Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 1: These are our stories.
Speaker 3: Done done, Hello and welcome to That's Messed Up and
Speaker 3: SVU podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm Kara Klank and I only as a trigger. We're
Speaker 2: thrilled you're here. We talk SVU true crime. Sometimes we
Speaker 2: have celebrity guests. Sometimes we just keep on talking like
Speaker 2: they're not here, and guess what, the episodes end up
Speaker 2: being longer. Still, so that's that's the truth. That's the
Speaker 2: truth here. That's Messed Up. Obviously we chit chat up top.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I have nothing, Like what do I
Speaker 1: meant for me?
Speaker 2: I want to lay in my bed, Like I just
Speaker 2: want to be well moistorized and in my bed.
Speaker 1: And that's laptop burning my chest.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and a joint burning my lungs and that's
Speaker 2: what I want.
Speaker 3: And that's your Christmas miracle. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, because my parents don't even know what a podcast is,
Speaker 2: I will say I'm going to surprise them this New
Speaker 2: Year's Oh yeah, I'm gonna fly on home.
Speaker 1: You that's cute.
Speaker 3: Because that's like your family's thing. You guys love New
Speaker 3: Year's together. We do, and we like so I like
Speaker 3: being a surprise. We like surprising each other with physical
Speaker 3: bodies arriving and not arrived.
Speaker 1: Yes, And one.
Speaker 3: Year we were we were like at Bucky's and I
Speaker 3: think you bought your whole family matching like sweatshirts or something,
Speaker 3: or T shirts or something to wear on New Year's together.
Speaker 2: So yeah, we have like historic photos, like one year
Speaker 2: we all wore ties, one year we all wore like
Speaker 2: pajamas from Thailand. One year we all dressed like singers
Speaker 2: or like celebrities because I think I was trying to
Speaker 2: be Gwyneth Paltrow that year the Oscars.
Speaker 1: So we yeah, we've like done themes. I love that.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry to Tangent, but the way you just said
Speaker 3: singer reminded me of because I'm a singer. And did
Speaker 3: you hear this thing that a priest let Sabrina Carpenter
Speaker 3: shoot a video in his church and because of that,
Speaker 3: it led to the discovery that he gave two million
Speaker 3: dollars to one of Eric Adams's guys in New York City,
Speaker 3: like to Eric Adams Kingmaker as they say, which is like,
Speaker 3: I think, just a go like a guy who works
Speaker 3: for him and makes things happen for him. But like
Speaker 3: this was in the cut, did like twenty five Things
Speaker 3: to Love about New York or something like that, and
Speaker 3: this was one of the things.
Speaker 2: I saw that, but I didn't dig deeper, and I
Speaker 2: am curious how Like so then the accountant or someone
Speaker 2: recognized the church and the video, Like what was it
Speaker 2: that got found out?
Speaker 1: Like? How is what? I'm curious.
Speaker 3: He's being accused of mishandling two million dollars in parish
Speaker 3: funds and he made unauthorized financial transfers to a former
Speaker 3: aid in Eric Adams administration, which is now under federal
Speaker 3: corruption probe. This is going to be a miss view episode,
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Also, wait, I'll say another thing that
Speaker 1: happened like today.
Speaker 3: I think it all started on Halloween, Carpenter released the
Speaker 3: music video for her song Feather, which takes place partially
Speaker 3: in a Brooklyn church. Okay, so a bishop saw it
Speaker 3: and was like appalled that it had been filmed in
Speaker 3: a church, probably because Sabrina's you know, looking hot. It
Speaker 3: doesn't follow their policy regarding filming on church property and
Speaker 3: they were supposed to have like a review of the
Speaker 3: scenes in the script or something. I think because he
Speaker 3: didn't comply with like the parish's video filming policy or whatever.
Speaker 3: They looked into more shit that he was doing, and
Speaker 3: they found that he had given this two million dollars
Speaker 3: to the Mayor of New York's person, and the Mayor
Speaker 3: of New York is like under a lot of scrutiny
Speaker 3: for corruption and like not being not being a great guy.
Speaker 2: But he made.
Speaker 3: Any statements about it. I don't think so. I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't think so. But she did wear a shirt
Speaker 3: to Coachella that says Jesus was a carpenter, okay earlier
Speaker 3: this year. But yeah, I don't know. I don't think
Speaker 3: Sabrina has said anything.
Speaker 2: But I just keeping hearing how many pop stars have
Speaker 2: stuff with the church, because now I'm thinking about Katie Perry,
Speaker 2: you know, stealing the nuns home as like this is
Speaker 2: so funny. I wonder where Madonna filmed her like a
Speaker 2: prayer music video. It's so funny how the same things
Speaker 2: are offensive for decades, like nothing ever changes.
Speaker 1: People are just still mad.
Speaker 2: At anyone being remotely slutty, and like, oh, Jesus, Yes
Speaker 2: is everything.
Speaker 1: I don't know it so weird.
Speaker 3: You want to hear some cute school gossip from Rosie.
Speaker 3: So you last year so graciously sat with Oscar for
Speaker 3: like forty five minutes to an hour.
Speaker 1: I went and watched Rosie's.
Speaker 3: Very gracious, so gracious, very demure of you and you.
Speaker 3: So they're doing it again this year, like another performance,
Speaker 3: but this year Rosie's in the dual language, so they're
Speaker 3: doing All I Want for Christmas is you?
Speaker 1: In Spanish?
Speaker 3: Toto loke kioto ries too right, And it's the exact
Speaker 3: same words as the English thing.
Speaker 1: It's just in Spanish. Oh okay, it's just in Spanish.
Speaker 3: Like they're like, they don't change the meaning really like
Speaker 3: you know, because sometimes they'll change the meaning a little
Speaker 3: bit so that the words fit better, like you know, lyrically.
Speaker 3: But a couple, like one mom in our class is
Speaker 3: saying that it's inappropriate for kindergarteners, and we're all like
Speaker 3: looking at the lyrics. I'm like, look, I don't speak Spanish,
Speaker 3: but I'm like reading the Spanish being like, I mean,
Speaker 3: I read enough Spanish to be like, I don't think
Speaker 3: there's anything sexual in here, everything's like I want to
Speaker 3: be close to you. I want to put my arms
Speaker 3: around you. There's like one part about lips or something,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, there's a kiss in every Disney movie,
Speaker 3: Like I just don't think this is inappropriate. And she
Speaker 3: basically put it in our group being like does everybody
Speaker 3: think this? Doesn't everybody think this is a little bit inappropriate?
Speaker 3: And this is not even like the kind of lady
Speaker 3: that makes a lot of problems, like you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, this is not a Karen. And everybody was
Speaker 3: like no, like nobody answered, and the few people that
Speaker 3: did answer were like no. And she's brought it to
Speaker 3: the principal today and it's like making the teachers lives
Speaker 3: miserable because they're just trying to teach these kids a
Speaker 3: very complicated song in Spanish and she keeps complaining and
Speaker 3: they keep thinking that they have to change it, but
Speaker 3: like it's.
Speaker 2: One bitch, So I hope it doesn't work. I know
Speaker 2: it's on you, like you want your kid out of there,
Speaker 2: it's not yeah, don't let them do the performance. Then
Speaker 2: my fifth grade teacher wouldn't let us do Barbie Girl, Barbie,
Speaker 2: I'm a Barbie, Yeah, Barbie girl. He said it was inappropriate,
Speaker 2: and it's like, we're ten, we don't know that. Let
Speaker 2: us do the Barbie song. You fucking I can't listen
Speaker 2: to the Barbie song all the time. They've never been like,
Speaker 2: what does undress me wear mean?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like, they don't. They don't know we're putting that on them.
Speaker 3: You're putting that on them? Is like me and this
Speaker 3: other one we're talking about this morning. We're like, you're
Speaker 3: the one giving your kids these ideas. Because then Rosie
Speaker 3: comes home and goes, yeah, I think we're changing the
Speaker 3: song because somebody said it's inappropriate, and I was like, no,
Speaker 3: I think the song is staying.
Speaker 1: It's not inappropriate anyway.
Speaker 3: It's a full, it's a full so annoying drama, but
Speaker 3: I'm sure they're gonna end up doing it.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, but it is Christmas Eve. Everyone's stirring
Speaker 2: even a mouse. No, yeah, I know that's not how
Speaker 2: the real story goes. But what am I doing Christmas Eve?
Speaker 2: I'm hopefully getting drunk at the cellar and doing spots
Speaker 2: for the Jews in town and the people with no family.
Speaker 2: So we'll see or and some European tourists. I'm sure. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I'm really excited for that Christmas Day classic American
Speaker 2: vibes with friends in New York City, And yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 2: I did see one movie in my one of the
Speaker 2: streamers called Surviving Christmas, and I've never even heard of
Speaker 2: it or seen anything. But Ben Affleck's like a lonely,
Speaker 2: weird millionaire and he pays James Gandolfini two hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars to stay with his family and his
Speaker 2: old childhood home and do.
Speaker 1: Whatever he says.
Speaker 2: Wait why because he's lonely. He wants story live the
Speaker 2: magic of his youth.
Speaker 3: And it's Catherine O'Hara and Christina Applegate also in it.
Speaker 3: I've never heard of this. Yeah, the star studded, what's
Speaker 3: going on?
Speaker 1: I mean, it is weird.
Speaker 3: It's weird. It's just weird. It's like weird that it
Speaker 3: didn't even become like a funny haha, bad movie, you know, like,
Speaker 3: and James Gandolfini is like beloved.
Speaker 2: So I don't know, well, I saw. My goal is
Speaker 2: to watch it this holiday season.
Speaker 1: I think you can accomplish that, and I really want
Speaker 1: to know. Well. The first review I'm seeing is this
Speaker 1: was a really tough watch.
Speaker 2: Oh man, all right, so you know you're not supposed
Speaker 2: to be a bitch, right, but can I just tell you?
Speaker 2: So my TV's not working, like I came back from
Speaker 2: a town. It's like shaken up about like it's just
Speaker 2: it's glitchy. It's just not work. It doesn't work. I
Speaker 2: can call best Buy. They're like, listen, and then one time,
Speaker 2: you don't buy the fucking warranty, right, But they go,
Speaker 2: you have a manufacturing warranty for up to a year,
Speaker 2: so just call Roku. So I call Roku and the
Speaker 2: woman's like, no, you got to call best spy. I go,
Speaker 2: absolutely not. Best By told me to call you. I
Speaker 2: have a one year thing, Like I don't know what
Speaker 2: to tell. And then I go, give me a supervisor.
Speaker 2: I go, I'm not dealing with you. I go give
Speaker 2: me a supervisor. Supervisor gets on. He I send him
Speaker 2: the video and then he tries to let me think
Speaker 2: it's like the electricity. I go, well, no, sir, everything
Speaker 2: else is connected to the same electricity and it's working fine.
Speaker 2: And then he goes, you're right, it's a hardware issue.
Speaker 2: We'll send you a new TV. In three to seven days. Ah,
Speaker 2: So it's just like, what the fuck? So if I
Speaker 2: wasn't annoying, I would I never call Best Buy and
Speaker 2: then go back and it's like, what are we teaching me?
Speaker 3: I just don't get it. People are like, don't be
Speaker 3: a Karen. But then like, there are certain situations where
Speaker 3: if you do not keep asking for the manager, asking
Speaker 3: for the next level of person, you do not get anything.
Speaker 3: Like I had to get a fucking my solar panels,
Speaker 3: I had to get a lean removed all this stuff.
Speaker 3: I went on Reddit and they were like, you need
Speaker 3: to keep asking for a manager or you're not gonna
Speaker 3: get anywhere. And that's what I did, and I finally
Speaker 3: got what I had to get done. Like but then
Speaker 3: people are like, oh, you're this bitch, You're this Karen.
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: If I just listened to her, I would have called
Speaker 2: Best Spy. They would have been no, called Roku bat
Speaker 2: like cause then I told the guy I go, and
Speaker 2: I've been told to the superrisor go, And now you
Speaker 2: want me to call Best Bike and he goes, no,
Speaker 2: you don't have to. It's some manufacturing warrantcy like you
Speaker 2: called the right place, and it's like then what what
Speaker 2: rigamarole is going on here?
