0:55:29.080 --> 0:55:32.120 deeded or private land that they graze on leasing right 0:55:32.160 --> 0:55:35.239 to adjacent public land. What the APR is spending its 0:55:35.360 --> 0:55:38.320 money on, among other things, among like some staffing costs, 0:55:38.320 --> 0:55:42.479 of its costs, paying consultants, paying fundraisers, pay consultants. Oh yeah, 0:55:42.600 --> 0:55:47.160 they're dropping some coin on consultants. Is they buy up ranches. 0:55:48.800 --> 0:55:50.839 The way land ownership works in this area is kind 0:55:50.880 --> 0:55:53.480 of like a checkerboard, and you've got public land and 0:55:53.520 --> 0:55:54.200 private land. 0:55:54.280 --> 0:55:57.560 So they're trying to make pathways for the bison by 0:55:57.600 --> 0:55:59.080 buying contiguous plots. 0:55:59.480 --> 0:56:02.920 Yeah, they're not all contiguous, but their goal is to 0:56:03.000 --> 0:56:05.960 have a large contiguous area in which. 0:56:05.840 --> 0:56:07.120 Right, and you just have to buy them when they 0:56:07.120 --> 0:56:08.360 come up exactly. 0:56:08.440 --> 0:56:08.879 Yeah. Yeah. 0:56:09.000 --> 0:56:11.400 I think the argument is that they're they're pushing up 0:56:11.520 --> 0:56:15.280 land prices, right, But in reality, this area is depopulating rapidly. 0:56:16.280 --> 0:56:18.759 It might push up land prices a little bit, but 0:56:18.840 --> 0:56:21.439 it's not like there's massive bidding wars going on here 0:56:21.480 --> 0:56:22.960 for each of these ranches. 0:56:22.840 --> 0:56:25.479 Right, because are there new people seeking new cow ranching 0:56:25.520 --> 0:56:27.440 opportunities who are trying to move in who are being 0:56:27.600 --> 0:56:28.759 prevented from doing that. 0:56:29.200 --> 0:56:32.640 Will be people trying to like either I guess, if 0:56:33.040 --> 0:56:36.600 expand their ranch, or if a family is subdividing its ranch, 0:56:36.800 --> 0:56:39.399 or if you didn't inherit your family ranch, I guess, 0:56:39.400 --> 0:56:41.919 and want to buy some land. Generally, how it works 0:56:41.960 --> 0:56:44.560 here is you buy a certain part of land. It'll 0:56:44.560 --> 0:56:48.319 be like sixty forty seventy thirty something like that. So 0:56:48.360 --> 0:56:50.840 you'll buy land, and that would give you the privilege 0:56:51.320 --> 0:56:54.520 to have like first DIBs on grazing on the public 0:56:54.600 --> 0:56:57.360 land that is adjacent to your land. So most of 0:56:57.360 --> 0:57:00.760 these ranches are checkerboarded, right, It's not like a bigtiguous plot. 0:57:01.160 --> 0:57:03.000 So not being able to graize a bison on the 0:57:03.000 --> 0:57:05.680 public land kind of fucks that up in these plots 0:57:05.680 --> 0:57:08.400 for the American prairie people, right, And like I should 0:57:08.440 --> 0:57:11.320 say that, like I have some sympathy for people ranching 0:57:11.360 --> 0:57:15.040 in this area, like my family of farmers, Like it's 0:57:15.080 --> 0:57:17.080 going to be really fucking hard right now when fuel 0:57:17.120 --> 0:57:20.800 prices are insanely high to be trying to farm on 0:57:20.840 --> 0:57:23.040 these especially the way that like American people farm have 0:57:23.240 --> 0:57:26.560 massive expanses, right, you have to be in a vehicle 0:57:26.680 --> 0:57:29.640 a lot. When I was reading about the brucellosis stuff, 0:57:29.800 --> 0:57:31.680 and it made me think of foot and mouth disease, 0:57:31.720 --> 0:57:33.480 which happened in the UK when I was a child. 0:57:33.920 --> 0:57:36.200 I remember how traumatic that was for people having their 0:57:36.240 --> 0:57:41.360 whole herds killed. Several people who were like within our 0:57:41.400 --> 0:57:45.439 extended family social circle killed themselves and they're horrible when 0:57:45.440 --> 0:57:47.600 they lost all their cattle. Yeah, like it's really fucked up, 0:57:47.640 --> 0:57:50.160 Like at least in that part of the world, like 0:57:50.280 --> 0:57:52.400 you might have. It might have been your great grandfather 0:57:52.440 --> 0:57:54.960 who started bringing these cattle, right, Like, it's an intergenerational 0:57:55.000 --> 0:57:57.400 project that nick joins lining through your family. So I 0:57:57.400 --> 0:58:00.240 do understand these people like deeply tied to this land. 0:58:00.440 --> 0:58:04.240 Also not in the same way as Indigenous people. I 0:58:04.280 --> 0:58:06.320 can see that people like you know, don't want it 0:58:06.360 --> 0:58:09.320 to change. I understand that, and like consolidation and agriculture 0:58:09.360 --> 0:58:12.480 climate change, the way our foody consistem works, that is 0:58:12.480 --> 0:58:14.320 an issue we should address if we want to take 0:58:14.360 --> 0:58:16.560 care of the land. What the government is doing, it's 0:58:16.600 --> 0:58:19.200 not how we address that. Sometimes you'll see people saying 0:58:19.200 --> 0:58:23.360 that the APR is entirely a tax avoidance system for 0:58:23.480 --> 0:58:27.600 the Mars family, like the chocolate people. Yeah, yeah, big chocolate. 0:58:27.600 --> 0:58:29.560 You familiar the Mars family a rich as fuck. 0:58:29.800 --> 0:58:31.880 Yeah, I didn't know they were involved in the in 0:58:31.920 --> 0:58:32.920 the bison industry. 0:58:33.320 --> 0:58:36.760 Well, they have donated. I couldn't find an exact figure, right, 0:58:36.880 --> 0:58:40.120 Like with the change of nonprofit like the reporting laws, 0:58:40.560 --> 0:58:42.160 it's a lot harder now than it used to be. 0:58:42.720 --> 0:58:45.080 So they don't own or operate it. They've just made 0:58:45.120 --> 0:58:46.040 large donations. 0:58:46.240 --> 0:58:49.600 They've made Lars donations. It's a unit called Mars Vista 0:58:49.920 --> 0:58:54.480 within the APR, which has some private housing on it. 0:58:54.520 --> 0:58:58.720 But like I think people are fundamentally misunderstanding how they're 0:58:58.840 --> 0:59:01.560 super wealthy, Like these people are worth more than one 0:59:01.640 --> 0:59:05.000 hundred billion dollars. I would highly encourage anyone who thinks 0:59:05.080 --> 0:59:07.880 that an NGO which is going through like in the 0:59:07.960 --> 0:59:11.720 tens of millions a year, maybe by twenty fifteen. So 0:59:11.800 --> 0:59:14.440 in the first fourteen years of this project's existence, say 0:59:14.480 --> 0:59:17.760 donated twenty million. That's not touching the edges. 0:59:18.000 --> 0:59:20.880 I'm sure they have a complicated tax shelter system set 0:59:20.960 --> 0:59:24.280 up for themselves that doesn't involve bison. It involves bank 0:59:24.280 --> 0:59:26.040 accounts and countries. You haven't heard of. 0:59:26.400 --> 0:59:29.680 Yes, exactly, Like the Panama Paper's had zero bison in 0:59:29.720 --> 0:59:33.200 it for a reason, right, Like you're just being very 0:59:33.200 --> 0:59:35.720 it's very sweet if you think that. Like the way 0:59:35.760 --> 0:59:38.640 that they are avoiding paying federal taxes is buying land 0:59:38.640 --> 0:59:39.440 to put buffalo on. 0:59:39.680 --> 0:59:42.240 Like all these families have their own whole foundations that 0:59:42.280 --> 0:59:45.240 are just about moving money around in opaque ways. Yeah, 0:59:45.240 --> 0:59:46.959 if you're trying to avoid paying taxes, you don't donate 0:59:47.000 --> 0:59:49.720 to a real charity that's actually doing something complicated with 0:59:49.800 --> 0:59:53.400 physical animals and land. You have a foundation that does 0:59:53.480 --> 0:59:54.960 grants for something obscure. 0:59:55.760 --> 0:59:58.720 Yeah, Like it's just not it's just just not it. 0:59:58.760 --> 1:00:01.080 Like it's just it's not it. That's not how taxes work. 1:00:01.120 --> 1:00:04.720 That's not how ridge people work. So we've talked about 1:00:04.960 --> 1:00:07.800 Brucelosi is going to move past brucellosis, and I had 1:00:07.800 --> 1:00:11.200 a diversion on chronic wasting disease and elk feeding, but 1:00:11.240 --> 1:00:14.680 maybe we'll make that a whole other podcast. So we 1:00:14.720 --> 1:00:17.920 also talked about this this checkerboarding of public land. Right, 1:00:18.440 --> 1:00:21.720 lots of these ranching operations that they're buying rely heavily 1:00:21.760 --> 1:00:25.640 on public land grazing. So in twenty twenty two. They 1:00:25.720 --> 1:00:29.440 applied in twenty nineteen. The BLM allowed them to graze 1:00:29.520 --> 1:00:33.200 bison on seven plots in Phillips County. Right, So that's 1:00:33.200 --> 1:00:37.120 saying that you can put your bison on this public 1:00:37.160 --> 1:00:39.680 land which is adjacent to the private land which you own. 1:00:39.920 --> 1:00:42.280 And that's standard practice. Everybody's doing that. 1:00:42.520 --> 1:00:45.560 It depends on the particular plot, right, So they had 1:00:45.600 --> 1:00:47.320 to apply to the Bureau of Land Management. 1:00:47.680 --> 1:00:49.920 It's like pretty common for people to be grazing to 1:00:49.960 --> 1:00:51.640 get these permits to graze on the public land. 1:00:52.040 --> 1:00:54.360 There have been bison on public land for forty years. 1:00:54.560 --> 1:00:57.520 There remain bison on public land across the West, to 1:00:57.680 --> 1:01:01.280 include some tribes grazed bison on public land as well 1:01:01.280 --> 1:01:02.240 as on tribal land. 1:01:02.440 --> 1:01:04.200 But like the cattle farmers are doing this as well. 1:01:04.200 --> 1:01:07.080 Oh yeah, the cattle farmers are alder Yeah yeah, but that's. 1:01:06.920 --> 1:01:08.720 Like some I'm saying, like, if you buy this plot 1:01:08.760 --> 1:01:11.560 of land, it's like kind of common that you would 1:01:11.600 --> 1:01:13.640 also be grazing on the public land adjacent to it. 1:01:13.880 --> 1:01:16.800 Yeah, it's entirely understood, like or not even adjacent to, 1:01:16.920 --> 1:01:20.640 but sometimes like interspersed with Yeah, Like so if you 1:01:20.680 --> 1:01:23.040 look at like a sometimes you'll see like a de 1:01:23.160 --> 1:01:25.680 died and a least acreage when you're looking at like 1:01:25.720 --> 1:01:27.440 a land, like if you were if you were interested 1:01:27.440 --> 1:01:28.680 in buying a ranch Molley. 1:01:28.680 --> 1:01:30.560 So like when they so, when they bought this land, 1:01:30.680 --> 1:01:32.800 it would be reasonable for them to assume that they 1:01:32.800 --> 1:01:35.640 would be able to use the parcels adjacent and interspersed 1:01:35.640 --> 1:01:35.920 within it. 1:01:36.000 --> 1:01:38.600 Yes, yeah, okay, yes, and they would have known that 1:01:38.600 --> 1:01:42.000 that would have required in some cases asking the BLM, right, 1:01:42.000 --> 1:01:43.840 which is what they did. And in twenty twenty two, 1:01:44.000 --> 1:01:46.000 the BLM said, go ahead, put your by some in 1:01:46.000 --> 1:01:49.640 this on these particular seven plots, right, So they were 1:01:49.680 --> 1:01:54.160 amended to include bison. They've got environmental impact study done, 1:01:54.640 --> 1:01:56.000 you know, they did all the things. 1:01:56.600 --> 1:01:59.480 Is doing an environmental impact study of the presence of 1:01:59.520 --> 1:02:00.960 a native of animal. 1:02:01.160 --> 1:02:02.640 Yeah, on its native range. 1:02:02.960 --> 1:02:04.920 What would happen if a buffalo lived here? 1:02:05.480 --> 1:02:05.760 Yeah? 1:02:06.320 --> 1:02:08.160 We asked ten government scientists. 1:02:08.320 --> 1:02:11.440 Yeah, we spent thousands of dollars finding out what happens 1:02:11.440 --> 1:02:14.080 if buffalo lives in buffalo home. Turned out didn't do 1:02:14.200 --> 1:02:18.360 massive ecological damage, So BLM said, let the buffalo back. 1:02:18.720 --> 1:02:22.720 What is interesting about this rule change is the justification 1:02:22.840 --> 1:02:25.040 the BLM is using and that is the thing that 1:02:25.080 --> 1:02:28.920 people should be worried about. In my opinion, that should 1:02:28.920 --> 1:02:30.960 be the headline. The headline should be, So the BLM 1:02:31.000 --> 1:02:32.880 is trying to regulate these leases that have their roots 1:02:32.880 --> 1:02:35.400 in the nineteen thirty four Taylor Grazing Act. 1:02:35.920 --> 1:02:36.800 I'm not unknowingly. 1:02:37.320 --> 1:02:39.080 Yeah, yeah, the Tailor Grazing Act a big deal when 1:02:39.080 --> 1:02:41.840 it comes to public land in the West in farming. Right, 1:02:42.360 --> 1:02:45.440 it is trying to regulate these leases to quote unquote 1:02:45.480 --> 1:02:50.000 productive purposes. It doesn't say productive purposes anywhere I can 1:02:50.080 --> 1:02:52.960 find in the Tailor grazing net. It does use the 1:02:53.040 --> 1:02:55.120 term I guess domestic livestock. 1:02:55.320 --> 1:02:56.720 I think could be a livestock. 1:02:57.040 --> 1:02:58.440 Well, they are a livestock. 1:02:58.520 --> 1:02:59.320 I've eaten them. 1:02:59.600 --> 1:03:03.520 Yeah, they These bison are vaccinated, they are fenced, they 1:03:03.520 --> 1:03:06.560 are tagged, they'll be handled. I'm guessing the way the 1:03:06.600 --> 1:03:09.200 API does it is like a kind of non invasive handling, 1:03:09.280 --> 1:03:13.120 like trying to keep them not acclimated to human contact 1:03:13.200 --> 1:03:13.760 per se. 1:03:13.800 --> 1:03:16.040 But like it's hard to ask a livestock a bison 1:03:16.080 --> 1:03:16.880 to human content. 1:03:17.200 --> 1:03:19.600 Yeah, you can get like beefalow, right, which is like 1:03:19.680 --> 1:03:21.920 a like a hybridized bison. 1:03:22.400 --> 1:03:25.280 They sell bison that my whole foods. That's livestock. 1:03:25.560 --> 1:03:25.800 Yeah. 1:03:26.040 --> 1:03:28.600 The APR is not raising them to kill them to 1:03:28.760 --> 1:03:30.800 sell them for meat. 1:03:30.280 --> 1:03:33.000 But they could if they wanted to, Like, because I 1:03:33.280 --> 1:03:34.520 don't think the government is ever going to go to 1:03:34.520 --> 1:03:36.680 a cattle rancher and say you have to kill X 1:03:36.760 --> 1:03:38.600 number of these or they're no longer livestock. 1:03:38.800 --> 1:03:39.000 Yeah. 1:03:39.000 --> 1:03:41.000 Well that is the question, right, Like, what if we 1:03:41.120 --> 1:03:44.280 choose if you gave me a million dollars today, I 1:03:44.320 --> 1:03:47.040 would immediately cease making podcasts. I would buy a large 1:03:47.040 --> 1:03:49.960 plot land, and I would have an ungodly number of 1:03:50.160 --> 1:03:54.240 rare and endangered domestic livestock species. Right, I'd have jacob sheep. 1:03:54.560 --> 1:03:57.000 I'd have polyseric sheep with four horns, you know, like 1:03:57.080 --> 1:03:58.880 satan looking sheep. I'd be all about. 1:03:58.640 --> 1:04:01.280 It, and they would remain leag livestock even if you 1:04:01.320 --> 1:04:02.960 had no intention of eating them. 1:04:03.120 --> 1:04:07.520 Well, that is the question, right. The productive purposes definition 1:04:08.000 --> 1:04:12.920 could be extremely broad. What if you're doing practice like 1:04:12.960 --> 1:04:14.600 restorative ranching. 1:04:14.400 --> 1:04:17.600 Right, what if the Bureau of Land Management was concerned 1:04:17.640 --> 1:04:19.440 with the land being properly managed. 1:04:19.800 --> 1:04:24.240 Well, at a point, I guess the BLM was right 1:04:24.280 --> 1:04:27.160 because there was a rule. This is actually kind of funny. 1:04:27.320 --> 1:04:29.880 It was called the Conservation and Landscape Health Rule, and 1:04:29.920 --> 1:04:34.160 the BLM rescinded that last week. So previously that was 1:04:34.240 --> 1:04:38.240 one of the considerations for managing land, for managing public land, 1:04:38.320 --> 1:04:40.160 And I guess like we should just briefly say that 1:04:40.200 --> 1:04:42.520 there is no such thing as government land, right, It's 1:04:42.680 --> 1:04:46.320 all native land. And the land which is currently managed 1:04:46.320 --> 1:04:48.760 by the government is paid for by me and Molly 1:04:49.000 --> 1:04:51.840 and everyone else. Doug Berghen doesn't own it. It is 1:04:51.880 --> 1:04:54.760 there for future generations, right, Like. 1:04:54.840 --> 1:04:57.160 It's like, what is what are they going to do 1:04:57.200 --> 1:04:57.400 with it? 1:04:57.440 --> 1:05:01.439 If they kicked the buffalo off of it. 1:05:00.120 --> 1:05:02.520 Will be my guest card the Cattalony leases. 1:05:02.240 --> 1:05:04.160 So they're just going to lease it to someone else. 1:05:05.240 --> 1:05:09.680 Yeah, But like, I guess some portions of public land 1:05:09.720 --> 1:05:12.040 in that part of Montana are entirely land locked by 1:05:12.080 --> 1:05:14.600 private land. Like one of the things that APR did 1:05:14.640 --> 1:05:17.320 that made people like it there is that the APR 1:05:18.160 --> 1:05:20.400 bought a ranch and then opened up a gated road 1:05:20.920 --> 1:05:23.400 which allowed people to access fifty thousand acres of public 1:05:23.480 --> 1:05:27.040 land that had previously been completely islanded. Right's so, like, right, 1:05:27.800 --> 1:05:29.840 what their plan is to do? They have to sell 1:05:29.880 --> 1:05:31.600 these ranches now, so. 1:05:31.520 --> 1:05:34.800 The government just is saying you can't use this public 1:05:34.840 --> 1:05:37.800 the land anymore in such a way that might negate 1:05:37.840 --> 1:05:41.080 your ability to use your privately owned land because we 1:05:41.120 --> 1:05:42.280 don't think bison our livestock. 1:05:42.520 --> 1:05:46.840 Yeah, because bison awoke. More broadly, like this conservation of 1:05:46.920 --> 1:05:51.000 landscape health rull with sinshon is worrying, very amusingly, the 1:05:51.040 --> 1:05:54.360 BLM has forgotten to take down the website that explains 1:05:54.400 --> 1:05:58.480 the value of the rule, so at the time of recording, 1:05:58.640 --> 1:06:02.320 the BLM's website still say quote, the rule recognizes conservation 1:06:02.440 --> 1:06:05.160 as an essential component of public lands management on equal 1:06:05.200 --> 1:06:08.800 footing with other multiple uses of these habitats. Americans rely 1:06:08.880 --> 1:06:11.280 on public lands to live a food, energy, cleaner and 1:06:11.320 --> 1:06:14.880 water wildlife habitat and places to recreate. The BLM knows 1:06:14.880 --> 1:06:17.320 the importance of balancing our use of natural resources with 1:06:17.400 --> 1:06:20.680 protecting public lands and waters for future generations. The rule 1:06:20.680 --> 1:06:23.080 will safeguard these lands and waters to protect our way 1:06:23.120 --> 1:06:26.680 of life. Still a bit cringe, But they've now rescinded 1:06:26.680 --> 1:06:28.240 that rule, So I guess our way of life is 1:06:28.240 --> 1:06:29.320 now under threat. 1:06:39.920 --> 1:06:40.400 Because I just. 1:06:40.400 --> 1:06:42.960 Don't understand how this is justifiable at all. But I 1:06:42.960 --> 1:06:44.800 guess that's not really the point for. 1:06:44.760 --> 1:06:47.280 A lot of people, right, Like, it sort of flies 1:06:47.400 --> 1:06:50.320 under the radar because it's not, you know, like a 1:06:50.360 --> 1:06:53.320 big Washington thing. I can see how like in our 1:06:53.360 --> 1:06:55.680 major population centers, it can be easily to be like 1:06:56.080 --> 1:06:58.320 the Defudd cares where the cows and buffalo go. 1:06:58.880 --> 1:07:01.600 But I think, even aside from from an ecological argument, 1:07:01.640 --> 1:07:03.600 which I think is very important, right that the restoration 1:07:03.680 --> 1:07:07.360 of these grasslands, this is the government saying no, we're 1:07:07.360 --> 1:07:09.960 going to take this public resource away from someone who 1:07:10.000 --> 1:07:12.640 is rightfully using it and paying to use it, and 1:07:12.640 --> 1:07:15.760 we're going to sell that right instead to a capitalist 1:07:15.760 --> 1:07:18.120 concern over a bullshit fake reason. 1:07:18.680 --> 1:07:21.200 Yeah, not that the APR is not. I suppose it's 1:07:21.240 --> 1:07:23.080 not really a capitalist concern. It's like a nonprofit. 1:07:23.120 --> 1:07:25.120 But there has to be some sort of big cattle 1:07:25.200 --> 1:07:26.440 lobbying at play here. 1:07:27.040 --> 1:07:30.040 Yeah, I think there are elements of the cattle industry 1:07:30.080 --> 1:07:33.400 which have been opposed to bison, especially due to that 1:07:33.720 --> 1:07:36.680 departure of bison from the park is really something that 1:07:36.720 --> 1:07:40.080 for years has been like a point of tension in Yellowstone. 1:07:40.280 --> 1:07:43.160 It's worth who is for this and who is against it? 1:07:43.200 --> 1:07:46.360 I guess it is cattle ranches who are opposed to 1:07:47.040 --> 1:07:48.680 the grazing of bison out here. 1:07:48.640 --> 1:07:53.720 And who specifically is getting those seven specific plots. 1:07:54.160 --> 1:07:56.600 Yeah, well, I think the reason they recinded those is 1:07:56.600 --> 1:07:59.720 because they were the seven most recently approved. Okay, because 1:07:59.720 --> 1:08:02.720 there are other plots. I think there are tribes in California, 1:08:02.800 --> 1:08:06.000 for instance, who have applied for buffalo grazing on public land. 1:08:06.320 --> 1:08:08.520 And I should point out that like a tribal cultural herd, 1:08:08.520 --> 1:08:10.960 a food sovereignty herd is a very different thing to 1:08:11.000 --> 1:08:13.960 the APR. I hope that APR did know that. I 1:08:14.000 --> 1:08:15.280 know that tribal and trits. 1:08:15.000 --> 1:08:17.360 Would, but I guess as far as the government is concerned, 1:08:17.920 --> 1:08:19.640 it's the same that danswers just know. 1:08:20.320 --> 1:08:21.720 I don't know yet. We don't know yet, right, We 1:08:21.720 --> 1:08:23.720 don't know if those tribal leases have been approved. What 1:08:23.800 --> 1:08:26.160 we do know is that, like this production standard is 1:08:26.200 --> 1:08:28.760 a thory of threat to them. The Coalition of Large 1:08:28.800 --> 1:08:31.840 Tribes actually wrote a letter opposing this decision. A quote 1:08:31.840 --> 1:08:34.920 from it here. It is offensive and unacceptable that the 1:08:34.920 --> 1:08:37.519 federal government would still seek to keep buffalo off of 1:08:37.560 --> 1:08:41.479 these lands. Chairmen of the shann River Sioux Tribe, Ryman 1:08:41.560 --> 1:08:45.879 Lebau wrote, adding that BLM lands are all former buffalo lands. 1:08:46.160 --> 1:08:48.800 He calls the decision a painful reprise the genocide the 1:08:48.800 --> 1:08:51.639 federal government attempted could commit against us and our relative 1:08:51.640 --> 1:08:54.439 to buffalo. They also call it affirmative action for cattle, 1:08:54.760 --> 1:08:57.240 which is kind of funny. Wow. True, yeah, but yeah 1:08:57.320 --> 1:09:01.360 it's true, And it's like saying during cowdyr, Yeah, yeah, 1:09:01.400 --> 1:09:03.800 this is one our one angula is fine and the 1:09:03.840 --> 1:09:06.120 other one is in. I want people to be concerned 1:09:06.120 --> 1:09:09.560 about this because it could be deeply damaging to the 1:09:09.600 --> 1:09:14.599 attempts of tribes to recover their buffalo population. It could 1:09:14.600 --> 1:09:19.080 be deeply damaging to our public lands. I guess I 1:09:19.080 --> 1:09:21.360 want to talk briefly about the buffalo genocide because they 1:09:21.360 --> 1:09:23.600 think it's something that people have like a grasp of, 1:09:23.840 --> 1:09:27.320 but not like a maybe in depth understanding. What I 1:09:27.400 --> 1:09:29.439 want to briefly say is that the government played a 1:09:29.479 --> 1:09:32.320 massive role in wiping out of most of a buffalo. 1:09:32.520 --> 1:09:32.640 Right. 1:09:32.680 --> 1:09:35.000 We ended up with fewer than a thousand head at 1:09:35.040 --> 1:09:38.880 Buffalo like there were times when a tree falling down, 1:09:39.120 --> 1:09:44.479 a lightning strike, a bad flood could have significantly altered 1:09:44.520 --> 1:09:47.320 the future of the species. Because there were so few. 1:09:47.840 --> 1:09:50.960 Capitalism also played a role, though. The idea that the 1:09:51.000 --> 1:09:53.439 buffalo hunters were like just following orders from the government 1:09:53.560 --> 1:09:56.880 relies in part on books written by former buffalo hunters 1:09:57.400 --> 1:10:02.320 trying to absolve themselves. I would suggest that we also 1:10:02.360 --> 1:10:04.760 look at the incentive provided to kill the animals and 1:10:04.800 --> 1:10:07.639 to not make use of their remains after people did that, right, 1:10:08.080 --> 1:10:10.919 because like as much as the government did, the capitalism 1:10:10.960 --> 1:10:13.840 that the government was ringing with it killed the majority 1:10:13.840 --> 1:10:16.160 of the wild buffalo in this country. And that is 1:10:16.200 --> 1:10:20.519 what's happening again, right we look at public lands management today. 1:10:21.120 --> 1:10:24.880 The glass yearro was of chuck O Kanyon. Chakokanyon was 1:10:25.000 --> 1:10:28.280 the site of the biggest building in what is now 1:10:28.280 --> 1:10:32.120 the United States until the eighteen eighties. Oh chuck O 1:10:32.200 --> 1:10:36.000 and civilization built these massive great houses there. Really really beautiful, 1:10:36.040 --> 1:10:38.720 amazing place, one of the less visited units in the 1:10:38.800 --> 1:10:42.240 National Park System. Gorgeous, amazing. I saw some out there too. 1:10:42.320 --> 1:10:43.400 This is all news to me. 1:10:43.680 --> 1:10:44.960 You got to go to Chaka Kanyon. 1:10:45.760 --> 1:10:47.639 We have to find something we can record that gets 1:10:47.640 --> 1:10:48.680 me down to the Southwest. 1:10:48.840 --> 1:10:49.040 Yeah. 1:10:49.720 --> 1:10:51.280 I bet there are some biggots, you know there are 1:10:51.320 --> 1:10:54.799 because they use they appropriate the Zooni sacred Sun symbol 1:10:54.840 --> 1:10:58.200 in some of their Nazi shit because have we not 1:10:58.400 --> 1:11:01.960 fucking done enough? Well, apparently not right, because there is 1:11:02.760 --> 1:11:05.799 there is a campaign to have drilling to like dealist 1:11:05.960 --> 1:11:09.920 areas of Chaco Canyon. I also spent time last year 1:11:09.960 --> 1:11:14.000 in Which in Homeland, with which in people there. What's 1:11:14.040 --> 1:11:16.799 happening is a Trump administration is trying to grant drilling 1:11:16.840 --> 1:11:21.960 permits in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, the which and people, 1:11:22.000 --> 1:11:24.280 I should say, preferred to use the term Arctic refuge, 1:11:24.320 --> 1:11:25.719 So I'm going to try and use that going forward. 1:11:26.320 --> 1:11:31.080 They don't like anoir just that. So what that will do, 1:11:31.520 --> 1:11:35.680 right is on the on the plane there drilling is 1:11:35.680 --> 1:11:38.639 the place where the caribou migrate. The porcupine caribou herd 1:11:38.680 --> 1:11:41.160 makes the longest land mammal migration in the world. 1:11:41.240 --> 1:11:43.960 So we're just speed running the devastation of every cool, 1:11:43.960 --> 1:11:45.000 big animal we have. 1:11:45.560 --> 1:11:48.639 Yeah, Like, we're going to do drilling in the place 1:11:48.680 --> 1:11:50.920 where the caribou carve, right, and if they don't go 1:11:51.000 --> 1:11:53.400 there to carve, then it's over. Yeah, And there are 1:11:53.479 --> 1:11:57.280 so few of these animals left, right, they can cross 1:11:57.320 --> 1:12:00.479 political boundaries, that can travel their great dis stance is 1:12:00.560 --> 1:12:04.839 unimpeded by capitalism. Largely that's because the which in territory 1:12:04.880 --> 1:12:07.439 is not a reservation. It's like they own it. So 1:12:07.720 --> 1:12:10.880 they can go off public land onto Gwichinland and without 1:12:10.880 --> 1:12:13.240 the caribou, like the Gwitchin culture cannot be the same 1:12:13.280 --> 1:12:16.160 as it is, right the caribou is sacred to them 1:12:16.200 --> 1:12:18.200 like that culture in the distance of the Cariboo, I guess, 1:12:18.200 --> 1:12:21.759 are tied together, and like the same could be said 1:12:21.880 --> 1:12:24.320 for bison, right Like that it's part of the reason 1:12:24.360 --> 1:12:26.639 that we don't have bison on the planes anymore because 1:12:26.680 --> 1:12:29.320 indigenous people on the bison went hand in hand in 1:12:29.360 --> 1:12:31.720 the genocide of the indigenous peoples. There was also a 1:12:31.720 --> 1:12:33.400 genocide of the buffalo, I guess, and those two things 1:12:33.439 --> 1:12:36.559 weren't separate or distinct. And I think, like there's this 1:12:36.640 --> 1:12:40.120 idea in the American liberal psyche that like a bison 1:12:40.160 --> 1:12:43.160 being on the land constitutes a return and like that's 1:12:43.160 --> 1:12:46.040 not it, right, Like privately owned bison being on the 1:12:46.160 --> 1:12:47.559 APR is not land back. 1:12:47.880 --> 1:12:50.960 I mean, it would restore the grassland to some degree, 1:12:51.000 --> 1:12:53.280 but that's not that doesn't have the same cultural impact 1:12:53.360 --> 1:12:57.160 as returning the land to its natural stewards. 1:12:56.840 --> 1:12:59.880 Yeah, exactly, and allowing indigenous people to like manage the 1:13:00.080 --> 1:13:02.320 land for future generations in the way that they did 1:13:02.360 --> 1:13:07.080 for millennia before this massive extinction event, the European colonization. 1:13:07.360 --> 1:13:09.640 I hope nobody thinks they privately owned buffalo flock is 1:13:09.680 --> 1:13:10.599 the same as land back. 1:13:11.040 --> 1:13:14.280 Yeah, I hope not. I really hope not. Like did 1:13:14.320 --> 1:13:17.120 you see like when the folk Pet tribes were like 1:13:17.240 --> 1:13:20.040 killing some of their buffalo to feed people during the 1:13:20.080 --> 1:13:20.840 last shutdown. 1:13:21.680 --> 1:13:23.200 I do remember that. Yeah. 1:13:23.280 --> 1:13:25.639 Yeah, there's kind of a strange reaction being like, oh, 1:13:25.640 --> 1:13:29.240 how sad that they have to to kill their buffalo, Like. 1:13:29.240 --> 1:13:30.840 But that's what the buffalo for. 1:13:31.120 --> 1:13:34.040 Yes, so it's why they the buffalo are there of 1:13:34.040 --> 1:13:35.679 culture can exist and it's. 1:13:35.560 --> 1:13:40.479 Not like a sacred cow situation. Yeah, yeah, it's sacred 1:13:40.520 --> 1:13:41.800 to them, but not in that way. 1:13:42.360 --> 1:13:45.000 Yeah, Like it's sacred to them and it is sustaining 1:13:45.040 --> 1:13:47.960 to them, right, And like that's my understanding at least, 1:13:48.000 --> 1:13:50.280 and having spent a little bit of time with people 1:13:50.600 --> 1:13:54.120 who have that relationship to other animals like that, when 1:13:54.120 --> 1:13:56.479 I think about like which inference in their caribou, like 1:13:56.520 --> 1:13:59.000 they will fight as hard as they can to preserve 1:13:59.760 --> 1:14:02.880 their cariboo herd, but that's not like a different thing 1:14:03.000 --> 1:14:04.760 from them. They also hunt the caribou and eat it. 1:14:04.880 --> 1:14:05.080 Yeah. 1:14:05.120 --> 1:14:08.679 Part of the natural relationship with them is sometimes eating them. 1:14:09.000 --> 1:14:11.960 Yeah, and like they did in that way, the culture 1:14:12.000 --> 1:14:14.559 is sustained by the ongoing presence of the animal right. 1:14:14.880 --> 1:14:16.600 I guess, I guess we just I don't know the 1:14:16.800 --> 1:14:20.200 Western mind. We can only hunt something to extinction, we 1:14:20.240 --> 1:14:21.800 can't contemplate. 1:14:21.280 --> 1:14:23.000 Yeah, wanting to coexist with it. 1:14:22.960 --> 1:14:26.559 A symbiotic coexistence where we eat them sometimes, but we 1:14:26.640 --> 1:14:28.000 don't want them all to be dead. 1:14:28.680 --> 1:14:30.800 Yeah, right, We're not just going to be like, okay, 1:14:30.840 --> 1:14:32.720 this that was from while it lasted on to the 1:14:32.760 --> 1:14:35.800 next one. Yeah, I just do the next species now. So, 1:14:36.000 --> 1:14:38.640 like people should be worried about this. This is not 1:14:38.720 --> 1:14:41.080 the end of bison on public lands. It's not the 1:14:41.200 --> 1:14:45.639 end of bison on tribal lands. But this productivity standard 1:14:45.760 --> 1:14:49.320 should really concern people. BLM is the biggest public lands 1:14:49.320 --> 1:14:52.920 management agency. Sometimes it gets jokingly called the Bureau of 1:14:52.920 --> 1:14:57.040 Livestock and Mining, which is pretty much the way it's going, right, right, So. 1:14:57.120 --> 1:15:00.360 Is there a legal definition being used here, like something 1:15:00.400 --> 1:15:03.559 from a statute or something from a contract, like, what 1:15:03.640 --> 1:15:05.599 is this? What is productive use? 1:15:06.000 --> 1:15:08.760 That's a productive use is a standard that they have 1:15:08.880 --> 1:15:12.679 derived from the term domestic livestock in the Tailor Grazing Act. 1:15:12.760 --> 1:15:17.919 And then how is domestic livestock legally defined any domesticated animal? 