WEBVTT - From Antarctica to Mars: Surviving the Isolation 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:04.680 Really now, really. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:11.280 Really now, really hello, and welcome to really know Really 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:14.520 Jason Alexander and Peter Tilden, who remind you that subscribing 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:17.840 to our show means you are never ever truly alone. 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.720 But speaking of being truly alone, NASA plans to send 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:25.239 humans on a scientific round trip to Mars, potentially as 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:29.120 early as twenty thirty five. Beyond the technical challenges, the 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:31.880 big question is whether human beings would be capable of 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:36.160 dealing with the long period of isolation and loneliness necessary 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:41.279 to make the journey. Anxiety, depression, cognitive decline, emotional dysregulation, 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.839 weakened immune system, and even hallucinations and delusions are just 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:48.519 some of the effects of isolation, none of which are 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:51.760 exactly ideal when sending people to a distant planet with 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:55.480 sketchy odds of a successful return, and that's why scientists 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:59.320 have begun researching isolation in some of the most remote places. 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:03.280 Honor Doctor Beth Gely is not only one of those scientists, 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:06.840 she's also a research guinea pig. She studies the effects 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:10.920 of extreme isolation in Antarctica at the Space Flight Research 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:15.840 Center Concordia, otherwise known as White Mars. We spoke with 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:18.720 doctor Heely about which human traits are best suited for 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:22.000 handling isolation, how she has personally dealt with it, and 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:24.760 how befriending of volleyball like Tom Hanks did in the 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:29.679 movie Castaway, is an actual phenomenon. Really, no, really, And 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.640 now here are two guys whose friendship I value almost 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.280 as much as my volleyball, Jason and Peter. 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:37.600 Let me ask you a question. 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:43.080 Now, this is we're gonna we're gonna talk about isolation today. 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:48.160 And here's so, this is the one that I asked 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:49.880 you about. I had read a thing about you know, 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.960 they're talking about isolation on the long space flight to Mars? 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.080 Can we survive it? And then you know, and then 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:57.760 not only is it the flight, but then you're on 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:04.080 an uninhabited Atlanta in another world. I still, to this day, 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:08.480 I have trouble spending long periods of time alone. I'm 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:12.800 not good alone. I thrive on social interactions. Yeah, and 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:15.040 it doesn't. And honestly, I was finding COVID. I turned 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:17.119 to my wife after three months of basically just being 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:18.919 with her, and I go, this is good. I'm happy. 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:21.840 I'm very happy with you. You're a great company. But alone 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:25.359 would be challenging for me. Are you good alone? 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:27.519 I'm really good alone? Are you really I am really 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:32.360 good alone? I don't have any trouble occupying myself. You 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:34.960 know what like the fun of this show for me, 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.640 Believe or Not is researching and going down rabbit holes 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:41.200 to find it, because every question when you research something 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:43.200 leads to another question. I did that and talk greater fears. 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:45.760 I love I talk? Were you in talk right now? 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:47.680 I love? How long were you in talk right now? 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:49.600 It's about thirty years? 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.200 When people say you're kind, but I just well you 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:54.359 you got to me about how I say, can I 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:55.120 ask you a question? 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:57.840 I'm just saying, how many times do I have to 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:00.000 hear it when it right? So they can I ask 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.200 your question? How long will you talk right? I'm sorry 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:03.960 to interrupt. 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:08.400 I want to answer until I interrupted you in talk 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:08.760 right now? 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:11.160 You go down here and you go isolation, and then 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:14.840 you find out what kind of personality does well in isolation, 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:19.320 whether personality rates because our guests has gone to numerous 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:23.440 places that are isolated. She's a research scientist to specialize 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.680 in this. I get it, But what's your brain that 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:28.440 you go? This is what I want to do and 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:33.000 I constantly want to go to these places which are challenging. Isolated, 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.840 it's dark for three months, there's no no day, it's 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:40.320 it's all right. And the challenge is that I don't 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:42.160 want challenges. I don't even want to go camp. We 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:43.960 used to camp when we were kids. If I can't 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:47.080 plug in a hair dryer and a mini fridge and 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:49.480 order something for take, you know, I'm not going. 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:52.440 It's the longest. What's the longest you ever been all alone? 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:58.400 Really alone? Intensive care? But people are around. God, I 0:03:58.440 --> 0:03:59.960 don't know. I don't know how long I've been around 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.480 when people in vacation. I'm home alone, but there's people outside, 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:05.840 there's somebody delivering mail. You're never really I've never been 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:07.880 in isolation. Yeah, I would say. 