Speaker 3: And I don't you feel bad for people that like
Speaker 3: are more shy or maybe don't speak English or like
Speaker 3: you know, there's like harder like ways to communicate and
Speaker 3: be forceful.
Speaker 1: It's like it sucks. Do your job. What do you
Speaker 1: fucking get?
Speaker 2: Maybe they get punished if they give away free TVs
Speaker 2: and it's like I didn't want a free TV. I
Speaker 2: want this TV to work, or I thought someone would
Speaker 2: fix it, because now I have to have someone take
Speaker 2: it off the wall mount, you know, like yeah, I
Speaker 2: would have rather you guys fixed it.
Speaker 1: I didn't need a it doesn't you were saying it
Speaker 1: doesn't turn on at all?
Speaker 2: Well, and then if you plug it out and then
Speaker 2: back in, it's like per I mean I could show
Speaker 2: you the eight second video that I oh if I
Speaker 2: threw my phone away, but it's just like, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: not working.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well no, because I was gonna say like like, yeah,
Speaker 3: if it was, you know, that's that sucks. If it was, Oh,
Speaker 3: I don't know. I was like, if it's partially working,
Speaker 3: someone will take it. Like if you wanted to, like
Speaker 3: you do buy nothing or something because like I would
Speaker 3: I've given away when Oscar.
Speaker 1: Threw the phone at my TV.
Speaker 3: It had like a full bars on the side, and
Speaker 3: I like put it on a group and people were like,
Speaker 3: I'll think bye nothing group.
Speaker 1: Is truly like a TLC show for the you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, It's.
Speaker 3: Funny that you said that because I was talking to
Speaker 3: Scotty Landis last night, who the host of Bananas. I
Speaker 3: was talking to him and Bridger, the host of I
Speaker 3: said no gifts, and I was like telling them about
Speaker 3: buying nothing groups, and they go, this sounds like a script,
Speaker 3: this sounds like a TV show, like these people, and
Speaker 3: I was telling them about all these specific people with
Speaker 3: like I was giving their names of people that live
Speaker 3: in my neighborhood. I'm like, this guy came to my
Speaker 3: house for a half a bag of ice. He came
Speaker 3: within five minutes this morning, the day after I said
Speaker 3: last week, the day after Thanksgiving, I had a pie
Speaker 3: and I had four loose potatoes.
Speaker 1: I put it up.
Speaker 3: It was they were out of the house before Jared
Speaker 3: woke up. Like, I'm using the buy nothing big time.
Speaker 1: Baby.
Speaker 3: I love it. I mean, it makes me just feel
Speaker 3: good to not throw things away. I think to like
Speaker 3: know someone else is getting good use out of it,
Speaker 3: so it's really it's really for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, I mean if the half bag of ice
Speaker 2: is wasted, you know, it really is.
Speaker 1: So the half bag of ice not as much.
Speaker 3: But I was like, hey, anyone having a party soon,
Speaker 3: Like I've got a half a bag of like that
Speaker 3: big bags of ice, you know, but you know you're
Speaker 3: just helping neighbors.
Speaker 1: You're just doing doing the uh mister rogers of it all?
Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, I Christmas Eve, I don't know. I imagine
Speaker 3: when this episode comes out, I'll be frantically wrapping a
Speaker 3: bunch of shit I ordered from Amazon for my children.
Speaker 1: Wait do you know yet?
Speaker 2: Or but for them it's easy because they want so
Speaker 2: many things, right or it's okay.
Speaker 3: So easy, like the only problem will be like don't
Speaker 3: order too much. Like I sometimes I'm like, is that enough?
Speaker 3: Like you know, it's like you want the bottom of
Speaker 3: the tree to look like big and like like impressive
Speaker 3: when they come out, But it's like we're doing it here.
Speaker 3: It's not like they're getting a bunch of different presents
Speaker 3: from different family members and stuff, so it's like they
Speaker 3: don't really need more than four gifts each, like they
Speaker 3: have so much shit, but I'm probably gonna get more,
Speaker 3: you know, but I want to get in books and
Speaker 3: like stuff like I'll get them some like used stuff
Speaker 3: probably that they.
Speaker 1: Won't notice is used.
Speaker 3: And then a couple of nice things from the Amazon catalog.
Speaker 3: The only thing Oscar keeps talking about, which I haven't
Speaker 3: even looked at the catalog, is a unicorn that shoots comfetti.
Speaker 1: He's like, I want that, That's all I want.
Speaker 3: Santa better bring me this unicorn that shoots cood putty
Speaker 3: like he's obsessed. So hopefully that's in the catalog and
Speaker 3: easy to find. Unlike the dinosaur that shoots toys out
Speaker 3: of its mouth, which was what Rosi asked for two
Speaker 3: Christmases ago and is not a real thing. It's like
Speaker 3: a thing she invented in her mind and I had
Speaker 3: to find something that fitted, but I did.
Speaker 2: Anyway, I know, I wish we can, like you know,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to wait a long time to know
Speaker 2: how it all goes goes down. I mean, are you
Speaker 2: excited to do an La Christmas? Are you going to
Speaker 2: the show the next day? We were going to the
Speaker 2: puppet show earlier in the month. But I am really
Speaker 2: excited for Christmas in La. Like people leave town. There's
Speaker 2: no traffic, the weather's nice. We're taking the kids to
Speaker 2: some huge like light bright installation that's happening.
Speaker 1: Did you do light bright when you were a kid?
Speaker 3: No, Well, the kids like love that, Like a lot
Speaker 3: of kids museums now have like light bright esque shit,
Speaker 3: and so there's some big thing in Santa Monica.
Speaker 1: I want to take them to the long Beach Canals
Speaker 1: if you can.
Speaker 3: You can like go on these canals and look at
Speaker 3: all these lights that people do. I keep seeing these
Speaker 3: tiktoks of like the best La light displays, and like
Speaker 3: some of the neighborhoods are like hour an hour away,
Speaker 3: but I'm gonna try to find one that's closer and
Speaker 3: like take them on a little light thing. I don't
Speaker 3: know what else, but it's gonna be a long ass break,
Speaker 3: so we'll see. I'm probably gonna go. But my in
Speaker 3: laws are coming also for a week, so oh they are, yeah, exciting.
Speaker 3: Here Santa Claus, Here comes Santa Claus. My you know,
Speaker 3: my kids call their grandfather Vanilla for no reason. They
Speaker 3: just started calling him Vanilla. So they're just like Oh
Speaker 3: my god, Grammy and Vanilla are coming. We're so excited.
Speaker 3: It's like Oscar started doing it one day on FaceTime
Speaker 3: out of nowhere. He's like, hi, Vanilla. The only thing
Speaker 3: I can think of is my father in law has
Speaker 3: white hair. Maybe it like looks like Vanilla ice cream.
Speaker 3: Like I don't know why doesn't, but it was just
Speaker 3: like a grown man with a full life, and suddenly
Speaker 3: now you're Vanilla.
Speaker 1: Are not wild? Yeah yeah, Vanilla.
Speaker 3: So Grammy and Vanilla will be in town, and I'm
Speaker 3: excited to not have to fly and like go anywhere,
Speaker 3: but like I'll miss my fan but like you know, it's, uh,
Speaker 3: this is kind of we do every other year back East,
Speaker 3: and then every other year everybody kind of scatters to
Speaker 3: their people. So I think, like my sister will be
Speaker 3: in New Jersey and my brother will be in Ohio
Speaker 3: and YadA YadA.
Speaker 1: But uh yeah, oh that makes sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and like because sometimes they'll strawitch it up
Speaker 3: with with like Thanksgiving and stuff. But I can't see
Speaker 3: myself really ever traveling for Thanksgiving. Like you said, three
Speaker 3: days is perfect and that's just not that's just like
Speaker 3: too much to do with the like four of us,
Speaker 3: especially with the airlines killing us on flights.
Speaker 1: But let's uh, you know, off of this.
Speaker 3: I think it's funny by the way that we are
Speaker 3: doing this episode game like right at Christmas when people
Speaker 3: are probably giving like tons of video games to people
Speaker 3: like and it's like the biggest time of the year.
Speaker 1: I feel like for gamers to.
Speaker 2: Like get games, but a lot of people do like
Speaker 2: games where they're a little elf and they're like, you know,
Speaker 2: achieving dreams in the forest. Not everyone is shooting them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure achieving dream Rosie's
Speaker 3: like already getting into Minecraft and I like want to die,
Speaker 3: But I guess they're actually just like architecture. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: it's it's educational Minecraft, Like they let them play it
Speaker 3: at school for like three minutes at the end of
Speaker 3: the day because it's got it's got problem solving and
Speaker 3: building and stuff. So I love For three months, I
Speaker 3: was like, whatever, it's like for three minutes. Like they're
Speaker 3: on the iPad total for forty five minutes a week,
Speaker 3: so it's not thank you. Also, by the way, to
Speaker 3: everybody who wrote to me asking me to read The
Speaker 3: Anxious Generation, I already have.
Speaker 1: I already have it.
Speaker 3: And I'm already I've already forming my plan for my
Speaker 3: children's getting my children phones.
Speaker 1: So what does it say that you're gonna do? Like
Speaker 1: what did you learn or like or.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm I'm pretty close to the beginning of the book.
Speaker 3: But the main things, the main takeaways were no phones
Speaker 3: until freshman year, no phones until ninth grade. You can
Speaker 3: before that do flip phones or little watches that text
Speaker 3: or whatever, but like nothing that gets on the internet
Speaker 3: before ninth grade. And then no social media till sixteen, which,
Speaker 3: by the way, Australia just outlawed social media under sixteen.
Speaker 1: No phones in school. And there's like one more.
Speaker 3: Thing that I always forget that's like the big takeaway,
Speaker 3: but it's pretty much all stuff that could be easily
Speaker 3: done if all parents just did it. Like if people
Speaker 3: just didn't give their kids a phone when they were seven,
Speaker 3: then there wouldn't be your kid wouldn't be coming home
Speaker 3: going well, Susie has a phone, you know, So.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fuck Susie, Yeah, fuck that little Susie.
Speaker 3: But anyway, hopefully you guys are not all wrapping cell
Speaker 3: phones right now for your five year olds and you're
Speaker 3: having a very merry Christmas.
Speaker 1: And let's get on the way festive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then now we're gonna just take you if
Speaker 3: you happen to be listening to us while you're ropping presents,
Speaker 3: or maybe you're going on a walk to escape your family. There,
Speaker 3: we're just going to take you through a brutal crime
Speaker 3: an a sociopath. So here we go.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're gonna do the episode game today. And I
Speaker 2: always forget what this is and then it starts, and
Speaker 2: then I remember, I don't know, it's not it's not
Speaker 2: in my like, I don't think about this one a lot.
Speaker 1: I for me, this one I've seen so many times.
Speaker 3: It's just like I don't know why it's just come
Speaker 3: up on my USA Network marathons, Like it's just one
Speaker 3: of the ones I've seen so many times that like,
Speaker 3: even when it's when it was happening, I was like,
Speaker 3: I like remember lines from this, like I remember actual
Speaker 3: things people.
Speaker 1: Are about to say. Oh yeah, so it's.
Speaker 2: Crazy, Season six, episode fourteen, And okay, so we start
Speaker 2: out there's a woman walking, she's alone on a street.
Speaker 2: It's trouble and she's giving me Miley Cyrus vibes during
Speaker 2: the climb Slash can't be tamed Era, but she is
Speaker 2: a grown woman. So she's like walking on a cell
Speaker 2: phone and while she's on the phone, a black car
Speaker 2: comes just speeding down the street, straight up runs into her.
Speaker 2: She tries to grab her cell phone to get help,
Speaker 2: but the footsteps are now approaching her. She's crawling, she's struggling,
Speaker 2: and she struggles right into Finn and Stabler on the
Speaker 2: on the crime scene, a real flash forward situation.
Speaker 1: This woman was in her twenties. Life's been tough on her.
Speaker 2: Okay, no id, no purse, but we saw one earlier,
Speaker 2: so we know the purse was taken. And then she
Speaker 2: was run over and then Stabler asks and Finn is like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is the first hit and run and rape I've
Speaker 2: ever seen. So basically, the car drove up a sidewalk
Speaker 2: to hit her, knocked her down. There's a trail of
Speaker 2: blood and its smeared, so she was like getting dragged.