1:15:18.680 --> 1:15:21.360 Yeah, well they are claiming that it is domestic livestock 1:15:21.360 --> 1:15:22.480 if it is productive. 1:15:22.600 --> 1:15:25.800 But this is circular, right, So productive use means livestock 1:15:25.880 --> 1:15:27.480 and livestock have to be productive. 1:15:27.800 --> 1:15:31.400 But what is productive? It's live stock? Livestock is productively Like, well. 1:15:31.320 --> 1:15:33.439 There has to be like a cash exchange, I guess 1:15:33.439 --> 1:15:36.320 like they're saying that it has to be raised for sale. 1:15:36.680 --> 1:15:38.880 But then like, how exactly are we measuring? That doesn't 1:15:38.880 --> 1:15:39.720 have to be profitable? 1:15:39.960 --> 1:15:43.040 Does it have to be extracting the maximum output out 1:15:43.080 --> 1:15:44.320 of that given area of land? 1:15:44.600 --> 1:15:46.839 Do you have to be exporting something? 1:15:46.920 --> 1:15:47.000 Like? 1:15:47.120 --> 1:15:49.040 Do you have to have a government can like what 1:15:49.200 --> 1:15:52.360 is the threshold here for what's productive? 1:15:52.560 --> 1:15:56.679 Yeah, APR has given by some meat to food banks before, 1:15:57.080 --> 1:15:59.200 so apparently that doesn't meet the standard. 1:15:59.479 --> 1:15:59.639 Right. 1:15:59.680 --> 1:16:03.640 So without without a hard and fast, like clear written standard, 1:16:04.680 --> 1:16:07.360 this is the government just deciding who does or doesn't 1:16:07.400 --> 1:16:08.759 get to do business with them? 1:16:08.960 --> 1:16:12.200 Yeah, and who who does and doesn't have access. There 1:16:12.240 --> 1:16:16.320 are issues, big issues with grais and cattle on public land, ecological, social, 1:16:16.520 --> 1:16:19.599 climate change, animal welfare. There are issues, many of them. 1:16:19.920 --> 1:16:22.120 But the idea that if you wanted to, let's say, 1:16:22.120 --> 1:16:25.240 if you wanted to raise fewer cattle and do what 1:16:25.280 --> 1:16:29.280 they call regenerative ranching to something more sustainable, you couldn't 1:16:29.560 --> 1:16:33.519 because it's not as productive. It's bonkers right on public land. 1:16:33.720 --> 1:16:36.360 Like right, so now you lose, you lose your government 1:16:36.360 --> 1:16:38.880 contract because you tried you try something, try something new, 1:16:38.960 --> 1:16:40.000 try something sustainable. 1:16:40.360 --> 1:16:42.120 You tried to be too nice to the land that 1:16:42.160 --> 1:16:43.679 supposedly belongs to everyone. 1:16:44.320 --> 1:16:46.160 So in order in order to use this land that 1:16:46.240 --> 1:16:49.080 is supposed to be for you know, public preservation, you 1:16:49.160 --> 1:16:51.519 have to be as exploitative and destructive as possible. 1:16:51.720 --> 1:16:54.120 Yeah, a great, thank you, Doug Burgham. 1:16:54.360 --> 1:16:56.880 Yeah cool. Are we going to extend this to Like 1:16:57.160 --> 1:16:59.080 I'm not as familiar with mining, but you can stake 1:16:59.120 --> 1:17:02.080 a claim on public land, right, lots of most mining claims. 1:17:02.080 --> 1:17:04.519 I imagine a state on public land and you can 1:17:04.640 --> 1:17:07.400 you can exploit that claim. Is it now going to 1:17:07.400 --> 1:17:09.840 be the case that like you have to exploit that 1:17:09.880 --> 1:17:12.280 claim and like if we don't have this standard of 1:17:12.320 --> 1:17:15.880 maintaining the land, and that it said it's gone now 1:17:16.200 --> 1:17:18.160 and that the only standard is it has to be 1:17:18.200 --> 1:17:19.320 as productive as possible. 1:17:19.680 --> 1:17:22.760 Then how is that land management? This is the Bureau 1:17:22.760 --> 1:17:23.640 of Land Exploitation. 1:17:24.120 --> 1:17:26.280 Yeah, the BLM is just and I know the BLM 1:17:26.320 --> 1:17:28.639 has done this for many cents. This isn't then this 1:17:28.680 --> 1:17:30.040 isn't new for the BLM. 1:17:30.200 --> 1:17:34.520 But having officially rescinded their rule on conserving the land. 1:17:34.520 --> 1:17:37.479 Yeah, then this could be really bad. Right, Like the 1:17:37.880 --> 1:17:41.400 massive chunks of the West are managed by the BLM, 1:17:42.000 --> 1:17:44.639 and like the idea that they're only going to allow 1:17:44.680 --> 1:17:47.320 it the most productive uses or force the most productive uses. 1:17:47.520 --> 1:17:50.679 Like this is one of the many ways that Trump 1:17:50.720 --> 1:17:54.559 administration is attacking public lands that people should talk. 1:17:54.479 --> 1:17:57.720 About more and again without adequately defining it. I just 1:17:57.720 --> 1:18:01.000 feel like this is another vector for is handing out 1:18:01.120 --> 1:18:04.519 government resources to donors allies. 1:18:04.840 --> 1:18:08.519 Yeah, and like without any change in statute. Right, this 1:18:08.640 --> 1:18:13.040 is the law that Bergham is reinterpreting. Here, You've got 1:18:13.040 --> 1:18:15.280 the nineteen thirty four Tailor Grazing Act and then like 1:18:15.439 --> 1:18:17.960 there's a nineteen seventy six law that that and the 1:18:18.000 --> 1:18:20.960 statutory language is that the BLM should manage the land 1:18:20.960 --> 1:18:25.320 for multiple use and sustained yield. That is broad, but 1:18:25.520 --> 1:18:28.040 like we are not going to get this Congress to 1:18:28.040 --> 1:18:28.880 pass a better one. 1:18:29.040 --> 1:18:31.040 No, And if anybody does try to take this to court, 1:18:31.080 --> 1:18:33.280 the Supreme Court will just say, no, you have to 1:18:33.280 --> 1:18:34.320 strip mine the field. 1:18:34.800 --> 1:18:36.400 Yeah yeah, yeah, like your only choice. 1:18:36.720 --> 1:18:39.280 You have to frack, even whether or not you have 1:18:39.320 --> 1:18:40.120 to set up tracking. 1:18:41.439 --> 1:18:43.680 You're dure like obliged to do feed lands even though 1:18:43.720 --> 1:18:47.920 you can't. Like, it's just like a really concerning area 1:18:48.080 --> 1:18:52.720 that I think has been approached kind of almost tokenistically 1:18:52.760 --> 1:18:56.719 in some of the press. Like this is bad for everyone, 1:18:56.800 --> 1:18:59.400 right if the government is saying you can only ranch 1:18:59.439 --> 1:19:01.840 this way on a big pland, like that's also bad 1:19:01.880 --> 1:19:05.080 for ranches all over the west, right, I don't think 1:19:05.320 --> 1:19:09.160 that like the way that we restore our land to 1:19:09.320 --> 1:19:13.320 its custodians and to like its natural state. It's big 1:19:13.360 --> 1:19:16.880 private parks like APR is like a private national park, right, 1:19:16.920 --> 1:19:18.800 Like you can walk through lots of it, you can 1:19:19.360 --> 1:19:21.840 hunt on it like public land. Some places you can 1:19:21.920 --> 1:19:25.559 camp on it. They have dispersed camping. That's nice. I 1:19:25.600 --> 1:19:28.040 don't believe in the benevolence of the rich, because like, 1:19:28.080 --> 1:19:30.200 look how we fucking got here, right. 1:19:30.000 --> 1:19:32.680 But that that half measure was the best thing we 1:19:32.840 --> 1:19:36.000 had at this moment, and now it's illegal. 1:19:36.560 --> 1:19:39.960 Yeah, now it's And like I'm glad that these rich 1:19:40.040 --> 1:19:42.280 people are putting buffalo on the landscape because we need 1:19:42.320 --> 1:19:44.040 more of them. Like, if we're ever going to have 1:19:44.439 --> 1:19:48.320 truly wild herds, we need that genetic diversity. Right, They've 1:19:48.360 --> 1:19:51.120 been through horrible genetic bottlenecks in getting up to this 1:19:51.200 --> 1:19:52.120 half a million number. 1:19:52.360 --> 1:19:54.360 Right, It's not like we can just try again later, 1:19:54.520 --> 1:19:56.280 let it, let the number drop back down. We'll try 1:19:56.320 --> 1:19:58.880 again in a hundred years, Like at some point we've 1:19:58.880 --> 1:19:59.519 missed the boat. 1:20:00.360 --> 1:20:03.080 Yeah, and as the climate continues to change, we have 1:20:03.160 --> 1:20:06.760 to think about how land management, food procurement plays a 1:20:06.840 --> 1:20:11.839 role in our future. And like this is the opposite 1:20:11.880 --> 1:20:14.160 of doing that. And I think people ought to be 1:20:14.240 --> 1:20:17.760 concerned about that. There's not much you could do about it, 1:20:17.840 --> 1:20:20.840 Like it's these people who weren't elected ruling on things 1:20:20.880 --> 1:20:24.519 that are not saturtary. But it is something that I 1:20:24.560 --> 1:20:27.600 think people ought to add to that many concerns with 1:20:27.600 --> 1:20:29.200 the Trump administration. 1:20:28.800 --> 1:20:29.920 I guess he more worried. 1:20:30.439 --> 1:20:31.800 Yeah, I don't know. I don't want you to be 1:20:31.800 --> 1:20:33.439 more worried. I want you to go outside, like see 1:20:33.439 --> 1:20:34.759 a buffalo. It will be nice. 1:20:34.960 --> 1:20:37.519 That would at least know that I don't know the 1:20:38.200 --> 1:20:40.280 future existence of the world as we know it is 1:20:40.320 --> 1:20:43.120 being intact from all sides, even from directions I wasn't 1:20:43.160 --> 1:20:46.439 aware of. Yeah, there are attack vectors that I just 1:20:46.479 --> 1:20:47.320 had not considered. 1:20:48.040 --> 1:20:49.840 Yeah, this is a new and exciting way that they're 1:20:49.880 --> 1:20:53.840 making tit worse. So yeah, I hope you enjoyed a 1:20:53.840 --> 1:20:56.559 little diversion about buffalo. Next week, I want to talk 1:20:56.600 --> 1:20:59.320 about bears. I want to tear the bears. 1:20:59.320 --> 1:21:02.120 I'm excited to learn about because I've seen a bear 1:21:02.160 --> 1:21:04.880 and I know they live in the United States unlike 1:21:04.960 --> 1:21:05.280 they do. 1:21:07.680 --> 1:21:11.360 I guess I was thinking of like spring Bok. Maybe 1:21:12.080 --> 1:21:15.160 they kind of they look like that in it. 1:21:16.000 --> 1:21:17.920 M I don't know what. 1:21:18.120 --> 1:21:20.920 I've been to a zoo and big of antelope type 1:21:20.920 --> 1:21:22.400 animals there, so I just I don't know. 1:21:22.439 --> 1:21:24.160 Everything at the zoo must be from far away. 1:21:25.040 --> 1:21:25.120 Now. 1:21:25.280 --> 1:21:28.360 The prong horn is like it's a there's a there's 1:21:28.360 --> 1:21:30.719 a cool zoo. I'm not a big zoo guy. 1:21:30.920 --> 1:21:32.320 You've got to make sure it's one of one of 1:21:32.320 --> 1:21:34.479 those ones that a credited zoo. 1:21:34.640 --> 1:21:34.880 Yeah. 1:21:35.200 --> 1:21:38.559 Yeah, there's one in Palm Springs where you can see 1:21:38.600 --> 1:21:40.320 I've seen big hon I've been fortunate enough to see 1:21:40.320 --> 1:21:44.080 big horn sheep in their natural habitat. But for most people, 1:21:44.400 --> 1:21:46.080 your best chance, again they look at the big horn 1:21:46.120 --> 1:21:48.840 sheep is to get to that one in Palm Springs. 1:21:49.120 --> 1:21:51.600 When you see a prong horn just pronging, you know, 1:21:51.720 --> 1:21:55.920 like do they like yeah, they bounce al they got 1:21:55.960 --> 1:21:59.559 those giant tendons right that they buffalo can go thirty 1:21:59.560 --> 1:22:01.520 five miles an hour and they're faster than a buffalo. 1:22:01.640 --> 1:22:03.240 So like, I don't want to see a buffalo go 1:22:03.280 --> 1:22:05.400 thirty five miles an hour. I don't want to see that. 1:22:05.760 --> 1:22:08.000 They can be it. Yeah, it's like seeing a mini 1:22:08.080 --> 1:22:10.840 van like doing muscle cars. Shit, you know, like they 1:22:10.840 --> 1:22:13.559 can jump, they could. They have this incredible buffalo can 1:22:13.680 --> 1:22:17.080 like jump over stuff. They're they're actually very nimble despite 1:22:17.200 --> 1:22:19.559 looking you know, like a like a cinder block. 1:22:19.840 --> 1:22:21.880 They're so cute that I want to touch one so bad, 1:22:21.920 --> 1:22:22.439 but I don't. 1:22:22.280 --> 1:22:25.840 Want to get vice against it. Yeah, bricellosis is going 1:22:25.880 --> 1:22:28.520 to be a long term issue. It's yeah, it's the trampoline. 1:22:28.560 --> 1:22:31.559 There'll be a short term issue for you. So yeah, 1:22:31.560 --> 1:22:35.360 don't touch buffalo, don't touch them. Send send Molly pictures 1:22:35.360 --> 1:22:36.879 of your prong horning counters. 1:22:37.000 --> 1:22:39.040 Yeah, if you have seen a wild animal in the 1:22:39.120 --> 1:22:40.800 United States, let me see it. 1:22:41.200 --> 1:22:42.080 I don't know we had those. 1:22:43.080 --> 1:22:47.200 Yeah, can in Molly's replies with your raccoons in your trash. 1:22:46.920 --> 1:22:49.439 Raccoons I know about I've seen it, right, Yeah, yeah 1:22:50.160 --> 1:22:50.400 it was. 1:22:50.960 --> 1:22:54.640 I was in South Korea many years ago at a 1:22:54.720 --> 1:22:56.880 theme park that had a zoo in it. I don't know, 1:22:56.880 --> 1:23:00.400 it's a while ago. Perfect in the zoo area, there 1:23:00.439 --> 1:23:03.800 was this huge display. Everyone was crowded around this very 1:23:03.920 --> 1:23:07.120 cool zoo animal was raccoons. 1:23:07.400 --> 1:23:10.880 Oh really, they don't have them. Yeah, they play such 1:23:10.880 --> 1:23:14.040 a cultural role in the American cultural hegemonies. 1:23:14.080 --> 1:23:16.000 I don't want to see a raccoon, but I guess yeah, 1:23:16.000 --> 1:23:18.879 if you can't see one, that's an intriguing get. 1:23:18.760 --> 1:23:21.800 So, yeah, I remember, I like, my initial engagement with 1:23:21.920 --> 1:23:26.000 raccoons was through the movie Pokahontists, which is a whole 1:23:26.000 --> 1:23:28.240 other ship. So when I first saw a raccoon, I 1:23:28.280 --> 1:23:30.559 wanted to visit it, right, because you know, they have biscuits. 1:23:30.680 --> 1:23:33.160 Yeah, you thought it was gonna be like a chatty yeah. 1:23:33.520 --> 1:23:34.360 Like a little friend. 1:23:34.760 --> 1:23:39.599 Yeah, it was very aggressive, be unnecessarily aggressive a little friend. Yeah, 1:23:39.600 --> 1:23:41.519 I was approaching in a spirit of kindness. I think, 1:23:41.600 --> 1:23:44.360 like generally, I also have been victimized by a skunk 1:23:44.439 --> 1:23:46.320 for several years now, so I think maybe I just 1:23:46.760 --> 1:23:49.400 that's not a friend. No, it's fine. 1:23:49.479 --> 1:23:51.559 Those ladies on TikTok that have pet ones will tell 1:23:51.600 --> 1:23:52.599 you that is not a friend. 1:23:53.080 --> 1:23:56.280 Apparently they're very nice if they like, can be encouraged 1:23:56.320 --> 1:23:57.760 not to. I don't know, I don't think it. Don't please, 1:23:57.760 --> 1:23:59.679 don't capture a skunk, can bring it home with you, 1:23:59.720 --> 1:24:01.800 like it's skunk wants to live on its own. But yeah, 1:24:01.800 --> 1:24:05.000 this one skunk will find me every time I'm going 1:24:05.000 --> 1:24:06.639 through that, like I'll be coming out at night. 1:24:07.560 --> 1:24:08.719 He's thinking about you. 1:24:08.880 --> 1:24:11.920 On my head. It's like a fucking Exocet missile. I 1:24:12.000 --> 1:24:14.559 see him coming from like two hundred yards away. 1:24:14.840 --> 1:24:16.200 It's the fucking guy again. 1:24:16.520 --> 1:24:18.960 Yeah, he's pissed at me. I'm pissed at him. He 1:24:19.000 --> 1:24:20.479 turns around, he squares up. 1:24:20.600 --> 1:24:22.160 Did you get got No? 1:24:22.160 --> 1:24:24.360 No, he'll show his ass to me and then I'll 1:24:24.840 --> 1:24:27.320 I'll just kind of give him a wide berth and think, oh, 1:24:27.320 --> 1:24:28.680 that was unusual, seeing it's gounn to be that, And 1:24:28.720 --> 1:24:30.120 then two weeks later, there he is again. 1:24:31.000 --> 1:24:32.720 Yeah, he's waiting for you. He does not want you 1:24:32.760 --> 1:24:33.160 to come back. 1:24:33.240 --> 1:24:36.800 Yeah, no, he doesn't. He's also trying to like exercise 1:24:36.840 --> 1:24:38.759 control over the public land and aggressive. 1:24:39.160 --> 1:24:41.400 He's doing land management and you're not part of it. 1:24:41.840 --> 1:24:44.439 Yeah. Yeah, he's returning it to its natural state by 1:24:44.520 --> 1:24:46.840 keeping European people off the land, which I guess is 1:24:47.200 --> 1:24:48.600 honestly valid, respectable. 1:24:48.680 --> 1:24:51.080 He's heard horror stories from his great grandparents. 1:24:51.320 --> 1:24:53.240 Yeah, I can respect that night and now I think 1:24:53.240 --> 1:24:55.400 of it in that way. But yeah, I've got some 1:24:55.439 --> 1:24:59.000 good pictures of the back end of him. Well after 1:24:59.040 --> 1:25:00.880 he kept doing it, I thought, I'm as well photograph 1:25:00.960 --> 1:25:04.760 and document this tendency. So yeah, I have them. I'm 1:25:04.840 --> 1:25:06.679 going to use them for some kind of greetings card 1:25:06.800 --> 1:25:07.960 or something they haven't yet. 1:25:07.840 --> 1:25:09.599 Perfect with the family Christmas card, I think. 1:25:09.960 --> 1:25:14.719 Yeah, I just keep people on their toes. We've rambled enough, okay, Yeah, 1:25:14.760 --> 1:25:17.280 please send us your wildlife pictures. We would love to 1:25:17.320 --> 1:25:17.720 see them. 1:25:17.840 --> 1:25:20.200 And next week bears bears. 1:25:20.280 --> 1:25:21.960 Yeah, money before we go. Do you want to plug 1:25:22.040 --> 1:25:24.799 your podcast about people who probably don't engage with animals 1:25:24.880 --> 1:25:25.280 very much? 1:25:25.520 --> 1:25:27.479 Oh yeah, you can listen to my show A weird 1:25:27.479 --> 1:25:29.600 Little Guys. I don't think there's been an animal in 1:25:29.600 --> 1:25:31.840 the show in a while. Well, I guess eventually I 1:25:31.880 --> 1:25:34.439 will get around to those guys that occupied that BLM land. 1:25:34.520 --> 1:25:35.840 But yeah, yeah, that's it. 1:25:36.200 --> 1:25:37.120 But it's that kind of shell. 1:25:37.880 --> 1:25:40.559 Yeah. I bet they love wolves. I bet I bet 1:25:40.600 --> 1:25:42.240 they like think a lot about wolves even though they 1:25:42.240 --> 1:25:42.800 don't see them. 1:25:43.439 --> 1:25:45.639 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a guy who had 1:25:46.080 --> 1:25:49.719 his user name on a Nazi forum was the device 1:25:49.760 --> 1:25:53.080 a wolf, which is incorrect German for the white wolf. 1:25:53.520 --> 1:25:56.920 Perfectly, they do love wolves, Yeah, yeah, could I guess. 1:25:57.200 --> 1:25:58.520 Thank you very much, Molly. 1:25:59.080 --> 1:25:59.879 Thank you, James. 1:26:12.640 --> 1:26:15.679 Welcome to take it out here a podcast where I 1:26:15.840 --> 1:26:19.880 try to explain economics to you and Molly. I'm your host, 1:26:19.960 --> 1:26:22.760 Fia Lung, And thank you Molly for agreeing to do this, 1:26:22.880 --> 1:26:26.320 especially on extremely short notice. So I appreciate it. 1:26:26.400 --> 1:26:28.840 I am so excited to struggle to learn. 1:26:30.720 --> 1:26:35.320 So, okay, there's good news and bad news. The good 1:26:35.360 --> 1:26:39.040 news is that the central thing that this episode is about, 1:26:39.439 --> 1:26:44.240 nominally is a concept called monopsony, and it's actually really easy. 1:26:44.280 --> 1:26:44.320 No. 1:26:44.439 --> 1:26:46.280 See you said that. You said that in the work 1:26:46.360 --> 1:26:48.639 chat earlier. You said monopsy and I was like, oh man, 1:26:48.720 --> 1:26:50.880 she's so tired. That's not even a word. 1:26:51.840 --> 1:26:54.320 Well, okay, this actually gets into the thing because this 1:26:54.520 --> 1:26:58.840 is a word that was made up specifically for this concept. Unfortunately, 1:26:58.840 --> 1:27:00.479 I do also have to do the bad news, which 1:27:00.520 --> 1:27:03.240 is that to actually understand the history of this, we 1:27:03.320 --> 1:27:06.680 do have to explain stuff that's legitimately very complicated. So 1:27:07.479 --> 1:27:11.559 I'm locked in. Yay, but okay, okay, monopsony. The hook 1:27:11.600 --> 1:27:13.320 of this, this is part of the reason why you 1:27:13.320 --> 1:27:18.080 get paid like shit is because of monopsony. So I 1:27:18.160 --> 1:27:22.040 first was interested in writing about this specifically for this 1:27:22.120 --> 1:27:28.759 show because weirdly NPR's Planet Money Like discovered the concept 1:27:28.800 --> 1:27:32.240 of monopsony and did it a couple of pretty interesting 1:27:32.280 --> 1:27:37.679 pieces on the history of the concept. And the place 1:27:37.840 --> 1:27:41.840 that they go with it is they start talking about 1:27:41.880 --> 1:27:46.080 one of my favorite economists, Joan Robinson, who is really 1:27:46.120 --> 1:27:48.120 good and we're gonna spend most of this episode talking 1:27:48.120 --> 1:27:51.200 about her. But one of the stories that they tell 1:27:51.240 --> 1:27:54.479 this is a very famous story in the circles of 1:27:54.479 --> 1:27:58.880 economists that I'm around, I guess is about her sitting 1:27:58.920 --> 1:28:01.960 down with like a British class system inventing the term monopsony. 1:28:02.479 --> 1:28:04.000 So okay, what is what is. 1:28:03.960 --> 1:28:06.639 Monopson it's one something mono. 1:28:07.200 --> 1:28:10.840 You know what a monopoly is. So monopoly is when 1:28:10.880 --> 1:28:13.920 one seller, right, So okay, it's like, yeah, you have 1:28:14.400 --> 1:28:16.240 I don't know, you have like Google, which is a 1:28:16.280 --> 1:28:19.640 monopoly on like search engines. Right, And you know, monopoly 1:28:20.479 --> 1:28:22.720 doesn't necessarily and what we'll be getting into this more 1:28:22.720 --> 1:28:24.439 in a second, it doesn't necessarily have to mean that 1:28:24.479 --> 1:28:28.440 there's literally only one right. But you know, like the US, 1:28:28.439 --> 1:28:31.880 like every market you are dealing with in the United 1:28:31.920 --> 1:28:35.519 States is some kind of monopoly where you know, sometimes 1:28:35.520 --> 1:28:38.320 there's like a big three, or sometimes there's like two, 1:28:38.680 --> 1:28:40.240 or sometimes there's maybe five. 1:28:40.280 --> 1:28:42.720 Or sometimes it's quite literal, like we only have one 1:28:42.760 --> 1:28:43.960 power company in Virginia. 1:28:44.240 --> 1:28:48.120 Yeah, yeah, you know, And sometimes monopolies are deliberately set 1:28:48.200 --> 1:28:50.479 up by the state, right where sometimes you know, the 1:28:50.479 --> 1:28:52.000 state a state would just be like, yeah, fuck it, 1:28:52.000 --> 1:28:53.479 there's only one power company here. 1:28:53.720 --> 1:28:56.920 Oh no, it's a private company. It's a private company. 1:28:56.720 --> 1:28:59.080 Yeah right, yeah, But sometimes private companies will be hand 1:28:59.120 --> 1:29:02.479 at monopolies like this, right, Utility companies are a thing 1:29:02.520 --> 1:29:04.599 where it does kind of make sense because having two 1:29:04.600 --> 1:29:07.639 companies setting up rival electrical grids is like a nightmare. 1:29:08.000 --> 1:29:09.760 But well, that's why the state should do it. 1:29:10.800 --> 1:29:12.760 Yeah. Well it's like it's like, yeah, this is the 1:29:12.800 --> 1:29:16.160 issue though, right, And this is why monopoly in theory 1:29:16.400 --> 1:29:19.160 is like a thing that economists are not supposed to like, 1:29:19.280 --> 1:29:23.360 because monopoly screws up the sort of like perfect competition 1:29:23.479 --> 1:29:26.880 between all of these one million different companies that's supposed 1:29:26.920 --> 1:29:28.920 to like make your life good because they're all forced 1:29:28.920 --> 1:29:32.240 to sell everything at like the lowest possible price because 1:29:32.240 --> 1:29:34.320 they have to outcompete everyone else. And it's like all 1:29:34.360 --> 1:29:36.920 of this stuff. But then if you have one monopoly, 1:29:37.000 --> 1:29:38.960 they can charge you whatever the fuck price they want 1:29:39.040 --> 1:29:41.320 because there's only one of them, and the alternatives are 1:29:41.360 --> 1:29:42.200 to eat shit. 1:29:42.280 --> 1:29:46.400 Or like like Amazon choking out. It was one hundred diapers, right. 1:29:46.400 --> 1:29:49.200 It was a diaper company that offered like affordable order diapers, 1:29:49.560 --> 1:29:54.000 and the yeah undercut them really hard concentrated period of time, 1:29:54.400 --> 1:29:56.720 so they went out of business and they jacked with 1:29:56.720 --> 1:29:57.639 the prices on dipers. 1:29:57.880 --> 1:30:00.639 Yep, yep. This is basically just what the modern tech 1:30:00.640 --> 1:30:04.519 economy is is that some company will come in with 1:30:04.640 --> 1:30:07.559 like one hundred billion dollars worth of tech money. Ex 1:30:07.720 --> 1:30:09.519 there were a bunch of ride share wars in India 1:30:09.600 --> 1:30:11.759 over this, where like all these ride share companies were 1:30:12.200 --> 1:30:15.400 basically giving people for like really really low cost rides. 1:30:15.400 --> 1:30:17.439 I mean, they're obviously still screwing the drivers, but like 1:30:17.520 --> 1:30:20.840 oh yeah, naturally, yeah, yeah, and so they were just 1:30:20.840 --> 1:30:22.240 trying to like edge of when I was out of 1:30:22.240 --> 1:30:23.640 the market so that they could take control of it 1:30:23.680 --> 1:30:25.639 and raise the prices and stuff eventually. 1:30:25.760 --> 1:30:29.320 Because it's like, you know, the capitalism enthusiast likes to 1:30:29.360 --> 1:30:32.719 imagine that the economy is like you know, Darwinian evolution, 1:30:32.920 --> 1:30:36.160 survival of the fittest, right, we evolve and compete and 1:30:36.200 --> 1:30:40.120 the best man wins. But actually it's more like intentionally 1:30:40.200 --> 1:30:42.959 introducing mongooses to the islands of Hawaii. 1:30:43.720 --> 1:30:47.759 Yeah, that's yeah, this is an evolution. You just introduce 1:30:47.800 --> 1:30:49.719 a giant weasel that aid all the bird eggs. 1:30:50.080 --> 1:30:51.720 Yeah, right. And it's like, you know, if you look 1:30:51.720 --> 1:30:54.479 at how capitalism spreads historically, it's it's not even like 1:30:54.520 --> 1:30:59.000 capitalism doesn't outproduce other like economic systems usually what it 1:30:59.040 --> 1:31:01.680 does is, like, you know, there's this line in the 1:31:01.720 --> 1:31:04.519 Communist Manifesto that I think Marx was extremely wrong about. 1:31:05.080 --> 1:31:08.000 We're just talking about like like trade is the cannon 1:31:08.040 --> 1:31:10.799 that will bring down Chinese walls. And he's talking about 1:31:10.840 --> 1:31:14.599 like free trade will like destroyed China's trade bearers. It's like, well, no, 1:31:15.160 --> 1:31:18.479 like China's trade barriers were brought down by the Opium Wars, 1:31:18.520 --> 1:31:22.640 like the British Navy like sailed in and like besieged 1:31:22.800 --> 1:31:26.800 the capital. Like you know, but when people talk about monopolies, 1:31:27.360 --> 1:31:31.439 they're talking about selling goods right right. And what Chillan 1:31:31.560 --> 1:31:37.599 Robinson realizes very quickly is that hold on, this is 1:31:37.680 --> 1:31:41.000 also true for employers, right if you are trying to 1:31:41.160 --> 1:31:46.720 find a fucking job right under sort of like the 1:31:47.360 --> 1:31:50.759 models of perfect competition that like neoclassical economics, the economics 1:31:50.760 --> 1:31:55.280 that like you learned in school, they just normally assume that, oh, yeah, 1:31:55.280 --> 1:31:57.639 you can just switch jobs really easily, so obviously companies 1:31:57.680 --> 1:31:58.559 have to pay you. 1:31:58.439 --> 1:32:01.920 Right, But in most towns there's one major employer who 1:32:02.040 --> 1:32:03.120 kind of sets the bar. 1:32:03.360 --> 1:32:05.080 Yeah, like here it's UVA. 1:32:05.080 --> 1:32:08.720 Yeah, like it's Walgreens or like Walmart, and like if 1:32:08.720 --> 1:32:12.080 you ever had to find a job, Like you understand 1:32:12.160 --> 1:32:13.000 how this works. 1:32:13.080 --> 1:32:16.640 I actually haven't, but I understand in the theory. 1:32:17.880 --> 1:32:20.439 To the listener, you've you've had to find a job. 1:32:20.520 --> 1:32:21.160 Here's you're speaking to. 1:32:21.240 --> 1:32:23.720 You're speaking to the only person who's never applied for 1:32:23.760 --> 1:32:24.160 the job. 1:32:25.600 --> 1:32:27.639 We literally never applied for a job. 1:32:28.320 --> 1:32:31.960 It's a complicated situation. Yeah, I've never Like, oh wow, 1:32:32.240 --> 1:32:32.760 good for you. 1:32:32.880 --> 1:32:36.400 I love this for you. This rules for everyone else. Yeah, 1:32:36.439 --> 1:32:39.639 Like it's really obvious that you know there exists conditions 1:32:39.640 --> 1:32:43.000 where you have monopolies but for like hiring people. So 1:32:43.120 --> 1:32:46.559 Joan Robinson like at this meeting with this classes coins 1:32:46.560 --> 1:32:50.080 the term monopsony to be like, okay, there's one seller. 1:32:50.479 --> 1:32:53.080 Okay, I'm usually against a neologism, but I understand the 1:32:53.120 --> 1:32:53.800 need for this word. 1:32:53.920 --> 1:32:56.120 I'm on board. Yeah, I'm on board with Joanne. 1:32:56.680 --> 1:32:59.800 It's a good word. She she's really cool. Yeah. I 1:32:59.880 --> 1:33:03.840 I spread mentioned the caveat here, which is she does 1:33:03.960 --> 1:33:08.280 do the like classic nineteen fifties communist thing of like 1:33:08.439 --> 1:33:11.400 going to China and then getting led around on like 1:33:11.439 --> 1:33:13.920 state sponsored tours and then coming back and assuming you 1:33:14.000 --> 1:33:18.040 understand what's happening in communist China and that didn't go great, 1:33:18.120 --> 1:33:20.200 but you know, a lot the rest of her work 1:33:20.280 --> 1:33:24.439 is really good. And this is kind of where Planning 1:33:24.760 --> 1:33:31.120 Money does a really interesting history skip, where in their 1:33:31.280 --> 1:33:34.160 version of the story they go oh yeah, and then 1:33:34.200 --> 1:33:37.160 everyone just kind of ignored it until recently it got 1:33:37.200 --> 1:33:39.599 picked back up by these economists who were like, wow, 1:33:39.640 --> 1:33:41.800 we did peer reviewed research and we found out that, like, 1:33:42.439 --> 1:33:45.519 it turns out that yeah, actually there isn't perfect competition 1:33:45.560 --> 1:33:47.920 in the labor market and that yeah, labor markets are 1:33:47.960 --> 1:33:49.920 controlled by these monopolies. 1:33:50.400 --> 1:33:53.599 And I guess you have to do studies to prove things. 1:33:53.600 --> 1:33:55.000 You can't just vibe it out. 1:33:55.040 --> 1:33:57.280 But I would say just the general vibe like I 1:33:57.280 --> 1:34:00.679 could have told you that, I told you that, Mollie. 1:34:00.760 --> 1:34:04.559 Okay, I have such bad news for you, which is 1:34:04.840 --> 1:34:08.240 we are going to meet the person in this story 1:34:08.400 --> 1:34:11.160 whose idea it was to be like, hey, we should 1:34:11.200 --> 1:34:14.280 like figure out how the economy works using data. 1:34:14.400 --> 1:34:16.200 That was a new concept for them. 1:34:16.320 --> 1:34:20.439 Yeah, yeah, was invented by a guy. We're good to 1:34:20.479 --> 1:34:22.560 get to the story of the invention. 1:34:22.439 --> 1:34:24.599 Of and it was in like nineteen eighty seven. 1:34:24.760 --> 1:34:28.240 This is a sign I got. It was like the 1:34:28.280 --> 1:34:31.320 thirties nineteen thirties when we invented this. 1:34:31.439 --> 1:34:33.679 It was in two thousand and four they brought math 1:34:33.720 --> 1:34:34.200 into it. 1:34:34.880 --> 1:34:37.920 Oh god. One of my absolute favorite stories of all 1:34:37.960 --> 1:34:39.840 time is, like, you know, in like the nineties, there 1:34:39.920 --> 1:34:42.479 was like the craze over chaos theory, which I think 1:34:42.479 --> 1:34:44.759 the only artifact of that is like the chaos theory 1:34:44.840 --> 1:34:47.960 guy in Jurassic Park, one of my classes, Wings and 1:34:48.000 --> 1:34:50.240 all these things happened. Like a chaos theory is it's 1:34:50.280 --> 1:34:53.840 a it's a like a genuinely very interesting math concept. 1:34:54.080 --> 1:34:56.920 But the thing about chaos theory is that it only 1:34:56.960 --> 1:34:59.559 applies to things that are third order equations, a. 1:34:59.600 --> 1:35:02.160 Thing I definitely know what that is. 1:35:02.360 --> 1:35:04.080 Yeah, we could go off in a tangent on this, 1:35:04.120 --> 1:35:06.000 but I'm just I'm just gonna tell the Econ show. Yes, 1:35:07.240 --> 1:35:08.920 so everyone economics to me was like, oh my god, 1:35:08.920 --> 1:35:10.639 there's this hot topic. But the problem is it doesn't 1:35:10.640 --> 1:35:12.320 apply to the economic stuff people were doing in the 1:35:12.360 --> 1:35:14.400 nineties because they don't use third order equations. They only 1:35:14.479 --> 1:35:17.479 use second order ones because they're dumbasses. This is like 1:35:17.680 --> 1:35:19.000 one of the trends of the show is that the 1:35:19.000 --> 1:35:22.280 people who do mainstream economics are extremely dumb. 1:35:22.160 --> 1:35:24.960 And I've always had that feeling, but because I don't 1:35:25.040 --> 1:35:27.120 understand the economy, it's hard for me to be sure. 1:35:27.720 --> 1:35:31.439 Yeah, well it's it's because it's ideologically motivated, right, you 1:35:31.479 --> 1:35:34.000 know the reason that you study economics in high school? 