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:09.920 You know, the longest is when my parents went away 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:11.640 the first time, left me alone in the house for 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:15.440 a week and I was sixteen, I think fifteen or sixteen, 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:18.360 and I did something stupid, you know what I did. 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.440 There's no way to start isolation. Friday. 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:23.359 They left on Friday morning, so I go to school, 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:25.839 I come back in the world is mine. It's my house, 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:28.040 my house. Friday night, I stay up really late and 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:31.000 I watched the original. I'd never seen the original Night 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:35.040 of the Living Dead. Oh a choice, and I'm I'm petrified. 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:37.159 Bad choice. And I go up to the bedroom and 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:40.839 as I'm getting ready for bed, there's something in the basement. 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:44.680 There's noises coming out of the basement. And don't I 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:46.080 don't know what the hell it is. I don't know 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:48.640 what it is? And what do you do? 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:49.560 What are you doing? Those things? 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.120 Every time we see people in horror films going going 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.120 to the thing, go you idiot, you idiot? Here I am, 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.080 so I grab a kitchen knife and I grab something 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:01.160 else and I'm now standing outside the basement door, listening, 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:04.080 and there is something in my basement. There is someone 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.440 down there. And I don't know where this came from. 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:10.200 The adrenaline and I throw open the door and I 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.160 flick on the light night and I yell out. 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:13.120 Something like I'll kill you. 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:16.000 I've been trying to think that I would scare the 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:20.320 psychomaniac that's down there. A squirrel ran across the floor. 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:23.320 I had a heart attack and died. This is not 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.919 me anymore. I died at age sixteen. Squirrel outside the 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:30.560 basement door. And by the way, I was paralyzed for 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:33.159 the weekend. I couldn't go to the to the bottom 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:35.920 floor of the house, didn't know what to do. Stay 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:40.400 stay upstairs. And somehow this rabbit squirrel was going to 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:43.120 chew through the basement door, find me and attack me 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:46.080 for calling him names. So all right, so today we're 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:50.599 talking about isolation. Let's introduce our guest, Beth Heally, doctor Bethiell, 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.800 doctor Beth Heale, excuse me, an emergency medicine doctor who's 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:56.839 worked for several years in the NHS and a variety 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:00.880 of international settings. She is worked all over the world 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.200 in a number of extreme and remote environments. 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:05.960 Valdbard, I didn't even know that was. I looked that 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:07.280 up to see if it was a joke, and they 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:07.880 just screwed that in. 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:11.440 A place Svalbard, Siberia, Greenland, Antarctica of the North Pole. 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.800 She's a research MD for the European Space Agency. She 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:21.039 has wintered in Antarctica at the Spaceflight Analog Concordia, otherwise 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:21.960 known as White Mars. 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:24.480 YEA, they recreate Mars. That's the closest thing. That's what 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:27.479 they send people to see if they can hack it. Yeah, 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:27.800 or Mar. 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:31.159 She has researched the effects of isolation and extreme environment 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:35.320 on the psychology and physiology of her cruise. And she's 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:37.360 so she's been there, She's been in the true does it? 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:39.400 She puts herself through this voluntary. 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.240 And so hopefully she'll join us because I know she 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:43.800 likes to be alone. 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:45.400 Yeah, they're larning her out with the pieces. They got 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:48.960 someone on a screen now trying to get So let's 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:51.440 say hello to doctor Beth Heally. So the big question 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.120 first say hello to a person. Oh, doctor Healely, how 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:58.600 are you great to see you? So Jason talked about her. 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:00.159 I have to teach him man, he's not a on 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:04.480 people a lot, doctor Hilling. I like isolation, but I wondered, 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:08.080 if we are built a man has evolved over the 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:10.000 thousand years to be who we are and live the 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:13.040 way we are and adapt to our surroundings. We're asking 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:15.320 man not to make a giant leap because we're going 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:17.800 to send you to another environment. And I understand it 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:19.960 would be like a three year trip back and forth. 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:24.120 Whatever are we capable from what you know in studying 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:27.800 isolation and living in isolation to do that? Is that realistic? 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:29.679 Or do you sit back going Oh are these. 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.160 Yeah, I mean it's it's a really interesting question because, 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:39.680 of course, as you say, we are developing the technology 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.600 required to take us on these longer duration missions. But 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:44.880 I really do think the biggest challenge is going to 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.080 be the human side. That's really what we were studying 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:51.080 in Antarctica Concordia Station where I was working, so I 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.720 was working for European Space Agency, and what we were 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:58.280 doing there is really researching the effects of isolation as 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:01.640 an analog for these long durations faceplight missions that it 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:03.800 is really going to be a huge challenge to get 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:07.520 us there safely, with good mental health and as a 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:08.720 web forming team. 