Speaker 2: She didn't get far and then she's covered in a sheet,
Speaker 2: so now we know she's dead. She's now also naked.
Speaker 2: We did not meet her naked, so they took her
Speaker 2: clothes and purse beat her to death.
Speaker 1: She's m nightmare.
Speaker 2: The nine one one call was an anonymous call, and
Speaker 2: so we need to like figure out who called. Munch
Speaker 2: is in the office and he's with like the nine
Speaker 2: to one one operators, and that's pretty exciting.
Speaker 1: He's in the room.
Speaker 2: We find out it's from a payphone uptown a quarter
Speaker 2: after midnight, and we're looking for the call.
Speaker 1: We're looking for a call. It's a man.
Speaker 2: So the boy Brigade, Finns, Stabler and Munch are listening
Speaker 2: to the call and it sounds like a cop because
Speaker 2: they're using the language.
Speaker 1: It's like, call a bus. They're like, that's a cop. Yeah.
Speaker 2: If you're a cop trying to do some business, don't
Speaker 2: say call a bus, that's sure. And if you're trying
Speaker 2: to frame a cop, say call a bus. Yeah. But
Speaker 2: the call happened on the Upper east Side, so it's like,
Speaker 2: how did that happen? This This all took place way downtown.
Speaker 2: So Stabler goes, well, maybe he ran her over, who
Speaker 2: fucking knows. But it goes straight to the credits with
Speaker 2: no information to be had, and now we're on the
Speaker 2: clear board in the middle of the precinct, gruesome photos
Speaker 2: of the scene. The Emmy has the DNA, so there's
Speaker 2: tons of fluids, so we'll see what's up. There's also
Speaker 2: a lot of black and pink fragments. We got to
Speaker 2: see what that is. And now Benson comes in with
Speaker 2: info about figuring out like which cop it was and
Speaker 2: who called nine one one, and Stabler's like, listen, whoever
Speaker 2: did this is on PCP or it's personal because this
Speaker 2: is so aggressive, And then Craigan asks Benson, when's the
Speaker 2: homicide course start?
Speaker 1: And yeah, so I think this is.
Speaker 2: Her maternity leave era as August was born, so it starts. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so she goes, oh, it started two hours ago, and
Speaker 2: we never see her again. So I love this kind
Speaker 2: of schedule. She comes in and has a meeting, a
Speaker 2: battered women, a conference conference, a homicide event, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: She's out.
Speaker 2: So but we got something on the payphone, but there's
Speaker 2: so many prints, but the caller wiped the phone but
Speaker 2: then left a perfect print on the disconnect button and
Speaker 2: it's a ten point match to an NYPD officer, and
Speaker 2: thanks to our little sexy crime tech o'hallerin, we have
Speaker 2: the name. His name's Tony Nasadorin and that's our caller.
Speaker 2: But he, unfortunately right now, is on a joint terrorism
Speaker 2: Task Force, and his rep is like, we can't risk
Speaker 2: blowing his cover, Like he can't, No one can know
Speaker 2: he made that call. This is the most you're gonna get,
Speaker 2: and the FEDS are gonna be pissed that even told
Speaker 2: you this much. But he's saying he didn't see anything.
Speaker 2: She's sorry, but she has to look at the bigger
Speaker 2: picture and she's not gonna help. Sailor's pleading like, please,
Speaker 2: this is all we have. She agrees to help, and
Speaker 2: she says this cannot go public or be used in
Speaker 2: trial though, and Craigan does agree to those terms, and
Speaker 2: we're at a walk and talk. She's explaining that they're
Speaker 2: working on a crooked Filipino businessman who wires funds to
Speaker 2: charities in the Far East that support terrorist groups. So
Speaker 2: that's what we're looking for, and we don't really get
Speaker 2: a lot of Filipino storylines, so I'm kind of excited.
Speaker 2: And they go to an under cover apartment. There's satellites
Speaker 2: and tripods, so you know, there's a lot of secrets
Speaker 2: and work going on, and we find out our caller
Speaker 2: and we're like, so, what does this Filipino man have
Speaker 2: to do with the case? Tony answers that they tapped
Speaker 2: all his phones and they caught him having a conversation
Speaker 2: with one of his employees. So the girl that he
Speaker 2: was talking to is an employee, and she's a working girl.
Speaker 1: He is a pimp, she is an escort.
Speaker 2: He's claiming no sex, no sex anyways, Okay, I'm getting
Speaker 2: out of myself. So but the whole attack is fucking
Speaker 2: recorded on this call because that's who she was talking to,
Speaker 2: arranging a ride from seeing one of the johns. So,
Speaker 2: because all the phones were tapped and recorded, Tony like
Speaker 2: heard the whole call and then the phone flew over
Speaker 2: and so he was hearing the whole attack happen. And
Speaker 2: he is a good investigator, I think, and does care.
Speaker 2: So he's like, I knew I had to do something.
Speaker 2: It went bad. Fan hates this fucking pimp and is like,
Speaker 2: I can't believe he wouldn't even help his own girl out,
Speaker 2: Like this is scum. We get the name of the pamp,
Speaker 2: Eddie Shaw. So they enter Eddie's office and he lies
Speaker 2: about being a pimp. But what are you gonna do? Yes,
Speaker 2: I'm a pimp officer. No, So he said, they're smart
Speaker 2: and respectable and it's all about companionship, and they threaten
Speaker 2: him with everything. They're like, we're gonna get I NS on,
Speaker 2: you irs, vice everything. So he agrees to talk pretty quickly,
Speaker 2: so we find out her name.
Speaker 1: Her name is Melody Quinn.
Speaker 2: And then they also go to arrest him, and then
Speaker 2: they also want a list of all the clients. So
Speaker 2: Stabler approaches one of the clients who's entering a cab
Speaker 2: and is just like, were you screwing this woman last night?
Speaker 2: And then we're talking to an old man and now
Speaker 2: a business guy. You know, it's just like we're going
Speaker 2: through a mirage of John's and they all had sex
Speaker 2: with her, but none of them have a sports car.
Speaker 3: Well enough, you could say a mirage of John's, which
Speaker 3: I love. I think you meant a collage. But mirage
Speaker 3: of John's is great too, like a mirage that disappears
Speaker 3: in the in the in the desert.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm okay with what I said.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so so they all but they all say that
Speaker 2: they you know, they did not hit her, and you know,
Speaker 2: they're like, where was she? They're you know, they're just
Speaker 2: so then now that we've met all these clients and
Speaker 2: there's all this sex it's like, well she raped or
Speaker 2: is this just workges And so they have to figure
Speaker 2: that out, and for some wild reason, Kathy drops Dickie.
Speaker 1: Off at the office, like because he's a twin.
Speaker 2: So if Dickie had some sort of off day at school,
Speaker 2: so would his twin.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Elizabeth had piano. I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 1: We never know anything about Elizabeth, so I don't know
Speaker 1: what she's doing. Maybe they don't.
Speaker 2: And Kathy was so fed up it's like, just take Dickie.
Speaker 2: I'm out of here, like I I don't I don't
Speaker 2: get And then he's like fully looking at the crime
Speaker 2: scene photos. It's just the bloodiest crime scene of this woman.
Speaker 2: Dickie's there, no wonder he went nuts, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, being open to all of this, just looking
Speaker 2: at a bloody woman. But he's asking questions about the case.
Speaker 2: It's a real you know, follow your dad to work day.
Speaker 2: But the kid's about to actually crack the case with
Speaker 2: all these all these questions because he guesses that this
Speaker 2: is all based on a video game called Intensity spelled
Speaker 2: nten City.
Speaker 1: So as like C I T Y in ten CIT.
Speaker 3: Which I didn't notice until this viewing because I had
Speaker 3: my captions on, but normally I never I've been hearing
Speaker 3: about intensity for years.
Speaker 1: Through this episode, I never knew was spelled like that, but.
Speaker 2: I know it's uh, it is silly. Intense City is silly.
Speaker 2: I wrote ha haha afterwards because I did like the
Speaker 2: spell it. So it's a Grand Theft auto style game
Speaker 2: and Dicky goes like everyone plays it. Sailor is not
Speaker 2: happy watching his son play, but the Sun's like beating
Speaker 2: the game and he's beating the shit out of this
Speaker 2: woman and he robs her, and Craigan turns off the
Speaker 2: game and is like, fuck, I guess somebody's playing the
Speaker 2: game for real. So obviously we need Bed Wong on
Speaker 2: the case immediately, you know, he comes talks and obviously
Speaker 2: that you're gonna have ethical talk about fucking video games
Speaker 2: and violence and effects on people. And it's the classic
Speaker 2: Marilyn Manson Columbine chat that's been I think going on
Speaker 2: for ever. Rock and Roll, Elvis the Devil, I mean,
Speaker 2: you've been blaming stuff besides their bad parenting and religion
Speaker 2: for I don't know how long. I want to know
Speaker 2: when this kind of vibe started. Were they like Mozart's
Speaker 2: driving the youth mad, Like, I want to know, when,
Speaker 2: you know, do they need TVs to start blaming people?
Speaker 2: Were they blaming the gester, the gesters, the court gesters?
Speaker 2: So silly?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: But when did we start blaming entertainment for kids for
Speaker 3: people's behavior?
Speaker 2: Ye?
Speaker 1: I interesting, Yeah, I want to know.
Speaker 2: So if you're if that was by chance, you're you know,
Speaker 2: senior thesis, let us know.
Speaker 1: And then we find and then.
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, the purp can be from ten to
Speaker 2: fifty years old, really helpful. But I don't think a
Speaker 2: ten year old could you know, drive a car and
Speaker 2: do all this stuff be obviously I'm thinking about the
Speaker 2: little kid from the Little Kid from Trials.
Speaker 3: He obviously does drive a car, but I don't think
Speaker 3: he's doing.
Speaker 1: The rest of it.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I don't think he could you know,
Speaker 2: stomp a woman like this. Bad guesses though that whoever
Speaker 2: did this probably wants to brag about it because he's
Speaker 2: such a dork. So it's like, let's, you know, find
Speaker 2: out like the game company, the message boards, the whatever,
Speaker 2: and we're gonna like get to the bottom of a bit.
Speaker 2: So we go to tech Top Games and that's spelled
Speaker 2: different than you're thinking too. It's t e K top
Speaker 2: so and they can't even spell a full tech out there.
Speaker 2: That's like what hip companies are. They're like, let's just
Speaker 2: spell something wrong and then that means we're inventive.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 2: So, like they go to visit this dork and this
Speaker 2: guy was actually married to Christina hen Henderson Hendrix for Hendrix.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so he was married to her for a while.
Speaker 3: He's brother in law's with He was a brother in
Speaker 3: law's with I know he is brother in laws with
Speaker 3: Anthony and Tammanik. Like his is married to Anthony and Timmanick. Yeah,
Speaker 3: oh exciting.
Speaker 2: So so he's the dork in charge of this company
Speaker 2: and he's like, oh not again. When he hears about
Speaker 2: the crime, he goes, come on, the games are fun cartoons,
Speaker 2: you know. If some couple of idiots take it too far,
Speaker 2: that's not on us. And Phil and Finn is like,
Speaker 2: well look at the look at the crime scene photos
Speaker 2: and then he kind of chuckles and it's like, what's
Speaker 2: so fucking funny, dork, and he says them lighten up,
Speaker 2: and then he goes, this sequence is actually an Easter drag,
Speaker 2: a hidden treat, and you have to be a good player,
Speaker 2: but not anymore because of all the internet. You know,
Speaker 2: you can read it off any fan sites, so anyone
Speaker 2: can get to the East drags. So we got to
Speaker 2: hit up these fan sites like see who's bragging about
Speaker 2: doing this? Monch stays to play the game and like
Speaker 2: figure things out while Finn runs to meet Stabler at
Speaker 2: the Emmy's office. She sadly died from a subdual hematoba,
Speaker 2: but she suffered before she died.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I wrote, but it should be like,
Speaker 1: but she didn't suffer.
Speaker 4: I don't know, and and would have been fine, but
Speaker 4: it's like, but don't worry, guys, she suffered slowly before
Speaker 4: she died.