1:35:34.200 --> 1:35:35.880 Who studies economics in high school? 1:35:35.880 --> 1:35:38.479 I didn't know there are like economics classes in high school, right, 1:35:38.520 --> 1:35:40.679 like that? Right? Sorry when I say studies, like yeah, 1:35:40.840 --> 1:35:43.400 like you had to take an econo great school. Yeah, 1:35:43.720 --> 1:35:47.200 the reason there are economics classes in high schools is 1:35:47.240 --> 1:35:50.040 not to teach people economics. It's specific it was specifically 1:35:50.040 --> 1:35:53.759 designed as an anti communist thing to like teach kids 1:35:53.760 --> 1:35:58.080 how capitalism really works through like again a model where 1:35:58.280 --> 1:36:01.960 they don't teach you that monopolies exist, and you know, obviously, 1:36:02.000 --> 1:36:05.000 like some of this has been incorporated into more modern stuff, 1:36:05.040 --> 1:36:08.080 like the cause of a monopsony like kind of has 1:36:08.280 --> 1:36:12.439 entered into the lexicon of like the economics you get 1:36:12.439 --> 1:36:15.040 taught as like a little tiny baby child, which is 1:36:15.400 --> 1:36:18.320 not actually economics. It's literally propaganda. That's what it was 1:36:18.320 --> 1:36:18.840 designed to be. 1:36:19.040 --> 1:36:21.160 I mean, how fun to get to pretend to be 1:36:21.240 --> 1:36:23.920 a scientist when you don't do real math and really 1:36:23.960 --> 1:36:25.120 you're just a propagandist. 1:36:25.880 --> 1:36:27.760 Oh, it's so fun. It's so fun. One of the 1:36:27.760 --> 1:36:29.839 other things like if if you're ever like in university 1:36:29.880 --> 1:36:32.679 settings and you want to just like listen to someone 1:36:32.760 --> 1:36:34.960 complain about shit for a while, go talk to the 1:36:35.040 --> 1:36:37.960 math people about the ship people get Nobel prizes for 1:36:38.040 --> 1:36:40.680 in economics, where it's like this is like shit that 1:36:40.840 --> 1:36:44.439 like a child who studies mathematics could do. The math 1:36:44.439 --> 1:36:46.479 doesn't even have a Nobel prize, right if you want 1:36:46.479 --> 1:36:48.200 to get like a Fields Medal, there's not. 1:36:48.800 --> 1:36:50.599 Nope, that's so sad for the math guys. 1:36:50.680 --> 1:36:51.400 Matho doesn't have one. 1:36:51.479 --> 1:36:51.679 Yeah. 1:36:51.720 --> 1:36:54.160 Well, and the other thing is econsoable price is fake too. 1:36:54.200 --> 1:36:56.680 This is this is another thing that's important. It's not 1:36:56.840 --> 1:36:59.519 one of the prizes that was set down by by Nobel, 1:36:59.720 --> 1:37:02.679 which like the Nobel prices. They created their own. 1:37:02.640 --> 1:37:04.720 And the dynamite guy knew what he was doing. 1:37:04.800 --> 1:37:08.040 Yeah, but it's like literally like the Central Bank of 1:37:08.120 --> 1:37:11.559 Sweden made their own and called it a Nobel and 1:37:11.600 --> 1:37:13.639 it's not a real one. It's a fake one. 1:37:13.960 --> 1:37:17.040 Wait, so you're saying that if we are confident enough. 1:37:16.840 --> 1:37:18.799 In our assertion, oh, yeah, we could just make a Nobel. 1:37:19.080 --> 1:37:22.640 We could tell people that we are Nobel Laureates in podcasting. 1:37:22.760 --> 1:37:24.880 Yeah, I mean as a huge thing. You also have 1:37:24.920 --> 1:37:27.800 to have an extraordinarily large amount of money to do 1:37:27.920 --> 1:37:30.799 to do propaganda for this, because the reason this works 1:37:30.840 --> 1:37:32.680 is that the Nobel Prize in economics is also a 1:37:32.680 --> 1:37:35.280 propaganda effort, right, And one of the ways you can 1:37:35.320 --> 1:37:37.360 tell us a propaganda effort is that they didn't give 1:37:37.400 --> 1:37:39.400 what a Joanne Robinson, who was one of the most 1:37:39.760 --> 1:37:41.719 influential economists who has ever lived. 1:37:42.000 --> 1:37:45.920 Justice for Joanne genuinely like it's it's outrageous. 1:37:46.120 --> 1:37:47.720 It's just like one of the few things even to 1:37:47.800 --> 1:37:49.439 the people who hate her are like, yeah, no, she 1:37:49.479 --> 1:37:52.000 should have gotten one because she's one of the people 1:37:52.040 --> 1:37:55.519 who invents the idea that competition isn't perfect, Like she 1:37:55.720 --> 1:38:00.200 invents imperfect competition where there's like monopolies and shit, this 1:38:00.240 --> 1:38:02.519 is all like there's something that's like foundational to like 1:38:02.640 --> 1:38:06.640 everyone's to some extent understanding of economics, but most of 1:38:06.640 --> 1:38:09.600 our ideas are completely ignored and saying like monopsony is 1:38:09.640 --> 1:38:11.360 like a thing that you put in textbooks. But then 1:38:11.400 --> 1:38:13.519 when you're trying to like you know, you're you're an 1:38:13.520 --> 1:38:17.960 economist that like not even like the fucking Heritage Institute 1:38:18.040 --> 1:38:20.360 or Heritage Foundation or whatever you're at, like a just 1:38:20.360 --> 1:38:22.880 like a random economics think tank, right, Like you don't 1:38:23.560 --> 1:38:26.439 take Knopsony into account when you're like, hey, we can't 1:38:26.479 --> 1:38:28.760 raise the minimum wage because if you raise the minimum wage, 1:38:28.760 --> 1:38:31.080 then everyone's going to get fired. And it turns out 1:38:31.080 --> 1:38:32.599 to like, well, no, that's not true. And the reason 1:38:32.600 --> 1:38:36.000 that's not true is because if you assume that neoclassical 1:38:36.040 --> 1:38:40.280 economics is real, is that companies aren't hiring people at 1:38:40.320 --> 1:38:43.519 like the lowest possible wage that like that they could 1:38:43.520 --> 1:38:46.800 do without someone going to somewhere else. They're hiring them 1:38:46.960 --> 1:38:50.040 even lower than that because they can suppress the wages 1:38:50.080 --> 1:38:52.639 because where the fuck else are you going to work? Right, right? 1:38:53.000 --> 1:38:56.559 But also like people like human behavior is not subject 1:38:56.640 --> 1:39:00.520 to the rules of mathematics in that straightforward kind of way. 1:39:00.680 --> 1:39:03.880 No, it's very dumb and like because this goes back 1:39:03.920 --> 1:39:05.680 to something that's important to all of this, which is 1:39:05.680 --> 1:39:09.559 that like economics as a field is not it's not 1:39:09.640 --> 1:39:12.800 a science. It doesn't come from science, it comes from 1:39:12.880 --> 1:39:13.960 moral philosophy. 1:39:14.160 --> 1:39:16.200 The economy guys they're always saying stuff. 1:39:16.600 --> 1:39:19.320 They're just like confidently asserting something and showing me a 1:39:19.360 --> 1:39:21.759 graph that's just like, does not reflect my lived reality 1:39:21.760 --> 1:39:22.040 at all. 1:39:22.080 --> 1:39:23.679 But they're very confident about the graph. 1:39:24.000 --> 1:39:26.320 No. Well, and that's the thing because because because it's 1:39:26.320 --> 1:39:27.960 originally philosophy. 1:39:27.479 --> 1:39:29.800 It's like, no, the economy is going great. It's like not, 1:39:29.800 --> 1:39:31.200 we're right, not from not in my house. 1:39:31.720 --> 1:39:34.640 No, it's like it's fucking bullshit. That's a reflection of 1:39:34.680 --> 1:39:38.920 the fact that economics as a discipline works backwards from 1:39:38.960 --> 1:39:41.639 the way that a science works, which is economics starts 1:39:41.640 --> 1:39:44.080 out with assumptions about how humans work, right. It starts 1:39:44.080 --> 1:39:46.240 out with the assumption that, like everyone's like a rationally 1:39:46.760 --> 1:39:51.000 calculating actor who's like seeking to maximize their own utility. 1:39:51.120 --> 1:39:53.880 And I've never met that person. Yeah, it's philosophy. I 1:39:54.160 --> 1:39:54.840 actually no, I. 1:39:54.800 --> 1:39:58.400 Love maximizing utility. Don't get me started on maximizing my 1:39:58.439 --> 1:39:59.320 economic utility. 1:39:59.560 --> 1:40:04.559 It's literally utilitarianism, right. It's not something that's derived from 1:40:04.600 --> 1:40:08.760 from empirical data. It's it starts with an assumption about 1:40:08.800 --> 1:40:12.240 how things work and then projects that assumption onto the world. 1:40:12.800 --> 1:40:16.080 I don't want to be melodramatic, but I'm having a 1:40:16.120 --> 1:40:19.880 breakthrough here in my understanding of what economics is I 1:40:19.880 --> 1:40:23.240 thought they were just being dumb before suddenly I see 1:40:23.280 --> 1:40:24.160 it completely differently. 1:40:24.400 --> 1:40:27.439 Yeah, it's ideologically motivated reasons they have. They have a 1:40:27.479 --> 1:40:31.960 philosophy they've attempting to mathematically define, like project their philosophy 1:40:32.000 --> 1:40:34.800 onto the world, and it doesn't work very well because 1:40:34.800 --> 1:40:36.680 it's philosophy. It's not right. 1:40:36.680 --> 1:40:39.960 They're trying to prove a conclusion rather than map reality. 1:40:40.280 --> 1:40:43.479 Yeah, they're going backwards. Yeah, and this is something that 1:40:43.520 --> 1:40:45.320 we're going to get into in a second. But first 1:40:45.400 --> 1:40:47.519 we're going to get into are the products and services 1:40:47.560 --> 1:40:49.120 that support this podcast? Wow? 1:40:49.360 --> 1:40:50.520 Speaking of the economy. 1:40:50.640 --> 1:41:03.160 Woo, we are back. 1:41:04.040 --> 1:41:06.720 So one of the things that's actually interesting about the 1:41:06.760 --> 1:41:12.160 story of Joan Robinson is that there's a reason why 1:41:12.880 --> 1:41:14.639 almost no one, I mean, I don't know that people 1:41:14.640 --> 1:41:17.640 people listening to this podcast have a higher likelihood of 1:41:17.800 --> 1:41:21.040 knowing who Joan Robinson is than like almost any other 1:41:21.080 --> 1:41:23.120 group of people on Earth. But like, there's a reason 1:41:23.160 --> 1:41:26.360 why she's not extremely well known by normal people. 1:41:26.520 --> 1:41:28.080 I'm gonna be so honest with emia. 1:41:28.160 --> 1:41:31.839 The only economists I know are the ones that Jabier 1:41:31.880 --> 1:41:34.120 and Malay named his clone dogs after. 1:41:34.960 --> 1:41:36.960 That makes sense. Well, like people think you've heard of you, 1:41:37.000 --> 1:41:38.320 like you've heard of like Adam Smith. 1:41:38.520 --> 1:41:40.280 Right, that's true. That's not one of the clone dogs. 1:41:40.640 --> 1:41:43.280 John Robinson is an economist who is important enough that 1:41:43.400 --> 1:41:45.200 like you should know who she is. 1:41:45.280 --> 1:41:46.640 Yeah, but he would not have named one of the 1:41:46.680 --> 1:41:48.280 clone dogs after her. I think they're I think they're 1:41:48.280 --> 1:41:51.599 all boys. No, absolutely not. He probably like he would 1:41:51.680 --> 1:41:52.280 chainsaw her. 1:41:52.360 --> 1:41:56.360 It's bad. But the reason that you don't know who 1:41:56.400 --> 1:41:58.880 she is, and the reason that Monopsony kind of like 1:41:59.439 --> 1:42:02.240 sat in the closet of mansion economics until people started 1:42:02.240 --> 1:42:06.839 digging it out recently, is because John Robinson is part 1:42:07.320 --> 1:42:10.920 of a tradition of heterodox economics, which is it's you know, 1:42:10.960 --> 1:42:14.840 the economics that's not the mainstream ones, and all of 1:42:14.880 --> 1:42:18.599 those people who got systematically purged from every academic institution 1:42:18.760 --> 1:42:22.440 over the span of about thirty years by the neoclassical 1:42:22.439 --> 1:42:23.479 economists because. 1:42:23.240 --> 1:42:25.040 The government doesn't want you to know their ideas. 1:42:25.120 --> 1:42:27.720 I mean, like well, like like genuinely what happened was 1:42:27.760 --> 1:42:29.160 it was like it was it was a bunch of 1:42:29.200 --> 1:42:32.439 these people like hired by capitalists in order to do 1:42:32.479 --> 1:42:35.160 propaganda for them, and they went through and systematically took 1:42:35.200 --> 1:42:38.200 over and purged all of the country's economics departments. 1:42:38.400 --> 1:42:41.040 If what she's saying is the entire framework of your 1:42:41.040 --> 1:42:43.519 worldview just like functionally doesn't work. 1:42:43.840 --> 1:42:46.960 Yeah, yeah, that's that's not a good vibe for them. 1:42:47.160 --> 1:42:50.439 So let's talk about the kind of tradition that John 1:42:50.520 --> 1:42:53.760 Robinson operates in, because this is actually a story that 1:42:54.479 --> 1:42:59.160 really really tangentially the planet money people kind of allude 1:42:59.200 --> 1:43:03.480 to and then ever talk about again even though it's fascinating. 1:43:04.320 --> 1:43:08.559 So John Robinson is I guess you could call her 1:43:08.560 --> 1:43:11.439 one of the sort of first people in what you 1:43:11.439 --> 1:43:13.360 would call the post Kinesian tradition. 1:43:13.800 --> 1:43:16.639 Absolutely, I'm always saying that, do you know who Canes 1:43:16.760 --> 1:43:19.719 is an economist? Was his name Maynard? 1:43:19.960 --> 1:43:23.880 Yeah, John Maynard Kanes. Okay, he's like, like if you 1:43:23.920 --> 1:43:27.519 remember one thing about Canes, like if you need to 1:43:27.560 --> 1:43:29.040 just be like you have a flash card, you need 1:43:29.080 --> 1:43:32.400 to be like someone says Canes, he's the I guess, 1:43:32.439 --> 1:43:35.360 like the Cetagal terms like countercyclical spending. But he's he's 1:43:35.400 --> 1:43:39.400 the guy who's like, what economy bad, government should spend 1:43:39.479 --> 1:43:43.080 money in order to make economy not bad. Again, that's 1:43:43.120 --> 1:43:45.719 like the most basic part of Kanesianism. 1:43:45.200 --> 1:43:46.000 And that's all I need. 1:43:46.720 --> 1:43:49.200 Yeah, But like the thing about Caynes is that like 1:43:49.320 --> 1:43:51.920 he wants like a nicer version of capitalism, but he 1:43:52.080 --> 1:43:55.120 is like a capitalist, and so there's a sort of 1:43:55.240 --> 1:43:58.680 miliu around him that John Robinson is kind of part of. 1:43:59.560 --> 1:44:03.160 But there's a lot of elements of it. And people 1:44:03.240 --> 1:44:07.879 who Canes like take stuff from who are extremely obscure 1:44:07.960 --> 1:44:11.760 now because you know, Canes did a version of it 1:44:11.840 --> 1:44:14.920 that like took the radicalism out. I promised earlier you 1:44:14.920 --> 1:44:17.360 were going to get to the guy who like invented 1:44:17.400 --> 1:44:22.960 the concept of actually doing scientific studies for macroeconomics. That 1:44:23.200 --> 1:44:24.360 reason that makes me. 1:44:24.520 --> 1:44:28.160 So mad that the answer to that question isn't the 1:44:28.240 --> 1:44:31.400 first guy who put math in who decided that we 1:44:31.439 --> 1:44:33.479 should do math and economics. Oh, the first guy that 1:44:33.560 --> 1:44:35.680 did it, the first economists, right, the guy even been 1:44:35.680 --> 1:44:36.320 in economics. 1:44:36.360 --> 1:44:41.520 Right, economists do a bunch of math. It's just not math, that's. 1:44:41.360 --> 1:44:46.599 But like we should study the currently existing reality. 1:44:46.320 --> 1:44:47.919 Yeah, the world first. 1:44:48.400 --> 1:44:51.040 Right, it's just like trying to force reality into this 1:44:51.160 --> 1:44:51.920 chart that I made. 1:44:52.680 --> 1:44:53.320 That's awesome. 1:44:54.040 --> 1:44:56.000 Yeah, And so the guy who was like, hey, what 1:44:56.280 --> 1:45:01.240 if we observed reality? His name is Michael good for him? 1:45:01.880 --> 1:45:02.759 Great dub Michael. 1:45:03.280 --> 1:45:03.920 He rocks. 1:45:04.320 --> 1:45:09.719 Yeah, he has a long and convoluted history of stuff. 1:45:10.080 --> 1:45:11.639 Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and say I don't endorse 1:45:11.680 --> 1:45:13.479 everything he did. I don't know anything about him. 1:45:13.880 --> 1:45:17.800 Honestly, he kind of rocks. He's so he COLLECKI, like 1:45:17.880 --> 1:45:21.120 foundationally is a Marxist, right, It's not sure that he's 1:45:21.160 --> 1:45:24.360 from this school, but he's the guy from which one 1:45:24.400 --> 1:45:27.160 of the major schools of Marxist economics is born, which 1:45:27.200 --> 1:45:31.200 is called the Monopoly capital school, who are kind of 1:45:31.240 --> 1:45:33.880 the Marxist version of the people who were like, oh 1:45:33.920 --> 1:45:37.160 my god, hold on, monopoly has gotten so out of hand. 1:45:37.200 --> 1:45:40.720 We have to change how our economics work. Robinson kind 1:45:40.720 --> 1:45:44.240 of discovers Kaleki a little bit later in her career. 1:45:44.240 --> 1:45:47.040 It's sort of like a forties thing, right, She's originally 1:45:47.040 --> 1:45:49.439 writing about emperor competition and like monopsony in. 1:45:49.400 --> 1:45:50.080 Like the thirties. 1:45:50.680 --> 1:45:54.639 But Colleki's one of the people who is responsible for 1:45:54.720 --> 1:45:58.280 a bunch of these ideas around, like him and Robinson 1:45:58.800 --> 1:46:03.559 are responsible for a bunch of the ideas around. Like okay, yeah, actually, 1:46:04.080 --> 1:46:06.160 it turns out that everything we've been talking about is 1:46:06.160 --> 1:46:09.240 like the world is composed of monopolies and monoposes and 1:46:09.320 --> 1:46:15.160 everything exists at best in the state of hypercompetition. And 1:46:15.960 --> 1:46:21.640 this this becomes kind of its own school, and like 1:46:22.400 --> 1:46:24.360 you know, it branches out in a bunch of different 1:46:24.360 --> 1:46:27.599 ways through the work of some other people who who 1:46:27.680 --> 1:46:31.880 start to look at like how is price set? And 1:46:31.920 --> 1:46:34.639 this is something that we've talked about on this show before. 1:46:35.360 --> 1:46:38.400 So so like, okay, if you've ever seen the graph 1:46:38.680 --> 1:46:41.000 that like all of the econ people use where it's 1:46:41.040 --> 1:46:43.519 like prices, supply and demand, right. 1:46:43.560 --> 1:46:44.240 What is it? 1:46:45.200 --> 1:46:47.679 Well, okay, so at a certain point and we've talked 1:46:47.680 --> 1:46:50.639 about this on the show before, our friends as Strange Matters, 1:46:51.520 --> 1:46:53.639 the magazine Strange Matters, I have written about this a lot. 1:46:53.960 --> 1:46:56.759 If you like, ask a person it's funny. I actually 1:46:56.800 --> 1:46:59.640 did this by accident with a fringe who runs like 1:46:59.680 --> 1:47:02.679 a very very small business. Well it's not that small, 1:47:02.680 --> 1:47:05.280 but like run runs runs like a very very small business. 1:47:05.280 --> 1:47:08.280 And I asked her, like she was talking about, like, okay, 1:47:08.280 --> 1:47:10.160 how do we figure out how to like price something? 1:47:10.720 --> 1:47:13.040 And I talked to her about it and she goes, yeah, 1:47:13.040 --> 1:47:17.519 it's cost plus markup right. And the thing about price right, 1:47:17.640 --> 1:47:20.440 is price is not set by a graph, like prices 1:47:20.520 --> 1:47:25.559 are set by a person in an office who figures 1:47:25.600 --> 1:47:28.479 out what the price is going to be, right, and 1:47:28.520 --> 1:47:31.200 the way that they do that is cost plus markup. 1:47:31.200 --> 1:47:33.559 It's like, how expensive was the item for us to obtain, 1:47:34.000 --> 1:47:38.080 and then what's the like additional price that we need 1:47:38.120 --> 1:47:40.960 to sell it for in order to both make profit 1:47:41.000 --> 1:47:44.760 and pay everyone. And this is really obvious to like 1:47:44.920 --> 1:47:47.960 anyone who's done a job, but like, well, yeah, no, shit, 1:47:48.040 --> 1:47:50.880 of course it's costless markup. In economics, this is considered 1:47:50.920 --> 1:47:52.680 an extremely radical idea. 1:47:53.640 --> 1:47:54.439 I guess you know. 1:47:54.520 --> 1:47:56.760 In this, in this supply and demand model, it's just 1:47:56.800 --> 1:47:59.720 like whatever people are willing to pay, you just keep 1:47:59.720 --> 1:48:02.280 in create seeing the price until demand drops off and 1:48:02.280 --> 1:48:03.479 then you back off a little. 1:48:03.920 --> 1:48:08.040 Yeah. In economics, that's called like companies being like price takers. 1:48:08.080 --> 1:48:11.760 The theory and like normal economics quote unquote is that 1:48:11.800 --> 1:48:15.920 companies they don't set prices. They take the price from 1:48:15.960 --> 1:48:19.560 like what people are willing to pay, and that's objectively 1:48:19.640 --> 1:48:20.160 not true. 1:48:20.640 --> 1:48:22.920 They're just constantly standing there tweaking the dial. 1:48:23.120 --> 1:48:26.240 Yeah, it's like no, no, no, no, no, no, like just 1:48:26.240 --> 1:48:28.640 just on an objective level, what's happening is is you 1:48:28.680 --> 1:48:31.559 know this, this is what's called like administrative prices, right, 1:48:31.960 --> 1:48:33.960 and this is this is like the basic like one 1:48:34.000 --> 1:48:36.720 of the basic revelations of like post Kanes in economics 1:48:36.760 --> 1:48:40.320 is that price is set by a person who sets 1:48:40.320 --> 1:48:41.879 it by cost plus markup. 1:48:42.520 --> 1:48:46.479 And there's the precog who floats at a pool of 1:48:46.600 --> 1:48:48.519 goo and just into it's the prices. 1:48:48.680 --> 1:48:50.800 Yeah, they like see the data. It's like no, no, no, no, no, 1:48:51.080 --> 1:48:53.920 it's literally just a person they set the price. It's 1:48:53.960 --> 1:48:57.920 cost plus markup. There's some like psychology stuff there about 1:48:57.920 --> 1:49:02.000 like what kinds of prices will break a consumer's loyalty 1:49:02.040 --> 1:49:04.880 to like a store, right, because if you like raise 1:49:04.920 --> 1:49:06.559 the price at a store too much, people will stop 1:49:06.600 --> 1:49:10.960 shopping at the store. But like that's like the way 1:49:10.960 --> 1:49:15.599 this stuff actually works. And this is one of the 1:49:15.640 --> 1:49:19.680 big post Knesy and innovations is like, Hi, we're trying 1:49:19.680 --> 1:49:21.439 to figure out how price works. So we went and 1:49:21.479 --> 1:49:23.760 we asked a bunch of people how it works. A 1:49:23.800 --> 1:49:29.080 remarkable choice, yeah, right, ah God, But this is an 1:49:29.120 --> 1:49:34.439 issue for neoclassical economics because the whole like supply and 1:49:34.479 --> 1:49:38.960 demand setting price is like the basis of their whole thing, 1:49:39.760 --> 1:49:43.679 and it's the basis of all of their politics. Now, 1:49:44.160 --> 1:49:47.160 at this point, we need to talk about the thing 1:49:47.680 --> 1:49:50.840 that's legitimately complicated. Before we get into that, We're going 1:49:50.880 --> 1:49:52.880 to talk with something that's not complicated, which is how 1:49:52.920 --> 1:49:54.600 to use these products and services. 1:49:55.080 --> 1:49:58.320 Wow, we're actually doing the economy right now. 1:49:58.560 --> 1:49:59.080 We are. 1:50:10.280 --> 1:50:11.200 We are back. 1:50:11.640 --> 1:50:13.920 Okay, so we're gonna stop doing the economy. And the 1:50:13.960 --> 1:50:16.400 reason we're going to stop doing the economy is that, 1:50:16.840 --> 1:50:19.480 you know, when I talked about there being an ideological 1:50:19.560 --> 1:50:23.000 purge right people, a Strange Matters wrote about this economist 1:50:23.080 --> 1:50:25.960 named Frederick Lee who was an IWW member and who 1:50:26.000 --> 1:50:28.360 was one of the sort of I don't know, like 1:50:28.360 --> 1:50:31.320 the guy trying to pull the five thousand different strands 1:50:31.320 --> 1:50:36.120 of heterodox economics together. And he writes a really really detailed, 1:50:36.240 --> 1:50:40.519 in depth analysis of at each individual school, how did 1:50:40.520 --> 1:50:43.599 the neoclassical people come in and purge everyone and then 1:50:43.680 --> 1:50:47.519 maintain control of it. And one of the ways you 1:50:47.520 --> 1:50:49.920 can tell that this isn't about who is correct, it 1:50:49.960 --> 1:50:54.400 is about who has power is something called the Cambridge 1:50:54.439 --> 1:50:57.160 Capital controversy, which I'm going to assume Mali you have 1:50:57.320 --> 1:50:58.080 you haven't heard of this. 1:50:58.640 --> 1:51:01.639 No, I was just really sort of marveling and turning 1:51:01.640 --> 1:51:02.880 that phrase over in my mind. 1:51:02.920 --> 1:51:05.799 It's not about who is correct, it's about who has power. Yeah, 1:51:05.840 --> 1:51:08.160 I'm gonna store that one away. That's a good turn 1:51:08.160 --> 1:51:08.639 of phrase. 1:51:09.080 --> 1:51:11.200 It's a good way of understanding this, and it's a 1:51:11.200 --> 1:51:13.200 good way of understanding the central thing of like, hey, 1:51:13.200 --> 1:51:18.120 why did everyone kind of ignore monopsony for eighty years? 1:51:19.120 --> 1:51:22.160 And it turns out that the answer is that being 1:51:22.280 --> 1:51:25.520 right doesn't do anything in economics. 1:51:27.000 --> 1:51:27.960 That's heartbreaking. 1:51:28.200 --> 1:51:30.599 Yeah, it's bleak. And some of these people people who 1:51:30.600 --> 1:51:33.040 have institutional power. So one of the things that Joan 1:51:33.120 --> 1:51:36.559 Robinson is most famous for doing is her and her 1:51:36.600 --> 1:51:42.400 collaborator Piero Saraffa, who's another whole story, who's an extremely 1:51:42.479 --> 1:51:45.519 wild guy. Saraffa is the other person who a bunch 1:51:45.520 --> 1:51:48.479 of this, like heterodox economics is based off of. There's 1:51:48.520 --> 1:51:51.880 a large extent to which heterodox economics means that, like, 1:51:52.080 --> 1:51:55.280 you think Saraffa was right instead of the Chicago School people, 1:51:55.720 --> 1:51:58.920 and like the neoclassical people or Marx or you're sort 1:51:58.960 --> 1:52:02.200 of like fusing the two of them. And he and 1:52:02.320 --> 1:52:05.800 Joe and Robinson are writing out of Cambridge, the one 1:52:05.800 --> 1:52:09.600 in England. But then there's also a whole bunch of 1:52:09.600 --> 1:52:12.840 neoclassical economists are at Cambridge, the one in Massachusetts. 1:52:13.240 --> 1:52:16.280 They really can't be doing that. Yeah, well, we got 1:52:16.320 --> 1:52:17.360 to rename at least one of them. 1:52:17.360 --> 1:52:19.560 And they fight it out. That's why it's called the 1:52:19.600 --> 1:52:24.800 Cambridge capital controversy. They know more. Yeah, so, okay, the 1:52:24.840 --> 1:52:30.519 thing that they're fighting about is extremely convoluted. At some point, Mollie, 1:52:30.520 --> 1:52:32.240 I'm gonna drag you on here and we're gonna do 1:52:32.680 --> 1:52:36.400 the actual full version of it. But the short version 1:52:36.439 --> 1:52:42.240 of it is really funny. And the short version of 1:52:42.280 --> 1:52:45.600 it is that this is a fight about Okay, so 1:52:45.720 --> 1:52:49.639 you have like two different kinds of what are called 1:52:49.680 --> 1:52:52.800 capital goods. So you have like, I don't know, I 1:52:52.880 --> 1:52:55.320 think the capital's power one. It's like tools that make 1:52:55.400 --> 1:52:59.360 ice cream and tools that make airplane And the question 1:52:59.520 --> 1:53:03.040 is how do you figure out how much those tools 1:53:03.080 --> 1:53:04.120 are worth together? 1:53:04.720 --> 1:53:06.680 Well, are you selling ice cream on the airplanes? 1:53:07.520 --> 1:53:11.960 You know they where you're selling them? Doesn't taste really, 1:53:12.240 --> 1:53:12.920 I just think. 1:53:13.080 --> 1:53:14.760 Is there synergy at play here? 1:53:14.920 --> 1:53:15.160 Mia? 1:53:15.280 --> 1:53:17.680 Like, well, I'm actually. 1:53:17.320 --> 1:53:20.920 One of the legitimately the idea that you could use 1:53:21.840 --> 1:53:25.200 the same equipment to do multiple things, is like a 1:53:25.240 --> 1:53:28.599 really serious problem for an enormous number of economic schools. 1:53:29.240 --> 1:53:32.479 Like it's like real bad. It's like kind of it's 1:53:32.560 --> 1:53:35.680 kind of even bad for like the mathematics behind like 1:53:35.760 --> 1:53:40.439 classical Marxist political economy. It's it's it's really bad for 1:53:40.520 --> 1:53:42.840 like the classical people. It's not great. 1:53:43.040 --> 1:53:45.679 So my new airline where everyone gets a free ice 1:53:45.720 --> 1:53:47.479 cream is really throwing a wrench into this. 1:53:48.080 --> 1:53:51.240 Yeah, well, as long as as long as the same 1:53:51.320 --> 1:53:55.040 machines can either be making ice cream or you can 1:53:55.080 --> 1:53:57.439 be making airplane and you can't tell which one. 1:53:57.880 --> 1:54:01.080 What are they teaching at economy school? What if even happening? 1:54:01.320 --> 1:54:04.360 So we were arguing about ice cream machines, Well. 1:54:04.240 --> 1:54:06.519 So so what what they're what they're arguing about, right, 1:54:06.680 --> 1:54:12.200 is if you are doing like normal neoclassical economics, can 1:54:12.240 --> 1:54:16.920 you point at like factories and go how much is 1:54:16.960 --> 1:54:20.840 this worth? And this is a real problem because it 1:54:20.960 --> 1:54:24.599 turns out that the way the neoclassical economists do this 1:54:24.960 --> 1:54:27.920 is circular. So, okay, you're trying to figure out how 1:54:28.000 --> 1:54:30.280 much money a factory is worth. I'm going to quote 1:54:30.280 --> 1:54:33.120 here from the book Capital Is Power which has a 1:54:33.240 --> 1:54:36.920 very good explanation of what's happening here. The money value 1:54:36.920 --> 1:54:39.800 of any capital good, that is, the amount investors are 1:54:39.800 --> 1:54:43.320 willing to pay for it, is the present value of 1:54:43.320 --> 1:54:47.600 its expected future profits, computed by discounting this profit by 1:54:47.600 --> 1:54:50.600 the prevailing rate of interest. So value equals expected profit 1:54:50.640 --> 1:54:53.080 divided by rate of interest. So basically what they're saying 1:54:53.120 --> 1:54:55.960 here is that, like, okay, you're trying to figure out 1:54:56.000 --> 1:54:59.160 how much money is the factory worth. The amount of 1:54:59.160 --> 1:55:02.760 money the factory is worth depends on how much money 1:55:02.800 --> 1:55:05.720 you make from using the factory to make a plane 1:55:05.840 --> 1:55:08.240 or make ice cream. That's like basically what that's saying, 1:55:08.280 --> 1:55:11.320 and then there's a discounting rate because you're making that 1:55:11.400 --> 1:55:12.320 money in the future. 1:55:12.960 --> 1:55:15.440 The problem with all of these principles is it's a 1:55:15.480 --> 1:55:18.880 perfect blend of stuff that's like completely fucking obvious, like 1:55:18.960 --> 1:55:23.280 statements of observed reality. Yeah, and then also stuff that 1:55:23.320 --> 1:55:25.840 somebody just made up based on a feeling that they had, 1:55:26.200 --> 1:55:26.960 and you can never. 1:55:26.880 --> 1:55:28.440 Tell which one you're doing, you know what I mean? 1:55:28.440 --> 1:55:31.320 Like, yeah, like what the factory is worth is based 1:55:31.320 --> 1:55:33.000 on how much money it can make, obviously. 1:55:33.240 --> 1:55:35.360 But here's the problem. This is one of those you know, 1:55:35.400 --> 1:55:37.240 you know, the Calendart Hawes meme where it's like you 1:55:37.240 --> 1:55:41.280 can divide everything into two categories. This one surprisingly seems 1:55:41.320 --> 1:55:46.160 like it observed. Reality is actually bullshit because because the 1:55:46.240 --> 1:55:49.480 problem is all right, so, okay, so in order to 1:55:49.520 --> 1:55:51.200 find out the value of the factory, you need to 1:55:51.240 --> 1:55:53.400 know what the profits are going to be. 1:55:53.560 --> 1:55:55.560 Well, I thought the value of things. I thought the 1:55:55.560 --> 1:55:57.600 price of things was set by supply and demands. The 1:55:57.680 --> 1:56:00.440 value of the factories whatever, someone's willing to pay for it. 1:56:00.680 --> 1:56:03.640 Right, But here's the issue though, Like that's like sort 1:56:03.640 --> 1:56:04.040 of true. 1:56:04.200 --> 1:56:06.000 No, I'm just making a jug that like prices and 1:56:06.080 --> 1:56:07.440 values appear to be disconnected. 