1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of four, 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah hart Hunger. 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing position and blogger. On 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our 5 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode fifty one. We have 11 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: a special guest, Manusham, already on the podcast today. She'll 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: be talking all things tech and urban parenting and doing 13 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: the Note to Self podcast, writing board and brilliant all 14 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: sorts of wonderful stuff. So we're really looking forward to 15 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: talking with her later getting some tips for our kids 16 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: and tech as well. But we're recording this in mid 17 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: July or air late July. Summer is in full swing. 18 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: We've been doing lots of camp Sarah, how about you, 19 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: what are you doing on the camp front? Yeah, us too, 20 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: So you know, interestingly, when this air is on July 21 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: twenty fourth, will have been like we're almost done with 22 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: our summer by that point, which is craziness. But yeah, 23 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: we've been doing day camp for both big kids. We 24 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: kind of took the easy route and I put them 25 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: in the same camp for all summer, and I haven't 26 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: heard any complaints so far. So I'm hoping for simple 27 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: until they get older and start requesting a bunch of 28 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: different specialty camps. Because for now, it was nice not 29 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: to have to do anything elaborate in terms of piecing 30 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: together different weeks. I will I will say they offer 31 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: some sort of elective weeks, so that was nice. So 32 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: same camp, but I can put I put Annabel in 33 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: like hip hop dance week because she wanted to do that, 34 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: and cheerleading week, but same drop off, same pickup, same legiation. 35 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: That's a nice ad. We've had different specialty camps, and 36 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of there are a lot of drop off 37 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: and pick up logistics and you know, kind of shortens 38 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: the workday a little bit. I've been, you know, trying 39 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: to maintain a good positive mindset about you know, getting 40 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: to have time in the car with kids individually. But yeah, 41 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: the pickups and drop ups can be this like it's 42 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: car line for school, but like worse because you know, 43 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: it's not uh that is organized. Although this one camp 44 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: that my eight year old is in is very well 45 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: run in the sense of it's a long car line, 46 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: but they have like music playing and they have this 47 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: sort of choreographed thing of like moving the cars forward. 48 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 1: I mean, if you if you can't make it go fast, 49 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: I guess at least you can try to be fun 50 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: and like, you know, play loud Backstreet Boys or something 51 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: so funny. Yeah. Yeah, so we're dealing with that. The 52 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: little guy started camp this week. Oh my gosh, is 53 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,959 Speaker 1: this his first year? It is? He is just doing 54 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: a morning day camp at the preschool that he's going 55 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: to in the fall. So far, it's been mostly okay, 56 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: although I'm a little concern. I don't know. So the 57 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: first day he was like all gung ho and it 58 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 1: was great. This morning, when I dropped him off, he 59 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: was clinging to me. That was a little bit worrying 60 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: because it doesn't he's not real clinger type guy. I 61 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: was like, what happened, you know? But yesterday he actually 62 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: told me he had gotten a time out. I'm like, 63 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: oh my goodness. That he's kind of heartbreaking, heartbreaking. I mean, 64 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: I'm sure he deserved it, but like, like, I don't 65 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: think it was arbitrarily or overly harsh or anything. I'm 66 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: pretty sure it wasn't. But you know, yeah, he's he 67 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: needs to learn that when you are with big groups 68 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: of kids who are not your family, there are rules 69 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: and you have to follow them and there are probably 70 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: consequences if you don't. And I know it's a harsh 71 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: lesson when you're three, but this is how we civilize 72 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: people in the world. So true, Yeah, there we go. 73 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: Otherwise would all be locked in cages. I bet he's 74 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: I bet he's still enjoying his experience. Well, I think 75 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: he is too. He's definitely, you know, having popsicles, although 76 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: he was complaining that it was not the right color popsicle. 77 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: He really wanted green and he was getting orange and 78 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: then he got red and sort of frowned about this, 79 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: But then he actually said, you get what you get 80 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: and you don't get upset. So I assume that somebody 81 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: told him that that is the classic. It's very interesting. 82 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: I mean it is sort of a zen zen Zen 83 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: statement if you think about it. Yeah, yeah, like your 84 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: own reactivity to this doesn't really matter because you're gonna 85 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: get what You're gonna get what you get, and a 86 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: red popsicle is still good even if it's not great. 87 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. And you guys are planning, you know 88 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: you're you're in full on trip planning logistics, right, I'm like, yees. 89 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: So it definitely makes me think about your little photo, 90 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: your historic photo of going to the UK with like 91 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: two suitcases and five people. Yeah, ready for my list 92 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: of what we're bringing. Two car seats, one booster seat, 93 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: the snap ago for Genevieve's stroller, a travel crib, and 94 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: the ergo. And that's kind of minimal. I mean, I 95 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 1: think we're not gonna bring our like big stroller, although 96 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: I will say it's been a hero in prior trips 97 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: because it also serves as like a luggage caddy because 98 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: the double bob you can fit a bunch of suitcases. 99 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: So you're like, oh, I don't need your little wheelie thing. 