Speaker 2: I don't, Oh my god. Forty two points of impact,
Speaker 2: like what the fuck? And the kicking and stomping is
Speaker 2: a man shoe size nine, but the puncture wounds were
Speaker 2: a little bit of a puzzle to her.
Speaker 1: But it's a heel. It's a fucking heel.
Speaker 2: And then Melinda takes off a stiletto and goes a
Speaker 2: woman fucking stomps on her, and Melinda goes, I usually
Speaker 2: don't wear this, but I have an Emmy's dinner tonight, babe.
Speaker 2: You could change after work. You're wearing scrubs and the
Speaker 2: heels all day to go to the dinner. That is
Speaker 2: the most unbelievable thing s you has done. Besides you know,
Speaker 2: zoom in on a photo.
Speaker 1: She looks good though they wanted to give us Melinda
Speaker 1: looking hot for like, you know, the eyeshadow.
Speaker 2: I get the eyeshadow, I get even the outfit, but
Speaker 2: like you could be wearing seekers under your medicat like
Speaker 2: it is no one would wear the heels all day
Speaker 2: that you're gonna get hire to the party all day.
Speaker 2: I got to maybe good, Yeah, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 2: And then like you know, she got some new evidence
Speaker 2: last minute or something.
Speaker 3: Now you can't be weighing spleens and shitto in stilettos
Speaker 3: all day.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, it's just so cool we talk
Speaker 2: to her like to know, like what organs they used
Speaker 2: for that scene. And this is actually one of her
Speaker 2: most famous scenes. So this is really exciting.
Speaker 1: Oh not yet. Later in the episode of My Bad
Speaker 1: I teased too far.
Speaker 2: Anyways, I wrote like eight paragraphs of like she would
Speaker 2: not be wearing the heel, but like we have this
Speaker 2: whole conversation, you know, recorded by the authorities. So we
Speaker 2: have the tape, but we don't really hear a woman.
Speaker 2: So Joel de la Fuente aka Morales, a Taru friend
Speaker 2: of the pod. You know, it's going to take other
Speaker 2: noises away and see if we can find the woman.
Speaker 1: And we do hear a woman.
Speaker 2: Okay, and with a woman goes take her jacket, bitch, So.
Speaker 1: Munch has something.
Speaker 2: So back at the video game headquarters, they realize that
Speaker 2: a fan created their own scene that you can download
Speaker 2: off the internet.
Speaker 1: But they said off the net. And I want everyone
Speaker 1: to know that.
Speaker 2: I also haven't watched the Sandra Bullock movie the Net
Speaker 2: for a while, and I feel like I wonder how
Speaker 2: funny it is now like she's carrying around a floppy disk.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've never seen it. I gotta watch it. I
Speaker 3: definitely I have. Okay, anyways, sorry, I got wistful for
Speaker 3: some reason about old timey Sandra Bullock.
Speaker 2: Okay, So, so this download first appeared late last night,
Speaker 2: and the tech dork is like the only guy that
Speaker 2: could do this. I know exactly who it is. It's
Speaker 2: Stu Davis. He was a programmer here. He used to
Speaker 2: work here, but we had to fire him because he
Speaker 2: put like sneaky bunnies that were fucking like bunny rabbits
Speaker 2: into children's games. So he's a little bit of a
Speaker 2: pervert and they had to let him go, but they
Speaker 2: kept him on as a tester. He just can't doesn't
Speaker 2: have control, and he's such a dork every I mean,
Speaker 2: he's denying everything, but there's a warrant, so they're gonna
Speaker 2: like fucking take everything they want, giant glasses. He has
Speaker 2: a frizzy bob like he's probably gonna play Bill Gates
Speaker 2: in a biopic or something. This is just like the
Speaker 2: perfect guy to put fucking rabbits in a kid's video game.
Speaker 2: So in the waste basket, just like the only thing
Speaker 2: in it is the newspaper opened to an article about
Speaker 2: the crime that just happened. He's like, listen, I got
Speaker 2: an email requesting to make this scene. I do it
Speaker 2: for money. I just I make what people tell me.
Speaker 2: I'm a dork. I'm a dork for cash. And we're like, well,
Speaker 2: who sent the email? You know, guns up, we gotta
Speaker 2: go get this guy who sent the email, who requested
Speaker 2: this scene to be made programmed of the crime that
Speaker 2: we just saw. So we're like guns up going to
Speaker 2: the person who like sent the email to make this
Speaker 2: video game. So then Finn grabs a framed photo and
Speaker 2: right away is just like, this is rue, dude, this
Speaker 2: is the guy and it's like or his cousin or
Speaker 2: friend or brother or friend from college, like or a
Speaker 2: frame he stole from a party when he was blacked out,
Speaker 2: like to assume the one framed thing is of the
Speaker 2: person who lives there. Is the guy is so is
Speaker 2: so thin stabler in this mess of an apartment, like melodies,
Speaker 2: driver's license purse is just right in the middle in
Speaker 2: the garage is a black sports car covered in skin
Speaker 2: and blood, and we get you know, o'haller and gets
Speaker 2: a call and they found the guy and the guy
Speaker 2: was actually run over and beaten to death too. So
Speaker 2: the suspect is now dead in the street, massive head trauma,
Speaker 2: but not murdered. He just jumped and he hit his
Speaker 2: brain on the dumpster edgeH oh god. No evidence of
Speaker 2: a push, no defensive wounds, and he was four times
Speaker 2: the legal limit of drunk. His you know, but his
Speaker 2: car was used. It was his car with all the
Speaker 2: fragments and skin and everything. But the shoe size doesn't
Speaker 2: match he was a shoe size eleven and the stomping
Speaker 2: happened with a shoe size nine. We get a classic
Speaker 2: Melinda moment. She uses a flashlight and there's glitter all
Speaker 2: over his crotch and she goes, this is booty dust,
Speaker 2: my favorite booty dust. So she goes, he had one
Speaker 2: last lap dance before the plunge, So let's go visit
Speaker 2: the strip clubs.
Speaker 1: That's what you gotta do. So we go find the dancers.
Speaker 2: They're outside hanging out and one of them was actually
Speaker 2: the receptionist in the episode Sugar, so if you remember us, this.
Speaker 1: Is her baby.
Speaker 2: Both of them remember this guy. They're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: this sad dude. His friend tried to cheer him up.
Speaker 2: The friend was hot, they said, and then they kept
Speaker 2: ordering dom so they were drinking really expensive shit, getting wasted,
Speaker 2: and they're like, listen, you got to come in and
Speaker 2: do a sketch artist thing for us. So they go
Speaker 2: do that, and now there's like a lot of dorks
Speaker 2: names young voices brainstorming. They're all trying to figure out
Speaker 2: all these ideas are being thrown around, maybe like the
Speaker 2: youth main killers use the video game losers, but also
Speaker 2: it seems like this dead guy wanted to be caught,
Speaker 2: was just everywhere, and you know, maybe he felt guilty
Speaker 2: or something. But Finn gets off the phone. The crime
Speaker 2: lab brand tests on car residue and they're also listening
Speaker 2: to the tape and counting the steps in which door
Speaker 2: people came out of. I mean, a lot of good
Speaker 2: police work happening here. And you know, so now we
Speaker 2: know this Larry Tober guy, he's dead, but there are
Speaker 2: two other people. So who are these other people? Munch
Speaker 2: says that Taber got a bunch of calls from a
Speaker 2: cell phone belonging to someone named Luis Karnaki. She's only
Speaker 2: seventeen years old, so we gotta go.
Speaker 1: We have her in cement room bars.
Speaker 2: She goes, Larry's a loser and she doesn't like hanging
Speaker 2: out with him anymore. She doesn't have an answer for
Speaker 2: all the calls she made. She's like, I don't fucking know,
Speaker 2: but she's a very bad actress. And she pretends to
Speaker 2: like care be surprised by his death. That's not really working.
Speaker 2: Stabler walks in with a high heeled shoe and goes,
Speaker 2: this yours bitch, and they go yeah. She says yeah,
Speaker 2: they are, and they tell her about search warrants and
Speaker 2: the blue light and they blue light the boots and wow,
Speaker 2: it is shining.
Speaker 1: And she's like, I don't know what that is.
Speaker 2: But her voice seems worried, and they bring up They're like,
Speaker 2: it's gonna be a DNA match. All this shit on
Speaker 2: this boot is gonna like match with the DNA from
Speaker 2: the body and the car and everything, and you're fucking done.
Speaker 2: She's scared. Once the murder charge is brought up, like
Speaker 2: they're like, you're going down, she turns to her lawyer
Speaker 2: and goes, you have to help me.
Speaker 1: So then her lawyer goes, I need an ada.
Speaker 2: Novak walks in right in the nick of time, and
Speaker 2: he says if she cooperates, what does she get And
Speaker 2: Novak's like, uh, nothing, she's a murderer. And she goes, listen,
Speaker 2: I did the attacking, and but then throws Larry under
Speaker 2: the bus immediately and says, nobody else was there, just
Speaker 2: me and Larry.
Speaker 1: Larry did everything.
Speaker 2: Novak then puts the strippers sketch onto the table and
Speaker 2: goes not even him. She's worried. She's taken aback by
Speaker 2: the sketch. The guy looks like a deranged ken doll.
Speaker 2: She starts to cry. Her eyebrows are furrowed.
Speaker 3: She then she does remind me a little bit of
Speaker 3: Shorty of Smarty Coulottes from Abaca.
Speaker 1: A little bit. I'm getting this hat. It's vibe, little
Speaker 1: sharp angle lar face.
Speaker 3: Also side note, Lisa, the track team of the high
Speaker 3: school that I live near is working hard and they
Speaker 3: are practicing right outside of where I am recording. So
Speaker 3: if you hear young teen boys screaming at each other
Speaker 3: to run faster, that is what's happening.
Speaker 1: Lol. Love it.
Speaker 3: But they have like a whole stadio. Like, why are
Speaker 3: they in your alley because it goes uphill. I think
Speaker 3: they have to like run up hills and stuff. I guess,
Speaker 3: I don't know. They're just in the alley really going
Speaker 3: to town.
Speaker 2: Now, I know, La, it's really hard to find a hill, Okay,
Speaker 2: I don't know. You do have a nice, Sally, You
Speaker 2: do have a nice So you know, she's scared of
Speaker 2: whatever the drawing is of this dranged guy, and she goes,
Speaker 2: don't tell him, don't tell him. I just said anything,
Speaker 2: Please don't tell him. So this guy's name is Garrett Pearl.
Speaker 2: And when they go to arrest him, he is playing
Speaker 2: on his computer. Call him as a cucumber. He's like, hey, guys,
Speaker 2: what's up? As the police raight in, He's not worried.
Speaker 2: He's playing his games. He's deleting files, stay or rips
Speaker 2: them up from the chair. Temper temper, he says, And
Speaker 2: then he goes, anyway, whom am I meant to have murdered?
Speaker 1: So you know, he's annoying, And then you know they.
Speaker 2: They're like melody Quinn and he goes, it doesn't ring
Speaker 2: a bell and then fuck, oh no. One of the
Speaker 2: science cops are carrying the computer out of the room
Speaker 2: and the other one's like fuck. And then we hear
Speaker 2: status like status, we hear static, weird noises, and then
Speaker 2: the hottie dork smiles and the science cop goes, it
Speaker 2: was a degaussing loop, a degassing loop. Listen, you got
Speaker 2: to make your best assumption. But it's it's a powerful
Speaker 2: magnetic strip and it wiped the whole drive.
Speaker 1: And that's why he's been so smug.
Speaker 2: He knew the moment that they walked out with the
Speaker 2: hard drive, it would all be this.
Speaker 3: Is the kind of stuff that I love learning about
Speaker 3: on U s few like I have always heard of these.
Speaker 3: I think about them all the time now when they
Speaker 3: go into different pedophiles houses and they're seizing comput I'm like, oh,
Speaker 3: be careful. I hope he doesn't have one of those
Speaker 3: rings that erases everything, like I this episode season six,
Speaker 3: and I think about it all the time in future
Speaker 3: episodes because who knew about this? Who knew that there
Speaker 3: was like some kind of special loop you could get
Speaker 3: that anytime someone passes it, it just wipes everything clean.