1:56:07.840 --> 1:56:10.920 Legitimately, that is drilling into the problem with what's happening here, 1:56:10.960 --> 1:56:13.200 which is that, okay, but how do you know how 1:56:13.280 --> 1:56:14.960 much money the factory is it going to be worth? 1:56:15.120 --> 1:56:17.360 So we're saying like the factory has an inherent value 1:56:17.480 --> 1:56:18.920 versus the factory has a price. 1:56:19.080 --> 1:56:20.520 Yeah, so our price. 1:56:20.360 --> 1:56:22.160 Is not reflect an inherent value. 1:56:22.520 --> 1:56:25.200 So this is also kind of the core of this issue, right, 1:56:25.240 --> 1:56:25.840 which is like. 1:56:25.880 --> 1:56:26.960 That money isn't even real. 1:56:27.120 --> 1:56:28.840 Well yeah, but it's like, okay, if if you want 1:56:28.880 --> 1:56:33.720 to compare how much two different types of machinery are worth. 1:56:33.840 --> 1:56:36.440 You need to compare them in terms of money. Because 1:56:36.480 --> 1:56:38.120 they're making two different things. You have to be able 1:56:38.120 --> 1:56:39.880 to compare them. But the problem is the moment you 1:56:39.920 --> 1:56:42.840 start doing that, you then have to go, Okay, how 1:56:42.920 --> 1:56:44.680 much is it worth? And how much is it worth? 1:56:45.200 --> 1:56:48.320 In theory is like it's it's like marginal utility. Right, 1:56:48.880 --> 1:56:51.920 So in order to know how much the machine is worth, 1:56:52.400 --> 1:56:54.400 you have to know how much money it can make. 1:56:54.440 --> 1:56:56.000 But in order to know how much money it can make, 1:56:56.040 --> 1:56:57.560 you need to know how much the machine is worth. 1:56:58.240 --> 1:57:01.880 The issue here, right, is that you're trying to find 1:57:02.120 --> 1:57:04.760 one price for how much the factory is worth. But 1:57:05.880 --> 1:57:09.760 you can't find that one price without knowing how much 1:57:10.160 --> 1:57:12.720 profit you're getting from using the factory to make the thing. 1:57:14.200 --> 1:57:19.240 But you could have multiple different levels of profit from 1:57:19.320 --> 1:57:21.640 that same factory. The problem is, how do you determine. 1:57:21.880 --> 1:57:23.440 You know, you could make ten dollars in the factory, 1:57:23.440 --> 1:57:25.800 where the factory could also make twenty dollars. How do 1:57:25.840 --> 1:57:29.200 you figure out which one of those it is? Because 1:57:29.200 --> 1:57:32.080 that's what determines the value the factory is how much 1:57:32.120 --> 1:57:34.840 money it makes. So okay, you turn around to the 1:57:34.840 --> 1:57:38.680 neoclassical theory of how you figure out what the profit is. 1:57:39.160 --> 1:57:42.400 But that theorem requires you to know the marginal utility 1:57:42.440 --> 1:57:44.760 of the factory. So it requires you to know how 1:57:44.880 --> 1:57:48.080 much profit you're going to get from using the tool. Right, 1:57:48.080 --> 1:57:49.600 you have to know how much the tool is worth 1:57:49.640 --> 1:57:51.200 in order to figure out how much a profit is. 1:57:51.440 --> 1:57:52.800 But then you have to figure out in order to 1:57:52.840 --> 1:57:53.240 figure out. 1:57:53.280 --> 1:57:55.120 So this is why they just make stuff up, because 1:57:55.120 --> 1:57:56.880 otherwise they get trapped in the infinite loose. 1:57:56.960 --> 1:58:00.960 Yeah, it's worse than that, because the value of the 1:58:01.080 --> 1:58:05.480 factory depends on how much money you're going to make 1:58:05.480 --> 1:58:07.360 from the ice cream. But how much money you make 1:58:07.400 --> 1:58:11.320 from the ice cream depends on how expensive it is 1:58:11.320 --> 1:58:13.720 to have the ice cream machine. Right, So they're both 1:58:13.760 --> 1:58:16.840 set by each other. Right, If you only have one 1:58:16.840 --> 1:58:20.120 of them, you can't calculate the other one. They're both 1:58:20.160 --> 1:58:23.400 like X and Y, and in order to figure out 1:58:23.640 --> 1:58:25.440 what one of them is worth, you already have to 1:58:25.440 --> 1:58:26.120 know the other one. 1:58:26.200 --> 1:58:28.080 Right, you need a constant at some point. 1:58:28.920 --> 1:58:32.240 Yeah, and legitimately, and this is a shit show because 1:58:32.760 --> 1:58:35.920 it means that you actually can't figure out how much 1:58:36.000 --> 1:58:38.800 the capital goods are worth in order to move on 1:58:38.840 --> 1:58:40.400 to stage two of the process, where you figure out 1:58:40.400 --> 1:58:42.960 the profit because you already need to have the answer 1:58:43.040 --> 1:58:46.120 to the question you are asking, and so like this 1:58:46.160 --> 1:58:50.960 is an issue bad enough that the IMF publishes these 1:58:51.080 --> 1:58:54.840 or I think it's maybe it's the World Bank publishes 1:58:54.920 --> 1:58:57.600 these like giant tables of like the value of capital 1:58:57.640 --> 1:59:00.360 stocks right in a country. Well, they'll go through there. 1:59:00.360 --> 1:59:02.640 They're trying to produce economic data about like a country, 1:59:02.640 --> 1:59:04.440 and they're like, okay, like how much are the factories worth? 1:59:04.800 --> 1:59:08.680 And the people who are trained to produce these books, 1:59:09.080 --> 1:59:12.440 there's multiple different values that these factories could have depending 1:59:12.480 --> 1:59:15.000 on how much money they make, and they're literally just 1:59:15.080 --> 1:59:18.080 chose to choose one of them, like at random. They're like, 1:59:18.200 --> 1:59:19.120 fuck it, pick one. 1:59:19.400 --> 1:59:22.200 This is not making me more confident about the economy. 1:59:22.800 --> 1:59:25.640 No, Well, but this is a shit show because because 1:59:26.120 --> 1:59:28.520 this is what this fight is about. It's about like 1:59:28.560 --> 1:59:31.960 the whole Cambige capital controversy is is like Joan Robinson 1:59:32.040 --> 1:59:34.920 going hold on. In order in order to like figure 1:59:35.000 --> 1:59:38.120 out your equation for how price works, you need to 1:59:38.200 --> 1:59:41.000 know something that you can only figure out by knowing 1:59:41.000 --> 1:59:41.760 the price already. 1:59:41.800 --> 1:59:43.880 Well, that's why you just feel the price in your heart. 1:59:44.280 --> 1:59:47.560 Well, yeah, but this causes, this causes like a decade 1:59:47.720 --> 1:59:50.839 of like fighting about this all of the like famous 1:59:50.880 --> 1:59:54.760 neoclassical economists. Actually, ho, can you list a Javier's dogs? 1:59:55.960 --> 1:59:59.760 Yeah, okay, so Milton from Milton Friedman, Murray from Murray 1:59:59.840 --> 2:00:04.160 ro barred, and two dogs, one Robert, one Lucas for 2:00:04.280 --> 2:00:05.240 Robert Lucas Junior. 2:00:05.520 --> 2:00:08.360 Wow. He actually, I think he actually dodged all of them. 2:00:09.360 --> 2:00:11.480 I think I think he meant by bye by not 2:00:11.560 --> 2:00:15.320 naming someone. Paul Samuel said, I think he actually dodged it. 2:00:15.760 --> 2:00:18.560 He considers these dogs to be Conan's offspring, so these 2:00:18.600 --> 2:00:20.560 are all clones of his dog Conan. He considers the 2:00:20.560 --> 2:00:24.600 dogs to be Conn's offspring and thus his own grandson's 2:00:24.600 --> 2:00:26.280 because he believes the dog is his son. 2:00:26.800 --> 2:00:28.360 He's fucking Christ anyway. 2:00:29.040 --> 2:00:31.080 Yeah, but that's the only reason I know any of 2:00:31.120 --> 2:00:32.000 those people are. 2:00:32.480 --> 2:00:35.240 Oh my god, wait, hold on, hold on, I'm sure 2:00:35.480 --> 2:00:37.480 I'm not looking at at which Robert is this named 2:00:37.480 --> 2:00:38.560 after Robert. 2:00:38.280 --> 2:00:41.320 Lucas Junior from the University of Chicago. 2:00:41.880 --> 2:00:44.520 Oh, he dodged it. It was it was mostly the 2:00:44.560 --> 2:00:48.000 other Robert Robert Slowell sloow. God damn. I think I 2:00:48.560 --> 2:00:51.520 think he actually dodged having any of his dogs be 2:00:51.640 --> 2:00:53.680 named after the people who got their asses kicked in this. 2:00:54.960 --> 2:00:58.520 I think he managed to do it. So Paul Samuelson 2:00:58.600 --> 2:01:02.280 is like after Milton Freedmen and maybe Hyek. He's like 2:01:02.320 --> 2:01:06.760 probably the third most influential neoclassical economists, and he's like 2:01:07.040 --> 2:01:09.280 one of the people at the American Cambridge who are 2:01:09.280 --> 2:01:12.440 like arguing with like neoclassical people and they lose. They 2:01:12.480 --> 2:01:15.800 just straight up lose this fight because they're wrong. And 2:01:15.840 --> 2:01:18.160 the consequence of them being wrong is every single thing 2:01:18.160 --> 2:01:22.360 they've ever written is wrong. Because if you can't calculate 2:01:22.440 --> 2:01:27.000 how much a factory is worth, literally nothing you've ever 2:01:27.000 --> 2:01:30.080 written functions that's so funny. They can't do it. 2:01:30.280 --> 2:01:32.120 Didn't of them kill themselves like. 2:01:33.240 --> 2:01:36.040 You would think, But they were just like, oh well, 2:01:36.120 --> 2:01:37.120 we'll just guess. 2:01:37.080 --> 2:01:38.640 Because I like a lot of people were like at 2:01:38.640 --> 2:01:40.520 the end of their careers. Right, you're like sixty seventy 2:01:40.600 --> 2:01:43.839 years old, you're like professor emeritus of macroeconomics at Cambridge 2:01:43.880 --> 2:01:45.680 or we're never the fuck and do you find out 2:01:45.720 --> 2:01:49.320 that everything you've ever written was no longer Like we 2:01:49.440 --> 2:01:51.400 all agree that everything you ever said was wrong. 2:01:52.360 --> 2:01:54.600 How do you do Here's the thing. They just kept 2:01:54.680 --> 2:01:58.240 writing as if they didn't lose. Okay, this is why 2:01:58.280 --> 2:01:59.959 I was saying, it doesn't matter. 2:02:00.040 --> 2:02:03.200 Who can say who wins or loses, because it's all fame. 2:02:03.320 --> 2:02:05.600 Yeah and so and so likely. Literally what they did 2:02:05.760 --> 2:02:09.200 is is that this stuff, this fight never like broke 2:02:09.240 --> 2:02:12.520 out of like academic economist circles, and so no one 2:02:12.560 --> 2:02:14.839 today has any idea any of this shit happened. 2:02:14.920 --> 2:02:16.640 Good. No, because it doesn't mean anything. 2:02:17.000 --> 2:02:19.240 Yeah, well, I mean, idiot, it does in the sense 2:02:19.280 --> 2:02:21.640 that life, to me, you can demonstrably prove that, like 2:02:22.240 --> 2:02:24.920 these people can't tell you how much a factory is worth. 2:02:25.160 --> 2:02:27.000 I've read the Wall Street Journal. I know there's no 2:02:27.040 --> 2:02:28.160 such thing as an economist. 2:02:29.040 --> 2:02:31.640 Yeah. Part of what's happening here is like the reason 2:02:31.680 --> 2:02:34.880 we all intuitively do that is because these people win. 2:02:35.120 --> 2:02:38.000 Right, So this entire like academic field just kind of 2:02:38.040 --> 2:02:39.920 shrugged and said, it doesn't matter. 2:02:40.000 --> 2:02:41.360 What we're saying doesn't mean anything. 2:02:41.800 --> 2:02:44.240 Yeah, there were like a couple of people who tried 2:02:44.280 --> 2:02:47.560 to like actually work with it, and everyone eventually just 2:02:47.560 --> 2:02:51.640 stopped paying attention. Legitimately, the answer for like modern economics 2:02:51.680 --> 2:02:53.520 is just to pretend that it never happened and then 2:02:53.600 --> 2:02:55.960 go like, oh, well, these people never produced anything of 2:02:56.120 --> 2:03:00.440 note academically, and it's like, well, on the one hand, 2:03:00.480 --> 2:03:03.000 that's like not true because the stuff that they did 2:03:03.120 --> 2:03:07.320 right is really good. But also their descendants, yeah, didn't 2:03:07.360 --> 2:03:12.240 get academic positions because you purge them all. And this 2:03:12.320 --> 2:03:14.000 is this is one of these things where like part 2:03:14.040 --> 2:03:15.960 of the reason that the new classical people took over 2:03:16.000 --> 2:03:19.040 in the first place was because they thought that they 2:03:19.080 --> 2:03:21.440 were right about this argument of like what caused the 2:03:21.480 --> 2:03:27.080 seventies economic collapse, which had like supposedly disproved Kanesianism. But 2:03:27.120 --> 2:03:31.160 then in this time period they got just obliterated, like 2:03:31.800 --> 2:03:36.640 they have taken an L the size of which, genuinely, 2:03:36.840 --> 2:03:39.720 I don't know if anyone in an academic field has 2:03:39.800 --> 2:03:43.000 ever taken a bigger L than these people did in 2:03:43.040 --> 2:03:46.560 this fight. They got just like beaten into pulp and 2:03:46.600 --> 2:03:48.760 it just didn't matter, like Nailmi. 2:03:48.440 --> 2:03:51.240 Wolf finding out live on air that her entire book 2:03:51.320 --> 2:03:53.040 was based on misunderstanding of a term. 2:03:53.320 --> 2:03:57.680 Yeah, it's it's like that shit like except this, this 2:03:57.800 --> 2:03:59.880 is like every economist. 2:03:59.360 --> 2:04:01.480 Except in this In this case, they went on to 2:04:01.480 --> 2:04:03.320 continue to produce work based. 2:04:03.120 --> 2:04:03.720 On that premise. 2:04:03.920 --> 2:04:06.560 Yeah, you know, but this is the part of the 2:04:06.560 --> 2:04:11.520 story that like isn't in the accounts, you know, when 2:04:11.600 --> 2:04:14.920 Planet Money has to explain, like why the work of 2:04:15.000 --> 2:04:19.000 Joan Robinson, like isn't something that mainstream ECCONMYS pay attention to. 2:04:19.240 --> 2:04:23.000 Oh full circle, okay, yeah, that's where we were going. 2:04:23.120 --> 2:04:25.400 Yes, it's it's because. 2:04:25.080 --> 2:04:28.520 Like John Robinson had the temerity to ab a woman 2:04:28.920 --> 2:04:32.200 b B a leftist and seeing not be one of 2:04:32.200 --> 2:04:36.879 these like neoclassical freaks and and d she beat them. 2:04:37.200 --> 2:04:39.480 Like John Robinson is one of the major people in 2:04:39.560 --> 2:04:40.040 this fight. 2:04:40.440 --> 2:04:42.160 I should I should have had more faith that we 2:04:42.160 --> 2:04:45.040 were coming back around. I thought we were I thought 2:04:45.040 --> 2:04:47.440 we were lost. I was confused. No, I get it now. 2:04:47.480 --> 2:04:49.120 So when they were writing about like it's so crazy 2:04:49.160 --> 2:04:52.840 that nobody uses this term anymore, the underlying truth there 2:04:53.120 --> 2:04:53.760 is that they are. 2:04:54.080 --> 2:04:56.200 This is why lossing over this. 2:04:56.320 --> 2:04:59.080 The fact that the reason this term isn't better known 2:04:59.480 --> 2:05:01.960 is because they entire field of economics is based on 2:05:02.240 --> 2:05:04.800 suppressing challenging truths. 2:05:05.440 --> 2:05:09.000 Yeah, and there's one other aspect too, which is the 2:05:09.120 --> 2:05:11.720 economics is an example of how this works on like 2:05:11.760 --> 2:05:14.880 a small scale, right, But this this happens on a 2:05:14.960 --> 2:05:18.240 macro scale with just about everything that you consume, which 2:05:18.280 --> 2:05:22.280 is there are two models for sort of suppressing how 2:05:23.000 --> 2:05:25.320 information spreads and how like you know how social moup 2:05:25.320 --> 2:05:27.680 has developed, where one you just suppress them or to 2:05:28.080 --> 2:05:31.560 you co opt them and you do what's called recuperation. 2:05:32.080 --> 2:05:36.000 And you know it is interesting, Like the concept monopsony 2:05:36.960 --> 2:05:41.440 will appear sometimes like like in like textbooks, but they'll 2:05:41.480 --> 2:05:44.000 just be like, oh, yeah, this is anotherything that can exist, 2:05:44.320 --> 2:05:46.560 and like monopolies can also exist. Let's go back to 2:05:46.600 --> 2:05:49.240 spending all of our time dealing with like a bunch 2:05:49.240 --> 2:05:52.720 of stuff that's incredibly fake. And they will strategically like 2:05:53.600 --> 2:05:58.120 misuse the concept of monopsony in order to deal with it, 2:05:58.160 --> 2:06:01.320 like as a critique the recouper rate, like the word, 2:06:01.840 --> 2:06:05.440 but then they won't use any of the political conclusions 2:06:05.440 --> 2:06:05.680 of it. 2:06:05.920 --> 2:06:06.960 That's clever of them. 2:06:07.240 --> 2:06:09.400 That's clever of them, so that you don't go looking 2:06:09.440 --> 2:06:11.360 for more about the term because you have it and 2:06:11.400 --> 2:06:13.120 it's defanged and you don't need to worry about it. 2:06:13.240 --> 2:06:17.160 Yeah, And the thing is that the political consequences of 2:06:17.200 --> 2:06:19.400 it is this is the thing I talked about at 2:06:19.400 --> 2:06:21.120 the beginning, which is like, yeah, I menopstmally as a 2:06:21.160 --> 2:06:22.960 concept is why you get paid one of the reasons 2:06:23.000 --> 2:06:23.640 you get paid, like. 2:06:23.560 --> 2:06:27.200 Shit, And Joan Robinson's inclusion is like, yeah, capitalism is 2:06:27.200 --> 2:06:29.120 an inherently exploited economic system. 2:06:29.360 --> 2:06:33.240 Yeah, that's the logical conclusion there, right, Yeah, but that's 2:06:33.280 --> 2:06:34.400 not allowed. 2:06:34.400 --> 2:06:39.000 No, And so you know, like Robinson's legacy is that 2:06:39.360 --> 2:06:41.840 part of her work is co opted and recuperated in 2:06:41.880 --> 2:06:45.240 a way where they teach the tiniest part of it 2:06:45.280 --> 2:06:48.040 that can't be used challenge a system, and the part 2:06:48.040 --> 2:06:51.720 of it where she deals a kind of intellectual death 2:06:51.760 --> 2:06:56.520 blow to an entire field of economics that in like 2:06:56.560 --> 2:07:00.240 the history of academia. I don't know if any one 2:07:00.240 --> 2:07:01.440 has ever been so decisive. 2:07:01.480 --> 2:07:04.680 We defeated intellectually, and yet they just sort of brushed 2:07:04.720 --> 2:07:07.560 it off and moved on. Yeah, which I feel like 2:07:07.560 --> 2:07:10.320 that is so damning, right that you're just I mean, 2:07:10.960 --> 2:07:13.400 you've just admitted that everything you've ever said is based 2:07:13.440 --> 2:07:15.880 on nothing. If you can just disregard this. 2:07:16.200 --> 2:07:20.400 Yeah, God, I can't find the exact quote, but Samielson 2:07:20.520 --> 2:07:23.360 has this line about how like they need to just 2:07:23.400 --> 2:07:25.200 treat it as an article of faith. That this can 2:07:25.240 --> 2:07:28.480 be done, and they just kept going and it. 2:07:28.400 --> 2:07:30.600 Is just so you can't tell me this is a 2:07:30.680 --> 2:07:33.600 science if you're like, well, it's just based on you 2:07:33.720 --> 2:07:34.680 just have to have faith. 2:07:34.560 --> 2:07:35.440 You just have to believe. 2:07:35.600 --> 2:07:38.000 Yeah, I mean the economy has always put on tinker 2:07:38.000 --> 2:07:40.000 Bell rules, right, Like you have to believe or it 2:07:40.040 --> 2:07:40.600 won't work. 2:07:40.920 --> 2:07:41.920 You have to clap for her. 2:07:42.440 --> 2:07:45.480 Yeah, in order for the entire system that these people 2:07:45.520 --> 2:07:49.640 are paid to propagate, because this entire school of economics 2:07:49.720 --> 2:07:52.960 is created by a bunch of right wing billionaires to 2:07:53.000 --> 2:07:55.840 get them together in order to push against like both 2:07:55.880 --> 2:07:58.760 communism and like the Kynesian idea they should pay taxes. 2:07:59.080 --> 2:08:00.840 This is something also, I guess I kind of want 2:08:00.880 --> 2:08:03.040 to conclude about this. It's like there are a lot 2:08:03.080 --> 2:08:05.880 of times where you see, like like a newspaper columnists 2:08:05.880 --> 2:08:08.040 and they're saying the most unhinged thing you've ever seen, 2:08:08.480 --> 2:08:10.440 or like you know, I'm gonna take I take a 2:08:10.560 --> 2:08:13.760 very incendiary example, and you look at like Ezra Kleine, 2:08:14.480 --> 2:08:17.240 and Ezra Kleine is like being like, oh, you have 2:08:17.280 --> 2:08:20.120 to like take the ideas of like some random fucking 2:08:20.200 --> 2:08:24.000 nazi seriously, and no, I don't, No, you don't. But 2:08:24.040 --> 2:08:27.680 the but the reason he's saying this, it does it's 2:08:27.760 --> 2:08:29.880 not even about what he believes. 2:08:30.120 --> 2:08:31.360 Oh, these people believe nothing. 2:08:31.560 --> 2:08:33.920 Yeah, this is what they're being paid to say because 2:08:34.000 --> 2:08:37.560 Klein's job is to is to act as a way 2:08:37.640 --> 2:08:40.960 to sell like fascist tech oligarchy to liberals. Like and 2:08:41.000 --> 2:08:42.120 this is the same thing with like you get these 2:08:42.120 --> 2:08:44.960 newspaper columnists who'll like say, like the most unhinged shit 2:08:45.720 --> 2:08:49.000 you've ever seen. And yeah, they're saying that because it's 2:08:49.040 --> 2:08:52.440 their job to produce this, right, Like, they're not acting 2:08:52.480 --> 2:08:56.520 as individual people. They're acting as it cutouts and projections 2:08:56.640 --> 2:09:00.200 of like the people who they've been hired. 2:09:00.160 --> 2:09:05.360 By, and those people have a monopsony on opinion. Yeah, 2:09:05.360 --> 2:09:08.680 well every opinion, every opinion writer is saying the dumbest 2:09:08.720 --> 2:09:10.720 shit you've ever heard because of monopsis. 2:09:11.200 --> 2:09:13.840 Well yeah, I mean, but like literally it's because they 2:09:13.840 --> 2:09:16.600 can they can choose who the fuck to hire, right, 2:09:17.400 --> 2:09:20.840 Like that's the actual reason. And you know, and like 2:09:20.960 --> 2:09:23.160 journalism is one of these things where it's like you see, 2:09:23.160 --> 2:09:25.320 newspapers have an incredible amount of power because there's like 2:09:25.400 --> 2:09:29.160 seven fucking newspapers left and if you want to do journalism, 2:09:29.480 --> 2:09:33.040 like you're fucked. You either like fall in line and 2:09:33.240 --> 2:09:38.760 accept them paying you like absolute dogshit, or you go unemployed, 2:09:38.960 --> 2:09:41.440 or you're like one of the very few people who 2:09:41.520 --> 2:09:43.680 was able to like make a living doing this independently, 2:09:43.760 --> 2:09:44.120 but like. 2:09:44.240 --> 2:09:47.960 Or you're us we found a way, yeah, or like 2:09:48.840 --> 2:09:52.200 a rich and successful podcaster picks you out and goes, hey, 2:09:52.200 --> 2:09:54.360 we're gonna pay you to do this, right, Like No, 2:09:54.400 --> 2:09:55.720 But I think I think about that all the time, 2:09:55.720 --> 2:09:58.400 that it really this is such a unicorn job because 2:09:58.440 --> 2:10:01.400 almost every job in media you do, you have to 2:10:01.960 --> 2:10:03.360 you have to suck it up and eat the ship, 2:10:03.400 --> 2:10:05.240 and you have to say the dumbest thing anyone's ever heard, 2:10:05.280 --> 2:10:07.200 because that's how you keep your job, and that's not 2:10:07.280 --> 2:10:08.800 our reality. And I'm so grateful for that. 2:10:09.400 --> 2:10:12.440 Yeah, I think I think that's a good place to end. 2:10:12.560 --> 2:10:14.360 I guess I don't know. We're going to end on 2:10:14.400 --> 2:10:17.240 a hopeful note, which is we got well, okay, We're 2:10:17.240 --> 2:10:19.200 gonna end on the cynical note, which is, like the 2:10:19.240 --> 2:10:21.800 only way to have an even sort of good job 2:10:22.000 --> 2:10:25.360 in this economy where employment is controlled by employers is 2:10:25.400 --> 2:10:28.440 to get incredibly mined luck, like be the most lucky 2:10:28.480 --> 2:10:29.760 person in the entire world. 2:10:29.880 --> 2:10:33.640 Yeah, so, I don't know if if you want to 2:10:33.680 --> 2:10:35.360 live in a world where you don't have to win 2:10:35.400 --> 2:10:37.560 the lottery in order to have like a pretty well 2:10:37.600 --> 2:10:40.280 paid in order to I am so close to hitting 2:10:40.320 --> 2:10:42.880 the median salary of assists white dude in the US. 2:10:43.080 --> 2:10:46.360 I'm so close. I can see, I can taste it. 2:10:46.440 --> 2:10:47.040 If you want that. 2:10:47.240 --> 2:10:48.880 I love my union podcasting jobs. 2:10:48.920 --> 2:10:51.160 Got you gotta win the lottery or you got to 2:10:51.200 --> 2:10:53.480 build a world where that's not how any of the 2:10:53.520 --> 2:10:56.240 shit works, which is what Jolan Robinson would have wanted. 2:10:56.920 --> 2:11:11.240 Sorry, Joanne. 2:11:12.040 --> 2:11:16.200 Nostalgia is a relatively new feeling for me. I'm in 2:11:16.240 --> 2:11:19.440 my mid twenties, and for the first time, I'm seeing 2:11:19.480 --> 2:11:22.920 stuff from when I was a kid come back in style. 2:11:23.800 --> 2:11:26.720 We are fully in the throes of two thousands of nostalgia. 2:11:27.080 --> 2:11:31.440 I'm talking emo, Indie Slea's denim y two K standard 2:11:31.440 --> 2:11:35.280 definition digital video and one of my favorites, the bubbly 2:11:35.440 --> 2:11:40.440 frutiger aero design style that partially inspired Apple's new liquid glass. 2:11:40.480 --> 2:11:43.440 But now that our cultural nostalgia cycle has cut up 2:11:43.480 --> 2:11:46.000 to when I was a kid, I'm starting to realize 2:11:46.320 --> 2:11:49.680 what kinds of things I'm nostalgic about. One of the 2:11:49.680 --> 2:11:53.280 biggest is two thousand and eight's Lego Batman the video game. 2:11:59.240 --> 2:12:03.760 This game is great, no dialogue, Danny Elfman, music, simple, 2:12:03.800 --> 2:12:07.320 classic designs. This game is what introduced me to the 2:12:07.360 --> 2:12:11.080 gothic art deco world of Gotham City and the dark 2:12:11.120 --> 2:12:16.480 carnival of Batman characters growing up around the prairies of Saskatchewan, Canada. 2:12:16.640 --> 2:12:20.160 This game was my window into the big city with 2:12:20.200 --> 2:12:24.440 its cathedrals and skyscrapers, and likely planted the desire to 2:12:24.800 --> 2:12:28.320 one day move to New York City. After a twelve 2:12:28.400 --> 2:12:32.520 year hiatus, the fourth game in the Lego Batman series 2:12:32.800 --> 2:12:37.640 comes out today, Lego Batman Legacy of the Dark Night, 2:12:38.240 --> 2:12:41.720 a new installment that blends stories from across the Batman films, 2:12:41.840 --> 2:12:46.120 shows and comics, featuring classic Lego puzzle gameplay with the 2:12:46.160 --> 2:12:50.000 movement and combat of the rock Steady Arkham games. I 2:12:50.040 --> 2:12:52.560 actually got to play a demo version of this new 2:12:52.640 --> 2:12:57.120 Lego Batman game last October when I attended New York 2:12:57.240 --> 2:13:00.320 Comic Con, the largest pop culture convention on the East 2:13:00.320 --> 2:13:03.880 Coast and the most attended in North America. New York 2:13:03.880 --> 2:13:08.360 Comic Con is a four day fan fest for Everything Superheroes, comics, 2:13:08.440 --> 2:13:10.960 sci fi, and fantasy, held once a year at the 2:13:11.040 --> 2:13:15.600 Javits Convention Center in Manhattan. This is it could happen here. 2:13:15.680 --> 2:13:19.080 I'm Garrison Davis. Part of my intention in attending New 2:13:19.120 --> 2:13:21.840 York Comic Con was to gauge how the big media 2:13:21.880 --> 2:13:25.000 companies and pop culture in general was reacting to the 2:13:25.040 --> 2:13:28.720 movement against wokeness, which was a large force throughout twenty 2:13:28.800 --> 2:13:32.160 twenty five. One of the first panels attended was the 2:13:32.200 --> 2:13:36.160 tenth anniversary panel for the TV show Mister Robot, with 2:13:36.320 --> 2:13:39.960 creator Sam Smil and stars Raymon Malick and Christian Slater. 2:13:40.960 --> 2:13:43.920 Most of the panel was spent reminiscing on the show's production, 2:13:44.160 --> 2:13:46.880 which was probably what most fans want out of a panel, 2:13:47.280 --> 2:13:51.040 but Mister Robot is a relatively political show. To his credit, 2:13:51.360 --> 2:13:54.200 Ismael discussed the show's origins as an anti capitalist and 2:13:54.280 --> 2:13:57.200 anti corporate hacker story inspired by the two thousand and 2:13:57.200 --> 2:13:59.000 eight recession and the Arab Spring. 2:14:00.080 --> 2:14:03.040 I took away from that is that there was the 2:14:03.080 --> 2:14:06.320 world felt in crisis. How naive was I back then 2:14:06.520 --> 2:14:11.400 that that that was what crisis was like? But uh, 2:14:11.480 --> 2:14:15.880 and and that these young people in not just Egypt, 2:14:15.880 --> 2:14:18.520 but in the entire Middle East was using technology to 2:14:19.480 --> 2:14:23.640 organize and start a revolution, and that really inspired a 2:14:23.680 --> 2:14:27.320 lot of what of what the story of mister Robot 2:14:27.400 --> 2:14:30.040 and and specifically the character of Elliott. 2:14:30.600 --> 2:14:34.360 Smel went on to call the show's imagined dystopia a 2:14:34.440 --> 2:14:38.680 quote unquote Pleasantville compared to our current political situation. 2:14:39.240 --> 2:14:42.160 Honestly, I feel like the show we did was not 2:14:42.440 --> 2:14:46.840 nearly as fucked up as what it would be like today. 2:14:47.240 --> 2:14:57.880 I mean, it's like Pleasantville now. 2:14:58.120 --> 2:14:58.400 I mean. 2:15:00.520 --> 2:15:05.080 At a panel for the Tina Romero queer zombie movie 2:15:05.200 --> 2:15:09.960 Queens of the Dead, transactor Jack Haven referenced then recent 2:15:10.080 --> 2:15:14.760 and somewhat misleading reporting that the FBI was declaring trans 2:15:14.880 --> 2:15:19.760 people as terrorists. In another panel, a trans comic artist 2:15:19.960 --> 2:15:24.440 also mentioned that trans people were being designated as violent extremists. 2:15:25.040 --> 2:15:28.720 This artist also discussed queer censorship in comics. She had 2:15:28.760 --> 2:15:31.760 drawn a cover for the DC Comics series of a 2:15:31.840 --> 2:15:36.120 character called Red Hood, but this cover was never released 2:15:36.560 --> 2:15:41.520 because the comic series was canceled by DC after the writer. Also, 2:15:41.560 --> 2:15:45.040 a trans woman made two posts joking about the death 2:15:45.120 --> 2:15:49.760 of Charlie Kirk. Meanwhile, one of the Siskuy artists for 2:15:50.040 --> 2:15:54.320 the hit series Absolute Batman. Drew art of Absolute Batman 2:15:54.560 --> 2:15:57.960 snapping the neck of an ice agent literally at New 2:15:58.040 --> 2:16:01.360 York Comic Con, and this artist continues to draw covers 2:16:01.440 --> 2:16:05.400 for the series. Speaking of Batman, I also attended an 2:16:05.440 --> 2:16:11.400 industry panel on Batman animation hosted by directors, character designers, 2:16:11.440 --> 2:16:15.640 and showrunners James Tucker, creator of Batman, The Brave and 2:16:15.680 --> 2:16:18.280 the Bold, and a producer for the show Batman Keeped. 2:16:18.280 --> 2:16:22.640 Crusader mentioned having to ignore the anti woke backlash some 2:16:22.840 --> 2:16:27.000 recent shows received for depicting certain characters as black or 2:16:27.040 --> 2:16:30.840 gender swapped. Nerd culture has been dealing with this stuff 2:16:30.880 --> 2:16:34.120 for a while. Gamer gait was a contributing factor to 2:16:34.240 --> 2:16:37.520 the rise of the all Right, and since then pop 2:16:37.560 --> 2:16:40.640 culture fandom has been one of the main battlegrounds in 2:16:40.680 --> 2:16:44.640 which the culture war is waged. At New York Comic Con, 2:16:45.040 --> 2:16:48.720 While hints of the domestic political climate did slip through 2:16:48.800 --> 2:16:52.080 in brief moments during panels, the prevailing mode of the 2:16:52.080 --> 2:16:56.720 convention was falling back on comic fantasy as an escape inwards, 2:16:57.120 --> 2:17:01.119 but not really an escape out. It's like your parents 2:17:01.160 --> 2:17:04.160 are fighting and rather than leaving the house or trying 2:17:04.200 --> 2:17:08.080 to intervene. You crawl into your closet and hide with 2:17:08.120 --> 2:17:12.240 your stuffed animals, video games, and comic books, soothing yourself 2:17:12.240 --> 2:17:16.440 with the comfortable familiar. While walking around the convention floor, 2:17:16.760 --> 2:17:20.360 I felt like I was a ghost trapped. In twenty nineteen, 2:17:21.160 --> 2:17:26.000 this particular form of nerdy superhero fandom culture was stuck 2:17:26.040 --> 2:17:30.279 in stasis, living in the undead husk of the MCU. 2:17:31.959 --> 2:17:34.960 The main thing differentiating New York Comic Con from a 2:17:35.040 --> 2:17:40.760 pure pre pandemic Avengers Endgame era time capsule was how 2:17:40.840 --> 2:17:44.760 much it felt like an anime convention. I attended my 2:17:44.760 --> 2:17:47.240 fair share of comic cons in the twenty teens, but 2:17:47.360 --> 2:17:49.480 the volume of anime stuff at New York Comic Con 2:17:50.000 --> 2:17:53.280 really surprised me. New York Comic Con itself has had 2:17:53.280 --> 2:17:57.840 a troubled history with anime. Shortly after New York Comic 2:17:57.840 --> 2:18:00.720 Con was created in twenty and six, the same company 2:18:00.760 --> 2:18:04.440 behind the convention also started an anime con called New 2:18:04.560 --> 2:18:07.920 York Anime Festival. But as the New York Comic Con 2:18:08.040 --> 2:18:10.720 rose in popularity, it started to eat away at New 2:18:10.800 --> 2:18:14.120 York Anime Festival. The two conventions merged in twenty ten, 2:18:14.760 --> 2:18:17.920 but that meant that superheroes and anime had to compete 2:18:18.000 --> 2:18:21.879 for time and space at the convention, and around twenty ten, 2:18:22.280 --> 2:18:26.720 superheroes were winning that battle. To quote Anime News Network, 2:18:27.160 --> 2:18:30.160 the New York Anime Festival was quote slowly and quite 2:18:30.240 --> 2:18:33.320 literally shoved into the basement at the job At Center 2:18:33.400 --> 2:18:36.920 over the years by New York Comic Con management until 2:18:37.000 --> 2:18:41.520 it ceased to exist altogether unquote. Come in twenty twelve, 2:18:41.800 --> 2:18:45.519 the New York Anime Festival component was phased out altogether. 