100 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: I have my own, my own. I think we're gonna 101 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 1: leave it here, and I just I am looking forward 102 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: to the day my kids are older and you don't 103 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 1: need to bring such a coot. Yeah you're traveling. No, 104 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: there's a narrow window where you need none of that stuff, 105 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: but you need none of the teenage stuff. And we're 106 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: we're sort of reveling in that when we when we 107 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: have the big kids on on trips. Yeah, no traveling 108 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: with the travel crib. Oh my goodness. Yeah yeah, because 109 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: otherwise I'm relying. I mean, I guess my friend was like, Oh, 110 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: we're just gonna have our baby sleep in our bed. 111 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: I'm like that sounds terrible. Actually sound I had kids 112 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: like all night exactly exactly. You're never real CoA sleepers 113 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: with that. Well, this is gonna be a great episode. 114 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: We're looking forward to it. So we'll dive right into Manush. Well, 115 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: we are really excited to have Manush on the program today. 116 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: And before we introduce her, I think Sarah is particularly 117 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: excited to have her on Sarah And do you want 118 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: Sarah wanted to do her little fangirl moment here. Oh yeah, 119 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: I love fangirl moments. Oh good No, So I never 120 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: do this, but I totally have a blog, and I 121 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: was writing on the blog. I was like, I'm just guessed. 122 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: I'm really excited about So then people started like, y 123 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: is it? Is it? No? So when they find out 124 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 1: they'll be super excited because I've been listening to you. 125 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: Beyonce would be good, but I've been listening to you 126 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,799 Speaker 1: and your podcasts for like forever. I mean I listened 127 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 1: to it when it was New Tech City and then 128 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: I have of course hung on for a note to 129 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: self and actually, you, for some reason tend to be 130 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: this common topic of conversation of Thanksgiving because because my 131 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: brother in law lives in New York and he also 132 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: like loves your podcast, and we are very well your 133 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: podcast that you had. We are very different people, but 134 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: like you're our common ground, like, oh, we just love Manush. 135 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: So they can't talk politics, but they can talk that's 136 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: actually very interesting to me. Well, we'll continue that conversation offline, 137 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:51,359 Speaker 1: and I'm curious to know what he thinks of my 138 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: new podcast because I'm guessing that maybe he's not as 139 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: big of a fan. I don't know that he has 140 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: checked it out yet, but I will force him. It's okay, Yeah, 141 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: you've got a few months till Thanksgiving. Yeah, exactly. She 142 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: rehearsed our attack exactly, so we were super excited, and 143 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: Laura and I came up with a lot. We definitely 144 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: want you to talk all about your new podcast, which 145 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: is very exciting, but we also thought our listeners would 146 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: love to hear a little bit more of your very 147 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: interesting backstory and how you've managed it all, you know, 148 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: as a woman and as a mother as well. Yeah, 149 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: or not managed it or not? Okay, Lauren knows. Yeah. 150 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: I need your podcast probably more than anyone. So I 151 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: find it quite interesting that I'm on it. I do think, 152 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: like you know, we all have hacks to share those, 153 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: so so I'm excited to be here. Well great, Well, 154 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: why don't you tell us a little bit about your 155 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: career journey and also your your family situation. Yeah. So 156 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: my background is that I was a hardcore news producer, 157 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: breaking news producer and reporter for the BBC for Reuters, 158 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: and then I realized I had no life after nine 159 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: to eleven, and I quit running around the world and 160 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: of course met the man that I married six months later, 161 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: because you got to stop moving to meet someone. And 162 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: so now I am still a reporter journalist, but I 163 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: got into podcasts about Let's see twenty thirteen, twenty twelve, 164 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: so like five six years ago before they went sort 165 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: of mainstream. And we have two kids. We have an 166 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: eleven year old and an eight year old. And my 167 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: husband is also a journalist. He's a TV reporter, So 168 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: lots and lots of juggling, lots of juggling. But and 169 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 1: I did take you know, I took some off ramps 170 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: when I had my first kid and the second one too. 171 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: That sort of period was very, very very tough for me. 172 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 1: I did a ted talk and sort of talked about 173 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: like I had extremely like the first one was extremely colicky, 174 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: and it really rocked my world completely and made me 175 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: rethink what I wanted to do with my life, what 176 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: I wanted my focus to be on. That I didn't 177 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: want to do journalism, but that I really wanted it 178 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: to be creatively satisfying, intellectually satisfying, and that if I 179 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: was going to be away from my kids, which I 180 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: needed to be financially, but also that my brain needed 181 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: to be I needed to feel that it was worth 182 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: it that I was growing myself when I was away 183 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 1: from them. So yeah, so now I have a half 184 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: a block commute, which changes things. I just quit my 185 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: job at New York Public Radio two months ago to 186 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: start my own company with my former executive producer. She 187 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: and I jump ship together, and we are documenting the 188 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: entire experience on our new show, which is called Zigzag, 189 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: And part of that is she's divorced, she has a 190 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 1: six year old and a very long commute, and so 191 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: that is definitely one of the storylines in our new show. Yeah, 192 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: and you know, we both read your book Bored and Brilliant, 193 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:01,719 Speaker 1: and it's interesting you talk about the your oldest being 194 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: really colicy, because part of what inspired your board and 195 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,719 Speaker 1: Brilliant is all those long walks you took around New 196 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: York his little tummy being unable to do anything else. 197 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: How did that all play out? Yeah, So the way 198 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: it played out was this was pre smartphone. I can't 199 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: even believe it so eleven years ago exactly, because my 200 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: son and the iPhone were born both in June of 201 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: two thousand and seven. But I didn't have a smartphone. 