Speaker 2: They're educating, Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. The perverse
Speaker 2: pedophiles criminals. They're always pushing, pushing the edge of technology
Speaker 2: and it is incredible little go getters. So we're in
Speaker 2: cement room bars obviously Finn and Stabler are there. They
Speaker 2: show him the crime photos. He acts like it's so awful,
Speaker 2: he doesn't know, and then he sees Stabler's marine tattoo
Speaker 2: and he tries bonding, and then to Finny just goes,
Speaker 2: were you a gangbanger before you were a cop? So
Speaker 2: this kid is you know, microaggression. But also Finn does
Speaker 2: look crazy. He's wearing like a dark red gothic style
Speaker 2: button down and three of the buttons are on button.
Speaker 2: He looks like a vampire gangster for sure. And he's like,
Speaker 2: damn cool, you guys have killed people. I want to
Speaker 2: know what it's like to kill people. How does it feel?
Speaker 2: I only do it in the game. I've killed hundreds
Speaker 2: in the game. But you guys, you did it for real.
Speaker 2: And they're like, we know you did it for real too,
Speaker 2: so stop. And he's like, you know, I oh, it
Speaker 2: seems like he would be friends with Michael Pitt's character.
Speaker 2: We haven't done that episode on the show. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: I think these two would be sexy little friend. They're
Speaker 2: like murdered by the numbers energy, which is also yes.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, but this guy has like the flat affect
Speaker 3: that just like, oh, nothing bothers me, like like cocky, smug, gross,
Speaker 3: like I he like makes my skin crawl, this character.
Speaker 2: And he's a rich kid too, you know, yeah, getting
Speaker 2: Don Perry on at the fucking strip. Yeah, a stabler
Speaker 2: then goes but you won't know because you're gutless. You
Speaker 2: couldn't even face her. You had to use a car
Speaker 2: to knock down a woman. And they're just like making
Speaker 2: him feel like shit, and then they're like you snuck
Speaker 2: behind her to kick her. He scoffs, and Stablor goes,
Speaker 2: you're just this scared little punk. And so then Stabler
Speaker 2: like forces him up out of the chair and then
Speaker 2: kind of shoves them around with just his body, no arms,
Speaker 2: kind of like like shoulder shimming him against a wall.
Speaker 3: Yes, and their noses like almost touch, like he is
Speaker 3: so close talking him here, like I swear to god,
Speaker 3: their noses have like a second of contact.
Speaker 2: And you got to like and then he goes, you know,
Speaker 2: you got to stare them in the eyes. That's how
Speaker 2: I like it, so you could smell their fear. And
Speaker 2: the hot Doric is like stop, and Stabler says, we
Speaker 2: don't even need this little freak. We have a witness.
Speaker 2: And then the hatty goes, well she's lying, and they're like, well,
Speaker 2: how do you know what she said?
Speaker 1: Huh?
Speaker 2: And he goes, listen, it was Larry Tabbar And then
Speaker 2: we play the call and this guy is like shocked
Speaker 2: the call even like exists. Suddenly the smugness relaxes on
Speaker 2: his face and now Elliott has the smug smile and
Speaker 2: the guy goes, how did you get that? And then
Speaker 2: he starts screaming like it's Larry's fault.
Speaker 1: He made me do it. Larry made me do it.
Speaker 2: And right in the nick of time, we got a
Speaker 2: Barry Bostwick aka Oliver Gates walks in. Novak and Stalelor
Speaker 2: have a little chat. When Oliver pops out quick, he's
Speaker 2: gonna go with the mental disease or defect defense. Obviously
Speaker 2: the video games made him do it. Classic And you know,
Speaker 2: Larry is also an older man who got this hot
Speaker 2: young guy drunk, got him addicted to games, made him
Speaker 2: play for real. But you know, this guy the hot,
Speaker 2: he had no idea what he was doing. He didn't
Speaker 2: know the difference between reeal or fake. He's in a haze.
Speaker 2: But we'll see what the court decides. Right So, Novak
Speaker 2: and Craigan are talking like, ugh, video game stuff. You know,
Speaker 2: it's a hot issue right now, maybe it'll get the jury.
Speaker 1: What are we gonna do?
Speaker 2: But also, all of a sudden, the girl goes from
Speaker 2: having a public defender to a really good lawyer. And
Speaker 2: that's because Garrett's family paid for it. So this is
Speaker 2: a rich little kid plays video games with those little
Speaker 2: magnetic strips all day long, and a master manipulator. Very
Speaker 2: Beverly Hills Housewives, and so we do have an issue.
Speaker 1: So even though we.
Speaker 2: Like scared the guy with the tape and like we
Speaker 2: have the whole attack on camp at recorded, we can't
Speaker 2: use the tape.
Speaker 1: We can't use it in trial.
Speaker 2: It's only evidence like for the state, So we need
Speaker 2: actual evidence that they can use. So they have Larry
Speaker 2: in the video games, but that's it, and no one
Speaker 2: will let them have the tape, like I said, So
Speaker 2: they go to fight with the government, and the government
Speaker 2: guy is from Sex and the City. He's the guy
Speaker 2: that owned the nightclub. His name is William and with
Speaker 2: Samantha kept being like we will do this and will
Speaker 2: go here, and will go here, and then like ditches
Speaker 2: her and stands her up and then the server kisses
Speaker 2: her or whatever. So that's that episode. Novak is pissed.
Speaker 2: But we knew this going in that this wasn't gonna
Speaker 2: be evidence we can have. You know, the guy is
Speaker 2: not only a pimp but a terrorist, so it is
Speaker 2: what it is.
Speaker 1: So they need.
Speaker 2: Evidence to like figure this out since they can can't
Speaker 2: use the tape, and Bedie Wong's like, okay, I'll go
Speaker 2: play some site games with these guys and see if
Speaker 2: it's innocent pawnds or they're cold blooded liars. So we
Speaker 2: do a little back and forth for you know, they're
Speaker 2: both in orange jumpsuits, which I love, the girl and
Speaker 2: sexy guy. And the girl says she plays five to
Speaker 2: six hours a day. The most she's ever played is
Speaker 2: eighteen hours. The guy, he's just like kind of smart
Speaker 2: and smarty, so he's giving every answer that Huang wants,
Speaker 2: you know, like he's he's playing the game. And they're
Speaker 2: both turning it all on Larry. And the girl is
Speaker 2: so in love with Garrett and she's like, yeah, we
Speaker 2: have sex, like he's crazy about me.
Speaker 1: We're in love. And then it cuts to him going,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I've you know, I've.
Speaker 2: Had better sex, Like I don't really like her, and
Speaker 2: so this is very Bravo style editing. So shady Bedie
Speaker 2: Wong comes out into Stablers like this manipulative little prick.
Speaker 2: And they're like, oh, they fucking killed Larry. Now I
Speaker 2: think that they got him drunk, they you know, made
Speaker 2: him do this. And they're like, well, what about Luis
Speaker 2: And she goes, yeah, she's desperate and she's in love
Speaker 2: with him. So it doesn't matter. She'll do whatever he says.
Speaker 2: And we think this guy fucking he did some shit.
Speaker 2: Ambadie Wong is like he's a narcissist and he knows
Speaker 2: for sure the difference is seen right and wrong.
Speaker 1: He just doesn't care. Uh oh.
Speaker 2: Stabler is like asking questions about games and influence, probably
Speaker 2: thinking about his own son.
Speaker 1: You know, well, what's Dicky up to?
Speaker 2: And that then Gates walks in and he has an
Speaker 2: emotion to submit Garrett for a neuropsych exam and he
Speaker 2: you know, this guy volunteered to do a pet scan
Speaker 2: while he plays the computer game to prove brain stuff.
Speaker 2: YadA YadA, bullshit, bullshit, and we're even letting Huang do
Speaker 2: the test so they can't claim bias. Later in court,
Speaker 2: Garrett is not stressed at all. He's excited to play.
Speaker 2: He plays up to forty hours a week. Well yeah,
Speaker 2: he's daddy, pays the bills, of course he could play
Speaker 2: forty hours a week. And then he starts playing this
Speaker 2: blood game, right, so they're taking blood from him. He's
Speaker 2: wearing a lot like an MIT thing, not MIT, what
Speaker 2: is it called MRI. He's wearing MRI gear. He's in
Speaker 2: this big machine and the brain is scans are coming
Speaker 2: in bead Wong looks intense and dopaminees increased. But it's
Speaker 2: like that can't be a defense, are you kidding me?
Speaker 2: Like dopamine increases all the time. None of us are
Speaker 2: like running over women in the streets. I mean a
Speaker 2: lot of us are, but not not us right now,
Speaker 2: and we're filled with fucking dopamine. So now we're on
Speaker 2: the stand. It like cuts to Huang right on the jury,
Speaker 2: you know, telling the jury all his findings that this
Speaker 2: guy felt high and euphoric, and it's like he took
Speaker 2: a small dose of speed, and Casey's like, okay, so
Speaker 2: did it make him less able to control his actions?
Speaker 2: And Huang's like, absolutely not. To the contrary, He's enjoying
Speaker 2: all of it. It's an enjoyable activity, and any enjoyable
Speaker 2: activity would increase dopamine, like sports or chess. And it's like, okay,
Speaker 2: dork chess. That was your example on the stand.
Speaker 3: You know, when you get so fucking high playing chess.
Speaker 3: Oh so funny, that's what he thinks is going to
Speaker 3: relate to the jury.
Speaker 2: So now it's Gates turning goes wow, dopamine, Okay, isn't
Speaker 2: that what makes like cocaine and heroin addictive? So computer
Speaker 2: games are just like that, and Huang's like, no, nice try,
Speaker 2: But you know, Gates tries to do a little bullshit
Speaker 2: dancing to try to fuck up Huang.
Speaker 1: You know, he's doing lots of stuff.
Speaker 2: He's comparing the life of a military like military violence
Speaker 2: to a cartoon game, and Huang's like, that's stupid. War
Speaker 2: and video games do not affect the person the same.
Speaker 2: And now Gates is yelling and trying to like make
Speaker 2: it the game made him do it, but no one
Speaker 2: is buying it. So during this, Garrett's still in the
Speaker 2: defense table and he stares down Casey and now he's
Speaker 2: on the stand doing his own little tap dance. He's like,
Speaker 2: I regret it all. I'll never forgive myself. I'm so sad.
Speaker 2: They keep cutting to the girl and she's I don't
Speaker 2: know what she's doing, but she's sitting there and Novak's
Speaker 2: gonna go at him now, and Novak goes, so you
Speaker 2: thought this screaming and kicking, you really thought that was
Speaker 2: a game, Like, we don't buy it.
Speaker 1: How did you not know that was a real woman?
Speaker 2: And he's crying being like, I didn't know what was real,
Speaker 2: what was everything was so confusing the streets people, it's
Speaker 2: from the game. And you know the girl had a
Speaker 2: short skirt. Larry said, get her, get the hooker. And
Speaker 2: then he starts screaming like impersonating Larry, being like, go
Speaker 2: hit her, hit her, hit her, and he's while he's
Speaker 2: talking with his hands, he's miming playing the video game.
Speaker 2: He's tearing up. I wonder how often he practiced this,
Speaker 2: and then Novak goes, oh, so you always do what
Speaker 2: Larry says. He goes, I wish I was brave enough
Speaker 2: to stand up to him, but I wasn't. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: And we've see in little psychopaths that pretend the bullied
Speaker 2: is the bullier, you know what I mean. We saw
Speaker 2: it in Conscience, we saw Injustice and Novak. I believe
Speaker 2: in her. But Novak does seem shaken. She does she
Speaker 2: she doesn't have anything. She's shuffling papers around, and in
Speaker 2: the nick of times, Stable and Finn walk in. I
Speaker 2: am sure with new evidence, and the judge is actually tired.
Speaker 2: I think he has tickets to a Broadway show. He goes, hey, hey, guys,
Speaker 2: I'm done. Let's resume tomorrow. So she like zips to
Speaker 2: the guys so fast she runs on over and she's like,
Speaker 2: I am being killed here.
Speaker 1: What do you have? Which I think is insensitive when
Speaker 1: it's a murder trial.
Speaker 2: And and it's funny because this isn't even a sex
Speaker 2: crime for them to be involved in like she is.
Speaker 2: She wasn't like a sex worker and covered in jizz,
Speaker 2: but it was consensual.