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:10.840 You get that smirk as you're saying that, by the way, 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.960 it means challenging. Did you see the wink on challenging 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:16.280 because she's well, you've I should say, and I know 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:19.200 you want to. You've done this repeatedly at different places 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:21.880 where you put yourself in isolation and also where the 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:24.320 environment's dark all day, where it's months and months of 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:25.200 no daylight. 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:28.920 But just so just so people listening have context, how 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:32.439 when you go to Concordia, which is in Antarctica, is. 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:34.040 That correct exactly? 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:40.319 Yeah, it's on the Jame Charlie Plateau. It's closest neighbors 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:42.240 like Busto Conciple. 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:46.800 Right, Okay, And when when you're there and you're embedded 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:50.120 with these research teams, how long a period of time 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:52.640 are you are you all basically in that kind of 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:54.800 isolation when you're doing a research study. 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.600 So I went to Antarctica and Concordia for fourteen months 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:02.320 when I was there, and then the isolation period of 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:04.760 that is like a nine month period where you're over 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:07.199 wentering and so that's where you've got. So we were 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.520 a crew of thirteen people for those nine months, and 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:13.480 we were considered completely inaccessible for that period even in 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:16.719 case of emergency. And we also, as you mentioned, had 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:19.320 like long periods of long polar night, so we went 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:21.800 for one hundred and five days without any sunlight at all. 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:24.800 Wow. So does that. 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.720 I just want to equate that to the intended Mars mission. 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.640 Are they talking about sending that many people in one mission? 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.800 Or is that considered a large group for a space mission? 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.400 Yeah, so that's sort of larger groups than what's anticipated 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:45.800 for a Mars mission, although obviously if then you start 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.840 to get colonies, for example, on the lunar plant, lunar 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.600 surface or the Martian missions, that it could end up 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:54.600 being a bit longer, like realistically for the spaceship to 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:57.480 get two Mars, that's a higher number than what we expect. 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:01.319 The thing is, they're not just relying on one analog 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:05.160 program alone. So Concord is specifically looking at long duration spaceflight, 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:07.640 but it's also looking at it in the context of 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:11.200 a real mission in so much just to say that 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:15.880 the crew in Antarctica are completely isolated and really extreme conditions, 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:19.319 then so it's considered safer to have that number of 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:22.880 people on that specific environment platform. So that's why we 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:26.600 have thirteen, not because it necessarily reflects what we would 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:29.319 be doing for longeration missions, but we also do other 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:34.120 analog platforms which more accurately look at the sort of 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:36.760 size of the crew. So for example, Males five hundred 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:38.800 would be a good example of that. Whether they had 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:44.200 a six person crew on a simulated Martian mission, but 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:46.560 that was done in a much more controlled environment, so 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.760 it's done in like a Russian car park essentially, so 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.040 they sort of built the space ship, had a crew 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:55.600 of six people, did a fully like simulated mass mission, 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:59.160 and they had a lot more control over simulating, for example, 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:04.000 and accidents happening there, being like emergencies for the crew 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.360 which they had to deal with, and having that kind 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:08.120 of like high fidelity simulation. 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:12.199 But what it missed is what Concordia can actually offer, 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:12.760 which is. 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:17.200 That real life danger of being in an isolated and 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.520 remote environment. And so I think actually, personally, I would 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:22.920 have found it much harder to have gone on the 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:26.000 Mass five hundred mission, which is the car Park one, 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:29.040 because I think for me, like a lot of the 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:32.920 stress that I had was actually during the summer time 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:35.120 in Antarctica, where I still had the choice to leave, 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.559 and it's actually really stressful kind of period because at 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:40.800 that point you still have that choice, and so I 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:42.760 spent a lot of that time thinking, you know, is 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:45.079 it a good decision to stay here, What's going to happen? 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:47.440 Like should I go on the next plane home and 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:50.640 actually just quit? Whereas actually it was kind of almost 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:52.880 like a relief when the last plane left and you 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:56.679 suddenly were like, Okay, I'm doing this, and your mind 0:11:56.720 --> 0:12:00.360 actually like psychologically switches to different mode because you know 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.320 that you can't even so actually the worries and sort 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:08.400 of anxieties, you have a different and so I think 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:10.320 if I've been in that other simulated mission, that the 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:13.640 psychological challenges are actually quite different. So I think it's 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:15.880 really important to have all these different types of animals 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.560 looking at lots of different aspects get you much like 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:19.760 for a bigger picture. 