202 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,719 Speaker 1: Most of us didn't because actually, yesterday, Nerdy Fact for you, 203 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: was the ten year anniversary of the App Store, which 204 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: is kind of interesting. So in any case, this kid 205 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: would not sleep unless he was moving at all times. 206 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 1: So I basically walked, putting in about ten to fifteen 207 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: miles a day walking, and I only had a flip phone. 208 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: But also like the minute you stopped, he would start screaming. 209 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: And so you get to that point you know where 210 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: you are irrational, You know this place right where you 211 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: haven't slept, and you can't be like, well, you know, 212 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: maybe I should stop because then maybe he'll get used 213 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: to screaming, and then maybe I'll get used to his 214 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: scream I don't know, it just we spiraled into each other. 215 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: But what happened was all those hours of walking was 216 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: really when I started to I didn't know it at 217 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: the time, but when you allow when I was bored 218 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: out of my mind, when you are bored, you and 219 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: you allow your mind to space out, Essentially what you 220 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: do is you ignite a network in your brain. This 221 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,079 Speaker 1: is research that I went on to do five years later. 222 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: And you ignite the default mode in your brain. And 223 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: then the default mode you do your most creative thinking, 224 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: You do problem solving. You do something that I had 225 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: never heard of called autobiographical planning. This is where you 226 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: look back at your life, you take note of the 227 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: highs and the lows, and then you look forward and 228 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: you figure out, well, where am I going to go next? 229 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: You tell yourself the story of you. So actually all 230 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: that walking was extremely important work, and that was when 231 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: I just sort of started to plan and plot and 232 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: figure out, you know, how I was going to rise 233 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: like a phoenix from the ashes of my colicky mess. 234 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: To be clear, it took years to get out of 235 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: that hole. And you know, and then I had another kid, 236 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: so you get right. She wasn't as bad, but you 237 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: were probably a little bit more prepared for it, a 238 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: little more seasoned. Well, I got more help, that's fore. Yeah, 239 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: although there's that too, yeah, well, and so that's part 240 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: of it too. I mean the logistics of you know, 241 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: having this job with the public radio and having the 242 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,719 Speaker 1: two kids. So minush. You know, I've I've asked you 243 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: about your logistics when I've interviewed you in the past, 244 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: but our listeners don't know that. And I know you've 245 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: you've structured your life in interesting ways and your work 246 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: life to try to make it work with your your 247 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: two kids and your busy public radio schedule. So why 248 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: don't you talk about what what that set up has 249 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: been and how. Yeah, so it's changed because I quit 250 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: my job and I still in my own company, and 251 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: so in some ways that's great because now I no 252 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: longer have to go into Manhattan. I live in Brooklyn 253 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: and I joined a co working space which is one 254 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: block away from my house, so the commute time is 255 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: rad but I get I think. A couple of things 256 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: that I've done is Fridays. I always do school pickup 257 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: on Fridays. I feel like there's just I need one 258 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: day where I see what's going on on the playground. 259 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: I look the teachers in the eye just sort of 260 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: get a sense of what's going on. And I have 261 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: to admit Fridays are the days that usually my youngest, 262 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: my daughter falls apart. She just I think she's been 263 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: keeping it together all week and she just collapses into 264 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: a puddle. So I've kind of have to steal myself 265 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: for it. We don't do a lot after I do 266 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: school pickup, but in any case, I try to make 267 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: sure that I'm there. The one secret weapon I have had, 268 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: which really has given me a very unfair advantage is 269 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: my mother. Since my son, who's now eleven, was born, 270 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: she has come and spent two nights a week with us, 271 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: and that has meant that I know I can work late, 272 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: or I know at least one of those nights if 273 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: there's a work event, I can go without having to 274 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: deal with a babysitter and all the rest of it, 275 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: I can be a little bit more flexible. And that 276 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: really when my kids were newborns, or not newborns but babies, 277 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: that meant that there were two days a week that 278 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: I worked. We didn't have a nanny at first or 279 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: a babysitter so until they were in school, So that 280 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: has I mean for people who don't have family around, 281 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: I tip my hat to you. It is incredibly hard. 282 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,119 Speaker 1: So the one thing that I do have a disadvantage 283 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: of is that my husband is perpetually on call, so 284 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: he never knows when he'll have to leave in the morning, 285 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: and he'll never know when he'll be home at night, 286 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: so every night we kind of wait to see what's 287 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: going on. He covers politics, so those two things kind 288 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: of balance out. Since since I've been more successful and 289 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: since I've written the book, like, the one thing that 290 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: I have been doing more of is traveling, and Laura, 291 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: I'm always curious to hear like you know, as someone 292 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: who also just had a book out, like how did 293 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: you handle like traveling for your book and giving talks 294 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: and all those things. I find that I love being away, 295 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: but the scheduling is so stressful. Yeah, it is. I mean, 296 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: and when you have little kids. But that's that's the 297 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: thing of having a good nanny who can deal with 298 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: those logistics, right, you know, that's when you don't have 299 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: your family nearby, That's that's what you wind up doing. 