2:18:46.520 --> 2:18:50.039 At the time, anime and manga were not doing so 2:18:50.200 --> 2:18:53.480 well in the United States, having just suffered a market 2:18:53.520 --> 2:18:56.720 crash due to a combination of factors related to the 2:18:56.720 --> 2:19:01.360 Great Recession, the pivot from DVD to digital, the bankruptcy 2:19:01.400 --> 2:19:05.440 of the Borders bookstore, the shutdown of the US distributor 2:19:05.520 --> 2:19:09.680 Bandai Entertainment, and manga publisher Tokyo Pop, followed by the 2:19:09.720 --> 2:19:14.440 twenty eleven Tokohu earthquake, which disrupted manga and anime production. 2:19:15.320 --> 2:19:18.400 So it wasn't at all surprising that Western media and 2:19:18.440 --> 2:19:22.600 the then ascended superhero genre dominated the New York Comic 2:19:22.640 --> 2:19:26.920 Con show floor. But now, oh, how the tables have turned. 2:19:27.840 --> 2:19:31.720 Come twenty twenty five, the exhibition boots for major Western 2:19:31.760 --> 2:19:35.520 pop culture companies were outnumbered and dwarfed in size by 2:19:35.600 --> 2:19:41.520 Japanese animation, manga and video game booths. This humiliation wasn't 2:19:41.560 --> 2:19:45.680 isolated to the show floor. Even before entering the exhibition space, 2:19:46.120 --> 2:19:49.039 huge banners hung in front of the main entrance for 2:19:49.200 --> 2:19:53.600 anime like My Hero, Academia, Digimon Gundam and the new 2:19:53.680 --> 2:19:57.680 manga Love Bullet banner ads for Crunchy Rolls New Manga 2:19:57.720 --> 2:20:01.240 Reading Platform covered the glass walls at the Javits Convention Center. 2:20:01.879 --> 2:20:05.199 The only banner that rivaled the anime ones in size 2:20:05.760 --> 2:20:09.200 was for the Anne Rice Gay Vampire Show on AMC. 2:20:10.440 --> 2:20:12.879 Once you got to the show floor, the company with 2:20:12.920 --> 2:20:17.600 the biggest single presence was Japanese entertainment company Bandai Namco. 2:20:18.240 --> 2:20:22.240 This was by a large margin. The Bandai Namco presence 2:20:22.320 --> 2:20:27.200 was significantly bigger than the Marvel and DC booths combined. 2:20:28.040 --> 2:20:30.760 Most but not all, of the Japanese and South Korean 2:20:30.760 --> 2:20:34.840 companies were concentrated in the middle of the exhibition floor, 2:20:35.160 --> 2:20:37.920 next to the main entrance. On the north side. Toy 2:20:38.000 --> 2:20:41.800 Animation of Dragon Ball and One Piece Fame had their 2:20:41.800 --> 2:20:44.720 booth right at the show floor entrance. And it was 2:20:44.760 --> 2:20:49.279 bigger than the Nickelodeon, Avatar and Paramount Star Trek booths combined. 2:20:50.120 --> 2:20:54.200 The Adult Swim and HBO Max booths were even smaller combined, 2:20:54.360 --> 2:20:57.320 They took up significantly less floor space and were less 2:20:57.360 --> 2:20:59.880 busy than the exhibition booth for the Japanese and a 2:21:00.320 --> 2:21:03.680 company behind Chainsawman, Jujitsu, Kaizen and the Attack on Titan 2:21:03.680 --> 2:21:07.720 Finale Studio Mappa, who had a booth at New York 2:21:07.760 --> 2:21:11.680 Comic Con for the very first time. Anime and manga 2:21:11.720 --> 2:21:15.280 distributor Crunchy Role had a larger presence on the show 2:21:15.320 --> 2:21:19.520 floor than the combined presence of publishing giants Scholastic and 2:21:19.600 --> 2:21:23.320 Penguin Random House. The Crunchy Role booth was also bigger 2:21:23.360 --> 2:21:27.480 than the one for DC Comics. Manga publisher Viz Media 2:21:27.800 --> 2:21:30.000 has maintained a large presence on the show floor for 2:21:30.040 --> 2:21:34.800 the past decade. Viz Media is the largest physical publisher 2:21:34.840 --> 2:21:38.480 of graphic novels in the United States with twenty five 2:21:38.520 --> 2:21:41.080 percent of the market share, and is owned by the 2:21:41.120 --> 2:21:43.960 same company that publishes shown in Jump, which is the 2:21:44.280 --> 2:21:48.560 largest physical comic publisher in the world. The biggest global 2:21:48.560 --> 2:21:52.320 publisher of comics in general is the South Korean digital 2:21:52.360 --> 2:21:57.360 comic platform Webtune, who also had a comparatively large exhibition booth, 2:21:57.760 --> 2:22:02.000 as did Japanese video game companies Nami and Capcom. The 2:22:02.080 --> 2:22:05.160 video game Ninja Gaidan four had a booth to itself, 2:22:05.680 --> 2:22:08.920 and collectible card game company Boushi Road had a booth 2:22:09.040 --> 2:22:12.720 rivaling that of card game Titan Wizards of the Coast. 2:22:13.640 --> 2:22:16.920 Even the sort of third party merch slot that you 2:22:17.000 --> 2:22:19.959 find at these types of conventions was selling more and 2:22:20.040 --> 2:22:24.160 more anime stuff than I'd seen in previous years. Looking 2:22:24.160 --> 2:22:26.680 back at the New York Comic Con twenty eighteen show 2:22:26.760 --> 2:22:31.080 floor map, Bandai Mco. Had a much smaller booth, about 2:22:31.080 --> 2:22:34.560 the same size as Dark Horse Comics. This was less 2:22:34.600 --> 2:22:38.360 than one quarter of the size of Bandai's show floor 2:22:38.400 --> 2:22:42.840 presence in twenty twenty five. Besides Bandai, the other animeor 2:22:42.920 --> 2:22:46.240 manga related booths in twenty eighteen were for Dragon Ball, 2:22:46.440 --> 2:22:50.240 Square Enix, and Viz Media. Looking back at the other 2:22:50.360 --> 2:22:53.480 large booths from twenty eighteen feels like a snapshot from 2:22:53.520 --> 2:22:59.039 a bygone age. Comedy Central, Rooster Teeth, Shira, Funko Pop, 2:22:59.320 --> 2:23:04.440 and the TV channel. Of these, only Funko still had 2:23:04.440 --> 2:23:07.680 a booth in twenty twenty five, and a much smaller 2:23:07.720 --> 2:23:10.840 one at that as the company has suffered a massive 2:23:10.879 --> 2:23:13.920 drop in sales and what was once a pop culture 2:23:13.959 --> 2:23:17.400 giant is now in severe financial stress. 2:23:19.400 --> 2:23:21.760 It could happen here, well, return after. 2:23:21.520 --> 2:23:27.959 These messages we now returned. 2:23:28.240 --> 2:23:29.279 It could happen here. 2:23:31.000 --> 2:23:34.840 Outside the comic con environment. I have seen anecdotal evidence 2:23:34.879 --> 2:23:41.160 of animes growing popularity. Besides random Instagram reels or TikTok videos, 2:23:41.200 --> 2:23:44.880 the most common thing I see people watching while riding 2:23:44.959 --> 2:23:49.360 the subway is anime. When I was in Berlin last 2:23:49.360 --> 2:23:53.439 October covering a convention, on my way back to the Airbnb, 2:23:54.120 --> 2:23:58.160 I came across a group of about fifty people cause 2:23:58.240 --> 2:24:02.440 playing chainsaw Man because that night the chainsaw Man movie 2:24:02.840 --> 2:24:07.360 released in German theaters. Most of the costumes worn at 2:24:07.400 --> 2:24:11.480 a weekend Halloween party at the mood Ring nightclub in Brooklyn, 2:24:12.120 --> 2:24:16.440 We're from anime. Also fun fact, Mayor old candidate zarmm 2:24:16.520 --> 2:24:20.080 Donnie made an appearance at this party ahead of the 2:24:20.200 --> 2:24:24.280 upcoming election. US Olympic figure skater and gold medalist and 2:24:24.320 --> 2:24:28.320 Listen Lou talked about anime during interviews at the Olympics 2:24:28.600 --> 2:24:32.080 and was seen carrying around a chainsaw Man plushy your 2:24:32.120 --> 2:24:32.760 top five anime. 2:24:32.959 --> 2:24:35.240 Okay, I'm not going to rank these like in their 2:24:35.440 --> 2:24:38.119 exact places, but Jujitsu guys and Chainsawman for sure. 2:24:38.320 --> 2:24:41.199 A new chapter dropped today, Actually Today's big day. 2:24:41.240 --> 2:24:44.840 Big day reader, Yes, okay, attack on Titan. 2:24:46.240 --> 2:24:47.000 Was airon Justified. 2:24:48.520 --> 2:24:54.440 Yeah, Madoka Magica and I think it's like could be 2:24:54.480 --> 2:24:58.560 forgetting some but m soa. 2:25:00.120 --> 2:25:01.160 Graduation. 2:25:01.760 --> 2:25:05.760 But does this perceived rise in popularity actually reflect in 2:25:05.879 --> 2:25:11.160 sales well. In September, the Demon Slayer movie Infinity Castle 2:25:11.560 --> 2:25:14.600 won the US box office with a seventy million dollar 2:25:14.720 --> 2:25:20.720 opening weekend, eventually earning almost eight hundred million dollars worldwide, 2:25:21.120 --> 2:25:23.600 becoming the seventh highest grossing film of twenty twenty five 2:25:24.080 --> 2:25:28.440 and the highest grossing international film in the United States, 2:25:28.480 --> 2:25:32.440 surpassing the twenty five year record held by Crouching Tiger 2:25:32.520 --> 2:25:36.560 and Dragon. In October, the chainsaw Man movie opened number 2:25:36.560 --> 2:25:40.920 one at the US box office, beating the Bruce Springsteen 2:25:41.040 --> 2:25:45.959 biopic starring Jeremy Allen White, which no one really saw. 2:25:46.640 --> 2:25:50.400 The chainsaw Man movie grossed almost two hundred million dollars worldwide. 2:25:50.440 --> 2:25:53.560 For the past eight years, Netflix has been heavily investing 2:25:53.560 --> 2:25:57.560 in anime. Last summer, Netflix claimed that anime is watched 2:25:57.600 --> 2:26:02.160 by half its global users. In twenty twenty five, Netflix 2:26:02.280 --> 2:26:06.440 users watched almost nine billion hours of anime, a ten 2:26:06.480 --> 2:26:10.600 and a half percent increase from twenty twenty four. In fact, 2:26:10.640 --> 2:26:14.080 the rate of viewership growth for anime on Netflix is 2:26:14.280 --> 2:26:18.240 ten times that of all other content on the platform. 2:26:18.959 --> 2:26:22.080 In January of twenty twenty six, Netflix announced a new 2:26:22.120 --> 2:26:26.480 deal with anime studio Mapa to exclusively stream a slate 2:26:26.560 --> 2:26:31.440 of original Mapa shows. Polygon and Vox Media pulled over 2:26:31.480 --> 2:26:34.720 four thousand people in twenty twenty four, and forty two 2:26:34.800 --> 2:26:38.600 percent of gen Z participants in the US said that 2:26:38.680 --> 2:26:42.640 they watched anime every week. But It's not just anime. 2:26:43.240 --> 2:26:47.840 Manga exploded in international popularity over the pandemic and continues 2:26:47.959 --> 2:26:53.280 to out sell American comics domestically. Manga sales have quadrupled 2:26:53.440 --> 2:26:57.040 in the US since twenty twenty, reaching a yearly market 2:26:57.160 --> 2:27:01.280 value of about one point three billion dollars by twenty 2:27:01.280 --> 2:27:05.440 twenty three. Of the forty four point seven million graphic 2:27:05.520 --> 2:27:10.920 novels sold by American bookstore chains and online sellers, twenty 2:27:11.000 --> 2:27:15.800 one point eight million were manga. That's almost fifty percent 2:27:15.920 --> 2:27:19.400 of sales. Coming in second place was comics for kids, 2:27:19.480 --> 2:27:23.080 which made up about thirty eight percent of sales approximately 2:27:23.240 --> 2:27:27.280 seventeen million copies. In twenty twenty three is the year 2:27:27.280 --> 2:27:30.720 we have the most complete data on. Seven out of 2:27:30.959 --> 2:27:35.800 the ten top selling comic book authors were Japanese, and 2:27:35.959 --> 2:27:39.279 this is in the United States. Of the seven hundred 2:27:39.320 --> 2:27:43.000 and fifty top selling comic books in the US, almost 2:27:43.040 --> 2:27:47.080 four hundred were manga. Here's a clip of a PBS 2:27:47.120 --> 2:27:49.199 news piece from twenty twenty four. 2:27:49.760 --> 2:27:53.280 Over the last few years, Japanese animation and comic books 2:27:53.280 --> 2:27:56.680 have seen an explosion of popularity in the United States. 2:27:56.800 --> 2:27:58.879 We couldn't fill the stores fast enough. 2:27:58.920 --> 2:28:01.680 Barnes and Noble Senior director of Books, Shannondovido. 2:28:02.080 --> 2:28:04.640 The readers in the space are so voracious. It's a 2:28:04.680 --> 2:28:07.040 good thing that the series are so long and so 2:28:07.160 --> 2:28:10.840 beautifully drawn, because not only do they look for ten 2:28:10.879 --> 2:28:12.920 other series to read once they finish one, they go 2:28:13.000 --> 2:28:13.800 back and reread. 2:28:14.080 --> 2:28:17.000 Manga sales in the US quadrupled from twenty nineteen to 2:28:17.000 --> 2:28:19.640 twenty twenty two, with a peak of twenty eight point 2:28:19.720 --> 2:28:22.840 four million copies sold. It is now the fourth largest 2:28:22.879 --> 2:28:27.039 fiction category overall in the United States, behind romance, thrillers, 2:28:27.040 --> 2:28:27.760 and fantasy. 2:28:28.160 --> 2:28:32.440 It's one of our top ten subjects any day. During 2:28:32.480 --> 2:28:35.800 the pandemic, it was in our top five pretty consistently. 2:28:36.400 --> 2:28:40.640 Meanwhile, shelf space for superhero graphic novels has been reduced 2:28:40.640 --> 2:28:43.640 at Barnes and Noble the past few years, sometimes to 2:28:43.680 --> 2:28:47.280 a single shelf, to make way for an expanding collection 2:28:47.520 --> 2:28:51.600 of manga. Manga sales are also rising in the superhero 2:28:51.600 --> 2:28:56.760 Holy of Holy's direct market comic bookstores, where manga was 2:28:56.840 --> 2:29:00.800 up thirty three percent in twenty twenty five. The main 2:29:00.879 --> 2:29:04.440 driver of sales for US comic publisher Dark Horse Comics 2:29:04.879 --> 2:29:09.640 is through licensing manga like Berserk. So what might be 2:29:09.720 --> 2:29:12.360 causing this? As pop culture has become one of the 2:29:12.400 --> 2:29:16.800 main battlegrounds of the cultural war, maybe anime and manga 2:29:16.879 --> 2:29:20.800 serve as a safe refuge from the divisive, all consuming 2:29:20.879 --> 2:29:24.240 politics of the United States. A few months ago, we 2:29:24.320 --> 2:29:28.000 got behind the scenes news about the end Or Press Tour. 2:29:28.640 --> 2:29:31.920 Creator Tony Gilroy admitted in an interview with The Hollywood 2:29:31.959 --> 2:29:36.760 Reporter that Disney requested Gilroy and the cast refrain from 2:29:36.840 --> 2:29:41.120 using the words fascism and genocide in early promotion of 2:29:41.160 --> 2:29:45.800 the show to avoid political outrage. When James Gunn described 2:29:45.840 --> 2:29:49.320 Superman as a quote unquote immigrant, right wing news pundits 2:29:49.360 --> 2:29:53.960 manufactured a backlash with a Fox News graphic reading super 2:29:54.120 --> 2:29:57.320 woke and Jesse Waters saying you know what it says 2:29:57.320 --> 2:30:02.600 on his cape MS thirteen. Former Superman actor Dean Kane 2:30:02.600 --> 2:30:06.400 also complained about Superman becoming too woke a month before 2:30:06.560 --> 2:30:09.520 he joined ICE as a part of a publicity stunt. 2:30:10.879 --> 2:30:14.279 American culture war issues do effect the way our entertainment 2:30:14.360 --> 2:30:18.280 industry operates, from what projects get greenlit to casting and 2:30:18.400 --> 2:30:23.240 even corporate mergers. The Trump aligned Ellison family bought Paramount 2:30:23.240 --> 2:30:26.840 in twenty twenty five and now seek to acquire Warner Brothers. 2:30:27.480 --> 2:30:30.560 All that considered, it would seem that anime and manga 2:30:30.680 --> 2:30:33.360 may not get nearly as cut up in our American 2:30:33.520 --> 2:30:37.360 culture war debate and be relatively safe from both woke 2:30:37.560 --> 2:30:42.840 and anti woke influence. Though this idea demonstrates the limits 2:30:42.879 --> 2:30:47.280 of woke as an understanding of politics, because, of course, 2:30:47.560 --> 2:30:51.680 Japanese media is in fact very political. Take Gundam, Godzilla, 2:30:51.720 --> 2:30:54.800 attack on Titan, films like Love and Pop Jin Rao 2:30:55.120 --> 2:30:59.360 or Kyoshi Kurosawa's new movie Cloud. A lot of Japanese 2:30:59.400 --> 2:31:03.200 media russ with their extremely punitive judicial system and the 2:31:03.240 --> 2:31:07.320 country's relationship with nationalism and the military, not to mention 2:31:07.440 --> 2:31:10.200 the growing popularity of media that plays with gender and 2:31:10.240 --> 2:31:13.720 sexuality like Yaowe and Boys Love, or the common presence 2:31:13.800 --> 2:31:17.200 of gender non conforming characters in works like Jiu Jitsu, 2:31:17.280 --> 2:31:20.400 Kaizen and chainsaw Man. And yet there aren't as many 2:31:20.640 --> 2:31:24.640 anger YouTube videos to crying Woke chainsaw Man for having 2:31:24.640 --> 2:31:28.880 a beautiful, non binary twink. America is just largely insulated 2:31:29.000 --> 2:31:35.000 from Japanese political issues. Last February, Japan's Conservative Party swept 2:31:35.000 --> 2:31:38.960 a parliamentary snap election, getting over two thirds control of 2:31:39.000 --> 2:31:42.600 the lower house, the largest majority since World War Two. 2:31:43.360 --> 2:31:47.000 But both chuds and woke alike can enjoy anime because 2:31:47.040 --> 2:31:51.440 it feels outside American politics, and it is true that 2:31:51.560 --> 2:31:56.000 Japanese creators aren't trying to navigate around a potentially hostile 2:31:56.040 --> 2:31:59.320 American audience, which means they can do certain things that 2:31:59.400 --> 2:32:04.440 American com companies might find too risky. The vitriolic reactions 2:32:04.440 --> 2:32:08.320 to the Last Jedi definitely affected Disney's plans for Star Wars, 2:32:08.760 --> 2:32:14.600 which soon prioritized the comparatively safe and sanitized Mandalorian TV show, 2:32:15.120 --> 2:32:18.240 which has a movie version coming out this week. Most 2:32:18.280 --> 2:32:21.760 of the non and Or Star Wars shows are primarily 2:32:21.800 --> 2:32:25.600 trying to capitalize on nostalgia, whether for the original trilogy, 2:32:25.720 --> 2:32:28.680 the prequels, or even the Clone Wars TV show from 2:32:28.760 --> 2:32:32.560 the two thousands. And Or was championed and protected by 2:32:32.640 --> 2:32:36.600 Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy, but now she's transitioning out of 2:32:36.600 --> 2:32:40.720 that role. In an exit interview with Deadline, Kathy Kennedy 2:32:40.720 --> 2:32:45.160 alluded that going forward, Lucasfilm may not pursue risky projects 2:32:45.200 --> 2:32:48.520 that break the mold. Quote you have to be bold, 2:32:48.560 --> 2:32:50.440 and you have to be willing to take risks with 2:32:50.560 --> 2:32:54.520 people and ideas. Otherwise you are just doing the same thing. 2:32:54.920 --> 2:32:55.320 Right now. 2:32:55.360 --> 2:32:58.320 We're in an era where companies are so risk averse, 2:32:58.400 --> 2:33:00.520 and I get it. I hear all the comfort stations 2:33:00.680 --> 2:33:02.920 they've got Wall Street to please, and I get it. 2:33:03.120 --> 2:33:08.360 But I also believe that that's what contributes to things disappearing. Ultimately, quote, 2:33:09.160 --> 2:33:14.080 this reliance on nostalgia and this extreme risk aversion has 2:33:14.160 --> 2:33:18.400 landed us in a pop cultural recession, and Japan is 2:33:18.520 --> 2:33:21.600 ready willing and able to fill the gap. This is 2:33:21.640 --> 2:33:24.800 not simply a matter of thing Japan, but rather this 2:33:24.840 --> 2:33:28.520 points to real differences in the production and distribution process. 2:33:29.480 --> 2:33:33.440 A lot of manga is read in Japan. As popular 2:33:33.480 --> 2:33:36.280 as it's getting here, we are nowhere close to how 2:33:36.360 --> 2:33:40.200 much manga is read in Japan. Despite their smaller population, 2:33:41.000 --> 2:33:45.120 Japan still is the primary producer and consumer of manga, 2:33:45.160 --> 2:33:48.520 with a market value of almost four point five billion 2:33:48.600 --> 2:33:52.440 dollars a year. Manga that sells really well often gets 2:33:52.440 --> 2:33:56.039 adapted into an anime, and when that anime airs in 2:33:56.120 --> 2:34:00.520 the US, the show then helps drive sale of the 2:34:00.560 --> 2:34:05.160 original manga. The top selling manga in the US usually 2:34:05.200 --> 2:34:10.199 follow whatever is the most successful currently airing anime adaptation. 2:34:10.800 --> 2:34:15.240 In recent years, that's been Chainsaw Man, Spy Family, Demon Slayer, Berserk, 2:34:15.400 --> 2:34:20.000 and ju Jitsu Kaizen. This model doesn't really exist. 2:34:19.640 --> 2:34:20.280 In the US. 2:34:20.879 --> 2:34:23.920 We don't have regularly airing twenty two episode seasons of 2:34:23.959 --> 2:34:26.920 comic book shows anymore, especially any of that appeal to 2:34:27.040 --> 2:34:30.880 a wide age range. The closest comparison is what Amazon 2:34:30.959 --> 2:34:34.359 Prime has done with mini series like The Boys and Invincible. 2:34:35.080 --> 2:34:38.840 But even the juggernaut that was the MCU did not 2:34:39.120 --> 2:34:44.680 meaningfully boost sales of the original Marvel comics. It could 2:34:44.720 --> 2:34:52.640 happen here will return after these messages we now return 2:34:52.720 --> 2:34:59.480 to it could happen here. In an interview last January, Generally, 2:34:59.720 --> 2:35:03.440 chief creative officer and president of DC Comics, talked about 2:35:03.520 --> 2:35:08.120 why manga is beating Western comics. Quote, the stories told 2:35:08.240 --> 2:35:11.840 in Japanese manga and anime are incredibly powerful. I often 2:35:11.879 --> 2:35:15.320 find myself wondering what is missing in Western comics and 2:35:15.360 --> 2:35:18.480 why aren't they able to achieve the same flavor. I 2:35:18.520 --> 2:35:22.080 think manga has an advantage over American comics, which are 2:35:22.160 --> 2:35:25.720 mostly about superheroes, and that's where the majority of sales 2:35:25.720 --> 2:35:29.879 and readers are concentrated. In Japan, it's closer to literature 2:35:30.400 --> 2:35:33.320 and anyone can read it. And it's not just hero stories. 2:35:33.840 --> 2:35:37.240 There's a much wider range of genres, like stories about 2:35:37.280 --> 2:35:40.959 cooking and soccer. You can draw stories from that. So 2:35:41.080 --> 2:35:44.760 I'm very happy that manga has been so successful because 2:35:44.800 --> 2:35:48.000 it gives me a goal to aim for. The manga 2:35:48.040 --> 2:35:51.280 market is bigger than our industry, so the question becomes, 2:35:51.640 --> 2:35:56.200 what can we learn from this? Jimily is right, but 2:35:56.879 --> 2:35:59.760 this is only getting at one part of the equation. 2:36:00.520 --> 2:36:03.560 It's not just that manga has a wide range of genres, 2:36:04.040 --> 2:36:08.680 but also a constantly growing collection of original characters and 2:36:08.800 --> 2:36:14.160 new series within familiar genres like Shonan or Boy's action comics. 2:36:14.800 --> 2:36:19.280 Japan is actually generating new culture, not just recycling the 2:36:19.320 --> 2:36:23.800 same four ips over and over again. Something like Chainsaw 2:36:23.840 --> 2:36:27.320 Man has its fair share of Japanese and American inspirations, 2:36:27.760 --> 2:36:30.440 but importantly, it's not a simple spinoff of one of 2:36:30.480 --> 2:36:35.520 those franchises, but an evolution of the genre. Most manga 2:36:35.560 --> 2:36:39.000 series have a defined beginning and end, usually written by 2:36:39.040 --> 2:36:43.120 a single author, as opposed to the perpetual continuity of 2:36:43.200 --> 2:36:46.080 most Western comics, where opening up an issue feels like 2:36:46.160 --> 2:36:48.080 jumping into the middle of a story that's been going 2:36:48.120 --> 2:36:51.200 on for years, passed on from one author to another. 2:36:51.760 --> 2:36:54.640 This certainly has its own appeal, but it can be 2:36:54.760 --> 2:36:58.520 challenging for new readers. When people first get into manga 2:36:58.640 --> 2:37:02.119 or anime and finish a serieses, there's then this massive 2:37:02.160 --> 2:37:07.480 backlog of different series, all with unique characters. A collected 2:37:07.600 --> 2:37:10.720 manga volume is also much cheaper than a DC or 2:37:11.080 --> 2:37:15.320 Marvel trade paperback, about ten dollars compared to twenty dollars 2:37:16.080 --> 2:37:18.720 part of DC comics strategy of trying to learn from 2:37:18.760 --> 2:37:21.840 manga has included the creation of a new line of 2:37:21.879 --> 2:37:27.120 paperbacks called DC Compact Comics. Regular Western comics are significantly 2:37:27.160 --> 2:37:30.480 taller and wider than manga, printed on glossy full color 2:37:30.560 --> 2:37:34.920 paper about seven by eleven inches, whereas manga has cheaper paper, 2:37:35.120 --> 2:37:38.199 usually in black and white, in a more compact package, 2:37:38.280 --> 2:37:42.480 usually five by seven and a half inches. DC Compact 2:37:42.520 --> 2:37:46.720 Comics offers quote unquote, new reader friendly stories in a 2:37:46.800 --> 2:37:50.840 manga sized package at a cheaper price point, but this 2:37:50.959 --> 2:37:54.800 is only copying the form factor of manga. In twenty 2:37:54.840 --> 2:37:58.520 twenty three, three of the top five selling DC Comics 2:37:58.600 --> 2:38:03.680 titles were old classics from the late eighties, Watchman, Sandman, 2:38:03.800 --> 2:38:07.040 and Batman Year One. These are the type of comics 2:38:07.080 --> 2:38:11.240 that DC combackt Comics is reprinting. It's all of these 2:38:11.360 --> 2:38:16.000 old comics retrofitted into manga size for ten bucks, and 2:38:16.120 --> 2:38:19.279 this is helping DC with sales, but it's still a 2:38:19.320 --> 2:38:23.600 self cannibalizing process. These things can't run forever on a 2:38:23.680 --> 2:38:27.280 nostalgia alone, and if they keep trying to, they're going 2:38:27.360 --> 2:38:30.160 to lose to whoever can make new stuff on mass 2:38:30.280 --> 2:38:34.200 which right now is Japan and South Korea, with China 2:38:34.320 --> 2:38:37.879 ride around the corner. Even when DC is promoting new stories, 2:38:38.200 --> 2:38:41.760 they're still relying on the same handful of characters, and 2:38:41.800 --> 2:38:44.439 this has forced them to do a series of confusing 2:38:44.720 --> 2:38:48.760 continuity resets to attract new readers, though this often has 2:38:48.800 --> 2:38:52.440 the backfire effect of alienating existing readers and making the 2:38:52.480 --> 2:38:56.760 whole ordeal seem too complicated to bother investing time and 2:38:56.800 --> 2:39:01.519 money into. Japan does have their own version of IP recycling, 2:39:01.720 --> 2:39:04.760 like Pokemon, Dragon Ball, and Gundam, but in a long 2:39:04.840 --> 2:39:09.600 running series like Gundam, new installments are often completely separate 2:39:09.640 --> 2:39:13.640 from one another, remixing key concepts in a new canon 2:39:13.800 --> 2:39:17.879 or premis Gundam. Wing introduced Gundam to most Americans when 2:39:17.920 --> 2:39:20.840 it aired on Tunami, and that show is entirely distinct 2:39:20.920 --> 2:39:24.280 from the original Gundam series from nineteen seventy nine. This 2:39:24.400 --> 2:39:28.360 continuity separation is continued with new installments like Iron Blooded 2:39:28.440 --> 2:39:32.440 Orphans and Witch from Mercury. Something similar is attempted in 2:39:32.520 --> 2:39:37.359 the Marvel Ultimate Universe or DC's Else Worlds, or more comparably, 2:39:37.440 --> 2:39:41.520 in something like the critically acclaimed Absolute Batman or Absolute 2:39:41.520 --> 2:39:46.600 Martian Manhunter series, but historically these concepts get roped into 2:39:47.040 --> 2:39:50.959 multi verse slop and crossover events that feed into the 2:39:51.000 --> 2:39:55.480 same nostalgia loops and franchise self cannibalization. The risk of 2:39:55.560 --> 2:40:00.000 version among US media companies not only restricts what type 2:40:00.280 --> 2:40:04.560 of stories can be told, but also who is telling them. 2:40:04.879 --> 2:40:08.160 Even the new darling of DC Comics Absolute Batman, the 2:40:08.200 --> 2:40:12.120 groundbreaking series that's redefining the character, is written by a 2:40:12.160 --> 2:40:16.280 guy who has been writing Batman since Obama's first term. 2:40:16.680 --> 2:40:19.879 At the New York Comic Con Batman Animation panel, I 2:40:19.920 --> 2:40:23.840 recognized animators and directors that I've known of since I 2:40:24.000 --> 2:40:27.000 was a little kid, because I watched the bonus features 2:40:27.040 --> 2:40:30.560 on all of my Batman DVDs. The big announcement at 2:40:30.600 --> 2:40:34.520 that panel was that they were adapting Batman Nightfall, a 2:40:34.600 --> 2:40:38.240 comic book run from the nineties, into a multi part 2:40:38.320 --> 2:40:42.560 animated film series. I also attended panels for Gundam and 2:40:42.640 --> 2:40:46.320 The Chainsaw Man Movie, and the Japanese directors on the 2:40:46.360 --> 2:40:50.800 panels were considerably younger. The Chainsawman Movie director is in 2:40:50.840 --> 2:40:55.240 his thirties. Likewise, Gundam, Iron Blooded Orphan was written and 2:40:55.320 --> 2:40:58.440 directed by people in their thirties, and we used to 2:40:58.520 --> 2:41:02.680 let young people make cool superhero stuff. Batman, the animated 2:41:02.680 --> 2:41:05.920 series was made by kids in the nineties. The problem 2:41:06.040 --> 2:41:09.920 is those kids now in their mid sixties are still 2:41:09.959 --> 2:41:13.680 the only people allowed to make Batman stuff. The manga 2:41:13.720 --> 2:41:17.440 industry has pipelines for young writers and artists to submit 2:41:17.520 --> 2:41:21.520 their work and get published because publishers are always looking 2:41:21.560 --> 2:41:25.359 for new stories, and the huge popularity of digital comics 2:41:25.360 --> 2:41:29.280 in Japan and South Korea also provides easier opportunities for 2:41:29.320 --> 2:41:31.560 young creators to get their comics in front of a 2:41:31.560 --> 2:41:35.640 lot of eyes. Keeping this balance of new stories and 2:41:35.840 --> 2:41:40.120 old ip is working out pretty well for Japanese capital 2:41:40.720 --> 2:41:43.879 on a global scale. They are much better at producing cheap, 2:41:44.040 --> 2:41:47.840 widely available branded merchandise. Pokemon and Hello Kitty are the 2:41:47.920 --> 2:41:52.400 top two highest grossing media franchises in the entire world. 2:41:53.080 --> 2:41:56.560 Most of that is merchandising revenue. Out of the top 2:41:56.640 --> 2:42:01.039 ten highest grossing media franchises, five are j Japanese. The 2:42:01.120 --> 2:42:05.039 others are Winnie the Pooh, Mickey Mouse, Star Wars, Disney Princesses, 2:42:05.160 --> 2:42:10.600 and the MCU. American audiences suddenly deciding that Goku rules 2:42:10.600 --> 2:42:15.280 and Batman drools doesn't cause this state of affairs. Rather, 2:42:15.320 --> 2:42:20.520 the opposite production and economic conditions determine which characters or 2:42:20.600 --> 2:42:25.720 franchises are seen as cool and culturally relevant. As the 2:42:25.720 --> 2:42:27.960 anime and manga industry has seen rapid growth the past 2:42:28.000 --> 2:42:32.240 few years, there's been discussions within the industry about whether 2:42:32.320 --> 2:42:36.200 anime should continue to cater to a Japanese audience or 2:42:36.480 --> 2:42:40.279 try to appeal to the growing international market. In December, 2:42:40.320 --> 2:42:43.400 the Japanese Prime Minister met with entertainment industry figures to 2:42:43.400 --> 2:42:47.400 discuss how Japan's media market could expand overseas to enhance 2:42:47.440 --> 2:42:52.680 their diplomatic power. Neon Genesis Evangelian creator Hideyakiano has argued 2:42:52.720 --> 2:42:56.240 that anime should not adapt to a growing overseas audience, 2:42:56.640 --> 2:43:00.560 but that the audience should adapt to uniquely Japanese aspects 2:43:00.600 --> 2:43:04.160 of anime. The government of Japan has recently announced that 2:43:04.160 --> 2:43:07.800 they are boosting state investment in the creation of Japanese 2:43:07.879 --> 2:43:11.760 media like manga, anime, and music, and strengthening its global 2:43:11.800 --> 2:43:15.960 distribution networks. While speaking on a government panel of experts, 2:43:16.160 --> 2:43:21.520 Hideakiano pointed to labor shortages negatively affecting production studios, but 2:43:21.680 --> 2:43:24.600 some of the new government efforts may actually do more 2:43:24.640 --> 2:43:28.120 harm than good for the international market, like AI driven 2:43:28.200 --> 2:43:33.840 translation tools and assistance in combating online manga piracy. Capital 2:43:33.920 --> 2:43:38.040 goes through periods of growth and recession, while retracting capital 2:43:38.080 --> 2:43:41.560 pushes living labor out and increasingly relies on dead labor, 2:43:42.400 --> 2:43:47.000 like DC compact comics, reprinting the past over and over again. 