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:21.480 So we're going to dig into this, but I just 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:23.800 want to jump to the big picture question in your 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.440 professional opinion, are. 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:28.080 They going to be able to pull this off? Or 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:29.160 is this is. 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:31.880 This a hope to Christ kind of thing I can do? 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.240 You think, based on what you've seen in experience, that 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:39.720 there are enough people who could actually endure this kind 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:44.040 of isolation and this kind of stress successfully and accomplish 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:45.640 the intended Mars mission. 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:48.520 So I think we'll do it, but I'm not sure 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:51.079 if you're ready yet. I think that's kind of how 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:53.640 I feel. I think like a lot of these programs 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:56.360 are doing really valuable research and like looking at the 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:58.320 challenges that we're going to face and trying to put 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:03.080 in character measures to try and help prevent those challenges 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:06.520 that we've researched that the team are likely to experience. 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:08.800 But I think that there still needs a lot of 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:13.280 research in this area to help optimize the team most effectively, 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:17.000 like in terms of team selection, preparing the team, making 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.240 sure that you have the right composition of team and 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:21.960 that you're preparing them well in terms of the appropriate 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:24.360 counter measures in place, and also monitoring of the team 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.600 performance during that mission to make sure that it's successful. 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:30.080 I think, I think it's wrong to think that we 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:33.559 can just you know, just pop a crew on a 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:35.880 Mars mission, like all of this training. But I think 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:38.320 that there is a lot of this research taking place, 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.480 like the Concordia platform, like last five hundred, like lots 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:44.800 of other research projects that are going on, and I 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:46.679 think that these are really valuable, and I think that 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.480 we really have to like continue to do that to 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:51.960 make sure that we're ready when the technology arrives, to 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:53.800 make sure that we can safety send a team. 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.840 So doctor Hilly, what I got to know, A who 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.079 are you that you love going to these places? What 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:03.160 personality you And as part of that, you've got to 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.440 pick the right personality traits for these people who are going. 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:07.079 I mean, you're going to make sure that they can 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:09.600 live in that environment. And are the tests you get 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.760 people to say this guy is going to go he's 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.920 gonna hit crazy about day thirteen because looking at us, 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:19.360 I'm guessing day three Are you and I going together? 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:24.520 Because it's day one? Who goes in first, who goes 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:27.040 in second? Were the engines are firing? Wait a minute, 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:30.920 Peter's here. Peter's so yeah, if you can wrap that 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.640 all into one, your personality, the personality traits of the 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:35.600 people going, and how they test that. So you know, 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:38.960 louis going crazy J nine here, I'm not going with him. 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:40.800 How do you figure that out? 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.040 But that's it, I mean, and it's not only just 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:45.840 is that person okay? But are they in the right team? 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:46.720 Yeah? 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:47.200 As well? 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:49.840 You know, it's like so you could have six of 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.200 the right people, but just not the right composition and 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.480 like having clashing perfities. And you know, like when we 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.080 went on to Concordia, like in fact that our whole 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:00.080 crew didn't even make it to Concordia because you we 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.360 were like de selected at the training stages. 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:04.360 So we did lots of training before we went down there. 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.560 We had like TESTA and people were sort of de 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:09.560 selected before you even made it. And I think that 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.280 was really important for our crew. And it's going to 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.640 have to obviously be even more strict to go on 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:20.960 these longer duration missions. Yeah, so I mean it's interesting 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:24.240 as well about like who is the good person? You know, 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.120 So in some ways you want sociable people because they're 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:28.720 going to be able to get on with each other, 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:31.120 because you know, you talk about isolation, and while you 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:35.360 are isolated, you're also super in close proximity with your 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:37.560 crew as well. So it's kind of this weird thing 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:40.200 where you need to be sociable but not too sociable 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.800 that you're going to be able to get on well 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:45.600 with the team, but then you're also not going to 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:49.000 miss too much having that social interaction back at home. 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:50.920 And so there's lots of different factors. 