300 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: I'm also curious about like the whole urban parenting things 301 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: book and I have kind of not interesting. Yeah, in life, 302 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: what do you think there are any particular challenges of 303 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: having stayed in the city or you know, the trade 304 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: offs in that versus Yeah, people sort of fleet to 305 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: New Jersey by the time they do well. My kids 306 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: walk to school, which has been awesome. They go to 307 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: the local public school. It's three blocks away. It's great. 308 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: Is that why you have your house where it is? 309 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah. Every decision that anybody makes 310 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 1: here is a real estate decision based on school district. 311 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: And it's it was either like we could you know, yeah, 312 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: it was a it's a calculation that everybody makes. Like, 313 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: logistics are totally underrated. People love to use like sort 314 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: of passion and where you really feel like you belong, 315 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: but like you get everything within a really small square 316 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: radius and that makes a huge difference in life. I 317 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: think that is so true. And I think about my 318 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: kids what their life is like. It's like they live 319 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: in a little village. You know. Brooklyn is really, in 320 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: many ways just a little series of villages, and so 321 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: we happen to live in a village where it has 322 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: a very big Italian presence, and there are lots of 323 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: little Italian stores and specialty gourmet shops. There's also a 324 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: lot of in the last couple of years, a lot 325 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: of hipsters and coffee shops. But their world is quite small, 326 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: you know. They they walk to school, and they walk 327 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: to the playground, and sometimes they take the subway, but 328 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: not that regularly. They probably do it most with like 329 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: school trips and stuff. I will say, on the downside, 330 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: I have two pretty high strung kids who I think, well, uh, 331 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: you know, apple to them all far from the I 332 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: was gonna say that there may be genetics there. So 333 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 1: I think all of us would benefit from having a 334 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: little more nature in our lives, like I do think 335 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: like I was seeing like at the end of school, 336 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: I was like, I think my kid just needs to 337 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: like lie down by a stream the like half an hour, 338 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 1: do you know, what I mean, just the there's not 339 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 1: a lot of decompression. Yeah, and the East River isn't 340 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: really that stream. We actually live next to the Guanas, 341 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: so it's super fun enough stream. Yeah. So, you know, 342 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: on the one hand, like my kids really appreciate good food. 343 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: They you know, they I think are exposed to all 344 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: kinds of different people. The school they go to is 345 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 1: extremely diverse, and all those things are wonderful. But I 346 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: do think the noise and the rush rush rush is exhausting. 347 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: I find it exhausting. So it's a always balance. Yes, 348 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: Now speaking of things that are I was going to 349 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: say challenging for kids, you know, I wanted to pivot 350 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: to your technology experts. Yes, that's what I was going 351 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: to ask about as well. This is a I think 352 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: something our listeners are super interested in, and you are 353 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: in the perfect position to discuss your life. Yeah. Yeah, 354 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: eleven year old is your oldest. That's probably really becoming 355 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: an issue. Like starting, it is starting, And so as 356 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: someone who has covered technology as a as a straightforward reporter, 357 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: you know, very much like here's what's happening in the 358 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: stock market and all those things, and then transitioning into 359 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: looking at how technology has changed society, how it's affected 360 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: our basic cultural things that we believe in, our ethics, 361 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: the way that we fall in love, the way that 362 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: we parent, all of those things. You know, I have 363 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: felt as though, like, my poor kids are my little laboratory, right. 364 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,959 Speaker 1: But what I think I was early too was an 365 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: understanding of just how powerful these our devices are when 366 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: it comes to well grabbing our attention. The attention economy 367 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: was something that I sort of helped get people talking about, 368 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 1: and so I have been you know, I also feel 369 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,959 Speaker 1: conflicted because, on the one hand, I really do believe 370 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: that the reason I was able to go back to 371 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: work as fast and furiously as I was was because 372 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: of the smartphone. I was able to coordinate, you know, 373 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: four lives, five lives on the go, and I am 374 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: grateful to that. I think many working mothers, well all 375 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: mothers are working mothers, but many of us find that, like, 376 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: there's no way you could make it all happen without 377 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: the smartphone. So I see both sides, and in terms 378 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: of like habits for my kids, I mean, like, I 379 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: know why my kid is grouchy after I've asked him 380 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: to turn off the iPad because he's had his half hour. 381 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,199 