Speaker 1: Come you know what I mean? Like, like the fact that.
Speaker 2: It has to be usive in this case is pretty funny. Yeah,
Speaker 2: not funny, not funny, but yeah, but you know they're
Speaker 2: better at it, so maybe thank god.
Speaker 1: So now we have Tawber's computer.
Speaker 2: Taru found a bunch of stuff with encrypted codes. But
Speaker 2: they're getting closer and closer, and they found out that
Speaker 2: there was something sent to Larry two hours before he
Speaker 2: jumped off that roof, and we need to find out
Speaker 2: what it was. And so they go to the little
Speaker 2: creep with the bunny rabbits, you know, the fuzzy hair man,
Speaker 2: and he screamed, I have nothing to do with this,
Speaker 2: and Novak's like, listen, once we encrypt this email that
Speaker 2: you sent, we know you sent it two hours before
Speaker 2: his death.
Speaker 1: Your toast so speak now. So he's like, oh fine.
Speaker 2: So he starts typing around getting everything back and unencrypting stuff,
Speaker 2: and he's so annoyed. He's like, I didn't know anyone
Speaker 2: would get hurt. Like he said, it was going to
Speaker 2: be just a joke. I'm a programmer, I'm not a killer.
Speaker 2: So the email video like pops up and it's very
Speaker 2: scott fully episode. What was that one called fucked up
Speaker 2: hammered hammered? Yeah, synonyms synonyms. So then so it's like
Speaker 2: video game footage, but it's using Larry's real face on
Speaker 2: the video game body doing the entire crime to the
Speaker 2: woman on the street. And then the voiceover is like,
Speaker 2: the cops are gonna get you.
Speaker 1: You did this.
Speaker 2: You can't hide Larry aw Larry, and so it's like,
Speaker 2: if this is the guy that's in charge, why would
Speaker 2: he be the one being taunted. So now we're in court.
Speaker 2: We watched it and yeah, it's fucking Larry, dude, you
Speaker 2: did this.
Speaker 1: So who's scared of who?
Speaker 2: And we have evidence that you gave the programmer one
Speaker 2: thousand dollars to Stu Davis to do this little computer thing,
Speaker 2: and the signature on the check this is old school,
Speaker 2: is Garrett's.
Speaker 1: So we have the check. You paid this man to
Speaker 1: do it.
Speaker 2: You sent this message and you know, like you're saying
Speaker 2: you didn't know what was real or not. But then
Speaker 2: you had all this admin, you did all this admin,
Speaker 2: you did chores, you did a to do list of
Speaker 2: little activities. So they're like, you wanted to push him
Speaker 2: over the edge? Is that why you sent it? And
Speaker 2: Garrett's like it was a joke, and they're like, oh, really,
Speaker 2: so kicking a woman to death is a game? And
Speaker 2: now you know, coursing someone to jump off a roof
Speaker 2: as a joke, fuck you? And she's like, you were
Speaker 2: scared Larry was going to go to the police, and
Speaker 2: so you prayed on him until he took his own life.
Speaker 2: And Novak is screaming, she's a star, and then she
Speaker 2: goes and you put LMAO at the end of the video.
Speaker 2: What does LMAO mean? And then yes, so laugh my
Speaker 2: ass off, you know, yes to admit it. So then
Speaker 2: it's like Larry's dead, Melody's dead, and you're laughing your
Speaker 2: ass off.
Speaker 1: And that sets him off. You're rolling on the floor laughing.
Speaker 2: And then he goes off his like nice sky routine.
Speaker 2: Everything he's trying to do to not be on the
Speaker 2: hook for this job all drops. He gets in Novak's
Speaker 2: face angrily and goes, you bet I am, and so
Speaker 2: that's not good. He basically said he's laughing at the deaths,
Speaker 2: and then he goes, because you're a joke and this
Speaker 2: whole damn thing is a joke. And they stare at
Speaker 2: each other for a while and she says nothing further.
Speaker 2: So then Gates is actually it's we jump to closing arguments,
Speaker 2: and Gates is doing a really bad job. Like you
Speaker 2: could tell he doesn't believe in it. It's not even
Speaker 2: worth the money of these video games. He's just like
Speaker 2: the video games made him do it. He's reading, he
Speaker 2: has his glasses on, he does he's he knows he's lost.
Speaker 2: It's pretty incredible acting because he's still trying, but you
Speaker 2: could tell he doesn't believe it in his heart and
Speaker 2: he hates this guy, like I just like loved this
Speaker 2: so much.
Speaker 1: And then Novak kills it. She kills it.
Speaker 2: In her closing argument. She's like, fuck these kids, they're bad.
Speaker 2: They knew what was up. And the girl is having
Speaker 2: a lot of feelings because obviously she's about to go
Speaker 2: to jail for a man like we say, don't do it,
Speaker 2: and just like yeah, they're they're both whatever. The jury
Speaker 2: guy he talks, he goes, defendant is guilty, the girl
Speaker 2: is also guilty. She cries, they're both remanded. Garrett looks
Speaker 2: at her with disgust and goes, oh, shut up, and
Speaker 2: then he goes, bang, bang, you're dead. And then they
Speaker 2: drag the crying girl out, and Garrett's laughing and goes,
Speaker 2: game over, you won to Novak And now Dicky's at
Speaker 2: the table he's playing a handheld games. Stabler you know,
Speaker 2: is like you come, don't play the game, and he's
Speaker 2: just hockey, So a hockey game he went to school.
Speaker 2: Leave the kid alone. It's like anytimes Stabler decides to
Speaker 2: be a parent, everyone has to drop everything that they're
Speaker 2: doing and suddenly run around this man who gives them
Speaker 2: no attention.
Speaker 3: Yeah, eat food, stop playing video games, leave them alone.
Speaker 2: So he's like, come on, let's play cards or scrabble,
Speaker 2: and they don't want to do that, and Dickie's like
Speaker 2: do you even want to play that?
Speaker 1: Like what do you? Shut up?
Speaker 2: And then Stabler goes, how about we talk and Dickie goes, okay,
Speaker 2: let's talk, and then it's silent because Stabler has nothing
Speaker 2: to say. And then that's like I said, let the
Speaker 2: kid play the hockey handheld game. He's had a tough
Speaker 2: day and he just looked at a dying woman. Helped
Speaker 2: you crack the case. There wouldn't even be a murder
Speaker 2: trial if it wasn't for this kid. I don't think
Speaker 2: they would have played together. They couldn't have done it
Speaker 2: without Dickie. And now he can't even unwind after a
Speaker 2: long day at the office. No, that's dick wolf baby,
Speaker 2: And yeah it's I don't it's not a classic episode,
Speaker 2: but there's twists.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's so wild that you've watched this one a lot.
Speaker 2: It's like such a blind spot for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like, I don't it's not like a favor anything.
Speaker 3: It's just I've seen it so many times. Like I
Speaker 3: remember his voice going sorry, she's play with us now
Speaker 3: or whatever, Like I remember all these things from it,
Speaker 3: and like Dicky being there and being like, yeah, it's
Speaker 3: like this, and like playing it for them and everything, Like,
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's got some classic elements, but let's
Speaker 3: get into the true crime of it all, shall we?
Speaker 3: The interesting thing is that six seasons later, in season twelve,
Speaker 3: they did do in the episode Bullseye, which we've covered,
Speaker 3: they had that couple that plays video games so much
Speaker 3: that they literally leave their daughter starving. Remember, and then
Speaker 3: we like researched the case in Korea or those people
Speaker 3: like so like show definitely like loves to talk about
Speaker 3: the video games of it all and everything. But it
Speaker 3: is interesting because this case happened right before the episode
Speaker 3: was made.
Speaker 1: Devin Moore was eighteen year.
Speaker 3: Old living in Alabama in June of two thousand and three,
Speaker 3: so like two years before this episode came out, less
Speaker 3: and year post nine to eleven if you were wondering, Yeah, yeah, yes,
Speaker 3: our usual countdown placing things in time against nine to eleven.
Speaker 3: So we're all just sort of getting our heads dropped
Speaker 3: around nine to eleven. It's that summer. He's just graduated
Speaker 3: high school. He's set to join the Air Force at
Speaker 3: the end of the summer. Random fact that's just in
Speaker 3: the information that his brother is Mookie Moore, a former
Speaker 3: NFL player.
Speaker 1: I don't think he was ever big, but he played
Speaker 1: on a few.
Speaker 3: Teams, but in the early morning hours of June seventh
Speaker 3: of two thousand and three, More was brought in by
Speaker 3: the police in this small town of Fayette, Alabama on
Speaker 3: suspicion of car theft. So this kid had no record,
Speaker 3: he had never been in trouble with the law. He
Speaker 3: is cooperating as an officer named Arnold Strickland is booking him. Suddenly,
Speaker 3: out of nowhere, he grabs Strickland's forty caliber glock gun
Speaker 3: shoots him twice, one shot to the head. Another officer
Speaker 3: named James crump Here's the shots, comes running over. Moore
Speaker 3: stops him in the hallway, shoots him three times, once
Speaker 3: in the head. Then he continues down the hall where
Speaker 3: he shoots a nine to one to one dispatcher named
Speaker 3: Ace Meeler five times, once in the head. I think
Speaker 3: that was kind of interesting that in the episode they
Speaker 3: showed us a nine one one dispatcher like it was
Speaker 3: they were never in danger and it's not the same thing.
Speaker 3: But we don't always get nine one one dispatchers, so
Speaker 3: I don't know. It was just something that felt like
Speaker 3: a match. And uh, then he grabbed the keys to
Speaker 3: a cop car and he bounced. He killed three men
Speaker 3: in less than a minute. This guy was just like
Speaker 3: boom boom boom boom boom boom, like just killed all
Speaker 3: these guys so quickly. And if this sounds like an
Speaker 3: action movie or a video game, it's because it basically is.
Speaker 3: Moore had purchased Grand Theft Auto Vice City at the
Speaker 3: age of seventeen and had been playing it NonStop four months.
Speaker 3: At this time, Grand Theft Auto is hugely popular. I
Speaker 3: mean you know that that's what intensity is based on
Speaker 3: his Grand Theft Auto. Whether or not they can say
Speaker 3: it or not, it definitely is. By two thousand and five,
Speaker 3: it had sold more than thirty five million copies and
Speaker 3: had worldwide sales of close to two billions. So the
Speaker 3: game is popular when and for some reason. We know
Speaker 3: a ton of comics who do voices on it, right,
Speaker 3: Like I feel like I've known so many comedians that
Speaker 3: do you do you know people they maybe just haven't
Speaker 3: mentioned it to you, but like we have a mutual
Speaker 3: I would say, for enemy, who's a voice in GTA,
Speaker 3: Like lots of people have done voices in GTA weirdly,
Speaker 3: but they'll just be like I think a girl at
Speaker 3: a store that's like hey, and then like that's their
Speaker 3: only line.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so when they caught Devin.
Speaker 3: Moore, he's they get him quickly, he confesses quickly.
Speaker 1: He said he killed the officers.
Speaker 3: Because he didn't want to go to jail, and he
Speaker 3: told authorities once he was caught. Quote, life is like
Speaker 3: a video game. Everybody's got to die sometime. So not great.
Speaker 3: The crime is exactly like a scene from GTA where
Speaker 3: a quote unquote street thug enters a police precinct and
Speaker 3: has to steal a uniform, free a convoy from jail,
Speaker 3: and escape by shooting police officers.
Speaker 1: And then he gets away in a squad car.
Speaker 3: And I will also say, this man's mug shot, it's
Speaker 3: like he's at a party. Like I've never seen a
Speaker 3: mug shot like this. He is grinning ear to ear,
Speaker 3: he is smising. It is like a cheerful mug shot.
Speaker 3: It's crazy. H He went to trial in two thousand
Speaker 3: and five. He pled not guilty, and the judge in
Speaker 3: the case would not let the defense bring forth evidence
Speaker 3: that grand theft auto had inspired his horrific crimes. Good
Speaker 3: and I'm so proud of that judge and his lawyer,
Speaker 3: Jim Standridge, tried to argue that he was suffering from
Speaker 3: PTSD and that he suffered emotional and physical abuse as
Speaker 3: a child at the hands of his father. He had
Speaker 3: been in and out of foster homes. He had had
Speaker 3: a really tough upbringing. But he was convicted and he
Speaker 3: was sentenced to die by lethal injection. But he is
Speaker 3: not dead. He is still on death row at Holman
Speaker 3: Correctional Facility in Alabama.