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:54.720 And then it's also about understanding your crew as well, 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:57.400 and so we did lots of training at the European 0:15:57.480 --> 0:15:59.920 National Center before we went, which is sort of human 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.960 behavior performance training, and a lot of that was focused 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:06.520 on really understanding and how your crew react in different 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:10.200 situations and how you react in different situations. And from 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.320 having that better understanding and knowledge of how people reacting 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:17.040 these stressful situations, you're able to kind of predict how 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.120 people are feeling before they might even realize it themselves. 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:22.080 So just to give you an idea, you know, when 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:25.120 I'm super stressed, I go really quiet. That's how I react. 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:26.920 And so if people notice in the crew that have 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:29.840 gone really quiet, they might pick up on the fact 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:34.600 that I'm not feeling good or like that, that something's 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:36.960 up with me before I might even notice myself. And 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:39.400 whereas other people, you know, get much more light and 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:42.560 much stress in when they're upset as well. I mean, 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:46.720 that's a very basic thing. And then also obviously on 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.400 top of that, you've got sort of cultural understanding as well, 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:52.480 because it's probably quite likely that a mission is going 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.240 to be a multicultural mission, and then also on top 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.520 of that sort of genders how that composition is going 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.640 to be and nationality and the cultural differences that come 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:03.760 with that as well, or going into malting pot, and 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.359 so it's hard to predict at this stage what and 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:07.960 who that mission is going to be. I mean, is 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:10.119 it going to be a commercial mission, is it going 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:11.919 to be a governmental mission? Is going to be a 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:15.120 mix of everything that we and which nationality we don't 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:17.960 really know at this point, but it's exciting. 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:17.920 To think that. 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.200 So what I want to follow up on when Peter 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:23.000 asked you, though, what is it as far as you 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:27.880 can assess, what is it about your emotional or character 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:32.600 makeup that has made this doable for you? I mean, 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.040 I understand that you're interested in the study, but you 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:37.040 have to be in it in order to do it. 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.240 So how did you know that you would be able to. 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:40.919 Function like this? 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:42.960 It's a funny question that I get a lot, and 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.800 it's not that I had ever really honestly plan to 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:49.159 go and do it. I guess for me, like, so, 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:52.199 my background is I love skating, and so that had 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:54.399 taken to me to like lots of sort of extreme 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:56.680 remote places like for example, I've worked a lot in 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.280 Greenland already, I've been up to the North Pole, I've 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:02.000 done lots of of extreme environments stuff. 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:04.320 And that really stems from a real interest in. 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:08.520 How our bodies perform in these kind of extreme environments 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.919 and also like high performing teams, sports teams, that kind 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:14.040 of thing, and that's really what got me interested in 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.600 the project. And yeah, I guess when I first first 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.640 waked to Easter about the project for European Space Agency, 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:21.919 they were like, oh, yeah, it's going to be like 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:24.199 you know, like nine months maybe ten months and then 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:27.520 suddenly you're there for fourteen months. And I guess, like 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:30.399 for me, like personally, like I really like sort of 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:35.200 new experiences. I've been really interested in antartica and kind 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:37.720 of my whole life really and but the real thing 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:39.959 that sort of pinched it for me is that I 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:44.040 feel like, really passionate about exploration, and I really think 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:47.200 that sort of spaceflight is the next frontier of exploration, 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:50.879 and I think that as researchers we can well, you know, 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:54.160 while I'm I'm very unlikely to be on the Mars 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:56.800 mission myself, I think that, you know, when we do 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:00.720 step foot on Mars, I feel that by having anticipated 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:03.840 in the research and helping to sort of further our 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.880 knowledge on this subject, it really feels that you can 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:08.760 sort of be part of that. And for me, that's 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:11.119 really exciting and I want. That's what really sort of 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:12.919 matanated me to go down into it. 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:15.439 So I'll ask this of you, but I guess you 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:18.600 can extrapolate it into people who participate in this. So 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:21.160 you said, oh, I thought it'd begon eight nine months, 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:22.560 and it turn I'd be fourteen months. 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:24.280 What happens to all your. 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:28.560 Relationships, your friendships your parents, your siblings, your significant others 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:29.640 or whatever. 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:31.359 I mean, if you're in isolation, are. 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:34.359 You allowed to be in contact with them at all? 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:35.119 Or you? 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:36.919