Speaker 1: It's hard for them to. My kid has trouble transitioning 382 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 1: to begin with. So any kid is struggling to transition 383 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: when they've been when they're doing something on an iPad 384 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: that is stimulating them. And for multiple reasons. For because 385 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: the business model of probably the app is built on 386 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: keeping them glued to it, because of the design of 387 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 1: the way that the games are those sons do let 388 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: them play two DUTs? Oh hell no, no, no, no, 389 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: Two DUTs your kryptonite, My kryptonite. It still is. I 390 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: but that's funny. I haven't played it since I started 391 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: my company. Isn't that interesting? Really? Well, I'm scratching some 392 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: sort of psychic it's actually that is true. Wow, okay, 393 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: breakthrough here. I just want my kids to be lud Eites, 394 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: and I don't want them to feel like you know, 395 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: I know those kids, remember, like those kids who weren't 396 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: allowed to watch TV and then they came over to 397 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: your house and all they wanted to do is watch TV. Like, 398 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: I do not want my kids to be like that. 399 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: But I also like have realized, like it is my 400 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: responsibility the age that they are right now, to put 401 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: parameters around it. And some parents don't need to do that. 402 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: I think every kid is so different and all of 403 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: the ways that these devices play to us is so different. 404 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 1: They are very personalized, right, Like It's not like with 405 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: TV it's either on or off. It is every device 406 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: is set up to be specifically attractive to you. And 407 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: So what I'm trying to do and what I certainly 408 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: try to discuss with all the parents that I give 409 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: talks to, is this idea of not shaming or shaking 410 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: your finger or anything like that, but having like a 411 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: conversation like, huh, why do you think it's like? Why 412 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 1: do you think that that has so many points there? 413 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 1: What happens when you spend more time on it? Do 414 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: you get rewarded with you know, sort of breaking it 415 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 1: down depending on the age of your child. Why you 416 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: feel this way towards it? I sat in on an 417 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 1: amazing eighth grade class. The teacher is using the book, 418 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: and I hear from a lot of teachers who use 419 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: the board and brilliant book as a way to you know, 420 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: externalize the conversation about how technology changes our behavior so 421 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: they don't have to be the one saying put it away. 422 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,719 Speaker 1: They use the book as a like, let's look at 423 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: chapter five, like, why let's talk about this idea of 424 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: advertising and targeted advertising and how that has she's calling 425 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: it the intention economy. What do you think that is? Like, so, 426 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 1: I think you know kids are super smart, they don't 427 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: like part of computer, computer science or digital literacy is 428 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: more than just learning to code or how to identify 429 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 1: a source. It's about understanding the psychology, the neuroscience, the design, 430 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: the business behind the technology, and sort of being able 431 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 1: to also check in with yourself, like why do you 432 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: feel yucky after you've spent three hours on Instagram? You know, 433 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: let's talk about it. So so true, we all feel 434 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: lucky after right, I know, although it's yeah, and like 435 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: what you were saying, kids are very different. I mean 436 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 1: we just got the eleven year old phone. Which kind 437 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: did you get? Well, it's it's like an older iPhone 438 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: and we didn't get him the unlimited data, so he 439 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: has to kind of economize on it, which has been 440 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: an interesting experience for him. And I asked why why eleven? 441 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: Like why this moment for you? Because he's starting middle 442 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: school and so that's pretty much what a lot of 443 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: the parents that we respect had done. I know, there's 444 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: that whole wait until eighth, although I swear it's just 445 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: because weight and aid rhyme. Yeah, No, I think you're 446 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 1: right about that. I mean, if the words seven, if 447 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: they'd come up with something that rhyme was seven, do that. 448 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: It's not because it's like research and pure reviewed journals, 449 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: because there isn't as much. That's a new phenomenon. But anyway, well, 450 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: we're going to get one because my kid, you know, 451 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: he's gonna go to middle school too, and he's gonna 452 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: have to ride the subway by himself. Oh, I would 453 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 1: totally get again to ride the subway by himself. Yeah, 454 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: I mean what else are you going to do? Like 455 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: totally he has to ask the crazy stranger for their phone. 456 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: I mean that's not better, but shout out too. I 457 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: think it's fatherly or there's a lot of places actually 458 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: that have good lists of dumber phones. Yeah, and so 459 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 1: I don't want to get him something that has games 460 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: on it because I think I love the dumb phone idea. Yeah, 461 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: I think that's the route we make up. My husband 462 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: is obsessed with actually like light phones and like he 463 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: actually himself he's a surgeon, and his phone is like 464 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: this one hundred dollars beater phone that he's very proud 465 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 1: of that it doesn't work well, so it's not addicting. 