2:43:47.520 --> 2:43:49.760 This is the part of the cycle that Western companies 2:43:49.840 --> 2:43:52.600 have been stuck in the past few years. But the 2:43:52.680 --> 2:43:55.800 rise of anime itself grew out of the Great Recession. 2:43:56.280 --> 2:43:58.600 It was the collapse of the DVD market and the 2:43:58.720 --> 2:44:02.080 rise of internet piracy that laid the groundwork for early 2:44:02.160 --> 2:44:05.600 streaming platforms like Crunchy Role, which would play a significant 2:44:05.640 --> 2:44:08.880 part in pushing anime and manga into the mainstream come 2:44:09.000 --> 2:44:13.280 the twenty twenties. According to the Japan Times, overseas sales 2:44:13.320 --> 2:44:17.720 of Japanese content reached thirty seven point six billion dollars 2:44:17.800 --> 2:44:23.720 in twenty twenty three, surpassing Japan's semiconductor exports. And if 2:44:23.760 --> 2:44:26.760 you look at the revenue for Pokemon and Hello Kitty 2:44:27.120 --> 2:44:31.000 compared to Star Wars, The MCU and Batman, it makes 2:44:31.000 --> 2:44:33.879 sense that Japan wants to keep growing their international market. 2:44:34.720 --> 2:44:39.040 But this commodity warfare is not a matter of East 2:44:39.160 --> 2:44:43.520 versus West, but a battle between old and new capital. 2:44:44.360 --> 2:44:48.200 Old capital in Europe and America had early global dominance. 2:44:48.560 --> 2:44:52.280 Europe fell off, but then came Japan, and now South 2:44:52.400 --> 2:44:55.440 Korea is growing and is gearing up to steal Japan's 2:44:55.480 --> 2:44:59.200 lunch money. Last September, Disney announced a new partnership with 2:44:59.240 --> 2:45:02.320 the South Korean com company Webtune to create a new 2:45:02.360 --> 2:45:06.400 digital comic platform using the Marvel and Star Wars catalog. 2:45:07.040 --> 2:45:10.560 But Marvel and DC aren't gonna overcome the dominance of 2:45:10.640 --> 2:45:15.160 Japanese media by just reprinting old comics as web tunes 2:45:15.280 --> 2:45:19.080 or manga sized packages. That doesn't fix the core issue, 2:45:19.080 --> 2:45:23.160 which is caused by Western companies not investing in new labor. 2:45:23.400 --> 2:45:26.240 They are increasingly relying on the dead labor of their 2:45:26.560 --> 2:45:31.240 ubiquitous iconography. Even my beloved Lego Batman is an instance 2:45:31.280 --> 2:45:34.879 of this. The game is primarily pulling from plots of 2:45:35.040 --> 2:45:39.240 old Batman movies, with combat ripped from the Arkham games. 2:45:39.240 --> 2:45:42.320 In the marketing for the game, the different Batman skins 2:45:42.640 --> 2:45:47.840 literally have a nostalgia meter moves like DC Compact Comics 2:45:47.879 --> 2:45:51.240 is an attempt to manage the crisis while still not 2:45:51.320 --> 2:45:54.760 taking risks and investing in living labor. They don't want 2:45:54.760 --> 2:45:59.280 to invest because superhero comics aren't growing, which just further 2:45:59.360 --> 2:46:03.440 compounds the problem. Meanwhile, anime and manga are rapidly growing 2:46:03.440 --> 2:46:06.560 in the United States, which is why Japanese companies are 2:46:06.560 --> 2:46:09.200 buying almost half the show floor at New York Comic Con, 2:46:09.680 --> 2:46:12.520 whereas ten years ago they were in a tiny corner 2:46:12.600 --> 2:46:13.320 of the basement. 2:46:21.959 --> 2:46:24.520 I am wearing my women want Me, Fish Fear Me hat. 2:46:26.800 --> 2:46:30.240 This is it could happen here Executive Disorder, our weekly 2:46:30.320 --> 2:46:32.840 years cast covering what's happening in the White House, the 2:46:32.840 --> 2:46:36.120 crumbling world, and what it means for you. I'm name 2:46:36.200 --> 2:46:43.000 joined by Proper Devans, Mi Hawong, James Stout and James's hat. 2:46:43.520 --> 2:46:44.480 And James's hat. 2:46:44.680 --> 2:46:45.720 What do they say, Garrison? 2:46:46.640 --> 2:46:47.600 Oh they hurt? 2:46:47.800 --> 2:46:49.200 I think I think the audience heard. 2:46:49.320 --> 2:46:50.040 Gotta leave that one in. 2:46:50.760 --> 2:46:53.640 Women fear him, Fish want him, something along those lines. 2:46:53.720 --> 2:46:56.680 Yeah, fish want me. It's a whole thing with fish. 2:46:56.520 --> 2:46:59.480 Fish fear women, women want fish, something like that. I 2:46:59.480 --> 2:47:01.880 don't know. Del Toro made a movie about this, Yes 2:47:01.879 --> 2:47:04.320 he did, Yes he did, Garrison, what happened did nothing 2:47:04.320 --> 2:47:06.120 happen this week. I guess we can all go home. 2:47:06.200 --> 2:47:09.879 It seems like a like like an uneventful news week, right, Yeah, 2:47:10.080 --> 2:47:14.800 nothing happened with the I R S or anything. Shootings overseas? 2:47:14.840 --> 2:47:19.600 All good, Cuba fine, nothing happening in Bolivia, nothing happening 2:47:19.600 --> 2:47:21.800 with Roe Castro. 2:47:22.320 --> 2:47:24.560 Well that doesn't for it's not happening here. 2:47:25.000 --> 2:47:25.320 Thank you. 2:47:26.240 --> 2:47:28.080 We'll see you next week. 2:47:28.400 --> 2:47:31.400 Yes, it's not happening here. A podcast brought to you 2:47:31.440 --> 2:47:33.080 by Marijuana. 2:47:35.000 --> 2:47:40.160 And Sleeping Pills. Should we start with some little things 2:47:40.200 --> 2:47:41.920 and then move on to some big things. Not that 2:47:41.920 --> 2:47:44.800 that little things are unimportant, but we're covering them in 2:47:44.959 --> 2:47:48.280 less detail now and maybe more detail later. Yeah. Former 2:47:48.400 --> 2:47:51.920 Interior Secretary now Representative Ran zin Key is once again 2:47:51.959 --> 2:47:55.600 attempting to delist brown bears from the David Species Act. 2:47:55.840 --> 2:48:01.040 He hates those brown he fucking hat. They're trying to 2:48:01.040 --> 2:48:03.240 do the same thing with grizzlies too. They're a little 2:48:03.280 --> 2:48:05.800 further behind, but there's a push going right now. Like 2:48:05.800 --> 2:48:08.400 grizzly numbers have recovered a lot. They're starting to do 2:48:08.560 --> 2:48:10.520 bad stuff. We gotta start outing them. 2:48:10.720 --> 2:48:13.080 Yeah, if the grownd bears and britty bears are the same, species. 2:48:13.080 --> 2:48:15.720 They're just brown bears would be the term I would 2:48:15.800 --> 2:48:18.720 use to describe all of the Usus horribilis, I guess 2:48:18.720 --> 2:48:21.720 in North America. Yeah, like Kodiak brown bear and grizly bear. 2:48:21.959 --> 2:48:25.920 But yes, you're right. The justification that Zinki has given 2:48:25.959 --> 2:48:28.920 is that populations are getting higher, and he specifically cited 2:48:29.240 --> 2:48:31.360 a tragedy in which I hiker lost their life in 2:48:31.560 --> 2:48:36.279 Glacier National Park and another attack on two tourists in Yellowstone. Yeah, 2:48:36.360 --> 2:48:38.520 the Endangered Species Act has nothing to do with how 2:48:38.600 --> 2:48:42.240 dangerous an animal is, not as population size really play 2:48:42.240 --> 2:48:43.879 a role in these It's not that these bears attack 2:48:43.959 --> 2:48:45.959 these people because they were hungry, because the other bears 2:48:45.959 --> 2:48:49.160 that outcompeted them for food. Now, one person walked up 2:48:49.160 --> 2:48:51.800 on a sow with cubs, so that group yep, came 2:48:51.800 --> 2:48:53.720 across the sourer's cub and the other one. I think 2:48:53.720 --> 2:48:55.920 the bear was probably foraging for berries and a person 2:48:56.040 --> 2:48:58.960 surprised it in some thick timber. A lot of people 2:48:58.959 --> 2:49:01.600 thought that they would dealist grizzlies, but they didn't straight 2:49:01.600 --> 2:49:03.880 away in January and they so if I haven't, I'd 2:49:03.879 --> 2:49:05.960 write a whole two thousand words of this. When he's left. 2:49:06.000 --> 2:49:07.320 If you want to learn more about bears, a lot 2:49:07.320 --> 2:49:09.000 of a lot of bear content. We will also bring 2:49:09.040 --> 2:49:11.360 you a bear episode in the coming weeks in which 2:49:11.360 --> 2:49:13.879 I talked to Molly about bears, because it seems like 2:49:13.920 --> 2:49:17.720 you like me talking to Molly about animals. Talking of animals. 2:49:18.000 --> 2:49:22.160 Trump administration has reapproved an exciting way to kill them, 2:49:22.640 --> 2:49:26.920 the M four cyanide trap. It's been reapproved. 2:49:27.520 --> 2:49:31.600 Thank god, single issue syanide vote. That's been my one 2:49:31.600 --> 2:49:34.800 issue for your gearson. You know this I'm all about, 2:49:34.879 --> 2:49:37.000 And it's not just this. I'm just in general support 2:49:37.000 --> 2:49:41.240 of them. Anything that increases regular Americans daily access to cyanide. 2:49:41.400 --> 2:49:44.880 You know That's why I'm also against clean air regulations continue. 2:49:45.040 --> 2:49:48.039 James, I will. I've bumped into a few of these, 2:49:48.080 --> 2:49:50.400 like maybe you have two. It's not a code to 2:49:50.440 --> 2:49:51.920 get a coat, to get it's a different thing. But 2:49:52.400 --> 2:49:55.600 what this is is it's like a spring loaded, trapped 2:49:55.600 --> 2:49:57.760 a little thing poking out the ground, normally covering cloth 2:49:57.800 --> 2:50:00.680 and baited. It's triggered when some I think, bites and 2:50:00.720 --> 2:50:03.959 pulls it. So it's designed to then squirt the cyanide 2:50:04.040 --> 2:50:06.600 up into the mouth of It's normally canines, right, it's 2:50:06.600 --> 2:50:09.720 not much else. Yeah, bites and pulls them. These things 2:50:09.760 --> 2:50:12.000 have killed dozens of pets and livestock. 2:50:12.080 --> 2:50:15.400 It's a pretty fucked up kind of trap. Like it's 2:50:15.440 --> 2:50:15.920 really bad. 2:50:16.720 --> 2:50:18.800 Yeah, it's pretty bad. The old ones that used to 2:50:18.879 --> 2:50:21.160 use like a thirty eight special blank that would really 2:50:21.200 --> 2:50:27.640 fire the cyanide up. That was a massive fucking issue. Yeah, 2:50:27.680 --> 2:50:29.520 that was a coyote geta see. 2:50:29.600 --> 2:50:31.760 I just want to put those in my normal thirty 2:50:31.800 --> 2:50:36.720 eight and just concealed carrious cyanide. Everyone dies, get really close, 2:50:36.800 --> 2:50:40.960 get really close. They attack you from like upwind, you know, 2:50:41.080 --> 2:50:43.720 and then then it's just you. Yeah, once you open 2:50:43.760 --> 2:50:45.520 your mouth and get really close to me, you know. 2:50:45.840 --> 2:50:46.080 Yeah. 2:50:47.320 --> 2:50:49.720 I guess like people will maybe be familiar with these 2:50:49.760 --> 2:50:53.600 from an incident where the fourteen year old boy was 2:50:53.640 --> 2:50:56.640 injured and his dog was killed. This was back in 2:50:56.680 --> 2:50:59.720 the twenty teens. In that case, M forty four was 2:50:59.760 --> 2:51:02.520 not on the family's property, but it was less than 2:51:02.520 --> 2:51:05.760 one hundred yards from their house. Wow. And they've discontinued 2:51:05.840 --> 2:51:08.680 using them in Idaho after that. But the BLM as 2:51:08.720 --> 2:51:11.480 a whole discontinued their use only in like late twenty three, 2:51:11.520 --> 2:51:15.879 early twenty four. Trump administration hates every living creature, so 2:51:16.560 --> 2:51:19.520 it's not really surprising that these are back. Obviously, the 2:51:19.720 --> 2:51:22.879 issue here is livestock, right, Like they're protecting livestock yep 2:51:23.280 --> 2:51:26.080 from Canid's. Yeah, there are better ways of doing that. 2:51:26.360 --> 2:51:28.520 We shouldn't be fucking putting cyanide in a public lands. 2:51:28.520 --> 2:51:31.120 It's not It's sorry, this one gets me kind of annoyed. 2:51:31.280 --> 2:51:35.720 Yeah, just the general belief that anything that might interfere 2:51:35.720 --> 2:51:41.160 with a livestock animal justifies, Like widespread genocide of crucial 2:51:41.200 --> 2:51:46.000 species is really bad. Yeah, and also dominant in a 2:51:46.040 --> 2:51:47.240 lot of the American West. 2:51:47.520 --> 2:51:50.160 Yes, and like cooties are some of the smartest creatures 2:51:50.200 --> 2:51:53.359 we have, right, They've resisted all attempts to control their population. 2:51:54.280 --> 2:51:56.800 They continue to thrive. Believe in all fifty states, I 2:51:56.800 --> 2:51:59.280 think there are maybe not forty nine. I don't think 2:51:59.320 --> 2:52:02.400 there are any in Hawaii, but yeah, incredible animals. Coke to 2:52:02.480 --> 2:52:05.600 America by Dan Flores's a good book about them. In 2:52:05.640 --> 2:52:09.320 the Channel Islands Channel Lines National Park, a fire has 2:52:09.400 --> 2:52:13.760 already hit over fourteen thousand acres. It is on Santa Rita. 2:52:14.240 --> 2:52:17.240 It's threatening a grove of very rare tory pines. Tory Pines. 2:52:17.280 --> 2:52:19.879 Really we have some here in San Diego and some 2:52:20.000 --> 2:52:24.080 up there. The initial reporting suggested that the mariner himself 2:52:24.120 --> 2:52:27.160 had fired distress flares and those flares had ignited the fire. 2:52:27.480 --> 2:52:30.080 What the coast guard is now saying is he was 2:52:30.120 --> 2:52:32.720 on like a fifty two foot boat by himself. Boat 2:52:32.760 --> 2:52:35.840 people mad about me saying boat not whatever, and no, 2:52:36.080 --> 2:52:38.240 I don't care. The boat had run aground and it 2:52:38.320 --> 2:52:40.960 was rocking, and I'm guessing that rocking either short in 2:52:41.040 --> 2:52:44.760 something or cut of fuel line that caused a vessel 2:52:44.800 --> 2:52:49.720 itself to ignite, and then the vessel igniting caused fire 2:52:49.840 --> 2:52:54.680 on the island, and he then fired flares standing within 2:52:54.760 --> 2:52:57.600 a previously burned area, so the fire had burned pasted in. 2:52:57.760 --> 2:53:02.040 He fired flares. Quite why he wasn't able to signal 2:53:02.080 --> 2:53:04.320 with his radio or if he was able to signal 2:53:04.360 --> 2:53:07.400 with his radio and then the radio got burned or 2:53:07.440 --> 2:53:11.520 other means of communication right like a personal locator beacon EPERB. 2:53:11.720 --> 2:53:14.200 I don't know. All I know is what's been reported 2:53:14.200 --> 2:53:16.640 so far, but noneless. This is really tragic for one 2:53:16.680 --> 2:53:20.320 of the very few areas in California which has been 2:53:20.920 --> 2:53:26.200 less ravaged by capital. Move along to Immigration. I have 2:53:26.240 --> 2:53:31.440 seen evidence that USCIS income is plummeting, and this is 2:53:31.480 --> 2:53:34.119 because they're processing fewer applications right then, they're moving much 2:53:34.160 --> 2:53:37.600 much much more slowly with actually processing the applications to 2:53:37.600 --> 2:53:40.520 give people the right to have visas or to permanent 2:53:40.560 --> 2:53:45.360 residency cismship. The agency is normally funded by fees, and 2:53:45.440 --> 2:53:48.880 it seems that it will soon not be funded by 2:53:48.920 --> 2:53:52.039 fees anymore. So despite all these DOGE cuts and efficiency cuts, 2:53:52.720 --> 2:53:56.160 the agency is going to end up costing taxpayers more money, 2:53:56.480 --> 2:54:00.320 which is great. Today, United States marines boarded the motor 2:54:00.360 --> 2:54:04.240 tanker Celestial, which they quote suspected was on route for 2:54:04.360 --> 2:54:08.840 Iran flights from Uganda. The Democratic Republic of Congo and 2:54:08.920 --> 2:54:12.480 South Sudan are facing new arrival restrictions due to the 2:54:12.480 --> 2:54:16.080 outbreak of a BOLO in the region. With USAID funding slash, 2:54:16.120 --> 2:54:17.960 like the US would have normally led a response to 2:54:18.040 --> 2:54:21.080 something like this or at least helped fund it now won't. 2:54:21.720 --> 2:54:23.760 This means that the outbreak will be bigger and more 2:54:23.800 --> 2:54:27.119 people die. Scott Persent has said that the United States 2:54:27.120 --> 2:54:30.320 will temporarily allow quote the most vulnerable nations to access 2:54:30.360 --> 2:54:37.560 Russian oil selectively and temporarily lifting sanctions. Also, Ukraine has 2:54:37.640 --> 2:54:41.240 begun using unguided rockets on first person view drones, and 2:54:41.320 --> 2:54:45.480 this is a pretty serious development for remote control warfare. 2:54:45.720 --> 2:54:48.080 They're using them to suppress Russian air events, but they 2:54:48.120 --> 2:54:51.160 released videos of that for the first time this week. Finally, 2:54:51.160 --> 2:54:53.480 for me, it appears at a large batch of new 2:54:53.720 --> 2:54:57.800 immigration judges will be starting work immigrant judges. It's worth 2:54:57.800 --> 2:54:59.840 noting I'm not judges in the sense that we understand 2:54:59.840 --> 2:55:02.280 the for other judges in the legal system. They're more 2:55:02.320 --> 2:55:07.680 like bureaucrats like Robert. Yes, Robert's more real of a judge. 2:55:08.200 --> 2:55:11.000 That's certainly not reverend judges. Their ranks have been purged 2:55:11.040 --> 2:55:14.440 by the Trump administration rate since thirty, twenty twenty five. 2:55:14.520 --> 2:55:16.879 I know lots of them have retired, or quit or 2:55:16.920 --> 2:55:20.800 been fired. I can imagine that this new cohort might 2:55:20.840 --> 2:55:24.039 be more favorable to the Trump administration's immigration goals. 2:55:24.640 --> 2:55:27.520 So there's been in the past few days in massive 2:55:28.080 --> 2:55:32.920 intensification of month long protests in Bolivia that has escalated 2:55:32.959 --> 2:55:35.240 into a general strike. It's also turned into one of 2:55:35.280 --> 2:55:39.840 the traditional Bolivian protest tactics, which is a series of 2:55:39.879 --> 2:55:44.440 roadblocks blocking access to the capital. These are largely the 2:55:44.520 --> 2:55:48.840 result of two kind of different, kind of related fights. 2:55:48.840 --> 2:55:51.280 The first one was an attempt at agricultural reform that 2:55:51.280 --> 2:55:54.160 would have done a whole bunch of sort I guess 2:55:54.200 --> 2:55:58.040 you'd call it like nineteen ninety four style Mexican constitution, 2:55:58.800 --> 2:56:03.720 like neoliberalization, like collectively held addious land. And then now 2:56:03.760 --> 2:56:07.800 the protests have been gaining steam over dire economic situation 2:56:07.879 --> 2:56:11.039 and the liberal reforms passed by their writing president after 2:56:12.200 --> 2:56:15.640 the MAAS effectively imploded during twenty twenty four and twenty 2:56:15.640 --> 2:56:18.600 twenty five, leading to the first writing president in Bolivia 2:56:19.360 --> 2:56:22.120 since the early two thousands, and also the re emergence 2:56:22.160 --> 2:56:24.560 of Carlos Mesa, a guy I literally never thought I 2:56:24.560 --> 2:56:27.680 would hear about again, but apparently is back somehow after 2:56:27.760 --> 2:56:31.480 getting ousted by like basically effectively the exact same style 2:56:31.560 --> 2:56:33.680 of mass roadblock protests in two thousand and five. He's 2:56:33.720 --> 2:56:37.080 now also back for some reason. But yeah, these protests 2:56:37.080 --> 2:56:40.840 are probably going to continue to escalate. We've reached the 2:56:40.959 --> 2:56:45.800 miners throwing dynamite phase of Oblivian protest, which tends to 2:56:46.320 --> 2:56:52.080 precede government's collapsing. We will see how this story progresses for. 2:56:52.160 --> 2:56:56.400 Our first main story, we'll discuss the shooting at an 2:56:56.480 --> 2:56:58.200 Islamic center in San Diego. 2:56:59.160 --> 2:57:03.160 James doing us to us off. Yeah, So the shooting 2:57:03.240 --> 2:57:06.960 happened on Monday, the eighteenth of May. Three people were killed. 2:57:07.040 --> 2:57:09.600 We'll go over a little bit about them in a second. 2:57:09.640 --> 2:57:09.800 Here. 2:57:09.879 --> 2:57:11.720 It happened at the Islamic Center of San Diego, which 2:57:11.760 --> 2:57:14.720 is the largest MASK in San Diego County. People might 2:57:14.760 --> 2:57:17.080 be familiar with the Islamic Center of San Diego because 2:57:17.120 --> 2:57:20.520 of other stories about surveillance on the MASK over the years. 2:57:21.200 --> 2:57:24.920 In this case, the two shooters were Kane Clark seventeen 2:57:25.040 --> 2:57:30.160 and Caleb Bavaskar's eighteen. Shortly after the shooting took place, 2:57:30.240 --> 2:57:33.200 police searched Kane Clark's house. It took them a long 2:57:33.240 --> 2:57:35.160 time to get a warrant. Normally they can use an 2:57:35.200 --> 2:57:37.119 e warrant for these things to get one very quickly, 2:57:37.120 --> 2:57:41.440 but some reason took several hours. Officers were actually at 2:57:41.520 --> 2:57:45.320 Clark's house when the shooting began. This was because his 2:57:45.640 --> 2:57:49.400 mother had called police to report her son was missing 2:57:49.720 --> 2:57:53.680 in her car in camouflage and had stolen her weapons. 2:57:54.080 --> 2:57:58.800 She called them two hours before the shooting began. Despite 2:57:58.840 --> 2:58:02.039 that they were able to make it to the Islamic 2:58:02.040 --> 2:58:05.520 center of San Diego, kill three people, then move further 2:58:05.560 --> 2:58:09.200 down the street and fire at a landscaper who seems 2:58:09.240 --> 2:58:11.760 to have been largely uninjured or not injured in a 2:58:11.800 --> 2:58:15.320 serious way. Then they proceeded further down the street before 2:58:16.720 --> 2:58:19.120 ending their lives. I think one of them shot the 2:58:19.160 --> 2:58:22.520 other and then shot themselves. I think it's worth noting 2:58:22.560 --> 2:58:26.200 that Sandiac has driven itself into debt, spending massive amounts 2:58:26.200 --> 2:58:28.959 of money, specifically on cops and specifically on surveillance, and 2:58:29.040 --> 2:58:32.480 neither of them did anything to prevent this. The San 2:58:32.520 --> 2:58:36.960 Diego Police Department received a call two hours before the shooting, 2:58:37.640 --> 2:58:40.920 to quote Police Chief Scott Wall quote, she believed herself 2:58:41.000 --> 2:58:43.440 was suicidal, and she began to share information that several 2:58:43.480 --> 2:58:45.920 of her weapons were missing, her vehicle was missing in 2:58:45.920 --> 2:58:48.840 addition to her son. Will said. She also said her 2:58:48.840 --> 2:58:51.240 son was with a companion. They were dressed in camera 2:58:51.640 --> 2:58:53.560 that it's not consistent with what we would typically see 2:58:53.600 --> 2:58:56.920 from someone who was suicidal. They tried to use their 2:58:57.640 --> 2:59:01.840 automated license plate readers referred to a Flock cameras Flock 2:59:01.840 --> 2:59:04.560 actually doesn't provide the hardware, and San Diego. Their only 2:59:04.720 --> 2:59:07.200 lead was a single hit in Fashion Valley, which is 2:59:07.240 --> 2:59:09.840 several miles away from where the shooting took place, also 2:59:10.440 --> 2:59:15.400 further from Clark's house than the sight of the shooting was. 2:59:15.440 --> 2:59:18.560 But Vasquez comes from Tchula Vista, which is much further south. 2:59:19.320 --> 2:59:22.160 There is no way that I can see to get 2:59:22.200 --> 2:59:28.160 from Fashion Valley too ICSD without passing automated license preate readers. 2:59:28.720 --> 2:59:31.520 You can't take surface streets and avoid them. I've ridden 2:59:31.560 --> 2:59:33.160 most of that route. This was the way I used 2:59:33.160 --> 2:59:35.640 to commute on my bicycle when I was teaching. In 2:59:35.680 --> 2:59:38.280 the end, that didn't make a difference. They weren't able 2:59:38.280 --> 2:59:40.480 to get there and prevent the shooting. Not a single 2:59:40.480 --> 2:59:43.560 office discharge their firearm. Last month of San Diego officer 2:59:43.640 --> 2:59:45.720 did discharge his firearm, and a lady with a ballpoint 2:59:45.800 --> 2:59:49.240 pen missing several times in a busy street. Let's talk 2:59:49.240 --> 2:59:52.640 about the three people who were killed here. Yeah, I 2:59:52.680 --> 2:59:54.959 think they're more important than. 2:59:54.959 --> 2:59:58.879 These Well, yeah, because they undeniably they've any of those 2:59:58.920 --> 2:59:59.879 kids from getting killed. 3:00:00.160 --> 3:00:03.959 Yeah, in a way that like is genuinely laudable and heroic. 3:00:04.240 --> 3:00:04.760 Yeah. 3:00:05.000 --> 3:00:07.760 So, Amina Abdullah was a security guard of the mosque. 3:00:08.040 --> 3:00:11.279 I saw a reported he had eight children. He seems 3:00:11.320 --> 3:00:14.800 to have significantly delayed the shooter by exchanging fire with 3:00:14.920 --> 3:00:16.240 both of the shooters. 3:00:16.240 --> 3:00:18.920 And initiating the mask's lockdown protocol. 3:00:19.200 --> 3:00:22.160 Yes, so he used his radio to initiate the lockdown protocol. 3:00:22.560 --> 3:00:25.360 The shooters live stream the shooting and I've reviewed some 3:00:25.480 --> 3:00:28.520 elements of that and you can see they basically get 3:00:28.560 --> 3:00:30.800 into the entrance of the mosque and then get hold 3:00:30.879 --> 3:00:31.240 up there. 3:00:31.400 --> 3:00:34.760 Yeah, because they moved past him and he engaged them. 3:00:34.879 --> 3:00:35.240 Correct. 3:00:35.360 --> 3:00:37.200 Yeah, because they were attempting to get past him to 3:00:37.720 --> 3:00:41.520 the kids, and he engaged them, drew them back, and yeah, 3:00:41.560 --> 3:00:43.360 I mean all of this would have been so much 3:00:43.400 --> 3:00:45.320 worse if he hadn't done what he did, which cost 3:00:45.400 --> 3:00:46.040 him his life. 3:00:46.280 --> 3:00:49.480 Yes, exactly, Like, yeah, he engaged him. He continued to 3:00:49.560 --> 3:00:53.280 draw their fire lick until obviously he passed away. Other 3:00:53.360 --> 3:00:59.080 two victims Mansur Caziha known as Abu Aziz, who worked 3:00:59.080 --> 3:01:02.440 at a mosque for decad since they broke around. He 3:01:02.560 --> 3:01:05.600 was managing the store like the little gift shop snack shop, 3:01:06.200 --> 3:01:09.480 and Nadir al Wad. His wife teaches at the school 3:01:09.520 --> 3:01:12.240 and he lives right next door. He actually was at 3:01:12.280 --> 3:01:14.600 home when the shooting began and he ran toward the 3:01:14.640 --> 3:01:17.360 mosque when he heard the shooting, and it seems that 3:01:17.440 --> 3:01:19.920 both of them were in the parking lot, directing people 3:01:19.920 --> 3:01:23.039 away from the mosque and again drawing the attention of 3:01:23.040 --> 3:01:28.039 the shooter right so that unfortunately resulted in them both 3:01:28.360 --> 3:01:31.480 losing their lives. The shooters, as I said, then fled 3:01:31.480 --> 3:01:34.840 in a white BMW, shot at a landscaper, and then 3:01:35.200 --> 3:01:38.360 took their own lives. It appears that they met online. 3:01:38.520 --> 3:01:41.879 Basquez lives in Chula Vista, like a good distance away 3:01:42.120 --> 3:01:45.280 from where the shooting took place. There was a press 3:01:45.320 --> 3:01:49.920 conference shortly afterwards where the mayor was heckled. Gloria is 3:01:49.920 --> 3:01:53.280 a pretty unpopular mayor for a number of reasons, making 3:01:53.360 --> 3:01:56.760 San Diego very unlovable for poor people. He's consistently attacked 3:01:57.000 --> 3:02:00.360 and house population, I guess notably in this case because 3:02:00.400 --> 3:02:02.960 of the presence of a pro Palestinian artist. He boycotted 3:02:02.959 --> 3:02:06.000 our Pride march. But what it's worth Gloria himself is gay. 3:02:07.040 --> 3:02:09.680 City has had a really bad record of hate crimes, 3:02:10.280 --> 3:02:13.480 and I think in San Diego, because of this long 3:02:13.560 --> 3:02:16.920 history of hate crime and bigotry and anti blackness and 3:02:16.959 --> 3:02:20.240 anti Semitism and Islamophobia and the deep roots they have here. 3:02:20.320 --> 3:02:24.520 People assumed that these two young people would have come 3:02:24.560 --> 3:02:27.360 from East County, which is I think sometimes it's this 3:02:27.520 --> 3:02:30.680 myth right that like all bigotree exists kind of east 3:02:30.680 --> 3:02:33.240 of the fifteen and it's fine after that. That is 3:02:33.400 --> 3:02:36.320 very much not the case, and these two people do 3:02:36.400 --> 3:02:39.240 not come from that scene. They do not come from 3:02:39.240 --> 3:02:42.240 that world. There are groups that are white supremacist in 3:02:42.280 --> 3:02:45.679 East County, without a doubt many of them, and individuals 3:02:45.720 --> 3:02:49.119 who I mean Metzica was not living that far away, right, 3:02:49.720 --> 3:02:53.400 This is not that. Claremont, where Clark lived, is one 3:02:53.440 --> 3:02:56.400 of the most diverse neighborhoods. I have taught in high 3:02:56.400 --> 3:02:59.760 schools in Claremont. I taught in the community college there. 3:03:00.200 --> 3:03:02.520 Tons of my students over the years have been people 3:03:02.520 --> 3:03:05.039 who attended this moth school or they have children who 3:03:05.040 --> 3:03:07.640 go to the school in the preschool there. So yeah, 3:03:07.680 --> 3:03:10.039 this is like very close to home for me. I 3:03:10.040 --> 3:03:13.680 guess we should discuss a little of the shooter's kind 3:03:13.680 --> 3:03:16.400 of accelerationist worldview. 3:03:16.480 --> 3:03:21.680 I guess, yeah, yeah, the imagery and associated manifesto that 3:03:22.040 --> 3:03:24.400 leaked down line after the shooting. 3:03:25.000 --> 3:03:27.440 I mean just The shortest thing we can say before 3:03:27.480 --> 3:03:29.360 getting into it is that this is a christ Church 3:03:29.600 --> 3:03:35.200 inspired attack. Yes, motivated by anti like anti Islamic Islamophobia, 3:03:35.280 --> 3:03:38.080 right obviously, but also these shooters were very motivated by 3:03:38.440 --> 3:03:42.840 anti Semitic beliefs, by in cell beliefs, and by general 3:03:42.879 --> 3:03:44.960 fandom of mass shootings, you know. 3:03:45.840 --> 3:03:46.080 Yeah. 3:03:46.120 --> 3:03:49.800 The first inclination we had that this was LinkedIn Natz 3:03:49.840 --> 3:03:55.160 accelerationism was some pictures are released of the shooter's vehicle 3:03:55.360 --> 3:03:59.920 where a gas can had an SS sticker on it. Eventually, 3:04:00.200 --> 3:04:04.920 pictures came out of their weapons which had slogans like 3:04:05.760 --> 3:04:09.600 race war and hate speech written literally the words like 3:04:09.640 --> 3:04:14.080 hate speech just go on the weapon, Yeah, as well 3:04:14.120 --> 3:04:17.560 as wearing Nazi imagery on tactical clothing. 3:04:18.840 --> 3:04:21.400 Garrison will have more to say and we'll look at 3:04:21.400 --> 3:04:36.520 more about these shooters, but first, here's some ads and 3:04:36.640 --> 3:04:38.000 we're back, all right. 3:04:39.200 --> 3:04:43.040 To start off, I pretty much agree with extremism researcher 3:04:43.120 --> 3:04:45.640 Jared Holt, who's one of the best in the business 3:04:46.160 --> 3:04:49.280 that quote, these kids could not have been any clearer 3:04:49.360 --> 3:04:53.600 that they cooked their skulls on Neo Nazi accelerationists slop yep, 3:04:53.720 --> 3:04:57.680 their manifestos are as sloppy as they are extremist, but 3:04:57.800 --> 3:05:00.879 they do make clear they sought to be copycats. 3:05:01.160 --> 3:05:01.600 Unquote. 3:05:02.200 --> 3:05:08.480 Yeah, that's an entirely, entirely correct yep analysis of what happened. 