Speaker 1: And then in.
Speaker 3: Two thousand and five, basically right as this episode is
Speaker 3: coming out, there's a multimillion dollar lawsuit filed in our
Speaker 3: Labama against Take two Interactive. So instead of Top Tech
Speaker 3: or whatever it's called, it's Take two Interactive. The lawsuits
Speaker 3: filed against Take two, the creators of Grand Theft Auto,
Speaker 3: Sony Computer Entertainment America, Sony Corporation of America, Walmart, Game Stop,
Speaker 3: and Devin Moore the shooter allegend.
Speaker 1: And this is yeah, this is a lawsuit.
Speaker 3: So it's civil under Alabama's Mack manufacturer's Liability and wrongful
Speaker 3: Death statutes that Grand Theft Auto resulted in quote unquote
Speaker 3: copycat violence that caused the deaths of these three victims,
Speaker 3: and the suits sought damages against all the defendants in
Speaker 3: excess of six hundred thousand dollars and the case is
Speaker 3: called Strickland Versus Sony because Strickland was the name of
Speaker 3: the officer who's gunny took and his family I think
Speaker 3: was the first family to sign on, but eventually all
Speaker 3: three families signed on to the lawsuit of the victims.
Speaker 3: And this lawyer is named Jack Thompson, and he's a
Speaker 3: lawyer and a video game violence crusader, like that's his thing,
Speaker 3: and he brings the suit on behalf of Arnold Strickland's
Speaker 3: family and then eventually the other families. And Thompson told
Speaker 3: sixty minutes because they did a big sixty minutes did
Speaker 3: a big report that is in my sources of you know,
Speaker 3: like can video games.
Speaker 1: Spawn this kind of violence?
Speaker 3: And Thompson said, quote, what we're saying is that Devin
Speaker 3: Moore was in effect trained to do what he did.
Speaker 3: He was given a murder simulator, he bought it as
Speaker 3: a minor. He played it hundreds of hours, which is
Speaker 3: primarily a cop killing game. It's our theory that but
Speaker 3: for the video game training, he would not have done
Speaker 3: what he did.
Speaker 1: And sixty minutes also, they can't.
Speaker 2: I just don't like that they call playing video games training,
Speaker 2: Like it's not training, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Well, that's true, but let me this is like what
Speaker 3: So they also spoke to David Walsh, a child psychologist
Speaker 3: who authored co authored a study about violent video games
Speaker 3: and physical aggression, and he he talks about a lot
Speaker 3: of the stuff that I feel like I'm reading about
Speaker 3: right now when it comes to cell phones with kids,
Speaker 3: is like the teenage brain is not fully developed. What
Speaker 3: David Walsh told sixty Minutes was, quote, the impulse control
Speaker 3: center of the brain, the part of the brain that
Speaker 3: enables us to think ahead, consider consequences, manage urges. That's
Speaker 3: the part of the brain right behind our forehead, called
Speaker 3: the prefrontal cortex that's under construction during the teenage years.
Speaker 3: In fact, the wiring of that is not completed until
Speaker 3: the early twenties. And that's the end of his quote.
Speaker 3: But basically the idea is that the lack of impulse
Speaker 3: control alone, because like it's so, it's what they say
Speaker 3: on the show all the time. They're like, well a
Speaker 3: million other kids play this game, why are they going
Speaker 3: out and murdering people? And these experts say that the
Speaker 3: lack of impulse control, combined with other risk factors like
Speaker 3: having a traumatic childhood, coming from a broken home, he's
Speaker 3: in and out of foster care. Like these things combined
Speaker 3: is what can lead to criminal stuff. Walsh also said,
Speaker 3: so when a young man is with a developing brain,
Speaker 3: already angry, spends hours and hours and hours rehearsing violent acts,
Speaker 3: and then and he's put in a situation of emotional stress,
Speaker 3: there's a likelihood that he will literally go to that
Speaker 3: familiar pattern that's been wired repeatedly, perhaps thousands and thousands
Speaker 3: of times.
Speaker 1: So that's interesting. They actually got to the pre trial, which.
Speaker 3: A lot of places, a lot of times when anybody's
Speaker 3: tried to sew companies like this, it just gets dismissed
Speaker 3: pretty quickly.
Speaker 1: But they got to pre trial.
Speaker 3: But on July twenty ninth of two thousand and nine,
Speaker 3: so it's like four years later of this of this
Speaker 3: civil suit. The court granted summary judgment to take two.
Speaker 3: I did have to text my friend Eric, who is
Speaker 3: a lawyer, to ask him what summary judgment is. And
Speaker 3: it's essentially when you ask a judge to make a
Speaker 3: decision about the merits of the case before it goes
Speaker 3: to trial, and the judge can be like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: there's nothing. It's almost like asking for a bench trial.
Speaker 3: But usually you do a bench trial during the trial,
Speaker 3: and a summary judgment is something that happens before, so
Speaker 3: the judge can be like, yeah, this is a nothing burger,
Speaker 3: Like we can't you can't prove this case legally.
Speaker 1: What are we doing here? So that's essentially what happened.
Speaker 3: The judge he didn't throw it out, but he granted
Speaker 3: summary judgment to the take too, and so one family
Speaker 3: filed in a p but then the ruling was upheld
Speaker 3: and the case eventually kind of went nowhere. So that's
Speaker 3: where that's I think what it was mostly based on.
Speaker 1: There's some other there's.
Speaker 2: A couple other he ever made any statements from now
Speaker 2: that he's older, it's been a long time, Like, is
Speaker 2: there any update on.
Speaker 3: No, he's like thirty something. He's like thirty nine. Now
Speaker 3: I believe he's been in jail. He's still on death
Speaker 3: row but hasn't been executed. And thirty nine and in jail,
Speaker 3: and it's like, yeah, so it's such a scary crime,
Speaker 3: but it's like it does it does make me worry
Speaker 3: about like letting kids play video games. And like letting
Speaker 3: them have phones and all this stuff that when their
Speaker 3: brains are still like developing. But you know, uh, there's
Speaker 3: obviously a million cases where people are inspired by GTA
Speaker 3: and violent video games and stuff. Like there's another case
Speaker 3: called the Micah'sorner case called Tromo, Like I yeah, this
Speaker 3: game was huge. Yeah yeah yeah yeah, Like a teen
Speaker 3: in Wisconsin, Micah Zorner. He stole around hundred cars before
Speaker 3: he was caught and he claimed it was all inspired
Speaker 3: by GTA. That was just car theft. There was another
Speaker 3: this case is this case is crazy? I started researching
Speaker 3: this and people have this connected to this episode. But
Speaker 3: this actually happened like four years after the episode came out.
Speaker 3: Oh not not four years, two years after the episode
Speaker 3: came out. So but I'm just going to talk about
Speaker 3: it really quickly because it's wild. After this kid named
Speaker 3: Daniel Petrick, who was also called Danny. It was a
Speaker 3: sixteen year old in Ohio who, according to everybody, is
Speaker 3: a good kid, loves his parents. Okay, then he gets
Speaker 3: into a skiing accident and he gets a staff infection,
Speaker 3: which actually puts him at home for a year recovering
Speaker 3: from a really serious spinal injury, and during that recovery process,
Speaker 3: he gets introduced to the Halo games. Okay, Halo, I
Speaker 3: will say with kids, I've maybe set four. I played
Speaker 3: it once. It's like one of the only modern video
Speaker 3: games I've ever played. Like me, it goes Mario and
Speaker 3: then it goes one time playing Halo.
Speaker 1: That's it. I'm so not in the video game world
Speaker 1: at all.
Speaker 3: But Halo is a gay our games about an alien
Speaker 3: war and it's rated M for mature and Petrick's dad
Speaker 3: was not down with the video game violence. He told
Speaker 3: him he had to stop playing it or he had
Speaker 3: to leave the house. So he like would move to
Speaker 3: a friend's house for the weekend and he would play
Speaker 3: up to eighteen hours a day, barely stopping. I feel
Speaker 3: like that's crazy because that's in the episode, and it's
Speaker 3: the episode came out first. So he bought Halo three
Speaker 3: and when his dad found it that he out that
Speaker 3: he did that. He took it and he put it
Speaker 3: in a safe with two guns that he owned. Oops,
Speaker 3: Daniel found the key to the safe.
Speaker 1: Oh god, yes.
Speaker 3: A week after his dad took the game away, he
Speaker 3: found the key, took the game back.
Speaker 2: So scared of video games, and then put them with guns.
Speaker 2: I know, wouldn't you be more scared of the guns?
Speaker 2: This is so crazy? Yeah, yeah, or like, why does
Speaker 2: your kid know where the safe he is? Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: so bad.
Speaker 3: So a week after his dad took the game away,
Speaker 3: he got the key, took the game back, took one
Speaker 3: of the guns. At around seven o'clock on October twentieth,
Speaker 3: two thousand and seven, again, a full year and a
Speaker 3: half after this ssview episode has aired, heard he walks
Speaker 3: up behind his parents while they are sitting on the
Speaker 3: couch and said, would you close your eyes? I have
Speaker 3: a surprise for you, and he shot both of his
Speaker 3: parents and then he put the gun in his dad's
Speaker 3: hand to make it look like a murder suicide and said, hey, dad,
Speaker 3: here's your gun.
Speaker 1: Take it.
Speaker 3: His mom died, his dad somehow survived, and he got
Speaker 3: sentenced to life with the possibility of parole after.
Speaker 1: Twenty three years.
Speaker 3: So he's currently at the Grafton Correctional Institution and is
Speaker 3: eligible for parole in twenty thirty.
Speaker 1: So he'll be like he'll be like, yeah.
Speaker 3: Thirty nine, almost forty or something when he's elliptible for parole.
Speaker 3: So fucking crazy and that happened after the episode. So anyway,
Speaker 3: there's a ton of different Like some people were trying
Speaker 3: to link this to like natural Born Killers, but I
Speaker 3: wasn't really I don't really think it was natural Born
Speaker 3: Killers related. Oh no, sorry, not natural Born Killers. These
Speaker 3: this other couple that watched natural Born Killers a bunch
Speaker 3: of times. They went out and killed some people because
Speaker 3: of that. But I wanted to keep it more video
Speaker 3: game specific. So yeah, here we are, and that's that's that.
Speaker 3: I mean, what, yeah, it's it's not it's not great that,
Speaker 3: but that like it's like, I don't think a kid
Speaker 3: like that, someone who's already a fucking narcissist and like
Speaker 3: a malignant narcissist with probably psychopath tendencies, should be playing
Speaker 3: eighteen hours of video games a day, because then he
Speaker 3: is going to do something nuts. But no, guest, today,
Speaker 3: let's move on to our post mortem. Wow, little Dickie
Speaker 3: saving the day on this crime. Honestly, I want everybody
Speaker 3: to know that we did try to contact the actor
Speaker 3: who played Dickie, but he's no longer in the game,
Speaker 3: and uh he uh yeah, I don't know. He just
Speaker 3: wouldn't didn't want to come on the pod. But I uh,
Speaker 3: I think Dicky was the greatest adversary for Christopher Maloney
Speaker 3: besides rapist and murderers. In the first twelve seasons of
Speaker 3: that show. He was like the only person that he
Speaker 3: ever I mean, like Kathleen had like whatever, Kathleen, Yeah,
Speaker 3: Kathleen had some shit, but like, but Dicky was always
Speaker 3: like I hate you, like it was.
Speaker 2: He just saw through him. Like Dicky just was like,
Speaker 2: shut up, you loser.
Speaker 1: Am a cab.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Dicky was a cab except in the game where
Speaker 3: because Dicky's like I love.
Speaker 1: To kill sex workers with cars.
Speaker 2: I just can't believe that game really took off the
Speaker 2: way it did. It's like such an indictment of our society.
Speaker 2: I would say, right, like, oh, I can't wait to
Speaker 2: kill these hookers in this show.
Speaker 1: I mean in this case, it's weird. Yeah, and like,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's truly was one of the biggest games ever of
Speaker 2: all time, still is beloved, and it is about murdering
Speaker 2: people on the street and committing cracks.