466 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 1: It's an interesting, uh backwards way of doing this, but 467 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 1: he can get texts and yeah, and his most important 468 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: work is it has nothing to do with the phone, right, 469 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: so exactly, So he likes the idea that he can't. 470 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: But then sometimes he'll take videos of the kids and 471 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: it looks like it's from like two thousand and three, 472 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: and I'm like, really, we didn't even two thousand and three, Yes, exactly, exactly. Well, 473 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: so tell us about you your new and our listeners 474 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: as well about your your new project, because this is 475 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: very exciting. Yeah, yeah, journey. So I am not hosting 476 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,360 Speaker 1: Note to Self anymore, although I do hope to continue 477 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: to do I know, I know that's so sad. Well, 478 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: maybe you'll have to revive some of those forms, but 479 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 1: for now. So my executive producer, also a mom, she 480 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 1: and I decided we wanted to do our own thing. 481 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: We wanted to have editorial and financial ownership. That was 482 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: really important to us. I think it was a little 483 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: bit of the me too moment that made us think like, wait, 484 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: maybe we could do this ourselves, and so as we 485 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 1: started talking to people, we got an offer a grant 486 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: essentially from a startup that is using the blockchain to 487 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: reimagine how journalism gets paid for in this day and age. 488 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: And it is an extremely odd and exciting experiment that 489 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,479 Speaker 1: we have joined. It is called Civil. So what Civil 490 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: has done is they've identified twenty I think there's twenty 491 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: of us start up little many people who want at 492 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: little mini media empires, and we are the proving ground 493 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 1: for this concept for them, which is to build an 494 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: online ecosystem of websites that to regular people will just 495 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: look like regular news websites. But on the back end, 496 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: if you want to join us, you can buy into 497 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: what's called a token economy, where there will be no 498 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 1: advertising on these websites because they will be supported by 499 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: readers and by essentially a cryptocurrency, which is creating a 500 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: means for people to vote and take part in governance 501 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: of what they say will be an entirely new kind 502 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: of ethical, verified journalism ecosystem. It is confusing to explain, 503 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: but that is what we are unpacking on the podcast 504 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: in our through our very personal stories. As gonna say, 505 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: there's a very human elements. Even as you're explaining all 506 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: this stuff. The cool thing to me is like hearing 507 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: you guys as people going through it and the anguish 508 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: of starting something new and charting into you know, heading 509 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: into uncertain territory, especial when you have families and people 510 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: counting on you. It's really thank you. Yeah, I mean 511 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: you hear a lot of me and Jen leaving. You know, 512 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: it's a weird mix of like our voice memos to 513 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: each other and like conversations like you hear me and 514 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: my husband riding to the airport as we're jetting off 515 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: in different directions, But you also hear us like trying 516 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: to understand this. You know, that's my thing, Like, let's 517 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: try to understand how this new technology works. I am 518 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: not a techee. I cannot code, but I really want to. 519 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 1: I think I need to help myself and other people 520 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: understand the basics so that we can make sure our 521 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 1: technology works to improve our lives. Like you know, Silicon 522 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: Valley has this thing like, oh, tech is not inherently 523 00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: good or bad, and that's just not true. Technology sometimes 524 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: is amazing. It connects us to people and information, but 525 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 1: other times it is absolutely bad. We have seen what 526 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: happened with Cambridge Analytica and the ability for these big 527 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: social media platforms to siphon up all of our private data. 528 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: And so I think we're at this point where the 529 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: consumer needs to be not just aware, but voice their opinion. 530 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: And so for me, going out on my own was 531 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: a chance to sort of look for solutions to some 532 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: of these technological problems, not just report on the problems. 533 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: I want to be part of figuring it out, fixing 534 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 1: it making. You know, the Internet has so much wonderful promise, 535 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: and I see that this blockchain technology also could have 536 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: so much promise if we get the right people involved. 537 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: So I want to be part of that. Well that 538 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: sounds really cool, totally cool. Well, so Manish, we always 539 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: do a love of the Week. We're hoping you can 540 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: join us for this episode. This part of our episode 541 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:58,239 Speaker 1: here if our technology keeps working. But hopefully when our 542 00:28:58,280 --> 00:28:59,959 Speaker 1: listeners are listening to this they will have heard us 543 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: Seamless and Lovely podcast. We've had some issues with three 544 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: moms rolling with the punches. Rolling with the punches here. Yeah, 545 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: we always discuss something that we're we're loving this week. 546 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: So mine mine is tech related. I guess this is. 547 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: But it's a low tech thing. Part of the tech 548 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: which is I lost I lost my iPhone charger, right 549 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: so or somebody took it, which happened more likely, and 550 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: I needed to buy a replacement one. So I bought 551 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: one with a much longer cord. And it is like 552 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: life changing all I do that. Actually, well it's it's 553 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: you know, not made by Apple. It's somebody's you know, 554 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: thing they're selling on Amazon. But the cord is long 555 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: enough that I can like sit in a chair and 556 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: it can be charging at the same time. I mean, 557 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: it's the little things, isn't it. Laura, My god, Yeah, 558 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: so I'm not like hovered next to an outlet as 559 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: I'm trying to do stuff while my friendly started. Awesome, 560 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: it is awesome, It is okay. Can I just say like, 561 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: I stayed at this extremely fancy hotel in pala Alto, 562 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: and when I came back from dinner, they you knew. 563 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is what sancy means. In 564 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: pala Alto. They had taken all my chords and wrapped 565 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: them with special velcrop, special velcrow. Yeah, and I was like, 566 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: this is living the life when it comes around and 567 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: wraps exactly. Yeah, well that's something sure. Probably some people 568 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: come with like fifty different chords and like that's the 569 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,239 Speaker 1: whole thing, you know, forget slippers or like you know, 570 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: bas chocolate. Yeah, but do you want to have that 571 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: be your love of the week, min Is, Yeah, that 572 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: would be my love of the week. Your love of 573 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: the week, Okay, And Sarah, how about my aspiration of 574 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: the week? Aspiration? Yeah, exactly. Well I'll make mine partially 575 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: tech and partially a nod to Laura because she did 576 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: this savoring challenge on her blog as inspired by her book, 577 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: and I was totally savoring the ability to just stream 578 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: and then play electronically in my house music for like 579 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: hours on end by myself the other day. It was 580 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: so great and I played like all of Amy Man's catalog, 581 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: like in a row, which started at like nineteen ninety 582 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: three and went to now and it was just awesome. 583 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: So yeah, technology, and yeah, for Laura's idea, I love that, 584 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: like listening to somebody's whole catalog right, like you could 585 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: hear the thing. Yeah, it felt so oddly indulgent, like yeah, definitely, yeah, 586 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: those are great. Yeah, I know, savoring. Savoring is good 587 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: I'm a savor Laura. You really I think you and 588 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: I I did one of those what do you call them? 589 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: Were you like inventory? I guess of my life where 590 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: I kept track of all my hours? Oh? Yeah, attacked you? 591 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: Oh you did tracking? Yeah. It was very eye opening. 592 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: And what I realized was the reason you were like, 593 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: but you're not working really more than like forty to 594 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: forty four hours a week. And I was like, why 595 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: do I feel so insanely busy? And I realized was 596 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: it was the switching. And I so that really plays 597 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: into some of my work too, is that this the 598 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: constant switching that we do just exhausts us, which was 599 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: why I think I felt so tired. So now I'm 600 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: really trying to do things in blocks of time, and 601 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: I find that I breathe easier and it even it 602 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: feels it feels more productive as well. Well. Wonderful well minters, 603 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,239 Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on. This has been 604 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 1: a great fun. Oh it's great. Thank you so much 605 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: for having me. And when you when you want to, 606 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: maybe you want to call them the Zigzag and tell 607 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: people about your show please, we'd love to. We'd love to. Yeah, 608 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: thank you so much both for having me. Well, that 609 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: was great. So this brings us to our Q and 610 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: a part of the podcast. So this question we both 611 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: like because it deals with this whole Gretchen Ruben rubric 612 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: of upholders, obligers, rebels, et cetera. So our listener writes 613 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: in and says, I have two young kids, work full 614 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: time from home for a large corporation. My husband works 615 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: full time in an office. We have full time childcare 616 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: for our kids. Objectively speaking, my job is not that demanding. 617 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: The hours are manageable. It's flexible, especially since I work 618 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: from home. I enjoy the work. I most certainly enjoy 619 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: the financial opportunities. She has no current ambitions for any 620 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: kind of promotion or advancement. However, I am a textbook 621 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: obliger who leans upholder. I like to do things well 622 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: and do things right. This aspect of my personality has 623 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: become a bit of a liability as I've become a 624 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: working mom. Well parenthetically, it was before too, but it's 625 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: been magnified. I can tend toward feeling overwhelmed, and I 626 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: use up a significant amount of mental energy on work 627 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: related stress, even though I can recognize in hindsight that 628 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: much of the pressure and stress is my own creation. 629 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: Here's where my question comes in. Your frequent argument about 630 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: the inefficiency of going part time or inefficacy of going 631 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: part time in a role that's already very flexible brings 632 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: true to me, hours are variable and nebulous, and as 633 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: long as the work gets done, no one really cares 634 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: or is tracking how many hours I'm working. You've used 635 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 1: the line before that one could just slack a bit 636 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: in this situation, especially if the alternative to doing that 637 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: is quitting completely. Again, in theory, I get it and 638 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: completely agree with it. In practice, I find it challenging. 639 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 1: So my question, aside from changing my entire personality, any 640 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: specific tactical tips for internalizing and acting on the just 641 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: slack mantra when you're predisposed to wanting to cross every 642 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,280 Speaker 1: T and dot every I at work and it creates 643 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: added stress. Oh, so what do you think? I love 644 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,359 Speaker 1: this question because it did speak to me a little 645 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: bit as someone who kind of weighed the pros and 646 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,359 Speaker 1: cons in my situation and did decide to go part time, 647 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: even though I also get what Laura is saying. So 648 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: I mean, one option is that you can decide that 649 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: for you. It doesn't make sense. However, I think that 650 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,760 Speaker 1: my job may be less suited to a more slack 651 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: or elastic type of situation than others, just because when 652 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,919 Speaker 1: you have patient care in the mix, unless you are 653 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 1: officially and fully off, you're sort of always going to 654 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 1: be vulnerable to your patients needing you in some fashion. 