3:05:08.760 --> 3:05:11.640 It's one of the laziest manifestos in some ways. It's 3:05:11.720 --> 3:05:15.440 very patterned off of the christ Church shooter's manifesto, which 3:05:15.520 --> 3:05:18.440 was you know, say what you will about it, a 3:05:18.480 --> 3:05:20.920 fairly original work. Like there's one of the more notable 3:05:20.920 --> 3:05:23.800 segments of this is a chunk where they're talking about 3:05:23.800 --> 3:05:26.840 their beliefs. They talk about the Freemasons, and whichever one 3:05:26.879 --> 3:05:28.400 of them was writing that portion is like I don't 3:05:28.400 --> 3:05:31.320 actually know anything about them, but I know that they're bad. Basically, 3:05:31.360 --> 3:05:33.200 like they haven't had time to get into this part 3:05:33.240 --> 3:05:37.360 of the ideology, which is like it's very it's very sloppy, 3:05:37.520 --> 3:05:42.400 it's very online. It's very much a product of terrorgram 3:05:42.560 --> 3:05:45.640 you know, like in yes, like the sloppiness is part 3:05:45.680 --> 3:05:47.959 of the humor I kind of expect for these guys. 3:05:48.000 --> 3:05:48.240 Yeah. 3:05:48.240 --> 3:05:51.640 At large parts of it were just like parentheses unfinished yep. 3:05:51.720 --> 3:05:53.400 Yeah, yeah, and I think that's part of a bit, 3:05:53.560 --> 3:05:53.720 you know. 3:05:54.280 --> 3:05:57.840 Yeah, So the manifesto was titled Sons of Terrant, named 3:05:57.840 --> 3:06:01.160 after the christ Church shooter. Yeah, about half of it 3:06:01.240 --> 3:06:04.600 was written by each of the shooters, and it states 3:06:04.600 --> 3:06:08.640 that the Terrant was their biggest inspiration. The manifesto shows 3:06:08.640 --> 3:06:13.040 a deep referential knowledge of Nazi colorationism, but in a 3:06:13.160 --> 3:06:16.279 very like regurgitated sense, right almost is if you asked 3:06:16.360 --> 3:06:19.640 chat GPT to make a new Nazi colorationist manifesto. I'm 3:06:19.640 --> 3:06:21.879 not saying they actually did that, but that's the sort 3:06:21.879 --> 3:06:23.160 of like vibe that it has. 3:06:23.320 --> 3:06:24.320 Yeah, it's very generic. 3:06:24.480 --> 3:06:25.520 Yeah, it's slopped. 3:06:25.560 --> 3:06:27.760 There's really nothing like new it all in there. It's 3:06:27.800 --> 3:06:29.760 mostly just referential. 3:06:29.480 --> 3:06:31.800 And it has that chat GPT vibe in part because 3:06:32.160 --> 3:06:35.040 they're just copying these other manifestos that were written by 3:06:35.080 --> 3:06:38.560 guys who were somewhat more original eve than them, and 3:06:38.800 --> 3:06:41.840 they came by it, I think primarily not even from 3:06:41.959 --> 3:06:45.960 initially scanning the original documents, but from seeing chopped up 3:06:46.080 --> 3:06:49.280 up pieces of them in these conversations that they're having 3:06:49.280 --> 3:06:52.120 in these like groups that they're in, and so it 3:06:52.959 --> 3:06:56.039 just kind of inculcates this slop mindset. They're like, this 3:06:56.200 --> 3:06:58.800 is kind of it's not just the manifesto that slop 3:06:59.200 --> 3:07:04.519 the way these people were radicalized. Probably was also slap Yeah. 3:07:04.680 --> 3:07:07.439 Yeah, there's this big element of like gen z irony 3:07:07.920 --> 3:07:10.360 throughout stuff like this, and you can see that on 3:07:10.720 --> 3:07:13.480 the shooter's TikTok and their Steam page, which has a 3:07:13.480 --> 3:07:18.760 whole bunch of anime Nazi Edits little TikTok dances with 3:07:18.879 --> 3:07:23.720 accelerationist imagery and like anime art. The way that these 3:07:23.760 --> 3:07:27.680 two shooters identified with Nazi excelerationism and mass killers is 3:07:28.040 --> 3:07:29.600 very close to the way a lot of people just 3:07:29.640 --> 3:07:33.959 identify with pop culture fandom. The columbine aspect is also 3:07:34.200 --> 3:07:37.160 pretty crucial here, and one of the shooters rites about 3:07:37.160 --> 3:07:40.480 that in the manifesto. On their Steam they had a 3:07:40.480 --> 3:07:45.120 anime columbine edit. Yeah, trying to understand a shooting like 3:07:45.160 --> 3:07:50.800 this as just primarily ideologically driven has its limits, right, 3:07:51.240 --> 3:07:52.879 That's certainly an aspect of it. 3:07:52.920 --> 3:07:54.000 That's very clear. 3:07:54.200 --> 3:07:58.080 Yeah, ideological imagery is front and center, but there's also 3:07:58.120 --> 3:08:00.840 this copycat aspect and like the Saint lineage of these 3:08:00.879 --> 3:08:04.440 shooters trying to make themselves infamous bysocting themselves with these 3:08:04.440 --> 3:08:07.720 other mass killers, and the in group signaling is what 3:08:07.840 --> 3:08:10.600 the fashion of ideology is resting on. 3:08:10.879 --> 3:08:13.880 Yes, the in group signaling is key because when you 3:08:14.040 --> 3:08:17.720 just say they're trying to like copy their copycasts, they're 3:08:17.720 --> 3:08:20.240 trying to copy these other killers, then that makes people 3:08:20.280 --> 3:08:23.640 think of someone who is kind of purely narcissistically so 3:08:23.840 --> 3:08:27.400 focused on the outside on how people see them as 3:08:27.400 --> 3:08:30.320 a result of their act. But at least equally important 3:08:30.480 --> 3:08:33.720 is this group of folks that they socialize with in 3:08:33.800 --> 3:08:37.080 these telegram chats and other communities that they think are 3:08:37.120 --> 3:08:39.080 cool and that they like, and they are trying That's 3:08:39.080 --> 3:08:40.720 why the manifesto is the way it is. That's why 3:08:40.720 --> 3:08:42.440 the christ Church Manifesto was the way it was. They're 3:08:42.480 --> 3:08:46.480 trying to signal to their differing communities of people online. 3:08:46.720 --> 3:08:48.480 It's like part of a fan It's is like the 3:08:48.520 --> 3:08:51.360 way that we think of pop culture. That's what this 3:08:51.600 --> 3:08:54.320 is for a small number of young people online. 3:08:54.600 --> 3:08:56.840 Yeah, and it's like it go. It's not just even 3:08:56.920 --> 3:08:58.840 Nazi stuff. Like I've seen a lot of people making 3:08:58.840 --> 3:09:00.879 a big deal about the fact that one of the 3:09:00.879 --> 3:09:05.520 shooters had a profile image of a character Ashley Graves from. 3:09:05.760 --> 3:09:06.840 The Incest video game. 3:09:07.000 --> 3:09:09.200 Yeah, a video game called The Coffin of Andy and Leiley, 3:09:09.240 --> 3:09:11.680 which is like a really fucked up incest video game 3:09:11.720 --> 3:09:14.360 and she's like she's like specifically like a really bad 3:09:14.520 --> 3:09:18.040 evil person. And it's like the comments I've seen are 3:09:18.040 --> 3:09:20.439 basically like, yeah, I'm not surprised that he would idolize 3:09:20.480 --> 3:09:22.440 someone who would do this, would like idolize a character 3:09:22.680 --> 3:09:25.840 like that. It's a bit yeah, it's like that. That's yeah, 3:09:25.879 --> 3:09:28.359 these are these are all things that are like popular 3:09:28.440 --> 3:09:30.880 in these weird little chunks of the right. Like it's 3:09:30.959 --> 3:09:34.480 it's it's an encompassing thing. It's not just these people 3:09:34.680 --> 3:09:36.959 are Nazis or these people want to be famous. And 3:09:37.000 --> 3:09:39.039 if you're just looking at the at that, then you're 3:09:39.040 --> 3:09:41.760 going to be confused by this like very sloppy seeming 3:09:41.800 --> 3:09:45.520 manifesto unless you understand it's there to make their friends laugh, you. 3:09:45.480 --> 3:09:48.680 Know, yeah, I mean like and and as ideological as 3:09:48.680 --> 3:09:52.400 this is, it's just as mimetic. Yeah, even if the 3:09:52.480 --> 3:09:55.120 overt Nazi stuff is very strong in this case, and 3:09:55.160 --> 3:09:57.880 as much as people will focus on the Nazi stuff 3:09:57.879 --> 3:10:00.240 and a lot of the reporting, we can't over look 3:10:00.280 --> 3:10:02.880 this sort of like fandom and like column buine aspect. 3:10:02.959 --> 3:10:06.240 You know, crucially, there's two shooters here that's very very 3:10:06.240 --> 3:10:09.360 column bin esque and that's something they acknowledge in the manifesto. 3:10:10.120 --> 3:10:12.960 They did live stream the shooting in a discord call, 3:10:13.640 --> 3:10:17.640 so there were people aware that this shooting was happening 3:10:17.680 --> 3:10:20.120 since before the shooting started, people to hop on to 3:10:20.280 --> 3:10:21.000 this call. 3:10:21.200 --> 3:10:24.400 Shoes, It's said in their manifesto the I'm going to 3:10:24.480 --> 3:10:26.120 wait until they had a good number of people on 3:10:26.160 --> 3:10:30.440 the call before starting so they could ensure someone recorded it, 3:10:30.440 --> 3:10:31.720 which indeed someone did. 3:10:32.400 --> 3:10:33.720 Just as a side note here, I've seen a lot 3:10:33.720 --> 3:10:35.400 of people talk about this as like a as like 3:10:35.560 --> 3:10:38.560 quote unquote seven six' four, shooting all, right seven six 3:10:38.640 --> 3:10:42.480 four refers to a specific group of or a specific 3:10:42.480 --> 3:10:46.360 online community that does child likes. Exploitation they try to 3:10:46.440 --> 3:10:50.240 extract and blackmail children into providing child sexual best material 3:10:50.440 --> 3:10:54.960 and sometimes convincing children to also do acts of. Violence 3:10:55.840 --> 3:10:59.080 there is not an explicit seven six four connection THAT 3:10:59.120 --> 3:11:02.160 i am aware of at this. Point sometimes these communities 3:11:02.200 --> 3:11:04.959 do overlapped interseex SO i wouldn't be surprised if there 3:11:05.120 --> 3:11:07.760 is something seven six foot related that comes out about 3:11:07.760 --> 3:11:11.240 one of these shooters. Eventually, sure but THIS i think 3:11:11.440 --> 3:11:15.000 that framing that that understanding is slightly. MISTAKEN i think 3:11:15.680 --> 3:11:18.800 people jump to that very. Often there was obviously the 3:11:18.840 --> 3:11:22.320 sort of like group element of this. Shooting they're streaming 3:11:22.400 --> 3:11:25.039 it in a discord, call BUT i THINK sem six 3:11:25.080 --> 3:11:28.720 floor does actually refer to a specific. Group it's not 3:11:28.920 --> 3:11:32.680 just you, know neo natzic acceleraationist shooters in. General i've 3:11:32.680 --> 3:11:37.680 seen some people question why a mosque was chosen as 3:11:37.680 --> 3:11:41.599 the target if a lot of the manifesto is, antisemitic 3:11:41.760 --> 3:11:46.039 that's kind of like the crux of their. Ideology they 3:11:46.040 --> 3:11:50.120 did The Islamic center likely because they wanted to specifically Copy, Terrant. 3:11:50.240 --> 3:11:52.480 Right that's even down to the clothes that they're. Wearing 3:11:52.520 --> 3:11:54.760 the military fatigues that they're wearing are very similar to 3:11:54.760 --> 3:11:57.800 What terran wore in the, manifestos even around the same 3:11:57.879 --> 3:12:01.080 length of As terrence. Manifesto, Yeah AND i think a 3:12:01.200 --> 3:12:02.720 vital part of this and when you when you're looking 3:12:02.760 --> 3:12:05.080 at this sort of which seems like things that are 3:12:05.120 --> 3:12:08.400 incongruent between what they're writing and what they're, doing it's 3:12:08.440 --> 3:12:10.880 that this is sort of the most advanced stage of 3:12:10.920 --> 3:12:13.320 the production of politics to, aesthetics and it's reached a 3:12:13.400 --> 3:12:17.320 point where like the aesthetic itself is like the medically. Alive, 3:12:17.520 --> 3:12:20.200 yes in a way that's you, know in a way 3:12:20.200 --> 3:12:22.600 that operates independently of like what the people who made 3:12:22.640 --> 3:12:25.320 the ideology were trying to. Do and now the aesthetic 3:12:25.400 --> 3:12:27.320 itself is getting people to just do the, things and 3:12:27.320 --> 3:12:31.039 so they're doing it for the, esthetic which is what 3:12:31.080 --> 3:12:34.960 the politics has been turned. Into and you, know even 3:12:35.080 --> 3:12:37.160 like the selection of video games they have on This steam, 3:12:37.160 --> 3:12:41.040 profile he's designed with this in. Mind the incest, game one, 3:12:41.080 --> 3:12:43.760 example parts Of iron four is also included on The 3:12:43.760 --> 3:12:44.199 steam Pro. 3:12:44.280 --> 3:12:45.360 God of course it fucking. 3:12:45.480 --> 3:12:46.560 Is but here's the. 3:12:46.600 --> 3:12:47.240 Thing here's the. 3:12:47.240 --> 3:12:51.119 Thing the shooter unlocked no. Achievements they weren't even. 3:12:51.160 --> 3:12:54.280 Playing it's about being cool to your. 3:12:54.320 --> 3:12:56.000 Buds they weren't even playing the. 3:12:56.120 --> 3:12:58.800 Game but he but he wanted to include the game 3:12:58.879 --> 3:13:01.680 on the profile because it references or has been a 3:13:01.680 --> 3:13:04.240 part of other Neo nazi accelerationists in the. 3:13:04.240 --> 3:13:04.520 Past. 3:13:04.600 --> 3:13:07.200 Yeah, similarly a lot of like The enemy visual novels 3:13:07.200 --> 3:13:09.520 included on the profile seem to be. 3:13:09.720 --> 3:13:13.840 Unplayed, yeah it doesn't happen. Enough this gets looked at 3:13:14.000 --> 3:13:17.800 because of how horrifying the actions are as something separate 3:13:17.920 --> 3:13:22.240 fundamentally from like all the other shit that like dumb, 3:13:22.240 --> 3:13:24.640 shit young people do to be cool and it really 3:13:24.640 --> 3:13:26.039 shouldn't entirely. 3:13:26.000 --> 3:13:29.039 Or just being, suicidal, right or just being extremely mentally 3:13:29.080 --> 3:13:31.879 like unwell and like, underregulated socially. 3:13:31.879 --> 3:13:37.040 DISINTEGRATED i think the desperation to fit in anywhere is 3:13:37.080 --> 3:13:39.440 tied with that sort of thing, too, Right like the 3:13:39.480 --> 3:13:42.080 fact that you would lie about the stuff you're interested 3:13:42.120 --> 3:13:44.200 with in order to put on this image that is 3:13:44.280 --> 3:13:47.320 more fitting for what you think this community wants to 3:13:47.360 --> 3:13:48.200 see from. You you. 3:13:48.240 --> 3:13:50.960 Know part of the tragedy here is that these, people 3:13:51.080 --> 3:13:55.000 as kids found community in these acceleration of spaces that 3:13:55.040 --> 3:13:57.520 became the primary way they socialize in a very similar 3:13:57.640 --> 3:14:01.360 vein as a lot of people socialized online About Star 3:14:01.480 --> 3:14:05.640 wars or whatever anime is popular on, TikTok or like 3:14:06.280 --> 3:14:10.520 those other fandom spaces that are not designed around going 3:14:10.560 --> 3:14:12.480 into a place of worship or a school and killing 3:14:12.520 --> 3:14:12.760 tons of. 3:14:12.800 --> 3:14:17.480 People, YEAH i GUESS i should just Sayreal, briefly THE 3:14:17.640 --> 3:14:25.560 fbi removed thirty firearms From Cane clark's family. Home it 3:14:25.800 --> 3:14:28.640 seems still the firearms they. Use for whatever it's, worth 3:14:28.720 --> 3:14:30.920 it just make a huge, DIFFERENCE i, guess other than 3:14:30.959 --> 3:14:33.960 to say that like these were all complying With california. 3:14:34.040 --> 3:14:37.280 Law california has very strict gun. Laws it's very hard 3:14:37.320 --> 3:14:40.240 in this country to stop people getting the means to 3:14:40.320 --> 3:14:40.840 kill lots of. 3:14:40.840 --> 3:14:44.640 PEOPLE i mean that, said it's entirely possible that that 3:14:45.080 --> 3:14:47.280 is why there weren't more people. Killed you, know we 3:14:47.320 --> 3:14:50.280 really it's impossible to say that the gun that they 3:14:50.280 --> 3:14:54.440 were using isn't wildly different from an ar in this 3:14:54.640 --> 3:14:58.440 kind of. Situation but you, know there's limitations on the 3:14:58.480 --> 3:15:01.520 amount of m and a mag or whatever then may 3:15:01.600 --> 3:15:03.320 have had some. IMPACT i don't really HAVE i don't 3:15:03.360 --> 3:15:06.320 have enough granular detail about all of, that and it's 3:15:06.320 --> 3:15:08.879 also kind of impossible to, say but, yeah these were 3:15:08.879 --> 3:15:09.760 All kali legal. 3:15:09.800 --> 3:15:13.160 Guns, yeah you see the kid IF i would not 3:15:13.200 --> 3:15:15.360 suggest watching the, VIDEO i don't think anyone needs to 3:15:15.360 --> 3:15:15.600 watch the. 3:15:15.680 --> 3:15:18.560 Video it's not good for. You this is no reason 3:15:18.600 --> 3:15:21.039 to watch it or read the. Manifesto there's nothing in. 3:15:21.080 --> 3:15:25.080 There, yeah none of this will make your, grief you, 3:15:25.080 --> 3:15:27.959 know more more? Real ya is your solidarity more? Completely 3:15:28.000 --> 3:15:29.440 you don't need to. Do you see the kid fuck 3:15:29.520 --> 3:15:31.920 up the window for a while in a, video which is. 3:15:31.959 --> 3:15:34.520 GOOD i wish someone had fucking shot him when he 3:15:34.600 --> 3:15:36.840 was doing. That one of the last THINGS i want to. 3:15:36.879 --> 3:15:41.200 Add there has been an attempt by some popular right 3:15:41.240 --> 3:15:45.039 wing figures to try to turn this into another trans. 3:15:45.040 --> 3:15:48.279 Shooting, yeah Specifically Elon. 3:15:48.360 --> 3:15:51.240 Musk, Yes Elon musk has boosted. 3:15:51.240 --> 3:15:55.359 Claims, yeah completely unfounded, false just actually outright. 3:15:55.080 --> 3:15:57.680 False absolute lies admitted by the. 3:15:57.760 --> 3:16:02.520 Opage he's just lying false iss that either one or 3:16:02.600 --> 3:16:05.760 both of the shooters were a. Transgender this seems to 3:16:05.800 --> 3:16:09.039 be primarily using a picture of one of them that 3:16:09.120 --> 3:16:12.880 has long hair as the sort of quote unquote evidence 3:16:13.480 --> 3:16:13.840 they are not. 3:16:13.920 --> 3:16:15.120 Trans neither of them are. 3:16:15.160 --> 3:16:19.039 Trans they write about HATING lgbtq people in the. 3:16:19.120 --> 3:16:22.400 Manifesto they're not. Trans it's not a trends. Shooting, no 3:16:22.480 --> 3:16:24.320 they hating trans people in. Particular. 3:16:24.600 --> 3:16:27.959 Yeah, yeah but you know they're just like these people 3:16:28.080 --> 3:16:30.440 Like Elon musk and all threight when people doing this 3:16:30.560 --> 3:16:34.280 like they're just overtly doing The Julius striker Like Dear, 3:16:34.360 --> 3:16:37.560 stormer Like jewish crime, shit like that's just all this this. 3:16:37.680 --> 3:16:39.600 Point it's, yeah. 3:16:39.520 --> 3:16:42.840 They don't think it's true anymore than like we. Do 3:16:42.920 --> 3:16:45.680 they just know that you've got in this period of 3:16:45.720 --> 3:16:48.840 time right after something like this, happens if you flood 3:16:48.879 --> 3:16:50.920 the zone with shit like, that some number of people 3:16:51.040 --> 3:16:53.960 will never get. Corrected that's all this. Is, yeah reality 3:16:54.000 --> 3:16:56.400 is very malleable in those first few. Hours. 3:16:56.800 --> 3:16:59.600 Yeah, YEAH i think some of them will also think it's. Funny. 3:16:59.680 --> 3:17:01.760 YEAH i think in the same way it signals that 3:17:01.800 --> 3:17:03.720 you're calls to your friends and in the same way 3:17:03.720 --> 3:17:06.640 that these people did, that like it's. Disgusting, wow it's 3:17:06.680 --> 3:17:07.280 all the same. 3:17:07.320 --> 3:17:09.560 Thing, yeah we're doing the meme. 3:17:09.680 --> 3:17:13.400 Genocide it's arguably genocide has always been a. 3:17:13.440 --> 3:17:13.680 Meme. 3:17:14.560 --> 3:17:18.480 Yeah the whole thing has been really hard on The 3:17:18.480 --> 3:17:20.320 San diego community where we have a big fire At 3:17:20.320 --> 3:17:24.240 EASTER i ll aposto as well getting under. Control we 3:17:24.360 --> 3:17:27.840 will share a fundraiser for the families of the three 3:17:27.840 --> 3:17:31.080 people who unfortunately lost their. Lives it's already upper half 3:17:31.080 --> 3:17:34.800 a million, dollars which is nice to. See but, YEAH 3:17:34.879 --> 3:17:37.440 i know that that mask specifically has spent so much 3:17:37.480 --> 3:17:41.039 time on. SECURITY i know they've applied for, grants LIKE i, 3:17:41.080 --> 3:17:43.080 know they've they've done everything they. Can they have, cameras 3:17:43.080 --> 3:17:46.440 they had armed. Security They it's really sad that this 3:17:46.520 --> 3:17:49.680 community felt that this might happen and it. Happened you 3:17:49.720 --> 3:17:52.400 know that they felt that they weren't, safe And i've 3:17:52.400 --> 3:17:57.560 filed some public records requests that will take weeks months 3:17:57.600 --> 3:17:59.800 to come. Back but if there is more reporting on 3:17:59.840 --> 3:18:03.360 this to be, done we will do, it especially like 3:18:03.400 --> 3:18:05.640 this is WHERE i, live this is my, community So 3:18:05.920 --> 3:18:08.120 i'm going to try my best to find out as 3:18:08.200 --> 3:18:11.680 much AS i. Can but, yeah it's a tragedy right. 3:18:11.720 --> 3:18:14.959 Now before we go on and ad, BREAK i have 3:18:15.360 --> 3:18:20.080 one more story. Here On, tuesday there was a primary 3:18:20.120 --> 3:18:25.520 election In. Kentucky Incumbent Libertarian Republican Thomas massey lost the 3:18:25.560 --> 3:18:28.480 election by ten points to A pak And trump backed, 3:18:28.600 --> 3:18:33.760 Challenger Ed. Gallrain massey broke With trump over the release 3:18:33.840 --> 3:18:37.360 of The epstein, files though Unlike margree taymc, green he 3:18:37.400 --> 3:18:40.000 did not step down but continued to serve In, congress 3:18:40.080 --> 3:18:42.760 opposing The One Big Beautiful, bill The war On iran 3:18:43.080 --> 3:18:47.400 and aid To. Israel trump's Selected, gallarin a Former navy, 3:18:47.440 --> 3:18:51.480 seal to run Against, massey and this election became the 3:18:51.520 --> 3:18:56.879 most expensive primary In house race. History Great apak and 3:18:56.959 --> 3:18:59.800 other Pro israel lobbying groups spent over nine million dollars 3:18:59.800 --> 3:19:03.280 to unseen Massive, jesus and overall ad spending in this 3:19:03.320 --> 3:19:07.439 primary reached over thirty three million Dollars. 3:19:08.280 --> 3:19:10.280 Jesus's wide receiver one. 3:19:10.400 --> 3:19:13.600 Money, yeah it's, wild it's this is this is crazy 3:19:13.800 --> 3:19:14.760 for A kentucky house. 3:19:14.800 --> 3:19:16.920 Scene that's. Good that's gonna go to A republican either. 3:19:16.959 --> 3:19:19.879 Way it's it's just A trump's ego. 3:19:19.959 --> 3:19:22.920 Thing it's like A Trump israel. Thing, yeah it's it's 3:19:22.959 --> 3:19:23.840 it's pretty. 3:19:23.879 --> 3:19:26.600 Wild, yeah, Yeah israel, too. Obviously, yeah of course. 3:19:26.640 --> 3:19:29.519 The pros are a. Lot you funded a, significant significant 3:19:29.520 --> 3:19:30.280 part of the ad. 3:19:30.320 --> 3:19:30.879 Spending it's. 3:19:30.959 --> 3:19:34.480 Crazy another interesting, factor packs on both sides of this 3:19:34.560 --> 3:19:39.800 race USED ai deep fake ads depicting the opposing. CANDIDATE 3:19:40.400 --> 3:19:44.920 i want to briefly show some of, these not the whole, 3:19:44.959 --> 3:19:47.960 ones just just very short clips, together like the sense 3:19:48.000 --> 3:19:49.480 of of what of what the deal is? 3:19:49.520 --> 3:19:51.720 Here incredible impending sense of. 3:19:51.879 --> 3:19:53.800 Dread, YEAH i love. 3:19:53.840 --> 3:19:57.920 It These trump, traders they can't stand our president and 3:19:58.040 --> 3:20:00.600 can't help but let it. Show like O eddy gal 3:20:00.720 --> 3:20:04.800 Rynd Oo geddy left The Republican party After trump won 3:20:04.840 --> 3:20:08.240 THE gop nomination in twenty. Sixteen take a look for 3:20:08.320 --> 3:20:12.720 yourself and when Did wogedy change his registration back to 3:20:12.800 --> 3:20:17.240 THE Gop After Joe biden was sworn, In trump was 3:20:17.280 --> 3:20:20.480 in the foxhole and okty Gal rynd tucked his tail 3:20:20.600 --> 3:20:23.360 and Ran kentucky fourth the back is responsible for the 3:20:23.400 --> 3:20:23.880 content of this. 3:20:23.959 --> 3:20:25.160 Ad oh my, god it's. 3:20:25.160 --> 3:20:26.200 Done Donald trump. 3:20:26.440 --> 3:20:37.000 Side this is the craziest part of the ad where 3:20:37.040 --> 3:20:41.080 a deep Fake Donald trump is in the trenches with a. 3:20:41.160 --> 3:20:44.080 Rifle it just looks like a. Photoshop it looks it 3:20:44.120 --> 3:20:45.560 looks like a Shitty moan photo. 3:20:45.680 --> 3:20:47.080 Shot, yeah Like World. 3:20:46.840 --> 3:20:48.879 War one or. Two it could kind of be. 3:20:48.840 --> 3:20:50.800 EITHER i think of GIVING D, day, right like you 3:20:50.879 --> 3:20:54.039 got the tank, barriers like he's got The grande the tank. 3:20:54.160 --> 3:20:55.720 Barriers but that looks that is that a? 3:20:55.720 --> 3:20:58.400 Garage, yeah because he fighted it twice without running the. 3:20:58.440 --> 3:21:01.279 BANK i don't think they know who we're. 3:21:02.520 --> 3:21:03.480 Going to this and they have. 3:21:03.600 --> 3:21:05.920 Already his camo doesn't look anyway what? 3:21:05.959 --> 3:21:06.240 Happened? 3:21:06.440 --> 3:21:10.520 True so Woke Eddie gueran right, away As trump was 3:21:10.640 --> 3:21:11.720 in the, trenches. 3:21:11.440 --> 3:21:14.960 The foxhole, garrison the. Foxhole my apologies under. 3:21:15.000 --> 3:21:17.840 Fire this is the Pro massy, ad, Right so the 3:21:17.879 --> 3:21:22.080 promasciads are trying to frame The, trump The trump backed 3:21:22.200 --> 3:21:25.000 candidate as woke Woke Eddie. 3:21:25.000 --> 3:21:27.240 Gallay, YEAH i love, IT i love. 3:21:27.280 --> 3:21:28.840 It who Abandoned? 3:21:28.959 --> 3:21:34.000 Trump, meanwhile the Anti massy ads looked like. 3:21:34.040 --> 3:21:38.439 This Thomas mercy caught in a thropple In washington. 3:21:39.120 --> 3:21:44.920 With the squad on the what, no what is happening? 3:21:45.480 --> 3:21:48.320 Mess he voted just the squad against Finishing trump's. Wall 3:21:48.920 --> 3:21:51.199 he voted with them against hiring new border. 3:21:51.240 --> 3:21:53.680 Agents, jesus this is as. 3:21:53.879 --> 3:21:57.600 Adultery it's a complete and total betrayal Of President trump 3:21:57.680 --> 3:22:02.040 And kentucky. Conservatives On may, nineteen Fire Thomas Massy Mega 3:22:02.080 --> 3:22:03.879 kentucky is responsible for the content of this. 3:22:03.920 --> 3:22:06.680 ADVERTISING i guess the upside of this is the term 3:22:06.800 --> 3:22:12.560 thrupples really gonna. Mainstream. Huh they trust people in just 3:22:12.680 --> 3:22:17.560 like small Town kentucky didn't know what this Was Thomas. 3:22:17.560 --> 3:22:20.760 Massey is it a quote unquote throufle with the squad 3:22:21.360 --> 3:22:24.640 showing him holding hands the squad is more than showing 3:22:24.680 --> 3:22:30.280 him holding hands WITH aoc and other deep faked interactions 3:22:30.400 --> 3:22:32.080 BETWEEN aoc and Elan. 3:22:32.160 --> 3:22:34.520 Omar yeah, great cool. 3:22:34.560 --> 3:22:38.160 Stuff yeah. Wow the cable news generation really going to 3:22:38.240 --> 3:22:39.879 be having that minds melted by that. 3:22:40.000 --> 3:22:43.760 Shit, lastly an ongoing story we followed ON edi the 3:22:43.760 --> 3:22:46.160 past few months is Whether trump will endorse in The 3:22:46.200 --> 3:22:50.480 Republican senate runoff In. Texas early reports indicated That trump 3:22:50.520 --> 3:22:54.400 would back Incumbent Senator John cornyn over mega hardliner And 3:22:54.440 --> 3:22:58.680 texas Ag Ken, paxton But trump seemed irritated that his 3:22:58.760 --> 3:23:02.280 intentions were, leaked and following, That paxton started to make 3:23:02.440 --> 3:23:05.000 moves in a bid to win the president's. Favor In, 3:23:05.080 --> 3:23:07.640 March paxton promised to drop out of the race if 3:23:07.680 --> 3:23:11.360 The Republican senate tailed the filibuster to pass the voter 3:23:11.480 --> 3:23:15.320 restriction bill dubbed The Save America. Act at the, time 3:23:15.400 --> 3:23:18.800 the bill Was trump's top, priority and this gambit By 3:23:18.879 --> 3:23:22.039 paxton seemed to, work as later that month he was 3:23:22.080 --> 3:23:25.080 seen meeting With trump at Mar A, lago and then 3:23:25.120 --> 3:23:29.640 this Past, Tuesday trump Endorsed paxton Via truth On truth social. 3:23:29.760 --> 3:23:33.120 Quote he is a winner in all. Caps ken is 3:23:33.120 --> 3:23:36.640 a strong supporter of terminating the filibuster in all caps 3:23:37.160 --> 3:23:41.320 and very, importantly The Save America. Act John cornyn is 3:23:41.360 --> 3:23:44.080 a good man AND i worked well with, him but 3:23:44.200 --> 3:23:46.960 he was not supportive of me when times were tough. 3:23:47.400 --> 3:23:51.720 Unquote this endorsement seemed to Catch Senate republicans off, guard 3:23:52.240 --> 3:23:54.680 some of whom now worry the seat may be in. 3:23:54.760 --> 3:23:59.320 Jeopardy Republican Majority Leader John thune is still Backing Senator. 3:23:59.400 --> 3:24:01.480 Cornyn what's going on that? 3:24:01.560 --> 3:24:22.360 Break, yeah. 3:24:13.920 --> 3:24:15.840 That was a lovely. Song or we're about to hate a. 3:24:15.879 --> 3:24:18.200 Song let's say song, stated we're about to hear the. 3:24:18.200 --> 3:24:19.600 Song i'm about to hate a. Song, WELL i am 3:24:19.640 --> 3:24:20.360 excited about. 3:24:20.360 --> 3:24:26.960 That that must mean it's time to learn about. Tariffs 3:24:27.800 --> 3:24:30.720 rocky Jazz, bob rocky jazz. 3:24:30.840 --> 3:24:33.080 Bo sorry, lack. 3:24:35.280 --> 3:24:38.240 Rocky jazz bo rocky Jazz. 3:24:38.320 --> 3:24:44.039 Bob by, god there's tariff news. Again so let's run 3:24:44.080 --> 3:24:48.160 through a few pieces of tariff. News we have now technically, 3:24:48.200 --> 3:24:52.080 speaking started the terriff refund of. Process people are starting 3:24:52.120 --> 3:24:54.840 to get their money. Back this is going to be 3:24:54.879 --> 3:24:59.560 a catastrophe that unfolds over the course of, genuinely who 3:24:59.560 --> 3:25:02.200 knows how. Long my guess IS i don't think this 3:25:02.280 --> 3:25:06.040 is done by next. Year we've also seen a series 3:25:06.120 --> 3:25:09.760 of negotiations from The trump administration with a whole bunch 3:25:09.920 --> 3:25:14.840 of different. Countries THE us had a summit With china 3:25:14.920 --> 3:25:18.240 Where trump is ution in ping met and appear to 3:25:18.280 --> 3:25:21.160 be trying to wind down the trade. War there is 3:25:21.959 --> 3:25:25.720 an attempt to reduce tariffs on goods that aren't under 3:25:25.720 --> 3:25:28.840 the sort Of section three oh one national security. Tariffs 3:25:28.840 --> 3:25:32.280 there's also been some attempt by The chinese government to 3:25:32.480 --> 3:25:35.800 get THE us to back off of using the national 3:25:35.800 --> 3:25:39.080 security powers for more. Tariffs the deals on this one 3:25:39.120 --> 3:25:42.600 are still kind of. Inconclusive we're going to see more 3:25:42.640 --> 3:25:46.600 as this. Unfolds there's a very good quote THAT i 3:25:46.600 --> 3:25:51.039 think is interesting FROM Us Trade. Rep Jamison guer where in, 3:25:51.080 --> 3:25:53.520 writers well this is reported in, writers was On Fox 3:25:53.560 --> 3:25:56.720 Business news where he, said, quote it's not really a 3:25:56.760 --> 3:25:59.400 situation where we go and Get china to change the 3:25:59.400 --> 3:26:02.040 way they, govern the way they manage their. Economy career 3:26:02.080 --> 3:26:04.440 Told Fox businesses last week this was about three weeks. 3:26:04.440 --> 3:26:07.760 Ago now that's all baked into their. System BUT i 3:26:07.800 --> 3:26:11.160 think there is a world where we find out where 3:26:11.200 --> 3:26:14.080 we can optimize trade Between china and THE us to 3:26:14.160 --> 3:26:19.480 achieve more. Balance so this is effectively a pure back 3:26:19.520 --> 3:26:23.480 off of everything they've been saying about like all of 3:26:23.520 --> 3:26:27.000 the all of The chinese economy inherently having rigged trade 3:26:27.080 --> 3:26:29.400 because of government, subsidies et, cetera et. 3:26:29.440 --> 3:26:30.480 Cetera on, it it. 3:26:30.600 --> 3:26:34.119 Seems like they're kind of trying to wind this, DOWN 3:26:34.280 --> 3:26:37.879 i think largely because they have with this war In, 3:26:37.920 --> 3:26:40.400 iran they have dropped a second nuke on the, economy 3:26:40.400 --> 3:26:42.240 and they want to make sure that the two bombs 3:26:42.240 --> 3:26:44.240 they've dropped on the on their own feet aren't going 3:26:44.240 --> 3:26:47.440 off at the same. Time so in that vein we've 3:26:47.480 --> 3:26:53.640 also seen THE eu has finally gotten together to approve. 