Speaker 3: Because it's also just like it's so real, Like it's
Speaker 3: like you're going through a city and you're looking at
Speaker 3: human beings. It's not like Halo where I think you're
Speaker 3: shooting aliens or whatever and you're on like another planet
Speaker 3: or whatever, Like.
Speaker 1: You're not you like Doom. So I don't know what's doom.
Speaker 1: What happens in that game. It's fucked that way. Look
Speaker 1: up Doom PC.
Speaker 2: I played it on the PC, so well, now it's fatteristic.
Speaker 1: No, but that's what I mean.
Speaker 3: Like this is like this is like you're you could
Speaker 3: you wouldn't really be like when I get older, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna be an I'm going to shoot an alien with
Speaker 3: this like sodt off shotgun or whatever.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Like, it's not it's not real, like GTA is like real,
Speaker 3: you're driving a cool sports car, you're getting real money.
Speaker 3: You're like you're killing actual people. You're like you know,
Speaker 3: so it's just like so real. But you know, I
Speaker 3: think people should stick to the sims.
Speaker 1: I never well, I don't know, you know.
Speaker 2: I I loved the Simpsons game on and my phone,
Speaker 2: but then I spent five hundred dollars so I had
Speaker 2: I had to stop.
Speaker 1: I had to take it off my phone.
Speaker 2: But my community looked amazing, like I think one of
Speaker 2: the best I've ever seen.
Speaker 3: Oh your Simpsons game was like Sims where you were
Speaker 3: building like a little Simpsons like land.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you built the whole like you built Springfield, so
Speaker 2: like the Klicky Maar and then the parking lot and
Speaker 2: the flowers are on the parking lot, and all the
Speaker 2: restaurants on the boardwalk and like, and then all of
Speaker 2: them had little jobs, and then you'd put all of
Speaker 2: them and then you can like slowly earn through all
Speaker 2: of their jobs and get the characters. But if you
Speaker 2: spent real money, you could just buy any plant you
Speaker 2: want or whatever you want.
Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, fun, that's fun. I mean, I'm sorry
Speaker 3: that you had to, but I loved.
Speaker 1: When Luanne van Howen was in her little jacuzzi suit
Speaker 1: and it was just so cute. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3: Well, so look, guys, games are affecting people in different ways.
Speaker 3: You're either spending money you people, or you know, maybe
Speaker 3: you're fine have other devices.
Speaker 2: I stepped outside my building for what an hour today
Speaker 2: and boom, I bought a newtrol. But I only buy
Speaker 2: trolls with baby eyes, and they are rare and I
Speaker 2: can't believe I found And I told her, I go,
Speaker 2: I like the baby eyed ones.
Speaker 1: She goes I get it New York. Step out of
Speaker 1: your step right outside, you.
Speaker 3: Get a cup of coffee, you get a baby, baby
Speaker 3: eyed troll.
Speaker 1: There's nothing you can't find here. I am like sad.
Speaker 2: Well. The reason I was saying is because in the
Speaker 2: window yesterday the store was closed, but I saw it
Speaker 2: in the window.
Speaker 1: It was a stuffed Betty.
Speaker 2: Boop christmassed out and like holding a heart that said Noel.
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, I got to get that
Speaker 2: for a friend. Yeah, this is cute today. Gone, I go, gone,
Speaker 2: I go. Did someone buy it? She goes, it's vintage, babe.
Speaker 2: She's like, it goes fast. I'm like, oh shit, shit,
Speaker 2: you snooze, you lose on the boop. But she said
Speaker 2: that someone bought it for his girlfriend. I was like,
Speaker 2: all right, but I'll take the baby I troll. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm I am.
Speaker 3: I will miss not being able to like go to
Speaker 3: New York at all a little bit in the holiday season.
Speaker 3: I do, like, even though like I go home to
Speaker 3: always go into the city a little bit.
Speaker 2: You know, did you see that Betty Gilpin will be
Speaker 2: playing colas Sola's Park And oh Mary, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 1: I'm shocked.
Speaker 2: I mean she's talented, so I'm sure she'll kill it,
Speaker 2: and like she had to audition, so I know they
Speaker 2: needed may have a star to it. And I'm curious
Speaker 2: because Cole is so per like it's it's hard to imagine.
Speaker 2: I guess I'll say that I have faith, but it's
Speaker 2: hard to imagine.
Speaker 1: The part is so cold.
Speaker 3: But I sold it to Jared and he was like,
Speaker 3: Betty Gilpin is so talented and funny, like he worked
Speaker 3: with her on one thing and he like is obsessed
Speaker 3: with her, like how talented she is. He thinks she's
Speaker 3: so great. And I've liked her and stuff I've seen her,
Speaker 3: and I've never I guess I haven't seen her be
Speaker 3: like hilariously funny. I mean like she's dry, like she
Speaker 3: was very dry funny in like glow and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: And you're Jackie, but this could be her time to Shackie.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Yeah, she's a nurse forgot. Yeah, like
Speaker 3: her character on Nurse Jackie is like so funny. She's
Speaker 3: like a rich girl, like kind of dumb doctor, which
Speaker 3: is funny. But I'm interested, like to hear what people say.
Speaker 1: It's kind of cool. It is cool.
Speaker 2: And they did some cool press and yeah, yeah, well
Speaker 2: I'm glad the show will keep going on, Like that's
Speaker 2: that's exciting. Yeah, oh, you know, I do have something
Speaker 2: else to say that's not about the episode.
Speaker 1: Another Jean Benet.
Speaker 2: We don't need it, we don't need it. I put
Speaker 2: it on and I was just born. In the first
Speaker 2: ten minutes, I go, get me out of here.
Speaker 3: What what's it on? Is it on like Netflix or something? Yeah,
Speaker 3: there's a new Jean Benet.
Speaker 1: And it's like, if you guys don't have new evidence,
Speaker 1: what are we doing?
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: In the beginning, it's like and there's no better time
Speaker 2: to solve the crime. But now and it's like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, I'm over it. Like it's done, it's done.
Speaker 2: The mom's dead, Like it's done. ABC News says, progress
Speaker 2: being made. It's like, what do you guys talking about?
Speaker 3: Like the last documentary, the last documentary that I watched
Speaker 3: of it a few years ago was interesting because they
Speaker 3: recreated the whole scene. There was a bunch of stuff
Speaker 3: that was really interesting.
Speaker 1: They remember that one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like remember when they were like, oh, by the way,
Speaker 3: the DNA that was found in her underwear was DNA
Speaker 3: from a worker in Thailand. Where the underwear was made
Speaker 3: or something, or in Taiwan, Like sorry, I might be
Speaker 3: saying the wrong country, but like it's it's not the
Speaker 3: DNA of a criminal. Like it was found that the
Speaker 3: DNA in like the there was no like sexual element
Speaker 3: to her killing, and that was like new information, you know.
Speaker 3: So yeah, like so there was there was some new info.
Speaker 3: But now it's like how many years ago is that
Speaker 3: how you really found more info enough for like a
Speaker 3: it just feels like we keep trading on this poor
Speaker 3: little girl just because she was like a little beauty
Speaker 3: queen and like the little poster is shocking, you know.
Speaker 2: It's weird. It's weird that there's another one. Like I
Speaker 2: can't wait till one day the news as we've solved it.
Speaker 2: Happy to that and then you can make a documentary
Speaker 2: righting the case. Yeah, but I just am not into
Speaker 2: more and more about it.
Speaker 3: The thing is is like there's just like I mean
Speaker 3: what I'm like because it's like are you making it
Speaker 3: for perverts?
Speaker 1: Like are you making this for perverts?
Speaker 3: I know? But like every time I'm home for the holidays,
Speaker 3: I'm watching true crime shit with my family, so I
Speaker 3: can under I see why business wise, these companies are
Speaker 3: just pumping out more true crime docs for like the holidays.
Speaker 1: That's so fucked up, Like.
Speaker 3: That is the guard of the way it is, you know,
Speaker 3: like people are on Netflix, like that's when everybody was
Speaker 3: watching Making a Murderer was over the holidays, like when
Speaker 3: everybody like last year, well last holiday or maybe it
Speaker 3: was just the summer, and I was hold with my
Speaker 3: brothers when like two Lacey and what's the guy that
Speaker 3: you think that you you.
Speaker 1: Tell you dare Scott? No, No, what's his name?
Speaker 4: What?
Speaker 3: Scott Peterson? Like to Lazy Peterson? Scott Peterson? Two Casey
Speaker 3: Anthony's like the year before. You know, it's like everyone's
Speaker 3: just making warring docs too with like it's it's nuts.
Speaker 1: But I think, Jean Beney, we need to like give
Speaker 1: it a rest.
Speaker 2: It's done. I just solve it and then like and
Speaker 2: watch another thing. But like he and the dad, maybe
Speaker 2: the dad needs money. I mean I don't know, yeah, yeah, well,
Speaker 2: oh god, I mean I don't know. Isn't the working
Speaker 2: theory that her brother did it?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Do we need to keep like looking like it? Does
Speaker 3: the dad want people to keep looking into like his
Speaker 3: son possibly doing it.
Speaker 1: I don't know, no, because he could have flipped on
Speaker 1: his son a long time.
Speaker 3: Ago, right, But that's what I'm saying, Like, but doesn't
Speaker 3: the dad give consent for these docks or does he
Speaker 3: not have to?
Speaker 1: I don't know. No, he's in it. I saw him talking.
Speaker 1: Oh he's in it, That's what I mean.
Speaker 2: Like I started it and then I was like, I
Speaker 2: don't want this, and I've been, you know, on a
Speaker 2: King of the Hill thing, so I just put that.
Speaker 1: Back on nice. Well.
Speaker 3: I think the bottom line from today's episode is you
Speaker 3: can play video games, but just like relax, like we
Speaker 3: don't need to be playing like you know, forty hours
Speaker 3: in a row or whatever that shit is, Like, keep
Speaker 3: an eye, keep an eye on what your kids are playing,
Speaker 3: and in that vein for this week's What Would Sister
Speaker 3: Peg Do?
Speaker 2: But don't we want to, I say, because like I
Speaker 2: don't like when people shit on people that play video games,
Speaker 2: because it's like, you know, it's like watching too you know,
Speaker 2: any kind of hole.
Speaker 3: It's like anything moderation, right, like don't go too crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 3: But we for this week's what Would Sister Peg Do,
Speaker 3: which is our weekly segment where we direct you guys
Speaker 3: to more information or you know, organizations that can provide
Speaker 3: help about anything that comes up in our episodes. We
Speaker 3: wanted to point you this week to Gaming Addicts Anonymous.
Speaker 3: I do think gaming addiction is real. People might need
Speaker 3: help with it as much as they would for other
Speaker 3: vices or you know, like issues that they have with
Speaker 3: other things. So similar to AA groups, this organization is
Speaker 3: quote a fellowship of people who support each other in
Speaker 3: recovering from problems resulting from excessive gameplaying. So the only
Speaker 3: requirement for membership is a desire to stop video gaming.
Speaker 3: If you want to find a meeting or find out
Speaker 3: more information, head over to Gaming Addicts anonymous DOTG. Thank
Speaker 3: you for that, and I will obviously post that our
Speaker 3: in our show notes and it'll be in a story
Speaker 3: the day this episode comes out and saved forever in
Speaker 3: our WWSPD highlight.
Speaker 2: And next week we keep chugging on through Nationwide Manhunt
Speaker 2: Season seventeen, Episode fourteen, Get at it as always, thanks
Speaker 2: for listening, have an amazing holiday season. Sometime of rest
Speaker 2: or you know, overtime pay, whatever is happening for you
Speaker 2: these times, vacation, sunshine, snowy, you know, I hope it's
Speaker 2: safe shoveling whatever.
Speaker 3: Happy Holidays to all of you. We love you, We'll
Speaker 3: see Monica whatever you need.
Speaker 1: Bye.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 3: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 3: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 3: it That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot.
Speaker 2: Com, follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up
Speaker 2: Pod and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow
Speaker 2: us personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 3: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 3: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to our.
Speaker 3: Mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and
Speaker 3: to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly gen
Speaker 3: Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers
Speaker 3: Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at
Speaker 3: Exactly Right Media dot dun