655 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: And therefore I really wanted the ability to completely turn 656 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 1: off often go off the grid during certain days, and 657 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: that wouldn't have been feasible without an official part time. 658 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: And since that's not your situation, I do think you 659 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: have a little bit more leeway than I potentially do. 660 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: So my ideas for you were a couple. So number one, 661 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 1: it sounds like you really like structure and you really 662 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 1: like goal setting. So perhaps there's some way that you 663 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: can think of monthly or weekly and even on a 664 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: micro level, daily goals that you know that you want 665 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: to get these things done, and then beyond that you're finished. 666 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: So you still have the ability to, you know, cross 667 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 1: the eyes and teas that matter because you've sort of 668 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 1: thought about them ahead of time, but you're also not 669 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 1: feeling like you have to fill every potential you know, 670 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: second of the theoretical work day. If you're able to 671 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 1: kind of check off the things that you've decided are important, 672 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: then you're done. My other thought is that if I 673 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: were in this situation, I think what I would do 674 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: is I would start doing things like I'd still work 675 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: a full day, but I would check off things for 676 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: myself during that day so that I sort of carved 677 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: out a little bit of extra time, meaning like I 678 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: might do a workout at lunch break, and you know what, 679 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: maybe the break will take seventy two minutes instead of 680 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,919 Speaker 1: the forty five that you're officially allotted. But who cares. 681 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 1: If you checked up all the boxes and you're doing 682 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,240 Speaker 1: all the things that are important, then you met your goals, 683 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 1: and that will allow you to kind of address your 684 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: upholder tendencies in two realms, completing some tasks that you 685 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,479 Speaker 1: want to do for yourself and also getting what really 686 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: truly needs to be done for work done. I really 687 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: like that. I love those answers to yeah, set the 688 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 1: daily or weekly or monthly goals, and then when you're 689 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: done with them, you're done, and so be move yourself 690 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: away from this sort of idea of time obligation. I 691 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: think it also might help to get a good sense 692 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: of what your colleagues are doing. Because one of the 693 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: ways that you know this oblige your upholder tendency comes 694 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,280 Speaker 1: in is we think that there's some ideal we're comparing 695 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: ourselves to, but none of our colleagues are reaching that 696 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: ideal either. And I have seen this on time logs. 697 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 1: You know that colleagues are working wildly different numbers of 698 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: hours or getting various different things done. And one of 699 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 1: the issues of being a remote employee is that you 700 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 1: don't see that. And so if you're the sort of 701 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: person who goofs off all the time, well you there's 702 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: no accountability and that's not good for the people who 703 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 1: employing you. But if you're the sort of like person 704 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 1: who does cross every tee, you can wind up working 705 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,439 Speaker 1: a lot more than other people and there's no check 706 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,320 Speaker 1: on it, to the point where I you know, I 707 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 1: have had people who have kept time logs for me 708 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: who are working from home and have that kind of personality, 709 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: like they hire a dog walker to come to their 710 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,439 Speaker 1: house because they don't feel they can even get away 711 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,399 Speaker 1: from their desk for like ten minutes to take their 712 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: dog outside. And I'm like, well, that's kind of ridiculous, 713 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: Like I don't think there is. Plus, you'd think they 714 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,919 Speaker 1: could maybe get some creative brainstorming done on the walk, 715 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: So yeah, want to walk with the dog. You know, 716 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: if you're working from home, this is one of the 717 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: upsides and you should probably sees it. And everyone takes breaks, 718 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 1: you know, it's just whether they're conscious or not, and 719 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 1: so consciously, you know, taking the dog outside might be 720 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:54,280 Speaker 1: better than you know, swurfing Twitter because your mind is fragged. Yeah, 721 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: So I mean trying to get a better sense of 722 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: what your colleagues are doing with their time, and you know, 723 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 1: short of having everyone keep time logs may not be 724 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 1: a good way to do this, but you can ask 725 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: questions and you know, get a sense of, like, you know, 726 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:05,880 Speaker 1: what kind of breaks people are taking during the day 727 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 1: or what hours they are on and what they are 728 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: getting done. Do a little bit of that sort of research, 729 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: and you probably are comparing quite favorably. So maybe you 730 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 1: can just sort of dial it back to more like 731 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: what your colleagues are doing. Especially if you don't have 732 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,959 Speaker 1: any particular ambitions to advance. Then you know, there's really 733 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 1: no point of being the star, except if you personally 734 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 1: want to. But it sounds like she doesn't, so that's 735 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: that's a different matter. Awesome. Well, thank you all for listening. 736 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: This has been an interesting piece together episode, but we 737 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 1: hope all we made all the pieces fit in the end. Yes, exactly. 738 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Best of Both Worlds and we'll 739 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:43,840 Speaker 1: be back with more next week on making work in 740 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:49,799 Speaker 1: life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find me 741 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 1: Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the Underscore 742 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 1: Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me Laura at 743 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 1: Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the Best of 744 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 1: Both Worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for more 745 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: on making work and life work together.