3:26:54.720 --> 3:26:58.080 Ish it's a little, complicated a provisional deal with the 3:26:58.120 --> 3:27:02.200 administration that the are also still a little murky. On 3:27:02.560 --> 3:27:05.080 but the short version seems to be THE us imposes 3:27:05.120 --> 3:27:08.960 of fifteen percent tariff On european, goods while once again Per, 3:27:09.000 --> 3:27:12.360 reuters THE eu would quote remove import duties ON us 3:27:12.440 --> 3:27:16.840 industrial goods and grant preferential access TO us farm and sea. 3:27:16.879 --> 3:27:20.039 Produce we still don't know exactly what that's going to look, 3:27:20.160 --> 3:27:24.320 like but those are the preliminary details after these negotiations 3:27:24.320 --> 3:27:27.320 were thrown into chaos When trump was trying to Invade. Greenland, 3:27:28.160 --> 3:27:31.200 yeah we'll know more about what these deals look like 3:27:31.240 --> 3:27:33.959 in the weeks to. Come, now the other piece of 3:27:34.040 --> 3:27:37.240 news we should talk about here is that On, friday 3:27:37.360 --> 3:27:40.080 on The friday that you're presumably listening to this On, 3:27:40.600 --> 3:27:42.959 Heaven walsh is going to be sworn in as the 3:27:43.000 --> 3:27:47.119 new chairman of The Federal. Reserve this has come as 3:27:47.320 --> 3:27:50.040 part of a deal where in order to getsh out of, 3:27:50.120 --> 3:27:54.400 committee The Justice department dropped their investigation into Former Federal 3:27:54.440 --> 3:27:58.400 Reserve Chairman Jerome. Powell it is worth, noting, though That 3:27:58.560 --> 3:28:03.000 Jerome Powell Rum powell has obviously stepped down as the 3:28:03.280 --> 3:28:07.240 chairman of The Federal. Reserve, coward that's, ALL i got. 3:28:07.240 --> 3:28:13.400 Nothing my brain is too cooked On Federal reserve to 3:28:13.440 --> 3:28:18.600 be able to react. Properly but Coma Jerome powell is 3:28:18.640 --> 3:28:22.199 not stepping down from The board Of, governors which he's still. 3:28:22.200 --> 3:28:23.880 ON i think he's still also on The Open Market, 3:28:23.920 --> 3:28:29.199 Committee So worsh has his work cut out for. Him 3:28:29.879 --> 3:28:32.680 we should. Mention so who Is Kevin. Walsh we've talked 3:28:32.720 --> 3:28:35.840 about this a little bit. Before he, IS i would, 3:28:35.920 --> 3:28:40.920 say more stable and more hinged than the previous Candidate 3:28:40.959 --> 3:28:44.920 trump has been talking. About he has experience in The Federal. Reserve, 3:28:44.959 --> 3:28:48.520 however he's also very very close to a lot of 3:28:48.560 --> 3:28:52.200 the tech, right particularly feel and end. Reason that is 3:28:52.240 --> 3:28:55.600 absolutely a cause for alarm that these sort of tech 3:28:55.640 --> 3:28:59.560 fascists have gotten their guy as the head of The Federal. Reserve, 3:29:00.640 --> 3:29:06.560 however he has effectively inherited a, Grenade so how are 3:29:06.560 --> 3:29:08.920 things going to be going for him when he when 3:29:08.920 --> 3:29:11.840 he takes office in about two. Days as we're recording 3:29:11.840 --> 3:29:14.280 for this not. Great the yield on the thirty year 3:29:14.320 --> 3:29:17.520 teen notte is that five point four, percent which is 3:29:17.560 --> 3:29:20.480 the highest it's been since two thousand and. Seven for 3:29:20.520 --> 3:29:24.039 people unaware of what high teennote yield, means it means 3:29:24.280 --> 3:29:28.720 things bad for THE us, economy and investors are spooked 3:29:28.800 --> 3:29:32.920 and kind of. Panicking this seems to mostly be investors 3:29:33.480 --> 3:29:36.400 finally starting to price in weight hold on this war 3:29:36.440 --> 3:29:40.039 In iran is not simply going to, end so he 3:29:40.200 --> 3:29:43.880 is inheriting a situation that is going to be a 3:29:44.040 --> 3:29:47.640 mess because these high interest rates means that there's going 3:29:47.680 --> 3:29:50.160 to have to be sort of fed interest rate hikes 3:29:50.160 --> 3:29:52.920 in order to curve. Inflation, However trump wants exactly the 3:29:52.920 --> 3:29:56.560 opposite of, that So larsh is immediately caught between a 3:29:56.640 --> 3:29:58.320 rock and a hard. Place the rest of The Federal 3:29:58.400 --> 3:30:01.040 Reserve board does not want to slash int rates right, 3:30:01.080 --> 3:30:05.600 now And Jerome, powell who hates, him is still on 3:30:05.640 --> 3:30:08.720 the board and is still attempting to manage a kind 3:30:08.720 --> 3:30:14.360 of rear flank resistance To trump's control over THE. Fed 3:30:14.480 --> 3:30:18.040 so who, knows there's going to be some pretty dramatic 3:30:18.080 --> 3:30:22.680 clashes my guess fairly soon between some combination Of trump 3:30:22.879 --> 3:30:25.560 wash and the rest of The Federal Reserve. Board and 3:30:25.720 --> 3:30:30.320 we will keep you. Informed nice speaking of money and, 3:30:31.000 --> 3:30:35.840 taxes Giving trump allies control of massive pools of, money. 3:30:36.280 --> 3:30:39.440 And that and that of our tax, money thank. 3:30:39.520 --> 3:30:43.000 You On, Monday President trump dropped his ten billion dollar 3:30:43.080 --> 3:30:46.880 lawsuit against THE irs after he negotiated With trump administration 3:30:47.280 --> 3:30:51.199 man to create a one point eight billion dollar fund 3:30:51.280 --> 3:30:54.400 to compensate victims of political quote unquote. 3:30:54.440 --> 3:30:55.240 Weaponization. 3:30:56.040 --> 3:31:01.400 Yeah the Lawsuit trump levied Against trump's government alleged the 3:31:01.440 --> 3:31:04.440 i R s failed to prevent a contractor from leaking 3:31:04.560 --> 3:31:08.040 his tax returns in twenty, nineteen When trump was also. 3:31:08.160 --> 3:31:12.280 President part of the. Settlement this is, wild, RIGHT i 3:31:12.640 --> 3:31:14.520 have to think this is this is. Wild you know the, 3:31:14.600 --> 3:31:16.320 headline it's Very. 3:31:16.720 --> 3:31:22.119 Trump trump wins lawsuits Against trump. Government, yeah Against trump's. 3:31:22.120 --> 3:31:25.240 Cires, yeah you, know technically didn't win the. Lawsuit it was. 3:31:25.360 --> 3:31:29.160 Settled and part of the settlement is this one point 3:31:29.200 --> 3:31:31.240 eight billion dollar Fund. 3:31:31.680 --> 3:31:38.839 Garrison one point seven. Seven, yes, technically come, ON yeh 3:31:40.600 --> 3:31:42.840 was rounding up that's, right, baby this. 3:31:42.920 --> 3:31:46.360 World, yeah in this, Case, garrison he's unacceptable to round 3:31:46.440 --> 3:31:50.560 up because they had something they were going for, there 3:31:50.320 --> 3:31:52.879 they were, cooking they. 3:31:52.959 --> 3:31:55.080 Found this fund is for people who believe they are 3:31:55.160 --> 3:31:59.400 victims of political oppianization by THE doj acting A. 3:31:59.480 --> 3:32:00.440 G tuddland. 3:32:00.520 --> 3:32:03.920 Quote it is this department's intention to make right the 3:32:03.959 --> 3:32:07.920 wrongs that were previously done while ensuring this never happens. 3:32:07.959 --> 3:32:08.240 Again. 3:32:08.840 --> 3:32:15.040 Quote blanche himself will appoint a five member committee to 3:32:15.120 --> 3:32:19.959 evaluate weaponization claims submitted by the. Public so this is 3:32:19.959 --> 3:32:22.680 basically a scheme to Usurp congress's power of the purse 3:32:23.080 --> 3:32:25.440 by literally weaponizing the judicial. 3:32:25.480 --> 3:32:28.959 Process but this story actually gets. Crazier oh. 3:32:29.040 --> 3:32:33.480 Yeah another part Of trump's settlement Against trump is that 3:32:33.560 --> 3:32:37.800 THE doj has pledged That trump and his two eldest 3:32:37.800 --> 3:32:41.960 sons are to be forever exempt from tax audits by 3:32:42.000 --> 3:32:50.400 the irma quote The United states releases waives acquits and 3:32:50.600 --> 3:32:55.080 forever discharges each of the plaintiffs from and is hereby 3:32:55.440 --> 3:33:00.200 forever barred and precluded from prosecuting or pursuing any and 3:33:00.280 --> 3:33:01.120 all claims. 3:33:01.320 --> 3:33:02.800 Unquote Incredible. 3:33:03.080 --> 3:33:06.880 NOW A dj spookesperson later Told The Financial times that 3:33:06.920 --> 3:33:11.800 this exemption only applies to existing. Audits but that's not 3:33:11.879 --> 3:33:14.119 really what the document, says and that's not What trump 3:33:14.120 --> 3:33:17.240 administration is saying outside of this one statement from A dj. 3:33:17.320 --> 3:33:21.200 Spokesperson so who Knows Julius. 3:33:20.680 --> 3:33:23.400 Caesar didn't do this? Shit like what are we doing? 3:33:23.480 --> 3:33:28.200 Here, yeah, yeah it's it's. Again the standard for a 3:33:28.280 --> 3:33:30.840 long time previously was that like The president AND vp 3:33:31.040 --> 3:33:34.440 were audited like, yearly because it's just like what you, 3:33:34.480 --> 3:33:38.400 do like in a, democracy just because you it should 3:33:38.400 --> 3:33:40.520 be built into the system that you don't trust that 3:33:40.560 --> 3:33:44.440 the president isn't. Corrupt that's a bad. Idea it's speaking of. 3:33:44.520 --> 3:33:49.440 Corruption the whole idea of settling a lawsuit yourself. 3:33:49.760 --> 3:33:53.679 Yourself it's, yeah using everyone's. 3:33:53.760 --> 3:33:56.680 MONEY i, WOULD i would sue myself a. Lot i'm 3:33:56.680 --> 3:34:00.600 gonna be, Honest, Garrison i'm gonna be. HONEST i don't 3:34:00.879 --> 3:34:04.280 like what THE i didn't know he could do. 3:34:04.360 --> 3:34:06.080 THAT i just. 3:34:09.920 --> 3:34:12.480 This has somehow managed to turn me into why they 3:34:12.520 --> 3:34:16.360 Made Jimmy carter give up this peanut farm? Loob like, yes, no. 3:34:16.400 --> 3:34:20.720 That was literally WHAT i was looking Like Bill, clinton 3:34:21.360 --> 3:34:24.400 not the most exactly, anaogous but Like Bill clinton used 3:34:24.400 --> 3:34:27.280 to cross the street to use a different phone to 3:34:27.400 --> 3:34:30.560 avoid transgressing the hatch At, yeah and now we're here. 3:34:30.959 --> 3:34:31.519 Observed. 3:34:31.600 --> 3:34:35.360 Yeah, Yeah i'm not A Bill clinton, fan but, yeah come. 3:34:35.440 --> 3:34:38.959 On but just just thinking about the difference in severity 3:34:39.200 --> 3:34:43.320 between How Monica, gate which is what it was literally 3:34:43.400 --> 3:34:46.680 called often at the, time was treated and how the 3:34:46.720 --> 3:34:49.400 president creating a one point seven seven six billion dollar 3:34:49.480 --> 3:34:52.279 slush fund for people who tried to do an insurrection 3:34:52.560 --> 3:34:54.000 is being treated like it's it's. 3:34:54.000 --> 3:34:57.080 Insane, yeah, Right and that's that's the other thing we should. Mentioned, 3:34:57.120 --> 3:34:58.920 right this is going to be mostly used by people 3:34:58.920 --> 3:35:01.480 who were prosecuted for their involvement in The january sixth. 3:35:01.560 --> 3:35:04.120 Insurrection these funds are not going to be granted to 3:35:04.200 --> 3:35:07.720 like left wing activists who are being prosecuted By trump's 3:35:07.760 --> 3:35:09.760 doj for a political targeted like. 3:35:09.879 --> 3:35:13.280 Come there might be some lawsuits around, THAT i, mean we'll. 3:35:13.280 --> 3:35:16.400 See Senator Ron wyden Of oregon has said That democrats 3:35:16.400 --> 3:35:18.520 are going to fight every element of the self dealing. 3:35:18.560 --> 3:35:21.360 Measure not only is this another heinously corrept act by 3:35:21.360 --> 3:35:23.760 the most corrupt administration in, history it's clearly a violation 3:35:23.800 --> 3:35:26.400 of the law that prohibits interference by executive branch officials 3:35:26.400 --> 3:35:30.120 AND irs. Audits so we'll see if any of that is. 3:35:30.160 --> 3:35:32.800 Successful good. Luck i'm not against, tryan but it's not 3:35:32.840 --> 3:35:33.360 my odds on. 3:35:33.440 --> 3:35:33.600 Bet. 3:35:33.760 --> 3:35:37.879 Yeah, yeah not to demean the. Effort i'm just trying 3:35:37.920 --> 3:35:38.760 to be reasonable. 3:35:38.800 --> 3:35:40.119 Here, yeah we can. 3:35:40.200 --> 3:35:43.960 Dream back in twenty, nineteen WHEN i was in film, 3:35:44.080 --> 3:35:47.240 SCHOOL i was interviewing a federal. 3:35:47.000 --> 3:35:49.000 Judge wow humblebrag high for. 3:35:49.040 --> 3:35:53.920 Some like documentary, project and she talked about the rices 3:35:53.959 --> 3:35:56.240 in twenty, nineteen So trump. One she talked about how 3:35:56.280 --> 3:35:58.879 she thinks that it's really going to be the judicial 3:35:58.920 --> 3:36:02.200 system that saves us from. Authoritarianism, this this is this 3:36:02.240 --> 3:36:03.959 is our this is the last line of defense we 3:36:04.000 --> 3:36:05.080 have against a. 3:36:05.160 --> 3:36:10.760 Dictator judge things their job, good like like to be. 3:36:10.840 --> 3:36:13.200 FAIR i knew a lot of journalists who are like the, 3:36:13.280 --> 3:36:18.160 press free press that back. 3:36:18.000 --> 3:36:20.680 In, Reality like The Supreme court just like repealed The 3:36:20.760 --> 3:36:22.640 Voting Rights, Act and. 3:36:22.720 --> 3:36:26.560 That's What i'm that's What i'm getting. To On, friday 3:36:26.600 --> 3:36:29.840 THE Us Supreme court Rejected democrats' emergency appeal in The 3:36:29.920 --> 3:36:33.760 virginia redistricting, case leaving the decision by The States Room 3:36:33.800 --> 3:36:36.720 court to block the new voter Approved house map in. 3:36:36.840 --> 3:36:40.400 Place THE Us Supreme court offered no explanation in their 3:36:40.480 --> 3:36:43.640 brief one sentence unsigned memo. 3:36:43.879 --> 3:36:46.360 That that that might be the shortest shadow dock, yet 3:36:46.400 --> 3:36:49.680 which is insulting because they were already like one. Paragraph. 3:36:50.160 --> 3:36:53.640 Yeah The Virginia's Room court ruled the new map violated 3:36:53.680 --> 3:36:58.440 the state constitution via procedural error during the referendum. PROCESS 3:36:59.760 --> 3:37:02.680 I i often think about the CONVERSATION i had with 3:37:02.720 --> 3:37:05.080 this with this federal judge in twenty. Nineteen as all 3:37:05.080 --> 3:37:07.960 this stuff's been, Happening i'm, LIKE i would really love 3:37:08.000 --> 3:37:09.879 to talk with her. AGAIN i should maybe try to 3:37:09.879 --> 3:37:13.959 track her down and the like ask because, yeah oh, boy. 3:37:14.560 --> 3:37:18.200 Yeah how do you conceive of yourself, now like your 3:37:18.280 --> 3:37:18.760 role in this? 3:37:19.000 --> 3:37:21.880 Yep how do you function ideologically as a person whose 3:37:21.959 --> 3:37:23.680 job it is to do the? Law when The Supreme 3:37:23.720 --> 3:37:26.800 court has said That article, one section four of The, 3:37:26.840 --> 3:37:29.800 constitution when it says That congress can pass laws or regulate, 3:37:29.800 --> 3:37:33.480 elections does not actually apply To congress passing a law 3:37:33.480 --> 3:37:35.720 to regulate. Elections like what do you do after that 3:37:35.760 --> 3:37:37.120 in order in order to make it so that black 3:37:37.120 --> 3:37:37.920 people don't get a? Vote? 3:37:37.959 --> 3:37:39.440 Again, like where do you put your idea on the 3:37:39.480 --> 3:37:40.560 tea now it's all. 3:37:40.760 --> 3:37:44.160 Fake. Yeah, God i'm extremely angry about. 3:37:44.200 --> 3:37:49.000 THIS i mean, yeah around that time was when the 3:37:49.160 --> 3:37:52.720 partisan jerrymandering was like explicitly allowed by The Supreme. COURT 3:37:52.760 --> 3:37:54.480 i mean you, can, yeah we can track a lot 3:37:54.520 --> 3:37:57.320 of a lot of the stuff to that ruling as. Well, 3:37:57.440 --> 3:37:59.920 right and this WAS i think that that was a 3:38:00.040 --> 3:38:02.440 round twenty, nineteen between twenty eighteen twenty twenty. 3:38:02.440 --> 3:38:06.280 One shall we move on to the war which is 3:38:06.320 --> 3:38:11.680 not a war In? IRAN i believe we. Shall, Okay, 3:38:11.800 --> 3:38:15.000 WELL i will start at the start of this. Week just, 3:38:15.120 --> 3:38:16.880 GONE i guess where the president has said a deadline 3:38:16.920 --> 3:38:19.640 for strikes about which we found out through a series 3:38:19.879 --> 3:38:24.160 OF ai generated, images and then back down from it 3:38:24.560 --> 3:38:27.640 at the urging avalids in the region as talks. Continue, 3:38:28.240 --> 3:38:32.680 Meanwhile iran has not stopped using drones and missiles to 3:38:33.040 --> 3:38:37.600 Attack kurdish group's Largely Iranian kurdish groups in Southern kurdistan 3:38:38.040 --> 3:38:42.840 indigenously produced. Missiles, yes we're going to talk about indigenous production. 3:38:43.360 --> 3:38:47.320 Later, yes, okay, Okay art AND i see what you're. 3:38:47.360 --> 3:38:52.160 Doing trump On monday said he would hold off the 3:38:52.240 --> 3:38:57.480 quote unquote scheduled. Attacks, Meanwhile iran has opened AN x 3:38:57.520 --> 3:39:00.920 account using x dot, com the everything website for The 3:39:00.959 --> 3:39:05.840 Persian Gulf Straight, authority a direct contravention of my desire 3:39:05.879 --> 3:39:07.320 to not make this Segment twitter. 3:39:07.400 --> 3:39:10.280 Review this is the worst episode we've done in a. 3:39:10.320 --> 3:39:11.080 While it. 3:39:11.160 --> 3:39:14.200 Is it's like this is, yeah you, know you. 3:39:14.160 --> 3:39:16.879 Know twenty eight days later when it opens and all 3:39:16.959 --> 3:39:19.760 this bad shit is just like clicking. Through, yeah that's 3:39:19.840 --> 3:39:20.879 every week, now. 3:39:21.040 --> 3:39:23.160 Every news sentence one of us, SAYS i just my 3:39:23.480 --> 3:39:25.840 headache grows a, little a little, bit a little bit bit. 3:39:26.080 --> 3:39:28.440 Like longing for the halcyon. Days we thought that twenty 3:39:28.480 --> 3:39:29.440 twenty was the worst year. 3:39:29.480 --> 3:39:33.840 Ever people are nostalgia for twenty. Twenty now folks are 3:39:33.840 --> 3:39:35.760 getting hopeful about the hauntavirus out. 3:39:35.760 --> 3:39:37.600 There oh please Please. 3:39:37.640 --> 3:39:42.240 God so, yes it RUNS x account for THE, pgs 3:39:42.400 --> 3:39:46.160 A Persian Golf straight. Authority it's claiming that it has 3:39:46.240 --> 3:39:51.600 established a controlled maritime zone in the straight hashtag strait 3:39:51.640 --> 3:39:55.560 Of horn moos hashtag horn moves undercourse. Straight if you 3:39:55.560 --> 3:39:57.360 want to get in on that, conversation. 3:39:57.320 --> 3:40:00.080 Why would you hashtag it that this isn't A you are. 3:40:00.200 --> 3:40:03.480 The Islamic republic Of iran and what are you? Doing 3:40:03.640 --> 3:40:09.520 it's creating a hashtag Because donald trumpet has bombed you 3:40:09.560 --> 3:40:13.440 for three months without declaring. War yet, like what a, 3:40:13.520 --> 3:40:18.480 World what a time to be. Alive, MEANWHILE cbs see 3:40:18.520 --> 3:40:24.360 again every fucking. Sentence, man only the, only the, best Oh. 3:40:24.440 --> 3:40:28.200 Man every TIME i see a full, STOP i want 3:40:28.320 --> 3:40:31.600 to just go and walk into the. Ocean IF i, 3:40:31.680 --> 3:40:34.240 DID i might eventually float to the straight upform, moves 3:40:34.240 --> 3:40:37.720 WHERE cbs is reporting that THE us has identified ten naval. 3:40:37.840 --> 3:40:43.760 MINDS i spoke to my mind guy that this is 3:40:43.760 --> 3:40:44.359 the LIFE. 3:40:44.160 --> 3:40:46.480 I, lead is mine guide. 3:40:48.720 --> 3:40:52.840 Mine, Guy it's going to be my New you. 3:40:52.800 --> 3:40:55.800 Could d m the old iatola On. Twitter it's possible 3:40:55.879 --> 3:40:58.040 you can get the new. One there's no way to. 3:40:58.040 --> 3:40:59.720 Know although the old one never got back to me 3:40:59.720 --> 3:41:02.119 about whether or not he liked, anime so that remains 3:41:02.120 --> 3:41:02.760 an unanswered. 3:41:02.840 --> 3:41:05.680 Question he would post About american. Sports it's very. Funny 3:41:06.800 --> 3:41:11.279 these are The maham three and seven, minds so it's seven. 3:41:11.400 --> 3:41:15.480 Minds here are the particularly advanced. Ones they apparently can 3:41:15.560 --> 3:41:19.200 absorb some, sonar making them very hard to, detect and 3:41:19.280 --> 3:41:22.520 they can go off when you're searching for. Them neither 3:41:22.560 --> 3:41:24.920 of these are contact, mines, Right The muhamma, three's for, 3:41:24.959 --> 3:41:27.360 example they're midwater, floating whereas sevens are going to be 3:41:27.400 --> 3:41:30.000 on the. Bottom they can go off using a number 3:41:30.000 --> 3:41:32.400 of different, sensors like The muhama threes could go off 3:41:32.640 --> 3:41:35.600 using magnetic or acoustic sensors when the ship is, nearby 3:41:36.200 --> 3:41:38.560 so you don't even have to directly bump, them which is. 3:41:38.640 --> 3:41:42.600 Great if they have found, ten one assumes that there 3:41:42.600 --> 3:41:46.680 are actually tons more than. That we are now waiting 3:41:46.760 --> 3:41:48.280 until something bumps into. 3:41:48.360 --> 3:41:48.560 One. 3:41:48.720 --> 3:41:51.440 Great for a long, time there was Like schrodinger's minds 3:41:51.560 --> 3:41:54.600 right that we now the minds are, there that the 3:41:54.680 --> 3:41:55.080 mines are. 3:41:55.080 --> 3:41:56.440 Real so it's. 3:41:56.640 --> 3:41:59.160 Cat the cat is out of the. Box, No, No, 3:41:59.280 --> 3:42:01.920 JAMES i. AM i seem to recall several weeks, Ago 3:42:02.040 --> 3:42:05.720 Donald trump Said iran's offensive capability has been completely. Degraded that's. 3:42:05.760 --> 3:42:08.960 Correct, yeah no, navy no. Boats so they must have 3:42:09.040 --> 3:42:11.760 got the very quickly in the initial hours after the strikes, 3:42:11.800 --> 3:42:13.400 BEGAN i, guess and it just took this long to. 3:42:13.440 --> 3:42:17.800 Find, well sometimes sea turtles lay particularly explosive, eggs But 3:42:18.120 --> 3:42:21.039 Donald trump can't be expected to have anticipated that. 3:42:21.120 --> 3:42:24.160 Well and we've already denied the suicide dolphin, program so 3:42:24.160 --> 3:42:25.039 we couldn't stop the sea. 3:42:25.080 --> 3:42:28.360 Turtles, yeah well these are not suicide, dolphins, right what 3:42:28.400 --> 3:42:30.080 if these dolphins intended to live another? 3:42:30.160 --> 3:42:31.320 Day homicide dog? 3:42:31.360 --> 3:42:36.840 Exactly, yeah, yeah that big band, name or like the 3:42:36.920 --> 3:42:39.439 dolphin from Sea. Quest reach out to me if homicide 3:42:39.440 --> 3:42:40.959 dolphins is the name of your, band. 3:42:40.840 --> 3:42:42.440 Reach out to me if you Like. SeaQuest. 3:42:42.560 --> 3:42:47.120 Yeah like a lot of any military, technology these are entirely, copied, 3:42:47.320 --> 3:42:51.320 RIGHT i think as A, Norwegian swedish minds And french. 3:42:51.480 --> 3:42:54.360 Minds but That's iran does this a, lot, Right it 3:42:54.440 --> 3:42:56.199 sort of plagiarizes other people's military. 3:42:56.240 --> 3:42:58.920 Technology, yeah like a smart person. 3:42:59.040 --> 3:42:59.280 Does. 3:42:59.480 --> 3:43:03.360 Yeah, yeah it's like THE us, did like everyone else 3:43:03.480 --> 3:43:06.400 if they see someone else make a good. Weapon that's 3:43:06.440 --> 3:43:07.000 how war. 3:43:07.080 --> 3:43:09.160 Works, yeah and The iranians do it in a more 3:43:09.200 --> 3:43:11.520 direct way than. MOST i will, say they didn't even. 3:43:11.520 --> 3:43:13.320 Pretend but why if the world has cut you off 3:43:13.320 --> 3:43:14.720 with sanctus, anyway what did you go to? 3:43:14.800 --> 3:43:15.360 Lose you? 3:43:15.400 --> 3:43:21.200 Going this isn't like Fucking android copying ship from iPhone's 3:43:21.280 --> 3:43:23.440 code or. Whatever this is just how war. 3:43:23.520 --> 3:43:25.200 Works, yeah what are they going to? 3:43:25.240 --> 3:43:25.640 Do bomb? 3:43:25.640 --> 3:43:25.840 Them? 3:43:26.160 --> 3:43:29.039 Yeah we Never we didn't sue THE ussr for plagiarism 3:43:29.120 --> 3:43:31.680 when they got a new, like that's not how this. 3:43:31.879 --> 3:43:35.320 Worse, Yeah i'm sure some Like french guys are mad about. It, 3:43:35.800 --> 3:43:38.640 yeah they going to. Change let's talk about reporting FROM 3:43:38.800 --> 3:43:43.120 nyt today That israel intended to install Mood off And 3:43:43.160 --> 3:43:46.920 Dinner jad as the new leader Of iran and the 3:43:47.040 --> 3:43:49.760 way that they intended to do, this of, course AND 3:43:49.840 --> 3:43:53.119 i think this is particularly telling of THE Idf they 3:43:53.200 --> 3:43:53.600 bombed his. 3:43:53.720 --> 3:43:56.560 House, yeah that's, all that's the only thing they know 3:43:56.600 --> 3:43:56.959 how to, Do. 3:43:57.160 --> 3:44:00.320 James, yeah it's when you only have a ham the 3:44:00.320 --> 3:44:00.800 world is a. 3:44:00.920 --> 3:44:03.320 Nail WHEN i read that and made me. Think this 3:44:03.360 --> 3:44:06.320 great comedian now, Dead Bill hicks had a bit during 3:44:06.360 --> 3:44:09.240 The Gulf, war The First Gulf war where he was 3:44:09.360 --> 3:44:12.879 like talking about the amazing guided missiles THE us has 3:44:13.000 --> 3:44:14.960 that we could like fire down, chimneys and he was, 3:44:14.959 --> 3:44:18.039 like couldn't we theoretically use that technology to shoot food 3:44:18.200 --> 3:44:19.400 into the mouths of hungry? 3:44:19.400 --> 3:44:27.720 PEOPLE i THOUGHT i read that. Story unfortunately they Injured 3:44:27.720 --> 3:44:34.720 almadida jadh, Again, yeah because it's It's, rael, right and, like, 3:44:34.840 --> 3:44:36.760 yeah nothing they love to do more than the killer 3:44:36.840 --> 3:44:40.879 range or A muslim person and so, yeah spectactically they 3:44:40.920 --> 3:44:43.560 attempted to Install Apmadida jad a guy who wanted to 3:44:43.560 --> 3:44:46.920 Wipe israel off the map in the power In, iran. 3:44:47.280 --> 3:44:50.320 This guy was the. Devil if you, remember if you 3:44:50.400 --> 3:44:53.040 were if you watched the news when he was first 3:44:53.080 --> 3:44:56.080 president Of, iran this guy was the. Devil so a 3:44:56.160 --> 3:44:57.320 massive pusher. 3:44:57.000 --> 3:45:01.720 Of the nuclear. Program, yeah like, yeah, Fascinating. 3:45:01.360 --> 3:45:06.120 Probably the world's most famous. Hardliner maybe he's just maybe 3:45:06.120 --> 3:45:08.000 he's the only guy they knew, about. 3:45:07.680 --> 3:45:11.720 Like, Right like do they have some incredible compliment they. 3:45:12.280 --> 3:45:13.920 WELL i mean this is part of israel strategy. 3:45:13.959 --> 3:45:16.440 Though they want aggression to increase so they have justification 3:45:16.520 --> 3:45:18.959 to take over the region and like crack down like even, 3:45:18.959 --> 3:45:21.039 Harder like this is that was part of their strategy 3:45:21.040 --> 3:45:21.560 With hamas for. 3:45:21.680 --> 3:45:24.680 Years yeah, sure but they already have. Justification they're already 3:45:24.760 --> 3:45:26.640 killing a bunch of people In, iran like. 3:45:26.720 --> 3:45:30.200 They can try to rope in even more, countries broken more. 3:45:30.200 --> 3:45:31.560 People like this is like a scaling. 3:45:31.600 --> 3:45:35.280 Issue they are the accelerationists of the of the internationals 3:45:35.520 --> 3:45:36.360 really Genuine. 3:45:36.440 --> 3:45:36.600 Yeah. 3:45:36.600 --> 3:45:39.959 No we also found out That Israel loki Invaded, iraq 3:45:40.080 --> 3:45:43.640 setting up two bases in The iraqi desert and shooting 3:45:43.800 --> 3:45:46.640 At iraqi troops and civilians who came near. 3:45:46.720 --> 3:45:50.800 Them coy, Guys Israel loki Invaded. 3:45:50.840 --> 3:45:54.280 Iraq, yeah, yeah that's. Me, YEAH i am here to 3:45:54.360 --> 3:45:57.880 maintain a youth audience by using the language that they. Understand, 3:45:58.120 --> 3:46:02.039 yeah that's. Good let's talk about The. Senate On, tuesday 3:46:02.080 --> 3:46:05.080 The senate advanced to resolution quote who directed The removal 3:46:05.120 --> 3:46:07.520 of The United States Armed forces from hostilities with or 3:46:07.520 --> 3:46:10.680 against The Islamic Republica iran that have not been authorized By. 3:46:10.720 --> 3:46:14.520 Congress this is more of a rebuke than anything with 3:46:14.600 --> 3:46:17.080 a reasonable chance of actually stopping the, war but it's still. 3:46:17.080 --> 3:46:21.560 Significant significant Because Bill cassidy crossed party lines after losing 3:46:21.640 --> 3:46:25.280 his primary, election in Which trump campaigned against. Him only 3:46:25.320 --> 3:46:28.480 after losing, though yeah, right, yeah after this guy had 3:46:28.520 --> 3:46:32.000 destroyed your whole, life you suddenly grow a. Backbone that makes. 3:46:32.040 --> 3:46:34.600 Sense he was joined By Susan conins Of, Main Lisa 3:46:34.640 --> 3:46:38.240 markowski Of, alaska And Ran paul Of. Kentucky, while of, 3:46:38.360 --> 3:46:41.240 course do you guys want to guess which festering tird 3:46:41.280 --> 3:46:43.840 Of democrat senator across the other Way. 3:46:44.000 --> 3:46:46.160 Fedterman, yes, yeah of. 3:46:46.120 --> 3:46:49.800 Course when you said, FESTERING i thought of, Man, okay. 3:46:49.680 --> 3:46:54.600 Okay well we can, YEAH i mean, yeah, yeah, yeah 3:46:55.000 --> 3:46:59.480 calling him Fester man in the. Chat good. Stuff John 3:46:59.520 --> 3:47:03.640 cornyn Of, Texas Tommy tubaville Of, alabama And Tom tillis 3:47:03.640 --> 3:47:05.960 Of North carolina didn't, vote which allowed the vote to. 3:47:06.000 --> 3:47:09.240 Pass in, practice even if the resolution passed The, HOUSE 3:47:09.360 --> 3:47:11.600 i guess The president could veto it if you wanted. 3:47:11.680 --> 3:47:16.320 To it's, interesting, though they've been gradually peeling Off. Republicans 3:47:16.360 --> 3:47:20.000 Right makowski switched last Week cassidy this. WEEK i don't 3:47:20.080 --> 3:47:23.000 think the non voting was much about, this as they 3:47:23.040 --> 3:47:25.600 just didn't vote at all that. Day But, cassidy we 3:47:25.600 --> 3:47:27.920 can see. Why Right colin To makowski are the once 3:47:28.000 --> 3:47:31.120 and they talk about like swinging a Lot rampaul is 3:47:31.160 --> 3:47:33.959 plowing his own lonely furrow as he always. Has but 3:47:34.040 --> 3:47:38.680 it's interesting that they've gradually peeled these people away from 3:47:38.680 --> 3:47:43.320 The Republican. Party, meanwhile In, nigeria The United states has 3:47:43.320 --> 3:47:46.720 carried out a series of strikes Against islamic state. Targets 3:47:46.920 --> 3:47:50.240 they Killed abubaka Al, manuki someone who went by several other. 3:47:50.320 --> 3:47:52.640 Names you'll see a lot of other names In. Impressors 3:47:53.120 --> 3:47:57.360 he definitely was solidifying a power within The West africa. 3:47:57.360 --> 3:48:01.720 Provinces islamic state and definitely becoming, relevant especially you, know 3:48:01.800 --> 3:48:04.360 post a territorial caliphate In iraq And. 3:48:04.400 --> 3:48:07.039 Syria, yeah this is the stuff that the most of 3:48:07.080 --> 3:48:10.240 that Counter Terrorism trategy document was writing. 3:48:10.280 --> 3:48:14.920 About, yeah and they have been pursuing This internegeria for some. 3:48:15.000 --> 3:48:17.640 TIME i wrote Last christmas about them winding up for 3:48:17.720 --> 3:48:21.560 grown strikes right into the station troops. There trump's statement 3:48:21.720 --> 3:48:25.000 was always somewhat. Incomprehensible trump said he had been hiding In. 3:48:25.040 --> 3:48:28.280 Africa that man had obviously lived In africa his entire, 3:48:28.320 --> 3:48:31.120 life never. Left trump called him second in command. Globally 3:48:31.200 --> 3:48:34.080 that thing not outside the realm of, possibility but it's 3:48:34.080 --> 3:48:36.920 also not lear. Right there's not like a direct like 3:48:37.760 --> 3:48:40.040 pyramid chart that we can go. To it was a 3:48:40.120 --> 3:48:43.520 JOINT Us nigerian. Operation we saw overhead. Videos looks to 3:48:43.560 --> 3:48:45.280 me like it's from a. Drone it seems like there 3:48:45.320 --> 3:48:48.760 was a helicopteric, component potentially a ground component as. Well THE, 3:48:48.879 --> 3:48:51.640 us of course has had special and conventional forces In 3:48:51.680 --> 3:48:56.920 africa for, decades but this is still a remarkable strike for. 3:48:56.959 --> 3:49:00.480 Them it will be maybe the first to. Many it 3:49:00.480 --> 3:49:03.400 seems like they were doing several almost every day this. 3:49:03.480 --> 3:49:05.800 Week judging by The Saint Colm Media where's page WHICH 3:49:05.880 --> 3:49:10.240 i will link in the, sources, well go ahead and 3:49:10.240 --> 3:49:13.160 email Us gone, Yep Cool zone tips at protone dot. 3:49:13.200 --> 3:49:16.960 Me sure we reported the. 3:49:16.960 --> 3:49:20.680 News arguably put a turns girl on your. 3:49:20.680 --> 3:49:22.200 Couch Rip Stephen? 3:49:22.200 --> 3:49:30.320 Colbert is he? Dead we reported the. News, Hey we'll 3:49:30.320 --> 3:49:33.440 be Back monday with more episodes every week from now 3:49:33.520 --> 3:49:34.440 until the heat death of The. 3:49:34.520 --> 3:49:37.880 Universe It Could Happen here is a production of Cool Zone. 3:49:37.920 --> 3:49:40.960 Media for more podcasts from Cool Zone, media visit our 3:49:40.960 --> 3:49:43.960 website Cool zonemedia dot, com or check us out on 3:49:44.000 --> 3:49:47.160 The iHeartRadio, App Apple, podcasts or wherever. 3:49:46.880 --> 3:49:47.440 You listen to. 3:49:47.480 --> 3:49:50.240 Podcasts you can now find sources For It Could happen, 3:49:50.280 --> 3:49:52.960 here listed directly in episode. Descriptions thanks for. 3:49:53.040 --> 3:49:53.440 Listening